[
  {
    "id": 1,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "In the development of the project, this meeting was at the basis where a prototype of the product had been designed and it mainly focused on discussion about the cost and pricing of the product based on the material it used and the profit they wanted to obtain through this product. It turned out that the cost was very reasonable and the price was also very attractive. Then, the team evaluated the product by scoring according to criteria based on the user's requirements and marketing trends. The meeting went very well and every team member agreed with each other on the evaluation results, which was promising to lead a success in this project.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Je croix que c'est dommage de le {disfmarker} it will be sad to destroy this prototype . It really looks like a banana .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} It is a banana .\nProject Manager: It is a banana . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It is the essence of bananas . I would be confused with this thing .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: S\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: How is everyone ?\nProject Manager: Hi .\nIndustrial Designer: Hi .\nProject Manager: So we are here for the detailed design meeting .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: we will uh {disfmarker} I will first present what we are going to do in this meeting . Then uh I've {disfmarker} I will also take notes during this meeting and I will send you uh a summary then as usual . We will then look at the evaluation criteria of the prototype presented by uh our two colleagues that make good work .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} And uh then we will see the financial aspects and the cost of the product . Then we will uh evaluate the product . And uh end with the conclusion of this project and see whether it fits with {disfmarker} it fulf if it fulfil the requirement or not . So\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: d let's start with the cost aspect so so I look at the aspect discussed last time , that is to say uh to have a standard battery , {vocalsound} to have a yellow banana shaped uh case with uh a rubber material around it\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: to be uh to feel spongy ,\nUser Interface: Like a banana .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} and uh also at the different aspect like having a wheel etcetera .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And the cost ended to be ten point seven Euros . So which is uh good , because we had a price gap of twelve point five Euros .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: So for the financial aspect it's okay , we can uh {disfmarker} we can continue with this product uh as if ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} and we are now going to see the project evaluation with uh our marketing expert .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Okay . So uh you can have my project in {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . You have a presentation ?\nMarketing: Uh yeah just a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Participant four , yes .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Four . Evaluation .\nProject Manager: Okay . Okay .\nMarketing: Okay . So you can go . We can go through .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: So I made an evaluation and the the evaluation criteria is made according to {vocalsound} the users' requirements and the market trends we talked about uh during the previous uh meetings . So you can go through and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: okay so uh we have uh six points . We we talked about before .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: So we we want to have a product fancy look and feel , technologically innovative , easy to use , fashion , {vocalsound} easy to find in a room , and robust ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: uh and uh uh I have a scale of uh seven points .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay . So I go through all the uh all the points here ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: and uh according to what you think about the this project you can uh mm make a one point , two point or seven point . Okay ?\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: And after we ha we have an an average , and uh we see .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: The {disfmarker} okay ? {vocalsound} Uh so uh fancy look and feel , what do you think ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . Maybe you can presen {vocalsound}\nMarketing: F between o one and seven .\nProject Manager: okay . Maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} hold it .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So I think it's uh very uh very nice . What do you think ?\nUser Interface: I give it a {disfmarker} I give it a five .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So it's between one and seven ? Seven is the highest uh ?\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Seven is the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I will give a six .\nIndustrial Designer: I will give a a five .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And you ?\nMarketing: {gap} sorry .\nUser Interface: Do you vote uh Christine ?\nMarketing: {gap} eh ?\nUser Interface: Do you also vote ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} No , I just want to see something {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Maybe we all have to agree on a common {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well , we can {gap} very easily {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh I think uh {gap} {vocalsound} and need to {gap} as well {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: No problem . So\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Need to {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: this is your {disfmarker}\nMarketing: uh I don't know if you {disfmarker} we ha we have to put uh one uh f If it's better or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: One is most {gap} .\n",
      "User Interface: I {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh-uh .\nProject Manager: Well , we can choose what we want .\nMarketing: Um . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , let's say that seven is the best .\nMarketing: Or maybe we can say s seven is the best mm {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Okay . So so do note the grade we have five , six for me ,\nIndustrial Designer: Five .\nProject Manager: five . And what what's your choice ?\nMarketing: Oh sorry . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: How much would you give on the fancy aspect , on the fashionable aspect ?\n",
      "Marketing: Six {disfmarker} Uh s you can {disfmarker} how much what ?\nProject Manager: How much would you {disfmarker} you don't answer to this uh questionnaire ?\nMarketing: Oh yes I mm I dunno mm , I think six , it's a good uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: So it will have five point five average .\nProject Manager: Five point five average .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: Wa can {gap} . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Well , does it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I sorry .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay . So after , the technological aspect ?\nProject Manager: Okay , techne technological aspect .\nMarketing: So we we said uh we have uh a new technological uh thing with a wheel .\nProject Manager: Yeah , we have the wheel . We also have the rubber material ,\nMarketing: Uh .\nProject Manager: which make it uh like new also . I think I would give a five .\nUser Interface: It's {gap} four .\nProject Manager: Four ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: A four also , because , except for the wheel , we don't have so much innovation .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: The rubber is {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh a four . I I {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: D are we including the voice {disfmarker} are you glu are we including the voice in the end or not ? Huh ?\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: No . Okay .\nProject Manager: So\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: what's your uh grade ?\nMarketing: Four .\nProject Manager: Four ? So we have four , four f and five ?\n",
      "Marketing: We can put four ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah , four . Four , yeah , let's put four .\nUser Interface: For twenty five .\nMarketing: Everyone is okay or {disfmarker} four poin Four .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Doesn't it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Very easy to use . Do you think it's easy to use ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , I think so . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: I give a seven , I think .\nIndustrial Designer: Six .\n",
      "Project Manager: I would give a {disfmarker} I would give a seven as well . It's very easy to use .\nIndustrial Designer: Six .\nMarketing: Mm , six for me also .\nProject Manager: So\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\nMarketing: Six point five . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: six point five .\nIndustrial Designer: Six six six point five .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Is it fashion ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Oh yeah ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: its its f its fruit fruit shape .\n",
      "Marketing: Seven ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I would say seven . And is very very nice design .\nMarketing: Yeah it's fashion , because it's a fruit ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , we can we can put a seven here .\nMarketing: and we say that the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , seven .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: yeah , seven .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Seven , okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Well , we hope .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Easy to find .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh easy to find in a room ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I lost my banana . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I think you can't miss it .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I think it's cool . I think we can put a six here .\nMarketing: We have the lightning , or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , we have {vocalsound} the {vocalsound}\nMarketing: The lighting .\n",
      "Project Manager: we don't sesh especially have the lightning\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} So you'll make the material transparent\nProject Manager: but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so that it uh lights up completely , or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So it's yellow . It's okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . {gap}\nProject Manager: I think it's very easy to {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Seven ?\nProject Manager: I would say seven . It's hard to miss it .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Six . Yeah , okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Is it {disfmarker} is it robust ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , it's rubber , made of rubber ,\nIndustrial Designer: Uh f yeah , it's ru it's rubber .\nProject Manager: I think it's m it's uh more rubber than uh other remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah the only problem there might be {disfmarker} which {gap} know , i if it's very sensitive ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: they will ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: I don't know {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But it is uh {disfmarker} it is surrounded by rubber material .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , okay .\nProject Manager: So maybe we can put a six .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Everybody is okay , six .\nIndustrial Designer: Six or five . Five {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Six is okay ?\nUser Interface: Six , yeah , for me .\nIndustrial Designer: Six .\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: S now {vocalsound} um so .\nProject Manager: Tadada . We have to sum up everything .\nUser Interface: Twenty .\nMarketing: Thirteen uh , twenty , twenty six point five , uh seven , thirty two , thirty six {gap} .\nUser Interface: Thirty . Thir\nMarketing: That's that's okay ? Six .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Six is a good {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Good . Uh if we say that seven it's uh it's the better ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , the be .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , the top {disfmarker}\nMarketing: and when uh s six sit six are good {disfmarker} it's a good uh p product , I think .\nProject Manager: Okay , so six is a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm . So will become eight soon ?\nProject Manager: So it's a good evaluation , I think . It's very promising .\nUser Interface: Yeah , well it's a bit biased . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Huh .\nMarketing: We have a good price and uh {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So this prototype is quite nice . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Good .\nUser Interface: Because I saw uh some phones that were banana shaped , uh wireless phones not mobile ones , wireless for the house ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay .\nUser Interface: uh quite big also ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and they were selling {gap} something like a hundred Euros , two hundred Euros .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Just a {vocalsound} just a phone , wireless .\n",
      "Project Manager: So having this at twenty five Euros is uh quite attractive , I think .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: I think the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But almo also the complexity between a phone and a remote control is not {disfmarker} cannot compare .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: it's much more complex , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So , I think , we can summarise . So we have seen the prototype . It's very nice according to the work of our two designer .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: The the the financial aspect were okay . We we have the cost below uh our threshold and so we could sell at twenty five Euros and make i make profit . The the evaluation give satisfying result as well . So I think we can move to the last part of the meeting .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So the cost is in the budget , the evaluation is okay , so I th I think we can now uh open champagne and make a huge party .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Start to eat banana . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: I don't know if it's provided by uh by the meeting staff .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so congratulation . {vocalsound} Nice product .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Congratulations to the team . Uh very well , we worked together fantastically .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I think it was a good collaboration uh . Aspect .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} So what does the management say ?\nProject Manager: Sorry ?\nUser Interface: What does the management say ?\nProject Manager: I think we will have um much bigger project next time and a much bigger salary as well .\nUser Interface: Ah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: All it depends on who watch this meeting .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 3725,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 2,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting began with the Project Manager announcing the task and the agenda. The group should design an original, trendy, and user-friendly remote control through the following meetings. First of all, they did a brief equipment testing on their laptops, the pens, and the whiteboard to ensure they would work. Then getting to the main point of this meeting, the group talked about the budget and reached the agreement that it had to be a universal remote control with such a high price. The group also discussed the functions, the shape and other external design of the remote design, as well as drawing them down as a conceptual draft.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: Two .\nProject Manager: Hello . Hello .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Good morning .\nMarketing: Hello . Ah .\nProject Manager: You have to put it exactly on the on the {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: Plate ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Good morning .\nIndustrial Designer: Good morning .\nProject Manager: I took your mouse .\nIndustrial Designer: Should I bring my uh pen too ?\nProject Manager: Yeah just {disfmarker} yeah , no ,\nIndustrial Designer: Or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: that's for me , I just have to make some notes . I got my uh mouse .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: Uh I also forgot my mouse ,\nUser Interface: Mouse .\nProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound} yeah .\nMarketing: but I don't need my mouse , I think .\nIndustrial Designer: I do .\nUser Interface: Come on . There we are .\nIndustrial Designer: My laptop is crashing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap}\nMarketing: Damn computers . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Cr\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Help help help .\nUser Interface: Let's just check one more time . Mm .\nMarketing: Can you hear me ? Hello ?\nProject Manager: Uh actually my laptop doesn't work ,\nMarketing: Test .\nProject Manager: {gap} switch it on again .\nMarketing: I dunno .\nProject Manager: Oh no .\nMarketing: Check . Okay . I think it works .\nIndustrial Designer: Test test . Yes , it's working .\nProject Manager: So you all read what we are going to do or not ?\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: We're gonna make a remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah , that's right .\nIndustrial Designer: I think my laptop is a bit\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: etchy .\nProject Manager: I just made a a simple uh presentation . So you {gap} put some things in it .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . How does this work ? I dunno . {gap}\nUser Interface: One uh {disfmarker} most to the right .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh p\nUser Interface: Yes that one .\nProject Manager: This one ?\nUser Interface: Yes .\n",
      "Marketing: Press F_ eleven .\nProject Manager: Ah cool . Okay . So\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: that's my name , {gap} . Uh we're going to make uh a remote control , you already know that . Just have a look , are we going to {disfmarker} uh this agenda of our meeting . You know , this is about twenty five minutes , this meeting . So um the {gap} thing we have to know is you already know what we're going to do , you also read what this the things {disfmarker} or , not yet ,\nUser Interface: Yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: okay . So um , yeah , it has to be original , trendy , user-friendly {gap} that's what we're going to design . Uh first we have uh uh three steps of uh making the the remote control . Fir the first thing is th the functional design , that's very important . We have to look what the needs are , the effects of the functional design , and and how the mm the the remote control works , so that's where we're going to look in the functional design , it's for the f next meeting . The the second thing is the conceptual design , that's what it {disfmarker} that's uh the spe the specifications of the components and the properties and the specifications of the user interface . And we have to look what uh the market is doing for {disfmarker} what kind of uh remote controls are in the market . And the third thing is uh the detailed design um and that's exa yeah , you know what it is , it's exactly how it looks and whatever . {vocalsound} Okay so {disfmarker} uh no , this is a {disfmarker} these are two smartboards , with the uh f uh s an introduction of that one . And you already saw {disfmarker} you know all that that you here can put uh things in the the red project uh map .\n",
      "Marketing: Folder ,\nProject Manager: Folder , okay .\nMarketing: yes .\nProject Manager: So no okay {gap} have a look at that one . Okay . So uh what we're going to do first is um so you can read . {vocalsound} You have to uh draw uh a favourite animal on the whiteboard\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: and um and say why it's your favourite animal . So and you have {disfmarker} this is just to try it out and we have to uh use a different pen colours and different thickness of the pen . So okay , so first have to show you , maybe you can come here to have a look how it works . Yes ?\nMarketing: Ah I can see it now .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: This a new page , it's okay . Use pen format . and a different colour can use here {gap} no I just take the pink . You take {disfmarker} oh there's no pink , okay , oh just purple , okay .\nUser Interface: Purple .\n",
      "Project Manager: No blue . And uh line width {vocalsound} ten . Okay uh just take {disfmarker} what I'm going to draw is an elephant . Just draw slowly , because otherwise it won't work . It's a very nice elephant , you can see . I dunno what it looks {disfmarker} but it doesn't matter . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Looks very nice .\nProject Manager: I just h\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Something like this ? Oh no {gap}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It look like a dinosaurs . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} A pink elephant .\nProject Manager: Because I like {disfmarker} uh okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Just takes so long , okay . Whatever , just . You erased this one . It's a bit slow you can see , this is a bit annoying .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , so just for you guys just one of you can draw a painting if you want . Just don't\nMarketing: Let me try one .\nProject Manager: um {disfmarker} yeah , just u use it like that , yeah . That's okay .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nMarketing: Mm . Okay and then uh what's the colour ? How do I do {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's in format . Yeah .\nMarketing: Ah . I'll take this one . Uh there has to be water ,\nProject Manager: Just {disfmarker}\nMarketing: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: No it has to be an animal , so if that's it's {disfmarker} it should be a shna snake or something .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah , but it's an animal it's an animal that lives in the water .\nProject Manager: Okay . Okay okay . Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} The water is important . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: So I first uh draw the water .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh . Okay , and now I make the animal . It's a fish .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wow .\nProject Manager: cool .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . So . {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: This is a worm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Hmm yeah , that's nice .\nMarketing: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wow .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay , who next ? Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh do you have to write down why {disfmarker} uh that doesn't matter , just {disfmarker} it's to get used to the whiteboard , but it's okay .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Just make a new blank new blank page .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Well Paul ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . Like this ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , not too far to the to the t pen top .\nUser Interface: Okay . Um\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: let's make it um a dog . Ooh .\n",
      "Project Manager: Maybe you should hold your pen a bit more to the back , so that {disfmarker} no , to the {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: {gap} Ah okay .\nMarketing: I think it's a pig .\nUser Interface: A pig ?\nProject Manager: No , it's a dog . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I can make {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or a dog .\nUser Interface: a dog .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: A sheep ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh we d only have twenty five minutes , so {gap} . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Take it easy .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: 'Kay , I make a cat of it .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I I was gonna make a cat too .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Use your fantasy . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh , not too quick .\n",
      "Project Manager: Just hold it more more to the back then you don't have {gap}\nUser Interface: No\nProject Manager: okay .\nUser Interface: I have it . I just draw too quick I think . Okay , that's it . More .\nProject Manager: No , that's okay , thank you . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's just to get used to it .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: I thought these pens would be just um {disfmarker} uh you write it down and you download it to Word , you already did it or no ? No , not yet , okay .\nMarketing: No .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , that's right ,\nProject Manager: But it's just {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: it {disfmarker} but you actually got to write on the paper .\nProject Manager: Sorry ?\nUser Interface: You really got to write on that paper .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I know , but I d I I thought it would be just in in in uh typed words in Word ,\nMarketing: Yeah yeah , it's a real pen .\nProject Manager: so that's not\nUser Interface: Yeah , but it's just a picture .\nProject Manager: just {disfmarker} it's just a picture . So {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Oh .\nProject Manager: it's not that cool as I th thought it would be .\nUser Interface: You really {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Y you can you can't edit in the {disfmarker} edit it in Word .\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: Oh , okay .\nUser Interface: It's a donkey .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I don't know , what time did we start this meeting , I'm not sure .\nUser Interface: Uh I think it was uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Half past .\nMarketing: Half past ten .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Brilliant .\nProject Manager: Okay , perfect .\nIndustrial Designer: Nice , eh ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yep .\nProject Manager: Yeah , thank you . Now we just have to save everything , so . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: this is definitely the best one .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nProject Manager: Okay , so uh what we know is that we have to sell this uh remote control for about twenty five Euros . Okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: Excuse me .\nProject Manager: that's {gap} . And uh we have to make a profit of fifty million Euros , so we have to uh use a big market in Europe . The production cost are about half the price of selling price ,\nUser Interface: Piece of cake .\nProject Manager: sorry .\nUser Interface: Uh easy .\n",
      "Project Manager: So can someone make a a calculation about how many we have to sell of these to make fifty million , I dunno . Uh so we're gonna have {gap} a little discussion about um what experience are with a remote control the {gap} and everything , so just have a look how it {disfmarker} we think about remote controls .\nMarketing: Yeah , my first question was does it have to be a {vocalsound} a universal remote control ?\nProject Manager: Oh yeah , that's a good question .\nMarketing: Because we sell it uh uh uh lonely from the t and not with the television , we sell it uh apart .\n",
      "Project Manager: I think it's {disfmarker} I'm not I'm not sure ,\nMarketing: So I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: it's not mm {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it probably would be universal .\nUser Interface: Universal .\nMarketing: Because {disfmarker} {gap}\nUser Interface: And only television ? Or more devices ?\nProject Manager: I don't think you can buy a a a universal uh remote control for twenty five Euros , so {disfmarker} not sure , but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm , maybe , I don't know .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , I know uh you can buy a re a universal uh control for uh only twenty uh Euros\nProject Manager: Okay , so we we just say we just say that's universal remote control . Okay , perfect .\nUser Interface: Ah okay .\nMarketing: Yeah , I think .\nIndustrial Designer: And uh also for the V_C_R_ and uh D_V_D_ player\nProject Manager: Yeah , everything\nIndustrial Designer: and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: just {disfmarker} so a lot of buttons {vocalsound} on the remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: okay . {vocalsound} Yeah , probably .\n",
      "User Interface: Not just a T_V_ .\nProject Manager: No , just everything .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: {gap} . so yeah ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: what what what's a remote control , it's just a black thing with some buttons on it , it's not {disfmarker} nothing very special , but um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well we can try to make it special .\nProject Manager: yeah , that's right .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: So do you have any ideas how it has to look for for usability or user {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Well I th I thought about um making it the same uh style as the television , {gap} {disfmarker} we don't have uh the same television uh all the time , so uh that's no matter . {vocalsound} Um if we uh control the V_C_R_ and the D_V_D_ player player with it uh it has to be clear , because uh kids and uh elderly are gonna use it , so uh it's not only for the uh technical persons . Um I think it must be a very good control , so you can uh uh uh act uh {vocalsound} use it from uh everywhere in your room , the the infrared uh thing must be from very good quality .\n",
      "Project Manager: Hmm yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's right . Should be a good point .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Nothing {gap} N\nIndustrial Designer: And how big should it be ?\nMarketing: No . Yeah .\nUser Interface: {gap} It shouldn't be too big ,\nMarketing: I dunno um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: but I don't think we can make it too small , 'cause it has to have a lot of functions , so .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: We can't make it smaller than the things we see now I think .\n",
      "Project Manager: Just big enough for the buttons we have , that's that's it .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Or we have to make something uh like uh mobile phones that you can uh fold it opem .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Maybe then you can make it s smaller and uniquer ,\nMarketing: Yes\nUser Interface: maybe more trendy .\nProject Manager: But you you you you think about uh uh one you can fold open .\nUser Interface: Fold open ,\nProject Manager: Okay ,\nUser Interface: where you can see uh more options . I think {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: yeah , that's cool . Maybe for the D_V_D_ pla player or something ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah\nMarketing: Ah\nIndustrial Designer: n\nMarketing: that's that's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: if you just {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , something uh on top , just dren general things like volume and T_V_ channels and inside things you don't use that often .\nMarketing: Ah right right .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , or you c\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: O or you could th think of an uh uh a small touch screen on the remote control .\nMarketing: Oh that's good , yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah b I wanted {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Why should you use a touchscreen on a remote control ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh maybe be uh it's it's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: There are buttons on it .\nUser Interface: No you can make an uh manual in it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , or um maybe to keep it uh easy and uh small .\nProject Manager: Okay . But it's not t t t too expensive to put a touchscreen on it .\nUser Interface: But that's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh like a a to have {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , but\nUser Interface: Yeah , I think it's much uh {disfmarker} too expensive .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , maybe it would .\nMarketing: Yeah but it's not reachable I think , touch screen .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nMarketing: And we have to care for uh the strength of the remote control ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: because uh uh remote controls are most uh things in the house that falls down on the ground and it get often uh broken .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So . And if you have a touch screen in it , it's definitely too too fragile uh fragile .\nUser Interface: Yeah , too fragile .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah and a lots uh uh lots of kids use it and touchscreen is not uh kids uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No . You can put games on your remote control . Whatever . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Kid-proof .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} And uh how about the batteries ?\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh should you put it in a recharger or a {disfmarker} just {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh maybe that's a good idea ,\n",
      "Marketing: Ma maybe a home station .\nProject Manager: just to put it on your television and just s recharge ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: you never have to use any batteries .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm yeah .\nUser Interface: Maybe that's a good idea , but yeah , we have to look at the price now I think .\nProject Manager: Yeah , how m how mu how how expensive uh is a normal recharger ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I dunno .\nUser Interface: Well uh how much is your uh standards uh mobile phone recharger ?\nProject Manager: I dunno .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , if you buy it uh separately from your phone it's probably expensive ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Ah yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: but I don't know what the project uh projection costs are for such a thing .\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: Maybe have {gap} uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh if you th look at the market , it's probably {disfmarker} it's still the best way just to put batteries in it , because maybe it's too expensive .\nUser Interface: Yeah , 'cause well {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , but a home station is uh a really good idea , because uh lots of people are {disfmarker} uh lose their remote control and don't know where it is ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , that's right , yeah .\nMarketing: and now you can put it always at the same place .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Maybe it's {disfmarker} Therefore it's a good idea , but maybe it's expensive .\nUser Interface: Maybe uh use it as a separate option . Sell it uh separately .\nMarketing: Yeah . You can {disfmarker} yeah , you can buy it with it .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , but I have a mouse that's uh uh also uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Rechargeable .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , and and you just have normal batteries that you can recharge and just put it in the station ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: or you can change your batteries ,\nMarketing: Oh yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so .\nProject Manager: The option , just the option , that's cool .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh I I set something on paper already , {gap} size , looks , uh usable , uh the buttons on usable places , uh the the on off button must be on top ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: uh it has to lay good in the hand ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: you you have to uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Has it be {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} does it has to b have to be um uh like a different form than a normal remote control\nMarketing: Yeah , I don't I don't know I don't know\nProject Manager: or {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well I think we have to look at that ,\nMarketing: if we {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: 'cause well you can do {gap} the standard way , but then you won't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: You can make it very special , to create our own um looks ,\nProject Manager: Yeah\nMarketing: but it's very hard to {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: N uh if if we want to make it special , we probably have to do a lot of testing , if it really works .\nUser Interface: Well you can um have uh {vocalsound} the basic things on the same place , like on off button on top and the T_V_ channels one two three four as a block , and then the volume uh obviously on t on top , so you can see .\nMarketing: Nah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: But the rest is uh you don't use that often , so if you have a clear button with an good icon on it , it should be clear as well .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So it doesn't matter what place it is on the remote control I think ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: so you can do something unique with that .\nIndustrial Designer: And what we have to think about too is uh uh buttons that you use often are um maybe uh like when you fold it open , when you have it closed , you {vocalsound} can still uh do the th the functions .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah , what Paul already said .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , just for the T_V_ and just the normal function , that's fine .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh on on top are the the basic options on top ,\nIndustrial Designer: But n {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah , but uh i {vocalsound} basically when I'm watching T_V_ I'm just using like five buttons or so ,\nMarketing: and if you fold it open {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But maybe it's\nUser Interface: Yeah {gap} .\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: That's what I meant .\nIndustrial Designer: so .\n",
      "Project Manager: maybe it's very hard to to make it fold open and to l look like it's very uh uh {disfmarker} what's it's called ?\nMarketing: Mm . If you if if you make to fold open it's or also an {disfmarker} uh the strength uh is not s as good as a normal uh remote control .\nProject Manager: {gap} Maybe it's hard t\nUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No , that's right . So maybe we have to to uh keep it like mm a square , just normal remote control {gap} .\nUser Interface: Okay , but yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Just think about it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: We have to close this uh to finish this uh meeting , so .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: There's some more things . We have uh another thirty minutes , so then we're going to meet again . So you know what you have to {disfmarker} what you have to do ?\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Um for m for me uh the Marketing Expert , the user requirements uh specification , do I need to think as a user , a as a a a only the looks and the {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} No , what you want to do with it .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I think this {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} you have to n know if it's for s a T_V_ , a D_V_D_ player , all that things . Also from a user , but all these things together .\nMarketing: Okay . Yeah , it's also about strength and uh for everything uh .\nProject Manager: Yeah , everything .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I also wrote down some stuff\nProject Manager: Yeah ,\nUser Interface: that you want on a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: no maybe not not uh {gap} , that's not a f that's something for for for {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Technical fun fu\nProject Manager: That's not for you . Just if {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: what's in the market , what's normal , uh what kind of uh buttons do you have .\nUser Interface: What do you want to do with your remote control , what do you need on your remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah , it's alright .\nUser Interface: I already wrote some down , some ideas .\nMarketing: Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , just {disfmarker} is that okay ?\nUser Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: There's already a document in the folder about it .\nMarketing: Yeah , me too .\nProject Manager: So see you in thirty minutes .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Okay , well done .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: For the next time you have to uh put it exactly on the square , so {disfmarker} your laptop .\nUser Interface: I will .\nMarketing: Oh Paul . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 6140,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 3,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This is the first Real Reaction's development meeting for the new remote control. The team members got acquainted with each other and Project Manager introduced the financial target. Each product would be priced at 25 Euros and a 50% profit is made, aiming at making an overall profit of 50 million Euros. In terms of style and design, the remote control should be stylish to stay competitive. Also, it should be made dependable and of medium size and the user interface can be made into face-plates. The material should be plastic as it is the lightest. To market the remote control, the project team can launch parallel marketing schemes to fit both customers who value the remote control's appearance and those who value its practicability. To market interchangeable fronts, the team can either get control in a set of colours or with face-plates.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Right w welcome to the the first meeting of uh Real Reaction's uh um development meetings for our our new television remote control . Uh this follows our very successful entry into the the consumer market over the last year or so um which we want to to build on , taking advantage of the uh the the latest developments in in technology and the uh the latest uh {vocalsound} uh feelings in in consumer design and and demand and uh we want to make this the the very best product th that's possible for everybody , uh one that everybody wants , uh at a good price for the consumer and at a good price for the company . Uh and to that end we need all to work together uh to do that . Um and uh b in no particular order because ev everybody is uh {vocalsound} just as vital to this project\n",
      "Marketing: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: um {vocalsound} I'll just go round th the table , Andrew , marketing , um m Kendra with the uh um {disfmarker} designing the the the User Interface uh uh and Kate with the the industrial design . Um . {vocalsound} What's uh {disfmarker} the the th th project is is here to do , is is to to get this this project up and moving , ev everybody is is free to uh say wh whatever they want , uh everybody has a contribution to make and uh {vocalsound} everybody feel free to interrupt me at any time to to say what you want to say . Um in in terms of the immediate meeting the uh um {gap} everybody knows everybody else , everybody's worked for the the company for a while , if if an anybody feels that they need to say more about themselves please do , if if if anybody wants to b briefly give their their background so that everybody's quite clear what everybody uh {disfmarker} uh everybody's experience is please do so . Uh in fact I'd I'd I'd welcome anybody to uh say something briefly about themselves , in fact we will do that by by going round the table quickly and and saying what what contribution you {disfmarker} you're looking to make . So we'll start with Andrew .\n",
      "Marketing: Oh my name's Andrew I'm a {disfmarker} I'm the Market Research person for this uh for this meeting and this uh project for creating this new remote control and uh yeah I'll be uh presenting information statistics on what people want to want to uh get from this new design , what people want to {gap} like {disfmarker} and from a fashion point of view and the practicality point of view .\nProject Manager: Right {vocalsound} Kendra .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} I'm Kendra and I'm the Us User Interface Designer and um {vocalsound} I haven't had a whole lot of experience in this kind of thing before but I'm m so I'll be {vocalsound} working on the design .\nProject Manager: Right at least means you haven't got any preconceived ideas so .\nUser Interface: Right . Yep , I'm just open to being creative .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I'm Katie ,\nProject Manager: Yep , good .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I'm the Industrial Designer and I'll just be I guess presenting about the the inter workings of our little remote control and uh {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , very very quickly , um {vocalsound} this {disfmarker} I don't want to make this meeting too structured because the the whole idea is that it's a um you know a think tank . Everybody says what they {gap} what they want to say , uh and we don't want to be constrained by uh kind of convention or uh uh slides on screens or or anything else um but um briefly um th th this is what we want to do . The the remote control needs to be original , there has to be something about it that uh other remote controls don't have so that as soon as people see it they think um yes that's different , uh I want one , um and that goes along with being trendy , uh uh you know the I want it uh scenario . User-friendly as as we all know , remote controls can be uh uh very user-unfriendly so we want to make ours one that people can pick up\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: and think oh yes that's {disfmarker} it's obvious how that works , uh and they also want to look at the price and think oh yeah that's something that {disfmarker} I may not need another remote control but uh it's such a nice one I'm gonna have one . And last but not least , or indeed first of all , it it must make the company money , and we make the company money by producing what the consumer wants . The uh the further work to be done is i the um the functional design , uh what it uh what it must actually do , the uh conceptual design , uh how we actually present that to the consumer and th the the detailed design i is uh how we get that into production . Uh now th the main design tool that we have available to us at the moment is is the white board and uh uh {vocalsound} let us very quickly do what i what it says in the in the in the prompt slide here , um {disfmarker} In fact I suggest to avoid everybody untangling themselves from the uh the the wires , that we don't do that , um So I I {disfmarker} everybody knows what whiteboard is so we'll um uh we'll do a virtual drawing on the on on the whiteboard of of your your own uh uh favourite animal , but le let's go round the table , your favourite animal .\n",
      "Marketing: Um , badger . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm and why ?\nMarketing: Uh it's it's got nice contrast with black {vocalsound} and white and uh {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nMarketing: I feel they're {gap} underdog kind of status\nProject Manager: Oh right\nMarketing: and they're , the\nProject Manager: uh my my wife says my beard looks like a badger's arse 'cause of the the white streaks in it . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Um probably a duck\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Kendra .\nUser Interface: I just {disfmarker} I li I like the way they look and they're just nice animals and I like how they can fly or swim or walk around or whatever .\nProject Manager: Uh-huh . Right , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh 's horses , no particular reason why {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Uh-huh , {gap} fair enough yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: I'm not sure that I've got any favourite animal to be quite honest , I think homo sapien\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: because of their {disfmarker} their uh overall ability to uh uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Make mobile phones and T_V_ remotes {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Sorry ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: to make T_V_ remotes {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Indeed absolutely yes ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: tha that's um {disfmarker} Okay and uh w we need to keep in mind here that the uh {disfmarker} we want to sell this for for twenty five Euro um , we want to m make an overall profit for the the company of fifty million Euros so we're we're looking at selling a lot of these um ag across the the entire planet and and we're looking at a gross profit of fifty percent . {vocalsound} It needs to cost twelve Euros fifty to make . Um so we're not only looking at a a very trendy original product , we're looking at making it at a very good price . Um , okay , um {vocalsound} would anybody like t like to to start by giving their o um sort of quick views of of current remote controls .\n",
      "User Interface: Well I think {disfmarker} I find a lot of them really complicated to use with all the different buttons and uh it's handiest when you have one that works both the D_V_D_ player or whatever and the T_V_ as well . Um , but that {disfmarker} it's easy to {gap} if you can switch back and forth instead of having to {vocalsound} press a bunch of different buttons\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: and {disfmarker} so I think it's is best when they're clearly labelled and you can see which buttons you're supposed to use , you know .\n",
      "Project Manager: Any any thoughts about buttons or any oth other way of approaching the p the uh the problem ? Or anybody else , strong feelings about remote controls ? Are there you know , bad ones they've used or good ones they've used or ones that they've lost and never found again ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I think it's important that you should be able to {disfmarker} when you when you press the buttons it'll actually pick up the signals from kind of anywhere and you shouldn't have to like contort yourself and twist your remote control to get it {disfmarker} the T_V_ to actually pick up the signal .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Think a lot of the time , remotes that come with T_V_ players and {gap} T_V_s and D_V_ players , like they aren't\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: like an area that's put a lot of effort into , they're very boring , very plain .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Like it's very {disfmarker} a very {disfmarker} like um making a a stylish remote control would be a very like {disfmarker} Easily put us one step ahead of the current competition .\nProject Manager: Um what so wh what's in in {disfmarker} what particular style features are you thinking about ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Um . Something that looks looks {disfmarker} doesn't look like remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: So if you want , {vocalsound} something that looks like uh {disfmarker} something that makes you think oh what's this ? Like this pen doesn't really look like a pen ,\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nMarketing: but it makes you think oh .\nProject Manager: {gap} . Yeah\nMarketing: So , sorry that's a bit vague {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: d no I mean do you think there's a risk if it doesn't look like remote control , {vocalsound} people won't see it as a remote control um and uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Uh I suppose suppose that's up to the marketing to to make make people aware of the product .\nProject Manager: Uh-huh . Any other thoughts about um th the physical appearance of a {disfmarker} of remote controls ?\nUser Interface: I think something that's comfortable to hold because sometimes you get the remote controls that are just those big , rectangular things\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: and uh they're kind of awkward to hold onto ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so something that's more comfortable that fits in a person's hand better .\n",
      "Project Manager: I mean th the thing that i immediately comes to mind is computer mouses which um I mean y you get all sorts of shapes in the shops\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: and s you know some quite fancy ones um than the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: some from personal experience which look nice\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: but {vocalsound} aren't particularly comfortable . Um {vocalsound} any thoughts about buttons or flat screens or uh uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Well from the mouse idea you could , {gap} remote is a piece of plastic with the big rubber buttons sticking out of it which you press , whereas if you want {gap} {disfmarker} could all be flat and the buttons are very kind of almost subtle that instead of being raised out of the device uh you push into device you see , like a mouse button .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes , I mean {vocalsound} the only thing is if if you're watching television in a in a a darkened room um you need to be able to uh\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: I suppose .\nProject Manager: fi find the button buttons easily .\nMarketing: Easily , yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: But maybe they could be concave instead of sticking up to have them {disfmarker} be kind of down so you could feel them\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: better .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , that's uh {disfmarker} must admit I don't think I've ever seen one with concave buttons , that's uh {disfmarker} certainly be different . Um do we need it to uh {disfmarker} I can't think of any re remote controls that I know of that actually light up at all .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Oh yeah .\nProject Manager: Do we do we want uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm that would be good .\nUser Interface: Like a like a mobile phone ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Mm , yeah that would be good .\nProject Manager: Okay . So , Andrew have you had any thoughts yet about how we might market something which there are already millions out there and that we want to uh uh uh t take over the entire um {disfmarker} the planet with ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm , um {vocalsound} especially if we try to sell , what two million of them . Oh sorry , four million of 'em , but uh {disfmarker} I think if w if we market it as as not as not {disfmarker} well this {disfmarker} you c you could either market it as the point of view {disfmarker} we could have the two {disfmarker} we could have parallel marketing s schemes where you've got one where it appeals to people that want to have the new device that looks cool , is fashionable\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: and like you just {disfmarker} it's it's like uh it's one that rather than ra I wan I want rather than a kind of a need relationship with the device ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: but that might {disfmarker} considering the act what the device is for and the nature of some people might not like respond to having a device that they just looks nice , therefore they want it so {disfmarker} make it practical at the same time . I think it's {disfmarker} this is gonna have to appeal to people that want device that can enhance their living room\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: uh but also a device that uh is practically sound .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , yeah , yeah , well\nMarketing: So um , I dunno we'll have to decide which which angle we're gonna go to or both . If you {gap} .\nProject Manager: I d I think an any uh any facets that we identify w we aim {disfmarker} need to aim for for all of . Um okay well\nMarketing: Mm . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: first thoughts on um the the industrial design side .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh I think it's it's {disfmarker} remote controls are kind of a unique object 'cause it's {disfmarker} you depend on them so much , but you don't {disfmarker} i i it's {disfmarker} you sort of just assume they're always gonna work , you don't think of them as a comp like a computer can break down and you're kinda like oh well fair enough there's all these complex things going on , it's gonna {disfmarker} something's gonna get messed up eventually . They they just need to be very very dependable because people sort of take them for granted and then if your remote control breaks it's {gap} {disfmarker} God forbid you actually get up and manually change the channel {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Indeed .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: it just {disfmarker} it needs to be very effective , very {disfmarker} always dependable . Uh I don't think we should make it too small I {disfmarker} 'cause I think it needs to {gap} it can't be too big like you were saying big an and huge and um awkward , but also if you make it too small kinda like you know how mobile phones are getting smaller and smaller um , it's just gonna end up under a couch cushion somewhere and um yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: But {disfmarker} so yes dependable , and have a {gap} good medium range size .\nProject Manager: Okay , and um colours , materials ? Kendra , anyone ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well , most {disfmarker} I think most of the remote controls now are either just black or grey ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} .\n",
      "User Interface: so maybe we should go with something different or be able to {disfmarker} I was just thinking of um {vocalsound} what they're doing with mobile phones now how you can get the different um {disfmarker} what are they called ? Like the face-plates\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: that you change so we could have maybe {disfmarker} I don't know if it would be feasible to do something with that , where you can change the face-plates or have kind of a variety\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\n",
      "User Interface: so people can get different different things . Have it kind of look how they want to , different colours , things like that ,\nProject Manager: Right .\nUser Interface: probably just plastic because that's always the lightest .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay that's uh {disfmarker} Again I don't think that's ever been done before ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: it's uh the sort of {gap} the sort of thing that would get people uh thinking yes that's something that I haven't got and uh might need so . Uh Andrew , any thoughts about uh how we might market interchangeable fronts on on the remote control ?\n",
      "Marketing: Um , well we could either market it together by getting control in a set colour or with {disfmarker} like you buy it with several uh like you ge you get the f uh the face-plates with it when you buy or as a separate thing , but uh {vocalsound} maybe thinking of that , it's {disfmarker} considering the nature of the device , maybe a second thing {disfmarker} like a second campaign to market new facials for your {disfmarker} to your {disfmarker} might go a bit astray\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: since it is the kind of thing where y you generally get one and then forget about it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Unless you were trying to {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Well you could come up with like novelty ones , like they've done with the the mobile phones , you can get like different you know scenes from different movies and stuff on the remote control\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh\nIndustrial Designer: and sorta stagger the release of them\nMarketing: it's {disfmarker} that's a that's a good idea .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and get people like oh I want that cover on it now and that'll keep them spending money .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-mm .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Right , okay\nMarketing: Yeah true .\n"
    ],
    "length": 4424,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 4,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The group met to decide which features were desired by users and to decide how to design the shape and appearance of the remote control. Marketing and User Interface presented on what features were desired by remote control users, and Industrial Designer presented on the required internal components of a remote control. They decided not to pursue speech recognition and settled on designing a rounded one-handed remote control with minimal buttons.",
    "docs": [
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {gap} .\nProject Manager: Right . Okay . Alright . Is everyone here ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . This is our conceptual design meeting . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'll just take a few minutes and uh go through the previous minutes . Um then each of you will have your presentation , um and then we will need to make a decision on the concept for the remote control . And then we'll have uh forty minutes for finishing up . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'll go through the mee through the minutes first . Um , we just refreshed our our uh goal of making the finest remote control available .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um we decided that , or we know that we need to use company colours , company logo . Um {vocalsound} and our Marketing Expert uh gave us some i uh information from interviews with a hundred different remote users . Um with some statistics that backed basically what we were thinking before . People thought their remotes were ugly , um um that remotes zap a lot . Um they only use uh a finite amount of buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Um and that they often lose the {disfmarker} it's easy to lose a remote . Um which were all things we were thinking we would {disfmarker} wanna make it simple . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And uh some sort of locator . Either a button or tracking device . Um {disfmarker} And that it should look different than what's out there . Um {disfmarker} Kind of mixed mixed response on the speech recognition . The younger people said they wanted it , older people did not . Um uh I think we decided that um the expense was not necessarily worth it , and that it was probably a gimmick , that um would increasingly wear on the consumers' nerves . Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Then the User Interface Designer um explored some of the technical functions of the remote . Um the simple versus the um the complex . The simple one being better for a user , the complex better for an engineer . Um {disfmarker} Um and some personal preferences that were found in that would be that it should be a user-oriented remote , something simple . Um and that we didn't wanna go with a universal remote , because uh increasing cost and increasing complexity . Um we would just have a T_V_ remote . Um and that we should also focus on the appearance of the remote . Have it s be something that looks different . And finally our um Industrial Designer uh gave us a rundown of how the remote will work . Um from energy source , um uh what we would use . Batteries because we don't wanna have a a cable . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How that would power the remote and the lamp . If we were to to have one . Uh um the user interface then would connect to a chip , {vocalsound} which would work with the infrared controls uh to send the signal to the T_V_ . Um {disfmarker} I believe then we came up with a couple of ideas for what we think the design of the remote will be . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um something that will fit into uh easily into someone's hand . {vocalsound} And with a , just a few buttons . Just the basics . And with a scrolling um function also . Okay and I will leave that , leave it at that . So {disfmarker} Marketing ?\n",
      "Marketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: We're watching trends .\nMarketing: Yep . Can I have your cable please ?\nProject Manager: I suppose that you can have this .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Thanks . Okay so I was looking at trend-watching . Um unfortunately I wasn't given too much information . I was given a brief executive summary , and then an update on some recent fashion trends that we might like to look at . And then I'll just tell you some personal preferences that I got from that . Um okay the most important finding was that the fancy look-and-feel seems to be twice as important to the users as the current functional look-and-feel design , which I think we've kind of already discussed before . Um the second most important finding was that the remote should be technologically innovative . And again these are all things we've kind of already come up with on our own , but this just backs it up . And thirdly the remote would be easy to use . As far as fashion update , we've learned that fruits and vegetables will be the most important theme for cloths , shoes and furniture .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: So that might be a bit of a challenge to incorporate this into our remote , but we can try . Um and also , as opposed to last year , this year the material is expected to be spongy in feel . {vocalsound} Okay so from that um , as we've already said , we need to focus on a fancy look-and-feel . Um I think we've already discovered that it's kind of hard to go away from the traditional rectangular design . But I think that , even if it's very subtle , we need to kind of trick our consumers , so they at least get the idea that they're getting something that's new and modern and sleek and {disfmarker} Whether it's through the shape or the colours or all of that . Um for technologically innovative , we've talked about the tracking device . We brought up the idea of having two pieces , which we could discuss further . And Manuel had suggested um the energy source and the user interface , discussing some of those , um that we could change a little bit . We need to keep it simple , have limited buttons , which I think the two piece idea might be really beneficial for . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} we need to incorporate this fashion trend of fruits and vegetables . I don't know , I mean I guess the two options are if we had our remote in the shape of a fruit or vegetable .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} A banana shape ?\nUser Interface: Oh it was sort of banana shaped . {gap}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . Right . Or with exterior designs . But my question is , I mean the stereotypically speaking , you kind of picture males with their remote controls , and I'm not sure how they'd feel about having fruity logos on the outside .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: So maybe we could have something that's somewhat removable , or I don't know , different options for female , male target groups . And then the spongy feel . I guess we could look at mobile phones and other technology that's out there . C and look at different types of material that {vocalsound} might please our users who want spongy-feeling remote controls . So that's that .\nProject Manager: So possibly like a uh ,\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: sorry , just to butt in for a second . Possibly uh like a cover like they have for mobile phones ?\n",
      "Marketing: That's what I was thinking yeah .\nUser Interface: Those like , yeah , sort of spongy ones .\nProject Manager: You have one with a flag , and one with a banana and one that's a spongy\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . So when you buy your remote you can buy\nProject Manager: feel to it . {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker}\nMarketing: various coverings .\nProject Manager: Mm various covers .\n",
      "User Interface: What's it called ? Cust you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} personalised , yeah .\nMarketing: Personalise your remote . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We could leave that to the cover department . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} We all know they've got nothing to do all day .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Okay . Why can't I see the {disfmarker} crazy . Um yeah I {disfmarker} talking about the interface concept and how the customer relates to , will use the , consumer will use the actual device . Um so I've looked at some of the stuff I was sent , um , try and get some inspiration . But keep in mind that our own ideas that we had . Um I was sent some information from the company saying that they , the technology department have devised a new speech recognition technology , where you can program questions into such devices . They gave an example of a coffee machine where you program a question , you program the answer , and the machine responds accordingly . Um okay . There's different ways of a user can use products l like a remote . Um there's a graphical use , where you you look at pictures and well on a screen . A command line where you obviously type things in , and you get a response . Um and then it ju that's just to point out the sort of inconsistent u sort of use of interface in remotes . You can't really see that picture well , but there's various different remotes , once again with lots of different buttons on , making it more complicated .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: So , then I had a look at new products that are on the market . Not necessarily remote controls but ones that you'll recognise . Um this is the voice , there is a voice recognition remote control , which can control mus multiple devices . I have a {disfmarker} there is a picture {gap} . You surf your favourite channels uh with your voice . Store up to eighty speech samples , controls four devices , T_V_ , cable , satellite , V_C_R_ , D_V_D_ and audio . And you can record your own v verbal labels , that are connected to remote control functions . So the technology is there . Um the one on the left is very similar to what we drew up on the board in the previous meeting , where there {disfmarker} has scroll down functions on the side . You can sort of just make those out . And then on the right is obviously an iPod , which is you know possibly one of the simplest things to use out there , and really is , and all that is is just a a nice big scroll menu that y you sort of go through . That is a {vocalsound} possibility . And nothing's simpler really . Um then there's things like this , which is a a a kid's remote , where the the parents have the facility to control and program what children can watch before . So the remote control it o only allows them to access the channels that their parents want them to watch . And um it means that th children have a novelty of having their own remote control . So I don't know {gap} if there's a possibility of having one remote contr you know like we just had two components , maybe it can have more components you know , different remotes . Um the point made at the end there here is that you have to be sort of be {disfmarker} need to be clear on your um devices , as to what , you know , things you use . Sometimes an arrow pointing down , which may suggest volume down , could become confused just as a V_ for volume . Just little things like that , which would need to be made clear in the design . Um I think , d carrying on from what I've already said , a user friendly remote with minimum buttons . Maybe we've so suggested this two-part thing , where if it was to have a speech recognition thing , you could maybe control that on the {disfmarker} do it {disfmarker} or program all that on the control bit . And then just have the simple sort of hand-held thing that we sort of devised earlier , as the actual remote . Um I don't {disfmarker} it could be a graphical display , the actual remote contr the actual control port maybe could have like an iPod where you just sort of control through the menus . Stuff like {gap} gets more and more compli complicated . And then the the hand-held bit should be ergonomically designed . And that is it . Why am I {disfmarker} Oh yeah . Just {gap} . {gap} Where are we ? Uh . Just to sort of show you . M {gap} they've even got things like that .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Huge things . Which is just {gap} for your gr ninety year old grandma yeah ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: That's industrial design for cranes , stuff like that .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Notice the giant dog bone shape ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Dunno .\nIndustrial Designer: Makes sense , makes sense .\nUser Interface: And that {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Also good for animals .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . See . {gap} things {gap} . {gap} . Why's my screen crazy ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} Well let's see . I'm going to bore you with a couple of descriptions of the interior .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Just to to make it more obvious what we have to fit in there , and that we do have to fit the stuff in there . I've more information on possible materials um as well . What we can and cannot do . Um but let's just wait for this to load up and I'll show you what we're talking about here . Okay . The details of the components' design , as you can see there , what we have is the board , main board of the remote control . {vocalsound} The underside , that's pretty cheap piece of of technology really {gap} top left side you can see the chip , which is the , what we were talking about , this was is the device to recognise the signals the input , and it passes it on to a row of um further transistors and stuff like that on the right side that actually amplify the signal , which later on is being , is being transferred to a infrared lamp which then um of course shines infrared light onto the television which then will recognise what signal um it's getting and will do what you tell it . Um {disfmarker} So much for the the workings of the of the uh remote control itself . {vocalsound} Its job is to wait for you to press a key , then to translate that key press into infrared light signals , um that are received by the television . When you press a key um you complete a specific connection . The chip senses the connection and knows what button you pressed . It produces a morse code line signal specific to that button . Right . Pretty clear . Transistor amplifies the signal and then sends the m sends the signal to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . The sensor in the T_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal reacts appropriately . This is the circuit board from the other side . Um the lower part of it , I don't know if you can see that properly , with the green greenish board is is what we what we saw in the first the first slide just flipped over . Um you can see the circuit board itself . That's the cheapest uh way to make electronic connections basically on the market . Um what you do is you have , don't have cables , but you have the connections actually in these in these lines on the on the board . These are the actual keys that are being pressed . They close the electric circuit . That then sends the signal to the chip on the other side . That would be behind here . Um which uh sends it over to the transistors and all that stuff that\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: amplify the signal and all that is being sent to the infrared lamp up there . Now as you can see this is the the rubber button version of it . {vocalsound} Um the way it works is that you have the keys here . The rubber button has a little metal uh plate on the other side , which closes the circuit here . And thus gives on the signal . Now this is the simple version . {vocalsound} Um we are talking um this this the simple and cheapest version at the same time . We are talking something more complicated of course , it's going to be more expensive as well . And not only that . Um we are also restricted in the use of our outer shell , or in the material that we could use for our outer shell . Um {vocalsound} I've gotten some information that we could use for the case material plastic , rubber , as well . Um rubber that is used in these anti-stress balls . So it's pretty squishy . That would that would serve that purpose .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Spongy ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} we could also use wood , or titanium .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} What's the approximate per hundred thousand for the titanium ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh fya\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I don't have an information on that . However our company {vocalsound} obviously can provide us with uh with the titanium , so I assume , I'm , I was given an okay to use it .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} It certainly is an expensive material ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I'm aware of that , but I was given an okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But there are certain restrictions to certain materials . Now let's first go through the list with the materials . So we what we can use is plastic , rubber , wood and titanium . Can also mix these . Um as for the energy source , um we were talking about that shortly in the other meeting . Um what we could use is , or what I was offered , or what we could use , is a basic bateer battery . Right ? Uh a dynamo . Interestingly enough .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um we could use solar cells . Or a device that was not n not further specified that provides kinetic energy . Such as like watches you know . Where you just move them m move the the actual device and this pr uh provides it with with uh some energy . So um obviously I personally have to say that dynamo is out of the question really .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: You don't wanna wind up your remote control before you can use it right ? Um solar cell is interesting . {vocalsound} May fail though , every here and there .\n",
      "User Interface: Would you have to leave it by the window ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Yeah\nUser Interface: {gap} yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: . Or you know you lose it , it lies behind the couch for a week\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: and {disfmarker} yeah mm .\nProject Manager: Works well in Arizona but in Edinburgh not so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Always the {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Y probably not yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: exactly .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um the kinetic energy thing um might work , um but the same problem . You leave it lying around and you first have to shake it before it it starts to work .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So I'd say what we're stuck with really is um the basic battery . Which also makes a base station basically obsolete . We don't need that then . Um {disfmarker} However our interface options are push-buttons . In which uh in the production of which or in manufacture of which um our company is expert . Um {disfmarker} However we've discussed that scroll wheels are a better option . And they are possible . We have an okay for scroll wheels . Okay . Um however {vocalsound} when it comes to the scroll wheel of the iPod I've one big objection and that is that we have to fit an L_C_D_ into the remote control as well . This however may exclude certain um materials . If you have a squishy uh kind of remote control , then an L_C_D_ screen may be affected by the movement . Hence we might not be able to put it in there . So um {disfmarker} There's also restrictions {vocalsound} to , when it comes to the chip . If we have a more sophistic uh sophisticated scroll wheel rather than this very basic uh set-up that we that I've just presented , um the chip has to be more s more sophisticated and thus more expensive as well . I don't have any details to , when it comes to the cost but um it will be a significant difference . I'd rather say drop the titanium and therefore let's have a more sophisticated chip , but that's not up to me to decide really . {vocalsound} So that's for the for the scroll wheel . Um it limits our choice and squishy is hip , so I'd say rather not go for for that . Let's see now . Um um solar cells cannot be used on a curved or latex um surface or um remote control . But obviously that's not our problem um since we have decided or against solar cells , I assume right ? Or is anybody still {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No I think I think batteries are probably the way to go .\nIndustrial Designer: alright .\nMarketing: No . Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Alright .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh which makes it very conventional but therefore traditional I assume . Um {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} With the titanium um we cannot make it a curved design . We would just be able to make it flat and and um yeah a straight design pretty much . Which I assume would exclude uh some of the more sophisticated versions . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Would the sort of {vocalsound} spongy and the the plasticky thing {disfmarker} y you can get those mobile phones that initially have a {disfmarker} it is plastic but then they have sort of a a s a cover on it which is just sort of soft and stuff .\nMarketing: Mm . Like a covering . Yeah .\nUser Interface: So I don't know if that would still be possible to have you know {gap} in plastic . But then where do people hold it ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Just all be sort of spongy .\n",
      "Marketing: The we can have the fruits and vegetables on the spongy parts , so they can remove it .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So you {vocalsound} as the the possibility of having a a graphical display on it , like a screen ? Like the iPod ?\nIndustrial Designer: You can have an L_C_D_ screen . Um but therefore no rubber will be used .\nUser Interface: Right .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Alright ? So plastic yes , titanium yes , but this will of course influence the form . With plastic , as I understand it , you can use any form . Um latex is tricky . Or rubber and um and titanium also seems to be tricky when it comes to the form . So the way to go is if you want a scroll wheel you either make it flat and angular , uh add an L_C_D_ screen , and um then you can basically choose either plastic or titanium . Or wood even .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um if you wanna make it a particular shape , use plastic . Add an L_C_D_ screen , add a scroll wheel , that'll be fine .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Or make it just push-buttons . Basically plastic gives you the b biggest variety of of options . Maybe not the nicest feel . Or not much originality really .\nProject Manager: So the ru wait the rubbery {disfmarker} we can shape it however we want ? Or the rubbery we cannot ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} With rubber we could uh sh pretty much shape it the way we wanted it ,\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but we cannot add scroll wheels , and we cannot add an L_C_D_ screen .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's the tricky thing .\nUser Interface: Could we not you know have a shape with a scroll and the screen , and then j just sort of that initial shape we had , just which is uh sort of banana-esque . So that's {gap} thing if we did it yellow .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: And um you know you just p stick on just sort of rubber things that that sort of grip the thumb bit . They wouldn't have any {disfmarker} they're just on the exterior . They wouldn't be necessary to the actual shape of the thing .\nProject Manager: Is that an option , a plastic shell with a rubbery coating on at certain spots ?\nIndustrial Designer: S Certainly can be done yes . Um yeah . if that doesn't affect the functional side of it all .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Like say just the underside or so then it can be done . I assume . Yeah . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The fruit design um {disfmarker} How about um affecting the surface of the actual um remote control ? Say we don't make it p a particular fruit shape obviously ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: but uh give it like the surface of an orange , banana , whatever . You name it .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: What about a smell ?\nIndustrial Designer: Just design-wise .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: T {vocalsound} to the remote ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Nice one .\nUser Interface: You could just sell it in different colours as well I suppose . In different ye yellows .\nMarketing: Bright citrus colours yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: I don't suppose we have to stick to co\nIndustrial Designer: Well we we're supposed to stick to the company colours though ,\nUser Interface: Stick to the colours yeah .\nMarketing: Oh yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: that's yellow and grey .\nMarketing: Yellow and grey .\nProject Manager: Yellow and grey .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So what have we , lemon , banana , is {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm grapefruit . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Grapefruit .\nIndustrial Designer: Grapefruit\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: is what we'd go for , when it comes to the outer appearance perhaps . But {disfmarker} mm .\nProject Manager: I would say , if I were to make a decision , I would probably put the fruit aspect at the lower lower end of the spectrum of of importance .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {gap} .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I think having a shape could be a little ridiculous ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} like {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well we have it banana-shaped already , kind of .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well we kinda do yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well perhaps the implied shape will be enough to lure that fruit-minded remote buyer .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {gap} {vocalsound} and if it if it was done yellow , which is a company colour .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} And if it's yellow ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: It's it's yellow . It's curved .\nIndustrial Designer: I it's yellow .\nMarketing: Grey buttons yeah .\nProject Manager: It's sort of {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Well so why not add a couple of grey stripes and make it look like a banana ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: couple of couple of grey stripes .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {gap} We could put the grey stripes on the bottom so that that person could turn it over .\nUser Interface: On the the gr the rubbery grips could be grey .\nProject Manager: It would look like a banana just sitting on their table .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: There you go .\nProject Manager: Rather than {disfmarker} {vocalsound} rather th {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: It could {disfmarker} and then you could actually h put the banana-shaped thing on the fruit bowl , on the coffee table ,\nMarketing: Oh .\nUser Interface: and then people would always know where it was .\nProject Manager: Maybe the holder , if we were to have a holder , it could be shaped like a fruit .\nMarketing: Nice . Could look like a fruit bowl .\nIndustrial Designer: It could be an ape . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Could be ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: it could be an ape or a fruit bowl . we could have a variety of options here .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: 'Kay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Do you have more to your presentation ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's pretty much it . I informed you about the materials , what the interior has to look like , and what the limitations to certain materials are on\nProject Manager: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} there you go .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . I'm gonna plug in here real quick . If I could .\nIndustrial Designer: Sure . Hang on . There you go .\nProject Manager: Like I said we have to make a decision on a couple of these items here . Um {disfmarker} ow . Ow .\nMarketing: So is the two piece idea out ? Or have we not decided ?\nUser Interface: Well we sort of {disfmarker} {gap} rid of that because {gap} gonna use a battery . And the base station might not be necessary .\nMarketing: Oh right okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well we can still design a two-piece uh remote um without having a base , having one of them be a base station ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: but just have it be an optional either big remote with lots of functions , or you take out the smaller piece .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: We can still do that . However {vocalsound} of course this would be like designing two remotes pretty much .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So um which then , as I understand it , would probably limit the , limit again the the the use of certain materials , because they would be too expensive . Say like have a scroll wheel and uh on both of them , or have an L_C_D_ screen and so on so on . You'd probably have to stick rather with a just traditional rubber button\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: design which we saw there .\nMarketing: Mm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: But could be done , of course .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . Uh so these are the decisions that we do need to make by the end of this meeting . Um for our components concept we need to come up with the energy source , um the chip-on-print , and the case . Probably case um material . And probably a shape also . Um and then for the user interface concept we need to decide what the tape , what , what the type is . And what kind of supplements we'll have . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Energy source I think we've , I think we've decided batteries , although not exciting , are probably our best bet .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\n",
      "Project Manager: And we have five minutes .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay when it comes to the chip-on-print , as I said , the the more advanced features you want , um the fancier the chip has to be and the more expensive . Uh if you want just a normal button version , the chip-on-print is gonna be\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: a cheap one .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nIndustrial Designer: Right ?\n",
      "Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Um I guess we should pick the case then . If we go with the plasticky case , or the the plastic case , um then the chip-on-print is still kind of , we could have either or . We could have a complex one or a a non-complex . But did we decide that the rubbery feel was important enough to us ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Well what about what you said , like putting the\nUser Interface: Just {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nUser Interface: just maybe {disfmarker}\nMarketing: finger grips just on top of the plastic ?\n",
      "User Interface: yeah . Just a little bit of {gap} .\nProject Manager: Okay . So we would , we would have the L_C_D_ screen ?\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} as long as the pla uh the rubber is nowhere near the controls , yes .\nProject Manager: 'Kay . So I guess the case would be plastic , with {disfmarker} Perhaps that's not even enough rubber to qualify as being part of it . It's more of a su it's more of a supplement maybe .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: M more of a l lamination perhaps . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: So then for the scroll , are we going for the iPod type ?\nUser Interface: Yeah I think so . I think {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah ? Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Which will require a more expensive chip-on-print right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . It does .\nProject Manager: 'Kay . So {disfmarker} I guess that , is that , is that about it ? So we have a good idea of what we're gonna need to to do on this ?\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um okay so we will have another meeting in thirty minutes . Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Here's what's gonna be going on . Um {disfmarker} Um Ryan you'll be working on the user interface design . Um {disfmarker} Manuel you'll be working on the look-and-feel design .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: Corrine we'll want a product evaluation . And the two of you get to play with the uh modelling components and uh\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 7649,
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  },
  {
    "id": 5,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager introduced a new remote control project for television. At first, team members got their roles. Then they discussed what had to be done to design a remote control which had different features. Priority will be given to the functions. For example, team members hoped that users could choose what they want not by channels but by contents. To implement the functions, they discussed a lot, such as speech recognition interface and navigation buttons.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Good morning everybody .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Good morning . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Good morning .\nMarketing: Good morning .\nProject Manager: So , we are asked to to make uh uh a new remote control for television . And the characteristics of this new remote control should be original and trendy and of course user user friendly . So people can {gap} can use it without any any problem .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I don't know .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Well , I think we should set the the points to to drive the project and uh\nUser Interface: Mm . B did you send us an email about this ?\nProject Manager: Uh , not yet ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: but if you want {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , we we received an email about this uh d designs . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Do you want do you want me to send you a mail ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Ah it's Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Or {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or you can put it in the shared folder .\nUser Interface: Yeah , you see the email ? You {gap} email . The v very {disfmarker} no , no the first one .\n",
      "Marketing: No , I didn't get it .\nUser Interface: It's inside .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: This one .\nUser Interface: No , no .\nMarketing: No .\nUser Interface: The third one . Oh , you didn't get anything .\nMarketing: No , {gap} .\nUser Interface: It's strange . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nUser Interface: I got an email about the dis about the discussion . Yeah .\nProject Manager: You get email , {gap} . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: I dunno from who .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , from the account manager .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} From the account manager . You have received the same email , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I think it's for your guys to {vocalsound} how to design it all the aspects so you need that information .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I think so .\nUser Interface: Yeah , so each of us has a role to do .\nMarketing: Yeah\nProject Manager: S\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} I think {gap} assign your uh roles .\nUser Interface: In each {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: For each for each one .\nUser Interface: We already have our role .\nMarketing: For each person , yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} 'Kay , we can {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So there are {disfmarker} so we have three {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: So there are three kinds of designs , that's all .\nProject Manager: f yeah . We have functional design , conceptual design , and detail design .\nUser Interface: Okay , alright . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: So , who will be the the responsible for the functional design ? Any any volunteer ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think our uh responsibilities will be assigned when we {disfmarker} in our mail we received from the account manager .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh\nUser Interface: I'm doing the interface .\nProject Manager: You are doing th\nIndustrial Designer: No , I'm doing the interface . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nUser Interface: Are you using the {disfmarker} you are doing the in {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah I I'm I'm {disfmarker} Well , maybe we have {disfmarker} okay so I {gap} industrial design . It was a little confusion about my uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Ah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: but it's alright .\nProject Manager: Okay , I'll for industrial design .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . And and you {disfmarker} Norman ?\nUser Interface: Mm ? Um working on i . {vocalsound} User interface . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: User .\nProject Manager: And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh , I'm into marketing .\nProject Manager: {gap} doing the marketing .\nMarketing: {gap} yeah nothing much in the project .\nProject Manager: Nothing related here to the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Marketing in this design .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nMarketing: A design is basically for industrial design and the user interface .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: You see the second mail ? Yeah , it's inside . Go down . Appendix .\nMarketing: Yeah , this is {gap} .\nUser Interface: See there's a role for everybody .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , that's right ,\nUser Interface: Even for the marketing .\nMarketing: first {gap} . {gap} us user define .\nProject Manager: Next {gap} .\nUser Interface: But look at your role , your marketing role .\nMarketing: There's a trend watching .\nProject Manager: I don't know .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's your role .\nProject Manager: I {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Well , I think we can have a little discussion about what has to be done\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and what are your ideas about the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: About the design or {disfmarker} Maybe we'll discuss this later , no ?\nIndustrial Designer: Well , w we want to have a new re remote control for for T_V_ distribution I guess .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: So we have to {vocalsound} plan how how it would be developed and uh\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: how we can make it work {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nMarketing: I mean working remotes we already have . This will be something different from the other remotes {disfmarker} remote controls .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: What we we have to keep in mind the {disfmarker} these characteristics .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I dunno I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And of course it should not be very costly .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's right .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I I think that Norman and I would think about um the technical points and um we should discuss it in the next meeting , or\n",
      "User Interface: Need to collect information . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: About the {disfmarker} about what ?\nUser Interface: Um . {vocalsound} I I'm part of design , perhaps . Uh , what is most important in a {disfmarker} in a remote control ? What is the most important function aspect ? Uh .\nProject Manager: You mean the external {gap} or {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Well , you have to make it work .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah of g of course .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} That's alright .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's the {vocalsound} that's the big thing .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , it should be easy to work with .\nProject Manager: Yeah {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: We can think about an interface with uh well {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Uh . We {disfmarker} maybe you can have a speech uh recognition interface . You just tell the television I want {disfmarker} which channel .\n",
      "Project Manager: You won't {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Or or you can say for example , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I want uh to list all the programme tonight . Y you know {gap} , instead of {gap} uh remote control it's doing the {disfmarker} some searching for you , so you don't have to look for the channel you want . Just say maybe I just want to press {disfmarker} I wanna have a button for all the movies tonight . Or a button for all the magazines , all the information {disfmarker} documentary tonight . And then you list a few , and I will choose from the list . So instead of pressing the channel number , I am choosing the programmes directly . Yeah , that's one way of uh making it useful .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: I I think if we include a lot of technology on the remote control it will be very costly .\nUser Interface: No , because {disfmarker} no ,\nProject Manager: S {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: it's not very {disfmarker} a lot . Th this information exists . For example you can get um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Like s uh you you you say we can use speech .\n",
      "User Interface: You can use uh {disfmarker} well for example {disfmarker} anything . {vocalsound} The {vocalsound} the idea of using speech to reduce the button , but uh and it's more natural . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I {disfmarker} I think if you want t to choose uh from a list of programme or or something like that you you may have to to use uh w uh I dunno\nMarketing: I'm a {disfmarker} okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: I mean the main uh function of remote control is to have something in the hand\n",
      "Project Manager: In the hand .\nMarketing: and we should be very careful about the size of the remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: If we are going to add a speech interface , I'm not sure with {gap} trendy slim size of the remote control it would be able to put a speech recog\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yes , possible .\nMarketing: if you want to put a speech recognition system f interface for that I think the T_V_ itself could have it .\nUser Interface: Yeah . But {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: And I could talk to the T_V_ {disfmarker} television itself .\nProject Manager: Except if if you are far from the T_V_ .\nMarketing: I need not have an {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I mean we have some {gap} or something , different technology but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: This is {vocalsound} it's {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , yeah . But th the main idea I wanted to s I wanted to say is that um {vocalsound} there should be a function , instead of choosing the ch T_V_ channel , there's a option you can choose , either T_V_ channels or or pr or the or the contain or the contents of the programme .\nIndustrial Designer: On the content .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah it's it's a good idea it's a good idea\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So it's more powerful . Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but I I think that technically it would be um a little bit uh uh more tricky to to achieve this than just to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: No . No , because you see now all the T_V_ programmes are available on the webs . They they are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are available in X_M_L_ format or whatever the format . We don't care . We just say that this are some content . We just want to retrieve the content and then classi sort them by the types of programmes . Some of the websites they already provide this service ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: so we can just use the service available . Download it uh to the {disfmarker} to this remote control .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: And then there's {disfmarker} there are only six buttons for six categories , or sev seven . The most there are only seven buttons . So I just choose the category one and you reuse the same button , for example to to choose among the the sorted list the programme you want , so {vocalsound} you don't have to choose among hundred channels , if you have hundred channels , you just have six buttons , seven buttons .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah we should also optimise the the number of buttons .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well I I I I think that j just by using navigation buttons and the user interface on the screen we are able to uh navigate uh through the {disfmarker} Well channel programme or contents or {disfmarker} in an easy way , so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: This is {gap} good idea .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Ah , yes . So {gap} . Yeah . Yeah , so you don't have to display here , just display on the T_V_ screen , right ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah in the dis display on the T_V_ screen\nUser Interface: Good idea {vocalsound} . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: and just uh with the with your remote control would just navigate through the f\nUser Interface: I think I think that will be revol revolutionary {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Because all the T_V_ uh the the remote control have all numbers , lots of buttons and then you dunno what to choose in the end . Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think for for the technical points we have to to to check how to gather the data from programme or contents and all this stuff\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: So we have five minutes to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Ah w w we have sometimes to use the white-board .\nProject Manager: Ah you can y you can you can use it if you {disfmarker} so , can we\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Five minutes .\n",
      "Marketing: And another interesting idea for this would be to have an light adaptation system depending upon the picture of {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay . Okay .\nMarketing: So , I mean , if you're watching a movie and suddenly there is a dark uh {vocalsound} some dark scene , the lights adapt themself .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: S\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: The lighting in the room changes .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , but we are designing just remote control .\nProject Manager: You {disfmarker} it {gap} .\n",
      "Marketing: I mean , we have a option in the remote control . If we want to have that option , you press that button in the remote .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh right so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay , do you want to have a conceptual remote control there , or you just want to put the function in ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . If if you you you can if you want you can use th the {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Please , Norman , draw uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Go on , draw something {gap} . {vocalsound} Mm .\nMarketing: Oh , I'm afraid you forgot to put your lapel .\nUser Interface: Where is it ?\nMarketing: The lapel .\nProject Manager: Or before the before the the design that says {gap} .\nUser Interface: Ah , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Where where is it ? Here .\nMarketing: Yeah , that one .\nProject Manager: Norman .\nMarketing: Just plug it .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's right .\n",
      "Project Manager: Be before before writing you can uh sit and that says {gap} what we what we said\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: then after that you can you can use the {gap} . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay , alright . So so the most functional des mm the most important function is to ch choo buttons to choose the content . Right ? We agree on that , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Uh , uh first one is to uh {vocalsound} buttons i or it could be anything with {gap} buttons . Uh to choose uh content s or channels .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: So we have both . The user can choose w which one they want , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , by content or by channel ,\nUser Interface: By content or by channel .\nIndustrial Designer: it's a good idea .\nUser Interface: Choose by contents or by channels . And then what did we say just now ? Other than this .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: And uh we we have to find a way how to gather information about the contents .\nUser Interface: Okay , so technically how {disfmarker} the problems that {disfmarker} how to do it is to {disfmarker} how to get the content .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Challenge .\nIndustrial Designer: I think i it's not very difficult to to browse by channel but it's a little bit tricky to browse by contents so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay . Content . Okay , so these we have to work it out . So this one of the problem . And uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I think that's the {gap} the things to do\nUser Interface: The main thing .\nIndustrial Designer: and uh to uh reflect about it\nUser Interface: Okay . Alright . Alright , okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and uh discuss it in the next meeting .\nUser Interface: So we are {disfmarker} we'll discuss it {disfmarker} we will get some information in the next meeting , so for now we get uh the funct this is the functional designer {gap} ? That's the first aspect . Right . We will {gap} get information and then we'll come back in . {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Thank you everybody . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , we'll come .\n"
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  },
  {
    "id": 6,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The team members met up for the first time to discuss the new remote control for the television. Each member introduced themselves and agreed that the product should be designed to be user-friendly. Industrial designer then proposed that the marketing plan is for the product to be fashionable and attractive. Project manager listed several subjects in need of settlement before the further discussion, including functional design, time frame, budget, product introduction marketing strategic plan and benefits for the company as well as the individuals, before he suggested more interaction among teams.",
    "docs": [
      "Industrial Designer: Oops That's as far as it goes {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Hi guys uh good morning everybody here . And uh I want to introduce myself , uh my name is uh Shrida Daseri and uh I'm a project manager for this new project which we are going to discuss now . So I want to introduce first of all uh the names and the colleagues here . And what you're uh drawing ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh sure my name is Agnes and I'm an user {disfmarker} usability user interface designer .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} My name is Ed and I do accounting .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh how you spell your name uh ?\nMarketing: E_D_ .\nProject Manager: E_D_ okay .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: And ?\nIndustrial Designer: Do you also do marketing ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} No {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: So only accounting ? Okay .\nMarketing: Accounting , yes .\nProject Manager: And ?\nIndustrial Designer: And I'm Christine ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and my role in this uh scenario is to be the industrial designer .\nProject Manager: Industrial designer .\nIndustrial Designer: But I'm not really one .\n",
      "Project Manager: So who is uh marketing , nobody in the market\nMarketing: Marketing is uh , is me {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: It's you , okay . So thanks for coming for the meeting first of all , and uh we have a long time , just twenty-five minutes to discuss about uh this project and the the project initiation . First of all I want to ask uh Mister Ed about your uh marketing plan and your product plan and uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Well I think that we'll see that throughout the day in how we're going to put this together as a marketing to to market the product . We'll have to see on a through discussion on where we're gonna go from here and from {disfmarker} with this .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm but uh do you already have like a functional design or a technical design or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh for the moment not yet .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh for the moment not yet , okay , but uh what's what's your uh {disfmarker} do you have some project plan , something with you or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Good question {vocalsound} . No , this is like I said that we have to be discussed between all of us and we'll go from there . We'll have to {disfmarker} simply we'll have to work on it together .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , so uh by when you think you can uh give me some kind of uh project plan , okay , a discussion with uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Certainly by the next meeting .\nProject Manager: By next meeting , okay that will be great . Uh Okay , so there's any questions or uh first of all about uh this project ?\nIndustrial Designer: What is the goal of the project ?\nProject Manager: Uh the goal of the project I think maybe I'll uh hand out to the Ed , okay , so to explain uh what is the project because he's in the sales and the accounting .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: I'm in the sales I'm supposed to explain them what to do {vocalsound} . We have to define exactly what our product is , from uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yes , so can you explain uh what exactly the product is ?\nMarketing: From what I had in mind we're supposed to be marketing coffee , is that right ?\nProject Manager: Oh I think uh , if I'm not wrong , we're making the remote control .\nUser Interface: Um I was wondering {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Remote controls , 'cause I had two different things . I had a first part of mine was to make a remote control for a new f remote control for television , and afterward I had a discussion about coffee so {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yes .\nMarketing: we'll start with the remote control for television then . So we're have to design something that is very user friendly .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Something uh visual that has something that will will draw people to buy the product ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: because I think everybody's experienced with uh remote controls , and some remote controls are are worth uh throwing out the window . Uh th most of them ar I don't know we're have to come up with a new idea on how to make it a lot easier to use ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: 'cause a lot of times uh spend uh half a day through the instruction book trying to figure out how to use it .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: And uh what abo uh Christine , what about your uh the industrial design plan ? Are you have a design already on this product or uh you're still working on the design ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um no , I I have not begun working on the design ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and um I uh I actually didn't know we were designing a remote control , I thought we were designing a new monitor . Um the website I went to look at had some announcements about an introduction of a um uh some sort of a seven inch um monitor , and um I understood that that was the project goal . So um I'm glad I didn't d do any work um ahead of time because uh I clearly didn't understand the project goal .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um I just did s see that we were starting a new project together and there was going to be a four member team composed of these people , and um that's about uh that's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and I I read through the different steps , and what my responsibilities were relative to the steps .\nProject Manager: So uh you'll be leading the team for your design team or how many members is working in the team , for the design ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh for the industrial design ?\nProject Manager: Yes .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um well , I would th think that depends on how much money you give us .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Um because uh , you know , you can uh you can make it uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have different choices with different financial models .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but uh before we talk about uh the finance , okay , uh do you have some idea how we can uh sell this product or project in the market and how much is going to benefit to the company and uh of course it's to the individual also .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , you know um , I kind of think that in general you have to do uh um y you have to have something that's very fashionable , that's uh very attractive {disfmarker} that um people see and recognize uh its goal , and uh they immediately wanna have it uh have one of their own . So it would {disfmarker} really would need to um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} something like the iPod would be good , seems to have caught on fairly well ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: so um d uh you know , I don't care what it does , just so it looks cool .\nProject Manager: Okay , but uh uh when you think you can give me like a kind of design on the functional design or the technical design ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , uh I've got a lot of other projects I'm doing right now um and so I'll have to wait and see how those uh how those go . If they uh go quickly then uh it could be a month . If um if I run into any problems in my other projects it might be six months .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , but uh I need something in the writing , so like uh what's your functional design , what's your technical design , and uh how many people you need for this project , and what's the time frame you're looking , okay , and what is the budget , maybe uh initial budget you're looking , okay , and uh how is going to the market , okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: so you've you've had to meet with the marketing team and how they're going to market and what are the marketing strategic plan , okay , when are you going to introduce , okay , and by the time you introduce the product and uh you know there there would be a competition , okay , so I need some kind of uh uh the plan in the writing from you . Okay , and it's po\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} And when would you like that ?\nProject Manager: B as soon as possible .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh well if uh if we have enough time uh then d do you think um two weeks is a {disfmarker} is close enough ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes I think uh that would be good , because I need to go to the management and uh tell them what we are going to do , and uh what cost is , okay , and what's the time frame and what's the project plan , because uh without any uh documentations , I cannot go to the management and say , so we are going to do this and we need this much money , okay , so then it's it's difficult for me to say , okay , that's the reason I need uh some kind of plan from you , initially , okay , then we can have the further discussion again .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} are there other people who will be contributing to the plan ?\nProject Manager: Yes , of course , if you need some help , uh so let me know . So , who are the people you need uh from the marketing or uh the technical side or uh the administration point of view , okay , to add in any documentation , or some technical point of view ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: so just let me know so I can uh coordinate all the teams .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , I'll get back to you on that .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes . Thank you . Okay . And uh Ed uh so what's {disfmarker} what do you think about uh this uh project for the remote control and d do you have some already planned something for your marketing strategy or uh the sales strategy ?\nMarketing: Well not yet other than uh doing research and taking remote controls and looking what other companies have to do uh , what they're building , their designs , their ideas ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Hmm . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: uh also have to pinpoint which market we're gonna go into .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: It should be a fairly large market because uh the number of people that uh {disfmarker} the competition ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: uh th I agree it has to be something {disfmarker} it has to be something new , it has to be something that that draws people saying eh , I like this . Whether it works or not , they have to first say I like this , I like the design , and then it's gotta be simple to use .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes , so what I uh prefer maybe uh you need to interact uh more with the Christine , okay , because you know what she is going to do it , okay , and you know how to sell it . Okay , because uh she is doing the design , but you are the core because you are in the marketing , okay ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so because you need to sell {disfmarker} and you're the responsible for the all the money , the finance , okay , tomorrow .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: So , what I prefer , okay , so you need to interact with the Christine more and uh within her team , okay , who is using the functional design or technical design , okay ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: and uh you need to come up with some kind of plan , okay , how we are going to do the {disfmarker} your sales plan , okay , th\nMarketing: Do we already have a cost limit on this , th an idea of how much uh we want to market this for , how much it's gonna sell for ,\nProject Manager: Th That {disfmarker} that's\n",
      "Marketing: that's up that's up to us to decide , eh ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes , that's {disfmarker} you have to decide , okay , so the best thing is you {disfmarker} uh both of uh the Christine and you discuss with yourself , okay , and come up with the cost , and how we are going to compete in the market , okay , in the the technically , or in the sales wise , okay , the commercial wise , okay . Then uh we have to design , okay , how long it will take the whole project , okay , how much is going to cost us , and how much we are going to benefit for the company . Okay , of course it's it's uh of benefit for everybody individually . Okay , so I think it's uh maybe if we can uh give me some kind of your uh the sales plan , okay , including the technical what uh she's going to talk to you within the team , okay , then it will help me to discuss with the management for further , okay , and put it in the the proper project plan . Okay , and if you need uh any coordination in between uh compared to the maybe the some technical vendors or commercial vendors , okay , depends if you want to have some uh uh marketing plan or technical plan , okay , so you let me know .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Very good .\nProject Manager: Okay , I can coordinate ,\nMarketing: Very good .\nProject Manager: or maybe uh , you are my coordinator , am I right ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Between uh all the coor\nUser Interface: Well , no , not exactly . I mean my job from what I understood was to look at the usability requirements and make sure that the product is usable , it's acceptable to the people who are gonna use it and look at the best ways to do that .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: So I think I'll have to interact with Christine and discuss with her , so that she's not designing something that my studies will show right off the bat that it's not going to work ,\nProject Manager: Th Christine , yeah {vocalsound} . Which is {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: and so it's sort of {disfmarker} it's a loop that feeds in , but I don't think necessarily that I'm in a coordinating position for it .\nProject Manager: Yes . Yeah , so basically you need to interact with Christine more , okay , for the user acceptability , okay , and the testing , okay ,\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: then you will {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Which will also feed into the marketing ,\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: because depending on what users want , depends on how you sell it , what tag lines you attach to it , how you try to make it more attractive to users .\nProject Manager: Yes . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nUser Interface: So I think all three groups will need to interact quite a bit . Um , and then I guess build the plan based on all of that , because I think you need to take all the factors into account .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yep . But what I request , okay , {gap} keep Ed in the loop , okay , in between your uh meeting and Christine meeting , because uh he should know what's happening .\nUser Interface: Yeah , of course {vocalsound} . Yeah , we can C_C_ him on any discussions or documents that are passed around .\nProject Manager: Yes . Okay and please please copy all the mails , okay , all the discussions to me , okay , so I need to submit to the management .\nUser Interface: Sure . No problem .\nProject Manager: So any questions for uh time being ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No .\n",
      "User Interface: So , the immediate next step is to start determining the functional design , or\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: {disfmarker} okay .\nProject Manager: Okay . To come up with the functional design and uh to discuss with Ed , okay , and how it's going to be work , and uh first of all with your user acceptance , okay , how it looks like and how it's going to be work in the market , okay ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: so then we can discuss about uh further things . So , we'll meet when the {disfmarker} we'll discuss on the further meeting .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: It's okay ? Thanks for coming .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Would you mind um at the conclusion of our meeting could could you send us a copy of your slides ?\nProject Manager: Yes , I will . Yes .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , yeah , that would be useful .\nProject Manager: I'll copy , uh le let us keep all the emails and all the copies , okay , share each other , okay , so you know everybody what's happening , okay ?\nUser Interface: Sure .\n"
    ],
    "length": 3740,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 7,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager introduced a new remote control project for television sets, and the team got acquainted with each other and technical devices. The remote control would be priced at 25 Euros and a production cost of 12.5 Euros. Priority will be given to standard features, such as sorting through channels, instead of more advanced internet features.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Or you get it . Okay .\nUser Interface: No I don't think so it has to be like that yeah and you have to adjust the length . Okay , and then .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So we uh {disfmarker} we will wait for Anna , a few minutes .\nUser Interface: Yeah , s yeah , um .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm {vocalsound} . Yours is well {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I think you can put anywhere you want , actually . I thin\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah but the the mic should not {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's not a directional mic , anyway .\nProject Manager: I think it should work like this .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh .\nProject Manager: So I will try to get my presentation running .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Can't help you with that .\nUser Interface: Last .\nProject Manager: It's no matter .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , it's y yeah .\nProject Manager: No problem . Ah yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Then press uh al\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: This .\nProject Manager: I don't know .\nIndustrial Designer: You know ?\nProject Manager: Just try .\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: On this normal {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh oh .\nUser Interface: Alt F_ five .\nProject Manager: Good . Doesn't appear on the screen here .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right well {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: Wow . Amazing . It's working {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Okay . Thank you . {vocalsound} Uh .\n",
      "Marketing: Hold that . Okay .\nProject Manager: Yes and you can put can clip it uh on your {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay . Mm .\nProject Manager: Somewhere . So , {vocalsound} good morning , everyone . Um {disfmarker} Welcome at uh {disfmarker} at the kick off meeting of our uh latest project .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I hope you all have been uh updated about it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Good .\nUser Interface: So . Yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: So w we will try to structure this uh meeting with an a with an agenda uh as presented here . Um after the opening we will tr get acquainted to each other .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: See what our roles are in this project . So , um {disfmarker} We have been provided with uh some uh w technical tools to uh {disfmarker} to communicate and to well , learn from each other's plans uh as I can say um so w we will also try to uh to get acquainted to this tools so they are also new to me I don't know whether you worked with them before . Um then we will come to the uh to the to the actual project plan . You all know I hope {vocalsound} how it's about uh the uh new r remote control we are going going to design .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Total .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh then we will uh discuss uh , well , how it should be and uh {disfmarker} wh what uh what our new product should look lite {disfmarker} like . And uh well then uh after some twenty five minutes I hope uh we can end this meeting . So . Um basically this is about a uh a new c remote control . Um {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} When you design a new product you of {disfmarker} uh you of course want it to be original . Be uh {disfmarker} we want to be distinguished , mm ? People uh want to uh when they look at the shelf want to think , well that's the product I I need . So it needs to be trendy . I mean trendy is what people want , so then I w they will buy our product . But then , uh , it also should work uh user friendly and uh otherwise people uh uh well it will not be uh be rated very well in consumer uh articles and like that .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: So , the general outline of uh new project will be we first uh go through a functional design phase . Um {disfmarker} You all get uh um certain task uh in this uh in this phase and uh then we will meet again and uh discuss this functional design . And the same holds for the uh ph two phases uh after this , the conceptual design and after that a a more detailed design in which the the final project should get its definite shape . Alright , but first we will do some uh tool training . In all in front of you uh you see uh the uh notebooks and w uh n note blocks and we have here a a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a white-board .\n",
      "User Interface: Whitebo\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And um well it should work uh {disfmarker} I've read it from my uh from some colleague that it should work with some kind of toolbar . I didn't find out yet how it work , but maybe one of you did , so {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Under documents in the shared folder . Okay .\nProject Manager: Yes . Do {disfmarker} Do we have to say something about that ? I I I'm not fully updated about this shared folder uh .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , I guess we'll have a shared folder uh with documents that we can share . And uh , yeah .\nProject Manager: Yes well we will then find out ho how it works .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: Um . Well , this seems to me , yes , some computer program but I didn't find it yet . So , we'll come to that later . So , uh now we will try out the white-board we have here . So , I would suggest uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Each of us is going .\n",
      "Project Manager: Well , yes , um we uh we should try to t to draw on it and then well it should be smart some way . I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm not really sure how this works , but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , shall I start ?\nMarketing: Mm . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yes ,\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nProject Manager: a good idea Mael .\nUser Interface: you can start it you know .\nMarketing: I think for us it's just like a normal whiteboard , but they'll be recording what we write down .\nIndustrial Designer: So , i\n",
      "User Interface: No they will record through that . There's a sensor over there\nMarketing: Mm . Mm .\nUser Interface: which is going to record the strokes that you make .\nMarketing: But for us it's just like a normal whiteboard .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: But it's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Actually , I think I cannot go with uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: You {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} D doesn't it work ? Maybe someo Maybe {disfmarker} maybe Anna , maybe you can start .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Then he can maybe find out to get his cord right .\nMarketing: I have to draw .\nProject Manager: So um {disfmarker} L Why don't you draw uh {vocalsound} your favourite animal on on th on the white-board .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: M my {disfmarker} my favourite animal . {vocalsound} Sorry this is all tangled up here .\nProject Manager: Oh , I see uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: That's better .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yes . Mm . So draw it . We will try to guess what it is . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} I'm a very bad drawer .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Weird . Um . You're not gonna be able to guess from my drawing . I'm a bad drawer . Okay .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: They're ears , by the way .\nUser Interface: 's a cat .\nMarketing: No . Um close though . Okay so {disfmarker} like a pet animal .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Like a cat .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: It's like a cat , so I guess it's a cat . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No , not a cat though .\nProject Manager: What is this now ?\n",
      "User Interface: Ah you forget about it .\nIndustrial Designer: You're on the knife .\nUser Interface: Yeah , uh I think it's fine . I just don't want to carry it off . Man , this wires , eh ? We need a wireless microphone .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: You know ? Pro specially we should next project we should take l like that .\nMarketing: Okay . So .\nProject Manager: So ,\nMarketing: It's not a cat ,\nProject Manager: that's the cat .\nMarketing: it's a dog .\nProject Manager: Oh .\nUser Interface: So .\nIndustrial Designer: Mael .\nProject Manager: It's a dog .\n",
      "Marketing: Yes .\nProject Manager: So but that's also kind of cat ,\nUser Interface: Oh\nProject Manager: isn't it ?\nUser Interface: the dog doesn't have a tail ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It's got a tail then .\nProject Manager: B bo both predators .\nUser Interface: Yeah , sure , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: I thought so . The dogs have a tail .\nMarketing: So do cats .\nProject Manager: So , thank you . Uh d did you uh work out cord ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: And you guessed cats without a tail . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I think I will go without {disfmarker} without it ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: right ?\nUser Interface: It'll still not extend , right ? It's not up to that .\nMarketing: Okay , there you go . So what favourite characteristics . Uh . Dogs are always friendly and loyal and fun . A horse ?\nUser Interface: It's a horse .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} This is why you're the designer . And I'm marketing . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes . Yes , yes this is {disfmarker} Yes definitely a horse . Yes . Oh very good . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Ah {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I suppose it {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Ah I think you can put that .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . That's it . {vocalsound} A blue and black zebra {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes . Can {disfmarker} you can meet them in Africa , I think . Yes . Very good . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: The very rare blue zebras . Yes .\nUser Interface: {gap} I'll tell to get it off my {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Ma Matthew ?\nUser Interface: Uh ? Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: You got a lot of room here .\nProject Manager: Maybe {disfmarker}\nMarketing: You can probably reach .\nUser Interface: Oh y it's not for that .\nMarketing: No ?\nUser Interface: No .\n",
      "Project Manager: I hope you have some space in your uh the horse of uh Mael .\nUser Interface: Okay . Yeah . So what should I draw ? Mm . He has already to do cat .\nMarketing: I took a dog . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Um . A mouse ?\nProject Manager: This looks likes a cat who has been driven over . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And we should sum up its favourite charas characteristics , right ?\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yes , the moustache .\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: That's {disfmarker} that's definitely a cat .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh yeah . And i Th They like to sleep , that's why you said you they are like this .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It's quite , you know {disfmarker} relaxed situation .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yes , okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} She has the small legs .\nProject Manager: Th thank you , Matthew .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} Thank you , Matthew .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It's a very big rat . Or a very small cat . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Perfect . {vocalsound} Oh a rat , okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes , this is certain uh {disfmarker} some contribution to our project . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm 'kay .\nIndustrial Designer: And you , {gap}\nMarketing: Your turn .\nProject Manager: So . Let's see . Which animal has not been drawn yet . So you've all drawn land animals ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: so why not draw an animal from the water .\nIndustrial Designer: A bird . Okay , in the water .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Ah I don't know what that is . It's a bit {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: It's a bit hard to guess . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Put it colours . Maybe it would help us .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: The cat is going to eat the fish or the rat ?\nIndustrial Designer: With different pen widths .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.$\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh , it's a shark now .\nIndustrial Designer: Ah it's a shark , yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Oh , yes , why not ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Good idea .\nUser Interface: Ah it's a baby shark , it looks to me ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: you know it's going to eat the cat rather than the cat eating the fish , no ?\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nMarketing: Now it's a swordfish .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Why not . A swordfish .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: You have some in {disfmarker} in Australia , right ?\nMarketing: Swordfish .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Um , maybe .\nIndustrial Designer: I dunno .\nMarketing: I've never seen one , no .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh well . Yeah .\nProject Manager: I hope it still works . So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Perfect . So I dunno if we need to spend time on that , actually {vocalsound} But uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: You should go for the next one it seems to me .\nProject Manager: W Well , this uh this tool seemed to work .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , exactly , yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Let's continue to uh {disfmarker} to the real stuff .\nIndustrial Designer: Wow .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um our project uh finance uh thing . Uh when we are {disfmarker} and when w you are uh going to design w uh we must keep in mind that the selling price of the product uh will be about twenty five Euros , so when designing a project uh I also look at you uh Mael , keep in mind uh uh uh {disfmarker} People uh\nUser Interface: Twenty four .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: want to get the feeling this is a twenty five Euro project uh pr um product .\nIndustrial Designer: Per remote control ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah ? Per project .\nProject Manager: Yes . Okay . Um\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: more interesting for our company {vocalsound} of course , p uh profit aim , about fifty million Euro . So we have to sell uh quite a lot of this uh {vocalsound} um things . Uh we will try to uh to get at a international market uh so um it will be I think mainly Europe and uh Northern America ,\nUser Interface: Ah yeah , the sale man , four million .\nProject Manager: maybe some uh Asian countries . Um also important for you all is um the the product uh production cost must be maximal uh twelve uh twelve Euro and fifty cents .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So it's half of the selling price , if I am good in mathematics .\nProject Manager: Yes , of course . Uh um I mean we still have to uh to make a profit , huh ?\nUser Interface: They have to sell at least four million to make a profit {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Of course .\nMarketing: Mm . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You all have to be paid .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Excuse me ?\nUser Interface: Ah we have to make {disfmarker} we have to sell at least four million to make our own profit . Fifty mill\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Oh you're g very good in mathematics .\nMarketing: Yes . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yes , indeed .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Four million .\nProject Manager: So uh well I think w when we are working on the international market , uh in principle it has enough customers\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: uh so when we have a good product we uh we could uh meet this this aim , I think . So , that about finance . And uh now just let have some discussion about what is a good remote control and uh well keep in mind this this first point , it has to be original , it has to be trendy , it has to be user friendly . Um , maybe someone can mention some additional uh prerequisites for a good remote control .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Of course it should have a on off button . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes , well i it should have the the the the expected functionality uh of a remote control .\nMarketing: Mm . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , s and it depends what application you are using it for .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: You might need uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: We wer we were thinking television . Uh .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: We are targ targeting the television set . So ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: you need to record the channels .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} You need to browse the {disfmarker} browse the channels in upward downward way ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Yes , yes . Th th that's very handy I {disfmarker} I always miss it and {disfmarker} on some remote controls that you can go channel up or down ins instead of retyping the number , especially when you have a lot of channels .\nUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm . Mm .\nUser Interface: Uh , and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh just before starting the detailed discussion , maybe we are the marketing guy ? Or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I'm marketing .\nUser Interface: Marketing .\nIndustrial Designer: th So you are the marketing .\nMarketing: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: And you are in the u use user interface uh design .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So just {disfmarker} yeah I wanted to to be sure .\nUser Interface: Sure .\nIndustrial Designer: And I I'm the the industrial designer\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: okay .\nUser Interface: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: Because I I don't know you very well , actually , but yeah .\nUser Interface: I'm Matthew . You know . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Mael .\nUser Interface: Matth s uh\nIndustrial Designer: Happy to meet you .\nMarketing: Anna .\nUser Interface: Anna .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . It's very uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: A and I'm Nanne .\nUser Interface: And um uh Matthew , yeah .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I thi think you know me ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh so yeah uh {disfmarker} Just uh on your web page but uh yeah not uh {disfmarker} not face to face .\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: yeah ? right yeah .\nProject Manager: So . Um {disfmarker} S\nUser Interface: So .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So mm {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: S s\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Are there some other very important things to to do {disfmarker} well ,\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So I\n",
      "Project Manager: to specify in this first phase of of the project . So the browse function , as you m mentioned .\nMarketing: Mm . Yeah . Oth yeah .\nUser Interface: And uh , you'd need the usual ones , like the changing the volume , changing the the channel and then {disfmarker} you uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yes . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Today we have uh um teletext and all those things . Tomorrow you might have a some more functions which might come through that , so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Like what ? Like internet on the on T_V_ ?\nMarketing: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah I_P_O_ or . Now we are looking for television things or I_P_ . For example personal video recorder and all those stuffs are coming up .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm . But we can't really design for something that hasn't been invented yet .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Ah it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's coming up , actually . The personal video recorder and all those things it is coming up .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm , well uh I I think {disfmarker} Uh w y you two should {disfmarker} should , I think , think this over uh w espec what , what functionality .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Actually , yeah\nUser Interface: Let's {disfmarker} Let's take {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: w {vocalsound} Of course , and first before um designing the func well thinking about the functionalities , we need to know what are the user requirements .\nMarketing: Mm . Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um then if they need internet , then we would be able to to p to propose something with uh uh T_V_ over I_P_ .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah . Mm . Yeah . But {disfmarker} Ninety percent of the time , ninety nine percent of the time , people will be using the main functions , the volume , the different channels , so we can have all the fancy things as well but the main controls need to be very obvious and very easy to use .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm mm mm . Keep k keep in mind i it's a {disfmarker} it's a twenty five Euro unit , so uh uh the the very fancy stuff uh w we can leave that out , I think .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: So twenty five Euro you expect a quite , well normal but good functioning user friendly remote control .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Oh in that case you can you always hook up with uh someone who is providing that and you know , {vocalsound} you {disfmarker} you sell their product as well as your product with them , you know . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Mm . So try and get T_V_ manufacturers to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but w w we want to design a new one . {vocalsound} Mm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} No , it's okay , yeah I understand . So we need some numbering buttons , some teletext things\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: and then um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: The {disfmarker} Yeah , the main is browsing . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes , but but but ab about the spec the buttons , the buttons uh that will be on it . I I think we can discuss that in the in the next meeting .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh I would like to get this wrapped up and go to an end of this meeting .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay , we are alread mm . Mm .\nProject Manager: So\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: you know now the basic {disfmarker} the basic things .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: well just {disfmarker} just for the next meeting , um\nUser Interface: L\nProject Manager: well , uh , you wor yes , work on a design , keep it general , I mean {disfmarker} so w we will be still fle flexible with maybe adding some functions . So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Um you will be working on {disfmarker} on technical function design , so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , sure .\nProject Manager: And uh you {disfmarker} and you and uh uh uh well , think about requirements ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n"
    ],
    "length": 5884,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 8,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting started by discussing the functional design of the remote control. Marketing gave the study on user needs and target groups. User Interface gave the presentation on technical effect design and Industrial Designer gave the presentation on working design. Then Project Manager initiated new project requirements brainstorming. The group had agreed on the on-call button design, DVD capability button design, power button design, and denied speech recognition design as well as mouse pad design. They would further discuss the function switch button and its compatibility in the next meeting.",
    "docs": [
      "Marketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay so we'll try to zip through this , since we're short on time . Welcome everybody . Um hope your sessions went well . Um so this is our functional design meeting , we're going to consider um user needs , technical effects , and the working design of our remote control . Um I've been taking meetings on the minute minutes on the meetings {vocalsound} {vocalsound} , and I'll be putting them in the shared documents folder so if there's anything you need to refer to you can find them in there . Um I I'll get the ones up for next time , um they're not finished yet . Right . Um so can we have updates from everyone from what you've worked on just kind of a quick summary of anything interesting that you'd like to share or discuss in this {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: And I can start if you want . Mm .\nProject Manager: sure .\nMarketing: Is there an order ? No .\nProject Manager: Hm ?\nMarketing: We haven't decided on an order .\nProject Manager: No , any any order's fine . Yeah .\nMarketing: First . Okay . Um , how do I put this {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Just uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I'll just put the cable in .\nProject Manager: Oh yeah , sorry .\nMarketing: {gap} Is that it ? Can you see ? {vocalsound} Oh , here . Okay . So what happens it doesn't work ?\n",
      "Project Manager: It sh it takes a few seconds I think .\nIndustrial Designer: You may need to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Who's that ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No .\nIndustrial Designer: But sometimes you have to do it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Is it in the right thing ?\nIndustrial Designer: it's like a three set setting cycle , so press it a couple times , hold down function and then press F_ eight .\nMarketing: Oh wait , um . Uh . You need to help me . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh-huh , and then press function .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: and F_ eight .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Could you just plug it back into hers because she had {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh , wait .\nUser Interface: oh .\nMarketing: That's {disfmarker} is that it ?\nIndustrial Designer: Adjusting .\nProject Manager: Here we are . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: The cable might be a little loose or something . Oh , you got it .\nMarketing: Right here we are .\nProject Manager: Oh . Is it on ?\nMarketing: We're here .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay , um . In order to see what the functional requirements were to be found , um a hundred people were tested in a usability laboratory through just their habits to n know their habits were observed and questionnaires were given out . Um , the findings in in some cases matched what we were talking about . Custome Customers and users don't like the way remote controls look , they don't like the way they feel , they don't think they match their operating behaviour , and an example is what we were talking about , the buttons , they only use ten per cent of the buttons , so later on there's a study of the buttons that they use most and I think we should design according to these buttons . Easy to lose , and R_S_I_ . I don't know what R_S_I_ means . Um the person that did the questionnaire obviously did , I don't have a clue .\n",
      "Project Manager: Hm .\n",
      "Marketing: Um , according to the frequency of use and the relevance of each buttons , I have made a list of the buttons that we should focus on in order of importance . So the most important buttons are those to do with channel selection . They're used about a hundred and sixty times per hour . And um yeah so and and people like to zap a lot apparently , so this is the order . Channel selection , teletext , volume , and power . The other ones are the settings , and they're used less than {disfmarker} you know zero point eight to zero point five times per hour , and this means that I think we can we could have like a a button for all the settings , and then , just one , and then from there go on to the audio on the screen , either on the remote or on the television . Um , about the screen , and speech recognition , some people are more willing than others to actually pay for that . And if we look at the market , f people from well from fifteen to thirty five year old year olds , I don't really know how to describe this , um ninety one to seventy six percent of people in that age range are willing to pay more for this sort of product , while people that are above thirty five years ol um years old go from thirty five percent to eight percent , so people that are sixty five for example wouldn't actually pay for this sort of thing . Um I don't I don't know um what the decision to be made is , but I think that the people that actually do buy remotes m more are those like teenagers and young professionals and um , most likely , but we should discuss this together . {vocalsound} And that's all I have to say about the matter , {vocalsound} um .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: Shall I {disfmarker} what do I do ? Do I give this to someone else ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . Just move right on .\nUser Interface: Right . So get this . Okay so now I need to press F_ eight , what is it ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh function F_ eight .\nMarketing: Function F_ eight .\nUser Interface: 'Kay . What's function ?\nProject Manager: It's the little blue {disfmarker} w it's the one {disfmarker} th\nUser Interface: Oh function , I see it .\n",
      "Project Manager: yeah . Yeah should be {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: There we go . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: It should be {gap} yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay . Um . This my presentation about the uh technical functions design and I basically just tried to focus on um {vocalsound} just what what functions we need and how to make that the best function for the user . So uh and I just sort of like thought about it myself and looked on the internet {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: And okay so basically um {vocalsound} I think i uh like it is really important that we sort of get this done in a user friendly and fashionable way . Um {vocalsound} so I think things like uh you know keeping buttons together that {disfmarker} like close together that um {vocalsound} are used in the same way , uh {vocalsound} or um maybe that making 'em the same colour , keeping the number of buttons the uh leas you know to a minimum , and also things like is it is it um is it uh {disfmarker} can you c y small enough large enough I'm not sure we c I guess we would need to do some research about , I would , about what size is appropriate and that sort of thing , um but basically we need to make sure that it turns on and off the T_V_ . Does it have like capacity to change the channels ? Um {vocalsound} does it do {disfmarker} or do we need to have like functions for cable or V_C_R_ ? And then , is it findable , and uh how do we wanna do that ? And um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I just thought that these two remotes were pretty boring , um I dunno if this will work but {disfmarker} And I think we can find something that's more fun to look at and use than either of those . {vocalsound} Just I mean I like the one on the right better , just because it does have fewer buttons , uh but I mean I think we sh can sort of think about things like um {vocalsound} like colour and you know size , shapes , that sort of thing , to best fit the user . {vocalsound} That concludes my presentation .\n",
      "Project Manager: {gap}\nUser Interface: Okay . You need the little thingy . Ooh .\nIndustrial Designer: How do I um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: S That's on view .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nMarketing: Oh .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay so this is on the working design , which is sort of the uh mechanical functions of the remote , um and the method I used was to basically look at existing designs and incorporate ideas from our last meeting . Um so I think we need two basic functions which is just the basic remote functions , the user can input a channel or volume setting and it will be output to the T_V_ . And also we talked about um a location function where maybe you could press a button on the T_V_ and it would send sort of signal to the remote where it would beep or flash or vibrate or whatever to tell you where the remote is . So the components we need are an energy source to power the remote , um input which would probably be buttons , although um we just talked about voice recognition , processor to take the information , um something to transmit it to the T_V_ , and we also need something on the remote that would receive the location signal and have an output , like possibly a beep or a vibration . And also you need a sender for location signal , which would probably be a separate um thing that we'd have to sell with the remote and people could stick it on their T_V_ or stick it on their wall . And this is just sort of an overview of how the remote works . Power comes from the battery , goes to the chip , um and then it is sent from there to an infrared bulb which is probably the easiest way to send to the T_V_ . And then for the location function , you would have a sender on the T_V_ which would output some sort of signal , um we could use I_R_ but we'd probably wanna use radio instead . That signal would go to a receiver which it would process it , and it would be output in the form of a buzzer or a light lighting up . Um so my personal preferences for how to build the remote would probably be uh , battery for the energy source , that way you wouldn't have to plug it in , um a button pad for input , um we can purchase a pre-made chip which will handle all the processing stuff , I_R_ transmitter to communicate to the T_V_ , that's just sort of standard , um so most T_V_s have an I_R_ receiver . Probably a radio receiver to send out location function and to receive it and I'd probably say a buzzer for the location function on the remote itself . So that concludes my presentation .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: Do you know about like {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm ?\nUser Interface: I dunno , you seem like you know about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , uh I d I was an engineer before I came here .\nUser Interface: Okay . Cool . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . Well thank you everybody . Um {vocalsound} we have {disfmarker} we'll discuss that and then I just wanna mention some new project requirements that came in . Um , teletext is apparently outdated , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} due to internet popularity , so that's off the list . Um ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: also our remote should be used only for television , um , no extra internet kinda fancy things , just the remote and the television . Um and also we need to incorporate our corporate image onto this , so um the phrase is , we put fashion in electronics , so let's be fashionable I guess . Um if we have something {disfmarker} I mean silver and and gold or yellow are our colours , so if we had a like a kind of silver one like you saw , and yellow writing , something like that . Okay . Um . So we need to make some decisions on the remote control functions . Um , yeah . {vocalsound} Do {disfmarker} Let's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I guess we should yeah make some kind of brainstorming , see what we can {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Like in terms of\nMarketing: How it looks or {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: how it looks , or like what it does ?\nProject Manager: wha what {disfmarker} um {vocalsound} well probably our target group and how it's gonna going to appeal to our target group and I dunno the the s\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: the buttons and what it does and that sort of thing . So .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . Okay . So {disfmarker} Is our target group then people {disfmarker} so do we wanna go ahead and design this thing with the finder button ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I think that seems to {disfmarker} yeah . Mm .\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: It's easy to implement .\nUser Interface: Okay . So the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {gap} the the buzzer you mean ,\nUser Interface: yeah , yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Locator .\nMarketing: yeah , for sure , yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: So then our target age group would be the nineteen to thirty five range ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , teenagers and young professionals .\nUser Interface: what was it ?\nMarketing: Well that's for speech recognition .\nProject Manager: Oh , uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Well {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Oh .\nMarketing: And screen . That's only for speech recognition and screen .\nIndustrial Designer: I was thinking about that but uh I mean speech recognition is really hard to programme ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and also , if the T_V_ is on it's making sound and the people on the T_V_ are talking , and if somebody says like one , then the T_V_'s gonna switch itself to channel one ,\nMarketing: Yeah yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: or {disfmarker} it seems like a silly ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I mean {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I'm not sure how you would implement it .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I just put the values {vocalsound} in .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: And if if you consider our budget , it probably {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But um the screen is the same as what , {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: It's a cool idea but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: if you consider our budget , to h have speech recognition programmed in every single remote might be a little pricey .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , I'm happy with that .\nProject Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Right so um {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Hu yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Completely .\nUser Interface: Okay so are we gonna have just some kind of a {disfmarker} like we'll have the buzzer on the som like on the T_V_ itself .\nIndustrial Designer: Well you would have to have a button on a T_V_ or on your wall or some place {gap} since the T_V_ already has power .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah you click the button , it's gonna send out a signal , and I was thinking , I_R_ is line of sight , so unless the remote is like actually in front of the T_V_ it's not gonna work , um so probably like a radio signal like on a on a cell phone .\nUser Interface: Okay . Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Sends out a signal and then the the remote hears the signal and so it beeps probably .\nUser Interface: Alright .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: So you you'd need like a separate base for that or like something you can {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: It would have to be sold separately because if the sender's on the remote then you'd have to find the remote first to click the button to find the remote {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: right . Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: So do you plug it in the T_ {disfmarker} you plug it in T_V_ , this thing ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it'd probably just stick it on your T_V_ so if you need to find the remote , click the button .\nMarketing: Okay . Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: So it's now like a two-part thing .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , so it would be a two part package .\nUser Interface: Okay . Alright .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: So we get to design that too .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Make it fashionable . Um , okay .\nProject Manager: So do you think even though we're not talking about speek speech recognition our target group should still be teenagers and young professionals .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I think so .\nMarketing: Yeah . Just there .\nProject Manager: Huh . Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm . Are we um should that thing be on the {vocalsound} thing to put the {disfmarker} you s you talking about a home for it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Do you still want to build a little thing next to the telly or to p hang on the wall or shall we leave that for now ?\nProject Manager: We probably leave that . I mean I guess one takes care of the other , like um if you can yeah if you can call it then it's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Then it can live anywhere .\nProject Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay . For the {disfmarker} so you have that button , that {disfmarker} so there's {disfmarker} is there a light or shall we leave just have a radio ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um on the T_V_ or on the phone ?\nMarketing: Are we just having a radio ? On the phone .\nIndustrial Designer: Um it seemed like a {disfmarker} a beep seemed the most reasonable to me ,\nUser Interface: T\nMarketing: You don't need a light . Yeah yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I think that's what the phone has ,\nMarketing: Yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I mean when you need to find your phone , you just have someone call it {vocalsound} and it starts ringing somewhere and then you can figure out that it's in the couch or wherever .\nProject Manager: And like if the if the phone's under the couch , you might not see the light , so\nMarketing: You can hear it's under the couch yeah .\nProject Manager: {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: So i Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Um , {vocalsound} {gap} So need the other buttons . So we have this {disfmarker} mm .\nProject Manager: So I mean the two remotes that you had shown r I don't remember who showed them {vocalsound} , yeah you you did um ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That was that was me .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: they're {disfmarker} I mean one looked like it was for V_C_R_ type thing , and the other looked like just television .\n",
      "User Interface: I think w I think they're both sort of just like general remo they're both general remotes .\nProject Manager: Oh really . 'Cause that that is something we have to decide , is whether we want to have V_C_R_ capabilities .\nUser Interface: And uh\nIndustrial Designer: Does anyone know if V_C_R_s are the same across {disfmarker} international ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: They're not {disfmarker} no .\nMarketing: They're not , no .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , so you'd need like a whole different set of buttons for everybody's V_C_R_s .\nUser Interface: S\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , that's right , yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It not V_H_S_ here ?\nProject Manager: But D_V_D_ probably is .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , other than that region and coding thing .\nUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And and if we're if we're targeting young professionals and teenagers , I mean it's gonna be D_V_D_ type , that's the the technology these days .\nMarketing: But V_C_R_s {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , for sure .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . So . Okay , let's see if I can {disfmarker} I think still though , it shouldn't be that hard to take {disfmarker} like just reduce the number of buttons you know ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: like 'cause if you just have like one menu button , that works like with a you know , or you can just kind of scroll through the options u that come up on the T_V_ .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Well for sure we need the um {disfmarker} I think we can just design the channels ? I mean power's just a button , and it's not used that much ,\n",
      "Project Manager: S\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: s and it's usually that red\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: and I think it's quite nice to keep it like red .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: You know , I've seen some remotes that {disfmarker} where you just hold one , like if you hold one down it's it's a different colour than the other buttons but that turns it on . So you don't actually have a separate power button , it's just {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh okay , yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: It seems like that would be hard though .\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I mean , like because unless you know {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It might be confusing . Yeah .\nUser Interface: yeah . Just 'cause I wouldn't {disfmarker} I would probably pick it up and just be like uh why is there no on button . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Besides you like to be able to go power .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I never think to hold something down . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} I have the power {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . B {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: I guess . So we definitely want a power button and numbers . Right .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Well even um iPod thing {vocalsound} {vocalsound} , like um , I don't know if people like this but if you want to reduce the number , of buttons , instead of having like one to nine , have a sort of\nUser Interface: That sort of like joystick flat touch thing , yeah .\nMarketing: scrolling {disfmarker} I don't know .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . Because people li seem {disfmarker} now the iPod's out people seem to like this thing that there's no {disfmarker} Know you don't have one two three four five {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah . I think that's an interesting idea , 'cause it's cool ,\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: it's it's funny like you f like I just {disfmarker} I don't have an iPod but like I , you know , I just like started messing around with one of my friend's the other day , and you just sort of and {disfmarker} it's funny how you pick it up and you just figure out how to use it quite easily , like it's not that hard , you know .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah , it's just {disfmarker} and it's one thing which has everything .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , and it is {disfmarker} yeah . It is really {disfmarker} but do you need a screen then , do you have to have a screen then ?\nMarketing: Well can't it tell the {disfmarker} like can't you {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , you can have the number going around in the corner .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Okay .\nMarketing: you can have the number on the telly going like one two three four five once you scroll and then {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah . Okay so we have this like scrolling sort of button .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh that's gonna {disfmarker} Is that like on on a mouse pad where like kind of {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Like a disc . Yeah . Yeah . It's like {disfmarker} it's just like the same technology as a mouse pad .\nProject Manager: okay . I've never used one . No .\nMarketing: It's like l this {disfmarker} like that , and then you do that .\nProject Manager: Okay . Okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah and then .\n",
      "Marketing: And then you can have um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if you actually just want to zap , you can have like a thing {vocalsound} like that , and that , and then it can just be plus and minus .\nUser Interface: Okay . So like it's like a little part of the circle that {disfmarker} Or it {disfmarker} oh so it's just a region of the circle that you can {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , you can {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well i\nUser Interface: zap .\nMarketing: Yeah , click o actually click on to have {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: We could we could even have four buttons , like , if that's the if that's the mouse , you could have the volume and the channel changers just like on that as well .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . So volume could be like the top it and the bottom {disfmarker} So do you need to {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Doesn't it rotate though ,\nUser Interface: okay .\nIndustrial Designer: so it'll be moving around .\nUser Interface: Well y you have to you have to like be able to change the function of it to like {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: What do you mean the function ?\nUser Interface: I mean like okay , 'cause so {disfmarker} I dunno , I guess {disfmarker} Okay {disfmarker} so when you g scroll your thumb like around it , it'll s like say you're go you're going clockwise . That that means you're gonna go up the channels , and then you scroll the other way and it'll go down .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: But then {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: so if you wanna switch to the {disfmarker} to u do you have to switch to a function where like y so you're either in that mode or you're in the mode where like it just has like the four like you know this is channel that way , that's that way and volume is up and down .\nMarketing: Yeah but it knows for some reason .\nUser Interface: It just {disfmarker}\nMarketing: The iPod knows .\nUser Interface: It just kno {vocalsound} the iPod knows . {vocalsound} S\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} If it works on an iPod then it works .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Huh .\nUser Interface: Yeah . So you just you just can either do this or like you can just touch it if you want .\nIndustrial Designer: I don't have one .\nMarketing: Well for the volume you have to press the middle , and then go up .\nUser Interface: Okay . That's what I mean . Okay . Okay so you have to like press this middle region and then you can scroll up , go up and down .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nProject Manager: So it's like holding {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: And then {disfmarker} well if you do that it goes , but if you {disfmarker} like that makes more sense 'cause there's already ones with up and down here , that I've seen .\nProject Manager: You can {disfmarker} o And you you {disfmarker} is there an extra actual button ? Or are you actually {disfmarker} you're just using the mouse to go up and down .\nMarketing: Well what you {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Like {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's like a b\n",
      "Marketing: for the iPod you press an {disfmarker} w right if you're on the channel let's say , then you press on the middle and then if you do that again the volume goes up , and if you do that it goes down .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Right . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: But if you wanna keep it with volume here and here , I'm pretty sure {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well I mean if if you're gonna this for channels , right , then y wouldn't the volume need to be separate somehow ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Like you could just have {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I don't know ,\nProject Manager: Oh , like {disfmarker}\nMarketing: you could click and then have it up and down ,\nProject Manager: Oh you could actually {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Like {disfmarker}\nMarketing: but I think {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I think we can go on the fact that it does just work with the iPod .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} .\n",
      "User Interface: But the only thing is like , iPods are so expensive , like , it has to be {disfmarker} is that part of {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Is that what makes them expensi I think it's all of {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I don't think so .\nUser Interface: yeah , I dunno , I dunno .\nProject Manager: they have so much memory though , that's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: You don't think so ? Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: I don't think it's the wheel dealy .\n",
      "Marketing: I think it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . I think it's the uh h it's their capabili I mean they {disfmarker} it can hold what like five thousand songs or something .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Yeah . I'm thinking we could {disfmarker} if if we're hav So ba I mean but an iPod just has that circle thing you know .\nIndustrial Designer: And they're re-programmable aren't they ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: You can put on your songs and then put on a different set ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: that's probably why they're expensive , they're like little computers .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: S\nUser Interface: Yeah . Well like since it just has the circle thing , you could make it a qui a kind of cool shape , like it could be a cool sort of you know , because it could be circular , you know , or something weird like that , just {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah . Well it could just be simple instead of being a l mass . Because , the other thing , I didn't tell you all my presentation {vocalsound} , is that people find it {disfmarker} find that it's a big waste of time to have to learn how to use your remote\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: and that's another thing they complained about .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Um , what other buttons were there ? Volume {disfmarker} oh we've ts just said that .\nUser Interface: So okay .\nMarketing: Channel selection .\n",
      "User Interface: This is just for T_V_ , it's not for {disfmarker} or it is {disfmarker} does need to be compatible with {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I {disfmarker} A D_V_D_ is simple , you just have play , pause , eject ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: You know actually our our new project requirements , I'm not sure if they meant o onl use only for television as in not for D_V_D_ or just not internet type things .\nUser Interface: So how do you switch {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Menu .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and menu maybe . Oh yeah .\nProject Manager: So I'll I'll check that and update you on the next {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay . So like if we had that {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But we'll hold off on that 'cause {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: But s yeah uh .\nMarketing: But D_V_D_ players usually have their own remote .\nUser Interface: That's true , yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So , I know I'm not c really clear on what {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But it's cool to have it all on one , because you wanna turn it on then you wanna turn up the volume , and then you wanna go to the menu , so you don't wanna switch .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm . Mm .\nUser Interface: So you'd have to have like {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: I think {disfmarker} you would have to have like a function switch button , you know somewhere so like you can {disfmarker} you're either on T_V_ , you're on D_V_D_ or you're on V_C_R_ , or you're like . So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well but D_V_D_ is only like four buttons .\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nMarketing: Yeah , it is only fun\nUser Interface: but I mean like to switch the fun so like to switch the function of the little circle disc , the touch pad .\nProject Manager: But i Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Oh . But I think the circle only does {disfmarker} channel isn't applicable to D_V_D_ really 'cause you don't wanna {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah but it {disfmarker} it would be {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: but volume is and volume is actually controlled on the T_V_ so you don't have to switch .\n",
      "User Interface: So {disfmarker} but I'm saying like , does it make sense to have like some kind of a button , so like you're {disfmarker} if you're on T_V_ , like you can switch channels , but then if uh if you're on D_V_D_ then like the channel bu like the the region of the disc that was for channels is for like switching to different tracks or s you know , to different {disfmarker} I mean do we need to think about that ,\nProject Manager: Um , yeah , let's think about it\nUser Interface: that like {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes we can try that .\n"
    ],
    "length": 7784,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 9,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "After Project Manager first went over the previous meeting and summarized the meeting agenda, Inudstrial Designer started the prototype presentation of the remote control.  The remote control should be curved with scroll and push buttons, made by smooth plastic or spongy rubber. Marketing presented the evaluation criteria of the remote control in terms of the user requirements and the trends. The remote control shall be fancy because it was heavily reliant on appearance instead of pure functionality. Finally, they confirmed the components they planned to use under the restrict of finance.",
    "docs": [
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um almost , there's one more thing I have to get out of the {disfmarker} I have to make sure that this attachment will open .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I keep forgetting whether I've done this . {gap} .\n",
      "Project Manager: Ah-ha . Okay . We'll open that when the time is right . In the meantime {disfmarker} Closing things down , okay . Let's see what this thing does . Does it come up together or disappear one of them or what ? Ah , we came up together , we're good . Okay . Are we ready to start ? Okay . It's now quarter of four . This is a f another forty minute one so it will end at four twenty five . Okay . Right . Our agenda is , as before , for me to open the meeting , for us to go over the previous minutes , then for the two of you to present your prototype and for you to g um Sarah present the evaluation criteria . We then have a finance aspect , which is a spreadsheet , an Excel spreadsheet . And I know what you're all thinking of , oh my , um because we're only given a forty minute time period to get it all in , including the production evaluation . So we're going to make a very fast track . Okay . Um and as you can see that's what we do next on this thing . So the first thing I have to do is close this so that I can get to {disfmarker} Where is it ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Red .\nProject Manager: I need to open mine . Not the agenda .\nMarketing: Agenda three .\nProject Manager: No that th I want the minutes from the previous {disfmarker} minutes .\nMarketing: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: That should be there , minutes . Yeah . Okay . Uh from meeting three , is it alright with you if I don't switch it to show , just use it as is ? 'Cause this way I can more easily flip it . Okay , um obviously all of us were here for the last meeting , we reviewed the previous minutes before that , um each of you made your presentations . {vocalsound} Um we discussed the various possibilities based on what was presented in those presentations . The market trend of fruit and veg , mm spongy , uh fancy and elegant more than technologically innovative and that more than easy . Um we decided chip on print would be used . Um we would use plastic with a rubber casing , I think was the consensus , powered by kinetic energy . There was no decision made on the curvatures or double curvature or straight . Um perhaps the prototype will give us an inkling of that . Um looking like a scroll , but it's really a push button technology , excuse my spelling um that was actually in use , that is uh behind the scenes is push button which we uh according to Kate have a very good uh grasp on doing that in production . Um we decided that separate fashionable covers covering your fruit and veg might be a separate product that could be suggested to management . Um and as suggested um yellow with black buttons with the company logo , a slogan and image might be a good idea based on the requirements that have been provided to us . Um we did have a few production issues and coordination of the various bits and we had some conflict of ideas and cost constraints and we ran out of time . Um we had to follow that up and prepare for the last one . And uh we closed as it ran out of time . Is that a fair presentation of what happened ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yep .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nProject Manager: Okay , back to this meeting . Um we're down to the prototype presentation .\nIndustrial Designer: Ta-da .\nUser Interface: Alright .\nProject Manager: Over to you .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nUser Interface: Well .\nProject Manager: Ooh , two .\nUser Interface: Yeah , well you see , each made one , we didn't have enough yellow dough .\nProject Manager: Ah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: This is the one that I made .\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\n",
      "User Interface: It is uh curved , easy to hold , hand-held , nice and small with big easy buttons . This is like a scroll , but they are push buttons and they enter {disfmarker} takes you into the different menus . Of course we need someone who's experienced with the television {gap} . I mean this is the infrared thing that's gonna zap at the television . Uh I'm not quite sure how to make that , but I'm sure it will work . Uh this is on off switch , 'cause I think we do need that , and I think it gives it a nice balance .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\n",
      "User Interface: And it's gonna have the logo imprinted on it uh in there .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Um as for what it's actually made of {disfmarker} well the function of these buttons is up , down , left and right {vocalsound} in the different menus .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh position , I presume that just means right right on it , easy to see . The main feature of it is just a simple design , simple , lack of uh buttons all over the place . Right ? {vocalsound} Form curved , kind of smooth , hand-held , makes it feel nice to hold . Uh material , I think Kate's gonna tackle that quite a bit , but I think we have two different options , because we did make a another one , which wa uh is in the shape of banana , it's just {disfmarker} if you can imagine this as yellow with black buttons , like just like this but in the shape of a banana ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: which is also nice and easy to hold and feels good and has a similar sort of scroll push button technology , just a slightly different design .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Also with on off switch and infrared {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh I had envisioned it in hard smooth plastic . So like uh {disfmarker} well , I dunno , what's it like ? I guess like an existing remote control , but molded and smooth . Whereas otherwise we'd thought , like with this one {disfmarker} or mix and match , just we were gonna see what you thought , the {disfmarker} uh a more spongy rubber cover with spongy buttons . So we have the two options we can follow , either the smooth hard plastic or the spongy rubber , depending on cost restraints . And what we well , what conclusion we reach when we discuss it . {vocalsound} Uh material {disfmarker} yeah , that's what I have to say about material . Can I scroll down on there and see what else {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Well colour , I think {disfmarker} I definitely have a preference towards bright yellow with black buttons , because that's the company colours , but if anybody's got any other suggestions , I'm quite willing to consider them as well . {vocalsound} So , it just depends what you think about these ideas and if I'm {disfmarker} yeah , maybe , Kate , you better say what you think about them .\nIndustrial Designer: Um well I don't have very much to add . Um the the case {disfmarker} oops , that's the uh on off button just come off our prototype .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: The the case can be either um spongy rubber or hard plastic . We're not absolutely sure about a combination of the two , but it can be either of those . We have the technology to do that . Um and as for the the actual components um , uh Steph just said this is a {disfmarker} quite a cheap device to manufacture . We have simple rubber push buttons um which provide all the functionality we need . Um the um {vocalsound} the diode that actually does the um infrared is at the end , it's the stalk of the banana , or it's just the thing at the end of this version . Um so that's for material . Colour , well uh Steph's the expert on colour . Um we we don't have any particular restrictions on that . Yeah , I think that's all we've got to say really .\n",
      "User Interface: I thin as for as for the fruit or organic theme , I guess this one is obviously fruit shaped .\nIndustrial Designer: A banana .\nUser Interface: This one has n banana , yeah . This one has no obvious connections to fruit , but because it's round and molded , it kinda makes you think sort of organic , touchy-feely , kiddie , it's more like {disfmarker} yeah , you'd expect it to be like a child's sorta toy remote control instead of a real one , which I quite like that sort of image . 'Cause it's very big and chunky and child-friendly and\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Would you care to examine the prototypes , see how they feel in the hand ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Hold them , you see , you know . Curvature , is it to your liking ?\nProject Manager: Oh I see , the on-off's in the back .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , that's so that your index finger automatically goes straight to it .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} If you don't wanna tire out your thumbs after all .\nProject Manager: And then you can use your thumb . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And it was partly we thought the design looked better ,\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . {gap}\nProject Manager: I could see this thing , unless it's reinforced , having a problem with the you know {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Breaking ,\nProject Manager: yeah .\nUser Interface: oh right . {vocalsound} Well you see , that's why hard plastic would be quite a good thing for it , because then it'd just be rigid .\nMarketing: I like the fact that on both of them the keys play such a prominent role .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , {gap} we really like we really like that design ,\nMarketing: It's really kind of a {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: I mean it looks just like a logo , that arrangement of the keys . Like a c like a compass point , you know ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: just up , down , left and right , and we think we could make that quite a good feature . And it's like the the iPod scroll wheel , {vocalsound} but better .\nMarketing: Yeah . But it's also like texting ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah , yeah ,\nMarketing: you don't {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nUser Interface: I mean it {disfmarker} that's what it makes me think of , mobile phones ,\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I was try I was thinking , moving your thumb like this , what does that remind me of ?\nIndustrial Designer: And it's a very simple design ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: It's texting .\nIndustrial Designer: there's not a lot to wrong , the components are cheap to make .\nMarketing: It's also in terms of um being lost it's it's quite {disfmarker} it looks quite different .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: You know , I I d I have several {disfmarker} four remotes , and they all look the same until you get up close and you have to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: you know , this is really identifiable .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I mean the thing is we do need to develop our technology of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean actually how to program the menus and what sort of , you know , text box is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: but we do definitely think that it's a viable option .\nProject Manager: Okay . The next item is evaluation .\nMarketing: No , okay .\nProject Manager: Uh if that's {disfmarker} if you're finished .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh yeah , we're finished .\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: shall I take your uh power ?\nProject Manager: Oh sorry .\nMarketing: Oh .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Try again .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . This is going to be a heavily interactive evaluation , and the method here is to evaluate the new remote control in terms of the user requirements and the hot trends introduced by the marketing department . So , this means we're going to go over the priorities that were raised by uh the consumers a as well as incorporate all of our insight into this uh evaluation exercise . So I'm going to go and use the whiteboard , and I've made a list of criteria to look at , and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave this up as the last thing , but for the evaluation it's going to be one is true and seven is false , going over these different criteria , so one true seven false and I'm gonna now use the um the board . Okay . So um fancy , technologically innovative , easy to use , trendy , buttons , excess buttons , good buttons , ugly , sellable , and other . And in fact I hope that uh you all introduce some additional terms , because these are things that um have been brought up , some of them seem rather close ,\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , what about price , is that gonna go on there as well ? Price of materials .\nMarketing: like they overlap . Mm , yeah , price .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: We'll put price up at the top .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Not that we actually know anything about it ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: but we can we can pretend .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Well we will soon , unfortunately .\nMarketing: Um Okay , so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Come on .\nMarketing: Did you say {gap} ?\n",
      "Project Manager: No , {gap} .\nMarketing: Uh okay , so wha how do we feel in terms of is this fancy ?\nUser Interface: It depends what what you mean by fancy really , 'cause when I think of fancy , I think of it's got lots of extra sort of fripperies and , you know , like baroque curliness and {disfmarker} which\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: I'd call these quite uh minimalist ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , a plain , simple , clean design .\n",
      "User Interface: simple and plain , but I mean I do see what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it is heavily reliant on appearance instead of pure functionality ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: so in that respect it is quite fancy .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} yeah , so in that respect {disfmarker} I think we'll go with that respect .\nUser Interface: I think just maybe we need a different word other than fancy , I'd say maybe aesthetic .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well we have got s trendy further down ,\nProject Manager: Elegant .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Elegant .\nMarketing: Elegant .\nIndustrial Designer: Elegant , I don't know if I'd call them elegant .\nMarketing: Yeah , no these aren't the exact terms that the um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {gap} like stylish or aesthetic .\nIndustrial Designer: Stylish , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . Elegant . We're gon let's use elegant , although the the the people , the word on the street is is {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Fancy .\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} N that {disfmarker} um\n",
      "User Interface: Did you just break the pen ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: yeah uh {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} is fancy . So let's let's take it to the next level .\nUser Interface: Well d we'll just call it fancy then .\nMarketing: Well okay , so in terms of elegant , fancy . we'll call it E_F_ um , do we do we think that perhaps {disfmarker} and maybe we should say the yellow ? Should we go with the yellow in terms of {disfmarker} I think that's a really superior {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , I think we n we need to {disfmarker}\nMarketing: they're both {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: they're both yellow with black buttons , it's just that we didn't have any more dough to represent uh that ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: but if you can just imagine banana shape with these bits as black .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So what we re really need to decide is whether we want the actual banana shape or just a a purely blob or some sort of abstraction in between the two\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: that isn't {disfmarker} that is more curved , like a banana , but that isn't actually recognisable as a banana , you know , with the grooves and the stalk and stuff ,\nMarketing: As a banana .\nUser Interface: so .\nMarketing: I think that many of us are abstract enough to look at the yellow one and say we'll call it the banana .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: And of the two I really like I m I like the banana ,\nProject Manager: The chunk .\nMarketing: but I I do like the chunk .\nUser Interface: So that's maybe not something we have to decide just right now , is it .\n",
      "Marketing: No ,\nUser Interface: Just somewhere a long the scale of in between these two .\nMarketing: but I mean in terms {disfmarker} we have to evaluate one of them . Unless {disfmarker} do you guys wanna evaluate both ?\nProject Manager: I think between the two , somewhere between the two is true .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , I'd {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's more true than false , about a two .\nMarketing: Okay . So we say true . {vocalsound} technologically innovative .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I d I don't think that's what we're aiming at with this concept .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I think we're using simple components that are gonna be robust but not particularly innovative .\nMarketing: So we'll say {disfmarker} we'll say uh false . Easy to use .\nIndustrial Designer: Very .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} One ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: is that inappropriate ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay . Oh , pardon me . Um\nProject Manager: Trendy .\nUser Interface: Oh yes .\n",
      "Marketing: trendy , s {vocalsound} and I say specifically spongy fruity .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Well , maybe only a two or a three then , 'cause it's no we still haven't decided about specific sponginess or specific {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: We have the worry about how robust it will be if it's it's curved as a banana but spongy .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: I think {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , I don't really think that's gonna work ,\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nUser Interface: but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay , so two ? Um\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Excess buttons .\nMarketing: are there excess buttons ?\nProject Manager: No .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} That is false .\nIndustrial Designer: So that's false . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Um {vocalsound} good , well designed buttons , intuitive buttons .\nProject Manager: Better , more intuitive buttons , yes .\nMarketing: True . Ugly .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nUser Interface: No . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: No .\n",
      "Marketing: People don't respond well to ugly . Sellable , uh quirky , you know , something people {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I think they're different , aren't they ?\nUser Interface: Well it is quite it is quite quirky I think .\nMarketing: like oh ,\nProject Manager: I like it .\nMarketing: yeah . Yeah , I do too .\nUser Interface: It could be quite a good brand , like a good little object .\nMarketing: Oh yeah . And I was I was thinking of other things um in terms of uh could we say it's cost saving ? With the {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Oh , we also need tho think about the energy . Is it the kinetic energy ?\nMarketing: Yeah , with the energy .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: If it's {disfmarker} it is gonna be environmentally friendly with the kinetic energy .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: It is going to be kinetic ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: we'll c we'll say it's a cost saving enviro . Yeah , Uh so yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah , but we haven't completely developed that side of it yet , so we're not completely sure about that ,\n",
      "Marketing: Well {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: but yeah .\nMarketing: you're still in the Play-Doh stage .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Anything else ? Including price , do you have any idea about price or other features ?\nIndustrial Designer: Well I think our instinct is that it should be pretty cheap to develop . We haven't got a lot of expensive components in there .\nProject Manager: Yes , the instinct says true .\nMarketing: Okay . So true one or should I go to two or three ?\nIndustrial Designer: I'd put it at one I think , but {disfmarker} I dunno , what do you {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: I would say maybe a two ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: 'cause we still {disfmarker} we need to uh get somebody in who is good with the programming for the menus and things .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , true ,\nUser Interface: I mean it's not just like {disfmarker} I mean it's not like ev you know , on a normal chunky remote every button res I mean means something different ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , that's not a cheap thing to get .\nIndustrial Designer: it might be the {disfmarker} yeah , yeah , true . True .\n",
      "User Interface: whereas this one has only got the four buttons and they all {disfmarker} they mean everything , depending on what menu you're in .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , that's a good point .\nUser Interface: {gap} uh we need somebody to develop that .\nMarketing: Um other ? Anything else you guys can thing of ? And I'm gonna actually change a couple of these so then I'm gonna {disfmarker} instead of ugly I'm gonna say it's attractive and then make that true , so that {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: 'cause I have to do an average . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right .\nMarketing: And then um excess buttons .\nUser Interface: Just putting no excess buttons .\nMarketing: Exactly . Wow we're doing really well . Yeah , be you know ,\nUser Interface: As for {disfmarker}\nMarketing: so it doesn't ruin the polarity .\nUser Interface: see if we're technologically innovative , I'd say it is quite innovative , because there aren't really many that have this menu idea instead of all the extra buttons .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: I mean I know we're not doing anything involving internet or speech recognition but but we are at the upper end of the push button market . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or L_C_D_ . Yeah . Well if you g uh let me know if if any of these {disfmarker} um if you if you all can think of any other um thing to change here {disfmarker} if you th if you think I should change the innovative or add other features . If not I'll average those .\nProject Manager: I think we're good .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . We're a little over halfway through the meeting\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: and the next big thing is the finance . Okay .\nMarketing: Um okay , how about if I uh pass this back to you\nProject Manager: Yep .\nMarketing: and I'll uh figure out the average here .\nProject Manager: Right .\nMarketing: Thank you for everyone's help with that .\n",
      "Project Manager: Right . And as you can see it says the same thing , it had not lost itself , thank Goodness . And we're going to raise what's called a sp a spreadsheet that they provided to me . Um and it says fill in the number of components you plan to use in your device .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Hand dynamo , battery , kinetic , solar cells . Okay .\nUser Interface: Well , just kinetic then , {gap} .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um what's a hand dynamo ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: That was the crank , wind-up crank on the side . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's the wind-up .\nProject Manager: Oh\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: shoot , forget that . Kinetic is um {disfmarker} and how many of those will we need per {disfmarker} we only need one .\nIndustrial Designer: Just one .\nProject Manager: Okay . Electronic simple chip on print , and we'll need one of those .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh uh yeah , I think we can do it all with simple {disfmarker} Just checking that . Yeah , simple , 'cause we've just got push buttons , so we can do it all with simple which is the ch should be the cheapest .\nProject Manager: Okay , and we only need one of those .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nProject Manager: Okay , the case will be uncurved and flat or a single curve or a double curve . It looks like it {gap} single curve , 'cause of th the chunkiness . It's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , that that one is single curve ,\n",
      "Project Manager: that's uh uh one .\nIndustrial Designer: isn't it ? Um do we have\nProject Manager: And that's\nUser Interface: What does double curved mean , I don't understand .\nIndustrial Designer: I I think you {disfmarker} it means you reverse the curve .\nProject Manager: uh that's the the one that goes like this .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , I do I don't think we need that for either of them ,\nUser Interface: Oh no , we don't need that . No .\nProject Manager: Right .\nIndustrial Designer: you can do a banana in single curve ,\nProject Manager: No ,\n",
      "User Interface: Single-curved , I'd say .\nProject Manager: single curve .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , case material supplements . Plastic , wood , rubber , titanium , special colour .\nUser Interface: I\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I just wanna say plastic .\nProject Manager: We had the special colour . And did we say plastic ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , can we do some what ifs , 'cause it may {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I mean I I still quite like the idea of combining plastic and rubber myself ,\nMarketing: One , two , three , four , five , six .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but it depends on the cost , I guess .\nProject Manager: Okay . We'll come back , if we can , to the rubber being added at the moment , that's where we are . Interface button {disfmarker} push button interface . That's what we're using ,\nUser Interface: It's just button .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: isn't it ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Do we need to say how many buttons , or\nProject Manager: Whoops , don't want that , not yet . Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: or d is it just one ?\n",
      "Project Manager: No , it just says push button interface . Button supplements , they'll be in a special colour of black .\nIndustrial Designer: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: And the buttons {disfmarker} Wha what is the buttons made of , rubber ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh they'll be rubber , yep .\nProject Manager: So we need one of them . And are they any special form ?\nUser Interface: Well yeah , like the compass point one .\nIndustrial Designer: Actually , does tha does special material mean that plastic is not a special material ? 'Cause I think they can be plastic .\nProject Manager: 'Cause the rate we're going we can put the rubber on top .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . They could be plastic , we don't have to have rubber buttons ,\nProject Manager: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: because we haven't got a double curved case .\nUser Interface: Yeah , they could be plastic .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Um let's put that rubber in then , of the case material supplement .\nIndustrial Designer: It's just one , isn't it ?\nProject Manager: Uh we only need one of them . Um and the total cost has been calculated as nine Pounds twenty out of the twelve and a half we were allowed .\nIndustrial Designer: What , we're in .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: We're in . {vocalsound} That's us .\nIndustrial Designer: More profit .\nUser Interface: Great .\nProject Manager: Okay , I'm going to save this into our {vocalsound} desktop , project documents . Okay . As our project document bit .\nIndustrial Designer: Do you do you need to double click on that to open it ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . There we are . That's the only Excel document that will be in there , so it's there for all of us . Okay , so , are they under twelve fifty ? Yes , go to the project evaluation , next slide .\nUser Interface: Yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: Right . Um the project process , satisfaction with , for example , the room for creativity . Yeah , leadership , teamwork ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Sure . Yes .\nProject Manager: means , of having whiteboard , the digital pens and all that kind of good things .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: And Play-Doh .\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , the Play-Doh was best , I thought . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah well , 'cause I mean it's so hard to describe what you mean just with words and pointing at photographs and saying , well we quite want this , but imagine it rounder . So much better just to go and , you know , this is it , this is what we want . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} So , we went over all those things and we're satisfied with all the above .\nMarketing: Yep .\nProject Manager: Um did we find any new ideas ?\n",
      "Marketing: I think with the marketing element of uh fruit shaped I I mean I {disfmarker} that really opened my eyes .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Spongy .\nMarketing: I I only speak for myself though .\nUser Interface: And I'd never heard of the kinetic energy before ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: so . Good work as a design team ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , I think we're a good team actually .\nUser Interface: because we {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I'm not sure all the wires are really great though .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we actually worked well as a group .\nIndustrial Designer: I thought so .\nProject Manager: Right . Are the costs within the budget ? Yes .\nUser Interface: Oh yes .\nMarketing: Yes .\nProject Manager: Is the project evaluated ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nMarketing: I can give you a number ,\nIndustrial Designer: hang on , Oh we haven't heard . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\n",
      "Marketing: um it's uh {disfmarker} the average evaluation score is one point eight eight , so it means w you know , I can I can spell it out . There were six true or ones , four um pardon me , two s almost true or close to true , so that was four points , and then uh one false , seven points , so seventeen divided by nine {disfmarker} we're between one and two . I would say that's ex excellent in terms of uh ho how much we adhere to the ideals of the uh market place .\nUser Interface: Yeah . And the the only false one is because we've chosen to keep a simple old technology ,\n",
      "Marketing: To maintain old technology , exactly .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: which if it works perfectly well I see no point in improving on if it works ,\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Absolutely , and it's kept us within budget .\nUser Interface: so . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yes .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So we do count as I think excellent or one .\nProject Manager: Alright .\nUser Interface: {gap} .\n",
      "Project Manager: And we've therefore {disfmarker} we have to do the final questionnaire and do the meeting summary , I have a final report to present , um and then we're done .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: We done good , and we're finished in time .\nUser Interface: Bring on the ice sculptures .\nMarketing: Nice .\nIndustrial Designer: And then we get the product launch party .\nMarketing: So we might have to wait .\nIndustrial Designer: Product launch party ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That's what I said , ice sculptures .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 7344,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 10,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager asked the team members give personal introductions respectively to get acquainted with each other, and then introduced a new remote control project. Before discussing the product-related issues, the manager asked the members to get acquainted with the SMARTboards for further presentation and information sharing work by drawing in turns. After the drawing session, the manager reemphasized the program target and required the remote control to possess with a user-familiarized feature. Other group members voiced out additional design aspects, including usability and lightness. Finally, the team agreed on both the selling and the production price.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Okay , good morning . This is our first team meeting .\nUser Interface: Good day .\nMarketing: Morning .\nIndustrial Designer: Morning .\nProject Manager: I'll be your Project Manager for today , for this project . My name is Mark {gap} will be giving this presentation for you to kick the project off . {vocalsound} That's my uh that's the agenda for today . Well , of course we're new to each other , so I'd like to get acquainted first . So let's do that first , I mean {disfmarker} Let's start with you , can you introduce yourself ? You're our Marketing Expert .\n",
      "Marketing: Yes . {vocalsound} Um my name is Dirk , Dirk Meinfeld . Um I will be uh {gap} Pr Project {disfmarker} the Marketing Expert . And I will see what the user wants and uh what we can do uh with the new produ project {disfmarker} product . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , excellent . And you are User Interface {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Nick Broer ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: User Interface Designer . I'm going to uh look at the technical design from the uh user point of view .\nProject Manager: Excellent . Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: My name is Xavier Juergens , I'm the Industrial Designer , and there are three main questions that I have to find an answer to today . First one is uh what happens inside the apparatus , second is what is uh the apparatus made of ,\nMarketing: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and the third is what should it look like .\nProject Manager: What should it look like ? Okay .\nMarketing: Hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh , let's kick it off . Oh , there we go . So , our new project is about {disfmarker} we need design a remote control for television set , so , which has to be original , trendy and user-friendly . I took this off our corporate website . {disfmarker} I think well it sums up what we need to do . It's We're inspired by latest fashion , not only electronics , but also the latest trends in clothes and interior design . That's why our product will always fit in your home . So apparently we need to {vocalsound} um be very at um very open to what's currently hot in the market . So that's what you need to do to bring us the latest info and what people want .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker} So we put the fashion in electronics . So that's what we need to go for . Anyway , we'll take this project in three steps , three pha uh three phase of design . First step will be the functional design .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: And that's basically what we're gonna do . Everybody has uh a piece of individual work and a meeting afterwards , so we can share information about {disfmarker} So I'm gonna keep this short , since we had a technical problem . So skip through this . Uh . Okay . Every meeting we {disfmarker} everybody can present their uh their views and everything , so to help with these , you have {disfmarker} we have the SMARTboards here . We can use a regular PowerPoint presentation . I'm supposed to give you an introduction on this doodling board , so it's {disfmarker} actually it's very easy . Like it says , very simple , you just take out the pen . Like you see here , I'll just take the {disfmarker} take {gap} here . That's it , you just put it on the board . You see a pen here . You go here , just like using a pen . You can just draw whatever you want . It's like the eraser , can erase whatever you want . And so it will be easy just to illustrate your views , if you wanna change the format , you just {vocalsound} either take out jus just like the pen , and whatever you want , your current colour , your line width , just to make the line bigger . So it should be really easy .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: This is to take the {disfmarker} just take a new slide and back again . We're just gonna keep using this board all the time , so I think it will be {disfmarker} it's very clear for everyone , I suppose . So I'll take this out . {vocalsound} Okay . We'll use that later . Anyway . Yeah , just just just stuff that you wanna share , just put it in the in the project folder , like I put my presentation now . I'll put the the minutes of every meeting , I'll put them there too , so everybody can read up if they have to leave early or whatever . So next , been here . {vocalsound} Well , {gap} gonna give the electronic white-board uh a shot . So basic idea is we have a blank sheet . Just try whatever you want , and like it says , draw your favourite animal . I think the creative genius should go first . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} The creative genius ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Thank you very much .\nProject Manager: So , draw us your favourite animal .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well , I'm more into the technical aspects of drawing ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so I'm not really good at drawing animals ,\nProject Manager: Draw us a technical animal .\nUser Interface: but uh the animal which I {gap} {disfmarker} Oh .\nProject Manager: Yeah , it's still erasing .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Pen .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh format . Else my animal will be like king-size . I pretty much like {vocalsound} a dolphin , because of its uh its freedom basically . Let's see . A head . {gap} actually worked with this . It's like uh it's a very {disfmarker} Uh high-tech .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Bit low-responsive though .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So that's what we don't want .\n",
      "User Interface: Prefer pen and paper .\nProject Manager: We want a high-responsive product . So {disfmarker} It looks more like nuclear bomb .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Very nice dolphin .\nUser Interface: It {vocalsound} {vocalsound} doesn't look like a nuclear bomb .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: This thing isn't doing what I'm {disfmarker} What I want .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Let's go easy on it .\n",
      "User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , well it does look like a nuclear bomb .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I'll just finish up real soon , because I'm {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: So it doesn't really look like a dolphin ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Anyway ,\nUser Interface: but then again , this is all new for me .\n",
      "Project Manager: it should {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} It's supposed to be a dolphin , you like the freedom that it {disfmarker} that it represents .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh-huh .\nUser Interface: Like the ocean , like swimming . Do that in my spare time , so that's basically an {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: What do you like ? Okay . Well ,\nUser Interface: Now we can forget this ever happened .\nProject Manager: our Marketing Expert . Show us an animal .\nMarketing: Um an animal .\nProject Manager: {gap} Pick a {disfmarker} pick a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: I like the elephant . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: pick a clean sheet . Oh . Take a clean sheet first .\nMarketing: What ? Yeah . Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Just press next . That's it .\nMarketing: Oh yeah . Oh , a blank . Okay , next . Free , I like the elephant . It's big , it's strong , so uh uh {disfmarker} Oh , it's a little bit {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's not really that responsive , no . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: You have to hold it , right ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap} It's a beautiful animal .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Oh , you have to p press it pretty hard . With a smile on it ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It's a cute elephant .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: it's very important . Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And uh not to forget its tail . Oh .\nProject Manager: It's a nice beard .\nMarketing: Yeah , it's okay . Yes . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: And you was making comments on my dolphin . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I will beat the dolphin . {vocalsound} No .\nProject Manager: Okay , so it's just a bee .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So I suggest you make us the elephant in the market . The big and strong player in the market . This would be good .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , excellent . On to the next one .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: Uh yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay , you should press next .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Press next . Yeah , it's up there .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: That's it .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , well the animal I'd like to draw is a tiger .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: You picked a hard one , didn't you ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: My drawing skills are really bad , so .\nMarketing: Experience with the tiger .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: What ? They are {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: They are really bad , my drawing skills .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay uh-huh .\nProject Manager: Sure looks smooth .\nMarketing: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: I'm not sure how the legs should go , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh these are stripes .\nUser Interface: Got it . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I've picked this animal because it's very fast . It is uh it knows exactly what it wants . Uh it hardly ever wastes any resources .\nProject Manager: What does it want ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh well , basically uh it hunts for prey , but it does it always in a very well-thought way . Uh it knows exactly what it wants . It never kills an animal uh just for the killing , so it's very efficient . And it tries to do everything as fast as possible .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: And it always goes for uh security , in seeking uh uh a hide spot and uh and doing everything ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: security , speed and efficiency is important . And I think uh those things we can use .\nProject Manager: I agree .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: , I'm supposed to draw the animal next . Yay I introduce to the world the amazing ant .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh hard worker .\nProject Manager: Great team-workers .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Do everything to Uh really small , but together they're really strong . So I'm gonna give it a smiley face .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Not sure where the p {gap} . Just put 'em here . Whatever . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Think it need shoes . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I'm just too lazy to draw it all black , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That's the coolest ant ever .\nUser Interface: You've done this before , haven't you ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I love to draw ants . It's my hobby .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Anyway {disfmarker} Nah . {vocalsound} Just {disfmarker} I think it's very representative what we drew , I guess . Like you take {disfmarker} just take your freedom and use a a trendy interface that you design for us .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Just {disfmarker} Yeah . You're supposed to make i make it different from uh from what other people have , and just make it a little distinct . Anyway . {gap} another beep to stop the meeting . See . Warning . Finish meeting now . Uh put this down . Examples . Well I guess we have a little little time extra , but {disfmarker} Just a little quick discussion to to open open our work . So what do you guys think about {disfmarker} The first idea is just very short . I'll start with you . What are y What are your first ideas for the new product ? What {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Well , I basically had a question . Do {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} Are we going to introduce a multi remote control ? Is it just the T_V_ or do we want to in\nProject Manager: The project I got was just for a T_V_ remote control .\nMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Just for T_V_ remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I guess so .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay . Well , I was thinking about design remote control , with our uh motto and all .\nMarketing: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Uh thing to keep in mind is that we need to stick to what people are familiar with .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: No rational changes or whatever , 'cause it {disfmarker} revolutionary changes ,\nProject Manager: Okay , so very intuitive design , I guess .\nUser Interface: yes . {vocalsound} Uh we might have to consider other design aspects of our product . So that was something I wanted to add ,\nProject Manager: {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: and perhaps some usability aspect . T_V_ is becoming central in most homes . Do we want people who are disabled in any way to uh , yeah , to be able to use it as well ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , we want {disfmarker} I suppose we want almost everyone to be using it . So {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} I mean , really disabled people , yeah , {vocalsound} might be a problem , but I think it's a little {gap} take it into consideration . Um yeah . I think we really need to cut the meeting short . You have anything you wanna share quickly ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Hmm .\nMarketing: Uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Only one thing uh that has to be added according to me is uh the the material it is made of , it should be something light .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: That's {disfmarker} it speaks for itself ,\nProject Manager: It should be light , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: but some uh {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um , let's see ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: where did I {disfmarker} Let's skip that . Oh , this is it . Sorry , I skipped this sheet .\nMarketing: Selling price .\n",
      "Project Manager: What do we {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} Quick {gap} {disfmarker} What we're going to {disfmarker} Selling price , twenty five Euros . That's for you . The production price , twelve and a half Euros , approximately .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: Just go go for that . We'll reach the uh reach that profit .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay , well that's not that much to work with . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap} international .\n",
      "Project Manager: No , it's not much to work on . I'm sorry , I skipped it . {vocalsound} Anyways , that's {disfmarker} Yeah , this is it . Do you have anything you you came up with yet ? About uh marketing transfer , whatever ?\nMarketing: Um about what ? Marketing ?\nProject Manager: Marketing {gap} I'm not sure what you what you came up with yet . You have anything to share ? Or else we'll cut the meeting just cut the meeting short\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Um no , not really yet ,\nProject Manager: since we're supposed to stop .\n"
    ],
    "length": 3729,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 11,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The group mainly talked about the detailed design of the product at this meeting. First, the industrial designer introduced the function design of the product. It had not only some basic functions, but also the locator function and provided users with a revolutionary way of zapping. Later, the group went on to check the controller's paging ability and talked about more details on buttons. Next, the marketing expert mentioned three things making the product marketable and one possible drawback of the product. Besides, the marketing recommended making it upgradable but the project manager pointed out the risk of doing that. When evaluating the cost of the product, the group discussed some details of the components and made some adjustments. They finally got an estimate of fifteen point eight Euros, which was within the budget. In the end, they did some self-assessment and celebrated the completion of the project.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Uh 'kay . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So so so .\nUser Interface: Put on your mic .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works again ?\nUser Interface: Boss .\nProject Manager: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} Boss .\nMarketing: Maybe . Maybe maybe maybe .\nProject Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product , 'kay ?\nUser Interface: Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting . Uh I'm just gonna open , say a few boring words to start with again , and start taking minutes afterwards . You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there . Looks cool . And then we're gonna evaluate it .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Bra\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance , and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this . And uh\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it up ?\n",
      "Project Manager: yep . And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in . We should be fine . Let's try and keep this one on schedule .\nUser Interface: Alright .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it ? Is it in {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Three , three .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Thi third third third . The end product thingy . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Who wants it ?\nUser Interface: Pedro can have it .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I like {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nUser Interface: I'll help talk .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with . Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department , which is us , is uh fifteen point eight Euros ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units there\nUser Interface: Unit price .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: yeah , uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing . Um we implemented the basic functions , which is just T_V_ functions plus the locator , which was one of the marketing things , cradle , scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels , and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping , your favourite channels functionality , in the scroll .\nProject Manager: Zapping your favourite channels , eh ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list .\nProject Manager: Oh okay okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping .\n",
      "Project Manager: Ah 'kay okay , that's favourites .\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound} . And um yeah that was the result .\nProject Manager: Ah 'kay . I like the the the the logo on there as well .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: It is very prominent . So this is the {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit , and this is the actual remote itself . Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here , um and then the volume controls are here and here .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten . This is the power button . Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here ? This is the teletext .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to to\nUser Interface: The programme button ,\nIndustrial Designer: programme yeah .\nProject Manager: Ah , okay I see .\nUser Interface: yeah the programme button . So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use . So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here , and the red area is like a rubber covering .\nProject Manager: It's pretty cool .\n",
      "User Interface: So you can see that when it lays like this or like this {disfmarker} and the buttons are all gonna be rubber , so it's pretty hard to actually damage it um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Is that {disfmarker} could that be easy to {disfmarker} for the scroll wheel to be rotated if it lands on it ?\nUser Interface: Yeah that might be a possible a mi uh possible problem , but if you drop it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Not helping {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: yeah {vocalsound} .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh well I guess it depends on the stiffness a little of it .\nUser Interface: Yeah and it depends on if it's sliding , but I think it's pretty ergonomic . You can feel it .\nProject Manager: Mm . Feels good .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I take it that this is gonna be slightly lighter in the final design as well .\nUser Interface: Yeah of course . Well this is clay {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah it's kinda cool . You have to reach a little bit don't you .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah the the power button is a bit of a reach , but I think we might scale down the final model a bit .\nProject Manager: Ah yeah that wouldn't make sense .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} These {disfmarker} this is a bit larger than it would be , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's cool . I'm impressed .\nIndustrial Designer: Don't have no one to handle that .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And hold it so {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm that's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: wh what's the marketing perspective ?\nMarketing: oh that's {disfmarker} oh I like it . I mean you guys gave me more than I was asking for , so I'm happy because we've got some really marketable features in this . Yeah I think it's good . Good good good job .\nUser Interface: Mm Pedro can demonstrate the the paging ability .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . So you ha you have like the the base station with um the little button for the where's my remote .\nUser Interface: Beep beep beep .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh pla\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: The locator function .\nMarketing: I'm ha\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: It's great . That's great . It's a great feature .\nUser Interface: Um beep beep beep {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm it's impressing .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wicked isn't it ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So let me get it ,\nUser Interface: so {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: if I press this button {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: beep beep beep {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: I see . That's pretty cool . Hang on . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: beep beep beep {vocalsound} be shut up . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So you can take this ho take this home with you tonight and you can push that and he'll be across town {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Beep beep beep {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I plan to do that as well .\nUser Interface: okay . Um no no no tha that's alri\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} So the the two blue {disfmarker} are are those for the the it to charge off of {disfmarker} in ?\nUser Interface: Exactly that's exactly what those are for .\nProject Manager: Ah okay okay .\nUser Interface: And um there's one other feature that we were debating , but we decided to go against it , is um {disfmarker} you could\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: beep beep beep {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: we were thinking that it might be interesting to have a trigger button here because you have this finger {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} it's the right shape isn't it ?\nUser Interface: it it's it kinda feels like there should be something there , but we couldn't figure out what button is important enough to put there . And we we don't wanna accidentally be hitting the power button like that so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But maybe if you had a trigger plus the scroll then that would get past the the problem of it landing and scrolling ,\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'cause then it would need to be hit on both sides {gap} .\nUser Interface: Right . So maybe in a final design phase we might tweak that a little bit ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh , I can see that .\nProject Manager: But it's definitely got options for like different types of models and things as well based on that , hasn't it ?\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yep I like . Good job .\nProject Manager: So is that the the final colour scheme as well or ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} No no .\n",
      "User Interface: Oh no this is {vocalsound} just what we had to work with at the time .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: So we'll leave the colour scheme up to the marketing people .\nProject Manager: The {disfmarker} hmm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Careful .\nProject Manager: It came off . The scroll wheels , {gap} a problem with them not being sort of {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I don't think the user interface guy wants to touch it anymore .\n",
      "Marketing: Well I mean of course , I mean {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: My my s my suggestion is we're gonna go go to the silvers and blacks like most of the televisions .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: You know some blend of silvers and blacks .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Beep beep beep . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay enough of that .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Well i it's cool guys . 'Kay so are we done with the this presentation ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Ja .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Now now .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So you're not gonna find my uh my folder up there I gotta do mine up at the board .\nProject Manager: Have you ? Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah . So {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Can I not get your get at stuff from your shared folder now ?\n",
      "Marketing: No it's not in there because I had the computer problem and I I I cou I couldn't create it .\nProject Manager: Oh I see I see .\nMarketing: I couldn't create it in the PowerPoint ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable . So what I had , basically going from the PowerPoint format , is that uh yeah yeah I like this a lot . Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting room ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So what we had is we had the method . That's not how you spell method , is it ?\nUser Interface: No way .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound} . {gap} . {vocalsound} So this doesn't go so fast this way . And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh . And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three things to market . We've got the features , we have the uh characteristics , and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corp corporate {disfmarker} Help me . The the corporation stands behind the product , okay . So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll , we've got the uh the locator , we've got the durability , we've got the dependability ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: It fell off .\nMarketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product . Um\nUser Interface: Beep beep beep .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about , we have reliability , we have comfort , we have ergonomics , we have environmentally s sensitive . Uh and the corporation , we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company . We're wanting to make a name for ourself . We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a fair price . One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product , a normal use guarantee , which means that this product , for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use , if it should have a technical problem , that we could re replace it at no cost ? That was something I would be interested in . Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details , we have a we have a product , it has the features and the characteristics , and the background , I believe , to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros . We're gonna be competitive , and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche . Um w\n",
      "Project Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could , but lowering our profit margins ?\nMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation , based on what our competition is , I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm 'kay .\n",
      "Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction . But you guys came up with a great product , and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together . The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only . Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this . But with all of these other features I think people c {vocalsound} one thing I'm I'm hoping for is people are not gonna even notice . There's gonna be somebody going home and say oh sh this thing doesn't work for my D_V_D_ and my {disfmarker} but I like these other things , so they keep it , they don't take it back .\n",
      "Project Manager: And we're actually quite open to be able to expand the product for a later version with those features quite simply anyway , aren't we ? Th there's no fundamentally different technology to do that .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well one of one of the thoughts that I had is can can this unit be be produced in a way that makes it upgradable ?\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: You know uh like like a um a sim card in a in a um in a telephone . You know is there a card in th can we make a card and so after {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: W we need we need we need s some more buttons if it would to work on some other stuff , but {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm , but you follow what I'm s I'm s\nIndustrial Designer: We we w yeah we could get another version of it that actually works . But uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah 'cause if if we can make this unit upgradable then we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah but then we talk about changing the warranty concept and everything , but that's that was just an idea I had . Uh to me the only additions {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , the plus there's the the risk of making it unusable as well , or making it less {disfmarker} b because at the moment it's actually very straightforward to look at all the buttons , you know what they do , it's very simple , and it just works .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm there's a risk of that .\nMarketing: Yep . But anyway that's uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay so we can talk about finance now . So I have a little spreadsheet for us where {disfmarker} I I was wondering , you {disfmarker} when you talked about the fifteen point eight Euros , I was wondering how you came up with that figure ?\nUser Interface: Well , that was just just our technical team added up the um production costs of the individual units .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay so I have bit of a spreadsheet here for this . {vocalsound} Now\n",
      "User Interface: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: Very co very colf colourful .\nProject Manager: I've made a f few assumptions here in that I'm assuming that our power adaptor we can make for a cost of four Euros ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: equivalent to solar cells , which I think is probably fair considering that we have in-house manufacturing of power adaptors already .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: Uh {vocalsound} and I'm assuming that the locator beacon , the you know the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: beep beep beep .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Can be made for {disfmarker} it sounded different that time {disfmarker} uh can be made for a similar price to uh an L_C_ display ,\nUser Interface: Oh , sorry . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: uh an uh {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh do you think that's fair coming from a {disfmarker} m the manufacturing ?\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah um I do think we that we we {vocalsound} uh don't need the events chip on print , we only need the uh the regular chip on print ,\nProject Manager: {gap} . Okay .\nUser Interface: so there may have been a m miscalculation in there .\nProject Manager: Yep . Okay . So we're down to sixteen point four , yeah .\nUser Interface: And we and we have a single-curved uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Is that a single-curved rather than a double-curved ?\nUser Interface: Uh I think that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: We're not entirely sure what single-curve versus double-cur\nMarketing: {vocalsound} We've got a we've got a curve and a droop . I don't know whether that {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: It's single-curved ,\nProject Manager: You think ? Okay\nUser Interface: yeah .\nProject Manager: I'm {gap} convinced . But we save one Euro that way , yeah ? So we come {disfmarker} bring it down to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Fifteen point four .\n",
      "User Interface: See it's a little bit more than f single-curved . So yeah it's fifteen point eight , that's where we came up with it {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Well hang on .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Do don't speak so {disfmarker} it's in here , in that {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: w do we have any {disfmarker} we have special form don't we ?\nUser Interface: Yeah we do .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So that's {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Ah . What do you know {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: But the the the {disfmarker} we haven't talked about any special colour though uh I don't th\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Oh it's {vocalsound} a that's not very special , it's pretty {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: if we're going for greys and silvers then I don't think we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} O okay so we're {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} If th {vocalsound} .\n",
      "Project Manager: Push-button , scroll wheel , we're {disfmarker} basically we have uh th\nIndustrial Designer: We don't {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: is this intended to be a button as well or just a scroll ?\nUser Interface: That's a scroll .\nIndustrial Designer: It's a scroll .\nProject Manager: Just a scroll ? It's not one of the scrolls where , for example , with this one you could push it down to be a button ?\nUser Interface: Uh no we just use it as a scroll .\nMarketing: Ooh .\nProject Manager: Okay then we have fifteen point eight Euros .\n",
      "User Interface: It was a pretty accurate estimate I would say .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It wasn't bad .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: We're wicked . Awesome .\nProject Manager: Okay so we're on to the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: S 's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation , where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound} , and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going ? {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughts ?\nUser Interface: What ?\nProject Manager: How how have we done today ?\nUser Interface: I think we did pretty well .\nProject Manager: I think we did pretty well too .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: That looks pretty spectacular .\n",
      "Marketing: No , I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept .\nProject Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts ? Okay so th th what about um room for creativity ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Is it the {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room .\nProject Manager: I {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there .\nUser Interface: We got a couple innovative i\nMarketing: Yeah\nUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas .\n",
      "Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave us\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: we raised the price of it , we've added two t new technology to it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us .\nProject Manager: Not every idea necessarily ,\nIndustrial Designer: Basically .\n",
      "Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when I say we have we had {disfmarker} I believe we have room for creativity 'cause w this is {disfmarker} we did it .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay leadership , what do we report back to the bosses ? No th th I think they were r reasonably flexible with us over the whole changing the specs thing .\nUser Interface: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: It was more of a teamwork thing then really leadership based project was\nProject Manager: I agree .\nIndustrial Designer: Teamwork .\nMarketing: Cohesive yeah .\nProject Manager: Synergy .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} There was a lot of synergy .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yes synergistic yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Teamwork , yeah he is uh .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: What did we think of the meeting room , I guess is an important thing here . Mm .\nUser Interface: These cables suck {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: Yeah , this falls off\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: and uh the white board worked really well without any pro\nUser Interface: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: And that's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: D you must have very long shirts . That's way far down lapel mic .\nProject Manager: Mm-mm , lapel . Wha okay , oh , alright {vocalsound} .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Lapel lapel lapel {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Lapel .\nIndustrial Designer: That's almost a crotch {vocalsound} mi cr {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's it's down , it's quite close .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} You know you know what they're gonna have on the recording in there from that microphone is your lunch digesting you know th {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Keep it , keep it calm . {vocalsound} Oh dear {vocalsound} . No more pizza for me {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh dear oh dear {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So yeah the the pen came in alright and it's a little uncomfortable to use but I guess it works .\nIndustrial Designer: 'Cause this is {disfmarker} you were using it o upside down . Still that {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} That's our boss {vocalsound} .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Nah , I'm I'm not convinced of that at all .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I've been wor I've been wondering about that all day , but see these look like they're {disfmarker} that looks the oth that looks like it would be that way around ,\nIndustrial Designer: Use them like that .\nUser Interface: Pedro's right .\nProject Manager: but it feels more comfortable , wh what you call upside-down .\nUser Interface: Pedro's right .\n",
      "Project Manager: I don't care . Uh okay so that data might be slightly invalid . What new ideas have we found ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh wel\nMarketing: New ideas f uh for the product or for the the the the environment or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well let's do both then .\nMarketing: what are we ta\nProject Manager: Uh for the product ?\nUser Interface: Well we had the favourites list , and the scroll bar , and we have the cradle , and the r uh remote call feature .\nMarketing: Oh .\nProject Manager: Yeah we came up with quite a bit .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Bunch of new ideas .\nProject Manager: And for the meeting room , Has anyone got any more {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah comfortable headsets would be nice .\nProject Manager: Yeah less sore on the ears .\nMarketing: Well I I mean {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: clearly remote control microphones would be the would be a nice solution to all these cables , but I'm sure that there's there's some justification for these things that I don't know about . And of course I did not have so much fun with my computer this afternoon .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: It's not been uh it's not been cooperating so well , but {vocalsound} I don't think that's the that's avoidable .\nIndustrial Designer: Coulda been worse .\nProject Manager: Okay {vocalsound} so {disfmarker} Are the costs within the budget ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm n {vocalsound} no .\nProject Manager: Nope .\nMarketing: No .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh hang on it really {disfmarker} that's something we {disfmarker} that the costs were under twelve fifty Euros . No requirements are changed . We're still under twenty Euros to build , so we're good .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And the costs within the budget ? Not the original budget , but they are now . Is the project evaluated ? Mm I think so yeah , then celebration as it says .\nIndustrial Designer: Hooray .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Free coke provided at the cafeteria .\nProject Manager: Oh I don't know how that got there .\n",
      "User Interface: All right .\nProject Manager: Uh anyway .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Who wrote that one ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Thank\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Thanks guys .\nMarketing: So we need to close this meeting ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: yeah bravo . Congratulations .\nUser Interface: Good job guys .\nIndustrial Designer: Cool .\nMarketing: S I've got a lot of paperwork to catch up on so let's close this and come back and {disfmarker} 'kay .\n"
    ],
    "length": 6750,
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  },
  {
    "id": 12,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The main points of the discussion are the design goal and price of a new television remote control project. The group first put forward the design goal of remote control. Then they got used to the whiteboard and wrote down everyone's favourite animal and their characteristics. Project manager and Marketing wanted to sell this remote control for twenty five Euro and expected profit will be around two million Euro. Then, the group thought about colour and function features of the new remote controls. In addition, they also believed that the remote control should be safe enough for children to use, and the appearance should be acceptable to them.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: Oops .\nProject Manager: So , hello everyone . {vocalsound} We're here to have a kick-off meeting for the design of a {disfmarker} f for the beginning of new project um {vocalsound} uh remote control for the design for a new remote control {vocalsound} . I'm the Project Manager Christa Pavlov and {vocalsound} okay let's begin . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I'm first going to do an opening then we get used to one anothers and we speak about this tool we're going to design and try to make a project plan , some discussion and then we talk of uh the next meeting . So um we want to to do a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy and user friendly .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Um I think the important points we have to t talk about are uh it's functional design , it's conceptual design , and desail detailed design . {gap} and for that we're going um all to work individually and then have meeting during the whole day . Um , so {vocalsound} let's try the whiteboard {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Wow . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um so any of you who want to go .\nUser Interface: Yeah , for favourite animals .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: It's gonna be not my favourite one but the one I can draw .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And it's gonna be {disfmarker} you'll try to guess .\nMarketing: Wow . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Complex .\nProject Manager: Wow . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Huh ? A cat .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: No . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: No . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No . Darn . {vocalsound} Uh .\nProject Manager: A rabbit .\nUser Interface: Yes , that's a rabbit .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} A rabbit .\nUser Interface: That's my favourite one .\nMarketing: A what ?\nIndustrial Designer: Rabbit .\nMarketing: A r a rabbit , oh oh yeah , where is the carrot ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} That's it .\nMarketing: Okay {vocalsound} mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: You want to go ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I am not very good at uh {vocalsound} this kind of stuff .\nUser Interface: Hmm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: My favourite animal is {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You wa\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Wow . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: A human\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Guess .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} ah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} A human , yay . It's a very complex animal {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: and um {disfmarker} yeah . Characteristics of this this animal is {vocalsound} dangerous . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm I think you're supposed to , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Is the white {disfmarker} okay .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I guess you can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Wow . That's cobra .\nMarketing: Ah , a kind of uh snake ? Cobra ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah uh not really .\nMarketing: Exactly {vocalsound} . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Small cobra . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No , it just {disfmarker} small cobra , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is that a worm ? Or {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh-huh . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's co c quite recognisable . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} What about you uh {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh yeah Christa Pavlov {vocalsound} Mm .\nMarketing: Christa ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Christa {vocalsound} Christa .\nIndustrial Designer: Chris . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: A fish . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nProject Manager: Smiling fish {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: Smile fish . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: A smiling fish . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So , w whiteboard is working ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Good . {vocalsound} Next . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Next . Let's talk about money .\nUser Interface: Just tr try to guess who is a User Interface Designer .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , well . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} According to the drawings .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , you're {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Not me . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So .\nMarketing: So . Twenty five Euro for a remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah , mm that's the price we want to {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nProject Manager: that's the aim for the price for the remote control .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: We aim to do {vocalsound} this profit . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} On the international market .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} 'tis big number .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , we're to sell two million then .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Wow .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm {vocalsound} for a production cost of mm twelve fifty Euros maximum . {vocalsound} 'Kay {vocalsound} . So any of you have experience in remote controls ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Uh yes , we have plenty at home .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} In fact , my daughter likes l {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} remote controls .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} That {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm . To eat ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: To eat ? Yeah , mainly , and to break . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So that could be a great um {vocalsound} application .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Remote controls children proof . Mm mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Children proof .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Ye ye yeah .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nMarketing: So she likes uh buttons {vocalsound} which make click ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , pret\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: so {vocalsound} it has to click .\nProject Manager: So they have to be waterproof maybe ?\nMarketing: It has to be uh wha {vocalsound} baby proof {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'Cause they eat {disfmarker} she ate it . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: yeah {vocalsound} but mainly it has to be very robust\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: because even if she's not very tall she's uh {vocalsound} high enough so that uh when she throw it away it's uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Ah .\nMarketing: So it has to be very robust .\nUser Interface: Okay , unbreakable .\nMarketing: Unbreakable , yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , we have some child lock or something , yeah .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: And uh {vocalsound} it has to be nice looking ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: colourful , maybe {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Colourful , yeah mm .\nUser Interface: Colourful ? That's not practical .\nMarketing: colourful , because uh nobody has colourful remote control\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: No , that's a good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it's always black or {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: , they're always black , yeah ,\nProject Manager: Mm mm-mm .\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: but this one could be I dunno , purple or b\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: But how gonna {disfmarker} okay , just uh but it's uh monochrome it's n it's not like {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: No ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: because you think , why not .\nUser Interface: Otherwise you will never find it .\nMarketing: One colour .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah even we can change colours , no ? Like the uh\nMarketing: Oh like the phones ,\nIndustrial Designer: like the phones and these things we c yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: yeah , it could change colours , yeah .\nUser Interface: Cool .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: At least for children like one colour and {gap} . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Ch\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Good idea .\nMarketing: Good .\nIndustrial Designer: And it should be really {gap} small and {gap} .\nProject Manager: Small also ? Don't you think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Huh not so big like {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: No uh , not too much buttons or {disfmarker} mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , not too much buttons and {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Should it be , y you know these uh remote controls where um they are what they call a universal ret remote control\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: so y you can decide that now it's the remote control for the television , then it's the remote control for the the sound system , or for your refrigerator\nIndustrial Designer: Uh . Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} whatever {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: that's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I dunno if it's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or if we should have a targeted re remote control .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So colour , robustness , easy to use , size ,\nProject Manager: So , I think there's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: yeah , size matters , yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Colour , {vocalsound} size , sh\nProject Manager: So you you think it's better if small than bigger .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , maybe at least n not bigger than this I guess . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , but without any extremes like n not of this size , not too large . Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: No , not too small , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah , at least it should hold in your hand n properly , like {gap} .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , like a palm sized .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Just to hold it .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: But uh what would be different from this , from the others ? I dunno if {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh maybe we can change the colours that {disfmarker} at least the frame . Mm . S so then it depends {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , at least the colour would be different .\nIndustrial Designer: you are to {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm I mean you c you can easily remove the frame {gap} .\n",
      "Marketing: I think one thing important for instance in this remote control if you remember when people use it they're {disfmarker} they never find a good button in the right place .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: For some reason they they they click the off button when they want to use the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: So there's a problem in the design of that kind of remote control somehow ,\nProject Manager: Mm . So , some kind of idea uh with um um {vocalsound} cellular phone with a a screen that will tell you what {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: I dunno {gap} .\nUser Interface: No ,\nProject Manager: no .\nUser Interface: no screens , it's too complex .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound} Too expensive , yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Too expensive for twelve Euro ?\nUser Interface: And n maybe not too expensive ,\nProject Manager: And too expensive .\nUser Interface: well it's not my problem , but well okay .\nMarketing: Ah .\nUser Interface: But no screens on remote controls .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm . I thought it could be only a screen {vocalsound} which would change depending on uh uh the use or even the user .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So ma I prefer to have the off button at the top right ,\nIndustrial Designer: Ye yeah .\nMarketing: so I would have my own design of the remote control because it's in fact just a a full touch screen remote control ,\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nMarketing: if you {disfmarker} if you like .\nIndustrial Designer: I mean it it's like\nMarketing: I don't know if it makes sense , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-mm .\nIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} it's like two types no ? {vocalsound} people are right handed or left handed so y because I am left handed I use like this , say if you're right handed you use like this\nMarketing: Yeah , for instance , mm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm mm mm .\nIndustrial Designer: or {disfmarker} so tha your switch on and off should be on\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: So adaptable {vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah something {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Adaptable . Alright , good ,\nIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: Maybe , if if it's possible , yeah .\nProject Manager: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so how many actions do we need to implement in it ?\nIndustrial Designer: huh .\nUser Interface: On off ?\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe I think even we can keep two switches and then we can uh only make one working .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: We can adapt only one switch , suppose here like we can make two switches and if I'm left-hander I use this switch to follow the main operations .\nUser Interface: I mean if it's less than three uh then we can make it uh like a\nIndustrial Designer: Two .\nMarketing: Three buttons you mean ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} like three mental states ,\nProject Manager: Three option .\nUser Interface: yeah you know what I mean ,\nMarketing: Ah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: we can just make it uh\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um .\nUser Interface: controlled by a brain , huh ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm , yeah , sure . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Maybe if it's more , if there is a software inside\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: that ask you three {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} If it {disfmarker} if we want a r universal remote control that we sa like we say before it may may need more than three mm three button , three mm possibilities , ye yeah .\nUser Interface: Sh sure , sure .\nMarketing: Yeah , more than three actions that you may want to do at a given time .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: But for standard actions you usually what do you do , you change channels , you adjust volume , and nothing else .\nMarketing: Yeah but for instance when you change channels you can have {disfmarker} you can just go to the next one or go to channel twenty five .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And that's already more complex to go to channel twenty five . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: You do this ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: Uh no .\n",
      "User Interface: I usually just change channels .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Because I'm only using three or four channels but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . But they keep generally their t slash slash uh this thing and then the dash dash and then you can put {disfmarker} yeah , you can only have one bit .\nProject Manager: Yeah . I change channel like this , m uh I want to go to twenty five , and then to ten , uh-huh mm yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Dash .\n",
      "Marketing: And then back to the one I was before ,\nProject Manager: Also we can be here {disfmarker}\nMarketing: so there's {disfmarker} whichever it was .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah you can\nProject Manager: yeah , that would be cool .\nIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Go back button is good .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . Uh uh we had that in in other countries .\nUser Interface: I once had it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah , the previous button is {gap} .\nProject Manager: Mm {vocalsound} yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah e even the history so you could like uh undo {vocalsound} previous of the previous . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: History . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Then you can watch what your {disfmarker} ah you could also record your {disfmarker} record your {vocalsound} sequence of actions ,\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} that becomes more complex ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: but you could look at what uh the other people have used there or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} remote controls .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah , what the {disfmarker} which channels the viewer {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: maybe it's a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So I think we have full of idea .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um we're going to meet again in thirty minutes and uh I want you to mm {vocalsound} work on these ideas and try to make a uh {vocalsound} the ones , {vocalsound} make um {disfmarker} to decide what what are the ones important and what are the one that we don't want . {vocalsound} And um m maybe more in the technical parts what uh do we want to do . Um . {vocalsound} So um your personal coach will send you some instruction for for this thirty minutes .\n",
      "Marketing: So what does M_E_ means ? M_E_ the user requirements ? Or that's uh that's for us ?\nUser Interface: Market Expert .\nProject Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Marketing {disfmarker} yeah {vocalsound} {gap} .\nMarketing: Uh that's me .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh , of course {vocalsound} yeah , the user requirement specifications , uh-huh , yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Okay . {vocalsound} I'll think of that .\n"
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  {
    "id": 13,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager introduced a new remote control project. The team started to know each other by introducing their roles in this project. Project Manager then invited everyone to raise ideas about the remote. Their discussion included its versatility, anti-loss design and possible appearance, but there was no final decision on these matters. The team agreed that the remote control should be one-handed, user-friendly and globally attractive. In addition, they noticed that these ideas should be realized under the price target and balance the stability and design sense of the remote control.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Okay . Oh , that's not gonna work . {vocalsound} Oh , alright . {vocalsound} Okay . Okay . Um alright .\nMarketing: Uh , uh , um .\nProject Manager: I'll just put that there . Uh as you all know we're here to create a brand new fantastic remote . Uh I'm Nick Debusk , I'm the Project Manager . Uh we'll just get started with everyone kind of letting each other know who they are and what you're doing , what your what your role is um . Go ahead .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} I am Corinne Whiting and I will be the Marketing Expert and in each of the three phases I will have a different role . In the function design phase I will be talking about user requirement specification , and this means what needs and desires are to be fulfilled , and I'll be doing research to figure this out . In the conceptual design phase I will be dealing with trend watching and I'll be doing marketing research on the web . And then finally in the um detailed design phase I will be doing product evaluation and so I will be collecting the requirements and ranking all the requirements to see how we did .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\n",
      "User Interface: Hiya , I'm Ryan . Um I'm the User Interface Designer . Um likewise I've three different roles for each stage of design . Um the functional design is looking at the tex technical functions of a remote control . Um in the concept design , the user interface , how the user reacts with the the product . And the detailed design um {vocalsound} sort of like the user interface design , what they might be looking for , uh things like fashions , what makes wha how we're gonna make it special . That's about it .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right . {vocalsound} I'm Manuel and I'm the Industrial Designer in in this project um . In the functional design phase I'm {disfmarker} I'll be dealing mostly with the requirements , um we'll discuss what the prog what functions the the product has to fulfil and so and so on . Um I suppose we'll work pretty much together on that one . Um um in the conceptual design um I'll be pro mostly dealing with properties and materials um of our product .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh the detailed design {disfmarker} in the detailed design I'll be concerned with the look and feel of the product itself , um so we're pretty much working together obviously on the design front here . Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . Um so we've got our opening , our our agenda is the opening , uh acquaintance which we've kinda done . Uh tool training , project plan discussion and then closing .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh grand total of twenty five minutes we have here . Um so we are putting together a new remote control . Um we want it to be something original . Um of course we're a {disfmarker} not only a electronics company but a fashion um conscious electronics company , so we want it to be trendy um and we want it to be easy to use . {vocalsound} Um we've got the functional design , conceptual design and detailed design um which basically is is the three of you um . And w uh {vocalsound} well um functional design um . Um do we have {disfmarker} um any ideas of of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} maybe d let's just throw out some ideas of what kind of remote control we want to have , and then we can go into how we're gonna design it and and how we're gonna do the detailing on it .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . Well uh s function of remote control is just just {disfmarker} you know , change channels is its main function .\nProject Manager: So we want it to be um a T_V_ remote or {disfmarker} I I mean do we want it to to do other things besides just be a a television remote ?\nUser Interface: Oh right . I suppose you c try make it a universal remote\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: for {disfmarker} could work on all sort of electrical products in in one person's house . But , you know , they all sorta have the same role changing channels , volumes and then programming .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . 'Kay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: I think they all work on the same prin principle as well sorta like {disfmarker} I don't actually know . {gap} But is it just infra-red ? Is that standard ?\nProject Manager: I I think {disfmarker} yeah , yeah , r universal remote .\nUser Interface: Ye yeah .\nProject Manager: Um this is my first uh go-round with creating a remote control ,\nMarketing: Huh . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Ours too . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I think we're all in the same boat here . {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Um one thing I thought of with the remote control is you always lose 'em .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: So if there's a g a way of finding it quite easily , I thought that'd be quite good quite a good feature .\nMarketing: Mm . Ch\nProject Manager: So we should we should set our remote control up to where it has a uh\n",
      "Marketing: Like a tracking device ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: like a tracking device or or like a a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Oh you can get those key {disfmarker} well you could whistle or make a noise\nProject Manager: It makes a noise ,\nUser Interface: and it'd beep .\nProject Manager: there's a button on the T_V_ that you press\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , mm .\nProject Manager: and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: Be good .\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Generally , all remotes are sort of quite similar in their appearance .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Do we want {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Just long .\nProject Manager: so they're kinda like long and rectangular .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Do we want something crazy ?\nUser Interface: Black usually .\nProject Manager: You know , we want something new that's gonna stand out .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Lot more modern .\nProject Manager: A m a modern {disfmarker} so our remote should be {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I think so . Maybe sorta spherical or something . A ball .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Maybe like user-friendly , like a little\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: you know , where you can use both hands , like a little keyboard type thing .\nUser Interface: People {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: I thought maybe , because people always tend to throw a remote control about the place to one another {disfmarker} if it was in a ball ,\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: and maybe the actual controls are inside or something .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Um .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well there are of course certain restrictions , you can't have it be any form and fulfil all functions at the same time ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so there are always the {disfmarker} some restrictions we have to apply here . Um however um one question is how stable is that thing supposed to be , that refers to the material , pretty much um . What are we gonna build that thing out of ?\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: How sturdy is it gonna be ? Do we want it to last longer or rather have people whatever , have to buy one every half a year ?\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so {disfmarker} yeah , so we want it to be sturdy ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: we want it to to hold up to somebody's child , you know , throwing it across the room or , as you said , people kinda throw it , so ball-shaped , uh you know , if it were ball-shaped maybe ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: then it {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It could be cased on the outside and t everything could be inside .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay . Um so we want it to be modern , fun , sturdy , um {disfmarker} So our form and our function . Um we want it to be um easy to find . {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} What else {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} what else do we want it to to do ? So we want it to be universal . It's something that we're supposed to sell for about twenty five Euros um and you know , goals for profits are I think somewhere around uh fifty million Euros , what they wanna make on it , so .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm . Also since we're partners of the International Remote Control Association , maybe we wanna make it something that would globally appeal .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: That's more on the research end , but {disfmarker} the marketing .\nProject Manager: So marketing , you know , how {disfmarker} maybe uh marketing , you could s find out what is the most universally um appealing {vocalsound} remote control out there .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And maybe as far as design goes , maybe we could have different ones for different target audiences ,\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: 'cause maybe one won't apply to all of the countries we're targeting .\nUser Interface: Ye Small .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Do you guys have any ideas for what it should look like ? Maybe we could draw it up on the on the board over there . Some ideas ? We want it to be a b a ball ,\nUser Interface: {gap} I'd {disfmarker} I could draw sorta the ball idea .\nProject Manager: you know , we'll draw up we'll draw up the ball and maybe th um where the buttons are located .\n",
      "User Interface: My original idea was just simply sort of a sphere , where maybe you {disfmarker} this is where it's connected together , and then when you open it out , it could fol it could be maybe flip , like a flip phone , and then when you fold it out the middle {disfmarker} Maybe a hinge that'll have to be the strongest part of it . If that {disfmarker} if we did use a hinge , or if it was just two parts ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: and then you'd have just sorta you you you know , your buttons . Thing is inside I think , sometimes remotes have too many buttons , so maybe as simple as possible , um as few buttons inside as possible . Um , I dunno , what's the idea for . Just something {disfmarker} maybe if you ha if it had like if some kind of like light or something or lights around it . It's looking a bit like something out of Star Wars at the moment though , to be fair .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} But yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Futuristic . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That was that was a sorta simple idea I had\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nUser Interface: and then you know you could {gap} about {disfmarker} Right , it would almost be like a ball . So that was just just an idea I had . I don't know whether anybody else has other ideas ?\nIndustrial Designer: Right . One problem you'd get with this design is um {disfmarker} the ball is a nice idea because of it's stability really ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but of course , since it's a ball , it'll roll , so we'd have to have it flat on one side at least , down here somewhere ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . Maybe f yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: take away that part . That's one of the big issues . Also also you risk the hinges here . That's that's um a problem .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's g that's a good idea . Yeah . The idea {disfmarker} it didn't have to necessarily be f a hinge ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's that's {vocalsound} interesting of course ,\n",
      "User Interface: that was just one idea though .\nIndustrial Designer: but that's of course a weak point , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: How would we go about um making you know {disfmarker} getting rid of our weak points ? What {disfmarker} I mean would we just have a flat spot on the bottom of the ball ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Not to put you on the spot ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} E No no ,\nProject Manager: but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: uh uh {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: What did you say your title was again ?\nIndustrial Designer: N n\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You're the the Industrial Designer .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , I'm your Industrial Designer ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: so i b well ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: the point is that {vocalsound} well maybe {disfmarker} I dunno . The shape is perhaps not the most ideal .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: As as stable as it is , there must be a compromise between um stability and design here , so .\nUser Interface: Well I I suppose that things become {gap} design . But I mean i\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I was trying to think of like the design of others . I can't think of anything other than a long rectangle for remote ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: maybe small , sort of fatter ones , but there's nothing being done sort of out of left field , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: It's not new , it's not innovative , it's {disfmarker} you know , everybody does long remote because it's easy ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: it's it's stable um .\nMarketing: 'Kay , I'll draw something . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So if {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: What ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: no , go ahead .\nMarketing: My idea was just to have it be kind of like a keyboard type shape , you know , like video games\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: l so . But maybe {disfmarker} I mean that would be kinda big and bulky . We could also try to do the hinge thing , so it could like flip out that way . I don't know . {vocalsound} That's my idea .\nUser Interface: I think definitely doing something different\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: is a good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: I mean maybe design something , that's sort of like {vocalsound} suppose not everybody's everybody's hand's the same , but something that would maybe fit in the hand easier .\nProject Manager: Something with a grip .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , with a grip .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Because even {disfmarker} I suppose even with the ball\nUser Interface: It still might be hard to {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: it's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: it still not the ho easiest thing to hold , yeah .\nProject Manager: it might not be the easiest to hold onto um .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: So perhaps the the joystick {disfmarker} the the keyboard idea might work better .\nUser Interface: Like {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: But then again , people like to use one hand to flip and one hand to hold their soda , so maybe maybe we {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} True .\nUser Interface: It's d yeah . I think it's definitely got to be a a one-handed a one-handed job .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: I feel like I'm just shooting everything down here .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} That's fine .\nProject Manager: Uh {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: You're the boss , you're {vocalsound} allowed to .\nIndustrial Designer: Well with the one-handed design you also have the the problem of the size w 'cause you know from cell phones , they can be too small . So if the remote is too small it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: if it's small it probably looks better , but may not be th as functional . So for that there's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay , so\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: unfortunately we've got about five minutes here {vocalsound} to come up with our um remote control idea and start rolling with it . Um we've talked about our experiences with remote control and um we've got a couple ideas um . Let's see here . What if we had what if we had not only um {disfmarker} say we went with the ball the ball function um , but maybe we give it sort of grips along the side s um to make it easier to hold on to . So you know um s so it's easier to hold onto that way .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Course that'll then remove some of our our ball . Unless this unless this part were raised , so say the cover flips over and covers that part . So the grip is {disfmarker} No , that wouldn't work either um . But if we're gonna make it flat on the bottom , then that eliminates our ball anyways . So if it were flat on the bottom and then had the sorta grips on the side here I guess , um and then {vocalsound} flat uh {disfmarker} And then we have the problem with the hinge . So if we're flat on the bottom , it's not gonna roll away , it'll stay where we want .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: The question is also , I dunno , d do you really always want to open that thing when you have to use it ?\nProject Manager: Mm , that's true .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's probably going to lie around opened all the time anyway , so I don't know if a lid is a good idea . From stabil stability point of view uh it certainly is , but also you have to face it and take into account the more of these things break by accident , uh the more we sell . So it's {disfmarker} don't make it too stable {vocalsound} uh .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we don't have it flip open . We just have a ball {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But then maybe to go back to the to th s something along those things then .\nIndustrial Designer: To the other design .\nProject Manager: Okay , so then we forget the ball .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} It looks cool . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Looks cool though .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It looks cool , but it's really not {disfmarker} it's not functional um .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} functional .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we've got our sort of keyboard kind . What if we flipped it around here , so that it were um {disfmarker} Sorry , that doesn't look anything like what you {vocalsound} had there . Um so it's up and down , you hold it this way .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Course then it's it's like the rectangular {vocalsound} again , only with a couple of jutting out points . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Right . Right .\nProject Manager: But it's one-handed um .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Question is what makes those game pads functional ? W I think that's pretty much the form for full hand . So it's a round shape underneath that makes it comfy ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: right ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: makes it nice , so that's the essential part . Except for that I think we'll not {disfmarker} probably not get a get away from some longer design .\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Right .\nIndustrial Designer: 'Cause you also have to know which way around to point this thing .\nProject Manager: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: You know , all\n",
      "Project Manager: because it doesn't have a cord , like joysticks do .\nIndustrial Designer: that dif batteries {disfmarker} right , and {disfmarker} Batteries go weak as well , so um after a while you have to point it towards the uh towards the equipment you wanna control with it , right ? So , have to m show which is the front , which is the back .\nProject Manager: Is it possible to have it to where it would work with a like a sensor on either side ? So that either way you're pointing it it would work .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I suppose you could do that . O of course the more technology you stick in that , the more it'll cost , so .\nProject Manager: More expensive and {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Course you can do that .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I mean of course it'll be evident after a while or {disfmarker} if you look at it , it'll it'll be evident which way around to point it , since you have the the numbers and the and the {vocalsound} the buttons and stuff ,\nProject Manager: True .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but um it's rather about an instinctual thing ,\nUser Interface: Put it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: like you just grab it , you don't have to s look at it , you know , which way around to point it . Otherwise the design of {disfmarker} or the the point of putting two sensors on both sides um would probably work .\nUser Interface: Even if you designed it {disfmarker} in some {disfmarker} in a way that you know , isn't a rectangle , but still pointed in a direction that had definite points . So if that's your thing and you got something like that instead ,\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and there's your s you kn you know which way you're gonna pointing it .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Sorry to interrupt , but we have a warning to finish .\nProject Manager: Are we out of time ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , well , just to finish up , should we s go with this plan , start making some {disfmarker} Are good ideas , what are not .\nIndustrial Designer: Let's .\nUser Interface: Does it say {disfmarker} what does it say for n\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Obviously {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: it says on there what we need to do for the next meeting , I think .\nProject Manager: Uh . Must finish now , so .\nUser Interface: T\nProject Manager: And then marketing will look and see what uh what people want .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Great .\nProject Manager: Okay . And Project Manager will design a better meeting for next {vocalsound} time around , be a little bit more prepared .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And uh alright , good meeting .\n"
    ],
    "length": 5242,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 14,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The whole meeting was the initial meeting of a new remote control project. Firstly, Project Manager introduced the scope and agenda of the project, and the team got acquainted with each other and technical devices. Then Project Manager made clear that remote control would be priced at 25 Euros and a production cost of 12.5 Euros, in order to achieve a profit aim of 50 million Euros. After an accident, Marketing suggested that remote control should be made multipurpose and the consensus was reached on this point. Finally, the group brainstormed some other functions for the remote control despite a potential increase in production cost.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: So uh good morning .\nUser Interface: Morning .\nMarketing: Morning .\nProject Manager: I see you all find your places .\nIndustrial Designer: Morning .\nProject Manager: Is everybody sitting on the right place ? Yeah ?\nMarketing: Yep .\nProject Manager: I guess so . So {disfmarker} Let's see . First I will introduce myself . I don't know if uh {disfmarker} if everybody knows me , so I'm Bart ,\nMarketing: My name's Frank .\nProject Manager: hello . Hello .\nUser Interface: I'm {gap} .\nProject Manager: Bart . Hello . Hello . Bart .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nProject Manager: Welcome .\n",
      "Marketing: Thank you .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh let's see . Uh let's start off um with a little presentation . Uh Now first I'll tell you a little bit about the setting . You can see there are a few cameras here . They'll record uh our actions and you'll have wires and microphones that will record your voice . Uh there are also some microphones there but th um you don't have to pay a lot of attention on those , because it will uh disappear when you don't attend to it . So is there a project documents folder ? There are some notes in it already I see , some documents . Uh I'll start with the presentation kick off . Is being modified by the administrator . Uh okay {vocalsound} .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Hmm , that's interesting .\nProject Manager: Let's do it read only . Well I don't know if you've noticed , but uh we're working for Real Reaction . Uh it's a company in uh electronics . We put fashion in electronics , uh we make it work , uh we put a lot of effort in design and in the product itself . I'm Bart {gap} the project manager so I'll direct you through the project . This is our agenda . {vocalsound} Uh we have our opening acquaintance , tool training , project plan description closing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh maybe I can sit down , then I can take some notes or {disfmarker} Let's see . Maybe you can take the minutes once in a while .\nMarketing: Sure .\nProject Manager: I dunno it's not a lot of work , but just uh if you hear something uh you can write down , just write it down . Uh as you can see uh it's the opening , aquaintance tool training . Aquaintance is a point we've done a bit . Um have you all seen the corporate website already ? Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Yep . Visit it .\n",
      "Project Manager: Have you seen any flaws in it ? I think I found one . {vocalsound} No ?\nUser Interface: Hmm ?\nMarketing: Can't say I paid much attention to it ,\nProject Manager: I can see if it works this way . No , it doesn't work here .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay no problem . But um on the corporate information side there's a th uh {disfmarker} there was Real Remote instead of Real Reaction .\nMarketing: Oh yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Real Remote is not really the company we're {disfmarker} we are , but it's just a little {gap} fault .\nUser Interface: Okay . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um okay , what are we going to do ? {vocalsound} Uh our project aim is as you can see a new remote control . It has to be original , trendy , and user friendly . So these are uh the points why uh we also hired you . {vocalsound} We've got the Marketing Expert for uh the trendy and user friendly look .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: And Industrial Designer uh there's also user friendly and a bit original . {vocalsound} And we've got our User Interface Designer .\nUser Interface: Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: He's also uh {disfmarker} That's about the new remote control . Uh project method um is uh there are three phases we are going through . First is functional des uh design , individual work , meetings . After the functional design , then the conceptual design and the detailed design . {vocalsound} I had some role indications on here . But I think you know it already by yourself . The Industrial Designer is going to work on the working design , uh components design and a bit of the look and feel design . Uh the User Interface Designer is going to do the technical function design , user interface concept and user interface design . {vocalsound} And the marketing expert is doing a little bit of user requirement specification , trend watching and project {disfmarker} uh product ev evaluation . So that's a bit what you're going to do . But that will be all worked out in uh other meetings .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Then we've got our first tool training . {vocalsound} We are going to work with a lot of high-tech tools here , so it's ab it's handy if we have a little bit of training first . As you can see we've got the smart boards here and here in the white board . Um in the white board here there's a little tool bar on this side . Here are some functions . You can save . N uh these functions we don't have anything to do with , only undo , you can undo a little uh piece of drawing . A blank new document for each person . Uh select a pen , eraser . Capture we don't have to do anything with . Uh then we've got our pen . This pen . It's really funny because you can draw with it on this page um in the {disfmarker} think it is form of .\n",
      "Marketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: You can also select the current colour and the line width . But then first you have to select the pen function .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: But we're going to work with it in a minute . So okay . Uh that's very simple and it's easy to uh draw your findings and drawings on there . {vocalsound} Uh then a short thing about documents . We've got our shared folder , project {gap} project {disfmarker} what was it ? Project documents {gap} I think . But all you will found that already because there are a lot of documents in it already , so it will be okay . And these are available on the smart boards as well , so if you have a document you wanna show , just open it from the folder .\nUser Interface: Okay . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Here is a simple tool bar . It's what I just said , it's save , print , move back or forward one page . You can switch between the different drawings . And then we're going to try out the white board .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So as you can see we g all {vocalsound} going to draw a animal . {vocalsound} Just to uh uh just to get a bit familiar with it .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Mouse wasn't running away . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: That was interesting .\nProject Manager: Is everybody {disfmarker} is anybody playing with the mouse ? No .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Innocent .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We're going to uh draw animal . {vocalsound} And uh just sum up a few of its favourite characteristics .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Um the only thing we have to uh look after is that we use different colours , and different line width .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh there's {disfmarker} I can start from now . I will . You can use this pen by holding it like a like a little child . Because if you hold it like this , the sensors will get blocked and then the drawing won't get good .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: 'Kay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Another thing is you have to be uh a bit slow . 'Cause if you're going to draw like really fast then um the pen won't hold up . So we choose form of current colour uh I think grey is appropriate . Then the line width . I think seven will be nice . Now you'll see my drawing capabilities .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: These are not very much , but uh {disfmarker} Uh , see you have to do it real slow . {vocalsound} Oh {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Sure .\nProject Manager: Ah I was trying to draw a dolphin ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: but I think his nose has to be a little bit {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: But it's close .\nMarketing: I'm thinking about a swordfish .\nProject Manager: So what {disfmarker} yeah it's {disfmarker} this is bit of the swordfish .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , he hasn't got an eye .\nUser Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Woah . {vocalsound} Now we've got another function . We've got the eraser .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} And then you can undo this easily .\nMarketing: Meat .\nProject Manager: Ah it's okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: And I've got to write down a few of its characteristics . Uh is {disfmarker} They've got no text tool , no . Uh . {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: This is typically a undo action , I think . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Pen . Maybe you have to hold it a bit upside-down . I think that's it because if you wan ar are going to do it like this then it will be a stripe . But I don't know , I'm just trying . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} This is not my work ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: okay .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: Maybe you have to use {disfmarker} Oh .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh . I think it's a {disfmarker} it wants to draw a {disfmarker} another animal ? I don't know . It lives for the fun . So {disfmarker} It's my characteristic uh characteristic about the dolphin . It lives for the fun . So now I'm gonna hand over the pen on the new blank sheet to you .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Go ahead .\n",
      "Marketing: Thank you . Okay . Gonna use a different line width . And I'm gonna draw in black . There . 'Kay , I'm not much of an artist , but here we go .\nProject Manager: Maybe it's easier to draw the smaller line width , I think . Because this is going a lot better than uh I did .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: A sheep .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: This is my um {disfmarker} Hmm . Sheep .\nProject Manager: It's nice . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: With of course\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh .\nMarketing: little blue dot they always get sprayed on their butts .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It's a real dead sheep ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: There .\nProject Manager: yeah . {vocalsound} For recognition ,\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: yeah , I see . {vocalsound} Um maybe you can also write your name somewhere .\n",
      "Marketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: On just a {disfmarker}\nMarketing: They are {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Come on . You have to go really slow when you're writing .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: They're brilliant animal animals .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And that's just a little me thingy . So . Guess I'll pass the pen to our User Interface Designer .\nProject Manager: Nice .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay . Um I'm just gonna draw its uh head , but mm {disfmarker} Let's see . Mm . Uh . {gap} Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Sweet . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Interesting .\nUser Interface: You know what that is ? Or who ?\nIndustrial Designer: Garfield .\nMarketing: A rabbit ?\nUser Interface: Ah okay , yeah .\nMarketing: Garfield . Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Just a {disfmarker} Mm . Guess . So uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah . That's enough . {vocalsound} Um , you say a blank ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , just a blank sheet .\nUser Interface: or {disfmarker} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Well I was gonna draw a cat too , so .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I'll just try something else .\nProject Manager: No . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Something different than Garfield .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mine is a bit more skinny . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , it's pretty skinny cat . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} But uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And the most interesting tail .\nProject Manager: Is your cat , or did you find him on the street ? {gap} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well , it's supposed to be a cat . I like cats because uh they are uh independent .\nProject Manager: Ah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: The pen . So .\nProject Manager: Okay . That's pretty clear . So everybody knows how to work with the white board now ? So if you have any ideas or if you wanna draw anything on the white board , just ask\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: The pen . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: and go ahead . It's pretty uh easy .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: S {gap}\nMarketing: We're being haunted .\nProject Manager: haunted white board . {vocalsound} So we've got the tool uh introduction . We move along to the project finance .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Um as you can see , we um for our remote control , a selling price is uh twenty five Euros . Our selling price . Uh our profit aim is fifty million Euros . Uh that's the least we have to get from our remote controls , so we have to work together to reach our aims . Uh we can do it international , so we have to focus on different kind of users , different kind of cultures , and different kind of trends as well . Um but that's all in the later stadium . Our production cost um can be maximal twelve and a half Euros , so that's also a point we have to keep in mind , that we won't make remote controls with small televisions inside , and stuff like that . It won't work . So just try to remember these points . Selling price twenty five , profit aims fifty million um , but more important is the int international market we're trying to focus on . And production cost uh maximal twelve and a half Euros . So that's leads us to our little discussion . We've got about five or ten minutes left for discussion . So I'm gonna sit down , I think . It's easier .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , you got a message .\nProject Manager: I've got a message . Five minutes . Okay ,\nUser Interface: Five minutes , okay .\nProject Manager: that's uh good timing . {vocalsound} {gap}\nMarketing: So just on a side note , why is it my laptop is only giving me a black screen ?\nUser Interface: Mm ?\nProject Manager: Uh maybe you have to say the magic word . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Right .\nProject Manager: Does it do anything ?\nMarketing: No .\n",
      "Project Manager: Maybe you have to just clap it down ? Mm back up again . No slide show . Hmm .\nMarketing: It's off now .\nProject Manager: It's off . Now you have to put it back o Oh yeah . You'll be okay , I think .\nMarketing: Well , it was on , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well it's those laptops . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Ah , there we are .\n",
      "Project Manager: Nice . Okay . {vocalsound} But so mm does everybody has um experiences with uh remote controls , and I mean not the ordinary mote controls , but also a little bit different ones ? Like you can use for other ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm . Oh really ?\nProject Manager: No ?\nUser Interface: Huh .\nProject Manager: You ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's a {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No , me neither .\n",
      "Marketing: Well , we have a kind of broad T_V_ at home , and a D_V_D_ player , so we got like a lot of remote controls , one for the T_V_ , one for the video recorder , one for the D_V_D_ player .\nProject Manager: Ah yeah .\nMarketing: And I think it's {disfmarker} it would be best to just make one remote control that can operate them all .\nProject Manager: Yep . Yeah\nUser Interface: Sure . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: I've I've got one at home . And you can uh program I think eight different devices in it , and you can use it for your television , anything else .\nUser Interface: Okay , yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: And it also operates on infra-red , so you have to got the little device inside your room , and then you can operate it from the third or th or second floor .\nUser Interface: Okay , yeah .\nMarketing: Oh\nProject Manager: So that's pretty handy when you have a video recorder or D_V_D_ player downstairs and you've got a link to your T_V_ on the second floor . So that's a pretty handy um\n",
      "Marketing: really .\nUser Interface: Hmm . Oh . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: thing . {vocalsound} Um but only the I think that if you can put different kind of devices in one remote control , it makes it a lot easier as well . It's uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Oh .\nProject Manager: That's good to remember .\nMarketing: So I think you can take minutes again .\nProject Manager: Yeah , that's nice , I think . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Since it's your job .\nProject Manager: So we've {disfmarker} we want different functions\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: uh and we can maybe see if we can do something with the infra-red . But I don't know if that will exceed the production costs . So that uh that's something we have to find out , I think .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah . But that would be really good if we could do that . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And other functions for a remote control ? Maybe we can make it uh uh\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Um . Think it has to be shock proof\nUser Interface: Sure , yeah .\nMarketing: 'cause\nProject Manager: Shock proof .\n",
      "Marketing: my remote control tends to fall a lot .\nUser Interface: Waterproof , or uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Sure .\nUser Interface: Uh , you never no know uh ,\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I w I mean uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Waterproof . Okay . So these are our um a few things we can think of . Um I will put the minutes from this meeting uh in our project folder .\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\nMarketing: Yeah , one other little thing . Thought it might be handy to put a battery status display on it .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's a {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So you can see\nProject Manager: battery stays .\nUser Interface: Okay , yeah .\nMarketing: how much is left in the battery . But they'll also really drag up the production costs , so think we'll have to see about that too .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Uh .\nMarketing: But maybe just a little LED , I don't know .\nProject Manager: That's an idea as well . Other ideas ? Quick ideas .\nIndustrial Designer: Nope .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: They were all mentioned ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Any questions about this uh presentation ? Kick off presentation .\nMarketing: Um . Nope , don't think so .\nProject Manager: No ?\nUser Interface: {gap}\nProject Manager: Okay , then I'll put the minutes from this meeting in the project folder , and then we can all work . Finish meeting now . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: And we can all work uh on our own projects . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Aye sir .\nProject Manager: Okay then I'll meet you in about a half an hour , I think .\n"
    ],
    "length": 4918,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 15,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "In their first meeting, the team members got familiar with each other through some icebreaker games. Project Manager started to introduce the new remote control project with the team's financial goal. The unit price was determined to be 25 Euros. The production of each remote control would cost 12.5 Euros. The team would have to make sales amounting to 50 million Euros. Project Manager continued to assign individual tasks to the team members. Industrial Designer had worked out a rough plan for the first phase and would produce a working design. User Interface was supposed to specify the technical functions. Marketing would be responsible for market research. Users mainly expect the remote control to be user-friendly and handy. The team decided to focus on the basic functions at the first stage but make sure the extendibility of the functions as well.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm uh .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {gap} We're the first .\nUser Interface: Mm . We're the first ones . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Marketing Expert , yes .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So you found your spots .\nMarketing: Yes .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Move to the meeting room . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Bling bling . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Right . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} where has my screen gone ?\nIndustrial Designer: Hi .\nUser Interface: Hello , good day . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh yeah , we have to talk in English ,\nMarketing: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: huh .\nUser Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Yeah . My screen is gone .\nProject Manager: It's called black . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh .\nUser Interface: Kick-off meeting , wow . It's uh looks uh nice .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I'm afraid I'm a bit slow for this stuff uh .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: Hmm ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I'm afraid I'm a bit too slow . {vocalsound} I don't know how much preparation you guys did ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: but not a lot .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: No , it's {disfmarker} it was uh not enough .\nProject Manager: You see this beautiful presentation .\nMarketing: Yeah . Very nice .\nProject Manager: Okay let's get started .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh I sort of prepared this .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh opening acquaintance , tool training , uh how to use the things here . Uh project plan discussion , and yeah then the rest of the meeting .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Um we're supposed to develop a new remote control , that's both original , trendy and user-friendly . So ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: hope you have good ideas . I don't . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I did my best .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um we're work we're working uh from top to bottom . Uh functional design ,\nIndustrial Designer: Not yet .\nProject Manager: then we do some in individual work , then we have a meeting to discuss the results , etcetera etcetera . And at the end of the day we should have a prototype drawn up . Uh we have available the smart board and the whiteboard . Um uh we should take some practice . I have some instructions now to do that .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh well you know how to {disfmarker} the documents work . So {disfmarker} Uh this for toolbar . You see it next . Um we have a pen . And we can use this pen to perform . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Operations .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: It doesn't always work . Yes .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay so you can draw .\nMarketing: Draw . Alright .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay and in the format menu you can select colour and line width , etcetera etcetera . Okay ?\nMarketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker} Okay . Each of you can uh take some practice and you should draw an animal . Uh you should explain {disfmarker} Uh with different colours and with different pen widths .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And you should explain why you draw that particular animal .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Don't take up too much space . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So , Julian .\nUser Interface: Um yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Different pen widths , how do you do that ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh with the format menu .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh okay .\nProject Manager: And use different colours etcetera .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} It's a giraffe . Yeah .\nProject Manager: And {vocalsound} what's that supposed to be ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Are you serious ?\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Should it be one {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh yeah . {vocalsound} Oh yeah\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: four legs . Uh-huh . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Giraffe's yellow . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh it needs some uh some yellow uh {disfmarker} Oh format .\nMarketing: Can you use one blank sheet per drawing ? Or\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: so y you must save it at the end\nProject Manager: Yeah\nMarketing: and then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: you can press the next button , which is uh {disfmarker} yeah . I'll show you .\nUser Interface: That's some spots .\nIndustrial Designer: I in the file option menu .\nProject Manager: Yeah . In file menu .\nMarketing: Okay ,\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: then m make a new one .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: How much time do we have to draw anyway ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: 'Cause I can take forever on this .\nProject Manager: {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: Okay . Do I have to explain uh why I chose this uh this animal ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I think it's a it's a great animal .\nProject Manager: What is it ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} It's a it's a giraffe .\nProject Manager: A giraffe okay . Yeah I see a long neck\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: It's more like a dinosaur . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Okay I'll will give it an uh an eye .\nProject Manager: Okay . That's nice of you .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh .\nUser Interface: Hey . Come on .\nMarketing: Some leaf to eat . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . Yeah pretty good . Uh could you press the next uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: The next ? Yes .\nProject Manager: Okay . Then uh {disfmarker} {gap} .\n",
      "User Interface: Here you go . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . Thanks .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Is this part of our a acquai or introduction to each other ?\nProject Manager: Yeah sorry , introduction and get acquainted\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nProject Manager: That's the idea , so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh . Your line broke .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Alright .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah it's a bit slow ,\nMarketing: It's not that fast .\nProject Manager: so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I see . It misses the spot .\nProject Manager: {gap} pressure .\nIndustrial Designer: I'm guessing a turtle . No . {vocalsound} I'm kidding .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I say good guess . Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Why a turtle ?\nIndustrial Designer: Because of its shell .\nMarketing: Because it's slow . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's slow .\nUser Interface: 'Cause it's so\nProject Manager: You were slow too\nUser Interface: 'cause it's green . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah I was a bit slow too .\nIndustrial Designer: Dude you're a good drawer .\nMarketing: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh some other line uh width uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Do you have a turtle pet ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh okay .\nMarketing: I dunno . {vocalsound} Does it have legs ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah sure .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nProject Manager: Yeah not exactly legs but {disfmarker} More like fins\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Stumpy stuff .\nProject Manager: or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: It's more like a tank . Yeah that's fins\nIndustrial Designer: They kind of l look like mole legs . With sharp nails on .\n",
      "Marketing: but I don't know where . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Some spots . Ah some eye .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: it's l looks very friendly . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah that's a fr {vocalsound} friendly turtle I guess .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah well I think it's uh fair enough .\nProject Manager: Yeah okay .\nIndustrial Designer: A little tail maybe .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Right . {vocalsound} I don't know what the position is . {vocalsound} Does it have ears ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh no .\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: No . Oh okay .\nIndustrial Designer: The little holes maybe .\nMarketing: Can you erase ears\nProject Manager: Yeah yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: There's a a gum ,\nMarketing: Yeah ? Alright .\nProject Manager: gum to {gap} .\nMarketing: Eraser .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And why did you choose this animal ?\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: He said it was slow .\nMarketing: I dunno . I it just came into my mind . So there's no particular reason\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: I {gap} pen .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I like it . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . Well I'm {disfmarker} guess I'm done .\nProject Manager: Okay . {gap}\nMarketing: That's my turtle .\nProject Manager: Your turn Niels .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: How to select the next or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: The next\nMarketing: here .\nProject Manager: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} Colours were under format\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Makes new paper .\nMarketing: Here you go .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: right ? Let's see .\nProject Manager: Orange .\nIndustrial Designer: How am I gonna do this ? Um {disfmarker} Mm uh .\nUser Interface: A rabbit I think .\nProject Manager: Kangaroo .\nUser Interface: Kangaroo . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Not quite actually .\nUser Interface: Fox .\nMarketing: A fox yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Dog .\nMarketing: Firefox .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nProject Manager: Cat .\nIndustrial Designer: Aye . {vocalsound} It's a cat .\nProject Manager: It's a cat .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Not quite yet through .\nMarketing: A cat who had an accident or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Why a cat ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh yeah I dunno . They're my favourite pets .\nProject Manager: You have some uh ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh I have colour already . Yeah I'm not so good at drawing with this kind of\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} The pen ,\nIndustrial Designer: st Oh shit . Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Excuse my language .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Sure . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I don't know how to draw its face . But you get the idea .\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Alright .\nIndustrial Designer: It's a cat . It's my favourite uh pet animal , 'cause they're cute , they're independent and cuddly , I dunno . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: That's it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Or do I need to use more colours and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {gap} I think it's okay . You get idea\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nProject Manager: right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay um\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: we have a financial aspect to this project . {vocalsound} Um we can sell them at twenty five Euros . Uh the aim is to reach {disfmarker} uh uh to sell as much as fifty million Euros . Uh that's quite a big amount of money . And the production cost should be the half of the selling price . Okay\nIndustrial Designer: So we have to s\nProject Manager: now it's time for some discussion . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: What uh what uh do you want to discuss ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We should get started .\nUser Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh I'm taking notes . Um\nMarketing: Okay . Great .\nProject Manager: we each have a specific task , as I saw in my mail . I didn't know if you received the same mail .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: I guess so . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay so the um {vocalsound} uh {gap} this industrati Industrial Designer should produce a working design . Am I correct ?\nIndustrial Designer: True .\nProject Manager: Okay . Uh the User Interface Designer should specify the technical functions . Right ? Yeah ?\nUser Interface: Yep .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} And the Marketing uh Expert should come up with user requirements .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh did any of you already do some work on this part or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well I started making an overview for myself , um what I had to do , 'cause we have three design steps and in every step I have a s specific task to perform or whatever .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: So I had to uh , {vocalsound} I dunno , make an overview for myself about what I have to do ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and kind of let it work in to get ideas about well how I have to fill it .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . And do you have any ideas about the product uh so far ?\nIndustrial Designer: Well I started I started with the first phase , I think was the functional .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: And uh let's see I had to focus on the working design , which you said .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: How does the apparatus work ? And well I basically had two points . Uh {vocalsound} according to the coffee uh machine example , I have batteries to supply energy ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and we ye use button presses to activate or deactivate certain functions on the T_V_ .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: And that's basically all I have so far .\nProject Manager: Yeah I got another point . It uses infrared light to communicate the signal to the T_V_ apparatus or stereo .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Wireless uh {disfmarker} huh .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: So that's very common .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh it's uh some buttons for for the on off function . You d you already told that . And for the changing up to the {disfmarker} to all the channels and changing the volume . That are the the basic options for a remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah I kept it global 'cause {vocalsound} {disfmarker} that it activates or deactivates specific functions ,\nUser Interface: Okay , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: 'cause I wasn't thinking yet about that . I mean , you wanna ch ch flip the channel\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: but you might wanna use teletext also .\n",
      "User Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I dunno what the word is in English . Uh {gap} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Same I believe {gap} .\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh and what did the Marketing Expert do ?\nMarketing: Uh well from a marketing uh {vocalsound} perspective , um well the function des design phase uh consists out of the user requirements .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: Um what needs and desires are to be fulfilled ? So there are a few means to reach that um by by doing research {vocalsound} uh to see what existing products are there out in the market .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: I mean , what functions do they have .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: Um especially what are their shortcomings ? Are there any new functions uh which can be added to our product ?\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: Um therefore we have to to do some internet search . For example for um well what kind of applications do current remote controls support , and what are f featur features of uh current and future televisions ?\nProject Manager: Yep . Yes .\nMarketing: So we can see uh what needs to be supported . Um {vocalsound} and we can interview current users and future users . What w what would they like to see uh on a new remote control ? Um especially for future users ,\nProject Manager: Okay . Okay .\nMarketing: uh I'm thinking of early adopters , because they they use new technology first ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: and they play with a lot of tools and stuff so maybe they have some good ideas to uh to add .\nProject Manager: Okay . And you can get that information ?\nMarketing: I think I can get that information , yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . That would be very handy .\nMarketing: So {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: Um but have you any idea so far as what uh the user requirements are ?\nMarketing: No n not specifically .\nProject Manager: No ?\nMarketing: More to how to get them\nProject Manager: No okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I got some uh requirements\nMarketing: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah ?\nUser Interface: it has uh {gap} it has to be user-friendly .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Of course .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Obviously .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh really easy to use buttons , not not uh very small buttons , but not the the also the big big buttons , but just normal buttons . It has to be a small unit . It has to be uh {disfmarker} yeah , you can take it with you uh everywhere in in your house . So it has n has not to be l yeah , gigantic uh machine .\n",
      "Project Manager: Big , mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh and a and a good uh zapping range . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh what do you mean by that ?\nUser Interface: Uh the distance uh from your television to your uh remote control has to be , uh yeah um yeah , quite a big distance .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: It has to be capable for zapping uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . From the other end of the room or something ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay um {disfmarker} Well I don't think I have anything more to add at the moment . Um I think the best is to go to work .\nIndustrial Designer: Whoa . Is that you\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: or {disfmarker} alright .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Any more points to discuss ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . I think we can go ahead with what we have . I will summarise the things we discussed and put it in the project folder . Uh the use of the Industrial Designer can work on the working design , etcetera etcetera . And it seems you get more information by email . So {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Alright .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nProject Manager: that was it for me .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: 'Kay . Thanks .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Are you going to put the the notes on the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , in the project folder . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . The pro okay .\nUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I'm writing very fast . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . Okay .\nProject Manager: Hope it's readable .\nUser Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Uh .\nProject Manager: Okay {vocalsound} um anything more you want to add to the discussion ?\nMarketing: I guess so .\nIndustrial Designer: Well no I'm just a bit wondering what we're gonna do the next uh session ?\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . Do we only have to to do uh phase one , the functional design uh ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . Because then we have a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: After that we are going to the conceptual uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Y you do some individual work ,\nMarketing: We're just working the three phases .\nProject Manager: we have meeting , individual work , meeting . And at the end of the day we have a final meeting . And then I have to prepare {disfmarker} uh I have to defend our design ,\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: so make it good . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah okay . We'll do our best .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: I depend on you .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Better make it {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I am gonna work on the conceptual design already 'cause yeah it's fairly important to know what kind of components we want to put in .\nProject Manager: Yeah ? If you can mix it it's okay . Mm-hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Do we {disfmarker} I mean , is it gonna be a multimedia control centre ? Do we want to be able to use the video recorder with it ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} That is my question also\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: because like new new functions {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well I think that is the user requirements part .\nMarketing: Requirements . Yeah .\nProject Manager: As to what they want . Uh do they want all those functions on that small {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . True .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But but we need good communication about this stuff ,\nMarketing: Unit .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: 'cause I have to f put the components into the design .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: I would first m\nIndustrial Designer: So if I don't know what components to put in , it's kind of hard .\nMarketing: Yeah well\nProject Manager: Yeah I understand .\nMarketing: I I was {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . I I think we have first to start with the basic functions and we can uh expand them .\nMarketing: Yeah\n",
      "Project Manager: You can always add a few {disfmarker}\nMarketing: well like l li like some like some some remotes who are out there , which I know , there's one button which is very easy to switch between devices .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: So you can switch to your video\nProject Manager: Hmm ,\nMarketing: and then the same buttons control your video .\nProject Manager: the C_D_ player . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: And another function I'll think of switch to your media centre , because that's getting very popular .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: And then use your Windows media centre {vocalsound} under your T_V_ with the same remote control . So with the switch , one single switch {gap}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I I know what you mean , but you'll ne need several other buttons for a video player .\nMarketing: S\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: You need a play and a forw fast forward and a stop function .\nMarketing: Yeah\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: And you you don't need that for a T_V_ .\nMarketing: records and stuff like that .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And and for a t uh teletext you need additional buttons as well ,\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: You need additional {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so I kind of need to know what we uh need .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Whatever , I'll just put my ideas in uh in here\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: and then we can discuss it with the next uh meeting .\nMarketing: In the project uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: We could just start with the assumption that's only for T_V_ and video . And um reserve the possibility to add other features .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: So we have a basic starting point\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: and you can always extend that so make sure it's extendible . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah it it has yeah it has to be user-friendly .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So it's hasn't {gap} {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Th the least amount of functions possible\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so it's easier to get to know how it works etcetera .\nUser Interface: Okay . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . I understand . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah ? Okay and uh I'll see you again uh when the computer tells us to .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , you're di dismissed .\nUser Interface: Can we leave now\nMarketing: Half an hour .\nUser Interface: or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Thanks . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} You're fired . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Not yet .\nMarketing: No .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: Alright let's move on .\nProject Manager: Let's see what we got to do .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} See you later .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah see you later .\nUser Interface: Good luck . {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 6283,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 16,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager invites teammates to brainstorm animal characteristics on remote control function and suggest a reflection on user experience to improve technical function design. Price goal is 25 Euro, profit aim is fifty million Euro, and sales goal is four million. To summarize, the function design will be user-friendly and practical, in which the technical function will be portable phone based, hand-sized, light with limited but all-functioned buttons.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Here we go . Welcome everybody . Um , I'm Abigail Claflin . You can call me Abbie . 'S see . PowerPoint , that's not it . There we go . So this is our kick off meeting . Um and I guess we should all get acquainted {vocalsound} . {vocalsound} Let's {disfmarker} shall we all introduce ourselves ?\nMarketing: Hi I'm Chiara , I'm the um Marketing Expert . Um , would you like me to talk about my aims at the moment , or would you like me to just say my name and then we can talk about business later ?\n",
      "Project Manager: I think we'll get around to that , yeah . So this is just introductions yeah .\nMarketing: We'll get round to that later . My name is Chiara and I'm the Marketing Expert .\nProject Manager: Okay . I forgot to s say I'm the Project Manager but I figured you all knew that already ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} um so .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I'm Stephanie and I am the User Interface Designer .\nIndustrial Designer: I'm Krista and I'm the Industrial Designer .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . Um so f here's our agenda for today . Um we're gonna do some tool training , project plan and discuss then close . {vocalsound} Um so . So our aim is to produce a remote control that is original , trendy and user friendly . And to do this , we have to {disfmarker} um there's certain things we have to consider about functional aspects and conceptual design of the thing . So . We'll get to that . Oh there it is . Right . Functional design , conceptual design and detailed design . So throughout our next couple of meetings we'll we'll be covering these things . Um {vocalsound} so we're gonna try out our white board . If we'll all draw our favourite animal , to sum up the characteristics of that animal . Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: So you want us to draw it and then talk about it ? Or just draw it ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I think both . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Both . Yeah {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Okay . Why don't we do both . Right .\nMarketing: Who starts ? We ought to decide who starts and {vocalsound} all that . No ?\nProject Manager: Any volunteers ?\nMarketing: Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: Does anyone know what they wanna draw ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Mm , I gotta think about it for a second like . Uh {disfmarker} Does it have to be {vocalsound} functional , trendy and user friendly ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I don't think so .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Um . Okay , I'll draw . I'll draw one .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nUser Interface: Make sure {gap} my things here . Uh-oh . Right . Okay , my favourite animal is {disfmarker} see . {vocalsound} Oops .\nProject Manager: A dolphin .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , it's {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'S like playing Pictionary .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , I guess it has a fin on top too , yeah . {vocalsound} It's my dolphin .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So what characteristics do you like about your animal ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I like its tail .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Um , no , I think dolphins are really uh {disfmarker} I dunno , they're smart and they they're cute and they like swimming and that's cool , like {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} They're graceful .\nUser Interface: they're graceful yeah , and they're so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Sleek {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah they're sleek\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: and they look intelligent and I don't know , they're {disfmarker} I guess it's the whole like binocular vision thing .\nProject Manager: I don't know how intelligent that one looks {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah he he doesn't look that smart {vocalsound} . He's a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I dunno um they're {disfmarker} I think it's cool the the um {vocalsound} the interaction that or the th things that {disfmarker} the reasons people seem to like you know {disfmarker} you get ex you know people are sitting on the beach and p they're like oh look there's dolphins and it's kinda like {vocalsound} {disfmarker} but they're you know they jump around in the water and they're happy and they're mammals , but they swim . {gap} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yes . {vocalsound} Does anybody else wanna draw their animal ?\nIndustrial Designer: Suppose I can draw an animal , yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh-oh there goes the ten .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It's a cat . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I don't know . They sleep all day , {vocalsound} they're easy to draw {vocalsound} .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you wanna {gap} anything ?\nMarketing: Uh yeah .\nProject Manager: I dunno if the the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I think the pen is running out of {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Well I had the cat as well , but uh I've got a spare one .\nProject Manager: ah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So I'll use the spare one . Um but it's harder to draw {gap} um .\nUser Interface: And the pen's dying {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: Um .\n",
      "Project Manager: A horse .\nUser Interface: Horse .\nMarketing: Uh . Um I don't {vocalsound} really know how the legs go ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's very good .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: but anyway I will do that . Um , and the main reason is they're pretty . I think they're very pretty and they go well with the environment , and I like the way they run and I used to do horse riding and they're just very sort of sturdy and nice animals . And I like the way um they feel , sort of under under the hand , I think that's pretty much it . Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {gap} Yeah . This cord's {disfmarker} {gap} Uh . Right . Actually I haven't thought of anything yet {vocalsound} . Uh {disfmarker} It's a pig .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So I'm thinking we should design a remote control that's water resistant , strong and furry . What do you think , yeah ? This is {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: And furry .\nProject Manager: yeah , well like a cat , you know , soft yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Textile {disfmarker} tactile , {vocalsound} tactile remote control .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Although {disfmarker} uh I'll just put there . Right .\nUser Interface: You're dragging a {disfmarker} you have a tail {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {gap} Oh my gosh , this is disastrous . Sorry about that . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} So moving on . Our selling price goal is twenty five Euro and profit aim is fifty million Euro . So I'm guessing that we're not actually in Scotland , we're in some European country {vocalsound} . Um , and we will hope to sell this internationally .\n",
      "User Interface: Sorry can you just say that {disfmarker} what's the {disfmarker} what are our price goals again ?\nProject Manager: Um selling price is twenty five Euro . Profit aim fifty million Euro .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: How many should we sell then ? {vocalsound} Um , a lot ,\nProject Manager: Anyone a mathematician ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: two two two million , {gap} two mi no , more f four million .\nIndustrial Designer: Two million .\nMarketing: Four million . And it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: well it's the profit so if a profit for each is twelve fifty , that'll do four million .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh , yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It is a lot . Uh .\n",
      "Project Manager: So f that's a fifty percent um uh . Um , I don't know what these mean because I didn't actually make the slide-show . Experience with remote control . So I guess we have to reflect on our experiences with remote controls to decide what um we would like to see in a convenient , practical , nice remote control . Um so do we have any initial ideas for uh how this remote control should be designed or formatted or the the buttons it should have .\nMarketing: Um , I think one thing is that it should be easy to find\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I was thinking that too .\n",
      "Marketing: bec yeah {vocalsound} bec\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: I think we should design something that has like a {disfmarker} so you can {disfmarker} like somehow like you {disfmarker} I mean you always know where your T_V_ is , so just have a call button ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I've always wanted that ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: so like {vocalsound} you can push a button on your T_V_ {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah yeah yeah yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: I mean you have it for the portable phone , so why not {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah yeah yeah , so you should have a call button on your television to be able to find your remote control .\nMarketing: Yeah . And even I think a little light . Um or even a {disfmarker} maybe a vib a vibrating thing . I dunno but someth because it's usually under the sofa .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: In which case you're going to be l but if it has a sort of signal which isn't any sound {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I don't know if it's expensive maybe to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I don't {disfmarker} yeah I mean it {disfmarker} but like I mean {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Maybe call is enough . But yeah .\nUser Interface: just I mean like your phone even just has so {disfmarker} like it can vibrate , it can light up and make noise and I dunno {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah yeah yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: What if it had something like um just like a magnet on the back of it and you could {disfmarker} I mean j just to have some place to put it besides like a base . You know like a portable phone has a base ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah , or if it had a {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: like just to have a home for it .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Cause people just stick it on top of their T_V_ , but the point of having a remote is not to have to walk over to the T_V_ , so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I mean {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's why it's always in the couch .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Yeah , in in the couch {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: I dunno , it seems like though that that would be hard , 'cause you not you're not gonna be lazy anyway and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Maybe we should design couches that have the remote control in the side arm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah so we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the project is now couches and remote controls .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} But even just a thing to attach it to the w you know if you had a thing , a pretty object attached to the wall . But that would really make it more expensive .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: But it's only a plastic thing , r really , the thing on the wall .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Something like that .\nProject Manager: Do you think it needs to be bigger to not lose , or does that not factor in ?\nMarketing: And the other thing is {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Bigger .\n",
      "Marketing: Not {disfmarker} well it needs to be sort of {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Like Hand hand held size , yeah .\nUser Interface: Hand-sized .\nMarketing: Yeah . I don't think you need a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Not not huge , but {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But definitely not {disfmarker} well I don't know .\nUser Interface: It can't be that hard to put some kind of a noise on it .\nMarketing: No , it can't be , uh-uh .\nIndustrial Designer: No it really wouldn't be .\nProject Manager: Huh .\n",
      "User Interface: Or like or like a light thing . You know . I dunno {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Like spaceship .\nUser Interface: . Yeah {vocalsound} . Or make it mobile so it runs around and comes come find you yeah {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That would be really {disfmarker} I'm sure we could do that for twenty five Euros a pop .\n",
      "Project Manager: Little homing device . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah {vocalsound} . Uh .\nProject Manager: Okay . So what do we think this remote control should {disfmarker} Five minutes .\nMarketing: Oh dear .\nProject Manager: Till the meeting {disfmarker} oh right . This is what we have left . Um , oh we just {gap}\nUser Interface: I also think though that it shouldn't have too many buttons ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I agree .\n",
      "User Interface: 'cause I hate that when they have too many buttons and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} B_ button and the F_ button , they don't do anything .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: I mean I know it has to have enough functions but like , I don't know you , just have like eight thousand buttons and you're like , no , you never use half of them . So .\n",
      "Project Manager: You {disfmarker} what if um may be a little fancy but what if it had like a little screen , so it has less buttons but it still has all the functions . Like the way a mobile phone does .\nUser Interface: That would be cool .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . I mean it just seems like {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So you could like um {disfmarker} like if you have I dunno if you have satellite if you have a hundred channels , you can {disfmarker} the way you do it on your radio is that you uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: what do you call it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Select . Uh .\nProject Manager: s y yeah but you can programme , so you can programme like your favourite channels , so like if you had a s\nMarketing: But , would you have the screen on the thing , or would you have it on the telly transmitting the screen .\nProject Manager: That's something we could decide . Mm .\nMarketing: Because {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I guess they would go together somehow ? I dunno .\n",
      "Marketing: Because , I don't know if it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I think it's e expensive , if you have {disfmarker} if you use the telly screen , 'cause the telly's already a screen , then you can pro sort of have a programming function , really easy sort of arrow up and down , on the remote ,\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: and then use the telly as a screen .\nProject Manager: Right .\nMarketing: But um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I'm thinking kind of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: But yeah for sure . Something like not {disfmarker} it's not on the button but it's telling you what to do ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: is that what you mean ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Right . Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: Or like you h you see those you know people {disfmarker} I'm thinking of like celebrity cribs kind of things when like they have all those {disfmarker} these things that at their house you know {disfmarker} their their entire house is so electronic , and they have like this one master control that {disfmarker} and it's like a hand held like {disfmarker} turns on everything sort of control and it has like a screen and like {disfmarker} so I think it should be possible to have some kind of a screen , I don't know if {disfmarker} it must be {disfmarker} it would probably {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: must be ex too expensive though t like I dunno .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: But like mobile phones have screens and they're cheap .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah . Yeah that's true .\nProject Manager: Yeah . I mean , we have to remember our budget is twelve point {disfmarker} twelve fifty for {disfmarker} to actually make the device .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Um but it's something to think about , yeah .\nUser Interface: Well , I guess we have to get to that later , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: I mean we'll have to see how much that would be .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or some {disfmarker} it i we can find out probably on the internet {vocalsound} how much it's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Um . Yeah , and the other thing you said that thing about robust and water um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: What was the word ?\nUser Interface: Furry .\nMarketing: Water resistant .\nProject Manager: Oh I was just {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No but it's {disfmarker} I thought , ah , spot on .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Good feel , tact tactile , good tactile feel ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: maybe something didn doesn't make your hands sweat lot .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Mm , mm .\nMarketing: That's quite annoying .\nProject Manager: Maybe um just like a simple thing to have a clip on it , like so you can clip it to your {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: like that's another {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , clip . Ooh {vocalsound} . Um .\nProject Manager: Um . We should probably start wrapping up , um we've got some initial ideas that we can all look into . Um , and come up with some new ones for the next meeting , which will be in another thirty minutes . Um . So . Yeah . The Industrial Designer , what does that stand for , I_D_ ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I think so .\n",
      "Project Manager: yeah {vocalsound} um is going to be looking more into the working design . So I guess you'd be looking at lots of the things we discussed about screen and um that sort of thing . The something , what is the U_I_ ?\nIndustrial Designer: User .\nProject Manager: Yeah , what does it stand for again ?\nUser Interface: That's me . Uh , User Interface design .\nProject Manager: User Interface Designer . So that's gonna be more technical . I guess that maybe the working design has also to do with like the physical feat like just the way it looks and the way it w\nUser Interface: So technical function .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: The working design is the structure .\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: What is technical functions exactl I I don't really know what {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Um , I guess you'd have to find out {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Um .\nMarketing: It says on that email but it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: It was in the email .\nUser Interface: It does but it {disfmarker} I just don't really {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I wrote down what mine were .\n",
      "Marketing: It said um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: It said {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} What effect should the thing ha should it have , okay . Alright .\nMarketing: Yeah\nUser Interface: And working design .\nMarketing: like {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Be a medium between you and the telly I think ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah . Alright .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: that's uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: And how it works , okay . Right . I'm I'm on task .\n"
    ],
    "length": 4979,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 17,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "After Project Manager recapped the decisions made in the last meeting, such as having a child lock and display clock, User Interface started the presentation regarding how to make the interface more attractive to customers. Then, Industrial Designer gave the presentation on the component design of the remote, which was divided into two parts - the components in the remote and the working design. Afterwards, Marketing reported findings for marketing like the people wanting fewer buttons which the functions were obvious. In the end, Project Manager wrapped up the meeting, concluding what had to be done by each of them for the next meeting.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Okay . Hello everyone . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Hi .\nUser Interface: Hi .\nMarketing: Hi .\nProject Manager: Um how uh how we doing ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , good .\nProject Manager: Uh first we going uh over the minutes of the last meeting , more or less .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um in the last meeting uh the marketing manager had presented uh her method of working , meaning gathering i suggestions from everyone to see how she best could market uh this this product at the {disfmarker} within the budget uh that was given . Uh in general {vocalsound} the idea is that it should be something that is not difficult to use . Um it's also an item that people lose a lot . So we should address that . And , of course , it should be something s s that is very simple to use . In addition to that to make it sell , of course , uh the marketing manager w wishes that it be very attractive ,\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: or like she says put some sizzle into it in one way or another so that the people are buying it now because , in particular with smaller items , that's a very important fact , 'cause um if they say , well , I go home and think about it , that won't work . Um also mentioned was it should be uh {disfmarker} it should have a very short learning curve . And maybe it could be sold by using a slogan .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Our technical manager has then said that she feels it should have a chip\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: that has infra-red bits and it has an interface controls w interface that controls the chip . Therefore , messages uh will be controlled in the same manner . There should be extra features like lid buttons , maybe a beep . If too many buttons are pressed , mm uh uh child lock um and uh maybe a display clock so that people could um {disfmarker} you could see the time , you know , what show they want to watch . Also mentioned was uh maybe different shapes . So the components of the thing should be button , bulbs , infra infra-red bulbs , battery , chips , wires , and maybe some kind of a holder uh for the for the uh item . Francino who is our um\n",
      "User Interface: Interface designer .\nProject Manager: interface designer um uh has mentioned that the {disfmarker} that it , of course , should have an on-off button , and also has mentioned an interesting feature that it should have maybe a channel lock . Particularly with maybe small children that they couldn't uh watch a channel that is undesirable . It should be compact . Her personal favourite was it should be T-shaped . And maybe have an anar alarm-clock . And the material should possibly be not of non-allergic nature . Uh the different systems uh that exist are infra-red or radio-waves . Uh maybe it should have uh electri electrici electricity saving feature .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And {vocalsound} even possibly a timer to {disfmarker} so that people can program {vocalsound} their favourite uh uh program on th right from the remote .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nProject Manager: Uh are we all in agreement that that's about what we discussed last time ? Okay .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , I think that pretty much is it . Yeah . Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , then we {disfmarker} I'm looking for three presentations . And uh I don't know whether the order matters much uh , I don't I don't think so , so whoever w wants {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay , I can start first .\nProject Manager: Yeah , okay .\nUser Interface: Okay . Now my slide , please . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , your slides . Okay . Oh , come on , close already .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And that's number two , right ?\nUser Interface: Three .\nProject Manager: Three .\n",
      "User Interface: Participant three . Yes . Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Now as an interface designer , I would give more emphasis on the interface , how the remote looks like so that it is sellable , it is attractive to customers . Next , please . Okay . Now the function of a remote is to send messages to the television . This messages could be uh switch on-off message or switch to next channel message or swapping the channels or switching onto a particular channel , like you can have the numbers one , two , three , four , up to nine .\nProject Manager: Nine what ? Nine channel uh switches ?\nUser Interface: Pardon me ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Nine channel switches ? Is {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yes , nine numbers . And then you have swapping of uh button\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: by which {disfmarker} using which you can swap the channels if you don't want to see the third channel you can swap it to the fourth channel or vice versa . Then it should have a next button , and next button channel by which you can keep on uh v uh mm eh scrolling the channels one by one .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Going to the nex next .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Next slide , please .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Then you should have a button which should which ca which can be used for increasing or decreasing the volume .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Then , there should be a button which can give subtitles for a particular program which is going on a television . For example , if you are watching a French program and you would like to have a subtitles in English , then there should be a channel which can trigger this mechanism in the television so that the user can see uh the {gap} the subtitles on the screen .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Then there should d uh there should be some buttons which can control features like the colour , colour of the picture , the contrast , sharpness , brightness of the picture . Now there should be a memory switch . There should be a mute button . Suddenly if if if uh uh viewer he gets a telephone call , and if he want he doesn't want to switch off the uh T_V_ , but he he can reduce the sound , he can bring the volume down and he can watch {disfmarker} he can uh {disfmarker} while talking he can watch the T_V_ . Now the most important feature I would like to have in my remote would be the speech recognition feature . It's an integrated progra programmable sample sensor speaker unit . So a remote can be th can be uh designed which can have the voice recognisers , you can record your own voice\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: which can be recognised by as voice recogniser in the television , for example , if you want to see {disfmarker} we if you want to see the ninth channel if you say just say ninth channel , uh th now the the {disfmarker} uh yeah , the remote will {disfmarker} automatically it will switch to the ninth channel .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So the T_V_ will have some recogniser which will recognise the user's voice and accordingly it will change its functionalities .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So this is one of the very important feature a remote control can have . So this is one one of the interface which can be created .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: A very simple interface which has all the t uh uh important features .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Then , please , next slide .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Then , these are some of the remotes which are different in shape and colour , but they have many buttons .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: So uh sometimes the user finds it very difficult to recognise which button is for what function and all that . So you can you can design an interface which is very simple , and which is user-friendly . Even a kid can use that .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So can you go on t t uh to the next slide . Yeah , so this is one of the interface or one of the remote which has this vi voice recogniser .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: And this has multi-purpose use , it can be used for T_V_ , it can be used for cable-satellite , it can be used for V_C_R_ , D_V_D_s and audio . And this has in-built voice recogniser .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Can you go on to the next slide ? Yeah , now this is an interface for a chil uh for a remote uh uh which a child can use .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh this is user-friendly , it's very attractive and uh children can use it as well as they can play with it . And this comes with different colours , different shapes .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: And this this uh child uh interface has minimum buttons\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and all the important uh buttons are there in this small , compact , attractive child interface . Next slide , please . Now this is a big over-sized remote which cannot be misplaced or it's impossible to misplace .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: You don't know me .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound} {gap} this . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I could lose that in a minute . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: So this is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} No this is a very big , you cannot {vocalsound} misplace it anywhere .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} So this is a jumbo universal remote control and it's impossible to im misplace or lose . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: This i this is one such interface which can be created . {vocalsound} And the personal preference {vocalsound} uh would be a spe uh uh to incorporate speech recognisers uh which will respond to user's voice for a particular uh function .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Right .\nUser Interface: Thank you , that's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay , thank you very much . Uh any comments on uh her presentation ?\nMarketing: Well , um looks like we still have quite a choice of things out there .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Um what uh {vocalsound} I'm {disfmarker} No suggestion's bad .\nUser Interface: Mm yes .\nMarketing: But uh we're gonna have to narrow it down a little more . I don't think that we can get uh {disfmarker} The T-shape is good , the child one is good , the too big to misplace , I think it's just funny .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Um I don't think that's gonna be our impulse purchase at the checkout counter .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , I I th I think {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay . {gap} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: It's it's gonna be a little bit too unwieldy .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: No , I think the these are her presentations , but uh as far as the decision making we getting to that after after\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah mm . Mm-hmm . Have to come back to that later . Okay .\nUser Interface: We can .\nProject Manager: but if {disfmarker} I just wanted to know whether anybody had any any anything to add to her presentation .\nMarketing: No , I think her presentation was good , and she really explored all the options . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm right . Mm-hmm . Ho who wants to go next um ? Mm-hmm . Okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , maybe .\nProject Manager: and you {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Participant two .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh the next one , sorry .\nProject Manager: Oops .\nIndustrial Designer: It's it was the old one .\nProject Manager: The components design .\nIndustrial Designer: Components .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Um this time I'm I'm going to um concentrate more on the components and the technical side of the remote controller design .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , can you go on to the next slide , please .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: I have just brief {vocalsound} uh down few uh components which we require for the remote control uh construction .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh the first one is case to keep all the components like integrated circuit , battery , etcetera , etcetera , it's like {disfmarker} Uh it can be a plastic one , hard plastic , so that it can be strong , even if you just uh uh , {vocalsound} you know , if you {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if it falls down , then it doesn't {vocalsound} break . So it should be strong .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh uh there are no harmful materials used in that . And it should be recyclable .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh and uh {vocalsound} ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Good point .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah , and also uh using of colouring compon components like uh if we want to have different colours , blue , red , green , so uh uh we have to use uh some colouring compone compone components . And uh the second important thing is uh uh uh integrated circuit .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh which uh we can use a highly sophisticated one because it's like the it's like the heart of the remote controller . If it is not efficient then everything wi is going to be uh like um the lef ess less efficient so it {disfmarker} you should {disfmarker} we should have a highly sophisticated one . And it should be resistant to high as well as uh low temperatures . Suppose if it is thirty-eight degrees outside forty degrees outside , it should it should uh {vocalsound} be able to re uh resist the uh temperature uh uh highs and uh high temperatures and low temperatures . And uh it should be with uh {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} equipped with timer and alarm facility . And the uh other component we should {disfmarker} uh we have in the remote controller is a resistor uh which is like uh uh i it is very very much important for the electricity uh flow through {vocalsound} through through the uh remote controller and uh also a capacitor which is a b which is a m I think it's it's like a battery , capacitor . Can you go on to the next slide , please ?\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh a diode , a transistor , a resonator , these are all this uh technical uh electri electronic compons uh components which are {disfmarker} which we have to use in a remote controller . A battery uh , I would like to suggest one thing uh if we {disfmarker} uh if we will be able to make a res rechargeable battery then we sh we need not go for a high performance battery , even if it is a low performance battery it ca it can't l it can't charge much .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: It it it's not a high voltage battery . Then also we can {disfmarker} If it is a rechargeable one , then uh people can use it for a long time , so in that way we can cut cut the cost , but w uh uh that we have to make the battery as rechargeable one . And we we have a circuit board uh in a remote controller . Can you go to the next slide , please . And how it works , how the remote controller works .\nProject Manager: Go away .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Thank you . Uh when you press a button , when you do that , you complete a specific connection that means when you when you press a button there will be a s a small circuit underneath the button , and it will send some signals through the wires ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and then uh the chip will send start connection and knows that which button is pressed . Suppose you have pressed channel one button , number one you have pressed , then the uh chip will know that the number one button was pressed .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: It pros produces a mors morse code line signal specific to that button . Every button , every individual button , has its own morse code . Suppose uh the uh user has pressed butto button one , then it will have a spe the circuit will generate a specific morse code to b {vocalsound} that that button , and the transistor will amplify the signal and send then to the L_E_D_ which translates the signal into infrared light . Like {vocalsound} you have got a signal by pressing a button . That's a d a morse code has been generated by the integrated circuit . Now , that signal , that morse code , has to be amplified by the transistor . That is the use of transist transistor we {disfmarker} which we use in the remote controller . It will amplify the signal and it will send it to the L_E_D_ and which translates the signal into an infra infrared bits . The sensor on the T_V_ can see the infrared light , and seeing the signal seeing the signal re it reacts appropriately , that when it sees the amplified mo morse code signal , then it will uh it will uh know which uh what what action it has to uh do . Then it will do the appropriate action . So uh this is how the remote controller works .\n",
      "User Interface: It works .\nIndustrial Designer: Can you go to the next slide , please . Yeah , I have few pictures . When you look at the uh um remote controller uh it's it's {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} this is a normal remote controller . And {gap} to the next slide , please .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: And where we had a a few buttons and all . And uh if you open the remote controller you have this circui circuit board and few electronic components ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: like you can see a chip there which is having eighteen pins ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and also a capac uh a capacitor , three resistors and also a resonator uh um mm {disfmarker} yeah , and di and a diode transistor .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: The electronic components {disfmarker} uh all of the electronic components have all those uh things like a chip and d {vocalsound} diode transistors an Yeah , di um can y uh you can see the T_A_ double one eight three five labelled uh chip um .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh you can also see the uh uh the green {disfmarker} two green things are uh these are {disfmarker} they are {disfmarker} they are resistors ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and uh just beside that you can see a transistor , and a uh uh cylinder shape , uh that one is a capacitor . Uh and also there are uh {vocalsound} um resistors {disfmarker} uh sorry , ther there is a diode .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Can you go {disfmarker} go on to the next slide .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So uh this is the circuit board . The green one is a circuit board . Actually , uh building a circuit bo board is pretty pretty uh easy and also it's a it's a l l inexpensive . Uh it's it costs less than what you print on a paper , because uh {vocalsound} uh when you {disfmarker} when you are building uh some circuits {disfmarker} some um uh circuits and also wires , it's it's better to go for printing , because uh you can build these kind of k circuit boards on a on a bulk and it's just printing , nothing like uh , you know , you don't need to use wires and all .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: It's not exactly wires we are using . It's just printing something on a board .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Tha tho those prints will acti act as wires and ci uh circuits . So th that green uh thing is a circuit board , and also you can see uh there are b s like uh um access for buttons , like when you press a button , the circuit under the button will be activated uh th it will it will he get some signals from it and it will uh it will ch its ch se send a signal {disfmarker} signals to the , yeah , um integrated circuit .\n",
      "User Interface: Transmit .\nIndustrial Designer: Can you go to the next slide , please . Uh so this is {disfmarker} these are the circuits un underneath the buttons . Uh can you see the black uh , round marks ?\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: They they are the circuits .\nMarketing: Yes .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Next , please . And um like uh we have uh designed uh before we have seen some uh few things like {vocalsound} instead off buttons we have some scrolls . Uh b but a b a push-button requires a simple chip underneath it , but whereas a scroll wheel requires normally a regular chip which is a higher price range . Like for s scrolls we have to go for a sophisticated and and k uh {vocalsound} uh uh full {disfmarker} a complete chip .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh and a as energy source we offer a basic battery , a more ingenious uh hard dynamo , um a kinetic provision of energy , more than what is that you shake casually to provide energy . So that also we can have in a battery , uh or we can use solar sells . Uh .\nMarketing: Hmm , that's interesting .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Uh yeah uh the product can be de delivered into different cases . Uh usually , the cases and card flat {vocalsound} that w we see usually uh d uh a normal remote controller .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Um .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: And you have more pictures . Uh we have five minutes to the end of the meeting .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , maybe d uh I have just one more slide , I think . Um . Like we can have a ma material such as plastic , rubber , wood , titanium , but titanium we can't use . Um and also for electronics we can use a simple and regular um re {vocalsound} or an advanced chip on the print , um also infra it includes the infrared se sender . Um yeah the uh {disfmarker} for the movie just to j develop uh samples and so spe sample speaker . An Yeah , that's it . It's all for me now ,\nProject Manager: Okay , well thank you .\nIndustrial Designer: thank you .\n",
      "Project Manager: Any particular comments by anybody ?\nMarketing: Uh yeah , on the scroll and the push-button , um ca you can achieve scrolling by repeatedly pushing a button ?\nIndustrial Designer: No , no , no , th the the the scrolling wheels are different , like you can go for a sw switches like buttons or scrolls , uh {vocalsound} which which we used to do before ten ten years before , I think .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Now , nobody uses that because you need you need a a k sophisticated chip and all .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So I think it's better we go for uh um ordinary buttons .\n",
      "Marketing: Um . We'll just go for push buttons\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah uh yeah , push-buttons . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Push-buttons .\nMarketing: for {disfmarker} in the interest of cost .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: We don't have a lot of time left and we will still have to make a decision , and the marketing expert has to present her her thing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Go right to my first {disfmarker} my next slide .\nProject Manager: Uh okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Um alright , my method is uh {disfmarker} I'm interested in what the competition is doing , and wanna see how we can make ourselves different from the competition , so I've really been looking at the press and the ads that are out there for other remote controllers . I s I {vocalsound} spend a lot of time on the internet um surfing around doing the same thing . And then when I'm out um in people's houses or at meetings or anything like that , I try to notice what kind of remote controls people have , and if it's convenient in the conversation I ask about it . And I would encourage you all to do the same . Um and my findings from this is that , you know , small is beautiful . Um people like something that really fits in their hand .\n",
      "User Interface: 'Kay .\n",
      "Marketing: Simple is beautiful . They don't want to have to squint at small print um , they want buttons whose functions are obvious , and they want um as few buttons as possible , and they don't {vocalsound} care for the mode thing . They want each button to do something . And eye-catching is important . It's gotta look cute , it's gotta look appealing . Go ahead , I'm trying to finish fast for you . Um {vocalsound} and our preference is , as far as I'm concerned , are we got to get to the market before the competition . Ours has to be {disfmarker} look really great and it has to come out before the others , so that we have a leg up on time to sell it and push it before other people get out their Christmas item . And we should develop one or two features we can really dwell on in our ad campaign . If we try to tell people it has too many great features , um the consumer just gets confused and we don't get anywhere . So we've gotta narrow our selection down to {vocalsound} li {vocalsound} two things , I think , that we gonna say are really great about our our our new product . And I've been looking around um at what designs {disfmarker} every year different things are popular . And in my research this year I found out that fruit and vegetable shapes are really popular . And people are tired of hard plastic and hard metal . They are more back into soft feel , spongy feeling things , things with maybe a little cloth on them . So those are things maybe we wanna look at as far as saleability of the item .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh that concludes the presentation of everyone . And what we really have to decide in this meeting is um the concept of the remote .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And uh so what do we think on the concept\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: of the remote ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: You wanna try to come back to yours , and limit yours a bit ?\nProject Manager: Y {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh yes , I would like to include this feature which is called as voice recogniser .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So speech recognition is most important as far as you're concerned ?\nUser Interface: This could be uh one feature which could be sellable .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but w\nMarketing: Yeah h that could that could that could be our star feature .\nProject Manager: I think that's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: That that {gap} be really good , yeah , I agree with that .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , but but I what I'm uh very very much doubtful how {vocalsound} how uh far it will work , because a speech recogniser like i it it has its own uh uh problems , issues .\nMarketing: Distance problem ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it's not distance problem it it's recognising a person's voice ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: like maybe different people will be having different voices , so it like it's uh {disfmarker} everything so i\nMarketing: Uh .\nProject Manager: Well , you you teach {disfmarker} You have to teach uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So to get a good recogni recognising system , it's a costly thing , I think .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No , it's it's , uh yeah , it it's like your recording of uh all uh um a question already , and then you're expecting an answer from th For example , you have a T_V_ system , I'm the user and my family members are the user ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: I will already record uh a question like , uh good morning ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: like around eight o'clock I want to see the news in the television .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So I'll say just good morning and the T_V_ will switch on . It will recognise my voice and will switch on .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , before we get too far off here um , the components of the concept is the energy . What kind of energy do we foresee ? Battery .\nMarketing: I think I think battery ,\nProject Manager: Battery .\nUser Interface: Battery .\nMarketing: and I think we all agreed on that .\nUser Interface: Yes .\n",
      "Marketing: That that's that's gonna be most cost-effective and the best thing .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay then {vocalsound} chip on print .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yep .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nProject Manager: And the case . And I think we all agree on the case , we wanna have something uh maybe bright , colourful .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Bright , colourful , trendy trendy design , and strong .\nUser Interface: And compact .\nIndustrial Designer: And also strong .\nUser Interface: Trendy design and compact .\nIndustrial Designer: Trendy , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Trendy design , compact and strong .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: User interface concept , uh {vocalsound} interface type , supplements\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That will be your area I think , right , Jana .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh . Um like the switches , like we use buttons for user interface .\nUser Interface: Push-buttons .\nProject Manager: Put uh k I guess uh for {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Push-buttons .\nProject Manager: yeah . And {vocalsound} Not sure what they mean by supplements .\n",
      "User Interface: And {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Supplements like different types of features buttons , like can have a f mute button or a swapping button .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well , I think that {disfmarker} Yeah ,\nProject Manager: Oh , like {disfmarker}\nMarketing: or {vocalsound} or like her speech recognition would also be a supplement .\nProject Manager: Oh . A what ?\nMarketing: Her speech recognition feature would be a supplement .\nProject Manager: Right , right , right , mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Recogniser . Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay , so why don't we put down speech recognition if possible pending some more research from our industrial engineer on how expensive that is .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Right .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . Uh our next meeting will be in thirty minutes , and the uh I_D_ is to {disfmarker} this is the individual actions to be taken until then , to have the look and feel design , and uh the U_I_D_ is supposed to {vocalsound} uh come up with the user interface design ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: and the marketing expert with the product evaluation .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: In this phase , the two of you , Jana and Francine , have to work together on a prototype using modelling clay , it says here .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} You will receive specific {vocalsound} instructions {vocalsound} will be sent to you by your coaches .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um if you have any questions , you know , you you can always uh contact me um or uh or your coach , I suppose . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Wherever they're hiding ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} so um I think we conclude the meeting here and we come back in uh uh thirty minutes , according to our timetable here .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 7460,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 18,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "In the discussion, team members did presentations and talked about the design of the remote control. Project Manager introduced the aim of the second meeting and new project requirement. Project Manager said that the team did not need to pay attention to teletext and lighting adaptive. Then Industrial Designer, User Interface and Marketing gave presentations respectively. Industrial Designer proposed that they could add software functionalities on programmable chips and could use the FPGA. User Interface focused on reducing the number of buttons and recommended navigation buttons. Marketing discussed a lot of ideas including using a speech recogniser, the size of the remote control and lighting adaptive options. In the end they discussed some topics like teletext and accessing the Internet.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: So we come again for the the second meeting .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Uh for the aim of this meeting now is to to make presentation about uh the work for each one .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And {gap} take the the decision about the the design and the functionality of the the remote control .\nUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And we have {disfmarker} think I got a new project requirement .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: So I think uh teletext becomes outdated . So the popularity of the {disfmarker} since the popularity of the internet ,\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: and I think we don't need lighting adaptive , so the remote control should be only used for the the television . And of course we should have our image {gap} in the in the design . So , let's start with the the industrial designer .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , alright .\nProject Manager: Or y you can use the whiteboard if you want .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker} Well I have a PowerPoint pr presentation stored in my in my personal folder\nProject Manager: Here .\nIndustrial Designer: so I I I think you can reach it from here .\nMarketing: Just go to explorer .\nProject Manager: Oh okay .\nMarketing: Or open . Participant two .\nIndustrial Designer: Participant two .\nProject Manager: This one .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Open uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh open . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Do you want to open {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Because it's open you mean . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right , so um I will talk about the the w working design and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} F_ five .\nMarketing: Slide show , view slide show , {gap} .\nProject Manager: Ah .\nIndustrial Designer: And um well I I will present my my first idea on how to build the {disfmarker} our new remote control for television .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So uh can you go one page down , please . So I think the first things to do is to define the hardware components neededs to achieve uh what we want to do .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So uh mm I'm thin uh {vocalsound} I think uh I I'll do a survey about what is uh what is available on the market and what what is the the cheapest possible {vocalsound} things we hav we can use . Then uh I will try with the technical team to to build a prototype and to see uh with uh h how this little box {vocalsound} would uh look look like .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And how an and we can uh start troubleshooting first uh com communication problems or things like that .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And when we are ready with this first prototype I I think we can add some software functionalities on a programmable chip like browsing by content or um things like that . Okay so can you go down uh {disfmarker} So , wha what I think {vocalsound} for now {vocalsound} is {vocalsound} we don't want to have a remote control w which is wired\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: so uh I think we u we can use a battery for the {gap} . Then two programmable chips for both software functionalities and communication . And the communication with the T_V_ set is uh made through uh infrared communication So uh this is the {vocalsound} the schema of the {vocalsound} o of the future uh remote controls\nUser Interface: Did you draw it ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Wow . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: so uh you can you can see the components , uh battery and uh the two chips goes to the infrared uh connection to the T_V_ set .\nUser Interface: This {gap} .\nProject Manager: This {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: What is the other chip for ? The one on top .\nIndustrial Designer: The one on top is for the um {disfmarker} well the functionali the functionalities\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: One is a communication .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and the the th red um {disfmarker} sorry the green one is is to {disfmarker} well , putting things together , um f transform the data into uh qu into the format to to {gap} uh to communicate with the T_V_ set .\nUser Interface: For men . To the {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: And , that's it . I think we should use a F_P_G_A_ for {vocalsound} for the functionalities which is easy to to t\nUser Interface: Mm . What is F_P_G_A_ ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: It's field programmable uh something array .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Gateway arrays .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: It's a field programmable gateway arrays .\nUser Interface: So why's it {disfmarker} how is it different from the Bluetooth ?\nIndustrial Designer: Well , uh a F_P_G_A_ is just a chip you can uh you can {gap} pr programme it uh wi with wh whatever you want .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Programme it .\nMarketing: Yeah {gap} .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh well the Bluetooth chip is just responsible to uh make the communication uh between uh the two devices .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} So this are the {disfmarker} they have to work together ? Or ? Do they have to work together or two separate choice {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No . Well , th the F_P_G_A_ will produce the the data to send .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Or it's something like {disfmarker} isn't hardware the first one ? And the second one is for the software .\n",
      "User Interface: Is the is the software par alri okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah to run th to make it run .\nUser Interface: Okay , okay .\nMarketing: That's it .\nUser Interface: So you can control {gap} if you want , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: No .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright and that's it for the working design .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So if you have any questions ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay , and how about the battery power ? Uh you mean that battery would be somewhere there and the remote contro the power to the battery comes through infrared ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh no no no no , I think uh we have uh to to uh have uh embedded uh b batteries in in the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nMarketing: Into the {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: yeah into the t .\nMarketing: more compact and uh {disfmarker} okay , {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh I I don't think it will need um {vocalsound} very uh much power to make it run , so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Mm . Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah . Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm . You can put it on the charger when uh you when you don't need to use it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . It's a good idea .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's right .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Having a charger rather than putting the battery cells always .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: People don't like it to have to buy the batteries when they run out .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Mm . Uh {disfmarker} mm .\nMarketing: We just make a small charger\nUser Interface: Y yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: and put it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You can i yeah .\nUser Interface: Because you are using because you are using Bluetooth , if some people have P_D_A_ they can use their P_D_A_ to control the T_V_ if they want to , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: That's a good idea .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Ma\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Also , but but {vocalsound} I I I think uh the the goal is to sell our remote {vocalsound} control .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I dunno . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Bu {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah we can change the b {gap} .\nMarketing: Our remote ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: we do not want to make it P_D_A_ . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S {vocalsound} okay , so charger for {gap} is the {gap} .\nProject Manager: Um .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} So is mine .\nProject Manager: It's mine . Participant one , no ?\nUser Interface: Oh . Yeah , this your {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm . Oh we have {gap} so let's move to to user interface design {gap} .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} So you can open uh {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Participant {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: three . Yeah . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} So I'm working on the technical functions design . {gap} can you show the next slide . So the the purpose is to to find uh the important questions to ask is what effect should the apparatus have . So {vocalsound} so I found on a webs on the internet\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} During the weekend .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {disfmarker} yeah . {vocalsound} I spent a lot of time searching {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's good . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and uh and I found that uh the function of remote control is to send messages to television set .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} For example switch on , switch off , switch the next channel and so on and so on .\nMarketing: G\nUser Interface: So I found two very good prototypes for {vocalsound} for this interface from our competitors\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: so can you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: This are usual functionality {gap} .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah , yeah . Ours is a bit uh different . So these are two example . One is from {vocalsound} {gap} the other one is from , yeah , uh engineering centr yeah .\nProject Manager: Tasks .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: This is the most competing prototypes I've found {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: But then uh loo but then I found if you look at {disfmarker} you see on the left one there are too many buttons {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And they are small {gap} .\nUser Interface: Yeah . O on the right I tried to play with {vocalsound} the problem is that uh if I have hundred channels I have uh I have to choo press the other button to choose the hundred channels and I have to compose the number\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: so it's very lousy .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} So you {vocalsound} so you move to the next the next one .\nIndustrial Designer: Of course .\nUser Interface: Yeah , so I talk about the problem . And then I I look at the user manual they are a hundred pages thick , so we don't want that .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} So I propose the easy to use uh prototype . You can navigate on T_V_ screen and we can {gap} the user's preference and we need to have the T_V_ connected to internet so we end {disfmarker} in order to access the T_V_ programmes by X_M_L_ and we need some {disfmarker} to do some preprocessing . From the technical aspect , the processing should be done on the T_V_ set than on the {vocalsound} on the remote controller , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} And then we {disfmarker} the speech recognition as uh Harry says we may just put in {disfmarker} we may K_I_V_ .\nProject Manager: What do you mean by the pa pa processing will be done on the T_V_\nUser Interface: Yeah , all the processing is done {disfmarker} the T_V_ is a compu has some processing power the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: than the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So we have to t\n",
      "Project Manager: So we should have specific T_V_ ? Or ? We can use this .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: We have to sell a T_V_ with the remote control too . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , we don't {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah because {disfmarker} {vocalsound} are you just wondering what controller {disfmarker} okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I think so . J j just the remote control .\nMarketing: Yeah , not the T_V_s .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I think there there is there is al there there is a a technology like show view who is already available on most of the T_V_ set on recorders or thing like that\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: and we can try t to get this information on to the remote control to to do the processing on the remote control because {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's right .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: So i the processing on on the remote controller {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah ,\n",
      "User Interface: so it can u be used in any T_V_ , any conventional T_V_ sets ?\nProject Manager: we {gap} . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm . Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Speech recognition .\nUser Interface: N yeah , that's all . The next one ? So I come up with a simple design , just keep the v navigation buttons . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , that's a good idea , I think .\nProject Manager: Keep the navigation\n",
      "Industrial Designer: We d we don't we we don't need really much buttons to {disfmarker} i if we have a screen to navigate on on the T_V_ so uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: but {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Well , f four five buttons , it's sufficient .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: It's easy to build ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: it does not consume much power . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , that's right .\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay , that's all . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Oh , but you have a catch there , um assume that um if you want to go to {disfmarker} if you are watching channel two and if you want to go to channel ninety nine , then {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Well , then y you you go to the main menu and uh you have uh go to channel\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and then uh you {gap} can {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm . No , because you choose by channel , so {disfmarker} you choose by T_V_ program\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh-huh huh huh huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe you {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: so you don't have hundred channels to choose from . If you go by channel , you don't have to do that .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm hmm hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {gap} but uh I I think i i {gap} if you if you want to to make uh {disfmarker} well a a big jump {vocalsound} {gap} but uh well you you have to to have a a a device when you could you could {disfmarker}\nMarketing: But {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So you are {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Ah . Ah , a big jump .\nMarketing: Yeah then yeah that's right .\nUser Interface: A mouse or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well , not a mouse but uh something that that says more clearly that uh right , left , up , down ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: well , the to have the ability to to to write something to the navigator , maybe directly , or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm hmm hmm . Okay .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: So ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: we can think of buttons like in the telephone to send messages or things like that .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: How the {gap} this remote ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But we'll see . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh it's gonna be small .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , of course {vocalsound} small .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . So it'll beep if you wanna find it\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {gap} too small that it goes under the sofa and we can't find it . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: you just uh shout {disfmarker} y h just {disfmarker} it just has to re respond to you when you look for the device .\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: that's {gap} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I dunno how bu {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap} just {gap} give it a name and we call him .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And {gap} responds to you , and {gap} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , that's right . Yeah , that's right .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , so uh next presentation {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Participant four . So Harry .\nMarketing: Okay , after having the inputs from {vocalsound} industrial design and user interface , I think most of the points which I want to are already covered here .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: And to find the most interesting features what the users would be interested , then what we have done is we have put a feedback forms in all the magazines , and the users send the feedbacks , and based on that {disfmarker} These are the findings which we got and {disfmarker} yeah adding of a speech interface is always good for a T_V_ remote but the technology {disfmarker} We already know that {disfmarker} as discussed earlier {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Well I I think it will be a , yes , a bit complicated to um make a speech recognisers runs on the small uh ts\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: An {vocalsound} it does {gap} how feasible it is .\nUser Interface: I- {vocalsound} mm . But I think if you {gap} to recognise numbers it's a well-studied problem . I if you just recognise uh numbers is a limited {disfmarker} you have limited vocabulary {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh we can put an limited vocabulary as in the mobile phones .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: We just have the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And this can allow to choose the the program , for instance without uh adding uh buttons\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so it's a good idea .\nMarketing: {gap} it's not going to take much space also . It's going to be very slim .\nUser Interface: Mm . Mm .\nMarketing: And next one was the size of the remote control . It has to be of course a very slim and small one . And of course most of the people are interested in if it's less expensive ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: so this is an important criteria here is {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: But do you think what they sug suggested s possibility {gap} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Mm .\nMarketing: I mean we have to look for a trade-off .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: The features and the cost .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I no {disfmarker} I I think that uh i if we go for quality people may tolerate for high quality and of course comes with uh reasonable cost .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Maybe not less , but they may be willing to pay little bit more for comfort ,\nMarketing: Little bit more if it's with extra features .\nProject Manager: It {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: yeah , extra features .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , s s speech is a important extra feature I think {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah . That's right .\nProject Manager: But is it useful or not u I don't know .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well , uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: There is {gap} in the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I mean , for a lazy guys they could say nine and the nine channel comes .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or they say movie name {disfmarker} or I don't go for movie names but only for the numbers on the channel , or volume up , volume down , brightness , contrast .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: So , I think this should be a good idea , to put this features . And the fourth one was the teletext in various languages .\nIndustrial Designer: we we just have to find a mean how to to add a m a a a microphone or uh well {disfmarker} yes a microphone into the the remote control , so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm , I think {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I {disfmarker} well {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think i {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: it will be alright . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} If it's necessary can {disfmarker} you can do that .\nUser Interface: What is the teletext ? Mm .\nProject Manager: We can integrate small microphone in the remote\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so it's not really a problem .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: What about lighting adaptive options ?\nMarketing: Yeah as discussed in the earlier meeting , but {vocalsound} I think uh not much people are really interested in this point if it's not really required .\n",
      "Project Manager: According to the re to the new requirements I think we don't need that . Yeah .\nUser Interface: It is interesting but we are only concerned with the remote controller .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: So you need s special T_V_ sets to do that ? Or it's it's done via this remote controller ? It's very complex .\nMarketing: I mean {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I think it's a bit complex too {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: I mean {disfmarker} yeah , it's for the um industrial design and users interface designers to decide if it's going to be working or not .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: For our next product , our new T_V_ set with uh automatical uh sound adjustment {vocalsound} light {gap} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I think {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , then we can conclude that . Yeah . Yeah , but it's quite possible but maybe not in this project .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we have {disfmarker} I think we have s still we have couple of minutes . Mm-mm . {vocalsound} So any things to to discuss ? Or any suggestions ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I think as I discussed th that four points would be good for um marketing .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: The speech interface and uh less uh reasonable uh cost .\nProject Manager: Expensive . Price .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: And the lighting adaptation\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: and the teletext . And regarding the teletext uh these are the subtitl these are the text information which you got on the televisions .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: If you are watching an foreign movie , you get {gap} subtitles sometimes .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: And uh if you are a French guy watching an English movie you would like to have it in French .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nMarketing: And if I am a German then I would like to have the {disfmarker} my options in German .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So , the remote {disfmarker} it should have some {disfmarker} it should give me some flexibility of choosing the ch languages .\nIndustrial Designer: Function .\nMarketing: That should be a good uh point .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but well what about the the new project's requirement ? I I I think we should give up with teletext , no ?\nProject Manager: I think we we can we {disfmarker} {gap} is the {gap} .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes . Well , so maybe we we can j we can already think uh {vocalsound} about a way to to access the internet via the television .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Because if {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Using the T_V_ to access the internet ? Or what ? I didn't quite understand {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but uh we can think that in a few years there will be T_V_ set that can access the internet .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So it's a good idea if i i if we i if if we uh think about how to to to build up our remote uh control w with this functionality in a {disfmarker} w which will c which will come in a few years .\nMarketing: We already have some {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: So if we already have it in our remote control {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So you have to anticipate the the future ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} The future demand , market demand . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , to desi\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , that's right .\nIndustrial Designer: well , not not to implement it , but to {disfmarker} well , to find a way to to add to add this functionality in a {disfmarker} yeah , in an in an easy manner , if is possible . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {gap} .\nUser Interface: The functionality in the future .\nProject Manager: In future .\nUser Interface: Alright . Yeah . Because all the T_V_ sets will be digital , right . All the programmes , everything will be in digital than analog . Th the system will change and we have to anticipate for those change .\n"
    ],
    "length": 6426,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 19,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager gave a brief introduction of the new remote control project for television sets. During team building, team members got to know each other by drawing their favorite animals with technical devices. When it came to the financial targets, Project Manager planned that the remote control would be priced at 25 Euros on the premise of the 12.5-Euro production cost, and the profit is targeted at 50 million Euros. The market range would be international. Then, ideas about new technical features of the remote control were proposed, such as radio waves and bluetooth, in order to distinguish the product from current ones. Finally, some general arrangements for the next meeting about user requirements and technical functions were made by Project Manager and each team member was required to think on the most important thing from their own point of view.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: Hi .\nIndustrial Designer: Hi .\nProject Manager: Hello .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh .\nProject Manager: Good morning .\nUser Interface: Good morning .\nIndustrial Designer: Morning .\nMarketing: Good morning .\nProject Manager: Uh before I start with the with the meeting I have a few things to tell you about the the setting we're in , uh because we're uh being watched by uh Big Brother . So um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: By Big Brother ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: This uh {disfmarker} These are cameras , so are these . This thing uh that looks like a pie ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: are actually all microphones .\nMarketing: Yeah . Okay .\nProject Manager: So you must be careful with uh with uh all this . And uh as I can see you uh you have placed your laptops uh exactly on the place where it must be . And that has to do with the camera settings , so we don't have our uh laptops in front of the cameras .\nMarketing: Of our faces .\nProject Manager: And {disfmarker} Indeed . So they can see our faces .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Welcome at the kick-off meeting . My name is uh Danny Wolfs . {vocalsound} Uh this is the agenda for today . Uh first a little opening . Uh I will introduce myself , uh and uh I think it's very uh good to introduce uh yourself . Uh then uh a little bit of acquaintance , acquaintance to uh to to ourselves . So uh we get to know each other . Uh that will be done uh with a tool training from the he these two uh smart boards . Then the project plan . What we're going to do , and how we're going to do it . Uh and discussion about that and a little closing at the end . {vocalsound} Okay uh , my name is uh Danny Wolfs . I'm the Project Manager . What's your name ?\n",
      "User Interface: I'm Juergen Toffs . I'm the User Interface Designer .\nProject Manager: User interface , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Hi , my name's uh {gap} . I'm the Industrial Designer .\nProject Manager: Industrial , yes .\nMarketing: I'm uh Tim {gap} . Um my function is the Marketing Expert .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , thank you . First a little about the project aim . Uh the the the aim is to make a new remote control . Uh maybe you have read uh read the website . It's a very uh , yeah , very uh ambitious uh company . They uh they wanna do something else . I w Uh there must be a new remote control . Uh first of all uh it must be original , uh and trendy . That's two things really uh close to each other . But at the same time uh user-friendly . And they have uh {disfmarker} Yeah , that's uh very important uh for them . Uh there are three stages . There is a functional design . So uh what are we going uh to uh to do ? What are we going to uh uh make f uh kind of functions in the remote ? And why are we going to do it ? Then the conceptual design . How are going to do it ? {vocalsound} And that's uh really global . Uh because at the detailed design , how , part two , uh we go uh to dig in uh really about how the the te the technical of {disfmarker} If it's uh it's possible technical-wise .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh each stage is uh {vocalsound} uh is broken up in two uh two stages , individual work and a meeting . So it's uh it's very straightforward . {vocalsound} Okay , the tool training . We have two smart boards . {vocalsound} This one is for the presentations , the PowerPoint presentations or the Word presentation of whatever you uh you had . Uh and this is uh only for uh drawing . So uh we uh must let it uh stand on this uh this programme . {vocalsound} This is called a smart board\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Speaks for itself .\nProject Manager: thing uh {disfmarker} Yeah , it speaks for itself . Um and as you uh may have heard , the documents in the shared folder uh can be uh showed on this screen . Not in y the the My Documents . So if you wanna show something , put it in the shared folder . {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} This uh is {gap} very straightforward , with the save , the print , the undo , the blank , the select , the pen . Well , I don't uh gonna explain it all ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: because I think you know uh how it works . Um we must not forget uh everything we draw on here , uh all must be saved . We we may not delete anything . So uh if you have uh drawn something , save it . Never delete it . That's a very important uh thing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . Uh little uh little {vocalsound} kinda exercise to uh know each other .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} At uh the white board on the left . Every uh every one of us uh must draw our favourite animal ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} and uh tell uh tell us why we uh had uh chosen that animal . Uh important is that we use different colours , {vocalsound} and uh different pen widths . Widths . Widths .\nMarketing: I have a question .\nProject Manager: Yes ?\nMarketing: Um this exercise , um did the company board tell you to do it ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: or uh did you just make it up yourself ?\nProject Manager: No no no . It's uh it's uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I I I must do it .\nMarketing: It's part of the introduction ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah , yeah . 'Cause we uh really don't know each other ,\nMarketing: okay .\nProject Manager: and uh it's kinda new . So getting used to each other , we can uh have a little fun then , before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff .\nMarketing: Okay . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: That kind of thing . Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animal ?\nMarketing: Um , yeah . I don't know really how it works . But maybe you can show us first ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , okay . Yeah , okay . Drawing goes with uh this thing . Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here . That's uh important .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So hold it uh like this .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , kinda . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good . Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds . It's not uh fully real-time , so uh watch it .\nUser Interface: Ach . {gap}\nProject Manager: Oh yeah . Well I'm gonna paint in the red .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Oh .\nUser Interface: Ooph .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's the background colour . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Well , undo . Um {disfmarker} The pen ? No . One minute please . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , that's the one . Well , five . Okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huh ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: It's like Pictionary ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , you can guess what it is .\nMarketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: It's a pork ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No , it's not an orc . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You don't see it uh at the ears ?\nMarketing: Mm yeah , I have it at home . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You have an orc at home ?\nUser Interface: Very artistic .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Thank you .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So it's a cat . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: What's it called ?\nProject Manager: Simba . 'Cause uh we have a cat at home\nMarketing: Ah .\n",
      "Project Manager: and he's called Simba . 'Cause he looks like the uh the the lion from The Lion King .\nUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Miniature size ?\nProject Manager: So we uh found it kinda cool to uh name it after a lion .\nMarketing: Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: He's happy with us , so uh he's smiling .\nUser Interface: Wow . He does have body uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Huh .\n",
      "Project Manager: No , only the face . Because we have we have twen twenty five minutes . So we uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay . We have to speed up .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Remember you use uh different colours , and different pen widths .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay , who wants to go next ?\nMarketing: I {disfmarker} Okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So choose a colour , choose a pen width and draw a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: You don't have to change the colour and the pen width during uh the drawing .\nMarketing: Save it .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: You have to save it .\nProject Manager: Save it , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I've done it . New ? 'Kay .\nUser Interface: You have to draw uh push hard on the pen or uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm uh {disfmarker} Not really .\nProject Manager: Kind of firm touch .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: That one .\nUser Interface: Oh . Uh hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah ? Okay . Open . Which one is it ? Smart board ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay . And now ? Okay . Okay , thanks . 'Kay , I've speed up . 'Kay , that's fine . Line width .\nIndustrial Designer: By the way , why was your cat uh red ?\nProject Manager: Because uh my cat is red uh at home .\nUser Interface: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh , okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And I have red hair , so uh must be red .\nUser Interface: It's a very bloody cat .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , yeah , sure .\nUser Interface: It's a frog . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No , it's a turtle . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh it's an apple . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It's not an apple .\nIndustrial Designer: Must be a dog . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: A dog ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Hmm . Colour . {vocalsound} Something like this . Smaller .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Huh ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Oh , it is a turtle .\nProject Manager: It is a turtle . Why a turtle ? Why ? Tim ?\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker} 'Cause I liked Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} You watched it a lot ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh ?\nProject Manager: You watched it a lot ?\nUser Interface: It's uh inside its shell . You'll be uh finished sooner .\nMarketing: No , it's uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's a scared turtle .\n",
      "Marketing: No no . {vocalsound} It's coming up . Mm . Uh .\nUser Interface: Wow .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , Tim . Thank you . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Something like this . {vocalsound} Okay , you know {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Very artistic .\nProject Manager: Jurgen , you want to go next ?\n",
      "User Interface: Yes {gap} . Okay . Wha Thank you .\nMarketing: Yeah ? Here you go .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: How did it work ?\nProject Manager: Format ? And then you have the the current colour ,\nUser Interface: Performance ?\nProject Manager: you can change . So no red or green .\nUser Interface: And a pen ?\nProject Manager: And uh line uh width . I had five .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Tim had {disfmarker} Uh Tim , what kinda line width did you have ?\n",
      "User Interface: Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh the big lines were like nine .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . It's a dog .\nUser Interface: Well , very good . {vocalsound} I just uh thought I'd pick the easiest one .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh .\nProject Manager: Okay . Why a dog ? You have a dog at home ?\nUser Interface: Well , we had a dog , a few years ago .\nProject Manager: Had a dog ?\nMarketing: Uh , it's p\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\n",
      "User Interface: And and it , {gap} yeah , when it died we didn't get a new one or something .\nProject Manager: Ah .\nUser Interface: But uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: It's pretty good uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You have an artistic uh inner middle .\nMarketing: {gap} {vocalsound} An artist .\nProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh a Graphical User Designer , so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Hey .\n",
      "Marketing: Think you uh picked the wrong uh function . Wrong job .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Oh .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No . Can work together . Ah colour .\nProject Manager: So I think you can see it's real uh really a easy programme to use . Not difficult at all .\nMarketing: Wha\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well ,\nProject Manager: Okay ,\nUser Interface: it's okay {gap} .\nProject Manager: thank you . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} That's enough ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: thanks . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Janus ? The last one ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , sure .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh thanks .\nMarketing: I wonder .\nProject Manager: Yeah . After a cat , a turtle and a dog .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I think he's gonna draw an elephant . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I figure I should do something like that ,\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: but I'm gonna do something much more difficult .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh-oh .\nUser Interface: Uh-oh . Oh , he is the artistic {gap} design .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I'm gonna design a remote uh {vocalsound} remote control animal . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Remote control animal .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Exactly . Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Sorry .\nUser Interface: Well with the interface , it might be easier to ha to draw here and display there uh .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nMarketing: That that might be easier . But at the other hand , uh a pen like that is easy to hold in your hand , and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No .\nMarketing: I think it's easier to draw .\nProject Manager: Better to draw with a with {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . With a pen than with a mouse mouse .\n",
      "User Interface: Than on the , with {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , I m I mean like uh like on here , drawing drawing uh . And then displaying on screen , but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mouth . Oh , okay . Yeah . W with this paper it's too mu too expensive . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: But what is he uh ?\nUser Interface: Too expensive , yeah .\nProject Manager: Is it a rabbit ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Do you have a rabbit at home ?\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: A green rabbit .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , exactly . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , then yeah .\nUser Interface: There , the g white green rabbit .\nIndustrial Designer: So .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit .\nMarketing: Yeah . It will do .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well .\nProject Manager: Okay . Finishing touch and then we're going further .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Project Manager ? Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go ? Just uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Have you been uh counting the time ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , a little . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay . Let's go on then .\n",
      "Project Manager: Well , I think the dog is the the most uh artistic .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Don't choose for youself .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , sorry . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's selfish . Okay , now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff .\nMarketing: It's pretty abstract .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro , and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro . So uh from my point of view , I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech , high definition , uh ultra modern uh kinda remote , for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new remote is uh fifty million Euro . So that's a lot . We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , how much is it ?\nMarketing: Like how much ?\nUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or something ?\nProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five , uh uh you got two million , two million remotes .\nUser Interface: Oh yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Twenty million . Two million , oh yeah , two million . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh , market range is international . So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to . At least that uh countries which have uh a television .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things . You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself , at home . What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature . What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others . Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little . I'm gonna join you at the table . {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote control ?\n",
      "User Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels . And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible . Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay . So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . I think so . Uh but I have some points . Can I show them on the on the big screen ? Maybe ?\nProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . Yeah , I can find {disfmarker} Uh .\nProject Manager: Okay . Oh , in case you want it {disfmarker} This is a dead kind of fly . Between the the the , yeah , the the uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Screen ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , be The screens .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Is it possible to open pen drawings in this uh on this screen ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No no no . Only {disfmarker} All the drawings go there , at the left uh {disfmarker} {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: Uh but um which {disfmarker} The ones we made on the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh , that pen drawings . Uh no , I think uh when it is uh in Word and you have saved it in the Shared Documents folder , you can show it there .\nUser Interface: Oh , only in Word ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: okay .\nMarketing: Okay , I have some uh points from marketing point of view .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Um just the standard thing li things like uh intuitive , uh small , fairly cheap . Uh it's pretty cheap , twenty five Euros . Uh brand independent . Um I think , it doesn't have to matter uh which brand your T_V_ or other thing is . Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay . Five minutes .\nMarketing: Five minutes ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay , I'll wrap it up quickly . Um I personally think it has to be multi-purpose .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh most of the remote c uh remote controls are uh just for one purpose .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: And uh by making it multi-purpose , it uh has a new feature , adds a new feature to the market , and distinguish from uh from current products .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Um maybe some other technology than infrared . Uh I rather find it very annoying um , like when someone is standing in front of the T_V_ then you can't switch it . Um {vocalsound} think about um sending it over radio waves or bluetooth .\nProject Manager: Okay . Okay .\nMarketing: That might be a little bit uh expensive . Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen .\nUser Interface: For what purpose ?\n",
      "Marketing: Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy . It's nice as an added feature feature , that um , {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel , you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay . So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uh\nMarketing: From my point of view , yeah .\nProject Manager: remote ? Yeah , it must be really uh innovative , technical-wise ?\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah , our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So yeah , I I agree with you .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So i i i i\nProject Manager: So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}\nMarketing: To the current market .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Look , {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there . They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah , you got a dozen of 'em .\n",
      "Project Manager: No .\nMarketing: But when you enter a new market with a remote control and\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: uh wanna gain market share\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: you have to do something special , I think .\nProject Manager: Yeah . But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project , it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about , well , this would be cool , that would be cool .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , of course .\nUser Interface: And and the price . {gap}\nMarketing: But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect .\nProject Manager: Yeah okay . Yeah . Okay .\nMarketing: I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: {gap} And that's because we have him . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And and him . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: And him . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , uh next meeting will start in thirty minutes . So uh you uh will have uh individual actions where I presume uh will be some feedback , uh via the m the mail . Um {vocalsound} the the the Industrial uh Designer has to uh look at the working design . {vocalsound} Uh the User Interface Designer has to look at the technical functions . So that's the thing we uh discussed .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Um one thing uh ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah ?\nUser Interface: we must first agree on uh what we're going to m going to make . Do we {disfmarker} Are we going to use um it it for multiple systems ? Or uh {disfmarker} We should have some agreement on that before we {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay . Um wha\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm uh I I don't think we have to be , we have to agree on that . Uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I figure we could get back to it on the next meeting actually .\nMarketing: I think th that's a pha Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: That's a phase further .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Ju just uh make some mock-ups , some some general ideas .\nUser Interface: Ah okay .\nMarketing: And and then we can plan {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: We can plan further , I think .\nProject Manager: Yeah . But maybe , because uh you are working on the user requirements , you are working on the technical functions , we uh must uh have a little or kinda uh uh uh {disfmarker} How do you call it ? Uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Consensus on the , what we're gonna do .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh a little plan on on what we're going to do . So you don't uh uh come up with the user requirements who don't fit the the the the technical functions at all . Some basic things we co we want to going to do . Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Will come in handy .\nMarketing: Mm yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I don't know . You decide . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: You're the Project Manager .\nProject Manager: W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: if the technical functions have to be designed , I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Or do we use it a text screen ? Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well , th that's that's really a step further . But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose , that's a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Uh tha that's a same step further .\nProject Manager: Why ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , actually it is .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Why ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Then looking at individual components ,\nMarketing: Uh .\nIndustrial Designer: so that's actually a f step further .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it , or how it has to be like . And then in the next meeting we decide\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , we can take it from there .\nMarketing: w what it's gonna be .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I agree uh , we can take it from there .\n",
      "Marketing: A And then you s then you can delete uh\nIndustrial Designer: Or edit .\nMarketing: the o the obsolete uh details .\nProject Manager: Okay . So uh\nMarketing: I think .\nProject Manager: each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important . And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: I must finish off now ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so it's over . You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach . And I see you in uh thirty minutes . Thank you .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n"
    ],
    "length": 6929,
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  {
    "id": 20,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was mainly about the exchange of the preliminary ideas about a new TV remote control project and subsequent task assignment. The project manager first set a target of making a fifty million Euros' profit from the project, with the unit price of twenty-five Euros. Afterwards, the team raised different opinions about features of the new remote controls and related questions about market potential. Among all the features, having a good look and size was unanimously considered to be the most essential. In the end, Marketing was assigned to investigate market competition and design, and User Interface thinking about shapes, colours and other attributes which would attract customers.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Uh , making a profit of fifty million Euros . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Alright so twenty five .\nUser Interface: Mm 'kay .\nProject Manager: So , it's go gonna have to be be pretty damn trendy . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So yeah , I've {disfmarker} The only the only remote controls I've used usually come with the television , and they're fairly basic .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: So uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , I was thinking that as well , I think the the only ones that I've seen that you buy are the sort of one for all type things where they're ,\nUser Interface: Yeah the universal ones . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: yeah . So presumably that might be an idea to put into .\nIndustrial Designer: But but to sell it for twenty five you need a lot of neat features . For sure .\nMarketing: Slim .\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh 'cause I mean , what {disfmarker} uh twenty five Euros , that's about I dunno , fifteen Pounds or so ? And that's quite a lot for a remote control .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , it's about that .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Um well my first thoughts would be most remote controls are grey or black . As you said they come with the T_V_ so it's normally just your basic grey black remote control {gap} functions ,\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nUser Interface: so maybe we could think about colour ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Make {disfmarker} that might make it a bit different from the rest at least . Um , and as you say , we need to have some kind of gimmick , so um I thought maybe something like if you lose it and you can whistle ,\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} The the keyrings , yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: you know those things ? Because we always lose our remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah uh ,\nProject Manager: Okay , that's cool .\n",
      "Marketing: being as a Marketing Exper Expert I will like to say like before deciding the cost of this remote control or any other things we must see the market potential for this product like what is the competition in the market ? What are the available prices of the other remote controls in the prices ?\nProject Manager: {gap} Okay .\nMarketing: What speciality other remote controls are having and how complicated it is to use these remote controls as compared to other remote controls available in the market . So before deciding or before finalising this project , we must discuss all these things , like {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: and apart from this , it should be having a good look also , because people really li uh like to play with it when they are watching movies or playing with {gap} or playing with their C_D_ player , M_P_ three player like any electronic devices .\nUser Interface: Mm . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: They really want to have something good , having a good design in their hands ,\nProject Manager: {gap}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: so , yes ,\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: all this .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , what do we think a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: So , we're looking for {disfmarker} {gap} 'Kay .\nIndustrial Designer: What do we think a good size would be for this ? {gap}\nProject Manager: We're {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: 'Cause I I know as you add more buttons to the remote it sometimes gets so big and clunky\nProject Manager: Sorry , carry on . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and there's just like a hundred buttons on it ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: or you could have a really small slim one but then you could lose it easily . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Then you lose it , yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Kind of um , maybe more like a P_D_A_ kind of , just hand held , like ,\nProject Manager: For for uh\nUser Interface: 'cause {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: remember we're trying to make it for twelve Euros fifty . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . No , I wasn't , no sorry I wasn't thinking of the screen of like a P_D_A_\nProject Manager: Okay well right we'll have to um {disfmarker} I'll {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: but\nProject Manager: we're k having another meeting in half an hour so um\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: we should all look into a bit uh , oh actually , no , we'll allocate . So you do the looking around at other remote controls .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um , if you could maybe come up with sort of shapes and suggested shades or whatever , and you could look into um {vocalsound} basically how how it's made I_E_ like how you make it all in one , how {disfmarker} what sort of materials are available to you whatever . And obviously , other instructions will come from the personal coach .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: Which will probably just usurp what I said so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: So you want me to look at shapes and everything you said ?\nProject Manager: Shapes and colours and {disfmarker} um basically how to make it attractive .\n",
      "User Interface: Yep . Okay .\nProject Manager: Uh .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: And you look at competition and design .\nMarketing: Yep .\nProject Manager: Cool . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: So\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nProject Manager: we have uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Wait for emails ?\nMarketing: Uh .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 1398,
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  },
  {
    "id": 21,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This meeting took up the discussion from the last one. They specified the ideas brought up last time and adapted them according to the market potentials and budget limits. Marketing first reported their findings of market potentials. Altogether, they summarized four conclusions: (1) consumers were willing to spend more for fancy products (2) the current products didn't always match users' operating behaviours (3) a lot of buttons weren't used (4) they were not fun to use. Then, the team came up with a novel feature of automatic speech recognition to retrieve the remotes. In the latter half of the meeting, the team decided that the following functions would be for the new remotes: speech recognition, limited buttons, organic design, programmability, glowing in dark, and integrating the logo and slogan.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} minutes from the last meeting which were essentially that we uh had decided on roles for each of you , however , um there are some changes that I've got from on high\nUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: that um are a bit uh {disfmarker} well w what I didn't actually realise it was that the uh {vocalsound} this is for a specific television .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: So the all in one idea goes out the window . And {vocalsound} they require that the uh\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: actually I'll get to that at the end {gap} point number four , um we'll get what you've got and then we can see what we can adapt from it . So um , presentations , were you {disfmarker} anybody got , raring to go ?\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Raring to go ? Okay . Good stuff . Mm .\nMarketing: Um . So how {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh I need to plug you in . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: S {gap}\nProject Manager: Just about .\n",
      "User Interface: Wow . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It's a inspired design .\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Sh do you want me to hold it ?\nProject Manager: Uh there we go , just screw 'em on in . Gonna have to swap them round so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So , after that ?\nProject Manager: now , it was function F_ eight .\nMarketing: F_ eight . {vocalsound} f oh sorry F_ eight .\nProject Manager: That's the wee blue one . Blue one F_ eight .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Should do it , good one .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah . Uh , me again , Rajan the Marketing Expert . Uh , as we have decided in the last meeting that I have to find out , sorry , yeah sure .\nProject Manager: Hold on , sorry . {gap} and if you just click that it'll go ahead , one at a time .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah . Uh actually , sorry I have to see the other {gap} , sorry .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Sorry , uh .\nMarketing: Yeah , thank you .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Uh , yes , I have to look at the uh market potential for this product , uh , like consumer likings and everything , what is the potential for this product and are we able to achieve our a net profit or our aims or not ? Then {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: P press F_ five to start it first .\nMarketing: Sorry . Okay . Yeah , I can , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Jesus .\n",
      "Marketing: Uh then uh the methodology I adopted to find out all this was market survey . A a detailed market survey on consumers was done to find out their likings and dislikings , what they prefer what they not prefer , w what problems they do encounter in all this type of things . And what we got was , we found that {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} uh , what they th what problems they are having with different uh remote controls available in the market . Seventy five percent of users they do find it that the remote controls available in the market are ugly . They are not so good looking . So , we have to put stress on this , uh we have to take care of this fact also like our design , uh should be appropriate , should be good looking for the consumers . And yes that's wi uh this will definitely , this can definitely put uh uh enhance our sales . Uh and even uh the good thing about this is that eighty percent of users they are willing to pay high uh pay more for this uh good looking remote controls also . So even if the available market goes for the available {disfmarker} uh even if the market goes for the available remote control is less even then we can sell it at twenty five Euros , which maybe which may seem quite high but if our looks are are if the re remote control we design have a good better uh better look uh designs , then we can hope that consumers will prefer these g remote controls .\n",
      "Project Manager: Excellent .\n",
      "Marketing: Then {disfmarker} {gap} And the second thing , some some companies they think that they should have more and more functions of the users uh or in their remote controls , but rather than those having more functions in the remote controls we should emphasise what actually consumer want , what they operate , rather than making it too complicated . Because mostly it has been found that fifty percent of the users they use only ten percent of the buttons , so there is no point of having ninety percent buttons making the remote controls too bulky , too complicated too expensive a because I think I believe that technology is useful only if uh the consumers they want to use it . Otherwise there is no point of having all this type of things . So this will not only reduce the cost of our remote controls but it will increase our profit also . So we have to take care of this fact also . Then . Uh it was function I want to go to .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh you wanna go back ? Just escape .\nMarketing: Uh , escape , okay thank you . Then if we look at this slide ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: uh these are in your shared documents , you can see ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: like {disfmarker} Uh , sorry .\nUser Interface: So , sorry {disfmarker} I was just gonna say , what was the question for this ? Or is {disfmarker} are you coming on to that ?\n",
      "Marketing: Ah t look all the market potential , what uh how we should design consu our remote controls , what they should be there so as to en enhance our profit , enhance our sales .\nUser Interface: Okay . So these percentages are are what ?\nMarketing: Yeah , these are different age group persons like uh sorry , I can open it in another way .\nProject Manager: Okay . Speech recognition .\n",
      "Marketing: Uh , yes . If we look at the costs whether the consumers they are willing to uh pay more for speech recognition in a remote control or not , we can find that they up to a thirty five years age group we have a very good disliking for this uh this uh point , like for speech recognition in a remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So we can emphasise on this point also like , because it will definitely enhance our sales in this ag in this particular age group from uh fifteen to thirty five ,\nUser Interface: Hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: and I uh and I think that most of the users of the rem uh T_V_ are belong to this age group . So we should look {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Hmm . We're als we we're looking at who buys it as well . {gap}\nMarketing: Yeah . We can look at that that factor also , so yes . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh , which I think the twenty five to thirty five is uh usual , sort of .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm , mm .\nMarketing: So , and {disfmarker} {gap}\nProject Manager: {gap}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} And then {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Fifteen to twe\nMarketing: Yes . I think so . Uh if we look at this data how how uh h how what are the problems the consumers are facing with the existing remote controls in the market .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: They find that thirt uh thirty five percent uh thirty four percent of the consumers they find too difficult to operate a remote control . So it should be in such a way that it should be easy to learn how to operate these remote controls and we should provide pl uh spe uh proper manuals for its use also so as that people {disfmarker} consumers could easily learn . They need not to have any , much technical knowledge to see uh to know how to operate these remote controls .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So this is also a very goo uh major factor to loo uh take into consideration to enhance our profits and sales . So um this is all about\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: uh market potential by me .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Uh , yes , th thank you .\nProject Manager: Okay , thank you . Um , {vocalsound} follow on with Helen ? Yeah please .\nUser Interface: Yep , sure , that's cool , um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah we have to take that {gap} out .\nProject Manager: Oh , so we do yeah .\nMarketing: Sorry .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Fun and games .\nMarketing: Sorry .\n",
      "Project Manager: Don't know if the cable's gonna be long enough .\nMarketing: Uh sorry , I have {gap} . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I think I just kicked over whatever it runs on underneath as well .\nMarketing: Brian , this one also I {gap} . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Thank you very much Brian .\nUser Interface: I can turn my computer quickly if that's okay .\nMarketing: If you want me to help , yeah .\nUser Interface: Um , yep .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay , and then what do I press , F_ eight ?\n",
      "Marketing: Uh F_ eight . Function F_ eight .\nProject Manager: Function F_ eight .\nUser Interface: Oh right .\nMarketing: Mm s .\nUser Interface: Okay , cool .\nMarketing: It's not coming . Function F_ eight , okay .\nUser Interface: Oh .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . No signal . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Computer .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: Computer adjusting , yeah .\nProject Manager: There you go .\nUser Interface: Okay . Cool .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay and then how do I press the the big one , to get it on to the big {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Uh F_ five .\nUser Interface: F_ five and I press that again to get it off as well do I ?\nMarketing: Escape .\nProject Manager: Um , F_ five and escape'll bring it back and just uh the left button for advancing .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay , so um I'm the interface design designer , User Interface Designer sorry , uh I'm concerned with um w what effect the apparatus should have on the user and um I'm I'm also {disfmarker} I want to point out that our motto , put the fashion in electronics ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so obviously we as a company we want to make our products trendy and fashionable , it's a big concern of ours . Okay , and how do I press n just the next button ?\nProject Manager: Uh just a left uh\nUser Interface: The arrow ? Okay .\nProject Manager: left mouse button .\n",
      "User Interface: So um I looked at existing designs and also um the information that Raj gave us was very useful about what people like , what people dislike . Um and what people {disfmarker} fashionable , because we said people between twenty five and thirty five were the main um buyers of of our T_V_ I think .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .\nUser Interface: So um what they like and what they find fashionable .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And ergonomics , we said um , I don't know I haven't actually been able to do any of this myself ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: but um maybe that comes up , I don't know .\nProject Manager: That can come under Arlo as well .\nUser Interface: And the findings , well the basic {disfmarker} that was the basic function to send messages to the television set .\nProject Manager: Uh .\nUser Interface: That's what people want to do . Um , so they need to be included , um , but I've got some pictures here of some leading ones . I don't know how to get to them ,\nProject Manager: Uh if you if you escape then you can see your bar .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} do I press F_ five is it ? {gap} escape ? Oh okay , cool . I haven't got my glasses on so I hope it's this one .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh okay .\nUser Interface: These are two leading um remote controls at the moment .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: You know they're grey , they've I mean this one's got loads of buttons , it's hard to tell from here what they actually do ,\nProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: and they don't look very exciting at all . Um , personally I prefer this one just because it's looks easier use , it's a bit more sleek with more of this silver stuff ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: um , but there you go , that's what we're up against ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and I think we can do much better than that .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} We hope so .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Of course . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Um hang on . F_ five ,\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: okay , sorry . Personal preferences . Um , well I think we need to l I think the ergonomics is quite um important , um\nProject Manager: {gap} Yeah , particularly if we've uh there was a bit in Raj's about R_S_I_ and things as well .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh . And um I thought not too edgy and like a box , more kind of hand-held more um {vocalsound} not as uh computery and\nProject Manager: Organic {vocalsound} .\n",
      "User Interface: or organic , yeah , more organic shape I think . {vocalsound} Um simple designs , like the last one we just saw , not too many buttons and as Raj pointed out , only ten percent {disfmarker} fifty percent of people only use ten percent of the buttons ,\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: so I think what we can miss out on the buttons we can make up for in design and and how nice it looks .\nProject Manager: Sales , {gap} . Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Um , hand-held and portable I think is portamint is important because T_F_T_ have just um released um I think is it a a remote control for presentations or uh and a big seven inch big screen , anyway , so um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah it's like a , yeah . {vocalsound} It's {gap} . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , no seven inches isn't that big but um anyway um so hand-held and portable and uh m I thought about other functions for T_V_ but as you pointed out people don't actually want that ,\nProject Manager: Right .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: And also the company want to keep it stuck to the T_V_ for uh to keep down the production time .\nUser Interface: so maybe we forget about that . It's for one T_V_ oh right okay , sure . And so the last thing I thought w which I quickly mentioned in the other one was maybe a bit of a gimmick to set us apart from other people , like glow-in-the-dark\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Exactly . Yeah .\nUser Interface: um which {vocalsound} does already e exist but it's not very widely used I don't think .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Easy finder with the a whistle function or something ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: or rechargeable station because it's a pain when you run out of batteries .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: And I think that , yep , that's it .\nProject Manager: That's cool .\nIndustrial Designer: So uh , I noticed your talk about speech recognition and whistling ,\nUser Interface: Okay ? Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: and uh I was just curious to know , have we done any research into how many people can whistle ? Um , or if {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: is that a function we want in the remote ?\nProject Manager: Um , do you have trouble whistling ?\nUser Interface: Um , I haven't been able to {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I don't , but I I know a lot of people do right .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Really ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah it just\nProject Manager: Ooh . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} I mean it has to be a certain kind of whistle too , right ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , I suppose that's true .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm , yeah\nProject Manager: Well I suppo uh you could y you could have the\nUser Interface: or some sort of voice {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: you could have the basically um instead of a whistle if it's got the voice recognition you could have it just , you know , where are you ? {gap} . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's costly though .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Um a much easier thing is just any loud noise like clapping um , shouting , you know ,\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: uh and then , what would the response be ? It beeps back at you or something ?\nProject Manager: Sounds good .\nUser Interface: Yeah , something .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Well , uh let me set this up . So I plug it in , press F_ five ? Function F_ five ?\nProject Manager: Function F_ eight for the um the uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Or function F_ eight ? Okay .\nUser Interface: Oh you need to twiddle the thingamibobsy thing .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay . I think it's {vocalsound} uh just to lock it in . It's got it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Um . {vocalsound} So as the Industrial Designer my job is to take an input from you guys ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: um so it's good you went first ,\nProject Manager: Alright .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and I jotted down some notes as to what are the b needs and uh what kind of novel features we can add to differentiate our product from the others .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Let's remember that .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um so Raj told us that uh consumers are willing to spend more for fancy products , and um he also mentioned that uh the current products don't always match users' operating behaviour . Um , a lot of the buttons aren't used , and uh {vocalsound} he mentioned that they're not fun to use . And uh a novel feature which uh we just brought up was this this automatic speech recognition feature or noise detection feature for when you lose the remote ,\nProject Manager: {gap}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: there could be a little microphone on it , and any noise over a certain threshold um it'll pick up as a a distress signal um from you and it'll beep back and say you know oh here I am or something of this sort .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . But sure surely that would have to be um sort of specific rather than above a threshold 'cause if you had a loud movie on you're likely to get it beeping back at you .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh yeah , yeah , that's true .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well maybe you could have a um hmm {vocalsound} tha that would be a consideration to take into account yes . Um .\nProject Manager: Sorry I didn't mean to derail you there . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah well tha that's uh for later down the road um , and then as for the user interface it should be trendy , um {vocalsound} and not computery ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: right , so more low tech and not too many buttons .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So I took these all into consideration and also I have some limitations from the boss .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Right um , and practical limitations which I kinda threw out the window .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And so I did a little research and unfortunately all I had to work on was our uh our corporate archives of the great products we've made before ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: which include , you know , um space craft , coffee makers , and bullet trains {disfmarker} Or uh or a high speed train .\n",
      "Project Manager: Ah is that what that is ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right and having personally worked with all these products uh I have a great deal of experience with uh with industrial design of these .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Well that's cool . If you if you can build space craft you'll have no problem with a remote control , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Right . So ,\nUser Interface: Yeah sure .\nIndustrial Designer: I figured , just put 'em all together .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: You got a a caffeine powered space shuttle train transport to your T_V_ , and um\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: as for the user interface problem , you know , too many buttons . Give it one button\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and and it's a {disfmarker} you know , for the the cowboy in all of us {gap}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {disfmarker} I I'm not quite sure what the the function is there but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Right okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well I like that design . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah it's a g I mean you could have a you know a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Is that just switches on the speech recognition and it's entirely speech operated , is it ?\nIndustrial Designer: Right . So I think I I missed the budget thing ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: it was fifty million Euros ?\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And we gotta sell twenty five of them ? Right . {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , not a problem .\nMarketing: Fifty million was uh prof\nProject Manager: Ah now it's fif fifty million Euros we've gotta uh we've g {vocalsound}\nMarketing: As a profit .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh okay , so I I mixed those numbers .\nProject Manager: gotta make profit , so we're making that at twelve and a half Euros a time .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Well I guess more realistically then , we need a product that's got some kinda nifty outer casing , cheap plastic uh , you know , um that should be just like uh a tenth of the price maybe or less .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: An energy source which'd probably just be uh your regular batteries {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: um , we don't wanna have it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Would it be possible to have the rechargeable idea ? Is that is that gonna mark up a lot ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\n",
      "User Interface: Or a little base station or something , {gap} .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , we could do that too . Um , I hadn't thought of that . Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} That might cost more though , 'cause obviously with batteries we don't need to provide , well we provide the first batteries , but it's more , it's {disfmarker} that's cheaper to just provide batteries .\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: I mean if you think about these base stations now it's essentially just a a lead with a sort of self connecting brake in it ,\n",
      "User Interface: A battery in it , kinda .\nProject Manager: so I don't think it'd up up the price that much .\nIndustrial Designer: Right , so so {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: the unirs the user interface\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: uh the canonical user interface for these would be just a bunch of buttons , but since we're a cutting edge company , we uh of course will have alternatives like uh speech recognition , whistling recognition and rocket power\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: behind our product .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Um and lastly the transmission interface is uh , just some engineering thing you don't have to worry about .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Um so here's you know , a great schematic that my uh apprentice designer gave me .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um as you can see the the remote control have parts and those parts look like that and um {vocalsound} you know it's got a little operating procedure that looks something like that . {vocalsound} And I suppose you all know how it works because we've all used it and we wouldn't be in a company designing remote controls if we didn't know what they were so {disfmarker} uh personal preferences , I think uh programmable options which um just require a small amount of memory , uh non volatile memory , just um so the user can put in their favourite channels and maybe their preferred volume settings so that when they turn it on it's not blasting .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm . Mm that's a good idea actually I like the programmable options .\nMarketing: Yeah , me too .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh okay . And the uh , the bells and whistles that we mentioned you know , they take more budgeting , um more technical uh expenditure of effort\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and it's also much more likely to not work if if we add these bells and whistles .\nProject Manager: Right .\nUser Interface: Mm 'kay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: That's all I got .\nProject Manager: 'Kay , thank you very much , um I'll take that back .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Ooh that's tight .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Right , also so um a notice I got not very long before the meeting , so didn't manage to forward it on to you , it is {disfmarker} let's see , I'll find it myself , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Ta\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , I don't think we need to screw it in .\n",
      "Project Manager: nah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Just push it .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: We had that um to dis-include teletext um because it's become outdated , and everybody uses the internet anyway . Um , {vocalsound} dunno what Oracle would have to say with that but never mind .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Um it's only for the television , which I'm presuming means it's for a specific television ,\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: and um instead of colours and sorta colour options , they want corporate colour and slogan somehow implemented in the new design .\n",
      "User Interface: Corporate colour .\nProject Manager: Yellow .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yellow . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I presume . Um , everything , all their sort of uh you know the uh corporate website and everything's yellow .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And the logo uh the sort of slogan we put the fa fashion in electronics uh {disfmarker} I don't know exactly how sort of incorpor I mean , I guess if you're going for a sort of globular shape you could kind of have it working its way round it or something .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh , where am I ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , so , we have to decide on which functions we're going to actually have .\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: Uh , {vocalsound} now , we had as listed options we had\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: speech recognition potentially , flat screen interface , L_C_D_ interface um we also want to limit the number of buttons so we'll pretty much take that one as read .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: We'll use the the basic functions for a television . No teletext . Um {vocalsound} okay hold on .\nUser Interface: Although the the danger with that is , it could look a bit cheap .\nProject Manager: Not enough buttons you mean ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So sorta strike a balance between a a few and a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: or it looks like we're just cutting on the um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm . On the number of buttons , kind of functions and stuff .\n",
      "Project Manager: I do however have this from over my head , that they don't want teletext on it .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , okay . Okay , cool .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh maybe Raj you could find out what people would think about that , or maybe they'll send\nMarketing: About cost .\nProject Manager: some information about that , about um what people , whether people would require um teletext in a remote {disfmarker} teletext option in a remote control .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: {gap} {vocalsound} Okay um {gap} . So uh I take it your position Arlo is that the bells and whistles we've gotta come up with the {disfmarker} a gimmick but not too complicated a gimmick .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um so I mean a a the sort of inkling I'm getting from little bits of um web chatter that I'm getting sent is that they're quite interested in a T_F_T_ display , interactive display . However that does sound a bit like the more complicated design that rav uh sorry Raj um {vocalsound} said people didn't like . Although I guess if there's a sort of {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: If you think about standard interfaces that people use already , sort of Windows-style drop down menus or whatever ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: I think maybe that's a bit , going a bit far\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: but you know like in a basic sense that you could have your basic selection of buttons , and if you hit a sort of menu at the top you have um {vocalsound} it goes to a different selection of buttons , so it sorta keeps it simple .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Okay .\nProject Manager: Um glow in the dark , is that sort of with a light inside it or is it sort of glow in the dark material ?\nUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh .\nUser Interface: Glow in the dark material I was thinking .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Um , so I I guess that would be cheaper than a light I think .\nMarketing: Uh may I say something about {gap} ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh actually I think it's really really very important point uh as if we look at the market because people mor fifty percent people they find that the remote controls are often lost somewhere in the remote , in the room . But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Often lost s was that ,\nMarketing: yeah are lost\nProject Manager: Lost , yeah .\nUser Interface: yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: and means they forget where they have kept the remote control last time . But if we add speech recognition as well as glow in the dark then both these factors will help their locating the remote control ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: like if they come and speak something at the remote control uh replies to something something and it glows in the dark . Both these factors uh both these points will help them to locate the where they have kept this remote control ,\nProject Manager: That's cool .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm ,\nMarketing: and this will definitely enhance our uh market sales ,\nProject Manager: That's cool .\n",
      "User Interface: mm-hmm .\nMarketing: so we should take it into consideration also .\nProject Manager: Okay , cool .\nIndustrial Designer: Well hmm .\nProject Manager: Um speech recognition I take it {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh it's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I don't , I've {disfmarker} I know of no products um that use speech recognition well .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: They're act there there was a remote control that came out two years ago that had a {disfmarker} some basic speech recognition on it . You could programme it with your channels and then you say you know like uh B_B_C_ one and it goes to that channel .\nProject Manager: Really ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it didn't work very well though because of this noise interference problem . They mentioned you know if the television says you are listening to B_B_C_ one {gap} .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , or a yeah an advert an advert for B_B_C_ two on B_B_C_ one'll switch the channel for you kinda thing .\nUser Interface: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Right , right , and so there was a lot of this , you'd be watching the T_V_ and then all of a sudden it'd it'd pick up a noise and turn it off or you know or turn the volume off or something ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: but if you can work around that that noise problem {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh-huh .\nUser Interface: Well what about {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: this might get a bit too expensive actually , but what about um something that's built into the T_V_ um that you can press and it'll send out a little signal you know like the ones that we can't hear or {vocalsound} something\nProject Manager: Ah , that's a good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nUser Interface: um that that will activate the remote control starts to beep .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\n",
      "Project Manager: So like a kind of backwards remote from the telly . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: If you find if y\nIndustrial Designer: Right and then it would do just you know , uh subtractive kind of cancellation of the noise .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: What you could do then would be you have uh {vocalsound} a remote controlled by the T_V_ speaker , or not a remo I'm sorry , a microphone by the T_V_ speaker and a transmitter there that sends back to your remote , 'cause you can't um expect uh the the television manufacturers to to put that feature into their T_V_s .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm . Yeah , that's the only thing , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: But yeah , then you have like the little se separate module by the T_V_ speaker\nProject Manager: That we should just stick on , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: which {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That comes with our remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: Right , and then the remote control would know um what's being produced by the television .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: And that's a sort of basic R_F_ kind of frequency so it'll be cheap .\nIndustrial Designer: Right , right .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Right , right . Um . {vocalsound} Yeah that's certainly possible then an another thing was about this losing the remote and trying to find it again . If you do have this sorta speech interface to it , you don't even need to find it . You just say you know , um whatever you whatever you want the remote for , you know to change the channel or to uh turn the T_V_ on and off , you just shout your command to it and it would do it for you if it's within you know , within hearing range . And uh you know it could be somewhere in the room y that you've no idea where it is and it would still do its job .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh-huh .\nUser Interface: That could also be built into the T_V_ though , which might make our remote control a bit obsolete .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well , hopefully we're uh we're ahead of the curve . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It might do us out of a job .\nUser Interface: Yeah , okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker} Okay . {vocalsound} I like the whole sort of remote feedback thing . Um so I think rather than {disfmarker} and that also kind of takes out the speech recognition in terms of the interference of it not working very well and things like that ,\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nProject Manager: so I th\nUser Interface: And the expense .\nProject Manager: yeah and expense and the time .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: So I think if we're going to go {disfmarker} well I mean like the thing about the {disfmarker} there's the problem with the T_F_T_ or the L_C_D_ kind of thing is if you're also wanting the the kind of uh organic globby sort of feeling to it then you might have trouble incorporating the screen .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um , but I guess not I thin we'll just we'll just pretend that's not a problem . Um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} and how are you about the glow in the dark material ? Is that {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Um .\nUser Interface: Maybe not even all of it 'cause we said um colours and fashion w were important so maybe um just like a little l line that's kind of around the outside and then you can make the rest a different colour .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Contrast contra well .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , no th the material's cheap but it's just uh the the glow in the dark material needs some light to charge it you know , and then uh if you're , if you're sitting in the dark for too long it uh it won't glow any more .\nProject Manager: Yeah , okay .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: So if it's dow it's d uh yeah . Or if it's down under the couch cushions\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\nProject Manager: um which is where I usually find mine .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Right .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Okay , well we can use {disfmarker} we can still use the glow in the dark as a gimmick essentially ,\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nProject Manager: um if we're gonna have to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: 'cause what I thought , main {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: if we're gonna have the logo on as well , bright yellow logo in our our um slogan .\nUser Interface: Slogan , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh then you know they're gonna be fairly brightly coloured anyway , and we can have sort of a a a trimming as well , of the glow in the dark material , just as gimmickyness .\nUser Interface: Right . Mm-hmm . 'Cause yeah , that w more than finding it , that was more like you know if you're watching a film in the dark , you can um still see the remote control .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Alright , so n sorta if if if we're gon if we're gonna go with the idea of um {vocalsound} uh of feedback , sort of remote finder , then that kinda stuffs that one out then .\nUser Interface: That was more of a a gimmick .\nProject Manager: Do you think ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Uh it makes it fairly unnecessary then .\nUser Interface: Yeah , unnecessary . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . Um , okay so scratch that . Uh so we've got do we want to go with the T_F_T_ idea or the {disfmarker} is that far too expensive ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah we're getting a lot of features now , I I think {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Well I mean I think I think the sort of find the finder things I mean it's uh I could probably write the circuit diagram for that myself .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Well , I think a consideration too is that these uh remotes get abused a lot , you know they get thrown around ,\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: there's a good chance the the T_F_T_ screen would break or uh get damaged .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: They're pretty fragile .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: So is that one of our definite requirements that they wa that it needs a T_F_T_ screen ?\nProject Manager: Um no , I mean {gap} that was going on ravs uh Raj's sort of um marketing research I guess . Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} So we'll stick with sort of programmability um for the buttons that we do have . Um . {gap} So that's sort of included in your sub-module kind of stuff , um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} you were finding out about teletext .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: If you could find out that uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Totally , it takes cheap speech recognition , she {disfmarker} they wi\nProject Manager: Um I think we're gonna scratch the speech recognition as a bit of a\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nProject Manager: um expensive ,\nUser Interface: Yeah you think so ?\nIndustrial Designer: Oh no it's it's much cheaper than the T_F_T_ , it's just a microphone and some some integrated circuits .\nProject Manager: no ? Oh right , okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And it'd it'd be a small vocabulary speech recognition system ,\nProject Manager: Is it not the circuits that cost {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: like a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh right , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nProject Manager: Uh well that kind of takes back the R_F_ {vocalsound} the R_F_ remote sort of idea as well .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um . {vocalsound} Five minutes . Okay . Decisions . Uh , votes , let's vote . Who wants T_F_T_ ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: No-one does .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Excellent , so we'll go with speech recognition , yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , that's cool .\nProject Manager: Um , speech recognition , limited buttons , organic design . And what else was I thinking of that I haven't written down and therefore fallen out my head ,\nUser Interface: Um\nProject Manager: programmability .\nMarketing: Glow in dark .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: if it's not too expensive s I think it's a good gimmick .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh o okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {gap}\nProject Manager: And also , integrating the , remember to integrate the logo and the s slogan . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Okay , so . Um can you put all these reports in the project documents folder if they're not already in there as well . So , it just helps me summarize them .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah .\nMarketing: Here ? Sure .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: And um I'll put any {disfmarker} {gap} I'm I'm putting anything I do in there anyway , so uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: And where is it sorry ?\nProject Manager: Uh pro uh project documents .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So it should be when you save\nProject Manager: On A_M_I_ scenario controller .\nIndustrial Designer: on your desktop , so it goes save as , or {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Oh {gap} .\nMarketing: Uh it is in shared documents ?\nIndustrial Designer: And then uh hit that little folder up thing again .\nProject Manager: Where am I ?\n",
      "Marketing: Projoct uh projector .\nIndustrial Designer: Again .\nProject Manager: Project documents , yeah , it's on your desktop as well .\nIndustrial Designer: All the way to the top , yeah that's up to desktop . Right and then project documents .\nUser Interface: Okay , cool .\nMarketing: Hmm . It is not giving anything .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Shared documents .\nProject Manager: And I will tr {gap} getting strings of um information , I'll try and forward any specific to anybody in particular , as soon as I get them now , rather than {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\n",
      "Project Manager: I was about to sort of tell you about the changes before the meeting , and then the meeting turned up , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Did you get my email ? Okay .\nProject Manager: I did {gap} . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Just making sure .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} What I thought as well about the material is um maybe not this kind of material , but maybe more like um this kind of rubbery material , it's a bit more bouncy , like you said they get chucked around a lot . Um , a bit more {vocalsound} durable and that can also be ergonomic\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: and it kind of feels a bit different from all the other remote controls .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: The rubber rather than {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: More sort of um flesh-like than plasticky sort of .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Wow .\nMarketing: Um but we have to take care like {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But we have to take care of our children also if they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} means if children catch hold of your or if they chew it it shouldn't be too harmful . So , whatever material we use it should be {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh no , ethics , {vocalsound} that's gonna cost us money . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So {vocalsound} we have to safety point of view also , we have to take care .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , safety .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nUser Interface: Oh I think wi with the more organic shape of it it won't be as {disfmarker} it won't as have many sharp corners as that , so that's something good , um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: I dunno , I mean {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: We could go comp yeah .\nProject Manager: It sme {vocalsound} smells good for children . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: We could go completely out of the box and make the thing a big red ball foam ball .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And it's got the thing on the inside .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And there's no buttons at all , it's always on , and just yell at it , and it works .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} That sounds ,\nUser Interface: That's a good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: And then ch children will love it . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: yeah it's gonna have to be it's gonna be have a big yellow foam ball , yeah , sorry .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Interesting .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh yellow , yellow ball . Right .\nUser Interface: Yeah , d with the colour , um does it have to be all yellow , do you know ?\nProject Manager: Please God no . Um . Well , I wouldn't th I mean ,\nUser Interface: No .\n",
      "Project Manager: my reaction to an all-yellow remote control wouldn't be anything other than horror , so I think just having it\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Small logo with the like a small yellow strip or y yellow {gap} with the logo in it .\nProject Manager: surrounding the logo .\nUser Interface: Having a little bit . Okay cool . Mm mm .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , okay .\nProject Manager: And I'll see if I can argue with boss about putting the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Cool .\n",
      "Project Manager: what was it ? We put {vocalsound} we put fashion into {disfmarker} Whoops , it's not working . Can't believe I've forgotten it {gap} . We put the fashion in electronics . {vocalsound} I bet that'll catch on well .\nUser Interface: Oh yeah , that's a good one that . Yeah so .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , any last\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Twelve thirty .\nProject Manager: worries , queries ? Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} S s {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: I know what you're thinking .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay then , lunchtime , yay .\nMarketing: That's good .\nProject Manager: Okay , that felt a bit more like a {disfmarker} something with order and and reason to it than the last one .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: This is quite fun actually .\nUser Interface: Wow .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Has anybo oh .\nProject Manager: I really don't {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Has anybody pressed okay , it vibrates . It's pretty cool .\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nMarketing: Check here .\nProject Manager: Wow you've {gap} your first page .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah I've been using up the pages .\nProject Manager: I was just writing really big . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , got small writing . I don't wanna waste it .\nProject Manager: I've finished the meeting now .\n"
    ],
    "length": 11467,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 22,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The whole meeting was the final meeting of the project for discussion about the final design and project evaluation. Firstly, though Project Manager came late, he efficiently started the prototype presentation, during which Industrial Designer and User Interface presented the final design they worked out together. However, part of the features contained in their design, particularly too many buttons, were effectively rejected in the finance phase to reduce cost. Then, Marketing hosted the product evaluation and calculated a total score for their new remote control. After that, Project Manager guided the process evaluation and led the project to the closing phase.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: So {disfmarker} Hello . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Good afternoon . Sorry I'm a little late .\nProject Manager: No problem .\nMarketing: Got stuck in the traffic .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's possible on uh this time of day . Starts at three o'clock . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh , let me see . Our fourth and last meeting . There he is . Yes . Okay this our last meeting . In this meeting we will discuss our final design . And we will do some evaluation about the , not only the product , but also the project . And then we're going to close the project today as well . So after this you will be uh free to go and uh spend all your money . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: And this uh design , detailed design meeting uh we will discuss uh the look-and-feel of the design , the usability interface design , and we will do the product evaluation . Um , in order to do that we have this agenda . We'll have the prototype presentation first . Then we will set up some evaluation cri um criteria . {vocalsound} Then we will look at the finance . Uh we will have to see if everything we wanna do is also possible within our budget . Because everything costs money , and the more functions you wanna have the more money it will cost . So we have to see if it fits within the twelve and a half Euro per remote . But we will see that later . Then we will do the project uh evaluation , and the closing after that .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We've got forty minutes . So we will be finished at half past three . But first um we will do the {disfmarker} this is prototype presentation . So , if some yeah if somebody wants step forward .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay . Well this is what me and Richard came up with . The default spot for the on-off button . The mute button just below that . Then there's the volume and channel selectors . Simple plus-minus button . Uh we thought of a help button . If you hold it and you press another button , uh the help goes to the L_C_D_ screen . Then there's the zero to {disfmarker} one to zero buttons . A button for teletext . A button for the subtitles . And the company logo . So it's rather simple prototype . And uh we'll have to see from testing uh how the users take it .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Um , {vocalsound} is this the moment where we ask or can ask questions about the functionality ?\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Sure uh just pop in at any time .\nMarketing: Um , when you're in teletext there usually are buttons where you just you just press it and you g go to the next teletext page .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh , that's just uh the normal uh as th as the normal uh remote controls uh {disfmarker} So um {disfmarker} You put it uh {disfmarker} you um came in uh page uh one hundred . Now you can use the normal uh one to zero buttons .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: And you {disfmarker} But you can also uh use the um button th for uh changing the the channel . S so uh the shifting uh button . Uh for uh yeah shif shifting up in uh on t on t uh teletext , and shifting uh down . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . Okay . Um {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . Uh but um I thought in a few meetings earlier we uh uh tried to keep it uh simple . Uh just a few buttons and large buttons .\nUser Interface: Oh yeah ?\nProject Manager: But uh I think these are altogether quite a quite a few buttons . So I'm wondering if we if we neely {disfmarker} really need all of those buttons .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I think if you look at most controls , they've got more buttons than this .\nProject Manager: That's right .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And well the on-off button , it's it's a necessity .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: You can't drop that one . The volume and channel buttons , you need you obviously need those those .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: The mute button could be replaced uh by pressing the volume-down button twice . So we could cancel that one . I think the help button really is necessary\nUser Interface: Yeah yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: because there's no other way to know when someone wants to know what a button does .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh , or you can build in uh when you press uh one button uh uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Long time . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: If you put {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But m Yeah . We disc discuss that already . But uh we think uh old people uh don't know that uh option . So uh they just put in uh put {vocalsound} press uh the button and uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Well , {vocalsound} you can't leave out the number buttons I guess .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: And uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Uh teletext and subtitles are yeah necessary .\nIndustrial Designer: And {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: So it's rather basic already .\nMarketing: Yeah . Think so . That's what I pointed out earlier . If you just make a control for just the T_V_ there's just not much to gain here .\nProject Manager: Yep .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . So we had somebody about th interfa Something about the design of the buttons there ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , they're {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Just n normal plain buttons .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: It's rather hard to draw on the white-board .\nUser Interface: it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But they're supposed to be equal sized , round , with a with a little logo on it for the for the volume , the the triangle and stuff .\nProject Manager: Yeah . 'Kay .\nUser Interface: Yeah yeah . Just to recognise it , so uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Just for recognition .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh yeah and now we don't need uh LEDs or um {disfmarker} Y uh\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: s some uh remote controls uh do it also ,\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: but um uh because we use the little display we don't uh have to use it . Uh so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: So and for the materials we've just chosen for rubber buttons . With a a different colour than the case .\nUser Interface: Nay .\nProject Manager: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: So they jump out .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: And uh that's about it .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's nice . Then because we only have thirty minutes left , I will move on to the finance part , which is pretty exciting , to see if it's all possible what we wanna do . And I can tell you that we're going to have a pretty hard time producing this for twelve and a half Euros .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: If we see {disfmarker} I don't know if I've filled in correctly , so just correct me if you see uh something wrong . I counted two batteries . But maybe we can also use one . I don't know if it's possible .\n",
      "Marketing: Since it rechargeable .\nProject Manager: It's rechargeable . That's right .\nUser Interface: Yeah we can u just uh {gap} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay . That's two Euros off . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: 'Kay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We need the advanced chip . So there's not much to uh {vocalsound} to save there .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Here we have the single curves . Uh we can see that the difference between uncurved and the single curved is one Euro . Um ,\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: I don't know , but I think the single curved is good for design , and also for the display to have a prominent place on the remote control .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: I think we have to keep that .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Then we have the case material supplements . It's plastic . It's the cheapest one we need . So that's uh not much to save either . But then the biggest costs are the buttons . So maybe we really should try to discard some buttons to uh keep our costs low .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Because you have to {disfmarker} we will have to get the twelve and a half Euros at the end . Um ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so if we {disfmarker} Let's fir first count the buttons we have now .\nUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker} Sixteen , I believe so .\nProject Manager: Because I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Sixteen . Nah , that will be even more then . Eighteen Euros . So ,\nUser Interface: Uh seventeen . Uh with the help button .\nProject Manager: seventeen .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , including the help ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nMarketing: Damn .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Uh seventeen .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: I think we can uh discard the help and the mute button uh by pressing down volume long , or pressing down a a number long .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nProject Manager: That saves us uh one Euro already . 'Cause then we have got fifteen I think ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Wouldn't {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Fifteen buttons .\nMarketing: Yeah . No . That wouldn't be an option .\n",
      "Project Manager: And this is {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh , d I assume you'd count the volume and channel thingies for two buttons each , right ?\nProject Manager: No those are one , I think .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Where did uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Well , think actually there're two buttons ,\nUser Interface: Uh , it's just one button .\nMarketing: aren't they ?\nUser Interface: But , um {disfmarker} Yeah . There were uh two uh for one big button . But they are uh more expensive than the small ones . Uh , yeah . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah but th it's not stated in this files .\nUser Interface: It's just a {gap} .\nProject Manager: So maybe we can we can even make one button with the volume and the channel in one , by pressing\nMarketing: Well I was thinking , maybe you could just integrate three of those numbers to one button .\nProject Manager: That's possibility as well .\nMarketing: That would cut the cost .\n",
      "Project Manager: So {disfmarker} And it's good for the design as well . So you can make {disfmarker} Uh let's see . If you make this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Looks a bit like uh a cross . {vocalsound} Plus . Min .\nUser Interface: But I don't don't know if if it's cheaper .\nProject Manager: Uh s yeah channel .\nUser Interface: So uh ,\nProject Manager: Yeah w\nUser Interface: we've still got four buttons , but just um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah th I think they count uh the materials .\n",
      "User Interface: You got uh not not a butt button itself , but uh on the um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah on the chip there . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . On the chip you've got still uh four uh four buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: That's right . That's right .\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But I think because we have the advanced chip\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} we can just count this as one button .\nUser Interface: Yeah , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} But , I think this really is four buttons anyhow .\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker} No but I think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . Maybe it is , but then it seems to me that it's impossible to get the twelve and a half Euros . Also the L_C_ display , I think it's , I think it's too expensive for the display we use .\nMarketing: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh that's that's a big cost .\nProject Manager: I think they uh try t\n",
      "Industrial Designer: If we leave out the display we can also save money on the chip .\nProject Manager: That's right , but what's the big advantage of our remote then ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Only the docking station , I guess .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Which isn't the {disfmarker} the docking station isn't even in this c s schematic .\nProject Manager: No .\nIndustrial Designer: So it's not even taken into the price .\nProject Manager: That's extra . {vocalsound} That's extra . That's right .\nMarketing: Maybe we should to a different supplier .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's an option .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Poland . Something . {vocalsound} Polish supplier . Don't you think we can , if we can count this as v as one button , and integrate th uh these buttons in three , then we save a lot of money as well .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We we could save money on it . But would it make the remote more usable for elderly people ?\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's what I'm wondering . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: My mother can't even send send an S_M_S_ message .\nProject Manager: Yeah . That's a point .\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Are we gonna buy a um a remote control uh when you can uh use it ?\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: So um {disfmarker} Yeah . We m uh we must um stay below the um below um twelve uh fifty or {disfmarker} Can't uh go um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: No .\n",
      "Marketing: Well , since the market research indicated that older people spend their money easier , more easy , maybe it's feasible to just put the price of the remote up a little . Especially since we have those nice features .\nUser Interface: Nay .\nProject Manager: Yeah but uh we have to stick to the twelve and a half Euros . We don't have any more budget to develop it .\nUser Interface: Is it impossible to {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: The margin will get too small . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But it is possible to make one uh for uh twelve fifty .\n",
      "Project Manager: It is . If you leave out the L_C_ display . And if you use less buttons . Say {disfmarker} Or you can take the single chip .\nUser Interface: I don't think so .\nMarketing: It would be a be a pretty rigid one .\nUser Interface: S Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: But , you can't use uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Ten .\nProject Manager: There it is . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: But then w Good looking .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh , wi with n Oh , with uh attractive uh o options .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So uh , you can stay uh below uh twelve fifty . So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think it's uh difficult as well ,\nMarketing: Or b\nProject Manager: but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Basically becoming a choice between like either a good remote and a higher production cost , or just any other remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: No remote . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Or we can leave out the ten buttons and take one scroll wheel for the programme numbers . Then w\nUser Interface: Scroll-wheel's one .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Because then we save ten buttons .\nUser Interface: No , it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Then we have five and one .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: And and see . If we have this one and we've got the advanced {disfmarker} W uh , we're getting close . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: We're getting closer .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But how does scroll-wheel work here ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Then you will {disfmarker} Or maybe you can um scroll . If you scroll you will see the numbers on the L_C_D_ display . Until you've got the right number , then you push it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: That would bring up the price of the scroll-wheel also . Integrated scroll-wheel push-button .\nProject Manager: Alright . It's gotta scroll and push .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Okay but then you you can push uh some other button as well .\nMarketing: But {disfmarker} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: You could just not scroll for a half a second .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . That's right . So if you scroll to a number and then you wait a half second , then it g turns to that channel .\nIndustrial Designer: So you won't need a button .\nMarketing: I think that would be like the end of our usability .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} But it would definitely crop cost , a lot .\nUser Interface: D yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: And we need the battery . {vocalsound} And the regular chip is not possible ? It has to be advanced ?\nIndustrial Designer: If you want to use an L_C_D_ screen you you need an advanced chip , yes .\nProject Manager: It has to be advanced . Yeah . Okay .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nProject Manager: And we can save a Euro by a flat design . That's an option we can {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Ja ja .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nProject Manager: Then we're almost there .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah if you v could just leave out one more button .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . So if we {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , or we have to uh skip the subtitle uh button .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah but I think that's {disfmarker} That is a big advantage ,\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: if we're {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah it's a big advantage .\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But um , it's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Can we use {disfmarker} can't we integrate the teletext and the subtitles in one button ?\n",
      "User Interface: Uh , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I think so . Yeah .\nProject Manager: If you push it three times ?\nMarketing: Well , think it's pretty much the teletext subtitles are\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: right now you just push the teletext button , go to page eight eight eight ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: and teletext disappears . But the subtitles stay there .\nUser Interface: {gap} {disfmarker} But if you push the teletext button twice {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} What if you have to scroll to page eighty eight ? Eight hundred eighty eight . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I think that's the case on most {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's uh {disfmarker} One m uh one b uh , a few buttons .\nProject Manager: Ah that's not really that {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Well , that could be just uh like the scroll to eight , click , scroll to eight , click , scroll to eight , click .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Okay .\nMarketing: But then again that would be d j just pretty much not an option for older people ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: who don't even know what a scroll-wheel is .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: No .\nMarketing: Holding a remote with {vocalsound} which they expect to have like ten buttons for the numbers one to zero .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: With only five buttons on it . And a scroll-wheel .\n",
      "Project Manager: I think if you make a good advertisement uh on television and in the in the guide , you can explain to the people how to use the scroll wheel . If you just make it real simple . Because it saves it saves a lot of money . And we can keep our L_C_D_ screen , which can provide extra information . How to use the scroll wheel . How to use the other bu buttons as subtitles .\nMarketing: True . True .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: And it's good for the innovative design as well . If you would erase these . Mm eraser ? And we put uh {disfmarker} Looks a bit odd maybe . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: That's a pretty big scroll wheel .\nProject Manager: That is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Something like that .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Then , yeah . We've got the scroll-wheel . One , two , three , four , five buttons , if we erase this one . And these are two buttons then .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: We could make two buttons out of that . And just um {disfmarker} If you press the volume button you can control the volume with the scroll-wheel .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So that would save two buttons . If you do the same for the channel .\nProject Manager: Yeah . That's really a good good idea , I think . And it will make the use of the scroll wheel uh more obvious indeed .\nIndustrial Designer: More obvious .\nProject Manager: So we make one for the volume , one for the channel . Plus scroll . That's right .\nIndustrial Designer: So if we {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: So we've got one , two , three . Yeah , we can leave the teletext in if we want . That's m that's better .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So this is five buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: If we leave out all those buttons , perhaps you can go with the flat flat case . And make it smaller overall .\nProject Manager: Y yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So if you put the the volume and channel buttons on the same height as the on-off button , the screen right behi under that , than the scroll button\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm yeah . Uh yeah , and then you can {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: you get a a much smaller remote .\nProject Manager: That's right .\nUser Interface: Uh yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And it sh\nProject Manager: So we can decrease this one to four buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah ?\nMarketing: Right now we have five .\nUser Interface: But uh , you can make a f quite a big uh remote remote control for uh just the same price as a small one .\nProject Manager: Yeah . That's no problem .\n",
      "User Interface: Just uh you only have to pay for the double curved or single curved . It uh it's a bit uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah . It's uh it's more the moulds in which they are being made , I think . Single curved is really easy to just fill in .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: And cases come right out of the machine .\nUser Interface: {gap} .\n",
      "Project Manager: And single curved you have to have a different uh different machine , than a flat one . I think this is a really easy one . Um , what does everybody think about a flat or a single curved design ? Freek , what do you think ?\nMarketing: Well , I still think we should go for the single curve design .\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: But then again , {gap} all these changes are not really okay with me .\nIndustrial Designer: Richard's argument was very good . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yep .\nMarketing: But since we just have to .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} We have to cut costs . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah I'm ag\nMarketing: I'd rather just go to the board and get us to spend {vocalsound} eighteen dollars a a remote .\nProject Manager: Ask for more money . Yeah . Yeah . I am agreeing with the usability . Yeah .\nMarketing: Or do some market research and see what the options are .\nProject Manager: Yeah . But th um I think we can then keep the single curved one . Just to express our L_C_D_ screen a bit more .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So people will use it more , and especially for the help functions ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: it will be good if we have scroll bar , scroll button . It will be necessary to have good help function , as well . So this is scroll . I think it was better to have this price list a bit earlier . {vocalsound} Before we went on to the to the whole design .\nMarketing: Yes . Definitely . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: The th\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker} I'm glad we could make a bit .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: It's pretty different , if you saw the last one than {vocalsound} this one .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It's pretty different .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But this is not really like for the group we were making our remote .\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: This will really require a lot of marketing to get this to sell .\nProject Manager: Yeah . It will . Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: 'Cause if older people like familiar forms and familiar stuff . This is not familiar for them .\n",
      "Project Manager: No , but I think {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So we're gonna have to do a lotta convincing them .\nProject Manager: I think the most {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But they know the scroll-buttons from uh old radios . Uh they cal also uh buttons like that for uh changing uh channels .\nProject Manager: That's right .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: We can let l\nUser Interface: So maybe it's uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: We can stick it out , a bit . Like a old old buttons . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Maybe that's recognisable for them as well . Yeah . That's a good one .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So , I'm afraid we have to move on . And it's uh it's b uh less frightening , I think . If they see this design they think oh , there are only five buttons , and uh {disfmarker} But we will see .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: That's true . Might uh {disfmarker} might be confusing too .\nProject Manager: Yeah . That's definitely right .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: They'd be like , what ? Only five buttons ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: But very special , so uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I would buy it . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . But you're not sixty . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's right . I would buy it if I was six . {vocalsound} No I don't know . What it costs under twelve and a half Euros ? No ? Uh , yes they are .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: No . But we can go on with the project evaluation .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Let's see . I can sit down I think . We still have fifteen minutes left , so we're nice on schedule .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um , the project process .\nMarketing: So um , I like set up all these criteria . And evaluation of the thingy . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Evaluation criteria . That's right . That was the the point I forgot . I should {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: There we are . Evaluation criteria . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Thank you . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Go ahead .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We've got five minutes I think for those criteria .\nMarketing: Five more minutes ?\nProject Manager: No we've got fifteen minutes but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Uh yes . What ?\nMarketing: 'Kay so I did some literature study study , and analysis of the requirements we set up earlier .\nProject Manager: Uh yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Translated it into criteria , which would be these . Um , is the remote fancy ? The shape , look and feel . Innovative ? What new functions are there ? Uh , easy to use ? Uh , learnability is a very important factor here . Uh , is it functional ? Are there not too many functions uh among the functions ? And are the those functions that are there , are they useful ? And the cost . The target group . Is the remote really for the group we're making it for ? And recognability . If our company is {disfmarker} If it is easily recognisable that our company made it ? And {disfmarker} So we're supposed to evaluate it right now .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Let's see . Oh I have to say this was a little hard , because the minutes of our last meeting were not here .\nProject Manager: Yeah , that's because my pen failed to upload his data .\nUser Interface: Mm . Yeah ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I tried to\nMarketing: Interesting .\nProject Manager: but it's uh it's giving errors by downloading the software .\nMarketing: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm . 'Kay .\nMarketing: Is the design fancy , on a scale of one to seven ?\n",
      "Project Manager: I think it's fancy .\nIndustrial Designer: Six .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Six .\nUser Interface: Uh six . Yeah .\nMarketing: We all go for six ? Good . Um , is the design innovative ?\nProject Manager: Very . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm . Sh\nMarketing: I think so , with our L_C_D_ screen , docking station , scroll-buttons .\nProject Manager: Subtitles , buttons . Yeah . Seven .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Seven ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we've got twenty cents for our docking station , huh ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Should be do-able .\nProject Manager: Yeah . That's right .\nMarketing: Is the design easy to use ?\nUser Interface: Mm . Not really .\nProject Manager: That's a bit dodgy .\nMarketing: Well {disfmarker} Would be for us . But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: For old people I I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I would say four . Four or five between . Between four or five .\nUser Interface: W\nIndustrial Designer: Four or five . Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Four .\nMarketing: I'd go for four , too .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Is it functional ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Is the design functional ? Um , do we have all functions that we want to include ?\nProject Manager: Yes .\nUser Interface: N Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I think we do . Do we have too many functions ?\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: No .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: I don't think so . It's pretty slim .\nProject Manager: Think it's uh seven .\nMarketing: Seven . Oh , and do we um take care of the biggest frustrations of the remote control ? Like it getting lost and {disfmarker} R_S_I_ influences ?\nUser Interface: Mm m\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , we haven't thought of that one .\nProject Manager: It was .\nMarketing: Think we do .\nProject Manager: I had them worked out . Mm . They are ugly , not very functional , and getting lost .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Are the production costs within the preset limits ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Well they are now .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Does the design fit the group of focus ?\nUser Interface: Mm , th yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I think that's a three .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: No I think with our new radio button , I think it's uh I think it's better .\nMarketing: I think it doesn't .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Uh {disfmarker} We have to test it s But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I don't know .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I still {disfmarker} I think it's too m too fancy . Too too flashy .\nMarketing: I think {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I think a radio button is not exactly what older people expect to have a remote control .\nUser Interface: Uh , yeah , true .\nProject Manager: Yeah . I would give it a four .\nMarketing: I'm not sure . I think I'd go for two .\nUser Interface: I go for three . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Then we have to do the three . It's the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: 'Kay . Is the company company recognisable ?\nProject Manager: Yes it is .\nUser Interface: Yeah yeah .\nMarketing: Well , we have the logo there .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And they wanna put fashion in their products . Uh in the slogan of the company . And we have the removable front cases . So , I think it's very recognisable .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yep .\n",
      "Marketing: So that will be this . I was also supposed to calculate the score , but thought we would have another private thingy after this .\nProject Manager: We've got a calculate it . Mm ?\nIndustrial Designer: Twendag sieven an twendag .\nMarketing: Is this {disfmarker} Like after this , are we done ? Or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: N We've gonna {disfmarker} We're going to evaluate it .\nMarketing: We're gonna go to our other room again . Well , anyhow . These are seven factors times seven is forty something . Two ? No .\nProject Manager: {gap} Forty nine .\n",
      "Marketing: Nine ? Uh , minus one . Minus three , minus four . {vocalsound} Minus four . So that would be minus eight . Forty one out of forty nine .\nProject Manager: Forty one . That's {disfmarker} Around eighty percent .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: What is it ?\nMarketing: Guess I'll just type that in on the bottom here .\nProject Manager: That's eighty four percent . I think that's a pretty nice score .\nUser Interface: Hmm . Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Hmm . 'Kay . So that will be the evaluation .\nProject Manager: Thank you . So , that brings us to the project evaluation . Yep . Thank you .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Project process . Did we move through the right phases , you think ? {vocalsound} Along the process ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah . But it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Think we should have a should have had the finance thingy a lot earlier . In the design phase .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: That's right . So lack of information about prices .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . That's true .\nMarketing: Yeah . Definitely .\nProject Manager: Okay . Uh {disfmarker} Okay . Satisfaction . Was there room for creativity ?\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Not too much . {vocalsound} No . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: It's because of the finance sheet . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , there w there was enough room , but the finance uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , true . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: The room was {disfmarker} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: And I would've liked to go for the younger users also .\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nMarketing: And just to be able to access internet and get something of your own .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Restrictions . Internet access . 'Kay . Leadership . Was it clear what everybody had to do uh according to their roles and functions ? Yeah ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Teamwork ? Did it work out ? Working together ? Also , you {disfmarker} two of you with the uh last phase ?\n",
      "User Interface: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , was okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Nice .\nIndustrial Designer: The tasks are very structured , so you can just do step by step and it's very easy .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {gap} tasks . Okay . Were the means sufficient for the tasks uh we had to do ? Or were they too much ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Well , the smart-board , the d d drawing is just a pain in the ass , but {disfmarker} The digital the digital pen is very nice .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Smart-board .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: If it wants to download its uh data . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: But {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Failed download . Smart-board was irritating . {vocalsound} So you rather wanted to have a flip-over ? Or something else ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: A flip-over or a more precise uh digit\n",
      "User Interface: A flipper's uh easier , so {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Faster as well , I think .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Flip-over .\nUser Interface: But if you want to share uh of uh when you make um a picture like this uh on the presentation , it's easier to uh share it with uh other people . Uh so uh\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: you can sh save it uh and uh put it on the internet , or uh uh in shared f uh folder or uh sh uh shared directory .\nMarketing: Yeah ,\n",
      "User Interface: So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I tried to open the file on my laptop ,\nUser Interface: Yeah ? No ?\nIndustrial Designer: No . Didn't work .\nMarketing: but {vocalsound} not possible .\nProject Manager: Uh you need a smart board uh application I think .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: But I think you can {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: T can uh can you export it uh like a {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Should be possible . Yeah you can export it as image .\nMarketing: {gap} no .\n",
      "Project Manager: Must {disfmarker} Yeah must be {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Should've done that then .\nProject Manager: So the sharing of the information was uh was okay ?\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nMarketing: Pen is here .\nProject Manager: Uh , network .\nUser Interface: Uh {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: Yeah , pen is here on the table .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Uh , yeah . So you can {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . {gap} It's possible .\nUser Interface: It's possible .\nMarketing: Mm . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: That's nice . Have we found new ideas for having this kind of meetings ? Or {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Um , yeah maybe um uh when we n uh just uh give the numbers of of uh {disfmarker} Uh uh o one of uh out of s uh sev {gap}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Um it's uh easier to uh to do the th things that are like that on a computer . Uh , so uh just l uh like uh at u university uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker} Yeah . So everybody puts his own score .\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And then {vocalsound} it mediates the score ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: and you can get one {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: That's better . So that's uh {disfmarker} How do we call ? Evaluation criteria . Okay . Mm , any more ideas ? Or questions about the project ? Or about the product ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Because I think then that we get to our last sheet . Are the costs within the budget ?\nUser Interface: Mm yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: They are .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Considering we are not going to make a docking station .\nProject Manager: Do we {disfmarker} Docking station . That's a good point .\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nProject Manager: But maybe because of the docking station the price of the remote can also be a little bit higher ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh and I think you can compensate that as well .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Perhaps .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: So I think that shouldn't be the biggest problem , because it's very cheap to make as well .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Do we think we gonna get the twelve and a half million ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Or what was it ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Fifty grand .\nProject Manager: Fifteen fifteen million . I think we will . {vocalsound} If we gonna export this product . It's innovative .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Especially in America . People are pretty decadent . Sometimes .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , still I think {disfmarker} I mean if we're n gonna make a scroll-button anyway it'd be more for the younger people than for the older people .\nProject Manager: You can do more . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Ah .\nMarketing: So maybe we should just re-focus .\nProject Manager: Just put it on the market for everybody . You can you can change markets where by changing the front covers .\nUser Interface: Ah .\nMarketing: Or specifically for younger people .\nProject Manager: That's one thing you can change it with .\nUser Interface: Ah .\nMarketing: That's true .\n",
      "Project Manager: So you can also try to uh reach the younger people by uh putting fancy covers on on the market . Just as a test . See how it works . That's I think a good advantage .\nMarketing: Yeah , I think then it would be way more uh popular with younger people than it is , than would be with older people . Even if it were their covers .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Uh , uh then I think we can have our little celebration , right now .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nMarketing: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {gap} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: That's it . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Party party .\nProject Manager: Yeah . I think we still have to fit in one more questionnaire . I think .\nUser Interface: Where's the champagne ?\nMarketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: I don't know . I didn't get a message from the from ending of the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Uh , I believe y uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh I think I have one now .\nMarketing: Oh you did .\nProject Manager: Five more minutes ? Oh that's nice .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Then we still have some questions . If somebody has some questions they can ask them now . Or we can put these in the project folder as well . Maybe that's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Export as picture , I think .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Hmm . This is another network , I guess . Does somebody see the project folder ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I don't . Hmm . My Documents .\nUser Interface: Uh maybe uh they will save it . So uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , I'll just put it in My Documents\nMarketing: Yeah , it probably will .\nProject Manager: and uh {disfmarker} That's okay . Okay . {vocalsound} I think I'm going to make our final presentation now .\n",
      "Marketing: Oh yeah , you're supposed to make a final {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} And then I will be back in about ten minutes to show you the final presentation . Summary of the project .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: Are we supposed to go into our own rooms again ?\nUser Interface: Uh maybe we have to fill uh another questionnaire .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Questionnaire . I think you all get a questionnaire in in your room .\nUser Interface: So uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 10402,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 23,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager started meeting on the detailed design of the remote control. User Interface and Industrial Designer gave a presentation on the prototype with a banana leaf base station and a hand-sized remote with two scroll wheels, the turbo button, the teletext button, the calling button, the rechargeable-batteries power source, and the speaker regular chip. Next, the group evaluated based on Marketing's list of user requirement criteria. Then, groupmates discussed the cost estimation, including the component production cost. They agreed to use plastic instead of rubber material for the dual chips. Also, they agreed not to use LCD and no button supplements to avoid over budget. Lastly, the group discussed the project process. The group agreed they had creativity, while User Interface suggested that they should find out more target markets. Besides, Project Manager suggested doing a street survey. Also, User Interface suggested that they could simplify the interface and the circuit board.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . Good afternoon again .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: So we should have our final meeting about the detail designed of {disfmarker} detail design of the product of the remote control . Um {vocalsound} So here is the agenda for today . Uh uh just going to go quickly through the minutes of the last last uh meeting then we have a p presentation of prototype of you two , sounds interesting . And we'll have um {vocalsound} presentation of evaluation crit criteria by ou our Marketing Experts . Then we'll have to go through finance evaluation of the of the cost of the thing and um hopefully uh we should fit the target o tw of twelve point five uh uh Euro . {vocalsound} Okay . So let's go . Uh if I go quickly through the minutes of the last meeting . {vocalsound} So we went through th uh w we took this following decisions . No L_C_D_ , no speech recognition technology , okay , we went through a b to a banana look and feel for the remote control . We went through the use of wheels and but buttons . {vocalsound} And also the use of a basis station for battery ch charging and uh also to um call the to call the mot mote remote control when it is lost . Okay . Um . Good . So guys let {gap} this uh wonderful thing .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay so we can go to the slides .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh yeah . Sorry . Um .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Number three . Oh number two sorry .\nProject Manager: Which is {gap} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So final design . Final design . Okay so Michael you can go ahead .\nUser Interface: Yeah so uh following our decision to uh make a yellow {disfmarker} well to make a banana\nProject Manager: Yeah can you show it to the the camera maybe .\nUser Interface: remote {disfmarker} okay so we actually have a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: You can pull it out first , maybe .\nUser Interface: We've {disfmarker} well first first of all we made a an attractive {vocalsound} base station uh with a banana leaf uh look and feel um and uh\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: bana sit {disfmarker} the banana sits in there k you know nicely weighted so that it's not gonna tip over and um this is the remote itself , it's kind of it's it's ergonomic , it fits in the hand uh rather well . We've got the two uh {vocalsound} uh scroll wheels here which you know one on the the left for the uh volume and the one on the right for for the channel and uh underneath {vocalsound} we have the uh the turbo button which is in like a nice uh trigger position for you know for pressing quite naturally .\n",
      "Project Manager: What's the use uh of the t turbo button already ?\nUser Interface: This is when you when you uh are scrolling the uh {disfmarker} through the channels you can tell it to to skip th past channels that you {disfmarker} quickly rather th\nProject Manager: Ah yeah yeah an then you stop when you stop it stops .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Well when you stop scrolling the wheel it stops . But normally with uh {disfmarker} it will just uh s stay on each station briefly so you can see the the picture .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And we we do have one more functionality . If you take the banana as such and uh you press the turbo button , so it switch ons the switch ons the T_V_ .\nUser Interface: The T_V_ yeah .\nProject Manager: Which one ?\nUser Interface: The s the turbo button .\nIndustrial Designer: The turbo button .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: So rather than having uh an extra button for um for the on off switch you just use the turbo button .\nIndustrial Designer: Additional button .\nMarketing: What this button for ?\nUser Interface: This is a teletext button . So once you press that then you get teletext\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: and you can use the the channel selector scroll wheel as uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: To navigate it through th through teletext .\nUser Interface: To navigate yeah .\nMarketing: But if you want to go to page seven hundred ?\nIndustrial Designer: That's right , that's right .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {gap} with the wheel it's easy .\nMarketing: How man\n",
      "User Interface: Well then you can you you have like a little uh number selection thing , you press the {gap} the the teletext button uh to move between uh the fields and then you can just scroll the number back and forth so you have s you go {disfmarker} you scroll to seven and then zero zero and then you can uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I don't understand it . Can you repeat it ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well you can you can press press the teletext button\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and then you then you can you can f\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So then then both the scroll buttons they are for teletext browsing .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And you can tele\nMarketing: Ah okay okay . Okay . Okay okay .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah ,\nUser Interface: Mm uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: once you press the teletext button then the scroll buttons they are more for teletext , they are no more for channel or vol volume .\nMarketing: Okay . I see . I see . Okay . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And this is the uh the infrared uh port .\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\n",
      "User Interface: Also the top of the banana .\nProject Manager: Excellent .\nUser Interface: So . And then we have\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: in the uh in the base station we have the the button at the front for uh for calling the uh the banana .\nProject Manager: Calling . Excellent .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: And the the leaves plays the roles of of antennas ?\nUser Interface: Actually they do .\nProject Manager: Oh .\nUser Interface: That's that's yeah that's uh that's form and function in the one in the one uh object .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . So it always means , whatever the rays goes by they they get reflected and then you are having a better coverage .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It's like antennas .\nUser Interface: Yeah . So .\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: But yeah that's um that's just like {disfmarker} that's an attractive um base station .\nProject Manager: Great . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} So .\nProject Manager: So , what else ?\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And for the power source we are having solar cells and rechargeable batteries and this and uh the basis station is going to have the input from the mm power line for for charging the batteries .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Is it really weight ? Is it light or {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: It is very light .\nProject Manager: Yeah , they're light .\nUser Interface: It's it's uh it's about the weight of a banana .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: You know , to give you the correct look and feel .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Ok\nIndustrial Designer: And we have put these different colours so that people don't mistake them mistake it as a banana .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Otherwise it's you know a child comes and so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay . Yeah yeah yeah , I see . I under I understand .\nUser Interface: I think a child would try to eat it anyway , so maybe we should\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: consider that . {gap} maybe health and safety aspects .\nProject Manager: Ah yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: {gap}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Oh we didn't think of that yet . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So for the power source , apparently you still {disfmarker} you you want to use both solar cells and batteries .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh yeah that's right .\nProject Manager: Uh you mean {disfmarker} okay . So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I don't really know if the solar cells are actually necessary any more if you have a recharging base station .\nProject Manager: Yeah , where are going to {disfmarker} where are you are you going to place them ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm mm-hmm . It'll It'll be always at top somewhere at there .\nUser Interface: If I was gonna place them I'd put them on the on the top here since that's like uh the black bit\nProject Manager: You have enough surface ? You {gap} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: but yeah I don't I really don't think it's necessary to have the solar cells anymore .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah because now we are having rechargeable batteries\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: so that that is {gap} .\nProject Manager: What will be the autonomy ? Roughly ?\n",
      "User Interface: The what sorry ?\nProject Manager: The autonomy . Autonomy .\nUser Interface: What do you mean ?\nProject Manager: Uh I mean how long does i how how how long can it be held off a station ?\nMarketing: How long the {disfmarker} how long the bit the batteries long .\nUser Interface: Ah . Ah . A long time .\nProject Manager: Yeah . A long {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} No no no ,\nIndustrial Designer: Eight to ten eight to ten hours .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: it can {disfmarker} it should be weeks .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: N most {disfmarker} no most of the time it's not being used .\nProject Manager: Yeah , so it's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah but y people don't like to put it back in the base station all the time people leave wanna leave it on the couch so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So when when you are making it on {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's used only when you {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Mm-hmm . No eight or eight or ten hours of working .\nUser Interface: Ah , okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: If you are just leaving like that it'll be much longer .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah . F weeks .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . That's right .\nProject Manager: Right . Next slide ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . And we are having the speakers regular chip for control . Pricing is {disfmarker} was a factor so that's why we have gone for a regular chip only not the advanced chip . And uh that's it .\nProject Manager: Okay . {gap} Okay . Those really sounds very good .\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Nothing else to add ?\n",
      "User Interface: It seems to be falling over .\nMarketing: I l yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: I like I like it . Maybe the the thing that convince me the less is the {vocalsound} the multifunctional buttons . Looks a bit {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: You want to have more functional buttons ?\nMarketing: Looks a bit puzzled uh I dunno how to say {vocalsound} that .\nIndustrial Designer: You are not convinced .\nMarketing: You {disfmarker} the the b the buttons change h h their function depending if y it's teletext or not {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Not not many , we we want to keep it simple . So that this button fo is for teletext which is usually also the case , that usually there is a teletext button and once you press that , the channel buttons , they baco become the scrolling buttons .\nMarketing: And the volume button will will become {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: It's up to you , means .\nProject Manager: Well in fact b both will be {disfmarker} could be useful , navigating through teletext .\nIndustrial Designer: Now that {disfmarker} Means let's say this this can move the the larger digits and this can move the smaller digits .\n",
      "User Interface: Or can move between positions in the in the number .\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: And what about people who want to use digits ? Butto real buttons ?\nProject Manager: Wow .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . So there was there was a constraint that the surface area which we have on this banana on one side because of the shape .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So we are targeting a segment which is which is just very trendy kind of thing , they they don't care about the buttons any more . And anyway {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . Because have you thought about configuration and all this kind of uh stuff ?\nUser Interface: It's all automatic .\nMarketing: It's all automatic .\nUser Interface: Yep .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Okay yeah it's fine .\nProject Manager: Very good uh yeah {disfmarker}\nMarketing: W we are living in a wonderful world . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} you th yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Bananas everywhere .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Automatically configure {gap} . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So we have to go through now evaluations .\nIndustrial Designer: Evalua yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So your slides are ready ?\nMarketing: S\nProject Manager: Uh you're four I think .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So this is one , which one is this one ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay . I {vocalsound} I const I constructed a a list of criteria based on the on the general user requirements . And each criteria is {vocalsound} will be evaluated it's uh logical criteria so we must users must say i if it's true or is {disfmarker} or if it's false in a in a scale ranging from zero to seven .\nIndustrial Designer: Why this strange factor of seven ?\nMarketing: Because i I'm sorry . Sorry .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Usually I have seen that scales are from one to ten .\nMarketing: Ah yeah . It's from {disfmarker} sorry , it's from one to seven . It's from from one to seven sorry . Because it should be an even it should be an even uh scale ,\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: Num number {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: and five is too short and nine is too long .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I'm a I I'm {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay fine , got the idea .\n",
      "Project Manager: So to have {disfmarker} in order to have enough granularity {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Sorry ?\nProject Manager: it's in order to have enough granularity in the evaluation .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: The variance is mi it's is minimal .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , okay , great .\nMarketing: I'm um answering your question .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Yeah yeah .\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Go ahead .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} And that's the criteria I I found more useful . I think I sh I {vocalsound} I could write the criteria in the on the whiteboard ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Sure .\nMarketing: And we all four could range\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Yeah yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: could evaluate the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: So you can say fancy , handy . Handy .\nMarketing: Okay let's let's evaluate if it's fancy or {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it's fancy , according to me .\n",
      "Marketing: Seven but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , six .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: S seven .\nIndustrial Designer: Seven . Seven by me .\nProject Manager: Six .\nMarketing: I would say seven .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: It's quite fancy .\nIndustrial Designer: So you can add seven plus six plus seven plus {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: No , wait .\nUser Interface: Yeah uh five .\nProject Manager: What do you say seven ? Five ?\nIndustrial Designer: Five .\n",
      "User Interface: Five , maybe maybe maybe six it's it's I guess it's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay , six point five .\nUser Interface: yeah .\nProject Manager: Handy ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Again I'll give seven .\nProject Manager: Seven .\nUser Interface: I'd give it a six like I'd I think it's probably more handy than my current remote , 'cause of the scroll wheels\nMarketing: Six .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\n",
      "User Interface: but maybe loses the point for not having you know the extra buttons when you reall if you do need them for some reason but you know you can always use your other remote .\nProject Manager: So seven , seven ,\nIndustrial Designer: Seven for me .\nProject Manager: six ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Six .\nProject Manager: six point five . Functional . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I'll give five .\nProject Manager: Four .\nMarketing: I would say {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {gap}\nUser Interface: Well it depends when you say functional , do you mean it does what we want it to do , or d does what it does , you know , can it make you coffee ?\nMarketing: Everything ar\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh for a remote control , does he have all the {gap}\nUser Interface: You know .\nMarketing: Mm everything {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah . {gap}\nProject Manager: you could expect .\nMarketing: It's compared to the all\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\nMarketing: remote controls .\n",
      "User Interface: That's before {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: That's right . The standards . What is available in the market off the shelf .\nUser Interface: Yeah . I have to say four .\nMarketing: Actually I don't know what are the r the real specification of a of a universal remote contro\nUser Interface: Well it's not a universal remote . Remember we're focus we're supposed to focus just on T_V_s .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Ah it's not an univer but it's for all kind of T_V_s ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Well all T_V_s but only T_ {disfmarker} only T_V_s I guess .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So it's universal but for T_V_s . {vocalsound} So s uh four ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Five .\nProject Manager: Five ?\nUser Interface: Four .\nProject Manager: Four .\nMarketing: Four . Four .\nIndustrial Designer: So four point two ?\nUser Interface: Just four .\nProject Manager: Four .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} four . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Obviously there are some outliers so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: So four ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay cool ? Cool device .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: There I'll give it seven .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: It means cool features , like new features actually .\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Which {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: For a T_V_ the most important feature which I felt was the locator which is a cool feature . And then the scroll buttons are again cool features . We don't have L_C_D_ for it but that we decided we don't want to have .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Seven .\nMarketing: I would say five .\nUser Interface: I'll say five .\nProject Manager: Six .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Seven .\nProject Manager: Plus six , I say {disfmarker} I said seven .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So it's six .\nUser Interface: S yeah .\nMarketing: You said seven ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: 'Cause it's five five seven seven so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Uh , okay , definitely easy to use .\nIndustrial Designer: Definitely seven .\nUser Interface: Seven .\nProject Manager: Seven . Seven . And you ? Outl you are not lik outlier .\nMarketing: Five . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Seven {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay okay okay okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Sorry , I have them {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Alright , now here's the sixty million Dollar question ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: well , twenty five twenty five Euro question .\nProject Manager: Of course I'll buy the {gap} banana . {gap}\nUser Interface: What do you what do you guys reckon ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Of cour Of course the most difficult question for the end . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Well {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I'll say five .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: I'll say five .\n",
      "Project Manager: Twenty five Euros . {vocalsound} Cheap .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I find it quite cheap {vocalsound} actually .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I dunno . If i i it depends , if you live in in Switzerland or you live in {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , so the target price is for all Europe , or only for rich countries ? {vocalsound} It's more targeting U_K_ or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I don't know . Wha the initial specifications were for the whole all Europe or {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So this is selling costs , not production costs .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah this is the the initial specifications .\nProject Manager: Yeah yeah sure . Um {disfmarker} Five .\nMarketing: I would say six . It's quite cheap actually .\nUser Interface: I'd say two .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Aw , should be nice in your {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Why ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I don't want a banana on my {vocalsound} living room table , a banana remote .\n",
      "Marketing: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} No but it's really handy actually if you see .\nUser Interface: It is handy , it's handy , but it it's terrible .\nIndustrial Designer: It's it's so handy . And then {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} It's kitsch .\nIndustrial Designer: Anyb anybody who comes here {vocalsound} {disfmarker} anybody who comes to your home he'll at least ask once what is this .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah , but it's not a positive thing .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: It's a very positive thing if you see like that {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Well , you know , it's it's handy , it's ergonomic , but it's a banana .\nProject Manager: Well , don't forget well , don't for don't forget who we're targeting also who are f f who are wh\nIndustrial Designer: Youngsters .\nProject Manager: yeah , youngst youngst\nUser Interface: Yeah but it says I , I would buy this , so .\nMarketing: Actually maybe {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: No {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} if you would be young .\nMarketing: Yeah {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Not telling that you are young . Li li like a teenager for instance .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} No , it's I . I would buy {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay you're you're crazy teenager and you like fun things .\nIndustrial Designer: You want to flaunt .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: You {disfmarker} with your girlfriend or something .\nProject Manager: Yeah , you want to show the beautiful banana you have . {gap}\nUser Interface: S s\nIndustrial Designer: Or might be it does some other kind of thing but {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Still I I'd say two . I don't think I {disfmarker} at any stage in my life I would want a banana remote control , really .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh yeah , crazy .\nProject Manager: Okay so you s you give {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I can say , maybe there is a market for it , I dunno .\n",
      "Project Manager: oh yeah yeah I know I know .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So you say two .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I say five .\nProject Manager: F I d I say five . You say ?\nMarketing: I change the question . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So what's the new question ?\nIndustrial Designer: And you have saved it ?\nMarketing: So yeah upload the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: You'll have to reload .\nProject Manager: Uh yeah , I think so . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Okay , so , it depends if uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah it's two different situations . If you really need an universal remote control or if you would change your remote control for a n for a new one .\nProject Manager: Yeah that's two different question .\nUser Interface: If I had t if I had to spend twenty five Euro , if that was like my limit , maybe I would buy it . Because the other twenty five Euro remote controls are probably gonna look\nProject Manager: Ugly .\nUser Interface: worse than a banana . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: They're not going to be as {disfmarker} And they they might not be a as easy as this {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: And it {disfmarker} yeah this is gonna f you know handy to use .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: So ? What now ? What range ?\nProject Manager: I stick to five .\nIndustrial Designer: S\nUser Interface: Although it still has it still has the word of course at the beginning {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I go slightly up . Six .\nMarketing: Six .\nUser Interface: so I dunno . Um .\n",
      "Project Manager: W we have six , five {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I'd give it I'd give it a\nProject Manager: Three {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I give it a four now .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Six ? Six ?\nProject Manager: So we are six , five , four {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Six , five , four .\nMarketing: Six , so it's uh five point five , or less .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: So and last question , will I change my rem change my remote control from Mando banana . Um , zero . No uh we can't . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So one .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Actually yeah , I {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well if {gap} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: No uh let's say I'll put two .\n",
      "User Interface: I'd say three , I mean my remote control is kinda {disfmarker} at home is pretty terrible . If it was {disfmarker} change my remote control of my D_V_D_ player for a Mando banana then I would be more inclined to\nProject Manager: It's for the T_V_ .\nUser Interface: but uh {disfmarker} 'cause it's really bad but uh {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I'd say a three . {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: I'll still give it five . Yeah .\nMarketing: Five ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Two three five two three fi and two .\nMarketing: {gap} You are romantic , really .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So it's somewhere three point five I think .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I would say two .\nProject Manager: So it's r Yeah , three point five . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Who is the outlier ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Wh wh {vocalsound} you said five ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No no you say five , he is the outlier .\nIndustrial Designer: No I said five .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay just just do a sum .\nMarketing: I don't know if {vocalsound} it's a {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's not very promising but you know we're not young trendsetters . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No because there are more {disfmarker} yeah , we shouldn't sum like that .\nProject Manager: Well maybe we should we should uh have a look globally glob\nMarketing: Because the the last two questions is much more important than the rest actually .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Otherwise we wouldn't {disfmarker} we will not sell .\n",
      "User Interface: Is there some some formula you're using that says you have to sum them up ?\nMarketing: Uh no I didn't {gap} anything . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well just leave it at that then .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Oops .\nProject Manager: So maybe maybe w we can we should stick to general feeling . We can had uh have a {disfmarker} out of these numbers , which which is that well we should go for it .\nMarketing: Yeah , the uh {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Problem with connectors ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Do you want me to sum\nUser Interface: No .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah it's it's funny . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: o I think it's not {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I think it it kind of you just lose information if you sum it , so .\nProject Manager: Okay . So let's move uh let's move on .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , sure .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay , {gap} now now we have to mm to estimate {vocalsound} uh the cost okay . So I prepare an Excel sh uh an Excel sheet . Um well we are going to calculate the production costs . We should we should be below twelve point five . So I already uh put some pu some numbers here , okay . We are going to go through {vocalsound} {disfmarker} so this is the number the mm number of components we need for this thing . So it appears that there were things that we didn't thought about . Uh and also things that I uh I d I forget to uh to put like solar cells .\n",
      "User Interface: Well we decided against the solar cells so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Oh yeah finally we say no .\nIndustrial Designer: Solar cells , yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah , we said no to that .\nProject Manager: Okay so let's let's go let's go let go through all the lines . So hand dynamo . This something we didn't thought about . But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: You mean , charging it by shaking the banana .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I think rechargeable batteries will take care of the power thing .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay so we we stick to battery , one .\nIndustrial Designer: To bring the cost {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: No kinetic also . I don't I don't see the difference between kinetic and dynamo .\nUser Interface: Well maybe dynamo is like you have to actually {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Ah you have to {disfmarker} ah okay I see so kinetic is really uh shaking the banana .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: S\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Crazy . Okay . So those banana is falling . Let's go ahead . So we we st only have one for battery . Uh then for electronics um so I didn't put anything for the {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: So we have the regular chip on the print , which is one .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And that's it .\nProject Manager: Okay . No {disfmarker} so we hin\nIndustrial Designer: And we have sample speaker .\nProject Manager: Yeah so one .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah . {gap} the cost of that is very high .\n",
      "Project Manager: Ooh ye ye ye the cost is increasing . So we are {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well actually that that {disfmarker} no that sample speaker is not {disfmarker} we we're not using that , we're just using the the very beep {disfmarker} simple beep ,\nProject Manager: The beep .\nUser Interface: that s that sample thing is like the voice recording and everything .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: That's what {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Okay so I'll remove it .\n",
      "User Interface: So {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: S\nUser Interface: I say that {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: So don't we need a {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: And we have sev\nProject Manager: Oh there is no listing for r radio frequency thing .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So we we'll put some extras , if there is something .\nProject Manager: Yeah maybe . We'll see later .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay so in {disfmarker} for the case um {vocalsound} I put single curved .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . To reduce the cost , it's okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well , wait a second ,\nProject Manager: Because we have two things .\nUser Interface: no , it's it's double curved , it's got a c , it's uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh it's got all the directions\nProject Manager: No .\nIndustrial Designer: so don't worry . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well d yeah it's monotonic {vocalsound} but\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It's got a {gap} direction . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: it's got {disfmarker} but if you hold it if you hold it that way that's two curved , one on this side , one on that side , but they're opposite sides .\nProject Manager: Well . What a {disfmarker} what i if I put one here .\nUser Interface: This is actually {disfmarker} I mean this probably\nMarketing: Actually what's the differen\nUser Interface: this probably actually costs more than three\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah so let's put one here in the {gap} then instead of single\nUser Interface: if you {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Okay .\nProject Manager: oka all right .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So we stick to plastic , it cost nothing .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . That's right .\nUser Interface: Well {gap} {disfmarker} no didn't we say we wanted to do a rubber {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No , it's too {disfmarker} no .\nUser Interface: {gap} if you drop it ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Too expensive .\n",
      "Project Manager: It's too expensive . We're already at eleven .\nUser Interface: Well when {disfmarker} okay . Well we we'll come back we'll come back and see if we can fit it in .\nProject Manager: Okay so I put rubber one . Okay so special colour , yellow .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh for the interface we have {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: We don't have any push buttons .\nUser Interface: No , we have two push buttons .\nProject Manager: We have three .\nIndustrial Designer: No that is a scroll wheel itself , it'll be put in that .\nUser Interface: Huh .\n",
      "Project Manager: No no . We have two scroll , and we have three push buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Ah okay , okay .\nUser Interface: Uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} And {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay it's gonna have to be plastic .\nMarketing: Actually whe whe when you wrote regular chip you should put two , because there is another chip here .\nProject Manager: No it's {gap} no chip . This is just radio frequency {gap} . Th This is no chip .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah but\nIndustrial Designer: No . There's no chip there .\n",
      "Marketing: you need {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: It just emits the signal .\nProject Manager: It's just {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: And the receiver accepts it and that's it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Fo i it does nothing actually ?\nProject Manager: No . Just {disfmarker} only {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Just se sends the signal , that's it .\nUser Interface: It's a recharger thing and uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay w we didn't think a thought about uh integrated scroll wheel push buttons .\n",
      "User Interface: Well I actually did um think about it myself {vocalsound} but I thought you know {disfmarker} because you could potentially you know you could be pushing it down as you scroll it for a {disfmarker} instead of a turbo button\nProject Manager: Yeah ,\nUser Interface: but you know the turbo button does add that extra class .\nProject Manager: so {disfmarker} Yeah .\nUser Interface: You know . So I mean if we're if we're over budget then maybe we could we could rethink that .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . So no L_C_D_ , so for {disfmarker} we have no button supplements , right ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yep . No .\nProject Manager: Uh {vocalsound} well in fact could we could not we consider this button as a button supplement because {disfmarker} oh no , these are these are for colours , co and special forms , special colours and special materials .\nUser Interface: Yeah . No we're not {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: we don't need anything special for the buttons .\nProject Manager: Okay so we are over budget .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . So first thing which we should take care of is ,\nUser Interface: Make it plastic instead of rubber .\nIndustrial Designer: instead of rubber , let it be plastic .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: And then we're basically o on budget except for you know ten cents .\nIndustrial Designer: And uh that much money will be required for the base station , which is not there .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: So mayb in fact n we have to put two here\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: because it cost nothing .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah well pl the base station is made out of m many units of {vocalsound} plastic .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So might be ninety centimes for the the remaining things which {disfmarker} the cord and everything which'll go {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Exactly exactly so we have margin for that stuff .\nUser Interface: Does that include charging circuitry and everything ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah maybe . Okay good . Wha\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Excellent .\nUser Interface: So what do we do with the extra profits ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um we'll invest in R_ and D_ .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} The next fruit .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So well we're under the the the cost . So we can go to {disfmarker} through to project evaluation . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Okay so now we have a product which nobody would would buy . Would {disfmarker} yeah , would buy .\nProject Manager: Sorry ?\nUser Interface: No we have a product which none of us would buy . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah because th th the evaluation project {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Which is different . Which is different . None of us will buy it .\nUser Interface: No it's people in in in Milan and uh in Paris that are gonna buy it .\nMarketing: Ah would buy , yeah .\nUser Interface: We're n\nMarketing: Massively , yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: yeah . We're not in Milan or Paris .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . Okay . Uh you have been in Milan a couple of times , so .\nProject Manager: This is a battery . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Actually there were a lot of {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} And you said the lowest {gap} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: This is what we {disfmarker} which you can mm {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: S Detachable battery .\n",
      "Project Manager: It did {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: That's 'cause I'm sick of Milan .\nMarketing: Yeah , for the batteries {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Extra battery , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay so um {vocalsound} project process .\nProject Manager: Exac {vocalsound} Well in fact I I did not know {vocalsound} I didn't know really what to say here .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} If uh if you have any ideas of what we can we can say . So I don't I don't I don't understand what what they mean by satisfaction um and for and for example .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Should it be more like um like a status of of the {disfmarker} these meetings in fact .\nUser Interface: {gap} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah well in fact uh we we use a little bit the white board and the digital pen , not that much .\nUser Interface: I dunno I think we had a fair bit of creativity .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh yeah it's really creative .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And uh but I think one thing we m missed out of this whole process was a um {vocalsound} like a focus group with the actual people we're targeting .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: We needed some of these kind of young trendsetters to come in and play with the banana and you know see if they\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: They like that .\nUser Interface: see if they like it .\nProject Manager: Yeah maybe we should go through , yeah an uh evaluation .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Because yeah the evaluation for us is is kind of pointless .\nIndustrial Designer: Biased .\nProject Manager: So maybe you should we should do a kinda evaluation {vocalsound} in the streets like asking to young peoples well , do you like to have a banana as a remote control .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Because it it would also be interesting to uh you to know find out if we have a market in really young children as well , to see you know how to how to market this thing .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: 'Cause you know if {disfmarker} well I mean maybe you don't wanna give all your kids their own remote because they'll be changing the channel all the time but you know maybe in some households where there is you know a T_V_ for each kid , then you know , banana remote control could be fun for them as well .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Might have to draw a face on it . So but I think that's something we need to to work on next time is really finding out more about the target market .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yep . Any any new ideas we could uh we could investigate next time ? Dunno , oranges ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . The cost of the thing can be made more than might be . Because I think it's just the optimal , what we have done for the cost which we are looking forward to .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . I think there are ways we could maybe simplify the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Interface .\nUser Interface: Well just the the the circuit board that we're using inside ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: I'm not sure really how complicated our um\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: our needs are . I mean all we have is two push buttons and two scrollers , do we really need an integrated circuit to\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nUser Interface: you know to process that .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So more general remote control instead of just focusing on uh on T_V_ .\nIndustrial Designer: That's right .\nMarketing: The complexity shouldn't be much higher .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: For {disfmarker} you said if it good for D_V_D_ then I would {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: And also fo you know for mood lighting and and stuff , that would be rather cool . I think that's actually something that should be in version two , is the ability to you know to control things other than the T_V_\nIndustrial Designer: Integrate .\nUser Interface: and not just electronic equipment but you know the whole environment of the room .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Very good . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker} What else ?\nProject Manager: Well done . I think we we can go\n"
    ],
    "length": 10452,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 24,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was mainly about the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils. To start with, Philip Blaker generally introduced the position of Qualification Wales in the education system, focusing on the design of the qualifications and then the delivery of the assessment. Meanwhile, Gareth Pierce talked about the process of making teaching materials available bilingually, both in English and Welsh language. It was suggested that both versions be carried out simultaneously to ensure equity. Concerns were also raised about whether the procedure would delay the availability of the textbooks. What's more, the meeting also discussed the digitalization of materials. The council worried that the lack of digital accessibility and digital literacy would have an impact on pupils' performance. However, it was concluded that the process would widen the access to different materials. The meeting also talked about the timetable of the curriculum reform and the general plan for the future, mainly on the qualification and teaching materials.",
    "docs": [
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's meeting of the\u00a0Children, Young People and Education\u00a0Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, please?\nDarren Millar AM: Yes, I have a declaration of interest, Chair. I understand that my daughter features in one of the videos that is going to be used to contribute evidence to this inquiry. And, in addition, I'm a governor of one of the schools that features in the video.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Darren. So, item 2, then, today is our first session on the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils, which is a video of interviews with young people and teachers. The committee team has been out to take video evidence around Wales, and we're now going to watch the results of that on the screen. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the committee\u00a0would want me to place on record our thanks to the young people and the teachers who took part in that very helpful and informative video. We'll move on now then to our evidence session, and I'm very pleased to welcome Gareth Pierce, chief executive of the WJEC,\u00a0Mike Ebbsworth, assistant director educational support, WJEC,\u00a0Philip Blaker, chief executive of Qualifications Wales, and\u00a0Emyr George, associate director general qualifications\u00a0at Qualifications Wales. So, thank you all of you for attending and thank you for the papers that you provided in advance as well. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions now, and if I can just start by asking you to outline what you see as your role in ensuring that students and teachers in Wales have the resources that they need to pass general qualifications and what you think the role of commercial publishers and Welsh Government is.\n",
      "Philip Blaker: Shall I start? So, Qualifications Wales is the regulator of the awarding bodies, so we regulate awarding bodies. Our powers are structured around the regulating of awarding bodies. We don't regulate commercial publishers nor the provision of textbooks within that. In regulating the awarding body, our primary focus is also on the design of the qualifications and then the delivery of the assessment. So, it's much more around the assessment side\u00a0than teaching resources. That said, when we are going through the design of the qualifications, we go through an approval process, so we develop approval criteria and we ask WJEC\u00a0to submit their specifications against those approval criteria and sample assessment materials as well. So, our focus is very much on making sure that teachers are able, through the sample assessment materials and the specifications, to have a good understanding of what is going to be expected of them in the examinations and of their pupils in the examinations. So, that's setting out the knowledge, skills and understandings\u00a0that will be assessed by WJEC\u00a0when those exams are sat. We have in the past pulled together groups of people to look at issues like resources. So, during the last round of approvals, we pulled together interested parties in Welsh Government, regional consortia and WJEC\u00a0to look at resources that would be available with a view to facilitating the discussion about who would be best placed to fill the gaps where there may be perceived to be gaps in resources. Our other primary role is in maintaining standards.\u00a0So, as the regulator of qualifications, what we want to do is we want to make that the awards of qualifications\u2014so, the grades that people get\u2014are fair.\u00a0One of the things we do is set out the way in which the awarding bodies will set grades\u2014so, the awarding process, the methods that will be used\u2014and then we monitor WJEC's\u00a0award of grades against those processes. During a period of change, we prescribe the use of comparable outcomes as the primary approach, largely because comparable outcomes are designed for circumstances like this, where there's a change in a specification particularly, because there are any number of reasons, including resources, why performance may be different from one year to the next, but comparable outcomes is there to ensure that, all things being equal, if the cohorts have the same ability, the same grade should be awarded from one year to the next. We do recognise that there have been delays in textbooks. Much of that has been related to the timelines that we've all had to deliver new specifications against, which have been far from ideal for everybody involved. We think that particularly our role moving forward will be looking at the timelines for reforms\u00a0that will be necessary for the new curriculum to make sure that this situation isn't repeated and that there is sufficient time in future reforms to allow for greater system readiness. In terms of the roles of others, Welsh Government have a role at the moment in terms of grant funding of translation of materials into Welsh medium. And there is, through the common model at the moment\u2014and this is a model that is common between England and Wales\u2014a reliance on commercial publishers to provide textbooks. Now, that's something that probably needs to be looked at in the future in terms of potential\u00a0different models for how that might be achieved and also, potentially, around a paradigm shift in what's expected of those materials. So, I think that sets out Qualification Wales's position in particular.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Gareth.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Thank you very much. The WJEC does provide what's required in a regulatory sense, and there are two things there\u2014the specification, which tends to be very comprehensive in providing guidance in terms of drawing up a programme of teaching, and also exemplar assessments, which include marking, and those go to the regulator before they are published. So, those samples go to the regulator. The WJEC also do invest a great deal in resources that we produce digitally in both languages simultaneously. Each new course has substantial teaching guidance, which includes a great deal of useful information for teachers and pupils. And we run a professional development programme for teachers that is free of charge when courses are new, and then annually there is some charge for those events. They are face-to-face events, or, increasingly, they are webinars. The WJEC also encourages publishers to take an interest in providing textbooks. We don't have a commercial agreement with publishers. Indeed, the regulations as they stand in Wales, Northern Ireland and England preclude examination bodies from having commercial links with providers of textbooks, but that is something that emerges from the three-nation regime that existed in terms of qualifications. So, that is one point that we noted as something that needs to be considered for Wales as we move forward, whether it would be possible\u2014. As\u00a0we are not talking about examination boards competing with each other in Wales for GCSE and A-levels, in passing, that is something that I would want to suggest may deserve review. We encourage publishers to take an interest. At the moment, these tend to be England-based\u2014Hodder Education and Illuminate Education, for example\u2014and then the Welsh Government does provide funding to the WJEC to support the process of providing Welsh-language versions for those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers' time in Wales?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources? Another interesting question, I think, is\u2014. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in that video\u2014they are available\u00a0in English only.\u00a0Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating? And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate\u00a0if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external\u00a0digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early? Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers' time. But I also think that the use of both languages\u00a0is an interesting\u00a0one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the\u00a0A-level classes? I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way\u00a0of enriching\u00a0the\u00a0teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and\u00a0perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional\u00a0materials, whose role would it be to asses\u00a0this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demand?\nGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important\u2014to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything\u00a0needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and\u00a0the consortia, and ensuring\u00a0then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: But would you\u2014? The question I'm asking is: would you still see that as a core part of your work, although\u00a0it's not necessarily essential in terms of the provision that you're required to provide?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Yes, we invest substantially from the WJEC budget into digital resources. So, through the types of conversations\u00a0that Mike mentioned, in terms of identifying needs, deciding on priorities with\u00a0teachers in individual subject areas, that can provide very useful\u00a0information\u00a0for us in terms of prioritisation. Of course, the digital packages that we create are already based on conversations\u00a0with teachers.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: So, it's already happening to a certain extent.\nGareth Pierce: Well, yes, but we could always go a step further.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: And do we need further resources for that?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Well, it's an interesting\u00a0question. The WJEC is doing as much as we can\u2014\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Why isn't it happening to the extent that it needs to happen, then?\nGareth Pierce: One can always do more, of course. The WJEC is trying to use its budget prudently, and most of our funding comes from payments made by schools and\u00a0colleges in terms of taking assessments. So, we do have a budget, but it's not a bottomless pit. So, we do need to make choices within the substantial budget we have in terms of the work that Mike is undertaking.\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: There is a need to be careful as well in identifying resources and needs, and that those are suited towards the requirements. Quite often a teacher\u2014and I've been a teacher myself\u2014has this idea that there is a need to have everything. But, certainly, that's not always the case. Quite often, the focus is on different things. There has been a move towards different means of assessment over recent years, and we've moved our resources towards that to meet the needs of teachers on how to undertake\u00a0that sort of assessment.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Did you want to come in on any of this?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: I'm just going to say one thing. Teachers will want to be creative in the use of resources, and, in doing that, they'll potentially want to adapt resources from either language. I think one of the things that we would be quite keen to try and establish moving forward is what is the common core that should by default be available bilingually, and then what sits around that that would be for schools to use creatively and adapt. And what I wouldn't want to see is a default\u00a0position where all materials were bilingual\u2014a wide range of resources that might be created from all sorts of diverse, different channels\u2014because\u00a0that may inhibit the creation of some of those materials that may be more creative, which could then be used by teachers as they see appropriate. But I think it is reasonable to\u00a0expect for that core, common body\u00a0of knowledge\u00a0to be available bilingually by default, and for teachers not to have to spend time translating that.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. A final question\u00a0from me, then. The \u00a3500,000 funding for Welsh-medium educational resource that's in the budget for 2018-19\u2014are you able to share any information\u00a0with the committee as to how that's going to be spent?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Tthe WJEC has some information in terms of that budget. It is a Welsh Government budget, and they have annual discussions with us as to what resources we are likely to be working on along with publishers, and where we would like to make a claim against that grant to pay for the editorial and translation costs that we will have incurred. Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the \u00a3500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, Mike?\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.\nLynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it? It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned\u2014both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they need to learn, and swot up on, in advance of exams?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I think that the evidence is that different learners see their requirements differently. And I agree that a textbook is part of the picture that should be available. But I think the evidence also shows that not every young person will use them; perhaps the teacher uses them. There is an emphasis, for example, from one pupil there, on that traditional model of revision, namely class notes and his own revision notes, but that he personally also wanted a textbook. So, certainly, the content of a textbook is going to be important, and that that's available in some form or other. It was very interesting to know, for example, that when he was describing the traditional model of revision, he felt that he'd had quite a lot of the content of the textbook through the classroom notes. Much of that digital content, of course, corresponds to the content areas of a textbook, but it's just in a different form. But, in general, there should be a textbook. And some of our frustration as well is that the timetables of some individual publishers don't always get us to the point where there is a textbook available in time. That doesn't happen so often in English medium, but we know about that gap in time in the Welsh provision.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: Well, it's happened fairly regularly in the English-medium textbook world, hasn't it? My daughter\u2014she featured in that video\u2014has got her RS qualifications coming up, and she only had a textbook over the Easter period. I mean, it's\u00a0completely unacceptable. And many others in that video are also being affected. You mentioned digital resources; not everybody's got access to digital resources in their own homes, even, in Wales. So, aren't we giving a significant disadvantage to those learners who might need the traditional 'swotting up\u00a0from a textbook' method\u00a0of revision and benefit from that?\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: We do ensure that those digital resources include things that the teachers can also print. Most of these are resources for teachers so that the teachers can\u00a0adapt them for their own use, to suit the learners who are in front of them at any given time. But\u00a0certainly there are materials there. If there are activities, then those\u00a0activities can be printed off and handed to pupils so that they can take them home. So, I would be\u00a0sceptical about that comment. We are thinking of the totality, ultimately.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I think you're right that the\u00a0availability of technology is an\u00a0important part of this big picture. The young\u00a0people talk about websites and blogs, and we're talking about digital resources, so being able to reach those resources, I think, is vital in Wales.\u00a0It's interesting to note two contradictory remarks from the teaching\u00a0associations in the letters. One\u00a0praises what's available digitally, whereas another teaching\u00a0organisation sees this as more\u00a0work for teachers. As Mike said, we've\u00a0created those resources that can be adapted. One\u00a0teaching organisation says that it\u00a0just creates more work, while another\u00a0organisation says that the digital resource is something that's\u00a0very valuable. Of course, the headteacher at the end was praising the fact that, in a\u00a0situation of\u00a0crisis or\u00a0unacceptable timetables, we have succeeded in\u00a0creating some\u00a0resources that\u00a0will be in the textbook later, but\u00a0available digitally at an early stage. But I agree with your core comment that technology is vital, and access to that, and also the content of a textbook in some form is\u00a0vital as well.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: Mr Blaker, you would agree that a textbook should be an essential core piece of the resource pack available for each qualification.\n",
      "Philip Blaker: I think we wouldn't want to underplay the desirability of textbooks, recognising that different learners have different learning styles and may look to different resources. I think what I'd like to raise is a wider concern about textbooks in their current model, which is very much around the fact that\u00a0every time there's a change in a specification, there's a new textbook, which is designed around that specification and is endorsed by an awarding body, which is a nice model for a publisher, because every time there's a change, there's an opportunity for a new textbook. There are two concerns that I'd like to raise on that. First, the focus on teaching and learning. Ofsted and also Estyn have raised concerns about the focus in teaching on teaching to the test as a common concern in both nations. I have a concern that having a textbook that is endorsed by the awarding body and is designed specifically around that specification may lead to some of that tendency. And also, there's the sustainability of the model. We know that we're about to go into another round of reforms associated with the curriculum change. That's going to lead to another round of textbooks that may need to be focused on qualifications. I think I'd much rather see that textbooks are seen as a curriculum resource that are broader than, perhaps, the model of endorsement and the current model of publication suggest.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, you don't think that a textbook for each subject should be a core resource for pupils who are learning in advance of examinations.\n",
      "Emyr George: I'd just like to pick you up on that. I think a textbook for each subject is absolutely an essential part of the broad range of resources that you'd want to see available for people to choose what they prefer, but on a subject, perhaps, rather than a specific specification, because I think there's a tendency to conflate the two, and much of the underlying content that is assessed in one specification, or a new updated specification, will remain unchanged. It is true that there may be a different focus or emphasis, or a different style of questioning, but that can be picked up more nimbly through supplementary digital resources, for example,\u00a0which can highlight that change, particularly to a teacher, so that they can shape their lesson planning around that. What we are looking at here are reformed GCSEs and\u00a0reformed A-levels in subjects that are well-established, traditional subjects, and so whilst it is not necessarily the ideal, I think it's\u00a0important to remember\u00a0that there is already a good deal of pre-existing resources, including textbooks, out there in schools already. We're not for a moment saying that that is the situation that we would want everybody\u00a0to be in. I think it might be preferable\u00a0if the textbook was perfectly bespoke to the course and didn't contain any extraneous\u00a0material, but that perhaps is an ideal picture and I think we do need to remember that there are already many resources out there that are available to teachers and to students.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: But of course, unlike their peers in perhaps other parts of the UK, we have teachers who are having to go meticulously\u00a0through some of these other resources that might be available to determine whether\u00a0they're appropriate for use in the classroom, given that the specification\u00a0is different in terms of the new qualifications. Can I just ask you about the disadvantage that some learners\u00a0might face as a result of the lack of textbooks? Mr Blaker, I note that you sought to reassure the committee in some of your opening remarks about the fact that equivalent outcomes are what you aim to achieve in discussion with the WJEC in terms of the outcome of assessments, and I think that that's a very positive thing. But, how do you differentiate between the different learning styles of individual students who are in that cohort to ensure that the disadvantage that one faces because\u00a0they're somebody who relies particularly\u00a0heavily on textbook-type learning, traditional\u00a0sort of swotting up for examinations, versus someone who is much more digitally aware and able to use digital resources\u2014? How do you make sure that it's fair to the cohort as a whole, while still enabling some of these individuals\u00a0for whom textbooks are important not to face disadvantage within that cohort?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: The systems that are in place are very much around making sure that awarding is fair across the whole cohort. It's very difficult\u2014in fact, it would be impossible\u2014to unpick all of the different factors that might affect performance, because\u00a0you could well have a textbook that's been available\u00a0for some time, it may be somebody's preferred leaning style to use a textbook, but did they use that textbook effectively? You know, did they open it in revision or did they not open it in revision? So, there are so many different factors that can affect individual\u00a0performance. I think it's impossible to unpick a particular aspect like the availability of resources. Motivation would be one thing, an individual\u00a0learner's motivation in the subject. The biggest input would be the quality of teaching. I think evidence has been provided to you by the regional\u00a0consortia, which we saw\u00a0yesterday. They particularly wanted to stress this point I think; that the quality of teaching is\u00a0probably the most dominant and the most important factor in relation to a learner's ultimate performance\u00a0in the examination.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: I understand that, but you also understand that someone who doesn't have the resources that they feel are best suited to them face some element of a greater disadvantage\u00a0than others for whom, perhaps, textbooks are less important.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I think also, perhaps, related to that, it is important to mention digital literacy here. Every young person in Wales, I would hope, taking GCSE or A-level, should have that digital literacy in order to source\u00a0the valuable materials available\u2014that they should have those skills. Then, they have the choice whether they go down the digital route, or do they do as Mike suggested\u2014much of the digital material can be printed\u2014or do they then turn to textbooks, in the hope that those would be available? That would then allow for a pupil's personal learning choice to be reflected. It's also important for teachers to confirm that their ways of teaching do support these alternative approaches taken by pupils. Not every pupil will choose to learn or revise in exactly the same way. So, the flexibility for the pupil is very important, I think.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: I understand that, but I've got people in my constituency who haven't even got a broadband link at home, so there's a digital disadvantage as well. Can I just ask you about the reason why this has taking so long to sort out? It was back in 2015 that concerns were first raised\u00a0about the availability\u00a0of textbooks in both English and Welsh for the new qualifications. We're three years\u00a0on, what on earth has been happening in the interim and why is it taking so long? If you've got these resources digitally, why can't they just be compounded into textbooks pretty straightforwardly?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I think the main reason for that is that there are three series of reforms of qualifications that have happened. There were some in 2015, other subjects in 2016, and other subjects in 2017. Those three cycles of reform have all suffered from the short timetable\u00a0that was between approving a qualification and publishers being able to start the work. Perhaps an interesting comparison would be a subject being taught for the first time in 2015\u2014where that subject has reached now in terms of resources. I would hope that each one of those subjects have more available now in terms of resources, and therefore we are adding each year\u2014not textbooks but digital resources. There are more past papers available, of course. We are working on sample work at the request of teachers. So, every subject is moving on over a period of time of five to six years while that specification is being studied. But those same difficulties have, unfortunately, affected 2015 subjects and 2017 subjects, and that's why we're discussing the same thing in 2018.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, it's the scale of the challenge and the volume of the work?\nGareth Pierce: Yes.\n",
      "Philip Blaker: I think Gareth, in the evidence that he has provided to the committee previously, has said about the timeline, the schedule, for reforms. Now, that's a schedule that we inherited and was largely dominated by the schedule for reforms in England. Now that we've reached a point of divergence in GCSEs and A-levels, between England and Wales, it gives us much more agency in the future to establish a timeline that doesn't place the pressures on the system. So, Gareth has quite\u00a0rightly pointed out that there are three waves of reforms, but the pressures that build up in the first wave are consequential onto the next wave and the wave after that. So, the whole system\u00a0has been pressured both from a regulatory perspective of the approval process, the awarding body preparing its submissions to use, and then system readiness\u00a0thereafter.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: That timeline was obviously set by the Welsh Government. I assume that advice was given by WJEC and Qualifications Wales and your predecessor organisation to the Welsh Government\u00a0at that time protesting about the timescale\u00a0that you were being expected to abide\u00a0by.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Yes, and similarly in England, the examination boards working in England would have provided the same advice to the Government there. And, of course, the Welsh Government programme was associated with the reform programme in England, in particularly for those A-level subjects, where there was a strong influence from the universities across the UK in terms of what they wanted to see differently in the A-level subjects. So, England and Wales have run on a very short timetable common to both countries, and I would say that every exam board and every publisher has seen this very challenging in Wales and England. But our advice is that there is a real need for between 18 months and two years from completing a specification that has been approved, then being able to work with teachers on what their needs and requirements will be, thinking about what the teaching programme will be, and then starting to work with publishers and get resources available\u2014ideally, with a year of preparation then for the teacher before they start teaching. So, as they will know what resources will be available, we'll be able to discuss the use of those resources in our professional development programmes, and then that timeline is convenient for everybody.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Darren, I've got to bring Llyr in now.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Estyn, NAHT, UCAC, NASUWT, WJEC and Qualifications Wales have pointed to the way in which the Government has managed the reforms that have been happening over the past few years as one of the things that has led to some of these difficulties. You mentioned the fact that they come wave upon wave. Well, what about the tsunami of curriculum reform that we're currently facing? That is, how confident can we be that the situation won't deteriorate as the new curriculum is introduced\u2014rather than improve?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: That is a very key question, isn't it? We have started to discuss this, specifically in particular in a forum that includes publishers in Wales, with the Welsh Government around the table and Qualifications Wales around the table. I think one of the very interesting questions and important questions is: what will\u00a0the nature of the information available in April 2019 be\u00a0in terms of the new curriculum? At what level of detail will it be? To what extent will it be adapted again after April 2019? Is it detailed enough, really, for teachers to start discussing their programmes of teaching, and that we then still have a role with publishers, even though this is for this curriculum and not for qualifications? WJEC has a tradition of publishing resources over the key stages and other key stages as well. I think there is a need to discuss the implications of the timetable as it starts to appear, because there is a need to start teaching the new curriculum in September 2022. If we're talking about a year of preparation, that brings us back to September 2021. If we're talking about working on resources available for that preparation year, we're talking about September 2020. So, the timetable does appear already tight, particularly if there's something that's not quite certain about that curriculum statement in 2019, and that there is a lot of work to turn that into teaching programmes. So, I think it is a key question, and I can't be confident at the moment that this is going to work.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Did you want to come in, Philip?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: I think one of the big differences is it's a tsunami we can see coming. So, young people will be assessed for the first time, assuming linear exams, in the summer 2027, which is some way away, and, actually, given the reform process historically, this is probably the most foresight\u00a0we've seen of a big change like this. There is a big dependency on the curriculum and the curriculum being described in such a way that we can relate qualifications to that curriculum, because qualifications should relate to the curriculum rather than drive the curriculum, so we do need to see something coming out of that. I think, for us, once we've seen the curriculum, and we've got better sight of it, we'll be able to plan things out. We've already started engagement with awarding bodies over the possible supply chain for these new qualifications, and, ultimately, there'll be a go/no-go decision that would need to be made, probably in 2023, which would be that if the conditions don't appear right for safe implementation, then we would make a recommendation to Welsh Government that these reforms are delayed in terms of the qualification, not in terms of the curriculum, for a year to allow the system to be able to catch up. So, we're starting to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case? We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue\u2014clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of\u00a0timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developing?\nGareth Pierce: Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret\u00a0these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because\u00a0there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not\u2014I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.\nGareth Pierce: Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it? We must have the authors\u2014\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.\nGareth Pierce: Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually? Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element\u00a0of public subsidy?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could\u00a0rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum? And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things\u00a0that supports education in Wales.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your view?\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily\u2014pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you\u2019re telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it\u2019s already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbook?\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in the process of being developed. Naturally, if something is late in English, then that timetable would be affected in terms of\u00a0a decision that\u00a0will ultimately have to be taken. But that's the hope: that when new textbooks are produced in English and authored in English, we would look at that eight-week period as a turnaround.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: I understand the point that you made earlier about the chapter-by-chapter approach, which seems much more equitable. But to suggest that you will delay books that could be available for students and could be available for teachers to be able to access by two months because you haven't got the systems in place to be able to produce them on the same day, seems to be wholly inappropriate. Can I ask, also, why on earth it isn't possible to produce Welsh-medium textbooks first and then translate them to English on occasions?\nMike Ebbsworth: We're entirely open to that and to that sort of model.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, why has that never ever been done?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Well, of course, it would happen with subjects that stem from Wales, but I think the problem is that we work with publishers and those publishers and their authors, therefore, tend to work through the medium of English. But, just to be clear, this idea of delaying an English version is something that the Welsh Government is eager for us to experiment with, but not with textbooks that are already late. They are within the new programme of textbooks that are contained within the grant that you mentioned of \u00a3500,000. So, in a way, this is an experiment and the Welsh Government wants to look at this as one way of responding to the complaint that there are different timetables available.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, you're being forced to do this by the Welsh Government, rather than\u2014\nGareth Pierce: Well, we've agreed to do it in discussion with them.\nDarren Millar AM: So, are you happy with that approach?\nGareth Pierce: Well, as long as the textbook isn't late in the first place, then yes; it's worth trying. There is a challenge on the eight weeks, there is a challenge in the publisher sticking to the timetable in terms of the English version first of all, but we are willing to use this as a test bed, and we're working on two specific textbooks on this.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: I think the committee is struggling with this idea, so what do you understand to be the rationale behind that, then? Is it that both sets of pupils should be equally disadvantaged?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Well, no, in a way, it uses the same principle as we have regarding our use of digital resources. With the digital materials, the intention is that things are available\u00a0in time and that they're available in both languages at the same time. So, trying to imitate that with printed text is what we're trying to do, but not with texts that are already late. So, if these books keep to the timetable, then they will be available in time in both languages, but that the English version has stayed before going out on the shelves.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, that's to say that the English version will be completed eight weeks beforehand so that you have eight weeks for translation.\n",
      "Mike Ebbsworth: Well, ultimately, I may have used the wrong words in saying that we're holding the English back. The English version would still be in the process, just as the Welsh version would be, and then they would catch up as they approach the date for publication and printing. There is an element of editing the English as well as the Welsh and that would happen in that\u00a0eight-week period. So, a draft\u00a0form might be available, and we do ensure that our draft versions are available on our secure website as soon as possible, but then that has to be held up before publication.\nLynne Neagle AM: Thank you. John.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Just on that, Chair, it's nonetheless the case, as we've heard, I think, and as the letter to the committee from Kirsty Williams has made clear, that there might be a situation where the English-language version of a textbook could be made available, but it isn't made available because there isn't a Welsh-language version. And, as the\u00a0Chair said, is that\u00a0about putting those students in Wales on the same footing, and if so, how does that\u00a0relate to the\u00a0fact that\u00a0these students, including those who could have had earlier access to the English-language version, are competing with students over the border, as we heard on the video earlier, for those precious university places? Doesn't it place the English-language student using the English-language version at a potential disadvantage, compared to students over the border?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I think this is a point for Qualifications Wales to a certain extent, but applicants for qualifications in Wales are assessed as a national cohort, if truth be told, so, each piece of information we have on the standards is evaluated for that national cohort. The standards stem from the three-nation system. So, in discussion with Qualifications Wales, we ensure that there is no disadvantage to any cohort in Wales in any subject, be that because of a textbook being unavailable or for any other reason.\n",
      "Philip Blaker: Certainly, from a comparable outcomes perspective, the fewer differences that there are that are differential\u2014. So, the idea of textbooks being available in English and Welsh at different times could potentially create another dimension in terms of disparity. So, if we're looking at it strictly speaking from a comparable outcomes perspective, it makes the awarding easier if everybody's on a common playing field. It's worth remembering\u2014we provided some evidence in our original letter particularly looking at religious studies on the basis that religious studies was a subject that had been mentioned. This subject has already been awarded at AS-level last year, so it has gone through an award and will go through the full A-level award this year. The comparable outcomes approach did protect those learners last year, in the absence of a textbook, and we saw stability in the results that came out of the cohort level. Similarly, with other subjects that have gone through reforms, we've seen it with the GCSEs that were awarded last year, ASs that were awarded last year and A-levels\u00a0that were awarded last year: we saw good comparability year on year.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Go on then, Darren. Is that okay, John?\nDarren Millar AM: Just a very brief follow-up on that, at the cohort level, yes, you suggest that there is some evidence that students were protected, but what you don't know and can't tell, because you're not able to drill down to the individual student level, is whether children, young people, were disadvantaged as a result of their learning style being more textbook orientated than that of their peers.\nPhilip Blaker: I guess we're in a situation where there's no evidence either way that that\u2014\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: The absence of evidence doesn't mean that it didn't happen.\nPhilip Blaker: No, but there is no evidence to suggest that. We have no positive evidence to suggest that.\nDarren Millar AM: Well, I think you've seen plenty of evidence about the stress that it's causing, and the concern that learners have about their outcomes. I think it would be very interesting, actually, to take some teacher assessments and expected grades and compare those to the actual grade outcomes. Is that something that Qualifications Wales could do on a sample basis?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: Historically, that sort of evidence has been very unreliable. Gareth would probably have a stronger view on that than me. Predicted grades used to be provided. Certainly, back in my day at an awarding body they were provided, and there tended to be a very low correlation between the predicted grade and the actual achieved grade. I don't know if you've got anything on that, Gareth.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: No, we agree with you that the comparisons are not that reliable, because there are so many factors. But I think, at the end of the day, what we see is, yes, I agree there is evidence of stress, but I think there's also evidence of young people and their teachers really using the available resources and the available skills in approaching revision and preparation, and tending to do that very well. That's the evidence that we've got, for example, in the AS religious studies last year, that the cohort did extremely well in fact. We can't disagree that there's evidence of stress, but I think we can also point towards resilience and excellent approaches to drawing together the various sources that they've got: classroom notes, revision notes, as they mentioned, and the various other materials that they referred to.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. John.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Coming back to the effect of the lack of resources, we heard on the video, as you've just mentioned, Gareth, that pupils were experiencing a lot of stress and anxiety, and it affected their well-being in terms of their perception that they might be disadvantaged by the lack of resources, as we discussed. We know exam time is very, very stressful\u2014I'm sure all of us would agree with that\u2014in general, without any additional problems or perceptions of problems. So, with that sort of background, would you accept then that some students have been negatively affected by the lack of suitable support materials for general qualifications? I know we've discussed this in terms of it being difficult, perhaps, to show cause and effect, but I think most people watching that video would clearly come to the view that some students have been negatively impacted. Would you accept that?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I'd have to agree. There is evidence of their concern, isn't there? But as Philip said, what we don't have is evidence that that anxiety then has an impact on their attainment, because there are so many factors, there are so many different kinds of resources that they've referred to\u2014even those who want to see textbooks, they're also talking about so many other materials that are available to them. Of course, it's also clear that they are conscientious young people who have worked hard, so you have a picture there of young people who are concerned, yes, and as you've said, examinations are a stressful time in general, but they are also young people who are doing their level best, and usually do get the results that they have worked for. That's the evidence that we have: the results tend to be achieved.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Coming back again to matters that we've already discussed, but just to put to you in a fairly focused way, would you accept that it isn't fair that some pupils are not having the support material that others are having, depending on whether their particular subject is involved and the language that they're studying through? Would you accept that that is a basic unfairness in the system as it currently exists?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Ideally, resources, digital accessibility and digital literacy should be available for every pupil on an equal basis. But I think perhaps if we analysed this in much detail, different individuals would be able to say, 'There are different types of unfairness.' You referred earlier to the digital inequalities. Is there an economic inequality? There is some evidence from the teaching unions that suggests that not every school is in the same situation as each other in terms of buying the resources that are available. So, I think your question drives at a very important point: what sort of inequality could be having an impact on young people in terms of their achievement during their school time? Ideally, each one of those elements of potential inequality should be levelled. So, I don't think I can go any further than acknowledging that any inequality is unfair, but there are so many different kinds and the textbook is not the only one, and therefore we're not going to be able to analyse the impact of that on its own.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Could I put to you, finally then, what Estyn have said about reported delays in the production and distribution of educational resources such as textbooks, marking criteria and specimen papers, that that delay has impeded the ability of teachers to plan adequately, and that this effect on their ability to plan adequately is very likely to have had an impact on pupils' achievement? Would you accept that?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: It's interesting\u2014they link three quite different things there, don't they? We've discussed the textbooks in some detail. When they refer to sample assessments, we have to provide those within the regulatory time frame, and they have to be approved. So, in every subject there are sample assessments and marking schemes, and they are statutorily available, in a way. When they talk about exemplars, there are different interpretations of that. One request that we receive often from schools is for exemplars in terms of the work of pupils that has been assessed and marked by us. Of course, they're not available until the young people have taken those exams for the very first time. We can make them available digitally, and through various other methods. But in some subjects the demand has been so strong that we have worked with schools in order to ensure that work is produced by pupils before that first examination, is marked by us, and is then made available. So, we can respond to that demand when it arises. I would like to have a conversation with Estyn, indeed, to interpret on a more detailed level some of the things that they refer to.\n",
      "Emyr George: May I offer a comment on that quote from Estyn? They talk about a reduction in attainment and that, to some extent, brings us back to the point in terms of the comparable outcomes method that we're talking about. That method is based on research and evidence that says that in a period of change to an exam or qualification, we know that performance in an exam can fall, and that is due to a number\u00a0of different factors. Teachers aren't as familiar with the specification and the requirements of the exam. There are fewer past assessment resources available; there aren't any past papers, for example. Certainly, knowing that you're the first to sit that exam perhaps raises your concerns about that examination, and examinations are a matter of concern already. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to differentiate between those factors, but what we know on the whole is that they come together to have an impact on pupils' performance in an exam, and that's why, when it comes to awarding qualifications for the first time and looking at the grades, we look very carefully at what that the mark means in terms of the grade in order to try as best as we can, on the level of the whole national cohort, to eliminate as much unfairness as possible because they are the first cohort to sit the exam.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Could I just make a brief comment on the sample assessments? Now, interestingly, when the English, Welsh, maths, and maths and numeracy GCSEs were new, the Welsh Government were very eager that we invest in more sample assessment materials. We had to produce one for the regulator, but they wanted to see us produce far more, and we did that. But there are risks inherent in that, too. If we create more and more sample assessments, then does that create more risk of teaching to the test? And every time we produce one of these, of course, we are using robust assessment ideas, and they're out there to be used for test purposes. So, we need to be careful that we don't weaken\u00a0the real assessment by providing too many of the examiners' good ideas in the sample material. So, it's an interesting theme, but it would be interesting\u00a0to have a further conversation with Estyn on that.\n",
      "Philip Blaker: I just wanted to say, looking towards\u2014. Reforms always throw up issues like this. It's almost an inevitability of any change that there will be impact. I think what we need to do is we need to think about the future reforms, particularly knowing that we've got some on the radar already, and to think about what this paradigm is and how we can isolate some of these factors in the future. So, if we look at resources and if we look particularly at textbooks as being a curriculum resource, rather than a qualification resource, I think we can change the timeline to which some of those materials are produced. So, going back to when I studied my A-levels in the 1980s, there was this common body of knowledge that was an A-level textbook in biology that wasn't focused around an individual awarding body. When we talked to unions about this on Monday, they said, 'Yes, when we used to teach many years ago, there were curriculum resources like that, and then when a particular topic or a particular area of content dropped out of the qualification, we either did or didn't teach it according to whether it was in the curriculum'. That's a little bit worrying by virtue of the fact there might have been a component of that subject that didn't get taught because it was no longer in the text, despite the fact that it was in the common body of knowledge. But I think if we can shift this paradigm\u2014and I would really like to a shift in the paradigm for resources particularly, away from the focus on the qualification and into more of a focus on the curriculum\u2014then that provides an opportunity for, I would suggest, a much healthier model in the future. There are various ways of doing that. In the United States, for example, there are some states within the United States that produce a state textbook. Now, that can have issues, particularly if it's politically orientated\u2014so, if politicians are seen to have a strong influence in the content that's taught. But\u00a0if there is independence in that state model, then I think that can be quite strong model. Equally, if you look at somewhere like Hong Kong, they've actually tried to de-emphasise textbooks. So, Hong Kong, which is a very high-performing jurisdiction, is trying to move away from that model in the future.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Could I just add very, very briefly\u2014\nLynne Neagle AM: Very briefly, because I want to bring Hefin in.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: I know that, in our letter to you, we emphasised that this is not just to do with the body of knowledge.\u00a0The assessment objectives have shifted in many subjects towards analysis and evaluation. So, therefore, we really do need resources that support that way of working, and I'm sure that lots of the young people we've heard from\u2014what they're really doing in\u00a0their revision is actually not just studying the content, but thinking about how they respond analytically and evaluatively.\u00a0In fact, an interesting question for us as an awarding body to debate with the qualifications regulator, maybe, is whether some of the content should actually be able to be taken into the assessment hall.\u00a0Do young people need to remember all these terms and their precise definitions, sometimes in both languages if they've learnt it in that way? Shouldn't some of the reference material be more and more available in the assessment arena? And then you are really getting towards analysis and interpretation and evaluation.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Hefin.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: I want to welcome these particular comments, because having come from a higher education background, what I've tried to deliver in my courses are\u00a0textbook-free modules, where you're relying on academic journal articles and you're piecing together the story yourself, based on the curriculum you develop yourself. So, curriculum-focused resources are very welcome. I fear that students who are nurtured on a textbook diet,\u00a0when they go to university, they are not expected to repeat what's in the textbook;\u00a0they're expected to do exactly as Gareth says and analyse and combine information into a discursive argument. So, therefore, I'm interested to know how you've worked with higher education to develop that approach. I also welcome what you've just said too.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Can I ask for brief answers, please?\nGareth Pierce: Yes, well some of the people who provide\u00a0ideas into our digital resources certainly are either teachers who are very well aware of that progression to HE and therefore what their learners want or, in some cases, they are HE\u00a0people themselves. We do draw on a body of expertise, and we are more than willing to emphasise the importance of that approach to the support resources we provide.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: I think the difficulty and the difference is that, at HE\u00a0level, the kind of journal articles that are available are probably not consumable at GCSE level. That's part of the problem you have with that approach.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Yes. And I think, interestingly\u2014I know we've pointed towards some of our\u00a0religious studies\u00a0resources as examples\u2014I think some of the websites\u00a0we point to are quite ambitious. They would be described as scholarly, and I think some of the young people on the video made that point, didn't they\u2014that they need to engage with that material to understand some themes? But we need to assist them in doing so. We need to almost make those scholarly items that are worth including in their curriculum accessible and user friendly for them at their point of learning.\nLynne Neagle AM: Philip.\n",
      "Philip Blaker: It was just one point. We recently published a report on the Welsh baccalaureate and skills challenge certificate, and I think it's relevant to pull in at this point that the independent study that pupils would be expected to do through the skills challenge certificate in doing their project work is really designed to try and draw out some of those skills that would be relevant in higher education.\u00a0Through the reforms that we are starting to think about for the skills challenge certificate, there's a real opportunity to start honing some of those skills, particularly at the advanced level bacc,\u00a0to make people really HE-ready so that they're better able to engage with that different style of learning. So, I think there's a huge opportunity that shouldn't be diminished within the advanced Welsh bacc.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Last questions from Mark then.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Gareth, can I just put to you\u2014? On the Estyn criticism, I think you've answered one aspect of their criticism that WJEC\u00a0did not make as many sample assessment materials available as schools would have liked early on in the reform process, and I understand your position there,\u00a0but they went on and said, 'At times the sample assessment materials were provided\u00a0with incorrect mark schemes' and also, 'It would be\u00a0helpful if the WJEC\u00a0ensure that all necessary resources were made available before the start date of each qualification.' Do you have a response to those points?\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Again, probably, I'd like a conversation with them about any problems with the specimen assessments and their mark schemes, because if they are the statutory regulatory ones they would have gone through Philip's team as well or his Welsh Government predecessors as regulators, depending on which qualifications they were. Obviously, we need to be spot-on with those. Very occasionally,\u00a0somebody will identify an error, and obviously we then correct them, because\u00a0these are available digitally online. So, if there is a problem, we want to hear about it and then we can correct it. But, yes, I agree with their fundamental premise, that ideally the whole package of resources should be available before teaching starts, including, as we mentioned earlier, so we can draw on that set of resources in the events we run as WJEC free of charge for teachers leading up to the first teaching. We need that information ourselves as well so we can talk about the use of these\u00a0valuable resources in an appropriate pedagogical context in that preparatory year. So, the ideal is that everything is there 12 months ahead.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: So, what mechanism do you have for picking up on this type of criticisms from Estyn and having that conversation with them? Has that not happened?\nGareth Pierce: We have met with Estyn a couple of times recently, actually\u2014once when they were beginning their review of the key stage 4 qualifications\u00a0that had been in place for two years\u00a0and a bit, and also when they were planning a review of some of the A-level work. Because\u00a0we do have regular meetings with them, we will have an opportunity to explore their comments here I'm sure.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Looking at the structure and the relationship between Qualifications\u00a0Wales and the WJEC\u2014. I understand in the model in England\u2014you've got Ofqual, the regulator, and you have various\u00a0competing\u00a0exam boards, some I think with for-profit motivation. We don't have\u00a0that in Wales; there is a sole regulator and a single, dominant examination board. Does that mean that there's significant overlap and potentially cost duplication between the work of the two bodies, particularly\u00a0given WJEC is a charity and seems to have many of the same objectives as you in Qualifications Wales have?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: The roles are very distinct, so I'd tell you there's\u00a0no overlap. What we try and do is try and make sure that there's a good connection between the work that we do. WJEC has very clear responsibilities\u00a0around the delivery of qualifications. We have a role in monitoring to ensure that those qualifications are delivered securely and fairly. I would say a strength of the Welsh\u00a0model is that there is an independent regulator and a single awarding body largely, because\u00a0much of the work that Ofqual would need to do in terms of its maintenance of standards is about ensuring that the competition between awarding bodies doesn't lead to what's been termed in the past as a race to the bottom in terms of standards. Now, the opportunity that we have in Wales is, where we have a single awarding body, we can have a close and good working relationship\u00a0with WJEC, but guarding\u00a0very strongly to make sure that we keep that regulatory distance to make sure that we preserve our role as the regulator and look at WJEC as one of our regulated bodies.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Can I make a general point? Perhaps the important opportunity in Wales is to look anew at how national and regional organisations, such as the consortia, can collaborate to make a success of the broad range of resources and CPD that will be required to support the new curriculum, and also the next set of qualifications that will be reformed. We've referred to many organisations today, but there are others. The Welsh Books Council, for example, is part of this discussion. The Learned Society of Wales is a player that wants to introduce ideas into the Welsh dimension of the curriculum. There was mention of the HE sector earlier. Teachers' associations have very specific comments to make on some of these areas. There is a great opportunity for us to come together and to have a national approach. There will be a need for some financial resource from the Welsh Government\u2014yes, certainly\u2014and the WJEC can provide some resources, but I think we all want to collaborate in order to ensure the success of the next round of resources.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: But doesn't that national approach and collaboration preclude the model that Philip was talking about\u00a0earlier, where we had textbooks based on the curriculum, and there's that core, but that was separate from what the exam body decided to do and the textbook wasn't there for the particular exam approach? If you have a single, dominant exam board, and you have a Welsh curriculum that's developed with that board, how do you then have this separation\u00a0between textbook and exam?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: So, if we look at qualification, a qualification should be based on the curriculum that's being offered, because learning should be based around the curriculum, and the role of the qualification is to measure attainment against knowledge of that curriculum\u2014knowledge, skills and understanding, the dispositions that that curriculum is trying to develop. So, I think there are two very distinct things. Now, of course, what will inevitably happen is once the curriculum is known and developed, there will be a level of detail that comes across from what the qualification is looking for. I think what we're trying to say is, from an educational perspective, what we'd like to see is a broader focus on the curriculum and less of a narrow focus on the qualification and some of the problems that that can drive, so that, if a learner is well-versed in the curriculum and has been taught well and has acquired the knowledge, skills and dispositions that the curriculum is trying to create, they should succeed in the qualification.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: And you suggested earlier that, if need be, the qualification could be pushed back a year, but not the curriculum. Does that mean that it would be possible to teach the new curriculum while keeping the old qualification?\nPhilip Blaker: It would be possible.\nMark Reckless AM: But satisfactory?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: Because, if we're looking at qualifications predominantly being 14 to 16, what Professor Donaldson said at the very beginning, with 'Successful Futures', was, actually, if the curriculum is preparing people better for that qualification stage, so that they're better versed as learners and better able to perform in those qualifications and we see a rise of attainment\u2014. Ideally,\u00a0you'd be in a position where you've got GCSEs that have been reformed to marry up to any change, but I don't see there being a huge problem in itself of a delay if we think that is the right thing to do. Clearly, we consider that to be a sub-optimal thing. We would much rather be in a position of having reforms, but, equally, I'd want to see any reforms delivered safely, and I wouldn't want to compromise fairness and safety of delivery of those qualifications on the basis of a timeline. But I think all too often the case is that a timeline dominates over doing what is the right thing and I think as we get further into this we'll have to really assess and keep a grip of what's the right thing to do.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Thank you.\nLynne Neagle AM: Very briefly, Darren.\nDarren Millar AM: Just on this issue of shaping the curriculum and making sure that we've got textbooks that can be used to support the delivery of the curriculum\u2014. So, obviously, the WJEC's interested in the examinations and the qualifications. That's your role as well in terms of Qualifications Wales. So, who should be responsible for developing these curriculum resources?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: I think, for a new model, that needs to be determined. Welsh Government has a role in curriculum at the moment. They have responsibility for curriclum and they've already started work with the seminar last year, and then drawing people together now to look at a new model for the future. I think we need to evolve that approach, and I think Welsh Government taking a lead on some of this thinking about how things might be prepared for the future is probably a good position to be in at the moment.\nDarren Millar AM: Are there any other models that you can point us to in terms of how these things are done elsewhere?\n",
      "Philip Blaker: Yes, there are models where you can have\u2014. For example, in Northern Ireland, you have the regulator, the awarding body and the curriculum body all under one roof. So, you can have a position where everything is tied together as it is in Northern Ireland with the\u00a0Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment. Equally, if you look at somewhere like Hong Kong, you have very distinct bodies that are looking after each individual component. So, there are lots of different models that can be developed. But, of course, in Wales, and also previously in England, the qualifications regulator has also had a responsibility for curriculum. So, there has been that model in the past in Wales.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Just very briefly.\nLynne Neagle AM: Really quickly, please.\n",
      "Gareth Pierce: Just one thing very briefly, in terms of the WJEC. I mentioned earlier that, in the past, the WJEC has produced a fair few resources in collaboration with publishers in key stage 3 and even at primary stages. Certainly, key stage 3 is closely linked to GCSE, and, therefore, if the WJEC continues to be a player\u2014as I hope it will\u2014in the area of resources for GCSE and A-level, then the WJEC is also well positioned in terms of our investment in editing, translating and the use of technology to contribute to key stage 3 most certainly and perhaps even the primary stages. So, I'm sure that the WJEC would want to offer itself as a national organisation that wants to contribute as best we can in this area.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you very much. Well, we're out of time, so can I thank you very much for attending this morning and for answering all our questions? I think it's been a very useful and informative session. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy, following the meeting. But thank you very much, again, for your attendance.\nGareth Pierce: Thank you very much.\n"
    ],
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  },
  {
    "id": 25,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The whole meeting was about what the group should do for the remote control, from a good-looking appearance to a joyful user experience. At the beginning, the group had individual presentations about their previous research findings. Through those presentations, all of the four got a general idea about the target market, the functions and the layout. They talked about the functions carefully as well as the interface design of the remote control later on. Finally, under the leadership of the Project Manager, all the members got some assignments for their next detailed design.",
    "docs": [
      "Industrial Designer: {gap} .\nUser Interface: Hello {vocalsound} . 'Kay .\nProject Manager: You all saw the newsflash ?\nIndustrial Designer: It's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Or you got the same message ?\nMarketing: Yeah I I just saw it one minute ago .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah sorry .\nIndustrial Designer: I don't know .\nMarketing: When I uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I didn't see it yet I think .\nUser Interface: Newsflash ? D did I miss something ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . Yeah I received an email so I thought I I can't mail you so I thought I'd just drop it in the folder , but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah pretty much .\nIndustrial Designer: Hey what's wrong with my computer ?\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Is it unlocked ?\nUser Interface: No .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nMarketing: Mm . Yeah that's my presentation . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Woah . I uh kind of opened it {gap} .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Huh ?\nMarketing: Mm ?\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: What the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh right .\nUser Interface: I think you have to uh change your desktop uh\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: size .\nMarketing: Ooh . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: 'Kay . Everybody ready ?\nIndustrial Designer: Not really .\nMarketing: Well {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Sorry .\nProject Manager: No no no . Yes yes yes .\nUser Interface: {gap} computer is uh not functioning ?\nMarketing: Alright .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay . Where do I find this ? I'm not so g display huh ?\nUser Interface: Uh display .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: And then uh settings ?\nIndustrial Designer: Appearance ?\nMarketing: Huh .\nUser Interface: Mm I'm not sure I {gap} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} You read the newsflash ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: 'Kay . Can we get started\nUser Interface: No .\nIndustrial Designer: No what was it about ?\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: or is there some pressing issue ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah my computer is not functioning properly .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh no pressing .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Did you plug in the power cable when you come back ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah . No but my screen is reduced in size . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah . That's difficult . Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: What ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Feedback .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: {gap} alt delete . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Format . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Format save .\nMarketing: {gap} . So it doesn't draw the attention away .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: This is dreadful .\nUser Interface: I made uh uh my own map .\nProject Manager: Oh yeah sure .\nIndustrial Designer: No not this , but the task .\nUser Interface: It's a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You have Playstation also ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} No that's okay . No I just flapped it , closed it , took it here and then this happened . Ah . Uh {disfmarker} where was it ? In settings ? Okay . Alright . Thank you .\nProject Manager: Huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Do you guys like your tasks ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I spent a lot of time thinking about what I was gonna do and then a couple of minutes before this I get my function you know the information that I need .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah wa wa you actually {disfmarker} Yeah . But it it's not clear what you have to to to type uh type in your presentation .\nIndustrial Designer: So frustrating .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . I I had a whole idea and then just was typing it and then oh . I have to do that so switch .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {disfmarker} Yeah exactly . This presentation is mainly based on my own ideas 'cause I hadn't time to intergrate tha the information yet so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Really annoying .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . So there we are again .\nMarketing: By your humble P_M_ .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay this is the agenda . Um we have three presentations , I heard .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Really . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah really . {vocalsound} So who wants to start ?\nMarketing: Yeah that's fine {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: We have to start it right away ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Uh this is you ?\nMarketing: Functional ? Yeah functional requirements .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay .\n",
      "Marketing: Alright . I'm gonna talk about functional requirements . Um {disfmarker} Well uh some research has be done uh has been done . Uh observing of one hundred uh subjects in the usability lab using a remote control . Uh and they also filled in a questionnaire . The findings were um , well you can see them for yourself . They disliked the look-and-feel of current remotes controls . {vocalsound} Users think they're ugly . Um {vocalsound} they do not match the the operating behaviour of the users . So they they d they don't match what they want to have on it . Um {vocalsound} they are often lost somewhere in the room . Um it takes too much time to learn how to use a new remote control . And they're bad for R_S_I_ . {vocalsound} I don't know uh how a user can reach that but okay . Um {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Ts\nMarketing: there is also uh was also some research on uh the most relevant and and and irrelevant uh f functions . Uh most irrelevant and less used were audio settings , mono , stereo , uh pitch , bass . Um screen settings for brightness and colour and stuff like that . Um but they are used . I mean the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So they do need to be in the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah they do need to be on the on the remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\n",
      "Marketing: I mean if you can't control the the sound settings {disfmarker} I mean if you dislike a very uh loud bass or something , you you need to change that .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {gap} often .\nMarketing: So um yeah we have to .\nIndustrial Designer: By the way my T_V_ doesn't have an equ equaliser but\nMarketing: We c we c Yeah I mean w we can't {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Next generation does . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {disfmarker} okay .\nMarketing: my my T_V_ has ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No . {vocalsound} Alright .\nMarketing: but we we can leave them uh away . Uh most relevant , uh most used functions , uh they speak for themselves I guess . Uh power button , uh channel , volume selection . Uh teletext but we can skip that because I saw the newsflash , and teletext is so outdated that it it's i should not be used uh any more in the future .\nProject Manager: N not used anymore .\nMarketing: So forget this one .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Uh channel settings , so for programming uh your channels in in the right order .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: By the way where did you guys get that newsflash from ?\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} I was wondering uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I didn't get anything .\nMarketing: Yeah , {vocalsound} on on the project uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Not by mail . I receiv the mail but you don't . So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But you you've got more information than {disfmarker} uh .\nMarketing: No so it's a text file n in the project folder . So teletext can be skipped .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's in the presentation , so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Um there was some research on new features in a remote control . Uh about an L_C_D_ screen uh and speech recognition . Well we got an update for the for the audience . Or the the the targeted group . So it's above forty I guess .\nProject Manager: Uh below I believe .\nMarketing: The new product ? Or below {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah below forty .\nMarketing: because that's pretty relevant .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: I thought I read a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Our current customers are in the age group forty plus .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nProject Manager: And the new product should reach new markets , which is the customers below forty .\nMarketing: Below ? Okay well {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: But where did you get uh that information ?\nProject Manager: That's in a newsflash .\nMarketing: that's that's in the newsfla\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: okay that's a good to know . Um because you see see a clear distinction between the age groups , concerning the features .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: I mean uh above forty people are not so interested uh not so interested in a screen or speech recognition . Uh but below that age they uh they pretty much are . So I think we can build that in . Um {disfmarker} Yeah well we can skip this part as well , because I thought I read above forty so we could skip the features , but we just have to build them in because uh they find it very interesting . Um well we have to keep all the classic functions but make the buttons as user-friendly as possible . Um and and also there's {disfmarker} so not only the design of the bus uh buttons but o how you can push them , and stuff like that . So the physical uh aspect of it . Um {disfmarker} And I think {disfmarker} and certainly for for the for the lower age groups , uh nice design , which uh does not make the remote control {gap} in your room .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: It's it's actually a part of your interior , of of your design in your room . So it's {vocalsound} the people can say , well what's that , well that's my remote control , so it's d it has to look nice and feel nice , and and have all the functions that uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . But it also needs to have corporate identity .\nMarketing: Yeah so the the logo has to be\nProject Manager: Present and the colours .\nMarketing: uh present yeah , and the colours as well .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} So we can't change much of that .\nIndustrial Designer: Do we have {disfmarker} uh yeah {gap} .\nMarketing: Yeah so but I I don't think that's that's a problem because the thing has to have a colour anyway , and most of the times there is a brand present on it .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: So I think that's not gonna gonna affect it very uh very much .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Well that are the the consequences uh on a marketing uh part .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Yes .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: It's open already so you can use {gap} to\nMarketing: {gap} .\nProject Manager: find yours .\nUser Interface: Mm . It's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: F_ five .\nUser Interface: F_ five . Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Go Jurgen .\nUser Interface: Oh . What is this ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh no . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: How do I uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} You pressed alt F_ four ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No no no . I pressed the mouse button .\nProject Manager: Oh great . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It's {disfmarker} th that's the self-destruct button .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Okay .\nProject Manager: Uh maybe you can do it from your computer so talk us through it .\nUser Interface: Okay . Um if you all go stand around uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . Just {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Computer {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Sure .\nUser Interface: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: That's nice . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No .\nProject Manager: F_ five . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Alright .\nUser Interface: I uh had uh two examples .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Um this one is the the yeah the advanced one with a lot of options and functions and buttons .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: This the easy one\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: I think we have to to combine them . And uh yeah merge the best functions of all examples .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Um but yeah the the age is uh under forty ?\nProject Manager: The mm yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah and and and marketing research stated that that that kind of users are not afraid of of a lot of functions .\nUser Interface: So we {disfmarker} Okay so so we have the option for more functions .\n",
      "Marketing: So not not too much but {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Um {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And we do have to integrate the screen and the the speech {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And the speech recognition yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: alright .\nUser Interface: Uh yeah this this one we can remove for kids . It's just only for adults so uh we can uh use some advanced options . But {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah from age of sixteen so yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah but I prefer we we uh use the the basic options uh yeah . We have to to make them very easy so for just uh zapping around the channels you can just push one button .\nMarketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: But if you want to to use your your video recorder or something else , you should use use an uh an advanced option .\nMarketing: Yeah but uh the the newsflash also stated that it should control only one device , only your television .\nUser Interface: Okay one device .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So n it's very easy .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay . I didn't see {gap} .\nMarketing: So w\nProject Manager: Now yeah it's okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay and I also uh yeah . W yeah .\nMarketing: So there are not extra options in this case , but uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: We have to make it fashionable . Like you uh said uh before .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh yeah the basic functions . Um yeah only use a extra function if they are really needed .\nProject Manager: Yeah so maybe you can hide them or something .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah well what what we can do with the screen is is all the the configuration options , you can put that in the screen .\nProject Manager: Yeah you make a screen menu or something .\nMarketing: And the and the {disfmarker} yeah screen menu to to to uh to do that ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: and then the basic function just on the device itself .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So it looks very simple and all the advanced features are hidden in the screen , uh with a clear menu .\nProject Manager: Yeah and the other oth other uh functionality is the screen .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: What does the screen do ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Did I uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Uh . {vocalsound} What are {disfmarker} wh\nProject Manager: Yeah . It's low power .\nUser Interface: did I break it ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: What {gap} .\nProject Manager: So what does the screen do ? They said they needed it but what does it do ? What do they want with the screen ?\nUser Interface: For for the advanced functions I think .\nProject Manager: Yeah that's what we make it up .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah well it {gap} yeah it didn't\nProject Manager: So but what did the marketing {disfmarker}\nMarketing: it didn't say what they want to do with the screen .\nProject Manager: No .\nMarketing: Well I , my guess is it's it's pretty handy for advanced uh advanced functions .\nProject Manager: Yeah okay it's handy . With no predefined uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Like searching for channels and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Ah look .\nMarketing: Yeah searching for channels , programming them .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: We have your uh {disfmarker} oh never mind . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We're back online . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay . That's uh {disfmarker} I'm al I'm almost finished so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Um the {disfmarker} we have to to to watch out for the {disfmarker} i if we make it f very fashionable , it it the functional functionality will go down . So we have to make uh a compromise between functionality and fashional fashionable\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Content and form .\nUser Interface: yeah content and form .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Now that that was uh was the end .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} That was the end . Okay .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well my presentation is a bit uh sucky . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well you can improvise right ?\nProject Manager: Uh which one is it ? Technical functions ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah a little bit .\n",
      "Project Manager: This one ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh no . No no . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Functional requirements ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I think that would be it then . {gap}\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You didn't put it in ? Or {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I have no idea .\nMarketing: So we we can go for {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: That w {gap} .\nProject Manager: {gap} it's not really English . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Let me check . I know .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh kick off . Oh working design I got it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: So we can go for the look-and-feel of the the left example , and then a screen on top of it .\nProject Manager: Here you go .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright how do I uh skip pages ?\nProject Manager: Just uh press uh {disfmarker} yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: The keys yeah ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright . Um yeah well I was working on this before I got my information . So I was just working off the top of my head and using my colin common knowledge about uh remote controls .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And well the info on the website which came too late .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Um so I didn't really know what kind of functions we had to put into it yet .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: So uh uh this is basically an overview of what we discussed in our last uh meeting . Those were my uh starting points .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh I was working on a s yeah on a schedule , and I was supposed to do it like this . But um yeah then uh the information came and it was kind of exact with all the steps in the remote control that I had to follow , so I was trying to organise them for myself .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: And then make the\nProject Manager: Design yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: the design , a the actual design ,\nMarketing: Design ? Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but I never came around to do that . So I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say about it .\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: I mean everything speaks for itself I guess . Mean you press a button um {vocalsound} the it tru goes , it sends a signal to a chip ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: which uh translates it into infrared signal of certin spatial frequencies .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah frequency . Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh or temporal fr frequencies actually . And then uh through a uh transformer , it the signal gets boosted and then sent to the to the receiver on the T_V_\nProject Manager: Yeah decoder .\nIndustrial Designer: and the T_V_ will translate it into a function . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah well this was actually {vocalsound} all I got around to do .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Blank . Yeah okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I mean I dunno if I'm too slow for this stuff , but uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Work harder .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay shou should we make a list of the of all the functions we want uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Whatever .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah we want to incorporate in uh into it .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay . Um for those that didn't see yet um the basic new requirements of the management were no teletext , only for T_V_ . Uh it should be designed for a use g uh group below forty , but I don't think it's w wrong if we can uh target the current customer group as well .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: And uh the corporate identity should be clear in the design of the remote control . And we have to decide on the functions , and on the , let's see what was it , uh the target group . We have to make be clear what that is .\n",
      "Marketing: {gap} group of users , or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah users .\nMarketing: because it says below forty I mean . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah so I think it's easy but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I guess that's that's the tar yeah uh or male and female {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But uh it's it's also for children or just uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah it's below forty so we can decide where to {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh six {disfmarker} the marketing research started on s on the age of sixteen .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay . Okay .\nMarketing: Sixteen to twenty five , twenty five to thirty five , thirty five to forty five , something like that .\nProject Manager: Okay . So below forty is okay .\nMarketing: So um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But we need an {disfmarker} lower level which to s uh focus .\nMarketing: How do you mean ?\nProject Manager: So is it from sixteen to forty ? Is it from twenty to forty ? Is it from thirty ?\nMarketing: Uh sixteen to forty .\nProject Manager: Yeah ? 'Kay .\nUser Interface: Yeah . We we have to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Well I I guess people of sixteen are are quite used to technology .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: So they they adapt to it pretty soon I guess .\nUser Interface: And if we have a larger public we have uh yeah more options to to uh sell our product .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah so what we might wanna do is uh yeah cust I have customised the screen functions , if you know what I mean .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: The uh younger users are more acquainted with these kind of machines so they can use more advanced functions . But maybe elderly people don't understand it so well , so they need a simpler remote .\n",
      "Project Manager: Design . Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: And yeah that you can choose what the design displays , or wha whatever .\nUser Interface: Yeah that's that's why uh I wanted to to make yeah two uh different uh yeah groups of functions . The the simple functions for for the the whole public , and the the advanced options for the younger people yeah who are more yeah experienced with uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} And maybe y\nIndustrial Designer: Experienced yeah .\nMarketing: But uh all incorporated in the screen or or just on the remote itself ?\n",
      "User Interface: Na I w I should uh put uh the the yeah the extra advanced options on the onto the onscreen display .\nMarketing: Yeah\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: like like you have a visual of the of the brightness with with a kind of sliding bar and a bus and and stuff like that for sound and and vis and and visuals ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So is {disfmarker} you should have a menu for all the the functions you don't use regular and which are {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh you can make a {disfmarker} if you make a drawing .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . Aye yeah .\nMarketing: Uh {disfmarker} Uh {gap} .\nProject Manager: Shall I uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh black's okay . {vocalsound} And draw it very big .\nProject Manager: Yeah . It's okay .\nMarketing: Oh . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: {gap} no , it doesn't have line control , so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah we get the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah well , this is basically uh it's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: The remote ?\nProject Manager: The remote , yeah ?\nMarketing: alright the remote ? Um well usually the power button is on top I guess .\nProject Manager: Basic . Is on top . Which should be easy , easily reached with the thumb .\nMarketing: Yeah so it should fit right in into your hand .\nUser Interface: Yeah . L left top or right uh top ?\nProject Manager: T I s should said right .\nMarketing: Right . Right .\nUser Interface: Yeah , right .\nIndustrial Designer: Right top .\n",
      "Marketing: I most people are right-handed so {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah definitely .\nMarketing: maybe left-handed special addition , but okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: If you put it like like here . Or something . I dunno . Um then you could put a screen , like on a mobile phone , also on top I guess .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah but if you are using the the normal functions , the the basic functions , you normally press them on the u yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Do the also with the thumb . So it should be a little bit longer so that you can put your uh thumb , also reach the middle . Or you should screen at the bottom and then you can see it very clearly .\nMarketing: Okay so y yeah you have you have it in your hand , and the screen is below , and the buttons are in the middle .\nProject Manager: You you need to be able to hold it so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay for example {vocalsound} if you put the screen here , it's more about the functions now than the than the layout .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah okay that's true . Layout . That's for the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Doesn't work too well . It's uh it's bent .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I can't help it . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap} .\nUser Interface: You broke it . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nProject Manager: Man . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Right .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay you get it . Uh for example if y if you put all the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Right .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} You want the normal piece of paper ? And you have a pen ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And might be easier huh ?\nMarketing: Maybe this . {gap} kind of works .\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\nMarketing: Like if you have like uh ten buttons for for all the for all the channels ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Uh .\n",
      "Marketing: um and here one for for\nProject Manager: And the for flipping up and down .\nUser Interface: Yeah yeah . And volume control .\nMarketing: Yeah that that usually uh {disfmarker} like here , here , here , here .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: So you have up and down for the for the channels , and left and right for the volume uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And left to right . And those can also be used for the menu .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah exactly . I thought {disfmarker} but this is really your department , that we need just the functional display and four cursors .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah okay but this is function so if you can use them for multiple things {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And you you have {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And {disfmarker}\nMarketing: most of the time you have one button in the middle . It says menu ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah okay .\nProject Manager: For the menu . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: and then if you press it you {disfmarker} the screen gets activated and then you can use these buttons to scroll up and down and left and right to go into functon\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: and then just {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: mo most of the time this menu button is also like okay , to to confirm a a kind of action .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: So you scroll into it , okay . You select a function like v like uh bass . You just adjust it with these two buttons .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Then okay to confirm , and then uh on on each on each screen there's there should be an option to go back to a to a upper level .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: And then finally say okay , exit . Or or one button to exit it .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh in one time I dunno , that's not really my department .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} And do we need a a logo on our uh remote control , or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} That's more your uh your department to to uh to {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . But it should be {disfmarker} if the screen is here then the logo should be like on on top ,\nUser Interface: On the left uh top yeah .\nMarketing: yeah . I mean it's uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah but that depends on where you put the screen .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: But it's essential that there is a screen .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah I mean the position of the screen is also more essential than {disfmarker} I mean we we look where we have space left and then put the logo over there .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah . And for the speech uh recognition part , if we want to incorporate that , we need a microphone .\nMarketing: But um {disfmarker} Yeah so it should be {disfmarker} I mean if you have it in your hand here , should be on top somewhere , maybe .\nProject Manager: Yeah . This would be uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Why did we wanna put the display in the bottom ?\nMarketing: I mean i\nProject Manager: No that's not s sure so {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: That's not sure\nProject Manager: uh we need a display .\n",
      "Marketing: but it's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah may maybe because you're {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Because yeah if you use the functions your hand will block the display .\nUser Interface: Yeah okay but {gap} only for the basic functi if you're going to use the advanced option , you're going to press the the menu button and then {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah I mean a screen on top looks more lo logical to me .\nIndustrial Designer: Normal for logical t\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Also because people use m mobile phones and they also have the screen on top .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah they're used to it .\nUser Interface: Okay the {disfmarker} yeah . That's possible .\nMarketing: So you you just have to reach a little bit for the power button .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: I mean if you grab it .\nIndustrial Designer: On once it's on it's on . You don't need the power button .\nMarketing: But most most of the times if a if if a T_V_'s on standby people just press a channel to put it on .\nUser Interface: Yeah , okay . Okay we put it on top .\nMarketing: So we put this on top , and then make the corporate logo\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: like over here . R_R_ . And j and the microphone , I mean it can be very small . If you look at your mobile phones {gap} are some stripes , {vocalsound} little little holes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe on the top or even on the side .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah maybe on the side . I mean if the if the microphone is good .\nProject Manager: Yeah but then it's possible that you cover it with your hand so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: True .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah okay . So on the on the top is better .\nProject Manager: I think that top is the best option .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} But if you uh if you hold the ma the remote like this , if you put it on the top on the side {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah okay .\nIndustrial Designer: I dunno . Should be able to work .\nMarketing: Yeah . {gap} .\nProject Manager: Depends on the sensitivity of the microphone , but I think that's okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Never mind . Can we leave this up to you ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah it doesn't matter that much . So {disfmarker} but um the screen is on top ? Which functions did we have left ? I mean this is basically numbers , volume , uh channel up and down .\nProject Manager: Volume . Up . Channel up and down , and the control of the advanced options .\nMarketing: Screen is over there .\nProject Manager: So maybe it , we should decide what advanced options we want to put in the L_C_D_ screen .\nUser Interface: Yeah . If we {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah . That's uh that's a good one .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah so we we needed to integrate the sound and uh and image options right ?\nProject Manager: Yeah so sounds ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Like uh bass uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . Sound ?\nIndustrial Designer: so we need kind of an equaliser . If you {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . Equaliser . So if you have sound {disfmarker} But not too advanced . I mean most T_V_s use only treble and bass .\nProject Manager: Yeah\nUser Interface: Yeah it it's just a remote control so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: and they're {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah treble , middl middle , bass or something .\nProject Manager: They're not used often so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . It's uh pretty hard to write .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Ah as {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah just {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Mm . Okay but you have sound ?\nProject Manager: Yeah sounds .\nMarketing: Yeah just {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: oh y you have digital uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\n",
      "Marketing: better write it down over there yeah .\nProject Manager: Of course . I'm just a {vocalsound} secretary .\nMarketing: So you have sound .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Coffee ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah sound and then within sound I guess treble and bass ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes please .\nProject Manager: Treble bass .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} the mono stereo option ?\nMarketing: Yeah . Also .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: And there there was something else also .\nProject Manager: Pitch I believe , yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And then pitch .\nMarketing: Pitch . Yeah . But pitch , isn't that {disfmarker} yeah that's the the height of the tone .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: The fr yeah the frequency of the tones , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah okay ,\nProject Manager: Yeah and mono stereo .\nMarketing: wh why would you use that ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah isn't that that depends on the on the signal of the of what program you're watching .\nMarketing: If people like talk like uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: And also the tuning part ?\nMarketing: Programming part .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah programming . So channel programming ?\nMarketing: Uh so we have sound , yeah ? Channel programming .\nIndustrial Designer: And yeah in the functionality of the\nUser Interface: Television uh itself uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: no no of the remote uh do do we want uh the buttons to make sound when you press them ? As a confirmation or whatever you know ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: I dunno .\nMarketing: I think it g it gets annoying .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: I mean most mobile phones used that in the beginning but {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: We we could make an option for it , but uh you can disable s\nIndustrial Designer: Under the a yeah advanced option menu you can put those things .\nUser Interface: Yeah . But uh the the television itself has also the the options {gap} brightness and uh screen colour etcetera . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Contrast yeah .\nUser Interface: yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah but people don't want to sit on their knees on their knees in front of their television with {gap} only three buttons then it's very hard to\nProject Manager: Mm . No . Uh , so contrast ,\nMarketing: y yeah contrast and brightness ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: bright ,\nMarketing: Yeah those are the most used I guess . If you look at your monitor .\nProject Manager: uh {disfmarker} And the others were in your presentation right ? So I can just copy those ?\nMarketing: Well {vocalsound} yeah well I guess that these were the only ones , I guess .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} It's easy . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: But so we have we have T_V_ options , which is all this .\nMarketing: Yeah . I will look it up .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah the button options and the L_C_D_ options .\nIndustrial Designer: The sound , sound and image . And you have in that uh the indeed the remote control options .\nProject Manager: Indeed .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So we need two menus kind of thing .\nProject Manager: Yeah you have basically a button menu , which you can use directly , uh according to the old principle .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: And the L_C_D_ options are activated by some some software options , thats communicates with the infrared uh decoder yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah with the chip and then {gap} I mean {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So you {disfmarker} You have an additional processor and and software part .\nMarketing: Uh {disfmarker} yeah . Well {disfmarker} yeah we have power button , whether that's present .\nProject Manager: Compared to o\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Channel volume selection present . Uh numbers present . Yeah a audio settings , mono , stereo , pitch , bass , treble . Screen settings , brightness and colour .\n",
      "Project Manager: L_ s Yeah . Colour . Yeah I I call it contrast .\nMarketing: Yeah con contrast is {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah I make it c colour .\nMarketing: Yeah okay , colour and brightness .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Um and what you say , channel settings or channel programming ? So you you have an option to to start scanning all the frequencies , and when it encounters one , well it shows on your T_V_ . And then you can um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah and automatically um {disfmarker} Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Uh and then you can select uh a number in your remote on which you want to save it .\nProject Manager: Yeah so I've g channel program is autoseek ?\nMarketing: Yeah , autoseek .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh name a channel , or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Well most T_V_s automatically display the name , which they get through the cable .\nProject Manager: Oh they get automatic names , okay .\nMarketing: Yeah . So you only have to choose the position on your\nProject Manager: {gap} .\n",
      "Marketing: It only has to match the the channel frequency on your T_V_ , with with the with the position on your T_V_ and and so your remote .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah but can you also say I want f uh Veronica on the channel number uh five or {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Help .\nMarketing: If you already programmed it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: If you want to move it . Yeah that should be possible too .\nProject Manager: Yeah . How do you call that ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah how do you call that ? Mm ? Wait you you should be able to to browse through a list or something , which w displays all the all the values , all the channels which are possible .\nProject Manager: Channels ? Yeah .\nMarketing: I mean like one to f thirty of or ninety or whatever .\nProject Manager: Ninety nine or something . Yeah .\nMarketing: Just browse through it and then um in some kind of way see if it if it if it is programmed .\nProject Manager: S swap channels ? Can I call it that ?\nMarketing: Yeah . Swap channels .\nProject Manager: Swap's good option . Okay . Uh other functions ?\n",
      "Marketing: So you {disfmarker} most of the time if you if you swap it {disfmarker} S uh let's say for example you have uh R_T_L_ five on on channel five . And Veronica on channel eight and you want to move Veronica to channel five , most of the times you override the previous uh the previous one .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} Okay . Well that's 's up to uh Mister User Interface Designer .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah . It's it's pretty uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: yeah I mean you have to look on on the menu\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} working design . Doch .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Also .\nMarketing: on the T_V_ .\nProject Manager: That's {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} He only has to figure out how it has to look .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah but also , which buttons you have to press to get a certain result ?\nIndustrial Designer: And how\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: to use {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: And the working design was to specify how ph the physical interation between the components was , as I believe .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah okay . But {disfmarker} You did your homework . But um {disfmarker} yeah . Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Or or is it too hard to to ju to just do it all on your remote ? To programme the channels ?\nProject Manager: No I don't think so .\nIndustrial Designer: No no . It should be able to do any remote .\nUser Interface: No that's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh .\n",
      "Project Manager: But I think the communication with the television is difficult . But that's not our part .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: We don't have to design a protocol so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: That's true . That's true .\nIndustrial Designer: Thank god .\nUser Interface: Okay {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . So we have a figure a figure out a way to to do that easily . I mean th the autoseek is is not a problem .\nProject Manager: No that's the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: I mean you uh you uh current channel and then then it just says , uh on which number do you want to save this , and you just press a number on your remote , and then say confirm , okay , and then it's it's saved . It's easier , {gap} it's it's it's harder to , if you have already programmed it , to to swap .\nProject Manager: Yeah . So but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So we have to think of something for that .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} The User Interface Designer can design a menu for all these function I put them on the {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah k kind of structure into layers .\nUser Interface: On the uh yeah can you i make a a map with with all the {disfmarker} yeah 'cause it's now {disfmarker} there are lots and lots of documents\nProject Manager: {gap} . Yeah . Yeah I can .\nUser Interface: and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I'll just try to reorganise uh things . Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: So you design the basic function menu for the L_C_D_ screen ? Uh um {disfmarker} I think {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And and the layout of of the thing itself .\nProject Manager: th I think the yeah the layout of the screen\nUser Interface: The the layout of the remote control ?\nProject Manager: and I think you can concentrate more on the button placement and the placement of the uh screen itself on the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {gap} .\nUser Interface: Isn't that more the the u uh the user interface part ?\n",
      "Project Manager: {gap} . No I d I think that's more in {disfmarker} {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh all the functional uh aspects of the remote I think are in my department .\nMarketing: Maybe more on {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I have to know what it has to do , so if you wanna you know the changing the channels kind of s thing is , I have to integrate that in the design .\nProject Manager: Okay . So he's layout and you're function .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Form function okay . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I think that's a that's a good separation .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: But do I have to to uh to yeah to make the the menu layout also ? Or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Are you going to do that ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah I guess so .\nUser Interface: Yeah ? I I'm going to make {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think i that's your department yes ,\nUser Interface: yeah o okay .\nProject Manager: because w he already knows what {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah we have to kind of work together .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: If if I make the the the yeah the menu like , I have to state which function has to be in the menu ,\nProject Manager: But we're not allowed . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and then you have to decide , it's , in a in a way that b is user-friendly .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Okay . Y you you are going to make a list of what functions are uh are going to to be on the the screen , the menu screen .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: And I'm going to make a a nice menu uh with with {gap} pages and yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: I think {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: With with some l with some layers in it .\nProject Manager: Yeah and also make clear which buttons to press to get certain result ,\nMarketing: So some menus .\nProject Manager: because that's always the difficulty .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Every device has its own {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . Well I guess this this button , the the the okay ,\nProject Manager: Menu okay .\n",
      "Marketing: menu okay . Or you can incorporate two uh difference uh different buttons . Uh like uh for your mobile phone . Um so this is only for to get in the menu , or to exit it .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: And then one to confirm , and one to go one step back .\nProject Manager: Back . Yeah .\nMarketing: So it's like the the save button on your your mobile phone , if you have a Nokia or like that . Or the or the no button .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: To go one step back you {gap} it's only two extra buttons ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . W we {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: but if it if it's very clear that they are for the screen {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Uh I think we have to to group , to make two groups . Um the {disfmarker} one group for the for the display , and one group for the basic functions , and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah but they're incorporated {gap} ? Up and down is {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah okay but we we have a m\nMarketing: Yeah because this this is used for both .\nUser Interface: yeah but maybe that's that's not uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Smart ?\n",
      "User Interface: yeah if you're if you're z zapping uh with your uh yeah remote control , you can press the the menu button , and then you are suddenly into the the yeah the display .\nMarketing: Into your screen . Okay . So you\nIndustrial Designer: You wanna separate uh {vocalsound}\nMarketing: l should leave the menu button out of here .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: And {gap} and just put it under the screen , the screen {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Put it on top .\nUser Interface: Yeah j just just group group the {disfmarker} yeah we make these the advanced functions and these the basic functions .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: So we make a yeah a line between them .\nMarketing: Yeah . But we should place the screen on top , right ?\nProject Manager: Well {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: F oh yeah . Okay yeah we swap uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: But that's uh J Jurgen's department .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . So we make it a {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . You just you just find out and {gap} .\nProject Manager: You just make the layout . You {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: do we do the extra two buttons or not ?\nUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I think you should .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: It's easier . If you put too many functions in one button it gets confusing .\nProject Manager: Yeah okay . That's true .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . So we have a a menu button and a s\nProject Manager: And to , okay and back , also .\nUser Interface: Okay . Okay and back button .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah , or confirm and back . Whatever .\nProject Manager: And of course the four arrows .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\n",
      "Project Manager: But those are still y doubly used . Both the L_C_D_ {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Should we save this picture , or or you know what it looks like ?\nUser Interface: Yeah I'm I'm not s clear about uh the the extra two buttons . We have a menu button and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . That that just to to activate the screen . So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That's the the one with the {disfmarker} yeah okay .\nProject Manager: Menu button access the menu in the L_C_D_ screen .\n",
      "Marketing: And then with these buttons , woa , y you navigate .\nProject Manager: You can navigate .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: But you can also navigate the channels . And the volume .\nUser Interface: Okay so that that's not uh {disfmarker} Yeah that {disfmarker} Those are\nProject Manager: Those are both both {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: multifunctional .\nProject Manager: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Hey is it interesting for users if we put LED lights under the buttons ? So that if you uh press on the menu function that only the buttons that are used for the menu are ligh li light up .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . L l litten up yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Oh five minutes .\nMarketing: That's very good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: N\nMarketing: Alright .\nProject Manager: Light uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah that's a good idea because then it becomes clear which buttons are active now , which you can use .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah and then it's also easier to integrate several functions in one button .\nProject Manager: Yeah sure .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Anything else ?\n",
      "Marketing: Those buttons are are lit up .\nIndustrial Designer: I think not .\nMarketing: But just one thing . Should we use those two ? Them ? Or only this to to scroll ?\nProject Manager: I've {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And then use the two functional buttons to confirm , to go into something ? Oh no we have to use this to adjust some some bars ?\nProject Manager: Volume .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah keep it optional 'cause maybe you can you know go left to right and up and down in a in one menu .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . And maybe we should use this also as an okay button , still . And then just only a back button .\nProject Manager: Well we have those buttons . We use all four .\nUser Interface: No {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: The pr the problem with the okay button in the middle is , sorry\nProject Manager: Yeah okay go ahead .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: sorry , uh is uh if you're pressing up and down , you can easily press the okay once you , when you're not already at your choice .\nUser Interface: Yeah . So maybe make one uh one okay button and and one navigation button .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah that was already decided .\nMarketing: And one back .\nUser Interface: Yeah the with with the the channel and the volume uh {disfmarker} yeah m a multifunctional navigation button .\nProject Manager: Okay that's what we decided earlier on .\nUser Interface: Yeah okay . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Right okay . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: You wanna close down huh ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: yeah I wanna close down .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I have to , sorry .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: it's not because I don't like you but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: That's okay .\nProject Manager: yh we have lunch break ,\nIndustrial Designer: Already .\nProject Manager: and then we can work for thirty minutes , and I have to write very fast to make the minich min minutes . And then uh we'll see {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright . How m how long is the lunchbreak ?\nProject Manager: I don't know . Nobody told me . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: We have to ask . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: But do we have to write uh to write down uh the our stuff now ? Or first lunchbreak ?\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: No I th believe there's first lunch break .\nUser Interface: Because I {disfmarker} I've everything in my head now {vocalsound} so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Or you can just {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: Yes .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: I think you can put uh the laptop back in the room and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\nIndustrial Designer: This is {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yes sir . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Time pressure .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . Yeah it's a lot of pressure .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Sorry for my uh not finished presentation uh .\nProject Manager: That's okay . Oh yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh no no . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah we'll kick your ass later . No . {vocalsound} Uh .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Bring it on .\nProject Manager: I don't know if it works but it should be saved .\nMarketing: Aye {disfmarker} Y you saved it ? Does it save automatically in the project folder ? Or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . It's uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay . We'll see .\nProject Manager: Should be here . Smart board .\nMarketing: Just put back my laptop .\n",
      "Project Manager: Don't know if you can use it but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Alright .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah you can open it with the picture preview or stuff like that .\nUser Interface: And uh we have to make uh some maps with uh with the all the the data we uh gathered .\nProject Manager: Yeah . I try to organise it by these three .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {gap} . It's it's just my own map so I put everything into the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah {gap} yeah yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: I don't really mind . I just put the minutes here and we'll see .\nUser Interface: But you got some extra information uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah that's in the functional design uh folder .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah that's just basically what I just showed .\nUser Interface: But where do you did you get the newsflash ?\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah I got it by {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: You're the only one uh {disfmarker} okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: yeah . I'm gonna get kicked if I don't do it so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap} internet .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nMarketing: Alright .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Make me proud .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I'll try to .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So first we have a lunchbreak now ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Alright .\nProject Manager: I believe so . {gap} just ask . {vocalsound}\n"
    ],
    "length": 13601,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 26,
    "question": "What was discussed in the meeting?",
    "answer": "The group discussed plans and concerns regarding the architecture of SmartKom, its proposed modules, and the types of interactions expected to take place between modules. The meeting was largely focused on SmartKom's decision making capacity and how to adapt this functionality to the tourist information domain. The group set a date for assessing SmartKom plans.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad C: Hmm . Testing channel two .\nGrad E: Two , two . \nGrad C: Two .\nGrad E: Two . Oh .\nGrad D: Hello ?\nGrad B: Hmm ? Yeah Thank You . OK Well , so Ralf and Tilman are here .\nProfessor F: OK . Great . Great .\nGrad B: Made it safely .\nProfessor F: So the {disfmarker} what w we h have been doing i they would like us all to read these digits . But we don't all read them but a couple people read them .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor F: Uh , wanna give them all with German accents today or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad B: Sure .\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad B: OK and the way you do it is you just read the numbers not as uh each single , so just like I do it .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: OK . First you read the transcript number . Turn .\nGrad D: OK , uh {disfmarker} What 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: OK . Let 's be done with this .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor F: OK . this is Ami , who {disfmarker} And this is Tilman and Ralf .\nPhD A: Hi . Uh - huh . Nice to meet you .\n",
      "Grad D: Hi .\nProfessor F: Hi . OK . So we 're gonna try to finish by five so people who want to can go hear Nancy Chang 's talk , uh downstairs .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor F: And you guys are g giving talks on tomorrow and Wednesday lunch times ,\nPhD A: Yes .\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: right ? That 's great . OK so , do y do you know what we 're gonna do ?\n",
      "Grad B: I thought two things uh we 'll introduce ourselves and what we do . And um we already talked with Andreas , Thilo and David and some lines of code were already written today and almost tested and just gonna say we have um again the recognizer to parser thing where we 're working on and that should be no problem and then that can be sort of developed uh as needed when we get {disfmarker} enter the tourism domain . em we have talked this morning with the {disfmarker} with Tilman about the generator .\nPhD A: S\n",
      "Grad B: and um There one of our diligent workers has to sort of volunteer to look over Tilman 's shoulder while he is changing the grammars to English\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: because w we have {disfmarker} we face two ways . Either we do a syllable concatenating um grammar for the English generation which is sort of starting from scratch and doing it the easy way , or we simply adopt the ah um more in - depth um style that is implemented in the German system and um are then able not only to produce strings but also the syntactic parse uh not parse not the syntactic tree that is underneath in the syntactic structure which is the way we decided we were gonna go because A , it 's easier in the beginning\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: and um it does require some {disfmarker} some knowledge of {disfmarker} of those grammars and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some ling linguistic background . But um it shouldn't be a problem for anyone .\nProfessor F: OK So That sounds good . Johno , are you gonna have some time t to do that uh w with these guys ?\nGrad E: Sure .\nProfessor F: cuz y you 're the grammar maven .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor F: I mean it makes sense ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: doesn't it ? Yeah Good . OK . So , I think that 's probably the {disfmarker} the right way to do that . And an Yeah , so I {disfmarker} I actually wanna f to find out about it too , but I may not have time to get in .\n",
      "Grad B: the {disfmarker} the ultimate goal is that before they leave we {disfmarker} we can run through the entire system input through output on at least one or two sample things . And um and by virtue of doing that then in this case Johno will have acquired the knowledge of how to extend it . Ad infinitum . When needed , if needed , when wanted and so forth .\nProfessor F: OK that sounds great .\nGrad B: And um also um Ralf has hooked up with David and you 're gonna continue either all through tonight or tomorrow on whatever to get the er parser interface working .\nGrad D: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad B: They are thinning out and thickening out lattices and doing this kind of stuff to see what works best .\nGrad D: Mmm , yep .\nProfessor F: Great . So , you guys enjoy your weekend ?\nPhD A: Yes , very much so .\nGrad D: Yeah , very much\nProfessor F: OK , before {disfmarker} before you got put to work ?\nGrad D: Yeah\n",
      "Professor F: Great . OK , so that 's {disfmarker} Sort of one branch is to get us caught up on what 's going on . Also of course it would be really nice to know what the plans are , in addition to what 's sort of already in code .\nPhD A: Yes .\nProfessor F: and we can d I dunno w w was there uh a time when we were set up to do that ? It probably will work better if we do it later in the week , after {pause} we actually understand uh better what 's going on .\nPhD A: Yes .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So when do you guys leave ?\nPhD A: Um we 're here through Sunday ,\nGrad D: Oh\nPhD A: so All through Friday would be fine .\nProfessor F: Oh , OK , so {disfmarker} OK , So {disfmarker} so anyt we 'll find a time later in the week to uh get together and talk about {pause} your understanding of what SmartKom plans are .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: and how we can change them .\nPhD A: Yes . Sure .\nProfessor F: Uh ,\n",
      "Grad B: Should we already set a date for that ? Might be beneficial while we 're all here .\nProfessor F: OK ? um What {disfmarker} what does not work for me is Thursday afternoon . I can do earlier in the day on Thursday , or {pause} um {pause} most of the time on Friday , not all .\nGrad B: Thursday morning sounds fine ?\nProfessor F: Wha - but , Johno ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: what are your constraints ?\nGrad E: um Thursday afternoon doesn't work for me , but {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Neither does Thursday morning , no ?\n",
      "Grad E: Uh Thursday morning should be fine .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor F: Eleven ? Eleven on Thursday ?\nGrad E: I was just thinking I w I will {pause} have {pause} leavened by eleven .\nProfessor F: Right . Right . This is then out of deference to our non - morning people .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . OK . So at eleven ?\nGrad D: Hmm .\nPhD A: Thursday around eleven ? OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah . And actually we can invite um Andreas as well .\nGrad B: Uh he will be in Washington , though .\n",
      "Professor F: Oh that 's true . He 's off {disfmarker} off on his trip already .\nGrad B: but um David is here and he 's actually knows everything about the SmartKom recognizer .\nProfessor F: Thilo . OK well yeah maybe we 'll see if David could make it . That would be good .\nGrad B: OK so facing to {disfmarker} to what we 've sort of been doing here um well for one thing we 're also using this room to collect data .\nPhD A: Yeah obviously .\nGrad B: um um Not this type of data ,\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Grad B: no not meeting data but sort of {disfmarker} sort ah our version of a wizard experiment such not like the ones in Munich but pretty close to it .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: The major difference to the Munich ones is that we do it via the telephone\nPhD A: OK .\nGrad B: even though all the recording is done here and so it 's a {disfmarker} sort of a computer call system that gives you tourist information\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: tells you how to get places . And it breaks halfway through the experiment and a human operator comes on . and part of that is sort of trying to find out whether people change their linguistic verbal behavior when first thinking they speak to a machine and then to a human .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad B: and we 're setting it up so that we can {disfmarker} we hope to implant certain intentions in people . For example um we have first looked at a simple sentence that \" How do I get to the Powder - Tower ? \" OK so you have the {disfmarker} castle of Heidelberg\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: and there is a tower and it 's called Powder - Tower .\nPhD A: Oh , OK . Yeah .\nGrad B: and um so What will you parse out of that sentence ? Probably something that we specified in M - three - L , that is @ @ {comment} \" action go to whatever domain , object whatever Powder - Tower \" .\nGrad D: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad B: And maybe some model will tell us , some GPS module , in the mobile scenario where the person is at the moment . And um we 've sort of gone through that once before in the Deep Mail project and we noticed that first of all what are {disfmarker} I should 've brought some slides , but what our {disfmarker} So here 's the tower . Think of this as a two - dimensional representation of the tower . And our system led people here , to a point where they were facing a wall in front of the tower . There is no entrance there , but it just happens to be the closest point of the road network to the geometric center Because that 's how the algorithm works . So we took out that part of the road network as a hack and then it found actually the way to the entrance . which was now the closest point of the road network to\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK , geometric center . But what we actually observed in Heidelberg is that most people when they want to go there they actually don't want to enter , because it 's not really interesting . They wanna go to a completely different point where they can look at it and take a picture .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: And so what uh uh a s you s let 's say a simple parse from a s from an utterance won't really give us is what the person actually wants . Does he wanna go there to see it ? Does he wanna go there now ? Later ? How does the person wanna go there ? Is that person more likely to want to walk there ? Walk a scenic route ? and so forth . There are all kinds of decisions that we have identified in terms of getting to places and in terms of finding information about things . And we are constructing {disfmarker} and then we 've identified more or less the extra - linguistic parameters that may f play a role . Information related to the user and information related to the situation . And we also want to look closely on the linguistic information that what we can get from the utterance . That 's part of why we implant these intentions in the data collection to see whether people actually phrase things differently whether they want to enter in order to buy something or whether they just wanna go there to look at it . And um so the idea is to construct uh um suitable interfaces and a belief - net for a module that actually tries to guess what the underlying intention {pause} was . And then enrich or augment the M - three - L structures with what it thought what more it sort of got out of that utterance . So if it can make a good suggestion , \" Hey ! \" you know , \" that person doesn't wanna enter . That person just wants to take a picture , \" cuz he just bought film , or \" that person wants to enter because he discussed the admission fee before \" . Or \" that person wants to enter because he wants to buy something and that you usually do inside of buildings \" and so forth . These ah these types of uh these bits of additional information are going to be embedded into the M - three - L structure in an {disfmarker} sort of subfield that we have reserved . And if the action planner does something with it , great . If not you know , then that 's also something um that we can't really {disfmarker} at least we {comment} want to offer the extra information . We don't really {disfmarker} um we 're not too worried .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad B: I mean {disfmarker} t s Ultimately if you have {disfmarker} if you can offer that information , somebody 's gonna s do something with it sooner or later . That 's sort of part of our belief .\nGrad E: What was he saying ?\nGrad B: Um , for example , right now I know the GIS from email is not able to calculate these viewpoints . So that 's a functionality that doesn't exist yet to do that dynamically ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: but if we can offer it that distinction , maybe somebody will go ahead and implement it . Surely nobody 's gonna go ahead and implement it if it 's never gonna be used , so . What have I forgotten about ? Oh yeah , how we do it ,\nProfessor F: Well th uh\nGrad B: yeah that 's the\nProfessor F: No no . It 's a good time to pause . I s I see {pause} questions on peoples ' faces , so why don't {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh\n",
      "Professor F: let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} Let 's hear {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Well the obvious one would be if {disfmarker} if you envision this as a module within SmartKom , where exactly would that Sit ? That 's the d\nGrad B: um {disfmarker} so far I 've thought of it as sort of adding it onto the modeler knowledge module .\nPhD A: OK , yeah .\nGrad B: So this is one that already adds additional information to the\nGrad D: Hmm .\nPhD A: Makes perfect sense . Yes .\n",
      "Grad D: Hmm , ah .\nGrad B: but it could sit anywhere in the attention - recognition I mean basically this is what attention - recognition literally sort of can {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Well it 's supposed to do . Yeah\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: That 's what it should do .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Right ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: yeah .\nGrad D: Huh .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Well f from my understanding of what the people at Phillips were originally trying to do doesn't seem to quite fit into SmartKom currently so what they 're really doing right now is only selecting among the alternatives , the hypotheses that they 're given enriched by the domain knowledge and the um discourse modeler and so on .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nPhD A: So if {disfmarker} if this is additional information that could be merged in by them .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nPhD A: And then it would be available to action planning and {disfmarker} and others .\nGrad B: Yeah . the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: let 's {disfmarker} let 's That w OK that was one question . Is there other {disfmarker} other things that cuz {pause} we wanna not Pa - pass over any {pause} you know , questions or concerns that you have .\nPhD A: Well there 're {disfmarker} there 're two levels of {disfmarker} of giving an answer and I guess on both levels I don't have any um further questions .\nGrad D: Mmm . Mmm .\n",
      "PhD A: uh the {disfmarker} the two levels will be as far as I 'm concerned as {pause} uh standing here for the generation module\nGrad D: Mmm .\nPhD A: and the other is {disfmarker} is my understanding of what SmartKom uh is supposed to be\nProfessor F: Right .\nPhD A: and I {disfmarker} I think that fits in perfectly\nProfessor F: So {disfmarker} well , let me {disfmarker} Let me s {pause} expand on that a little bit from the point of view of the generation .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So the idea is that we 've actually got this all laid out an and we could show it to you ig um Robert didn't bring it today but there 's a {disfmarker} a belief - net which is {disfmarker} There 's a first cut at a belief - net that {disfmarker} that doesn't {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} isn't fully uh instantiated , and in particular some of the {disfmarker} the combination rules and ways of getting the {disfmarker} the conditional probabilities aren't there . But we believe that we have laid out the fundamental decisions in this little space\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: and the things that influence them . So one of the decisions is what we call this AVE thing . Do you want to um access , view or enter a thing .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nProfessor F: So that 's a a discrete decision .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: There are only three possibilities and the uh {disfmarker} what one would like is for this uh , knowledge modeling module to add which of those it is and give it to the planner .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: But , uh th the current design suggests that if it seems to be an important decision and if the belief - net is equivocal so that it doesn't say that one of these is much more probable than the other , then an option is to go back and ask for the information you want .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Alright ? Now there are two ways one can go {disfmarker} a imagine doing that . For the debugging we 'll probably just have a {disfmarker} a drop - down menu and the {disfmarker} while you 're debugging you will just {disfmarker} OK . But for a full system , then one might very well formulate a query ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: give it to the dialogue planner and say this , you know ar are you know you {disfmarker} are you planning to enter ? Or whatever it {disfmarker} whatever that might be . So that 's {disfmarker} under that model then , There would be a {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} um a loop in which this thing would formulate a query ,\nPhD A: Yes .\nProfessor F: presumably give it to you . That would get expressed and then hopefully you know , you 'd get an answer {pause} back .\nPhD A: Yep .\n",
      "Professor F: And that would of course {disfmarker} the answer would have to be parsed .\nGrad D: Mmm . Yep .\nProfessor F: right and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yes .\nProfessor F: OK so , {pause} th {pause} that uh , We probably won't do this early on , because the current focus is more on the decision making and stuff like that .\nPhD A: Yep .\n",
      "Professor F: But While we 're on the subject I just wanted to give you a sort of head 's up that it could be that some months from now we said \" OK we 're now ready to try to close that loop \" in terms of querying about some of these decisions .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Yep . So {disfmarker} my suggestion then is that you um look into the currently ongoing discussion about how the action plans are supposed to look like . And they 're currently um Agreeing or {disfmarker} or in the process of agreeing on an X M L - ification of um something like a state - transition network of how dialogues would proceed . and {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} these um transition networks uh will be what the action planner interprets in a sense .\nProfessor F: Hmm . D did you know this Robert ?\nGrad B: uh Michael is doing that , right ?\n",
      "PhD A: Well uh Marcus Lerkult is actually implementing that stuff and Marcus and Michael together are um leading the discussion there , yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor F: So we ha we have to get in on that .\nPhD A: Yep .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: because um partly those are like X - schemas .\nPhD A: Definitely .\nProfessor F: the transition diagrams .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nProfessor F: And it may be that {disfmarker} that um we should early on make sure that they have the flexibility that we need .\n",
      "Grad B: Hmm . But they uh Have I understood this right ? They {disfmarker} they govern more or less the {disfmarker} the dialogue behavior or the action {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: It 's not really what you do with the content of the dialogue but it 's So , I mean there is this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this nice interf\nGrad D: uh , No , it 's {disfmarker} it 's also a quantrant uh uh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: i Is it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: So there 's ac so there {disfmarker} th the word \" action \" , OK , is {disfmarker} is what 's ambiguous here .\nGrad D: I think . Hmm .\nPhD A: Yes .\nProfessor F: So , um one thing is there 's an actual planner that tells the person in the tourist domain now ,\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor F: per tells the person how to go , \" First go here ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: first go there uh , you know , take a bus \" , whatever it is . So that 's that form of planning , and action , and a route planner and GIS , all sort of stuff . uh But I think that isn't what you mean .\n",
      "PhD A: No . No , in SmartKom terminology that 's um called a function that 's modeled by a function modeler . And it 's th that 's completely um encapsulated from th the dialogue system . That 's simply a functionality that you give data as in a query and then you get back from that mmm , a functioning model um which might be a planner or a VCR or whatever . um some result and that 's then {disfmarker} then used .\nProfessor F: Well , OK , so that 's what I thought . So action he action here means dia uh speech ac uh you know dialogue act .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , in that {disfmarker} in that sense\nGrad B: Mmm .\nPhD A: yes , dialogue act ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD A: yeah .\nProfessor F: Um , I think tha I think it 's not going to {disfmarker} I think that 's not going to be good enough . I I don what uh {disfmarker} what I meant by that . So I think the idea of having a , you know , transition diagram for the grammar of conversations is a good idea .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: OK ? And I think that we do hav definitely have to get in on it and find out {disfmarker} OK . But I think that um when {disfmarker} so , when you get to the tourist domain it 's not just an information retrieval system .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Clearly . Yes .\nProfessor F: Right ? So this i this is where I think this {disfmarker} people are gonna have to think this through a bit more carefully .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: So , if it 's only like in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the film and T V thing , OK , you can do this . And you just get information and give it to people . But what happens when you actually get them moving and so forth and so on\nPhD A: Yep .\nProfessor F: Uh , y y your {disfmarker} I d I think the notion of this as a self contained uh module you know th the functional module that {disfmarker} that interacts with {disfmarker} with where the tourism g stuff is going {comment} probably is too restrictive .\n",
      "PhD A: Yep .\nProfessor F: Now I dunno how much people have thought ahead to the tourist domain in this\nPhD A: Probably not enough , I mean an {disfmarker} another uh more basic point there is that the current um tasks and therefore th the concepts in this ac what 's called the action plan and what 's really the dialogue manager .\nProfessor F: Yeah\nPhD A: um is based on slots that have to be filled and the um kind of values in these slots would be fixed things like the a time or a movie title or something like this\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm . Right .\n",
      "PhD A: whereas in the a um tourist domain it might be an entire route . Set - based , or even very complex structured information in these slots\nProfessor F: Indeed . Right .\nPhD A: and I 'm not sure if {disfmarker} if complex slots of that type are really um being taken into consideration .\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD A: So that 's {disfmarker} that 's really something we\nProfessor F: Could you {disfmarker} could you put a message into the right place to see if we can at least ask that question ?\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Yep .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean nothing 's being completely settled there\nGrad B: rea yep\nPhD A: so this is really an ongoing discussion\nGrad B: Mm - hmm\nPhD A: and that 's\nGrad B: yeah and um it might actually OK ah also {disfmarker} because um again in in Deep Map we have faced and implemented those problems once already\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: maybe we can even shuffle some know how from there to to Markus and Michael .\nPhD A: Yes .\nGrad D: Mmm .\nPhD A: Yep .\n",
      "Grad B: And um mmm You don't know {disfmarker} OK th I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll talk to Michael it 's what I do anyway . Who {disfmarker} How far is the uh the {disfmarker} the M - three - L specification for {disfmarker} for the la natural language input gone on the {disfmarker} the uh I haven't seen anything for the uh tourist path domain .\nGrad D: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's not defined yet .\nGrad B: And um you are probably also involved in that ,\n",
      "Grad D: Um {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad B: right ? uh together with the usual gang , um Petra and Jan\nGrad D: Mmm . Yeah , there 's a meeting next next week I think\n",
      "Grad B: OK because That 's {disfmarker} Those are the {disfmarker} I think the {disfmarker} the true key issues is how does the whatever comes out of the language input pipeline look like and then what the action planner does with it {disfmarker} and how that is uh specified . I didn't think of the internal working of the uh the action planner and the language {disfmarker} uh the function model as sort of relevant . Because what {disfmarker} what they take is sort of this {disfmarker} this fixed representation of a {disfmarker} of an intention .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: And that can be as detailed or as crude as you want it to be . But um the internal workings of of the {disfmarker} whether you know there 're dialogue {disfmarker} action planners that work with belief - nets that are action planners that work with you know state automata . So that shouldn't really matter too much . I mean it does matter because it does have to keep track of you {disfmarker} we are on part six of r a route that consists of eight steps and so forth\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , th there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} I think there are a lot of reasons why it matters . OK , so that uh , for example , the i it 's the action planner is going to take some spec and s make some suggestions about what the user should do . What the user says after that is going to be very much caught up with what the action planner told it .\nPhD A: Yes .\nProfessor F: If the {disfmarker} If the parser and the language end doesn't know what the person 's been told OK th it 's you 're making your life much more difficult than it has to be .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Right ? So if someone says the best t to uh go there is by taxi , let 's say . Now the planner comes out and says you wanna get there fast , take a taxi . OK . And the language end doesn't know that . OK , there 's all sorts of dialogues that won't make any sense which would be just fine .\nPhD A: hmm\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: uh\n",
      "PhD A: That would b but that {disfmarker} I think that {disfmarker} that uh point has been realized and it 's {disfmarker} it 's not really um been defined yet but there 's gonna be some kind of feedback and input from uh the action planner into all the analysis modules , telling them what to expect and what the current state of the discourse is .\nGrad D: Mmm .\nPhD A: Beyond what 's currently being implemented which is just word lists .\nProfessor F: Yeah , but this is not the st this is not just the state of the discourse .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Of {disfmarker} of special interest .\nProfessor F: This is actually the state of the plan . That 's why\nPhD A: Yes , Yes , Mm - hmm yeah .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: OK so it {disfmarker} z and s uh , It 's great if people are already taking that into account . But One would have t have to see {disfmarker} see the details .\nPhD A: The specifics aren't really there yet . Yes . So , there 's work to do there .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . So anyway , Robert , that 's why I was thinking that\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: um I think you 're gonna need {disfmarker} We talked about this several times that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the input end is gonna need a fair amount of feedback from the planning end .\nPhD A: hmm\nProfessor F: In {disfmarker} in one of these things which are {disfmarker} are much more continuous than the {disfmarker} just the dialogue over movies and stuff .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Mmm .\nPhD A: And even on {disfmarker} on a more basic level the {disfmarker} the action planner actually needs to be able to have um an expressive power that can deal with these structures . And not just um say um {disfmarker} um the dialogue um will consist of ten possible states and th these states really are fixed in {disfmarker} in a certain sense .\nProfessor F: Hmm ?\nPhD A: You have to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Would there be any chance of getting the terminology changed so that the dialogue planner was called a \" dialogue planner \" ? Because there 's this other thing The o There 's this other thing in {disfmarker} in the tourist domain which is gonna be a route planner\nPhD A: That 'd be nice .\nProfessor F: or {disfmarker} It 's really gonna be an action planner . And {comment} i it {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It oughta be called a {disfmarker} a dialogue manager . cuz that 's what everybody else calls it .\nProfessor F: I would think ,\n",
      "Grad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Huh ? So , s So what would happen if we sent a note saying \" Gee we 've talked about this and couldn't we change this uh th the whole word ? \" I have no idea how complicated these things are .\nGrad B: Probably close to impossible .\nPhD A: Depends on who you talk to how . We 'll see . I 'll go check , cause I completely agree . Yeah ,\nGrad D: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD A: and I think this is just for historical reasons within uh , the preparation phase of the project and not because somebody actually believes it ought to be action planner . So if there is resistance against changing it , that 's just because \" Oh , We don't want to change things . \" That {disfmarker} that not deep reason\nProfessor F: OK , anyway . I if {disfmarker} if that c in persists then we 're gonna need another term . for the thing that actually does the planning of the uh routes and whatever we are doing for the tourist .\nGrad B: That 's external services .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , but that 's not g eh tha That ha has all the wrong connotations . it 's {disfmarker} it sounds like it 's you know stand alone . It doesn't interact , it doesn't That 's why I 'm saying . I think you can't {disfmarker} it 's fine for looking up when T you know when the show 's on TV . You go to th but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's really {disfmarker} really wrong headed for something that you {disfmarker} that has a lot of state , it 's gonna interact co in a complicated way with the uh understanding parts .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah . Yeah I think just the {disfmarker} the spatial planner and the route planner I showed you once the interac action between them among them in the deep map system\nProfessor F: Right .\nGrad B: so {disfmarker} a printout of the communication between those two fills up I don't know how many pages\nPhD A: Hmm\nGrad B: and that 's just part of how do I get to one place . It 's really insane . and uh but um so this is um definitely a good point to get uh Michael into the discussion . Or to enter his discussion , actually .\nPhD A: Yeah , Marcus .\n",
      "Grad B: That 's the way around . Markus\nPhD A: Wh - where 's ?\nGrad B: Is he new in the {disfmarker} in the ?\nPhD A: Yeah , he 's {disfmarker} he started um I think January .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD A: And he 's gonna be responsible for the implementation of this action planner . Dialogue manager .\nGrad B: Is he gonna continue with the old {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} thing ?\nPhD A: No , no he 's completely gonna rewrite everything . In Java .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: OK so that 's interesting .\nGrad B: Yes I was just {disfmarker} that 's my next question\nPhD A: hmm\nGrad B: whether we 're {disfmarker} we 're gonna stick to Prolog or not .\nPhD A: No . No , that 's gonna be phased out .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK But I do think the {disfmarker} the function modeling concept has a certain {disfmarker} makes sense in a {disfmarker} in a certain light\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: because the action planner should not be {disfmarker} or the dialogue manager in that case should not um w have to worry about whether it 's interfacing with um something that does route planning in this way or that way\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: I I totally agree .\nGrad B: huh ,\nProfessor F: Sure .\nGrad B: it j\nProfessor F: Yeah I {disfmarker} I agree . There is {disfmarker} there 's a logic to dialogue which {disfmarker} which is {disfmarker} is separable . I Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: and it {disfmarker} cant {disfmarker} sort of formulate its what it wants in a {disfmarker} in a rather a abstract uh way , you know f \" Find me a good route for this . \"\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: It doesn't really have to worry ab how route planner A or how route planner B actually wants it . So this is {disfmarker} seemed like a good idea . In the beginning .\n",
      "Professor F: It 's tricky . It 's tricky because one could well imagine {disfmarker} I think it will turn out to be the case that uh , this thing we 're talking about , th the extended n uh knowledge modeler will fill in some parameters about what the person wants . One could well imagine that the next thing that 's trying to fill out the detailed uh , route planning , let 's say , will also have questions that it would like to ask the user . You could well imagine you get to a point where it 's got a {disfmarker} a choice to make and it just doesn't know something .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: And so y you would like it t also be able to uh formulate a query . And to run that back through uh . the dialogue manager and to the output module and back around .\nGrad B: hmm\nProfessor F: And a I a a good design would {disfmarker} would allow that to happen .\nGrad B: a lot of , yeah\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: If {disfmarker} if you know if {disfmarker} if you can't make it happen then you {disfmarker} you do your best .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah but that doesn't necessarily contradict um an architecture where there really is a pers a def well - defined interface . and {disfmarker} and\nProfessor F: I totally agree . But {disfmarker} but what it nee but th what the point is the in that case the dialogue manager is sort of event driven . So the dialogue manager may think it 's in a dialogue state of one sort ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: and this {disfmarker} one of these planning modules comes along and says \" hey , right now we need to ask a question \" . So that forces the dialogue manager to change state .\n",
      "PhD A: Yes\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD A: Sure ,\nProfessor F: It could be y\nPhD A: ye yeah I {disfmarker} I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's the um concept that people have ,\nProfessor F: Yeah , yeah it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker}\nPhD A: yep .\nProfessor F: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: And {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} the underlying idea of course is that there is something like kernel modules with kernel functionality that you can plug uh certain applications like tourist information or um the home scenario with uh controlling a VCR and so on . And then extend it to an arbitrary number of applications eventually . So {disfmarker} wouldn't That 's an additional reason to have this well - defined interface and keep these things like uh tourist information external .\nProfessor F: Oh , yeah , yeah .\nPhD A: And then call it external services .\nGrad B: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: But of course the {disfmarker} the more complex {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah , there is another philosophical issue that I think you know you can {disfmarker} evade\nPhD A: yep .\n",
      "Grad B: but , at at least it makes sense to me that sooner or later uh {disfmarker} a service is gonna come and describe itself to you . and that 's sort of what Srini is working on in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the DAML uh project where um you {disfmarker} you find a GIS about {disfmarker} that gives you information on Berkeley ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: and it 's {disfmarker} it 's gonna be there and tell you what it can do and how it wants to do things . and so you can actually interface to such a system without ever having met it before and the function modeler and a self - description of the um external service haggle it out\nPhD A: Hmm .\nGrad B: and you can use the same language core , understanding core to interface with planner - A , planner - B , planner - C and so forth .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nGrad D: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Which is , you know , uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} utopian {disfmarker} completely utopian at the moment , but slowly , you know , getting into the realm of the uh contingent .\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: But we are facing of course much more um realistic problems . And language input for example , is of course uh crucial you know also when you do the sort of deep understanding analysis that we envision . um Then of course , the uh um , you know what is it {disfmarker} poverty of the stimulus , yet the m uh the less we get of that the better . and um so we {disfmarker} we 're thinking , for example how much syntactic analysis actually happens already in the parser . and whether one could interface to that potentially\n",
      "Grad D: Hmm . Yeah , are there currently is uh no syntactic analysis but in the next release there will be some .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nGrad D: unless\nProfessor F: How 's it {disfmarker}\nGrad D: and it 's um uh you can access this\nProfessor F: S so uh y we {disfmarker} we looked at the e current pattern matching thing .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nProfessor F: And as you say it 's just a surface pattern matcher . Uh , So what are {disfmarker} what are the plans roughly ?\n",
      "Grad D: um it 's to {disfmarker} to integrate and syntactic analysis . and um add some more features like segmentation . So then an utter more than one utterance is {disfmarker} There um there 's often uh pause between it and a segmentation occurs . um\nProfessor F: So , the um {disfmarker} So the idea is to uh {disfmarker} have a pa y y a particular {disfmarker}\nGrad D: yeah\n",
      "Professor F: Do you have a particular parser in mind ? Is it uh {disfmarker} partic d I mean have you thought through {disfmarker} ? Is it an HPSG parser ? Is it a whatever ?\nGrad D: No {disfmarker} no it 's {disfmarker} uh I think it 's it 's totally complicated for it 's just one {disfmarker} one person\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad D: and so I have to keep the {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Oh , you have to do it . You have to do it ,\nGrad D: Yeah ,\nProfessor F: yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: ah and so {vocalsound} things must be simpler\nProfessor F: I see ,\nGrad D: but uh , Miel syntactic analysis with um finite state transducers .\nProfessor F: so But the people at D F Yeah . People at DFKI have written a fair number of parsers . Other {disfmarker} you know , people over the years . uh have written various parsers at DFKI . None of them are suitable ? I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I d I 'm asking . I don't know .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , uh the problem is th that it has to be very fast because um if you want to for more than one path anywhere\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad D: what 's in the latches from the speech recognizer\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: so it 's speed is crucial . uh And they are not fast enough .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: And they also have to be very robust . cuz of um speech recognition errors and\n",
      "Professor F: OK . So , um {disfmarker} So there was a chunk parser in Verbmobil , that was one of the uh branchers . You know they {disfmarker} d th I c There were these various uh , competing uh syntax modules . And I know one of them was a chunk parser and I don't remember {pause} who did that .\nGrad B: A Alan ?\nGrad D: I think it 's that might , at Tuebingen I thought .\nProfessor F: Yeah I d I don't remember .\nGrad D: was {disfmarker} Do you know something about that ?\n",
      "PhD A: Tubingen was at least involved in putting the chunks together\nGrad D: In Tub - at {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I {disfmarker} can't quite recall whether they actually produced the chunks in the first place .\nGrad D: oh\nProfessor F: Uh . I see . Yeah , that 's right .\nPhD A: Or wh\nGrad D: Oh from {disfmarker} from Stuttgart ,\nProfessor F: There w That 's right . They w They had {disfmarker} There were {disfmarker} This was done with a two phase thing , where {comment} the chunk parser itself was pretty stupid\n",
      "Grad D: yeah , also\nProfessor F: and then there was a kind of trying to fit them together that h used more context .\nPhD A: Right . Yeah\nProfessor F: Right ?\nPhD A: Well you s and {disfmarker} and especially you did some {disfmarker} some um , l um was a learning - based approach which learned from a big corpus of {disfmarker} of trees .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: And yes the {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} the chunk parser was a finite - state machine that um Mark Light originally w worked on in {disfmarker} while he was in Tuebingen\nProfessor F: Right .\nPhD A: and then somebody else in Tuebingen picked that up . So it was done in Tuebingen , yeah . Definitely .\nProfessor F: But is that the kind of thing y It sounds like the kind of thing that you were thinking of .\nPhD A: Yeah I guess it 's similar .\nGrad D: yeah . yeah that 's In this direction , yes\nProfessor F: What ?\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , it 's in {disfmarker} in this direction .\nGrad B: The {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Hmm .\nGrad B: From Michael Strube , I 've heard very good stuff about the chunk parser that is done by FORWISS , uh , which is in embassy doing the parsing .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: So this is sort of {disfmarker} came as a surprise to me that you know , embassy s {comment} is featuring a nice parser but it 's {pause} what I hear . One could also look at that and see whether there is some synergy possible .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm , yeah , it would be very interesting , Mm - hmm . Mmm , yeah .\nGrad B: And they 're doing chunk parsing and it 's uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can give you the names of the people who do it there . But um . Then there is of course more ways of parsing things .\n",
      "Professor F: Of course . But {disfmarker} But uh given th the constraints , that you want it to be small and fast and so forth , my guess is you 're probably into some kind of chunk parsing . And uh I 'm not a big believer in this um statistical you know , cleaning up uh It {disfmarker} That seems to me kind of a last resort if uh you can't do it any other way . uh but I dunno .\nGrad D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: It may {disfmarker} i i may be that 's what you guys finally decide do . Uh . And have you looked {disfmarker} uh just {disfmarker} again for context {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: There is this {disfmarker} this one that they did at SRI some years ago {disfmarker} Fastus ?\nGrad D: um\nProfessor F: a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: yeah , I 've {disfmarker} I 've looked at it but {disfmarker} but it 's no {disfmarker} not much uh information available . I found ,\nProfessor F: ah !\nGrad D: but it 's also finite - state transducers , I thought .\nProfessor F: It is . Yeah . I mean {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it was pretty ambitious .\nGrad D: and\nProfessor F: And of course it was English oriented ,\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and Purely finite - state transducers are not so good for German since there 's um\nProfessor F: um w Right .\nGrad D: The word order is {disfmarker} is uh not fixed\nProfessor F: Yeah , I guess that 's the point is {disfmarker} is all the morphology and stuff . And English is all th all word order . And it makes a lot more sense .\nGrad D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: And {disfmarker} e Yeah , OK . Good point . So in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in German you 've got uh most of this done with\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Also it 's uh {disfmarker} it 's um {disfmarker} Yes , uh the um choice between uh this processing and that processing and my template matcher .\nProfessor F: Right . Right .\nGrad D: \nProfessor F: So what about Um Did y like Morfix ? a a e y you 've got stemmers ? Or is that something that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: Um , yeah but it 's all in the {disfmarker} in the lexicon . So it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: But did you have that ?\nGrad D: Yeah th the information is available .\nProfessor F: OK . I see . So , but {disfmarker}\nGrad D: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: So y you just connect to the lexicon\nGrad D: Yeah\nProfessor F: and uh at least for German you have all {disfmarker} all of the {disfmarker} uh the stemming information .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , we can , oh yeah . We have knowledge bases from {disfmarker} from Verbmobil system we can use\nProfessor F: Yep .\nGrad D: and so .\nProfessor F: Right . But it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it doesn't look like i you 're using it . I didn't n see it being used in the current template uh parser . I {disfmarker} I didn't see any Uh {disfmarker} of course we l actually only looked at the English .\nGrad D: It {disfmarker} um\nProfessor F: Did we look at the German ? I don't remember .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , but {disfmarker} but it 's used for {disfmarker} for stem forms .\nProfessor F: So w wha\nPhD A: n Well I think {disfmarker} I think there 's some misunderstanding here\nProfessor F: i\nPhD A: it 's {disfmarker} Morphix is not used on - line .\nGrad D: Oh , OK .\nPhD A: s so the lexicon might be derived by Morphix\nGrad D: What ?\n",
      "PhD A: but What {disfmarker} what 's happening on - line is just um um a {disfmarker} a retrieval from the lexicon which would give all the stemming information\nProfessor F: Right .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nProfessor F: Right .\nPhD A: so it would be a full foreign lexicon .\nProfessor F: And that 's what you have .\nPhD A: Yep .\nGrad D: Yeah\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad B: We threw out all the forms .\nProfessor F: What {disfmarker} uh I didn't reme\nGrad B: We threw out all the forms\nProfessor F: Huh ?\n",
      "Grad B: because , you know , English , well {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Oh OK , so it {disfmarker} yeah , s s I thought I 'd {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: So in German then you actually do case matching and things like in the {disfmarker} in the pattern matcher or not ?\nGrad D: um Not yet but it 's planned to do that .\nProfessor F: OK . Cuz I r I didn't reme I didn't think I saw it .\nGrad D: Yeah\n",
      "Professor F: Have we looked at the German ? Oh , I haven yeah that 's {disfmarker} getting it from the lexicon is just fine .\nPhD A: Sure , right .\nGrad D: Oh yes .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , yeah , yeah . No problem with that . um Yeah and here 's the case where the English and the German might really be significantly different . In terms of if you 're trying to build some fast parser and so forth and {disfmarker} You really might wanna do it in a significantly different way . I don't know . So you 've {disfmarker} you guys have looked at this ? also ? in terms of You know , w if you 're doing this for English as well as German Um Do you think now that it would be this {disfmarker} doing it similarly ?\n",
      "Grad D: um Yeah , it 's um I think it 's um yes , it 's {disfmarker} it 's um possible to {disfmarker} to do list processing . and Maybe this is um more adequate for English and in German um set processing is used .\nProfessor F: Set .\nGrad D: Maybe yeah . Some extensions uh have to be made . For {disfmarker} for a English version\nProfessor F: Mmm . OK . Interesting . Not easy .\nGrad B: Well there 's m I 'm sure there 's gonna be more discussion on that after your talk .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm ,\n",
      "Grad B: We 're just gonna foreshadow what we saw that\nGrad D: yeah .\nProfessor F: Right . Right .\nGrad B: and um\nProfessor F: Now actually , um Are you guys free at five ? Or {disfmarker} Do you have to go somewhere at five o ' clock tonight ? W in ten minutes ?\nGrad D: Ah {disfmarker}\nPhD A: uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I think we 're expect {disfmarker}\nGrad D: mmm . No . Oder there was an {disfmarker} talk ?\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , there {disfmarker} there 's the um practice talk .\nGrad D: uh Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor F: Great . So you 're going to that .\nPhD A: Yeah , that {disfmarker} that 's what we were planning to do .\nProfessor F: That 's good , because that will uh tell you a fair amount about The form of semantic construction grammar that we 're using .\nPhD A: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: so {disfmarker} So I th I think that probably as good an introduction as you 'll get .\nGrad D: Ah .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh to the form of {disfmarker} of uh {disfmarker} conceptual grammar that {disfmarker} that w we have in mind for this .\nGrad D: Mmm , ah .\nProfessor F: It won't talk particularly about how that relates to what uh Robert was saying at the beginning . But let me give you a very short version of this . So we talked about the fact that There 're going to be a certain number of decisions That you want the knowledge modeler to make , that will be then fed to the function module , that does uh , route planning . It 's called the \" route planner \" or something .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: So there are these decisions . And then one half of this we talked about at little bit is how if you had the right information , if you knew something about what was said and about th the something about was the agent a tourist or a native or a business person or uh young or old , whatever . That information , and also about the Uh , what we 're calling \" the entity \" , Is it a castle , is it a bank ? Is it a s town square , is it a statue ? Whatever . So all that kind of information could be combined into decision networks and give you decisions . But the other half of the problem is How would you get that kind of information from the parsed input ? So , um So what you might try to do is just build more templates , saying uh we 're trying to build a templ you know build a template that w uh somehow would capture the fact that he wants to take a picture .\n",
      "Grad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: OK ? And {disfmarker} and we could {disfmarker} you could do this . And it 's a small enough domain that probably you , you know {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: OK . You could do this . But uh from our point of view this is also a research project and there are a couple of people not here for various reasons who are doing doctoral dissertations on this ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: and the idea that we 're really after is a very deep semantics based on cognitive linguistics and the notion that there are a relatively small number of primitive conceptual schemas that characterize a lot of activity . So a typical one in this formulation is a container . So this is a static thing . And the notion is that all sorts of physical situations are characterized in terms of containers . Going in and out the portals and con\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: OK . But also , importantly for Lakoff and these guys is all sorts of metaphorical things are also characterized this way . You get in trouble and you know et cetera\nGrad D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor F: and so {disfmarker} s So , what we 're really trying to do is to map from the discourse to the conceptual semantics level . And from there to the appropriate decisions .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: So another one of these primitive , what are called \" image schemas \" , is uh goal seeking . So this a notion of a source , path , goal , trajector , possibly obstacles .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: And the idea is this is another conceptual primitive .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: And that all sorts of things , particularly in the tourist domain , can be represented in terms of uh source , path and goal . So the idea would be could we build an analyser that would take an utterance and say \" Aha ! th this utterance is talking about an attempt to reach a goal . The goal is this , the pers the , uh traveller is that , uh the sor w where we are at now is is this , they 've mentioned possible obstacles , et cetera . \" So th the {disfmarker} and this is an {disfmarker} again attempt to get very wide coverage . So if you can do this , then the notion would be that across a very large range of domains , you could use this deep conceptual basis as the interface .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: And then , uh The processing of that , both on the input end , recognizing that certain words in a language talk about containers or goals , et cetera , and on the output end , given this kind of information , you can then uh make decisions about what actions to take . Provides , they claim , a very powerful , general notion of deep semantics . So that 's what we 're really doing .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: And Nancy is going to {disfmarker} Her talk is going to be not about using this in applications , but about modeling how children might learn this kind of uh deep semantic grammar .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Yep , yep . And how do you envision um the {disfmarker} the um this deep semantic to be worked with . Would it be highly ambiguous if and then there would be another module that takes that um highly underspecified deep semantic construction and map it onto the current context to find out what the person really was talking about in that context . or {disfmarker} or a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Well that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's where the belief - net comes in . So th the idea is , let 's take this business about going to the Powder - Tower .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: So part of what you 'll get out of this will be the fact tha w if it works right , OK , that this is an agent that wants to go to this place and that 's their goal\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: and there will be additional situational information .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , OK ,\nPhD A: th\nProfessor F: part of it comes from the ontology . The tower is this kind of object .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah , OK .\nProfessor F: Part of it comes from the user model .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: And the idea of the belief - net is it combines the information from the dialogue which comes across in this general way ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: you know this is a {disfmarker} this is a goal seeking behavior , along with specific information from the ontology about the kinds of objects involved\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah OK , Yeah , yep yep yep yep\nProfessor F: and about the situation about \" Is it raining ? \" I don't know . Whatever it is . And so that 's the belief - net that we 've laid out .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: And so th the coupling to the situation comes in this model from , at th at th at the belief - net , combining evidence from the dialogue with the ontology with the situation .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nProfessor F: But Nancy isn't gonna talk about that ,\nPhD A: Yeah , oh yeah , I see ,\n"
    ],
    "length": 13795,
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  },
  {
    "id": 27,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Project Manager began functional design meeting with reviewed last meeting and looked at new project requirements. The group did a presentation and made discussion about conceptual remote control design. They decided to use the LCD screen in the design as it was popular for the market and hard to damage. Because of the high price of LCD, the group put up a backup design with buttons instead of LCD as a solution. After group discussion, remote control would be designed with buttons shape and functions such as channels selection and speech recognition.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Good morning , again .\nIndustrial Designer: One question .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Send .\nUser Interface: Choose a number ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Submit . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yep yep yep yep .\nProject Manager: All set ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Good . Okay . Let's see what we can find here . Okay . A very warm welcome again to everyone .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Um here we are already at our uh functional design meeting . Um and this is what we are going to do . The opening , which we are doing now , um and the special note , I'm project manager but on the meetings I'm also the secretary , which means I will make uh minutes as I did of the previous meeting .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And uh I also put these as fast as possible in the uh project folder , so you can see them and review what we have discussed . Um if I'm right , there are three presentations , I guess each one of you has prepared one ? Good .\nUser Interface: Yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: And um we will also take a look at new project requirements , um if you haven't heard about them yet . And then of course we have to take a decision on the remote control functions and we have some more time , forty minutes . But I think we will need it . Um well I don't know who wants to go first with his presentation .\nIndustrial Designer: I'll go first . Okay . I'll go first yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: You can go first , okay .\nUser Interface: Well .\nMarketing: Well , shall I go first with the users ?\nUser Interface: Well {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: I think {disfmarker} well okay no problem . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Is there an order ? I haven't {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: everybody already has his presentation ,\nMarketing: Ja precies , ja precies , ja precies\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} so you can adjust it . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: So . Huh ? Okay , um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And one question , uh your name Denni , is it with a\nMarketing: E_I_E_ .\n",
      "Project Manager: I_E_ {disfmarker} E_I_E_ , okay . Thank you .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay , um I wanted to explain the working design of the remote control . It's possibly very handy if you want to uh design one of those . Um {vocalsound} well so it basically works uh as I uh uh r wrote down uh in this uh little uh summary . Uh when you press a button , {vocalsound} uh that's when you do pr for example when you uh want to turn up the volume , um a little connection is made uh the the rubber uh {vocalsound} button just presses on a\nProject Manager: Sorry . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: on a little print plate uh which uh makes uh uh {vocalsound} a connection that uh gives the chips , uh which is uh mounted beneath those uh that plastic of a rubber button . Uh senses that a connection has been made , and know and knows what button you pressed , becau uh for example the the volume up or volume down button . Um uh the the chip uh makes a Morse code uh like uh signal which uh then is si uh signalled {vocalsound} to uh several transistors which makes uh which sends the signal to a little let . You know what a let is ?\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} And that makes uh the the infra-red lights signal which is sent to the television set . Uh which has a sensor in it to uh sense uh the signal of the infra-red . That's basically uh how it works . Um the findings uh uh that I found uh searching up some uh detailed information about the remote controls , are that uh they are very easy to produce , uh it is pis uh it's possible to uh make them in mass production because it is as eas it is as easy as uh printing a page , uh just uh fibreglass plate um is b uh is uh covered with uh some uh coatings and uh uh {vocalsound} and chips .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh and the technology's already available , we don't have to find out how remote controls uh have to work or uh how that how uh to make some chips that are possible to uh to to transmit those uh signals . Uh I made a little uh uh animation of {vocalsound} about how a tran our uh remote controller works .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: Oh right .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Animation . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} we tel\n",
      "User Interface: There is something turning .\nIndustrial Designer: There .\nProject Manager: Yeah , it's a little bug it's in the in the smart board . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Uh well\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: the sub-component , I suppose that you understand what a sub-component is , is f in this example it's the button . Uh when it is pressed down , um , the switch is ter is uh is switched on , so with uh the wire is sent to the to the chip in uh co-operation with the battery of course , because to make uh a a signal possible you have to have some sort of uh li uh a d ad uh electronic uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Infrared light .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes , uh , okay . Um w after it's being composed by the chip uh the signal uh is transported uh to the infra-red bulb , and from there it signals a Morse code-like signal to the to the b to the bulb in uh in the television set . Okay . S Uh I wrote down some personal preferences about uh the remote control . Of course it is very handy if the remote control is hand held , so you don't have to uh uh wind it up or something , or just is it's it's very light to uh to make uh to use it . Uh I personally uh pref prefer that uh it would be p uh come available in the various colours , and uh easy to use buttons . But I suppose that the one of the other team members uh uh thought of that uh too . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , I've got it there too . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: And it is possible for several designs and um easy to use b uh sorry , easy to use buttons . Perhaps soft touch , uh touch screen uh buttons because uh the rubber buttons are always uh uh they uh slightly uh they can be slightly damaged ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: uh so the numbers on the buttons are not possible uh to read anymore . And uh well as I said uh before th uh we can uh make several designs . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay , well , that's my contribution to this meeting , and uh\nMarketing: To this meeting . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , thank you .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: two of these this meeting . So .\nUser Interface: Shall I go uh next ?\nProject Manager: Yep .\nUser Interface: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: Please .\nUser Interface: So .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Smoking .\n",
      "User Interface: Well uh , my name's {gap} , and I looked at uh technical functions design of the remote . Uh I did this by uh looking at examples of other remote controls , of how they uh they look , and information from the web that I found . Um well what I found was that uh th the actual use of the remote control is to send messages to television set , how you uh d what you described uh just early . And this can be all sorts of medsa messages , turn it on , turn it off , uh change the channel , adjust volume , that kind of thing . Uh play video , teletext , but also t uh play C_D_ if you use it your C_D_ player the remote control will that one . There are some uh examples of remote controls . You can see they are very different . The one has got all the functions that you could possibly need and an lot of uh buttons etcetera . And the other is uh more user friendly , little with big buttons . And uh not n all the the the the stuff you can do with it , but uh the the essential stuff is there . Um {vocalsound} I guess you could better y you should look at a a user centred uh approach , because the customers have to use them and and if they don't think it's usable they won't uh buy it . A lot of buttons they may think from I don't need s as much as that . Uh , well perf personal preferences is is uh a simple remote , with uh the basic functions that you can need that you could use . But uh keep in mind the new functions of T_V_ what we discussed earlier , split screen and uh is that a function that you should have ? Because all the T_V_s will have them . Or because of only a few and isn't really necessary . And then uh make it {disfmarker} I would make so that you can could uh use it on more than one appliance . If you have one that uh uh does with the vi the the video , it could also work with uh with the stereo , because play is play and stop stop and that sort of thing . The shu c you could reuse the buttons so that you don't have to have a lot of buttons for uh anything . And it should be a user friendly , clear buttons , and not too much . And that is my presentation .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , thank you .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: 'Kay . Check . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: You must still have it open .\nMarketing: Kijke {gap} 'Kay , so . {vocalsound} We're going to j discuss the functional requirements of the remote , that m that means that functions user n want to have on the remote control , or just {disfmarker} Yeah , and the users , actually .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: The methods I I prefer is we're going to look which section of the users we are going to focus a l on more . Are the younger people going to buy the remote control or the elderly people ? And then {disfmarker} tho that section we're going to focus and adjust the remote more to that section than the whole user section . Okay . Some data . Younger people , from sixteen to thir forty five um years are more interested in fj features like L_C_D_ screens , speech recognition e etcetera . And we possess about two third of the market from in that range of age . The elderly people , from forty five years to sixty five years are not that much interested in features , and we possess less than two third , that's two fifth , of the market share in that area . {gap} Goed so .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nMarketing: 'Kay . Findings . Fifty percent of the users lose their remote often .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So we don't have to make it very small , like uh like a mobile phone or something , but some somewhat bi bigger than small , so you don't lose it that much anymore . {vocalsound} Seventy five percent of the users also find it ugly ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: and fif seventy five of the users zap a lot , so the buttons sh should be that small , or shouldn't be that complex because we have to search for the buttons , which one are you going to use . Next . Important issues about the remote . I think it would be better with a personal reference , but okay . Remote control has to have to have a low power usage , because s w seventy five percent of the users only zap one time an hour , so the power usage is also one one time an hour , or so , with a high power usage we would use a lot of but batteries . The volume button and the channel buttons are the two most important buttons on the remote control , so those {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} those have to h be find very easily . And have to be somewhat like bigger etcetera . It has also be {disfmarker} have to find easily when the label is gone . My colleague also announced it that labels should be scratched off\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Hmm .\nMarketing: or would be s uh {gap} senden {gap}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: okay . {vocalsound} So uh if that's k uh if that's the problem , you also have to find it easily on the remote . Buttons . Like what all colleagues said , have to have to be minimalized . or should be covered , or in L_C_D_ screen . L_C_D_ screen is easy because we have the L_C_D_ screen , we have the various options . Put one option and then you have the all the buttons of that options , so the other options would be gone . And you don't see the buttons . So L_C_D_ screens should be easy , but an L_C_D_ screen , the problem with the L_ sc L_C_D_ screen is that elderly people fr from forty five to for sixty five years don't use the L_C_D_ screen a lot . So we have to that keep that in mind that if you're going to implement L_C_D_ screen , you don't have to make it that hard to learn or to use .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh L_C_D_ screen as in uh touch screen ?\nMarketing: Yeah , touch screen , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: The last but not least , younger people are more critical about the features . Because they use the remote control often more often , and are more technical than the ol older people . And the older people spend more money , and easily on a remote control .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: 'Kay .\n",
      "Marketing: So we have to keep in mind to to focus not a lot {disfmarker} not that much on the younger pep younger people , but also somewhat on the elderly people . And on my personal preferences , I don't have any mo more time to come with that ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: but like I said , L_C_D_ screen is easily to use\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: because you have {disfmarker} you can implement a lot of buttons in one remote with not that much buttons . And it should be easy to use . Especially the volume buttons , the channel buttes buttons and the number buttons to zap through the channels . And that is it .\nProject Manager: Okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: thank you .\nUser Interface: Oh right . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um , well thank you all , huh . {vocalsound} I dunno uh did everyone receive an email with uh the new project requirements ?\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} No . Res I did not .\nProject Manager: No ? Well ,\nUser Interface: Perhaps the rest ?\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nProject Manager: then I think it's a good thing that I made a separate slide of them\nMarketing: Ja , {gap}\nProject Manager: so you can all read them . Oh , well not in this presentation . Hmm\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Should be in there . Well , I can tell you them uh from my laptop . Um teletext does {disfmarker} has become outdated since the popularity of the internet .\nUser Interface: Oh . Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} So that's uh the first thing we I think we should pay less attention to uh teletext . Uh the remote control should only be used for the television , otherwise the project becomes more complex , which endangers the time to market , and of course would make it more costly , I think . Um our current customers are within the age group of forty plus , and new product should reach a new market with customers that are younger than forty , and you talked about that before . And uh a last point , but also very important , our corporate image should stay recognisable in our products , which means that our uh corporate colour and slogan must be implemented in the new design . So we have to keep that in mind . Um well uh according to our agenda it's then time to take a decision on the remote control functions . So , who has any idea about what should be on it , and what shouldn't ?\n",
      "User Interface: Well you said it should only uh work with one appliance ?\nMarketing: Be television .\nUser Interface: Or with one uh d che only the T_V_ ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Only be used for television .\nUser Interface: And the video also , or not uh ? {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Well it says only for television here , huh .\nMarketing: Only the television .\nUser Interface: Oh . Alright . Okay . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Makes it a lot easier , huh ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: So yeah , then you can yeah . Requirements , no ? Functions .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Then it should have uh on , off ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah for {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: and uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Standby options ,\nMarketing: Yeah , the basics then by a volume , channel , one till two zero numbers on it ,\nIndustrial Designer: yeah ? Uh yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . And per perhaps uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: oh teletext doesn't have to be ?\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: Um other functions .\n",
      "User Interface: Well uh uh yes yes s sh A button where you can uh change from one number to two numbers .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah I had {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Two s two two digits ,\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Can you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: oh okay .\nUser Interface: Don't know if that's got a name ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean . Yeah .\nUser Interface: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: I think it's I think it's easy to implement a button with a s s what which especially do that , because some T_V_s , if you press the t one and then the two , it be between five secs it make twelve ,\nIndustrial Designer: It makes it twelve , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . S\nIndustrial Designer: Indeed . Okay .\nMarketing: and that's that's not relaxed\nIndustrial Designer: Well , not really {vocalsound}\nMarketing: to user .\nIndustrial Designer: And and there are some models that don't uh accommodate that function . So\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: d uh wh the Philip's television makes it possible in that indeed to uh press one and then two to make uh the uh tj to reach channel twelve .\nMarketing: So that it {vocalsound} easy and fast .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: But uh all the television makes uh use of those button where you first press that button and then press two digits to uh to get\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah , so you should have that one on .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh yeah , think so .\nMarketing: Our main targets' age are ? were ? Forty five plus , or ?\nUser Interface: Mute misschien also .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh well\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: new product should reach a market with customers that are younger than forty , and now we have current customers uh of forty plus .\n",
      "Marketing: Forties , okay because {vocalsound} because younger people as Uh younger people have now , sixteen till to twenty five age , are f eighty one percent interested in L_C_D_ screen . From twenty six to thirty five have sixty six percent , and thirty six to forty five , fifty five percent , so I think to um {disfmarker} Because on most recog remote controls um the print plate will be broken how much , two years . You have to press h very hard to go to the next channel .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: With the L_C_D_ screen it's easier because you only have to wipe the screen to uh {disfmarker} for fingerprint ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , we we could yeah . But I think that uh that collides with our mission to make it very cheap .\nMarketing: and then you can use it again .\nIndustrial Designer: Because L_C_D_ screens are very expensive .\nMarketing: Yeah , okay .\nUser Interface: An\nIndustrial Designer: A touch screen uh probably uh even more .\nMarketing: Yeah but a {disfmarker} you don't know {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So ,\nMarketing: True .\nIndustrial Designer: true , true .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: But uh {disfmarker} Well um is it possible to make an L_C_D_ screen uh , how was the information ?\nMarketing: Yeah , it only says that this perce percentage like L_C_D_ screen . Because , yeah and it says that younger age between sixteen and forty five highly interesting features more critical .\nIndustrial Designer: So perhaps we should we should focus on that L_C_D_ screen .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} And if the only f Yeah , because our target is sixteen to forty five .\nUser Interface: But , do you {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah but uh will we not uh exceed our uh our uh production uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah you don't know how much it costs . Yeah , you don't know how much it costs , the L_C_D_ screen .\nIndustrial Designer: Is it possible to find out , anyway ?\nMarketing: No , I don't have any costs here ,\nIndustrial Designer: You know ?\nMarketing: I only have percentages .\n",
      "User Interface: But if you would do an L_C_D_ screen do we have don don't you have any buttons ? Or because if it only directs at the T_V_ , then you only have uh I don't know what you want to do with the L_C_D_ screen .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: No , an L_C_D_ screen's just like uh like a drawn here . Um just uh displays several buttons ,\nUser Interface: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: for example um if you wanted the minimal uh use b uh buttons , such as channel and volume , you just h uh displays four buttons on the screen\n",
      "User Interface: Oh right , so you can {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and it's possible to p uh press them down , just like a touch screen .\nUser Interface: Oh , yeah alright . So you can adjust which buttons you want on that s screen .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , we can make it possible to do that , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , if you want to adjust , like for example , adjust the audio settings , you press audio on the touchscreen\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah .\nMarketing: and you get the buttons for audio settings ,\nUser Interface: Yeah alright , oh right .\nMarketing: so the other buttons are gone .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: So we're going for an L_C_D_ screen ?\nUser Interface: Yeah . Would be yeah .\nMarketing: I think it's the most easier thing ,\nIndustrial Designer: That's my uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And hoping that when we produce a lot it won't be too expensive .\nMarketing: yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well we had twelve fifty , I guess , for uh production ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: No . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Twelve fifty .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um .\n",
      "User Interface: Any guesses ? {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Well I suppose wi if the mar if our um {vocalsound} if the i if the young people are interested in L_C_D_ screens , we should make 'em .\nMarketing: Highly .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And if that is our d uh market share to uh and our goal to uh deliver those uh remote controls {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: But {disfmarker} But he also said that we should not only focus on the younger people , but also on the older , and will they use it if it only has an L_C_D_ screen ?\nMarketing: Yeah , but {disfmarker} Um , s forty six to forty five , thirty three percent , and sixty fifty six to sixty five twelve percent .\nUser Interface: Oh , so still a little bit people {disfmarker}\nMarketing: But our our our what's it , project requirements are the new products should be reached for new markets , to customers that are younger than forty .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah that's right . But you don't want to alienate the other uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , that not now , but , so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: But if they also buy it then it's alright . I guess .\nMarketing: Yeah , but market share fro for for forty years and younger is higher than that of sixty five and younger .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Alright .\nProject Manager: Okay , so L_C_D_ it is ?\nUser Interface: An Yes .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . It's treasure .\nProject Manager: And what else ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I hope we uh h and let's hope to reach those uh those sales .\nMarketing: Yeah , i i if it {disfmarker} Yeah , if it costs {disfmarker} gets too much , too expensive , then yeah , we should be sticking to rubber buttons .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , can you um uh s I think that that they will send you some information about uh the cost of L_C_D_ uh screens .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: N nothing , no costs at all .\nUser Interface: But perhaps later ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh so if you uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: so uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , so if you uh you receive an email about that , uh can you post it in the {disfmarker} or shouldn't we post that in uh our projects mail uh folder .\nMarketing: Yeah , in {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I think that should yeah {disfmarker} I think we all get the costs of everything .\nUser Interface: I don't {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Because you are the the Marketing uh Expert .\nMarketing: Yeah , okay , I'll I'll post it .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well perhaps we should have a backup plan that we would use buttons if it's uh {vocalsound} too expensive .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah sure , sure .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah , okay . But for now it's L_C_D_ . Okay .\nMarketing: Okay , L_C_D_ , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Then you have the seventy five percent of users find it r ugly .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: The L_C_D_ ? Oh that's a bit of a problem . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , and eighty percent of the users would spend more money with a when a remote would look fancy .\nUser Interface: Oh , that's a bit of a problem .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Tha i l i it'll look fancy with L_C_D_ screen . {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It's looks fancy one yeah , of L_C_D_ screen .\nUser Interface: Yeah , but they don't they don't like it .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: They think it's ugly . When it has an L_C_D_ screen .\nMarketing: Yeah , just a {disfmarker} the plain remotes , not not specific L_C_D_ remotes .\nUser Interface: Oh , alright , I thought that you said that .\nProject Manager: Yeah , and maybe you can make something fancy out of an L_C_D_ remote ,\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: because it's new , as far as I know . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , of course .\nIndustrial Designer: And then not {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: And then you have the other thing , that seventy five percent zap a lot , but that's not a f question with the L_C_D_ screen .\nIndustrial Designer: Um . Yeah .\nMarketing: Only thing you have to do is wipe the screen off once each time , to get all the fingerprints off it .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Okay ?\nProject Manager: Okay , what else does our remote need ?\nUser Interface: A mute button .\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mute button .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: I think . And {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} The most important things on a f on an on an uh remote control are channel selection , volume con selection ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: and power s power usage .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: And a teletext , but that is not of the question .\nUser Interface: But {disfmarker} But shouldn't you put a button of {disfmarker} for teletext on the {disfmarker} for the people who want to use it ?\nMarketing: Other things are {disfmarker} Sorry ?\n",
      "User Interface: Remembering we have got a big remote that you have to fill . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , it could be . Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Yeah , and we could make an a a separate menu on the L_C_D_ uh screen for teletext .\nMarketing: Yeah , teletext .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And there's also a {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And other other less important things are screen settings , audio settings , and channel settings ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , they are less important , but I think they should be there ,\n",
      "Marketing: Less important .\nUser Interface: or not ?\nMarketing: Yeah , should be there ,\nIndustrial Designer: A sh\nMarketing: but not press {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: but in a sub sub-menu or something like that .\nMarketing: Yeah , sub-menu , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh I think it's also important to uh make it possible to um how do you call it in English , uh , to not use batteries , and use ac uh bat uh {gap} batteries to uh to be {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Like with a with a mouse , you have not , yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: yeah yeah sure . Indeed . So uh you can mount uh the the the uh\nMarketing: Yeah , in a breath it's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: uh the remote control to um\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Charted .\nUser Interface: We should think of the twelve fifty we have\nIndustrial Designer: to refill the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nUser Interface: I don't know how much that's going to uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: but we don't we don't have any costs now ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Okay ,\n",
      "Marketing: so {disfmarker} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: because i uh when you get an L_C_D_ screen , you run it on batteries ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: the batteries will be uh empty very soon , very fast .\nMarketing: Yeah e e power supply is one of the most important things .\nUser Interface: You should {disfmarker} Perhaps you should be able to to switch the control off .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: If you have an L_C_D_ screen that's burns all the time I dunno .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: You shouldn't on and off because that's ver extra , that you have t first you have to turn the remote on , and then you can uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: I don't know .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , I think it's it's not that easy because I don't think people will like it who who uh that you have to turn it on first and then use it ,\nUser Interface: Nee that's that's uh yeah .\nMarketing: so I think it's better when th the T_V_ shuts down , the remote shuts down .\n",
      "User Interface: But then you can't {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: And go to standby mode when you don't use it ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so that {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah yeah au automac matically , that it {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , automatically . After two minutes or three minutes , something like that .\nMarketing: Yeah . After two minutes , yeah two three minutes , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah . And maybe a low battery indicator ? On the screen .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Sure .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And then b that uh\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: before an hour when its get again gets empty .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Then you have plenty of time to recharge it ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: of put it in a recharger . Charger .\nProject Manager: So we are going for the for the recharger .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , if it's {gap} . Uh .\n",
      "User Interface: If it's sensible . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , because when you're watching T_V_ , you're zapping and you have to put it in a recharger ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah , b when the batteries are low {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No ,\nMarketing: and I don't think it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: when you when you're done with s uh w uh watching your television , you have to put it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , okay , but then we have to be sure that the the the the batteries go {vocalsound} hours , six hours , five , six hours , then .\nUser Interface: But you'll also forget to put it in ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah sure , of course .\nUser Interface: because you throw it on the couch\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah ,\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: then you have a problem .\nUser Interface: and you don't remember .\nIndustrial Designer: But you also forget to buy batteries ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . That's right .\nIndustrial Designer: and then you can you can't use it ,\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so I {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Or we have to be sure that the batteries last couple of days when they're recharged .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Well I think the batteries should should w should work a lot longer than a couple of days ,\nMarketing: So .\nUser Interface: or not ?\nMarketing: Yeah because you have b\nUser Interface: 'Cause {disfmarker}\nMarketing: but you have L_C_D_ screen .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's right , but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: High power usage .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: High power user cell , i uh it should be uh a standard move to to put your remote control in the charger when you're done watching television ,\nMarketing: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: that's also a a a great advantage because you can't lose it anymore . Because you are obliged to uh put it in the charger and not to uh leave it in a couch uh between some cushions .\nMarketing: True . Yeah . Yeah . True .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Right . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah , you made a point there .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} But then you also have to s have somewhere where you can put a remo recharger near your couch\nProject Manager: Yeah , also .\nUser Interface: because otherwise you have to walk a long way when you twoft want to turn on the T_V_ .\nMarketing: Yeah , otherwise all your {disfmarker} yeah . Just a small device {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Yeah . I think everything has it for and {disfmarker} I guess .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah it hasn't {disfmarker} It doesn't have to be big .\n",
      "Marketing: Plug it in , that's it . Yeah , like a {disfmarker} like telephone charger or something .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah just just a cable , or a even a a a a a charger where you can mount it on . Something like that ,\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: just u\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Alright .\nProject Manager: Okay , well I've\nMarketing: It has to be easy to use also , or things . Uh market share , speaker re speech recognition .\nProject Manager: Yeah , you have some more\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: points .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Functional designs uh for the elderly uh you could make it possible to enlarge the screen ,\nMarketing: I think .\nIndustrial Designer: so make it possible to not uh display uh a button at ten points\nMarketing: Also .\nIndustrial Designer: uh , or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Well I think that this should be standard . Large button {disfmarker} large buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah but it is uh one of the functions you have to uh specify .\nMarketing: Yeah ? Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Because we can look at uh uh perhaps uh forty buttons at a screen , but the elderly only look at two buttons .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: {gap} .\nProject Manager: And you said something about speech recognition ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Speech recognition ?\nMarketing: it says also {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Hello .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Twelve Euro\nUser Interface: twelve fifty , twelve fifty . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: twelve Euro fifty .\n",
      "Marketing: Twelve . That's an {disfmarker} also ninety one percent sixteen to twenty five , twenty six to thirty five years , seventy six percent , and thirty six to forty five , thirty five percent .\nUser Interface: So it's pretty big .\nIndustrial Designer: Well , spread it by a big market .\nMarketing: But then I I I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Even bigger than for L_C_D_ . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound} W I know let's do a speech . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: let's leave out all the remote controls and just put a {vocalsound} microphone on top of the television to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . Ninety . Twenty five .\nUser Interface: You can clap or something . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: {gap} channel .\nIndustrial Designer: Turn volume up .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Hey , that that's an idea . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Now you shouldn't say the wrong thing , I dunno {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , well\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: that should {disfmarker} it has to be remote control , not {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: {gap} twelve .\nUser Interface: But they want to talk into the remo remote control , or something ,\nIndustrial Designer: Sure why not why not {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: or ? {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Is this only would you would you pay more for speech recognition in a remote control . It's the only thing it says .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , mm .\nUser Interface: Oh , but do we want to implement that , or ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I think an L_C_D_ screen {vocalsound} should be suf sufficient .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: But when you look at the percentages {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , it says a lot , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Speech recognition scores even higher , huh ?\nIndustrial Designer: Perhaps the options should be uh {disfmarker} Why not ?\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , well ,\nIndustrial Designer: Why not ?\nProject Manager: maybe because of the cost , but uh nobody knows uh how much uh it will cost uh .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Let's hope uh to have some uh d\nUser Interface: I know {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: No I think I think it's better to have L_ L_C_D_ screen , because in the area of tw thirty six to forty five , we have about thirty percent of the market share in in our hands , and fifty five of those people want L_C_D_ screen and thirty five want speech recognition . So I think it's better to keep it with L_C_D_ screen .\nProject Manager: But would it be useful to imple implement both ?\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: On one remote ?\nMarketing: Yeah , if the costs al allow it . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Or {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Well {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , I dunno .\nUser Interface: I don't know if that can be done with the cost of twelve fifty .\nMarketing: Nee .\nUser Interface: With that uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: If it should be done , if it could be done , I won't matter . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: We should do it . Yeah . Sure .\nUser Interface: but how would you like to implement that , that you say volume up , and then it goes up ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: or ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Certain systems already exist , I think .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Then you also have to have different languages if we go international . Then uh it's y {vocalsound} it's yours to do a French and Dutch and English\nMarketing: {vocalsound} True .\nIndustrial Designer: True , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah . True .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: But that should also be with f should be also with L_C_D_ screen .\nIndustrial Designer: This should be uh accommodated with some software , uh , uh . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Because then I think in Chinese is different written , volume is different written than um Swahili or something .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's right . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Right . Swahili . Swahili .\nUser Interface: Yeah you can use icons for the\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: a speaker and uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Ja , well possible .\nIndustrial Designer: Indeed .\nUser Interface: But if that's better than language for the for the remote .\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah yeah yeah {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . So we want to uh yeah it's international uh okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Then it's {disfmarker} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: 'Kay , what else ?\nProject Manager: So , no speech recognition ? Or {disfmarker} {gap} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well , if it could be done , we {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Y it should be done . If it could be done , should be done .\nMarketing: we have to keep {disfmarker} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , and then we have different languages .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that should be uh anything matters .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: That's not so difficult at all ,\nProject Manager: Okay , just make a separate remote for each uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: because I already use on several voice operated systems , and they are all possible to uh not all , but {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well , you sh you should to adjust the thing .\nMarketing: I think it's difficult . Every language of dialects {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I think it's very differen difficult .\nUser Interface: And you have to speak the {disfmarker} so that it can understand .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . I think it can't be implemented , but maybe {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} You could use that n as an option , if you have money left , or something . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , 's an option , yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , sure , indeed .\nMarketing: Fifty Euro cents .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Let's do speech .\nIndustrial Designer: For speech recognition .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , so we only do this when we have enough money left .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay . Well I've written down an an on or off button , volume selection , channel selection , uh the digits from one to zero , huh . Um {disfmarker} or from zero to nine . Uh a digits button to switch uh between one and two digits , mute button , a separate menu for teletext , a battery indicator . Um we're going to use a docking station and uh probably L_C_D_ and if there's enough money , speech recognition . And uh the possibility to uh enlarge buttons or to have large buttons\nUser Interface: Mm . Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm , yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: in general .\nUser Interface: I {vocalsound} With uh teletext if {disfmarker} it wasn't ver very important , it was but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , but {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: You also now have colours . I don't know if we should implement that . Yeah ,\nMarketing: Curved ?\nUser Interface: when you press the red button , you go to page one hundred two , and when you press the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh yeah .\nUser Interface: I don't know if we should implement that ,\nMarketing: Um .\n",
      "User Interface: because it says that teletext not really important ,\nIndustrial Designer: S Shortcuts . Uh .\nUser Interface: but yeah , the shortcut , and you can't go to sport .\nMarketing: I think we should {disfmarker} we could that {disfmarker} we could also implement a audio settings , screen settings and channel settings , but as sub-menus .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: D Mainly if you turn the uh remote control on , you have to u you have to see from one till zero , channel and volume . And if you want to use teletext screen or audio , then you can press it .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Sh Yeah , just just sub-menu . Yeah .\nMarketing: It should be available but not\nUser Interface: 'Cause it should be there .\nIndustrial Designer: Not directly uh available .\nMarketing: not {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay , so not too much teletext support , but in a separate menu , and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So actually it is there but it's just not r ready there .\nMarketing: Yeah , but s\nIndustrial Designer: Directly available .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So does it confuse uh the user ?\n",
      "User Interface: You'll have to search for it . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: They'd have to be easy to use .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh . I'll search um .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: If you want to use teletext , you can push the teletext button and then the options uh become available .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah , that's a {disfmarker}\nMarketing: The sign of it .\nProject Manager: Okay , but no more buttons or functions , or ?\nUser Interface: I guess not .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: Uh , no . What else can you do with a television ?\n",
      "User Interface: We've got anon\nProject Manager: Aren't we forgetting something very important ?\nUser Interface: Have got got two examples here , but I don't think there's anything we're missing .\nMarketing: Uh play , pause , doesn't n need to be there .\nUser Interface: Well , we don't have the video orders {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yes , so this is your presentation . We could check the other remote controls with technical functions .\nUser Interface: Yeah , you could look here all the the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Which ones were yours ?\nUser Interface: Uh th th th th I don't know , technical functions .\nMarketing: Techni\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} They're a bit small , you can {disfmarker} we should stretch them , because {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Ping .\nMarketing: Ja ja ja ja ja . Technical functions . Yeah okay .\nUser Interface: I guess we've got them all .\nMarketing: Uh I think I go to have volume , mute but I {disfmarker} Yeah {gap} . Very slow . Yeah , the zoom buttons .\nUser Interface: And for a T_V_ ? Can you zoom in a T_V_ ?\nMarketing: Yeah , b wide screen , high screen , different things you have ,\n",
      "User Interface: Or that you can put 'em on uh on on wide and {disfmarker}\nMarketing: yeah different uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: But that should also be a sub then , a sub uh menu thing .\nIndustrial Designer: Menu .\nMarketing: Yeah it should be available , but then in separate screen settings or something .\nUser Interface: Yeah , so we should also implement se screen settings .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Yeah , screen settings , audio settings , teletext settings you have .\nUser Interface: Oh right . Yeah .\nMarketing: Channel settings .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , so you can program the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So those four , and of course the main .\nUser Interface: Yeah , so the first you see the main , and the other ones you can uh go to uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah . Like tap screens or something\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: or , I dunno .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I hope we can do this . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Something {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: There are a lot of options depending uh on what kind of television you got .\nMarketing: Yeah , if uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: 'Cause if you don't got a wide screen television you don't need the uh the screen settings\nMarketing: No , you don't yu a no you then you don't no ni don't {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: uh for uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: then you don't use it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah and if the television does not support such uh operations\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: We don't have to use that top . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: So you leave it alone .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . Or it could be possible to have a a standard version of the remote , an expanded version .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . And do we want them in different colours , or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: And and the buttons , should they have colours ?\nMarketing: Colours . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Colours I think the main colour of the remote control is uh the colour of the L_C_D_ screen .\nUser Interface: Oh but we don't have any buttons . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I Because we don't want a lot a devi yeah a device self s g\nMarketing: Yeah , then defines itself . Because uh how many percent ? Eighty percent ?\nUser Interface: They think it's ugly , right ?\nMarketing: Would spend more money if it looks fancy .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , so use uh very uh lot of peo {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Perhaps you can uh make adjustable fronts , like with the telephones {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: Adjust with phones , yes {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: You can uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But I don't think that uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . {vocalsound} Twelve Euro fifty . Well , make it available in different colours , you mean ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Sure .\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Red , white , blue , black . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And a see-through uh\nMarketing: Rasta colours .\nIndustrial Designer: Grey .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah sea view , yes , Simpson's versions and {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , see through version . Yeah . If you press a button , it turns green .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , well\nIndustrial Designer: Leave . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: that's the\nUser Interface: A disco version .\nProject Manager: signal for las final five minutes .\nUser Interface: Five minutes ?\nProject Manager: Um so I have uh the things I just read . Um then we have uh separate menus for teletext , screen settings , audio settings , and what else ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Channel settings ?\nUser Interface: Oh yeah , right .\nProject Manager: Channel settings .\nUser Interface: So you can program the T_V_ .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Perhaps you should you'd throw them on on in one pile . So , options , and then you sub them .\nMarketing: Yeah . Could be possible .\nUser Interface: Otherwise you have all those teletext , perhaps teletext not ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Or like uh you have a menu button , you press {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: No , we said teletext also a separate menu .\nUser Interface: Yeah , but I {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , or otherwise you have a menu button , press menu then you have uh main uh menu search uh all the all the settings .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , but we can work that out later , I guess .\nUser Interface: But {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , no problem . Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we're having a a general menu with the most used functions , uh teletext , screen settings , audio settings , channel settings , and maybe there are options for the remote itself ? Like uh large icons or small icons\nUser Interface: I don't know .\nProject Manager: and I don't know what else ,\nMarketing: Um ,\nProject Manager: but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: I think b because we don't have a lot of buttons on the one screen ,\nUser Interface: Or do we have any buttons ? On the remote .\nMarketing: I think the buttons {disfmarker} Yeah , but but or like you have\n",
      "User Interface: Which one ?\nMarketing: you only have channel button or volume button . Those buttons you can you can {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , but on the L_C_D_ ,\nUser Interface: But that's also in the L_C_D_ ,\nProject Manager: huh ?\nUser Interface: right ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Right , yeah , okay . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: So we don't have any normal buttons\nMarketing: Yeah , th\nUser Interface: that uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , no normal buttons , yeah .\nUser Interface: No , alright .\n",
      "Marketing: Maybe only the on and o on and off button .\nUser Interface: Yet on and off is p is perhaps you kno\nProject Manager: But we don't need a special {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh not button {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But I don't think {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: we don't need a special options menu for the remote itself .\nUser Interface: No , no .\nMarketing: Mm , no .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Oh well , you should be able to set which T_V_ you have . If you have {disfmarker} if you have uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah sure , of course you need uh a settings button , uh or a settings option for the remote control .\nUser Interface: Yeah . But isn't idea to use uh uh what you said , uh normal on and off button for the T_V_ , that you don't have to use a {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No no no , because we we discussed that you could charge it , otherwise is {disfmarker} it it jumps to stand-by mode automatically .\nUser Interface: Yeah but but not for the remote but for the T_V_ , that you use {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , but a T_V_ of course , th that's the {disfmarker} I think that's a best thing is that to implement that one in the menu with the volume and channel .\nUser Interface: But a not as normal button , in the L_C_D_ ,\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: Well maybe there should be a separate button apart from the L_C_D_ ,\nUser Interface: yeah .\nProject Manager: because you can't turn it on when the L_C_D_ is off . So how do you turn the thing on ? There has to be a on button on the remote ,\nUser Interface: No you just tap I think .\n",
      "Project Manager: huh ?\nIndustrial Designer: Just tap it .\nMarketing: Yeah , you tap .\nProject Manager: Tap the thing . Okay .\nMarketing: Touch screen , yeah then it's turn {disfmarker} turn off , turn on .\nProject Manager: And then the television is on also , or just the remote ?\nMarketing: No , just the remote .\nUser Interface: But {disfmarker}\nMarketing: A television don't have to be on , that one you can {vocalsound} press on ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it should be in standby mode , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: yeah stand-by , then press on remote , press on and then T_V_ should be available . Or not .\nUser Interface: Yeah a yeah . I don't know whether it's handy to have a n a normal on button , a r just uh rubber uh for for T_V_ ,\nMarketing: Separate .\nUser Interface: so you can turn it on and then you can choose the channel . Otherwise you {disfmarker} I don't know whether or not that's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: A A A normal button on the remote control ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah . To turn it on .\nIndustrial Designer: or norm ?\n",
      "User Interface: Of or you should put it in the L_C_D_ screen .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , because uh when you touch the L_C_D_ screen when it is in standby mode , it should pop on .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I have ,\nProject Manager: Okay , well {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Wh uh why would it be a a need to have a normal button ?\n",
      "User Interface: Well I I guess if you use the L_C_D_ screen , you first have to search where is the on button , then you uh you you then turn it , and then the T_V_ goes on . But if you have a normal on button on the on the remote , then you do the on , and then you search the channel which you want .\nMarketing: Yeah , but I think the re the remote control , if you press tap the screen , it always should jump to the screen which has the volume button , channel button , and of course of also the on and off button .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Oh right .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I think it looks a lot more fancy if you use uh if you don't have any buttons on the s on on remote control .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I think so too . Otherwise y wet e k Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So actually we're going to create a a button-less uh remote . No buttons at all .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , well that's might be a unique selling point , huh for a remote .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} If we can afford it . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , well I guess we have to\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh , okay {gap}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , if we can afford it . Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: postpone further discussion to uh our next meeting , because we're running out of time . Um for now , we're having a lunch break ,\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} and then there will be uh half an hour for the uh next share of individual work . I will uh write uh minutes , if I can create them out of this . And uh put them in the the project documents uh folder .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: And here are the individual actions for the for the other roles . And of course specific instructions will be sent to you again by your uh personal coach .\nUser Interface: Alright .\nProject Manager: Luckily as we are . Okay , well\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: thank you very much , for now ,\n"
    ],
    "length": 13677,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 28,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting with Dr Frank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is the head of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government, was mainly about the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' draft strategy in Wales and subsequent questions about it. To start with, Sian Gwenllian AM proposed questions like the strategy's evaluation, investment and principal. Dr Frank Atherton, at the same time, indicated that there was a n exact evaluation and the nation has already imposed tax on sugar and the first Minister will definitely be the ultimate man at the wheel. Then they paid much attention to existing data measuring child obesity and decided to put it in great use in tackling obesity. Meanwhile, the meeting talked about government legislation for some sort of things like restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and sports infrastructure in schools as part of efforts to make a healthy environment. What's more, they went into details on how healthy settings constructions and whom that would be the one to take responsibility. Also, they had a discussion on physical education and school meals for pupils. Finally, the meeting participants gave some supplements of education and the draft strategy and the chair concluded the meeting with the future universality of the draft strategy.",
    "docs": [
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Michelle Brown and Jack Sargeant; there are no substitutions. Can I ask if Members have any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. We'll move on, then, to item 2, which is our scrutiny of the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' draft strategy, and I'm very pleased to welcome Dr Frank Atherton, the Chief Medical Officer for Wales, and Nathan Cook, who is the head of the healthy and active branch at Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending this morning. We're very much looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions. If I can just start by asking about the fact that 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' is an all-age strategy, really, and how confident you are that it will deliver for children and young people.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, we're very confident. I mean, it has to, quite clearly. We do need to think about the present generation, the problems faced by the current generation. We have high prevalence of overweight and obesity among adults\u2014we know that, and we can't walk away from that because that's translating into demand on health services. But we have to take a focus, a future generation's focus, almost, on the next generation. I don't write off the current generation, we can't afford to do that, but we do need to think about what can we do that would be different for the next generation so that they don't get into the sorts of problems that we're currently seeing with overweight and obesity. We know that the consequences of that for our young people are going to be enormous if we don't do something and something quite soon. We know that overweight children go on to become overweight adults, unfortunately, and that brings all the consequences of multiple disease issues\u2014diabetes is often cited\u2014cancer risk et cetera. So, we have to focus on children, and, in fact, during the consultation, we've been very clear that we need to engage with children and young people as well. Perhaps we'll get into that at some point, Chair, but, yes, I can give you that assurance.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. What my follow-up question, really, is: can you just tell us what kind of engagement you've had with children and young people to inform the draft strategy?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, Nathan may be able to influence some of the detail, but in broad terms, we have discussed with young people in a number of fora. In fact, I was delighted that we had a young person, Evie Morgan, a schoolgirl from mid Wales, who came to the joint launch on the consultation. She met the Minister there and gave a very good personal account of her views on obesity and overweight. We've been visiting a number of schools during the consultation process. I'm visiting a school, either this week or next week, at Treorchy, to talk with teachers and young people there. Obviously, we're hopeful that schools and young people will contribute to the consultation as well. So, we've had quite good input, I would say, from children and young people. There is always more we can do we and we want to hear those voices.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: I was going to say, we've also had a session with youth ambassadors as well, and what we've actually produced for the consultation is not just the children and young people's version, but also a toolkit in terms of getting schools really engaged and involved in terms of the work that we want them to do to feed into this as well. So, we've already had some really good responses from a lot of youth group and schools already.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: And you've got a structured programme, have you, to roll that out? Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on leadership, and the first questions are from Si\u00e2n Gwenllian.\nSian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. I'll be speaking in Welsh. The Minister for health said yesterday, in answering a question from me on the Chamber floor, that you gave him advice not to have a target in terms of reducing obesity among children. Could you confirm that that's what your advice was and tell us why you don't think that a target is needed?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: My advice was not that we don't need a target\u2014we may well need a target, and that's one of the issues we need to consult on\u2014but that the target that had been adopted in England and in Scotland to halve the prevalence of obesity in children was more aspirational than deliverable, and that if we are to choose a target in Wales, then we need to balance deliverability with challenge. We need a challenging environment. So, there is something about performance management, because I would be looking to not just the health system but the health and care system and to public services boards to think about how they're delivering on this, and I think we can use targets to that. But they are one tool in the box that I would think we could use, and part of the consultation is to ask that question\u2014'If we are to go down a route in Wales of choosing a target, what might that look like?'\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. So, to be clear, you're not ruling out that maybe we would need a target.\nDr Frank Atherton: It's certainly something that we could consider in terms of the final strategy.\nSian Gwenllian AM: And is that your opinion too?\nNathan Cook: Yes.\nSian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Well, that is contrary to what I was told yesterday on the floor of the Chamber by the Minister, but there we go. I'm glad to hear that you're not ruling out having a target, because without a target, without something to aim for, how do we know that we're getting there?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I think your point about evaluation is really important. Whatever we produce at the end of this process\u2014and we're looking to produce a final strategy towards the autumn\u2014we do need to have a strong evaluation. So, some metrics in there, it would seem, would be appropriate, but what those are, what the nature of those are, do we frame them as targets or ambitions\u2014that's the point we need to consult on.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. And the other point, of course, is the investment. If the Government is going to be successful in terms of the aim of reducing childhood obesity, then it needs to fund and support the actions. Have you made an assessment of the level of investment needed to implement this plan?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Resourcing will be important. We currently do make investments in a number of areas that relate to child health generally, and, of course, obesity and overweight in particular. So, the question of resourcing is important. Now, we can't quantify an absolute amount of resource that will be needed to deliver until we know exactly what's going to come out of the consultation and what actions we might want to deliver to a greater degree in Wales. A figure of \u00a38 million to \u00a310 million a year has been banded around as a broad kind of area of what we might need to invest, but that would need to be drawn from existing programmes. We need to look at existing programmes, how effective they are. Can we make them more effective? Can we get better value from them? And there may well be a case for new investment, and that's a question, of course, that would need to be discussed with Ministers when we're producing the final strategy.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: But I think a key consideration as well is we already know there is investment across health boards in some kind of obesity-related services. So, I think what we really need to think about across Wales is how we can drive greater scale, how we can look at current programmes in terms of making sure that they're better evaluated, and how we can make sure that we're also drawing up on the existing resources and capacity out there as well.\nSian Gwenllian AM: And does the level of investment depend on what the target is\u2014what the goal is?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I don't think you can necessarily just link the two. The issue of resourcing is one that's there irrespective of whether we choose to put a target in place.\nSian Gwenllian AM: But how would we know that it's being used effectively if there isn't something to aim for?\nDr Frank Atherton: Which brings you back to the question about evaluation. We need proper evaluation of the various programmes that we have.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, but without a target, how can you properly evaluate? If you don't know what you're trying to do, how can you properly evaluate? Anyway, you're open to suggestions about having a target, which is great. Would you agree that Government could use the revenue that's being produced through the levy on soft drinks towards some of these efforts to\u2014?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, of course, there are some consequentials that are coming to the Welsh Government as part of the levy on sugary soft drinks. That funding, of course, is less than we had anticipated, and that reflects, actually, a success story because industry is reformulating, and so the amount of sugar in soft drinks is already starting to decrease, which is a good thing. But to your question:\u00a0should we use the funding? Well, of course we should use funding. I'm not personally in favour of hypothecation, I think I'm more interested in the totality of resource that goes into public health programmes than into marginal resource. There are, of course, a number of initiatives that we currently fund through the general revenue. And when I think about obesity, I don't just think about the relatively small marginal amounts of money that come in through whatever source, but I think about the totality of the \u00a37 billion we spend in health and social care and how we can divert and channel some of that towards broad prevention initiatives in general, and towards tackling being overweight and obesity in particular.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: You're saying that it's less than expected. Could you give us any kind of figure?\nDr Frank Atherton: I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?\nSian Gwenllian AM: You say that there is less money that's come in through these consequentials from the levy, can you mention some sort of figure?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: The figure that I have in mind is about \u00a356 million that's coming in in terms of revenue over a two-year period. But I'd have to confirm that with the committee. What the anticipated\u2014. When the sugar levy was first brought in, there was some modelling at UK level about what level of revenue that would bring, but it was based on the amount of sugar that was currently then in drinks and the fact that the sugar has reduced in drinks, I mean, the total amount available to the UK is less and hence our consequentials are less. Nathan may have some precise figures.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: Yes, I was going to say, there was a mid-year report done where the levy has raised \u00a3150 million to date since coming into force in April, and the original forecast was \u00a3520 million a year. So, I think that shows the amount of work that's been done by industry around reformulation.\nSian Gwenllian AM: And the consequentials of that? That is the consequential\u2014\u00a3150 million.\nNathan Cook: On a UK level.\nSian Gwenllian AM: Yes, so what's the Welsh consequential?\nLynne Neagle AM: Fifty-six.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Fifty-six? Gosh, that sounds a lot. Anyway, it's a good sum of money and you're talking about investing \u00a38 million to \u00a310 million. So, obviously, you know, we can be more ambitious because there is money in that pot if that money was ring-fenced for this particular scheme.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, the resource is going to be a real issue that we need to address, and I think as Nathan has said, there is funding of various initiatives currently in the system, and we need to look at that and make that as effective as possible. Will there be a need for some additional resource? There may well be, and that's a question that we'll have to look at in terms of the strategy when we develop it and have a discussion with Ministers about the level of resourcing.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Can I just ask on that before Si\u00e2n moves on? What assessment have you made of how that money is being spent in other UK nations? Because my understanding is that the money is being used in other UK nations to directly impact on obesity. Have you given any consideration to\u2014? As I understand it, that money now is being dispersed around a plethora of programmes, including the transformation programme, and what I found very odd, really, was vaccination, which is surely the core business of the NHS. Have you got any view on that?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I'm not sure I understand your point, Chair, in terms of the link between the consequentials from\u2014. Are you talking about the consequentials from the sugar levy or are you talking about\u2014?\nLynne Neagle AM: Yes, because in other nations, it is being used to directly impact on initiatives to tackle obesity, whereas, we've kind of put it here in Wales into the general pot and it's being used to fund a plethora of different things.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, that cuts to what I was talking about. My preference\u2014it's a personal view\u2014is that hypothecation doesn't really help us too much. I mean, what we need to look at is whether the programmes, the sorts of programmes that are being funded in England, or indeed in Scotland, are working effectively, and if they are, are they being delivered here in Wales? We have looked very carefully at the plans that England and Scotland have for tackling obesity and overweight, and we've made a comparison with what we're doing in Wales, and our ambition in Wales is to go further than those nations, in many ways. But I come back to the point that just linking the hypothecation of a relatively small amount of resource is likely to be less impactful than asking a question of public services boards and of the health system, indeed, about how much money, overall, are we putting into prevention.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: No, I recognise that, and I think we're talking about additional resource. Suzy.\nSuzy Davies AM: I was just wondering whether you thought that there was a useful psychological link on the part of the public between saying, 'Here's a sugar levy', and 'It's going to be used to help children and adults stay healthier.' Going into a pot, it actually makes it quite difficult to explain the purpose of the tax in the first place. So, I take your overall point, but in terms of the people who we're trying to help in all this, actually creating a direct link might be quite helpful.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: You may be right. I'm not a behavioural psychologist. We'd have to ask\u2014\nSuzy Davies AM: Neither am I. I'm a person who eats a lot of sugar. [Laughter.]\nDr Frank Atherton: Your point's taken.\nSuzy Davies AM: Thank you.\nLynne Neagle AM: Thanks. Si\u00e2n.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: The last question from me, about partnership working. You're putting an emphasis on the whole-system approach in implementing the plan, how are you going to create a system that co-ordinates action and drives change across relevant partners, avoiding a situation where it's everyone's role, but nobody's responsibility? How are you going to avoid that?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: It's a very important question, and one of the four strands in the consultation is exactly related to that, around leadership and drive nationally. I'm not interested in producing a strategy that sits on a shelf. If you look around the world, there are plenty of obesity strategies. You may notice, by the way, that we've chosen not to talk about an obesity strategy but a healthy weight strategy, because I think having a positive construct is really quite important to us here in Wales. But leadership will be really important, and we will need some sort of structure to lead this, to provide oversight. I'm not a great believer in creating new structures, so we do need something that will give that drive, but the leadership comes from the top down. We need political commitment to this, and that's why I welcome the input from this committee. So, that needs to be assured. And then we need to make sure that the public sector generally is engaged in this, but it goes way beyond the public sector, of course, because we have to work with industry, and we have to work with communities, and we have to work with the public on this. So we need to think about our governance system for this and how we drive it forward. Interestingly, we had quite a large discussion two days ago between health and social care, but also involving the third sector and some members of the public, around how can we drive prevention more generally. It wasn't specifically on obesity, but of course obesity came up because it's such a pressing issue. This question of governance was discussed quite extensively, and we do have governance systems, of course, in Wales. We have public services boards, we have regional partnership boards, and how we can get those aligned behind this common agenda is really important. But I'd like to see\u2014and I know I'm a public health professional, so I know that only maybe 10 per cent, 15 per cent, possibly 20 per cent of what makes and keeps us healthy as individuals and as communities can be driven through the health system; but I would like the system to step up and take these kinds of issues more seriously as well. So I'd be looking for local leadership through directors of public health and indeed through chief executives to work with their public services boards on this. So, we'll need some sort of national oversight, absolutely, but we need local ownership and local leadership, too.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We've got some questions now from Janet Finch-Saunders.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair. Delivery of the plan will be led by a national implementation board that will be accountable to Ministers. Which Minister do you believe it should be accountable to, or, given the complexity of obesity, should the board be directly accountable to the First Minister?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Ultimately, the First Minister will be responsible for this and will want to have a strong oversight of this. It is often framed as a health issue, and the Minister, Vaughan Gething, has a strong personal commitment to this, I know. We've talked extensively with him and with sports and recreation colleagues about that, so there's a link there. It does cut across all portfolios, and so this is an issue that I have discussed with Cabinet, and that collective ownership is really important, and will be, because it can't just sit in one domain. I think what you do need to have is you do need to have a lead organisation or a lead ministry, and I would see health as\u2014I work within health, so I'm perhaps biased, but I would see health as leading this, but it needs broad ownership across Government.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: I know my colleague Si\u00e2n Gwenllian mentioned earlier targets and things, but I know in Wales we're not too good at collecting data. What data is currently available on childhood obesity and what metrics will be used to measure progress against the plan's objectives?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, of course, our main data source is the child measurement programme, which collects information on children entering school aged four or five. That's our main source of information. If we look at that data, it shows us\u2014. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the statistics, but it'll be just under a third of children at that age who are overweight or obese\u2014\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Could I just ask\u2014sorry to interrupt\u2014how up to date is that?\nDr Frank Atherton: The last survey was just last year.\nNathan Cook: The data was published last week.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Yes, the lastest data was out last week.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: It is pretty up to date.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: So, it's pretty up to date, and what it shows\u2014. It's not getting radically worse\u2014there's always statistical variation in these things\u2014but it's not getting any better. And, for the first time last year, we did look at the question not just of children who were overweight or obese, but we actually singled out the proportion who are obese, severely obese. So we have a figure for that for the first time, which is about 12 per cent, which is quite shocking, in a way.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: It is shocking.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: So, that's our main source of information. Does that answer your question?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes, but how will any gaps in your data be addressed?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, one of the questions that are often asked is: could we measure more on a longitudinal basis? By that I mean in England, for example, children are measured at school entry and then again at year 11\u2014at age 11 or 12., that kind of age group. And so you do have a longitudinal view over time of what's happening to children. I think that would be helpful to us in Wales, and it's one of the questions in the consultation about whether we should expand that. Obviously, that would have significant resource implications, not just for the funding, but also for schools and for the system to deliver it. But it's something that maybe would help us in terms of better understanding and better evaluation\u2014the point that was made earlier.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: And the other data we do have is the millennium cohort study, which has been released, for 14 and 15-year-olds. That's going to be\u2014. We're starting to think about how we can utilise some of that data, looking at that longitudinal picture around children as well, which will be really helpful.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. You've answered my next question. Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Can I just ask about the child measurement programme? The strategy commits to looking at whether we can have a second measurement taking place in Wales. Can you just tell us a bit more about your thinking on that and when you would see a second measurement taking place and how you would use that data?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I touched on that just now, but personally I do think it would be helpful to have more information. It's always the case, There's always a trade-off between the cost of getting that information and the value of the information. So, the question of how it would be used would be really important. There is still a lot that we don't know. We know an awful lot about obesity and being overweight and the causes of it, but we don't really have a very clear understanding, in Wales at least, of the point at which children start to become overweight. Although we know that overweight children tend to go on to become overweight adults, we don't know what proportion of them between school entry and later teenage years\u2014what those changes are. So, it would help us to have some better understanding, which would help to direct some of our initiatives. I'd be generally supportive of the principle. We'll wait and see what comes out in the consultation, and it's something that we need to give thought to,\u00a0 but we do have to trade off the additionality of what the information would give us with the cost of doing that, of course.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on healthy environments from Dawn Bowden.\nDawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. In the draft plan, some of the measures in there suggest legislating for restricting price promotions and banning energy drinks, and that sort of thing. Do you think that, if we go down that road, there's going to be time within this Assembly to introduce such legislation? And, if not, what do you think might be the timescale for such legislation?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: It may well be that there are things in Wales that we might wish to legislate on, and you've mentioned two of them, and they're good examples. We would, obviously, need to undertake quite detailed consultation on those and, in a way, we need to mirror what's happening in England and in Scotland\u00a0to some degree around the consultations they're having on energy drinks. We also need to influence the issues that are not devolved to us and we seek to do that. As to your question of legislative time, I'm not really in a position to answer that. What I could say is that legislation may well be one of the outcomes of the consultation. There may well be things that we wish to choose to legislate on. The timing of that will have to be subject to other pressures, and I come back to the point that legislation, of course, is one of the tools that we've got\u2014we need to deploy them all.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, I understand that, that you could do other things. I know\u2014. We've heard from the Government, on other calls for legislation, that the programme's very tight, certainly for this term, so I was just wondering whether we might get that in, but okay. If I turn now to the planning system\u2014and this might not be something that you have great deal of knowledge of; I'd just welcome your view on this, because, when we discussed with stakeholders, we talked about whether the planning system, for instance, could be used to, as an example, restrict hot food takeaways around schools and so on. Would that be a measure that you would support, something like that?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I think it's definitely something we want to look at and, of course, that question is asked in the consultation, so we would like to know people's views on that. It's an interesting one. I think there is a question\u2014a really important question\u2014about how we can use the planning system more effectively. I've discussed with Nathan on a number of occasions, with planning colleagues in Welsh Government and in local authorities, about the art of the possible, let's say. There may be things that we could think about and we want to get those ideas through the consultation. The specific question around takeaways, particularly takeaways near schools, is often asked. I was very interested to see, up in the north-east, some time ago, that one of the local authorities up there did put a moratorium on the opening of new fast-food venues near to schools, or indeed in areas where levels of obesity and overweight were particularly high. I understand London is now\u2014some London boroughs are now\u2014experimenting with that as well. So, that gave me comfort, because maybe there are powers within local authorities that can be used more effectively.\u00a0I think my view at the moment is that the jury's kind of out on whether those are effective and how effective they're going to be. But the fact that we have some initiatives around the UK does give us an opportunity to study that and to learn from experience perhaps and then, if it is shown to be beneficial, to think about that here in Wales, yes.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: Sure, because it will only be one of a suite of measures anyway. Of itself, it wouldn't address the problem, but, added to other initiatives, I guess it would. Can I just ask you briefly, then, about community sport infrastructure and, in particular, of new schools? So, Welsh Government, as you know, has ploughed a huge amount of money into the twenty-first century schools programme. What we heard when we spoke to stakeholders recently, particularly headteachers, was that, in some of the new schools that have been built, we haven't had changing rooms and toilet facilities, for instance, built into the new buildings. So, if we're going to try and utilise these buildings for general community activity to get kids and the wider public, actually, more active, do you think that's something that we ought to be building in? Again, not your particular direct area of responsibility, but something that you might have an input into, is that, when we're developing schools, we should be making sure that they have those kinds of facilities so that they become accessible to the wider public. Is that something that you would be prepared to make a recommendation around?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, it's certainly a fascinating area and one that I think has a lot of potential. It goes\u2014. You're right to raise it in the context of schools, and I can understand why this committee would, but I think it goes beyond that, actually, into all developments in the public sector and how they're developed and whether we're building health into our environment, which perhaps is your starting point. One of the things that I was really pleased to see in terms of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 that was passed a couple of years ago was the use of health impact assessment as a tool, and we're still working on how that will inform policy and how that will be applied in issues such as policy decisions through Government, but also in more downstream issues about how we create the public infrastructure that the public can and should be using. And so I would like to see the use of health impact assessments to a much greater degree to inform those kinds of decisions. If you apply that kind of lens and you take the point, which is inherent in your question, I think, that schools are not just for kids, they're for communities, then you would\u2014it would lead you to a conclusion that you would perhaps design and build them in a different way. So, on a personal basis, I would certainly support your view that we should be looking to use the sports environment in schools in the same way as we use leisure centres. There are all kinds of barriers in there, and I understand all of that, and it's not really my field, exactly as you say, but, as a matter of principle, I think it's a good one to pursue.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. And widening it out to other public services buildings as well.\nDr Frank Atherton: Indeed.\nDawn Bowden AM: Yes. Okay. Thank you.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We're going to move on now to talk about how we create healthy settings. I've got some questions from Suzy Davies.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Thank you very much. Yes, perhaps if we could just stay in this area of education just for a moment, I think we all agree that healthy habits acquired early on probably tend to last quite well, so I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about the healthy and sustainable preschool scheme and whether you think some timescales should be made public about what you expect the achievements from that scheme to be. But, in particular, I was struck with what you said about local leadership, and I just want you to bear that in mind in answering the next question, which is about the foundation phase. You're probably aware that this committee has heard from various school leaders that they're struggling in some cases to meet the ratio of staffing for the foundation phase, which potentially compromises the purpose of it in terms of physical activity.\u00a0I'm just wondering how the strategy development board is considering that at the moment. Is it something that's come on the radar for the board? Is it something you're thinking about? And, if so, who do you think should be responsible for pinning that down a little bit? Because this is education, not health, and\u2014.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, look, I've got to confess to you, I'm not an educationist, and so the question on staffing numbers in schools is not one that I have been asked to give a deal of consideration to, and it hasn't really been discussed, I don't believe, in the context of development of the strategy. If there is a specific point around that that the committee would like to make in terms of a response into the consultation, which I presume you'll be making, then we'd be happy to consider that. As to healthy preschools, I don't know, Nathan may have some view on that. I've not been closely involved with the work. We have standards and we perhaps need to think about how we tighten those standards and how we\u2014enforce isn't the right word, but how we implement and make sure that those standards are properly implemented, because you're absolutely right to say that habits are developed early in life. That's in the preschool; it's also in the home of course, and then later in the school. So, we do need to look at all of those as settings and are there more things we can do within those settings to drive healthier behaviours\u2014that's exactly why we need the consultation.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: But I would say, through that scheme as well, we've really got a really good bank of preschools that are actually doing some really great work in this area as well. So, I think the more we can understand the successes that some of those environments are having\u2014you know, how we can roll those out and work across other settings to create that wider impact as well is going to be really important.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. What I'm thinking about is expectations at that level will be expectations at a slightly older level, which will be contained within the foundation phase. And while you're quite right\u2014obviously, parents have a role in this, or families\u2014there will be, particularly with the introduction of the new curriculum, certain expectations on schools to provide not just healthy environments but to actively work towards well-being and healthy weight in children and things. And that's why I asked you about local leadership, because, if it fails for reasons that have nothing to do with the plan at foundation phase, it's going to fail further up the school years as well. I think it might be something that the board might want to consider here, because at some point there'll be an accountability question and we will want to know how 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' fits in with the new plans for the new curriculum, and whether it's merely persuasive and influential or whether it has the weight to place some obligations on school leaders about what they do in their schools. So, this connection, I think, is quite an important one, and, if the strategy development board could consider that, I think it would be very helpful, because this doesn't exist in a vacuum.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, I'd certainly be delighted to\u00a0take that back and we can look at it in terms of how we move from the consultation into the final strategy. It's certainly a point we can try and look at.\nSuzy Davies AM: Because we will want to know who to ask: 'you're the accountable person\u2014why has something worked, or not worked?' We will need to know that at some point.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Just building on Nathan's point, some of the schools\u2014I know it's schools rather than the preschools, and I take your point, but some of the schools we've been working with have absolutely brilliant models of good practice and good local leadership. I remember the Minister actually at the launch, and one of the schools was represented there, and they presented\u2014the school came and some of the children came and presented\u2014to the whole audience about the activities that they were undertaking in their school around physical activity and on healthy eating, and it was such a model of good behaviour the question was, 'Well, why not everywhere?', so that probably speaks to your question.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay, well, thank you for that commitment anyway.\nLynne Neagle AM: And have you had any discussions, then, with education officials around things like teacher training and CPD, because you'll be aware the Health and Social Care Committee has made a number of recommendations in this area? It's crucial that we skill up the staff to develop these things in an appropriate way, isn't it?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, we certainly discuss with education colleagues in Welsh Government. There's more we need to do in terms of that, because you're absolutely right: there's something about building the whole of the workforce\u2014education is really important, but elsewhere as well; it's about how do we really make every contact count, you know, that construct. So, everybody who's working in the health and social care system should have a role in this; everybody who works in education, whether it's the old\u2014. Do we still have dinner ladies? Or teachers, you know, they have a role to play in supporting children to be as healthy as they possibly can. And, actually, I see them, Chair, as a really essential part of the public health workforce.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Suzy, are you going to do your curriculum one?\nSuzy Davies AM: Well, I've bound it in together, but that final point you make about teachers being part of the answer to this, they're already under a range of pressures: is it fair to make them accountable for whether this works or not? Or should that local leadership lie somewhere else? I don't expect you to pin down a person today.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I wouldn't like to blame a teacher or performance manage them on the proportion of their children in their class who are overweight. That would clearly be nonsense, wouldn't it? But they are part of the solution, and so the accountability lies further up the chain, doesn't it? The question I think we would have, and public services boards might well ask, and the local education authorities may well ask, is: how effective is any particular school at driving forwards these healthy behaviours?\nSuzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you. I'll leave some questions for Hefin.\nLynne Neagle AM: Hefin.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Is that all right, Chair?\nLynne Neagle AM: You've got the floor, Hefin.\nHefin David AM: Thank you, Chair. You make a commitment to embedding physical activity at an early stage in primary school education. What would that look like?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Just in terms of the physical activity, I have to say it's a really important dimension and we need to move further on. We know not enough of our children are physically active and they're not meeting the various guidelines, so it's really important. It doesn't actually have as much of an impact on weight as the dietary issue. I'd just say that. It's really important for all sorts of reasons. It does have an impact on healthy weight, but it has a huge impact in terms of socialisation, in terms of mental health issues, et cetera, you know. So\u2014I'm sorry, I've lost track of your question.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: I'd just say that one thing we have got in train is, obviously, Sport Wales, Public Health Wales and Natural Resources Wales\u2014we have them working together as a collaborative at the moment to look at how their joint delivery on physical activity can be taken forward more efficiently. So, one of the things they are looking at is obviously the schools programmes they do through eco-schools, the Welsh network of healthy schools and the sports programme to really think about that physical activity and how we can have better join up in terms of the programmes that we're already delivering as well.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: With that in mind, I'm going to confess to you, chief medical officer, I did anything in school I could to avoid physical education lessons. I hated it. I didn't feel engaged with it. Yet, two weeks ago, I played for the Assembly rugby team\u2014I wanted to get that in. The school sports survey, that would suggest that we're still not hitting those targets with children. How can we get children more engaged with physical education in ways that\u2014? I felt completely alienated in school.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you're right, and many people go through that same journey and come to physical activity later in life, and that's great if they do that. The sad reality is that many people don't, and we also know that there are issues around the dropping off, particularly for girls, of physical activity towards the teenage years. So, there are specific moments that we need to understand. We do have a lot of information about these kinds of things. Public Health Wales is very good at collating the information. We do need to turn that into programmes. I mean, at the heart of it, it's about making sports and physical activity enjoyable and attractive to people. Sometimes that's easier, I sense, for boys than for girls, but we need to tailor things to different audiences.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Yes, that's the trick, isn't it? It's about finding out what children enjoy doing. That could be quite a wide and varied range of things. Is that the key?\nDawn Bowden AM: It's not all about organised team sports.\nHefin David AM: Yes. As Dawn said, it's not just about organised team sports. There are some very individual activities you could do.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Absolutely, yes. And that's where I think\u2014. I'm delighted that Sport Wales has moved beyond. It's not just about elite sports; it's about getting everybody engaged and active in sports, and that partnership with Public Health Wales that Nathan talked about is really important, because we need a population approach to driving physical activity.\nHefin David AM: So, do you think, with that in mind, we need statutory guidance for schools on physical education?\nDr Frank Atherton: Again, I'd look to the consultation as to whether there was an appetite for any kind of guidance. It may well be that that is something that could be considered.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. And finally, with regard to free school meals to all pupils in primary and secondary schools, do you think that extending that to all pupils would be beneficial in providing a more varied diet for pupils?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I don't have a personal view on that. I think it's the quality of the food that kids are getting, whether that comes from home or through school, and whether it's free or whether it's paid for. I think it's the quality of the food that we need to focus on. The question of children being hungry at school is a really important one and needs to be addressed at a national level. I think that's a\u2014\nHefin David AM: So, you think that's more about the provision of food for those who might not have access to it than providing a varied diet.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: I think it's important that children have access to food, absolutely, if that's your question, but we also need to look at the quality of the food and what's in that food offer.\nHefin David AM: But you don't necessarily think universal provision would\u2014.\nDr Frank Atherton: I don't have a clear view on that. I know there's a larger debate about that.\nHefin David AM: Okay, thank you.\nLynne Neagle AM: I've got some supplementaries from Janet and then Suzy.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes. I've been around some amazing schools in my own constituency, where they've got proper canteen facilities for pupils and really, really good produce in the meals. However, there's probably only a third having school meals; the rest are packed lunches. And, to be honest, I've been very surprised and shocked at what I've seen of the quality of the food in the packed lunches. Nobody can really police, and I wouldn't want to see parents being policed over what goes in a packed lunch, so if there is data out there to suggest that there's a larger percentage of parents providing packed lunched that are really not good at all, then there is some merit to be said for what Hefin is\u2014. Me, personally, I'd love to see the introduction of universal school meals. I think it's been a very retrograde step, going backwards. Would you be willing to carry out any research?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: So, I mean, your point about food that's brought in in the packed lunches is a really important one, and I've talked to some headteachers as well about this. We could go down a route of guidance and prohibition, but that gets you into the role of nanny in chief and I don't really see that as my role or Government's role, and I don't think it's effective either. Do you remember\u2014? You must have seen on tv\u2014I think it was in Scotland; I don't know if it's happened in Wales\u2014parents pushing the fish and chip packets through the school railings. We don't need to get into that. What I have seen, though, is some really good innovative practice in schools where, for example, they reward children for bringing the healthy options. Schools can give guidance to parents about what would be a healthy lunch and what sort of things might be expected to be seen in the lunch box. And you can reward children, and children do respond to rewards. So, I've seen some of those approaches that have transformed, actually, the offer of what comes in school boxes. But I think just banning chocolate bars and crisps in the packed lunch is unlikely to be successful.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: We can't do that. So, my point to the question was: isn't there some merit, perhaps, about all children being equal and eating similar good-quality food in schools?\nDr Frank Atherton: Yes. That gets you back to the question about universal school meals.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Perhaps some of that \u00a356 million sugar tax, even. Who knows?\nLynne Neagle AM: Suzy.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Yes. Mine is just a short question. The draft plan commits, doesn't it, to updating the healthy eating in schools regulations\u2014the 2013 regulations? I appreciate this is a consultation, but what is it that needs changing in those regulations at the moment, just to give us a bit of steer?\n",
      "Nathan Cook: It's mainly on sugar content, so, obviously, they don't adhere to current Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition guidelines around sugar levels. So, what we'd want to consider is, you know, what we need to be careful of is unintended consequences of changing that, as well, if you see a shift to more kids bringing in school packed lunches as well. So, I think we want to consider the best way of doing that and consider through the consultation how we can go about it.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: All right. So, it's very pertinent to Janet's question, in that way. Okay, so it's mainly about sugar, but it could be about other things as well. Okay. Thanks.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay. The next questions are from Janet anyway; firstly, on the clinical obesity pathway.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: The 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' plan commits to a review of the clinical obesity pathway. What are the time frames for this review, and what do you think are the basic essentials of a clinical obesity pathway for children and young people?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: We do have a pathway for managing overweight, and that's been in place since about 2010, I believe, and we do need to bring that up to date in terms of current knowledge and experiences. We've challenged Public Health Wales; we've asked Public Health Wales to undertake a review of that pathway, and they are going through that process now. I'm not sure of exactly the time frame that we have given them for that.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: We were asking them to review the pathway before we launch the final strategy in October because, obviously, what we want is for that to inform what that final strategy looks like. So, we'll be looking probably early autumn for them to report back on that.\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: The second point of your question about what are the essential elements, I mean, they are already there; we need to tweak them and we need to make sure that they're properly delivered. But it's a tiered approach, so, having access to information through schools and through communities and into families is part of the first step of that. And then, if children are overweight, it's a question about how they're identified. There are questions about the ability of the public to recognise large children, so there may be an issue there. But when children are running into issues around weight, what kind of interventions can be put in, either through primary care or through communities through health visitors, et cetera? And then of course we do have\u2014and we've started to shine a light on this, haven't we\u2014the very overweight children. I don't think we have enough in the way of targeted support to be able to support those. There are programmes available, but they're perhaps not universally provided. So, I think there's something about looking at our whole pathway, mapping out what the current evidence now shows us is needed, and then thinking about what is our provision in Wales and what do we need to do to bring that up to the level of the places that are the best.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. The draft plan recognises the importance of the first 1,000 days, but it doesn't appear to include any new proposals to help parents to enable lifestyle changes. It lists existing initiatives, such as the Healthy Child Wales programme and breastfeeding action plan. Are you satisfied that the draft plan does enough to address the influence that family and parents have on children's healthy weight behaviours, particularly in the first 1,000 days?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, the first 1,000 days are really critically in shaping lives, as I'm sure you'd agree. We are absolutely open to any other suggestions that the public or this committee have as to what more we can and should do. There are a number of things, the sorts of programmes you've mentioned, that I think could be more effective. We're currently looking at breastfeeding because it starts before birth, actually. We know that children who are breastfed are less likely to suffer from obesity in childhood and, indeed, to go on to be obese adults. So, we do need to go further on that. We do have some programmes\u2014Healthy Working Wales, et cetera\u2014that need to be improved. If there are other interventions in other areas that we need to take, then we'd be delighted to hear what they are, but those are the ones that have jumped out so far.\n",
      "Nathan Cook: Can I just say\u2014? One of the proposals we're looking for is, obviously, we know that during pregnancy it's a really critical time when we can actually look to work with mothers. We know from looking at some of the behaviour change that it's actually a really critical point when new mothers really start thinking about their lives, wanting the best for their child and their families. So, what we are thinking about is how we could develop some kind of approaches to that going forward. But we know our Healthy Start scheme is also a good lever for us, just in terms of how we can look to improve that kind of dietary offer at the earliest stage as well.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Finally, we know that for some families day-to-day challenges can make it difficult for them to make healthy choices, particularly for those on lower incomes and/or maybe using food banks. Could the Welsh Government take bolder action to better support low-income families to eat healthily?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, you've touched on a really important point about inequalities because overweight and obesity is not evenly distributed across our population. It absolutely is more prevalent in more socioeconomically deprived communities, and that's something that should really concern us all. So, it gets you to questions of availability of fresh food and produce; it gets you to questions of formulation of products and whether value brands are less healthy than more premium brands. So, it cuts across all of those issues that we talked about in terms of settings and in terms of environment earlier. There is something about the affordability of good-quality healthy food that we need to think about. We do need to think in broad terms\u2014broader terms than just obesity, but we do need to think in broad terms\u2014about how we create a society where families have the wherewithal to lead healthy lives, and that gets you to really important questions about the minimum wage and income poverty. There's no doubt in my mind\u2014I'm a public health professional\u2014and there's no doubt in my mind that economic success and health success go hand in hand. So, you speak to a very deep question there. In terms of what we can do through this particular consultation, there are some things in there about providing better access, but without tackling some of those deeper determinants of health, their impact will necessarily be limited.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.\nLynne Neagle AM: Just finally from me, then, you referred earlier to the importance of making every contact count, but some stakeholders have told the committee that they struggle to do that because of difficulties in availability of people to refer to. Is that a situation that you recognise and what, really, can we do to improve that situation?\n",
      "Dr Frank Atherton: Well, it depends what you mean as to where to refer to. So, the health system obviously needs to respond to this issue. What we're seeing across the NHS is a gradual transformation in primary care so that primary care is no longer about going to see your GP, it's about going to see a practice where you have a range of health professionals. Would I like to see more dietetic support, for example, in that setting? Absolutely I would. I think we need to think in terms of that pathway that we were talking about earlier, about access to that kind of advice and support, which can head off people getting into problems and kids getting into problems with weight issues. So, that question of redesign of the pathway really speaks to, I think, your point about, 'Well, where do people go when they have problems with their weight?' That's true for adults and it's true for children as well.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions from Members? No. Okay. Well, can I thank you both very much for your attendance? It's been a really productive session. We appreciate your time. You will be sent a transcript to check for accuracy in due course, but thank you again.\nDr Frank Atherton: We'll do that. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee, because getting some input into the consultation from children's perspectives, this would be one of the routes we would absolutely welcome. Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you very much. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee on CAMHS tier 4 provision. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services also on CAMHS in-patient provision. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Children Commissioner for Wales on tier 4 CAMHS provision. Paper to note 4 is a letter from Qualifications Wales to the Minister for Education on qualifications for the new curriculum. Paper to note 5 is a letter from me to the Minister for Education on the development of the new curriculum. Paper to note 6 is a letter from me to the Minister for Education seeking clarification on the draft additional learning needs code. Paper to note 7 is a letter from me to the Minister for Education seeking clarification on the response to our Brexit report. Paper to note 8 is a letter from the Equality and Human Rights Commission on a cumulative impact assessment briefing for committee, which has been offered. Paper to note 9 is a letter from the Chair of the Petitions Committee on a national taskforce for children\u2019s mental health. Paper to note 10 is a letter to the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union from the children\u2019s commissioners for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland on the implications of Brexit for children. There are a few that I'd like to return to in private, but are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Okay. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content?\n"
    ],
    "length": 11874,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 29,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "After Project Manager's brief review of the last meeting, Marketing began a presentation of the user requirements. It frustrated users most when they failed to find the lost remote control. The market research also revealed a necessity to simplify the remote control interface, for most buttons were not used. User Interface and Industrial Designer agreed on the intuitive interface design with menu navigation on an LCD screen and very few buttons involved. The new remote control would only be for basic functions such as volume adjusting and channel flipping. A separate joystick would be for additional functionality. The new remote control would be the integration of original remote controls for different devices. Voice recognition would not be feasible due to the budget limit. A speaker and a transmitter were desirable, however, for the location function.",
    "docs": [
      "Marketing: Just put it on the deskt {gap} desktop .\nProject Manager: No on the desktop you'll find you should find that there's a project documents link . A well actually just there .\nMarketing: Project documents ,\nProject Manager: Yeah . That's it .\nMarketing: yeah .\nProject Manager: If you dump it in there .\nMarketing: What's your username ?\nProject Manager: Your username .\nMarketing: What's your username and password ? Mm-hmm . Sorry .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Okay . There we go .\n",
      "Project Manager: Excellent . Right . Hopefully that's us ready to uh to go . So . Functional design meeting . We'll have to flesh out some of the uh stuff . Um we'll start with the minutes of the last meeting . Not a lot thankfully to say . We introduced ourselves , discussed the possibility of a macro facility , interac interacting the T_V_ a bit more , um mentioning of bar-code , joystick for user manipulation , um and ergonomics of the remote control as well . Um it's come to my attention the following . Teletext has become outdated due to the populat popularity of the internet . Remote control should only be used for the T_V_ . Um due for uh time to market and possibly also cost issues . Um also key is the corporate image should stay recognisable , um f uh your colour and slogan of course is down at the bottom there . Um . Now . Just to say quickly uh I would have thought that only being used for a television the macro facility may now not be required .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Um or at l its functionality would have been of limited use . So to the point in my opinion anyway that it might not be worth pursuing . Um if anybody disagrees we can uh definitely say so . Um and hopefully we'll just crack on and we'll get everything going . Um I'd like to if possible hear from our Marketing Expert first , to help us gain an idea of where we're going to go .\nMarketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: So um I'll just load up your presentation from here if you want .\nMarketing: Sure . Um , sh would you like to {vocalsound} I'll just do it from here .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yep . Sorry . Uh . Is yours the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Um , try second one maybe . Try it , yeah maybe .\nProject Manager: Oh sorry . Okay , right .\nMarketing: Yeah . Okay . Oh , I thought I put in my last name , I guess not , but {gap} .\nProject Manager: Uh if you {disfmarker} that's all right . If you {disfmarker} do you want me to just cycle through it for you or ?\nMarketing: Okay . {vocalsound} Oh yeah , that'd be fine , that'd be great .\nProject Manager: Yeah ?\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . Functional requirement by me Ebenezer . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Okay , so um we did some research , we asked one hundred people their opinions on remote controls . We asked some uh open ended questions , just , what are your opinions on the remote control , got a lot of re responses , and we asked some very specific questions , and we got a lot of good feedback . Please bear in mind this is only a hundred people , so even when the groups are divided into fifteen to twenty five , twenty five to thirty five , there's only maybe ten people {vocalsound} fifteen people in each group .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . {vocalsound} So we got {disfmarker} some the bad stuff we got , remotes are often lost . I often lose my remote control , the back of the couch , some place , and even if it's not lost permanently , it takes me a few minutes to find it . {vocalsound} Most buttons are not used any more , like you said , teletext is outdated now . I remember trying to load a D_V_D_ player recently , and there were so many buttons , it took me I don't know maybe ten minutes to to go through each button , 'cause you have to press the shift button to access the yellow buttons , you know there's just a lot of stuff that no one really uses . And if they do , not very often . Takes too long to master the remote control . I've seen some remote controls that are big , they have a lot of buttons , you have to hold down more than one key at one time to do something , they're just not great to use . We just got a lot of bad complaints about remote controls , people do not like remote controls . Some of the good stuff we got . Between the age of uh fifteen and twenty five , most people would be willing to pay extra for voice recognition software . Now don't get excited yet , I've got more to say on that . Most people'd be willing to pay for that um most people want remote controls to be pretty , they want it to be fancy , th they they want it to be different , everybody has a white remote control with black buttons , and a red button and a green button , not everybody wants that . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Finally , my opinion .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yep .\n",
      "Marketing: The voice recognition thing is cool . And uh voice recognition , the software , open source software exist already . It's a bit sketchy at some times , uh , you're not gonna get good always accurate results , but for a very fixed number of words , you know you have , how many different words can you have for a remote control , up , down , left , right , channel five , channel seven , you know , how many , you can't have that many words . For a fixed vocabulary it works quite well . I'm pretty sure people would buy it . But after a while people may wanna return it , because {vocalsound} if you have to to say som I mean most people use a remote control for switching to channels , and they say they do that about ninety eight percent of the time . Using the remote control , ninety eight percent of the time for changing channels , and that's for flickering through channels . So if you have to say up , up , up , up , if you have to do that all the time , then people might get a bit fed up with that and they may return it . {vocalsound} However , {vocalsound} oh , because the voice recognition software exists already , there's no need to spend money on research and development , but this does mean the need for microphones in the in the remote control , which is an unusual feature in my opinion . But if we do have the voice recognition thing , there's a lot of stuff that you can uh get rid of . See , you could {disfmarker} there're two options . Either you have voice recognition by itself , which I think is a bit impractical for like night time if you wanna be watching television and you wanna be quiet , or I don't know you have a visitor coming round and the remote's only trained for you , it's a bit impractical to have just voice recognition by itself . So you can have voice recognition and a regular remote . But imagine you got rid of the regular remote part , then you can design the remote to look any way you want it to look , because there are no restrictions on physical size , or shape , it it could be as fancy as you want it to be , you know , it could be like a lollipop or something like that , something weird like that . As long as the voice recognition stuff works , that's that's fine .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , yep .\n",
      "Marketing: So we have the three birds , we have the design , that {vocalsound} we have the the fancy bit , right , the voice recognition's fancy , it's cool , it's different , it's radical , so , and then we have an extra bit I don't remember {vocalsound} so I'm pretty sure people will buy the remote , but is it practical to have a voice recognition system in a remote control , I think is a big question . Um , will people will people be willing to wait for the the period that it'll take to train the remote , 'cause I think it will the remote will uh get better over time with the same user user , but for the first week or for the first two weeks are you willing to wait , are you willing to have a bad remote control . {vocalsound} And uh what if you have visitors come round , they stay the night , they wanna use the T_V_ , they can't use the remote because they speak differently to you . Um , how do you account for regional accents and stuff like that . Uh , will people return the remote control , {vocalsound} I think a lot of young people will buy the remote control , if they have the money , you know , so ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . If you could uh\nMarketing: do our audience have the money , but would they return it after a while because it's not as fast as pressing a button , it's not a practical . So . These are things I think we should consider .\nProject Manager: sor\nMarketing: I think it's cool ,\nProject Manager: if you could speed it up a bit , yeah . If you could uh speed it up a bit please , yeah .\nMarketing: I'm sorry ? Sure .\nProject Manager: Sorry .\nMarketing: I'm about to end , yeah .\nProject Manager: Cool .\nMarketing: I think it's cool but there are definitely some considerations .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . Excellent .\nMarketing: So , yeah .\nProject Manager: Right . Um . Hear from the {vocalsound} User Interface Designer now I think might be an idea .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Um , you've got your presentation now ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} How did {disfmarker} where did {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , it's in the it's in the folder\nProject Manager: is it on the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: where did you get all your in information {gap} ?\nUser Interface: yeah .\nProject Manager: is it ? Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: There was uh a website , uh ,\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Technical functions ?\nMarketing: right here .\nIndustrial Designer: Ah , okay .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: No . Yeah . Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay , this is a {vocalsound} brief run through of the um of the technical functions of the remote . As um is uh the the the presentation is uh already slightly obsolete because I {vocalsound} had in mind something that would uh be i be aimed at controlling multiple devices but uh there's still stuff of relevance , so\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: press on . I've looked at {vocalsound} looked at a num {vocalsound} uh couple of other uh remote control models just for an idea of basic design principles . Um and wasn't really satisfied by what I saw I have to say so this is more sort of springboard for uh how these could be improved on . {vocalsound} Um um basically the job of the device is to send commands to an appliance , in this case the television set . Um to save you getting off your backside . Um and there's two main trends in th in the sort of design practice . On the one hand {disfmarker} and this uh this particularly relates to its sort of earliest models where with you know i so so many buttons on it so about the size of the television set . Um giving you every possible function that the that the device has , the remote control controls . And most of these functions are not going to be used , it creates a rather user unfriendly interface . And on the other hand there's a user focused approach that pares things down to just what {vocalsound} what is most likely to get used . Um {vocalsound} With uh {disfmarker} a and a and of course there is a certain amount of sort of loss of function here obviously , but mostly that's relatively peripheral functions . And so you go for something that's fairly intuitive to use , and um well f the for the most part for T_V_ remote it's uh tha that would be channel control and volume . Um and if you {vocalsound} if you if you are wanting to incorporate uh control of a D_V_ {vocalsound} D_V_D_ or uh {vocalsound} V_C_R_ presumably into that then there's a play , pause , stop , rewind , fast-forward , record , so forth . Um . My own view is that we should definitely be going for a user focused design . Um but uh the pro {vocalsound} I think the problem with a lot of the sort of user focused designs that are about is that they sort of make assumptions in advance about what uh what a given user's going to uh want mo want to do from {vocalsound} want it to do most . So , something that's uh {vocalsound} something that is more programmable , that uh perh perhaps has the full range of functions available to it but you can then specify yourself what you're most likely to want . Um so that those are then immediately {vocalsound} accessible through fairly minimal number of controls , um I liked Ebenezer's idea of including a joystick in that and uh possibly a sort of fairly minimal number of sort of function buttons , and have a disp {vocalsound} you then have some sort of basic display on it so that if you're um sort of cha changing from different modes for the device it'll tell you just exactly what uh you know each direction of the uh of the um joystick's {vocalsound} going to do or wha or what each function button's going to do . Um , this is actually {gap} a again slightly taking inspiration off of uh games controllers , you know the Playstation control where you have four basic function buttons\n",
      "Marketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: that are just marked with um distinctive uh geometrical shapes but the {vocalsound} and then dependent on what you're doing with it what game and so on um those uh those functions are then sort of further specified . And so it's taking taking the lead from that . Um .\nProject Manager: Okay . Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} That's it .\nProject Manager: Right . Um , if we could hear from our Industrial engineer , or Designer .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh , I was still working on stuff , I hadn't got it finished . Um , {vocalsound} alright . Click to save in {disfmarker} where do I have to save it ?\nProject Manager: If you look on the desktop you'll find that there's a link to the project folder , or project documents . If you save it in there we can open it up from here .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um , what I've done with it , I'm sorry . Shit . Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Are you finding it okay or ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I'm just {gap} closing it now . {gap} where I've saved it .\nMarketing: Well like if you go to one , uh whichever one you were working {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} that's it there ,\nMarketing: yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nMarketing: and you just click file save as .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh right . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh , right I'm responsible for working design , uh , this is basically the inside going on of the the uh remote control . So we have the energy source , we have the user interface , this this is what I've seen . Uh the sender will push the button , the chip will respond , uh and then the dig digital signal is sent to the T_V_ . So uh uh , if you go to next slide , you'll see you'll see uh what do we need on the user interface . Do we need uh many buttons , or do we need l many light bulbs that could be easier to uh to realise which appliances are on or not . Um , {vocalsound} , or would that take too much power , would we need more um components in there to supply the power ? Um , the joystick is another thing , if we were gonna add that , um , there'd be more components to deal with that .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Um {vocalsound} , so uh we need to {disfmarker} I dunno exactly what {disfmarker} That's the design of the the the layout of the uh electronic design , um obviously there'll be more details once we've decided what we're putting on the user interface .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: So , that'll be decided , I guess . {vocalsound} Uh , and the next slide . Oh , yeah {disfmarker} Um , if you go to the next slide then .\nProject Manager: Oh . Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I just used the {vocalsound} it was a mess , uh I was just putting adding it together at the end there . Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Ah , don't worry about it at all mate . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh so you have the energy source obviously connected to the chip , and the user interface obviously contains everything . You have the switch turn it on , infrared bulb , uh will contact the T_V_ and will have whatever device or D_V_D_ player , the bulb will turn on to say it's on . Uh , so do we need on the control uh different buttons to decide , or different light bulbs , would it be easier ? Um , I dunno what we should decide on that .\nProject Manager: Okay . Well . Oh sorry , I'm I'm interrupting you . Are you {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No , it's finished , yeah .\nProject Manager: yeah ? Okay . Right . Um , {vocalsound} right we can probably skip that for now . So , we've had some stuff put forward , um along with the new user requirements , um we've had a lot of kind of input I'd say so far . Um I hear what the Marketing Expert's saying about {vocalsound} um voice activated control . However I've got a couple of worries about that . {vocalsound} The power required , um and the ability to the cost , it seems like for uh an embedded system , this could cause us issues .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Cost . Mm .\nProject Manager: Um for example you see that there's fairly robust services on uh computers via uh via voice , I_B_M_ do um drag and dictate , but these require a lot of memory\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: and usually um state quite advanced processor requirements . Um voice activation could be an interesting idea but I think that our Ind Industrial Designer would probably upon some research say that it's maybe not feasible .\nMarketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: Um that's just my view right now ,\nUser Interface: Mm . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: however the idea of a joystick and then maybe an L_C_D_ which has been kind of put forward so far , it's almost like having a small T_ not T_V_ to say , but if you can control almost all of the functionality from the display , I don't know how much power an L_C_D_ would take , but it might be quite low ?\nMarketing: Mm . I uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: L_C_D_ on the remote just telling you what's on , or {vocalsound} uh , interactive L_C_D_ or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Well literally um if you can imagine the display maybe slightly larger than um those on a {vocalsound} a mobile phone ,\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: something where you can read an an um fair amount of information , traverse maybe quite a few menus , if we maybe used mobile phones as a good example , they usually incorporate they have the keypad , and then evr all the other functionality is usually associated inside by traversing around .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: That could be one possibility . Um and then we could have like say the common buttons as you say , volume control , changing channels {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Mm . {gap} I I was thinking that the remote {vocalsound} the um {vocalsound} sort of default functions for the joystick would be up and down for uh volume , left and right for channels .\nProject Manager: We {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Do you think that people will get mixed up , like , they'll be looking at this screen and that screen and then , you know , trying to get everything working , would it be a bit confusing ?\nUser Interface: Um I think probably for the first couple of hours of using it\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: um but you know muscle memory's a wonderful thing , um . And I think {vocalsound} and I think that size of uh display was about what I had in mind .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Um though I mean I w I would say that uh we could probably probably be required to um mo most of the mobile phone displays you see these days are colour but we should probably try to stick to black and white .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I would agree with you .\n",
      "User Interface: Si si simply to keep m keep the unit cost down . Um I mean colour could be a sort of subsequent development but uh you know cost a bit of extra money f w w w w w once everyone's got the first , you know , oh colour's out , we'll have to replace it won't we .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It does nothing extra .\nProject Manager: That would be my feeling as well , I think we could possibly create quite a useful user interface . Um now I mean I don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Sure but the idea of a remote with a menu or {disfmarker} and a joystick I think like I h if I was in the habit of buying remote controls then I would want one ,\nProject Manager: sorry , go for it .\nMarketing: but I think we don't have a specific audience , you know , like what is our target audience , what niche are {disfmarker} niche are we trying to market and corner . You know , you know what I'm saying , like , for whom is this intended ? Everybody ?\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} I think it could probably be aimed at most people who've used a mobile . And that might be just another way of saying try to target most people .\nMarketing: Most people , yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Um , if we are if we were to follow that avenue , we might be s you know um we're kind of almost relying on their experience with a mobile phone I suppose . But that does cover a very large section of the people out there .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Sure . I think that's fair {vocalsound} yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um , I mean I imagine as well that the actual L_C_D_ and maybe to a certain extent the joystick as well would be for the additional functionality . Which maybe doesn't get used as often , maybe it makes it easy for them to figure out how to um change the channels as in the frequencies and such for reprogramming it .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um and you can still have the main buttons that allow the people to turn the machine on and off , d up and down , it depends , I mean maybe we have the fol um the joystick as a separate one for the other functions then , that there's just a a small number of as you were saying uh buttons that have already been defined .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: So like we go for the nice standard um up and down for and volume control . So that literally anybody can come along , pick up the remote and still know what do do . And they can completely ignore most of the functionality which would be for say the o actual owner of the the T_V_\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: and who would normally use the unit .\nUser Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} I th the thing I like about the uh the uh joystick\nProject Manager: I dunno .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: is that uh you you you then basically you can then basically put it I mean for for T_ T_ for T_V_ remote alone , you could put um I mean there are {disfmarker} like I say the the the main things people do with a T_V_ remote control is the volume and the channel . You can pack all that onto was onto a single control . Um .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: But uh but the {vocalsound} but then o uh obviously if uh you know if you i if you wanted to access further functions i {vocalsound} you you then get to sort of menu navigation . I mean with things like ch with things like tuning and channels um you know adjusting brightn uh brightness and {vocalsound} fiddly things that no one really bothers with , most T_V_s these days actually have menus anyway so this would be a fairly rational way of integra {gap}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: integrating the uh the remote with the device it's controlling . Um {gap} concern about our market . Um , if we are I mean most of the uh of the replacement remote market is sort of {gap} remote control rationalisation . Um , you've got twenty different devices in your living room ,\nMarketing: Yeah . Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: you want one wo {vocalsound} y you want one that'll do the job of all of them . Um , if all you're replacing is one of the you know however many remotes you have in your living room , um you know you still need separate remotes for everything else .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: I just think that uh possibly {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well this is a requirement that we have to stick to I'm afraid ,\nUser Interface: mm .\nProject Manager: this isn't one that I've just arbitrarily decided on .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: So um this is this is one of the solid ones that has to be obeyed , for now .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: So I can understand your point , and I would agree with you , but this is our design spec for now . 'Fraid to say . Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Does that um would that include um access to say {vocalsound} interactive functions on digital or cable ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: I would say so , yes , because then we have to be able to control the remote boxes , and that is a separate unit . Um I think that it {disfmarker} I would say that the design spec we've been {gap} with is for the television only for now .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And until we hear otherwise we should go with just that .\nMarketing: Hmm . Okay , specifically television .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay . Maybe we'll hear differently , but for now {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So the joystick is just for differentness .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: It would be ease of manipulation of certain functions , yes . Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Just a thought . {vocalsound} Um maybe then our market should be T_V_ manufacturers , rather than the public . Try and sell it t sell it to them to supply with um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: There is that possibility , yes . B However I don't know exactly where we'll be going with that , but it might not even be the avenue of the Marketing Expert ,\nMarketing: Mm . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: that might be sales , who are not in this meeting .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . It's just , the way I figure it , twelve point five Euros per unit , we have to sell at least like three million or something like that ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: not to account for all the the money we waste on remotes that no one buys , you know , like if we made a perf if we made a ks for every remote we made someone bought it , then we have to sell a lot of remote controls .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: We just {disfmarker} Is this gonna be enough to to sell ?\nProject Manager: Well , something else that you brought up was uh the ability to lose a remote , which as you said you've done , in fact we've probably all done .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um , I don't know if it's a gimmick or not , but have any of you ever seen those odd little key rings where if you whistle , it will beep and you {disfmarker} tell you where it is .\nUser Interface: Mm , yeah , I've seen them .\nMarketing: I had one of those , and my brother , and my dad , could have beat me up\nProject Manager: Um . Well\nMarketing: because it it went off all the time accidentally .\nProject Manager: the other option of course is that um the\nMarketing: The clapping one . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: well {disfmarker} I was going to say clapping , um {disfmarker} Um digital telephones , uh for example , one unit has {disfmarker} of course you have to have that base unit , somewhere where there's a button , but maybe it's a button that you attach to the T_V_ .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nMarketing: To a television . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Something which you when you press that , it would beep to give its location away , on the remote unit .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I think that's a good idea .\n",
      "Project Manager: And that could be something could um separate us a bit .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's a good idea .\nProject Manager: And that way , because we're attaching what would be a small button to the T_V_ , again say what , it would be a small transmitter , um watch battery type scenario I would say , or something that if it was problems enough you could actually even just um I don't {disfmarker} power {gap} that might be something that we could look into .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yep . Yeah , it's uh putting a lot on your shoulders there , so I mean that could be something that separates us a bit from the market as well .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I think so , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So . To go on from here . Um we have to decide exactly what we're going to do with the remote . Before we leave this meeting , it would be best to say this is what we're going {disfmarker} this is the design we're gonna try and get , this is how we're gonna make ourselves look unique .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Do we go for maybe a remote contro uh sorry , we're gonna go for a remote control obviously , do we go for a small joystick that would operate say changing channels , up and down , and then , what , another button that would say that it's now being used to manoeuvre round the L_C_D_ .\nUser Interface: Mm yeah . Yeah , I think that's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: We're just saying volume . Should volume be important in the joystick , do you think ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: We could use say the left and right for changing channels and the up and down for volume ,\nUser Interface: For volume .\n",
      "Project Manager: and {disfmarker}\nMarketing: But we have a frequency of how what people use a remote control for most .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Um , power is used like once per hour ,\nIndustrial Designer: I\nMarketing: channel selection is used a hundred and sixty eight per hour ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: that's by far the biggest one , and then teletext , is still here , that's like fourteen ,\nProject Manager: Vol Volume selection okay , yep ,\nMarketing: and volume selection .\n",
      "Project Manager: the teletext we're gambling with , and we're gonna say it's dead , the way of the dodo {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , yeah , okay okay . Yeah , um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: So we {disfmarker} well , sorry , we could maybe even go as far as saying power button , small joystick , L_C_D_ , and then what maybe is it one more button to say that you're using the menu system , and with the possibility of pushing down on the joystick to say okay ? So we're having very very few buttons involved ,\n",
      "User Interface: Actually how {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: but navigation around a menu for most things .\nUser Interface: Actually I would say maybe two two function buttons , the {disfmarker} y we're now using the menus button and um and an og and an okay button . I mean certainly something I've found with the joystick on mo the joysticks on mobile phones is that a lot of the time th the device mistakes you trying to move it in one direction or the other for pushing down for okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Or vice versa .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: And that's really irritating .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} The o the o the other dis design constraint I think we should bear in mind is that people are you know very much used to using a remote control one handedly , um , so we need to make sure that e even with the joystick , you know something that can just sit comfortably in the palm of the hand and have the joystick just controlled by the thumb .\nProject Manager: Okay . So um we're actually that sounds like a rough idea . Do we incorporate the idea of trying to f locate the remote control again via a beeping noise ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , think so .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you mind looking {gap} ?\nMarketing: Um , I think because it's so small it might be an uh I mean if we only have like two three buttons it might be essential to have to have that {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: The ability to locate it again .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So that would require a um transmitter maybe attached to the T_V_ , just so that it says find me , and {vocalsound} what , a basically a small microphone um on the actual unit , can maybe hide it in the base .\nIndustrial Designer: Light bulb as well ,\n",
      "User Interface: Oh . So {vocalsound} so\nIndustrial Designer: no ?\nProject Manager: Sorry ?\nUser Interface: a small speaker you mean .\nProject Manager: Some speaker ,\nMarketing: Speaker {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: sorry , yeah .\nMarketing: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: And a light bulb ? No . To flash . No .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Nah , you'd see it anyway , if you hear it .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} E us we might be better with the sound possibly {disfmarker} we could maybe incorporate\n",
      "Marketing: W those little key-rings have both ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: th e the true fact , considering the cost of an L_E_D_ , we could just incorporate it anyway .\nMarketing: so {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProject Manager: The L_E_D_s can be surprisingly bright now .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Blue ones particularly .\nProject Manager: Um . {vocalsound} So\nUser Interface: Plus that's a nice wee design touch .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: by the sounds of it , with what we're suggesting so far , your design um the user interface is still quite open , you could go for quite an interesting design .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Because we're only going to have a very few key and you've got you know a small L_C_D_ , joystick , e I think it leaves you open to a a potential wide range of shapes , something that can make it stand out slightly .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um if you could look into what we've suggested so far , the feasibility of um small transmitter , um and such , maybe if an L_C_D_ screen requires too much power , or such . Ebenezer , um , Marketing Expert {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well I can give you the frequency , what people what options people use most often , I guess that's gonna be important in the ts defining the the software side of the interface , right .\nProject Manager: If ,\nMarketing: You want the stuff {gap} .\n",
      "Project Manager: yeah if you could maybe as well see what people think about the idea of this minimalist approach that we've taken , where of a joystick to control the very basic functions , and then the idea of manipulating it like you would a mobile .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: I don't know how easy that will be within the time frame ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: but could be something we could maybe look into .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Sure . Sure .\nProject Manager: Okay . Um any last comments that anybody would like to put forward ? Anything that they think has been missed out . Bit of a wide open question there of course .\nMarketing: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Feel free to email me if you think that uh we've screwed something up and wanna get it rectified as soon as possible .\nMarketing: Sure . 'Kay . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Right .\nIndustrial Designer: So I should just look at um the speaker , {gap} the speaker and an L_E_D_ .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Speaker and L_E_D_ for locating , um ,\nIndustrial Designer: And {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Transmitter {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , and a transmitter .\nProject Manager: transmitter {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Actually one one wee thought about that . Um , if we do end up trying to market this to television manufacturers then the um then the transmitter could actually be built into the television .\nProject Manager: {gap} getting the external power source , yep , that's quite true . Um , and something that we can can easily be adopted at the last minute as well I'd say .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: The electronics could be s either placed externally or internally , makes no difference to the final product of the actual remote control ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: so that's good .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} You know I think\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: I mean if it w if we get a major television manufacturer to say y oh yeah we'll have that , save us the bother , then that's you know vast amounts of sales . Quite quickly .\nIndustrial Designer: P\nProject Manager: Oh , one thing that we've almost not talked about at all , my apologies for that , um , user interface , we also need to maybe get the slogan in here , um it's ,\nIndustrial Designer: Fashion .\n",
      "Project Manager: I'm pointing at my laptop , what in God {disfmarker} Real reaction , and such . So um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: The slogan is {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Oh , sorry .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah , the slogan's we put the fashion in electronics , isn't it ?\nProject Manager: My apologies . No it could well be , I've probably missed that . Um , I think that's l almost the last minute thing\nIndustrial Designer: 'S also look cool .\nProject Manager: we can just incorporate into the actual plastic on top .\nUser Interface: Mm .\n"
    ],
    "length": 8605,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 30,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting focused on the results from the existing model, speeding up the backend for feature direction, and a few tangential topics being developed for future exploration. The team was unsure why their model was not performing as well as they expected it to, and they suspected that their smaller dataset might be at fault. They also discussed how they could improve the performance of the backend model by improving feature detection. The meeting ended with some students sharing the tangential fields they were exploring and a brief discussion on the different pronunciations of zero.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor A: We 're going ? OK . Sh - Close your door on {disfmarker} door on the way out ?\nGrad B: OK . Thanks .\nProfessor A: Thanks .\nGrad B: Oh .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Probably wanna get this other door , too . OK . So . Um . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} What are we talking about today ?\nPhD E: Uh , well , first there are perhaps these uh Meeting Recorder digits that we tested .\nProfessor A: Oh , yeah . That was kind of uh interesting .\nPhD E: So .\n",
      "Professor A: The {disfmarker} both the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the SRI System and the oth\nPhD E: Um .\nProfessor A: And for one thing that {disfmarker} that sure shows the {vocalsound} difference between having a lot of uh training data {vocalsound} or not ,\nPhD E: Of data ? Yeah .\nProfessor A: uh , the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The best kind of number we have on the English uh {disfmarker} on near microphone only is {disfmarker} is uh three or four percent .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: And uh it 's significantly better than that , using fairly simple front - ends {vocalsound} on {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , with the SRI system .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: So I th I think that the uh {disfmarker} But that 's {disfmarker} that 's using uh a {disfmarker} a pretty huge amount of data , mostly not digits , of course , but {disfmarker} but then again {disfmarker} Well , yeah . In fact , mostly not digits for the actual training the H M Ms whereas uh in this case we 're just using digits for training the H M\nPhD E: Yeah . Right .\n",
      "Professor A: Did anybody mention about whether the {disfmarker} the SRI system is a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} is {disfmarker} is doing the digits um the wor as a word model or as uh a sub s sub - phone states ?\nPhD E: I guess it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh allophone models ,\nProfessor A: Yeah . Probably .\nPhD E: so , well {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Huh ?\nPhD E: Yeah . I think so , because it 's their very d huge , their huge system .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: And . But . So . There is one difference {disfmarker} Well , the SRI system {disfmarker} the result for the SRI system that are represented here are with adaptation . So there is {disfmarker} It 's their complete system and {disfmarker} including on - line uh unsupervised adaptation .\nProfessor A: That 's true .\nPhD E: And if you don't use adaptation , the error rate is around fifty percent worse , I think , if I remember .\nProfessor A: OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: It 's tha it 's that much , huh ?\n",
      "PhD E: Nnn . It 's {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's quite significant .\nProfessor A: Oh . OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Still .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: But {disfmarker} but uh what {disfmarker} what I think I 'd be interested to do given that , is that we {disfmarker} we should uh {vocalsound} take {disfmarker} I guess that somebody 's gonna do this , right ? {disfmarker} is to take some of these tandem things and feed it into the SRI system , right ?\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: We can do something like that .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Because {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah . But {disfmarker} But I guess the main point is the data because uh {vocalsound} I am not sure . Our back - end is {disfmarker} is fairly simple but until now , well , the attempts to improve it or {disfmarker} have fail Ah , well , I mean uh what Chuck tried to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to do\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah , but he 's doing it with the same data , right ? I mean so to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's two things being affected .\nPhD E: Yeah . So it 's {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor A: I mean . One is that {disfmarker} that , you know , there 's something simple that 's wrong with the back - end . We 've been playing a number of states\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: uh I {disfmarker} I don't know if he got to the point of playing with the uh number of Gaussians yet\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: but {disfmarker} but uh , uh , you know . But , yeah , so far he hadn't gotten any big improvement ,\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: but that 's all with the same amount of data which is pretty small .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: And um .\n",
      "PhD E: Mmm . So , yeah , we could retrain some of these tandem on {disfmarker} on huge {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Well , you could do that , but I 'm saying even with it not {disfmarker} with that part not retrained , just {disfmarker} just using {disfmarker} having the H M Ms {disfmarker} much better H M\nPhD E: Ah , yeah . Just {disfmarker} f for the HMM models .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Um . {vocalsound} But just train those H M Ms using different features , the features coming from our Aurora stuff .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: So .\nPhD E: Yeah . But {vocalsound} what would be interesting to see also is what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} perhaps it 's not related , the amount of data but the um recording conditions . I don't know . Because {vocalsound} it 's probably not a problem of noise , because our features are supposed to be robust to noise .\nProfessor A: Well , yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: It 's not a problem of channel , because there is um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} normalization with respect to the channel . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry . What {disfmarker} what is the problem that you 're trying to explain ?\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} the fact that {disfmarker} the result with the tandem and Aurora system are {vocalsound} uh so much worse .\nProfessor A: That the {disfmarker} Oh . So much worse ? Oh .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: I uh but I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm almost certain that it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean , that it has to do with the um amount of training data .\nPhD E: It {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: It {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's orders of magnitude off .\nPhD E: Yeah but {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah but we train only on digits and it 's {disfmarker} it 's a digit task , so . Well .\n",
      "Professor A: But {disfmarker} but having a huge {disfmarker} If {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you look at what commercial places do , they use a huge amount of data .\nPhD E: It {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: This is a modest amount of data .\nPhD E: Alright . Yeah .\nProfessor A: So . {vocalsound} I mean , ordinarily you would say \" well , given that you have enough occurrences of the digits , you can just train with digits rather than with , you know \" {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: But the thing is , if you have a huge {disfmarker} in other words , do word models {disfmarker} But if you have a huge amount of data then you 're going to have many occurrences of similar uh allophones .\nPhD E: Right . Mmm .\nProfessor A: And that 's just a huge amount of training for it .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: So it 's {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I think it has to be that , because , as you say , this is , you know , this is near - microphone ,\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: it 's really pretty clean data .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Um . Now , some of it could be the fact that uh {disfmarker} let 's see , in the {disfmarker} in these multi - train things did we include noisy data in the training ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: I mean , that could be hurting us actually , for the clean case .\nPhD E: Yeah . Well , actually we see that the clean train for the Aurora proposals are {disfmarker} are better than the multi - train ,\nProfessor A: It is if {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD E: yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Cuz this is clean data , and so that 's not too surprising .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: But um . Uh . So .\n",
      "PhD E: Well , o I guess what I meant is that well , let 's say if we {disfmarker} if we add enough data to train on the um on the Meeting Recorder digits , I guess we could have better results than this .\nProfessor A: Uh - huh . Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: And . What I meant is that perhaps we can learn something uh from this , what 's {disfmarker} what 's wrong uh what {disfmarker} what is different between TI - digits and these digits and {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: What kind of numbers are we getting on TI - digits ?\n",
      "PhD E: It 's point eight percent , so .\nProfessor A: Oh . I see .\nPhD E: Four - Fourier .\nProfessor A: So in the actual TI - digits database we 're getting point eight percent ,\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor A: and here we 're getting three or four {disfmarker} three , let 's see , three for this ?\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Sure , but I mean , um point eight percent is something like double uh or triple what people have gotten who 've worked very hard at doing that .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: And {disfmarker} and also , as you point out , there 's adaptation in these numbers also . So if you , you know , put the ad adap take the adaptation off , then it {disfmarker} for the English - Near you get something like two percent .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nProfessor A: And here you had , you know , something like three point four . And I could easily see that difference coming from this huge amount of data that it was trained on .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: You know , I don't think there 's anything magical here .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: It 's , you know , we used a simple HTK system with a modest amount of data . And this is a {disfmarker} a , you know , modern {vocalsound} uh system uh has {disfmarker} has a lot of nice points to it .\nPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Um . So . I mean , the HTK is an older HTK , even . So . Yeah it {disfmarker} it 's not that surprising .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: But to me it just {disfmarker} it just meant a practical {vocalsound} point that um if we want to {vocalsound} publish results on digits that {disfmarker} that people pay {vocalsound} attention to we probably should uh {disfmarker} Cuz we 've had the problem before that you get {disfmarker} show some {vocalsound} nice improvement on something that 's {disfmarker} that 's uh , uh {disfmarker} it seems like too large a number , and uh {vocalsound} uh people don't necessarily take it so seriously .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Um . Yeah . Yeah . So the three point four percent for this uh is {disfmarker} is uh {disfmarker} So why is it {disfmarker} It 's an interesting question though , still . Why is {disfmarker} why is it three point four percent for the d the digits recorded in this environment as opposed to {vocalsound} the uh point eight percent for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for the original TI - digits database ? Um .\nPhD E: Yeah . th that 's {disfmarker} th that 's my point\n",
      "Professor A: Given {disfmarker} given the same {disfmarker} Yeah . So ignore {disfmarker} ignoring the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the SRI system for a moment ,\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't I {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: just looking at {vocalsound} the TI - di the uh tandem system , if we 're getting point eight percent , which , yes , it 's high . It 's , you know , it {disfmarker} it 's not awfully high ,\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: but it 's , you know {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's high . Um . {vocalsound} Why is it {vocalsound} uh four times as high , or more ?\nPhD E: Yeah , I guess .\nProfessor A: Right ? I mean , there 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} even though it 's close - miked there 's still {disfmarker} there really is background noise .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Um . And {vocalsound} uh I suspect when the TI - digits were recorded if somebody fumbled or said something wrong or something that they probably made them take it over .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: It was not {disfmarker} I mean there was no attempt to have it be realistic in any {disfmarker} in any sense at all .\n",
      "PhD E: Well . Yeah . And acoustically , it 's q it 's {disfmarker} I listened . It 's quite different . TI - digit is {disfmarker} it 's very , very clean and it 's like studio recording\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: whereas these Meeting Recorder digits sometimes you have breath noise and Mmm .\nProfessor A: Right . Yeah . So I think they were {disfmarker}\nPhD E: It 's {nonvocalsound} not controlled at all , I mean .\nProfessor A: Bless you .\nGrad B: Thanks .\n",
      "Professor A: I {disfmarker} Yeah . I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} So . Yes .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . But\nProfessor A: It 's {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's the indication it 's harder .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: Uh . {vocalsound} Yeah and again , you know , i that 's true either way . I mean so take a look at the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , the SRI results . I mean , they 're much much better , but still you 're getting something like one point three percent for uh things that are same data as in T {disfmarker} TI - digits the same {disfmarker} same text .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Uh . And uh , I 'm sure the same {disfmarker} same system would {disfmarker} would get , you know , point {disfmarker} point three or point four or something {vocalsound} on the actual TI - digits . So this {disfmarker} I think , on both systems the {vocalsound} these digits are showing up as harder .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nProfessor A: Um .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Which I find sort of interesting cause I think this is closer to {disfmarker} uh I mean it 's still read . But I still think it 's much closer to {disfmarker} to what {disfmarker} what people actually face , {vocalsound} um when they 're {disfmarker} they 're dealing with people saying digits over the telephone . I mean . {vocalsound} I don't think uh {disfmarker} I mean , I 'm sure they wouldn't release the numbers , but I don't think that uh {vocalsound} the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the companies that {disfmarker} that do telephone {vocalsound} speech get anything like point four percent on their {vocalsound} digits . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure they get {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , for one thing people do phone up who don't have uh uh Middle America accents and it 's a we we it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's US .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: it has {disfmarker} has many people {vocalsound} {vocalsound} who sound in many different ways . So . Um . I mean . OK . That was that topic . What else we got ?\nPhD E: Um .\nProfessor A: Did we end up giving up on {disfmarker} on , any Eurospeech submissions ,\nPhD E: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: or {disfmarker} ? I know Thilo and Dan Ellis are {disfmarker} are submitting something , but uh .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I guess e the only thing with these {disfmarker} the Meeting Recorder and , well , {disfmarker} So , I think , yeah {disfmarker} I think we basically gave up .\nProfessor A: Um . {vocalsound} Now , actually for the {disfmarker} for the Aur - uh\nPhD E: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: we do have stuff for Aurora , right ? Because {disfmarker} because we have ano an extra month or something .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . So . Yeah , for sure we will do something for the special session .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Well , that 's fine . So th so {disfmarker} so we have a couple {disfmarker} a couple little things on Meeting Recorder\nPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: and we have {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We don't {disfmarker} we don't have to flood it with papers . We 're not trying to prove anything to anybody . so . That 's fine . Um . Anything else ?\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . Well . So . Perhaps the point is that we 've been working on {vocalsound} is , yeah , we have put the um the good VAD in the system and {vocalsound} it really makes a huge difference . Um . So , yeah . I think , yeah , this is perhaps one of the reason why our system was not {disfmarker} {vocalsound} not the best , because with the new VAD , it 's very {disfmarker} the results are similar to the France Telecom results and perhaps even better sometimes .\nProfessor A: Hmm .\nGrad B: Huh .\n",
      "PhD E: Um . So there is this point . Uh . The problem is that it 's very big and {vocalsound} {vocalsound} we still have to think how to {disfmarker} where to put it and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um ,\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: because it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} well , this VAD uh either some delay and we {disfmarker} if we put it on the server side , it doesn't work , because on the server side features you already have LDA applied {vocalsound} from the f from the terminal side and {vocalsound} so you accumulate the delay so the VAD should be before the LDA which means perhaps on the terminal side and then smaller {vocalsound} and\nProfessor A: So wha where did this good VAD come from ?\n",
      "PhD E: So . It 's um from OGI . So it 's the network trained {disfmarker} it 's the network with the huge amounts on hidden {disfmarker} of hidden units , and um nine input frames compared to the VAD that was in the proposal which has a very small amount of hidden units and fewer inputs .\nProfessor A: This is the one they had originally ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Oh . Yeah , but they had to {pause} get rid of it because of the space , didn't they ?\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . So . Yeah . But the abso assumption is that we will be able to make a VAD that 's small and that works fine . And . So we can {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Well . So that 's a problem . Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah but {disfmarker} nnn .\n",
      "Professor A: But the other thing is uh to use a different VAD entirely . I mean , uh i if {disfmarker} if there 's a {vocalsound} if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know what the thinking was amongst the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} the ETSI folk but um if everybody agreed sure let 's use this VAD and take that out of there {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . They just want , apparently {disfmarker} they don't want to fix the VAD because they think there is some interaction between feature extraction and {disfmarker} and VAD or frame dropping But they still {vocalsound} want to {disfmarker} just to give some um {vocalsound} requirement for this VAD because it 's {disfmarker} it will not be part of {disfmarker} they don't want it to be part of the standard .\nProfessor A: OK .\n",
      "PhD E: So . So it must be at least uh somewhat fixed but not completely . So there just will be some requirements that are still not {disfmarker} uh not yet uh ready I think .\nProfessor A: Determined . I see . But I was thinking that {disfmarker} that uh {vocalsound} s \" Sure , there may be some interaction ,\nPhD E: Nnn .\nProfessor A: but I don't think we need to be stuck on using our or OGI 's {pause} VAD . We could use somebody else 's if it 's smaller or {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: You know , as long as it did the job .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So that 's good .\nPhD E: Uh . So there is this thing . There is um {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh I designed a new {disfmarker} a new filter because when I designed other filters with shorter delay from the LDA filters , {vocalsound} there was one filter with fif sixty millisecond delay and the other with ten milliseconds\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "PhD E: and {vocalsound} uh Hynek suggested that both could have sixty - five sixty - s I think it 's sixty - five .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . Both should have sixty - five because {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: You didn't gain anything , right ?\nPhD E: Yeah . And . So I did that and uh it 's running . So , {vocalsound} let 's see what will happen . Uh but the filter is of course closer to the reference filter .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Mmm . Um . Yeah . I think {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: So that means logically , in principle , it should be better . So probably it 'll be worse .\nPhD E: Yeah\nProfessor A: Or in the basic perverse nature uh of reality . Yeah . OK .\nPhD E: Yeah . Sure .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: OK .\nPhD E: Yeah , and then we 've started to work with this of um voiced - unvoiced stuff .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: And next week I think we will {vocalsound} perhaps try to have um a new system with uh uh MSG stream also see what {disfmarker} what happens . So , something that 's similar to the proposal too , but with MSG stream .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nProfessor A: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: No , I w {vocalsound} I begin to play {vocalsound} with Matlab and to found some parameter robust for voiced - unvoiced decision . But only to play . And we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} we found that maybe w is a classical parameter , the {vocalsound} sq the variance {vocalsound} between the um FFT of the signal and the small spectrum of time {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} after the um mel filter bank .\nProfessor A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD D: And , well , is more or less robust . Is good for clean speech . Is quite good {vocalsound} for noisy speech .\nProfessor A: Huh ? Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: but um we must to have bigger statistic with TIMIT ,\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: and is not ready yet to use on ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD D: well , I don't know .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . So , basically we wa want to look at something like the ex the ex excitation signal and {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: which are the variance of it and {disfmarker}\nPhD D: I have here . I have here for one signal , for one frame .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Uh - huh .\nPhD D: The {disfmarker} the mix of the two , noise and unnoise , and the signal is this . Clean , and this noise .\nProfessor A: Uh .\nPhD D: These are the two {disfmarker} the mixed , the big signal is for clean .\n",
      "Professor A: Well , I 'm s uh {disfmarker} There 's {disfmarker} None of these axes are labeled , so I don't know what this {disfmarker} What 's this axis ?\nPhD D: Uh this is uh {disfmarker} this axis is {vocalsound} nnn , \" frame \" .\nProfessor A: Frame .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: And what 's th what this ?\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , this is uh energy , log - energy of the spectrum . Of the this is the variance , the difference {nonvocalsound} between the spectrum of the signal and FFT of each frame of the signal and this mouth spectrum of time after the f may fit for the two ,\nProfessor A: For this one . For the noi\nPhD D: this big , to here , they are to signal . This is for clean and this is for noise .\nProfessor A: Oh . There 's two things on the same graph .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . I don't know . I {disfmarker} I think that I have d another graph , but I 'm not sure .\nProfessor A: So w which is clean and which is noise ?\nPhD E: Yeah . I think the lower one is noise .\nPhD D: The lower is noise and the height is clean .\nProfessor A: OK . So it 's harder to distinguish\nPhD D: It 's height .\nProfessor A: but it {disfmarker} but it g\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: with noise of course but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Oh . I must to have .\nProfessor A: Uh .\nPhD D: Pity , but I don't have two different\nProfessor A: And presumably when there 's a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker}\nPhD E: So this should the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the t voiced portions .\nProfessor A: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: Yeah , it is the height is voiced portion .\nPhD E: The p the peaks should be voiced portion .\nPhD D: And this is the noise portion .\nProfessor A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD D: And this is more or less like this . But I meant to have see @ @ two {disfmarker} two the picture .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: This is , for example , for one frame .\nProfessor A: Yeah\nPhD D: the {disfmarker} the spectrum of the signal . And this is the small version of the spectrum after ML mel filter bank .\nProfessor A: Yeah . And this is the difference ?\n",
      "PhD D: And this is I don't know . This is not the different . This is trying to obtain {vocalsound} with LPC model the spectrum but using Matlab without going factor and s\nProfessor A: No pre - emphasis ? Yeah .\nPhD D: Not pre - emphasis . Nothing .\nProfessor A: Yeah so it 's {disfmarker} doesn't do too well there .\n",
      "PhD D: And the {disfmarker} I think that this is good . This is quite similar . this is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} this is another frame . ho how I obtained the {vocalsound} envelope , {nonvocalsound} this envelope , with the mel filter bank .\n",
      "Professor A: Right . So now I wonder {disfmarker} I mean , do you want to {disfmarker} I know you want to get at something orthogonal from what you get with the smooth spectrum Um . But if you were to really try and get a voiced - unvoiced , do you {disfmarker} do you want to totally ignore that ? I mean , do you {disfmarker} do you {disfmarker} I mean , clearly a {disfmarker} a very big {disfmarker} very big cues {vocalsound} for voiced - unvoiced come from uh spectral slope and so on , right ?\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Um .\nPhD E: Yeah . Well , this would be {disfmarker} this would be perhaps an additional parameter ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: simply isn't {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: I see .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah because when did noise clear {nonvocalsound} in these section is clear\nPhD E: Uh .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: if s @ @ {nonvocalsound} val value is indicative that is a voice frame and it 's low values\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . Yeah . Well , you probably want {disfmarker} I mean , {vocalsound} certainly if {vocalsound} you want to do good voiced - unvoiced detection , you need a few features . Each {disfmarker} each feature is {vocalsound} by itself not enough . But , you know , people look at {disfmarker} at slope and {vocalsound} uh first auto - correlation coefficient , divided by power .\nPhD E: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Or {disfmarker} or uh um there 's uh {disfmarker} I guess we prob probably don't have enough computation to do a simple pitch detector or something ? I mean with a pitch detector you could have a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} have a {disfmarker} an estimate of {disfmarker} of what the {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mmm .\nProfessor A: Uh . Or maybe you could you just do it going through the P FFT 's figuring out some um probable {vocalsound} um harmonic structure . Right . And {disfmarker} and uh .\n",
      "PhD E: Mmm .\nPhD D: you have read up and {disfmarker} you have a paper , {vocalsound} the paper that you s give me yesterday . they say that yesterday {vocalsound} they are some {nonvocalsound} problem\nPhD E: Oh , yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah , but it 's not {disfmarker} it 's , yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's another problem .\nPhD D: and the {disfmarker} Is another problem .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah Um . Yeah , there is th this fact actually . If you look at this um spectrum ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: What 's this again ? Is it {vocalsound} the mel - filters ?\nPhD D: Yeah like this . Of kind like this .\nPhD E: Yeah . OK . So the envelope here is the output of the mel - filters\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: and what we clearly see is that in some cases , and it clearly appears here , and the {disfmarker} the harmonics are resolved by the f Well , there are still appear after mel - filtering ,\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: and it happens {vocalsound} for high pitched voice because the width of the lower frequency mel - filters {vocalsound} is sometimes even smaller than the pitch .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: It 's around one hundred , one hundred and fifty hertz {vocalsound} Nnn .\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "PhD E: And so what happens is that this uh , add additional variability to this envelope and {vocalsound} {vocalsound} um\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: so we were thinking to modify the mel - spectrum to have something that {disfmarker} that 's smoother on low frequencies .\nProfessor A: That 's as {disfmarker} as a separate thing .\nPhD E: i\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . This is a separate thing .\nProfessor A: Separate thing ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: And .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . Maybe so . Um . Yeah . So , what {disfmarker} Yeah . What I was talking about was just , starting with the FFT you could {disfmarker} you could uh do a very rough thing to estimate {disfmarker} estimate uh pitch .\nPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: And uh uh , given {disfmarker} you know , given that , uh {vocalsound} you could uh uh come up with some kind of estimate of how much of the low frequency energy was {disfmarker} was explained by {disfmarker} {vocalsound} by uh uh those harmonics .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Uh . It 's uh a variant on what you 're s what you 're doing . The {disfmarker} I mean , the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} the mel does give a smooth thing . But as you say it 's not that smooth here . And {disfmarker} and so if you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you just you know subtracted off uh your guess of the harmonics then something like this would end up with {vocalsound} quite a bit lower energy in the first fifteen hundred hertz or so and {disfmarker} and our first kilohertz , even .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: And um {vocalsound} if was uh noisy , the proportion that it would go down would be if it was {disfmarker} if it was unvoiced or something .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So you oughta be able to {vocalsound} pick out voiced segments . At least it should be another {disfmarker} another cue . So . {vocalsound} Anyway .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: OK ? That 's what 's going on . Uh . What 's up with you ?\n",
      "Grad B: Um {vocalsound} our t I went to {vocalsound} talk with uh Mike Jordan this {disfmarker} this week\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: um {nonvocalsound} and uh {vocalsound} shared with him the ideas about um {vocalsound} extending the Larry Saul work and um I asked him some questions about factorial H M so like later down the line when {vocalsound} we 've come up with these {disfmarker} these feature detectors , how do we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} how do we uh {vocalsound} you know , uh model the time series that {disfmarker} that happens um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} and {vocalsound} and we talked a little bit about {vocalsound} factorial H M Ms and how {vocalsound} um when you 're doing inference {disfmarker} or w when you 're doing recognition , there 's like simple Viterbi stuff that you can do for {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for these H M and {vocalsound} the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the great advantages that um a lot of times the factorial H M Ms don't {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} don't over - alert the problem there they have a limited number of parameters and they focus directly on {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on uh the sub - problems at hand so {vocalsound} you can imagine {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} five or so parallel {vocalsound} um features um transitioning independently and then {vocalsound} at the end you {disfmarker} you uh couple these factorial H M Ms with uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with uh undirected links um based on {disfmarker} {vocalsound} based on some more data .\n",
      "Professor A: Hmm .\nGrad B: So he {disfmarker} he seemed {disfmarker} he seemed like really interested in {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in um {disfmarker} in this and said {disfmarker} said this is {disfmarker} this is something very do - able and can learn a lot and um yeah , I 've just been {vocalsound} continue reading um about certain things .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: um thinking of maybe using um {vocalsound} um m modulation spectrum stuff to {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} as features um also in the {disfmarker} in the sub - bands\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: because {vocalsound} it seems like {vocalsound} the modulation um spectrum tells you a lot about the intelligibility of {disfmarker} of certain um words and stuff So , um . Yeah . Just that 's about it .\nProfessor A: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . And um so I 've been looking at Avendano 's work and um uh I 'll try to write up in my next stat status report a nice description of {vocalsound} what he 's doing , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's an approach to deal with {vocalsound} reverberation or that {disfmarker} the aspect of his work that I 'm interested in the idea is that um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} normally an analysis frames are um {vocalsound} too short to encompass reverberation effects um in full . You miss most of the reverberation tail in a ten millisecond window and so {vocalsound} {vocalsound} you {disfmarker} you 'd like it to be that {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} the reverberation responses um simply convolved um in , but it 's not really with these ten millisecond frames cuz you j But if you take , say , a two millisecond {vocalsound} um window {disfmarker} I 'm sorry a two second window then in a room like this , most of the reverberation response {vocalsound} is included in the window and the {disfmarker} then it um {vocalsound} then things are l more linear . It is {disfmarker} it is more like the reverberation response is simply c convolved and um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and you can use channel normalization techniques {vocalsound} like uh in his thesis he 's assuming that the reverberation response is fixed . He just does um {vocalsound} mean subtraction , which is like removing the DC component of the modulation spectrum and {vocalsound} that 's supposed to d um deal {disfmarker} uh deal pretty well with the um reverberation and um {vocalsound} the neat thing is you can't take these two second frames and feed them to a speech recognizer um {vocalsound} so he does this {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} method training trading the um {vocalsound} the spectral resolution for time resolution {vocalsound} and um {vocalsound} come ca uh synthesizes a new representation which is with say ten second frames but a lower s um {vocalsound} frequency resolution . So I don't really know the theory . I guess it 's {disfmarker} these are called \" time frequency representations \" and h he 's making the {disfmarker} the time sh um finer grained and the frequency resolution um less fine grained .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: s so I 'm {disfmarker} I guess my first stab actually in continuing {vocalsound} his work is to um {vocalsound} re - implement this {disfmarker} this thing which um {vocalsound} changes the time and frequency resolutions cuz he doesn't have code for me . So that that 'll take some reading about the theory . I don't really know the theory .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Oh , and um , {vocalsound} another f first step is um , so the {disfmarker} the way I want to extend his work is make it able to deal with a time varying reverberation response um {vocalsound} and um we don't really know {vocalsound} how fast the um {disfmarker} the reverberation response is varying the Meeting Recorder data um so um {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} we have this um block least squares um imp echo canceller implementation and um {vocalsound} I want to try {vocalsound} finding {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the response , say , between a near mike and the table mike for someone using the echo canceller and looking at the echo canceller taps and then {vocalsound} see how fast that varies {vocalsound} from block to block .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: That should give an idea of how fast the reverberation response is changing .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: OK . Um . I think we 're {vocalsound} sort of done .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: So let 's read our digits and go home .\nGrad C: Um . S so um y you do {disfmarker} I think you read some of the {disfmarker} the zeros as O 's and some as zeros .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Is there a particular way we 're supposed to read them ?\n",
      "PhD E: There are only zeros here . Well .\nProfessor A: No . \" O \" {disfmarker} \" O \" {disfmarker} \" O \" \" O \" {disfmarker} \" O \" {disfmarker} \" O \" and \" zero \" are two ways that we say that digit .\nPhD E: Eee . Yeah .\nProfessor A: So it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Ha !\nPhD E: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: so it 's {disfmarker} i\n",
      "PhD E: Perhaps in the sheets there should be another sign for the {disfmarker} if we want to {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the guy to say \" O \" or\nProfessor A: No . I mean . I think people will do what they say .\nPhD E: It 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: It 's OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: I mean in digit recognition we 've done before , you have {disfmarker} you have two pronunciations for that value , \" O \" and \" zero \" .\nGrad C: Alright .\nPhD E: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: OK .\nPhD E: But it 's perhaps more difficult for the people to prepare the database then , if {disfmarker} because here you only have zeros\nProfessor A: No , they just write {disfmarker}\nPhD E: and {disfmarker} and people pronounce \" O \" or zero {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: they {disfmarker} they write down OH . or they write down ZERO a and they {disfmarker} and they each have their own pronunciation .\nPhD E: Yeah but if the sh the sheet was prepared with a different sign for the \" O \" .\n",
      "Professor A: But people wouldn't know what that wa I mean {vocalsound} there is no convention for it .\nPhD E: OK . Yeah .\nProfessor A: See . I mean , you 'd have to tell them {vocalsound} \" OK when we write this , say it tha \" ,\nPhD E: OK .\nProfessor A: you know , and you just {disfmarker} They just want people to read the digits as you ordinarily would\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor A: and {disfmarker} and people say it different ways .\nPhD E: Yep .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . Is this a change from the last batch of {disfmarker} of um forms ? Because in the last batch it was spelled out which one you should read .\nPhD E: Yeah , it was orthographic , so .\nProfessor A: Yes . That 's right . It was {disfmarker} it was spelled out , and they decided they wanted to get at more the way people would really say things .\nGrad C: Oh . OK .\nProfessor A: That 's also why they 're {disfmarker} they 're bunched together in these different groups . So {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: OK .\nProfessor A: Yeah . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} Everything 's fine .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor A: OK . Actually , let me just s since {disfmarker} since you brought it up , I was just {disfmarker} it was hard not to be self - conscious about that when it {vocalsound} after we {disfmarker} since we just discussed it . But I realized that {disfmarker} that um {vocalsound} when I 'm talking on the phone , certainly , and {disfmarker} and saying these numbers , {vocalsound} I almost always say zero . And uh {disfmarker} cuz {disfmarker} because uh i it 's two syllables . It 's {disfmarker} it 's more likely they 'll understand what I said . So that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's the habit I 'm in , but some people say \" O \" and {disfmarker}\n"
    ],
    "length": 10938,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 31,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting took place close to the finalization of the model, so participants were focused on further experimentation they could conduct. It began with a discussion about how the backend system could be further improved. The team thought that perhaps they could tweak language scaling and insertion penalties to see how the model changed its performance. Then, the team moved into discussing methods for detecting voice segments in their results. Finally, the team spent some time exploring normalization techniques and acoustic events, both of which could potentially improve model performance.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor E: Let 's see . Test ? Test ? Yeah . OK .\nGrad A: Hello ?\nPhD B: Channel one .\nGrad A: Hello ?\nPhD C: Test .\n",
      "Professor E: I was saying Hynek 'll be here next week , uh , Wednesday through Friday {disfmarker} uh , through Saturday , and , um , I won't be here Thursday and Friday . But my suggestion is that , uh , at least for this meeting , people should go ahead , uh , cuz Hynek will be here , and , you know , we don't have any Czech accent yet , uh , {vocalsound} as far as I know , so {disfmarker} There we go .\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor E: Um . So other than reading digits , what 's our agenda ?\n",
      "PhD F: I don't really have , uh , anything new . Been working on {pause} Meeting Recorder stuff . So .\nProfessor E: OK . Um . Do you think that would be the case for next week also ? Or is {disfmarker} is , uh {disfmarker} ? What 's your projection on {disfmarker} ?\nPhD F: Um .\n",
      "Professor E: Cuz the one thing {disfmarker} the one thing that seems to me we really should try , if you hadn't tried it before , because it hadn't occurred to me {disfmarker} it was sort of an obvious thing {disfmarker} is , um , adjusting the , uh , sca the scaling and , uh , insertion penalty sorta stuff .\nPhD F: I did play with that , actually , a little bit . Um . What happens is , uh , {vocalsound} when you get to the noisy stuff , you start getting lots of insertions .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: And , um , so I 've tried playing around a little bit with , um , the insertion penalties and things like that .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Um . I mean , it {disfmarker} it didn't make a whole lot of difference . Like for the well - matched case , it seemed like it was pretty good . Um . {vocalsound} I could do more playing with that , though . And , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: But you were looking at mel cepstrum .\nPhD F: and see . Yes .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: Oh , you 're talking about for th {vocalsound} for our features .\nProfessor E: Right . So , I mean , i it it 's not the direction that you were working with that we were saying what 's the {disfmarker} uh , what 's the best you can do with {disfmarker} with mel cepstrum . But , they raised a very valid point ,\nPhD F: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor E: which , I guess {disfmarker} So , to first order {disfmarker} I mean , you have other things you were gonna do , but to first order , I would say that the conclusion is that if you , um , do , uh , some monkeying around with , uh , the exact HTK training and @ @ {comment} with , uh , you know , how many states and so forth , that it {disfmarker} it doesn't particularly improve the performance . In other words , that even though it sounds pretty dumb , just applying the same number of states to everything , more or less , no matter what language , isn't so bad . Right ? And I guess you hadn't gotten to all the experiments you wanted to do with number of Gaussians ,\n",
      "PhD F: Right .\nProfessor E: but , um , let 's just {disfmarker} If we had to {disfmarker} if we had to draw a conclusion on the information we have so far , we 'd say something like that . Right ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Uh , so the next question to ask , which is I think the one that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Andreas was dre addressing himself to in the lunch meeting , is , um , we 're not supposed to adjust the back - end , but anybody using the system would .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: So , if you were just adjusting the back - end , how much better would you do , uh , in noise ? Uh , because the language scaling and insertion penalties and so forth are probably set to be about right for mel cepstrum .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: But , um , they 're probably not at all set right for these things , particularly these things that look over , uh , larger time windows , in one way or another with {disfmarker} with LDA and KLT and neural nets and {vocalsound} all these things . In the fa past we 've always found that we had to increase the insertion penalty to {disfmarker} to correspond to such things . So , I think that 's , uh , @ @ {comment} that 's kind of a first - order thing that {disfmarker} that we should try .\n",
      "PhD F: So for th so the experiment is to , um , run our front - end like normal , with the default , uh , insertion penalties and so forth , and then tweak that a little bit and see how much of a difference it makes\nProfessor E: So by \" our front - end \" I mean take , you know , the Aurora - two s take some version that Stephane has that is , you know , our current best version of something .\nPhD F: if we were {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Um . I mean , y don't wanna do this over a hundred different things that they 've tried but , you know , for some version that you say is a good one . You know ? Um . How {disfmarker} how much , uh , does it improve if you actually adjust that ?\nPhD F: OK .\n",
      "Professor E: But it is interesting . You say you {disfmarker} you have for the noisy {disfmarker} How about for the {disfmarker} for the mismatched or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or the {disfmarker} or the medium mismatched conditions ? Have you {disfmarker} ? When you adjusted those numbers for mel cepstrum , did it {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD F: Uh , I {disfmarker} I don't remember off the top of my head . Um . Yeah . I didn't even write them down . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't remember . I would need to {disfmarker} Well , I did write down , um {disfmarker} So , when I was doing {disfmarker} I just wrote down some numbers for the well - matched case .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Um . Looking at the {disfmarker} I wrote down what the deletions , substitutions , and insertions were , uh , for different numbers of states per phone .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Um , but , uh , that {disfmarker} that 's all I wrote down .\nProfessor E: OK .\nPhD F: So . I {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} Yeah . I would need to do that .\nProfessor E: OK . So {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I can do that for next week .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . And , um {disfmarker} Yeah . Also , eh , eh , sometimes if you run behind on some of these things , maybe we can get someone else to do it and you can supervise or something . But {disfmarker} but I think it would be {disfmarker} it 'd be good to know that .\nPhD F: OK . I just need to get , um , {vocalsound} front - end , uh , stuff from you\nPhD B: Hmm .\nPhD F: or you point me to some files {pause} that you 've already calculated .\nPhD B: Yeah . Alright .\n",
      "Professor E: OK . Uh .\nPhD F: I probably will have time to do that and time to play a little bit with the silence model .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: So maybe I can have that for next week when Hynek 's here .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . Cuz , I mean , the {disfmarker} the other {disfmarker} That , in fact , might have been part of what , uh , the difference was {disfmarker} at least part of it that {disfmarker} that we were seeing . Remember we were seeing the SRI system was so much better than the tandem system .\nPhD F: Hmm .\nProfessor E: Part of it might just be that the SRI system , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they always adjust these things to be sort of optimized ,\nPhD F: Is there {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Professor E: and {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I wonder if there 's anything that we could do {vocalsound} to the front - end that would affect the insertion {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yes . I think you can .\nPhD F: What could you do ?\nProfessor E: Well , um {disfmarker} uh , part of what 's going on , um , is the , uh , the range of values . So , if you have something that has a much smaller range or a much larger range , and taking the appropriate root .\nPhD F: Oh . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: You know ? If something is kind of like the equivalent of a bunch of probabilities multiplied together , you can take a root of some sort . If it 's like seven probabilities together , you can take the seventh root of it or something , or if it 's in the log domain , divide it by seven .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: But {disfmarker} but , um , that has a similar effect because it changes the scale of the numbers {disfmarker} of the differences between different candidates from the acoustic model\nPhD F: Oh , right .\nProfessor E: as opposed to what 's coming from the language model .\n",
      "PhD F: So that w Right . So , in effect , that 's changing the value of your insertion penalty .\nProfessor E: Yeah . I mean , it 's more directly like the {disfmarker} the language scaling or the , uh {disfmarker} the model scaling or acoustic scaling ,\nPhD F: That 's interesting .\nProfessor E: but you know that those things have kind of a similar effect to the insertion penalty\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: anyway . They 're a slightly different way of {disfmarker} of handling it .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: So , um {disfmarker}\nPhD F: So if we know what the insertion penalty is , then we can get an idea about what range our number should be in ,\nProfessor E: I think so .\nPhD F: so that they {pause} match with that .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah . So that 's why I think that 's another reason other than curiosity as to why i it would in fact be kinda neat to find out if we 're way off . I mean , the other thing is , are aren't we seeing {disfmarker} ? Y y\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: I 'm sure you 've already looked at this bu in these noisy cases , are {disfmarker} ? We are seeing lots of insertions . Right ? The insertion number is quite high ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor E: I know the VAD takes pre care of part of that ,\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor E: but {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I 've seen that with the mel cepstrum . I don't {disfmarker} I don't know about {pause} the Aurora front - end , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: I think it 's much more balanced with , uh {disfmarker} when the front - end is more robust . Yeah . I could look at it {disfmarker} at this . Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Wha - what 's a typical number ?\nPhD B: I don't {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor E: Do we {disfmarker} ? Oh , you {disfmarker} oh , you don't know .\nPhD B: I don't have this in {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: OK . I 'm sure it 's more balanced ,\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: but it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it wouldn't surprise me if there 's still {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: I mean , in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the old systems we used to do , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} uh , I remember numbers kind of like insertions being half the number of deletions , as being {disfmarker} and both numbers being {disfmarker} tend to be on the small side comparing to {disfmarker} to , uh , substitutions .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: Well , this {disfmarker} the whole problem with insertions was what I think , um , we talked about when the guy from OGI came down {pause} that one time and {disfmarker} and that was when people were saying , well we should have a , uh , uh , voice activity detector {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Right .\nPhD F: that , because all that stuff {comment} that we 're getting thr the silence that 's getting through is causing insertions . So .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: I 'll bet you there 's still a lot {vocalsound} of insertions .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Yeah . And it may be less of a critical thing . I mean , the fact that some get by may be less of a critical thing if you , uh , get things in the right range .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: So , I mean , the insertions is {disfmarker} is a symptom . It 's a symptom that there 's something , uh , wrong with the range .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: But there 's {disfmarker} uh , your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your substitutions tend to go up as well . So , uh , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: uh , the most obvious thing is just the insertions , @ @ . But {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} um . If you 're operating in the wrong range {disfmarker} I mean , that 's why just in general , if you {vocalsound} change what these {disfmarker} these penalties and scaling factors are , you reach some point that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a minimum . So . Um . Um . We do have to do well over a range of different conditions , some of which are noisier than others . Um . But , um , I think we may get a better handle on that if we {disfmarker} if we see {disfmarker} Um , I mean we ca it 's if we actually could pick a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a more stable value for the range of these features , it , um , uh , could {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Even though it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's true that in a real situation you can in fact adjust the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these scaling factors in the back - end , and it 's ar artificial here that we 're not adjusting those , you certainly don't wanna be adjusting those all the time . And if you have a nice front - end that 's in roughly the right range {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Hmm .\nProfessor E: I remember after we got our stuff more or less together in the previous systems we built , that we tended to set those scaling factors at kind of a standard level , and we would rarely adjust them again , even though you could get a {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: for an evaluation you can get an extra point or something if you tweaked it a little bit . But , once we knew what rou roughly the right operating range was , it was pretty stable , and {disfmarker} Uh , we might just not even be in the right operating range .\n",
      "PhD F: So , would the {disfmarker} ? Uh , would a good idea be to try to map it into the same range that you get in the well - matched case ? So , if we computed what the range was in well - matched , and then when we get our noisy conditions out we try to make it have the same range as {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor E: No . You don't wanna change it for different conditions . No . No . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} what I 'm saying {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Oh , I wasn't suggesting change it for different conditions . I was just saying that when we pick a range , we {disfmarker} we wanna pick a range that we map our numbers into {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD F: we should probably pick it based on the range that we get in the well - matched case . Otherwise , I mean , what range are we gonna choose to {disfmarker} to map everything into ?\n",
      "Professor E: Well . It depends how much we wanna do gamesmanship and how much we wanna do {disfmarker} I mean , i if he it {disfmarker} to me , actually , even if you wanna be {disfmarker} play on the gamesmanship side , it can be kinda tricky . So , I mean , what you would do is set the {disfmarker} set the scaling factors , uh , so that you got the best number for this point four five times the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you know , and so on .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: But they might change that {disfmarker} those weightings .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Um . So {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} I just sorta think we need to explore the space . Just take a look at it a little bit .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: And we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we may just find that {disfmarker} that we 're way off .\nPhD F: OK . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Maybe we 're not . You know ? As for these other things , it may turn out that , uh , {vocalsound} it 's kind of reasonable . But then {disfmarker} I mean , Andreas gave a very reasonable response , and he 's probably not gonna be the only one who 's gonna say this in the future {disfmarker} of , you know , people {disfmarker} people within this tight - knit community who are doing this evaluation {vocalsound} are accepting , uh , more or less , that these are the rules . But , people outside of it who look in at the broader picture are certainly gonna say \" Well , wait a minute . You 're doing all this standing on your head , uh , on the front - end ,\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: when all you could do is just adjust this in the back - end with one s one knob . \"\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: And so we have to at least , I think , determine that that 's not true , which would be OK , or determine that it is true , in which case we want to adjust that and then continue with {disfmarker} with what we 're doing . And as you say {disfmarker} as you point out {disfmarker} finding ways to then compensate for that in the front - end {vocalsound} also then becomes a priority for this particular test ,\nPhD F: Right .\nProfessor E: and saying you don't have to do that .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So . OK . So , uh {disfmarker} What 's new with you ?\nPhD B: Uh . So there 's nothing {pause} new . Um .\nProfessor E: Uh , what 's old with you that 's developed ?\nPhD B: I 'm sorry ?\nProfessor E: You {disfmarker} OK . What 's old with you that has developed over the last week or two ?\nPhD B: Mmm . Well , so we 've been mainly working on the report and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD F: Mainly working on what ?\n",
      "PhD B: On the report {pause} of the work that was already done .\nPhD F: Oh .\nPhD B: Um . Mm - hmm . That 's all .\nPhD F: How about that {disfmarker} ? Any - anything new on the thing that , uh , you were working on with the , uh {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: I don't have results yet .\nPhD F: No results ? Yeah .\nProfessor E: What was that ?\nPhD F: The {disfmarker} the , uh ,\nGrad A: Voicing thing .\nPhD F: voicing detector .\n",
      "Professor E: I mean , what what 's {disfmarker} what 's going on now ? What are you {pause} doing ?\nPhD C: Uh , to try to found , nnn , robust feature for detect between voice and unvoice . And we {disfmarker} w we try to use {vocalsound} the variance {vocalsound} of the es difference between the FFT spectrum and mel filter bank spectrum .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD C: Uh , also the {disfmarker} another parameter is {disfmarker} relates with the auto - correlation function .\nProfessor E: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD C: R - ze energy and the variance a also of the auto - correlation function .\nProfessor E: Uh - huh . So , that 's {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's what you were describing , I guess , a week or two ago .\nPhD C: Yeah . But we don't have res we don't have result of the AURO for Aurora yet .\nProfessor E: So .\nPhD C: We need to train the neural network\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: So you 're training neural networks now ?\nPhD C: No , not yet .\n",
      "Professor E: So , what {disfmarker} wha {vocalsound} wh wha what what 's going on ?\nPhD C: Well , we work in the report , too , because we have a lot of result ,\nProfessor E: Uh - huh .\nPhD C: they are very dispersed , and was necessary to {disfmarker} to look in all the directory to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to give some more structure .\nPhD B: Yea\n",
      "Professor E: So . B So {disfmarker} Yeah . I if I can summarize , basically what 's going on is that you 're going over a lot of material that you have generated in furious fashion , f generating many results and doing many experiments and trying to pull it together into some coherent form to be able to see wha see what happens .\nPhD C: Hm - hmm .\nPhD B: Uh , y yeah . Basically we we 've stopped , uh , experimenting ,\nProfessor E: Yes ?\nPhD B: I mean . We 're just writing some kind of technical report . And {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Is this a report that 's for Aurora ? Or is it just like a tech report for ICSI ,\nPhD C: No .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD C: For ICSI .\nPhD F: or {disfmarker} ? Ah . I see .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Just summary of the experiment and the conclusion and something like that .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: OK . So , my suggestion , though , is that you {disfmarker} you not necessarily finish that . But that you put it all together so that it 's {disfmarker} you 've got {disfmarker} you 've got a clearer structure to it . You know what things are , you have things documented , you 've looked things up that you needed to look up .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So that , you know {disfmarker} so that such a thing can be written . And , um {disfmarker} When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you leave again ?\nPhD C: Uh , in July . First of July .\nProfessor E: First of July ? OK . And that you figure on actually finishing it in {disfmarker} in June . Because , you know , you 're gonna have another bunch of results to fit in there anyway .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: And right now it 's kind of important that we actually go forward with experiments .\nPhD C: It 's not .\n",
      "Professor E: So {disfmarker} so , I {disfmarker} I think it 's good to pause , and to gather everything together and make sure it 's in good shape , so that other people can get access to it and so that it can go into a report in June . But I think {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to really work on {disfmarker} on fine - tuning the report n at this point is {disfmarker} is probably bad timing , I {disfmarker} I {pause} think .\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Well , we didn't {disfmarker} we just planned to work on it one week on this report , not {disfmarker} no more , anyway . Um .\nProfessor E: But you ma you may really wanna add other things later anyway\nPhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: because you {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Mmm .\nProfessor E: There 's more to go ?\nPhD B: Yeah . Well , so I don't know . There are small things that we started to {disfmarker} to do . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Are you discovering anything , uh , that makes you scratch your head as you write this report , like why did we do that , or why didn't we do this ,\nPhD B: Uh .\nPhD F: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah . And {disfmarker} Actually , there were some tables that were also with partial results . We just noticed that , wh while gathering the result that for some conditions we didn't have everything .\nPhD F: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD B: But anyway . Um . Yeah , yeah . We have , yeah , extracted actually the noises from {pause} the SpeechDat - Car . And so , we can train neural network with speech and these noises . Um . It 's difficult to say what it will give , because when we look at the Aurora {disfmarker} the TI - digits experiments , um , they have these three conditions that have different noises , and apparently this system perform as well on the seen noises {disfmarker} on the unseen noises and on the seen noises . But , I think this is something we have to try anyway . So {disfmarker} adding the noises from {disfmarker} from the SpeechDat - Car . Um .\n",
      "Professor E: That 's {disfmarker} that 's , uh {disfmarker} that 's permitted ?\nPhD B: Uh . Well , OGI does {disfmarker} did that . Um . At some point they did that for {disfmarker} for the voice activity detector .\nPhD C: Uh , for a v VAD .\nPhD B: Right ? Um .\nPhD F: Could you say it again ? What {disfmarker} what exactly did they do ?\nPhD B: They used some parts of the , um , Italian database to train the voice activity detector , I think . It {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . I guess the thing is {disfmarker} Yeah . I guess that 's a matter of interpretation . The rules as I understand it , is that in principle the Italian and the Spanish and the English {disfmarker} no , Italian and the Finnish and the English ? {disfmarker} were development data\nPhD B: Yeah . And Spanish , yeah .\nProfessor E: on which you could adjust things . And the {disfmarker} and the German and Danish were the evaluation data .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: And then when they finally actually evaluated things they used everything .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . That 's right . Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: So {disfmarker} Uh , and it is true that the performance , uh , on the German was {disfmarker} I mean , even though the improvement wasn't so good , the pre the raw performance was really pretty good .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So {disfmarker} And , uh , it {disfmarker} it doesn't appear that there 's strong evidence that even though things were somewhat tuned on those three or four languages , that {disfmarker} that going to a different language really hurt you . And the noises were not exactly the same . Right ? Because it was taken from a different , uh {disfmarker} I mean they were different drives .\nPhD B: Different cars . Yeah .\nProfessor E: I mean , it was {disfmarker} it was actual different cars and so on .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: So . Um , it 's somewhat tuned . It 's tuned more than , you know , a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: You 'd really like to have something that needed no particular noise at all , maybe just some white noise or something like that a at most .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: But that 's not really what this contest is . So . Um , I guess it 's OK .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: That 's something I 'd like to understand before we actually use something from it ,\nPhD F: I think it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: because it would {disfmarker}\nPhD F: it 's probably something that , mmm , the {disfmarker} you know , the , uh , experiment designers didn't really think about , because I think most people aren't doing trained systems , or , you know , uh , systems that are like ours , where you actually use the data to build models . I mean , they just {pause} doing signal - processing .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: Well , it 's true ,\nPhD F: So .\nProfessor E: except that , uh , that 's what we used in Aurora one , and then they designed the things for Aurora - two knowing that we were doing that .\nPhD F: Yeah . That 's true .\nProfessor E: Um .\nPhD F: And they didn't forbid us {disfmarker} right ? {disfmarker} to build models on the data ?\n",
      "Professor E: No . But , I think {disfmarker} I think that it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it probably would be the case that if , say , we trained on Italian , uh , data and then , uh , we tested on Danish data and it did terribly , uh , that {disfmarker} that it would look bad . And I think someone would notice and would say \" Well , look . This is not generalizing . \" I would hope tha I would hope they would .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Um . But , uh , it 's true . You know , maybe there 's parameters that other people have used {disfmarker} you know , th that they have tuned in some way for other things . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh {disfmarker} We should {disfmarker} we should {disfmarker} Maybe {disfmarker} that 's maybe a topic {disfmarker} Especially if you talk with him when I 'm not here , that 's a topic you should discuss with Hynek\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: to , you know , double check it 's OK .\nPhD F: Do we know anything about {pause} the speakers for each of the , uh , training utterances ?\nPhD B: What do you mean ? We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Do you have speaker information ?\nProfessor E: Social security number\nPhD F: That would be good .\nPhD B: Like , we have {pause} male , female ,\nPhD C: Hmm .\nPhD F: Bank PIN .\nPhD B: at least .\nPhD F: Just male f female ?\nPhD B: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor E: What kind of information do you mean ?\nPhD F: Well , I was thinking about things like , you know , gender , uh {disfmarker} you know , gender - specific nets and , uh , vocal tract length normalization .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Things like that . I d I don't {disfmarker} I didn't know what information we have about the speakers that we could try to take advantage of .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Hmm . Uh . Right . I mean , again , i if you had the whole system you were optimizing , that would be easy to see . But if you 're {vocalsound} supposedly just using a fixed back - end and you 're just coming up with a feature vector , w w I 'm not sure {disfmarker} I mean , having the two nets {disfmarker} Suppose you detected that it was male , it was female {disfmarker} you come up with different {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Well , you could put them both in as separate streams or something . Uh .\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Maybe .\nPhD F: I don't know . I was just wondering if there was other information we could exploit .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Hmm . Yeah , it 's an interesting thought . Maybe having something along the {disfmarker} I mean , you can't really do vocal tract normalization . But something that had some of that effect\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: being applied to the data in some way .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Um .\n",
      "PhD B: Do you have something simple in mind for {disfmarker} I mean , vocal tract length normalization ?\n",
      "PhD F: Uh no . I hadn't {disfmarker} I hadn't thought {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} thought too much about it , really . It just {disfmarker} something that popped into my head just now . And so I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , you could maybe use the ideas {disfmarker} a similar {pause} idea to what they do in vocal tract length normalization . You know , you have some sort of a , uh , general speech model , you know , maybe just a mixture of Gaussians that you evaluate every utterance against , and then you see where each , you know , utterance {disfmarker} like , the likelihood of each utterance . You divide the {disfmarker} the range of the likelihoods up into discrete bins and then each bin 's got some knob {disfmarker} uh , setting .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . But just listen to yourself . I mean , that uh really doesn't sound like a real - time thing with less than two hundred milliseconds , uh , latency that {disfmarker} and where you 're not adjusting the statistical engine at all .\nPhD F: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Yeah . That 's true .\nProfessor E: You know , that just {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right .\nPhD B: Hmm .\nProfessor E: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD F: Could be expensive .\n",
      "Professor E: No . Well not just expensive . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't see how you could possibly do it . You can't look at the whole utterance and do anything . You know , you can only {disfmarker} Right ?\nPhD F: Oh ,\nProfessor E: Each frame comes in and it 's gotta go out the other end .\nPhD F: right .\nProfessor E: So , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right . So whatever it was , it would have to be uh sort of on a per frame basis .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . I mean , you can do , um {disfmarker} Fairly quickly you can do male female {disfmarker} f male female stuff .\nPhD F: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor E: But as far as , I mean {disfmarker} Like I thought BBN did a thing with , uh , uh , vocal tract normalization a ways back . Maybe other people did too . With {disfmarker} with , uh , uh , l trying to identify third formant {disfmarker} average third formant {disfmarker} {vocalsound} using that as an indicator of {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: I don't know .\nProfessor E: So . You know , third formant {disfmarker} I if you imagine that to first order what happens with , uh , changing vocal tract is that , uh , the formants get moved out by some proportion {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So , if you had a first formant that was one hundred hertz before , if the fifty {disfmarker} if the vocal tract is fifty percent shorter , then it would be out at seven fifty hertz , and so on . So , that 's a move of two hundred fifty hertz . Whereas the third formant which might have started off at twenty - five hundred hertz , you know , might be out to thirty - seven fifty , you know so it 's at {disfmarker} So , although , you frequently get less distinct higher formants , it 's still {disfmarker} third formant 's kind of a reasonable compromise , and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: So , I think , eh , if I recall correctly , they did something like that . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Hmm .\nProfessor E: But {disfmarker} Um , that doesn't work for just having one frame or something .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: You know ? That 's more like looking at third formant over {disfmarker} over a turn or something like that ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: and {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: Um . So . But on the other hand , male female is a {disfmarker} is a {disfmarker} is a much simpler categorization than figuring out a {disfmarker} a factor to , uh , squish or expand the {disfmarker} the spectrum .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: So , um . Y you could imagine that {disfmarker} I mean , just like we 're saying voiced - unvoiced is good to know {disfmarker} uh , male female is good to know also . Um .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: But , you 'd have to figure out a way to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to , uh , incorporate it on the fly . Uh , I mean , I guess , as you say , one thing you could do is simply , uh , have the {disfmarker} the male and female output vectors {disfmarker} you know , tr nets trained only on males and n trained only on females or {disfmarker} or , uh , you know . But {disfmarker} Um . I don't know if that would really help , because you already have males and females and it 's mm - hmm putting into one net . So is it {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD F: Is it balanced , um , in terms of gender {disfmarker} the data ?\nPhD B: Mmm .\nProfessor E: Do you know ?\nPhD B: Almost , yeah .\nPhD F: Hmm .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Hmm . OK . Y you 're {disfmarker} you were saying before {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD B: Uh . Yeah . So , this noise , um {disfmarker} Yeah . The MSG {disfmarker} Um . Mmm . There is something {disfmarker} perhaps , I could spend some days to look at this thing , cuz it seems that when we train networks on {disfmarker} let 's say , on TIMIT with MSG features , they {disfmarker} they look as good as networks trained on PLP . But , um , when they are used on {disfmarker} on the SpeechDat - Car data , it 's not the case {disfmarker} oh , well . The MSG features are much worse , and so maybe they 're , um , less {disfmarker} more sensitive to different recording conditions , or {disfmarker} Shou\n",
      "Professor E: Shouldn't be . They should be less so .\nPhD B: Yeah . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: R right ?\nPhD B: Mmm .\nProfessor E: Wh - ? But let me ask you this . What {disfmarker} what 's the , um {disfmarker} ? Do you kno recall if the insertions were {disfmarker} were higher with MSG ?\nPhD B: I don't know . I cannot tell . But {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the error rate is higher . So , I don\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . But you should always look at insertions , deletions , and substitutions .\nPhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: So {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: so , uh {disfmarker} MSG is very , very dif Eh , PLP is very much like mel cepstrum . MSG is very different from both of them .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So , if it 's very different , then this is the sort of thing {disfmarker} I mean I 'm really glad Andreas brought this point up . I {pause} sort of had forgotten to discuss it . Um . You always have to look at how this {disfmarker} uh , these adjustments , uh , affect things . And even though we 're not allowed to do that , again we maybe could reflect that back to our use of the features .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So if it {disfmarker} if in fact , uh {disfmarker} The problem might be that the range of the MSG features is quite different than the range of the PLP or mel cepstrum .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: And you might wanna change that .\nPhD B: But {disfmarker} Yeah . But , it 's d it 's after {disfmarker} Well , it 's tandem features , so {disfmarker} Mmm .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . We {disfmarker} we have estimation of post posteriors with PLP and with MSG as input ,\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: so I don Well . I don't know .\nProfessor E: That means they 're between zero and one .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: But i it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it doesn't necessarily {disfmarker} You know , they could be , um {disfmarker} Do - doesn't tell you what the variance of the things is .\nPhD B: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Right ? Cuz if you 're taking the log of these things , it could be , uh {disfmarker} Knowing what the sum of the probabilities are , doesn't tell you what the sum of the logs are .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor E: So .\nPhD B: Yeah . So we should look at the likelihood , or {disfmarker} or what ? Or {disfmarker} well , at the log , perhaps , and {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Or what {disfmarker} you know , what you 're uh {disfmarker} the thing you 're actually looking at .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: So your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} the values that are {disfmarker} are actually being fed into HTK .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: What do they look like ?\n",
      "PhD F: No And so th the , uh {disfmarker} for the tandem system , the values that come out of the net don't go through the sigmoid . Right ? They 're sort of the pre - nonlinearity values ?\nPhD B: Yes .\nProfessor E: Right . So they 're {pause} kinda like log probabilities is what I was saying .\nPhD F: And those {disfmarker} OK . And tho that 's what goes {pause} into {pause} HTK ?\nProfessor E: Uh , almost . But then you actually do a KLT on them .\nPhD F: OK .\n",
      "Professor E: Um . They aren't normalized after that , are they ?\nPhD B: Mmm . No , they are not {disfmarker} no .\nProfessor E: No . OK . So , um . Right . So the question is {disfmarker} Yeah . Whatever they are at that point , um , are they something for which taking a square root or cube root or fourth root or something like that is {disfmarker} is gonna be a good or a bad thing ? So .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , and that 's something that nothing {disfmarker} nothing else after that is gonna {disfmarker} Uh , things are gonna scale it {disfmarker} Uh , you know , subtract things from it , scale it from it , but nothing will have that same effect . Um . So . Um . Anyway , eh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah . Cuz if {disfmarker} if the log probs that are coming out of the MSG are really big , the standard {pause} insertion penalty is gonna have very little effect\nProfessor E: Well , the {disfmarker} Right .\n",
      "PhD F: compared to , you know , a smaller set of log probs .\nProfessor E: Yeah . No . Again you don't really {pause} look at that . It 's something {disfmarker} that , and then it 's going through this transformation that 's probably pretty close to {disfmarker} It 's , eh , whatever the KLT is doing . But it 's probably pretty close to what a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a discrete cosine transformation is doing .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: But still it 's {disfmarker} it 's not gonna probably radically change the scale of things . I would think . And , uh {disfmarker} Yeah . It may be entirely off and {disfmarker} and it may be {disfmarker} at the very least it may be quite different for MSG than it is for mel cepstrum or PLP . So that would be {disfmarker} So the first thing I 'd look at without adjusting anything would just be to go back to the experiment and look at the , uh , substitutions , insertions , and deletions . And if the {disfmarker} if the , uh {disfmarker} i if there 's a fairly large effect of the difference , say , uh , uh , the r ratio between insertions and deletions for the two cases then that would be , uh , an indicator that it might {disfmarker} might be in that direction .\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Yeah . But ,\nProfessor E: Anything else ?\nPhD B: my {disfmarker} my point was more that it {disfmarker} it works sometimes and {disfmarker} but sometimes it doesn't work .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: So .\nProfessor E: Well .\nPhD B: And it works on TI - digits and on SpeechDat - Car it doesn't work , and {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Well .\nProfessor E: But , you know , some problems are harder than others ,\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor E: and {disfmarker} And , uh , sometimes , you know , there 's enough evidence for something to work and then it 's harder , it breaks . You know ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: so it 's {disfmarker} But it {disfmarker} but , um , i it {disfmarker} it could be that when you say it works maybe we could be doing much better , even in TI - digits . Right ?\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah , sure .\nProfessor E: So .\nPhD B: Uh .\n",
      "Professor E: Hmm ? Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah . Well , there is also the spectral subtraction , which , um {disfmarker} I think maybe we should , uh , try to integrate it in {disfmarker} in our system .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Right .\nPhD B: But ,\nProfessor E: O\n",
      "PhD B: I think that would involve to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to mmm {vocalsound} use a big {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} al already a big bunch of the system of Ericsson . Because he has spectral subtraction , then it 's followed by , {vocalsound} um , other kind of processing that 's {disfmarker} are dependent on the {disfmarker} uh , if it 's speech or noi or silence .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: And there is this kind of spectral flattening after {disfmarker} if it 's silence , and {disfmarker} and s I {disfmarker} I think it 's important , um , {vocalsound} to reduce this musical noise and this {disfmarker} this increase of variance during silence portions . So . Well . This was in this would involve to take almost everything from {disfmarker} from the {disfmarker} this proposal and {disfmarker} and then just add some kind of on - line normalization in {disfmarker} in the neural network . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor E: OK . Well , this 'll be , I think , something for discussion with Hynek next week .\nPhD B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Yeah . OK . Right . So . How are , uh , uh {disfmarker} how are things going with what you 're doing ?\n",
      "Grad D: Oh . Well , um , I took a lot of time just getting my taxes out of the way {disfmarker} multi - national taxes . So , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm starting to write code now for my work but I don't have any results yet . Um , i it would be good for me to talk to Hynek , I think , when he 's here .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad D: Do you know what his schedule will be like ?\nProfessor E: Uh , he 'll be around for three days .\nGrad D: OK . So , y\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , we 'll have a lot of time .\nGrad D: OK .\nProfessor E: So , uh {disfmarker} Um . I 'll , uh {disfmarker} You know , he 's {disfmarker} he 'll {disfmarker} he 'll be talking with everybody in this room So .\nPhD F: But you said you won't {disfmarker} you won't be here next Thursday ?\nProfessor E: Not Thursday and Friday . Yeah . Cuz I will be at faculty retreat .\nPhD F: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: So . I 'll try to {vocalsound} connect with him and people as {disfmarker} as I can on {disfmarker} on Wednesday . But {disfmarker} Um . Oh , how 'd taxes go ? Taxes go OK ?\nGrad D: Mmm . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Oh , good . Yeah . Yeah . That 's just {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's one of the big advantages of not making much money is {vocalsound} the taxes are easier . Yeah .\nPhD F: Unless you 're getting money in two countries .\n",
      "Professor E: I think you are . Aren't you ?\nPhD F: They both want their cut .\nPhD B: Hmm .\nGrad D: Hmm . Yeah .\nPhD F: Right ?\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah . Huh . Canada w Canada wants a cut ?\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Have to do {disfmarker} So you {disfmarker} you have to do two returns ?\nGrad D: Mmm . W uh , for two thousand I did . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Oh , oh . Yeah . For tw That 's right , ju\nPhD F: But not for this next year ?\n",
      "Professor E: Two thousand . Yeah . Probably not this next year , I guess .\nGrad D: Ye\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad D: Um .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad D: Uh , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll still have a bit of Canadian income but it 'll be less complicated because I will not be a {disfmarker} considered a resident of Canada anymore , so I won't have to declare my American income on my Canadian return .\nProfessor E: OK . Alright . Uh . Barry , do you wanna {pause} say something about your stuff here ?\n",
      "Grad A: Oh , um . Right . I {pause} just , um , continuing looking at , uh , ph uh , phonetic events , and , uh , this Tuesday gonna be , uh , meeting with John Ohala with Chuck to talk some more about these , uh , ph um , phonetic events . Um , came up with , uh , a plan of attack , uh , gonna execute , and um {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} that 's pretty much it .\nProfessor E: Oh , well . No Um , why don't you say something about what it is ?\n",
      "Grad A: Oh , you {disfmarker} oh , you want {disfmarker} you want details . Hmm . OK .\nProfessor E: Well , we 're all gathered here together . I thought we 'd , you know {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: I was hoping I could wave my hands . Um . So , um . So , once wa I {disfmarker} I was thinking getting {disfmarker} getting us a set of acoustic events to {disfmarker} um , to be able to distinguish between , uh , phones and words and stuff . And {vocalsound} um , once we {disfmarker} we would figure out a set of these events that can be , you know , um , hand - labeled or {disfmarker} or derived , uh , from h the hand - labeled phone targets . Um , we could take these events and , um , {vocalsound} do some cheating experiments , um , where we feed , um , these events into {pause} an SRI system , um , eh , and evaluate its performance on a Switchboard task . Uh , yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Hey , Barry ? Can you give an example of an event ?\nGrad A: Yeah . Sure . Um , I {disfmarker} I can give you an example of {pause} twenty - odd events . Um {disfmarker} So , he In this paper , um , it 's talking about phoneme recognition using acoustic events . So , things like frication or , uh , nasality .\nProfessor E: Whose paper is it ?\nGrad A: Um , this is a paper by Hubener and Cardson {pause} Benson {disfmarker} Bernds - Berndsen .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . Huh . From , uh , University of Hamburg and Bielefeld .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad A: Um .\nPhD F: Yeah . I think the {disfmarker} just to expand a little bit on the idea of acoustic event .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: There 's , um {disfmarker} in my mind , anyways , there 's a difference between , um , acoustic features and acoustic events . And I think of acoustic features as being , um , things that linguists talk about , like , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: So , stuff that 's not based on data .\nPhD F: Stuff that 's not based on data , necessarily .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Oh , OK . Yeah . Yeah , OK .\nPhD F: Right . That 's not based on , you know , acoustic data . So they talk about features for phones , like , uh , its height ,\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPhD F: its tenseness , laxness , things like that ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: which may or may not be all that easy to measure in the acoustic signal . Versus an acoustic event , which is just {nonvocalsound} some {nonvocalsound} something in the acoustic signal {nonvocalsound} that is fairly easy to measure . Um . So it 's , um {disfmarker} it 's a little different , in {disfmarker} at least in my mind .\n",
      "Professor E: I mean , when we did the SPAM work {disfmarker} I mean , there we had {disfmarker} we had this notion of an , uh , auditory {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} auditory event .\nGrad A: Good . That 's great .\nProfessor E: And , uh , um , called them \" avents \" , uh , uh , uh , with an A at the front .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Uh . And the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the idea was something that occurred that is important to a bunch of neurons somewhere . So .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Um . A sudden change or a relatively rapid change in some spectral characteristic will {disfmarker} will do sort of this . I mean , there 's certainly a bunch of {disfmarker} a bunch of places where you know that neurons are gonna fire because something novel has happened . That was {disfmarker} that was the main thing that we were focusing on there . But there 's certainly other things beyond what we talked about there that aren't just sort of rapid changes , but {disfmarker}\nPhD F: It 's kinda like the difference between top - down and bottom - up .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah .\nPhD F: I think of the acoustic {disfmarker} you know , phonetic features as being top - down . You know , you look at the phone and you say this phone is supposed to be {disfmarker} you know , have this feature , this feature , and this feature . Whether tha those features show up in the acoustic signal is sort of irrelevant . Whereas , an acoustic event goes the other way . Here 's the signal . Here 's some event .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: What {disfmarker} ? And then that {disfmarker} you know , that may map to this phone sometimes , and sometimes it may not . It just depen maybe depends on the context , things like that .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: And so it 's sort of a different way of looking .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Yeah . So . Yeah .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm . Um {disfmarker} Using these {disfmarker} these events , um , you know , we can {disfmarker} we can perform these {disfmarker} these , uh , cheating experiments . See how {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how good they are , um , in , um {disfmarker} in terms of phoneme recognition or word recognition . And , um {disfmarker} and then from that point on , I would , uh , s design robust event detectors , um , in a similar , um , wa spirit that Saul has done w uh , with his graphical models , and this {disfmarker} this probabilistic AND - OR model that he uses . Um , eh , try to extend it to , um {disfmarker} to account for other {disfmarker} other phenomena like , um , CMR co - modulation release . And , um {disfmarker} and maybe also investigate ways to {disfmarker} to modify the structure of these models , um , in a data - driven way , uh , similar to the way that , uh , Jeff {disfmarker} Jeff , uh , Bilmes did his work . Um , and while I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm doing these , um , event detectors , you know , I can ma mea measure my progress by comparing , um , the error rates in clean and noisy conditions to something like , uh , neural nets . Um , and {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} so , once we have these {disfmarker} these , uh , event detectors , um , we could put them together and {disfmarker} and feed the outputs of the event detectors into {disfmarker} into the SRI , um , HMM {disfmarker} HMM system , and , um {disfmarker} and test it on {disfmarker} on Switchboard or , um , maybe even Aurora stuff . And , that 's pretty much the {disfmarker} the big picture of {disfmarker} of um , the plan .\n",
      "Professor E: By the way , um , there 's , uh , a couple people who are gonna be here {disfmarker} I forget if I already told you this , but , a couple people who are gonna be here for six months .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh {disfmarker} uh , there 's a Professor Kollmeier , uh , from Germany who 's , uh , uh , quite big in the , uh , hearing - aid signal - processing area and , um , Michael Kleinschmidt , who 's worked with him , who also looks at {vocalsound} auditory properties inspired by various , uh , brain function things .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nProfessor E: So , um , um , I think they 'll be interesting to talk to , in this sort of issue as these detectors are {disfmarker} are , uh , developing .\nGrad A: Hmm . OK .\n",
      "Professor E: So , he looks at interesting {disfmarker} interesting things in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} different ways of looking at spectra in order to {disfmarker} to get various speech properties out . So .\nGrad A: OK .\n"
    ],
    "length": 14072,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 32,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The group had a heated discussion over the functional design and the market positioning of their new product. First, User Interface introduced the basic components of the remote control and the cost of them. When discussing the user interface design, the group agreed that the product should be good-looking and branded with their company logo. Industrial Designer thought they should keep the functions simple and basic and aimed at the exterior design. Then, the group talked much about the teletext and whether the controller should be only for TV. When it came to the market positioning, the opinion of User Interface differed from Marketing's - the former tended to keep it simple but the latter thought there should be something special about the product to make it exclusive.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: So we are here to talk about functional design . Now hopefully we've all got a better idea from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} than we did f leaving the last meeting as to what it is we are up to now . So here's an agenda . Uh I'll open . Um you should know that I'll be taking minutes during all the meetings , as I was struggling to our last time uh and that'll be easier for me now because I'm not actually giving the whole presentation . Uh the additional points are just the stuff that we sent and that I forwarded on from upper management having a few bright ideas to make our lives painful .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} now {vocalsound} you can all give your presentations . We can talk about the requirements and hopefully come to some decisions . {vocalsound} Right , forty minutes for this meeting , so a bit more time than the last one . Here's the additional points I just wanted to put those in there to see if you guys had any comments on them . Uh did you all receive that email ?\nUser Interface: Yep .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So does anyone have any overall {gap}\n",
      "Marketing: Well {vocalsound} uh what comes up for me is that if we're gonna if we're gonna be marketing a product that is going to be uh having {vocalsound} no teletext , people are very comfortable {vocalsound} with {vocalsound} the idea of having teletext and using teletext , and so we're not {disfmarker} we're gonna be a new product without something that people are very comfortable having right now .\nProject Manager: Mm . Mm . Yep .\nMarketing: So that's , from a marketing perspective I I see I see a lack .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: And so we have to go , I think , in the other direction . What are we gonna have that makes this thing better than {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well tha that first point could uh also be an op opportunity because in seeing that teletext is becoming outdated , some sort remote control that can work with the Internet {disfmarker} {vocalsound} there is the opportunity that's presented , I guess .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Right . Yeah . No , I I agree with you .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: So what I'm talking about is I see that one side we're eliminating something so we have to come up with another side which is , what are we gonna be targeting our market uh that {vocalsound} identifies our product as better than {disfmarker} because it doesn't have teletext it has ta-ta-ta-ta-ta .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: So that's that's that was my reactions .\nProject Manager: Yeah . but but we are sort of being dictated that this should only be for the television .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we're quite fixed . So we're really probably , in terms of marketing , are looking for that's uh that's a cost winner rather than a fantastic new feature product .\nMarketing: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah bu but we we're designing only the remote ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: we not design the T_V_ .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: So uh we're gonna be removing the teletext out of any T_V_ that we {disfmarker} people use our remote with .\nMarketing: Yeah . 'Kay .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: That's right .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So it's kind of a stupid decision .\nMarketing: I think we take with you .\nProject Manager: But there's also the potential for mark there's a market here for our lost teletext .\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: For example someone that just goes to the shop that wants a replacement {disfmarker} wants it as {vocalsound} cheap as possible . Twenty-five Euros is the selling price , we really have to innovate here I guess .\n",
      "Marketing: That's what I'm that's what I'm talking about is is that we have to find something that is gonna be very attractive about this product 'cause somebody , some people are gonna be hap unhappy 'cause it took {disfmarker} they can't ac access their teletext .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: Okay . 'Cause we're talking about {vocalsound} eighty percent or ninety percent or ninety-five percent of the televisions out there are are teletext .\nProject Manager: K yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: So so it's it's not that I'm criticizing the product at all . It's just when we eliminate that then what do we bring ? What are we bringing in to take the place of this ,\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nMarketing: and we have to d {disfmarker} in my opinion we have to double up .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: If we lose one we need to bring two or three .\nProject Manager: Okay . Okay I think that the {vocalsound} last point is probably quite uh straightforward . Obviously the the {disfmarker} w it has to be branded . 'Kay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So then the double R_ will be our our {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: On the product yeah . Can you handle that black and yellow ?\nUser Interface: I think one of {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I tho I tho I thou I think Rol Ro Rolls-Royce might mind , but don't worry .\n",
      "User Interface: I think w , yeah , one of the things that we should also keep in mind um when we're doing this {disfmarker} I mean our company's slogan is we put the fashion in electronics , right . So I think our kind of {disfmarker} our target here is to {vocalsound} have some kind of very like sleek {vocalsound} nice look remote and we want it to be functional as well , but I think one of the main selling points is that we don't want it to be clunky like like this thing here .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: You know we don't wanna a big clunker . We want something that looks nice and it's fashionable and so {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So you have this ?\nProject Manager: Nah . So we have three presentations , and I think we'll go in order of participant number here . So we can have a look at the working design first from participant two . That's {disfmarker} {gap} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: That's fine . Okay so\nProject Manager: Mm it's enough . But uh click it on off ?\n",
      "User Interface: so you all know me , I'm the Industrial Designer . And we've some basic components that um our remote is gonna need , just basically every remote'll need 'em .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: We need some kinda of power d power source . Um we have to decide on our our user interface , which is his department , but the in user interface is also a major component . Um we need a programmable digital signal processor to um to take the input from the user and translate that into uh into electronic signal , which we pass to the infra-red L_E_D_ , which you aim at the television uh which {disfmarker} and it receives that signal . You need a on-off switch um I don't know how that got in there . And uh we also need to um have the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} if we want a universal remote we need to have encryption codes for the different makes of T_V_s . So we need to know all the different you know all the different signals and so that'll require some memory as well . Um so here's just a basic layout of how how the remote would work . You ha the v the power source is in the upper right-hand corner there , and you can see that uh we have the user interface here which is connected to the chip which does all our signal processing , and then passes that signal on to the infra-red L_E_D_ and that signal is then emitted and received by the television at the photo-transistor . So {vocalsound} those are the basic components that need to go into this and everything else is pretty much uh open to move around .\n",
      "Marketing: Now is {disfmarker} would this be {vocalsound} considered just a standard uh um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I think any des\nMarketing: This is not this is not cutting edge technology we're talking here .\nUser Interface: No .\nMarketing: We're talking about existing technology .\nUser Interface: Right I think {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Nothing is being modified or upgraded or new discoveries .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah this is just {disfmarker} this is just a basic layout of ev {vocalsound} of all the components that w w are gonna be absolutely necessary f to have a working remote . We can add things in like if we wanted some voice recognition , I mean that {vocalsound} I mean {vocalsound} that you can kinda say would {vocalsound} would fall under the user interface and the digital signal processing chip .\nMarketing: Okay . Okay .\nProject Manager: Do we have an idea of costs of different components ?\n",
      "User Interface: Um well the most the most costly components are gonna be the chip and the uh th it could als basically the user interface and the casing are gonna be expensive as well .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: Um the L_E_D_ and the the transistors and everything else are you know they're they're pretty cheap . So depending on what we want our functionality to be , um the chip could be expensive or it could be cheap .\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nUser Interface: Um depending on the n amount of memory we need in there and stuff like that and h and h {vocalsound} you know how much power .\n",
      "Project Manager: Do we have any ballpark figures for that yet ? No .\nUser Interface: Uh I don't have any figures right now .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: We uh we have to wait until we get to a more specific design phase for that .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Um but {disfmarker} and I think a significant part of the cost could be the actual the actual casing itself and and you know the the b the buttons and things like that , I think .\nMarketing: N okay . Mm . Mm the shell ?\nUser Interface: Yeah . Basically yeah .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: So yeah . That's all I have really .\nProject Manager: Okay . Thanks . And we have participant three , which I believe is Pedro .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I can give you that to click on .\nIndustrial Designer: Hey mouse .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Open . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And you wanna get {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: When we're fighting over it's also more {disfmarker} lot more fun . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: View a slide show , that's what you wanna do , yeah ? Just go up to view .\nUser Interface: Click , don't {disfmarker} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay\n",
      "Industrial Designer: This doesn't work . {vocalsound} So yeah function design . Um you guys know me , Pedro , and um what I found is we want to do fashion and I think , honestly , we should keep technology low and just simple basically and try to aim for design . If basically a case will will cost the same if it looks good or bad so we ma we have to make it look good . Um something cute and small . The big chunky remotes are died in the eighties . So we should just go for something that people will like to actually look at .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And um although mo most people will buy s televisions and everything for uh {disfmarker} that have loads of loads of little functions and everything and they mostly end up using simple functions and little things and most the people won't won't get too mad of actually having to go the {disfmarker} to the s to the television to , for instance , tune in their {disfmarker} the stations . There's no need to have that in the remote . So um um as for what I would recommend for uh the the interface design , and uh I will change the colours on the on the logo , but {vocalsound} um we should go for the user-oriented device , so simple controls and good ergonomics . Um and uh although I th I th I'm still here recommending the teletext so I'll remove that , I guess , but um we should go for the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: But I t I think what the {vocalsound} the management recommendation was less that there's a worry that teletext will become outdated rather than we shouldn't have it . So I I still think if it's cheap enough functionality-wise to include , it really should be in there .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Because otherwise we're just going to {disfmarker} I mean {vocalsound} even if it's necessary or not , if you {disfmarker} if you're given the choice between a t a remote with teletext or without uh when it really {disfmarker} if it i {vocalsound} if it isn't more expensive for us to k make {disfmarker} because as far as I understand it , {vocalsound} it can be operated with the same set of buttons , yeah ? So it should be in there .\nUser Interface: Right as far as {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: i it's just uh {vocalsound} the cost of an extra button . I mean software-wise there's really no difference .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Okay . Isn't {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I think .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} I have maybe a silly question . I {disfmarker} in the very beginning it said with the with the advent of computers there's gonna be the {disfmarker} it's gonna be out-moded teletext . I I don't understand how those two things are connected . How does how does computers and teletext {disfmarker} h how {disfmarker} why is one eliminating the need of the other ? I don't understand that .\nProject Manager: Well maybe what we're getting into here is the the idea of uh Internet through the T_V_ for example . So that might play on what we can do .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah the they're basically aiming at saying that {vocalsound} you would use {disfmarker} you know a couple of years ago teletext to be the easiest way to check like for uh uh the scheduling and the next programme and stuff like that\nUser Interface: Scheduling . Um to find out what what you're watching even if there's commercials you know .\nIndustrial Designer: and now {disfmarker} Yeah\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: and now you can c look it over Internet . But I still think teletext is way more convenient until until we have the same commodities .\nUser Interface: I think I ha I agree .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah 'cause , yeah , I just {disfmarker} I don't see the cross-over between computers and television . I mean I do see the cross-over in some sense ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , but it's not happen yet . Yeah .\nMarketing: but but but but with the {disfmarker} the remote is is used for television , okay .\nUser Interface: Well for me {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well you have digital T_V_ still already .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: So so if we make the cross-over and we're gonna view television on computers then we're then we're losing the the necessity of the remote . S\n",
      "User Interface: Unless you have a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well there there is a {disfmarker} for example on digital T_V_ systems you have {disfmarker} you can press a button and you can buy things in adverts ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: and you can uh you can view through a catalogue for example .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: A a family member of mine has got a system where you just um you can {disfmarker} Yeah , and there's other features for example on other systems where you can pause live T_V_ and things like that . They're just features from the Internet uh from computers are are coming into the T_V_ sort of under the covers , but you still use it through a teletext .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: So now the things to think here are that that there's gonna be more functionality , potentially that we can handle .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah but we we don't we're not aiming a command for that . That's the thing . And all of those require the other commands with more complexity and more software and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {gap} I think a lot of that's proprietary anyways . You're not gonna be able to , you , like command a TiVo with our remote . I don't think .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm . But still there there's an opportunity . If if it's {vocalsound} , for example , a trainable one then we're {vocalsound} just simply having like an up , down , left , right , an okay button or something like that might might do as well in future proofing it . {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah but we would increase the price to try to make it a trainable one , so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm . Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well I dunno . One way the other teletext was there but I guess we can remove it or , you know , make two separate interface designs .\nUser Interface: I think if it's possible you should try to you know have a talk with management about that . Just you know {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah I don't I don't see the logic .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: I I don't see the logic in elimination of teletext , I just I I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , and neither do I in fact .\n",
      "Marketing: but I'm not a tech-mind either . I just don't see the cross-over between computers and and and\nProject Manager: Bu uh .\nMarketing: {disfmarker} 'Cause we are designing something for a television , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I'll communicate that back to those guys there a a and th the message really we wanna be sending to them is that , although teletext may become outdated w there's no l logic in not having it in there anyway i if it doesn't affect the price .\nUser Interface: Right it's just not\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um but I I think what they're pushing us towards here is in terms of thinking of ways to future-proof our system for future systems that have something else other than teletext maybe .\nUser Interface: {disfmarker} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: We are selling it to an existing market .\nProject Manager: I dunno I'm {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah but we're not putting some {disfmarker} there's no no putting anything in in the place of teletext .\nMarketing: That's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: That's the problem .\n",
      "Marketing: and and , yeah , and and we're also {vocalsound} marketing a product . It's {disfmarker} what I'm seeing is a is a mid-range cost product .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: So so w we can't go and pump a whole bunch of technology into this thing\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: because all of a sudden we are gonna have cost overruns . So if we drop {disfmarker} if we are gonna choose to drop teletext , again what are we adding to the product that makes it marketable ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Hmm . So if we're keeping it basic we're loo loo what we're looking to sell it basically is it's uh just being very easy to use , looking exceptionally good , that sort of thing . 'Cause we really don't have anything else there , do we ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: I don't I don't see it , and to me if I'm gonna market a product for b for beauty for for design I'm gonna I'm gonna try to market it at a much higher price . I need to make it special with a high price tag . I don't want to make it economically uh g uh competitive .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: I want I want to market it as exclusive . So I would market this product it {disfmarker} at eighty-nine Euros and come up with some really {vocalsound} beautiful exterior design or something th but but I don't think we have that flexibility .\n",
      "Project Manager: But i if design if design is cheap and functionality is basic , then twenty-five Euros is probably a high price for a commoner garden {disfmarker} stan standard T_V_ so the place {disfmarker} uh remote the then the place we're going to justify that cost is through through design through making it a a sleek elegant {vocalsound} high-priced basic remote . Does that make sense , huh ?\nMarketing: No I no I I understand what you say ,\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: but what I'm what I'm , okay {disfmarker} we probably need to move along ,\nProject Manager: Yeah we probably should .\n",
      "Marketing: but my my concern is trying to find a marketing niche for this product ,\nProject Manager: We we're doing alright for time .\nMarketing: and if I'm coming in with a with with twenty-five Euros , which is mid-market price , um then what am I going to give these people for this ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: So that's just my question , but we can keep talking .\nProject Manager: Okay . Sorry that kinda cut into you there .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No just I I would I would advocate for continuing teletext and those would be the basic commands . Um as for , you know , the the case design uh maybe I'll come up with more concrete ideas . Right now it's just the idea of simplicity and slickness , cute and small um {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Right . I'm just thinking you know with all these universal remotes that are out there , how many people {vocalsound} how many people actually use every feature that ar you know i like these trainable remotes and things like that , where , you know , it's just so confusing to do {vocalsound} to use all these functions . Where I think the largest portion of the market is just gonna {disfmarker} you know they lost their T_V_ remote , they need another one that'll work with their T_V_ . They want something that looks nice , that that that isn't gonna break when they drop it , that you know that maybe it's it's ergonomic , it feels good in your hand , something like that .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: I think that's gonna be where you're gonna find the biggest , you know , market share .\nProject Manager: So we are looking for something that looks good and just works , rather than looking for any special features . Is that {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I think the more bells and whistles we add , it's just gonna cut into our into our profits .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Because I think as we as we add costs for things like uh {disfmarker} for like if we add the voice recognition and things like that , I think {vocalsound} you know what percentage of the of the um of the market is actually gonna use that ?\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: Maybe five percent , you know ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah mm .\nProject Manager: But we can talk a little bit more potentially in the marketing marketing presentation about this .\nUser Interface: and how much {disfmarker} Right . Yeah okay .\nProject Manager: Be a good idea .\nUser Interface: I'm sorry .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh sorry , I didn't mean to cut in {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Sorry boss {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: I'm not the boss {vocalsound} . Okay .\nMarketing: Oh P Pedro , I just want to say quickly I I would really like it when you can come up with some more bells and whistles , eh .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: You know sell uh {disfmarker} things come to my mind is uh uh something that's uh {vocalsound} um voice-activated . I know we're getting into some , I hope , some big money on this thing , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think that's probably a question more for for this guy here , yeah .\nMarketing: Is that for over here ?\nUser Interface: Yeah . Well it's kinda both of us .\nMarketing: Okay , alright .\nProject Manager: Is it ?\nUser Interface: Us us user interface .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: That's {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: 'Cause uh and I think of voice-activated I think of of {vocalsound} how many times I've I've lost my my remote and I can't find it . So some way that I can I can find my remote by clapping my hands or something\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . I was thinking about that . Then your lights would go off , though . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: uh and and so so um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: But this 's just something . I'm trying to find some bells and whistles 'cause when they talk about tel taking out teletext , it's like , what are we gonna put in ? What makes this thing attractive ? And it's only for televisions . So we {disfmarker} everyth our our competition out there has got these these multiple adaptors where they can use 'em for their V_C_R_s , their D_V_D_s , their {vocalsound} their televisions and we're coming out with one remote for television only . And so to me we have to make this a really special product\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: I I I don't s I really have to say I don't see the market niche for this product . At this price I don't see it yet . I'm {disfmarker} I I go along with this , because this is what we're given to try to market , but I I don't see the market niche for this product without without some really sort of something really special to identify it as as unique in the market .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: But we th that should be design .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: That should be the design basically .\nUser Interface: Right .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I think technology we'd we {disfmarker} we're not in the price range to do it . We don't have the money to do it towards t f technology so we should we should aim at design .\nMarketing: Okay . Have to do {disfmarker} you have to do it in the box ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: Okay well , so so that's up to you then to {vocalsound} to make this box in something that's absolutely extraordinary .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Maybe make it in the form of a gun . We can sell it in United States .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I have a question uh for you . Does any of the um the features that Pedro's spoken about here have any implications we might not have thought about on in terms of just pure functionality ? In terms of making it work or the cost of that or {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I don't {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I think all these things are pretty standard . I think we'll be okay .\nProject Manager: Okay . 'Kay . Cheers . Onto participant {vocalsound} four . {gap} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Well {vocalsound} you know for marketing f {vocalsound} marketing for me is uh {disfmarker} and uh how do I go here ? Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm you can just click .\nMarketing: Go go .\nUser Interface: No no no\nMarketing: Is that right ?\nUser Interface: you just get off that . You just click anywhere .\n",
      "Marketing: Ah-ha . Yeah , what for me is it um {disfmarker} I d I don't know what I'm marketing right now , okay , 'til you spoke and when I wrote this , I don't know what I'm marketing . I just know that I I was identified as a a {disfmarker} we identified ourselves as a as a developer , as a manufacturer , and as a as a um distributor t to other wholesalers . And so the th the twenty-five Euros that we've identified as the sale price is a wholesale price rather than a retail price .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: That's what we decided here . Um so what I did is I I decided that {vocalsound} that this this needs to be a product in a in a sense can market itself . So what we've identified here as our main marketing stratagem is is in design . We're making the most beautiful attractive uh whatever we decide it is . So that means we have about seven more minutes or ten minutes left .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: Um {vocalsound} so I would like to have a product that that we can sell easily . So I say inspiration , so having something beauty , something attractive , uh something that in a sense will sell itself .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: Uh innovation I think fits into what we're talking about here with design . Uh cutting edge technology , I don't think we're gonna have that , these were ideas I was putting together , um unless we come up with some New Age product a as far as the casing is concerned . I I wanna make this thing something that I can identify as special in some way , so maybe we can have some {disfmarker} I I talked about environmentally sensitive , uh maybe we have a product that can be identified in some way as advantageous in a home . I don't know . These are just thoughts . Uh I wanted to talk about uh who we are as a as a corporation , that we're new , we're aggressive , we're competitive , we're we're trying to provide a product from a new perspective rather than from an old corporate line . So to me it's about selling d uh our identity {disfmarker} our corporate identity along with the product . {vocalsound} Um what I found is that the projected costs are competitive .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Uh we're kind of in the middle of the market , but what I'm seeing is that the market is ready for {disfmarker} I I identified new technology , but again , because what I see is budget restrictions and limitations , I don't know that we can bring any new technology into this thing . If if we could have a technological something {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I have an idea .\nMarketing: Mm p please .\n",
      "User Interface: And it's kind of {vocalsound} along the s lines of environmentally sensitive , and it may even fit into ergonomics , and even kind of address the issue of losing losing the remote , what we were saying it's a common issue .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: Um what we can do is , well you know that batteries {disfmarker} throwing a aw remotes run through batteries like crazy . Right ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Solar . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: And {vocalsound} s for some people {disfmarker} Yeah {vocalsound} . {vocalsound} Well maybe not a solar remote but instead what about if we had like a power cradle ?\nMarketing: But solar {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Like a a cradle that is is there to hold the remote when you're not using it , so you'll always know where the remote is 'cause you have to put it back there to charge the remote , and we can , instead of having instead of having , you know , replaceable batteries we'll just have a power cell that stays there for the life of the remote . You never have to get {disfmarker} go through the {disfmarker} go through {vocalsound} uh all these different batteries . And also you can {disfmarker} I I think it's a good opportunity for the user design {disfmarker} or for {disfmarker} not just for the user design , but also for the {disfmarker} just for the look and feel of the remote as as a whole . You know you could have some kind of neat little , you know , {vocalsound} a sexy design for d a cradle and the remote itself .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Blah , I like it . I like the idea , but we're talking about {disfmarker} in cost is gonna probably double .\nUser Interface: It w it would increase the cost .\nMarketing: But boy , we can sell this thing , because there's no batteries , it's environmentally sensitive , i we can identify it as a safer product in some form .\nUser Interface: And you could page the remote if you lose it . Maybe there's a button on the cradle .\nMarketing: Yep , that's right . I really see\nProject Manager: Now the the question is can we make this for less than twelve-fifty per ?\n",
      "Marketing: But the cost i No no . No no , we have t we have to change the end cost .\nProject Manager: We we well do we necessarily have to change the end cost because uh {vocalsound} Can we dl can we do that without {vocalsound} uh changing it twelve-fifty per product , if we basically can sell more based on this ?\nMarketing: There's uh {disfmarker} I mean I don't see it anyway . Yeah , that's gonna be up to these guys .\nUser Interface: Well\nMarketing: I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} my reaction is no , but\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} what I can do is I can d look into ho well Pedro and I can look into how much this might increase our our costs\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: and you can look into what kind of effect an increased cost is gonna have on our on our final numbers .\nProject Manager: Yeah we we can certainly push for a more expensive product if that's gonna be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Well , see I I {disfmarker} see I I'm an advocate to make this an exclusive product . You know , let's let's sell this wholesale for for fifty Euros , sixty Euros . Let's make this thing really exclusive , environmentally sensitive , uh high-tech design , uh ergonomics , all of this . Just make this thing uh , yeah , the the the Rolls Royce of of remote controls .\nUser Interface: I {vocalsound} I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Every home's got to have it . If you don't have one , hey what kind of remote do you have ? Oh you've got one of those , oh fantastic , I want one of those too .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I just don't have enough money right now .\n",
      "User Interface: I just don't know about that , because in order to do that {vocalsound} {disfmarker} in order to price it at that kind of level I think we'd need to have every functionality that all the other competitors are offering like being able to operate , you know , the D_V_D_ player and , you know , the stereo system and all that . Which is a pretty basic function that w we've opted out of . And additionally we're m maybe not supporting teletext um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Nah , I think we can say with certainty now that we are supporting teletext .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: But I do think there are some basic features that we don't have that a lot of other remotes are going to have .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yep , one one thing I don't understand is h they've they've given us this package , okay .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Now uh in my opinion we need to give them a package back , okay . They say they say okay here you go . They gave us a fundament a foundation of of what they want ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: and and w it's our place to kinda analyse and evaluate . I don't think it's our place to create their product for them , maybe it is . I don't know what kind of role we have in this {disfmarker} in the corporate ladder uh , but to me it's like , okay , you have got your {disfmarker} here's our ideas , okay .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: And then let them look at those ideas and they say , yeah well , we can we can raise the price twenty percent , you know we like this idea , this idea no , but {vocalsound} to me it's it's about a choice , do we follow their directives or do we make uh presentations back and and then and then discuss ? beca I I do not {disfmarker} I do not see the market niche for the product that they're handing f handing us right now .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: I don I I d\nMarketing: I don't see it .\n",
      "User Interface: I have to disagree though . I think our market niche is basically people who need {vocalsound} {disfmarker} who have lost their remote or uh who've broken their remote and don't wanna send back to the manufacturer , they just wanna run out to the store and get a remote , and then they're gonna look on the shelf and they're gonna see ours is the nicest looking remote . It does what they need . These aren't {disfmarker} I I think that it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: And and th to get to back to another point , sorry uh uh {vocalsound} for cutting in but , I th I think it's important to remember that that this remote has to work with multiple T_V_s , yeah , 'cause it's selling on its own .\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: It's not going to be specifically for Hitachi T_V_s or or whatever .\nMarketing: Right .\nUser Interface: Right .\nMarketing: No I understand that .\n",
      "Project Manager: So technologically , if I understand it , uh T_V_s {vocalsound} T_V_ remote's working exactly the same way as video remotes and D_V_D_ remotes . All you need to do is train them to the individual one , all you need to do is is know the the f like some four-digit code .\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: So saying that it works with all T_V_s is equivalent to saying that it'll work with D_V_D_s and other things .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Nope , they've identified the product as not working for anything but televisions .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh okay okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah y y you you wouldn't {disfmarker}\nMarketing: They've identified this product limita\nProject Manager: We have done this .\nMarketing: That's why I say I don't I don't see the market niche for this .\nIndustrial Designer: The interface will be different .\nProject Manager: I see .\nMarketing: If we if w if we were going to have a product that worked for D_V_D_s , V_C_R_s and everything , then I can see the market niche ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: but we we're only identified as going for televisions without teletext .\n",
      "User Interface: Right .\nMarketing: And it's like whoa we ha in my opinion we have to go with something that's extremely exclusive to make this thing marketable ,\nUser Interface: Well here's {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And I I'd {disfmarker}\nMarketing: because who wants just a television remote ?\nProject Manager: Mm sorry .\nUser Interface: Right . We he well here's my thing about that .\nMarketing: I don't . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: If you're in the market for this ultimate remote , you're not gonna go for just a television remote . If it can't control {disfmarker} if it can't control your your D_V_D_ player and a al if y if you can't get that all-in-one ultimate remote , that just {disfmarker} you can throw all your other remotes away . I'm not gonna buy a d seventy-five Euro remote .\nMarketing: That's right . {vocalsound} I I I have a tendency to agree with you . I really do .\nProject Manager: So we really can't chase that .\n",
      "Marketing: That's why I say I quest I q I question the marketability of the product . I really question where we create the demand .\nUser Interface: So I think what we {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: We're really looking for something basic .\nUser Interface: So that's what I'm saying {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: The the one thing that that that you said really struck a chord with me here in that we're we're carrying the corporate identity with the product , but we're actually looking for a large profit at the same time where I'd be inclined to go back to upper-level management and say like let's just cut down our profit expected on this product because we are actually branding our company here . We're selling more than just the product . We're trying to get mind-share about uh Real Reaction to to the people who are gonna buy consumer electronics . We want people to eventually say , oh that's that's Real Reaction that's a good m make . It's reliable . And and we're gonna make it {disfmarker} we're gonna win mind-share by uh either being a fantastic product\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: or for it working , it just being good , reasonable-priced , {vocalsound} and solid . So if we can make {disfmarker} if we can put an emphasis here on it not breaking I think that's in itself an extremely {vocalsound} big thing .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . I think that's big .\n",
      "Marketing: W {vocalsound} okay if you if you drop the cost , now if you make if you make {disfmarker} go to the other side of the cost scale , and you make it less expensive , then all of a sudden now we're going into an a a new market area . So we can say low-cost uh uh um uh good design , beautiful , wa-da-da-da-da-da .\nIndustrial Designer: Good design .\nProject Manager: We only have a few minutes left .\nMarketing: But what I'm saying is right now we're middle market .\nProject Manager: Is twenty-five Euros a mid-market price for a remote ?\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Yeah\nUser Interface: I think so , yeah .\nMarketing: for for multi for a multi-function remote , that's a mid-market price . In a discount right now you can buy 'em on sale sometimes for about about uh eighteen , nineteen Euro ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: and that's for the multi-functions , uh D_V_D_ , V_C_R_ , uh catch-alls . And and they have 'em in a little box in the middle , and and this is the consciousness that most people have about replacement remote controls . So to me {vocalsound} , to market this a t only a television remote control we have to change consciousness . We have to have something that will change people's thinking to identify this as advantageous , and I don't know what that is . It's gotta be low-cost or high-cost with with special design features .\n",
      "Project Manager: Well I'd be inclined to say , if we can make the design better than any comparable remote while reducing the cost , then that's the way we really should play it . If we can take it down to you know fifteen rather than twenty-five and make a low profit-margin on it ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: but we're really doing that to sell the brand . Yep we have five minutes left . Uh rather th uh to to to sell for Real Reactions .\nMarketing: Or my d {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: And I can communicate this to to the more senior {vocalsound} uh mm people within the company here to to get a reaction . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: What about um the idea that I had with the cradle ? How do you feel about that ?\nProject Manager: Well how does everybody feel ?\nUser Interface: Or how does everybody feel ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I mean I I {vocalsound} well we g we're talking about the other end now .\nProject Manager: {gap} I I think {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I like it .\n",
      "User Interface: No , but I {disfmarker} that's the thing I I don't think it's necessarily the other end .\nMarketing: I like the idea , but we have t we have to find out {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: The other the o the problem with that in my mind I just think off-hand as a as a consumer , would I wanna buy that ? And I think maybe not because I've got a remote and I'll take it to different chairs , I'll take it to different {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: I w I don't wanna go over somewhere and put it down . It {disfmarker} i if it is gonna be somewhere that you put it down then it needs to be at the side of your armchair ,\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: and that implies that there's only one T_V_ user . So it's very good for some people but it's not a like {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well it lasts {disfmarker} it would last for several hours on its own power , but when you're done with it you put it back in the cradle .\n",
      "Project Manager: But it it takes away the ease of use of the remote to a certain extent .\nUser Interface: Yeah\nProject Manager: You have to l sort of remember .\nUser Interface: well it {disfmarker} Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: You have to d shift down the side of the couch to find it and put it back and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: I d I d I d I think it it {disfmarker} in my mind it doesn't seem like something that oh I'd really want uh because of that fact .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: But I I don't know , that's just my opinion .\nMarketing: Well , I think again it's it {disfmarker} we have a cost issue here . You know if we're gonna go in this direction , to me we're going to the other side of the cost range .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: Are we gonna make this {disfmarker} selling selling the cost as a high high-tech uh um environmentally sensitive whatever , or are we gonna go to the lower side of the range ? {vocalsound} Again I don't see our market niche in the middle for our product yet .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: I don't see it yet .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So what do we think maybe we should {disfmarker} Pedro , do you have any opinion on it ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh we should keep it simple , mm medium-low cost mar um cost area and uh make it look good .\n",
      "Marketing: W {vocalsound} a question I have in in a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} 'cause I I I think I agree with you on , we gotta make it a box . The box is gonna sell it I think , the outside , the casing .\nProject Manager: Really need to wrap up now .\nMarketing: Can can can we have multiple designs ? Have a modern , have a traditional , have a {disfmarker} you know , and so so instead of them all looking the same , people can have maybe four or five different designs they can choose from . I don't know what that creates cost , or {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Well the the problem with that is we may end up with a whole bunch of inventory of a of a poor design you know . So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yep one over another . Yeah , okay , I hear that .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , complicated but {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Um but what we could do is some kind of {vocalsound} well I mean {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah we we need to , I mean , have a few designs to look at and then come up with something that I think we all agree is , you know , the best fit . I think w what's really important is it has to look good , it has to feel {vocalsound} {disfmarker} it has to feel good in your hand ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: it has to be durable , it has to a and I think it's really important that it doesn't look cheap . I think I think we have to make sure people look at it an and feel like it its like a quality remote . Even though the cost may be low .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: What ab what ab {disfmarker} what about a a remote that's {vocalsound} that {vocalsound} doesn't maybe look like a remote ? Just an idea .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: Just just okay 'cause I mean we all know what a remote looks like on the outside . They're selling these things everywhere . Maybe that could be part of our design exclusivity , is we make a remote that doesn't even look like a remote it it opens like a telephone .\nUser Interface: Or what if it looks like a pen ?\nMarketing: Doesn't matter , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I'm just jus I talking about some {disfmarker} something to make this thing unique .\nUser Interface: A pointer ?\nMarketing: It {disfmarker} That's the thing , I'm gonna keep thumping on .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: I'll sell whatever you guys design .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I don't have a problem selling a product , that's not the issue . I give you ideas , you guys create the product . Once you have the finished product I'll find a way to sell it . Don't worry about it . I just give you these things now , because these are my thoughts and feelings .\nUser Interface: So\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: just {vocalsound} to touch on m my point one last time that I had brought up . Um I really {vocalsound} {disfmarker} un unless you guys are die-hard against the fact that um it's possible like it reduces the usability of the remote b and the fact that you can't lose it on your own , I think it still might be a good idea to investigate having like a power cradle .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Because I really think i in a certain sense it almost like {disfmarker} for me I would want to have that just , because I know at the end of when I'm done watching T_V_ that when I'm done , oh I better go find the remote and put it back where it belongs . Maybe th th th that's just some people that like that .\nProject Manager: I mean there's al there's also remote controls I remember that that worked uh , this hasn't been done in a while I think , but th as a as a watch .\nUser Interface: A lot of people {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No no .\n",
      "User Interface: As a watch ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , there is remote control watches um ,\nUser Interface: Mm 'kay .\nProject Manager: but I think they're a sorta eighties thing , so it might not be easy to market in it {disfmarker} uh but the the technologies came along and it might be cheaper to make now .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah they are not simple .\nProject Manager: Those things may have been inexpensive for all I know .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: One thing I just thought about when you were saying that , is that the p our target market is gonna be someone who has lost or broken {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That's what I was saying .\nMarketing: We gotta stop ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Gotta cut up .\nMarketing: Who's lost or broken their their remote . So {vocalsound} how many remotes do they wanna buy ? Can we p can we sell them a remote that can maybe guarantee they will not need to buy another one ?\nUser Interface: Exactly .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: And so with with with this kind of system or locator or something , to to think about , how have people been been losing or breaking their remote ?\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: How does this happen ?\nProject Manager: The last remote you'll ever buy .\nUser Interface: And also presumably they've {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And and then and then design the product , maybe some component of the product that can identify this as the last one you'll ever need to buy .\nProject Manager: Well if if we're going down that then we can {disfmarker} we don't need to go the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Exactly .\nProject Manager: it it strikes me that the locator feature might actually be uh quite expensive to make .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Whereas actually just putting it in a power cradle might not be too expensive at all because that's just done with mobile phones\nUser Interface: True .\nProject Manager: you can just n we we have said we have actually similar products that we can take from and potentially cut costs there .\nUser Interface: Right . Yeah . The locator'll definitely be more expensive . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Um need to look into whether we can do that but uh I think we we have some m mobile phone-based products uh checking quickly our Internet . We really need to finish up here . But uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {gap} uh {disfmarker} we can make it in the shape of a coffee pot . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah we have the {gap} the power-adaptor products . We sell power-adaptor products . So for example there's nothing stopping us using that technology .\nMarketing: It's uh just it's that I think it's telling us to stop our meeting .\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So we have the c we probably have have on-line in our in our system , we have the ability to create this , we're talking about .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah I think so ,\nMarketing: A charging system .\nProject Manager: without it being too {disfmarker} In fact we can cut costs through using the manufacturing that's already gonna be in place here .\nUser Interface: Right .\nMarketing: If if we can create this we have probably five or six or seven really strong marketing characteristics .\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: I think one of the things that we can put right on the box is , never buy another battery .\nProject Manager: Yep .\nUser Interface: You know , something like that .\nProject Manager: 'Kay . Thanks guys .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\n"
    ],
    "length": 12160,
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  },
  {
    "id": 33,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was about the impact of Brexit on the capacity of Wales' higher education system and some future risk assessments for the higher education institutions. The group discussed some current problems caused by Brexit, and the efforts they have made for current and future risks, on discussing the Brexit's impact on program Eramus and international mobility. Finally, the group discussed the financial funding barriers and future financial forecast for Wales' higher education system.",
    "docs": [
      "Gareth Rogers: Good morning, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. Unfortunately, the Chair is unable to attend today, so in accordance with Standing Order 17.22 I call for nominations for a temporary Chair for the duration of today's meeting.\nJulie Morgan AM: I nominate John Griffiths.\nGareth Rogers: Thank you.\nDarren Millar AM: I'll second that nomination.\nGareth Rogers: As there's only one nomination, I declare that John Griffiths has been appointed as temporary Chair. Thank you, John.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Thank you all very much, and item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We've received apologies from Hefin David and Lynne Neagle. There are no substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2, and our inquiry into the impact of Brexit on higher and further education, and our first evidence session. I'm very pleased to welcome the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales here today, and Dr David Blaney as chief executive, and Bethan Owen, director of institutional engagement. Welcome to you both. Thanks for coming along to give evidence today. If it's okay with you, we'll move straight to questions, and Julie Morgan.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Good morning. Bore da. I wondered if we could start off with you telling us what evidence you can see that the Brexit process has had any impact on Welsh higher education so far.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Can I preface the response by just reminding you that we are, by contract and by role, apolitical, and a lot of the judgments about the impact of Brexit essentially reflect where people sit politically in terms of whether they think it's a good thing or a bad thing? We're not going to go there, obviously, today, so we'll stick to the facts as we can see them, and hopefully we'll be able to help you, but there are areas where we are unable to help. That's part of the reason.\nJohn Griffiths AM: We certainly do not expect you to enter the political fray in any way.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Thank you. But even in terms of your assessment of whether this is going to be a good thing or a bad thing, a good impact or a bad impact, some of that inevitably in the end becomes a matter of your politics on it, so we will be as careful as we can be on that. In terms of the impact of Brexit on higher education, clearly, the significance here is about the contribution that higher education can make to Wales. So, we fund provision; we don't fund providers, technically, although obviously there's not much provision without providers. So, we are interested in the sustainability of higher education providers, but fundamentally the issue is: what does the HE system in Wales do for Wales, and what impact might Brexit have on the capacity of the system to continue to deliver for Wales? So, we know that universities make annually about \u00a35 billion of impact; 50,000 jobs. Of course, in Wales, all of that economic impact is really very significant, and uncertainty about the relationships and the arrangements with Europe is one of the most significant issues confronting university management at the moment. That has an impact in a number of ways. We can identify at the moment the extent to which the HE sector in Wales is exposed to sources of income that are located from the EU, so EU students, structural funds, and EU research funding, and so on, from the EU. We can identify some of that, but, actually, what happens in the future is much harder to be clear about. We are beginning to see some impact in terms of applications from EU students and I'll ask Bethan to share some details on that in a moment. We're also beginning to pick up, only anecdotally, some signs that there are increasing difficulties in the UK sector, and the Welsh sector as part of that, in playing in some of the EU collaborative research activities. And that, I think, just reflects the extent to which EU partners consider that British partners might be a stable partner as we go through this transition period. We don't have data on that\u2014that's anecdotal\u2014but there are signs that some of those relationships are beginning to become a little bit more difficult. In terms of the financial impact of that, clearly, if it is accepted that the UK is a net contributor to the EU then, presumably, some of the money\u2014we're almost immediately straight into politics if you're not careful\u2014but some of the money will be available back to the UK, and the extent to which Wales benefits or not from that returned money is a function of the political relationship between the Welsh Government and Her Majesty's Government. It's not necessarily the case that Wales will always lose out in that relationship, but that will become a matter of politics. There's a broader dimension, which is about the economic impact of Brexit on the UK economy and how much tax revenue there is and all of that. I think it's very hard for us to be definitive about how that's going to play out. I think that depends on the deal and how it all unfolds over the next several years. But we can certainly anticipate some turbulence and exactly how that plays for institutions remains to be seen.\u00a0We can touch later on on the extent to which they are sighted on\u00a0this and preparing for it. So, in terms of recruitment, Bethan.\n",
      "Bethan Owen: This is based on the UCAS\u00a0applications and the report that was published at the end of June, 30 June.\u00a0The European Union-domiciled applicants to Wales have decreased by 8\u00a0per cent, which contrasts with a 2\u00a0per cent increase for English institutions, and non-EU\u2014so international students, not from Europe\u2014have also decreased by 9\u00a0per cent to Welsh institutions, again contrasting with a 7\u00a0per cent increase in England. So, those are the signs of changes.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Could I then just ask you what you see as the main pressures on the Welsh higher education sector at the moment?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: The funding position would be the main pressure. The recommendations made by Sir Ian Diamond in his review of higher education funding and student finance are in the process of being implemented, and the changes to the student finance arrangements will take effect from this September. However, the recommendations for re-establishing funding at Welsh institutions are expected to take quite a bit longer. That funding, when it returns to institutions, is intended to re-establish funding for higher cost provision, both full time and part time; reinstate funding for innovation; and maintain, at the very least, the research funding in real terms. Universities, in the meantime,\u00a0are trying to minimise the cost reductions that they're making in order to maintain the infrastructure, so that when the funding comes they can get the best value out of it. We have announced our funding allocations for 2018-19. For the research and teaching grant, though, we are still funding at a lower level\u2014\u00a312.5 million less\u2014then the starting point for the Diamond report, the 2015-16 starting report.\u00a0But we expect to be able to start introducing funding from 2019-20 to make a start on implementing Diamond. And it's probably important to note that the Diamond recommendations predated Brexit, therefore the challenges introduced by Brexit are in addition to those that the Diamond report was addressing. The other pressures relate to student recruitment. I mentioned the EU and international students. There is also the start of a reduction, both in Welsh-domiciled and English-domiciled applications to Wales. Enrolments are obviously the key important number, which we'll see later. And the other pressures include pay and pension costs, not least the issues around the universities superannuation scheme pension fund, where there's potentially a significant increase in cost. Increased student expectations for modern facilities and infrastructure bring a requirement for capital expenditure and borrowing, which bring their own pressures. And finally, the uncertainty about potential consequences that could arise from the review in England of fees and funding\u2014the Augar review.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: In terms of European Union students and enrolment, is Wales forecast to do less well than England and, if so, why might that be?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: They are not forecasting it. It's very difficult until the enrolments are made, and it's also very hard to see\u2014the data that we see is the UCAS\u00a0data. Institutions also recruit directly, so until we see the actual recruitment\u2014. I think the arrangements that have changed from 2018-19 also impact on EU students. So, now, they have to find the full fee, whereas previously they were getting the grant in the same way as\u00a0Welsh students. So, I'm speculating that that might be having an impact as well on EU students' appetite to come.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. First of all Llyr, then Mark.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Well, that's straight into what I was going to ask, really, about what you think the factors are that led to this 8 per cent or 9 per cent drop in EU students applying to study in Wales, where we see a 2 per cent increase in England. Is that it, or are there other things that you've taken into account? What's your assessment of the reasons behind this?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: It's very difficult to be definitive about the reasons, but I think there are probably two. The one that Bethan has already indicated, which is the change in student support arrangements for EU students, will have\u00a0an effect of perturbation.\u00a0That's probably relatively temporary\u2014let's hope it is\u2014as that settles down because, actually, the deal for EU students coming into Wales is no worse than that coming into England. Ours would be better because the fee level is slightly lower, but we do struggle in Wales in terms of the\u00a0Anglocentric nature of the media and so on. So, getting the messages out is a challenge. The other dimension is that when you're in a highly competitive recruitment market, you have to do what you can to look attractive. Part of that is about being able to invest in facilities, and\u00a0particularly buildings and kit, and the relative levels of investment between Wales and England over quite a long period of time now probably have an impact on that. Certainly, anecdotally I know, from my own family, that a lot of the choices have been made in terms of the state of repair of campuses and so on. There's something rational about that, isn't there? If you've got a system that is relatively better invested, then you're likely to have a better student experience because the resources are likely to be better. So, that's not irrational. We saw a sort of similar but opposite effect when the \u00a39,000 fee maximum limit came in, and some institutions, mostly in England\u2014there was one in Wales\u2014chose to pitch their fee levels really quite low, relative to that \u00a39,000, and caught a cold in the student recruitment market because fee levels denote quality in the student mind.\u00a0So, the price sensitivities work quite differently. So, again, if you've got a relatively better invested part of the system, then that might well be one of the reasons why it looks more attractive.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: That latter factor would affect the whole of the cohort, not just the international recruitment, of course.\nDr David Blaney: Indeed. Yes, indeed. The implementation of the Diamond recommendations is crucial to that because that's re-balancing where the policy of investment goes.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. And Mark.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: If I heard you correctly earlier, you said that the applications from non-EU students were also down by 8 per cent or 9 per cent. So, forgive me a certain scepticism\u00a0about the explanation of the fall in the EU students being that they did get the fee grant and now they do not. If that's the explanation, why are we seeing the same fall in non-EU applications?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Well, I think the Welsh domiciled are also now having to face the prospect of finding a loan for the whole of the fee. So, that would potentially account for that. There's also a demographic dimension here with the downturn in the 18-year-old school-leaver profile, and that actually is happening in Wales at a slightly later point than in England.\nMark Reckless AM: But this is non-EU students, and I think you said, Bethan, an 8 per cent or 9 per cent fall in them as well.\nDr David Blaney: International non-EU. I beg your pardon. I misunderstood.\n",
      "Bethan Owen: There's also a mix effect. I gave a number that was for all English institutions that there will be differential impacts on.\nMark Reckless AM: All English or all Welsh?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: Well, I contrasted the Welsh position with the English position where they were seeing growth. If you look, then\u2014and we don't have the detailed information, but, again, what UCAS publish is some analysis by tariff. They analyse by type of institution\u2014in other words, the grades that you need to get into institutions\u2014and there is a trend for growth being in the higher tariff institutions. So, there's a mix effect in there as well, and I think there's undoubtedly an element of perception of how welcome overseas and international students are, and that's something that we know the sector are working on with Government.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Why would that affect Wales\u00a0more than England? Do you think there's been perhaps too great a negativity about Brexit in the sector?\nBethan Owen: I think it's the mix of institutions that we have. So, we only have sector information published at the moment. When we look at the mix of institutions that we have, we will probably see a differential impact between Cardiff University and others.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay, Mark? Sorry, David, did you want to add anything?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I was just going to say that we would expect to see quite differential performance in the English sector, so the overall numbers are being brought up by substantial increased performance with some of that sector, and it's a question of how many of that type of institution you have in Wales.\nMark Reckless AM: So, performance is increasing amongst the English universities, but not amongst the Welsh, you think.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think performance is increasing, but increasing substantially with some of the English sector, not all of it. So, you get an average for the sector that is increased performance, but actually the stronger players within that sector, with the stronger international profiles, are bringing that up, and we have fewer in Wales that have that sort of presence.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Darren.\nDarren Millar AM: Would it be fair to say, then, that the universities over the border in England are better at selling themselves internationally than our Welsh institutions? Or is it just this fact that we've got fewer very high tariff universities versus the English market?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I suspect, and this is speculation\u2014I suspect that it's a bit of both. I think some of it is to do with the mix of different types of institution. I would then come back to the point I was making about the Anglocentric nature of the UK media. If you're looking overseas, I think Wales has to work harder to penetrate the consciousness.\nDarren Millar AM: But, forgive me, don't international students just look at the UK as a whole? How are we comparing to Scotland, for example, or Northern Ireland, in terms of their universities? Do you have a comparative figure for Scottish universities?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: I haven't got that one with me for now, but there will be one in the data.\nDr David Blaney: Yes, we could get that.\nBethan Owen: Again, it's a combination of being part of the UK but differentiating, and the ability to differentiate the strengths of Wales, so attracting those students to Wales specifically, on top of the UK draw.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: So, in terms of the efforts that have been made, there's a programme now that is being run by the sector in Wales\u2014it's 'Study in Wales'. It's relatively recent; you could argue that we could have got there earlier. But that is a determined collective effort to present Wales as a good place to study, with particular messages about what distinguishes studying in Wales from studying more broadly in the UK. In a sense, that is responding to the need to increase the presence of Wales in an international market. So, that sort of initiative I think is very good, very welcome. It will take a while to actually have an impact, but I think that's exactly the sort of work the sector need to be doing more of.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: What are those messages on why prospective students should study in Wales?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: One of them in particular is relative safety. We know that one of the considerations, particularly for parents of overseas students, is are they going to go to a safe environment, and we know that the perception of international students who study in Wales is that this is a comfortable and safe place to be. That's partly a function of the size of our larger cities\u2014quite a lot smaller than many of the cities in England. So, that's a key message. Being part of a UK system is also an important message there as well. So, we've got a UK-quality system, a UK degree, and the strength of that brand is available in Wales, but it's available in a way that is safer and more supportive, I think is the messaging that's coming through.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. We'd better move on, I think, hadn't we? Darren, then.\nDarren Millar AM: I just wonder to what extent you have been able to plan in your financial forecasts for the next few years ahead for the potential impacts of Brexit. What have you built in, if anything?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: In terms of our funding, we receive our funding annually, but the sector provides us with financial forecasts, and we use those for monitoring sustainability. So, the last full forecasts that we had were in July 2017. We are due to receive a full forecast at the end of this month, and we obviously have updated information from institutions.\nDarren Millar AM: And they're three-year forecasts that come through to you, aren't they?\nBethan Owen: They are four plus the current year.\u00a0So, we've got numbers to 2019-20 at the moment, and expect to go to 2020-21.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: And what are the universities expecting? What do they anticipate?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: Well, for 2017-18, which is the year we're about to end now, they were expecting \u00a338 million income from European students, and approximately \u00a391 million from the various European programme funding sources, and that's about 8 per cent of the total income\u2014\u00a31.5 billion\u2014of the sector. The forecasts are assuming that that continues, albeit that institutions\u00a0have various scenarios that they have for all sorts of scenarios that we can all speculate on, and, as I mentioned earlier, the balancing act of maintaining infrastructure and\u00a0resources and staff in the short term is where we are at the moment, or where the sector is at the moment. And there are also signs that the banks and lending institutions are becoming a bit more risk-averse in providing borrowing to institutions, and of more differentiation between individual institutions being made than has possibly been the case in the past. The sector made an operating deficit, again looking at all Welsh institutions collectively last year, 2016-17, of \u00a317 million. That's before other gains and losses. And we're expecting a similar collective level of deficit for this financial year, if not slightly higher. Now, these are managed deficits and we are not currently seeing critical short-term cash availability issues in the\u00a0sector. However, the increase in funding from Diamond is a key part of enabling the sector to return to longer-term financial sustainability. Short-term challenges can be met if there's a reasonable prospect of future funding. You can manage in the short-term, but there comes a point when the big cost reductions and\u00a0infrastructure reductions have to be made. And, again, having mentioned the pressures on pay, pensions and other challenges, it is difficult to gauge whether, if those factors come into play as well, some of these cost reductions may have to be made before funding comes in to replace\u2014either Diamond\u00a0funding or the European replacement funding.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, would it be fair to say that, in terms of the funding arrangements, and, in terms of the student numbers, one reason why we've got this recruitment\u00a0problem is this lack of investment in the capital infrastructure that we've\u00a0seen in recent years because of the\u00a0financing arrangements from the Welsh Government, and the fee regime that we had previously, and\u00a0the student finance regime that we had previously, not getting more cash into our Welsh universities perhaps, and that, over the next few years, there's going to have to be much more significant investment in capital if we're to raise the game and be more competitive, yes?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: Yes, that would be fair to say.\nDarren Millar AM: So, to what extent are they planning for more capital investment\u00a0in those financial strategies that they've been preparing and presenting to you?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: They are all planning for capital investment. They are in different positions in terms of capacity\u00a0to borrow and the assumptions. This year, 2018-19, is the first time that we've had capital funding in our remit letter\u2014so, we've got \u00a310 million of capital funding, which is very welcome, with a prospect of a further \u00a320 million. So, that we will be allocating shortly. That will make a difference, particularly\u00a0to those institutions who are not finding it as easy to borrow from financial institutions. Some of our larger institutions have borrowed\u2014Cardiff University issued a bond. However, there are internal governance processes that are putting tight restrictions and\u00a0expectations of what that money will be invested in. But they all have plans to do it and they\u00a0need the confidence that their forecasts and long-term future funding prospects are secure enough that they can get the confidence of borrowers then, and service the costs of those borrowers.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, the Diamond dividend you've mentioned a few times. What clarity is there from the Welsh Government at the moment in terms of how much they anticipate the Diamond dividend will be, and what proportion of that\u00a0is going to be released to HEIs in the future?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: I was very carefully not describing it as a dividend\u2014a re-establishing of funding that we had in the past for higher cost and innovation and maintaining research funding. The timescales are difficult, because we have an annual remit letter, and we can work with Welsh Government officials, and they can only give us a sense of when they think the funding will be released. But 2018-19 is\u00a0the start of the system, and because of cohort protection\u2014so, protecting those students who came in on a different deal to the deal from 2018-19\u2014in the early years there is an element of double cost; there's a cost of seeing out the old system and the different cost of implementing the new system. So, at the moment, we're certainly not in a position to tell the sector with any degree of certainty what funding would be beyond what we've allocated for 2018-19, with some sense of what 2019-20 numbers we're working with because we allocate our money over an academic year\u2014so, by definition, we've already made assumptions of four months of the 2019-20 funding, albeit that's not approved yet in the budgetary process.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: But you're not being given a steer at all as to what you expect the additional resource that you might have to make available to Welsh universities might be as a result of Diamond. You must have some idea.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think it's fair to say that officials have been as helpful as they can be with us, in terms of the planning assumptions we make and indications about whether or not we are being too ambitious or not ambitious enough. So, I think they're being very helpful; as Bethan said, they're constrained by the process\u2014they can't pre-empt a budget process. And you folks will be fully aware of that, of course. The other question I think you asked was how much of the money released by the new arrangements will come into higher education. At the moment, we are expecting all of it to come into higher education, as the product of the arrangement between the current Cabinet Secretary and the current First Minister. The extent to which any changes there cause that to come under threat is something I can't judge at the moment. But we have had in our remit letter from the Cabinet Secretary a clear indication that we can expect our resource to grow over the next few years, as the Diamond process unfolds.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. I'm just going to bring in Llyr at this stage.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Bethan said in an earlier answer that, I think, the financial forecasting from universities forecast something pretty consistent in terms of what they're hoping to be\u00a0receiving in income, for example. But we've already discussed the near 10 per cent drop, potentially, in international applications. So, does that tally, really, or are they going to be recruiting additional students from the UK market or\u2014? What's the plan?\nBethan Owen: I was\u00a0reflecting on the last point when we had consistent information across the sector.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. So, they may need to revisit that in the light of this.\nBethan Owen: I'm expecting that the forecast that we get at the end of this month will reflect the reduced applications we've seen, and an element of that will be reflected in reduced improvements\u00a0as well.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. So, we don't really know, then, whether\u2014it's unlikely that they are going to expect a consistent fee income, really.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think it's fair to say we would expect them to respond to what they're seeing in the UCAS process. Even if they didn't, they would all, in any case, have sensitivities for what they would do if things don't come out in the way they hope. And if they didn't have that then we would be on their case, of course, because we want them to be properly sighted.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Thanks.\nJohn Griffiths AM: And we have to stick to the Brexit impact. Darren.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: Can I just ask, in terms of the impact of Brexit, have you done any assessment of what you think might happen, or have any of the institutions made available to you any assessments of what they think is likely to happen to their individual institutions, going forward? You've mentioned scenarios earlier on, David, so what scenarios have you set out?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: There's a Welsh Government HE Brexit working group, which is chaired by one of the Government directors, and we sit on that. And we have provided that group with early summaries of the risks and the potential impact, in terms of the exposure of the sector to EU-sourced funding. We have, as part of that working group, explored those issues that it would be really very helpful for either the Welsh Government to try to put in place or for the Welsh Government to persuade UK Government to do.\u00a0And I think, in our submission,\u00a0we identified\u00a0a number of areas of what we would consider to be a helpful action, and that has been worked through that working group. We know that it has informed Welsh Government's position, in terms of what it does and also in terms of the conversations that they have with\u00a0Her Majesty's Government. Beyond that, what we haven't done in that working group is share the work that institutions are doing individually to look at how they would\u00a0respond to different scenarios. We are not able to do that here either because, inevitably, they would have varying\u00a0degrees of unpalatability and they would have to be managed very, very carefully. You take cost out, which is essentially the response, you actually take people's\u00a0jobs out, and all of that\u00a0has to be managed carefully. So, that's not really a matter for public consideration, but we do know\u00a0that the institutions\u00a0are looking at a range of scenarios on what they\u00a0would do. Bethan mentioned earlier\u00a0on that the\u00a0current deficit for the sector is a managed deficit\u2014it's not something that has taken\u00a0them by surprise. They are responding to what they\u00a0see as the dip between where Diamond was reporting and where the money starts flowing. Similarly, I think we're comfortable\u00a0that there is a managed approach\u00a0to the scenarios that they're testing within institutions. So, they will do what they need to do to sustain themselves. The bigger issue really, in a public policy context, is the potential damage for the sector to be able to deliver for Wales in terms of research and skills development\u00a0and all the other contributions.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So, you're confident that they're taking a robust approach\u00a0to planning\u00a0for various scenarios, going forward, are you, as individual HEIs?\nDr David Blaney: Yes, and as the deal becomes more clear politically, then they will obviously have greater\u00a0clarity in terms of which of these scenarios\u00a0they need to work up more fully, but they are sighted on it.\nDarren Millar AM: Okay. Can I just ask about fee and access plans, and how Brexit might impact them? To what extent\u00a0do you think that they\u00a0could be impacted?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think there are two dimensions to maybe touch upon there. Fee and access plans are approved annually by us. They are approved in advance of the recruitment cycle for the year that they apply to. So, we're just in the process now of finalising our consideration of fee and access plans for the 2019-20 academic year. So, there's quite a long lead time. We, as part of that process, go through similar\u2014we look at their financial sustainability, which is based on their forecasts\u2014data to the stuff we've just been discussing. And\u00a0also, of course, the fee plans themselves make assumptions about how many students of different types, from different domains, are going to be recruited. So, clearly, if there is a continuing downward pressure on EU student recruitment, then that will reduce the amount of fee income that's going to come in, unless they can find other students, and that will reduce the amount of investment in the various activities that are identified in the fee plans. In terms of process, we have two things that we can do. If institutions are becoming aware that the basis upon which they've submitted a fee plan is fundamentally different from the reality, then they can come into us for a change to their fee plan. So, we have a change process. If it's not fundamentally different, but there are always differences between what you plan and what happens three years later\u2014. We also monitor after the event and, if there are differences, we would then obviously require institutions to explain those differences. If they've had fewer students and less investment, we would need to understand that. Conversely, if they'd had more students, and potentially more investment, we'd want to know what they'd spent it on, and if they've done different things, we'd want to understand that as well. So, we do challenge through a monitoring process. The only other thing that's perhaps worth saying is that, in the 2019-20 fee and access plans\u2014they're not published yet, so I can't give you the full detail\u2014five universities have made reference to Brexit and the Brexit impact, and things they want to do through their fee and access plan to try and address some of those issues, so they're in there as well.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: But we've already said, haven't we, that it may be nothing to do with Brexit, this dip in EU recruitment, because there are other factors like the attractiveness of the estates and the environment that young people might be educated in? But they're making assumptions that it's linked to Brexit, are they?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Not really. I think\u00a0they're making assumptions\u00a0that it could be. There are things they want to do to enhance and to protect\u00a0student mobility, and some of that will be funded through fee plan investment. So, the Brexit conversation between the EU and the UK Government might or might not sustain\u00a0Erasmus engagement, and if it doesn't, then they need to find other ways of trying to support that sort of thing. So, that's what we're beginning to see in the fee plans. It's them thinking about how else we can do this stuff.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay, Darren? Mark.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: You mentioned the fee and access report. What else do you do to assure yourselves that Welsh higher education institutions are effectively planning\u00a0for Brexit?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: We've touched on contingency plans, but, in an environment\u00a0of uncertainty, I think it's difficult for any of us to know what the right scenario is. I think rather than looking at worst-case scenarios, what the sector is also focusing on is the promotion and looking for additional or increased sources of funding. So, we touched on strengthening the Global Wales engagement in order to sell Wales, so more focus on marketing Wales overseas, but also within the UK. The other area where the sector is working at a UK level very hard is making the arguments to UK Government for maintaining access to the successor to Horizon 2020, which is arguably a larger part of the whole funding infrastructure\u2014students is one part, but the whole funding infrastructure\u00a0for maintaining research capacity. So, working with UK universities to make arguments at UK Government level for maintaining access to those sources of funding is also a part of what the institutions\u00a0are doing. We mentioned the Welsh Government's HE Brexit group. That group, which is the Welsh Government\u00a0group, is being advised by members on it, and that's informing Welsh Government officials when they engage with UK Government\u00a0as well.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Do universities seek your advice on what the risks and, indeed, opportunities of Brexit may be and what you think they should be doing to plan for them, or is your role more one of monitoring what they do as opposed to advising what they should do?\nBethan Owen: They are autonomous institutions and ultimately\u00a0their governing bodies are responsible\u00a0for ensuring their sustainability. It's not a relationship\u00a0where we would advise and direct, but it is a relationship\u00a0where we would question the scenarios if we consider from our experience that we would have expected other scenarios to have been tested. It's that nature of conversation, rather than directing.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: I understand you don't direct, of course, but my question was about advising. You're overseeing, or monitoring\u2014or whatever you like to describe the role as\u2014quite a number of institutions, and presumably you therefore have particular expertise within your organisation, and I just wondered whether higher education institutions are doing enough to draw on that.\nBethan Owen: I think we can advise\u2014we can advise based on data and information that we can see. We can advise based on our judgment. The big thing in this whole\u00a0Brexit scenario is the uncertainty and the extent to which our speculation is better informed than the governing bodies or the sector collectively is probably the issue.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think that's right. So, there's a relationship\u00a0with the sector and there's a relationship with individual institutions, and they are different. So, we have engagement collectively with the sector. Bethan meets with the finance directors, and I meet with the vice-chancellors. We actually\u00a0have the sector\u00a0and the funding council together on the Welsh Government's group. So, some of these conversations are happening in various ways, where we're all gaining intelligence about what might be a sensible set of planning assumptions. Then, if we see an institution that is manifestly giving signs of not being sighted on some of these risks, either through their forecast or through other assurance\u00a0activity, we will challenge. We have an annual cycle, with two points in the year where we reassess the overall risks of individual\u00a0institutions, and that's based on a whole range of hard data but also a range of soft data. Our links into institutions\u00a0are many and varied. We have lots of conversations and we take all of that in the round and form an assessment about the financial sustainability of the institutions but also the extent to which we think their governance and management arrangements are properly sighted and facing properly the challenges that they face. In some ways, we say it's not about the challenges they face; it's about how they face the challenges. Our alarm bells really ring when we get the sense that, actually, either an executive or a governing body hasn't really noticed. We're\u00a0not in that place, I'm really pleased to say. I'm not worried about short-term crisis with any of the institutions. There are medium-term real challenges, both because of Brexit and because of other contextual factors, but at the moment the sector is a managed sector, which is good. It's not always like that, but we're in, I think, a good place at the moment. So, our role is definitely to challenge where we don't think they are making sensible assessments, but it's not to say that their assessment is wrong and ours is right; it's just to have a conversation\u00a0about, 'Why have you done this and what has informed your thinking?' It's slightly more one step back and slightly more subtle, but it is, as you imply, us using the intelligence we gain from all of those conversations when we talk to individual institutions as well.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Llyr.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, thank you. We had evidence last week from some of the higher education institutions, including Cardiff University, and it's very interesting, in relation to Erasmus+ and the mobility funding for students that, I think, only 40 per cent of the mobility funding in Cardiff is paid for by Erasmus+. I note that you've been consulting on national measures for higher education performance and that one possibility is using international mobility as a performance indicator. I was just wondering whether you might go further and expect universities to actually make commitments\u00a0to funding international mobility from their own fee incomes as part of that.\n",
      "Bethan Owen: Again, reflecting on the latest fee and access plans, seven of the universities are referring to mobility\u2014either they have targets in them or are explaining what their plans are\u2014so they are including an element of it from their own income and fee and access income. However, Erasmus is such a well-established and long-term plan\u2014if we were looking at a scenario where that infrastructure wasn't available, to implement anything similar to that would be much less efficient and much more costly. And to enable an infrastructure that allowed\u2014. Ideally, you'd want something that all Welsh institutions could take part in, and that takes some investment and some co-ordinating. And, equally, you need to have the arrangements with your overseas and European institutions. I think it's easy to underestimate the accumulation of time that has gone into establishing Erasmus. So, I think replacing it would be a challenge.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: And the point was made clearly last week that the brand is internationally recognised. When you enter into Erasmus+, you know exactly what you're going to get, and all of that. But there have been criticisms as well about degrees of flexibility and this, that and the other, so I'm just wondering whether\u2014and there is presumably going to be some change on that front although I'm hoping we can buy into it, as others have done who aren't in the EU\u2014that emphasis on encouraging institutions to look more proactively at funding their own mobility efforts would be positive.\nDr David Blaney: I think the\u2014\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Sorry\u2014especially if it means that they do more of it.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Indeed. I think the Welsh sector is definitely committed to trying to find ways of promoting and resourcing that sort of mobility. There are signs that some of the restrictive elements of the Erasmus programme are going to change anyway, because that's under development and that's positive. There have been positive noises as part of the Brexit negotiations about wanting to carry on being able to access the Erasmus programme. Nothing is agreed until it's all agreed apparently, so we'll have to see on that one. That would be far better, I think, as Bethan indicates, than trying to replace it with a made-in-Wales only, but you could have a made-in-Wales on top. All of these challenges also create opportunities because they stimulate thinking, and so the fact that seven of the eight universities\u00a0are already now using their fee plans as a vehicle for thinking about this is positive, and I think we can take that on from there.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Because that 40/60 split struck me as being the opposite to what I perceived\u00a0the situation to be. A key\u00a0part of your role is to work in partnership with students, so I'd just like to ask what work have you done with students, in terms of maybe protecting their interests as the Brexit scenario evolves?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Well, as you say, we do work with students. We were the first of the funding councils\u00a0in the UK to have a memorandum\u00a0of understanding\u00a0with the National Union of Students in Wales. We work very closely\u00a0with them and the president\u00a0of NUS is an observer on our council. So, we have close links with NUS Wales and we're very proud of that, and it's very productive. They don't have a vote, but they do have a voice and it really matters. We we're, again, ahead of the rest of the UK in requiring all HE providers to have student charters and there are elements of student protection within the student charter. The UK-wide quality code also has elements in it where arrangements have to be specified about the protection of student interests. That is particularly, in essence, around circumstances where a provider gets into difficulties and they might wish to close a course or something more drastic and then what arrangements are in place to make sure that those students who are in train are protected. So, that is there and we've worked hard with the sector and with NUS Wales to get those measures in place. There's more development work in train at the moment, so we've asked Universities Wales to construct a protection that takes account of the approach to protecting the student\u00a0interests in higher education. We're also requiring\u00a0further education institutions\u00a0who are regulated and deliver higher education to do similar or the same, and that's very important. The students who are HE students in FE are absolutely not second-best, and they should have the same protections.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: But is all this a general piece of work? It's not Brexit-specific, although, no doubt, it may\u2014.\nDr David Blaney: I think that's fair to say, yes. The other dimension around Brexit is the immigration status of EU students, and that's, kind of, beyond our pay scale\u2014that's a UK Government issue.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Is that something that you have a view on?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: It's clearly in the interest of the enrichment of the curriculum\u00a0and the student experience for students in Welsh institutions to be able to have students from other EU countries\u00a0in the mix. So, it would be nice to find ways of continuing to facilitate that.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Now, of course, you have a statutory duty as well to assess the academic quality of the work in our higher education institutions, and I'm\u00a0just wondering\u00a0what potential impacts you think that Brexit might have on that particular aspect.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think there are possibly\u00a0a couple of things to say, and one, in a sense, echoes what I was just saying in the final part of my previous response, which is that part of the quality of the student experience\u00a0is the richness that you get from having students in your cohort who have different backgrounds and different perspectives. So, if there is a continuing\u00a0reduction in the number of EU students coming into Welsh institutions, then that richness deteriorates. That doesn't\u00a0mean to say that the base or the threshold standard of what's required for a degree will come under pressure, it's just about the richness on top\u00a0of that, which will be, in a sense, a quality-enhancement issue. That would be something that we would wish to try to protect against, but in the end you can't force EU students to come\u2014you have to try and look attractive, and we've touched on that. The baseline requirement assessment\u00a0of quality will not be affected by Brexit, except in so far as the machinery we use to discharge\u00a0our statutory responsibility, which is through the Quality Assurance Agency, which themselves\u00a0are accredited\u00a0with\u00a0European Association for Quality Assurance in Higher Education, the European machinery\u00a0for higher education quality. And there's a set of standards around that, and we would obviously wish not to be in a position where our ability to use and adhere to those standards is adversely\u00a0impacted upon. Those\u00a0standards will still exist, and it will be possible for the British system to adhere to them, even if they're not actually able to play in the same way. Then the only other thing I would\u00a0say is that one of the factors that can cause\u00a0the quality of the learning and teaching experience to be likely to become inadequate is when institutions come under financial pressure, just because their capacity to maintain the same sort of student experience can get under pressure. So, clearly, we will be looking for and making sure that institutions manage the financial pressures, if there are any\u2014and there are some at the moment, as we've described\u2014and manage those carefully. And in all of that, we will expect institutions to do their duty to make sure that the commitments they've already made to students are carried through. So, where students have already started on the course, they need to be able to finish that course\u2014you can't just pull the plug out. So, all of that comes into the arrangements for quality as well. So, we'll be keeping an eye on that.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. A lot of what you've told us in the last three quarters of an hour or so will have costs attached, depending on the impacts. Certainly, we're in choppy waters as a sector anyway, and the risk is that things will be even more choppy, if you'll excuse that level of political interpretation, over the years to come. I'm just wondering what advice you might have given the Welsh Government in terms of what level of transition funding, or Brexit transition funding, might be required by the sector, and if you have, what the Welsh Government might have told you.\n",
      "Bethan Owen: I mentioned earlier that, obviously, we've provided information in terms of the assumptions that the sector are making on income. So, for the year 2017-18, that was \u00a3129 million. I think the extent to which that needs to be replaced or supported with transition funding depends absolutely on what the final arrangements for Brexit are, but it's an appropriate point to refer to the report that Professor Graeme\u00a0Reid has produced, commissioned by Welsh Government. That was, and has, provided advice and recommendations for supporting research and innovation in the transition period. But, again, the Reid recommendations in that report build on the Diamond recommendations, and as soon as\u00a0Diamond is in place\u2014and Reid is providing recommendations in addition, to establish funding on the basis that the funding needs to be available in Wales to maintain and develop and strengthen the research and innovation infrastructure that we have.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Are you not worried, though, that the clock is ticking and that we really don't know what the situation is at this point?\nDr David Blaney: Do you mean the Brexit situation?\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: The Brexit clock, yes.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Uncertainty is unhelpful, because as I've said several times, the sector is a managed sector at the moment. I don't think there's\u2014. We're not seeing maverick stuff, but actually you can only manage, really, what you can see and what you can reasonably predict. So, the longer the uncertainty persists, the more difficult that is for institutional management and, indeed, for the rest of the machinery to support them. So, yes, the sooner we get clarity, the better for everybody, I imagine.\nDarren Millar AM: Chair, can I just ask a question?\nJohn Griffiths AM: Yes, Darren.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: In terms of uncertainty, though, we've still got this uncertainty over whether the extra cash that the Government's going to have to spend as a result of Diamond being implemented is coming to the HE sector. They've given a political commitment, but you've got absolutely no other assurance of the sums of money that are coming in. We've got the reform of tertiary education arrangements in Wales, which are also under way, so it's a bit of a perfect storm for you, isn't it, really, with all of these three things happening at the same time?\nDr David Blaney: We're certainly kept busy.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: But two of those things are in the gift of the Welsh Government to sort out for you, aren't they?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Well, the policy on the reform of the post-compulsory sector absolutely is a Welsh Government policy. The extent to which they can pre-empt a budgetary process and give us clear sight of the amount of money in future years is\u2014. Well, again, it's not for me to comment. My understanding is that that's difficult for them to do, and I would repeat what I said earlier: officials have been as helpful as I think they can be in respect of that. I mean, you're right, we've only got a political commitment between two people currently in post. It would be great to have that firmer. I'm not sure how that could be done.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: I mean, that statement about the savings accrued from Diamond being reinvested wholly into the HE sector has not been repeated, frankly, has it, since the coalition deal was struck?\nDr David Blaney: No, but it hasn't been rescinded either, so\u2014.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: No, but there have been opportunities\u2014repeated opportunities\u2014in the Chamber, where the Cabinet Secretary's been asked to repeat that commitment, and the First Minister's\u00a0been asked to repeat that commitment and has not given that commitment. That must concern you, and must concern your university sector even more than, perhaps, some of the elements of Brexit that we're discussing.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Bethan has outlined earlier on in this session the fact that institutions are currently running deficit budgets in order not to lose the infrastructure on the assumption that the Diamond money will come in. If anything were to cause significant perturbation, either to the timeline of that or to it coming in at all, then there would be much more of what Medwin Hughes calls 'houskeeping' that would be required, and that would be significant. So, at the moment\u2014I don't like the expression 'valley of death', but there is a valley to cross, and I think the sector is reasonably confident about how wide and how deep that valley is. There's a demographic valley as well. So, there are several valleys that they're crossing\u2014the metaphor fails, doesn't it, really, but I think you get the drift? So, there are a number of challenges and they can see their way out of some of those challenges, but if any one of these starts to get significantly disrupted, then that would be a real issue for them.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Could I go on to ask about other barriers to Welsh universities gaining more funding from UK research councils? What would you say those barriers are?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: Well, I think there are a couple of things, really, to say. The first one\u2014and we'll sound like a stuck record if we're not careful\u2014is that there's an issue about investment and the Reid report makes this very clear. So, he has reaffirmed research that had been done previously that identifies that, actually, the quality of the research base in Welsh universities and the productivity of that Welsh research base are both good, there's just not enough of them, and that, in the end, is a product of investment decisions. They have particularly looked at the deficit\u00a0in science, technology, engineering and mathematics areas, and I always say that research is not just STEM. I mean, STEM is important, and I'm not denying the deficit in that area, but we have to also remember that the research agenda for Wales is not just STEM\u2014it's arts, humanities, it's social sciences. If you look at the impact on public policy that could come from social science research\u2014tremendous. And we're very good at it in Wales. The Welsh impact in its research is better than anywhere else in the UK, so that's good. So, they do very well, and we just really need to invest a little bit further\u2014so continue to do very well, but put it on a broader front. If you want to be able to play into the UK-wide research funding, then the investment has two dimensions to it. One is just having enough researchers to be able to play into those increasingly larger projects rather than small-scale projects. If you haven't got the critical mass, it's very hard to make the case that you can play. And the second thing is that UK-wide research pots nearly always fund at about 80 per cent of the total cost of the research, and the other 20 per cent is meant to be found from the core research funding for the university, and if you're in a situation where your core research funding is not competitive, then you're not going to be competitive at getting that money. So, that's, kind of, straightforward. There are other things. I think it's fair to say that the Welsh sector has not been sufficiently focused on getting in on the conversations with the research councils, making sure they're in the various committees and so on. We are intending to do a bit of work to see if we can systematise that a bit better\u2014that engagement\u2014because there's no doubt about it: it's not to say that this system is in any way inappropriate, but the more you're in the conversations, the more likely you are to be better placed to respond to the research challenges that come up.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. One final question: in terms of the researcher collaborations and networks that exist, do you see potential difficulties after Brexit for the continuation and enhancement of those, and are there any particular lessons to learn from\u00a0S\u00ear Cymru II?\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: I think that there are two things to say here as well. First of all, the Brexit deal might or might not impact adversely\u00a0on the capacity of Welsh and, indeed, UK research infrastructure to play into broader collaborative activity across Europe, and, in a sense, that's a function of the deal whatever the deal looks like, and we'll have to wait and see. But we've mentioned playing into Horizon Europe, and being able to continue with that would be an important part of that capacity. It's not just the money, it's being in the club and it's the signalling that we're in the game. So, all of that would be important. And then the other part of my response to this would be that, actually, Wales will need to continue to be good at the research it does, so maintaining the quality, maintaining the impact, and hopefully growing\u00a0the critical mass. The S\u00ear Cymru initiative has been quite important in doing that, because it's been very focused, capturing key research players, and the attractiveness that that has then to other researchers around them, and to industry collaboration, and they have been areas of real strength that we've invested in. And I think they are already showing dividends in terms of the capacity to win more research funding, and to establish an even stronger presence in the international research market.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Just one further point, from Darren.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: Just very briefly, one of the pieces of feedback that the committee members received at a stakeholder engagement event, which took place prior to this inquiry starting, to receive oral evidence, was about the research funding that is available from the charitable sector, and how poorly Wales does in attracting some of that research. I think we had some figures from the British Heart Foundation, which said they have \u00a3100 million a year available for research grants, or something like that, and we're getting 1 per cent of that coming into Wales, which is\u00a0obviously pretty low down. I appreciate that research into the type of activity that they want to put their money into, Wales may not be\u00a0particularly good at, and there may be other opportunities with other charities and partnerships. What work are you doing in order to build the capacity that Wales has to attract more of that charitable sector research funding into Wales?\n",
      "Bethan Owen: One of the issues is the capacity to engage with that funding,\u00a0because of the overhead issue that David mentioned. Charitable funding at the moment doesn't attract any overhead funding. Again, that could be built in to our funding, if we had the capacity to increase our quality-related research funding. There is an element in England.\nDarren Millar AM: But that pressure's the same in other parts of the UK, is it not? So the overhead funding is still an issue in England, and in other places.\n",
      "Bethan Owen: There is an increased contribution, and I think it's an element that was increased this year to acknowledge that. But there will be differentiation between different charities. I'm fairly certain that some of our institutions will be very strong with the cancer charities, possibly not the heart foundation. And some of that will reflect on focusing on our strengths, but to have that fuller picture.\nDarren Millar AM: So, this gearing issue that you mentioned earlier on, for every \u00a31 that somebody else puts on the table, they can draw in another \u00a34 on top, because that \u00a31 will cover the overheads, whereas the rest of the research cash\u2014.\n",
      "Dr David Blaney: That's exactly it. So, the more you're able to invest\u2014. You know, we sometimes get into a conversation about the unhypothecated nature of our research funding, but actually that creates a\u00a0flexibility and the infrastructure investment that allows institutions to be able to respond to these other opportunities. Without that, they can't do it, because if you're not careful, you've got\u00a0institutions engaging in UK-wide or charity-based research activities where they're actually having to pay for it themselves\u2014they're running at a loss.\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: So that's the main problem; it's not that Welsh universities aren't doing their best to get this cash in. Or is it a bit of both?\nDr David Blaney: I think, in the main, universities and researchers will get their cash from wherever they can, so I don't think it's a lack of appetite.\nDarren Millar AM: Okay.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Well, thank you, both, for coming in to give evidence to the committee this morning.\u00a0You will be sent a draft of the transcript, to check for accuracy. Diolch yn fawr. Okay then, the next item is item 3, papers to note, the first of which is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education\u00a0on the school organisation code. The second is a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care on the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill. Paper to note 3 is a letter from the Chair of the Finance Committee regarding scrutiny of the Welsh Government's draft budget\u00a0for the forthcoming financial year, which we will be discussing under item 6 on the agenda. Paper to note 4 is a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care on parental attitudes towards managing young children's behaviour. And\u00a0the final paper to note, paper to note 5, is a letter from the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care\u00a0on the children and family delivery grant, which we will discuss later on in private session, if Members are content. Okay. Are you content to note those papers on that basis? Okay. Thanks very much. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting, and also for items 1 and 2 of the 20 September meeting. Is the committee content? Yes. Thank you very much. We will move then into private session.\n"
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  {
    "id": 34,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This meeting was a conceptual design meeting. In this meeting, the group mainly discussed the component, energy source, buttons, colours and styles of the remote control. They decided to use the kinetic as the energy source because of its convenience, light weight, fancy design and the good selling point of the environment, but they still needed more cost research. They also reached a final consensus to apply a hard plastic inner shell with a spongy plastic for the component, and push buttons for the type of interface due to their common features of convenience and user-friendliness.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Hi Kate . {vocalsound} Okay , carry on .\nIndustrial Designer: Just just carry on . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright um this is the beginning of the third meeting , the conceptual design meeting . Um our agenda should be um that we're opening the meeting , I have {disfmarker} the minutes from the previous meeting are on the shared f drive at this point . Um and we should each have a presentation to make . Um we have certain decisions to make and we have forty minutes total . It's twenty five after two at the moment , so forty minutes is five after three , {vocalsound} um which I'll be keeping an eye on the clock for us . Okay . {vocalsound} Um there are the decisions we have to turn to , but we'll come back to them in a minute after I take us to the minutes of the previous meeting . Right um as we remember , I opened the meeting , the four of us were present , the meeting {disfmarker} the first meeting's minutes were reviewed and approved . Um Sarah , you presented a marketing research report um which pretty much rep represented that fifteen to thirty five year olds uh it has to be hand-held , power , channel , volume , number keys , possibly a speech recognition . And then Steph did a second presentation um that those functions plus streamlining them with big user-friendly keys that were easy to use . I think all of us agreed with those things . Kate presented a working design of {disfmarker} going after {disfmarker} going over the basics on the whiteboard um that it should be a simple mass-produced device , because of the twelve and a half Pence cost . Um but we did talk about possibly using rechargeable batteries and having a docking place as a selling point . Um and the new requirements that it for {disfmarker} be for T_V_ only um and that it include the l so slogan and colour of the uh corporate design be included . Um {vocalsound} the corporate image . So we agreed that the target market would be fifteen to thirty five with more money than sense , that were decision makers . Alternatively it would be a manufacturer to enclose it with the T_V_ , but it still should meet those parameters . Um and that the function we agreed was volume , power , numbers , enter , channels , a way to move between channels , easy to use and hand-held . {vocalsound} Um at that point we agreed that Sarah would look at the current cost of competition , what what do the current ones sell for . Um and Steph was gonna look at ec ergonomics . Kate was gonna look at cost and feasibility of the various possibilities that we discussed . And I was to type up these minutes and work on the final report . Is this a fair presentation of what our last meeting was ?\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nProject Manager: Okay . Right . So we're ready to close that and go back to our {disfmarker} That one . Right . We're up to the point of the {disfmarker} Go back . Um {vocalsound} the three presentations . So we're going to pull the plug on me and turn to Sarah . Is that okay ? Is that alright with everybody else ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: Especially since Kate asked to be last . {vocalsound} Sarah , I'm sorry if I misspelled your name , I didn't know whether it was S_A_R_A_ or {vocalsound} S_A_R_H_ .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I respond to either .\nProject Manager: You respond to whatever you get , huh ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No worries .\nProject Manager: Okay . Um , did you do your {disfmarker} Hit {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , {gap}\nProject Manager: Ah , there it is . Ta-da .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay , first thing I want to address is um one of the points that Florence brought up , which was uh current cost of the competition devices , similar to the ones that Stephanie uh showed us and and they're uh twenty to sixty Euros , depending on uh branding .\nUser Interface: Right .\nMarketing: Some of them that have a higher brand recognition are on the more expensive end . But I think that with the current um price that we're searching for , we're well within , even on the lower end , of the uh of the market .\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\n",
      "Marketing: But I'm going to move on to more interesting um {vocalsound} more vibrant things . {vocalsound} So , I investigated the remote control market in greater detail , and my uh {disfmarker} the theme of what I was to work on was uh trend watch .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorry . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: I'm glad to see the marketing budget is being so well spent on {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I know that you all are a distance from cutting edge marketing research ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: so you know , I'm just gonna try to cloak it in really professional terms here . What's hot , fruit and veg . Spongy .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: And this is all over the catwalks , Paris , Milan , and I'm talking about clothing , furniture , shoes . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: This is really interesting change from past years ,\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: because it is much more organic , um some would say approachable . {vocalsound} And I think if we're to refashion our view of what we want in a remote control , we should perhaps think about incorporating technologically interesting fabrics and some of the bold colours into a simple handset . So . {vocalsound} I also did a little research on um {vocalsound} what again are the most important priorities in uh decision making about uh purchasing . Fancy . Functional is out . And f the fancy , and that's exactly the term , I'm I'm thinking polished , elegant , {vocalsound} you know , kind of innovative , but a cut above . This is twice as important as the next finding , which is technologically innovative . This is interesting , 'cause I think in the last meeting we were talking about technology as being so important , but maybe what's innovative is having it simple with um with uh technologically {vocalsound} superior fabrics or uh , you know , designed in interesting substances . Ease of use . Again , pretty low , I mean it's the top three , but each of the uh fancy and technologically innovative are far more important . So I think we should cloak the streamlined remote control device in a series of {vocalsound} fruit {vocalsound} fruit themed sleeves .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think that's a good idea . Don't you ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Y yeah , you know {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It sounds like the the uh covers that they use for the remote , you know , your t your cell phone .\nUser Interface: Yes .\n",
      "Marketing: Exactly . {vocalsound} Exactly . I was thinking though that instead of having something uh like patterned , you know , so , you know , something similar to a summer dress . {gap} you know , it would have like fruit and veg , is that we actually make these spongy .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: They could be {disfmarker} ini initially I thought we could start with kind of um fruit that would suit kind of uh a long uh hand-held , so banana , pineapple and pear . Um it could actually {disfmarker} the sleeve could {vocalsound} take up a lot of the {vocalsound} development and the remote control , we'd just need to get reductionist on it . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: They could be interchangeable , they're spongy , that goes back to ergonomic , and the youngsters love 'em , fun for the whole family , everyone can have their own . So what we're talking about is changing . this concept . Everyone has a T_V_ remote , but then we add in the fact that they could each have their own individual fruit .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} That's what's hot on the catwalks . {vocalsound} So , this is my {disfmarker} This is what I'm thinking .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh-huh mm . In most families , don't {disfmarker} isn't the remote {disfmarker} is a remote .\nMarketing: Y yeah , but I think I think what this would allow is perhaps a person in the family who had the most opinion about it {disfmarker} we all need a remote ,\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: but the person who is really perhaps active in personalising , I'm thinking the teenager , the {disfmarker} someone fifteen to thirty five would go out and get this additional thing the same way as you mentioned that people would get the cell phone covers .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} So when your dad's sitting there , overriding your decision , going no we're gonna watch this , you can bring out your own remote and be like zap , no we're gonna watch this .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . W and {vocalsound} plus I think {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm . Well actually some households do have three and four T_V_s\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah .\nUser Interface: {gap}\nProject Manager: and they would have a remote for each one ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so .\nMarketing: Yeah . So this is an idea and I I {disfmarker} you know , this is exactly what the research has uh has shown . So I really open this up to uh any other feedback . This {vocalsound} spongy fruit and veg .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I I think we're gonna have some trouble when we get down to the component design on this .\n",
      "Marketing: Thanks . {vocalsound} Alright .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Spongy is gonna be difficult , I'm afraid .\nUser Interface: Yep . {vocalsound} And as for as for um well budgeting as well , if we're gonna have lots of different interchangeable components .\nProject Manager: Hmm . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I I just have my ear to the market , guys . {gap} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Is this {gap} to the market {gap} ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , I mean basically we can make these things out of wood , titanium , plastic or rubber . I suppose rubber is the closest to spongy ,\nMarketing: Is spongiest , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nMarketing: That would add {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: I was thinking titanium myself .\nUser Interface: I was thinking titanium , I was thinking it's just {disfmarker} I have been influenced by pictures of iPods , and they're also minimalist and shiny .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound} They are and they they would fulfil the uh first um priority , which is fancy . I think many of us would associate those with fancy . Something else we could do is uh call it something that's fruit and veg oriented . We could call it uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The name .\nProject Manager: Are we talking about the device itself or the c or a cover for the device that would be an interchangeable cov cover as a separate product ?\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Well it would be uh a a very simple product that would have a spongy sleeve that would be interchangeable . So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Perhaps perhaps that desi that particular suggestion needs to go back to management\nUser Interface: Yeah , but it's kind of pointless , isn't it ?\nProject Manager: and perhaps go to another group to actually design as a separate product .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} That , you know , that might be {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Let's delegate . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Wo would that be agreeable ?\n",
      "Marketing: And then we could keep it titanium .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound} W w would it be helpful if um I described the components a bit , because I think it would give you um {disfmarker} maybe bring this discussion back to Earth of what we can actually physically do .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , maybe . Or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Do you wanna be next or you want Kate to go next ?\nUser Interface: I think possibly it might be more useful if Kate went next .\nProject Manager: Okay , we'll move the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} You can even have them in different flavours as well . {vocalsound} So that if you just wanna sit there and chew on the remote , it could be like pear flavour ,\nMarketing: Yeah . Or s or smelly . Scratchy\nUser Interface: yeah . Scratch and sniff . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh well I was really thinking a lot about the I_ uh the iMac kind of gel gem tone .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right , well\nMarketing: It's hot on the streets , guys .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I I I think some of this um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: you're gonna be a little disappointed with some of the things I have to tell you , but I'm afraid this is the real world . {vocalsound} So um I've been looking at the the basics of how these devices actually have to work in order to operate , and I've had some discussions with the ma manufacturing division , who have told me what's actually available , you know , what the current state of the art in components is , and some of the exciting new things they've got , but I'm not sure that it's quite what you want um . Now this isn't a very good overhead , but this is just to show you , this is the innards of a remote control um . I really need a pen or something but uh {disfmarker} does my mouse work ? No . Um {disfmarker} oh yeah , can you see my little mouse pointer ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Right . This is this is the a a {vocalsound} a remote that's been opened up\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and that's the the back of the interface . And this is a push-button one , so you see these little little buttons here , they're little rubber rubber buttons that go through onto the the board at the back and they push these buttons here . Um {vocalsound} and we {disfmarker} that's the basic construction that we've got to got to accommodate . We got to have something that pushes the little buttons that um talk to the chip that encodes the message that sends the the message to the receiver . So um I wan I wanna go through not not just addressing the um {vocalsound} uh the the points that you made , Sarah , but um {vocalsound} doing my presentation in the order I wrote it . {vocalsound} So first of all um I wanna talk about what possibilities we've got for the energy source .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Um we can have your bog standard double double A_ batteries in a replaceable um little compartment . We can have a hand {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sorry {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} A wind-up .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: a wind-up , yeah , {vocalsound} which I think is quite an interesting concept for a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sorry {disfmarker} for a remote control ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but i it maybe is {disfmarker} doesn't quite go with the um the fruit and veg .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Alright .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um one that one that I think is quite interesting is the kinetic energy source ,\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Remember , we only have forty minutes\nIndustrial Designer: where um {vocalsound} you you actually get the energy by moving the device ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: which is quite a ni a nice and neat one . You have to {disfmarker} it means that if it's sitting there for a long time it probably won't work , but you have to sort of throw it between your hands every now and then , it'll work .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Or we we had talked about solar power ,\nMarketing: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: but I thing that we agreed that that's not so good in the dark .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Now I'm afraid this is the options we've got on on the case . It can be made of plastic , rubber , wood o if you like , {vocalsound} or titanium .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Um and the nearest we've got to st to spongy there I guess is rubber , but um {vocalsound} I'm gonna come back to the advantages of titanium ,\nMarketing: Hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and basically it can have a flat surface , a curved surface or a double curved surface , but I think if we wanna use standard components , we're gonna have difficulty with anything much beyond that .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , what does the interface look like ? Um well push button , that's that's the one we're all familiar with . {vocalsound} Um we can have scroll buttons and the the scroll button can incorporate a push ,\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: so you can have it like on a mouse where you can use it to go up and down , change volume or channel or something like that and push to select something . {vocalsound} Um you can have multiple scroll buttons , um this is maybe getting a little bit complicated , but um it's it {disfmarker} the technology is there . And we can also incorporate an L_C_D_ display in the remote , but this will increase the cost . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um the electronics that actually makes the device work , we've basically got three , simple , regular , advanced , and the price goes up as we choose each of this . If we want the nice cheap one , the simple , then we can only have push buttons . All the other fancy interface designs go out the window , I'm afraid . Um pay a little bit more for a regular chip and you can have scroll buttons . If you want the advanced chip it obviously costs more , but it {disfmarker} that's what you need if you want the L_C_D_ display . And the manufacturing devision tell me that they have recently developed um sample sensor sample speaker devices . Now I don't know what that is , but I think they think it's quite important and we might want to incorporate it somewhere . Um ou our real expertise is in push buttons , I have to say , but maybe you think that's old technology . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: And {disfmarker} well I I think we've got two options . We can either go for a really cheap model , keep all of the costs down , um which {vocalsound} means a flat plastic case with an ordinary battery and simple push buttons . Or we can have something that looks a bit nicer , I think it , um won't necessarily l uh look like a pineapple , but um that {vocalsound} may or may not be a good thing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sorry . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} but it could have an L_C_D_ screen and it could have multiple scroll buttons , and it could have the the company's new development of the um sample sensor and speaker . {vocalsound} So , thank you .\nMarketing: That sounds good . Any idea {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you you mentioned that there would be a cost difference .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah ,\n",
      "Marketing: Um do you have any idea if if this could {disfmarker} if the fancy model could be done in twelve Euros fifty ?\nIndustrial Designer: I'm afraid I don't have that information available . Um manufacturing didn't actually give {disfmarker} attach any prices to any of this , I'm afraid .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: Hmm . Because , you know what , I'm being quite serious when I say that that um the things I mentioned are hot . But I think the important thing might be to choose one .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: You know , if if what you're telling me is is um some of these things aren't just f aren't feasible , maybe we could something about naming , we could call it , you know , Blackberry .\nUser Interface: Bear bear in mind it has to be the colours and styles of the company ,\nMarketing: That's uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: so what I had been thinking was something chunky and yellow and plastic with black buttons with a logo on it .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Banana ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Alright , well let's see then .\n",
      "User Interface: But um I I don't know how important that is to keep it exactly the colours of the Real Reaction company .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: It's just what I'd understood we'd be doing . That's before I heard about all this hot tips about the future , fruit-wise .\nMarketing: Yeah . But {disfmarker} yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: We we could we could do um a double curved rubber one ,\nMarketing: I'm trying to streamline mine a little bit .\nIndustrial Designer: which would allow um say a banana , but um unfortunately I see from my notes that if we do that , we have to have a push button as the interface ,\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: we can't do anything fancier .\nUser Interface: Shall we wait 'til I've 'til I've showed you what {disfmarker} well , {vocalsound} my extensive presentation {vocalsound} on what sort of interfaces are available .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nMarketing: Mm . Thank you , Kate .\nProject Manager: Thank you , Kate .\nMarketing: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: You did seem to include just in more detail what I've got though . So {vocalsound} so mine's a bit pointless . Right . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: F_N_ and F_ eight , did you say ?\nProject Manager: Yes . There we go .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I don't have it on mine though .\nMarketing: Oh I think um Florence resolved it by\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I If you do F_ uh F_N_ F_ eight again , it's {disfmarker} it'll {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Do it again .\nMarketing: F_ eight again .\nProject Manager: Keep doing it until you get it in both {disfmarker} you get it there , you get it yours without that one ,\nIndustrial Designer: I think it {disfmarker} yeah , you you will do an {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: and then you get it with both .\nUser Interface: Should I do it again ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Maybe .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: This time it should come up both .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Right then . I don't actually have a huge amount of different information then what Kate says ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: just that my method was to look at the , well , my my inspirations , which was a big collection of lots of different models of remote controls and other things that use a similar sort of thing , including M_P_ three players , uh like you know , hi-fi remotes , not just television and these things .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh having a think about the feature of ea the features of each ones , um what functions we actually need , and then how to group and arrange these on the actual the actual plastic or rubber hand-held piece . {vocalsound} Uh I've been especially interested in the iPod style scroll wheel , which {disfmarker} Well , I couldn't find a {disfmarker} the picture of the iPod w only linked to a web browser , so I couldn't copy and paste it , but it had a similar thing to this thing on the right . It has uh scroll wheels without without a display , but they they scroll like a computer mouse .\n",
      "Project Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nUser Interface: So I was thinking that uh {vocalsound} um a really simple a really simple interface with just a couple of scroll things on it um and then instead of a display the display could appear on the television screen . Like I guess an existing Sky or cable one does . Like , you know , you press enter and it comes up with what's showing on that channel at the moment , and you can do {disfmarker} you can scroll along and it'll show you what's on in the next half hour , and you scroll up\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: and you can see what's on the other channels while you're watching the same channel on the screen . Uh but I'm also equally taken with this chunky plastic kiddie remote ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: um which is really nice and fun and good to hold and nice , big , easy buttons to press , but still quite simple and quite cost effective . So\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: what seems kind of ideal for me would be to just have a fairly simple , uh not fancy but not totally minimalist , I mean just pretty simple plastic , probably , I was thinking , yellow and black , just because that's the company's colours , with very very few buttons , but that would correspond to a screen that would appear on the television screen , like , you know , {vocalsound} just small along the bottom instead of instead of having the iPod style display screen on the actual remotes , which is far too expensive .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: And when you've got a screen sitting there in front of you , you might as well have it appearing uh on the screen in front of you , it doesn't obscure much of the actual picture you're watching .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: And so on that you can , just much in the same way as an existing Sky remote , scroll along , scroll up and down .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I'd I'd certainly support that idea .\n",
      "User Interface: And uh and I definitely support uh the use of plastic and or rubber . I mean titanium would be great , but I think it might be a bit too expensive and too kinda spacey . If we're k trying to keep it colourful and slightly organic , then I think titanium's too futuristic .\nIndustrial Designer: It's difficult to make fancy shapes in it as well , we can't for example have a double curved case in titanium unfortunately .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Whereas a plastic's so cheap and easy and mouldable and everything else .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Uh {vocalsound} then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And the the having the the the screen on the television screen I think is a good idea , 'cause um {vocalsound} otherwise we're we're putting up the price not only for putting {disfmarker} building the L_C_D_ in , but for the electronics as well .\nUser Interface: And it's a little bit pointless as well I think .\nIndustrial Designer: There is that .\nUser Interface: Like when when when you've got when you've got the screen there , it doesn't have to be anything fancy ,\nMarketing: It's a duplication .\n",
      "User Interface: just a little menu showing {disfmarker} yeah , a menu , you go into one menu and then it can have your different options , whether you wanna change the settings or the you know , your information about programme that's on at the moment .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: I don't think that's to taxing to uh s engineer . {vocalsound} Um . But as for actually arranging them {disfmarker} let me go back to the to the picture of the kiddie one . And I quite like it , 'cause it's just smooth and hand-held and it's got these easily reachable buttons that quite nicely uh spaced out , so something a bit like that with buttons arranged in a kind of circle . Up , down , left , right .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Do you want scroll buttons in that as well ?\n",
      "User Interface: I I was thinking not actually scroll , like a like mouse scroll , but you know , a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I can't quite d uh describe it . {gap} you see on the one on the right , down at the bottom , is the mouse . Yeah , see where the mouse is ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: like this s style thing where you c have up , down , left and right . And enter in the middle ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Right .\n",
      "User Interface: so you pick your menu and then {disfmarker} your different options and when when you click on each one , it {disfmarker} you can go into a new menu for that . I'm getting a bit uh specific here .\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: Really we'd have to use something to show you ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . I think I think that's a g nice clean design ,\nUser Interface: but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: it's playing to our strengths which are in push button technology .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} To uh m make it .\n",
      "User Interface: If {disfmarker} I don't think I can get it up on the screen . Ah here we go . Right .\nMarketing: Oh nice .\nUser Interface: Well ,\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker} Hmm .\nUser Interface: the iPod spinning wheel is uh really complicated .\nProject Manager: Huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: It does scroll , but it is hugely complicated . What else have we got ?\nMarketing: Mm . Wow .\n",
      "User Interface: Them , they're terrible . But they all have this this feature of this uh {disfmarker} It's not quite a scroll wheel , but it's a kind of selection in this circle ,\nProject Manager: It's a selection wheel .\nUser Interface: which I think is a really good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: But we can implement it with simple push buttons , which is much cheaper .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , like up , down , left and right . Which is good . And then and then {disfmarker} Yeah , so I mean either a channel up and down , volume up and down , next appearing programmes up and down , {vocalsound} uh and then also {vocalsound} when you get into the different menus on the screen , it's got your things like settings and contrast up and down .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: So all you really need is these four buttons with the enter in the middle .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: And that's it .\nIndustrial Designer: In fact {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Look at look at this one .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh that's really nice . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Almost impossible to misplace or l or lose .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Do you think with um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Might take up your whole living room .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} It seems that that uh you guys are quite keen on the plastic , perhaps the {disfmarker} something reminiscent of the child's remote . Do you think we could put it in a in a fruit colour ? And have it abstract . You know ,\nUser Interface: Possibly .\nMarketing: we could call {vocalsound} like a fruit name ,\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: but it would be a little more abstract .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm . We we could actually do it in rubber instead of plastic if you'd rather {disfmarker} if you feel {disfmarker} if you like the spongy {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That also is possible .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Just {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I'm just just throwing out ideas .\nProject Manager: Or call it a or call it a banana and have it in yellow .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah . I'm thinking maybe we need to be a little bit more abstract if the design constraints are so {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh just something else I need to bring to your attention is have you have you seen these on a remote ? This is actually the volume up and down ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: but {vocalsound} they both say V_ on them ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: which , when you first look at it , {vocalsound} you expect that to be the down , because it looks like a downward pointing arrow ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: but it's actually the V_ to indicate that it's the volume , so uh we do need to avoid little ambiguities like these .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Nice . Good point .\nUser Interface: But we wouldn't have a specific volume up and down . If we're having the scroll wheel , then it's gonna double up as all the other up and down functions .\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nUser Interface: But then , that's complicated .\n",
      "Project Manager: I wanna thank you all for all your presentations . We have about ten minutes left , in which time we have to make some decisions on the remote control concepts . Um and I think you all have been self-stimulating of working together . Um we need to come up with some specifics of the components , um the materials , things like making the decision on the energy um and the case and the interface type things . So {vocalsound} let's {disfmarker} Mm . Right . They want us to decide what form of energy are we going to use , which {disfmarker} the choices that we've discussed were pretty much battery , kinetic or solar . Um this is where Kate's expertise comes in , and our decision making will be a little bit guided by Kate at this point .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: The {disfmarker} You were saying that the kinetic would be useful , that is you just have to move it some and you'd be able to use it um as opposed to a battery that you have to either put it in a recharger or um keep replacing the batteries . Um or solar that you'd have difficulty with it if it's a dark day , that it'll die on you , and no way to do it . That's the day you wanna use the T_V_ .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um so what's our pleasure here , what would be the cost consequences of each of the three ?\nIndustrial Designer: Oh unfortunately I don't have costing information .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: I i in terms of workability , I I think the the two front-runners are the standard battery or the kinetic ,\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nIndustrial Designer: but I'm sorry I don't figures on the difference in cost .\nProject Manager: What's the uh feelings of the group on the kinetic ?\nMarketing: I've used kinetic in terms of watches and it's very very uh handy , you don't even notice um that it's there .\n",
      "User Interface: It sounds great . I've never come across it before , but it sounds fantastic . Sounds like it could be g a really good economical {disfmarker}\nMarketing: It's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: it would make the whole thing a lot lighter , more convenient .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: It could tie in with the fanciful design\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: as uh , you know , {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: 'Cause it's really a quite attractive thought ,\nMarketing: throw the banana , you know , just gotta keep it moving .\n",
      "User Interface: isn't it ? It's like {disfmarker} yeah ,\nProject Manager: So the consensus seems to be use the kinetic if it's at all possible .\nUser Interface: a good selling point .\nMarketing: Be\nUser Interface: But it does depend how much I mean how much it costs and how much more development and research it needs .\nProject Manager: It costs . {vocalsound} Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: And and how much you do have to keep it moving ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: 'cause I'm conscious that watching T_V_ can be quite a sed sedentary activity .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: But I could market that as a um as a {vocalsound} a {disfmarker} I was thinking actually a a cost saver down the road , in terms of battery , you know .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Do your exercises while you're watching the T_V_ . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: True , yeah , m more more environmentally friendly .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's what I was thinking as well .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm . You know ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: kind of the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Thanks for the reminder for five minutes to finish , thanks .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh right , okay ,\nProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} the next thing that they wanted us to do was look at chip on print as a decision .\nIndustrial Designer: I'd {disfmarker} that that's something I maybe should have covered . Um chip on print is just a manufacturing technique\nProject Manager: Oh .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: um and I would certainly recommend it , I think , because I'm not sure I have an alternative .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: What about the ca\nIndustrial Designer: I i it it's just the way that the the the uh th the way it's ac it's actually built\nProject Manager: yeah . Oh , the way we {gap} uh-huh .\nIndustrial Designer: and you you print onto the circuit board like you might print onto paper .\nProject Manager: Oh , okay . Um what about the case ? I think they're talking there about do we want wood , plastic , titanium or rubber ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: and I think we've discussed not having titanium . One , it's too expensive , um and second , it won't do this double um curves . Um we've sort of eliminated wood . We said plastic or rubber . What's the pleasure ?\nIndustrial Designer: Well if if Sarah's keen on a spongy feel , the the rubber that we're talking about is the same as you have in those little stress balls , so it's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: That's exactly what I was thinking . I'm sold .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nProject Manager: What about you ?\n",
      "User Interface: Do you not think it might need like a kind of a hard plastic inner shell with the actual delicate workings inside , and then a kind of spongy Yeah , s thick spongy cover ,\nMarketing: Mm . Kind of like an internal egg .\nProject Manager: Cover .\nUser Interface: so it feels like the whole thing's spongy , but actually you're not damaging anything by squeezing it . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Plastic inside .\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Because I mean you could just get carried away with the with the tac\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I'd I'd need to talk to manufacturing again about whether that's actually possible , but I agree , it's uh {disfmarker} sounds like a nice idea if it is .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Well you do get a bit carried away with things that are tactile , you just wanna stroke them and squeeze them ,\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And with sports on television .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: and {disfmarker}\nMarketing: You know . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um the next part they want is the user interface concept .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I should I should r {gap}\nMarketing: I su\nProject Manager: I'm sorry to push you , but we only have a couple minutes to {vocalsound} finish with .\nMarketing: Then I'll just say I support either {disfmarker} from a marketing point of view I support either decision that the designers make on that .\nProject Manager: Okay , and it says interface . What type and what supplements ?\n",
      "User Interface: Just copy the one on the left . {vocalsound} No um a scroll {disfmarker} Well , like four buttons , up , down , left and right with enter in the middle , that will correspond to a menu on the screen .\nIndustrial Designer: Which I think technically is just push button and uh I'd certainly support that that\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: that brings the cost down quite a lot\nUser Interface: I'd {disfmarker} like push buttons with {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and it's something that we're an ex the company's an expert on .\n",
      "User Interface: So push buttons {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay , um {vocalsound} that's that . Um this is gonna sound weird , but the next meeting starts in thirty minutes . Whew .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And they actually want a look and feel design , user interface design , you can look and see this as well as I can . Marketing they want product evaluation .\nUser Interface: No , it's still it's still plugged in on mine actually .\nMarketing: No we can't , actually .\nProject Manager: Oh . Oh my , I'm sorry .\nMarketing: That's why I was looking over your shoulder\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh , okay . Sorry about that . missed that one . This ought to be fun trying to get this thing to work . Ah , ta-da .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Now it's gone again .\nProject Manager: Ah .\nIndustrial Designer: You know , I think the the company's s next project should to design a better overhead device that switches immediately . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yes , because I can't even see mine . Next meeting starts in thirty minutes ,\nUser Interface: Oh yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: these are {vocalsound} the individual actions . Yeah , right . Um the look and feel design is for Kate ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: uh Steph gets the user interface design , you get product {vocalsound} evaluation . Um the two of you {vocalsound} get to play with a Pla modelling clay um to do a prototype .\nUser Interface: Great .\nProject Manager: Uh and everybody gets individual instructions in the usual way .\nMarketing: Sounds good .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Anything else we need to do ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I don't think so .\n"
    ],
    "length": 9804,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 35,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was basically on functional design. First, the marketing talked about the user requirements based on a market survey and suggested making their new product good-looking and equipped with less buttons and a speech recognition system. Then the user interface designer stressed that they should design nothing but a remote control because their principle was to make users' simple desires into simple actions. Therefore, the proposed concept for design included just a few buttons, a screen with a back light and titanium, which was accepted by the group. Finally, when it came to the working design of the remote control, the industrial designer described the product as a portable device with some energy source, an interface, a processor, some infrared source, different encryption codes for different TVs, and speech recogniser. All these components would be within budget. At the end of the meeting, the group also talked about how to enable the users to find the controller.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: So\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I hope you're ready for this uh functional design meeting .\nMarketing: Of course . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Um so I will take the minutes you mm you three are going to do presentation . Um uh we want to know {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} at the end to know the new project's requirement so we need uh to know the the user uh needs that we want to fulfil to fulfil the {disfmarker} from the technical part we want to know how it going to work and um third part {vocalsound} uh I don't remember {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: which is not very good . Ah of course , how to to design this uh this {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Nice stuff {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} yeah . So um let's go for the three presentations , so first um Marketing Expert .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Who starts ? {vocalsound} Oh . Ha . okay .\nProject Manager: So wait a minute . Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: So I dunno if I can do that like this ? Yeah ? So it's being modified . Do you want {disfmarker} yeah , open . Read only . I hope I saved it . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So , um\nUser Interface: Sammy Benjo . I know this name uh .\nMarketing: yeah , this is my name . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Sounds uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} We met before .\n",
      "Marketing: So as you know , you {disfmarker} I think you already know me , Sammy Benjo . I am the expert in marketing and I want to tell you about what people uh s want and uh like and dislike in remote controls , and I hope this is going to help you to to design it correctly . So next please . Uh-oh . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm {vocalsound} uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it is put F_ five {gap} .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: The full page presentation , yep .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah maybe in the full page\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: F_ F_ five .\nMarketing: because i I spent lots of time doing this presentation , so .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yep .\nProject Manager: F_ five .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Uh-huh hmm okay .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: So basically uh what I suggest is that uh instead of deciding ourself what what could be and what should be a good uh remote control , let's ask people who are users of remote controls how they feel about w the current remote controls , what they like , what they don't like and um and what they do with them by the way {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: because they are supposed to be useful . {vocalsound} Don't forget about that . So we've we've conducted a a survey on on the use of uh remote controls and I'd like to show you some of the results we found on this survey . And next please . Yeah , so basically what we found was that uh there are several things that the user don't like in remote controls . First of all , they find it very ugly . {vocalsound} Current remote controls as you know they're the same as this one uh they're not nice colour , not nice shape , I mean they're all the same , and they're not l good looking . Um what is interesting is that in fact it seems that they were {disfmarker} people are ready to pay for nice and look {disfmarker} and fancy looking uh remote control , so I think we should probably spend lots of time in {disfmarker} and effort in that um . And the other thing is that uh the the current remote controls are not so easy to use and it it {disfmarker} the the current uh facilities that they offer do not match what people really want to use their remote controls . For instance uh we see that uh they zap very often so I think this is a very uh important uh functionality that it should be easy for them to to zap uh in one way or another . And most of the buttons uh on uh current remote controls are not used , so I think we should design something where some of the buttons which are those that are used should be easier to see and use than others that only a couple of people are using . Um next please . {vocalsound} Now {vocalsound} people are very frustrated w with their {vocalsound} remote controls\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: and they for instance uh they don't even find it {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: it's {vocalsound} it's often lost somewhere in the in the {disfmarker} in your home and nobody knows where it is .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Agree .\nMarketing: Maybe if we have something where we could {vocalsound} ask the remote control please , where are you ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Like uh something to to {disfmarker} like t I think phones . Some of the phones have some of this kind of s functionality . Uh of course phone you can always phone your phone\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: but {vocalsound} you can't phone your {vocalsound} your remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can {disfmarker} you are {gap} .\nProject Manager: Why not ? {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But why not ? Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: And because of the fact that there are so many buttons in these remote controls that nobody use ,\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nMarketing: in fact they don't even know how to use them , so most of the the people say they they don't know how to {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} to use properly their r remote controls . And uh they are bad for R_S_I_ but uh I don't remember what is R_S_I_ .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay uh tha that's look great .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} So I think they are bad . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} R_S_I_ mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Mm nobody has any idea about that ? Well I'll check uh with my\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it's electromagnetic waves or something kind of maybe uh effect .\nMarketing: Oh , okay ,\nUser Interface: No , I don't think so .\nMarketing: I think it's a technical thing\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah ,\nMarketing: which our {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: because infrared uses some electromagnetic technology ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: and those waves have high {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So , it seems that {vocalsound} it's a lot of people for a concept that we don't know {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: But twenty six percent , do you know {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Or something we don't know . {vocalsound} Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\n",
      "User Interface: Twenty five . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nMarketing: but we have to take this into account .\nUser Interface: Every fourth , you know . {vocalsound} Every four {disfmarker} some of us knows .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah it's {disfmarker} People really {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: So anyway\nUser Interface: One of us {disfmarker}\nMarketing: that's for what the biggest frustration uh of the user and um\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: what else do I have ? Next slide ? Ah yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So we've listed a couple of uh\nUser Interface: Functions .\nMarketing: s uh functions that may be uh used by u the user in the current uh available uh remote controls and uh well the tables look very nice to read but what is important is to understand that the power button is not used often because in general you {vocalsound} use it only once per session , but it is very relevant . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: People want to have a power button . Channel selection is uh o often used {disfmarker} very often used and indeed uh very relevant .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Ah {vocalsound} now I remember what is R_S_I_ {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: it's repetitivity stress injury . {vocalsound} We have to be careful with that word but {vocalsound} uh anyway\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nMarketing: I continue my presentation so {disfmarker} yeah ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: channel selection is um very important , very often used . Volume is not often used but people uh want to have control on volume and that makes sense of course . And n then you have things which are very much less often used like the settings . Audio settings , screen settings , even teletext and channel settings . All of them . they're not often used and they are s more or less relevant . It seems that people find teletext teletext uh relevant , even if I personally never use it but seems that it's average relevant at least , so .\n",
      "Project Manager: I have been told that we uh don't consider teletext , that it's out of date now because of internet .\nMarketing: I can tell you that uh in a l in a scale between one and ten relevant uh not relevant to relevant people scored a six on this , which is not as uh these these two one were {disfmarker} had I think ten I think .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: But but if you compare with these ones , uh I think they scored a one or two .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: Not very relevant , so if if there are good reason not to put teletext it's okay but just know that people find it somehow relevant .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: That's for the main functions I think and uh then we can ask uh ourself uh what people don't have that may be useful . For instance I think {disfmarker} net next slide . {vocalsound} One of the thing {disfmarker} the trend uh that uh you are probably aware of is the possibility {disfmarker} the eventual possibility of having speech recognition in your remote control , so you wouldn't have to tap tap in your buttons but just tell your remote control or whatever you need you have what you want . So we've conducted a survey about uh whether people would like or not to have uh this kind of uh functionality in their remote control and as we can see it really depends on the age . Young people , probably because it's a buzz word , find it very relevant . And uh as the age goes up {vocalsound} the {vocalsound} the relevance goes down .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So now it really depends on the kind of uh targeting uh wha who are we targeting with this remote control ?\nIndustrial Designer: 'Cause {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I think if we are targeting young people then uh it's probably something we have to consider . If we are targeting you very old people this is something they really don't know why they {disfmarker} this should be so now\nProject Manager: Mm-mm . Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: this is of course , depends on that . And um I don't have any conclusion , I didn't have time the meeting was very tight , so that's basically my findings . And uh , if you have any question ?\nProject Manager: Mm I think it's good , okay . You done a good review .\nUser Interface: I got one question ,\nMarketing: I can go back .\nIndustrial Designer: Thank you .\nMarketing: Yeah one question ,\nUser Interface: uh you are a Market Expert\nMarketing: yeah ?\nUser Interface: so\nMarketing: I am . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: should we aim at the young people or not ?\n",
      "Marketing: I think we should aim at the young people . But uh I think they are {disfmarker} they are those uh who might be more interested in a in a new device .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: In general the the early adopters of a new device are young people , less than {disfmarker} more than {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay , then teletext is used less .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Then teletext is useless for them I think ,\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: yeah . Because they they have other means of finding their information . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm mm mm . Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: That's good point .\nMarketing: But {disfmarker} yeah . Nope .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , yep .\nUser Interface: Mm . Okay .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: 'Kay ?\nIndustrial Designer: Thank you .\nProject Manager: So um now I think it's the turn of the the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I'm not sure um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Of the technical function , so {vocalsound} uh\n",
      "Marketing: So I think it's you , huh ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh it's\nMarketing: No ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} That's me .\nProject Manager: what effect {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: techni function of {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , user requiremen\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay . Wait a second .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Argh .\nIndustrial Designer: I have to do working design so uh\nProject Manager: So you're {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: That's {disfmarker} but this but number three , yes . Mm-hmm . So , my name is Mark Dwight , and um I am responsible for User Interface Design .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: However , uh mm Project Manager asked me to give you some presentation about technical functions design . Uh , as I'm a more an artist\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: that's gonna be less technical functions but more User Interface and current intentions and everything which is linked with this .\nProject Manager: Okay . Let's go .\n",
      "User Interface: So next slide please . And uh a general method which is {disfmarker} seems to be very useful for our task\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: is not to forget about uh Occam razor . We should never complicate things too much . We should only make a remote control , nothing more . Nothing more than this , just a remote control .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: 'Cause current remote controls they are never easy enough to use .\nMarketing: Makes sense . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: So , make a click , please . So here is this remote control .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's quite a standard one , but it's not from a T_V_ , it's from a much easier device like air conditioning or something . But you know , we can use it for a T_V_ easily . Only buttons we need is on off , volume , channels and maybe some options or something else , and please make a click , compared to this one\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} It's {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: which one would you prefer ? I guess this .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: I would say the simplest one as long as there are the uh {disfmarker} I find the buttons that I need every time I need a button .\nUser Interface: Sure , sure .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe it can be yeah middle of {disfmarker} like , between those two\nUser Interface: Yeah , and our method is going to be , provide simple\nIndustrial Designer: li\nProject Manager: Oh sorry . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: simple desires into simple actions .\n",
      "Marketing: Nice . Nice sentence .\nUser Interface: Findings .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Oh sorry .\nUser Interface: Our question of the style , we should remember that our company\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: puts fashion into electronics and we should never forget about it .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Concept .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} S you should {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Be simple . Be simple and you'll lean on this market .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Market is a {disfmarker} of remote controls {disfmarker} you know it better ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: it's very well , it's it's not an easy field to to play , you know ? So be simple .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: For personal preferences I think that to make a baby-proof remote control it got to be a titanium .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: It's a really good style , it going to be {disfmarker} look like like this . It is unbreakable and it is very universal . W we'll have a screen with a back light which can change colours ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: and we can put all the options into this screen . We'll need only few buttons . All the other things can be controlled through the screen . And all these buttons should be easy to find and to click , 'cause when you watch a movie and you want to change something , you always try to find a good button and click it , but you should do it by touching it and finding it easily just by touch . So {disfmarker} Press {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {gap}\nUser Interface: I would propose this concept for design , just few buttons , a screen with a back light which can change colours , titanium\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: I think , and uh what else ? I got just very few and good ideas . We need power and volume . And let us include two nice features into this device , first , power on and off can be made fully automatic . When you go to the sofa , take your control and point it to the T_V_ ,\nProject Manager: It's off .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: It's on .\nUser Interface: the T_V_ turns on .\nMarketing: And when does it turn off ?\nUser Interface: When you don't touch the control but you go out of the {disfmarker} For for enough time\nMarketing: Oh so you have a\n",
      "User Interface: like uh you {disfmarker}\nMarketing: sensing {disfmarker} sensor machine that uh knows {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's a question to our technical design , our {vocalsound} two engineers .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Tech {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: And another nice feature that I would like to implement is uh volume control . Suppose you set u you set up some volume and then you move out or you move to the other corner of the room and take your control with you . Like , you want to to change the chair or you want to move to the armchair from the sofa or something , and then the volume changes .\nProject Manager: Or you want to go to the kitchen . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: It's easy to do ,\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: you just control the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: According to your distance to {disfmarker} and the angle maybe , if you have a stereo system .\nIndustrial Designer: Distance .\nUser Interface: According to the distance . {gap} Yeah yeah yeah . So {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh I'm not sure about the screen , wha what is the use usefulness of the screen ? Uh is it a touch screen by the way ?\nUser Interface: I think it can be just a menu which can be controlled with a left , right , up , down and enter .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: So it gives instructions but uh it has to be with an back light somehow . {gap}\n",
      "User Interface: So , its main purpose in fact is a back light ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: which change colours ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: which makes it easier to find , and each can {disfmarker} it can respond for your voice , like it can turn on the light for you just to f find it easily , yeah ?\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: So basically that's it .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um I see that you target uh several s application not only T_V_ but i like we talk about um universal uh remote control .\nUser Interface: Can be easily done ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: 'cause you got simple designs , y we should put it to simple actions .\nProject Manager: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Let it be universal , so you want to use it for your hi-fi system . You want to change tracks and you want to adjust volume .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Just few actions , a few actions for everything .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Hmm . S\nUser Interface: All the rest , we sh we'll put it into this menu on the screen .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm . Since we were targeting a really soon uh uh date for the the the um i issuing of this uh remote control I think we will only concentrate on T_V_ for the moment and then maybe m make it more generalised {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Yeah and it {disfmarker} mm .\nUser Interface: Okay , but it's quite universal you know .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: We can just extend it to any device .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: So for instance if I want to go to {disfmarker} directly to channel twenty five , how would I do {disfmarker} can I do that with this ?\nUser Interface: Uh twenty five .\nMarketing: Yeah mm let's say I am uh on channel eight now . You know these days we have hundreds of channels ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: that's not so easy to go just next next next when you have hundreds of channels .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} In fact I would propose another solution .\nMarketing: Or is it ?\nUser Interface: Basically you use just four or five channels , right ?\n",
      "Marketing: Most people {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: yeah .\nUser Interface: So uh set up your T_V_ set like channels that you use they're one , two , three and five , and you will never have to go to a twenty fives channel .\nMarketing: In fact in in one uh remote control that I've seen , instead of doing that d you could just say these are the cha ch channel three , twenty eight , forty eight and uh sixty four are those that I want to by cycled with my next button .\nProject Manager: Yeah it's it's the same solution , I think . Hmm .\nMarketing: I uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: B yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: But even we can have some uh L_C_D_ display , like you can uh de you can just button the number\nMarketing: Go to channel twenty five .\nIndustrial Designer: and then it go\nMarketing: One thing is that as I said in my presentation people really do like to z zap .\nIndustrial Designer: t because {disfmarker} Yeah .\nMarketing: So even if they are only watching four or five channels , I think they want to zap out of the one hundred channels ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: But still {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: just because this is one kind of thing they do , zapping .\nProject Manager: Yeah uh on zap it's only next next next next next , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: And it's only next .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah\nUser Interface: Mm . We got these buttons here . Next next .\nMarketing: so {disfmarker} but you have to {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah. .\nUser Interface: Or say this can be back .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . But otherwise like we can put some display on numbers and then they can just press {disfmarker} suppose two five they just press two and five\nMarketing: So it would be {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and then {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Maybe we can make uh different modes for each button\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: and you can change mode {disfmarker} zapping mode or\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm . Alright .\nProject Manager: uh current chan\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . Yeah but since we are focusing only on T_V_ remote controls\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Listening more .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so we can have more functions for T_V_\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: uh if you want to go for a universal then we ought to limit for functions for each of our devices .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: Could we carry out some research if we w really need this , like how many people really need to go to channel number twenty five and then to sixty four ?\n",
      "Marketing: Well I could could uh have a look at that {vocalsound} maybe .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I'll check in my department if there's someone specialist in that . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Although I don't know . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Alright ? Thanks for your attention .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh you're finish ? Okay . So now {vocalsound} the technical aspects of this new device . Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Two . Yeah , if {disfmarker} {gap} Sorry .\nProject Manager: You prefer it {gap} . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . Uh as you know , I am mister Ramaro . I am an expert in uh industrial design of all electronic devices and I previously devised many uh {disfmarker} like digital calculators and electronic calculators . {vocalsound} So now I'll briefly describe the working design of our remote control . Well , as you know the basic function of remote control is sending some message to the the device , like T_V_ or V_C_R_ or D_V_D_ player etcetera . So we will have a p portable device which will send message to the the main device like T_V_ . So we need to have some energy source to do what {disfmarker} to do the functions , what we want on this portable device . {vocalsound} And usually this {disfmarker} so to do these functions we need an interface , which basically some kind of pressing buttons or keys or like moving jack or something like that . And then these messages {disfmarker} these key buttons can be transferred into some kind of message and then it will process by the chip and then it will generate some information to the main device . It's generally in the form of infrared or some kind of s sensor information . Then we will have the main control in the main device to do the particular action what we want . So , basically we need uh since we are focusing on our interface device {gap} remote control mainly the energy source like the battery and then we have user interface like uh the keypad and you know buttons we want , and then we have some chip , it's mainly digital signal processing chip because since we are {disfmarker} I am one doing mostly digital uh devices we ought to have some kind of processor which take care of all these functions and put it in some digital format . And then we'll have the infrared L_E_D_ source which sends the information to the main device . Then we'll have switch in our main uh um device to do particular operations , and we ought to do different codes for different T_V_s ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: so some T_V_s will have different encryption codes for doing s s uh channel changing and these things .\nProject Manager: Okay . To make it quite uh an universal uh device uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah , because the people don't use one particular brand so\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: or at least we have more more than five brands , which are really good .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: So we need to check their specifications and do their uh encryption that's passing information to the T_V_ device . So we need to have particular encryption codes .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Then , components , so we have the main uh energy source and then we will have some buttons and then we will have infrared uh source and then we have some inside some chip in in the device . Uh since I don't have much time so I'll input the connections to all this components . And since I also want to know feedback from our Marketing Expert and User Interface ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: so if you want to add some more components we can incorporate them .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . And from from the discussion we had do you {disfmarker} can you make it on the whiteboard , or {disfmarker} mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah , I'm sure , because since our User Interface {gap} speech recognition and also Marketing Expert for the speech recognition is really handy ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: so\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: we can have another , like uh s simple speech recogniser on our D_S_B_ chip .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Since we have some kind of uh energy this is our this normal battery , so this battery , once you s switch on it will take power and we can have some speech recognition and in our g generally small digital signal processing chip so that and we will put uh the small uh simple speech recogniser\nProject Manager: On {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and we can also train the speech recogniser for particular user so you just {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh train it , okay . Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah , so that we just use simple recog\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} Too complex .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: no but but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: But uh very very good to sell . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . No , even in {disfmarker} you can find even simple mobile device like any mobile brand you can have these voice dialers or these things , yeah .\nMarketing: Think of a all these young people who would love to say that this remote control only works for them ,\nUser Interface: Okay . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: and ha ha you cannot use my remote control ,\nProject Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: because it's targeted to me . Whatever . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: And what about the price of this component ?\nIndustrial Designer: So {disfmarker} Uh maybe we can make uh it in five Euros and even less than that ,\nProject Manager: It mm {disfmarker} okay .\nMarketing: Hmm . Cheap .\nIndustrial Designer: because we want to have uh millions and in bulk ,\nMarketing: Millions . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: so we can make really simp\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: and we want to make really simple device\nMarketing: Cheap .\nIndustrial Designer: because we have only very few words like like power , switch on or some like\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: then we'll have something like this um we'll have volume and then we will have s particular channel , so users can listen .\nMarketing: The user uh will just be able to say uh please can you uh pump up the vo pump up the volume\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: or or it will be something like volume , up , down .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Ye No , yeah , a user can use any kind of sender but they should have this prompt {gap} volume and then {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: With a keywords and {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah volume and decrease or increase , so we try to only recognise those words\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm mm .\nIndustrial Designer: and and because we can't really say user to say same wording\nMarketing: Couple of words .\nIndustrial Designer: then it become more mechanical and {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Um .\nIndustrial Designer: And then we can have channel they can say , okay I want eight , because we don't know like users have different programmes , I mean they don't really follow same channels strict uh so we just want channel number ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay . {gap} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: we don't want like B_B_C_ or C_N_N_ or something else\nMarketing: Of course uh it has to be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: because it will be complicated so we'll have only these three uh main basic uh anyway volume is not really speech recognition problem ,\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: it's it it will be take care of our main {disfmarker} mm .\nUser Interface: No you know it's a conceptual question , 'cause now I see th this {disfmarker} the picture in front of my eyes like a user taking his remote control and shouting into it , volume up , volume up ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} But then I think you you {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: and and he's coming {disfmarker} you know , he's really annoyed with this , down , up , down . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: First of all I I think this is not uh functionality that it is going to be instead of using the buttons .\nProject Manager: No , in no not only speech , yeah .\nMarketing: It's on top of using the button .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I it's an option .\nUser Interface: Okay , for this budget like twelve Euros .\nMarketing: Well , I dunno . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah actually we we can have one switch to like uh switch on , on and off , this {gap} processor and {disfmarker} This really {gap} , suppose like here we have our main chip which controls power , volume and this part and this D_S_P_s .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Again , this to have some interaction like suppose people use D_S_P_ then it particularly sends some information to the chip like in some form , like volume and {gap} like this key .\nUser Interface: Okay. .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: So it may not be like very expensive , because since we are only focusing on T_V_ remote control\nMarketing: T_V_ .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: so {disfmarker} and we have only few things here {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Sho to to train , okay .\nUser Interface: Did you consider the r gest uh gesture recognition ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Like , if I want to put volume up I like do {disfmarker} mm I take my remote control do like {disfmarker} something like\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: roll 'em up\nIndustrial Designer: Um uh uh this point we didn't consider\nUser Interface: or roll 'em down .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Very expensive ,\nIndustrial Designer: because it's it's very expensive\nMarketing: no ?\nIndustrial Designer: because v our target is only like twelve point five Euros\nProject Manager: And well , what about the idea of automatic on off on the button , yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm why ?\nIndustrial Designer: and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That's just {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah ,\n",
      "Marketing: And volume control .\nIndustrial Designer: even automatic on off is also a bit problematic , because it {disfmarker} different criteria for different people like so suppose people are really uh they just uh they don't touch the remote and mm y you don't know how much time you need to switch on or switch off\nMarketing: So but uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Sh should we target a a user personalised uh uh remote control ? So in in a given room there might be more than one remote control . We would uh have each one and uh with our own personal uh settings .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yay yeah . Yeah that can be possible , especially for power settings , so user can say okay , suppose they're watching a tennis match or something then they can say okay uh after one hour I {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: Wouldn't that make uh {vocalsound} arguments ?\nIndustrial Designer: They can make {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , of course .\nProject Manager: I want uh {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah we can have {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} That's no problem , we will sell more . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} And we can increase this {vocalsound} the strength\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} We got a really good Market Expert .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah exactly .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} y you can buy one with {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Let's send more , let's sell more .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay . You have mm something else to say ? Uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , not very much ,\nProject Manager: No .\nIndustrial Designer: like {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: Okay . Thanks .\nProject Manager: Okay , thanks .\nIndustrial Designer: Thank you . Yep . Thank you .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So\nIndustrial Designer: Can you just {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: mm\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nProject Manager: mm I think , okay , we're just on time . Um mm mm . So , we're now going to l have the lunch break .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm great . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Then we will work again for thirty minutes individual work , and um {vocalsound} we will uh meet again for the next meeting , and uh in this one want to to be more focused on the individual actions the um {disfmarker} on the components so {vocalsound} uh you will focus on the component concept um\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: uh of course the U_I_D_ Mark will be uh focused on the user interface concept\nIndustrial Designer: Mark will {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: and uh our m Market Expert Sammy Benjo uh on the trend watching . So {vocalsound} um of course like before specific instruction will be sent to you by your personal personal coach . Well I think that's all . And we have um maybe we have to {disfmarker} we say , only for T_V_ , not teletext ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh I think automatic on off control uh it's not possible .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh it's in current price , yeah .\nMarketing: Difficult .\nProject Manager: Yeah , maybe in the next uh step if we make it work um .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah . But speech recogniser can be possible .\nProject Manager: Yeah , implemented . O okay , we can think about that .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And um do you see something else ?\nMarketing: No .\nUser Interface: Uh , should it be equipped with the uh , with uh speakers ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Speakers in the remote cont\nUser Interface: Like , you want to find it , you shout\nMarketing: Oh yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh yeah\nUser Interface: control ,\nProject Manager: that's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: and it answers is I'm here ? Or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: It just beeps .\nUser Interface: Just beeps ?\nMarketing: That would be enough .\nProject Manager: Or maybe you want to phone him .\nMarketing: Something very cheap .\nProject Manager: Since now all {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah .\nMarketing: But that's ex that's expensive . Uh .\nProject Manager: yeah ? Think\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , especially the power , it really consumes\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nIndustrial Designer: because it should be all the time on and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Well I I heard of devices where you just uh whistle them and and they {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And it's answered .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: because of the the frequency they they just answer to that .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: I can't whistle . No , no , I can't .\nMarketing: You can't whistle . Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Or a clap . You can clap . Can you ?\nProject Manager: Clap clap clap it's a good {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Clap is good .\n",
      "Project Manager: I I think it's universal .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Tak\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} What about people without hand ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Just a {vocalsound} suggestion .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah I think it's good .\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} With only one hand ? {vocalsound} {vocalsound} These are not our target people . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm uh okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But it's a good feature I guess yeah we need to think about more how to incorporate it .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . Okay .\nUser Interface: Just don't interfere with other devices like 'cause like all these people do that their lights are turning on with clapping .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nMarketing: Oh that's e that already exists\nUser Interface: Yeah , I got it at my home , like {gap} {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: okay okay .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Oh yeah , you do have .\nUser Interface: Oops .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Ah it's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Wow . You're trendy . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm , so {vocalsound} let's to think s so that {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Think about it .\nProject Manager: yeah . I think that could be in the component uh concept uh .\nMarketing: Yeah , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: It {disfmarker} yes . {vocalsound} Okay .\nMarketing: Okay . Good\nProject Manager: So ,\nMarketing: we're done ?\nProject Manager: yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 9918,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 36,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "In this meeting, the team was very satisfied with the three prototypes presented. However, they had to take the budget limits into consideration. Their current cost per remote control was fourteen point six Euros, while the budget required them to cut two more Euros. Therefore, a series of changes were done in order to meet the criteria, such as making the remotes flattened. In the end, the team was asked to make an evaluation about the project. All of them were very satisfied with the final product.",
    "docs": [
      "User Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , almost there .\nProject Manager: Okay . We'll sta I'll use the PowerPoint , I guess . How was that , was that fun ?\nUser Interface: Mm . Very fun .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay . Uh oh I've forgotten to mail you the minutes , but I will do .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Upsidaisy . {vocalsound} Um {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um we {disfmarker}\nMarketing: E excuse me I forgot my\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: copy . {gap}\nProject Manager: Alright , okay , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: He's gonna get his pen .\nUser Interface: Oh right . Okay .\nProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} Will you guys first with your prototype um before we get to the good news ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , there's good news ?\nProject Manager: Uh {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: we have budget problems .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh . Cutbacks .\nProject Manager: I'm afraid you're all sacked . Oops .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I don't even have this on . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay , have you got a presentation to make ?\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: No , not mine yet .\nProject Manager: No . Okay\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nProject Manager: so it's just your your show .\nIndustrial Designer: Um maybe we should bring {gap} so that the camera can see {gap} . Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay . Sure .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: We made three for you .\nProject Manager: Three ? Oh .\nUser Interface: Um one's based on the banana , one's based on the tomato\nProject Manager: Tomato ? What tomato ? {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: and the other one is st\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I don't recall a tomato . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Look . Oh yeah , well yeah , we had v some red left over .\nProject Manager: Ah I see , okay . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: So . Okay , so this is the um non to non uh no buttons one , or as mm few buttons as possible ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: mainly speak recognition . The yellow there is the um\nProject Manager: Logo .\nUser Interface: the slogan , yeah ,\nProject Manager: Okay , brilliant .\nUser Interface: that we need to incorporate , it's very simple . If you do need buttons , you can flip it over , and there's some there ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: um but mainly it's speech recognition .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , so the buttons would be like , you know individual users , or {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah and {vocalsound} yeah they might project things onto the screen which you can do on there .\nProject Manager: Alright , okay .\nUser Interface: Mm I'm not sure about that . Um and this one is the one w more like the one w that we looked at earlier .\nProject Manager: Right .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , you guys can have a look at that if you want .\nProject Manager: That's groovy . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {gap}\nMarketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} Uh can I have {gap}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Well I like the feel of it , I like the feel of it .\nUser Interface: Yeah , sure . Um that one is {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh sorry s {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh no , it's delicate .\nProject Manager: At Oh dear .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That's that's already got its stand that one . That's it stand .\nProject Manager: Alright , okay .\n",
      "User Interface: It does also lie flat , but that's the that yellow stand there represents the the charging stand .\nProject Manager: Okay , brilliant mm .\nUser Interface: Um the black on the back is the slogan .\nProject Manager: Okay , nice and obvious there {vocalsound} ,\nUser Interface: Uh yeah , that {gap} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well , we did think of that .\nProject Manager: if it's standing up , I guess , yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , if it's standing up it's it's on there , but also we're gonna have the company name on the front , which is the little black kind of line in the middle .\nProject Manager: Oh right , okay , brilliant . Like that from its centre .\nUser Interface: So um and that's the um transmit the L_E_D_ thing . These are the s two scroll ones which we thought could be channel up and down and volume up and down . We n were weren't sure about putting them there , because um i it's it kind of could get bashed .\n",
      "Project Manager: Where you're , yeah , uh were you're holding it kind of {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . Well , if you hold it , you can {disfmarker} you all can hold it , is {disfmarker} it does actually feel quite ergonomic ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: if you've got small hands .\nProject Manager: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Um , obviously I don't think that's real sized {gap} .\nProject Manager: Yeah , okay .\n",
      "User Interface: It would have to be a bit bigger .\nProject Manager: Yeah , scale model , yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay . Um that's a speaker at the top , so you can speak into it like a little walkie-talkie as well for speak recognition .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Um and {vocalsound} um then the buttons . Yeah kind of self-explanatory , just buttons whenever you need them . Tried to keep it simple . Oh that's the charging base prongs at the bottom .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Alright , excellent .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} We used those {gap} . And um then the big red button in the middle is the on and off one .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: It's not in the traditional place ,\nProject Manager: No .\nUser Interface: but um it's quite an obvious place .\nProject Manager: It's out of the way as well , I suppose , so . Excellent .\nUser Interface: So {vocalsound} there we go and and um we have the banana-based one too .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: Yep . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: This one is uh , I suppose for the younger audiences .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: A a more friendly type of {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay , {vocalsound} so so Barney the banana {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Right , right . It's to uh induce more television watching I suppose or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Ah excellent , just what we need .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Say it for the camera .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Lo Sort of Loch Ness banana . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Right , right .\nProject Manager: Cool {gap} yeah . Well , nice to have uh options at least .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: 'Kay and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} So are there any um improvements or issues or {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It won't stand .\nProject Manager: Oh there are issues , oh there are issues .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Just let it lie down , it wont stand . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um main problem that we have unfortunately being finance .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh .\nProject Manager: Uh , let's just enter in the um evaluation criteria .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} unfortunately the unit we are currently going to produce minus the extra scroll buttons , uh it's gonna cost us fourteen point six Euros .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: Oh .\nProject Manager: So we have to\n",
      "Industrial Designer: What's on the uh on the left ? {gap}\nProject Manager: rea Sorry , I've accidentally highlighted somehow {disfmarker} Um . {vocalsound} There we go .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: Oh god , why is it doing that ?\nUser Interface: Ooh .\nProject Manager: There we go . {vocalsound} So basically , um in order to save our two Euros um I was thinking that we could have essentially the same shape , but just have it flattened .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Um .\nUser Interface: More like a traditional remote control .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , I mean it's already got a kind of cool shape , so but it wouldn't have to be curved sort of in and out .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: And by doing so {disfmarker} Oh no , hold on . Doesn't save us quite as much . I don't know what's going on with this again .\nIndustrial Designer: W why is the uh double curved two of them ?\nProject Manager: Oh , good point .\nMarketing: And double curve on both sides ?\nProject Manager: Um .\nMarketing: Curve {vocalsound} . Yeah , this is double-curve ,\n",
      "Project Manager: That's {vocalsound} sort of curve in and out .\nMarketing: no ?\nIndustrial Designer: Is i\nMarketing: This is double-curve . It {disfmarker} This one is single curve .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: 'Cause this is single curve , this is curved on both sides . So double-curve .\nProject Manager: No , I think it means double curved as in um\nUser Interface: Like an S_ shape .\nProject Manager: like uh {gap} a single curve on that bottom half , and the double curved would be if it was that similar curve upward .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , I might be wrong though .\nMarketing: Like this , one curve on this side , one curve on that side .\nProject Manager: I don't think that counts as a curve , I think that's just a shape .\nMarketing: Hmm . Hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: A curvature is like the {disfmarker} this case .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Maybe .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} 'Cause that's the uh the biggest expense there , right .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} got two of them {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , and why why I've got it two , I don't know , I can't seem to select any more however .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . Well we can work around that um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Right . No .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Cut things out . But you think it should be one .\nProject Manager: It's meant to be one , yeah , I don't know why I put two in there ,\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: but um {disfmarker} Hold on till I find it , I think this shift button might be stuck again . No maybe the shift button's stuck in .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um okay , so that would take away three , which would give us {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Should {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Oh that's fine .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , so we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Eleven uh eleven Euros sixty .\nUser Interface: Cool . Cool .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: So we could even add something .\nProject Manager: We cou Oh not quite , have the scroll-wheel , unfortunately .\nIndustrial Designer: We should fire the accountants .\nProject Manager: What ?\nIndustrial Designer: Fire the accountants . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Ah yeah , we could add things .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe if you click back in that bottom right cell , where you're starting from , and then use the arrow keys .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Does that work ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , I know , that just extends it as well .\nIndustrial Designer: No mm {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: Uh you can do one thing {gap} .\nProject Manager: I don't know .\nMarketing: You just select one box outsi yeah , this box . Then move it with the help of this {disfmarker} Okay .\nProject Manager: It {disfmarker} One of the buttons is sticking , I don't know {gap} .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Just uh just uh {disfmarker} Okay , just a minute . Okay . No input , like this . {vocalsound} Shift . No it's not .\nProject Manager: No , it's 'cause the uh the shift button's stuck , or something .\nMarketing: Yeah , it's not working .\nIndustrial Designer: Is it the other shift button maybe ?\nMarketing: Should we ask Meli\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Should we ask our technical expert Melissa ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No that's fine . Um we've worked out what it would be anyway .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Did you try both shift buttons ? It could be the other side .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Cancel . Piss off .\nIndustrial Designer: That's too bad .\nProject Manager: Oh well , never mind . Um {vocalsound} . Right , so that's finances and I dunno what we {disfmarker} what could we reckon we could add ? Um\nUser Interface: Well maybe we could add something , but maybe if {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Well I suppose that's our that's that's our design that we've got . So {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: What do you th We're trying to save money , so . Yeah , if we're happy with the design there's no point in spending money , if we don't have to .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: But if there is anything you think we've missed out there , then , you know , feel free to add it . Maybe {disfmarker} I mean obviously it would be bigger so there might be more space for the the slogan on the front ,\nProject Manager: Yeah yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: because it's not in an ideal place right now .\nProject Manager: Well that's that's uh {disfmarker} Okay , so project evaluation . We have under twelve {vocalsound} Euros fifty . Project process , how do we think that went ? Are we happy ?\nIndustrial Designer: Oh .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah I think we have a a winning product .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} Evaluation . Oh we've been writing this up for m months .\nUser Interface: I think it went quite smoothly .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh room for creativity , were we happy with that ?\nUser Interface: W I think we were very creative .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: No , I mea I think it means sort of individually .\nUser Interface: Oh right , okay .\nProject Manager: Yes , no , maybe ?\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Okay . Groovy . So uh we're just gonna . Uh yeah , okay . Teamwork ? Leadership , sorry .\nIndustrial Designer: Great leadership . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Excellent leadership . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Thank you very much . You're all get you're all getting a raise . Uh teamwork . I thought went well .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , everyone got enough input , I think .\nProject Manager: Uh and well means , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , we {gap} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: The technical stuff was brilliant .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Let's buy more .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh Right . Um\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} These pens are are neat though .\nProject Manager: I don't know what , new ideas found , means , to be honest .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , these are new ideas , like glow-in-the-dark or something like that . We discussed all the new ideas , but of course we couldn't reach any proper goals , we couldn't use these {gap} , but we h we are using these scroll buttons like this . These are new ideas we And new shapes , everything\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: . At le {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay . Groovy .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So just general thumbs up for all of us then .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: That kind of unfortunately is too quick .\nMarketing: Hmm .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Well um .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh {vocalsound} . I suppose yeah . Um .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh so let's talk about our bonuses and the raises we're getting for this , right . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} That's it , um I think another couple of days holiday pay might be well in order for all of you .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Right , right .\nProject Manager: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Let's see if I can get this bloody thing to work .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh maybe we should start cleaning up the clay .\n",
      "Project Manager: Whoops . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , maybe .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Does it go back in , does it ? Reusable .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nUser Interface: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Something we should get {gap} .\nProject Manager: I don't know what this is but it's really really annoying .\nMarketing: So {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Uh Brian , have you have you finished ?\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nMarketing: Uh mine needs also this .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um I have , yes .\nMarketing: At last mine is also the presentation .\nProject Manager: Huh ? Oh right , okay , you've got more , okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Oh , you got a presentation ,\nProject Manager: Sorry uh .\nUser Interface: sorry .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh ok\nProject Manager: It didn't bother to tell me that on this\nMarketing: S\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: thing . Is it ? Okay .\nMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} is the project evaluated , that is mine .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Doesn't tell me . {vocalsound} Oh you're doing that . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: We evaluated ourselves , we thought we were great . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nUser Interface: Mm , love to eat that now .\nIndustrial Designer: Anybody {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Kind of a green banana now .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Clay covered banana .\n",
      "User Interface: It's {disfmarker} this as well , sorry , we forgot to mention it'll be made out of kind of a rubbery latex , new material that we've got .\nProject Manager: O okay , hold on .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} I've got .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} blue .\nUser Interface: {gap}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I wonder w which cell do I want . {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: It's fun to touch .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , I didn't realise you had that bit . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So .\nUser Interface: Oh could you pass the tomato please .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Sorry . Thank you .\nMarketing: So now is the final evaluation , final evaluation of the uh uh of our product . How we are going to {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: means uh at what standard what standard {disfmarker} whether it meets our standards or not . How mu What rating we will give to these products . So of course this is {disfmarker} will be a team work , w we together have to decide wha what rating we will give to this product and everything . So what methodology I will tell you on what basis we are going to discuss all this .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: We will give the rating to this product based on the user requirements , whether it meets the user requirements or not , this product . Then trends , whether it is as {gap} fashion trends or not ? Means {vocalsound} because we have already stated that people do prefer fashionable things nowadays .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So this is also an important factor for our evaluation also . Then marketing strategy of the company . As we have already discussed that our company is quite {gap} in the market , not only in terms of providing quality products , not only in pro providing latest technologies , but also in terms of providing environmental s\n",
      "User Interface: Sorry {gap} . Sorry ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: carry on . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So {vocalsound} but also in terms of providing environmental safe products , uh yeah like uh keeping uh keeping in mind all the safety issues . So {disfmarker} Now comes the criteria rating with seven point scale . I'm having this scale this scale ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: so we have to do it on a board .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nMarketing: {gap} the user requirem I think .\nProject Manager: Alright , okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: The board working again , is it ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Do we have the uh the marker for the board ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {gap}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh .\nUser Interface: Um .\nIndustrial Designer: There it is .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Thank you .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {gap}\nMarketing: So .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So these are the three crite criterias for our evaluation of our product . First of all uh comes user requirement .\n",
      "User Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So we will see whether this product meets all user requirements or not . I I will {disfmarker} first I would like to have your views , what do you think whether it meets all user requirements or not ?\nUser Interface: Um {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} Yeah , it did .\nMarketing: S\nUser Interface: It had all the basic buttons that they needed as well as the uh new technology that people said they wanted .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Um so .\nProject Manager: When the user requirement is essentially just to operate the T_V_ ,\nUser Interface: Does it work ?\n",
      "Project Manager: so yeah ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . So .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} So what do you think you will personally give .\nProject Manager: of course we haven't actually got a working model yet .\nUser Interface: I would say seven .\nMarketing: Seven . Uh .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Seven is good , yeah , isn't it ? I can't {disfmarker} True or false ? No sorry tr one is true .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: One , yeah .\nMarketing: Uh one is {disfmarker} means highest ranking , okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: But I think highest ranking is seven , or one ?\nProject Manager: No it's it's like true is one end , and false is the oth\nIndustrial Designer: No that's false .\nMarketing: Okay , right right . So it's one for from your point of view .\nUser Interface: Okay , so one .\nMarketing: And what do you say our Industrial Expert ?\nUser Interface: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh . It's hard to know . I I give it a two . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh d you can you can tell on on the like {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I think she has given her views on the basis of design , because she was our i Interface Expert .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: But you can give your views based on technology , whether the technology meets the requirements of the customers or not ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um yeah , I think i it might even exceed it um . But I guess there is a kind of a shortage of buttons .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Um {gap} I'm gonna give it a two .\nMarketing: Two .\nIndustrial Designer: Two .\nMarketing: And what about uh you , Brian ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh , I'll go for a one . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: You will go for one .\nProject Manager: Basic requirements but of the pro of the project .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay . Uh for me personally it is everything fine , it may be having good design , it may be uh meeting all the requirements of the customers like technology-wise , price-wise , but there is one thing which limits the customers , like we are having only two , three designs , like we are having one banana design and the other one is orange ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah th {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: and\nUser Interface: Mm {vocalsound} yellow .\nMarketing: {disfmarker} Uh yeah , lower end . And the third one is what you ge uh that is not a f fruit look .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But if a person doesn't like banana , or orange , you are limiting him .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh .\nProject Manager: Come on that was the tha {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: No , don't buy our product , because we are l we like this only .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh .\nMarketing: So we are showing our preference for particular fruits ,\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Being fruitist . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: two or three kinds rather , and {disfmarker} Yeah . {vocalsound} So .\nUser Interface: Is that no is that not trends ?\n",
      "Marketing: Uh no , uh personally as a Marketing Expert I don't believe that ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: because whatever companies {disfmarker} they launch their products in the shape of fruits , they give a range of products , a range of shapes , like if we see , look at the smallest thing , toffee chocolates , they give a variety of different things .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Some children like to buy banana shape , some apple shape , some even pineapple shape , some orange shape .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: So you can {gap} {disfmarker} what shape a person will like .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So in this case giving only one or two choices we are lim limiting our customers . And by limiting them , we are limiting our sales , limiting our profit also .\nUser Interface: Uh-huh . But in electronics , I think , it's not q always quite so um {disfmarker} you don't always have so many choices as with chocolates .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: I think , you know , if you're going to buy a T_V_ maybe a company'll have {disfmarker} That you're going to choose from , a company'll have two or three choices , but they're different designs . We were coming up with one product .\nMarketing: Uh maybe . Okay but I will I will personally {disfmarker} won't give it {gap} beyond three .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: No , I mean uh {vocalsound} obviously your opinion ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I'm just trying to {disfmarker} Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: So we can {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} He's a tough cookie .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah , on an average we can think three , four sevenths , maybe . Three or four ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh , no sorry ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: it should be {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Six . Five or six .\nUser Interface: What are we doing ?\nIndustrial Designer: What are we doing ?\nMarketing: No sorry , sorry , sorry , sorry , we are doing a very wrong thing .\n",
      "User Interface: Adding them up ?\nIndustrial Designer: We're gonna average them ?\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah , we are taking everything ,\nIndustrial Designer: Okay . So seven fourths .\nMarketing: and that's {disfmarker} I have taken it very wrongly .\nUser Interface: Oh .\nMarketing: Yeah uh\nIndustrial Designer: About one point f one point eight .\nMarketing: three four four two six seven seven sev Yeah one pe exactly . So we can say one or two .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: {gap} because it is one point eight uh {gap} two , so we will do two .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh I see .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah round it up to two .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Okay , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: So trends .\nMarketing: So where were the trends .\nIndustrial Designer: Can you explain what you want us to write there ?\nMarketing: Sorry ?\nIndustrial Designer: How it {disfmarker} how conforms to the current trends ?\nMarketing: Yeah , again the the fashion trends , this also like whether it it will be fashionable to have these products in the {vocalsound} uh as a fruit shape or something .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: Uh .\nUser Interface: Well um going on uh the specifications that we had , that fruit and vegetables are quite popular , and that people like something that is good to look at and not many buttons , I would give it um , well , because it's hard to make a fruit good to look at , that that looks cool , you know ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so I would actually give it a three .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Tha three or four , I'm not sure .\nMarketing: Okay . Yeah .\nUser Interface: Three . Go for three . That's fine .\n",
      "Marketing: Uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: 'Kay . As far as the uh technology it its' got the latest trends in speech technology , but it's missing the screen , as we said , um but it does have the push-buttons , or the scroll-buttons , um but it doesn't have that fancy solar power or the the vibrating energy mechanism . So I give it a a four . I'd give it a kinda middle of the road for\nUser Interface: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: for technology .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I am sort of pret uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Just the fruit does me in , I mean uh it might\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: it might be trendy to some , but I'm just not swallowing the fruit , so um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh also uh I would have liked to have seen the L_C_D_ screen in it . Um so yeah I'd say about four as well .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . Uh personally I wi uh I think that in terms of trends , these products are quite good , like , these products are in fruit shape , because that wha people now {disfmarker} our fashion trend shows that people like everything {disfmarker} all f everything that is being advertised , like clothes , shoes , and everything is being advertised in the form of fruits and vegetables , or getting them {gap} or showing some association with them .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: So and in this way our product is good . And the second thing , now people don't want any complicated or bulky products and ours is quite simple and quite handy .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So that is also ef that also {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Our product meets the f the fashion uh trends of the market . And yes . It is cus spongy also . So they can play with it , it's quite good .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: So then I think , maybe I can give it two . So four five ten thirteen thirteen {gap} . So we can {disfmarker} Is it fine ? So what about company strategy ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: {gap}\nUser Interface: Um .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Well it was yellow . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , the company strategy , okay . Um {vocalsound} there was lot of discussing , that was good . Um I feel I got my say . Um so I'd give the company strategy a {vocalsound} two .\nIndustrial Designer: Well , I think it's the the remote control conforms to the the company strategy .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Is that the question ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Is it ? Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um .\n",
      "User Interface: Okay , so {vocalsound} one or two .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: One . Okay , just leave it , it's fine .\nIndustrial Designer: I'll go with two .\nMarketing: So what about you , Brian ?\nProject Manager: Um yeah , a three . Pretty much kept to the company strategy , so I would go for a {disfmarker} a one , as we not only kept it , but we were limited by {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , and me also , like , this product me uh me uh me uh this meets all company strategy like our product should be as per customers' requirement , as per latest technology , and it should be environmental safe . So since our product meets all these requirements , so I would also prefer to give it rank one . So four six six\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} So one and a half .\nMarketing: half .\nUser Interface: Yeah , one .\nMarketing: So we can say two or one {gap} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: A two . {gap}\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . So th seven seven . Uh overall we are getting two {gap} something , but we can round it as two .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nMarketing: Yeah . So I think overall uh evaluation of our product is quite good .\nProject Manager: Cool , groovy . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: S\nMarketing: So we can launch it . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Cool . Brilliant . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Woo-hoo .\n"
    ],
    "length": 8165,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 37,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This was a conceptual design meeting, at which some decisions on product components, functional design, and pricing were made. The group spent a lot of time discussing the components of the device, especially the scroll wheel and power source. The main topics in the discussion about functional design were speech recognition and the function of rolling through the user's favourite channels. The former was abandoned while the latter was adopted by the group for its novelty and feasibility. After discussing the functions, the group thought they were approaching the high-end market, so they could push up the price. In spite of that, the project manager supposed the profit expectation might not be so important as opening up a new market and promoting their brand. In the end, they agreed to price the product at thirty-five to fifty Euros.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Afternoon guys . It's gonna be {gap} .\nMarketing: Rock and roll .\nProject Manager: Oh . {vocalsound} {gap} 'Kay .\nMarketing: So do we need to re-train Mike on how to put his mic on ?\nProject Manager: We may do .\nIndustrial Designer: Think s\nMarketing: Okay , can he get it all by himself this time ?\nProject Manager: I dunno , I'm feeling like a big boy .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Pro\nMarketing: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: Probably not , 'cause he's 'S been listening to {gap} too much .\n",
      "Marketing: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: He's getting retarded . Yay .\nMarketing: I believe I can fly .\nUser Interface: Alright well we got some exciting stuff for you guys .\nIndustrial Designer: Or not .\nUser Interface: Or not . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Just what I needed was something exciting . Remember , I'm an old man .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: 'Kay , ready to go ?\nUser Interface: All ready .\nProject Manager: 'Kay so we've got our conceptual design meeting .\nIndustrial Designer: Apparently I'm old as well .\n",
      "Project Manager: Hopefully we've all got exciting ideas now .\nMarketing: Thirty's really young , eh ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} We do .\nProject Manager: Uh k exciting ideas . 'Kay so here's our agenda our agenda . Um\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: I'm gonna open . I'm gonna talk for a bit about what we're gonna do . I'm gonna take some notes . We're gonna all do a presentation , and then hopefully we're gonna make some decisions now . {vocalsound} Yep . {vocalsound} Well when I say hopefully , we have to . So\n",
      "User Interface: Alright .\nProject Manager: I'm gonna let you guys talk before we make decisions . And does anyone really want to go first ?\nUser Interface: I guess I'll go first .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: You p two ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: What's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Component , I think . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Components design .\nUser Interface: Yep that's it .\nIndustrial Designer: Presented by name . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: My name is {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Your name is name ?\n",
      "Marketing: Jose he man is .\nUser Interface: My name is name .\nProject Manager: Huh hi name .\nIndustrial Designer: My name is Inigo Montoya .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: You killed my father .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush .\nIndustrial Designer: Prepare to die . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: N name .\nProject Manager: Right . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control . Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here , and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here , your batteries here , and some sorta electronics . Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I just love you tech guys , huh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does th\nUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor , and this amplifies your signal ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board . Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot .\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly .\nIndustrial Designer: Nah .\n",
      "User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here , this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno .\nMarketing: P Yeah .\nUser Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: This is pretty standard remote . So here are options for our power sources . You can use a basic battery , which we've already discussed , um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the option of doing some kind of hand dynamo where maybe you crank it or something like that .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} 'Kay . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I wanna change that {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: I don't know if that's really {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I I gotta I gotta flashlight , and uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I don't know we got some qu crazy guys down there in that department so {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: You shake it .\n",
      "Marketing: yeah but it's interesting 'cause you shake it like this {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Like this {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: So that's the next bullet is the um the kinetic provision of energy ,\nMarketing: And that's on the camera {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh we've got solar cells , which I don't think is a very good idea because um you could not use your remote at night {vocalsound} which doesn't make a lot of sense .\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nUser Interface: And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea .\nProject Manager: Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle here ?\nUser Interface: M battery versus cradle I think is {disfmarker} yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: I like the kinetic .\nProject Manager: So we have battery versus cradle {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: I g I I figured you would . Yes . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: It could be fun {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: It's actually a novel thing because you could sell it a as a novelty , just to be actually serious for a minute here ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: you could {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well it is it is more uh {disfmarker} I mean it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle 'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle . So um\nProject Manager: Mm . Hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: our case design . We have uh choices in materials and choices in the general shapes that we can do . Our material choices are a plastic latex um ty or plastic , a rubber latex type thing , uh wood , or titanium . If we go with titanium we're gonna be uh limited in the amount of shapes we can do because it's tough to shape the titanium , and uh {disfmarker} Yeah pers\nProject Manager: Wood wood would ge would give us a little bit of a marketing niche , wouldn't it .\nUser Interface: I think wood i {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} It it it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Nah .\nUser Interface: I I can't see anybody wanting to use a wooden remote , it's just anti-technology really , you know .\nMarketing: Uh .\nProject Manager: Okay . Hmm .\nMarketing: Uh uh to me in a marketing sense it's not it's not relative . We can we can o we can uh accentuate whatever {disfmarker} whatever product you put in there we can find a way to accentuate it .\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: And what we may be able to do , and I think this might be the best option is to combine some {disfmarker} a couple of these . Um my recommendation personally would be to do some kind of a plastic inner shell with a like a rubber outer shell , to make it um to mak uh like a thick plastic inner shell and a t um kind of a {disfmarker} to have that rubber outer shell to make it more durable , and also maybe i I think it feels a little better than the plastic .\nProject Manager: 'Kay . Do you get a good grip on the rubber ? Yeah okay . {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: And if you make it from that super rubber , when you drop it on the floor it can bounce right back up in your hand .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: You don't even need to lean down to get it .\nUser Interface: The advantages of working with plastic and rubber is {disfmarker} w we we'll have a lot more um options just in terms of shape\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: because you can extrude plastic in basically any shape you want . So um {disfmarker} and then we can cover you know the breakable bits with rubber yeah so um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: But basically these are {vocalsound} curved and double-curved I I believe that the tech department , in their um {vocalsound} in their {vocalsound} message to me , that they were referring to the number of th curves in the bottom . I have no idea exactly what they're talking about ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: but that's what they told me , {vocalsound} uncurved , flat , curved , or double-curved .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I would guess this like this pen would be kinda like a double-curved , where it's curved on m m multiple axes , right ? I think curved means just curved in one axis and double-curved is curved in two axes\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: or surfaces . I have no idea .\nProject Manager: I think it might mean something like that sorta shape because a double curve rather than a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Mm-hmm yeah that's {disfmarker} yeah that's what I see .\nProject Manager: yeah that's what {gap} .\nUser Interface: Oh okay oh like a wave , okay .\nMarketing: Yeah that's what I see also .\nUser Interface: Alright that makes sense okay . Um okay , with the interface we have the following options , we can u we can use push buttons , we can use a scroll wheel with an integrated push button , and L_C_D_ display ,\nMarketing: Ooh .\n",
      "User Interface: or multiple scrolling wheels . Um so these are all options that the user interface guy can uh {disfmarker} has at his disposal to put together a user interface .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: For electronics , we have these very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here . A simple chip , which is the least expensive , but I have no numbers to give you ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: a regular chip , which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chip ?\nUser Interface: Yes the difference is , with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up ? Previous previous , okay . A simple chip is required to operate push buttons .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display , and it didn't say specifically , but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: So but yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah that makes sense . So presentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best . Next .\nUser Interface: That's the end of my presentation .\nProject Manager: Technical functions or interface concept ?\nUser Interface: I think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Oh interface concept .\nProject Manager: Yeah that's it .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yes , but it has your name on it .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well . Um so , somehow that thing's too big , but um {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition . They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so .\nUser Interface: No . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No . It it it {disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: If the T_V_ is working , yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll {disfmarker} if somebody says up in the middle of a television show , it's gonna change the channel .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah and and fighting for the remote would not be fun anymore ,\nUser Interface: So {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and I think that's one of the things we wanna keep .\n",
      "Project Manager: But what if you actually had to press a button to make it recognize ? So if you pressed it and went , up ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} That kinda would r d\nUser Interface: Well then why don't you just press the up button ?\nProject Manager: Man yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah . That would kind of lose it .\nProject Manager: But if it's just one thing with a button that you can just go {disfmarker} Up .\nUser Interface: Even still there's gonna be interf th there's there still will be interference from the T_V_ .\nMarketing: That's right .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , okay .\nUser Interface: It might not be it might not be completely confusing , but I think you'll still y it's still {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I don't think it's practical at all . I think it's a bad idea frankly .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah so um taking that away , our uh {disfmarker} the the the rubber but rubber buttons are the more reliable {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You guys know your stuff .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: it's the the ones that would al would allow us to to market our product as being you know less prone to damage and more resistant to things like spillage of liquids over it or you know mistreat misuses as it happens to remote controls . Um as for the point that we making about losing it . Well , we wanna small r remote control one side because uh we want it to be cool and uh designed , but um apparently um market shows that bigger s bigger um remotes get less lost ,\nUser Interface: That I would believe .\nIndustrial Designer: about {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: But um yeah I think we we need to compromise between those two and somehow we'll do that . Somehow . Um so {vocalsound} the the {disfmarker} what I would propose is something more or less in the uh direction of what is to yo the right of that slide uh but without {disfmarker} with a l a less complicated um design , so the numbers , the volume control , and channel control , and teletext access . Uh the volume and channel control can just become those the the four button array as in if it was a round dial .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And um if you just think about it as the one to the right but with the numbers and the four buttons plus maybe a centre one with teletext .\nProject Manager: So we're suggesting doing a sorta scroll wheel thing for the volume ?\nIndustrial Designer: Ye no it's not\nUser Interface: That's not a scroll wheel .\nIndustrial Designer: i i it's just four buttons that are on a cross ,\nProject Manager: Nah . Oh okay okay . I see .\nIndustrial Designer: so that you ba basically can control all of the important tasks from that {gap} alone .\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: Uh , okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Instead of play , stop , rewind , and fast forward there , that's up , down , louder , and quieter .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah um yeah so I think we w we go for something mid-sized , so something looks good\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and uh is not too prone to get lost . That be it .\nProject Manager: 'Kay . So on to {disfmarker} Y functional requirements or trend watching ?\nMarketing: I dunno .\nUser Interface: Trend watching has a later date there .\nMarketing: Trend watching I guess . Trend watching I believe .\n",
      "Project Manager: {gap} forty six nineteen fifty seven . Yep .\nMarketing: See what it looks like . It's been so long .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} .\nMarketing: Well {vocalsound} I don't know what to say . When I s when I see the {disfmarker} when I see the product I I I I don't wanna buy it . I see so many of 'em out there . There's nothing about that product that makes me wanna choose that product over other products that are out there .\n",
      "User Interface: Are you talking about the picture ? That's not our that's not our b design ,\nMarketing: Yeah yeah .\nUser Interface: that's just a {disfmarker} that's just something he a a graphic he used to show you the layout of what the layout of the buttons might be like .\nMarketing: Okay . Okay . Okay 'cause 'cause right now I don't have too much to say about how to market this product because we don't have a product to market yet .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: And uh from from talking to Mike is that we have we have uh we can market a more expensive product now . That's what I understand so ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Upper management said yes .\nMarketing: hello .\nProject Manager: Uh e excuse that , that's a bit of spam .\nMarketing: And and so {disfmarker} yeah I'm a I'm a little bit stuck right now in that what uh w what is it that I'm gonna market ? Uh without special or increased marketable features I don't believe the product has a consumer demand . Uh I like the idea of of the scroll makin {vocalsound} there are so many people making these products at this price right now . What are we gonna do to make this one special and unique ?\nUser Interface: What's special and unique about a scroll ?\n",
      "Marketing: Uh {vocalsound} well I don't {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's cool .\n",
      "Marketing: yeah it's {disfmarker} I I just see it as different . I don't say it's specially mm {disfmarker} I don't say it's special . Uh I say that it's different I {disfmarker} what I'm looking for as marketing is m give me something different . I give me a lower price , give me a higher price , give me some new technology , don't give me the same thing that everybody else is putting out there on the shelf it's f at the same price . I need something to market about this thing . We're we're a new firm .\n",
      "Project Manager: I'd I'd say though that we {disfmarker} if we did make the decision to go with the cradle though , the then we have that as well ,\nMarketing: What i {vocalsound} if when when we have {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: but wi with a similar {disfmarker}\nMarketing: yeah when we when we have something like the cradle or or something give that's {disfmarker} as as a marketing standard {disfmarker} I need something to market , to make this product unique .\n",
      "User Interface: Well right I think the two big th points that we have so far are the {disfmarker} having the cradle and also having uh the um the actual design of the uh case itself having like this like rubber shell maybe with a plastic interior ,\nMarketing: Yep .\nUser Interface: having it look really nice um and also be really durable .\nMarketing: Mm 'kay . Just remember when I made up this report I didn't have the information that we're discussing here .\nProject Manager: Mm . Course .\nUser Interface: Right yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: And and so so uh yeah when we have a cradle , when we have some kind of design , so what I'm saying is , from my perspective , I don't have a product to market right now . Um uh my personal preference is that we make some adjustment in the cost , either lower or develop an integrated new technol technology . That's that is the next step , there's technology and then there is technology , which we're moving into the next phase .\nProject Manager: Yeah 'cause that's {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: And so uh we're gonna have some new technology to enhance the marketability . Yeah uh again I'm not sold on the product because we don't have a product in my opinion yet .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: So I need a product .\nProject Manager: Mm 'kay .\nUser Interface: Well let's get a product then .\nMarketing: I need a product to market . And I just {disfmarker} whatever product you guys put together , we'll find a way to market it . Tha that I'm not concerned with .\nProject Manager: So now {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: If you if you give me {disfmarker} if you give me a cut-out of what everybody else has then I need to I need to find a lower cost .\nProject Manager: So our big {vocalsound} questions here really are cradle or not cradle ? Do we go basic or do we go for features ? Uh d does anyone really wanna do anything with the scroll wheel or should we ditch that off-hand first ?\nUser Interface: Well my question is what would the scroll wheel do ? Function-wise , what does that do that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh but that was in your presentation {vocalsound} so wh what would you imagine it doing ?\nMarketing: Yeah wh wh what's the {vocalsound} wh\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah . Well it's it's just another way to do the exact same thing that the buttons do .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Mm 'kay\nIndustrial Designer: But would we {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay now what I see with the scroll wheel is everybody has buttons . So from a marketing standpoint I have I have another door to walk through when we have something that's unique .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: If it creates something more complex or more expensive , then I don't know if that makes it uh a marketing necessity . But again , from a marketing perspective I want as much new and different about this thing as possible because we're we're co {vocalsound} it's a very competitive market .\nProject Manager: What I understand about scroll wheels is they're they're quite expensive to to make .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So I d\n",
      "User Interface: Th they are gonna be more expensive , but on the other hand , I mean , it {disfmarker} I mean it is an alternative if if you think that's gonna sell some some uh you know {disfmarker} if if we're gonna make up the extra cost by extra sales I think maybe it's worth it to do it , but I mean I would just use {disfmarker} if I was gonna do this I would just use the scroll wheel for s channels up and channels down . I don't think volume {disfmarker} or do you think volume would be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I dunno . I'll bet first in volume maybe . I dunno .\nUser Interface: No we can {disfmarker} we can do multiple scroll wheels but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well I d I like the idea of basically focusing the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} my personal preference is focusing the p the product on the idea of the uh the case the the {vocalsound} uh dock to put it in {disfmarker} to to charge it . We can target like environmentally friendly ideas , that sorta things .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: It s i m makes it easy to market ,\nMarketing: Yeah yeah .\nProject Manager: it's easy to differentiate the product , yeah so .\nMarketing: I think it's {disfmarker} that's right . I think so .\nProject Manager: And if we we keep the rest in a format that is durable because th th the whole product's gonna need to be more durable th thus because you're not going to be ditching it as often .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: It's gonna need to be more expensive because of the cradle .\nMarketing: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: So if we can market it in terms of that and yeah well {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yep . I think we got some exclusivity in that , you know , we got something that nobody else has right now ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: and and that means we can we can make some adjustments in the retail or wholesale price if we need to and it also can create it's own demand from it's uniqueness .\n",
      "Project Manager: So our big decision then is like how do we do um like {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we have to decide on the details and we have to decide on well n not exactly the details , but d do we have uh {disfmarker} What type of casing ? I personally like what you were saying about the plastic with the rubber .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: I'm thinking {disfmarker} yeah something like kinda almost like these pens , you know , where there's {disfmarker} you have plastic bits and then it's not really rubber but just kinda like a fused {disfmarker} the plastic with rubber on the outside .\nProject Manager: Okay . Just a very thin sorta sheet for a a grip , sorta thing or for {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well no ma yeah maybe a bit more then th is on here but ju just as a kind of an inspiration , these pens I think are are kind of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . So then if we {vocalsound} {disfmarker} d d do we want to do anything more basic with the {disfmarker} uh more advanced with the user interface in terms of do we want to go for {vocalsound} um buttons , or do we want {disfmarker} if we're ditching the scroll wheels do we want to go L_C_D_ ? Do we want to give {disfmarker} do we want to have anything else on it ?\nIndustrial Designer: It's only a T_V_ .\n",
      "User Interface: Or from from my perspective I think L_C_D_ is a mistake because this is a universal remote and all you're doing {disfmarker} I mean it's {disfmarker} you're not gonna get any information back from the television , so the only information you can display on this remote is what channel you {vocalsound} just sent it at last and there's just not a lot of information , you know , there .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: It receives no information .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: So I I don't see any reason for having an L_C_D_ 'cause it's an increased cost . Unless you can think of something interesting to do with it .\nMarketing: Yeah . Yeah right now there's {disfmarker} right now there's nothing coming out of the T_V_ to receive , so you know unless technology changes and information starts coming out of the {disfmarker} a cable box or something there's no s I don't see the ,\nUser Interface: Right .\nMarketing: I don't see the necessity of an L_C_D_ either . Don't see it .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on {disfmarker} well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: So , what we need to know in terms of marketing and uh project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build this ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: What what overall things have we not decided on ?\n",
      "User Interface: Well we have to {disfmarker} I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be . There's the scroll wheel , in or out ? What do you guys like in the user interface ?\nProject Manager: I think maybe in terms of marketing , is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the cost ?\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Again . Well I think it's it's {disfmarker} the more uniqueness you can bring to the product , the easier it is , I believe , for me to market . Uh again the push-buttons I I see are are everywhere . And so we can go with the same thing , but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique . You know the other thing I thought about was you know , do we go to something like this ? Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote . It's just another {disfmarker} it's just a an idea , and I don't know {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea , because {vocalsound} I think , as far as durability th it's not a big {disfmarker} well maybe when it's closed .\nMarketing: I mean what I see {disfmarker} one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is , when you got children , {vocalsound} their their stuff gets inside the circuitry , they get dirty , they get messy with drinks and stuff .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: This {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: And what I keep throwing out there {disfmarker} I just keep throwing out ideas to try to make this thing look or act or in some way identify itself as unique or different .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: But you guys are the ones that have to c ultimately create the product within cost .\nProject Manager: Yeah and I guess th th the question th {vocalsound} th that you're being asked right now is whether {disfmarker} is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product , or do we really need the scroll wheel as well ?\n",
      "Marketing: Oh okay\nProject Manager: Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost .\nMarketing: phew .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I think you gotta g get into cost effectiveness . I think if you can have the base station with a with a locator , I think those are two very strong features ,\nUser Interface: Well {disfmarker}\nMarketing: if that's something that can be integrated without a bunch of extra cost .\nUser Interface: The {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The locator's gonna require a radio transmitter , which will {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's gonna n is that gonna need a better chip as well ?\nUser Interface: Um {vocalsound} we're probably gonna have to go with a like a medium chip , s I would imagine .\nIndustrial Designer: No it's just different .\nUser Interface: But we I we will need a receiver , an antenna .\nMarketing: Integrated , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: So it's just uh I I think that's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It should be a really simple signal though so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} I know personally that would be a very attractive feature , is to have a uh have a button I can push to find my remote control .\nProject Manager: And it's presumably gonna need a little speaker in it or something like that as well to beep .\nUser Interface: That's true yeah .\nProject Manager: But I guess a little tiny speaker is gonna be quite cheap , it's not gonna need q quality , is it ? It's {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Oh yeah yeah . It'll be really cheap .\n",
      "Marketing: Or maybe you can like have a a smell-o-rama , you know you push a button and it s puts out a stink .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} You can {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe not {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Makes your living room more fresh as you watch {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay we're doing well for time here .\nIndustrial Designer: S\n",
      "Project Manager: Um we've got about another ten minutes . I think that uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: So the scroll wheel , in or out ?\nProject Manager: Mm pr my personal preference is out . I don't think the cost is justified {vocalsound} for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that , and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Yeah I think we have {disfmarker} like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing ,\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: 'cause it's it it breaks down easier .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be , but I think he does have a point , i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else , when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels . I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that .\nProject Manager: But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_\n",
      "Marketing: W\nProject Manager: because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Sure .\nProject Manager: if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels . Or do you have to go through and you wait for it ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this , where it's maybe you know a digital wheel , right , where it's where it's quantized into you know certain {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh I see I see . That's where you {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That was that was my my intuition of what the scroll wheel would be .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Ah I see I see what you're talking about now . Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: It's just {disfmarker} it's basically {disfmarker} it it's just a f look and feel thing . It has the same exact functionality as two buttons .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I I think there's {disfmarker} you know that uh there are so many people today that are that are surfing {disfmarker} are television surfers , and I see the scroll as a as a great mechanism for surfing .\nProject Manager: Yeah if you're just sitting there going {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Instead of going button-to-bu you just {vocalsound} j you'd j j j j j j .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: That's kinda cool actually .\nMarketing: I really I really think that's a really cool thing for surfing .\nProject Manager: I like that .\nUser Interface: Now just just so you know though uh you did bring up a point which is very valid , is a lot of T_V_s won't re the T_V_s won't respond exactly the same . Some of them are gonna be kinda slow switching , so you may like queue up like fifteen channel changes , and it'll be like flip , flip , flip .\n",
      "Marketing: Well there's ano\nProject Manager: Well not n necessarily .\nUser Interface: But {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You could basically make it so that it'll {disfmarker} I mean it's just gonna be sending a signal to the T_V_ yeah the T_V_'s ge so if you send about five flip channels , if you did that it's gonna flip once .\nUser Interface: Right .\nMarketing: That's right .\nProject Manager: If you do that .\nUser Interface: Yeah it just might be frustrating where you can't make it go as fast as you want ,\nProject Manager: Other than click click click . Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: but I think once people get used to it {disfmarker} I I do like the idea of the scroll wheel though .\nProject Manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product , then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well , yeah , presumably .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Primarily .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah I think so . I I think so .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\n",
      "Marketing: Now the the only thing I I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} on the interface side of it , is that {vocalsound} I I I see the dilemma . {vocalsound} But if we have the option of of scrolling {vocalsound} at any particular speed , or the option of jumping direct , okay .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: So I can go uh {vocalsound} presuming I have , on my television , something that tells me what channel I'm on , I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two . {vocalsound} I know what {disfmarker} because it's on the television . The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it . So {vocalsound} I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem , 'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button . Okay ?\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system ? You understand what I'm saying ?\nUser Interface: I think I know what you might be getting at , or or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Oh I see so if {disfmarker} maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it , right ? And then it {disfmarker} that basically {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Oh no we could read it from the television .\n",
      "User Interface: Well , what about this {disfmarker} what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels ,\nProject Manager: Mm . Well that's quite cool .\nUser Interface: and it c it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing .\nUser Interface: Why ? It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_ .\nMarketing: Yeah the the television can tell you .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Can .\n",
      "Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about . Yeah that's kinda cool . How would you program it though ?\nUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button . You say programme start , and then type in {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Put {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: 'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type 'em in manually .\nProject Manager: Okay okay .\nUser Interface: So programme start , zero , one , enter , zero , five , enter , {vocalsound} thirty eight , enter , programme end .\nProject Manager: Okay and yeah\n",
      "Marketing: And then .\nProject Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero , five , and then thirty six , and then zero , one again .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool . I like that .\nMarketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nMarketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really . You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology . This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services .\nProject Manager: Might be , but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature . The problem we're gonna have is making it robust . Making it last .\n",
      "User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes , between going through your favourites list and just hitting up one , up two .\nMarketing: Or we go directional up {vocalsound} we go we go this we go this we go this way for one , we go this way for the other .\nProject Manager: So if there's a button {vocalsound} for each type .\nUser Interface: No because you wanna be able to go up and down through the channels .\nProject Manager: Yeah people are gonna have their favourite sorta , whether they do that or whether they {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Ah-ha okay . Okay , okay ,\nUser Interface: Right .\nMarketing: well then you just have , you have a diff you have a mode switch .\nProject Manager: Yeah yeah the mode switch .\nUser Interface: I think we'll need a {vocalsound} we'll need a mode switch , but then if we have a mode switch we're gonna need some kinda indicator\nProject Manager: Just the lights behind the buttons .\nUser Interface: to which , an L_E_ an L_E_D_ {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You could have back-lit buttons maybe .\nUser Interface: okay .\nProject Manager: Would that work ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {gap} Yeah .\nProject Manager: Is that {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: okay we have five minutes . So right details th {vocalsound} that we've talked about here are that we want a scroll wheel .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: We want {vocalsound} a mode indicator . We want {vocalsound} back-lit buttons . And if we're making back-lit buttons period , do we want that just for the mode indicator or maybe to indicate what button you're pressing at the time , so that you know if it's actually pressed or not . I've seen some remotes do that .\nUser Interface: Okay . Just so you know I think {disfmarker} I mean it was my understanding that before we were gonna stay in the mid-market range . It seems we're kind of approaching a higher-end range .\nProject Manager: I think we are yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: I wanna make sure everybody's okay with that .\nMarketing: Yeah yeah . Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this .\nProject Manager: Yeah well we don't have {vocalsound} it's not that we have more money ,\nMarketing: Didn't you say so ?\nProject Manager: we can push up the the price .\nMarketing: That's what I mean .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: We can increase the cost .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: 'Kay .\nMarketing: So I don't know I don't know whether having {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it . So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah . So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to , though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components . But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that , and what sorta price can we make it for ?\n",
      "Marketing: Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say , okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume , because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit .\nProject Manager: Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting , our management is really looking for us to push our brand . We're entering a new market here ,\nUser Interface: Right .\nProject Manager: so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Okay I'm I'm okay with that . I guess what I just want {disfmarker} to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached , and then we have to take this to the next level .\nProject Manager: But th what's our ballpark as to what we'd be able to sell something like this for ?\nUser Interface: Well y yeah . Let's let's try and think now , how much would you pay for\nMarketing: We have to find cost .\n",
      "User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store , and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote , how much would you pay for that ?\nProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market .\nUser Interface: I'm just asking you .\nProject Manager: I'm a student , but on the other hand I would think , mm with my Project Manager salary , I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: If {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: uh would I buy it ? Maybe . If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel , which I think's a really cool idea , that would sell me on it a little . Then maybe you know . I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly , that would be way too much ,\nUser Interface: Oh no no .\n",
      "Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it , I guess , but not much {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: I would say thirty five to forty .\nMarketing: Yeah , I was gonna say thirty five to fifty .\nProject Manager: 'Kay . Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay . So the question is what we ca we make it for .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television .\nProject Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: Right .\n",
      "Marketing: It's one of the marketing features in this .\nProject Manager: That's why the scroll needs to be really robust .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay so we'll come up with something between thirty five and fifty that is rug rubber , robust , with scroll wheel , with the new facilities of the scroll wheel like favourite stuff , favourite channels , and and with a cradle , and yeah and the locator .\nUser Interface: With a cradle , radio transmitters , and back-lit buttons .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: And it's gonna look sexy {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} Or not {vocalsound} .\n",
      "User Interface: Or not . It might look like clay {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay so you can market pe depending on that ?\nMarketing: Yeah yeah . Bas th that's that's easy . That's that's not a , it's a {gap} . 'Cause we have about six , six , seven features in that alone .\nProject Manager: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: Cool .\nMarketing: Under the title of uniquenesses .\nIndustrial Designer: Hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . The next meeting starts in thirty {vocalsound} minutes , although does it ? It starts at three twenty one , the next meeting . So we've got more than a thirty minutes . Um {vocalsound} we've got more like fifty .\nMarketing: Well I have {disfmarker} Is my {disfmarker} three twenty one is the next meeting ?\nProject Manager: The the ne next meeting is three twenty one yeah .\nMarketing: That's that's almost uh fifty minutes .\nProject Manager: Yeah that is . Uh they've they've changed the times from the presentations .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} You guys can {disfmarker} You guys you guys can uh create a {disfmarker} All kinds of things .\nUser Interface: Probably . We'll let you know when we're done , if we can go earlier .\nMarketing: {gap} Thanks , yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay so you guys will be getting your modelling done now and uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay are there any other questions with regards to what this thing's gonna do , look like , how it's gonna work that need to be addressed before we really look at this in a lot of detail ?\n"
    ],
    "length": 11146,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 38,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This is the third meeting of the design group. Project Manager raised the question left over from the last meeting. That is, what kind of energy source should be used. Industrial Designer preferred a combination of solar cells with a back-up basic battery, but Project Manager rejected and decided to use a long-term battery in light of the production cost. Then Industrial Designer described the advantages and disadvantages of custom-designed chips and chips off the shelf. Due to the significance of technological innovation, the team decided to choose the former. After discussion, the team agreed that they needed buttons for channel change, power, menu and volume, and proposed to add a slide button. In terms of the appearance design, Marketing proposed to follow the fashion and use a spongy material. In order to keep up with the changes in fashion, the team recommended interchangeable covers.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Alright ? Alright . Thank you for coming to this third meeting of the uh uh design group . Um I think we uh made some definite progress at the last one um and come up with some interesting uh uh w suggestions for our our new remote control . Um I'll again very quickly uh just present some notes of that meeting . Um {vocalsound} the the the problem with existing remote controls , we felt , was that they're ugly um and that people are prepared to pay a premium for something better . Um they've got lots of buttons on them that uh people don't use and find difficult to learn . Um and people lose them . And {vocalsound} We we thought that f for our our new uh uh remote control that everybody will want to rush out and buy , um {vocalsound} that we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we should look at speech recognition rather than r rather than buttons , and that if we have any buttons they should be very few of them and only for those functions that are actually identified that that people use . That {disfmarker} um {vocalsound} we want to go for uh a long lasting battery that we gua we guarantee for the life of the uh uh the product and a shape that will be instantly recognisable , A_ um as uh a trendy remote control , and and B_ as uh a Real Reaction product . So that w uh when people are uh happy with that , they will they will want to buy uh everything else from us . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay . So again um , I'll {disfmarker} we'll have the three three presentations from the the the three of you and then uh we'll we'll make a a final a final uh decision . Um and the the decisions that we need to to make today , finally , are um what energy source we want to use , whether i it is practical to use uh um a a a long lasting one . And uh I I think our discussion was around the fact that uh if we're gonna go for uh a long lasting power supply , then basically it's uh sealed for life and uh if anybody does manage to run one down , we'll we'll give them another one . And uh it it'll be uh , you know , prominently displayed as part of the th the advertising literature that it's um um , you know , for life , guaranteed for life . Um {vocalsound} now the the the internal chip um {disfmarker} and uh this is where I need uh uh Kate's expert advice\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: and given that {vocalsound} th this has to to go to market as quickly as possible um d d do we go for a custom designed chip ? Or or do we buy one off the shelf and and programme it ourselves ? Uh I mean I'm I'm I'm n not an expert on these things , but presumably , there must be loads of 'em already on the market that we can modify .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: But uh that that's uh that's your area of expertise . And then the uh , you know , the the overall design of the case uh is is is Kendra's field and uh\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} we we had some discussions last time as as to uh how we might go forward and we'll we'll finalise those uh da today . Um and thi this is all linked in with the the the user interface , whether we p um {vocalsound} go for voice , buttons , or or a bit of both . Uh and then uh , you know , f for the next meeting Kate will be looking at the the the s the look , feel and design , Kendra the uh ho how the the user actually uses it and and Andrew of course the the product evaluation . And uh Kate and Kendra will be producing a a model for us to uh to look at .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh so , if if we can have the the three presentations again please , and uh um p perhaps you'd like to start uh k .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay . Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Kate . Oh I'm sorry , oh sorry .\nIndustrial Designer: Um p there we go .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} 'Kay , I'll just be talking about the components design . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Okay , basically I just uh looked at what exactly do remotes do . Uh basically they wait for you to press a key or give a voice command and then this is translated uh into uh light signals which are then seen by the T_V_ . Uh the materials we're gonna need to look at {disfmarker} uh the two big ones are the integrated circuit chip and the battery and the in integrated circuit chip uh works in conjunction with a a diode transistor or resonator , uh two more resistors and a capacitor and the battery works in conjunction with a resistor and a capacitor . Um . {vocalsound} Uh basically what happens is you'll press a number or give a voice command and this creates a a connection within the the remote that allows the chip {disfmarker} the chip then senses this connection and produces a signal in a Morse code format . This signal's sent to the transistor which amplifies it and then sends it on to the light emitting diode and uh {disfmarker} which is then trai changed into a infrared light which is sent to the T_V_ and sort of seen by the T_V_ and which uh changes the channels . {vocalsound} Um . Oh . {vocalsound} Uh cool . {vocalsound} Uh so as for how we should end up uh using this in our remote uh t couple of main questions are the buttons . Uh y the fewer buttons you have , I guess the fewer internal connections and internal codes you're gonna need . Um however uh to n not have buttons or to use a voice commands instead of buttons might make these connections more difficult and uh raise the production cost . That's something we should think about . Also we have to work within the company constraints , and the company has informed me via email that uh they're experts at pushbuttons and that seems to be the most uh cost-effective way of producing it . Um also with battery connections the company has some limits on the batteries we can use , so I was thinking perhaps a combination of solar cells with a back-up basic battery and somehow between the combination of that two we might be able to come up with something that uh will last the the lifetime or the five to ten years and we could still keep that original idea . {vocalsound} Um we also need to look at the chips , uh v custom-designed versus off the shelf , and the custom-designed will give us much more flexibility and enable us to incorporate the voice function that we all uh seem to have agreed upon . Um , however that's gonna cost more , but uh the off the shelf is gonna be uh cheaper and it's gonna be {disfmarker} allow us to produce it quicker and get out there faster , but it's going to be less flexible with the features , especially things like uh voice activation , which haven't really been used much on remotes , so there's not really chips out there that would be easy to uh to convert ,\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: so if we were uh definitely gonna go with the the voice option we'd probably have to design um our own chip . {vocalsound} And that pretty much sums it up .\nProject Manager: so how um {disfmarker} sorry , can you uh just put that one back up again , please ? Um .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Oh yep , sorry . {vocalsound} Yep .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh d d d {vocalsound} okay , I mean uh inevitably a b a custom design chip is gonna be more expensive . Do we do we know uh by how much ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . {vocalsound} Um I don't actually have any price information , no . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And and do we know how long it'll take to uh develop a a custom chip .\nIndustrial Designer: Um it {disfmarker} a lot longer than an off the shelf chip . Oh w yeah , we did {disfmarker} the the problem is the the the voice technology is not really highly developed ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Right ,\nIndustrial Designer: it's sort of still still in an ex experimental form ,\nProject Manager: okay .\nIndustrial Designer: uh so it would uh {disfmarker} it's hard to predict the time . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Right , I think we need to make a a decision here . Uh given that the company wants this on the market quickly and cheaply ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: that would appear to uh effectively constrain us to an existing chip and thus therefore conventional button technology . Um uh now before we go round everybody else , does anybody um h have any have anyti ha anything to say about that ?\n",
      "User Interface: I {disfmarker} I just have a question about that . Um does it make a difference if there are just a few commands , for example if you um can pre-programme in like numbers one through ten and pre-programme say , you know , nine channels and then just use the voice recognition to say channel one and then you've programmed in say B_B_C_ four as your channel one , as your favourite , it's like to have a certain number of favourites um\nIndustrial Designer: W just to to incorporate the voice activation in it is is sorta the trick .\nUser Interface: and that w\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Once you've got the whole voice chip in there , then it's pretty much the the world {disfmarker} the the sky is your limit ,\nUser Interface: Okay . Then it doesn't matter . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: but to actually {disfmarker} the the big step is to actually get the voice activation chips in there and working .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Cause uh I {vocalsound} must say I find it slightly surprising given that , you know , mobile phones incorporate voice activated dialling . So uh um I mean\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: I d d for slightly different {disfmarker} well no , I mean , it's if you you {disfmarker} speak somebody's name and it'll dial the number for you , so uh bu I mean the this this information is from {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} this is the internal company information , is it ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh bits of it , yeah .\nProject Manager: So uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Of course mobile phones do tend to be more expensive ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , as well .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: you know , hundred and fifty pounds or something . As opposed to the twenty Euros , twenty five Euros .\nProject Manager: Yeah , mm true , again but if it's without any without any uh p price informations that's uh difficult to uh\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: uh decide .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Also lots of mobile phones have got a lot of technology in them , not just that , so .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , that's that's right . It's like {disfmarker} it's it's {disfmarker} you can't {disfmarker} 'cause mobile phones are expensive , you can't say it's the voice recognition bit that is .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: But we don't know . Um . {vocalsound} I mean uh I su i I mean if {disfmarker} given that the um the technology is not well developed and and given that it's it's never been done before , um th th the double risk , uh perhaps we ought to uh stick to uh to buttons , since the last thing we want to do is present a product that doesn't work . Um . Thoughts ?\nUser Interface: Well , another thought I {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Would {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: oh , sorry , go ahead .\n",
      "Marketing: Oh I was just gonna say mayb maybe it sh like um {disfmarker} maybe we can like cut corners somewhere else to bring in over cost .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I mean do w do we think that the voice technology is fundamental to the project ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh it's fundament well I mean I guess it it's something we've discussed uh since the the sort of the beginning , so I th I think in in our in our minds it's it's fundamental , but I don't know that the uh the upper echelons of the company would necessarily agree with that , so I think you have to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I mean I think we {disfmarker} {gap}\nUser Interface: Oh yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm .\nIndustrial Designer: Hm .\nUser Interface: {gap} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well , I kinda think if we're gonna have the voice recognition for part of it , then maybe we should have it for the whole thing .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I I I I I think that's uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: And we've been talking about it the whole time .\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm , mm .\nUser Interface: Anyway , I'm I'm incli kinda inclined to say that we should just go for it .\nProject Manager: Mm , right , okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Uh yeah , {gap} it's the second most important aspect to users that the device should be technologically innovative .\nProject Manager: {gap}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: From uh my presentation show , so .\nProject Manager: Yeah , it should be {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh technologically innovative .\nProject Manager: Right , okay , so .\nIndustrial Designer: No ,\nProject Manager: Fine . Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: that sounds good . Mm .\nProject Manager: I it will have voice recognition um uh\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Cool .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: if if that means uh if that means we can't afford buttons but I mean b b {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: second question , do we need the five buttons for channel change , up down , {vocalsound} volume up down and on off , just as a a backup or just so that people can uh j j just sit there pressing buttons ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , I I would say we do , yeah .\nUser Interface: I think so .\nProject Manager: Right . Okay . Sorry , d did you want to say anything ? No ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh nope ,\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: that was it , that was it .\nProject Manager: Shall we move rapidly on to uh Kendra ?\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: Uh um ra rapidly move the cable over .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Let's see .\nProject Manager: Mm . Oh good .\nUser Interface: Oh . Yes . Is it gonna work ?\nProject Manager: Mm yeah ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah , it's thinking about it .\nProject Manager: it'll get there . Yep .\nUser Interface: Okay . Okay ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: so I did some research on the internet and um {vocalsound} what {vocalsound} {disfmarker} you know , the interf user interface are just aspects that are seen by users , um commands and mechanisms for the operation , and there're just kind of a variety of choices . Um findings , so a lot of times they tend to look cluttered\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: and these were just a couple examples of um different kinds that are a little bit more unusual .\nProject Manager: Mm , yeah .\nUser Interface: There're some special ones available , like this one right here ,\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nUser Interface: which is marketed towards children , um different designs ,\nProject Manager: Alright .\nUser Interface: and one of the things that n we need to watch out for is a V_ in volume because people some {vocalsound} Bring a little picture of what I thought ours could look like {vocalsound} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: So just kind of minimise the clutter ,\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: avoid too many buttons and also um {vocalsound} one of the things that people have used is a slide button , like you have on a mouse , that possibly we could use that on the sides for volume , for example , have the slide button on the side ,\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: and then you can pre-programme the channels , the voice recognition and then the voice response sample locator .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Mm yeah . Sorry y y yeah , {vocalsound} if I can interrupt you . Well d {vocalsound} p 'kay , do you wanna say anything about um slide controls ?\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: I mean I think the reason everybody uses pushbuttons is that they're they're si simple , cheap and reliable .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh I think they're they're about the same cost really . I I mean , I think it's just sort of {disfmarker} the the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} there's a lot of slide buttons out there . I think it's pretty much the same sort of connection . Mm yeah . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , fair enough , fine .\nUser Interface: Just because I n for example if I'm using a mouse I like to be able to slide it up and down\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "User Interface: so I thought it might be good for volume to just be able to kind of roll it and then have the up and down\nProject Manager: Yeah . Good , good .\nUser Interface: and then the {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: this is my great little drawing .\nProject Manager: So three three {disfmarker} there's three buttons on a slider .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Three buttons , channel up channel up down and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Y yes , yes .\n",
      "Marketing: Well , if you g if you if you got a channel up down , we can have a slider in that as well . Because if it {disfmarker} if you no\nUser Interface: {gap}\nMarketing: if you notice on the thing it it kind of like has got kind of {disfmarker} if you you know it s kind of like sticks , if you know what I mean , up like one unit , if you see what I mean .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: So it kinda goes up one , then y like you can keep rolling it up , but it's like like like like a cog or something .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh-huh .\nMarketing: So you kinda take it up one at a time .\nProject Manager: Okay . Um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: The only advantage I was thinking of to having the buttons , like the buttons on one side for the channel , and then the slider is that if you're just holding in your hand , and you pick it up , it's easy to n s know , okay , this is just the volume and this is the channel .\nMarketing: D\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh .\nProject Manager: This one on the one side and one {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh you could you could {vocalsound} as l as like a mouse you could {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: yeah . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Ye yeah , 'cause I've definitely picked up remotes and like meant to change the channel and turn the volume , or vice versa ,\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: so it'd be kinda good to have them be {disfmarker} feel completely different . You'd know what you were fiddling with .\nProject Manager: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: or {disfmarker} yeah uh th th the {disfmarker} I mean thi this is what the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That was {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , like the shape of it almost like a mouse , with a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: we have to come up with is the the actual shape that people can ins instantly pick it up and and know know uh know what it's going to do .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , so we we're looking at sliders for both a {disfmarker} uh volume and channel change\nUser Interface: Um well\n",
      "Project Manager: of one sort .\nUser Interface: I was thinking kind of just for the volume ,\nProject Manager: Just for the volume , uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: but what what do you guys think ?\nMarketing: Dep I dunno if it {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: We could {disfmarker}\nMarketing: depending on the final shape of it , 'cause you could have like , I dunno , {gap} it looks like you can c control the volume with your thumb ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: and then you could control the buttons with your fingers .\nProject Manager: Fingers ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah ,\nProject Manager: yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: 'cause if {disfmarker} yeah , in that kinda position the fingers would be better for pressing and the {disfmarker} that for rolling ,\nProject Manager: It {disfmarker} yeah , I mean it it it seems to me that uh it uh it al also has the advantage that it it {disfmarker} the two are clearly different ,\nUser Interface: B\nIndustrial Designer: just the way it would {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm yeah , yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: um that there's no no possibility of uh confusing the two .\nMarketing: Oh yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: So okay . Right so uh\nUser Interface: I'm just gonna pass this along .\nProject Manager: that's {disfmarker} sorry is that that all you want to say at the mo\nUser Interface: Yes .\nProject Manager: okay , fine .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Mm right .\nMarketing: {gap}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Here we go .\nProject Manager: Right .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} Uh yeah , this is my report on trend watching .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: The data's come off internet uh from executive summary for us on the top three things wanted by the consumer . And we got reports from Paris , Milan on new fashions .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: And uh the most important aspect is the l the look {disfmarker} it has to look fancy , look and feel\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: uh instead of the current functional look and feel . This is a st well I was gonna say yeah twice as important as the second aspect ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm .\nMarketing: which is the technologically innov innovative um side of it . So uh and the third being easy to use is probably a given , we have to try and incorporate , so uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well I I mean I th I think that what we're suggesting ought to address all three of those .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh exactly , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} I s that out of sequence ? Uh yeah , sorry . Uh yeah , and uh from the fashion watchers from Milan and Paris have said fruit and vegetables are an important theme for clothes and furniture and shoes , et cetera .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Oh .\nMarketing: Uh sorry , clothes , shoes and furniture\nProject Manager: Uh-huh .\nMarketing: and uh a spongy material to be used on the {vocalsound} on the outside .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm I hadn't thought of that , that's different , certainly .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . But uh I was gonna say um yeah ,\nProject Manager: What ?\nMarketing: fruit and vegetables , uh important to {disfmarker} this year um important to furniture , I'm just gonna say uh {vocalsound} f like it's in {disfmarker} if if fashion {disfmarker} if we're going for the it looks fancy , then fashion is obviously the line we gotta be going through .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: But fashions do don't last very long .\nIndustrial Designer: Well that can kinda tie into our changing uh face things , like we could have the fruit and vegetable theme this year\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: and uh whatever happens next year , we can have the face plates ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah , we can have a sp like a spongy skin on it\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nProject Manager: Uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah ,\nMarketing: and then we can just whip that off and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah like the kind you get on like hand weights . You know , that kind of spongy {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , yeah , that weird {disfmarker} I dunno what that is ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh .\nIndustrial Designer: but yeah .\nUser Interface: yeah .\nMarketing: A kind of {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Also means you can drop it without damaging it .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Oh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh {vocalsound} , yeah , it's good as well . Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's true .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker} c cool . Um {vocalsound} you have {disfmarker} we could {disfmarker} if we could save {disfmarker} depending on the cost of the product itself , you know , could we have uh a cheaper b cheaper power source and then just have it annually renewed ? Instead of having a ten year guarantee ? With interchangeable covers , could just buy a new one every year , a new one when new fashions come out .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I mean it its uh I {disfmarker} that's an interesting idea , it's like the old Swatch watch where uh um on only batteries ever got changed in those , 'cause people just bought a new one when it went out of fashion ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: but it's just never been seen as a a fashion item before . Um that's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Wh\nProject Manager: yes if if if they're made in sufficient quantity {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I {disfmarker} I think it's easier sometimes to have them buy changeable covers for it than to buy a whole new one , because you don't feel like you're investing in a whole new product .\nProject Manager: W I mean we we can uh uh b but I mean my feeling is that current power sources are such that for relatively little cost you can make it last , you know , a long time .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . Mm . Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um but if we also make it cheap enough that people either change the cover every year or even buy a new one every year then it it's it's even better .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm . Mm .\nUser Interface: What if we included the batteries in the cover ?\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh yeah . I like that .\nUser Interface: So um\nIndustrial Designer: That all c also kind of encourages 'em to buy new covers\nUser Interface: like {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: and {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , so can I see that thing ?\nProject Manager: S\nIndustrial Designer: Um .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah ,\nUser Interface: Just {disfmarker} this as examples .\n",
      "Project Manager: I n I know {disfmarker} the only p I mean the the the the immediate thing that comes to mind with that is that it it it {disfmarker} y you've then got the connection\nUser Interface: So f\nProject Manager: and you've immediately got a sort of unreliability , whereas the advantage of having it plumbed in is that that the whole thing is all , you know , completely soldered together\nIndustrial Designer: Uh yeah .\nProject Manager: and it it it {disfmarker} you know , total reliability ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I guess that's true .\n",
      "Project Manager: but I mean I d I I uh I know what you're saying and uh understand where you're coming from .\nMarketing: Or {disfmarker} well , but like uh like more than just the battery , like a complete different {disfmarker} like you've only got like , you know like th uh this bit's the bit you keep , and this is the expensive bit , this is like the chip\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: and this is the microphone . And then this is the power source and the bit everyone sees . And then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I th I s I think if we're gonna go down that route , then we're talking about uh {disfmarker} even if it costs slightly more than that , um just building the whole thing in one , then having {disfmarker} getting cheaper production costs\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , you probably are right .\nProject Manager: um and , you know giving people the option of buying a new uh {disfmarker} a a complete new thing , the advantage of a replaceable cover is that even if they don't {disfmarker} it doesn't have a cover on at all , it will still work um totally .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's true .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Um then if , you know , if people lose the cover , I mean they they might be well inclined to go out and spend however many Euros on a on a new one um rather than a a complete new re remote .\nUser Interface: Yeah , yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well that that's just it with the covers , you're sort of tricking 'em into continuing to spend their money on our products without making 'em feel like they're being ripped off having to buy a new product .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , I mean it is {disfmarker} it's up to it's up to {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: So ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , just another five Euro to get {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: it's it's up to our marketing people to to ma to ma turn it into a a fashion item .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Right .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um and , you know , as as external fashions change , then we get new new covers on the market and , you know , readily available .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: And um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: And that's the sort of thing , once you get the mould set , you can just whip out different colours , different pictures very very quickly .\nProject Manager: {gap} that's that's right , yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , like they have for mobile phones\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , exactly , exactly .\nUser Interface: that are just fruits and animal prints and colours .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: So uh i so uh okay . {vocalsound} Um right ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , okay .\nProject Manager: sorry . Um we hadn't finished your {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker} oh , don't worry it's all said , I was just gonna say uh {disfmarker} yeah , are we gonna make this as part of like like uh {disfmarker} a part of the f like it it {disfmarker} the fashions apply to furniture , so are we gonna make this part of the furniture ?\n",
      "Project Manager: It's the sort of thing that we want people to have prominent dis displayed on their um coffee table to say this says something about me .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Um this is fashionable .\nMarketing: Yeah . This is fashionable\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: with {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I , you know , I'm I'm I'm with it , I'm up to date . And you know , th the the design that I've got , and and it could be a a home-made design , um you know this says this is not just a a television remote control , this is , you know , a fashion accessory . Um , so I mean the the the basic shape i is is what we uh {disfmarker} I mean given that we've got you know one one on off button presumably , two buttons for uh channel change and one slider and basically nothing else ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: um w we need to decide on the {disfmarker} just the basic shape of the thing . And , know whether we go down the fruit and veg route , and I don't suggest we make it look like a banana , but um know sort of the the organic , you know , curved look ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: you know , t to deliberately get away from the uh um {vocalsound} uh you know , the the the the square look of most um current uh remotes\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: Oh yeah .\nProject Manager: and , you know , whether whether the you know , the the fixed part of it is the corporate yellow . Um mm or uh {disfmarker} 'cause there's certainly you know , the the corporate logo needs to be prominently uh displayed so that people s th looked at it and say right , that's a Real Reaction remote control , I want one of those .\nIndustrial Designer: I dunno that we should make the whole thing yellow I kinda thought with a {disfmarker} you'd have like a yellow circle with the R_R_ in it somewhere on it ,\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah uh the the uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or or b\nIndustrial Designer: but I'd {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: yellow seems a bit of a strong colour\nUser Interface: like an {gap} .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I'd I'd um {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: to make the ent like the thing {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: yeah . Uh no\nIndustrial Designer: no , but I mean just like white or grey or black or some sort of blah colour .\n",
      "Project Manager: I d I I agree , I mean we're we're we're simply {disfmarker} it's simply required to incorporate the the the the corporate logo prominently um .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound} . Mm {vocalsound} .\nMarketing: And make that a fashion symbol as well . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Well n\n",
      "Project Manager: Well , th this is {disfmarker} this is the whole point , yes , you know , I'm {disfmarker} I've got a a Real Reaction uh remote control to go with my Real Reaction coffee maker or or whatever .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And uh then people , you know , people demand more Real Reaction stuff .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Well I was sort of mm kinda picturing like maybe um {vocalsound} a shape that's almost like a mouse .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm . Yeah .\nUser Interface: So that , you know , when they hold it it's {disfmarker} because a mouse is pretty comfortable to hold in your hand um maybe we could make it a slightly different shape so they could hold on to it , but that way they can have the volume on the side and then the channel buttons and\nProject Manager: Yeah . Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: have the power , wherever , somewhere .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: I mean I've uh {disfmarker} yeah .\nUser Interface: I mean that was just an idea that I had .\nProject Manager: Oh no that {disfmarker} well there's the sim {disfmarker} my my idea was something a b probably you know a bit fatter than this but sort of tha that sorta shape\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah , maybe .\nProject Manager: so that you can just sort of ho hold it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , you'd want it narrower than a mouse though\nUser Interface: Kind of a c\n",
      "Industrial Designer: 'cause it {disfmarker} a mouse you're kinda just resting on it , you want something you can definitely grip .\nProject Manager: W it {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} well it's sort of it's it's sort of uh a a mouse ,\nIndustrial Designer: So maybe it'd be {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Sort of a combination .\n",
      "Project Manager: but held , you know , so it's {disfmarker} you sorta hold it in your hand like that , i with , you know , and fiddling with the buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , and fiddle around with it and press it .\nUser Interface: Yeah so {disfmarker} yeah , kind of maybe maybe a little wider than this , 'cause this is pretty comfortable to hold , and then if you had {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Maybe almost like a hairbrush , like you could get the {disfmarker} about the width of that end of the pen and then it widens up top\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: and you can fiddle\nUser Interface: then wider up here .\nIndustrial Designer: an yeah .\nUser Interface: And then it would have a l uh wider thing to uh have the light , the infrared light at the T_V_ and just kinda change channels and adjust the volume\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah . Yeah . Mm .\nUser Interface: and the power could be wherever , up up the top or something .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , cool .\n",
      "User Interface: What do you guys think about that ?\nProject Manager: Okay , yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , that sounds {disfmarker} Um I'm just {disfmarker} I'm suddenly realising that yeah we're discussing how much {disfmarker} how good it's gonna be to change channels t we still can just tell it to . I mean are we are we starting to get away from the the voice functionality of it ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Oh yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: It's a very good point .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: It is a very good point .\nProject Manager: I think we d I think we decided that w we're actually going down both routes . That um the {vocalsound} we n\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: we need the the manual controls and that they should be of that form , but that uh {disfmarker} yeah {vocalsound} .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker} do you know , this shape also kind of les lend itself to to voice {gap} 'cause if you're you're holding it and you're fiddling , but you can also bring it up like that\nProject Manager: Then you just bring it up to your mouth and just speak to it ,\nIndustrial Designer: and it's microphone-esque ,\nUser Interface: Yeah , and just say {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , maybe we cou like w like we're leaving out the buttons for the the f less frequently used stuff ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\n",
      "Marketing: but maybe we could incorporate that into the voice .\nProject Manager: I th I th honest uh {vocalsound} my personal view is that if it's not there , people wouldn't use it anyway um .\nMarketing: Mm I suppose , but t there is the off chance that , you know , th the brightness is wrong on your T_V_ or the contrast needs changing .\nProject Manager: It's cer it's certainly possible I mean , but they {disfmarker} we we're going beyond w w\nIndustrial Designer: Bu Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: given the state of the technology {vocalsound} we want something that we kno we know will will work um .\nMarketing: Hmm yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Well you can still i incorporate the voice with with less buttons . I mean {vocalsound} uh if the power button was also somehow like a menu button you could press that and {disfmarker} or do voice commands , and {vocalsound} either volume thing could also be to scroll through other options like y and you could scroll through brightness\nProject Manager: Uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: and and sc\n",
      "Marketing: that's a good idea .\nIndustrial Designer: and then you can you can minimise the buttons\nUser Interface: Yeah , I suppose I sup\nIndustrial Designer: and still have those , you know , brightness and tint and stuff .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: If we we're {disfmarker} I mean {vocalsound} I'm getting a clear message that we think that we should have those facilities available .\nUser Interface: So I guess we could have a menu button as well .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: We could have the channels and the power and then a menu button and then the volume .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yeah .\nUser Interface: So have four buttons and the volume instead of three buttons and the volume .\nProject Manager: Uh uh uh\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , if we if we're going down that route , then we need some sort of display . Do we need some sort of display ?\nIndustrial Designer: But the television would be the display\nProject Manager: We actually use the television , okay . Okay , okay , okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's on the T_V_ , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: that {disfmarker} things like that usually c pop up on a televi like you hit menu\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , and then y\nIndustrial Designer: and menu will come up on television and have like tint brightness , and you'd use the scroll , scroll through it yeah .\nMarketing: Well I mean\nProject Manager: Yep .\nMarketing: on a {disfmarker} onto like a mouse , the ru the scrolling button , is actually a button as well , you could press it , you could press that and have it as a menu button .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , yeah , that's true .\nUser Interface: Yeah , press that is t\nIndustrial Designer: I never understood how that worked though ,\nUser Interface: yeah , that might work .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: but yeah . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Yeah , it's like um {disfmarker} yeah , it's like the mouse where you just kinda click it . You just press it .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , mm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , and you could just click that to {disfmarker} so if you had like the menu then you could scroll through and then click it to select .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , oka yeah . Yeah .\nUser Interface: You know what I mean ?\nMarketing: Uh yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm yeah . Okay , we got five minutes to go in this meeting ,\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: so um I d I think we've actually very conveniently just uh come to uh a good point to s to sum up um .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Cool .\nProject Manager: So um b b Kate and Kendra now go away and uh pa play play with a bit of Plasticine or play-dough ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Play with play-dough . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: whatever it is on the other side of the Atlantic .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um and actually put what we've discussed into something uh {disfmarker} I was gonna say concrete ,\nMarketing: Hmm .\nProject Manager: but that's a slightly inappropriate word {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: um to something that we can we can see and um Andrew n can go away and th th think about how we can uh actually market this as a concept and not j not just a uh um a a simple remote control .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh can I just get some things clear just for {vocalsound} my sake .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , certainly , of course .\nMarketing: Our energy source is gonna be\nProject Manager: I think I think we decided that we're gonna {disfmarker} for\nMarketing: long term .\nProject Manager: for simplicity of , you know , manufacturing and uh maintenance that we will go for a a long term battery source um ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nMarketing: Cool . Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I {disfmarker} you know , on the basis that um that , you know , if we're going for making it a fashion statement , then uh people are more likely to change it anyway uh before i it runs out and um {vocalsound} make an assumption that we we can aim for a battery that will last most people for uh we'll say at least five five ten years\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: and that we'll w we will guarantee it for for five years um .\nMarketing: And we're having a custom chip ?\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} We're having a a custom chip , but given the the {disfmarker} we've cut the functions down , um that will hopefully not be too problematic , but given that um technol technological innovation is important ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: then we need to , I'll say it again , technologically innovate .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um and uh we we , know , we must resist any efforts to uh to try and water that down um .\nMarketing: And interchangeable case ?\n",
      "Project Manager: I i interchangeable case seems to be um {vocalsound} um important to the concept .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Um it it should be cheap , you know , if if we avoid any , you know , electrical connections .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: And uh i you know , i if we can come up with some way of of allowing people to actually personalise it uh to whatever they want , then uh {disfmarker} I mean uh uh this is totally new .\nMarketing: Mm , mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: We d we don't know whether that {disfmarker} to what extent people do it or not , but if they've at least got a a good selection of um covers that they can use anyway , and uh and if if we can keep them , you know , rolling , then uh {disfmarker} you know , so they can get them in the supermarket when they go down to um a any of the famous supermarkets , I won't mention any mention any names ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: um it's uh it's good for the supermarket\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: and it's good for us and it hopefully makes them feel better .\nMarketing: And uh are we gonna have it il being illuminated from inside onto the buttons or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Um the {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} I mean that's {disfmarker} no , because we've got so few buttons that it {disfmarker} that actually makes that redundant .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm , does actually , yeah , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , I think so too .\nMarketing: Cool .\nUser Interface: Yeah , and especially for making them so like different and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Mm different to feel ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: yeah , yeah .\nProject Manager: And the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: you know , that that solves one of the problems of b of battery life , 'cause that would {disfmarker} well that would clobber the battery life ,\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm . Yep , yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: so no , I mean given the nature of the buttons we're having , it's actually uh uh unnecessary I think .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Are we having it that it's any angle , or is it just {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} As uh as wide\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: {disfmarker} cer certainly wider angle than than current ,\nMarketing: As wide as possible .\nProject Manager: so that if you're holding it , you know , anyway like you're likely to and uh it's uh {vocalsound} you know , i i it will work most of the time um .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm {vocalsound} yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Like this or like this .\nProject Manager: Not like my my mum who points it at the ceiling and wonders why the th th the television doesn't work .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Um yeah , I mean I d I th I sorta envisaged that if if this was the the thing , then sort of the the whole of the top would be the uh the infrared uh .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: Yeah , kinda like this whole {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um so {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: So you could use like this and it would go {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm .\nProject Manager: Yeah , 'cause I mean the r reality is people are {vocalsound} {disfmarker} they're gonna be looking at the television whilst they're using it , the chances are , so if if they're holding it anyway , the they're reasonably likely to be holding it to use it ,\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: then uh then that that's the sort of coverage that we want .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 11298,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 39,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting was taken up by discussion about a thesis proposal and a talk about to take place at EML. It was advised that more emphasis should be put on the role of construal in the understanding of metaphor and metonymy. Base constructions deal with the norm, while further general domain mechanisms determine how the constructions are invoked depending on the context. Several potential examples of polysemy were discussed in detail: \"walk/run into\", \"on the bus\", \"out of film\", \"where is X?\". However, none of them was an example of lexical polysemy resolved by construal straightforward enough to include in the proposal; the tourist domain is not metaphor rich.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad A: Ah , so comfortable .\nGrad F: Smooth .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Good . I know that he 's going to like , Taiwan and other places to eat . So .\nGrad D: On ? Am I on ?\nGrad A: Yep . Yep .\nGrad D: I think I 'm on ?\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Good . Good .\nGrad A: Bye .\nGrad B: Actually {disfmarker}\nGrad F: I just had one of the most frustrating meetings of my career .\nGrad A: It 's definitely not the most frustrating meeting I 've ever had .\n",
      "Grad D: You a You 're {disfmarker} you remember you 're being recorded at this point .\nGrad A: Oh , yeah , so , w we didn't yet specify with whom .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad A: But um .\nProfessor E: Uh , right .\nGrad A: So that 's why Keith and I are going to be a little dazed for the first half m the meeting .\nProfessor E: Uh .\nGrad F: Huh . Yeah , I 'm just gonna sit here and\n",
      "Professor E: Right . Yeah , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I avoided that as long as I could for you guys ,\nGrad F: growl .\nProfessor E: but , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: For which we thank you , by the way .\nGrad A: Are very appreciative , yeah .\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad F: I know you were {disfmarker} you were doing that , but , anyway .\nGrad D: Oh yeah , how di how d exactly did , uh , that paper lead to anti - lock brakes ?\n",
      "Grad F: Oh , I could tell you had a rough day , man !\nGrad D: Nah .\nGrad A: What ?\nGrad D: I love that story .\nGrad F: Yeah , it 's a great story .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad F: Oh my goodness .\nGrad C: Oh yeah , um , Liz suggested we could start off by uh , doing the digits all at the same time .\nGrad A: What ?\nGrad D: All at the same time . I don't know if {disfmarker} I would get distracted and confused , probably .\nProfessor E: e\nGrad A: Really ? Do we have to like , synchronize ?\n",
      "Professor E: Well , I think you 're supposed to {disfmarker} OK . We can do this .\nGrad F: Are you being silly ?\nGrad D: Oh wait do we have t\nProfessor E: Everybody 's got different digits ,\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor E: right ?\nGrad D: Yeah , do we have to time them at the same time or just overlapping {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Uh .\nGrad A: You 're kidding .\nGrad C: No , no , just {disfmarker} just start whenever you want .\nProfessor E: No .\nGrad A: And any rate ?\nProfessor E: e yeah , the\n",
      "Grad F: Alright .\nProfessor E: Well , they {disfmarker} they have s they have the close talking microphones for each of us ,\nGrad A: Yeah , that 's true .\nProfessor E: so {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: yeah , there 's separate channels .\nGrad F: Alright .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: So when I say\nGrad F: Just plug one ear .\nGrad A: You lose .\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad F: OK , bye ! That was a great meeting !\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad D: Alright .\n",
      "Grad F: So - {vocalsound} Now , uh , why ?\nGrad C: Just to save time .\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad C: Does matter for them .\nGrad A: Are we gonna start all our meetings out that way from now on ?\nProfessor E: No .\nGrad A: Oh . Too bad . I kinda like it .\nGrad F: Well , could we ?\nGrad D: It 's strangely satisfying .\nGrad A: Yeah . It 's a ritual .\nGrad D: Are we to r Just to make sure I know what 's going on , we 're talking about Robert 's thesis proposal today ? Is that\n",
      "Grad C: We could .\nGrad D: true ?\nGrad A: We are ?\nGrad C: We might .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad D: Is {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Well , you {disfmarker} you had s you said there were two things that you might wanna do . One was rehearse your i i talk {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Oh yes , and that too .\n",
      "Grad C: Not {disfmarker} not rehearse , I mean , I have just not spent any time on it , so I can show you what I 've got , get your input on it , and maybe some suggestions , that would be great . And the same is true for the proposal . I will have time to do some revision and some additional stuff on various airplanes and trains . So , um . I don't know how much of a chance you had to actually read it\nGrad A: I haven't looked at it\nGrad C: because {disfmarker}\nGrad A: yet ,\nGrad C: but you could always send me comments per electronic mail\n",
      "Grad A: but I will .\nGrad C: and they will be incorporated .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad C: Um , {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} It basically says , well \" this is construal \" , and then it continues to say that one could potentially build a probabilistic relational model that has some general , domain - general rules how things are construed , and then the idea is to use ontology , situation , user , and discourse model to instantiate elements in the classes of the probabilistic relational model {pause} to do some inferences in terms of what is being construed as what\nGrad A: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: in our beloved tourism domain . But , with a focus on\nGrad A: Can I s Sorry .\nGrad F: I think I need a copy of this , yes .\nGrad C: Hmm ?\nGrad D: OK , we can {disfmarker} we can {disfmarker} we can pass {disfmarker} pass my , uh {disfmarker} we can pass my extra copy around .\nGrad F: I is there an extra copy around ?\nGrad A: Uh . He sent it . OK . You can keep it .\nGrad D: Er , actually , my only copy , now that I think about it ,\nGrad F: Alrigh\n",
      "Grad A: OK .\nGrad C: Um , I don't {disfmarker} I , uh {disfmarker} I don't need it .\nGrad D: but . I already read half of it , so it 's OK .\nGrad C: Um , actually this is the {disfmarker} the newest version after your comments ,\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad C: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah , no I s I s I see this has got the castle in it , and stuff like that .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yep .\n",
      "Grad D: Oh , maybe the version I didn't have that I {disfmarker} mine {disfmarker} the w did the one you sent on the email have the {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad D: That was the most recent one ?\nProfessor E: Uh , yeah , I think so .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad D: OK . Cuz I read halfway but I didn't see a castle thing .\nGrad A: I 'm changing this . Just so you know .\nGrad C: Yeah ,\nGrad A: But , anyway .\n",
      "Grad C: um , if you would have checked your email you may have received a note from Yees asking you to send me the , uh , up - to - d\nGrad A: Oh . Oh , sorry . OK . Sorry .\nGrad C: current formalism thing that you presented .\nGrad A: OK . I will . OK . OK . OK .\nGrad C: But for this it doesn't matter . But , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: We can talk about it later . That 's not even ready , so . Um , OK ! Go on t to , uh , whatever .\nGrad C: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: I 'm making changes . \" Don't worry about that . \" OK . Mmm - mmm . Oh ! OK , sorry , go on .\nGrad C: And any type of comment whether it 's a spelling or a syntax or\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: readability {disfmarker}\nGrad F: There 's only one \" S \" in \" interesting \" .\nGrad C: Hmm ?\nGrad F: There 's only one \" S \" in \" interesting \" . On page five .\nGrad C: Interesting .\nGrad A: Anyway . And y uh , email any time , but most usefully before {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: The twenty - first I 'm assuming .\nGrad A: The twenty - first ?\nGrad C: Twenty - ninth .\nProfessor E: No , this is the twenty - first .\nGrad F: That 's {disfmarker}\nGrad D: What , today 's the twenty - first ?\nGrad F: Well , better hurry up then !\nGrad D: Oh , man !\nGrad A: Before the twenty - ninth ,\nGrad C: The twenty - ninth .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad C: That 's when I 'm meeting with Wolfgang Wahlster to sell him this idea .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . OK .\n",
      "Grad C: OK ? Then I 'm also going to present a little talk at EML , about what we have done here and so of course , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm gonna start out with this slide , so the most relevant aspects of our stay here , and um , then I 'm asking them to imagine that they 're standing somewhere in Heidelberg and someone asks them in the morning {disfmarker} The Cave Forty - Five is a {disfmarker} is a well - known discotheque which is certainly not open at that {disfmarker} that time . And so\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: they 're supposed to imagine that , you know , do they think the person wants to go there , or just know where it is ? Uh , which is probably not , uh , the case in that discotheque example , or in the Bavaria example , you just want to know where it is . And so forth . So basically we can make a point that here is ontological knowledge but if it 's nine {disfmarker} nine PM in the evening then the discotheque question would be , for example , one that might ask for directions instead of just location . Um , {vocalsound} and so forth and so forth . That 's sort of motivating it . Then what have we done so far ? We had our little bit of , um , um , SmartKom stuff , that we did , um , everth\n",
      "Grad F: Oh , you 've got the parser done . Sorry .\nGrad C: That 's the {disfmarker} not the construction parser . That 's the , uh , tablet - based parser ,\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad A: Easy parser .\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad C: and the generation outputter .\nGrad D: Halfway done ? Yeah .\nGrad C: That 's done .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nGrad C: You have to change those strategies ,\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad C: right ? That 's , ten words ?\nGrad D: Yeah . Well , i it , you know . Maybe twelve .\n",
      "Grad C: Twelve ? OK . And , um , and Fey is doing the synthesis stuff as we speak . That 's all about that . Then I 'm going to talk about the data , you know these things about {disfmarker} uh , actually I have an example , probably . Two s Can you hear that ? Or should I turn the l volume on .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: I could hear it .\nGrad D: I I can hear it .\nGrad F: I heard it .\nGrad D: They might not hear it in the {disfmarker} well maybe they will . I don't know .\n",
      "Grad A: This was an actual , um , subject ? Ah .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Sounds like Fey .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad C: But they 're {disfmarker} they 're mimicking the synthesis when they speak to the computer ,\nGrad F: Oh , OK .\nGrad C: the {disfmarker} you can observe that all the time , they 're trying to match their prosody onto the machine .\nGrad F: Oh really . Interesting . Oh , it 's pretty slow .\nGrad C: Yeah , you have to {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Wh\nGrad F: The system breaking .\n",
      "Grad A: What is the s ? Oh !\n",
      "Grad C: OK . And so forth and so forth . Um , I will talk about our problems with the rephrasing , and how we solved it , and some preliminary observations , also , um , I 'm not gonna put in the figures from Liz , but I thought it would interesting to , uh , um , point out that it 's basically the same . Um , as in every human - human telephone conversation , and the human - computer telephone conversation is of course quite d quite different from , uh , some first , uh , observations . Then sort of feed you back to our original problem cuz , uh {disfmarker} how to get there , what actually is happening there today , and then maybe talk about the big picture here , e tell a little bit {disfmarker} as much as I {pause} can about the NTL story . I {disfmarker} I wa I do wanna , um {disfmarker} I 'm not quite sure about this , whether I should put this in , um , that , you know , you have these two sort of different ideas that are {disfmarker} or two different camps of people envisioning how language understanding works , and then , {vocalsound} talk a bit about the embodied and simulation approach favored here and as a prelude , I 'll talk about monkeys in Italy . And , um , Srini was gonna send me some slides but he didn't do it , so from {disfmarker} but I have the paper , I can make a resume of that , and then I stole an X - schema from one of your talks I think .\n",
      "Grad A: Oh . I was like , \" where 'd you get that ? \" OK .\nGrad F: Yeah , that looks familiar .\nGrad A: \" Looks familiar . \"\nGrad C: I think that 's Bergen , Chang , something , or the other .\nGrad A: Uh .\nProfessor E: Whatever .\nGrad A: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Um , and that 's {disfmarker} now I 'm not going to bring that . So that 's basically what I have , so far , and the rest is for airplanes . So X - schemas , then , I would like to do {disfmarker} talk about the construction aspect and then at the end about our Bayes - net .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: End of story . Anything I forgot that we should mention ? Oh , maybe the FMRI stuff . Should I mention the fact that , um , we 're also actually started {disfmarker} going to start to look at people 's brains in a more direct way ?\nProfessor E: You certainly can . I mean I y I you know , I don't know {disfmarker}\nGrad A: You might just wanna like , tack that on , as a comment , to something .\nProfessor E: Right , um .\nGrad C: \" Future activities \" something .\n",
      "Professor E: Well , the time to mention it , if you mention it , is when you talk about mirror neurons , then you should talk about the more recent stuff , about the kicking\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: and , you know , the {disfmarker} yeah , yeah {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} that the plan is to see to what extent the {disfmarker} you 'll get the same phenomena with stories about this , so that {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: and that we 're planning to do this , um , which , we are . So that 's one thing . Um . Depends . I mean , there is a , um , whole language learning story , OK ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: which , uh , actually , i i even on your five - layer slide , you {disfmarker} you 've got an old one that {disfmarker} that leaves that off .\nGrad C: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I do have it here .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Um . And , of course , you know , the {disfmarker} the big picture is this bit .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: But , you know , it would {disfmarker} But I don't think I {disfmarker} I am capable of {disfmarker} of do pulling this off and doing justice to the matter . I mean , there is interesting stuff in her terms of how language works , so the emergentism story would be nice to be {disfmarker} you know , it would be nice to tell people how {disfmarker} what 's happening there , plus how the , uh , language learning stuff works ,\nProfessor E: OK , so , so anyway , I {disfmarker} I agree that 's not central .\n",
      "Grad C: but {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: What you might wanna do is , um , and may not , but you might wanna {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} rip off a bunch of the slides on the anal there {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} we 've got various i generations of slides that show language analysis , and matching to the underlying image schemas , and , um , how the construction and simulation {disfmarker} that ho that whole th\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , th that {disfmarker} that 's c that comes up to the X - schema slide ,\nGrad A: OK , right .\nGrad C: so basically I 'm gonna steal that from Nancy ,\nGrad A: OK , I can give you a more recent {disfmarker} if you want {disfmarker}\nGrad C: one of Nancy 's st\nGrad A: well , that might have enough .\nGrad C: Uh , I {disfmarker} yeah , but I also have stuff you {disfmarker} trash you left over ,\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad C: your quals and your triple - AI .\n",
      "Professor E: The quals w the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the quals slides would be fine .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: You could get it out of there , or some\nGrad A: Which I can even email you then , you know , like there probably was a little {disfmarker} few changes , not a big deal . Yeah , you could steal anything you want , I don't care . Which you 've already done , obviously . So . Sorry\nGrad C: Well , I {disfmarker} I don't feel bad about it at all\nGrad A: No , you shouldn't .\n",
      "Grad C: because {disfmarker} because you are on the , uh , title .\nGrad A: Oh , that 's great , that 's great .\nGrad C: I mean on the {disfmarker} the , you 're {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} see , that 's you .\nGrad A: I 'm glad to see propagation .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nGrad C: Hmm ? Propagated ?\nGrad A: Yes .\nGrad C: I mean I might even mention that this work you 're doing is sort of also with the MPI in Leipzig , so .\n",
      "Grad A: It 's {disfmarker} it 's certainly related , um ,\nGrad C: Because , um , EML is building up a huge thing in Leipzig .\nGrad A: might wanna say . Is it ?\nGrad C: So it {disfmarker} It 's on biocomputation . Would {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah , it 's different , this is the , uh , DNA building , or someth the double helix building .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Kind of a different level of analysis .\n",
      "Professor E: The {disfmarker} yeah it was {disfmarker} it turns out that if {disfmarker} if you have multiple billions of dollars , y you can do all sorts of weird things , and {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Wait , they 're building a building in the shape of DNA ,\nGrad A: What ?\nGrad D: is that what you said ?\nProfessor E: Roughly , yeah .\nGrad F: Oh ! Oh boy !\nGrad A: O\nProfessor E: Including cr cross - bridges ,\nGrad A: What ?\nProfessor E: and\nGrad A: Oh my god !\nGrad F: That 's brilliant ! Hhh .\n",
      "Professor E: You d you really {disfmarker} now I I spent {disfmarker} the last time I was there I spent maybe two hours hearing this story which is , um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Of what\nGrad D: Y You definitely wanna w don't wanna waste that money on research ,\nGrad A: the building ?\nGrad D: you know ?\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad D: That 's horrible .\nProfessor E: Right . Well , no , no , y i there 's infinite money . See you th you th you then fill it with researchers .\n",
      "Grad A: And give them more money . They just want a fun place for them to {disfmarker} to work .\nProfessor E: Right . Right .\nGrad F: And everybody gets a trampoline in their office .\nGrad C: Well , the {disfmarker} the offices are actually a little {disfmarker} the , think of um , ramps , coming out of the double helix and then you have these half - domes , glass half - domes , and the offices are in {disfmarker} in the glass half - dome .\nGrad A: Really ?\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Alright , let 's stop talking about this .\n",
      "Grad A: Does it exist yet ?\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad A: They are w now building it ?\nGrad C: Uh , as a model .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad C: But I th\n",
      "Professor E: So , yeah , I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's a good point , th th that the date , the , uh , a lot of the {disfmarker} this is interacting with , uh , people in Italy but also definitely the people in Leipzig and the {disfmarker} the b the combination of the biology and the Leipzig connection might be interesting to these guys , yeah . OK . OK . Anyway ! Enough of that , let 's talk about your thesis proposal .\nGrad C: Yeah , if somebody has something to say .\nProfessor E: Yep .\n",
      "Grad F: You might want to , uh , double - check the spellings of the authors ' names on your references , you had a few , uh , misspells in your slides , there . Like I believe you had \" Jackendorf \" .\nProfessor E: Um .\nGrad F: Uh , unless there 's a person called \" Jackendorf \" ,\nGrad A: On that one ?\nProfessor E: No , no , no .\nGrad F: yeah . But that 's the only thing I noticed in there .\nGrad A: In the presentation ?\nGrad F: In the presentation .\n",
      "Grad A: I 'll probably {disfmarker} I c might have {disfmarker} I 'll probably have comments for you separately , not important . Anyway .\nGrad C: Oh , in the presentation here .\nGrad A: Yeah , that 's what he was talking about .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad C: I was ac actually worried about bibtex . Uh . No , that 's quite possible . That 's copy and paste from something .\nProfessor E: So I did note i i it looks like the , uh , metaphor didn't get in yet .\nGrad C: Uh , it did , there is a reference to Srini {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Well , s reference is one thing , the question is is there any place {disfmarker} Oh , did you put in something about ,\nGrad A: Metonymy and metaphor here , right ?\nProfessor E: uh , the individual , we 'd talked about putting in something about people had , uh {disfmarker} Oh yeah , OK . Good . I see where you have it . So the top of the second {disfmarker} of pa page two you have a sentence .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: But , what I meant is , I think even before you give this , to Wahlster , uh , you should , unless you put it in the text , and I don't think it 's there yet , about {disfmarker} we talked about is the , um , scalability that you get by , um , combining the constructions with the general construal mechanism . Is that in there ?\nGrad C: Yeah , mmm . Um .\nProfessor E: Uh , OK , so where {disfmarker} where is it , cuz I 'll have to take a look .\n",
      "Grad C: Um , but I {disfmarker} I did not focus on that aspect but , um {disfmarker} Ehhh , um , it 's just underneath , uh , um , that reference to metaphor . So it 's the last paragraph before two . So on page two , um , the main focus {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Uh , OK . Yeah .\nGrad C: But that 's really {disfmarker}\nGrad A: That 's not about that , is it ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: No , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it s says it but it doesn't say {disfmarker} it doesn't {disfmarker} it d it d\nGrad C: Why .\nProfessor E: yeah , it doesn't give the punch line .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Cuz let me tell the gang what I think the punch line is , because it 's actually important , which is , that , the constructions , that , uh , Nancy and Keith and friends are doing , uh , are , in a way , quite general but cover only base cases . And to make them apply to metaphorical cases and metonymic cases and all those things , requires this additional mechanism , of construal . And the punch line is , he claimed , that if you do this right , you can get essentially orthogonality , that if you introduce a new construction at {disfmarker} at the base level , it should com uh , interact with all the metonymies and metaphors so that all of the projections of it also should work .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: And , similarly , if you introduce a new metaphor , it should then uh , compose with all of the constructions .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor E: And it {disfmarker} to the extent that that 's true then {disfmarker} then it 's a big win over anything that exists .\nGrad D: So does that mean instead of having tons and tons of rules in your context - free grammar you just have these base constructs and then a general mechanism for coercing them .\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: Mm - hmm . So that , you know , for example , uh , in the metaphor case , that you have a kind of direct idea of a source , path , and goal and any metaphorical one {disfmarker} and abstract goals and all that sort of stuff {comment} {disfmarker} you can do the same grammar .\nGrad D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor E: And it is the same grammar . But , um , the trick is that the {disfmarker} the way the construction 's written it requires that the object of the preposition for example be a container . Well , \" trouble \" isn't a container , but it gets constr construed as a c container .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor E: Et cetera . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's where this , um ,\nGrad D: So with construal you don't have to have a construction for every possible thing that can fill the rule .\n",
      "Professor E: Right . So 's it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's a very big deal , i i in this framework , and the thesis proposal as it stands doesn't , um , I don't think , say that as clearly as it could .\nGrad C: No , it doesn't say it at all . No . Even though {disfmarker} {vocalsound} One could argue what {disfmarker} if there are basic cases , even . I mean , it seems like nothing is context - free .\n",
      "Professor E: Oh , nothing is context - free , but there are basic cases . That is , um , there are physical containers , there are physical paths , there {disfmarker} you know , et cetera .\nGrad C: But \" walked into the cafe and ordered a drink , \" and \" walked into the cafe and broke his nose , \" that 's sort of {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Oh , it doesn't mean that they 're unambiguous .\nGrad C: Mmm . Yeah .\nProfessor E: I mean , a cafe can be construed as a container , or it can be construed you know as {disfmarker} as a obstacle ,\n",
      "Grad F: Uh - huh .\nProfessor E: or as some physical object . So there are multiple construals . And in fact that 's part of what has to be done . This is why there 's this interaction between the analysis and the construal .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm . Yep .\nProfessor E: The b the {disfmarker} the double arrow .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor E: So , uh , yeah , I mean , it doesn't magically make ambiguity go away .\nGrad C: No .\n",
      "Professor E: But it does say that , uh , if you walked into the cafe and broke your nose , then you are construing the cafe as an obstacle .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: And if that 's not consistent with other things , then you 've gotta reject that reading .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad D: You con {disfmarker} you conditioned me with your first sentence , and so I thought , \" Why would he walk into the cafe and then somehow break his nose ? \" uh , oh , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: He slipped on the wet floor .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: You don't find that usage , uh {disfmarker} uh , I checked for it in the Brown national corpus .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: The \" walk into it \" never really means , w as in walked smack {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: But \" run into \" does .\nGrad C: Yeah , but , y y if you find \" walked smacked into the cafe \" or \" slammed into the wall \" {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah , no , but \" run into \" does .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Because you will find \" run into , \" uh ,\n",
      "Grad D: Cars run into telephone poles all the time .\nProfessor E: well , or \" into the cafe \" for that m\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor E: you know {disfmarker} \" His car ran into the cafe . \"\nGrad C: Yeah . Or you can run into an old friend , or run .\nProfessor E: Well , you can \" run into \" in that sense too .\nGrad A: Yeah , \" run into \" might even be more impact sense than , you know , container sense .\nProfessor E: But , uh , Right .\nGrad F: Depends .\n",
      "Professor E: But {disfmarker} Like , \" run into an old friend \" , it probably needs its own construction . I mean , uh , you know , George would have I 'm sure some exa complicated ex reason why it really was an instance of something else\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: and maybe it is , but , um , there are idioms and my guess is that 's one of them , but , um {disfmarker} I don't know .\nGrad A: All contact . I mean , there there 's contact that doesn't {disfmarker} social contact , whatever . I mean .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh .\nGrad F: Sudden surprising contact ,\nProfessor E: Yeah , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} Right . i Yeah , it 's more {disfmarker}\nGrad F: right ?\nGrad A: Forceful .\nGrad F: But of course , no , i i I mean it has a life of its own . It 's sort of partially inspired by the spatial {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Well , this is this motivated {disfmarker} but yeah {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: oh yeah , mo for sure , motivated , but then you can't parse on motivated .\nGrad F: Yeah . Yeah . Right .\nProfessor E: Uh ,\nGrad A: Too bad .\nGrad D: You should get a T - shirt that says that .\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad A: There 's {disfmarker} there 's lots of things you could make T - shirts out of , but , uh , this has gotten {disfmarker} I mean wh We don't need the words to that .\nGrad C: Pro - probably not your marks in the kitchen , today .\n",
      "Grad A: What ? Oh , no no no no no no no no no , we 're not going there .\nGrad C: Not {disfmarker} not your marks .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor E: OK , so , um ,\nGrad F: In other news .\nProfessor E: anything else you want to ask us about the thesis proposal , you got {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Well ,\nProfessor E: We could look at a particular thing and give you feedback on it .\n",
      "Grad C: Well there {disfmarker} actually {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} i what would have been really nice is to find an example for all of this , uh , from our domain . So maybe if we w if we can make one up {pause} now , that would be c incredibly helpful .\nGrad A: So , w where it should illustrate\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad A: uh {disfmarker} wh when you say all this , do you mean , like , I don't know , the related work stuff ,\nGrad C: How {disfmarker}\nGrad A: as well as , mappings ?\n",
      "Grad C: w Well we have , for example , a canonical use of something\nProfessor E: Right {disfmarker} right {disfmarker} r\nGrad C: and y it 's , you know , we have some constructions and then it 's construed as something , and then we {disfmarker} we may get the same constructions with a metaphorical use that 's also relevant to the {disfmarker} to the domain .\nProfessor E: OK , f let 's {disfmarker} let 's suppose you use \" in \" and \" on \" . I mean , that 's what you started with .\n",
      "Grad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: So \" in the bus \" and \" on the bus , \" um , that 's actually a little tricky in English because to some extent they 're synonyms . OK .\nGrad C: I had two hours w with George on this , so it ,\nProfessor E: OK , what did he say .\nGrad A: Did you ?\nGrad C: um {disfmarker} Um .\nGrad A: Join the club .\nProfessor E: Right . Oh , h that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: \" On the bus \" is a m is a metaphorical metonymy that relates some meta path metaphorically and you 're on {disfmarker} on that path and th w I mean it 's {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} there 's a platform notion ,\nProfessor E: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I believe all that , it 's just {disfmarker}\nGrad C: right ? \" he 's on the {disfmarker} standing on the bus waving to me . \"\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: But th the regular as we speak \" J Johno was on the bus to New York , \"\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: um , uh , he 's {disfmarker} that 's , uh , what did I call it here , the transportation schema , something ,\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: where you can be on the first flight , on the second flight ,\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: and you can be , you know , on the wagon .\n",
      "Professor E: Right . So {disfmarker} so that {disfmarker} that may or may not be what you {disfmarker} what you want to do . I mean you could do something much simpler\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: like \" under the bus , \" or something , where {disfmarker}\nGrad C: But it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} unfortunately , this is not really something a tourist would ever say . So .\nProfessor E: Well , unless he was repairing it or something ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: but yeah .\nGrad C: But um .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , but OK .\nGrad C: So in terms of the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I see .\nGrad C: We had {disfmarker} we had {disfmarker} initially we 'd {disfmarker} started discussing the \" out of film . \"\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad C: And there 's a lot of \" out of \" analysis , so , um ,\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad C: could we capture that with a different construal of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , it 's a little {disfmarker} it 's , uh {disfmarker} we 've thought about it before , uh t uh {disfmarker} to use the examples in other papers , and it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little complicated . Cuz you 're like , it 's a state of {disfmarker} there 's resource ,\nGrad F: Out of {disfmarker} out of film , in particular .\nGrad A: right , and like , what is film ,\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: the state {disfmarker} you know . You 're out of the state of having film , right ? and somehow film is standing for the re the resour the state of having some resource is just labeled as that resource .\nGrad F: It 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean .\nGrad F: yeah , I mean ,\nGrad A: It 's a little bit {disfmarker}\nGrad F: but {disfmarker} and plus the fact that there 's also s I mean , can you say , like , \" The film ran out \" you know , or , maybe you could say something like \" The film is out \"\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , is film the trajector ?\nGrad F: so like the {disfmarker} the film went away from where it should be , namely with you , or something , right ? You know . The {disfmarker} the film {disfmarker} the film is gone , right ? Um , I never really knew what was going on , I mean I {disfmarker} I find it sort of a little bit farfetched to say that {disfmarker} that \" I 'm out of film \" means that I have left the state of having film or something like that ,\n",
      "Grad A: It 's weird . That {disfmarker}\nGrad F: but .\nGrad A: Or , \" having \" is also , um , associated with location ,\nProfessor E: Uh .\nGrad A: right ?\nGrad F: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: so if the film left , you know {disfmarker} state is being near film .\nGrad C: So running {disfmarker} running out of something is different from being out of somewhere .\nProfessor E: Or being out of something as , uh {disfmarker} as well . So \" running out of it \" definitely has a process aspect to it .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm . But that 's from run , yeah .\nProfessor E: So ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: b that 's OK ,\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: I mean {disfmarker} b but the difference\nGrad C: Is the d the final state of running out of something is being out of it .\nProfessor E: is {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah . So th\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad F: Yeah . You got there .\nGrad A: That part is fine .\nGrad F: You got to out of it .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: But , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Hmm !\nProfessor E: Yeah , so {disfmarker} so nob so no one has in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} of the , uh , professional linguists ,\nGrad A: Uh .\nProfessor E: they haven't {disfmarker} there was this whole thesis on \" out of \" .\nGrad A: There was ? Who ?\nProfessor E: Well , there {disfmarker} I thought {disfmarker} or there was a paper on it .\nGrad F: Out .\nProfessor E: Huh ?\n",
      "Grad F: There was one on {disfmarker} on \" out \" or \" out of \" ?\nProfessor E: There was a Well , it may be just \" out \" . Yeah .\nGrad F: OK .\nProfessor E: I think there was \" over \" but there was also a paper on \" out \" .\nGrad F: Yeah , Lind - Susan Lindner ,\nGrad A: Oh , yeah , you 're right . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Or something .\nGrad F: right ? The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} \" the syrup spread out \" ?\nProfessor E: Yeah , and all that sort of stuff .\n",
      "Grad F: That kind of thing ?\nGrad A: Yeah . And undoubtably there 's been reams of work about it in cognitive linguistics ,\nProfessor E: OK . But anyway . We 're not gonna do that between now and next week .\nGrad A: but . Yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: OK . So , um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: It 's not one of the y it 's more straightforward ones {disfmarker} forward ones to defend , so you probably don't want to use it for the purposes {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "Grad A: th these are {disfmarker} you 're addressing like , computational linguists ,\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad A: right . Or {disfmarker} are you ?\nGrad C: There 's gonna be four computational linguists ,\nGrad A: OK . But more emphasis on the computational ? Or emphasis on the linguist ?\nGrad C: computer it 's {disfmarker} More {disfmarker} there 's going to be the {disfmarker} just four computational linguists , by coincidence , but the rest is , whatever , biocomputing people and physicists .\nGrad A: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor E: No no no , but not for your talk . I 'm - we 're worrying about the th the thes\nGrad C: Oh , the thesis !\nGrad A: Oh , I meant this ,\nProfessor E: it 's just for one guy .\nGrad C: That 's {disfmarker} that 's computa should be very computational ,\nGrad A: you know , like {disfmarker} OK . So I would try to {disfmarker} I would stay away from one that involves weird construal stuff .\nGrad C: and , uh , someth\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Right .\n",
      "Grad A: You know , it 's an obvious one {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Totally weird stuff .\nGrad C: I mean the {disfmarker} the old bakery example might be nice ,\nGrad A: but , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: \" Is there a bakery around here \" . So if you c we really just construe it as a {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad A: Around ?\nGrad C: No , it 's the bakery itself {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh .\n",
      "Grad C: is it a building ? uh , that you want to go to ? or is it something to eat that you want to buy ?\nGrad A: Oh , oh yeah . Yeah , we 've thought about that . Right . Right .\nGrad C: And then {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Nnn . No . What ? \" Bakery \" can't be something you 're gonna eat .\nProfessor E: No , no . The question is d do you wanna {disfmarker} do you wanna construe {disfmarker} do you wanna constr - strue\nGrad F: Sh\nGrad D: It 's a speech - act .\n",
      "Professor E: r Exactly . It 's because do you wanna c do you want to view the bakery as a p a place that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} i for example , if {disfmarker} y\nGrad A: Yeah . Where you can get baked goods .\nProfessor E: Well th well , that 's one . You want to buy something . But the other is , uh , yo you might have smelled a smell and are just curious about whether there 'd be a bakery in the neighborhood , or ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: um , pfff you know , you wonder how people here make their living , and {disfmarker} there 're all sorts of reasons why you might be asking about the existence of a bakery\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: that doesn't mean , \" I want to buy some baked goods . \"\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor E: But {vocalsound} um , those are interesting examples but it 's not clear that they 're mainly construal examples .\nGrad A: So it 's a lot of pragmatics , there , that\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad C: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor E: There 's all sorts of stuff going on .\nGrad A: might be beyond what you want to do .\nProfessor E: So let 's {disfmarker} so let 's think about this from the point of view of construal . So let 's first do a {disfmarker} So the metonymy thing is probably the easiest and a and actually the {disfmarker} Though , the one you have isn't quite {disfmarker}\nGrad A: You mean the s You mean \" the steak wants to pay \" ?\n",
      "Professor E: N no not that one , that 's {disfmarker} that 's a {disfmarker} the sort of background . This is the t uh , page five .\nGrad D: About Plato and the book ?\nGrad A: Oh .\nProfessor E: No .\nGrad A: Um .\nGrad C: No .\nGrad A: How much does it cost ?\nProfessor E: Just beyond that .\nGrad F: Onward .\nGrad C: Where is the castle ?\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad F: A castle .\nGrad C: How old is it ? How much does it cost ?\nGrad D: Oh .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: To go in , that 's like {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Two hundred million dollars .\nProfessor E: Right . It 's not for sale . Uh . So\nGrad F: Yeah , I think that 's a good example , actually .\nGrad C: S\nGrad A: Yeah , that 's good . u\nGrad C: But as Nancy just su suggested it 's probably ellipticus .\nGrad A: Ellipsis .\nGrad C: Huh .\n",
      "Grad A: Like , \" it \" doesn't refer to \" thing , \" it refers to acti you know , j thing standing for activ most relevant activity for a tourist {disfmarker} you could think of it that way , but .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Well , shoot , isn't that {disfmarker} I mean , that 's what {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Well , I mean , my argument here is {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's the same thing as \" Plato 's on the top shelf , \"\n",
      "Grad F: figuring that out is what this is about .\nGrad A: Yeah , yeah , no , I I agree .\nGrad C: I 'm con you know , th that you can refer to a book of Plato by using \" Plato , \"\nGrad A: Yeah . No no , I {disfmarker} I 'm agreeing that this is a good , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: and you can refer back to it , and so you can {disfmarker} Castles have {disfmarker} as tourist sites , have admission fees , so you can say \" Where is the castle , how much does it cost ? \" Um . \" How far is it from here ? \"\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: So , You 're also not referring to the width of the object , or so ,\nGrad A: Hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: www .\nGrad F: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor E: OK . Can we think of a nice metaphorical use of \" where \" in the tourist 's domain ? Um .\nGrad F: Hmm .\nProfessor E: So you know it 's {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you can sometimes use \" where \" f for \" when \"\nGrad F: O\nProfessor E: in the sense of , you know , um , where {disfmarker} wh where {disfmarker} where was , um , \" where was Heidelberg , um , in the Thirty Years ' War ? \" Or something .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Uh , yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: You know , or some such thing . Um .\nGrad F: Like what side were they on ,\nGrad A: What ?\nProfessor E: Yeah . Essentially , yeah .\nGrad F: or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad A: OK . I was like , \" Huh ? It was here . \" Like {disfmarker} {comment} Um .\nProfessor E: But anyway th so there are {disfmarker} there are cases like that . Um ,\nGrad A: Ah ! Or like its developmental state or something like that , you could {disfmarker} I guess you could get that .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Um .\n",
      "Professor E: Um .\nGrad F: I mean , there 's also things like {disfmarker} I mean , s um , I guess I could ask something like \" Where can I find out about blah - blah - blah \" in a sort of {disfmarker} doesn't nece I don't necessarily have to care about the spatial location , just give me a phone number\nProfessor E: Yeah . There certainly is that , yeah .\nGrad F: and I 'll call them or something like that ?\nProfessor E: You know , \" Where could I learn its opening hours , \" or something .\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: But that 's not metaphorical .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nProfessor E: It 's another {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: So we 're thinking about , um , or we could also think about , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Well , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: How about \" I 'm in a hurry \" ?\nGrad A: State .\n",
      "Professor E: It i But it 's a state {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} the issue is , is that {disfmarker} it may be just a usage ,\nGrad F: Hmm ?\nProfessor E: you know , that it 's not particularly metaphorical , I don't know .\nGrad F: Mmm .\nGrad A: Right . So you want a more exotic one {disfmarker} version of that .\nGrad F: Oh .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah , right .\nGrad A: I 'm really into {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Ah ! How about I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} you know , \" I 'm in {disfmarker} I 'm in a state of exhaustion \" ?\nGrad A: Do you really say that ?\nProfessor E: or something like that , which a tourist w Huh ?\nGrad A: Would you really say that ?\nProfessor E: A st uh , well , you can certainly say , um , you know , \" I 'm in overload . \" Tu - stur tourists will often say that .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad D: I I 'm really into art .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , I was gonna say , like {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Oh , you can do that ? Really ? Of course that 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's definitely a , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Fixed .\nGrad A: A fixed expression , yeah .\nProfessor E: that 's a , uh {disfmarker} Right . But . {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: There 're too {disfmarker} there 're all sorts of fixed expressions I don't {disfmarker} like uh \" I 'm out of sorts now ! \"\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad A: Like {comment} \" I 'm in trouble ! \"\nGrad C: Well I {disfmarker} when , uh {disfmarker} just f u the data that I 've looked at so far that rec\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: I mean , there 's tons of cases for polysemy .\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad C: So , you know , mak re making reference to buildings as institutions , as containers , as build\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad C: you know , whatever . Um , so ib in mus for example , in museums , you know , as a building or as something where pictures hang versus , you know , ev something that puts on exhibits , so forth .\nProfessor E: Right . As an institution ,\nGrad C: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: yeah .\nGrad C: Um .\nGrad A: Why don't you want to use any of those ?\nGrad C: Hmm ?\n",
      "Grad A: So y you don't wanna use one that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah , well {disfmarker} No , but this {disfmarker} that 's what I have , you know , started doing .\nProfessor E: The castle {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} that old castle one is sort of {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Metonymy , polysemy .\nGrad D: I love Van Gogh .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad A: \" I wanna go see the Van Gogh . \"\nProfessor E: Ah !\nGrad F: Oh geez .\n",
      "Grad A: Anyway , I 'm sorry .\nGrad C: But I think the argument should be {disfmarker} uh , can be made that , you know , despite the fact that this is not the most met metaphorical domain , because people interacting with HTI systems try to be straightforward and less lyrical ,\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: construal still is , uh , you know , completely , um , key in terms of finding out any of these things , so , um .\n",
      "Professor E: Right . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a reasonable point , that it {disfmarker} in this domain you 're gonna get less metaphor and more metonymy .\nGrad C: We , uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker} I looked {disfmarker} with a student I looked at the entire database that we have on Heidelberg for cases of metonymy .\nProfessor E: And polysemy , and stuff like that . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Hardly anything . So not even in descriptions w did we find anything , um , relevant .\nGrad F: I have to go .\nProfessor E: Alright . Yeah .\nGrad C: But OK this is just something we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll see , um ,\nProfessor E: Right . s See you .\nGrad C: and deal with .\nProfessor E: OK , well . I guess if anybody has additional suggestions ,\nGrad C: I mean maybe the \" where is something \" question as a whole , you know , can be construed as , u i locational versus instructional request .\nProfessor E: w Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: So , if we 're not talk about the lexic\nGrad A: Location versus what ?\nGrad C: instruction .\nGrad A: Instruction . Oh , directions ? Yeah .\nProfessor E: Sure .\nGrad A: Oh , I thought that was {disfmarker} definitely treated as an example of construal .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Right ?\nGrad C: Yeah but then you 're not on the lexical level , that 's sort of one level higher .\nGrad A: Oh , you want a lexical example .\nGrad C: But I don't need it .\nProfessor E: Well , you might want both .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Also it would be nice to get {disfmarker} ultimately to get a nice mental space example ,\nProfessor E: We {disfmarker}\nGrad C: so , even temporal references are {disfmarker} just in the spatial domain are rare .\nProfessor E: But it 's {disfmarker} it 's easy to make up plausible ones .\nGrad C: When {disfmarker} when you 're getting information on objects .\nProfessor E: You know .\nGrad C: So , I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Right , you know {disfmarker} you know , where r Yeah . What color was this in {disfmarker} in in the nain nineteenth century .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: What was this p instead of {disfmarker} wh what {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} how was this painted , what color was this painted , um , was this alleyway open .\nGrad C: Yeah , maybe we can include that also in our second , uh , data run .\nProfessor E: Uh .\n",
      "Grad C: We c we can show people pictures of objects and then have then ask the system about the objects and engage in conversation on the history and the art and the architecture and so forth .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm . OK . So why don't we plan to give you feedback electronically . Wish you a good trip . All success .\nGrad D: For some reason when you said \" feedback electronically \" I thought of that {disfmarker} you ever see the Simpsons where they 're {disfmarker} like the family 's got the buzzers and they buzz each other when they don't like what the other one is saying ?\n"
    ],
    "length": 12909,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 40,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "After a brief review of the last meeting, Industrial Designer, User Interface and Marketing gave their presentations respectively on components, interface design and user requirements of the new remote control. Considering Marketing's advice and the budget, the team temporarily decided on a double-curved rubber remote control with an ergonomic joystick and an LCD screen menu display. Users could program their remote controls on the LCD screen as well as using software on the computer. Power would be supplied to the remote control by standard batteries. The beeping sound of the location function could be customized. Project Manager informed the team of the plan for the next meeting. Industrial Designer and User Interface would present a prototype of the remote control. The team would also make a product evaluation.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright , yeah . {gap} crack on {gap} . Okay so we'll start off with a quick overview of the minutes . I think to sum up the last meeting , would be to say um the requirements that we've um set out . Those are we were going to go for what seemed to be a fairly minimal design based on uh a small joystick , {vocalsound} L_C_D_ and a couple of other buttons for navigation um with power being I suppose one of the main single purpose buttons . Um we were also going to use {gap} novelty of being able to locate the remote control again via a small transmitter with any luck , the idea to try and separate us and also because of the minimal design um looks like we'll be able to be fairly adventurous in the actual physical shape of our remote control with any luck . Um that pretty much sums up the last one . So we'll just crack on , um like to maybe start with the Industrial Designer if it's possible .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh uh okay .\nProject Manager: Um uh the con today is the concep today .\nIndustrial Designer: I'll just {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: This uh meeting is the conceptual design phase and is um {disfmarker} Sorry about this . {gap} . And is to cover things like um what the parts might be made of , um , can we uh outsource these from elsewhere , um will we have to construct any items ourselves ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Uh I have a presentation {gap} I just saved it in the uh the folder .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , okay well I'll just uh I'll load it up then . Um {vocalsound} . Which one do y\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nProject Manager: Oh , interface concept ?\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's me .\nProject Manager: That's you . We've got trend watching , that's you .\nIndustrial Designer: It's uh {disfmarker} Components design .\nProject Manager: Components design .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Alright . {vocalsound} So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh . The case uh le that's what I wrote first of all , could be plastic our plastic . Uh but later on {gap} we found out that um it can be rubber as well , or titanium or even wood . So uh we decide what it's gonna be . Probably plastic . Uh we need the infra-red transmitter . Get that off the shelf . Uh joystick we'll probably if we're gonna use it , um could be plastic w or rubber even as well . Um {vocalsound} if you go on to the next slide . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If you go on to f uh findings , it's like two or three slides down .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Right . So , this is what I found we can use . Uh three different types of batteries . Um can either use a hand dynamo , or the kinetic type ones , you know that they use in watches , or else uh a solar powered one .\nProject Manager: Okay . Now ,\nIndustrial Designer: Um .\nProject Manager: the kinetic one , we've {disfmarker} 'cause that's the ones where like you {disfmarker} the movement causes it .\nMarketing: Cost is {disfmarker} Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um the bat uh the battery for a a watch wouldn't require a lot of power , would be my one query .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Is a kinetic one going to be able to supply enough power ?\nUser Interface: There's also a watch moves around a great deal more .\nProject Manager: Do you think ?\nIndustrial Designer: Uh .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProject Manager: W\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , I don't think it would . Um . And solar cells , I dunno about that .\nMarketing: {gap} yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh . We should probably just use conventional batteries . Um , just like in usual remote controls .\nProject Manager: Which I suppose as well would allow us to go off the shelf again , you'd say ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um . Yeah . Um . {vocalsound} And these are three different types of {disfmarker} or two different types {disfmarker} three different types of shapes you can have . Uh one is a flat one , and then more original ones are single curved one or one with a double curved . Um {vocalsound} the materials are tha there as you can see , but uh you can't have a titanium one for a double curved ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Titanium , the really strong metal , titanium ?\nIndustrial Designer: uh which would be {disfmarker} Yeah ,\n",
      "Marketing: Is it not also it's expensive ?\nIndustrial Designer: and light . Uh , i think so as well , yeah .\nProject Manager: Um . Um .\nIndustrial Designer: They make mountain bikes out of that , don't they . So it's really light as well .\nProject Manager: Curious . Um , I don't know if you'd be able to off the top of your head or not , the single curved and double curved , would you be able to give an example ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um . {vocalsound} T yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um could you maybe draw something ? I you don't doesn't have to be perfect , it's just 'cause I'm not quite sure if I understand the difference between the two .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh . Well for a curved , well I was thinking to {disfmarker} f for to sit in your {disfmarker} the palm of your hand . Uh maybe like this , with the uh joy pad here . Joystick here . And maybe um an okay button around here , so that the thumb can uh use it quite easily . Um I don't exactly {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Double curved . It probably means {disfmarker} this is probably double curved . Uh whereas a single curved would be like that . I guess . Or not necessarily .\nProject Manager: So it might literally just be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Two curves {gap} .\nProject Manager: okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah like that . Whereas this is two curves . Um {vocalsound} so I guess that's what they mean by uh double curve .\nProject Manager: Alright .\nIndustrial Designer: Um which obviously {disfmarker} it looks better than the single curve , but uh you can't have it in titanium , which is uh a nice material . {vocalsound} Uh\nProject Manager: Mm .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: and for the buttons , um it can have the scroll wheel which they use in mouses for com P_C_s . Uh but um it requires a more expensive chip to use , and if you wanna use L_C_D_ it's even more expensive . So you have to decide , there's trade-offs there . Um {vocalsound} if you want the buttons to be {disfmarker} oh yeah , if you have a double curve uh control and it's rubber , then you have these rubber buttons as well . But {vocalsound} you're gonna ha I reckon you're gonna have to have uh key a number keypad anyway for the amount of channels these days . You wouldn't want to just have to scroll through all the channels to get to the one you want . You wanna enter just the number of it , if you know it . So um I reckon we're gonna have to have a number keypad anyway . Do you think ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , that was definitely something we can talk about . Um so you've got a little bit about the the chip that we might require as well ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . So , depends where gonna spend the money if you want the f fancy L_C_D_ display .\nProject Manager: Um , do you have any idea so far , like when we're saying that we'd need an advanced chip for an L_C_D_ , does that in shoot the cost up by a drastic amount ? Or ?\nMarketing: Need an advanced chip for the L_C_D_ . Is that {disfmarker} did I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Well I think compared to say just pressing {gap} buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep .\nMarketing: Advanced , like three eight six advance .\nProject Manager: {gap} if you press a button that sends a certain transmission through the infra-red , whereas I think if we're controlling the L_C_D_ we definitely require a much more powerful chip . Just compared to the chip you would use for pushing buttons I think is the the point being made .\nMarketing: Okay . Okay , sure .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: If I've not over-stepped . Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah i\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , um should I go on , or go back ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Mm , if we only have twelve Pounds fifty , twelve Euros , not even twelve Pounds . Twelve Euros , what's that , like eight pounds or something like that , nine Pounds ?\nProject Manager: Well we'd also be relying on the um the bulk buying in producement and such . I assume .\nMarketing: Okay , that's good point .\nProject Manager: We have to look into the costs of those . So , sorry .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh the previous slides just explain what's in the internal components of the uh remote control . If you go to the one before that uh so it just says what it does , translate the key press into an infra-red signal and this is received by the T_V_ . Uh the chip just needs to detect the signal or detect the key press and then uh it'll send it to the tr the amplifier .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: And uh then the next slide just shows how the uh copper wires uh interact with the buttons , the rubber buttons , uh to uh get sent to the chip . So that's just how the control works inside . Um we have to decide on what buttons we're gonna use .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} .\nProject Manager: Um . {gap} . So in the information that you've been supplied , how feasible would you say that the idea of using an L_C_D_ looks ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} I think we can do it if {vocalsound} uh we use conventional batteries and not have solar cells or kinetic . Um and then maybe use single curved uh case . Because we might need it to be curved for the uh thumb to use the joyst joystick easily . Um and then you'll need the advanced chip obviously for the L_C_D_ .\nProject Manager: Um I mean that sounds like quite a good requirement to me . Um conventional battery would seem to make sense .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Um I'm not sure if there's any cost differences between single and double curved and I'm {disfmarker} I don't know about anybody else , but plastic or rubber as a traditional form of casing would seem to be a good way forward ? {gap} .\nUser Interface: Mm . Um I'm actually gonna be bold and go oo go straight for rubber um for reasons I'll go into uh in more detail .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: I also have a preference for rubber .\nProject Manager: Okay , well um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Based on my research .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , well will we move on to user interface , and {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nProject Manager: yeah ? Um sorry ,\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: as long as {disfmarker} were you ? Yeah . Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Yep I'm finished .\nProject Manager: Um {gap} and d d d interface concept .\nUser Interface: Yep . Now I'm gonna have to work between the uh the slides and the uh {vocalsound} and the white board\nProject Manager: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: 'cause I actually I have some fairly concrete things this time . Uh um I was given a an H_T_M_L_ file giving um various ideas from uh from other previous remote control designs , and pretty much decided to just dump them all . I wasn't very impressed by them and they didn't seem to re uh nothing I saw seemed to meet the sorts of design specifications that we're going for today . Um so what I ra rather than looking at other remotes , uh ra oomp be better to simply look at the human hand . Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've already decided on , um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is wherever it needs to be already . Um so uh next slide , if you please . Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick , two function buttons and the L_C_D_ , just keep it paired down to the absolute minimum . I don't actually think we need the um the numeric keypad because if you m because one of the menus that we could have available um {vocalsound} v via via the L_C_D_ is one where you scroll through channels , so if there's something f {vocalsound} and be bear in mind since this isn't meant to work for um\n",
      "Marketing: {gap} digital .\nUser Interface: f f f {vocalsound} for di for digital or um or for {vocalsound} or for cable , whatever ,\nIndustrial Designer: Ah , okay .\n",
      "User Interface: you're basically looking at four or five terrestrial channels , and then um your V_C_ uh and then the channel through your V_C_R_ and or D_V_D_ player . And or um {gap} box . So it's not {vocalsound} I'm not really excessively concerned about that . You must have two two modes , basic mode , where um the joystick's uh left right {vocalsound} left right for channels , up down for volume , um and the uh uh and the menu mode for uh further functions . Um now the reason I was particularly interested in using rubber for this is that if we're going to have a highly ergonomic design , um it needs to be ergonomic for left or right handed people . Um , so you\n",
      "Project Manager: Can I just jump in slightly there ?\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate , then .\nUser Interface: Yes , absolutely .\nProject Manager: {gap} okay .\n",
      "User Interface: Um , basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um , I would say , the the whole thing articulated at two points , so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place . And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to it\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm .\nUser Interface: that it should be , you know , soft to touch and can be moved around all nice . Um okay\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide .\nProject Manager: Um , yeah . Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well ,\nUser Interface: Okay .\nProject Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say , I guess .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , 'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this . The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position , um {gap} hol uh holding the remote , the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb . Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just below that so that it could be switched around for uh left or right handed users . So . You then have a grip section that can be more or less the same irrespective of handedness . You just have big {vocalsound} two big buttons that cover most of the area so it can {vocalsound} in the upper part , one for the four finger , one for the middle finger . Um , and that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Is this the joystick ?\nUser Interface: Th {vocalsound} this part here is the joystick . This would be the actual grip . Probably where you'd want to have the battery as well .\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "User Interface: That would be probably the bulkiest part . And you then have , at the uh at the bottom , the L_C_D_ , and this would need to be articulated as well . And basically I'd want this to rest here , right at the base of the wrist . So it would fit just nicely in the hand . And again , this part could be rotated , so it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} so so that it can be adjusted to either left or right handed user . Um {disfmarker} So the t uh the top function button in basic mode would be the on off switch and menu mode would be the enter button . And then the bottom function buttons switches between between modes . Um now programming it {vocalsound} actually thi this is one thing I've found with um the replacement remote control . Programming them can be a right pain . So I thought th the simplest way around that would be to have um a cable to connect it to the computer some {vocalsound} some fair iv {gap} fairly fairly simple software on the computer just so that you {disfmarker} on your {gap} computer just so that you could um pr {vocalsound} program it at a rather {vocalsound} in a rather more comfortable interface . And you could download programs for it from uh for uh T_V_s from all sort of main manufacturers . Um though you {disfmarker} i it would be necessary to have uh have a m uh have a {vocalsound} ha have a mode for programming it without the computer , uh just in case there are there are still people left out there who don't have them yet . Um . But uh . Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: That's that's my idea .\nProject Manager: Okay . {vocalsound} Excellent , right . Um {vocalsound} uh .\nMarketing: Mm . 'Kay .\nProject Manager: File open .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} We go .\nProject Manager: Trend watching .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Okay . {vocalsound} So uh to gather my research , two basic methods . We compared uh whether people want the remote control to do a lot of stuff or they want it to look cool . And then we we research uh fashion trends in Europe , what's what's the new black ,\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: you know , as it goes . {vocalsound} Next slide please . Uh we found , in order of importance , people want the remote control to look cool more than they want it to to be cool . As in they want it to do a lot of good s they want it to look like it does a lot , and if it does do a lot that's a bonus , but they don't care so much , you know . {vocalsound} They want it to be {disfmarker} that's sounds a bit like a contradiction . Technology technical {disfmarker} technologically innovative . People want it to be that , but s still they care more about the way it looks than what it does . So like the interface is really important . {vocalsound} And easy to use , it it just so happens that uh from the second point to the third point is twice as important {disfmarker} I mean the second point is twice as important as the third point . People want it {disfmarker} I is it has to be cooler than easy to use , you know , if it has the newest features , even if it's difficult to use , {gap} prefer it to have the newest features . And if it's easy to use that's a bonus . {vocalsound} The fashion , now this is seems a bit odd to me , but fruit and veg is the new is the new black for furniture , for clothes , for shoes . How that relates to a remote control I don't know .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: But I I see {vocalsound} I come on to that in the next in the next slide . Spongy . I've als I've been saying everything's the new black . Well spongy's the new black as well . So we have the choice between rubber and plastic . If it's the type of rubber that you can squeeze , you know , it's spongy , then {disfmarker} can I skip the rest ?\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh yeah , I forgot to mention that . The uh rubber material is the type of stress ball material , not just normal rubber .\n",
      "Marketing: Okay . Okay , so\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Forgot to say that .\nMarketing: kinda spongy material .\nProject Manager: Okay .\n",
      "Marketing: So um so my personal opinion ? {vocalsound} Um we want something fancy and techni technologically innovative , obviously . But what we what we need is something that looks like it's from the future that looks cool , that's that's different , you know , that's {disfmarker} everyone has a white remote control , black remote control , you need something cool . Like , titanium is cool but it's expensive . And maybe it's a bit of overkill for a remote control . Um now the fruit and veg options , either we we go in that direction or we stay totally away from it . Um {vocalsound} I mean the research did come up with fruit and veg , so maybe it is important for {disfmarker} it's the up to the interface guy . So if we stay away from it , s you know stay away from it , but if we're gonna go along with it then it doesn't necessarily have to be like an apple or something like that , or a kiwi fruit . It could be something like , I say potato peeler but I'm sure you guys have a have a much cooler idea than I do . So I think cool is the key . {vocalsound} Few questions about a spongy remote control . I've never seen one before . I've seen plastic remote controls . I think maybe they were {disfmarker} I don't know , back in the day when they first came up with remote controls , they had a reason for it being\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Marketing: sturdy , you know . For being strong and sturdy . So um if we want something strong and sturdy , I say stay with plastic or titanium , but if we go with spongy , we can stress that you can drop this as many times as you want , it doesn't matter , it's spongy material , it's not gonna break , you know . I just don't know how the L_E_D_ and the lights are gonna fit into a spongy material because it's not gonna be completely squeezable . So how do things fit it ? And if we are gonna use spongy , we can say it's long lasting , you know it's damage resistant and stuff like that , so . So just to summarise , people want stuff that's cool , that's that looks like it's cool , and if it is cool then that's a bonus {gap} doesn't have to be um people like fruit and veg . We can either go down that alley or stay totally away from it . People like spongy material . If we're gonna use spongy material we have to think of how practical it is , and how we can further promote that idea . And also , this was this year . So , things change all the time , every year you know they they always talk about this year , this is the new black . Well next year something else is gonna be the new black\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: and we're stuck with last year's fruit and veg type stuff .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: 'Kay . That's me .\nProject Manager: Well , um I would say that the most you could probably hope for is gaining a year's lead on most people anyway . You always have to bring out new designs , so if we can get next year then that's possibly a good place to start anyway . Um .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Seems like a a lot of the components could be off the shelf , so {disfmarker} I don't exactly what cost would be incurred . Um I can see your point about the number keypad , but I've {disfmarker} I would say that we can probably incorporate it into the menu system if you need to do traversal of a large number of channels .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: My feeling would be that even if at a later date this was to be taking control of um {gap} boxes as well um having the use of the L_C_D_ and the joystick would probably allow you to manipulate enough channel numbers for you to be {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , actually {gap} if you've got a lot of channels , the number keypad can be quite annoying as well , becau {vocalsound} {gap} it's you know if you're trying to remember what uh , you know , what number's the discovery channel or whatever . It's just irritating .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} That's a good point .\nUser Interface: But if you h {vocalsound} but but but if you have a me but if you have a menu structure , then you can sub-group them .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: You can incorporate names into the menu . Okay .\nUser Interface: So you {vocalsound} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Even news , music . Like they do on uh sky digital kinda .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So what it looks like to me is we'll use a large number of standard components , um , say something like um lithium ion battery , the kind that you find in most um small hand held devices now . Um {disfmarker} Looks like we {gap} going for a double curved design . Um I don't know what cost implications there are in that . Um , looks like we're pretty much decided on some kind of flexible rubber . Though I'd have to say {vocalsound} depending on how flexible it is , we might need to have some kind of inner frame .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , I I would say definitely , I mean {vocalsound} I mean I mean the the idea of having it sort of articulated i th there would be basically two points of articulation . W um one below and one above the m the uh the main sort of grip . So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Do you think there's any way we could maybe remove the articulation ? I can see why it looks appealing , but it could be a weak point in um the structure , do you think ?\nUser Interface: Mm {gap} .\nProject Manager: That would be a worry of mine .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: If you're going with the fruit and veg thing , {vocalsound} looks like a banana .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I d I don't thi I don't think that it would be a {vocalsound} a structural weakness ,\nMarketing: {gap} . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: F if you wanna design it that way . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: I mean if you have a firm s sub-structure , you can then incorporate articulation into that . If you then have a sort of outer skin of mm flexible , spongy rubber then you have something that is you know very much you know organic , and I think would look rather co I mean {vocalsound} mi {vocalsound} rather cool . I mean my drawing there doesn't doesn't do it justice , it makes it {vocalsound} makes it look more a little bit more like a vibrator than a than a uh than a remote control ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: but uh .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , we won't add that functionality .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Okay . Course not .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: However , one interesting point is , I don't know how serious you were there , but we {disfmarker} if we take some of the ideas {gap} why don't we make the damn thing yellow to incorporate the des the colour of the logo ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Sure , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: I dunno .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: It's an {disfmarker} certainly a different colour from your average um {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Make it harder to lose , as well .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nProject Manager: That's true . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Sure .\nProject Manager: Was there anything in your research {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} The noise for when you lose the banana , um f yeah , for when you lose the remote control , {vocalsound} it could be like a a monkey noise or something like that , rather than a standard beep beep .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Y you know , you lose the monkey {disfmarker} the banana ,\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} monkey {vocalsound} .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: y {vocalsound} you lose the banana , you press a button , and you hear like monkey screams or something like that to direct you towards the banana .\nUser Interface: I th uh I mean if it {disfmarker} I think that's something that could perhaps be programmable , though maybe have monkey as default . Um .\n",
      "Marketing: S oh , I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control . Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s , you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nMarketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature , I I don't know .\n",
      "User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote , and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturer\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: and try the different codes that\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nUser Interface: come under that manufacturer's name 'til you find the right one .\nMarketing: That's because televisions , they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap} .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , that's right .\nMarketing: Okay .\nUser Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that . But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option , then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing .\nProject Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer , we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes , maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of the company on the L_C_D_\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: and then they maybe look up different names of um {vocalsound} different actual units that have been produced .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Or we have the remote control just go through them until it's like does this do the correct function , and such .\nMarketing: Is it is it actually a book of names to digits , or is it like a few pages ?\nUser Interface: Um booklet . {vocalsound} Some pages .\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} I was just thinking , if we were to store this information , some type of mapping . This person probably need to use this feature like once , you know , when you first buy the remote control , or whenever they buy a new television , so\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Doesn't have to be used very often\nMarketing: once every s\nProject Manager: that's right , yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah ,\nUser Interface: Yeah . But it's a but it's a nuisance .\nMarketing: and it's {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: And it's a nuisance very close to the to um to actually purchasing it , so it's something that you're likely to be thinking about .\nMarketing: Mm .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} If you {disfmarker} if there's w i if there's one in the shop that's {vocalsound} that says it can avoid much of that nuisance , you might be favourably inclined towards it . Um mm .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Okay , this {disfmarker} {gap} just to give us a rough idea of what we're meant to be doing for the next stage .\nMarketing: Mm .\n",
      "Project Manager: I'm pretty sure that you got that anyway . This is the conceptual one . Um . I think we've come up {disfmarker} I think we've covered everything we need to here . Um I think we've decided on what , you know , decided on standard items for most of um rubber and such , so we're now looking at the detailed design and what we need to be doing for the next meeting . Um {disfmarker} So for example , um I'll just start at the top , you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage 'cause it'll be hard not to , obviously . Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay . Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress . Um {disfmarker} The user interface design , They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there , whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate , do you think ?\n",
      "User Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layout ?\n",
      "User Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it , um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made , I would say . Um but then again , the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television , and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate . So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it .\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm-hmm , that's very true . {vocalsound} Um . Okay . Um got product evaluation as well . Um .\nMarketing: Yeah , you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others . How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation , doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah , no , it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model to test with .\n",
      "Marketing: Oh , that's the {disfmarker} okay , sure sure sure .\nProject Manager: Um so it'd be a case of do you think that just bringing users in to have them test it out , uh maybe putting a certain number of products into the field in certain places which I suppose is quite similar .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Or just kind of hitting the streets and you know saying this is a new remote control , what do you think of the look of it ? Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay , sure . At this stage we still have no no target audience or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: I think the target audience is pretty much anybody under the age of say maybe sixty or something ludicrous .\nMarketing: 'Kay .\nProject Manager: Um {vocalsound} the reason I'm saying that is we're just looking at a a replacement remote control , something that's stylish , so maybe you're even just maybe you're narrowing down your target audience simply by saying\nMarketing: And it's stylish .\nProject Manager: if they're buying it that often or they're maybe looking to replace something then , they've got a bit of free cash , so that puts them potentially in the younger age bracket .\nMarketing: Mm-hmm .\n",
      "Project Manager: Maybe even single , just for the reasons of um uh excess cash flow .\nMarketing: Mm .\nProject Manager: Although of course I mean at twenty five Euros , I don't think we're looking at charging the earth for the uh device .\nMarketing: Yep . Okay .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Think that's well within the normal bracket . Um your idea of the U_S_B_ would I think would largely depend on the cost . U_S_B_'s definitely one of the cheapest interfaces out there , but it might push the cost of the overall unit up 'cause it would require not just the connection but the chip for communicating with the rest of the system . That one might have to be based on {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Programmable memory as well .\nIndustrial Designer: The U_S_B_ for which ?\nMarketing: For the remote control .\n",
      "Project Manager: The the idea was that maybe it could connect up for um allowing a software interface on the P_C_ for a larger programming\nIndustrial Designer: Oh right , okay .\nProject Manager: due to the fact that we've gone for such a nice , easy minimal design , normally . Um .\nMarketing: We've w definitely talking some type of {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But didn't they just say it's just for T_V_ , or are we gonna {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's just for T_V_ , but for\nMarketing: Different .\n",
      "Project Manager: programming it to use your T_V_ , you might hook it up to the P_C_ .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay , yeah .\nProject Manager: I'm not sure , but I'm thinking maybe that the additional cost of the U_S_B_ might be prohibitive .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: We don't know unless {disfmarker} it would make sense to .\nUser Interface: Yeah ,\nMarketing: But you're gonna need some type of flash memory or something .\nUser Interface: I mean it's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Well something that doesn't {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Marketing: you wouldn't have to redo the whole thing once the batteries are changed , you know , once you turn off the power .\nUser Interface: Yeah . The other thing I mean it I mean it would need to ha {vocalsound} it would need to have um some sort of on board memory anyway .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Um f {vocalsound} for one {vocalsound} for one thing because I do think that the menu system should be um uh I mean although you know , it's not going to be terribly complicated if it's just controlling one device , the menu system ought to be um o ought to be customisable and uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Different languages , uh different skins and stuff like that .\nProject Manager: Mm-hmm . W\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . How uh how uh how you want say the um the the menu structure for flicking through channels if you've got lots of channels . That sort of thing .\n",
      "Marketing: Sure . {vocalsound} I if it was customisable as in different languages and stuff , that does open {disfmarker} it is supposed to be international , right ? So .\nProject Manager: It would make sense to . I would say to .\nMarketing: It would make sense if you could {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Um and we'd better be careful about the time as well . We've already had the five minute warning ,\nMarketing: Okay .\n",
      "Project Manager: so . Um . I would say yeah . International would make sense . Um you're gonna look at product evaluation . I'm I'd better start writing up a hell of a lot of crap . Um you're gonna look a bit more at the kind of the physical make up you say .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Um looks like we're gonna need a maybe a kind of prototype in clay . {vocalsound} Uh we'll see how that goes . Um .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Are we going to be supplied with the clay is what I want to know .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So um\n",
      "User Interface: Where is the clay ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: do {disfmarker} I think we've got an idea of where we need to go for the next meeting , would you say ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap} they're going with the fashion thing , like the design , spongy rubber .\nMarketing: The fruit and veg . This one .\nUser Interface: Mm . {vocalsound} I th I think I would largely want to actually steer clear of the whole sort of fruit and veg thing .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , I would s that would be my my feeling .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Bu {vocalsound} but um but the spongy idea I like . I like it a lot .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} We seem to have quite a general consensus that the idea of the the r rubber could be quite {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: I {gap} having it i having it sort of br bright yellow I think that's quite a good idea , though maybe we could have options for colours as well . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: {gap} and again this has the advantage of being harder to lose .\nMarketing: Sure . I mean we are trying to promote a remote control , but we wanna keep the company brand as well ,\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah .\nMarketing: so .\n"
    ],
    "length": 9410,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 41,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "Firstly, User Interface and Industrial Designer introduced the prototype of remote control based on the previous discussion of its form, material and the colour. The prototype was a pretty simple design with an obvious company logo on it and two buttons in the middle. Secondly, Marketing designed an evaluation test under the guidance of the advantages of its main features discussed before and the team gave one to seven points to each feature of the product to see if the prototype would meet the original requirements and goals. Lastly, the team calculated the cost of the prototype and found that it was not easy to land on the exact budget. After trying to incorporate as many functions as the team could for a while, the team decided to use regular chips, normal batteries and a combination of cheap materials and fancy ones, which made the budget under control.",
    "docs": [
      "Project Manager: Okay , welcome to the detailed design meeting . Again , I'm gonna take minutes . Oh , we're gonna have a prototype presentation first .\nUser Interface: {gap}\nProject Manager: Uh , who's gonna give the prototype presentation ? You two guys ? Okay . Go ahead .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . {vocalsound} {gap}\nUser Interface: {gap} .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {gap} . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {gap} coffee .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: 'Kay , we've made a prototype . Um , we've got uh {vocalsound} uh our aspects from the last meeting . Uh , especially we looked at the form , material and the colour . Um , we've uh drawn here the p prototype . The logo is uh is uh {vocalsound} is pretty uh {vocalsound} obvious to see on the on the remote control ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: but it is necessary when you want to build your uh company f to a level higher . Um , {vocalsound} our interface elements , there are shown in the in the drawing . Maybe you can uh point them uh {disfmarker} The functions .\nUser Interface: Uh , well the uh {disfmarker} all the functions are discussed uh {disfmarker} I think the most of the functions are uh uh obvious . Uh , it's a little bit . Uh , power button . Uh then the the the nine uh channels .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: Uh the volume uh uh at the side , and the other side is the programmes . And then we had uh just uh two buttons , we place them in the middle , uh the menu , and for the teletext\nProject Manager: Oh no , the the the mute button misses now .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I thought that was th\nMarketing: Alright , I {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Do y do you {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Oh , the mute button .\nProject Manager: did we want to have a m mute button ?\nIndustrial Designer: But uh that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: It's uh here then , in the middle .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Huh .\nMarketing: Alright , and uh you gotta point out which is the volume um uh button and which is the programme button .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , um\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well , yeah mo uh mo\nIndustrial Designer: we've disc\nUser Interface: Yeah , well most of them are right-handed .\nIndustrial Designer: Most of the users\nMarketing: Yeah , but you you gotta make it clear on the {disfmarker} on {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah well , I don't have time in uh anymore on the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , y there there will be a p a little a little P_ on that and a little uh {disfmarker} yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , and a and a triangle on that .\nUser Interface: Oh yeah , just progr programme above , I think .\nMarketing: Yes . Next to that I kinda miss a zero actually .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Wait , there's {disfmarker} was one thing I wanted to ask .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh , there are different ways for remote controls to uh {vocalsound} do uh like\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: uh d I call it teens and twenties . Uh , y th th th the two numbers .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: All n no , that's um {vocalsound} kinda dependent on the television .\nUser Interface: Yeah , true , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: It's a television . Yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , but do we have {disfmarker} do we need extra buttons ,\nUser Interface: Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} for example some uh some have to {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Uh I think so .\nMarketing: I think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , yes , you have you have a lot of standard buttons that has to be uh on it , uh th with the one and a double uh uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , I think you should add {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: Zero ?\n",
      "Marketing: A cross , or whatever . Yeah , line .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but you don't you don't actually need them ,\nUser Interface: May maybe here ?\nIndustrial Designer: yes .\nProject Manager: becau b l a lot of remote controls work that y when y that you when you fir you push the one first , then you have a couple of seconds {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . And then a second .\nMarketing: No , that's dependent on the television .\nProject Manager: No , I don't think so .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes , you have televisions , then you have to , you know , you have to uh press {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I do know so .\nUser Interface: Is it depending on television ?\nProject Manager: Nah , I don't think so really ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: because you have a {disfmarker} I know some remote controls that don't have these buttons , but you still can , know , obviously you can still select the twenty {disfmarker} uh a number in the twenty or in the ten .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , but but a lot {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yes , but uh uh no uh remote control nowadays are um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they come with the television . Or actually , the other way around .\nProject Manager: No , I think {disfmarker} uh I really think it's n\nMarketing: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: because you can {disfmarker} when when you put a button on it with like one and uh then a dash , it's the same thing as when you just push the one ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: because it i it first gives you the functionality of that that uh separate button you also had to uh apply .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , but\nMarketing: Yeah , well {disfmarker} but su {vocalsound} If {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: some televisions don't accept uh that that {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , because that's i it's for television . It's exact the same thing .\nIndustrial Designer: No , no , but s\nMarketing: No no no . So some television respond differently . Look , if uh i i\n",
      "Project Manager: No , listen listen . When you push the button , the remote control gives a signal . I in th in the first place it gives a signal which it would also send when you put a separate button on it .\nMarketing: Yes . Yes , that's true .\nProject Manager: The one with dash , that signal gi and when y whe when you don't push another button on the remote control within five seconds , then the remote control gives a signal for channel one .\nUser Interface: Yeah . True .\nMarketing: No {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: I think it works that way , really .\n",
      "Marketing: No , it it it works uh if you haven't got uh a special button for it , uh if you push a one , then on your television there will appear a one and a a line , which is an empty space .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but it's exact the same {gap} that w would appear when you put a separate button {disfmarker} push a separate button .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , but some some old televisions uh you have to uh click on uh a special button , uh then you go to a a next level , you can push two buttons .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , but you don't underst uh you don't understand my point .\nMarketing: Yep . {vocalsound} True .\nProject Manager: I think it's exact the same thing when y\nIndustrial Designer: You want {disfmarker} Yes , but some television don't support it .\nProject Manager: No , but then they would a would also support that button , because it's the same thing .\nUser Interface: But the ex\n",
      "Project Manager: Listen , with {disfmarker} that that's that special but button {gap} you're talking about , eh ? That's just a signal to recei ju they send a t signal to the v tv T_V_ that they have to put a one in {disfmarker} on your screen and a dash , which you can pu so you can uh still put another number on it . When you don't have that separate button , and you push y one , it's exactly the same thing . Do y you {disfmarker} the remote control gives that same signal as it would give when you only had {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No ,\n",
      "Marketing: No , s some some televisions need the input first uh and and you c\nIndustrial Designer: a remote can {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes ,\nProject Manager: But you give the input .\nIndustrial Designer: so they need {disfmarker} no , they need {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: You push the one . That's the same thing as the button with the one and it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , that's not true .\nProject Manager: yes it it is .\nMarketing: It's simply not true . It's simply not true .\nProject Manager: Think about it .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No ,\nUser Interface: You uh you can wai when you push the one you can show on the telly a one and just a dash , and then wait uh two uh seconds or something {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: but uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And it's the same thing what happens and a g remote control gives another signal after five seconds that is just one .\nMarketing: No , remote control doesn't give signal after five seconds . Remote control is a stupid thing . If you push a button , it sends it immediately to to the television .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , that's true . Yeah , but I m uh but it's {disfmarker} I I know for sure that some televisions that w th th the remote control supplied , only ha has the c these buttons with a one and a dash and a two and a dash , but when you use a bu a n remote control that doesn't sport these buttons , it still works .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah , it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: But okay , we we'll impl\nMarketing: No , definitely not . Definitely not .\nUser Interface: We'll discuss them in the usability lab .\nProject Manager: No , we'll apply them then for now .\n",
      "User Interface: Uh eva evaluation .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: I don't know uh I don't know if if it's it's necessary .\nProject Manager: Yeah , app just apply them next to the zero , the one and the two .\nUser Interface: Yeah ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , I think so . Yeah , for now , if we don't know for sure whether {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: And the button for the SCART uh audio video uh external input .\nMarketing: Yes .\nUser Interface: Ach .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Uh , you can access that uh via zero , and then minus , I guess .\nProject Manager: okay . {vocalsound} What I said about uh the remote control sending another signal , that that might not be true ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: but I still think i it it {disfmarker} all T_V_s in some ways support it , I don't know . I think it's more c is m maybe we don't {disfmarker} uh we both don't really understand how it i how it really works ,\nIndustrial Designer: No , no .\n",
      "Project Manager: but I think there's more to in than wha than what you just said .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , remote control sends one signal at one button uh press .\nProject Manager: I do think that uh m T_V_s support mur multiple kind of remote controls . M\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , some {disfmarker} N some televisions when when you want to go further than uh ten {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Th won't work wi with uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No , you have to you have to uh give the television uh two or more signals .\nProject Manager: to have that special button .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: When you uh press one button , you give one signal . And the older televisions need more signals to go a level higher . But {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay , well we'll see .\nMarketing: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: When you make the technology that that it will uh give more signals , it could work , but {disfmarker} Just a basic idea of of of the most uh {disfmarker} most y most common uh and simple uh operations on the remote .\nMarketing: Okay . I kinda miss the docking station .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes . It's here on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: yeah , uh there's nothing {disfmarker} I think it's pretty basic ,\nIndustrial Designer: We came uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: the the {disfmarker} there's no fu\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: there's one there's one button ,\nMarketing: No nothing really trendy about it .\n",
      "User Interface: that's wha there's there's there's one function and that's n the one button when you want to find it .\nIndustrial Designer: But maybe we can maybe we can make the docking station uh uh a bit standard for for uh the other products we sell ,\nMarketing: The button .\nIndustrial Designer: because Real {vocalsound} Real Reaction sells more products than only remote controls . So maybe we can uh use the docking station , for example , uh M_P_ three players or or uh\nMarketing: Yep .\nIndustrial Designer: uh hearing devices .\nMarketing: I think that's very difficult , because of different shapes of uh uh devices .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes , but when you put that same volt voltages on it , you can put uh {disfmarker} when the when the when uh o the the the lowest part of it , when it's o the same as the other products , you can put it all on the same uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah , of course . Mm-hmm . Well it it got it {disfmarker} it has got to fit into the shape , of course .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , but we can make {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: The technology and the voltage can be the same . That's uh that's true . But uh i if you all make the m having a bottom like this , then they all fit .\nIndustrial Designer: No , we can make uh make the most lowest part all the same .\nMarketing: Yeah , that's true , but uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: When when the the recharger has a has a bit what points out , we can place all on top of it . Just have to be big enough for the biggest {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Yes , but uh I I g Shouldn't it fall then ? It {disfmarker} isn't going to fall down ? {vocalsound} That's a bit uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No , when you make it large enough no it it will not .\nMarketing: yeah , I think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But then it's a little bit {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , but if if {disfmarker} like this , I'll I'll point it out , if you got uh a a a base a base like this ,\nIndustrial Designer: But it's just an idea .\n",
      "Marketing: I won't draw it really . If you got a base which is uh as big as this {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But it's flat it's flat as as this , so we can p make all the products as flat as this .\nUser Interface: You can . But i i i it's backwards .\nMarketing: Yeah sure , but if you got if you got a tiny player , it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , but when you make uh uh a bit of big {gap} {disfmarker}\n",
      "User Interface: But it's it's backwards . It's leaning . It's leaning backwards , I think , in the in the docking station .\nMarketing: Yeah . Uh , wha what you could do if you uh {disfmarker} from the bottom {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: That's text . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: oh , right , help .\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh , you could make like a hole in it , you know , of uh {disfmarker} in in the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes , little holer {disfmarker} littler {disfmarker} Uh , little products go deeper in it .\nMarketing: Yeah . That i that is possible , yep .\nProject Manager: Well let's ha let's talk about the docking station later , because uh maybe we have we have to uh consider the docking station anyway , because we have some uh cost issues {vocalsound} still to come .\nMarketing: Yeah , sure , you're right .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . And uh uh\nMarketing: Oh .\nProject Manager: But we have to look n I don't know .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: the f the look and feel would be great on this uh remote control , because uh you always uh will uh pick up the remote control in the in the smallest uh area .\nMarketing: I don't like the colours . Mm-hmm .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Then your uh left thumb of uh {disfmarker} your right thumb is uh near the programme uh button , which is the most common used uh function , and all the other buttons are available for your uh thumb .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: So it's it's it's really good design .\nMarketing: Yeah . Alright .\nProject Manager: Yes . That's it ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes , uh on the side uh there will be a strip of rubber , and in the middle uh there is uh a hard uh a hard material , a bit hard plastic with a light uh behind it .\nMarketing: The light . Okay . And other lights ?\nProject Manager: I think added lights are gonna be a problem too .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , we can make also n neon lights on it , or or the buttons that can make uh light on it .\nMarketing: No , o on the on the front . Yeah , okay . Maybe the uh the logo .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: {gap} lights ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But , it will also uh uh use batteries ,\nMarketing: Yeah , why not ?\nIndustrial Designer: and do we want to {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Of course .\nProject Manager: Okay . For now , uh this is uh is good enough .\nUser Interface: Mm .\nProject Manager: Yeah , what was uh on the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: The {disfmarker} all the aspects of the interface buttons were uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , but in the {disfmarker} oh yeah , the colour , because we're gonna use uh one colour for the the plastic enclosure and one colour for the rubber , isn't it ? Then we're gonna do the buttons in the i are we're gonna have rubber buttons .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: And they're be a {disfmarker} {gap} they'll be in the same colour as the rubber on the side .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Uh , in the same colour as the side .\nUser Interface: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , I think I think that'll be good .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay . And I think we should use a a darker colour for the um plastic , and maybe some more m brighter and flashy stuff {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , maybe we can use on the on the lights on the side we can use uh uh multiple uh lights ,\nMarketing: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: so it will uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , we'll talk about the lights later . 'Cause I also don yeah ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Yep .\nProject Manager: it's depends on the costs and such . But uh , and we have to agree uh upon the exact colours ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: but may I dunno if that's important , but we'll talk about that later . Okay , for now this is this is okay .\nMarketing: We will .\nProject Manager: Um , the next p y you gonna give a presentation too ? Uh , I have to see the agenda .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nMarketing: Well , uh yeah , I I'm gonna do something right there , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {gap}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Detail design .\n",
      "Marketing: We gotta do that on the right {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the most {disfmarker} right-most screen , because the leftmost {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Evaluation criteria .\nMarketing: Yep , that's me .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nUser Interface: Okay .\nMarketing: Alright . I will be needing that image , so leave it please . Um {disfmarker} Go away . Right , we're gonna evaluate that design according to a few points . {vocalsound} Um , we g the four of us are going to do that um together .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: I wanna have a colour over here , come on . Right , the remote {vocalsound} is not ugly , a bit weird sentence , but the positive things has to be on the left , so I {vocalsound} said not ugly instead of ugly .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh , what would you say , we we gotta give points to uh to all of these to evaluate uh that design , and please forget the drawing skills of these guys .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Marketing: {vocalsound} The remote control is not ugly . How do you feel ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , I think four maybe would be appropriate , because it's {disfmarker} Yeah , maybe it really depends on taste . Uh , I mean it's kind of {gap} , our design . It's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yes .\nProject Manager: so if maybe a lot of people find it really ugly , you know , o other people find it really cool .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah .\nMarketing: Background colour .\nProject Manager: I don't know or uh I don't know how you {disfmarker} Casting . Yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I think I think the the fronts will give it a more uh uh uh less uglier uh side , because you can uh make it in your own {disfmarker}\nMarketing: How do you guys feel ? The different designs .\nIndustrial Designer: yes , you can make it in your own uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: more to your own personality or or house style .\nMarketing: Okay .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but we d we didn't {disfmarker} we're we're not planning to use fronts , I believe .\nMarketing: No , not not fronts , but different designs .\n",
      "Project Manager: With a colour a co a colours . Oh , okay .\nUser Interface: No , not fronts . Different designs . Different colours maybe , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: And that's still uh uh , yeah , is is uh is a little personal touch , I guess .\nProject Manager: Okay , but {disfmarker} Oh , maybe we should do three or something that w you know , our {disfmarker}\nMarketing: What ? Yeah , wha wha what would you uh guys uh think ? Personally .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Or forty . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: We can make it a one .\n",
      "Marketing: Personally . Yes , but what is it ?\nIndustrial Designer: I think two or three .\nUser Interface: Mm yeah .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Guido ?\nUser Interface: I agree .\nMarketing: Two or three .\nUser Interface: Um , I uh I go for the positive . So I go for two .\nMarketing: I was {disfmarker} I was thinking about three , so I guess\nProject Manager: Uh , I was thinking about four , so I think three is uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Okay , three .\n",
      "Marketing: three is uh a bit uh {disfmarker} oh , what am I doing ? I'll mark it . The remote control's uh uh that n makes uh zapping easy .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah well , let that {disfmarker} let's make that a one . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: Two . One . One .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Antek , you agree ?\nUser Interface: Okay yeah , I'll I'll agree .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: That's one thing for sure .\nMarketing: Yeah . You're not Antek .\n",
      "User Interface: I'm the I'm the usability , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I totally agree . The remote control the remote control's relevant buttons are prominently visible .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Yeah , two or a one , I guess .\nUser Interface: The {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's something we really put work into .\nMarketing: Yeah , I {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: It's all about the buttons .\n",
      "Marketing: I would say a one because uh every button is uh uh relevant . {vocalsound} And our {disfmarker} oh yeah , it's a b yeah . Yeah ? Alright . That's a one ? You agree ?\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: The remote control hasn't got too much redundant or unneeded buttons . I think we totally succeeded there .\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well maybe a two , because of the menu button or something .\nMarketing: Oh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , well menu {disfmarker} Yeah , maybe .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , that's true . That's true .\nProject Manager: And telete\nIndustrial Designer: Also , the the the buttons of the one , the two , the the digits ,\nProject Manager: Yeah , we don't know if the {disfmarker} uh they're necessary .\nIndustrial Designer: o they're used uh uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {gap} the the {disfmarker} yeah , m well , you d you've got a point .\nProject Manager: I think a two .\nUser Interface: Yeah , true . Yeah , I agree .\nIndustrial Designer: Can {disfmarker} yes , three , two .\n",
      "Project Manager: Came a long way , but not {disfmarker} we didn't not uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Two or three ?\nUser Interface: Mm two .\nIndustrial Designer: But you can't make a remote control without them ,\nMarketing: Two ? Antek .\nUser Interface: Because we got {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: because {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Nay that that that's true , that's true . They're definitely needed .\nProject Manager: No , w w it can also always be more simplistic , but two is {disfmarker}\nMarketing: So {disfmarker} we put it on a two ?\nProject Manager: yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: The remote control has got a really trendy look .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . A one .\nProject Manager: Yeah , uh a t I think a two .\nMarketing: Maarten .\nUser Interface: Well .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah yeah , y i it's hard to say from this picture .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: We {disfmarker} we've tried to make it uh the the best trendy look uh ever .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Ever , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Guido .\n",
      "Project Manager: But I do think it's more {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Uh , I will I will make it a three , because uh {disfmarker} yeah . I I th\nProject Manager: But I do think that it's more trendy than beautiful .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Yeah , uh I agree . I agree .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} So so I think maybe it has to score higher uh on this than on the {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah . True , yeah .\nMarketing: I was planning to give it a two , uh where I give the not ugly uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: A th a three .\nMarketing: oh , yeah , that's true . You agree on the two ?\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: I i uh when you compare to the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Great . Remote control hasn't got too much redundant or unneeded buttons .\nProject Manager: Uh uh what's the difference with {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Uh , I copied that one . Well , uh forget that .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nMarketing: Um {disfmarker} Go away . Remote control has got innovative technology implanted .\n",
      "User Interface: No . We're not {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No .\nIndustrial Designer: No .\nUser Interface: well , maybe the the the {disfmarker} on the side .\nIndustrial Designer: No , not L_C_D_ , so .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but we uh {disfmarker} {gap} you mean the rubber stuff ?\nMarketing: Yeah , and the light .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but we have t we have to talk about the lights uh .\nUser Interface: And the light maybe .\nIndustrial Designer: But that that's not innovative .\nUser Interface: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: And I don't u also it's also really not innovative ,\nIndustrial Designer: Lights lights are {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Well , I g\nProject Manager: it's more {disfmarker}\nMarketing: It's not {disfmarker} seven ?\nProject Manager: No , six . Or seven maybe , {vocalsound} yeah .\nUser Interface: Well , six . No , six .\nProject Manager: Or six .\nIndustrial Designer: Six .\nMarketing: Why uh why not a seven ?\nUser Interface: Six .\nProject Manager: Yeah , mine is seven .\nIndustrial Designer: Because we've tried to make it a little bit innovative ,\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: but it but it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Uh it's uh depends on the on the maybe {disfmarker}\nMarketing: How ?\nIndustrial Designer: With the lights it {disfmarker} it's it's kind of future {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: {gap} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No , I think I think actually it's a seven maybe , but there's nothing innovative about it .\nMarketing: Yeah , you think the lights are innovative ? Well , it's n true . Uh , I agree ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But still you can retrieve it when it's when it's gone , with the {disfmarker} with {disfmarker}\nMarketing: m but {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Innovative in generally or just f original for {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I'll {disfmarker} Yeah , you you didn't draw the docking station . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes . {vocalsound} The docking station is a is a little bit innovative .\nProject Manager: N no no ,\nMarketing: Yeah , it it's {disfmarker} I think I think with its {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: t {gap} .\nUser Interface: A docking station is innova\nProject Manager: Yeah , I mean the dock station , but but uh , I think the the docking station , {vocalsound} it's gonna be a {gap} kind of a problem .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: It's a part of the remote .\nMarketing: I think more m\nUser Interface: Okay . {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} And with the speaker on the {disfmarker} there's also a speaker .\nProject Manager: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: Uh that {disfmarker} that's n\nProject Manager: Well , let's leave it open for uh for us later to see what , because we have to reevaluate anyway . Well I i {gap} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nProject Manager: No ?\nMarketing: No uh , well , the agenda says evaluate now , so I think we {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Okay , for now it's a six or a seven uh , sev\nMarketing: It's it's a six .\nProject Manager: six maybe ,\nUser Interface: Six .\nProject Manager: because {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But the retrieval or the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: That m f\nProject Manager: Yeah , but I don't I don't know if it's very {vocalsound} inno yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , for the retrieval function . Yeah . I think that's very innovative for a remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah , v\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , {gap} how would you innovate a remote control more ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , more through uh like function T_V_ functionalities and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: To put it on your head .\nProject Manager: no no , you know what I mean .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: You have {disfmarker} {gap} must be innovative technology for remote controls , but more in how you control stuff , not in how you find your {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah sure , but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: yeah . Yeah , it's {disfmarker}\nMarketing: But I d I definitely don't think it's a five ,\nProject Manager: that's that's {disfmarker} think about it la later on\nMarketing: but {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: and uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Remote control is easy to use .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , as a a one or a two ma uh at least .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes .\nUser Interface: Yeah , a two .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: I think a two .\nProject Manager: Yeah , it's good .\nMarketing: Yeah ?\nUser Interface: More two .\nMarketing: Come on . The remote control hasn't got uh {disfmarker} {gap} .\nProject Manager: No , I would have seen {vocalsound} that one before . Oh , you skipped one uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I've just filled {disfmarker} uh\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh , here .\nMarketing: Go away .\nIndustrial Designer: You like the buttons . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I found twelve questions so much , but it still is ten .\nProject Manager: Remote control will be bought by {disfmarker}\nMarketing: It will be bought by people under the age of forty .\nProject Manager: Yeah . Definitely .\nUser Interface: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: Well {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: In in {disfmarker} and comparing with uh people of th of the age above ?\nMarketing: No no no . No , just if they if they buy it .\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh , just in general . Yeah , a two .\nIndustrial Designer: We don't know . But {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , but I think I think two .\nMarketing: Yeah , what do you think ?\nUser Interface: Yeah , I think two , yeah . I agree . Two .\nMarketing: Antek ?\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , two , but only in c when you compare it with with elderly .\nProject Manager: Uh , that is not the question . It's just w it will be bought by people under forty .\nMarketing: No , that's no comparison .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , you can {disfmarker} yeah , you can be very picky about it .\nMarketing: And I don't mean two people .\nIndustrial Designer: This is just guessing .\nProject Manager: Ah yeah , just make it {disfmarker} we'll make it a two .\nIndustrial Designer: Make it a two .\nMarketing: W w\nIndustrial Designer: When it succeeds , uh it can get a two , mu\nMarketing: Right , the rem The remote control has recognisable corporate image , colour , logo or slogan .\nProject Manager: Oh no . Yeah . Yeah , you have make an\nUser Interface: We don't have the slogan though .\n",
      "Project Manager: {disfmarker} slogan is quite obvious {gap} .\nMarketing: Oh , the slogan .\nProject Manager: Oh the {disfmarker} oh sorry , no , not not the slogan .\nMarketing: Can we see the slogan ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , you can put that on the side if {vocalsound} if we would like to .\nUser Interface: The logo .\nIndustrial Designer: A logo .\nUser Interface: Underneath it or something .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , uh encrypted uh with {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , and I will I th still think it's gonna be a two or a three .\n",
      "Marketing: Are we gonna do that ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} A three . Three .\nProject Manager: Maybe a three this time .\nUser Interface: Yeah , a three .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Three ? I agree . Because of the slogan {gap} {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Remote control's got a basic design intended uh for novice users .\nProject Manager: Uh , it's a one or a two .\nUser Interface: Yeah , two .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: Yeah , make it a two .\nUser Interface: Two .\n",
      "Marketing: Two ? Two . Alright . We gotta add up the scores now to see our total average . Four , five , seven , nine . Forget that . Fifteen , seventeen , twenty one , twenty four , twenty six . Twenty six . It's a two point six .\nProject Manager: It's not that bad .\nMarketing: Alright , we {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , and that's mostly the inno\nMarketing: yeah .\nProject Manager: when we uh score higher on innovative technology , we would score two ,\nMarketing: Yeah . True .\n",
      "Project Manager: which is uh quite a great score . Okay . Uh , this is {disfmarker} was uh the evaluation ?\nMarketing: {vocalsound} This was my evaluation . So {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Because I I still think that the most important part of this meeting still has {disfmarker}\nMarketing: We did a pretty nice job until now .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nMarketing: Um , is this your {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Is there something after this uh meeting ? Or {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Whatever . Well , I think we gotta fill out another questionnaire .\nUser Interface: No . Okay , yeah .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Still opened or uh {disfmarker} Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Okay , finance . Because um\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} Shoot .\nProject Manager: I received uh a spreadsheet .\nMarketing: A five . A five .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but I uh actually don't need this presentation , I guess . Oh .\nMarketing: Doesn't matter .\nProject Manager: I'm gonna open the spreadsheet and we're gonna work this out together , because I didn't really fin uh I have a {gap} .\nUser Interface: {gap}\n",
      "Project Manager: Didn't really finish it . Well , we uh {disfmarker} We'll see . We'll stumble upon some problems .\nMarketing: We probably will .\nProject Manager: {gap} I probably have already opened it here . {gap} try it again . First of all , the mm all the docking station and costs and such are not included in this list . But let's let's st start with beginning . We include one battery . I i uh I'll explain its {disfmarker} Uh , the the components are listed over here . Uh , price is given . We um {disfmarker} yeah ,\nMarketing: The amount , yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: we we uh indicate the amount of components of the specif specific component , how much we need of them . And then uh , we'll uh calcula Don't watch the number yet . I don't know if it's filled in properly . Okay , we need one battery . One battery . I think one battery is enough .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: We don't need kinetic , solar cells , hand dynamo . A s okay , this this is a p first problem . Uh , I think we should know how many simple chips , regular chips {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Uh it's it's one one chip , but but you have to choose one from it .\nProject Manager: Okay . But {gap} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: The simple chip is e enough I I think , but with the lights with the lights and the retrieval , it can be uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I don't know {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Where did we find this information ? Was it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I haven't got an idea on on which we need to use , really .\n",
      "Project Manager: I think it was uh your job in the first uh meet Uh , f your first presentation to make this clear , but then you had some t time problems .\nUser Interface: No .\nIndustrial Designer: No , uh I {disfmarker} Yes , my my my uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: The the email I got said uh simple chip , but when we put in the speaker and the retriever uh device , it will uh cost a a bit more , like I think the advanced chip {disfmarker} maybe .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . And how do you know ? I mean , you got that email . Did it point out what to use them for ?\nIndustrial Designer: Bec No , the {disfmarker} they didn't know about a retriever or a speaker uh in it .\nProject Manager: Maybe you can uh look it up right now . Okay , but {disfmarker} okay . When we don't {disfmarker} when we leave the uh retriever and such aside , what {gap} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Then it's a simple chip .\n",
      "Project Manager: then it would be a simple chip . And with the retriever , it would be an advanced chip .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , I I I s I {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Alright , well , point out the advanced chip for now , I guess .\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: That will be enough for future uh recommendations .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but it will it will it will be {disfmarker} cause a lot of problems . {vocalsound} The sample sensor {disfmarker} sample speaker . What is it m is that the speaker we were t I don't know what it is .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I don't know it uh either .\nMarketing: I don't know .\nProject Manager: Okay , we went for the double-curved case\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nProject Manager: made out of plastic and rubber . And with a special colour . I guess that's what we were {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Well , special colour . {gap} .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I don't know about the special colour , but I think w uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Otherwise , you get uh a standard uh plastic colour .\nUser Interface: I don't {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I don't know if it's very special .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , I think we uh we have special colours .\nUser Interface: Mm okay .\nIndustrial Designer: Standard rubber .\nMarketing: Alright , that's okay .\nProject Manager: Okay , then the push-button , I was just counting them .\nIndustrial Designer: St {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Uh , I think you have to indicate the amount of push-buttons we want to use , isn't it ?\nUser Interface: Whoa , it's a little {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well that's bit of a problem ,\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\n",
      "Project Manager: because I re but I really don't understand that , because I can imagine a remote control with far more push-buttons , and it wouldn't be possible according to this uh sheet .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} That's huge . No . We have {vocalsound} the simplest buttons .\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: Yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: No , it's only uh when you use push-buttons , it will cost that much .\nMarketing: I don't think so , because it says amount .\nIndustrial Designer: If you use a scroll-wheel {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Ah . Yeah , it wouldn't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: The the the yellow row is the amount of {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Fill in the number of components you plan to use in the {gap} and the total cost {disfmarker} I don't know . I\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe it's the kind of push-buttons . You can have f four kind of push-buttons .\nUser Interface: Uh , one til nine .\nIndustrial Designer: Rubber .\nUser Interface: Is that one or is that nine buttons ?\nIndustrial Designer: You can have uh {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: And I count them like this . One two three uh four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve and thirteen .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah .\nProject Manager: Because {disfmarker} Oh , this is {disfmarker} oh , this is one , okay . Twelve , okay , then it would be eighteen , because uh , I uh rated them as uh um as uh uh uh separate buttons .\nMarketing: To n\nIndustrial Designer: Different ,\nMarketing: that's total of four buttons .\nProject Manager: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: yes .\nProject Manager: And plus these two , f uh plus the mute button , and it's will be uh eighteen .\nMarketing: I think that {disfmarker} Eighteen . One two three four five , si\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Why is that so uh expensive .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I don't understand . Y I do I don't get the point , because it's would be s relatively so expensive , just these m small buttons .\nUser Interface: Is it cents , the the the fifty cents a button ?\nMarketing: Fifty cents for one single stupid button .\nUser Interface: No way .\nIndustrial Designer: So , whe when you {disfmarker} so then it {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Well , okay , well well let's make it just one .\nIndustrial Designer: It's eighty percent of the price of the of the amount of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Here , now it's now it's already s\nMarketing: Yeah , exactly . Yeah .\nProject Manager: shall we just give our own interpretation to ,\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: because else we would really have a problem . It would be impossible to make it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} I can't {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: It's way {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I I I couldn't understand it if it was fifty cents per uh uh per button . Really .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: When you have the same amount of button , you have to put in wi in your carton . Board .\nProject Manager: And and less buttons than this isn't possible .\nIndustrial Designer: And then throw it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , yeah , {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: This is the most simple {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: No , no no .\nProject Manager: yeah , it is possible , but I've never seen one before .\nIndustrial Designer: But whe\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I've seen one uh one remote control with only the pu yeah , only with uh page up , page down and volume ,\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No , really .\nProject Manager: Yeah , without the numbers . That's possible . Yeah , we could skip the numbers .\nUser Interface: Yeah , uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: but but {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , but I d I wouldn't want to own that . Really .\nUser Interface: That's still four .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , it's it's still for little children . They can handle that remote control ,\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Then uh , teletext would also be im impossible .\nIndustrial Designer: but but it isn't fo Yes , it's for {disfmarker} it's li uh it's just for a little {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , that's no option , that's no option .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , we'll we'll just {disfmarker} okay . But then still , {vocalsound} when we {disfmarker} there's no room for a docking station or something . Tha w Le let's see th we have uh {disfmarker} oh yeah , button supplements . We'll give the buttons special colour . We'll give them a special form . Uh , I think we should mark the special form thing , because it {disfmarker} this will be some special forms incorporated in these big buttons , I guess .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} A special colour , why a special colour ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Because the buttons will be uh d will be matching colour between the buttons and the rubber surroundings .\nUser Interface: But wha what s what special ?\nProject Manager: I think that's the {disfmarker} what they mean by a special colour .\nUser Interface: Okay , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Otherwise , it {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Uh , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: Otherwise it would be the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: I don't think the special form is really true .\nProject Manager: I think all the special colour things have to be marked over here , because that's what we were planning to do , making it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Special form also , it says .\nProject Manager: Yeah , special material r also ,\nMarketing: Is it ?\nProject Manager: because i has rubber . And the buttons have to be rubber .\nIndustrial Designer: What is the normal material ?\nUser Interface: Plastic .\nMarketing: Yeah , I dunno .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Sh yeah .\nUser Interface: Plastic , I think .\nIndustrial Designer: Classic ?\nUser Interface: Plastic .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh , plastic .\nMarketing: Plastic .\n",
      "Project Manager: 'Kay , but the problem now is that {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} There's no such thing as a docking station in this list , but we can all imagine that it would be impossible to make a docking station for thirty cents .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} But we can uh sell the remote control and uh sell the docking station {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Separately .\nUser Interface: Se no no no .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: yes . And and {disfmarker} but we don't have to tell it , but what we can say of {disfmarker} can um almost make it impossible to buy a remote control without the docking station .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , yeah . Yeah , but I do like the idea , but we {disfmarker} yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: It uh {disfmarker} but it {disfmarker} then the docking station isn't relevant for this project anymore , but we can {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: No , but you {disfmarker} otherwise you can't retrieve it .\nProject Manager: but then you still have to use {disfmarker} we have to find out what chip we u need .\nMarketing: Yeah , I really don't get it . I mean if it's a simple chip , then we suddenly got two Euros and thirty cents .\nProject Manager: I think we can agree on this . I I think the special colour thing has to be uh marked . 'Cause I think we uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , yep .\nProject Manager: Yeah , I think that's what what what they uh mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: But for two Euros and thirty cents , we uh we don't get a docking station .\nMarketing: I think so , too . Oh , I don't know .\nProject Manager: But can we find out uh about uh this chips ? Because when we don't need a d a docking station , then probably we also have only {disfmarker} we also need a simple chip .\nUser Interface: And then we can get a docking station . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: And maybe then we can do something extra . Oh , n uh oh , still {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: For {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: oh , it's gonna get more expensive with {gap} . Two .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Then we have some money left . We can put then {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: For two Euros .\nProject Manager: We can put a scroll-wheel on it or something .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Uh why ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , well who knows . Or a little bit of tin titanium .\n",
      "Marketing: I mean i i if you {disfmarker} if it would cost two Euros , that had a total a total thing , it would be nice too , I mean uh we're not gonna add uh a trip to Hawaii to it .\nUser Interface: But what what can we do {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , or we can ki do the kinetic cells . That's also maybe an idea .\nUser Interface: But uh what can we do with the simple chip and what's difference with a regular chip and a advanced chip ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah that's what then what he has to find out . Maybe you can uh find it in your email right now , then we know {disfmarker} then we exactly know what it will cost us .\nUser Interface: If if i\nProject Manager: Maybe is that {disfmarker} that's nice to know .\nUser Interface: Regular chip and {disfmarker} because we don't have uh special functions to use uh in advanced chip , for example .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , bu bu but when we {disfmarker} yeah , but when we skip when we um {disfmarker} when we don't use the do we're not gonna make the docking station , then we still {disfmarker} yeah , we need something else maybe to make it kind of special ,\nMarketing: I like the hand dynamo part .\nProject Manager: because that was our our special feature .\nMarketing: We can make a plain docking station for two Euros .\nUser Interface: Yeah . We'll go back uh tomorrow . {vocalsound}\nMarketing: I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , okay , you can also do that , but maybe {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Wi wi without recharge {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It still is a special remote control cons uh you know , wi its form is special and material .\nMarketing: Yeah , but but we can make a docking station for two Euros uh if you don't put the recharge function in it . I mean , it has a shape .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but for two Euros , then we have still {disfmarker} maybe we have to use the advanced chip ,\nMarketing: Of course it has a shape , but i i\n",
      "Project Manager: then two Euros isn't even possible .\nMarketing: Why should that not be possible ?\nProject Manager: Yeah , then {disfmarker} because then we'd {disfmarker} thirty cents left .\nMarketing: No , for for the uh for the docking station if you do if you choose the simple chip .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but {disfmarker} yeah , I don't know , because maybe d uh yeah , we have to find out with the simple chip .\nUser Interface: That's the question . If we do i do we need an advanced chip , or is it okay f\nProject Manager: Yeah , and w and and we uh need f\n",
      "Marketing: Yes .\nIndustrial Designer: It isn't in my information , so I don't know it uh either .\nProject Manager: and what is this ? Sample sensor sample speaker .\nIndustrial Designer: It isn't in my information , I uh I {disfmarker} I've got a schematic view of the remote control , but nothing about uh advanced chips or {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: {gap} {disfmarker} You can look at it for s presentation . S technical functions ?\nUser Interface: No .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh I've got here in uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: No no , they were uh mine , yeah .\nProject Manager: Oh .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: I will put a I will put a page on it . When my mouse works again .\nProject Manager: Oh , oh oh . Hey . Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: My mouse is uh {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Dead .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Reanimate it .\nUser Interface: Died .\nIndustrial Designer: Oh . Ah , I've got it . I will put uh my email on the the network .\nMarketing: What the hell are these ?\nIndustrial Designer: It's on it .\nMarketing: Oh , whatever .\nUser Interface: Yeah , it's open .\nMarketing: {vocalsound}\n",
      "Project Manager: Mm . I don't think here {disfmarker} it's in here already .\nUser Interface: It's circuit board . It's only just basics for for {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: It's nothing about s yeah .\nUser Interface: At the end circuit there is an infrared LED .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: This isn't helpful .\nProject Manager: No . But i in the presentation of yours , there was also something about different components . Which one was it ?\nUser Interface: Components design .\nProject Manager: Functional requirements ?\nIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , that was my presentation .\n",
      "User Interface: Components design maybe . N on top .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , that was mine .\nProject Manager: Ah . Ah yes , it was the second one .\nIndustrial Designer: But that was my second {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , it was your second {disfmarker}\nMarketing: It's already open .\nProject Manager: your first presentation .\nMarketing: It's at the bottom .\nProject Manager: Sorry ?\nUser Interface: Working design .\nMarketing: It's uh at your task bar .\nUser Interface: Yeah , but it's the the other one .\nMarketing: Oh .\nIndustrial Designer: Mm {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: Uh , this is n this is not this n\nUser Interface: Was it working design or components design ?\nMarketing: Sorry .\nProject Manager: that's not the right one . I don't {disfmarker} oh .\nMarketing: Okay , sorry .\nProject Manager: No , this is the other one . Or maybe something is uh {disfmarker} maybe there's something abo in in these {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Chip set .\nIndustrial Designer: But this is the same uh {disfmarker} This is o only the possibilities .\nProject Manager: Here .\nIndustrial Designer: Yeah . We can use a simple , a regular , or advanced chip .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah , nice . I it doesn't say anything .\nUser Interface: The display requires an advanced chip .\nProject Manager: You know that a push-button requires a simple chip , but a scroll-wheel , it it me requires {disfmarker} {gap} {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Ah , okay .\nProject Manager: Okay , so we only need a simple chip .\nUser Interface: Requires .\nIndustrial Designer: With the light .\nUser Interface: Little lights . Yeah , but that that's just the same as the the LED .\nProject Manager: No no , that's just a simple chip . A scroll-wheel {disfmarker} {gap} {disfmarker}\n",
      "Marketing: That's not needed .\nProject Manager: it s uh only states that a scroll-wheel requires a regular chip , and that a display requires an advanced chip . So , we don't need any of them .\nMarketing: A display uh is , of course , uh for showing letters . For showing text .\nIndustrial Designer: L_C_D_ .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: I don't think that uh just a l a little light {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: No . I think uh the uh normal uh simple chip will be okay .\nMarketing: Yeah , I agree .\nProject Manager: And what's the sample sensor slash sample speaker ?\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Maybe you can say against the remote uh page uh f uh page up , page down .\nUser Interface: Yeah .\nMarketing: Yeah , I guess so too .\nUser Interface: Yeah , true . Well , that's not too {disfmarker} what we want .\nMarketing: Next channel . No . Well , we might want it , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} All in twelve Euros .\nProject Manager: Back to the costs .\nIndustrial Designer: Twelve Euros and fifty cents .\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: So we're gonna use the simple chip .\nUser Interface: So , simple chip is okay .\nMarketing: Great . Delete .\nIndustrial Designer: And the lights . Where uh are the lights ?\nMarketing: Yeah .\nUser Interface: Yeah , lights , yeah , there's no\nMarketing: Well , there're three , I guess .\nUser Interface: category . {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Nah , there is some money left to be spent .\nUser Interface: Can we do it wi within two two Euro ?\nMarketing: I think we can make a docking station . Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Okay , but what we have to think about now is that is is it still a special remote control ? But I mean it isn't {disfmarker} it hasn't got any innovative technology , we aren't gonna apply any uh innovated {disfmarker} innovative te technology anyway , I think . I don't I don't see any possibility to do so , because it would {disfmarker} wouldn't fit our defi design philosophy .\nUser Interface: Mm-hmm . But it's original .\nProject Manager: But what w is there some extra {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , that's true .\n",
      "Project Manager: maybe I think maybe the kinetic thing is something . Instead of the rechargeable {disfmarker} the rechargeable thing was something to um {disfmarker} know , so y so people wouldn't have to worry about their batteries anymore .\nMarketing: M bu\nProject Manager: Maybe we {disfmarker} if we put the kinetic thing in it {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But but sometimes you put a {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: Yeah , you leave the p yeah , I know , but still I {disfmarker} they will think about that . I mean if you u\n",
      "Industrial Designer: Kinetics aren't uh nowadays only used in watches and that's because you're always walking .\nProject Manager: The uh {disfmarker} it's made for s people {disfmarker} well , the they don't {disfmarker} if it was uh uh r useless technology , they wouldn't put it uh as a possibility .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh solar cells are useless .\nProject Manager: And i it it {disfmarker} th th the the target\nMarketing: Or the hand dynamo dynamo {disfmarker}\n",
      "Project Manager: the target uh group are people who zap regularly and throw with their remote control as a matter of speaking {gap} .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Yeah .\n",
      "Project Manager: Because I think it {disfmarker} when when there w was a remote control where it was useful to have a kinetic uh uh power source , then it would be this one . Because it's one {disfmarker} it gets thrown around {gap} thrown around a lot and it gets used a lot {disfmarker} Hey that {disfmarker} maybe that's cool {disfmarker} that's a cool thing about it , you know . You don't use batteries .\nMarketing: Yeah , but but if we ca\nProject Manager: I've never seen it before in a remote control .\nUser Interface: But then we could make a docking station .\n",
      "Marketing: I don't know if {disfmarker} Five minutes .\nProject Manager: No , we we we can't make a docking station anyway .\nMarketing: That's not true .\nProject Manager: Yeah , we can als or uh also m we we can make one {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Wow , w why no li\nMarketing: We can make a docking station for two thirty .\nProject Manager: we can still make {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Look at now , we got two\nIndustrial Designer: Fo {vocalsound} for a docking station .\nMarketing: Two thirty .\n",
      "User Interface: two thirty left . Ca can't we make a docking station of that ?\nMarketing: We can make a docking station . Sure .\nIndustrial Designer: With a cable , with uh buttons on it , with retrieval uh device in it .\nMarketing: Sure .\nUser Interface: I don't know .\nMarketing: The power device is is i i is very cheap .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: That's just a regular uh power cable and whatever .\nProject Manager: Yeah , but be serious , then uh the docking station will be a fifth of the price of the remote control .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Wi with a button to\n",
      "User Interface: Well , we we uh {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: wi with a button to retrieve it , so it will beep .\nMarketing: So .\nIndustrial Designer: Uh , so it's uh wireless technology .\nMarketing: Yeah .\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but we uh we don't inc we haven't looked at the {disfmarker} these costs of the speaker and other stuff . I don't think it's realistic for you to do so .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Well then it's a useless project .\nIndustrial Designer: Look at the case ,\nProject Manager: Oh , because we {gap} {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: the case the case of of uh of uh {disfmarker}\nUser Interface: Yeah , then we don't have any innovation things .\nProject Manager: We {disfmarker} well look at all the special stuff we have . Colour a the colours are special , the form is special . It {disfmarker} th this is whole concept . Uh maybe it {disfmarker} with the kinetic thing , I think we could do uh do a compromise uh with the kim kinetic thing .\nMarketing: {vocalsound} Can't we uh {disfmarker} Can't we say fifteen Euros ?\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} Uh , no .\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: No , sta yeah {gap} I mean {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: No , then we have to sell it for thirty Euros .\nMarketing: No .\nUser Interface: No , we only make less profit of it .\nIndustrial Designer: It's the {disfmarker}\nMarketing: You can sell for twenty seven and a half . Then you make as much profit as you would with twelve and a half production costs .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} No .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , I don my suggestion is to just forget about the whole docking station thing and make it uh like a {disfmarker} Uh uh I I I I still fee I also feel this concept of making it kinetic , because of the {disfmarker} you know , it g it gives something dynamic to the remote control .\nMarketing: I don't think {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Maybe we can uh can do it both . Maybe we can do it both uh in the in the in the remote . Battery and kinetic .\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: No , that wouldn't n no .\nMarketing: Thirteen twenty .\n",
      "Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Yeah , and it is also not a good {disfmarker} it's not {disfmarker} you have to really do it only kinetic , you don't want it to think about batteries anymore .\nMarketing: And I think only {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , but when it's {disfmarker} then when it {disfmarker}\nMarketing: Yeah , but only kinetic , then you gotta {disfmarker}\nProject Manager: No no .\nIndustrial Designer: then you have to shake it uh and all when it's when it's empty .\n",
      "Project Manager: Yeah , it's great .\nMarketing: You you gotta throw uh throw it through the room like twenty times an hour , really .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: {vocalsound} No no no . No no , this is very sophisticated technology technology .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: When you use it {disfmarker} your remote like once a day , or maybe even less i i it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Industrial Designer: You asked for three d No , that's n that's not true . Uh , a watch is uh kinetic because you walk all the time .\nMarketing: No .\nProject Manager: It {disfmarker} We can make it {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} no . Becau be but a remote control gets {disfmarker} why do they state that this technology can be used if it\nIndustrial Designer: Yes , solar cells are also stated .\nProject Manager: Yeah , m but a w uh uh n uh a calculator also works on r on solar cells .\nIndustrial Designer: Why don't we use solar cells then ?\n",
      "Project Manager: Because I think the d whole dynamic part , do you know , appeals to me qui uh thinking of our design philosophy , you know , with the rubber parts and uh sturdiness of the thing , and y when you move it around a lot , then people find the idea funny that when I move my remote control around and {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: That's true .\nMarketing: Yeah , it's funny for a week . I guess something like that , where you have to move it around very frequently , is demotivating .\n",
      "Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah , but you don't have to . Trust me . The idea of this technology is that you don't think about it , it just happens .\nMarketing: No , I I don't move my uh my remote control very much , seriously .\nProject Manager: Okay , then we d Okay , well y we don't have to do it , but what {disfmarker} that would just have a lack of key features , you know .\nIndustrial Designer: Oui .\n",
      "Project Manager: You m have to put something on your box . You have to make people buy it and uh {disfmarker} We can really can do the docking thing , uh it's not {disfmarker} yeah , uh we can do it , but it's would be a easy way out .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can do it for fifty cents . {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: Well , we've got more than fifty Cents .\nProject Manager: Okay , but we have to grou to agree upon something ,\n",
      "Industrial Designer: The c {vocalsound} The case the case alone is is is uh\nProject Manager: because uh we only have a minute left or so .\nIndustrial Designer: the case alone for uh remote control is at least one Euro . Then we have one Euro thirty for the whole docking station .\nProject Manager: No no , it's not possible . Okay , w b we can s we can leave it on be well then then th it's {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} then then our concept is ready .\nUser Interface: Cheap remote control .\nProject Manager: Yeah , we make some extra profit of it .\n",
      "Marketing: Yeah . {vocalsound} No , we won't , but that's um something else .\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} It w it won't tell , but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: But now {disfmarker}\nMarketing: No , this not gonna sell . No .\nProject Manager: Huh , any ideas ?\nMarketing: Of course not .\nUser Interface: No , uh , n no\nIndustrial Designer: Great {gap} . It's great .\nUser Interface: Yeah , we just have to go all what we did today again . You have to do it over .\nIndustrial Designer: Our remote control .\n",
      "Marketing: We come back tomorrow , okay ?\nProject Manager: No no uh there's still there's still someth concept and something special left .\nUser Interface: Yeah . {vocalsound}\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nUser Interface: {gap} the {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Seventy Euros .\nProject Manager: I mean we're gonna {disfmarker} it's gonna excel in in on in the the range in the field of design and and uh looks and feel .\nUser Interface: No , but {disfmarker} no .\n",
      "Project Manager: That's what it's {disfmarker} makes it special . Yeah , and I would li I would have liked a kinetic part as well , to give it some just to give it some extra special feature , and uh I know it will work , but uh it's it's an {disfmarker} They're they're not putting technologies on this {gap} , but if it if it was impossible to to make it happen .\nIndustrial Designer: Why not a hand dynamo then ?\nUser Interface: {vocalsound}\nProject Manager: Okay , well we leave it like this . Then it's c then we're {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "User Interface: Yeah , yeah .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nMarketing: We can't do anything else . Warning , finish meeting now .\nIndustrial Designer: We're done .\nProject Manager: Okay , project e uh\nIndustrial Designer: Is this it ?\nProject Manager: well , we were gonna what look {disfmarker} take a look at the last sheet .\nMarketing: Yeah , {vocalsound} sure .\nIndustrial Designer: Okay .\nMarketing: No , we can't .\nProject Manager: Yeah , we have to {disfmarker} Yeah , it's {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound}\n",
      "User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} No .\nIndustrial Designer: Yes .\nMarketing: Yes , yes . Celebration . I don't see why , but {disfmarker}\nIndustrial Designer: Where's the champagne ?\nMarketing: I think we gotta fill out another questionnaire , to be honest .\nUser Interface: Yeah ?\nIndustrial Designer: I don't uh hear a bell .\nMarketing: No , not yet .\nIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}\nUser Interface: {vocalsound} We can do it here then .\nMarketing: Alright , I'll see you guys in a minute .\nIndustrial Designer: Bye .\n"
    ],
    "length": 16414,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 42,
    "question": "What was the meeting about?",
    "answer": "The group talked about the status of the first test set of digits data, naming conventions for files, speaker identification tags, and encoding files with details about the recording. The group also discussed a proposal for a grant from the NSF's ITR (Information Technology Research) program, transcriptions, and efforts by speaker mn005 to detect speaker overlap using harmonicity-related features. Particular focus was paid to questions about transcription procedures, i.e. how to deal with overlooked backchannels, and audible breaths.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor A: OK .\nGrad B: OK we 're on and we seem to be working .\nPhD C: Yes .\nProfessor A: OK .\nGrad B: We didn't crash {disfmarker} we 're not crashing anymore\nPhD C: One , two , three , four , f\nGrad B: and it really bothers me .\nProfessor A: Yeah ?\nPhD C: No crashing .\nPhD G: I do . I crashed when I started this morning .\nGrad B: You crashed {disfmarker} crashed this morning ? I did not crash this morning .\nPhD C: Yeah ?\n",
      "Professor A: Oh ! Well maybe it 's just , you know , how many t u u u u how many times you crash in a day .\nPhD G: Really ? Yeah . Maybe , yeah .\nProfessor A: First time {disfmarker} first time in the day , you know .\nPhD G: Or maybe it 's once you 've {pause} done enough meetings {comment} it won't crash on you anymore .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD C: No ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nPhD G: It 's a matter of experience .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Self - learning , yeah .\nProfessor A: That 's {disfmarker} that 's great .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Uh .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Do we have an agenda ? Liz {disfmarker} Liz and Andreas can't sh can't {disfmarker} uh , can't come .\nGrad B: I do .\nProfessor A: So , they won't be here .\nGrad B: I have agenda and it 's all me .\nPhD G: Did {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Cuz no one sent me anything else .\n",
      "PhD G: Did they send , uh , the messages to you about the meeting today ?\nGrad B: I have no idea but I just got it a few minutes ago .\nPhD G: Oh .\nGrad B: Right when you were in my office it arrived .\nPhD G: Oh . OK , cuz I checked my mail . I didn't have anything .\nGrad B: So , does anyone have any a agenda items other than me ? I actually have one more also which is to talk about the digits .\nProfessor A: Uh , right , so {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I was just gonna talk briefly about the NSF ITR .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad B: Oh , great .\nProfessor A: Uh , and then , you have {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Can w\nProfessor A: I mean , I won't say much , but {disfmarker} {comment} uh , but then , uh , you said {disfmarker} wanna talk about digits ?\n",
      "Grad B: I have a short thing about digits and then uh I wanna talk a little bit about naming conventions , although it 's unclear whether this is the right place to talk about it . So maybe just talk about it very briefly and take the details to the people who {disfmarker} for whom it 's relevant .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I could always say something about transcription . I 've been {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} uh , well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: Well if we {disfmarker} Yeah , we shouldn't add things in just to add things in . I 'm actually pretty busy today ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor A: so if we can {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} we {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor A: a short meeting would be fine .\nPostdoc F: This does sound like we 're doing fine , yeah . That won't do .\n",
      "Grad B: So the only thing I wanna say about digits is , we are pretty much done with the first test set . There are probably forms here and there that are marked as having been read that weren't really read . So I won't really know until I go through all the transcriber forms and extract out pieces that are in error . So I wa Uh . Two things . The first is what should we do about digits that were misread ? My opinion is , um , we should just throw them out completely , and have them read again by someone else . You know , the grouping is completely random ,\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad B: so it {disfmarker} it 's perfectly fine to put a {disfmarker} a group together again of errors and have them re - read , just to finish out the test set .\nPostdoc F: Oh ! By {disfmarker} throw them out completely ?\nGrad B: Um , the other thing you could do is change the transcript to match what they really said . So those are {disfmarker} those are the two options .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: But there 's often things where people do false starts . I know I 've done it , where I say {disfmarker} say a {disfmarker}\nGrad B: What the transcribers did with that is if they did a correction , and they eventually did read the right string , {comment} you extract the right string .\nPhD G: Oh , you 're talking about where they completely read the wrong string and didn't correct it ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad B: Yeah . And didn't notice . Which happens in a few places .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: Ah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Well , and s and you 're talking string - wise , you 're not talking about the entire page ?\nGrad B: Correct .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I get it .\nGrad B: And so the {disfmarker} the two options are change the transcript to match what they really said , but then {disfmarker} but then the transcript isn't the Aurora test set anymore . I don't think that really matters because the conditions are so different . And that would be a little easier .\n",
      "PhD G: Well how many are {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how often does that happen ?\nGrad B: Mmm , five or six times .\nPhD G: Oh , so it 's not very much .\nGrad B: No , it 's not much at all .\nPhD G: Seems like we should just change the transcripts\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nPhD G: to match .\nProfessor A: Yeah , it 's five or six times out of {pause} thousands ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad B: Four thousand .\nProfessor A: Four thousand ?\n",
      "PhD C: Four thous Ah ! Four thousand .\nPhD G: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Yeah , I would , uh , {vocalsound} tak do the easy way ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor A: yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: It {disfmarker} it 's kinda nice {disfmarker} I mean , wh who knows what studies people will be doing on {disfmarker} on speaker - dependent things\nPhD C: Mmm .\nProfessor A: and so I think having {disfmarker} having it all {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: the speakers who we had is {disfmarker} is at least interesting .\nPhD G: So you {disfmarker} um , how many digits have been transcribed now ?\nGrad B: Four thousand lines . And each line is between one and about ten digits .\nPhD G: Four thousand lines ?\nGrad B: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't compute the average . I think the average was around four or five .\nProfessor A: So that 's a couple hours of {disfmarker} of , uh , speech , probably .\nPhD G: Wow .\nGrad B: Yep . Yep .\n",
      "Professor A: Which is a yeah reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable test set .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: And , Jane , I do have a set of forms which I think you have copies of somewhere .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , true .\nGrad B: Oh you do ? Oh OK , good , good .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah , I was just wond I thought I had {disfmarker} had all of them back from you . And then the other thing is that , uh , the forms in front of us here that we 're gonna read later , were suggested by Liz\nPostdoc F: No , not yet .\nGrad B: because she wanted to elicit some different prosodics from digits . And so , uh , I just wanted people to , take a quick look at the instructions\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . \nPhD E: Eight eight two two two nine .\n",
      "Grad B: and the way it wa worked and see if it makes sense and if anyone has any comments on it .\nProfessor A: I see . And the decision here , uh , was to continue with uh the words rather than the {disfmarker} the numerics .\nGrad B: Uh , yes , although we could switch it back . The problem was O and zero . Although we could switch it back and tell them always to say \" zero \" or always to say \" O \" .\nPostdoc F: Oh {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Or neither .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: But it 's just two thing {disfmarker} ways that you can say it .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Right ?\nGrad B: Sure .\nPostdoc F: Oh .\nProfessor A: Um {disfmarker} um ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: that 's the only thought I have because if you t start talking about these , you know u tr She 's trying to get at natural groupings , but it {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's nothing natural about reading numbers this way .\nGrad B: Right .\n",
      "Professor A: I mean if you saw a telephone number you would never see it this way .\nGrad B: The {disfmarker} the problem also is she did want to stick with digits . I mean I 'm speaking for her since she 's not here .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad B: But , um , the other problem we were thinking about is if you just put the numerals , {comment} they might say forty - three instead of four three .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: Mmm .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well , if there 's space , though , between them . I mean , you can {disfmarker} With {disfmarker} when you space them out they don't look like , uh , forty - three anymore .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad B: Well , she and I were talking about it ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad B: and she felt that it 's very , very natural to do that sort of chunking .\n",
      "Professor A: She 's right . It 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's a different problem . I mean it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} it 's an interesting problem {disfmarker} I mean , we 've done stuff with numbers before , and yeah sometimes people {disfmarker} If you say s \" three nine eight one \" sometimes people will say \" thirty - nine eighty - one \" or \" three hundred {disfmarker} three hundred eighty - nine one \" , or {disfmarker} I don't think they 'd say that ,\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: but {disfmarker} but th\nGrad B: Not very frequently\nProfessor A: no {disfmarker}\nGrad B: but , {vocalsound} they certainly could .\nProfessor A: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Uh , th thirty - eight ninety - one is probably how they 'd do it .\nGrad B: So . I mean , this is something that Liz and I spoke about\nProfessor A: But {disfmarker} I see .\nGrad B: and , since this was something that Liz asked for specifically , I think we need to defer to her .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: OK . Well , we 're probably gonna be collecting meetings for a while and if we decide we still wanna do some digits later we might be able to do some different ver different versions ,\nGrad B: Do something different ,\nProfessor A: but this is the next suggestion ,\nGrad B: yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: so . OK . OK , so uh e l I guess , let me , uh , get my {disfmarker} my short thing out about the NSF . I sent this {disfmarker} actually this is maybe a little side thing . Um , I {disfmarker} I sent to what I thought we had , uh , in some previous mail , as the right joint thing to send to , which was \" M {disfmarker} MTG RCDR hyphen joint \" .\nGrad B: It was . Joint . Yep .\nProfessor A: But then I got some sort of funny mail saying that the moderator was going to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: It 's {disfmarker} That 's because they set the one up at UW {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: \nGrad B: that 's not on our side , that 's on the U - dub {comment} side .\nProfessor A: Oh .\nGrad B: And so U - UW set it up as a moderated list .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Oh , OK .\nGrad B: And , I have no idea whether it actually ever goes to anyone so you might just wanna mail to Mari\n",
      "Professor A: No {disfmarker} no , th I got {disfmarker} I got , uh , little excited notes from Mari and Jeff and so on ,\nGrad B: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: so it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK , good .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad B: So the moderator actually did repost it .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: Cuz I had sent one earlier {disfmarker} Actually the same thing happened to me {disfmarker} I had sent one earlier . The message says , \" You 'll be informed \" and then I was never informed but I got replies from people indicating that they had gotten it , so .\nProfessor A: Right .\nGrad B: It 's just to prevent spam .\nProfessor A: I see . Yeah so O {disfmarker} OK . Well , anyway , I guess {disfmarker} everybody here {disfmarker} Are y are {disfmarker} you are on that list , right ? So you got the note ?\n",
      "PhD G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Yeah ? OK .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: Um , so this was , uh , a , uh , proposal that we put in before on {disfmarker} on more {disfmarker} more higher level , uh , issues in meetings , from {disfmarker} I guess higher level from my point of view . Uh , {vocalsound} and , uh , meeting mappings , and , uh {disfmarker} so is i for {disfmarker} it was a {vocalsound} proposal for the ITR program , uh , Information Technology Research program 's part of National Science Foundation . It 's the {pause} second year of their doing , uh , these grants . They 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} a lot of them are {disfmarker} some of them anyway , are larger {disfmarker} larger grants than the usual , small NSF grants , and . So , they 're very competitive , and they have a first phase where you put in pre - proposals , and we {disfmarker} we , uh , got through that . And so th the {disfmarker} the next phase will be {disfmarker} we 'll actually be doing a larger proposal . And I 'm {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hope to be doing very little of it . And {disfmarker} uh , {vocalsound} which was also true for the pre - proposal , so . Uh , there 'll be bunch of people working on it . So .\n",
      "Grad B: When 's {disfmarker} when 's the full proposal due ?\nProfessor A: Uh , I think April ninth , or something . So it 's about a month .\nPhD E: p s\nProfessor A: Um {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yep . And they said end of business day you could check on the reviewer forms ,\nPhD G: u\nGrad B: is that {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Tomorrow .\nProfessor A: Tomorrow . March second , I said .\nPhD E: Tomorrow ?\nGrad B: I 've been a day off all week .\nPhD C: Tomorrow .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: I guess that 's a good thing cuz that way I got my papers done early .\nPhD G: It would be interesting {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: So that 's amazing you showed up at this meeting !\nGrad B: It is . It is actually quite amazing .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: It 'll be interesting to see the reviewer 's comments .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . Yeah . My favorite is was when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when one reviewer says , uh , \" you know , this should be far more detailed \" , and the nex the next reviewer says , \" you know , there 's way too much detail \" .\nGrad B: Yep . Or \" this is way too general \" , and the other reviewer says , \" this is way too specific \" .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad B: \" This is way too hard \" , \" way too easy \" .\n",
      "Professor A: We 'll see . Maybe there 'll be something useful . And {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Well it sounded like they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} the first gate was pretty easy . Is that right ? That they didn't reject a lot of the pre - proposals ?\nProfessor A: Do you know anything about the numbers ?\nGrad B: No . Just {disfmarker} just th\nPhD G: It 's just from his message it sounded like that .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . I said something , yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: Gary Strong 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: I\nPhD G: there was a sentence at the end of one of his paragraphs\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: I {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: I should go back and look . I didn't {disfmarker} I don't think that 's true .\nGrad B: Yeah , OK .\nPhD G: Mmm . He said the next phase 'll be very , competitive\nPhD E: Very {disfmarker} very ,\nPhD G: because we didn't want to weed out much in the first phase .\n",
      "PhD E: yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor A: Well we 'll have to see what the numbers are .\nGrad B: Or something like that ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: so .\nPhD C: Hmm .\nProfessor A: Yeah . But they {disfmarker} they have to weed out enough so that they have enough reviewers .\nGrad B: Right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: So , uh , you know , maybe they didn't r weed out as much as usual , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's usually a pretty {disfmarker} But it {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's certainly not {disfmarker} I 'm sure that it 's not down to one in two or something of what 's left .\nGrad B: Right .\nProfessor A: I 'm sure it 's , you know {disfmarker}\nGrad B: How {disfmarker} how many awards are there , do you know ?\n",
      "Professor A: Well there 's different numbers of w awards for different size {disfmarker} They have three size grants . This one there 's , um {disfmarker} See the small ones are less than five hundred thousand total over three years and that they have a fair number of them . Um , and the large ones are , uh , boy , I forget , I think , more than , uh , more than a million and a half , more than two million or something like that . And {disfmarker} and we 're in the middle {disfmarker} middle category .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: I think we 're , uh , uh , I forget what it was . But , um {disfmarker} Uh , I don't remember , but it 's {pause} pr probably along the li I {disfmarker} I could be wrong on this yeah , but probably along the lines of fifteen or {disfmarker} that they 'll fund , or twenty . I mean when they {disfmarker} Do you {disfmarker} do you know how many they funded when they f in {disfmarker} in Chuck 's , that he got last year ?\n",
      "PhD G: I don't {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad B: I thought it was smaller , that it was like four or five , wasn't it ?\nProfessor A: Well they fund {disfmarker}\nPhD G: I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: they {disfmarker}\nPhD G: I don't remember .\nProfessor A: yeah . I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Uh it doesn't matter , we 'll find out one way or another .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . I mean last time I think they just had two categories , small and big ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: and this time they came up with a middle one , so it 'll {disfmarker} there 'll be more of them that they fund than {disfmarker} of the big .\nPhD G: If we end up getting this , um , what will it mean to ICSI in terms of , w wh where will the money go to , what would we be doing with it ?\nProfessor A: Uh .\nGrad B: Exactly what we say in the proposal .\n",
      "PhD G: I {disfmarker} I mean uh which part is ICSI though .\nProfessor A: You know , it {disfmarker} i None of it will go for those yachts that we 've talking about .\nPhD G: I mean {disfmarker} Dang !\nProfessor A: Um , well , no , I mean it 's {disfmarker} u It {disfmarker}\nPhD G: It 's just for the research {disfmarker} to continue the research on the Meeting Recorder stuff ?\nProfessor A: It 's extending the research , right ? Because the other {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah .\nGrad B: Yeah it 's go higher level stuff than we 've been talking about for Meeting Recorder .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Yeah the other things that we have , uh , been working on with , uh , the c with Communicator {disfmarker} uh , especially with the newer things {disfmarker} with the more acoustically - oriented things are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are lower level . And , this is dealing with , uh , mapping on the level of {disfmarker} of , um , the conversation {disfmarker} of mapping the conversations\n",
      "PhD G: Mm - hmm . Right , right .\nProfessor A: to different kind of planes . So . Um . But , um . So it 's all it 's all stuff that none none of us are doing right now , or none of us are funded for , so it 's {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker} it would be new .\nPhD G: So assuming everybody 's completely busy now , it means we 're gonna hafta , hire more students , or , something ?\n",
      "Professor A: Well there 's evenings , and there 's weekends , and {disfmarker} Uh . Yeah , there {disfmarker} there would be {disfmarker} there would be new hires , and {disfmarker} and there {disfmarker} there would be expansion , but , also , there 's always {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for everybody there 's {disfmarker} there 's always things that are dropping off , grants that are ending , or other things that are ending , so ,\nPhD G: Right .\n",
      "Professor A: there 's {disfmarker} there 's a {vocalsound} continual need to {disfmarker} to bring in new things .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Yep .\nPhD G: Right .\nProfessor A: But {disfmarker} but there definitely would be new {disfmarker} new {disfmarker} new , uh , students ,\nPhD G: I see .\nProfessor A: and so forth , both at {disfmarker} at UW and here .\nGrad B: Are there any students in your class who are {vocalsound} expressing interest ?\n",
      "Professor A: Um , not {pause} clear yet . Not clear yet .\nGrad B: Other than the one who 's already here .\n",
      "Professor A: I mean we got {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} yeah , two of them are {disfmarker} two in the c There 're {pause} two in the class already here , and then {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker} uh , then there 's a third who 's doing a project here , who , uh {disfmarker} But he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he won't be in the country that long ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: and , maybe another will end up .\n",
      "Grad B: Yep .\nProfessor A: Actually there is one other guy who 's looking {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's that guy , uh , Jeremy ? {comment} I think .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . \n",
      "Professor A: Anyway , yeah that 's {disfmarker} that 's all I was gonna say is that {disfmarker} that that 's {disfmarker} you know , that 's nice and we 're sorta preceding to the next step , and , {vocalsound} it 'll mean some more work , uh , you know , in {disfmarker} in March in getting the proposal out , and then , it 's , uh , you know {disfmarker} We 'll see what happens . Uh , the last one was {disfmarker} that you had there , {comment} was about naming ?\n",
      "Grad B: Yep . It just , uh {disfmarker} we 've been cutting up sound files , in {disfmarker} for ba both digits and for , uh , doing recognition . And Liz had some suggestions on naming and it just brought up the whole issue that hasn't really been resolved about naming . So , uh , one thing she would like to have is for all the names to be the same length so that sorting is easier . Um ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: same number of characters so that when you 're sorting filenames you can easily extract out bits and pieces that you want . And that 's easy enough to do . And I don't think we have so many meetings that that 's a big deal just to change the names . So that means , uh , instead of calling it \" MR one \" , \" MR two \" , you 'd call it \" MRM zero zero one \" , \" MRM zero zero two \" , things like that . Just so that they 're {disfmarker} they 're all the same length .\n",
      "Postdoc F: But , you know , when you , do things like that you can always {disfmarker} as long as you have {disfmarker} uh , you can always search from the beginning or the end of the string .\nGrad B: The problem is that they 're a lot of fields .\nPostdoc F: You know , so \" zero zero two \" {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Alright ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nGrad B: so we {disfmarker} we have th we 're gonna have the speaker ID , the session , uh {disfmarker} uh , information on the microphones ,\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah , well , your example was really {disfmarker}\nGrad B: information on the speak on the channels and all that .\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc F: i\nGrad B: And so if each one of those is a fixed length , the sorting becomes a lot easier .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nGrad D: She wanted to keep them {vocalsound} the same lengths across different meetings also . So like , the NSA meeting lengths , {comment} all filenames are gonna be the same length as the Meeting Recorder meeting names ?\n",
      "Grad B: Yep . And as I said , the it 's {disfmarker} we just don't have that many that that 's a big deal .\nPhD G: Cuz of digits .\nGrad B: And so , uh , um , at some point we have to sort of take a few days off , let the transcribers have a few days off , make sure no one 's touching the data and reorganize the file structures . And when we do that we can also rationalize some of the naming .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I {disfmarker} I would think though that the transcribe {disfmarker} the transcripts themselves wouldn't need to have such lengthy names .\nGrad B: Right .\nPostdoc F: So , I mean , you 're dealing with a different domain there , and with start and end times and all that , and channels and stuff ,\nGrad B: Right . So the only thing that would change with that is just the directory names ,\nPostdoc F: so , it 's a different {pause} set .\n",
      "Grad B: I would change them to match . So instead of being MR one it would be MRM zero zero one . But I don't think that 's a big deal .\nPostdoc F: Fine . Fine .\n",
      "Grad B: So for {disfmarker} for m the meetings we were thinking about three letters and three numbers for meeting I Ds . Uh , for speakers , M or F and then three numbers , For , uh {disfmarker} and , uh , that also brings up the point that we have to start assembling a speaker database so that we get those links back and forth and keep it consistent . Um , and then , uh , the microphone issues . We want some way of specifying , more than looking in the \" key \" file , what channel and what mike . What channel , what mike , and what broadcaster . Or {disfmarker} I don't know how to s say it . So I mean with this one it 's this particular headset with this particular transmitter w {pause} as a wireless .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yep .\nGrad B: And you know that one is a different headset and different channel . And so we just need some naming conventions on that .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad B: And , uh ,\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\nGrad B: that 's gonna become especially important once we start changing the microphone set - up . We have some new microphones that I 'd like to start trying out , um , once I test them . And then we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll need to specify that somewhere . So I was just gonna do a fixed list of , uh , microphones and types .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nGrad B: So , as I said {disfmarker}\nPhD E: OK .\nPhD G: That sounds good .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Um , {pause} {vocalsound} since we have such a short agenda list I guess I wi I will ask how {disfmarker} how are the transcriptions going ? Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: The {disfmarker} the news is that I 've {disfmarker} I uh {disfmarker} s So {disfmarker} in s um {disfmarker} So I 've switched to {disfmarker} Start my new sentence . I {disfmarker} I switched to doing the channel - by - channel transcriptions to provide , uh , the {disfmarker} uh , tighter time bins for {disfmarker} partly for use in Thilo 's work and also it 's of relevance to other people in the project . And , um , I discovered in the process a couple of {disfmarker} of interesting things , which , um , one of them is that , um , it seems that there are time lags involved in doing this , uh , uh , using an interface that has so much more complexity to it . And I {disfmarker} and I wanted to maybe ask , uh , Chuck to help me with some of the questions of efficiency . Maybe {disfmarker} I was thinking maybe the best way to do this in the long run may be to give them single channel parts and then piece them together later . And I {disfmarker} I have a script , I can piece them together . I mean , so it 's like , I {disfmarker} I know that I can take them apart and put them together and I 'll end up with the representation which is where the real power of that interface is .\n",
      "Professor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And it may be that it 's faster to transcribe a channel at a time with only one , uh , sound file and one , uh , set of {disfmarker} of , uh , utterances to check through .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: I 'm a little confused . I thought that {disfmarker} that one of the reason we thought we were so much faster than {disfmarker} than , uh , the {disfmarker} the other transcription , uh , thing was that {disfmarker} that we were using the mixed {pause} file .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Oh , yes . OK . But , um , with the mixed , when you have an overlap , you only have a {disfmarker} a choice of one start and end time for that entire overlap , which means that you 're not tightly , uh , tuning the individual parts th of that overlap by different speakers .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: So someone may have only said two words in that entire big chunk of overlap .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And for purposes of {disfmarker} of , uh , things like {disfmarker} well , so things like training the speech - nonspeech segmentation thing .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Th - it 's necessary to have it more tightly tuned than that .\nProfessor A: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And w and w and , you know , is a It would be wonderful if , uh , it 's possible then to use that algorithm to more tightly tie in all the channels after that but , um , you know , I 've {disfmarker} th the {disfmarker} So , I I don't know exactly where that 's going at this point . But m I was experimenting with doing this by hand and I really do think that it 's wise that we 've had them start the way we have with , uh , m y working off the mixed signal , um , having the interface that doesn't require them to do the ti uh , the time bins for every single channel at a t uh , through the entire interaction .\n",
      "Professor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: Um , I did discover a couple other things by doing this though , and one of them is that , um , um , once in a while a backchannel will be overlooked by the transcriber .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: As you might expect ,\nProfessor A: Sure .\n",
      "Postdoc F: because when it 's a b backchannel could well happen in a very densely populated overlap . And if we 're gonna study types of overlaps , which is what I wanna do , an analysis of that , then that really does require listening {comment} to every single channel all the way through the entire {comment} length for all the different speakers . Now , for only four speakers , that 's not gonna be too much time , but if it 's nine speakers , then that i that is more time . So it 's li you know , kind of wondering {disfmarker} And I think again it 's like this {disfmarker} it 's really valuable that Thilo 's working on the speech - nonspeech segmentation because maybe , um , we can close in on that wi without having to actually go to the time that it would take to listen to every single channel from start to finish through every single meeting .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah , but those backchannels will always be a problem I think . Uh especially if they 're really short and they 're not very loud and so it {disfmarker} it can {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it will always happen that also the automatic s detection system will miss some of them , so .\nPostdoc F: OK . Well so then {disfmarker} then , maybe the answer is to , uh , listen especially densely in places of overlap ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: just so that they 're {disfmarker} they 're not being overlooked because of that , and count on accuracy during the sparser phases .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Cuz there are large s spaces of the {disfmarker} That 's a good point . There are large spaces where there 's no overlap at all . Someone 's giving a presentation ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: or whatever . That 's {disfmarker} that 's a good {disfmarker} that 's a good thought . And , um , let 's see , there was one other thing I was gonna say . I {disfmarker} I think it 's really interesting data to work with , I have to say , it 's very enjoyable . I really , not {disfmarker} not a problem spending time with these data . Really interesting . And not just because I 'm in there . No , it 's real interesting .\n",
      "Professor A: Uh , well I think it 's a short meeting . Uh , you 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're still in the midst of what you 're doing from what you described last time , I assume ,\nPhD C: Is true .\nPostdoc F: \nProfessor A: and {disfmarker}\nPhD C: I haven't results , eh , yet\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: but , eh , I {disfmarker} I 'm continue working with the mixed signal now , {comment} after the {disfmarker} the last experience .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD C: And {disfmarker} and I 'm tried to {disfmarker} to , uh , adjust the {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to improve , eh , an harmonicity , eh , detector that , eh , I {disfmarker} I implement .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: But I have problem because , eh , I get , eh , eh , very much harmonics now .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Um , harmonic {disfmarker} possi possible harmonics , uh , eh , and now I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm trying to {disfmarker} to find , eh , some kind of a , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of h of help , eh , using the energy to {disfmarker} to distinguish between possible harmonics , and {disfmarker} and other fre frequency peaks , that , eh , corres not harmonics . And , eh , I have to {disfmarker} to talk with y with you , with the group , eh , about the instantaneous frequency , because I have , eh , an algorithm , and , I get , mmm , eh , t t results {disfmarker} similar results , like , eh , the paper , eh , that I {disfmarker} I am following . But , eh , the {disfmarker} the rules , eh , that , eh , people used in the paper to {disfmarker} to distinguish the harmonics , is {disfmarker} doesn't work well .\n",
      "Professor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: And I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I not sure that i {vocalsound} eh , the {disfmarker} the way {disfmarker} o to {disfmarker} ob the way to obtain the {disfmarker} the instantaneous frequency is {pause} right , or it 's {disfmarker} it 's not right . Eh ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: I haven't enough file feeling to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to distinguish what happened .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah , I 'd like to talk with you about it . If {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if , uh {disfmarker} If I don't have enough time and y you wanna discuss with someone else {disfmarker} some someone else besides us that you might want to talk to , uh , might be Stephane .\nPhD C: Yeah . I talked with Stephane and {disfmarker} and Thilo\nProfessor A: Yeah and {disfmarker} and Thilo , yeah .\nPhD C: and ,\nProfessor A: Yeah , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: they {disfmarker} nnn they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {comment} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {vocalsound} didn't {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I 'm not too experienced with {vocalsound} harmonics\nProfessor A: I see .\nPhD C: they think that {comment} the experience is not enough to {disfmarker}\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Is {disfmarker} is this the algorithm where you hypothesize a fundamental , and then get the energy for all the harmonics of that fundamental ?\nPhD C: No , no it 's {disfmarker} No {disfmarker} No . No .\nPhD G: And then hypothesize a new fundamental and get the energy {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Yeah , that 's wh\n",
      "PhD C: No . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't proth process the {disfmarker} the fundamental . I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I , ehm {disfmarker} I calculate the {disfmarker} the phase derivate using the FFT .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: And {disfmarker} The algorithm said that , eh , {vocalsound} if you {disfmarker} if you change the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the , eh , nnn {disfmarker} the X - the frequency \" X \" , eh , using the in the instantaneous frequency , you can find , eh , how , eh , in several frequencies that proba probably the {disfmarker} the harmonics , eh ,\nProfessor A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD C: the errors of peaks {disfmarker} the frequency peaks , eh , eh , move around {pause} these , eh {disfmarker} eh frequency harmonic {disfmarker} the frequency of the harmonic . And , {vocalsound} eh , if you {disfmarker} if you compare the {disfmarker} the instantaneous frequency , {vocalsound} eh , {vocalsound} of the {disfmarker} of the , eh , continuous , eh , {vocalsound} eh , filters , that , eh {disfmarker} that , eh , they used eh , to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to get , eh , the {disfmarker} the instantaneous frequency ,\n",
      "Professor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: it probably too , you can find , {vocalsound} eh , that the instantaneous frequency {vocalsound} for the continuous , eh , {vocalsound} eh {disfmarker} the output of the continuous filters are very near . And in {pause} my case {disfmarker} i in {disfmarker} equal with our signal , {vocalsound} it doesn't happened .\nProfessor A: Yeah . I 'd hafta look at that and think about it .\nPhD C: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I haven't worked with that either so I 'm not sure {disfmarker} The way {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the simple - minded way I suggested was what Chuck was just saying , is that you could make a {disfmarker} a sieve . You know , y you actually say that here is {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: Let 's {disfmarker} let 's hypothesize that it 's this frequency or that frequency , and {disfmarker} and , uh , maybe you {disfmarker} maybe you could use some other cute methods to , uh , short cut it by {disfmarker} by uh , making some guesses ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: but {disfmarker} but uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh , I would , uh {disfmarker} I mean you could make some guesses from , uh {disfmarker} from the auto - correlation or something but {disfmarker} but then , given those guesses , try , um , uh , only looking at the energy at multiples of the {disfmarker} of that frequency , and {disfmarker} and see how much of the {disfmarker} take the one that 's maximum . Call that the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: Using the energy of the {disfmarker} of the multiple of the frequency .\nProfessor A: Of all the harmonics of that . Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD G: Do you hafta do some kind of , uh , low - pass filter before you do that ?\nPhD C: I don't use .\nPhD G: Or {disfmarker}\nPhD C: But , I {disfmarker} I know many people use , eh , low - pass filter to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to get , eh , the pitch .\nProfessor A: No . To get the pitch , yes .\n",
      "PhD C: I don't use . To get the pitch , yes .\nPhD E: To get the pitch , yeah .\nPhD C: But the harmonic , no .\nPhD G: But i But the harmonics are gonna be , uh , uh , I don't know what the right word is . Um , they 're gonna be dampened by the uh , vocal tract , right ? The response of the vocal tract .\nProfessor A: Yeah ?\nPhD C: Yeah ?\nPhD G: And so {disfmarker} just looking at the energy on those {disfmarker} at the harmonics , is that gonna {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Professor A: Well so the thing is that the {disfmarker} This is for , uh , a , um {disfmarker}\nPhD G: I m what you 'd like to do is get rid of the effect of the vocal tract . Right ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: And just look at the {disfmarker} at {disfmarker} at the signal coming out of the glottis .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Uh , well , yeah that 'd be good .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: But , uh {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but I don't know that you need to {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Open wide !\nProfessor A: but I don't need you {disfmarker} know if you need to get rid of it . I mean that 'd {disfmarker} that 'd be nice but I don't know if it 's ess if it 's essential . Um , I mean {disfmarker} cuz I think the main thing is that , uh , you 're trying {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Uh - huh .\nProfessor A: wha what are you doing this for ? You 're trying distinguish between the case where there is , uh {disfmarker} where {disfmarker} where there are more than {disfmarker} uh , where there 's more than one speaker and the case where there 's only one speaker .\nGrad B: Sorry .\n",
      "Professor A: So if there 's more than one speaker , um {disfmarker} yeah I guess you could {disfmarker} I guess {disfmarker} yeah you 're {disfmarker} so you 're not distinguished between voiced and unvoiced , so {disfmarker} so , i if you don't {disfmarker} if you don't care about that {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: See , if you also wanna {vocalsound} just determine {disfmarker} if you also wanna determine whether it 's unvoiced , {vocalsound} then I think you want to {pause} look {disfmarker} look at high frequencies also , because the f the fact that there 's more energy in the high frequencies is gonna be an ob sort of obvious cue that it 's unvoiced .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: But , i i uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean i i but , um , other than that I guess as far as the one person versus two persons , it would be {pause} primarily a low frequency phenomenon . And if you looked at the low frequencies , yes the higher frequencies are gonna {disfmarker} there 's gonna be a spectral slope . The higher frequencies will be lower energy . But so what . I mean {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} that 's w\n",
      "PhD C: I will prepare for the next week eh , all my results about the harmonicity and {pause} will {disfmarker} will try to come in and to discuss here , because , eh , I haven't enough feeling to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to u {vocalsound} many time to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to understand what happened with the {disfmarker} with , eh , so many peaks , eh , eh , and {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I see the harmonics there many time but , eh , {vocalsound} there are a lot of peaks , eh , that , eh , they are not harmonics .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: Um , I have to discover what {disfmarker} what is the {disfmarker} the w the best way to {disfmarker} to {comment} {disfmarker} to {comment} c to use them\n",
      "Professor A: Well , but {disfmarker} yeah I don't think you can {disfmarker} I mean you 're not gonna be able to look at every frame , so I mean {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean I {disfmarker} I really {disfmarker} I I really thought that the best way to do it , and I 'm speaking with no experience on this particular point , but , {vocalsound} my impression was that the best way to do it was however you {disfmarker} You 've used instantaneous frequency , whatever . {comment} However you 've come up {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} with your candidates , you wanna see how much of the energy is in that\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor A: as coppo as opposed to all of the {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} the total energy . And , um , if it 's voiced , I guess {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so y I think maybe you do need a voiced - unvoiced determination too . But if it 's voiced ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: um , and the , uh {disfmarker} e the fraction of the energy that 's in the harmonic sequence that you 're looking at is relatively low , then it should be {disfmarker} then it 's more likely to be an overlap .\n",
      "PhD C: Is height . Yeah . This {disfmarker} this is the idea {disfmarker} the idea I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I had to {disfmarker} to compare the {disfmarker} the ratio of the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the energy of the harmonics with the {disfmarker} eh , with the , eh , total energy in the spectrum and try to get a ratio to {disfmarker} to distinguish between overlapping and speech . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor A: But you 're looking a y you 're looking at {disfmarker} Let 's take a second with this . Uh , uh , you 're looking at f at the phase derivative , um , in {disfmarker} in , uh , what domain ? I mean this is {disfmarker} this is in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in bands ? Or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}\nPhD C: No , no , no .\nProfessor A: Just {disfmarker} just overall {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: It 's a {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} o i w the band {disfmarker} the band is , eh , from zero to {disfmarker} to four kilohertz . And I {disfmarker} I ot I {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: And you just take the instantaneous frequency ?\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . I u m t I {disfmarker} I used two m two method {disfmarker} two methods . Eh , one , eh , based on the F {disfmarker} eh , FTT . to FFT to {disfmarker} to obtain the {disfmarker} or to study the harmonics from {disfmarker} from the spectrum directly ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: and to study the energy and the multiples of\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: frequency . And another {disfmarker} another algorithm I have is the {disfmarker} in the {pause} instantaneous frequency , based on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on the FFT to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to calculate the {disfmarker} the phase derivate in the time . Eh , uh n the d I mean I {disfmarker} I have two {disfmarker} two algorithms .\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: But , eh , in m {pause} i in my opinion the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the instantaneous frequency , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the behavior , eh , was {disfmarker} th it was very interesting . Because I {disfmarker} I saw {vocalsound} eh , how the spectrum {pause} concentrate , eh ,\nProfessor A: Oh !\n",
      "PhD C: around the {disfmarker} the harmonic . But then when I apply the {disfmarker} the rule , eh , of the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} {pause} the instantaneous frequency of the ne of the continuous filter in the {disfmarker} the near filter , the {disfmarker} the rule that , eh , people propose in the paper doesn't work . And I don't know why .\n",
      "Professor A: But the instantaneous frequency , wouldn't that give you something more like the central frequency of the {disfmarker} you know , of the {disfmarker} where most of the energy is ? I mean , I think if you {disfmarker} Does i does it {disfmarker} Why would it correspond to pitch ?\nPhD C: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I not sure . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I try to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: When {vocalsound} first I {disfmarker} {pause} {vocalsound} I calculate , eh , using the FFT ,\nPostdoc F: Di - digital camera .\nPhD C: the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Keep forgetting .\nPhD C: I get the {disfmarker} {pause} the spectrum ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: and I represent all the frequency .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: And {disfmarker} when ou I obtained the instantaneous frequency . And I change {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the @ @ , using the instantaneous frequency , here .\nProfessor A: Oh , so you scale {disfmarker} you s you do a {disfmarker} a scaling along that axis according to instantaneous {disfmarker}\nPhD C: I use {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor A: It 's a kinda normalization .\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah . Because when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: OK .\n",
      "PhD C: eh , when i I {disfmarker} I use these {disfmarker} these frequency , eh , the range is different , and the resolution is different .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD C: And I observe more {disfmarker} more or less , thing like this . And the paper said that , eh , these frequencies are probably , eh , harmonics .\nProfessor A: I see . Huh .\n",
      "PhD C: But , eh , they used , eh , a rule , eh , based in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} because to {disfmarker} to calculate the instantaneous frequency , they use a Hanning window .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: And , they said that , eh , if {pause} these {pause} peak are , eh , harmonics , the f instantaneous frequency , of the contiguous , eh {disfmarker} w eh eh , filters are very near , or have to be very near . But , eh , phh ! I don't {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don I I {disfmarker} and I don't know what is the {disfmarker} what is the distance . And I tried to {disfmarker} to put different distance , eh , to put difference , eh {disfmarker} eh , length of the window , eh , different front sieve , Pfff ! and I {disfmarker} I not sure what happened .\n",
      "Professor A: OK , yeah well I {disfmarker} I guess I 'm not following it enough . I 'll {comment} probably gonna hafta look at the paper , but {disfmarker} which I 'm not gonna have time to do in the next few days , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm curious about it .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Um , uh , OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I I did i it did occur to me that this is {disfmarker} uh , the return to the transcription , that there 's one third thing I wanted to {disfmarker} to ex raise as a to as an issue which is , um , how to handle breaths . So , I wanted to raise the question of whether people in speech recognition want to know where the breaths are . And the reason I ask the question is , um , aside from the fact that they 're obviously very time - consuming to encode , uh , the fact that there was some {disfmarker} I had the indication from Dan Ellis in the email that I sent to you ,\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: and you know about , that in principle we might be able to , um , handle breaths by accessi by using cross - talk from the other things , be able that {disfmarker} in principle , maybe we could get rid of them , so maybe {disfmarker} And I was {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know , I mean we had this an and I didn't {disfmarker} couldn't get back to you ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: but the question of whether it 'd be possible to eliminate them from the audio signal , which would be the ideal situation ,\nProfessor A: I don't know {disfmarker} think it 'd be ideal .\nPostdoc F: cuz {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Uh - uh .\nProfessor A: We - See , we 're {disfmarker} we 're dealing with real speech and we 're trying to have it be as real as possible\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: and breaths are part of real speech .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well , except that these are really truly {disfmarker} I mean , ther there 's a segment in o the one I did {disfmarker} n the first one that I did for {disfmarker} i for this ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: where truly w we 're hearing you breathing like {disfmarker} as if we 're {disfmarker} you 're in our ear , you know , and it 's like {disfmarker} it 's like {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I y i I mean , breath is natural , but not\n",
      "Professor A: It is {disfmarker} but it is if you record it .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Except that we 're {disfmarker} we 're trying to mimic {disfmarker} Oh , I see what you 're saying . You 're saying that the PDA application would have {disfmarker} uh , have to cope with breath .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad B: Well\nPhD E: No .\nPostdoc F: But {disfmarker}\nPhD G: An - any application may have to .\nGrad B: The P D A might not have to ,\n",
      "PhD E: No {disfmarker} i\nGrad B: but more people than just PDA users are interested in this corpus .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad B: So {disfmarker} so mean you 're right\nPostdoc F: OK , then the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} I have two questions .\nGrad B: we could remove it ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah ?\nGrad B: but I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} we don't wanna w remove it from the corpus , {pause} in terms of delivering it because the {disfmarker} people will want it in there .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . If it gets {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: OK , so maybe the question is notating it . Yeah ?\nProfessor A: Yeah {disfmarker} i Right . If {disfmarker} if it gets in the way of what somebody is doing with it then you might wanna have some method which will allow you to block it , but you {disfmarker} it 's real data . You don't wanna b but you don't {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: OK , well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: If s you know , if there 's a little bit of noise out there , and somebody is {disfmarker} is talking about something they 're doing , that 's part of what we accept as part of a real meeting , even {disfmarker} And we have the f uh {disfmarker} the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the fan and the {disfmarker} in the projector up there , and , uh , this is {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} this is actual stuff that we {disfmarker} we wanna work with .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well this is in very interesting\nProfessor A: So .\nPostdoc F: because i it basically has a i it shows very clearly the contrast between , uh , speech recognition research and discourse research because in {disfmarker} in discourse and linguistic research , what counts is what 's communit communicative .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And {disfmarker} breath , you know , everyone breathes , they breathe all the time . And once in a while breath is communicative , but r very rarely . OK , so now , I had a discussion with Chuck about the data structure\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: and the idea is that the transcripts will {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} get stored as a master there 'll be a master transcript which has in it everything that 's needed for both of these uses .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And the one that 's used for speech recognition will be processed via scripts . You know , like , Don 's been writing scripts\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: and {disfmarker} and , uh , to process it for the speech recognition side . Discourse side will {vocalsound} have this {disfmarker} this side over he the {disfmarker} we we 'll have a s ch Sorry , not being very fluent here . But , um , this {disfmarker} the discourse side will have a script which will stri strip away the things which are non - communicative . OK . So then the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} let 's think about the practicalities of how we get to that master copy with reference to breaths . So what I would {disfmarker} r r what I would wonder is would it be possible to encode those automatically ? Could we get a breath detector ?\n",
      "Grad B: Oh , just to save the transcribers time .\nPostdoc F: Well , I mean , you just have no idea . I mean , if you 're getting a breath several times every minute ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: and just simply the keystrokes it takes to negotiate , to put the boundaries in , to {disfmarker} to type it in , i it 's just a huge amount of time .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Oops .\nProfessor A: Wh - what {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And you wanna be sure it 's used , and you wanna be sure it 's done as efficiently as possible , and if it can be done automatically , that would be ideal .\nProfessor A: what if you put it in but didn't put the boundaries ?\nPostdoc F: Well , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: So you just know it 's between these other things ,\nPostdoc F: Well , OK . So now there 's {disfmarker} there 's another {disfmarker} another possibility\nProfessor A: right ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: which is , um , the time boundaries could mark off words {comment} from nonwords . And that would be extremely time - effective , if that 's sufficient .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah I mean I 'm think if it 's too {disfmarker} if it 's too hard for us to annotate the breaths per se , {vocalsound} we are gonna be building up models for these things and these things are somewhat self - aligning , so if {disfmarker} so , {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} i i if we say there is some kind of a thing which we call a \" breath \" or a \" breath - in \" or \" breath - out \" , {vocalsound} the models will learn that sort of thing . Uh , so {disfmarker} but you {disfmarker} but you do want them to point them at some region where {disfmarker} where the breaths really are . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: OK . But that would maybe include a pause as well ,\nPhD G: Well , there 's a there 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: and that wouldn't be a problem to have it , uh , pause plus breath plus laugh plus sneeze ?\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah , i You know there is {disfmarker} there 's this dynamic tension between {disfmarker} between marking absolutely everything , as you know , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and marking just a little bit and counting on the statistical methods . Basically the more we can mark the better . But if there seems to be a lot of effort for a small amount of reward in some area , and this might be one like this {disfmarker} Although I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'd be interested to h get {disfmarker} get input from Liz and Andreas on this to see if they {disfmarker} Cuz they 've - they 've got lots of experience with the breaths in {disfmarker} in , uh , uh , their transcripts .\n",
      "Grad B: They have lots of experience with breathing ?\nPhD G: I {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Actually {disfmarker} Well , {vocalsound} yes they do , but we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we can handle that without them here . But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but , uh , you were gonna say something about {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I think , um , one possible way that we could handle it is that , um , you know , as the transcribers are going through , and if they get a hunk of speech that they 're gonna transcribe , u th they 're gonna transcribe it because there 's words in there or whatnot . If there 's a breath in there , they could transcribe that .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: That 's what they 've been doing . So , within an overlap segment , they {disfmarker} they do this .\n",
      "PhD G: Right . But {disfmarker} Right . But if there 's a big hunk of speech , let 's say on Morgan 's mike where he 's not talking at all , um , don't {disfmarker} don't worry about that .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: So what we 're saying is , there 's no guarantee that , um {disfmarker} So for the chunks that are transcribed , everything 's transcribed . But outside of those boundaries , there could have been stuff that wasn't transcribed . So you just {disfmarker} somebody can't rely on that data and say \" that 's perfectly clean data \" . Uh {disfmarker} do you see what I 'm saying ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah , you 're saying it 's {disfmarker} uncharted territory .\n",
      "PhD G: So I would say don't tell them to transcribe anything that 's outside of a grouping of words .\nProfessor A: That sounds like a reasonable {disfmarker} reasonable compromise .\nPhD E: Yeah , and that 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that quite co corresponds to the way I {disfmarker} I try to train the speech - nonspeech detector , as I really try to {disfmarker} not to detect those breaths which are not within a speech chunk but with {disfmarker} which are just in {disfmarker} in a silence region .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: And they {disfmarker} so they hopefully won't be marked in {disfmarker} in those channel - specific files .\nProfessor A: u I {disfmarker} I wanted to comment a little more just for clarification about this business about the different purposes .\nPhD E: But {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yeah , so {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: See , in a {disfmarker} in a way this is a really key point , that for speech recognition , uh , research , uh , um , e a {disfmarker} it 's not just a minor part . In fact , the {disfmarker} I think I would say the core thing that we 're trying to do is to recognize the actual , meaningful components in the midst of other things that are not meaningful . So it 's critical {disfmarker} it 's not just incidental it 's critical for us to get these other components that are not meaningful . Because that 's what we 're trying to pull the other out of . That 's our problem . If we had nothing {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: if we had only linguistically - relevant things {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if we only had changes in the spectrum that were associated with words , with different spectral components , and , uh , we {disfmarker} we didn't have noise , we didn't have convolutional errors , we didn't have extraneous , uh , behaviors , and so forth , and {vocalsound} moving your head and all these sorts of things , then , actually speech recognition i i isn't that bad right now . I mean you can you know it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} the technology 's come along pretty well .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor A: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the reason we still complain about it is because is {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when you have more realistic conditions then {disfmarker} then things fall apart .\n",
      "Postdoc F: OK , fair enough . I guess , um , I {disfmarker} uh , what I was wondering is what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} at what level does the breathing aspect enter into the problem ? Because if it were likely that a PDA would be able to be built which would get rid of the breathing , so it wouldn't even have to be processed at thi at this computational le well , let me see , it 'd have to be computationally processed to get rid of it , but if there were , uh , like likely on the frontier , a good breath extractor then , um , and then you 'd have to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: But that 's a research question , you know ? And so {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Yeah , well , see and that 's what I wouldn't know .\n",
      "Professor A: that {disfmarker} And we don't either . I mean so {disfmarker} so the thing is it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} right now it 's just raw d it 's just data that we 're collecting , and so {vocalsound} we don't wanna presuppose that people will be able to get rid of particular degradations because that 's actually the research that we 're trying to feed . So , you know , an and maybe {disfmarker} maybe in five years it 'll work really well ,\nPostdoc F: OK .\n",
      "Professor A: and {disfmarker} and it 'll only mess - up ten percent of the time , but then we would still want to account for that ten percent , so .\nPostdoc F: I guess there 's another aspect which is that as we 've improved our microphone technique , we have a lot less breath in the {disfmarker} in the more recent , uh , recordings , so it 's {disfmarker} in a way it 's an artifact that there 's so much on the {disfmarker} on the earlier ones .\nProfessor A: Uh - huh . I see .\n",
      "PhD G: One of the {disfmarker} um , just to add to this {disfmarker} one of the ways that we will be able to get rid of breath is by having models for them . I mean , that 's what a lot of people do nowadays .\nProfessor A: Right .\nGrad B: Right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD G: And so in order to build the model you need to have some amount of it marked , so that you know where the boundaries are .\nPhD C: Hmm .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: So {disfmarker} I mean , I don't think we need to worry a lot about breaths that are happening outside of a , you know , conversation . We don't have to go and search for them to {disfmarker} to mark them at all , but , I mean , if they 're there while they 're transcribing some hunk of words , I 'd say put them in if possible .\nPostdoc F: OK , and it 's also the fact that they differ a lot from one channel to the other because of the way the microphone 's adjusted .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 16977,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 43,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The participants discussed results from the experiments that had been conducted. Switching between tasks in the same language had smaller errors than multilingual models. The professor thought that increasing the parameters of the net for larger multi-lingual models would be helpful. The team decided that they should experiment further with different linguistic features. They also discussed how they could speed up their work by relying on greater computational resources.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor B: OK .\nPhD C: Oh , I don't {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I think I 'm zero .\nProfessor B: Wow ! Unprecedented .\nPhD C: Hello , hello , hello , hello .\nPhD E: Ah\nGrad F: Wh - what causes the crash ?\nPhD A: Did you fix something ?\nPhD C: Hello .\nPhD E: Five , five .\nPhD C: Hello , hello .\nGrad F: Oh , maybe it 's the turning {disfmarker} turning off and turning on of the mike , right ?\nProfessor B: Uh , you think that 's you ? Oh .\n",
      "PhD C: Aaa - aaa - aaa .\nGrad F: Yeah , OK , mine 's working .\nPhD C: OK . That 's me .\nProfessor B: OK . OK . So , um I guess we are {pause} um {pause} gonna do the digits at the end . Uh\nPhD D: Channel {disfmarker} channel three , yeah .\nPhD C: Channel two .\nPhD D: OK .\nPhD E: Mmm , channel five ? Doesn't work ?\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , that 's the mike number there , uh {pause} Uh , mike number five , and {pause} channel {disfmarker} channel four .\nPhD C: Two .\nPhD A: Is it written on her sheet , I believe .\nPhD E: No ? Ah ,\nPhD D: Mike four .\nGrad F: Watch this .\nPhD E: era el cuatro .\nGrad F: Yep , that 's me .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD A: But , channel\nPhD E: Yeah yeah yeah .\nProfessor B: This is you .\n",
      "PhD E: OK . I saw that . Ah {disfmarker} yeah , it 's OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . And I 'm channel uh two I think ,\nPhD C: Ooo .\nProfessor B: or channel {disfmarker}\nPhD C: I think I 'm channel two .\nProfessor B: Oh , I 'm channel {disfmarker} must be channel one . Channel one ?\nPhD E: Channel {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I decided to talk about that .\n",
      "Professor B: Yes , OK . OK . So uh {pause} I also copied uh the results that we all got in the mail I think from uh {disfmarker} {pause} from OGI and we 'll go {disfmarker} go through them also . So where are we on {disfmarker} {pause} on uh {vocalsound} {pause} our runs ?\nPhD D: Uh so . {pause} uh {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} So {pause} As I was already said , we {disfmarker} we mainly focused on uh four kind of features .\nProfessor B: Excuse me .\n",
      "PhD D: The PLP , the PLP with JRASTA , the MSG , and the MFCC from the baseline Aurora .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , and we focused for the {disfmarker} the test part on the English and the Italian . Um . We 've trained uh several neural networks on {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} on the TI - digits English {pause} and on the Italian data and also on the broad uh {pause} English uh French and uh Spanish databases . Mmm , so there 's our result tables here , for the tandem approach , and um , actually what we {disfmarker} we @ @ observed is that if the network is trained on the task data it works pretty well .\n",
      "Professor B: OK . Our {disfmarker} our uh {disfmarker} {pause} There 's a {disfmarker} {pause} We 're pausing for a photo {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Chicken on the grill . Try that corner .\nPhD A: How about over th from the front of the room ?\nPhD C: Yeah , it 's longer .\nProfessor B: We 're pausing for a photo opportunity here . Uh . {vocalsound} Uh . So .\nGrad F: Oh wait wait wait wait wait . Wait .\nPhD C: Get out of the {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Hold on . Hold on .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad F: Let me give you a black screen .\nProfessor B: He 's facing this way . What ? OK , this {disfmarker} this would be a {pause} good section for our silence detection .\nGrad F: OK .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Um Oh .\nGrad F: Musical chairs everybody !\nProfessor B: OK . So um , {pause} you were saying {pause} about the training data {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , so if the network is trained on the task data um {pause} tandem works pretty well . And uh actually we have uh , results are similar Only on ,\nPhD A: Do you mean if it 's trained only on {disfmarker} On data from just that task ,\nPhD D: yeah .\nPhD A: that language ?\nPhD D: Just that task . But actually we didn't train network on {pause} uh both types of data I mean {pause} uh {pause} phonetically ba phonetically balanced uh data and task data .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD D: We only did either task {disfmarker} task data or {pause} uh broad {pause} data .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Um {pause} Yeah . So ,\nProfessor B: So how {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} clearly it 's gonna be good then\nPhD A: So what 's th\n",
      "Professor B: but the question is how much {pause} worse is it {pause} if you have broad data ? I mean , {pause} my assump From what I saw from the earlier results , uh I guess last week , {pause} was that um , {pause} if you {pause} trained on one language and tested on another , say , that {pause} the results were {disfmarker} were relatively poor .\nPhD D: Mmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: But {disfmarker} but the question is if you train on one language {pause} but you have a broad coverage {pause} and then test in another , {pause} does that {disfmarker} {pause} is that improve things {pause} i c in comparison ?\nPhD D: If we use the same language ?\nProfessor B: No , no , no . Different lang So {pause} um {pause} If you train on TI - digits {pause} and test on Italian digits , {pause} you do poorly , {pause} let 's say .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I don't have the numbers in front of me ,\nPhD D: But {disfmarker} Yeah but I did not uh do that .\nProfessor B: so I 'm just imagining . E So , you didn't train on {pause} TIMIT and test on {disfmarker} {pause} on Italian digits , say ?\n",
      "PhD D: We {disfmarker} No , we did four {disfmarker} four kind of {disfmarker} of testing , actually . The first testing is {pause} with task data {disfmarker} So , with nets trained on task data . So for Italian on the Italian speech @ @ . The second test is trained on a single language um with broad database , but the same language as the t task data .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: But for Italian we choose Spanish which {pause} we assume is close to Italian . The third test is by using , um the three language database\n",
      "Professor B: W which in {disfmarker}\nPhD D: and the fourth is\nProfessor B: It has three languages . That 's including the w the {disfmarker} {pause} the {disfmarker}\nPhD D: This includes {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: the one that it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: In\nPhD D: But {pause} not digits . I mean it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: The three languages {pause} is not digits ,\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: it 's the broad {pause} data . OK .\nPhD D: Yeah And the fourth test is uh {pause} excluding from these three languages the language {pause} that is {pause} the task language .\nProfessor B: Oh , OK , yeah , so , that is what I wanted to know .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I just wasn't saying it very well , I guess .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , yeah . So um {pause} for uh TI - digits for ins example {pause} uh when we go from TI - digits training to {pause} TIMIT training {pause} uh we lose {pause} uh around ten percent , uh . The error rate increase u of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of ten percent , relative .\nProfessor B: Relative . Right .\nPhD D: So this is not so bad . And then when we jump to the multilingual data it 's uh it become worse and , well Around uh , let 's say , {pause} twenty perc twenty percent further .\n",
      "Professor B: Ab - about how much ?\nPhD D: So . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Twenty percent further ?\nPhD D: Twenty to {disfmarker} to thirty percent further . Yeah .\nPhD A: And so , remind me , the multilingual stuff is just the broad data . Right ? It 's not the digits .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: So it 's the combination of {pause} two things there . It 's {pause} removing the {pause} task specific {pause} training and {pause} it 's adding other languages .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: But the first step is al already removing the task s specific from {disfmarker} from {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Already , right right right .\nPhD D: So .\nPhD A: So they were sort of building {pause} here ?\nPhD D: And we lose {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK ?\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Uh {pause} So , basically when it 's trained on the {disfmarker} the multilingual broad data {pause} um or number {disfmarker} so , the {disfmarker} the {pause} ratio of our error rates uh with the {pause} baseline error rate is around {pause} uh one point one .\nProfessor B: Yes . {vocalsound} And it 's something like one point three of {disfmarker} of the {pause} uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So .\n",
      "Professor B: I i if you compare everything to the first case at the baseline , you get something like one point one for the {disfmarker} for the using the same language but a different task , and something like one point three {pause} for three {disfmarker} three languages {pause} broad stuff .\nPhD D: No no no . Uh same language we are at uh {disfmarker} for at English at O point eight . So it improves , {pause} compared to the baseline . But {disfmarker} So . Le - let me .\nProfessor B: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry .\n",
      "PhD D: Tas - task data\nProfessor B: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I meant something different by baseline\nPhD D: we are u Yeah .\nProfessor B: So let me {disfmarker} let me {disfmarker} Um , {pause} so , {pause} um {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: OK , fine . Let 's {disfmarker} let 's use the conventional meaning of baseline .\nPhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} By baseline here I meant {pause} uh using the task specific data .\nPhD D: Oh yeah , the f Yeah , OK .\nProfessor B: But uh {disfmarker} {pause} uh , because that 's what you were just doing with this ten percent .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So I was just {disfmarker} I just trying to understand that .\nPhD D: Yeah . Sure .\n",
      "Professor B: So if we call {pause} a factor of w just one , just normalized to one , the word error rate {pause} that you have {pause} for using TI - digits as {disfmarker} as {pause} training and TI - digits as test ,\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: uh different words , I 'm sure ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker} {pause} but uh , uh the same {pause} task and so on .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: If we call that \" one \" , {pause} then what you 're saying is {pause} that the word error rate {pause} for the same language but using {pause} uh different training data than you 're testing on , say TIMIT and so forth , {pause} it 's one point one .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Yeah , it 's around one point one .\nProfessor B: Right . And if it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: you {pause} do {pause} go to {pause} three languages including the English , {pause} it 's something like one point three . That 's what you were just saying , I think .\nPhD D: Ye Uh , more actually .\nPhD A: One point four ?\nPhD D: If I {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD A: So , it 's an additional thirty percent .\nPhD D: What would you say ? Around one point four\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: yeah .\nProfessor B: And if you exclude {pause} English , {pause} from this combination , what 's that ?\n",
      "PhD D: If we exclude English , {pause} um {pause} there is {pause} not much difference with the {pause} data with English .\nProfessor B: Aha !\nPhD D: So . Yeah .\nProfessor B: That 's interesting . {pause} That 's interesting . Do you see ? Because {disfmarker} Uh ,\nPhD D: Uh .\n",
      "Professor B: so {disfmarker} No , that {disfmarker} that 's important . So what {disfmarker} what it 's saying here is just that \" yes , there is a reduction {pause} in performance , {pause} when you don't {pause} um {pause} have the s {pause} when you don't have {pause} um\nPhD A: Task data .\nProfessor B: Wait a minute , th th the {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: No , actually {pause} it 's interesting . So it 's {disfmarker} So when you go to a different task , there 's actually not so {pause} different . It 's when you went to these {disfmarker} So what 's the difference between two and three ? Between the one point one case and the one point four case ? I 'm confused .\nPhD A: It 's multilingual .\nPhD D: Yeah . The only difference it 's {disfmarker} is that it 's multilingual {disfmarker} Um\n",
      "Professor B: Cuz in both {disfmarker} in both {disfmarker} both of those cases , you don't have the same task .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah sure .\nProfessor B: So is {disfmarker} is the training data for the {disfmarker} for this one point four case {disfmarker} does it include the training data for the one point one case ?\nPhD D: Uh yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah , a fraction of it .\nPhD D: A part of it , yeah .\nProfessor B: How m how much bigger is it ?\nPhD D: Um {pause} It 's two times ,\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , um .\nPhD D: actually ? Yeah . Um . The English data {disfmarker} {pause} No , the multilingual databases are two times the {pause} broad English {pause} data . We just wanted to keep this , w well , not too huge . So .\nProfessor B: So it 's two times , but it includes the {disfmarker} but it includes the broad English data .\nPhD D: I think so . Do you {disfmarker} Uh , Yeah .\nProfessor B: And the broad English data is what you got this one point one {pause} with . So that 's TIMIT basically right ?\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So it 's band - limited TIMIT . This is all eight kilohertz sampling .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad F: Downs Right .\nProfessor B: So you have band - limited TIMIT , {pause} gave you uh almost as good as a result as using TI - digits {pause} on a TI - digits test . OK ?\nPhD D: Hmm ?\n",
      "Professor B: Um {pause} and {pause} um But , {pause} when you add in more training data but keep the neural net the same size , {pause} it {pause} um performs worse on the TI - digits . OK , now all of this is {disfmarker} {pause} This is noisy {pause} TI - digits , I assume ? Both training and test ?\nPhD D: \n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . OK . Um OK . Well . {pause} We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we may just need to uh {disfmarker} So I mean it 's interesting that h going to a different {disfmarker} different task didn't seem to hurt us that much , and going to a different language um It doesn't seem to matter {disfmarker} The difference between three and four is not particularly great , so that means that {pause} whether you have the language in or not is not such a big deal .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: It sounds like um {pause} uh {pause} we may need to have more {pause} of uh things that are similar to a target language or {disfmarker} I mean . {pause} You have the same number of parameters in the neural net , you haven't increased the size of the neural net , and maybe there 's just {disfmarker} {pause} just not enough {pause} complexity to it to represent {pause} the variab increased variability in the {disfmarker} in the training set . That {disfmarker} that could be . Um {pause} So , what about {disfmarker} So these are results with {pause} uh th {pause} that you 're describing now , that {pause} they are pretty similar for the different features or {disfmarker} {pause} or uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , let me check . Uh .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: So . This was for the PLP ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Um . The {disfmarker} Yeah . For the PLP with JRASTA the {disfmarker} {pause} the {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} This is quite the same {pause} tendency , {pause} with a slight increase of the error rate , {pause} uh if we go to {disfmarker} to TIMIT . And then it 's {disfmarker} it gets worse with the multilingual . Um . Yeah . There {disfmarker} there is a difference actually with {disfmarker} b between PLP and JRASTA is that {pause} JRASTA {pause} seems to {pause} perform better with the highly mismatched {pause} condition {pause} but slightly {disfmarker} slightly worse {pause} for the well matched condition . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I have a suggestion , actually , even though it 'll delay us slightly , would {disfmarker} would you mind {pause} running into the other room and making {pause} copies of this ? Cuz we 're all sort of {disfmarker} If we c if we could look at it , while we 're talking , I think it 'd be\nPhD D: Yeah , yeah . OK .\nProfessor B: uh {disfmarker} {pause} Uh , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll sing a song or dance or something while you {vocalsound} do it , too .\n",
      "PhD A: So um {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Alright .\nPhD A: Go ahead . Ah , while you 're gone I 'll ask s some of my questions .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Um .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Uh , this way and just slightly to the left , yeah .\nPhD A: The um {disfmarker} What was {disfmarker} Was this number {pause} forty or {disfmarker} It was roughly the same as this one , {pause} he said ? When you had the two language versus the three language ?\nProfessor B: Um . That 's what he was saying .\n",
      "PhD A: That 's where he removed English ,\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD A: right ?\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad F: It sometimes , actually , depends on what features you 're using .\nProfessor B: Yeah . But {disfmarker} but i it sounds like {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Um , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} He {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean . That 's interesting because {pause} it {disfmarker} it seems like what it 's saying is not so much that you got hurt {pause} uh because {pause} you {pause} uh didn't have so much representation of English , because in the other case you don't get hurt any more , at least when {pause} it seemed like uh it {disfmarker} it might simply be a case that you have something that is just much more diverse ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but you have the same number of parameters representing it .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm . I wonder {disfmarker} were um all three of these nets {pause} using the same output ? This multi - language {pause} uh labelling ?\nGrad F: He was using uh sixty - four phonemes from {pause} SAMPA .\nPhD A: OK , OK .\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: So this would {disfmarker} {pause} From this you would say , \" well , it doesn't really matter if we put Finnish {pause} into {pause} the training of the neural net , {pause} if there 's {pause} gonna be , {pause} you know , Finnish in the test data . \" Right ?\nProfessor B: Well , it 's {disfmarker} it sounds {disfmarker} {pause} I mean , we have to be careful , cuz we haven't gotten a good result yet .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And comparing different bad results can be {pause} tricky .\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: But I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {pause} I think it does suggest that it 's not so much uh {pause} uh cross {pause} language as cross type of speech .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But we did {disfmarker} Oh yeah , the other thing I was asking him , though , is that I think that in the case {disfmarker} Yeah , you {disfmarker} you do have to be careful because of com compounded results . I think we got some earlier results {pause} in which you trained on one language and tested on another and you didn't have {pause} three , but you just had one {pause} language . So you trained on {pause} one type of digits and tested on another . Didn - Wasn't there something of that ? Where you , {pause} say , trained on Spanish and tested on {disfmarker} on TI - digits , or the other way around ? Something like that ?\n",
      "PhD E: No .\nProfessor B: I thought there was something like that , {pause} that he showed me {pause} last week . We 'll have to wait till we get {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah , that would be interesting .\nProfessor B: Um , This may have been what I was asking before , Stephane , but {disfmarker} {pause} but , um , wasn't there something that you did , {pause} where you trained {pause} on one language and tested on another ? I mean no {disfmarker} no mixture but just {disfmarker}\nGrad F: I 'll get it for you .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , no , no .\nProfessor B: We 've never just trained on one lang\nPhD D: Training on a single language , you mean , and testing on the other one ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Uh , no .\nPhD E: Not yet .\nPhD D: So the only {pause} task that 's similar to this is the training on two languages , and {comment} that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: But we 've done a bunch of things where we just trained on one language . Right ? I mean , you haven't {disfmarker} you haven't done all your tests on multiple languages .\nPhD D: Uh , No . Either thi this is test with {pause} uh the same language {pause} but from the broad data , or it 's test with {pause} uh different languages also from the broad data , excluding the {disfmarker} So , it 's {disfmarker} it 's three or {disfmarker} three and four .\nPhD E: The early experiment that {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Did you do different languages from digits ?\nPhD D: Uh . No . You mean {pause} training digits {pause} on one language and using the net {pause} to recognize on the other ?\nPhD A: Digits on another language ?\nPhD D: No .\nProfessor B: See , I thought you showed me something like that last week . You had a {disfmarker} you had a little {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh , {pause} No , I don't think so .\nProfessor B: Um What {disfmarker}\nPhD C: These numbers are uh {pause} ratio to baseline ?\n",
      "Professor B: So , I mean wha what 's the {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So .\nProfessor B: This {disfmarker} this chart {disfmarker} this table that we 're looking at {pause} is um , show is all testing for TI - digits , or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad F: Bigger is worse .\nPhD D: So you have uh basically two {pause} uh parts .\nGrad F: This is error rate , I think .\nPhD C: Ratio .\nGrad F: No . {pause} No .\nPhD D: The upper part is for TI - digits\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nPhD D: and it 's divided in three {pause} rows {pause} of four {disfmarker} four rows each .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: And the first four rows is well - matched , then the s the second group of four rows is mismatched , and {pause} finally highly mismatched . And then the lower part is for Italian and it 's the same {disfmarker} {pause} the same thing .\nPhD A: So , so the upper part is training {pause} TI - digits ?\n",
      "PhD D: So . It 's {disfmarker} it 's the HTK results , I mean . So it 's {pause} HTK training testings {pause} with different kind of features\nPhD A: Ah .\nPhD D: and what appears in the {pause} uh left column is {pause} the networks that are used for doing this .\nProfessor B: Hmm .\nPhD D: So . Uh Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Well , What was is that i What was it that you had {pause} done {pause} last week when you showed {disfmarker} Do you remember ? Wh - when you showed me {pause} the {disfmarker} your table last week ?\nPhD D: It - It was part of these results . Mmm . Mmm .\nPhD A: So where is the baseline {pause} for the TI - digits {pause} located in here ?\nPhD D: You mean the HTK Aurora baseline ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: It 's uh the one hundred number . It 's , well , all these numbers are the ratio {pause} with respect to the baseline .\nPhD A: Ah ! Ah , OK , OK .\nProfessor B: So this is word {disfmarker} word error rate , so a high number is bad .\nPhD D: Yeah , this is {pause} a word error rate ratio .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD A: OK , I see .\nPhD D: Yeah . So , seventy point two means that {pause} we reduced the error rate uh by thirty {disfmarker} thirty percent .\n",
      "PhD A: OK , OK , gotcha .\nPhD D: So .\nProfessor B: OK , {vocalsound} so if we take\nPhD D: Hmm .\nProfessor B: uh um let 's see PLP {pause} uh with on - line {pause} normalization and {pause} delta - del so that 's this thing you have circled here {pause} in the second column ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: um {pause} and \" multi - English \" refers to what ?\n",
      "PhD D: To TIMIT . Mmm . Then you have {pause} uh MF , {pause} MS and ME which are for French , Spanish and English . And , yeah . Actually I {disfmarker} {pause} I uh forgot to say that {pause} the multilingual net are trained {pause} on {pause} uh {pause} features without the s derivatives uh but with {pause} increased frame numbers . Mmm . And we can {disfmarker} we can see on the first line of the table that it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {pause} it 's slightly {disfmarker} slightly worse when we don't use delta but it 's not {disfmarker} {pause} not that much .\n",
      "Professor B: Right . So w w So , I 'm sorry . I missed that . What 's MF , MS and ME ?\nPhD A: Multi - French , Multi - Spanish\nPhD D: So . Multi - French , Multi - Spanish , and Multi - English .\nProfessor B: Uh OK . So , it 's {pause} uh {pause} broader vocabulary . Then {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: OK so I think what I 'm {disfmarker} what I saw in your smaller chart that I was thinking of was {disfmarker} was {pause} there were some numbers I saw , I think , that included these multiple languages and it {disfmarker} and I was seeing {pause} that it got worse . I {disfmarker} I think that was all it was . You had some very limited results that {disfmarker} at that point\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: which showed {pause} having in these {disfmarker} these other languages . In fact it might have been just this last category , {pause} having two languages broad that were {disfmarker} where {disfmarker} where English was removed . So that was cross language and the {disfmarker} and the result was quite poor . What I {disfmarker} {pause} we hadn't seen yet was that if you added in the English , it 's still poor .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um now , what 's the noise condition {pause} um {pause} of the training data {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Still poor .\nProfessor B: Well , I think this is what you were explaining . The noise condition is the same {disfmarker} It 's the same uh Aurora noises uh , in all these cases {pause} for the training .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: So there 's not a {pause} statistical {disfmarker} sta a strong st {pause} statistically different {pause} noise characteristic between {pause} uh the training and test\nPhD D: No these are the s s s same noises ,\nProfessor B: and yet we 're seeing some kind of effect {disfmarker}\nPhD D: yeah . At least {disfmarker} at least for the first {disfmarker} {pause} for the well - matched ,\nGrad F: Well matched condition .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: So there 's some kind of a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} an effect from having these {disfmarker} uh this broader coverage um Now I guess what we should try doing with this is try {pause} testing these on u this same sort of thing on {disfmarker} you probably must have this {pause} lined up to do . To try the same t {pause} with the exact same training , do testing on {pause} the other languages .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: On {disfmarker} on um {disfmarker} So . Um , oh I well , wait a minute . You have this here , for the Italian . That 's right . OK , so , {pause} So .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Yeah , so for the Italian the results are {vocalsound} uh {pause} stranger um {pause} Mmm . So what appears is that perhaps Spanish is {pause} not very close to Italian because uh , well , {pause} when using the {disfmarker} the network trained only on Spanish it 's {disfmarker} {pause} the error rate is {pause} almost uh twice {pause} the baseline error rate .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Mmm . {vocalsound} Uh .\n",
      "Professor B: Well , I mean , let 's see . Is there any difference in {disfmarker} So it 's in {pause} the uh {disfmarker} So you 're saying that {pause} when you train on English {pause} and {pause} uh {pause} and {disfmarker} and test on {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: No , you don't have training on English testing {disfmarker}\nPhD D: There {disfmarker} there is {disfmarker} another difference , is that the noise {disfmarker} the noises are different .\n",
      "Professor B: In {disfmarker} in what ?\nPhD D: Well , For {disfmarker} for the Italian part I mean the {pause} uh {pause} the um {pause} networks are trained with noise from {pause} Aurora {disfmarker} TI - digits ,\nPhD E: Aurora - two .\nPhD D: mmm .\nProfessor B: And the noise is different in th\nPhD D: Yeah . And perhaps the noise are {pause} quite different from the noises {pause} in the speech that Italian .\n",
      "Professor B: Do we have any um {pause} test sets {pause} uh in {pause} any other language that um have the same noise as in {pause} the Aurora ?\nPhD D: And {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mmm , no .\nPhD D: No .\n",
      "PhD A: Can I ask something real quick ? In {disfmarker} in the upper part {disfmarker} {pause} in the English {pause} stuff , {pause} it looks like the very best number is sixty point nine ? and that 's in the uh {disfmarker} {pause} the third {pause} section in the upper part under PLP JRASTA , sort of the middle column ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: I is that {pause} a noisy condition ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: So that 's matched training ? Is that what that is ?\n",
      "PhD D: It 's {disfmarker} no , the third part , so it 's uh {pause} highly mismatched . So . Training and {pause} test noise are different .\nPhD A: So {disfmarker} why do you get your best number in {disfmarker} Wouldn't you get your best number in the clean case ?\nPhD C: Well , it 's relative to the um {pause} baseline mismatching\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Ah ,\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: OK so these are not {disfmarker} OK , alright , I see .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nPhD A: OK . And then {disfmarker} so , in the {disfmarker} in the um {disfmarker} {pause} in the {pause} non - mismatched clean case , {pause} your best one was under MFCC ? That sixty - one point four ?\nPhD D: Yeah . {pause} But it 's not a clean case . It 's {pause} a noisy case but {pause} uh training and test noises are the same .\nPhD A: Oh ! So this upper third ?\nPhD D: So {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh that 's still noisy ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Ah , OK .\nPhD D: So it 's always noisy basically ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: and , {pause} well , the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I see .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: OK ? Um {pause} So uh , I think this will take some {pause} looking at , thinking about . But , {pause} what is uh {disfmarker} what is currently running , that 's {disfmarker} uh , i that {disfmarker} just filling in the holes here or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} ? {comment} {pause} pretty much ?\nPhD D: Uh , no we don't plan to fill the holes\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: but {pause} actually there is something important , is that {pause} um we made a lot of assumption concerning the on - line normalization and we just noticed {pause} uh recently that {pause} uh the {pause} approach that we were using {pause} was not {pause} uh {pause} leading to very good results {pause} when we {pause} used the straight features to HTK . Um {pause} {pause} Mmm . So basically d {pause} if you look at the {disfmarker} at the left of the table , {pause} the first uh row , {pause} with eighty - six , one hundred , and forty - three and seventy - five , these are the results we obtained for Italian {pause} uh with {pause} straight {pause} mmm , PLP features {pause} using on - line normalization .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Mmm . And the , mmm {disfmarker} what 's {pause} in the table , just {pause} at the left of the PLP twelve {pause} on - line normalization column , so , the numbers seventy - nine , fifty - four and {pause} uh forty - two {pause} are the results obtained by uh Pratibha with {pause} uh his on - line normalization {disfmarker} uh her on - line normalization approach .\nPhD A: Where is that ? seventy - nine , fifty\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , it 's just sort of sitting right on the uh {disfmarker} the column line .\nPhD D: So .\nPhD E: Fifty - one ? This {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh I see , OK .\nProfessor B: Uh . {pause} Yeah .\nPhD D: Just {disfmarker} uh Yeah . So these are the results of {pause} OGI with {pause} on - line normalization and straight features to HTK . And the previous result , eighty - six and so on , {pause} are with our {pause} features straight to HTK .\nProfessor B: Yes . Yes .\n",
      "PhD D: So {pause} what we see that {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} there is that um {pause} uh the way we were doing this was not correct , but {pause} still {pause} the networks {pause} are very good . When we use the networks {pause} our number are better that {pause} uh Pratibha results .\nPhD E: We improve .\nProfessor B: So , do you know what was wrong with the on - line normalization , or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . There were diff there were different things and {pause} basically , {pause} the first thing is the mmm , {pause} alpha uh {pause} value . So , the recursion {pause} uh {pause} part . um , {pause} I used point five percent , {pause} which was the default value in the {disfmarker} {pause} in the programs here . And Pratibha used five percent .\nProfessor B: Uh\nPhD D: So it adapts more {pause} quickly\nProfessor B: Yes . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Um , but , yeah . I assume that this was not important because {pause} uh previous results from {disfmarker} from Dan and {disfmarker} show that basically {pause} the {pause} both {disfmarker} both values g give the same {disfmarker} same {pause} uh results . It was true on uh {pause} TI - digits but it 's not true on Italian .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , second thing is the initialization of the {pause} stuff . Actually , {pause} uh what we were doing is to start the recursion from the beginning of the {pause} utterance . And using initial values that are the global mean and variances {pause} measured across the whole database .\nProfessor B: Right . Right .\n",
      "PhD D: And Pratibha did something different is that he {disfmarker} uh she initialed the um values of the mean and variance {pause} by computing {pause} this on the {pause} twenty - five first frames of each utterance . Mmm . There were other minor differences , the fact that {pause} she used fifteen dissities instead s instead of thirteen , and that she used C - zero instead of log energy . Uh , but the main differences concerns the recursion . So . {pause} Uh , I changed the code uh and now we have a baseline that 's similar to the OGI baseline .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: We {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it 's slightly {pause} uh different because {pause} I don't exactly initialize the same way she does . Actually I start , {pause} mmm , I don't wait to a fifteen {disfmarker} twenty - five {disfmarker} twenty - five frames {pause} before computing a mean and the variance {pause} to e to {disfmarker} to start the recursion .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I use the on - line scheme and only start the re recursion after the twenty - five {disfmarker} {pause} twenty - fifth frame . But , well it 's similar . So {pause} uh I retrained {pause} the networks with {pause} these {disfmarker} well , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the networks are retaining with these new {pause} features .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And , yeah .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: So basically what I expect is that {pause} these numbers will a little bit go down but {pause} perhaps not {disfmarker} not so much\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: because {pause} I think the neural networks learn perhaps {pause} to {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: even if the features are not {pause} normalized . It {disfmarker} it will learn how to normalize and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: OK , but I think that {pause} given the pressure of time we probably want to draw {disfmarker} because of that {pause} especially , we wanna draw some conclusions from this , do some reductions {pause} in what we 're looking at ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and make some strong decisions for what we 're gonna do testing on before next week . So do you {disfmarker} are you {disfmarker} w did you have something going on , on the side , with uh multi - band {pause} or {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on this ,\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah {vocalsound} I\nProfessor B: or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD D: No , I {disfmarker} we plan to start this uh so , act actually we have discussed uh {pause} @ @ um , these {disfmarker} what we could do {pause} more as a {disfmarker} as a research and {disfmarker} {pause} and {pause} we were thinking perhaps that {pause} uh {pause} the way we use the tandem is not {disfmarker} Uh , well , there is basically perhaps a flaw in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} the stuff because {pause} we {pause} trained the networks {disfmarker} If we trained the networks on the {disfmarker} on {pause} a language and a t or a specific {pause} task ,\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: um , what we ask is {disfmarker} to the network {disfmarker} is to put the bound the decision boundaries somewhere in the space .\nProfessor B: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD D: And uh {pause} mmm and ask the network to put one , {pause} at one side of the {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for a particular phoneme at one side of the boundary {disfmarker} decision boundary and one for another phoneme at the other side . And {pause} so there is kind of reduction of the information there that 's not correct because if we change task {pause} and if the phonemes are not in the same context in the new task , {pause} obviously the {pause} decision boundaries are not {disfmarker} {pause} should not be at the same {pause} place .\n",
      "Professor B: I di\nPhD D: But the way the feature gives {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the way the network gives the features is that it reduce completely the {disfmarker} {pause} it removes completely the information {disfmarker} {pause} a lot of information from the {disfmarker} the features {pause} by uh {pause} uh {pause} placing the decision boundaries at {pause} optimal places for {pause} one kind of {pause} data but {pause} this is not the case for another kind of data .\nProfessor B: It 's a trade - off ,\n",
      "PhD D: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: right ? Any - anyway go ahead .\nPhD D: Yeah . So uh what we were thinking about is perhaps {pause} um one way {pause} to solve this problem is increase the number of {pause} outputs of the neural networks . Doing something like , um {pause} um phonemes within context and , well , basically context dependent phonemes .\nProfessor B: Maybe . I mean , I {disfmarker} I think {pause} you could make {pause} the same argument , it 'd be just as legitimate , {pause} for hybrid systems {pause} as well . Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah but , we know that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And in fact , {pause} th things get better with context dependent {pause} versions . Right ?\nPhD D: Ye - yeah but here it 's something different . We want to have features\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: uh well , {pause} um .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , but it 's still true {pause} that what you 're doing {pause} is you 're ignoring {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're coming up with something to represent , {pause} whether it 's a distribution , {pause} probability distribution or features , you 're coming up with a set of variables {pause} that are representing {pause} uh , {pause} things that vary w over context .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , and you 're {pause} putting it all together , ignoring the differences in context . That {disfmarker} that 's true {pause} for the hybrid system , it 's true for a tandem system . So , for that reason , when you {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in a hybrid system , {pause} when you incorporate context one way or another , {pause} you do get better scores .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: OK ? But I {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's a big deal {pause} to get that . I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sort of {disfmarker} And once you {disfmarker} the other thing is that once you represent {disfmarker} start representing more and more context {pause} it is {pause} uh {pause} much more {pause} um specific {pause} to a particular task in language . So um Uh , the {disfmarker} {pause} the acoustics associated with {pause} uh a particular context , for instance you may have some kinds of contexts that will never occur {pause} in one language and will occur frequently in the other , so the qu the issue of getting enough training {pause} for a particular kind of context becomes harder . We already actually don't have a huge amount of training data um\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , but {disfmarker} mmm , I mean , {pause} the {disfmarker} the way we {disfmarker} we do it now is that we have a neural network and {pause} basically {pause} the net network is trained almost to give binary decisions .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: And {pause} uh {disfmarker} binary decisions about phonemes . Nnn {disfmarker} Uh It 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Almost . But I mean it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it does give a distribution .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: It 's {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {pause} it is true that if there 's two phones that are very similar , {pause} that {pause} uh {pause} the {disfmarker} {pause} i it may prefer one but it will {pause} give a reasonably high value to the other , too .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah , sure but uh {pause} So basically it 's almost binary decisions and {pause} um the idea of using more {pause} classes is {pause} to {pause} get something that 's {pause} less binary decisions .\n",
      "Professor B: Oh no , but it would still be even more of a binary decision . It {disfmarker} it 'd be even more of one . Because then you would say {pause} that in {disfmarker} that this phone in this context is a one , {pause} but the same phone in a slightly different context is a zero .\nPhD D: But {disfmarker} yeah , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: That would be even {disfmarker} even more distinct of a binary decision . I actually would have thought you 'd wanna go the other way and have fewer classes .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , but if {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh , I mean for instance , the {disfmarker} the thing I was arguing for before , but again which I don't think we have time to try , {pause} is something in which you would modify the code so you could train to have several outputs on and use articulatory features\nPhD D: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: cuz then that would {disfmarker} that would go {disfmarker} {pause} that would be much broader and cover many different situations . But if you go to very very fine categories , it 's very {pause} binary .\nPhD D: Mmm . Yeah , but I think {disfmarker} Yeah , perhaps you 're right , but you have more classes so {pause} you {disfmarker} you have more information in your features . So , {vocalsound} Um {pause} You have more information in the {pause} uh\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm . True .\n",
      "PhD D: posteriors vector um which means that {disfmarker} But still the information is relevant\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: because it 's {disfmarker} it 's information that helps to discriminate ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: if it 's possible to be able to discriminate {pause} among the phonemes in context .\nProfessor B: Well it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} {pause} it 's an interesting thought .\nPhD D: But the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: I mean we {disfmarker} we could disagree about it at length\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: but the {disfmarker} the real thing is if you 're interested in it you 'll probably try it\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker} {pause} and {pause} we 'll see . But {disfmarker} but what I 'm more concerned with now , as an operational level , is {pause} uh , you know ,\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: what do we do in four or five days ? Uh , and {disfmarker} {pause} so we have {pause} to be concerned {pause} with Are we gonna look at any combinations of things , you know once the nets get retrained so you have this problem out of it .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , are we going to look at {pause} multi - band ? Are we gonna look at combinations of things ? Uh , what questions are we gonna ask , uh now that , I mean , {pause} we should probably turn shortly to this O G I note . Um , how are we going to {pause} combine {pause} with what they 've been focusing on ? Uh , {pause} Uh we haven't been doing any of the L D A RASTA sort of thing .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And they , although they don't talk about it in this note , um , {pause} there 's um , {pause} the issue of the {pause} um Mu law {pause} business {pause} uh {pause} versus the logarithm , um , {pause} so .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So what i what is going on right now ? What 's right {disfmarker} you 've got {pause} nets retraining , Are there {disfmarker} is there {disfmarker} are there any H T K {pause} trainings {disfmarker} testings going on ?\n",
      "PhD D: N\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm trying the HTK with eh , {pause} PLP twelve on - line delta - delta and MSG filter {pause} together .\nProfessor B: The combination , I see .\nPhD E: The combination , yeah . But I haven't result {vocalsound} at this moment .\nProfessor B: MSG and {disfmarker} and PLP .\nPhD E: Yeah . \nProfessor B: And is this with the revised {pause} on - line normalization ?\nPhD E: Ye - Uh , with the old {pause} older ,\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Old one . So it 's using all the nets for that\nPhD E: yeah .\nProfessor B: but again we have the hope that it {disfmarker} {pause} We have the hope that it {disfmarker} {pause} maybe it 's not making too much difference ,\nPhD E: Yeah . But {pause} We can know soon .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker} but\nPhD E: Maybe .\nProfessor B: yeah .\nPhD E: I don't know .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Uh , OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh so there is this combination , yeah . Working on combination obviously .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Um , I will start work on multi - band . And {pause} we {pause} plan to work also on the idea of using both {pause} features {pause} and net outputs .\nPhD E: \n",
      "PhD D: Um . And {pause} we think that {pause} with this approach perhaps {pause} we could reduce the number of outputs of the neural network . Um , So , get simpler networks , because we still have the features . So we have um {pause} come up with um {pause} different kind of {pause} broad phonetic categories . And we have {disfmarker} Basically we have three {pause} types of broad phonetic classes . Well , something using place of articulation which {disfmarker} which leads to {pause} nine , I think , {pause} broad classes . Uh , another which is based on manner , which is {disfmarker} is also something like nine classes . And then , {pause} something that combine both , and we have {pause} twenty f {pause} twenty - five ?\n",
      "Grad F: Twenty - seven .\nPhD D: Twenty - seven broad classes . So like , uh , oh , I don't know , like back vowels , front vowels .\nProfessor B: So what you do {disfmarker} um I just wanna understand\nPhD D: Um For the moments we do not {disfmarker} don't have nets ,\nProfessor B: so {pause} You have two net or three nets ? Was this ? How many {disfmarker} how many nets do you have ? No nets .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean , {pause} It 's just {disfmarker} Were we just changing {pause} the labels to retrain nets {pause} with fewer out outputs .\nPhD E: Begin to work in this . We are @ @ .\nProfessor B: Right . But {disfmarker} but I didn't understand {disfmarker}\nPhD D: And then {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh . {pause} the software currently just has {disfmarker} uh a {disfmarker} allows for I think , the one {disfmarker} one hot output . So you 're having multiple nets and combining them , or {disfmarker} ? Uh , how are you {disfmarker} how are you coming up with {disfmarker} If you say {pause} uh {pause} If you have a place {pause} characteristic and a manner characteristic , how do you {disfmarker}\nPhD D: It - It 's the single net ,\nPhD A: I think they have one output .\n",
      "PhD D: yeah .\nProfessor B: Oh , it 's just one net .\nPhD D: It 's one net with {pause} um {pause} twenty - seven outputs\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad F: mm - hmm\nPhD D: if we have twenty - seven classes ,\nProfessor B: I see . I see , OK .\nPhD D: yeah . So it 's {disfmarker} Well , it 's basically a standard net with fewer {pause} classes .\nProfessor B: So you 're sort of going the other way of what you were saying a bit ago instead of {disfmarker} yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , but I think {disfmarker} Yeah . B b including the features , yeah .\nGrad F: But including the features .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: I don't think this {pause} will work {pause} alone . I think it will get worse because Well , I believe the effect that {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of too reducing too much the information is {pause} basically {disfmarker} basically what happens\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: But you think if you include that {pause} plus the other features ,\n",
      "PhD D: but {disfmarker} Yeah , because {pause} there is perhaps one important thing that the net {pause} brings , and OGI show showed that , is {pause} the distinction between {pause} sp speech and silence Because these nets are trained on well - controlled condition . I mean the labels are obtained on clean speech , and we add noise after . So this is one thing And But perhaps , something intermediary using also {pause} some broad classes could {disfmarker} could bring so much more information . Uh .\n",
      "Professor B: So {disfmarker} so again then we have these broad classes and {disfmarker} well , somewhat broad . I mean , it 's twenty - seven instead of sixty - four , {pause} basically . And you have the original features .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Which are PLP , or something .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And then uh , just to remind me , all of that goes {pause} into {disfmarker} uh , that all of that is transformed by uh , uh , K - KL or something , or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . There will probably be ,\nPhD E: Mu .\nPhD D: yeah , one single KL to transform everything\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: or {vocalsound} {pause} uh ,\nPhD E: No transform the PLP\nPhD D: per\nPhD E: and only transform the other I 'm not sure .\nProfessor B: Well no ,\nPhD D: This is {pause} still something {pause} that\nProfessor B: I think {disfmarker} I see .\nPhD D: yeah , we {pause} don't know {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: So there 's a question of whether you would {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Two e @ @ it 's one .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Right . Whether you would transform together or just one . Yeah . Might wanna try it both ways . But that 's interesting . So that 's something that you 're {disfmarker} you haven't trained yet but are preparing to train , and {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Um {pause} {pause} Yeah , so I think Hynek will be here Monday .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B:  Monday or Tuesday . So\nPhD D: Uh , yeah .\nProfessor B: So I think , you know , we need to {pause} choose the {disfmarker} choose the experiments carefully , so we can get uh key {disfmarker} {pause} key questions answered {pause} uh before then\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: and {pause} leave other ones aside even if it {pause} leaves incomplete {pause} tables {vocalsound} {pause} someplace , uh {pause} uh , it 's {disfmarker} it 's really time to {disfmarker} {pause} time to choose .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Um , let me pass this out , {pause} by the way . Um These are {disfmarker} Did {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} {pause} did I interrupt you ?\nPhD E: Yeah , I have one .\n",
      "Professor B: Were there other things that you wanted to {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh , no . I don't think so .\nPhD E: \nPhD D: Yeah , I have one .\nGrad G: Oh , thanks .\nProfessor B: Ah ! {pause} OK . {pause} OK , we have {pause} lots of them .\nPhD E: We have one . \n",
      "Professor B: OK , so {vocalsound} um , Something I asked {disfmarker} So they 're {disfmarker} they 're doing {pause} the {disfmarker} the VAD I guess they mean voice activity detection So again , it 's the silence {disfmarker} So they 've just trained up a net {pause} which has two outputs , I believe . Um {vocalsound} I asked uh {pause} Hynek whether {disfmarker} I haven't talked to Sunil {disfmarker} I asked Hynek whether {pause} they compared that to {pause} just taking the nets we already had {pause} and summing up the probabilities .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Uh . {pause} To get the speech {disfmarker} voice activity detection , or else just using the silence , {pause} if there 's only one {pause} silence output . Um {pause} And , he didn't think they had , um . But on the other hand , maybe they can get by with a smaller net and {pause} maybe {pause} sometimes you don't run the other , maybe there 's a computational advantage to having a separate net , anyway .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So um Their uh {disfmarker} {pause} the results look pretty good . Um , {pause} I mean , not uniformly .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean , there 's a {disfmarker} an example or two {pause} that you can find , where it made it slightly worse , but {pause} uh in {disfmarker} in all but a couple {pause} examples .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Uh .\nPhD E: But they have a question of the result . Um how are trained the {disfmarker} the LDA filter ? How obtained the LDA filter ?\n",
      "PhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: I I 'm sorry . I don't understand your question .\nPhD E: Yes , um the LDA filter {pause} needs some {pause} training set {pause} to obtain the filter . Maybe I don't know exactly how {pause} they are obtained .\nProfessor B: It 's on {pause} training .\nPhD E: Training , with the training test of each {disfmarker} You understand me ?\nProfessor B: No .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah , uh for example , {pause} LDA filter {pause} need a set of {disfmarker} {pause} a set of training {pause} to obtain the filter .\nProfessor B: Yes .\nPhD E: And maybe {pause} for the Italian , for the TD {pause} TE on for Finnish , these filter are {disfmarker} are obtained with their own training set .\n",
      "Professor B: Yes , I don't know . That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} so that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a very good question , then {disfmarker} now that it {disfmarker} {pause} I understand it . It 's \" yeah , where does the LDA come from ? \" In the {disfmarker} In {pause} earlier experiments , they had taken LDA {pause} from a completely different database , right ?\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah , because maybe it the same situation that the neural network training with their own\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD E: set .\nProfessor B: So that 's a good question . Where does it come from ? Yeah , I don't know . Um , {pause} but uh to tell you the {pause} truth , I wasn't actually looking at the LDA so much when I {disfmarker} I was looking at it I was {pause} mostly thinking about the {disfmarker} {pause} the VAD . And um , it ap {pause} it ap Oh what does {disfmarker} what does ASP ? Oh that 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: The features , yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: I don't understand also\nProfessor B: It says \" baseline ASP \" .\nPhD E: what is {disfmarker} {pause} what is the difference between ASP and uh baseline over ?\nPhD C: ASP .\nPhD D: Yeah , I don't know .\nPhD E: This is {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Anybody know {pause} any {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Oh . There it is .\nProfessor B: Um Cuz there 's \" baseline Aurora \" {pause} above it .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And it 's {disfmarker} This is mostly better than baseline , although in some cases it 's a little worse , in a couple cases .\nPhD C: Well , it says baseline ASP is twenty - three mill {pause} minus thirteen .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , it says what it is . But I don't how that 's different {pause} from {disfmarker}\nPhD C: From the baseline . {comment} OK .\n",
      "Professor B: I think this was {disfmarker} {pause} I think this is the same point we were at when {disfmarker} when we were up in Oregon .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: I think {disfmarker} {pause} I think it 's the C - zero {disfmarker} using C - zero instead of log energy .\nPhD E: Ah , OK , mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , it 's this .\nProfessor B: Oh . OK .\nPhD E: yeah .\nPhD D: It should be that , yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: They s they say in here that the VAD is not used as an additional feature .\nProfessor B: Shouldn't it be {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Because {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Does {disfmarker} does anybody know how they 're using it ?\nProfessor B: Yeah . So {disfmarker} so what they 're doing here is , {pause} i\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: if you look down at the block diagram , {pause} um , {pause} they estimate {disfmarker} they get a {disfmarker} {pause} they get an estimate {pause} of whether it 's speech or silence ,\nPhD A: But that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: and then they have a median filter of it .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And so um , {pause} basically they 're trying to find stretches . The median filter is enforcing a {disfmarker} i it having some continuity .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: You find stretches where the {pause} combination of the {pause} frame wise VAD and the {disfmarker} {pause} the median filter say that there 's a stretch of silence . And then it 's going through and just throwing the data away .\nPhD C: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Right ? So um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I don't understand . You mean it 's throwing out frames ? Before {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: It 's throwing out chunks of frames , yeah . There 's {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the median filter is enforcing that it 's not gonna be single cases of frames , or isolated frames .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So it 's throwing out frames and the thing is {pause} um , {pause} what I don't understand is how they 're doing this with H T\nPhD A: Yeah , that 's what I was just gonna ask .\nProfessor B: This is {disfmarker}\nPhD A: How can you just throw out frames ?\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Well , you {disfmarker} you can ,\nPhD D: i\nProfessor B: right ? I mean y you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: it stretches again . For single frames I think it would be pretty hard .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But if you say speech starts here , speech ends there .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Right ?\nPhD C: Huh .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah , you can basically remove the {disfmarker} the frames from the feature {disfmarker} feature files .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Yeah , so I mean in the {disfmarker} i i in the {disfmarker} in the decoding , you 're saying that we 're gonna decode from here to here .\nPhD D: I t\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I think they 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they 're treating it , {pause} you know , like uh {disfmarker} well , it 's not isolated word , but {disfmarker} but connected , you know , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: In the text they say that this {disfmarker} this is a tentative block diagram of a possible configuration we could think of . So that sort of sounds like they 're not doing that yet .\n",
      "Professor B: Well . {pause} No they {disfmarker} they have numbers though , right ? So I think they 're {disfmarker} they 're doing something like that . I think that they 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} I think what I mean by tha that is they 're trying to come up with a block diagram that 's plausible for the standard . In other words , it 's {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I mean from the point of view of {disfmarker} of uh reducing the number of bits you have to transmit it 's not a bad idea to detect silence anyway .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . Yeah . I 'm just wondering what exactly did they do up in this table if it wasn't this .\nProfessor B: Um . But it 's {disfmarker} the thing is it 's that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} Certainly it would be tricky about it intrans in transmitting voice , {pause} uh uh for listening to , is that these kinds of things {pause} uh cut {pause} speech off a lot .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Right ? And so {pause} um\nPhD A: Plus it 's gonna introduce delays .\nProfessor B: It does introduce delays but they 're claiming that it 's {disfmarker} it 's within the {disfmarker} {pause} the boundaries of it .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And the LDA introduces delays , and b {pause} what he 's suggesting this here is a parallel path so that it doesn't introduce {pause} uh , any more delay . I it introduces two hundred milliseconds of delay but at the same {pause} time the LDA {pause} down here {disfmarker} I don't know {disfmarker} Wh what 's the difference between TLDA and SLDA ?\nPhD C: Temporal and spectral .\nProfessor B: Ah , thank you .\nPhD E: Temporal LDA .\nProfessor B: Yeah , you would know that .\nPhD C: Yeah\n",
      "Professor B: So um . The temporal LDA does in fact include the same {disfmarker} so that {disfmarker} I think he {disfmarker} well , by {disfmarker} by saying this is a b a tentative block di diagram I think means {pause} if you construct it this way , this {disfmarker} this delay would work in that way\nPhD A: Ah .\n",
      "Professor B: and then it 'd be OK . They {disfmarker} they clearly did actually remove {pause} silent sections in order {disfmarker} because they {pause} got these {pause} word error rate {pause} results . So um I think that it 's {disfmarker} it 's nice to do that in this because in fact , it 's gonna give a better word error result and therefore will help within an evaluation . Whereas to whether this would actually be in a final standard , I don't know . Um . Uh , as you know , part of the problem with evaluation right now is that the {pause} word models are pretty bad and nobody wants {disfmarker} {pause} has {disfmarker} has approached improving them . So {pause} it 's possible that a lot of the problems {pause} with so many insertions and so forth would go away if they were better word models {pause} to begin with . So {pause} this might just be a temporary thing . But {disfmarker} But , on the other hand , and maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 's a decent idea . So um The question we 're gonna wanna go {pause} through next week when Hynek shows up I guess is given that we 've been {disfmarker} if you look at what we 've been trying , we 're uh looking at {pause} uh , by then I guess , combinations of features and multi - band Uh , and we 've been looking at {pause} cross - language , cross {pause} task {pause} issues . And they 've been not so much looking at {pause} the cross task uh multiple language issues . But they 've been looking at uh {disfmarker} {pause} at these issues . At the on - line normalization and the uh {pause} voice activity detection . And I guess when he comes here we 're gonna have to start deciding about {pause} um what do we choose {pause} from what we 've looked at {pause} to um blend with {pause} some group of things in what they 've looked at And once we choose that , {pause} how do we split up the {pause} effort ? Uh , because we still have {disfmarker} even once we choose , {pause} we 've still got {pause} uh another {pause} month or so , I mean there 's holidays in the way , but {disfmarker} but uh {pause} I think the evaluation data comes January thirty - first so there 's still a fair amount of time {pause} to do things together it 's just that they probably should be somewhat more coherent between the two sites {pause} in that {disfmarker} that amount of time .\n",
      "PhD A: When they removed the silence frames , did they insert some kind of a marker so that the recognizer knows it 's {disfmarker} {pause} knows when it 's time to back trace or something ?\nProfessor B: Well , see they , I {disfmarker} I think they 're Um . I don't know the {disfmarker} {pause} the specifics of how they 're doing it . They 're {disfmarker} {pause} they 're getting around the way the recognizer works because they 're not allowed to {pause} um , change the scripts {pause} for the recognizer , {pause} I believe .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , right . Maybe they 're just inserting some nummy frames or something ?\nProfessor B: So . Uh . Uh , you know that 's what I had thought . But I don't {disfmarker} I don't think they are .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean that 's {disfmarker} sort of what {disfmarker} the way I had imagined would happen is that on the other side , yeah you p put some low level noise or something . Probably don't want all zeros .\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Most recognizers don't like zeros but {vocalsound} but {pause} you know , {pause} put some epsilon in or some rand\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: sorry epsilon random variable {pause} in or something .\nPhD A: Some constant vector . I mean i w Or something {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Maybe not a constant but it doesn't , uh {disfmarker} don't like to divide by the variance of that , but I mean it 's\n",
      "PhD A: That 's right . But something that {disfmarker} what I mean is something that is {pause} very distinguishable from {pause} speech .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So that the {disfmarker} the silence model in HTK will always pick it up .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} that 's what I thought they would do . or else , uh {pause} uh maybe there is some indicator to tell it to start and stop , I don't know .\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But whatever they did , I mean they have to play within the rules of this specific evaluation .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: We c we can find out .\nPhD A: Cuz you gotta do something . Otherwise , if it 's just a bunch of speech , stuck together {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: No they 're {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: It would do badly\nPhD A: Yeah , right .\nProfessor B: and it didn't so badly , right ? So they did something .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Uh . So , OK , So I think {pause} this brings me up to date a bit . It hopefully brings other {pause} people up to date a bit . And um Um {pause} I think {disfmarker} Uh , I wanna look at these numbers off - line a little bit and think about it and {disfmarker} {pause} and talk with everybody uh , {pause} outside of this meeting . Um , but uh No I mean it sounds like {disfmarker} I mean {pause} there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there are the usual number of {disfmarker} of {pause} little {disfmarker} little problems and bugs and so forth but it sounds like they 're getting ironed out . And now we 're {pause} seem to be kind of in a position to actually {pause} uh , {pause} look at stuff and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and compare things . So I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's pretty good . Um {pause} I don't know what the {disfmarker} One of the things I wonder about , {pause} coming back to the first results you talked about , is {disfmarker} is {pause} how much , {pause} uh {pause} things could be helped {pause} by more parameters . And uh {disfmarker} {pause} And uh how many more parameters we can afford to have , {vocalsound} {pause} in terms of the uh computational limits . Because anyway when we go to {pause} twice as much data {pause} and have the same number of parameters , particularly when it 's twice as much data and it 's quite diverse , um , I wonder if having twice as many parameters would help .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Uh , just have a bigger hidden layer . Uh But {disfmarker} I doubt it would {pause} help by forty per cent . But {vocalsound} {pause} but uh\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Just curious . How are we doing on the {pause} resources ? Disk , and {disfmarker}\nPhD D: I think we 're alright ,\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: um , {pause} not much problems with that .\nProfessor B: Computation ?\nPhD D: It 's OK .\nProfessor B: We {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Well this table took uh {pause} more than five days to get back .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah , well .\nPhD D: But {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor B: Are {disfmarker} were you folks using Gin ? That 's a {disfmarker} that just died , you know ?\nPhD D: Mmm , no . You were using Gin {comment} perhaps , yeah ? No .\nPhD E: No .\nProfessor B: No ? Oh , that 's good .\nGrad F: It just died .\n",
      "Professor B: OK . Yeah , {pause} we 're gonna get a replacement {pause} server that 'll be a faster server , {pause} actually .\nPhD E: Yes .\nProfessor B: That 'll be {disfmarker} It 's a {pause} seven hundred fifty megahertz uh SUN\nPhD D: Hmm . {comment} Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: uh {pause} But it won't be installed for {pause} a little while .\nPhD C: Tonic .\nProfessor B: U Go ahead .\n",
      "Grad G: Do we {disfmarker} Do we have that big new IBM machine the , I think in th\n",
      "Professor B: We have the {pause} little tiny IBM machine {vocalsound} {pause} that might someday grow up to be a big {pause} IBM machine . It 's got s slots for eight , uh IBM was donating five , I think we only got two so far , processors . We had originally hoped we were getting eight hundred megahertz processors . They ended up being five fifty . So instead of having eight processors that were eight hundred megahertz , we ended up with two {pause} that are five hundred and fifty megahertz . And more are supposed to come soon and there 's only a moderate amount of dat of memory . So I don't think {pause} anybody has been sufficiently excited by it to {pause} spend much time {pause} uh {pause} with it , but uh {vocalsound} Hopefully , {pause} they 'll get us some more {pause} parts , soon and {disfmarker} Uh , yeah , I think that 'll be {disfmarker} once we get it populated , {pause} that 'll be a nice machine . I mean we will ultimately get eight processors in there . And uh {disfmarker} and uh a nice amount of memory . Uh so it 'll be a pr pretty fast Linux machine .\n",
      "Grad G: And if we can do things on Linux , {pause} some of the machines we have going already , like Swede ?\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Um It seems pretty fast .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: But {disfmarker} I think Fudge is pretty fast too .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , I mean you can check with uh {pause} Dave Johnson . I mean , it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} {pause} I think the machine is just sitting there . And it does have two processors , you know and {disfmarker} {pause} Somebody could do {disfmarker} {pause} you know , uh , check out {pause} uh the multi - threading {pause} libraries . And {pause} I mean i it 's possible that the {disfmarker} I mean , I guess the prudent thing to do would be for somebody to do the work on {disfmarker} {pause} on getting our code running {pause} on that machine with two processors {pause} even though there aren't five or eight . There 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's gonna be debugging hassles and then we 'd be set for when we did have five or eight , to have it really be useful . But . {pause} Notice how I said somebody and {vocalsound} turned my head your direction . That 's one thing you don't get in these recordings . You don't get the {disfmarker} {pause} don't get the visuals but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: I is it um {pause} mostly um the neural network trainings that are {pause} um slowing us down or the HTK runs that are slowing us down ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , I think yes . Uh , {vocalsound} Isn't that right ? I mean I think you 're {disfmarker} you 're sort of held up by both , right ? If the {disfmarker} if the neural net trainings were a hundred times faster {pause} you still wouldn't {pause} be anything {disfmarker} running through these a hundred times faster because you 'd {pause} be stuck by the HTK trainings ,\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: right ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: But if the HTK {disfmarker} I mean I think they 're both {disfmarker} It sounded like they were roughly equal ? Is that about right ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad G: Because , um {pause} I think that 'll be running Linux , and Sw - Swede and Fudge are already running Linux so , {pause} um I could try to get {pause} um the train the neural network trainings or the HTK stuff running under Linux , and to start with I 'm {pause} wondering which one I should pick first .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , probably the neural net cuz it 's probably {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} {pause} it 's um {disfmarker} Well , I {disfmarker} I don't know . They both {disfmarker} HTK we use for {pause} um {pause} this Aurora stuff Um {pause} Um , I think {pause} It 's not clear yet what we 're gonna use {pause} for trainings uh {disfmarker} Well , {pause} there 's the trainings uh {disfmarker} is it the training that takes the time , or the decoding ? Uh , is it about equal {pause} between the two ? For {disfmarker} for Aurora ?\n",
      "PhD D: For HTK ?\nProfessor B: For {disfmarker} Yeah . For the Aurora ?\nPhD D: Uh Training is longer .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK . Well , I don't know how we can {disfmarker} I don't know how to {disfmarker} Do we have HTK source ? Is that {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: You would think that would fairly trivially {disfmarker} the training would , anyway , th the testing {pause} uh I don't {disfmarker} I don't {pause} think would {pause} parallelize all that well . But I think {pause} that {pause} you could {pause} certainly do d um , {pause} distributed , sort of {disfmarker} {pause} Ah , no , it 's the {disfmarker} {pause} each individual {pause} sentence is pretty tricky to parallelize . But you could split up the sentences in a test set .\n",
      "PhD A: They have a {disfmarker} they have a thing for doing that and th they have for awhile , in H T And you can parallelize the training .\nProfessor B: Yeah ?\nPhD A: And run it on several machines\nProfessor B: Aha !\nPhD A: and it just basically keeps counts . And there 's something {disfmarker} {pause} a final {pause} thing that you run and it accumulates all the counts together .\nProfessor B: I see .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD A: I don't what their scripts are {pause} set up to do for the Aurora stuff , but {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Something that we haven't really settled on yet is other than {pause} this Aurora stuff , {pause} uh what do we do , large vocabulary {pause} training slash testing {pause} for uh tandem systems . Cuz we hadn't really done much with tandem systems for larger stuff . Cuz we had this one collaboration with CMU and we used SPHINX . Uh , we 're also gonna be collaborating with SRI and we have their {disfmarker} have theirs . Um {pause} So {pause} I don't know Um . So I {disfmarker} I think the {disfmarker} the advantage of going with the neural net thing is that we 're gonna use the neural net trainings , no matter what , for a lot of the things we 're doing ,\n",
      "Grad G: OK .\nProfessor B: whereas , w exactly which HMM {disfmarker} Gaussian - mixture - based HMM thing we use is gonna depend uh So with that , maybe we should uh {vocalsound} go to our {nonvocalsound} digit recitation task . And , it 's about eleven fifty . Canned . Uh , I can {disfmarker} I can start over here . Great , uh , could you give Adam a call . Tell him to He 's at two nine seven seven .\nGrad F: Oh .\n"
    ],
    "length": 20500,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 44,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting was mostly about the logistics of covering the legal bases around releasing meeting data. The team wanted to make sure that meeting participants would not sue for libel or releasing unwanted information. The team also went over the transcriptions that IBM had done as well as storage space, which was finally looking up. The meeting ended with a general discussion about the progress of the group and future directions.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad F: OK .\nPhD C: Adam , what is the mike that , uh , Jeremy 's wearing ? \nGrad F: It 's the ear - plug mike .\nPostdoc A: Ear - plug .\nPhD E: That 's good .\nPhD C: Is that a wireless , or {disfmarker} ? Oh .\nGrad F: No .\nGrad G: It 's wired .\nProfessor B: Oh !\nPostdoc A: Is that {disfmarker} Does that mean you can't hear anything during the meeting ?\nGrad D: It 's old - school .\nGrad F: Huh ? What ? Huh ?\n",
      "Professor B: Should we , uh , close the door , maybe ?\nGrad F: It {disfmarker} it 's a fairly good mike , actually .\nProfessor B: So it 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Huh .\nGrad F: Well , I shouldn't say it 's a good mike . All I really know is that the signal level is OK . I don't know if it 's a {disfmarker} the quality .\nProfessor B: Well , that 's a\n",
      "Grad F: Ugh ! So I didn't send out agenda items because until five minutes ago we only had one agenda item and now we have two . So . {vocalsound} And , uh .\nProfessor B: OK . So , just to repeat the thing bef that we said last week , it was there 's this suggestion of alternating weeks on {vocalsound} more , uh , automatic speech recognition related or not ? Was that sort of {pause} the division ?\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor B: So which week are we in ?\n",
      "Grad F: Well {disfmarker} We haven't really started , but I thought we more {disfmarker} we more or less did Meeting Recorder stuff last week , so I thought we could do , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I thought we had a thing about speech recognition last week too .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad F: But I figure also if they 're short agenda items , we could also do a little bit of each .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: So . I seem to be having difficulty getting this adjusted . Here we go .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "Grad F: So , uh , as most of you should know , I did send out the consent form thingies and , uh , so far no one has made any {disfmarker} Ach ! {comment} {comment} any comments on them . So , no on no one has bleeped out anything .\nProfessor B: Um . Yeah .\nGrad F: So . I don't expect anyone to . But .\nProfessor B: Um . {vocalsound} So , w what follows ? At some point y you go around and get people to sign something ?\nGrad F: No . We had spoken w about this before\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , but I 've forgotten .\nGrad F: and we had decided that they have {disfmarker} they only needed to sign once . And the agreement that they already signed simply said that we would give them an opportunity . So as long as we do that , we 're covered .\nProfessor B: And how long of an opportunity did you tell them ?\nGrad F: Uh , July fifteenth .\nProfessor B: July fifteenth . Oh , so they have a plenty of time , and y\nGrad F: Yep .\n",
      "Professor B: Given that it 's that long , um , um {disfmarker} Why was that date chosen ? You just felt you wanted to {disfmarker} ?\nGrad F: Jane told me July fifteenth . So , that 's what I set it .\nPostdoc A: Oh . I just meant that that was {pause} the release date that you had on the {pause} data .\nProfessor B: Oh , OK .\nGrad F: Oh . I {disfmarker} I didn't understand that there was something specific .\nPostdoc A: I , uh {disfmarker} I thought {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: You {disfmarker} y you had {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I don't {disfmarker}\nGrad F: I had heard July fifteenth , so that 's what I put .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: No , the only {disfmarker} th the only {pause} mention I recall about that was just that July fifteenth or so is when {vocalsound} this meeting starts .\nGrad F: So .\nPostdoc A: That 's right . That 's why .\nProfessor B: Oh , I see .\nPostdoc A: You said you wanted it to be available then .\n",
      "Professor B: OK .\nPostdoc A: I didn't mean it to be the hard deadline .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPostdoc A: It 's fine with me if it is , or we cou But I thought it might be good to remind people two weeks prior to that\nProfessor B: w\nPostdoc A: in case , uh {disfmarker} you know , \" by the way {pause} this is your last {disfmarker} \"\nProfessor B: Right .\nPostdoc A: Uh . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: We probably should have talked about it , cuz i because if we wanna be able to give it to people July fifteenth , if somebody 's gonna come back and say \" OK , I don't want this and this and this used \" , uh , clearly we need some time to respond to that . Right ?\nGrad F: Yeah . As I said , we {disfmarker} I just got one date\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD H: Damn !\nGrad F: and that 's the one I used .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: So . But I can send a follow - up . I mean , it 's almost all us . I mean the people who are in the meeti this meeting was , uh , these {disfmarker} the meetings that {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} are in set one .\nPhD C: Was my {disfmarker} was my response OK ?\nPostdoc A: That 's right .\nPhD C: I just wrote you {disfmarker} replied to the email saying they 're all fine .\nGrad F: Right . I mean , that 's fine .\nPhD C: OK , good .\n",
      "Grad F: I {disfmarker} we don't {disfmarker} My understanding of what we {pause} had agreed upon when we had spoken about this months ago was that , uh , we don't actually need a reply .\nPhD C: That makes it easy .\nGrad F: We just need to tell them that they can do it if they want .\nProfessor B: OK . I just didn't remember , but {disfmarker}\nGrad F: And so no reply is no changes .\nPostdoc A: And he 's got it so that the default thing you see when you look at the page is \" OK \" .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc A: So that 's very clear all the way down the page , \" OK \" . And they have two options they can change it to . One of them is {pause} \" censor \" , and the other one is \" incorrect \" . Is it {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} your word is \" incorrect \" ?\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Which means also we get feedback on {pause} if {pause} um , there 's something that they w that needs to be {pause} adjusted , because , I mean , these are very highly technical things . I mean , it 's an added , uh , level of checking on the accuracy of the transcription , as I see it . But in any case , people can agree to things that are wrong .\nGrad F: Well {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: So .\nGrad F: Yeah . The reason I did that it was just so that people would not censor {disfmarker} not ask to have stuff removed because it was transcribed incorrectly ,\n",
      "Postdoc A: And the reason I liked it was because {disfmarker}\nGrad F: as opposed to , uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: was because it , um {disfmarker} it gives them the option of , uh , being able to correct it .\nGrad F: Right .\nPostdoc A: Approve it and correct it . And {pause} um . So , you have {pause} it nicely set up so they email you and , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: When they submit the form , it gets processed and emailed to me .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . And I wanted to say the meetings that are involved in that set are Robustness and Meeting Recorder .\nGrad F: So .\nPostdoc A: The German ones will be ready for next week . Those are three {disfmarker} three of those . A different set of people . And we can impose {disfmarker}\nPhD C: The German ones ?\nPostdoc A: Uh , well .\nPhD H: Yeah . Those {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: NSA .\n",
      "Postdoc A: OK . I spoke loosely . The {disfmarker} the German , French {disfmarker} Sorry , the German , {vocalsound} Dutch , and Spanish ones .\nPhD E: Spanish . Yeah .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Oh , those are the NSA meetings ?\nPhD E: The non - native {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Those are {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Yeah . Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: German , Dutch , Swiss and Spanish .\nPhD C: Oh , oh ! OK .\nPhD E: The all non - native {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's r\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD H: Uh - huh .\nPhD C: OK . I 'd {disfmarker} I d\nPostdoc A: Yeah . {pause} It 's the other group .\nProfessor B: I It was the network {disfmarker} network services group .\nPhD C: OK .\nPostdoc A: Uh - huh . Yeah , exactly . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: I didn't mean to {pause} isolate them .\n",
      "Professor B: Otherwise known as the German , Dutch , and Spanish .\nPostdoc A: Yeah . Sorry . It was {disfmarker} it was not the best characterization .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc A: But what {disfmarker} {vocalsound} what I meant to say was that it 's the other group that 's not {disfmarker} n no m no overlap with our present members . And then maybe it 'd be good to set an explicit deadline , something like {pause} a week {pause} before that , uh , J July fifteenth date , or two weeks before .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , I would suggest we discuss {disfmarker} I mean , if we 're going to have a policy on it , that we discuss the length of time that we want to give people ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: so that we have a uniform thing . So , tha that 's a month , which is fine . I mean , it seems {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Twelve hours .\nGrad F: Well , the only thing I said in the email is that {pause} the data is going to be released on the fifteenth . I didn't give any other deadline .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: So my feeling is if someone after the fifteenth says , \" wow I suddenly found something \" , we 'll delete it from our record . We just won't delete it from whatever 's already been released .\nPostdoc A: Hmm . That 's a little bit difficult .\nGrad F: What else can we do ?\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad F: If someone says \" hey , look , I {pause} found something in this meeting and {pause} it 's libelous and I want it removed \" . What can we do ?\nPostdoc A: Well . {pause} That 's true .\n",
      "Grad F: We have to remove it .\nPostdoc A: I {disfmarker} I agree with that part , but I think that it would {disfmarker} it , uh {disfmarker} we need to have , uh , a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a message to them very clearly that {vocalsound} beyond this date , you can't make additional changes .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} i I think that somebody might {pause} request something even though we say that . But I think it 's good to at least start some place like that .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm . Good .\n",
      "Professor B: So if we agreed , {vocalsound} OK , how long is a reasonable amount of time for people to have {disfmarker} if we say two weeks , or if we say a month , I think we should just say that {disfmarker} say that , you know , i a as {pause} um , {vocalsound} \" per the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the , uh , page you signed , you have the ability to look over this stuff \" and so forth \" and , uh , because we w \" these , uh {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} I would imagine some sort of generic thing that would say \" because we , uh , will continually be making these things available {vocalsound} to other researchers , uh , this can't be open - ended and so , uh , uh , please give us back your response within this am you know , within this amount of time \" , whatever time we agree upon .\n",
      "Grad F: Well , did you read the email and look at the pages I sent ?\nProfessor B: Did I ? No , I haven't yet . No , just {disfmarker}\nGrad F: No . OK , well why don't you do that and then make comments on what you want me to change ?\n",
      "Professor B: No , no . I 'm not saying that you should change anything . I I 'm {disfmarker} what I 'm {disfmarker} what I 'm {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I 'm trying to spark a discussion hopefully among people who have read it so that {disfmarker} that you can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you can , uh , decide on something .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So I 'm not telling you what to decide .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I 'm just saying you should decide something ,\nPostdoc A: OK .\nProfessor B: and then {disfmarker}\nGrad F: I already did decide something , and that 's what 's in the email .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , yeah . OK , so {disfmarker}\nGrad F: And if you disagree with it , why don't you read it and give me comments on it ?\nPostdoc A: Yeah . Well {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that there 's one missing line .\n",
      "Professor B: Well , the one thing that I did read and that you just repeated to me {pause} was that you gave the specific date of July fifteenth .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And you also just said that the reason you said that was because someone said it to you . So what I 'm telling you {pause} is that what you should do is come up with a length of time that you guys think is enough\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor B: and you should use that rather than {pause} this date that you just got from somewhere . That 's all I 'm saying .\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: OK ?\nPostdoc A: I ha I have one question . This is in the summer period and presumably people may be out of town . But we can make the assumption , can't we ? that , um , they will be receiving email , uh , most of the month . Right ? Because if someone {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: It {disfmarker} well , it {disfmarker} well , you 're right . Sometimes somebody will be {pause} away and , uh , you know , there 's , uh {disfmarker} for any length of time that you {vocalsound} uh , choose {pause} there is some person sometime who will not {pause} end up reading it .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nProfessor B: That 's {disfmarker} it 's , you know , just a certain risk to take .\nPhD H: S so maybe when {disfmarker} Am I on , by the way ?\n",
      "Grad F: I don't know . You should be .\nPhD H: Oh . Hello ? Hello ?\nGrad F: You should be channel B .\n",
      "PhD H: Oh , OK . Alright . So . The , um {disfmarker} Maybe we should say in {disfmarker} w you know , when the whole thing starts , when they sign the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the agreement {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} you know , specify exactly uh , what , you know , how {disfmarker} how they will be contacted and they can , you know {disfmarker} they can be asked to give a phone number and an email address , or both . And , um , then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: We did that , I {disfmarker} I believe .\nPhD H: Right .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD H: So . {vocalsound} A And , then , you know , say very clearly that if they don't {disfmarker} if we don't hear from them , you know , as Morgan suggested , by a certain time or after a certain {vocalsound} period after we contact them {vocalsound} that is implicitly giving their agreement .\nGrad F: Well , they 've already signed a form .\nPostdoc A: And the form says {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: And nobody {disfmarker} nobody really reads it anyway .\nPhD H: Right .\nGrad F: So . And the s and the form was approved by Human Subjects ,\nPhD H: Says that . Right .\nPostdoc A: Uh , the f\nPhD H: Well , if that 's i tha if that 's already {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}\nGrad F: so , eh , that 's gonna be a little hard to modify .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well , the form {disfmarker} Well , the form doesn't say , if {disfmarker} uh , you know , \" if you don't respond by X number of days or X number of weeks {disfmarker} \"\nPhD H: I see . Uh {disfmarker} Oh , OK . So what does it say about the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the process of {disfmarker} of , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} y the review process ?\n",
      "Postdoc A: It doesn't have a time limit . That you 'll be provided access to the transcripts and then , uh , allowed to {pause} remove things that you 'd like to remove , before it goes to the general {disfmarker} uh , larger audience .\nPhD H: Oh , OK . Hmm . Right .\nGrad F: Here .\nPostdoc A: There you go .\nGrad F: You can read what you already signed .\nPhD H: Oh .\nPhD E: I guess when I {pause} read it , um {disfmarker}\nPhD H: OK .\n",
      "PhD E: I 'm not as diligent as Chuck , but I had the feeling I should probably respond and tell Adam , like , \" I got this and I will do it by this date , and if you don't hear from me by then {disfmarker} \" You know , in other words responding to your email {pause} once , right away , saying \" as soon as you get this could you please respond . \"\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "PhD E: And then if you {disfmarker} if the person thinks they 'll need more time because they 're out of town or whatever , they can tell you at that point ? Because {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Oh , I just {disfmarker} I didn't wanna do that , because I don't wanna have a discussion with every person {pause} if I can avoid it .\nPhD E: Well , it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad F: So what I wanted to do was just send it out and say \" on the fifteenth , the data is released ,\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: if you wanna do something about it , do something about it , but that 's it \" .\nPostdoc A: I {disfmarker} I kind of like this .\nPhD E: Well {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nPhD E: OK . So , we 're assuming that {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD H: Well , that 's {disfmarker} that would be great if {disfmarker} but you should probably have a {pause} legal person look at this and {pause} make sure it 's OK . Because if you {disfmarker} if you , uh , do this {vocalsound} and you {disfmarker} then there 's a dispute later and , uh , some {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you know , someone who understands these matters concludes that they didn't have , uh , you know , enough opportunity to actually {vocalsound} exercise their {disfmarker} their right {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Or they {disfmarker} they might never have gotten the email , because although they signed this , they don't know by which date to expect your email . And so {pause} someone whose machine is down or whatever {disfmarker} I mean , we have no {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: in internally we know that people are there ,\nGrad F: Well , OK . l Let me {disfmarker} Let me reverse this .\nPhD E: but we have no confirmation that they got the mail .\n",
      "Grad F: So let 's say someone {disfmarker} I send this out , and someone doesn't respond . Do we delete every meeting that they were in ?\nPhD E: Well , then {disfmarker}\nGrad F: I don't think so .\nPhD E: It {disfmarker} we 're hoping that doesn't happen ,\nPhD H: No .\nPhD E: but that 's why there 's such a thing as registered mail\nGrad F: That will happen .\nPhD E: or {disfmarker}\nPhD H: That will happen .\nPhD E: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: That will absolutely happen . Because people don't read their email , or they 'll read and say \" I don't care about that , I 'm not gonna delete anything \" and they don just won't reply to it .\nPhD H: Maybe {disfmarker} uh , do we have mailing addresses for these people ?\nGrad F: No . We have what they put on the speaker form ,\nPhD H: No .\nPostdoc A: Well {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} Most {disfmarker}\nGrad F: which was just generic contact information .\nPhD H: Oh .\n",
      "Postdoc A: But the ones that we 're dealing with now are all local ,\nPhD H: Well , then {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: except the ones who {disfmarker} I mean , we {disfmarker} we 're totally in contact with all the ones in those two groups .\nPhD H: Mmm . OK .\n",
      "Postdoc A: So maybe , uh , I {disfmarker} you know , that 's not that many people and if I {disfmarker} if , uh {disfmarker} i i there is an advantage to having them admit {disfmarker} and if I can help with {disfmarker} with processing that , I will . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} there is an advantage to having them be on record as having received the mail and indicating {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah . I mean I thought we had discussed this , like , a year ago .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Yes , we did .\nGrad F: And so it seems like this is a little odd for it to be coming up yet again .\nPostdoc A: You 're right . Well , I {disfmarker} you know . But sometimes {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , we {disfmarker} we haven't experienced it before .\nGrad F: So .\nPostdoc A: That 's right .\nProfessor B: Right ? So {disfmarker}\nPhD E: You 'll either wonder {pause} at the beginning or you 'll wonder at the end .\nPostdoc A: Need to get it right .\n",
      "PhD E: I mean , there 's no way to get around {disfmarker} I It 's pretty much the same am amount of work except for an additional email just saying they got the email .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nPhD E: And maybe it 's better legally to wonder before {disfmarker} you know , a little bit earlier than {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Well {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: It 's much easier to explain {pause} this way .\nGrad F: OK . Well , why don't you talk {pause} t\nPostdoc A: T t to have it on record .\n",
      "Grad F: Morgan , can you talk to our lawyer about it , and find out what the status is on this ? Cuz I don't wanna do something that we don't need to .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , but w Mmm .\nGrad F: Because what {disfmarker} I 'm telling you , people won't respond to the email . No matter what you do , you there 're gonna be people who {pause} you 're gonna have to make a lot of effort to get in contact with .\nPostdoc A: Well , then we make the effort .\nGrad D: I mean , i it 's k\n",
      "Grad F: And do we want to spend that effort ?\nPhD H: Hmm .\nPostdoc A: We make the effort .\nGrad D: It 's kind of like signing up for a mailing list . They have opt in and opt out . And there are two different ways . I mean , and either way works probably , I mean .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Except I really think in this case {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm agr I agree with Liz , that we need to be {pause} in the clear and not have to after the fact say \" oh , but I assumed \" , and \" oh , I 'm sorry that your email address was just accumulating mail without notifying you \" , you know .\nProfessor B: If this is a purely administrative task , we can actually have administration do it .\nPostdoc A: Oh , excellent .\n",
      "Professor B: But the thing is that , you know , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think , without going through a whole expensive thing with our lawyers , {vocalsound} from my previous conversations with them , my {disfmarker} my sense very {pause} much is that we would want something on record {pause} as indicating that they actually were aware of this .\nPostdoc A: Yes .\nGrad F: Well , we had talked about this before\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: and I thought that we had even gone by the lawyers asking about that and they said you have to s they 've already signed away the f with that form {disfmarker} that they 've already signed once .\nPostdoc A: I don't remember that this issue of {pause} the time period allowed for response was ever covered .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . We never really talked about that .\nGrad F: OK .\nPhD E: Or the date at which they would be receiving the email from you .\nPostdoc A: Or {disfmarker} or how they would indicate {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: They probably forgot all about it .\nProfessor B: We certainly didn't talk , uh , about {disfmarker} with them at all about , uh , the manner of them being {disfmarker} {vocalsound} made the , uh , uh , materials available .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD H: We do it like with these {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: That was something that was sort of just within our implementation .\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "PhD H: We can use it {disfmarker} we can use a {disfmarker} a ploy like they use to , um {disfmarker} you know , that when they serve , like {disfmarker} uh , uh , uh {disfmarker} {comment} uh , you know , like dead - beat dads , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they make it look like they won something in the lottery and then they open the envelope\nGrad D: And they 're served .\n",
      "PhD H: and that {disfmarker} Right ? Because {disfmarker} and then the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the thing is served . So you just make it , you know , \" oh , you won {disfmarker} you know , go to this web site and you 've , uh {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} \"\nPhD E: That 's why you never open these things that come in the mail .\nPostdoc A: That one .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Well , it 's just , we 've gone from one extreme to the other , where at one point , a few months ago , Morgan was {disfmarker} you were saying let 's not do anything ,\nPhD H: Right . {vocalsound} Right . No , it I {disfmarker} it might {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Well , it doesn't matter .\nPhD H: i i it {disfmarker} it might well be the case {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: and now we 're {disfmarker} we 're saying we have to follow up each person and get a signature ?\nPhD H: it might {disfmarker} Right .\nGrad F: I mean , what are we gonna doing here ?\nPhD H: It might well be the case that {disfmarker} that this is perfectly {disfmarker} you know , this is enough to give us a basis t to just , eh , assume their consent if they don't reply .\nProfessor B: Well .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD H: But , I 'm not {disfmarker} you know , me not being a lawyer , I wouldn't just wanna do that without {pause} having the {disfmarker} the expert , uh , opinion on that .\nPostdoc A: And how many people ? Al - altogether we 've got twenty people . These people are people who read their email almost all the time .\nGrad F: Then I think we had better find out , so that we can find a {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Let me look at this again .\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc A: I {disfmarker} I really don't see that it 's a problem . I {disfmarker} I think that it 's a common courtesy to ask them {disfmarker} uh , to expect for them to , uh , be able to have @ @ {comment} us try to contact them ,\nGrad F: For {disfmarker} for th\nPostdoc A: u just in case they hadn't gotten their email . I think they 'd appreciate it .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . My {disfmarker} Adam , my {disfmarker} my view before was about {pause} the nature of what was {disfmarker} of the presentation ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: of {disfmarker} of how {pause} my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} the things that we 're questioning were along the lines of how easy {disfmarker} uh , h how m how much implication would there be that it 's likely you 're going to be changing something , as opposed to {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: That was the kind of dispute I was making before .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm . I remember that .\n",
      "Professor B: But , um , the attorneys , I {disfmarker} uh , I can guarantee you , the attorneys will always come back with {disfmarker} and we have to decide how stringent we want to be in these things , but they will always come back with saying {vocalsound} that , um , you need to {disfmarker} you want to have someth some paper trail or {disfmarker} which includes electronic trail {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that they have , uh , in fact {pause} O K 'd it .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , um , I think that if you f i if {pause} we send the email as you have and if there 's half the people , say , who don't respond {pause} at all by , you know , some period of time , {vocalsound} we can just make a list of these people and hand it to , uh {disfmarker} you know , just give it to me and I 'll hand it to administrative staff or whatever ,\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: and they 'll just call them up and say , you know , \" have you {disfmarker} Is {disfmarker} is this OK ? And would you please mail {disfmarker} you know , mail Adam that it is , if i if it , you know , is or not . \" So , you know , we can {disfmarker} we can do that .\n",
      "PhD E: The other thing that there 's a psychological effect that {disfmarker} at least for most people , that if they 've responded to your email saying \" yes , I will do it \" or \" yes , I got your email \" , they 're more likely to actually do it {comment} {pause} later {pause} than to just ignore it .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: And of course we don't want them to bleep things out , but it {disfmarker} it 's a little bit better if we 're getting the {disfmarker} their , uh , final response , once they 've answered you once than if they never answer you 'd {comment} at al at all . That 's how these mailing houses work . So , I mean , it 's not completely lost work because it might benefit us in terms of getting {pause} responses .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: You know , an official OK from somebody {pause} is better than no answer , even if they responded that they got your email . And they 're probably more likely to do that once they 've responded that they got the email .\nPostdoc A: I also think they 'd just simply appreciate it . I think it 's a good {disfmarker} a good way of {disfmarker} of fostering goodwill among our subjects . Well , our participants .\nProfessor B: I think the main thing is {disfmarker} I mean , what lawyers do is they always look at worst cases .\nGrad F: Sending lots of spam .\n",
      "Professor B: So they s so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} Tha - that 's what they 're paid to do .\nGrad F: Yep .\nProfessor B: And so , {vocalsound} it is certainly possible that , uh , somebody 's server would be down or something and they wouldn't actually hear from us , and then they find this thing is in there and we 've already distributed it to someone . So , {vocalsound} what it says in there , in fact , is that they will be given an opportunity to blah - blah - blah ,\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: but if in fact {disfmarker} if we sent them something or we thought we sent them something but they didn't actually receive it for some reason , {vocalsound} um , then we haven't given them that .\nGrad F: Well , so how far do we have to go ? Do we need to get someone 's signature ? Or , is email enough ?\nProfessor B: I i i em email is enough .\nGrad F: Do we have to have it notarized ? I mean {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . I mean , I 've been through this {disfmarker} I mean , I 'm not a lawyer , but I 've been through these things a f things f like this a few times with lawyers now\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: so I {disfmarker} I {vocalsound} I I 'm pretty comfortable with that .\nPhD C: Do you track , um , when people log in to look at the {disfmarker} ?\nGrad F: Uh . If they submit the form , I get it .\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad F: If they don't submit the form , it goes in the general web log . But that 's not sufficient .\nPhD C: Hmm .\nGrad F: Right ? Cuz if someone just visits the web site that doesn't {pause} imply anything in particular .\nPhD C: Except that you know they got the mail .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm . That 's right .\nGrad F: Right .\nPostdoc A: I {disfmarker} I could get you on the notify list if you want me to .\nGrad F: I 'm already on it .\nPostdoc A: For that directory ? OK , great .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So again , hopefully , um , this shouldn't be quite as odious a problem either way , uh , in any of the extremes we 've talked about because {vocalsound} uh , we 're talking a pretty small {pause} number of people .\nGrad F: W For this set , I 'm not worried , because {pause} we basically know everyone on it .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: You know , they 're all more or less here or it 's {disfmarker} it 's Eric and Dan and so on . But for some of the others , you 're talking about visitors who are {pause} gone from ICSI , whose email addresses may or may not work ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc A: Oh .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: and {disfmarker} So what are we gonna do when we run into someone that we can't get in touch with ?\nPostdoc A: I don't think , uh {disfmarker} They 're so recent , these visitors .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc A: I {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} they 're also so {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc A: They 're prominent enough that they 're easy to find through {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} I w I 'll be able to {disfmarker} if you have any trouble finding them , I really think I could find them .\nGrad F: Other methods ? OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Cuz it {disfmarker} what it {disfmarker} what it really does promise here is that we will ask their permission . Um , and I think , you know , if you go into a room and close the door and {disfmarker} and ask their permission {vocalsound} and they 're not there , it doesn't seem {comment} that that 's the intent of , uh , meaning here . So .\n",
      "Grad F: Well , the qu the question is just whether {disfmarker} how active it has to be . I mean , because they {disfmarker} they filled out a contact information and that 's where I 'm sending the information .\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad F: And so far everyone has done email . There isn't anyone who did , uh , any other contact method .\nProfessor B: Well , the way ICSI goes , people , uh , who , uh , were here ten years ago still have acc {vocalsound} have forwards to other accounts and so on .\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: So it 's unusual that {disfmarker} that they , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: So my original impression was that that was sufficient , that if they give us contact information and that contact information isn't accurate that {pause} we fulfilled our burden .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Then they just come back .\nPhD C: All my files were still here .\nPhD E: Same as us .\nPostdoc A: I just {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So if we get to a boundary case like that then maybe I will call the attorney about it .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: But , you know , hopefully we won't need to .\nPostdoc A: I d I just don't think we will . For all the reasons that we 've discussed .\nGrad F: Alright .\nProfessor B: So we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll see if we do or not .\nGrad F: Yep . And we 'll see how many people respond to that email .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad F: So far , two people have .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I think very few people will\nGrad F: So .\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , you know , people {disfmarker} people see long emails about things that they don't think {vocalsound} is gonna be high priority , they typically , uh , don't {disfmarker} don't read it , or half read it .\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor B: Cuz people are swamped .\nPostdoc A: And actually ,\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} didn't anticipate this so I {disfmarker} that 's why I didn't give this comment , and it {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} this discussion has made me think it might be nice to have a follow - up email within the next couple of days saying \" by the way , you know , we wanna hear back from you by X date and please {disfmarker} \" , and then add what Liz said {disfmarker} \" please , uh , respond to {disfmarker} please indicate you received this mail . \"\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , or e well , maybe even additionally , uh , um , \" Even if you 've decided you have no changes you 'd like to make , if you could tell us that \" .\nGrad F: Respond to the email . {comment} Yep .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm . It is the first time through the cycle .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Right . That would {disfmarker} that would definitely work on me . You know , it makes you feel m like , um , if you were gonna p if you 're predicting that you might not answer , you have a chance now to say that . Whereas , I {disfmarker} I mean , I would be much more likely myself ,\nPhD C: And the other th\n",
      "PhD E: given all my email , t to respond at that point , saying \" you know what , I 'm probably not gonna get to it \" or whatever , rather than just having seen the email , thinking I might get to it , and never really , {vocalsound} uh , pushing myself to actually do it until it 's too late .\nPhD C: Yeah . I was {disfmarker} I was thinking that it also {pause} lets them know that they don't have to go to the page to {pause} accept this .\nPhD E: Right . R Right . That 's true .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: I mean , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} Yeah . So that way they could {disfmarker} they can see from that email that if they just write back and say \" I got it , no changes \" , they 're off the hook .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: They don't have to go to the web page\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , the other thing I 've learned from dealing with {disfmarker} dealing with people sending in reviews and so forth , uh , is , um , {vocalsound} if you say \" you 've got three months to do this review \" , {vocalsound} um , people do it , you know , {vocalsound} two and seven eighths months from now .\nPhD C: and {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah . That 's true .\n",
      "Professor B: If you say \" you 've got three weeks to do this review \" , they do {disfmarker} do it , you know , two and seven eighths weeks from now {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they do the review .\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor B: And , um {disfmarker} So , if we make it {pause} a little less time , I don't think it 'll be that much {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Well , and also if we want it ready by the fifteenth , that means we better give them deadline of the first , if we have any prayer of actually getting everyone to respond in time .\nProfessor B: There 's the responding part and there 's also what if , uh , I mean , I hope this doesn't happen , what if there are a bunch of deletions that have to get put in and changes ?\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor B: Then {vocalsound} we actually have to deal with that\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm . Some lead time .\nProfessor B: if we want it to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Ugh ! Disk space ,\nPostdoc A: By the way , has {disfmarker} has Jeremy signed the form ?\nGrad F: oh my god ! I hadn't thought about that .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nGrad F: That for every meeting {disfmarker} any meeting which has any bleeps in it we need yet another copy of .\nPhD H: Oh .\nPhD C: Just that channel .\nGrad D: Can't you just do that channel ?\nPhD C: Oh , no . We have to do {disfmarker}\nGrad F: No , of course not .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . You have to do all of them ,\nGrad F: You need all the channels .\nGrad D: Oh .\nPhD C: Do you have to do the other close - talking ?\nPhD E: as well as all of these .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD E: You have to do all {disfmarker} You could just do it in that time period , though ,\nGrad F: Yes . Absolutely . There 's a lot of cross - talk .\nGrad G: Wow .\nPostdoc A: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD E: but I guess it 's a pain .\n",
      "Grad F: Well , but you have to copy the whole file .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Right ? Because we 're gonna be releasing the whole file .\nPhD E: Yeah . You 're right .\nPostdoc A: Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} you know , I think at a certain point , that copy that has the deletions will become the master copy .\nGrad F: Yeah . It 's just I hate deleting any data . So I {disfmarker} I don't want {disfmarker} I really would rather make a copy of it , rather than bleep it out\n",
      "Professor B: Are you del are you bleeping it by adding ?\nGrad F: and then {disfmarker} Overlapping . So , it 's {disfmarker} it 's exactly a censor bleep . So what I really think is \" bleep \"\nProfessor B: I I I I understand , but is {disfmarker} is it summing signals\nGrad F: and then I want to {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: or do you {pause} delete the old one and put the new one in ?\nGrad F: I delete the old one , put the new one in .\n",
      "Professor B: Oh , OK . Cuz {disfmarker}\nGrad F: There 's nothing left of the original signal .\nProfessor B: Oh . Cuz if you were summing , you could {disfmarker} No . But anyway {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah . It would be qui quite easy to get it back again .\nPostdoc A: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And then w I was gonna say also that the they don't have to stay on the system , as you know ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Then someday we can sell the {pause} unedited versions .\n",
      "Postdoc A: cuz {disfmarker} cuz the {disfmarker} the ones {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Say again ?\nPostdoc A: Once it 's been successfully bleeped , can't you rely on the {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: Or {pause} we 'll tell people the frequency of the beep\nProfessor B: Encrypt it .\nPhD C: and then they could subtract the beep out .\nGrad D: You can hide it . Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Can't you rely on the archiving to preserve the older version ?\nPhD H: Oh , yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: It wouldn't be that hard to hide it .\nPhD E: Right . Exactly . I see .\nGrad F: Yeah , that 's true . Yeah . Yep , that 's true .\nPhD E: See , this is good . I wanted to create some {pause} side conversations in these meetings .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . You could encrypt it , you know , with a {disfmarker} with a two hundred bit {disfmarker} {vocalsound} thousand bit , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: You can use spread spectrum .\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad D: Hide it .\nPhD E: So {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Here we go .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad D: Yeah , there you go .\nPhD E: Cuz we don't have enough asides .\nPhD H: I have an idea . You reverse the signal ,\nGrad D: There you go .\nPhD H: so it {disfmarker} it lets people say what they said backwards .\nGrad F: Backwards .\nGrad D: Then you have , like , subliminal , uh , messages ,\n",
      "Grad F: But , ha you 've seen the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} the speech recognition system that reversed very short segments .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nGrad D: like .\nGrad F: Did you read that paper ? It wouldn't work .\nPhD H: No .\nGrad F: The speech recognizer still works .\nPhD E: Yeah . And if you do it backward then {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: That 's cuz they use forward - backward .\nPhD E: H - good old HMM .\nGrad F: Forward but backward . That 's right .\n",
      "PhD E: No , it 's backward - forward .\nGrad F: Good point . A point . Well , I 'm sorry if I sound a little peeved about this whole thing . It 's just we 've had meeting after meeting after meeting a on this and it seems like we 've never gotten it resolved .\nPostdoc A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Well , but we never also {disfmarker} we 've also never done it .\nPhD E: Uh .\nGrad F: So .\nPostdoc A: This is the first cycle .\nPhD E: If it makes {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc A: There 're bound to be some glitches the first time through .\nProfessor B: So . {vocalsound} And , uh {disfmarker} and I 'm sorry responding without , uh , having much knowledge , but the thing is , uh , I am , like , one of these people who gets a gazillion mails and {disfmarker} and stuff comes in as\nGrad F: Well , and that 's exactly why I did it the way I did it , which is the default is if you do nothing we 're gonna release it .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Because , you know , I have my {pause} stack of emails of to d to be done , that , you know , fifty or sixty long , and the ones at the top I 'm never gonna get to .\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad F: And , uh {pause} So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Move them to the bottom .\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker} so the only thing we 're missing is {disfmarker} is some way to respond to easily to say , uh , \" OK , go ahead \" or something .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , right . So , i this is gonna mean {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Just re - mail them to yourself and then they 're at the bottom .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah . That 's actually definitely a good point . The m email doesn't specify that you can just reply to the email , as op as opposed to going to the form\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD H: In {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: And it also doesn't give a {disfmarker} a specific {disfmarker} I didn't think of it .\nPhD E: Right .\nGrad F: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: S I think it 's a good idea {disfmarker} an ex explicit time by which this will be considered definite .\nGrad F: Yeah , release .\nPostdoc A: And {disfmarker} and it has to be a time earlier than that endpoint .\nProfessor B: Yeah . It 's converging .\nPostdoc A: Yeah . That 's right .\n",
      "PhD H: This {disfmarker} um , I 've seen this recently . Uh , I got email , and it {disfmarker} i if I use a MIME - capable mail reader , it actually says , you know , click on this button to confirm receipt {pause} of the {disfmarker} of the mail .\nPostdoc A: Oh , that 's interesting .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nPhD H: So {disfmarker}\nGrad F: You {disfmarker} you can {disfmarker}\nGrad D: It 's like certified mail .\nGrad F: A lot of mailers support return receipt .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Could do that .\nPhD H: Right .\nGrad F: But it doesn't confirm that they 've read it .\nPhD H: No , no , no . This is different . This is not {disfmarker} So , I {disfmarker} I know , you can tell , you know , the , uh , mail delivery agent to {disfmarker} to confirm that the mail was delivered to your mailbox .\nPostdoc A: Mmm .\nGrad F: Right .\nPhD H: But {disfmarker} but , no . This was different . Ins - in the mail , there was a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Oh , just a button .\nPhD H: uh , th there was a button that when you clicked on it , it would send , uh , you know , a actual acknowledgement to the sender that you had actually looked at the mail .\nGrad F: Oh , yeah . Yeah . Unfor - Yeah , we could do that . But I hate that .\nPhD H: But it o but it only works for , you know , MIME - capable {disfmarker} you know , if you use Netscape or something like that for your n\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: You might as well just respond to the mail .\nProfessor B: And we actually need a third thing .\nPhD E: I mean\nPhD H: Right .\nProfessor B: It 's not that you 've looked at it , it 's that you 've looked at it and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and agree with one of the possible actions .\nPhD H: No , no . You can do that .\nProfessor B: Right ?\nPhD H: You know , you can put this button anywhere you want ,\nProfessor B: Oh ? Oh , I see .\n",
      "PhD H: and you can put it the bottom of the message and say \" here , by {disfmarker} you know , by clicking on this , I {disfmarker} I agree {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , you know , I acknowledge {disfmarker} \"\nProfessor B: That i i my first - born children are yours , and {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD E: Quick question . Are , um {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Well , I could put a URL in there without any difficulty and {pause} even pretty simple MIME readers can do that . So .\n",
      "Postdoc A: But why shouldn't they just {pause} email back ? I don't see there 's a problem .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah . Reply .\nPhD H: Right .\nPostdoc A: It 's very nice . I {disfmarker} I like the high - tech aspect of it ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: but I think {disfmarker}\nPhD H: No , no , no . {vocalsound} I actually don't .\nPostdoc A: I appreciate it .\nPhD H: I 'm just saying that\n",
      "Grad F: Well , I {disfmarker} cuz I use a text mail reader .\nPhD H: if ev but I 'm {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Don't you use VI for your mai ?\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Wow . That 's {disfmarker} that 's my guy . Alright .\nGrad F: You {disfmarker} you read email {pause} in VI ?\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Yeah . {vocalsound} I like VI .\n",
      "PhD H: So {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} i There 's these logos {pause} that you can put at the bottom of your web page , like \" powered by VI \" .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Wow .\nGrad D: I see .\nPhD E: Anyway , quick question .\nGrad F: You could put wed bugs in the email .\nPhD E: How m\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPhD E: Like , there were three meetings this time , or so\nPostdoc A: Six .\n",
      "PhD E: or how many ? Six ? But , no of different people . So I guess if you 're in both these types of meetings , you 'd have a lot . But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How {disfmarker} I mean , it also depends on how many {disfmarker} Like , if we release {disfmarker} this time it 's a fairly small number of meetings , but what if we release , like , twenty - five meetings to people ? In th\n",
      "Grad F: Well , what my s expectation is , is that we 'll send out one of these emails {pause} every time a meeting has been checked and is ready .\nPhD E: I don't know . Oh . Oh , OK . So this time was just the first chunk . OK .\nGrad F: So . Tha - that was my intention . It 's just {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} that we just happened to have a bunch all at once .\nPhD E: Well , that 's a good idea .\n",
      "Grad F: I mean , maybe {disfmarker} Is that {pause} the way it 's gonna be , you think , Jane ?\n",
      "Postdoc A: I agree with you . It 's {disfmarker} we could do it , uh {disfmarker} I I could {disfmarker} I 'd be happy with either way , batch - wise {disfmarker} What I was thinking {disfmarker} Uh , so this one {disfmarker} That was exactly right , that we had a {disfmarker} uh , uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I had wanted to get the entire set of twelve hours ready . Don't have it . But , uh , this was the biggest clump I could do by a time where I thought it was reasonable .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc A: People would be able to check it and still have it ready by then . My , um {disfmarker} I was thinking that with the {pause} NSA meetings , I 'd like {disfmarker} there are three of them , and they 're {disfmarker} uh , I {disfmarker} I will have them done by Monday . Uh , unfortunately the time is later and I don't know how that 's gonna work out , but I thought it 'd be good to have that released as a clump , too , because then , {vocalsound} you know , they 're {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they have a {disfmarker} it it 's in a category , it 's not quite so distracting to them , is what I was thinking , and it 's all in one chu But after that , when we 're caught up a bit on this process , then , um , I could imagine sending them out periodically as they become available .\n",
      "PhD E: OK .\nPostdoc A: I could do it either way . I mean , it 's a question of how distracting it is to the people who have to do the checking .\nProfessor B: We heard anything from IBM ? at all ?\n",
      "PhD C: Uh . Let 's see . We {disfmarker} Yeah , right . So we got the transcript back from that one meeting . Everything seemed fine . Adam {pause} had a script that will {pause} put everything back together and there was {disfmarker} Well , there was one small problem but it was a simple thing to fix . And then , um , {vocalsound} we , uh {disfmarker} I sent him a pointer to three more . And so he 's {pause} off and {pause} working on those .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah . Now we haven't actually had anyone go through that meeting , to see whether the transcript is correct and to see how much was missed and all that sort of stuff .\nPostdoc A: That 's on my list .\nGrad F: So at some point we need to do that .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Well , that 's on my list .\nPhD C: Yeah . It 's gonna have to go through our regular process .\n",
      "Grad F: I mean , the one thing I noticed is it did miss a lot of backchannels . There are a fair number of \" yeahs \" and \" uh - huhs \" that {disfmarker} it 's just {disfmarker} that aren't in there . So .\nPostdoc A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: But I think {disfmarker} Yeah . Like you said , I mean , that 's {disfmarker} that 's gonna be our standard proc that 's what the transcribers are gonna be spending most of their time doing , I would imagine ,\n",
      "Postdoc A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: once {disfmarker} once we {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yes , absolutely . Yeah .\nPostdoc A: One question about the backchannels .\nProfessor B: It 's gonna {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Do you suppose that was because they weren't caught by the pre - segmenter ?\nGrad F: Yes , absolutely . Absolutely .\nPostdoc A: Oh , interesting . Oh , interesting . OK .\nGrad F: Yeah . They 're {disfmarker} they 're not in the segmented .\nPostdoc A: OK .\n",
      "Grad F: It 's not that the {pause} IBM people didn't do it .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nGrad F: Just they didn't get marked .\n",
      "Postdoc A: OK . So maybe when the detector for that gets better or something {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} There 's another issue which is this {disfmarker} we 've been , uh , contacted by University of Washington now , of course , to , um {disfmarker} We sent them the transcripts that correspond to those {pause} six meetings and they 're downloading the audio files . So they 'll be doing that . Chuck 's {disfmarker} Chuck 's , uh , put that in .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah , I pointed them to the set that Andreas put , uh , on the {vocalsound} web so th if they want to compare directly with his results they can . And , um , then once , uh , th we can also point them at the , um , uh , the original meetings and they can grab those , too , with SCP .\nPhD E: Wait . So you put the reference files {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: No , no . They d they wanted the audio .\nPhD E: Or the {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: Jane sent them the , uh , transcripts .\n",
      "PhD E: No , I mean of the transcripts . Um . Well , we can talk about it off - line .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: There 's another meeting in here , what , at four ? Right ? Yeah , so we have to finish by three forty - five .\nPhD H: D d So , does Washi - does {disfmarker} does UW wanna u do this {disfmarker} wanna use this data for recognition or for something else ?\nPhD C: Uh , for recognition .\nPhD E: I think they 're doing w\nPhD H: Oh .\n",
      "PhD E: didn't they want to do language modeling on , you know , recognition - compatible transcripts\nPhD H: Oh . I see .\nPostdoc A: This is to show you , uh , some of the things that turn up during the checking procedure .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Postdoc A: Um @ @ {comment} So , this is from one of the NSA meetings and , uh , i if you 're familiar with the diff format , the arrow to the left is what it was , and the arrow to the right is {pause} what it was changed to . So , um . {vocalsound} And now the first one . \" OK . So , then we started a weekly meeting . The last time , uh {disfmarker} \" And the transcriber thought \" little too much \" But , {vocalsound} uh , really , um , it was \" we learned too much \" , which makes more sense syntactically as well .\n",
      "PhD H: And these {disfmarker} the parentheses were f from {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Then {disfmarker} Oh , this {disfmarker} that 's the convention for indicating uncertain .\nGrad F: U uncertains .\nPostdoc A: So the transcriber was right .\nPhD H: S\nPostdoc A: You know , she was uncertain about that .\nPhD H: OK .\nPostdoc A: So she 's right to be uncertain . And it 's also a g a good indication of the {disfmarker} of that .\nPhD H: Oh . {comment} OK .\n",
      "Postdoc A: The next one . This was about , uh , Claudia and {pause} she 'd been really b busy with stuff , such as waivers . Uh , OK . Um , next one . Um . {vocalsound} This was {pause} an interesting one . So the original was \" So that 's not {disfmarker} so Claudia 's not the bad master here \" , and then he laughs , but it really \" web master \" .\nGrad F: Web master .\nGrad D: Oh . {comment} Uh - oh .\n",
      "Postdoc A: And then you see another type of uncertainty which is , you know , they just didn't know what to make out of that . So instead of \" split upon unknown \" , {comment} it 's \" split in principle \" .\nGrad F: Yep .\nGrad D: Jane , these are from IBM ?\nGrad F: Spit upon ?\nGrad D: The top lines ?\nPostdoc A: No , no . These are {disfmarker} these are our local transcriptions of the NSA meetings .\nGrad F: No , these are {pause} ours .\n",
      "Postdoc A: The transcribers {disfmarker} transcriber 's version ver versus the checked version .\nGrad D: Oh . Oh , I see .\nPostdoc A: My {disfmarker} my checked version , after I go through it .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Um , then you get down here . Um . Sometimes some speakers will insert foreign language terms . That 's the next example , the next one . The , uh , version beyond this is {disfmarker} So instead of saying \" or \" , especially those words , \" also \" and \" oder \" and some other ones . Those sneak in . Um , the next one {disfmarker}\nGrad F: That 's cool .\nPhD H: Discourse markers .\nPostdoc A: S\nPhD H: Discourse markers .\nPostdoc A: Sorry , what ? Discourse markers ? Sure . Sure , sure , sure .\n",
      "PhD H: Discourse markers .\nPostdoc A: And it 's {disfmarker} and it makes sense\nPhD H: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc A: cuz it 's , like , below this {disfmarker} it 's a little subliminal there .\nPhD H: Yeah . Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Um . OK , the next one , uh , {vocalsound} this is a term . The problem with terminology . Description with th the transcriber has \" X as an advance \" . But really it 's \" QS in advance \" . I mean , I {disfmarker} I 've benefited from some of these , uh , cross - group meetings . OK , then you got , um , {vocalsound} uh , instead of \" from something - or - other cards \" , {comment} it 's \" for multicast \" . And instead of \" ANN system related \" , it 's \" end system related \" . This was changed to an acronym initially and it should shouldn't have been . And then , you can see here \" GPS \" was misinterpreted . It 's just totally understanda This is {disfmarker} this is a lot of jargon . Um , and the final one , the transcriber had th \" in the core network itself or the exit unknown , not the internet unknown \" . And it {disfmarker} it comes through as \" in the core network itself of the access provider , not the internet backbone core \" . Now this is a lot of {pause} terminology . And they 're generally extremely good ,\n",
      "PhD H: Mmm .\nPostdoc A: but , you know in this {disfmarker} this area it really does pay to , um {disfmarker} to double check and I 'm hoping that when the checked versions are run through the recognizer that you 'll see s substantial improvements in performance cuz the {disfmarker} you know , there 're a lot of these in there .\nPhD H: Yeah . So how often {disfmarker} ?\nGrad F: Yeah , but I bet {disfmarker} I bet they 're acoustically challenging parts anyway , though .\nPostdoc A: No , actually no .\n",
      "Grad D: Mmm .\nPostdoc A: Huh - uh .\nGrad F: Oh , really ? Uh , it 's {disfmarker} Oh , so it 's just jargon .\nPostdoc A: It 's jargon . Yeah . I mean this is {disfmarker} cuz , you know you don't realize in daily life how much you have top - down influences in what you 're hearing .\nPhD H: Well , but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: And it 's jar it 's jargon coupled with a foreign accent .\n",
      "PhD H: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} But we don't {disfmarker} I mean , our language model right now doesn't know about these words anyhow . So ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD H: you know , un until you actually {pause} get a decent language model , @ @ {comment} Adam 's right .\nGrad F: It probably won't do any better .\nPhD H: You probably won't notice a difference . But it 's {disfmarker} I mean , it 's definitely good that these are fixed . I mean , {vocalsound} obviously .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well , also from the standpoint of getting people 's approval ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: cuz if someone sees a page full of uh , um , barely decipherable w you know , sentences , and then is asked to approve of it or not , {vocalsound} it 's , uh , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Did I say that ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . That would be a shame if people said \" well , I don't approve it because {pause} the {disfmarker} it 's not what I said \" .\n",
      "Grad F: Well , that 's exactly why I put the extra option in ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Exactly . That 's why we discussed that .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: is that I was afraid people would say , \" let 's censor that because it 's wrong \" ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: and I don't want them to do that .\nPostdoc A: And then I also {disfmarker} the final thing I have for transcription is that I made a purchase of some other headphones\nPhD H: C\n",
      "Postdoc A: because of the problem of low gain in the originals . And {disfmarker} and they very much appro they mu much prefer the new ones , and actually I {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} I think that there will be fewer things to correct because of the {disfmarker} the choice . We 'd originally chosen , uh , very expensive head headsets\nGrad F: Yeah . Ugh !\nPostdoc A: but , um , they 're just not as good as these , um , in this {disfmarker} with this respect to this particular task .\nPhD H: Well , return the old ones .\n",
      "Grad F: It 's probably impedance matching problems .\nPostdoc A: I don't know exactly ,\nGrad F: But {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: but we chose them because that 's what 's been used here by prominent projects in transcription .\nProfessor B: Could be .\nPostdoc A: So it i we had every reason to think they would work .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD H: So you have spare headsets ?\nPostdoc A: Sorry , what ?\nPhD H: You have spare headsets ?\nGrad F: They 're just earphones . They 're not headsets . They 're not microphones .\n",
      "PhD E: Right .\nPhD H: No , no . I mean , just earphones ? Um , because I , uh , I could use one on my workstation , just to t because sometimes I have to listen to audio files and I don't have to b go borrow it from someone and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: We have actua actually I have {disfmarker} W Well , the thing is , that if we have four people come to work {pause} for a day , I was {disfmarker} I was hanging on to the others for , eh {disfmarker} for spares ,\nPhD H: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Postdoc A: but I can tell you what I recommend .\nProfessor B: No , but you 'd {disfmarker} If you {disfmarker} Yeah , w we should get it .\nPhD H: Sure . No problem .\nGrad F: But if you need it , just get it .\nPhD H: I just {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Come on .\nPhD H: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah . If you need it .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: It 'd just have to be a s a separate order {disfmarker} an added order .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , I still {disfmarker} I still need to get a pair , too .\nProfessor B: They 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they 're pretty inexpensive .\nPhD E: Yeah , that {disfmarker} We should order a cou uh , t two or three or four , actually .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad D: I 'm using one of these . Yeah .\nPhD E: We have {disfmarker}\nPhD H: I think I have a pair that I brought from home , but it 's f just for music listening\n",
      "Professor B: No . Just {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} just buy them .\nPhD E: Sh - Just get the model number\nPhD H: and it 's not {disfmarker} Nnn . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Just buy them .\nPhD E: and {disfmarker} Where do you buy these from ?\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Cambridge SoundWorks , just down the street .\nPhD E: Like {disfmarker} ? You just b go and b\nPostdoc A: Yeah . They always have them in stock .\nPhD E: Oh .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: That 'd be a good idea .\nPhD H: Anyway .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: W uh , could you email out the brand ?\nPostdoc A: Oh , sure . Yeah . OK .\nGrad F: Cuz I think {disfmarker} sounds like people are interested .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Definitely .\nGrad F: So .\nPostdoc A: It 's made a difference in {disfmarker} in how easy . Yeah .\nProfessor B: I realized something I should talk about . So what 's the other thing on the agenda actually ?\n",
      "Grad F: Uh , the only one was Don wanted to , uh , talk about disk space yet again .\nGrad D: Yeah . u It 's short . I mean , if you wanna go , we can just throw it in at the end .\nProfessor B: No , no . Why don't you {disfmarker} why don't you go ahead since it 's short .\nGrad D: Um , well , uh .\nGrad F: Oh , I thought you meant the disk space . Yeah , we know disk space is short .\nPhD H: The disk space was short . Yeah . That 's what I thought too .\n",
      "PhD E: That 's a great ambiguity .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: It 's one of these {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's social\nProfessor B: It 's {disfmarker} I i i it i\nPhD E: and , uh , discourse level\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah , it 's great . Yeah ,\nPhD E: Sorry .\nProfessor B: double {disfmarker} double {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah , it was really goo\n",
      "PhD E: See , if I had that little {pause} scratch - pad , I would have made an X there .\nGrad D: Thank you , thank you .\nGrad F: Uh , well , we 'll give you one then .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Um . {vocalsound} So , um , without thinking about it , when I offered up my hard drive last week {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Oh , no .\nGrad D: Um , this is always a suspect phrase .\nPhD E: It was while I was out of town .\n",
      "Grad D: But , um , no . I , uh {disfmarker} I realized that we 're going to be doing a lot of experiments , um , {vocalsound} o for this , uh , paper we 're writing , so we 're probably gonna need a lot more {disfmarker} We 're probably gonna need {vocalsound} that disk space that we had on that eighteen gig hard drive . But , um , we also have someone else coming in that 's gonna help us out with some stuff .\nProfessor B: We 've just ordered a hundred gigabytes .\n",
      "Grad D: So {disfmarker} OK . We just need to {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I think we need , like , another eighteen gig disk {pause} to be safe .\nProfessor B: Well , we 're getting three thirty {disfmarker} thirty - sixes .\nPhD E: So .\nProfessor B: Right ?\nGrad D: OK .\nProfessor B: That are going into the main f file server .\nPhD E: OK .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD C: Markham 's ordering and they should be coming in soon .\nGrad D: W Well . So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Soon ?\nGrad D: Yeah . I mean , I guess the thing is is , all I need is to hang it off , like , {vocalsound} the person who 's coming in , Sonali 's , computer .\nPhD H: Oh , so {disfmarker} so , you mean the d the internal {disfmarker} the disks on the machines that we just got ?\nGrad D: Whew . Or we can move them .\nGrad F: No .\nPhD C: These are gonna go onto Abbott .\nGrad F: Ne - new disks .\nPhD H: Or extra disk ?\n",
      "Professor B: Onto Abbott , the file server .\nGrad D: So are we gonna move the stuff off of my hard drive onto that when those come in ?\nGrad F: On {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Oh , oh . OK .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD E: Uh , i\nGrad F: Once they come in . Sure .\nGrad D: OK . That 's fine .\nPhD E: Do {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when is this planned for {pause} roughly ?\nPhD C: They should be {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I imagine next week or something .\n",
      "Grad D: OK .\nPhD E: OK . So {disfmarker}\nGrad F: If you 're {disfmarker} if you 're desperate , I have some space on my drive .\nGrad D: I think if I 'm {disfmarker}\nGrad F: But I {disfmarker} I vacillate between no space free and {pause} a few gig free .\nGrad D: Yeah . I think I can find something if I 'm desperate\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad F: So .\nGrad D: and , um , in the meantime I 'll just hold out .\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Grad D: That was the only thing I wanted to bring up .\nPhD C: It should be soon . We {disfmarker} we should {disfmarker}\nGrad D: OK .\nProfessor B: So there 's another hundred gig . So .\nGrad D: Alright . Great .\nPhD H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: OK . It 's great to be able to do it ,\nGrad D: That 's it .\nProfessor B: just say \" oh yeah , a hundred gig ,\nPhD E: Good .\nProfessor B: no big deal \" .\nGrad D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah . A hundred gig here , a hundred gig there .\nPhD E: Well , each meeting is like a gig or something ,\nGrad F: It 's eventually real disk space .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: so it 's really {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Um . Yeah . I was just going to comment that I I 'm going to , uh , be on the phone with Mari tomorrow , late afternoon .\nGrad F: Oh , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: We 're supposed to {vocalsound} get together and talk about , uh , where we are on things . Uh , there 's this meeting coming up , uh , and there 's also an annual report . Now , I never actually {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was asking about this . I don't really quite understand this . She was re she was referring to it as {disfmarker} I think this actually {pause} didn't just come from her , but this is {pause} what , uh , DARPA had asked for . Um , she 's referring to it as the an annual report for the fiscal year . But of course the fiscal year starts in October , so I don't quite understand w w why we do an annual report that we 're writing in July .\n",
      "PhD C: She 's either really late or really early .\nGrad F: Huh . Or she 's getting a good early start .\nProfessor B: Uh , I think basically it it 's none of those . It 's that the meeting is in July so they {disfmarker} so DARPA just said do an annual report . So . So . So anyway , I 'll be putting together stuff . I 'll do it , uh , you know , as much as I can without bothering people , just by looking at {disfmarker} at papers and status reports . I mean , the status reports you do are very helpful .\nPhD H: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , so I can grab stuff there . And if , uh {disfmarker} if I have some questions I 'll {disfmarker}\nGrad F: When we remember to fill them out .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . If {pause} people could do it as soon as {disfmarker} as you can , if you haven't done one si recently . Uh . {vocalsound} Uh , but , you know , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure before {pause} it 's all done , I 'll end up bugging people for {disfmarker} for more clarification about stuff . Um . {vocalsound} But , um , I don't know , I guess {disfmarker} I guess I know pretty much what people have been doing . We have these meetings and {disfmarker} and there 's the status reports . Uh . But , um . Um . Yeah . So that wasn't a long one . Just to tell you that . And if something {vocalsound} hasn't , uh {disfmarker} I 'll be talking to her late tomorrow afternoon , and if something hasn't been in a status report and you think it 's important thing to mention on {vocalsound} this kind of thing , uh , uh , just pop me a one - liner and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll have it in front of me for the phone conversation .\n",
      "PhD H: OK .\nProfessor B: Uh . I guess , uh , you you 're still pecking away at the {pause} demos and all that , probably .\nGrad F: Yep . And Don is {pause} gonna be helping out with that .\nProfessor B: Oh , that 's right .\nGrad F: So .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad F: Did you wanna talk about that this afternoon ?\nGrad D: Um .\nGrad F: Not here , but later today ?\nGrad D: We should probably talk off - line about when we 're gonna talk off - line .\nGrad F: OK . OK .\n",
      "Professor B: OK . Yeah , I might want to get updated about it in about a week cuz , um , I 'm actually gonna have a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a few days off the following week , a after the {disfmarker} after the picnic . So .\nGrad F: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: That 's all I had .\nGrad F: So we were gonna do sort of status of speech transcription {disfmarker} automatic transcription , but we 're kind of running late . So .\nPhD E: How long does it take you to save the data ?\nGrad F: Fifteen minutes .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nGrad F: So . If you wanna do a quick\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad F: ten minute {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Guess we should stop , like , twenty of at the latest .\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD E: We {disfmarker} we have another meeting coming in that they wanna record .\nProfessor B: And there 's the digits to do .\nPhD E: So .\nProfessor B: So maybe {disfmarker} may maybe {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah . Well , we can skip the digits .\n",
      "Professor B: We could . Fi - five minute report or something .\nPhD E: It 's up to you . I don't {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad F: Whatever you want .\nProfessor B: Well , I would love to hear about it ,\nGrad F: What do you have to say ?\nProfessor B: especially since {disfmarker}\nGrad F: I 'm interested , so {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Well , I 'm gonna be on the phone tomorrow , so this is just a {pause} good example of {pause} the sort of thing I 'd like to {pause} hear about .\n",
      "PhD E: Wait . Why is everybody looking at me ?\nPhD C: I don't know .\nGrad F: Sorry .\nProfessor B: Cuz he looked at you\nPhD H: What ?\nProfessor B: and says you 're sketching .\nPhD E: Uh . I 'm not sure what you were referring to .\nPhD H: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm not {disfmarker} actually , I 'm not sure what {disfmarker} ? Are we supposed to have done something ?\n",
      "Grad F: No . We were just talking before about alternating the subject of the meeting .\nPhD H: Oh .\nPhD E: Uh - huh .\nGrad F: And this week we were gonna try to do {pause} t automatic transcription {pause} status .\nPhD H: Alternating .\nPhD E: I wasn't here last week . Sorry .\nPhD H: Oh !\nPhD E: Oh .\nGrad F: But we sort of failed .\nPhD H: We did that last week . Right ?\nPhD E: Hhh .\nGrad F: No .\nProfessor B: I thought we did .\nGrad F: Did we ? OK .\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah . We did .\nGrad F: OK . So now {disfmarker} now we have the schedule . So next week we 'll do automatic transcription status , plus anything that 's real timely .\nPhD H: OK .\nPhD E: Oh . OK .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nProfessor B: OK . Whew !\nPhD C: Good update .\nGrad F: Whew !\nProfessor B: That was {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Dodged that bullet .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Nicely done , Liz .\nPostdoc A: A woman of few words .\n",
      "Professor B: But {disfmarker} but lots of prosody . OK . {vocalsound} OK .\nGrad F: Th\nPhD H: Uh , I mean , we {disfmarker} we really haven't done anything .\nGrad F: Excuse me ?\nPhD H: Sorry .\nPostdoc A: Well , since last week .\nPhD E: Yeah , we 're {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD H: I mean , the {disfmarker} the next thing on our agenda is to go back and look at the , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the automatic alignments because , uh , I got some {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I learned from Thilo what data we can use as a benchmark to see how well we 're doing on automatic alignments of the background speech {disfmarker} or , of the foreground speech with background speech .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD H: So .\n",
      "PhD E: And then , uh , I guess , the new data that Don will start to process {disfmarker}\nPhD H: But , we haven't actually {disfmarker}\nPhD E: the , um {disfmarker} when he can get these {disfmarker} You know , before we were working with these segments that were all synchronous and that caused a lot of problems\nPhD H: Mmm .\nPhD E: because you have timed sp at {disfmarker} on either side .\nGrad F: Oh . Right , right . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: And so that 's sort of a stage - two of trying the same kinds of alignments with the tighter boundaries with them is really the next step .\nGrad F: Right .\nPostdoc A: I 'll be interested .\n",
      "PhD E: We did get our , um {disfmarker} I guess , good news . We got our abstract accepted for this conference , um {disfmarker} workshop , ISCA workshop , in , um , uh , New Jersey . And we sent in a very poor abstract , but they {disfmarker} very poor , very quick . Um , but we 're hoping to have a paper for that as well , which should be an interesting {disfmarker}\nGrad F: When 's it due ?\nPhD E: The t paper isn't due until August . The abstracts were already due . So it 's that kind of workshop .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: But , I mean , the good news is that that will have sort of the European experts in prosody {disfmarker} sort of a different crowd , and I think we 're the only people working on prosody in meetings so far , so that should be interesting .\nPostdoc A: What 's the name of the meeting ?\nPhD E: Uh , it 's ISCA Workshop on Prosody in Speech Recognition and Understanding , or something like that {disfmarker}\nPhD H: It 's called Prosody to {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Good .\nPhD E: some generic {disfmarker} Uh , so it 's focused on using prosody in automatic systems and there 's a {disfmarker} um , a web page for it .\nProfessor B: Y you going to , uh , Eurospeech ? Yeah .\nGrad F: I don't have a paper\nPhD H: Yeah .\nGrad F: but I 'd kinda like to go , if I could . Is that alright ?\nProfessor B: We 'll discuss it .\nGrad F: OK . {vocalsound} I guess that 's \" no \" .\n",
      "Professor B: My {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} my car {disfmarker} my car needs a good wash , by the way .\nGrad F: OK . Well , that th Hey , if that 's what it takes , that 's fine with me .\nProfessor B: Um .\nGrad F: I 'll pick up your dry - cleaning , too . Should we do digits ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad F: Uh .\nPhD H: Can I go next ? Because I have to leave , actually .\nGrad F: Yep . Go for it . Hmm ! Thanks . Thank you .\n"
    ],
    "length": 20947,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 45,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The group members mainly talked about the details of the belief-net framework. They first discussed the way to make the definition of user and situation clear and set up the standards, e.g., user thrift, based on user's budget. Then they turned to the discussion about endpoint decision. They mentioned approaches including setting features/modes of like selling, fixing and exhibiting, and this inspired the group members to design user compatibility nodes of which value would depend on the user status and situation. They further discussed Go-there decision, which is related to the previous idea using the similar set of the ontologies. Finally, they shifted the topic to different probability computation methods for belief-nets and thought of solutions to issues with limited data annotation.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad A: Alright , so I 'm - I should read all of these numbers ?\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad E: Piece of paper ? I could borrow ?\nGrad A: Oh yeah .\nProfessor B: OK , so uh i um I don't know whether Ami 's coming or not um but I think we oughta just get started .\nGrad E: Nancy is uh currently in Berkeley but not here ?\nGrad C: Nancy 's still stick ?\nProfessor B: Don't know . Anyway\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Oh , so there you go . Anyway , so my idea f for today and we can uh decide that that isn't the right thing to do was to at {disfmarker} spend at least part of the time trying to eh build the influence links , you know which sets of things are uh relevant to which decisions and actually I had uh specific s suggestion to start first with the path ones . The database ones being in some sense less interesting to us although probably have to be done and so to do that so there 's {disfmarker} and the idea was we were gonna do two things\nGrad C: Is your mike on ?\n",
      "Professor B: Ah . Oh right , well . Yeah . We were gonna do two things one of which is just lay out the influence structure of what we think influences what\nGrad D: That 's funny .\n",
      "Professor B: and then as a uh separate but related task uh particularly Bhaskara and I were going to try to decide what kinds of belief nodes are needed in order to um do what we {disfmarker} what we need to do . Once so but du we should sort of have all of the uh basic design of what influences what done before we decide exactly how to compute it . So I didn't {disfmarker} did you get a chance to look at all {disfmarker} yet ?\nGrad D: Yeah , I looked at some of that stuff .\n",
      "Professor B: Great . OK so let 's start with the uh belief - nets , the general influence stuff and then we 'll {disfmarker} then we 'll also at some point break and talk about the techy stuff .\nGrad E: Well I think one could go there 's I think we can di discuss everything . First of all this I added , I knew from sort of basically this has to be there right ? Um\nProfessor B: Oh are you gonna go there or not ? Yeah , so one i\n",
      "Grad E: Given {disfmarker} given uh uh not transverse the castle , the decision is does the person want to go there or is it just\nProfessor B: Right , true . Does have to be there . And I 'm sure we 'll find more as we go that\nGrad E: And Hmm ? So Go - there in the first place or not is definitely uh one of the basic ones . We can start with that . Interesting effect . Um Is this basically true or false or maybe we 'll get\nProfessor B: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Which one ?\nGrad E: what ?\nGrad A: \" Go there \" .\n",
      "Grad E: m right .\nProfessor B: so there is this question about\nGrad E: Here we we actually get just probabilities ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: right for each down here .\nProfessor B: When we 're {disfmarker} yeah when we 're done . So {disfmarker} so\nGrad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: the {disfmarker} the reason it might not be true or false is that we did have this idea of when so it 's , you know uh current @ @ and so forth and so on or not at all ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: right ? And so that a decision would be do we want that so you could {disfmarker} two different things you could do , you could have all those values for Go - there or you could have Go - there be binary and given that you 're going there when .\nGrad E: When . How .\nProfessor B: Yeah and so forth .\nGrad E: Why ,\nProfessor B: So I 'll let\nGrad E: yeah .\nProfessor B: we 'll see .\nGrad E: Hmm ?\n",
      "Grad A: I mean it seems that you could um uh it seems that those things would be logically independent like you would wanna have them separate or binary , Go - there and then the {disfmarker} the possibilities of how to go there because {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: OK , that 's {disfmarker} let 's start that way .\nGrad A: because , you know it might be easy to figure out that this person is going to need more film eventually from their utterance but it 's much more complex to query when would be the most appropriate time .\n",
      "Grad E: Hmm . Hmm . OK . And so I 've tried to come up with some initial things one could observe so who is the user ? Everything that has user comes from the user model everything that has situation comes from the situation model - A . We should be be clear . But when it comes to sort of writing down when you {disfmarker} when you do these things is it here ? You sort of have to a write the values this can take .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: And here I was really uh in some s sometimes I was really sort of standing in front of a wall feeling very stupid because um {disfmarker} this case it 's pretty simple , but as we will see the other ones um for example if it 's a running budget so what are the discrete values of a running budget ? So maybe my understanding there is too impoverished .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: No uh\nGrad E: How can I write here that this is something , a number that cr keeps on changing ? But OK . Thus is understandable ?\nGrad A: Think so .\nGrad C: Yes .\nGrad E: So here for example .\n",
      "Professor B: You 've s have you seen this before at all Keith , these belief - net things ?\nGrad A: Uh , no , but I think I 'm following it . So far .\nGrad E: So here is the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} we had that the user 's budget may influence the outcome of decisions .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad E: There we wanted to keep sort of a running total of things .\nGrad D: Is this like a number that represents how much money they have left to spend ? OK , h well I mean how is it different from user finance ?\n",
      "Grad E: Um the finance is sort of here thought of as {disfmarker} as the financial policy a person carries out in his life , he {disfmarker} is he cheap , average , or spendy ?\nGrad D: Alright .\nGrad E: And um I didn't come uh maybe a user I don't know , I didn't want to write greediness , but\nGrad A: Yeah . Hmm .\nProfessor B: Or cheapness .\nGrad E: Welcome .\nGrad A: User thrift .\nGrad E: Welcome .\nProfessor B: Thrift , that 's good .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Great .\nGrad E: There it is .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . So Keith w what 's behind this is actually a program that will once you fill all this in actually s solve your belief - nets for you and stuff .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So this is not just a display , this is actually a GUI to a simulator that will if we tell it all the right things we 'll wind up with a functioning belief - net at the other end .\nGrad A: OK . OK .\nGrad E: And it 's so simple even I can use it .\nGrad A: Wow , that is simple .\n",
      "Grad E: OK , so here was OK , I can think of uh people being cheap , average , or spendy or we can even have a {disfmarker} a finer scale moderately cheap ,\nProfessor B: Doesn't matter .\nGrad E: doesn't matter . Agree there but here um I wasn't sure what to write in .\nProfessor B: Let 's {disfmarker} go ahead .\nGrad D: Well , I mean you 've written in {disfmarker} you 've written in what uh seems to be required like what else is {disfmarker} is do you want ?\nGrad E: If that 's permissible then I 'm happy .\n",
      "Professor B: Well yeah . So here 's {disfmarker} here 's what 's permissible is that you can arrange so that the um the value of that is gonna have to be updated and n it 's not a belief update , right ? It 's {disfmarker} you took some actions , you spent money and stuff , so the update of that is gonna have to be essentially external to the belief - net . Right ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: And then what you 're going to need is uh for the things that it influences . Well let 's {disfmarker} first of all let 's see if it does influence anything . And if it does influence anything then you 're gonna need something that converts from the {disfmarker} the number here to something that 's relevant to the decision there . So it could be ra they create different ranges that are relevant for different decisions or whatever {disfmarker} but for the moment this is just a node that is conditioned externally and might influence various things .\n",
      "Grad E: Hmm . Yeah {disfmarker} this is where um OK anyways let 's forget it .\nProfessor B: Well that 's fine . Well anyway , go ahead .\nGrad E: OK , and so this , oh that\nGrad D: The other thing is that um every time that 's updated beliefs will have to be propagated but then the question is do you {disfmarker} do we wanna propagate beliefs every single time it 's updated or only when we need to ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , that 's a good question . And uh does it have a lazy mode ? I don't remember .\n",
      "Grad D: Uh Well , I mean , in Srini 's thing there was this thing {disfmarker} there was this um option like proper inferences which suggests that uh doesn't happen , automatically .\nProfessor B: Oh right . Yeah . S probably does . Yeah someone has to track that down , but I {disfmarker} but uh And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and I think {disfmarker} actually uh\nGrad E: I just accidentally Oops .\n",
      "Professor B: one of the we w items for the uh user home base uh should be uh essentially non - local . I they 're only there for the day and they don't have a place that they 're staying .\nGrad D: Well\nGrad E: Oh just uh accidentally erased this , I {disfmarker} I just had values here such as uh um is he s we had in our list we had \" Is he staying in our hotel ? \" , \" Is he staying with friends ? \" , and so forth\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: uh so we 're OK .\n",
      "Professor B: So it 's clear where w w w where we are right now . So my suggestion is we just pick uh\nGrad E: Something down here ?\nProfessor B: one , you know one uh particular one of the uh well let 's do the first {disfmarker} first one let 's do the one that we sort of already think we did so w that was the {disfmarker} of the endpoint ?\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . And um Oops .\nGrad D: Is hmm\nGrad E: Ah ,\nGrad D: So it 's true or false ?\n",
      "Professor B: No , that 's {disfmarker} that 's a\nGrad E: OK . No no no , EVA .\nGrad D: So\nGrad E: Missed that one .\nGrad C: What 's the difference between mode and endpoint ?\nGrad D: I thought mode , yeah .\nProfessor B: although that\nGrad E: Um mode was um\nProfessor B: Well , that 's\nGrad D: Mode of transportation ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad D: OK . Also true or false .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: No , he has he hasn't filled them in yet , is what 's true .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , OK .\nGrad E: Did I or didn't I ?  Ah . Probably nothing done yet , oh I just did it on the upper ones , OK . Makes sense . OK , so this was EVA . Maybe we can think of more things , cross\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad A: Climb , rob .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad E: climb , emerge\nProfessor B: No no no , these are ju that 's just a point ,\nGrad C: Uh\nGrad D: Well some of those are subsumed by approach .\nProfessor B: this is ju\n",
      "Grad C: Would it be an endpoint if you were crossing over it ?\nGrad A: The Charles Bridge , you know .\nProfessor B: Yeah , would be a f for a given segment . You know , you {disfmarker} y you go {disfmarker} first go the town square\nGrad C: Well I eh\n",
      "Grad A: No , I mean , if you go to re you know if you go to Prague or whatever one of your {disfmarker} your key points that you have to do is cross the Charles Bridge and doesn't really matter which way you cross which {disfmarker} where you end up at the end but the part {disfmarker} the good part is walking over it , so .\nProfessor B: That 's subtle , but true . Anyway so let 's just leave it three {disfmarker} with three for now\nGrad E: Mm - hmm , mmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: and let 's see if we can get it linked up just to get ourselves started .\nGrad E: OK , we\nProfessor B: You 'll see it {disfmarker} you 'll see something comes up immediately , that the reason I wanna do this .\nGrad E: w well the uh user was uh definitely more likely to enter if he 's a local\nProfessor B: Right . Right .\nGrad E: more likely to view if he 's a tourist um and then of course we had the fact that given the fact that he 's thrifty and there will be admission then we get all these cross um\n",
      "Professor B: We did , but the three things w that {disfmarker} that it contributed to this in fact , the other two aren't up there . so one was the ontology\nGrad E: We 'll d what type of building is it ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And the {disfmarker} and the third thing we talked about was something from the discourse .\nGrad E: What he has mentioned before .\nProfessor B: OK , so this is w Right , so what w I {disfmarker} what we seem to need here , this is why it starts getting into the technical stuff\nGrad A: mm - hmm\n",
      "Professor B: the way we had been designing this , there were three intermediate nodes uh which were the endpoint decision as seen from the uh user model as seen from the ontology and as seen from the discourse . So each of those the way we had it designed , now we can change the design , but the design we had was there was a decision with the same three outcomes uh based on the th those three separate considerations\nGrad A: mm - hmm\nProfessor B: so if we wanted to do that would have to put in uh three intermediate nodes\nGrad E: Uh we can load it up it you know very simple .\nGrad A: So\n",
      "Professor B: and then what you and I have to talk about is , OK if we 're doing that and they get combined somehow uh how do they get combined ? But the {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they 're undoubtedly gonna be more things to worry about .\nGrad E: So this was adjusted for this one mode thing .\nGrad D: Oh yes .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: So that 's w w in our uh in {disfmarker} in Johno 's sort of pictogram everything that could contribute to whether a person wants to enter , view , or approach something .\n",
      "Professor B: Oh , it was called mode , so this {disfmarker} this is m mode here means the same as endpoint .\nGrad E: Is now this endpoint .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor B: OK , why don't we ch can we change that ?\nGrad E: We can just rename that , yeah .\nProfessor B: Alright . You know , but that was actually , yeah unfortunately that was a um kind of an intermediate versio that 's I don't think what we would currently do .\nGrad A: Can I ask about \" slurred \" and \" angry \" as inputs to this ?\nProfessor B: That 's a\n",
      "Grad A: What {disfmarker} why ?\nGrad D: Like they 're either true or false\nGrad E: The prosody ?\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad D: and they uh oh I see .\nGrad C: If the {disfmarker} if the person talking is angry or slurs their speech they might be tired or , you know\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . OK . Drunk .\nGrad D: Therefore\nGrad C: And , you know , possibly uh\nGrad A: Less likely to enter .\nGrad C: some ,\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad C: yeah .\nGrad D: uh I was thinking less likely to view\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . But that 's - that seems to , yeah . So {disfmarker} so my advice to do is {disfmarker} is get this down to what we think is actually likely to {disfmarker} to be a {disfmarker} a strong influence .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: But yeah , that was what he had in mind .\nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: So let 's think about this {disfmarker} this question of how do we wanna handle {disfmarker} so there 're two separate things . One is {disfmarker} uh at least two . One is how do we want to handle the notion of the ontology now what we talked about , and this is another technical thing Bhaskara , is uh can we arrange so that I think we can so that the belief - net itself has properties and the properties are filled in uh from on ontology items . So the {disfmarker} let 's take the case of the uh this endpoint thing , the notion was that if you had a few key properties like is this a tourist site , you know some kind of landmark is it a place of business uh is it something you physically could enter\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: OK , et cetera . So that there 'd be certain properties that would fit into the decision node and then again as part of the ou outer controlling conditioning of this thing those would be set , so that some somehow someone would find this word , look it up in the ontology , pull out these properties , put it into the belief - net , and then the decision would flow .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Now\n",
      "Grad E: Seems to me that we 've sort of e em embedded a lot , em embedded a lot of these uh things we had in there previously in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in some of the other final decisions done here , for example if we would know that this thing is exhibiting something um\nProfessor B: Right . Right .\nGrad E: if it 's exhibiting itself it is a landmark ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: meaning more likely to be viewed\nProfessor B: Yep .\nGrad E: if it is exhibiting pictures or sculptures and stuff like this , then it 's more likely to be entered .\n",
      "Professor B: I uh that 's {disfmarker} I think that 's completely right and um I think that 's good , right ? So what {disfmarker} what that says is that we might be able to uh take and in particular so {disfmarker} so the ones we talked about were uh exhibiting and selling\nGrad E: Accessibility .\nProfessor B: no , accessibility meant\nGrad E: If it 's closed one probably won't enter . Or if it 's not accessible to a tourist ever the likelihood of that person actually wanting to enter it ,\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad E: given that he knows it , of course .\n",
      "Professor B: Alright . So let me suggest this . Uh w could you move those up about halfway . Uh The ones that you th And selling I guess .\nGrad E: Yeah , all {disfmarker} all of these if it 's fixing things selling things , or servicing things\n",
      "Professor B: Right . So here {disfmarker} here 's what it looks like to me . is that you want an intermediate structure which i uh is essentially the or of uh for this purpose of {disfmarker} of uh selling , f fixing , or servicing . So that it uh that is , for certain purposes , it becomes important but for this kind of purpose uh one of these places is quite like the other . Does that seem right ? So we di\nGrad C: Basic you 're basically just merging those for just the sake of endpoint decision ?\nProfessor B: if we Yes .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So if {disfmarker} well it may be more than endpoint decisions , so the idea would be that you might wanna merge those three\nGrad E: These three ?\nProfessor B: Yeah . Eh ser s uh selling , fixing , and servicing .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad D: What ex um and so either those is true f or false ?\nProfessor B: Uh Uh well it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} i here 's where it gets a little tricky .\nGrad D: So\n",
      "Professor B: Uh from the belief - net point of view it is from another point of view of course it 's interest it 's {disfmarker} it 's important to know what it 's selling or servicing and so forth .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So for this decision it 's just uh true or false\nGrad D: OK . Yeah .\nProfessor B: and in th this is a case where the or seems just what you want .\nGrad D: OK .\nProfessor B: That {disfmarker} that if any of those things is true then it 's the kind of place that you uh\nGrad E: Um more likely to enter .\n",
      "Professor B: are more likely to enter .\nGrad D: So you just wanna have them all pointing to a summary thing ?\nProfessor B: You could , yeah . Yeah , so let 's do that . No no , no eh to {disfmarker} to an inter no , an intermediate node .\nGrad D: T\nGrad E: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: That 's the p part of the idea , is\nGrad E: Um is {disfmarker} is that the object type node ?\nProfessor B: I d\nGrad E: So are they the {disfmarker} is it the kind of object that sells , fixes , or services things ?\n",
      "Professor B: Well , o open up object type and let 's see what its values are .\nGrad E: Oh I just created it , it has none so far .\nProfessor B: Oh , well OK first of all it 's not objects , we called them entities , right ?\nGrad E: Yeah . And then we have sort of the um\nProfessor B: Let 's say I put commercial .\nGrad E: Yeah , I w I was just gonna commercial action inside where people p\nProfessor B: Well couldn't I do {disfmarker} let 's do commercial uh landmark and\nGrad E: And where was the accessible , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Well accessible I think is different cuz that 's tempor that {disfmarker} that varies temporally ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: whereas this is a\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: What would a hotel fall under ?\nProfessor B: I would call that a service , but {disfmarker} but I don't know .\nGrad C: Well I mean in terms of entity type ?\nProfessor B: Say w w well it 's co I would s a a again for this purpose I think it 's commercial . Someplace you want to go in to do some kind of business .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Grad D: Um what does the underscore - T at the end of each of those things signify ?\nGrad E: Um things . So places that service things sell things or fix things and pe places that e exhibit things .\nGrad D: Uh - huh . OK . OK . That also points to entity type I guess .\nGrad A: So we 're deriving um this {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} this feature of whether the {disfmarker} the main action at this place happens inside or outside or what we 're deriving that from what kind of activity is done there ? Couldn't you have it as just a primitive feature of the entity ?\n",
      "Professor B: Well you could , that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a choice .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: So uh\nGrad A: I mean it seems like that 's much more reliable cuz you could have outdoor places that sell things and you know indoor places that do something else\nProfessor B: Yeah , the problem with it is that it sort of putting in a feature just for one decision ,\nGrad A: and Hmm .\nProfessor B: now w we may wind up having to do that this i anyway , this i\nGrad A: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: at a mental level that 's what we we 're gonna have to sort out .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: So , you know what does this look like , what are {disfmarker} what are uh intermediate things that are worth computing , what are the features we need in order to make all these decisions\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: and what 's the best way to organize this so that um it 's clean and {disfmarker} and consistent and all that sort of stuff .\n",
      "Grad A: OK . I 'm just thinking about how people , human beings who know about places and places to go and so on would store this and it would probably {disfmarker} you wouldn't just sort of remember that they sell stuff and then deduce from that that it must be going on inside or something .\nGrad E: Well I think an entity maybe should be regard as a vector of several possible things , it can either em do s do sell things , fix things , service things , exhibit things , it can be a landmark at the same time as doing these things ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: it 's not either or mmm certainly a place can be a hotel and a famous site .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Many come to mind . Things can be generally um a landmark and be accessible . IE a {disfmarker} a castle or can be a landmark a or not accessible , some statue\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: you know can go inside .\nProfessor B: OK . Anyway so let me suggest you do something else . Uh which is to get rid {disfmarker} get rid of that l long link between who {disfmarker} the user and the endpoint .\n",
      "Grad E: Could we just move it like this ?\nProfessor B: No no , I don't want the link there at all .\nGrad E: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: Because what we 're gonna want is an intermediate thing which is uh the endpoint decisi the endpoint decision based o on the user models , so what we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} what we talked about is three separate endpoint decisions , so let 's make a new node\nGrad E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: Just as a suggestion maybe you could \" save as \" to keep your old one nice and clean and so you can mess with this one .\n",
      "Grad E: Mmm . The old one was not that not that important , I think but\nGrad C: OK , well , not a big deal then .\nGrad E: Let 's do it then .\nGrad C: Well the {disfmarker} Isn't there a \" save as \" inside of java base ?\nGrad E: But I can just take this\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad E: copy it somewhere else . This was user something\nProfessor B: Well this was\nGrad E: or\nProfessor B: uh let 's p put it this {disfmarker} let 's do endpoint underbar - U .\nGrad E: end point ?\n",
      "Professor B: i endpoint , e end poi this is sa\nGrad E: Ah .\nProfessor B: it 's the endpoint\nGrad E: Gotcha , yeah .\nProfessor B: let 's say underbar - U , so that 's the endpoint decision uh as seen through the\nGrad C: As related from the user model .\nProfessor B: Right . So let 's {disfmarker} let 's actually yeah so lin you can link that up to the\nGrad E: Should I rename this {pause} too ?\nProfessor B: uh yeah , so that , I guess that 's endpoint uh\nGrad E:  It 's underscore - E .\n",
      "Professor B: underscore - E for entity , and we may change all this , but . Right . And\nGrad E: OK , shouldn't I be able to move them all ? No . Or {disfmarker} ? Can I ? Where ? What ?\nProfessor B: Oh I d eh I don't know . Actually , I guess the easiest thing would move {disfmarker} mo move the endpoint , well , go ahead . Just do whatever .\nGrad E: Wasn't this possible ?\nProfessor B: Well .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad C: I think you have to be in move mode before\nGrad E: Uh - huh . OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Good . Right .\nGrad E: So now we 're looking for user related things that um\nProfessor B: Yeah . And uh maybe th maybe it 's just one who is the user , I don't know , maybe {disfmarker} maybe there 's more .\nGrad A: Huh .\nGrad E: Well if he 's usi if he 's in a car right now what was that people with Harry drove the car into the cafe\n",
      "Professor B: Never mind . Uh anyway , this is crude . Now but the {disfmarker} now so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} but then the question is uh so {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and we assume that some of these properties would come indirectly through an ontology , but then we had this third idea of input from the discourse .\nGrad E: Well let 's {disfmarker} should we finish this ,\nProfessor B: Sure ,\nGrad E: I mean but surely the user interests\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad C: The user thrift , the user budget .\nGrad E: yeah , yeah\n",
      "Professor B: Well , maybe , I again , I d well , OK , put em in but what we 're gonna wanna do is actually uh\nGrad C: Well is {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Here this was one of my problems we have the user interest is a {disfmarker} is a vector of five hundred values , so um That 's from the user model ,\nGrad D: Oh you mean level of interest ?\nGrad E: mm - hmm , no not levels of interest but things you can be interested in .\nGrad A: Well {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: somebody else has built this user model .\nGrad D: Oh I see ,\n",
      "Grad E: Gothic churches versus Baroque townhouses versus\nGrad D: right . So why is it oh it , so it 's like a vector of five hundred one 's or zero 's ?\nGrad E: Yea - n is that\nGrad D: Like for each thing are we {disfmarker} are you interested in it or not ?\nGrad E: yeah uh I {disfmarker} I think\nGrad D: I see .\nGrad A: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: OK . So uh you cou and so here let me give you two ways to handle that . Alright ? One is um you could ignore it . But the other thing you could do is have an {disfmarker} and this will give you the flavor of the {disfmarker} of what you could have a node that 's {disfmarker} that was a measure of the match between the object 's feature , you know , the match between the object the entity , I 'm sorry and the user .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Uh .\n",
      "Professor B: So you could have a k a \" fit \" node and again that would have to be computed by someone else\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but uh so that uh\nGrad E: Just as a mental note uh\nProfessor B: Yeah , that 's all .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . And {disfmarker} and should we say that this interests eh affects the likelihood of {disfmarker} of entering ?\nProfessor B: Yeah . I mean , we could .\nGrad E: Yeah . And also if it 's an expensive place to enter , this may also\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad D: Budget .\n",
      "Grad A: User schedule . \" Do I have time to go in and climb all the way to the top of the Koelner Dome {comment} or do I just have to {disfmarker} \" \" time to take a picture of the outside ? \"\nGrad E: Schedule ?\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad C: It seems like everything in a user model a affects {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well that 's what we don't wanna do , see that {disfmarker} se cuz then we get into huge combinatorics and stuff like that\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: an\n",
      "Grad C: Cuz if the , I mean , and if the user is tired , the user state ,\nGrad D: Well\nGrad C: right , it would affect stuff , but I can't see why e anything w everything in the model wouldn't be\nProfessor B: Well , but\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor B: Well , that {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} we can't do that , so we we 're gonna have to\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: but this is a good discussion , we 're gonna have to somehow figure out uh some way to encapsulate that uh so if there 's some general notion of for example the uh relation to the time to do this to the amount of time the guy has or something like that is {disfmarker} is the uh compatibility with his current state , so that 's what you 'd have to do , you 'd have to get it down to something which uh was itself relatively compact , so it could be compatibility with his current state which would include his money and his time and {disfmarker} and his energy\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , just seems like it 'd push the problem back a level .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor B: It does .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Yeah , but\nGrad D: No but , it 's more than that , like the {disfmarker} the more sort of you break it up like because if you have everything pointing to one node it 's like exponential whereas if you like keep breaking it up more and more it 's not exponential anymore .\nProfessor B: So it yeah , there are two advantages . That 's tha there 's one technical one\n",
      "Grad C: Sh - sh yeah , {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: and the other is it {disfmarker} it gets used\nGrad C: S so we 'd basically be doing subgrouping ? Subgrouping , basically into mo\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad C: so basically make it more tree like going backwards ?\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Right . But it {disfmarker} there 's two advantages , one is the technical one that you don't wind up with such big exponential uh CBT 's ,\nGrad E: Bhaskara ?\n",
      "Professor B: the other is it can be {disfmarker} it presumably can be used for multiple decisions .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So that if you have this idea of the compatibility with the requirements of an action to the state of the user one could well imagine that that was u\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor B: not only is it sim is it cleaner to compute it separately but it could be that it 's used in multiple places . Anyway th so in general this is the design , this is really design problem .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: OK , you 've got a signal , a d set of decisions um how do we do this ?\nGrad E: What do I have under user state anyhow cuz I named that already something . Oh that 's tired , fresh , yeah . Maybe should be renamed into physical state .\nProfessor B: Or fat user fatigue even .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad E: That 's with a \" G \" ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B:  Whatever .\nGrad E: Then we can make a user state .\nProfessor B: What 's th what we 're talking about is compatibility . Uh or something , I don't know , but .\n",
      "Grad C: I guess the {disfmarker} the question uh is It 's hard for me to imagine how everything wouldn't just contribute to user state again . Or user compatibility .\nProfessor B: Oh but the thing is that we uh uh we had some things that uh\nGrad E: That don't .\nProfessor B: that don't\nGrad E: The user interests and the user who {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who the user is are completely apart from the fact whether he is tired broke\n",
      "Grad C: Sure , but other {disfmarker} I thought though the node we 're creating right now is user compatibility to the current action , right ?\nProfessor B: the right\nGrad C: Seems like everything in the user model would contribute to whether or not the user was compatible with something .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh maybe not . I mean the {disfmarker} that 's the {disfmarker} the issue is um would Even if it was true in some abstract general sense it might not be true in terms of the information we actually had and can make use of . And anyway we 're gonna have to find some way to cl uh get this sufficiently simple to make it feasible .\n",
      "Grad E: Maybe um if we look at the {disfmarker} if we split it up again into sort of um if we look at the uh the endpoint again we {disfmarker} we said that for each of these things there are certain preconditions so you can only enter a place if you are not too tired to do so and also eh have the money to do so if it costs something so if you can afford it and perform it is preconditions . Viewing usually is cheap or free .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Is that always true ? I don't know .\nGrad C: Well , with the way we 're defining it I think yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: W w but that eh viewing it without ent yeah view w with our definition of view it 's free cuz you\nGrad E: And so is approaching .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Well what about the Grand Canyon , right ? No , never mind . I mean are there {disfmarker} are there large things that you would have to pay to get up close to like , I mean never mind , not in the current {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: No we have to enter the park .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: Eh almost by definition um paying involves entering ,\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: ge going through some\n",
      "Grad A: OK . Right , sure .\nProfessor B: Right . Uh So let me suggest we switch to another one , I mean clearly there 's more work to be done on this\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but I think it 's gonna be more instructive to {disfmarker} to think about uh other decisions that we need to make in path land . And what they 're gonna look like .\nGrad C: So you can save this one as and open up the old one , right and {disfmarker} and then everything would be clean . You could do it again .\n",
      "Professor B: Why , I think it 's worth saving this one but I think I 'd {disfmarker} I 'd like to keep this one\nGrad D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: cuz I wanna see if {disfmarker} if we 're gonna reuse any of this stuff .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Um so this might be What next ?\nProfessor B: Well you tell me , so in terms of the uh planner what 's {disfmarker} what 's a good one to do ?\nGrad E: Well let 's {disfmarker} th this go there or not I think is a good one .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh\nGrad E: Is a very basic one . So what makes things more likely that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well the fir see the first thing is , getting back to thing we left out of the other is the actual discourse .\nGrad E: So\nProfessor B: So Keith this is gonna get into your world because uh we 're gonna want to know you know , which constructions indicate various of these properties\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: s and so I {disfmarker} I don't yet know how to do this , I guess we 're gonna wind up pulling out uh discourse properties like we have object properties and we don't know what they are yet .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So that {disfmarker} that the Go - there decision will have a node from uh discourse , and I guess why don't we just stick a discourse thing up there to be as a placeholder for\nGrad E: We {disfmarker} we also had discourse features of course for the endpoint .\nProfessor B: Of {disfmarker} of course .\n",
      "Grad E: Identified that\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: and so again re that 's completely correct , we have the user model , the situation model here , we don't have the discourse model here yet . Much the same way as we didn't {disfmarker} we don't have the ontology here .\nProfessor B: Well the ontology we sort of said we would pull these various kinds of properties from the ontology like exhibiting , selling , and so forth .\nGrad E: Really .\nProfessor B: So in some sense it 's {disfmarker} it 's there .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But the discourse we don't have it represented at all yet .\nGrad E: Yeah . Um This be specific for second year ? Um And {disfmarker} and we probably will have uh something like a discourse for endpoint .\nProfessor B: But if we do it 'll have the three values .\nGrad E: Hmm ?\nProfessor B: It 'll have the EVA values if {disfmarker} if we have it .\nGrad E: Yeah . Yeah . OK just for starters and here discourse um\nProfessor B: For Go - there , probably is true and false , let 's say . That 's what we talked about .\n",
      "Grad E: um well , I think um we 're looking at the {disfmarker} the little data that we have , so people say how do I get to the castle and this usually means they wanna go there .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: So this should sort of push it in one direction\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad E: however people also sometimes say how do I get there in order to find out how to get there without wanting to go there .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: And sometimes um people say where is it\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: because they wanna know where it is but in most cases they probably\nProfessor B: Yeah , but that doesn't change the fact that you 're {disfmarker} you want these two values .\nGrad E: Oh yeah , true . So this is sort of some external thing that takes all the discourse stuff and then says here it 's either {pause} yep , yay , A , or nay . Yeah . OK ?\nProfessor B: And they 'll be a y uh , a user Go - there and maybe that 's all , I don't know .\n",
      "Grad D: Situation Go - there , I mean , because it 's {disfmarker} whether it 's open or not .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: OK , good .\nGrad D: That definitely interes\nProfessor B: Yep .\nGrad D: But that now that kind of um what 's the word\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad D: um the {disfmarker} that interacts with the uh EVA thing if they just wanna view it then it 's fine to go there when it 's closed whereas if they want to um\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad D: so\n",
      "Professor B: Right , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's where it starts getting to be uh uh essentially more interesting , so what uh Bhaskara says which is completely right is if you know that they 're only going to view it then it doesn't matter whether it 's closed or not\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: in terms of uh uh you know , whether {disfmarker} whether you wanna go there .\nGrad D: The time of day ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: right I {disfmarker} well , right .\n",
      "Grad C: It does matter though if there 's like a strike or riot or something .\nProfessor B: Absolutely there are other situational things that do matter .\nGrad D: Right . So yeah , that 's what I said just having one situational node may not be enough because this {disfmarker} that node by itself wouldn't distinguish\nProfessor B: Well i i it can have di various values . Yeah , but we eh you {disfmarker} you 're right it might not be enough .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , I mean , see I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm thinking that any node that begins with \" Go - there \" is either gonna be true or false .\nGrad A: Well , what {disfmarker} Whoops .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor B: Ah . I see that could be .\nGrad A: Also , that node , I mean the Go - there s S node would just be fed by separate ones for\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: you know , there 's different things , the strikes and the\nProfessor B: Could be . Yeah . N\n",
      "Grad D: Like situation traffic and so on .\nGrad A: Yeah , the time of day .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . So {disfmarker} so now the other thing that Bhaskara eh pointed out is what this says is that uh there sh should be a link , and this is where things are gonna get very messy from the endpoint uh decision\nGrad D: I guess the final\nProfessor B: maybe the t they 're final re and , I guess the very bottom endpoint decision uh to the Go - there node . And I {disfmarker} don't worry about layout ,\nGrad D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean then we 'll go {disfmarker} we 'll go nuts but\nGrad D: Mmm .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Maybe we could um have intermediate node that just the Endpoint and the Go - there S node sort of fed into ?\nProfessor B: Could be , yeah .\nGrad D: Right . Because that 's what we , I mean that 's why this situation comes up .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Well the Go - there , actually the Endpoint node could feed {disfmarker} feed into the Go - there S That 's right ,\nGrad D: Yeah , right .\n",
      "Professor B: so the Endpoint node ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: make that up t t to the Go - there then\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and again we 'll have to do layout at some point , but something like that . Now it 's gonna be important not to have loops by the way . Uh really important in {disfmarker} in the belief worl net world not to have loops\nGrad E: I was just gonna\nProfessor B: uh\nGrad D: Yes .\nGrad E: How long does it take you to {disfmarker} to compute uh\n",
      "Professor B: No it 's much worse than that . It {disfmarker} if i loo it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's not def i it 's not well defined if you 're there are loops ,\nGrad D: It {disfmarker} things don't converge , yeah .\nGrad E: uh R recursive action ?\nProfessor B: you just you have to there are all sorts of ways of breaking it up so that there isn't uh OK .\n",
      "Grad E: Uh but this isn't , this is {disfmarker} this line is just coming from over here .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , no it 's not a loop yet , I 'm just saying we {disfmarker} we , in no , in\nGrad D: Yeah . Well , but the good thing is we {disfmarker} we could have loopy belief propagation which {vocalsound} we all love .\nGrad E: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Right . OK , so anyway , so that 's another decision . Uh what 's {disfmarker} what 's another decision you like ?\n",
      "Grad E: OK , these have no parents yet , but I guess that sort of doesn't matter . Right ?\nProfessor B: Well , the idea is that you go there , you go comes from something about the user from something about the situation and the uh the discourse is {disfmarker} is a mystery .\nGrad E: I mean this is sort of This comes from traffic and so forth , yeah . Sh - Should we just make some\nProfessor B: Sure , if you want .\nGrad E: um if there 's parking maybe Mmm Oh who cares . OK . And if he has seen it already or not and so forth ,\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: OK . Um and discourse is something that sort of should we make a Keith note here ?\nProfessor B: Sure .\nGrad E: That sort of comes from Keith .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Just sort of so we don't forget . Oops . Have to get used to this . OK , whoops .\nGrad A: Um actually {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And then also the discourse endpoint , I {disfmarker} I guess endpoint sub - D is {disfmarker} if you wanna make it consistent .\nGrad C: Wh - ah .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Um actually is this the {disfmarker} the right way to have it where um go there from the user and go there from the situation just sort of don't know about each other but they both feed the go there decision because isn't the , I mean\nProfessor B: I think so . S\nGrad A: uh , hmm OK . But that still allows for the possibility of the {disfmarker} of the user model affecting our decision about whether a strike is the sort of thing which is going to keep this user away from {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Maybe not , a Right .\n",
      "Grad A: That {disfmarker} all that {disfmarker} that kind of decision making happens at the Go - there node .\nProfessor B: Uh y you {disfmarker} yeah you {disfmarker} i you {disfmarker} if you needed to do that .\nGrad A: Uh . If you needed it to do that .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad A: But uh OK I was just thinking I guess maybe I 'm conflating that user node with possible {disfmarker} possible asking of the user\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: you know hey there 's a strike on , uh does that affect whether or not you wanna go or something\nProfessor B: Ah . Good point , I don't {disfmarker} I don't know how we 're going to {disfmarker} t uh\nGrad A: or Yeah , so that might not come out of a user model but , you know , directly out of interaction .\nProfessor B: Right . Uh I gu yes my curr you know , don't yeah yeah yeah that 's enough .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Uh My current idea on that would be that each of these decision nodes has questions associated with it .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And the question wouldn't itself be one of these conditional things\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: you know , given that you know there 's a strike do you still wanna go ?\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But uh if you told him a bunch of stuff , then you would ask him do you wanna go ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . OK .\nProfessor B: But I think trying to formulate the conditional question , that sounds too much .\nGrad A: Right , right . Yeah . Right , sure , OK .\nProfessor B: To me .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Alright , but let me {disfmarker} let {disfmarker} let 's stay with this a minute\nGrad E: But\nProfessor B: because I want to do a little bit of organization . Before we get more into details . The organization is going to be that uh the flavor of what 's going on is going to be that uh as we s e sort of going to this detail indeed Keith is going to {disfmarker} to worry about the various constructions that people might use\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: and Johno has committed himself to being the parser wizard ,\nGrad A: Alright .\n",
      "Professor B: so what 's going to happen is that eventually like by the time he graduates , OK uh they 'll be some sort of system which is able to take the discourse in context and have outputs that can feed the rest of belief - net . I j wa I {disfmarker} I assume everybody knows that , I just wanna you know , get closure that that 'll be the game then ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: so the semantics that you 'll get out of the discourse will be of values that go into the various discourse - based decision nodes . And now some of those will get fancier like mode of transportation and stuff so it isn't by any means uh necessarily a simple thing that you want out . So uh if there is an and there is mode of transportation\nGrad E: And it there 's a sort of also a split if you loo if you blow this up and look at it in more detail there 's something that comes from the discourse in terms of what was actually just said what 's the utterance go giving us\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: and then what 's the discourse history give us .\nProfessor B: Yeah , well that , well , we 'll have to decide uh how much of th where that goes .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: That 's uh two things then .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: an and it 's not clear yet . I mean it could be those are two separate things , it could be that the discourse gadget itself integrates em as {disfmarker} which would be my guess that you 'd have to do see in order to do reference and stuff like that um you 've gotta have both the current discourse and the context to say I wanna go back there ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: wow , what does that mean and uh\nGrad E: Mm - hmm\nGrad A: Now . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Alright . So\n",
      "Grad E: But is th is this picture that 's emerging here just my wish that you have noticed already for symmetry or is it that we get for each {disfmarker} each decision on the very bottom we sort of get the sub - E , sub - D , sub - U and maybe a sub - O {disfmarker} \" O \" for \" ontology \" um meta node\nProfessor B: I don't know .\nGrad E: but it might just\nProfessor B: It could be .\nGrad E: could be\nProfessor B: This is {disfmarker} this is getting into the thing I wanna talk about next ,\nGrad E: so this\n",
      "Professor B: which is s if that 's true uh how do we wanna combine those ? O or when it 's true ?\nGrad E: but this eh w wou wou would be nice though that , you know , we only have at most four at the moment um arrows going f to each of the uh bottom decisions .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad E: And four you {disfmarker} we can handle .\nProfessor B: No .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad E: It 's too much ?\n",
      "Professor B: Well i i it see i if it 's fou if it 's four things and each of them has four values it turns out to be a big CPT , it 's not s completely impossi I mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's not beyond what the system could solve but it 's probably beyond what we could actually uh write down . or learn .\nGrad E: Right , true .\nProfessor B: Uh but , you know it 's four to the fourth . It 's pretty big . Uh .\nGrad C: Two fifty - six ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad C: is that what that\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , I mean it 's and I don't think it 's gonna g e I don't think it 'll get worse than that by the way , so le that 's a {disfmarker} that 's a good\nGrad D: Mmm yeah .\nGrad E: But {disfmarker} but four {disfmarker} didn't we decide that all of these had true or false ? So is {disfmarker} it 's four\nProfessor B: Uh for go there , but not f but not for {disfmarker} the other one 's three values for endpoint already .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , I mean you need actually three to the five because uh well I mean if {disfmarker} if it has four inputs and then it itself has three values\nGrad C: Right .\nGrad D: so I mean it can get big fast .\nGrad E: Um for endpoint ? No it 's {disfmarker} it 's sh\nProfessor B: EV - it 's the EVA .\nGrad E: yeah , down here , but this one only has two .\nProfessor B: No .\nGrad D: No it still has three ,\nProfessor B: Since ta they will still have three .\nGrad D: EVA .\n",
      "Professor B: Each {disfmarker} so you 're uh uh from each point of view you 're making the same decision .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So from the point of view of the ob of the entity\nGrad E: Want to view that , yeah yeah . C sl\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: yeah\nGrad D: This {disfmarker} and also , I mean , the other places where , like for example consider endpoint view , it has inputs coming from user budget , user thrift\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad D: so even\n",
      "Professor B: Those are not necessarily binary . S so we 're {disfmarker} we 're gonna have to use some t care in the knowledge engineering to not have this explode . And in fact I think it doesn't in the sense that um Read it , you know actually with the underlying semantics and stuff I think it isn't like you have two hundred and fifty - six different uh ways of {disfmarker} of thinking about whether this user wants to go to some place . Alright . So we {disfmarker} we just have to figure out what the regularities are and and code them . But um What I was gonna suggest next is maybe we wanna work on this a little longer but I do want to also talk about the thing that we started into now of uh well it 's all fine to say all these arrows come into the si same place what rule of combination is used there .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So th yes they {disfmarker} so these things all affect it ,\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor B: how do they affect it ? And belief - nets have their own beliefs about uh what are good ways to do that . So is it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's clearer n clear enough what the issue is ,\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor B: right ? So do we wanna switch that now or we wanna do some more of this ?\n",
      "Grad E: R basically w we just need to sort of in order to get some closure on this figure out how we 're gonna get this picture sort of uh completely messy .\nProfessor B: Well , here {disfmarker} he here 's one of the things that {disfmarker} that I th you sh you {disfmarker} no , I don't know how easy it is to do this in the interface but you {disfmarker} it would be great if you could actually just display at a given time uh all the things that you pick up , you click on \" endpoint \" , OK and everything else fades\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: and you just see the links that are relevant to that . And I does anybody remember the GUI on this ?\nGrad C: Uh d I would almost say the other way to do that would be to open u or make you know N - many belief - nets and then open them every time you wanted to look at a different one\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: vers cuz uh\nGrad E: It 's probably pretty easy do it {disfmarker} to do it in HTML , just {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah , but\nGrad E: Uh\nGrad D: HTML ?\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah I have each of these thing each of the end belief - nets be {disfmarker} be a page and then you click on the thing and then li consider that it 's respective ,\nProfessor B: Yeah the {disfmarker} well the b\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad E: but\nProfessor B: anyway so uh it clear that even with this if we put in all the arrows nobody is gonna be able to read the diagram .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Alright , so e we have to figure out some eh eh uh basically display hack or something to do this because anyway I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} let me consi suggest that 's a s not a first - order consideration , we have two first - order considerations which is what are the uh influences A , A , and B how do they get combined mathematically , how do we display them is an issue , but um\nGrad C: I don't , yeah I just don't think this has been designed to support something like that .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . Yeah , I {disfmarker} I mean , it might soon , if this is gonna be used in a serious way like java base then it might soon be necessary to uh start modifying it for our purposes .\nProfessor B: Right . Yeah , and Um I {disfmarker} that seems like a perfectly feasible thing to get into , but um we have to know what we want first . OK , so why don't you tell us a little bit about decision nodes and what {disfmarker} what the choices might be for these ?\nGrad D: So Ah , sorry . I guess that 's\n",
      "Grad C: You can technically wear that as you 're talking .\nGrad D: Yeah , it 's right , I guess I can do that .\nGrad A: Darn .\nProfessor B: Put it in your , yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: I guess this board works fine . So um recall the basic problem which is that um you have a belief - net and you have like a lot of different nodes all contributing to one node . Right ? So as we discussed specifying this kind of thing is a big pain and it 's so will take a long time to write down because for example if these S have three possibilities each and this has three possibilities then you know you have two hundred and forty - three possibilities which is already a lot of numbers to write down . So what um helps us in our situation is that these all have values in the same set , right ? These are all like saying EV or A , right ? So it 's not just a generalized situation like I mean basically we wanna just take a combination of {disfmarker} we wanna view each of these as experts ea who are each of them is making a decision based on some factors and we wanna sort of combine their decisions and create you know , um sorta weighted combination .\n",
      "Grad E: Hmm . ROVER , the ROVER decision .\nGrad D: The what decision ?\nGrad E: ROVER . All of their outputs combined to make a decision .\nGrad A: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . Yeah . So the problem is to specify the uh so the conditional property of this given all those , right ? That 's the way belief - nets are defined , like each node given its parents , right ? So um that 's what we want , we want for example P of um let 's call this guy Y and let 's call these X - one , X - two XN , right . So we want probability that Y equals , you know , for example um E given that these guys are I 'll just refer to this as like X um hat or something , uh the co like all of them ? Given that for example the data says you know , A , V , A , E , or something right ?\n",
      "Professor B: Yep .\nGrad D: So we would like to do this kind of combination .\nProfessor B: Alright , so um Is that uh I {disfmarker} yeah , I just wanna make sure everybody is with us before he goes on .\nGrad A: I think so , yeah .\nProfessor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's cl e is {disfmarker} is it clear what he wants to compute ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad D: Right . So , right . So Basically um {vocalsound} what we don't wanna do is to for every single combination of E and V and A and every single letter E , s give a number\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: because that 's obviously not desirable . What we wanna do is find some principled way of um saying what each of these is and we want it to be a valid probability distribution , so we want it to um add up to one , right ?\nGrad A: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad D: So those are the two things that we uh need . So what uh I guess , what Jerry suggested earlier was basically that we , you know view these guys as voting and we just take the uh we essentially take um averages , right ? So for example here two people have voted for A , one has voted for V , and one has voted for E , so we could say that the probabilities are , you know , probability of being E is one over four , because one person voted for E out of four and similarly , probability of so this is probability of E s and then probability of A given all that is um two out of four and probability of V is one out of four . Right ? So that 's step {disfmarker} that 's the uh yeah that 's the {disfmarker} that 's the basic uh thing . Now\n",
      "Grad E: Um Yeah .\nGrad D: Is that all OK ?\nGrad E: And that one outcome , that 's\nProfessor B: What ?\nGrad E: it 's X {disfmarker} X - one voted for A X - two voted for V\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: and so forth ?\nProfessor B: Y right . Yep .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: S so this assumes symmetry and equal weights and all this sort of things , which may or may not be a good assumption ,\nGrad E: That 's the outcome .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Right .\n",
      "Professor B: so that\nGrad D: Yeah . Yeah . So step two is um right . So we 've assumed equal weights whereas it might turn out that you know , some w be that for example , what the um the actual the uh verbal content of what the person said , like what uh what might be uh somehow more uh important than the uh\nGrad C: X - one matters more i than X - two or\n",
      "Grad D: Right . Sure , so we don't wanna like give them all equal weight so currently we 've been giving them all weight one fourth so we could replace this by uh W - one , W - two , W - three , and W - four\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad D: right ? And in order for this to be a valid probability distribution for each um X - hat , we just need that the W 's sum to one . So they can be for example , you know you {disfmarker} you could have point one , point three , point two , and point four , say .\nGrad E: That 's one .\n",
      "Grad D: And that 'd be one . So that um also seems to work fine . And uh\nGrad C: So I jus just to make sure I understand this , so in this case um we would still compute the average ?\nGrad D: You 'd compute the weighted average , so the probability of E would be uh\nGrad C: OK , so {disfmarker} so it 'd be so in this case the probability that Y equals A would be uh {comment} W one times {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Point three .\nGrad C: or A or {disfmarker} let 's see , one full quarter times point one\n",
      "Grad D: Not one quarter ,\nGrad A: No .\nGrad D: so these numbers have been replaced with point one , point three , point two , and point four . So you can view these as gone .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: Probability of\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . Yeah . OK . So , alright . So this is uh step two . So the next possibility is that um we 've given just a single weight to each expert , right , whereas it might be the case that um in certain situations one of the experts is more uh reliable and in certain situations the other expert is more reliable . So the way this is handled is by what 's called a mixture of experts , so what you can have is you augment these diagrams like this so you have a new thing called \" H \" , OK ? This is a hidden variable . And what this is is it gets its input from X - one , X - two , X - three , and X - four , and what it does is it decides which of the experts is to be trusted in this particular situation . Right ? And then these guys all come here . OK . So this is sightly uh more complicated . So what 's going on is that um this H node looks at these four values of those guys and it decides in given these values which of these isn't likely to be more reliable or most reliable . So H produces some you know , it produces a number , either one , two , three , or four , in our situation , right ? Now this guy he looks at the value of H say it 's two , and then he just selects the uh thing . That 's all there is to say , I guess about it . Right , so you can have a mixture that\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad A: So {disfmarker} so the function of the thing that comes out of H is very different from the function of the other inputs . It 's driving how the other four are interpreted . OK .\nGrad D: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: So H passes a vector on to the next node ?\nGrad D: It could .\nGrad C: It could ? A vector of the weights as the se\nGrad D: Yeah , it could\nGrad C: oh .\nGrad D: Sorry ?\nGrad A: Well a vector with three zero 's and one one , right ?\n",
      "Grad C: Oh it 's basically to tell the bottom node which one of the situations that it 's in or which one of the weighting systems\nGrad D: Right , so I mean the way you desc\nGrad C: W I was just , if you wanted to pay attention to more than one you could pass a w a weighting s system though too , couldn't you ? OK .\n",
      "Grad A: Um Does H have to have another input to tell it alpha , beta , whatever , or is the {disfmarker} that 's determined by what the experts are saying , like the type of situ OK . Hmm . OK . OK . I mean It {disfmarker} it just seems that like without that {disfmarker} that outside input that you 've got a situation where , you know , like if {disfmarker} if uh X - one says no , you know , a low value coming out of X - on or i if X - one says no then ignore X - one , you know , I mean that seems like that 'd be weird ,\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , well could be things like if X - two and X - three say yes then i ignore X - one also .\nGrad A: right ? Oh , OK . OK . Alright , right .\nGrad C: Oh The situations that H has , are they built into the net or OK , so they {disfmarker} they could either be hand coded or learned or OK .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad C: Based on training data , OK .\nGrad D: Yeah . Yes .\nGrad C: So you specify one of these things for every one of those possi possible situations . Oh yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . Um Well , I mean to learn them we need data , where are we gonna get data ? Well I mean we need data with people intentions , right ?\nGrad A: Right , right .\nGrad D: Which is slightly tricky . Right .\nGrad A: Uh - huh .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . But what 's the data about like , are we able to get these nodes from the data ?\nGrad A: Like how thrifty the user is , or do we have access to that ? Mm - hmm . Oh right . Oh good . OK .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . OK .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , but that 's my question , like how do we {disfmarker} I mean , how do we have data about something like um um endpoint sub - E , or endpoint sub uh {pause} you know s S ?\nGrad C: Well , basically you would say , based on {disfmarker} in this dialogue that we have which one of the things that they said eh whether it was the entity relations or whatever was the thing that determined what mode it was ,\nGrad D: Mmm . Mmm .\nGrad C: right ?\n",
      "Grad D: So this is what we wanna learn . Yep . Right . Hmm . Yeah . I don't think , well you have a {disfmarker} can you bring up the function thing ? Um w where is the thing that allows you to sort of\nGrad C: That 's on the added variable , isn't it ?\nGrad D: Oh function properties , is that it ? Hmm , I guess not . Yeah , that 's\nGrad A: No .\n",
      "Grad D: Right . OK . And um it so e either it 'll allow us to do everything which I think is unlikely , I think more likely it 'll allow us to do very few of these things and in that case we 'll have to um just write up little things that allow you to um create such CPU 's on your own in the java base format . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah , I was assuming that 's what we 'd always do because yeah I was assuming that 's what we 'd always do , it 's Right . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Ah . Well in terms of java base I think it 's basically what you see is what you get in I don't yeah , I would be surprised if it supports anything more than what we have right here .\n",
      "Grad A: So Yeah . Yeah . By the way um uh just talking about uh about that general end of things uh is there gonna be data soon from what people say when they 're interacting with the system and so on ? Like , I mean , what kind of questions are being given {disfmarker} being asked ? Cuz {disfmarker} OK . Yeah yeah . OK . OK . Fey , you mean . OK . OK . O OK . OK . I 'm just wondering , because in terms of , you know , I mean uh w the figure {disfmarker} I was thinking about this figure that we talked about , fifty constructions or whatever that 's uh that 's a whole lot of constructions and um you know , I mean one might be f fairly pleased with getting a really good analysis of five maybe ten in a summer so , I mean I know we 're going for sort of a rough and ready . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . OK . OK . I mean , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was {disfmarker} uh I was talking about the , you know , if you wanted to do it really in detail and we don't really need all the detail for what we 're doing right now but anyway in terms of just narrowing that task you know which fifty do I do , I wanna see what people are using , so Well , it will inspire me . Right , sure sure . Right . Yeah , sure . Sure . Yeah . OK . Touche . Good enough .\n"
    ],
    "length": 16761,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 46,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This was a Children, Young People and Education Committee, and the purpose of the meeting is to undertake stage 2 proceedings on the Children (Abolition of Defense of Reasonable Punishment) Bill. This meeting followed a certain order to dispose of all amendments. It went through amendments in group 1 that related to the duty to promote public awareness, amendments in group 2 that related to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation, amendments in group 3 that related to the regulation-making powers in the Bill, amendments in group 4 that related to the duty to ensure sufficient funding, and finally amendments in group 5 that related to commencement. At the end of each section, they took a vote to decide whether certain amendments should be rejected or accepted.",
    "docs": [
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee this morning. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask if there are any declarations of interest from Members, please? No. Okay, thank you. Item 2 this morning is the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill: Stage 2 proceedings. I'm pleased to welcome Julie Morgan AM, Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services; Karen Cornish, deputy director, children and families division at Welsh Government; and Emma Gammon, lawyer for Welsh Government. Thank you for attending this morning and welcome to the committee. I'm just going to run through the procedures that we're going to follow now. As I said, the purpose of the meeting is to undertake Stage 2 proceedings on the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. For these proceedings, Members should have copies of the marshalled list of amendments, the groupings of the amendments for debate and the voting order for the amendments. The marshalled list of amendments is the list of all amendments tabled, marshalled into the order in which the sections appear in the Bill. The order in which we consider amendments will be the default order\u2014that is, sections 1 to 3 and the long title. You will see from the groupings list that amendments have been grouped to facilitate debate. However, the order in which they're called and moved for decision is dictated by the marshalled list. Members will, therefore, need to follow the two papers, although I will advise Members when I call them whether they're being called to speak in the debate or to move their amendments for a decision. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. Members who wish to speak in a particular group should indicate to me in the usual way. I will call the Deputy Minister to speak on each group. For the record, in accordance with the convention agreed by the Business Committee, as Chair I will move amendments in the name of the Deputy Minister. For expediency, I will assume that the Deputy Minister wishes me to move all of her amendments, and I will do so at the appropriate place in the marshalled list. Deputy Minister, if you do not want a particular amendment to be moved, please indicate to me at the relevant point in proceedings. In line with our usual practice, legal advisers to the committee and the Deputy Minister are not expected to provide advice on the record. If Members wish to seek legal advice during proceedings, please do so by passing a note to the legal adviser and, if necessary, we can adjourn. My intention is to try to dispose of all amendments during today's meeting. I will call a short break in proceedings at an appropriate time, if necessary. Okay, thank you. So, we will proceed, then, to group 1, which is the duty to promote public awareness. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 1 in the name of the Deputy Minister. I move amendment 1 in the Deputy Minister's name and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendment and the other amendments in this group.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you very much, Chair. My amendments 1 and 4 will place a duty on Welsh Ministers to provide information and increase awareness about the change in the law to ensure that the public are made aware of how the law will change as a result of the defence of reasonable punishment being abolished and that physical punishment would be prohibited once the Act commences. I tabled these amendments in response to this committee's recommendation\u2014this was a recommendation from this committee in the Stage 1 report, so I have responded to that. I've already made a commitment to a high-intensity awareness-raising campaign over approximately six years from Royal Assent, should the Bill be passed. I've considered amendments 1A to 1E, which have been tabled by Janet Finch-Saunders, and which relate to the duty to raise awareness. Amendment 1A introduces a reference to public understanding. We don't think, actually, that this adds anything to the Government amendment, which already mentions awareness. It makes the awareness-raising duty open-ended with no time limit, which is not necessary. By commencement, messaging around the change in the law will be embedded. The awareness-raising campaign will continue for a number of years. Therefore, an ongoing duty referring specifically to the law change would not be required. I understand, of course, that the awareness-raising campaign needs to be comprehensive, well planned and to reach out to all those people and all those communities who need to be aware of the law change, and understand how to respond to it. But I don't think it's helpful or necessary to highlight specific groups, such as visitors to Wales, on the face of the Bill\u2014that's the approach taken in amendment 1E\u2014as it risks placing too much emphasis on certain groups at the expense of others. In relation to children, the committee will know that I'm fully committed to children\u2019s rights, and that Welsh Ministers are already under a duty to have due regard to the rights of children whenever they exercise their functions. An additional due regard requirement, such as the one set out in amendment 1D, relating specifically to the need to promote awareness among children is not needed. This would be part and parcel of the Welsh Government approach to putting children\u2019s rights at the heart of our policy making. Similarly, I don't think it's necessary for the Bill to set out specifically the topics that need to be covered in the awareness-raising campaign, as is suggested in amendments 1B and 1C. That level of detail, I don't think, is for the face of the Bill. Information required about parenting support will be considered by the parenting expert group, under the auspices of the Bill\u2019s strategic implementation group, working with my officials and the expert stakeholder group on the awareness-raising campaign. And, really, their thinking should not be constrained in any way by specifications on the face of the Bill. I think we always need to bear in mind that what the Bill does is remove a defence to an existing criminal offence; it does not create a new offence. And in this context, it doesn't make sense for this Bill to contain a provision requiring the provision of information about how a person may raise concerns if it appears to them that a child is being physically punished. As I set out in my letter to this committee responding to recommendation 15 on this point, safeguarding is everyone\u2019s business, and, as now, the public have a role in highlighting to relevant services if they are concerned about a child. I'm asking for the support of Members for amendments 1 and 4, and I ask Members to reject amendments 1A to 1E because this would place unnecessary provisions on the face of the Bill.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. Are there other Members who wish to speak? Janet Finch-Saunders.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair. I wish to speak to amendments 1A to 1E, which relate to the Deputy Minister's amendment on the duty to promote public awareness. While we believe it is absolutely imperative that the public are made aware of this controversial change in the law, the Deputy Minister's amendment lacks a number of key points that the committee were actually keen to address at Stage 1. An important thread runs throughout each and every amendment that I've tabled within this group\u2014that of a sustained awareness campaign, which not only stretches beyond the implementation of the Bill, but serves as a duty for future administrations. Amendment 1A: primarily, amendment 1A changes amendment 1 to include the promotion of understanding changes to the law. I don't think it's enough for the Welsh Government to say that the public should be made aware of the coming into force of section 1 and that a public awareness campaign needs to be sustained until the Welsh Government's objectives have been achieved. Despite the fact that it is intended to change behaviour, the consequences of this law are far greater than that of organ donation or prohibiting smoking indoors. Instead of an opt-out system or a civil offence, this law will remove a defence for parents, information on which could be there on their records for the rest of their lives, potentially separate parents, and could affect employment chances. As such, whilst we agree with the necessity of the awareness campaign, it is important too that the Welsh Government take stock and ensures that parents are not penalised due to a weak awareness campaign. The witnesses we heard before this committee also noted the necessity of ensuring that the public understands\u2014\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, Dawn is asking if you'll take an intervention.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes.\nDawn Bowden AM: I just wanted to know\u2014could you give us examples of any other piece of legislation where there's been indefinite public awareness campaigns once it's been passed?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: There's a lot of legislation. The first Assembly term when I was here\u2014\nDawn Bowden AM: Yes, what I'm asking\u2014\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I'm trying to respond\u2014\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: What I'm asking for is: can you give us specific examples of where there have been indefinite public awareness campaigns running indefinitely past the enactment of a piece of legislation?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: The very first term that I was an Assembly Member, we passed 25 pieces of separate legislation. Even today, as I sit here, the public are not aware of many of those pieces of legislation. This particular piece of legislation will have a profound effect on the parenting of children in Wales. So, therefore, I think there is a necessity for both children and parents to become involved, and I shall speak now\u2014\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: With respect, Chair, that's not the question I asked.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: \u2014to my amendments.\nLynne Neagle AM: I can call you in the debate, if you'd like to make a more substantive contribution on this. Yes.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: The witnesses who we heard from before this committee also noted the necessity of ensuring that the public understands the implications. And that's what we're talking about here, Members\u2014the implications of removing this defence. Strikingly, the Office of Police and Crime Commissioner for Gwent stated the following: 'the potential for public resistance to the Bill through misunderstanding or confusion over it implications may pose the largest barrier to its implementation.' If you are intent on removing the defence of reasonable punishment, it is therefore not unreasonable to ensure that law-abiding parents fully understand the ramifications of this Bill. Additionally, the committee found that while the current Welsh Government's intention to deliver a public awareness campaign was beyond doubt, future Governments may have less of a commitment. This places further weight on the fact that the Welsh Government should be under a duty to promote awareness and understanding of the Bill beyond its commencement. Furthermore, the Children (Equal Protection from Assault) (Scotland) Bill quite clearly notes that, under section 2, the Scottish Ministers must take such steps as they consider appropriate to promote public awareness and understanding about the effect of section 1 on the abolition for the defence of reasonable punishment. Therefore, I would be grateful if the Deputy Minister can respond as to the reasons why the Welsh Government has deviated from this course of action in their amendment. [Interruption.] Should our amendment be agreed\u2014\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Are you taking an intervention?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: No. I'd rather crack on, to be honest.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay. I can call you in the debate, Hefin.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Should our amendment to be agreed, we also request that a printing change be made to ensure that the new heading reflects promoting awareness of the changes to the law made by section 1. Amendment 1B: amendment 1B is in line with the committee's recommendation 9, which stated that, as part of a public awareness campaign, there should be details about the support available to parents to use alternatives to physical punishment when disciplining their children. During evidence at Stage 1, the witnesses we saw before the committee raised serious concerns about harder-to-reach groups who needed to be made aware of removing the defence. For example, Children in Wales, Action for Children and Play Wales stated that some families and communities may be harder to reach with information and support. Welsh Government needs to make sure that they receive the information they need. Now, while the Deputy Minister states that she would work hard to ensure that harder-to-reach groups receive this information, a duty to provide information on alternatives to physical punishment would ensure that future Welsh Governments would maintain a successful awareness-raising campaign. I note the Deputy Minister accepted the recommendation, through our amendment, but this does not explicitly include a duty to provide details about support for parents. As will be expanded upon later, the Deputy Minister has relied upon the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign to be delivered alongside awareness raising. However, this is only an online resource and she must be clear about what other avenues will be available to parents who do not have access to the internet or are part of harder-to-reach groups. Amendment 1C: amendment 1C supports the committee's recommendation 15 that explains that the Welsh Government should ensure clear advice is provided on what people can do if they have seen or learned of a child being physically assaulted. We urged, at Stage 1, that although many professionals were already under a duty to report concerns about physical punishment, regardless of the Bill, other witnesses raised concerns that it could create the potential for claims of abuse that are unfounded. In particular, some were worried that children, who may not realise the implications of reporting, could make allegations that are actually untrue. While we would expect the awareness-raising campaign to include the consequences of false accusations, this could also be reflected among adults, if the public are not sufficiently made aware of how they can report and in what situations they can report a case of assault.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. I've got several speakers. I've got Suzy Davies first, then Dawn Bowden.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you Minister, and thank you, Janet, for that. I think it's worth just pointing out at this stage that the majority of the amendments that are being made and articulated by Janet there are based on committee recommendations, and those recommendations were made after taking evidence from the public at large, but also you as well. So, that suggests that, at that stage, we weren't reassured by the offer that you were making because we felt the need to put these recommendations into our report. Now, I recognise that you've moved some way on some of these amendments, and we'll been talking about that through the course of the debates on other groups. But the one thing to bear in mind here is this is legislation, now\u2014that means that this is the instrument of the Assembly, not of Government, and if this Assembly feels that the face of the Bill is unclear on the minimum requirements of a public awareness campaign, then we have the right to suggest the things that we would like to see in that public awareness-raising campaign. The list that Janet has given is a minimum. The reason these have been tabled individually and independently is that some may be acceptable where others may not be, so it will be disappointing to hear that you're rejecting them all, and the reason they need to go on the face of the Bill is that, if you are going to introduce specifics via regulation, at the moment we have no reassurance about how you're going to do that\u2014about what input the Assembly, on behalf of our constituents, could have in designing that public awareness-raising campaign. Unless you accept some amendments in other groups, that is the position with this Bill: the influence of the Assembly will be zero over the content of an awareness-raising campaign. In terms of it being non-time limited, I think the amendment has been tabled in the way it has not to oblige you to an everlasting, never-ending campaign of awareness raising. But if you bear in mind that, seven years after the introduction of this Bill, there's going to be some reporting on the effectiveness of the Bill, what is the point of doing that if you don't then have an obligation, should the reports require it to be necessary, to continue promoting the changes in the law? I accept that that can't go on for centuries, but to actually limit it to two years on an issue that is so sensitive, and which has a reach beyond our boundaries, I think is genuinely a mistake. Finally, you mention that safeguarding is everyone's business. I think that's true, but I think Janet Finch-Saunders was right to say that members of the public, ordinary individuals, not professionals, will need assurance that they're doing the right thing. The amendment as listed is not even there to encourage people to do that, although that can be read in that way, but it is to help them be certain that they are doing the right thing. If this is going to be up to the individual, as you've said, and the committee itself wasn't reassured that individuals would know what to do, perhaps I can ask you to consider at Stage 3, if you're going to reject this amendment, how you can reassure members of the public that, if they are going to intervene on the back of this law, they're making things better, not worse.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Suzy. Dawn.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: My comments, really, relate to ongoing awareness-raising campaigns, which I think all of us would want to see, and would appreciate in any changes in legislation. My point, really, is that we have a plethora of legislation that this Assembly has passed in the last 20 years, and I'm not aware of any legislation where, on the face of the Bill we have ongoing awareness-raising campaigns on an indefinite basis. It seems to me that, for some reason, you seem to be wanting to take a completely different approach to this piece of legislation. From what the Deputy Minister is saying\u2014and perhaps I will get some clarity on this\u2014there will be an amendment to the legislation that will say that we have an awareness campaign. That awareness campaign can be the subject of consultation with interested parties in terms of what needs to be included in it. It could also, I assume, Deputy Minister, be an awareness campaign that can be written into a set of guidance for future use. But the point I'm trying to make is that I don't believe that any piece of legislation requires ongoing and indefinite awareness-raising campaigns, and particularly in relation to visitors to Wales. Again, we have other pieces of legislation in Wales that are not applicable in the other parts of the UK. I am not aware that there is a necessity for awareness-raising campaigns with visitors coming into Wales on the raft of the other pieces of legislation that we have that they don't. And similarly, when we go to visit countries that have different legislation, we don't necessarily know what legislation we're going into when we visit that country\u2014you just go there and you accept that you go to a different country and you abide by their laws. So, my key point, Chair, is just the necessity of an ongoing, endless awareness campaign being written onto the face of the Bill.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Dawn. Hefin.\nHefin David AM: My comments follow logically from Dawn Bowden's comments, particularly in relation to amendments 1D and 1E. What you would be doing is that this Senedd, if this was on the face of the Bill, the duty on Ministers, would be putting the duty on Ministers in law beyond the life of the fifth Senedd, into the next Senedd term, and putting that duty on those newly elected Ministers after that, which, in principle, would be against the principles of binding\u2014\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin, are you taking an intervention from Suzy?\nHefin David AM: Yes, happy to.\nSuzy Davies AM: When you've finished your point.\nHefin David AM: I'm happy to take it now, because I was going to sum up by agreeing with the point you made, actually.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: I'd love that. You referred to this potentially binding Ministers in future Assemblies; at the moment, we've got an implementation period and a five-year reporting period that takes any reporting on this Act into the Assembly after next. I'm wondering if you're going to have any comments on that when we come to the amendment to change that later on.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Well, when we get to that amendment, I'll make comments if I feel it necessary. But at this point in time, we're talking about amendments 1D and 1E, and particularly in relation to 1D and 1E it just isn't necessary, given the fact that\u2014I won't call it a concession, because I think you made a reasonable point about the Minister making a statement at Stage 3, and I think Dawn Bowden actually supported that as well. That, therefore, makes those amendments unnecessary. Given that, in these circumstances, it is unnecessary to bind Ministers in future Parliaments. And that's my key point, really, which is why I wouldn't vote for those two amendments.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Si\u00e2n.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Thank you very much. I just want to speak against amendment 1A and also amendment 1B. I don't believe that there is a need for an indefinite campaign, as is outlined in 1A. I agree entirely that there is a need for a campaign during the period of change, and therefore I'm very glad to see that the Government has brought forward amendment 1, and I do hope that there will be a real push during the period of change. In terms of amendment 1B, I do have sympathy with what is being said here, but I believe that any kind of information or campaign in terms of enabling parents to learn about alternatives to physical punishment should be the subject of continual far-reaching work by the Government, through various programmes, and it should not be an addition on the face of this Bill, which deals with a small change to the common law. And then, on 1D also, if I may\u2014I don't agree with this either. Again, I believe that there is a need to promote awareness amongst children, but that should happen through the children's rights convention, as part of a broader programme to promote children's rights.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Si\u00e2n. I call on the Deputy Minister to speak, then.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you all very much for your contributions to the debate and your comments on these amendments today. I just want to re-emphasise that it is as a result of the recommendation from this committee that we are putting this duty to have the awareness campaign on the face of the Bill,\u00a0and I absolutely recognise the crucial role awareness raising has to play in supporting the implementation of the Bill. I'm very grateful for and appreciate the committee's interest and the work that you've done in this area of work. But I do think that these amendments are unnecessary. If we go through them, amendment 1A is really open-ended on promoting public awareness. We're committed to a high-intensity awareness over six years from Royal Assent, and there is an expert stakeholder group supporting us with the development of the awareness campaign. All the points that you've been making will be being considered by that group. I think the level of detail on the face of the Bill is not needed.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Would you just take an intervention on that just to help me understand? A two-year awareness-raising campaign\u2014how have you concluded that\u2014\nJulie Morgan AM: Six-year.\nSuzy Davies AM: I thought it was two years before section 1 comes into force.\nJulie Morgan AM: We've got six years from Royal Assent.\nSuzy Davies AM: Oh, so it is going to continue beyond section 1 coming into force\u2014\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes. Oh yes, it's going to continue.\nSuzy Davies AM: That's very helpful.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Definitely, yes. So, I don't think that's needed, amendment 1A. Amendment 1B, about support available to parents and how to access it\u2014again, this level of detail is not required on the face of the Bill. I just want to emphasise we have got this expert implementation group, who are working on all aspects of this Bill, many of whom represent organisations who gave evidence to this committee. The Bill is a simple one, with a clear purpose. It aims to remove the defence of reasonable punishment. I think lots of these amendments are very helpful and interesting, but would be discussed and would be acted on in the normal pathway of planning and development, and they're not required on the face of the Bill. So, I'm not putting them down, I'm just saying that we don't need them to be there on the face of the Bill. And then amendment 1C\u2014the information about how to raise concerns\u2014I do repeat that safeguarding is everybody's business, and the same issues apply now as will after this defence has been removed. Amendment 1D\u2014Ministers to have regard to the need to promote awareness among children\u2014now, children's rights are absolutely enshrined in our policy making, and the entire Bill is about protecting the rights of children. So, it is unnecessary duplication. So, we hope that the Bill will remain focused. Again, in terms of visitors, the level of detail is simply not required on the face of the Bill. Our awareness-raising campaign will be comprehensive. And then to pick up a few of the other points that were raised, revisions to the impact assessments are being considered as part of my commitment to update the explanatory memorandum ahead of Stage 3. So, there will be more details on the regulatory impact assessment. The issue that was raised about the Scottish Bill, that it refers to 'understanding'\u2014now, the Scottish Bill was not a Government Bill, it was a private Member's Bill, and our view is that nothing is added by adding the 'understanding'; 'awareness' is sufficient. So, basically, I think that the points made have been very useful, but I urge committee members to accept my amendments, but to reject those proposed by Janet Finch-Saunders, as they are unnecessary provisions in terms of what the awareness-raising duty needs to achieve.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. Before disposing of amendment 1, we will deal with the amendments to that amendment. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1A?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. The question is that amendment 1A be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we have an objection. I therefore take a vote by show of hands. The question is that amendment 1A be agreed. All those in favour, please raise your hands. All those against. There voted two in favour, four against. So, amendment 1A is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1B?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 1B be\u00a0agreed. Does any\u00a0Member object? [Objection.]\u00a0Okay, I'll take a vote by show of hands.\u00a0All those in favour of amendment 1B.\u00a0All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 1B is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1C?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. The question is that amendment 1C be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay. All those in favour of amendment 1C, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 1C is not agreed. Janet, do you want to move amendment 1D?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. The question is that amendment 1D be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, as there's an objection, I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 1D, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 1D is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 1E?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. The question is that amendment 1E be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 1E, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 1E is not agreed. If amendment 1 is not agreed, amendment 2C and amendment 4 will fall. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 1?\nJulie Morgan AM: I do.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Okay. I move amendment 1 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 1 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we have an objection, so we'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 1. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 1 is agreed. We'll move on now then to group 2, which relates to the duty to report on the effect of the legislation. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 2, in the name of the Deputy Minister. I move amendment 2 in the Deputy Minister's name, and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendments, and the other amendments in this group.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you, Chair. The amendments in this group are to do with the post-implementation review of the Bill, and I believe there was also a committee recommendation to this end from your committee, so you strongly influenced this amendment. It's clear from Members' contributions to this group and recommendations by the committee at Stage 1 that they share my commitment to the importance of post-implementation review of the effect of the abolition of the defence of reasonable punishment. I've already provided assurance that I agree with the importance placed on such a review, both in the explanatory memorandum and during Stage 1 scrutiny. I also made a commitment to bring forward a Government amendment to put a duty to undertake a post-implementation review on the face of the Bill. I have done this with amendment 2. Amendment 5 sets out that this provision will come into force the day after Royal Assent. As I said in my responses to the Stage 1 committee report, and as set out in the explanatory memorandum, the post-implementation review of this Bill will not be a single piece of work, but a continuous programme of work during the years following the commencement of section 1. Firstly, we will continue to conduct attitudinal surveys, which will be used to track changes in attitude towards the physical punishment of children and prevalence of parents reporting that they use physical punishment. The surveys will also be used to monitor the effectiveness of our awareness-raising campaign. Secondly, through a dedicated task and finish group, we are working with organisations to put in place arrangements to establish robust methods for capturing meaningful data relating to the Bill and to consider the possible impact on services. Turning to amendment 2C, this amendment would require Welsh Ministers to prepare and lay before the Assembly a report on the effect of their promotion of public awareness before section 1 is commenced. This amendment is unnecessary and is in conflict with what I think is a priority for the implementation of this Bill: that is, given certainty on the commencement date and in enabling us to work towards this with our partners and stakeholders. I also think this amendment is not required because, as I've already stated, we are preparing to assess the effectiveness of our awareness raising. In June, I shared the findings of a representative survey, which establishes a baseline on public awareness and opinion towards physical punishment of children and the proposed legislation. I shared this with the committee.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Deputy Minister. I open it up for discussion now, then. Janet Finch-Saunders.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Chair. I speak to amendments 2C, excluding 2D, to 2K, which relate to the Deputy Minister's amendment 2 on preparing a published report on the effect of abolishing the defence of reasonable punishment. Again, I must stress the importance of getting this right due to the controversial and long-lasting effects of removing the defence of reasonable punishment. Amendments 2E to 2K outline what we would expect to be within this report, and we would wish to see a commitment from the Deputy Minister to ensure the National Assembly for Wales is fully apprised and able to scrutinise the result of this report. Amendment 2C requests that the Welsh Government prepare a report on the awareness-raising campaign and lays it before the Assembly before section 1 commences. As I have outlined under my amendments in group 1, the understanding of the public about the implications of the Bill cannot be sidelined. Although the Deputy Minister has repeated her commitment to a public awareness campaign, we, as the National Assembly for Wales, must be able to scrutinise its effectiveness before section 1 begins. As I noted under amendments 1B to 1E, there are specific groups of people who need to be evaluated on their understanding of the Bill's effect. I'm sure that the Deputy Minister will agree that the harder-to-reach groups are undoubtedly the most vulnerable to any negative impacts that the Bill will have because of the greater potential of a lack of awareness. It is, therefore, important for the Assembly to be able to determine whether the awareness-raising campaign has had a positive effect on these groups of people. As will also be elaborated under amendment 2D, it is extremely important that we, as the Parliament of Wales, are fully apprised of the awareness-raising campaign's impact. Before we implement what will be a criminal offence, it is vital that we ensure that those affected are not adversely impacted because of a poorly targeted awareness campaign. Therefore, I would be grateful if the Deputy Minister would commit to an independent evaluation of the awareness campaign's effects before section 1 commences.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Janet. Suzy Davies.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, first of all, can I just say thank you for your opening remarks about the possibility of perhaps doing some work around amendment 2B? I'll come to that a little bit later, if I may. I just want to begin by commenting briefly on what you said about why you'll be rejecting amendment 2C here. I actually don't think that this amendment should affect or jeopardise the commencement date in any way at all. It's an operational requirement to get this work done before the commencement date that's in the draft Bill at the moment. So, failing to meet that would be as a result of operations not going well, rather than anything intrinsic in the Bill, so I'm not sure I can accept your argument on that. And, on 2D\u2014very pleased to hear that you'd be willing to introduce something about 'laying' rather than 'publishing' at Stage 3, but, in the spirit of recognising that this is the legislature, perhaps I could encourage you just to accept the amendment at this stage, because it doesn't make any difference. Your amendment is going to pass, and this amendment to it would be\u2014I think the gesture there would be very much appreciated. I'll be speaking mainly to amendments 2A and 2B, but I want to begin, again, by thanking you for moving some way on this and considering amendments to the Bill on the issue of reporting, because I know you were keen to avoid amendments in the name of simplicity; you mentioned it earlier. But this is not a newid bychan, I'm afraid, Si\u00e2n; the terms and the effect of this Bill are quite extensive, and it does need the reassurances, if you like, necessary to mitigate potentially disproportionate effects of this Bill on families where parents' actions had been lawful up until this point in statute. It does need statutory underpinning. So, I am grateful to you for accepting this duty. I know that you're sincere that you want this duty to report to show that the Bill is effective in stopping smacking as a punishment, and also that it is not as harmful to parents as perhaps some of us fear. But, if this were me bringing forward this Bill, I think I'd want to show the world that I was doing the right thing a lot sooner than you appear to wish to do. Amendment 2 means that the efficacy of the Bill will not formally be assessed until seven years after it has passed. There are Acts on the statute book that have lasted a lot less time than that. If you're relying on the two-year period before section 1 comes into operation to do much of the heavy lifting on the culture change, and I think that is what you're expecting\u2014you know, showing a reduction in the incidence of physical punishment, reducing the number of, and indeed the likelihood of, parents putting themselves in the path of criminal liability once those two years are up\u2014I really would have thought you'd want people to know sooner, or as soon as the first possible opportunity on that. Waiting five years, I think, will diminish the ability of you to prove the efficacy of those initial two years, and this is why I'm grateful to you for your offer, because there may be a way where we can overcome that. If the trend of culture change is continuing after year 3\u2014so, basically, in the first year after section 1 comes into effect\u2014that's great, but there's a possibility it's going to reverse. Again, I don't think I'd want to wait five years to find that out. For myself, I think one year would probably be enough, but I think three years is a reasonable compromise, as opposed to five years, for a reporting period. I think seven years is just way too long for a formal evaluation of a Bill's effectiveness. I can't see the reason for quite that length of time\u2014I know you've talked about New Zealand\u2014but neither can the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. I think that's worth pointing out. When they took the step of recommending this duty to evaluate and report, they also took the step of suggesting a three-year reporting period being more in keeping with other post-legislative scrutiny. That's something I think we perhaps need to bear in mind now, as we enter this period of the consolidation of law. Five/seven years is really something of an outlier, and while that might have been appropriate, perhaps, in New Zealand, I don't think that fits in with our timetables generally here in Wales, and, of course, there are other countries that have introduced this over a period of years, and I note that you haven't drawn on them in order to support your argument. So, can I urge Members and the Minister to consider the arguments behind these amendments? I don't think it's going to reassure anyone\u2014you may want to intervene at this point, Hefin\u2014that we not only won't hear in this Assembly, we won't hear in the next Assembly, about the formal evaluation of this, unless I follow\u2014\n",
      "Hefin David AM: I won't intervene; I'll speak.\nSuzy Davies AM: Is that okay?\nHefin David AM: Yes, I'll make the point.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay, I've got\u2014\nSuzy Davies AM: Yes, I'll take the intervention.\nLynne Neagle AM: No,\u00a0he doesn't want to make an intervention\u2014\nHefin David AM: I won't do an intervention; I'll speak.\nLynne Neagle AM: \u2014he'll make a contribution.\nSuzy Davies AM: Oh, apologies\u2014\nHefin David AM: Just to say\u2014\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: I'll wait.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Well, let me put the intervention\u2014. I'll do it as an intervention, then. I just feel that\u2014I take your point, and I was expecting it. The point I was making about 1D and 1E is they close down choices to Ministers in future Assemblies. An evaluative practice would actually open up those choices and give future Parliaments more options with regard to this Bill, so I think it's entirely consistent. I don't think the Minister, in putting in amendment 2, was trying to undermine my argument. Actually, I think she's being constructive by doing that, and I think amendment 2 is a practical amendment that's quite helpful, and its consequence will be to open up choices to future Parliaments, whereas my objection to 1D and 1E is they close those down.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay, well, as I say, I think, actually,\u00a0the Deputy Minister's offer of a three-year interim period might be part of a resolution to this. Because I'm not 100 per cent sure I accept your argument, either, because it closes it down for the interim period if we don't move on with the Deputy Minister's suggestion\u2014which I'll talk about now, actually. Because I am tempted to accept your offer. It absolutely makes sense and it's clearly made with the best good faith here. But I need some clarity on what you would allow this Assembly to do in helping define the terms of that interim report. Because you've been very clear that you don't want to accept the things that Janet Finch-Saunders has been talking about in a final report, and yet I can tell you we want to hear about these things. So, if you're in a position where you can give a commitment at Stage 3 not only to introduce an interim report, but that you will consult with, perhaps, this committee\u2014I'll leave it to you\u2014on the contents of that interim report, what we would want to see tested, then I'll be minded not to move amendment 2B. If you can't give me that reassurance, then I'm going to move it anyway and we'll return to it at Stage 3, if you don't mind. Just a final point on this issue of reporting within three months rather than as soon as practicable, and I do take your point that there may be a misalignment with reporting periods from the organisations you hope to talk to. Again, at Stage 3, I'm happy if you want to make three months six months, or something like that, but 'as soon as practicable' is open ended, and what you think is practicable may be very different from what I or my constituents think is practicable. So, I don't want to stick with what is practicable; I would like you to put a date on this. If it's a case that you think six months is long enough for data gathering and reporting from third parties, I think that's fairly reasonable as well, but I'm not minded to allow you to just keep this open ended. Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Suzy. Si\u00e2n.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, I welcome adding to the Bill through amendment 2, and what you've said today also, that you're willing to provide an interim report and bring an amendment forward to allow that through the Bill, and to lay a report before the Assembly. I am interested in what Suzy is saying, and have a lot of sympathy with trying to tie it down to specific time periods, and not say 'when it will be practicable'. Therefore, I would encourage you not to move your amendments if you have the confirmation that you want to hear this morning from the Minister regarding these issues.\nSuzy Davies AM: I would like to. Thanks.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Any other Members? No. Deputy Minister.\nJulie Morgan AM: Well, just to start off on that point, I think your suggestion about how we consult and discuss, I think I'm very happy to accept that. So, I'm happy to discuss that with you, and with the committee, before the third Stage. So, I hope you will consider removing\u2014.\nSuzy Davies AM: No, genuinely I am.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Right, thank you. Well, just to go on to cover some of the points that have been raised, on the issue of training now, I think Janet raised a number of points about training, and we do have an operations, procedures, processes and training task and finish group as part of our implementation work, and they are considering guidance and training requirements. There are many professional bodies represented on that group, many of whom I think have given evidence here today, and they've really got a chance to have their say. The officials are also looking at training as part of the revision of the explanatory memorandum at Stage 3, so there will be more information about training there. But we have this group looking at it, and it is very key. Generally, I think that all the contributions are very helpful, and I know they're meant in the spirit of trying to improve the legislation. I can't support amendments 2A, 2C, and amendments 2E to 2K, because these amendments make little difference in terms of practical effect to what we have in the Bill already, or they're covered by the Government amendments that I've moved. But I do hope the committee is reassured that we are committed to undertaking a very thorough, multifaceted review of the impact of the legislation that includes tracking public attitudes and considering impacts on\u00a0public services. Now, tracking the public attitudes will be going along at regular points, so there's no question there of having to wait; we'll be having regular reporting of public attitudes.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Would you take an intervention there, Deputy Minister? Thank you very much. Of course, I appreciate that you will not be supporting these amendments, but can you give us some indication of how many of the areas of interest to us you will be reporting on? So, even if this is not a statutory commitment, what exactly from our list, our wish list here, would you be prepared to include in your evaluation?\nJulie Morgan AM: Well, I would actually have thought all of them. All the areas you've raised are very relevant, I think. Obviously, this is not a statutory thing I'm saying, but\u2014\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: No, no, and this is not a\u2014\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes, but considering those points you've put forward, I think all of them have got a great deal of relevance. We will certainly be reporting to the group to consider any of the ideas that you've suggested and, in particular with the data collection and the monitoring task and finish group, which is about developing methods to collect data, we will be putting forward some of the suggestions that you've made on those issues. So, I don't see any problem with that at all.\nSuzy Davies AM: Thank you.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: So, as I say, I can't support the amendments. I'm hopeful you may withdraw the two amendments\u2014I think one of yours and it was one of Janet's, wasn't it\u2014so that we could work together on those before the next stage. Because I am sympathetic to your views on these matters, and I think they do reflect some of the discussions in the committee as well. So, I'd be happy to work with you to bring forward the amendments at Stage 3. In line with the recommendations of the Finance Committee, further details of the costs associated with the post-implementation review will be provided in a revised regulatory impact assessment at Stage 3. So, I think at this point I would ask that Members reject the non-Government amendments and agree to my amendments 2 and 5, which will ultimately achieve the same policy aim without the need for unnecessary detail on the Bill, with the exception, obviously, of those two amendments, which I'm prepared to look at a way of moving forward on.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you, Deputy Minister. Before disposing of amendment 2, we will deal with the amendments to that amendment. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2C?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2C be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 2C, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2C is lost. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 2A?\nSuzy Davies AM: I move amendment 2A, yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2A be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 2A, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2A is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2D?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\nLynne Neagle AM: Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2E?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2E be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 2E, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2E is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2F?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2F be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so can I see all those in favour of amendment 2F? All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 2F is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2G?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2G be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, can I see all those in favour of amendment 2G? All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against, and amendment 2G is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2H?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2H be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so can I see all those in favour of amendment 2H? All those against? So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2H is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2I?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2I be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay. Can I see all those in favour of amendment 2I? All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2I is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2J?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2J be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. Can I see all those in favour of 2J? All those against? So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2J is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 2K?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 2K be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I'll therefore take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 2K? All those against? So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 2K is not agreed. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 2B?\nSuzy Davies AM: In view of the Deputy Minister's reassurances, I won't move this amendment today, but obviously I reserve the right to bring something back if we can't reach consensus. Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Does any other Member wish to move amendment 2B? Okay, no. Thank you. We'll move on, then. If amendment 2 is not agreed, amendment 5 will fall. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 2?\nJulie Morgan AM: I do.\nLynne Neagle AM: Thank you. The question is that amendment 2 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 2\u2014\nSuzy Davies AM: Objection.\nLynne Neagle AM: You're objecting?\nSuzy Davies AM: Yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Right, we'll therefore take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 2, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 2 is agreed. That takes us on to group 3, which relates to the regulation-making powers in the Bill. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 3 in the name of the Deputy Minister. I move amendment 3 in the Deputy Minister's name and call on the Deputy Minister to speak to her amendments and the other amendments in this group.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you very much, Chair. Members will note that I've brought forward an amendment to provide certainty on the date of commencement of the core provision in the Bill, which is obviously to abolish the defence of reasonable punishment. And that is going to be debated under group 5. So, we're obviously debating that after we deal with these particular technical issues\u2014these are technical issues here, basically. As a consequence of proposing to remove the power for a Welsh Minister to make an Order for commencement, the power to make transitory, transitional or saving provisions in connection with section 1 of the Bill coming into force would also be removed. So, I'm not seeking here to add any new powers to the Bill; amendment 3 will simply add this existing power back onto the face of the Bill where amendments 7 and 8 remove it, and amendment 6 will bring the power into force the day after Royal Assent. In fact, removing the power for the Welsh Ministers to commence the provision in section 1 by Order means the statutory instrument will actually do less than originally intended. These amendments are technical in nature and while I acknowledge that the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee raised the issue of what procedure should be applied, their report did not call for any change to no procedure being applied. The absence of an Assembly procedure does not mean that Ministers' decisions in relation to transitional powers cannot be scrutinised by the Assembly. Any concerns about the Welsh Ministers' proposals could be put to me in the Senedd. This was a point made to CLAC and, as I say, their final conclusion was that no procedure is the appropriate procedure for such a power. For those reasons, I encourage Members to reject amendment 3A from Suzy.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Suzy Davies.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Thank you very much. Well perhaps, Deputy Minister, I can begin by saying that one person's technical issue is another person's essential part of the legislative procedure and a keen element in scrutiny. But I thank you for noting the Assembly's observations on the ministerial powers granted in this Bill\u2014this time by CLAC, as you say. Moving this\u2014and I'm glad actually that amendment 8, I think it was, has removed an Order provision and we're moving into an area where at least statutory instruments do feature here. I have to say that amendment 3A is something of a probing amendment, and I'll explain why now. Your amendment 3 seeks to give a familiar range of powers in connection with the coming into force of section 1, but it's actually in a substantive part of section 1 itself now\u2014it's not a separate commencement power. And, actually, I've been listening to the rest of this debate, and thinking that, if you're going to be introducing an awareness campaign and a report, the chances are you're going to need some regulatory powers to introduce some of the aspects of both those policy areas, I think. And I'm wondering whether the\u2014what is it\u2014transitory, transitional and saving provisions are actually enough powers for you under the course of this Bill. I'm wondering whether you want to consider actually amending this to give yourself the more usual unrestricted power to make regulations in order for you to get section 1 implemented, bearing in mind that it has now been amended from that original, very short and simple\u2014or at least simple in terms of drafting\u2014initial draft. As I say, in anticipation of you rejecting amendments in group 1 I tabled this, in order to make sure that an opportunity remains for the Assembly to bring anything you may wish to introduce under section 1, when it comes into effect, onto the floor of the Assembly. Because while I completely accept that you've acknowledged that statutory instrument is the process for introducing things from now on, it's still possible to do that without procedure, and so I have no idea whether you think what you introduce would be better suited to be introduced by a negative or affirmative procedure. Amendment 3A is a holding position, which we will return to you in Stage 3, because I think, again, this is an area where it might be valuable for us to discuss quite what kind of powers you're looking for, because I think you probably need something that's beyond transitional, transitory and saving.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Suzy, have you finished?\nSuzy Davies AM: Yes, thank you very much.\nLynne Neagle AM: Are there any other Members who wish to speak on this group? No. Deputy Minister.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: I thank Suzy for that input. We don't actually think it's necessary to have wider powers, but we will keep this under review and at Stage 3, I think that\u2014. When I was looking at this, I was concerned to know what the transitory powers\u2014what we would actually need to do at that stage, but I can understand that there may be links to other Bills in ways that we are not anticipating at the moment that would make it necessary to have those powers. So, basically, I don't think it is necessary to have wider powers, but I can assure you that we'll keep that in review coming up to Stage 3.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Can I just ask a question on the back of that?\nLynne Neagle AM: Will you take a brief intervention at the end, Minister?\nSuzy Davies AM: Will you take the briefest intervention before your full stop?\nJulie Morgan AM: I was going to end there, yes.\nSuzy Davies AM: Right, okay, well, just before your full stop, would you just confirm that you're happy for us to discuss this before Stage 3?\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes, very happy. Yes.\nSuzy Davies AM: Thank you, Chair.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Before disposing of amendment 3, we will deal with the amendment to that amendment. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 3A?\nSuzy Davies AM: I'll move it, yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 3A be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, I'll take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour of amendment 3A. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 3A is not agreed. If amendment 3 is not agreed, amendment 6 will fall. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 3?\nJulie Morgan AM: I do.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 3 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 3 is therefore agreed. The committee will now break for 10 minutes and reconvene at 11.05 a.m. Can I welcome Members back? We will move on to group 4, which relates to the duty to ensure sufficient funding. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 11 in the name of Janet Finch-Saunders. I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendment 11 and to speak to her amendments. Janet.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I speak to both amendments in this group. As I outlined under amendments 2I and 2J, there are ongoing concerns about the potential costs for Welsh devolved authorities and the lack of quantifiable costs within the regulatory impact assessment. Now, it was absolutely clear from evidence that we received in this committee that unknown costs would be challenging and potentially problematic. As I have mentioned previously, these concerns would doubtless be most keenly felt in our hard-pressed social services. Furthermore, the Welsh Local Government Association stated that there must be a commitment that whatever the costs are, those costs are met, because it is legislation that is being led by the National Assembly for Wales. Now, during evidence, the Deputy Minister, when asked about the reliance on a limited number of reporting of cases likely to happen and the potential for a degree of unknown costs stated: 'we are doing our very best to prepare to cover all eventualities that we can anticipate.' But you couldn't commit to a broad figure, instead telling us that: 'we have to rely on what the people who run those organisations are telling us.' And: 'We have to measure it as we go along.' Given that devolved authorities need to plan their budgets for these changes, we only think it is fair for the Welsh Government to provide sufficient funding to alleviate the cost implications of this Bill. Now, while amendment 11 makes reference to costs borne by local authorities and health boards, I note that amendment 12 takes this further by including other devolved authorities that are not funded by Welsh Government. Anticipating the Deputy Minister's response that few under this category, if any at all, would be affected by the Bill, we are pursuing a principle here, and it is agreement to the principle of providing sufficient funding that we are seeking from you as the Deputy Minister. Now, these are just two examples of Welsh Government legislation to date that have been underfunded. The Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013: last year, the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee found that the Wales annual spend on walking and cycling is half that of England's and one sixth of Holland's. Furthermore, the committee highlighted that the passing of the Act put a requirement on local authorities to continuously improve active travel routes, but were constrained by the funding made available to them. The Minister at the time announced a three-year funding settlement of \u00a360 million. Now, my local authority and other authorities that have done some monitoring on the active travel Act\u2014they simply were not awarded sufficient funding to actually allow the active travel Act to become a meaningful piece of legislation, and the same goes with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. This month, the auditor general has raised concerns that the public services boards created under the Act were limited in their work and impact due to the lack of dedicated funding. Outside of the Welsh Government's regional grant that cannot be spent on projects, councils often contribute through officer time or facilities, but resources and capacity to support those PSBs remain a key risk, as partners don't have the capacity to take on more. The reason that I wanted these amendments placed in here is I genuinely do not believe that you've even envisioned what, or even estimated the likely cost to be borne by the organisations, and certainly our local authorities and health boards, the impact this Bill is going to have.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Janet. Are there other Members who would like to speak in this group, please? No. Okay. I call the Deputy Minister, then.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you, Chair. I can understand that the Member is concerned about the impact of this Bill on public services, but you will see from the explanatory memorandum and from the raft of impact statements published with the Bill that we've done a thorough and extremely diligent job of considering the potential impacts of this Bill before introduction. And as far as we're aware, no other country has done more than us to consider the impacts of similar legislation, and also comprehensively prepared for implementation. We've explored the published data, which is available from other countries, on the impact of measures they've taken to prohibit the physical punishment of children. We've also spoken to a range of stakeholders in Ireland, New Zealand and Malta, who have legal systems similar to our own. And in these countries, there is no evidence that public services have been overwhelmed following law reform. And stakeholders have been clear when giving evidence to this committee that they do not consider there will be runaway costs, and I think we should trust their judgment on this. In fact, as this committee notes in its Stage 1 report, those delivering services on the front line have said, without exception, that 'this Bill will improve their ability to protect children living in Wales because it will make the law clear.' Sally Jenkins of the Association of Directors of Social Services said to this committee: 'In terms of thresholds for children\u2019s services, we would not be anticipating a huge number of referrals to us. There may be a small number of referrals that come through. What we know from other nations is that it will peak and then settle. We recognise that\u2019s likely to happen.' That's from the front line. Jane Randall, chair of the National Independent Safeguarding Board Wales, said: 'there's no expectation that there's going to be a huge increase in the number of referrals coming through to local authority social services, I think it would be dealt with within their existing resources.' And Dr Rowena Christmas, Royal College of General Practitioners, said: 'I can't see it's going to lengthen consultations. I can't see that it's going to increase the number of consultations, and I don't think it's going to increase the number of referrals I make to the health visitor or to social services, because if I was worried, I'd make those referrals now regardless of the Bill.' I just want to say again that the Bill is removing a defence to an offence of common assault, which has formed part of the common law of England and Wales for a very long time. And social services already receive and investigate reports of children being assaulted, including from health and education, so it's not a whole new area of costly activity for any of them. I do think that the evidence that you had at your committee did highlight those points. As I've already pointed out when discussing group 2 amendments, we're working with organisations to put in place arrangements to collect data about the possible impact on their services, and this will be analysed as part of the post-implementation review of the legislation. Welsh Government can consider with relevant organisations how best to manage any impact on workloads or resources and any cost implications. I can assure you that work to update the regulatory impact assessment has continued, and I've asked officials to prepare a revised RIA, as recommended at Stage 2, and I expect to share an updated RIA with you in advance of Stage 3. Serious consideration is being given on how to provide more detailed estimates of the unknown costs to public services arising from the Bill, but I think you should be reassured by the evidence that was given, particularly to this committee, from the professionals at the front line. What the amendments are proposing is outside the normal funding arrangements that operate within Government, and it's not clear why, in the context of the evidence heard at Stage I, such provisions are necessary. I'm sure that Members will agree that future Governments need to be able to consider, within the context of the budget-setting process, what the priorities are, and these considerations would need to be made within the context at that time, for example taking into account any issues that there are\u2014UK Government actions, what happens in relation to Brexit, or any other unforeseen impacts on the economy or Welsh society. All those issues would have to be taken into account. Furthermore, as is the case now, the National Assembly for Wales scrutinises the Welsh Government budget annually, so it would be able to make an argument for additional funding for public bodies, should it consider that this is required. I do think all the evidence has shown that we do not anticipate that there will be a huge increase of a demand for funding, so I urge Members to reject these amendments, which I believe are unnecessary.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Chair, could I ask a question?\nLynne Neagle AM: You can reply to the debate now, Janet, yes.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: I'd like to ask a question of the Deputy Minister. When we were taking evidence, at an earlier stage, I noticed that part of the stakeholder group\u2014there was some liaison going on with social services departments across Wales. Now, we have 22 local authorities. At that time, the numbers mentioned were quite small\u2014I think only a handful. What discussions have taken place with our local authorities in terms of their social services departments in terms of the lead, the cabinet members, or, indeed, the head of service? I can speak from my own experiences, when going around my constituency, but when I've spoken to some of the family support groups, and, indeed, the departments themselves, they are very concerned about the financial impact that this is going to have on the provision. They're already overstretched, and they see this as another burden\u2014primarily another financial burden. So, how much have you engaged with them?\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: There's been extensive engagement. We've had meetings with the Association of Directors of Social Services, and they're represented on all our groups, and we're working very closely with them, because, of course, they represent all the local authorities. But I have to say, when I've been going round and meeting lots of different groups, the first thing they say is, 'I'm so glad that you're doing this', and they haven't mentioned any financial implications. But, obviously, we will be very aware of\u2014we are looking at any more evidence that comes up.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Okay. So, I'll still move my amendments. I'm disappointed, really. I was hoping to see some commitment to\u2014this Bill was going to go through, and it's one that could be implemented fully, because sufficient resources were there. I'm not convinced about that, and I know that other organisations are not also. So, I move my amendments.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 11 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I therefore take a vote by show of hands. All those in favour. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 11 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 12?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 12 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] All those in favour of amendment 12. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 12 is not agreed. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 4?\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. I move amendment 4 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 4 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 4, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 4 is agreed. Deputy Minister, do you want to proceed to a vote on amendment 5?\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: I move amendment 5 in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 5 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 5, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against, and amendment 5 is agreed. Deputy Minister, do you want to move to a vote on amendment 6?\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: I move amendment 6, then, in the name of the Deputy Minister. The question is that amendment 6 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 6 is therefore agreed. This takes us, then, to the fifth and final group, which relates to commencement. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 9 in the name of Suzy Davies. And I call Suzy Davies to move amendment 9 and to speak to the amendment and the other amendments in the group.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Thank you very much, Chair. Amendment 9 is actually consequential on amendment 10 passing, but it's the lead amendment in the group, so I'll move it to begin the debate. Minister, I'm speaking here now to amendments 10 and 15 specifically. You've said repeatedly, and I believe you, that you do not wish to criminalise parents but just to stop them physically punishing their children. You could have chosen to try and achieve this through awareness raising and civil enforcement, but by choosing to remove the defence to a criminal act you have entered the arena of criminal law, where the logical consequence is opening parents up to liability\u2014not necessarily getting prosecuted, but liability to prosecution, not just liability to civil sanctions. I'm sure you'd prefer parents not to be prosecuted, but that decision does not and cannot lie with you. You, like us, have no agency in this, because the powers and the duties of the police and the Crown Prosecution Service sit outside our competence. You cannot and we cannot, by law or otherwise, instruct either of them in the delivery of your policy intention of not criminalising parents. You've acknowledged to this committee and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee that revised CPS charging guidance and any other guidance on, for example, out-of-court disposals, are key to delivering your policy objectives. You'll remember how concerned this committee was when we learned that your advisory group\u2014the strategic implementation group, is it\u2014was only in the early stages of discussing what these guidelines might look like. So, you're actually asking us to pass law when we have no control over how parents might be punished for smacking their children\u2014no control of the regard given to the relevance of force, the frequency of the offence, any prior conviction, any prior reporting, not even the views of the child in how they might be sentenced, or thresholds that would be appropriate for cautions and other out-of-court disposals; no guidance to the police on thresholds for arrest, let alone charging. And you argue that the rights of the child are what matter, and I agree with you here, but everybody, adult or child, has a right to natural justice and proportionate remedy or censure, and you are in no position to offer us any comfort on these matters at this stage. Now, CLAC recommended that any revised guidance be made available to AMs before Stage 3. I anticipate that that's unlikely, and I hope I'm wrong, but that's why Janet and I have tabled amendments 10 and 15, which prevent you bringing section 1 into force until that CPS guidance has been fully updated to take into account the change in the law and until pathways away from prosecution have been devised and agreed. That reflects our recommendation 4, this committee's recommendation, as well as CLAC's recommendation 1. It gives your strategic implementation board time to consider how it can get around the other fundamentally worrying issue of the effect of recording reports of apparent physical punishment, even if those reports ultimately prove unfounded. And you have not addressed these in your own amendments. I have to say, Minister, I think these points are so serious that I would have liked to have tabled amendments preventing you seeking Royal Assent for this Bill until the Assembly has seen drafts of the range of official guidance needed for the police and CPS. I'd have sought a Report Stage, if I could, so that we could consider that evidence. But I'm therefore asking you to support the amendments we have tabled, 10 and 15, so that we can bring some damage limitation to a process that you ultimately cannot control once this Bill has passed. Now, I know you've got the numbers to pass this Bill, whether you accept amendments or not, but I just hope you can see the danger in pushing forward with a Bill that changes a person's relationship with the criminal law when you have no legal control over the consequences of that, and you're inviting this Assembly to fall into the same trap. I therefore urge the Assembly to avoid this recklessness by supporting these two amendments.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Suzy. Are there other Members who wish to speak? No. Janet, do you want to speak?\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Yes, I wish to speak to amendments 14 and 16. Amendment 14, however, is consequential to amendment 16 passing. Amendment 16 prevents this from commencing until parenting support services have been established by the Welsh Government. As was clear during the committee's evidence sessions, present Welsh Government support programmes for parents have insufficient coverage. For example, the capacity and reach of the Healthy Child Wales programme came under question on its role in awareness raising, with health representatives acknowledging that universality had not been achieved, with 53.2 per cent of children in Wales reported as being contacted. Furthermore, existing parenting support is often only available as part of a targeted programme in specific areas, such as Flying Start, and even the children's commissioner noted that much more is needed to support parents to find alternatives to disciplining their children. Now, the Deputy Minister mentioned the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign as part of proposals on a wider package of support for children and their parents. However, the Deputy Minister was challenged on this fact, that this is an online campaign only, and could only respond that the mapping exercise she will undertake. Consequently, it should be remembered that this Bill will affect all parents. Therefore, the Deputy Minister needs to assure the committee and the public that universal support will be provided before the removal of the defence occurs.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Janet. Deputy Minister.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you, Chair. I've listened to what stakeholders and committees have said about the importance of ensuring sufficient time is available prior to the change in the law to abolish the defence of reasonable punishment during Stage 1. As a result, I have brought forward amendments in this group to provide certainty around the date for the change in the law. My amendment 7 will remove the power to commence this core provision of the Bill by Order of the Welsh Ministers and ensure that the defence of reasonable punishment is abolished at the end of a two-year period beginning the day after Royal Assent. That was done to give certainty on the length of time. Up to then, we'd always said 'up to two years'\u2014well, we're giving two years. This certainty will allow key partners, including the police, social services and the Crown Prosecution Service, to plan for changes to guidance, training and data-collection systems more effectively. It'll also provide a focus for our awareness-raising campaign. My amendment 8 in this group has the consequence of removing the power to make transitional provision, which is replaced by my amendments 3 and 6, and we discussed those in the previous group. I've listened to the arguments put forward by Suzy Davies and Janet Finch-Saunders for the amendments in this group that they have tabled. These amendments are all about making the commencement of the Bill conditional on something else happening, whether it's waiting for the revision of Crown Prosecution Service guidance, or the establishment of a pathway for diversion from the criminal justice system, or for the provision of parenting support services. And, really, I don't think that we should be going down that road. As I set out in my letter of response to the Stage 1 report from the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, we've got good working relations with the CPS through the strategic implementation group, and we work very closely with them. But the CPS are an independent body, as Suzy Davies has said in her contribution, not answerable to Welsh Ministers or this legislature, and it's not appropriate for a Minister or the National Assembly to seek to influence the CPS guidelines. We're discussing the issues with the CPS in the implementation group. And, in fact, I think that these amendments\u2014Suzy's amendments in particular\u2014wouldn't just seek to influence the CPS, but would actually give power to a non-devolved body on the way that we legislate in Wales. So, I don't think we should make it conditional on those guidelines being decided. I think you have to rely on the fact that we have got this very good relationship, very close working relationship. And I know they did give evidence to your committee, I believe, the CPS. And I think legislating to effectively give a non-devolved body a power to commence, or not, Assembly legislation would be highly unusual and would raise great uncertainty, I think, if we did go down that track, because I think this is very important Welsh legislation, which does have broad support across the Assembly. And I don't think we should allow non-devolved bodies to be the final arbiters of commencement of our legislation. So, I don't support those amendments. I think the CPS is entirely independent of Government, and must be entirely independent of Government, and will make its own decisions about how and when it will revise its guidance. In addition, you suggest we allow the UK Government to have a say in when Welsh legislation is commenced in an area that was specifically devolved to the Assembly. The test applied by the proposed amendments as to when commencement could lawfully occur is uncertain. If these amendments passed, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to judge when section 1 could be commenced. This contravenes what stakeholders and committees have asked for, and raises huge uncertainty, which potentially jeopardises the Bill. And I want to assure you again, not only do we have good working relations with the CPS, but also very good working relationships with the police, who are, of course, the other non-devolved body who have great involvement and interest in these issues. The work we do in these groups should not affect the timing of the Bill's commencement. In fact, it's the other way round. My amendment to provide a two-year period between Royal Assent and commencement means these groups can plan their work to a known timescale and deliver in good time before the law comes into force. And then, when it comes to parenting support, the committee knows that I've committed to reviewing the existing provision of parenting support, and work is already under way through the parenting expert group on this very issue. I have already said I will expand the age range of the 'Parenting: Give it Time' campaign, and I think\u2014. I know Janet Finch-Saunders has made the point that it is an online facility. It is very widely used. It is a very successful tool. But, of course, the universal services are also there. For example, the universal service of the health visitors is absolutely crucial, and that is a service that is for every child. And, of course, the health visitors welcome this legislation very strongly. And the expert group is considering what it'll recommend for the future, and it needs the time to be able to do that, to support the Bill as well as to support parenting more widely. So, as I said, I think these are important points that you have raised, but I don't think they are appropriate. So, I therefore urge the committee not to support amendments 9 and 10, nor 13, 14 and 15.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Suzy to reply to the debate.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Thank you very much, and thank you very much, Deputy Minister, as well. I'm disappointed that you haven't seen what's behind Janet Finch-Saunders's final amendment there, actually. Maybe it's something we'll raise again with you at Stage 3, or maybe in the conversations that we have between now and then. But I want to go back to amendments 10 and 15 that I've raised and your assertion that we're giving, or attempting to give, power to the CPS here. We are not. This amendment is drafted very specifically and in full knowledge that we have no legislative competence in this area. And this is why I go back to where my contribution to this started, and it's your choice to try and resolve the problem of\u2014or, sorry, to try and protect children's rights through the medium of a change to the criminal law rather than the many opportunities that were available to you through the civil law and over which you would have had complete competence. This Bill\u2014and, actually, you've said a couple of times in your response today that it's important that it's commenced on a certain date. My argument is: it shouldn't be commenced at all unless you are absolutely certain about how it is likely to affect the parents who will now be captured by the removal of the defence. And, while I claim no mischief on the part of the CPS or the police\u2014obviously I don't\u2014there is nothing you can do that would prevent the CPS, should they wish to do it, or indeed the police with their own guidelines, putting in place something that is wholly disproportionate to the offence that is now being released by the removal of a defence. And, because of that, I ask you to consider, or balance, actually, two important things here: one is the rights of the child, obviously at the forefront of your argument on this, which I would argue could be completely and safely protected through the use of civil law on this occasion; and, actually, the rights of the child again to have a good relationship with parents over whose future they will have no say\u2014or at least you cannot allow them to have any say in how those parents might be treated in terms of sentencing. The relationship between parents and children obviously is different in every family, but that's something you ought to protect in what you're trying to do here, and by leaving it open, as you say, to completely different\u2014sorry, undevolved, two undevolved authorities to make decisions about how that relationship could be affected deeply worries me. I know this isn't going to stop your Bill going forward, but I really want you to consider my arguments and how you might try and address them at Stage 3, because leaving, effectively, the delivery of your policy objectives to somebody over whom you have no control, despite your great relationship with them, should worry us all as a legislature. Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you, Suzy. Do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 9?\nSuzy Davies AM: Oh, because of the voting order\u2014. Yes, please.\nLynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 9 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 9, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 9 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 13?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 13 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 13, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 13 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 14?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 14 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 14, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 14 is not agreed. Deputy Minister, do you wish to move to a vote on amendment 7?\nJulie Morgan AM: I do.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: I move amendment 7 in the name of the Deputy Minister.\u00a0The question is that amendment 7 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 7, please show. All those against. So, there voted four in favour, two against. Amendment 7 is agreed. Suzy, do you wish to move amendment 10?\nSuzy Davies AM: Yes, please.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 10 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 10, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 10 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 15?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I do.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 15 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay, we'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 15, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 15 is not agreed. Janet, do you wish to move amendment 16?\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: I move.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: The question is that amendment 16 be agreed. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We have an objection, so I'll take a vote. All those in favour of amendment 16, please show. All those against. So, there voted two in favour, four against. Amendment 16 is not agreed. Deputy Minister, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 8?\nJulie Morgan AM: I do.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: I move amendment 8, then, in the name of the Minister. The question is that amendment 8 be agreed. Does any Member object? Amendment 8 is therefore agreed. Well, that has brought us to the end of our amendments, so can I thank the Deputy Minister and her officials for their attendance? As usual, you will be sent a transcript of the meeting to check for factual accuracy. This completes Stage 2 proceedings. Stage 3 begins tomorrow, and the relevant date of Stage 3 proceedings will be published in due course. Standing Orders make provision for the Deputy Minister to prepare a revised explanatory memorandum, taking account of the amendments agreed today. The revised memorandum will be laid at least five working days before Stage 3 proceedings. Thank you very much.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Thank you all very much.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, following our meeting on 2 October. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Health and Social Services updating the committee on the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' strategy. And paper to note 3 is a letter from myself to the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services regarding early childhood education and care, following the session that we held on 2 October. Are Members happy to note those? Thank you. Item 4, then, is for me to propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Thank you.\n"
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  {
    "id": 47,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting was about a computer based navigation system that will be used to conduct linguistic experiments on navigational terminology and intentionality, and it was simultaneously being recorded for another project. The navigational interface allows people to walk around a place and perform basic actions, like entering a building. Its goal is to understand what people intend to do based on granular linguistic features. The experimental set up is that people talk to a human assistant who controls the program in an attempt to complete a certain task. To study intentionality, the team will determine important linguistic features and use a Bayes model to see if they can predict the intention based on utterances.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad E: I guess .\nGrad A: OK , we 're on . So just make sure that th your wireless mike is on , if you 're wearing a wireless .\nGrad E: Check one . Check one .\nGrad A: And you should be able to see which one {disfmarker} which one you 're on by , uh , watching the little bars change .\nGrad B: So , which is my bar ? Mah ! Number one .\nGrad A: Yep .\nGrad E: Sibilance . Sibilance .\n",
      "Grad A: So , actually , if you guys wanna go ahead and read digits now , as long as you 've signed the consent form , that 's alright .\nGrad E: Are we supposed to read digits at the same time ?\nGrad A: No . No .\nGrad E: Oh , OK .\nGrad A: Each individually . We 're talking about doing all at the same time but I think cognitively that would be really difficult . {vocalsound} To try to read them while everyone else is .\nGrad E: Everyone would need extreme focus .\n",
      "Grad A: So , when you 're reading the digit strings , the first thing to do is just say which transcript you 're on .\nProfessor C: Other way . We m We may wind up with ver We {disfmarker} we may need versions of all this garbage .\nGrad B: For our stuff . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Um . So the first thing you 'd wanna do is just say which transcript you 're on .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: So . You can see the transcript ? There 's two large number strings on the digits ? So you would just read that one . And then you read each line with a small pause between the lines . And the pause is just so the person transcribing it can tell where one line ends and the other begins . And I 'll give {disfmarker} I 'll read the digit strings first , so can see how that goes . Um . Again , I 'm not sure how much I should talk about {pause} stuff before everyone 's here .\nProfessor C: Mmm . Well , we have one more coming .\n",
      "Grad A: OK . Well , why don't I go ahead and read digit strings and then we can go on from there .\nProfessor C: OK . Well , we can start doing it .\n",
      "Grad A: Thanks . So , uh , just also a note on wearing the microphones . All of you look like you 're doing it reasonably correctly , but you want it about two thumb widths away from your mouth , and then , at the corner . And that 's so that you minimize breath sounds , so that when you 're breathing , you don't breathe into the mike . Um . Yeah , that 's good . And uh {disfmarker} So , everyone needs to fill out , only once , the speaker form and the consent form . And the short form {disfmarker} I mean , you should read the consent form , but uh , the thing to notice is that we will give you an opportunity to edit a all the transcripts . So , if you say things and you don't want them to be released to the general public , which , these will be available at some point to anyone who wants them , uh , you 'll be given an opportunity by email , uh , to bleep out any portions you don't like . Um . On the speaker form just fill out as much of the information as you can . If you 're not exactly sure about the region , we 're not exactly sure either . So , don't worry too much about it . The {disfmarker} It 's just self rating . Um . And I think that 's about it . I mean , should I {disfmarker} Do you want me to talk at all about why we 're doing this and what this project is ?\n",
      "Professor C: Um , yeah .\nGrad A: or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor C: No . There was {disfmarker} there was {disfmarker} Let 's see . Oh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Does Nancy know that we 're meeting in here ?\nGrad B: I sent an email .\nProfessor C: She got an emai she was notified .\nGrad E: Oh yeah , she got an e Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: Whether she knows {vocalsound} is another question . Um . So are the people going to be identified by name ?\n",
      "Grad A: Well , what we 're gonna {disfmarker} we 'll anonymize it in the transcript . Um , but not in the audio .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad A: So the\nProfessor C: OK . So , then in terms of people worrying about , uh , excising things from the transcript , it 's unlikely . Since it {disfmarker} it does isn't attributed . Oh , I see , but the a but the {disfmarker} but the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Right , so if I said , \" Oh , hi Jerry , how are you ? \" , we 're not gonna go through and cancel out the \" Jerry \"s .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Sure .\nGrad A: Um , so we will go through and , in the speaker ID tags there 'll be , you know , M - one O seven , M - one O eight .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad A: Um , but uh ,\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad A: um , it w uh , I don't know a good way of doing it on the audio , and still have people who are doing discourse research be able to use the data .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . Mm - hmm . No , I {disfmarker} I wasn't complaining ,\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor C: I just wanted to understand .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad B: Well , we can make up aliases for each of us .\nGrad A: Yeah , I mean , whatever you wanna do is fine ,\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad A: but we find that {disfmarker} We want the meeting to be as natural as possible . So , we 're trying to do real meetings .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad A: And so we don't wanna have to do aliases\n",
      "Professor C: Right .\nGrad A: and we don't want people to be editing what they say .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad A: So I think that it 's better just as a pro post - process to edit out every time you bash Microsoft .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: You know ?\nProfessor C: Right . Um , OK . So why don't you tell us briefly\nGrad A: OK . So th\nProfessor C: your {disfmarker} give {disfmarker} give your e normal schpiel .\n",
      "Grad A: Um . So this is {disfmarker} The project is called Meeting Recorder and there are lots of different aspects of the project . Um . So my particular interest is in the PDA of the future . This is a mock - up of one . Yes , we do believe the PDA of the future will be made of wood . Um . {comment} The idea is that you 'd be able to put a PDA at the table at an impromptu meeting , and record it , and then be able to do querying and retrieval later on , on the meeting . So that 's my particular interest , is a portable device to do m uh , information retrieval on meetings . Other people are interested in other aspects of meetings . Um . So the first step on that , in any of these , is to collect some data . And so what we wanted is a room that 's instrumented with both the table top microphones , and these are very high quality pressure zone mikes , as well as the close talking mikes . What the close talk ng talking mikes gives us is some ground truth , gives us , um , high quality audio , um , especially for people who aren't interested in the acoustic parts of this corpus . So , for people who are more interested in language , we didn't want to penalize them by having only the far field mikes available . And then also , um , it 's a very , very hard task in terms of speech recognition . Um . And so , uh , on the far field mikes we can expect very low recognition results . So we wanted the near field mikes to at least isolate the difference between the two . So that 's why we 're recording in parallel with the close talking and the far field at the same time . And then , all these channels are recorded simultaneously and framed synchronously so that you can also do things like , um , beam - forming on all the microphones and do research like that . Our intention is to release this data to the public , um , probably through f through a body like the LDC . And , uh , just make it as a generally available corpus . Um . {vocalsound} There 's other work going on in meeting recording . So , we 're {disfmarker} we 're working with SRI , with UW , Um . NIST has started an effort which will include video . We 're not including video , obviously . And uh {disfmarker} and then also , um , a small amount of assistance from IBM . Is also involved . Um . Oh , and the digit strings , this is just a more constrained task . Um . So because the general environment is so challenging , we decided to {disfmarker} to do at least one set of digit strings to give ourselves something easier . And it 's exactly the same digit strings as in TI - digits , which is a common connected digits corpus . So we 'll have some , um , comparison to be able to be made .\n",
      "Professor C: OK .\nGrad A: Anything else ?\nProfessor C: No .\nGrad A: OK , so when the l last person comes in , just have them wear a wireless . It should be on already . Um . Either one of those . And uh , read the digit strings and {disfmarker} and fill out the forms . So , the most important form is the consent form , so just be s be sure everyone signs that , if they consent .\nGrad B: I 'm sure it 's pretty usual for meetings that people come late ,\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad B: so you will have to leave what you set .\n",
      "Grad A: Right . And uh , just give me a call , which , my number 's up there when your meeting is over .\nProfessor C: Yep .\nGrad A: And {disfmarker} I 'm going to leave the mike here but it 's n {nonvocalsound} Uh , but I 'm not gonna be on so don't have them use this one . It 'll just be sitting here .\nGrad B: Input ? Yeah . There we go .\nProfessor C: By the way , Adam , we will be using the , uh , screen as well .\nGrad B: Yep .\n",
      "Professor C: So , you know . Wow ! Organization . So you guys who got email about this {pause} oh f uh , Friday or something about what we 're up to .\nGrad E: No .\nGrad F: No .\nGrad B: I got it .\nGrad E: What was the nature of the email ?\nProfessor C: Oh , this was about {pause} um , inferring intentions from features in context , and the words , like \" s go to see \" , or \" visit \" , or some\nGrad B: Wel - we I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: You didn't get it ?\nGrad E: I don't think I did .\nProfessor C: I guess these g have got better filters . Cuz I sent it to everybody . You just blew it off .\nGrad E: Ah .\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: It 's really simple though . So this is the idea . Um . We could pursue , um , if we thought it 's {disfmarker} it 's worth it but , uh , I think we {disfmarker} we will agree on that , um , to come up with a {disfmarker} with a sort of very , very first crude prototype , and do some implementation work , and do some {disfmarker} some research , and some modeling . So the idea is if you want to go somewhere , um , and focus on that object down {disfmarker} Oh , I can actually walk with this . This is nice . down here . That 's the Powder - Tower . Now , um , {vocalsound} we found in our , uh , data and from experiments , that there 's three things you can do . Um , you can walk this way , and come really , really close to it . And touch it . But you cannot enter or do anything else . Unless you 're interested in rock climbing , it won't do you no good standing there . It 's just a dark alley . But you can touch it . If you want to actually go up or into the tower , you have to go this way , and then through some buildings and up some stairs and so forth . If you actually want to see the tower , and that 's what actually most people want to do , is just have a good look of it , take a picture for the family , {comment} you have to go this way , and go up here . And there you have a vre really view {disfmarker} It exploded , the {disfmarker} during the Thirty years - war . Really uh , interesting sight . And um , these uh {disfmarker} these lines are , um , paths ,\n",
      "Grad E: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad B: or so That 's ab er , i the street network of our geographic information system . And you can tell that we deliberately cut out this part . Because otherwise we couldn't get our GIS system to take {disfmarker} to lead people this way . It would always use the closest point to the object , and then the tourists would be faced , you know , in front of a wall , but it would do them absolutely no good . So , {vocalsound} what we found interesting is , first of all , intentions differ . Maybe you want to enter a building . Maybe you want to see it , take a picture of it . Or maybe you actually want to come as close as possible to the building . For whatever reason that may be .\n",
      "Grad E: What 's it {disfmarker} what 's it made out of ?\nGrad B: Um , r red limestone .\nGrad E: So maybe you would wanna touch it .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah , maybe you would want to touch it . Um . Okay , I {disfmarker} This , um {disfmarker} These intentions , we {disfmarker} w w we could , if we want to , call it the {disfmarker} the Vista mode , where we just want to {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} s get the overview or look at it , the Enter mode , and the , well , Tango mode . I always come up with {disfmarker} with silly names . So this \" Tango \" means , literally translated , \" to touch \" . So {disfmarker} But sometimes the {disfmarker} the Tango mode is really relevant in the {disfmarker} in the sense that , um , if you want to , uh {disfmarker} If you don't have the intention of entering your building , but you know that something is really close to it , and you just want to approach it , or get to that building . Consider , for example , the Post Office in Chicago , a building so large that it has its own zip code . So the entrance could be miles away from the closest point . So sometimes it m m m makes sense maybe to d to distinguish there . So , um , I 've looked , uh , through twenty some {disfmarker} Uh , I didn't look through all the data . um , and there {disfmarker} there 's uh , a lot more different ways in people {disfmarker} uh , the ways people phrase how to g get {disfmarker} if they want to get to a certain place . And sometimes here it 's b it 's a little bit more obvious {disfmarker} Um . {vocalsound} Maybe I should go back a couple of steps and go through the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: No , OK come in , sit down . If you grab yourself a microphone .\nGrad B: You need to sign some stuff and read some digits .\nProfessor C: Well , you can sign afterwards .\nGrad B: O or later .\nGrad E: You have to al also have to read some digits .\nProfessor C: Afterwards .\nGrad D: OK . {comment} OK . Afterwards is fine .\nGrad B: They are uncomfortable . Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Really small ? OK . I see . OK .\nGrad B: Yep .\nGrad D: Thank you .\nGrad B: OK , but that was our idea .\n",
      "Professor C: And it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it it also has to be switched on , Nance .\nGrad B: Is {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}\nGrad E: No , that one 's already on , I thought he said .\nProfessor C: It 's on ? OK , good .\nGrad D: OK . It 's on .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: OK . That was the idea . Um , people , when they w when they want to go to a building , sometimes they just want to look at it . Sometimes they want to enter it . And sometimes they want to get really close to it . That 's something we found . It 's just a truism . And the places where you will lead them for these intentions are sometimes ex in incredibly different . I {disfmarker} I gave an example where the point where you end up if you want to look at it is completely different from where {disfmarker} if you want to enter it . So , this is sort of how people may , uh {disfmarker} may phrase those requests to a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a mock - up system at least that 's the way they did it . And we get tons of {disfmarker} of these \" how do I get to \" , \" I want to go to \" , but also , \" give me directions to \" , and \" I would like to see \" . And um , what we can sort of do , if we look closer a closer at the {disfmarker} the data {disfmarker} That was the wrong one . um , we can look at some factors that may make a difference . First of all , very important , and um , that {disfmarker} I 've completely forgot that when we talked . This is of course a crucial factor , \" what type of object is it ? \" So , some buildings you just don't want to take pictures of . Or very rarely . But you usually want to enter them . Some objects are more picturesque , and you {disfmarker} more f more highly photographed . Then of course the {disfmarker} the actual phrases may give us some idea of what the person wants . Um . Sometimes I found in the {disfmarker} Uh , looking at the data , in a superficial way , I found some s sort of modifiers that {disfmarker} that m may also give us a hint , um , \" I 'm trying to get to \" Nuh ? \" I need to get to \" . Sort of hints to the fact that you 're not really sightseeing and {disfmarker} and just f there for pleasure and so forth and so on . And this leads us straight to the context which also should be considered . That whatever it is you 're doing at the moment may also inter influence the interpretation of {disfmarker} of a phrase . So , this is , uh , really uh , uh , uh {disfmarker} My suggestion is really simple . We start with , um {disfmarker} Now , Let me , uh , say one more thing . What we do know , is that the parser we use in the SmartKom system will never differentiate between any of these . So , basically all of these things will result in the same XML M - three - L structure . Sort of action \" go \" , and then an object .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah ? and a source . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's way too crude to d capture those differences in intentions . So , I thought , \" Mmm ! Maybe for a deep understanding task , that 's a nice sort of playground or first little thing . \" Where we can start it and n sort of look {disfmarker} \" OK , we need , we gonna get those M - three - L structures . The crude , undifferentiated parse . Interpreted input . We may need additional part of speech , or maybe just some information on the verb , and modifiers , auxiliaries . We 'll see . And I will try to {disfmarker} to sort of come up with a list of factors that we need to get out of there , and maybe we want to get a g switch for the context . So this is not something which we can actually monitor , {vocalsound} now , but just is something we can set . And then you can all imagine sort of a {disfmarker} a constrained satisfaction program , depending on {disfmarker} on what , um , comes out . We want to have an {disfmarker} a structure resulting if we feed it through a belief - net or {disfmarker} or something along those lines . We 'd get an inferred intention , we {disfmarker} we produce a structure that differentiates between the Vista , the Enter , and the , um , Tango mode . Which I think we maybe want to ignore . But . That 's my idea . It 's up for discussion . We can change all of it , any bit of it . Throw it all away .\n",
      "Grad F: Now @ @ this email that you sent , actually .\nProfessor C: What ?\nGrad F: Now I remember the email .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad E: Huh . Still , I have no recollection whatsoever of the email . I 'll have to go back and check .\n",
      "Professor C: Not important . So , what is important is that we understand what the proposed task is . And , the {disfmarker} the i uh , Robert and I talked about this some on Friday . And we think it 's well - formed . So we think it 's a well - formed , uh , starter task for this , uh , deeper understanding in the tourist domain .\nGrad F: So , where exactly is the , uh , deeper understanding being done ? Like I mean , s is it before the Bayes - net ? Is it , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Well , it 's the {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's always all of it . So , in general it 's always going to be , the answer is , everywhere . Uh , so the notion is that , uh , this isn't real deep . But it 's deep enough that you can distinguish between these th three quite different kinds of , uh , going to see some tourist thing . And , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's the quote \" deep \" that we 're trying to get at . And , Robert 's point is that the current front - end doesn't give you any way to {disfmarker} Not only doesn't it do it , but it also doesn't give you enough information to do it . It isn't like , if you just took what the front - end gives you , and used some clever inference algorithm on it , you would be able to figure out which of these is going on . So , uh , and this is {disfmarker} Bu - I in general it 's gonna be true of any kind of deep understanding , there 's gonna be contextual things , there 're gonna be linguistic things , there 're gonna be discourse things , and they gotta be combined . And , my idea on how to combine them is with a belief - net , although it may turn out that t some totally different thing is gonna work better . Um , the idea would be that {vocalsound} you , uh , take your {disfmarker} You 're editing your slide ?\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah . As i a sort of , as I get ideas , uh w uh .\nProfessor C: Oh .\nGrad B: So , discourse {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I thought about that . Of course that needs to sort of go in there .\nProfessor C: Oh . I 'm sorry . OK . So . This is minutes {disfmarker} taking minutes as we go , in his {disfmarker} in his own way .\nGrad B: Yep .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , but the p the {disfmarker} Anyway . So the thing is , {vocalsound} i uh , d naively speaking , you 've {disfmarker} you 've got a {disfmarker} for this little task , a belief - net , which is going to have as output , the conditional pr probability of one of three things , that the person wants to {disfmarker} uh , to View it , to Enter it , or to Tango with it . Um . So that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the output of the belief - net is pretty well formed . And , then the inputs are going to be these kinds of things . And , then the question is {disfmarker} there are two questions {disfmarker} is , uh , one , where do you get this i {comment} information from , and two , what 's the structure of the belief - net ? So what are the conditional probabilities of this , that , and the other , given these things ? And you probably need intermediate nodes . I {disfmarker} we don't know what they are yet . So it may well be that , uh , for example , that , uh , knowing whether {disfmarker} Oh , another thing you want is some information abou I think , about the time of day . Now , they may wanna call that part of context .\n",
      "Grad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: But the time of day matters a lot . And , if things are obviously closed , then , you {disfmarker}\nGrad B: People won't want to enter it .\nProfessor C: Pe - people don't wanna enter them . And , if it 's not obvious , you may want to actually uh , point out to people that it 's closed {disfmarker} you know , what they 're g going to is closed and they don't have the option of entering it .\nGrad B: s b\n",
      "Professor C: So another thing that can come up , and will come up as soon as you get serious about this is , that another option of course is to have a {disfmarker} more of a dialogue . So if someone says something you could ask them .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . And {disfmarker} Now , one thing you could do is always ask them , but that 's boring . And it also w it also be a pain for the person using it . So one thing you could do is build a little system that , said , \" whenever you got a question like that I 've got one of three answers . Ask them which one you want . \" OK . But that 's , um , not what we 're gonna do .\nGrad B: But maybe that 's a false state of the system , that it 's too close to call .\n",
      "Professor C: Oh yeah . You want the {disfmarker} you want the ability to a You want the ability to ask , but what you don't wanna do is onl build a system that always asks every time , and i That 's not getting at the scientific problem ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and it 's {disfmarker} In general you 're {disfmarker} you know , it 's gonna be much more complex than that . a This is purposely a really simple case .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So , uh {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: I have one more point to {disfmarker} to Bhaskara 's question . Um , I think also the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the deep understanding part of it is {disfmarker} is going to be in there to the extent that we um , want it in terms of our modeling . We can start , you know , basic from human beings , model that , its motions , going , walking , seeing , we can mem model all of that and then compose whatever inferences o we make out of these really conceptual primitives . That will be extremely deep in the {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in my understanding .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . S so {disfmarker} so the way that might come up , if you wanna {disfmarker} Suppose you wanted to do that , you might say , \" Um , as an intermediate step in your belief - net , is there a Source - Path - Goal schema involved ? \" OK ? And if so , uh , is there a focus on the goal ? Or is there a focus on the path ? or something . And that could be , uh , one of the conditiona you know , th the {disfmarker} In some piece of the belief - net , that could be the {disfmarker} the appropriate thing to enter .\n",
      "Grad F: So , where would we extract that information from ? From the M - three - L ?\nProfessor C: No . No . See , the M - three - L is not gonna give th What he was saying is , the M - three - L does not have any of that . All it has is some really crude stuff saying , \" A person wants to go to a place . \"\nGrad F: Right .\nGrad E: The M - three - L is the old SmartKom output ?\nProfessor C: Right . M - three well , M - three - L itself refers to Multimedia Mark - up Language .\n",
      "Grad E: OK . It 's just a language . Right , yeah .\nProfessor C: So we have th w we we we have to have a better w way of referring to {disfmarker}\nGrad B: The parser output ?\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: \" Analyzed speech \" I think it 's what they call it ,\nProfessor C: Yeah . The {disfmarker} Well , OK .\nGrad B: really , oder {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad B: o th No , actually , intention lattices is what we 're gonna get .\n",
      "Professor C: Is - i but they c they call it intention lattice , but tha\nGrad B: In - in a intention lattice k Hypothesis .\nProfessor C: Anyway .\nGrad B: They call it intention hypotheses .\nProfessor C: Right . So , th they 're gonna give us some cr uh {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} We can assume that y you get this crude information . About intention , and that 's all they 're going to provide . And they don't give you the kind of object , they don't give you any discourse history , if you want to keep that you have to keep it somewhere else .\n",
      "Grad B: Well , they keep it . We have to request it .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad B: Nuh ? But it 's not in there .\nProfessor C: Well , they {disfmarker} they kee they keep it by their lights .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nProfessor C: It may {disfmarker} it may or may not be what {disfmarker} what we want .\nGrad B: Yeah , or i\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: So , if someone says , \" I wanna touch the side of the Powder - Tower \" , that would {disfmarker} basically , we need to pop up Tango mode and the {disfmarker} and the directions ?\nProfessor C: If i if {disfmarker} Yeah , if it got as simple as that , yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: But it wouldn't .\nGrad E: OK . But that doesn't necessarily {disfmarker} But we 'd have to infer a Source - Path - Goal to some degree for touching the side , right ?\n",
      "Grad B: Well {disfmarker} Uh , th the there is a p a point there if I understand you . Correct ? Um , because um , sometimes people just say things {disfmarker} This you find very often . \" Where is the city hall ? \" And this do they don't wanna sh see it on a map , or they don't wanna know it 's five hundred yards away from you , or that it 's to the {disfmarker} your north . They wanna go there . That 's what they say , is , \" Where is it ? \" . Where is that damn thing ?\n",
      "Grad E: And the parser would output {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Well , that 's a {disfmarker} a question mark . sh A lot of parsers , um , just , uh {disfmarker} That 's way beyond their scope , is {disfmarker} of interpreting that . You know ? But um , still outcome w the outcome will be some form of structure , with the town hall and maybe saying it 's a WH focus on the town hall . But to interpret it ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: you know ? somebody else has to do that job later .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: I 'm just trying to figure out what the SmartKom system would output , depending on these things .\nGrad B: Um , it will probably tell you how far away it is , at least that 's {disfmarker} That 's even what Deep Map does . It tells you how far away it is , and {disfmarker} and shows it to you on a map . Because i we can not differentiate , at the moment , between , you know , the intention of wanting to go there or the intention of just know wanting to know where {disfmarker} where it is .\n",
      "Grad D: People no might not be able to infer that either , right ? Like the fact {disfmarker} Like , I could imagine if someone came up to me and asked , \" Where 's the city hall ? \" , I might say , g ar \" Are you trying to get there ? \" Because how I describe um , t its location {disfmarker} uh , p probably depend on whether I think I should give them , you know , directions now , or say , you know , whatever , \" It 's half a mile away \" or something like that .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .  It 's a granularity factor ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: because where people ask you , \" Where is New York ? \" , you will tell them it 's on the East Coast .\nGrad D: Uh - huh . Yeah . Exactly . Right . Right .\nGrad B: Y y eh {disfmarker} you won't tell them how to get there , ft you know , take that bus to the airport and blah - blah - blah .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad B: But if it 's the post office , you will tell them how to get there .\nGrad D: Right . Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: So th They have done some interesting experiments on that in Hamburg as well .\n",
      "Grad D: Right .\nGrad B: So .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor C: But {disfmarker} i Go {disfmarker} go back to the {disfmarker} the uh , th\nGrad B: So I w this is {disfmarker} \" onto \" is {disfmarker} is knowledge about buildings ,\nProfessor C: Yeah , that slide .\nGrad B: their opening times , and then t coupled with time of day , um , this should {disfmarker} You know .\n",
      "Grad D: So that context was like , um , their presumed purpose context , i like business or travel , as well as the utterance context , like , \" I 'm now standing at this place at this time \" .\nProfessor C: Yeah , well I think we ought to d a As we have all along , d We {disfmarker} we 've been distu distinguishing between situational context , which is what you have as context , and discourse context ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: which you have as DH ,\nGrad B: Nuh .\nProfessor C: I don't know what the H means .\n",
      "Grad B: History . Discourse history . Yeah .\nProfessor C: OK . Whatever . So we can work out terminology later .\nGrad B: Yep .\n",
      "Professor C: So , they 're {disfmarker} they 're quite distinct . I mean , you need them both , but they 're quite distinct . And , so what we were talking about doing , a a as a first shot , is not doing any of the linguistics . Except to find out what seems to be {pause} useful . So , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the reason the belief - net is in blue , is the notion would be {disfmarker} Uh , this may be a bad dis bad idea , but the idea is to take as a first goal , see if we could actually build a belief - net that would make this three way distinction uh , in a plausible way , given these {disfmarker} We have all these transcripts and we 're able to , by hand , extract the features to put in the belief - net . Saying , \" Aha ! here 're the things which , if you get them out of {disfmarker} out of the language and discourse , and put them into the belief - net , it would tell you which of these three uh , intentions is most likely . \" And if {disfmarker} to actually do that , build it , um {disfmarker} you know , run it {disfmarker} y y run it on the data where you hand - transcribe the parameters . And see how that goes . If that goes well , then we can start worrying about how we would extract them . So {disfmarker} where would you get this information ? And , expand it to {disfmarker} to other things like this . But if we can't do that , then we 're in trouble . I mean th th i i if you can't do this task , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: We need a different , uh , engine . Machine , I mean .\nProfessor C: Uh , uh , yeah , or something . Well it {disfmarker} i I if it {disfmarker} if it 's the belief - nets , we we 'll switch to you know , logic or some terrible thing , but I don't think that 's gonna be the case . I think that , uh , if we can get the information , a belief - net is a perfectly good way of doing the inferential combination of it . The real issue is , do what are the factors involved in determining this ? And I don't know .\n",
      "Grad B: Hmm . But , only w\nProfessor C: Hold on a s Hold on a second .\nGrad B: Muh .\nProfessor C: So , I know . Uh , uh , is it clear what 's going on here ?\nGrad F: Yep .\n",
      "Grad D: Um , I missed the beginning , but , um I guess {disfmarker} could you back to the slide , the previous one ? So , is it that it 's , um {disfmarker} These are all factors that uh , a These are the ones that you said that we are going to ignore now ? or that we want to {vocalsound} take into account ? You were saying n\nProfessor C: Take them into account . But {disfmarker} but you don't worry about {disfmarker} h\nGrad D: Take the {disfmarker} the linguistic factors too . Oh , how to extract these features .\n",
      "Professor C: how to extract them . So , f let 's find out which ones we need first ,\nGrad D: OK . Got it .\nProfessor C: and {disfmarker}\nGrad D: OK . And {disfmarker} and it 's clear from the data , um , like , sorta the correct answer in each case .\nProfessor C: No .\nGrad D: But l\nGrad B: No . But {disfmarker}\nGrad D: OK .\nProfessor C: Let 's go back to th Let 's go back to the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the slide of data .\n",
      "Grad D: That 's {disfmarker} that 's the thing I 'm curious ab\nGrad B: Um {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Like do we know from the data wh which {disfmarker} OK . So {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Not from that data . But , um , since we are designing a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} an , compared to this , even bigger data collection effort , {comment} um , we will definitely take care to put it in there ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: in some shape , way , form over the other ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad B: to see whether we can , then , get sort of empirically validated data .\nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "Grad B: Um , from this , we can sometimes , you know {disfmarker} an and that 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} but that {disfmarker} isn't that what we need for a belief - net anyhow ? is sort of {disfmarker} s sometimes when people want to just see it , they phrase it more like this ? But it doesn't exclude anybody from phrasing it totally differently , even if they still {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Right .\nGrad B: you know ?\nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "Grad B: But then other factors may come into play that change the outcome of their belief - net . So , um , this is exactly what {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad B: Because y you can never be sure . And I 'm sure even i the most , sort of , deliberate data collection experiment will never give you data that say , \" Well , if it 's phrased like that , the intention is this . \"\nGrad D: Sure .\nGrad B: You know , because then , uh , you {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: u u I mean , the only way you could get that is if you were to give th the x subjects a task . Right ? Where you have {disfmarker} where your , uh , current goal is to {disfmarker}\nGrad B: We Yeah ! That 's what we 're doing .\nGrad D: \nGrad B: But {disfmarker} but we will still get the phrasing all over the place .\nGrad D: So that 's what you want ? OK . So you will know .\nGrad B: I 'm sure that , you know {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm . The {disfmarker} No , that 's fine . I guess , it 's just knowing the intention from the experimental subject .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: From that task , yeah . So , uh , I think you all know this , but we are going to actually use this little room\nGrad D: \n",
      "Professor C: and start recording subjects probably within a month or something . So , this is not any {disfmarker} lo any of you guys ' worry , except that we may want to push that effort to get information we need . So our job {vocalsound} is to figure out how to solve these problems . If it turns out that we need data of a certain sort , then the sort of data collection branch can be , uh , asked to do that . And one of the reasons why we 're recording the meeting for these guys is cuz we want their help when we d we start doing uh , recording of subjects . So , yeah {disfmarker} y you 're absolutely right , though . No , you {disfmarker} you will not have , and there it is , and , uh {disfmarker} But you know , y y the , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: And I think the other concern that has come up before , too , is if it 's {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} I don't know if this was collected {disfmarker} what situation this data was collected in . Was it {disfmarker} is it the one that you showed in your talk ? Like people {disfmarker}\nGrad B: No , no . No .\nGrad D: But OK . So was this , like , someone actually mobile , like {disfmarker} s using a device ?\n",
      "Grad B: Uh , N no , no not {disfmarker} i it was mobile but not {disfmarker} not with a w a real wizard system . So there were never answers .\n",
      "Grad D: Uh - huh . OK . OK . But , is it {disfmarker} I guess I don't know {disfmarker} The situation of {disfmarker} of collecting th the data of , like {disfmarker} Here you could imagine them being {disfmarker} walking around the city . as like one situation . And then you have all sorts of other c situational context factors that would influence w how to interpret , like you said , the scope and things like that .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad D: If they 're doing it in a {disfmarker} you know , \" I 'm sitting here with a map and asking questions \" , I {disfmarker} I would imagine that the data would be really different . Um , so it 's just {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah . But {disfmarker} It was never th th the goal of that data collection to {disfmarker} to serve for sat for such a purpose . So that 's why for example the tasks were not differentiated by intentionality ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: there was n there was no label ,\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: you know , intention A , intention B , intention C .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad B: Or task A , B , C . Um I 'm sure we can produce some if we need it , um , that {disfmarker} that will help us along those lines .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: But , you know , you gotta leave something for other people to model . So , to {disfmarker} Finding out what , you know , situational con what the contextual factors of the situation really are , you know is an interesting s interesting thing .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: u u Sort of I 'm , at the moment , curious and I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} s w want to approach it from the end where we can s sort of start with this toy system that we can play around with ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: so that we get a clearer notion of what input we need for that ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: what suffices and what doesn't . And then we can start worrying about where to get this input , what {disfmarker} what do we need , you know {disfmarker} Ultimately once we are all experts in changing that parser , for example , maybe , there 's just a couple three things we need to do and then we get more whatever , part of speech and more construction - type - like stuff out of it .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Hmm .\nGrad B: It 's a m pragmatic approach , uh , at the moment .\n",
      "Grad E: How exactly does the data collection work ? Do they have a map , and then you give them a scenario of some sort ?\n",
      "Grad B: OK . Imagine you 're the {disfmarker} the subject . You 're gonna be in here , and somebody {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and you see , uh , either th the three - D model , or uh , a QuickTime animation of standing u in a square in Heidelberg . So you actually see that . Um . The uh , um , first thing is you have to read a text about Heidelberg . So , just off a textbook , uh , tourist guide , to familiarize , uh , yourself with that sort of odd - sounding German street names , like Fischergasse and so forth . So that 's part one . Part two is , you 're told that this huge new , wonderful computer system exists , that can y tell you everything you want to know , and it understands you completely . And so you 're gonna pick up that phone , dial a number , and you get a certain amount of tasks that you have to solve . First you have to know {disfmarker} find out how to get to that place , maybe with the intention of buying stamps in there . Maybe {disfmarker} So , the next task is to get to a certain place and take a picture for your grandchild . The third one is to get information on the history of an object . The fourth one {disfmarker} And then the g system breaks down . It crashes , And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: a At the third ? Right then ?\nGrad B: After the third task .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: And then {disfmarker} Or after the fourth . Some find {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} Forget that for now . And then , a human operator comes on , and {disfmarker} and exp apologizes that the system has crashed , but , you know , urges you to continue , you know ? now with a human operator . And so , you have basically the same tasks again , just with different objects , and you go through it again , and that was it . Oh , and one {disfmarker} one little bit {disfmarker} w And uh , the computer you are {disfmarker} you are being told the computer system knows exactly where you are , via GPS . When the human operator comes on , um , that person does not know . So the GPS is crashed as well . So the person first has to ask you \" Where are you ? \" . And so you have to do some {disfmarker} s tell the person sort of where you are , depending on what you see there . Um , this is a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a bit that I d I don't think we {disfmarker} Did we discuss that bit ? Uh , I just sort of squeezed that in now . But it 's something , uh , that would provide some very interesting data for some people I know . So .\n",
      "Grad D: So , in the display you can {disfmarker} Oh , you said that you cou you might have a display that shows , like , the {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah . a Additionally , y you have a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a sort of a map type display .\nGrad D: a w your perspective ? sort of ?\nGrad B: Uh , two - D .\nGrad D: And so , as you {disfmarker}\nGrad B: n\nGrad D: Oh , two - D . OK .\nGrad B: Two - D .\n",
      "Grad D: So as you move through it that 's - they just track it on the {disfmarker} for themselves\nGrad B: Yeah . b y You don't {disfmarker} That 's {disfmarker}\nGrad D: there .\nGrad B: I don't know . I but y I don't think you really move , sort of .\nGrad D: OK . So\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah ? I mean that would be an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} an enormous technical effort , unless we would {disfmarker} We can show it walks to , you know . We can have movies of walking , you walking through {disfmarker} through Heidelberg , and u ultimately arriving there .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Maybe we wanna do that . Yeah .\nGrad D: Uh , I was just trying to figure out how {disfmarker} how ambitious the system is .\n",
      "Grad B: The map was sort of intended to {disfmarker} You want to go to that place . You know , and it 's sort of there .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: And you see the label of the name {disfmarker} So we get those names , pronunciation stuff , and so forth , and we can change that .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . So your tasks don't require you to {disfmarker} I mean , uh {disfmarker} yo you 're told {disfmarker} So when your task is , I don't know , \" Go buy stamps \" or something like that ? So , do you have to respond ? or does your {disfmarker} Uh , what are you ste what are you supposed to be telling the system ? Like , w what you 're doing now ? or {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Well , we 'll see what people do .\n",
      "Grad D: There 's no {disfmarker} OK , so it 's just like , \" Let 's figure out what they would say under the circumstances \" .\nGrad B: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and we will record both sides . I mean , we will record the Wi - the Wizard {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad B: I mean , in both cases it 's gonna be a human , in the computer , and in the operator case .\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad B: And we will re there will be some dialogue , you know ? So , you first have to do this , and that ,\n",
      "Grad D: Yep .\nGrad B: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: see wh what they say . We can ins instruct the , uh , wizard in how expressive and talkative he should be . But um , maybe the {disfmarker} maybe what you 're suggesting {disfmarker} Is what you 're suggesting that it might be too poor , the data , if we sort of limit it to this ping pong one t uh , task results in a question and then there 's an answer and that 's the end of the task ? You wanna m have it more {disfmarker} more steps , sort of ?\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I don't know how much direction is given to the subject about what their interaction {disfmarker} I mean , th they 're unfamiliar w with interacting with the system .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: All they know is it 's this great system that could do s stuff .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Oh yeah , but {disfmarker} to some extent this is a different discussion .\nGrad D: Right ? So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: OK ? So . Uh , we {disfmarker} we have to have this discussion of th the experiment , and the data collection , and all that sorta stuff\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: and we do have , um , a student who is a candidate for wizard . Uh , she 's gonna get in touch with me . It 's a student of Eve 's . FEY , Fey ? Spelled FEY . Do you {disfmarker} do you {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Oh , Fey Parrill .\nProfessor C: You know her ?\nGrad D: Yeah . Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . Sh - Is sh\nGrad D: She started taking the class last year and then didn't {disfmarker} um , you know , didn't continue . I g She 's a g\nProfessor C: She 's graduated .\nGrad D: Is she an undergradua She is a graduate , OK .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yeah , I m I know her very , very briefly . I know she was inter you know , interested in aspect and stuff like that .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . So , anyway , she 's looking for some more part time work w while she 's waiting actually for graduate school . And she 'll be in touch . So we may have someone , uh , to do this , and she 's got you know , some background in {disfmarker} in all this stuff . And is a linguist st and , so So . {vocalsound} That 's {disfmarker} So , Nancy , we 'll have an At some point we 'll have another discussion on exactly wha t t you know , how that 's gonna go .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: And um , Jane , but also , uh , Liz have offered to help us do this , uh , data collection and design and stuff .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mmm .\nProfessor C: So , when we get to that we 'll have some people doing it that know what they 're doing .\n",
      "Grad D: OK . I guess the reason I was asking about the sort of the de the details of this kind of thing is that , um , it 's one thing to collect data for , I don't know , speech recognition or various other tasks that have pretty c clear correct answers , but with intention {vocalsound} um , obviously , as you point out , there 's a lot of di other factors and {disfmarker} I 'm not really sure , um , how {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} e the question of how to make it a t appropriate toy version of that {disfmarker} Um , it 's ju it 's just hard . So , I mean , obviously it 's a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , uh , actually I guess that was my question . Is the intention implicit in the scenario that 's given ? Like , do the {disfmarker}\nGrad D: It is , if they have these tasks that they 're supposed to {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah , I just wasn't sure to what level of detail the task was .\nGrad D: to {disfmarker} to give {disfmarker} Yeah ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: uh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: n No one is , at the moment .\nGrad D: Right . Right .\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: So , we that 's part of what we 'll have to figure out .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor C: But , uh ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: the {disfmarker} The problem that I was tr gonna try to focus on today was , let 's suppose by magic you could collect dialogues in which , one way or the other , you were able to , uh , figure out both the intention , and set the context , and know what language was used . So let 's suppose that we can get that kind of data . Um . The issue is , can we find a way to , basically , featurize it so that we get some discrete number of features so that , uh , when we know the values to all those features , or as many as possible , we can w come up with the best estimate of which of the , in this case three little intentions , are most likely .\n",
      "Grad D: w What are the t three intentions ? Is it to go there , to see it , and {disfmarker}\nGrad B: To come as close as possible to it .\nProfessor C: Th - the terminology we 're using is to {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yeah , it 's @ @ .\nProfessor C: Go back . To v\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: to View it . OK ? To Enter it . Now those {disfmarker} It seems to me those are cl you c you have no trouble with those being distinct . \" Take a picture of it \" you {disfmarker} you might well want to be a really rather different place than entering it .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: And , for an object that 's at all big , uh , sort of getting to the nearest part of it uh , could be quite different than either of those .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: Just sort of {disfmarker}\nGrad D: OK , so now I understand the referent of Tango mode . I didn't get that before .\nGrad E: See , I would have thought it was more of a waltz .\nGrad B: S To \" Waltz \" it ?\nGrad D: Yeah , like , how close are you gonna be ?\nProfessor C: Well .\nGrad D: Like , {vocalsound} Tango 's really close .\nGrad E: Yeah , cuz a tango {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor C: Well , anyway . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: All these So , like , the question is how what features can {disfmarker} like , do you wanna try to extract from , say , the parse or whatever ?\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: Like , the presence of a word or the presence of a certain uh , stem , or {disfmarker} certain construction or whatever .\n",
      "Professor C: Right . Is there a construction , or the kind of object , or w uh , anything else that 's in the si It 's either in the {disfmarker} in the s the discourse itself or in the context . So if it turns out that , whatever it is , you want to know whether the person 's uh , a tourist or not , OK ? that becomes a feature . Now , how you determine that is another issue . But fo for the current problem , it would just be , \" OK , if you can be sure that it 's a tourist , versus a businessman , versus a native , \" or something , uh , that would give you a lot of discriminatory power and then just have a little section in your belief - net that said , \" pppt ! \" Though sin f in the short run , you 'd set them ,\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and see ho how it worked , and then in the longer run , you would figure out how you could derive them . From previous discourse or w any anything else you knew .\nGrad F: Right . So , how should {disfmarker} What 's the uh , plan ? Like , how should we go about figuring out these {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: OK . So , first of all is , uh , do e either of you guys , you got a favorite belief - net that you 've , you know , played with ? JavaBayes or something ?\nGrad F: Oh . No , not really .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . Well , anyway . f Get one . OK ? So {disfmarker} y so one of th one of the things we wanna do is actually , uh , pick a package , doesn't matter which one , uh , presumably one that 's got good interactive abilities , cuz a lot of what we 're gonna be d You know , we don't need the one that 'll solve massive , uh , belief - nets quickly . d w These are not gonna get big in {disfmarker} in the foreseeable future . But we do want one in which it 's easy to interact with and , uh , modify . Because i that 's {disfmarker} A lot of what it 's gonna be , is , um , playing with this . And probably one in which it 's easy to have , um , what amounts to transcript files . So that if {disfmarker} if we have all these cases {disfmarker} OK ? So we make up cases that have these features , OK , and then you 'd like to be able to say , \" OK , here 's a bunch of cases \" {disfmarker} There 're even ones tha that you can do learning OK ? So you have all their cases and {disfmarker} and their results and you have a {disfmarker} algorithms to go through and run around trying to set the {disfmarker} the probabilities for you . Um , probably that 's not worth it . I mean , my guess is we aren't gonna have enough data that 's good enough to make the {disfmarker} these data fitting ones worth it , but I don't know . So I would say you guy the first task for you two guys is to um , pick a package . OK , and you wanna it s You know , the standard things you want it stable , you want it {disfmarker} yeah , @ @ . And , as soon as we have one , we can start trying to , uh , make a first cut at what 's going on .\n",
      "Grad B: An - Nuh .\n",
      "Professor C: But it {disfmarker} what I like about it is it 's very concrete . OK ? We {disfmarker} we have a {disfmarker} we know what the outcomes are gonna be , and we have some {disfmarker} some data that 's loose , we can use our own intuition , and see how hard it is , and , importantly , what intermediate nodes we think we need . So it {disfmarker} if it turns out that just , thinking about the problem , you come up with things you really need to {disfmarker} You know , this is the kind of thing that is , you know , an intermediate little piece in your belief - net . That 'd be really interesting .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: And it {disfmarker} and it may serve as a platform for a person , maybe me , or whoever , who is interested in doing some linguistic analysis . I mean , w we have the For - FrameNet group here , and we can see what they have found out about those concepts already , that are contained in the data , um , you know , to come up with a nice little set of features and um , maybe even means of s uh , extracting them . And {disfmarker} and that altogether could also be {disfmarker} uh , become a nice paper that 's going to be published somewhere , if we sit down and write it . And um {disfmarker} When you said JavaBayes belief - net you were talking about ones that run on coffee ? or that are in the program language Java ?\n",
      "Professor C: No , th It turns out that there is a , uh {disfmarker} The new end of Java libraries . OK , and it turns out one called\nGrad B: Mmm . OK .\nProfessor C: Which is one that fair {disfmarker} people around here use a fair amount . I have no idea whether that 's {disfmarker}  The obvious advantage of that is that you can then , relatively easily , get all the other Java packages for GUIs or whatever else you might want to do .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: So that i that 's I think why a lot of people doing research use that . But it may not be {disfmarker} I have no idea whether that 's the best choice an and there 're plenty of people around , students in the department who , you know , live and breathe Bayes - nets . So , uh ,\nGrad D: There 's the m tool kit that um , Kevin Murphy has developed ,\nProfessor C: Right . It 's OK .\nGrad D: which might be useful too .\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor C: So , yeah , Kevin would be a good person to start with .\n",
      "Grad D: And it 's available Matlab code .\nProfessor C: Nancy knows him well . I don't know I don't know whether you guys have met Kevin yet or not ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: but , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah , I know him .\nGrad B: But i But since we all probably are pretty sure that , um , the {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: For example , this th th the dialogue history is {disfmarker} is um , producing XML documents . M - three - L of course is XML . And the ontology that um , uh the student is {disfmarker} is constructing for me back in {disfmarker} in EML is in OIL and that 's also in XML . And so that 's where a lot of knowledge about bakeries , about hotels , about castles and stuff is gonna come from .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: Um , so , if it has that IO capability and if it 's a Java package , it will definitely be able {disfmarker} We can couple .\nProfessor C: Yeah . So , yeah , we 're sort of {nonvocalsound} committed to XML as the kind of , uh , interchange . But that 's , you know , not a big deal .\nGrad B: Who isn't , nuh ?\n",
      "Professor C: So , in terms of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} interchanging in and out of any module we build , It 'll be XML . And if you 're going off to queries to the ontology , for example , you 'll have to deal with its interface . But that 's {disfmarker} that 's fine an and um , all of these things have been built with much bigger projects than this in mind . So they {disfmarker} they have worked very hard . It 's kind of blackboards and multi - wave blackboards and ways of interchanging and registering your a And so forth . So , that I don't think is even worth us worrying about just yet . I mean if we can get the core of the thing to work , in a way that we 're comfortable with , then we ca we can get in and out of it with , uh , XML , um , little descriptors . I believe .\n",
      "Grad B: Hmm . Yeah . Yeah , I like , for example , the {disfmarker} what you said about the getting input from {disfmarker} from just files about where you h where you have the data , have specified the features and so forth .\nProfessor C: I don't {disfmarker} I don't see {disfmarker}\nGrad B: That 's , of course , easy also to do with , you know , XML .\nProfessor C: Uh , you could have an X {disfmarker} yeah , you could make and XML format for that . Sure .\nGrad B: So r\n",
      "Professor C: That {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} um , you know , feature value XML format is probably as good a way as any . So it 's als Yeah , I guess it 's also worth , um , while you 're poking around , poke around for XML packages that um , do things you 'd like .\nGrad F: Doesn't {disfmarker} does SmartKom system have such packages ?\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Sure .\nGrad B: The {disfmarker} the lib M - three - L library does that . It 's also {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: And the question is , d you c you {disfmarker} you 'll have to l We 'll have to l That should be {disfmarker} ay We should be able to look at that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: No , u u y um the {disfmarker} What I {disfmarker} What sort of came to my mind i is {disfmarker} was the notion of an idea that if {disfmarker} if there are l nets that can actually lear try to set their own , um , probability factors based on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on input {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: which is in file format , if we , um , get really w wild on this , we may actually want to use some {disfmarker} some corpora that other people made and , for example , if {disfmarker} if they are in {disfmarker} in MATE , then we get X M L documents with discourse annotations , t you know , t from the discourse act down to the phonetic level .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Um , Michael has a project where {disfmarker} you know , recognizing discourse acts and he does it all in MATE , and so they 're actually annotating data and data and data . So if we w if we think it 's worth it one of these days , not {disfmarker} not with this first prototype but maybe with a second , and we have the possibility of {disfmarker} of taking input that 's generated elsewhere and learn from that , that 'd be nice .\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: It 'd be nice , but {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I do I don't wanna count on it . I mean , you can't {disfmarker} you can't run your project based on the speculation that {disfmarker} that the data will come ,\nGrad B: No , no , uh , just for {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: and you don't have to actually design the nets .\nGrad B: Nuh . Just a back door that {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think we should devote m\n",
      "Professor C: Could happen . Yeah . So in terms of {disfmarker} of the , um {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} what the SmartKom gives us for M - three - L packages , it could be that they 're fine , or it could be eeh . You don't {disfmarker} You know , you don't really like it . So we 're not {disfmarker} we 're not abs we 're not required to use their packages . We are required at the end to give them stuff in their format , but hey .\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , it 's , uh {disfmarker} It doesn't control what you do in you know , internally .\nGrad B: \nGrad E: What 's the time frame for this ?\nGrad B: Two days ? Two , three days ?\nProfessor C: Huh ? Yeah bu w I 'd like that this {disfmarker} y yeah , this week , to ha to n to {vocalsound} have y guys , uh , you know , pick {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} y you know , belief - net package\nGrad B: No .\n",
      "Professor C: and tell us what it is , and give us a pointer so we can play with it or something .\nGrad F: Sure .\nProfessor C: And , then as soon as we have it , I think we should start trying to populate it for this problem . Make a first cut at , you know , what 's going on , and probably the ea easiest way to do that is some on - line way . I mean , you can f figure out whether you wanna make it a web site or {disfmarker} You know , how\n",
      "Grad B: Uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} um , OK , I {disfmarker} t Yeah . I was actually more joking . With the two or three days . So this was {disfmarker} was a usual jo\nProfessor C: OK , I wasn't .\nGrad B: Um , it will take as long as y y yo you guys need for that .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Right .\n",
      "Grad B: But um , maybe it might be interesting if {disfmarker} if the two of you can agree on who 's gonna be the speaker next Monday , to tell us something about the net you picked , and what it does , and how it does that .\nProfessor C: Well , y Well , or both of them speak .\nGrad F: Sure .\nGrad B: Yeah , or you can split it up .\nProfessor C: We don't care .\nGrad B: So , y\nGrad F: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: So that will be sort of the assignment for next week , is to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} for slides and whatever net you picked and what it can do and {disfmarker} and how far you 've gotten . Pppt !\nProfessor C: Well , I 'd like to also , though , uh , ha have a first cut at what the belief - net looks like . Even if it 's really crude . OK ? So , you know , here a here are {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So we 're supposed to @ @ about features and whatnot ,\nProfessor C: Right . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: and {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: And , as I said , what I 'd like to do is , I mean , what would be really great is you bring it in {disfmarker} If {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if we could , uh , in the meeting , say , you know , \" Here 's the package , here 's the current one we have , \" uh , you know , \" What other ideas do you have ? \" and then we can think about this idea of making up the data file . Of , uh , you know , get a {disfmarker} t a p tentative format for it , let 's say XML , that says , l you know , \" These are the various scenarios we 've experienced . \" We can just add to that and there 'll be this {disfmarker} this file of them and when you think you 've got a better belief - net , You just run it against this , um {disfmarker} this data file .\n",
      "Grad F: So we 'll be like , hand , uh , doing all the probabilities .\nProfessor C: Oh , yeah , unt until we know more .\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad E: And what 's the relation to this with {disfmarker} Changing the table so that the system works in English ?\n",
      "Grad B: OK . So this is {disfmarker} Whi - while you were doing this , I received two lovely emails . The {disfmarker} the full NT and the full Linux version are there . I 've downloaded them both , and I started to unpack the Linux one {disfmarker} Uh , the NT one worked fine . and I started unta pack the Linux one , it told me that I can't really unpack it because it contains a future date . So this is the time difference between Germany . I had to wait until one o ' clock this afternoon before I was able to unpack it . Now , um {disfmarker} Then it will be my job to get this whole thing running both on Swede and on this machine . And so that we have it . And then um {disfmarker} Hopefully that {disfmarker} hoping that my urgent message will now come through to Ralph and Tilman that it will send some more documentation along , we {disfmarker} I control p Maybe that 's what I will do next Monday is show the state and show the system and show that .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . So the answer , Johno , is that these are , at the moment , separate . Uh , what one hopes is that when we understand how the analyzer works , we can both worry about converting it to English and worry about how it could ex extract the parameters we need for the belief - net .\nGrad E: I guess my question was more about time frame . So we 're gonna do belief - nets this week , and then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Oh , yeah . I don't know . n None of this is i n Neither of these projects has got a real tight time - line , in the sense that over the next month there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a deliverable .\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . S so uh , it 's opportu in that sense it 's opportunistic . If {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} you know , if we don't get any information for these guys f for several weeks then we aren't gonna sit around , you know , wasting time , trying to do the problem or guess what they {disfmarker} You know , just pppt ! go on and do other things .\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah , but uh {disfmarker} but the uh {disfmarker} This point is really {disfmarker} I think very , very valid that ultimately we hope that {disfmarker} that both will merge into a harmonious and , um , wonderful , um , state where we can not only do the bare necessities , IE , changing the table so it does exactly in English what it does in German , but also that we can sort of have the system where we can say , \" OK , this is what it usually does , and now we add this little thing to it \" , you know ? whatever , Johno 's and Bhaskara 's great belief - net , and we plug it in , and then for these certain tasks , and we know that navigational tasks are gonna be a core domain of the new system , it all {disfmarker} all of a sudden it does much better . Nuh ? Because it can produce better answers , tell the person , as I s showed you on this map , n you know , produce either you know , a red line that goes to the Vista point or a red line that goes to the Tango point or red line that goes to the door , which would be great . So not only can you show that you know something sensible but ultimately , if you produce a system like this , it takes the person where it wants to go . Rather than taking him always to the geometric center of a building ,\n",
      "Grad F: Mmm .\nGrad B: which is what they do now . And we even had to take out a bit . Nancy , you missed that part . We had to take out a bit of the road work . So that it doesn't take you to the wall {vocalsound} every time .\nGrad D: Oh , really ?\nGrad B: So . Um {disfmarker} So this was actually an actual problem that we encountered , which nobody have {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} because car navigation systems don't really care . You know , they get you to the beginning of the street , some now do the house number .\n",
      "Grad D: Hmm .\nGrad B: But even that is problematic .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: If you go d If you wanna drive to the SAP in Waldorf , I 'm sure the same is true of Microsoft , it takes you to the {disfmarker} the address , whatever , street number blah - blah - blah , you are miles away from the entrance .\nProfessor C: Yep .\nGrad B: Because the s postal address is maybe a mailbox somewhere . Nuh ?\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: but the entrance where you actually wanna go is somewhere completely different . So unless you 're a mail person you really don't wanna go there .\nGrad D: Right , yeah .\nProfessor C: Probably not then , cuz y you probably can't drop the mail there anyway .\nGrad B: Probably neither {disfmarker} e not even that .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Clear ?\nGrad F: OK . Sounds good .\nGrad E: The Powder - Tower is made of red limestone .\nGrad D: I was wondering .\nGrad B: Do you wanna see a picture ?\nGrad D: OK . Sure !\nGrad E: Sure !\nGrad B: Have to reboot for that though .\n",
      "Grad D: Um . So , you two , who 'll be working on this , li are {disfmarker} are you gl will you be doing {disfmarker} Well , I mean are you supposed to just do it by thinking about the situation ? Can you use the sample data ?\nProfessor C: Of course they use the sample data .\nGrad D: Is it like {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean , ho is there more than {disfmarker} Is there a lot s of sample data that is beyond what you {disfmarker} what you have there ?\n",
      "Grad B: There {disfmarker} there 's more than I showed , but um , um , I think this is sort of um , in part my job to look at that and {disfmarker} and to see whether there are features in there that can be extracted ,\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad B: and to come up with some features that are not you know , empirically based on {disfmarker} on a real experiment or on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on reality\nGrad D: Right . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: but sort of on your intuition of you know , \" Aha ! This is maybe a sign for that ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: and this is maybe a sign for this . \"\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: So , yeah . Later this week we should sort of get together , and sort of start thinking about that , hopefully .\nGrad B: Talk features . Yep .\nProfessor C: OK . We can end the meeting and call Adam , and then we wanna s look at some filthy pictures of Heidelberg . We can do that as well .\n"
    ],
    "length": 18388,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 48,
    "question": "Summarize the Meeting",
    "answer": "Postdoc C suggested a possible hypothesis that energy is increased as more people are speaking. New forms were discussed, as these will include more details that may have to be completed by analysts through interviews with participants. The Multitrans update by the graduate student seems promising, and has been sent for review. ",
    "docs": [
      "Professor C: Starts {disfmarker} No . No .\nPhD D: No . That 's a different thing .\nProfessor C: There 's another {disfmarker} I don't know . It starts with a P or something . I forget the word for it , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's um\nPhD D: Oh .\nProfessor C: Typically when you {disfmarker} you 're ab r starting around forty for most people , it starts to harden and then it 's just harder for the lens to shift things\nPhD D: Oh .\n",
      "Professor C: and th the {disfmarker} the symptom is typically that you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you have to hold stuff uh uh further away to {disfmarker} to see it .\nPhD E: Uh - huh . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: In fact , uh m my brother 's a {pause} gerontological psychologist and he {disfmarker} he uh {vocalsound} came up with an {disfmarker} an uh {disfmarker} a uh body age test which uh gets down to sort of only three measurements that are good enough st statistical predictors of all the rest of it . And one of them is {disfmarker} is the distance {vocalsound} that you have to hold it at .\nPhD D: Give someone a piece of paper and then they {disfmarker} Oh .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: We 're {disfmarker} we 're live by the way , so we 've got a good intro here\nProfessor C: Oh . Yeah . About how old I am .\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad A: We can edit that out if you want .\nPhD D: Oh , that 's optional .\nProfessor C: No , that 's OK .\nGrad A: OK . So . This time the form discussion should be very short ,\nPhD D: You know .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: right ?\nProfessor C: It also should be {pause} later .\nGrad A: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: Because Jane uh is not here yet .\nGrad A: Good point .\nProfessor C: And uh she 'll be most interested in that . Uh , she 's probably least involved in the signal - processing stuff so maybe we can just {disfmarker} just uh , I don't think we should go though an elaborate thing , but um uh Jose and I were just talking about {vocalsound} the uh {nonvocalsound} uh , speech e energy thing ,\nPhD E: The @ @ {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: and I uh {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: We didn't talk about the derivatives . But I think , you know , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} i if I can {disfmarker} if you don't mind my {disfmarker} my speaking for you for a bit , um {vocalsound} Uh . Right now , that he 's not really showing any kind of uh distinction , but uh {disfmarker} but we discussed a couple of the possible things that uh he can look at . Um . And uh one is that uh this is all in log energy and log energy is basically compressing the distances {vocalsound} uh {pause} between things . Um {pause} Another is that he needs to play with the {disfmarker} the different uh {pause} uh temporal sizes . He was {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he was taking everything over two hundred milliseconds uh , and uh he 's going to vary that number and also look at moving windows , as we discussed before . Um And uh {disfmarker} and the other thing is that the {disfmarker} yeah doing the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} subtracting off the mean and the variance in the {disfmarker} {pause} uh and dividing it by the {pause} standard deviation in the log domain , {vocalsound} may not be {pause} the right thing to do .\n",
      "Grad A: Hi Jane !\nPhD E: Hi .\nGrad A: We just started .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Could you take that mike there ?\nPhD D: Are these the long term means ? Like , over the whole {disfmarker} I mean , the means of {pause} what ?\nGrad A: Thanks .\nProfessor C: Uh B Between {disfmarker} between {disfmarker}\nPhD D: All the frames in the conversation ?\nProfessor C: No .\nPhD D: Or of things that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Between {disfmarker} Neither . It 's uh between the pauses {pause} uh for some segment .\nPhD E: No .\nPhD D: Oh .\nProfessor C: And so i i his {disfmarker} his {disfmarker} He 's making the constraint it has to be at least two hundred milliseconds .\nPhD D: Oh .\nProfessor C: And so you take that . And then he 's {disfmarker} he 's uh measuring at the frame level {disfmarker} still at the frame level , of what {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: and then {disfmarker} and then just uh normalizing with that larger amount . um and {disfmarker} But one thing he was pointing out is when he {disfmarker} he looked at a bunch of examples in log domain , it is actually pretty hard to see {vocalsound} the change . And you can sort of {pause} see that , because of j of just putting it on the board that {vocalsound} if you sort of have log - X plus log - X , that 's the log of X plus the log of two\nPhD E: Yep .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , maybe it 's not log distributed .\nPhD E: Mmm . Yeah .\nProfessor C: and it 's just , {pause} you know , it {disfmarker} it diminishes the {pause} effect of having two of them .\nPhD E: \nProfessor C: Um .\nPhD D: But you could do like a C D F there instead ? I mean , we don't know that the distribution here is normally .\nProfessor C: Yes , right . So {disfmarker} So what I was suggesting to him is that {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: So just some kind of a simple {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Actually , a PDF . But , you know , uh But , either way .\nPhD D: PDF\nProfessor C: Yeah . Yeah , eith eith uh {vocalsound} B\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Something like that where it 's sort of data driven .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , but I think {pause} also u I think a good first indicator is when the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the researcher looks at {vocalsound} examples of the data and can not see a change {pause} in how big the {disfmarker} the signal is , {vocalsound} when the two speaker {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Then , that 's a problem right there . So . I think you should at least be able ,\nPhD D: Oh yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: doing casual looking and can get the sense , \" Hey , there 's something there . \" and then you can play around with the measures . And when he 's looking in the log domain he 's not really seeing it .\nPhD D: Oh yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So . And when he 's looking in straight energy he is , so that 's a good place to start .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Um . So that was {disfmarker} that was the discussion we just had . Um . {vocalsound} The other thing Actually we ca had a question for Adam in this . Uh , when you did the {vocalsound} sampling ? uh {pause} over the {pause} speech segments or s or sampling over the {disfmarker} the individual channels in order to do the e uh the {pause} amplitude equalization , {vocalsound} did you do it over just the entire {disfmarker} everything in the mike channels ?\nPhD E: How {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: You didn't try to find speech ?\nGrad A: No , I just took over the entire s uh entire channel um {pause} sampled ten minutes randomly .\nProfessor C: Right , OK . So then that means that someone who didn't speak {pause} very much {vocalsound} would be largely represented by silence .\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor C: And someone who would {disfmarker} who would be {disfmarker} So the normalization factor probably is {pause} i i i {pause} is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , this was quite quick and dirty , and it was just for {pause} listening .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad A: And for listening it seems to work really well .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: So .\nProfessor C: Yeah . But that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: But , it 's not {disfmarker} Not a good measure .\nProfessor C: Right . So th\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . So yeah there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} There 's a good chance then given that different people do talk different amounts {pause} that there is {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there is still a lot more to be gained from gain norm normalization with some sort\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Mmm .\nGrad A: Yes , absolutely .\nProfessor C: if {disfmarker} if we can figure out a way to do it .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Uh . But we were agreed that in addition to that {comment} uh there should be {pause} s stuff related to pitch and harmonics and so forth .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So we didn't talk at all about uh the other derivatives , but uh again just {disfmarker} just looking at {disfmarker} Uh , I think uh Liz has a very good point , that in fact it would be much more graphic just to show {disfmarker} Well , actually , you do have some distributions here , uh for these cases .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: You have some histograms , um {pause} and {pause} uh , they don't look very separate .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: uh {vocalsound} {pause} separated .\nPhD E: This is the {disfmarker} the first derivate of log of frame energy uh without any kind of normalization .\nPhD D: What {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: Log energy . Sorry .\nPhD E: These the These are the {disfmarker} the first experiments uh with comment uh\nPhD D: Frame energy .\n",
      "Grad A: Except that {pause} it 's hard to judge this because the {disfmarker} they 're not normalized . It 's just number of frames .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: But yeah , even so .\nPhD D: W {vocalsound} I mean , what I meant is , even if you use linear , {pause} you know , raw {pause} measures , like {pause} raw energy or whatever ,\nProfessor C: \" Number \" {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: maybe we shouldn't make any assumptions about the distribution 's shape , and just use {disfmarker} you know , use the distribution to model the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {pause} the mean , or what y you know , rather than the mean take some {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah . But {disfmarker} And so in {disfmarker} in these he 's got that .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: He 's got some pictures . But he doesn't {disfmarker} he doesn't in the {disfmarker} he i\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: just in derivatives , but not in the {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . Oh .\nProfessor C: but he d but he doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right . So , we don't {pause} know what they look like {pause} on the , {pause} tsk {disfmarker} {comment} For the raw .\nProfessor C: But he didn't h have it for the energy . He had it for the derivatives . Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . So . I mean , there might be something there . I don't know .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Huh .\nGrad A: Interesting\nPhD E: Here I {disfmarker} I\nProfessor C: Oh that {disfmarker} yeah that 's a good q\nPhD E: in {disfmarker} No I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I haven't the result\nProfessor C: did {disfmarker} did you have this sort of thing , for just the {disfmarker} just the l r uh the {disfmarker} the unnormalized log energy ? OK . Yeah . So she {disfmarker} she 's right .\n",
      "PhD E: but it 's the {disfmarker} it 's the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the following .\nProfessor C: That 's a {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Well it might be just good to know what it looks like .\nProfessor C: Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} That 's uh {pause} cuz I 'd mentioned scatter plots before but she 's right ,\nPhD D: Cuz {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Huh ?\n",
      "Professor C: I mean , even before you get the scatter plots , just looking at a single feature {vocalsound} uh , looking at the distribution , is a good thing to do .\nPhD E: Yeah . Catal - uh {disfmarker} Combining the different possibilities of uh the parameters . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the scatter plot {pause} combining eh different {pause} n two combination .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , but {disfmarker} but what she 's saying {pause} is , which is right , is {pause} le\nPhD E: combination of two , {pause} of energy and derivate {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: I mean , let 's start with the {disfmarker} Before we get complicated , let 's start with the most basic wh thing , which is {pause} we 're arguing that if you take energy {disfmarker} uh if you look at the energy , that , when two people are speaking at the same time , usually {vocalsound} {pause} there 'll be more energy than when one is right ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: That 's {disfmarker} that sort of hypothesis .\nPhD E: That 's right .\n",
      "Professor C: And the first way you 'd look at that , uh s she 's , you know , absolutely right , is that you would just take a look at the distribution of those two things , much as you 've plotted them here ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: You know , but just {disfmarker} but just {disfmarker} {pause} just uh do it {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Well in this case you have three . You have the silence , and that {disfmarker} that 's fine .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: So , uh with three colors or three shades or whatever , just {disfmarker} just look at those distributions .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: And then , given that as a base , you can see if that gets improved , you know , or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} {pause} or worsened {pause} by the {disfmarker} looking at regular energy , looking at log energy , we were just proposing that maybe it 's {disfmarker} you know , it 's harder to {pause} see with the log energy , um and uh also these different normalizations , does a particular choice of normalization make it better ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: But I had maybe made it too complicated by suggesting early on , that you look at scatter plots because that 's looking at a distribution in two dimensions . Let 's start off just in one , uh , with this feature .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: I think that 's probably the most basic thing , before anything very complicated .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Um And then we w I think we 're agreed that pitch - related things are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are going to be a {disfmarker} a really likely candidate to help .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . I agree , yeah . Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: Um {pause} But {pause} since {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh your intuition from looking at some of the data , is that when you looked at the regular energy , that it did in fact usually go up , {vocalsound} when two people were talking , {vocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} eh you know , you should be able to come up with a measure which will {pause} match your intuition .\nPhD E: OK . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah , yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: And she 's right , that a {disfmarker} that having a {disfmarker} having {disfmarker} {comment} having this table , with a whole bunch of things , {pause} with the standard deviation , the variance and so forth , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's harder to interpret than just looking at the {disfmarker} the same kind of picture you have here .\n",
      "PhD E: But {disfmarker} Uh - huh . Yeah . But {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it 's curious but uh I f I found it in the {disfmarker} in the mixed file , in one channel {vocalsound} that eh in several {disfmarker} oh e eh several times eh you have an speaker talking alone with a high level of energy\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: eh in the middle eh a zone of overlapping with mmm less energy\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: and eh come with another speaker with high energy\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: and the overlapping zone has eh less energy .\nProfessor C: Yeah . So there 'll be some cases for which {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Because there reach very many\nProfessor C: But , the qu So {disfmarker} So they 'll be {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: This is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I w want to point {pause} to visual things , But I mean they {disfmarker} there 'll be time {disfmarker} There 'll be overlap between the distributions , but the question is , \" If it 's a reasonable feature at all , there 's some separation . \"\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: Especially locally .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So . Locally .\nPhD E: just locally , yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: And {disfmarker} I was just going to say that {disfmarker} that {pause} right now we 're just exploring .\nPhD D: And the other thing is I Sorry . I {disfmarker}\nGrad A: What you would imagine eventually , is that you 'll feed all of these features into some {pause} discriminative system .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad A: And so even if {disfmarker} if one of the features does a good job at one type of overlap , another feature might do a good job at another type of overlap .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Right . I mean the {disfmarker} the reason I had suggested the scatter f p features is I used to do this a lot , when we had thirteen or fifteen or twenty features {pause} to look at .\nPhD E: Yeah , this is the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: um Because something is a good feature uh by itself , you don't really know how it 'll behave in combination and so it 's nice to have as many {disfmarker} as many together at the same time as possible in uh in some reasonable visual form . There 's cool graphic things people have had sometimes to put together three or four in some funny {disfmarker} funny way . But it 's true that you shouldn't do any of that unless you know that the individual ones , at least , have {disfmarker} have some uh {disfmarker} some hope\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , especially for normalizing .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: I mean , it 's really important to {pause} pick a normalization that matches the distribution for that feature .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: And it may not be the same for all the types of overlaps or the windows may not be the same . e Actually , I was wondering , {vocalsound} right now you 're taking a {disfmarker} all of the {pause} speech , from the whole meeting , and you 're trying to find points of overlap , but we don't really know which speaker is overlapping with which speaker ,\nProfessor C: Right .\nPhD D: right ? So I mean another way would just be to take the speech from just , say , Morgan , And just Jane and then just their overlaps ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: like {disfmarker} but by hand , by cheating , and looking at you know , if you can detect something that way , because if we can't do it that way , there 's no good way that we 're going to be able to do it .\nGrad A: No prayer .\nPhD D: That {disfmarker} You know , there might be something helpful and cleaner about looking at just {pause} individuals and then that combination alone .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Plus , I think it has more elegant {disfmarker} e\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: The m the right model will be {pause} easier to see that way . So if {disfmarker} I don't know , if you go through and you find Adam , cuz he has a lot of overlaps and some other speaker who also has e enough speech\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: and just sort of look at those three cases of Adam and the other person and the overlaps ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: maybe {disfmarker} and just look at the distributions , maybe there is a clear pattern\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: but we just can't see it because there 's too many combinations of {disfmarker} of people that can overlap .\nPhD E: Uh - huh . Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I had the same intuition last {disfmarker} last {disfmarker} last week .\nPhD D: So . Just seems sort of complex .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: I think it 's {disfmarker} to start with it 's s your {disfmarker} your idea of simplifying , starting with something that {pause} you can see {pause} eh you know without the {pause} extra {pause} layers of {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right . Cuz if energy doesn't matter there , like {disfmarker} I don't think this is true , but what if\nPhD E: To study individual ?\nPostdoc B: Sorry , what ?\nPhD D: Hmm ?\nPhD E: To study individual ?\n",
      "Postdoc B: Well , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you don't have to study everybody individually\nPhD D: Well , to study the simplest case to get rid of extra {disfmarker}\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} But {disfmarker} Consider {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: but {pause} just simple case and the one that has the lot of data associated with it .\nPhD D: Right . Cuz what if it 's the case and I don't think this is true {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: That was a great overlap by the way .\nPhD D: What if it 's the case that when two people overlap they equate their {disfmarker} you know , there 's a {pause} conservation of energy and everybody {disfmarker} both people talk more softly ? I don't think this happens at all .\nPostdoc B: Or {disfmarker} or what if what if the equipment {disfmarker} what if the equipment adjusts somehow ,\nPhD D: Or they get louder .\nPostdoc B: there 's some equalizing in there ?\nPhD D: Yeah or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Uh , no we don't have that .\nPhD D: I mean .\nGrad A: Well , but {disfmarker} But I think that 's what I was saying about different types of overlap .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nProfessor C: But .\nPostdoc B: Saturation .\nPhD D: There are {disfmarker} there are different types , and within those types , like as Jose was saying , that {pause} sounded like a backchannel overlap , meaning the kind that 's {pause} a friendly encouragement , like \" Mm - hmm . \" , \" Great ! \" , \" Yeah ! \"\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: And it doesn't take {disfmarker} you don't take the floor . Um , but , some of those , as you showed , I think can be discriminated by the duration of the overlap .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: So . It {disfmarker} Actually the s new student , Don , who um Adam has met , and he was at one of our meetings {disfmarker} He 's {pause} getting his feet wet and then he 'll be starting again {pause} in mid - January . He 's interested in trying to distinguish the types of overlap . I don't know if he 's talked with you yet . But in sort of honing in on these different types\nPhD E: Yeah . I don't consi Now I don't consider that possibility .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker} So maybe {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: This is a s a general studio of the overlapping we 're studying the {disfmarker} i\nProfessor C: Yeah . Well {pause} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I would s actually still recommend that he do the overall thing\nPhD D: So it might be something that we can {pause} help by categorizing some of them and then , you know , look at that .\nProfessor C: because {pause} it would be the quickest thing for him to do . He could {disfmarker} You see , he already has all his stuff in place ,\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: he has the histogram mechanism , he has the stuff that subtracts out {disfmarker} and all he has to do is change it uh uh from {disfmarker} from log to plain energy and plot the histogram and look at it . And then he should go on and do the other stuff bec but {disfmarker} But this will {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah , no . I didn't mean that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} for you to do that , but I was thinking if {disfmarker} if Don and I are trying to get {pause} categories\n",
      "Professor C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: and we label some data for you , and we say this is what we think is going {disfmarker} So you don't have to worry about it . And here 's the three types of overlaps .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: And we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll do the labelling for you .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Hm - hmm .\nPhD D: Um .\nPhD E: Consider different class of overlap ?\nPhD D: Yeah , that we would be working on anyway .\n",
      "PhD E: If there 's time .\nPhD D: Then maybe {pause} you can try some different things for those three cases , and see if that helps , or {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . This is the thing I {disfmarker} I comment with you before , that uh we have a great variation of th situation of overlapping .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: And the behavior for energy is , uh log energy , {vocalsound} is not uh the same all the time .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: But I guess I was just saying that {disfmarker} that right now uh from the means that you gave , I don't have any sense of whether even , you know , there are any significant number of cases for which there is distinct {disfmarker} and I would imagine there should be some {disfmarker} you know , there should be {disfmarker} The distributions should be somewhat separated .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Uh and I {disfmarker} I would still guess that if they are not separated at all , that there 's some {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's most likely something wrong in the way that we 're measuring it .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Um , but {pause} um For instance , I mean I wouldn't expect that it was very common overall , that when two people were talking at the same time , that it would {disfmarker} that it really was lower ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: although sometimes , as you say , it would .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So . So .\nPhD D: Yeah , no , that was {disfmarker} That was a jok\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: or a sort of , a case where {disfmarker} where you would never know that unless you actually go and look at two individuals .\nProfessor C: I mean . No . It could {disfmarker} it probably does happen sometimes .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Mind if I turned that light off ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: So .\n",
      "Grad A: The flickering is annoying me .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD D: It might the case , though , that the significant energy , just as Jose was saying , comes in the non - backchannel cases . Because in back Most people when they 're talking don't change their own {pause} energy when they get a backchannel , cuz they 're not really predicting the backchannel .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And sometimes it 's a nod and sometimes it 's an \" mm - hmm \" .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: And the \" mm - hmm \" is really usually very low energy .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: So maybe those don't actually have much difference in energy . But {pause} all the other cases might .\nProfessor C: e {vocalsound} e and {disfmarker} and again what they {disfmarker} what difference there was would kind of be lost in taking the log ,\nPhD D: and the backchannels are sort of easy to spot s in terms of their words or {disfmarker} I mean , just listen to it .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: So .\nProfessor C: so , as well .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , it would be lost {pause} no matter what you do .\nPhD E: But {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD D: It just {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Mmm , no , if it 's {disfmarker} if i if it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Tone\nProfessor C: Well , it won't be as big .\nPhD D: I mean , even if you take the log , you can {disfmarker} your model just has a more sensitive {pause} measures .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Sure , but tone might be very\n",
      "PhD D: So .\nGrad A: Yeah , you 're \" mm - hmm \" tone is going to be very different .\nPhD D: Yeah . Right . Right .\nGrad A: You could imagine doing specialized ones for different types of backchannels , if you could {disfmarker} if you had a good model for it . Your \" mm - hmm \" detector .\nProfessor C: If {disfmarker} if you 're {disfmarker} a I guess my point is , if you 're doing essentially a linear separation , taking the log first does in fact make it harder to separate .\nGrad A: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: So it 's {disfmarker} So , uh if you i i So i if there {disfmarker} if there close to things it does\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: it 's a nonlinear operation that does in fact change the distinction . If you 're doing a non if you 're doing some fancy thing then {disfmarker} then yeah . And right now we 're essentially doing this linear thing by looking across here and {disfmarker} and saying we 're going to cut it here . Um and that {disfmarker} that 's the indicator that we 're getting . But anyway , yeah , we 're not {pause} disagreeing on any of this , we should look at it more uh {disfmarker} more finely , but uh uh I think that {disfmarker} This often happens , you do fairly complicated things , and then you stand back from them and you realize that you haven't done something simple . So uh , if you generated something like that just for the energy and see , and then , a a a as {disfmarker} as Liz says , when they g have uh uh smaller um , more coherent groups to look at , that would be another interesting thing later .\n",
      "PhD E: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: And then that should give us some indication {disfmarker} between those , should give us some indication of whether there 's anything to be achieved f from energy at all .\nPhD E: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: And then you can move on to the uh {pause} uh more {nonvocalsound} pitch related stuff .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think this is a good idea .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Not consider the log energy .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . But then the {disfmarker} Have you started looking at the pitch related {pause} stuff at all , or {disfmarker} ? Pitch {pause} related ?\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor C: Harmonicity and so on ?\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I 'm preparing the {disfmarker} the program but I don't {disfmarker} I don't begin because eh {vocalsound} I saw your email\nProfessor C: Preparing to {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: and {pause} I agree with you it 's better to {disfmarker} I suppose it 's better to {disfmarker} to consider the {disfmarker} the energy this kind of parameter {vocalsound} bef\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . Oh , that 's not what I meant . No , no . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} Well , we certainly should see this but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that the harm I certainly wasn't saying this was better than the harmonicity and pitch related things I was just saying\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I go on with the {disfmarker} with the pitch ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD E: aha ! {pause} OK .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , I was just saying {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I understood uh that eh {pause} I {disfmarker} I had to finish {pause} by the moment with the {vocalsound} and {disfmarker} and concentrate my {disfmarker} my energy in that problem .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . OK . {vocalsound} OK . But I think , like , all these derivatives and second derivatives and all these other very fancy things , I think I would just sort of look at the energy {pause} and then get into the harmonicity as {disfmarker} as a suggestion .\nPhD E: OK . I go on with the pitch .\nProfessor C: Uh OK . So maybe uh since w we 're trying to uh compress the meeting , um , I know Adam had some form stuff he wanted to talk about and did you have some ?\n",
      "Postdoc B: I wanted to ask just s something on the end of this top topic . So , when I presented my results about the uh distribution of overlaps and the speakers and the profiles of the speakers , at the bottom of that I did have a proposal ,\nPhD E: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc B: and I had plan to go through with it , of {disfmarker} of co coding the types of overlaps that people were involved in s just with reference to speaker style so , you know , with reference {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oh .\nPostdoc B: and you know I said that on my {disfmarker} in my summary ,\n",
      "PhD D: That 'd be great .\nPostdoc B: that {pause} you know so it 's like people may have different amounts of being overlapped with or overlapping\nPhD D: Yeah , I remem Right .\nPostdoc B: but that in itself is not informative without knowing what types of overlaps they 're involved in so I was planning to do a taxonomy of types overlaps with reference to that .\nPhD D: That would be great .\nPostdoc B: So , but it you know it 's like it sounds like you also have uh something in that direction .\nPhD D: That would be really great .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Hmm .\nPostdoc B: Is {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: We have nothing {disfmarker} You know , basically , we got {pause} his environment set up . He 's {disfmarker} he 's a double - E {comment} you know . So . It 's mostly that , {pause} if we had to {pause} label it ourselves , we {disfmarker} we would or we 'd have to , to get started , but if {disfmarker} {pause} It {disfmarker} it would be much better if you can do it . You 'd be much better {comment} at doing it also because {vocalsound} you know , I {disfmarker} I 'm not {disfmarker} I don't have a good feel for how they should be sorted out ,\n",
      "Postdoc B: Interesting .\nPhD D: and I really didn't wanna go into that if I didn't have to . So if {disfmarker} If you 're w willing to do that or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}\nGrad A: It would be interesting , though , to talk , maybe not at the meeting , but at some other time about what are the classes .\nPostdoc B: Well maybe we can OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: I think that 's a research {pause} effort in and of itself ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yeah , it would be interesting .\nPhD D: because you can read the literature , but I don't know how it 'll {pause} turn out\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: and , You know , it 's always an interesting question .\nPostdoc B: It seems like we also s with reference to a purpose , too , that we we 'd want to have them coded .\nPhD E: I would think it 's interesting , yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: That 'd be great .\n",
      "Grad A: Yep .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nPhD D: That 'd be really great .\nPostdoc B: I can do that .\nPhD D: And we 'd still have some {pause} funding for this project ,\nPhD E: uh uh\nPhD D: like probably , if we had to hire some {disfmarker} like an undergrad , because uh Don is being covered half time on something else {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean , he {disfmarker} we 're not paying him {pause} the full RA - ship for {disfmarker} all the time . So . {vocalsound} um If we got it to where we wanted {disfmarker} we needed someone to do that {disfmarker} I don't think there 's really enough data where {disfmarker} where {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm . Yeah , I see this as a prototype , to use the only the {disfmarker} the already transcribed meeting as just a prototype .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I think a a another parameter we c we {disfmarker} we can consider is eh the {pause} duration .\nPhD D: But {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Another e e m besides eh the {disfmarker} the class of overlap , the duration . Because is possible {vocalsound} eh some s s um eh some classes eh has eh {pause} a type of a duration , eh , {pause} a duration very short uh when we have {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we have overlapping with speech .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , definitely .\nPostdoc B: Yeah , maybe {disfmarker} It may be correlated . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Is possible to have . And it 's interesting , {pause} I think , {pause} to consider the {disfmarker} the window of normalization , normalization window . Eh {pause} because eh if we have a type of , {pause} a kind of eh overlap , eh backchannel overlap , with a short duration , is possible {pause} eh to normali i i that if we normalize eh with eh {pause} eh consider only the {disfmarker} the eh window eh by the left eh ri eh {pause} side on the right side overlapping with a {disfmarker} a very {pause} eh oh a small window eh the {disfmarker} if the fit of normalization is eh mmm bigger eh in that overlapping zone eh very short\n",
      "Postdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , that 's true . The window shouldn't be larger than the backchannel .\nPhD E: I {disfmarker} I me I {disfmarker} I understand . I mean that you have eh you have a backchannel , eh , eh {disfmarker} you have a overlapping zone very short\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: and you consider eh n eh all the channel to normalize this very short eh {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: for example \" mmm mm - hmm hmm \" eh And the energy is not eh height eh I think if you consider all the channel to normalize and the channel is {pause} mmm bigger {pause} eh eh eh compared with the {disfmarker} with the overlapping eh duration ,\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: eh the effect is mmm stronger eh {pause} that I {disfmarker} I mean the {disfmarker} the e effect of the normalization eh with the mean and the {disfmarker} and the variance eh is different that if you consider {pause} only a {pause} window compared eh with the n the duration of overlapping .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm . You {disfmarker} you want it around the overlapping part .\nPhD E: Not {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor C: You want it to include something that 's not in overlapping\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: but {disfmarker} but uh\nPhD E: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Is {disfmarker} s If {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Well it 's a sliding window , right ? So if you take the {disfmarker} the measure in the center of the overlapped {pause} piece , you know , there 'd better be some something .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: But if your window is really huge then yeah you 're right you won't even {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah , This is the {disfmarker} This is the {disfmarker} the idea , {vocalsound} to consider only the {disfmarker} the small window near {disfmarker} near {disfmarker} near the {disfmarker} the overlapping zone .\n",
      "PhD D: The portion of the {disfmarker} {comment} of the backchannel won't {disfmarker} won't effect anything . But you {disfmarker} Yeah . So . You know , you shouldn't be more than like {disfmarker} {pause} You should definitely not be three times as big as your {disfmarker} as your {pause} backchannel .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Then you 're gonna w have a wash . And hopefully it 's more like on the order of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: I 'm not sure that 's {pause} necessarily true .\nPhD E: Yeah ?\nPostdoc B: It is an empirical question , it seems like .\nProfessor C: Because {disfmarker} because it {disfmarker} because um again if you 're just compensating for the gain ,\nPhD D: Yea\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: you know , the fact that this {disfmarker} this gain thing was crude , and the gain wh if someone is speaking relatively at consistent level , just to {disfmarker} to give a {disfmarker} an extreme example , all you 're doing is compensating for that . And then you still s And then if you look at the frame with respect to that , it still should {disfmarker} should uh change\nPhD D: Yeah , it depends how different your normalization is , as you slide your window across .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: I mean . That 's something we don't know .\n",
      "Postdoc B: It 's possible to try it both ways ,\nGrad A: Well , I mean we 're also talking about a couple of different things .\nPostdoc B: isn't it ? in this small\nGrad A: I mean , one is your analysis window and then the other is any sort of normalization that you 're doing .\nPhD D: Yeah I was talking about the n normalization window .\nGrad A: And the {disfmarker} And they could be quite different .\nProfessor C: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: This was sort of where {disfmarker} where we were last week .\n",
      "Grad A: Yep .\nPhD D: Yeah . That 's true . Yeah .\nProfessor C: But , anyway We {disfmarker} we 'll have to look at some core things .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nPhD D: Um . But that 'd be great if {disfmarker} if you 're marking those\nPhD E: OK .\nPostdoc B: Great .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker} um .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nPhD D: But it is definitely true that we need to have the time marks ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: and I was assuming that will be inherited because , if you have the words and they 're roughly aligned in time via forced alignment or whatever we end up using , then you know , this {pause} student and I would be looking at the time marks\nPostdoc B: Yep , I agree . Mm - hmm . Coming off of the other {disfmarker}\nPhD D: and classifying all the frames inside those as whatever labels Jane gave\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Good . So , it wouldn't be {pause} I wasn't planning to label the time marks .\nPhD D: \n",
      "PhD E: I can give you my transcription file ,\nPostdoc B: I was thinking that that would come from the engineering side ,\nPhD D: I don't think you need to .\nPhD E: no ?\nPostdoc B: yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . That should be linked to the words which are linked to time somehow ,\nPostdoc B: There you go .\nGrad A: Well we 're not any time soon going to get a forced alignment .\nPhD D: right ? Not now .\nGrad A: So .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Um If it 's not hand - marked then we 're not going to get the times .\nPhD D: Well , it 's something that w Well , we {disfmarker} we wouldn't be able to do any work without a forced alignment anyway ,\nPhD E: Yes\nPhD D: so somehow if {disfmarker} once he gets going we 're gonna hafta come up with one\nProfessor C: Yes .\nPhD D: and Yeah .\nGrad A: I mean w I guess we could do a very bad one with Broadcast News .\nPostdoc B: Good . Good .\n",
      "PhD D: So whatever you would label would be attached to the words , I think .\nPostdoc B: Great ! Good , good . Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Well again for the close {pause} mike stuff , we could come up {disfmarker} take a s take the Switchboard system or something ,\nGrad A: That might be good enough . Yeah .\nProfessor C: and {disfmarker} Um\nGrad A: It 'd be worth a try . It would be interesting to see what we get .\nProfessor C: Just , you know , low - pass filter the speech and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Cuz there 's {disfmarker} there 's a lot of work you can't do without that , I mean , how {disfmarker} how would you {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: You 'd have to go in and measure every start and stop point next to a word\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc B: It would be very inefficient .\nPhD D: is y if you 're interested in anything to do with words .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So . Anyway {pause} So that 'd be great .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Good . OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: There 's something we should talk about later but maybe not just now . But , uh , should talk about our options as far as the uh uh {pause} transcription\nGrad A: Yep , if IBM doesn't {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: But . Well , w But we 'll do that later .\nPostdoc B: OK . Good .\nPhD D: Do we hafta {pause} turn {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Yeah . Let 's do that later .\nPhD D: Are we supposed to keep recording here ?\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah {vocalsound} Right .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: We 'll talk about it later .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So {vocalsound} uh Uh \" forms \" .\nGrad A: Forms Next iteration of forms .\nProfessor C: You had something on forms .\nGrad A: Oops .\nPostdoc B: Oh ! Oh good , OK .\nProfessor C: Um . Oh .\nPostdoc B: How {disfmarker} So it 's two pages per person ?\nGrad A: Nope . One 's a digit form , one 's a speaker form .\nPostdoc B: Oh !\n",
      "Grad A: So one is a one time only {pause} speaker form and the other is the digits .\nPostdoc B: Oh , I see .\nPhD E: Oh it 's the same . Oh no no . Is {disfmarker} is new Is OK .\nGrad A: So don't fill these out .\nPostdoc B: Alright .\nGrad A: This is just the suggestion for uh what the new forms would look like . So , they incorporate the changes {pause} that we talked about .\nPostdoc B: Date and time . Uh why did you switch the order of the Date and Time fields ? This is rather a low - level , but\n",
      "Grad A: On which one ?\nPostdoc B: On {disfmarker} on the new one , Time comes first and then Date , but I thought {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh you mean on the digit form ?\nPostdoc B: This is {disfmarker} this is rather a low level question , but {disfmarker} but it used {disfmarker} used to be Date came first .\nGrad A: Uh , because the user fills out the first three fields and I fill out the rest .\nPostdoc B: Oh I see .\nGrad A: So it was intentional .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Well , how would the {disfmarker} How would the user know the time if they didn't know the date ?\nGrad A: It 's an interesting observation , but it was intentional . Because the date is when you actually read the digits and the time and , excuse me , the time is when you actually read the digits , but I 'm filling out the date beforehand . If you look at the form in front of you ? that you 're going to fill out when you read the digits ? you 'll see I 've already filled in the date but not the time .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Yeah . I always assumed {disfmarker} So the time is supposed to be pretty exact , because I 've just been taking beginning time {disfmarker} time of the meeting .\nPhD D: Yeah , me too .\nGrad A: Yeah , I 've noticed that in the forms .\nPhD E: Yeah , I {disfmarker} yeah .\nGrad A: The {disfmarker} the reason I put the time in , is so that the person who 's extracting the digits , meaning me , will know where to look in the meeting , to try to find the digits .\nPhD D: \n",
      "PhD E: Me too . Oh !\nPostdoc B: Oh dear . We 've been {disfmarker} we 've been messing up your forms .\nPhD E: But {disfmarker} I am put {disfmarker} I am putting the beginning of the meeting .\nGrad A: I know .\nPhD D: So you should call it , like , \" digits start time \" . Or .\nGrad A: And I haven't said anything . Yep .\nPhD E: in {disfmarker} on there .\nProfessor C: Why {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} what were you putting in ?\n",
      "Postdoc B: Oh , well , I was saying if we started the meeting at two thirty ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I 'd put two thirty , and I guess d e everyone was putting two thirty ,\nProfessor C: Oh .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: No , it 's about fifty fifty .\nPostdoc B: and I didn't realize there was \" uh oh I 'm about to read this and I should \" {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Actually it 's about one third each . About one third of them are blank , about one third of them are when the digits are read , and about one third of them are when the {pause} meeting starts . So .\nPhD E: Oh .\nPostdoc B: This would be a radical suggestion but {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I could put instructions ? Nah .\nPostdoc B: Ei - either that or maybe you could maybe write down when people {vocalsound} start reading digits on that particular session .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: But if I 'm not at the meeting , I can't do that .\n",
      "Postdoc B: I know , OK . That 's a good point .\nProfessor C: Yeah , he 's been setting stuff up and going away . So .\nPostdoc B: I see . Good point good point .\nProfessor C: For some reason he doesn't want to sit through every meeting that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yep , but that is the reason Name , Email and Time are where they are .\nPostdoc B: Oh , OK . Alright .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I rest my {disfmarker}\nGrad A: And then the others are later on .\nProfessor C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Postdoc B: OK . w\nPhD E: And the Seat is this number ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc B: Seat and Session .\nPhD D: \" For official use only \" That 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Well , he 's very professional .\nPhD E: \" use only \"\nPostdoc B: Actually you could {disfmarker} Well that does raise another question , which is why is the \" Professional use only \" line not higher ? Why doesn't it come in at the point of Date and Seat ? Oh . Because we 're filling in other things .\nGrad A: What ?\n",
      "Professor C: What ?\nPostdoc B: Well , because {disfmarker} If y your {disfmarker} your professional use , you 're gonna already have the date , and the s\nGrad A: What {disfmarker} which form are you talking about ?\nPostdoc B: Well I 'm comparing the new one with the old one . This is the digit form .\nPhD E: Oh .\nGrad A: Oh you 're talking about the digit form .\nProfessor C: Digit . Digit form .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: The digit form doesn't {disfmarker} The digit {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc B: Oh ! I wasn't supposed to {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: No , that 's alright .\nPostdoc B: Sorry . Sorry .\nGrad A: The digit form doesn't have a \" for official use only \" line . It just has a line , {pause} which is what you 're supposed to read .\nPostdoc B: That {disfmarker} uh OK .\nGrad A: So on the digits form , everything above the line is a fill - in form\nPostdoc B: Sorry about that . Yeah .\nGrad A: and everything below the line is digits that the user reads .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Yeah . OK . Alright s but I didn't mean to derail our discussion here , so you really wanted to start with this other form .\nGrad A: No , either way is fine I just {disfmarker} You just started talking about something , and I didn't know which form you were referring to .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Alright yeah , I was comparing {disfmarker} so th this is {disfmarker} So I was looking at the change first . So it 's like we started with this and now we 've got a new version of it wi {pause} with reference to this . So the digit form , we had one already . Now the f the fields are slightly different .\nProfessor C: So the main thing that the person fills out um {pause} is the name and email and time ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor C: You do the rest ?\nPhD E: Ah !\n",
      "Grad A: Yep . Just as uh {disfmarker} as I have for all the others .\nPostdoc B: What {disfmarker} And there 's an addition of the native language , which is a bit redundant .\nProfessor C: Right .\nPostdoc B: This one has Native Language and this one does too .\nGrad A: That 's because the one , the digit form that has native language is the old form not the new form .\nPostdoc B: Oh ! Thank you . {pause} Thank you , thank you . There we go .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Oh , yeah . I 'll catch up here . OK , I see .\nProfessor C: \" South Midland , North Midland \"\nPostdoc B: That 's the old and that 's the new .\nGrad A: Yeah this was the problem with these categories , I {disfmarker} I picked those categories from TIMIT . I don't know what those are .\nPhD D: Actually , the only way I know is from working with the database and having to figure it out .\nPhD E: What {disfmarker}\nGrad A: With TIMIT , yeah ?\nPhD E: uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad A: So , I was gonna ask\nPhD E: What i\nProfessor C: So is South Midland like Kansas ?\nGrad A: wh w I mean .\nProfessor C: and North Midland like {disfmarker} like uh Illinois , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Well yeah . Nor - um {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: So {disfmarker} so what accent are we speaking ? Western ?\nProfessor C: By definition ?\nPhD E: And for simple for {disfmarker} for me ?\nProfessor C: Well ,\nPhD D: Probably Western , yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Is mean my native language Spanish {disfmarker} Spanish ? eh The original is the center of Spain and the {vocalsound} beca\nGrad A: Yeah , I mean you could call it whatever you want . For the foreign language we couldn't classify every single one . So I just left it blank and you can put whatever you want .\nPhD E: Because is different , the Span - uh {pause} the Spanish language from the {disfmarker} the north of Spain , of the south , of the west and the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Sure .\nPhD E: But .\n",
      "Grad A: So I 'm not sure what to do about the Region field for English variety . You know , when I wrote {disfmarker} I was writing those down , I was thinking , \" You know , these are great {pause} if you 're a linguist \" .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: But I don't know how to {disfmarker} I don't know how to {disfmarker} I don't know how to categorize them .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Actually even if you {vocalsound} {pause} t\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: If you 're {disfmarker} if e {vocalsound} if y\nPhD D: This wasn't developed by {disfmarker} th these regions weren't {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: if you 're a TI or MIT {vocalsound} from {vocalsound} nineteen eighty - five .\nGrad A: Yeah So I guess my only question was if {disfmarker} if you were a South Midland speaking region , person ? Would you know it ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Is that what you would call yourself ?\n",
      "PhD D: I don't know .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: You know , I think if you 're talking {disfmarker} if you 're thinking in terms of places , {pause} as opposed to {pause} names different peop names people have given to {pause} different ways of talking , {pause} I would think North Midwest , and South Midwest would be more common than saying Midland , right , I mean , I {disfmarker} I went to s\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Now {pause} the usage {disfmarker} Maybe we can give them a li {pause} like a little map ? with the regions and they just {disfmarker} No , I 'm serious .\nPostdoc B: No , that 's not bad . Yeah .\nPhD D: Because it takes less time , and it 's sort of cute\nPhD E: i at this {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in that side {disfmarker} in that side of the {disfmarker} the paper .\nPhD D: there 's no figure .\nProfessor C: Well .\n",
      "PhD D: Well just a little {disfmarker} You know , it doesn't have all the detail , but you sort of {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: But what if you moved five times and {disfmarker} and uh\nPostdoc B: Well , I was thinking you could have ma multiple ones and then the amount of time {disfmarker}\nPhD D: No , but you 're categorized . That 's the same {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc B: so , roughly . So . You could say , {pause} you know \" ten years {pause} on the east coast , five years on the west coast \" or something or other .\nGrad A: Well , We {disfmarker} I think we don't want to get that level of detail at this form . I think that 's alright if we want to follow up . But .\nProfessor C: I guess we don't really know .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean I {disfmarker} As I said , I don't think there 's a huge {pause} benefit to this region thing . It {disfmarker} it gets {disfmarker} The problem is that for some things it 's really clear and usually listening to {comment} it you can tell right away if it 's a New York or Boston accent , but New York and Boston are two {disfmarker} well , I guess they have the NYC , but New England has a bunch of very different dialects and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: and {pause} so does um S So do other places .\nGrad A: Yeah , so I picked these regions cuz we had talked about TIMIT , and those are right from TIMIT .\nPhD D: Right . And so these would be {pause} satisfying like a speech {pause} research {pause} community if we released the database ,\nGrad A: So .\nPhD D: but as to whether subjects know where they 're from , I 'm not sure because um I know that they had to fill this out for Switchboard . This is i almost exactly the same as Switchboard regions\nPostdoc B: Oh . OK .\n",
      "PhD D: or very close . Yeah . Um And I don't know how they filled that out . But th if Midland {disfmarker} Yeah , Midland is the one that 's difficult I guess .\nPostdoc B: I think a lot of people {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD D: Also Northwest you 've got Oreg - Washington and Oregon now which uh y people don't know if it 's western or northern .\nGrad A: Yeah , I certainly don't . I mean , I was saying I don't even know what I speak .\nPhD D: It 's like Northwest\n",
      "Grad A: Am I speaking {disfmarker} Am I speaking Western ?\nProfessor C: Oh , what is Northern ? Well and what {disfmarker} and what 's Northern ?\nPhD D: I think originally it was North {disfmarker} Northwest\nGrad A: Northwest ?\nPhD D: But {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yeah , so this is a real problem . I don't know what to do about it .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: I wouldn't know how to characterize mine either . And {disfmarker} and so I would think {disfmarker} I would say , I 've {disfmarker} I 've got a mix of California and Ohio .\nGrad A: I c I think at the first level , for example , we speak the same .\nPhD D: I don't know .\nGrad A: our {disfmarker} our dialects Or {pause} whatever you {disfmarker} region are the same .\nPostdoc B: Uh - huh .\nGrad A: But I don't know what it is . So .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , you have a like techno - speak accent I think .\nGrad A: a techno - speak accent ?\nPhD D: Yeah , you know ?\nPhD E: A techno\nGrad A: A {disfmarker} a geek region ?\nPhD D: Well it 's {disfmarker} I mean I {disfmarker} you can sort of identify\nPostdoc B: Geek region .\nPhD D: it f It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not that that 's {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Is different . Is different .\n",
      "PhD D: but {disfmarker} but maybe that {disfmarker} maybe we could leave this and see what people {disfmarker} See what people choose and then um let them just fill in if they don't {disfmarker} I mean I don't know what else we can do , cuz {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That 's North Midland .\nPostdoc B: I 'm wondering about a question like , \" Where are you from mostly ? \"\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: But I {disfmarker} I 'm s I 'm {disfmarker} now that you mentioned it though , I am {disfmarker} really am confused by \" Northern \" .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I agree . I agree .\nProfessor C: I really am .\nPostdoc B: I agree .\nProfessor C: I mean , if {disfmarker} if you 're {pause} in New England , that 's North .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: If you 're {disfmarker} i if you 're\nPostdoc B: Scandinavian , the Minnesota area 's north .\n",
      "Professor C: Uh yeah . That 's {disfmarker} But that 's also North Midland ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Oh , @ @ . {disfmarker} OK .\nProfessor C: right ?\nPostdoc B: \nProfessor C: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and Oregon and {disfmarker} and Oregon and Washington are {disfmarker} are Western , but they 're also Northern .\nPhD D: Yeah . Of course , that 's very different from , like , Michigan , or {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mmm .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: uh , Idaho ?\nPhD D: Well there are hardly any subjects from Idaho .\nProfessor C: Montana ?\nGrad A: No problem .\nPostdoc B: Just rule them out .\nPhD D: There 's only a few people in Idaho .\nGrad A: There are hardly any subjects from \" beep \"\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Sorry .\nProfessor C: Maybe {disfmarker} Maybe we {disfmarker} Maybe we should put a little map and say \" put an X on where you 're from \" ,\nPhD D: No , that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: And {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} in those {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah really .\nPhD D: We could ask where they 're from .\nPhD E: And if you put {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: It 'd be pretty simple , yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . But - We went back to that .\nPhD E: Yeah . If you put eh the state ?\nGrad A: Well well we sort of {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Where are you from mostly ?\n",
      "PhD D: We {disfmarker} we went {disfmarker} we went around this and then {pause} a lot of people ended up saying that it {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Uh - huh . Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: You know .\nGrad A: Well , I like the idea of asking \" what variety of English do you speak \" as opposed to where you 're from Because th if we start asking where we 're from , again you have to start saying , \" well , is that the language you speak or is that just where you 're from ? \"\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Hmm ?\n",
      "PhD D: Right . Right .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Let 's {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: I mean it gives us good information on where they 're from , but that doesn't {comment} tell us anything {disfmarker}\nGrad A: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: We could always ask them if they 're from {disfmarker}\nPhD D: well , enough about their {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean . So {disfmarker} so I would say Germany\nPhD D: like {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: You know am I speaking with German accent\nPostdoc B: Oh .\nGrad A: I don't think so .\nPostdoc B: Well , see , I 'm thinking \" Where are you from mostly \"\nPhD D: Right .\nGrad A: Oh , OK yeah .\nPostdoc B: because , you know , then you have some {disfmarker} some kind of subjective amount of time factored into it .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Yep . Yeah , I guess I could try to put {disfmarker} squeeze in a little map .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: I mean there 's not a lot of r of room\nProfessor C: I 'd say , uh , \" Boston , New York City , the South and Regular \" .\nPostdoc B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oh , I don't know .\nGrad A: I think of those , Northern is the only one that I don't even know what they 're meaning .\nPostdoc B: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um {pause} And usually here {disfmarker} people here know what is their kind of mmm lang English language ?\nProfessor C: That 's a joke . That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So let 's make it up . S I mean , who cares . Right ? We can make up our own {disfmarker} So we can say \" Northwest \" , \" Rest of West \" or something . You know . \" West \" and I mean .\n",
      "Grad A: Ye I don't think the Northwest people speak any differently than I do .\nPhD D: It doesn't even {disfmarker} Yeah , exactly . That 's not really a region .\nPostdoc B: I {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: \" Do you come from the Louisiana Purchase ? \"\nPhD D: So we could take out \" North \" {disfmarker} \" Northern \" .\nGrad A: That {disfmarker} that 's exactly what we 're arguing about .\nPhD E: eh here Is easy for people to know ?\n",
      "PhD D: That 's {disfmarker} Yeah , w It 's {disfmarker} In {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} it 's harder in America anywhere else , basically .\nGrad A: We don't know .\nPhD E: because you have {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean some of them are very obvious . If you {disfmarker} if you talk to someone speaking with Southern drawl , you know .\nPhD E: N m Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Yeah , or Boston .\nGrad A: Or Boston , yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: I can't do it , but {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Or Boston ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: And those people , if you ask them to self - identify their accent they know .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Yeah , they do .\nPhD D: They know very well .\nPostdoc B: Yeah I agree I agree . I agree .\nPhD D: They know they don't speak the same as the\nGrad A: But is Boston New England ?\nPostdoc B: And they 're proud of it .\nPhD D: day o\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , exactly .\nPostdoc B: It 's identity thing .\nPhD D: And they 're glad to tell you .\nPhD E: style .\nPhD D: Well . Depends who you ask , I suppose .\nGrad A: W {vocalsound} I guess that 's the problem with these categories .\nPhD E: \nPhD D: But that 's why they have New York City but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Well , we ca Well , why can't we just say characterize {disfmarker} something like char characterize your accent\nProfessor C: Well , Boston 's @ @ , too .\n",
      "PhD D: Or {disfmarker} \" Characterize your accent {pause} if you can . \"\nPostdoc B: and {disfmarker} and so I would say , \" I don't know \" .\nPhD D: Yeah . Right , which probably means you have a very {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: But someone from Boston with a really strong coloration would know . And so would an R - less Maine {disfmarker} or something ,\nPhD D: And that 's actually good .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: I was {disfmarker} I was thinking of something along that line\nProfessor C: How\nPostdoc B: Good .\nPhD D: because {pause} if you don't know , then , you know , ruling out the fact that you 're totally {pause} inept or something ,\nPostdoc B: Hmm .\nPhD D: if somebody doesn't know , it probably means their accent isn't very strong compared to the sort of midwest standard .\n",
      "Professor C: Well , {vocalsound} I mean , it wasn't that long ago that we had somebody here who was from Texas who was absolutely sure that he didn't have any accent left .\nPostdoc B: Hmm ?\nProfessor C: And {disfmarker} and had {disfmarker} he had a pretty {vocalsound} noticeable drawl .\nGrad A: OK , so . I propose , {pause} take out Northern add , don't know .\nPostdoc B: Oh . {pause} Yeah . I {disfmarker} I would say more {disfmarker} more sweepingly , \" how would you characterize your accent ? \"\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: So you want to change the instructions also not just say region ?\nPhD D: W\nPostdoc B: Well , I think this discussion has made me think that 's s something to consider .\n",
      "Grad A: I don't know if I {disfmarker} if I read this form , I think they 're going to ask {comment} it {disfmarker} they 're going to answer the same way if you say , \" What 's variety of English do you speak ? Region . \" as if you say \" what variety of region {disfmarker} region {comment} do you speak ? Please characterize your accent ? \" They 're going to answer the same way .\nPostdoc B: I guess {disfmarker} Well , I was not sure that {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mmm .\n",
      "Postdoc B: So . I was suggesting not having the options , just having them {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh , I see .\nPhD E: Huh .\nGrad A: Well what we talked about with that is {pause} is so that they would understand the granularity .\nPostdoc B: Yes , but if , as Liz is suggesting , people who have strong accents know that they do {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean that 's what I had before , and you told me to list the regions to list them .\nPostdoc B: and are {disfmarker} Well , I know .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Each {disfmarker} each one has pros and cons\nGrad A: So .\nProfessor C: Right .\nPostdoc B: That 's true .\nProfessor C: Right .\nPhD D: I mean we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah last week {disfmarker} last week I was sort of r arguing for having it wide open , but then everybody said \" Oh , no , but then it will be hard to interpret because some people will say Cincinnati and some will say Ohio \" .\nGrad A: I mean I had it wide open last week and {disfmarker} and you said TIMIT .\n",
      "Professor C: And .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: What if we put in both ?\nGrad A: That 's what the \" Other \" is for .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} Would people {disfmarker} No , I mean what if we put in both ways of asking them ? So . One is {pause} Region and the another one is \" if you had to characterize yourself {disfmarker} your accent , what would you say ? \"\nGrad A: Won't they answer the same thing ?\nPhD D: Well they might only answer only one of the questions but if\n",
      "Postdoc B: Yeah that 's fine .\nPhD D: You know .\nPostdoc B: They might say \" Other \" for Region because they don't know what category to use\nPhD D: Actually {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: but they might have something {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right .\nPostdoc B: because it is easier to have it open ended .\nPhD D: It just {disfmarker} And we {disfmarker} we might learn from what they say , as to which one 's a better {comment} way to ask it .\nProfessor C: W This is just a small thing\n",
      "PhD D: But {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} Cuz I really don't know . \nProfessor C: but um It says \" Variety \" and then it gives things that e have American as one of the choices . But then it says \" Region \" , but Region actually just applies to uh , US ,\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor C: right ?\nGrad A: I mean that 's why I put the \" Other \" in .\nPostdoc B: Well , we thought about it .\nProfessor C: Ah , OK .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Yeah , OK . We just {disfmarker} We sort of thought , \" yes , {disfmarker} \" y y I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: S\nPostdoc B: At the last meeting , my recollection was that {pause} we felt people would have uh less {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that there are so many types and varieties of {pause} these other languages and we are not going to have that many subjects from these different language groups\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc B: and that it 's a huge waste of {disfmarker} of space .\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: So I mean , I {disfmarker} I mean the way I had it last time {pause} was Region was blank ,\nPostdoc B: That 's what I thought .\nGrad A: it just said Region colon .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nGrad A: And {disfmarker} and I think that that 's the best way to do it ,\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nGrad A: because {disfmarker} because of the problems we 're talking about but what we said last week , was no , put in a list , so I put in a list . So should we go back to {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Maybe we can make the list a little smaller .\nGrad A: Well , certainly dropping \" Northern \" I think is right , because none of us know what that is .\nPhD D: Cuz , I mean {disfmarker} And keeping \" Other \" , and then {pause} maybe this North Midland , we call it \" North Midwest \" . South {pause} Midwest , or just {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yes I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think so . Yeah .\nPhD D: South Midwest . Does that make sense ?\nPhD E: South Midwest ?\n",
      "PhD D: That would help me {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: U unless you 're from Midland , Kansas .\nPhD D: Yeah . Cuz {disfmarker} Midland {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: But . Yeah .\nPhD D: I don't know where Midland is\nProfessor C: There 's a {disfmarker} Or Midland {disfmarker} Midland {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Is \" Midwest \" one word ?\nProfessor C: Is it Midland {disfmarker} Midland {disfmarker} Midland , Texas or Midland , Kansas ? I forget .\n",
      "PhD D: Y yeah , one w\nProfessor C: But there 's a town . in {disfmarker} in there .\nPhD D: Oh .\nProfessor C: I forget what it is @ @ .\nPostdoc B: I don't think that 's what they mean .\nPhD D: But ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: yeah . So . Kansas would be {pause} South Midland . Right ?\nProfessor C: Y yeah .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} and wouldn't {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: And Colorado , right across the border , would be {vocalsound} North Midland .\nPhD D: So , th I 'm from Kansas , actually .\nPhD E: Southern Midland . \nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: And uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Colora Oh , right . And then , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} dropping North , so it would be Western . It 's just one big shebang , where , of course , you have huge variation in dialects ,\nGrad A: But that 's true of New England too .\n",
      "Professor C: But you do in the others , too . So .\nPhD D: but {disfmarker} {comment} but so do you {disfmarker}\nGrad A: So . I mean only one {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Well , I shouldn't say that . I have no clue . I was going to say the only one that doesn't have a huge variety is New York City . But I have no idea whether it does or not .\n",
      "Postdoc B: It does seem {disfmarker} I mean . I {disfmarker} I would think that these categories would be more {disfmarker} w would be easier for an an analyst to put in rather than the subject himself .\nProfessor C: U\nGrad A: I think that {disfmarker} that was what happened with TIMIT , was that it was an analyst .\nPostdoc B: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: Wait a minute . Where does {disfmarker} Where does {disfmarker} {pause} d w Where {disfmarker} Where 's {disfmarker} where does uh {vocalsound} New {disfmarker} New York west of {disfmarker} west of uh New York City and {pause} Pennsylvania {pause} uh and uh\nPhD D: Yeah , I don't know how it came from .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nGrad A: New England\nPhD D: So . That 's New England I think .\nProfessor C: N No , it 's not .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Oh , no .\nPostdoc B: I sort of thought they were part of the {disfmarker} one of the Midlands .\nProfessor C: Oh no . No , no . {pause} No . Pennsylvania is not {disfmarker}\nGrad A: \" Other \" , it goes under \" Other \" , definitely under \" Other \" .\nPhD D: Well , you know , Pennsylvania has a pretty strong dialect and it 's totally different than {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Pennsylvania {disfmarker} Yeah . Pennsylvania is not New England . and uh New Jersey is not New England and Maryland is not New England and none of those are the South .\n",
      "Grad A: OK . So . Another suggestion . Rather than have circle fill in forms , say \" Region , open paren , E G Southern comma Western comma close paren colon . \"\nPostdoc B: Yeah . OK .\nPhD D: OK !\nPostdoc B: Fine by me , fine by me .\nProfessor C: That 's good . I like that .\nPhD D: Sure !\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: We 're all {pause} sufficiently {pause} tired of this that we 're agreeing with you .\nPhD D: Let 's just {disfmarker} And we 'll see what we get .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Be easier on the subjects . I think that 's fine . No . I think {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: So .\nPostdoc B: I like that . I like that .\nProfessor C: You like it ?\nPostdoc B: Yeah , I do .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad A: Actually , maybe we do one non - English one as well .\nProfessor C: Good .\nGrad A: Southern , Cockney ?\nPhD D: Yeah , and {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Is that a {pause} real accent ?\nPostdoc B: Sure , yeah !\n",
      "Grad A: How do you spell it ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I think that 's fine .\nProfessor C: Cockney ?\nGrad A: N E\nProfessor C: CO {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD D: You could say Liverpool .\nProfessor C: Liverpuddlian .\nPostdoc B: Yeah . Alright .\nPhD D: Actually , Liverpool doesn't l Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I 'm s I ha\nPostdoc B: Well . Well . I mean , pure {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: OK , we 'll do it that way . Actually , I like that a lot . Because that get 's at both of the things we were trying to do ,\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad A: the granularity , and the person can just self - assess and we don't have to argue about what these regions are .\nPostdoc B: That 's right . And it 's easy on the subjects .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc B: Now I have one suggestion on the next section .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc B: So you have native language , you have region , and then you have time spent in English speaking country . Now , I wonder if it might be useful to have another open field saying \" which one parenthesis S {comment} paren closed parenthesis \" . Cuz if they spent {pause} time in {disfmarker} in Britain and America {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yes .\nPostdoc B: It doesn't have to be ex all {disfmarker} at all exact , just in the same open field format that you have .\nGrad A: Yep , just which one . I think that 's fine .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Mm - hmm . with a {disfmarker} with an S\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc B: \" which one sss , {comment} optional S .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD E: \nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: We uh {disfmarker} We done ?\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc B: Yeah , that 's good .\nProfessor C: OK . um s e Any {disfmarker} any other uh open mike topics or should we go {pause} right to the digits ?\n",
      "Grad A: Um , did you guys get my email on the multitrans ? That {disfmarker} OK .\nPostdoc B: Isn't that wonderful ! Yeah .\nGrad A: Yeah . So . So . I {disfmarker} I have a version also which actually displays all the channels .\nPostdoc B: Excellent ! Thank you !\nPhD D: It 's really great .\nGrad A: But it 's hideously slow .\nPostdoc B: So you {disfmarker} this is n Dan 's patches , Dan Ellis 's patches .\n",
      "Grad A: The {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} the ones I applied , that you can actually do are Dan 's , because it doesn't slow it down .\nPhD D: M\nPostdoc B: Fantastic !\nGrad A: Just uses a lot of memory .\nPhD D: So when you say \" slow \" , does that mean to {disfmarker}\nGrad A: No , the {disfmarker} the one that 's installed is fine . It 's not slow at all . I wrote another version . Which , instead of having the one pane with the one view , It has multiple panes {pause} with the views .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: But the problem with it is the drawing of those waveforms is so slow that every time you do anything it just crawls .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: It 's really bad .\nPhD D: It 's {disfmarker} So , it {disfmarker} it 's the redrawing of the w\nPostdoc B: That 's a consideration .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: oh uh - huh , w as you move .\n",
      "Grad A: As you play , as you move , as you scroll . Just about anything , and it {disfmarker} it was so slow it was not usable . So that 's why I didn't install it and didn't pursue it .\nPostdoc B: And this 'll be a {disfmarker} hav having the multiwave will be a big help cuz {disfmarker} in terms of like disentangling overlaps and things , that 'll be a big help .\nPhD D: Oh yeah .\nGrad A: So . I think that the one Dan has is usable enough .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: It doesn't display the others . It displays just the mixed signal .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: But you can listen to any of them .\nPostdoc B: That 's excellent . He also has version control which is another nice\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: e so you {disfmarker} e the patches that you {disfmarker}\nGrad A: No , he suggested that , but he didn't {disfmarker} {pause} It 's not installed .\nPostdoc B: Oh , I thought it was in one of those patches .\nGrad A: No . No .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Oh OK . Well . Alright .\nPhD D: So is there any hope for actually displaying the wave form ?\nGrad A: Um , not if we 're going to use Tcl - TK At least not if we 're going to use Snack .\nPhD D: OK .\nGrad A: I mean you would have to do something ourselves .\nPostdoc B: Well , or use the one that crawls .\nPhD D: OK . Well , I 'm {disfmarker} I probably would be trying to use the {disfmarker} {comment} whatever 's there . And it 's useful to have the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Why don't we {disfmarker} we see how Dan 's works and if it {disfmarker} If we really need the display {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . I mean . I wonder {disfmarker} I 'm just wondering if we can display things other than the wave form . So . Suppose we have a feature {disfmarker} a feature stream . And it 's just , you know , a {disfmarker} a uni - dimensional feature , varying in time .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: And we want to plot that , instead of the whole wave form .\n",
      "Grad A: I mean .\nPhD D: That might be faster .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD D: Right ?\nGrad A: We {disfmarker} we could do that but that would mean changing the code .\nPhD D: So .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: I mean this isn't a program we wrote .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad A: This is a program that we got from someone else , and we 've done patches on .\nPhD D: OK .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: OK . Well , I 'll talk to you about it and we can see\n",
      "Grad A: So .\nProfessor C: Cou - i e I mean , y\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPhD D: but it 's definitely {pause} great to have the other one .\nProfessor C: If there was some {disfmarker} Is there some way to {pause} have someone write patches in something faster and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} link it in , or something ?\nPhD D: That 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Not easily .\nProfessor C: Or is that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: I mean y yes we could do that . You could {disfmarker} you can write widgets in C . And try to do it that way but I just don't think {disfmarker} it {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Let 's try it with Dan 's and if that isn't enough , we can do it otherwise .\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "Grad A: I think it is , cuz when I was playing with it , the mixed signal has it all in there . And so it 's really {disfmarker} It 's not too bad to find places in the {disfmarker} in the stream where things are happening .\nPhD D: OK .\nGrad A: So I {disfmarker} I don't think it 'll be bad .\nPostdoc B: And it 's also {disfmarker} also the case that {disfmarker} that uh this multi - wave thing {pause} is proposed to the {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Hmm ?\n",
      "Postdoc B: So . Dan proposed it to the Transcriber central people , and it 's likely that uh {disfmarker} So . And {disfmarker} and they responded favorably looks as though it will be incorporated in the future version .\nPhD D: Oh .\nPostdoc B: They said that the only reason they hadn't had the multi the parallel uh stream one before was simply that {pause} they hadn't had time to do it . And uh {pause} so it 's likely that this {disfmarker} this may be entered into the ch this central @ @ .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: And if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: They may well have not had much demand for it .\nPostdoc B: Well that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's true , too .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: This is a {disfmarker} {pause} a useful thing for us .\nPhD D: So . You mean they could {disfmarker} they could do it and it would be {pause} fast enough if they do it ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Depends on how much work they did .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Oh . No . I just mean {disfmarker} I just mean that it 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that his {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD E: Oh .\nPostdoc B: So . {pause} This one that we now have does have the status of {pause} potentially being incorporated l likely being incorporated into the central code .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . OK .\nPostdoc B: Now , tha Now , if we develop further then , y uh , I don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: I think if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if one of us sat down and coded it , so that it could be displayed fast enough I 'm sure they would be quite willing to incorporate it .\nPostdoc B: I mean it 's {disfmarker} I think it 's a nice feature to have it {disfmarker} set that way . Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: But it 's not a trivial task .\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nPhD D: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc B: I just like the idea of it being something that 's , you know , tied back into the original , so that other people can benefit from it .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Yeah . However . I also understand that you can have {pause} widgets that are very useful for their purpose and that you don't need to always go that w route . Yeah .\nPhD E: OK .\nGrad A: anyway , shall we do digits ?\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Let 's do digits , uh , and then we 'll turn off the mikes , and then I have one other thing to discuss .\n",
      "Postdoc B: OK .\nGrad A: OK .\nPhD D: I actually have to leave . So . Um . I mean {pause} I had to leave at three thirty ,\nPostdoc B: Uh - oh .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor C: Oh .\nPhD D: so I can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Well , I can wait {pause} for the digits but I can't stay for the discussion\nGrad A: Well , you want to go first ? Or .\nPhD D: I c {pause} I have to make a call .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD D: So .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Well , should we {disfmarker} e should we switch off the g\nProfessor C: Well , we 'll talk to you about it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh\nGrad A: Do you wanna go do digits or do you wanna just skip digits ?\nPhD D: Um . No , I can do digits if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} But I don't wanna butt in , or something .\nGrad A: Then {disfmarker} Alright . You go ahead .\n",
      "PhD D: But if there 's something on the rest of the {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'll be around just have to make call before quarter of . So .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So I {disfmarker} Or we can talk about it .\nPostdoc B: Ke\nGrad A: Why don't you read the digits ?\nProfessor C: Yeah , why don't you read the digits and then you can {pause} go .\nPhD D: OK . {vocalsound} Alright . Oh , this is the new one .\n"
    ],
    "length": 22786,
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  },
  {
    "id": 49,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting between the Children, Young People and Education Committee and the Welsh Government was considered as an evidence session to the continuation of the inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes. The meeting started by discussing thoroughly about the use of pupil development grant funding in different sectors and the meeting believed that PDG would largely cover each aspect of students' rights and support the school services at the same time. Later, the meeting also agreed about the PDG's contribution to special kids and more able and talented streams. The meeting also talked about changes in key positions to ensure smooth adoption of the new curriculum. In the end, several issues regarding different phases of education and connection between different sectors were brought up and currently, they would work out the final stage.",
    "docs": [
      "Sian Thomas: Bore da. Unfortunately, the Chair, Lynne Neagle, is unable to attend today's meeting. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 17.22, I call for nominations for a temporary Chair, for the duration of the meeting.\nJulie Morgan AM: I nominate John Griffiths.\nSian Thomas: Any further nominations? I therefore declare that John Griffiths has been appointed temporary Chair, and I invite him to chair for the duration of today's meeting.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Thank you very much. I thank the Members for that. Welcome, everyone, to this meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. The first item on our agenda today is apologies, substitutions, declarations of interest. Obviously, Lynne Neagle isn't able to be with us today. We haven't received any other apologies. Are there any declarations of interest? No. We will move on then to item 2 on our agenda, the continuation of our inquiry into targeted funding to improve educational outcomes, and evidence session 8. And I'm very pleased to welcome Estyn here this morning to give evidence to the committee. Would you like to introduce yourselves for the record, please?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Meilyr Rowlands, chief inspector.\nClaire Morgan: Claire Morgan, strategic director.\nSimon Brown: Simon Brown, strategic director.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Thank you. And welcome again. If it's okay, we'll move straight into questions\u2014we have quite a number of questions to get through this morning. Firstly, Llyr.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you, Chair, and good morning. I just want to start by asking about your perception of how schools are using the pupil development grant funding, and to what extent they are genuinely targeting that funding exclusively towards children eligible for free school meals.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Thank you for the question. This grant has been targeted far better by now than it was originally. Estyn has made several reports regarding the effectiveness of the grant, and, really, going back to before this specific grant, to a similar grant, called RAISE. At the start of this grant, the funding was often spent on tackling underachievement, rather than dealing with the underachievement of children who are eligible for free school meals specifically. But, over a period of time, we have seen that it is targeted much better by now. That's not to say that the targeting is working perfectly still, and I think that we are seeing examples where the targeting isn't going just to children who receive free school meals. Schools sometimes interpret poverty in a slightly wider way than that. In terms of what schools are doing with the grant, we have given evidence to you of the kinds of things that they are doing. They are tracking progress of pupils, they are trying to improve attendance, they are trying to work with families and the community in general, they're doing work specifically to improve how\u00a0children are doing in exams, in key stage 4, specifically\u2014a lot of funding is being spent on that\u2014improving the confidence of students, taking students on extra-curricular activities, improving literacy and numeracy. Those are the kinds of activities they're being used for.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Because the research by Ipsos MORI and the Wales Institute of Social and Economic Research, Data and Methods has shown that there is some kind of blurring\u2014I think that's the term that they use\u2014in terms of who is eligible. But you are relatively comfortable with the fact that there is sufficient targeting happening. You referred to the fact that it is used, perhaps, to reach a slightly wider cohort than just those who are eligible for free school meals, but you do feel that that balance, from your experience, is acceptable.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, certainly, it has improved a great deal. When I was looking at this initially, the targeting wasn\u2019t happening at all. It was being spent on children who were underachieving, and one of the things that we did notice in the first report was that much more funding was being spent on boys than girls. And, of course, that raised the question immediately that it wasn't being spent then on children who are eligible for free school meals, because those\u00a0numbers are equal. So, it wasn\u2019t, but it has improved. There is a discussion about who exactly should have it and whether free school meals is the best definition. So, I think that schools are perhaps not following that exactly, but within the spirit of the grant, I think I\u2019m fairly comfortable. There is a specific question\u2014I don\u2019t know if you are going to ask this\u2014regarding more able and talented pupils.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: That's where I was going next.\nMeilyr Rowlands: So, if there is a cohort of pupils who are missing out on this, they are the more able and talented pupils who receive free school meals. There are a number of reasons for this, I think. One of them is that there\u2019s still some feeling that less able children should be receiving this grant, children who are underachieving. Schools don\u2019t always identify underachievement of those more able children. It seems that they are doing okay, but if they were given more support, they would do even better.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, is it a lack of awareness of the nature of the grant, and that the individual has to be targeted rather than just those who are underachieving? Is that the problem? Or is it the regime that focuses on exam results and the need to draw those pupils who are underachieving up, rather than incentivising those who are achieving\u00a0to achieve better?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: A bit of both, I'd say. And the third factor is identifying children who are more able. I think that we have a bit of work to do in that regard. I was in a conference for headteachers last week, where there was new data being discussed, and that data showed the progress of children from a certain point, year 6 tests. I think that kind of data will be very useful, because what that data can do is help secondary schools to identify\u00a0more able children and that they are underachieving. Even though they're doing quite well, that kind of value-added data is very useful. So, I think that that will help as well.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Mark, did you want to pursue these matters further?\nMark Reckless AM: Yes. I just wanted to ask about the more able and talented stream. It was good to read in your report an increased emphasis on this and to see your awareness of its importance in the PDG as well. Can I just ask\u2014? Would you look at one area regarding\u00a0schools' engagement with the Seren network, particularly\u00a0for the more able and talented, and what more Estyn can do through its inspection criteria and otherwise to encourage this from schools?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, I think Estyn has always been very strongly focused on improving the performance of more able pupils. For example, in last year's annual report I raised it, and a lot of the debate around this now, I think, was generated by some of the things I've said in previous annual reports. We gave a lot of evidence to the\u2014. Paul Flynn, I think, did the\u2014no, who did the report? Paul Murphy did the report. So, we gave evidence to that. And on Seren, I'm particularly proud that my alma mater, Jesus College, is a very strong supporter of the Seren work. So, I'm personally quite interested in the work of Seren. And we look at the performance of more able pupils in all our inspections.\u00a0It's a particular part\u00a0of our inspection framework\u2014looking at the relative performance of different groups. So, we look at the different performance of boys and girls, free school meals and non-free school meals, ethnic minorities, but we also look at the performance\u00a0of more able pupils in particular, and we question schools about how they provide for the more able pupils, and we've referred to Seren in several of our inspection reports.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: And where schools work particularly hard to engage with Seren and take up opportunities from that and push as many pupils as appropriate to work with that, is that something that you would recognise within your inspection reports? And, on the other side, where schools\u00a0don't do that, is that something you would\u00a0pull them up on?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Yes, we've done that. We've done it in several reports.\n",
      "Claire Morgan: Throughout our inspections, we are looking for best practice, because part of our strategy is always to identify where there are weaknesses, but actually to point schools in the direction of where they can find a solution. So, capturing different approaches to more able and talented is part of the role of inspection.\nMark Reckless AM: Thank you.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Just briefly, you touched earlier on using the measure of those who are eligible for free school meals as a way to identify children from disadvantaged backgrounds so that you can target this funding. Varied evidence has been given to us on this. Do you have an opinion on whether that's the best way?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: It certainly is a good way of doing it. There is a strong correlation between children who underachieve and that measure, so it is a strong measure. But, there is scope to discuss how exactly it does work. For example, some people say that if you have received free school meals for a period of time and now you're not receiving them, then perhaps you should still be receiving the\u00a0funding for a period of time, for example. So, there are ways of fine-tuning\u00a0that measure, I think. It's worth considering those approaches.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Thanks for that. We move on now to Michelle.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: Thank you. Good morning, everyone. You've reported that the proportion of schools making effective\u00a0use of the PDG remains around two thirds of secondary and primary schools, meaning that a third are still not using that PDG effectively. Why do you think this is?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think that sort of proportion broadly corresponds to the schools that don't have particularly good leadership. I think, ultimately, all of these sorts of initiatives come down to strong leadership and effective leadership\u2014that they know how to organise and use those grants effectively. One of the shortcomings that we often identify is evaluation\u2014that money has been spent on a particular way of using the grant, but it has not been evaluated well. So, I think quite a lot of it is to do with generic leadership skills. But those are some of the specific shortcomings to do with evaluation.\nMichelle Brown AM: Are there any patterns by region or type of school in that?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I don't think there's any patterns that we've identified in terms of region.\nClaire Morgan: As Meilyr said, it's very strongly linked to leadership capacity.\nMichelle Brown AM: Okay. Thank you. What are the most effective uses of PDG, from your point of view? Is there something in particular that you think that schools should be focusing on?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think there's a lot of evidence on what constitutes good practice in this area. There's the Welsh Government guidance, there's our guidance, there's a lot of research\u2014the Sutton Trust toolkit\u2014and they're the sorts of things I mentioned earlier. I think that more attention does need to be given to the community-focused element of this work. So, schools do a lot of things\u00a0that they are in control of\u2014the things I mentioned earlier: things like improving attendance, offering extra-curricular activities, literacy and numeracy support, tracking pupils\u2014all those sorts of things. But an important element of this, I think, is engaging with the learners, but also with parents and the community. I think what we've found is that the most effective schools\u2014the ones that really do make a big difference to this cohort of students\u2014are the ones that do that most effectively.\n",
      "Claire Morgan: I think that there are different situations in different schools, but in the best schools, they evaluate the barriers to learning for their particular children. Often we see that engagement with communities is part of that engagement with families. In Brackla Primary School, in Bridgend, they've got Families at Brackla, and it's a range of activities to engage with families. Families often have had a negative experience of education themselves, and the schools are trying to address some of those concerns. Cefn Hengoed\u00a0in Swansea, which I'm sure many of you know about, have had an extensive strategy for engaging with the community, with the families, and equipping their children to participate in decisions around the curriculum, making them more confident learners. So, it is about removing the barriers for disadvantaged learners.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: Thank you. You've made the comment that secondary schools are focusing too much on key stage 4 and not enough on developing pupils' skills in a sustainable way. Can you expand on that and give us a bit more detail on that, please?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think this is sort of generally accepted now. The latest guidance on the grant now says that 60 per cent of it should be spent on key stage 3. I think that acknowledges this general point. But what a lot of schools did with this money was precisely that, to target key stage 4\u2014to have catch-up homework clubs, revision clubs, specifically to get children better GCSE results, and getting C grades, in particular. Of course, that is an important part of your armoury of tools to use, but I think there was too much use of that. Part of the problem with that is that it doesn't either develop the long-term transferable skills that those pupils have, or should have, nor does it produce the kinds of skills that the teachers need as well. So, it's kind of a quick win, a quick-fix solution, while what we feel would be more effective in the long term, and more sustainable in the long term\u2014because if this money goes, then those quick fixes won't be possible\u2014what would be more effective in the long term is to improve the curriculum and the pedagogy, the quality of the teaching, the quality of the curriculum, so that children are naturally enthused by what is on offer, that they attend better because they want to be in school, that they want to learn. So, we feel that getting the curriculum right, tailoring the curriculum to the needs of the pupils in that area, and improving teaching, is a more sustainable long-term solution.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: Do you think there's anything in particular driving the focus on the key stage 4?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Well, again, I think most people would say it is the performance indicators. I think there's a general acknowledgement of that. Again, I said last week\u2014. There was a conference of all the secondary heads in Wales, and that was one of the major discussion points in the conference: how do we get the performance indicators right so that there are no perverse incentives in it?\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: To what extent are decisions being made in schools concerning the application of the PDG\u00a0actually evidence-based? To what extent are they using research to back up how they're using the PDG or is it effectively just guesswork?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think that, of all the areas of school policy, this is the one that's most evidence-based. I think that, generally, schools can do much more about using evidence and research findings, but this particular area is probably the one that schools are strongest at using research in. That's partly because the guidance strongly suggests that you should do that, but also because there is a lot of easily accessible research evidence available. So, there's a lot of research on this. As I mentioned earlier, the Sutton Trust toolkit is a good example where researchers have really tried very hard to simplify all the evidence that exists in a way that schools can use. So, there are little pound signs to show how costly an intervention is and little stars or something to show how many months of gain pupils get out of this particular intervention. So, it makes it much easier for schools to make a decision. But I think what's missing is that you can't just take that evidence as it is, because you have to implement it in your own school, and that then will affect how effective that particular intervention is. Just because it is evaluated by researchers as being generally very effective doesn't mean that you will necessarily implement it effectively. So, it is therefore important that each school does evaluate. So, there are kind of two sides to using research. There's looking at research, but there's also doing your own research and evaluating how effectively\u00a0you have implemented something. I think that's been a weakness.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: Thank you.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Hefin David.\nHefin David AM: Do you think there's an attendance crisis at key stage 4 for those students eligible for free school meals?\nMeilyr Rowlands: 'Crisis' is maybe too strong a word, but I think there's been a lot of attention given to attendance, quite rightly. Over a long period of time, I was a member of the\u00a0national behaviour and attendance review board under Ken Reid about 10 years ago.\u00a0So, there's been a lot of attention on attendance, and that's very important because attendance has a very strong correlation with outcomes.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Of those students at key stage 4, 35\u00a0per cent of those eligible for free school meals are attending for 95\u00a0per cent of the time, whereas it's 60 per cent for\u00a0their peers.\u00a0Is the PDG making an impact on that? You've mentioned engagement with the curriculum. What more can be done?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think what's happening now is that people are targeting their attention on attendance. Attendance\u00a0has improved in primary and in secondary generally. It has also improved for these cohorts as well, and at a faster rate than the rest of the cohort. So, there have been improvements. Nevertheless, I agree with you totally that it is a major, major problem, and that is why schools\u00a0do use the PDG specifically to improve attendance.\nHefin David AM: But you said they've not used it well enough.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Did I say that? They are using it, and attendance has improved, and the attendance of this cohort has improved more, but there's still a major, major problem. So, I think there needs to be even more attention\u2014\nHefin David AM: So, what\u2014? I'm looking for\u00a0specifics. What can be done\u00a0with the PDG?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think, as I said earlier, that these are major social issues. So, I think what can be done that hasn't been done currently is to give more attention to the community-focused side of schooling. I think the schools that have done well, that have really improved attendance of this particular group of pupils, are the ones\u00a0that have taken community relationships very, very seriously and worked with parents.\nHefin David AM: Yes, you mentioned working with families when you were answering Llyr.\u00a0How does that happen, though? What does it look like? If I'm a parent, what does it look like?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Okay. I'll ask Claire to give you an example. Cefn Hengoed is a good example of a school\u00a0that has not cracked it but made a lot of progress.\nClaire Morgan: Often, in the best schools, the headteachers consider themselves to be community leaders as well as headteachers, and they often set up arrangements where they engage directly with the families of disadvantaged children or children who are underachieving generally. They try to build very strong relationships with the families so that the school is in a position to either\u00a0liaise with different agencies or to bring agencies into the school to address some of the issues that are outside school control.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: And where does the PDG come into this, and the use of it?\nClaire Morgan: This sometimes is used for appointing staff whose role it is to facilitate these arrangements to give one-to-one support to children, to monitor attendance, to visit homes where children are not coming into schools, to try and address what the barriers are in getting them into classrooms.\nHefin David AM: And those lessons you've learned from Cefn Hengoed: how are you going to spread that? How does that get spread?\n",
      "Claire Morgan: Well, we've done it in a number of ways. Obviously, the first thing we do is the inspection report, and we highlight the practice there. We also have things\u2014. This is an example of our best-practice case studies. We also have conferences as well, where we invite the headteachers from those schools to come and present to other headteachers. We also tweet, use social media, to try and get the message out there. But there's also\u2014\nHefin David AM: This all seems like stuff that's done to teachers. It doesn't seem very engaging.\n",
      "Claire Morgan: Well, it is\u2014. Headteachers tell us that learning about best practice from other headteachers is very, very useful. When we had a conference, and when we looked at leadership and improving schools, Cefn Hengoed, along with a number of other schools, presented, and we had\u00a0very positive feedback from that. So, it is actually schools learning from other schools, and I think the work that the consortia have been doing on school-to-school support as well can contribute to it.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: We're spreading the PDG very thinly now, if we're talking about attendance, and then we talk about exclusion as well. Is it possible that it can have an impact on reducing the higher exclusion rates for EFSM students?\nClaire Morgan: I think it has the potential to. I think all these strategies have a potential to remove those barriers. But this is\u2014\nHefin David AM: It doesn't sound very convincing.\nClaire Morgan: But it is a difficult challenge for schools. These are often complex issues that schools are grappling with, and they are trying a variety of approaches.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. I'm not being overly critical, but it does seem very hit and miss, to me. Some of the answers that you're giving\u2014they seem to be giving certain examples, but there doesn't seem to be a coherence to it.\nClaire Morgan: I think it comes back to leadership. Where we have very strong strategic leadership in schools, they are more direct in their approach, and they have a very strong strategy. Where there's weaker leadership, sometimes they are trying different things, perhaps in more of a scattergun approach, rather than trying strategies, evaluating and finding out what works. There is an element of the impact of leadership there.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay, Hefin? Okay.\nMeilyr Rowlands: I think it is true to say that it's difficult to distinguish what some of these better schools do with PDG, as opposed to their general money. If that's what you're getting at, I would totally agree. Schools like Cefn Hengoed will be using more than just the PDG to do this work.\nHefin David AM: And it appears to be a lot about the way things are done, as much as how the money is spent.\nMeilyr Rowlands: Absolutely.\n",
      "Claire Morgan: It is to do with the ethos and the culture of the school.\nHefin David AM: Okay.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay, thanks for that.\u00a0We have further questions from Michelle.\nMichelle Brown AM: Thank you, Chair. You've observed that the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those who aren't on free school meals hasn't closed significantly at any stage of learning. Is the PDG actually working?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, I'm in danger of repeating myself now. It's quite difficult to identify the cause and the effect in terms of the PDG. So, where there have been improvements, it's quite difficult to say, 'Well, that's definitely down to the PDG', and similarly vice versa: if it's not working, it's difficult to say that it's because of PDG not being used properly.\u00a0To come back to something else I said previously, there have been small improvements. Whether you say that that is due to PDG or not is quite difficult, but there have been some improvements. But there hasn't been a major step change in closing that gap, that is true, and I think the conclusion that I draw is that these are major societal challenges and barriers that these young people face. Schools can do a certain amount, and of course they must do a certain amount, but to have a step change you do need to engage with the learners, with the parents and with the community and that's why the more successful schools do actually succeed\u2014it's because they do that. So, I think more of a push on that area at a national level would be welcome.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: In most successful schools, how much is the attainment gap being narrowed, in the schools that make the most effective use of PDG?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Well, that would vary from school to school. We can look up specific examples for you of specific schools if you like.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Yes, perhaps you could provide a note to the committee on that.\nMeilyr Rowlands: Yes, I could have a list of schools and how much they've closed, perhaps.\nMichelle Brown AM: Okay, I'll move on.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Perhaps you could include in that what you would consider to be a significant increase.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Okay. Fine.\nMichelle Brown AM: Thank you. In 2017, we saw a re-widening of the attainment gap between pupils on free school meals and those not on free school meals. What effect do you think the Welsh Government's changes to performance measures have had in terms of impact?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, they definitely had a direct impact on it, and probably there might well be an indirect, longer-term impact as well. But, clearly, changing the performance indicators had a direct, immediate effect, because some of those examinations, qualifications, courses that were typically followed by this cohort of students weren't any longer part of the headline performance indicators. So, you've all heard about BTEC Science and the key skills qualifications. Those sorts of things that many of these pupils used to succeed at, and therefore get the performance indicator for the school, no longer count. So, it's had a direct impact, and it's one of the reasons why it's quite difficult to compare the results of one year and another, because of these changes in performance indicators.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: Yes, that makes sense. Do you think there hasn't been any\u2014? Can we take it from what you've said that there's been a positive improvement, or has it been negative?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think there's a growing realisation that secondary schools,\u00a0key stage 4, is driven overly by performance indicators, and, whatever performance indicator you come up with, there will be unintended consequences. So, it's not, I think, useful to keep changing the performance indicators and think that you will get to a point where you solve the problem. That's not likely to happen. What needs to be done is to have a different approach to accountability that doesn't put so much attention on these performance indicators, because what you're doing is you're just moving the problem around by changing the performance indicators. Some of these vocational courses that I mentioned are a good example of this. So, I think the previous performance indicators encouraged schools to enter, for example, whole cohorts to do BTEC science, and that's not a good idea because the GCSE sciences are better\u00a0preparation to go on to A-level science, for example. So, you're cutting out the possibility of progression for those pupils.\u00a0On the other hand, by discouraging\u2014the new performance indicators discourage BTEC and now people are saying, 'We're not offering BTEC at all', and it is suitable for a certain cohort of pupils. So, it's very difficult to get the performance indicators absolutely right if you put so much pressure on schools to actually achieve those performance indicators.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Michelle, I'd just like to bring in Darren at this point.\nDarren Millar AM: I share some of your concern around the unavailability now of BTEC in some schools. It strikes me that the decision to discourage the availability of BTEC, which is what the performance measures do, really is sending a message about vocational qualifications that is not helpful, actually, to many young people for whom vocational qualifications may be perfectly suitable. Is that something with which you concur?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think it's one of the unintended consequences, and what I'm trying to say is that, almost inevitably, there will be unintended consequences. So, you can sympathise with the original decision to change the performance indicators in such a way that it encouraged more pupils to do GCSEs, for example, but it does have that unintended consequence. In theory, there's nothing stopping a school entering pupils now for those qualifications.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Michelle, we need to move on at this stage, so we'll move on Julie Morgan.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Yes, thank you very much. I wanted to ask you about looked-after children and adopted children, and how effective the PDG has been for those groups of children. So, to begin with, how well do the schools know that the PDG does exist for looked-after children and adopted children?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think what we found\u2014we did a review of looked-after children fairly recently, and we found there was some confusion about where the grant was, who had the grant and how it was spent, and what the priorities of regional consortia were, because I think the grant goes to regional consortia now. I think previously it went to local authorities. So, I think schools aren't quite sure about how it's spent and what the priorities are.\n",
      "Claire Morgan: I think we've seen a bit of improvement there. Meilyr was right; there was a lack of clarity. Schools weren't always aware of the grant and the possibility\u00a0of using it to support those learners. But the consortia are now using the grant, and there's some training being offered to schools around emotional behaviour and attachment training. There's some school-to-school work that is now being funded by the grant to share best practice, and there are some individual bursaries to support the work. So, from quite a concern, some action now is appearing to be done.\n",
      "Simon Brown: And on other developments, regional consortia, they've have appointed regional LAC co-ordinators, which has been helpful\u2014\nJulie Morgan AM: For these particular groups?\n",
      "Simon Brown: Yes. It has happened since July 2016 and they're now in post and beginning to work. And, as Claire said\u2014she gave some of the spend that the regional consortia are using, targeted spending. It's an improving area of regional consortia's work. They are improving their tracking of looked-after children. There's an issue about adopted children, I think, because, currently, the pupil-level annual school census data doesn't differentiate whether children are adopted or not. So, they're\u00a0more difficult to track. But looked-after children are being tracked by the consortia. So, it's an improving area, as Claire mentioned.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Could you give some examples of some work that's been done with looked-after children that you feel has been effective?\nClaire Morgan: I think we'd probably need to go away and get that from our evidence base. That would be helpful.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: That would be great if you could do that and send something in to us. I've mentioned before in this context that this\u00a0previous committee, in the previous Assembly, did an inquiry into adopted children, where we met with a lot of adoptive parents. And one of the big issues that did come out was the fact that there was a great deal of concern about some of the insensitivities in the schools in dealing with adopted children, asking\u00a0for pictures of when the children were born and things like that that didn't show a degree of sensitivity. Do you feel that those sorts of issues are being addressed on a wider basis now, and are they being addressed through this grant, through the PDG grant?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: We probably do need to come back to you with some more evidence on this. This\u00a0is certainly\u00a0on our radar. We've got two pieces of work currently that we're doing, which\u00a0will give a little bit more evidence on this. We're doing a piece of work on managed moves and I think that will be helpful\u00a0because a lot of these pupils are subject to managed moves, and that's the sort of thing we'll be looking at in that report: what information is transferred from one organisation and from one school to another. I think that generally hasn't been very\u00a0helpful, and there\u00a0isn't necessarily a good system for exchanging particularly their educational needs\u2014some of the basic things about their date of birth and whatever are transferred, but their educational needs, when children move from one school to\u00a0another. So, we've got a report coming out on that.\u00a0The other piece of work we've been doing is on children who have had adverse experiences in their childhood and how schools deal with those traumatic backgrounds.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: That would, of course, be much wider than looked-after and adopted children.\nMeilyr Rowlands: It is wider. It is wider. That is wider. But, if you don't mind, we'll try and get you something\u00a0specifically on\u2014\nJulie Morgan AM: If you could, because there does generally seem to be a lack of knowledge\u00a0about how effective this\u00a0work is with looked-after and adopted children. You don't have any information about exclusion rates, for example, with\u00a0looked-after children, and the\u00a0way this grant has been used to address those sorts of issues?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think there is some data available. I don't think exclusions have gone down particularly for that group more than any other group. But\u00a0there has to be quite a bit of caution used with data on exclusions. The Welsh Government's statistics on that come with\u00a0a big cautionary note, because that data is subject to a lot of variation\u2014exactly\u00a0what you're talking about, I think: different counties and different\u00a0authorities do things differently. And I think the work we're doing on managed moves is very pertinent to that because managed moves don't count as part of the exclusion. So, the exclusion rates will differ from area to area, depending on the policy on managed moves.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Right. And what about attendance? Anything\u00a0about attendance with looked-after children? Any evidence of\u2014\nMeilyr Rowlands: I'll have to look that up as well I think.\nJulie Morgan AM: I think, Chair, if we can have some more information on all of this, it would be great.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay, yes, we'll look forward to receiving that further information from you. Mark.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Could I just ask a follow-up to a response that we had last week when we had the EAS consortium in, amongst others? They told us that the specific grant\u2014the pupil deprivation grant\u2014principally for looked-after children, they were\u00a0responsible for, and that\u00a0certainly the vast bulk of\u00a0that was spent on a specific programme, aimed not at\u00a0LACs specifically, but at all children considered vulnerable at times of transition,\u00a0particularly into year 7. Does that\u00a0strike you as an appropriate use of that grant?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think transition is appropriate\u2014that's quite sensible, but clearly if the grant is for looked-after children, it\u00a0should be spent on looked-after children.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Are there any other comments on that approach? I think, to take up what EAS has said, there were\u00a0difficulties about having\u00a0particular programmes aimed specifically at individual looked-after children, and it was felt that\u00a0they would benefit vulnerable children, who had more transitions between schools\u00a0perhaps than others. Is that a sufficient link to justify how that grant is spent? I think this is\u00a0really in the wider context of how much schools need to make sure this grant goes towards the\u00a0group it's specified for, and to what extent it is acceptable to blur the boundaries of that and\u00a0perhaps this is just an example of a higher degree of blurring than some others.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I don't know enough\u00a0about this particular initiative to comment, but I would have thought that looked-after children is a very small group and if you were to blur it that much, then it\u00a0wouldn't be very targeted. I would have thought that if the grant is\u00a0specifically for looked-after children, it\u00a0should be more targeted, but I don't know the details.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Just following up on\u00a0another point, I think you said that the 'PLASS' data\u2014. I apologise that I'm not familiar with the abbreviation, but could you explain if anything was being done to address\u00a0previously looked-after\u00a0children who are now\u00a0adopted and seeking to ensure that they are measured to that data to allow proper tracking. Is that work that's in hand, do you know? Could you just clarify for me the 'PLASS' description and what information system that that refers to?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: That's the information that schools give formally to Welsh\u00a0Government and every so often, the data that is collected\u00a0formally by Welsh\u00a0Government is improved and expanded. Exclusions is a good example. Previously, exclusions weren't collected through PLASC\u2014the pupil level annual school census\u2014and so we\u00a0had no proper data at all on exclusions. Now that's been improved, but I'm afraid I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Well, I think what you were referring to\u2014. I think you were saying that previously looked-after children who are now adopted, unlike looked-after children, that wasn't tracked by the PLASC data.\nSimon Brown: That's our understanding. Looked-after children are differentiated, but whether they're adopted or not\u2014whether any\u00a0children are adopted\u2014isn't picked up in the data at the moment.\nMark Reckless AM: But I think for the grant, it's\u00a0previously looked-after children who\u00a0have since been adopted rather than all\u00a0adopted children, isn't it?\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Again,\u00a0perhaps you could clarify that for us\u00a0in the further information that you will provide.\nMeilyr Rowlands: Although, you'd probably be better off asking the Welsh Government directly.\nMark Reckless AM: Yes, I agree\u2014I think that would be better, but\u00a0just to\u00a0clarify finally from me, Chair: is your point that, if that\u00a0group isn't measured, then it is difficult to target them with this grant,\u00a0and if we want them to be targeted with this grant, we\u00a0should ensure that they're tracked through that data system?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Yes, that sounds sensible.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Mark, I think you have some further questions on Schools Challenge Cymru.\nMark Reckless AM: Yes. Did you\u00a0consider that the Schools Challenge Cymru programme was a success?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: It was certainly variable. It lasted for a relatively short period of time, so it's quite difficult to be definitive about the evaluation of it, but it was certainly variable. It varied from school to school. Some were very successful, some didn't make as much improvement. If it had lasted longer, maybe it would have made a difference. Overall, the data made\u2014. There were improvements overall for the 40 schools over and above the general improvement that there was for all schools in Wales. So, you could say\u00a0that\u00a0it was successful in that respect. So, it's quite difficult to say whether it was successful, because that was a fairly limited improvement for quite a lot of money. It is, you know, quite a difficult judgment to say whether it was successful or not overall. What strikes one, I think, was the variability in the success of it, and I think that was clear also at an operational level. It was clearly more successful in certain areas where all the various people involved in the work worked together effectively. So, the challenge adviser and the local authority and the regional consortia were all working effectively together. And, in other cases, they weren't, and there had to be changes in personnel and that sort of thing. So, it was quite variable.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Of the five schools within the programme that Estyn actually inspected in the last year of the programme,\u00a0I think that three of those were in special measures and two required significant improvement. Doesn't that suggest that, as far as Estyn engaged with the programme, your evidence was not to suggest that it was being successful?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Not wildly successful, certainly, but many of these schools would have been in those sorts of categories in the past as well. So, it's not very surprising that many of them still remained. So, it wasn't a huge success, clearly. As you say, many of these schools are still struggling schools, so\u00a0it hasn't been a panacea.\nMark Reckless AM: Bearing in mind your remarks earlier over the focus on key stage 4, in particular\u00a0the C to D grade\u00a0boundary, what sort of minimum length of time should a programme like this run for if we are to expect success?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: That's a hugely difficult question to answer, and it is at the core of whether this initiative was successful. There has been research, and people have looked at things like the City Challenge and have suggested that two or three years is too short a period to make a proper evaluation of how successful those particular initiatives were. I don't know of similar evaluations to that particular point in Wales for the Schools Challenge Cymru, but with similar initiatives in England,\u00a0the suggestion has been that you need at least three years to be able to evaluate it properly.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: The Schools Challenge Cymru advisers, I understand that Estyn met with those termly through the programme. Can you explain how useful that engagement was, and also perhaps compare or contrast it to the ongoing engagement you\u00a0have with the advisers from the regional consortia?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: You know, the engagement we had with local authorities, and regional consortia, and with Schools Challenge Cymru advisers\u00a0was not really a problem for us. That was fine. I think the engagement with each other was more of the issue, really. I think the challenge for Schools Challenge Cymru was that it was introduced at a time when regional consortia were just beginning.\u00a0So, you had a period of time when it wasn't entirely clear what the responsibilities of regional consortia were, compared\u00a0with local authorities. That has developed and\u00a0clarified over time, but at that time it wasn't entirely clear. Plus, you were bringing in another player to the school improvement landscape. When all of those different agencies worked well together, then that was a positive\u00a0thing for schools. When they were all saying the same thing, having that extra resource, extra money, extra attention, was a positive\u00a0thing; but, clearly, in some cases, that relationship\u00a0didn't always work, and some schools felt that they were being told different\u00a0things by different agencies. Clearly, that\u00a0was one of the reasons why\u00a0that wasn't\u00a0as successful.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: So, is Welsh Government now trying to do, through the regional\u00a0consortia, what it was then trying to do through Schools Challenge Cymru?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, what you had then was you had all three: you had local authorities\u00a0and regional consortia and Schools Challenge Cymru. So, what you have now is a clearer demarcation\u00a0of who does what. I don't think\u00a0what Welsh Government\u00a0are doing now is the same as what they were trying to do in Schools Challenge Cymru, because\u00a0I think what Schools Challenge Cymru did, and did well, I think, was identify that there are a small number of secondary schools that have particular challenges and they need over and above the normal local authority/regional consortia\u00a0support, they need over and above that a certain quantum of support and resource. I think that's specifically what Schools\u00a0Challenge Cymru was trying to do, and that's not quite the same as what the more universal provision of regional consortia is.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay, that's all we have time for in this session, I'm afraid. There are some questions that we haven't reached that we'll write to you on to obtain further responses, and there are some matters that you've identified where you need to provide us with further\u00a0information also. May I thank you very much for coming along this morning to give evidence? You will be sent a transcript to check for factual\u00a0accuracy in the usual\u00a0way. Thank you very much. The committee\u00a0will now break for just over six minutes until 11:30. Welcome back, for item 3 on our agenda today, scrutiny of Estyn's annual report for 2016-17. We've got a number of areas to cover, but please, Members, feel free to raise whatever issues you think appropriate, because\u00a0the areas that we've identified are a general guide only. Okay, welcome back to Estyn, our witnesses for this session also. I don't\u00a0know if we need further introductions. I don't think we do, really; we've already had that on the record. So, we'll move straight into questions then, and Llyr.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you very much. Just to start with, what's your opinion about the way the Government has been introducing reforms in this area over this past inspection cycle? In general, what is your opinion about how effective that has been and how much of an impression has it had?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well the seven year cycle encompasses three Governments if truth be told, but there has been a sense of continuity and progress made in the nature of policy work in general, starting with the fundamental things such as literacy and numeracy in the first instance and also behaviour and attendance, as I said earlier this morning. And then they've developed a far more comprehensive scheme that is at the heart of the development of the curriculum and pedagogy specifically. And I think that that general shift from the foundations\u2014of literacy and numeracy\u2014moving towards the curriculum and pedagogy does make sense. And the other trend that we've seen is to promote collaboration and the self-improvement system, as it's called. I also think that there are a number of progressive countries doing the same kind of thing. So, I think that the general direction is right.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, you think\u2014and I'd agree\u2014that the focus on pedagogy is correct and that this culture that appears to be putting more emphasis on self-improvement, and so on, is a positive\u00a0one. Are there aspects that haven't worked as well in your opinion?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Of course, one accepts that one would like to see development and progress happening\u00a0far more quickly, but, even in that instance, we need to balance the need that we all have to see progress with the pressures that are on teachers\u2014there are so many things changing. I think that the most striking aspect in looking back over the past seven years is that all aspects of work in the education system\u2014I'm trying to avoid saying 'schools', because it's more than just schools; it's colleges and the system as a whole\u2014have changed.\u00a0All aspects of that have changed, and I think that we need that\u2014all of those aspects need to be changed and improved\u2014but we need to balance that against the fact that we need to not go so fast, because workload on teachers\u2014. This responsibility of self-improvement means that there is more pressure on teachers and headteachers, ultimately. That's why Estyn was very pleased to collaborate with 15 other bodies to give guidance on workload for teachers, because we have to be very careful to get that right as well.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: But is it disappointing, then, in the latest annual report, that you are to all intents and purposes coming to the conclusion that the performance is consistent with how it has been over the past inspection cycle? Would you not expect some kind of progress or something more significant in terms of outcomes?\nMeilyr Rowlands: That's one way of looking at it. Another way, as I said earlier, is that all of these things are changing and, under those particular circumstances, that it's a good thing that teachers and the education system have been able to maintain standards and the quality of education.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: The sector, of course, is continually evolving. We know that a number of these reforms are still playing out and are still being developed and introduced. Of course, there is a risk that we are in this situation continuously, and therefore settling for managing to maintain, for me, perhaps wouldn't show enough ambition. Is there a risk that we will find ourselves continually\u2014? As you say, the inspection cycle has seen three Governments. There are changes and different policies and priorities being implemented. From what you say, that does prevent the development of the sector.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: We are in the middle of a period of major change, and you're right that there is more change to come. The new curriculum will reach key stage 4 in around seven years again, so we're genuinely in the middle of this period of change. Perhaps 'revolutionary' is too strong a word, but it is the biggest change that I've seen in my career. You have to go back to the 1980s and 1990s to see similar changes. Of course, we all wish to see swifter progress being made, but what that means in practice is that you push more changes through, or that you push through the changes that we currently have more quickly. There was discussion, for example, about when the new curriculum should be introduced. Those are the kinds of practical questions that arise, and you have to remember that, in the classroom, what you will have are individual teachers having to prepare for a new GCSE, a new A-level, and there are new specifications in that regard, and it's a great deal of work. So, we have to be very careful when we say that we need to accelerate that process.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: But you understand the point I was making about the risk of finding ourselves like this continually and therefore to say, if we were to interpret your conclusion in the recent report, that outcomes have been consistent over the inspection cycle doesn't mean that we are pushing enough or that the reforms happen in a way that allows progress in performance terms.\nMeilyr Rowlands: I would wish to see that we wouldn't be in this position continuously. I think that\u2014\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: But you've just suggested that there are seven years ahead of us yet in terms of introducing these reforms.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: But I do think that the reforms, in looking at them holistically, are fundamental, as I was saying. You have to go back 30, 40 years to see something similar. So, I do think that we need to look at\u2014. One of the problems\u2014. You ask what hasn't worked in the past. Well, I think one of the things, and it's difficult to answer that question, but one of the things that hasn't worked in the past is just doing one aspect of the system. We need to look at transforming the entire education system\u00a0at the same time,\u00a0because if you just tinker with one part then it might have an unintended effect in another place. So, I think we need to look at the system as a whole, and I think that what's happening at the moment is a structural change to the system.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, I think that's a fair enough point. What's your assessment, therefore, of how able or how ready schools are to deal with, in moving forward now, all of these changes and reforms?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, as I said, I think that they have coped with a whole host of changes, and that's something to be praised. We are disappointed the standards haven't improved as much as we would have liked to have seen, but we also need to be congratulating the workforce for getting to grips with so many changes in a relatively short period. So, that does give one confidence that they will be able to cope with other changes in future. So, I am confident in that sense, but we do have to be careful in looking out for the workload, because the culture of promoting is one of giving more responsibilities to teachers, to schools, to colleges and to headteachers. So, we have to be very careful that that workload doesn't become excessive.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would you also share the concern that the reduction in school budgets will worsen those risks that you referred to?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Yes. As you'll know, international research evidence shows that it is not the amount of funding that goes into education systems that dictates how effective they are. But it is true to say that, if you have financial cuts, that does cause practical problems for headteachers in having to lay off staff, and so on. So, it does take a lot of time and energy to deal with cuts.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Thanks.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Diolch yn fawr, Llyr. Mark.\nMark Reckless AM: Could I ask the reasons for Professor Donaldson being asked to undertake a review of Estyn's role?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think any good organisation would welcome external scrutiny. I would say that, wouldn't I, because I'm an inspector, but I think it's important that we practise what we preach. There have been in the past systems of quinquennial reviews. I think it is healthy for anybody to have that sort of external view, and I think in particular we're proud in Estyn that we are a body that is developing and trying new things and evolving continuously. So, I think it's that. But if you were to ask, 'Why now?', it's because of the extent of the education reform that we're particularly facing. So, I think it's a good thing to do at any given time, but considering the range and speed of change that we're facing in education now, I thought it was particularly important that we ask Graham Donaldson to look at the implications for our work of all this education reform.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: What have been the biggest benefits to Wales of having Estyn as an independent body inspecting schools and other institutions in Wales compared to the work that Ofsted has done in England?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, we have very good relationships with Ofsted and with Education Scotland and the Education Training Inspectorate in Northern Ireland. I wouldn't like to compare\u2014I don't think it would be fair to compare ourselves. We do things slightly differently, but we benefit a lot from each other. We have inspectors from Ofsted or from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, on our inspections. We shadow them, and our inspectors go to their countries. So, we're working quite closely with the home countries, but also further afield with Holland and with the Republic of Ireland, for example.\u00a0So, we're always, all of us, learning\u00a0from one another about what we think they do well and what they think we do well. We're constantly learning from each other. I wouldn't think it's fair for me to say what I think\u2014you know, where we're better than another country.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Of course. I'm not asking you to criticise Ofsted. I agree that wouldn't be appropriate. But I think what is fair for me to ask is: perhaps could you highlight one or two areas where you believe that Estyn has a particular\u00a0difference of emphasis and approach from Ofsted?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think one of the things we've done and we've developed over many years\u00a0is the use of the nominee and peer inspectors in particular. So, we've got, I think, a really good tradition of doing that in Wales, and when we do meet other inspectorates, they're always very interested in that part of our work. We're a very small organisation; we're only about 50 HMIs. We inspect a wide range of sectors, as you know, but the bulk of that inspection work is actually\u00a0done now by peer inspectors. So, I think that, and the idea of a nominee, is also of interest to other inspectorates across the world. So, there's always someone from the body that we are inspecting on the inspection team. They're part of all the discussions so they actually understand how we've come to our report, and they can then help the organisation move forward after we've left.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: I've clashed with Welsh Ministers on the absence of league tables for schools in Wales, with less accountability for their results than is the case in England. I note it as a parent myself. But, from, I think, at some point in 2014, you started in your inspection reports of primary\u00a0schools putting the comparison of how they were doing compared to other schools and local authorities\u00a0and nationally, as well as what you've described as their family of schools, and being more transparent over their key stage 2 results. So, what led you to do that? What difference has that made? And was that decision taken by Estyn on its own account, or was that something\u00a0that was agreed with Welsh Ministers?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I did listen to Plenary, so I've heard you raise this issue. I'm sure it's inadvertent\u00a0on your part, but you've confused absolutely\u00a0everyone with this.\nMark Reckless AM: I'm pleased to let you set the record straight, then.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: It's not actually true. The data that you refer to is published by the Welsh Government on My Local School. So, if you want to know about your own school or any other school, you should go onto that website. That's hugely\u2014. It's very clear. There's a huge amount of data on it, but it's very, very clear. You can look at it in terms of tables and data and graphs and it shows all that data that you refer to, and that's the right place to have it. We do refer to some of that data in our reports, because\u00a0our reports are based on evidence. Most of it is first-hand evidence that we see in the classroom and see in pupils' work, but we triangulate that with data and with what parents and pupils say and interviews with staff. So, we refer to that data and we always have referred\u00a0to the data. Pre 2014, it was in the body of the text, and then after 2014 we put it in an appendix. We had a mid-cycle review and people felt it would be better in an appendix than in the body of the text, but it was always there. There's pros and cons on whether it should\u00a0be in the body of the text or in an appendix.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Well, certainly, the data became clear to me in reports after 2014 in a way it wasn't before. So, I will leave that there. Can I just highlight a few of what I felt were either particularly striking statistics\u00a0or comparisons\u00a0or points that were made in your annual\u00a0report of potential concern? You state that headteachers do not understand the principles of good pedagogy or good practice in about three quarters of schools\u2014this relates to the foundation phase. I find that quite a shocking statistic. Do you share that view?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes. That's why I highlighted it in my foreword. I think there is a general consensus about the benefits of the foundation phase. There's a lot of research, and our own evidence shows that, where it is implemented well, pupils benefit a lot from it and they're well prepared to be independent\u00a0thinkers. So, it's a development that we should be proud of in Wales, I think, the foundation phase. It's a great thing. But, we are disappointed that only about a quarter of primary schools are implementing it fully. There's a whole range of reasons, as I discuss in the annual report, why that might be the case.\u00a0It is quite an innovative idea, and I think it's misunderstood by saying it's learning through play, because that's a bit too simplistic a definition of it. We have written a report recently on good practice in the foundation phase, so that we can try and explain clearly to people what the benefits of it are and how best to implement it. But I think it is true that too many headteachers\u2014. Many of them might not have taught in foundation phase, they might not have that infant background, they might have a junior-school background. There might not have been enough\u2014well, we say there wasn't enough training\u2014or there might be people who missed any training that there was then. So, overall, there is a large number of leaders who don't fully appreciate what the foundation phase could deliver.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Darren\u2014is it on this?\n",
      "Darren Millar AM: Yes, it is on this. I was just wondering\u2014. I mean, one of the problems that I know you've identified in the past is this lack of good practice being able\u00a0to travel into all parts of Wales, and, of course, we've got local authorities, we've got regional consortia, we've got the Welsh Government\u2014all of which want to see good practice replicated where possible. What opportunities are there, perhaps, to develop some other further opportunities for good practice to be shared and promoted? I know that the Wales Audit Office, for example, has its good practice exchange. Is there something\u00a0similar that schools can engage with to make things happen?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: It's a good question. I mean, specifically to do with foundation phase, there is a foundation phase\u2014I can't remember what it's called now\u2014excellence network I think, which is being relaunched. I think it was supposed to be relaunched during the snow period. So, there are networks being established. There's one for mathematics\u2014a national network for excellence in mathematics\u2014there's one for science and there's one for foundation phase in particular. So, I think it is a challenge that we haven't cracked yet in Wales: how do we make sure that\u00a0good practice does travel?\u00a0I think one specifically for foundation phase is a good idea, because we've got a specific issue with the foundation phase.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: When you say that\u2014\nJohn Griffiths AM: Mark, just before you go on, I think Julie wanted to come in on this point as well.\nJulie Morgan AM: Yes. I just wondered if you could give us some examples about how the foundation phase is not being implemented in the true spirit of the foundation phase in the three quarters of schools that you think fall\u2014.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, what we mean by that is schools not necessarily teaching badly, but in a more traditional way. And where we've seen that most obviously is in year 1 and year 2. Some schools actually reverted, after the\u00a0introduction of the new tests, from what was pedagogy that was in line with the foundation phase. And basically, if I understand it correctly, it's more to do with the children making their own choices about what they do. And that is pretty common in nursery and reception classes, but it's less common in year 1 and year 2.\n",
      "Claire Morgan: I think it is very much, as Meilyr said, the difference between a pupil-led learning experience or a teacher-led learning experience.\u00a0Because of the lack of training and maybe the confidence to pursue that active and experiential learning approach, teachers have tended to resort to what they feel more comfortable with, which is more of an adult-led learning\u2014often still high quality, but it doesn't ensure that the learners become far more independent, far more engaged in their learning. So, it's almost holding children back to an extent. They're making good progress, but they could be making even more progress.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Mark.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: So, when you say that some teachers are sort of holding children back,\u00a0and in the report that three quarters of schools don't understand the principles of good pedagogy or good practice, what you mean is that teachers are using traditional methods, including whole-class teaching, rather than moving towards a pupil-led learning experience and one that you said was oversimplified as learning through play. May not the issue here therefore be that Estyn is seeking to impose this different approach on teachers who think that they are better able to teach children in the traditional way, which, at least in my experience, would be supported by quite a number of parents?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I don't think it's Estyn that's\u00a0imposing it. That's the national policy.\nMark Reckless AM: Do you support that policy?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, we do, actually. We do. Our evidence, as I said, is that, when it is implemented properly, pupils do actually gain from it. But we're not imposing it, and what we're saying is that headteachers are not necessarily understanding it. I think there is quite a lot of jargon around it. I was just looking in the annual report. Quite unusually, in this section, we have had to actually explain some of the technical terms, like 'continuous provision'.\u00a0So that's, I think, one of the reasons why people don't understand it fully. That's why we did produce this quite substantial bit of work, trying to unpack what this actually means in practice and giving a lot of good examples of the practice.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: You referred to evidence of this approach working. Given the timing of when it was brought in and where we are now, has that really had time to distil through the system and give compelling evidence that this approach works better than more traditional approaches?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I think it has, to be fair. I think this has, because we're talking about a lot of developmental work related to the foundation phase prior to 2010, but it became compulsory for all schools to deliver it from 2010 onwards. So, that gives enough time for children to have been through the whole of the foundation\u00a0phase onto key stage 2, and we can see the effect of it. In the schools where there is good practice in the foundation phase, we can see the effect when we inspect on key stage 2 children.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: So, would you be confident about this, in the next few years, feeding through into an improvement in Programme for International Student Assessments, rather than a further deterioration?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Yes. I think that if we did what Darren was talking about, getting more schools to share good practice, I think it will expand and more schools will take it on, yes.\n",
      "Mark Reckless AM: Okay. On the sharing of good practice, you put emphasis in the report on this being an improving area and trend for the future as well, but I think you did raise concerns that it wasn't monitored or evaluated sufficiently well, particularly where one school was supporting another. How should that be done better?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, I think this has been a theme of many of the issues we've raised: that, whatever the initiative, you can't tell whether it's been successful or not unless you evaluate it properly. So, those evaluation skills, I think, are very important. I think that, with the development of the\u00a0national academy for educational leadership, I would hope that research skills and evaluative skills would be part of the kind of training that headteachers get that maybe in the past they didn't. So, that becomes more of the day-to-day work of schools\u2014that naturally, whenever you do something,\u00a0you evaluate it afterwards.\u00a0We've evaluated a lot of the school-to-school work. We've published two or three reports on it, and we've identified what we think is good practice and not-so-good practice.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay, Mark? If we move on at this stage\u2014I wonder, before other Members come in, if I could ask about community-focused schools. Quite a lot of what we discussed earlier was around the importance of getting families and the community more involved in education, and one way of doing that, I think, is through community-focused schools that are very much accessible to the community, linked well with outside organisations, having an extended school-day offer. We have the\u00a0twenty-first century schools programme, but\u00a0we have a lot of schools existing that haven't been part of that. I just wondered to what extent Estyn might encourage or highlight the need to encourage greater consistency in community-focused schools across Wales, because I think there is a feeling that it is very inconsistent.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, we would very much be happy to support anything like that. We discussed it earlier. We were\u00a0talking about targeting vulnerable learners earlier this morning. We see that as, particularly, a solution for that long-standing issue we have in Wales in particular. So, yes, we do have good examples of good practice. We mentioned some of them earlier this morning. I've puzzled about this. I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding about the term 'community-focused school'. I think it became thought of as meaning the community just uses the facilities in the evening and, of course, it's a much, much broader concept than that. I think some schools particularly didn't like the community using their facilities in the evening, and that became, I think, possibly part of the reason why community-focused schools didn't become more popular. The way I look at it is, as Claire was explaining earlier about the school offering all kinds of services to people\u2014you know, family learning, those sorts of nurture groups, all those sorts of educationally focused services available from the school, and generally building relationships. They're more to do with the culture than the actual building and the facilities. But, yes, we certainly have seen and identified where that good practice exists.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: So, if there might be a mechanism that could have community-focused schools working in the way that you've described right across Wales, would Estyn be in favour of such a mechanism?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Absolutely, yes.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Could I just ask one further question, then, before, as I said, I bring other Members in? There is a particular concern at the moment\u2014and has been for some time\u2014about white working-class children, and perhaps particularly boys, not attaining as they should through our education system. Is that something that Estyn recognises? Has Estyn done much work on that, and if so, what is that work?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: We've done work on boys and girls, and we've done work on deprived children\u2014you know, identified, as we were discussing this morning, by eligibility for free school meals. We haven't specifically looked at white working-class boys, but a lot of the solutions, and a lot of the good practice that we have identified generally, through the PDG and whatever I think is the way forward for that particular cohort as well.\nJohn Griffiths AM: So, you wouldn't see the need for a particular focus or a particular piece of work\u00a0to identify whether there are aspects of education that might particularly\u00a0benefit that group.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I wouldn't object to doing a piece of work on that, in case we have missed something, but I suspect it would be the same schools that do well with that cohort that we've identified already for the same reasons, I suspect.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay. Michelle.\nMichelle Brown AM: Thank you. To what extent has the rate of improvement\u00a0differed between the primary and secondary sectors?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: I'm not sure if there's been a difference in the rate of improvement, but certainly I've raised in this annual report, and indeed in previous annual reports, the difference between primary and secondary. We've got 7 in 10\u2014nearly three quarters\u2014of primary schools doing well and about half of secondary schools. So, I did open debate on why that is the case in last year's annual report. There are several reasons, I think. Generally, there is a widening of gaps when you go from primary to secondary, but also it's from foundation phase to key stage 2 to key stage 3 to key stage 4. There's a general widening\u00a0of the gender gap, for example. There's a widening\u00a0of the free-school-meals gap and so forth. So, there are particular\u00a0challenges facing secondary schools that don't exist in primary. I should say that what you get in secondary schools is greater variability. So, there's actually more excellence in secondary schools according to our inspections than in primary, although the overall proportion of good or better schools is higher in primary than in secondary. So, I think it is a challenge to think why this is the case. It's partly because\u00a0of the challenges of adolescent, young people. That is part of it. I think also, although I've got no evidence for this, it's probably\u00a0more difficult\u00a0for that community focus to work in a larger secondary school than a smaller primary school. You go to primary schools, you often see the parents much more engaged than in secondary school. So, I think that's a bit more of a challenge as well. So, there is a whole range of issues. The other one,\u00a0of course,\u00a0is the one we were talking about earlier this morning, the pressure on secondary schools to address performance indicators and examinations in particular. Another possible reason is the structure\u00a0of secondary schools is subject-based, departmental-based, so children will get 10 to 12 different teachers. In primary school, for a whole year, they will have the same teacher. It's easier, therefore, in a primary school for the school to see the child as an individual\u00a0and recognise their problems and their needs as a whole. So, I think there is a whole range of issues that explains or goes part way to explaining\u00a0what you've identified.\n",
      "Michelle Brown AM: Okay, thank you. You touched on this quite\u00a0a bit in your earlier evidence, but you said in the annual report that there's a danger that accountability measures might be having an effect on the advice being given to pupils about subjects they study. Do you have any evidence of that or is that a perception?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Well, I think everyone agrees that there's very strong evidence about that. We discussed examples this morning. When you change a performance\u00a0indicator, the examination pattern changes. We talked about examples like BTEC science this morning. There's a very, very direct and immediate impact on them. There's plenty of evidence\u00a0of that.\nJohn Griffiths AM: Okay, Michelle?\u00a0Perhaps we'll move on at this stage\u2014we haven't got a great deal of time left\u2014if that's okay. Julie.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: I wanted to ask about special schools in terms of your views about the standards in special schools\u2014whether you've got any views on that.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, we highlighted special schools as a successful sector in the annual report, as we have over\u00a0many years. Over 90 per cent of them are good or better. It's a very successful sector. The small number of schools that don't do quite as well tend to be the schools that deal with children with emotional and behavioural difficulties. But the sector as a whole is a good example of sharing good practice. They work very, very well together. They're constantly\u2014. It's difficult to say why that is in this particular sector, as opposed to other sectors. Possibly they don't have an overlap in catchment areas, they're quite geographically\u00a0separate, so they don't feel as if they're in competition with one another. But they certainly work very well together, sharing good practice, doing peer reviews of each other. So, it is a successful sector.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: And that includes the independent sector.\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Sorry, I should have said that was mainly to do with the maintained sector. The independent sector tends to focus maybe on those children with emotional and behavioural difficulties, so they have the more difficult task to begin with. But because they're independent, they are, to some extent, in competition with one another. So, we have seen improvement in that independent special sector over the cycle. That's partly down to the work we do in Estyn. We visit them on an annual basis to make sure that they're addressing all our recommendations, and continue to meet the needs of those pupils. And also, I think there's been a trend where more of those independent schools now have\u2014. Several of them have the same owner, so they share good practice amongst that little chain of schools. So, that has been a trend we've seen over time as well.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: Right. And what about pupil referral units? How are the standards there?\n",
      "Meilyr Rowlands: Yes, they're more variable. I think they have a lot of challenges. We've contributed a lot of evidence to the various working groups that have been looking at EOTAS\u2014that's education other than at school. Half the children in EOTAS\u2014educated other than at school\u2014are in PRUs. So, we've done a lot of work about that. ADEW, which is the\u00a0Association of Directors of Education in Wales, have now set up a national body to share good practice amongst PRUs, so I think that is a very positive step forward, because that sharing, I think, wasn't happening with PRUs. I think what we need to do with PRUs is to get them to be more of a part of the education system as a whole. They tend to be sort of semi-detached a little bit from the system. So, the more we can do to involve them in national events, and also, I think, make their governance more like that of a school so that they become more similar to schools\u2014that makes it easier for them to share practice with schools.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay, thank you very much. Llyr.\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Thank you. I'd just like to spend a minute or two looking more specifically at post-16 education. The percentage of further education colleges who have reached a\u00a0 good or better standard has increased, of course, over the past inspection cycle. I'd just like to ask what you think is responsible for that, and are there any lessons we can take out of that and transfer to other sectors within education?\nMeilyr Rowlands: Thank you for the question, but I'm going to ask Simon to answer.\n",
      "Simon Brown: As you're aware, the number of colleges\u00a0from 22 to 12, and I think those mergers resulted in establishments that were stronger in terms of their leadership in particular. That leadership, I think\u00a0the characteristics we have seen in the 'good' or 'better'\u2014as you say, 80 per cent leadership good or better\u2014has been a culture of openness, a culture of clarity of purpose about where the college is going. High staff morale has been maintained, because a number of those colleges\u2014. Obviously, if you're merging large colleges as they did in north Wales, keeping staff morale high is quite a skill, and I think\u00a0the leadership have done that very well. They've also supported managers at all levels, and they've encouraged managers to support staff at all levels. So, it's become a very collaborative, very supportive organisation. I think another characteristic of the FE sector is that\u00a0it's got very strong governance arrangements. I did a training\u00a0session for college governors about a month ago, and what struck me was the breadth of experience of the college governors, from industry, from academia. They are a very\u00a0challenging set of governors, I think, who hold the senior leadership\u00a0to account in the colleges, and that helps to push standards forward. Teaching is 'good' or 'better' in 70 per cent\u00a0of colleges because the\u00a0senior leadership team are encouraging\u00a0teachers in colleges to innovate, encouraging them to engage actively in performance management\u00a0systems, and to become reflective practitioners in the colleges. And this is impacting, obviously, on the standards at the end of the day. So, I think those are the key features.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: And how many of those do you think could effectively be transferred or encouraged in other sectors?\nSimon Brown: But I think one sector that\u2014. I think the other post-16 sector, which is work-based learning\u2014\nLlyr Gruffydd AM: Well, yes, I was going to ask you. Conversely, of course, there's a different experience\u00a0there.\n",
      "Simon Brown: Yes, there is a contrast. And we do have concerns about work-based learning. And, again, those concerns tend to sit mainly with the leadership. As we said in the\u00a0annual report, standards are 'good' or 'better' in only 50 per cent of work-based learning companies, mainly because the completion rates of learners are not what we'd expect, the progression that learners\u00a0make isn't what we'd expect. And that is mainly\u00a0due to the way in which the leadership teams monitor progress\u2014monitor progress in themselves\u00a0as a provider, but, more importantly, the way they\u00a0manage sub-contractors, because, as you will already know, there's 19 lead providers; there's about 100 training providers. And the companies that are doing better, or the training providers doing better, are those\u00a0that have got a firm grip on their sub-contractors, and, most importantly, they put quality as the top part of any agenda at any meeting. And, of course, if you're challenging your sub-contractors about\u00a0quality, that will impact\u00a0on standards of teaching, and, hopefully, ultimately, on standards of performance on the learners. And I think, to go back\u00a0to your original question, Llyr, the sort of leadership models that FE colleges have, I think\u00a0some of the work-based learning providers would be wise to start to emulate those. It's beginning\u00a0to happen, because\u00a0FE is getting more engaged in the work-based learning world, so I think some of those behaviours will start to rub off on the companies.\n",
      "Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, who would you look to drive some of those changes through then? Is it the sector themselves,\u00a0 or to what extent can Government and others do things?\n",
      "Simon Brown: Well, as you know, Meilyr alluded\u00a0to the changes across all sectors. We've got PCET\u2014we've got the post-compulsory education and training\u00a0reforms under way. The Welsh Government is looking at the implementation of Hazelkorn's recommendations. So, ultimately, that will start to drive the sectors closer together in post-16. But I think, in the shorter term, some of the work that groups like Colegau Cymru and the National Training Federation Wales\u00a0are doing, sharing best practice, bringing the colleges and the training companies together, is beginning to help. I'm going to the national training federation conference tomorrow in Cardiff, and I notice the attendance there\u2014there's a lot of FE colleges attending, senior staff of FE colleges, as well as from the work-based training companies. So, that sort of osmosis of good practice is beginning to happen quite naturally.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay, Llyr? We haven't got very long left, but we've got five minutes or so for some further questions from Hefin David.\nHefin David AM: With regard to local authorities, you found shortcomings in your 2010-14 inspection in 15 of the 22. And one of the things that struck me in the report was where you said that you found ineffective processes for self-evaluating improvement within those authorities, but you've also said that there's been a high turnover of directors and\u00a0new\u00a0directors in place in\u00a0many of them. Has that had a\u00a0positive effect on that self-evaluation process?\n",
      "Simon Brown: As you're aware, over the past three years, out of the 22 authorities, there have been 40 new directors, over the past three years. Those directors have got a range of experience. Some of those directors are very experienced. Other ones have come from headteachership fairly recently. So, that's one factor.\u00a0I think the other factor is that the status of education\u00a0directors has changed quite significantly.\u00a0Some local authorities are a member of the corporate team and they are\u00a0directors of\u00a0education and children's services, so they've got very broad portfolios. In other ones, they're being treated more like heads of service, so heads of\u00a0department level.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: I know that Caerphilly went in the opposite direction\u2014from having a chief\u00a0education officer to then appointing a director, I think.\nSimon Brown: I'm sorry?\nHefin David AM: In Caerphilly county borough, they went from having a chief education officer and now have got a\u00a0director again. But, in many cases, they're the same people, aren't they? It's\u00a0just that their roles are changed.\n",
      "Simon Brown: Yes, it's the changes as the\u00a0corporate structure of councils shift and change. I think the other thing that's happened, of course, with the role of\u00a0the\u00a0director of education, is, because of the regional consortia now\u00a0doing the school improvement function, a large chunk of that role has now moved to the consortia. So, I think it's early days to say what the impact of that new cohort of\u00a0directors will be, but, of course, we're starting a new inspection cycle in September. We don't do pilots. We looked at Neath Port Talbot in December; we looked at Denbighshire in February. Those\u00a0reports are not yet published, but what I can say is that neither of those\u00a0authorities are in follow-up.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: But you said, even though it's not in follow-up, it was still showing signs of not being able to reflect effectively on improvement\u2014in\u00a0the report.\nSimon Brown: Not in those two authorities.\nHefin David AM: Right, okay, but some of those not in follow-up were not\u00a0reflecting\u00a0effectively on\u00a0their improvement\u2014is the statement that\u00a0was made in\u00a0the report.\n",
      "Simon Brown: What we're seeing, and we've seen this before in the previous cycle, is that the performance of some authorities is patchy. There are\u00a0authorities that we have concerns about. Those are the\u00a0authorities\u2014. I think I said to committee last year those authorities are ones that we held improvement conferences in last year. That was to get the senior leadership\u2014both political and officer-led leadership\u2014and the consortia and\u00a0Welsh Government\u00a0and the Wales\u00a0Audit Office and, as it was, the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales,\u00a0around the table to get those senior leadership teams to actually identify what the longer-term issues are, to surface those issues and to put\u00a0together an action plan.\u00a0We're\u00a0revisiting those three authorities very, very shortly. The\u00a0first of the\u00a0revisits is in April to see what progress they've made over the past 12 months or so.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. And, with things like the curriculum reforms, you've identified the new directors in place, but you've said that, although they're new directors, they're\u00a0actually very\u00a0experienced in education, so therefore you're confident that\u00a0they're going to manage the\u00a0reforms well as they are\u00a0developed in\u00a0the next few years.\n",
      "Simon Brown: I think one development, and I've raised this in committee before, was\u2014. One of our concerns, apart from the fact that there was a large turnover of directors, was what sort of level of training senior leaders and middle managers were getting in those authorities. One of the things that I'm quite pleased to report is that the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Welsh Government have\u00a0stepped up to address that issue. Last year, all serving directors attended residential courses run by the Staff College Wales, facilitated by ADEW, and ADEW have just finished the first round of director\u2014. The name of the course is the 'Welsh future leaders in education' course and 26 people have just finished that\u2014aspiring directors. They're preparing for another cohort in September. That course, again, is developed by the Staff College Wales, but it has a lot of external input. They're putting in directors and chief executives from Scotland, they're putting in headteachers of very successful schools in England, who've got current grass-roots experience to share with these aspiring directors. So, I think the concerns that we had previously about the professional learning for middle managers and leaders in local authorities are being addressed. The proof will be in the pudding when we start to do the inspection cycle, but at least the issue now is being tackled.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Can I just look at, then, consortia?\u00a0One of the criticisms in the report was that national policy wasn't being put in context\u2014I think that was the statement in the report\u2014in certain consortia. Can you elaborate on what you meant by that?\n",
      "Simon Brown: Yes, when we talked, we said that\u2014. Well, two things are at play. One is that the national model for regional working is being revised at the moment, and that work is ongoing by Welsh Government.\u00a0That is to bring greater consistency to the four consortia, because one of our concerns, which we\u00a0expressed in this report\u00a0and we expressed in previous years, is that, although the national model had a particular approach back in 2012, when Robert Hill did the first review, it had a particular approach to the consortia being fairly similar, over the years, they've gone in four different directions. To be fair, over the past couple of years, the consortia are now collaborating much closer together. They are working together\u2014for example, I mentioned earlier about the regional co-ordinators for LAC. Those four people are meeting regularly. So, they've all got different co-ordination roles in their regions. Whereas before they were working more in silos, they are now working much closer together.\u00a0So, I think what we were referring to, and what we were talking about in the report, is the fact that the consortia need to have a more consistent approach across all four regions. But that will certainly be driven by the new national model.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. And the relationships with local authorities, you said that the sharing of information with the local authorities is not always acted upon by local authorities\u2014from the consortia. Is that a failure of communication, or is that something that sits with\u00a0the local authority to acknowledge?\n",
      "Simon Brown: I don't think it's a failure of communication. In the cases where some authorities haven't acted sufficiently in intervening in schools or in issuing warning\u00a0letters, the consortia have been quite clear. The challenge advisers have highlighted these issues. It's the authority that hasn't acted as swiftly as we would expect it to. But, again, I think that is beginning to improve, because the local authorities are quite sensitive to the fact we are now going to be re-inspecting them and looking at them, and that is one of the issues we'll be picking up on.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. And, in order to do their jobs, the consortia need to be suitably resourced.\u00a0Are they, and are they fit for the challenges ahead?\n",
      "Simon Brown: It's not for us to comment on whether each consortium is sufficiently funded or not, but what we would say is that, generally,\u00a0in the past, they've spent perhaps too large a proportion of their funds\u00a0on challenge work and not enough funding on support work, but that, again, is moving. We've picked up that GwE, for example,\u00a0is in the process of renaming their challenge advisers 'support advisers',\u00a0because they're moving their culture more over to supporting schools to deal with all the raft of reforms that Meilyr mentioned, and that is,\u00a0it seems to me, an entirely sensible way to go.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay.\u00a0Thank you.\n",
      "John Griffiths AM: Okay. Well, that brings this session to an end. So, thank you all very much once again for giving evidence to committee today. Once again, you will be sent a transcript to check for factual accuracy. Diolch yn fawr. Okay, the next item on our agenda today, item 4, is papers to note. We have one paper to note, which is a letter from the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee to the Welsh Government regarding the Hwb programme.\u00a0Is committee content to note that paper? Yes.\u00a0Thank you very much. Item 5, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17.42\u00a0to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting. Is committee content so to do? Okay. Thank you very much. We will move into private session.\n"
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  },
  {
    "id": 50,
    "question": "What was the general discussion?",
    "answer": "The group discussed recognition results generated for 20 minutes of close-talking microphone data. Recognition performance was very good, indicating promising results for forced alignment procedures and the ability to analyze other important signal information, e.g. prosody and overlapping speech. It was decided that close-talking data should be downsampled and fed to the SRI recognizer to compare recognition performance, and that data from the far-field microphones should be tested on the recognizer as soon as possible. The group also discussed recording setup and equipment issues. ",
    "docs": [
      "Grad F: Test .\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: Let 's see , I should be Two .\nPhD D: Up high {disfmarker}\nGrad E: As close to your mouth as you can get it .\nProfessor B: La\nPhD D: high as you can get .\nProfessor B: Is this channel one ?\nPostdoc G: Yeah , on your upper lip .\nPhD H: Channel one one one .\nProfessor B: Gee , OK . Yes . OK .\n",
      "Grad E: OK , so for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} For people wearing the wireless mikes , like {disfmarker} like this one , I find the easiest way to wear it is sorta this {disfmarker} this sorta like that .\nPhD H: This is {disfmarker} chan channel channel one one two three\nGrad F: Channel five , channel five .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Mm - hmm . What do you do ,\nGrad E: It 's actually a lot more comfortable then if you try to put it over your temples ,\nGrad F: Test , test test .\nProfessor B: you do it higher ?\n",
      "Grad E: so {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Adam 's just trying to generate good uh data for the recognizer there .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , I think we 're supposed to {disfmarker} that 's right .\nGrad E: And then also , for {disfmarker} for all of them , if your boom is adjustable , the boom should be towards the corner of your mouth ,\nGrad F: Test test .\nPhD A: By the way , there was a bug . Yeah , i it wasn't using the proper\nPhD D: Oh it was .\n",
      "Grad E: and about a uh a thumb to a thumb and a half distance away from your mouth ,\nPhD A: basically it wasn't adapting anything .\nPhD D: Oh .\nGrad E: so about like I 'm wearing it now .\nPhD D: Oh that 's interesting . So why didn't you get the same results and the unadapted ?\nGrad E: so so Jane , you could actually do even a little closer to your mouth ,\nPhD H: It 's not always possible .\nPhD A: Hmm ?\nPhD D: Why didn't you get the same results and the unadapted ?\n",
      "Postdoc G: I could {disfmarker} can this be adjuste like this ?\nGrad E: but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh , because when it estimates the transformer pro produces like a single matrix or something .\nGrad E: Yep .\nPostdoc G: Is that @ @ ? OK , thank you .\nGrad F: Adam , I 'm not {disfmarker}\nPhD D: O Oh oh I see .\nGrad F: uh , looks kinda low on channel five {disfmarker}\nPhD D: I see , I see .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad F: no ?\nGrad E: Channel five , s speak again .\n",
      "Grad F: Maybe not .\nPostdoc G: Hello .\nPhD A: Basically there were no counts\nGrad E: Yeah , that 's alright .\nGrad F: Hello ?\nGrad E: I mean , we could {disfmarker} we could up the gain slightly if you wanted to .\nGrad F: It 's OK ?\nPhD H: Yeah .\nGrad F: Is this OK ?\nPhD H: OK .\nPhD D: I see what you mean .\nPhD C: Who 's channel B ?\nGrad E: but {disfmarker} Uh , channel B is probably Liz .\nPhD C: Uh oh .\n",
      "PhD H: Uh channel B {disfmarker} I am channel B .\nProfessor B: You wanna close this ,\nPostdoc G: Channel eight , eight .\nProfessor B: or\nPhD C: No I\nGrad E: Thank you .\nPhD H: No , channel B .\nPhD A: Hello , hello .\nPhD C: yeah , yeah , you 're channel B .\nPhD H: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD C: So can you talk a bit ? I thought it might be too\nPhD H: OK , yeah , channel B , one two three four five .\nPhD C: OK .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , it 's alright . So , the gain isn't real good .\nProfessor B: We 're recording ,\nPhD C: OK .\nProfessor B: right ?\nGrad E: OK , so we are recording .\nPhD H: Ah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: OK .\nGrad E: Um everyone should have at least two forms possibly three in front of you depending on who you are .\nGrad F: Oh .\n",
      "Grad E: Um we {disfmarker} we 're doing a new speaker form and you only have to spea fill out the speaker form once but everyone does need to do it . And so that 's the name , sex , email , et cetera .\nPhD H: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: We {disfmarker} we had a lot of discussion about the variety of English and so on so if you don't know what to put just leave it blank . Um I {disfmarker} I designed the form and I don't know what to put for my own region ,\nPhD A: Mmm .\nGrad E: so\n",
      "PhD D: California .\nPhD A: I think {disfmarker}\nGrad E: California .\nPhD H: California .\nPhD A: Um may I make one suggestion ? Instead of age put date of {disfmarker} uh year of birth\nGrad E: Sure .\nPhD A: because age will change , but The year of birth changes , you know , stays the same , usually .\nGrad E: Oh .\nPhD C: A actually , wait a minute ,\nGrad E: Birth year ?\nPostdoc G: Although on {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: shouldn't it be the other way around ?\n",
      "PhD D: Not for me .\nPostdoc G: course on the other {disfmarker} on the other hand you could {disfmarker} you view it as the age at the time of the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: On the other side ,\nPhD A: Well the thing is , if ten years from now you look at this form knowing that {disfmarker}\nPhD C: yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yes , but what we care about is the age at {disfmarker} at the recording date rather than the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: O yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: But there 's no other date on the form .\nPhD C: W we don't care how they {disfmarker} old they really are .\nPhD A: Well {disfmarker} well I don't know .\nPostdoc G: Yes . {vocalsound} Unless we wanna send them a card .\nGrad E: Well I guess it depends on how long the corpus is gonna be collected for .\nPhD A: Anyway .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , that 's true .\nPhD C: I still don't see the problem .\nGrad E: Either way yeah I think {disfmarker} I think age is alright\n",
      "PhD A: OK .\nGrad E: and then um there will be attached to this a point or two these forms uh so that you 'll be able to extract the date off that\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: so , anyway . And so then you also have a digits form which needs to be filled out every time , the speaker form only once , the digit form every time even if you don't read the digits you have to fill out the digits form so that we know that you were at the meeting . OK ? And then also if you haven't filled one out already you do have to fill out a consent form . And that should just be one person whose name I don't know . OK ?\nGrad F: Do you want this {pause} Adam ?\nGrad E: Uh sure . Thank you .\nProfessor B: So uh\nGrad E: OK so should we do agenda items ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh oh that 's a good idea . I shouldn't run the meeting .\nGrad E: Uh well I have {disfmarker} I wanna talk about new microphones and wireless stuff .\nPostdoc G: Mmm .\nGrad E: And I 'm sure Liz and Andreas wanna talk about recognition results . Anything else ?\nPhD C: I guess {disfmarker} what time do we have to leave ? Three thirty ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah ,\nGrad E: Why don't you go first then .\nPhD C: so .\nProfessor B: Yeah , good idea .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD C: Um Well , I {disfmarker} I sent out an email s couple hours ago so um with Andreas ' help um Andreas put together a sort of no frills recognizer which is uh gender - dependent but like no adaptation , no cross - word models , no trigrams {disfmarker} a bigram recognizer and that 's trained on Switchboard which is telephone conversations . Um and thanks to Don 's help wh who {disfmarker} Don took the first meeting that Jane had transcribed and um {vocalsound} you know separated {disfmarker} used the individual channels we segmented it in into the segments that Jane had used and uh Don sampled that so {disfmarker} so eight K um and then we ran up to I guess the first twenty minutes , up to synch time of one two zero zero so is that {disfmarker} that 's twenty minutes or so ? Um yeah because I guess there 's some ,\n",
      "Grad E: Or so .\nPhD C: and Don can talk to Jane about this , there 's some bug in the actual synch time file that ah uh I 'm {disfmarker} we 're not sure where it came from but stuff after that was a little messier . Anyway so it 's twenty minutes and I actually\nGrad E: Hmm .\nPhD C: um\nGrad E: I {disfmarker} was that {disfmarker} did that {disfmarker} did that recording have the glitch in the middle ?\n",
      "Postdoc G: I 'm puzzled by that . I {disfmarker} oh {disfmarker} oh , I see .\nPhD C: There 's {disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Oh there was a glitch somewhere .\nPhD C: yeah , so that actually um\nGrad F: Was it twenty minutes in ,\nPhD C: if it was twenty minutes in then I don't know\nPostdoc G: I forgot about that .\nGrad F: I thought {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Well it was interesting ,\nPostdoc G: Well , I mean , they {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: suddenly {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the overall error rate when we first ran it was like eighty percent\nGrad E: I don't remember when it is .\nPostdoc G: but I was able to can transcribe\nPhD A: but i looking at {disfmarker} the first sentences looked much better than that and then suddenly it turned very bad and then we noticed that the reference was always one off with the {disfmarker} it was actually recognized\nPhD C: Wel\nGrad E: Oh no .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , that might be {disfmarker} that might be {disfmarker} that might be my fault .\nPostdoc G: Wow .\nPhD A: so\nGrad E: Oh so that was just a parsing mismatch .\nGrad F: I 'm not {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK .\nPhD C: No actually it was {disfmarker} yeah i it was a complicated bug because they were sometimes one off and then sometimes totally random so um\nGrad F: yeah , I was pretty certain that it worked up until that time ,\nPostdoc G: Oh . That 's not good .\nPhD C: Yeah\n",
      "PhD A: OK .\nPhD C: so that 's what we have\nGrad E: Alright .\nGrad F: so\nPhD C: but that {disfmarker} that will be completely gone if this synch time problem\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad E: The {disfmarker} the glitch\nPhD A: So {disfmarker} so we have everything recognized but we scored only the first uh whatever , up to that time to\nPostdoc G: And the only glitch {disfmarker}\nGrad E: yeah .\nPostdoc G: yeah .\nPhD C: So you guys know .\n",
      "Professor B: S sorry I haven't seen the email ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Th - the\nPostdoc G: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} well {disfmarker} wait\nProfessor B: what was the score ?\nPhD C: So here 's the actual copy of the email\nPostdoc G: we should say something about the glitch . He {disfmarker} he can say something about the glitch .\nPhD C: um oh OK\nGrad E: yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Cuz it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} h it 's {disfmarker} it 's very small {disfmarker}\nPhD C: so does this glitch occur at other {disfmarker}\nGrad E: There {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there 's an acoustic glitch that occurs where um the channels get slightly asynchronized\nPostdoc G: very small . Yep .\nPhD C: Oh .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPhD C: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: so the {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that problem has gone away in the original driver believe it or not when the SSH key gen ran the driver paused for a fraction of a second\nProfessor B: Hmm .\nGrad F: Hmm .\nGrad E: and so the channels get a little asynchronous and so if you listen to it in the middle there 's a little part where it starts doing {disfmarker} doing click sounds .\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD C: And is it only once that that happens ?\nGrad E: But yeah\nPhD C: OK .\n",
      "Grad E: it {disfmarker} right once in the middle .\nPhD C: There 's {disfmarker} the previous page has some more information about sort of what was wrong\nProfessor B: so {disfmarker} so un unsurprisingly Adam is the golden voice ,\nPhD C: but\nGrad E: Um But that shouldn't affect anything\nPhD C: OK so that 's actually\nPostdoc G: S and it {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: you see this here ?\nPhD C: It {disfmarker} y it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad E: yeah yeah \" bah \"\n",
      "PhD C: OK no {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh , and {disfmarker}\nPhD C: What happens is it actually affects the script that Don {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Huh .\nPhD C: I mean if we know about it then I guess it could always be checked for it\nGrad E: Well the acoustic one shouldn't do anything .\nPhD C: but they\nGrad F: Yeah , I don't know exactly what affected it\nPostdoc G: I agree . I agree .\nPhD A: I {disfmarker} I have {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: but I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll talk to you about it ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad E: But I {disfmarker} I do remember {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad F: I 'll show you the point .\nPostdoc G: Yeah . It {disfmarker} it had no effect on my transcription ,\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPostdoc G: you know , I mean I {disfmarker} I had no trouble hearing it and {disfmarker} and having time bins\n",
      "Grad E: I do remember seeing once the transcriber produce an incorrect XML file where one of the synch numbers was incorrect .\nPostdoc G: but there was a {disfmarker} Oh .\nPhD C: Well , the {disfmarker} the synch time {disfmarker} the synch numbers have more significant digits than they should ,\nGrad F: That 's what happened .\nPostdoc G: Oh .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nGrad E: Where {disfmarker} where they weren't monotonic .\nGrad F: There was {disfmarker} yeah , I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: right ? There 's things that are l in smaller increments than a frame .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Oh , interesting .\nPhD C: And so then , I mean you look at that and it 's got you know more than three significant digits in a synch time then that can't be right\nGrad E: Oh OK so that 's\nGrad F: Hmm .\nPostdoc G: Oh .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPhD C: so anyway it 's {disfmarker} it 's just {disfmarker}\nGrad E: yeah sounds like a bug .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: that 's why we only have twenty minutes but there 's a significant amount of {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Non - zero ? Um there are like more {disfmarker} cuz there 's a lot of zeros I tacked on just because of the way the script ran ,\nGrad E: The other one I saw was that it yeah .\nGrad F: I mean but there were there was a point .\nPhD C: Yeah that was fine . That {disfmarker} that was OK .\nGrad E: The other one I saw was non non - monotonic synch times\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Grad E: and that definitely indicra indicates a bug .\nGrad F: Uh .\nPhD C: Well that would really be a problem , yeah . So anyway these are just the ones that are the prebug for one meeting .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD C: um and what 's {disfmarker} which {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So that 's very encouraging .\nPhD C: this is really encouraging cuz this is free recognition ,\nProfessor B: Hmm .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Cool .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD C: there 's no I mean the language model for Switchboard is totally different so you can see some like this Trent Lott which\nPhD D: Trent Lott .\nPhD C: um I mean these are sort of funny ones ,\nPhD D: It 'll get those though .\nPhD C: there 's a lot of perfect ones and good ones and all the references , I mean you can read them and when we get more results you can look through and see\nGrad E: I and as I said I would like to look at the lattices\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: but um it 's pretty good .\nGrad E: because it sounded like even the ones it got wrong it sort of got it right ?\nPhD C: Well so I guess we can generate\nGrad E: Sounds likes ?\nPhD A: There are a fair number of errors that are , you know where {disfmarker} got the plural S wrong or the inflection on the verb wrong .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: um\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , and who cares ? And {disfmarker} and there were lots of {disfmarker} of course the \" uh uh \" - s , \" in on \" - s \" of uh \" - s .\nPhD A: Mmm , so if {disfmarker}\nPhD C: there 's {disfmarker} No those are actually\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: a lot of the errors I think are out of vocabulary ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: so is it like PZM is three words , it 's PZM ,\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: I mean there 's nothing There 's no language model for PZM or\nGrad E: Right . Ri - ri right .\nPhD C: um\nGrad E: Did you say there 's no language for PZM ?\nPhD C: No language model , I mean those {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Do you mean {disfmarker} so every time someone says PZM it 's an error ? Maybe we shouldn't say PZM in these meetings .\n",
      "PhD C: Well {disfmarker} well there 's all kinds of other stuff like Jimlet and I mean um anyway there {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah , that 's right , Jimlet .\nProfessor B: Well , we don't even know what that means ,\nPhD C: so {vocalsound} but this is really encouraging because\nProfessor B: so I\nGrad E: Yeah , that 's right .\n",
      "PhD C: so , I mean the bottom line is even though it 's not a huge amount of data um it should be uh reasonable to actually run recognition and be like within the scope of {disfmarker} of r reasonable s you know Switchboard this is like h about how well we do on Switchboard - two data with the Switchboard - one trained {disfmarker} mostly trained recognizer\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD C: and Switchboard - two is {disfmarker} got sort of a different population of speakers and a different topic\nGrad E: Excellent .\n",
      "PhD C: and they 're talking about things in the news that happened after Switchboard - one so there was @ @ so that 's great .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah so we 're in better shape than we were say when we did {disfmarker} had the ninety - three workshop\nPhD C: Um\nProfessor B: and we were all getting like seventy percent error on Switchboard .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Oh yeah\nProfessor B: you know\nPhD C: I mean this is really ,\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD C: and thanks to Andreas who , I mean this is a\nPhD A: Mmm .\nGrad E: Well especially for the very first run , I mean you {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh it 's the {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: eh um\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: yeah\nGrad E: the first run I ran of Switchboard I got a hundred twenty percent word error but\nPhD C: So and what al also this means is that\nPostdoc G: Right .\nPhD C: um\nGrad E: Not Switchboard ,\n",
      "PhD A: Well it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD C: I mean there 's a bunch of things in this note to various people\nGrad E: uh Broadcast News .\nPhD C: especially I guess um with Jane that {disfmarker} that would help for {disfmarker} since we have this new data now uh in order to go from the transcripts more easily to um just the words that the recognizer would use for scoring . I had to deal with some of it by hand but I think a lot of it can be automated s by {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Oh one thing I guess I didn't get so you know the language model was straight from {disfmarker} from bigram from Switchboard the acoustic models were also from Switchboard or {disfmarker} or\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So they didn't have anything from this acoustic data in yet ?\nPostdoc G: That 's amazing .\nGrad E: Yeah , so that 's great .\nPhD C: No .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD C: And actually {disfmarker} we actually um used Switchboard telephone bandwidth models\nPostdoc G: That 's amazing .\n",
      "PhD A: Well that 's {disfmarker} those are the only we ones there are ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: which I guess\nPhD D: I was just gonna say ,\nPhD C: so that 's the on that 's the only acoustic training data that we have a lot of\nPhD D: yeah .\nPhD A: I mean\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD A: Right .\nPhD C: and I guess Ramana , so a guy at SRI said that um there 's not a huge amount of difference going from {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: it 's {disfmarker} it 's not like we probably lose a huge amount but we won't know because we don't have any full band models for s conversational speech .\nPhD D: It 's probably not as bad as going f using full band models on telephone band speech\nPhD C: So .\nPhD A: Oh yeah .\nPhD C: Right .\nPhD D: right ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah ,\nPhD C: Right , so it 's {disfmarker} so\n",
      "Professor B: but for Broadcast News when we {disfmarker} we played around between the two there wasn't a huge loss .\nGrad E: Right , it was not a big deal .\nPhD C: Yeah\nPhD A: I should {disfmarker} I should say that {disfmarker} the language model is not just Switchboard\nPhD C: so I wou so that 's good .\nGrad E: Although combining em worked well .\nPhD A: it 's also {disfmarker} I mean there 's uh actually more data is from Broadcast News but with a little less weight\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: uh because\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\nPhD C: Like Trent Lott must have been from\nPhD A: mm - hmm , right .\nPhD C: I guess {vocalsound} Switchboard was before\nPhD A: Um By the way just {disfmarker} for fun we also ran ,\nPhD C: uh .\nProfessor B: Good point .\nPhD A: I mean our complete system starts by doing ge a gender detection\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: so just for the heck of it I ran that\nGrad E: And it said a hundred percent male ?\n",
      "PhD A: um and it might be reassuring for everybody to know that it got all the genders right .\nPhD C: The j\nPhD A: Yeah so\nGrad E: Oh it did ?\nPostdoc G: Oh that 's {disfmarker} I 'm glad .\nGrad E: It got all two genders ?\nPhD C: Yeah but you know Jane and Adam have you kn about equal performance\nPhD A: Yeah . Yes .\n",
      "PhD C: and uh and that 's interesting cuz I think the {disfmarker} their language models are quite different so and I {disfmarker} I 'm pretty sure from listening to Eric that , you know given the words he was saying and given his pronunciation that the reason that he 's so much worse is the lapel .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Right .\nPostdoc G: That makes a lot of sense ,\nPhD C: So it 's nice now if we can just sort of eliminate the lapel one when {disfmarker} when we get new microphones\nPostdoc G: yeah . Very possible .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I would bet on that too\nPhD C: that would be worth it\nProfessor B: cuz he certainly in that {disfmarker} when as a {disfmarker} as a burp user he was {disfmarker} he was a pretty uh strong one .\nPhD C: um Yeah\nGrad E: Sheep .\nPhD C: he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he sounded to me just from {disfmarker} he sounded like a ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: what 's it a sheep or a goat ?\n",
      "Professor B: Sheep .\nGrad E: A sheep .\nPhD C: Sheep ,\nGrad E: Baah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Sheep is good .\nPhD C: right . Sounded good .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Right so um so I guess the good news is that\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: and {disfmarker} and again this is without a lot of the sort of bells and whistles that we c can do with the SRI system and we 'll have more data and we can also start to maybe adapt the language models once we have enough meetings . So this is only twenty minutes of one meeting with no {disfmarker} no tailoring at all .\nPhD A: I mean clearly there are um with just a small amount of uh actual meeting transcriptions uh thrown into the language model you can probably do quite a bit better because the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . The voca the vocabulary especially\n",
      "Grad E: Or just dictionary .\nPhD C: yeah .\nPhD A: Not that much the vocabulary actually\nPhD C: Yeah , so .\nPhD A: I think {disfmarker} um well we have to see but {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . It 's pretty good um so then\nProfessor B: Have to add PZM and so on\nGrad E: And I have to try it on the far field mike\nProfessor B: but\nPhD C: PZM\nGrad E: yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: and then there 's things like for the transcription I got when someone has a digit in the transcript I don't know if they said , you know one one or eleven and I don't know if they said Tcl or TCL . there 's things like that where , you know the um we 'll probably have to ask the transcribers to indicate some of those kinds of things but in general it was really good and I 'm hoping {disfmarker} and this is {disfmarker} this is good news because that means the force alignments should be good and if the force alignments , I mean it 's good news anyway but if the force alignments are good we can get all kinds of information . For example about , you know prosodic information and speaker overlaps and so forth directly from the aligned times . Um so that 'll be something that actually in order to assess the forced alignment um we need s some linguists or some people to look at it and say are these boundaries in about the right place . Because it 's just gonna give us time marks\n",
      "PhD D: But you know {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Well we 've done that for one meeting .\nPhD C: so . For forced alignment .\nGrad E: Uh oh oh f not for words\nPhD C: Ye - right .\nGrad E: I 'm sorry just for overlaps is we did it for not {disfmarker} not for words .\nPhD C: Right . So this would be like if you take the words um you know and force align them on all the individual close talk uh close talking mikes then how good are these sort of in reality\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: and then I was thinking it {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So we might want to take twenty minutes and do a closer word level transcription . Maybe actually mark the word boundaries .\nPhD C: Oh or {disfmarker} i have someone look at the alignments uh maybe a linguist who can say um you know roughly if these are OK and how far away they are .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Um but I think it 's gotta be pretty good because otherwise the word recognition would be really b crummy .\nGrad E: Right , right .\n",
      "PhD C: It wouldn't necessarily be the other way around , if the wor word recognition was crummy the alignment might be OK but if the word recognition is this good the alignment should be pretty good . So that 's about it .\nProfessor B: I r\nPhD D: I wonder if this is a good thing or a bad thing though , I mean if we 're pr\nGrad E: That we 're starting so well ?\nPhD D: yeah if we 're producing a database that everybody 's gonna do well on\nProfessor B: Oh\n",
      "Grad E: Don't worry about it w d that 's that 's the close talking mikes . Try it on the P Z Ms and {disfmarker} and\nProfessor B: Yeah , which {disfmarker} I would {disfmarker} which {disfmarker} well n n n n\nPhD D: So the real value of the database is these ?\nPhD H: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah , abso well no but\n",
      "Professor B: I mean there 's still just the w the percentages and , I mean they 're not {disfmarker} a as we 've talked about before there 's probably overlaps\nPhD C: This i yeah . This is not that good .\n",
      "Professor B: there 's probably overlaps in {disfmarker} in uh in fair number in Switchboard as well so but {disfmarker} but there 's other phenomena , it 's a meeting , it 's a different thing and there 's lots of stuff to learn with the close talking mikes but uh yeah certainly I 'd like to see as soon as we could , I mean maybe get some of the glitches out of the way but soon as we could how well it does with say with the P Z Ms or maybe even one of the\nPhD C: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: and uh see if it 's , you know is it a hundred twenty percent or maybe it 's not maybe if with some adaptation you get this down to fifty percent or forty - five percent or something and {disfmarker} and then if for the PZM it 's seventy or something like that that 's actually something we could sort of work with a little bit\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: so\n",
      "PhD C: No I think it 's really , I mean this way we least have a baseline we know that for instance the transcripts are very good so once you can get to the words that the recognizer which is a total subset of the things you need to understand the {disfmarker} the text um yeah they 're pretty good so and {disfmarker} and it 's converting automatically from the XML to the chopping up the wave forms and so forth it 's not the case that the end of one utterance is in the next segment and things like that which we had more problems with in Switchboard so that 's good . And um let 's see there was one more thing I wanted to {disfmarker} to mention {disfmarker} I can't remember um Sorry can't remember . anyway it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: Congratulations is really great .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: well it was , I mean I really didn't do this myself\nGrad E: Yeah , it 's really good .\nPhD C: so Andreas set up this recognizer and {disfmarker} by the way the recognizer all the files I 'm moving to SRI and running everything there so I brought back just these result files and people can look at them um so\n",
      "PhD A: We {disfmarker} we talked about setting up the SRI recognizer here . That 's {disfmarker} you know if {disfmarker} if there are more machines um uh here plus people can {disfmarker} could run their own uh you know variants of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of the recognition {pause} runs um certainly doable . Um .\nProfessor B: Yeah and {disfmarker} well certainly if the recognition as opposed to training , yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Seems reasonable .\nPostdoc G: I need t Hmm . I need to ask one question .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Which is um so this issue {vocalsound} of the uh legalistic aspects of the pre - sent you know pre - adapted {disfmarker} Yeah , well , so what I mean is um the {disfmarker} uh the data that you take into SRI , first {disfmarker} first question , you 're maintaining it in {disfmarker} in a place that wouldn't be publicly readable that {disfmarker} that kind of stuff , right ?\nPhD A: U um\nPhD C: From the outside world or\n",
      "Postdoc G: By uh people uh who are not associated with this project .\nPhD A: Oh .\nGrad E: It 's human subjects issues , I told you about that .\nPhD C: Um oh .\nPostdoc G: Exactly .\nPhD C: Well OK we have n no names . Although I sh um\nGrad E: That {disfmarker} that 's not the issue ,\nPhD C: de audio data itself ?\nGrad E: it 's just the audio data itself , until people have a chance to edit it .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm , exactly .\n",
      "PhD C: Uh so well I can {disfmarker} I can protect my directories through there .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nPhD C: Right now they 're not {disfmarker} they 're in the speech group directories which {disfmarker} so I will {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Great .\nPhD C: I didn't know that actually .\nProfessor B: Yeah so we just have to go through this process of having people approve the transcriptions ,\nPhD C: Yeah OK .\nProfessor B: say it 's OK .\nPhD C: Right OK .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Yeah , we had to get them to approve em and then i cuz {disfmarker} cuz the other question I was gonna ask is if we 're having um you know it 's but this {disfmarker} this meeting that you have , no problem cuz I {disfmarker} I well I mean I {disfmarker} I speak for myself\nGrad E: It 's us .\n",
      "Postdoc G: but {disfmarker} but I think that we didn't do anything that but well anyway so {vocalsound} uh I wouldn't be too concerned about it with respect to that although we should clear it with Eric and Dan of course but these results are based on data which haven't had the uh haven't had the chance to be reviewed by the subjects\nPhD C: That 's true .\n",
      "Postdoc G: and I don't know how that stands , I mean if you {disfmarker} if you get fantastic results and it 's involving {comment} data which {disfmarker} which later end up being lessened by , you know certain elisions , then I don't know but I wanted to raise that issue ,\nProfessor B: Well we ,\nPostdoc G: that 's all .\nProfessor B: I mean once we get all this streamlined it may be sh it {disfmarker} hopefully it will be fairly quick but we get the transcriptions , people approve them and so on it 's just that we 're\n",
      "Grad E: Alright we need to work at a system for doing that approval so that we can send people the transcripts\nPostdoc G: Great .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad E: and get back any bleeps that they want\nPhD C: Yeah actually the bleeps are also an issue I thought .\nProfessor B: It 's gonna be a rare thing that there 's a bleep for the most part .\n",
      "PhD A: U uh actually I had a question about the downsampling , um I don't know who , I mean how this was done but is {disfmarker} is there {disfmarker} are there any um {vocalsound} issues with downsampling\nPhD C: Don did this .\nPhD A: because I know that the recognizer um that we use h can do it sort of on the fly um so we wouldn't have to have it eh you know do it uh explicitly beforehand . And is there any um i are there other d sev uh is there more than one way to do the downsampling where one might be better than another ?\n",
      "Grad F: There are lots of w {vocalsound} there are lots of ways to do the downsampling um different filters to put on ,\nPhD A: OK . Right . OK .\nGrad F: like anti - aliasing stuff .\nPhD A: So {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} th\nGrad E: I don't think we even know which one I assume you 're using syncat to do it ?\nGrad F: No , I 'm using uh SN SND uh are resample .\nGrad E: Or sound resample ?\nPhD C: Re - re ref\nGrad E: Resample .\nPhD C: yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah and Dan 's archaic acronyms .\nGrad F: RSMP . Yeah , I don't really .\nPhD C: Missing all the vowels .\nGrad F: I just {disfmarker} yeah I found it .\nPhD C: Some of the vowels ,\nGrad E: Not all of them .\nPhD C: almost all the vowels , that 's the hard part .\nPhD A: So {disfmarker} so the other thing we should try is to just take the original wave forms ,\nGrad E: And a few of the consonants .\nPhD A: I mean segment them but not downsample them .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah we could {disfmarker} we could try that and {disfmarker} and compare\nPhD A: And {disfmarker} and feed them to {disfmarker} feed them to the SRI recognizer and see if {disfmarker} if the SRI front - end does something .\nGrad F: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad E: I suspect that 's sort of premature optimization , but Sure .\nPhD C: We can try it . I {disfmarker} I only downsampled them first cuz I was\nPhD A: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: I mean that 's just one line {disfmarker} that 's one line of code to comment at\nPhD C: yeah\nPhD A: Right and {disfmarker} and it doesn't {disfmarker} is no more work {vocalsound} for um you know for us .\nGrad F: so\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD C: Well they 're just bigger to transfer , that 's why I s downsampled them before but\nPhD A: Well but they 're only twice as big so\n",
      "PhD C: Well I mean that was {disfmarker} if it 's the same then we can downsample here\nPhD A: I mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's just a\nPhD C: but if it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Although those eighty meg files take a while to copy into my directories\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad F: so , but no , I mean it 's not {disfmarker} i it wouldn't be a problem if you 're interested in it {disfmarker}\nPhD C: We could try that .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah I mean it would be uh you know it would probably take uh about um you know\nGrad F: it would {disfmarker}\nPhD A: minus the transfer time it would {disfmarker} it would take uh you know ten minutes to try and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad E: It 's about a fifty minute drive , right ?\nPhD A: And {disfmarker} and if for some reason we see that it works better then we might investigate why\nPhD C: Well it takes more disk space too so I was just {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: and , you know , what {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad F: Mmm . In the front - end we could do that .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So you just train {disfmarker} just different filters\nGrad F: Yeah , I {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: and so you 're just wondering whether the filter is\nGrad F: Yeah , I can imagine it would be {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right . Right .\nPhD C: So we could try that with this particular twenty minutes of speech and sort of see if there 's any differences .\n",
      "Grad F: I mean I guess there 's some {disfmarker}\nPhD A: You know a at some point someone might have optimized whatever filtering is done for the actual recognition um performance .\nGrad F: Hmm .\nPhD A: So in other words right ,\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD A: so\nGrad E: It just seems to me that , you know small changes to the language model and the vocabulary will so swamp that that it may be premature to worry about that . I mean so one is a half a percent better than the other I don't think that gives you any information .\n",
      "PhD C: Well it 's just as easy to {disfmarker} to give you the sixteen K individual ,\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD C: it was just more disk space you know for storing them\nProfessor B: Are you {disfmarker} are you using uh uh mel cepstrum or PLP over there ?\nPhD C: so\nPhD A: Mel cepstrum .\nProfessor B: So probably doesn't matter .\nPhD C: Well we could try .\nGrad F: There 's {disfmarker} there 's your answer .\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker} but it wouldn't hurt to try ,\n",
      "PhD C: Could easily try\nPhD A: That 's what I would assume but you never know ,\nProfessor B: yeah .\nPhD C: so\nPhD A: you know .\nProfessor B: Sure . No the reason I say this\nPostdoc G: Just {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: PLP uses uh auto - regressive filtering and uh modeling and so it can be sensitive to the kind of filtering that you 're doing\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but uh uh mel cepstrum uh might not {disfmarker} b you wouldn't expect to be so much but\n",
      "PhD C: Well we can try it if you generate like the same set of files just up to that point where we stopped anyway and just sti stick them somewhere\nGrad F: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's really not a problem .\nPhD A: Actually , no .\nPhD C: and I 'll rerun it with\nPhD A: Don't stop . Don't stop at that part because we 're actually using the entire conversation to estimate the speaker parameters ,\nGrad F: Keep going . Yeah .\nPhD A: so shouldn't use {disfmarker} you should s you know , get\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , I mean I 'll {disfmarker} I have to do is eh e the reference file would stay the same ,\nPhD C: OK .\nPhD A:  Right .\nGrad F: it 's just the individual segments would be approximately twice as long\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPhD C: Right . Right .\nGrad F: and I could just replace them with the bigger ones in the directory ,\nPhD A: Right .\nPhD C: I mean I corrected all {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: that 's not a problem .\n",
      "PhD C: I mean I hand - edited the whole {disfmarker} the whole meeting so that can be run it 's just {disfmarker} Once we get the {disfmarker} the bug out .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPostdoc G: One {disfmarker} one question which is I {disfmarker} I had the impression {comment} from this {disfmarker} from this meeting that w that I transcribed that um that there was already automatic downsampling occurring ,\nPhD A: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc G: is that I thought that in order to\nGrad E: Yep .\n",
      "Postdoc G: so it was {disfmarker} so it 's like there 's already down\nGrad E: There 's one level that 's already happening right here .\nProfessor B: This is being recorded at forty - eight kilohertz . Which is more that anybody needs\nPostdoc G: OK .\nGrad E: Right .\nGrad F: Oh .\nGrad E: And it gets downsampled to sixteen .\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: so\nPhD C: And that 's actually said in your meeting ,\nGrad F: Hmm .\nPostdoc G: Oh OK .\nPhD C: that 's how I know that .\n",
      "Postdoc G: That 's exactly , and that 's how I know it .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: I {disfmarker} I {vocalsound} It 's like are we downsampling to sixteen ?\nProfessor B: It 's a digital audio orientation for the board\nPhD C: Right .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor B: it 's in the monitor so it 's\nPhD C: Thank God it 's not {vocalsound} more than that .\nGrad E: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: And I have no idea what filter it 's using ,\nGrad F: Is eight kilohertz {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is eighty kilohertz generally accepted as like standard for voice ?\nGrad E: so\nProfessor B: For telephone stuff .\nGrad E: Telephone .\nPhD D: Telephone .\nGrad F: Yeah that 's what I was gonna say , I mean like {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's just that they were operating from Switchboard which was a completely telephone database\nGrad F: so Oh , I see , so .\n",
      "Professor B: and so that was a standard for that sixteen s\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad E: So sixteen seems to be pretty typical for with this sort of thing .\nProfessor B: Sixteen is more common for {disfmarker} for uh broadband stuff that isn't {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Right .\nGrad E: That isn't music .\nProfessor B: that isn't music and isn't telephone ,\nPhD C: And I guess if you 're comparing like {disfmarker} uh if you wanna run recognition on the PZM stuff you would want you don't want to downsample the wh that\nProfessor B: yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Why is that ?\nProfessor B: I don't know .\nPhD C: right ? Well I don I mean if it 's any better\nProfessor B: No actually I would think that you would {disfmarker} you would get better {disfmarker} you 'd get better high frequencies in the local mike .\nGrad E: All the way around I 'd think .\nProfessor B: Uh but who knows ? I mean we do {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we wanna find all this stuff out ,\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah well we could try it .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: we don't know .\nGrad E: We 're gonna have plenty of low frequency on the P Z Ms with the fans .\nPhD C: OK . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Uh yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Oh yeah there was just one more thing I wanted to say which is totally unrelated to the recognition except that um well {disfmarker} well it 's sort of related but um good news also uh I got {disfmarker} well Chuck Fillmore agreed to record meetings but he had too many people in his meetings and that 's too bad cuz they 're very animated and but uh Jerry also agreed so uh we 're starting on {disfmarker} on\nPhD A: They 're less animated .\n",
      "PhD C: Well but he has fewer {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he won't have more than eight and it 's a meeting on even deeper understanding , EDU , so that sounds interesting . As a compliment to our front - end meeting\nGrad E: Dot EDU ?\n",
      "PhD C: and um so that 's gonna start Monday and one of the things that I was realizing is um it would be really great if anyone has any ideas on some kind of time synchronous way that people in the meeting can make a comment to the person whose gonna transcribe it or {disfmarker} or put a {vocalsound} push a button or something when they wanna make a note about \" oh boy you should probably erase those last few \" or uh \" wait I want this not to be recorded now \" or uh something like that s\nProfessor B: Weren't we gonna do something with a pad at one point ?\n",
      "Postdoc G: The cross pads ?\nGrad E: Yeah , we could do it with the cross pads .\nPhD C: Cuz I was thinking you know if {disfmarker} if the person who sets up the meeting isn't there and it 's a group that we don't know um and this came up talking to {disfmarker} to Jerry also that you know is there any way for them to indicate {disfmarker} to make sure that the qu request that they have that they make explicitly get addressed somehow\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: so I don't know if anyone has ideas or {disfmarker} you could even write down \" oh it 's about three twenty five and \" {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well what I was just suggesting is {disfmarker} is we have these {disfmarker} this cross pad just for this purpose\nGrad E: Yeah , and use that .\nProfessor B: and just use that\nGrad E: Not a bad idea .\nProfessor B: and if we sink it in {disfmarker}\nPhD C: That would be great .\nProfessor B: The other thing is eh\nPhD C: That be great .\n",
      "Professor B: I don't know if you know this or if it 's a question for the mail to Dan but is this thing of two eight channel boards a maximum for this setup or could we go to a third board ?\nGrad E: I don't know . I don't know . I 'll send mail to Dan and ask . I {disfmarker} I think that it 's the maximum we can do without a lot of effort because it 's one board with two digital channels .\nProfessor B: Oh it is one board .\n",
      "Grad E: E eight each . So it {disfmarker} it takes two fibers in to the one board . And so w I think if we wanna do that {disfmarker} more than that we 'd have to have two boards , and then you have the synchronization issue .\nProfessor B: But that 's a question because that would {disfmarker} if it was possible cuz it is i you know already we have a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a group of people in this room that cannot all be miked\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: and it 's not just cuz we haven't been to the store , right it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: What is the limit on each of those f fiber channels , is it the\nGrad E: Eight .\nPhD D: It just {disfmarker} it 's eight channels come in , does it have do with the sampling rate ?\nGrad E: It 's eight . I have no idea . But each {disfmarker} each fiber channel has eight {disfmarker} eight channels and there are two ch two fibers that go in to the card .\nProfessor B: It might be a hard limitation ,\n",
      "Grad E: So\nProfessor B: I mean one thing is it {disfmarker} the whole thing as I said is {disfmarker} is all structured in terms of forty - eight kilohertz sampling so that pushes requirements up a bit\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: but\nPhD D: I was just wondering if {disfmarker} if that could change .\nGrad E: I mean then we 'd also have to get another ADD and another mixer and all that sort of stuff .\nPhD D: If we could drop that .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: So I {disfmarker} I 'll send a mail to Dan and ask him .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: OK on the uh are we done with that ? So the oth topic is uh getting more mikes and different mikes , so I got a quote um We can fit {disfmarker} we have room for one more wireless and the wireless , this unit here is three fifty {disfmarker} three hundred fifty dollars , it {disfmarker} I didn't realize but we also have to get a tuner {disfmarker} the receiver {disfmarker} the other end , that 's uh four thirty um and then also\nPhD C: For {disfmarker} for each ?\nPhD D: Wow .\n",
      "PhD C: I mean the tuner is four thirty for each .\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD C: Wow .\nGrad E: And we just need one more so {disfmarker} so\nProfessor B: Yeah at least w we got the good ones .\nGrad E: Yeah . So that 's you know something like seven hundred eighty bucks for one more of these .\nProfessor B: Yeah . OK .\nGrad E: Um and then also um It turns out that the connector that this thing uses is proprietary of Sony\nPhD D: Oh .\nGrad E: believe it or not and Sony only sells this headset .\nPostdoc G: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad E: So if we wanna use a different set {disfmarker} headset the solution that the guy suggested and they {disfmarker} apparently lots of people have done is Sony will sell you the jack with just wires coming out the end and then you can buy a headset that has pigtail and solder it yourself . And that 's the other solution and so the jacks are forty bucks apiece and the {disfmarker} he recommended um a crown CM three eleven AE headset for two hundred bucks apiece .\nProfessor B: There isn't this some sort of thing that plugs in , you actually have to go and do the soldering yourself ?\n",
      "Grad E: Becau - the reason is the only {disfmarker} only thing you can get that will plug into this is this mike or just the connector .\nProfessor B: No I understand . The reason I ask is these sort of handmade uh wiring jobs fall apart in use so the other thing is to see if we can uh get them to do a custom job and put it together for this .\nGrad E: Oh I 'm sure they would , they would just charge us ,\nPhD D: Well , and they 'd probably want quantity too ,\nGrad E: so .\nProfessor B: Well\nPhD D: they 'd\n",
      "Professor B: no they 'll just charge us more , so it 's {disfmarker} this\nPhD D: Mmm .\nGrad E: So {disfmarker} so my question is should we go ahead and get na nine identical head - mounted crown mikes ?\nProfessor B: Not before having one come here and have some people try it out .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor B: Because there 's no point in doing that if it 's not gonna be any better .\nGrad E: So why don't we get one of these with the crown with a different headset ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: And {disfmarker} and see if that works .\nProfessor B: And see if it 's preferable and if it is then we 'll get more .\nPhD C: Comfort .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Cuz I mean I think the microphones are OK it 's just the {disfmarker} the\nGrad E: Right , it 's just they 're not comfortable to wear .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD C: Could make our own handbands and\n",
      "Grad E: Um , and he said they don't have any of these in stock but they have them in LA and so it will take about a week to get here .\nProfessor B: Yeah well it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Um so OK to just go order ?\nProfessor B: We 're in this for the long term , yeah . Just order it .\nGrad E: OK\nPhD C: It 's a lot of money for a handband .\nGrad E: and who is the contact if I wanna do an invoice\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad E: cuz I think that 's how we did it before .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh we 'll do this off - line , yeah .\nGrad F: It 's a long time to get from LA .\nGrad E: OK . And then nine channels is the maximum we can do , so .\nProfessor B: Uh y right cuz {disfmarker} so one is for the daisy chain so that 's fifteen instead of sixteen\nGrad E: Without getting more stuff .\nProfessor B: and there 's six on the table so that 's nine .\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD C: Can I ask a really dumb question ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} is there any way we can have you know like a {disfmarker} a wireless microphone that you pass around to the people who you know the extra people for the times they wanna talk that {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Probably .\nProfessor B: That 's a good idea .\nPhD C: I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: That 's not a dumb question , it 's a good idea ,\nPhD C: Well I mean {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Like uh like you know Jerry Springer thing ,\nProfessor B: yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: I 'm just not sure how we would handle that in the\nGrad F: That 's like the Conch .\nPhD C: Well but {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Like at conferences\nPhD A: you know r\nPhD C: well but there might be a way to say that there are gonna be these different people\nGrad F: See , look .\nPhD C: um and I don't know identifying somehow ?\nPhD D: so nail the chairs down .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah , somehow .\nPhD C: You know I was just thinking of Jerry Springer .\n",
      "Grad E: It 's not a bad idea .\nProfessor B: No that {disfmarker} no {disfmarker} no\nPhD A: \nProfessor B: that 's a very {disfmarker} if we can't get another board and even if we can I have a feeling they 'll be some work .\nPhD D: The Springer mike .\nPhD C: I mean for the few times that you might wanna have that .\nProfessor B: Let 's figure that we have eight which are set up and then there 's a ninth which is passed around to {disfmarker}\nGrad E: A hand - held , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: that 's a good idea\nPhD D: Infinite expansion .\nProfessor B: Right . Kind of rules out overlap but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but uh\nPhD C: Well or also for you know if people are not\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Well we could just hand around the lapel .\nProfessor B: Uh no {disfmarker} no that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Rather than get a {disfmarker}\nPhD C: No not the lapel .\nGrad E: do you want a handset ?\nProfessor B: No .\n",
      "Grad E: Well I mean is the {disfmarker} is the hand - held really any better ?\nPhD D: Liz hates the lapel .\nProfessor B: Yes .\nPhD C: I don't know\nGrad E: OK .\nPhD C: but I d I know the lapel is really suboptimal .\nProfessor B: No it {disfmarker} no it depends on the hand - held\nGrad E: Is awful ?\n",
      "Professor B: but hand {disfmarker} many hand - helds are built wi with sort of uh anti - shock sort of things so that it {disfmarker} it is less uh susceptible to hand noises . If you hold the lapel mike i you just get all k sorts of junk .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Right . I mean the ones they really pass around must be sort of OK .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor B: so\nGrad E: So I wonder if they have one that will hook up .\nProfessor B: Yeah . They have {disfmarker} What ?\n",
      "Grad E: I wonder if they have one that will hook up to this or whether again we 'll have to wire it ourselves .\nPhD D: Well , you wouldn't want it to hook there you 'd just want it to hook into the receiver in the other room , right ?\nProfessor B: No that 's uh {disfmarker} you need a transmitter .\nGrad E: What ?\nPhD D: Is th isn't that built into the mike ?\nProfessor B: Oh I see . Get a {disfmarker} get a different radio , yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah just these ones that they pass around with no you know wireless\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . But you need a ra but it has to correspond to the receiver .\nPhD D: Have a little antenna coming out the bottom .\nGrad E: It 's gonna be much easier to get one of these and just plug in a mike , isn't it ?\nPhD D: But then the mike has to h\nPhD A: Do you have to hand it around and if you have two pieces of\nProfessor B: No no {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Right .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD A: \n",
      "Professor B: so right , so this is a good point , so yeah you have these {disfmarker} these mikes with a little antenna on the end right ?\nGrad E: OK . And do you think you would be able to use the same receiver ?\nProfessor B: I don't know . You 'll have to check with them ,\nGrad E: OK I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll ask .\nProfessor B: yeah . But that 's {disfmarker} that 's a great idea\nPhD D: It 's just a frequency .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: and then just sort of have that as the {disfmarker} and then you can have groups of twenty people or whatever and {disfmarker} and uh\nPhD C: Yeah because there 's only I mean as Andreas pointed out actually I think in the large {disfmarker} the larger the group the less interaction {disfmarker} the less people are talking um over each other {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Pretty soon .\nPhD D: Mmm , yeah .\nPhD C: it just {disfmarker} there might be a lot of people that speak once or twice and\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: Um Gotta go .\nProfessor B: Off you go , yeah .\nGrad E: OK so I guess people who have to leave can leave and do we have anything else to discuss or should we just do digits ?\nPostdoc G: I {disfmarker} I thought of some extra {disfmarker} a couple of extra things I 'd like to mention .\nGrad E: OK .\nPostdoc G: One of them is to give you a status in terms of the transcriptions so far . So um as of last night um I 'd assigned twelve hours and they 'd finished nine\nGrad E: uh Yep ,\n",
      "Postdoc G: and my goal was to have eleven done by the end of the month , I think that by tomorrow we 'll have ten .\nPhD C: Uh it 's great {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Pretty close ,\nPostdoc G: So they 're still working .\nProfessor B: that 's good .\nPhD C: I j and this {disfmarker} I got this email from Jane at like two in the morning or something\nPhD D: Wow .\nGrad E: that 's good .\nPhD C: so it 's really great\nPostdoc G: It 's working out , thanks .\n",
      "PhD C: It 's really great .\nPostdoc G: Thanks . And then um also an idea for another meeting , which would be to have the transcribers talk about the data It 's sort of a {disfmarker} a little bit {disfmarker} a little bit\nPhD C: That 's a great idea .\nProfessor B: Super idea .\nGrad E: Yep , that 'd be very interesting .\nPhD C: That 's a great idea cuz I 'd like to g have it recorded so that we can remember all the little things ,\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: I 'd love to hear what they have to say .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nPhD C: that 's a great idea .\nPhD D: So if we got them to talk about this meeting , it would be a meta {disfmarker} meta meeting .\nPostdoc G: Yeah . Yeah , exa {vocalsound} exactly I guess {disfmarker} nested several layers ,\nProfessor B: Now you have eight transcribers and there 's ten of us\nPostdoc G: but\nProfessor B: so how do we do this , is the only thing .\nPhD C: Or just have them talk amongst themselves .\n",
      "PhD D: Have them have their own meeting .\nPhD C: And have\nPostdoc G: Well that 's what I 'm thinking ,\nProfessor B: Oh .\nPostdoc G: yeah . Have them talk about the data and they {disfmarker} and they 've made observations to me\nPhD C: that would be great .\n",
      "Postdoc G: like they say uh you know this meeting that we think has so much overlap , in fact it does but there are other groups of similar size that have very little , you know it 's part of it 's {disfmarker} it 's the norm of the group and all that and they have various observations that would be fun , I think .\nPhD C: That 's a great idea .\nGrad E: Yeah , I 'd like to hear what they s say .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nPhD C: Be great .\n",
      "Professor B: So maybe we could {disfmarker} they could have a meeting more or less without us that {disfmarker} to do this and we should record it\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: and then maybe one or two of them could come to one of these meetings and {disfmarker} and could you know could tell us about it .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad E: Give us a status .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Oh good . OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} they will get to transcribe their own meeting but they also get paid for having a break\nGrad E: That would be weird .\nPostdoc G: What {disfmarker} what yeah that 's right .\nPhD C: and I think that 's a good idea ,\nPostdoc G: Yeah exactly , yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: get them involved .\nPostdoc G: Great .\nPhD C: Um that 's a great idea .\nPostdoc G: Great .\nProfessor B: Super .\n",
      "PhD C: I 'm really sorry I have to g no I have to go as well .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And then I wanted to also um say something about the Fiscus uh uh John {disfmarker} John Fiscus visit tomorrow . And Which is to say that w it 'll be from nine to one that I 'm going to uh uh offer the organization {disfmarker} allow him to uh adjust it if he wishes but to be basically in three parts , the acoustic part coming first which would be basically the room engineering aspects um other things and he 'll be also presenting what NIST is doing and {disfmarker} and uh then uh number two would be sort of a the {disfmarker} the transcription process so this would be a focus on like presegmentation and the modifications to the {disfmarker} the multitrans interface which allows more refined encoding of the beginnings and ends of the overlapping segments which uh Dave Gelbart 's been doing and then um uh and of course the presegmentation Thilo 's been doing and then um the third part would {disfmarker} and again he has some stuff that 's i relevant with respect to NIST and then the third one would be focus on transcription standards so at NIST he 's interested in this establishment of a global encoding standard I guess I would say and I want it , you know k yeah see what they 're doing and also present what {disfmarker} what we 've chosen as ours and {disfmarker} and discuss that kind of thing . And so but he 's only here until until one and actually we 're thinking of noon being uh lunch time so basically hoping that we can get as much of this done as possible before noon . S\n",
      "Professor B: OK .\nPostdoc G: And everybody who wants to attend is welcome . So\nGrad E: Oh , where you 're gonna meet ?\nPostdoc G: yeah . Here mostly but I 've also reserved the BARCO room um eh to figure out how that works in terms of like maybe having a live demonstration .\nProfessor B: OK but the nine o ' cl nine o ' clock will be i be in here . Yeah , OK .\nPostdoc G: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: I assume we 're not gonna try to record it ?\nPostdoc G: Oh I think that would be hard , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , I think just adds {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Alright .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Um good .\nPostdoc G: Thank you though , uh - huh .\nProfessor B: So maybe do digits and recess ?\nGrad E: Unless there 's anything else ?\nPostdoc G: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: Do digital ones ?\nProfessor B: Uh OK .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad E: Uh should y we make him wear Andreas ' mike or would that just be too confusing ?\nProfessor B: Yeah . No I don't think it 's confusing . Well , it doesn't confuse me .\n",
      "Postdoc G: When we do this in the key {disfmarker} in the key {disfmarker} in the key it has to indicate that channel change ,\nPhD D: Does it mess up the forms ?\nPostdoc G: right ?\nGrad E: Uh yeah I just don't know how we would do that , so . I mean other than free {disfmarker} free form .\nPostdoc G: Well i have a time mark .\nPhD D: The on switch is here on the {disfmarker} on the top there .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad E: And just clip it to your collar .\n",
      "Professor B: That 's fine .\n",
      "Grad J: OK , my name is uh Espen Eriksen . I 'm a Norwegian . Um uh this is my second semester at Berkeley . Currently I 'm taking uh my first graduate level courses in DSP and um when I come back to Norway I 'm gonna continue with the {disfmarker} more of a research project work {disfmarker} kind of work . So this semester I 'm starting up with a {disfmarker} with a small project through uh Dave Gelbart which I 'm taking a course with I got in touch with him and he told me about this project . So with the help of uh Dan Ellis I 'm gonna do small project associated to this . What I 'm gonna try to do is uh use {disfmarker} use ech echo cancellation to uh to handle the periods where you have overlapping talk . To try to do something about that . So currently I 'm um I 'm just reading up on echo cancellation , s looking into the theory behind that and then uh hopefully I get some results . So it {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a project goes over the course of one semester .\n",
      "Grad E: Great .\nGrad J: So I 'm just here today to introduce myself . Tell about I 'll be {disfmarker} I 'll be working on this .\nGrad E: And are you staying at Berkeley or is {disfmarker} are you just here a semester ?\nGrad J: This is my second semester and last .\nGrad E: Ah second and last ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad J: So I leave\nProfessor B: He 's in the {disfmarker} he 's in the cour two two five D course .\nGrad J: Yeah , I 'm in Morgan 's course ,\n"
    ],
    "length": 16635,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 51,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The group discussed the first version of the Bayes-net used to work out a user's intentions when asking for directions from a navigation device. Three intentions were identified: Vista (to view), Enter (to visit) and Tango (to approach). The structure of the belief-net comprises, firstly, a feature layer, which includes linguistic, discourse and world knowledge information that can be gleaned from the data. It is possible for these variables to form thematic clusters( eg \"entrance\", \"type of object\", \"verb\"), each one with a separate middle layer.  At this stage, all the actual probabilities are ad-hoc and hand-coded. However, there has been progress in the design and organisation of experiments, that will eventually provide data more useful and appropriate for this task.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad C: Nice .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad A: to {disfmarker} to handle .\nGrad D: Is that good ?\nGrad C: Right . Yeah , I 've have never handled them .\nGrad B: Goats eat cans , to my understanding . Tin cans .\nGrad D: Did we need to do these things ?\nGrad C: Wow .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad B: Could I hit {disfmarker} hit F - seven to do that ? on the {disfmarker} Robert ?\nGrad A: I 'm\nGrad B: Oh , the remote will do it OK .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: Cuz I 'm already up there ?\nGrad A: in control here .\nGrad B: You are in control . Already ?\nGrad D: Wow , we 're all so high tech here . Yet another p PowerPoint presentation .\nGrad B: I {disfmarker} Well it makes it easier {pause} to do\nGrad D: Certainly does .\nGrad B: So , {pause} we were {disfmarker} Ah !\nGrad C: Johno , where are you ?\nGrad B: OK . So , Let 's see . Which one of these buttons will do this for me ? Aha ! OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Should you go back to the first one ?\nGrad B: Do I wanna go back to the first one ?\nGrad C: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad D: I 'm sorry I {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Well , I mean , {pause} just to {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK . Introduce .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , um {vocalsound} Well , \" the search for the middle layer \" . It 's basically uh talks about uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It just refers to the fact that uh {pause} one of main things we had to do was to {pause} decide what the intermediate sort of nodes were ,\nGrad D: I can read ! I 'm kidding .\nGrad C: you know , because {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: But if you really want to find out what it 's about you have to {pause} click on the little {pause} light bulb .\n",
      "Grad B: Although I 've {disfmarker} I 've never {disfmarker} I don't know what the light bulb is for . I didn't i install that into my {pause} PowerPoint presentation .\nGrad A: It opens the Assistant that tells you that the font type is too small .\nGrad B: Ah .\nGrad A: Do you wanna try ?\nGrad D: Ach u\nGrad B: I 'd prefer not to .\nGrad A: OK . Continue .\nGrad D: It 's a needless good idea . Is that the idea ?\nGrad A: Why are you doing this in this mode and not in the presentation mode ?\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: Because I 'm gonna switch to the JavaBayes program\nGrad A: Oh ! OK . Of course . Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: and then {pause} if I do that it 'll mess everything up .\nGrad D: I was wondering .\nGrad B: Is that OK ?\nGrad D: Yeah , it 's OK .\nGrad A: Sure .\nGrad C: Can you maximize the window ?\nGrad D: Proceed .\nGrad B: You want me to {disfmarker} Wait , what do you want me to do ?\n",
      "Grad C: Can you maximize the window so all that stuff on the side isn't {disfmarker} doesn't appear ?\nGrad A: No , It 's OK . It 's {disfmarker} It 'll work .\nGrad B: Well I can do that , but then I have to end the presentation in the middle so I can go back to open up\nGrad C: OK , fine .\nGrad B: Here , let 's see if I can {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Alright .\nGrad D: Very nice .\nGrad B: Is that better ? OK .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: Uh {disfmarker} I 'll also get rid of this \" Click to add notes \" . OK .\nGrad D: Perfect .\nGrad B: So then the features we decided {disfmarker} or we decided we were {disfmarker} talked about , right ? Uh the {disfmarker} the prosody , the discourse , {pause} verb choice . You know . We had a list of things like \" to go \" and \" to visit \" and what not . The \" landmark - iness \" of uh {disfmarker} I knew you 'd like that .\nGrad D: Nice coinage .\n",
      "Grad B: Thank you . uh , of a {disfmarker} of a building . Whether the and this i we actually have a separate feature but I decided to put it on the same line {pause} for space . \" Nice walls \" {vocalsound} which we can look up because I mean if you 're gonna {pause} get real close to a building in the Tango mode , right , there 's gotta be a reason for it . And it 's either because you 're in route to something else or you wanna look at the walls . The context , which in this case we 've limited to {pause} \" business person \" , \" tourist \" , or {pause} \" unknown \" , the time of day , and \" open to suggestions \" , isn't actually a feature . It 's {pause} \" We are open to suggestions . \"\n",
      "Grad D: Right . can I just ask the nice walls part of it is that {vocalsound} uh , in this particular domain {disfmarker} you said {disfmarker} be {disfmarker} i it could be on two different lines but are you saying that in this particular domain it happens the {disfmarker} that landmark - iness cor is correlated with\nGrad B: Oh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: No . We have a separate\nGrad B: They 're separate things .\nGrad C: feature .\nGrad D: their being nice w\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: I either could put \" nice walls \" on its own line or \" open to suggestions \" off the slide .\nGrad C: Like you could have a p\nGrad D: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} By \" nice \" you mean {disfmarker}\nGrad C: You {disfmarker} Like you could have a post office with uh {disfmarker} you know , nice murals or something .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad B: Or one time I was at this {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: So \" nice walls \" is a stand in for like architecturally it , uh {disfmarker} significant\nGrad B: But see the thing is , if it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Architecturally appealing from the outside .\nGrad D: or something like that . OK .\nGrad B: Yeah but if it 's architecturally significant you might be able to see it from {disfmarker} Like you m might be able to \" Vista \" it ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: right ? And be able to {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Appreciate it .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah , versus , like , I was at this place in Europe where they had little carvings of , like , dead people on the walls or something .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: I don't remember w\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad B: It was a long time ago .\nGrad D: There 's a lot of those .\nGrad B: But if you looked at it real close , you could see the {disfmarker} the in intricacy of the {disfmarker} of the walls .\nGrad D: OK . So that count as {disfmarker} counts as a nice wall .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: The {disfmarker} OK . Right .\nGrad A: The {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Something you want to inspect at close range {pause} because it 's interesting .\nGrad B: Exactly .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad B: Robert ?\n",
      "Grad A: Well there {disfmarker} there is a term {pause} that 's often used . That 's \" saliency \" , or the \" salience \" of an object . And I was just wondering whether that 's the same as what you describe as \" landmark - iness \" . But it 's really not . I mean an object can be very salient\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad A: but not a landmark at all .\nGrad D: Not a landmark at all . There 's landmark for um , touristic reasons and landmark for I don't know navigational reasons or something .\nGrad A: Yep .\nGrad B: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , we meant , uh , touristic reasons .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: OK . but you can imagine maybe wanting the oth both kinds of things there for different um , goals .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: Right ?\n",
      "Grad B: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Tourist - y landmarks also happen to be {disfmarker} Wouldn't {disfmarker} couldn't they also be {disfmarker} They 're not exclusive groups , are they ? Like {pause} non - tourist - y landmarks and\nGrad A: Or it can be als\nGrad B: direct navigational {disfmarker}\nGrad D: They 're not mutually exclusive ?\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad D: Right . Definitely .\n",
      "Grad B: OK , So our initial idea was not very satisfying , {pause} because {disfmarker} uh our initial idea was basically all the features pointing to the output node . Uh .\nGrad D: So , a big flat structure .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: Right ?\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad B: And uh , so we {disfmarker} Reasons being , you know , it 'd be a pain to set up all the probabilities for that . If we moved onto the next step and did learning of some sort , uh according Bhaskara we 'd be handicapped . I don't know belief - nets very well .\n",
      "Grad C: Well usually , I mean , you know , N {disfmarker} If you have N features , then it 's two to the N {disfmarker} {pause} or exponential in N .\nGrad B: And they wouldn't look pretty . So .\nGrad C: Yeah , they 'd all be like pointing to the one node .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Uh . So then our next idea was to add a middle layer , right ? So the thinking behind that was {vocalsound} we have the features that we 've drawn {pause} from the communication of some {disfmarker} Like , the someone s The person at the screen is trying to communicate some abstract idea , like \" I 'm {disfmarker} \" the {disfmarker} the abstract idea being \" I am a tourist I want to go {pause} to this place . \" Right ? So we 're gonna set up features along the lines of where they want to go and {pause} what they 've said previously and whatnot . And then we have {pause} the means {vocalsound} that they should use . Right ? but the middle thing , we were thinking along the lines of maybe trying to figure out , like , the concept of whether they 're a tourist {pause} or {pause} whether they 're running an errand or something like that along those lines . Or {disfmarker} Yes , we could things we couldn't extract the {disfmarker} from the data , the hidden variables . Yes , good . So then the hidden variables {disfmarker} hair variables we came up with were whether someone was on a tour , running an errand , or whether they were in a hurry , because we were thinking uh , if they were in a hurry there 'd be less likely to {disfmarker} like {disfmarker} or th\n",
      "Grad C: Want to do Vista ,\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: right ? Because {pause} if you want to view things you wouldn't be in a hurry .\nGrad B: Or they might be more likely to be using the place that they want to go to as a {disfmarker} like a {pause} navigational point to go to another place .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Whether the destination was their final destination , whether the destination was closed . Those are all {disfmarker} And then \" Let 's look at the belief - net \" {comment} OK . So that means that I should switch to the {pause} other program . Um right now it 's still kind of {pause} in a toy {pause} version of it , because we didn't know the probabilities of {disfmarker} {pause} or {disfmarker} Well I 'll talk about it when I get the picture up .\nGrad A: No one knows it .\n",
      "Grad B: OK . So this right {disfmarker} what we {disfmarker} Let 's see . What happens if I maximize this ? There we go . But uh {disfmarker} So . The mode {pause} basically has three different {pause} outputs . The probability {disfmarker} whether the probability of a Vista , Tango , or Enter . Um {disfmarker} The \" context \" , we simplified . Basically it 's just the businessman , the tourist , unknown . \" Verb used \" is actually personally amusing mainly because it 's {disfmarker} it 's just whether the verb is a Tango verb , an Enter verb , or a {pause} Vista verb .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , that one needs a lot of {disfmarker}\nGrad D: And are those mutually exclusive sets ?\nGrad B: No .\nGrad C: Not at all . That 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that needs a lot of work .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad C: But uh {vocalsound} {pause} that would 've made the probably significantly be more complicated to enter ,\nGrad D: Got it . Uh - huh .\nGrad C: so we decided that for the purposes of this {pause} it 'd be simpler to just have three verbs .\nGrad D: Yeah . Simple .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Stab at it . Yep .\nGrad B: Right . Um {disfmarker} Why don't you mention things about this , Bhaskara , that I am {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} that are not coming to my mind right now .\nGrad C: OK , so {disfmarker} Yeah , so note the four nodes down there , the {disfmarker} sort of , the things that are not directly extracted . Actually , the five things . The \" closed \" is also not directly extracted I guess , from the uh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Well i it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad D: From the {pause} utterance ?\nGrad B: it 's so it sort of is\nGrad C: Actually , no , wait .\nGrad B: because it 's {disfmarker} because have the {disfmarker} the time of day\nGrad C: It is . OK , \" closed \" sort of is .\nGrad B: and the close it just had the {disfmarker} er and what time it closed .\n",
      "Grad C: Right , so f Right , but the other ones , the final destination , the whether they 're doing business , whether they 're in a hurry , and whether they 're tourists , that kind of thing is all uh {vocalsound} sort of {disfmarker} you know probabilistically depends on the other things .\nGrad D: Inferred from the other ones ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad C: And the mode , you know , depends on all those things only .\nGrad B: Yeah the {disfmarker} {pause} the actual parse is somewhere up around in here .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . So we haven't uh , managed {disfmarker} Like we don't have nodes for \" discourse \" and \" parse \" , although like in some sense they are parts of this belief - net .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: But uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The idea is that we just extract those features from them , so we don't actually have a node for the entire parse ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: because we 'd never do inference on it anyway , so .\n",
      "Grad D: So some of the {disfmarker} the top row of things {disfmarker} What 's {disfmarker} what 's \" Disc admission fee \" ?\nGrad C: whether they discuss the admission fees . So we looked at the data and in a lot of data people were saying things like {vocalsound} \" Can I get to this place ? \"\nGrad D: Oh .\nGrad C: \" What is the admission fee ? \" . So that 's like a huge uh clue that they 're trying to Enter the place rather than uh to Tango or Vista ,\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad B: Right .\n",
      "Grad D: OK .\nGrad C: so .\nGrad D: I see .\nGrad B: There were {disfmarker} there 'd be other things besides just the admission fee , but {pause} you know , {pause} we didn't have {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: That was like our example .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: That was the {pause} initial one that we found .\nGrad D: OK . So there are certain cues that are very strong {pause} either lexical or topic - based um , concept cues\nGrad B: From the discourse that {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: for one of those . And then in that second row {pause} or whatever that row of Time of Day through that {disfmarker} So all of those {disfmarker} Some of them come from the utterance and some of them are sort of {vocalsound} either world knowledge or situational {pause} things .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: Right ? So that you have no distinction between those and OK .\nGrad B: One , uh {disfmarker} Uh . {vocalsound} Um , anything else you want to say Bhaskara ?\nGrad C: Um .\n",
      "Grad D: \" Unmark @ @ Time of Day \"\nGrad C: Yeah , I m I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah . They 're {disfmarker} they 're are a couple of more things .\nGrad B: One thing {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean Uh . I would actually suggest we go through this one more time so we {disfmarker} we all uh , agree on what {disfmarker} what the meaning of these things is at the moment and maybe {vocalsound} what changes we {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah , th OK . so one thing I {disfmarker} I 'm you know unsure about , is how we have the discus uh {disfmarker} the \" admission fee \" thing set up . So one {pause} thing that we were thinking was {vocalsound} by doing the layers like this , Uh {disfmarker} we kept um {disfmarker} things from directly affecting the mode {pause} beyond the concept , but you could see perhaps discus the \" admission fee \" going directly to the mode pointing at \" Enter \" ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: right ? Versus pointing to just at \" tourist \" ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: OK ?\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: But we just decided to keep all the things we extracted {pause} to point at the middle and then {pause} down .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Why is the landmark {disfmarker} OK . The landmark is facing to the tourists . That 's because we 're talking about landmarks as touristic landmarks not as possible um\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: Navigational landmarks ,\nGrad D: Navigational cue .\n",
      "Grad A: navigational landmarks\nGrad B: yeah .\nGrad A: so Mm - hmm . Then {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah , that would be {pause} whatever building they referred to .\nGrad D: Prosody .\nGrad C: Right . So let 's see . The variables .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Disc - \" admission fee \" is a binary thing , \" time of day \" is like morning , afternoon , night . Is that the deal ? Yeah .\nGrad B: That 's how we have it currently set up ,\nGrad A: Yep .\n",
      "Grad B: but it could be , {pause} you know , based upon hour\nGrad C: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Whatever granularity .\nGrad B: or {pause} dis we could discrete it {disfmarker} des descret - ize it .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Uh - huh .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Yeah . Normally context will include a huge amount of information , but um , we are just using the particular {vocalsound} part of the context which consists of the switch that they flick to indicate whether they 're a tourist or not , I guess .\n",
      "Grad A: Yep .\nGrad D: OK . So that 's given in their input .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: So {disfmarker} Right ,\nGrad D: Right ?\nGrad C: so it 's not really all of context . Similarly prosody is not all of prosody but simply {vocalsound} for our purposes whether or not they appear tense or relaxed .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . that 's very nice , huh ?\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad A: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} So the context is a switch between tourist or non - tourist ?\nGrad C: and\n",
      "Grad A: Or also unknown ?\nGrad B: Or un {pause} unknown ,\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad B: yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah . Unknown , right ?\nGrad D: So final dest So it seems like that would really help you for doing business versus tourist ,\nGrad C: Which is th Which one ?\nGrad D: but OK . so the the context being um , e I don't know if that question 's sort of in general , \" are you {disfmarker} \" I mean the {disfmarker} ar ar are do they allow business people to be doing non - business things at the moment ?\nGrad C: Yeah , it does .\n",
      "Grad D: OK . So then you just have some probabilities over {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Everything is probablistic , and {disfmarker} There 's always {disfmarker}\nGrad D: OK . {disfmarker} over which which of those it is .\nGrad C: Yeah . Um , right . So then landmark is {disfmarker} Oh , sorry . \" Verb used \" is like , right now we only have three values , but in general they would be a probability distribution over all verbs .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Rather , let me rephrase that . It {disfmarker} it can take values {vocalsound} in the set of all verbs , that they could possibly use .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Um \" nice walls \" is binary , \" closed \" is binary \" final destination \" , again {disfmarker} Yeah , all those are binary I guess . And \" mode \" is one of three things .\nGrad A: So , the {disfmarker} the middle layer is also binary ? No .\nGrad C: Yeah , anything with a question mark after it in that picture is a binary node .\n",
      "Grad A: Uh . It {disfmarker} Yeah . But all those things without question marks are also binary . Right ?\nGrad C: Which things ?\nGrad A: Nice walls ?\nGrad B: Wi\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Oh . \" Nice walls \" is uh {disfmarker} something that we extract from our world knowledge .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Yeah , a Oh yeah . Sorry . It is binary .\nGrad B: It is binary but it doesn't have question mark because it 's extracted .\nGrad C: That 's true . Yeah . OK , I see your point .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah . OK .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad A: I {disfmarker} I gotcha .\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad C: Yeah , similarly \" closed \" , I guess .\nGrad A: So we can either be in a hurry or not , but we cannot be in a medium hurry at the moment ?\nGrad C: Well , we To do that we would add another uh {disfmarker} value for that .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . OK .\nGrad C: And that would require s updating the probability distribution for \" mode \" as well .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Because it would now have to like uh {disfmarker} take that possibility into account .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Take a conti\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: So um , of course this will happen when we think more about the kinds of verbs that are used in each cases\nGrad A: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: but you can imagine that it 's verb plus various other things that are also not in the bottom layer that would {disfmarker} that would help you {disfmarker} Like it 's a conjunction of , I don't know , you know , the verb used and some other stuff that {disfmarker} that would {vocalsound} {pause} determine {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Right . Other syntactic information you mean ?\nGrad D: Yeah . Exactly .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Um .\n",
      "Grad A: well the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} sort of the landmark is {disfmarker} is sort of the object right ? the argument in a sense ?\nGrad D: Usually . I {disfmarker} I don't know if that 's always the case I {disfmarker} I guess haven't looked at the data as much as you guys have . So . Um .\nGrad A: that 's always warping on something {disfmarker} some entity ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: and um {disfmarker} Uh maybe at this stage we will {disfmarker} we do want to {disfmarker} uh sort of get {disfmarker} uh modifiers in there\nGrad B: Hmm . Yeah .\nGrad A: because they may also tell us whether the person is in a hurry or not\nGrad B: I want to get to the church quickly ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: and uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah , right .\nGrad D: That would be a cue .\nGrad A: what 's the fastest way\nGrad C: Yeah , correct .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm . Um . OK .\nGrad B: Right . Excellent . Do we have anything else to say about this ?\nGrad C: We can do a little demo .\nGrad B: Oh the Yeah , we could . But the demo doesn't work very well .\nGrad A: No , then it wouldn't be a demo I was just gonna s\nGrad C: I mean {disfmarker} We can do a demo in the sense that we can um , {vocalsound} just ob observe the fact that this will , in fact do inference .\nGrad B: Observe nodes .\n",
      "Grad C: So we can , you know , set some of the uh nodes and then try to find the probability of other nodes .\nGrad D: Yeah . Go ahead .\nGrad B: OK . Dat - dat - dah . What should I observe ?\nGrad C: Just se set a few of them . You don't have to do the whole thing that we did last time . Just like uh , {vocalsound} maybe the fact that they use a certain verb {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: Actually forget the verb .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: just uh {disfmarker} I don't know , say they discussed the admission fee {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: and uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the place has nice walls\nGrad B: I love nice walls , OK ? I 'm a big fan .\nGrad C: and it 's night .\nGrad D: it 's starting to grow on me\nGrad B: And the time of day is night ?\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , no wait . That {disfmarker} that doesn't uh {disfmarker} it 's not really consistent . They don't discuss the admission fee . Make that false .\nGrad B: Alright .\nGrad C: And it 's night .\nGrad B: Oh , they {disfmarker} OK . Oh whoops . I forgot to uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: That didn't work .\nGrad B: Ach !\nGrad D: I 'd like to do that again .\nGrad B: One thing that bugs me about JavaBayes is you have to click that and do this .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . That seems kind of redundant but .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad B: That all you want ?\nGrad C: Yes .\nGrad B: OK . So let 's see . I want {pause} to query ,\nGrad C: \" Go \" and , right , \" query \" .\nGrad B: right ? the mode . OK , and then on here {disfmarker} So let 's see .\nGrad C: So that {pause} is the probability that they 're Entering , Vista - ing or Tango - ing .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: And uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: So slightly {pause} biased {pause} toward \" Tango \" ing\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: If it 's night time , {pause} they have not discussed admission fee , and the n walls are nice .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Grad B: So , yeah . I guess that {pause} sort of makes sense . The reason I say the {pause} demo doesn't work very well is yesterday we uh {disfmarker} {pause} observed everything in favor of {pause} taking a tour , and it came up as \" Tango \" , right ? Over and over again . We couldn't {disfmarker} we couldn't figure out how to turn it off of \" Tango \" .\nGrad D: So . Uh - huh .\nGrad C: It loves the Tango .\nGrad D: Huh ! Um .\nGrad C: Well , that 's obviously just to do with our probabilities .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad C: Like , {pause} we totally hand - tuned the probabilities ,\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad C: right . We were like {vocalsound} \" hmm , well if the person does this and this and this , let 's say forty percent for this ,\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad C: fifty per \" Like , you know . So obviously that 's gonna happen .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad A: Yeah but it {disfmarker} it\nGrad D: Maybe the bias toward \" Tango \" ing was yours , then ?\nGrad B: Yeah ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: that 's {disfmarker} that 's at {disfmarker}\nGrad C: It 's {disfmarker} So we have to like fit the probabilities .\nGrad B: Spent my youth practicing the tango de la muerte .\nGrad D: So , the real case ?\nGrad A: However you know , it {disfmarker} The purpose was not really , at this stage , to come up with meaningful probabilities but to get thinking about that hidden middle layer . And so th\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: We would actually {disfmarker} I guess once we look at the data more we 'll get more hidden {pause} nodes ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: but I 'd like to see more . Not because it would {pause} expedite the probabilities , cuz it wouldn't . It would actually slow that down tremendously .\nGrad C: Um . Well , yeah , I guess .\nGrad B: But .\nGrad C: Not that much though . Only a little early .\n",
      "Grad B: No , I think we should have uh {disfmarker} exponentially more {pause} middle nodes than features we 've extracted . I 'm ju I 'm just jo\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: So . Are \" doing business \" versus \" tourist \" {disfmarker} They refer to your current task . Like {disfmarker} like current thing you want to do at this moment .\n",
      "Grad C: Um . Yeah , well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That 's {disfmarker} that 's an interesting point . Whether you 're {disfmarker} It 's whether {disfmarker} It 's not {disfmarker}\nGrad D: And are th\nGrad C: I think it 's more like \" Are you are tourist ? are you in Ham - like Heidelberg for a {disfmarker} \"\nGrad D: Oh , so , I thought that was directly given by the context {pause} switch .\n",
      "Grad C: That 's a different thing . What if the context , which is not set , but still they say things like , \" I want to go {pause} uh , see the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the castle and uh , et cetera . \"\nGrad A: Is it {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Well the I kind of {pause} thought of \" doing business \" as more of running an errand type thing .\nGrad C: Yeah . Business on the other hand is , uh , definitely what you 're doing .\n",
      "Grad A: So if you run out of cash as a tourist , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and you need to go to the AT\nGrad B: So {pause} i wi th\nGrad D: OK . Oh , I see , you may have a task . wh you have to go get money and so you are doing business at that stage .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: \" How do I get to the bank ? \"\nGrad D: I see . Hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: And that 'll affect whether you want to enter or you if you {disfmarker} kinda thing .\nGrad D: OK . So the \" tourists \" node {pause} should be {pause} um , very consistent with the context node . Right ? If you say that 's more their {disfmarker} in general what their background is .\nGrad C: Yeah , I think this context node is a bit of a {disfmarker} I don't know , like in d Uh {disfmarker} Do we {pause} wanna have {disfmarker} Like it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: Are you assuming that or not ? Like is that to be {disfmarker} I mean if that 's accurate then that would determine tourist node .\nGrad C: If the context were to set one way or another , that like strongly uh um , says something about whether {disfmarker} whether or not they 're tourists .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: So what 's interesting is when it 's not {disfmarker} when it 's set to \" unknown \" .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: We - what set the {disfmarker} they set the context to \" unknown \" ?\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: Right now we haven't observed it , so I guess it 's sort of averaging over all those three possibilities .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: But yes , you can set it to un \" unknown \" .\nGrad A: And if we now do {disfmarker} leave everything else as is the results should be the same ,\nGrad B: Oops .\nGrad A: right ?\nGrad B: No .\n",
      "Grad C: Well no , because we {disfmarker} Th - the way we set the probabilities {vocalsound} might not have {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's an {disfmarker} it 's an issue , right ? Like {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Pretty much the same ?\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , it is . So the issue is that um in belief - nets , it 's not common to do what we did of like having , you know , a d bunch of values and then \" unknown \" as an actual value . What 's common is you just like don't observe the variable ,\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yep .\nGrad C: right , and then just marginalizes {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: But uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We didn't do this because we felt that there 'd {disfmarker} I guess we were thinking in terms of a switch that actually {disfmarker}\nGrad B: We were thi Yeah ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: We were th\nGrad C: But uh {disfmarker} I don't know y what the right thing is to do for that . I 'm not {disfmarker} I don't know if I totally am happy with {vocalsound} the way it is .\n",
      "Grad A: Why don't we {disfmarker} Can we , um {disfmarker} How long would it take to {disfmarker} to add another {pause} node on the observatory and , um , play around with it ?\nGrad C: Another node on what ?\nGrad B: Uh , well it depends on how many things it 's linked to .\nGrad A: Let 's just say make it really simple . If we create {pause} something that for example would be um {disfmarker} So th some things can be landmarks in your sense but {pause} they {pause} can never be entered ? So for example s a statue .\n",
      "Grad C: Good point .\nGrad A: Yeah ?\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: So {pause} maybe we wanna have \" landmark \" {pause} meaning now \" enterable landmark \" versus , um something that 's simply just a vista point , for example .\nGrad B: Yeah , that 's true .\nGrad A: Yeah ? uh , a statue or um {disfmarker}\nGrad C: So basically it 's addressing a variable that 's \" enterable or not \" . So like an \" enterable , question mark \" .\n",
      "Grad B: Also {disfmarker} {pause} you know , didn't we have a {pause} size as one ? The size of the landmark .\nGrad C: What ?\nGrad B: Cuz if it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Um . Not when we were doing this ,\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: but I guess at some point we did .\nGrad B: For some reason I had that {disfmarker} OK , that was a thought that I had at one point but then went away .\nGrad C: So you want to have a {disfmarker} a node for like whether or not it can be entered ?\n",
      "Grad A: Well , for example , if we include that , yeah ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: um , accessibility or something , yeah ? \" Is it {disfmarker} Can it be entered ? \"\nGrad C: Hmm .\nGrad A: then of course , this is {pause} sort of binary as well .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: And then um , there 's also the question whether it may be entered . In the sense that , you know , if it 's {pause} Tom {disfmarker} the house of Tom Cruise , you know , it 's enterable but you may not enter it . You know ? You 're not allowed to .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Unless you are , whatever , his {disfmarker} his divorce lawyer or something .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yeah ? and um {disfmarker} And these are very observable sort of from the {disfmarker} from the ontology sort of things .\n",
      "Grad B: Way Does it actually help to distinguish between those two cases though ? Whether it 's practically speaking enterable , or actually physically enterable {pause} or not ?\nGrad A: y y If {disfmarker} If you 're running an errand you maybe more likely to be able to enter places that are usually not {vocalsound} al w you 're not usually {disfmarker} not allowed to uh m\nGrad D: It seems like it would for uh , uh {pause} determining whether they wanna go into it or not .\nGrad B: Well I can see why {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: Cuz they {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Let 's get this uh b clearer . S so it 's matrix between if it 's not enterable , period .\nGrad B: Whether it 's a {disfmarker} Whether it 's a public building , and whether it 's {disfmarker} actually has a door .\nGrad A: Yeah , exactly .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad A: This is sort of uh\nGrad B: So Tom Cruise 's house is {pause} not a public building\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: but it has a door . But the thing is {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad B: OK , sh explain to me why it 's necessary {pause} to distinguish between whether something has a door and is {pause} not public . Or , if something {disfmarker} It seems like it 's equivalent to say that it doesn't have a door a {pause} and it {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Or \" not public \" and \" not a door \" are equivalent things ,\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad B: it seems like in practice .\n",
      "Grad A: Right . Yeah . So we would have {disfmarker} What does it mean , then , that we have to {disfmarker} we have an object type statue . That really is an object type . So there is {disfmarker} there 's gonna be a bunch of statues .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad A: And then we have , for example , an object type , {pause} hmm , that 's a hotel . How about hotels ?\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: So , the most famous building in Heidelberg is actually a hotel . It 's the hotel Zum Ritter , which is the only Renaissance building in Heidelberg that was left after {pause} the big destruction and for the Thirty Years War , blah - blah - blah .\nGrad B: Hmm . Does it have nice walls ?\nGrad A: It has wonderful walls . Um - And lots of detail , c and carvings , engravings and so forth ,\nGrad B: Excellent .\n",
      "Grad A: so . But , um , it 's still an unlikely candidate for the Tango mode I {pause} must say . But . Um . So {disfmarker} s So if you are a d Well it 's very tricky . So I guess your question is {disfmarker} so far I have no really arg no real argument why to differentiate between statues as {disfmarker} statues and houses of celebrities , from that point of view . Huh . OK . Let {disfmarker} Let 's do a {disfmarker} Can we add , just so I can see how it 's done , uh , a \" has door \" {pause} property or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad B: OK .\nGrad C: What would it , uh , connect to ? Like , what would , uh , it affect ?\nGrad A: Um , I think , um , it might affect {disfmarker} Oh actually it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} {pause} it wouldn't affect any of our nodes , right ?\nGrad C: What I was thinking was if you had a {disfmarker} like {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh it 's {disfmarker} it affects th The \" doing business \" is certainly not .\n",
      "Grad B: You could affect {disfmarker} {pause} Theoretically you could affect \" doing business \" with \" has door \" .\nGrad C: Yeah . OK .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad A: It should , um , inhibit that ,\nGrad C: Right .\nGrad B: Let 's see .\nGrad A: right ?\nGrad C: Yeah , I don't know if JavaBayes is nice about that . It might be that if you add a new thing pointing to a variable , you just like {disfmarker} it just overwrites everything . But {pause} you can check .\n",
      "Grad B: Well , {pause} we have it saved . So . {vocalsound} We can rel open it up again .\nGrad C: OK . It 's true .\nGrad B: The {pause} safety net .\nGrad D: I think you could just add it . I mean , I have before OK . Whew !\nGrad C: Well that 's fine , but we have to see the function now . Has it become all point fives or not ?\nGrad D: Oh , right .\n",
      "Grad B: Let 's see . So this is \" has door \" Uh , true , false . That 's acceptable . And I want to edit the function going to that , right ? Oh no .\nGrad C: No . This is fine ,\nGrad B: Right . It was fine .\nGrad C: this business .\nGrad B: added this one .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad B: This {disfmarker}\nGrad C: What would be nice if it {disfmarker} is if it just like kept the old function for either value but . Nope . Didn't {pause} do it .\nGrad D: Oh .\n",
      "Grad B: Oh wait , it might be {disfmarker} Did we w Yes , that 's not good .\nGrad C: That 's {pause} kind of annoying .\nGrad A: OK , so just dis dismiss everything . Close it and {disfmarker} and load up the old state so {pause} it doesn't screw {disfmarker} screw that up .\nGrad B: Let 's see . Oops .\nGrad C: Hmm .\nGrad A: Maybe you can read in ?\nGrad C: Ha - So have you used JavaBayes a lot ?\n",
      "Grad D: Yes . Really {vocalsound} I ha I 've {disfmarker} I haven't used it a lot and I haven't used it in the last you know many months so\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: um , uh , we can ask someone .\nGrad C: It might be worth uh {disfmarker} asking around .\nGrad D: Um .\nGrad C: Like , we looked at sort of uh {disfmarker} a page that had like a bunch of {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yeah . Srini {disfmarker}\nGrad C: OK . Yeah , S I guess he 'd be the person .\n",
      "Grad D: Srini 's the one to ask I would say .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Um . He might know .\nGrad C: Cuz {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad D: And .\nGrad C: I mean in a way this is a lot of good features in Java it 's cra has a GUI and it 's uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: I guess those are the main two things . It does learning , it has {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: No it doesn't , actually .\nGrad D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: I didn't think it did learning .\nGrad C: What ?\nGrad B: Maybe it did a little bit of learning ,\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad B: I don't remember .\nGrad C: Oh right . Maybe you 're right . OK . Right . But uh {disfmarker} it 's free .\nGrad B: Which is w quite positive , yeah .\nGrad C: But uh , yeah . Maybe another thing that uh {disfmarker} But I mean its interface is not the greatest . So .\nGrad B: But actually it had an interface .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: A lot of them were like , you know .\nGrad D: Yep .\nGrad A: Command line .\nGrad B: Huh .\nGrad A: What is the c code ? Can w can we see that ? How do you write the code\nGrad B: The c\nGrad A: or do you actually never have to write any code there ?\nGrad C: Yeah . There is actually a text file that you can edit . But it 's {disfmarker} You don't have to do that .\nGrad B: There 's like an XML format for {pause} Bayes - nets .\nGrad C: Is it XML ?\n",
      "Grad B: The - there is one . I don't know if this uses it .\nGrad C: Oh , I see . No this doesn't use it .\nGrad B: But it {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I didn't think it did .\nGrad B: Yeah , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\nGrad C: You can look at the text file .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: But do you have it here ?\nGrad B: Uh , yes I do actually .\nGrad C: Well , maybe you don't .\nGrad B: Let me see .\nGrad C: Oh yes , of course .\nGrad B: Oh man ,\n",
      "Grad C: Like , there 's the {disfmarker}\nGrad B: I didn't n {pause} Is there an ampersand in DOS ?\nGrad C: Nope . Just s l start up a new DOS .\nGrad B: We - That 's alright . I can probably double cli click on it .\nGrad C: Or {disfmarker} Yeah , right .\nGrad A: n uh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Let 's see .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad B: Let 's see , come on .\n",
      "Grad C: It 'll ask you what you {disfmarker} what it wants {disfmarker} what you want to open it with and see what BAT , I guess .\nGrad B: One of these days , it should open this , theoretically .\nGrad A: Go {disfmarker} Right mouse . Open with .\nGrad B: Oh there we go .\nGrad C: That 's {disfmarker} Oh !\nGrad B: Maybe it was just {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh .\nGrad B: Oh ! W Ah , it was dead . To the world .\nGrad D: God !\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: Through the old Notepad . That 's my favorite editor .\nGrad B: I like {disfmarker} I like Word Pad because it has the uh {disfmarker} the returns ,\nGrad A: Wordpad ? I {disfmarker}\nGrad B: the carriage returns on some of them .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . OK .\nGrad B: You know how they get \" auto - fills \" I guess ,\nGrad A: Mmm - hmm .\nGrad B: or whatever you call it .\nGrad C: Anyway , there it is .\nGrad A: So this is sort of LISP - y ? No .\nGrad C: Uh , Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: It just basically looks like it just specifies a bunch of\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Yeah . That 's how actual probability tables are specified .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: As , like , lists of numbers .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: So theoretically you could edit that .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: It just that {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: But {pause} they 're not very friendly .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Yeah the ordering isn't very clear on {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: So you 'd have to like figure out {disfmarker} Like you have to go and {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Right . The layout {pause} of the table .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad B: Actually we could write a program that could generate this .\nGrad C: Well I {disfmarker} Yeah . I think so .\nGrad B: Yeah you could .\nGrad D: You could .\nGrad C: it 's not {disfmarker}\nGrad B: We were doing it {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah we can maybe write an interface th for uh entering probability distributions easily , something like {disfmarker} like a little script . That might {vocalsound} be worth it .\nGrad A: And that might do .\nGrad D: Yeah . I actually seem to recall Srini complaining about something to do with Entering probability so this is probably\nGrad C: The other thing is it is in Java\nGrad D: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad C: so .\nGrad B: We could {pause} manipulate the source {pause} itself ?\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad B: Or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Do you have the true source files or just the class ?\nGrad B: I don't know if he actually {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah . Uh , yeah . we do\nGrad B: Does he {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I {disfmarker} I saw directory called \" source \" ,\nGrad B: Oh .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: I didn't e\nGrad C: or {disfmarker} Yeah . Go up one ?\nGrad B: Up one . Ah yes , good .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: \" Source \" . That 's {disfmarker} that 's quite nice .\nGrad C: I don't know if it actually manipulate the source , though . That might be a bit complicated .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: I think it might {disfmarker} it might be simpler to just {pause} have a script that , you know {disfmarker} It 's , like , friendly ,\nGrad D: The d the data tables .\nGrad C: it allows you enter things well .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad B: Right .\n",
      "Grad A: But if th if there is an XML {pause} file that {disfmarker} or format that it can also read {disfmarker} I mean it just reads this , right ? When it starts .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Yeah I know there is an {disfmarker} I was looking on the we web page and he 's updated it for an XML version of I guess Bayes - nets . There 's a Bayes - net spec for {disfmarker} in XML .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: He 's {disfmarker} Like this guy has ?\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: The JavaBayes guy ? So {disfmarker} but , e he doesn't use it . So in what sense has he updated it ?\nGrad B: Well th you can either {disfmarker} you ca or you can read both .\nGrad C: Oh . I see .\nGrad B: To my understanding .\nGrad C: OK . That would be awesome .\nGrad D: Oh .\nGrad B: Because uh {disfmarker} Well at least the {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I could have misread the web page , I have a habit of doing that , but .\nGrad A: OK , wonderful .\n",
      "Grad C: OK .\nGrad A: So you got more slides ?\nGrad B: Do I have more slides ? Um yes , one more . \" Future Work \" . I think every presentation have a should have a \" Future Work \" slide . But uh it 's basically {disfmarker} we already talked about all this stuff , so .\nGrad C: Um . The additional thing is I guess learning the probabilities , {pause} also . E That 's maybe , I don't know {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Uh that 's future future work .\n",
      "Grad C: Does {disfmarker} That 's {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: Very future .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: And of course if you have a presentation that doesn't {disfmarker} have something that doesn't work at all , then you have \" What I learned \" , as a slide .\nGrad D: Can't you have both ?\nGrad B: You could . My first approach failed .\nGrad D: Right .\nGrad B: What I learned . OK , so I think that uh our presentation 's finished .\nGrad A: Good .\n",
      "Grad B: I know what I like about these meetings is one person will nod , and then the next person will nod , and then it just goes all the way around the room .\nGrad A: So the uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: I missed my turn .\nGrad B: No I {disfmarker} Earlier I went {nonvocalsound} and Bhaskara went {nonvocalsound} and you did it . You did it .\nGrad A: It 's like yawning .\nGrad D: It 's like yawning .\nGrad A: And this announcement was in stereo .\nGrad C: Ha .\n",
      "Grad A: OK . So this means um {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Should I pull up the {pause} net again ?\nGrad D: Yeah . Could you put the {disfmarker} the um , net up again ?\nGrad B: Yes . There we go .\nGrad D: Thanks .\nGrad B: And actually I was {disfmarker} cuz I got a wireless mike on .\n",
      "Grad D: So a more general thing than \" discussed admission fee \" um , could be {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm just wondering whether the context , the background context of the discourse {vocalsound} might be {disfmarker} I don't know , if there 's a way to define it or maybe you know generalize it some way um , there might be other cues that , say , um , in the last few utterances there has been something that has strongly associated with say one of the particular modes uh , I don't know if that might be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm . I think we {disfmarker}\nGrad D: uh , and {disfmarker} and into that node would be various {disfmarker} various things that {disfmarker} that could have specifically come up .\n",
      "Grad A: I think a {disfmarker} a sort of general strategy here {disfmarker} You know , this is {disfmarker} this is excellent because {disfmarker} um it gets you thinking along these terms {disfmarker} is that maybe we ob we could observe a couple of um discourse phenomena such as the admission fee , and something else and something else , that happened in the discourse before .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Right .\n",
      "Grad A: And um {disfmarker} let 's make those four . And maybe there are two um {disfmarker} So maybe this could be sort of a separate region of the net , {pause} which has two {disfmarker} {pause} has it 's own middle layer . Maybe this , you know , has some {pause} kind {pause} of um , funky thing that di if this and this may influence these hidden nodes of the discourse which is maybe something that is uh , a more general version of the actual {pause} phenomenon that you can observe . So things that point towards {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: So instead of single node , for {pause} like , if they said the word \" admission fee \" {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Exactly .\nGrad B: \" admission fee \" , or maybe , you know , \" how much to enter \"\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad B: or you know something , other cues .\nGrad D: Opening hours or something like that .\nGrad B: Exactly . That would all f funnel into one node that would {pause} constitute entrance requirements or something like that .\nGrad A: So \" pay a visit \" {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: uh uh d\nGrad C: Sure .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: I mean it sort of get into plan recognition kinds of things in the discourse . I mean that 's like the bigger um , version of it .\n",
      "Grad A: Exactly . Yeah ? And then maybe there are some discourse acts if they happened before , um it 's more for um a cue that the person actually wants to get somewhere else and that you are in a {disfmarker} in a {disfmarker} in a route um , sort of proceeding past these things , so this would be just something that {disfmarker} where you want to pass it . Hmm ? Is that it ? However these are of course then the {disfmarker} the nodes , the observed nodes , for your middle layer . So this {pause} again points to \" final destination \" , \" doing business \" , \" tourist hurry \" and so forth .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad A: Yeah ? And so then we can say , \" OK . we have a whole {pause} region {disfmarker} \" {vocalsound} in a e\nGrad D: That 's a whole set of discourse related cues to your middle layer .\nGrad A: Yeah , exactly . And this is just {disfmarker} then just one .\nGrad D: Right ?\n",
      "Grad A: So e because at the end the more we um {disfmarker} add , you know , the more spider - web - ish it 's going to become in the middle and the more of hand editing . It 's going to get very ugly . But with this way we could say \" OK , these are the {pause} discourse phenomena . They ra may have there own hidden layer {pause} that points to some of {pause} the {disfmarker} the real hidden layer , um or the general hidden layer .\nGrad C: Sure .\n",
      "Grad A: And the same we will be able to do for syntactic information , the verbs used , the object types used , modifiers . And maybe there 's a hidden layer for that .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad A: And so forth and so forth . Then we have context .\nGrad C: Yeah . So essentially a lot of those nodes can be expanded into little Bayes - nets of their own .\nGrad A: Yep .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Precisely . So .\n",
      "Grad B: One thing that 's kind of been bugging me when I {disfmarker} more I look at this is that the {disfmarker} I guess , the fact that the {disfmarker} there 's a complete separation between the {pause} observed features and in the output .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: I mean , it makes it cleaner , but then uh {disfmarker} I mean .\nGrad C: That 's true .\nGrad B: For instance if the discourse does {disfmarker}\nGrad D: What do you mean by that ?\n",
      "Grad B: well for instance , the \" discourse admission fee \" {pause} node seems like it should point directly to the {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad B: or increase the probability of \" enter {pause} directly \" versus \" going there via tourist \" .\nGrad C: Yeah . Or we could like add more , uh , sort of middle nodes . Like we could add a node like do they want to enter it , which is affected by admission fee and by whether it 's closed and by whether it has a door .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: So it 's like {disfmarker} There are {disfmarker} Those are the two options . Either like make an arrow directly or put a new node .\nGrad B: Yeah ,\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad B: that makes sense .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah . And if it {disfmarker} if you do it {disfmarker} If you could connect it too hard you may get such phenomenon that {disfmarker} like \" So how much has it cost to enter ? \" and the answer is two hundred fifty dollars , and then the persons says um \" Yeah I want to see it . \" Yeah ? meaning \" It 's way out of my budget \" um {disfmarker}\nGrad B: There are places in Germany where it costs two hundred fifty dollars to enter ?\n",
      "Grad A: Um , nothing comes to mind . Without thinking too hard . Um , maybe , yeah of course , um opera premiers .\nGrad B: Really ?\nGrad A: So you know .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad A: Or {disfmarker} or any good old Pink Floyd concert .\nGrad B: I see . If you want to see \" The Magic Flute \" or something .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad D: Or maybe um , a famous restaurant . or , I don't know . There are various things that you might w not want to eat a {pause} meal there but {pause} your own table .\n",
      "Grad B: The Spagos of Heidelberg .\nGrad A: I think that the h I mean nothing beats the {disfmarker} the admission charge prices in Japan . So there , two hundred dollars is {disfmarker} is moderate for getting into a discotheque . You know . Then again , everything else is free then once you 're ins in there .\nGrad C: Really .\n",
      "Grad A: Food and drink and so forth . So . I mean . But i you know , i we can {disfmarker} Something {disfmarker} Somebody can have discussed the admission fee and u the answer {pause} is s if we {disfmarker} um , you know , um {disfmarker} still , based on that result is never going to enter that building .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nGrad A: You know ? Because it 's just too expensive .\nGrad B: Oh yeah , I think I see . So the discourse refers to \" admission fee \" but it just turns out that they change their mind in the middle of the discourse .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . you have to have some notion of not just {disfmarker} I mean there 's a {disfmarker} there 's change across several turns of discourse\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: so {vocalsound} I don't know how {disfmarker} if any of this was discussed {disfmarker} but how i if it all this is going to interact with {vocalsound} whatever general {vocalsound} uh , other {disfmarker} other discourse processing that might be happen .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . {comment} {nonvocalsound} Yeah .\nGrad D: I mean .\nGrad B: What sort of discourse {pause} processing is uh {disfmarker} are the {disfmarker} How much is built into SmartKom and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: It works like this . The uh , um {disfmarker} I mean . The first thing we get is that {pause} already the intention is sort of t They tried to figure out the intention , right ? simply by parsing it . And this um {disfmarker} m won't differentiate between all modes , yeah ? but at least it 'll tell us \" OK here we have something that {disfmarker} somebody that wants to go someplace , now it 's up for us to figure out what kind of going there is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} {pause} is happening , and um , if the discourse takes a couple of turns before everything {disfmarker} all the information is needed , what happens is you know the parser parses it and then it 's handed on to the discourse history which is , um o one of the most elaborate {disfmarker} elaborate modules . It 's {disfmarker} it 's actually the {disfmarker} the whole memory of the entire system , that knows what {disfmarker} wh who said what , which was {disfmarker} what was presented . It helps an an anaphora resolution and it {disfmarker} and it fills in all the structures that are omitted , so , {pause} um , because you say \" OK , {pause} how can I get to the castle ? \" Oh , how {disfmarker} how much is it ? \" and um \" yeah I would like uh {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} to g let 's do it \" and so forth . So even without an a ana {pause} anaphora somebody has to make sure that information we had earlier on is still here .\n",
      "Grad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Because not every module keeps a memory of everything that happened . so {vocalsound} whenever the uh , um person is not actually rejecting what happened before , so as in \" No I really don't want to see that movie . I 'd rather stay home and watch TV \" um {disfmarker} What movie was selected in what cinema in what town is {disfmarker} is going to be sort of added into the disc into the representations every di at each dialogue step , by the discourse model {disfmarker} discourse {pause} model , Yeah , that 's what it 's called . and , um , it does some help in the anaphora resolution and it also helps in coordinating the gesture screen issues . So a person pointing to something on the screen , you know , the discourse model actually stores what was presented at what location on the s on the screen\n",
      "Grad B: Hmm .\nGrad A: so it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a rather huge {vocalsound} {disfmarker} huge thing but um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {comment} um {disfmarker} {pause} {vocalsound} we can {pause} sort of {disfmarker} It has a very clear interface . We can query it whether admission fees were discussed in the last turn and {disfmarker} and the turn before that or you know how {pause} deep we want to search\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: um {disfmarker} which is a question . How deep do we want to sear , you know ? Um {disfmarker} but we should {pause} try to keep in mind that , you know , we 're doing this sort of for research , so we {disfmarker} we should find a limit that 's reasonable and not go , you know , all the way back to Adam and Eve . You know , did that person ever discuss admissions fee {disfmarker} fees in his entire life ? And the dialogues are pretty {disfmarker} pretty you know {vocalsound} concise and {disfmarker} Anyway .\n",
      "Grad D: So one thing that might be helpful which is implicit in the {pause} use of \" admission fee discussion \" as a cue for entry , {vocalsound} {pause} is thinking about the plans that various people might have . Like all the different {vocalsound} sort of general schemas that they might be following OK . This person is um , finding out information about this thing in order to go {pause} in as a tourist or finding out how to get to this place {pause} in order to do business . Um , because then {pause} anything that 's a cue for one of the steps {pause} would be slight evidence for that overall plan . Um , I don't know . They 're {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in non in sort of more traditional AI kinds of plan recognition things you sort of have {vocalsound} {pause} you know , some idea at each turn of agent doing something , \" OK , wha what plans is this a {disfmarker} consistent with ? \" and then get s some more information and then you see {pause} \" here 's a sequence that this sort of roughly fits into \" . It {disfmarker} it might be useful here too .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: I {disfmarker} I don't know how you know you 'd have to {vocalsound} {pause} figure out what knowl what knowledge representation would work for that .\nGrad A: I mean the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} u u\nGrad B: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: It 's in the {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these plan schemas . I mean there are some {disfmarker} some of them are extremely elaborate , you know . \" What do you need {disfmarker} need to buy a ticket ? \"\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: You know ? and it {disfmarker} it 's fifty steps ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: huh ? just for buying a ticket {pause} at a ticket counter , you know , and {disfmarker} and maybe that 's helpful to look at it {disfmarker} to look at those . It 's amazing what human beings can do . W when we talked uh we had the example , you know , of you being uh {disfmarker} a s a person on a ticket counter working at railway station and somebody r runs up to you with a suitcase in his hands , says {vocalsound} New York and you say Track seven , huh ? And it 's because you know that that person actually is following , you know {disfmarker} You execute a whole plan of going through a hundred and fifty steps , you know , without any information other than \" New York \" , huh ? inferring everything from the context . So , works . Um , even though there is probably no train from here to New York , right ?\n",
      "Grad D: Mmm . Not direct .\nGrad B: You 'd uh probably have to transfer in Chicago .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . But uh {disfmarker} it 's possible . Um , no you probably have to transfer also somewhere else . Right ? Is that t San Francisco , Chicago ?\nGrad B: I think {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Is that possible ?\nGrad B: One time I saw a report on trains , and I think there is a l I don't know if {disfmarker} I thought there was a line that went from somewhere , maybe it was Sacramento to Chicago ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: but there was like a California to Chicago line of some sort .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad B: I could be wrong though . It was a while ago .\nGrad D: The Transcontinental Railroad , doesn't that ring a bell ?\nGrad B: Yeah but I don't know if it 's still {disfmarker}\nGrad D: I think it has to exist somewhere .\nGrad B: They might have blown it up .\nGrad A: Well it never went all the way , right ? I mean you always had to change trains at Omaha ,\nGrad D: Well most of the way .\n",
      "Grad A: right ? One track ended there and the other one started at {disfmarker} five meters away from that\nGrad D: Uh . Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad A: and {vocalsound} sort of {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Well . {pause} You seem to know better than we do so .\nGrad A: yeah ? Has anybody ever been on an Amtrak ?\nGrad D: I have . But not transcontinentally .\nGrad B: I 'm frightened by Amtrak myself .\nGrad C: What ? Why ?\n",
      "Grad B: I just {disfmarker} They seem to have a lot of accidents on the Amtrak .\nGrad C: Really ?\nGrad A: Their reputation is very bad .\nGrad B: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: huh ? It 's not maybe reality .\nGrad D: It 's not like German trains . Like German trains are really great so .\nGrad A: But {disfmarker} you know , I don't know whether it 's {disfmarker} which ones are safer , you know , statistically .\nGrad D: Um , but they 're faster .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Much faster . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: And there 's much more of them . Yeah , they 're Yeah , it 's {pause} way better\nGrad A: yeah I used {disfmarker} um Amtrak quite a bit on the east coast and I was surprised . It was actually OK .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: You know , on Boston New York ,\nGrad D: Yeah .\nGrad A: New York Rhode Island ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad A: whatever ,\nGrad C: I 've done that kind of thing .\nGrad A: Boston .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah . But {disfmarker} That 's {pause} a different issue .\nGrad B: This is going to be an interesting transcript .\nGrad A: Hmm ?\nGrad C: I {disfmarker} I want to see what it does with uh \" landmark - iness \" . That 's {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad D: Let 's all say it a few more times .\nGrad B: It 'd help it figure it out .\nGrad C: So .\nGrad D: Just kidding . Right .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: So by the way tha that structure {pause} that Robert drew on the board was like more um , {vocalsound} {pause} cue - type - based , right , here 's like we 're gonna {vocalsound} segment off a bit of stuff that comes from discourse and then {pause} some of the things we 're talking about here are more {disfmarker} you know , we mentioned maybe {pause} if they talk about {pause} um , I don't know , entering or som you know like they might be more task - based .\nGrad B: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad D: So I {disfmarker} I don't know if there {disfmarker} There 's obviously some {disfmarker} m more than one way of organizing {pause} the variables into something\nGrad A: I think that um {disfmarker} What you guys did is really nicely sketching out different tasks , and maybe some of their conditions .\nGrad D: so . Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: One task is more likely you 're in a hurry when you do that kind of s doing business ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: and {disfmarker} and less in a hurry when uh {disfmarker} you 're a tourist Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} tourists may have {disfmarker} never have final destinations , you know because they are eternally traveling around so {vocalsound} maybe what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what happened {disfmarker} what might happen is that we do get this sort of task - based middle layer ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: and then we 'll get these sub - middle layers , that are more cue - based .\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm . That feed into those ?\nGrad A: Nah ?\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Might be {disfmarker} might be a nice dichotomy of {disfmarker} of the world . So , um I suggest w to {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} to proceed with this in {disfmarker} in the sense that {pause} maybe throughout this week the three of us will {disfmarker} will talk some more about maybe segmenting off different regions , and we make up some {disfmarker} {pause} some toy a observable \" nodes \" {disfmarker} is that what th\nGrad B: Refined y re just refine the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: What 's the technical term ?\nGrad C: OK . For which ?\nGrad A: For the uh {disfmarker} nodes that are observable ? The \" outer layer \" ?\nGrad C: Just observable nodes ,\nGrad B: The features ,\nGrad C: evidence nodes ?\nGrad B: I don't know , whatever you {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Feature ma make up some features for those {disfmarker} Identify {pause} four regions ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: maybe make up some features for each region and uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and uh , uh {disfmarker} and uh {disfmarker} middle layer for those . And then these should then connect somehow to the more plan - based deep space\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: Basically just refine {pause} some of the more general nodes .\nGrad A: Yep . The - they {disfmarker} they will be aud ad - hoc for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for some time to come .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , this is totally like {disfmarker} The probabilities and all are completely ad - hoc . We need to look at all of them . I mean but , they 're even like {vocalsound} {pause} I mean like , close to the end we were like , uh , you know we were like uh {vocalsound} really ad - hoc .\nGrad D: It 's a even distribution . Like , whatever .\n",
      "Grad C: Right ? Cuz if it 's like , uh {disfmarker} If it 's four things coming in , right ? And , say , some of them have like three possibilities and all that . So you 're thinking like {disfmarker} like a hundred and forty four or something {pause} possible things {disfmarker} numbers to enter ,\nGrad D: And {disfmarker} That 's terrible .\nGrad C: right ? So .\nGrad B: Some of them are completely absurd too , like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they want to enter , but it 's closed ,\n",
      "Grad D: That 's uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Well {disfmarker}\nGrad B: it 's night time , you know there are tourists and all this weird stuff happens at the line up and you 're like {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah , the only like possible interpretation is that they are like {disfmarker} come here just to rob the museum or {pause} something to that effect .\nGrad B: confused .\nGrad D: In which case you 're supposed to alert the authorities , {vocalsound} and see appropriate action .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . Yeah , another thing to do , um , is also to , um {disfmarker} I guess to ask around people about other Bayes - net packages . Is Srini gonna be {pause} at the meeting tomorrow , do you know ?\nGrad D: Maybe .\nGrad A: The day after tomorrow .\nGrad C: Wait {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Quite possibly .\nGrad A: Wednesday .\nGrad C: Day after tomorrow .\nGrad D: Oh , oh , sorry .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Sorry , Wednesday ,\nGrad B: Who 's talking on Wednesday ?\nGrad C: Maybe we can ask him about it .\n",
      "Grad D: yeah . Mmm .\nGrad B: I haven't {disfmarker} J Jerry never sent out a {disfmarker} sent out an email , did he , ever ?\nGrad C: No . But he mentioned at the last meeting that someone was going to be talking , I forget who .\nGrad A: Oh , isn't Ben ?\nGrad C: Uh .\nGrad D: Ben ?\nGrad A: Ben , then ,\nGrad D: I think it 's Ben actually ,\nGrad A: Ben .\nGrad B: Ah !\nGrad D: yeah , um , giving his job talk I think . um , Sorry . I was just reading the screen .\n",
      "Grad A: OK .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: Oh .\nGrad A: So the uh {disfmarker} That will be one {disfmarker} one thing we could do . I actually uh , have {disfmarker} Um , also we can uh , start looking at the SmartKom tables and I will {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad A: I actually wanted to show that {pause} to you guys now but um .\nGrad B: Do you want to {pause} trade ?\n",
      "Grad A: Um , no I {disfmarker} I actually made a mistake because it {disfmarker} it fell asleep and when Linux falls asleep on my machine it 's {disfmarker} it doesn't wake up ever , so I had to reboot\nGrad D: Oh , no .\nGrad A: And if I reboot without a network , I will not be able to start SmartKom , because I need to have a network .\nGrad B: Uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: So we 'll do that t maybe uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: But . OK . But once you start {disfmarker} sart start SmartKom you can be on {disfmarker} You don't have to be on a network anymore . Is that the deal ?\nGrad A: Yep .\nGrad C: Ah , interesting .\nGrad B: Why does SmartKom need a network ?\n",
      "Grad A: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it looks up some stuff that , {pause} you know , is {disfmarker} is that {disfmarker} is in the {disfmarker} written by the operating system only if it {disfmarker} if you get a DHCP request , so it {disfmarker} you know , my computer does not know its IP address , you know ?\nGrad B: Ah .\nGrad A: You know . So . Unless it boots up with networking .\nGrad B: It 's plugged in . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: And I don't have an IP address , they can't look up {disfmarker} they don't know who localhost is , and so forth and so forth .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nGrad A: Always fun . But it 's a , um , simple solution . We can just um , go downstairs and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and look at this , but maybe not today . The other thing um {disfmarker} I will {disfmarker} oh yeah , OK , I have to report {vocalsound} um , data collection . We interviewed Fey ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: She 's willing to do it , meaning be the wizard for the data collection , also {vocalsound} maybe transcribe a little bit , if she has to , but also recruiting subjects , organizing them , and so forth . So that looks good . Jerry however suggested that we should uh have a trial run with her , see whether she can actually do all the uh spontaneous , eloquent and creativeness that we uh expect of the wizard . And I talked to Liz about this and it looks as if Friday afternoon will be the time when we have a first trial run for the data .\nGrad C: So who would be the subject {pause} of this trial run ?\n",
      "Grad A: Pardon me ?\nGrad C: Who {disfmarker} Will there be a {disfmarker} Is one {disfmarker} Is you {disfmarker} one of you gonna be the subject ? Like are you {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Um Liz also volunteered to be the first subject , {vocalsound} which I think might be even better than us guys .\nGrad D: Good .\nGrad B: One of us , yeah .\nGrad A: If we do need her for the technical stuff , then of course one of you has to sort of uh {disfmarker} jump in .\n",
      "Grad B: I like how we 've {disfmarker} you guys have successfully narrowed it down . \" Is one of you going to be the subject ? \" Is one of you {disfmarker} jump in .\nGrad D: Reference . I haven't done it yet .\nGrad C: Well I just figured it has to be someone who 's , um , familiar enough with the data to cause problems for the wizard , so we can , uh , see if they 're you know good .\nGrad D: Oh plants ? e u someone who can plant difficult things .\nGrad C: Yeah . I mean that 's what we wanna {pause} check , right ?\n",
      "Grad A: Um ,\nGrad D: Well , in this case it 's a p it 's a {pause} sort of testing of the wizard rather than of the subject .\nGrad C: Isn't that what it is ?\nGrad D: It 's uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: yes w we {disfmarker} we would like to test the wizard , but {vocalsound} you know , if we take a subject that is completely unfamiliar with the task , or any of the set up , we get a more realistic\nGrad C: I guess that would be reasonable .\nGrad D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: you know , set up as {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah . I know . That 's probably a good enough test of {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Sort of having an actively antagonistic , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yeah . That might be a little unfair . Um .\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: I 'm sure if we uh , {disfmarker} You think there 's a chance we might need Liz for , whatever , the technical side of things ? I 'm sure we can get {pause} other people around who don't know anything {pause} um , if we want another subject .\nGrad A: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad D: You know . Like I can drag Ben into it or something . Although he might cause problems but . So , is it a experimental setup for the um , data collection {pause} totally {pause} ready {disfmarker} determined ?\n",
      "Grad B: I like that . \" Test the wizard . \" I want that on a T - shirt .\nGrad A: Um {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} experimental setup u on the technical issue yes , except we st I think we still need uh {disfmarker} a recording device for the wizard , just a tape recorder that 's running in a room .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: But um {disfmarker} in terms of specifying the scenario , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} we 've gotten a little further\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: but um {disfmarker} we wanted to wait until we know who is the wizard , and have the wizard partake in the {pause} ultimate {pause} sort of definition probe . So {disfmarker} so if {disfmarker} if on Friday it turns out that she really likes it and {disfmarker} and we really like her , then nothing should stop us from sitting down next week and {vocalsound} {comment} getting all the details completely figured out .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: And um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: OK . So the ideal task um , {pause} will have {pause} whatever I don't know how much the structure of the evolving Bayes - net {vocalsound} {pause} will af affect {disfmarker} Like we wanna {disfmarker} we wanna be able to collect {vocalsound} as much of the variables that are needed for that ,\nGrad A: Mmm - yea - some .\nGrad D: right ? in the course of the task ? Well not all of them but you know .\n",
      "Grad A: Bu - e e e I 'm even {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} this Tango , Enter , Vista is sort of , itself , an ad - hoc scenario .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: The {disfmarker} the basic u um idea behind the uh {pause} data collection was the following . The data we get from Munich is {pause} very command line , simple linguistic stuff .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Hardly anything complicated . No metaphors whatsoever .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Not a rich language . So we wanted just to collect data , to get {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that {pause} elicits more , uh , that elicits richer language .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: And we actually did not want to constrain it too much ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: you know ? Just see what people say . And then maybe we 'll discover the phenomenon {disfmarker} the phenomena that we want to solve , you know , with {pause} whatever engine we {disfmarker} we come up with . Um . So this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is a parallel track , you know , there {disfmarker} they hopefully meet ,\nGrad D: OK . So in other words this data collection is {pause} more general .\nGrad A: but since {disfmarker}\nGrad D: It could {disfmarker} it could {pause} be used for not just this task .\n",
      "Grad A: It should tell us , you know , what kind of phenomenon could occur , it should tell us also maybe something about the difference between people who think they speak to a computer versus people who think they speak to a human being\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: and the sort of differences there . So it may get us some more information on the human - machine pragmatics , um , that no one knows anything about , as of yesterday . And uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} nothing has changed {comment} since then , so . Uh . And secondly , now that of course we have sort of started to lick blood with this , and especially since um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Johno can't stop Tango - ing , {vocalsound} we may actually include , you know , those {disfmarker} those intentions . So now I think we should maybe have at least one navigational task with {disfmarker} with sort of explicit {disfmarker} uh\n",
      "Grad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: not ex it 's implicit that the person wants to enter ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: and maybe some task where it 's more or less explicit that the person wants to take a picture ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: or see it or something . So that we can label it . I mean , that 's how we get a corpus that we can label .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm . Exactly .\nGrad A: Whereas , you know , if we 'd just get data we 'd never know what they actually wanted , we 'd get no cues . Yep .\n"
    ],
    "length": 20719,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 52,
    "question": "What was the focus of the meeting?.",
    "answer": "The main focus of the meeting was firstly on the structure of the belief-net, its decision nodes and the parameters that influence them, and secondly, on the design of the data collection tasks. For the latter, there are already 30 subjects lined up and more are expected to be recruited off campus. Finally, as to the semantic and syntactic constructions, work will start with more general and brief descriptions, before moving to exhaustive analysis of at least a subset. Similarly, the construction parser that is to be built within a year is expected to be relatively basic, yet robust.  ",
    "docs": [
      "Grad C: Now can you give me the uh {pause} remote T ?\nProfessor D: OK , so Eva , co uh {disfmarker} could you read your numbers ?\nGrad A: Go ahead and read . OK .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: Alright .\nProfessor D: Yeah , let 's get started . Um {disfmarker} Hopefully Nancy will come , if not , she won't .\nGrad B: Uh , Robert , do you uh have any way to turn off your uh screensaver on there so that it 's not going off every {disfmarker} uh , it seems to have about at two minute {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , I 've {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} it 's not that I didn't try .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: and um I {disfmarker} I told it to stay on forever and ever , but if it 's not plugged in it just doesn't obey my commands .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: It has a mind .\nGrad B: Got it .\nGrad C: But I I just {disfmarker} You know , sort of keep on wiggling .\nUndergrad E: Wants to conserve .\nGrad B: Yeah , OK .\n",
      "Grad C: But uh {disfmarker} we 'll just be m m working on it at intensity so it doesn't happen . We 'll see . Should we plunge right into it ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: So , would you like to {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I think so .\n",
      "Grad C: So what I 've tried to do here is list all the decision nodes that we have identified on this {pause} side . Commented and {disfmarker} what they 're about and sort of {disfmarker} the properties we may um give them . And here are the uh {disfmarker} tasks to be implemented via our data collection . So all of these tasks {disfmarker} The reading is out of these tasks more or less imply that the user wants to go there , sometime or the other . And analogously for example , here we have our EVA um {disfmarker} intention . And these are the data tasks where w we can assume the person would like to enter , view or just approach the thing . Analogously the same on the object information we can see that , you know , we have sort of created these tasks before we came up with our decision nodes so there 's a lot of things where we have no analogous tasks , and {pause} that may or may not be a problem . We can change the tasks slightly if we feel that we should have data for e sort of for every decision node so {disfmarker} trying to im um {disfmarker} implant the intention of going to a place now , going to a place later on the same tour , or trying to plant the intention of going sometime on the next tour , or the next day or whenever .\n",
      "Professor D: Right , right .\nGrad C: But I think that might be overdoing it a little .\n",
      "Professor D: So {disfmarker} Yeah . So let me pop up a level . And uh s s make sure that we 're all oriented the same . So What we 're gonna do today is two related things . Uh one of them is to work on the semantics of the belief - net which is going to be the main inference engine for thi the system uh making decisions . And decisions are going to turn out to be parameter choices for calls on other modules . so f the natural language understanding thing is uh , we think gonna only have to choose parameters , but You know , a fairly large set of parameters . So to do that , we need to do two things . One of which is figure out what all the choices are , which we 've done a fair amount . Then we need to figure out what influences its choices and finally we have to do some technical work on the actual belief relations and presumably estimates of the probabilities and stuff . But we aren't gonna do the probability stuff today . Technical stuff we 'll do {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} another day . Probably next week . But we are gonna worry about all the decisions and the things that pert that contribute to them . And we 're also , sort of uh in the same process , going to work with Fey on what there should be in the dialogues . So One of the s steps that 's coming up real soon is to actually get subjects uh {disfmarker} in here , and have them actually record like this . Uh record dialogues more or less . And {disfmarker} depending on what Fey sort of provokes them to say , we 'll get information on different things .\n",
      "Grad C: Well how people phrase different intentions more or less ,\nProfessor D: So {disfmarker} Fo - v yeah people with the {disfmarker} phrase them\nGrad C: huh ?\n",
      "Professor D: and so {disfmarker} Uh for , you know , Keith and people worrying about what constructions people use , uh {disfmarker} we have some i we have some ways to affect that by the way the dialogues go . So what Robert kindly did , is to lay out a table of the kinds of uh {pause} things that {disfmarker} that might come up , and , the kinds of decisions . So the uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} on the left are decision nodes , and discreet values . So if {disfmarker} if we 're right , you can get by with um just this middle column worth of decisions , and it 's not all that many , and it 's perfectly feasible technically to build belief - nets that will do that . And he has a handout .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . Maybe it was too fast plunging in there , because j we have two updates .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: Um you can look at this if you want , these are what our subject 's going to have to fill out . Any comments I can {disfmarker} can still be made and the changes will be put in correspondingly .\nUndergrad E: m {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yes .\n",
      "Grad C: Let me summarize in two sentences , mainly for Eva 's benefit , who probably has not heard about the data collection , at all .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad C: Or have you heard about it ?\nGrad A: Not that much you didn't .\nGrad C: No . OK . We were gonna put this in front of people . They give us some information on themselves .\nGrad A: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Then {disfmarker} then they will read uh {disfmarker} a task where lots of German words are sort of thrown in between . And um {disfmarker} and they have to read isolated proper names And these change {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: S I don't see a release\nGrad C: No , this is not the release form . This is the speaker information form .\nProfessor D: Got it . OK , fine . OK .\nGrad C: The release form is over there in that box .\nProfessor D: Alright , fair enough .\n",
      "Grad C: And um {disfmarker} And then they gonna have to f um um choose from one of these tasks , which are listed here . They {disfmarker} they pick a couple , say three {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh six as a matter of fact . Six different things they sort of think they would do if they were in Heidelberg or traveling someplace {disfmarker} and um {disfmarker} and they have a map .\nGrad B: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Like this . Very sketchy , simplified map . And they can take notes on that map . And then they call this computer system that works perfectly , and understands everything .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad C: And um {disfmarker}\nGrad B: This is a fictional system obviously ,\nGrad C: The comp Yeah , the computer system sits right in front of you ,\nGrad B: huh .\nGrad C: that 's Fey .\nUndergrad E: I 've {disfmarker} I understand everything .\nProfessor D: And she does know everything .\nUndergrad E: Yes I do .\n",
      "Grad C: And she has a way of making this machine talk . So she can copy sentences into a window , or type really fast and this machine will use speech synthesis to produce that . So if you ask \" How do I get to the castle \" then a m s several seconds later it 'll come out of here \" In order to get to the castle you do {disfmarker} \"\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: OK ? And um {disfmarker} And then after three tasks the system breaks down . And Fey comes on the phone as a human operator . And says \" Sorry the system broke down but let 's continue . \" And we sort of get the idea what people do when they s think they speak to a machine and what people say when they think they speak to a human , or know , or assume they speak to a human .\nGrad A: OK . Huh .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: That 's the data collection . And um {disfmarker} And Fey has some thirty subjects lined up ? Something ?\n",
      "Undergrad E: Yeah .\nGrad C: And um {disfmarker} And they 're {disfmarker} r ready uh {disfmarker} to roll .\nUndergrad E: And more and more every day .\nGrad C: And we 're gonna start tomorrow at three ? four ? one ?\nUndergrad E: Tomorrow , well we don't know for sure . Because we don't know whether that person is coming or not ,\nGrad C: OK . Around four - ish .\nUndergrad E: but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: And um we 're still l looking for a room on the sixth floor because they stole away that conference room . Um {disfmarker} behind our backs . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Well , there are these {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} oh , I see , we have to {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's tricky . We 'll {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} let {disfmarker} we 'll do that off - line , OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , but I {disfmarker} i i it 's happening . David and {disfmarker} and Jane and {disfmarker} and Lila are working on that as we speak .\nProfessor D: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . That was the uh {disfmarker} the data collection in a nutshell . And um {disfmarker} I can report a {disfmarker} so I did this but I also tried to do this {disfmarker} so if I click on here , Isn't this wonderful ? we get to the uh {disfmarker} uh belief - net just focusing on {disfmarker} on the g Go - there node . uh {disfmarker} Analogously this would be sort of the reason node and the timing node and so forth .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: And what w what happened is that um design - wise I 'd sort of n noticed that we can {disfmarker} we still get a lot of errors from a lot of points to one of these sub Go - there User Go - there Situation nodes . So I came up with a couple of additional nodes here where um whether the user is thrifty or not , and what his budget is currently like , is going to result in some financial state of the user . How much will he {disfmarker} is he willing to spend ? Or can spend . Being the same at this {disfmarker} just the money available , which may influence us , whether he wants to go there if it is {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} charging tons of dollars for admission or its gonna g cost a lot of t e whatever . Twenty - two million to fly to International Space Station , you know . just {disfmarker} Not all people can do that .\n",
      "Professor D: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: So , and this actually turned out to be pretty key , because having specified sort of these {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} intermediate level Um and sort of noticing that everything that happens here {disfmarker} let 's go to our favorite endpoint one is again more or less {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} then the situation nodes contributing to the {disfmarker} the endpoint situation node , which contributes to the endpoint and so forth . um {disfmarker} I can now sort of draw straight lines from these to here , meaning it g of course goes where the sub - S {disfmarker} everything that comes from situation , everything that comes from user goes with the sub - U , and whatever we specify for the so - called \" Keith node \" , or the discourse , what comes from the {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} parser , construction parser , um will contribute to the D and the ontology to the sub - O node . And um one just s sort of has to watch which {disfmarker} also final decision node so it doesn't make sense {disfmarker} t to figure out whether he wants to enter , view or approach an object if he never wants to go there in the first place . But this makes the design thing fairly simple . And um now all w that 's left to do then is the CPG 's , the conditional probabilities , for the likelihood of a person having enough money , actually wanting to go a place if it costs , you know this or that . And um {disfmarker} OK . and once um Bhaskara has finished his classwork that 's where we 're gonna end up doing . You get involved in that process too . And um {disfmarker} And for now uh the {disfmarker} the question is \" How much of these decisions do we want to build in explicitly into our data collection ? \" So {disfmarker} Um , one could {disfmarker} sort of {disfmarker} think of {disfmarker} you know we could call the z see or {disfmarker} you know , people who visit the zoo we could s call it \" Visit the zoo tomorrow \" , so we have an intention of seeing something , but not now {disfmarker} but later .\n",
      "Professor D: Right . Yeah . Yeah , so {disfmarker} let 's s uh s see I th I think that from one point of view , Uh , um , all these places are the same , so that d d That , um {disfmarker} in terms of the linguistics and stuff , there may be a few different kinds of places , so I th i it seems to me that We ought to decide you know , what things are k are actually going to matter to us . And um , so the zoo , and the university and the castle , et cetera . Um are all big - ish things that um {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} have different parts to them , and one of them might be fine .\n",
      "Grad C: Hmm . Hmm , hmm . Yeah {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the reason why we did it that way , as a {disfmarker} as a reminder , is uh {disfmarker} no person is gonna do all of them .\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker}\nGrad C: They 're just gonna select u um , according to their preferences .\nProfessor D: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad C: \" Ah , yeah , I usually visit zoos , or I usually visit castles , or I usually {disfmarker} \" And then you pick that one .\n",
      "Professor D: Right , no no , but {disfmarker} but s th point is to {disfmarker} to y to {disfmarker} build a system that 's got everything in it that might happen you do one thing .\nUndergrad E: They 're redundant .\n",
      "Professor D: T to build a system that um {disfmarker} had the most data on a relatively confined set of things , you do something else . And the speech people , for example , are gonna do better if they {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} things come up uh {disfmarker} repeatedly . Now , of course , if everybody says exactly the same thing then it 's not interesting . So , all I 'm saying is i th there 's {disfmarker} there 's a kind of question of what we 're trying t to accomplish . and {disfmarker} I think my temptation for the data gathering would be to uh , you know {disfmarker} And each person is only gonna do it once , so you don't have to worry about them being bored , so if {disfmarker} if it 's one service , one luxury item , you know , one big - ish place , and so forth and so on , um {disfmarker} then my guess is that {disfmarker} that the data is going to be easier to handle . Now of course you have this I guess possible danger that somehow there 're certain constructions that people use uh when talking about a museum that they wouldn't talk about with a university and stuff , um {disfmarker} but I guess I 'm {disfmarker} I uh m my temptation is to go for simpler . You know , less variation . But I don't know what other people think about this in terms of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: So I don't exactly understand {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: uh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: like I I {disfmarker} I guess we 're trying to {disfmarker} limit the detail of our ontology or types of places that someone could go , right ? But who is it that has to care about this , or what component of the system ?\n",
      "Professor D: Oh , well , uh {disfmarker} th I think there are two places where it comes up . One is uh {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} th these people who are gonna take this and {disfmarker} and try to do speech with it .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: uh {disfmarker} Lots of pronunciations of th of the same thing are going to give you better data than l you know , a few pronunciations of lots more things .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: That 's one .\n",
      "Grad B: So we would rather just ask {disfmarker} uh have a bunch of people talk about the zoo , uh and assume that that will {disfmarker} that the constructions that they use there will give us everything we need to know about these sort of zoo , castle , whatever type things , these bigger places .\nProfessor D: Bigger {disfmarker} Y yeah thi well this is a question for {disfmarker}\nGrad B: And that way you get the speech data of people saying \" zoo \" over and over again or whatever too .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . So this is a question for you ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: and , you know , if we {disfmarker} if we do , and we probably will , actually try to uh build a prototype , uh probably we could get by with the prototype only handling a few of them anyway . So , Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , the this was sort of {disfmarker} these are all different sort of activities . Um But I think y I {disfmarker} I got the point and I think I like it . We can do {disfmarker} put them in a more hierarchical fashion . So , \" Go to place \" and then give them a choice , you know either they 're the symphony type or opera type or the tourist site guide type or the nightclub disco type person and they say \" yeah this is {disfmarker} on that \" go to big - ish place \" ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: this is what I would do . \" And then we have the \" Fix \" thing , and then maybe \" Do something the other day \" thing , so . My question is {disfmarker} I guess , to some extent , we should {disfmarker} y we just have to try it out and see if it works . It would be challenging , in {disfmarker} in a sense , to try to make it so {disfmarker} so complex that they even really should schedule , or to plan it , uh , a more complex thing in terms of OK , you know , they should get the feeling that there are these s six things they have to do and they sh can be done maybe in two days .\n",
      "Professor D: Well {disfmarker} yeah .\nGrad C: So they make these decisions ,\nProfessor D: Well I think th th\nGrad C: \" Can I go there tomorrow ? \"\nProfessor D: yeah .\nGrad C: or {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} influences\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . Well , I think it 's easy enough to set that up if that 's your expectation . So , the uh system could say , \" Well , uh we 'd like to {disfmarker} to set up your program for two days in Heidelberg , you know , let 's first think about all the things you might like to do . So there {disfmarker} th i i in {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} I th I {disfmarker} I 'm sure that if that 's what you did then they would start telling you about that , and then you could get into um various things about ordering , if you wanted .\n",
      "Grad C: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Yeah , but I think this is part of the instructor 's job . And that can be done , sort of to say , \" OK now we 've picked these six tasks . \" \" Now you have you can call the system and you have two days . \"\nProfessor D: I 'm sorry .\nGrad C: And th w\nProfessor D: No , we have to help {disfmarker} we have to decide . Fey will p carry out whatever we decide . But we have to decide you know , what is the appropriate scenario . That 's what we 're gonna talk about t yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Yep , yep .\nPhD F: But these are two different scenarios entirely . I mean , one is a planner {disfmarker} The other , it kind of give you instructions on the spot\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , but th the {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I 'm not really interested in sort of \" Phase planning \" capabilities . But it 's more the {disfmarker} how do people phrase these planning requests ? So are we gonna masquerade the system as this {disfmarker} as you said simple response system , \" I have one question I get one response \" , or should we allow for a certain level of complexity . And a I w think the data would be nicer if we get temporal references .\nProfessor D: Well , so Keith , what do you think ?\n",
      "Grad B: Well , um it seems that {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean , off the top of my head it kinda seems like you would probably just want , you know , richer data , more complex stuff going on , people trying to do more complex sets of things . I mean {pause} you know , if our goal is to really sort of be able to handle a whole bunch of different stuff , then throwing harder situations at people will get them to do more linguistic {disfmarker} more interesting linguistic stuff . But I mean {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not really sure Uh , because I don't fully understand like what our choices are of ways to do this here yet .\n",
      "Grad C: I mean w we have tested this and a y have you heard {disfmarker} listen to the f first two or th as a matter of fact the second person is uh {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} was faced with exactly this kind of setup .\nGrad B: I started to listen to one and it was just like , um , uh , sort of depressing .\nGrad C: And {disfmarker}\nGrad B: I thought I 'd just sort of listen to the beginning part and the person was just sort of reading off her script or something . And .\nGrad C: Oh , OK . That was the first subject .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: First one wasn't very good .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: So um , I {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Um , it is {disfmarker} already with this it got pretty {disfmarker} with this setup and that particular subject it got pretty complex .\nUndergrad E: Although {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Maybe {disfmarker} I suggest we make some fine tuning of these , get {disfmarker} sort of {disfmarker} run through ten or so subjects\n",
      "Grad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: and then take a breather , and see whether we wanna make it more complex or not , depending on what {disfmarker} what sort of results we 're getting .\n",
      "Grad B: Right . Yeah . It {disfmarker} In fact , um , I am just you know {disfmarker} today , next couple days gonna start really diving into this data . I 've basically looked at one of the files {disfmarker} you know one of these {disfmarker} l y y y you gave me those dozens of files and I looked at one of them which was about ten sentences , found fifteen , twenty different construction types that we would have to look for and so on and like , \" alright , well , let 's start here . \" Um . So I haven't really gone into the , you know {disfmarker} looked at all of the stuff that 's going on . So I don't really {disfmarker} Right , I mean , once I start doing that I 'll have more to say about this kind of thing .\n",
      "Professor D: OK .\nGrad C: And y and always {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: But well th but you did say something important , which is that um you can probably keep yourself fairly well occupied uh {disfmarker} with the simple cases for quite a while .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Although , obviously th so {disfmarker} so that sa s does suggest that {disfmarker} Uh , now , I have looked at all the data , and it 's pre it 's actually at least to an amateur , quite redundant .\nGrad B: Yeah , Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: That {disfmarker} that it was {disfmarker} it was very stylized , and quite a lot of people said more or less the same thing .\nGrad B: I um {disfmarker} I did sort of scan it at first and noticed that , and then looked in detail at one of them .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad B: But yeah , yeah I noticed that , too .\nProfessor D: So , we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we wanna do more than that .\nGrad C: And with this we 're getting more . No question .\nProfessor D: OK . Right . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: uh w do we wanna get going beyond more , which is sort of the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Well , OK , so let 's {disfmarker} let 's take {disfmarker} let 's I {disfmarker} I think your suggestion is good , which is we 'll do a b uh {disfmarker} a batch . OK . And , uh , Fey , How long is it gonna be till you have ten subjects ? Couple days ? Or thr f a A week ? Or {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I don't have a feel for th\n",
      "Undergrad E: Um {disfmarker} I can {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean I s I think can probably schedule ten people , uh , whenever .\nProfessor D: Well , it 's {disfmarker} it 's up to you , I mean I j I {disfmarker} uh e We don't have any huge time pressure . It 's just {disfmarker} when you have t\nUndergrad E: How long will it be ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nUndergrad E: Um {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I would say maybe two weeks .\n",
      "Professor D: Oh , OK . So let 's do this . Let 's plan next Monday , OK , to have a review of what we have so far .\nGrad C: This means audio , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker} Huh ?\nGrad C: no transcriptions of course , yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: No , we won't have the transcriptions , but what we should be able to do and I don't know if , Fey , if you will have time to do this , but it would be great if you could , um , not transcribe it all , but pick out uh , some stuff . I mean we could lis uh {disfmarker} just sit here and listen to it all . Are you gonna have the audio on the web site ? OK .\nGrad C: Until we reach the gigabyte thing and David Johnson s ki kills me . And we 're gonna put it on the web site . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Oh , we could get {disfmarker} I mean , you can buy another disk for two hundred dollars , right ? I mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's not like {disfmarker} OK . So , we 'll take care of David Johnson .\nGrad C: No , he {disfmarker} uh , he {disfmarker} he has been solving all our problems or {disfmarker} is wonderful ,\nProfessor D: OK .\nUndergrad E: Take {disfmarker} care of him .\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad C: so s\n",
      "Professor D: Alright . So we 'll buy a disk . But anyway , so , um , If you {disfmarker} if you can think of a way {disfmarker} to uh , point us to th to interesting things , sort of as you 're doing this or {disfmarker} or something uh , make your {disfmarker} make notes or something that {disfmarker} that this is , you know , something worth looking at . And other than that , yeah I guess we 'll just have to uh , listen {disfmarker} although I guess it 's only ten minutes each , right ? Roughly .\n",
      "Undergrad E: Well , I guess . I 'm not sure how long it 's actually going to take .\nGrad C: The reading task is a lot shorter . That was cut by fifty percent . And the reading , nobody 's interested in that except for the speech people .\nProfessor D: Right . No , we don't care about that at all .\nGrad C: So . It 's actually like five minutes dialogue .\nProfessor D: I b My guess is it 's gonna be ten .\nGrad C: Ten minutes is long .\n",
      "Professor D: People {disfmarker} I understand , but people {disfmarker} people {disfmarker} you know uh {disfmarker}\nUndergrad E: It feels like a long time\nGrad C: Yeah .\nUndergrad E: but .\nGrad C: It feels like forever when you 're doing it ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: but then it turns out to be three minutes and forty five seconds .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Could be . OK . I was thinking people would , you know , hesitate and {disfmarker} Whatever . Whatever it is we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll deal with it .\nGrad C: Yeah , it 's not {disfmarker} And it 's fun .\nProfessor D: OK , so that 'll be {disfmarker} that 'll be {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on the web page .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: That 's great . Um But anyway {disfmarker} yeah , so I think {disfmarker} it 's a good idea to start with the sort of relatively straight forward res just response system . And then if we want to uh {disfmarker} get them to start doing {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} multiple step planning with a whole bunch of things and then organize them an um tell them which things are near each other and {disfmarker} you know , any of that stuff . uh {disfmarker} You know , \" Which things would you like to do Tuesday morning ? \"\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: So yeah I {disfmarker} th that seems {disfmarker} pretty straight forward .\nUndergrad E: But were you saying that {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I need those back by the way .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: OK .\nUndergrad E: Yeah .\nGrad C: That 's for {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I 'm sorry , Fey , what ?\nUndergrad E: That w maybe one thing we should do is go through this list and sort of select things that are categories and then o offer only one member of that category ?\n",
      "Professor D: That 's what I was suggesting for the first round , yeah .\nUndergrad E: OK .\nGrad B: So rather than having zoo and castle .\nUndergrad E: And then , I mean , they could be alternate versions of the same {disfmarker} If you wanted data on different constructions .\nProfessor D: They could , but i but i uh tha eh they c yeah , but {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}\nUndergrad E: Like one person gets the version with the zoo as a choice , and the other person gets the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: You could , but i but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think in the short run , {disfmarker}\nGrad C: And no , th the per the person don't get it . I mean , this is why we did it , because when we gave them just three tasks for w part - A and three tasks for part - B a\nProfessor D: Right . Yeah .\nUndergrad E: Well no , they could still choose . They just wouldn't be able to choose both zoo and say , touring the castle .\n",
      "Grad C: Exactly . This is limiting the choices , but yeah . Right . OK , sorry . But um I {disfmarker} I think this approach will very well work , but the person was able to look at it and say \" OK , This is what I would actually do . \"\nUndergrad E: Yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad C: OK .\nUndergrad E: He was vicious .\nGrad C: OK , we gotta {disfmarker} we gotta disallow uh {disfmarker} traveling to zoos and uh castles at the same time , sort of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Undergrad E: I mean there {disfmarker} they are significantly different , but .\nGrad C: But no , they 're {disfmarker} I mean they 're sort of {disfmarker} this is where tour becomes {disfmarker} you know tourists maybe a bit different\nUndergrad E: Yeah , I guess so .\nGrad C: and , um , these are just places where you {disfmarker} you enter um , much like here .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: But we can uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , in fact if y if y if you use the right verb for each in common , like at you know , \" attend a theater , symphony or opera \" is {disfmarker} is a group , and \" tour the university , castle or zoo \" ,\nGrad C: mm - hmm Yeah .\nProfessor D: all of these d do have this kind of \" tour \" um {disfmarker} aspect about the way you would go to them . And uh , the movie theater is probably also uh {disfmarker} e is a \" attend \" et cetera .\nGrad C: Attend , yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: So it may turn out to be not so many different kinds of things ,\nGrad C: Hmm , mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: and then , what one would expect is that {disfmarker} that the sentence types would {disfmarker} uh their responses would tend to be grouped according to the kind of activity , you would expect .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: But I mean i it seem that um {disfmarker} there is a difference between going {disfmarker} to see something , and things like \" exchange money \" or \" dine out \"\nProfessor D: Oh , absolutely . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: uh {disfmarker} @ @ function , yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , this is where {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} th the function stuff is definitely different and the getting information or g stuff {disfmarker} yeah . OK . But this is open . So since people gonna still pick something , we we 're not gonna get any significant amount of redundancy . And for reasons , we don't want it , really , in that sense . And um we would be ultimately more interested in getting all the possible ways of people asking , oh , for different things with {disfmarker} or with a computer . And so if you can think of any other sort of high level tasks a tourist may do just always {disfmarker} just m mail them to us and we 'll sneak them into the collection . We 're not gonna do much statistical stuff with it .\n",
      "Professor D: We don't have enough .\nGrad C: No . But it seems like since we {disfmarker} since we are getting towards uh subject {disfmarker} uh fifty subjects and if we can keep it up um to a {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} sort of five four - ish per week rate , we may even reach the one hundred before Fey t takes off to Chicago .\nUndergrad E: That means that one hundred people have to be interested .\nGrad B: Good luck .\nUndergrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Well , um , these are all f people off campus s from campus so far ,\nUndergrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: right ?\nUndergrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So we {disfmarker} yeah we don't know how many we can get next door at the {disfmarker} uh shelter for example .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nProfessor D: Uh for ten bucks , probably quite a few .\nGrad B: Yeah . That 's right .\nProfessor D: Yeah . So , alright , so let 's go {disfmarker} let 's go back then , to the {disfmarker} the chart with all the decisions and stuff , and see how we 're doing .\nGrad C: Yep .\n",
      "Professor D: Do {disfmarker} do people think that , you know this is {disfmarker} is gonna {disfmarker} um cover what we need , or should we be thinking about more ?\nGrad C: Okay , in terms of decision nodes ? I mean , Go - there is {disfmarker} is a yes or no .\nProfessor D: Yep .\nGrad C: Right ?\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Yep .\n",
      "Grad C: I 'm also interested in th in this \" property \" uh line here , so if you look at {disfmarker} sorry , look at that um , timing was um {disfmarker} I have these three . Do we need a final differentiation there ? Now , later on the same tour , sometimes on the next tour .\nGrad B: What 's this idea of \" next tour \" ? I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad C: It 's sort of next day , so you 're doing something now and you have planned to do these three four things ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: and you can do something immediately ,\n",
      "Grad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: you could sort of tag it on to that tour\nGrad B: Or {disfmarker} OK .\nGrad C: or you can say this is something I would do s I wanna do sometime l in my life , basically .\nGrad B: OK . OK . So {disfmarker} so this tour is sort of just like th the idea of current s round of {disfmarker} of touristness or whatever ,\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah , probably between stops back at the hotel .\nGrad B: OK . Got it .\n",
      "Professor D: I mean if you {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if you wanted precise about it , uh you know ,\nGrad B: Got it .\nProfessor D: uh {disfmarker} and I think that 's the way tourists do organize their lives .\nGrad B: Sure , sure , sure .\nProfessor D: You know , \" OK , we 'll go back to the hotel and then we 'll go off\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker} \"\nPhD F: So all tours {disfmarker} b a tour happens only within one day ?\nProfessor D: Yes .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: It {disfmarker}\nPhD F: So the next tour will be tomorrow ?\nProfessor D: Right . For this .\nGrad B: OK . Just to be totally clear . OK .\nGrad C: Well , my visit to Prague there were some nights where I never went back to the hotel , so whether that counts as a two - day tour or not we 'll have to {vocalsound} think .\nGrad B: You just spend the whole time at U Fleku or something ,\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor D: I {disfmarker} w we will {disfmarker} we will not ask you more .\nGrad B: ri\n",
      "Undergrad E: Right .\nPhD F: Right .\nUndergrad E: That 's enough .\nGrad C: I don't know . What is the uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the English co uh um cognate if you want , for \" Sankt Nimmerlandstag \" ?\nGrad B: Keine Ahnung\nGrad C: Sort of \" We 'll do it on {disfmarker} when you say on that d day it means it 'll never happen .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad C: Do you have an expression ? Probably you sh\n",
      "Grad B: Not that I know of actually .\nGrad C: Yeah , when hell {disfmarker} Yep , we 'll do it when hell freezes over .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: So maybe that should be another {vocalsound} property in there .\nPhD F: Right .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nUndergrad E: Never .\nProfessor D: No .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . Um , the reason why {disfmarker} why do we go there in the first place IE uh {disfmarker} it 's either uh {disfmarker} for sightseeing , for meeting people , for running errands , or doing business . Entertainment is a good one in there , I think . I agree .\nGrad B: So , business is supposed to uh , be sort of {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} like professional type stuff , right , or something like that ?\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad B: OK . Um .\n",
      "Grad C: I mean {disfmarker} this w this is uh an old uh Johno thing . He sort of had it in there . \" Who is the {disfmarker} the tour is the person ? \" So it might be a tourist ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: it might be a business man who 's using the system , who wants to sort of go to some {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , or {disfmarker} or both .\nGrad B: Yeah . Yeah , I mean like for example my {disfmarker} my father is about to travel to Prague .\n",
      "Grad C: Yep .\nGrad B: He 'll be there for two weeks . He is going to uh {disfmarker} He 's there to teach a course at the business school but he also is touring around and so he may have some mixture of these things .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor D: Mmm .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor D: Sure . Right .\nGrad C: He would {disfmarker}\nPhD F: What ab What do you have in mind in terms of um {disfmarker} socializing ? What kind of activities ?\n",
      "Grad C: Eh , just meeting people , basically . \" I want to meet someone somewhere \" , which be puts a very heavy constraint on the \" EVA \"\nPhD F: Oh {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: you know , because then if you 're meeting somebody at the town hall , you 're not entering it usually , you 're just {disfmarker} want to approach it .\nGrad B: So {disfmarker} I mean , does this capture , like , where do you put {disfmarker} \" Exchange money \" is an errand , right ? But what about uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Yep .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm\nGrad B: So , like \" Go to a movie \" is now entertainment , \" Dine out \" is {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Socializing , I guess .\nProfessor D: No , I I well , I dunno . Let {disfmarker} Let {disfmarker} well , we 'll put it somewhere ,\nGrad B: So I mean {disfmarker} Right .\n",
      "Professor D: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} I would say that if \" Dine out \" is a special c uh {disfmarker} if you 're doing it for that purpose then it 's entertainment .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker} we 'll also as y as you 'll s further along we 'll get into business about \" Well , you 're {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} this is going over a meal time , do you wanna stop for a meal or pick up food or something ? \"\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And that 's different . That 's {disfmarker} that 's sort of part of th that 's not a destination reason , that 's sort of \" en passant , \" right .\nGrad B: Right .\nGrad C: That goes with the \" energy depletion \" function , blech .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Right , yeah .\nGrad C: OK , \" endpoint \" .\nGrad B: \" Tourist needs food , badly \"\nProfessor D: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: \" Endpoint \" is pretty clear . Um , \" mode \" , uh , I have found three , \" drive there \" , \" walk there \" uh {disfmarker} or \" be driven \" , which means bus , taxi , BART .\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad C: Yeah . Yep .\nProfessor D: Obviously taxis are very different than buses , but on the other hand the system doesn't have any public transport {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} the planner system doesn't have any public transport in it yet .\n",
      "Grad C: So this granularity would suffice , I think w if we say the person probably , based on the utterance we on the situation we can conclude wants to drive there , walk there , or use some other form of transportation .\nGrad B: H How much of Heidelberg can you get around by public transport ? I mean in terms of the interesting bits . There 's lots of bits where you don't really I 've only ev was there ten years ago , for a day , so I don't remember , but . I mean , like the {disfmarker} sort of the tourist - y bits {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Mm - Well ,\n",
      "Grad C: Everywhere .\nGrad B: is it like {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: you can't get to the Philosophers ' Way very well ,\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: but , I mean there are hikes that you can't get to , but {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor D: but I think other things you can , if I remember right .\nGrad A: So is like \" biking there \" {disfmarker} part of like \" driving there \" ,\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , um we actually {disfmarker} biking should be {disfmarker} should be a separate point because we have a very strong bicycle planning component .\nGrad A: or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: So .\nProfessor D: Oh !\nUndergrad E: Mmm g that 's good .\nGrad C: Um .\nProfessor D: Put it in .\nGrad C: Bicycles c should be in there , but , will we have bic I mean is this realistic ? I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK , we can leave it out , I guess .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: We can {disfmarker} we can sort of uh , drive {disfmarker}\nGrad B: I would {disfmarker} I would lump it with \" walk \" because hills matter .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: Right ? You know . Things like that .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK . Skateboards right , anyway .\nPhD F: Right .\nProfessor D: Scooters ,\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor D: right ?\nGrad C: OK , \" Length \" is um , you wanna get this over with as fast as possible ,\nProfessor D: Alright .\n",
      "Grad C: you wanna use some part of what {disfmarker} of the time you have . Um , they can . But we should just make a decision whether we feel that they want to use some substantial or some fraction of their time .\nProfessor D: Ye\nGrad B: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: You know , they wanna do it so badly that they are willing to spend uh {disfmarker} you know the necessary and plus time . And um {disfmarker} And y you know , if we feel that they wanna do nothing but that thing then , you know , we should point out that {disfmarker} to the planner , that they probably want to use all the time they have . So , stretch out that visit for that .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad B: Wow {disfmarker} It seems like this would be really hard to guess . I mean , on the part of the system . It seems like it {disfmarker} I mean you 're {disfmarker} you 're talking about rather than having the user decide this you 're supposed t we 're supposed to figure it out ?\nProfessor D: w well\nGrad C: Th - the user can always s say it , but it 's just sort of we {disfmarker} we hand over these parameters if we make {disfmarker} if we have a feeling that they are important .\nGrad B: Overrider\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: And that we can actually infer them to a significant de degree , or we ask .\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: And par yeah , and part of the system design is that if it looks to be important and you can't figure it out , then you ask .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: But hopefully you don't ask you know , a all these things all the time .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Or {disfmarker} eh so , y but there 's th but definitely a back - off position to asking .\nGrad B: Yeah . Right . Yeah .\nGrad C: And if no {disfmarker} no part of the system ever comes up with the idea that this could be important , no planner is ever gonna ask for it .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: y so {disfmarker} And I like the idea that , you know , sort of {disfmarker} Jerry pushed this idea from the very beginning , that it 's part of the understanding business to sort of make a good question of what 's s sort of important in this general picture , what you need t\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: If you wanna simulate it , for example , what parameters would you need for the simulation ? And , Timing , uh , uh , Length would definitely be part of it , \" Costs \" , \" Little money , some money , lots of money \" ?\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Actually , maybe uh F {comment} uh so , F Yeah , OK . Hmm ?\nGrad B: You could say \" some \" in there .\nPhD F: I must say that thi this one looks a bit strange to me . Um {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} It seems like appropriate if I go to Las Vegas . Well {disfmarker} but I decide k kind of how much money uh I 'm willing to lose . But a I as a tourist , I 'll just paying what 's {disfmarker} what 's more or less is required .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , no . I think there are {disfmarker} there 're different things where you have a ch choice ,\nUndergrad E: Mmm .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: for example , uh this t interacts with \" do am I do oh are you willing to take a taxi ? \"\nGrad B: Dinner .\nProfessor D: Or uh , you know , if {disfmarker} if you 're going to the opera are you gonna l look for the best seats or the peanut gallery\nPhD F: The best seat or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} Right .\nProfessor D: or , you know ,\n",
      "Grad B: OK . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: whatever ? S so I think there are a variety of things in which um {disfmarker} Tour - tourists really do have different styles eating . Another one ,\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: you know .\nUndergrad E: Right .\nPhD F: Right , that 's true .\n",
      "Grad C: The {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what my sort of sentiment is they 're {disfmarker} Well , I {disfmarker} I once had to write a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a charter , a carter for a {disfmarker} a student organization . And they had {disfmarker} wanted me to define what the quorum is going to be . And I looked at the other ones and they always said ten percent of the student body has to be present at their general meeting otherwise it 's not a {disfmarker} And I wrote in there \" En - Enough \" people have to be there . And it was hotly debated , but people agreed with me that everybody probably has a good feeling whether it was a farce , a joke , or whether there were enough people .\n",
      "Grad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: And if you go to Turkey , you will find when people go shopping , they will say \" How much cheese do you want ? \" and they say \" Ah , enough . \" And the {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} this used all over the place . Because the person selling the cheese knows , you know , that person has two kids and you know , a husband that dislikes cheese , so this is enough .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: And um so the middle part is always sort of the {disfmarker} the golden way , right ? So you can s you can be really {disfmarker} make it as cheap as possible , or you can say \" I want , er , you know , I don't care \"\nGrad B: Money is no object . Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Money is no object ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: or you say \" I just want to spend enough \" .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Or the sufficient , or the the appropriate amount .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: But , Then again , this may turn out to be insufficient for our purposes . But well , this is my first guess ,\nGrad B: I mean y Yeah .\nGrad C: in much the same way as how {disfmarker} how d you know {disfmarker} should the route be ? Should it be the easiest route , even if it 's a b little bit longer ?\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: No steep inclinations ? Go the normal way ? Whatever that again means , er {disfmarker} or do you {disfmarker} does the person wanna rough it ?\n",
      "Grad B: Mm - hmm . I mean {disfmarker} th so there 's a couple of different ways you can interpret these things right ? You know {disfmarker} \" I want to go there and I don't care if it 's really hard . \" Or if you 're an extreme sport person , you know . \" I wanna go there and I insist on it being the hard way . \"\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad B: Right ? you know , so I assume we 're going for the first interpretation ,\nUndergrad E: Right .\n",
      "Grad B: right ? Something like {disfmarker} I 'll go th I mean {disfmarker} I 'd li I dunno . It 's different from thing to {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: No , I think he was going for the second one ar actually .\nGrad B: Yeah ? I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Anyway , we 'll sort th yeah , we 'll sort that out .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Absolutely .\nGrad C: Well , this is all sort of um , top of my head .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: No {disfmarker} no research behind that . Um {disfmarker} \" Object information \" , \" Do I {disfmarker} do I wanna know anything about that object ? \" is either true or false . And . if I care about it being open , accessible or not , I don't think there 's any middle ground there . Um , either I wanna know where it is or not , I wanna know about it 's history or not , or , um I wanna know about what it 's good for or not . Maybe one could put scales in there , too . So I wanna know a l lot about it .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , now ob OK , I 'm sorry , go ahead , what were you gonna say ?\nGrad C: One could put scales in there . So I wanna know a lot about the history , just a bit .\nProfessor D: Yeah , right well y i w if we {disfmarker} w right . So \" object \" becomes \" entity \" , right ?\nGrad C: Yep , that 's true .\nProfessor D: Yeah , but we don't have to do it now .\nGrad C: Yep . That was the wrong shortcut anyhow .\n",
      "Professor D: And we think that 's it , interestingly enough , that um , you know , th or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or something very close to it is going to be uh {disfmarker} going to be enough . And {disfmarker}\nUndergrad E: Still wrong .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Alright , so um {disfmarker} So I think the order of things is that um , Robert will clean this up a little bit , although it looks pretty good . And {disfmarker}\nGrad C: What , well this is the part that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Huh ?\nGrad C: this is the part that needs the work .\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , so {disfmarker} right , so {disfmarker} So , um In parallel , uh {disfmarker} three things are going to happen . Uh Robert and Eva and Bhaskara are gonna actually {disfmarker} build a belief - net that {disfmarker} that , um , has CPT 's and , you know , tries to infer this from various kinds of information . And Fey is going to start collecting data , and we 're gonna start thinking a about {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} what constructions we want to elicit . And then w go it may iterate on uh , further data collection to elicit {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: D Do you mean {disfmarker} Do you mean eliciting particular constructions ? Or do you mean like what kinds of things we want to get people talking about ? Semantically speaking , eh ?\nProfessor D: Well , yes .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Both . Uh , and {disfmarker} Though for us , constructions are primarily semantic , right ?\nGrad B: Right . Sure .\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad B: I mean from my point of view I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm trying to care about the syntax , so you know {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Well that too ,\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: but um {disfmarker} You know if th if we in {disfmarker} if we you know , make sure that we get them talking about temporal order .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK , that would be great and if th if they use prepositional phrases or subordinate clauses or whatever ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm . Right . OK .\n",
      "Professor D: um {disfmarker} W You know , whatever form they use is fine .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: But I {disfmarker} I think that probably we 're gonna try to look at it as you know , s what semantic constructions d do we {disfmarker} do we want them to uh do direc\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: you know , um , \" Caused motion \" , I don't know , something like that .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Uh But , Eh - uh this is actually a conversation you and I have to have about your thesis fantasies , and how all this fits into that .\n",
      "Grad B: Got it . Yeah . Uh Yeah . OK .\nProfessor D: But uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Well , I will tell you the German tourist data .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: Because I have not been able to dig out all the stuff out of the m ta thirty D V\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: Um {disfmarker} If you {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Is that roughly the equivalent of {disfmarker} of what I 've seen in English or is it {disfmarker}\nGrad C: No , not at all .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Dialogues . SmartKom {disfmarker}\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: SmartKom {disfmarker} Human . Wizard of Oz .\nGrad B: OK . Same {disfmarker} OK , that . Got it . Like what {disfmarker} What have I got now ? I mean I have uh what {disfmarker} what I 'm loo what I {disfmarker} Those files that you sent me are the user side of some interaction with Fey ?\nGrad C: A little bit of data , I {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Is that what it is ? Or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad C: With nothing .\nGrad B: Just talking into a box and not hearing anything back .\nProfessor D: No , no .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad C: Yep . Some data I collected in a couple weeks for training recognizers and email way back when .\nGrad B: OK . OK .\nGrad C: Nothing to write home about .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: And um {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} see this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} ontology node is probably something that I will try to expand . Once we have the full ontology API , what can we expect to get from the ontology ? And hopefully you can sort of also try to find out , you know , sooner or later in the course of the summer what we can expect to get from the discourse that might , you know {disfmarker} or the {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: not the discourse , the utterance as it were , uh ,\nProfessor D: mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad C: in terms of uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Right , but we 're not expecting Keith to actually build a parser .\nGrad B: Right , Right .\nGrad C: No , no , no , no , no .\nProfessor D: OK . We are expecting Johno to build a parser ,\nGrad C: Uh , this is {disfmarker} Yes .\nGrad B: By the end of the summer , too .\n",
      "Professor D: but that 's a {disfmarker} No .\nGrad C: No .\nProfessor D: No . Uh {disfmarker} He 's g he 's hoping to do this for his masters ' thesis s by a year from now .\nGrad C: But it 's sort of {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Right . Hmm . Still , pretty formidable actually .\nProfessor D: Eh - absolutely . Uh {disfmarker} limited . I mean , you know , the idea is {disfmarker} is ,\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , the hope is that the parser itself is , uh , pretty robust . But it 's not popular {disfmarker} it 's only p only {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Right , Right . Existence proof , you know . Set up the infrastructure ,\nProfessor D: Right . It 's only popula\nGrad B: yeah .\nProfessor D: Right .\n",
      "Grad B: Um sometime , I have to talk to some subset of the people in this group , at least about um what sort of constructions I 'm looking for . I mean , you know obviously like just again , looking at this one uh thing , you know , I saw y things from {disfmarker} sort of as general as argument structure constructions . Oh , you know , I have to do Verb Phrase . I have to do uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} unbounded dependencies , you know , which have a variety of constructions in {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} instantiate that . On the other hand I have to have , you know , there 's particular uh , fixed expressions , or semi - fixed expressions like \" Get \" plus path expression for , you know , \" how d ho how do I get there ? \" ,\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: \" How do I get in ? \" , \" How do I get away ? \"\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad B: and all that kind of stuff . Um , so there 's a variety of sort of different sorts of constructions\nProfessor D: Absolutely .\nGrad B: and it {disfmarker} you know it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of like anything goes . Like {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: OK , so this is {disfmarker} I think we 're gonna mainly work on with George .\nGrad B: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: OK , and hi let me f th {disfmarker} say what I think is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} so the idea is {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} first of all I misspoke when I said we thought you should do the constructions . Cause apparently for a linguist that means to do completely and perfectly . So what I {disfmarker} yeah , OK , {disfmarker} So what {disfmarker} what I meant was \" Do a first cut at \" .\nGrad B: er {disfmarker} that 's what Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: OK , Because uh {disfmarker} we do wanna get them r u perfectly {disfmarker} but I think we 're gonna have to do a first cut at a lot of them to see how they interact .\nGrad B: Of course . Right , exactly . Now it {disfmarker} w we talked about this before , right . And I {disfmarker} I me it would it would be completely out of the question to really do more than , say , like , oh I don't know , ten , over the summer ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: but uh , but you know obviously we need to get sort of a general view of what things look like , so yeah .\nProfessor D: Right . So the idea is going to be to do {disfmarker} sort of like Nancy did in some of the er these papers where you do enough of them so you can go from top to bottom {disfmarker} so you can do f you know , f f uh {disfmarker} have a complete story ov of s of some piece of dialogue .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And that 's gonna be much more useful than having all of the clausal constructions and nothing else , or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or something like that .\nGrad B: Yeah . Sure . Yeah .\nProfessor D: So that the {disfmarker} the trick is going to be t to take this and pick a {disfmarker} some sort of lattice of constructions ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: so some lexical and some phrasal , and {disfmarker} and , you know ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: whatever you need in order to uh , be able to then , uh , by hand , you know , explain , some fraction of the utterances .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor D: And so , exactly which ones will partly depend on your research interests and a bunch of other things .\n",
      "Grad B: Mm - hmm . Sure . OK . But I mean in terms of the s th sort of level of uh {disfmarker} of analysis , you know , these don't necessarily have to be more complex than like the \" Out of \" construction in the BCP paper where it 's just like , you know , half a page on each one or something .\nProfessor D: Correct . Oh yeah {disfmarker} yeah . V a half a page is {disfmarker} is what we 'd like .\nGrad B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: And if {disfmarker} if there 's something that really requires a lot more than that then it does and we have to do it ,\nGrad B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: but {disfmarker}\nGrad B: For the first cut , that should be fine , yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: We could sit down and think of sort of the {disfmarker} the ideal speaker utterances ,\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: and I mean two or three that follow each other , so , where we can also sort of , once we have everything up and running , show the tremendous , insane inferencing capabilities of our system .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: So , you know , as {disfmarker} as the SmartKom people have . This is sort of their standard demo dialogue , which is , you know , what the system survives and nothing but that .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Um , we could also sor sort of have the analogen of o our sample sentences , the ideal sentences where we have complete construction coverage and , sort of , they match nicely .\nGrad B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: So the {disfmarker} the \" How do I get to X ? \" ,\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: you know , that 's definitely gonna be uh , a major one .\nGrad B: Yeah . That 's about six times in this little one here , so uh , {vocalsound} yeah .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor D: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: \" Where is X ? \" might be another one which is not too complicated .\nGrad B: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: And um \" Tell me something about X . \"\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: And hey , that 's {disfmarker} that 's already covering eighty percent of the system 's functionality .\nProfessor D: Ye - Right , but it 's not covering eighty percent of the intellectual interest .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad C: No , we can w throw in an \" Out of Film \" construction if you want to , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: No , no , no . Well the {disfmarker} th the thing is there 's a lot that needs to be done to get this right .\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor D: OK , I th We done ?\nGrad C: I have one bit of news .\nProfessor D: Good .\nGrad C: Um , the action planner guy has wrote {disfmarker} has written a {disfmarker} a p lengthy {disfmarker} proposal on how he wants to do the action planning .\nProfessor D: Good .\nGrad C: And I responded to him , also rather lengthy , how he should do the action planning . And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: \" Action planning \" meaning \" Discourse Modeling \" ?\nGrad C: Yes . And I tacked on a little paragraph about the fact that the whole world calls that module a dis disc dialogue manager ,\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad C: and wouldn't it make sense to do this here too ?\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad C: And also Rainer M Malaka is going to be visiting us shortly , most likely in the beginning of June .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh , I 'll be gone .\nGrad C: Yeah . He - he 's just in a conference somewhere and he is just swinging through town .\nProfessor D: Sure , OK .\n",
      "Grad C: And um {disfmarker} m making me incapable of going to NAACL , for which I had funding . But . No , no Pittsburg this year .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nGrad C: When is the uh Santa Barbara ?\nProfessor D: S\nGrad C: Who is going to ? uh should a lot of people . That 's something I will {disfmarker} would {disfmarker} sort of enjoy .\nProfessor D: Probably should go . That was {disfmarker} that 's one you should probably go to .\nGrad C: Yep .\nGrad B: How much does it cost ?\nGrad C: There 's\n",
      "Grad B: I haven't planned to go .\nProfessor D: Uh , probably we can uh {disfmarker} pay for it .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: Um a student rate shouldn't be very high . So , if we all decide it 's a good idea for you to go then you 'll {disfmarker} we 'll pay for it .\nGrad B: Right . Sure .\nUndergrad E: Then you can go .\nProfessor D: I mean I {disfmarker} I don't have a feeling one way or the other at the moment ,\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor D: but it probably is . OK , great .\n"
    ],
    "length": 16301,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 53,
    "question": "What were the topics talked about in the meeting?",
    "answer": "The group discussed recording equipment issues, including the purchase of two additional headsets and the prospect of getting a new base station and a set of wireless microphones to replace those wired microphones currently in use. Speaker fe008 presented the current status on transcriptions, and explained procedures for cleaning up transcripts and ensuring they conform with set conventions. Speaker mn014 briefly described his efforts to normalize loudness levels across speech channels to distinguish between foreground and background speech. Finally, the group discussed legal and procedural issues concerning the provision of transcripts to meeting participants for 'bleeping out' any sections of speech they want excluded from the Meeting Recorder database.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor E: Alright .\nGrad C: So are you {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: So .\nGrad C: Are we going ?\nProfessor E: It is uh , must be February fifteenth .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nGrad C: Yu I think the date 's written in there , yep . And actually if everyone could cross out the R - nine next to \" Session \" , and write MR eleven .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah . We didn't have a front - end meeting today .\nGrad C: And let 's remember also to make sure that one 's {comment} gets marked as unread , unused .\nProfessor E: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: MR eleven .\nGrad C: MR eleven .\nPostdoc F: That sounds like a spy code .\nProfessor E: Mmm . OK . So .\nGrad C: There 's lots of clicking I 'm sure as I 'm trying to get this to work {pause} correctly .\nProfessor E: Agenda . Any agenda items today ?\n",
      "Grad C: I wanna talk a little bit about getting {disfmarker} how we 're gonna to get people to edit bleeps , parts of the meeting that they don't want to include . What I 've done so far , and I wanna get some opinions on , how to {disfmarker} how to finish it up .\nProfessor E: OK .\nPostdoc F: I wanna ask about um , some aud audio monitoring on some of the {pause} um {pause} well some of the equipment . In particular , the {disfmarker} well uh , that 's just what I wanna ask .\nProfessor E: OK audio monitoring , Jane .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Ba - based on some of the tran uh {disfmarker} i In listening to {pause} some of these meetings that have already been recorded there are sometimes big spikes on particular things , and in pact {disfmarker} in fact this one I 'm talking on is one of {disfmarker} of the ones that showed up in one of the meetings ,\nGrad C: Oh really .\nPostdoc F: so I {disfmarker}\nPhD B: \" Spikes \" , you mean like uh , instantaneous click type spikes , or {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Spikes ?\nGrad C: Clicks .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Hmm .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nPhD B: Huh .\nPostdoc F: And I don't know what the e electronics is but .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nGrad C: Well , I think it 's\nPhD A: Touching .\nGrad C: uh , it {disfmarker} it could be a number of things .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: It could be touching and fiddling , and the other thing is that it could {disfmarker} the fact that it 's on a wired mike is suspicious . It might be a connector .\nPostdoc F: Oh , OK . Well maybe {disfmarker} Then we don't really have to talk about that as an {disfmarker}\nPhD B: You could try an experiment and say \" OK , I 'm about to test for spikes \" ,\nPostdoc F: I {disfmarker} I take that off the agenda .\n",
      "PhD B: and then wiggle the thing there , and then go and when they go to transcribe it , it could , ask them to come and get you .\nGrad C: Yeah . Right .\nPhD B: \" Come get me when you transcribe this and see if there 's spikes . \"\nPostdoc F: Oh that {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Um .\nPostdoc F: Well , OK .\nPhD B: No I 'm just {disfmarker} \n",
      "Professor E: I mean , were this a professional audio recording , {vocalsound} what we would do {disfmarker} {comment} what you would do is {disfmarker} in testing it is , you would actually do all this wiggling and make sure that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that things are not giving that kind of performance . And if they are , then they can't be used .\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: So . Um . Let 's see . I guess {pause} I would like to have a discussion about you know where we are on uh , recording , transcription you know , basically you know where we are on the corpus .\nPostdoc F: Good .\n",
      "Professor E: And then um , the other thing which I would like to talk about which is a real meta - quest , I think , deal is , uh , agendas . So maybe I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll start with that actually . Uh , um . {vocalsound} Andreas brought up the fact that he would kinda like to know , if possible , what we were gonna be talking about because he 's sort of peripherally involved to this point , and if there 's gonna be a topic about {disfmarker} discussion about something that he uh strongly cares about then he would come and {disfmarker} And I think part of {disfmarker} part of his motivation with this is that he 's trying to help us out , in the {disfmarker} because of uh the fact that the meetings are {disfmarker} are tending to become reasonably large now on days when everybody shows up and so , he figures he could help that out by not showing {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Mmm .\nProfessor E: and {disfmarker} and I 'm sure help out his own time . by not showing up if it 's a meeting that he 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} So , uh in order {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} I think that this is a wish on his part . Uh . It 's actually gonna be hard because it seems like a lot of times uh things come up that are unanticipated and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: But um , we could try anyway , uh , do another try at coming up with the agenda uh , at some point before the meeting , uh , say the day before .\nGrad C: Well maybe it would be a good idea for one of us to {pause} like on Wednesday , or Tuesday send out a reminder for people to send in agenda items .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: OK . You {disfmarker} you wanna volunteer to do that ?\nGrad C: Sure .\nProfessor E: OK . Alright so we 'll send out agenda request .\nGrad C: Let me\nProfessor E: Uh .\n",
      "PhD B: That 'll be {disfmarker} I think that 'll help {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I 'll put that on my spare brain or it will not {pause} get done .\nPhD B: That 'll help a lot , actually .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , I have to tell you for the uh {disfmarker} for the admin meeting that we have , Lila does that um every time before an admin meeting . And uh , she ends up getting the agenda requests uh , uh ten minutes before the meeting . But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} {comment} But . Uh . {comment} But we can try . Maybe it 'll work .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nGrad C: Yeah . Maybe . Weirder things have happened .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I 'm wondering if he were to just , uh , specify particular topics , I mean . Maybe we 'd be able to meet that request of his a little more .\nPhD B: I would {disfmarker} I would also guess that as we get more into processing the data and things like that there 'll be more things of interest to him .\nGrad C: Well then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . Actually it {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} this maybe brings up another topic which is um {disfmarker} So we 're done with that topic . The other topic I was thinking of was the sta status on microphones and channels , and all that .\nGrad C: Yeah , actually I {disfmarker} I was going to say we need to {pause} talk about that too .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Why {disfmarker} why don't we do that .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . Um , the new microphones , the two new ones are in . Um . {pause} And they are being assembled as we speak , I hope . And I didn't bring my car today so I 'm gonna pick them up tomorrow . Um , and then the other question I was thinking about is {disfmarker} well , a couple things . First of all , if the other headsets are a lot more comfortable , we should probably just go ahead and get them . So we 'll have to evaluate that when they come in ,\nPhD A: \n",
      "Grad C: and get people 's opinions on {disfmarker} on what they think of them . Um , then the other question I had is maybe we should get another wireless . Another wireless setup . I mean it 's expensive , but it does seem to be {pause} better than the wired .\nProfessor E: So how many channels do you get to have in a wireless setup ?\n",
      "Grad C: Um , well , I 'm pretty sure that you can daisy - chain them together so what we would do is replace the wired mikes with wireless . So we currently have one base station with six wireless mike , possibility of six wireless receivers , and apparently you can chain those together . And so we could replace our wired mikes with wireless if we bought another base station and more wireless mikes .\nProfessor E: So , um .\nGrad C: And {disfmarker} So , you know it 's still , it 's fifteen minus six .\nProfessor E: So let 's see we {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Right ? So we could have up to nine .\nProfessor E: And right now we can have up to six .\nGrad C: Right . And we have five , we 're getting one more .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: And it 's um , about nine hundred dollars for the base station , and then eight hundred per channel .\nProfessor E: Oh . So yeah so the only {disfmarker} Beyond the mike {disfmarker} the cost of the mikes the only thing is the base station that 's nine hundred dollars .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor E: Oh , we should do it .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . OK , so I 'll look into how you daisy - chain them and {disfmarker} and then just go ahead and order them .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD B: I don't quite understand how that {disfmarker} how that works , . If {disfmarker} So we 're not increasing the number of channels . OK .\nGrad C: No , we 're just replacing the wired {disfmarker} the two wired that are still working ,\nPhD B: OK . I see .\n",
      "Grad C: along with a couple of the wired that aren't working , one of the wired that 's not working , with a wireless .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Three wireds work ,\nProfessor E: Basically we found {disfmarker}\nPhD B: right ?\nGrad C: I {disfmarker} I guess three wireds work , yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah . But we 've had more problems with that .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor E: And that sort of bypasses the whole {disfmarker} the whole Jimbox thing and all that .\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: And so um , we {disfmarker} we seem to have uh , a reliable way of getting the data in , which is through the ra Sony radio mikes , as long as we 're conscious about the batteries .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor E: That seems to be the key issue .\nGrad C: Everyone 's battery OK ?\nPhD B: I checked them this morning , they should be .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . Um , {vocalsound} That 's the only thing with them . But the quality seems really good and {disfmarker} Um I heard from UW that they 're {disfmarker} they 're uh very close to getting their , uh setup purchased . They 're {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} they 're buying something that you can just sort of buy off the shelf .\n",
      "Grad C: Well we should talk to them about it because I know that SRI is also in the process of looking at stuff , and so , you know , what we should try to keep everyone {disfmarker} on the same page with that .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD B: SRI , really ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPhD B: Oh .\nGrad C: They got sa apparent Well , Maybe {pause} this needs to be bleeped out ? I have no clue .\nProfessor E: Uh , I don't know .\nGrad C: I don't know how much of it 's public .\n",
      "Professor E: Probably we shouldn't {disfmarker} probably we shouldn't talk about funding stuff .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor E: Yeah . But anyway there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's uh , uh other activities that are going on there and {disfmarker} and uh {disfmarker} and NIST and UW . So . Um . But {disfmarker} but yeah I thin I think that at least the message we can tell other people is that our experience is {disfmarker} is quite positive with the Sony ,\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: uh , radio - mikes . Now the one thing that you have said that actually concerns me a little is you 're talking about changing the headsets meaning changing the connector , which means some hand - soldering or something , right ?\nGrad C: Uh , no , we 're having the {disfmarker} them do it .\nProfessor E: No ?\nGrad C: So it 's so hand - soldering it , but I 'm not doing it .\nProfessor E: Oh .\nGrad C: So , they {disfmarker} they charge\nProfessor E: OK . Nothing against you and your hand - soldering\nGrad C: right .\n",
      "Professor E: but {disfmarker}\nGrad C: You 've never seen my hand - soldering . But uh , a as I said they 're coming in .\nProfessor E: Uh , OK , so that 's being done professionally and {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah . I mean .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: As professionally as I guess you can get it done .\nProfessor E: Well , it could {disfmarker} if they do a lot of it , it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: I mean i it 's just their repair shop . Right ? Their maintenance people .\nProfessor E: Well , we 'll see what it {disfmarker} it 's like .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor E: That {disfmarker} tha that can be quite good . Th - this {disfmarker} Yeah , OK . Good . Yeah . So let 's go with that .\nGrad C: And , I mean we 'll see , tomorrow , you know , what it looks like .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , Yeah . So , um , uh , Dave isn't here but he was going to start working on some things with the digits . Uh , so he 'll be interested in what 's going on with that . I guess {disfmarker} Was {disfmarker} the decision last time was that the {disfmarker} the uh transcribers were going to be doing stuff with the digits as well ? Has that started , or is that {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Uh , it would be to use his interface and I was going to meet with him today about that .\n",
      "Grad C: Right , so , the decision was that Jane did not want the transcribers to be doing any of the paperwork . So I did the {disfmarker} all that last week . So all the {disfmarker} all the forms are now {pause} on the computer . And uh , then I have a bunch of scripts that we 'll read those and let the uh {pause} transcribers use different tools . And I just want to talk to Jane about how we transition to using those .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . So he has a nice set up that they {disfmarker} it w it will be efficient for them to do that .\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad C: I {disfmarker} I don't think it 'll take too long .\nProfessor E: So anyway {disfmarker}\nGrad C: So , you know , just uh , a matter of a few days I suspect .\nProfessor E: So anyway I think we {disfmarker} we have at least one uh , user for the digits once they get done , which will be Dave .\n",
      "Grad C: Right . I 've already done five or six {pause} sets .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nGrad C: So if he wanted to , you know , just have a few to start with , he could . You know , and I also have a bunch of scripts that will , like , generate P - files and run recognition on them also .\nProfessor E: Yeah , he might {disfmarker} he might be asking {disfmarker} Right . OK . Uh , is Dave {disfmarker} I don't know if Dave is on the list , if he 's invited to these meetings , uh if he knows .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I don't tend to get an invitation myself for them even .\nPhD A: No , no .\nGrad C: Uh , we don't have a active one but I 'll make sure he 's on the list .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Should we call him ? I mean is he {disfmarker} d is he definitely not available today ?\nProfessor E: I don't know .\nPostdoc F: Should I call his office and see ?\nPhD A: He was in .\nGrad C: I mean , he 's still taking classes , so uh , he may well have conflicts .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , well i it 's uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah , he was in {pause} s\nPostdoc F: He wasn't there at cof\nProfessor E: Yeah , so this might be a conflict for him .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor E: OK . Uh , so .\nGrad C: Yeah didn't he say his signal - processing class was like {pause} Tuesdays and Thursdays ?\nPhD A: I think he has a class . Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah . He might have .\n",
      "Grad C: Oh well , whatever .\nGrad D: You talking about David Gelbart ?\nProfessor E: Oh , OK .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yes .\nGrad D: Yeah , I think he 's taking two twenty - five A which is now .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad D: So .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor E: OK . So , that 's why we 're not seeing him . OK . Uh , transcriptions , uh , beyond the digits , where we are , and so on .\nPostdoc F: OK .\n",
      "Professor E: And the {disfmarker} and the recordings also ,\nPostdoc F: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: just where we are . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Well , so um , should we {disfmarker} we don't wan wanna do the recording status first , or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: Well , we have about thirty - two hours uh as of , I guess a week and a half ago , so we probably now have about thirty - five hours .\n",
      "Professor E: And {disfmarker} and that 's {disfmarker} that 's uh {disfmarker} How much of that is digits ? It 's uh {disfmarker} that 's including digits ,\nGrad C: That 's including digits .\nProfessor E: right ?\nGrad C: I haven't separated it out so I have no clue how much of that is digits .\nProfessor E: So {disfmarker} Yeah . So anyway there 's at least probably thirty hours , or something of {disfmarker} There 's got to be more than thirty hour {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Of {disfmarker} of non - digits ?\nProfessor E: i it couldn't {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} Of non - digits .\nGrad C: Yeah , absolutely . I mean , the digits don't take up that much time .\nProfessor E: Yeah , yeah . OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: OK , and the transcribers h I , uh , don't have the exact numbers , but I {pause} think it would come to about eleven hours that are finished uh , transcribing from them right now . The next step is to {disfmarker} that I 'm working on is to insure that the data are clean first , and then channelized . What I mean by clean is that they 're spell - checked , that the mark - up is consistent all the way throughout , and also that we now incorporate these additional conventions that uh , Liz requested in terms of um , um {pause} in terms of having a s a systematic handling of numbers , and acronyms which I hadn't been specific about . Um , for example , i they 'll say uh \" ninety - two \" . And you know , so how {disfmarker} you could {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: Nine two ,\nPostdoc F: e Exactly .\nGrad C: right .\nPostdoc F: So if you just say \" nine two \" , the {disfmarker} there are many s ways that could have been expressed . An - and I just had them {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , a certain number of them did put the words down , but now we have a convention which also involves having it followed by , um , a gloss th and things .\nPhD B: You know , Jane ?\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Um , one suggestion and you may already be doing this , but I 've noticed in the past that when I 've gone through transcriptions and you know in {disfmarker} in order to build lexicons and things , if you um , just take all the transcriptions and separate them into words and then alphabetize them , {comment} a lot of times just scanning down that list you 'll find a lot of {pause} inconsistencies and mis\nGrad C: Misspelled .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: You 're talking about the type token frequency listings , and I use those too . Y you mean just uh {pause} on each {disfmarker} on each line there 's a one word right ? It 's one token from the {disfmarker} from the corpus .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , those are e extremely efficient and I and I {disfmarker} I agree that 's a very good use of it .\nPhD B: Oh so you already have that , OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well that 's {disfmarker} that 's a way {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} You know , the spell - check basically does that but {disfmarker} but in addition {disfmarker} yes , that 's {disfmarker} that 's exactly the strategy I wanna do in terms of locating these things which are you know colloquial spoken forms which aren't in the lexicon .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Cuz a lot of times they 'll appear next to each other , and uh ,\n",
      "Postdoc F: Exactly . And then you ca then you can do a s\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: i in alphabetized lists , they 'll appear next to each other and {disfmarker} and so it makes it easier .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Absolutely . I agree . That 's a very good {disfmarker} that 's a very good uh , suggestion . And that was {disfmarker} that 's my strategy for handling a lot of these things , in terms of things that need to be glossed . I didn't get to that point but {disfmarker} So there are numbers , then there are acronyms , and then um , there 's a {disfmarker} he she wants the uh , actually a {disfmarker} an explicit marker of what type of comment this is , so i curly b inside the curly brackets I 'm gonna put either \" VOC \" for vocalized , like cough or like laugh or whatever , \" NONVOC \" for door - slam , and \" GLOSS \" for things that have to do with {disfmarker} if they said a s a spoken form with this {disfmarker} m this pronunciation error .\n",
      "Grad C: Right .\nPostdoc F: I already had that convention\nPhD B: Oh that 's great .\nPostdoc F: but I {disfmarker} I haven't been asking these people to do it systematically cuz I think it most {disfmarker} ha most efficiently handled by uh {disfmarker} by a {disfmarker} a filter . That was what I was always planing on . So that , you know you get a whole long list {disfmarker} exactly what you 're saying , you get a whole list of things that say \" curly bracket laugh curly bracket \" ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: then y you know it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you risk less error if you handle it by a filter , than if you have this transcriber ch laboriously typing in sort of a VOC space ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: so man So many ways that error prone .\nPhD B: Right . Right .\n",
      "Postdoc F: So , um , {vocalsound} um I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm going to convert that via a filter , into these tagged uh , subcategorized comments , and same thing with you know , we see you get a subset when you do what you 're saying ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: you end up with a s with uh , you 're collapsing across a frequency you just have the tokens\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: and you can um , have a filter which more efficiently makes those changes . But the numbers and acronyms have to be handled by hand , because , you know I mean , jus\nGrad C: You don't know what they could be .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah now TIMIT 's clear um {pause} and PLP is clear but uh there are things that are not so well known , in {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or have variant {disfmarker} u u uses like the numbers you can say \" nine two \" or you can say \" ninety - two \" ,\n",
      "Grad C: So how are you doing the {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: and uh I 'd handle the numbers individually .\nGrad C: How are you doing the uh , acronyms so if I say PZM what would it appear on the transcript ?\nPostdoc F: It would be separate {disfmarker} The letters would be separated in space\nGrad C: OK .\nPostdoc F: and potentially they 'll have a curly bracket thing afterwards e but I 'm not sure if that 's necessary , clarifying what it is ,\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: so gloss of {pause} whatever .\n",
      "Grad C: Right .\nPostdoc F: I don't know if that 's really necessary to do that . Maybe it 's a nice thing to do because of it then indicating this is uh , a step away from i indicating that it really is intentional that those spaces are there , and indicating why they 're there to indicate that it 's uh {vocalsound} the you know , {comment} uh enumerated , or i\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: it 's not a good way of saying {disfmarker} but it 's {disfmarker} it 's the {vocalsound} specific uh way of stating these {disfmarker} these letters .\nGrad C: Right . So it sounds good .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And so anyway , the clean {disfmarker} those are those things and then channelized is to then um , get it into this multichannel format . And at that point then it 's ready for use by Liz and Don . But that 's been my top priority {disfmarker} beyond getting it tanel channelized , the next step is to work on tightening up the boundaries of the time bins .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And uh , Thilo had a {disfmarker} e e a breakthrough with this {disfmarker} this last week in terms of getting the channel - based um uh s s speech - nonspeech segmentation um , up and running and I haven't {disfmarker} I haven't been able to use that yet cuz I 'm working s re this is my top priority {disfmarker} get the data clean , and channelized .\nPhD A: I actually gave\nGrad C: Have you also been doing spot checks , Jane ?\nPostdoc F: Oh yes .\nGrad C: Okay , good .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well you see that 's part of the cleaning process . I spent um actually um I have a segment of ten minutes that was transcribed by two of our transcribers ,\nGrad C: Oh good . Good .\nPostdoc F: and I went through it last night , it 's {disfmarker} it 's almost spooky how similar these are , word for word . And there are some differences in commas cuz commas I {disfmarker} I left them discretion at commas .\nGrad C: Right .\nPostdoc F: Uh {disfmarker} and so because it 's not part of our st of our ne needed conventions .\n",
      "Professor E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And um , and {disfmarker} so they 'll be a difference in commas , but it 's word - by - word the same , in {disfmarker} in huge patches of the data . And I have t ten minute stretch where I can {disfmarker} where I can show that . And {disfmarker} and sometimes it turns out that one of these transcribers has a better ear for technical jargon , and the other one has a better ear for colloquial speech . So um , the one i i the colloquial speech person picked up \" gobbledy - gook \" .\nPhD B: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And the other one didn't . And on this side , this one 's picking up things like \" neural nets \" and the one that 's good on the sp o on th the vocabulary on the uh colloquial didn't .\nGrad C: Right .\nPhD B: When {disfmarker} for the person who missed \" gobbledy - gook \" what did they put ?\nPostdoc F: It was an interesting approximation , put in parentheses , cuz I have this convention that , i if they 're not sure what it was , they put it in parentheses .\nPhD B: Oh .\n",
      "Postdoc F: So they tried to approximate it , but it was {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Oh good .\nPostdoc F: it was spelled GABBL {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Sort of how it sounds . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yes . More of an attempt to {disfmarker} I mean apparently it was very clear to her that these {disfmarker} the a this {disfmarker} this was a sound {disfmarker} these are the sounds ,\nGrad C: It was a technical term that she didn't recognize ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: but {disfmarker} Yeah . But she knew that she didn't know it . Maybe it was a technical ter exactly . But she {disfmarker} even though her technical perception is just really {disfmarker} uh you know I 've {disfmarker} I 'm tempted to ask her if she 's taken any courses in this area or if she 's taken cognitive science courses\nGrad C: Right .\nPostdoc F: then cuz \" neural nets \" and {disfmarker} oh she has some things that are {disfmarker} oh \" downsampled \" , she got that right .\nPhD B: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And some of these are rather {pause} uh unexpected .\nGrad C: Obscure , yeah .\nPostdoc F: But ch ten solid uh {disfmarker} m ch s chunk of ten solid minutes where they both coded the same data .\nProfessor E: And {disfmarker} and again the main track that you 're working with is elev eleven hours ?\nPostdoc F: And um {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Is that right ?\nPostdoc F: Yes exactly .\nProfessor E: Yeah , OK .\nPostdoc F: And that 's part of this {disfmarker} Eleven hours .\n",
      "Professor E: Is that {disfmarker} is that {disfmarker} that including digits ? Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yes it is .\nProfessor E: So let 's say roughly {pause} ten hours or so of {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: I mean it 's probably more than that but {disfmarker} but with {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of non - digits .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: It 'd be more than that because I {disfmarker} my recollection is the minutes {disfmarker} that da digits don't take more than half a minute . Per person .\nProfessor E: Oh , OK .\nPostdoc F: But um {pause} the {disfmarker} the total set that I gave them is twelve hours of tape ,\nProfessor E: Oh , I see .\nPostdoc F: But they haven't gotten to the end of that yet .\nProfessor E: Oh , I see .\n",
      "Postdoc F: So they 're still working {disfmarker} some of them are {disfmarker} Two of them are still working on completing that . Yeah .\nPhD B: Boy , they 're moving right along .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . They are . Mm - hmm . They 're very efficient . There 're some who have more hours that they devote to it than others .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: So what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what 's the deal with {disfmarker} with your {disfmarker}\nPhD A: The channel u thing ?\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , it 's just uh , I ran the recognizer {disfmarker} uh , the {pause} {comment} speech - nonspeech detector on different channels and , it 's just in uh {disfmarker} in this new multi - channel format and output , and I just gave one {disfmarker} one meeting to {disfmarker} to Liz who wanted to {disfmarker} to try it for {disfmarker} for the recognizer\nProfessor E: Oh , I see .\nPhD A: as uh , apparently the recognizer had problems with those long chunks of speech , which took too much memory or whatever ,\n",
      "Professor E: Right .\nPhD A: and so {pause} she {disfmarker} she will try that I think\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD A: and {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm working on it . So , I hope {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Is this anything different than the HMM system you were using before ?\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD A: No . Uh , I {pause} mmm , use some {disfmarker} some different features but not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: The basic thing is this HMM base .\nGrad C: So there 's still no {disfmarker} no knowledge using different channels at the same time .\nPhD A: There is some , uh as the energy is normalized across channels\nGrad C: You know what I mean ? Across all of them .\nPhD A: yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\nPhD A: So . But basically that 's one of the main changes .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm . What are some of the other features ? Besides the energy ? You said you 're trying some different features , or something .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh I just uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Mmm , I just use um our loudness - based things now as they {disfmarker} before there were {disfmarker} they were some in {disfmarker} in the log domain and I {disfmarker} I changed this to the {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Cu - Cube root ?\nPhD A: Yeah . To {disfmarker} No , I changed this to the {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} to the loudness thingy with the {disfmarker} with the\n",
      "Grad C: Hmm .\nProfessor E: Ah .\nPhD A: how do you call it ? I 'm not sure . With the , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Fletcher Munson ? No .\nPhD A: I 'm not sure about the term .\nProfessor E: Oh , OK .\nPhD A: Uh , I 'll look it up . And say it to you .\nProfessor E: Yeah , alright .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , OK , and {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} that 's basically the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the thing . Yeah , and I {disfmarker} and I tried t to normalize uh {disfmarker} uh the features , there 's loudness and modified loudness , um , within one channel ,\nProfessor E: OK .\nPhD A: because they 're , {vocalsound} yeah to {disfmarker} to be able to distinguish between foreground and background speech . And it works quite well . But , not always .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh - huh . Uh - huh .\nPhD A: So .\nProfessor E: OK .\nGrad C: Good .\nProfessor E: Um , let 's see . I think the uh {disfmarker} Were {disfmarker} were you basically done with the transcription part ? So I guess the next thing is this uh {disfmarker} bleep editing .\n",
      "Grad C: Right . So the {disfmarker} The idea is that we need to have {disfmarker} We need to provide the transcripts to every participant of every meeting to give them an opportunity to bleep out sections they don't want . So I 've written a bunch of tools that will generate web pages , uh with the transcription in it so that they can click on them and piece {disfmarker} pieces and they can scroll through and read them , and then they can check on each one if they want it excluded . And then , it 's a form , HTML form , so they can submit it and it will end up sending me email with the times that they want excluded . And so , uh , some of the questions on this is what do we do about the privacy issue . And so I thought about this a little bit and I think the best way to do it is every participant will have a password ,\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: a single password . Each person will have a single password , user name and password . And then each meeting , we 'll only allow the participants who were at that meeting to look at it . And that way each person only has to remember one password .\n",
      "Professor E: I {disfmarker} I can't help but wonder if this is maybe a little more elaborate than is needed . I mean if people have {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , for me I would actually want to have some pieces of paper that had the transcription and I would sort of flip through it . And then {pause} um {pause} if I thought it was OK , I 'd say \" it 's OK \" .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: And , I {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} I mean it depends how this really ends up working out , but I guess my thought was that the occasion of somebody wondering whether something was OK or not and needing to listen to it was gonna be extremely rare .\nGrad C: Right , I mean so th th th the fact that you could listen to it over the web is a minor thing that I had already done for {pause} other reasons .\nProfessor E: OK .\n",
      "Grad C: And so that {disfmarker} that 's a minor part of it , I just wanted some web interface so that people {disfmarker} you didn't actually have to send everyone the text . So m what my intention to do is that as the transcripts become ready , um {pause} I would take them , and generate the web pages and send email to every participant or contact them using the contact method they wanted , and just uh , tell them , \" here 's the web page \" , um , \" you need a password \" . So th th question number one is how do we distribute the passwords , and question number two is how else do we wanna provide this information if they want it .\n",
      "Professor E: That 's {disfmarker} I think what I was sort of saying is that if you just say {vocalsound} \" here is a {disfmarker} here is {disfmarker} \" I mean this maybe it sounds paleolithic but {disfmarker} but I just thought if you handed them some sheets of paper , that said , uh , \" here 's what was said in this transcription is it OK with you ? and if it is , here 's this other sheet of paper that you sign that says that it 's OK \" .\n",
      "Grad C: I think that um there are a subset of people who will want printouts that we can certainly provide .\nProfessor E: And then they 'd hand it back to you .\nGrad C: But certainly I wouldn't want a printout . These are big , and I would much rather be {pause} ha be able to just sit and leaf through it .\nProfessor E: You find it easier to go through a large {disfmarker} I mean how do you read books ?\nGrad C: Well I certainly read books by hand . But for something like this , I think it 's easier to do it on the web .\n",
      "Professor E: Really ? I mean , it {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Cuz you 're gonna get , you know , if I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm in a bunch of meetings and I don't wanna get a stack of these . I wanna just be able to go to {disfmarker} go to the web site {comment} and visit it as I want .\nProfessor E: Going to a web site is easy , but flipping through a hundred pounds {disfmarker} a hundred pages of stuff is not easy on the web .\n",
      "Grad C: Well , I don't think it 's that much harder than , paper . So .\nProfessor E: Really ?\nPostdoc F: I have one question . So are you thinking that um the person would have a transcript and go strictly from the transcript ? Because I {disfmarker} I do think that there 's a benefit to being able to hear the tone of voice and the {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: So here 's the way I was imagining it , and maybe I 'm wrong ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: but the way I imagined it was that um , the largest set of people is gonna go \" oh yeah , I didn't say anything funny in that meeting just go ahead , where 's the {disfmarker} where 's the release ? \" And then there 'll be a subset of people , right ? {disfmarker} OK there 's {disfmarker} I mean think of who it is we 've been recording mostly .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: OK there 'll be a subset of people , who um , will say uh \" well , yeah , I really would like to see that . \" And for them , the easiest way to flip through , if it 's a really large document , I mean unless you 're searching . Searching , of course , should be electronic , but if you 're not {disfmarker} so if you provide some search mechanism you go to every place they said something or something like that ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: but see then we 're getting more elaborate with this thing . Um if {disfmarker} if uh you don't have search mechanisms you just sort of have this really , really long document , I mean whenever I 've had a really , really long document that it was sitting on the web , I 've always ended up printing it out . I mean , so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I mean , you {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you 're not necessarily gonna be sitting at the desk all the time , you wanna figure you have a train ride , and there 's all these situations where {disfmarker} where I {disfmarker} I mean , this is how I was imagining it , anyway . And then I figured , that out of that group , there would be a subset who would go \" hmm you know I 'm really not sure about this section here , \" and then that group would need it {disfmarker} S It seems like i if I 'm right in that , it seems like you 're setting it up for the most infrequent case , rather than for the most frequent case . So that uh , now we have to worry about privacy ,\n",
      "Grad C: Well , no fre for the most {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: we have to worry about all these passwords , for different people\nGrad C: For the most frequent case they just say {pause} \" it 's OK \" and then they 're done . And I think {pause} almost everyone would rather do that by email than any other method .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: The other thing too is it seems like {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Um , yeah , that 's true .\nPostdoc F: Go ahead .\n",
      "Grad C: I mean , cuz you don't have to visit the web page if you don't want to .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: I guess {disfmarker} Yeah , I guess we don't need their signature . I guess an email OK is alright .\nGrad C: Oh that was another thing I {disfmarker} I had assumed that we didn't need their signature , that it {disfmarker} that an email approval was sufficient . But {pause} I don't actually know .\nPhD B: Are {disfmarker} are people going to be allowed to bleep out sections of a meeting where they weren't speaking ?\n",
      "Grad C: Yes . If someone feels strongly enough about it , then I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think they should be allowed to do that .\nPostdoc F: I also {disfmarker} mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So that means other people are editing what you say ?\nProfessor E: Uh {pause} I don't know about that .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPhD B: I don't know if I like that .\n",
      "Grad C: Well , the only other choice is that the person would say \" no , don't distribute this meeting at all \" , and I would rather they were able to edit out other people then just say \" don't distribute it at all \" .\nProfessor E: But th what they signed in the consent form , was something that said you can use my voice .\nGrad C: Well , but if {disfmarker} if someone is having a conversation , and you only bleep out one side of it , that 's not sufficient .\nProfessor E: Right ? Yeah . Yeah , but that 's our decision then . Right ?\n",
      "Grad C: Um , I don't think so . I mean , because if I object to the conversation .\nProfessor E: I think it is .\nGrad C: If I say \" we were having a conversation , and I consider that conversation private , \" and I consider that your side of it is enough for other people to infer , I wanna be able to bleep out your side .\n",
      "Postdoc F: The {disfmarker} I agree that the consent forms were {disfmarker} uh , I cons agree with what Adam 's saying , that {vocalsound} um , the consent form did leave open this possibility that they could edit things which they found offensive whe whether they said them or didn't say them .\nProfessor E: I see . OK , well , if that 's what it said .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And the other thing is from the standpoint of the l of the l I 'm not a law lawyer , but it strikes me that {vocalsound} uh , we wouldn't want someone to say \" oh yes , I was a little concerned about it but {vocalsound} it was too hard to access \" . So I think it 's kind of nice to have this facility to listen to it . Now {disfmarker} in terms of like editing it by hand , I mean I think it 's {disfmarker} i some people would find that easier to specify the bleep part by having a document they edited . But {disfmarker} but it seems to me that sometimes um , you know i if a person had a bad day , and they had a tone in their voice that they didn't really like , you know it 's nice {disfmarker} it 's nice to be able to listen to it and be sure that that was OK .\n",
      "Grad C: I mean I can certainly provide a printable version if people want it . Um .\nProfessor E: Um {pause} I mean it 's also a mixture of people , I mean some people are r do their work primarily by sitting at the computer , flipping around the web , and others do not .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor E: Others would consider it {disfmarker} this uh {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a set of skills that they would have to gain . You know ?\nGrad C: Well I think most of the people in the meetings are the former .\nProfessor E: It depends on what meetings .\n",
      "Postdoc F: That 's true .\nPhD B: So far .\nGrad C: So .\nProfessor E: In the meetings so far , yeah .\nGrad C: Yep .\nProfessor E: But we 're trying to expand this , right ?\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor E: So I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I actually think that paper is the more universal thing .\nGrad C: And that {disfmarker} Well , but if they want to print it out that 's alright .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad C: I think everyone in the meeting can access the web .\n",
      "Professor E: No , I think we have to be able to print it out . It 's not just if they want to print it out . I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}\nGrad C: OK , so does that mean that I can't use email ? Or what ?\nPostdoc F: Cuz you could send it through email you 're thinking .\nProfessor E: I {disfmarker} I th\nGrad C: Well , I don't think I {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: well {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} there was this {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: well I don't think we can send the text through email because of the privacy issues .\nProfessor E: No .\nPostdoc F: Good . For security ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , OK good .\nProfessor E: Right .\nGrad C: Um . So giving them , you think a web site to say , \" if you wanna print it out here it is \" , is not sufficient ?\nPostdoc F: Good point . \nPhD A: Yeah . I\nProfessor E: Certainly for everybody who 's been in the meetings so far it would be sufficient .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , I 'm just thinking for people that that 's not sufficient for , what {disfmarker} the only sufficient thing would be for me to walk up to them and hand it to them .\nProfessor E: I 'm just wondering about {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: You could mail it to them .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Get an a mailing address .\nGrad C: Equivalent .\nPhD A: But {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: But I think it 's easier to drop in the box .\n",
      "PhD A: Just put the button on {disfmarker} on the web page which say \" please send me the {disfmarker} the scripts \" .\nGrad C: That 's right .\nPostdoc F: Oh that 's interesting .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: What um {disfmarker} When you display it on the web page , what are {disfmarker} what are you showing them ? Utterances , or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And so can they bleep within an utterance ?\nGrad C: No . Whole utterances only .\n",
      "PhD B: Whole utterances .\nGrad C: And that was just convenience for my sake , that it 's uh , uh it would end up being fairly difficult to edit the transcripts if we would do it at the sub - utterance level . Because this way I can just delete an entire line out of a transcript file rather than have to do it by hand .\nProfessor E: There 's another aspect to this which maybe {disfmarker} is part of why this is bothering me . Um , I think you 're really trying very hard to make this as convenient as possible for people to do this .\nPhD B: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad C: I mean that 's why I did the web form , because for me that would be my most convenient .\nProfessor E: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I understand .\nPhD B: I know where you 're going .\nProfessor E: I think that 's the bad idea .\nGrad C: Oh .\n",
      "Professor E: See because you 're gon you 're {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Really . You 're gonna end up with all these little patchy things , whereas really what we want to do is have the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the bias towards letting it go . Because nob you know it {disfmarker} There was a {disfmarker} one or twi once or twice , in the re in the meetings we 've heard , where somebody said something that they might be embarrassed by , but overall people are talking about technical topics . Nobody 's gonna get hurt . Nobody 's being l libeled . You know , this is {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're covering {disfmarker} We 're playing the lawyer 's game , and we 're playing we 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're looking for the extreme case . If we really orient it towards that extreme case , make it really easy , we 're gonna end up encouraging a headache . That {disfmarker} I think that 's {disfmarker} I 'm sort of psyching myself out here , I {disfmarker} I 'm trying to {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: I guess I don't see having a few phrases here and there in a meeting being that mu much of a headache , bleeped out .\nProfessor E: but I {disfmarker} I think that 's {disfmarker} Well , it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: So .\nPhD B: I think what Morgan 's saying is the easier it is , the more is gonna be bleeped .\n",
      "Professor E: but i And {disfmarker} and it really depends on what kind of research you 're doing . I think some researchers who are gonna be working with this corpus years from now are really gonna be cursing the fact that there 's a bunch of stuff in there {comment} that 's missing from the dialogue .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: You know , it depends on the kind of research they 're doing ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: but it might be , uh {pause} it might be really a {disfmarker} a pain . And , you know where it 's really gonna hurt somebody , in some way {disfmarker} the one who said it or someone who is being spoken about , {comment} we definitely want to allow the option of it being bleeped out . But I really think we wanna make it the rare incidence . And {disfmarker} and uh , I am just a little worried about making it so easy for people to do , and so much fun ! {vocalsound} that they 're gonna go through and bleep out stuff .\n",
      "Postdoc F: So much fun .\nProfessor E: and they can bleep out stuff they don't like too , right from somebody else , as you say , you know , so \" well I didn't like what he said . \"\nGrad C: Well I don't see any way of avoiding that . I mean , we have to provi we have promised that we would provide them the transcript and that they can remove parts that they don't like . So that the {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah . No , no , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: The only question is {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: You - you 've talked me into that , but I {disfmarker} I just think that we should make it harder to do .\nGrad C: The problem is if it 's harder for them it 's also harder for me . Whereas this web interface , I just get email , it 's all formatted , it 's all ready to go and I can just insert it .\nProfessor E: So maybe you don't give them access to the web interface unless they really need it . So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well I guess {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor E: I 'm sorry {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} So maybe this is a s a way out of it .\nPostdoc F: Hmm .\nProfessor E: You 've provided something that 's useful for you to do {disfmarker} handle , and useful for someone else if they need it . But I think the issue of privacy and ease and so forth should be that uh , they get access to this if they really need it .\nGrad C: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: So you 're saying the {disfmarker} the sequence would be more like first Adam goes to the contact lists , contacts them via whatever their preferred method is , to see if they want to review the meeting .\nProfessor E: Right .\nPhD B: And then if they don't , you 're done . If they do , then he provides them access to the {disfmarker} the web site .\nGrad C: Well , to some extent I have to do that anyway because as I said we have to distribute passwords .\nProfessor E: W w\nPhD B: Or {disfmarker} a printed - out form .\n",
      "Professor E: There 's {disfmarker} there {disfmarker}\nGrad C: So ,\nProfessor E: y but you don't necessarily have to distribute passwords is what I 'm saying .\nGrad C: Well , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: So {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Only if they want it .\nGrad C: what I 'm saying is that I can't just email them the password because that 's not secure . So they have to call me and ask .\n",
      "Professor E: No , no , no . But you aren't necessarily giving them {disfmarker} Right . But {disfmarker} we don't even necessarily need to end up distributing passwords at all .\nPhD A: \nGrad C: Well , we do because of privacy . We can't just make it openly available on the web .\nProfessor E: No , no . You 're missing the point .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: We 're {disfmarker} We 're trying i We 're trying to make it less of an obvious just l l l l uh fall off a log , to do this .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Not everyone gets a password , unless they ask for it .\nProfessor E: Right ? So th so what I would see , is that first you contact them and ask them if they would like to review it for to check for the {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: not just for fun , OK ? but to {disfmarker} to check this for uh things that they 're worried about having said or if they 're willing to just send an approval of it , at {disfmarker} from their memory . Um {disfmarker} and , uh , and we should think carefully actually we should review {disfmarker} go through how that 's worded , OK ? Then , if someone uh {disfmarker} wants to review it , uh , and I know you don't like this , but I 'm offering this as a suggestion , is that {disfmarker} is that we then give them a print out . And then if they say that \" I have a potential problem with these things , \" then , you {disfmarker} you say \" OK well you might wanna hear this in context to s think if you need that , \" you issue them a password , i in the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: But the {disfmarker} the problem with what you 're suggesting is it 's not just inconvenient for them , it 's inconvenient for me . Because that means multiple contacts every time {disfmarker} for every single meeting every time anyone wants anything . I would much prefer to have all be automatic , they visit the web site if they want to . Obviously they don't have to .\nProfessor E: I know you 'd prefer it , but the proble\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: we have {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: So I think you 're thinking people are going to arbitrarily start bleeping and I just don't think that 's gonna happen .\nProfessor E: there 's a problem with it .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I 'm also concerned about the spirit of the {disfmarker} of the informed consent thing . Cuz I think if they feel that uh , it 's {disfmarker} I th I th You know , if it turns out that something gets published in this corpus that someone really should have eliminated and didn't detect , then it could have been because of their own negligence that they didn't pursue that next level and get the password and do that , um , but {disfmarker} but they might be able to argue \" oh well it was cumbersome , and I was busy and it was gonna take me too much time to trace it down \" . So it could that the burden would come back onto us . So I 'm a little bit worried about uh , making it harder for them , from the legal standpoint .\n",
      "Professor E: Well you can go too far in that direction , and you need to find somewhere between I think ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nGrad C: It seems to me that sending them email , saying \" if you have an O - OK reply to this email and say OK ,\nProfessor E: because {disfmarker} Uh - huh .\nGrad C: If you have a problem with it contact me and I 'll give you a password \" , seems like is a perfectly , reasonable compromise . And if they want a printout they can print it out themselves .\nPostdoc F: Or we could print it up for them ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I mean we could offer that {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but there 's uh , another aspect to that and that is that in the informed consent form , um , my impression is that they {disfmarker} that we offered them at the very least that they definitely would have access to the transcript . And {disfmarker} and I ha\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I don't know that there 's a chance of really skipping that stage . I mean I {disfmarker} I thought that you were {disfmarker} Maybe I misinterpreted what you said but it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Having access to it doesn't necessarily mean , that {disfmarker} having it\nGrad C: Having it .\nPostdoc F: Giving it to them .\nGrad C: Well the in {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: right ? It just means they have the right to have it .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nGrad C: the consent form is right in there if anyone wants to look at it ,\nPostdoc F: Alright . Fine . OK . Fair enough .\nGrad C: so .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: D you want me to grab one ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: Sh - sh well I could {disfmarker} I 'm closer .\nGrad C: Yeah , but you 're wired\nPostdoc F: I could {disfmarker}\nGrad C: aren't you ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah . That is true .\nProfessor E: Um . {vocalsound} Yeah , I mean I don't wanna fool them ,\nPostdoc F: I don't know {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: I just meant that e every {disfmarker} ev any time you say anything to anyone there is in fact a {disfmarker} a bias that is presented ,\n",
      "Postdoc F: Oh yeah yeah {disfmarker} oh I know .\nProfessor E: right ?\nGrad C: \" If you agree to participate you 'll have the opportunity to have anything ex anything excised , which you would prefer not to have included in the data set . \"\nProfessor E: of {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Yeah that 's true . Yeah .\nGrad C: \" Once a transcript is available we will ask your permission to include the data in the corpus for the r larger research community .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: There again you will be allowed to indicate any sections that you 'd prefer to have excised from the database , and they will m be removed both from the transcript and the recording . \"\nPostdoc F: Hmm . Well that 's more open than I realized .\nGrad C: Well , I mean it {disfmarker} The one question is definitely clear with anything as opposed to just what you said .\nProfessor E: I {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah , uh no that {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} tha\n",
      "Postdoc F: Tha - that 's true . That 's more severe , but the next one says the transcript will be around .\nProfessor E: that 's right .\nPostdoc F: And it doesn't {comment} really say we 'll send it to you , or wi it 'll be available for you on the web , or anything .\nPhD B: I think it probably leaves it open how we get it to them .\nProfessor E: I I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: At least it more often . Yeah . It means also we don't have to g To give it to them . I mean like {disfmarker} like Morgan was saying they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker}\nGrad C: They just have to make sure that it is available to them .\nPostdoc F: It 's available to them if they ask for it .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , OK , so . wh um {disfmarker} I think I have an idea that may be sat may satisfy both you and me in this which is , um , it 's a {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} we just go over carefully how these notes to people are worded . So I {disfmarker} I just want it to be worded in such a way where it gives the strong impre it gives very , I mean nothing hidden , v very strongly the bias that we would really like to use all of these data .\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: That {disfmarker} that we really would rather it wasn't a patchwork of things tossed out ,\nPostdoc F: Good .\nProfessor E: that it would be better for , um , our , uh , field if that is the case . But if you really think something is gonna {disfmarker} And I don't think there 's anything in the legal aspects that {disfmarker} that is hurt by our expressing that bias .\nPostdoc F: Great . Great , great .\nProfessor E: And then {disfmarker} then my concern about {disfmarker} which {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Yeah . I agree .\n",
      "Professor E: you know you might be right , it may be it was just paranoia on my part , uh but people just {disfmarker} See I 'm @ @ worried about this interface so much fun {vocalsound} that people start bleeping stuff out {comment} {vocalsound} just as {disfmarker} just because they can .\nGrad C: It 's just a check box next to the text , it 's not any fun at all .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Well I don't know . I kind of had fun when you played me something that was bleeped out . You know .\n",
      "Grad C: Well , but they won't get that feedback .\nProfessor E: I\nGrad C: All {disfmarker} no because it doesn't automatically bleep it at the time .\nProfessor E: Oh they won't ?\nGrad C: It just sends me {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Oh good . So you haven't made it so much fun .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor E: Oh good .\nGrad C: It just sends me the time intervals .\nProfessor E: OK ,\n",
      "Grad C: And then at some point I 'll incorporate them all and put bleeps . I mean I don't wanna have t ha do that yet until we actually release the data\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: because um , then we have to have two copies of every meeting and we 're already short on disk space .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: So I {disfmarker} I wanna {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} just keep the times until we actually wanna release the data and then we bleep it .\n",
      "Professor E: OK . Alright , so I think {disfmarker} Yeah so if we have if {disfmarker} i Again let 's you know , sort of circulate the {disfmarker} the wording on each of these things and get it right ,\nGrad C: Well since you seem to feel heart uh , strongest about it , would you like to do the first pass ?\nProfessor E: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} OK . Uh , fair enough . Turn about is fair play ,\n",
      "Postdoc F: Al - Also it ther there is this other question , the legal question that {disfmarker} that Adam 's raised , uh about whether we need a concrete signature , or email c i suffices or whatever\nProfessor E: Sorry .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: and I don't know how that works . i There 's something down there about \" if you agree to {disfmarker} \"\n",
      "Professor E: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I thought {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I thought about it with one of my background processes\nGrad C: I don't think so .\nProfessor E: and I {disfmarker} uh it 's {disfmarker} uh it 's uh , it 's fine to do the email .\nPostdoc F: Ah . Fine .\nGrad C: Yeah because thi th they 're signing here that they 're agreeing to the paragraph which says \" you 'll be given an opportunity . \"\nProfessor E: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Good . OK .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad C: And so I don't think they need another signature .\n",
      "Professor E: And {disfmarker} Well and furthermore I {disfmarker} it 's now fairly routine in a lot of arrangements that I do with people on contracts and so forth that {disfmarker} that uh if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's that sort of thing where you 're you 're saying uh \" OK I agree , we want eighty hours of this person at such - and - such amount , and I agree that 's OK , \" uh if it 's a follow up to some other agreement where there was a signature it 's often done in email now\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: so it 's {disfmarker} it 's OK .\nPostdoc F: Great .\nProfessor E: Um .\nGrad C: So I guess I probably should at the minimum , think about how to present it in a printed form . I 'm not really sure what 's best with that . The problem is a lot of them are really short ,\nPostdoc F: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad C: and so I don't necessarily wanna do one per line . But I don't know how else to do it .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well I s I also have this {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's nice you have it uh , viewab her {comment} hearable on the {disfmarker} on the web for those who might wonder about um , the non nonverbal side , I mean I {disfmarker} I agree that our bias should be as {disfmarker} as expressed here , and {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} I think it 's nice that a person could check . Cuz sometimes you know you {disfmarker} the words on a {disfmarker} on the page , come out soun sounding different in terms of the {pause} social dynamics if they hear it .\n",
      "Grad C: Hmm .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And I realize we shouldn't emphasize that people {comment} you know , shouldn't borrow trouble . What it comes down to but {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah I think actually {disfmarker} my opinion probably is that the only time someone will need to listen to it is if the transcript is uh not good . You know , if {disfmarker} if there are lots of mumbles and parentheses and things like that .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Oh , you know , or what if there was an error in the transcript that didn't get detected and there was a whole uh {disfmarker} i segment a against some {disfmarker} {vocalsound} personal {vocalsound} i th\nGrad C: Right . That was all mumbled ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad C: I think Microsoft is\nPostdoc F: Yeah exactly\nPhD A: Oh ,\nGrad C: Sorry transcribers .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Or {disfmarker} or even {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or even {comment} there was a {disfmarker} a line you know about how \" hmm - mmm - mmm {comment} Bill Gates duh - duh - duh - duh . \"\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: but {disfmarker} but it was all {disfmarker} the words were all visible , but they didn't end up i some there was a slip in the transcript .\nPhD A: Oh , God .\nGrad C: They 're gonna hate this meeting .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah that 's true .\nGrad C: Actually Liz will like it . You know , but .\nProfessor E: Liz will like it . We had a pretty strong disagreement going there .\nGrad C: Yep , yep , that 's right .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . So I don't know . I mean , I {disfmarker} I guess we 're assuming that the transcript is a close enough approximation and that {disfmarker} that my double checking will be {pause} so close to absolutely perfect that it {disfmarker} that nothing will slip by .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: But it {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} some something might sometime , and they {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if it 's something that they said , they might {disfmarker} i i I mean , you might be very accurate in putting down what they actually said ,\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: but , when they hear it , themselves , they may hear something different because they know what they meant .\nPostdoc F: I don't know how to notate that .\nPhD B: Sarcasm ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah , that 's right .\n",
      "PhD B: how do you {disfmarker} how do you indicate sarcasm ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah that 's right .\nProfessor E: No , I 'm serious . So {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} i the {disfmarker} so we might {disfmarker} we might get some feedback from people that such - and - such was , you know , not {disfmarker} not really what I said .\nGrad C: Yeah . Well that would be good to get , definitely .\nProfessor E: Yeah , but , Yeah , sure .\nGrad C: Just for corrections .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: So um , in terms of password distribution , I think phone is really the only way to do it , phone and in person . Or mail , physical mail .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Or if for leave it on their voice mail .\nPhD B: Any sub - word level thing . \nGrad C: Any sub - wor Yeah , OK . I mean you could do it with PGP or things like that but it 's too complex .\n",
      "Postdoc F: You know I just realized something , which is of {disfmarker} e th this question about the {disfmarker} uh the possible mismatch of {disfmarker} I mean i well , and actually also the lawyer saying that um , we shouldn't really have them {disfmarker} have the people believing that they will be cleared by our checks . You know ?\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I mean . So it 's like i in a way it 's {disfmarker} it 's nice to have the responsibility still on them to listen to the tape and {disfmarker} and hear the transcript , to have that be the {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Well yeah , but you can't dep I mean , most people will not wanna take the time to do that , though .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , OK , fair enough . And they 're s they 're absorbing the responsibility themselves .\nProfessor E: And they {disfmarker} they have to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: So it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not um {disfmarker} Yeah , good .\nProfessor E: But I mean if you were at a meeting , and {disfmarker} and you {disfmarker} you don't think , at least , that you said anything funny and the meeting was about , you know , some {disfmarker} some funny thing about semantics or something , or uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: You probably won't listen to it .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: It is true that tec that the content is technical , I {disfmarker} and so i and we 're not having these discussions which {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I {disfmarker} I mean , when I listen to these things , I don't find things that are questionable , in other people 's speech or in my own .\nProfessor E: Yeah . You would think it would be rare ,\nPostdoc F: Just {disfmarker} It should be very rare .\nProfessor E: I mean we 're not talking about the energy crisis or something , people have {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah . Yeah , OK .\nGrad C: How about them energy crises .\nProfessor E: Yeah . I think we 're uh {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Done ?\nProfessor E: Kind of done . Actually , I was gonna {disfmarker} Di - Did you have anything n that 's going on , or {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Not really . No . Um , {vocalsound} my project is going along but um , I 'm really just here to um fill the project uh {disfmarker} the overall progress . I don't really have anything specific to {disfmarker} to talk about .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . That 's fine . I just didn't wanna go by you , if you had something .\nGrad D: Oh , OK .\nProfessor E: You don't have anything to say .\nPhD B: No .\nProfessor E: Nah .\nGrad C:  \nProfessor E: Transcribers , he was rattling the b marbles in his brain back and forth just then this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Shall we do digits ?\nProfessor E: Oh yeah .\nGrad C: Um , oh by the way I did find a bunch {disfmarker}\nGrad D: It um\n",
      "Grad C: Uh , we should count out how many more digits to forms do we have back there ?\nPhD B: There were quite a few . Uh .\nGrad C: That 's what I thought . I f I was going through them all and I found actually a lot filed in with them , that were blanks , that no one had actually read .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nGrad C: And so we still have more than I thought we did .\nPhD B: Oh good .\nGrad C: So , we have a few more digits before we 're done .\nPhD B: You know having this headset reminds me of like working at Burger King or something .\n"
    ],
    "length": 17938,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 54,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was mainly about the Welsh baccalaureate. The committee began with the value of the baccalaureate. There have been young people who entered universities with a baccalaureate qualification. The goal of the committee was to further refine the qualification to balance it with other qualifications that had been recognized by universities and school leaders such as A-Levels. The grading system has been admitted to be rigorous. Students were expected to be evaluated on their individual ability. Although universities showed ambivalent attitudes towards the baccalaureate, its advantage could not be denied. The committee aimed to aid financially in the Welsh schools in organizing the baccalaureate and offering its corresponding courses of high quality.",
    "docs": [
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, please? No. Okay. Thank you. Item 2 this morning is our evidence session with the Cabinet Secretary for Education for our inquiry into the status of the Welsh baccalaureate qualification. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education; Kevin Palmer, who is deputy director, pedagogy, leadership and professional learning; and Andrew Clark, deputy director, further education and apprenticeships division. So, thank you all for attending, and we're looking forward to hearing what you've got to say. If you're happy, Cabinet Secretary, we'll go straight to questions.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Of course.\nLynne Neagle AM: And the first questions are from Julie Morgan.\nJulie Morgan AM: Thank you very much, Chair, and bore da. I was going to ask some general questions about the value of the baccalaureate. Could you give us your views on how the Welsh bac is valued by learners and teachers?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Bore da, Julie, and thank you very much for your question. Firstly, I'd like to begin by saying that I as the Cabinet Secretary value the qualification very much indeed. I believe that it helps ensure that we are able to give our young people in Wales a broad and balanced curriculum, recognising the need to develop knowledge and skills in core subjects but recognising also that the purpose of education is to help prepare our children for further study and the world of work, and I believe that the skills challenge element of the baccalaureate does just that. I meet with young people and teachers all the time who tell me about the positive experiences they have had studying for the Welsh bac, and much of that was evidenced in\u00a0Qualifications Wales's review into the Welsh baccalaureate. They did focus group work with a representative sample, and many of the learners expressed the fact that they have enjoyed studying for the qualification and have gained a great deal from it.\u00a0I meet regularly with individuals who have been able to use their bac to successfully gain a place at university, so I believe there's a huge value for Welsh young people being able to study this particular qualification alongside the more traditional qualifications that perhaps we're all used to. I think the challenge is that, given that many people are very familiar with what a GCSE is and, as parents, we will know what that is and many of us will have done\u2014some of us are so old we'll have done O-levels. We know what those traditional qualifications look like, and therefore a new qualification\u2014there's always a job of work to do to communicate that, if people aren't used to it, but I value it hugely. I think that, whilst there is always room for improvement\u2014and, of course, you'll be aware of the review that Qualifications Wales undertook and that has suggested ways in which we can further improve and refine the qualification, but I think it is a valuable piece of work for Welsh young people to undertake.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: It's great that you've been around listening to learners and what they have said about it. Have you had any negative feedback?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, occasionally, of course, we do have concerns raised with us, and those concerns are similar to the ones that have been raised in the Qualifications Wales review. So, for instance, we sometimes have concerns about how some students balance the Welsh bac with other qualifications they may be taking. Some teachers feed back around the workload issues associated with the Welsh baccalaureate. For some students, there may be concerns about the nature of the Welsh bac and whether that can impact negatively on their well-being. And, obviously, that's why Qualifications Wales have undertaken this piece of work so that we can refine, if necessary, that qualification and how we continue to look at how we ensure my belief that taking the Welsh bac should be the norm for students but also recognising that, in some cases, there needs to be flexibility to ensure that the well-being of the student is not compromised.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: And so would you say that it's valued by learners more or less at key stage 4 or post 16?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I think that, as I said, the vast majority of students I meet report very positively about the opportunities that are afforded for studying at that level. Occasionally, we hear from students who I believe think that in studying the subject they may be compromising their chances because they want to do additional A-levels, and I'm sure we'll come on to, later on, whether universities, and whether the Russell Group universities in particular, value the qualification. But I feel that there are particular strengths. And I think what's really important, and, in talking to universities, since the qualification became graded, rather than just a pass/fail qualification\u2014I think that added rigour since 2015 has been particularly important in ensuring that there's real value in students undertaking that work.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: And what about the effect that the leadership in the school has on the way that the bac\u00a0is received? Have you\u2014?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: As always, Julie, leadership is crucial, and students' experiences can be very coloured by the attitude towards the teacher delivering that particular course. And, therefore, we need to continue, alongside the WJEC\u00a0and Qualifications\u00a0Wales, to ensure that the Welsh bac\u00a0is communicated to children in a positive way, the benefits are explained to children and their parents, and, also, we need to ensure that those who are tasked with teaching Welsh bac in their schools or colleges feel confident in their ability to do so and to ensure that students have a really positive experience of that qualification, because if you're being taught by someone who is telling you,\u00a0'Oh, I don't know why we're having to do this', then, obviously that's going to colour how you feel about it. And, if I'm honest, I recently attended a youth forum, where young people from the county were discussing all sorts of issues\u2014everything from the environment to their experience in school\u2014and I was struck by the group of year 12 and year 13 students. I specifically asked them about the bac\u2014I always take the opportunity to ask them about their experience of the baccalaureate. One school, the group of students said, 'It's fantastic. We really enjoy it. It's really valuable. I'm learning a lot.' Students from a school seven miles away\u2014just seven miles away\u2014said, 'Oh, I don't know why we're having to do this.' And I suspect that that has got more to do with how that is being delivered in their institutions than it has about the quality of the qualification. So, we need to keep ensuring that those who are tasked with this see it as\u00a0important, communicate that to students, and have the confidence and the ability to deliver a really positive experience.\n",
      "Julie Morgan AM: I think our experiences in the committee are very similar. Within the same room, actually, we've had two completely different sets of views. So, what do you intend to do to try to ensure that there's consistent support and enthusiasm for the bac\u00a0from the leaders?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, first of all, we have the design group of Qualifications Wales looking to address some of the issues that arose out of the report around ensuring that, especially from a teacher workload perspective, it's not too onerous in terms of assessment. So, there's that to do to make sure that we're not asking children to duplicate and do things over and over and over again, which, of course, for any of us, would be wearing and we would question to the value of. So, there's the design group looking at the qualification itself. We are ensuring, as part of our professional learning for teachers that\u2014. There are existing opportunities via the regional consortia for support for teaching of the qualification. The WJEC has resources and support available, but we will look, as we roll out our national approach to professional learning, at that the professional learning needs of those already in the system are addressed. Of course, our accreditation for our new initial teacher education is predominantly addressed at being able to deliver the new curriculum, but, if you think about the elements of 'Successful Futures' and the skills and the knowledge and the pedagogy associated with that, it's very much in line with the Welsh baccalaureate challenge certificate. So, actually, there are opportunities via initial teacher education as well, and we continue to need to look to work with our partners to be able to reinforce why this is a worthwhile qualification. And I have to say I think the best people to do that\u2014. It's not me. I'd like to see past students of the Welsh baccalaureate being able to talk about their own experiences and why it's made a difference to them. I come across individuals for whom their place at university has been secured by that Welsh baccalaureate, and, all of a sudden, if that's what's got you your place, it becomes a lot more valuable than perhaps it was six months before. We need to make sure that students are aware, and teachers and school leaders are aware,\u00a0of the importance that this qualification\u00a0has.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, did you have a supplementary?\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Yes. I've got one on IT, but I'll leave that one. I just want to go back to Julie's question about whether there was a different perspective or a different sense of value for students who are post 16 and those who are pre 16. When one of the college leaders here was asked whether he had people coming to him in his FE college who've been through the pre-16 bac and had heard evidence or had stories of, basically, those children cobbling together their bac in the last four weeks of term before they got there, he said that yes, that is his experience. Does that worry you at all, because, of course, the whole purpose of bac is to teach skills over a period of time, and its purpose cannot be fulfilled by getting it all done in the last term of\u2014which year am I in?\u2014year 11, in order to satisfy the curriculum?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Yes. Obviously, that's not the experience that we would want young people to have, and, as someone who has had a daughter just finish\u00a0year 11, that's certainly not the experience that my daughter had in her particular school, and I have another daughter who has just gone into year 10, where the Welsh bac\u00a0has started in year 10 and it is a a two-year course in which elements are undertaken. Obviously, we will need to address, as part of the design group and the work that Qualifications Wales is doing, how that is playing out in individual schools. But that would not be a positive experience; we want this to be taken in exactly the same way as we would expect a GCSE to be taught over a period of two years. But, Andrew, I don't know if there's anything you'd like to add from the college perspective.\n",
      "Andrew Clark: I think it is variable. I think that it will depend on the feeder schools to the colleges and it'll depend upon the delivery models that are in existence in those schools. It's been around as a qualification now for about a decade, I think. There have been differences in the way that the subject has been\u2014sorry, not the subject, the qualification has been delivered. And I think it'll be helped by a recent review by Qualifications Wales, because they're doing a survey at the moment as to different delivery models in different locations, and that, perhaps, will inform more even practice as we move forwards.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Yes, and Estyn and consortia are looking at it as well. I don't want to cut across questions, so, thank you.\nAndrew Clark: No, but it's a known issue, if you like, that various people are attempting to address and bring a more uniform mode of delivery across the nation.\nSuzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you.\nLynne Neagle AM: We've got some more detailed questions now on understanding, from Si\u00e2n Gwenllian.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Just to drill down rather deeper into the issue of the variability in the way in which the Welsh\u00a0bac is provided, could you explain why you think that this inconsistency is happening, and then what the impact of the inconsistency and variability is on the value that learners attach to the bac\u00a0and their understanding of it?\nKirsty Williams AM: I think the variability can be perhaps explained by the fact that it's a new type of qualification, the fact that different schools have adopted it at different rates\u2014\nSian Gwenllian AM: Ten years?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said, over that time, there were some early adopters who have done it in a certain way, there are some people who've come later to it, who may be doing it in a different way. And, as I said, it's quite a different departure from traditional O-levels, from GCSE-type subjects, where there is a programme of work and a syllabus. So, it is a different nature of qualification, and, therefore, as Andrew has just alluded to, schools have approached it in a different way.\u00a0We are alert to that and Qualifications Wales, crucially, is alert to that, and we are looking to ensure greater consistency in how it is delivered in individual schools. We're also aware, in the school setting, in pre 16, there are some concerns about the onerousness of the workload associated with the evaluation of the students' work. Now, clearly, there is a difference between onerous and rigorous. We wrote the qualification to be a rigorous qualification for the students, but we don't want it to be jeopardised by the evaluation of it being too onerous. So, there's that balance to be struck. Again, that's one of the issues that the design group and Qualifications Wales are looking at.\u00a0That process is a really important process, so there is the design group, but working alongside the design group, who they are testing the messages and testing their thoughts with, is a stakeholder group, and\u00a0there is also a practitioners group. So, that work by the design group is being tested with those people who have an interest: business, for instance, the world of work\u2014is this qualification really giving students the skills that are valued by potential employers?\u2014but it's also testing its thinking with the practitioners, those people who will be charged with the delivery of the qualification, and I think that's really important to be able to get an understanding of the challenges of making sure there's a consistency, and what are the barriers to that, and what steps need to be taken to ensure a greater level of consistency in delivery.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Is there a correlation between consistency in general? Because we know that there's polarisation in the secondary school sector between the good schools and the not-so-good schools. And is there a correlation between\u2014if the schools are good according to Estyn, or excellent, are they also good, excellent at delivering the bac? Is it a fundamental inconsistency across the sector that's causing this inconsistency?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: I don't know. I don't have that data to hand, but, of course, from next year, the bac will be a dedicated performance measure for schools. So, actually, we will be looking specifically at completion of the bac as part of the wider set of school performance measures. So perhaps we will be in a better position once that's formally established to be able to track progress.\nSian Gwenllian AM: Because some of the evidence we've heard is that if the leadership is good around the bac in the school, well, everything else follows from that. So, it makes sense to me that it could be.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Absolutely. As I said, I don't have the figures to hand, but, as I said, from next year, the bac actually becomes a formal part of the performance measures for schools.\nSian Gwenllian AM: Fine. I'll turn, therefore, to the understanding of employers of the Welsh bac and the skills challenge certificate. From the evidence that we've had, it appears that there is a problem in this area, that is, employers generally don't value the qualification. Is that your experience, and how can we improve that? How can we elicit more engagement from employers of all sizes with the value of the baccalaureate?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, the first thing to say is my understanding of the development of the bac is that employers' voices were reflected and they were part of the process that drew up the qualification in the first place. You'll be aware of the review by Qualifications Wales that found that many employers say that the skills that are developed through the baccalaureate are exactly the kinds of skills that they want young people to be acquiring whilst at school, that put them in a good place for looking for employment later. I would agree with you, Si\u00e2n, and not just in terms of the bac, there are lots of reasons why we need greater working between education and employers. I sit down with employer organisations to try and explore better ways in which we can work together\u2014everything from ensuring that children have work experience opportunities through to, for instance, what more some of our companies could do to take up governors' roles, for instance, in our local schools, so that employer voice and that business voice are heard at a school management level. I think these things are really important. It's something that's sometimes difficult. There are some excellent examples of really good practice where local employers work really closely with schools. I think of Sony in Bridgend doing a really, really, really good job working with their local schools. In other areas, where you haven't got such a big employer, it can be difficult, can't it, for a small business that is trying to do their small business to think about, 'Oh my goodness, I've got to do something to help improve the education system as well.'\u00a0So, I'm always looking at new ways in which we can get that working together. As I said, the Qualifications Wales design group has a stakeholder group that is helping them with their review into the qualification at the moment, but there are really good examples where employers and other organisations are working together. We also need to continue, I think, to communicate more clearly with employers the nature of the qualification. Again, because it's relatively new, and the brands of the GCSE and A-level are so strong, people know what they are, unless you've either done the Welsh bac yourself or you have a son or a daughter, or a grandson or granddaughter who has gone through the process, you're probably going to be less familiar, and we need to continue to work together with the WJEC and Qualifications Wales as a Government to better communicate the value of the qualification.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: So, you agree that there is a specific piece of work that needs to be done around employers and that the Government should be leading that.\nKirsty Williams AM: Yes, and we are working closely with, as I said, Qualifications Wales to develop a joint communication plan, and we continue, as I said, as part of Qualifications Wales's review into the nature of the qualification\u2014employers' voices are being heard as part of that particular piece of work. But more generally, yes, I think there's more that we can do to better engage employers with the education system in lots and lots of different ways.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Okay. Thank you.\nKirsty Williams AM: Not just on the Welsh bac.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move off this section, the variability that the committee has seen has been quite pronounced, really. We've been to a school where they've got a passionate and dedicated Welsh bac\u00a0school leader, but then we've spoken to other schools where it's tagged on to a variety of teachers' roles, and that clearly has an impact on the way it's being taught. You said in your answer to Si\u00e2n that you're trying to ensure more consistency in the delivery of it, and you referred to the performance measures; are the performance measures the main vehicle by which you're going to ensure consistency, or are you planning to issue any more guidance to schools on how it should be delivered on the ground?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: We will need to reflect the work that Qualifications Wales is undertaking. Professional learning, I think, has a role to play as well as performance measures. So it's not just one thing that we can do that will change this, it is a number of things\u2014everything from the communications plan to making sure that teachers who find themselves responsible for delivering this feel confident and have had the professional learning opportunities to give them the skills so that they do a great job in delivering a positive experience to students. The performance measures, of course, as we know\u2014sometimes in schools, it is those that make schools focus on something. So there's a wide variety of ways in which I think we can look to ensure more consistency. But, in the end, I think it is professional learning and teacher training, ITE, that will make the biggest difference.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. And just on understanding, one of the things the young people in Crickhowell told us was that they thought the name should be changed. They felt that it wasn't reflective of exactly what the qualification is and that maybe having something that was clearer would be better. Is that something you've considered?\nKirsty Williams AM: Well, first of all, I need to declare an interest, because that's the school my daughter goes to, and I don't know if she was the one\u2014\nLynne Neagle AM: She wasn't. Angharad wasn't there.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: She wasn't the one who said that. Certainly, I'd have to reflect. My gut instinct tells me that one of the issues that we have is developing an understanding of the brand and what that qualification is, and if we move away from 'Welsh\u00a0bac' and suddenly start to call it something else, I think that could be even harder and set us back from where we are. So, that's not to dismiss it, and I would want to reflect on those views, but I think if one of the issues that we've got is developing a better understanding of the qualification; if we were to suddenly change the name of it, that might have the unintended consequence of making that job even harder. But, obviously, if the committee was to make a recommendation, we would\u2014I'm happy to reflect on that evidence, but, as I said, my gut instinct would tell me that there could be an unintended consequence of moving away from that brand.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. The next questions are from Dawn Bowden.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You touched on this once or twice in answers to questions about how rigorous the qualification is. We've had mixed evidence, I would suggest, from groups of stakeholders. We've heard people say that the Welsh bac\u00a0has no rigour, that pupils are spoon-fed. We've heard that the Welsh bac\u00a0is passively marked, the grades are inflated, that there's little rigour\u00a0in the sampling and moderation, there's a confusion about how the SCC is graded, and I know that's something you talked about, actually, that introducing the grading system is improving the rigour. I suppose my question to you is: if the Welsh bac\u00a0is being seen in this way by stakeholders, how are going to address that? To what extent is that a real problem?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: I think making it a graded qualification has been really important,\u00a0and I make no apologies for this qualification being rigorous\u2014no apologies for that at all. That's how it should be, and that's how you create value, by ensuring that a qualification is rigorous. What's really important is that it's not just me saying that it's rigorous; there is an independent process that benchmarks qualifications. The fact is that at advanced level\u2014because I don't know if you're making these observations about the pre-16 Welsh bac, or whether we're talking about the advanced level qualification\u2014that is the equivalent of an A-level. It's been benchmarked against A-levels. It has a UCAS tariff associated with it. It is used by universities as a means of qualification that gains entrance into a university in just the same way as an A-level is. So, therefore, I don't have any concerns about the rigour of the qualification. In terms of spoon-feeding, one of the reasons why universities like the qualification is that it's very difficult, for instance, in the individual project work to be spoon-fed. It is very demanding of individual students, and it's very difficult in a way. That's one of the reasons why it's valuable, isn't it, because it teaches a different set of skills? Because if you're doing a traditional, say, history A-level or a science A-level, there's a very strict syllabus and a course, there's a textbook and people are taught to that particular syllabus; with the Welsh bac, it is individual students that have to think, for instance, of their own individual project. You can't get those off a shelf, and you can't necessarily just find that information easily. There's real skill involved in being able to do that well and get graded well for that. So, I do not have concerns about the rigour. I do have concerns about some of the feedback by Qualifications Wales about the onerousness of the evaluation and what that means for teacher workload, which is one of the things that Qualifications Wales is looking at. But in terms of rigour and people being spoon-fed, then I don't share those concerns.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, because those were concerns, in the main, that were articulated by people delivering the Welsh bac\u2014by teachers. So, I suppose the question then comes back to some of the other points that were being raised about the consistency, because that may well be from those teachers in schools where they're not taking the bac as seriously as some others are.\nKirsty Williams AM: And, of course, there would be\u2014. There is a professional responsibility for those teachers delivering that qualification to ensure that the ethos of that qualification and the skills\u2014. It would potentially be a disservice to students if that qualification was being delivered in that way.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: And I think what I was trying to do was to highlight the different opinions, because we also heard from teachers who were saying that those involved with teaching and studying understood absolutely its rigour, so it was the mixed message, I guess, I was just trying to test out with you. Similarly, on the skills challenge certificate, again we've heard from various stakeholders about whether, in fact, this is considered to be an equivalent qualification. We've heard people say that it is different\u2014it's not the same as an A-level\u2014so, therefore you can't absolutely hold it up and say it's the same as an A-level. It requires different skills, and so on and so forth. So, just your thoughts and views on that, really, as an equivalent qualification.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: It's not a question of if this is an equivalent qualification; this is an equivalent qualification. There is a rigorous process that is undertaken to evaluate these qualifications independent of the Government, and it's not a question. Is it a different model and a different way of studying? Yes, of course it is, and that's why we do it. That's why I want children and young people to do both sets of qualifications, because it does engage and expand the acquisition of knowledge and skills. So, yes, it's different. Is it equivalent? Yes, it is, and that's why, since the graded qualification came in, it is regarded by independent bodies as an equivalent to an A-level, and it has a tariff for UCAS in the same way as A-levels would have tariffs. You only have to speak to the institutes of higher education who use this qualification as a way\u00a0of setting grades\u2014you know, offers\u2014for students that they see that in the same way as well.\n",
      "Dawn Bowden AM: Okay.\nLynne Neagle AM: Suzy's got a supplementary before we go on to talk in detail about universities.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Is that okay? Because I just want to go back to this element of spoon-feeding at post 16, where you said it's actually very difficult for that to occur, because, obviously, we're talking about the personal project, and so forth. We heard evidence in one of the schools sessions we did that baccalaureate students were being offered a very short and narrow list of subjects on which they could do their personal project, which actually limited the scope of what they were able to do. And we've also heard separately\u2014it may have been with the colleges, I can't quite remember now\u2014that some students were being told, 'On your personal project, just put in what you did for your GCSE-level baccalaureate, and add a few paragraphs.' I'm wondering how easy it is to disguise spoon-feeding at post 16 when we've got two instances there that, to me, suggest it's more about the convenience of the teachers, who perhaps may not be very enthusiastic about the bac, rather than making sure those children get the best out of the qualification.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Yes. And that would be really disappointing. And, again, if I can use my own personal family experience, my daughter has tried that on with her Welsh bac teacher. She's in a different school from where she did her earlier bac, and she said, 'Oh, well, I'll just rehash my \"Votes at 16\" that I did last year', and the Welsh bac teacher has said, 'Under no circumstances are you to do that\u2014no, that's not allowed.'\u00a0This is about using your individual project, linked to something that maybe you hope to study at university, to get the value out of this qualification, and for you to be able to use this in your personal statement, and potentially in an interview. So, again, I guess what this does is show that there's a variation, but certainly, where it is being delivered well, then that practice would not be encouraged, because it would be seen to be\u2014\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: It's gaming.\nKirsty Williams AM: \u2014denuding the students of the very valuable experience the qualification has to offer.\nSuzy Davies AM: Okay. Thank you. Cheers.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay. We've got some questions now on how universities view it. Hefin David.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: We've had an online survey response, which was quite a stark comment, not from the vice-chancellor's office, but from a member of staff within Cardiff University. And it said: 'The Welsh Bacc is not a fair substitute for a full A-level, and should not be regarded as such. I consider it to be a disadvantage for Welsh students, compared with their English counterparts.' Can you reflect on that?\nKirsty Williams AM: I don't agree.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Do you think that that's a view that's held within universities, and are you concerned about that? Because it is a view that's obviously held within Cardiff University.\nKirsty Williams AM: No; I would say that that is a view held by an individual in Cardiff University\u2014\nHefin David AM: Who has influence over students.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, that is a view held by an individual in Cardiff University. And, actually, Cardiff University\u2014indeed, all Welsh universities\u2014accept the Welsh baccalaureate as an A-level equivalent. I think it is really important to reflect on the wide range of opportunities at higher education that the Welsh bac affords individuals. That means that it is deemed as an equivalent to A-level for the vast majority of universities, to get in to some of the most competitive courses, such as dentistry, medicine, veterinary science. So, those courses where we know there's a high demand and high competition for places, there are institutions that are using that, including Cardiff to get into their medical degree.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Nick Brazil, the deputy principal of Gower College, said about 50 per cent of the Russell Group don't value the Welsh bac.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I don't know where he's getting that from. I have made it a personal commitment to establish this with universities. I have visited both Cambridge and Oxford. I spoke again to Cambridge, Oxford, Bath, Southampton, St Andrews, only last week, who were exhibiting at the Seren conference. I specifically took the opportunity to meet with those universities and to talk to them about how they feel about the Welsh bac. They have a high regard for the Welsh baccalaureate in a variety of ways. First of all, for many of those universities, for many of their courses, they use the Welsh bac as an equivalent to an A-level. If they don't, there are some courses, for instance, where they will lower their offer to gain a place at that university if the Welsh bac is passed at a certain level. So, for instance, rather than maybe offering a Welsh student A, A, B, they would offer a Welsh student A, B, B, plus a Welsh bac, thus giving students two opportunities to gain a place at that university, either with or without their Welsh bac qualification. Even for those universities\u00a0that don't use the Welsh baccalaureate as a formal part of their offer\u2014and this is the conversation I had again last week with Oxford and Cambridge\u2014they value it as part of a student's personal statement; they value it as part of the interview process in which a student may or may not then be offered a place at that university; and they also recognise that the skills learnt by students whilst undertaking the Welsh baccalaureate are exactly the skills that those students\u00a0need to make a successful transition from A-level work to university-type work, which, if you can imagine, is very much based on individual research and being able to guide your own learning. So, I just don't recognise that in some way Welsh students are being disadvantaged. The message I get consistently from universities\u00a0is that there are significant advantages to Welsh learners taking this qualification.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. You can not recognise\u00a0it, but that is contrary to the evidence that we've received. I'm not saying that the\u00a0evidence is conclusive, but it actually demonstrates inconsistency. So, would you go so far as to accept instead then that there is an inconsistency in the way that universities\u00a0use the Welsh bac as a tool for application?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: You would know better than anybody, Hefin, that universities are autonomous institutions and they set their own methods of entry into those institutions. What I'm telling you is that the evidence that I have received from universities is that, whilst there is a variety of approaches to how they regard the qualification in terms of offers, consistently, absolutely across the board, all universities tell me that the Welsh baccalaureate is a valuable qualification and does not disadvantage Welsh\u00a0students.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: If the committee were to produce a report based on the evidence we've received, that would be contrary to what you've just said. So, I think we'd end up in a debate in which we are setting out different points of view. So, would you therefore commit to exploring that perspective?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Hefin, I would argue that I have indeed explored that perspective because I have taken the trouble to find out first-hand\u2014not via my officials, but first-hand\u2014from those institutions, their views. So, this is not something that is hearsay; I have undertaken to ascertain the views of those universities. We have written to all vice-chancellors\u2014last year\u2014with regard to the Welsh baccalaureate qualification. Qualifications Wales has an individual whose specific job it is to ensure that universities across the United Kingdom understand the value of Welsh qualifications. That will become increasingly important as we see a divergence between English and Welsh qualifications. But I have to say that the evidence that I have from universities is that the Welsh baccalaureate, whilst it may be used in different ways in terms of an offer, the consistency from all universities is that it is a valuable qualification. If you've heard differently from admissions tutors and from the universities officially, rather than from somebody who has e-mailed in, then I would be pleased to look at that evidence, because it would be in stark contrast to what I am being told by universities.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin\u00a0is not referring to an e-mail\u2014\nHefin David AM: No, I've said that.\nLynne Neagle AM: \u2014we did do a survey and we've also taken oral evidence.\nHefin David AM: Yes, and it's representing the evidence that we received.\nKirsty Williams AM: And I'm presenting you with the evidence that I've received.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: But it will be presented to you as a submission from this committee, no doubt. Let's look at some admissions offers instead then. You do concede that there is inconsistency with how admissions offers are made with regard to the skills challenge certificate. How would you suggest that that is addressed?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Hefin, each individual\u00a0institution\u00a0and university the length and breadth of the UK have different ways in which they make offers to individuals. What is absolutely clear to me, and if the concern is around the type of institution\u2014. So, for instance, it is accepted as a third-grade offer in Bristol, Edinburgh, Exeter, Lancaster, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, the London School of Economics\u2014some of the highest performing universities and Russell\u00a0Group universities. It is accepted as a fourth qualification or amends the offer in places like Bath University, and it is accepted in tariff-point offers in places like Hull and the University of the West of England. So there is a variety of ways in which universities use the qualification, and that is their prerogative\u2014that's their prerogative as institutions.\u00a0They will have different ways in which they recruit and how they offer places, just like different universities will have different views on unconditional offers. You know, there's a difference in universities there, isn't there? Some universities don't have unconditional offers at all; other universities\u2014\n",
      "Hefin David AM: So, what you're saying is that the problem isn't connected to the Welsh bac, it's connected with just the way that universities make offers, and the Welsh bac\u00a0has got nothing to do with it.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: I\u2019m saying there is a variety. Just like any other qualification, there is a variety in how universities use qualifications for offers. What I\u2019m saying to you is that, in the conversations that I have had with Russell Group universities, what they say is that there is certainly no detriment to any Welsh student\u00a0undertaking this qualification. They value the qualification. They think it is useful. It develops a set of skills that help students to make that transition into higher education. And therefore, I think it is a myth\u2014I would go as far as to say that it\u2019s a myth\u2014that Welsh students are disadvantaged in any way by taking this qualification. Sorry, Andrew.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay.\nAndrew Clark: Could I just add to that response? There are, obviously, differences in the way that universities treat the skills challenge certificate and the Welsh baccalaureate, which is the prime focus of this. The attitude of the universities has changed significantly since that was a graded qualification.\nKirsty Williams AM: Yes, that has made a difference.\n",
      "Andrew Clark: And even those who do not make it part of their offer consider it exceedingly valuable in the way that young people are prepared to go to university and, therefore, as part of their personal statement, as part of their interview, the activity that the young person has taken by means of the skills challenge certificate is definitely recognised, even by those who don\u2019t actually make it part of their offer. So, we\u2019re still on a journey\u2014that graded qualification\u00a0has only been taught for a couple of years, but the journey is taking us to the right place, towards the right destination.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. So, it isn\u2019t just about variable admissions practices across universities; it is to deal with the skills challenge certificate as well, which needed changing in order to improve that.\nAndrew Clark: But that was changed in September 2015. When it was a 'yes'/'no' qualification, I think they held it in less regard than they do now that it is a graded qualification.\nKirsty Williams AM: And that\u2019s\u00a0the conversation we had with some of our Russell Group universities.\nAndrew Clark: And that was an important shift three years ago.\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Okay. So, last question, then: are you absolutely confident that any concerns we are offering are nothing really to worry about?\nKirsty Williams AM: We will need to continue to communicate to all audiences the importance of this and the value of this qualification. But I am confident that the university sector, in its wide variety of forms, regards the Welsh baccalaureate qualification as a valuable endeavour for Welsh students to undertake, and they certainly don\u2019t regard it as a detriment to students.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay. Si\u00e2n wants to come in on this, and then I've got a question from Suzy on Seren.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, just that the committee, of course, has been trying to gain evidence on this sector from the universities themselves, but Universities Wales, which represents the interests of universities in Wales, has rejected the committee's invitation to submit any oral or written evidence. So, can you see the dilemma we're in? We are hearing a few things coming from some universities, we hear what you're saying, but we can't get to the root of the matter because the universities themselves aren't willing to come to speak to us. Are you also disappointed that they have rejected our invitation to come and speak to us?\n",
      "Hefin David AM: Where's the enthusiasm, Chair? Where's the enthusiasm?\nSian Gwenllian AM: And perhaps that's a sign that they don't want to be drawn into this argument between the Government and us as a committee.\nKirsty Williams AM: Well, it\u2019s a matter for individual universities to decide whether they want to participate in the work of this committee. I would urge them to do so. All Welsh universities regard the Welsh baccalaureate as an equivalent to A-level, and all universities use it as part of their offer\u2014Welsh universities.\n",
      "Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, but you see what our dilemma is, though, because if we can\u2019t actually ask them directly,\u00a0it's a bit\u00a0difficult for us to actually probe this and to help move things on? Anyway, I'll leave it at that. Thank you.\nKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's a matter for them, and maybe the Chair would like to take that up with Universities Wales.\nLynne Neagle AM: We have had quite an extensive dialogue with them about it. Suzy on Seren.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: So, just briefly, you\u2019ve said several times that having a Welsh bac qualification is an advantage and certainly no detriment, and that it\u2019s valued by universities. But advantage isn't\u00a0the same\u00a0as equivalence, and we have had evidence from\u2014I think it was Cardiff University, again, where they had students with two A-levels and a bac who were actually performing as weaker students. So, even though on the face of it you've got three A-levels, those particular students aren't matching up to the expectations of a student with three A-levels. I do want to challenge what you said about the students who are involved in the Seren network about the baccalaureate being accepted for things like veterinary medicine and medicine itself. We've had evidence from FE colleges, which are now significant players in producing our Seren-style students, if you like, that they are exempting their students from doing the bac\u00a0because it's a distraction, effectively. What's your comment on that? Because if this is a question of communication, which I suspect you're about to tell me, one of the axioms of good communication is you can have the best marketing in the world, but if the product you're selling isn't highly valued then you're actually just doubling the problem. So, can you explain to me why FE is exempting their highest flyers from doing the bac?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: I think sometimes colleges make the decision that four or five A-levels is of an advantage, and therefore, if you're asking students to carry that workload, which is a considerable workload, that's the preferred route for more able and talented students. Again, what is quite clear in all the conversations that I have had with Russell Group universities, including Oxford and Cambridge, is that this is a myth. What universities tell me they want is not necessarily students with four or five A-levels; they want students with three really exceptional grades at A-level and a Welsh baccalaureate. I think that's really, really an important message to get across\u2014that it is not necessary to do four or five A-levels if you aspire to go to these Russell Group universities, or if you decide you want to apply to Oxford and Cambridge. As I said, in the conversations that we have had\u2014and there is actually some research, and I will let the committee have links to the research. There is some research to suggest that those students who have been involved in project-based work\u2014and, of course, that's not just the Welsh baccalaureate, that would be the EPQ, which is a qualification that is rapidly gaining traction in England. That is an extended project\u2014research based\u2014qualification, very similar to the individual project element of the Welsh baccalaureate. The EPQ\u00a0in England is seen as a qualification taken by more able and talented students, and what we see in some of the research that is coming forward is that those students who have engaged in that type of work, project-based work, individual-led, research-based work\u2014those skills are the skills that are really attuned to the nature of university-type work. Therefore, that is valued by universities and there is some indication to say that there is a correlation between the students who have undertaken that work and their potential success at undergraduate level. They also tell me that there is a link between, for instance, being able then to use those skills to gain work experience, placements and internships in the private sector and in the world of work, because, as I said, those types of skills are really, really valuable and therefore that's why they value the qualification.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Can I just add\u2014? It's great that they're telling you, why aren't they telling FE?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said, I think it's really important that FE colleges understand that there is a myth around the fact that these universities are looking for four or five A-levels, and if that's the reason why then colleges are not allowing students or dissuading students from taking the Welsh bac, I think we need to reflect on what's important to those universities\u2014which is the right A-levels. I think it's really, really important that students are given the best advice about the A-levels they need to take, facilitating subjects to get into a university, and the value of the skills and knowledge they will acquire through the Welsh bac\u00a0as an assistance to them going forward.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay, thanks. Thank you, Chair.\nLynne Neagle AM: Actually, it's your set of questions next on universal adoption.\nSuzy Davies AM: I'll try and keep this on the shorter side, if that's okay, everybody. You say in your evidence that you expect universal\u00a0adoption, basically, by 2020, I think it is, or it might be 2019. What do you think universal adoption actually means? What does it look like? Does it mean 100 per cent adoption?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: What is means is that I expect all institutions to be in a position to deliver the Welsh baccalaureate. I believe it should be an entitlement to all Welsh students to be able to study this qualification, and I believe we should work to the situation where it becomes the norm to take the Welsh baccalaureate. I also recognise that in some individual cases, there may be very good reasons why perhaps this is not aligned to the well-being of that particular student. But when I talk about universal adoption, I expect all our institutions to be in a position to deliver the qualification, and I believe it should be an entitlement for Welsh students\u00a0to be able to undertake this qualification.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: But not an obligation\u2014that's the bit I'm trying to get at.\nKirsty Williams AM: I think it should\u00a0become the norm, and if there are exceptions to that, and there could well be for very legitimate reasons, I think that that flexibility should be allowed. But I think, for those students who are not doing that Welsh baccalaureate, there should be evidence as to why that decision has been taken.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay, so there's a presumption. I think the performance measures, probably, are likely to sharpen the minds of some school leaders, so I won't\u00a0pursue that. But can you tell me what lesson you may have learnt from the universal obligation for students to study Welsh language in schools\u00a0when those schools weren't particularly ready to offer a quality course?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: As we've rehearsed\u00a0earlier, it is important that all of our schools and colleges are in a position\u00a0to deliver this qualification well and deliver a really positive experience to learners. That's why there is existing support available, and via our new professional learning programmes there will be more support available for teachers to ensure that they have the skills and the confidence to deliver the qualification in a high-quality manner.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, that's going to take some time. Would you consider\u00a0pausing the presumption of universal\u00a0roll-out until you're absolutely sure that all institutions are able to offer the bac to the quality\u00a0that you would like to see it delivered?\nKirsty Williams AM: Not at this stage. I have no intention of pausing. We have evidence that schools are already delivering the qualification\u00a0really well\u2014\nSuzy Davies AM: But you know that we've had evidence, and you must have as well, that not all schools are doing it.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: What we do know is that some schools struggle to deliver existing qualifications. I don't know\u00a0why we would turn round and say that this qualification needs to be stopped\u00a0when we wouldn't\u00a0stop other qualifications, and we'd say, 'Well, there we are, we haven't got a 100 per cent guarantee that every single school is delivering this particular qualification especially\u00a0well, therefore we're going to denude the opportunity of students to study that particular subject.' What we're saying is, 'There is a responsibility\u00a0on us, on individual schools and on our regional consortia to endure that there is professional learning in place so that all schools are in a position to deliver the qualification well.'\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Isn't it irresponsible to ask students to be obliged to take a qualification that's badly delivered?\nKirsty Williams AM: What is irresponsible is not to invest in professional\u00a0learning to ensure that all schools are in a position to deliver it well.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, I agree with you on that, actually, which is why I was a bit confused when you had some in-year additional money in this year's budget that was being given\u00a0out to consortia rather than to schools to improve the ability of their teachers to deliver the Welsh baccalaureate in certain schools. Can you tell me whether the money\u2014I think it was about \u00a35 million that was going to the consortia\u00a0in-year\u2014will you will offer them suggestions that that is used for improving baccalaureate teaching?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: The money that is available is going via consortia to schools. Individual schools are best placed to understand the professional learning needs of their staff. And if that school understands that they have particular professional learning needs for the Welsh baccalaureate, then I would expect the money to be spent on that. Where a school is doing the Welsh baccalaureate particularly well, then the school might identify other areas where they look to seek improvement. Therefore, it is for the individual school to assess the professional learning needs of their staff. We can't second-guess that, and therefore it has to be right that school leaders are able to plan the professional learning of their staff accordingly.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: I completely accept that and, as I say, it's\u00a0not for all schools, but bearing in mind we're facing evidence of polarisation of delivery, I'm\u00a0just wondering whether there wasn't a letter\u00a0suggesting\u00a0that they may want to focus on this in the schools that aren't delivering this well at the moment.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, again, that's a conversation to be had between challenge advisors in our regional\u00a0consortia who are aware of the strengths\u00a0and weaknesses in individual\u00a0schools, in conjunction with the leadership of those schools, to discuss how that professional\u00a0learning money is best spent. There isn't a school that is fantastic at everything, nor is there a school that is not good at anything, if you know\u00a0what I mean. There are strengths and weaknesses\u00a0in all schools. It is for the regional consortia, via challenge advisers, and the headteacher, to have that conversation about what the professional learning needs are for that particular school, to ensure that all their teachers, across the length and breadth of the curriculum, are in a position to deliver good-quality lessons. But we can't second-guess that.\n",
      "Kevin Palmer: Can I just make a further comment? I'll be this afternoon meeting with the regional consortia, Estyn, the universities, and the rest of what we call 'the middle tier' to discuss with them the configuration of a national curriculum for professional learning, premised on the priorities that are emerging from our current work with pioneer schools. And the shifts in pedagogy that you all know is found behind some of these issues, with the delivery of the Welsh bac, those shifts in pedagogy are right at the core of the national approach to professional learning\u2014so, things like project-based learning, the kinds of things you talked about today, moving away from a spoon-feeding model, not just for the Welsh bac but actually right across the curriculum. The new curriculum requires us to move in these new directions. So, it's absolutely true to say that each individual school is different, each individual practitioner is different, but we must give the regions and the HEIs, as it were, a menu of things, and guidance around where there are clearly weaknesses in schools. Those weaknesses need to be addressed.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: I accept that we're going forward towards Donaldson, and I'm sure that you will be getting questions on that at some time in the future. I'm more concerned about this bac\u00a0that's been around for 10 years, and there's still, as far as we can tell from the evidence that we've had, poor delivery in some schools, where there's the prospect of obligation on the horizon. That was the thing that was worrying me. Anyway, thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: I think the issue of the difference between entitlement and obligation is a very important one and is a concern to students. You were saying it's an entitlement, not an obligation, but we have had very clear evidence from colleges that some of them are making young people do it, and schools are making young people do it. So, what do you say to those schools that are insisting on their pupils doing the Welsh bac\u00a0at post 16?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: As I said, I hope that it becomes the norm that at post-16 level students take the Welsh baccalaureate, because I think it is of huge value. There may be circumstances that mean that the well-being of that student could be compromised by making them do this qualification. There could be a whole host of reasons why it is not suitable for a child to take this qualification, and therefore there has to be some flexibility in the system, and we have to trust in the professional leadership of our colleges and our headteachers to make that decision in the round, with the pupil and their parents, about what's in the best interests of those pupils. But I do think a situation where, perhaps, an entire cohort of students are suddenly deemed it's unsuitable for, I find that very hard to believe, but there could well be circumstances, for a whole host of reasons, where that particular qualification\u2014. And we would not want to jeopardise the well-being of a student by forcing them to do a qualification that wasn't in their best interests, and we need to have the flexibility in the system to allow school leaders to make that decision, but they should also then be accountable for that decision.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: But do you recognise there's maybe a case for strengthening guidance, then, on this? Because, we've had teachers tell us that they have insisted on pupils doing this, and then the parents have rung Welsh Government, and they felt undermined, then. So, do you think there's a case for strengthening the guidance or clarifying what the position is to schools and colleges?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Very happy to do that. As I said, from time to time, parents do indeed contact Welsh Government, and in that contact there is a whole variety of reasons why that parent feels the Welsh baccalaureate is not in the best interests of those children. Sometimes, that can go from the extreme of,\u00a0'I want my child to do five A-levels and I think that's in their best interest to get into Oxford and Cambridge'\u2014I would argue that that is a myth, around the need to do that many A-levels\u2014through to, 'Actually, my child has a range of learning needs, and actually this qualification isn't suited to them. Making them go out and do voluntary work in an organisation with people that don't understand their needs and they are unfamiliar with could jeopardise\u00a0my child's ability and my child's well-being.' So, there's a whole range of reasons why sometimes people have concerns about the Welsh baccalaureate. Some of those are very legitimate concerns. Sometimes, they're based on information that, perhaps, isn't correct, or the myths around, 'I need to do five A-levels if I want to go to Cambridge'. Schools, then, have some flexibility. I'm aware of a case last year where a parent felt very concerned that the students were also having to study for entrance exams into Cambridge. A conversation was had with the school. They were able to allow the student extra time to study for that qualification and pick up their Welsh bac work later on in the academic year. So, they were able to be flexible in the delivery of that qualification. I'm very pleased to say that we've had correspondence from said parent to say that his son went on to do exceptionally well in his A-levels and his Welsh baccalaureate and gained his place at Cambridge University, and that's about having the flexibility, even at a school level, to be able to respond to the needs of individual students.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Just one final question from me on this, then. As you know, mental health and the emotional health of our children and young people is a very core issue for this committee, and Estyn have said that studying the skills challenge certificate alongside three or four A-levels is a significant factor in causing stress for some young people. How do you respond to that?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, I would be the first to acknowledge that studying A-levels can be a very stressful time. That's because students, rightly, regard those qualifications as high stakes and as having a profound effect on the opportunities for the rest of their lives. So, the mere fact of studying A-levels can be a really stressful time for students because they understand how important they are, and students want to do well and they want to be able to move on to the next stage, either of work or of university. We also know\u2014and Estyn\u00a0reflects this\u2014that students are also often trying to combine that with part-time jobs. These students are of an age when they want to be out and about and earning some of their own money and being a bit more independent. So, that adds added pressure to them. So, undoubtedly, this is a stressful time in young people's lives and we need to ensure that there is support in school to support young people through this time to make sure that students are making the right choices in terms of their A-levels and the qualifications that they're doing so they're not having to do more because they're under the impression that, by doing more, that's going to make them more likely to succeed. What we know, actually, is it's about the quality of what you do rather than the entirety of what you do that's important to universities, and we need to make sure that students are getting really good information, advice and guidance and support at what is a challenging time in their lives, because, of course, it comes on top of working really hard for your GCSEs and then you have, the following year, AS-level examinations and A-level examinations after that. So, these are stressful times in children's lives and they realise the importance of these as high-stakes qualifications.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. The next questions are from Janet Finch-Saunders.\nJanet Finch-Saunders AM: This is about the wider impact of studying the Welsh bac\u00a0on other curriculum subjects and education provision, and we've had representations in that it is causing some concerns. So, do you have any concerns about the effect that the Welsh bac\u00a0may be having on wider education provisions, such as the narrowing of the curriculum at key stage 4?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: No. Obviously, schools are responsible for planning their local curriculum offer, and that needs to meet the needs of their learners, and it also needs to meet the needs of the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009. So, there should be a wide variety of choices available. I believe that the skills challenge certificate actually does ensure that there is a broad curriculum and that children are exposed to different learning opportunities. And so, rather than narrowing it, I believe the Welsh bac\u00a0helps us to make sure that there is an expansive curriculum, and that lots of different issues are explored in the skills challenge certificate that ensure not just academic skills are developed, but, actually, knowledge and skills of a wider range of subjects about you and your place in the world is available via this qualification.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Okay, thanks. And then, to what extent do you think that the Welsh bac\u00a0should be give priority over other curriculum subjects?\nKirsty Williams AM: Well, I don't think it's\u2014. It shouldn't be at the expense of other subjects. It should be part of that wide range of opportunities that are afforded to students, and I don't think it's more important\u00a0or less important than\u00a0other aspects of what we already ask schools to deliver.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: What about where we've taken representations that there's a lack of capacity in terms of all the extra pressures of studying the Welsh bac along with other qualifications? I went to a school in Bangor, and, again, as has been said here, it's very polarised, the evidence that we're taking\u2014either some have found it very easy or some, including teachers, have found it extremely difficult to fit everything in, and they do believe that there is a lack of capacity there.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: And the onerous nature and the consequences of workload for teachers is acknowledged by the Qualifications Wales work and review into the qualification, and that is one of the things that we're looking to address so that the assessment arrangements and workload implications for teachers are not too onerous. And, if there is any element of duplication\u2014students being asked to do things over and over\u2014then that needs to be addressed as well, and that's why there is this review by the design group.\n",
      "Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Okay, thanks. And then, how do you respond to concerns that learners are avoiding studying the Welsh bac\u2014 where they can, that is\u2014by\u00a0attending institutions in England or institutions that do not offer Welsh-medium provision?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, it's interesting, isn't it, about where children choose to study and whether they are motivated by the avoidance of the Welsh bac? People make decisions about where to study for a whole host of reasons, and it's difficult sometimes to quantify what those are. So, for instance, we often hear this along the border that, because\u2014. The geography is not easy, but it can be relatively easy to go across into the English system and therefore you don't have to do this. Now, the reasons for that could be very variable. It could be about the nature of the offer. We know that, in some of our rural schools, the secondary sixth forms aren't able to offer a wide variety of A-levels, and perhaps, by going to a different institution, a larger institution across the way, then you can get that combination of the A-levels you want to do, which simply isn't possible if you do it in your home school. Or, we do have some consortia arrangements where A-levels are delivered across a wide variety of schools, which require students to travel. Some students don't want to do that; they don't want to do their A-levels in three different schools, but they'd rather go to an institution where they can do it all under one roof. And that means, sometimes, moving across the border or, in the area I live, children making the decision to go to Merthyr college, because its a lovely, beautiful new building, the facilities are absolutely fantastic and a wide variety of A-levels is available under one roof. We looked at, in particular, also, the perception of quality. So, if we take the example of King Henry VIII School in Abergavenny, a school where, in the past, there have been, I think, within the community, some concerns about the quality of that school\u2014whether it's regarded as a good school. And, from that particular location, you can quite easily get to Hereford college\u2014a college that has a fantastic offer, does very, very well and has a beautiful building. What we do, if we look at the tracking of the students who have been retained in King Henry VIII, as that school has been on its improvement journey and has done better and better and better, the number of students that they are retaining into their sixth form has grown. So, the perception is, 'This is a good school, I'm going to get a good-quality experience here', and more and more students are choosing to stay in that school than perhaps make the decision to travel somewhere else. We also have to recognise that, for some students, staying in the sixth form isn't what they want to do; they want a different experience, they want to go to an FE college. They want a different experience. So, we have to take into consideration that students could be motivated by a wide variety of subjects, and there's no hard-and-fast evidence that it is avoidance of the bac\u00a0that is the sole driver for some of these choices.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Si\u00e2n, on this.\nSian Gwenllian AM: The evidence that we've had from one of the teaching unions\u2014robust and clear evidence\u2014is that this is happening, that is, that young people are leaving Wales to go over the border to schools in England in order to avoid the Welsh bac. That's exactly what was said to us. But you don't accept that evidence.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: I'm not saying that I don't accept it. I'm saying that I think\u00a0there are a wide variety of reasons\u00a0why students make decisions about where to study. I'm not aware of any comprehensive piece of work that has looked at those motivations, and I think there could be a whole host of reasons why children are deciding to move across the border. Perhaps the Welsh bac is an easy one to place that hook on, and that's easier to acknowledge, isn't it, than saying that perhaps students are making that choice for other reasons.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. The next questions, then, are on teacher learning from Suzy.\nSuzy Davies AM: Actually, I've asked the question that I wanted to ask.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay, you don't want to\u2014\nSuzy Davies AM: By all means you ask the others I had.\nLynne Neagle AM: Okay. You have referred to training already. The committee's got two concerns, really. One is about preparedness in ITE to teach the Welsh bac, so I don't know if you want to expand on how teachers are being skilled up at that level to deliver the Welsh bac effectively.\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: In the accreditation process, which has not been without its pain, and some significant decisions made in that regard, the criteria for the ITE programmes note that, and I'm going to quote it: 'Teachers should be able to help children and young people to make links across their learning, bringing together different aspects to examine, for example, important topics such as citizenship, enterprise, financial capability and sustainability.' So, the prime driver for our ITE reforms, obviously, is the preparedness for 'Successful Futures', but in preparing our teachers to be in a position to successfully deliver that, those are also the pedagogical principles and that shift in pedagogy that we see aligned to the Welsh baccalaureate. So, it is actually a part of the accreditation process that the curriculum that the new ITE providers will have to deliver\u2014ensuring that teachers have those skills and have that confidence to be able to deliver their teaching in a way that, as I said, ensures that we successfully deliver on Donaldson, but also on the same pedagogical principles that are needed for the successful delivery of the Welsh bac.\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: In the pre-Donaldson period, then, bearing in mind what you've just said, do you expect to see a surge in improvement on how the baccalaureate is taken up by those schools that are currently less keen on it?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: I hope that we will see increased numbers of students taking the qualification and an increase in the quality of that experience for young people. As we discussed earlier, we're not just waiting for the new graduates to come out of our ITE providers. There's a whole cohort of the workforce already out there. They should be given an equal opportunity to ensure that they have the skills to deliver on our curriculum reforms and our reform qualifications, and every time the previous Government has brought in a reformed qualification there have been specific resources made available to ensure that teachers are in a position to do that. So, when we changed to maths numeracy, a new qualification that was to be examined, there was specific resource made available for the professional learning for teachers to make sure that they were in a position to do that, and that's exactly the same as the offer that we have available for teachers who are delivering the Welsh bac.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. And you've already said about continuing professional development, that this is going to be a core part of the CPD. Is there anything that you want to add on that? Is it going to be fully integrated into the professional learning offer?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Yes, absolutely. There is already\u2014I don't want to make the impression that there's not already support available out there. There is already support out there via regional consortia for professional learning with regard to the Welsh baccalaureate. There is existing support available from the WJEC with regard to Welsh baccalaureate, and it will continue, as we drive forward our national approach to professional learning. And, increasingly, there are interesting ways in which we're supporting students, so I don't know if Members are aware of the new MOOC. The University of Bath, one of the Russell Group universities, delivered a MOOC for the extended project qualification in England.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: What's a MOOC? [Laughter.]\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: So, it is an online\u2014a massive open online course. So, it's a course that is delivered free of charge, and it's delivered by information technology. So, the University of Bath have done this MOOC to support students with the EPQ. They have just launched, in conjunction with Aberystwyth University, a bilingual MOOC for the individual project for Welsh bac. It's our understanding it is the first ever Welsh-medium MOOC, we think; we're not aware of any others. And this resource is there for students to give them advice on how they do choose the thesis for their individual project: how do you go about, then, undertaking good independent research; how do you reference properly, to ensure that you do that correctly? And we've seen over 1,000 students already sign up for the MOOC. So, increasingly, there are lots and lots of new resources out there for both teachers and students to make the most of. And the fact that Bath and Aberystwyth have worked together on this, I believe, shows their commitment and a demonstration of their support for this qualification, otherwise why would the University of Bath bother, if they weren't interested in it?\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Just one final question from me. I've written to you about a young constituent who moved institutions and resat the Welsh bac, but wasn't able, because of the WJEC\u00a0policy, to obtain a higher grade in it, because they've got a policy that the grade is capped when you resit it. Given what the committee's been told about the variability in\u00a0the way this is taught in institutions in Wales, do you think it's fair that young people shouldn't be able to go and resit it somewhere else and get a better grade?\n",
      "Kirsty Williams AM: Well, given that Welsh Ministers are independent of the qualification system, I would want to be careful about what I said, because it is for the WJEC\u00a0and Qualifications Wales to regulate this. But, clearly, we would want to reflect on making sure that students have an opportunity, and a fair opportunity. Andrew, I don't know if you've got any observations that you'd like to make.\nAndrew Clark: No, not really. I think it's an individual case, this one\u2014\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: But it could apply to lots of young people, couldn't it? I mean, that's the point here. I know it's a constituent's case and I don't normally raise those in the Chair, but I think, given what we've learned about variability, it is a valid issue for young people in Wales, really.\n",
      "Andrew Clark: Yes, whether it's particularly related to the Welsh baccalaureate, though, I'm not so certain. And I think that would be a better question to ask the WJEC, perhaps, and Qualifications Wales, because it's a deliberate act that that activity is at arm's length from Welsh Ministers.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Any other questions from Members? No. Okay, well, can I thank the Cabinet Secretary and her officials for attending? We've had a very useful discussion this morning, which will inform our report on this. As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy, but thank you again for your attendance.\nKirsty Williams AM: Thank you.\n",
      "Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Llywydd to the First Minister on the role of the Assembly in the process of legislating for Brexit. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Education and the Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning with additional information following the meeting on 8 November. Are Members happy to note those?\n",
      "Suzy Davies AM: Can I just make a comment on the first of those letters, the one from the Llywydd? I recommend to Assembly Members that they read that again if they can, because, actually, it's an important issue that is easily lost in the other things that we talk about with Brexit, and that is the role of this Assembly in scrutinising secondary legislation falling out of Brexit.\nHefin David AM: Can I ask a question? Was that a reflection of all the Chairs?\nLynne Neagle AM: Yes. It came to the panel of Chairs\u2014\nHefin David AM: And it was obviously unanimous\u2014\n"
    ],
    "length": 16231,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 55,
    "question": "What was discussed in the meeting?",
    "answer": "The group talked about the ongoing transcription effort and issues related to the Transcriber tool, which despite its limitations for capturing tight time markings for overlapping speech, will continue to remain in use. Speaker mn014 explained his efforts to pre-segment the signal into speech and non-speech portions for facilitating transcriptions. Recording equipment and procedures were discussed, with a focus on audible breathing and the need for standards in microphone wear and use. ",
    "docs": [
      "Grad A: OK . We seem to be recording .\nProfessor G: Alright !\nGrad A: So , sorry about not {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: We 're not crashing .\nPhD D: Number four .\nGrad A: not pre - doing everything . The lunch went a little later than I was expecting , Chuck .\nPhD E: Hmm ?\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD B: Chuck was telling too many jokes , or something ?\nGrad A: Yep . Pretty much .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: OK . {vocalsound} Does anybody have an agenda ?\nGrad A: No .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well , I 'm {disfmarker} I sent a couple of items . They 're {disfmarker} they 're sort of practical .\nProfessor G: I thought {pause} somebody had .\nPostdoc F: I don't know if you 're {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Yeah , that 's right .\nPostdoc F: if {disfmarker} if that 's too practical for what we 're {pause} focused on .\nGrad A: I mean , we don't want anything too practical .\nProfessor G: Yeah , we only want th useless things .\nGrad A: Yeah , that would be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . No , why don't we talk about practical things ?\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: Sure .\nPostdoc F: Well , um , I can {pause} give you an update on the {pause} transcription effort .\nProfessor G: Great .\nPostdoc F: Uh , maybe {nonvocalsound} raise the issue of microphone , uh , um procedures with reference to the {pause} cleanliness of the recordings .\nProfessor G: OK , transcription , uh , microphone issues {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: And then maybe {nonvocalsound} ask , th uh , these guys . The {disfmarker} we have great {disfmarker} great , uh , p steps forward in terms of the nonspeech - speech pre - segmenting of the signal .\nProfessor G: OK .\nGrad A: Well , we have steps forward .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Well , it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a big improvement .\nPhD C: I would prefer this .\nProfessor G: Yes . Yeah , well . OK . Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: We talk about the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the results of\nProfessor G: You have some {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad A: I have a little bit of IRAM stuff\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD D: use {disfmarker}\nGrad A: but {pause} I 'm not sure if that 's of general interest or not .\nProfessor G: Uh , bigram ?\nGrad A: IRAM .\nPhD D: IRAM .\nProfessor G: IRAM .\nGrad A: IRAM , bigram ,\nProfessor G: Well , m maybe .\nPhD D: Bi - Bigram .\n",
      "Grad A: you know .\nProfessor G: Yeah , let 's {disfmarker} let 's see where we are at three - thirty .\nPhD B: Hmm .\nProfessor G: Um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Since , uh {disfmarker} since I have to leave as usual at three - thirty , can we do the interesting stuff first ?\nPostdoc F: I beg your pardon ?\nProfessor G: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Which is {disfmarker} ?\nGrad A: What 's the interesting stuff ?\nPostdoc F: I beg your pardon ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . Th - now you get to tell us what 's the interesting part .\nPhD E: Please specify .\nProfessor G: But {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Well , uh , I guess the work that 's been {pause} done on segmentation would be most {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I think that would be a good thing to start with .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: OK . Um , and , um , {vocalsound} the other thing , uh , which I 'll just say very briefly that maybe relates to that a little bit , which is that , um , uh , one of the suggestions that came up in a brief meeting I had the other day when I was in Spain with , uh , Manolo Pardo and {vocalsound} Javier , uh , Ferreiros , who was {pause} here before , was , um , why not start with what they had before but add in the non - silence boundaries . So , in what Javier did before when they were doing , um {disfmarker} h he was looking for , uh , speaker change {pause} points .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Um . As a simplification , he originally did this only using {pause} silence as , uh , a {pause} putative , uh , speaker change point .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: And , uh , he did not , say , look at points where you were changing broad sp uh , phonetic class , for instance . And for Broadcast News , that was fine . Here obviously it 's not .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And , um , so one of the things that they were pushing in d in discussing with me is , um , w why are you spending so much time , uh , on the , uh , feature issue , uh , when perhaps if you sort of deal with what you were using before\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor G: and then just broadened it a bit , instead of just ta using silence as putative change point also {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Nnn , yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: So then you 've got {disfmarker} you already have the super - structure with Gaussians and H - you know , simple H M Ms and so forth . And you {disfmarker} you might {disfmarker} So there was a {disfmarker} there was a little bit of a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a difference of opinion because I {disfmarker} I thought that it was {disfmarker} it 's interesting to look at what features are useful .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: But , uh , on the other hand I saw that the {disfmarker} they had a good point that , uh , if we had something that worked for many cases before , maybe starting from there a little bit {disfmarker} Because ultimately we 're gonna end up {vocalsound} with some s su kind of structure like that ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: where you have some kind of simple HMM and you 're testing the hypothesis that , {vocalsound} uh , there is a change .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: So {disfmarker} so anyway , I just {disfmarker} reporting that .\nPhD D: OK .\nProfessor G: But , uh , uh {disfmarker} So . Yeah , why don't we do the speech - nonspeech discussion ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Do {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hear {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you didn't {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Speech - nonspeech ? OK .\nPostdoc F: Uh - huh . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Um , so , uh , what we basically did so far was using the mixed file to {disfmarker} to detect s speech or nonspeech {pause} portions in that .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: And what I did so far is I just used our old Munich system , which is an HMM - ba based system with Gaussian mixtures for s speech and nonspeech . And it was a system which used only one Gaussian for silence and one Gaussian for speech . And now I added , uh , multi - mixture possibility for {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for speech and nonspeech .\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: And I did some training on {disfmarker} on one dialogue , which was transcribed by {disfmarker} Yeah . We {disfmarker} we did a nons s speech - nonspeech transcription .\nPhD D: Jose .\n",
      "PhD C: Adam , Dave , and I , we did , for that dialogue and I trained it on that . And I did some pre - segmentations for {disfmarker} for Jane . And I 'm not sure how good they are or what {disfmarker} what the transcribers say . They {disfmarker} they can use it or {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc F: Uh , they {disfmarker} they think it 's a terrific improvement . And , um , it real it just makes a {disfmarker} a world of difference .\nProfessor G: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And , um , y you also did some something in addition which was , um , for those in which there {nonvocalsound} was , uh , quiet speakers in the mix .\nPhD C: Yeah . Uh , yeah . That {disfmarker} that was one {disfmarker} one {disfmarker} one thing , uh , why I added more mixtures for {disfmarker} for the speech . So I saw that there were loud {disfmarker} loudly speaking speakers and quietly speaking speakers .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: And so I did two mixtures , one for the loud speakers and one for the quiet speakers .\nGrad A: And did you hand - label who was loud and who was quiet , or did you just {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: I did that for {disfmarker} for five minutes of one dialogue\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD C: and that was enough to {disfmarker} to train the system .\nPhD B: W What {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: And so it {disfmarker} it adapts , uh , on {disfmarker} while running . So .\nPhD B: What kind of , uh , front - end processing did you do ?\nPhD C: Hopefully .\nPhD D: OK .\nPhD C: It 's just our {disfmarker} our old Munich , uh , loudness - based spectrum on mel scale twenty {disfmarker} twenty critical bands and then loudness .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: And four additional features , which is energy , loudness , modified loudness , and zero crossing rate . So it 's twenty - four {disfmarker} twenty - four features .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And you also provided me with several different versions ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: which I compared .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: And so you change {nonvocalsound} parameters . What {disfmarker} do you wanna say something about the parameters {nonvocalsound} that you change ?\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . You can specify {vocalsound} the minimum length of speech or {disfmarker} and silence portions which you want . And so I did some {disfmarker} some modifications in those parameters , basically changing the minimum {disfmarker} minimum {pause} length for s for silence to have , er to have , um {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} to have more or less , uh , silence portions in inserted . So .\nGrad A: Right . So this would work well for , uh , pauses and utterance boundaries and things like that .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: But for overlap I imagine that doesn't work at all ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: that you 'll have plenty of s sections that are {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: That 's it . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: That 's true . But {nonvocalsound} it {disfmarker} it saves so much time {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {nonvocalsound} transcribers\nProfessor G: Um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc F: just enormous , enormous savings . Fantastic .\nProfessor G: That 's great . Um , just qu one quickly , uh , still on the features . So {vocalsound} you have these twenty - four features .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: Uh , a lot of them are spectral features . Is there a {disfmarker} a transformation , uh , like principal components transformation or something ?\nPhD C: No .\nGrad A: Yeah . It was IS two .\nPhD C: No . W w we {disfmarker} originally we did that\nProfessor G: Just {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: but we saw , uh , when we used it , uh , f for our close - talking microphone , which {disfmarker} yeah , for our {disfmarker} for our recognizer in Munich {disfmarker} we saw that w it 's {disfmarker} it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not so necessary . It {disfmarker} it works as well f with {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} without , uh , a LDA or something .\nProfessor G: OK . OK . No , I was j {pause} curious .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Yeah , I don't think it 's a big deal for this application ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor G: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . OK . But then there 's another thing that also Thilo 's involved with , which is , um {disfmarker} OK , and {disfmarker} and also Da - Dave Gelbart . So there 's this {disfmarker} this problem of {disfmarker} and w and {disfmarker} so we had this meeting . Th - the {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} also Adam , before the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} before you went away . Uh we , um {disfmarker} regarding the representation {nonvocalsound} of overlaps , because at present , {nonvocalsound} {vocalsound} um , because {nonvocalsound} of the limitations of {vocalsound} th the interface we 're using , overlaps are , uh , not being {nonvocalsound} encoded by {nonvocalsound} the transcribers in as complete {nonvocalsound} and , uh , detailed a way as it might be , and as might be desired {disfmarker} I think would be desired in the corpus ultimately .\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: So we don't have start and end points {nonvocalsound} at each point where there 's an overlap . We just have the {disfmarker} the {nonvocalsound} overlaps {nonvocalsound} encoded in a simple bin . Well , OK . So {nonvocalsound} @ @ the limits of the {nonvocalsound} over of {disfmarker} of the interface are {vocalsound} such that we were {disfmarker} at this meeting we were entertaining how we might either expand {nonvocalsound} the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} interface or find other tools which already {pause} do what would be useful . Because what would ultimately be , um , ideal in my {disfmarker} my view and I think {disfmarker} I mean , I had the sense that it was consensus , is that , um , a thorough - going musical score notation would be {nonvocalsound} the best way to go . Because {nonvocalsound} you can have multiple channels , there 's a single time - line , it 's very clear , flexible , and all those nice things .\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: OK . So , um , um , I spoke {disfmarker} I had a meeting with Dave Gelbart on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} and he had , uh , excellent ideas on how {pause} the interface could be {pause} modified to {disfmarker} to do this kind of representation . But , um , he {disfmarker} in the meantime you were checking into the existence of already , um , existing interfaces which might already have these properties . So , do you wanna say something about that ?\n",
      "PhD C: Yes . Um , I {vocalsound} talked with , uh , Munich guys from {disfmarker} from Ludwi - Ludwig Maximilians University , who do a lot of transcribing and transliterations .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: And they basically said they have {disfmarker} they have , uh , a tool they developed {pause} themselves and they can't give away , uh , f it 's too error - prone , and had {disfmarker} it 's not supported , a a a and {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: But , um , Susanne Bur - Burger , who is at se CMU , he wa who was formally at {disfmarker} in Munich and w and is now at {disfmarker} with CMU , she said she has something which she uses to do eight channels , uh , trans transliterations , eight channels simultaneously ,\nProfessor G: Excuse me .\nPhD C: but it 's running under Windows .\nPostdoc F: Under Windows .\nPhD C: So I 'm not sure if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if we can use it .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: She said she would give it to us .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: It wouldn't be a problem . And I 've got some {disfmarker} some kind of manual {pause} down in my office .\nGrad A: Well , maybe we should get it and if it 's good enough we 'll arrange Windows machines to be available .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . We could {disfmarker} uh , potentially {nonvocalsound} so .\nGrad A: So .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I also wanted to be sure {disfmarker} I mean , I 've {disfmarker} I 've seen the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is called Praat , PRAAT , {nonvocalsound} which I guess means spee speech in Dutch or something .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD C: Yeah , but then I 'm not sure {pause} that 's the right thing for us .\n",
      "Postdoc F: But {disfmarker} In terms {nonvocalsound} of it being {nonvocalsound} Windows {nonvocalsound} versus {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nGrad A: No , no . Praat isn't {disfmarker} Praat 's multi - platform .\nPostdoc F: But I 'm just wondering , is {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: No . No , Praat {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Oh ! I see .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Oh , I see . So Praat may not be {disfmarker}\nPhD C: That 's not Praat . It 's called \" trans transedit \" {pause} I think .\nPostdoc F: It 's a different one .\nPhD C: The {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the tool from {disfmarker} from Susanne .\nPostdoc F: I see . Oh , I see . OK . OK . Alright .\n",
      "Professor G: The other thing , uh , to keep in mind , uh {disfmarker} I mean , we 've been very concerned to get all this rolling so that we would actually have data ,\nPostdoc F: Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor G: but , um , I think our outside sponsor is actually gonna kick in\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: and ultimately that path will be smoothed out . So I don't know if we have a long - term need to do lots and lots of transcribing . I think we had a very quick need to get something out and we 'd like to be able to do some later because just it 's inter it 's interesting . But as far a you know , uh , with {disfmarker} with any luck we 'll be able to wind down the larger project .\nGrad A: Oh .\nPhD B: But you s\n",
      "Grad A: What our decision was is that {pause} we 'll go ahead with what we have with a not very fine time scale on the overlaps .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Right . Yeah .\nGrad A: And {disfmarker} and do what we can later {pause} to clean that up if we need to .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And {disfmarker} and I was just thinking that , um , {vocalsound} if it were possible to bring that in , like , {vocalsound} you know , this week , then {nonvocalsound} when they 're encoding the overlaps {nonvocalsound} it would be nice for them to be able to specify when {disfmarker} you know , the start points and end points of overlaps .\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc F: uh Th - they 're {nonvocalsound} making really quick progress .\nProfessor G: Yeah . That 's great .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And , um , so my {disfmarker} my goal was {disfmarker} w m my charge was to get eleven hours by the end of the month . And it 'll be {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm clear that we 'll be able to do that .\nProfessor G: That 's great .\nGrad A: And did you , uh , forward Morgan Brian 's {pause} thing ?\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I sent {nonvocalsound} it to , um {disfmarker} who did I send that to ? I sent it to a list and I thought {nonvocalsound} I sent it to {nonvocalsound} the {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} e to the local list .\nPhD E: Meeting Recorder .\nGrad A: Oh , you did ? OK . So you probably did get that .\n",
      "Postdoc F: You saw that ? So Brian did tell {nonvocalsound} me that {nonvocalsound} in fact what you said , that , {nonvocalsound} uh {disfmarker} that {nonvocalsound} our {disfmarker} that they are {pause} making progress and that he 's going {disfmarker} that {nonvocalsound} they 're {nonvocalsound} going {disfmarker} he 's gonna check the f the output of the first transcription and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: I mean , basically it 's {disfmarker} it 's all the difference in the world . I mean , basically he 's {disfmarker} he 's on it now .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Oh , that 's {disfmarker} this is a new development .\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so this is {disfmarker} so i it 'll happen .\nPostdoc F: OK . Super . Super . OK . Great .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . I mean , basically it 's just saying that one of our {disfmarker} one of our best people is on it ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor G: you know , who just doesn't happen to be here anymore . Someone else pays him . So {disfmarker}\nPhD B: But about the need for transcription ,\nPostdoc F: Isn't that great ?\nPhD B: I mean , don't we {disfmarker} didn't we previously {vocalsound} decide that the {pause} IBM {pause} transcripts would have to be {pause} checked anyway and possibly augmented ?\n",
      "Professor G: So . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yes . That 's true .\nPhD B: So , I think having a good tool is worth something no matter what .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Yeah . S OK . That 's {disfmarker} that 's a good point .\nGrad A: Yeah , and Dave Gelbart did volunteer ,\nPostdoc F: Good .\n",
      "Grad A: and since he 's not here , I 'll repeat it {disfmarker} to at least modify Transcriber , which , if we don't have something else that works , I think that 's a pretty good way of going .\nPhD C: Mmm .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: And we discussed on some methods to do it . My approach originally , and I 've already hacked on it a little bit {disfmarker} it was too slow because I was trying to display all the waveforms . But he pointed out that you don't really have to . I think that 's a good point .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: That if you just display the mix waveform and then have a user interface for editing the different channels , that 's perfectly sufficient .\nProfessor G: Hmm .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , exactly . And just keep those {nonvocalsound} things separate . And {disfmarker} and , um , Dan Ellis 's hack already allows them to be {nonvocalsound} able to display {vocalsound} different {nonvocalsound} waveforms to clarify overlaps and things ,\nGrad A: No . They can only display one ,\n",
      "Postdoc F: so that 's already {disfmarker}\nGrad A: but they can listen to different ones .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Oh , yes , but {disfmarker} Well , {vocalsound} uh , yes , but {nonvocalsound} what I mean is {pause} that , uh , from the transcriber 's {nonvocalsound} perspective , uh , those {nonvocalsound} two functions are separate . And Dan Ellis 's hack handles the , {vocalsound} um , choice {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} the ability to choose different waveforms {vocalsound} from moment to moment .\nGrad A: But only to listen to , not to look at .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: The waveform you 're looking at doesn't change .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: That 's true .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , but {nonvocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} that 's OK , cuz they 're {disfmarker} they 're , you know , they 're focused on the ear anyway .\nGrad A: Right .\nPostdoc F: And then {disfmarker} and then\nProfessor G: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: the hack to {vocalsound} preserve the overlaps {nonvocalsound} better would be one which creates different output files for each channel ,\nGrad A: Right .\nPostdoc F: which then {nonvocalsound} would also serve Liz 's request {pause} of having , you know , a single channel , separable , uh , cleanly , easily separable ,\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: uh , transcript tied to a single channel , uh , audio .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm . Have , uh , folks from NIST been in contact with you ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: Not directly . I 'm trying to think if {disfmarker} if I could have gotten it over a list .\nProfessor G: OK .\nPostdoc F: I don't {disfmarker} I don't think so .\nProfessor G: OK . Well , holidays may have interrupted things , cuz in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} They {vocalsound} seem to want to {pause} get absolutely clear on standards for {disfmarker} transcription standards and so forth with {disfmarker} with us .\nPostdoc F: Oh ! This was from before December . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: Right . Because they 're {disfmarker} they 're presumably going to start recording next month .\nPostdoc F: OK . OK .\nGrad A: Oh , we should definitely get with them then ,\nProfessor G: So .\nGrad A: and agree upon a format . Though I don't remember email on that . So was I not in the loop on that ?\nProfessor G: Um . Yeah , I don't think I mailed anybody . I just think I told them to contact Jane {disfmarker} that , uh , if they had a {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh , OK .\nPostdoc F: That 's right .\n",
      "Professor G: if , uh {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that , uh , as the point person on it .\nGrad A: Yeah , I think that 's right .\nProfessor G: But {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Just , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: So , yeah . Maybe I 'll , uh , ping them a little bit about it to {vocalsound} get that straight .\nPostdoc F: OK . I 'm keeping the conventions {pause} absolutely {pause} as simple {nonvocalsound} as possible .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . So is it {disfmarker} cuz with any luck there 'll actually be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} there 'll be collections at Columbia , collections at {disfmarker} at UW {disfmarker} I mean Dan {disfmarker} Dan is very interested in doing some other things ,\nGrad A: Right .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Well , I think it 's important both for the notation and the machine representation to be the same .\nProfessor G: and collections at NIST . So {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad A: So .\n",
      "Postdoc F: N there was also this , {nonvocalsound} uh , email from Dan regarding the {pause} speech - non nonspeech segmentation thing .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: I don't know if , uh , uh , we wanna , uh {disfmarker} and Dan Gel - and Dave Gelbart is interested in pursuing the aspect {nonvocalsound} of using amplitude {nonvocalsound} as a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} as a basis for the separation .\nGrad A: Cross - correlation .\n",
      "Professor G: Oh , yeah . He was talking {disfmarker} he was talking {disfmarker} I mean , uh , we {disfmarker} he had {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Cross\nProfessor G: Yeah , cross - correlation .\nPhD C: Cross\nProfessor G: I had mentioned this a couple times before , the c the commercial devices that do , uh , {vocalsound} uh , voice , uh {disfmarker} you know , active miking ,\nPostdoc F: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor G: basically look at the amp at the energy at each of the mikes . And {disfmarker} and you basically compare the energy here to {vocalsound} some function of all of the mikes .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: So , by doing that , you know , rather than setting any , uh , absolute threshold , you actually can do pretty good , uh , selection of who {disfmarker} who 's talking .\nPostdoc F: OK .\n",
      "Professor G: Uh {disfmarker} And those {disfmarker} those systems work very well , by the way , I mean , so people use them in {vocalsound} panel discussions and so forth with sound reinforcement differing in {disfmarker} in sort of ,\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor G: uh {disfmarker} and , uh , those {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} Boy , the guy I knew who built them , built them like twenty {disfmarker} twenty years ago ,\nGrad A: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: so they 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the techniques work pretty well .\nPostdoc F: Fantastic . Cuz there is one thing that we don't have right now and that is the automatic , um , channel identifier .\nProfessor G: So .\nPostdoc F: That {disfmarker} that , you know , that would g help in terms of encoding of overlaps .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: The {disfmarker} the transcribers would have less , uh , disentangling to do {pause} if that were available .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . So I think , you know , basically you can look at some {disfmarker} p you have to play around a little bit , uh , to figure out what the right statistic is ,\nPostdoc F: But .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: but you compare each microphone to some statistic based on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} on the overall {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: OK .\n",
      "Professor G: Uh , and we also have these {disfmarker} we have the advantage of having {pause} distant mikes too . So that , you cou yo\nGrad A: Yeah , although the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} using the close - talking I think would be much better . Wouldn't it ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Um . I {disfmarker} I don't know .\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: I just {disfmarker} it 'd be {disfmarker} If I was actually working on it , I 'd sit there and {disfmarker} and play around with it , and {disfmarker} and get a feeling for it . I mean , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} But , uh , you certainly wanna use the close - talking , as a {disfmarker} at least .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor G: I don't know if the other would {disfmarker} would add some other helpful dimension or not .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . OK . What {disfmarker} what are the different , uh , classes to {disfmarker} to code , uh , the {disfmarker} the overlap , you will use ?\nPostdoc F: Um , to code d\nPhD D: What you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: so types of overlap ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Um , so {nonvocalsound} at a meeting that wasn't transcribed , we worked up a {disfmarker} a typology .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: And , um {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Look like , uh , you t you explaining in the blackboard ? The {disfmarker} ? Yeah ? Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yes , exactly . That hasn't changed . So it {nonvocalsound} i the {disfmarker} it 's basically a two - tiered structure where the first one is whether {nonvocalsound} the person who 's interrupted continues or not . And then below that there 're {nonvocalsound} subcategories , uh , that have more to do with , {nonvocalsound} you know , is it , {vocalsound} uh , simply {nonvocalsound} backchannel\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: or is {nonvocalsound} it , um , someone completing someone else 's thought , or is it someone in introducing a new thought .\nGrad A: Right . And I hope that if we do a forced alignment with the close - talking mike , that will be enough to recover at least some of the time the time information of when the overlap occurred .\nPhD D: Huh . Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Well , {vocalsound} one would {disfmarker}\nPhD D: We hope .\nGrad A: Yeah . Who knows ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: That 'd be {disfmarker} that 'd be nice . I mean , {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 've {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So who 's gonna do that ? Who 's gonna do forced alignment ?\nGrad A: Well , u uh , IBM was going to . Um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Oh , OK .\nPhD D: Oh .\nGrad A: and I imagine they still plan to but {disfmarker} but , you know , I haven't spoken with them about that recently .\n",
      "PhD B: OK .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor G: Well , uh , my suggestion now is {disfmarker} is on all of these things to , uh , contact Brian .\nGrad A: OK . I 'll do that .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: This is wonderful {nonvocalsound} to have a direct contact like that .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: uh Well , th lemme ask {nonvocalsound} you this .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: It occurs to me {disfmarker} {vocalsound} one of my transcribers t {nonvocalsound} told {nonvocalsound} me today that she 'll {nonvocalsound} be finished with one meeting , {vocalsound} um , by {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: well , she said tomorrow but then she said {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} you know , but {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} the , you know {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} let 's just , uh , say\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: maybe the day after just to be s on the safe side . I could send Brian the , {nonvocalsound} um {disfmarker} the {nonvocalsound} transcript . I know these {nonvocalsound} are {disfmarker} er , uh , I could send him that {nonvocalsound} if {nonvocalsound} it would be possible , {nonvocalsound} or a good idea or not , to {nonvocalsound} try {nonvocalsound} to do a s forced alignment on what we 're {disfmarker} on the way we 're encoding overlaps now .\n",
      "Professor G: Well , just talk to him about it .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc F: Good .\nProfessor G: I mean , you know , basically he 's {disfmarker} he just studies , he 's a colleague , a friend , and ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah !\nProfessor G: uh , they {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , you know , the {disfmarker} the organization always did wanna help us .\nPostdoc F: Super . Super .\nProfessor G: It was just a question of getting , you know , the right people connected in , who had the time .\nGrad A: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor G: So , um , eh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Is he on the mailing list ? The Meeting Recorder mailing li ?\nPostdoc F: Oh !\nGrad A: We should add him .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know for sure .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD E: Did something happen , Morgan , that he got put on this , or was he already on it ,\nGrad A: Add him .\nPhD E: or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Professor G: No , I , eh , eh , p It {disfmarker} it oc I {disfmarker} h it 's {disfmarker} Yeah , something happened . I don't know what .\nPhD B: He asked for more work .\nPhD E: Huh .\nProfessor G: But he 's on it now .\nPostdoc F: That would be {nonvocalsound} like {disfmarker} that 'd be like him . He 's great .\n",
      "Professor G: Right . So , uh , where are we ? Maybe , uh , uh , brief {disfmarker} Well , let 's {disfmarker} why don't we talk about microphone issues ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah . That 'd be great .\nProfessor G: That was {disfmarker} that was a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Um , so one thing is that I did look on Sony 's for a replacement for the mikes {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for the head m head - worn ones cuz they 're so uncomfortable . But I think I need someone who knows more about mikes than I do , because I couldn't find a single other model that seemed like it would fit the connector , which seems really unlikely to me . Does anyone , like , know stores or {vocalsound} know about mikes who {disfmarker} who would know the right questions to ask ?\n",
      "Professor G: Oh , I probably would . I mean , my knowledge is twenty years out of date but some of it 's still the same .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker} Uh , so maybe we c we can take a look at that .\nPhD E: You couldn't {disfmarker} you couldn't find the right connector to go into these things ?\nGrad A: Yep . When I looked , i they listed one microphone and that 's it\nPhD E: Huh !\n",
      "Grad A: as having that type of connector . But my guess is that Sony maybe uses a different number for their connector than everyone else does . And {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm . Well , let 's look at it together\nGrad A: it seems {disfmarker} it seems really unlikely to me that there 's only one .\nProfessor G: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: And there 's no adaptor for it ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Seems like there 'd be a {disfmarker} OK .\nGrad A: As I said , who knows ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Who {disfmarker} who are we buying these from ?\nGrad A: Um ,\nProfessor G: That 'd be\nGrad A: I have it downstairs . I don't remember off the top of my head .\nProfessor G: Yeah . OK . Yeah . We {disfmarker} we can try and look at that together .\n",
      "Grad A: And then , uh {disfmarker} just in terms of how you wear them {disfmarker} I mean , I had thought about this before . I mean , when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when you use a product like DragonDictate , they have a very extensive description about how to wear the microphone and so on .\nPostdoc F: Oh .\nGrad A: But I felt that in a real situation we were very seldom gonna get people to really do it and maybe it wasn't worth concentrating on . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Well , I think that that 's {disfmarker} that 's a good back - off position . That 's what I was saying {vocalsound} earlier , th that , you know , we are gonna get some {vocalsound} recordings that are imperfect and , hey , that 's life . But I {disfmarker} I think that it {disfmarker} it doesn't hurt , uh , the naturalness of the situation to try to have people {pause} wear the microphones properly , if possible ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: because , {vocalsound} um , the natural situation is really what we have with the microphones on the table .\nGrad A: Oh . That 's true .\nProfessor G: I mean , I think , {vocalsound} you know , in the target applications that we 're talking about , people aren't gonna be wearing head - mounted mikes anyway .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: So this is just for u these head - mounted mikes are just for use with research .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And , uh , it 's gonna make {disfmarker} You know , if {disfmarker} if An - Andreas plays around with language modeling , he 's not gonna be m wanna be messed up by people breathing into the microphone .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor G: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Well , I 'll dig through the documentation to DragonDictate and ste s see if they still have the little {pause} form .\nProfessor G: But it does happen .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: Right ? I mean , and any {disfmarker}\nPhD B: It 's interesting , uh , I talked to some IBM guys , uh , last January , I think , I was there . And {disfmarker} so people who were working on the {disfmarker} on their ViaVoice dictation product .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD B: And they said , uh , the breathing is really a {disfmarker} a terrible problem {pause} for them , to {disfmarker} to not recognize breathing as speech .\nPostdoc F: Wow .\n",
      "PhD B: So , anything to reduce breathing is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is a good thing .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nGrad A: Well , that 's the {disfmarker} It seemed to me when I was using Dragon that it was really microphone placement helped an {disfmarker} in , uh {disfmarker} an enormous amount .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: So you want it enough to the side so that when you exhale through your nose , it doesn't {disfmarker} the wind doesn't hit the mike .\nPhD B: Right . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: And then , uh {disfmarker} Everyone 's adjusting their microphones , of course . And then just close enough so that you get good volume . So you know , wearing it right about here seems to be about the right way to do it .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Is {disfmarker} Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor G: I remember when I was {disfmarker} when I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I used , uh , um , {vocalsound} a prominent laboratory 's , uh , uh , speech recognizer about , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} This was , boy , this was a while ago , this was about twelve {disfmarker} twelve years ago or something . And , um , they were {disfmarker} they were perturbed with me because I was breathing in instead of breathing out . And they had models for {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they had Markov models for br breathing out but they didn't have them for breathing in .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: That 's interesting . Well , what I wondered is whether it 's possible to have {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to maybe use the display at the beginning\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: to be able to {disfmarker} to judge how {disfmarker} how correctly {disfmarker} I mean , have someone do some routine whatever , and {disfmarker} and then see if when they 're breathing it 's showing .\n",
      "Grad A: I mean , when {disfmarker} when it 's on , you can see it .\nPostdoc F: I don't know if the {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: I {disfmarker}\nGrad A: You can definitely see it .\nPostdoc F: Can you see the breathing ?\nGrad A: Absolutely .\nPostdoc F: Cuz I {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Absolutely .\nPostdoc F: Oh .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nGrad A: And so , you know , I 've {disfmarker} I 've sat here and watched sometimes the breathing ,\n",
      "Professor G: I\nGrad A: and the bar going up and down , and I 'm thinking , I could say something , but\nProfessor G: I mean , I think {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I don't want to make people self - conscious . Stop breathing !\nProfessor G: It {disfmarker} it 's going to be imperfect .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Uh - huh .\nProfessor G: You 're not gonna get it perfect . And you can do some , uh , you know , first - order thing about it , which is to have people move it , uh , uh , a away from being just directly in front of the middle\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Good .\nProfessor G: but not too far away .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , i\nProfessor G: And then , you know , I think there 's not much {disfmarker} Because you can't al you know , interfere w you can't fine tune the meeting that much , I think .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: It 's sort of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: That 's true . It just seems like i if something l simple like that can be tweaked {vocalsound} and the quality goes , you know , uh , dramatically up , then it might be worth {pause} doing .\nGrad A: Yep . And then also {disfmarker} the position of the mike also . If it 's more directly , you 'll get better volume . So {disfmarker} so , like , yours is pretty far down {pause} below your mouth . Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: But {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . My {disfmarker} my feedback from the transcribers is he is always close to crystal clear and {disfmarker} and just fan fantastic to {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: I don't know why that is .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well , I mean , you {disfmarker} Yeah , of course . You 're {disfmarker} you 're also {disfmarker} uh , your volume is {disfmarker} is greater . But {disfmarker} but still , I mean , they {disfmarker} they say {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I 've been eating a lot .\nPostdoc F: I it makes their {disfmarker} their job extremely easy .\nProfessor G: Uh .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor G: And then there 's mass .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Anyway .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I could say something about {disfmarker} about the {disfmarker} Well , I don't know what you wanna do . Yeah .\nProfessor G: About what ?\nPostdoc F: About the transcribers or anything or {disfmarker} ? I don't know .\nProfessor G: Well , the other {disfmarker}\nPhD B: But , uh , just to {disfmarker} to , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: why don't we do that ?\n",
      "PhD B: One more remark , uh , concerning the SRI recognizer . Um . It is useful to transcribe and then ultimately train models for things like breath , and also laughter is very , very frequent and important to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to model .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So ,\nGrad A: So ,\nPhD B: if you can in your transcripts mark {disfmarker}\nGrad A: mark them ?\nPhD B: mark very audible breaths and laughter especially ,\nPhD C: Mmm .\nPhD B: um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: They are .\n",
      "PhD B: OK .\nPostdoc F: They 're putting {disfmarker} Eh , so in curly brackets they put \" inhale \" or \" breath \" .\nGrad A: Oh , great .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: It {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} and then in curly brackets they say \" laughter \" . Now they 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they 're not being {pause} awfully precise , uh , m So they 're two types of laughter that are not being distinguished .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: One is {vocalsound} when sometimes s someone will start laughing when they 're in the middle of a sentence .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And {disfmarker} and then the other one is when they finish the sentence and then they laugh . So , um , I {disfmarker} I did s I did some double checking to look through {disfmarker} I mean , {vocalsound} you 'd need to have extra  e extra complications , like time tags indicating the beginning and ending of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of the laughing through the utterance .\n",
      "PhD B: It 's not so {disfmarker} I don't think it 's , um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: And that {disfmarker} and what they 're doing is in both cases just saying \" curly brackets laughing \" a after the unit .\nPhD B: As {disfmarker} as long as there is an indication that there was laughter somewhere between {pause} two words {vocalsound} I think that 's sufficient ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Good . Oh !\nGrad A: Against {disfmarker} they could do forced alignment .\nPostdoc F: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: because actually the recognition of laughter once you kn um {disfmarker} you know , is pretty good .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD B: So as long as you can stick a {disfmarker} you know , a t a tag in there that {disfmarker} that indicates that there was laughter ,\nGrad A: Oh , I didn't know that .\nPhD B: that would probably be , uh , sufficient to train models .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nGrad A: That would be a really interesting {pause} prosodic feature ,\nPostdoc F: Then {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And let me ask y and I gotta ask you one thing about that .\nGrad A: when {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Hmm .\nPostdoc F: So , um , if they laugh between two words , you {disfmarker} you 'd get it in between the two words .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Right .\nPostdoc F: But if they laugh across three or four words you {disfmarker} you get it after those four words . Does that matter ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: Well , the thing that you {disfmarker} is hard to deal with is whe {vocalsound} when they speak while laughing . Um , and that 's , uh {disfmarker} I don't think that we can do very well with that .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD B: But , um , that 's not as frequent as just laughing between speaking ,\nPostdoc F: OK .\nGrad A: So are {disfmarker} do you treat breath and laughter as phonetically , or as word models , or what ?\n",
      "PhD B: so {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Uh is it ?\nPhD D: Huh . I {disfmarker} I think it 's frequent in {disfmarker} in the meeting .\nPostdoc F: I think he 's right . Yeah .\nPhD B: We tried both . Uh , currently , um , we use special words . There was a {disfmarker} there 's actually a word for {disfmarker} uh , it 's not just breathing but all kinds of mouth {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Mouth stuff ?\n",
      "PhD B: uh , mouth {disfmarker} mouth stuff . And then laughter is a {disfmarker} is a special word .\nGrad A: How would we do that with the hybrid system ?\nProfessor G: Same thing .\nGrad A: So train a phone {pause} in the neural net ?\nPhD B: Same thing ? Yeah . Yeah . You ha Oh . And each of these words has a dedicated phone .\nProfessor G: No {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Oh , it does ?\n",
      "PhD B: So the {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the mouth noise , uh , word has just a single phone , um , that is for that .\nGrad A: Right . So in the hybrid system we could train the net with a laughter phone and a breath sound phone .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's always the same thing .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: Right ? I mean , you could {disfmarker} you could say well , let {disfmarker}  we now think that laughter should have three sub sub {vocalsound} sub - units in the {disfmarker} the three states , uh {disfmarker} different states .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: And then you would have three {disfmarker} I mean , you know , eh , eh , it 's u\nGrad A: Do whatever you want .\n",
      "PhD B: And the {disfmarker} the pronun the pronunciations {disfmarker} the pronunciations are l are somewhat non - standard .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD D: No .\nPhD B: They actually are {disfmarker} uh , it 's just a single , s uh , you know , a single phone in the pronunciation , but it has a self - loop on it , so it can {disfmarker}\nGrad A: To {pause} go on forever ?\nPhD B: r can go on forever .\n",
      "Grad A: And how do you handle it in the language model ?\nPhD B: It 's just a {disfmarker} it 's just a word .\nGrad A: It 's just a word in the language model .\nPhD B: We train it like any other word .\nGrad A: Cool .\nPhD B: Yeah . We also tried , {vocalsound} um , absorbing these {disfmarker} uh , both laughter and {disfmarker} and actually also noise , and , um {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: Yes . OK . Anyway . We also tried absorbing that into the pause model {disfmarker} I mean , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the model that {disfmarker} that matches the stuff between words .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And , um , it didn't work as well . So .\nGrad A: Huh . OK .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Can you hand me your digit form ?\nPhD B: Sorry .\nGrad A: I just wanna mark that you did not read digits .\nProfessor G: OK . Say hi for me .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Good . You {disfmarker} you did get me to thinking about {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm not really sure which is more frequent , whether f f laughing {disfmarker} I think it may be an individual thing . Some people are more prone to laughing when they 're speaking .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nGrad A: I was noticing that with Dan in the one that we , uh {disfmarker} we hand tran hand - segmented ,\nProfessor G: Yeah . I think {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: But I can't {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: that {disfmarker} th he has these little chuckles as he talks .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . OK .\nProfessor G: I 'm sure it 's very individual . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} one thing that c that we 're not doing , of course , is we 're not claiming to , uh , get {disfmarker} be getting a representation of mankind in these recordings . We have {vocalsound} this very , very tiny sample of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Speech researchers ?\nProfessor G: Uh , yeah . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , r right .\nPhD D: Speech research .\nProfessor G: So , uh , who knows . Uh {disfmarker} Yeah . Why don why don't we just {disfmarker} since we 're on this vein , why don't we just continue with , uh , what you were gonna say about the transcriptions\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: and {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: Um , um , the {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm really very for I 'm extremely fortunate with the people who , uh , applied and who are transcribing for us . They {vocalsound} are , um , um , uh really perceptive and very , um {disfmarker} and I 'm not just saying that cuz they might be hearing this .\nGrad A: Cuz they 're gonna be transcribing it in a few days .\nPostdoc F: No , they 're super . They 're {disfmarker} the they {disfmarker} very quick .\n",
      "PhD E: OK . Turn the mikes off and let 's talk .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , I know . I am {disfmarker} I 'm serious . They 're just super . So I , um , e you know , I {disfmarker} I brought them in and , um , trained them in pairs because I think people can raise questions {disfmarker}\nGrad A: That 's a good idea .\n",
      "Postdoc F: you know , i i the they think about different things and they think of different {disfmarker} and um , I trained them to , uh , f on about a minute or two of the one that was already transcribed . This also gives me a sense of {disfmarker} You know , I can {disfmarker} I can use that later , with reference to inter - coder reliability kind of issues . But the main thing was to get them used to the conventions and , {vocalsound} you know , the idea of the {disfmarker} th th the size of the unit versus how long it takes to play it back so these {disfmarker} th sort of calibration issues . And then , um , I just set them loose and they 're {disfmarker} they all have e a already background in using computers . They 're , um {disfmarker} they 're trained in linguistics .\n",
      "Grad A: Good . Oh , no . Is that good or bad ?\nPostdoc F: They got {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc F: Well , they they 're very perce they 'll {disfmarker} So one of them said \" well , you know , he really said \" n \" , not really \" and \" ,\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: so what {vocalsound} {disfmarker} what should I do with that ? \"\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: And I said , \" well for our purposes ,\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I do have a convention . If it 's an {disfmarker} a noncanonical p \" That one , I think we {disfmarker} you know , with Eric 's work , I sort of figure we {disfmarker} we can just treat that as a variant . But I told them if {disfmarker} if there 's an obvious speech error , uh , like I said in one thing ,\nProfessor G: OK . Yes .\n",
      "Postdoc F: and I gave my {disfmarker} my example , like I said , \" microfon \" {pause} in instead of \" microphone \" . Didn't bother {disfmarker} I knew it when I said it . I remember s thinking \" oh , that 's not correctly pronounced \" . But it {disfmarker} but I thought {vocalsound} it 's not worth fixing cuz often when you 're speaking everybody knows what {disfmarker} what you mean .\nGrad A: You 'll self - repair . Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: But I have a convention that if it 's obviously a noncanonical pronunciation {disfmarker} a speech error with {disfmarker} you know , wi within the realm of resolution that you can tell in this native English {disfmarker} American English speaker , you know that I didn't mean to say \" microfon . \" Then you 'd put a little tick at the beginning of the word ,\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: and that just signals that , um , this is not standard , and then in curly brackets \" pron {nonvocalsound} error \" . And , um , and other than that , it 's w word level . But , you know , the fact that they noticed , you know , the \" nnn \" . \" He said \" nnn \" , not \" and \" . What shall I do with that ? \" I mean , they 're very perceptive . And {disfmarker} and s several of them are trained in IPA . C they really could do phonetic transcription if {disfmarker} if we wanted them to .\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm . Right . Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Well , you know , it might be something we 'd wanna do with some , uh , s small subset {pause} of the whole thing .\nGrad A: Hmm . Where were they when {pause} we needed them ?\nPostdoc F: I think {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: We certainly wouldn't wanna do it with everything .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And I 'm also thinking these people are a terrific pool . I mean , if , uh {disfmarker} so I {disfmarker} I told them that , um , we don't know if this will continue past the end of the month\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc F: and I also {disfmarker} m I think they know that the data p source is limited and I may not be able to keep them employed till the end of the month even , although I hope to .\nProfessor G: The other thing we could do , actually , uh , is , uh , use them for a more detailed analysis of the overlaps .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And {disfmarker} Oh , that 'd be so super . They would be so {disfmarker} s so terrific .\nGrad A: I mean , this was something that we were talking about .\nProfessor G: Right ?\nGrad A: We could get a very detailed overlap if they were willing to transcribe each meeting four or five times . Right ? One for each participant . So they could by hand {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Well , that 's one way to do it .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor G: But I 've been saying the other thing is just go through it for the overlaps .\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm , that 's right .\nProfessor G: Right ?\nPostdoc F: And with the right in interface {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Given that y and {disfmarker} and do {disfmarker} so instead of doing phonetic , uh , uh , transcription for the whole thing ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: which {vocalsound} we know from the {disfmarker} Steve 's experience with the Switchboard transcription is , you know , very , very time - consuming . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and you know , it took them I don't know how many months to do {disfmarker} to get four hours . And so {vocalsound} that hasn't been really our focus . Uh , we can consider it . But , I mean , the other thing is since we 've been spending so much time thinking about overlaps is {disfmarker} is maybe get a much more detailed analysis of the overlaps .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: But anyway , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm open to c our consideration .\nPostdoc F: That 'd be great .\nPhD D: Hmm .\nProfessor G: I {disfmarker} I don't wanna say that by fiat .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor G: I 'm open to every consideration of {vocalsound} what are some other kinds of detailed analysis that would be most useful .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: And , uh , uh ,\nPhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think {vocalsound} this year we {disfmarker} we actually , uh , can do it .\nPostdoc F: Oh , wonderful .\nProfessor G: It 's a {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} due to @ @ {comment} variations in funding we have {disfmarker} we seem to be doing , uh , very well on m money for this {disfmarker} this year , and {vocalsound} next year we may have {disfmarker} have much less .\n",
      "Grad A: Is {disfmarker} you mean two thousand one ?\nProfessor G: So I don't wanna hire a {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Calendar year or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor G: Uh , I mean , calendar year two thousand one .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor G: Yeah . So it 's {disfmarker} uh , it 's {disfmarker} we don't wanna hire a bunch of people , a long - term staff ,\nGrad A: Full - time . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: because {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the funding that we 've gotten is sort of a big chunk for this year . But {vocalsound} having {pause} temporary people doing some specific thing that we need is actually a perfect match to that kind of , uh , funding .\nPostdoc F: Wonderful .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: And then school will start in {disfmarker} in the sixt on the sixteenth .\nProfessor G: So .\nPostdoc F: Some of them will have to cut back their hours at that point .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Are they working full - time now , or {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc F: But {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} {vocalsound} Some of them are .\nGrad A: Wow .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah . Well , why do I wouldn't say forty - hour weeks . No . But what I mean is {disfmarker} Oh , I shouldn't say it that way because {nonvocalsound} that does sound like forty - hour weeks . No . I th I {disfmarker} I would say they 're probably {nonvocalsound} {disfmarker} they don't have o they don't have other things that are taking away their time .\nGrad A: I don't see how someone could do forty hours a week on transcription .\nPhD E: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: But {nonvocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} you can't .\nProfessor G: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: No . You 're right . It 's {disfmarker} i it would be too taxing . But , um , they 're putting {nonvocalsound} in a lot of {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: And {disfmarker} and I checked them over .\nProfessor G: I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I haven't checked them all , but {pause} just spot - checking . They 're fantastic .\nGrad A: I think it would be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: I remember when we were transcribing BeRP , uh , uh , {vocalsound} uh , Ron Kay , uh , volunteered to {disfmarker} to do some of that . And , he was {disfmarker} the first {disfmarker} first stuff he did was transcribing Chuck . And he 's saying \" You {disfmarker} you know , I always thought Chuck spoke really well . \"\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah . Yeah . Well , you know , and I also thought , y Liz has this , eh , you know , and I do also , this {disfmarker} this interest in the types of overlaps that are involved . These people would be {nonvocalsound} great choices for doing coding of that type if we wanted ,\nGrad A: We 'd have to mark them .\nPostdoc F: or whatever . So , um .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: I think it would also be interesting to have , uh , a couple of the meetings have more than one transcriber do ,\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nGrad A: cuz I 'm curious about inter - annotator agreement .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: OK . Yeah . Th - that 'd be {disfmarker} I think that 's a {disfmarker} a good idea .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: You know , there 's also , the e In my mind , I think A An - Andreas was {pause} leading to this topic , the idea that , um , {vocalsound} we haven't yet seen the {disfmarker} the type of transcript that we get from IBM , and it may just be , you know , pristine . But on the other hand , given the lesser interface {disfmarker} Cuz this is , you know {disfmarker} we 've got a good interface , we 've got great headphones , m um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: It could be that they will uh {disfmarker} theirs will end up being a kind of fir first pass or something .\nPostdoc F: Something like that .\nProfessor G: Maybe an elaborate one , cuz again they probably are gonna do these alignments , which will also clear things up .\nPostdoc F: That 's {disfmarker} that 's true . Al - although you have to s Don't you have to start with a close enough approximation {nonvocalsound} of the {disfmarker} of the verbal part {nonvocalsound} to be able to {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Professor G: Well , tha that 's {disfmarker} that 's debatable .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: Right ? I mean , so the {disfmarker} so the argument is that if your statistical system is good {vocalsound} it will in fact , uh , clean things up .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: Right ? So it it 's got its own objective criterion .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And , uh , so in principle you could start up with something that was kind of rough {disfmarker} I mean , to give an example of , um , something we used to do , uh , at one point , uh , back {disfmarker} back when Chuck was here in early times , is we would take , um , {vocalsound} da take a word and , uh , have a canonical pronunciation and , uh , if there was five phones in a word , {vocalsound} you 'd break up the word , {vocalsound} uh , into five equal - length pieces which is completely gross .\n",
      "Grad A: Wrong .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Right ? I mean , th the timing is off {pause} all over the place in just about any word .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm . OK .\nProfessor G: But it 's O K . You start off with that and the statistical system then aligns things , and eventually you get something that doesn't really look too bad .\nPostdoc F: Oh , excellent . OK .\n",
      "Professor G: So {disfmarker} so I think using a {disfmarker} a good {pause} aligner , um , actually can {disfmarker} can help a lot . Um . {vocalsound} But , uh , you know , they both help each other . If you have a {disfmarker} if you have a better starting point , then it helps the aligner . If you have a good alignment , it helps the , uh , th the human in {disfmarker} in taking less time to correct things .\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: Excellent . I guess there 's another aspect , too , and I don't know {disfmarker} uh , this {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} very possibly a different , uh , topic . But , {nonvocalsound} uh , just let me say {pause} with reference to this idea of , um , {vocalsound} higher - order organization within meetings . So like in a {disfmarker} you know , the topics that are covered during a meeting with reference to the other , uh , uses of the data ,\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: so being able to {pause} find where so - and - so talked about such - and - such , then , um , um {disfmarker} e I mean , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I did sort of a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a rough {pause} pass {nonvocalsound} on encoding , like , episode - like level things on the , uh , transcribed meeting {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: already transcribed meeting . And I don't know if , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: where {nonvocalsound} that {disfmarker} i if that 's something that we wanna do with each meeting , sort of like a , um {disfmarker} it 's like a manifest , when you get a box full of stuff , or {disfmarker} or if that 's , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I mean , i I {disfmarker} I don't know what uh , level of detail would be most useful . I don't know i if that 's something that {pause} I should do when I look over it , or if we want someone else to do , or whatever .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: But this issue of the contents of the meeting in an outline form . OK .\nProfessor G: Yeah . Meaning really isn't my thing . Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: I think it just {disfmarker} whoever is interested can do that . I mean , so if someone wants to use that data {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: OK .\nProfessor G: We 're running a little short here .\nPostdoc F: That 's fine .\nProfessor G: We , uh , uh , cou trying to {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: I 'm finished .\nProfessor G: eh , was {disfmarker} p Well , you know , the thing I 'm concerned about is we wanted to do these digits\nPostdoc F: Oh , yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: and {disfmarker} and I haven't heard , uh , from Jose yet .\nPostdoc F: Oh , yes .\nPhD D: OK . What do you want ?\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker}\nGrad A: We could skip the digits .\nProfessor G: Uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: We don't have to read digits each time .\nProfessor G: Uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it {disfmarker} you know , another {disfmarker} another bunch of digits . More data is good .\n",
      "Grad A: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah . Sure .\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker} so I 'd like to do that . But I think , do you , maybe , eh {disfmarker} ? Did you prepare some whole thing you wanted us just to see ?\nPhD D: Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's prepared .\nProfessor G: Or what was that ? Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Oh , k Sorry .\nProfessor G: Uh , how long a {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's fast , because , uh , I have the results , eh , of the study of different energy without the law length . Eh , um , eh , in the {disfmarker} in the measurement , uh , the average , uh , dividing by the {disfmarker} by the , um , variance . Um , I {disfmarker} th i\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: the other , uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the last w uh , meeting {disfmarker} eh , I don't know if you remain we have problem to {disfmarker} with the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with {disfmarker} with the parameter {disfmarker} with the representations of parameter , because the {disfmarker} the valleys and the peaks in the signal , eh , look like , eh , it doesn't follow to the {disfmarker} to the energy in the signal .\nProfessor G: Yes . Right .\n",
      "PhD D: And it was a problem , uh , with the scale .\nGrad A: With what ?\nPhD D: Eh , the scale .\nPostdoc F: Scale .\nGrad A: Scale .\nPhD D: Eh , and I {disfmarker} I change the scale and we can see the {disfmarker} the variance .\nProfessor G: OK . But the bottom line is it 's still not , uh , separating out very well .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: Right ?\nPhD D: The distribution {disfmarker} the distribution is {disfmarker} is similar .\n",
      "Professor G: OK . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's enough then . OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: No , I mean , that there 's no point in going through all of that if that 's the bottom line , really .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: So , I {disfmarker} I think we have to start {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , there there 's two suggestions , really , which is , uh {disfmarker} what we said before is that ,\n",
      "PhD D: Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor G: um , it looks like , at least that you haven't found an obvious way to normalize so that the energy is anything like a reliable , uh , indicator of the overlap .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: Um , I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm still {pause} a little f think that 's a little funny . These things l @ @ seems like there should be ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but you don't want to keep , uh {disfmarker} keep knocking at it if it 's {disfmarker} if you 're not getting any {disfmarker} any result with that . But , I mean , the other things that we talked about is , uh , {vocalsound} pitch - related things and harmonicity - related things ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: so {disfmarker} which we thought also should be some kind of a reasonable indicator . Um {disfmarker} But , uh , a completely different tack on it wou is the one that was suggested , uh , by your colleagues in Spain ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: which is to say , don't worry so much about the , uh , features .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: That is to say , use , you know , as {disfmarker} as you 're doing with the speech , uh , nonspeech , use some very general features .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And , uh , then , uh , look at it more from the aspect of modeling .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: You know , have a {disfmarker} have a couple Markov models and {disfmarker} and , uh , try to indi try to determine , you know , w when is th when are you in an overlap , when are you not in an overlap .\nPhD D: Hmm .\nProfessor G: And let the , uh , uh , statistical system {pause} determine what 's the right way to look at the data .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: I {disfmarker} I , um , I think it would be interesting to find individual features and put them together . I think that you 'd end up with a better system overall .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: But given the limitation in time {vocalsound} and given the fact that Javier 's system already exists {pause} doing this sort of thing ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: uh , but , uh , its main limitation is that , again , it 's only looking at silences which would {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: maybe that 's a better place to go .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: So .\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that , eh , the possibility , eh , can be that , eh , Thilo , eh , working , eh , with a new class , not only , eh , nonspeech and speech , but , eh , in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the speech class ,\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: dividing , eh , speech , eh , of {disfmarker} from a speaker and overlapping , to try {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to do , eh , eh , a fast {disfmarker} a fast , eh , {vocalsound} experiment to {disfmarker} to prove that , nnn , this fea eh , general feature , {vocalsound} eh , can solve the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the problem ,\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD D: and wh what {disfmarker} nnn , how far is {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Maybe . Yeah .\nPhD D: And , I {disfmarker} I have prepared the {disfmarker} the pitch tracker now .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And I hope the {disfmarker} the next week I will have , eh , some results and we {disfmarker} we will show {disfmarker} we will see , eh , the {disfmarker} the parameter {disfmarker} the pitch , {vocalsound} eh , tracking in {disfmarker} with the program .\nProfessor G: I see .\n",
      "PhD D: And , nnn , nnn {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Ha - h have you ever looked at the , uh , uh {disfmarker} Javier 's , uh , speech segmenter ?\nPhD C: No . No .\nPhD D: No .\nProfessor G: Oh . Maybe m you could , you kn uh show Thilo that .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah . Sure .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: Cuz again the idea is there {disfmarker} the limitation there again was that he was {disfmarker} he was only using it to look at silence as a {disfmarker} as a {disfmarker} as a {disfmarker} as a p putative split point between speakers .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: But if you included , uh , broadened classes then {pause} in principle maybe you can {pause} cover the overlap cases .\nPhD C: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah , but I 'm not too sure if {disfmarker} if we can {pause} really represent {vocalsound} overlap with {disfmarker} with the s {pause} detector I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I used up to now ,\nPhD D: Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor G: Uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: I think with {disfmarker}\nPhD C: the {disfmarker} to speech - nonspeech as {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: That 's right . But I think Javier 's {disfmarker}\nPhD C: it 's only speech or it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's nonspeech .\nPhD D: Ah . Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: I think Javier 's might be able to .\nPhD C: So .\nProfessor G: N n\nGrad A: It doesn't have the same Gaus - uh , H M M modeling ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad A: which is I think a drawback .\nPhD C: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: But , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Well , it 's {disfmarker} sort of has a simple one .\nPhD D: Mmm , yeah .\nGrad A: Does it ?\nProfessor G: Right ? It 's {disfmarker} it 's just {disfmarker} it 's just a {disfmarker} isn't it just a Gaussian\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: for each {disfmarker} ?\nGrad A: Yeah . And then {pause} he ch you choose optimal splitting .\nPhD D: Hmm .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . Oh , it doesn't have {disfmarker} it doesn't have any temporal , uh {disfmarker} ?\nGrad A: Maybe I 'm misremembering , but I did not think it had a Markov {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: I thought it {disfmarker} Yeah . I gues I guess I don't remember either . Uh . It 's been a while .\nPhD C: Yeah . Uh , I could have a look at it .\nPhD D: Javier {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Uh .\nPhD C: So .\n",
      "PhD D: You mean Ja - eh , eh , Javier program ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: No , Javier di doesn't worked with , uh , a Markov {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah , I didn't think so .\nPhD D: He on only train {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Oh , OK . So he 's just {disfmarker} he just computes a Gaussian over potential {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD D: Yeah . It was only Gaussian .\nProfessor G: Oh , I see . I see .\n",
      "Grad A: And so I {disfmarker} I think it would work fine for detecting overlap .\nPhD D: This is the idea .\nProfessor G: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nGrad A: It 's just , uh , that i it {disfmarker} he has the two - pass issue that {disfmarker} What he does is , as a first pass he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} p he does , um , a guess at where the divisions might be and he overestimates . And that 's just a data reduction step , so that you 're not trying at every time interval .\n",
      "PhD C: OK .\nGrad A: And so those are the putative {pause} places where he tries .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah . OK .\nGrad A: And right now he 's doing that with silence and that doesn't work with the Meeting Recorder . So if we used another method to get the first pass , I think it would probably work .\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah . Sure . Yeah . Yeah , OK .\nGrad A: It 's a good method . As long as the len as long the segments are long enough .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: That 's the other problem .\n",
      "PhD C: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: O - k OK . So let me go back to what you had , though .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Um .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: The other thing one could do is {disfmarker} Couldn't {disfmarker} I mean , it 's {disfmarker} So you have two categories\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: and you have Markov models for each . Couldn't you have a third category ? So you have , uh {disfmarker} you have , {vocalsound} uh , nonspeech , single - person speech , and multiple - person speech ?\nPostdoc F: He has this on his board actually . Don't you have , like those {disfmarker} those several different {vocalsound} categories on the board ?\nProfessor G: Right ? And then you have a Markov model for each ?\n",
      "PhD C: Um {disfmarker} I 'm not sure . I {disfmarker} I thought about , uh , adding , uh , uh , another class too . But it 's not too easy , I think , the {disfmarker} the transition between the different class , to model them in {disfmarker} in the system I have now . But it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it could be possible , I think ,\nProfessor G: I see . I see .\nPhD C: in principle .\nProfessor G: Yeah , I mean , I {disfmarker} This is all pretty gross .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: I mean , the {disfmarker} th the reason why , uh , I was suggesting originally that we look at features is because I thought , well , we 're doing something we haven't done before ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: we should at least look at the space and understand {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: It seems like if two people {disfmarker} two or more people talk at once , it should get louder ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: uh , and , uh , uh , there should be some discontinuity in pitch contours ,\nPhD C: I had the impression .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: and , uh , there should overall be a , um , smaller proportion of the total energy that is explained by any particular harmonic {pause} sequence in the spectrum .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: So those are all things that should be there .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: So far , um , uh , Jose has {disfmarker} has been {disfmarker} By the way , I was told I should be calling you Pepe , but {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: by your friends , but Anyway ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: um , uh , the {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} has , uh , been exploring , uh , e largely the energy issue and , um , as with a lot of things , it is not {disfmarker} uh , like this , it 's not as simple as it sounds .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And then there 's , you know {disfmarker} Is it energy ? Is it log energy ? Is it LPC residual energy ? Is it {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} is it , uh , delta of those things ? Uh , what is it no Obviously , just a simple number {disfmarker} {vocalsound} absolute number isn't gonna work . So {vocalsound} it should be with {disfmarker} compared to what ? Should there be a long window for the {vocalsound} normalizing factor and a short window for what you 're looking at ?\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Or , you know , how b short should they be ? So ,\nPhD D: Hmm .\nProfessor G: th he 's been playing around with a lot of these different things and {disfmarker} and so far at least has not come up with {vocalsound} any combination that really gave you an indicator .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: So I {disfmarker} I still have a hunch that there 's {disfmarker} it 's in there some place , but it may be {disfmarker} given that you have a limited time here , it {disfmarker} it just may not be the best thing to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to focus on for the remaining of it .\nPhD D: Yeah . To overrule , yeah .\nProfessor G: So pitch - related and harmonic - related , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {pause} somewhat more hopeful for it .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: But it seems like if we just wanna get something to work ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: that , uh , their suggestion of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} Th - they were suggesting going to Markov models , uh , but in addition there 's an expansion of what Javier did . And one of those things , looking at the statistical component ,\nPhD D: One .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: even if the features that you give it are maybe not ideal for it , it 's just sort of this general filter bank\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor G: or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or cepstrum or something , um {disfmarker} Eee {vocalsound} it 's in there somewhere probably .\n",
      "PhD D: But , eh , what did you think about the possibility of using the Javier software ? Eh , I mean , the , uh {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the BIC criterion , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} t to train the {disfmarker} the Gaussian , eh , using the {disfmarker} the mark , eh , by hand , eh , eh , to distinguish be mmm , to train overlapping zone and speech zone . I mean , eh , {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that an interesting , eh , experiment , eh , could be , th eh , to prove that , mmm , if s we suppose that , eh , the {disfmarker} the first step {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean , the {disfmarker} the classifier what were the classifier from Javier or classifier from Thilo ? W What happen with the second step ? I {disfmarker} I mean , what {disfmarker} what happen with the , eh {disfmarker} the , uh , clu the , uh {disfmarker} the clu the clustering process ?\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Using the {disfmarker} the Gaussian .\nGrad A: You mean Javier 's ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: What do you mean ?\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I mean , that is {disfmarker} is enough {disfmarker} is enough , eh , to work well , eh , to , eh , separate or to distinguish , eh , between overlapping zone and , eh , speaker zone ? Because th {vocalsound} if {disfmarker} if we {disfmarker} if we , eh , nnn , develop an classifier {disfmarker} and the second step doesn't work {pause} well , eh , we have {pause} another problem .\n",
      "Grad A: I {disfmarker} Yeah . I had tried doing it by hand at one point with a very short sample ,\nPhD D: N\nGrad A: and it worked pretty well , but I haven't worked with it a lot . So what I d I d I took a hand - segmented sample\nPhD D: Nnn , yeah .\nGrad A: and I added ten times the amount of numbers at random ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: and it did pick out pretty good boundaries .\nPhD D: Oh . Yeah . But is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: But this was just very anecdotal sort of thing .\nPhD D: But it 's possible with my segmentation by hand {pause} that we have information about the {disfmarker} the overlapping ,\nGrad A: Right . So if we {disfmarker} if we fed the hand - segmentation to Javier 's and it doesn't work , then we know something 's wrong .\nPhD D: uh {disfmarker} Yeah . The {disfmarker} N n Yeah . No . The demonstration by hand . Segmentation by hand I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think is the fast experiment .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah . I think that 's probably worthwhile doing .\nPhD D: Uh , we can prove that the {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nGrad A: Whether it 'll work or not .\nPhD D: this kind o emph emphasises parameter and Gaussian {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yep . Y do you know where his software is ? Have you used it at all ?\nPhD D: I yeah have . I have .\nGrad A: OK .\nPhD D: \n"
    ],
    "length": 22687,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 56,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The participants went over the results of the most recent experiments, discussing future directions to take. Adding in more languages was still decreasing model performance. The best network consisted of the TIMIT and noise. The team thought that they should try to reduce their dependence on noise in the data. The Professor outlined how they could continue their experimentation.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor D: OK .\nPhD A: Mike . Mike - one ?\nPhD B: Ah .\nProfessor D: We 're on ? Yes , please . I mean , we 're testing noise robustness but let 's not get silly . OK , so , uh , you 've got some , uh , Xerox things to pass out ?\nPhD A: Yeah ,\nProfessor D: That are {disfmarker}\nPhD A: um .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah , I 'm sorry for the table , but as it grows in size , uh , it .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh , so for th the last column we use our imagination . OK .\nPhD B: Ah , yeah .\nProfessor D: Ah .\nPhD A: Uh , yeah .\nPhD B: Uh , do you want @ @ .\nProfessor D: This one 's nice , though . This has nice big font .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Let 's see . Yeah . Chop !\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD A: So\nProfessor D: When you get older you have these different perspectives . I mean , lowering the word hour rate is fine , but having big font !\nPhD A: Next time we will put colors or something .\n",
      "Professor D: That 's what 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh .\nProfessor D: Yeah . It 's mostly big font . OK .\nPhD A: OK , s so there is kind of summary of what has been done {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Uh {disfmarker} Go ahead .\nPhD A: It 's this . Summary of experiments since , well , since last week\nProfessor D: Oh . OK .\n",
      "PhD A: and also since the {disfmarker} we 've started to run {disfmarker} work on this . Um . {pause} So since last week we 've started to fill the column with um {vocalsound} uh features w with nets trained on PLP with on - line normalization but with delta also , because the column was not completely {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . \nPhD A: well , it 's still not completely filled ,\nProfessor D: \n",
      "PhD A: but {pause} we have more results to compare with network using without PLP and {pause} finally , hhh , {comment} um {pause} ehhh {comment} PL - uh delta seems very important . Uh {pause} I don't know . If you take um , let 's say , anyway Aurora - two - B , so , the next {disfmarker} t the second , uh , part of the table ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: uh {pause} when we use the large training set using French , Spanish , and English , you have one hundred and six without delta and eighty - nine with the delta .\nProfessor D: a And again all of these numbers are with a hundred percent being , uh , the baseline performance ,\nPhD A: Yeah , on the baseline , yeah . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: but with a mel cepstra system going straight into the HTK ?\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah . So now we see that the gap between the different training set is much {pause} uh uh much smaller\nProfessor D: Yes .\n",
      "PhD A: um {disfmarker}\nGrad C: It 's out of the way .\nPhD A: But , actually , um , for English training on TIMIT is still better than the other languages . And  Mmm , {pause} Yeah . And f also for Italian , actually . If you take the second set of experiment for Italian , so , the mismatched condition ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: um {pause} when we use the training on TIMIT so , it 's multi - English , we have a ninety - one number ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: and training with other languages is a little bit worse .\nProfessor D: Um {disfmarker} Oh , I see . Down near the bottom of this sheet .\nPhD A: So ,\nProfessor D: Uh , {comment} {pause} yes .\nPhD A: yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD A: And , yeah , and here the gap is still more important between using delta and not using delta . If y if I take the training s the large training set , it 's {disfmarker} we have one hundred and seventy - two ,\nProfessor D: Yes .\nPhD A: and one hundred and four when we use delta .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh . {pause} Even if the contexts used is quite the same ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: because without delta we use seventeenths {disfmarker} seventeen frames . Uh . Yeah , um , so the second point is that we have no single cross - language experiments , uh , that we did not have last week . Uh , so this is training the net on French only , or on English only , and testing on Italian .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And training the net on French only and Spanish only and testing on , uh TI - digits .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And , fff {comment} um , yeah . What we see is that these nets are not as good , except for the multi - English , which is always one of the best . Yeah , then we started to work on a large dat database containing , uh , sentences from the French , from the Spanish , from the TIMIT , from SPINE , uh from {comment} uh English digits , and from Italian digits . So this is the {disfmarker} another line {disfmarker} another set of lines in the table . Uh , @ @ with SPINE\n",
      "Professor D: Ah , yes . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: and {pause} uh , actually we did this before knowing the result of all the data , uh , so we have to to redo the uh {disfmarker} the experiment training the net with , uh PLP , but with delta . But\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: um this {disfmarker} this net performed quite well . Well , it 's {disfmarker} it 's better than the net using French , Spanish , and English only . Uh . So , uh , yeah . We have also started feature combination experiments . Uh many experiments using features and net outputs together . And this is {disfmarker} The results are on the other document . Uh , we can discuss this after , perhaps {disfmarker} well , just , @ @ . Yeah , so basically there are four {disfmarker} four kind of systems . The first one , yeah , is combining , um , two feature streams , uh using {disfmarker} and each feature stream has its own MPL . So it 's the {disfmarker} kind of similar to the tandem that was proposed for the first . The multi - stream tandem for the first proposal . The second is using features and KLT transformed MLP outputs . And the third one is to u use a single KLT trans transform features as well as MLP outputs . Um , yeah . Mmm . You know you can {disfmarker} you can comment these results ,\n",
      "PhD B: Yes , I can s I would like to say that , for example , um , mmm , if we doesn't use the delta - delta , uh we have an improve when we use s some combination . But when\nPhD A: Yeah , we ju just to be clear , the numbers here are uh recognition accuracy .\nPhD B: w Yeah , this {disfmarker} Yeah , this number recognition acc\nPhD A: So it 's not the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Again we switch to another {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Yes , and the baseline {disfmarker} the baseline have {disfmarker} i is eighty - two .\nProfessor D: Baseline is eighty - two .\nPhD B: Yeah\nPhD A: So it 's experiment only on the Italian mismatched for the moment for this .\nProfessor D: Uh , this is Italian mismatched .\nPhD A: Um .\nPhD B: Yeah , by the moment .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: And first in the experiment - one I {disfmarker} I do {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I use different MLP ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and is obviously that the multi - English MLP is the better . Um . for the ne {disfmarker} rest of experiment I use multi - English , only multi - English . And I try to combine different type of feature , but the result is that the MSG - three feature doesn't work for the Italian database because never help to increase the accuracy .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , eh , actually , if w we look at the table , the huge table , um , we see that for TI - digits MSG perform as well as the PLP ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: but this is not the case for Italian what {disfmarker} where the error rate is c is almost uh twice the error rate of PLP .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: So , um {vocalsound} uh , well , I don't think this is a bug but this {disfmarker} this is something in {disfmarker} probably in the MSG um process that uh I don't know what exactly . Perhaps the fact that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} there 's no low - pass filter , well , or no pre - emp pre - emphasis filter and that there is some DC offset in the Italian , or , well , something simple like that . But {disfmarker} that we need to sort out if want to uh get improvement by combining PLP and MSG\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: because for the moment MSG do doesn't bring much information .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And as Carmen said , if we combine the two , we have the result , basically , of PLP .\nProfessor D: I Um , the uh , baseline system {disfmarker} when you said the baseline system was uh , uh eighty - two percent , that was trained on what and tested on what ? That was , uh Italian mismatched d uh , uh , digits , uh , is the testing ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: and the training is Italian digits ?\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So the \" mismatch \" just refers to the noise and {disfmarker} and , uh microphone and so forth ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: right ? So , um did we have {disfmarker} So would that then correspond to the first line here of where the training is {disfmarker} is the uh Italian digits ?\nPhD B: The train the training of the HTK ?\nProfessor D: The {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yes . Ah yes !\nProfessor D: Yes .\nPhD B: This h Yes . Th - Yes .\n",
      "Professor D: Yes . Training of the net ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: yeah . So , um {disfmarker} So what that says is that in a matched condition , {vocalsound} we end up with a fair amount worse putting in the uh PLP . Now w would {disfmarker} do we have a number , I suppose for the matched {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't mean matched , but uh use of Italian {disfmarker} training in Italian digits for PLP only ?\nPhD B: Uh {pause} yes ?\n",
      "PhD A: Uh {pause} yeah , so this is {disfmarker} basically this is in the table . Uh {pause} so the number is fifty - two ,\nPhD B: Another table .\nPhD A: uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Fifty - two percent .\nPhD A: Fift - So {disfmarker} No , it 's {disfmarker} it 's the {disfmarker}\nPhD B: No .\nProfessor D: No , fifty - two percent of eighty - two ?\n",
      "PhD A: Of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of uh {pause} eighteen {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Eighty .\nPhD A: of eighteen .\nPhD B: Eighty .\nPhD A: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's error rate , basically .\nPhD B: It 's plus six .\nPhD A: It 's er error rate ratio . So {disfmarker} \nProfessor D: Oh this is accuracy ! \nPhD A: Uh , so we have nine {disfmarker} nine {disfmarker} let 's say ninety percent .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oy ! {comment} OK . Ninety .\nPhD A: Yeah . Um {comment} which is uh {comment} what we have also if use PLP and MSG together ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD A: eighty - nine point seven .\nProfessor D: OK , so even just PLP , uh , it is not , in the matched condition {disfmarker} Um I wonder if it 's a difference between PLP and mel cepstra , or whether it 's that the net half , for some reason , is not helping .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh . P - PLP and Mel cepstra give the same {disfmarker} same results .\nProfessor D: Same result pretty much ?\nPhD A: Well , we have these results . I don't know . It 's not {disfmarker} Do you have this result with PLP alone , {comment} j fee feeding HTK ?\nProfessor D: So , s\nPhD A: That {disfmarker} That 's what you mean ?\nPhD B: Yeah ,\nPhD A: Just PLP at the input of HTK .\n",
      "PhD B: yeah yeah yeah yeah , at the first {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah . So , PLP {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Eighty - eight point six .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Um , so adding MSG\nPhD A: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: um {disfmarker} Well , but that 's {disfmarker} yeah , that 's without the neural net ,\nPhD A: Yeah , that 's without the neural net\nProfessor D: right ?\n",
      "PhD A: and that 's the result basically that OGI has also with the MFCC with on - line normalization .\nProfessor D: But she had said eighty - two .\nPhD A: This is the {disfmarker} w well , but this is without on - line normalization .\nProfessor D: Right ? Oh , this {disfmarker} the eighty - two .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: \n",
      "PhD A: Eighty - two is the {disfmarker} it 's the Aurora baseline , so MFCC . Then we can use {disfmarker} well , OGI , they use MFCC {disfmarker} th the baseline MFCC plus on - line normalization\nProfessor D: Oh , I 'm sorry , I k I keep getting confused because this is accuracy .\nPhD A: Yeah , sorry . Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK . Alright .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Alright . So this is {disfmarker} I was thinking all this was worse . OK so this is all better\n",
      "PhD B: Yes , better .\nProfessor D: because eighty - nine is bigger than eighty - two .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm all better now . OK , go ahead .\nPhD A: So what happ what happens is that when we apply on - line normalization we jump to almost ninety percent .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Uh , when we apply a neural network , is the same . We j jump to ninety percent .\nPhD B: Nnn , we don't know exactly .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: And {disfmarker} And um {disfmarker} whatever the normalization , actually . If we use n neural network , even if the features are not correctly normalized , we jump to ninety percent . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: So we go from eighty - si eighty - eight point six to {disfmarker} to ninety , or something .\nPhD A: Well , ninety {disfmarker} No , I {disfmarker} I mean ninety It 's around eighty - nine , ninety , eighty - eight .\nProfessor D: Eighty - nine .\nPhD A: Well , there are minor {disfmarker} minor differences .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: And then adding the MSG does nothing , basically .\nPhD A: No .\nProfessor D: Yeah . OK .\nPhD A: Uh For Italian , yeah .\nProfessor D: For this case , right ?\nPhD A: Um .\nProfessor D: Alright . So , um {disfmarker} So actually , the answer for experiments with one is that adding MSG , if you {disfmarker} uh does not help in that case .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Um {disfmarker}\nPhD A:  But w Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: The other ones , we 'd have to look at it , but {disfmarker} And the multi - English , does uh {disfmarker} So if we think of this in error rates , we start off with , uh eighteen percent error rate , roughly .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Um {pause} and {pause} we uh almost , uh cut that in half by um putting in the on - line normalization and the neural net .\nPhD A: Yeah\nProfessor D: And the MSG doesn't however particularly affect things .\nPhD A: No .\n",
      "Professor D: And we cut off , I guess about twenty - five percent of the error . Uh {pause} no , not quite that , is it . Uh , two point six out of eighteen . About , um {pause} sixteen percent or something of the error , um , if we use multi - English instead of the matching condition .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Not matching condition , but uh , the uh , Italian training .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD B: We select these {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these tasks because it 's the more difficult .\nProfessor D: Yes , good . OK ? So then you 're assuming multi - English is closer to the kind of thing that you could use since you 're not gonna have matching , uh , data for the {disfmarker} uh for the new {disfmarker} for the other languages and so forth . Um , one qu thing is that , uh {disfmarker} I think I asked you this before , but I wanna double check . When you say \" ME \" in these other tests , that 's the multi - English ,\n",
      "PhD A: That 's {disfmarker} it 's a part {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: but it is not all of the multi - English , right ? It is some piece of {disfmarker} part of it .\nPhD A: Or , one million frames .\nProfessor D: And the multi - English is how much ?\nPhD B: You have here the information .\nPhD A: It 's one million and a half . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oh , so you used almost all You used two thirds of it ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: you think . So , it it 's still {disfmarker} it hurts you {disfmarker} seems to hurt you a fair amount to add in this French and Spanish .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: I wonder why Yeah . Uh .\nGrad C: Well Stephane was saying that they weren't hand - labeled ,\nPhD A: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad C: the French and the Spanish .\nPhD B: The Spanish . Maybe for that .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: It 's still {disfmarker} OK . Alright , go ahead . And then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Um . Mmm , with the experiment type - two , I {disfmarker} first I tried to to combine , nnn , some feature from the MLP and other feature {disfmarker} another feature .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And we s we can {disfmarker} first the feature are without delta and delta - delta , and we can see that in the situation , uh , the MSG - three , the same help nothing .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And then I do the same but with the delta and delta - delta {disfmarker} PLP delta and delta - delta . And they all p but they all put off the MLP is it without delta and delta - delta . And we have a l little bit less result than the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the baseline PLP with delta and delta - delta .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Maybe if {disfmarker} when we have the new {disfmarker} the new {pause} neural network trained with PLP delta and delta - delta , maybe the final result must be better . I don't know .\nPhD A: Actually , just to be some more {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Do This number , this eighty - seven point one number , has to be compared with the\nProfessor D: Yes , yeah , I mean it can't be compared with the other\nPhD A: Which number ?\n",
      "Professor D: cuz this is , uh {disfmarker} with multi - English , uh , training .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So you have to compare it with the one over that you 've got in a box , which is that , uh the eighty - four point six .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Right ?\nPhD A: Uh .\nProfessor D: So {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah , but I mean in this case for the eighty - seven point one we used MLP outputs for the PLP net\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: and straight features with delta - delta . And straight features with delta - delta gives you what 's on the first sheet .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Not t not\nPhD A: It 's eight eighty - eight point six .\nProfessor D: tr No . No . No .\nPhD B: Yes .\nProfessor D: Not trained with multi - English .\nPhD A: Uh , yeah , but th this is the second configuration .\nPhD B: No , but they {disfmarker} they feature @ @ without {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: So we use feature out uh , net outputs together with features . So yeah , this is not {disfmarker} perhaps not clear here but in this table , the first column is for MLP and the second for the features .\nProfessor D: Eh . {comment} Oh , I see . Ah . So you 're saying w so asking the question , \" What {disfmarker} what has adding the MLP done to improve over the ,\nPhD A: So , just {disfmarker} Yeah so , actually it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it decreased the {disfmarker} the accuracy .\n",
      "Professor D: uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yes .\nPhD A: Because we have eighty - eight point six .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: And even the MLP alone {disfmarker} What gives the MLP alone ? Multi - English PLP . Oh no , it gives eighty - three point six . So we have our eighty - three point six and now eighty - eighty point six ,\nPhD B: But {disfmarker}\nPhD A: that gives eighty - seven point one .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Eighty - s I thought it was eighty Oh , OK , eighty - three point six and eighty {disfmarker} eighty - eight point six .\nPhD A: Eighty - three point six . Eighty {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD A: Is th is that right ? Yeah ?\nPhD B: Yeah . But {disfmarker} I don't know {disfmarker} but maybe if we have the neural network trained with the PLP {pause} delta and delta - delta , maybe tha this can help .\nPhD A: Perhaps , yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , that 's {disfmarker} that 's one thing , but see the other thing is that , um , I mean it 's good to take the difficult case , but let 's {disfmarker} let 's consider what that means . What {disfmarker} what we 're saying is that one o one of the things that {disfmarker} I mean my interpretation of your {disfmarker} your s original suggestion is something like this , as motivation . When we train on data that is in one sense or another , similar to the testing data , then we get a win by having discriminant training .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: When we train on something that 's quite different , we have a potential to have some problems .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: And , um , if we get something that helps us when it 's somewhat similar , and doesn't hurt us too much when it {disfmarker} when it 's quite different , that 's maybe not so bad .\nPhD A: Yeah . Mmm .\nProfessor D: So the question is , if you took the same combination , and you tried it out on , uh {disfmarker} on say digits ,\n",
      "PhD A: On TI - digits ? OK .\nProfessor D: you know , d Was that experiment done ?\nPhD A: No , not yet .\nProfessor D: Yeah , OK . Uh , then does that , eh {disfmarker} you know maybe with similar noise conditions and so forth , {comment} does it {disfmarker} does it then look much better ?\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: And so what is the range over these different kinds of uh {disfmarker} of tests ? So , an anyway . OK , go ahead .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: And , with this type of configuration which I do on experiment using the new neural net with name broad klatt s twenty - seven , uh , d I have found more or less the same result .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So , it 's slightly better ,\nPhD B: Little bit better ?\nPhD A: yeah .\nProfessor D: Slightly better .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Slightly bet better . Yes , is better .\n",
      "Professor D: And {disfmarker} and you know again maybe if you use the , uh , delta {pause} there , uh , you would bring it up to where it was , uh you know at least about the same for a difficult case .\nPhD B: Yeah , maybe . Maybe . Maybe .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Oh , yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah . Well , so perhaps let 's {disfmarker} let 's jump at the last experiment .\nPhD B:  Oh , yeah .\nProfessor D: So .\n",
      "PhD A: It 's either less information from the neural network if we use only the silence output .\nPhD B: i\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: It 's again better . So it 's eighty - nine point {disfmarker} point one .\nPhD B: Yeah ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and we have only forty {disfmarker} forty feature\nPhD A: So .\nPhD B: because in this situation we have one hundred and three feature .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . And then w with the first configuration , I f I am found that work , uh , doesn't work {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: uh , well , work , but is better , the second configuration . Because I {disfmarker} for the del Engli - PLP delta and delta - delta , here I have eighty - five point three accuracy , and with the second configuration I have eighty - seven point one .\n",
      "Professor D: Um , by the way , there is a another , uh , suggestion that would apply , uh , to the second configuration , um , which , uh , was made , uh , by , uh , Hari . And that was that , um , if you have {disfmarker} uh feed two streams into HTK , um , and you , uh , change the , uh variances {disfmarker} if you scale the variances associated with , uh these streams um , you can effectively scale {pause} the streams . Right ? So , um , you know , without changing the scripts for HTK , which is the rule here , uh , you can still change the variances\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm . \nProfessor D: which would effectively change the scale of these {disfmarker} these , uh , two streams that come in .\nPhD A: Uh , {comment} yeah .\nProfessor D: And , um , so , um , if you do that , for instance it may be the case that , um , the MLP should not be considered as strongly , for instance .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: And , um , so this is just setting them to be , excuse me , of equal {disfmarker} equal weight . Maybe it shouldn't be equal weight .\nPhD B: Maybe .\n",
      "Professor D: Right ? You know , I I 'm sorry to say that gives more experiments if we wanted to look at that , but {disfmarker} but , uh , um , you know on the other hand it 's just experiments at the level of the HTK recognition .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: It 's not even the HTK ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: uh , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Well , I guess you have to do the HTK training also .\nPhD B: so this is what we decided to do .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh , do you ? Let me think . Maybe you don't . Uh . Yeah , you have to change the {disfmarker} No , you can just do it in {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} once you 've done the training {disfmarker}\nGrad C: And then you can vary it . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , the training is just coming up with the variances so I guess you could {disfmarker} you could just scale them all .\nPhD A: Scale\nProfessor D: Variances .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . But {disfmarker} Is it {disfmarker} i th I mean the HTK models are diagonal covariances , so I d Is it {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: That 's uh , exactly the point , I think , that if you change {disfmarker} um , change what they are {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: It 's diagonal covariance matrices , but you say what those variances are .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: So , that {disfmarker} you know , it 's diagonal , but the diagonal means th that then you 're gonna {disfmarker} it 's gonna {disfmarker} it 's gonna internally multiply it {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and uh , {vocalsound} uh , i it im uh implicitly exponentiated to get probabilities , and so it 's {disfmarker} it 's gonna {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's going to affect the range of things if you change the {disfmarker} change the variances {pause} of some of the features .\n",
      "PhD A: Mmm . Mmm .\nPhD B: do ?\nProfessor D: So , i it 's precisely given that model you can very simply affect , uh , the s the strength that you apply the features . That was {disfmarker} that was , uh , Hari 's suggestion .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: So , um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . So . So it could just be that h treating them equally , tea treating two streams equally is just {disfmarker} just not the right thing to do . Of course it 's potentially opening a can of worms because , you know , maybe it should be a different {vocalsound} number for {disfmarker} for each {vocalsound} kind of {pause} test set , or something ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: but {disfmarker} OK .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: So I guess the other thing is to take {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} if one were to take , uh , you know , a couple of the most successful of these ,\nPhD A: Yeah , and test across everything .\nProfessor D: and uh {disfmarker} Yeah , try all these different tests .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Alright . Uh .\n",
      "PhD A: So , the next point , yeah , we 've had some discussion with Steve and Shawn , um , about their um , uh , articulatory stuff , um . So we 'll perhaps start something next week .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Um , discussion with Hynek , Sunil and Pratibha for trying to plug in their our {disfmarker} our networks with their {disfmarker} within their block diagram , uh , where to plug in the {disfmarker} the network , uh , after the {disfmarker} the feature , before as um a as a plugin or as a anoth another path , discussion about multi - band and TRAPS , um , actually Hynek would like to see , perhaps if you remember the block diagram there is , uh , temporal LDA followed b by a spectral LDA for each uh critical band . And he would like to replace these by a network which would , uh , make the system look like a TRAP . Well , basically , it would be a TRAP system . Basically , this is a TRAP system {disfmarker} kind of TRAP system , I mean , but where the neural network are replaced by LDA . Hmm . {vocalsound} Um , yeah , and about multi - band , uh , I started multi - band MLP trainings , um mmh {comment} Actually , I w I w hhh {comment} prefer to do exactly what I did when I was in Belgium . So I take exactly the same configurations , seven bands with nine frames of context , and we just train on TIMIT , and on the large database , so , with SPINE and everything . And , mmm , I 'm starting to train also , networks with larger contexts . So , this would {disfmarker} would be something between TRAPS and multi - band because we still have quite large bands , and {disfmarker} but with a lot of context also . So Um Yeah , we still have to work on Finnish , um , basically , to make a decision on which MLP can be the best across the different languages . For the moment it 's the TIMIT network , and perhaps the network trained on everything . So . Now we can test these two networks on {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with delta and large networks . Well , test them also on Finnish\n",
      "PhD B: Mmm .\nPhD A: and see which one is the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the best . Uh , well , the next part of the document is , well , basically , a kind of summary of what {disfmarker} everything that has been done . So . We have seventy - nine M L Ps trained on one , two , three , four , uh , three , four , five , six , seven ten {disfmarker} on ten different databases .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , the number of frames is bad also , so we have one million and a half for some , three million for other , and six million for the last one . Uh , yeah ! {comment} As we mentioned , TIMIT is the only that 's hand - labeled , and perhaps this is what makes the difference . Um . Yeah , the other are just Viterbi - aligned . So these seventy - nine MLP differ on different things . First , um with respect to the on - line normalization , there are {disfmarker} that use bad on - line normalization , and other good on - line normalization . Um . With respect to the features , with respect to the use of delta or no , uh with respect to the hidden layer size and to the targets . Uh , but of course we don't have all the combination of these different parameters Um . s What 's this ? We only have two hundred eighty six different tests And no not two thousand .\n",
      "Professor D:  Ugh ! I was impressed boy , two thousand .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Ah , yes .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD B: I say this morning that @ @ thought it was the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Alright , now I 'm just slightly impressed , OK .\n",
      "PhD A: Um . Yeah , basically the observation is what we discussed already . The MSG problem , um , the fact that the MLP trained on target task decreased the error rate . but when the M - MLP is trained on the um {disfmarker} is not trained on the target task , it increased the error rate compared to using straight features . Except if the features are bad {disfmarker} uh , actually except if the features are not correctly on - line normalized . In this case the tandem is still better even if it 's trained on {disfmarker} not on the target digits .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . So it sounds like {vocalsound} yeah , the net corrects some of the problems with some poor normalization .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: But if you can do good normalization it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker} OK .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh , so the fourth point is , yeah , the TIMIT plus noise seems to be the training set that gives better {disfmarker} the best network .\nProfessor D: So So - Let me {disfmarker} bef before you go on to the possible issues .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So , on the MSG uh problem um , I think that in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} um , in the short {pause} time {pause} solution um , that is , um , trying to figure out what we can proceed forward with to make the greatest progress ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: uh , much as I said with JRASTA , even though I really like JRASTA and I really like MSG ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: I think it 's kind of in category that it 's , it {disfmarker} it may be complicated .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: And uh it might be {disfmarker} if someone 's interested in it , uh , certainly encourage anybody to look into it in the longer term , once we get out of this particular rush {pause} uh for results .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: But in the short term , unless you have some {disfmarker} some s strong idea of what 's wrong ,\n",
      "PhD A: I don't know at all but I 've {disfmarker} perhaps {disfmarker} I have the feeling that it 's something that 's quite {disfmarker} quite simple or just like nnn , no high - pass filter\nProfessor D: Yeah , probably .\nPhD A: or {disfmarker} Mmm . Yeah . {pause} My {disfmarker} But I don't know .\nProfessor D: There 's supposed to {disfmarker} well MSG is supposed to have a an on - line normalization though , right ?\n",
      "PhD A: It 's {disfmarker} There is , yeah , an AGC - kind of AGC . Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , but also there 's an on - line norm besides the AGC , there 's an on - line normalization that 's supposed to be uh , yeah ,\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: taking out means and variances and so forth . So .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: In fac in fact the on - line normalization that we 're using came from the MSG design ,\nPhD A: Um .\n",
      "Professor D: so it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yeah . But this was the bad on - line normalization . Actually . Uh . Are your results are still with the bad {disfmarker} the bad {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Maybe , may {disfmarker} No ? With the better {disfmarker}\nPhD A: With the O - OLN - two ?\nPhD B: No ?\nPhD A: Ah yeah , you have {disfmarker} you have OLN - two ,\n",
      "PhD B: Oh ! Yeah , yeah , yeah ! With \" two \" , with \" on - line - two \" .\nPhD A: yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah , yeah ,\nProfessor D: \" On - line - two \" is good .\nPhD A: So it 's , is the good yeah .\nPhD B: yeah . Yep , it 's a good .\nProfessor D: \" Two \" is good ?\nPhD A: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: No , \" two \" is bad .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Well , actually , it 's good with the ch with the good .\n",
      "Professor D: OK . Yeah . So {disfmarker} Yeah , I {disfmarker} I agree . It 's probably something simple uh , i if {disfmarker} if uh someone , you know , uh , wants to play with it for a little bit . I mean , you 're gonna do what you 're gonna do\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: but {disfmarker} but my {disfmarker} my guess would be that it 's something that is a simple thing that could take a while to find .\nPhD A: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Mmm . I see , yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah .\nPhD A: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Uh . {comment} And the other {disfmarker} the results uh , observations two and three , Um , is\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: uh {disfmarker} Yeah , that 's pretty much what we 've seen . That 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} what we were concerned about is that if it 's not on the target task {disfmarker} If it 's on the target task then it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it helps to have the MLP transforming it .\n",
      "PhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: If it uh {disfmarker} if it 's not on the target task , then , depending on how different it is , uh you can get uh , a reduction in performance .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: And the question is now how to {disfmarker} how to get one and not the other ? Or how to {disfmarker} how to ameliorate the {disfmarker} the problems .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: Um , because it {disfmarker} it certainly does {disfmarker} is nice to have in there , when it {disfmarker} {vocalsound} when there is something like the training data .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Um . Yeah . So , {pause} the {disfmarker} the reason {disfmarker} Yeah , the reason is that the {disfmarker} perhaps the target {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the task dependency {disfmarker} the language dependency , {vocalsound} and the noise dependency {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: So that 's what you say th there . I see .\nPhD A: Well , the e e But this is still not clear because , um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't think we have enough result to talk about the {disfmarker} the language dependency . Well , the TIMIT network is still the best but there is also an the other difference , the fact that it 's {disfmarker} it 's hand - labeled .\n",
      "Professor D: Hey ! Um , just {disfmarker} you can just sit here . Uh , I d I don't think we want to mess with the microphones but it 's uh {disfmarker} Just uh , have a seat . Um . s Summary of the first uh , uh forty - five minutes is that some stuff work and {disfmarker} works , and some stuff doesn't OK ,\nPhD A: We still have uh {pause} this {disfmarker} One of these perhaps ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . \n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , I guess we can do a little better than that but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I think if you {disfmarker} if you start off with the other one , actually , that sort of has it in words and then th that has it the {pause} associated results .\nPhD B: Um .\n",
      "Professor D: OK . So you 're saying that um , um , although from what we see , yes there 's what you would expect in terms of a language dependency and a noise dependency . That is , uh , when the neural net is trained on one of those and tested on something different , we don't do as well as in the target thing . But you 're saying that uh , it is {disfmarker} Although that general thing is observable so far , there 's something you 're not completely convinced about . And {disfmarker} and what is that ? I mean , you say \" not clear yet \" . What {disfmarker} what do you mean ?\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , mmm , uh , {comment} I mean , that the {disfmarker} the fact that s Well , for {disfmarker} for TI - digits the TIMIT net is the best ,  which is the English net .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: But the other are slightly worse . But you have two {disfmarker} two effects , the effect of changing language and the effect of training on something that 's {pause} Viterbi - aligned instead of hand {disfmarker} hand - labeled .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: So . Um . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Do you think the alignments are bad ? I mean , have you looked at the alignments at all ? What the Viterbi alignment 's doing ?\nPhD A: Mmm . I don't {disfmarker} I don't know . Did - did you look at the Spanish alignments Carmen ?\nPhD B: Mmm , no .\nProfessor D: Might be interesting to look at it . Because , I mean , that is just looking but um , um {disfmarker} It 's not clear to me you necessarily would do so badly from a Viterbi alignment . It depends how good the recognizer is\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: that 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the engine is that 's doing the alignment .\nPhD A: Yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah . But , perhaps it 's not really the {disfmarker} the alignment that 's bad but the {disfmarker} just the ph phoneme string that 's used for the alignment\nProfessor D: Aha !\nPhD A: Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah . \nProfessor D: The pronunciation models and so forth\n",
      "PhD A: I mean {pause} for {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} It 's single pronunciation , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Aha .\nPhD A: French {disfmarker} French s uh , phoneme strings were corrected manually\nProfessor D: I see .\n",
      "PhD A: so we asked people to listen to the um {disfmarker} the sentence and we gave the phoneme string and they kind of correct them . But still ,  there {disfmarker} there might be errors just in the {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the ph string of phonemes . Mmm . Um . Yeah , so this is not really the Viterbi alignment ,  in fact , yeah . Um , the third {disfmarker} The third uh issue is the noise dependency perhaps but , well , this is not clear yet because all our nets are trained on the same noises and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: I thought some of the nets were trained with SPINE and so forth . So it {disfmarker} And that has other noise .\nPhD A: Yeah . So {disfmarker} Yeah . But {disfmarker} Yeah . Results are only coming for {disfmarker} for this net . Mmm .\nProfessor D: OK , yeah , just don't {disfmarker} just need more {disfmarker} more results there with that @ @ .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . Um . So . Uh , from these results we have some questions with answers . What should be the network input ? Um , PLP work as well as MFCC , I mean . Um . But it seems impor important to use the delta . Uh , with respect to the network size , there 's one experiment that 's still running and we should have the result today , comparing network with five hundred and {pause} one thousand units . So , nnn , still no answer actually .\nProfessor D: Hm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , the training set , well , some kind of answer . We can , we can tell which training set gives the best result , but {vocalsound} we don't know exactly why . Uh , so .\nProfessor D: Uh . Right , I mean the multi - English so far is {disfmarker} is the best .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: \" Multi - multi - English \" just means \" TIMIT \" ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: right ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: So uh That 's {disfmarker} Yeah . So . And {disfmarker} and when you add other things in to {disfmarker} to broaden it , it gets worse {pause} uh typically .\nPhD A: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Then uh some questions without answers .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD A: Uh , training set , um ,\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: uh , training targets {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I like that . The training set is both questions , with answers and without answers .\n",
      "PhD A: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: It 's sort of , yes {disfmarker} it 's mul it 's multi - uh - purpose .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD A: Uh , training s Right . So {disfmarker} Yeah , the training targets actually , the two of the main issues perhaps are still the language dependency {vocalsound} and the noise dependency . And perhaps to try to reduce the language dependency , we should focus on finding some other kind of training targets .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: And labeling s labeling seems important uh , because of TIMIT results .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Uh . For moment you use {disfmarker} we use phonetic targets but we could also use articulatory targets , soft targets , and perhaps even , um use networks that doesn't do classification but just regression so uh , train to have neural networks that um , um , uh ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: does a regression and well , basically com com compute features and noit not , nnn , features without noise . I mean uh , transform the fea noisy features {vocalsound} in other features that are not noisy . But continuous features . Not uh uh , hard targets .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah , that {pause} seems like a good thing to do , probably ,  not uh again a short - term sort of thing .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: I mean one of the things about that is that um it 's {disfmarker} e u the ri I guess the major risk you have there of being {disfmarker} is being dependent on {disfmarker} very dependent on the kind of noise and {disfmarker} and so forth .\nPhD A: Yeah . f But , yeah .\nProfessor D: Uh . But it 's another thing to try .\n",
      "PhD A: So , this is w w i wa wa this is one thing , this {disfmarker} this could be {disfmarker} could help {disfmarker} could help perhaps to reduce language dependency and for the noise part um we could combine this with other approaches , like , well , the Kleinschmidt approach . So the d the idea of putting all the noise that we can find inside a database . I think Kleinschmidt was using more than fifty different noises to train his network ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: and {disfmarker} So this is one {vocalsound} approach and the other is multi - band {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , that I think is more robust to the noisy changes .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So perhaps , I think something like multi - band trained on a lot of noises with uh , features - based targets could {disfmarker} could {disfmarker} could help .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , if you {disfmarker} i i It 's interesting thought maybe if you just trained up {disfmarker} I mean w yeah , one {disfmarker} one fantasy would be you have something like articulatory targets and you have {pause} um some reasonable database , um but then {disfmarker} which is um {vocalsound} copied over many times with a range of different noises ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If {disfmarker} Cuz what you 're trying to {pause} do is come up with a {disfmarker} a core , reasonable feature set which is then gonna be used uh , by the {disfmarker} the uh HMM {pause} system .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So . Yeah , OK .\n",
      "PhD A: So , um , yeah . The future work is , {pause} well , try to connect to the {disfmarker} to make {disfmarker} to plug in the system to the OGI system . Um , there are still open questions there , where to put the MLP basically .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Um .\n",
      "Professor D: And I guess , you know , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the real open question , I mean , e u there 's lots of open questions , but one of the core quote {comment} \" open questions \" for that is um , um , if we take the uh {disfmarker} you know , the best ones here , maybe not just the best one , but the best few or something {disfmarker} You want the most promising group from these other experiments . Um , how well do they do over a range of these different tests , not just the Italian ?\nPhD A: Mmm ,\n",
      "Professor D: Um . And y\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor D: y {pause} Right ? And then um {disfmarker} then see , {pause} again , how {disfmarker} We know that there 's a mis there 's a uh {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a loss in performance when the neural net is trained on conditions that are different than {disfmarker} than , uh we 're gonna test on , but well , if you look over a range of these different tests um , how well do these different ways of combining the straight features with the MLP features , uh stand up over that range ?\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: That 's {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that seems like the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the real question . And if you know that {disfmarker} So if you just take PLP with uh , the double - deltas . Assume that 's the p the feature . look at these different ways of combining it . And uh , take {disfmarker} let 's say , just take uh multi - English cause that works pretty well for the training .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And just look {disfmarker} take that case and then look over all the different things . How does that {disfmarker} How does that compare between the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So all the {disfmarker} all the test sets you mean , yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: All the different test sets ,\nPhD A: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: and for {disfmarker} and for the couple different ways that you have of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of combining them .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Um . {pause} How well do they stand up , over the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mmm . And perhaps doing this for {disfmarker} cha changing the variance of the streams and so on {pause} getting different scaling {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: That 's another possibility if you have time , yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: Um . Yeah , so thi this sh would be more working on the MLP as an additional path instead of an insert to the {disfmarker} to their diagram .\nProfessor D: \n",
      "PhD A: Cuz {disfmarker} Yeah . Perhaps the insert idea is kind of strange because nnn , they {disfmarker} they make LDA and then we will again add a network does discriminate anal nnn , that discriminates ,\nProfessor D: Yeah . {pause} It 's a little strange\nPhD A: or {disfmarker} ? Mmm ?\nProfessor D: but on the other hand they did it before .\nPhD A: Mmm . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and\nProfessor D: Um the\n",
      "PhD A: yeah . And because also perhaps we know that the {disfmarker} when we have very good features the MLP doesn't help . So . I don't know .\nProfessor D: Um , the other thing , though , is that um {disfmarker} So . Uh , we {disfmarker} we wanna get their path running here , right ? If so , we can add this other stuff .\nPhD A: Um .\nProfessor D: as an additional path right ?\nPhD A: Yeah , the {disfmarker} the way we want to do {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Cuz they 're doing LDA {pause} RASTA .\nPhD A: The d What ?\nProfessor D: They 're doing LDA RASTA ,\nPhD A: Yeah , the way we want to do it perhaps is to {disfmarker} just to get the VAD labels and the final features .\nProfessor D: yeah ?\nPhD A: So they will send us the {disfmarker} Well , provide us with the feature files ,\nProfessor D: I see . I see .\n",
      "PhD A: and with VAD uh , binary labels so that we can uh , get our MLP features and filter them with the VAD and then combine them with their f feature stream . So .\nProfessor D: I see . So we {disfmarker} So . First thing of course we 'd wanna do there is to make sure that when we get those labels of final features is that we get the same results as them . Without putting in a second path .\nPhD A: Uh . You mean {disfmarker} Oh , yeah ! Just re re retraining r retraining the HTK ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah just th w i i Just to make sure that we {pause} have {disfmarker} we understand properly what things are , our very first thing to do is to {disfmarker} is to double check that we get the exact same results as them on HTK .\nPhD A:  Oh yeah . Yeah , OK . Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Uh , I mean , I don't know that we need to r\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Um {pause} Do we need to retrain I mean we can just take the re their training files also . But . {pause} But , uh just for the testing , jus just make sure that we get the same results {pause} so we can duplicate it before we add in another {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mmm . OK .\nProfessor D: Cuz otherwise , you know , we won't know what things mean .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , yeah . OK . And um . Yeah , so fff , LogRASTA , I don't know if we want to {disfmarker} We can try {pause} networks with LogRASTA filtered features .\nProfessor D: Maybe .\nPhD A: Mmm . I 'm sorry ? Yeah . Well {disfmarker} Yeah . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Oh ! You know , the other thing is when you say comb I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , I 'm interrupting . {comment} that u Um , uh , when you 're talking about combining multiple features , um {disfmarker} Suppose we said , \" OK , we 've got these different features and so forth , but PLP seems {pause} pretty good . \" If we take the approach that Mike did and have {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: I mean , one of the situations we have is we have these different conditions . We have different languages , we have different {disfmarker} {vocalsound} different noises , Um {pause} If we have some drastically different conditions and we just train up different M L Ps {pause} with them .\nPhD A: \n",
      "Professor D: And put {disfmarker} put them together . What {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} What Mike found , for the reverberation case at least , I mean {disfmarker} I mean , who knows if it 'll work for these other ones . That you did have nice interpolative effects . That is , that yes , if you knew {pause} what the reverberation condition was gonna be and you trained for that , then you got the best results . But if you had , say , a heavily - reverberation ca heavy - reverberation case and a no - reverberation case , uh , and then you fed the thing , uh something that was a modest amount of reverberation then you 'd get some result in between the two . So it was sort of {disfmarker} behaved reasonably . Is tha that a fair {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . So you {disfmarker} you think it 's perhaps better to have several M L Yeah but {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: It works better if {pause} what ?\nPhD A: Yea\n",
      "Professor D: I see . Well , see , i oc You were doing some something that was {disfmarker} So maybe the analogy isn't quite right . You were doing something that was in way a little better behaved . You had reverb for a single variable which was re uh , uh , reverberation . Here the problem seems to be is that we don't have a hug a really huge net with a really huge amount of training data . But we have s f {pause} for this kind of task , I would think , {pause} sort of a modest amount . I mean , a million frames actually isn't that much . We have a modest amount of {disfmarker} of uh training data from a couple different conditions , and then uh {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} yeah , that {disfmarker} and the real situation is that there 's enormous variability that we anticipate in the test set in terms of language , and noise type uh , and uh , {pause} uh , channel characteristic , sort of all over the map . A bunch of different dimensions . And so , I 'm just concerned that we don't really have {pause} um , the data to train up {disfmarker} I mean one of the things that we were seeing is that when we added in {disfmarker} we still don't have a good explanation for this , but we are seeing that we 're adding in uh , a fe few different databases and uh the performance is getting worse and uh , when we just take one of those databases that 's a pretty good one , it actually is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is better . And uh that says to me , yes , that , you know , there might be some problems with the pronunciation models that some of the databases we 're adding in or something like that . But one way or another {pause} we don't have uh , seemingly , the ability {pause} to represent , in the neural net of the size that we have , um , all of the variability {pause} that we 're gonna be covering . So that I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm hoping that um , this is another take on the efficiency argument you 're making , which is I 'm hoping that with moderate size neural nets , uh , that uh if we {disfmarker} if they look at more constrained conditions they {disfmarker} they 'll have enough parameters to really represent them . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: So doing both is {disfmarker} is not {disfmarker} is not right , you mean , or {disfmarker} ? Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I just sort of have a feeling {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Mm - hmm . \n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . I mean {disfmarker} {vocalsound} i i e The um {disfmarker} I think it 's true that the OGI folk found that using LDA {pause} RASTA , which is a kind of LogRASTA , it 's just that they have the {disfmarker} I mean it 's done in the log domain , as I recall , and it 's {disfmarker} it uh {disfmarker} it 's just that they d it 's trained up , right ? That that um benefitted from on - line normalization . So they did {disfmarker} At least in their case , it did seem to be somewhat complimentary . So will it be in our case , where we 're using the neural net ? I mean they {disfmarker} they were not {disfmarker} not using the neural net . Uh I don't know . OK , so the other things you have here are uh , trying to improve results from a single {disfmarker} Yeah . Make stuff better . OK . Uh . {vocalsound} Yeah . And CPU memory issues . Yeah . We 've been sort of ignoring that , haven't we ?\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , so I don't know .\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But we have to address the problem of CPU and memory we {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah , but I li Well , I think {disfmarker} My impression {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you folks have been looking at this more than me . But my impression was that {vocalsound} uh , there was a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a strict constraint on the delay ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: but beyond that it was kind of that uh using less memory was better , and {vocalsound} using less CPU was better . Something like that ,\nPhD A: Yeah , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: right ?\nPhD A: Yeah . So , yeah , but we 've {disfmarker} I don't know . We have to get some reference point to where we {disfmarker} Well , what 's a reasonable number ? Perhaps be because if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's too large or {disfmarker} large or @ @ {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Um , well I don't think we 're {vocalsound} um {vocalsound} completely off the wall . I mean I think that if we {disfmarker} if we have {disfmarker} Uh , I mean the ultimate fall back that we could do {disfmarker} If we find uh {disfmarker} I mean we may find that we {disfmarker} we 're not really gonna worry about the M L You know , if the MLP ultimately , after all is said and done , doesn't really help then we won't have it in .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: If the MLP does , we find , help us enough in some conditions , uh , we might even have more than one MLP . We could simply say that is uh , done on the uh , server .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: And it 's uh {disfmarker} We do the other manipulations that we 're doing before that . So , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} I think that 's {disfmarker} {pause} that 's OK .\nPhD A: And {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: So I think the key thing was um , this plug into OGI . Um , what {disfmarker} what are they {disfmarker} What are they gonna be working {disfmarker} Do we know what they 're gonna be working on while we take their features ,\nPhD A: They 're {disfmarker} They 're starting to wor work on some kind of multi - band .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker} ?\nPhD A: So . Um {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} that was Pratibha . Sunil , what was he doing , do you remember ?\n",
      "PhD B: Sunil ?\nPhD A: Yeah . He was doing something new or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: I {disfmarker} I don't re I didn't remember . Maybe he 's working with {pause} neural network .\nPhD A: I don't think so . Trying to tune wha networks ?\nPhD B: Yeah , I think so .\n",
      "PhD A: I think they were also mainly , well , working a little bit of new things , like networks and multi - band , but mainly trying to tune their {disfmarker} their system as it is now to {disfmarker} just trying to get the best from this {disfmarker} this architecture .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: \n",
      "Professor D: OK . So I guess the way it would work is that you 'd get {disfmarker} There 'd be some point where you say , \" OK , this is their version - one \" or whatever , and we get these VAD labels and features and so forth for all these test sets from them ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: and then um , uh , that 's what we work with . We have a certain level we try to improve it with this other path and then um , uh , when it gets to be uh , January some point uh , we say , \" OK we {disfmarker} we have shown that we can improve this , in this way . So now uh {pause} um {pause} what 's your newest version ? \" And then maybe they 'll have something that 's better and then we {disfmarker} we 'd combine it . This is always hard . I mean I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I used to work {pause} with uh folks who were trying to improve a good uh , HMM system with uh {disfmarker} with a neural net system and uh , it was {pause} a common problem that you 'd {disfmarker} Oh , and this {disfmarker} Actually , this is true not just for neural nets but just for {disfmarker} in general if people were {pause} working with uh , rescoring uh , N - best lists or lattices that come {disfmarker} came from uh , a mainstream recognizer . Uh , You get something from the {disfmarker} the other site at one point and you work really hard on making it better with rescoring . But they 're working really hard , too . So by the time {pause} you have uh , improved their score , they have also improved their score\n",
      "PhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: and now there isn't any difference ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: because the other {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So , um , I guess at some point we 'll have to\nPhD A: So it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: uh {disfmarker} {comment} Uh , I {disfmarker} I don't know . I think we 're {disfmarker} we 're integrated a little more tightly than happens in a lot of those cases . I think at the moment they {disfmarker} they say that they have a better thing we can {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} e e\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: What takes all the time here is that th we 're trying so many things , presumably uh , in a {disfmarker} in a day we could turn around uh , taking a new set of things from them and {disfmarker} and rescoring it ,\nPhD A: Mmm . Yeah . Yeah , perhaps we could .\nProfessor D: right ? So . Yeah . Well , OK . No , this is {disfmarker} I think this is good . I think that the most wide open thing is the issues about the uh , you know , different trainings . You know , da training targets and noises and so forth .\n",
      "PhD A: Mmm . So we {disfmarker} we can for {disfmarker} we c we can forget combining multiple features and MLG perhaps ,\nProfessor D: That 's sort of wide open .\nPhD A: or focus more on the targets and on the training data and {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , I think for right now um , I th I {disfmarker} I really liked MSG . And I think that , you know , one of the things I liked about it is has such different temporal properties . And um , I think that there is ultimately a really good uh , potential for , you know , bringing in things with different temporal properties . Um , but um , uh , we only have limited time and there 's a lot of other things we have to look at .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And it seems like much more core questions are issues about the training set and the training targets , and fitting in uh what we 're doing with what they 're doing , and , you know , with limited time . Yeah . I think {pause} we have to start cutting down .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: So uh {disfmarker} I think so , yeah . And then , you know , once we {disfmarker} Um , having gone through this {pause} process and trying many different things , I would imagine that certain things uh , come up that you are curious about uh , that you 'd not getting to and so when the dust settles from the evaluation uh , I think that would time to go back and take whatever intrigued you most , you know , got you most interested uh and uh {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and work with it , you know , for the next round . Uh , as you can tell from these numbers uh , nothing that any of us is gonna do is actually gonna completely solve the problem .\n",
      "PhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: So . So , {comment} there 'll still be plenty to do . Barry , you 've been pretty quiet .\nGrad C: Just listening .\nProfessor D: Well I figured that , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what were you involved in in this primarily ?\n",
      "Grad C: Um , {vocalsound} helping out {vocalsound} uh , preparing {disfmarker} Well , they 've been kind of running all the experiments and stuff and I 've been uh , uh w doing some work on the {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} preparing all {disfmarker} all the data for them to {disfmarker} to um , train and to test on . Um Yeah . Right now , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm focusing mainly on this final project I 'm working on in Jordan 's class .\nProfessor D: Ah !\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: I see . Right . What 's {disfmarker} what 's that ?\nGrad C: Um , {vocalsound} I 'm trying to um {disfmarker} So there was a paper in ICSLP about um this {disfmarker} this multi - band um , belief - net structure . {comment} This guy did {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: uh basically it was two H M Ms with {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker} with a dependency arrow between the two H M\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad C: And so I wanna try {disfmarker} try coupling them instead of t having an arrow that {disfmarker} that flows from one sub - band to another sub - band . I wanna try having the arrows go both ways . And um , {vocalsound} I 'm just gonna see if {disfmarker} if that {disfmarker} that better models {pause} um , uh asynchrony in any way or um {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oh ! OK . Well , that sounds interesting .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: OK . Alright . Anything to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you wanted to {disfmarker} No . OK . Silent partner in the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in the meeting . Oh , we got a laugh out of him , that 's good . OK , everyone h must contribute to the {disfmarker} our {disfmarker} our sound {disfmarker} {vocalsound} sound files here . OK , so speaking of which , if we don't have anything else that we need {disfmarker} You happy with where we are ?\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: Know {disfmarker} know wher know where we 're going ? Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I think so , yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , yeah . You {disfmarker} you happy ?\nPhD B: \nProfessor D: You 're happy . OK everyone {pause} should be happy . OK . You don't have to be happy . You 're almost done . Yeah , yeah . OK .\nGrad E: Al - actually I should mention {disfmarker} So if {disfmarker} {comment} um , about the Linux machine \" Swede . \"\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: So it looks like the um , neural net tools are installed there .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nGrad E: And um Dan Ellis {comment} I believe knows something about using that machine so\nPhD A: Mmm .\nGrad E: If people are interested in {disfmarker} in getting jobs running on that maybe I could help with that .\nPhD A: Yeah , but I don't know if we really need now a lot of machines . Well . we could start computing another huge table but {disfmarker} yeah , we {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Well . Yeah , I think we want a different table , at least\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , sure .\nProfessor D: Right ? I mean there 's {disfmarker} there 's some different things that we 're trying to get at now .\nPhD A: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah . Mmm .\nProfessor D: So . Yeah , as far as you can tell , you 're actually OK on C - on CPU uh , for training and so on ? Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Ah yeah . I think so . Well , more is always better , but mmm , I don't think we have to train a lot of networks , now that we know {disfmarker} We just select what works {pause} fine\nProfessor D: OK . OK .\nPhD A: and try to improve this\nPhD B: Yeah . to work\nProfessor D: And we 're OK on {disfmarker} And we 're OK on disk ?\nPhD A: and {disfmarker} It 's OK , yeah . Well sometimes we have some problems .\nPhD B: Some problems with the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: But they 're correctable , uh problems .\nPhD A: Yeah , restarting the script basically\nPhD B: You know .\nPhD A: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Yes . Yeah , I 'm familiar with {vocalsound} that one , OK . Alright , so uh , {comment} {vocalsound} since uh , we didn't ha get a channel on for you , {comment} you don't have to read any digits but the rest of us will . Uh , is it on ? Well . We didn't uh {disfmarker} I think I won't touch anything cuz I 'm afraid of making the driver crash which it seems to do , {pause} pretty easily . OK , thanks . OK , so we 'll uh {disfmarker} I 'll start off the uh um connect the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: My battery is low .\nProfessor D: Well , let 's hope it works . Maybe you should go first and see so that you 're {disfmarker} OK .\nPhD B: batteries ?\nGrad C: Yeah , your battery 's going down too .\nProfessor D: Transcript uh two {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Carmen 's battery is d going down too .\n"
    ],
    "length": 18214,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 57,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting concerned mostly status updates and logistical affairs. The participants learned that the transcription status was good. The progress on the DARPA demo was also good, except the interface did not look as pretty as they had wanted to. The storage disks, which they had been waiting for, had finally arrived, but the person responsible for installing them was going on break. The participants also decided to schedule less meetings, so they have updates to report when they do. The meeting ended with technical discussion about model performance.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad A: OK , we 're on .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad A: So , I think this is gonna be a pretty short meeting because I have four agenda items , three of them were requested by Jane who is not gonna be at the meeting today .  So . {vocalsound} The uh first was transcription status . Does anyone besides Jane know what the transcription status is ?\nPhD F: Um , sort of , I do , peripherally .\nPhD C: Is that English ?\n",
      "PhD F: Um {disfmarker} Well first of all with IBM I got a note from Brian yesterday saying that they finally made the tape for the thing that we sent them a {pause} week or week and a half ago\nPhD D: That 's our system .\nGrad A: Ugh !\nPhD F: and that it 's gone out to the transcribers and hopefully next week we 'll have the transcription back from that .\nGrad A: C can I have a pen ?\n",
      "PhD F: Um {disfmarker} Jane seems to be um moving right along on the transcriptions from the ICSI side . She 's assigned , I think probably five or six m more meetings .\nPhD C: Yeah , I think we 're up to MR thirteen or something .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nPhD F: Yeah , so um , I guess she 's hired some new transcribers\nPhD D: Speaking {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Which meetings is she transcribing ?\n",
      "PhD F: and {disfmarker} Um well we 've {disfmarker} we 've run out of E D Us because a certain number of them are um , sort of awaiting to go to IBM .\nGrad E: OK .\nPhD C: For IBM , yeah .\nPhD D: Hmm .\nGrad E: OK .\nPhD F: and the rest are in process being transcribed uh here .\nPhD D: So does she have transcribers right now who are basically sitting idle because there 's no data back from IBM\nGrad E: So we 're doing some in parallel .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD F: No .\n",
      "Grad A: No , no .\nPhD F: Oh no no .\nGrad A: We haven't done that process .\nPhD D: no ?\nPhD F: No . We 're not waiting on them .\nGrad A: So . They ' r they 're doing the full transcription process .\nPhD D: Oh . Oh , OK .\nGrad E: So they 're just doing their own thing until {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Because I {disfmarker} I need to ask Jane whether it 's {disfmarker} it would be OK for her {disfmarker} um , s some of her people to transcribe uh some of the initial data we got from the SmartKom data collection , which is these short like five or seven minute sessions .\nPhD F: We 're doing it in parallel , yeah .\nGrad E: OK .\nPhD C: Yep .\n",
      "PhD D: Um and we want it {disfmarker} You know , we need {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} Again , we {disfmarker} we have a similar uh logistic set - up where we are supposed to send the data to Munich\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD D: and get it transcribed and get it back . But to get going we would like some of the data transcribed right away so we can get started .\nGrad A: Yep , sounds familiar .\n",
      "PhD D: And so um I wanted to ask Jane if {disfmarker} if uh , you know , maybe one of their transcribers could {disfmarker} could do {disfmarker} I mean since these are very short , that should really be uh ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: um {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker}\nPhD C: There 's only two channels . So it 's only {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: As the synthesis doesn't have to be transcribed I think .\n",
      "PhD D: It 's only two {disfmarker} Right , s\nPhD C: So .\nPhD D: Yeah . So {disfmarker} So it 's basically one channel to transcribe . And it 's {disfmarker} One session is only uh like seven {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So that should have ma many fewer {disfmarker} And it 's also not uh a bunch of interruptions with people and all that ,\nPhD D: Right . And some of it is read speech , so we could give them the {disfmarker} the thing that they 're reading\n",
      "Professor B: right ? So . Yeah .\nPhD D: and they just may {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Make sure it 's right .\nPhD C: Yep .\nPhD D: And so um , um , I guess since she 's {disfmarker} I was gonna ask her but since she 's not around I {disfmarker} maybe I 'll {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah , well it certainly seems {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Uh if {disfmarker} if that 's OK with you to {disfmarker} to , you know , get that stuff uh {disfmarker} to ask her for that , then I 'll do that .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah , if we 're held up on this other stuff a little bit in order to encompass that , that 's OK because I I um , I mean I still have high hopes that the that the IBM pipeline 'll work out for us , so it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . OK , yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Alrighty .\n",
      "PhD F: Oh , yeah , and also related to the transcription stuff , so I 've been trying to keep a web page uh up to date f showing what the current status is of the trans of all the things we 've collected and what stage each meeting is in , in terms of whether it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Can you mail that out to the list ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm , yeah I will . I {disfmarker} That 's the thing that I sent out just to foo people saying can you update these pages\nGrad A: Oh , OK , OK .\n",
      "PhD F: and so that 's where I 'm putting it but I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll send it out to the list telling people to look at it .\nGrad A: Yeah , I haven't done that . So . I have lots of stuff to add that 's just in my own directory .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nGrad A: I 'll try to get to that . OK . So Jane also wanted to talk about participant approval , but I don't really think there 's much to talk about . I 'm just gonna do it . And uh , if anyone objects too much then they can do it instead .\n",
      "Professor B: You are going to {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I 'm gonna send out to the participants , uh , with links to web pages which contain the transcripts and allow them to {pause} suggest edits . And then bleep them out .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad A: For the ones that we have . Um {disfmarker}\nPhD C: So but it 's just transcripts , not the {disfmarker} not the audio ?\nGrad A: Nope , they 'll have access to the audio also .\nPhD C: OK , yeah , yep . Ah .\n",
      "Grad A: I mean that 's my intention . Because the transcripts might not be right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD F: So {disfmarker}\nGrad A: So you want people to be able to listen to them .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD F: So , um the audio that they 're gonna have access to , will that be the uncompressed version ? Or will you have scripts that like uncompress the various pieces and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Oh , that 's a good point . That 's a good point . Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's probably going to have to be the uncompressed versions because , uh , uh , it takes too long to do random access decompression .\nPhD F: Hmm . Yeah , I was just wondering because we 're uh running out of the un - backed - up disk space on\nGrad A: Well , that was the other point .\nPhD F: Oh , was that another one ?\nGrad A: Yep , that 's another agenda item .\nPhD F: OK . I 'll wait .\n",
      "Grad A: So , uh {disfmarker} But that is a good point so we 'll get to that , too . Um , DARPA demo status , not much to say . The back - end stuff is working out fine . It 's more or less ready to go . I 've added some stuff that uh indes indexes by the meeting type MR , EDU , et cetera and also by the user ID . So that the front - end can then do filtering based on that as well . Uh {disfmarker} The back - end is uh , going more slowly as I s I think I said before just cuz I 'm not much of a Tcl - TK programmer . And uh Dave Gelbart says he 's a little too busy . So I think Don and I are gonna work on that and {disfmarker} and you and I can just talk about it off - line more .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nGrad A: But uh {pause} the back - end was pretty smooth .\nProfessor B: Oh\nGrad A: So I think , we 'll have something . It may not be as {disfmarker} As pretty as we might like , but we 'll have something .\nProfessor B: I wondered whe when we would reach Dave 's saturation point . He 's sort of been {disfmarker} been volunteering for everything\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and {pause} and uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: O K . Finally said he was too busy . I guess we reached it .\nGrad A: Yeah , he {disfmarker} he actually {disfmarker} he volunteered but then he s then he retracted it . So . Oh well . Um {disfmarker}\nGrad E: And , also um , I was just showing Andreas , I got um an X Waves kind of display , and I don't know how much more we can do with it {disfmarker} with like the prosodic stuff where we have like stylized pitches and signals and the transcripts on the bottom\nGrad A: Oh , cool .\n",
      "Grad E: so , right now it 's just an X Waves and then you have three windows but I don't know , it looked pretty nice and I 'm sure it {disfmarker} think it has potential for a little something ,\nGrad A: For a demo ?\nGrad E: yeah , for a demo .\nGrad A: Yeah , sounds good .\nGrad E: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: OK , so again , the issue is {disfmarker} For July , the issue 's gonna be what can we fit into a Windows machine , uh , and so on , but {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Oh . OK .\n",
      "Grad A: So it might just be slides .\nGrad E: Yeah , OK .\nPhD C: Well {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah .\nGrad E: Well , we 'll see , um {disfmarker}\nPhD C: I 've been putting together uh Transcriber things for Windows so i And I installed it on Dave Gelbart 's PC and it worked just fine . So hopefully that will work .\nPhD D: Really ? So is that {disfmarker} Because there 's some people um {disfmarker} It would be cool if we could uh get that to work uh at {disfmarker} at SRI\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . Yep .\nPhD D: because the um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Well Transcriber is Tcl - TK , very generic with Snack ,\nPhD D: we have m m We have more Windows machines to run the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad A: so basically anything you can get Snack to run on , it will work .\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . Yeah but {disfmarker} But the problem is the version Transcriber works with , the Snack version , is one point six whatever and that 's not anymore supported . It 's not on {disfmarker} on the web page anymore . But I just wrote an email to {disfmarker} to the author of {disfmarker} to the Snack author and he sent me to one point six whatever library\nGrad A: Well I thought it was packaged with Transcriber ?\n",
      "PhD C: and so it works . Yeah , but then you can't add our patches and then the {disfmarker} the new version is {disfmarker} is totally different\nGrad A: Oh .\nPhD C: a and in {disfmarker} yeah , in terms of {disfmarker} of the source code .\nGrad A: Ah .\nPhD C: You {disfmarker} you can't find the Tcl files anymore . It 's some whatever wrapped thing\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD C: and you can't {disfmarker} you can't access that so you have to install {disfmarker} First install Tcl then install Snack and then install the Transcriber thing and then do the patches .\nGrad A: Patch . Ugh !\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I wonder if {disfmarker} if we should contribute our changes back to the authors so that they maintain those changes along {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: We have {disfmarker} Yeah b it 's just hasn't made it into the release yet .\n",
      "PhD D: We have ? Oh . Oh , OK .\nPhD F: So did you um put the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the NT version out on the uh Meeting Recorder page ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD C: No , I haven't done that yet . I 'm {disfmarker} oh Nope . But I definitely will do that .\nProfessor B: So , can some of the stuff that Don 's talking about somehow fit into this Uh , mean you just have a set of numbers that are associated with the {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD C: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , it 's basically ASCII files or binary files , whatever representation . Just three different {disfmarker} It 's a waveform and just a stylized pitch vector basically so it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Well {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I mean we could do it in Matl - {comment} I mean you could do it in a number of different places I 'm sure .\n",
      "PhD D: But {disfmarker} But it would be cool if the Transcriber interface had like another window for the {disfmarker} you know , maybe above the waveform where it would show some arbitrary valued function that is {disfmarker} that is you know time synchron ti ti time synchronous with the wavform .\nPhD C: Yep .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yes .\nGrad E: Yeah , that 'd be very cool .\nGrad A: It 'd be easy enough to add that . Again it 's {disfmarker} it 's {pause} It 's more Tcl - T\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: So someone who 's familiar with Tcl - TK has to do it ,\nPhD D: Right .\nGrad A: but uh , it wouldn't be hard to do .\nPhD D: Right . But it would almost be like having another waveform displayed .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD C: Yep .\nPhD D: S\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Right .\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah , maybe we could l look into that .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad A: But it {disfmarker} it seems to me that I c\nPhD C: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: It doesn't seem like having that real time is that necessary . So yo It seems to me you could do images .\nGrad E: Um {pause} What do you mean by real time ? Do you mean like {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Like being able to scroll through it and stuff for the demo .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad A: Yeah , jus Yeah .\nPhD F: Is that what you mean ?\nGrad A: It just seems to me jus\nGrad E: It would be cool to see it {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: It would be cool like to see {disfmarker} to hear it and see it ,\nPhD C: And to hear it . Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad E: and see the pitch contours also .\nGrad A: Sure , but I don't think {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} You can do all that just statically in\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad E: I think it would lose {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean y\nGrad A: Just record the audio clip and show an image and I think that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Right , right . I just thought if you meant slides I thought you meant like just {pause} like {pause} um view graphs or something .\nProfessor B: You know , wh Yeah . So . Uh , no , we 're talking about on the computer and {disfmarker} and um , I think when we were talking about this before we had littl this little demo meeting ,\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: we sort of set up a range of different degrees of liveness that you could have and , {vocalsound} the more live , the better , but uh , given the crunch of time , we may have to retreat from it to some extent . So I think {disfmarker} {pause} For a lot of reasons , I think it would be very nice to have this Transcriber interface be able to show some other interesting signal along with it\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: so it 'd be a good thing to get in there . But , um {disfmarker} Anyway , jus just looking for ways that we could actually show what you 're doing , uh , in {disfmarker} {pause} to people .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Cuz a lot of this stuff , particularly for Communicator , uh certainly a significant chunk of the things that we waved our arms about th originally had t had to do with prosodics It 'd be nice to show that we can actually get them and see them .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: And the last i item on the agenda is disk issues yet again . So , we 're doing OK on backed up . We 're {disfmarker} We 're only about thirty percent on the second disk . So , uh , we have a little bit of time before that becomes critical , but we are like ninety five percent , ninety eight percent on the scratch disks for the expanded meetings .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: And , my original intention was like we would just delete them as we needed more space , but unfortunately we 're in the position where we have to deal with all the meeting data {pause} all at once , in a lot of different ways .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD F: Oh there 's a lot of transcribers , too .\nGrad A: Yeah , there 're a lot of transcribers ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad A: so all of those need to be expanded , and then people are doing chunking and I want to do uh , uh , uh , the permission forms ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: An\nPhD F: Right .\nGrad A: so I want those to be live , so there 's a lot of data that has to be around . Um {disfmarker} And Jane was gonna talk to , uh , Dave Johnson about it . One of the things I was thinking is we {disfmarker} we just got these hundred {disfmarker} alright , excuse me {disfmarker} ten , uh SPARC - Blade SUN - Blades .\nProfessor B: Did they come in ?\nPhD F: SUN - Blades .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah . They came in the other day .\n",
      "Grad A: They came in but they 're not set up yet .\nProfessor B: Oh .\nGrad A: And so it seems to me we could hang scratch disk on those {pause} because they 'll be in the machine room , they 'll be on the fast connection to the rest of the machines . And if we just need un - backed - up space , we could just hang disks off them .\nPhD F: Well , is there {disfmarker} Why not just hang them off of Abbott , is there a {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Because there 's no more room in the disk racks on Abbott .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Ah .\nProfessor B: Weren't we gonna get {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Ah , I see .\nProfessor B: Well , maybe it should get another rack .\nPhD D: But you still need to store the disks somehow .\nGrad A: Well , but the SUN - Blades have spare drive bays .\nPhD D: So {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Just put them in .\nPhD F: You can put two {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oh you mean you put them inside the pizza boxes for the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Sure .\nPhD C: Internal . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah . Cuz the SUN {disfmarker} uh , these SUN - Blades take commodity hard drives .\nPhD D: Oh .\nGrad A: So you can just go out and buy a PC hard drive and stick it in .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: But if Abbott is going to be our disk server it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} file server {comment} it seems like we would want to get it , uh , a second disk rack or something .\nPhD D: Plus we 're talking about buying a second dis uh , file server .\n",
      "Grad A: Well , I mean there are lots of long term solutions . What I 'm looking for is where do we s expand the next meeting ?\nPhD C: Yep .\nPhD D: I see {vocalsound} {pause} Oh , I see .\nProfessor B: Well , for the next meeting you might be out of luck with those ten , mightn't you ? Uh , you know Dave Johnson is gone for , like , ten days ,\nGrad A: Oh , I didn't know he had left already .\nProfessor B: Uh , well , tonight .\nGrad A: Oh , oh well .\n",
      "PhD D: You mean he won't set up the {disfmarker} mmm .\nProfessor B: I don't know .\nGrad E: How much space do you need for these ?\nProfessor B: I don't know what his schedule is .\nGrad A: You {disfmarker} we need about a gig per meeting .\nProfessor B: I 'm just saying he 's gone .\nPhD C: Yep .\nPhD F: I {disfmarker} I thi\nGrad E: I have um {disfmarker} I have an eighteen gig drive hanging off of my computer .\nGrad A: Alright ! What 's your computer 's name ?\n",
      "Grad E: So {disfmarker} Uh , Samosa .\nProfessor B: You had an eighteen gigabyte drive .\nGrad E: Yeah , I had . Well it 's about {disfmarker} I think there 's about twelve gig left .\nGrad A: So it {disfmarker} And you have an X drives installed ? OK .\nGrad E: Yeah . So , I didn't realize it was so critical .\nGrad A: And you 're o you 're offering ?\n",
      "Grad E: I mean I 'm not doing anything on it right now until I get new meetings to transcri or that are {disfmarker} new transcriptions coming in I really can't do anything .\nGrad A: OK .\nGrad E: Um not that I can't do anything , I jus\nPhD F: I {disfmarker} I jus I just gave Thilo some {disfmarker} about ten gigs , the last ten gigs of space that there was on {disfmarker} on uh Abbott . Uh {disfmarker} And uh {disfmarker} So but that {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Which one was that , X {pause} G ? X {pause} G ?\nPhD C: XG .\nPhD F: XG .\nGrad A: OK .\nPhD D: XG ?\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD D: That 's also where we store the {disfmarker} The uh Hub - five training set waveforms ,\nPhD C: Oops .\nGrad A: But that won't be getting any bigger ,\nPhD D: right ?\nPhD F: No .\nGrad A: will it ?\nPhD F: I don't think that 's on XG .\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: On XG is only Carmen and Du - and Stephane 's disk .\nPhD C: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD D: But I 've also been storing {disfmarker} I 've been storing the feature files there and I guess I can s start deleting some because we now know what the best features are\nGrad E: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD D: and we won't be using the old ones anymore .\nGrad E: I have a lot of space , though .\nPhD F: Yeah , I do I don't think it was on XG .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh {disfmarker} Oh thats XA {disfmarker} Oh that 's X {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Isn't that XH ?\nPhD F: I th\nGrad A: Not {disfmarker} not for long .\nGrad E: I have a lot of space and it 's not {disfmarker} it 's n There 's very little uh {disfmarker} Yeah not for long .\nPhD D: Maybe I 'm confu\nGrad E: But I mean it 's not going f\nPhD D: Oh no I 'm sorry .\n",
      "Grad E: It 's not being used often at all .\nPhD C: But I 'm using XH {disfmarker} H , too .\nGrad A: Yeah , it 's probably {disfmarker} Probably only about four gig is on X {disfmarker} on your X drive ,\nPhD C: So .\nPhD D: Oh OK .\nGrad A: but we 'll definitely take it up if you {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I th\nPhD D: I think you 're right . It 's XH and D {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: I think it 's about four or five gig cuz I have four meetings on there ,\nPhD D: The b I 'm also using DG I got that confused .\nGrad E: three or four meetings .\nPhD D: OK .\nGrad A: Great .\nGrad E: So .\nGrad A: OK , so that will get us through the next couple days .\nProfessor B: We need {disfmarker} We need another gigaquad .\nGrad A: Yep . At least .\nProfessor B: There should {disfmarker} I d There should just be a b I should have a button .\nGrad A: The \" more disk space \" button ?\n",
      "Professor B: Just press {disfmarker} Press each meeting saying \" we need more disk space \" {vocalsound} \" this week \" .\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor B: Skip the rest of the conversation .\nPhD F: Well we 've collected so far something like uh sixty - five meetings .\nProfessor B: And {disfmarker} And how much does each meeting take ?\nPhD F: And it 's about a gig uncompressed .\n",
      "PhD C: It 's {disfmarker} It 's a little bit more as I usually don't {disfmarker} do not uncompress the {disfmarker} all of the PZM and the PDA things .\nPhD F: Is a little more ?\nPhD C: So .\nPhD F: Right , yeah so if you uncompressed everything it 's even more .\nPhD C: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah . One point five or something .\nPhD F: U Uh compressed how much are they ? Like {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Half a gig . For all of them .\n",
      "PhD F: About half ?\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah . Yep .\nPhD F: So we 're definitely are storing you know , all of those . So there 's what thirty some gig of just meetings so far ?\nProfessor B: So - so So maybe there 's a hundred {pause} gig or something . Or {disfmarker} I mean . Cuz we {disfmarker} we have the uncompressed around also .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . Right .\nProfessor B: So it 's like {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Right . Well we {disfmarker} We haven't uncompressed all the meetings , but {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I would like to .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Well I mean it 's {disfmarker} the they really are cheap . I mean it 's just a question of figuring out where they should be and hanging them ,\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: but But uh , we could {disfmarker} You know , if you want to get four disks , get four disks . I mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's small {disfmarker} I mean these things ar are just a few hundred dollars .\nPhD F: Yeah . Well I sent that message out to , I guess , you and Dave asking for {disfmarker} if we could get some disk .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: I s I sent this out a {disfmarker} a day ago\nGrad A: And put it where ?\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: but {disfmarker} and Dave didn't respond so I don I don't know how the whole process works . I mean does he just go out and get them and {disfmarker} if it 's OK , and {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD F: So I was assuming he was gonna take over {pause} that . But he 's probably too busy given that he 's leaving .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , I think you need a direct conversation with him . And just {vocalsound} say an - e just ask him that , you know , wha what should you do . And in my answer back was \" are you sure you just want one ? \" So I mean I think {pause} that what you want to do is plan ahead a little bit and figure \" well , here 's what we pi figure on doing for the next few months \" .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Wa - a I know what they want . The sysadmins would prefer to have one external drive per machine . So they don't want to stack up external drives .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Um {disfmarker} {pause} And then they want everything else in the machine room .\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad A: So the question is where are you gonna hang them ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . I don't know what the space situation is in the machine room .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD F: So .\nProfessor B: Right . So this is a question that 's pretty hard to solve without talking to Dave ,\n",
      "PhD D: Th - The {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I think part of the reason why Dave can't get the {disfmarker} the new machines up is because he doesn't have room in the machine room right now .\nProfessor B: cuz it {disfmarker}\nPhD D: One {disfmarker} Mmm .\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD D: One {disfmarker} One On - One thing to in to um t to do when you need to conserve space is\nPhD F: So he has to re - arrange a bunch of stuff .\n",
      "PhD D: I bet there are still some old , uh , like , nine gig disks , uh , around and you can probably consolidate them onto larger disks and {disfmarker} and you know recover the space .\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor B: Yeah . No . I think Dave {disfmarker} Dave knows all these things , of course . An - and so , he always has a a lot of plans of things that he 's gonna do to make things better in many ways an and runs out of time .\nPhD D: Right . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: But I {disfmarker} I know that {pause} generally their first priority has been for backed up disk . And so I think what he 's been concentrating on is uh the back {disfmarker} the {pause} back up system , rather than on new disk .\nPhD D: Mmm . Mmm .\nGrad A: So . Which {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Well . So . But this {disfmarker} this is a very specific question for me . Basically , we can easily get {pause} one to four disks , I mean you just go out and get four and we 've got the money for it , it 's no big deal . Uh , but the question is where they go , and I don't think we can solve that here , you just have to ask him .\nPhD D: Maybe we can put some disks in the {disfmarker} in that back room there .\nGrad A: Yeah really .\nProfessor B: Attach to {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Popcorn .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah ?\nPhD D: To the machine that collects the data . So then you could , at least temporarily , store stuff there .\nGrad A: Yeah , it 's just {disfmarker} It 's not on the net , so it 's a little {pause} awkward\nPhD D: The only {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Hmm .\nPhD D: What do you mean it 's not on the net ?\nGrad A: It 's not {disfmarker}\nPhD C: It 's not bad .\nGrad A: It 's behind lots of fire walls that don't allow any services through except S S\n",
      "PhD D: Oh because it 's {disfmarker} because it 's an ACIRI machine ?\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Oh , oh oh .\nGrad A: And also on the list is to get it into the normal ICSI net , but Who knows when that will happen ?\nPhD D: But that can't be that hard .\nPhD F: That might be a good short term solution , though .\nPhD D: I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: No , the {disfmarker} the problem with that apparently is that they don't currently have a wire running to that back room {pause} that goes anywhere near one of the ICSI routers .\nPhD D: Oh ,\nGrad A: So , they actually have to run a wire somewhere .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Yeah , e again , you know , any one of these things is certainly not a big deal . If there was a person dedicated to doing it they would happen pretty easily but it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} jus every ever everybody {disfmarker} everybody has a {disfmarker} has {disfmarker}\nGrad A: But Dave has to do all of them .\n",
      "Professor B: Well all of us have long lists of different things we 're doing . But at any rate I think that there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a longer term thing and there 's immediate need and I think we need a {disfmarker} a conversation with {disfmarker} Uh , maybe {disfmarker} maybe after {disfmarker} after tea or something you and I can go down and {disfmarker} and talk to him about it Just say \" wha you know , what should we do right now ? \"\nPhD F: How long is David gonna be gone ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , eleven days or something ?\nGrad A: Oh my !\nProfessor B: Yeah basically tomorrow and all of {pause} the week after .\nGrad A: And that 's all I have .\n",
      "Professor B: Um {disfmarker} Let 's see . The only oth thing {disfmarker} other thing I was gonna add was that um {disfmarker} uh , I talked briefly to Mari and uh we had {vocalsound} both been busy with other things so we haven't really connected that much since the {pause} last meeting we had here but we agreed that we would have a telephone meeting the Friday after next . And I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wanted to make it , um after the next one of these meetings , so something that we wanna do next meeting is {disfmarker} is uh to put together um , a kind of reasonable list for ourselves of what is it , um , that we 've done . I mean just sort of bulletize I mean o e do do I can {disfmarker} I can dream up text but {pause} this is basically gonna lead to the annual report . So {pause} Um {disfmarker} If w\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: This is the fifteenth ? So just a week from tomorrow ?\nProfessor B: Um , that would\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . So , uh , we can {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} So that 's an {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Is this gotta be in the morning ?\nProfessor B: Um {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Or {disfmarker} Because you know I {disfmarker} Fridays I have to leave uh like around uh two . So if it could be before that would be be\n",
      "Professor B: No , no but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't need other folks for the meeting . I can do it . A A All I 'm saying is that on {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oh , OK , alright . Oh I 'm sorry , I misunderstood .\nProfessor B: Yeah so what I meant was on the me this meeting {pause} if I wa something I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm making a major thing in the agenda is I wanna help in getting together a list of what it is that we 've done so I can tell her .\n",
      "PhD D: I thought you are {disfmarker} OK . Alright . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I think I have a pretty good idea\nPhD D: OK .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker} but um {disfmarker} Uh , and then the next day uh , late in the day I 'll be having that {disfmarker} that discussion with her .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Um . So .\n",
      "PhD D: Um {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} One thing {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} in past meetings we had um also a you know various {disfmarker} variously talked about the um work that w uh was happening sort of on the {disfmarker} on the recognition side\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: um but isn't necessarily related to meetings uh specifically . So . Um . And I wondered whether we should maybe have um a separate meeting and between you know , whoever 's interested in that because I feel that uh there 's plenty of stuff to talk about but it would be sort of um maybe the wrong place to do it in this meeting if uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Think so ?\nPhD D: Well , it 's that {disfmarker} It 's just gonna be ver very boring for people who are not you know , sort of really interested in the details of the recognition system .\nGrad A: I 'm interested .\n",
      "Professor B: Well , OK , so how many {disfmarker} how many people here would not be interested in uh {disfmarker} in a meeting about recognition ?\nPhD C: Me too .\nPhD F: Jane may not be .\nGrad A: Jane , I think .\nPhD C: Yep .\nPhD D: Well I know {disfmarker} Well , Jane an Well you mean in a separate meeting or ha ha talking about it in this {disfmarker}\nGrad A: No . If we talked about it in this meeting .\nPhD F: He 's wondering how much overlap there will be .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , so you 're su\nPhD D: OK .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD D: So , uh , uh , Liz and Jane probably .\nProfessor B: OK , so we 're gonna have a guy 's meeting .\nPhD D: Uh . {vocalsound} Uh , if you wanna put it that way .\nPhD F: Good thing Liz isn't here .\nProfessor B: Real {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Watch a ball game ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , real {disfmarker} real {disfmarker} real men {vocalsound} \" Real men do decoding \" or something like that .\n",
      "PhD F: Don't listen to this , Liz .\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor B: Uh .\nPhD D: I mean it it 's sort of {disfmarker} I mean when {disfmarker} when the talk is about data collection stuff , sometimes I 've {disfmarker} you know , I {disfmarker} I 'm bored .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad A: The {disfmarker} Nod off ?\n",
      "PhD D: So it 's I c I can sympathize with them not wanting to {disfmarker} i to {disfmarker} to be uh {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} If {disfmarker} I cou you know {disfmarker} this could {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: It 's cuz {pause} y you have a {disfmarker} So you need a better developed feminine side .\nPhD D: I 'm\nProfessor B: There 's probably gonna be a lot of \" bleeps \" in this meeting .\nPhD D: not sure I wanna {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , I would as {comment} I would guess .\nProfessor B: Uh . Um .\nPhD D: Yeah and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I think it must be {pause} uh nearing the end of the week . Um . {vocalsound} Yeah . I {disfmarker} You know , I {disfmarker} I 've heard some comments about like this . That m could be .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean the {disfmarker} Um . {vocalsound} U\nPhD D: And we don't have to do it every week .\n",
      "PhD F: Could we {disfmarker}\nPhD D: We could do it every other week or so . You know , whatev or whenever we feel like we {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right , I was {disfmarker} Why don't we alternate this meeting every other week ?\nGrad A: Or just alternate the focus .\nPhD F: Tha - That 's what I mean .\nGrad A: Yeah , so on even weeks have {pause} basic {pause} on data .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: We could do that , yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} Personally I 'd {disfmarker} I 'm not in favor of more meetings . Um . {vocalsound} Because , uh .\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad A: I am .\nPhD D: You know .\nGrad A: Oh sor\nPhD F: But I do I don't {disfmarker} I mean a lot of times lately it seems like we don't really have enough for a full meeting on Meeting Recorder .\nPhD D: Right .\nGrad A: Well , except that we keep going for our full time .\n",
      "PhD F: So if we did that {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yep .\nPhD F: Well , cuz we get into these other topics .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPhD D: We feel {disfmarker} We feel obligated to collect more data .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Ugh .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nGrad A: I don't .\nPhD F: So if we could alternate the focus of the meeting {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Let 's read digits and go .\nProfessor B: Why don't we just start with that .\n",
      "PhD D: ummh . {comment} ummh . {comment} OK .\nProfessor B: And then if we find , you know we 're just not getting enough done , there 's all these topics not coming up , then we can expand into another meeting .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: But I {disfmarker} I think that 's a great idea . Uh . So uh . Um . Let 's chat about it with Liz and Jane {pause} when we get a chance , see what they think and {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah that would be good . I mean Andreas and I have various talks in the halls\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: and there 's lots of things , you know , details and stuff that would I think people 'd be interested in and I 'd {disfmarker} you know , where do we go from here kind of things and {disfmarker} So , it would be good .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , and you 're {disfmarker} you 're attending {pause} the uh {disfmarker} the front - end meeting as well as the others so you have {disfmarker} you have probably one of the best {disfmarker} you and I , I guess are the main ones who sort of see the bridge between the two .\nGrad A: Bridge .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: We are doing recognition in both of them . So .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor B: Uh .\nGrad A: OK ?\n",
      "PhD D: So um . So {disfmarker} so we could talk a little bit about that now if {disfmarker} if there 's some time .\nGrad A: No , no that would be for next week .\nPhD D: Um I jus So the latest result was that um um yot I tested the uh {disfmarker} the sort of final version of the PLP configuration um on development test data for {disfmarker} for this year 's Hub - five test set .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: And the recognition performance was exactly , and I mean exactly up to the {disfmarker} you know , the first decimal , same as with the uh Mel Cepstra front - end .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nPhD F: For both females and males ?\nPhD D: Yes . Uh , well i there was a little bit of a {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Oh !\nPhD D: i overall . They {disfmarker} They were {disfmarker} The males I think were slightly better and the females were slightly worse but nothing really .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: I mean definitely not significant .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And then the really nice thing was that if {disfmarker} if we combine the two systems we get a one and a half percent improvement .\nGrad A: Wow . Just with ROVER ?\nPhD D: So . t With N - best ROVER , which is like our {vocalsound} new and improved version of ROVER .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Which u actually uses the whole N - best list from both systems {pause} to {pause} mmm , uh {pause} c combine that .\nProfessor B: So except {disfmarker} I mean the only key difference between the two really is the kind of smoothing at the end which is the auto - regressive versus the cepstral truncation .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: And , the {disfmarker}\nPhD F: But a percent and a half ?\nGrad A: Yeah , it 's pretty {pause} impressive .\nPhD F: That 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: And {disfmarker} And so uh after I told the {disfmarker} my uh colleagues at SRI about that , you know , now they definitely want to , you know , uh , have a {disfmarker} Next time we have an evaluation they want to do uh , you know , basically a at least the system combination . Um , and , you know , why not ?\nProfessor B: Sure , why not ?\nPhD D: Uh . {vocalsound} So .\nGrad A: We clearly gotta add a few more features , though .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh w what do you mean ? More features in the sense of front - end features or in the sense of just bells and whistles ?\nGrad A: No , uh front - end features . You know we did PLP and Mel Cepstra . Let 's , you know , try RASTA and MSG , and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Oh I mean {disfmarker} Yeah . Well Right . So , we cou Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the the {disfmarker} There 's one thing uh {disfmarker} I mean you don't want to overdo it because y every front - end {disfmarker} You know , if you {disfmarker} you know you basically multiply your effort by N , where N is a number of different systems\nPhD F: Oh .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: and {disfmarker} Um . So . So one {disfmarker} one compromise would be to {disfmarker} only to have the {disfmarker} everything up to the point where you generate lattices be basically one system and then after that you rescore your lattices with the multiple systems and combine the results and that 's a fairly painless um thing .\nProfessor B: Mmm . An\nPhD D: So .\nPhD F: Do you think we 'd still get the one and a half uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I think so . Yeah . Maybe a little less because at that point the error rates are lower and so if {disfmarker} You know , maybe it 's only one percent or something but that would still be worthwhile doing .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So . Um {pause} Jus - You know , just wanted to let you know that that 's working out very nicely .\nGrad A: Cool .\n",
      "PhD D: And then we had some results on {pause} digits , uh , with um {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} So this was uh really {comment} {disfmarker} really sort of just to get Dave going with his um experiments .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And so , uh . But as a result , um , you know , we were sort of wondering why is the Hub - five system doing so well on the digits .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: And the reason is basically there 's a whole bunch of read speech data in the Hub - five training set .\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor B: Including digits I gather , yeah .\nPhD D: And you c And {disfmarker} Not all of {disfmarker} No it 's actually , digits is only a maybe a fifth of it .\nProfessor B: A fifth of it is how much ?\nPhD D: The rest is {disfmarker} is read {disfmarker} is read TIMIT data and uh ATIS data and Wall Street Journal and stuff like that .\n",
      "Professor B: Right . But a fi a fifth is how much ?\nPhD D: A fifth would be maybe uh two hours something .\nProfessor B: Yeah , so I mean that 's actually not that different from the {pause} amount of training that there was .\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD D: But it definitely helps to have the other read data in there\nProfessor B: Oh yeah\nPhD D: because we 're doing {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: w\n",
      "PhD D: You know the error rate is half of what you do if you train only on ti uh TIMIT {disfmarker} {comment} uh not TIMIT uh TI - digits ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: which is only what two hours something ?\nProfessor B: Right .\nGrad A: I don't know .\nPhD D: So . Uh , more read speech data definitely helps . And you can leave out all the conversational data with no performance penalty .\nProfessor B: Yeah that was the interesting thing .\nPhD D: That 's e\n",
      "Professor B: Because {disfmarker} because uh , it was apparent if you put in a bunch more data it would be better ,\nPhD D: That was e Right , right .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker} but uh .\nPhD D: Right .\nPhD F: Well is there even more read speech data around ?\nPhD D: Oh , yeah . So we only {disfmarker} for the Hub - five training , we 're only using uh a fairly small subset of the Macrophone {pause} database .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Um , so , you could beef that up and probably do even better .\nGrad A: I could also put in {pause} uh focus condition zero from Hub - four from Broadcast News , which is mostly prepared speech .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: It 's not exactly read speech but it 's pretty darn close .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Right . Well , I mean that 's plenty of read speech data . I mean , Wall Street Journal , {pause} uh , take one example .\nGrad A: Yeah . That 's right .\n",
      "PhD D: But um . So , you know that might be useful for the people who train the {disfmarker} the digit recognizers to {disfmarker} to use uh something other than TI - digits .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Well they been using TIMIT .\nPhD D: OK .\nProfessor B: That {disfmarker} Uh . {pause} They {disfmarker} they uh {disfmarker} they experimented for a while with a bunch of different databases with French and Spanish and so forth cuz they 're multilingual tests\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker} and uh , um , {disfmarker} and actually the best results they got wa were uh using TIMIT .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker} But uh {disfmarker} which {disfmarker} So that 's what they 're {disfmarker} they 're using now .\nPhD D: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But {disfmarker} but yeah certainly if we , um {disfmarker} If we knew what the structure of what we 're doing there was . I mean there 's still a bunch of messing around with different kinds of uh noise robustness algorithms .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So we don't know exactly which combination we 're gonna be going with .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Once we know , then {disfmarker} the trainable parts of it {disfmarker} it 'd be great to run lots of {disfmarker} lots of stuff through .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . Right . Well , that was that . And then I th guess Chuck and I had some discussions about how to proceed with the tandem uh system and {disfmarker} You wanna {disfmarker} {vocalsound} You wanna see where that stands ?\nPhD F: Well , I 'm {disfmarker}\nPhD D: \n",
      "PhD F: Yeah , so Andreas uh brought over the uh alignments that the SRI system uses . And so I 'm in the process of um converting those alignments into uh label files that we can use to train uh a new net with . And uh so then I 'll train the net . And .\nPhD D: An - And one side effect of that would be that it 's {disfmarker} um that the phone set would change . So the MLP would be trained on I think only forty - six or forty - eight {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right . Eight .\nPhD D: forty - eight phones ?\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Uh which is smaller than the um than the phone set that {disfmarker} that we 've been using so far .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: And that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that will probably help , actually ,\nPhD F: So it 's a little different ?\n",
      "PhD D: because um the fewer dimensions uh e the less trouble probably with the {disfmarker} as far as just the um , um {disfmarker} Just {disfmarker} You know we want to try things like deltas on the tandem features . And so you h have to multiply everything by two or three . And so , you know , fewer dimensions in the {pause} phone set would be actually helpful just from a logistics point of view .\n",
      "Professor B: Sure . Although we {disfmarker} I mean , it 's not that many fewer and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and we take a KLT anyway so we could {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right . Exactly .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: So {disfmarker} so that was the other thing . And then we wanted to s just limit it to maybe uh something on the same order of dimensions as we use in a standard um front - end . So that would mean just doing the top I don't know ten or twelve or something of the KLT dimensions .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , and I think {disfmarker} and we sh again check {disfmarker} we should check with Stephane . My impression was that when we did that before that had very little {disfmarker} uh he didn't lose very much .\nPhD D: Right .\nPhD F: By just taking the top whatever ?\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor B: Yeah yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: But then {disfmarker} And then something {disfmarker} Once we have the new M L P trained up , uh one thing I wanted to try just for the fun of it was to actually run uh like a standard hybrid system that is based on you know , those features uh and uh retrain MLP and also the you know , the dictionary that we use for the Hub - five system .\nProfessor B: And the b And the base u starting off with the base of the alignments that you got from i from a pretty decent system .\nPhD D: Exactly .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . So that would basically give us a , um , more {disfmarker} hopefully a {disfmarker} a better system\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: um because {disfmarker} you know , compared to what Eric did a while ago , where he trained up , I think , a system based on Broadcast News and then uh tra retraining it on Switchboard or s uh and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: But he {disfmarker} I think he d he didn't {disfmarker} he probably didn't use all the training data that was available . And his dictionary probably wasn't as tuned to um conversational speech as {disfmarker} as the {disfmarker} as ours is .\nProfessor B: That 's {disfmarker} That 's certainly one thing , yeah .\nPhD D: So .\nProfessor B: Uh . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: And the dictionary made a huge difference . Uh . We {disfmarker} we made some improvements to the dictionary 's uh {disfmarker} to the dictionary about two years ago which resulted in a {disfmarker} uh something like a four percent absolute error rate reduction on Switchboard , which {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well the other thing is , dipping {pause} deep into history and into uh our resource management days , when we were collaborating with SRI before ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: uh it was {disfmarker} I think , it is was a really key uh starting point for us that we actually got our alignment .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: When we were working together we got our initial alignments from Decipher , uh {pause} at the time .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Uh . {pause} And . Later we got away from it because {disfmarker} because once we had decent systems going then it was {disfmarker} it was typically better to use our own systems\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: cuz they were self consistent but {disfmarker} but certainly to start off when we were trying to recover from our initial hundred and forty percent error uh rate . Uh . {vocalsound} But that was a {disfmarker} that was a good {disfmarker} good {disfmarker} good way to start .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And we 're not quite that bad with our {disfmarker} our Switchboard systems but it was {disfmarker} they certainly aren't as good as SRI 's ,\nPhD D: OK . Yeah .\nProfessor B: so {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Right .\nPhD F: W What is the performance on s the best Switchboard system that we 've done ? Roughly ?\nProfessor B: Well , the hybrid system we never got better than about fifty percent {pause} error . And uh it was {disfmarker} I think there 's just a whole lot of things that uh no one ever had time for . We never did really fix up the dictionary . Uh we always had a list of a half dozen things that we were gonna do and {disfmarker} and a lot of them were pretty simple and we never did .\nPhD D: Yeah . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , we never did an never did any adaptation\nPhD D: But that w Even that {disfmarker} that number {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: uh , we never did any {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right . And {disfmarker} And that number I think was on Switchboard - one data , right ? Where the error rate now is in the twenties .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: So , um .\nProfessor B: So we were {disfmarker} Yeah . We were probably at least a factor or two off .\nPhD D: That 's yet s Right .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: So it would be {disfmarker} So it would be good t to sort of r re uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: just at least to give us an idea of how well the hybrid system would do .\nProfessor B: Yeah . But I think {disfmarker} again it 's {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's the conver it 's the s conversational speech bit . Because our {disfmarker} our Broadcast News system is actually pretty good .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: He knows .\n",
      "PhD D: Right . And the other thing that that would help us to evaluate is to see how well the M L P is trained up . Right ? Because it 's a pretty good um indicator of that .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So it 's sort of a sanity check of the M L P outputs {pause} before we go ahead and train up the {disfmarker} uh you know , use them as a basis for the tandem system .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . It 'll still probably be worse . I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 'd be context independent and so on .\nPhD D: No . Sure . Not {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Should we {disfmarker} Should we bother with um using the net before doing uh embedded training ?\nProfessor B: But .\nPhD D: But {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I mean should {disfmarker} should we even use that ?\nPhD D: Oh {pause} oh that 's a good question .\nPhD F: Or should I just go straight to {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , we {disfmarker} we weren't sure whether it 's worth to just use the alignments um from the S R I recognizer or whether to actually go through one or more iterations of embedded training where you realign .\nGrad A: Try it . You run it ? Keep {disfmarker} keep both versions ? See which one 's better ?\nProfessor B: Uh , yeah . I mean . I think I agree with Ad I mean basically you would then {disfmarker} You proceed with the embedded training .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: It 's gonna take you a while to train at this net anyway .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . Right .\nProfessor B: And while it 's training you may as well test the one you have and see how it did .\nPhD D: OK . Alright .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nGrad A: I could make arguments either way . You know , it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: But {disfmarker} But so I {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Sort of given up guessing .\n",
      "PhD D: Well but i But in your experience I mean uh have you seen big improvements in s on some tasks with embedded training ? Or was it sort of small - ish uh improvements that you got\nProfessor B: Uh well . It depended on the task . I mean I think in this one I would sort of expect it to be important\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor B: because we 're coming from uh , alignments that were achieved with an extremely different system .\nPhD D: That are from another {disfmarker} Right .\n",
      "Grad A: Although , I mean we 've done it with {disfmarker} When we were combining with the Cambridge recurrent neural net , embedded training made it worse .\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor B: Uh .\nGrad A: Which I 've never figured out .\nProfessor B: Right . But I mean i\nGrad A: I think it 's a bug .\nPhD D: So you {disfmarker} you started training with outputs from a {disfmarker} with alignments that were generated by the Cambridge uh system ?\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD D: And then {disfmarker} Uh .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Hmm . Well , that might probably just {disfmarker} Hmm . That was probably because your initial system {disfmarker} I mean your system was ba worse than Cambridge 's . And you {disfmarker} Um .\nProfessor B: Was it ? I don't think it was .\nGrad A: No they were {disfmarker} they were comparable .\nPhD D: It wasn't ?\nProfessor B: No .\nGrad A: They were very close .\nPhD D: Really ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: That 's weird .\nProfessor B: Excuse me ?\n",
      "PhD D: That 's {disfmarker} That 's weird .\nGrad A: That 's what I said .\nProfessor B: Oh !\nPhD D: No I mean it 's weird that it did {disfmarker} I 'm sorry . It 's w It 's weird that it got worse .\nPhD F: That 's ambiguous .\nProfessor B: Um . No . Uh . Tha - u we we 've see I mean {disfmarker} and wi with the numbers {disfmarker} OGI numbers task we 've seen a number of times people doing embedded trainings and things not getting better .\n",
      "PhD D: Oh actually it 's not that weird because we have seen {disfmarker} We have seen cases where acoustic {disfmarker} retraining the acoustic models after some other change made matters worse rather than better .\nProfessor B: Yeah . It just {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But I But I would {disfmarker} I would suspect that something that {disfmarker} that had um a very different Um feature set , for instance {disfmarker} I mean they were using pretty diff similar feature sets to us .\nGrad A: Yep .\n",
      "Professor B: I {disfmarker} I would expect that something that had a different feature set would {disfmarker} would uh benefit from {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: What about uh hidden unit size {pause} on this .\nProfessor B: Oh , wait a minute , and the other thing uh ,\nPhD F: Oh .\nProfessor B: sorry , it was {disfmarker} the other thing is that what was in common {comment} to the Cambridge system and our system is they both were training posteriors .\nGrad A: Right . Ah yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: So I mean , uh , that 's another pretty big difference\nGrad A: That 's another big difference .\nProfessor B: and uh , one bac at least {disfmarker} Back at {disfmarker}\nPhD D: You mean with soft targets ? Or {disfmarker} ? Sorry , I 'm sor I missed {disfmarker} What {disfmarker} What 's the key issue here ?\n",
      "Professor B: Oh , that uh both the Cambridge system and our system were {disfmarker} were training {pause} posteriors . And if we 're {disfmarker} we 're coming from alignments coming from the SRI system , it 's a likelihood - based system . So {disfmarker} so that 's another difference .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean . You know , there 's diffe different front - end different {disfmarker} different uh , um , training criterion {disfmarker} Uh , I would think that in a that an embedded {pause} uh {pause} embedded uh training would have at least a good shot of improving it some more .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: But we don't know .\nPhD D: OK .\nProfessor B: You gonna say something ?\nPhD F: Yeah . I was wondering uh you know what size net I should {disfmarker} Anybody have any intuitions or suggestions ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , how much training data ?\nPhD F: Well , I was gonna start off with the small train set .\nProfessor B: And how {disfmarker} How many hours is that ?\nPhD F: That 's why I was {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure how much that is .\nPhD D: Uh , I think that has about {disfmarker} Well i you 'd {disfmarker} would be gender - dependent training , right ? So {disfmarker} So I think it 's {disfmarker} uh that 's about mmm , something like thirty hours .\n",
      "PhD F: Gender - dependent , yeah .\nPhD D: Thirty hours per gender .\nPhD F: Thirty hours .\nGrad A: I 'm not sure what this 'll mean .\nPhD F: In the small training set ?\nGrad A: Hello ?\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I think so . I 'll {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Excuse me ?\nPhD D: It 's definitely less than a hundred {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Alright .\nPhD D: You know , it 's more like {disfmarker} like thirty forty hours something like that .\nGrad A: Wrong number .\n",
      "PhD F: They called to tell us that ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Um . So . Uh . after run\nPhD F: I mean , I didn't want to do too big ,\nProfessor B: Right . So\nPhD F: just {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: At least a couple thousand hidden units . I mean . It 's {disfmarker} it 's th the thing I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll think about it a little more\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: but it {disfmarker} it 'd be toss up between two thousand and four thousand .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nProfessor B: You definitely wouldn't want the eight thousand . It 's m It 's more than {disfmarker}\nPhD F: And a thousand is too small ?\nProfessor B: Oh let me think about it , but I think that {disfmarker} that uh th at some point there 's diminishing returns . I mean it doesn't actually get worse , typically ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: but it {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but there is diminishing returns and you 're doubling {pause} the amount of time .\nPhD D: Remember you 'll have a smaller output layer so there 's gonna be fewer parameters there .\nGrad A: But not by a lot .\nProfessor B: Not by much .\nPhD D: And then {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Fifty s Fifty four to forty eight ?\nGrad A: Vast majority is from the input unit .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: OK . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . It 'll have a very tiny effect .\n",
      "Grad A: Right , because you used the context windows and so the input to hidden is much , much larger .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Oh I see , I see , yeah , of course .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . It 's negligible , OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah , so it 's {disfmarker} it 'd be way , way less than ten percent of the difference .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Uh . There 's uh {disfmarker} How bi how big Let 's see . What am I trying to think of ?\n",
      "PhD F: The {disfmarker} The net that {disfmarker} that we did use already {pause} uh was eight thousand hidden units and that 's the one that Eric trained up .\nProfessor B: Right . And that was trained up on uh like a hundred and forty hours of {disfmarker} of speech .\nPhD D: Was that gender - dependent or independent ?\nPhD F: Gender - dependent .\nProfessor B: Oh . So that would be like trained on s sixty or seventy hours .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , uh , yeah definitely not the one thousand uh {disfmarker} two thousand fr I mean the four thousand will be better and the two thousand will be almost {disfmarker} will be faster and almost as good .\nGrad A: It 'll be faster .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Maybe I 'll start off with two thousand just to see .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: OK .\nPhD F: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , thirty hours is like a hundred and ten thousand uh seconds . Uh , so that 's like eleven {disfmarker} eleven million frames . And a two thousand hidden unit net is uh I guess about seven , eight hundred thousand parameters . So that 's probably {disfmarker} That 's probably fine . I mean a four thousand is well within the range that you could benefit from but the two thousand 'd be faster so {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right . I actually have to go .\nProfessor B: Alright .\nPhD D: So .\n",
      "Professor B: Uncle Bernie 's rule is ten to one . Bernie Woodrow 's Rule of {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} Uncle Bernie {disfmarker} yeah .\nGrad A: We 're just waiting for you to leave .\nProfessor B: Yes sir .\nGrad A: Anything else ?\nProfessor B: Nah .\nGrad A: OK .\nProfessor B: Since we have nothing to talk about we only talked for an hour .\nGrad A: If {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So .\nGrad A: yeah that 's right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Uh , well , we started late .\nPhD F: Transcript\n"
    ],
    "length": 16808,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 58,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting occurred very close to the finalization of the Aurora model. The team discussed how various components of the model could be moved around to improve results. They had to decrease system latency as well to meet the Aurora requirements. The team thought that LPC could solve the problems they were having. The team also began discussing the Wall Street Journal data and task, which focused on speech recognition. The team was studying the task and learning from Mississippi State's existing model on how to perform better on it. Finally, the team discussed how they could histogram equalization as an alternative to some of the techniques they were using in their current models.",
    "docs": [
      "PhD A: Eh , we should be going .\nProfessor B: So ne next week we 'll have , uh , both Birger {pause} and , uh , Mike {disfmarker} Michael {disfmarker} Michael Kleinschmidt and Birger Kollmeier will join us .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Um , and you 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you 're probably gonna go up in a couple {disfmarker} three weeks or so ? When d when are you thinking of going up to , uh , OGI ?\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , like , uh , not next week but maybe the week after .\nProfessor B: OK . Good . So at least we 'll have one meeting with {vocalsound} yo with you still around , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: That 's good .\nPhD D: Um , Yeah . Well , {vocalsound} maybe we can start with this . Mmm .\nProfessor B: All today , huh ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Oh .\n",
      "PhD D: Um . Yeah . So there was this conference call this morning , um , and the only topic on the agenda was just to discuss a and to come at {disfmarker} uh , to get a decision about this latency problem .\nProfessor B: No , this {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , this is a conference call between different Aurora people or just {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Uh , yeah . It 's the conference call between the Aurora , {vocalsound} uh , group .\nProfessor B: It 's the main conference call . OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , yeah . There were like two hours of {pause} discussions , and then suddenly , {vocalsound} uh , people were tired , I guess , and they decided on {nonvocalsound} a number , two hundred and twenty , um , included e including everything . Uh , it means that it 's like eighty milliseconds {pause} less than before .\nProfessor B: And what are we sitting at currently ?\nPhD D: Um .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: So , currently d uh , we have system that has two hundred and thirty . So , that 's fine .\nProfessor B: Two thirty .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . So that 's the system that 's described on the second point of {pause} this {vocalsound} document .\nProfessor B: So it 's {disfmarker} we have to reduce it by ten milliseconds somehow .\nPhD D: Yeah . But that 's {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's not a problem , I {disfmarker} I guess .\nProfessor B: OK . W It 's {disfmarker} it 's p d primary {disfmarker} primarily determined by the VAD at this point ,\nPhD D: Um .\nProfessor B: right ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: S so we can make the VAD a little shorter .\nPhD D: Yeah . At this point , yeah .\nProfessor B: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah , uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Yeah . We probably should do that pretty soon so that we don't get used to it being a certain way .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Um .\nProfessor B: Was Hari on the {disfmarker} on the phone ?\nPhD D: Yeah , sure .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , it was mainly a discussion {vocalsound} between Hari and {vocalsound} David ,\nProfessor B: Hmm .\nPhD D: who was like {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Uh ,\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: mmm {disfmarker} Uh , yeah . So , the second thing is the system that we have currently . Oh , yes . We have , like , a system that gives sixty - two percent improvement , but {vocalsound} if you want to stick to the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} this latency {disfmarker} Well , it has a latency of two thirty , but {vocalsound} if you want also to stick to the number {vocalsound} of features that {disfmarker} limit it to sixty , {vocalsound} then we go a little bit down but it 's still sixty - one percent . Uh , and if we drop the tandem network , then we have fifty - seven percent .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , but th the two th two thirty includes the tandem network ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK . And i is the tandem network , uh , small enough that it will fit on the terminal size in terms of {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Uh , no , I don't think so .\nProfessor B: No .\nPhD D: No .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: It 's still {disfmarker} in terms of computation , if we use , like , their way of computing the {disfmarker} the maps {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the MIPs , {vocalsound} I think it fits ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: but it 's , uh , m mainly a problem of memory .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Um , and I don't know how much {pause} this can be discussed or not , because it 's {disfmarker} it could be in ROM , so it 's maybe not that expensive . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Ho - how much memory d ? H how many {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: I d I d uh , I {disfmarker} I don't kn remember exactly , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh . Yeah , I c I {disfmarker} I have to check that .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . I 'd like to {pause} see that , cuz maybe I could think a little bit about it , cuz we {vocalsound} maybe we could make it a little smaller or {disfmarker} I mean , it 'd be {disfmarker} it 'd be neat if we could fit it all .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Uh , I 'd like to see how far off we are .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But I guess it 's still within their rules to have {disfmarker} have it on the , uh , t uh , server side . Right ?\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: And this is still {disfmarker} ? Uh , well , y you 're saying here . I c I should just let you go on .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , there were small tricks to make this tandem network work . Uh , {vocalsound} mmm , and one of the trick was to , {vocalsound} um , use {vocalsound} some kind of hierarchical structure where {pause} the silence probability is not computed by {pause} the final tandem network but by the VAD network . Um , so apparently it looks better when , {vocalsound} uh , we use the silence probability from the VAD network\nProfessor B: Huh .\n",
      "PhD D: and we re - scale the other probabilities by one minus the silence probability . Um . So it 's some kind of hierarchical thing , {vocalsound} uh , that Sunil also tried , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} on SPINE and apparently it helps a little bit also . Mmm . And . Yeah , the reason w why {disfmarker} why we did that with the silence probability was that , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Could {disfmarker} ? Uh , uh , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm really sorry . Can you repeat what you were saying about the silence probability ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I only {disfmarker} My mind was some {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . So there is the tandem network that e e e estimates the phone probabilities\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: and the silence probabilities also .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: And {vocalsound} things get better when , instead of using the silence probability computed by the tandem network , we use the silence probability , uh , given by the VAD network ,\nProfessor B: Oh .\nPhD D: um ,\nProfessor B: The VAD network is {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Which is smaller , but maybe , um {disfmarker} So we have a network for the VAD which has one hundred hidden units , and the tandem network has five hundred . Um . So it 's smaller but th the silence probability {pause} from this network seems , uh , better .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Mmm . Uh . Well , it looks strange , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . But {disfmarker}\nPhD D: but it\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD D: Maybe it 's {disfmarker} has something to do to {vocalsound} the fact that {vocalsound} we don't have infinite training data and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: We don't ?\nPhD D: Well ! And so {disfmarker} Well , things are not optimal\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker} Mmm {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Are you {disfmarker} you were going to say why {disfmarker} what made you {disfmarker} wh what led you to do that .\nPhD D: Yeah . Uh , there was a p {comment} problem that we observed , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} that there was {disfmarker} there were , like , many insertions in the {disfmarker} in the system .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Actually plugging in the tandem network was increasing , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think , the number of insertions .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} So it looked strange and then just using the {disfmarker} the other silence probability helps . Mmm . Um {disfmarker} Yeah . The next thing we will do is train this tandem on more data .\n",
      "Professor B: So , you know , in a way what it might {disfmarker} i it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little bit like {vocalsound} combining knowledge sources .\nPhD D: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Right ? Because {vocalsound} the fact that you have these two nets that are different sizes {pause} means they behave a little differently ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: they find different {pause} things . And , um , if you have , um {disfmarker} f the distribution that you have from , uh , f speech sounds is w {comment} sort of one source of knowledge .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And this is {disfmarker} and rather than just taking one minus that to get the other , which is essentially what 's happening , you have this other source of knowledge that you 're putting in there . So you make use of both of them {vocalsound} in {disfmarker} in {pause} what you 're ending up with . Maybe it 's better .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Anyway , you can probably justify anything if what 's use\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: And {disfmarker} and the features are different also . I mean , the VAD doesn't use the same features there are .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Oh !\nPhD D: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: That might be the key , actually .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Cuz you were really thinking about speech versus nonspeech for that .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: That 's a good point .\n",
      "PhD D: Mmm . Uh . Well , there are other things that {vocalsound} we should do but , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} it requires time and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} We have ideas , like {disfmarker} so , these things are like hav having a better VAD . Uh , we have some ideas about that . It would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} probably implies working a little bit on features that are more {vocalsound} suited to a voice activity detection .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Working on the second stream . Of course we have ideas on this also , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} w we need to try different things and {disfmarker} Uh , but their noise estimation , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I mean , back on the second stream , I mean , that 's something we 've talked about for a while . I mean , I think {nonvocalsound} that 's certainly a high hope .\nPhD D: Yeah . {vocalsound} Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , so we have this {disfmarker} this default idea about just using some sort of purely spectral thing ?\nPhD D: Uh , yeah .\nProfessor B: for a second stream ?\nPhD D: But , um , we {disfmarker} we did a first try with this , and it {disfmarker} it {vocalsound} clearly hurts .\nProfessor B: But , uh , how was the stream combined ?\nPhD D: Uh . {vocalsound} It was c it was just combined , um , by the acoustic model . So there was , no neural network for the moment .\n",
      "Professor B: Right . So , I mean , if you just had a second stream that was just spectral and had another neural net and combined there , that {disfmarker} that , uh , {vocalsound} might be good .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mmm . Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Yeah , and the other thing , that noise estimation and th um , maybe try to train {disfmarker} uh , the training data for the t tandem network , right now , is like {disfmarker} i is using the noises from the Aurora task and {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think that people might , {vocalsound} um , try to argue about that because {vocalsound} then in some cases we have the same noises in {disfmarker} for training the network {pause} than the noises that are used for testing ,\n",
      "Professor B: Right .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker} So we have t n uh , to try to get rid of these {disfmarker} {vocalsound} this problem .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Maybe you just put in some other noise , something that 's different .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean , it {disfmarker} it 's probably helpful to have {disfmarker} have a little noise there . But it may be something else\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: th at least you could say it was .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And then {disfmarker} if it doesn't hurt too much , though .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Yeah . That 's a good idea .\nPhD D: Um . Yeah . The last thing is that I think we are getting close to human performance . Well , that 's something I would like to investigate further , but , um , I did , like , um {disfmarker} I did , uh , listen to the m most noisy utterances of the SpeechDat - Car Italian and tried to transcribe them . And , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: So this is a particular human . This is {disfmarker} this i this is Stephane .\nPhD D: Yeah . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad E: St - Stephane .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: that 's the {disfmarker} the flaw of the experiment . This is just {disfmarker} i j {comment} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} it 's just one subject ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Getting close .\n",
      "PhD D: but {disfmarker} but still , uh , {vocalsound} what happens is {disfmarker} is that , {vocalsound} uh , the digit error rate on this is around one percent ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: while our system is currently at seven percent . Um , but what happens also is that if I listen to the , um {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} a re - synthesized version of the speech and {pause} I re - synthesized this using a white noise that 's filtered by a LPC , uh , filter {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Um , well , you can argue , that , uh {disfmarker} that this is not speech ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: so the ear is not trained to recognize this . But s actually it sound like {pause} whispering , so we are {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , I mean , it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: eh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: There 's two problems there . I mean {disfmarker} I mean , so {disfmarker} so the first is {vocalsound} that by doing LPC - twelve with synthesized speech w like you 're saying , uh , it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} i i you 're {disfmarker} you 're adding other degradation .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: Right ? So it 's not just the noise but you 're adding in fact some degradation because it 's only an approximation . Um , and the second thing is {disfmarker} which is m maybe more interesting {disfmarker} is that , um , {comment} {vocalsound} if you do it with whispered speech , you get this number . What if you had {pause} done analysis {comment} re - synthesis and taken the pitch as well ? Alright ? So now you put the pitch in .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: What would the percentage be then ?\nPhD D: Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: See , that 's the question . So , you see , if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's , uh {disfmarker} Let 's say it 's {pause} back down to one percent again .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: That would say at least for people , having the pitch is really , really important , which would be interesting in itself . Um ,\nPhD D: Uh , yeah . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: if i on the other hand , if it stayed up {pause} near five percent , {vocalsound} then I 'd say \" boy , LPC n twelve is pretty crummy \" . You know ?\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: So I I I 'm not sure {disfmarker} I 'm not sure how we can conclude from this anything about {disfmarker} that our system is close to {vocalsound} the human performance .\n",
      "PhD D: Ye Yeah . Well , the point is that eh l ey {disfmarker} the point is that , um , {vocalsound} what I {disfmarker} what I listened to when I re - synthesized the LP - the LPC - twelve {pause} spectrum {vocalsound} is in a way what the system , uh , is hearing , cuz @ @ {disfmarker} all the {disfmarker} all the , um , excitation {disfmarker} all the {disfmarker} well , the excitation is {disfmarker} is not taken into account . That 's what we do with our system . And\n",
      "Professor B: Well , you 're not doing the LPC {disfmarker}\nPhD D: in this case {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I mean , so {disfmarker} so what if you did a {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Well , it 's not LPC , sure ,\nProfessor B: What if you did LPC - twenty ?\nPhD D: but {disfmarker} LPC {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor B: Twenty . Right ? I mean , th the thing is LPC is not a {disfmarker} a really great representation of speech .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , all I 'm saying is that you have in addition to the w the , uh , removal of pitch , {vocalsound} you also are doing , uh , a particular parameterization ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: which , um , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Uh , so , let 's see , how would you do {disfmarker} ? So , fo\nPhD D: But that 's {disfmarker} that 's what we do with our systems . And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: No . Actually , we d we {disfmarker} we don't , because we do {disfmarker} we do , uh , {vocalsound} uh , mel filter bank , for instance . Right ?\nPhD D: Yeah , but is it that {disfmarker} is it that different , I mean ?\nProfessor B: Um , {vocalsound} I don't know what mel , {pause} uh , based synthesis would sound like ,\nPhD D: I\nProfessor B: but certainly the spectra are quite different .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Couldn't you t couldn't you , um , test the human performance on just the original {pause} audio ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . This is the one percent number .\nProfessor B: Yeah , it 's one percent . He 's trying to remove the pitch information\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Oh , oh . OK ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: and make it closer to what {disfmarker} to what we 're seeing as the feature vectors .\n",
      "PhD A: OK . So , y uh , your performance was one percent , and then when you re - synthesize with LPC - twelve it went to five .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . Yeah .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: I mean {disfmarker} We were {disfmarker} we were j It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's a little bit still apples and oranges because we are choosing these features in order to be the best for recognition .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: And , um , i if you listen to them they still might not be very {disfmarker} Even if you made something closer to what we 're gonna {disfmarker} i it might not sound very good .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Uh , and i the degradation from that might {disfmarker} might actually make it even harder , {vocalsound} uh , to understand than the LPC - twelve . So all I 'm saying is that the LPC - twelve {vocalsound} puts in {disfmarker} synthesis puts in some degradation that 's not what we 're used to hearing ,\n",
      "PhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: and is , um {disfmarker} It 's not {disfmarker} it 's not just a question of how much information is there , as if you will always take maximum {vocalsound} advantage of any information that 's presented to you .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: In fact , you {vocalsound} hear some things better than others . And so it {disfmarker} it isn't {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: But , {vocalsound} I agree that it says that , uh , the kind of information that we 're feeding it is probably , {vocalsound} um , um , a little bit , um , minimal . There 's definitely some things that we 've thrown away . And that 's why I was saying it might be interesting if you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} an interesting test of this would be if you {disfmarker} if you actually put the pitch back in . So , you just extract it from the actual speech and put it back in , and see does that {disfmarker} is that {disfmarker} does that make the difference ? If that {disfmarker} if that takes it down to one percent again , {vocalsound} then you 'd say \" OK , it 's {disfmarker} it 's in fact having , um , {vocalsound} not just the spectral envelope but also the {disfmarker} also the {disfmarker} the pitch {vocalsound} that , uh , {comment} @ @ {comment} has the information that people can use , anyway . \"\n",
      "PhD D: Uh - huh . Mmm .\nPhD A: But from this it 's pretty safe to say that the system is with either {vocalsound} two to seven percent away from {pause} the performance of a human . Right ? So it 's somewhere in that range .\nProfessor B: Well , or it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Two {disfmarker} two to six percent .\nProfessor B: Yeah , so {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} it 's one point four times , uh , to , uh , seven times the error ,\n",
      "PhD D: To f seven times , yeah .\nProfessor B: for Stephane .\nPhD D: Um .\nProfessor B: So , uh {disfmarker} uh , but i I don't know . I do don't wanna take you away from other things .\nPhD D: But {disfmarker} {comment} but {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: But that 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's what {disfmarker} that 's the first thing that I would be curious about , is , you know , i i {vocalsound} when you we\n",
      "PhD D: But the signal itself is like a mix of {disfmarker} um , of a {disfmarker} a periodic sound and , {pause} @ @ {comment} uh , unvoiced sound , and the noise\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: which is mostly , {vocalsound} uh , noise . I mean not {pause} periodic . So , {pause} what {disfmarker} what do you mean exactly by putting back the pitch in ? Because {disfmarker}\nPhD A: In the LPC synthesis ? I think {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . You did LPC re - synthesis {disfmarker}\nPhD D: I\nProfessor B: L PC re - synthesis .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: So , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} and you did it with a noise source , rather than with {disfmarker} with a s periodic source .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Right ? So if you actually did real re - synthesis like you do in an LPC synthesizer , where it 's unvoiced you use noise , where it 's voiced you use , {vocalsound} uh , periodic pulses .\nPhD D: Um .\nProfessor B: Right ?\nPhD D: Yeah , but it 's neither {pause} purely voiced or purely unvoiced . Esp - especially because there is noise .\nProfessor B: Well , it might be hard to do it\nPhD D: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: but it but {disfmarker} but the thing is that if you {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , if you detect that there 's periodic {disfmarker} s strong periodic components , then you can use a voiced {disfmarker} voice thing .\nPhD D: Oh . Uh - huh . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I mean , it 's probably not worth your time . It 's {disfmarker} it 's a side thing and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and there 's a lot to do .\nPhD D: Uh - huh , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: But I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm just saying , at least as a thought experiment , {vocalsound} that 's what I would wanna test .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Uh , I wan would wanna drive it with a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a two - source system rather than a {disfmarker} than a one - source system .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And then that would tell you whether in fact it 's {disfmarker} Cuz we 've talked about , like , this harmonic tunneling or {vocalsound} other things that people have done based on pitch , maybe that 's really a key element . Maybe {disfmarker} maybe , uh , {vocalsound} uh , without that , it 's {disfmarker} it 's not possible to do a whole lot better than we 're doing . That {disfmarker} that could be .\nPhD D: Yeah . That 's what I was thinking by doing this es experiment ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: like {disfmarker} Mmm . {vocalsound} Evi\nProfessor B: But , I mean , other than that , I don't think it 's {disfmarker} I mean , other than the pitch de information , {vocalsound} it 's hard to imagine that there 's a whole lot more {vocalsound} in the signal that {disfmarker} that , uh {disfmarker} that we 're throwing away that 's important .\nPhD D: Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yeah . {vocalsound} Mm - hmm . Yeah , right .\n",
      "Professor B: Right ? I mean , we 're using {vocalsound} a fair number of filters in the filter bank and {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Uh , yeah .\nProfessor B: Hmm . Yeah .\nPhD D: Um .\nProfessor B: Yeah . That look\nPhD D: Yeah , that 's it .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} I mean , one {disfmarker} one percent is sort of what I would {disfmarker} I would figure . If somebody was paying really close attention , you might get {disfmarker} I would actually think that if , {vocalsound} you looked at people on various times of the day and different amounts of attention , you might actually get up to three or four percent error on digits . Uh , {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Um .\n",
      "Professor B: So it 's {disfmarker} you know , we 're not {disfmarker} we 're not incredibly far off . On the other hand , with any of these numbers except maybe the one percent , it 's st it 's not actually usable in a commercial system with a full telephone number or something .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . Yeah . At these noise levels .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: Well , yeah . These numbers , I mean . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Good . Um , while we 're still on Aurora stuff {pause} maybe you can talk a little about the status with the , uh , {vocalsound} Wall Street Journal {vocalsound} things for it .\n",
      "PhD A: So I 've , um , downloaded , uh , a couple of things from Mississippi State . Um , one is their {vocalsound} software {disfmarker} their , uh , LVCSR system . Downloaded the latest version of that . Got it compiled and everything . Um , downloaded the scripts . They wrote some scripts that sort of make it easy to run {vocalsound} the system on the Wall Street Journal , uh , data . Um , so I haven't run the scripts yet . Uh , I 'm waiting {disfmarker} there was one problem with part of it and I wrote a note to Joe asking him about it . So I 'm waiting to hear from him . But , um , I did print something out just to give you an idea about where the system is . Uh , {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} on their web site they , uh , did this little table of where their system performs relative to other systems that have done this {disfmarker} this task . And , um , the Mississippi State system {vocalsound} using a bigram grammar , uh , is at about eight point two percent . Other comparable systems from , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} were getting from , uh , like six point nine , six point eight percent . So they 're {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: This is on clean test set ?\nPhD A: This is on clean {disfmarker} on clean stuff . Yeah . They {disfmarker} they 've started a table {vocalsound} where they 're showing their results on various different noise conditions but they {disfmarker} they don't have a whole lot of it filled in and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and I didn't notice until after I 'd printed it out that , um , {vocalsound} they don't say here {pause} what these different testing conditions are .\nProfessor B: \n",
      "PhD A: You actually have to click on it on the web site to see them . So I {disfmarker} I don't know what those {pause} numbers really mean .\nProfessor B: What kind of numbers are they getting on these {disfmarker} on the test conditions ?\n",
      "PhD A: Well , see , I was a little confused because on this table , I 'm {disfmarker} the they 're showing word error rate . But on this one , I {disfmarker} I don't know if these are word error rates because they 're really big . So , {vocalsound} under condition one here it 's ten percent . Then under three it goes to sixty - four point six percent .\nProfessor B: Yeah , that 's probably Aurora .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: So m I guess maybe they 're error rates but they 're , uh {disfmarker} they 're really high .\nProfessor B: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't find that surpri\nPhD A: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , we {disfmarker} W what 's {disfmarker} what 's some of the lower error rates on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} uh , some of the higher error rates on , uh , {vocalsound} some of these w uh , uh , highly mismatched difficult conditions ? What 's a {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Uh . Yeah , it 's around fifteen to twenty percent .\nPhD A: Correct ?\nPhD D: And the baseline , eh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Accuracy ?\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , error rate .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Twenty percent error rate ,\nProfessor B: Yeah . So twenty percent error rate on digits .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh , oh , on digits .\nProfessor B: So if you 're doing {disfmarker} so if you 're doing ,\nPhD D: and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: On digits .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: you know ,\nPhD D: And this is so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} still the baseline .\n",
      "Professor B: sixty - thousand {disfmarker} \nPhD D: Right ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , and if you 're saying sixty - thousand word recognition , getting sixty percent error on some of these noise condition not at all surprising .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: The baseline is sixty percent also on digits ,\nPhD A: Oh , is it ?\nPhD D: on the m more {pause} mismatched conditions .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: So .\n",
      "PhD A: So , yeah , that 's probably what it is then . Yeah . So they have a lot of different conditions that they 're gonna be filling out .\nProfessor B: It 's a bad sign when you {disfmarker} looking at the numbers , you can't tell whether it 's accuracy or error rate .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's gonna be hard . Um , they 're {disfmarker} I I 'm still waiting for them to {pause} release the , um , {vocalsound} multi - CPU version of their scripts , cuz right now their script only handles processing on a single CPU , which will take a really long time to run . So . But their s\nProfessor B: This is for the training ?\n",
      "PhD A: Uh {disfmarker} I beli Yes , for the training {pause} also . And , um , they 're supposed to be coming out with it any time ,\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD A: the multi - CPU one . So , as soon as they get that , then I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll grab those too\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD A: and so w\nProfessor B: Yeah . Cuz we have to get started ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: cuz it 's {disfmarker} cuz , uh ,\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . I 'll go ahead and try to run it though with just the single CPU one ,\nProfessor B: if the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: and {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they , {vocalsound} um , released like a smaller data set that you can use that only takes like sixteen hours to train and stuff . So I can {disfmarker} I can run it on that just to make sure that the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the thing works and everything .\n",
      "Professor B: Oh ! Good . Yeah . Cuz we 'll {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: I guess the actual evaluation will be in six weeks or something . So . Is that about right {pause} you think ?\nPhD D: Uh , we don't know yet , I {disfmarker} I think .\nProfessor B: Really , we don't know ?\nPhD D: Uh - huh . Um .\nPhD A: It wasn't on the conference call this morning ?\nProfessor B: Hmm .\nPhD D: No .\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm . Did they say anything on the conference call {pause} about , um , how the {pause} Wall Street Journal part of the test was going to be {pause} run ? Because I {disfmarker} I thought I remembered hearing that some sites {vocalsound} were saying that they didn't have the compute to be able to run the Wall Street Journal stuff at their place ,\nPhD D: No . Mmm .\nPhD A: so there was some talk about having Mississippi State run {pause} the systems for them . And I {disfmarker} Did {disfmarker} did that come up at all ?\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , no . Well , this {disfmarker} first , this was not the point at all of this {disfmarker} the meeting today\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nPhD D: and ,\nProfessor B: Some\nPhD D: uh , frankly , I don't know because I d {comment} didn't read also the {pause} most recent mails about {vocalsound} the large - vocabulary task . But , {vocalsound} uh , did you {disfmarker} do you still , uh , get the mails ? You 're not on the mailing list or what ?\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm - mm . The only , um , mail I get is from Mississippi State {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: so {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oh , yeah . So we should have a look at this .\nPhD A: about their system . I {disfmarker} I don't get any {pause} mail about {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I have to say , there 's uh something funny - sounding about saying that one of these big companies doesn't have enough cup compute power do that , so they 're having to have it done by Mississippi State .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: It just {disfmarker} {vocalsound} just sounds funny .\nPhD A: Yeah . It does .\nProfessor B: But ,\nPhD A: Yeah . I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm wondering about that\nProfessor B: anyway .\nPhD A: because there 's this whole issue about , you know , simple tuning parameters , like word insertion penalties .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And {pause} whether or not those are going to be tuned or not , and {disfmarker} {comment} So .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean , it makes a big difference . If you change your front - end , you know , the scale is completely {disfmarker} can be completely different , so . It seems reasonable that that at least should be tweaked to match the front - end . But {disfmarker}\nPhD D: You didn't get any answer from {pause} Joe ?\nPhD A: I did , but Joe {pause} said , you know , \" what you 're saying makes sense\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: and {pause} I don't know \" . So he doesn't know what the answer is .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: I mean , that 's th We had this back and forth a little bit about , {vocalsound} you know , are sites gonna {disfmarker} are you gonna run this data for different sites ? And , well , if {disfmarker} if Mississippi State runs it , then maybe they 'll do a little optimization on that {pause} parameter , and , uh {disfmarker} But then he wasn't asked to run it for anybody . So i it 's {disfmarker} it 's just not clear yet what 's gonna happen .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Uh , he 's been putting this stuff out on their web site and {disfmarker} for people to grab but I haven't heard too much about what 's happening .\n",
      "Professor B: So it could be {disfmarker} I mean , Chuck and I had actually talked about this a couple times , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} over some lunches , I think , {vocalsound} that , um , {vocalsound} one thing that we might wanna do {disfmarker} The - there 's this question about , you know , what do you wanna scale ? Suppose y you can't adjust {vocalsound} these word insertion penalties and so forth , so you have to do everything at the level of the features . What could you do ? And , uh , one thing I had suggested at an earlier time was maybe some sort of scaling , some sort of root or {disfmarker} or something of the , um , {vocalsound} uh , features . But the problem with that is that isn't quite the same , it occurred to me later , because what you really want to do is scale the , uh , @ @ {comment} the range of the likelihoods rather than {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Nnn , the dist Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: But , {vocalsound} what might get at something similar , it just occurred to me , is kind of an intermediate thing {disfmarker} is because we do this strange thing that we do with the tandem system , at least in that system what you could do {vocalsound} is take the , um , {vocalsound} uh , values that come out of the net , which are something like log probabilities , and scale those . And then , uh , um {disfmarker} {pause} then at least those things would have the right values or the right {disfmarker} the right range . And then that goes into the rest of it and then that 's used as observations . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's , {vocalsound} um , another way to do it .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . But , these values are not directly used as probabilities anyway .\nProfessor B: I know they 're not .\nPhD D: So there are {disfmarker} there is {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I know they 're not . But {disfmarker} but , you know {disfmarker} So because what we 're doing is pretty strange and complicated , we don't really know what the effect is {pause} at the other end .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , {vocalsound} um , {pause} my thought was maybe {disfmarker} I mean , they 're not used as probabilities , but the log probabilities {disfmarker} we 're taking advantage of the fact that something like log probabilities has more of a Gaussian shape than Gaus - than {vocalsound} probabilities , and so we can model them better . So , {pause} in a way we 're taking advantage of the fact that they 're probabilities , because they 're this quantity that looks kind of Gaussian when you take it 's log . So , {comment} {vocalsound} uh , maybe {disfmarker} maybe it would have a {disfmarker} a reasonable effect to do that .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I d I don't know . But , {pause} I mean , I guess we still haven't had a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a ruling back on this . And we may end up being in a situation where we just you know really can't change the {vocalsound} word insertion penalty . But the other thing we could do {vocalsound} is {disfmarker} also we could {disfmarker} I mean , this {disfmarker} this may not help us , {vocalsound} uh , in the evaluation but it might help us in our understanding at least . We might , {vocalsound} just run it with different insper insertion penalties , and show that , uh , \" well , OK , not changing it , {vocalsound} playing the rules the way you wanted , we did this . But in fact if we did that , it made a {disfmarker} {pause} a big difference . \"\n",
      "PhD A: I wonder if it {disfmarker} it might be possible to , uh , simulate the back - end with some other system . So we {disfmarker} we get our f front - end features , and then , uh , as part of the process of figuring out the scaling of these features , {comment} you know , if we 're gonna take it to a root or to a power or something , {comment} {vocalsound} we have some back - end that we attach onto our features that sort of simulates what would be happening .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Um ,\n",
      "Professor B: And just adjust it until it 's the best number ?\nPhD A: and just adjust it until that {disfmarker} our l version of the back - end , uh , decides that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , we can probably use the real thing , can't we ? And then jus just , uh , {vocalsound} use it on a reduced test set or something .\nPhD A: Yeah . Oh , yeah . That 's true .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: And then we just use that to determine some scaling factor that we use .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . So I mean , I I think that that 's a reasonable thing to do and the only question is what 's the actual knob that we use ?\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And the knob that we use should {disfmarker} uh , uh , unfortunately , like I say , I don't know the analytic solution to this cuz what we really want to do is change the scale of the likelihoods ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: not the cha not the scale of the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the {pause} observations . But {disfmarker} but , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Out of curiosity , what {disfmarker} what kind of recognizer {pause} is the one from Mississippi State ?\nPhD A: Uh , w what do you mean when you say \" what kind \" ?\nGrad E: Is it {disfmarker} ? Um , is it like a {pause} Gaussian mixture model ?\nPhD A: Yeah . Gaussian mixture model .\n",
      "Grad E: OK .\nPhD A: It 's the same system that they use {pause} when they participate in the Hub - five evals . It 's a , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} sort of {pause} came out of , uh {disfmarker} uh , looking a lot like HTK . I mean , they started off with {disfmarker} um , when they were building their system they were always comparing to HTK to make sure they were getting similar results . And so , {vocalsound} it 's a Gaussian mixture system , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Do they have the same sort of mix - down sort of procedure , where they {vocalsound} start off with a small number of some things\nPhD A: I don't know . Yeah . And then {pause} divide the mixtures in half .\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker} ? Yeah .\nPhD A: I don't know if they do that . I 'm not really sure .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: D Do you know what kind of tying they use ? Are they {disfmarker} they sort of {disfmarker} some sort of {disfmarker} a bunch of Gaussians that they share across everything ? Or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or if it 's {disfmarker} ?\nPhD A: Yeah , th I have {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't have it up here but I have a {disfmarker} {pause} the whole system description , that describes exactly what their {pause} system is\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: and I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure . But , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD A: It 's some kind of a mixture of Gaussians and , {vocalsound} uh , clustering and , uh {disfmarker} They 're {disfmarker} they 're trying to put in sort of all of the standard features that people use nowadays .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So the other , uh , Aurora thing maybe is {disfmarker} I I dunno if any of this is gonna {vocalsound} {pause} come in in time to be relevant , but , uh , we had talked about , uh , {comment} Guenter {vocalsound} playing around , uh , uh , over in Germany\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker} and , @ @ {comment} uh , {pause} possibly coming up with something {vocalsound} that would , uh , {pause} uh , fit in later . Uh , I saw that other mail where he said that he {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , it wasn't going to work for him to do CVS .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah . So now he has a version of the software .\nProfessor B: So he just has it all sitting there . Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . Um {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So if he 'll {disfmarker} he might work on improving the noise estimate or on {vocalsound} some histogram things , or {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I just saw the Eurospeech {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} we didn't talk about it at our meeting but I just saw the {disfmarker} just read the paper . Someone , I forget the name , {comment} and {disfmarker} and Ney , uh , about histogram equalization ? Did you see that one ?\n",
      "PhD D: Um , it was a poster . Or {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . I mean , I just read the paper .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I didn't see the poster .\nPhD D: Yeah . Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It was something {pause} similar to n {vocalsound} on - line normalization finally {disfmarker} I mean , in {vocalsound} the idea of {disfmarker} of normalizing {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . But it 's a little more {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's a little finer , right ? So they had like ten quantiles\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and they adjust the distribution .\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor B: So you {disfmarker} you have the distributions from the training set ,\nPhD D: N\n",
      "Professor B: and then , uh {disfmarker} So this is just a {disfmarker} a histogram of {disfmarker} of {vocalsound} the amplitudes , I guess . Right ? And then {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um , people do this in image processing some .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: You have this kind of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of histogram of {disfmarker} of levels of brightness or whatever . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and then , {vocalsound} when you get a new {disfmarker} new thing that you {disfmarker} you want to adjust to be {pause} better in some way , {vocalsound} you adjust it so that the histogram of the new data looks like the old data .\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: You do this kind of {vocalsound} piece - wise linear or , {vocalsound} uh , some kind of piece - wise approximation . They did a {disfmarker} uh one version that was piece - wise linear and another that had a power law thing between them {disfmarker} {vocalsound} between the {pause} points . And , uh , they said they s they sort of see it in a way as s for the speech case {comment} {disfmarker} as being kind of a generalization of spectral subtraction in a way , because , you know , in spectral subtraction you 're trying to {vocalsound} get rid of this excess energy . Uh , you know , it 's not supposed to be there . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and , uh , this is sort of {pause} {vocalsound} adjusting it for {disfmarker} for a lot of different levels . And then they have s they have some kind of , {vocalsound} uh , {pause} a floor or something ,\n",
      "Grad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: so if it gets too low you don't {disfmarker} don't do it .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: And they {disfmarker} they claimed very nice results ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So is this a histogram across different frequency bins ?\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor B: Um , I think this i You know , I don't remember that . Do you remember {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD D: I think they have , yeah , different histograms . I uh {disfmarker} Something like one per {pause} frequency band ,\nProfessor B: One {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So , one histogram per frequency bin .\nProfessor B: One per critical {disfmarker}\nPhD D: or {disfmarker} But I did {disfmarker} Yeah , I guess .\nPhD A: And that 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: But I should read the paper . I just went {pause} through the poster quickly ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: So th\n",
      "Professor B: And I don't remember whether it was {pause} filter bank things\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD D: and I didn't {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: or whether it was FFT bins\nPhD A: Huh .\nProfessor B: or {disfmarker}\nPhD A: And {disfmarker} and that {disfmarker} that , um , {pause} histogram represents {pause} the {pause} different energy levels that have been seen at that {pause} frequency ?\nProfessor B: I don't remember that . And how often they {disfmarker} you 've seen them . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh - huh .\nGrad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . And they do {disfmarker} they said that they could do it for the test {disfmarker} So you don't have to change the training . You just do a measurement over the training . And then , uh , for testing , uh , you can do it for one per utterance . Even relatively short utterances . And they claim it {disfmarker} it works pretty well .\n",
      "PhD A: So they , uh {disfmarker} Is the idea that you {disfmarker} you run a test utterance through some histogram generation thing and then you compare the histograms and that tells you {vocalsound} what to do to the utterance to make it more like {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor B: I guess in pri Yeah . In principle .\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: I didn't read carefully how they actually implemented it ,\nPhD A: Hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: whether it was some , {vocalsound} uh , on - line thing , or whether it was a second pass , or what . But {disfmarker} but they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} That {disfmarker} that was sort of the idea .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: So that {disfmarker} that seemed , you know , different . We 're sort of curious about , uh , what are some things that are , u u um , {vocalsound} @ @ {comment} {pause} conceptually quite different from what we 've done .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Cuz we {disfmarker} you know , one thing that w that , uh , Stephane and Sunil seemed to find , {vocalsound} uh , was , you know , they could actually make a unified piece of software that handled a range of different things that people were talking about , and it was really just sort of setting of different {pause} constants . And it would turn , you know , one thing into another . It 'd turn Wiener filtering into spectral subtraction , or whatever . But there 's other things that we 're not doing . So , we 're not making any use of pitch , uh , uh , which again , might {disfmarker} might be important , uh , because the stuff between the harmonics is probably a schmutz . And {disfmarker} and the , {vocalsound} uh , transcribers will have fun with that . Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And , um , the , uh , stuff at the harmonics isn't so much . And {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker} And we there 's this overall idea of really sort of matching the {disfmarker} the hi distributions somehow . Uh , not just , um , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} not just subtracting off your estimate of the noise . So . So I guess , uh , {vocalsound} Guenter 's gonna play around with some of these things now over this next {pause} period ,\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , I dunno .\nProfessor B: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: I don't have feedback from him , but\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: I guess he 's gonna , maybe {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , he 's got it anyway , so he can .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So potentially if he came up with something that was useful , like a diff a better noise estimation module or something , he could ship it to you guys u up there\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: and\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: we could put it in .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Yeah . So , that 's good . So , why don't we just , uh , um {disfmarker} I think starting {disfmarker} {pause} starting a w couple weeks from now , especially if you 're not gonna be around for a while , we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll be shifting more over to some other {disfmarker} {vocalsound} other territory . But , uh , uh , {comment} uh , n not {disfmarker} not so much in this meeting about Aurora , but {disfmarker} but , uh , uh , maybe just , uh , quickly today about {disfmarker} maybe you could just say a little bit about what you 've been talking about with Michael . And {disfmarker} and then Barry can say something about {pause} what {comment} {disfmarker} what we 're talking about .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . So Michael Kleinschmidt , who 's a PHD student from Germany , {vocalsound} showed up this week . He 'll be here for about six months . And he 's done some work using {vocalsound} an auditory model {pause} of , um , {vocalsound} human hearing , and {pause} using that f uh , to generate speech recognition features . And {pause} he did {vocalsound} work back in Germany {vocalsound} with , um , a toy recognition system {vocalsound} using , um , isolated {vocalsound} digit recognition {vocalsound} as the task . It was actually just a single - layer neural network {vocalsound} that classified words {disfmarker} classified digits , {vocalsound} in fact . Um , and {pause} he tried that on {disfmarker} I think on some Aurora data and got results that he thought {pause} seemed respectable . And he w he 's coming here to u u use it on a {vocalsound} uh , a real speech recognition system . So I 'll be working with him on that . And , um , maybe I should say a little more about these features , although I don't understand them that well . The {disfmarker} I think it 's a two - stage idea . And , um , {vocalsound} the first stage of these features correspond to what 's called the peripheral {vocalsound} auditory system . And {vocalsound} I guess that is like {vocalsound} a filter bank with a compressive nonlinearity . And {vocalsound} I 'm - I 'm not sure what we have @ @ in there that isn't already modeled in something like , {vocalsound} um , {pause} PLP . I should learn more about that . And then {vocalsound} the second stage {pause} is , um , {vocalsound} the most different thing , I think , from what we usually do . It 's , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} it computes features which are , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} based on {disfmarker} sort of like based on diffe different w um , wavelet basis functions {vocalsound} used to analyze {vocalsound} the input .  So th he uses analysis functions called {vocalsound} Gabor functions , um , {vocalsound} which have a certain {vocalsound} extent , um , {vocalsound} in time and in frequency . And {vocalsound} the idea is these are used to sample , {vocalsound} um , the signal in a represented as a time - frequency representation . So you 're {pause} sampling some piece of this time - frequency plane . And , um , {vocalsound} that , {vocalsound} um , is {disfmarker} is interesting , cuz , {vocalsound} @ @ for {disfmarker} for one thing , you could use it , {vocalsound} um , in a {disfmarker} a multi - scale way . You could have these {disfmarker} instead of having everything {disfmarker} like we use a twenty - five millisecond or so analysis window , {vocalsound} typically , um , and that 's our time scale for features , but you could {disfmarker} {vocalsound} using this , um , basis function idea , you could have some basis functions which have a lot longer time scale and , um , some which have a lot shorter , and {vocalsound} so it would be like {pause} a set of multi - scale features . So he 's interested in , um {disfmarker} Th - this is {disfmarker} because it 's , um {disfmarker} there are these different parameters for the shape of these {vocalsound} basis functions , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} there are a lot of different possible basis functions . And so he {disfmarker} {vocalsound} he actually does {vocalsound} an optimization procedure to choose an {disfmarker} {vocalsound} an optimal set of basis functions out of all the possible ones .\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm . H What does he do to choose those ?\n",
      "Grad C: The method he uses is kind of funny {disfmarker} is , {comment} {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} he starts with {disfmarker} he has a set of M of them . Um , he {disfmarker} and then {pause} he uses that to classify {disfmarker} I mean , he t he tries , um , {vocalsound} using {pause} just M minus one of them . So there are M possible subsets of this {vocalsound} length - M vector . He tries classifying , using each of the M {vocalsound} possible sub - vectors .\n",
      "PhD D: Hmm .\nGrad C: Whichever sub - vector , {vocalsound} um , works the {disfmarker} the best , I guess , he says {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the fe feature that didn't use was the most useless feature ,\nProfessor B: Y yeah . Gets thrown out . Yeah .\nGrad C: so we 'll throw it out and we 're gonna randomly select another feature {pause} from the set of possible basis functions .\nPhD A: Hmm !\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: So it 's a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: So i so it 's actuall\nPhD A: it 's a little bit like a genetic algorithm or something in a way .\nProfessor B: Well , it 's {disfmarker} it 's much simpler .\nGrad E: It 's like a greedy {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: But it 's {disfmarker} but it 's {disfmarker} uh , it 's {disfmarker} there 's a lot {disfmarker} number of things I like about it , let me just say .\nPhD A: Greedy .\n",
      "Professor B: So , first thing , well , you 're absolutely right . I mean , {vocalsound} i i {nonvocalsound} in truth , {pause} both pieces of this are {disfmarker} have their analogies in stuff we already do . But it 's a different take {vocalsound} at how to approach it and potentially one that 's m maybe a bit more systematic than what we 've done , uh , and a b a bit more inspiration from {disfmarker} from auditory things . So it 's {disfmarker} so I think it 's a neat thing to try . The primary features , {vocalsound} um , are in fact {disfmarker} Yeah , essentially , it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , you know , PLP or {disfmarker} or mel cepstrum , or something like that . You 've {disfmarker} you 've got some , {vocalsound} uh , compression . We always have some compression . We always have some {disfmarker} you know , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the kind of filter bank with a kind of {vocalsound} {vocalsound} quasi - log scaling . Um , {vocalsound} if you put in {disfmarker} if you also include the RASTA in it {disfmarker} i RASTA {disfmarker} the filtering being done in the log domain {vocalsound} has an AGC - like , uh , characteristic , which , you know , people typi typically put in these kind of , {vocalsound} uh , {pause} um , {vocalsound} uh , auditory front - ends . So it 's very , very similar , uh , but it 's not exactly the same . Um , I would agree that the second one is {disfmarker} is somewhat more different but , {vocalsound} um , it 's mainly different in that the things that we have been doing like that have been {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , had a different kind of motivation and have ended up with different kinds of constraints . So , for instance , if you look at the LDA RASTA stuff , {vocalsound} you know , basically what they do is they {disfmarker} they look at the different eigenvectors out of the LDA and they form filters out of it . Right ? And those {pause} filters have different , uh , kinds of temporal extents and temporal characteristics . And so in fact they 're multi - scale . But , they 're not sort of systematically multi - scale , like \" let 's start here and go to there , and go to there , and go to there \" , and so forth . It 's more like , {vocalsound} you run it on this , you do discriminant analysis , and you find out what 's helpful . \n",
      "Grad C: I it 's multi - scale because you use several of these in parallel ,\nProfessor B: Yeah . They use several of them .\nGrad C: is that right ? Of {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , I mean , you don't have to but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but , uh , Hynek has . Um , but it 's also , uh {disfmarker}  Hyn - when Hynek 's had people do this kind of LDA analysis , they 've done it on frequency direction and they 've done it on the time direction . I think he may have had people sometimes doing it on both simultaneously {disfmarker} some two - D {disfmarker} and that would be the closest to these Gabor function kind of things . Uh , but I don't think they 've done that much of that . And , uh , the other thing that 's interesting {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the feature selection thing , it 's a simple method , but I kinda like it . Um , {vocalsound} there 's a {disfmarker} {pause} a old , old method for feature selection . I mean , {pause} eh , uh , I remember people referring to it as old when I was playing with it twenty years ago , so I know it 's pretty old , uh , called Stepwise Linear Discriminant Analysis in which you {disfmarker} which {disfmarker} I think it 's used in social sciences a lot . So , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you pick the best feature . And then {vocalsound} you take {disfmarker} y you find the next feature that 's the best in combination with it . And then so on and so on . And what {disfmarker} what Michael 's describing seems to me much , much better , because the problem with the stepwise discriminant analysis is that you don't know that {disfmarker} you know , if you 've {vocalsound} picked the right set of features . Just because something 's a good feature doesn't mean that you should be adding it . So , {vocalsound} um , {pause} uh , here at least you 're starting off with all of them , and you 're {vocalsound} throwing out useless features . I think that 's {disfmarker} that seems , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that seems like a lot better idea . Uh , you 're always looking at things in combination with other features . Um , so the only thing is , of course , there 's this {disfmarker} this artificial question of {disfmarker} of , uh , {vocalsound} exactly how you {disfmarker} how you a how you assess it and if {disfmarker} if your order had been different in throwing them out . I mean , it still isn't necessarily really optimal , but it seems like a pretty good heuristic . So I th I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I think it 's kinda neat stuff .\n",
      "Grad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , uh , the thing that I wanted to {disfmarker} to add to it also was to have us use this in a multi - stream way .\nGrad E: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , so {disfmarker} so that , um , {vocalsound} when you come up with these different things , {vocalsound} and these different functions , {vocalsound} you don't necessarily just put them all into one huge vector , but perhaps {vocalsound} you {vocalsound} have some of them in one stream and some of them in another stream , and so forth . And , um , um , {comment} um {disfmarker} And we 've also talked a little bit about , uh , {vocalsound} uh , Shihab Shamma 's stuff , in which {vocalsound} you {disfmarker} the way you look at it is that there 's these different mappings and some of them emphasize , uh , upward moving , {vocalsound} uh , energy and fre and frequency . And some are emphasizing downward and {vocalsound} fast things and slow things and {disfmarker} and {pause} so forth . So . So there 's a bunch of stuff to look at . But , uh , I think we 're sorta gonna start off with what {vocalsound} he , uh , came here with and branch out {disfmarker} {vocalsound} branch out from there . And his advisor is here , too , {vocalsound} at the same time . So , he 'll be another {pause} interesting source of {pause} wisdom .\n",
      "Grad E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: So .\nGrad E: As {disfmarker} as we were talking about this I was thinking , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} whether there 's a relationship between {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} between Michael 's approach to , uh , some {disfmarker} some sort of optimal brain damage or optimal brain surgeon on the neural nets .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad C: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: So , like , if we have , um {disfmarker} we have our {disfmarker} we have our RASTA features and {disfmarker} and presumably the neural nets are {disfmarker} are learning some sort of a nonlinear mapping , {vocalsound} uh , from the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the features {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to this {disfmarker} this probability posterior space .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: Right ? And , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} and each of the hidden units is learning some sort of {disfmarker} some sort of {disfmarker} some sort of pattern . Right ? And it could be , like {disfmarker} {vocalsound} like these , um {disfmarker} these auditory patterns that Michael {pause} is looking at . And then when you 're looking at the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the , uh , {pause} um , {vocalsound} the best features , {vocalsound} you know , you can take out {disfmarker} you can do the {disfmarker} do this , uh , brain surgery by taking out , {vocalsound} um , hidden units that don't really help at all .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm . Or the {disfmarker} or features .\nGrad E: And this is k sorta like {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Right ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , y actually , you make me think a {disfmarker} a very important point here is that , um , {vocalsound} if we a again try to look at how is this different from what we 're already doing , {vocalsound} uh , there 's a {disfmarker} a , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a nasty argument that could be made th that it 's {disfmarker} it 's not different at {disfmarker} at all , because , uh {disfmarker} if you ignore the {disfmarker} the selection part because we are going into a {disfmarker} a very powerful , {vocalsound} uh , nonlinearity that , uh , in fact is combining over time and frequency , and is coming up with its own {disfmarker} you know , better than Gabor functions its , you know , neural net functions ,\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: its {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} whatever it finds to be best .\nGrad C: \n",
      "Professor B: Um , so you could argue that in fact it {disfmarker} But I {disfmarker} I don't actually believe that argument because I know that , um , {vocalsound} you can , uh {disfmarker} computing features is useful , even though {pause} in principle you haven't {pause} {vocalsound} added anything {disfmarker} in fact , you subtracted something , from the original waveform {disfmarker} You know , uh , if you 've {disfmarker} you 've processed it in some way you 've typically lost something {disfmarker} some information . And so , {vocalsound} you 've lost information and yet it does better with {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with features than it does with the waveform . So , uh , I {disfmarker} I know that i sometimes it 's useful to {disfmarker} {pause} to constrain things . So that 's {vocalsound} why it really seems like the constraint {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in all this stuff it 's the constraints that are actually what matters . Because if it wasn't {pause} the constraints that mattered , then we would 've completely solved this problem long ago , because long ago we already knew how to put waveforms into powerful statistical mechanisms . So .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Well , if we had infinite processing power and {pause} data , {comment} I guess , using the waveform could {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah Uh , then it would work . Yeah , I agree . Yeah . There 's the problem .\nPhD D: So , that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Then it would work . But {disfmarker} but , I mean , i it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} With finite {pause} of those things {disfmarker} I mean , uh , we {disfmarker} we have done experiments where we literally have put waveforms in and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , uh ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: we kept the number of parameters the same and so forth , and it used a lot of training data . And it {disfmarker} and it {disfmarker} it , uh {disfmarker} not infinite but a lot , and then compared to the number parameters {disfmarker} and it {disfmarker} it , uh {disfmarker} it just doesn't do nearly as well . So , anyway the point is that you want to suppress {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: it 's not just having the maximum information , you want to suppress , {vocalsound} uh , the aspects of the input signal that are not helpful for {disfmarker} for the discrimination you 're trying to make . So . So maybe just briefly , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Well , that sort of segues into {pause} what {disfmarker} what I 'm doing .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Um , {vocalsound} so , uh , the big picture is k um , {vocalsound} come up with a set of , {vocalsound} uh , intermediate categories , then build intermediate category classifiers , then do recognition , and , um , improve speech recognition in that way . Um , so right now I 'm in {disfmarker} in the phase where {vocalsound} I 'm looking at {disfmarker} at , um , deciding on a initial set of intermediate categories . And {vocalsound} I 'm looking {vocalsound} for data data - driven {pause} methods that can help me find , {vocalsound} um , a set of intermediate categories {vocalsound} of speech that , uh , will help me to discriminate {pause} later down the line . And one of the ideas , {vocalsound} um , that was to take a {disfmarker} take a neural net {disfmarker} train {disfmarker} train an ordinary neural net {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , to learn the posterior probabilities of phones . And so , um , at the end of the day you have this neural net and it has hidden {disfmarker} {vocalsound} hidden units . And each of these hidden units is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , is learning some sort of pattern . And so , um , what {disfmarker} what are these patterns ?\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: I don't know . Um , and I 'm gonna to try to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to look at those patterns {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to see , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} from those patterns {disfmarker} uh , presumably those are important patterns for discriminating between phone classes . And maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} maybe some , uh , intermediate categories can come from {vocalsound} just looking at the patterns of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , that the neural net learns .\n",
      "Professor B: Be - before you get on the next part l let me just point out that s there 's {disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker} a pretty nice {comment} {vocalsound} relationship between what you 're talking about doing and what you 're talking about doing there . Right ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: So , {vocalsound} it seems to me that , you know , if you take away the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} {pause} the difference of this {pause} primary features , {vocalsound} and , say , you use {disfmarker} as we had talked about maybe doing {disfmarker} you use P - RASTA - PLP or something for the {disfmarker} the primary features , {vocalsound} um , then this feature discovery , {pause} uh , uh , thing {vocalsound} is just what he 's talking about doing , too , except that he 's talking about doing them in order to discover {pause} intermediate categories that correspond {vocalsound} to these {disfmarker} uh , uh , what these sub - features are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} are showing you . And , um , {vocalsound} the other difference is that , um , {vocalsound} he 's doing this in a {disfmarker} in a multi - band setting , which means that he 's constraining himself {vocalsound} to look across time in some f relatively limited , uh , uh , spectral extent . Right ? And whereas in {disfmarker} in this case you 're saying \" let 's just do it unconstrained \" . So they 're {disfmarker} they 're really pretty related and maybe they 'll be {disfmarker} at some point where we 'll see the {disfmarker} the connections a little better and {vocalsound} connect them .\n",
      "Grad C: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm . Um . Yeah , so {disfmarker} so that 's the {disfmarker} that 's the first part {disfmarker} uh , one {disfmarker} one of the ideas to get at some {disfmarker} {vocalsound} some patterns of intermediate categories . Um , {vocalsound} the other one {pause} was , {vocalsound} um , to , {vocalsound} uh , come up with a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a model {disfmarker} {comment} um , a graphical model , {vocalsound} that treats {pause} the intermediate categories {vocalsound} as hidden {disfmarker} hidden variables , latent variables , that we don't know anything about , but that through , {vocalsound} um , s statistical training and the EM algorithm , {vocalsound} um , at the end of the day , {vocalsound} we have , um {disfmarker} we have learned something about these {disfmarker} these latent , um {disfmarker} latent variables which happen to correspond to {vocalsound} intermediate categories . Um . {vocalsound} {nonvocalsound} Yeah , and so those are the {disfmarker} the two directions that I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm looking into right now . And , uh , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah . I guess that 's {disfmarker} that 's it .\n"
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  },
  {
    "id": 59,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting of the standing committee took place to discuss matters pertinent to the Coronavirus pandemic. The main issue at stake was to ensure that the government was doing everything in its power to assist vulnerable Canadians during the pandemic, as well as to help reopen the economy. While many discussions focused on temporary assistance that the government could provide during the pandemic, like a $25 weekly bump in old-age security, some discussions talked about the intersection of these programs with general social welfare initiatives, like reducing homelessness and poverty. Canada's agricultural and fishing economy was highlighted as one of the industries in the greatest need for stimulus. Conservative ministers tried to bring attention to the government's recent gun control laws.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order.  Welcome to the third meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, April20, the committee is meeting for the purposes of considering ministerial announcements, allowing members to present petitions, and questioning ministers of the crown, including the Prime Minister, in respect of the COVID-19 pandemic. I understand there's an agreement to observe a moment of silence in memory of the six members of the Canadian Armed Forces who lost their lives last Wednesday in a helicopter crash off the coast of Greece.  We'll return to order. Colleagues, we meet today to continue our discussion about how our country is dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic. As we do, Canadians, like everyone around the world, are doing their best to live their lives until things improve. Meanwhile, as we look towards the future, I believe that it is also important to remember our past and to continue to mark the important moments in our shared history. At this very moment, the Dominion Carillonneur, Dr. Andrea McCrady, is performing a special recital to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands by the Canadian Forces. In May 1945, Canadian Forces played a major role in liberating the Dutch people from Nazi occupation. May 5 is now a national holiday in the Netherlands that commemorates the event and the great friendship that now exists between our two countries. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Please be aware that the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee. Let me remind you that, as in the House or in committee, members may not take photographs of their colleagues or film the proceedings. In order to facilitate the work of our interpreters and ensure orderly meetings, I will outline a few rules. Interpretation of this video conference will be done as it is at normal committee meetings and in the House. At the bottom of your screen, you can choose floor, English or French. As you have seen, I change as I am speaking. I have now switched over to English in order to speak English. If you look at the bottom, you have a little flag that indicates whether it's English or French, and that's how we will be speaking. It makes it easier. That was where we had a little bit of a glitch in the last session. I understand that there are no statements by ministers. We can now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes.  I would like to remind members that petitions presented during a meeting of the special committee must already have been certified by the clerk of petitions.  In addition, to ensure that the petition is considered to have been properly presented, the certificate of the petition and each page of the petition for petitions certified in a previous Parliament should be emailed to the committee no later than 6 p.m. on the day before the committee. I thank all the members for their usual co-operation. Thank you all. Now we'll proceed to presenting petitions. Our first petition comes from the honourable member for Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to be presenting two petitions today. The first petition is with respect to government Bill C-7. Petitioners raised concerns that this bill removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime. It includes removing the mandatory 10-day reflection period and the number of required witnesses who will witness a person's consent. The petitioners urge the House of Commons to immediately discontinue the removal of safeguards for people requesting euthanasia, and to put in place additional measures to protect vulnerable people. This would require that bill to be amended or not passed. The second petition is with respect to Senate public bill S-204. This is on organ harvesting and trafficking. Petitioners call on members of the House, and hopefully the Senate as well, to support Bill S-204, which would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent. It would also create provisions under which a person could be made inadmissible to Canada if they had been involved in organ harvesting or trafficking. Thank you very much.\n",
      "The Chair: Thank you. I want to remind all the members that there are specific headsets that have been mandated to all of us. If you don't have one, please talk to your IT ambassador and they will get one to you as quickly as possible. The reason for them is not so much for what you hear, but that our interpreters are working and there are work conditions that really make it difficult. Part of that is not having the appropriate boom on your headset, which will make it very difficult for them to hear and interpret for our members. Now we go to the member for BeachesEast York, Mr. Erskine-Smith.\n",
      "Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith (BeachesEast York, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I had to learn how to tie my tie all over again. It's been so long. I want to thank Jenna Robar, who's led this petition e-2453. The petitioners have noted that there are approximately 60 indigenous languages in Canada and that 2019, last year, was declared by the UN to be the year of indigenous languages. They draw attention to article 13 of the UNDRIP and to the TRC's calls to action numbers 13 to 16. Fundamentally, they call upon the Government of Canada to recognize indigenous languages as being official languages of Canada and to have each language recognized nationally, with implementations on regional and provincial levels, acknowledging that many regions have different languages.\n",
      "Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am proud to present a petition on behalf of one of my constituents, Myles Lynch of St. Andrews West in my riding. Myles made history as the first Canadian ever to survive three double-lung transplants. Myles lives with cystic fibrosis and has had three lung transplants in the last five years, and he's only 22 years old. Myles created a documentary called 8 Thousand Myles, which had a few showings in my riding. It documented his journey across Canada. One thing Myles has been advocating for is the creation of a national opt-out program for organ donation. Myles asked me how he could help raise awareness of that issue. I mentioned to him e-petitions online and getting people across the country to sign them. I am proud to have this certified today, with 1,318 signatures, asking the Standing Committee on Health to launch a study into the feasibility of the creation of a national opt-out program. I give kudos to Myles not only for his strength personally but also for his advocacy for others and for saving lives in our country by advocating for a better and an improved organ donation system. Kudos to Myles. I'm proud to present this petition today.\n",
      "Mr. Peter Julian (New WestminsterBurnaby, NDP): Mr. Chair, I'm very pleased to present this certified petition on behalf of several dozen residents of Toronto, Mississauga and Brampton, Ontario, who add their voices to those of the thousands upon thousands of Canadians who have signed similar petitions. Given that Canadians are living through unprecedented, catastrophic climate events, and at the same time our society, as you know, is suffering from worsening social and economic inequalitieshalf of Canadian families are only $200 away from insolvency in any given monthand particularly given the pandemic that we are currently experiencing, these petitioners are calling on the Government of Canada to support motion M-1, a made-in-Canada green new deal that I am presenting in front of the House of Commons. It calls on Canada to take bold and rapid action to tackle the climate emergency, and to put in place a shift to a clean and renewable energy economy.\n",
      "Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour to table a petition on behalf of constituents from CourtenayAlberni. They are concerned, obviously, about fentanyl-related deaths. Over 12,000 Canadians have died over the last four years due to fentanyl-poisoned sources. They cite that the current war on drugs has been costly and grossly ineffective; that it has resulted in widespread stigma towards addiction and against those who use illicit drugs; and that criminalization of particular substances has resulted in the establishment of a drug trade that now trafficks dangerous and lethal products such as fentanyl. They are citing that regulating to ensure safe sources, with proper measures and bylaws, will reduce the criminal element associated with street drugs. Problematic substance use is a health issue and is not resolved through criminalization of personal possession and consumption. They are calling on the Government of Canada to declare the current opioid overdose and fenanyl poisoning crisis a national public health emergency under the Emergencies Act. They are calling for the government to reform current drug policy to decriminalize personal possession, as has been done in Portugal and other countries, and to create with urgency and immediacy a system to provide safe and unadulterated access to substances so that people who use substances experimentally, recreationally or chronically are not at imminent risk of overdose due to a contaminated source.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Vis (MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon, CPC): Mr. Chair, I'm presenting a petition today that contains the concerns of Canadians in my riding with the government's approach to firearms legislation and regulation. The petition highlights that the Liberal government's December 5, 2019, Speech from the Throne contains numerous inaccuracies about current firearms legislation and regulation; that the term military-style assault rifles is a political phrase undefined in Canadian law; that municipalities are constitutionally unable to enact criminal law to ban handguns in their jurisdictions; that the experts, including chiefs of police, agree that banning firearms and requiring law-abiding gun owners to follow more unnecessary red tape will not increase public safety; that the majority of guns used in violent crimes are smuggled into Canada from the United States; and that the Liberal government continues to target law-abiding firearms owners instead of the gangs, drug traffickers and illegal gun traffickers responsible for violence in our communities. The petitioners in MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon are calling on the government to stop targeting law-abiding firearms owners; to cancel all plans to confiscate firearms legally owned by federally licensed, RCMP-vetted Canadians; and to focus our limited resources on anti-gang enforcement, on reducing the involvement of at-risk youth and gangs, on mental health and on providing the Canada Border Services Agency with the tools they need to do their job effectively.\n",
      "The Chair: Very good. That's all for petitions today. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remind honourable members that no member shall be recognized for more than five minutes at a time and that members may split their time with one or more members by so indicating to the chair. Ministers responding to the question should do so by simply turning on their mike and speaking. I want to again remind honourable members to use the boom on the official headsets so that everything runs smoothly, not only for ourselves but also for the interpreters.  We start the question period with Mr.Paul-Hus.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (CharlesbourgHaute-Saint-Charles, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Although we are right in the middle of a pandemic and the government has agreed to set aside all parliamentary business in order to concentrate solely on eliminating the virus in Canada and its impacts, the Prime Minister is deceiving Canadians by introducing measures to punish law-abiding firearm owners. Why?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Mr.Chair, I feel that all Canadians were affected by the massacre in Nova Scotia. Once again, too many families are facing tragedy and tremendous grief. During the last election campaign, we promised to ban military-style assault weapons, and that is exactly what we have done. We will be working with members from all parties in order to continue strengthening gun control. It is a shame that, once more, the Conservatives do not want to strengthen gun control in the country.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Mr.Chair, I understand the Prime Minister's reply. However, I would like to know whether he considers that, with this order in council, organized crime, street gangs and other criminals are simply going to turn in their weapons.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: This is indeed only a first step, but it is an important one. We are doing other things to eliminate or restrict handguns in our municipalities, to strengthen the control at our borders, and to implement other measures. I am pleased to hear the hon. member speak of those measures, because we are going to work together in the House to strengthen gun control. I hope that the Conservative Party will be part of that discussion in a positive way, in order to keep Canadians safe.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Mr.Chair, I can simply say to the Prime Minister that the Conservative Party has always been committed to battling criminals, not law-abiding citizens. Speaking of criminals, we know that, even before the pandemic, the Prime Minister had asked the Parole Board of Canada to release prisoners more easily and more quickly. Now we are learning that, because of the pandemic, some releases are happening very quickly. The Minister of Public Safety told us that the people were approaching the end of their sentences or were older, but we are learning in the media that some dangerous criminals are being released. Can the Prime Minister give us an explanation?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The protection, the safety and the health of all Canadians are important for the government. This is why we have taken additional measures in our correctional services to ensure that guards and inmates are protected. We have indeed opened the doors to some more speedy releases, but only in very specific cases that present little or no danger for Canadians. We have managed to find the right balance. We must protect Canadians and we must also ensure that they are safe. Those two things go hand-in-hand.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: So is the Prime Minister confirming to us that no dangerous criminals have been precipitously released so that they do not have to experience COVID-19 within the walls?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: There are very strict rules and principles to ensure that people posing a threat to society are not released.\nThe Chair: Mr.Paul-Hus, you have one minute left.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Thank you, Mr.Chair. The Chinese government has not been transparent with the rest of the world about the coronavirus. Australia asked for an in-depth investigation, but has received threats from the communist regime. Is Canada going to stand by its allies in the Five Eyes and demand that the Chinese government be completely transparent?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We continue to stand in solidarity with our allies, including the Five Eyes, as they have stood in solidarity with Canada in terms of the two Canadians who have been unjustly detained for a long time in China. In the coming months and years, we expect to obtain answers to all our questions about the origin of this pandemic, including questions that are important for China. At the same time, we are going to work hard to ensure that all Canadians have the equipment and the protection they need to get through this pandemic.\nThe Chair: We now move to Mr.Blanchet.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I am sorry that I do not have my official headset. I was elsewhere, and I did not bring it with me. I hope that you can still hear me properly. For some days, discussions have been going on between people from the Bloc Qubcois and people from the government with a view to collaboratively coming up with a proposal for seniors in Quebec and Canada. The gist of our proposal is to temporarily increase the old age security by about $25per week, or $110per month. By the way, I hate the term \"old age security. I prefer \"senior security. The discussion has been going on for some time and it's a proposal that we made in the election campaign. We are asking for it to be done at this point, at least temporarily. Parliament stopped sitting in the middle of March. We are now in May, and seniors still have nothing. They are impatient themselves, and we spend a good part of our days answering them. Given that impatience, I realized I should not be the one answering them, it should be the Prime Minister. So here is my question for the Prime Minister: what are you doing to seek a solution that will increase the purchasing power of seniors in Quebec and Canada in the very short term?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Clearly, seniors need support and significant services from us because of COVID-19. Our priority was to implement income replacement benefits for workers who have lost their jobs because of COVID-19. Then we announced different measures, including measures for seniors. The most vulnerable seniors are going to receive reimbursement of the GST, which will help them very quickly. We have also reduced by 25% the minimum amount that must be withdrawn from registered retirement income funds. We have also channelled $9million through the United Way, to help the most vulnerable seniors. Absolutely, I recognize that more must be done. I am very pleased that we have been able to work with other parliamentarians, including those in the Bloc Qubcois, to hear these concerns and to find the best way to help seniors in the short term. In terms of the pandemic, they have concerns about their physical security, but also about their financial security. We will have more to say about this soon.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: In the last few hours, the Prime Minister has indicated that he could need the cooperation of other parties, including the Bloc Qubcois, on a completely different matter. We are very open to that discussion, but we want the same openness when we are asking for something to serve the people of Quebec. The cost of a basket of groceries has increased for seniors, as it has for everyone else. It's true for all seniors over 65years old, of course. The current old age pension represents less than half of the Canada emergency student benefit. It represents less than one third of the basic Canada emergency response benefit. Seniors in my constituency, as in any other of the 338constituencies, are asking what we are doing. They are asking how there can be nothing for them. When will there be something for them? I want to be able to give them an answer of some kind. What is the Prime Minister's answer? I will repeat it to them.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: There will be announcements in the coming days on the way in which we will be able to help seniors, particularly the most vulnerable seniors. We recognize that the cost of a basket of groceries is increasing for everyone. That is why we have to do better for our seniors. There are horror stories, whether about the CHSLDs, or about our most vulnerable seniors across the country. Far too many families are experiencing tremendous grief. There are seniors who are alone, seniors who are afraid of falling ill without ever seeing their grandchildren or their children again. We have to be there for those who belong to that great generation that fought for us during the second world war. Now we have to fight for them in their homes. That is exactly what we are going to do.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go to the next question. Ms. Collins.\nMs. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Chair, every day I hear from people who are struggling to pay their bills and to keep a roof over their head. Instead of making sure that Canadians get the help they need, the government has created complicated programs that are still letting people fall through the cracks. If the Prime Minister won't commit to a universal benefit, will he at least commit to removing the restrictive eligibility criteria that are leaving the most vulnerable people behind?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we knew, when this pandemic hit, that we needed to help Canadians who were suffering from coast to coast to coast, particularly the most vulnerable. That is why we moved forward rapidly with the Canada emergency response benefit, which has helped over seven million individual Canadians and has made a huge difference. We had to move very quickly to get this money out to people, and that is exactly what we did. We also recognized that there would be a need to do more. That is why since that moment, we have continually worked on reaching out to the most vulnerable and supporting them as well. We have more to do, but we knew that targeted approaches were what was most needed.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the government continues to leave people behind. I spoke to a woman in my riding who was homeless last year. She recently found a job and a place to live. However, because she didn't make $5,000 last year, when the pandemic hit she didn't qualify for any benefits. She didn't qualify, but she is one of the people who need it the most. I'm wondering why the Prime Minister doesn't think she deserves our support.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, our focus throughout this crisis has been on helping the most vulnerable with targeted measures that will lift Canadians out of poverty and will support them. Over the past five years, we've lifted over a million people out of poverty in this country, and we've continued to put the most vulnerable at the heart of everything we're doing. We will continue to. We've put significant investments forward to charitable organizations and foundations that are helping the most vulnerable. At the same time, we will continue to look for more ways to help even more than the seven million Canadians who successfully receive the CERB. We recognize there's more to do, and we will continue trying to do everything we can in this unprecedented situation.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the government is weirdly committed to eligibility criteria that result in regular people not getting the support they need, but not so committed to criteria for corporations and billionaires who get our help. If a company is cheating the public, using offshore tax havens not to pay its fair share, it should not be eligible for government bailouts or benefits. Other countries, like Poland, Denmark and France, have made this commitment, and if they can do it, so can we. The Prime Minister said one thing one day and another the next. Will he commit now that if a company has money in offshore tax havens, it will not receive public funds?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the measures we've put forward are focused on helping workers who lose their jobs, regardless of the companies they work for. It is a shame to hear the NDP, which used to be the party of workers, choosing to judge workers by which multinational they work for. We have moved forward with a wage subsidy such that the employers are obliged to pass every single penny on to the workers. That is not help for the companies. That is help for the workers, and that has been our focus all the way through: ordinary Canadians who need support because they are unable to work because of COVID-19. That has been our priority, and that is what Canadians need right now. Of course, we continue to have very strong measures to fight against tax avoidance and tax evasion. We spent a billion dollars to strengthen our  Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, can I ask my last question?  Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We will continue to do that.\n",
      "The Chair: I'm just going to pause the time for a moment. I want to remind honourable members that we're trying to stay within committee rules, which state that the length of a question and the length of an answer should be approximately the same amount of time. I just want to remind our members of that. I'll go back to Ms. Collins. She has about 45 seconds left, and hopefully that's about half and half for the question and the answer. Ms. Collins.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: Thanks so much, Mr. Chair. My last question is about housing and homelessness. My community was facing a crisis long before the pandemic hit, and now people who are living on the streets or in parks don't have the luxury of following public health advice and just staying home. In Victoria, the province and the municipality have stepped up with solutions to house people, at least for the short term, in local hotels. Will the federal government respond to this immediate crisis and provide the needed investments in long-term, stable housing?\nThe Chair: The right honourable Prime Minister, in 25 seconds or less, please.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Yes, Mr. Chair, we have moved forward with a historic national housing strategy that puts $40 billion toward housing. Working with partners, we have reduced poverty by over a million people in this country, but there is more to do. We are reducing homelessness by half with historic investments. We recognize that during this pandemic there's even more to do for vulnerable Canadians, and we are partnering with orders of government to make sure that happens.\nMr. Jol Godin (PortneufJacques-Cartier, CPC): A point of order, Mr.Chair.\nThe Chair: Order. Mr.Godin has a point of order.\n",
      "Mr. Jol Godin: Mr.Chair, I cannot hear the French interpretation. Could we please check so that I can hear in French what the Prime Minister is saying?\nThe Chair: Okay. Can we check that?\nMr. Jol Godin: Thank you.\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: I can try speaking English. I believe I was on the English tab, as is important. Are you hearing the translation now?\n",
      "The Chair: That is exactly what the issue was. I just want to point that out to all the members. I'm speaking English right now and I'm on the English toggle at the bottom of the screen. It does create a bit of a disjoint when we're speaking, but it's the way to get around that so we have interpretation that works for everyone. The next question will go to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Chair, as this is our first opportunity to meet in any forum, I want to take this opportunity to express my condolences to the families of the brave men and women who lost their lives in the helicopter crash. I know that I speak for all parliamentarians when I extend our sympathy to their families and loved ones. Mr. Chair, I want to raise with the Prime Minister an issue that I've raised several times before, and that is a gap in the wage subsidy program. There is a company in my riding that employs thousands of people across the country. Last year, they acquired another company. Those companies separately would qualify for the wage subsidy, but because of rules that the government designed, together they do not. Even though collectively they have experienced a massive drop in revenue and would otherwise be eligible, so far they've been unable to get confirmation that they will be able to access the program. As a result, thousands of jobs are threatened. Will the Prime Minister be able to deliver some good news to people who work for Brandt Tractor all across the country?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I thank the honourable member for his question and for his advocacy for his community and businesses in his riding. As I told him when we spoke directly, Finance officials have been directly in contact with the company in his riding. We recognize that there are particular elements in regard to this company that are challenging around application for the wage subsidy, but I know that Finance officials are working very hard to try to make sure that everyone who needs the subsidy gets it, so that the workers in his community can get the support they need.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: The Prime Minister knows that there are many companies across the country that fall into this category as well, so we're hoping for some good news. Just flagging the time and date, it is well into May now and important decisions have to be made in very short order. There are other aspects of the government's plans to help get people through this crisis that are also causing people to fall through the cracks. The plan to help businesses with rent applies only after a business has lost 70% of their revenue. As provinces start to open up, many companies are going to be faced with a very difficult decision of operating at perhaps 35% or 45% of regular revenues. They will not be able to access these programs and, in many cases, there is going to be a disincentive to reopen and put people back to work. Will the Prime Minister amend these programs to provide for more flexibility so that more and more Canadians can start to return to work in the weeks ahead?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we are in an unprecedented crisis and we had to move quickly to support workers and to support families across the country, and that's exactly what we did. We're going to continue to work to try to respond to the reality that people and businesses are facing right across the country. I am eager to be faced with the challenge of how to ease off in these measures so that people can get back to work. We are getting closer to that point, but we are not there yet. We are still focused very much on giving the supports to workers and families that are so necessary in this time of crisis. As different provinces move forward towards reopening, as we look at different paths forward, I know that I will be able to count on all members in the House and, indeed, on Canadians from coast to coast to coast to figure out together what the best way will be to move forward on keeping us safe and restoring economic activity in the right way. That will be good to work on together once we get there.\n",
      "The Chair: We have about a minute left for maybe a 30-second question and a 30-second answer. Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, no one is disputing the need to move quickly. We are now in May, though, and these programs have been announced for weeks. Canadians have been accessing them. The problems with them have been flagged for the government for weeks as well, but we're also going to see an additional challenge, where people who are receiving the emergency response benefit, who may have the option to go back to work and work some hours, are faced with a hard cap of $1,000 a month before they lose the CERB. Conservatives are proposing a progressive system, a more flexible system, where people will be able to earn more without losing their benefits as businesses ramp up but before normal working hours are restored. Again, will the Prime Minister build in some flexibility to lift the restrictive ceiling on what people can earn before losing benefits so that it always pays more to work?\n",
      "The Chair: I believe the timer is telling all of us that the time is up, but I'll give the right honourable Prime Minister about 30 seconds to answer that, please.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority was getting support for Canadians right across the country with the CERB, with the wage subsidy and with other measures for students, for seniors, for farmers and for agricultural producers. That has been our priority, and that's what we have worked on. I hear the concerns that the Conservative Party has around disincentives. We are going to work with communities and with industry as we look to reopen, to make sure that people have opportunities to work and are not penalized for it. However, our overarching priority was allowing Canadians to be confident in their ability to stay home, care for their loved ones, buy groceries and pay their rent so that we could keep safe during this pandemic. That's exactly what we did.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go to Ms. Gladu now.\nMs. Marilyn Gladu (SarniaLambton, CPC): Mr. Chair, seniors in my riding are struggling. We've heard the Prime Minister admit that fixed incomes for some of them are down, rent is increasing and the price of groceries is increasing. He's been saying for weeks that in the coming days, something would be announced for seniors. The fact is that the Liberals ran on an election promise to increase the old age security. Which of the days in the coming weeks will they keep their promise to seniors?\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte (Minister of Seniors): Mr. Chair, after a lifetime of hard work, of course Canadians deserve peace of mind when it comes to their retirement security. COVID-19 is definitely having a disproportionate impact on seniors. They have a greater need for services and supports. Happily, their pensions and their benefits are still flowing, unlike for so many of those who have lost their jobs, but it's still tough. We introduced measures  Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Which day?   Hon. Deb Schulte: at the beginning of April. People received a GST credit, a supplementary payment that was $400 on average for single seniors and $600 for couples. That was of significant help to low- and moderate-income seniors.\n",
      "The Chair: We have a point of order from Ms. Gladu.\nMs. Marilyn Gladu: Yes, Mr. Chair. I think you had reminded us as members that the amount of time for the answer should be similar to the amount of time for the question. I would just ask the minister to keep to that. I would like to go to my second question.\nThe Chair: I want to remind all honourable members to keep their answers as well as their questions as concise as possible. Ms. Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Very good, Mr. Chair. My riding is on the border of Canada and the U.S. We see a number of inconsistencies in what is considered essential travel with regard to the U.S. and actually in the interpretation of different CBSA agents. While we have Americans coming over to buy cheaper prescription medications and to fish, individuals in my riding who are trying to get auditors over so that they can be approved for export businesses are being declined. We have people who have purchased masts from Canadian producers for their boats, and who want to come and pick them up, who are not being allowed to do that. People trying to sell plasma into the U.S. are being denied. When will they clarify the rules to the CBSA agents so that essential travel and trade and commerce, including individual commerce, is understood?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Mr. Chair, we have implemented very rigorous rules that have been well documented and understood by CBSA to stop all non-essential travel. Those measures have been very successful. We've seen a 99% reduction in international travel coming into Canada. At the same time, we recognize the importance of maintaining essential supply routes so that goods and services could reach Canada and we could put groceries on our shelves. We also recognize the important work that essential workers do on both sides of the border. We have provided CBSA with clarification. Their interpretation of those rules has been broadly consistent. I've heard from a number of our colleagues in caucus with concerns about individual cases. When we receive those inquiries, we follow up immediately. I want to assure the member that we'll continue to do that. The work we are doing to stop non-essential travel has been important for the health and safety of Canadians, and we will continue with that work.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Mr. Chair, my next question has to do with sole proprietor businesses. We see that many of them are not eligible for any of the benefit packages that have been rolled outEI, CERB, the wage subsidy, etc. What is the government going to do to address sole proprietors who are currently falling through the cracks?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance): Mr. Chair, first, let me say that we absolutely recognize there are businesses across the country of all sizes that are finding this to be extremely difficult. The intent of the measures we put forward is obviously not only to give individuals a bridge but to give businesses a bridge. We are looking at ways that we can ensure that the Canada emergency business account has the broadest possible application. More than 500,000 businesses have already been approved for these loans, representing over $20 billion. We are looking at ways we can consider that eligibility process, recognizing that we need to make sure that the program continues to have its desired impact, and we will have more to say on that.\n",
      "The Chair: The next question will go to Mr. Arnold.\nMr. Mel Arnold (North OkanaganShuswap, CPC): Mr. Chair, this is my first appearance, so I hope you can hear me okay.\nThe Chair: We can hear you fine. Please proceed.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see everyone's faces. On April 3, the fisheries minister said opening dates would be determined by harvesters. Since then the minister has overruled the will of harvesters in Prince Edward Island and in the gulf who voted to start their seasons on time, but she has allowed harvesters from her own riding to proceed with their seasons as scheduled, giving them access to markets weeks before their competitors. This double standard is severely unfair and Atlantic harvesters are furious, as demonstrated during the protests on the Canso Causeway yesterday. When will the minister stop abusing her position and start respecting fish harvesters by opening up lobster fishing areas 23, 24 and 26?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): Mr. Chair, when making decisions with regard to when seasons open, a number of factors are taken into account. They are complex decisions that take into account what is necessary for processors to be ready for the season, what is necessary for harvesters to be ready for the season, as well socio-economic impacts on the area. We're looking at all of those measures when we make these decisions. We do not make them lightly. They are difficult decisions to make. In the decisions we've made around the gulf, one of the main things we heard from all of those areas is that it was very important for them to start on the same date. That is why the decision was made to start on the 15th of May. We're looking forward to seeing the harvesters out on the water. We're looking forward to the product that they bring in. We'll continue do everything we can to support the industry.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Thank you, Minister. I believe the time\nThe Chair: Excuse me. No, the hon. minister had another 15 seconds coming to her. I'd like to remind hon. members not to interrupt a person while they are speaking. I'll do my best to try to keep it about level. Maybe I'll start muting if it's necessary, but interrupting is not going to solve anything. Mr. Arnold, I'll let you continue. You have three minutes and nine seconds left.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Thank you, Mr. Chair. West coast fishing tourism is a key economic driver in British Columbia, especially in coastal communities, and yet the public fishery gets no respect from the government. Last year, the public fishery was weakened by restrictions based on ideology and not science. A year later, the fisheries minister refuses even to discuss viable, science-based solutions to conserve B.C.'s public fisheries. Does the minister and her government have a will and a plan to support Canada's west coast fisheries and the communities they sustain?\nThe Chair: The hon. minister in 30 seconds, please.\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, the fishery is important in every coastal community. I recognize its value for our economy, as well as what it means to our coastal communities. That's why we continue to work with those communities and with the fisheries to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to support them. During these extremely difficult times, we're working on measures with the fishery in B.C., as well as on the Atlantic coast and eastern Quebec, to make sure that we're delivering for them and that all of the issues they're having are being addressed.\nThe Chair: Mr. Arnold.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Mr. Chair, Canada's seniors, especially those on basic incomes, are being hard hit by the COVID-19 crisis as they face new rising costs and scarcity of services. Seniors require adequate caregiver supports, physical safety and freedom to access their savings to reinforce their financial security. Why has the government failed to recognize the increasing challenges that seniors are facing? Will the government support Canada's senior citizens?\nThe Chair: The hon. minister in 30 seconds or less, please.\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, I want to assure my hon. colleague that the government has been focused on seniors during this challenging time. We have provided a GST credit supplement of $400 for single seniors and $600 for couples, for low- and modest-income seniors. We have also ensured that the Canada emergency response benefit is there for seniors who have lost income due to COVID-19. We've made them eligible.\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Arnold. Mr. Arnold, you have a minutehopefully a 30-second question and a 30-second answer.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Thank you, Mr. Chair. On April 23, my colleagues and I called on the government to create a program that would match students seeking employment with employers in Canada's essential food supply chains. What has the government done to match students and other Canadians seeking employment with employers in the agriculture and agri-food sectors, including those in the fish and seafood sector?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion): Mr. Chair, we're doing all we can to make sure, using our existing employment programs, that we create opportunities for students to work and get work experience this summer. We know that this is going to be really tough, especially in areas like agriculture, so we have dedicated streams for agriculture sector employers to access students with help from the government, and a number of different initiatives including Canada summer jobs, which I'm really excited to see the results of in the coming days.\n",
      "The Chair: Now we'll go on to the next question from Ms. Harder. Ms. Rempel, do you have a point of order?\n",
      "Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner (Calgary Nose Hill, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. With my colleague, Mr. Arnold, it's the second time that I note you've threatened to cut off a Conservative microphone. I'm just wondering, given that this isn't the House of Commons and it's structured as a committee, what standing order would give you the right to cut off a member of Parliament using a mute button. It seems a little dictatorial, and I was just wondering whether you could clarify that, based on the Standing Orders.\n",
      "The Chair: I don't think I threatened to use mute, but thank you for bringing that up. I am trying to keep the rules where the questions and the answers are equal, so that there are no interruptions on either side. That's how we're going to continue. I didn't use the mute. I did it verbally and I think that's a little more civil way of doing it. I hope you approve. I'm not asking you to comment on that. We'll go over to Ms. Harder. Thank you.\n",
      "Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: But, on the point of order, Mr. Chair, you actually, to me, last week, and to Mr. Arnold, did suggest that you were going to use the mute button.\nThe Chair: I believe that if we take everything out and go over it.... Bring the papers with the actual verbiage on it where I threatened, and we'll go over it, but I don't think this is the venue to do that. If you want to bring forward a point of order, I'm all in favour of it.\n",
      "Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner: Well, I am bringing forward a point of order. I've asked you to clarify\nThe Chair: Very good. We'll look into it and get back to you. Thank you. We'll go on to Ms. Harder.\nMs. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC): Canadians have outrightly expressed outrage and disappointment with the government's initiative to put a gun ban in place. Does the minister stand by his comment that these changes would have prevented the tragedy in Nova Scotia?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister in 15 seconds or less, please.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: We have heard from health professionals, women's rights organizations, victims groups and the police and our unions. They're all very supportive of the government's measure to ban weapons that have no place in a civil society and were designed to kill people.\nMs. Rachael Harder: It's interesting that the minister is misleading Canadians in that comment because the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police has actually said that a gun ban will do nothing of the sort, that it actually will not protect Canadians. So I'd be curious. How many criminals will see guns seized because of the changes that have been implemented by the Liberal government?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Yes, let's actually quote what the police have said. The Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police said that they support a prohibition on all military-designed assault rifles. The chief in Toronto said that taking those assault rifles off the streets contributes to public safety, and the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs has declared that military assault rifles are produced for the sole purpose of killing people in large numbers and they urged successive governments to enact legislation to ban all military assault rifles.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: The answer to that question is zero. Absolutely no criminals will see their guns seized based on the Liberals' legislation that's coming forward because it actually goes after those who legally own and use their firearms. Can the Prime Minister please tell us why he decided to go after law-abiding citizens instead of actually going after criminals who have gotten their firearms in an illegal manner and then used them to commit crimes?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister in 25 seconds or less, please.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Yes, to be very clear, the order in council actually is targeted at weapons, weapons that were designed for military use, and in their design and in their intent, to kill people, they've actually been used in this country, at cole Polytechnique; in Moncton; at a Quebec City mosque; in Fredericton; at Mayerthorpe and most recently in Nova Scotia. These are weapons that really have no place.... They are being used and have been used in Canada and around the world to commit mass murder, and in the interest of public safety and at the urging\nThe Chair: We'll go on to Ms. Harder.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: Thank you. Now I understand the Prime Minister has his food prepared for him at 24 Sussex Drive and then it's delivered to him at the cottage where he lives. Contrary to his privileged understanding, food actually originates with farmers. Now, they're in a crisis right now, which means that regular Canadians are actually at risk of not having food available for them at the grocery stores where they purchase theirs. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture requested $2.6 billion to help them out. Today, the government announced one-tenth of this amount. Why doesn't the Prime Minister care about the women and the men who work incredibly hard to keep Canada fed?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, let me assure the hon. member that our government cares very, very much about the women and men who work so hard to feed our country. Let me just say I am grateful to all the farmers, like my dad, who are out in their fields right now getting ready for seeding. We, as Canadians, are lucky to be citizens of an agricultural superpower, and our government believes in supporting our farmers and ranchers.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: I'm confused as to why the Prime Minister didn't take my question, and at a bare minimum as to why the agriculture minister doesn't feel it's important enough for her to be a part of this discussion today. When we have farmers who produce for Canadians on a daily basis and they're asking some serious and some very important questions, and we don't even have a minister who's willing to come to the table and engage in this conversation, that's shameful. Several meat-packing plants have been forced to shut down because of COVID-19 and, as a result, farmers are forced to hold stock longer than expected. Cattle producers in my region are spending more than $60,000 a day to keep their livestock fed while they wait for processing plants to reopen. The amount that was announced today by the federal government is a drop in the bucket. It's a crumb. When will the government take this seriously and at least implement a set-aside program for those who are beef producers in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me just say that I feel there is nothing shameful at all in having me, the Deputy Prime Minister, answer questions about agriculture. I am actually very proud to speak up for Canada's amazing farmers, for our country's amazing ranchers, for our amazing pork producers and our poultry producers. I feel so close to our farmers. I love them and our government supports them. Today, we announced $252 million of support for our producers. They need it. They deserve it. We're here for them.\nThe Chair: Now we'll go on to Mr. Bezan.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too would like to express my sincere condolences to the families and friends of the six military heroes who lost their lives at sea last week. I'm sure that all members of the House stand shoulder to shoulder with the families, with the crew of the HMCS Fredericton and, indeed, with the entire Canadian Armed Forces community during this time of grief. Can the Minister of National Defence give us an update as to the Cyclone helicopter crash off the coast of Greece last week?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence): Mr. Chair, the deaths of the Canadian Armed Forces members are felt by all, and especially the families. Our condolences go out to them. Our number one priority is to make sure that we look after them, and that's exactly what we are doing. Currently, the investigation is ongoing. Our investigative team is currently on the ground. I actually spoke with the Italian minister of defence and he promised full support for this investigation and any support that's required.\n",
      "The Chair: I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut you off there, if we're going by the rules that were pointed out by the House. Mr. Bezan.\nMr. James Bezan: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you to Minister Sajjan again, I'm going to change gears a bit. I know that back in early January, military intelligence through CF Intelligence Command was reporting, through the chain of command, the novel coronavirus and the outbreak in Wuhan. On what date was he, as Minister of National Defence, given his first intelligence briefing on the outbreak and the pandemic in China?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, we have been following this crisis from day one. We work with our Five Eyes intelligence sources and this has been a whole-of-government effort, right from the beginning. I can assure you that our response to this pandemic has been with all the necessary information. Obviously, I can't discuss the intelligence in this forum, but I can assure you that our response has been well informed with the correct information.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, we know that intelligence was going up the chain of command in National Defence. It was reported in the media that in early January the hierarchy within the Canadian Armed Forces was being made aware of the coronavirus outbreak. I asked you, Minister, when you became aware of it and what you did with that intelligence.\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, I get regular briefings on intelligence. Yes, I was made aware of this in January. As with all our intelligence, we work together from a whole-of-government perspective with all of our intelligence agencies. One thing I can assure you is that our response has been well informed with all the correct information that is provided to me and other members of cabinet.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: What was that timeline? From the time you were first told, Minister Sajjan, about the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, what did you do with that intelligence? When did you give it to the Prime Minister or to Minister Hajdu as the Minister of Health?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me say that our government's response to this global pandemic has of course been informed by the excellent work of Canadian intelligence agencies throughout. We have been working on this from very early on. On January 2, PHAC first spoke with provincial health authorities to alert them to the situation. On January 14, it convened a meeting of all provincial health authorities. In January, the Prime Minister convened a meeting of the incident response group, and in January we increased screening at all major airports. All of these actions were informed by the work of our excellent intelligence community, and of course our work with our Five Eyes, NATO and NORAD allies.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: I want to come back\nThe Chair: We now move to Mr.Ste-Marie.\nMr. James Bezan: I still have 30 seconds left.\nMr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Can I go ahead, Mr.Chair?\nThe Chair: Yes, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you, Mr.Chair. In an interview with Grald Fillion, tax expert Andr Lareau, who specializes in tax havens, pointed out that $350billion Canadian is parked in just 12tax havens. Companies are using tax havens for financing, operations and intellectual property activities. Mr.Lareau also notes that the government is aware that all of this Canadian money is stashed in tax havens but is doing nothing about it. He said that it's time for Canada to tackle the problem given that it has a $250-billion deficit, and that if it doesn't act now to change things, it never will. Is the government going to seize this opportunity to outlaw the corporate use of tax havens?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue): Mr.Chair, as soon as we took office, in 2015, our government made cracking down on tax evaders in Canada and abroad a priority. That's precisely why we put nearly a billion dollars towards that effort. I realize that my fellow member is impatient, but he has to understand that this is a very complex issue. Under our leadership, in three years, the Canada Revenue Agency has undertaken twice as many audits related to offshore tax evasion as it did in the 10years the Conservatives were in power. As we speak, the agency is conducting more than 50criminal investigations tied to international tax evasion. I repeat, this is a top priority for our government.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: You're right, I am very impatient, because whenever I bring up the fact that companies are using tax havens legally, the minister misses the point and tells me that she is going after fraudsters. I am talking about the legal use of tax havens by companies. Since Parliament began sitting virtually, it's been mentioned a few times that Denmark and Poland have decided to deal with the issue. Even France's finance minister, Bruno LeMaire, said that companies with subsidiaries in tax havens would not be eligible for public assistance. We hear thePrime Minister and other government officials say all the time that the wage subsidies are going to workers, so I'd like to cite another examplebanks. The government is injecting huge amounts of cash into the financial system and repurchasing troubled assets in massive quantities, and yet, the five major banks in Toronto, alone, are continuing to save billions of dollars every year by artificially redirecting their profits to tax havens. This is unacceptable. This has nothing to do with wages for workers, and everything to do with the repurchase of troubled assets, cash flow and billions of dollars that the government could be going after. Is the government going to seize this opportunity to make the corporate use of tax havens illegal?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, our government is taking unprecedented steps through the Canada emergency wage subsidy measure to support businesses and workers affected by COVID-19. This is largely a trust-based program, and we will not tolerate abuse. Anyone who tries to bypass the rules will face serious consequences. Applicants have to designate an individual to attest to the truth of their claim. What's more, any employer receiving the subsidy who is deemed ineligible will have to repay the full amount. Anyone who abuses the program could face a fine of up to 225% of the wage subsidy amount and up to five years in prison. The Canada Revenue Agency also has a myriad of tools at its disposal to detect a fraudulent claim. As I mentioned, cracking down on tax evasion is a priority for our government.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds to ask your question, and about the same for the answer.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you, Mr.Chair. That's an excellent answer, but it has nothing to do with my question. The Minister of Finance has the power to fix the problem now. Although completely immoral, the use of tax havens by companies is legal under section5907 of the Income Tax Regulations. Through simple regulatory amendments, the finance minister could put an end to this kind of abuse. We are going to have a $250-billion deficit to pay off, and everyone is going to have to chip in, including the rich who are currently taking advantage of the system.\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, thanks to a historic billion-dollar investment, our government has given the agency the resources it needs to do the job, and we are starting to see results. I set up an expert advisory committee to provide us with guidance and recommendations. We tightened the rules for the voluntary disclosures program. We signed tax information exchange agreements with a number of countries. We audit four jurisdictions a year. We also work closely with the OECD.\nThe Chair: We now move on to another member.  The next questioner is Mr. Rogers.\n",
      "Mr. Churence Rogers (BonavistaBurinTrinity, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I'm sharing my time slot with the member for SurreyNewton. In the wake of COVID-19, so many Canadians have been affected in so many ways. Financial loss and other burdens are having a huge impact on families across our country. I'm proud of how the Government of Canada has been beside Canadians through every step of this pandemic and has supported Canadians when they needed it most. In BonavistaBurinTrinity and across our country, our commercial fishery has seen many challenges and impacts. Last week, my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, announced an investment that will ensure resilience of the food system by allowing Canada's fish and seafood processing sector to safely and efficiently process, store, package and distribute healthy, high-quality products on to the plates of Canadians. The fish harvesters in my riding are fearful of what will happen within this industry and their immediate futures. They are facing a reduction in available markets and market prices. They are asking what our government is putting in place to assist in these extremely challenging times. When can we expect to hear an answer to our harvesters' requests for assistance?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague from BonavistaBurinTrinity for keeping us well aware of what's happening in his riding with harvesters and with processors. We know how important the fish and seafood sector is to our rural communities, our coastal communities. It's the backbone and the lifeblood of our communities and that's why we want to be there to support them. We've already taken steps by making sure that the CERB is now able to be accessed by people who are seasonal workers. As well, we are making sure that people who are running out of fishers EI are also able to qualify for it. We also have made an investment of $62.5 million to support our processors to make sure they are able to be ready for the challenges that they are going to face because of COVID-19. We know there is more to do. We know that the harvesters need support. We are working with our partners across industry to make sure we're hearing what their major concerns are. We know they are going to have some very challenging times this season. We will have more to say about that and what we will be able to do in the coming days.\n",
      "The Chair: The next questioner is Mr. Dhaliwal.\nMr. Sukh Dhaliwal (SurreyNewton, Lib.): Mr. Chair, in my riding of SurreyNewton, I'm in close contact with businesses that represent all\nThe Chair: We have a point of order. Mr. Kurek.\nMr. Damien Kurek (Battle RiverCrowfoot, CPC): Sorry, but there seems to be an issue with the audio. I'm unable to hear the honourable member.\nThe Chair: It is very faint. Mr. Dhaliwal, can you check your audio to make sure everything's working well?\n",
      "Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal: It was\nThe Chair: There we go. It's fine now. I think what happened was the boom had fallen down and it wasn't being picked up. There you go. Very good.\n",
      "Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal: Mr. Chair, in my riding of SurreyNewton, I'm in close contact with businesses that represent all vantage points in the supply chainfrom manufacturers to retailers, transport companies to warehousing. With provinces and territories moving at different speeds and implementing different protocols for reopening the economy, there is a lot of confusion in my local business community on the timing and logistics of how this will happen. With so many different parts of the supply chain operating in different jurisdictions, and with each business serving unique roles on this spectrum, how can the federal government serve to best coordinate with the provinces and territories so that the supply chain can be implemented smoothly as we embark on our economic recovery?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank my colleague for his question and for his hard work. One of the most important things the federal government can do when it comes to the reopening of the Canadian economy is to work in close collaboration with the premiers of the provinces and territories. That's why I was so pleased that last week the Prime Minister, together with all the first ministers of the country, was able to issue a statement around the principles that will be guiding our entire country as we move towards a restart. This is so important because, as my colleague has pointed out, all of our business, our economic activity, happens across the country. It happens across provincial and territorial boundaries. I would really also like to take this opportunity to thank the first ministers across the country. They belong to different parties, but everyone has really been able to put partisanship aside. We have been able to work together in fighting coronavirus, and we are going to work together in the future to keep on fighting coronavirus and to reopen Canada. Thank you.\n",
      "The Chair: The next question goes to Ms. McPherson.\n",
      "Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to represent my constituents virtually during this challenging period of physical distancing. I'd like to start by asking about supports for workers. In Alberta, meat-packing plants are directly responsible for nearly a quarter of all COVID-19 cases. The government and management ignored the pleas of workers and did not put effective safety protocols in place to deal with COVID-19. Now, two workers are dead, at least six more are in intensive care and COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire through these communities. There are over 1,400 cases. Yesterday, employees were forced back to work even though their concerns had not been addressed. On March 27, regarding the CERB, the Minister of Finance said that if workers don't feel comfortable in their work, if they decide to stay home, they can apply for the benefit, yet the website says differently. Will the minister guarantee that every Canadian receiving CERB, EI or the CESB will not lose their benefits if they refuse to return to work or to accept work that is unsafe due to COVID-19?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Let me thank the member, first of all, for her really very important question. I think all of us share the concern for Canada's essential workers who are keeping us safe, putting food on our tables and often working in difficult conditions. When it comes to the Cargill plant, this is an issue that our government has been very closely engaged in. My colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, has spoken with her provincial counterpart and the head of the plant. The decisions about suspending and reopening are taken by local and provincial health authorities. To the question my colleague asked about workers, it is absolutely the case that no Canadian should feel they need to work in an environment that is unsafe, and it is also very much the case that any Canadian who is feeling unwell should stay at home. This is the way that collectively we take care of ourselves and we take care\n",
      "The Chair: We will go on to Ms. McPherson for the next question.\nMs. Heather McPherson: I just want to be clear, because I'm not a hundred per cent sure that I got an answer in that response, so I'll try one more time. Knowing that workers have a fundamental right to refuse unsafe work, can the minister confirm one hundred per cent that if workers refuse unsafe work, they will be able to access the CERB, or was the Minister of Finance incorrect when he spoke on March 27?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: I'm sorry, but I was struggling with my mute button. I apologize. Let me just be very clear. No Canadian worker at any time should feel obliged to go to work in unsafe conditions.\nMs. Heather McPherson: But then could they access the CERB?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: In a time of coronavirus that is even more the case, and the government of course should not penalize workers for doing the right thing and declining to go to work in unsafe conditions.\n",
      "The Chair: I want to remind the honourable members to place their questions through the Chair to avoid back and forth, just to try to keep some order in the meeting. Ms. McPherson, please continue.\nMs. Heather McPherson: I'm sorry, Chair. I have another question on the protection for workers. At the meat-packing plant, workers are calling for the plant to be shut down. In fact, we know that 85% of workers are afraid for their safety. If the provincial government won't shut down the plant, will the federal government shut down unsafe plants through the Canadian Food Inspection Agency?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, on the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, let me be very clear that my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, has been in touch with provincial authorities. She has been in touch with the plant. The duties of the food inspection agency, of course, are to ensure that the food produced at the plant is safe. That is what inspectors are trained to do and what they are focused on. We are working closely with provincial authorities and with health authorities to ensure that\nThe Chair: We will go back to Ms. McPherson.\n",
      "Ms. Heather McPherson: Mr. Chair, this will be one of my final questions on the meat-packing plant in Alberta. Can the finance minister please let us know if Cargill, a company that is owned by billionaires, with business in Luxembourg, a known tax haven, has received any federal funding this year for COVID-related support?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: This is a tough time for Canadians, and our government is doing everything it can to support them. More than 7million Canadians have applied for the Canada emergency response benefit, which the Canada Revenue Agency and Service Canada administer. I want to say how proud I am of the work the agency is doing; staff worked tirelessly to get the program up and running in record time. MinisterQualtrough is responsible for developing the eligibility criteria and processing the claims.\nThe Chair: We are moving on to the next question. We'll continue now with Mr. Bragdon.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon (TobiqueMactaquac, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question today is for the Prime Minister. Potato farmers in New Brunswick and across Canada are sitting on massive stores of potatoes that were destined for the restaurant industry, but due to the pandemic, they now have no customers. It's estimated that there is $300 million worth of potatoes still sitting in storage. What is the Prime Minister's plan for the helping farmers offload these potatoes so that they are ready for the 2020 season?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I think all of us as Canadians are proud of the great potato farmers across the country. We are aware that the coronavirus, by keeping us away from restaurants where we eat french fries, has had a profound effect on the market for potatoes. The program announced today by the Prime Minister and my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture, will be very helpful for potato farmers, including with the surplus food program that starts with a $50 million fund, and that\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Bragdon now.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: Mr. Chair, thank you. With an estimated $300 million worth of potatoes in storage, the announced funding from the government today simply doesn't go far enough. In 2018 the New Brunswick potato industry lost over $20 million. It is estimated this year that the financial loss will exceed $40 million. For many producers still recovering from the hit they took in 2018, another major loss is totally unacceptable. How does the Prime Minister plan to mitigate these shortfalls and allow farmers to continue to grow the food we so desperately need?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, the honourable member spoke about farmers generally. The program today is $252 million, which comes on top of the broad range of other programs that farmers, of course, have access to. On potato farmers, in particular, I agree with the honourable member that this is a specific area of concern. I think all Canadians would like to see those potatoes not be wasted but be used, and that's why the $50 million for surplus food purchase is going to be so helpful.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: Mr. Chair, farmers across all agricultural sectors are hurting during this pandemic. The $16-billion beef industry is expected to take a massive hit due to the closures and reduced production of the meat-packing plants. Does the government truly believe that the announced $125 million that is shared between beef, poultry and pork producers will be enough to support these multi-billion dollar industries so they can put food on the tables of Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I absolutely agree with the honourable member that our beef, pork and poultry producers are absolutely essential for our country. I am very pleased as a Canadian that we have security that comes from being a country that produces not only enough food for ourselves, but also enough food to feed the world. That is why the $125 million specifically to support our beef, pork and poultry producers is going to be so helpful.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: Mr. Chair, the government's announcement of $252 million for the agriculture sector falls well short of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture's request for immediate government relief for farmers. The president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, Mary Robinson, put it today something like this: that if the farmhouse is on fire, the government has offered the equivalent of a bucket of water. This will not go nearly far enough to help those in a desperate situation. Does the government have a plan to offer more than just crumbs to keep the vital agriculture sector operating and providing the food we so desperately need? When will the government finally make those who literally keep our land and grow our food a priority in this time of crisis?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I don't know about the honourable member, but where I come from, $252 million is not just crumbs. I know that Canadian farmers don't feel that $252 million is nothing, either. I would like to take this opportunity to highlight two other aspects of the essential support for farmers that we announced today: the $77 million to support food processors, which will not only be important for the processors, but helpful for the farmers who produce products that go to them; and the $250 million that we would like to add to the Canadian Dairy Commission's line of credit to raise it to half a billion dollars, which will be very helpful to our essential dairy farmers.\n",
      "The Chair: Now we'll go to the next question. Go ahead, Mrs. Wagantall.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall (YorktonMelville, CPC): Mr. Chair, a couple in my riding has had to shut down their business, and they are on CERB. They were shocked when their 16-year-old son also qualified, and he is receiving $8,000 on the basis of part-time work throughout the school year. Why is the government handing out a windfall to teenagers who are living at home while denying university students and ignoring seniors on fixed incomes?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, any individual who has lost work for COVID reasons is eligible for the CERB, regardless of their personal circumstances. If you made $5,000 in the past year and are a resident of Canada, you qualify for the CERB. This is not a matter of differentiating between the personal circumstances of individuals but of acknowledging that many workers in different situations have lost their work or have had their work significantly reduced because of COVID.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Clearly, high school students would not have the same needs as university students and our seniors who are suffering at this time. The government's own findings on banning handguns and assault firearms state, In all cases the data does not conclusively demonstrate that these handgun or assault weapon bans have led to reductions in gun violence. Why is the Prime Minister so bent on penalizing law-abiding firearms owners when he should be focusing on funding our CBSA officers first, giving them the resources they need to seize smuggled firearms at our borders?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, I note with some interest that when we brought forward legislation in a budget in the last two years to increase the number of officers at the border, the member opposite voted against it. I'm very pleased to hear that she now supports it. Let us be very clear. The evidence is overwhelming that these weapons are designed to be used, and have been used, to kill innocent people. Countries that adopt sensible gun policiesplaces like New Zealand, Australia, the United Kingdomhave all recognized that there's no place for these weapons in a civil society. We promised Canadians that we would act on that concern. There have been far too many people killed with these weapons, and even most recently, to honour and respect the terrible tragedy in Nova Scotia, the time to act is now, and we've acted.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Last week the Minister of Agriculture said, Step by step we are giving our farmers...the tools they need to continue their...work. On April 30, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture called on the minister to create a $2.6-billion fund to maintain food security in Canada. This morning, the Prime Minister announced $252 million, hit-and-miss, across the agriculture sector. With all due respect, this is a slap in the face to our farmers and the agri-food sector. Instead of being here to speak to this announcement, the minister has chosen to do a press conference. This certainly reveals how seriously the minister takes this virtual sitting and parliamentary accountability. If the deputy minister is going to answer the question in her place, how does she see it is right to be providing $9 billion to students and only crumbs to our agriculture sector?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, first of all, let me say I do not, as has now been suggested by two members opposite, consider it in any way shameful that I should be answering questions about our support for the agricultural sector. Our government strongly supports our farmers. I have to say I personally very strongly support our farmers and have a strong personal connection to them. The $252 million of support is real and meaningful, and it is directed exactly where it is needed. It is directed at food processors, beef and pork producers and the dairy sector. As to the question about students, let me just point out that farm kids are students too, and farm kids will be benefiting from the support for students. I know they, their parents and grandparents are very\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Time is up.\nThe Chair: Mr.Lehoux, the next question goes to you.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux (Beauce, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Meat packing plants like Quebec-based Olymel are extremely worried that they won't be able to stay open throughout the pandemic. In the summer, these plants rely on students to do overtime and fill in for full-time employees on vacation. However, the Canada emergency student benefit makes it possible for these much-needed workers to stay home while still collecting the same amount of money. That's why the government must adjust its current summer job program for students in the agriculture and agri-food sectors. When is the government going to make these critical changes?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: I can assure you that we are doing our best efforts to not disincentivize work. We know we need to support students with income support, but we also need to create jobs. We are looking at ways we can create additional jobs through Canada summer jobs, through the\nThe Chair: There is a point of order.\nMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ): Mr.Chair, what the minister is saying is not being interpreted.\nThe Chair: We'll just check to see how the technology is going. Is everything okay now?\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Yes, it's working.\nThe Chair: Let's try that again, Minister.\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: Last week, as part of the measures announced around supporting our students, we announced the creation of 76,000 additional jobs, including jobs in the agriculture and processing sectors. We know we need to work directly with employers to ensure they have the people they need. This is exactly what we're doing through our youth employment and skills strategy, and that's what we'll continue to do. We won't apologize for supporting students with income support in these difficult times.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: I'm not sure the minister understood my question about the Canada emergency student benefit. I am very concerned about the agricultural sector, but the tourist and horticultural sectors are also on my mind. A number of business owners in my riding have reached out to me because the shortage of student workers is forcing them to shut down for the summer. This government has pulled the rug out from under them with the benefit it introduced for students. Minister, what do you have to say to those business owners in the tourist and horticultural sectors whom you are not helping?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I believe we are helping students. We've heard very clearly from the students that they want to work and want to serve in their communities in this time of crisis. That's why we're creating additional employment opportunities and an income support mechanism that allows them to work. We're going to continue to look at ways we can support them through additional opportunities this summer. We know they want to work and they want to serve.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: I hope that we'll see some concrete results. Pork and beef producers are feeling the impact of the country's shutdown triggered by the pandemic. Processing plants are suspending operations and buyers are tearing up their contracts. For the past five years, the government has been saying that the programs to help producers will be improved. Now more than ever, producers need these programs. However, the programs haven't been reviewed yet. When will the government make these changes, including the changes to agristability, and when can producers access them?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: We announced over $77 million in assistance for food processors to help them protect their workers and deal with the costs associated with the coronavirus. To help livestock and pork producers, we established agrirecovery, a national initiative that will provide $125million to help producers adapt to market changes. We're launching\nThe Chair: Mr.Lehoux has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: Thank you, Mr.Chair. I understand some of what the minister is saying. The measures announced at noon today received a very cold reception from the entire agriculture and agri-food sector, since the sector had asked for about $2.6billion. I think that it's important to support our agri-food industry and our farms, given the significant need for sovereignty. Many Canadians in the agriculture and agri-food sector have made this clear, as I was saying earlier. Something must be done quickly, before our country becomes completely dependent on its neighbours. Has the government considered making significant changes to the various programs currently in place?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Our country, Canada, will never depend on its neighbours or any other country for food. Canada is a major beef, pork and grain producer. Canada is an agricultural superpower and we should all take pride in that. I want to mention another significant part of our announcement today, which is the $50million surplus food purchase program. This is very significant. I think that all Canadians must support this initiative.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends (BrossardSaint-Lambert, Lib.)): We'll now move on to the next question. Mr.Calkins, the member for RedDeerLacombe, has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins (Red DeerLacombe, CPC): Madam Chair, how will the government's forced confiscation of law-abiding firearms owners' property prevent criminals from illegally acquiring firearms from the United States?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, in response to that, I would simply remind the member that we have made it very clear that these weapons have no place in civil society, so we have prohibited military-style assault weapons that have been designed to be used to kill people and have been used to kill people. I would also advise the member we will bring forward legislation to deal more effectively at the border. We'll make significant new investments in border services officers and in police. We'll bring forward new authorities, new offences, new penalties to deal with people who smuggle weapons across the border. We're also bringing in new regulations for the storage of weapons to make it more difficult for people to steal these guns. To deal with people who purchase them illegally and sell them illegally, there will be new offences and penalties to make ensure that they face the consequences.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins: The government previously has said that decisions like classifying firearms should be left to experts. The recent decision was purely political and it flies in the face of evidence-based policy. A legal opinion that's already been obtained says that the bore of a 12-gauge shotgun with the choke removed is in excess of 20 millimetres. That means every 12-gauge shotgun with a choke in it with that choke removed is now prohibited. That is the same firearm that Olympic trap shooters, Olympic skeet shooters, duck hunters and geese hunters all across our country use on a very regular basis. Why did the government abandon an evidence-based policy?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, I'm pleased to have the opportunity to correct the member. First of all, we have prohibited large-bore weapons, such as grenade launchers, but with reference to the 10-gauge shotgun and the 12-gauge shotgun, I would simply remind the member that the bore of a 10-gauge shotgun is 19.69 millimetres in width and the bore of a 12-gauge shotgun is 18.53 millimetres in width, both of them under the size for prohibition and therefore not covered in the new prohibitions that the government introduced on Friday. I'm afraid his expert opinion is wrong.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins: Madam Chair, the opinion is that of one of the foremost experts we have in Canada when it comes to firearms legislation. If the entirety of the barrel length is considered, then the removal of the choke makes that barrel in excess of 20 millimetres. I would appreciate the minister clarifying that for law-abiding firearms owners. There is no plan for a buyback program in this policy, and law-abiding firearms owners are not able currently to surrender their firearms. Given this, and the fact that law-abiding firearms owners aren't committing any gun violence, what was the government's immediate benefit of making this announcement on May 1?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Thank you, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to clarify. Along with the prohibition that we have put in place, we have also, using the order in council, established an amnesty period, but the amnesty period is non-permissive grandfathering of those weapons. They cannot be used, they can't be taken to the range for shooting, they can't be used for hunting, they can't be sold and they can't be transferred, so we have put in strong measures to ensure that these weapons will not be available for use. We have also put in an amnesty period that will allow us to bring forward the legislation and a budget in order to effect a responsible, safe and effective buyback program to remove these weapons from society. I look forward to the member's support for those measures as we go forward.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins: Madam Chair, since January 1, 2002, any law-abiding citizen who was issued with a firearms licence by the government would have been cross-referenced with a continuous eligibility check 6,695 times up until May 1 of this year. How many times was this most recent mass murderer here in Canada checked against a criminal database since January 2002?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: As the member is probably aware, there is a very extensive investigation currently being conducted into that individual and how he acquired his firearms, and it's not appropriate to discuss that. However, I think what is appropriate is to recognize that the weapons that this individual had available to him are weapons that were not designed for target shooting or hunting purposes or any sporting purposes. They were designed for soldiers to kill soldiers. In the hands of someone who is intent on mass murder, they represent an unacceptable and deadly risk to Canadians, and that's why we have prohibited them. I'd also remind the member that other countries that have adopted sensible gun control laws, such as New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom, have also implemented very similar bans.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Now we will go to the hon. member for NanaimoLadysmith, Mr. Manly.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to start by giving my condolences for the crew from the HMCS Fredericton who died, and in particular to the family of Captain Kevin Hagen. He was originally a constituent from NanaimoLadysmith. Other countries are strongly recommending that all citizens wear masks wherever people gather indoors, including in schools, on public transit and in stores. Taiwan has effectively stopped the spread of the coronavirus by supplying people with masks and installing dispensers of hand sanitizer throughout public spaces. The Taiwanese do not do a lot of testing or contact tracing. They do not have a lockdown. Taiwan started in the top 10 countries affected by COVID-19, and today it is number 119. Will Canada follow Taiwan's example so we can lift the lockdown safely and get Canadians back to work?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and I thank the member for his question. There's no doubt that masks can play a role in a layered approach to protecting Canadians' health and safety, but as the member has mentioned, there are many other aspects to ensuring that Canadians are safe no matter where they go. For example, it is of utmost importance that Canadians practise social distancing. Social distancing can provide the most protection, in fact, when you're out in public or you're in another place where there are other people. Wearing a non-medical mask can add a layer of protection, and certainly Dr. Tam has said that when physical distancing is not an option, Canadians should consider wearing a mask.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Thank you. I'd like to give a shout-out to Martha and her team, who are doing a fundraiser for the SPCA by making masks for citizens in my riding. Madam Chair, many people are falling through the cracks in the pandemic relief plan, including seniors who face an increase in the cost of living and a loss of retirement investment income. Will the government make the CERB a universal benefit to ensure that all Canadians who need help get help? If not, will the government increase old age security and allow seniors to withdraw funds from their RRSP without penalties so that they can pay their bills?\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte: Thank you very much, and I really appreciate the question. We do recognize that OAS and GIS are very important parts of the retirement income of Canadians, particularly lower-income seniors. We've already introduced measures like the GST credit supplement to help seniors. The CERB is there for working seniors who have lost income as a result of COVID-19. We've also reduced the mandatory retirement withdrawals by 25%, and we've also spent half a billion dollars to support organizations that assist vulnerable Canadians, including seniors\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We are going back to Mr. Manly. Thank you.\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte: I do recognize that there's more to be done. Thank you.\nMr. Paul Manly: Many small businesses do not meet the eligibility requirements for the various relief programs on offer, particularly sole proprietorships. I have a long list of businesses in my riding that are missing out. At the same time, we have large companies in this country that use tax havens and loopholes to avoid paying their fair share of public services. Will the government ensure that the needs of small businesses are met and withhold relief from corporations that use tax havens to avoid paying taxes in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): I want to thank the hon. member for the question. Small businesses are indeed incredibly important to all of our communities across the country. That is why we have implemented many measures to help them weather this difficult period in COVID-19. Whether it is a small business loan, a wage subsidy or commercial rent assistance, or just lowering the cost by deferring GST or HST or customs duties, many measures have been put forward to help our small businesses through this very difficult time.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr. Manly, you may have a very short question.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Thank you, Madam Chair. As we navigate this pandemic crisis, we are also in the middle of another major crisis: the climate emergency. Will this government develop its economic recovery plan for the pandemic with the climate emergency at the forefront of its planning?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The hon. minister has 15 seconds.\n",
      "Hon. Jonathan Wilkinson (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): Thank you for the question. The focus of the government at the present time is on combatting the virus and on steps to start to relax some of the measures that have been taken. As we look forward, we need to learn from the experiences of this crisis as well as look forward to some of the looming crises on the horizon. Climate change is one of those, and we certainly intend to reflect on resilience for the economy as we move forward.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Now we will go to Ms. Ashton.\n",
      "Ms. Niki Ashton (ChurchillKeewatinook Aski, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is to the Minister of Indigenous Services. First nations across northern Manitoba and many others across the country have been doing everything possible to keep COVID-19 out of their communities. Many here have implemented strict lockdowns or travel restrictions, but the federal government has done virtually nothing to deal with the chronic issues that have made them vulnerable in the first place, such as overcrowded housing and the lack of hospitals. We have to be very concerned about a possible second deadly wave of COVID-19. What is your government doing to support communities in the face of that possibility? Why isn't the government supporting the call for a ventilation centre in Berens River, a hospital in Cross Lake, a hospital in the Island Lake region? If the government couldn't act in time for this first wave of the pandemic, can it at least act in time for a potential second wave?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Miller (Minister of Indigenous Services): Indeed, Madam Chair, one of the reflections we have in coming out of this global pandemic is that we don't want to go into the next one with the same social determinants of health that have made indigenous communities more vulnerable and more susceptible to contracting and then spreading COVID-19. A lot of the historic housing funds that we have mobilized in order to address overcrowding in particular are cold comfort to those communities that are still finding themselves in overcrowded situations. In the staged approach to the epidemic and the onset of COVID-19, there are many measures that Indigenous Services Canada and as a whole of government we will deploy, including surge capacity, increased PPE, and nurses and doctors. Obviously, we are looking for a medical solution to a medical problem, and that is what we will spare no expense or resource to address as indigenous communities continue to face the looming threat of a second wave of COVID-19 as they start to relax some of their confinement procedures.\n",
      "Ms. Niki Ashton: Again, Madam Chair, to the Minister of Indigenous Services, many of us across northern Canada are deeply concerned by the outbreak taking place in northern Saskatchewan, centred in La Loche. The outbreak started from a worker who came back from a work camp in Fort McMurray. These camps are making workers sick, and they are proving deadly for first nations and northern communities. These work camps put public health at risk during a pandemic. Your government says it's committed to doing everything it can to keep first nations safe, yet nothing has been done to support calls for pandemic shutdowns. Will you support first nations in their call for shutdowns during this pandemic to save lives now?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Miller: Madam Chair, the situation in La Loche is a very pressing concern. Members won't be surprised to know that that number will only increase as the days go on and as we implement aggressive testing and contact tracing. We are working with surrounding first nations and communities and with the Mtis and Dene communities in La Loche to ensure that medical precautions are being put into place and that strict social distancing is being put into effect. This is a situation that is very much evolving minute by minute, and it is something for which we have deployed additional resources, along with Meadow Lake and the Northern Inter-Tribal Health Authority to ensure that there is a health response to a health problem. Clearly, we need coordination with the provinces to ensure that we have a seamless approach\n",
      "Ms. Niki Ashton: My question referred to La Loche, but this is a broader issue. There are many work camps, including here in our north, that first nations are extremely concerned about. Will your government step in to support their calls for temporary shutdowns at this time?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Miller: One of the things we see as we see the evolving dynamic and the potential spreads, particularly the fear of clusters as communities, provinces, territories may choose to relax certain measures, is the need to have a more targeted approach as to how the economy reacts and deals with it, particularly in northern and vulnerable communities. This is something for which we will need to have a serious approach, with both the Minister of Natural Resources and also our provincial counterparts, to make sure that we aren't taking hasty measures to reopen the economy while we're trying to protectand this is our most important goalindigenous communities from getting exposed and spreading COVID-19.\n",
      "Ms. Niki Ashton: Madam Chair, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries. Hundreds of fishers and their families here in Manitoba who work with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation are desperately calling for emergency support. Many are calling on the federal government to also work with them and the FFMC to redirect their product to domestic markets and communities here at home to address the growing food insecurity people are facing. When will your government announce support for inland fishers, including here in Manitoba, and will you work to ensure that their product, healthy fish, can be provided here at home for people who need it?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Madam Chair, we know that COVID-19 is having extreme impacts on northern first nations communities, especially with regard to fisheries in areas that rely on it for not only their livelihoods but also for the cultural importance. Indigenous harvesters are able to access through the aboriginal financial institutions the $306 million we've put in for support for indigenous small and medium-sized businesses. The funding allows for short-term interest-free loans as well as for non-repayable contributions. We also announced earlier that the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency has made available $15 million in non-repayable support for businesses. We know that there's more that needs to be done to support our first nations communities as well as our harvesters. We're doing everything we can and we will continue to make sure that we address those needs.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): I need to interrupt you. We'll now hear from ClaudeDeBellefeuille.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Thank you, MadamChair. I don't want to talk about tax cheats. I don't want to talk about the $1billion that the government used to track down tax cheats. I want to ask the minister why she isn't taking this opportunity to learn from countries that are putting an end to tax avoidance in tax havens, a legal but immoral practice in this day and age. Can she explain why she isn't showing leadership by convincing cabinet to change course and eliminate the legal measure known as tax avoidance, which enables companies to avoid paying taxes and put money in tax havens?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: MadamChair, as soon as our government took office in 2015, we made it a priority to crack down on tax cheats. Our government's historic investments of almost $1 billion have ensured that the agency can access the necessary resources for its work. We're already starting to see the results. As I was saying, I established an expert advisory committee to advise us. We've also been working on tightening the rules of the voluntary disclosures program. We've entered into country-by-country agreements that make it possible to share information. We're auditing four countries a year. We're working with the OECD. Currently, over 50 criminal investigations are related to international tax evasion.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Ms.DeBellefeuille has the floor.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: MadamChair, does the minister realize that she's being filmed and recorded and that she isn't answering my question? I don't want to talk about cheats. I want to talk about companies that use a legal mechanism to avoid paying taxes and to put their money in tax havens. I can see that she doesn't want to answer my question. I'll ask her another question. Can she tell me how many companies legally take advantage of tax avoidance in tax havens? How much money escapes taxation through this legal mechanism? The government could invest this money in its economic recovery post-COVID-19.\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: MadamChair, I completely understand my colleague's impatience. However, she must understand that this type of issue is very complex. Under the former Conservative government, the issue wasn't a priority at all. Regarding tax evasion abroad, our leadership made it possible for the agency to conduct twice as many audits in three years as it conducted in 10 years under the Conservatives. Over 50criminal investigations related to international tax evasion are ongoing.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Go ahead, Madame DeBellefeuille.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: MadamChair, I'm not impatient. However, I don't understand the government's lack of willingness to eliminate this mechanism, which is legal but completely immoral. Our questions remain unanswered. My next question is for the Minister of Finance. The Fdration de la relve agricole du Qubec and the UPA approached the Minister of Finance two weeks ago and still haven't received a response regarding the following issue. We know that many farms don't pay wages. As a result, these farms are being penalized because they aren't eligible for the $40,000 in loans available through the Canada emergency business account. To qualify for these loans, the farms needed a payroll of $20,000 to $1.5million in 2019. Does the Minister of Finance plan to respond to the farmers who want to access the $40,000 in loans?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Thank you, Ms.DeBellefeuille. We know that the Canada emergency response benefit must be made available to the people who need it.\nMr. Damien Kurek: On a point of order\nHon. Bill Morneau: That's why we're considering our approach. Of course\nMr. Damien Kurek: I have a point of order.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): MinisterMorneau, please wait a moment. A member is raising a point of order. Mr. Kurek, do you have a point of order? You have to unmute yourself.\n",
      "Mr. Damien Kurek: Yes. It's that the translation is at the same volume as the minister.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): You'll have to put yourself on English. Rather, the minister has to put himself on French.\nHon. Bill Morneau: Sorry. I was on the English channel. We know that the people who need the Canada emergency response benefit must have access to it. That's why we're considering the challenges each time. If I receive a letter, I'll look at it. Once we have a response, we'll pass it directly on to the member.\nThe Chair: The next question will go to Mr. Richards.\n",
      "Mr. Blake Richards (BanffAirdrie, CPC): This question is for the tourism minister. The tourism ministry was one of the first and hardest-hit industries during this crisis, yet despite the Prime Minister's announcement over three weeks ago now of a plan to bring forward a tourism-specific aid package to help the businesses who employ millions of unemployed Canadians who work in tourism, there's still been nothing from this government. When will the government finally act to provide help to this nearly crippled industry?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages): Mr. Chair, obviously we know that the tourism sector has been deeply impacted. I had the chance to talk to many of the leaders in the sector, and clearly there's a lot of anxiety. We also had the chance to work with all the G20 ministers of tourism all together, and we know we have to act\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Richards.\n",
      "Mr. Blake Richards: I didn't really get much of an answer there. I hear a lot about talking and not much on action. Tourism-based communities like the ones in Banff and Canmore, which I represent, are tourism-based economies and have unemployment rates of 85% or higher. They also don't qualify for a lot of the programs because they're seasonal businesses and make most or all of their revenues for the year from May to October, so they're at risk of losing their entire season. I have a couple of very specific questions. Will the government consider making changes to the programs to make sure that seasonal businesses can get help? What does the government plan to do to help the tourism industry recover after the pandemic?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Thank you. Obviously, the tourism sector has access to many measures, including the CEBA account, the $40,000 account. They also have access to the wage subsidy. They have access to rent relief. They will be having access also to funding through the regional development agencies, and we'll be coming up with the details soon. Of course, in my colleague's riding of Banff, which is a fantastic place and a tourism gem, they will have access to the support through WD, western economic diversification. If there are particular cases you would like to raise with me, I would be more than happy to talk to you to see how, on the ground, we can help the tourism operators.\n",
      "Mr. Blake Richards: Mr. Chair, clearly the tourism minister hasn't been listening. She says she's talking to the industry. She's not hearing their concerns. What she just said does not address many of the concerns they have about being seasonal industries. It doesn't address anything about their concerns about the hard economic recovery they'll have after the pandemic. Let's try another minister and see if we can get some answers. Another industry that's very hard hit in my province and my riding is the oil and gas industry. It's another industry the Prime Minister has promised to help, but there hasn't been anything. Clearly there's a pattern here. The only so-called assistance there's been to help hurting Albertans in the oil patch has been measures to speed up the death of the industry that they work in. Will the Liberal government ever show any concern for Albertans? Will they bring forward a plan to preserve Canadian jobs? Will they put forward a plan to ensure the use of Canadian oil before oil coming in from places like Saudi Arabia?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources): In fact, Mr. Chair, the federal government has taken several steps in recent weeks that will meaningfully support workers and communities that depend on this industry. We have the Canada emergency wage subsidy, which covers 75% of an employee's wages for the employer. We have more liquidity for oil and gas companies through new loans of $15 million to $60 million from the Business Development Bank of Canada. We continue to step forward in our response to the impacts of COVID-19 on my province here in Newfoundland and Labrador and on Alberta and Saskatchewan. These three provinces are being hit by two crises at the same time, a crisis of demand for oil and gas on the world markets and of course a crisis of public health with COVID-19.\n",
      "Mr. Blake Richards: Mr. Chair, a lot of these things we're hearing about aren't going to actually help the industry to recover. What we need to see is the government give the industry and the private sector the opportunity to succeed. Maybe what they could do is consider expediting the approval of billions of dollars of private sector projects that would put thousands and thousands of Canadians back to work. Will the government consider looking at ways that we can expedite projects? Will they look at ways that we can encourage the use of Canadian oil before the use of oil coming in from places like Saudi Arabia?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Mr. Chair, we have been working with our provincial partners. We have been working with businesses of all sizes in the oil and gas industry. We have been working with labour, concentrating on workers and concentrating on the companies that support those jobs to make sure that they remain whole and those jobs will be there for those workers. We're particularly proud of our orphan wells program, which was launched by the Alberta government in conjunction with us. It was launched last week. I am pleased to inform this House that the uptake on applications for that program is significantly higher than even we expected.\n"
    ],
    "length": 22726,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 60,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting covered the issues with different kinds of mics, progress on the Aurora project, effectiveness of spectral subtraction, adding parameter to spectral coefficient, and studying energy in the data, along with a short discussion on student housing. The team thought that the LDA was doing well for the Aurora project, where the team had made good progress. The linear normalization was not as good. For spectral subtraction, the team discussed recreating data with FFT of combining the Weiner filtering with the signal subspace. The team had not made much progress on using spectral coefficients for voice-unvoice. The current approach was to study the variance, so other ideas were suggested. The meeting ended with a short discussion on student housing and a graduate student's interest in studying energy.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor C: Uh , is it the twenty - fourth ?\nPhD F: now we 're on .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh Chuck , is the mike type wireless {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yes .\nPhD A: wireless headset ? OK .\nPhD F: Yes .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: For you it is .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . We uh {disfmarker} we abandoned the lapel because they sort of were not too {disfmarker} not too hot , not too cold , they were {disfmarker} you know , they were {vocalsound} uh , far enough away that you got more background noise , uh , and uh {disfmarker} and so forth\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: but they weren't so close that they got quite the {disfmarker} you know , the really good {disfmarker} No , th\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: they {disfmarker} I mean they didn't {disfmarker} Wait a minute . I 'm saying that wrong . They were not so far away that they were really good representative distant mikes ,\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: but on the other hand they were not so close that they got rid of all the interference . So it was no {disfmarker} didn't seem to be a good point to them . On the other hand if you only had to have one mike in some ways you could argue the lapel was a good choice , precisely because it 's in the middle .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: There 's uh , some kinds of junk that you get with these things that you don't get with the lapel uh , little mouth clicks and breaths and so forth are worse with these than with the lapel , but given the choice we {disfmarker} there seemed to be very strong opinions for uh , getting rid of lapels .\nPhD A: The mike number is {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: So ,\nPhD F: Uh , your mike number 's written on the back of that unit there .\nPhD A: Oh yeah . One .\nPhD F: And then the channel number 's usually one less than that .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , OK . OK .\nPhD F: It - it 's one less than what 's written on the back of your {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK . OK .\nPhD F: yeah . So you should be zero , actually .\nPhD A: Hello ? Yeah .\nPhD F: For your uh , channel number .\nPhD A: Yep , yep .\nProfessor C: And you should do a lot of talking so we get a lot more of your pronunciations . no , they don't {disfmarker} don't have a {disfmarker} have any Indian pronunciations .\n",
      "PhD F: So what we usually do is um , we typically will have our meetings\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: and then at the end of the meetings we 'll read the digits . Everybody goes around and reads the digits on the {disfmarker} the bottom of their forms .\nProfessor C: Session R\nPhD D: R - nineteen ?\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor C: R - nineteen .\nPhD F: Yeah . We 're {disfmarker} This is session R - nineteen .\n",
      "Professor C: If you say so . O K . Do we have anything like an agenda ? What 's going on ? Um . I guess um . So . One thing {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Sunil 's here for the summer ?\nProfessor C: Sunil 's here for the summer , right . Um , so , one thing is to talk about a kick off meeting maybe uh , and then just uh , I guess uh , progress reports individually , and then uh , plans for where we go between now and then , pretty much . Um .\n",
      "PhD F: I could say a few words about um , some of the uh , compute stuff that 's happening around here , so that people in the group know .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm . OK . Why don't you start with that ? That 's sort of {disfmarker}\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor C: Yeah ?\n",
      "PhD F: We um {disfmarker} So we just put in an order for about twelve new machines , uh , to use as sort of a compute farm . And um , uh , we ordered uh , SUN - Blade - one - hundreds , and um , I 'm not sure exactly how long it 'll take for those to come in , but , uh , in addition , we 're running {disfmarker} So the plan for using these is , uh , we 're running P - make and Customs here and Andreas has sort of gotten that all uh , fixed up and up to speed . And he 's got a number of little utilities that make it very easy to um , {vocalsound} run things using P - make and Customs . You don't actually have to write P - make scripts and things like that . The simplest thing {disfmarker} And I can send an email around or , maybe I should do an FAQ on the web site about it or something . Um ,\n",
      "Professor C: How about an email that points to the FAQ ,\nPhD F: there 's a c\nProfessor C: you know what I 'm saying ?\nPhD F: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: so that you can {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Uh , there 's a command , uh , that you can use called \" run command \" . \" Run dash command \" , \" run hyphen command \" . And , if you say that and then some job that you want to execute , uh , it will find the fastest currently available machine , and export your job to that machine , and uh {disfmarker} and run it there and it 'll duplicate your environment . So you can try this as a simple test with uh , the L S command . So you can say \" run dash command L S \" , and , um , it 'll actually export that {vocalsound} LS command to some machine in the institute , and um , do an LS on your current directory . So , substitute LS for whatever command you want to run , and um {disfmarker} And that 's a simple way to get started using {disfmarker} using this . And , so , soon , when we get all the new machines up , {vocalsound} um , e then we 'll have lots more compute to use . Now th one of the nice things is that uh , each machine that 's part of the P - make and Customs network has attributes associated with it . Uh , attributes like how much memory the machine has , what its speed is , what its operating system , and when you use something like \" run command \" , you can specify those attributes for your program . For example if you only want your thing to run under Linux , you can give it the Linux attribute , and then it will find the fastest available Linux machine and run it on that . So . You can control where your jobs go , to a certain extent , all the way down to an individual machine . Each machine has an attribute which is the name of itself . So you can give that as an attribute and it 'll only run on that . If there 's already a job running , on some machine that you 're trying to select , your job will get queued up , and then when that resource , that machine becomes available , your job will get exported there . So , there 's a lot of nice features to it and it kinda helps to balance the load of the machines and uh , right now Andreas and I have been the main ones using it and we 're {disfmarker} Uh . The SRI recognizer has all this P - make customs stuff built into it .\n",
      "Professor C: So as I understand , you know , he 's using all the machines and you 're using all the machines ,\nPhD F: So .\nProfessor C: is the rough division of {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah . Exactly . Yeah , you know , I {disfmarker} I sort of got started {comment} using the recognizer just recently and uh , uh I fired off a training job , and then I fired off a recognition job and I get this email about midnight from Andreas saying , \" uh , are you running two {vocalsound} trainings simultaneously s my m my jobs are not getting run . \" So I had to back off a little bit . But , soon as we get some more machines then uh {disfmarker} then we 'll have more compute available . So , um , that 's just a quick update about what we 've got . So .\n",
      "Grad G: Um , I have {disfmarker} I have a question about the uh , parallelization ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: So , um , let 's say I have like , a thousand little {disfmarker} little jobs to do ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Um , how do I do it with \" run command \" ? I mean do {disfmarker}\nPhD F: You could write a script uh , which called run command on each sub - job\nGrad G: Uh - huh . A thousand times ?\nPhD F: right ? But you probably wanna be careful with that\n",
      "Grad G: OK .\nPhD F: because um , you don't wanna saturate the network . Uh , so , um , you know , you should {disfmarker} you should probably not run more than , say ten jobs yourself at any one time , uh , just because then it would keep other people {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Oh , too much file transfer and stuff .\n",
      "PhD F: Well it 's not that so much as that , you know , e with {disfmarker} if everybody ran fifty jobs at once then it would just bring everything to a halt and , you know , people 's jobs would get delayed , so it 's sort of a sharing thing . Um ,\nGrad G: OK .\n",
      "PhD F: so you should try to limit it to somet sometim some number around ten jobs at a time . Um . So if you had a script for example that had a thousand things it needed to run , um , you 'd somehow need to put some logic in there if you were gonna use \" run command \" , uh , to only have ten of those going at a time . And uh , then , when one of those finished you 'd fire off another one . Um ,\n",
      "Professor C: I remember I {disfmarker} I forget whether it was when the Rutgers or {disfmarker} or Hopkins workshop , I remember one of the workshops I was at there were {disfmarker} everybody was real excited cuz they got twenty - five machines and there was some kind of P - make like thing that sit sent things out .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: So all twenty - five people were sending things to all twenty - five machines\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: and {vocalsound} and things were a lot less efficient than if you 'd just use your own machine .\nPhD F: Yeah . Yep . Yeah , exactly . Yeah , you have to be a little bit careful .\nProfessor C: as I recall , but . Yeah .\nPhD D: Hmm .\nPhD F: Um , but uh , you can also {disfmarker} If you have that level of parallelization um , and you don't wanna have to worry about writing the logic in {disfmarker} in a Perl script to take care of that , you can use um , P - make\n",
      "Grad G: Just do P - make .\nPhD F: and {disfmarker} and you basically write a Make file that uh , you know your final job depends on these one thousand things ,\nGrad G: s Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: and when you run P - make , uh , on your Make file , you can give it the dash capital J and {disfmarker} and then a number ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: and that number represents how many uh , machines to use at once . And then it 'll make sure that it never goes above that .\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD F: So ,\n",
      "Grad G: Right . OK .\nPhD F: I can get some documentation .\nPhD D: So it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not systematically queued . I mean all the jobs are running . If you launch twenty jobs , they are all running . Alright .\nPhD F: It depends . If you {disfmarker} \" Run command \" , that I mentioned before , is {disfmarker} doesn't know about other things that you might be running .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nPhD F: So , it would be possible to run a hundred run jobs at once ,\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: and they wouldn't know about each other . But if you use P - make , then , it knows about all the jobs that it has to run\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: and it can control , uh , how many it runs simultaneously .\nProfessor C: So \" run command \" doesn't use P - make , or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD F: It uses \" export \" underlyingly . But , if you {disfmarker} i It 's meant to be run one job at a time ? So you could fire off a thousand of those , and it doesn't know {disfmarker} any one of those doesn't know about the other ones that are running .\nProfessor C: So why would one use that rather than P - make ?\n",
      "PhD F: Well , if you have , um {disfmarker} Like , for example , uh if you didn't wanna write a P - make script and you just had a , uh {disfmarker} an HTK training job that you know is gonna take uh , six hours to run , and somebody 's using , uh , the machine you typically use , you can say \" run command \" and your HTK thing and it 'll find another machine , the fastest currently available machine and {disfmarker} and run your job there .\n",
      "Professor C: Now , does it have the same sort of behavior as P - make , which is that , you know , if you run something on somebody 's machine and they come in and hit a key then it {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yes . Yeah , there are um {disfmarker} Right . So some of the machines at the institute , um , have this attribute called \" no evict \" . And if you specify that , in {disfmarker} in one of your attribute lines , then it 'll go to a machine which your job won't be evicted from .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: But , the machines that don't have that attribute , if a job gets fired up on that , which could be somebody 's desktop machine , and {disfmarker} and they were at lunch ,\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: they come back from lunch and they start typing on the console , then your machine will get evicted {disfmarker} your job {comment} will get evicted from their machine and be restarted on another machine . Automatically . So {disfmarker} which can cause you to lose time , right ? If you had a two hour job , and it got halfway through and then somebody came back to their machine and it got evicted . So . If you don't want your job to run on a machine where it could be evicted , then you give it the minus {disfmarker} the attribute , you know , \" no evict \" , and it 'll pick a machine that it can't be evicted from . So .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , what {disfmarker} what about {disfmarker} I remember always used to be an issue , maybe it 's not anymore , that if you {disfmarker} if something required {disfmarker} if your machine required somebody hitting a key in order to evict things that are on it so you could work , but if you were logged into it from home ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and you weren't hitting any keys ? cuz you were , home ?\nPhD F: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure how that works .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Uh , it seems like Andreas did something for that .\nProfessor C: Hmm .\nPhD F: Um .\nProfessor C: OK . We can ask him sometime .\nPhD F: But {disfmarker} Yeah . I don't know whether it monitors the keyboard or actually looks at the console TTY , so maybe if you echoed something to the you know , dev {disfmarker} dev console or something .\nProfessor C: You probably wouldn't ordinarily , though . Yeah . Right ? You probably wouldn't ordinarily .\nPhD F: Hmm ?\n",
      "Professor C: I mean you sort of {disfmarker} you 're at home and you 're trying to log in , and it takes forever to even log you in , and you probably go , \" screw this \" ,\nPhD F: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} You know .\nPhD F: Yeah . Yeah , so , um ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: yeah . I {disfmarker} I can {disfmarker} I 'm not sure about that one .\nProfessor C: yeah .\nPhD F: But uh .\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , I need a little orientation about this environment and uh scr s how to run some jobs here because I never d did anything so far with this X emissions\nPhD F: OK .\nPhD A: So , I think maybe I 'll ask you after the meeting .\nPhD F: Um . Yeah . Yeah , and {disfmarker} and also uh , Stephane 's a {disfmarker} a really good resource for that if you can't find me .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah , yeah . Yep . OK , sure\nPhD D: Mmm .\nPhD F: Especially with regard to the Aurora stuff .\n",
      "PhD A: OK .\nPhD F: He {disfmarker} he knows that stuff better than I do .\nProfessor C: OK . Well , why don't we uh , uh , Sunil since you 're {vocalsound} haven't {disfmarker} haven't been at one of these yet , why don't yo you tell us what 's {disfmarker} what 's up with you ? Wh - what you 've been up to , hopefully .\n",
      "PhD A: Um . Yeah . So , uh , shall I start from {disfmarker} Well I don't know how may I {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} OK . Uh , I think I 'll start from the post uh Aurora submission maybe .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , yeah , after the submission the {disfmarker} what I 've been working on mainly was to take {disfmarker} take other s submissions and then over their system , what they submitted , because we didn't have any speech enhancement system in {disfmarker} in ours . So {disfmarker} So I tried uh , And u First I tried just LDA . And then I found that uh , I mean , if {disfmarker} if I combine it with LDA , it gives @ @ improvement over theirs . Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Are y are you saying LDA ?\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD F: LDA . OK .\nPhD A: So , just {disfmarker} just the LDA filters . I just plug in {disfmarker} I just take the cepstral coefficients coming from their system and then plug in LDA on top of that . But the LDA filter that I used was different from what we submitted in the proposal .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: What I did was {vocalsound} I took the LDA filter 's design using clean speech , uh , mainly because the speech is already cleaned up after the enhancement so , instead of using this , uh , narrow {disfmarker} narrow band LDA filter that we submitted uh , I got new filters . So that seems to be giving {disfmarker} uh , improving over their uh , system . Slightly . But , not very significantly . And uh , that was uh , showing any improvement over {disfmarker} final {disfmarker} by plugging in an LDA . And uh , so then after {disfmarker} after that I {disfmarker} I added uh , on - line normalization also on top of that . And that {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there also I n I found that I have to make some changes to their time constant that I used because th it has a {disfmarker} a mean and variance update time constant and {disfmarker} which is not suitable for the enhanced speech , and whatever we try it on with proposal - one . But um , I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't play with that time constant a lot , I just t g I just found that I have to reduce the value {disfmarker} I mean , I have to increase the time constant , or reduce the value of the update value . That 's all I found So I have to . Uh , Yeah . And uh , uh , the other {disfmarker} other thing what I tried was , I just um , uh , took the baseline and then ran it with the endpoint inf uh th information , just the Aurora baseline , to see that how much the baseline itself improves by just supplying the information of the {disfmarker} I mean the w speech and nonspeech . And uh , I found that the baseline itself improves by twenty - two percent by just giving the wuh .\n",
      "Professor C: Uh , can you back up a second , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I missed something , uh , I guess my mind wandered . Ad - ad When you added the on - line normalization and so forth , uh , uh things got better again ?\nPhD A: Yeah . No .\nProfessor C: or is it ?\nPhD A: No . No , things didn't get better with the same time constant that we used .\nProfessor C: Did it not ? No , no . With a different time constant .\n",
      "PhD A: With the different time constant I found that {disfmarker} I mean , I didn't get an improvement over not using on - line normalization ,\nProfessor C: Oh .\nPhD A: because I {disfmarker} I found that I would have change the value of the update factor .\nProfessor C: No you didn't , OK .\nPhD A: But I didn't play it with play {disfmarker} play quite a bit to make it better than .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: So , it 's still not {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean , the on - line normalization didn't give me any improvement .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD A: And uh , so ,\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: oh yeah So I just stopped there with the uh , speech enhancement . The {disfmarker} the other thing what I tried was the {disfmarker} adding the uh , endpoint information to the baseline and that itself gives like twenty - two percent because the {disfmarker} the second {disfmarker} the new phase is going to be with the endpointed speech . And just to get a feel of how much the baseline itself is going to change by adding this endpoint information , I just , uh , use {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: So people won't even have to worry about , uh , doing speech - nonspeech then .\nPhD A: Yeah that 's , that 's what the feeling is like . They 're going to give the endpoint information .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nProfessor C: G I guess the issue is that people do that anyway ,\nPhD F: I see .\nProfessor C: everybody does that ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: and they wanted to see , given that you 're doing that , what {disfmarker} what are the best features that you should use .\nPhD F: Yeah , I see .\n",
      "PhD A: So ,\nProfessor C: I mean clearly they 're interact . So I don't know that I entirely agree with it .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: But {disfmarker} but it might be uh {disfmarker} In some ways it might be better t to {disfmarker} rather than giving the endpoints , to have a standard that everybody uses and then interacts with .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: But , you know . It 's {disfmarker} it 's still someth reasonable .\n",
      "PhD F: So , are people supposed to assume that there is uh {disfmarker} Are {disfmarker} are people not supposed to use any speech outside of those endpoints ?\nPhD A: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Or can you then use speech outside of it for estimating background noise and things ?\n",
      "PhD A: No . No . That i I {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , yeah , exactly . I guess that is {disfmarker} that is where the consensus is . Like y you will {disfmarker} you will {disfmarker} You 'll be given the information about the beginning and the end of speech but the whole speech is available to you .\nPhD F: OK .\nPhD A: So .\nProfessor C: So it should make the spectral subtraction style things work even better ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: because you don't have the mistakes in it . Yeah ?\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD A: So that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} The baseline itself {disfmarker} I mean , it improves by twenty - two percent . I found that in s one of the SpeechDat - Car cases , that like , the Spanish one improves by just fifty percent by just putting the endpoint . w\nPhD F: Wow .\nPhD A: I mean you don't need any further speech enhancement with fifty . So , uh ,\nPhD F: So the baseline itself improves by fifty percent .\nPhD A: Yeah , by fifty percent .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: Wow .\nProfessor C: So it 's g it 's gonna be harder to {vocalsound} beat that actually .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah , so {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: so that is when uh , the {disfmarker} the qualification criteria was reduced from fifty percent to something like twenty - five percent for well - matched . And I think they have {disfmarker} they have actually changed their qualification c criteria now . And uh , Yeah , I guess after that , I just went home f I just had a vacation fo for four weeks . Uh .\nProfessor C: OK . No , that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's a good {disfmarker} good update .\n",
      "PhD A: Ye Yeah , and I {disfmarker} I came back and I started working on uh , some other speech enhancement algorithm . I mean , so {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} from the submission what I found that people have tried spectral subtraction and Wiener filtering . These are the main uh , approaches where people have tried ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: so just to {disfmarker} just to fill the space with some f few more speech enhancement algorithms to see whether it improves a lot , I {disfmarker} I 've been working on this uh , signal subspace approach for speech enhancement where you take the noisy signal and then decomposing the signal s and the noise subspace and then try to estimate the clean speech from the signal plus noise subspace . And {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: So , I 've been actually running some s So far I 've been trying it only on Matlab . I have to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to test whether it works first or not\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: and then I 'll p port it to C and I 'll update it with the repository once I find it it giving any some positive result . So , yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: S So you s you So you said one thing I want to jump on for a second . So {disfmarker} so now you 're {disfmarker} you 're getting tuned into the repository thing that he has here\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: and {disfmarker} so we we 'll have a {vocalsound} single place where the stuff is .\nPhD A: Yep . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Cool . Um , so maybe uh , just briefly , you could remind us about the related experiments . Cuz you did some stuff that you talked about last week , I guess ?\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Um , where you were also combining something {disfmarker} both of you I guess were both combining something from the uh , French Telecom system with {vocalsound} the u uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor C: I {disfmarker} I don't know whether it was system one or system two , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . It was system one . So\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: we {disfmarker} The main thing that we did is just to take the spectral subtraction from the France Telecom , which provide us some speech samples that are uh , with noise removed .\nProfessor C: So I let me {disfmarker} let me just stop you there . So then , one distinction is that uh , you were taking the actual France Telecom features and then applying something to {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh , no there is a slight different . Uh I mean , which are extracted at the handset because they had another back - end blind equalization {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . But that 's what I mean .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: But u u Sorry ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: yeah , I 'm not being {disfmarker} I 'm not being clear .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: What I meant was you had something like cepstra or something , right ?\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: And so one difference is that , I guess you were taking spectra .\nPhD A: The speech .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . But I guess it 's the s exactly the same thing because on the heads uh , handset they just applied this Wiener filter and then compute cepstral features ,\nPhD A: Yeah , the cepstral f The difference is like {disfmarker} There may be a slight difference in the way {disfmarker}\nPhD D: right ? or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD A: because they use exactly the baseline system for converting the cepstrum once you have the speech . I mean , if we are using our own code for th I mean that {disfmarker} that could be the only difference .\n",
      "PhD D: Right .\nPhD A: I mean , there is no other difference .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: But you got some sort of different result . So I 'm trying to understand it . But uh , I th\nPhD D: Yeah , well I think we should uh , have a table with all the result because I don't know I uh , I don't exactly know what are your results ? But ,\nPhD A: OK . OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Mmm . Yeah , but so we did this , and another difference I guess is that we just applied uh , proposal - one system after this without {disfmarker} well , with our modification to reduce the delay of the {disfmarker} the LDA filters ,\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: and\nPhD B: And the filter {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Well there are slight modifications , but it was the full proposal - one . In your case , if you tried just putting LDA , then maybe on - line normalization {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD A: Only LDA . Yeah . Af - I {disfmarker} after that I added on - line normalization , yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . So we just tried directly to {disfmarker} to just , keep the system as it was and , um , when we plug the spectral subtraction it improves uh , signif significantly . Um , but , what seems clear also is that we have to retune the time constants of the on - line normalization .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Because if we keep the value that was submitted uh , it doesn't help at all . You can remove on - line normalization , or put it , it doesn't change anything . Uh , uh , as long as you have the spectral subtraction . But , you can still find some kind of optimum somewhere , and we don't know where exactly\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: but , uh .\nPhD A: Yeah , I assume .\nProfessor C: So it sounds like you should look at some tables of results or something\nPhD D: Right .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: and see where i where the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} where they were different and what we can learn from it .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: without any change . OK .\nPhD B: But it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . Well ,\nPhD B: It 's the new .\nPhD D: with {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with changes ,\nPhD A: with\nPhD B: The new .\nPhD D: because we change it the system to have {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Oh yeah , I mean the {disfmarker} the new LDA filters .\nPhD B: The new .\nPhD A: I mean {disfmarker} OK .\nPhD D: Yeah . LDA filters . There are other things that we finally were shown to improve also like , the sixty - four hertz cut - off .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: w Uh , it doesn't seem to hurt on TI - digits , finally .\nPhD A: OK .\nPhD D: Maybe because of other changes .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Um , well there are some {vocalsound} minor changes , yeah .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And , right now if we look at the results , it 's , um , always better than {disfmarker} it seems always better than France Telecom for mismatch and high - mismatch . And it 's still slightly worse for well - matched .\nPhD B: But\n",
      "PhD D: Um , but this is not significant . But , the problem is that it 's not significant , but if you put this in the , mmm , uh , spreadsheet , it 's still worse . Even with very minor {disfmarker} uh , even if it 's only slightly worse for well - matched .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: And significantly better for HM . Uh , but , well . I don't think it 's importa important because when they will change their metric , uh , uh , mainly because of uh , when you p you plug the um , frame dropping in the baseline system , it will improve a lot HM , and MM ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: so , um , I guess what will happen {disfmarker} I don't know what will happen . But , the different contribution , I think , for the different test set will be more even .\n",
      "PhD A: Because the {disfmarker} your improvement on HM and MM will also go down significantly in the spreadsheet so . But the {pause} the well - matched may still {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I mean the well - matched may be the one which is least affected by adding the endpoint information .\nProfessor C: Right .\nPhD A: Yeah . So the {disfmarker} the MM {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: MM and HM are going to be v hugely affected by it . Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah , so um , yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . But they d the {disfmarker} everything I mean is like , but there that 's how they reduce {disfmarker} why they reduce the qualification to twenty - five percent or some {disfmarker} something on .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: But are they changing the weighting ?\nPhD A: Uh , no , I guess they are going ahead with the same weighting .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah . So there 's nothing on {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: I don't understand that .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: I guess I {disfmarker} I haven't been part of the discussion , so , um , it seems to me that the well - matched condition is gonna be unusual ,\nPhD A: Usual .\nProfessor C: in this case . Unusual .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: Because , um , you don't actually have good matches ordinarily for what any @ @ {disfmarker} particular person 's car is like , or\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor C: uh ,\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor C: It seems like something like the middle one is {disfmarker} is more natural .\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm . Right .\nProfessor C: So I don't know why the {pause} well - matched is uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , but actually the well {disfmarker} well the well - matched um , uh , I mean the {disfmarker} the well - matched condition is not like , uh , the one in TI - digits where uh , you have all the training , uh , conditions exactly like replicated in the testing condition also . It 's like , this is not calibrated by SNR or something . The well - matched has also some {disfmarker} some mismatch in that which is other than the {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: The well wa matched has mismatch ?\n",
      "PhD A: has {disfmarker} has also some slight mismatches , unlike the TI - digits where it 's like prefectly matched\nPhD F: Perfect to match .\nPhD A: because it 's artificially added noise .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: But this is natural recording .\nProfessor C: Yeah . So remind me of what well - matched meant ?\nPhD A: The {disfmarker} the well - matched is like {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: You 've told me many times .\n",
      "PhD A: the {disfmarker} the well - matched is defined like it 's seventy percent of the whole database is used for training and thirty percent for testing .\nPhD D: Yeah . Well , so it means that if the database is large enough , it 's matched .\nPhD A: It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Because it\nPhD A: OK , it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: in each set you have a range of conditions {disfmarker} Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Right . So , I mean , yeah , unless they deliberately chose it to be different , which they didn't because they want it to be well - matched , it is pretty much {disfmarker} You know , so it 's {disfmarker} so it 's sort of saying if you {disfmarker}\nPhD F: It 's {disfmarker} it 's not guaranteed though .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh , it 's not guaranteed .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Right .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah because the m the main {disfmarker} major reason for the m\nProfessor C: Right .\nPhD A: the main mismatch is coming from the amount of noise and the silence frames and all those present in the database actually .\nProfessor C: Again , if you have enough {disfmarker} if you have enough {disfmarker}\nPhD A: No yeah , yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: So it 's sort of i i it 's sort of saying OK , so you {disfmarker} much as you train your dictation machine for talking into your computer , um , you {disfmarker} you have a car , and so you drive it around a bunch and {disfmarker} and record noise conditions , or something , and then {disfmarker} I don't think that 's very realistic , I mean I th\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: I {disfmarker} I you know , so I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} you know , I guess they 're saying that if you were a company that was selling the stuff commercially , that you would have a bunch of people driving around in a bunch of cars , and {disfmarker} and you would have something that was roughly similar and maybe that 's the argument , but I 'm not sure I buy it , so .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh , So What else is going on ?\n",
      "PhD D: Mmm . You Yeah . We are playing {disfmarker} we are also playing , trying to put other spectral subtraction mmm , in the code . Um , it would be a very simple spectral subtraction , on the um , mel energies which I already tested but without the um frame dropping actually , and I think it 's important to have frame dropping if you use spectral subtraction .\nPhD F: Is it {disfmarker} is spectral subtraction typically done on the {disfmarker} after the mel , uh , scaling or is it done on the FFT bins ?\nPhD D: Um ,\n",
      "PhD F: Does it matter , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: I d I don't know . Well , it 's both {disfmarker} both uh , cases can i\nPhD F: Oh .\nPhD D: Yeah . So - some of the proposal , uh , we 're doing this on the bin {disfmarker} on the FFT bins ,\nPhD F: Hmm .\nPhD D: others on the um , mel energies . You can do both , but I cannot tell you what 's {disfmarker} which one might be better or {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Hmm .\nPhD A: I guess if you want to reconstruct the speech , it may be a good idea to do it on FFT bins .\nPhD D: I don't know . Yeah , but\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: But for speech recognition , it may not . I mean it may not be very different if you do it on mel warped or whether you do it on FFT . So you 're going to do a linear weighting anyway after that .\nPhD F: I see .\nPhD A: Well {disfmarker} Yeah ?\nPhD F: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: So , it may not be really a big different .\nPhD D: Well , it gives something different , but I don't know what are the , pros and cons of both .\nPhD A: It I Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: Hmm .\nPhD A: So\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD A: The other thing is like when you 're putting in a speech enhancement technique , uh , is it like one stage speech enhancement ? Because everybody seems to have a mod two stages of speech enhancement in all the proposals , which is really giving them some improvement .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I mean they just do the same thing again once more .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And {disfmarker} So , there 's something that is good about doing it {disfmarker} I mean , to cleaning it up once more .\nPhD D: Yeah , it might be .\nPhD A: Yeah ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: so we can {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So maybe in my implementation I should also try to inspire me from this kind of thing\nPhD A: Yeah . That 's what\n",
      "Professor C: Well , the other thing would be to combine what you 're doing .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor C: I mean maybe one or {disfmarker} one or the other of the things that you 're doing would benefit from the other happening first .\nPhD A: That 's wh Yeah . So ,\nProfessor C: Right , so he 's doing a signal subspace thing , maybe it would work better if you 'd already done some simple spectral subtraction , or maybe vi maybe the other way around ,\nPhD D: Yeah , mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: you know ?\n",
      "PhD A: So I 've been thinking about combining the Wiener filtering with signal subspace ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I mean just to see all {disfmarker} some {disfmarker} some such permutation combination to see whether it really helps or not .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: How is it {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess I 'm ignorant about this , how does {disfmarker} I mean , since Wiener filter also assumes that you 're {disfmarker} that you 're adding together the two signals , how is {disfmarker} how is that differ from signal subspace ?\nPhD A: The signal subspace ? The {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: The signal subspace approach has actually an in - built Wiener filtering in it .\nProfessor C: Oh , OK .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . It is like a KL transform followed by a Wiener filter . Is the signal is {disfmarker} is a signal substrate .\nProfessor C: Oh , oh , OK so the difference is the KL .\nPhD A: So , the {disfmarker} the different {disfmarker} the c the {disfmarker} the advantage of combining two things is mainly coming from the signal subspace approach doesn't work very well if the SNR is very bad . It 's {disfmarker} it works very poorly with the poor SNR conditions , and in colored noise .\n",
      "Professor C: I see . So essentially you could do simple spectral subtraction , followed by a KL transform , followed by a\nPhD A: Wiener filtering . It 's a {disfmarker} it 's a cascade of two s\n",
      "Professor C: Wiener filter . Yeah , in general , you don't {disfmarker} that 's right you don't wanna othorg orthogonalize if the things are noisy . Actually . Um , that was something that uh , Herve and I were talking about with um , the multi - band stuff , that if you 're converting things to from uh , bands , groups of bands into cepstral coef you know , local sort of local cepstral coefficients that it 's not that great to do it if it 's noisy .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . OK . Yeah . So .\nProfessor C: Uh , so .\n",
      "PhD A: So that {disfmarker} that 's one reason maybe we could combine s some {disfmarker} something to improve SNR a little bit , first stage ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: and then do a something in the second stage which could take it further .\nPhD D: What was your point about {disfmarker} about colored noise there ?\nPhD A: Oh , the colored noise uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: the colored noise {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the v the signal subspace approach has {disfmarker} I mean , it {disfmarker} it actually depends on inverting the matrices . So it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} ac the covariance matrix of the noise . So if {disfmarker} if it is not positive definite ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean it has a {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} It doesn't behave very well if it is not positive definite ak It works very well with white noise because we know for sure that it has a positive definite .\nProfessor C: So you should do spectral subtraction and then add noise .\nPhD A: So the way they get around is like they do an inverse filtering , first of the colo colored noise\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: and then make the noise white ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: and then finally when you reconstruct the speech back , you do this filtering again .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , right .\nProfessor C: I was only half kidding . I mean if you {disfmarker} sort of {vocalsound} you do the s spectral subtraction , that also gets rid {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: and then you {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} then add a little bit l noise {disfmarker} noise addition {disfmarker} I mean , that sort of what J {disfmarker} JRASTA does , in a way .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: If you look at what JRASTA doing essentially i i it 's equivalent to sort of adding a little {disfmarker} adding a little noise ,\nPhD A: Huh ? Uh - huh .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: in order to get rid of the effects of noise .\nPhD A: So .\nProfessor C: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Uh , yeah . So there is this . And maybe we {disfmarker} well we find some people so that {vocalsound} uh , agree to maybe work with us , and they have implementation of VTS techniques so it 's um , Vector Taylor Series that are used to mmm , {vocalsound} uh f to model the transformation between clean cepstra and noisy cepstra . So . Well , if you take the standard model of channel plus noise , uh , it 's {disfmarker} it 's a nonlinear eh uh , transformation in the cepstral domain .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm . Yes .\n",
      "PhD D: And uh , there is a way to approximate this using uh , first - order or second - order Taylor Series and it can be used for {vocalsound} uh , getting rid of the noise and the channel effect .\nProfessor C: Who is doing this ?\nPhD D: Uh w working in the cepstral domain ? So there is one guy in Grenada ,\nPhD B: Yeah , in Grenada one of my friend .\nPhD D: and another in {pause} uh , Lucent that I met at ICASSP .\nProfessor C: Who 's the guy in Grenada ?\nPhD D: uh ,\n",
      "PhD B: Uh , Jose Carlos Segura .\nProfessor C: I don't know him .\nPhD A: This VTS has been proposed by CMU ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Is it {disfmarker} is it the CMU ? Yeah , yeah , OK .\nPhD B: Yeah , yeah , yeah . Originally the idea was from CMU .\nPhD A: From C .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , it 's again a different thing {vocalsound} {vocalsound} that could be tried . Um ,\nProfessor C: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah , so at any rate , you 're looking general , uh , standing back from it , looking at ways to combine one form or another of uh , noise removal , uh , with {disfmarker} with these other things we have ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: uh , looks like a worthy thing to {disfmarker} to do here .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , yeah . But , yeah . But for sure there 's required to {disfmarker} that requires to re - check everything else , and re - optimize the other things\nProfessor C: Oh yeah .\nPhD D: and , for sure the on - line normalization may be the LDA filter . Um ,\nProfessor C: Well one of the {disfmarker} seems like one of the things to go through next week when Hari 's here ,\nPhD D: I {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: cuz Hari 'll have his own ideas too {disfmarker} or {pause} I guess not next week ,\n",
      "PhD D: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor C: week and a half , uh , will be sort of go through these alternatives , what we 've seen so far , and come up with some game plans . Um . You know . So , I mean one way would {disfmarker} he Here are some alternate visions . I mean one would be , you look at a few things very quickly , you pick on something that looks like it 's promising and then everybody works really hard on the same {disfmarker} different aspects of the same thing . Another thing would be to have t to {disfmarker} to pick two pol two plausible things , and {disfmarker} and you know , have t sort of two working things for a while until we figure out what 's better ,\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and then , you know , uh , but , w um , uh , he 'll have some ideas on that too .\n",
      "PhD A: The other thing is to , uh {disfmarker} Most of the speech enhancement techniques have reported results on small vocabulary tasks . But we {disfmarker} we going to address this Wall Street Journal in our next stage , which is also going to be a noisy task so s very few people have reported something on using some continuous speech at all . So , there are some {disfmarker} I mean , I was looking at some literature on speech enhancement applied to large vocabulary tasks and spectral subtraction doesn't seems to be the thing to do for large vocabulary tasks . And it 's {disfmarker} Always people have shown improvement with Wiener filtering and maybe subspace approach over spectral subtraction everywhere . But if we {disfmarker} if we have to use simple spectral subtraction , we may have to do some optimization {pause} to make it work @ @ .\n",
      "Professor C: So they 're making {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} Somebody 's generating Wall Street Journal with additive {disfmarker} artificially added noise or something ?\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: Sort of a {disfmarker} sort of like what they did with TI - digits , and ?\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah , OK .\nPhD A: I m I guess Guenter Hirsch is in charge of that . Guenter Hirsch and TI .\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD A: Maybe Roger {disfmarker} r Roger , maybe in charge of .\n",
      "Professor C: And then they 're {disfmarker} they 're uh , uh , generating HTK scripts to {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah , I don't know . There are {disfmarker} they have {disfmarker} there is no {disfmarker} I don't know if they are converging on HTK or are using some Mississippi State ,\nProfessor C: Mis - Mississippi State maybe ,\nPhD A: yeah . I 'm not sure about that .\nProfessor C: yeah . Yeah , so that 'll be a little {disfmarker} little task in itself .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , well we 've {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's true for the additive noise , y artificially added noise we 've always used small vocabulary too . But for n there 's been noisy speech this larv large vocabulary that we 've worked with in Broadcast News . So we we did the Broadcast News evaluation\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and some of the focus conditions were noisy and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It had additive n\n",
      "Professor C: But we {disfmarker} but we didn't do spectral subtraction . We were doing our funny stuff , right ? We were doing multi multi uh , multi - stream and {disfmarker} and so forth .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: But it , you know , we di stuff we did helped . I mean it , did something .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor C: So . Um , now we have this um , meeting data . You know , like the stuff we 're {comment} recording right now ,\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: and {disfmarker} and uh , that we have uh , for the {disfmarker} uh , the quote - unquote noisy data there is just {disfmarker} noisy and reverberant actually . It 's the far field mike . And uh , we have uh , the digits that we do at the end of these things . And that 's what most o again , most of our work has been done with that , with {disfmarker} with uh , connected digits .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , but uh , we have recognition now with some of the continuous speech , large vocabulary continuous speech , using Switchboard {disfmarker} uh , Switchboard recognizer ,\nPhD A: Yeah . OK .\nProfessor C: uh , no training , {vocalsound} from this , just {disfmarker} just plain using the Switchboard .\nPhD A: Oh . You just take the Switchboard trained {disfmarker} ? Yeah ,\nProfessor C: That 's {disfmarker} that 's what we 're doing ,\nPhD A: yeah .\nProfessor C: yeah . Now there are some adaptation though ,\n",
      "PhD A: OK . Yeah . That 's cool .\nProfessor C: that {disfmarker} that uh , Andreas has been playing with ,\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor C: but we 're hop uh , actually uh , Dave and I were just talking earlier today about maybe at some point not that distant future , trying some of the techniques that we 've talked about on , uh , some of the large vocabulary data . Um , I mean , I guess no one had done {disfmarker} yet done test one on the distant mike using uh , the SRI recognizer and , uh ,\n",
      "PhD F: I don't {disfmarker} not that I know of .\nProfessor C: Yeah , cuz everybody 's scared .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: You 'll see a little smoke coming up from the {disfmarker} the CPU or something {vocalsound} trying to {disfmarker} trying to do it ,\nPhD F: That 's right\n",
      "Professor C: but uh , yeah . But , you 're right that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's a real good point , that uh , we {disfmarker} we don't know yeah , uh , I mean , what if any of these ta I guess that 's why they 're pushing that in the uh {disfmarker} in the evaluation .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh , But um , Good . OK . Anything else going on ? at you guys ' end ,\nPhD B: I don't have good result , with the {disfmarker} inc including the new parameters ,\n",
      "Professor C: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: I don't have good result . Are {pause} similar or a little bit worse .\nPhD A: With what {disfmarker} what other new p new parameter ?\nGrad G: You 're talking about your voicing ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So maybe {disfmarker} You probably need to back up a bit\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: seeing as how Sunil ,\nPhD B: I tried to include another new parameter to the traditional parameter ,\nProfessor C: yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: the coe the cepstrum coefficient ,\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: that , like , the auto - correlation , the R - zero and R - one over R - zero\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and another estimation of the var the variance of the difference for {disfmarker} of the spec si uh , spectrum of the signal and {disfmarker} and the spectrum of time after filt mel filter bank .\nPhD A: I 'm so sorry . I didn't get it .\n",
      "PhD B: Nuh . Well . Anyway . The {disfmarker} First you have the sp the spectrum of the signal ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and you have the {disfmarker} on the other side you have the output of the mel filter bank .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: You can extend the coefficient of the mel filter bank and obtain an approximation of the spectrum of the signal .\nPhD A: Mmm . OK .\nPhD B: I do the difference {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: I found a difference at the variance of this different\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: because , suppose we {disfmarker} we think that if the variance is high , maybe you have n uh , noise .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: And if the variance is small , maybe you have uh , speech .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: To {disfmarker} to To {disfmarker} The idea is to found another feature for discriminate between voice sound and unvoice sound .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: And we try to use this new feature {disfmarker} feature . And I did experiment {disfmarker} I need to change {disfmarker} to obtain this new feature I need to change the size {disfmarker} the window size {disfmarker} size . of the a of the {disfmarker} analysis window size , to have more information .\nPhD A: Yeah . Make it longer .\nPhD B: Uh , sixty - two point five milliseconds I think .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: And I do {disfmarker} I did two type of experiment to include this feature directly with the {disfmarker} with the other feature and to train a neural network to select it voice - unvoice - silence {disfmarker} silence\nPhD A: Unvoiced . Well .\nPhD B: and to {disfmarker} to concat this new feature . But the result are n with the neural network I have more or less the same result .\nPhD A: As using just the cepstrum ,\nPhD B: Result .\nPhD A: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: OK .\nPhD B: Yeah . It 's neve e e sometime it 's worse , sometime it 's a little bit better , but not significantly .\nPhD A: Uh , is it with TI - digits , or with {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: And {disfmarker} No , I work with eh , Italian and Spanish basically .\nPhD A: OK . OK .\nPhD B: And if I don't y use the neural network , and use directly the feature the results are worse .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: But Doesn't help .\n",
      "Professor C: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I really wonder though .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: I mean we 've had these discussions before , and {disfmarker} and one of the things that struck me was that {disfmarker} uh , about this line of thought that was particularly interesting to me was that we um {disfmarker} whenever you condense things , uh , in an irreversible way , um , you throw away some information . And , that 's mostly viewed on as a good thing , in the way we use it , because we wanna suppress things that will cause variability for uh particular , uh , phonetic units . Um , but , you 'll do throw something away . And so the question is , uh , can we figure out if there 's something we 've thrown away that we shouldn't have . And um . So , when they were looking at the difference between the filter bank and the FFT that was going into the filter bank , I was thinking \" oh , OK , so they 're picking on something they 're looking on it to figure out noise , or voice {disfmarker} voiced property whatever . \" So that {disfmarker} that 's interesting . Maybe that helps to drive the {disfmarker} the thought process of coming up with the features . But for me sort of the interesting thing was , \" well , but is there just something in that difference which is useful ? \" So another way of doing it , maybe , would be just to take the FFT uh , power spectrum , and feed it into a neural network ,\n",
      "PhD B: To know {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: and then use it , you know , in combination , or alone , or {disfmarker} or whatever\nPhD F: Wi - with what targets ?\nPhD A: Voiced , unvoiced is like {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Uh , no .\nPhD A: Oh . Or anything .\nProfessor C: No the {disfmarker} just the same {disfmarker} same way we 're using {disfmarker} I mean , the same way that we 're using the filter bank .\nPhD F: Phones .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor C: Exact way {disfmarker} the same way we 're using the filter bank .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: I mean , the filter bank is good for all the reasons that we say it 's good . But it 's different . And , you know , maybe if it 's used in combination , it will get at something that we 're missing . And maybe , you know , using , orth you know , KLT , or uh , um , adding probabilities , I mean , all th all the different ways that we 've been playing with , that we would let the {disfmarker} essentially let the neural network determine what is it that 's useful , that we 're missing here .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , but there is so much variability in the power spectrum .\nProfessor C: Well , that 's probably why y i it would be unlikely to work as well by itself , but it might help in combination .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor C: But I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I have to tell you , I can't remember the conference , but , uh , I think it 's about ten years ago , I remember going to one of the speech conferences and {disfmarker} and uh , I saw within very short distance of one another a couple different posters that showed about the wonders of some auditory inspired front - end or something , and a couple posters away it was somebody who compared one to uh , just putting in the FFT and the FFT did slightly better . So I mean the {disfmarker} i i It 's true there 's lots of variability ,\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: but again we have these wonderful statistical mechanisms for quantifying that a that variability , and you know , doing something reasonable with it .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: So , um , uh , It - it 's same , you know , argument that 's gone both ways about uh , you know , we have these data driven filters , in LDA , and on the other hand , if it 's data driven it means it 's driven by things that have lots of variability , and that are necessarily {disfmarker} not necessarily gonna be the same in training and test , so , in some ways it 's good to have data driven things , and in some ways it 's bad to have data driven things . So ,\nPhD A: Yeah , d\n",
      "Professor C: part of what we 're discovering , is ways to combine things that are data driven than are not .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh , so anyway , it 's just a thought , that {disfmarker} that if we {disfmarker} if we had that {disfmarker} maybe it 's just a baseline uh , which would show us \" well , what are we really getting out of the filters \" , or maybe i i probably not by itself , but in combination , uh ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: you know , maybe there 's something to be gained from it , and let the {disfmarker} But , you know , y you 've only worked with us for a short time , maybe in a year or two you w you will actually come up with the right set of things to extract from this information . But , maybe the neural net and the H M Ms could figure it out quicker than you .\nPhD B: Maybe .\nProfessor C: So .\nPhD B: Yeah ,\nProfessor C: It 's just a thought .\nPhD B: I can {disfmarker} I will try to do that .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: What {disfmarker} one {disfmarker} one um p one thing is like what {disfmarker} before we started using this VAD in this Aurora , the {disfmarker} th what we did was like , I {disfmarker} I guess most of you know about this , adding this additional speech - silence bit to the cepstrum and training the HMM on that .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: That is just a binary feature and that seems to be {vocalsound} improving a lot on the SpeechDat - Car where there is a lot of noise but not much on the TI - digits . So , a adding an additional feature to distin to discriminate between speech and nonspeech was helping . That 's it .\nPhD D: Wait {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry ?\nPhD A: Yeah , we actually added an additional binary feature to the cepstrum , just the baseline .\nPhD D: Yeah ?\nPhD B: You did some experiment .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , yeah . Well , in {disfmarker} in the case of TI - digits it didn't actually give us anything , because there wasn't any f anything to discriminate between speech ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: and it was very short . But Italian was like very {disfmarker} it was a huge improvement on Italian .\nPhD D: Hmm . Well {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . But anyway the question is even more , is within speech , can we get some features ? Are we drop dropping information that can might be useful within speech ,\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean . To {disfmarker} maybe to distinguish between voice sound and unvoiced sounds ?\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Yeah , yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: And it 's particularly more relevant now since we 're gonna be given the endpoints .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh . So .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor C: Um .\n",
      "PhD A: There was a paper in ICASSP {disfmarker} this ICASSP {disfmarker} over the uh extracting some higher - order uh , information from the cepstral coefficients and I forgot the name . Some is some harmonics I don't know , I can {disfmarker} I can pull that paper out from ICASSP . It {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Talking cumulants or something ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Huh ? Uh , I don't know .\nProfessor C: Cumulants or something .\nPhD A: I don't remember .\n",
      "Professor C: But {disfmarker} No .\nPhD A: It wa it was taking the , um {disfmarker} It was about finding the higher - order moments of {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah ,\nPhD A: And I 'm not sure about whether it is the higher - order moments , or {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: cumulants , yeah .\nPhD A: maybe higher - order cumulants\nProfessor C: Oh .\nPhD A: and {disfmarker} Yeah . It was {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Or m e\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . I mean , he was showing up uh some {disfmarker} something on noisy speech ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: some improvement on the noisy speech .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Some small vocabulary tasks .\nProfessor C: Uh .\nPhD A: So it was on PLP derived cepstral coefficients .\nProfessor C: Yeah , but again {disfmarker} You could argue that th that 's exactly what the neural network does .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor C: So n neural network uh , is in some sense equivalent to computing , you know , higher - order moments of what you {disfmarker}\nPhD A: trying to f to Moments , yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: yeah . So . I mean , it doesn't do it very specifically ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and pretty {disfmarker} you know . But .\nPhD A: Yep .\nProfessor C: Uh , anything on your end you want to talk about ? Uh .\n",
      "Grad G: Um , nothing I wanna really talk about . I can {disfmarker} I can just uh , um , share a little bit {disfmarker} Sunil hasn't {disfmarker} hasn't heard about uh , what I 've been doing .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Um , so , um , I told you I was {disfmarker} I was {disfmarker} I was getting prepared to take this qualifier exam . So basically that 's just , um , trying to propose um , uh , your next your {disfmarker} your following years of {disfmarker} of your PHD work , trying {disfmarker} trying to find a project to {disfmarker} to define and {disfmarker} and to work on . So , I 've been , uh , looking into , um , doing something about r uh , speech recognition using acoustic events . So , um , the idea is you have all these {disfmarker} these different events , for example voicing , nasality , R - coloring , you know burst or noise , uh , frication , that kinda stuff , um , building robust um , primary detectors for these acoustic events , and using the outputs of these robust detectors to do speech recognition . Um , and , um , these {disfmarker} these primary detectors , um , will be , uh , inspired by , you know , multi - band techniques , um , doing things , um , similar to Larry Saul 's work on , uh , graphical models to {disfmarker} to detect these {disfmarker} these , uh , acoustic events . And , um , so I {disfmarker} I been {disfmarker} I been thinking about that and some of the issues that I 've been running into are , um , exactly what {disfmarker} what kind of acoustic events I need , what {disfmarker} um , what acoustic events will provide a {disfmarker} a good enough coverage to {disfmarker} in order to do the later recognition steps . And , also , um , once I decide a set of acoustic events , um , h how do I {disfmarker} how do I get labels ? Training data for {disfmarker} for these acoustic events . And , then later on down the line , I can start playing with the {disfmarker} the models themselves , the {disfmarker} the primary detectors . Um , so , um , I kinda see {disfmarker} like , after {disfmarker} after building the primary detectors I see um , myself taking the outputs and feeding them in , sorta tandem style into {disfmarker} into a um , Gaussian mixtures HMM back - end , um , and doing recognition . Um . So , that 's {disfmarker} that 's just generally what I 've been looking at .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nGrad G: Um ,\nProfessor C: By {disfmarker} by the way , uh , the voiced - unvoiced version of that for instance could tie right in to what Carmen was looking at .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: you know , um , if you {disfmarker} if a multi - band approach was helpful as {disfmarker} as I think it is , it seems to be helpful for determining voiced - unvoiced ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: that one might be another thing .\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Yeah . Yeah . Um , were {disfmarker} were you gonna say something ?\nPhD F: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad G: Oh . It looked {disfmarker} OK , never mind . Um , yeah . And so , this {disfmarker} this past week um , I 've been uh , looking a little bit into uh , TRAPS um , and doing {disfmarker} doing TRAPS on {disfmarker} on these e events too , just , um , seeing {disfmarker} seeing if that 's possible . Uh , and um , other than that , uh , I was kicked out of I - house for living there for four years .\nProfessor C: Oh no . So you live in a cardboard box in the street now\nGrad G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: or , no ?\nGrad G: Uh , well , s s som something like that .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad G: In Albany , yeah . Yeah . And uh . Yep . That 's it .\nProfessor C: Suni - i d ' you v did uh {disfmarker} did you find a place ?\nPhD A: Uh , no\nProfessor C: Is that out of the way ?\n",
      "PhD A: not yet . Uh , yesterday I called up a lady who ha who will have a vacant room from May thirtieth and she said she 's interviewing two more people . So . And she would get back to me on Monday . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's only thing I have and Diane has a few more houses . She 's going to take some pictures and send me after I go back . So it 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: OK .\nPhD F: Oh . So you 're not down here permanently yet ?\n",
      "PhD A: No . I 'm going back to OGI today .\nPhD F: Ah ! Oh , OK .\nGrad G: Oh .\nProfessor C: OK . And then , you 're coming back uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh , i I mean , I {disfmarker} I p I plan to be here on thirty - first .\nProfessor C: Thirty - first ,\nPhD A: Yeah , well if there 's a house available or place to {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad G: Thirty - first .\nProfessor C: Well , I mean i i if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , I hope .\nProfessor C: They 're available , and they 'll be able to get you something , so worst comes to worst we 'll put you up in a hotel for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for a while\nPhD A: Yeah . So , in that case , I 'm going to be here on thirty - first definitely .\nProfessor C: until you {disfmarker} OK .\nGrad E: You know , if you 're in a desperate situation and you need a place to stay , you could stay with me for a while . I 've got a spare bedroom right now .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh . OK . Thanks . That sure is nice of you . So , it may be he needs more than me .\nGrad G: Oh r oh . Oh no , no . My {disfmarker} my cardboard box is actually a nice spacious two bedroom apartment .\nProfessor C: So a two bedroom cardboard box . Th - that 's great .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nProfessor C: Thanks Dave .\nGrad G: yeah\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Um ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: Do y wanna say anything about {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you actually been {disfmarker} Uh , last week you were doing this stuff with Pierre , you were {disfmarker} you were mentioning . Is that {disfmarker} that something worth talking about , or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad E: Um , it 's {disfmarker} Well , um , it {disfmarker} I don't think it directly relates . Um , well , so , I was helping a speech researcher named Pierre Divenyi and he 's int He wanted to um , look at um , how people respond to formant changes , I think . Um . So he {disfmarker} he created a lot of synthetic audio files of vowel - to - vowel transitions , and then he wanted a psycho - acoustic um , spectrum . And he wanted to look at um , how the energy is moving {pause} over time in that spectrum and compare that to the {disfmarker} to the listener tests . And , um . So , I gave him a PLP spectrum . And {disfmarker} to um {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he t wanted to track the peaks so he could look at how they 're moving . So I took the um , PLP LPC coefficients and um , I found the roots . This was something that Stephane suggested . I found the roots of the um , LPC polynomial to , um , track the peaks in the , um , PLP LPC spectra .\n",
      "PhD A: well there is aligned spectral pairs , is like the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} Is that the aligned s\nProfessor C: It 's a r root LPC , uh , of some sort .\nPhD A: Oh , no .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So you just {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: instead of the log you took the root square , I mean cubic root or something . What di w I didn't get that .\n",
      "Professor C: No , no . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's taking the {disfmarker} finding the roots of the LPC polynomial .\nPhD A: Polynomial . Yeah . Is that the line spectral {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: So it 's like line spectral pairs .\nPhD A: Oh , it 's like line sp\nProfessor C: Except I think what they call line spectral pairs they push it towards the unit circle , don't they ,\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: to sort of ? But it {disfmarker} But uh , you know . But what we 'd used to do w when I did synthesis at National Semiconductor twenty years ago , the technique we were playing with initially was {disfmarker} was taking the LPC polynomial and {disfmarker} and uh , finding the roots . It wasn't PLP cuz Hynek hadn't invented it yet , but it was just LPC , and uh , we found the roots of the polynomial , And th When you do that , sometimes they 're f they 're what most people call formants , sometimes they 're not .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor C: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little ,\nPhD D: Hmm .\nProfessor C: uh {disfmarker} Formant tracking with it can be a little tricky cuz you get these funny {vocalsound} values in {disfmarker} in real speech ,\nPhD F: So you just {disfmarker} You typically just get a few roots ?\nProfessor C: but .\nPhD F: You know , two or three ,\nProfessor C: Well you get these complex pairs .\nPhD F: something like that ?\n",
      "Professor C: And it depends on the order that you 're doing , but .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Right . So , um , if {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} Every root that 's {disfmarker} Since it 's a real signal , the LPC polynomial 's gonna have real coefficients . So I think that means that every root that is not a real root {comment} is gonna be a c complex pair ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: um , of a complex value and its conjugate . Um . So for each {disfmarker} And if you look at that on the unit circle , um , one of these {disfmarker} one of the members of the pair will be a positive frequency , one will be a negative frequency , I think . So I just {disfmarker} So , um , f for the {disfmarker} I 'm using an eighth - order polynomial and I 'll get three or four of these pairs\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nGrad E: which give me s which gives me three or four peak positions .\n",
      "Professor C: This is from synthetic speech , or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad E: It 's {disfmarker} Right . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah . So if it 's from synthetic speech then maybe it 'll be cleaner . I mean for real speech in real {disfmarker} then what you end up having is , like I say , funny little things that are {disfmarker} don't exactly fit your notion of formants all that well .\nPhD F: How did {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: But {disfmarker} but mostly they are .\nPhD D: But\nProfessor C: Mostly they do .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: Mmm ,\nProfessor C: And {disfmarker} and what {disfmarker} I mean in {disfmarker} in what we were doing , which was not so much looking at things , it was OK\nPhD D: I {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: because it was just a question of quantization . Uh , we were just you know , storing {disfmarker} It was {disfmarker} We were doing , uh , stored speech , uh , quantization .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: But {disfmarker} but uh , in your case um , you know {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Actually you have peaks that are not at the formant 's positions , but they are lower in energy\nGrad E: But {disfmarker} there 's some of that , yes .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker} Well they are much lower .\nPhD F: If this is synthetic speech can't you just get the formants directly ? I mean h how is the speech created ?\nGrad E: It was created from a synthesizer , and um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Wasn't a formant synthesizer was it ?\nProfessor C: I bet it {disfmarker} it might have {disfmarker} may have been\nGrad E: I {disfmarker} d d this {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: but maybe he didn't have control over it or something ?\n",
      "Grad E: In {disfmarker} in fact w we {disfmarker} we could get , um , formant frequencies out of the synthesizer , as well . And , um , w one thing that the , um , LPC approach will hopefully give me in addition , um , is that I {disfmarker} I might be able to find the b the bandwidths of these humps as well . Um , Stephane suggested looking at each complex pair as a {disfmarker} like a se second - order IIR filter .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Um , but I don't think there 's a g a really good reason not to um , get the formant frequencies from the synthesizer instead . Except that you don't have the psycho - acoustic modeling in that .\nProfessor C: Yeah , so the actual {disfmarker} So you 're not getting the actual formants per se . You 're getting the {disfmarker} Again , you 're getting sort of the , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: You 're getting something that is {disfmarker} is uh , af strongly affected by the PLP model . And so it 's more psycho - acoustic . So it 's a little {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} It 's sort of {disfmarker} sort of a different thing .\nPhD F: Oh , I see . That 's sort of the point .\nProfessor C: But {disfmarker} Yeah . i Ordinarily , in a formant synthesizer , the bandwidths as well as the ban uh , formant centers are {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: I mean , that 's {disfmarker} Somewhere in the synthesizer that was put in , as {disfmarker} as what you {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: But {disfmarker} but yeah , you view each complex pair as essentially a second - order section , which has , uh , band center and band width , and um , um {disfmarker} But . Yeah . O K . So , uh , yeah , you 're going back today and then back in a week I guess ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 19718,
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  },
  {
    "id": 61,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "It was a heated debate between the opposition party and the ministers. The members from the opposition parties first pointed out some flaws in the government's current measures in hoping to better implement them. However, some of their suggestions were either not adopted or avoided. The opposition party also addressed their concerns towards fiscal pressure, employment market and production of personal protective equipment in the midst of the pandemic. The ministers listed a roll of policies that was either already in place or going to be. Finally, the opposition party named a few industries in Canada such as agriculture, tourism and fishing that were struck seriously by the pandemic. The ministers promised that more financial support was coming in order to engineer Canada's economy.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 14thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using their earpiece at their desk. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We'll now proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are none. Now we'll proceed to the tabling of documents. Mr.LeBlanc has a document he wants to table. Go ahead, Mr.LeBlanc.\n",
      "Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: Mr. Chair, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, a report entitled \"Democracy Matters, Debates Count: A report on the 2019 Leaders' Debates Commission and the future of debates in Canada. Mr. Chair, on behalf of all of us, I want to thank the Right Honourable David Johnston for his continued service.\n",
      "The Chair: Good. We'll now proceed to the presenting of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that you please come to the front and drop off your certificate at the table once the petition has been presented. In presenting petitions, the first presenter today is Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting a petition in support of Bill S-204. This is a bill in the Senate, put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan. It would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent by the donor. It also creates a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. This bill is designed to confront and address the horrific practice by which, in certain casesfor instance, inside Chinaminority communities or dissidents may be targeted and have their organs removed as they're killed and used for transplantation. Petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204, and they want to see it passed as soon as possible.\n",
      "The Chair: Our next petition will go to Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen (Peace RiverWestlock, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am presenting a petition today signed by Canadians who are concerned that Bill C-7 removes safeguards from the current euthanasia regime, including the mandatory 10-day waiting period. Mr. Chair, these people who are signing this petition would like to see an improvement in assisted living, not assisted dying.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Zahid.\n",
      "Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present an e-petition signed by over 40 people. It asks that the Government of Canada recognize the Republic of Somaliland as an autonomous state that may result in foreign investments, direct access of development aid, foreign aid for disaster relief and infrastructure development investment loans.\nThe Chair: Now we'll proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. Each statement will be for a maximum of one minute. I remind members that if they exceed that time limit, they will be interrupted.  Our first statement goes to Monsieur El-Khoury.\n",
      "Mr. Fayal El-Khoury (LavalLes les, Lib.): Mr.Chair, I thank the government for the way it has managed this global crisis and its impact on Canadians. It has acted in a robust, rapid and very effective way. Our Prime Minister has been awarded the medal of honour, courage and humanity worldwide. Canada is one of the few countries that has acted in the best interests of its citizens and maintained their dignity in these uncertain times. While addressing Canadians, our right honourable Prime Minister showed us leadership, the importance of transparency, and integrity. He kept us united. His top priority was saving lives, along with finding realistic solutions regarding the economic impact on our daily life. Because of his outstanding leadership, we're admired across the world, which is another distinguished privilege of being Canadian. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Epp.\n",
      "Mr. Dave Epp (Chatham-KentLeamington, CPC): COVID-19 has emptied food banks across Canada, even in an agricultural community like Chatham-Kent, so Wes Thompson and James Rasmussen, along with Alysson Storey, Randi Bokor, Maureen Geddes, Chris and Terry Johnston, Jason King, Fannie Vavoulis and Brent Wilken, grew an idea into the community's largest-ever food drive. Project manager Morna McDonald estimates that over 3,000 volunteers ended up helping in the May 16 Miracle. Residents put non-perishable foodstuffs on their doorsteps, with drop-off centres organized for rural areas. Volunteer groups travelled predetermined routes while maintaining physical distancing. The community collected an amazing 678,000 pounds of food. They accidentally exceeded by over 20% the record in the Guinness World Records book for collected food in a single day. Chatham-Kent has restocked their food banks and reaffirmed their community pride. It's an honour to represent such a community.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Sarai. We have a point of order from Mr. d'Entremont.\nMr. Chris d'Entremont (West Nova, CPC): As much as I like seeing my friends on the big screens, there are no big screens yet, so we don't know who's on and who's not on. I was wondering if there was going to be a TV coming up soon here, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: There is a technical issue, and it is being worked on. We're working on it as we go through. The other alternative is that we suspend until we fix it. If it's okay, we'll just continue. I think we can all hear the members who are speaking. This is one of the realities of a virtual or hybrid system. Our next statement will go to Mr. Sarai.\n",
      "Mr. Randeep Sarai (Surrey Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and mabuhay to all the Filipino Canadians across this country. In June across Canada we recognize Filipino Heritage Month to raise awareness and celebrate the Filipino community. Here in Surrey Centre, and across Canada, the Filipino community makes important contributions to our cities and has helped shape Canada into the vibrant multicultural society that we all know and love today. Now more than ever, during these challenging times we must come together as Canadians to celebrate the rich heritage and history of our Filipino neighbours. Throughout June, please join me in celebrating our fellow citizens of Filipino descent by recognizing all the incredible ways in which they have contributed to making Canada a better place for all of us. Happy Filipino Heritage Month. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Perron.\n",
      "Mr. Yves Perron (BerthierMaskinong, BQ): Good afternoon, Mr.Chair. Today is World Milk Day, and I would like to recognize the exceptional work and dedication shown by everyone in the industry. They ensure we have a nutritious, high quality product every day. Let's take part in the local consumption movement and rediscover the exceptional products of our dairy producers and processors. Enjoy the yogurts, cheeses and other products because it's true that milk is good. I would also like to thank BrunoLetendre, outgoing chair of the Producteurs de lait du Qubec, and I congratulate the new chair, DanielGobeil. The dairy industry has been sacrificed several times in trade agreements. The government's broken promises are piling up. The payment of compensation is still uncertain. Action must be taken. The first step must be the direct allocation of import quotas to processors, and the second must be the full payment of the promised compensation. We demand a formal commitment from the government.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr.Iacono.\n",
      "Mr. Angelo Iacono (Alfred-Pellan, Lib.): Mr.Chair, June is Italian Heritage Month. The situation is special this year, since Italy has been hard hit by COVID-19, with more than 30,000deaths. Like me, many Italian Canadians still have family and friends in Italy, and the news has sometimes been very difficult to take, yet that has not detracted from the great co-operation that exists between Canada and Italy.  Today I would like to highlight the solidariet italiana in our community. During the pandemic, Canadians of Italian descent have been united to support anziani, our famiglie and our amici in Italy by participating in the fundraising campaign COVID-19 AiutiAMO lItalia to support the Italian Red Cross response activities. I send a special salute to to my cugino Giuseppe, who is still on the road to recovery from COVID-19. \n",
      "The Chair: We'll continue with Mr. Kram.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Kram (ReginaWascana, CPC): Mr. Chair, I would like to acknowledge all of the organizations in Saskatchewan and across Canada that are working hard to help small businesses adapt to the challenges of the current pandemic. In particular, I would like to thank the Regina Downtown Business Improvement District, or RDBID. As soon as the pandemic hit, RDBID launched a daily electronic newsletter to keep their members informed of support programs, local initiatives and local success stories. They have used their social media channels on a daily basis to promote takeout and delivery services, online and curbside services offered by restaurants and retailers. They have also launched a number of their own initiatives to help businesses access e-commerce. Through persistent communication and a lot of long hours, RDBID has helped businesses in downtown Regina to weather the storm. Because of their hard work, downtown Regina will come through this pandemic better than ever.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Lauzon now has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Stphane Lauzon (ArgenteuilLa Petite-Nation, Lib.): Mr.Chair, high-speed Internet will be to the 21stcentury what electricity was to the 20th: an essential service. We are currently experiencing a drastic change in our morals, our consumption patterns and our socialization habits. We are turning to the Internet to read the news, contact our friends and complete our purchases. Isolation associated with COVID-19 has only accelerated this trend. Unfortunately, not all regions of Canada have reliable, affordable, high-speed access. I would like to reassure the citizens of my riding about the efforts that we are making as a government, but also about the work I've been doing as a member of Parliament since2015 to connect the 41municipalities of ArgenteuilLa Petite-Nation. Aside from this essential service, our students, seniors, entrepreneurs and telework are very important to the regions. We have heard you, and I will continue to fight for you, so that you can have access to affordable high-speed Internet.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. MacKinnon.\n",
      "Mr. Steven MacKinnon (Gatineau, Lib.): Mr. Chair, a few days ago, we all watched with horror and outrage the death of an unarmed black man at the hands of the police in Minneapolis. For many of us, these images may seem shocking, but it's an all too familiar tale to millions of black people not only in the United States but also here in Canada, in my city of Gatineau and around the world, who must at times live with the scourge of anti-black racism.  Mr.Chair, I can't know what it's like to be black in our society. What I do know, however, is that you and I, and everyone in this House, have the power and the responsibility to make our country more just. Let us all recommit ourselves to that endeavour. Black Canadians and all those who have to endure racism and discrimination are watching us, and they expect more from us.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Duncan is next.\n",
      "Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC): Without a doubt, these past few months have been challenging, to say the least, from both a health and economic perspective, but, Mr. Chair, I have to say how proud I am of my community of StormontDundasSouth Glengarry. We continue to successfully flatten the curve in our region and, just as importantly, we are making sure that we are here for each other, whether it is the Cornwall Optimists' GoFeedMe campaign, the Iroquois-Matilda Lions Club delivering groceries to those who are quarantined in their households or the local United Way, the Social Development Council or the Carefor seniors support centre co-leading an effort to deliver 1,500 baskets to seniors in need. There have been many examples of kindness and generosity from our community. I rise today in the House of Commons to say thank you to my constituents and to all Canadians; to our essential front-line workers, our service clubs and our businesses that have stepped up to help out; and to everybody playing their part to get us through this challenge. I couldn't be more proud of my community and my residents, and it is an honour to serve as their member of Parliament. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Yip.\n",
      "Ms. Jean Yip (ScarboroughAgincourt, Lib.): Mr. Chair, although Asian Heritage Month has just passed, we recognize the tremendous effort of all Asian Canadians on the front lines of this pandemic, as health care providers or as essential workers. I want to thank the many Asian organizations for donating to ScarboroughAgincourt's hospital, long-term care homes and food banks. As a Canadian born and raised in Scarborough, I'm offended by the reports of violence and vandalism targeting Asian-Canadian communities across this country. In budget 2019 we invested $45 million to launch a new anti-racism strategy, which included the establishment of the anti-racism secretariat, because these efforts are unfortunately clearly still needed. As events continue to unfold in the United States, it is important to recognize that we have work to do here as well. Whether it is anti-black or anti-Asian, racism and discrimination of any kind have no place in Canadafull stop. Now more than ever, we must stand united in diversity.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Bragdon.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon (TobiqueMactaquac, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Over the last few months, Canadians throughout New Brunswick and across the country have stepped up to support their community. Health care workers, truckers, farmers, business owners, pharmacists, grocery store staff, faith-based and non-profit organizations and so many others have all answered the call to do their part. Today, Mr. Chair, I would like to specifically highlight the work of those who support and take care of our seniors, who are among some of our most at-risk citizens. It has been said that the character of a nation and its people is revealed most in how they treat their most vulnerable. Our seniors have made immense contributions to our society. Many have put their lives on the line to protect Canada and the democratic freedoms we enjoy as Canadians. They have worked hard and made many sacrifices throughout their lives to make Canada the greatest nation on earth. Taking care of our seniors is the right thing to do. I want to take this opportunity to thank all those who are supporting and caring for our seniors. Whether they be long-term care staff, personal care workers, health care professionals, family members or volunteers, thank you for all you are doing in support of our seniors. Together we shall overcome.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Shin.\n",
      "Ms. Nelly Shin (Port MoodyCoquitlam, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Although we've come to the end of Asian Heritage Month, I'd like to acknowledge some unsung Chinese Canadian heroes who shed their blood as patriots for our nation. I commemorate the 6,500 Chinese Canadians of the 9,000 railway workers who helped build and unite Canada. I pay respect to the many Chinese Canadians who died while building the CP Railway on the most dangerous terrains in the B.C. segment. I honour the Chinese Canadians who served and died in World War II. Sadly, Asian communities in Canada face racist incidents today. No one should be afraid of walking in their own neighbourhood. Adult children should not have to call their elderly parents to tell them to stay home because they might be attacked by racists. There's no justification for racial slurs, physical violence or vandalism against any individual or community. I will continue to work together with other elected officials, the police and the RCMP to mitigate these issues toward justice and restoration.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Angus. Mr. Angus, please proceed.\n",
      "Mr. Charlie Angus (TimminsJames Bay, NDP): Ten years ago today, Cree youth leader Shannen Koostachin was killed in a horrific car accident. She was only 15 years old, yet in her short life she became the voice of a generation of first nation youth who were no longer willing to put up with systemic discrimination. Shannen had never seen a real school. Children in Attawapiskat were being educated in squalid conditions. Her fight for their dignity and rights launched the largest youth-driven civil rights movement in Canadian history. At 14 she was nominated for the International Children's Peace Prize. Shannen never lived to see the school that was built in her community, but her work carries on through the Shannen's Dream movement. She is a role model for youth activists across this country. A movie, two books and a statue are dedicated to her. She's been recognized as one of the 150 most influential women in Canadian history. I had the honour to know Shannen. In fact, I think of her every single day. She truly did come from the angels, and one day she returned.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval (Pierre-BoucherLes PatriotesVerchres, BQ): Mr.Chair, for months now, thousands of consumers who need money to pay their bills have been fighting against airlines and the government to have their rights respected: three class action suits, a unanimous motion by the National Assembly and over 30,000signatures on a petition calling for reimbursement for cancelled flights. It isn't a whim to enforce the law. Air Canada, which confiscated $2.6billion from its customers, received more than $800million from Ottawa without any conditions. Yet, the company has a year's worth of cash in reserve, $6billion in its coffers, and is in the process of raising more than $1.4billion in the financial markets. Air Canada has the means to reimburse citizens. It has the money it needs. We're tired of the Minister of Transport's crocodile tears. I consulted the bankruptcy directory this morning and didn't see any airlines listed. Now is the time to work for the people.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Rayes now has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes (RichmondArthabaska, CPC): Mr.Chair, I want to pay tribute to a great man who represented the public here, in the House, for close to 15years: MichelGauthier. Michel, in life, we meet a lot of people, but some of them leave their mark on us forever. From the first time I spoke with you two years ago, I immediately understood that I was talking with a man with heart, a passionate man, a man who had Quebec imprinted on his heart. Because of your decision to join the Conservative Party of Canada, I got to know you personally, and I am most grateful. I will remember our discussions on the best ways to communicate our Conservative vision to Quebeckers. I will remember our heated discussions on Quebec-Canada relations. I will remember all the passion and energy you had in the lead-up to a speech to our supporters. Michel, Canadians, Quebeckers and I will remember you forever, the great man you were, the outstanding speaker, a formidable parliamentarian, with integrity, passion, commitment and love for Quebec. I offer my sincere condolences to Anne, and to your family and friends. Rest in peace.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Dubourg, you now have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Emmanuel Dubourg (Bourassa, Lib.): Mr.Chair, the murder of GeorgeFloyd in Minneapolis resonated strongly within black communities in Canada and also in the heart of Montreal North. At a time of pandemic uncertainty when members of our community find themselves on the front lines as essential workers, an event like this rekindles feelings of fear, powerlessness and injustice. It has happened once again in the UnitedStates, but we are not immune to such behaviour here, in Canada. Dear constituents of Bourassa, I know our stories, I feel with you the pain as a parent and as a black person. I know this constant fear for our children. As elected officials, we have the duty to protect your rights and to ensure harmony. We must be vigilant and work to deconstruct prejudice and discrimination.\n",
      "The Chair: Before continuing, I'd like to give a reminder. To avoid sound problems, members participating in person shouldn't connect to the video conference.  There seems to be some interference when you watch the video conference in the chamber and it's being transmitted, so let us make things run more smoothly. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. When the government first starting rolling out programs to help Canadians get through this pandemic, we raised points about some flaws and gaps in the program. The government assured Canadians that it would fix these programs as time went on. Well, Canadians are suffering through both the health and the economic consequences of the lockdown related to the coronavirus. Here we are the first day of June and the government still has yet to address the flaws in its programs; it is still letting so many Canadians down. I have a series of very straightforward and specific questions. On April 20 we raised with the Minister of Finance the issue of companies that had purchased another company not being able to demonstrate revenue loss, and therefore not being eligible for the wage subsidy, even though both companies separately would have been able to do just that. We have raised it several times now. I would like to ask the government when it will be fixing this unnecessarily rigid aspect of the wage subsidy program.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, I believe that a company with a fantastic Canadian history in the member's riding, Brandt Tractor, which pioneered the manufacturing of augers in Canada, is particularly affected by this. It is very important for us that the wage subsidy be available to as many Canadian companies as possible. It helps to keep employees connected to their businesses. Now, there are always some specific issues that can make it challenging for particular companies. I know that in the case of Brandt Tractor, for example, officials from the Ministry of Finance are directly in touch with the company to work on its issues.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, that's the same answer we got last week. It's the same answer we got two weeks before that, and it's the same answer we have been getting from day one. This is a very simple question. The government has indicated that it will change this program to allow for amalgamations. The solution is very simple. It is to also allow for those companies that have undergone acquisitions. This is a very specific question: Will the government fix this program and allow for companies that have acquired another company to still access the wage subsidy program?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me just point out that the wage subsidy program is working extremely well for many, many Canadian companies and for many, many Canadians who are able to keep their jobs thanks to the program. More than two million Canadian workers are today benefiting from the wage subsidy program. By any measure that is a successful program. Now, for sure there are always going to be companies which, because of specifics in their history, need specific attention, and that\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, reports indicate that up to half of the money allocated for the wage subsidy is going unspent, precisely because this government has left in unnecessarily rigid barriers for companies to be able to access it. It's a yes-or-no question, and the minister still can't answer it. Along the same lines, we asked on April 8 to allow businesses applying for the wage subsidy to demonstrate their 30% revenue loss using other metrics, such as loss of earnings, subscriptions and orders, in order to qualify. They still can't do that today, the first day of June. Why hasn't the government addressed this part of the program?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, we are very proud of the wage subsidy program and proud of the role it is playing to keep Canadian businesses going and, crucially, to keep Canadian workers connected to their jobs, but I have a question for the member opposite. Half of the questions we hear from the Conservatives in question period are concerns that we're spending too much money, that the deficit is too high. The other half of the time they complain about specific companies not getting access to our programs. We know which side we're on as a government. I'd like the Conservatives to let Canadians know what they believe in.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Scheer, you may have a short question.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it's quite clear what Conservatives believe in. We believe that when times were good, this government should have paid down debt instead of wasting money like $50 million to Mastercard and $12 million to Loblaws. The fact of the matter is that the government left Canadians in a vulnerable position as we were entering this pandemic precisely because of its fiscal irresponsibility, and now they have designed programs that have unnecessary barriers in them that prevent more and more Canadians from getting the help they need. Again, on April 26, Conservatives asked the Prime Minister to change the criteria for the Canada emergency business account so that small businesses that don't happen to have a business bank account can qualify. Why hasn't the Prime Minister made that change either?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I'm really grateful for that question because it allows me to set the record straight for Canadians. Canadians need to know that our country has the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7. We had that before the crisis began, and we still do. Canada has the fiscal firepower to support Canadians during this unprecedented crisis, and that is what we are going to continue to do.\nThe Chair: Mrs.DeBellefeuille.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ): Mr.Chair, the wage subsidy was put in place to support businesses and SMEs, to avoid closures and bankruptcy. Have I missed something? Is the Liberal Party on the verge of bankruptcy? Is it about to shut down? Does the Prime Minister consider that the Liberal Party is getting ready to close its doors?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member for the question. I want to point out that, as the hon. member said, the wage subsidy was really put in place to protect workers across Canada. We are proud of that. More than 2million Canadians have benefited from this\nThe Chair: Mrs.DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr.Chair, the Liberal Party made $3million between January and March of this year. That's $3million in political donations. We're told that the emergency subsidy is being used to protect the jobs of Liberal Party employees. I'm not an accountant, but I can count. I'm wondering why the Liberal Party doesn't use its own money to pay its own employees instead of using the Canada emergency wage subsidy.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: I thank the hon. member for her question. I would like to point out again that the purpose of the Canada emergency wage subsidy is to support workers across Canada and Quebec, to help them keep their jobs and allow them to stay connected to their workplace. That is what we've done. More than 2million Canadians are benefiting from this important and truly essential program for our country. We are proud of it.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr.Chair, does the Deputy Prime Minister think it is moral, fair and honest that employees who have lost their jobs are subsidizing an emergency wage subsidy for the Liberal Party of Canada out of their taxes?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Our programs do not discriminate. They are there to help all workers. The hon. member talked about businesses and sectors that need more help. We agree. There is still a lot to do, but we want to work with all the\nThe Chair: Mrs.DeBellefeuille.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr.Chair, many struggling businesses in Quebec don't have access to the Canada emergency wage subsidy because they don't meet the eligibility criteria. Many tourism and municipal organizations, among others, don't have access to this wage subsidy. However, it's very clear that the Liberal Party qualifies according to the program criteria. Does the Deputy Prime Minister really think it's moral for her party to benefit from the emergency wage subsidy when it has the financial means to pay its own employees?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: I thank the hon. member for her question. I agree that there is still a lot to do. We are ready, and we are taking action. However, it's important to point out that our government has already done a lot to support Canadians. We've spent $152billion in direct support measures to Canadians. More than eightmillion people are benefiting from the CERB, and more than twomillion\nThe Chair: Mrs.DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: Mr.Chair, what I understand is not really complicated to understand. I understand that the Liberal Party has money, that it has money to pay its employees, but that it doesn't want to cut the booty it has amassed for the next election. It's as if it were telling us that it's indirectly financing itself for the next election. Will the Deputy Prime Minister show some leadership and convince her own party to give up the emergency wage subsidy and even commit to paying back the money it has already received?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I want to point out that our programs do not discriminate. They are there to help all workers across the country, and I want to point out to what extent our programs do that. Eight million people are currently benefiting from the CERB, and two million are supported by the emergency wage subsidy. Our programs are also helping 380,000students and 639,000businesses\nThe Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Canadians and people across the world are reeling after seeing the images of George Floyd being brutally killed in a callous and casual manner. We're struggling with the impacts of anti-black racism. Anti-black racism hasn't just appeared or increased. It's now simply being captured by video. Canada is also no different. Anti-black racism also impacts Canada, and people here are feeling the frustration of black lives being neglected and ignored. Will the government commit to tracking race-based data in terms of COVID-19's impact on communities, particularly black Canadians, and track race-based data so that we can have a better response based on the evidence?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I would like to start by thanking the member opposite for his very important question and the very important work he has done throughout his career in drawing attention to racism in Canada and in fighting against it. Thank you. I agree strongly with the member opposite that we, as Canadians, must be the opposite of complacent. We have to acknowledge that anti-black racism is real in our country, that unconscious bias is real in our country and that systemic discrimination is real. It happens here. We have to commit today to working hard to fight it. I have more to say about disaggregated data and the coronavirus, and I hope I'll have a chance to do that in my next answer.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Thank you for that openness on the part of the government. I want more and clear commitments. We also know that race-based or discriminatory police practices still exist across Canada. Will the government commit to working with provinces to ensure there are no such practices allowed to exist in Canada, particularly related to discriminatory police practices like carding? Will the federal government work and use its powers to end those discriminatory practices where federal regulation applies, and work with the provinces to ensure this happens across the country?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Thank you again for that very important question. First of all, on coronavirus, our government believes that disaggregated data, including when it comes to race, is extremely important. We're working with our provincial partners on that. On policing, racial profiling is unacceptable and unlawful. We will always work to uphold the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and to ensure the human rights of everyone in Canada are protected. At the federal level, RCMP members are guided by bias-free policing based on equality and non-discrimination.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I want to change tracks, Mr. Chair, and talk about long-term care. How many times did the Prime Minister's Office and the Liberal government meet with lobbyists from for-profit long-term care homes from March 25 to April 22, during the worst impacts of COVID-19 in long-term care homes?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, at this moment I can only speak for myself, and I have not met with any such lobbyists during that period or at other times. I share the member opposite's concerns about long-term care facilities in Canada. We have to do better, and we will.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: It was 12 times during the worst impacts of COVID-19. While seniors were dying in long-term care homes, the Prime Minister's Office and the Liberal government met with private, for-profit long-term care home lobbyists 12 times. Why did the Prime Minister's Office and the Liberal government choose to meet with these for-profit long-term care home lobbyists instead of meeting with those to solve the problem? Instead of making excuses about the federal government not playing a role, why didn't the Prime Minister and the Liberal government show leadership in calling for an end to profit in long-term care homes?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Let me very clear about one thing, speaking on behalf of our government and on behalf of the Prime Minister. Our government sees as a matter of utmost concern and utmost urgency what has been happening in long-term care homes in our country, and the reports we have received from the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces about facilities in Ontario and Quebec need to be treated as historic documents that\nThe Chair: Now it's Mr.Rayes's turn. Mr.Rayes, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: Mr.Chair, why is it that employers from industry, businesses and community organizations that have been approved in the Canada summer jobs program still haven't received the money they're entitled to?\nHon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development): We are ensuring that the Canada summer jobs program is strengthened and enforced. We are making it more available to more students. We have lengthened the time period that the program\nThe Chair: Mr.Rayes has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: Every day, the Prime Minister makes announcements in front of his residence. I'll repeat my question. Given the importance of the program for our youth who are looking to work, how is it that the organizations haven't yet received the money they need to hire students? As we know, there have been some problems with the CESB.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Our government is working hard to help employers adapt to the realities of COVID-19. We recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in communities across the country every year. That is why we have introduced flexibilities in the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth while providing more supports to employers.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: The minister can say whatever he wants. Last year, there was no crisis and, as of April, all employers who had been admitted to the program had received the money. We are currently in a crisis. The government is trying to respond quickly to the needs. Right now, community organizations are not receiving the money to which they are entitled to hire students, to put them to work and to give them an employment opportunity. Why?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we have managed to introduce flexibilities to take into consideration the difficult environment of the COVID-19 pandemic. As such, the flexibilities we've introduced into the Canada summer jobs program will help with more hiring of youth and more supports to employers, including non-profits and businesses that deliver essential services to Canadians. These changes will help small businesses hire and keep the workers that they need in the Canada summer jobs program.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: The young people and employers listening to us must be very surprised by what the minister is saying. He mentioned that the rules are now more flexible. However, it is taking a month and a half longer than last year. The money has not yet been given out. I have done my homework. I went to see what was happening in my riding and in about 10other ridings. Last year, in my riding, all the money had been deposited before April. Right now, there is a $240,000shortfall for about 60student jobs, and the minister has the nerve to tell us that the government has provided more flexibility. Why is the money not available if the government wants to act quickly, to help the economy recover and to help young people?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, indeed we are acting quickly. We are listening to the needs of the employers to make sure that this program works not only for them but also for youth, and that it gives them the experiences they need. It is adapted better for the COVID-19 pandemic to ensure that youth have the experience they need to gain life and work skills from the program. It's a great program, and we're making it work not just for businesses but also for non-profits.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: Here is the reality. Last week, the owner of a hardware store in a village in my riding had to close his business because he was unable to hire students and had no one to work. This morning, an employer called me to tell me that his request to hire a student had been accepted, but that the delay meant that he could not proceed with the hiring. This means that one more young person will not have a job. That young person will therefore have to receive the CESB. There is the reality. When is the government going to release the money required for young people to be able to work?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, I join the honourable member in recognizing that in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic there are some difficulties in terms of structuring the program and making sure that employers are able to access it. That is why we've introduced flexibilities to ensure that employers are able to access the program and that youth are also able to take advantage of the program to gain important work skills, especially in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic and especially in providing essential services that serve their fellow Canadians. It's a great program. We're doing everything that we can to work through some of those obstacles.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Shin.\nMs. Nelly Shin: Thank you, Mr. Chair. By its own numbers, PSPC has had to cut the number of N95 masks the government has on order after cancelling contracts with companies that were not able to meet Canadian standards. We know that companies right here in Canada were willing to step up and fill in the gap. Will the minister commit to making domestic production of PPE, including N95 masks, a priority?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement): Mr. Chair, our priority is to make sure that we get safe and effective equipment and supplies into the hands of front-line health care workers. We've been running multiple complementary supply chains at the same time. Building up domestic capacity is indeed a priority. We have a contract with Medicom in Montreal for the production of N95 masks and we will continue to work hard to ensure\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Shin.\n",
      "Ms. Nelly Shin: Mr. Chair, Novo Textiles, a company in my riding, has retooled its factory to produce surgical masks in response to the shortage of PPE in Canada. Additionally, it will soon be producing quality made-in-Canada N95 masks using Canadian designs and Canadian-made machinery. My constituent has invested his own capital and is in active production supplying front-line workers right now, not just talking about it. However, the company's application to NGen was recently rejected. Canada needs masks now, masks that meet Canadian standards. Is the government serious about growing domestic production capacity, or is it all talk and no action?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: In reality, we have received 101.3 million surgical masks that are being distributed out to provinces and territories. We have signed 24 contracts with domestic companies for the production of PPE right here at home. We are working very hard, Mr. Chair, to make sure Canadian front-line health care workers have exactly what they need to fight this pandemic.\nMs. Nelly Shin: Mr. Chair, how many of these have received financial support from the government?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, I'm not quite sure what the member is referring to by how many of these, but as I said, we have signed 24 contracts with domestic\nThe Chair: We'll have to go back to Ms. Shin.\nMs. Nelly Shin: Where are these manufacturers located?\nHon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, we have surgical masks being produced right here at home, as well as abroad, being brought into Canada\nThe Chair: Back to Ms. Shin.\nMs. Nelly Shin: What provinces are they in?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, as I said, we have a contract with General Motors for the production of surgical masks\nThe Chair: Ms. Shin.\nMs. Nelly Shin: Are there any in any provinces besides Ontario and Quebec?\nHon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, we have contracts with multiple provinces throughout this country for the production of personal protective equipment. We are committed\nThe Chair: Back to Ms. Shin.\nMs. Nelly Shin: How many of these domestic manufacturers rely on supply chains in China?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, we are dealing with a situation of very high global demand for the same product. As a result, we\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Shin.\nMs. Nelly Shin: Will the Minister commit to providing my office with answers to these questions? Thank you.\nHon. Anita Anand: I will commit, Mr. Chair, to continuing to work hard for Canadians to supply the personal protective equipment that they need. We have been giving updated numbers on our website\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Shin.\n",
      "Ms. Nelly Shin: I'm going to assume that answer is no. Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister introduced the Canada student service grant on April 22. Students were told details would arrive in a matter of weeks. It's been over a month, the I Want To Help platform has no details yet about eligibility, levels of funding, or how to apply. Post-secondary students are already one-quarter into their summer break. When can students expect to start applying for the CSSG so they can receive their grants? Thank you.\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth): Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to share that students can anticipate more programs coming out as soon as possible. The I Want to Help website will be launched. Students can already apply for Canada summer jobs if they go to jobbank.gc.ca. By visiting Canada.ca/coronavirus, you'll see a suite of programs to ensure that students and young people are able to succeed. The coronavirus will not win, and our government will continue investing in our leaders of today and tomorrow.\nThe Chair: The next set of questions goes to Mr. Brassard.\n",
      "Mr. John Brassard (BarrieInnisfil, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Last week the President of the Treasury Board wrote a letter to his cabinet colleagues in which he said that, as the federal minister responsible for public access to government information, he has advised his cabinet colleagues of the need for transparency and accountability, even in times of crisis. My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities. Does she agree with the President of the Treasury Board's directive?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage): Mr. Chair, the government remains committed to maintaining the openness and transparency of our government during this challenging time. The Government of Canada, along with provincial and territorial governments, have implemented exceptional workplace measures to curb the spread of COVID-19, and to protect the health and safety of federal employees. These measures have had an impact on institutions' abilities to respond to access to information and personal information requests, since most employees are now working from their homes.\n",
      "Mr. John Brassard: Frankly, I'm surprised that the answer is coming from that minister when the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities is in the House, but I will ask this question. Can the minister tell Canadians who Pierre Lavalle is?\nHon. Steven Guilbeault: Treasury Board Secretariat has provided guidance to institutions to continue to make the best efforts to respond to Access to Information Act and Privacy Act requests and to provide published content\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Brassard.\nMr. John Brassard: Can the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities tell us who Pierre Lavalle is?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities): Mr. Chair, of course. Pierre Lavalle was the former CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We are very proud that we now have Michael Sabia as the new chair of the Infrastructure Bank. He did a fabulous job in Montreal at\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Brassard.\nMr. John Brassard: Can the minister tell me how long Mr. Lavalle was the CEO of the Infrastructure Bank?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, I can't give you the exact months. He was the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank since the beginning, but let's be clear: Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government and must have\nThe Chair: We'll return to Mr. Brassard.\nMr. John Brassard: Can I ask the minister how well she knows her file: 50%, 75% or 100%?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, that's quite a condescending little comment. I'd like to say that I know my file very well. What I know is that Canadians want infrastructure built, they want it built across the country, in the member opposite's riding and in ridings across the country. They want cleaner, healthier, more connected  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Brassard.\nMr. John Brassard: How much of the $35 billion of infrastructure money that was allocated to that bank has been spent so far?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, the Infrastructure Bank is a new, more flexible financing model for infrastructure investments. It was set up; it is now in its new phase. We're very excited that it's going to be moving forwardand stay tuned.\nMr. John Brassard: In the context of Mr. Duclos' advice to his cabinet colleagues about openness and transparency, I'd like to ask the minister how much Mr. Lavalle was paid annually.\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, as I said, Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government. Our government follows the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act when it comes to employee compensation, but remuneration ranges are publicly available. I'd note that this information for the bank's CEOs has been in the public domain\nThe Chair: Mr. Brassard.\n",
      "Mr. John Brassard: Mr. Chair, I'm asking the minister how much Mr. Lavalle made. There was no answer to that. If it is in the public realm, she should know that. She said she knows her file very well. How much of a bonus was Mr. Lavalle paid recently when he left on April 2?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, I am not involved in HR discussions when it comes to the Canada Infrastructure Bank and Mr. Lavalle. Crown corporations work at arm's length from the government. They need to have flexibility to meet their commercial mandates. As I say, the information about salary ranges is publicly available, but personal HR\nThe Chair: Mr. Brassard.\nMr. John Brassard: Mr. Chair, could you stop my...? I'm hearing....\nThe Chair: I would ask those of us virtually to mute. Mr. Brassard, there is about 15 seconds left. I'll cue you for a very short question.\n",
      "Mr. John Brassard: Thank you, Mr. Chair. According to a table, Mr. Lavalle could have received a bonus after year one of zero to 75% of his base salary, which was $510,000 to $600,000 per year; or in year two, which he was in, zero to 120% of his base salary. How much of a bonus did he receive?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: The rate of any remuneration paid to the chief executive officer is based on the recommendations of the board. Our government follows the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act when it comes to employee compensation. Let me say this: We're very excited about the new phase of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We have Michael Sabia there as the new board chair. We need to move forward on\nThe Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Chong.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong (WellingtonHalton Hills, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Parliament's now been suspended for three months, since Friday, March 13. Will the government commit to reopening the House of Commons with its full powers, with social distancing, on Monday, September 21?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): Mr. Chair, as my colleague knows, we're meeting here four days a week, with questions on any topic for an hour and 35 minutes instead of 45 minutes a day. Democracy is as important for us as it is for the opposition.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong: Mr. Chair, this committee is neutered. It has no powers to introduce supply day motions, no powers to test government confidence, no powers to do the usual things that Parliament does. At times of crisis, the bedrock principles of rule of law and democracy are tested, and our democratic principles are buckling under the pressure from this government. They came to office promising greater transparency, but they broke almost every one of their promises. They broke their promise on electoral reform. They appointed an anti-Conservative organization, Unifor, to the media bailout fund. In the last parliament, they tried to give the PMO control over this legislature in Motion No. 6, and in the last election, they rigged the leaders' debates in their favour, and now they have suspended Parliament. Instead of this neutered committee that meets for only a few days with a few members, will the government commit to the full re-opening of this House with all its powers with social distancing on Monday, September 21?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr.Chair, the government's objective is always to try to resume Parliament as it was before. Today, we have to live with this pandemic, but we will do everything we can to return to a normal situation as quickly as possible. That is clear and precise. The opposition asked for more time, especially to ask questions, and that is what it got. I would like my colleague to tell me one thing. Over the past few weeks, we have sent suggestions to opposition members about the operation of Parliament and they have never responded. I would like to know why.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong: Mr. Chair, the full parliament with its full powers sat through two world wars, previous pandemics and the October crisis in 1970. The governments of those days did not seek the suspension of the House. The government is not only failing to defend democracy here but also abroad. It can't utter the word Taiwan. It is failing to be strong and clear on Hong Kong and, while the situation today is not that of decades past, it is clear that Canada in the past stood for the rights of people in Hong Kong. Canada needs to take much stronger diplomatic action on Hong Kong. There are some 300,000 Canadians living there, and they are looking for the government's support. When will this government act? When will it threaten economic sanctions like the U.S. administration has? When will it provide asylum and a clear path to citizenship like the U.K. government has? When will it speak up against the Communist Party of China's United Front workers operating here in this country? When will it do like Australia did in calling for an international investigation of COVID-19, and organize an international coalition of like-minded democracies to defend Hong Kongers and the violation of the Sino-British treaty?\n",
      "The Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne (Minister of Foreign Affairs): Mr. Chair, I'll remind the member to look at our statement of May 28. It's already done. Canada has spoken to the world; Canada has spoken up. We've made a first declaration with our colleagues in Australia and the U.K. to say that we have deep concerns. We all know that the one country, two systemsthe high degree of liberty and freedom enjoyed by the people in Hong Konghas made Hong Kong what it is today, a beacon when it comes to trade and financing. We know that and have expressed deep concern. Again, on May 28, with the United States, with the United Kingdom and with Australia, Canada was front and centre in saying that we have deep concerns that the imposition of a national security law by Beijing would undermine the very foundation, the very principles that have made Hong Kong so successful. We said that we and our international partners would look at the implications and the ramifications that this might have on our arrangement. I've called for a meeting of our Five Eyes partners tonight. I'll be chairing a meeting of our Five Eyes partners with the foreign ministers. We will be discussing it and will continue to raise our voices to stand up for the people of Hong Kong, and we will do it with our allies.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Maguire.\nMr. Larry Maguire (BrandonSouris, CPC): Mr. Chair, farmers have contacted my office about the massive delays with processing the advance payment program loans. Some put their applications in almost two months ago, and not a dollar has flowed. What's the point of having an advance payment program if there's no payment? Can the Minister of Agriculture tell us when these delays will end?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Mr.Chair, I can assure you that we are working with all the independent operators. This program is not administered by their officials, but by partners. I can assure you that, under the circumstances, they are doing their best to make the advance payments\nMr. Larry Maguire: Farmers understand that some of the delays were caused by staff having to work remotely. However, did the minister approve a policy change on April 1 that made the eligibility for these loans more difficult during the middle of a pandemic, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, a number of changes and improvements have been made to the program. To make things easier for our administrators, we have postponed some of the changes that could have been problematic.\nMr. Larry Maguire: Yes, so some of the changes made it more problematic for the producers. The minister must take responsibility for these delays. Farmers deserve an answer on why she changed the program. Who advised her that it would be a good idea to make it more difficult for the farmers to access the advance payment program in the middle of a pandemic? Or did she just go ahead and do this on her own?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, we are constantly working with the administrators of the program. We are fully prepared to respond to their requests so that the advance payments program can best serve our producers across the country.\nMr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers are telling me that the premiums for the western livestock insurance program are too high. I told the Minister of Agriculture over two weeks ago that this was a problem, and yet she went out and said that farmers needed to make better use of existing support. When will the Minister of Agriculture listen to what the farmers are saying so they can actually use the existing programs?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I would like to remind everyone that we have put in place certain measures to improve access to AgriStability. We have also significantly improved the AgriRecovery program. Over the past few years, this program amounted to about $15million. It is now $100million for pork and beef producers alone, not counting the $77.5million for food processors.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire: Livestock producers in my riding and several across Canada are still waiting for the Minister of Agriculture's promise for an AgriRecovery program. When will the Minister of Agriculture stop rubbing salt in the farmers' wounds and provide the rest of the story she has been saying is on its way for over a month now in her AgriRecovery promise?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, we have committed $50million to beef producers and $50million to pork producers through the AgriRecovery program. Here is how the program works: the federal government contributes up to60% and then the provinces implement it how they see fit.\nMr. Larry Maguire: The funding announced by the Minister of Agriculture for the livestock industry was insufficient, and what was promised has not been delivered. This has caused hogs to be euthanized and over 100,000 feeder cattle to become overweight. The industry is in a crisis. How many livestock producers need to go bankrupt before they get the help they deserve?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, once again, we have significantly increased the amounts available through AgriRecovery. It is $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers. These programs are administered by the provinces. There is also $77.5million for processors.\nThe Chair: Ms.Chabot, you have the floor.\n",
      "Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: Mr.Chair, we know that not everyone experiences economic recovery in the same way. In some sectors, such as tourism, fishery, hotels and restaurants, we do not know when activity will resume or whether it will resume slowly. This is a major concern for workers, because they do not know what will happen tomorrow. They do not know how much they will be able to earn this summer. Given that the CERB lasts 16weeks, they are all afraid that they will be left with nothing. Without a job, they have no income. Will the Minister of Finance announce now that he is extending the CERB?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly at the early onset of the COVID-19 pandemic to support workersthose who have lost their jobs, who were laid off, or those whose jobs simply disappearedthrough the Canada emergency response benefit. It has provided immense support to the over eight million Canadian workers who have applied to the CERB. We will continue to support those workers throughout the COVID-19 pandemic period.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot: Mr.Chair, my question was clear. We know why the CERB was put in place. It does not need to be explained to us again. For some workers, the CERB will end tomorrow morning. There will be no recovery in their sector. Examples include bars, sports training, arts and culture. They don't know when they will start up again. Is the government prepared to extend the Canada emergency response benefit now?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, the workers that the honourable member identified, including those who were not eligible for the EI, were also covered by the Canada emergency response benefit. We moved quickly. We recognized the urgency of the situation, which is why we took action to support workers and their families through the Canada emergency response benefit. We have processed over eight million applications through that benefit. We will continue to support Canadian workers at this very difficult time.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot: Mr.Chair, are we going to continue to help workers in these difficult times? The answer is simple. Some don't know what they are going to do tomorrow morning. They do not know whether they will have an income to pay their bills. They have families, they have other needs. The CERB is going to end. This is the last period for some people. Can you do anything about it? Can I walk out of the House today and tell all those people that the CERB is going to be extended?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance): Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the honourable member for her question. We will clearly maintain our approach. We will look at how we can improve and change our programs, such as the wage subsidy. Of course, we are looking at how we can gradually reopen our economy by continuing to help people to be in a good position.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot: Mr.Chair, we are making progress. Yes, the decision is to extend the wage subsidy. I think we must do the same with the CERB, which is about to end. Another important commitment is the employment incentives. I don't know about you, but we see it in our ridings. People are scared because the economy is reopening in certain sectors. People are afraid to go back to work. People are afraid to go back to full-time jobs because they are afraid of losing all their emergency benefits. This affects workers and students alike. Are you prepared to take action on this issue? You have also promised to implement employment incentives.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we know that, with a responsible reopening of the economy, we have to look at our programs to make sure that we are keeping and protecting people. That continues to be our approach. We will look at changes and improvements. In that way, we will continue our responsible reopening of the economy.\nThe Chair: We are going to take a break so that our employees can change shifts without jeopardizing their health. While we have a few seconds, I would also like to remind members to address their questions to the chair, not directly to the ministers.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC)): We'll now carry on. We'll go to Mr. Easter in Malpeque.\n",
      "Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for Brampton North. Today, June 1, under the auspices of the Food and Agriculture Organization, we celebrate World Milk Day. World Milk Day allows us to emphasize the importance of milk as a global food, its benefits for our health as well as our nutrition; and to celebrate the dairy sector, from the primary producers to the processors who ensure that our many high-quality dairy products get to the marketplace. Canadians are fortunate to have a thriving dairy sector that, under supply management, provides high-quality products at reasonable prices to consumers. Even under supply management though, dairy farmers have found themselves facing difficult challenges as a result of recent trade agreements and sudden market shocks as a result of the pandemic. Mr. Chair, to acknowledge World Milk Day, I'd love to be able to raise a glass of wholesome white or chocolate milk, but we can't do that. On the other hand, I must ask the Minister of Agriculture what the government is doing to support the dairy sector in these times so we can celebrate World Milk Day next year with more vim and vigour.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank Mr. Easter, from the great riding of Malpeque in Prince Edward Island. Today it is particularly important to thank families working on the 11,000 dairy farms across the country, caring for 1.4 million cows to produce each year more than 9.3 billion litres of milk of the highest quality. The dairy sector in Canada is made up of more than 220,000 Canadians and foreign workers who dedicate their lives to feed us. While our society lives through unprecedented changes, the dairy sector demonstrates its resilience and proves more than ever the value of the supply management system. It is why we increased by $200 million the borrowing capacity of the Canadian Dairy Commission to improve its butter and cheese storage programs, giving the flexibility to manage the surplus of milk and support its mandate. Over the past few years, we have invested in dairy farms and given direct compensation to dairy farmers through trade agreements with Europe and Asia. We will do the same for the new NAFTA. Raise a glass for World Milk Day.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Ms. Sahota in Brampton North.\n",
      "Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.): Mr. Chair, last week a horrific video surfaced showing the killing of an unarmed black man at the hands of the Minneapolis police. George Floyd's death was the latest in a series of unwarranted deaths of black men and women at the hands of police. Since his death, solidarity protests have erupted across cities in the United States and all over the world asking for justice and a stop to systemic dehumanization of black people. I wish I could say we are, but sadly we are not immune to the reality of what is happening south of the border. The same protests taking place in New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Berlin, Paris and London are also taking place in our own backyard. In cities like Montreal and Toronto, thousands of people have already taken to the streets, not only to decry anti-black racism but also to ask for tangible solutions to effectively combat anti-black racism. We don't have to wait for pain, suffering and outrage to boil to the surface to act. There's nothing we know today that we didn't already know. As Canadians are demonstrating and calling on their society and governments to do better, can the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth tell us what this government is doing to address anti-black racism in Canada and to ensure we are evening the playing field for black Canadians?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger: Mr. Chair, the MP for Brampton North is correct. Anti-black racism, racism and discrimination are present in Canada. With COVID-19, we have even seen a rise in anti-Asian racism. We all must speak out against racism and discrimination. Keeping silent is to condone these horrific acts. These acts don't have to be violent or result in the loss of life to be wrong. In fact, the actions of Amy Cooper shone a light on the stealth racism that exists. We must acknowledge inequities in our institutions and in people's lived experiences. If we as Canadians truly desire an inclusive Canada, every single one of us must step up, be an ally and do what we can to make workplaces, communities and public spaces safer. Our government has started this work. The open, transparent, merit-based appointment process is resulting in decision-making tables better reflecting Canadians. We recognize the UN International Decade for People of African Descent; the applications for capacity building in black Canadian communities are being assessed; the anti-racism secretariat is set up for Canadians but also for government departments to improve their systems, including advancement opportunities; and the recently announced immunity task force will provide disaggregated data to decision-makers because decisions need to be based on science and evidence. This work is by no means finished. Although our government is moving in the right decision, there is clearly a lot more work to do and we are committed to doing that work with communities as allies, as partners.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go to Mr. Duvall from Hamilton Mountain.\nMr. Scott Duvall (Hamilton Mountain, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be splitting my time with the member for ElmwoodTranscona. Mr. Chair, workers' unions, business leaders and analysts across the country are raising a huge alarm over potential bankruptcies due to COVID-19. Thousands of Canadian workers are exposed and vulnerable. For years the government has promised to change the laws to protect workers from corporate bankruptcy, but has failed to deliver. Will this government fix the law before more Canadian workers lose their hard-earned pensions?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\nHon. Filomena Tassi (Minister of Labour): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the member for Hamilton Mountain for that question and for his advocacy on this file. I remind the member that since 2015 one of our first initiatives was the repealing of Bills C-525 and C-377, which were anti-union legislation. Since then, we've implemented a number of measures to protect workers. We've increased the wage earner protection program by extending it from four weeks to seven weeks. The member is well aware that in 2019\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go back to Mr. Duvall.\nMr. Scott Duvall: Mr. Chair, the changes the government made last year to bankruptcy insolvency laws were largely cosmetic and won't protect workers' and pensioners' livelihoods once bankruptcy hits. The government can protect severance, termination pay, pensions and benefits from corporate theft, but will they do it, yes or no?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Filomena Tassi: Mr. Chair, we made a number of significant changes in budget 2019, including that the process for the CCAA be more open and transparent. We mandated that those who are coming to the process have to be honest and truthful. One thing we heard in the consultations was the ability for courts to set aside executive bonuses, and we implemented all those changes because we want to continue to protect pensioners.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have time for a short question, Mr. Duvall.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Duvall: Thanks, Mr. Chair. The minister isn't answering the question. Canadian workers are worried. This is about their livelihoods. Will the government fix the lawsyes or noto protect workers' and pensioners' rights?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\nHon. Filomena Tassi: Mr. Chair, we have made amendments, and we are going to continue to make amendments. We want to absolutely ensure that pensions are protected. I look forward to working collaboratively with the member.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. Blaikie, ElmwoodTranscona.\n",
      "Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Twice, following negotiations with the NDP, the government has committed to provide direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities. I'm wondering when those people can expect the government to announce the details of that assistance.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we are committed to advancing on the issues that have been identified by Canadians with disabilities. We are continuing that engagement, and we will have more to say on that very soon.\n",
      "Mr. Daniel Blaikie: I think that answer is entirely inadequate. I have a lot of sympathy for people across the country who are living with disabilities and are getting impatient with the fact that alongside its initial commitment to seniors, for instance, the government made a commitment to helping people living with disabilities with the same kind of direct financial assistance, and it hasn't come. Why has it taken so long for the government to get around to helping people who are in a crisis right now? I want to know the reason why this hasn't been announced yet.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we have established the COVID-19 disability advisory group, comprising experts in disability inclusion. We're moving forward with the Canada emergency student benefit, which will provide $2,000 per month for eligible students with permanent disabilities. We are doubling the Canada student grants for students with disabilities in the coming academic year. We have done a lot, but we will continue to do more, and we will have more to share on our continuing efforts to support persons with disabilities.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Go ahead, Mr. Blaikie. You have time for one short question.\n",
      "Mr. Daniel Blaikie: Their commitment was not around an advisory commitment. Their commitment was for direct financial assistance to people living with disabilities who are facing additional costs because of the pandemic. They have committed twice and they have done nothing. When are they going to get around to it? Why should people living with disabilities have to wait any longer than they already have?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, that is precisely why we are listening closely to the COVID-19 disability advisory group to get expert advice. We will have more to share. There is more work to come, and there will be results to be announced very soon.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. McLean, Calgary Centre.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. According to La Presse, federal cabinet ministers Steven Guilbeault , Catherine McKenna and Jonathan Wilkinson have been handed responsibility for crafting an economic recovery plan that aims to accelerate the green shift. True to form, this cabal around the Prime Minister has declared let's not let a good crisis go to waste. Can the Prime Minister confirm that his ministers have been working with environmental lobby groups for further financial support to engineer Canada's economy post COVID?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable Minister of Middle Class Prosperity.\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance): Mr. Chair, our most urgent priority is COVID-19 and the health and safety of Canadians. As we support Canadians through this time, we will also ensure our long-term economic, environmental and physical well-being. Our government remains committed to building a stronger and more resilient economy to ensure a sustainable, prosperous future for our kids and grandkids. Just like science is guiding us in our response to COVID-19, science will continue to guide us toward reduced pollution and in fighting climate change.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: The task force for a resilient recovery was quoted as saying last week that they would have recommendations for government action available within eight weeks, notably eight weeks when Parliament is, by this government's design, absent. Can the Prime Minister disclose to this committee how many meetings his 61 environmental activist advisers have had with the task force or its members?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, our most urgent priority with respect to COVID-19 is the health and safety of Canadians. While supporting Canadians during this period, we must also ensure our economic, environmental and physical well-being in the long term. Our government remains committed to building a stronger, more resilient economy to ensure a sustainable future for our grandchildren and children.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: The task force is a who's who of academics and bureaucrats, but surprisingly, includes no one from the productive part of the Canadian economy. So much for pan-Canadian input. The task force is reviewing work produced by Smart Prosperity, a government-funded institute whose membership overlaps with both the task force and the government's own Canadian Institute for Climate Choices. This is a bureaucratic environmental Ponzi scheme, with overlapping personnel and mandates. The only thing not overlapping is their funding. How many organizations does this government need to fund to recycle work produced by other redundant government-funded entities?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, as we know, our priority right now is the health and safety of Canadians. Just as science guides us in our response to COVID-19, it will continue to guide us in reducing pollution and fighting climate change. Our priority is to support Canadians during this period and we must also ensure our environmental, economic and physical well-being in the long term.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: A notable member of the task force in question is one Gerald Butts. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but can the Prime Minister confirm if this is the same Gerald Butts who was forced to resign as his principal secretary for his role in attempting to force Canada's then justice minister into breaking the law?\nHon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, since the beginning of this crisis, our priority has been to support Canadians and their health and safety. We will continue to do so, because it is important that we get through this crisis by supporting Canadians.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who was paid $360,000 U.S. by an American-funded organization after he started working with the Prime Minister?\nHon. Mona Fortier: Once again, Mr.Chair, it is important to talk to Canadians right now to tell them that we are putting their health and safety first. We will continue to do so. We are going through a crisis right now and we will support Canadians.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: Mr. Chair, is this the same Gerald Butts who, in his role as the principal secretary in the office of Ontario's then premier, advanced policies that now saddle Ontarians with the highest energy costs in North America? Is this is the same Gerald Butts who weighed down Ontario with the world's highest subnational debt burden, all for the benefit of new green jobs that, notably, have never arrived?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, as we know, for the past two and a half months, we have been supporting Canadians. We have put forward an economic program to help businesses, workers and Canadians across the country. We will continue to make the health and safety of Canadians a priority.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the MP for West Nova, Mr. d'Entremont.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Yesterday, the Minister responsible for tourism, ACOA and official languages was happy to close our national Tourism Week by announcing investments of $70 million to offset financial losses in the tourism industry across Canada. Where's the big clap?  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!  Mr. Chris d'Entremont: There you go, give her a clap. More than $70 million will be invested to support this sector and promote Canadian destinations. Southern Ontario received $30 million, northern Ontario received $7 million and western Canada received $3.5 million. There's nothing for Atlantic Canada yet. Knowing that we just had an announcement from the Minister of Transport that there will be no cruise ships in Atlantic Canada or anywhere in Canada this year, resulting in hundreds of millions of dollars in losses, where is the program for Atlantic Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages): Mr. Chair, I commend my colleague for his important question. I know he's a very strong advocate for the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada, so I want to reassure him. Obviously, we want to support the tourism sector in Atlantic Canada. ACOA has a clear direction to do just that. If he has any good ideas, please let him come forward and let's have a conversation. Meanwhile, Atlantic Canada will also be supported through Destination Canada. Rather than doing marketing internationally, we will be supporting destination marketing organizations across the country, including in Atlantic Canada, to make sure that we launch this new movement to visit local.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont: That would be all great if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic and you can't even cross the Nova Scotia-New Brunswick border without having to self-isolate for two weeks. It's going to make travelling, through the Maritimes at least, very difficult. In Saint John, New Brunswick, 79 cruise ships and more than 270,000 passengers will not be giving back to that local community. At home in Nova Scotia, it's about 118 or 130 vessels. In terms of a minimum financial loss, $165 million will not be generated. There will be job losses and permanent closures of restaurants and boardwalk shops. Prince Edward Island, which was expected to have a record attendance year, will lose visits of 97 ships and 154,000 passengers, and $60 million to the province's economy will be lost. Mr. Chair, my question to the minister is this: Who is ACOA going to be working with, and what kinds of programs are going to be available to help them through this very difficult year?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: I agree with my colleague. The sector is really impacted by the pandemic and the economic crisis. It is a bit like the canary in the coal mine; it was the first impacted, and definitely it is still impacted. That's why we are in close contact with tourism leaders and operators across the country. Again, recently I had good conversations with the chambers of commerce all across Atlantic Canada, including Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador for the tourism sector. There is money for the tourism sector and tourism operators. They can have access to the wage subsidy. They wanted to have access to it until later in the summer, and it has been extended to the end of August. They have access to the rent relief program, the CEBA and ACOA funding. As mentioned many times in this chamber, Mr. Chair, if my colleague has clear examples to provide me, let's work together. Let's make sure the money flows to these people, because they need it.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have only about a minute left, Mr. d'Entremont.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Mr.Chair, like the minister, last week, I spoke with Simon-Pierre Poulin, the director of Le Franco newspaper in Alberta, about the Sauvons Saint-Jean movement. He asked me why we could not continue to work on official languages and on modernizing the act even though Parliament is sitting in a different configuration. Unfortunately, I had to explain to him that many restrictions were associated with the current format of this fake Parliament. The pandemic is also threatening the protection of French in minority communities. The Liberal government made a commitment to modernize the Official Languages Act in the first six months of its mandate. How will it proceed?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Mr.Chair, it goes without saying that our two official languages are important and that, when it comes to language rights, we must always be on guard and protect what we have achieved. As for Campus Saint-Jean, I am very aware of the issue. I had the opportunity to speak with my two counterparts in Alberta late Friday afternoon to tell them about our concerns and the need to protect the institution from drastic cuts. That was the first point. The second point is the modernization of the Official Languages Act. I have the same concerns as my colleague. Clearly, we must continue the conversations and find the right solutions. Finally, we must be there to protect our language rights. If the member has good ideas, he can come to me to discuss them.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for ChicoutimiLe Fjord has the floor.\nMr. Richard Martel (ChicoutimiLe Fjord, CPC): Mr.Chair, some people for whom the 15weeks of sickness benefits were not enough before the COVID-19crisis now have to exhaust their regular employment insurance benefits before they are entitled to the CERB. Today, I would like to know whether they will be able to exhaust their weeks of eligibility for the CERB after October3.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we ensured that those who switched over to the Canada emergency response benefit would be covered by it, whether they were EI eligible or not. We are committed to supporting all of the workers who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: According to a survey conducted by the Universit du Qubec Trois-Rivires' research institute on small and medium size businesses, the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region would be the most affected by the economic effects of COVID-19. This is not surprising. In fact, in our region, the tourism industry generates more than $300million in economic activity, including $58million for the cruise industry alone. The $70million that you announced yesterday is a very modest start. What does the government intend to do for the tourism industry in the regions?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Mr.Chair, it goes without saying that the tourism industry is indeed very much affected. That is why we are responding to their concerns and worries. We have therefore extended the emergency wage subsidy until the end of August. We are also providing the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance, as well as the $40,000loans from the Canada emergency business account. We have also just announced $70million in support for Canada's tourism sector. I am having good talks with various stakeholders in Quebec, including Martin Soucy from the Alliance de l'industrie touristique du Qubec. In addition, we are going to do our part to support the tourism sector through Economic Development Canada.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: Mr.Chair, the tourism industry in the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region is the sum of all its stakeholders. Many of these businesses are too small to receive the assistance announced by the federal government. Overly restrictive standards will prevent some tourist accommodation from welcoming guests this year, even though they will have to pay their bills every month. What does the government plan to do to help the regions most affected economically?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: I thank my colleague for his important question. What he is describing is the reason we are currently working on a game plan. We really want to be able to reach these small businesses, of which there are many in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean, in Quebec and across the country. That is why the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have committed an additional $1billion to help those businesses that fall through the cracks. We need to respond now, and I will have more to say about it in the next few days.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: Mr.Chair, I was very disappointed to see that we had lost asparagus crops due to a labour shortage. When I spoke with the blueberry growers in my area, they told me they were concerned that the same thing could happen to them. Some employers to whom we granted summer positions are not finding students to fill them. When will there be incentives to encourage people to work rather than disincentives?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we believe that the flexibilities we have introduced to the Canada summer jobs program will enable more employers to use it, including more businesses, as well as help young people to acquire the necessary skills and benefits from this really important program.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Martel, you have about a minute left.\nMr. Richard Martel: Mr.Chair, on May19, the government said that it was studying several solutions to help business owners and entrepreneurs who operate their business using a personal bank account. When will the Canada emergency business account be available to them?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, small businesses are the heart of all of our communities, and we've been working really hard to help them. Almost 650,000 small businesses have received the loan, which is really helping with those costs. We have more work to do to make sure that those other businesses also get access to this support.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. Epp, the member for Chatham-KentLeamington.\n",
      "Mr. Dave Epp: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wish to congratulate my colleague, Cathy McLeod. On Tuesday, May 26, she gained a new resident when Brinnley Lisette Huby was born to parents Adam and Carina Huby. Carina is my daughter, and that makes Brinnley my first grandchild and presently my favourite newest Canadian. All are healthy, and I thank God for Brinnley's healthy arrival.   Some honourable members: Hear, hear!  Mr. Dave Epp: Minister Jordan, the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation is allowed access to the seafood stabilization fund, while you deny its competitor, our Ontario fisheries that fish on the Great Lakes, the similar right to apply. Minister, why?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (South ShoreSt. Margarets, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague for the very good question. The Ontario inland fishers and the people in Ontario are eligible for other programs that are offered through the regional development agencies. We are going to make sure that no industry is left behind when it comes to our fisheries. We're making sure that we're addressing the concerns of inland fisheries as well as coastal fisheries. Those programs will be available to anyone who needs to apply through the RDAs.\nMr. Dave Epp: Minister, will you then direct these regional agencies to provide equitable funding equivalent to the seafood stabilization fund?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, we're making sure that they have the same access to programs through the regional development agencies as there is through the seafood stabilization fund. We're making sure that everyone who is in need of support through the programs will be able to access it.\nMr. Dave Epp: According to Stats Canada, before my granddaughter turns one year old, her share of the federal debt will be over $39,000. What is Minister Morneau's fiscal plan for Canada so that the interest on this debt doesn't cripple Canada with higher taxes?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we realize that it's always important to be responsible from a fiscal standpoint. We believe that the responsible approach today is to make investments to support Canadians and to support businesses. In that way we can have jobs and we can get through this pandemic and have a strong economy and be able to continue with our approach to managing our economy in a responsible\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Mr. Epp.\nMr. Dave Epp: Minister, when can Parliament, or this semblance of it, see that plan for economic prosperity?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I would like to remind honourable members to direct their questions through the Chair. The honourable minister may reply.\nHon. Bill Morneau: Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been quite clear that we need to be transparent on a daily basis by giving Canadians an understanding of the investments that we're making through this pandemic. Once the situation is more stable economically, we will certainly be coming forward with a broader plan.\n",
      "Mr. Dave Epp: Mr. Chair, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce said three months before the pandemic that this current government's level of spending and incurring of debt is untenable and that future generations, like my granddaughter, will have to pay for it. How much more debt is the minister planning to incur?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, coming into this pandemic in a strong fiscal position with the lowest amount of debt among the G7 countries is a function of our economy that's afforded us the opportunity to invest on behalf of Canadians. We will continue to take that approach. We believe that's the responsible thing to do through the course of this challenge.\n",
      "Mr. Dave Epp: What is the budget for stopping illegal American guns from getting through our borders?\nHon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport): Mr. Chair, I thank the member for the question. I can tell you that we have invested considerable amounts of money and have earmarked ongoing monies to ensure that we address the issue of illegal guns passing across the border. We realize\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Mr. Epp.\nMr. Dave Epp: What's the budget, then, to fight government-trained and licensed Canadians in the court challenge that's now been triggered?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will go to the honourable minister. We're not getting any audio.\nMr. Dave Epp: I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. Could I have some more time, please?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Yes. We're just going to hold time here momentarily, Mr. Epp.\nHon. Marc Garneau: I apologize, Mr. Chair. Could I ask for the question to be repeated, please?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Epp, what is your question again?\n",
      "Mr. Dave Epp: What is the budget for fighting the government-trained and licensed people who are now triggering a lawsuit against your order in council?\nHon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, I don't have the answer to that question, but obviously the government will defend its position.\n",
      "Mr. Dave Epp: Mr. Chair, COVID-19 has exacerbated the problem of this government's policy of spending the cupboards bare in good times instead of planning for a rainy dayand folks, we're in a storm. Unlike this government, municipalities cannot by law say put it on the tab for the next generation. The balanced budget requirements force them to choose between slashed services and drastic tax hikes. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities says they need $10 billion in targeted emergency operating funding, so do municipalities slash services, do they raise taxes, or will we be there for the municipalities?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Our government absolutely understands the crucial role municipalities play as the engine of our economy at all times, and particularly today, as in many parts of the country we are looking to restart the economy. That is why the Prime Minister announced just this morning that we will be accelerating payments under the gas tax fund. Municipalities will receive the full amount of their 2020-21 payment on June 10. This will help them with some of their near-term liquidity issues.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to Mr. Manly, the member for NanaimoLadysmith. Mr. Manly, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program is not helping enough small businesses. Many landlords do not want to take part in the program. Small businesses are requesting that they be able to apply without the landlord's participation. Many small businesses do not meet the 70% income-loss threshold. Many did their best to keep employees engaged and tried hard to not lose clients, as the government urged them to do. They are, in fact, being penalized for that effort. Thousands of business owners across the country will not be able to pay their rent today and risk closing permanently. Will the government push the provinces to include an eviction moratorium during the pandemic and make this commercial rent assistance program more flexible to ensure small businesses can survive?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for the question, which recognizes the very serious challenge that many small businesses are facing during the course of this pandemic. We know that the programs we've put forward, programs like the emergency business account, are supporting businesses, but the emergency rent approach, on which we've worked together with provinces, can also help significantly. We are seeing a significant number of landlords and tenants coming forward with this and taking this up. I would encourage landlords to use this program, which is supporting them. Of course, the suggestion from the member that provinces take action in restricting evictions is one that I've been speaking about to ministers of finance from the provinces over the course of the last couple of months. This is an area of provincial jurisdiction. We are supportive and working hard to make sure this program works.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Mr. Chair, this week marks the 31st anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre, and we are currently seeing repression of the democracy movement in Hong Kong. We know that Communist China oppresses minority groups and does not respect human rights. In spite of this knowledge, the Harper Conservative government signed a lopsided and anti-democratic investment treaty with China in 2012, the Canada-China FIPA. This Conservative deal gave Chinese state-owned corporations extraordinary powers to challenge our democratic decisions through a secretive private tribunal system. In the years since the FIPA was signed, with no vote in Parliament, Chinese state-owned corporations have been purchasing Canadian assets and resources. These corporations can seek financial compensation from Canadian taxpayers for the loss of potential profit when our laws and policies get in the way of their profit-taking. Can the government tell us whether any of these Chinese corporations has threatened to use the anti-democratic investor-state provisions of the FIPA to seek financial compensation from Canadian taxpayers?\n",
      "Hon. Franois-Philippe Champagne: As I'm sure the member will know, Canada is setting up with its allies around the world to protect the freedom and democracy that has been enjoyed by the people in Hong Kong. As he knows, we have issued a declaration with a number of allies we have called upon to make sure that measures remain in place to protect the freedom and liberty of the people of Hong Kong. We know that the one country, two systems treaty system has provided the framework under which the people of Hong Kong have been able to create an economy that is resilient and has made Hong Kong a place where people want to do business, commerce and trade. Mr. Chair, we have expressed our deep concern. I would refer the member to the joint statement we have issued with the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom. We have spoken with one voice and we have said we have deep concerns that the actions by Beijing, if they were to proceed with this national security law unilaterally, would undermine the bedrock of what has made Hong Kong, and that we will review the impact that\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Manly, you have about 45 seconds left. Go ahead; there's time for a short question.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: That was a trick question, because this anti-democratic agreement states that we wouldn't be able to have permission to disclose that information if there was, in fact, an investor-state dispute. Unlike NAFTA, which had a six-month period for renegotiation, the Harper Conservatives locked us into a 15-year agreement with the FIPA and this anti-democratic agreement. Will the government re-engage the special committee on Canada-China relations so we can do a thorough investigation of this Conservative sellout of Canadian democracy\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We are out of time, Mr. Manly. We'll go to the minister for a response.\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canada will always pursue trade in the interest of Canadians, and we are in the process of reviewing our FIPA agreements so those agreements can provide the right framework for Canadians to trade, with the interests of Canadians always top of mind.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to Ms. Ashton in ChurchillKeewatinook Aski. Ms. Ashton, go ahead with your question.\n",
      "Ms. Niki Ashton (ChurchillKeewatinook Aski, NDP): Mr. Chair, I'll be splitting my time with the member for Victoria. My question is to the Minister of Fisheries. This pandemic has hit Canadians hard. Import markets for our fish have dried up. This is devastating for inland fisheries. The season opened last week, and fishers are desperate for support. For indigenous fishers, fishing sustains their communities. It is their way of life. Will the government work with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation and inland fishers to develop and facilitate the delivery of an emergency package that works for them and find ways to redirect product to domestic markets, including communities facing food insecurity now?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, we've recognized how hard the pandemic has hit our fishers and our fishing sector. We've made available a number of different measures. One of the things we're doing primarily is the harvesters' benefit, which allows all harvesters to take advantage of a benefit as well as a grant contribution to help them get through. We're also changing EI so they can now qualify for their EI benefits based on previous seasons, not this one, recognizing they're going to face challenges this year. The Freshwater Fish Marketing Board is a Crown corporation. We know it's been a very difficult time for them. We are continuing to look at ways we can address the challenges within the industry and we'll continue to work with them to make sure we are addressing those needs.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Ashton, we have about one minute left. There's time for a short question. Go ahead.\nMs. Niki Ashton: My question is to the Minister of Transport. Canadians are being ripped off by airlines that are refusing to give passengers their money back. Airlines are profiting off Canadians during a very desperate time. This government has sat by while the Canadian Transportation Agency issued a statement to back up the airlines' appalling actions. What is this government doing to fix this? Why aren't they ensuring that public funds involve reimbursing passengers and an equity stake for Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, I certainly recognize the very difficult situation and the frustration of Canadians who would have preferred a refund. At the same time, at this point if airlines were required to immediately reimburse all the cancelled tickets, it would have a devastating effect on the airlines. That is why the Canadian Transportation Agency, which is an independent body, recommended that vouchers be issued and that they have a reasonable time to be usedtwo years. It is also very important to bear in mind that as we begin to exit this pandemic, we must still have an airline industry in this country.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Now we're going to the honourable member for Victoria, Ms. Collins. Please go ahead.\nMs. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Chair, in Victoria housing and homelessness were at a crisis point long before the pandemic hit, but now people are particularly vulnerable to COVID-19. If you don't have a place to live, you don't have the luxury of following public health advice and staying home. As part of the recovery, will this government be increasing funding to build or buy the housing needed to address homelessness?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, very early in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic, our government provided $157.5 million directly to 51 community entities to respond directly to the needs of homeless Canadians. We also provided $50 million in additional money to women's shelters. We are continuing with the national housing strategy. We are providing supports to communities and NGOs, as well as municipalities that are moving projects forward.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: Mr. Chair, the federal government allocated just $1.3 million in Reaching Home funds to my region. While the province has stepped up, it cost them $18.5 million to purchase just one hotel in Victoria. The federal funding is clearly inadequate. Is the government going to show some leadership and at least match the provincial funds?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we moved very quickly. The $157.5 million, I must note, was additional money on top of the base funding that we provide every year to address the needs of Canada's most vulnerable. In addition to that, our projects under the national housing strategy are continuing. We are providing leadership. We are trusting the community entities to make the decisions on where the funding goes and to respond in a way that meets the\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Collins, you have about 40 seconds left, which is time for a short question. Go ahead.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: The minister mentioned the national housing strategy. This government's national housing strategy reduces the level of targeted funding for lower-income households, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer. My question is simple: Coming out of the pandemic in the coming months, is the government going to increase housing funding to address the immediate need, yes or no?\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, I disagree with the honourable member. Our money is targeted to communities. They have community advisory boards that decide how to spend the money. If the NDP does not trust local communities to make decisions, they should say so.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I now invite the hon. member for Joliette, Mr.Ste-Marie, to take the floor. Go ahead, Mr.Ste-Marie.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Regardless of the COVID-19 pandemic, the last time I checked, we still had a democratic system and the government had to remain accountable. The government needs to present a picture of the economic situation and a picture of its overall emergency measures. Does the government intend to extend the measures over the summer? If so, how will it do so? The government must also present its working scenarios for the economic recovery. The government needs to be transparent. When will the government provide its economic update?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for his questions. I agree, it is very important to be transparent and to provide the necessary information to Canadians. Every day, we announce measures, of course, but also the cost of the measures and the amount of the investments. It is very important. The challenge at the moment is the economic situation, which is very fluid. When the situation is more stable, we will have the opportunity to give an economic update.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: In my opinion, Mr.Chair, it will really be too late to do the economic update when things are more stable. We have been asking for an economic update for the past month. Even the Parliamentary Budget Officer has been urging the government to table an economic update in a timely manner. With only three weeks left in the House before the summer, the clock is ticking. The Quebec government will table its economic update later this month. Will the federal government follow suit?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, let me confirm that we will continue to be transparent about the investments; it is very important. Of course, each day we work to make sure we have a solid grasp of the economic situation. As I said, when the situation is a little more stable, we will have the opportunity to explain our situation with an economic update.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Once again, Mr.Chair, when the situation is more stable, it will be too late to do an economic update; instead we will have to table a budget with the recovery in mind. Speaking of the recovery, the Parliamentary Budget Officer is surprised that the government is calling on the private sector for ideas for its recovery plan. Mr.Giroux points out that this government has thousands of public servants with very good ideas, and he adds that the government can also ask for the opposition parties' views. That would be a very good idea. Why is the government contracting out the development of its recovery plan to the private sector?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, I would like to tell the hon. member that it is important to listen to what we are trying to do, and to listen to people's ideas and opinions, not only in Parliament, but also from our society. So we keep listening. Of course, with our approach, we will address the economic recovery in a way that will ensure we can maintain our very strong position.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, we are still surprised that the government has contracted out its recovery plan to the private sector. The sooner the government tables its recovery plan, the better. Businesses and individuals would start gaining confidence in the economy again. It would help them to loosen the purse strings and be assured that there will be economic life after the pandemic. Again, that is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. Can the government tell us when it will table its recovery plan?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we feel it is very important to consider what we need to do in each phase of our recovery. At this time, it is necessary to consider the public health situation and the gradual reopening of our economy. That is why we feel our approach aims for a safe recovery. Obviously, by gathering more information in Phase3, we will be able to consider more than one approach to recovery.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Ste-Marie, you have about 30seconds left.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Thank you. I understand that the exact date for tabling the recovery plan may be difficult to determine at this time. Can the minister tell us whether he currently intends to table the recovery plan in a month ending in ber? If not, will it be before or after that?\nHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work with the provinces on an approach to determine the timing of the recovery, and we are also listening to our colleagues in Parliament, of course.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to the honourable member for Abbotsford, Mr. Fast.\n",
      "Hon. Ed Fast (Abbotsford, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister continues to pander to the Communist regime in China. We were shocked to hear that his own Minister of Digital Government used WeChat, a Chinese social media site, to raise funds to sue a Global News reporterfor what? It was for daring to expose China's attempt to hoard PPE during the COVID crisis. Is it the practice of the government to support lawsuits against Canadian reporters who challenge the hostile actions of the regime in China, and will the Prime Minister now condemn the actions of the digital government minister?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr. Chair, we value the important work of media across the country and the world. Attacking the integrity of hard-working journalists is not acceptable. As many members on all sides of the House know, WeChat is a social media platform used to engage and share information with the Chinese-Canadian community. Participation in this group, much like Facebook, is guided by posted guidelines and a disclaimer. In this case, the individual who violated the guidelines of the group is no longer a part of that group.\n",
      "Hon. Ed Fast: Mr. Chair, Canadians have no reason to trust the Prime Minister on anything to do with China, especially when it comes to trade policy. Two and a half years ago, the Prime Minister travelled to China to commence free trade negotiations, and the talks ended up in complete failure and embarrassment. Still the Prime Minister continues to cozy up to the Chinese regime, refusing to ban Huawei from our 5G network or to speak out convincingly against China's oppression in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, the two Michaels are continuing to languish in Chinese jails. This is the kind of partner the Prime Minister wants to negotiate a trade agreement with. Can the minister tell us whether at any time during the last six months the Prime Minister or anyone else in his government has had discussions with China about a free trade agreement? A simple yes or no will do.\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, as you know, Canada has a complex and multi-dimensional relationship with China. Canada will continue to engage with China with eyes wide open. Any work that we do on trade and on all matters will always be in the interests of Canadians first.\nHon. Ed Fast: I think Canadians will see that the minister didn't even answer a simple yes-or-no question, so I'll ask her a simpler yes-or-no question. Is she or anyone else in her government presently discussing or negotiating a free trade agreement with China, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, we will always do our work, including any discussions on trade and indeed all of our work, with the interests of Canadians and Canadian businesses as our absolute top priority.\nHon. Ed Fast: Again, there was no answer, so I'll try again. Will the minister now assure Canadians that she and the Prime Minister's government will not negotiate a free trade agreement with China, yes or no?\nHon. Mary Ng: Any work that we do will always be guided by the best interests of Canadians and Canadian businesses.\n",
      "Hon. Ed Fast: Mr. Chair, I am just flabbergasted. This minister has been asked three times if the government is negotiating a trade agreement. She refuses to answer, so I'll try again. Will the minister tell us why she thinks negotiating a trade agreement with a hostile country like China is in Canada's best interests?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, I thank the honourable member for the question. The answer is no.\n",
      "Hon. Ed Fast: Mr. Chair, I just want to make sure. Free trade is a good thing when it takes place between like-minded countries that embrace free market principles and apply the rule of law. China is not such a country. In fact, China repeatedly flouts international trade rules, illegally dumps underpriced goods into Canada, and prevents Canadian canola, beef and pork from entering China. Is has also jailed Canadians without due process. Will the minister now assure us that our government will not negotiate any free trade agreements with China, yes or no?\n"
    ],
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  {
    "id": 62,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The participants discussed the government's response to the coronavirus. Participants expressed concern over a variety of matters that ranged from welfare transfers to protecting small businesses. The Prime Minister was questioned on alleged fraud in the distribution of pandemic relief funds. The participants were also concerned about government handling of business loans during the pandemic and the lack of statistics around the pandemic. A lot of the meeting's attention was paid to seasonal industries, like tourism and fishing, which had been served a major blow by the pandemic. Some participants also expressed concern about the distribution of funds and resources to vulnerable populations, like students and the elderly. Aside from the pandemic, some participants were concerned about the impact of recent gun control legislation.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the seventh meeting of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will proceed to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements. That's confirmed. We will now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. Once the petition is presented, the member is asked to bring it here to the Table. Mr.Manly is the first one to be allowed to present a petition.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I rise today to present a petition that has many signatures from constituents in NanaimoLadysmith. They're calling for a ban on cosmetic testing using animals. They want us to follow the European Union model, under which the use of animals in cosmetic testing has been banned. Moving forward, they're calling for a ban on the sale and manufacture of animal-tested cosmetics and their ingredients in Canada.\nThe Chair: Mr. Poilievre is next.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I rise today to table e-petition 2466, initiated by a constituent of mine in Stittsville, a beautiful west Ottawa community. The petition has collected 827 signatures from every province and territory. It was collected by Cara, a mother from my riding who suffered an unthinkable tragedy. Her 11-year-old son Joshua drowned in a boating accident on the St. Lawrence River at Rockport, Ontario. Joshua was not wearing a life jacket. Worse, Cara's family had to wait 48 days to recover Joshua's body. Cara is now working tirelessly to amend the small vessel regulations to make it mandatory for children under the age of 14 to wear a life jacket or PFD while they are passengers in or drivers of small vessels covered under parts 2, 3, and 4 of the regulations. I support Cara's efforts, and I'm honoured to table this petition on her behalf.\n",
      "The Chair: Seeing no further petitions to be presented, we'll continue, and we will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. Go ahead, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): It was revealed yesterday that this government's policy was to ignore fraud. The Prime Minister's reaction was to act as if everything was normal. In fact, we've learned that over 200,000cases of suspected fraud have been identified in the benefit applications. The Prime Minister is failing our future generations. Our children and grandchildren are going to pay back billions of dollars that he's borrowing to pay tax cheats. Will the Prime Minister protect taxpayers and immediately begin a review of these 200,000cases of suspected fraud?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Our priority was to get money out quickly to all Canadians who needed it, and that's exactly what we've done. Millions of Canadians have received the money they so desperately needed. Having said that, I want to make it very clear, Mr.Chair: Fraud is unacceptable. We have measures in place to detect fraud. All fraudsters will be required to pay back the money they fraudulently received from the government. We're going to make sure that this is done in the coming months.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, Conservatives agree that those who need help should get it, and no one is arguing that they shouldn't, but reports indicate that the Liberals have ordered public servants to turn a blind eye to 200,000 cases of suspected fraud. It's a simple question: Yes or no, did the government instruct any government department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the priority in this situation was getting money out to the millions of Canadians who needed it as quickly as possible, but of course fraud is unacceptable. That's why we have put safeguards in place to ensure that anyone who received that money fraudulently will have to repay it.\nHon. Andrew Scheer: It's a yes-or-no question, Mr. Chair. Did the government give any kind of instruction to public servants in any department to ignore red flags or warnings of fraudulent cases, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The instruction to government officials was to get money out to those who needed it as quickly as possible. We have put measures in place to detect fraud. People who got this money fraudulently will have to repay.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it is clear that he can't answer a yes-or-no question, so we can all assume what the answer must be. In other situations, the government is saying no to people. It's letting so many Canadians down. Small business owners who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number or a business account are ineligible for the government supports. Individuals, owner-operators, and those who are earning $1 more than $1,000 are being told that they don't qualify for the emergency response benefits. Meanwhile, fraudsters are getting them. Does the Prime Minister think it's fair to tell people who are following all the rules no, while telling government officials to allow fraudulent cases to be processed?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, Canadians well know that this is an unprecedented situation, one in which we had to get help to as many Canadians as possible as quickly as possible. That is exactly what we did. We continue to work very hard to fill gaps for people who should get money but haven't been able to, and, as I said, we have strong measures to counter fraud. Anyone who got this money fraudulently will have to repay it.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, when these programs were first designed, the Prime Minister said that he acknowledged that there were problems and that they would be fixed later. Well, here we are in May, and hundreds of thousands of Canadians are being told no for purely technical and bureaucratic reasons. Will the Prime Minister make the simple changes to allow business owners who don't happen to have a business bank account, who don't happen to have a CRA payroll number and individuals who are ineligible for the emergency response benefit because they've been paid by family members through dividends to qualify, or is he going to continue to let hundreds of thousands of Canadians down during this pandemic?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, from the beginning of this pandemic, we moved extremely rapidly to get help and support to millions of Canadians. That was the priority, and that's what we've been doing for the past two months. As we've said, we will continue to tweak and improve the programs to make sure that more people who need help will get it. We are working the best we can, as fast as we can, to help those millions of Canadians who need support.\nThe Chair: You have time for about a 15-second question, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister indicated that he would support Taiwan's inclusion in the WHO only as a non-state observer. Of course, that designation does not exist. Participants of the WHO are either states or NGOs. Will the Prime Minister support Taiwan's participation as a state observer?\nThe Chair: The Right Honourable Prime Minister has 15 seconds or less, please.\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we will continue with our one China policy, but we have always advocated Taiwan's meaningful inclusion in international bodies where it makes sense to do so, and that includes at the WHO.\nThe Chair: Mr.Blanchet now has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you very much, Mr.Chair. On Friday, students in Quebec and Canada will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit, which is a good thing. This program was necessary, particularly because the number of students who won't be able to get back their jobs from last year is much higher than the number of jobs that might be available to these young people. There are also issues of duration. We don't know how long these jobs will remain unavailable. People talked about a risk to being in the labour market and meeting the needs of the labour market. On April29, the Deputy Prime Minister made a formal commitment to ensure that these programs are accompanied by work incentives for youth and all CESB recipients. So that everyone knows what they're getting into, I'd like to know whether the employment incentives that will accompany the Canada emergency response benefit will be known by Friday.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I thank the hon. member for understanding the importance of supporting students who, for the most part, won't be able to get the summer jobs they were counting on. Young people don't just want to earn money; they also want to gain work experience. That's why we're setting up programs, including Canada summer jobs, but also another program with 76,000new jobs for young people in important sectors, so that young people can also get jobs. We will continue to work with youth and employers to ensure that gaps in the labour market are addressed, while ensuring that youth are well-supported.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: That's very interesting, but it doesn't answer my question at all. People in the fishing, tourism and agricultural sectors, as well as municipalities and, from the very beginning, of course, the Government of Quebec, more generally, have expressed fears that job gains will cause people to lose their benefits and discourage them from going to work. The only way to avoid that is to ensure that people keep more money as they work more. That is the principle. In fact, we propose that over the $1,000no-penalty limit, half of the earnings be exempt from penalty. Is this something that could be considered? Since it's been two weeks since the commitment was made and it's urgent, can we act now? The emergency shouldn't last eight months.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, young people need money, but they also need work experience. This is an unprecedented situation, which is why we're working with seasonal industries and the different regions to make sure they have a sufficient workforce in their situation. Students can be part of it, but at the same time we must provide the necessary support for those who can't find a job. That's why we continue to work with the industries involved to ensure that they have a sufficient workforce while we support students.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Unfortunately, the spirit of it doesn't seem to have been understood. I doubt that, even in the best-case scenario, the government will be able to get all the jobs needed in a timely manner for all these young people to decide to go ahead. So, first of all, there will be a shortage of jobs. Second, people aren't crazy. If they earn less by working than they earn by not working, all the good faith in the world won't solve the problem. Can we make sure that people keep more money in their pockets as they work more? I think we can have a clear answer, given the timeframe. People are going to start registering for the program on Friday. The principles are good, but a clear answer would be good too.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Beginning Friday, students will be able to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit. When they apply, they'll all be directed to a job bank that we've set up to make sure they know what jobs are available to get not only the money they need, but also the experience they need for their future, while helping our society in this crisis. I know we're going to be able to count on young people.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, one of the most devastating outcomes of this COVID-19 crisis has been the impact on seniors. Eighty per cent or more of the deaths during COVID-19 have been seniors living in long-term care homes. The military had to be called in. Out of 14 countries, Canada has been deemed the worst in its care of seniors. Despite all this, the Prime Minister has said recently that he doesn't feel it's the federal government's responsibility to find a solution. How can he say to families reeling with loss that it's not the federal government's responsibility to play a role in solving this problem?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, perhaps the fact that the NDP no longer has many seats in Quebec has caused it to forget the importance of respecting the Constitution and the areas of jurisdiction of provincial versus federal governments. We will be there to work with the provinces as they deal with challenges in their long-term care facilities. We are there as a partner, but we, on this side of the House, will always respect the jurisdiction of the provinces and be there to support them in fulfilling those responsibilities.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Everyone across Canada has just heard this Prime Minister double down on the idea that he doesn't feel it's his responsibility, despite the fact that the Canadian military had to go into long-term care homes. There is a role that the federal government can play. Both Liberal and Conservative federal governments have been consistently, for decades, cutting transfers to health care. They can increase those transfers to ensure long-term care is adequately funded. We could also ensure that there's a national care guarantee, working with provinces to ensure that we are meeting the best standards. We could increase workers' pay. We could ensure that there's no more profiting off the backs of seniors when it comes to long-term care. Will the Prime Minister commit to some of these care guarantees?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: It will come as exactly no surprise to the vast majority of Canadians that the Liberal Party will always stand up for the Constitution of Canada. We respect the Constitution. We respect areas of provincial jurisdiction. As I have said from the very beginning of this crisis, we will be there to help the provinces as they manage the challenges they're facing. The federal government does have a role to play, and it is a role to support the provinces in doing the things they need to do during this unprecedented time. We will continue to be there.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I am glad to hear the Prime Minister is no longer trying to hide behind jurisdiction. We know that in long-term care homes, the for-profit long-term care homes have been the site of the worst conditions, where the greatest number of seniors have died. Will the Prime Minister join us in committing to remove profit from the long-term care system? Vulnerable seniors should not be subject to the profits of a company willing to cut services, staffing and quality of care instead of ensuring that seniors get the best care possible.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I think it has become clear for all Canadians that we need to improve the care offered to our seniors right across the country. We cannot look at these numbers we are seeing and these tragedies hitting so many families and not want to see us as a country do better. That is why we of course recognize that we will work with other orders of government, particularly the provinces in whose jurisdiction this area rests primarily, to support answering these questions for the long term on how we improve the way Canada supports our elders. This is something really important that we will be there for.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: At the CHSLD Herron in Dorval, 31seniors died in one month. The residents were left without food, dehydrated and without care, and those with COVID-19 symptoms were not isolated from the others. Families pay between $3,000 and $10,000 a month for their loved ones to be at the centre. How can the Prime Minister think that he doesn't have a role to play in finding a solution to this devastating problem?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, all Quebeckers and even all Canadians were stunned to learn of the tragedy at the Dorval CHSLD. We were very happy, as citizens, when the Government of Quebec reacted firmly and asked many questions in connection with this situation. We will support the Government of Quebec in its efforts to find answers and, most importantly, to ensure that, in the long term, the country will better support seniors in all regions.\nThe Chair: We'll continue with Mr.Poilievre.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: Mr. Chair, how many emergency response benefit cheques have been sent to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to start by quickly saying that a total of 7.7million Canadians have received the Canada emergency response benefit, which is absolutely essential for\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: How many emergency response benefits have been sent out to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, I see that the pace will allow me to give a little bit of information for each question. As we said at the outset, there will be mechanisms\nThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: We're working very hard.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: How many?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: We're working very hard to ensure the integrity of the mechanism while at the same time taking important steps to help Canadians.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: How many emergency response benefit cheques have been sent to people whose applications have been flagged as fraudulent?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: A total of 7.7million Canadians have received the Canada emergency response benefit, and the agency is ensuring the integrity of the system.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: He's now claiming that it's all 7.7 million? That's crazy. The department is reported to have given out 200,000. Is 200,000 the correct number of cheques that have been sent out to people whose applications have been red-flagged as fraudulent, yes or no?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, I'm pleased to use the opportunity given to me by the hon. member to make the following clarifications. I thank him for it. First, approximately 7.7million Canadians have received at least one payment. Second, almost 11million payments have been made.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How many prisoners have received a Canada emergency response benefit cheque?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: This allows me to go even further and thank the hon. member again. Some 7.7million Canadians have received emergency assistance in an emergency situation\nThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: So now he's claiming that 7 million Canadians are in jail? The question was this: How many prisoners have received a benefit cheque?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, jokes can be made about the plight of Canadians who are suffering tremendously in this crisis, but I'm not here to make\nThe Chair: Mr.Poilievre has the floor.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: Even the CBC is saying that prisoners are receiving the cheque. They can't have lost their jobs. They were already in prison. It's a simple question: How many prisoners have received the cheques?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I'd like to remind hon. members that we're talking about an extremely serious situation, a situation that has called into question people's ability to make ends meet, a situation that required emergency measures. We're going to continue to do the job that Canadians expect.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: The question was, how many prisoners have received the cheques?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I've already explained to the hon. memberand I'm pleased to remind himthat this benefit is an emergency measure.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: The Auditor General says that he's dropping half of his audits because the government refuses to provide him with funding. If the government has enough money to send 200,000 fraudulent applicants emergency cheques, why won't the government give the Auditor General the funding he requested?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I thank the hon. member. It gives me the opportunity, in this emergency situation, to talk about the role of institutions, including that of the Auditor General, which we will continue to support because it helps us do things right.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Then what does the Auditor General have to do to get the money to do his audits? Does he have to file a bunch of fraudulent applications for an emergency response benefit?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, because I know the hon. member well enough, I'm sure that he isn't givingand doesn't want to givethe impression that the Auditor General wants to commit fraud to do his job properly.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: I agree, and that's why he should get the money he needs to do his job. He did twice as many audits under the previous government as he is doing now, but he doesn't have the money to do the audits he needs to do to keep an eye on this government's extraordinary spending. Yes or no, will the government give the Auditor General the funding he has requested so he can get back to doing the same number of audits he did under the much more robust funding of the previous Harper government?\nThe Chair: The hon. Prime Minister.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the previous government cut funding to the Auditor General and caused the office to lay off dozens of employees. We increased the funding for the Auditor General. We recognize the important work the Auditor General needs to do, and that's why we increased the funding for the Auditor General. The party of the member opposite cut this funding.\nThe Chair: I appreciate the help from some of the members in keeping time. I do have my own chronograph here, so I'll take care of it from this end, but I appreciate the help. Thank you. I now give the floor to Mr.Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr.Chair, I fully agree with the Treasury Board President that we aren't here to make jokes, but to set the record straight for Canadians. Yesterday, the National Post reported on the front page that 200,000people had fraudulently used emergency assistance. Is that statement accurate, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member from my region. A few minutes ago, I was reminding people in my region that, in the greater Quebec City area, about 200,000people had received this emergency benefit and that it was not for fraudulent reasons, but because they really needed it.\nMr. Grard Deltell: The question is about fraudsters, and I know that there aren't many of them in Quebec City. That said, my question is very simple. I want to know whether or not 200,000people fraudulently used emergency assistance.\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I know my colleague already knows this, but we announced at the outset that strong and rigorous mechanisms would be put in place quickly to ensure that this delivery would respect the importance of integrity in government.\nMr. Grard Deltell: The integrity of the government must be upheld, and this must be done by telling the truth. Yesterday, the National Post reported on the front page about 200,000fraudsters. Is that correct, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: To set the record straight, the Minister of National Revenue, Ms.Lebouthillier, made it very clear that there was no tolerance for fraud in this system, that all mechanisms would be put in place to ensure that integrity would be respected.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: The Treasury Board President is one of the few Canadians to find that Ms.Lebouthillier was very clear yesterday. With respect to the Minister of National Revenue, I would point out that the member for RichmondArthabaska asked her a very clear question yesterday, which she was unable to answer. What does a person who has received the full CERB, $2,000, and returns to work this week have to do? Do they have to pay back the amount they aren't entitled to? Do they keep the$2,000? Do they have to wait and include it on their next year's tax return? Which of these three options should the person choose?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I thank the hon. member for his question, which is very relevant. In fact, that person must contact Service Canada or the Canada Revenue Agency, depending on the system under which he or she received this benefit, and ensure that, in the circumstances that apply to him or her, the decisions and actions taken are appropriate.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: It's too bad, Mr.Chair, because it's the boss who is in front of me, here in committee. It's good that the citizen calls the public servant, but the public servant's boss is the Treasury Board President. Can he give a clear indication to citizens? What should they do now with the emergency assistance they received with this month's benefit? Should they keep it in full or pay it back now? I'd like a clear answer, please.\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Again, I recognize the importance of insisting on clarity. What's clear here is that each person must make decisions based on his or her own circumstances, and the responsible way to act is to interact with public servants at Service Canada or the Canada Revenue Agency.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Service Canada employees must have clear instructions from their boss. The boss is here. This is the President of the Treasury Board. Could the President of the Treasury Board, in very clear terms, tell the employees answering questions from Canadians what they have to say to those currently receiving the Canada emergency response benefit, but who are actually at work? These are honest people. They are not fraudsters. They want to comply with the law. Can the President of the Treasury Board give them clear instructions?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: That is extraordinary, because my colleague focused on two key terms: honesty and hard work. In terms of the honesty of Canadians, in all cases, I am convinced that they will contact the appropriate officials. As for the hard work of those officials, they know what they have to do and they have been doing it in an exemplary way since the crisis began.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: And yet those good officials, whom I frequently commend on social media for their excellent work, have no clear instructions from their boss. Mr.President, let me go back to the basic question. The National Post said that 200,000Canadians have used the emergency assistance fraudulently, to the tune of $1.6billion. Is that the case, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I am sure that the honourable member is not questioning the ability of Canada Revenue Agency officers to follow the very clear directive of ensuring that the mechanisms reflect the importance of maintaining the integrity of the Government of Canada during the exceptional circumstances we are experiencing.\nThe Chair: We'll now go on to Ms. Gray.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray (KelownaLake Country, CPC): Mr. Chair, last week British Columbia unveiled its plan to begin reopening its economy. I've been speaking with many business owners and business associations in my riding, and I'm hearing that they're not getting their orders for cleaning supplies. Some businesses have said their back orders go back to March. They do not know how they can possibly reopen if they are not meeting health cleaning standards or accessing PPE for their employees and customers. They are well aware of the issues arising from this government's reliance on Chinese manufacturing rather than building capacity here. What is the government doing to address these issues and ensure wholesale supply companies get products now so that they can distribute them to the businesses that need them?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand (Oakville, Lib.): Mr. Chair, our government is rapidly and aggressively buying life-saving equipment that Canada needs from a diverse range of suppliers. We are building up domestic capacity as well as procuring internationally. Our priority is to make sure front-line health care workers have the support they need. In terms of other areas of the economy, we are working with our federal and provincial counterparts to make sure that we can do so in collaboration with them.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, an ongoing concern I've heard from small business owners is that they are ineligible for CEBA because they don't have a business account. When I brought up this point to small business minister Ng at committee, she said it was the first time that she had heard of this issue and that she would follow up. I asked this question on April 23, and it's now been almost three weeks. Small business has been let down. Can the government confirm that they're going to fix this issue?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains (MississaugaMalton, Lib.): Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for her question. It is really important that this program that we've established help small businesses. We have shown in the past that we're very flexible and nimble in accommodating the needs of businesses. I assure the member opposite that we are looking into this matter and will come forward with a resolution in a timely manner.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, I just read another email from a small business owner this morning who has been let down by the government. He chose to pay off debts instead of paying himself a wage; therefore, he's ineligible for CEBA, for that loan. Owner-operators have been eliminated from participating in government programs because they did not put themselves on the payroll. This shows a true lack of understanding of small businesses and especially of owner-operators. Will the government commit to fixing this issue?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Thank you very much. Again, I want to thank the honourable member for her question. We have focused particularly on small businesses to make sure they have the appropriate support they need. With regard to the program that she highlighted, we have shown flexibility in the eligibility criteria by decreasing the payroll threshold for individual companies that want to apply for this loan to $20,000 versus $50,000, and the upper limit has gone to $1.5 million versus $1 million. We will continue to bring forward the changes necessary to have more businesses\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: This government has left Canadian craft breweries out to dry, like the hops in their beer. On April 24, the Canadian Craft Brewers Association released a report on the effects of COVID-19 on the Canadian craft brewing industry. The report states that 38% of craft brewers did not qualify for the Canadian emergency wage subsidy in March, and 53% were either not sure or predicted that they would not qualify in April. Many a brew pub, like BNA in my riding, due to higher payrolls are also not eligible for the CEBA loan. They have been left out and let down. Five per cent of these breweries have already closed permanently, and others are on the verge of doing so. A portion have stepped up and are making PPE. Will this government take the initiative to support this industry by amending program requirements?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: When it comes to the Canada emergency wage subsidy, we have demonstrated flexibility and nimbleness. The program requirement changed in terms of revenue threshold. We originally had 30% for the month of March. We changed that to 15%. The eligibility criteria to compare to the first two months of this year now also compare to the previous year as well. We're going to continue to make changes to make sure more businesses can access this program.\nThe Chair: Ms. Gray, you have 33 seconds.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: In my constituency, Okanagan fruit production is a huge industry, and many apple orchardists have brought concerns to me regarding high costs, apples from last season selling below cost, the CUSMA agreement not helping the industy, and low-priced Washington apples flooding our market. COVID-19 has exacerbated their dire financial situation. The BC Fruit Growers' Association has called the government announcements of measures for agriculture underwhelming. I questioned Minister Bibeau in the House a couple of months ago, and at the time she did not have an answer. What is the plan to help our orchardists?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (ComptonStanstead, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Since this crisis began, we have been helping entrepreneurs in all sectors. We began with measures to assist small, medium and large companies, and we are now going progressively sector by sector. Last week, we announced additional funding for agriculture\nThe Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Barlow.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC): Mr. Chair, in my riding of Foothills, we've established a Foothills business recovery task force. We surveyed hundreds of small business owners about the effectiveness of the emergency programs put forward by the government. The results of that survey were quite alarming. More than half of the respondents have not qualified for any of the programs, and the vast majority of them have said their businesses will not last more than another month. Will the government expand the eligibility for some of these programs to include sole proprietorships, or is the government still looking at refunding the GST paid by some of the businesses over the last year?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, I want to highlight the fact that we have issued 590,000 loans through the CEBA account. This demonstrates that this particular program is working and that businesses are taking advantage of it. We recognize that we want to be more generous and more thoughtful about these programs. We've demonstrated flexibility in the past and we will continue to be nimble going forward.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, to the Minister of Agriculture, Dr. Charlebois said that we are on the precipice of losing 15% of our farms and that 30,000 farm families are at risk of bankruptcy. This will have a devastating effect on our rural economies. Does the minister know the impact that losing 30,000 family farms will have on our food security and the price of groceries on the store shelves?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, the agriculture and agri-food sector is extremely important. We have clearly stated that it is an essential service. That is why we have risk management programs that are already well established. I understand that producers would like the programs to be more generous, and we are ready to do more, but they first need to use those programs. They have $1.6billion available\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, business risk management programs don't apply to every single stakeholder and the programs are not working for the producers. There is a bottleneck right now in our processing capacity. When the minister renounced the AgriRecovery program, funds were set aside for cattle and pork producers. When is that money going to be available, and how long will it last?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: We are talking about two different programs here. We added $77.5million to the program helping the processing sector and $50million on two occasions for our pork and beef producers under the AgriRecovery program. Once again, that is additional money. In recent years, an average of $15million have gone out of this program, whereas this year\nThe Chair: Mr. Barlow.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, it is not new money; it has been budgeted year after year and it's budgeted again for next year. The cattlemen said that the set-aside funds that the minister is talking about are already gone and did not last even two weeks. If this government isn't assisting Canadian farmers, is the government's food policy to rely on food imported from foreign countries to feed Canadian families ?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, the fund to assist our beef producers cannot have already disappeared because the criteria will be unveiled in the coming days. I can assure you that we are working as efficiently as possible so that the program can be rolled out and the money can be channelled to our beef and pork producers.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, producers across this country have said that an exemption from the carbon tax would help them greatly during this pandemic. When I asked the minister about any data that was available for the impact the carbon tax had on agriculture, the answer I got was that this information was secret. Yesterday at committee, the minister said that this was a mistake and that this information has been public. My staff and I looked everywhere last night, as did journalists, and that information could not be found. Is that information actually available?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Yes, Mr.Chair, that information is available and public. I will happily pass the information on to my colleague.\nMr. John Barlow: If that data is available, then the minister must know the financial impacts that the carbon tax has on Canadian farmers. With the information that the minister apparently has, does she agree with the Prime Minister that Canadian farmers are much better off financially by paying the carbon tax?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Each organization analyzes different assumptions, methodologies and geographic areas, so the results give a broad range of estimated impacts. According to the organization that has provided information, in 2019, the estimated impacts of a $20-per-tonne price on pollution due to grain drying ranged\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Barlow. You have 30 seconds, please.\nMr. John Barlow: Does the minister agree with the Prime Minister that farmers are financially better off paying the carbon tax?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, the price on pollution is an extremely important measure for our economy in general and for our transition to a greener economy. We have already provided various exemptions to the agriculture sector: for gasoline, for the access card and for the greenhouse sector.\nThe Chair: The next question goes to Mr. Kelly.\nMr. Pat Kelly (Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC): Will the government fully fund the Office of the Auditor General?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The answer is that we have done that in 2018 and 2019, and the Prime Minister\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Mr. Chair, I hope the minister would not want to mislead the House. The office is certainly not fully funded, as per the testimony we heard yesterday at the finance committee. This government has expanded the Auditor General's responsibilities without adequate resources. When will the government fully fund the Auditor General?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: To continue my answer, and as the Prime Minister said just a moment ago, that has led to the hiring of 38 new staff members. That's great to hear, because they are doing even better than they used to before we came into power.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: No previous auditor general in Canadian history has ever had to tell a parliamentary committee that they had insufficient funds to do their job. That is what in fact this Auditor General has done. When will the government fully fund the Office of the Auditor General?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: I'm glad again to be given the ability to say how important the work of the Auditor General is. We believe very much in that role. That's why we increased the funding that is necessary for that office to do its important job. We will keep working hard with the Auditor General.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Sadly, Michael Ferguson passed away in 2019, yet the government has refused to name a permanent replacement. Why?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr. Chair, this is another wonderful opportunity to remind all members of this House of the importance of these institutions. When we face these tragic deaths, we of course are very sad of the passing of the people, and we work\nThe Chair: Go ahead, Mr. Kelly.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Yesterday the Parliamentary Budget Officer said that Canada's debt could reach $1 trillion this year. What will it cost to service a $1-trillion debt?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, we remain committed to doing, as we've said, whatever it takes to support Canadians through this challenging time. We think this is extremely important, and we will continue to focus on the well-being of all Canadians.\nMr. Pat Kelly: What is the estimated annual debt servicing cost of the aid measures announced so far?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, there will be an opportunity for us to give a full outline of the costs and benefits of our measures, and we will do that when we have the ability to have\nThe Chair: Mr. Kelly.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly:  is Canada's AAA credit rating.\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Speaker, Canada came into this crisis with a very strong fiscal position, and of course we will experience challenges as we move forward, but we believe that we should experience those challenges as we support Canadians.\nMr. Pat Kelly: What would the effect of a downgrade be on Canada's debt servicing costs?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we will continue to focus on how we can support Canadians and Canadian businesses as we get through this challenge.\nMr. Pat Kelly: How many private sector bank loans have been funded for small and medium-sized businesses under the business credit availability program?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, as the information on the business credit availability program becomes available, we are being fully transparent with the finance committee and with this House.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Does the minister know how many loans have been funded under that program?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I'm not in the habit of memorizing every single number available to us, but what I can confirm is that we will be transparent with this House on the numbers as they become available.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Does the minister know the dollar amount or the approximate dollar amount so far lent and guaranteed by Export Development Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, one number that would probably be helpful for people to understand is that we've now had over 550,000 approved loans under the CEBA program, representing over 20 billion dollars' worth of money that's actually\nThe Chair: Mr. Kelly.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Will the government fix the CEBA program to include businesses that pay owner-operators through dividends?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I think the language fix is incorrect, for more than 500,000 businesses have received this loan. Of course, we are always endeavouring to make sure it works for as many businesses as possible.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Will the government fix CEBA to cover small businesses that hire day labourers or subcontractors?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\nHon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, again we've demonstrated flexibility and nimbleness when it comes to this program. We changed the eligibility criteria to make sure that more businesses can apply and be eligible for this program. We will endeavour to make sure that more Canadians have access to this program, particularly small businesses in rural and remote communities.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Will the government fix CEBA to cover business owners who use personal instead of business chequing accounts to operate their business?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Again, Mr. Chair, I want to highlight the fact that this has been a very positive program and well received by many small businesses. Over 590,000 small business loans have been issued, and that's a testament to the design of the program. We're going to make sure we continue to engage with small businesses.\nThe Chair: The next question goes to Mr. Chong.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong (WellingtonHalton Hills, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Last week, on Friday, Statistics Canada was to release labour force survey data at 8:30 a.m. eastern time, one of the most important and market-moving indicators of the month, but someone in the government leaked that information ahead of time, almost 45 minutes ahead of time, and exclusively to Bloomberg terminal users on Wall Street and on Bay Street, who pay thousands of dollars a month for those terminals. Moving markets, the Canadian dollar moved eight basis points in that short period of time and billions were made or lost on the market. Section 34 of the Statistics Act makes it a criminal offence for someone to leak information that might influence stock, bond or currency markets. Has the government notified the RCMP about what appears to be a criminal breach of the Statistics Act?\n",
      "The Chair: The honourable minister.\nHon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for his question. I, too, share the same concerns that he's highlighted with regard to this leak. This is completely unacceptable. That is why we're going to make sure that a proper and thorough examination is done, and going forward we want to make sure that no such breach or leak occurs.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong: Mr. Chair, Statistics Canada said that staffers and ministers' offices, including the Prime Minister's office, the finance minister's office, the employment minister's office and the industry minister's office, would have received this secret information no earlier than 2 p.m. the previous day. Statistics Canada has also indicated that it has begun an internal investigation. Will the minister commit to fully co-operating with this investigation?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I'd like to remind the honourable colleague that our government has supported Statistics Canada. We're the ones who reintroduced the mandatory long-form census. We're the ones who funded more money for Statistics Canada. The member opposite knows that we'll be fully co-operative in any such investigation into any leak.\nHon. Michael Chong: Will the minister commit to making the results of this investigation public?\nHon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, the member opposite knows full well that there are proper processes and protocols in place when it comes to such sensitive matters, and we will ensure that those processes and protocols\nThe Chair: Mr. Chong.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong: Mr. Chair, I hope there is no double standard for ministers' offices and the public service, because it was only about 13 years ago that a public servant was criminally charged and convicted for using top secret information in the markets. I hope that in this investigation, and in the release of the information concerning this investigation, ministers' staffers aren't held to a different standard than the public service has been held to. This leak speaks to the integrity of the government. Intelligence at the Five Eyes.... Our four allies have been telling us for years that one of the top two or three threats that democracies are facing is declining public confidence in our key institutions. Democracies have been blindsided by misinformation, disinformation and cyber-attacks, and now we are being blindsided by the misuse of information by this very government. That doesn't even.... The government's own national statistics-gathering agency doesn't trust this cabinet or this government, and that's why they announced several days ago that they would suspend the pre-release of information to the cabinet. What is the government going to do to restore public confidence in our institutions?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, our government has remained steadfast in its support for Statistics Canada. I'd like to remind my honourable colleague that we are the government that brought forward legislation to strengthen the independence of Statistics Canada. We're the government that brought forward measures to make sure they have additional monies for conducting the proper mandatory long-form census as well. When it comes to the leak that the member opposite is talking about, we're not going to prejudge the outcome. We have been very clear that the proper processes and protocols that are in place will be followed.\nThe Chair: You have time for a very brief question, Mr. Chong.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong: Mr. Chair, I hope the government will call the RCMP and notify them about what appears to be a criminal breach of the Statistics Act, because it was a previous Liberal minister who himself was subject to a lot of misinformation and was a target of improper allegations about his office's use of information that leaked about the income trust changes that the previous Liberal government had brought in. The RCMP began an investigation and, in the course of the investigation, they charged a public servant who was ultimately convicted of breaching that secret information. I hope the minister holds his office and the offices of his cabinet colleagues to the same standard, calls in the RCMP and makes them aware of what appears to be a criminal breach of the Statistics Act.\n",
      "The Chair: The honourable minister, in 30 seconds or less, please.\nHon. Navdeep Bains: I'm sorry. How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?\nThe Chair: We're over the time, but I'm allowing 30 seconds so we can get a full\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I appreciate that very much. Again, I want to take this opportunity to say that leaks of this nature are completely unacceptable. We've been very clear that we are going to take the appropriate steps. Statistics Canada is taking the appropriate steps. I want to remind the member opposite that we're not going to prejudge any outcome at this stage. Again, it is our government that has been consistently supporting Statistics Canada in its work through the previous years.\n",
      "The Chair: Thank you. We'll take a short break to allow our console operators to switch in a healthy way. While we're doing that, I'm going to mention something. It happens at the end of a question. When there's less than a minute left and the question goes over half the time left over, I'll just indicate to the person asking the question that we've reached the limit so that the other side can answer with the same amount of time and we have a fair playing field. We're ready to go again. The Honourable Member for BeloeilChambly has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Thank you, Mr.Chair. We are making progress, but unfortunately, I'd like to hear it in French as well. I will address my question to the Prime Minister. First, let me remind you that, on March12, the government announced a first series of measures of about $1billion to adapt to what was at the time the beginning of the coronavirus crisis, including $500million in transfers to the provinces, with about $100million going to Quebec. Since that time, the commitments from the government have reached very probably around $300billion, making those first $500 million pale by comparison. Of course, the crisis became longer and it is not over yet. In that context, and given what I heard the Prime Minister say a little earlier about respecting the areas of jurisdiction of the provinces, and of Quebec, can we expect a speedy increase in health transfers to Quebec and the provinces, an increase that would be permanent, and, of course, without conditions?\n",
      "The Chair: The honourable minister has the floor.\nHon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): Thank you, Mr.Chair. We've increased health transfers to provinces and territories significantly since we first came into government in 2015. We continue to work with provinces and territories on a regular basis to make sure they're supported not just in the outbreak of this pandemic, but in the increased cost overall to health care across the country. Our investments have included investments for mental health, for home care and for the additional expenses that provinces and territories face as a result of an aging population. We'll continue to work with provinces and territories to ensure those health care needs are met.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: With all respect, Mr.Chair, that is a little disappointing. While the leader of the NDP wants the federal government to interfere massively in provincial jurisdiction over health, the Prime Minister replies in English. That is perfectly legitimate in this Parliament, but his reply in English is, no, the government absolutely respects provincial jurisdiction. That made me happy for a brief moment, and I am asking the Prime Minister, without wanting to interrupt his precious reading, to please repeat in French was he said just now in English, that he absolutely respects provincial jurisdiction over health, which is exclusive. So could you please provide that music to my ears?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, just as I respect the member opposite's right to speak in his first language, I hope that he understands that I am trying to learn our second official language in a high-pressure situation, and it often creates anxiety. I will tell him, though, that we fully respect the jurisdiction of provinces and territories to address the needs of their constituents and their members, and we work very closely with Quebec and with all provinces and territories to make sure that the funds we transfer from the federal government can be utilized in a way that best meets the needs of their constituents.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Let's not get into that. It says to me that French is the second official language. Well, it's my first official language and it's the first one in Quebec. I would like to have heard that in French. I would like to have heard it from the Prime Minister, because it's a constitutional issue. Basically, you could say that it's our heritage. So that is what I would like to have heard. Let me proceed with a short and simple question: is health in the exclusive jurisdiction of the provinces in the current crisis management situation?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): Mr.Chair, I would like to tell my colleague that we have no first or second official language. We have two official languages. They have the same value and the same importance. They deserve the same respect in the House and in the institutions of the government. We are always happy to collaborate with the provinces and to respect their jurisdictions.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Hearing that we have no first or second official language is better already. Between friends, let's say that they are equal. Let us take it one step further: is health in the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, we live in a federation where we work closely together with provinces and territories so that we can reach our mutually important goals, one of which is that all citizens of Canada, all members of Canada, have access to a public health care system that meets their needs. We continue to work within the constitutional framework\nThe Chair: Excuse me, but I have to interrupt you. Mr.Blanchet, you have 21seconds left.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: The answer could be even shorter than the question. Is health in provincial jurisdiction? Will there be an increase in the health transfers and will they come without conditions?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I am sure the member would argue that it is important to work together. The federal government transfers money to the provinces, as he is well aware, to deliver health care, which is within each province's and territory's jurisdiction.\nThe Chair: We now move to Mrs.Gill.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill (Manicouagan, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. As the member for Manicouagan, I would like to address the House today on a matter that is very important in my constituency. At 350,000square kilometres, it borders the Gulf of St.Lawrence. Regionally, I am also in eastern Quebec, which includes the Gasp, the Magdalen Islands, and the Lower St.Lawrence. These are regions whose economy rests basically on two very important seasonal industries: tourism and fishing. Make no mistake, it is not the workers who are seasonal, it is the industry itself, as our former leader Gilles Duceppe so rightly used to say. Those industries are very important for that region of Quebec, but I see no measures to support them that accommodate all their uniqueness. These are cyclical industries, meaning that they operate at a very specific period during the year. A few minutes ago, I heard the Prime Minister say that he had intervened to help the companies and the workers in those seasonal industries. I would like to know what the specific assistance is and how it is tailored to the companies and the workers in the seasonal industries he mentions.\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr.Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for her question. We know that the current situation is causing upheaval in the lives of Canadians from one end of the country to the other and that it is having a major impact on our small and medium businesses. Since this crisis began, we have not hesitated to implement strong and speedy measures to support more Canadians. That is what we will continue to do. We know that the tourism sector is key to a number of communities in the country. We must help them to get through this crisis as best we can. We are continuing to have discussions and to tailor our measures so that as many Canadians as possible can take advantage of them.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Mr.Chair, with all respect, I am hearing that nothing has been done. Measures have been proposed, but, as I understand it, they are not specific to the seasonal sectors. Let us take the seasonal fishing industry. The fishers are currently going out, but right in the middle of the COVID-19 crisis. One fishing season has been pushed back. The same thing applies to tourism. The season will be pushed back, and it is possible that there may even not be one. The people and the companies in this sector have no second chances. They cannot start again in the fall. It's a bit like agriculture. They can't start a fishing season or a tourist season in the fall. So they need assistance. We have some proposals. For example, would the government be prepared to let the Canada emergency response benefit provide workers with eligibility to employment insurance benefits? They could then get through the coming year and make it to next season.\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, I want to thank the member for speaking about the situation in all regions of Canada, particularly in Quebec. From the start, we've been implementing significant measures to support the millions of workers who are currently struggling. We've taken significant measures with respect to tourism, agriculture and regional development. We're providing broader investments, such as the wage subsidy and emergency loans for small businesses, of which there are many in my colleague's constituency. We'll continue to work very hard so that the workers and businesses in her constituency can get through this crisis and emerge stronger and more united.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Mr.Chair, that's strike two. This is the second time that I've asked a question about targeted assistance for the seasonal industry. My honourable colleague's response doesn't make me feel any better. The workers in the industry also don't feel any better when they see that, at the end of the summer, they'll have no job and no money to put food on the table. Will these workers receive assistance adapted to their needs? It's the same thing for businesses. We're currently talking about the businesses in my constituency, but there are also businesses in the East. Quebec and Canada as a whole, both in terms of fishing and tourism\n",
      "The Chair: The honourable President of the Treasury Board has the floor.\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Thank you, Mr.Chair. My colleague probably knows the information that I'll be giving. The Canada Emergency Response Benefit is available to all individuals who haven't been receiving employment insurance benefits since December2019. A number of stakeholders in Canada and Quebec called for this, particularly in the places\nThe Chair: The next question goes to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. The Prime Minister announced the business bailout, and in that proposal, he said that there would be limits on CEO bonuses and share buybacks. By saying limits, the Prime Minister is suggesting that there would be some amount of bonuses or share buybacks that could be paid for with public dollars. If that's the case, how much?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we believe that it's very important that we support jobs. In that regard, we're trying to make sure that businesses can get through this time. As we provide that support, we've been very clear for large enterprises that share buybacks will not be allowed, period, and that there will, of course, be limitations on total compensation for senior executives in order to give Canadians confidence that we're doing the things we need to do to support them, but that we're not supporting executives.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, Germany has actually taken the lead and said that if a company wants public money, then its executives must commit to reducing their pay. Will Canada follow Germany to ensure that public dollars go to workers and not to enrich the executive suite, and commit that no public money will go to bonuses or increasing salaries for executives?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we are looking forward to releasing the complete details of the large employer emergency financing facility, and I think the member opposite will be quite pleased to see that we will be leading on behalf of Canada in advance of what Germany is doing.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, we know the PBO has said that $25 billion, at least, is being lost to our revenues because corporations are avoiding paying their fair share. Will the Prime Minister commit today very clearly that if a company is hiding its money by putting it in an offshore tax haven, that company will not receive public help, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, again with regard to this program, we want to be very clear that the support that goes to large businesses actually supports their Canadian enterprises and their Canadian employees. In that regard, we will not allow any company that has been convicted of tax evasion to have access to these funds, and we will carefully evaluate on an ongoing basis to make sure that companies remain eligible for this support based on their continuing investment in Canada.\nThe Chair: Mr. Singh.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, how many companies can the Minister of Finance name that have been convicted of tax evasion that would be denied help under this program?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I think what's most important is that we focus on Canadians. We're trying to support Canadians, whether they're working for small or large businesses, so they can get through this, can support their families during this time, and come out with a job at the end of it. That is exactly where our focus lies in this regard.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, not a single company. We are four years past the Panama papers and there hasn't been a single conviction. Those are simply fancy Liberal words saying that a company that has been convicted of tax evasion.... There are simply no companies that this government can give as an example. Why don't we follow what France has done and commit very clearly, not in Liberal fancy words but straight up, if a company is hiding its money by using offshore tax havens, it will not get public help. Will the minister commit to that right now?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we've been working with France and other countries to make these rules stricter for businesses. The process around the common reporting standard and the base erosion profit shifting has made it more difficult for firms to move money into tax havens, and it has ensured that we have transparency in seeing when they do so. We'll continue to do that hard work to make sure that businesses abide by the rules and pay their appropriate part of taxes in our country.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, let's talk about hard work. If a company is not convicted of tax evasion, but is putting its money in Barbados or Bermuda, for example, specifically to avoid paying taxesand we have a similar example of Loblaws doing something like thiswill that company, despite not having a conviction, but clearly having avoided paying their fair share by putting their money in an offshore tax haven, receive help, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I'd suggest that the member be very careful in accusing companies of wrongdoing. We have a country that respects international rules. We allow our companies to trade and do business around the world. That continues to be important, and that supports Canadian jobs. At the same time, we're trying to make sure those international rules work and get tighter. That's what we've been working on. We'll continue to do that because we know it's important that we can work internationally. It's important that companies pay their fair share here in Canada.\nThe Chair: The next question goes to Mr. Hoback.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Liberals hand-picked ambassador to China, Dominic Barton, stated that China's conduct during the pandemic is damaging to its own soft power. However, when asked if there should be an investigation into China's behaviour during the crisis, the health minister stated that's not for her to say because she doesn't have all the evidence about what China did or didn't do. Why is Canada's ambassador to China criticizing China's actions during the pandemic while this Liberal government is defending it?\nThe Chair: The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (UniversityRosedale, Lib.): Mr. Chair, Ambassador Barton is an excellent representative of Canada in China, and he is a member of our government and very much shares and helps to formulate our government's policy when it comes to China. Ambassador Barton, of course, shares our government's view that a post-crisis review is absolutely necessary.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, the government's March 27 duty deferral announcement has caused tension within the trade community. Customs brokers are being asked to shoulder tremendous liability as importers are not required to make duty payments until the end of June, when there is a real possibility that some of them may find themselves insolvent. Will the government commit to a liability exemption for customs brokers whose clients are unable to pay the duties at the end of June?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we have worked hard to determine programs that we think can be supportive of individuals and businesses, including allowing for deferral of taxes through this period. That we believe is important with respect to the GST, which we've allowed to be deferred until July 1, and in terms of taxes for businesses, until the end of August. We think this helps businesses to get through this challenging time, and we'll continue to support businesses and individuals so we can have a strong economy when we get through this crisis.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, the following three questions are from constituents in my riding, so hopefully, I'll get some good answers for them. The first one I'll talk about is Rick. He owns a small business, a local bowling alley, in Melfort. It's a family-owned operation, so he doesn't meet the payroll threshold for the wage subsidy benefit, nor does he qualify for any other announced loans or grants. There are businesses right across Canada that are in similar situations. Is the minister suggesting that they lie to get the funds, or will they make some changes so they qualify?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I want to highlight some of the initiatives we have put forward to assist small businesses. The Canada emergency wage subsidy covers 75% of the wages of employees, and that way they can maintain their jobs. We've also put forward the enhanced work-sharing program. It's an option for businesses to pay their employees. On top of that, I want to highlight the Canada emergency business account, which has issued 590,000 loans. As the Minister of Finance recently mentioned, we've deferred GST and HST and customs duty payments for businesses for the next three months.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, Robert owns a cleaning products company in Prince Albert. He tells me that Canadian custodians and building service contractors are not purchasing Canadian-made disinfectants because very few are included in the federal approval list for COVID-19, even though Canada produces many products that Health Canada has certified as disinfectants. Why is the Liberal government not prioritizing the approval of Canadian-made products?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, that assertion is not correct. In fact, we have been working very closely with producers of Canadian products as well as with our colleagues at Innovation, Science and Economic Development to make sure that Canadian companies have what they need to very quickly move through the approval process. Health Canada has accelerated this process, and most companies can get approved in one to seven days. Of course, there is an iterative process that requires companies to ensure that a product is safe for use in Canada.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, last week the government announced $252 million in assistance for Canadian farmers, which was largely seen as an insult, especially given that a good amount of this money was already budgeted. A constituent of mine, Tracy, from Melfort, wrote to me asking me to advocate for farmers and ranchers so they can get the support they need to continue to produce our food. When will the government start to prioritize farmers and ranchers? Will they continue to reform the business risk management program?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Absolutely, Mr.Chair. We're working very hard with our provincial colleagues to improve the risk management programs. We did announce programs last week, and some of these new programs are designed specifically for the meat sector. A total of $77.5million is earmarked for processors and $50million for beef producers.\nThe Chair: The next question goes to Mr. Calkins.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins (Red DeerLacombe, CPC): Mr. Chair, provinces are reopening at different speeds, and that includes opening their provincial parks before the May long weekend. It no longer makes sense for fully staffed national parks across the country to be uniformly closed. Will the Minister of Environment commit to opening national parks in harmony with provincial and territorial parks across Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, we are working very closely with our provincial partners on the reopening. I am pleased that we were able to publish, on Tuesday, April 28, shared guidelines on the reopening, which were supported by the Prime Minister and all of the premiers of the provinces and territories\nThe Chair: Mr. Calkins.\nMr. Blaine Calkins: Mr. Chair, boating is a safe way to enjoy the outdoors while maintaining physical distancing. Why is Parks Canada postponing the opening of lock operations and similar functions along our heritage waterways?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, as I was saying in my answer to the first question, the question of coordinating national and provincial parks is a very good one. That is something we are definitely working on.\nMr. Blaine Calkins: Mr. Chair, since the beginning of this pandemic, the minority Liberal government has been actively trying to push our democracy aside. It severely limited parliamentary sittings, attempted to take executive control of tax rates and used an order in council to ban lawfully acquired and responsibly owned firearms. When will the government stop using this pandemic as an excuse to run roughshod over our cherished democratic values?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: I don't understand this question at all, since we're meeting here to ask questions for twohours and 15minutes. That's the equivalent of three question periods. Yesterday, there was the equivalent of two question periods, and tomorrow there will be the equivalent of two more question periods. We're talking about seven question periods. That's more than normal.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins: Mr. Chair, the inconsistency in support for various sectors in our economy is baffling. There is more money made available to forcibly confiscate lawfully owned property than in emergency support for our hard-working farmers or our prosperity-creating oil and gas sector. The only consistent theme appears to be that sectors that do not traditionally vote Liberal are finding themselves left out in the cold. If that is not the case, why is there such an obvious discrepancy?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, those comments are completely unjustified. We're fully committed to our sectors, including the energy sector and the agriculture and agrifood sector. This is particularly important. These sectors are critical. That's why we're working to improve our risk management programs. We want to ensure that the criteria are broader and that more producers can benefit from these programs.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins: Mr. Chair, during the misinformation briefing, the public safety minister used Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom as examples for firearms policy. Does the public safety minister realize that these countries are islands and none share a border with anyone, least of which with the United States of America? Is my bringing this new-found evidence to the minister's attention going to change his focus to smugglers, gangs and criminals, instead of wrongfully blaming lawful gun owners?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Mr. Chair, I would like to assure the member that I have actually seen an atlas. I want to be very clear that those countries have recognized, like Canada has, that these weapons have no place in a civil society. They were designed for soldiers to engage in combat with other soldiers. They were not designed for hunting and sporting purposes, which are the lawful uses of a firearm in Canada, but rather for individuals to kill other individuals. Tragically, in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom, that is precisely what they have been used for, and we have prohibited\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Calkins.\nMr. Blaine Calkins: Mr. Chair, the nine o'clock gun is an iconic 12-pound cannon that has been fired daily in Vancouver in Stanley Park since the 1800s. It's now a prohibited firearm as of May 1, 2020. Can the minister advise the public of the safety risks that this cannon, which was manufactured in 1816, poses to the public?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, I assume the member opposite is referring to the prohibition of grenade launchers. There are about 34 in Canada and we have brought in regulations that now prohibit grenade launchers. It does not apply to some of the other things that have been suggested by the member opposite.\n",
      "Mr. Blaine Calkins: Mr. Chair, I was referring to the iconic, heritage 12-pound cannon that is mounted on a pedestal in Stanley Park. It was manufactured in 1816. Any cannon that can be fired can be loaded with a projectile, so it meets the definition of a firearm, which means that every cannon in Canada, every heritage piece that might be in a museum, every heritage piece that might be in a collection, is now a prohibited firearm. Was the minister not aware of this when he announced this policy?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, just to help the member opposite, let us be very clear. We have prohibited weapons that were unfortunately widely available in Canada and were being used for purposes other than sporting activities, which is the only use of a firearm in Canada, for either hunting or target shooting sporting activities. Rather, they were being used to harm individual Canadians and, in some tragic cases, many individual Canadians. We've done the right thing, Mr. Chair, and we\nThe Chair: We'll go to Mr. Nater next.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater (PerthWellington, CPC): Mr. Chair, agricultural societies across rural Ontario are making the difficult decision to cancel their fall fairs this year. Some of these fall fairs have been around since before Confederation. Not only is this a terrible loss for these communities of important community events, but it's also putting a significant financial strain on these agricultural societies. What action is the government taking to support agricultural societies in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, what we've done is we've put forward monies to support our regional development agencies. These agencies have the mandate and the ability to support local initiatives, including the events the member has highlighted. This is more than doubling the budget that currently exists, so that we have sufficient resources to support communities and these very important local events.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater: Mr. Chair, the arts and culture industry has a massive impact on local economies. In my riding alone we have the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, the Stratford Festival, Drayton Entertainment and Stratford Summer Music. The postponement and cancellation of the seasons of these important cultural institutions is having a massive impact on the hospitality industry, including local restaurants, hotels and bed and breakfasts. Many of these businesses are small businesses and owner-operated businesses that are falling through the cracks in the government's programs that have been introduced. How will the government address the blind spot in their programs for small businesses in communities like this, which rely on the tourism and the arts and culture industries?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, clearly, we understand how important these organizations are to these communities. That is why we allocated $500 million to respond to the specific financial needs of arts, heritage and sports organizations, to help them be more resilient through this difficult time. Last week we rolled out the funding of this announcement, and we look forward to engaging with communities across the country.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater: Mr. Chair, 1.8 million jobs are attributed to the tourism industry in Canada. Among these, 740,000 are related to international travelling. No one wants to see the borders reopen until it's safe to do so, but can the government provide clarity on what criteria will be used to provide some information to these tourism operators of how, when and under what criteria international borders will be reopened?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the member opposite for his view that we need to be cautious and prudent and put the health and safety of Canadians first. That is very much the view of our government as well. When it comes to international borders, the health and safety of Canadians is absolutely the first criterion we are going to look at. Of course, we will be looking at the situation with coronavirus\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Nater.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater: Mr. Chair, many Canadians continue to fall through the cracks of programs announced by this government. One of my constituents only recently returned to the workforce after spending many years out of the workforce raising her children. As such, she doesn't qualify under the $5,000 minimum requirement for income over the past 12 months. How will the government address these people who are falling through the cracks?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr. Chair, we are mindful of the very difficult circumstances in which many Canadians who have a foot in two places find themselves. We have a number of different measures to help them and we're going to continue to do so.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater: Mr. Chair, it has been reported that as many as 15% of farmers and farm families in Canada could face going out of business and bankruptcy because of the massive impact that COVID-19 is having on agriculture in Canada. Business risk management programs are not working for these farm families, and the processing capacity is simply not there for farmers and for farm families, especially in the beef and pork industries. How will the government immediately address the short-term processing capacity issues found in the beef and pork sectors? When will they finally live up to the commitment of a complete review of the business risk management programs?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I've been holding discussions with my provincial counterparts to review the risk management programs. With respect to the AgriStability program, we've offered producers some accommodations and pushed back the enrolment date to July3. We've also increased, from 50% to 75%, the advance payment that they can obtain quickly, in provinces where this is possible. We've also posted a calculator online. So before they say that the program isn't working, I encourage them to use this calculator to find out how much they can receive.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater: Mr. Chair, this government continues to show a blind spot for small businesses in Canada. Many don't qualify for the CEBA because they don't have a high enough payroll or because they don't have a business account. So many small businesses are falling through the cracks. Will the government expand the criteria so that small businesses in my community and across Canada can qualify for the important assistance they need at this time?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, I would like to remind my honourable colleague that we did expand the eligibility criteria threshold from $50,000 down to $20,000 so that more businesses could be eligible, and on the top end, for salaries, from $1 million to $1.5 million. That is why we have seen 590,000 small business loans issued. That's a testament to the program.\nThe Chair: The next question will go to Mr. Maguire.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire (BrandonSouris, CPC): Mr. Chair, hog and beef producers have seen drastic price drops. Producers are telling me that they would use the western livestock price insurance program if the premiums were affordable, which they are not. Will the Minister of Agriculture work with the industry to make the premiums affordable so that producers can have price protection against these market fluctuations?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr. Chair, we're working closely with the industry and my provincial counterparts to identify the best programs to help producers in this difficult time. Last week, we announced specific programs for the meat sector: $77.5million for processors, $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire: Mr. Chair, Chez Angela Bakery in Brandon has seen tremendous success since it opened two years ago. Due to this growth and the eligibility criteria for the wage subsidy program, their revenues would have to decline much further than 30% in order for them to receive help. Will the Minister of Finance amend the eligibility for the wage subsidy program so that Chez Angela and similar businesses can apply?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC)): The honourable Minister of Industry.\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for his question. I want to highlight the fact that we did make an amendment. When we originally proposed this initiative, the threshold was 30% for the month of March. Now businesses will only need to show a 15% decline in revenue, and businesses will have the option of using January and February as a reference period to show revenue losses, or of using the same time last year. This reflects, again, our ability to understand the needs of businesses, to act quickly and to make sure that they benefit from this very important initiative.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire: They still don't qualify, Mr. Chair. The Blarney Stone restaurant in Killarney has repeatedly asked the Minister of Finance if they could refinance their loans through the Canada small business financing program. Will the Minister of Finance give small business owners the ability to refinance their existing loans through the program, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, again, we've demonstrated flexibility and nimbleness when it comes to these financing options. I'd also like to highlight another very important initiative that was mentioned earlier, the deferring of GST/HST and customs duty payments for businesses for the next three months. This will help 3.2 million business owners and entrepreneurs across the country. Again, it's another initiative to put more money in the pockets of businesses as they deal with this unprecedented health care crisis.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire: Mr. Chair, the Liberals still haven't fixed the payroll eligibility problems for many small business owners who need to access the zero-interest loans available in CEBA. Can the minister provide any rationale for why countless small businesses are not being allowed to access these loans?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, as of today, 590,000 small business loans have been issued. I think that's contrary to the point the member opposite is making. Clearly we recognize that we need to be agile and that we need to understand the needs of businesses. That's why we made changes to this particular program. We'll continue to listen to businesses. I can assure the member opposite that 590,000 small business loans is no small feat.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire: Mr. Chair, Canada has some of the best competitive sport shooters in the world. The Liberals' order in council on firearms will put an end to many Canadians being able to represent our country. Can the Minister of Public Safety list even one of these sport shooting competitions, which will now be illegal due to his order in council?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable Minister of Public Safety.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, it's an important question because sport shooting is a very important tradition for many Canadian sport shooters. I want to assure the member opposite that the weapons we have prohibited by this order in council were not designed for sport shooting and are not used in the Olympics or Paralympic Games. They are not included in this and therefore have no impact on that activity of legitimate sport shooting.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have time for one more short question, Mr. Maguire.\n",
      "Mr. Larry Maguire: Mr. Chair, statistics show that women are more likely to live paycheque to paycheque, so women continue to be disproportionately impacted by this pandemic in a negative way. Many are worried they won't have a job to go back to. Will the government commit to helping women who are bearing this financial burden return to the workforce?\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr. Chair, this is a very good question. I would love to have a lot of time to answer it. The answer is yes, of course. We are making sure that many of our measures do not disproportionately impact women, because when women succeed, all Canadians succeed.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now continue with Mr.Blanchette-Joncas.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas (Rimouski-NeigetteTmiscouataLes Basques, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. It's a privilege to be here in the House today to represent the people of Rimouski-NeigetteTmiscouataLesBasques, but also to serve as the BlocQubcois tourism critic. Tourism in Quebec is a significant economic engine and wealth creator. This industry is vital to the regions of Quebec, as I'll demonstrate. The tourism industry in Quebec generates over $15billion in economic spinoffs and employs more than 400,000workers. In Quebec, one in tenjobs is connected to the tourism industry. Every dollar spent on tourism generates about 70cents in the Quebec economy. The tourism industry consists of over 30,000businesses, and two-thirds of these businesses are outside the major centres in the Quebec City and Montreal regions. In the tourism industry, 82% of businesses have fewer than 20employees. This shows once again the need to support this industry. I heard my honourable colleague on the other side of the House say that a plan was in place for the tourism industry. I want to hear what he has to say about this plan. To date, what specific measures has the government taken to support the tourism industry?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr.Chair, I want to thank my colleague for his question. He's right. The situation is very difficult for all regions of our country and for Quebec. That's why we've invested in regional development. These investments will improve the situation in the tourism sector. These investments will provide assistance for festivals, programs and other initiatives. We'll continue to work with my colleague and the other members to find solutions that will improve the situation.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas: Mr.Chair, I'm not sure that I fully understood the plan. However, I can say that the people in the tourism industry don't understand the plan, because they're still waiting for it. One issue in the tourism industry involves fixed costs. Initially, we asked that part of the wage subsidy be set aside to cover fixed costs. The government implemented the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance. The assistance covers 75% of commercial rental payments under $50,000, and property owners pay the remaining 25%. To date, how many applications have been submitted under this program?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: The wage subsidy is very significant. However, we know that there are other fixed costs. That's why we've taken other measures, such as the measures related to credit and rent. We've combined several measures that will help companies bridge the gap until the end of the crisis.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas: We expect to hear a figure and not necessarily words. We could see that the program was ineffective, particularly for seasonal businesses, including businesses in the tourism industry. Businesses need to have suspended operations or to show a decline of at least 70% in operations since the start of the public health crisis. How can a tourism business that hasn't yet launched operations show a decline of 70%? It doesn't make sense. A recent survey conducted by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business shows that only one in ten businesses can benefit from this assistance. Yet these businesses need the assistance. Does the government believe that commercial rent assistance is effective even though only one in ten businesses can benefit from it?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr.Chair, I know that the situation is very difficult. That's why we've introduced another option. Through the community futures development corporations and business development centres, we're providing $71million to businesses and organizations in rural communities by giving them much-needed access to capital. This investment will help many businesses in Quebec, particularly in the tourism sector.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Blanchette-Joncas, you have one minute left.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas: Mr.Chair, in my humble opinion, one out of ten businesses amounts to 10%. This figure isn't very high and is far from a passing grade. What does the government plan to do? Does it plan to implement an expanded program to support businesses in the tourism and seasonal industries to ensure that fixed costs are more fully covered?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr.Chair, we have a strategy. We've invested in regional development and in small and medium-sized businesses. We've helped the workers and we'll continue to work with the provincial governments to find solutions. We must work together, particularly in the tourism sector, because the situation in the sector is very serious. I'm sure that we can find solutions to help improve the situation for people in the tourism sector.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now continue with Mr. Van Bynen.\n",
      "Mr. Tony Van Bynen (NewmarketAurora, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I would like to inform you that I will be splitting my time with the member for Kingston and the Islands. Mr. Chair, last week was Mental Health Week. We know that the COVID-19 pandemic has caused a great deal of stress and uncertainty for all Canadians and that during this uncertain time, it is normal for many people to feel increased anxiety, depression and mental health issues. In fact, a poll by the Canadian Mental Health Association's Ontario branch showed that 61% of respondents were worried about the mental health of a loved one and more than half of the respondents were worried about their own mental health. In the Standing Committee on Health, we've also heard from many witnesses that our front-line heroes, working around the clock to protect us from the virus and to help others recover, are at great risk of physical and mental burnout. This shows how seriously Canadians need supports for their mental health and well-being during this most trying time. Can the Minister of Health tell my constituents what the government is doing to support Canadians during this uncertain time?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I thank the member for NewmarketAurora for that very insightful question. In fact, we've been very worried about Canadians' mental health as resulting from the pandemic, but even prior to that we knew that we needed to create rapidly more tools for Canadians across the country, no matter where they lived. We've worked very closely with our provincial and territorial partners, for example, to amplify the work that they're doing through increased supports, financial supports. We also launched Wellness Together Canada, which is a digital portal, where all Canadians can get access to tools they can use to help with the circumstances they find themselves in and to get the information they need during COVID-19. It also allows Canadians to connect to paid professionals who can provide support in a variety of different ways, whether it's over the telephone, through email or by text, understanding that Canadians have different ways of connecting that work for them. We've also partnered with a number of organizations that provide supports to Canadians, many of the crisis hotlines, for example, that are working double-time or triple-time to try to keep up with the volume of demand. This is a difficult time for all Canadians and we will continue to work to ensure Canadians have the supports they need.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go to Mr. Gerretsen, from Kingston and the Islands.\n",
      "Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Mr. Chair, students from across the country have been significantly impacted by the effects of COVID-19. As we know, thousands of post-secondary students depend on employment throughout the summer in order to pay for expenses throughout their academic year. Unfortunately the pandemic has resulted in the closure of many businesses and organizations that would normally employ students who work during the summer. Thousands of students are now left without the financial means they were depending on to pay for their post-secondary educational expenses. In response to the concerns raised by students, the government announced the creation of the Canada emergency student benefit, which will provide students with the assistance they need to make it through these uncertain financial times. I represent a riding that has multiple post-secondary institutions, and my constituents have been asking when they should expect to apply for the Canada emergency student benefit. Can the President of the Treasury Board please give us an update on the status of the Canada emergency student benefit, and in particular, when students will be able to start accessing this benefit, and also confirm if and how it may be retroactive?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr. Chair, I would first like to thank the member for Kingston and the Islands for his strong advocacy in favour of young Canadians in his riding and across Canada. Mr. Chair, our government is committed to ensuring that young Canadians have the support that they need during this very difficult time. That's why we are investing $9 billion to support students and recent graduates affected by COVID-19. The measures include doubling the Canada student grants, raising the cap on student loans, creating new employment opportunities for students and launching the Canada emergency student benefit. I'm pleased to share with the House that the application period for the Canada emergency student benefit will commence on May 15. That is this Friday. This benefit will provide $1,250 a month to eligible students or $2,000 for students who have disabilities or dependants. Mr. Chair, when Canada emerges from this pandemic, we want to make sure that students are in a financial position to continue their studies so that they can pursue fruitful careers and help build a strong Canada.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll wait a few seconds before moving on to the next five-minute period to allow the console operator to switch with someone else. We'll next go to the honourable member for Calgary Skyview, Ms. Sahota.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Victims of human trafficking continue to suffer during this crisis. Many are facing worse conditions and additional barriers to escaping human trafficking than before the pandemic. The government has been completely silent on this issue, and now funding to fight human trafficking is being taken away from front-line organizations. Why would the government choose to do this at this vulnerable time?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, human trafficking is, as we all know, one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. Our government is working to eliminate all instances of it. To combat human trafficking, we've launched a comprehensive national strategy that brings together federal efforts under one strategic framework. We have backed that new move with $75 million in additional investments, and the new strategy now strengthens Canada's ability to fight this abhorrent attack on human rights and human dignity.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: Mr. Chair, this simply isn't good enough. The government is letting down our most vulnerable Canadians. We know that human trafficking hasn't stopped during this pandemic, and these front-line organizations have received the message that supporting them in fighting these heinous crimes is not a priority. What is the minister going to do to rectify this situation?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: As I said, we have developed a national strategy to combat human trafficking. We've made $75 million in additional investments, and this new strategy takes a whole-of-government approach. It empowers victims and survivors to regain their self-confidence and control over their lives, and it will prevent more of these crimes from taking place. It provides better protection and support for those most vulnerable to human trafficking, and it will ensure that police and prosecutors have the resources to prosecute these traffickers for their heinous crimes. Mr. Chair, we'll continue to work collaboratively with victims groups and to provide the supports that are required.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: Mr. Chair, more vulnerable Canadians continue to be let down. There are effective medications that have been developed for those living with cystic fibrosis, yet this medication is not available here. We know that the pharmaceutical company has not been able to apply to market this drug in Canada because of the changes to the PMPRB, which have been heavily criticized by stakeholders and patients. Will the minister delay the July 1 implementation date and review the regulations so that drugs like Trikafta are made available in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, there are two separate issues in that question, so I will talk about the PMPRB. As a government, we are committed, as you know, to increasing affordability of and accessibility to Canadian medications, to medications across Canada, and the PMPRB regulatory amendments will help Canadians to be able to afford their prescriptions. Canada will continue to be an important market for new medicines. In fact, many countries with much lower prices for medicine gain access to new medicines in the same time frame as Canada, or even faster.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: Mr. Chair, for those living with a rare disease, every single day can be a struggle. We know the importance of lowering drug costs, but not at the cost of life-saving drugs not being available here in Canada. Waiting years for the government to reduce regulations is not an option. We also know that the nature of the disease makes those people more susceptible to contracting COVID-19, and they are at a higher risk of its being lethal. Why is this government continuing to let those with CF struggle and suffer needlessly?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: I believe the member opposite is talking about the drug Trikafta, and many cystic fibrosis patient groups have been advocating having access to it in Canada. In fact, the manufacturer of Trikafta has not submitted an application to market this product in Canada. However, that said, we do have a special access program for drugs that are not marketed in Canada. As of May 6, Health Canada approved 95 applications for 98 patients to access Trikafta through the special access program. I would encourage all patients with cystic fibrosis to speak to their doctor to ensure that they too can apply through the special access program.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have time for one short question of 45 seconds.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: We know the importance of lowering drug costs. As you know, 4,300 people suffer from this rare genetic disease. Most of them are children and young adults. One young woman from Calgary is a CF champion, fighting for her passion to be a famous opera singer. She's very talented. Her reality of living with CF has meant that she has had many visits to the hospital and had many health crises that have made singing impossible for a time. CF patients are waiting for this drug, which was fast-tracked in other countries. Now it seems that the changes to the PMPRB will cause further delays or complications. Will the minister delay the implementation and review the PMPRB?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Honourable Minister, please provide a short response.\nHon. Patty Hajdu: I will just repeat that the manufacturer has not applied to sell this drug in Canada.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Now we will go to Mr. Lobb of HuronBruce.\n",
      "Mr. Ben Lobb (HuronBruce, CPC): Thank you very much. On July 25, 2019, after the federal-provincial-territorial agriculture meeting, the agriculture minister promised big changes in 2020 for programs like AgriStability and AgriRecovery. Besides a pilot program in a couple of provinces and an application deadline, is there anything else you would like to report?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Yes, Mr.Chair. Since the July meeting in QuebecCity with the provincial and territorial ministers of agriculture, we've been working to improve the AgriStability program. This issue remains a priority, and it's included in my mandate letter. However, at this time, we're responding to emergencies that go beyond what the various risk management programs can provide to our producers.\n",
      "Mr. Ben Lobb: You can appreciate, Minister, the issue we're dealing with here. The United States Department of Agriculture has allocated $19 billion to farmers, $16 billion of that in direct support. The program that was offered last week, $252 million, was a mere fraction of what the United States is getting. If the minister is telling farmers to bank on the existing business risk management program, it's not going to work. Countless numbers of pork farmers, just in my riding alone, have one thousand, two thousand, three thousand head of hogs ready to be shipped within the near future. They will lose $70 a head. AgriStability isn't going to cut it. We need an immediate program to help out these hard-working pork farmers.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: I fully understand my colleague's comments. That's why we announced specific programs for the meat sector: $77.5million for processors, $50million for beef producers and $50million for pork producers. We've also increased, improved and facilitated access to AgriStability. One pork producer tried the calculator and told me that he could quickly receive $11 per head of hog. Alberta's agriculture minister even publicly stated that some producers could obtain the desired amount of $20 per head using the AgriStability program.\n",
      "Mr. Ben Lobb: Mr. Chair, you can see the problem right there with the math. The minister just said that one of her pork producers is going to get $11. They are losing $70. There's a $59-per-head gap, times likely several thousand head of hogs in their barns. Let's go to another trying issue with agriculture. It's the carbon tax. I know that the government has their position on the carbon tax, and I know that I'm not going to change it, but I want to give the members of Parliament across the way, the government, an idea of what a pork farmer might go through. A pork farmer sent me their bill for February 26 to March 24. Their natural gas bill was about $2,400. In there was close to $500 in federal carbon tax. Farmers manage their woodlots ethically. They have environmental farm plans. They have nutrient management plans. They get no credit for any of the carbon sequestration and ethical environmental management on their farm, yet every month they are asked to pay a carbon tax. It just doesn't seem fair. I want the minister's opinion on that.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: As you know, our pollution pricing policy is designed to build a clean economy. We've introduced exemptions for agriculture. On one hand, emissions from animal and vegetable production are not subject to carbon pricing, and on the other hand, farm fuels and other fuels delivered to off-farm points-of-sale are exempt. We've also provided partial reimbursements for propane and natural gas used in commercial greenhouses. We have already done a lot. We encourage producers to take advantage of the business risk management programs, and we are ready to do more. We've already shown that, and we will continue to do so.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): There is time for one short question and response. Go ahead, Mr. Lobb.\nMr. Ben Lobb: Mr. Chair, I know the Minister of Agriculture has toured my riding. She knows very well what the lay of the land is here. What about pork farmers? What about chicken farmers? What about hens? What about drying in the fall? All those farmers pay a carbon tax, and there is no program for them. They pay and they pay and they pay, and what makes it worse is that they are given no credit for the environmental work they do on their farms.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: It's true that our producers work incredibly hard to protect the environment and ensure the well-being of their animals. That's important, to be sure, but I'd like to put the impact of pollution pricing into perspective. To put these estimates into context, AAFC used data from agricultural tax data programs to show the impact on a per-farm basis as a percentage of total operating costs. The estimates ranged from $210 to $819 per farm and 0.05% to 0.42% of total farm operating expenses.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We now move on to Mr.Lehoux.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux (Beauce, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Being from a rural area, myself, I can assure you that people who live in rural communities are resourceful and resilient. Instead of staying cooped up in their homes, they are doing their best to retool and save the companies they work for. One of the only options they have is to work from home. Unfortunately, though, they don't have access to the tools they need. Cellular and Internet networks are inadequate, even non-existent in some cases. I want to know, not whether the government is going to help these Canadians join the 21st century, but when. Can you give us any assurances and, above all, a timetable for a real plan?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I agree with the member. The situation is very serious. High-speed Internet is not a luxury; it's a necessity. That's why we launched the connect to innovate program. My fellow minister Ms. Monsef will be introducing the next strategy to improve the situation in all regions, especially rural areas. Finding a solution is absolutely imperative.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: I don't think the minister understood my question. In the 2019 budget, the government promised to connect all Canadians to the Internet by 2030. This is 2020. That's 10years away. People don't need reliable Internet service 10years down the road. The pandemic has made the need even more acute right now. When, then, will people have Internet access? I'm simply asking you for a date now.\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr.Chair, under the last budget, we launched a $1.7-billion program to support broadband infrastructure. That's a lot of money for high-speed Internet. My fellow minister Ms.Monsef is in charge of the program. We also introduced the connect to innovate program, which has helped 900communities all over the country. We will keep working to make the lives of people who live in rural areas better, and we will find solutions to provide high-speed Internet access.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: Mr.Chair, you no doubt know that Beauce is the cradle of small and medium-sized businesses. On March27, the Prime Minister introduced the emergency wage subsidy to help businesses cope with the pandemic. Unfortunately, general partnerships were overlooked. Of the many constituents in my riding who have reached out to me on the subject, one, in particular, has contacted me three times since mid-April. I still don't have anything to tell him because the government is dragging its feet. We'd like to get a clear and specific answer. The same goes for sole proprietors, who were also overlooked. When is the government going to include these businesses in the current programs?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr.Chair, we announced in financial support for vulnerable small and medium-sized businesses that are not eligible for the measures already in place and that are struggling with cash flow issues. We've also invested $71million to support businesses and organizations by giving them access to capital in rural communities. As well, we've invested in programs for rural areas, and we will continue to make investments to help small and medium-sized businesses.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Lehoux, please keep it brief.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: All right, Mr.Chair. The Canadian Federation of Agriculture asked the federal government for an agriculture and agri-food emergency fund of $2.6billion to help maintain food security in Canada in response to COVID-19. Will the minister address the federation's request? Minister, I'd like you to give us a date.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: We already have a host of business risk management programs, through which, $1.6billion is available to producers annually. More support is actually available, even through those programs, since they meet the demand. We are prepared to do more, and we will. I urge producers to apply for the AgriStability program and to use the funds in their AgriInvest accounts. Some $2.3billion is available through that program.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the honourable member for LangleyAldergrove, Mr. Van Popta.\n",
      "Mr. Tako Van Popta (LangleyAldergrove, CPC): Mr. Chair, the government's wage subsidy program is designed to help traditional companies, not high-growth companies. For example, I was talking to Ron, who operates an engineering firm in my riding that specializes in designing and building very expensive machines for their ever-expanding overseas markets. Business is down, but not by the requisite 30%. Of course not, since they're in high-growth mode, but just recently they had to lay off some very talented staff. Can the minister confirm that the wage subsidy program can be expanded or adapted to deal with high-growth companies that will play such a key role in Canada's economic relaunch?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, my honourable colleague is absolutely correct. We, the government, take enormous pride in our small businesses, particularly the start-ups and the high-growth firms. They're going to be absolutely essential for our economic recovery, and we know that some of them are ineligible for the wage subsidy. That is why we introduced a $250-million program in the industrial research assistance program through the National Research Council, strictly targeting and focusing on those high-growth firms that were ineligible for the wage subsidy, so that they can provide the wage support to keep those highly skilled individuals in Canada.\n",
      "Mr. Tako Van Popta: Mr. Chair, there is another category of businesses that are falling through the cracks and feel they are being left behind by the wage subsidy program. Those are recently merged companies. For example, there is a trucking company in my riding that is significantly bigger this year than it was last year as a result of some key acquisitions and mergers late last year. All of the legacy companies by themselves would qualify individually for the wage subsidy, but the merged company does not. Can the minister confirm that the wage subsidy program is sufficiently flexible to accommodate recently merged companies?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Mr. Chair, again I want to thank my honourable colleague for his question. He is identifying unique pain points that exist within the overall economy with specific examples of companies that are not able to access some of the programming we have provided. I do want to highlight, when it comes to the wage subsidy, that we have made changes to the revenue thresholds to make more companies eligible. The specific example that the member opposite raises is something that is under consideration.\n",
      "Mr. Tako Van Popta: Mr. Chair, the government's commercial rent assistance program discriminates against certain tenants based solely on whether their landlord has a mortgage on the subject building. I was talking to Leslie the other day. She manages a number of commercial office buildings in my riding. Some of these buildings have mortgages and some don't, and it all depends on what they were able to negotiate with their banker. Leslie is having a very hard time explaining to her tenants why some will qualify for the rental subsidy and some won't, depending on which building they are in. Can the government confirm that the nonsensical mortgage requirement in the rent subsidy program is gone?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, the approach that was taken on trying to assist small businesses with rent is very much based on the fact that this is a provincial jurisdiction, so we have used the mortgage system as a way to do it. It is, in fact, not nonsensical. That said, we are looking at this particular issue. It's something that is under consideration. We expect that we will find a way to ensure that those landlords who don't have mortgages can work with the CMHC to have the appropriate approach to be eligible for this program.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have about one minute left, Mr. Van Popta. Go ahead with a short question.\nMr. Tako Van Popta: Many people in my riding have reached out to me to say they are quite disturbed that their favourite hunting and sport shooting firearms are now on the banned list. Can the minister inform Canadians how many Canadian taxpayer dollars are going to go to the buyback program for legal gun owners and how far that money would go if it were to be diverted to something useful, such as more border controls to stop the illegal importation of firearms?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Our first priority is the protection and safety of Canadians. We've seen an unacceptable rise in gun violence right across our community. All weapons are being regulated in our country. Some, such as handguns, represent such a significant risk that we strongly restrict them. Some weapons, quite frankly, are completely unsuitable for any sporting or hunting activity, such as weapons designed for soldiers to engage in combat with other soldiers. We have now prohibited those weapons. The saving of lives is worth an investment in public safety. I want to assure the member we will bring forward legislation that will facilitate an appropriate buyback program. I look forward to a discussion in this House with the member opposite on how that can be done to ensure public safety and to ensure that we do it in as effective a way as possible.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. Manly.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the government and ministers present for the rapid relief that they've provided to Canadians. I know the constituents in my riding really appreciate that. I'd like to thank them also for being responsive to the MPs who have brought forward gaps in the program. The CERB requirements recognize dividend income for eligibility for the Canada emergency business account, CEBA, but the Canada emergency business account does not recognize dividends or contract payments. I've been contacted by many small business owners who have been legally paying themselves with dividends for years, but these companies cannot apply for the CEBA even though this might save them from bankruptcy during this crisis. Will the government make the necessary changes to allow dividend income to be admissible for CEBA eligibility?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I'd like to thank the honourable colleague for his very thoughtful question and his advocacy in looking for different solutions and in working with us to help small businesses, not only in his riding but across the country as well. He's absolutely correct that the Canada emergency business account has been successful, as 590,000 loans have been issued. That's a reflection of some of the changes that we introduced, which made the criteria more generous so that more businesses could obtain assistance. He has raised the issue of dividends. As I said before, we continue to work with Canadians and Canadian businesses and colleagues in this House to see how we can assist more Canadians, not less of them, and we'll continue to endeavour to do that.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Mr. Chair, there are still many Canadians stranded overseas who are trying to return to Canada. Some have no assurance that their non-Canadian spouse will be allowed into Canada with them. Many are being forced to make an impossible choice between sheltering in place overseas or separating from their spouse in order to return home. Will the government remove unnecessary barriers and allow these Canadians to return to Canada immediately with their spouses?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, in an effort to flatten the curve and to protect Canadians, we've taken a number of extraordinary measures at the border and we have restricted non-essential travel of people coming into Canada. While Canadian citizens and permanent residents will always be admissiblesubject, of course, to a 14-day quarantine upon entry foreign nationals are subject to travel restrictions. For individuals to be eligible to travel to Canada, their travel must be considered essential travel, consistent with the emergency order put in place. I recognize and very much respect the spirit of the member's question. We recognize these are difficult situations. It is not our desire to keep families apart. I want to assure that each situation will be decided on a case-by-case basis based on the information made available to border service officers. I welcome any inquiries he may have. If he reaches out to my office, we'll help in any way we can.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Mr. Chair, the Alberta energy regulator has suspended a wide range of environmental monitoring requirements for oil sands companies during this pandemic. This includes environmental reporting. It includes wetland wildlife and bird monitoring, even though Canada is a signatory to the international migratory bird treaty. Water that escapes from storm ponds doesn't need to be tested. Air quality programs, including for first nations communities, have been reduced. Testing for leaks of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, has been suspended. This is after the federal government has provided $750 million in funding for methane emission reductions. The federal government has also just committed $1.7 billion to clean up orphaned oil wells. That message, clearly, is about the negligence of the Alberta government. It is something corporations should be paying for. Will the federal government hold the Alberta government to account and withhold energy sector relief funding until these environmental regulations are reinstated?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the member for his question and for his very collaborative approach with our government on a number of issues. I would like to thank him for this particular question and his particular reference to methane, because it gives me an opportunity to highlight some very important progress that the federal government made this week in working with the Province of Alberta. Just yesterday Alberta joined B.C. and Saskatchewan and published its own draft regulations on methane. This will allow us, in working with Alberta, to work on equivalency on methane, which will allow us to work towards standing down the federal system in those jurisdictions. This is tremendously important, because it will allow us to cut methane emissions by 45% by 2025. It's hugely important for fighting climate change together.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Now we'll go to the honourable member for Hamilton Mountain, Mr. Duvall.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Duvall (Hamilton Mountain, NDP): Mr. Chair, I was pleased to hear about extending the tax deadline to October 1 in yesterday's announcement for seniors. After many discussions with the Minister of Seniors, I was glad to hear that she was listening to the NDP and many others on making this happen. It stops a lot of interruptions for people who couldn't get their taxes done. Mr. Chair, COVID-19 has been showing us in stark terms that Canadian seniors are struggling to make ends meet in Canada. Before enduring the crisis, it was clear that OAS and GIS benefits levels were just not enough for seniors to keep up with the cost of living, so we need to fix this now. Why is the government refusing to increase OAS and GIS benefits to lift seniors out of poverty on a permanent basis?\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte (Minister of Seniors): Mr. Chair, I want to thank my honourable colleague for giving me this opportunity to rise today and talk about how we are supporting Canadian seniors during this pandemic. Many Canadian seniors are facing significant health, economic and social challenges as a result of the pandemic. They built this country and now they need our help. Our government is taking significant action to provide Canadian seniors with greater financial security and give them the help they need during this crisis. We're building on past measures by introducing a one-time tax-free payment of $300 for those who receive OAS and of $200 for those receiving GIS, totalling $500 to seniors who receive both. We are also supporting community-based projects to improve the quality of life for seniors through the New Horizons for Seniors program, and investing in other charities. Seniors need our help, and we are delivering for them.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Duvall: Mr. Chair, I was glad to hear that the Minister of Seniors is acknowledging the financial burden that our seniors are taking on. She mentioned the prescription dispensing fees, the added costs of their groceries and the delivery charges. I was glad that the Prime Minister acknowledged the heavy toll seniors are facing, and that they helped to shape this country and now they need our help. A surprising statement that I heard yesterday was the Treasury Board and the seniors minister's admission in their press briefing that the level of assistance being provided to Canadian seniors is quite low. Why is the seniors minister acknowledging all the burdens they're trying to help the seniors with, but the response they're giving is just a very low way of handling it?\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte: I really do want to acknowledge my honourable colleague for his advocacy. I just want to assure him that while the government remains committed to implementing policies in our platform, we are focused on this health crisis right now. We have provided financial support to seniors sooner through the GST credit top-up, and now with additional payments to OAS and GIS recipients. This year we are investing over twice as much on financial assistance for seniors as we committed to in our platform, which is $3.8 billion compared to $1.56 billion in the platform. Seniors need our help and we're delivering. These payments have provided greater support for the most vulnerable seniors. Just to give some details, for those on OAS and GIS, they will get, in conjunction with the GST credit top-up, $875 per adult, and over $1,500 per couple. This is not an insignificant amount. This is a significant amount to support our seniors during this pandemic.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have about one minute left for both a question and a response. Go ahead, Mr. Duvall.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Duvall: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The minister was talking about there being a maximum payment, if it's possible. What I've heard from seniors is this is a one-shot deal and it's an insult to them. They want some stability on an ongoing basis. We did make an agreement about two weeks ago that help would be implemented without delay on the seniors issue and for people with disabilities. Why did yesterday's announcement include only the people who are seniors, but not people with disabilities? Why have they been omitted? When can they expect help to come?\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte: I just want to touch on the two points raised. On the one-time payment, we know that seniors need help now, and that's why it's important to get that money into seniors' accounts as soon as possible. That is why we're providing the one payment right away, instead of small amounts spread over months. In the coming weeks we will look at additional supports for other vulnerable Canadians. I just want to let him know we are working on additional measures.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go now\nMr. Scott Duvall: I didn't hear anything about the disability\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The five minutes are finished.  It is now over to Mrs.Gill, the member for Manicouagan.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'll be sharing my time with the member for Rimouski-NeigetteTmiscouataLesBasques. I have just one question. It's for the government, and this will be the fourth time I've asked today. When I go back home, what am I going to tell the people of Chandler, Amqui, Bic, Saint-Simon, Tadoussac and Harrington Harbour? Am I going to tell them that the government supports the Bloc Qubcois's proposal? We propose giving seasonal workers access to employment insurance benefits until next season, regardless of whether they received the CERB, how many hours they worked or how many they accumulated. Should I instead tell them that the Liberal government has nothing in store for them as they suffer through the crisis? The government hasn't managed to bridge the employment insurance gap, and is even planning to bring it to six, if not eight, months. That means they'll have nothing to put on the dinner table for the next year. I'd like an answer, Mr.Chair.\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Mr.Chair, I have three things to say in response to the member's important question. First, we obviously understand what she's saying. The work is seasonal, not the workers. The work they do is fundamental so they can support their families and their communities in eastern Quebec and other regions. Second, the CERB delivers significant assistance to those often vulnerable workers, the majority of whom would be able or certainly eager to find another job. Third, and finally, before any longer-term investments are made, it's important to keep in mind that those who may have received employment insurance benefits but who lost them in recent weeks or who do seasonal work are eligible for the CERB. That said, we are also looking ahead. We've already announced some very important measuresand we'll continue to do soin support of tourism, culture, agriculture, fisheries, forestry and many other key contributors to regional development in Quebec and elsewhere.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The member for Rimouski-NeigetteTmiscouataLesBasques, Mr.Blanchette-Joncas, has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas: Mr.Chair, the situation my fellow member just described is of little comfort to those in Quebec's regions. To be frank, the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program is a flop. According to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, one in three businesses doesn't qualify for rent relief because it doesn't meet the 70% drop in revenues requirement. Half of businesses have indicated that their landlords won't be applying for the program because it's optional. Commercial landlords can choose to participate in the program or not. How is that going to help businesses, Mr.Chair? We are still trying to figure that out. Businesses, especially seasonal ones, need more support to cover their fixed costs. Will the government commit to reviewing the program, which is too restrictive for businesses and optional for landlords? The program must do more to help businesses, particularly seasonal ones, cover their fixed costs.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we know that businesses are, of course, very concerned about fixed costs. Our rent relief program is very significant. We haven't yet announced all the details, so it's much too soon to say that it's flawed. More information will be available in the next few days. At that point, we hope to be on the right track when it comes to fixed costs and rent.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas: I hope you're making adjustments. It's totally unacceptable that only 10% of businesses who need the relief can get it. What's more, the public health crisis has brought its share of change for businesses, particularly with the new health measures. They have to plan, implement preventative measures, have response plans, train staff and acquire the necessary equipment. In order to do those things, protect the public and reopen their doors, businesses have to assume the costs. Will the government commit to providing financial assistance to businesses, especially those in the tourism industry, so they can cover the costs of putting the new health measures in place?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I know the situation is very serious in rural communities. That's why we've invested $71million in community futures development corporations, or CFDCs, and business development centres. Both of those will go a long way towards helping businesses in rural communities, and I have no doubt that we will continue working together to find other solutions.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Now we'll move on to the honourable member for Calgary Centre, Mr. McLean.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the terms for accessing the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance, CECRA, is that you must have a mortgage on the property. One of the key terms of eligibility for this support is that the landlord owes money to a bank. Will the Minister of Finance tell us if this program was designed for the benefit of landlords and tenants or for the benefit of banks?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question from the member opposite. I think that it's important to know that commercial rent and landlord-tenant relationships are provincial jurisdictions. Therefore, as we embarked on an approach that could enable landlords and tenants to get to an agreement that would help both, we used the CMHC as a vehicle from which we could do that. We think that we've come up with a program that provides advantages for the landlords and advantages for the tenants, and we will be announcing details that will include how mortgages can be put in place for those landlords who don't currently have them.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: Brookfield Properties, a large Canadian firm, announced that its rent collections on commercial properties for April were 15% of the lease terms. Luckily, Brookfield has another company, Brookfield Business Partners, poised to help by buying up the distressed equity of the firms that owe them money. Did the Minister of Finance design CECRA with this outcome in mind, washing out individual investors and small companies and transferring that value into the hands of vulture financiers who hold all the cards?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: In fact, Mr. Chair, we designed this program exactly with the idea in mind of the challenge that we're seeing. We're seeing that in many cases commercial tenants are not actually able to pay their rent, so landlords are not getting the rent that's due. Therefore, there's a mutual interest from tenants and from landlords in coming to an agreement. By providing funding through the mortgage system to those landlords, we recognize that we'll enable both of those two parts of the equation to come to an agreement that we think will be advantageous for the sector over the long term.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: In the past two months, the Bank of Canada has tripled the size of its balance sheet to almost $400 billion, with more to come, Mr. Chair. In the 2008 recession, the world's major economies endured quantitative easing on a previously unknown scale, most of which has not since been unwound. Canada endured a then-record $50-billion deficit, but we did not need to enter the uncertain world of QE, quantitative easing, as a result of the strength of Canada's oil and gas industry. Will the minister acknowledge that this government's oil and gas policy mismanagement has led to economic decline, necessitating hundreds of billions of dollars of quantitative easing?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me challenge one assumption implicit in the honourable member's question, the assumption that our government fails to understand the importance of the oil and gas sector to our economy. Let me quote some leaders from Alberta and their response to the lease program. Tim McMillan, CEO of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, said, I think this is essential. Not all companies are going to need to tap into this sort of liquidity...but some that are normally high-quality, stable companies likely will be looking for this program to provide a certain amount of liquidity for them. CAPP understands that we are supporting Canadian companies, including in the oil and gas sector, and I would urge the members opposite to understand that as well.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean: BlackRock is one of the world's largest investment companies, managing trillions of dollars of bonds. It has lobbied regulators around the world to not be named a systemically important financial institution. The Bank of Canada unexpectedly engaged BlackRock as an adviser on its bond-buying plans. Is the Minister of Finance mindful of the conflict of interest that exists between the world's largest bond manager, BlackRock, and the advice it's giving the Bank of Canada on buying bonds?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, the member opposite might know that the Bank of Canada is independent from the government, and as such we are not privy to those decisions and support the continuing independence of the Bank of Canada from the government.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. McLean, you may have just a short question.\nMr. Greg McLean: The finance sector seems to be getting well served during this economic crisis. Will the minister endeavour to provide a more balanced program of benefits going forward for the sake of the entire Canadian economy, and not just the Brookfields, the BlackRocks and the big banks?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I think the notion that one sector is being advantaged versus another actually defies the facts. More than 550,000 loans have gone out to small businesses in the form of $40,000 loans per business over a very short time period. Canada is a leader in this regard, and we'll continue to support businesses all across Canada with loans and support as they need it to get ourselves through this difficult time.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go to the last five-minute round. We'll begin with the honourable member for Carleton, Mr. Poilievre.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Thank you, Mr. Chair. What is the dollar value of the total assets of the Government of Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, earlier today we were given incorrect information on the Auditor General. I would like to be able to provide more information at my next response.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the total dollar value of the assets of the Government of Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, the member for Carleton said that the previous government spent more on the Auditor General than the current government, and that is actually incorrect.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the total dollar value of the assets of the Government of Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, in fact, in the last full year of the Harper government, in 2014-15, the total spending on the Auditor General was $85.8 million.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the dollar value of the assets of the Government of Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, in the most recent year, 2018-19, the total spend was $92.4 million for the Auditor General, showing a 7.7% increase.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: What are the total liabilities of the Government of Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would just say it's shocking when people bring forward incorrect information to the House to try to make a point.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What are the total liabilities of the Government of Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we will continue to support Canadians through this time, with support not only for businesses but for individuals to get through and get a bridge to a better time.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is just the dollar value?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, that's a continuing commitment.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: I know we shouldn't ask the minister about numbers. He's just the finance minister, after all, but what is the equity on the Government of Canada's balance sheet?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I would advise the member for Carleton to memorize those Auditor General figures for his next foray into the House of Commons.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: The minister has claimed that our balance sheet is strong. There are three components to a balance sheet: the assets, the liabilities, and the equity. The minister doesn't know any of the three, so clearly he doesn't actually know anything about our balance sheet. That's reassuring. According to the Auditor General, the negative net worth of our Government of Canada will be as much as $1 trillion by the end of this fiscal year. Can the minister, if he is familiar with any of these numbers, tell us if it is possible that his government will hit $1 trillion of debt this year?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I want to assure Canadians that our approach will be to continue to make investments on their behalf. That is available to us because of our strong fiscal position, but we will continue to take that approach, which we think is the appropriate one.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: Will it be $1 trillion, yes or no?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, as I said, we will continue to focus on the importance of supporting Canadians.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the size of our current national debt?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I think what will happen as we do that is that we will allow ourselves to have a stronger economy at the end because of these investments.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the size of the national debt?\nHon. Bill Morneau: We have always seen, Mr. Chair, that these investments are not only supporting Canadians; they are supporting businesses so that we do have a strong economy and a strong fiscal position coming out of this.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: Does the finance minister know the size of our national debt?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I will continue to focus our efforts, as we believe we should, on supporting Canadians through this time.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: Does the finance minister know what $1 trillion is?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we are continuing to make investments that we believe are prudent in the face of this economic challenge, supporting Canadians as we know we need to.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the total dollar value of all the public and private debt in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we know that by supporting Canadians, by continuing to make investments, we will enable Canadiens to have less debt themselves because that\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Poilievre.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: What is the total debt, public and private, as a share of GDP in Canada?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, the important consideration here is that the federal government is taking a position that we should support Canadians so that they don't take on the debt themselves.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Yet they have. They have record household debt, record corporate debt and growing government debt. The finance minister doesn't seem to know any of the basic numbers that would be required to govern the finances of the Government of Canada, so I will give him one last chance. Based on his latest briefings, what is the total size of Canada's national debt? If he doesn't know, can he have the humility and honesty just to say so?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member for slightly more time in this response to say that we think the best thing to do during this time period is to invest in Canadians. We know that in that way they will not be supporting as much debt themselves. The government is in a fiscal position that enables us to take on debt at this time, which we think is appropriate to get our economy to a better position at the end of this crisis. We think that's appropriate. We will continue to take that approach.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. government House leader is rising on a point of order.\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: I have a point of order, Mr.Chair. I think we need to keep the interpreters in mind and the work they are doing, particularly when it comes to the flow and speed of questions. As the interpreters have already mentioned, they've suffered more injuries during this short time than during all of last year. Mr.Chair, I kindly ask that you make sure members take that into account. Thank you.\n"
    ],
    "length": 29803,
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  },
  {
    "id": 63,
    "question": "Summarize what was said about digits form",
    "answer": "The group discussed digits data, recent ASR results, the status of transcriptions, and disk space and storage format issues. Approximately two hours of digits have been recorded, half of which have been extracted. Researchers doing ASR are looking into methods for generating a better channel-based segmentation to improve recognition results for close-talking microphone data. Transcription checking procedures were reviewed, and efforts to coordinate the channelization and presegmention of data with the tightening of time bins were discussed. The group also talked about downsampling and strategies for coping with low disk space.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad D: And we already got the crash out of the way . It did crash , so I feel much better , earlier .\nProfessor F:  Yeah .\nPostdoc E: Interesting . Hmm .\nProfessor F: Will you get the door , and {disfmarker} ? \nGrad D: OK , so um .\nProfessor F: OK . You collected an agenda , huh ?\nGrad D: I did collect an agenda . So I 'm gonna go first . Mwa - ha - ha ! It shouldn't take too long .\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Um , so we 're pretty much out of digits . We 've gone once through the set . Um , so the only thing I have to do\nProfessor F: No there 's only ten .\nGrad D: Yeah , that 's right . so I {disfmarker} I just have to go through them\nProfessor F: Well , OK .\n",
      "Grad D: and uh pick out the ones that have problems , and either correct them or have them re - read . So we probably have like four or five more forms to be read , to be once through the set . I 've also extracted out about an hour 's worth . We have about two hours worth . I extracted out about an hour 's worth which are the f digits with {disfmarker} for which whose speaker have speaker forms , have filled out speaker forms . Not everyone 's filled out a speaker form . So I extracted one for speakers who have speaker forms and for meetings in which the \" key \" file and the transcript files are parsable . Some of the early key files , it looks like , were done by hand , and so they 're not automatically parsable and I have to go back and fix those . So what that means is we have about an hour of transcribed digits that we can play with . Um , Liz {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: So you think two {disfmarker} you think two hours is the {disfmarker} is the total that we have ?\nGrad D: Yep , yeah .\nProfessor F: And you think we th uh , I {disfmarker} I didn't quite catch all these different things that are not quite right , but you think we 'll be able to retrieve the other hour , reasonably ?\nGrad D: Yes , absolutely .\nProfessor F: OK .\n",
      "Grad D: So it 's just a question of a little hand - editing of some files and then waiting for more people to turn in their speaker forms . I have this web - based speaker form , and I sent mail to everyone who hadn't filled out a speaker form , and they 're slowly s trickling in .\nProfessor F: So the relevance of the speaker form here , s\nGrad D: It 's for labeling the extracted audio files .\nProfessor F: Oh , OK .\nGrad D: By speaker ID and microphone type .\nProfessor F: Wasn't like whether they were giving us permission to use their digits or something .\n",
      "Grad D: No , I spoke with Jane about that and we sort of decided that it 's probably not an issue that {disfmarker} We edit out any of the errors anyway . Right ? So the there are no errors in the digits ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: you 'll always read the string correctly . So I can't imagine why anyone would care . So the other topic with digits is uh , Liz would like to elicit different prosodics , and so we tried last week with them written out in English . And it just didn't work at all because no one grouped them together . So it just sounded like many many more lines instead of anything else . So in conversations with Liz and uh Jane we decided that if you wrote them out as numbers instead of words it would elicit more phone number , social security number - like readings . The problem with that is it becomes numbers instead of digits . When I look at this , that first line is \" sixty one , sixty two , eighteen , eighty six , ten . \" Um , and so the question is does anyone care ? Um , I 've already spoken with Liz and she feels that , correct me if I 'm wrong , that for her , connected numbers is fine ,\n",
      "Postdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: as opposed to connected digits . Um , I think two hours is probably fine for a test set , but it may be a little short if we actually wanna do training and adaptation and all that other stuff .\nProfessor F: Yeah Um , do um you want different prosodics , so if you always had the same groupings you wouldn't like that ? Is that correct ?\nPhD G: Well , we actually figured out a way to {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yeah , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\nPhD G: the {disfmarker} the groupings are randomly generated .\n",
      "Professor F: No but , I was asking if that was something you really cared about because if it wasn't , it seems to me if you made it really specifically telephone groupings that maybe people wouldn't , uh , go and do numbers so much . You know if it if it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD G: I think they may still do it , um ,\nProfessor F: Maybe some , but I probably not so much .\nPhD B: What about putting a hyphen between the numbers in the group ?\nPhD G: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Right ? So if you {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if you have uh\nGrad D: Six dash one , you mean ?\nProfessor F: if you go six six six uh dash uh two nine three one .\nPhD G: I {disfmarker} well OK {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it might help , I would like to g get away from having only one specific grouping .\nProfessor F: That 's what I was asking , yeah .\nPhD G: Um , so if that 's your question ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: but I mean it seems to me that , at least for us , we can learn to read them as digits\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nPhD G: if that 's what people want . I {disfmarker} I 'm\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nPhD G: don't think that 'd be that hard to read them as single digits .\nPostdoc E: I agree .\nPhD G: Um , and it seems like that might be better for you guys since then you 'll have just more digit data ,\nGrad D: Right .\nPhD G: and that 's always a good thing .\nGrad D: Yep .\n",
      "PhD G: It 's a little bit better for me too because the digits are easier to recognize . They 're better trained than the numbers .\nGrad D: So we could just , uh , put in the instructions \" read them as digits \" .\nProfessor F: Right .\nPhD G: Right . Right , read them as single digits , so sixty - one w is read as six one ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: and if people make a mistake we {disfmarker}\nGrad D: How about \" O \" versus \" zero \" ?\n",
      "Professor F: I mean , the other thing is we could just bag it because it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's - I 'm not worrying about it I mean , because we do have digits training data that we have from uh from OGI . I 'm sorry , digits {disfmarker} numbers training that we have from OGI , we 've done lots and lots of studies with that . And um .\nPhD G: But it 's nice to get it in this room with the acous\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: I mean {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: No , no , I guess what I 'm saying is that\nGrad D: Just let them read it how they read it .\nProfessor F: to some extent maybe we could just read them {disfmarker} have them read how {disfmarker} how they read it and it just means that we have to expand our {disfmarker} our vocabulary out to stuff that we already have .\n",
      "PhD G: Right . Well that 's fine with me as long as {disfmarker} It 's just that I didn't want to cause the people who would have been collecting digits the other way to not have the digits .\nProfessor F: Yeah . We can go back to the other thing later .\nPhD G: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: I mean we s we {disfmarker} we 've {disfmarker} We can do this for awhile\nPhD G: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: and then go back to digits for awhile , or um . Do yo I mean , do you want {disfmarker} do you want this {disfmarker} Do you need training data or adaptation data out of this ?\nPhD G: OK .\nProfessor F: How much of this do you need ? with uh the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: It 's actually unclear right now . I just thought well we 're {disfmarker} if we 're collec collecting digits , and Adam had said we were running out of the TI forms , I thought it 'd be nice to have them in groups , and probably , all else being equal , it 'd be better for me to just have single digits\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD G: since it 's , you know , a recognizer 's gonna do better on those anyway , um , and it 's more predictable . So we can know from the transcript what the person said and the transcriber , in general .\n",
      "Professor F: OK , well if you pre\nPhD G: But if they make mistakes , it 's no big deal if the people say a hundred instead of \" one OO \" . and also w maybe we can just let them choose \" zero \" versus \" O \" as they {disfmarker} as they like because even the same person c sometimes says \" O \" and sometimes says \" zero \" in different context ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: and that 's sort of interesting . So I don't have a Specific need cuz if I did I 'd probably try to collect it , you know , without bothering this group , but If we can try it {disfmarker}\nGrad D: OK so {disfmarker} so I can just add to the instructions to read it as digits not as connected numbers .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Right , and you can give an example like , you know , \" six {disfmarker} sixty - one would be read as six one \" .\nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Mm - hmm . And i actually it 's no more artificial than what we 've been doing with words .\nPhD G: And I think people will get it .\nPostdoc E: I 'm sure people can adapt to this , read it single .\nPhD G: Right , right .\nPostdoc E: The spaces already bias it toward being separated .\nPhD G: It 's just easier to read .\nPostdoc E: And I know I 'm gonna find this easier than words .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad D: Oh yeah , absolutely , cognitively it 's much easier .\n",
      "PhD G: OK I also had a hard {disfmarker} hard time with the words ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: but then we went back and forth on that . OK , so let 's give that a try\nGrad D: OK . And is the spacing alright or do you think there should be more space between digits and groups ?\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD G: and {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Or is that alright ?\nPhD G: I mean what do other people think cuz you guys are reading {comment} them .\nPostdoc E: I think that i it 's fine .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc E: I it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} to me it looks like you 've got the func the idea of grouping and you have the grou the idea of separation\nPhD G: OK .\nPostdoc E: and , you know , it 's just a matter of u i the instructions , that 's all .\nPhD G: Great . OK .\nGrad D: And I think there are about ten different gouping patterns\nProfessor F: Let 's try it .\nPhD G: Well let 's give it a try .\nGrad D: isn't that right , Liz ? That we did .\n",
      "PhD G: Righ - right , and you just {disfmarker} they 're randomly {nonvocalsound} generated and randomly assigned to digits .\nPostdoc E: I did {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: So we have {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Go ahead .\nProfessor F: Sorry , I {disfmarker} I was just gonna say , so we have in the vicinity of forty hours of {disfmarker} of recordings now . And you 're saying two hours , uh , is digits , so that 's roughly the ratio then ,\nGrad D: Yep .\n",
      "Professor F: something like twenty {disfmarker} twenty to one . Which I guess makes {disfmarker} makes sense . So if we did another forty hours of recordings then we could get another couple hours of this .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor F: Um , yeah like you say , I think a couple hours for a {disfmarker} for a {disfmarker} for a test {disfmarker} test set 's OK . It 'd be nice to get , you know , more later because we 'll {disfmarker} we might use {disfmarker} use this up , uh , in some sense ,\n",
      "Postdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor F: but {disfmarker} but uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Yeah , I also would like to argue for that cuz it {disfmarker} it seems to me that , um , there 's a real strength in having the same test replicated in {disfmarker} a whole bunch of times and adding to that basic test bank .\nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Hmm ? Cuz then you have , you know , more and more , u chances to get away from random errors . And I think , um , the other thing too is that right now we have sort of a stratified sample with reference to dialect groups , and it might be {disfmarker} there might be an argument to be made for having uh f for replicating all of the digits that we 've done , which were done by non - native speakers so that we have a core that totally replicates the original data set , which is totally American speakers , and then we have these stratified additional language groups overlapping certain aspects of the database .\n",
      "Grad D: Right . I think that uh trying to duplicate , spending too much effort trying to duplicate the existing TI - digits probably isn't too worthwhile because the recording situation is so different .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad D: It 's gonna be very hard to be comparable .\nPostdoc E: Except that if you have the stimuli {pause} comparable , then it says something about the {disfmarker} the contribution of setting\nProfessor F: No it 's {disfmarker} it 's not the same .\nPostdoc E: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: A little bit , but the other differences are so major .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah I mean read versus not .\nPostdoc E: OK .\nProfessor F: They 're such major sources of variance that it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: What 's an example of a {disfmarker} of m some of the other differences ? Any other a difference ?\nProfessor F: Well i i individual human glottis {vocalsound} is going to be different for each one ,\nPostdoc E: OK .\nProfessor F: you know , it 's just {disfmarker} There 's so many things .\n",
      "Grad D: Well , and not just that ,\nPostdoc E: OK .\nProfessor F: it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and enunciation .\nGrad D: I mean the uh the corpus itself . I mean , we 're collecting it in a read digit in a particular list , and I 'm sure that they 're doing more specific stuff . I mean if I remember correctly it was like postman reading zipcodes and things like that .\nProfessor F: TI - digits was ?\nGrad D: I thought so .\nProfessor F: I thought {disfmarker} I thought it was read .\n",
      "Grad D: Was it read ?\nProfessor F: Yeah , I think the reading zipcode stuff you 're thinking of would be OGI .\nGrad D: Oh , I may well be .\nProfessor F: Yeah , no TI - digits was read in th in read in the studio I believe .\nGrad D: I haven't ever listened to TI - digits . So I don't really know how it compares .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad D: But {disfmarker} but regardless it 's gonna {disfmarker} it 's hard to compare cross - corpus .\n",
      "Professor F: But it {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} It - it 's different people {pause} is the {disfmarker} is the core thing .\nGrad D: So .\nPostdoc E: OK , fine .\n",
      "Professor F: And they 're different circumstances with different recording environment and so forth , so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's really pretty different . But I think the idea of using a set thing was just to give you some sort of framework , so that even though you couldn't do exact comparisons , it wouldn't be s valid scientifically at least it 'd give you some kind of uh frame of reference . Uh , you know it 's not {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Hey Liz , What {disfmarker} what do the groupings represent ?\nPostdoc E: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: You said there 's like ten different groupings ?\nPhD G: Right , just groupings in terms of number of groups in a line , and number of digits in a group , and the pattern of groupings .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Are the patterns {disfmarker} like are they based on anything or\nPhD G: Um , I {disfmarker} I just roughly looked at what kinds of digit strings are out there , and they 're usually grouped into either two , three , or four , four digits at a time .\nPhD B: Oh .\n",
      "PhD G: And they can have , I mean , actually , things are getting longer and longer . In the old days you probably only had three sequences , and telephone numbers were less , and so forth . So , there 's between , um {disfmarker} Well if you look at it , there are between like three and five groups , and each one has between two and four groupings and {disfmarker} I purposely didn't want them to look like they were in any kind of pattern .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nPhD G: So\nGrad D: And which group appears is picked randomly , and what the numbers are are picked randomly .\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: So unlike the previous one , which I d simply replicated TI - digits , this is generated randomly .\nPhD G: Right .\nPhD A: Oh OK .\nPhD B: Mmm , oh , OK .\nPhD G: But I think it 'd be great i to be able to compare digits , whether it 's these digits or TI - digits , to speakers , um , and compare that to their spontaneous speech , and then we do need you know a fair amount of {disfmarker} of digit data because you might be wearing a different microphone\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: and , I mean {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker} it 's nice to have the digits you know , replicated many times . Especially for speakers that don't talk a lot .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD G: So {vocalsound} um , for adaptation . No , I 'm serious ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yeah all we have for some people is digits .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: so we have a problem with acoustic adaptation , and we 're not using the digit data now , but you know {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: Oh , you 're not .\nPhD G: Not for adaptation , nope . v W we 're not {disfmarker} we were running adaptation only on the data that we ran recognition on and I 'd {disfmarker} As soon as someone started to read transcript number , that 's read speech and I thought \" well , we 're gonna do better on that ,\nGrad D: Oh I see .\nPhD G: that 's not fair to use \" .\nGrad D: Oh yeah that 's true , absolutely .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD G: But , it might be fair to use the data for adaptation , so . So those speakers who are very quiet , {comment} shy {disfmarker}\nGrad D: That would be interesting to see whether that helps .\nPhD G: r Right {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Like Adam ?\nGrad D: Do you think that would help adapting on {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , I have a real problem with that .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Well , it sh I mean it 's the same micropho see the nice thing is we have that in the {disfmarker} in the same meeting ,\n",
      "Grad D: Right . Same {disfmarker} same acoustics ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: and so you don't get {disfmarker}\nGrad D: same microphone ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad D: same channel .\nPhD G: Right , and so I still like the idea of having some kind of {pause} digit data .\nGrad D: OK . Good .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah I mean , for the {disfmarker} for the um acoustic research , for the signal - processing , farfield stuff , I see it as {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} as the place that we start . But , th I mean , it 'd be nice to have twenty hours of digits data , but {disfmarker} but uh the truth is I 'm hoping that we {disfmarker} we through the {disfmarker} the stuff that {disfmarker} that you guys have been doing as you continue that , we get , uh , the best we can do on the spontaneous stuff uh , uh nearfield , and then um , we do a lot of the testing of the algorithms on the digits for the farfield , and at some point when we feel it 's mature and we understand what 's going on with it then we {disfmarker} we have to move on to the spontaneous data with the farfield . So .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Great .\nPhD G: The only thing that we don't have , I know this sounds weird , and maybe it 's completely stupid , but we don't have any overlapping digits .\nGrad D: Yeah , we talked about that a couple times .\nPhD G: An - yea I know it 's weird , but um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Overlapping digits !\nGrad D: The {disfmarker} the problem I see with trying to do overlapping digits is the cognitive load .\nPhD G: Alright everybody 's laughing . OK .\nGrad C: Dueling digits .\n",
      "Grad D: No it 's {disfmarker} it 's not stupid , it 's just {disfmarker} I mean , try to do it .\nPhD G: I 'm just talkin for the stuff that like Dan Ellis is gonna try ,\nGrad D: I mean , here , let 's try it .\nPhD G: you know , cross - talk cancellation .\nGrad D: You read the last line , I 'll read the first line .\nProfessor F: Let 's try it .\nPhD G: OK .\nPhD A: Oh !\n",
      "PhD G: Wait {disfmarker} oh it {disfmarker} these are all the same forms .\nProfessor F: Sixty - one .\nPhD G: OK {comment} So but {disfmarker}\nGrad D: So {disfmarker} so you read the last line , I 'll read the first line .\nProfessor F: No , I 'll p\nPhD G: So you plu you plug your ears .\nGrad D: Oh I guess if you plug you 're ears you could do it , but then you don't get the {disfmarker} the same effects .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: Well , what I mean is actually no not the overlaps that are well - governed linguistically , but the actual fact that there is speech coming from two people\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD G: and the beam - forming stuf all the acoustic stuff that like Dan Ellis and {disfmarker} and company want to do .\nGrad D: Oh I see .\nPhD G: Digits are nice and well behaved , I mean\nGrad D: I guess we could try .\nPhD G: Anyway , it 's just a thought .\nGrad D: We could try doing some .\nPhD G: It {disfmarker} it would go faster .\n",
      "PhD B: Parallel .\nPhD G: It would take one around {comment} amount of ti\nPhD B: It 's the P - make of digit reading .\nGrad D: Well {disfmarker} Well OK . Well let 's try it .\nPhD G: That 's right . I {disfmarker} I mea I 'm {disfmarker} I was sort of serious , but I really , I mean , I 'm {disfmarker} I don't feel strongly enough that it 's a good idea ,\nProfessor F: See , y\n",
      "Grad D: You do the last line , I 'll do the first line .\nPhD G: so .\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad D: O . {comment} That 's not bad .\nProfessor F: No , I can do it .\nPhD B: I couldn't understand a single thing you guys were saying .\nPhD G: A and that prosody was great , by the way .\nPostdoc E: I think it was numbers , but I 'm not sure .\nPhD G: It {disfmarker} it sort of sounded like a duet , or something .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD B: Performance art .\n",
      "Professor F: Alright , let 's try three at once you {disfmarker} you pick one in the middle .\nPhD A: The Aurora theater .\nPhD G: OK .\nProfessor F: Go .\nPhD G: I 'm sorry . I 'm mean I think it 's doable ,\nGrad D: The poor transcribers\nPhD G: I 'm just {disfmarker}\nGrad D: they 're gonna hate us .\n",
      "PhD G: So , we {disfmarker} we could have a round like where you do two at a time , and then the next person picks up when the first guy 's done , or something .\nPhD A: So pairwise .\nProfessor F: Oh like a round , yeah , like in a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Like a ,\nPhD A: Yeah , just pairwise ,\nProfessor F: yeah .\nPhD G: what do you call it ?\nPhD A: or yeah .\nGrad C: Round .\nGrad D: A round .\nProfessor F: Row , row , row your boat .\n",
      "PhD G: Li - a r like {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: yeah , like that .\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD B: It 's gonna require some coordination .\nPhD G: Then it would go like h twice as fast , or {pause} a third as fast .\nPostdoc E: You have to have a similar pace .\nPhD G: Anyway , it 's just a thought .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: I 'm actually sort of serious if it would help people do that kind o but the people who wanna work on it we should talk to them .\n",
      "Professor F: I don't think we 're gonna collect vast amounts of data that way ,\nPhD G: So .\nGrad D: Mmm .\nProfessor F: but I think having a little bit might at least be fun for somebody like Dan to play around with ,\nPhD G: OK .\nGrad D: I think maybe if we wanted to do that we would do it as a separate session ,\nProfessor F: yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad D: something like that rather than doing it during a real meeting and you know , do two people at a time then three people at a time and things like that . So .\nPhD G: Can try it out .\n",
      "Grad D: See {disfmarker} see what Dan thinks .\nPhD G: If we have nothing {disfmarker} if we have no agenda we could do it some week .\nGrad D: Yeah , right .\nProfessor F: Yeah , yeah . Spend the whole time reading digits with different qu quantities .\nPhD G: OK .\nGrad D: I thought this was gonna be fast .\nPostdoc E: c c Can I can I have an another {disfmarker} another question w about this ?\nGrad D: Oh well .\n",
      "Postdoc E: So , um , there are these digits , which are detached digits , but there are other words that contain the same general phon phoneme sequences . Like \" wonderful \" has \" one \" in it and {disfmarker} and Victor Borge had a {disfmarker} had a piece on this where he inflated the digits . Well , I wonder if there 's , um , an if there would be a value in having digits that are in essence embedded in real words to compare in terms of like the articulation of \" one \" in \" wonderful \" versus \" one \" as a digit being read .\nProfessor F: That 's \" two \" bad . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: I 'm all \" four \" it .\nPostdoc E: There you go .\nGrad D: Not after I \" eight \" though .\nProfessor F: Uh , they don't all work as well , do they ? Hmm . What does nine work in ?\nGrad C: Nein !\nGrad D: Uh .\nProfessor F: Uh ,\nGrad C: You scream it .\nGrad D: Nein ! You have to be German ,\nProfessor F: Oh . In German ,\nPhD A: That 's German , yeah .\nPhD B: It 's great for the Germans .\nProfessor F: yeah .\nGrad D: yeah .\nPhD G: Oh , oh !\n",
      "Postdoc E: Nein .\nProfessor F: That 's right !\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad D: Oh !\nGrad C: It only sounds w good when you scream it , though . So .\nProfessor F: I think everybody 's a little punchy here {vocalsound} today .\nPostdoc E: Well , I mean , I just wanted to offer that as a possible task\nProfessor F: Yes .\n",
      "Postdoc E: because , you know , if we were to each read his embedded numbers words in sent in sentences cuz it 's like an entire sketch he does and I wouldn't take the inflated version . So he talks about the woman being \" two - derful \" , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} a But , you know , if it were to be deflated , just the normal word , it would be like a little story that we could read .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc E: I don't know if it would be useful for comparison , but it 's embedded numbers .\n",
      "Grad D: I think for something like that we 'd be better off doing like uh TIMIT .\nProfessor F: Well I don't know . Well I think the question is what the research is , so I mean , I presume that the reason that you wanted to have these digits this way is because you wanted to actually do some research looking at the prosodic form here .\nGrad D: Hmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah OK .\nPhD G: Right , yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So if somebody wanted to do that , if they wanted to look at the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the difference of the uh phones in the digits in the context of a word versus uh the digits {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a non - digit word versus in digit word , uh that would be a good thing to do , but I think someone would have to express interest in that .\nPostdoc E: I see . OK .\nProfessor F: I think , to {disfmarker} I mean if you were interested in it then we could do it , for instance .\nPostdoc E: OK , thank you .\n",
      "Grad D: OK , are we done with digits ?\nPostdoc E: Huh .\nGrad D: Um , We have ASR results from Liz , transcript status from Jane , and disk space and storage formats from Don . Does {disfmarker} do we have any prefer preference on which way we wanna {disfmarker} we wanna go ?\nPhD G: Well I was actually gonna skip the ASR results part , in favor of getting the transcription stuff talked about\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: since I think that 's more important to moving forward , but I mean Morgan has this paper copy and if people have questions , um , it 's pretty preliminary in terms of ASR results because we didn't do anything fancy , but I think e just having the results there , and pointing out some main conclusions like it 's not the speaking style that differs , it 's the fact that there 's overlap that causes recognition errors . And then , the fact that it 's almost all insertion errors , which you would expect but you might also think that in the overlapped regions you would get substitutions and so forth , um , leads us to believe that doing a better segmentation , like your channel - based segmentation , or some kind of uh , echo cancellation to get basically back down to the individual speaker utterances would be probably all that we would need to be able to do good recognition on the {disfmarker} on the close - talking mikes .\n",
      "PhD A: So these {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Um , why don't you , if you have a hard copy , why don't you email it to the list .\nPhD G: So , that 's about the summary {disfmarker} But this is {disfmarker} Morgan has this paper .\nPhD A: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad D: Oh it 's in the paper .\nProfessor F: Yeah , so it 's the same thing ?\nPhD G: I mean he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: It 's the same thing I mailed to every everybody that w where it was ,\n",
      "PhD G: it {disfmarker} it 's that paper .\nGrad D: OK .\nPhD G: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad D: OK then , it 's already been mailed .\nPhD G: So , we basically , um , did a lot of work on that\nProfessor F: yeah .\nPhD G: and it 's {disfmarker} Let 's see , th I guess the other neat thing is it shows for sure w that the lapel , you know within speaker is bad .\nGrad D: Horrible ?\nPhD G: And it 's bad because it picks up the overlapping speech .\n",
      "PhD A: So , your {disfmarker} your ASR results were run on the channels synchronized ,\nPhD G: Yes , cuz that 's all that w had been transcribed at the time ,\nPhD A: OK . OK . OK .\nPhD G: um but as we {disfmarker} I mean I wanted to here more about the transcription . If we can get the channel asynchronous or the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD G: the closer t that would be very interesting for us\nPhD B: So if {disfmarker}\nPhD G: because we {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker} that 's why I only used the part from use\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: which we had uh about uh about the alt over all the channels\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD G: Right . That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah sure . Yeah .\nProfessor F: or mixed channel\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: rather mixed signal .\nPhD B: So if there was a segment of speech this long\nPhD G: cuz {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: and oh and someone said \" oh , \" the whole thing was passed to the recognizer ?\nGrad D: And someone said \" oh \" in the front {disfmarker} in the middle .\nPhD A: There were several speakers in it , yeah .\nPhD G: That 's right . In fact I {disfmarker} I pulled out a couple classic examples in case you wanna u use them in your talk of\nPhD B: That 's why there 's so many insertion errors ?\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Chuck on the lapel , so Chuck wore the lapel three out of four times .\n",
      "Grad C: Mmm .\nGrad D: I noticed that Chuck was wearing the lapel a lot .\nPhD B: Early on , yeah .\nPhD G: Um , yeah , and I wore the lapel once , and for me the lapel was OK . I mean I still {disfmarker} and I don't know why . I 'm {disfmarker} But um ,\nGrad D: Probably how you wear it {disfmarker} wore it I would guess .\nPhD G: for you it was {disfmarker} Or who was next to me or something like that .\nGrad C: Yeah , where you were sitting probably affected it .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nPhD G: Right , but when Chuck wore the lapel and Morgan was talking there 're a couple really long utterances where Chuck is saying a few things inside , and it 's picking up all of Morgan 's words pretty well and so the rec you know , there 're error rates because of insertion {disfmarker} Insertions aren't bounded , so with a one - word utterance and ten insertions you know you got huge error rate .\nGrad D: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: And that 's {disfmarker} that 's where the problems come in . So I this is sort of what we expected , but it 's nice to be able to {disfmarker} to show it .\nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: And also I just wanted to mention briefly that , um , uh Andreas and I called up Dan Ellis who 's still stuck in Switzerland , and we were gonna ask him if {disfmarker} if there 're {disfmarker} you know , what 's out there in terms of echo cancellation and things like that . Not that we were gonna do it , but we wanted to know what would need to be done .\nGrad D: And he said , \" Lots lots lots lots . \"\nPhD G: And he {disfmarker} We 've given him the data we have so far , so these sychronous cases where there are overlap .\n",
      "PhD A: Yep .\nPhD G: And he 's gonna look into trying to run some things that are out there and see how well it can do\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD G: because right now we 're not able to actually report on recognition in a real paper , like a Eurospeech paper , because it would look sort of premature .\nPhD B: So {disfmarker} So the idea is that you would take this big hunk where somebody 's only speaking a small amount in it , and then try to figure out where they 're speaking {comment} based on the other peopl\n",
      "PhD G: Right . Or who 's {disfmarker} At any point in time who 's the foreground speaker , who 's the background speaker .\nPhD A: So yeah {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I thought we were just gonna move the boundaries in .\nPhD A: Yeah , should it {disfmarker}\nPhD G: So .\nGrad D: Well that 's with the hand stuff .\nPhD G: So there 's like {disfmarker}\nGrad D: But how would you do that automatically ?\nPhD G: Well ther there 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , I 've actually done some experiments with cross - correlation\nPhD B: Right .\nPhD A: and it seems to work pretty well to {disfmarker} to get rid of those {disfmarker} those overlaps ,\nGrad D: I mean that that 's the sort of thing that you would do .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD A: yeah .\nGrad D: So .\nPhD G: Yeah . Exactly , so it 's {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So why do you want to do echo cancellation ?\n",
      "PhD G: Um , it would be techniques used from adaptive {disfmarker} adaptive echo cancellation which I don't know enough about to talk about .\nPhD B: Uh - huh .\nProfessor F: It {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} it just to r to remove cross - talk .\nPhD G: Um .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: But , right , um , and that would be similar to what you 're also trying to do , but using um , you know , more than energy {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: I {disfmarker} I don't know what exactly would go into it .\nPhD A: Yeah , sure .\nPhD B: So it would be {disfmarker}\nPhD G: So the idea is to basically run this on the whole meeting . and get the locations , which gives you also the time boundaries of the individual speak\nPhD B: OK . So do sort of what he 's already {disfmarker} what he 's trying to do .\nPhD G: Right . Except that there are many techniques for the kinds of cues , um , that you can use to do that .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , in another way ,\nPhD B: OK , I s I see .\nPhD A: yeah . Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah . I see .\nProfessor F: Yeah , Dave {disfmarker} Dave uh is , um , also gonna be doin usin playing around with echo cancellation for the nearfield farfield stuff ,\nPhD G: So .\nProfessor F: so we 'll be {disfmarker}\nPhD G: And I guess Espen ? This {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} is he here too ?\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: May also be working {disfmarker} So it would just be ver that 's really the next step because we can't do too much , you know , on term in terms of recognition results knowing that this is a big problem\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: um , until we can do that kind of processing . And so , once we have some {disfmarker} some of yours ,\nPhD A: OK . Yeah I 'm working on it .\nPhD G: and @ @ we 'll move on .\n",
      "PhD B: I think this also ties into one of the things that Jane is gonna talk about too .\nGrad D: Um ,\nPhD G: OK .\nGrad D: I also wanted to say I have done all this chopping up of digits ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: so I have some naming conventions that we should try to agree on . So let 's do that off - line ,\nPhD G: Oh right .\nGrad D: we don't need to do it during the meeting .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\nPhD G: Right . Definitely {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: And {disfmarker} and I have scripts that will extract it out from \" key \" files\nPhD G: Uh , and Don should {disfmarker}\nGrad D: and {disfmarker} and do all the naming automatically ,\nPhD G: OK .\nGrad C: Alright .\nGrad D: so you don't have to do it by hand .\nPhD G: Great .\nGrad C: You 've compiled the list of , uh , speaker names ?\nPhD G: So that that 's it for the {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Speakers and {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Not names , but I Ds .\nGrad D: Yep . Yeah , names {disfmarker} names in the {disfmarker} names to I Ds ,\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: so you\nPhD G: Great .\nGrad D: and it does all sorts of matches because the way people filled out names is different on every single file so it does a very fuzzy sort of match .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad C: Cool .\nPhD G: So at this point we can sort of finalize the naming , and so forth ,\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Yep .\n",
      "PhD G: and we 're gonna basically re rewrite out these waveforms that we did because as you notice in the paper your \" M O in one meeting and \" M O - two \" in another meeting and it 's {disfmarker} we just need to standardize the\nGrad C: Yeah . That was my fault .\nPhD G: um , no it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: No , I didn't notice that actually . \nPhD G: um , that 's why those comments are s {vocalsound} are in there .\nGrad C: Yeah . Then disregard it then .\n",
      "Grad D: Yep . So th I now have a script that you can just say basically look up Morgan ,\nPhD G: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Right . OK .\nGrad D: and it will give you his ID .\nPhD G: Great , great .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: So . Um ,\nPhD G: Terrific .\nGrad D: alright . Do we {disfmarker} Don , you had disk space and storage formats . Is that something we need to talk about at the meeting , or should you just talk with Chuck at some other time ?\n",
      "Grad C: Um , I had some general questions just about the compression algorithms of shortening waveforms and I don't know exactly who to ask . I thought that maybe you would be the {disfmarker} the person to talk to . So , is it a lossless compression {comment} when you compress ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: so {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Entropy coding .\nGrad C: It just uses entropy coding ?\nGrad D: So .\nGrad C: OK . So , I mean , I guess my question would be is I just got this new eighteen gig drive installed . Um , yeah , which is {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: And I assume half of it is scratch and half of it is {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: I 'm not exactly sure how they partitioned it .\nGrad D: Probably , yeah .\nGrad C: But um ,\nProfessor F: That 's typical , huh .\nGrad C: yeah , I don't know what 's typical here , but um , it 's local though , so {disfmarker}\nGrad D: That doesn't matter .\nGrad C: But {disfmarker}\nGrad D: You can access it from anywhere in ICSI . N {disfmarker}\nGrad C: OK . Alright . How do you do that ?\n",
      "Professor F: In fact , this is an eighteen gig drive , {comment} or is it a thirty six gig drive with eighteen {disfmarker}\nGrad D: N {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Eighteen .\nPhD G: Eigh - eighteen . It was a spare that Dave had around {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Slash N slash machine name , slash X A in all likelihood .\nProfessor F: Oh OK .\nGrad C: Oh I see . OK . Alright , I did know that .\n",
      "Grad D: Um , so the {disfmarker} the only question is how much of it {disfmarker} The distinction between scratch and non - scratch is whether it 's backed up or not .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm . Right .\nGrad D: So what you wanna do is use the scratch for stuff that you can regenerate .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: So , the stuff that isn't backed up is not a big deal because disks don't crash very frequently ,\nGrad C: Right .\nGrad D: as long as you can regenerate it .\nGrad C: Right . I mean all of this stuff can be regenerated ,\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: it 's just a question {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Then put it all on scratch\nPhD G: Well the {disfmarker}\nGrad D: because we 're {disfmarker} ICSI is {disfmarker} is bottlenecked by backup .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm , very good point .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: So we wanna put {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Well I 'd leave all the {disfmarker} All the transcript stuff shouldn't {disfmarker} should be backed up ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: but all the waveform {disfmarker} {comment} Sound files should not be backed up ,\nGrad C: Yeah , I guess {disfmarker} Right .\nPhD G: the ones that you write out .\nGrad C: OK . So , I mean , I guess th the other question was then , should we shorten them , downsample them , or keep them in their original form ? Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: It just depends on your tools . I mean , because it 's not backed up and it 's just on scratch , if your sc tools can't take shortened format , I would leave them expanded ,\nGrad C: Right .\nGrad D: so you don't have to unshorten them every single time you wanna do anything .\nGrad C: OK .\nPhD G: We can downsample them ,\nGrad C: Do you think that 'd be OK ?\nPhD G: so .\nGrad C: To downsample them ?\nPhD G: Yeah . Yeah , we get the same performance .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "PhD G: I mean the r the front - end on the SRI recognizer just downsamples them on the fly ,\nGrad C: Yeah , I guess the only argument against downsampling is to preserve just the original files in case we want to experiment with different filtering techniques .\nPhD G: so {disfmarker} So that 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yeah , if\nProfessor F: Yeah , l I mean over all our data , we {disfmarker} we want to not downsample .\n",
      "PhD G: fe You 'd {disfmarker} you wanna not . OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: So we 're {disfmarker} what we 're doing is we 're writing out {disfmarker} I mean , this is just a question . We 're writing out these individual segments , that wherever there 's a time boundary from Thilo , or {disfmarker} or Jane 's transcribers , you know , we {disfmarker} we chop it {pause} there .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: And the reason is so that we can feed it to the recognizer ,\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: and throw out ones that we 're not using and so forth .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: And those are the ones that we 're storing .\nGrad D: Yeah , as I said , since that 's {disfmarker} it 's regeneratable , what I would do is take {disfmarker} downsample it ,\nPhD G: So {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad D: and compress it however you 're e the SRI recognizer wants to take it in .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: ye\nPhD G: So we can't shorten them ,\nGrad C: Right .\nPhD G: but we can downsample them .\nProfessor F: Yeah , I mean {disfmarker} yeah , I 'm sorry .\nPhD G: So .\nProfessor F: As {disfmarker} yeah , as long as there is a {disfmarker} a form that we can come from again , that is not downsampled , {comment} then ,\nGrad C: r Yeah .\nPhD G: Oh yeah th\nGrad C: Yeah those are gonna be kept .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah . Yeah . That {disfmarker} that 's why we need more disk space\nProfessor F: uuu\nPhD G: cuz we 're basically duplicating the originals , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad D: Right .\nProfessor F: Then it 's fine . But for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} fu future research we 'll be doing it with different microphone positions and so on\nPhD G: Oh yeah .\nGrad C: Right .\nGrad D: Yep .\nPhD G: No . We always have the original long ones .\n",
      "Professor F: we would like to {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So the SRI front - end won't take a uh {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} a large audio file name and then a {disfmarker} a list of segments to chop out {comment} from that large audio file ?\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD B: They actually have to be chopped out already ?\nPhD G: Um , it 's better if they 're chopped out ,\nPhD B: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD G: and {disfmarker} and it {disfmarker} it will be {disfmarker} yeah , y we could probably write something to do that , but it 's actually convenient to have them chopped out cuz you can run them , you know , in different orders . You c you can actually move them around .\nGrad D: And that 's the whole point about the naming conventions\nPhD G: Uh , you can get rid of\nGrad D: is that you could run all the English speaking ,\nPhD G: Yeah , it it 's a lot faster .\nGrad D: all the native speakers , and all the non - native speakers ,\n",
      "PhD G: Right . You can grab everything with the word \" the \" in it ,\nGrad D: and all the men , and all the women . Yeah .\nPhD G: and it 's {disfmarker} That 's a lot quicker than actually trying to access the wavefile each time , find the time boundaries and {disfmarker} So in principle , yeah , you could do that ,\nPhD B: I don't {disfmarker} I don't think that 's really right .\nPhD G: but it 's {disfmarker} but it 's um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: \" That 's just not right , man . \" The {disfmarker} the point {disfmarker}\nPhD G: These are long {disfmarker} These are long {disfmarker}\nGrad D: So {disfmarker} so s For example , what if you wanted to run {disfmarker} run all the native speakers .\nPhD G: You know . This is an hour of speech .\n",
      "Grad D: Right , so if {disfmarker} if you did it that way you would have to generate a program that looks in the database somewhere , extracts out the language , finds the time - marks for that particular one , do it that way . The way they 're doing it , you have that already extracted and it 's embedded in the file name . And so , you know , you just say {disfmarker}\nPhD G: We - yeah that 's {disfmarker} so that 's part of it\nGrad D: y so you just say you know \" asterisk E asterisk dot wave \" , and you get what you want .\n",
      "PhD G: is {disfmarker} Right . And the other part is just that once they 're written out it {disfmarker} it is a lot faster to {disfmarker} to process them .\nGrad D: Rather than doing seeks through the file .\nPhD G: So . Otherwise , you 're just accessing {disfmarker}\nGrad D: This is all just temporary access , so I don't {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} it 's all just {disfmarker} It 's fine . You know . Fine to do it however is convenient .\nPhD G: Right .\n",
      "Professor F: I mean it just depends how big the file is . If the file sits in memory you can do extremely fast seeks\nPhD G: Right . The other thing is that , believe it or not {disfmarker} I mean , we have some {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: but .\nGrad D: Yeah and they don't . Two gig ?\nPhD G: So we 're also looking at these in Waves like for the alignments and so forth . You can't load an hour of speech into X Waves .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: You need to s have these small files , and in fact , even for the Transcriber program Um {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yes you can .\nPhD B: Yeah , you {disfmarker} you can give Waves a start and an end time . And middle .\nPhD G: Yeah , if you try to load s really long waveform into X Waves , you 'll be waiting there for {disfmarker}\nPhD B: No , I {disfmarker} I 'm not suggesting you load a long wave file ,\nPhD G: Oh\n",
      "PhD B: I 'm just saying you give it a start and an end time . And it 'll just go and pull out that section .\nGrad D: I th w The transcribers didn't have any problem with that did they Jane ?\nPostdoc E: What 's th u w in what respect ?\nPhD G: Loading the long {disfmarker}\nPhD A: No , with the Transcriber tool , it 's no problem .\nGrad D: They loaded {disfmarker} they loaded the long long files into X Waves .\nPhD G: It takes a very long ti\nPhD A: Yeah just to load a transcription\n",
      "Postdoc E: In the {disfmarker} in Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: \nPhD G: Right .\nPhD A: takes a long time ,\nPhD G: It takes a l very long time .\nPhD A: but not for the wavefile . The wavefile is there immediately .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad D: Are you talking about Transcriber or X Waves ?\nPhD G: Huh .\nPhD A: Yeah . Oh , I 'm tr talking about Transcriber .\nPhD G: Actually , you 're talking about Transcriber , right ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Because {disfmarker} because i we used X Waves to do the digits .\nPostdoc E: It was also true of the digits task which was X Waves .\nGrad D: And they were loading the full mixed files then ,\nPostdoc E: Yeah . Very quickly .\nGrad D: and it didn't seem to be any problem .\nPostdoc E: I agree .\nPhD G: Huh . Well we {disfmarker} we have a problem with that , you know , time - wise on a {disfmarker} It - it 's a lot slower to load in a long file ,\nGrad D: Hmm . Seemed really fast .\n",
      "PhD G: and also to check the file , so if you have a transcript , um ,\nGrad D: Well regardless , it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: I mean it 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think overall you could get everything to work by accessing the same waveform and trying to find two {disfmarker} you know , the begin and end times . Um , but I think it 's more efficient , if we have the storage space , to have the small ones .\nGrad D: and , it 's no problem , right ?\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Because it 's not backed up .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad D: So we just {disfmarker}\nPhD G: It 's {disfmarker} it 's just {disfmarker}\nGrad D: If we don't have a spare disk sitting around we go out and we buy ourselves an eighty gigabyte drive and make it all scratch space . You know , it 's not a big deal .\nPostdoc E: You 're right about the backup being {pause} a bottleneck .\nPhD G: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc E: It 's good to think towards scratch .\nPhD G: Yeah , so these wouldn't be backed up , the {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yep .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad D: So remind me afterward\nPhD G: And {disfmarker}\nGrad D: and I 'll {disfmarker} and we 'll look at your disk and see where to put stuff .\nGrad C: OK . Alright . I mean , I could just u do a DU on it right ? And just see which {disfmarker} how much is on each {disfmarker} So .\n",
      "Grad D: Yep . Each partition . And you wanna use , either XA or scratch .\nGrad C: OK .\nGrad D: Well X question mark , anything starting with X is scratch .\nGrad C: OK .\nPostdoc E: With two {disfmarker} two digits .\nGrad D: Two digits , right , XA , XB , XC . OK ?\nProfessor F: So , @ @ .\nGrad D: Jane ?\n",
      "Postdoc E: OK . So I got a little print - out here . So three on this side , three on this side . And I stapled them . OK . Alright so , first of all , um , there was a {disfmarker} an interest in the transcribe transcription , uh , checking procedures and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and I can {vocalsound} tell you first , uh , to go through the steps although you 've probably seen them . Um , as you might imagine , when you 're dealing with , um , r really c a fair number of words , and uh , @ @ {comment} natural speech which means s self - repairs and all these other factors , that there 're lots of things to be , um , s standardized and streamlined and checked on . And , um , so , I did a bunch of checks , and the first thing I did was obviously a spell - check . And at that point I discovered certain things like , um , \" accommodate \" with one \" M \" , that kind of thing . And then , in addition to that , I did an exhaustive listing of the forms in the data file , which included n detecting things like f faulty punctuation and things {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sorry to interrupt\nPostdoc E: Yeah ?\nPhD B: you could {disfmarker} could I just back up a little bit\nPostdoc E: Sure , please ,\nPhD B: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: yeah , please , please .\nPhD B: So you 're doing these {disfmarker} So {pause} the whole process is that the transcribers get the conversation\nPostdoc E: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nPhD B: and they do their pass over it .\nPostdoc E: Yes .\n",
      "PhD B: And then when they 're finished with it , it comes to you ,\nPostdoc E: That 's right .\nPhD B: and you begin these sanit these quality checks .\nPostdoc E: Exactly . I do these checks .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc E: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Exactly . Yeah . Thank you . And so , uh , I do a {disfmarker} an exhaustive listing of the forms {disfmarker} Actually , I will go through this in {disfmarker} in order , so if {disfmarker} if we could maybe wait and stick keep that for a second cuz we 're not ready for that .\nGrad D: So on the fifth page , seven down {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Exactly ! Exactly ! Alright so , {vocalsound} a spelling check first then an exhaustive listing of the , uh {disfmarker} all the forms in the data with the punctuation attached and at that point I pick up things like , oh , you know , word followed by two commas . And th and then another check involves , uh , being sure that every utterance has an identifiable speaker . And if not , then that gets checked . Then there 's this issue of glossing s w so - called \" spoken - forms \" . So there {disfmarker} mo for the most part , we 're keeping it standard wo word level transcription . But there 's {disfmarker} w And that that 's done with the assumption that {pause} pronunciation variants can be handled . So for things like \" and \" , the fact that someone doesn't say the \" D \" , uh that 's not important enough to capture in the transcription because a {disfmarker} a good pronunciation , uh , you know , model would be able to handle that . However , things like \" cuz \" where you 're lacking an entire very prominent first syllable , and furthermore , it 's a form that 's specific to spoken language , those are r reasons {disfmarker} f for those reasons I {disfmarker} I kept that separate , and used the convention of using \" CUZ \" for that form , however , glossing it so that it 's possible with the script to plug in the full orthographic form for that one , and a couple of others , not many . So \" wanna \" is another one , \" going {disfmarker} \" uh , \" gonna \" is another one , with just the assumption , again , that this {disfmarker} th these are things which it 's not really fair to a c consider {disfmarker} expect that {disfmarker} a pronunciation model , to handle . And Chuck , you in you indicated that \" cuz \" is {disfmarker} is one of those that 's handled in a different way also , didn't you ? Did I {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: I don't remember .\nPostdoc E: OK . So {disfmarker} so it might not have been {disfmarker} {vocalsound} It might not have been you ,\nPhD B: Hmm .\nPostdoc E: but someone told me that in fact \" cuz \" is treated differently in , um , i u in this context because of that r reason that , um , it 's a little bit farther than a pronunciation variant . OK , so after that , let 's see ,\n",
      "PhD B: So that was part of the spell - check , {comment} or was that {disfmarker} that was after the spell - check ?\nPostdoc E: um . Well so when I get the exhau So the spell - check picks up those words because they 're not in the dictionary .\nPhD B: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc E: So it gets \" cuz \" and \" wanna \" and that {disfmarker}\nGrad D: And then you gloss them ?\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah , mm - hmm . Run it through {disfmarker} I have a sed {disfmarker} You know , so I do sed script saying whenever you see \" gonna \" you know , \" convert it to gonna \" , you know , \" gloss equals quote going - to quote \" , you know . And with all these things being in curly brackets\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc E: so they 're always distinctive . OK , I also wrote a script which will , um , retrieve anything in curly brackets , {vocalsound} or anything which I 've classified as an acronym , and {disfmarker} a pronounced acronym . And the way I tag ac pronounced acronyms is that I have underscores between the components . So if it 's \" ACL \" then it 's \" A \" underscore \" C \" underscore \" L \" .\nGrad D: And so {disfmarker} so your list here , are these ones that actually occurred in the meetings ?\nPostdoc E: And the th Yes . Uh - huh , yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: Whew !\nPostdoc E: OK , so now . Uh and {disfmarker} a\nGrad D: We are acronym - loaded .\nPhD G: Um , can I ask a question about the glossing , uh before we go on ?\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nPhD G: So , for a word like \" because \" is it that it 's always predictably \" because \" ? I mean , is \" CUZ \" always meaning \" because \" ?\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yes , but not the reverse . So sometimes people will say \" because \" in the meeting , and if {disfmarker} if they actually said \" because \" , then it 's written as \" because \" with no {disfmarker} w \" cuz \" doesn't even figure into the equation .\nProfessor F: But {disfmarker} but in our meetings people don't say \" hey cuz how you doing ? \"\nPhD G: Beca - because {disfmarker} Right . {comment} {vocalsound} Right .\nGrad D: Except right there .\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: Um , so , I guess {disfmarker} So , from the point of view of {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: That 's a good point .\nPhD G: The {disfmarker} the only problem is that with {disfmarker} for the recognition we {disfmarker} we map it to \" because \" ,\nGrad D: Well ,\nPhD G: and so if we know that \" CUZ \" {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: That 's fine .\nGrad D: but they have the gloss .\nPostdoc E: Well Don has a script .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: but , we don't {disfmarker}\nGrad D: You have the gloss form so you always replace it .\nPostdoc E: Exactly .\nGrad D: If that 's how {disfmarker} what you wanna do .\nPostdoc E: Uh - huh . And Don knows this ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: and he 's bee he has a glo he has a script that {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I replace the \" cuz \" with \" because \" if it 's glossed .\nPhD G: S Right . But , if it 's {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "Grad C: And {disfmarker}\nPhD G: But then there are other glosses that we don't replace , right ? Because {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Yes . And that 's why there 're different tags on the glosses ,\nPhD G: OK . So , then it 's fine .\nPostdoc E: on the different {disfmarker} on the different types of comments , which we 'll {disfmarker} which we 'll see in just a second .\nGrad C: Right .\nPhD G: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc E: So the pronounceable acronyms get underscores , the things in curly brackets are viewed as comments . There 're comments of four types . So this is a good time to introduce that . The four types . w And maybe we 'll expand that\nGrad D: Um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: but the {disfmarker} but the comments are , um , of four types mainly right now . One of them is , um , the gloss type we just mentioned .\nGrad D: Can {disfmarker} ca\nPostdoc E: Another type is , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: So a are we done with acronyms ? Cuz I had a question on what {disfmarker} what this meant .\nPostdoc E: I 'm still doing the overview . I haven't actually gotten here yet .\nGrad D: Oh I 'm sorry .\n",
      "Postdoc E: OK so , gloss is things like replacing the full form u with the , um , more abbreviated one to the left . Uh , then you have if it 's {disfmarker} uh , there 're a couple different types of elements that can happen that aren't really properly words , and wo some of them are laughs and breathes , so we have {disfmarker} uh that 's prepended with a v a tag of \" VOC \" .\nPhD A: Whew ! \nPostdoc E: And the non - vocal ones are like door - slams and tappings , and that 's prepended with a no non - vocalization .\n",
      "PhD B: So then it {disfmarker} just an ending curly brace there , or is there something else in there .\nPostdoc E: Oh yeah , so i e this would {disfmarker}\nGrad D: A comment , basically .\nPostdoc E: Let 's just take one example .\nPhD B: Oh , oh , oh .\n",
      "Postdoc E: And then the no non - vocalization would be something like a door - slam . They always end . So it 's like they 're paired curly brackets . And then the third type right now , {vocalsound} uh , is {pause} m things that fall in the category of comments about what 's happening . So it could be something like , you know , \" referring to so - and - so \" , \" talking about such - and - such \" , uh , you know , \" looking at so - and - so \" .\nPhD B: So on the m\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: on the middle t So , in the first case that gloss applies to the word to the left . But in the middle two {disfmarker} Th - it 's not applying to anything , right ?\nPostdoc E: Yeah , and this gets substituted here .\nGrad D: They 're impulsive .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc E: Huh - uh . No , they 're events .\nPhD B: OK .\nGrad D: Well the \" QUAL \" can be {disfmarker} The \" QUAL \" is applying to the left .\nPostdoc E: They 're actually {disfmarker} They have the status of events .\n",
      "PhD B: Right , I just meant the middle two ones , yeah .\nGrad D: Yep .\nPostdoc E: Well , and actually , um , it is true that , with respect to \" laugh \" , there 's another one which is \" while laughing \" ,\nGrad D: \" While laughing \" .\n",
      "Postdoc E: and that is , uh , i i An argument could be made for this {disfmarker} tur turning that into a qualitative statement because it 's talking about the thing that preceded it , but at present we haven't been , um , uh , coding the exact scope of laughing , you know , and so to have \" while laughing \" , you know that it happened somewhere in there which could well mean that it occurred separately and following , or , you know , including some of the utterances to the left . Haven't been awfully precise about that , but I have here , now we 're about to get to the {disfmarker} to this now , I have frequencies . So you 'll see how often these different things occur . But , um , uh , the very front page deals with this , uh , final c pa uh , uh , aspect of the standardization which has to do with the spoken forms like \" mm - hmm \" and \" mm - hmm \" and \" ha \" and \" uh - uh \" and all these different types . And , um , uh , someone pointed out to me , this might have been Chuck , {comment} about , um {disfmarker} about how a recognizer , if it 's looking for \" mm - hmmm \" with three M 's , {vocalsound} and it 's transcribed with two M 's , {vocalsound} that it might {disfmarker} uh , that it might increase the error rate which is {disfmarker} which would really be a shame because um , I p I personally w would not be able to make a claim that those are dr dramatically different items . So , right now I 've standardized across all the existing data with these spoken forms .\n",
      "Grad D: Oh good .\nPostdoc E: I {disfmarker} I should say\nGrad D: So it 's a small list .\nPostdoc E: all existing data except thirty minutes which got found today . So , I 'm gonna {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I 'm gonna {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I 'm gonna check {disfmarker}\nGrad D: That {disfmarker} that 's known as \" found data \" .\nPostdoc E: Yeah , yeah . Acsu - actually yeah . I got {disfmarker} It was stored in a place I didn't expect ,\n",
      "Grad C: It 's like the z Zapruder Film .\nPostdoc E: so {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and um , w we , uh , sh yea reconstructed how that happened .\nProfessor F: I wanna work with lost data .\nGrad D: Yeah . It 's much easier .\nPostdoc E: And this is {disfmarker} this 'll be great . So I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll be able to get through that tonight , and then everyth i well , actually later today probably .\nGrad D: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc E: And so then we 'll have everything following these conventions . But you notice it 's really rather a small set of these kinds of things .\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: And I made it so that these are , um , with a couple exceptions but , things that you wouldn't find in the spell - checker so that they 'll show up really easily . And , um {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Jane , can I ask you a question ? What 's that very last one correspond to ?\nPostdoc E: Sure .\nGrad C: I don't even know how to pronounce that .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Well , yeah . Now that {disfmarker} that s only occurs once ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: and I 'm thinking of changing that .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad C: Uh , is that like someone 's like burning or some such thing ?\nPostdoc E: So - c I haven't listened to it so I don't know .\nGrad C: Like their hair 's on fire ?\nPostdoc E: I haven't heard it actually . I n I need to listen to that one .\nGrad D: Ah !\nPhD A: It 's the Castle of Ah !\n",
      "PhD G: Actually we {disfmarker} we gave this to our pronunciation person ,\nGrad C: Uh , it looks like that .\nPhD G: she 's like , \" I don't know what that is either \" . So .\nPostdoc E: Did she hear the th did she actually hear it ? Cuz I haven't heard it .\n",
      "PhD G: No , we just gave her a list of words that , you know , weren't in our dictionary and so of course it picked up stuff like this , and she just didn't listen so she didn't know . We just {disfmarker} we 're waiting on that {pause} just to do the alignments .\nPostdoc E: Yeah . Yeah I 'm curious to se hear what it is , but I didn't know {disfmarker} wanna change it to something else until I knew .\nGrad C: Right .\nPhD G: Maybe it 's \" argh \" ?\n",
      "Postdoc E: Well , sss , {comment} you know {disfmarker}\nPhD G: \nGrad C: But that 's not really like {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Hhh .\nGrad C: No one really says \" argh , \" you know ,\nPostdoc E: \nPhD G: Yeah . Right , no one say\nGrad C: it 's not {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Well , you just did .\nPhD B: Except for now !\nGrad C: Well , there 's another {disfmarker} there 's another word error .\nGrad D: \n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah . That 's right .\nGrad D: Yes , that 's right . We 're gonna have a big problem when we talk about that .\nGrad C: Cha - ching .\nPhD G: Ah .\nPhD B: We 're gonna never recognize this meeting .\nGrad D: In Monty Python you say \" argh \" a lot .\nPostdoc E: OK .\nGrad C: Oh yeah ?\nGrad D: So . Well , or if you 're a C programmer .\nGrad C: Mmm .\nGrad D: You say arg - C and arg - V all the time .\nPostdoc E: Yeah , that 's right .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: That 's right .\nGrad C: That 's true .\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah\nPhD G: But it has a different prosody .\nProfessor F: Arg .\nGrad D: It does .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Arg {disfmarker} arg - max , arg - min , yeah .\nGrad D: Ah !\nPostdoc E: Uh ,\nPhD G: So , Jane , what 's the {disfmarker} d\nGrad D: Maybe he died while dictating .\nPostdoc E: so .\n",
      "PhD G: I have one question about the the \" EH \" versus like the \" AH \" and the \" UH \" .\nPostdoc E: That 's partly a nonnative - native thing ,\nPhD G: OK .\nPostdoc E: but I have found \" EH \" in native speakers too .\nPhD G: \nPostdoc E: But it 's mostly non - native {disfmarker}\nPhD A: H\nPhD B: That 's \" eh \" versus \" ah \" ?\nPhD G: S OK .\nPostdoc E: Eh .\nGrad D: Eh ?\n",
      "PhD G: \" Eh , \" yeah right , cuz there were {disfmarker} were some speakers that did definite \" eh 's \"\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: but right now we {disfmarker}\nPhD B: They were the Canadians , right ?\nProfessor F: Canadians , yeah , yeah , yeah .\nPostdoc E: That 's right .\nPhD G: So , it {disfmarker} it 's actually probably good for us to know the difference between the real \" eh \" and the one that 's just like \" uh \" or transcribed \" aaa \"\nPostdoc E: Exactly .\n",
      "PhD G: cuz in {disfmarker} like in Switchboard , you would see e all of these forms , but they all were like \" uh \" .\nGrad D: You mean just the single letter \" a \" {comment} as in the particle ?\nPhD A: The transcription or {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Article .\nPhD G: No , no , I mean like the {disfmarker} the \" UH \" ,\nPostdoc E: \" UH \" .\nGrad D: Oh .\n",
      "PhD G: or {disfmarker} the \" UH \" , \" EH \" , \" AH \" were all the same . And then , we have this additional non - native version of {disfmarker} uh , like \" eeh \" .\nGrad C: All the \" EH \" 's I 've seen have been like that . They 've been like \" eh \" like that have bee has been transcribed to \" EH \" . And sometimes it 's stronger ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm , that 's right .\nGrad C: like \" eeh \" {comment} which is like closer to \" EH \" .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Mmm .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad C: But .\nGrad D: I 'm just {disfmarker} these poor transcribers , they 're gonna hate this meeting .\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nGrad C: I know . We should go off - line .\nPostdoc E: Well , {vocalsound} we 're not doing {disfmarker} We 're not doing length .\nProfessor F: Quick Thilo , do a {disfmarker} do a filled pause for us .\nPostdoc E: Yeah , that 's right .\nPhD A: Ooo {comment} no .\n",
      "PhD G: But you 're a native German speaker so it 's not a {disfmarker} not a issue for {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD G: It 's only {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Them Canadians .\nPhD G: Onl yeah . No , only if you don't have lax vowels , I guess .\nGrad D: Oh .\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc E: This makes sense .\nPhD G: So it 's {disfmarker} like Japanese and Spanish\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah I {disfmarker} I think you 've {disfmarker} uh - huh , yeah .\nGrad D: Oh I see .\nProfessor F: Uh - huh .\nPhD G: and {disfmarker}\nGrad D: I didn't get that ,\nPostdoc E: That makes sense .\nGrad D: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah , and so , you know , I mean , th th I have {disfmarker} there are some , um , Americans who {disfmarker} who are using this \" eh \" too , and I haven't listened to it systematically , maybe with some of them , uh , they 'd end up being \" uh 's \" but , uh , I my spot - checking has made me think that we do have \" eh \" in also , um , American e e data represented here . But any case , that 's the {disfmarker} this is reduced down from really quite a long a much longer list ,\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah this is great .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Yeah , it 's good ,\nPostdoc E: and this is\nGrad D: yeah .\nPhD G: This is really really helpful .\nPostdoc E: functionally pretty , you know , also {disfmarker} It was fascinating , I was listening to some of these , uh , I guess two nights ago , and it 's just hilarious to liste to {disfmarker} to do a search for the \" mm - hmm 's \" . And you get \" mm - hmm \" and diff everybody 's doing it .\n",
      "Grad D: And just listen to them ? Yeah .\nPostdoc E: Just {disfmarker} I wanted to say {disfmarker} I w think it would be fun to make a montage of it because there 's a \" Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Performance art ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm . \"\nGrad D: just extract them all .\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc E: It 's really {disfmarker} it 's really fun to listen to .\nPhD B: Morgan can make a song out of it .\n",
      "Postdoc E: All these different vocal tracts , you know , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's the same item . It 's very interesting . OK . Uh , then the acronyms y and the ones in parentheses are ones which the transcriber wasn't sure of ,\nGrad D: Oh I see .\nPostdoc E: and I haven't been able to listen to to {disfmarker} to clarify , but you can see that the parenthesis convention makes it very easy to find them\nGrad D: o How about question mark ?\nPostdoc E: cuz it 's the only place where {disfmarker} where they 're used .\n",
      "PhD A: The question marks , yeah . What are those ?\nPostdoc E: Question mark is punctuation . So it {disfmarker} they said that @ @ {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Oh .\nPostdoc E: um , \" DC ? \"\nPhD A: Ah .\nGrad D: So they {disfmarker} so it 's \" PLP ? \"\nPostdoc E: Exactly . Exactly . Yeah , so the only {disfmarker} Well , and I do have a stress marker here . Sometimes the contrastive stress is showing up , and , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: I 'm sorry , I {disfmarker} I got lost here . What - w what 's the difference between the parenthesized acronym and the non - parenthesized ?\nPostdoc E: The parenthesized is something that the transcriber thought was ANN , but wasn't entirely sure . So I 'd need to go back or someone needs to go back , and say , you know , yes or no ,\nProfessor F: Ah .\nPostdoc E: and then get rid of the parentheses .\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc E: But the parentheses are used only in that context in the transcripts , of of noti noticing that there 's something uncertain .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah , P - make is {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yeah I mean cuz they {disfmarker} they have no idea ,\nGrad D: That 's a good one . That 's correct .\nPhD G: right . If you hear CTPD , I mean , they do pretty well\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: but it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker} I don't recognize a lot of these .\nPhD G: you know how are {disfmarker} how are they gonna know ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: I know ! I {disfmarker} I was saying that I think a lot of them are the Networks meeting .\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: I think that 's true .\nProfessor F: Maybe .\nPostdoc E: Yeah , absolutely .\nGrad D: I see a few .\nPostdoc E: NSA ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: a lot of these are {disfmarker} are coming from them . I listened to some of that .\nGrad C: Yeah , we don't have that many acronyms comparatively in this meeting .\n",
      "Grad D: Although I see {disfmarker} I see plenty of uh\nPostdoc E: Yeah . Yeah . I agree .\nGrad C: It 's not so bad .\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc E: And Robustness has a fair amount ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Mmm .\nPostdoc E: but the NSA group is just very very many .\nPhD G: The recognizer , it is funny . Kept getting PTA for PDA .\nGrad D: Yeah , that 's pretty close .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: This is close , right ,\nGrad C: That 's not bad .\n",
      "PhD G: and the PTA was in these , uh , topics about children ,\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nPhD G: so , anyway .\nPostdoc E: That 's interesting .\nPhD G: Is the P - PTA working ?\n",
      "Postdoc E: Right and sometimes , I mean , you see a couple of these that are actually \" OK 's \" so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} may be that they got to the point where {disfmarker} I mean it was low enough understandable {disfmarker} understandability that they weren't entirely sure the person said \" OK . \" You know , so it isn't really necessarily a an undecipherable acronym ,\nGrad C: There 's a lot of \" OK 's \" .\n",
      "Postdoc E: but just n needs to be double checked . Now we get to the comments . This {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: The number to the left is the number of incidences ?\nGrad D: Count . Yep .\nPostdoc E: Number of times out of the entire database ,\nProfessor F: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc E: w except for that last thirty minutes I haven't checked yet .\nProfessor F: So CTS is really big here ,\nGrad D: Yeah , I wonder what it is .\nProfessor F: yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: So what is the difference between \" papers rustling \" and \" rustling papers \" ?\n",
      "Professor F: IP , I know what IP is .\nPostdoc E: I 'd have to listen . I {disfmarker} I I agree . I w I 'd like to standardize these down farther but , um , uh , uh , to me that sounds equivalent .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: But , I {disfmarker} I 'm a little hesitant to {disfmarker} to collapse across categories unless I actually listen to them .\nPhD A: Seems so .\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad D: Oh I 'm sure we 've said XML more than five times .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Well , then , at least now .\nPhD A: Now it 's at least six times , yeah .\nProfessor F: S s six now , yeah .\nPostdoc E: Yeah . Six . OK well {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Wh - the self - referential aspect of these {disfmarker} these p\nPhD G: I 'm wai\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yes , it 's very bad .\nPhD G: Well this is exactly how people will prove that these meetings do differ because we 're recording , right ?\nGrad D: Yes .\n",
      "PhD G: Y no normally you don't go around saying , \" Now you 've said it six times .\nGrad D: Yeah {comment} that 's right .\nPhD G: Now you 've said \"\nPostdoc E: But did you notice that there were seven hundred and eighty five instances of \" OK \" ?\nPhD A: Seven hundred eighty - five instances .\nPostdoc E: And that 's just without the {disfmarker} without punc punctuation .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yep .\nProfessor F: No , I didn't . Yeah .\nGrad D: And that 's an underestimate\n",
      "Postdoc E: Extra forty one if it 's questioned .\nPhD B: Where 's that ?\nGrad D: cuz they 're Yep .\nProfessor F: So th\nPostdoc E: On the page two of acronyms .\nGrad C: Is this after {disfmarker} like did you do some uh replacements for all the different form of \" OK \" to this ?\nProfessor F: Yeah . Seven hundred eighty .\nPostdoc E: Yeah . Of \" OK \" , yes .\nGrad C: OK .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm . So that 's the single existing convention for \" OK \" .\nPhD B: Wait a minute , w s\n",
      "Professor F: So now we 're up to seven hundred and eighty eight .\nPostdoc E: Yeah that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Although , what 's {disfmarker} there 's one with a slash after it . That 's kind of disturbing .\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nGrad D: Yeah , we 'll have to look at it you know .\nPostdoc E: That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} I looked for that one .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad C: Anyway .\nPostdoc E: I actually explicitly looked for that one ,\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc E: and I think that , um , I {disfmarker} I 'm not exactly sure about that .\nPhD B: Was that somewhere where they were gonna say \" new speaker \" or something ?\nPostdoc E: No , I looked for that , but that doesn't actually exist . And it may be , I don't {disfmarker} I can't explain that .\nGrad C: That 's alright . I 'm just pointing that out .\nPostdoc E: I i it 's the only {disfmarker}\nGrad C: There 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: it 's the only pattern that has a slash after it , and I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's an epiphenomenon .\nPhD G: Well there 's not @ @ .\nGrad D: So I 'll just {disfmarker} I was just looking at the bottom of page three there , is that \" to be \" or \" not to be \" .\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nPhD B: There 's no tilde in front of it ,\nPostdoc E: Oh that 's cute .\nPhD B: so .\nPostdoc E: That 's funny . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad D: OK anyways , sorry .\nPostdoc E: OK .\nGrad D: \" Try to stay on topic , Adam . \"\nPostdoc E: There is th one {disfmarker} Y well , no , that 's r that 's legitimate . So now , uh , comments , you can see they 're listed again , same deal , with exhaustive listing of everything found in everything except for these final th thirty minutes .\nGrad D: OK so , um , on some of these QUALs ,\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nGrad D: are they really QUALs , or are they glosses ? So like there 's a \" QUAL TCL \" .\n",
      "Postdoc E: \" TCL \" . Where do you see that ?\nGrad D: Uh\nPostdoc E: Oh , oh . The reason is because w it was said \" tickle \" .\nProfessor F: What 's a QUAL ?\nGrad D: Oh I see , I see .\nGrad C: Hmm .\nGrad D: So it 's not gloss . OK , I see .\nPostdoc E: Yep .\nGrad C: Sh - shouldn't it be \" QUAL TICKLE \" or something ?\nGrad D: It wasn't said \" TCL \" . Of course .\nGrad C: Like {disfmarker} it 's not {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: On the {disfmarker} in the actual script {disfmarker} in the actual transcript , I s I {disfmarker} So this {disfmarker} this happens in the very first one .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc E: I actually wrote it as \" tickle \" .\nGrad C: OK .\nPostdoc E: Because we {disfmarker} they didn't say \" TCL \" , they said \" tickle \" .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: And then , following that is \" QUAL TCL \" .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad C: Oh I see . OK .\n",
      "Professor F: I f I forget , what 's QUAL ?\nPostdoc E: Qual - qualifier .\nPhD B: It 's just comment about what they said .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: Comment .\nGrad C: It 's not something you wanna replace {pause} with\nPostdoc E: Comment or contextual comment .\nPhD B: So they didn't mean \" tickle \" as in Elmo ,\nGrad C: but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Tickle ?\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD B: they meant \" tickle \" as in {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD G: Huh .\n",
      "Professor F: Right .\nPhD G: But at some point {disfmarker} I mean , we probably shoul\nGrad D: We 'll probably add it to the language model .\nPhD G: But we should add it to the dictionar\nGrad D: Yeah .\nPhD G: No , to the pronunciation model .\nGrad D: What did I say ?\nPhD A: To the language model {disfmarker} model .\nPhD G: Language , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Well both .\nPhD B: Add what , Liz ?\nGrad D: We can go on lan lan add it to both dictionary and language model .\n",
      "PhD G: Oh lan Oh OK - we OK\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD G: it 's in the language model , w yeah , but it so it 's the pronunciation model that has to have a pronunciation of \" tickle \" .\nGrad D: Well \" tickle \" was pronounced \" tickle \" . Right ?\nPhD A: \" tickle \" is pronounced \" tickle \" ?\nPhD B: What are you saying ?\nGrad D: It 's pronounced the same {disfmarker} it 's pronounced the same as the verb .\nPhD G: I 'm sorry !\n",
      "Grad D: So I think it 's the language model that makes it different .\nPhD G: Oh , sorry . What I meant is that there should be a pronunciation \" tickle \" for TCL as a word .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad D: Oh I see .\nPhD G: And that word in the {disfmarker} in , you know , it stays in the language model wherever it was .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: Right . Right .\nProfessor F: Right .\nPhD G: Yeah you never would put \" tickle \" in the language model in that form ,\nPostdoc E: \nGrad D: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: yeah . Right . There 's actually a bunch of cases like this with people 's names and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So how w there 'd be a problem for doing the language modeling then with our transcripts the way they are .\nPhD G: Yes . Yeah . Yeah so th th there there 's a few cases like that where the um , the word needs to be spelled out in {disfmarker} in a consistent way as it would appear in the language , but there 's not very many of these . Tcl 's one of them .\n",
      "Grad D: And {disfmarker} and you 'll ha you 'll have to do it sychronously .\nPhD G: Um , y yeah .\nGrad D: Right , so y so , whoever 's creating the new models , will have to also go through the transcripts and change them synchronously .\nGrad C: It 's just disturbing .\nPhD G: Right .\nPhD B: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: Right . We have this {disfmarker} there is this thing I was gonna talk to you about at some point about , you know , what do we do with the dictionary as we 're up updating the dictionary , these changes have to be consistent with what 's in the {disfmarker} Like spelling people 's names and so forth . If we make a spelling correction to their name , like someone had Deborah Tannen 's name mispelled , and since we know who that is , you know , we could correct it ,\nGrad D: You can correct it . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: but {disfmarker} but we need to make sure we have the mispel If it doesn't get corrected we have to have a pronunciation as a mispelled word in the dictionary .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Things like that .\nGrad D: These are so funny to read .\nPostdoc E: Well , of course now the {disfmarker} the Tannen corre the spelling c change .\nPhD G: So .\nPostdoc E: Uh , that 's what gets {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I picked those up in the frequency check .\n",
      "PhD G: Right . Right . So if there 's things that get corrected before we get them , it 's {disfmarker} it 's not an issue ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: but if there 's things that um , we change later , then we always have to keep our {disfmarker} the dictionary up to date . And then , yeah , in the case of \" tickle \" I guess we would just have a , you know , word \" TCL \" which {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad D: You add it to the dictionary .\n",
      "PhD G: which normally would be an acronym , you know , \" TCL \"\nGrad D: Right .\nPhD G: but just has another pronunciation .\nGrad D: Yep .\nPostdoc E: \" ICSI \" is {disfmarker} is one of those that sometimes people pronounce and sometimes they say \" ICSI . \"\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc E: So , those that are l are listed in the acronyms , I actually know\nPhD G: Oh yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: they were said as letters . The others , um , e those really do need to be listened to cuz I haven't been able to go to all the IC ICSI things ,\nPhD G: Right , exactly .\nPostdoc E: and {disfmarker} {comment} and until they 've been listened to they stay as \" ICSI \" .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Right .\nProfessor F: Don and I were just noticing , love this one over on page three , \" vocal {disfmarker} vocal gesture mimicking sound of screwing something into head to hold mike in place . \"\n",
      "Grad C: That 's great .\nGrad D: It 's this , \" rrre - rrre - rrre \" . It was me .\nPostdoc E: It was ! In fact , it was ! Yeah !\nGrad D: A lot of these are me the {disfmarker} the \" beep is said with a high pit high pitch and lengthening . \"\nPostdoc E: He {disfmarker} he s he said {disfmarker} he said get {disfmarker}\nPhD A: To head .\nGrad D: That was the {disfmarker} I was imitating uh , beeping out {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah , that 's it .\nProfessor F: Beep .\nPostdoc E: Perfect . Yeah that 's it .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Oh there is something spelled out \" BEEEEEEP \"\nGrad C: Um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: That 's it .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPostdoc E: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker} that 's been changed .\nPhD G: in the old {disfmarker} Thank you . Because he was saying , \" How many E 's do I have to allow for ? \"\nGrad C: You need a lot of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: What I meant was \" beep \" .\nGrad C: You need a lot of qualification Adam .\nGrad D: I guess so .\nPostdoc E: That 's been changed . So , exactly , that 's where the lengthening comment c came in .\nGrad C: Subtext .\nGrad D: Anyway .\nPostdoc E: s chan brought it down .\nPhD G: Right , thanks , yeah .\nGrad D: So they 're vocalization ,\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc E: And those of course get {disfmarker} get picked up in the frequency check\nGrad D: glosses .\nPostdoc E: because you see \" beep \"\n",
      "PhD G: Right .\nPostdoc E: and you know {disfmarker} I mean it gets kicked out in the spelling , and it also gets kicked out in the , uh , freq frequency listing .\nPhD G: Right . Right .\n",
      "Postdoc E: I have the {disfmarker} there 're various things like \" breathe \" versus \" breath \" versus \" inhale \" and , hhh , you know , I don't know . I {disfmarker} I think they don't have any implications for anything else so it 's like I 'm tempted to leave them for now an and {disfmarker} It 's easy enough to find them when they 're in curly brackets . We can always get an exhaustive listing of these things and find them and change them .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: \" Sings finale - type song \"\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , that was in the first meeting .\nProfessor F: that 's {disfmarker} that 's good .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad D: Um ,\nPostdoc E: Yeah , but I don't actually remember what it was . But that was {disfmarker} Eric did that .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad D: So on {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Tah - dah ! I don't know .\nPostdoc E: I think maybe something like that .\nProfessor F: Something like that maybe , yeah .\nPostdoc E: Well , that 'd qualify .\n",
      "Grad D: On the glosses for numbers ,\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nGrad D: it seems like there are lots of different ways it 's being done .\nPostdoc E: OK . Interesting question .\nGrad D: There 's a {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Yes . OK , now first of all {disfmarker} Ooo - ooo ! Very important .\nGrad D: \" Ooo - ooo . \"\n",
      "Postdoc E: Uh Chuck {disfmarker} Chuck led to a refinement here which is to add \" NUMS \" if these are parts of the read numbers . Now you already know i that I had , uh , in places where they hadn't transcribed numbers , I put \" numbers \" in place of any kind of numbers , but there are places where they , um , it {disfmarker} th this convention came later an and at the very first digits task in some transcripts they actually transcribed numbers . And , um , d Chuck pointed out that this is read speech , and it 's nice to have the option of ignoring it for certain other prob uh p uh , things . And that 's why there 's this other tag here which occurs a hundred and five {disfmarker} or three hundred and five times right now which is just {disfmarker} well n n \" NUMS \" by itself\n",
      "Grad D: \" NUMS \" , yeah .\nPostdoc E: which means this is part of the numbers task . I may change it to \" digits \" . I mean , i with the sed command you can really just change it however you want because it 's systematically encoded , you know ?\nGrad D: Yep .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Have to think about what 's the best for {disfmarker} for the overall purposes , but in any case , um , \" numbers \" and \" NUMS \" are a part of this digits task thing . Um , now th Then I have these numbers that have quotation marks around them . Um , I didn't want to put them in as gloss comments because then you get the substitution . And actually , th um , {vocalsound} the reason I b did it this way was because I initially started out with the other version , you have the numbers and you have the full form and the parentheses , however sometimes people stumble over these numbers they 're saying . So you say , \" Seve - seventy eight point two \" , or whatever . And there 's no way of capturing that if you 're putting the numbers off to the side . You can't have the seven and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: So what 's to the left of these ?\nPostdoc E: The left is i so example the very first one ,\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc E: it would be , spelled out in words , \" point five \" .\nGrad D: OK , that 's what I was asking . Right .\nPostdoc E: Only it 's spelled out in words .\nGrad D: Point FIVE , yeah .\nPostdoc E: So i this is also spelled out in {disfmarker} in words . \" Point five . \"\nGrad D: Good .\n",
      "Postdoc E: And then , in here , \" NUMS \" , so it 's not going to be mistaken as a gloss . It comes out as \" NUMS quote dot five \" .\nGrad D: OK now , the other example is , in the glosses right there ,\nPostdoc E: Thank you .\nGrad D: \" gloss one one one dash one three zero \" .\nGrad C: Right .\nGrad D: What {disfmarker} what 's to the left of that ?\n",
      "Postdoc E: Well now {disfmarker} In that case it 's people saying things like \" one one one dash so - and - so \" or they 're saying uh \" two {disfmarker} I mean zero \" whatever .\nGrad D: OK .\nPostdoc E: And in that case , it 's part of the numbers task , and it 's not gonna be included in the read digits anyway ,\nPhD B: So there will be a \" NUMS \" tag on those lines ?\nPostdoc E: so {disfmarker} I m in the uh {disfmarker} There is .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah . I 've added that all now too .\nGrad C: There 's a \" numbers \" tag {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Good .\nGrad C: I 'm sorry I 'm {disfmarker} I didn't follow that last thing .\nPhD G: Wait .\nPostdoc E: So , so gloss {disfmarker} in the same line that would have \" gloss quote one one one dash one thirty \" , you 'd have a gloss at the end of the line saying , uh , \" curly bracket NUMS curly bracket \" .\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc E: So if you {disfmarker} if you did a , uh , a \" grep minus V nums \"\nPhD G: Oh , so you could do \" grep minus V nums \" .\nPostdoc E: and you get rid of anything that was read .\nPhD G: So that 's the {disfmarker} yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\nPhD G: So there wouldn't be something like i if somebody said something like , \" Boy , I 'm really tired , OK . \" and then started reading that would be on a separate line ?\nPostdoc E: Yes .\n",
      "PhD G: OK great . Cuz I was doing the \" grep minus V \" quick and dirty and looked like that was working OK ,\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm . Good .\nPhD G: but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Yep .\nPhD G: Great . Now why do we {disfmarker} what 's the reason for having like the point five have the \" NUMS \" on it ? Is that just like when they 're talking about their data or something ?\nPostdoc E: This is more because {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: Yeah . Oh these are all these , the \" NUMS point \" , this all where they 're saying \" point \" something or other .\nPhD G: These are all like inside the spontaneous {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: And the other thing too is for readability of the transcript . I mean if you 're trying to follow this while you 're reading it it 's really hard to read , you know {disfmarker} eh , \" so in the data column five has \" , you know , \" one point five compared to seventy nine point six \" , it 's like when you see the words it 's really hard to follow the argument . And this is just really a {disfmarker} a way of someone who would handle th the data in a more discourse - y way to be able to follow what 's being said .\nGrad D: Label it .\n",
      "PhD G: Oh OK .\nPostdoc E: So this is where Chuck 's , um , overall h architecture comes in ,\nPhD G: I see .\n",
      "Postdoc E: where we 're gonna have a master file of the channelized data . Um , there will be scripts that are written to convert it into these t these main two uses and th some scripts will take it down th e into a f a for ta take it to a format that 's usable for the recognizer an uh , other scripts will take it to a form that 's usable for the {disfmarker} for linguistics an and discourse analysis . And , um , the implication that {disfmarker} that I have is that th the master copy will stay unchanged . These will just be things that are generated ,\nGrad D: Right\n",
      "Postdoc E: and e by using scripts .\nPhD G: OK .\nGrad D: Master copies of superset .\nPostdoc E: When things change then the {disfmarker} the script will cham change but the {disfmarker} but there won't be stored copies of {disfmarker} in different versions of things .\nGrad D: Good .\n",
      "PhD G: So , I guess I 'd have one request here which is just , um , maybe to make it more robust , th that the tag , whatever you would choose for this type of \" NUMS \" {comment} where it 's inside the spontaneous speech , is different than the tag that you use for the read speech .\nPhD B: Right . Right . That would argue for changing the other ones to be \" digits \" or something .\nPhD G: Um , that way w if we make a mistake parsing , or something , we don't see the \" point five \" , or {disfmarker} or it 's not there , then we\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: a Just {disfmarker} an And actually for things like \" seven eighths \" , or people do fractions too I guess , you {disfmarker} maybe you want one overall tag for sort of that would be similar to that ,\nPostdoc E: Except {disfmarker}\nPhD G: or {disfmarker} As long as they 're sep as they 're different strings that we {disfmarker} that 'll make our p sort of processing more robust .\nPostdoc E: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Cuz we really will get rid of everything that has the \" NUMS \" string in it .\nPhD B: I suppose what you could do is just make sure that you get rid of everything that has \" curly brace NUMS curly brace \" .\nPostdoc E: Well {disfmarker} Ex - exactly .\nPhD B: I mean that would be the {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: Exactly . That was {disfmarker} that was my motivation . And i these can be changed , like I said .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: You know , I mean , as I said I was considering changing it to \" digits \" . And , it just {disfmarker} i you know , it 's just a matter of deciding on whatever it is , and being sure the scripts know .\nPhD B: Right .\nPhD G: It would probably be safer , if you 're willing , to have a separate tag just because um , then we know for sure . And we can also do counts on them without having to do the processing . But you 're right , we could do it this way , it {disfmarker} it should work . Um ,\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , and it makes it {disfmarker} I guess the thing about {disfmarker}\nPhD G: but it it 's probably not hard for a person to tell the difference\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD G: because one 's in the context of a {disfmarker} you know , a transcribed word string ,\nPhD B: Right .\nPostdoc E: The other thing is you can get really so minute with these things\nPhD G: and {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: and increase the size of the files and the re and decrease the readability to such an extent by simply something like \" percent \" . Now I {disfmarker} I could have adopted a similar convention for \" percent \" , but somehow percent is not so hard , you know ?\nGrad D: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc E: i It 's just when you have these points and you 're trying to figure out where the decimal places are {disfmarker} And we could always add it later . Percent 's easy to detect . Point however is {disfmarker} is uh a word that has a couple different meanings . And you 'll find both of those in one of these meetings , where he 's saying \" well the first point I wanna make is so - and - so \" and he goes through four points , and also has all these decimals .\nPhD B: So Liz , what does the recognizer do ,\nPostdoc E: So .\nPhD B: uh ,\n",
      "Professor F: Hmm .\nPhD B: what does the SRI recognizer output for things like that ? \" seven point five \" . Does it output the word {disfmarker}\nPhD G: \" Seven point five \" .\nPhD B: Right , the word \" seven \" ?\nGrad D: Well , the numbers ?\nPhD B: The number \" seven \" ?\nPhD G: The word .\nPhD B: The word \" seven \" , OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So I 'd {disfmarker} so \" I 'd like {disfmarker} I 'd like to talk about point five \" .\nPhD G: And {disfmarker} and actually , you know the language {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: it 's the same point , actually , the {disfmarker} the p you know , the word \" to \" and the word y th \" going to \" and \" to go to \" those are two different \" to 's \" and so there 's no distinction there .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: It 's just {disfmarker} just the word \" point \" has {disfmarker} Yeah , every word has only one , yeah e one version even if {disfmarker} even if it 's {disfmarker} A actually even like the word \" read \" {comment} and \" read \" Those are two different words . They 're spelled the same way , right ?\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: And they 're still gonna be transcribed as READ .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: So , yeah , I {disfmarker} I like the idea of having this in there , I just {disfmarker} I was a little bit worried that , um , the tag for removing the read speech {disfmarker} because i What if we have like \" read letters \" or , I don't know ,\nGrad D: We might wanna {disfmarker} just a separate tag that says it 's read .\nPhD G: like \" read something \" like \" read \"\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: yeah , basically . But other than that I it sounds great .\n",
      "Grad D: Yeah . OK ? Are we done ?\nPostdoc E: Well I wanted to say also regarding the channelized data ,\nGrad D: Oh , I guess we 're not done .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: that , um , Thilo requested , um , that we ge get some segments done by hand to e e s reduce the size of the time bins wh like was Chuc - Chuck was mentioning earlier that , um , that , um , if you {disfmarker} if you said , \" Oh \" and it was in part of a really long , s complex , overlapping segment , that the same start and end times would be held for that one\nGrad D: Well {disfmarker}\nPostdoc E: as for the longer utterances ,\nGrad D: We did that for one meeting , right ,\nPostdoc E: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad D: so you have that data don't you ?\nPhD A: Yeah , that 's the training data .\nPostdoc E: And he requested that there be , uh , similar , uh , samples done for five minute stretches c involving a variety of speakers and overlapping secti sections .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: He gave me {disfmarker} he did the {disfmarker} very nice , he {disfmarker} he did some shopping through the data and found segments that would be useful . And at this point , all four of the ones that he specified have been done . In addition the I 've {disfmarker} I have the transcribers expanding the amount that they 're doing actually .\nPhD A: Oh great .\n",
      "Postdoc E: So right now , um , I know that as of today we got an extra fifteen minutes of that type , and I 'm having them expand the realm on either side of these places where they 've already started .\nPhD A: Oh great . OK .\nPostdoc E: But if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} you know , and I {disfmarker} and he 's gonna give me some more sections that {disfmarker} that he thinks would be useful for this purpose .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Because it 's true , I mean , if we could do the {disfmarker} the more fine grained tuning of this , uh , using an algorithm , that would be so much more efficient . And , um . So this is gonna be {pause} useful to expand this .\n",
      "PhD A: So I {disfmarker} I thought we {disfmarker} we sh we sh perhaps we should try to {disfmarker} to start with those channelized versions just to {disfmarker} just to try it . Give it {disfmarker} Give one tr transcriber the {disfmarker} the channelized version of {disfmarker} of my speech - nonspeech detection and look if {disfmarker} if that 's helpful for them , or just let them try if {disfmarker} if that 's better or If they {disfmarker} if they can {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: You mean to start from scratch f in a brand new transcript ?\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc E: That 'd be excellent . Yeah , that 'd be really great . As it stands we 're still in the phase of sort of , um , cleaning up the existing data getting things , uh , in i m more tight tightly time {disfmarker} uh , aligned . I also wanna tell {disfmarker} um , I also wanted to r raise the issue that {disfmarker} OK so , there 's this idea we 're gonna have this master copy of the transcript , it 's gonna be modified by scripts t into these two different functions . And actually the master {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Two or more . Two or more different functions .\nPostdoc E: Two {disfmarker} two or more . And that the master is gonna be the channelized version .\nPhD B: Right .\nPostdoc E: So right now we 've taken this i initial one , it was a single channel basically the way it was input . And now , uh , thanks to the advances made in the interface , we can from now on use the channelized part , and , um , any changes that are made get made in the channelized version kind of thing . But I wanted to get all the finished {disfmarker} all the checks {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , so that has implications for your script .\nGrad C: Yeah . So , uh , have those {disfmarker} e e the vis the ten hours that have been transcribed already , have those been channelized ? And I know {disfmarker} I 've seen @ @ {disfmarker} I 've seen they 've been channelized ,\nPostdoc E: Yes , they have .\nGrad D: All ten hours ?\nGrad C: but\nPostdoc E: Except for the missing thirty minutes .\n",
      "Grad C: have they uh {disfmarker} have they been {disfmarker} has the time {disfmarker} have the time markings been adjusted , uh , p on a per channel {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Great .\nPostdoc E: Uh , for {disfmarker} for a total of like twenty m f for a total of {disfmarker} Let 's see , four times {disfmarker} total of about an {disfmarker} {pause} thirty minutes . That 's {disfmarker} that 's been the case .\nGrad C: So ,\nPostdoc E: And plus the training , whatever you have .\n",
      "Grad C: I guess , I mean , I don't know if we should talk about this now , or not , but I\nGrad D: Well it 's just we 're {pause} missing tea .\nGrad C: Yeah , I know .\nGrad D: So .\nGrad C: No , but I mean my question is like should I wait until all of those are processed , and channelized , like the time markings are adjusted before I do all the processing , and we start like branching off into the {disfmarker} into the {disfmarker} our layer of uh transcripts .\n",
      "Postdoc E: Well , you know the problem {disfmarker} the problem is that some {disfmarker} some of the adjustments that they 're making are to bring {disfmarker} are to combine bins that were {disfmarker} time bins which were previously separate . And the reason they do that is sometimes there 's a word that 's cut off .\nGrad C: Right .\nPostdoc E: And so , i i i it 's true that it 's likely to be adjusted in the way that the words are more complete . And ,\n",
      "Grad C: OK . No I know {disfmarker} I know that adjusting those things are gonna {disfmarker} is gonna make it better .\nPostdoc E: so I {disfmarker} it 's gonna be a more reliable thing and I 'm not sure {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I mean I 'm sure about that ,\nPostdoc E: Yeah .\nGrad C: but do you have like a time frame when you can expect like all of it to be done , or when you expect them to finish it , or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc E: Well partly it depends on how {disfmarker} um , how e effective it will be to apply an algorithm because i this takes time ,\nGrad C: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc E: you know , it takes a couple hours t to do , uh , ten minutes .\nGrad C: Yeah , I don't doubt it . Um , so .\nPhD B: So right now the {disfmarker} what you 're doing is you 're taking the {disfmarker} uh , the o original version and you 're sort of channelizing yourself , right ?\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . I 'm doing it myself . I mean i if the time markings aren't different across channels , like the channelized version really doesn't have any more information .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: So , I was just {disfmarker} I mean , originally I had done before like the channelized versions were coming out .\nPhD B: Right . Right .\nGrad C: Um ,\n",
      "PhD B: So I {disfmarker} I th I think probably the way it 'll go is that , you know , when we make this first general version and then start working on the script , that script @ @ that will be ma you know primarily come from what you 've done , um , we 'll need to work on a channelized version of those originals .\nGrad C: and so it 's a question of like what {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: And so it should be pretty much identical to what you have t except for the one that they 've already tightened the boundaries on .\nPostdoc E: Yep . Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Right .\nPhD B: Um , So\nPostdoc E: Yeah , I mean {disfmarker}\nPhD B: uh , and then probably what will happen is as the transcribers finish tightening more and more , you know , that original version will get updated\nPostdoc E: yeah .\nPhD B: and then we 'll rerun the script and produce better uh versions .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: But the {disfmarker} I guess the ef the effect for you guys , because you 're pulling out the little wave forms into separate ones , that would mean these boundaries are constantly changing you 'd have to constantly re rerun that ,\nGrad C: I know .\nPhD B: so , maybe {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Right .\nPostdoc E: But that {disfmarker}\nPhD G: But that {disfmarker} that 's not hard .\nPostdoc E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: No .\n",
      "PhD G: I I think the harder part is making sure that the transc the transcription {disfmarker}\nPhD B: OK .\nPhD G: So if you b merge two things , then you know that it 's the sum of the transcripts , but if you split inside something , you don't where the word {disfmarker} which words moved .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: And that 's wh that 's where it becomes a little bit {disfmarker} uh , having to rerun the processing .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: The cutting of the waveforms is pretty trivial .\nGrad C: Yeah . I mean as long as it can all be done automatically , I mean , then that 's not a concern .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: You know , if I just have to run three scripts to extract it all and let it run on my computer for an hour and a half , or however long it takes to parse and create all the reference file , that 's not a problem .\nPhD G: Right .\nPhD B: Yeah . Uh - huh . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: Um , so yeah . As long as we 're at that point . And I know exactly like what the steps will work {disfmarker} what 's going on , in the editing process ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad C: so . OK .\nPostdoc E: So that 's {disfmarker} I I mean I could {disfmarker} there were other checks that I did , but it 's {disfmarker} I think that we 've {disfmarker} unless you think there 's anything else , I think that I 've covered it .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 29127,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 64,
    "question": "What was said in the meeting?",
    "answer": "The group discussed the preparation of a data sample for IBM, the manual adjustment of time bins by transcribers, recognition results for a test set of digits data, and forced alignments. Participants also talked about Eurospeech 2001 submissions, and exchanged comments on the proceedings of the recently attended Human Language Technologies conference (HLT'01). Preliminary recognition results were presented for a subset of digits data. Efforts to deal with cross-talk and improve forced alignments for non-digits data were also discussed.",
    "docs": [
      "Postdoc A: OK .\nGrad G: How about channel\nProfessor C: Yeah , go ahead .\nGrad E: We 're recording .\nGrad G: Alright .\nProfessor C: Alright , and no crash .\nPostdoc A: Hmm .\nGrad E: I pre - crashed it .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: Pre - crashed !\nPhD D: It never crashes on me .\nGrad E: I think it 's actually {disfmarker}\nPhD D: What is {disfmarker} what is that ?\n",
      "Grad E: it depends on if the temp files are there or not , that {disfmarker} at least that 's my current working hypothesis ,\nPhD D: Ah .\nGrad E: that I think what happens is it tries to clear the temp files and if they 're too big , it crashes .\nPhD D: Ah .\nPhD B: When the power went out the other day and I restarted it , it crashed the first time .\nGrad E: Oh , that 's right .\nPhD B: After the power out\nPhD D: So then there would be no temp files .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: OK . {comment} Hmm .\nGrad E: Uh , no , it doesn't {disfmarker} it doesn't clear those necessarily ,\nPhD D: Oh wait {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it doesn't clear them , OK .\nGrad E: so .\nProfessor C: Hmm , no connection .\nGrad E: It 's {disfmarker} i they 're called temp files , but they 're not actually in the temp directory they 're in the scratch , so . They 're not backed up , but they 're not erased either on power failure .\n",
      "PhD D: But that 's usually the meeting that I recorded , and it neve it doesn't crash on me .\nPhD B: Well this wasn't {disfmarker} Actually , this wasn't a before your meeting , this was , um , Tuesday afternoon when , um , uh , Robert just wanted to do a little recording ,\nGrad E: Oh well .\nPhD D: Oh {disfmarker} Oh , right .\nPhD B: and the power had gone out earlier in the day .\nPhD D: OK . Huh , OK .\n",
      "Professor C: I don't know when would be a good excuse for it , but I just can't wait to be giving a talk t and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and use the example from last week with everybody t doing the digits at once .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: That was fun .\nProfessor C: I 'd love to play somebody that .\nPostdoc A: That was fun .\nPhD D: It was quick .\nProfessor C: It was . It was really efficient .\n",
      "PhD B: Talk about a good noise shield . You know ? You wanted to pe keep people from listening in , you could like have that playing outside the room . Nobody could listen in .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Well , I had this idea we could make our whole meeting faster that way .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Everybody give the reports about what they were doing at exactly the same time ,\nPhD D: And we 'll just all leave ,\nPhD B: And then we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll go back later and review the individual channels ,\nProfessor C: yeah .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Yep , and then everyone can listen to it later .\nPhD B: right ?\nGrad E: Yes . Absolutely .\nPhD B: If you wanna know what {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Actually isn't that what we have been doing ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: It 's what it sounds like .\nPhD B: Practically , huh . With all the overlaps .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: What are we doing ?\nGrad E: I {disfmarker} Since I 've been gone all week , I didn't send out a reminder for an agenda , so .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , and I 'm just {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Do we have anything to talk about or should we just read digits and go ?\nPhD B: I wouldn't mind hearing how the conference was .\nProfessor C: What conference ?\nPhD D: Uh , I had one question about {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah , really . It 's all a blur .\nPhD D: Aren't the UW folks coming this weekend ?\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD F: No . The next ,\nPhD D: Next weekend ?\nGrad E: Next weekend , week from {disfmarker}\nPhD F: right ?\n",
      "Professor C: That is right . The next weekend .\nPhD D: Sorry , not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not the days coming up , but {disfmarker}\nPhD F: It 's like the {disfmarker}\nGrad E: A week from Saturday .\nPhD D: Yeah ,\nProfessor C: That 's when they 're coming .\nPhD D: within ten days .\nProfessor C: That 's correct .\nPhD D: So , are we {disfmarker} do we have like an agenda or anything that we should be {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: No , but that would be a good idea .\n",
      "PhD D: OK .\nProfessor C: Why don't we w\nPhD F: So {disfmarker} so the deal is that I can , um , {vocalsound} uh , I can be available after , uh , like ten thirty or something . I don't know how s how early you wanted to {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: They 're not even gonna be here until eleven or so .\nGrad E: That 's good .\nPhD F: Oh , OK . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Cuz they 're flying up that day .\n",
      "PhD D: Wait , this is on {disfmarker} on Sunday ?\nProfessor C: Saturday .\nPhD D: Or Saturday ?\nProfessor C: Saturday .\nPhD F: Saturday .\nProfessor C: S Saturday .\nPhD D: OK .\nGrad E: Well , y\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Eurospeech is due on Friday and then I 'm going down to San {disfmarker} uh , San Jose Friday night , so , if {disfmarker} you know , if we start nice and late Saturday that 's a good thing .\n",
      "Professor C: No , I mean , they 're flying up from {disfmarker} from {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Seattle .\nProfessor C: down from Seattle .\nGrad E: They 're flying from somewhere to somewhere ,\nProfessor C: Yeah , and they 'll end up here . So b and also Brian Kingsbury is actually flying from , uh , the east coast on that {disfmarker} that morning .\nPostdoc A: Excellent .\nProfessor C: So , i I {disfmarker} I will be {disfmarker} I mean , he 's taking a very early flight\nPhD F: Oh .\n",
      "Professor C: and we do have the time work difference running the right way , but I still think that there 's no way we could start before eleven . It might end up really being twelve . So when we get closer we 'll find people 's plane schedules , and let everybody know . Uh , So . That 's good .\nGrad E: But , uh , yeah maybe an agenda , or at least some things to talk about would be a good idea .\nProfessor C: Well we can start gathering those {disfmarker} those ideas , but then we {disfmarker} we should firm it up by next {disfmarker} next Thursday 's meeting .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Will we have time to , um , to prepare something that we {disfmarker} in the format we were planning for the IBM transcribers by then , or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad E: Oh yeah . Absolutely .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nGrad E: So have you heard back from Brian about that , Chuck ?\n",
      "PhD B: Yes , um , he 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , I should have forwarded that along . Uh , {vocalsound} oh I {disfmarker} I think I mentioned at the last meeting , he said that , um , he talked to them and it was fine {disfmarker} with the beeps they would be {disfmarker} That 's easy for them to do .\n",
      "Grad E: Great . OK . So , uh , oh , though Thi - Thilo isn't here , um , but , uh , I {disfmarker} I have the program to insert the beeps . What I don't have is something to parse the output of the channelized transcripts to find out where to put the beeps , but that should be really easy to do . So do we have a meeting that that 's been done with ,\nPostdoc A: He 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: that we 've tightened it up to the point where we can actually give it to IBM and have them try it out ?\nPostdoc A: He generated , um , a channel - wise presegmented version of a meeting , but it was Robustness rather than EDU so I guess depends on whether we 're willing to use Robustness ?\nPhD B: Well for this experiment I think we can use pre pretty much anything .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nPhD B: This experiment of just {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Well we had {disfmarker} we had talked about doing maybe EDU as a good choice , though . Well , {vocalsound} whatever we have .\nPhD B: Well we 've talked about that as being the next ones we wanted to transcribe .\nGrad E: Right .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nPhD B: But for the purpose of sending him a sample one to {disfmarker} f\nGrad E: Yeah , maybe it doesn't matter .\nPostdoc A: Great .\nPhD B: I {disfmarker} I don't think it matte\n",
      "Postdoc A: I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll , um , get {disfmarker} make that available .\nGrad E: OK , and has it been corrected ?\nPostdoc A: Oh , well , wait . Um {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Hand - checked ? Cuz that was one of the {vocalsound} processes we were talking about as well .\nPhD B: Right , so we need to run Thilo 's thing on it ,\nPostdoc A: That 's right .\nPhD B: and then we go in and adjust the boundaries .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Yeah that 's right . Yeah , we haven't done that . I {disfmarker} I could set someone on that tomorrow .\nPhD B: Right .\nGrad E: And time how long it takes .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc A: I think they 're coming {disfmarker}\nPhD B: And we probably don't have to do necessarily a whole meeting for that if we just wanna send them a sample to try .\nPostdoc A: OK . What would be a good number of minutes ?\n",
      "PhD B: I don't know , maybe we can figure out how long it 'll take @ @ to {disfmarker} to do .\nGrad E: Um , I don't know , it seems to me w we probably should go ahead and do a whole meeting because we 'll have to transcribe the whole meeting anyway sometime .\nProfessor C: Yes except that if they had {disfmarker} if there was a choice between having fifteen minutes that was fully the way you wanted it , and having a whole meeting that didn't get at what you wanted for them {disfmarker} It 's just dependent of how much {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Like I {disfmarker} I mean I guess if we have to do it again anyway , but , uh\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD B: I guess , the only thing I 'm not sure about is , um , how quickly can the transcribers scan over and fix the boundaries ,\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and {disfmarker} I mean , is it pretty easy ?\nGrad E: I think it 's gonna be one or two times real time at {disfmarker} Wow , excuse me , two or more times real time , right ? Cuz they have to at least listen to it .\n",
      "Professor C: Can we pipeline it so that say there 's , uh , the transcriber gets done with a quarter of the meeting and then we {disfmarker} you run it through this other {disfmarker} other stuff ? Uh ,\nGrad E: Well the other stuff is I B I 'm just thinking that from a data {disfmarker} keeping - track - of - the - data point of view , it may be best to send them whole meetings at a time and not try to send them bits and pieces .\n",
      "Professor C: OK , so . Oh , that 's right . So the first thing is the automatic thing , and then it 's {disfmarker} then it 's {disfmarker} then it 's the transcribers tightening stuff up ,\nGrad E: Right .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and then it 's IBM .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor C: OK , so you might as well ha run the automatic thing over the entire meeting , and then {disfmarker} and then , uh , you would give IBM whatever was fixed .\n",
      "Postdoc A: And have them fix it over the entire meeting too ?\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor C: Well , yeah , but start from the beginning and go to the end , right ? So if they were only half way through then that 's what you 'd give IBM .\nPostdoc A: OK .\nProfessor C: Right ?\nPhD B: As of what point ? I mean . The {disfmarker} I guess the question on my mind is do we wait for the transcribers to adjust the marks for the whole meeting before we give anything to IBM , or do we go ahead and send them a sample ? Let their {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Why wouldn't we s @ @ w i if they were going sequentially through it , why wouldn't we give them {disfmarker} I mean i are we trying to get something done by the time Brian comes ?\nPhD B: Well I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know .\nGrad E: That was the question . Though .\nProfessor C: So if we {disfmarker} if we were , then it seems like giving them something , whatever they had gotten up to , would be better than nothing .\nPhD B: Yeah . Uh . That {disfmarker} I agree . I agree .\n",
      "Grad E: Well , I don't think {disfmarker} I mean , h they {disfmarker} they typically work for what , four hours , something like that ?\nPostdoc A: Hmm , I gue hmm .\nGrad E: I think the they should be able to get through a whole meeting in one sitting . I would think , unless it 's a lot harder than we think it is , which it could be , certainly .\nPostdoc A: If it 's got like for speakers then I guess {disfmarker} I mean if {disfmarker}\nPhD B: We 're just doing the individual channels ,\n",
      "Grad E: Or seven or eight .\nPhD B: right ?\nPostdoc A: Individual channels . Yeah .\nPhD B: So it 's gonna be , depending on the number of people in the meeting , um ,\nPostdoc A: I guess there is this issue of , you know , if {disfmarker} if the segmenter thought there was no speech on {disfmarker} on a particular stretch , on a particular channel ,\nGrad E: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: and there really was , then , if it didn't show up in a mixed signal to verify , then it might be overlooked , so , I mean , the question is \" should {disfmarker} should a transcriber listen to the entire thing or can it g can it be based on the mixed signal ? \" And I th eh so far as I 'm concerned it 's fine to base it on the mixed signal at this point , and {disfmarker}\nGrad E: That 's what it seems to me too , in that if they need to , just like in the other cases , they can listen to the individual , if they need to .\n",
      "Postdoc A: And that cuts down the time . Yeah .\nGrad E: But they don't have to for most of it .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , that 's good . So . Yeah . Good , good , good .\nPhD B: I don't see how that will work , though .\nPostdoc A: What {disfmarker} what aspect ?\nProfessor C: So you 're talking about tightening up time boundaries ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So how do you {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So , they have the normal channeltrans interface where they have each individual speaker has their own line ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: but you 're listening to the mixed signal and you 're tightening the boundaries , correcting the boundaries . You shouldn't have to tighten them too much because Thilo 's program does that .\nPostdoc A: Should be pretty good , yeah .\nPhD D: Except for {vocalsound} it doesn't do well on short things , remember .\nGrad E: Right , so {disfmarker} so you 'll have to I {disfmarker}\nPhD D: It will miss them . It will miss most of the really short things .\nGrad E: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: Like that .\n",
      "Postdoc A: But those would be {disfmarker} those would be {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh - huh . It will {disfmarker} it will miss {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Uh - huh !\nPhD D: Yeah , you have to say \" uh - huh \" more slowly to {disfmarker} to get c\nGrad E: Sorry .\nPhD D: No , I 'm s I 'm actually serious .\nGrad E: I 'll work on that .\nPhD D: So it will miss stuff like that which {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Well , so {disfmarker} so that 's something that the transcribers will have to {disfmarker} have to do .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , but presumably , most of those they should be able to hear from the mixed signal unless they 're embedded in the heavil heavy overlap section when {disfmarker} in which case they 'd be listening to the channels anyway .\nPhD B: That 's {disfmarker} that 's what I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm concerned about the part .\nPhD D: Right , and that 's what I 'm not sure about .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Yeah , I am too . And I think it 's an empirical question .\nPhD B: Can't we {disfmarker} uh couldn't we just have , um , I don't know , maybe this just doesn't fit with the software , but I guess if I didn't know anything about Transcriber and I was gonna make something to let them adjust boundaries , I would just show them one channel at a time , with the marks , and let them adju\nPostdoc A: Oh they can {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Well , but then they have to do {disfmarker} but then they {disfmarker} for this meeting they would have to do seven times real time , and it would probably be more than that .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , that 's it . Yeah .\nGrad E: Right ? Because they 'd have to at least listen to each channel all the way through .\nPostdoc A: And if {disfmarker}\nPhD B: But i but it 's very quick ,\nPostdoc A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD B: right ? I mean , you scan {disfmarker} I mean , if you have a display of the waveform .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Oh , you 're talking about visually .\nPostdoc A: w Well , the other problem is the breaths\nGrad E: I just don't think {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: cuz you also see the breaths on the waveform . I 've {disfmarker} I 've looked at the int uh , s I 've tried to do that with a single channel , and {disfmarker} and you do see all sorts of other stuff besides just the voice .\n",
      "PhD B: Uh - huh .\nGrad E: Yeah , and I {disfmarker} I think that they 're going much more on acoustics than they are on visuals .\nPostdoc A: Well that {disfmarker} that I 'm not sure .\nGrad E: So .\nPostdoc A: What you {disfmarker} the digital {disfmarker} what the digital task that you had your interface ? Um , I know for a fact that one of those {disfmarker} sh she could really well {disfmarker} she could judge what th what the number was based on the {disfmarker} on the waveform .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , that 's actually true . Yeah , you 're right . You 're absolutely right . Yeah , I found the same thing that when I was scanning through the wave form {vocalsound} I could see when someone started to read digits just by the shapes .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , she could tell which one was seven .\nGrad E: Um , maybe .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So I don't {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm now entirely confused about what they do .\nGrad E: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: So , they 're {disfmarker} they 're looking at a mixed signal , or they 're looking {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what are they looking at visually ?\nPostdoc A: Well , they have a choice . They could choose any signal to look at . I 've tried lookin but usually they look at the mixed . But I 've {disfmarker} I 've tried looking at the single signal and {disfmarker} and in order to judge when it {disfmarker} when it was speech and when it wasn't ,\nGrad E: Oh .\n",
      "Postdoc A: but the problem is then you have breaths which {disfmarker} which show up on the signal .\nProfessor C: But the procedure that you 're imagining , I mean , people vary from this , is that they have the mixed signal wave form in front of them ,\nPostdoc A: Yes .\nPhD F: \nPostdoc A: Yes .\nProfessor C: and they have multiple , uh , well , let 's see , there isn't {disfmarker} we don't have transcription yet . So {disfmarker} but there 's markers of some sort that have been happening automatically ,\nPostdoc A: Yes .\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: and those show up on the mixed signal ?\nPostdoc A: Oh ,\nProfessor C: There 's a @ @ clicks ?\nGrad E: N the t\nPostdoc A: they show up on the separate ribbons . So you have a separate ribbon for each channel ,\nProfessor C: There 're separate ribbons .\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc A: and {disfmarker} and i i it 'll be {disfmarker} because it 's being segmented as channel at a time with his {disfmarker} with Thilo 's new procedure , then you don't have the correspondence of the times across the bins {disfmarker} uh across the ribbons uh you could have {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: And is there a line moving across the waveform as it goes ?\nGrad E: Yes .\nPostdoc A: Yes .\n",
      "Professor C: OK , so The way you 're imaging is they kind of play it , and they see oh this happened , then this happened , then {disfmarker} and if it 's about right , they just sort of let it slide ,\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Right . Right .\nProfessor C: and if it {disfmarker} if it {disfmarker} there 's a question on something , they stop and maybe look at the individual wave form .\nPostdoc A: Oh , well not {disfmarker} not \" look \" .\n",
      "Grad E: Right . Well , they wouldn't look at it {pause} at this point . They would just listen .\nProfessor C: They {disfmarker} they might look at it , right ?\nGrad E: Well , the problem is that the {disfmarker} the interface doesn't really allow you to switch visuals .\nPostdoc A: Not very quickly .\nGrad E: The problem is that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} the Tcl - TK interface with the visuals , it 's very slow to load waveforms .\nPostdoc A: You can but it takes time . That 's it .\nProfessor C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad E: And so when I tried {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that was the first thing I tried when I first started it ,\nPostdoc A: Oh , oh . Visually . You can {disfmarker} you can switch quickly between the audio ,\nGrad E: right ?\nPostdoc A: but you just can't get the visual display to show quickly . So you have to {disfmarker} It takes , I don't know , three , four minutes to {disfmarker} Well , I mean , it takes {disfmarker} it takes long enough {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , it 's very slow to do that .\nPostdoc A: It takes long enough cuz it has to reload the I {disfmarker} I don't know exactly what it 's doing frankly cuz {disfmarker} but it t it takes long enough that it 's just not a practical alternative .\nPhD D: That w\nGrad E: Well it {disfmarker} it does some sort of shape pre - computation so that it can then scroll it quickly ,\nGrad G: But you can cancel that .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: yeah . But then you can't change the resolution or scroll quickly .\n",
      "Grad G: Oh , really ?\nPostdoc A: Now you could set up multiple windows , each one with a different signal showing , and then look between the windows .\nGrad E: So .\nGrad G: Huh !\nPostdoc A: Maybe that 's the solution .\nGrad E: I mean , we {disfmarker} we could do different interfaces ,\nGrad G: What if you preload them all ?\nGrad E: right ? I mean , so {disfmarker} so we could use like X Waves instead of Transcriber ,\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad E: and it loads faster , certainly .\n",
      "Grad G: What if you were to preload all the channels or {disfmarker} or initially {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Well that 's what I tried originally .\nGrad G: like doesn't {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So I {disfmarker} I actually before , uh , Dave Gelbart did this , I did an interface which showed each waveform and ea a ribbon for each waveform ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: but the problem with it is even with just three waveforms it was just painfully slow to scroll . So you just scroll a screen and it would , you know go \" kur - chunk ! \"\n",
      "Grad G: Oh , OK .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: And so it just was not doable with the current interface .\nPostdoc A: You know , I am thinking if we have a meeting with only four speakers and , you know , you could fire up a Transcriber interface for , y you know , in different windows , multiple ones , one for each channel . And it 's sort of a {disfmarker} a hack but I mean it would be one way of seeing the visual form .\n",
      "Grad E: I think that if we decide that we need {disfmarker} that they need to see the visuals , we need to change the interface so that they can do that .\nPostdoc A: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: So {disfmarker}\nPhD D: That 's actually what I thought of , loading the chopped up waveforms , I mean , you know , that {disfmarker} that would make it faster {disfmarker}\nGrad E: An But isn't {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Hmm .\nGrad E: The chopped up waveforms .\n",
      "PhD B: The problem is if {disfmarker} if anything 's cut off , you can't expand it from the chopped up {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So .\nGrad E: Isn't that {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD D: Right , but if you a at some point {disfmarker}\nGrad E: And wouldn't that be the same {comment} as the mixed signal ?\nPhD D: No , I mean the individual channels that were chopped up that {disfmarker} it 'd be nice to be able to go back and forth between those short segments .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Cuz you don't really nee like nine tenths of the time you 're throwing most of them out , but what you need are tho that particular channel , or that particular location ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD D: and ,\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nPhD D: um , might be nice , cuz we save those out already , {comment} um , to be able to do that . But it won't work for IBM of course , it only works here cuz they 're not saving out the individual channels .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well , I {disfmarker} I do think that this {disfmarker} this will be a doable procedure ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: and have them starting with mixed\nProfessor C: OK .\nPostdoc A: and , um , then when they get into overlaps , just have them systematically check all the channels to be sure that there isn't something hidden from {disfmarker} from audio view .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah . Yeah , hopefully , I mean {disfmarker} The mixed signal , the overlaps are pretty audible because it is volume equalized . So I think they should be able to hear . The only problem is {disfmarker} is , you know , counting how many and if they 're really correct or not . So , I don't know .\nPhD D: I don't know that you can locate them very well from the mixed signal ,\nGrad E: Right but {disfmarker} but once {disfmarker} once you know that they happen , you can at least listen to the close talking ,\n",
      "PhD D: but you would know that they were there , and then you would switch . Right . And then you would switch into the other {disfmarker}\nGrad E: so .\nProfessor C: But right now , to do this limitation , the switching is going to be switching of the audio ? Is what she 's saying .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor C: So {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Right , so {disfmarker} so\nProfessor C: so they 're using their ears to do these markings anyway .\n",
      "Grad E: did Dave {disfmarker} Did Dave do that change where you can actually just click rather than having to go up to the menu to listen to the individual channels ?\nPostdoc A: Yes . Yes .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Click {disfmarker} Um ,\nGrad E: I had suggested it before . I just don't know whether he did it or not .\nPostdoc A: I 'm not sure what {disfmarker} click what {disfmarker} click on the ribbon ? Yeah , you can get that {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc A: oh , oh , get {disfmarker} you can get the , uh {disfmarker} you can get it to switch audio ? Uh , not last I tried ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: but , um , maybe he 's changed it again .\nGrad E: We should get him to do that because , uh , I think that would be much , much faster than going to the menu .\n",
      "Postdoc A: I disagree . There 's a reason I disagree , and that is that , uh , you {disfmarker} it 's very good to have a dissociation between the visual and the audio . There 're times when I wanna hear the mixed signal , bu but I want to transcribe on the single channel . So right now {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Then maybe just buttons down at the bottom next to it .\nPostdoc A: Maybe , I just don't {disfmarker} I don't see that it 's a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Just something so that it 's not in the menu option so that you can do it much faster .\nPostdoc A: Well , I mean , that 's the i I {disfmarker} I think that might be a personal style thing . I find it really convenient the way {disfmarker} the way it 's set up right now .\n",
      "Grad E: Well it just seems to me that if you wanna quickly {disfmarker} \" well was that Jane , no , was that Chuck , no , was that Morgan \" , right now , you have to go up to the menu , and each time , go up to the menu , select it , listen to that channel then click below , and then go back to the menu , select the next one , and then click below .\nPostdoc A: That 's fine . Yeah , it 's true .\nGrad E: So you can definitely streamline that with the i with the interface .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Yeah , it could be faster , but , you know , I mean , th in the ideal world {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad E: What ?\nPostdoc A: No I {disfmarker} I agree that 'd be nice . Yeah . OK .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: So , um , Done with that ?  Does any {disfmarker} I forget , does anybody , uh , working on any {disfmarker} any Eurospeech submission related to this ?\n",
      "Grad E: I would like to try to do something on digits but I just don't know if we have time . I mean , it 's due next Friday so we have to do the experiments and write the paper . So , I 'm gonna try , but , uh , we 'll just have to see . So actually I wanna get together with both Andreas and , uh , uh , Stephane with their respective systems .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . Yeah there was that {disfmarker} we that 's right , we had that one conversation about , uh , what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what did it mean for , uh , one of those speakers to be pathological , was it a {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Right , and I haven't had s chance to sit down and listen .\nPhD F: Oh , I haven't {disfmarker} I haven't listened to them either ,\nGrad E: I was going to do that this afternoon .\nPhD F: but there must be something wrong , I mean ,\n",
      "Grad E: Well , Morgan and I were {disfmarker} were having a debate {comment} about that .\nPhD F: unless our {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Whereas I think it it 's probably something pathologic and actually Stephane 's results , I think confirm that . He s he did the Aurora system also got very lousy average error , like fifteen or {disfmarker} or , uh , fifteen to twenty percent average ? But then he ran it just on the lapel , and got about five or six percent word error ? So that {disfmarker} that means to me that somewhere in the other recordings there are some pathological cases . But , you know , we {disfmarker} th that may not be true . It may be just some of the segments they 're just doing a lousy job on . So I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll listen to it and find out since you 'd actually split it up by segment .\n",
      "Professor C: Right .\nGrad E: So I can actually listen to it .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD B: Did you run the {disfmarker} Andreas {disfmarker} the r SRI recognizer on the digits ?\nGrad E: Oh , I thought he had sent that around to everyone ,\nPhD F: Yeah .\nGrad E: did you just sent that to me ?\nPhD F: No , I d I didn't .\nGrad E: Oh .\nPhD F: Since I considered those preliminary , I didn't .\nPhD B: I it wasn't {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: But , yeah , if you take {disfmarker}\nGrad E: It was bimodal .\nPhD F: So if you {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's actually , um , it {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} it was trimodal , actually {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Oh , was it trimodal , OK .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: trimodal , so\nProfessor C: There 's zero , a little bit , and a lot .\n",
      "PhD F: there were {disfmarker} {vocalsound} t there was {disfmarker} there was one h one bump at ze around zero , which were the native speakers ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD B: Zero percent error ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: the non - pathological native speakers .\nProfessor C: Y yeah .\nPhD F: Then there was another bump at , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} oh , like fifteen or something .\nPhD B: This is error you 're talking about ?\nProfessor C: Oh was it fifteen ?\nPhD F: whe\n",
      "PhD B: OK .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah . Those were the non - natives . And then there was another distinct bump at , like , a hundred , {vocalsound} which must have been some problem .\nPostdoc A: Oh , wow ! Oh , OK .\nPhD F: I can't imagine that {disfmarker}\nGrad G: What is patho what do you mean by pathological ?\nGrad E: Just {disfmarker} just something really wrong with {disfmarker}\nGrad G: I 'm sorry , I don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: A bug is what I mean ,\nPhD F: In the recording\nGrad G: Oh .\nGrad E: so that it 's like {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Oh , OK .\nPhD F: And there was this one meeting , I forget which one it was , where like , uh , six out of the eight channels were all , like {disfmarker} had a hundred percent error .\nGrad G: I see .\nGrad E: Which probably means like there was a {disfmarker} th the recording interface crashed ,\nGrad G: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: or there was a short {disfmarker} you know , someone was jiggling with a cord\nPhD F: But {disfmarker}\nGrad E: or , uh , I extracted it incorrectly ,\nPhD F: But {disfmarker}\nGrad E: it was labeled {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: it was transcribed incorrectly , something really bad happened , and I just haven't listened to it yet to find out what it was .\nGrad G: OK .\n",
      "PhD F: So , if I excluded the pathological ones , {vocalsound} by definition , those that had like over ninety - five percent error rate , {vocalsound} and the non - natives , then the average error rate was like one point four or something ,\nProfessor C: What we 're calling .\nPostdoc A: Oh . Oh .\nPhD F: which {disfmarker} which seemed reasonable given that , you know , the models weren't tuned for {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for it .\nGrad G: Hmm !\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD F: And the grammar wasn't tuned either .\n",
      "PhD B: And it didn't matter whether it was the lapel or whether it was the {disfmarker}\nPhD F: It was just a @ @ . I haven't split it up that way ,\nPhD D: But there 's no overlap during the digit readings , so it shouldn't really matter .\nPhD F: but it would be {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Right .\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor C: No , but there 's a little difference ,\nPhD F: So it should {disfmarker}\nGrad E: There 's a lot .\n",
      "Professor C: and we haven't looked at it for digits ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: right ?\nPhD B: Yeah , so I was curious about that .\nProfessor C: And so , cuz {disfmarker} because what he was {disfmarker} what I was saying when I looked at those things is it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} I was almost gonna call it quadrimodal because {vocalsound} {disfmarker} because there was a whole lot of cases where it was zero percent .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: They just plain got it all right . And then there {disfmarker} and then there was another bunch that were couple percent or something .\nPhD F: Yeah . But if you p if you actually histogrammed it , and {disfmarker} it was a nice {disfmarker} uh , you know , it {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} zero was the most of them ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: A normal . Yeah .\nPhD F: but then there were {disfmarker} the others were sort of decaying from there .\nProfessor C: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: And then there was the bump for the non - natives and then the pathological ones ,\nProfessor C: I see . I see .\nPhD F: so .\nGrad E: Yeah , cuz some of our non - natives are pretty non - native . So .\nPostdoc A: You {disfmarker} did you have , uh , something in the report about , uh , {disfmarker} about , uh , for f uh , forced alignment ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Have you {disfmarker} have you started on that ?\n",
      "PhD F: Oh , well , yeah , so I 've been struggling with the forced alignments . Um . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So the scheme that I drew on the board last time where we tried to , um {vocalsound} allow reject models for the s speech from other speakers , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} most of the time it doesn't work very well . So , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} and the {disfmarker} I haven't done {disfmarker} I mean , the only way to check this right now was for me to actually {vocalsound} load these into X Waves and , you know , plus the alignments , and s play them and see where the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Hmm .\nPhD F: And it looks {disfmarker} And so I looked at all of the utterances from you , Chuck , in that one conversation , I don't know which {disfmarker} You probably know which one I mean , it 's where you were on the lapel {vocalsound} and Morgan was sitting next to you and we can hear everything Morgan says .\nPostdoc A: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: But {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and some of what you {disfmarker} I mean , you also appear quite a bit in that cross - talk . So , {vocalsound} I actually went through all of those , there were I think fifty - five segments , {vocalsound} um , in {disfmarker} in X Waves , and {disfmarker} and sort of did a crude check , and {vocalsound} more often than not , it {disfmarker} it gets it wrong . So there 's either the beginning , mostly the beginning word , {vocalsound} where th you , um , you know , Chuck talks somewhere into the segment , but the first , um , word of what he says , often \" I \" but it 's very reduced \" I , \" that 's just aligned {vocalsound} to the beginning of someone else 's speech , uh in that segment , which is cross - talk . So , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} I 'm still tinkering with it , but it might well be that we can't get clean alignments out of this {disfmarker} out of those , uh , {vocalsound} channels , so .\n",
      "Professor C: Unless maybe we do this , uh , um , cancellation business .\nPhD D: Right , but that 's {disfmarker} I mean , that was our plan ,\nPhD F: Yeah , right .\nPhD D: but it 's clear from Dan that this is not something you can do in a short amount of time .\nProfessor C: Oh , the short amount of time thing , right .\nPhD D: So {disfmarker} so we {disfmarker} you know , we had spent a lot of time , um , writing up the HLT paper and we wanted to use that , uh , kind of analysis ,\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: but the HLT paper has , you know , it 's a very crude measure of overlap . It 's not really something you could scientifically say is overlap , it 's just whether or not the , um , the segments that were all synchronized , whether there was some overlap somewhere .\nGrad E: c High correlation .\n",
      "PhD D: And , you know , that pointed out some differences , so he thought well if we can do something quick and dirty because Dan said the cross - cancellation , it 's not straight - forward . If it were straight - forward then we would try it , but {disfmarker} so , it 's sort of good to hear that it was not straight - forward , thinking if we can get decent forced alignments , then at least we can do sort of a overall report of what happens with actual overlap in time , but , um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I didn't think that his message said it wasn't straight - forward .\n",
      "Grad E: Well if we 'd just {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Well\nPhD B: I thought he 's just saying you have to look over a longer time window when you do it .\nGrad E: Um - hmm .\nPhD D: and the {disfmarker} but there are some issues of this timing , um , in the recordings\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD B: Right .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So you just have to look over longer time when you 're trying to align the things , you can't {disfmarker} you can't just look {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Well . are you talking about the fact that the recording software doesn't do time - synchronous ? Is that what you 're referring to ?\nProfessor C: \nGrad E: That seems to me you can do that over the entire file and get a very accurate {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I don't thi I d I don't think that was the issue .\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} yeah , that was sort of a side issue .\nGrad E: I didn't think so either .\n",
      "PhD F: The issue was that you have {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} you have have {disfmarker} you first have to have a pretty good speech detection on the individual channels .\nPhD D: And it 's dynamic , so I guess it was more dynamic than some simple models would be able t to {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so there are some things available , and I don't know too much about this area where if people aren't moving around much than you could apply them , and it should work pretty well if you took care of this recording time difference .\nGrad E: Right , which should be pretty straight forward .\n",
      "PhD D: Which a at least is well defined , and\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD D: um , but then if you add the dynamic aspect of adapting distances , then it wasn't {disfmarker} I guess it just wasn't something that he could do quickly {pause} and not {disfmarker} in time for us to be able to do something by two weeks from now , so . Well less than a week . So {disfmarker} um , so I don't know what we can do if anything , that 's sort of worth , you know , a Eurospeech paper at this point .\n",
      "PhD B: Well , Andreas , how well did it work on the non - lapel stuff ?\nGrad E: Yeah . That 's what I was gonna say .\nPhD F: I haven't checked those yet .\nGrad E: C\nPhD F: It 's very tedious to check these .\nPhD B: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD F: Um , we would really need , ideally , a transcriber {vocalsound} to time mark the {disfmarker} you know , the be at least the beginning and s ends {comment} of contiguous speech . Um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} and , you know , then with the time marks , you can do an automatic comparison of your {disfmarker} of your forced alignments .\n",
      "PhD B: Because {disfmarker} really the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} at least in terms of how we were gonna use this in our system was to get an ideal {disfmarker} an idea , uh , for each channel about the start and end boundaries .\nGrad E: Oh , MNCM . \nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: We don't really care about like intermediate word boundaries , so {disfmarker}\nPhD F: No , that 's how I 've been looking at it .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: I mean , I don't care that the individual words are aligned correctly ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD F: but {vocalsound} you don't wanna , uh , infer from the alignment that someone spoke who didn't .\nPhD B: Right , exactly . So that 's why I was wondering if it {disfmarker}\nPhD F: so , so {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I mean , maybe if it doesn't work for lapel stuff , we can just not use that\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD B: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: I haven't {disfmarker} I ha just haven't had the time to , um , do the same procedure on one of the {disfmarker} so I would need a k I would need a channel that has {vocalsound} a speaker whose {disfmarker} who has a lot of overlap but s you know , is a non - lapel mike . And , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} where preferably , also there 's someone sitting next to them who talks a lot .\nGrad E: Hmm !\nPhD F: So , I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: So a meeting with me in it .\nPhD F: maybe someone can help me find a good candidate and then I would be willing to\nPhD B: We c you know what ? Maybe the best way to find that would be to look through these .\nPhD F: you know , hand\nPhD B: Cuz you can see the seat numbers , and then you can see what type of mike they were using . And so we just look for , you know , somebody sitting next to Adam at one of the meetings {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Actually y we can tell from the data that we have ,\n",
      "PhD F: From the insertions , maybe ?\nPhD D: um , yeah , there 's a way to tell .\nPhD F: fr fr from the {disfmarker}\nPhD D: It might not be a single person who 's always overlapping that person but any number of people ,\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: and , um , if you align the two hypothesis files across the channels , you know , just word alignment , you 'd be able to find that . So {disfmarker} so I guess that 's sort of a last {disfmarker} ther there 're sort of a few things we could do . One is just do like non - lapels if we can get good enough alignments . Another one was to try to get {disfmarker} somehow align Thilo 's energy segmentations with what we have . But then you have the problem of not knowing where the words are because these meetings were done before that segmentation . But maybe there 's something that could be done .\n",
      "PhD B: What {disfmarker} what is {disfmarker} why do you need the , um , the forced alignment for the HLT {disfmarker} I mean for the Eurospeech paper ?\n",
      "PhD D: Well , I guess I {disfmarker} I wanted to just do something not on recognition experiments because that 's ju way too early , but to be able to report , you know , actual numbers . Like if we {disfmarker} if we had hand - transcribed pe good alignments or hand - checked alignments , then we could do this paper . It 's not that we need it to be automatic . But without knowing where the real words are , in time {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: So it was to get {disfmarker} it was to get more data and better {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to squeeze the boundaries in .\nPhD D: To {disfmarker} to know what an overlap really {disfmarker} if it 's really an overlap , or if it 's just a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a segment correlated with an overlap ,\nPhD B: Ah , OK . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: and I guess that 's the difference to me between like a real paper and a sort of , promissory paper . So , um , if we d it might be possible to take Thilo 's output and like if you have , um , like right now these meetings are all ,\nGrad E: Ugh ! I forgot the digital camera again .\nPhD D: um ,\nGrad E: Every meeting !\n",
      "PhD D: you know , they 're time - aligned , so if these are two different channels and somebody 's talking here and somebody else is talking here , just that word , if Thilo can tell us that there 're boundaries here , we should be able to figure that out\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: because the only thing transcribed in this channel is this word . But , um , you know , if there are things {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Two words .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , if you have two and they 're at the edges , it 's like here and here , and there 's speech here , then it doesn't really help you , so , um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Thilo 's won't put down two separate marks in that case {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Well it w it would , but , um , we don't know exactly where the words are because the transcriber gave us two words in this time bin\nGrad E: Thilo 's will . But .\nPhD D: and we don't really know , I mean ,\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well it 's a merging problem . If you had a {disfmarker} if you had a s if you had a script which would {disfmarker}\nPhD D: yeah it 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: I 've thought about this , um , and I 've discussed {disfmarker} I 've discussed it with Thilo ,\nPhD D: I mean , if you have any ideas . I would {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: um , the , I mean , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} in principle I could imagine writing a script which would approximate it to some degree , but there is this problem of slippage ,\nGrad E: Well maybe {disfmarker} Maybe that will get enough of the cases to be useful .\nPostdoc A: yeah .\nPhD D: Right . I mean , that {disfmarker} that would be really helpful . That was sort of another possibility .\nGrad E: You know s cuz it seemed like most of the cases are in fact the single word sorts , or at least a single phrase\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well they {disfmarker} they can be stretched .\nGrad E: in most of the bins .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPostdoc A: I wouldn't make that generalization cuz sometimes people will say , \" And then I \" and there 's a long pause\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc A: and finish the sentence and {disfmarker} and sometimes it looks coherent and {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} I mean it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a simple problem . But it 's really {disfmarker} And then it 's coupled with the problem that sometimes , you know , with {disfmarker} with a fricative you might get the beginning of the word cut off and so it 's coupled with the problem that Thilo 's isn't perfect either . I mean , we 've i th it 's like you have a merging problem plus {disfmarker} so merging plus this problem of , uh , not {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Right . Hmm !\nPostdoc A: y i i if the speech - nonspeech were perfect to begin with , the detector , that would already be an improvement , but that 's impossible , you know , i that 's too much to ask .\nPhD D: Right .\nGrad E: Yes .\n",
      "Postdoc A: And so i and may you know , I mean , it 's {disfmarker} I think that there always {disfmarker} th there would have to be some hand - tweaking , but it 's possible that a script could be written to merge those two types of things . I 've {disfmarker} I 've discussed it with Thilo and I mean {disfmarker} in terms of not him doing it , but we {disfmarker} we discussed some of the parameters of that and how hard it would be to {disfmarker} in principle {disfmarker} to write something that would do that .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean , I guess in the future it won't be as much as an issue if transcribers are using the tightened boundaries to start with , then we have a good idea of where the forced alignment is constrained to .\nPostdoc A: Well , it 's just , you know , a matter of we had the revolution {disfmarker} we had the revolution of improved , uh , interface , um , one month too late ,\nPhD D: So I 'm no I don't know if this\nGrad E: Oh . Tools .\nPostdoc A: but it 's like , you know , it 's wonderful to have the revolution ,\n",
      "PhD D: Oh it 's {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: so it 's just a matter of {disfmarker} of , you know , from now on we 'll be able to have things channelized to begin with .\nPhD D: yeah .\nGrad E: Right . And we 'll just have to see how hard that is .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , that 's right .\nGrad E: So {disfmarker} so whether the corrections take too much time .\nPostdoc A: That 's right .\n",
      "Grad E: I was just thinking about the fact that if Thilo 's missed these short segments , that might be quite time - consuming for them to insert them .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Good point .\nPhD D: But he {disfmarker} he also can adjust this minimum time duration constraint and then what you get is noises mostly ,\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Spurious .\nPhD D: but that might be OK , an\nGrad E: It might be easier to delete something that 's wrong than to insert something that 's missing .\n",
      "PhD D: Right . And you can also see in the waveform {disfmarker} exac\nGrad E: What do you think , Jane ?\nPhD D: yeah .\nProfessor C: If you can feel confident that what the {disfmarker} yeah , that there 's actually something {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: that you 're not gonna miss something ,\nGrad E: Yeah . Cuz then {disfmarker} then you just delete it , and you don't have to pick a time .\nProfessor C: yeah .\nPhD D: I think it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well the problem is I {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a really good question , and I really find it a pain in the neck to delete things because you have to get the mouse up there on the t on the text line and i and otherwise you just use an arrow to get down {disfmarker} I mean , i it depends on how lar th there 's so many extra things that would make it one of them harder than the other , or {disfmarker} or vice versa . It 's not a simple question . But , you know , I mean , in principle , like , you know , if one of them is easier then to bias it towards whichever one 's easier .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , I guess the semantics aren't clear when you delete a segment , right ? Because you would say {disfmarker} You would have to determine what the surroundings were .\nPhD D: You could just say it 's a noise , though , and write , you know , a post - processor will just {disfmarker} all you have to do is just {disfmarker}\nGrad E: If it 's really a noise .\nPhD D: or just say it 's {disfmarker} just put \" X , \" you know , like \" not speech \" or something ,\n",
      "Postdoc A: I think it 's easier to add than delete , frankly ,\nPhD D: and then you can get {disfmarker} Yeah , or\nPostdoc A: because you have to , uh , maneuver around on the {disfmarker} on both windows then .\nGrad E: To add or to delete ?\nPostdoc A: To delete .\nPhD D: Anyways , so I {disfmarker} I guess {disfmarker}\nGrad E: OK . That {disfmarker} Maybe that 's an interface issue that might be addressable .\nPostdoc A: It 's possible .\n",
      "Grad E: But I think it 's the semantics that are {disfmarker} that are questionable to me , that you delete something {disfmarker} So let 's say someone is talking to here , and then you have a little segment here . Well , is that part of the speech ? Is it part of the nonspeech ? I mean , w what do you embed it in ?\n",
      "PhD D: There 's something nice , though , about keeping , and this is probably another discussion , keeping the stuff that Thilo 's detector detected as possible speech and just marking it as not speech than deleting it . Because then when you align it , then the alignment can {disfmarker} you can put a reject model or whatever ,\nGrad E: Oh , I see . So then they could just like put {disfmarker} Oh that 's what you meant by just put an \" X \" there .\nPhD D: and you 're consistent with th the automatic system ,\nGrad E: Uh , that 's an interesting idea .\n",
      "PhD D: whereas if you delete it {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So {disfmarker} so all they {disfmarker} So that all they would have to do is put like an \" X \" there .\nPhD D: Yeah , or some , you know , dummy reject mod\nGrad E: So blank for {disfmarker} blank for silence , \" S \" \" S \" for speech , \" X \" \" X \" for something else .\nPhD D: whatever , yeah . That 's actually a better way to do it cuz the a the forced alignment will probably be more consistent than {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well , like , I think there 's a complication which is that {disfmarker} that you can have speech and noise in s\nPhD D: I mean if it 's just as easy , but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: uh , you know , on the same channel , the same speaker , so now sometimes you get a ni microphone pop and , uh , I mean , there 're these fuzzy hybrid cases , and then the problem with the boundaries that have to be shifted around . It 's not a simple {disfmarker} not a simple problem .\n",
      "PhD D: Anyway , quick question , though , at a high level do people think , let 's just say that we 're moving to this new era of like using the , um , pre - segmented t you know , non - synchronous conversations , does it make sense to try to take what we have now , which are the ones that , you know , we have recognition on which are synchronous and not time - tightened , and try to get something out of those for sort of purposes of illustrating the structure and the nature of the meetings , or is it better to just , you know , forget that and tr I mean , it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Well , I think we 'll have to , eventually . And my hope was that we would be able to use the forced alignment to get it .\nPhD D: Right . That was everybody 's hope .\nGrad E: But if we can't {disfmarker}\nPhD D: And maybe we can for the non - lapel , but\nGrad E: But if we can't , then maybe we just have to {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: is it worth {disfmarker} if we can't then we can fake it even if we 're {disfmarker} we report , you know , we 're wrong twenty percent of the time or ten percent of the time .\nGrad E: Well , I 'm thinking {disfmarker} are you talking about for a paper , or are talking about for the corpus .\nPhD D: Uh {disfmarker} uh , that 's a good question actually .\nGrad E: I mean cuz for the corpus it would be nice if everything were {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Actually that 's a good question because we 'd have to completely redo those meetings , and we have like ten of them now .\nGrad E: We wouldn't have to re - do them , we would just have to edit them .\nPostdoc A: Well , and also , I mean , I still haven't {disfmarker} I still haven't given up on forced alignment .\nPhD D: No , you 're right , actually {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: I think that when Brian comes , this 'll be uh an interesting aspect to ask him as well b\nGrad E: When {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc A: when Brian Kingsbury comes .\nGrad E: Oh , Brian . You s I thought you said Ryan . And it 's like , \" Who 's Ryan ? \"\nPostdoc A: Yeah , good question .\nGrad E: OK .\nPostdoc A: Well , Ryan could come .\nPhD D: Uh , no , that 's a good point , though , because for feature extraction like for prosody or something , I mean , the meetings we have now , it 's a good chunk of data {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD D: we need to get a decent f OK .\n",
      "Postdoc A: That 's what my hope has been ,\nPhD D: So we should at least try it even if we can't ,\nPostdoc A: and that 's what {disfmarker} that 's what {disfmarker} you know , ever since the {disfmarker} the February meeting that I transcribed from last year , forced alignment has been on the {disfmarker} on the table as a way of cleaning them up later .\nPhD D: right ?\nGrad E: On the table , right ?\n",
      "Postdoc A: And {disfmarker} and so I 'm hopeful that that 's possible . I know that there 's complication in the overlap sections and with the lapel mikes ,\nPhD F: There 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: but {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD D: I mean , we might be able , at the very worst , we can get transcribers to correct the cases where {disfmarker} I mean , you sort of have a good estimate where these places are because the recognition 's so poor . Right ?\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , we were never just gonna go with these as the final alignments .\nPhD D: And so you 're {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: I agree . I agree .\nPhD B: We were always gonna run them past somebody .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Absolutely .\nPhD D: So we need some way to push these first chunk of meetings into a state where we get good alignments .\n",
      "PhD F: I 'm probably going to spend another day or so trying to improve things by , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} by using , um , acoustic adaptation . Um , the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Right now I 'm using the unadapted models for the forced alignments , and it 's possible that you get considerably better results if you , uh , manage to adapt the , {vocalsound} uh , phone models to the speaker and the reject model to the {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to all the other speech . Um , so\n",
      "PhD B: Could you {disfmarker} could you at the same time adapt the reject model to the speech from all the other channels ?\nProfessor C: That 's what he just said .\nGrad E: That 's what he was saying .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: That 's what I just said .\nPhD B: Oh , not just the speech from that {disfmarker} of the other people from that channel ,\nPhD F: Right .\nPhD B: but the speech from the a actual other channels .\nPhD D: Right .\nPhD F: Oh , oh , I see . Um ,\nProfessor C: Oh .\n",
      "Grad E: I don't think so . I don't think that would work ,\nPhD F: No , it {disfmarker}\nGrad E: right ? Because you 'd {disfmarker} A lot of it 's dominated by channel properties .\nPhD F: th Exactly .\nPhD D: But what you do wanna do is take the , even if it 's klugey , take the segments {disfmarker} the synchronous segments , the ones from the HLT paper , where only that speaker was talking .\nPhD F: So you want to u\n",
      "PhD D: Use those for adaptation , cuz if you {disfmarker} if you use everything , then you get all the cross - talk in the adaptation , and it 's just sort of blurred .\nPhD F: That 's a good point .\nPhD B: If you {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yep .\nPhD D: And that we know , I mean , we have that . And it 's about roughly two - thirds , I mean , very roughly averaged .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD D: That 's not completely negligible . Like a third of it is bad for adaptation or so .\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Cool . I thought it was higher than that , that 's pr\nPhD D: It really {disfmarker} it depends a lot . This is just sort of an overall {disfmarker}\nPhD F: So .\nProfessor C: Well I know what we 're not turning in to Eurospeech , a redo of the HLT paper .\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor C: That {disfmarker} I don't wanna do that ,\nGrad E: Yeah , I 'm doing that for AVIOS .\nProfessor C: but .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . But I think we 're {disfmarker} oh , Morgan 's talk went very well , I think .\nProfessor C: Bleep .\nGrad E: Uh , \" bleep \" . Yeah , really .\nPhD D: I think Morgan 's talk went very well it woke {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Excellent .\nPhD D: you know , it was really a well presented {disfmarker} and got people laughing {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nPhD F: Some good jokes in it ?\nGrad E: Especially the batteried meter popping up ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: that was hilarious . Right when you were talking about that .\nProfessor C: You know , that wa that was the battery meter saying that it was fully charged ,\nGrad E: It 's full . Yeah .\nProfessor C: yeah .\nPostdoc A: You said , \" Speaking about energy \" , or {vocalsound} something .\nGrad E: But that was funny .\nPostdoc A: That was very nice .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: He {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he was onto the bullet points about talking about the {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} the little hand - held , and trying to get lower power and so on ,\nPhD F: Po - low power\nGrad E: and Microsoft pops up a little window saying \" Your batteries are now fully charged . \"\nPostdoc A: That 's great .\nProfessor C: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: I 'm thinking about scripting that for my talk , you know , put {disfmarker} put a little script in there to say \" Your batteries are low \" right when I 'm saying that .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . Yeah . No I mean , i in {disfmarker} in your case , I mean , you were joking about it , but , I mean , your case the fact that your talking about similar things at a couple of conferences , it 's not {disfmarker} these are conferences that have d really different emphases . Whereas HLT and {disfmarker} and Eurospeech , pretty {disfmarker} pretty {disfmarker} pretty similar , so I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can't see really just putting in the same thing ,\nGrad E: Are too close , yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: No , I d I don't think that paper is really {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: but {disfmarker}\nPhD D: the HLT paper is really more of a introduction - to - the - project paper , and , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah , for Eurospeech we want some results if we can get them .\nPhD D: Well , yeah , it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} probably wouldn't make sense ,\n",
      "Professor C: Or some {disfmarker} or some {disfmarker} I mean , I would see Eurospeech {disfmarker} if we have some Eurospeech papers , these will be paper p p uh , submissions .\nPhD D: but {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: These will be things that are particular things , aspects of it that we 're looking at , rather than , you know , attempt at a global paper about it .\nPhD D: Right , right .\nGrad E: Detail , yeah . Overall .\n",
      "Postdoc A: I did go through one of these meetings . I had , uh , one of the transcribers go through and tighten up the bins on one of the , uh , NSA meetings , and then I went through afterwards and double - checked it so that one is really very {disfmarker} very accurate .\nPhD D: Oh .\nPostdoc A: I men I mentioned the link . I sent {disfmarker} You know that one ?\nPhD D: Oh , so {disfmarker}\nGrad G: The {disfmarker} which one ? I 'm sorry .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Um , I 'm trying to remember {disfmarker} I don't remember the number off hand .\nGrad E: Those are all {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: It 's one of the NSA 's . I sent email before the conference , before last week .\nGrad G: Oh , OK .\nPostdoc A: Bef - What I mean is Wednesday , Thursday .\nPhD D: That might {disfmarker} might have been the one {disfmarker} one of the ones that we did .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc A: I 'm sure that that one 's accurate , I 've been through it {vocalsound} myself .\nPhD D: So that might actually be useful but they 're all non - native speakers .\nPhD F: So we could compare before and after\nGrad G: OK .\nPhD F: and see {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah . Yeah , that 's what I was gonna say . The problem with those , they 're all German .\nPhD F: oh , Darn !\nGrad G: Yeah , that 's the problem with the NSA speakers .\n",
      "PhD D: And e and e and extremely hard to follow , like word - wise ,\nGrad E: So .\nPhD D: I bet the transcri I mean , I have no idea what they 're talking about ,\nGrad G: Yeah .\nPostdoc A: I corrected it for a number of the words .\nPhD D: so ,\nPostdoc A: I 'm sure that , um , they 're {disfmarker} they 're accurate now .\nPhD D: um ,\nPhD F: Uh , actually I have to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to go .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean , this is tough for a language model probably {disfmarker} \nGrad G: Right .\nPhD D: but {disfmarker} but that might be useful just for speech .\nProfessor C: Well .\nGrad E: OK , Andreas is leaving {disfmarker} leaving the building . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: See ya .\nProfessor C: See ya . I don't think we 'll go much longer .\n",
      "Grad E: Um , oh , before you l go {disfmarker} I guess it 's alright for you to talk a little without the mike {disfmarker} I noticed you adjusting the mike a lot , did it not fit you well ? Oh .\nPostdoc A: Well I won I noticed when you turned your head , it would {disfmarker} it would tilt .\nGrad E: Maybe it wasn't just tightened enough , or {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Maybe the {disfmarker} yeah , the s thing that you have tightened @ @ ,\n",
      "PhD B: Actually if {disfmarker} if you have a larger head , that mike 's gotta go farther away which means the {disfmarker} the balance is gonna make it wanna tip down .\nPhD D: oh .\nGrad E: OK . Anyway .\nProfessor C: Yeah . OK , see ya .\nGrad E: Cuz , I 'm just thinking , you know , we were {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 've been talking about changing the mikes , uh , for a while ,\nGrad G: \nPostdoc A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: and if these aren't {disfmarker} acoustically they seem really good , but if they 're not comfortable , we have the same problems we have with these stupid things .\nPostdoc A: I think it 's com This is the first time I 've worn this , I find it very comfortable .\nGrad E: I find it very comfortable too , but , uh , it looked like Andreas was having problems , and I think Morgan was saying it {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Well , but I had it on {disfmarker} I had it on this morning and it was fine .\nPhD B: Can I see that ?\n",
      "Grad E: Oh , oh you did wear it this morning ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: OK , it 's off , so you can put it on .\nPhD B: I {disfmarker} yeah , I don't want it on , I just {disfmarker} I just want to , um , say what I think is a problem with this . If you are wearing this over your ears and you 've got it all the way out here , then the balance is gonna want to pull it this way .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD B: Where as if somebody with a smaller head has it back here ,\n",
      "Grad E: It 's more balanced .\nPhD B: right ? Yeah .\nPostdoc A: Oh !\nPhD B: Then it {disfmarker} then it falls back this way so it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So we have to\nGrad E: Well wh what it 's supposed to do is the backstrap is supposed to be under your crown , and so that should be {disfmarker} should be {disfmarker}\nPostdoc A: Ah .\nGrad E: if it 's right against your head there , which is what it 's supposed to be , that balances it so it doesn't slide up .\n",
      "PhD B: So this is supposed to be under that little protuberance .\nGrad E: Yep , right {disfmarker} right below {disfmarker} if you feel the back of your head , you feel a little lump ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad E: um , and so it 's supposed to be right under that .\nPhD B: So it 's really supposed to go more like this than like this .\nGrad E: Yes , exactly .\nPhD B: But then isn't that going to {disfmarker} Well , I guess you can control that .\n",
      "Grad E: That {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that tilts , right ? In lots and lots of different ways .\nPhD D: So I 'm not saying anything about bias towards small headsize ,\nGrad E: About heads ?\nPhD D: but does seem , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: It would be an advantage .\nPostdoc A: Well , wonder if it 's {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if he was wearing it over his hair instead of under his hair .\n",
      "Professor C: Well , we should {disfmarker} We shou we should work on compressing the heads , and {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I think probably it was {disfmarker} Yeah . It probably just wasn't tight enough to the back of his head . I mean , so the directions do talk about bending it to your size , which is not really what we want .\nPhD B: The other thing that would do it would be to hang a five pound weight off the back .\nProfessor C: Yeah\nPhD D: Right .\nProfessor C: that 's good !\nPostdoc A: What did you say ?\nPhD D: A little ,\n",
      "Grad E: wh\nProfessor C: Hang a five pound weight off the {disfmarker} off the back .\nPhD B: Hang a five pound weight off the back .\nPhD D: um ,\nGrad E: We did that {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Weight .\nGrad E: We {disfmarker} at Boeing I used {disfmarker} I was doing augmented reality so they had head - mounts on , and we {disfmarker} we had a little jury - rigged one with a welder 's helmet ,\nPhD B: Counter - balance .\n",
      "Grad E: and we had just a bag with a bunch of marbles in it {vocalsound} as a counter - balance .\nProfessor C: Or maybe this could be helpful just for evening the conversation between people . If people {disfmarker} those who talk a lot have to wear heavier weights or something , and {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah !\nProfessor C: and {disfmarker} um ,\nGrad E: Anyway .\n",
      "Professor C: um , so , uh , what was I gonna say ? Oh , yeah , I was gonna say , uh , I had these , uh , conversations with NIST folks also while I was there and {disfmarker} and , uh , um , so they {disfmarker} they have their {disfmarker} their plan for a room , uh , with , um , mikes in the middle of the table , and , uh , close - mounted mikes ,\nGrad E: Yep .\nProfessor C: and they 're talking about close - mounted and lapels , just cuz\nPhD D: And arrays ,\n",
      "Professor C: sort of {disfmarker} and the array .\nGrad E: And arrays ,\nProfessor C: Yeah , so they were {disfmarker}\nPhD D: which is the i interesting {disfmarker}\nGrad E: yep . And cameras .\nProfessor C: And yeah , like multiple {disfmarker} multiple video cameras coverin covering every {disfmarker} everybody {disfmarker} every place in the room ,\nPhD D: and video , right .\n",
      "Professor C: uh , the {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the mikes in the middle , the head - mounted mikes , the lapel mikes , the array , uh , with {disfmarker} well , there 's some discussion of fifty - nine ,\nGrad E: Fifty - nine elements .\nProfessor C: they might go down to fifty - seven Because , uh , there is , uh , some pressure from a couple people at the meeting for them to use a KEMAR head . I forget what KEMAR , uh , stands for ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: but what it is is it 's dummy head that is very specially designed ,\nGrad E: Oh , that 's right .\nProfessor C: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , so what they 're actually doing is they 're really {disfmarker} there 's really two recording systems .\nPhD D: Right .\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD D: That 's a great idea .\n",
      "Professor C: So they may not be precisely synchronous , but the but there 's two {disfmarker} two recording systems , one with , I think , twenty - four channels , and one with sixty - four channels . And the sixty - four channel one is for the array , but they 've got some empty channels there , and anyway they {disfmarker} like they 're saying they may give up a couple or something if {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for the KEMAR head if they go {disfmarker} go with that .\nGrad E: Right . Yeah , it is a good idea .\nProfessor C: So .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , h uh , J Jonathan Fiscus did say that , uh , they have lots of software for doing calibration for skew and offset between channels\nPhD D: Mm - hmm\nGrad E: and that they 've found that 's just not a big deal .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: So .\nProfessor C: Yeah , I 'm not {pause} too worried about that . I was thinking {disfmarker}\nPhD D: But they 're still planning to do like fake {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Scenario - based .\nPhD D: they have to do something like that ,\nGrad E: Y right .\n",
      "PhD D: right .\nGrad E: Their {disfmarker} their legal issues won't allow them to do otherwise .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: But it sounded like they were {pause} pretty well thought out\nPhD D: Yeah , th that 's true .\nGrad E: and they 're {disfmarker} they 're gonna be real meetings ,\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: it 's just that they 're with str with people who would not be meeting otherwise .\nPhD B: Did {disfmarker} did they give a talk on this or was this informal ?\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: So .\nPhD D: No .\nGrad E: No .\nProfessor C: No , we just had some discussions , various discussions with them .\nGrad E: It 's just informal .\nPostdoc A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah , I also sat and chatted with several of the NIST folks . They seemed like a good group .\nPhD B: What was the , um {disfmarker} the paper by , um , Lori Lamel that you mentioned ?\n",
      "Professor C: Um , yeah , we sh we should just have you {disfmarker} have you read it , but , I mea ba i i uh , we 've all got these little proceedings ,\nPostdoc A: Mmm , yeah .\nProfessor C: but , um , basically , it was about , um , uh , going to a new task where you have insufficient data and using {disfmarker} using data from something else , and adapting , and how well that works . Uh , so in {disfmarker} in fact it was pretty related to what Liz and Andreas did , uh , except that this was not with meeting stuff , it was with\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nProfessor C: uh , like I think they s didn't they start off with Broadcast News system ? And then they went to {disfmarker}\nGrad E: The - their Broadcast News was their acoustic models and then all the other tasks were much simpler .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: So they were command and control and that sort of thing .\nProfessor C: TI - digits was one of them , and , uh , Wall Street Journal .\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD B: What was their rough {disfmarker} what was their conclusion ?\nGrad E: Yeah , read Wall Street Journal . It works .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , it 's {disfmarker} it 's a good paper , I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah . Yeah , that was one of the ones that I liked .\nPhD D: Bring the {disfmarker}\nGrad E: That {disfmarker} It not only works , in some cases it was better , which I thought was pretty interesting , but that 's cuz they didn't control for parameters . So .\nProfessor C: Probably .\nGrad E: You know , the Broadcast News nets were {disfmarker} not nets ,\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "PhD B: Did they ever try going {disfmarker} going the other direction from simpler task to more complicated tasks ,\nGrad E: acoustic models {comment} were a lot more complex .\nPhD B: or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad E: n Not in that paper .\nProfessor C: That might be hard .\nGrad E: Yeah , well , one of the big problems with that is {disfmarker} is often the simpler task isn't fully {disfmarker} doesn't have all the phones in it ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: and that {disfmarker} that makes it very hard .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: But I 've done the same thing . I 've been using Broadcast News nets for digits ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: like for the spr speech proxy thing that I did ? That 's what I did .\nProfessor C: Yeah , sure .\nGrad E: So . It works .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Yeah , and they have {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} they have better adaptation than we had than that {disfmarker} that system ,\nGrad E: Yep .\nProfessor C: so they {disfmarker} um ,\nGrad E: You mean they have some .\n",
      "Professor C: yeah , we should probably what would {disfmarker} actually what we should do , uh , I haven't said anything about this , but probably the five of us should pick out a paper or two that {disfmarker} that , uh , you know , got our interest , and we should go around the room at one of the Tuesday lunch meetings and say , you know , what {disfmarker} what was good about the conference ,\nGrad E: Present . Yep . Do a trip report .\nProfessor C: yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , the summarization stuff was interesting , I mean , I don't know anything about that field , but for this proposal on meeting summarization , um , I mean , it 's sort of a far cry because they weren't working with meeting type data , but he got sort of an overview on some of the different approaches ,\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD B: Do you remember who the groups were that we 're doing ?\nPhD D: so . Well there 're {disfmarker} this was the last day ,\nGrad E: A lot of different ones .\nPostdoc A: R I think {disfmarker} Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: but , I mean , there 's {disfmarker} that 's a huge field and probably the groups there may not be representative of the field , I {disfmarker} I don't know exactly that everyone submits to this particular conference ,\nPhD B: Was {disfmarker} were there folks from BBN presenting ?\nPhD D: but yet there was , let 's see , this was on the last day , Mitre , BBN , and , um , Prager {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mitre , BBN , IBM . Uh ,\nPostdoc A: Maryland .\n",
      "PhD D: um , I wo it was {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Columbia have anything ? No .\nPhD D: no it was {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Wasn't {disfmarker} Who {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who did the order one ?\nPhD D: this was Wednesday morning . The sentence ordering one , was that Barselou , and these guys ?\nGrad E: Ugh ! {comment} I 'm just so bad at that .\nPostdoc A: Oh .\n",
      "PhD D: Anyway , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it 's in the program , I should have read it to remind myself , but that 's sort of useful and I think like when Mari and Katrin and Jeff are here it 'd be good to figure out some kinds of things that we can start doing maybe just on the transcripts cuz we already have {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Yeah , we do have word transcripts .\nPhD D: you know , yeah .\nGrad E: So .\n",
      "Postdoc A: Well , I like the idea that Adam had of {disfmarker} of , um , z maybe generating minutes based on some of these things that we have because it would be easy to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to do that just , you know , and {disfmarker} and\nPhD D: Right .\nPostdoc A: it has to be , though , someone from this group because of the technical nature of the thing .\nGrad E: Someone who actually does take notes , um , {vocalsound} I 'm very bad at note - taking .\n",
      "PhD D: But I think what 's interesting is there 's all these different evaluations , like {disfmarker} just , you know , how do you evaluate whether the summary is good or not ,\nGrad E: I always write down the wrong things .\nPostdoc A: I do take notes .\nPhD D: and that 's what 's {disfmarker} was sort of interesting to me is that there 's different ways to do it ,\nGrad E: A judge .\nPhD D: and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Was SRA one of the groups talking about summarization , no ?\nGrad E: Yep .\n",
      "PhD D: Hm - umm . No .\nPostdoc A: It was an interesting session . One of those w\nGrad E: And as I said , I like the Microsoft talk on {pause} scaling issues in , uh , word sense disambiguation ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: that was interesting .\nProfessor C: Yeah , that was an interesting discussion ,\nGrad E: The {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: uh , I\nGrad E: It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it was the only one {disfmarker} It was the only one that had any sort of real disagreement about .\n",
      "PhD D: The data issue comes up all the ti\nProfessor C: Well , I didn't have as much disagreement as I would have liked ,\nGrad E: So .\nProfessor C: but I didn't wanna {disfmarker} I wouldn I didn't wanna get into it because , uh , you know , it was the application was one I didn't know anything about ,\nGrad E: Yep .\n",
      "Professor C: uh , it just would have been , you know , me getting up to be argumentative , but {disfmarker} but , uh , I mean , the missing thi so {disfmarker} so what they were saying {disfmarker} it 's one of these things {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} you know , all you need is more data , sort of {disfmarker} But I mea i wh it {disfmarker} @ @ that 's {disfmarker} that 's dissing it , uh , improperly , I mean , it was a nice study . Uh , they were doing this {disfmarker} it wasn't word - sense disambiguation , it was {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Well , it sort of was .\nProfessor C: was it w was it word - sense ? Yes .\nGrad E: But it was {disfmarker} it was a very simple case of \" to \" versus \" too \" versus \" two \" and \" there \" , \" their \" , \" they 're \" {disfmarker}\nPhD D: And there and their and {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah , yeah . OK .\n",
      "PhD D: and that you could do better with more data , I mean , that 's clearly statistically {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: And so , what they did was they had these different kinds of learning machines , and they had different amounts of data , and so they did like , you know , eight different methods that everybody , you know , uh , argues about {disfmarker} about , \" Oh my {disfmarker} my kind of learning machine is better than your kind of learning machine . \" And , uh , they were {disfmarker} started off with a million words that they used , which was evidently a number that a lot of people doing that particular kind of task had been using . So they went up , being Microsoft , they went up to a billion . And then they had this log scale showing a {disfmarker} you know , and {disfmarker} and naturally everything gets {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Them being beep , {comment} they went off to a billion .\nProfessor C: they {disfmarker} well , it 's a big company , I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't mean it as a ne anything negative ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: but i i i\nPhD D: You mean the bigger the company the more words they use for training ?\nGrad E: Well , I think the reason they can do that , is that they assumed that text that they get off the web , like from Wall Street Journal , is correct , and edit it .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: So that 's what they used as training data . It 's just saying if it 's in this corpus it 's correct .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . But , I mean , yes . Of course there was the kind of effect that , you know , one would expect that {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} that you got better and better performance with more and more data . Um , but the {disfmarker} the real point was that the {disfmarker} the different learning machines are sort of all over the place , and {disfmarker} and by {disfmarker} by going up significantly in data you can have much bigger effect then by switching learning machines and furthermore which learning machine was on top kind of depended on where you were in this picture , so ,\n",
      "PhD B: This was my concern about the recognizer in Aurora .\nProfessor C: uh , That {disfmarker}\nPhD B: That the differences we 're seeing in the front - end is b\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Are irrelevant .\nPhD B: are irrelevant once you get a real recognizer at the back - end .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: If you add more data ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD B: You know ?\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Huh .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , could well be . So {disfmarker} so , I mean , that was {disfmarker} that was kind of , you know , it 's a good point , but the problem I had with it was that the implications out of this was that , uh , the kind of choices you make about learning machines were therefore irrelevant which is not at {disfmarker} n t as for as I know in {disfmarker} in tasks I 'm more familiar with @ @ is not at all true . What i what is {disfmarker} is true is that different learning machines have different properties , and you wanna know what those properties are . And someone else sort of implied that well we s you know , a all the study of learning machine we still don't know what those properties are . We don't know them perfectly , but we know that some kinds use more memory and {disfmarker} and some other kinds use more computation and some are {disfmarker} are hav have limited kind of discrimination , but are just easy to use , and others are {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: But doesn't their conclusion just sort of {disfmarker} you could have guessed that before they even started ? Because if you assume that these learning things get better and better and better ,\nProfessor C: You would guess {disfmarker}\nPhD B: then as you approach {disfmarker} there 's a point where you can't get any better , right ? You get everything right .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: It 's just no {disfmarker}\nGrad E: But {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So they 're all approaching .\n",
      "Grad E: No , but there was still a spread . They weren't all up They weren't converging .\nPhD B: But what I 'm saying is that th they have to , as they all get better , they have to get closer together .\nProfessor C: It w\nGrad E: They were all still spread . But they {disfmarker} Right , right . Sure . But they hadn't even come close to that point . All the tasks were still improving when they hit a billion .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD B: But they 're all going the same way , right ? So you have to get closer .\n",
      "Professor C: Eventually . O one would\nGrad E: But they didn't get closer .\nPhD B: Oh they didn't ?\nProfessor C: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad E: They just switched position .\nProfessor C: well that 's getting cl I mean , yeah , the spread was still pretty wide that 's th that 's true ,\nGrad E: Yep .\n",
      "Professor C: but {disfmarker} but , uh , I think it would be irntu intu intuition that this would be the case , but , uh , to really see it and to have the intuition is quite different , I mean , I think somebody w w let 's see who was talking about earlier that the effect of having a lot more data is quite different in Switchboard than it is in {disfmarker} in Broadcast News ,\nPhD D: Well it 's different for different tasks .\nGrad E: Yeah . It was Liz . Yeah .\nProfessor C: yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: So it depends a lot on whether , you know , it {disfmarker} disambiguation is exactly the case where more data is better , right ? You 're {disfmarker} you 're {disfmarker} you can assume similar distributions ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPhD D: but if you wanted to do disambiguation on a different type of , uh , test data then your training data , then that extra data wouldn't generalize ,\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD D: so .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: But , I think one of their p They {disfmarker} they had a couple points . w {comment} Uh , I think one of them was that \" Well , maybe simpler algorithms and more data are {disfmarker} is better \" . Less memory , faster operation , simpler . Right ? Because their simplest , most brain - dead algorithm did pretty darn well\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: when you got {disfmarker} gave it a lot more data . And then also they were saying , \" Well , m You have access to a lot more data . Why are you sticking with a million words ? \" I mean , their point was that this million - word corpus that everyone uses is apparently ten or fifteen years old . And everyone is still using it , so .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . But anyway , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's just the {disfmarker} the i it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not really the conclusion they came to so much , as the conclusion that some of the , uh , uh , commenters in the crowd {vocalsound} came up with\nGrad E: But we could talk about this stuff , I think this would be fun to do .  Right .\n",
      "Professor C: that , uh , you know , this therefore is further evidence that , you know , more data is really all you should care about , and that I thought was just kind of going too far the other way ,\nGrad E: Machine - learning .\n",
      "Professor C: and {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} the , uh , one {disfmarker} one person ga g g got up and made a {disfmarker} a brief defense , uh , but it was a different kind of grounds , it was that {disfmarker} that , uh , i w the reason people were not using so much data before was not because they were stupid or didn't realize data was important , but in fact th they didn't have it available . Um , but the other point to make a again is that , uh , machine learning still does matter , but it {disfmarker} it matters more in some situations than in others , and it {disfmarker} and also there 's {disfmarker} there 's not just mattering or not mattering , but there 's mattering in different ways . I mean , you might be in some situation where you care how much memory you 're using , or you care , you know , what recall time is ,\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nProfessor C: or you care , you know , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Or you only have a million words {pause} for your {disfmarker} some new task .\nProfessor C: Yeah , or {disfmarker} or , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Or done another language , or {disfmarker} I mean , you {disfmarker} so there 's papers on portability and rapid prototyping and blah - blah - blah ,\nGrad E: Yep .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: and then there 's people saying , \" Oh , just add more data . \"\nProfessor C: And there 's cost !\nPhD D: So , these are like two different religions , basically .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Cost .\nProfessor C: There 's just plain cost ,\nGrad E: Yeah . That 's a big one .\n",
      "Professor C: you know , so {disfmarker} so these , I mean th the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the speech side , the thing that @ @ always occurs to me is that if you {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} one person has a system that requires ten thousand hours to train on , and the other only requires a hundred , and they both do about the same because the hundred hour one was smarter , that 's {disfmarker} that 's gonna be better . because people , I mean , there isn't gonna be just one system that people train on\n",
      "Grad E: Yep .\nProfessor C: and then that 's it for the r for all of time . I mean , people are gonna be doing other different things , and so it {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these things matters {disfmarker} matter .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , that 's it .\nGrad E: Yeah , so that 's one of the slides they put up .\nPostdoc A: So , I mean , this was a very provocative slide . She put this up , and it was like this is {disfmarker} this p people kept saying , \" Can I see that slide again ? \"\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah ,\nPostdoc A: and then they 'd make a comment , and one person said , well - known person said , um , you know , \" Before you dismiss forty - five years including my work {disfmarker} \"\nPhD D: yeah .\nGrad E: Forty - five years of research .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: But th you know , the same thing has happened in computational linguistics , right ? You look at the ACL papers coming out , and now there 's sort of a turn back towards , OK we 've learned statistic {disfmarker} you know , we 're basically getting what we expect out of some statistical methods , and , you know , the there 's arguments on both sides ,\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD D: so {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I think the matters is the thing that {disfmarker} that was misleading .\nPostdoc A: That was very offending , very offending .\nPhD D: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Is that {disfmarker} all {disfmarker} all of them are based on all the others , right ? Just , you {disfmarker} you can't say {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Maybe they should have said \" focus \" or something .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah . I mean , so . {disfmarker} And I 'm saying the same thing happened with speech recognition , right ? For a long time people were hand - c coding linguistic rules and then they discovered machine - learning worked better . And now they 're throwing more and more data and worrying {disfmarker} perhaps worrying less and less about , uh , the exact details of the algorithms .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} and then you hit this {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Except when they have a Eurospeech paper .\nPostdoc A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Anyway .\n",
      "Professor C: Anyway , tea is {disfmarker} tea is , uh , starting .\nGrad E: Shall we read some digits ? Are we gonna do one at a time ? Or should we read them all agai at once again .\nProfessor C: Let 's do it all at once .\nPostdoc A: Yeah , that 's good .\nProfessor C: We {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} let 's try that again .\nPhD D: Yes ! So , and maybe we won't laugh this time also .\n"
    ],
    "length": 24400,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 65,
    "question": "What were the main topics?",
    "answer": "The main topics of the agenda were a paper submitted to Eurospeech and the organising of the recording transcriptions to be done by IBM. The results presented in the former show a significant percentage of overlapping speech even without counting in backchanneling. Regarding the transcriptions to be carried out by IBM, the discussion mainly concerned the format of the recordings that should be sent to them. Suggestions included sending only the channels with the dominant speakers for transcription, but it was finally agreed on sending the original files with minimal modifications, as there will be extensive in-house post-processing.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad A: OK , we 're recording .\nProfessor F: We can say the word \" zero \" all we want ,\nPhD G: I 'm doing some\nProfessor F: but just {disfmarker}\nPhD G: square brackets , coffee sipping , square brackets .\nPhD B: That 's not allowed , I think .\nPostdoc C: Cur - curly brackets .\nGrad E: Is that voiced or unvoiced ?\nGrad A: Curly brackets .\nPhD B: Curly brackets .\nProfessor F: Curly brackets .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD B: Oops .\nProfessor F: Well , correction for transcribers .\n",
      "PhD G: Mmm ! {comment} {vocalsound} Gar - darn !\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Channel two .\nGrad A: Do we use square brackets for anything ?\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Uh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: These poor transcribers .\nProfessor F: u\nPostdoc C: Not ri not right now . I mean {disfmarker} No .\nPhD D: There 's gonna be some zeros from this morning 's meeting because I noticed that\nProfessor F: u\n",
      "PhD D: Barry , I think maybe you turned your mike off before the digits were {disfmarker} Oh , was it during digits ? Oh , so it doesn't matter .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad A: It 's still not a good idea .\nPhD B: So it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not that bad if it 's at the end , but it 's {disfmarker} in the beginning , it 's {pause} bad .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , you wanna {disfmarker} you wanna keep them on so you get {pause} good noise {disfmarker} noise floors , through the whole meeting .\nPostdoc C: That 's interesting . Hmm .\nProfessor F: Uh , I probably just should have left it on . Yeah I did have to run , but {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Is there any way to change that in the software ?\nGrad A: Change what in the software ?\n",
      "Grad E: Where like you just don't {disfmarker} like if you {disfmarker} if it starts catching zeros , like in the driver or something {disfmarker} in the card , or somewhere in the hardware {disfmarker} Where if you start seeing zeros on w across one channel , you just add some {vocalsound} random , @ @ {comment} noise floor {disfmarker} like a small noise floor .\nGrad A: I mean certainly we could do that , but I don't think that 's a good idea . We can do that in post - processing if {disfmarker} if the application needs it .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Manual post - processing .\nProfessor F: Well , I {disfmarker} u I actually don't know what the default {comment} is anymore as to how we 're using the {disfmarker} the front - end stuff but {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} when we use the ICSI front - end ,\nGrad A: As an argument .\n",
      "Professor F: but um , there is an {disfmarker} there is an o an option in {disfmarker} in RASTA , which , um , {vocalsound} in when I first put it in , uh , back in the days when I actually wrote things , uh , {vocalsound} I {pause} did actually put in a random bit or so that was in it ,\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor F: but {vocalsound} then I realized that putting in a random bit was equivalent to adding uh {disfmarker} adding flat spectrum ,\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "Professor F: and it was a lot faster to just add a constant to the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to the spectrum . So then I just started doing that\nGrad E: Mmm . OK .\nProfessor F: instead of calling \" rand \" {comment} or something ,\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor F: so . So it d it does that . Gee ! Here we all are !\nGrad A: Uh , so the only agenda items were Jane {disfmarker} was Jane wanted to talk about some of the IBM transcription process .\nProfessor F: There 's an agenda ?\n",
      "Grad A: I sort of {vocalsound} condensed the three things you said into that . And then just {disfmarker} I only have like , this afternoon and maybe tomorrow morning to get anything done before I go to Japan for ten days . So if there 's anything that n absolutely , desperately needs to be done , you should let me know now .\nProfessor F: Uh , and you just sent off a Eurospeech paper , so .\nPhD G: Right . I hope they accept it .\nProfessor F: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: I mean , I {disfmarker} both actu as {disfmarker} as a submission and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you know , as a paper . Um {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Well yeah , you sent it in {pause} late .\nProfessor F: Yeah , I guess you {disfmarker} first you have to do the first one ,\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: and then {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD G: We actually exceeded the delayed deadline by o another day , so .\nPhD B: Oops .\n",
      "Professor F: Oh they {disfmarker} they had some extension that they announced or something ?\nPhD G: Well yeah . Liz had sent them a note saying \" could we please {pause} have another \" {comment} {pause} I don't know , \" three days \" or something , and they said yes .\nPhD D: And then she said \" Did I say three ?\nGrad A: Oh ,\nPhD D: I meant four . \"\nGrad A: that was the other thing uh ,\nPhD G: But u\n",
      "Grad A: uh , Dave Gelbart sent me email , I think he sent it to you too , {comment} that um , there 's a special topic , section in si in Eurospeech on new , corp corpors corpora . And it 's not due until like May fifteenth .\nProfessor F: Oh this isn't the Aurora one ?\nGrad A: No .\nProfessor F: It 's another one ?\nGrad A: It 's a different one .\nPhD B: No it 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad E: Huh !\nGrad A: And uh ,\nProfessor F: Oh !\n",
      "PhD B: I got this mail from {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I s forwarded it to Jane as I thought being the most relevant person . Um {disfmarker} So , I thought it was highly relevant {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Yeah I 'm {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: That 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: have you {disfmarker} did you look at the URL ?\nPostdoc C: Yeah . I think so too . Um , I haven't gotten over to there yet ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: but what {disfmarker} our discussion yesterday , I really {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wanna submit one .\nPhD B: Was this {pause} SmartKom message ? I think {pause} Christoph Draxler sent this ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah . And , you offered to {disfmarker} to join me , if you want me to .\nGrad A: I 'll help ,\nPhD B: yeah .\nGrad A: but obviously I can't , really do , most of it ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Yeah , that 's right .\n",
      "PhD G: I think several people {disfmarker} sent this ,\nGrad A: so .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Uh - huh .\nPhD G: yeah .\nGrad A: But any {disfmarker} any help you need I can certainly provide .\nProfessor F: Well ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: that 's {disfmarker} that 's a great idea .\n",
      "PhD G: Well {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there were some interesting results in this paper , though . For instance that Morgan {disfmarker} uh , accounted for fifty - six percent of the Robustness meetings in terms of number of words .\nGrad A: Wow .\nPostdoc C: In {disfmarker} in terms of what ? In term\nPhD G: Number of words .\nPostdoc C: One ? Wow ! OK .\nGrad A: That 's just cuz he talks really fast .\nPostdoc C: Do you mean ,\nProfessor F: n No .\nGrad A: I know\nPhD B: Oh . Short words .\n",
      "Postdoc C: because {disfmarker} is it partly , eh , c correctly identified words ? Or is it {disfmarker} or just overall volume ?\nPhD G: No . Well , according to the transcripts .\nGrad A: But re well regardless . I think it 's {disfmarker} he 's {disfmarker} he 's in all of them ,\nPostdoc C: Oh . OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: I mean , we didn't mention Morgan by name\nGrad A: and he talks a lot .\nPhD G: we just {disfmarker}\nGrad A: One participant .\n",
      "Professor F: Well {disfmarker} we have now , but {disfmarker}\nPhD G: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} something about {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Did you identify him as a senior {pause} member ?\nPhD G: No , we as identify him as the person dominating the conversation .\nProfessor F: Well .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: OK .\nProfessor F: I mean I get these AARP things , but I 'm not se really senior yet , but {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Right\nProfessor F: Um ,\n",
      "PhD G: Hmm .\nProfessor F: but uh , other than that delightful result , what was the rest of the paper about ?\nPhD G: Um , well it was about {disfmarker} it had three sections\nProfessor F: You sent it to me but I haven't seen it yet .\nPhD G: uh {disfmarker} three kinds of uh results , if you will . Uh , the one was that the {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the amount of overlap\nGrad A: The good , the bad , and the ugly .\n",
      "PhD G: um , s in terms of {disfmarker} in terms of number of words and also we computed something called a \" spurt \" , which is essentially a stretch of speech with uh , no pauses exceeding five hundred milliseconds . Um , and we computed how many overlapped i uh spurts there were and how many overlapped words there were . {vocalsound} Um , for four different {pause} corpora , the Meeting Recorder meetings , the Robustness meetings Switchboard and CallHome , and , found {disfmarker} and sort of compared the numbers . Um , and found that the , uh , you know , as you might expect the Meeting Recorder {pause} meetings had the most overlap uh , but next were Switchboard and CallHome , which both had roughly the same , almost identical in fact , and the Robustness meetings were {disfmarker} had the least , so {disfmarker} One sort of unexpected result there is that uh two - party telephone conversations have {vocalsound} about the same amount of overlap ,\n",
      "Grad A: I 'm surprised .\nPhD G: sort of in gen you know {disfmarker} order of magnitude - wise as , uh {disfmarker} as face - to - face meetings with multiple {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I have {disfmarker} I had better start changing all my slides !\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah . Also , I {disfmarker} in the Levinson , the pragmatics book , {comment} in you know , uh , textbook , {vocalsound} there 's {disfmarker} I found this great quote where he says {vocalsound} you know {disfmarker} you know , how people {disfmarker} it talks about how uh {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how people are so good at turn taking ,\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: and {vocalsound} so {disfmarker} they 're so good that {vocalsound} generally , u the overlapped speech does not {disfmarker} is less than five percent .\nPostdoc C: Oh , that 's interesting . Yeah .\nPhD G: So , this is way more than five percent .\nGrad E: Did he mean face {disfmarker} like face - to - face ? Or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD G: Well , in real conversations ,\nGrad E: Hmm .\nPhD G: everyday conversations .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: It 's s what these conversation analysts have been studying for years and years there .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: But {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Well , of course , no , it doesn't necessarily go against what he said , cuz he said \" generally speaking \" . In order to {disfmarker} to go against that kind of a claim you 'd have to big canvassing .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nPhD B: And in f\nPhD G: Well , he {disfmarker} he made a claim {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad A: \nPhD B: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah , we {disfmarker} we have pretty limited sample here .\nPhD B: Five percent of time or five percent of what ?\nGrad A: Yeah , I was gonna ask that too .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Exactly .\nPhD G: Well it 's time .\nPhD B: Yeah , so {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: It 's {disfmarker} i it 's not against his conclusion ,\n",
      "PhD G: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but still {disfmarker} but still {disfmarker} u\nPostdoc C: it just says that it 's a bi bell curve , and that , {vocalsound} you have something that has a nice range , in your sampling .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah . So there are slight {disfmarker} There are differences in how you measure it , but still it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} You know , the difference between um {disfmarker} between that number and what we have in meetings , which is more like , {vocalsound} you know , close to {disfmarker} in meetings like these , uh {disfmarker} you know , close to twenty percent .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: But what was it like , say , in the Robustness meeting , for instance ?\n",
      "PhD G: That {disfmarker}\nGrad A: But {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Robustness meeting ? It was {vocalsound} about half of the r So , {vocalsound} in terms of number of words , it 's like seventeen or eigh eighteen percent for the Meeting Recorder meetings and {vocalsound} about half that for , {vocalsound} uh , the Robustness .\nProfessor F: Maybe ten percent ?\n",
      "Grad A: But I don't know if that 's really a fair way of comparing between , multi - party , conversations and two - party conversations . Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know .\nPhD B: Then {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} then you have to {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean that 's just something {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah , I just wonder if you have to normalize by the numbers of speakers or something .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: Then {disfmarker} Yeah , then normalize by {disfmarker} by something like that ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah , that 's a good point .\nPhD G: Well , we didn't get to look at that ,\nPhD B: yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD G: but this obvious thing to see if {disfmarker} if there 's a dependence on the number of uh {disfmarker} participants .\nPostdoc C: Good idea .\n",
      "Grad A: I mean {disfmarker} I bet there 's a weak dependence . I 'm sure it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a real strong one .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad A: Right ? Because you\nPhD D: Cuz not everybody talks .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD G: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: You have a lot of {disfmarker} a lot of two - party , subsets within the meeting .\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad A: Well regardless {disfmarker} it 's an interesting result regardless .\nPhD G: So {disfmarker} Right .\nPostdoc C: Yes , that 's right .\nPhD G: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and then {disfmarker} and we also d computed this both with and without backchannels ,\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: so you might think that backchannels have a special status because they 're essentially just {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Uh - huh . So , did {disfmarker} we all said \" uh - huh \" and nodded at the same time ,\nPhD G: R right .\nGrad A: so .\nPhD G: But , even if you take out all the backchannels {disfmarker} so basically you treat backchannels l as nonspeech , as pauses ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: you still have significant overlap . You know , it goes down from maybe {disfmarker} For Switchboard it goes down from {disfmarker} I don't know {disfmarker} f um {disfmarker} {comment} I don't know {disfmarker} f fourteen percent of the words to maybe {vocalsound} uh I don't know , eleven percent or something {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a dramatic change ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: so it 's {disfmarker} Anyway , so it 's uh {disfmarker} That was {disfmarker} that was one set of {pause} results , and then the second one was just basically the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the stuff we had in the {disfmarker} in the HLT paper on how overlaps effect the {pause} recognition performance .\nPostdoc C: Hmm .\nGrad A: Nope . Right .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: And we rescored things um , a little bit more carefully . We also fixed the transcripts in {disfmarker} in numerous ways . Uh , but mostly we added one {disfmarker} one number , which was what if you {pause} uh , basically score ignoring all {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the conjecture from the HLT results was that {vocalsound} most of the added recognition error is from insertions {vocalsound} due to background speech . So , we scored {vocalsound} all the recognition results , {vocalsound} uh , in such a way that the uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Oh by the way , who 's on channel four ? You 're getting a lot of breath .\nPhD B: Yeah . I j was just wondering .\nGrad E: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad E: That 's me .\nPhD G: uh , well Don 's been working hard .\nGrad E: That 's right .\n",
      "PhD G: OK , so {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so if you have the foreground speaker speaking here , and then there 's some background speech , may be overlapping it somehow , um , and this is the time bin that we used , then of course you 're gonna get insertion errors here and here .\nGrad A: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: Right ? So we scored everything , and I must say the NIST scoring tools are pretty nice for this , where you just basically ignore everything outside of the , {vocalsound} uh , region that was deemed to be foreground speech . And where that was we had to use the t forced alignment , uh , results from s for {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} That 's somewhat {disfmarker} that 's somewhat subject to error , but still we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh , Don did some ha hand - checking and {disfmarker} and we think that {disfmarker} based on that , we think that the results are you know , valid , although of course , some error is gonna be in there . But basically what we found is after we take out these regions {disfmarker} so we only score the regions that were certified as foreground speech , {comment} {vocalsound} the recognition error went down to almost {vocalsound} uh , the {pause} level of the non - overlapped {pause} speech . So that means that {vocalsound} even if you do have background speech , if you can somehow separate out or find where it is , {vocalsound} uh , the recognizer does a good job ,\n",
      "Grad A: That 's great .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD G: even though there is this back\nGrad A: Yeah , I guess that doesn't surprise me , because , with the close - talking mikes , the {disfmarker} the signal will be so much stronger .\nPhD G: Right . Right .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm . Um ,\nGrad A: What {disfmarker} what sort of normalization do you do ?\n",
      "PhD G: so {disfmarker} Uh , well , we just {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} we do {disfmarker} u you know , vit\nGrad A: I mean in you recognizer , in the SRI recognizer .\nPhD G: Well , we do uh , VTL {disfmarker} {vocalsound} vocal tract length normalization , w and we uh {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we uh , {vocalsound} make all the features have zero mean and unit variance .\nGrad A: Over an entire utterance ?\nProfessor F: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Or windowed ?\nPhD G: Over {disfmarker} over the entire c over the entire channel .\nPhD B: Don't {pause} train {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Over the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Hmm .\nPhD G: but you know . Um , now we didn't re - align the recognizer for this . We just took the old {disfmarker} So this is actually a sub - optimal way of doing it ,\nGrad A: Right .\nProfessor F: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: right ? So we took the old recognition output and we just scored it differently . So the recognizer didn't have the benefit of knowing where the foreground speech {disfmarker} a start\nProfessor F: Were you including the {disfmarker} the lapel {pause} in this ?\nPhD G: Yes .\nProfessor F: And did the {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} did the la did the {disfmarker} the problems with the lapel go away also ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Um , it {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor F: fray for {disfmarker} for insertions ?\n",
      "PhD G: It u not per {disfmarker} I mean , not completely , but yes ,\nProfessor F: Less so .\nPhD G: dramatically . So we have to um {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: I mean , you still {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Well I should bring the {disfmarker} should bring the table with results . Maybe we can look at it {pause} Monday .\nProfessor F: I would presume that you still would have somewhat higher error with the lapel for insertions than {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yes . It 's {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yes . Yeah .\nProfessor F: Cuz again , looking forward to the non - close miked case , I think that we s still {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: I 'm not looking forward to it .\nProfessor F: i it 's the high signal - to - noise ratio\nPhD G: Right .\nProfessor F: here that {disfmarker} that helps you .\n",
      "PhD G: u s Right . So {disfmarker} so that was number {disfmarker} that was the second set of {disfmarker} uh , the second section . And then , {vocalsound} the third thing was , we looked at , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , what we call \" interrupts \" , although that 's {disfmarker} that may be {vocalsound} a misnomer , but basically {vocalsound} we looked at cases where {disfmarker} Uh , so we {disfmarker} we used the punctuation from the original transcripts and we inferred the beginnings and ends of sentences . So , you know {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc C: Di - did you use upper - lower case also , or not ?\nPhD G: Um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: U upper lower case or no ?\nPhD G: Hmm ?\nPostdoc C: OK .\nPhD G: No , we only used , you know , uh periods , uh , question marks and {pause} exclamation . And we know that there 's th that 's not a very g I mean , we miss a lot of them ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah . That 's OK but {disfmarker}\nPhD G: but {disfmarker} but it 's f i i\n",
      "Postdoc C: Comma also or not ?\nPhD G: No commas . No . And then {vocalsound} we looked at locations where , uh , if you have overlapping speech and someone else starts a sentence , you know , where do these {disfmarker} where do other people start their {vocalsound} turns {disfmarker} not turns really , but you know , sentences ,\nPhD B: Ah .\n",
      "PhD G: um {disfmarker} So we only looked at cases where there was a foreground speaker and then at the to at the {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the foreground speaker started into their sentence and then someone else started later .\nPhD B: Somewhere in between the start and the end ?\nPhD G: OK ? And so what {disfmarker}\nPhD B: OK .\nPhD G: Sorry ?\nPhD B: Somewhere in between the start and the end of the foreground ?\nPhD G: Yes . Uh , so that such that there was overlap between the two sentences .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: So , the {disfmarker} the question was how can we {disfmarker} what can we say about the places where the second or {disfmarker} or actually , several second speakers , {vocalsound} um {pause} start their {pause} \" interrupts \" , as we call them .\nPhD D: Three words from the end .\nGrad A: At pause boundaries .\nPhD G: w And we looked at this in terms of um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: On T - closures , only .\n",
      "PhD G: So {disfmarker} so we had {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we had um u to {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for the purposes of this analysis , we tagged the word sequences , and {disfmarker} and we time - aligned them . Um , and we considered it interrupt {disfmarker} if it occurred in the middle of a word , we basically {disfmarker} you know , considered that to be a interrupt as if it were at {disfmarker} at the beginning of the word . So that , {vocalsound} if any part of the word was overlapped , it was considered an interrupted {pause} word .\n",
      "Professor F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: And then we looked at the {disfmarker} the locatio the , {vocalsound} um , you know , the features that {disfmarker} the tags because we had tagged these word strings , {comment} {vocalsound} um , that {disfmarker} that occurred right before these {disfmarker} these uh , interrupt locations .\nPhD B: Tag by uh\n",
      "PhD G: And the tags we looked at are {vocalsound} the spurt tag , which basically says {disfmarker} or actually {disfmarker} Sorry . End of spurt . So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} whether there was a pause essentially here , because spurts are a {disfmarker} defined as being you know , five hundred milliseconds or longer pauses , and then we had things like discourse markers , uh , backchannels , uh , disfluencies . um , uh , filled pauses {disfmarker} So disfluen the D 's are for , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} the interruption points of a disfluency , so , where you hesitate , or where you start the repair there . Uh , what else do we had . Uh , repeated {disfmarker} you know , repeated words is another of that kind of disfluencies and so forth . So we had both the beginnings and ends of these {disfmarker} uh so , the end of a filled pause and the end of a discourse marker . And we just eyeballed {disfmarker} I mean {vocalsound} we didn't really hand - tag all of these things . We just {pause} looked at the distribution of words , and so every {vocalsound} \" so yeah \" , and \" OK \" , uh , and \" uh - huh \" were {disfmarker} were the {disfmarker} were deemed to be backchannels and {vocalsound} \" wow \" and \" so \" and {vocalsound} uh \" right \" , uh were um {disfmarker} {pause} Not \" right \" . \" Right \" is a backchannel . But so , we sort of {disfmarker} just based on the lexical {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , identity of the words , we {disfmarker} we tagged them as one of these things . And of course the d the interruption points we got from the original transcripts . So , and then we looked at the disti so we looked at the {pause} distribution of these different kinds of tags , overall uh , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and particularly at the interruption points . And uh , we found that there is a marked difference so that for instance after {disfmarker} so at the end after a discourse marker or after backchannel or after filled pause , you 're much more likely to be interrupted {vocalsound} than before . OK ? And also of course after spurt ends , which means basically in p inside pauses . So pauses are always an opportunity for {disfmarker} So we have this little histogram which shows these distributions and , {vocalsound} um ,\n",
      "PhD D: I wonder {disfmarker}\nPhD G: you know , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not {disfmarker} No big surprises , but it is {pause} sort of interesting from {disfmarker}\nGrad A: It 's nice to actually measure it though .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD D: I wonder about the cause and effect there . In other words uh {pause} if you weren't going to pause you {disfmarker} you will because you 're g being interrupted .\nPhD G: Well we 're ne\n",
      "PhD D: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Right . There 's no statement about cause and effect .\nPhD D: Yeah , right . No , no , no .\nPhD G: This is just a statistical correlation ,\nPhD D: Right , I {disfmarker} I see . Yeah .\nPhD G: yeah .\nProfessor F: But he {disfmarker} yeah , he 's {disfmarker} he 's right , y I mean maybe you weren't intending to pause at all , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} You were intending to stop for fifty - seven milliseconds ,\n",
      "PhD G: Right .\nProfessor F: but then Chuck came in\nPhD G: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor F: and so you {vocalsound} paused for a second\nPhD G: Right . Anyway . {comment} So ,\nProfessor F: or more .\nPhD G: uh , and that was basically it . And {disfmarker} and we {disfmarker} so we wrote this and then , {vocalsound} we found we were at six pages , and then we started {vocalsound} cutting furiously\nPhD B: Oops .\n",
      "PhD G: and {vocalsound} threw out half of the {vocalsound} material again , and uh played with the LaTeX stuff and {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Made the font smaller and the narrows longer .\nPhD G: uh , and {disfmarker} until it fi\nPhD B: Font smaller , yeah .\nPhD G: No , no . W well , d you couldn't really make everything smaller\nPhD B: Put the abstract end .\nPhD G: but we s we put {disfmarker} Oh , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Took out white space .\nPhD G: you know the {disfmarker} the gap between the two columns is like ten millimeters ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD G: so I d shrunk it to eight millimeters and that helped some . And stuff like that .\nPhD D: Wasn't there {disfmarker} wasn't there some result , Andreas {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah {disfmarker}\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I thought maybe Liz presented this at some conference a while ago about {vocalsound} uh , backchannels\n",
      "PhD G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: uh , and that they tend to happen when uh {pause} the pitch drops . You know you get a falling pitch . And so that 's when people tend to backchannel .\nPhD G: Yeah . Well {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh - i i do you rem\nPhD G: y We didn't talk about , uh , prosodic , uh , properties at all ,\nPhD D: Right . Right . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: although that 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I take it that 's something that uh Don will {disfmarker} will look at\nGrad E: Yeah , we 're gonna be looking at that .\nPhD G: now that we have the data and we have the alignment , so . This is purely based on you know the words\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: I have a reference for that though . Uh - huh .\nPhD D: Oh you do .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD D: So am I recalling correctly ?\n",
      "PhD G: Anyway , so .\nPostdoc C: Well , I didn't know about Liz 's finding on that ,\nPhD D: About {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: but I know of another paper that talks about something\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc C: that {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Hmm .\nGrad E: I 'd like to see that reference too .\nPostdoc C: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: It made me think about a cool little device that could be built to uh {disfmarker} to handle those people that call you on the phone and just like to talk and talk and talk . And you just have this little detector that listens for these {vocalsound} drops in pitch and gives them the backchannel . And so then you {vocalsound} hook that to the phone and go off\nGrad A: Yeah . Uh - huh .\nPhD D: and do the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} do whatever you r wanna do ,\nPhD G: Oh yeah . Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: while that thing keeps them busy .\nPhD G: There 's actually {disfmarker} uh there 's this a former student of here from Berkeley , Nigel {disfmarker} Nigel Ward .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . Sure .\nPhD G: Do you know him ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD G: He did a system uh , in {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he lives in Japan now , and he did this backchanneling , automatic backchanneling system .\nProfessor F: Right .\nPhD G: It 's a very {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oh !\n",
      "PhD G: So , exactly what you describe ,\nPhD D: Huh .\nPhD G: but for Japanese . And it 's apparently {disfmarker} for Japa - in Japanese it 's really important that you backchannel . It 's really impolite if you don't , and {disfmarker} So .\nProfessor F: Huh . Actually for a lot of these people I think you could just sort of backchannel continuously and it would {pause} pretty much be fine .\nPhD D: It wouldn't matter ? Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah . That 's w That 's what I do .\nPhD D: Random intervals .\n",
      "Grad A: There was {disfmarker} there was of course a Monty Python sketch with that . Where the barber who was afraid of scissors was playing a {disfmarker} a tape of clipping sounds , and saying \" uh - huh \" , \" yeah \" , \" how about them sports teams ? \"\nPhD G: Anyway . So the paper 's on - line and y I {disfmarker} I think I uh {disfmarker} I CC ' ed a message to Meeting Recorder with the URL so you can get it .\nGrad A: Yep .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad A: Printed it out , haven't read it yet .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Um , uh one more thing . So I {disfmarker} I 'm actually {disfmarker} {vocalsound} about to send Brian Kingbury an email saying where he can find the {disfmarker} the s the m the material he wanted for the s for the speech recognition experiment , so {disfmarker} but I haven't sent it out yet because actually my desktop locked up , like I can't type anything . Uh b so if there 's any suggestions you have for that I was just gonna send him the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Is it the same directory that you had suggested ?\nPhD G: I made a directory . I called it um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: He still has his Unix account here , you know .\nPhD G: Well this isn't {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD G: He does ?\nPostdoc C: And he {disfmarker} and he 's {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yeah but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but he has to {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: I 'd hafta add him to Meeting Recorder , I guess ,\n",
      "PhD G: he prefe he said he would prefer FTP\nPostdoc C: but {disfmarker} OK .\nPhD G: and also , um , the other person that wants it {disfmarker} There is one person at SRI who wants to look at the {vocalsound} um , you know , the uh {disfmarker} the data we have so far ,\nPostdoc C: OK .\n",
      "PhD G: and so I figured that FTP is the best {pause} approach . So what I did is I um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} @ @ {comment} I made a n new directory after Chuck said that would c that was gonna be a good thing . Uh , so it 's \" FTP {vocalsound} {pause} pub\nGrad A: Pub real .\nPhD G: real \" {disfmarker} Exactly . MTGC {disfmarker} What is it again ? CR {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Ask Dan Ellis .\n",
      "Professor F: u R D {disfmarker} RDR , yeah .\nPhD G: Or {disfmarker} Yeah . Right ? The same {disfmarker} the same as the mailing list ,\nProfessor F: Yeah ,\nPhD G: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: the {disfmarker} {pause} No vowels .\nPhD G: Yeah . Um ,\nProfessor F: Yeah\n",
      "PhD G: and then under there {disfmarker} Um actually {disfmarker} Oh and this directory , {vocalsound} is not readable . It 's only uh , accessible . So , {vocalsound} in other words , to access anything under there , you have to {vocalsound} be told what the name is .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD G: So that 's sort of a g {vocalsound} quick and dirty way of doing access control .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: So {disfmarker} uh , and the directory for this I call it I \" ASR zero point one \" because it 's sort of meant for recognition .\nProfessor F: So anyone who hears this meeting now knows the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Beta ?\nPhD G: And then {disfmarker} then in there I have a file that lists all the other {vocalsound} files , so that someone can get that file and then know the file names and therefore download them . If you don't know the file names you can't {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Is that a dash or a dot in there ?\n",
      "PhD G: I mean you can {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Don't {disfmarker} don't {disfmarker} don't say .\n",
      "PhD G: Dash . Anyway . So all I {disfmarker} all I was gonna do there was stick the {disfmarker} the transcripts after we {disfmarker} the way that we munged them for scoring , because that 's what he cares about , and {disfmarker} um , and also {disfmarker} and then the {disfmarker} the {pause} waveforms that Don segmented . I mean , just basically tar them all up f I mean {disfmarker} w for each meeting I tar them all into one tar file and G - zip them and stick them there .\n",
      "Grad A: I uh , put digits in my own home directory {disfmarker} home FTP directory ,\nPhD G: And so .\nGrad A: but I 'll probably move them there as well .\nPhD G: Oh , OK .\nPhD D: So we could point Mari to this also for her {vocalsound} March O - one request ?\nPhD G: OK . Yeah . March O - one .\nPhD D: Or {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Oh !\nPhD D: You n Remember she was {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Oh she wanted that also ?\n",
      "PhD D: Well she was saying that it would be nice if we had {disfmarker} they had a {disfmarker} Or was she talking {disfmarker} Yeah . She was saying it would be nice if they had eh {pause} the same set , so that when they did experiments they could compare .\nPhD G: Right , but they don't have a recognizer even .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: Um {disfmarker} I\nPhD G: But yeah , we can send {disfmarker} I can CC Mari on this so that she knows {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . So , for the thing that {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: That 's good .\nPhD D: We need to give Brian the beeps file ,\nPhD G: Right .\nPhD D: so I was gonna probably put it {disfmarker}\nGrad A: We can put it in the same place . Just put in another directory .\nPhD D: Yeah , it I 'll make another directory .\nPhD G: Well , make ano make another directory .\nPhD D: Yeah . Exactly .\nPhD G: You don't n m\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: And , Andreas , um , sampled ?\nPhD G: Yeah . They are ?\nGrad E: I think so . Yeah . Um , so either we should regenerate the original {vocalsound} versions , {comment} {pause} or um , we should just make a note of it .\nPhD G: OK . Oh . Beca - Well {disfmarker} OK , because in one directory there 's two versions .\nGrad E: Yeah , that 's the first meeting I cut both versions . Just to check which w if there is a significant difference .\n",
      "PhD G: OK . And so I {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} OK so {disfmarker} but for the other meetings it 's the downsampled version that you have .\nGrad E: They 're all downsampled , yeah .\nPhD G: Oh , OK . Oh that 's th important to know , OK so we should probably {disfmarker} uh {pause} give them the non - downsampled versions .\nGrad E: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nPhD G: OK . Alright , then I 'll hold off on that and I 'll wait for you um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Probably by tomorrow\nPhD G: gen\nGrad E: I can {disfmarker} I 'll send you an email .\nPhD G: OK . Alright . OK . Yeah , definitely they should have the full bandwidth version ,\nGrad E: Yeah , because I mean {disfmarker} I I think Liz decided to go ahead with the {pause} downsampled versions cuz we can {disfmarker} There was no s like , r significant difference .\nPhD G: yeah . OK . Well , it takes {disfmarker} it takes up less disk space , for one thing .\n",
      "Grad E: It does take up less disk space , and apparently it did even better {pause} than the original {disfmarker} than the original versions ,\nPhD G: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad E: which you know , is just , probably random .\nPhD G: Right . Yeah , it was a small difference\nGrad E: But , um {pause} they probably w want the originals .\nPhD G: but yeah . Yeah . OK . OK , good . Good that {disfmarker} Well , it 's a good thing that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: OK , I think we 're losing , Don and Andreas at three - thirty , right ? OK .\nGrad E: Hey mon hafta booga .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: So , that 's why it was good to have Andreas , say these things but {disfmarker} So , we should probably talk about the IBM transcription process stuff that {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: OK . So , um you know that Adam created um , a b a script to generate the beep file ?\nProfessor F: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: To then create something to send to IBM . And , um , you {disfmarker} you should probably talk about that . But {disfmarker} but you were gonna to use the {pause} originally transcribed file because I tightened the time bins and that 's also the one that they had already {vocalsound} in trying to debug the first stage of this . And uh , my understanding was that , um {disfmarker} I haven't {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I haven't listened to it yet ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: but it sounded very good and {disfmarker} and I understand that you guys {vocalsound} were going to have a meeting today , before this meeting .\nGrad A: It was just to talk about how to generate it . Um , just so that while I 'm gone , you can regenerate it if you decide to do it a different way . So uh , Chuck and Thilo should , now more or less know how to generate the file\nPostdoc C: Excellent . OK .\n",
      "Grad A: and , {vocalsound} the other thing Chuck pointed out is that , um , {vocalsound} since this one is hand - marked , {vocalsound} there are discourse boundaries . Right ? So {disfmarker} so when one person is speaking , there 's breaks .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Whereas Thilo 's won't have that . So what {disfmarker} what we 're probably gonna do is just write a script , that if two , chunks are very close to each other on the same channel we 'll just merge them .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Oh ! OK . Ah , interesting . Yeah . Yeah . Oh , sure . Yeah , sure . Makes sense .\nGrad A: So , uh , and that will get around the problem of , the , {vocalsound} you know \" one word beep , one word beep , one word beep , one word beep \" .\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Ah ! Clever . Yes . Clever . Yeah . Excellent .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , in fact after our meeting uh , this morning Thilo came in and said that {vocalsound} um , there could be {pause} other differences between {vocalsound} the uh {pause} already transcribed meeting with the beeps in it and one that has {pause} just r been run through his process .\nPostdoc C: And that 's the purpose . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: So tomorrow , {vocalsound} when we go to make the um {pause} uh , chunked file {vocalsound} for IBM , we 're going to actually compare the two . So he 's gonna run his process on that same meeting ,\nPostdoc C: Great idea !\nPhD D: and then we 're gonna do the beep - ify on both , and listen to them and see if we notice any real differences .\nPhD G: Beep - ify !\n",
      "Postdoc C: OK , now one thing that prevented us from apply you {disfmarker} you from applying {disfmarker} Exactly . The training {disfmarker} So that is the training meeting . OK .\nPhD D: Yeah , w and we know that . Wel - uh we just wanna if {disfmarker} if there 're any major differences between {vocalsound} doing it on the hand\nPostdoc C: Uh - huh . Oh , interesting . Ah !\nGrad A: Hmm .\nPostdoc C: OK . Interesting idea . Great .\n",
      "PhD G: So this training meeting , uh w un is that uh {pause} some data where we have uh very um , {vocalsound} you know , accurate {pause} time marks ? for {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: I went back and hand - marked the {pause} ba the bins , I ment I mentioned that last week .\nPhD G: OK , yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: But the {disfmarker} but there 's {disfmarker} yeah , but there is this one issue with them in that there 're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} there are time boundaries in there that occur in the middle of speech .\nPhD G: Because {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: So {disfmarker} Like when we went t to um {disfmarker} When I was listening to the original file that Adam had , it 's like you {disfmarker} you hear a word then you hear a beep {vocalsound} and then you hear the continuation of what is the same sentence .\nGrad A: That 's on the other channel . That 's because of channel overlap .\nPhD D: Well , and {disfmarker} and so the {disfmarker} th\nPostdoc C: Hmm .\nGrad A: It 's {disfmarker} i\n",
      "PhD D: So there are these chunks that look like uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that have uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean that 's not gonna be true of the foreground speaker . That 'll only be if it 's the background speaker .\n",
      "PhD D: Right . So you 'll {disfmarker} you 'll have a chunk of , you know , channel {vocalsound} A which starts at zero and ends at ten , and then the same channel starting at eleven , ending at fifteen , and then again , starting at sixteen , ending at twenty . Right , so that 's three chunks where {vocalsound} actually we w can just make one chunk out of that which is A , zero , twenty .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nGrad A: That 's what I just said ,\nPostdoc C: Sure . Sure .\n",
      "Grad A: yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . So I just wanted to make sure that it was clear .\nPostdoc C: Yeah , I thought that was {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So {vocalsound} if you were to use these , you have to be careful not to pull out these individual {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD G: Oh ! I mean it {disfmarker} Right , I mean w I mean what I would {disfmarker} I was interested in is having {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a se having time marks for the beginnings and ends of speech by each speaker .\n",
      "Grad A: Well , that 's definitely a problem .\nPhD G: Uh , because we could use that to fine tune our alignment process\nGrad A: Battery .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD G: to make it more accurate .\nPhD B: Battery ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: So {disfmarker} uh , it {disfmarker} I don't care that you know , there 's actually abutting segments that we have to join together . That 's fine .\nPhD D: OK .\n",
      "PhD G: But what we do care about is that {vocalsound} the beginnings and ends um {pause} are actually close to the speech {vocalsound} inside of that\nPhD D: Yeah , I think Jane tightened these up by hand .\nPhD G: uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD G: OK , so what is the {disfmarker} sort of how tight are they ?\nProfessor F: Uh , it looks much better .\nPhD B: Yeah . Looks good .\nPostdoc C: They were , um , reasonably tight , but not excruciatingly tight .\n",
      "PhD G: Oh .\nPostdoc C: That would 've taken more time . I just wanted to get it so tha So that if you have like \" yeah \" {comment} in a {disfmarker} swimming in a big bin , then it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD G: No , no ! I don\nGrad A: Let me make a note on yours .\nPhD G: actually I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: I {disfmarker} it 's f That 's fine because we don't want to {disfmarker} th that 's perfectly fine . In fact it 's good . You always want to have a little bit of pause or nonspeech around the speech , say for recognition purposes . Uh , but just {disfmarker} just u w you know get an id I just wanted to have an idea of the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of how much extra you allowed um {disfmarker} so that I can interpret the numbers if I compared that with a forced alignment segmentation .\n",
      "Postdoc C: I can't answer that ,\nPhD G: So .\nPostdoc C: but {disfmarker} but my main goal was {pause} um , in these areas where you have a three - way overlap {vocalsound} and one of the overlaps involves \" yeah \" , {vocalsound} and it 's swimming in this huge bin , {vocalsound} I wanted to get it so that it was clo more closely localized .\n",
      "PhD G: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Right . But are we talking about , I don't know , {pause} a {vocalsound} {pause} tenth of a second ? a {disfmarker} ? You know ? How {disfmarker} how much {disfmarker} how much extra would you allow at most {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: I {disfmarker} I wanted to {disfmarker} I wanted it to be able to {disfmarker} l he be heard normally ,\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: so that if you {disfmarker} if you play {pause} back that bin and have it in the mode where it stops at the boundary , {vocalsound} it sounds like a normal word .\nPhD G: OK .\nPostdoc C: It doesn't sound like the person {disfmarker} i it sounds normal . It 's as if the person could 've stopped there .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: And it wouldn't have been an awkward place to stop .\nPhD G: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Now sometimes you know , it 's {disfmarker} these are involved in places where there was no time . And so , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} there wouldn't be {pause} a gap afterwards because {disfmarker}\nPhD G: OK .\nPostdoc C: I mean some cases , there 're some people {pause} um , who {disfmarker} who have very long {pause} segments of discourse where , {vocalsound} you know , they 'll {disfmarker} they 'll breath {pause} and then I put a break .\n",
      "PhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: But other than that , it 's really pretty continuous and this includes things like going from one sentence into the {disfmarker} u one utterance into the next , one sentence into the next , um , w without really stopping . I mean {disfmarker} i they , i you know in writing you have this {vocalsound} two spaces and a big gap\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: you know .\nPhD G: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc C: But {disfmarker} but uh {pause} {vocalsound} i some people are planning and , you know , I mean , a lot {disfmarker} we always are planning {pause} what we 're going to say next .\nPhD G: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc C: But uh , in which case , the gap between {pause} these two complete syntactic units , {vocalsound} um , which of course n spoken things are not always complete syntactically , but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but it would be a shorter p shorter break {vocalsound} than {vocalsound} maybe you might like .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: But the goal there was to {pause} not have {vocalsound} the text be so {disfmarker} so crudely {pause} parsed in a time bin . I mean , because {vocalsound} from a discourse m purpose {pause} it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it 's more {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it 's more useful to be able to see {disfmarker} and also you know , from a speech recognition purpose my impression is that {vocalsound} if you have too long a unit , it 's {disfmarker} it doesn't help you very much either , cuz of the memory .\n",
      "PhD G: Well , yeah . That 's fine .\nPostdoc C: So , that means that {vocalsound} the amount of time after something is variable depending partly on context , but my general goal {vocalsound} when there was {pause} sufficient space , room , pause {pause} after it {pause} to have it be {pause} kind of a natural feeling {pause} gap .\nPhD G: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Which I c I don't know what it would be quantified as . You know , Wally Chafe says that {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} in producing narratives , the spurts that people use {vocalsound} tend to be , {vocalsound} uh , that the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} what would be a pause might be something like two {disfmarker} two seconds .\nPhD G: Mmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: And um , that would be , you know one speaker . The discourse {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the people who look at turn taking often do use {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: I was interested that you chose uh , {vocalsound} you know um , {comment} the {disfmarker} you know that you use cuz I think that 's a unit that would be more consistent with sociolinguistics . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: Well we chose um , you know , half a second because {vocalsound} if {disfmarker} if you go much larger , you have a {disfmarker} y you know , your {disfmarker} your statement about how much overlap there is becomes less , {vocalsound} um , precise ,\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: because you include more of actual pause time into what you consider overlap speech . Um , so , it 's sort of a compromise ,\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . {comment} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , I also used I think something around zero point five seconds for the speech - nonspeech detector {disfmarker}\nPhD G: and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it 's also based {disfmarker} I mean Liz suggested that value based on {vocalsound} the distribution of pause times that you see in Switchboard and {disfmarker} and other corpora .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Um {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: for the minimum silence length .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm . I see .\nPhD B: So .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: OK .\nPostdoc C: In any case , this {disfmarker} this uh , meeting {pause} that I hand {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hand - adjusted two of them I mentioned before ,\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: and I sent {disfmarker} I sent email ,\nPhD G: OK ,\nPostdoc C: so {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: So {disfmarker} so at some point we will try to fine - tune our forced alignment\nPostdoc C: And I sent the {comment} {pause} path .\nPhD G: maybe using those as references because you know , what you would do is you would play with different parameters . And to get an object You need an objective {vocalsound} measure of how closely you can align the models to the actual speech . And that 's where your your data would be {pause} very important to have . So , I will {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah and hopefully the new meetings {pause} which will start from the channelized version will {disfmarker} will have better time boundaries {pause} and alignments .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm . Right .\nPostdoc C: But I like this idea of {disfmarker} uh , for our purposes for the {disfmarker} for the IBM preparation , {vocalsound} uh , n having these {pause} joined together ,\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc C: and uh {disfmarker} It makes a lot of sense . And in terms of transcription , it would be easy to do it that way .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: The way that they have with the longer units ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: not having to fuss with adding these units at this time .\nPhD B: Yeah . Whi - which could have one drawback . If there is uh a backchannel in between those three things ,\nPhD G: Right .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: the {disfmarker} the n the backchannel will {disfmarker} will occur at the end of {disfmarker} of those three .\nPostdoc C: Yes .\n",
      "PhD B: And {disfmarker} and in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the previous version where in the n which is used now , {vocalsound} there , the backchannel would {disfmarker} would be in - between there somewhere , so .\nPostdoc C: I see .\nPhD B: That would be more natural\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Well ,\nPhD B: but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: that 's {disfmarker} that 's right , but you know , thi this brings me to the other f stage of this which I discussed with you earlier today ,\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: which is {vocalsound} the second stage is {vocalsound} um , w what to do {pause} in terms of the transcribers adjustment of these data . I discussed this with you too . Um , the tr so the idea initially was , we would get {vocalsound} uh , for the new meetings , so the e EDU meetings , that {vocalsound} Thilo ha has now presegmented all of them for us , on a channel by channel basis . And um , so , I 've assigned {disfmarker} I 've {disfmarker} I 've assigned them to our transcribers and um , so far I 've discussed it with one , with uh {disfmarker} And I had a {pause} about an hour discussion with her about this yesterday , we went through {vocalsound} uh EDU - one , at some extent . And it occurred to me that {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} that {vocalsound} basically what we have in this kind of a format is {disfmarker} you could consider it as a staggered mixed file , we had some discussion over the weekend a about {disfmarker} at {disfmarker} at this other meeting that we were all a at {disfmarker} um , {vocalsound} about whether the tran the IBM transcribers should hear a single channel audio , or a mixed channel audio . And um , {vocalsound} in {disfmarker} in a way , by {disfmarker} by having this {disfmarker} this chunk and then the backchannel {vocalsound} after it , it 's like a stagal staggered mixed channel . And um , {vocalsound} it occurred {pause} to me in my discussion with her yesterday that um , um , the {disfmarker} {pause} the {disfmarker} the maximal gain , it 's {disfmarker} from the IBM {pause} people , may be in long stretches of connected speech . So it 's basically a whole bunch of words {vocalsound} which they can really do , because of the continuity within that person 's turn . So , what I 'm thinking , and it may be that not all meetings will be good for this , {comment} but {disfmarker} but what I 'm thinking is that {vocalsound} in the EDU meetings , they tend to be {vocalsound} driven by a couple of dominant speakers . And , if the chunked files focused on the dominant speakers , {vocalsound} then , when {disfmarker} when it got s patched together when it comes back from IBM , we can add the backchannels . It seems to me {vocalsound} that {vocalsound} um , you know , the backchannels per - se wouldn't be so hard , but then there 's this question of the time {pause} @ @ {comment} uh , marking , and whether the beeps would be {vocalsound} uh y y y And I 'm not exactly sure how that {disfmarker} how that would work with the {disfmarker} with the backchannels . And , so um {disfmarker} And certainly things that are {vocalsound} intrusions of multiple words , {vocalsound} taken out of context and displaced in time from where they occurred , {vocalsound} that would be hard . So , m my {vocalsound} thought is {pause} i I 'm having this transcriber go through {vocalsound} the EDU - one meeting , and indicate a start time {nonvocalsound} f for each dominant speaker , endpoi end time for each dominant speaker , and the idea that {vocalsound} these units would be generated for the dominant speakers , {vocalsound} and maybe not for the other channels .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah the only , um , disadvantage of that is , then it 's hard to use an automatic method to do that . The advantage is that it 's probably faster to do that than it is to use the automated method and correct it . So .\nPostdoc C: Well , it {disfmarker}\nGrad A: We 'll just have to see .\n",
      "Postdoc C: OK . I think {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I think um , you know , the original plan was that the transcriber would adjust the t the boundaries , and all that for all the channels but , {vocalsound} you know , that is so time - consuming , and since we have a bottleneck here , we want to get IBM things that are usable s as soon as possible , then this seemed to me it 'd be a way of gett to get them a flood of data , which would be useful when it comes back to us . And um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Oh also , at the same time she {disfmarker} when she goes through this , she 'll be {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} If there 's anything that {vocalsound} was encoded as a pause , but really has something transcribable in it , {vocalsound} then she 's going to {vocalsound} uh , make a mark {disfmarker} w uh , so you know , so {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} that bin would be marked as it {disfmarker} as double dots and she 'll just add an S . And in the other {disfmarker} in the other case , if it 's marked as speech , {vocalsound} and really there 's nothing transcribable in it , then she 's going to put a s dash , and I 'll go through and it {disfmarker} and um , you know , with a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} with a substitution command , get it so that it 's clear that those are the other category . I 'll just , you know , recode them . But um , {vocalsound} um , the transcribable events {pause} that um , I 'm considering in this , {vocalsound} uh , continue to be {vocalsound} laugh , as well as speech , and cough and things like that , so I 'm not stripping out anything , just {disfmarker} just you know , being very lenient in what 's considered speech . Yeah ?\n",
      "PhD D: Jane ? In terms of the {disfmarker} this new procedure you 're suggesting , {vocalsound} um , u what is the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: It 's not that different .\nPhD D: So I 'm a little confused , because how do we know where to put beeps ? Is it {disfmarker} i d y is it {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Oh , OK .\nGrad A: Transcriber will do it .\n",
      "Postdoc C: So what it {disfmarker} what it {disfmarker} what it involves is {disfmarker} is really a s uh , {vocalsound} uh , the original pr procedure , but {vocalsound} only applied to {pause} uh , a certain {pause} strategically chosen {pause} s aspect of the data .\nGrad A: We pick the easy parts of the data basically ,\nPostdoc C: So {disfmarker}\nGrad A: and transcriber marks it by hand .\nPostdoc C: You got it .\nGrad A: And because {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: But after we 've done Thilo 's thing .\nGrad A: No .\nPostdoc C: Yes !\nGrad A: Oh , after . Oh , OK ,\nPostdoc C: Yes !\nGrad A: I didn't {disfmarker} I didn't understand that .\nPostdoc C: Oh yeah !\nGrad A: OK .\nPhD B: So , I 'm @ @ {disfmarker} now I 'm confused .\nPostdoc C: OK . We start with your presegmented version {disfmarker}\nPhD G: OK , and I 'm leaving .\nGrad E: Yeah , I have to go as well .\n",
      "PhD G: So , um {disfmarker}\nGrad A: OK , leave the mikes on , and just put them on the table .\nGrad E: OK . Thanks .\nPostdoc C: We start with the presegmented version {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Let me mark you as no digits .\nPhD B: You start with the presegmentation , r {vocalsound} yeah ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: Yeah . And then um , {vocalsound} the transcriber , {vocalsound} instead of going painstakingly through all the channels and moving the boundaries around , and deciding if it 's speech or not , but not transcribing anything . OK ? Instead of doing that , which was our original plan , {vocalsound} the tra They focus on the dominant speaker {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . They just {vocalsound} do that on {pause} the main channels .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Yeah . So what they do is they identify who 's the di dominant speaker , and when the speaker starts .\nPhD D: OK .\nPhD B: Yeah ? OK .\nPostdoc C: So I mean , you 're still gonna {disfmarker}\nPhD B: And you just {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: So we 're {disfmarker} It 's based on your se presegmentation , that 's the basic {pause} thing .\n",
      "PhD B: and you just use the s the segments of the dominant speaker then ? For {disfmarker} for sending to {disfmarker} to IBM or {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Exactly .\nPhD D: So , now Jane , my question is {vocalsound} when they 're all done adjusting the w time boundaries for the dominant speaker , {comment} have they then also erased the time boundaries for the other ones ?\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . Uh No . No , no . Huh - uh . S\nPhD D: So how will we know who {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: That 's {disfmarker} that 's why she 's notating the start and end points of the dominant speakers . So , on a {disfmarker} you know , so {vocalsound} i in EDU - one , i as far as I listened to it , you start off with a {disfmarker} a s section by Jerry . So Jerry starts at minute so - and - so , and goes until minute so - and - so . And then Mark Paskin comes in . And he starts at {vocalsound} minute such - and - such , and goes on till minute so - and - so . OK . And then {vocalsound} meanwhile , she 's listening to {vocalsound} {pause} both of these guys ' channels , determining if there 're any cases of misclassification of speech as nothing , and nothing as speech ,\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . OK .\nPostdoc C: and {vocalsound} a and adding a tag if that happens .\nPhD D: So she does the adjustments on those guys ?\nPostdoc C: But you know , I wanted to say , his segmentation is so good , that {vocalsound} um , the part that I listened to with her yesterday {vocalsound} didn't need any adjustments of the bins .\nPhD B: On that meeting .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: So far we haven't . So this is not gonna be a major part of the process , at least {disfmarker} least not in {disfmarker} not on ones that {disfmarker} that really {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So if you don't have to adjust the bins , why not just do what it {disfmarker} for all the channels ?\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm ?\nPhD D: Why not just throw all the channels to IBM ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: Well there 's the question o of {pause} whether {disfmarker} Well , OK . She i It 's a question of how much time we want our transcriber to invest here {vocalsound} when she 's gonna have to invest that when it comes back from IBM anyway .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: So if it 's only inserting \" mm - hmm \"s here and there , then , wouldn't that be something that would be just as efficient to do at this end , instead of having it go through I B M , then be patched together , then be double checked here .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . Right .\nPhD B: Yeah . But {disfmarker} But then we could just use the {disfmarker} the output of the detector , and do the beeping on it , and send it to I B\nPhD D: Without having her check anything .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Right .\nPostdoc C: Well , I guess {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I think we just {disfmarker} we just have to listen to it and see how good they are .\n",
      "PhD B: For some meetings , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sure it {disfmarker} i n\nPostdoc C: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm open to that , it was {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah , if it 's working well ,\nPhD B: That 's {disfmarker} And some {disfmarker} on some meetings it 's good .\nProfessor F: that sounds like a good idea since as you say you have to do stuff with the other end anyway .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Well yea OK , good . I mean the detector , this {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah , I mean we have to fix it when it comes back anyhow .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Now , you were saying that they {disfmarker} they differ in how well they work depending on channel s sys systems and stuff .\nPhD B: Yeah . So we should perhaps just select meetings on which the speech - nonspeech detection works well ,\nPostdoc C: But EDU is great .\n",
      "PhD B: and just use , {vocalsound} those meetings to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to send to IBM and , do the other ones .\nGrad A: Release to begin with .\nPostdoc C: How interesting . You know {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: What 's the problem {disfmarker} the l I forget . Is the problem the lapel , or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Uh , it really depends . Um , my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} my impression is that it 's better for meetings with fewer speakers , and it 's better for {disfmarker} {vocalsound} for meetings where nobody is breathing .\nProfessor F: Oh ,\nPhD B: Yeah ,\nProfessor F: the dead meetings .\nPhD B: get {disfmarker} That 's it .\nPhD D: So in fact this might suggest an alternative sort of a {disfmarker} a c a hybrid between these two things .\nGrad A: No , the undead meeting , yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Yeah . Yeah ?\nPhD D: So the {disfmarker} the one suggestion is you know we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we run Thilo 's thing and then we have somebody go and adjust all the time boundaries\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah ?\nPhD D: and we send it to IBM . The other one is {vocalsound} we just run his thing and send it to IBM .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: There 's a {disfmarker} a another possibility if we find that there are some problems ,\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: and that is {vocalsound} if we go ahead and we {vocalsound} just run his , and we generate the beeps file , then we have somebody listen beeps file .\nPhD B: Yeah . And erase {disfmarker}\nPhD D: And they listen to each section and say \" yes , no \" whether that section is\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Is intelligible .\n",
      "PhD D: i i intelligible or not . And it just {disfmarker} You know , there 's a little interface which will {disfmarker} for all the \" yes \" - es it {disfmarker} then that will be the final {vocalsound} beep file .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Blech .\nPostdoc C: That 's interesting ! Cuz that 's {disfmarker} that 's directly related to the e end task .\nGrad A: Stress test .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: How interesting !\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . I mean it wouldn't be that much fun for a transcriber to sit there , hear it , beep , yes or no .\nPhD B: Nope .\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know .\nPhD D: But it would be quick .\nProfessor F: It would be {disfmarker} kind of quick but they 're still listening to everything .\nPhD D: But there 's no adjusting . And that 's what 's slow . There 's no adjusting of time boundaries .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Well , {vocalsound} eh , listening does take time too .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah . I don't know , I {disfmarker} I think I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm really tending towards {disfmarker}\nGrad A: One and a half times real time .\n",
      "Professor F: I mean , {vocalsound} what 's the worst that happens ? Do the transcribers {disfmarker} I mean as long as th on the other end they can say there 's {disfmarker} there 's something {disfmarker} conventions so that they say \" huh ? \"\nPhD D: Yeah . Right . They {disfmarker} they {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: and then we can flag those later .\nPhD D: Yeah . That 's true .\nProfessor F: i i It {disfmarker} i\n",
      "PhD D: We can just catch it at the {disfmarker} catch everything at this side .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD D: Well maybe that 's the best way to go ,\nPostdoc C: How interesting !\nPhD D: just {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I mean it just depends on how {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Well EDU {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah ,\nGrad A: Sorry , go ahead .\nPhD B: u u u\nPostdoc C: So I was gonna say , EDU - one is good enough ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: maybe we could include it in this {disfmarker} in this set of uh , this stuff we send .\nPhD B: Yeah there 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think there are some meetings where it would {disfmarker} would {disfmarker} It 's possible like this .\nGrad A: Yeah I {disfmarker} I think , we won't know until we generate a bunch of beep files automatically , listen to them and see how bad they are .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: We won't be able to s include it with this first thing ,\nGrad A: If {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Hmm . Oh , OK .\nPhD D: because there 's a part of the process of the beep file which requires knowing the normalization coefficients .\nPostdoc C: Oh , I see .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So a\nGrad A: That 's not hard to do . Just {disfmarker} it takes {disfmarker} you know , it just takes five minutes rather than , taking a second .\nPhD D: OK\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: So . I just hand {disfmarker} hard - coded it .\nPhD D: Right , except I don't think that {disfmarker} the c the instructions for doing that was in that directory , right ? I {disfmarker} I didn't see where you had gener\nGrad A: No , but it 's easy enough to do .\nPhD B: What {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: But I {disfmarker} but I have a {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Doing the gain ? It 's no problem . Adjusting the gain ?\n",
      "PhD D: n Doing th No , getting the coefficients , for each channel .\nPhD B: Yeah , that 's no problem .\nPostdoc C: Know what numbers .\nPhD D: OK . So we just run that one {disfmarker}\nGrad A: There are lots of ways to do it .\nPhD B: We can do that .\nGrad A: I have one program that 'll do it . You can find other programs .\nPhD B: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I used it , so .\nPhD D: We just run that\nGrad A: Yep .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: J - sound - stat ? OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad A: Minus D , capital D .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I have {pause} another suggestion on that , which is , {vocalsound} since , really what this is , is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is trying to in the large , send the right thing to them and there is gonna be this {disfmarker} this post - processing step , um , why don't we check through a bunch of things by sampling it ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Right ? In other words , rather than , um , uh , saying we 're gonna listen to everything {disfmarker}\nGrad A: I didn't mean listen to everything , I meant , just see if they 're any good .\nProfessor F: Yeah . So y you do a bunch of meetings , you listen to {disfmarker} to a little bit here and there ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor F: if it sounds like it 's almost always right and there 's not any big problem you send it to them .\nPhD D: Send it to them .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: And , you know , then they 'll send us back what we {disfmarker} w what {disfmarker} what they send back to us ,\nPostdoc C: Oh , that 'd be great .\nProfessor F: and we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll fix things up and {vocalsound} some meetings will cost more time to fix up than others .\nGrad A: We should {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: And we should just double - check with Brian on a few simple conventions on how they should mark things .\nPhD B: Sure .\n",
      "PhD D: OK . When they {disfmarker} when there 's either no speech in there ,\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: or {vocalsound} something they don't understand ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: things like that .\nGrad A: Yeah , cuz @ @ uh what I had originally said to Brian was well they 'll have to mark , when they can't distinguish between the foreground and background ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: because I thought that was gonna be the most prevalent . But if we send them without editing , then we 're also gonna hafta have m uh , notations for words that are cut off ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: and other sorts of , uh , acoustic problems .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: They do already .\nPhD D: And they may just guess at what those cut - off words are ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: but w I mean we 're gonna adjust {disfmarker} everything when we come back {disfmarker}\nGrad A: But what {disfmarker} what we would like them to do is be conservative so that they should only write down the transcript if they 're sure .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: And otherwise they should mark it so that we can check .\nPhD B: Mark it . Sure . Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: Well , we have the unintelligibility {pause} convention .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: And actually they have one also ,\nGrad A: Right .\nPostdoc C: which {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: i Can I maybe have {disfmarker} have an order of {disfmarker} it 's probably in your paper that I haven't looked at lately , but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Certainty .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , an order of magnitude notion of {disfmarker} of how {disfmarker} on a good meeting , how often uh , do you get segments that come in the middle of words and so forth , and uh {disfmarker} in a bad meeting how {vocalsound} often ?\nPhD B: Uh .\nPostdoc C: Was is it in a {disfmarker} in a {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what is the t\nProfessor F: Well he 's saying , you know , that the {disfmarker} the EDU meeting was a good {disfmarker} good meeting ,\n",
      "Postdoc C: In a good meeting , what ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: right ?\nPostdoc C: Oh I see ,\nProfessor F: Uh , and so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so it was almost {disfmarker} it was almost always doing the right thing .\nPostdoc C: the characteristics .\nProfessor F: So I wanted to get some sense of what {disfmarker} what almost always meant . And then , uh in a bad meeting , {vocalsound} or p some meetings where he said oh he 's had some problems , what does that mean ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: Uh - huh . OK .\nProfessor F: So I mean does one of the does it mean one percent and ten percent ? Or does it mean {vocalsound} five percent and fifty percent ?\nPostdoc C: OK .\nProfessor F: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Or {disfmarker} Maybe percentage isn't the right word ,\nPostdoc C: Just\nPhD B: Yeah th\nProfessor F: but you know how many {disfmarker} how many per minute , or {disfmarker} You know .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , the {disfmarker} the problem is that , nnn , the numbers Ian gave in the paper is just uh , some frame error rate . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's not really {disfmarker} {vocalsound} What will be effective for {disfmarker} for the transcribers , is {disfmarker} They have to {disfmarker} yeah , in in they have to insure that that 's a real s spurt or something . And {disfmarker} but , {vocalsound} the numbers {disfmarker} Oops . Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc C: Hmm !\n",
      "PhD B: Let me think . So the {pause} speech {disfmarker} the amount of speech that is missed by the {pause} detector , for a good meeting , I th is around {pause} or under one percent , I would say . But there can be {disfmarker} Yeah . For {disfmarker} yeah , but there can be more {disfmarker} There 's {disfmarker} There 's more amount speech {disfmarker} uh , more amount of {disfmarker} Yeah well , the detector says there is speech , but there is none . So that {disfmarker} that can be a lot when {disfmarker} when it 's really a breathy channel .\n",
      "Professor F: But I think that 's less of a problem .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: They 'll just listen . It 's just wasted time .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: And th and that 's for a good meeting . Now what about in a meeting that you said we 've {disfmarker} you 've had some more trouble with ?\n",
      "PhD B: I can't {comment} really {disfmarker} hhh , {comment} {pause} Tsk . {comment} I {pause} don't have really representative numbers , I think . That 's really {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I did {pause} this on {disfmarker} on four meetings and only five minutes of {disfmarker} of every meet of {disfmarker} of these meetings so , {vocalsound} it 's not {disfmarker} not that representative , but , it 's perhaps , Fff . Um {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's perhaps then {disfmarker} it 's perhaps five percent of something , which s uh the {disfmarker} the frames {disfmarker} speech frames which are {disfmarker} which are missed , but um , I can't {disfmarker} can't really tell .\n",
      "Professor F: Right . So I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So i Sometime , we might wanna go back and look at it more in terms of {vocalsound} how many times is there a spurt that 's {disfmarker} that 's uh , interrupted ?\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor F: Something like that ?\nPostdoc C: The other problem is , that when it {disfmarker} when it uh d i on the breathy ones , where you get {vocalsound} {vocalsound} breathing , uh , inti indicated as speech .\n",
      "Professor F: And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: And I guess we could just indicate to the transcribers not to {pause} encode that if they {disfmarker} We could still do the beep file .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah again I {disfmarker} I think that that is probably less of a problem because if you 're {disfmarker} if there 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} If {disfmarker} if a {disfmarker} if a word is {disfmarker} is split , then they might have to listen to it a few times to really understand that they can't quite get it .\nPostdoc C: OK . OK .\nPhD B: But {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: Whereas if they listen {nonvocalsound} to it and there 's {disfmarker} don't hear any speech I think they 'd probably just listen to it once .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: So there 'd {disfmarker} you 'd think there 'd be a {disfmarker} a factor of three or four in {disfmarker} in , uh , cost function ,\nPostdoc C: OK .\nProfessor F: you know , between them or something .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , so {disfmarker} but I think that 's {disfmarker} n that really doesn't happen very often that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that a word is cut in the middle or something . That 's {disfmarker} that 's really not {disfmarker} not normal .\n",
      "Professor F: So {disfmarker} so what you 're saying is that nearly always what happens when there 's a problem is that {disfmarker} is that uh , there 's {vocalsound} some uh , uh nonspeech that uh {disfmarker} that is b interpreted as speech .\nPhD B: That is marked as speech . Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor F: Well then , we really should just send the stuff .\nPostdoc C: That would be great .\nProfessor F: Right ? Because that doesn't do any harm .\nPhD B: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: You know , if they {disfmarker} they hear you know , a dog bark and they say what was the word , they {comment} you know , they {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah , I als I {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Ruff ruff !\nPhD B: Yeah I also thought of {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there are really some channels where it is almost {comment} um , only bre breathing in it . And to {disfmarker} to re - run 's\nProfessor F: Yeah ?\n",
      "PhD B: Eh , um . Yeah . I 've got a {disfmarker} a {pause} P - a {pause} method with loops into the cross - correlation with the PZM mike , and then to reject everything which {disfmarker} which seems to be breath .\nProfessor F: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: So , I could run this on those breathy channels , and perhaps throw out {disfmarker}\nGrad A: That 's a good idea .\nPostdoc C: Wow , that 's a great idea .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . But I think {disfmarker} I th Again , I think that sort of {disfmarker} that that would be good ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: and what that 'll do is just cut the time a little further .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: But I think none of this is stuff that really needs somebody doing these {disfmarker} these uh , uh , explicit markings .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Excellent . Oh , I 'd be delighted with that , I {disfmarker} I was very impressed with the {disfmarker} with the result . Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah , cuz the other thing that was concerning me about it was that it seemed kind of specialized to the EDU meeting , and {disfmarker} and that then when you get a meeting like this or something ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and you have a b a bunch of different dominant speakers\nPostdoc C: Oh yeah , interesting .\n",
      "Professor F: you know , how are you gonna handle it .\nPostdoc C: Oh yeah .\nProfessor F: Whereas this sounds like a more general solution\nPostdoc C: Oh yeah , I pr I much prefer this ,\nProfessor F: is {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: I was just trying to find a way {disfmarker} Cuz I {disfmarker} I don't think the staggered mixed channel is awfully good as a way of handling overlaps .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Uh - huh .\nPostdoc C: But {disfmarker} but uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Well good . That {disfmarker} that really simplifies thing then .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD D: And we can just , you know , get the meeting , process it , put the beeps file , send it off to IBM .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: You know ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: With very little {pause} work on our side .\nPhD B: Process it , hear into it . I would {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Do what ?\nPhD B: Um , {pause} listen to it , and then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Or at least sample it .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Well , sample it .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Sample it .\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker} I would just use some samples ,\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor F: make sure you don't send them three hours of \" bzzz \" {comment} or something .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD B: No .\nPhD D: Yeah . Right .\nPhD B: That won't be good .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah that would be very good .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: And then we can you know {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD D: That 'll oughta be a good way to get the pipeline going .\nPostdoc C: Oh , I 'd be delighted . Yeah .\nPhD B: And there 's {disfmarker} there 's one point which I {comment} uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah , which {disfmarker} which I r {vocalsound} we covered when I {disfmarker} when I r listened to one of the EDU meetings ,\nProfessor F: Great .\n",
      "PhD B: and that 's {vocalsound} that somebody is playing sound from his laptop .\nGrad A: Uh - huh\nPhD B: And i {vocalsound} the speech - nonspeech detector just assigns randomly the speech to {disfmarker} to one of the channels , so . Uh - I haven't - I didn't think of {disfmarker} of s of {vocalsound} this before ,\nGrad A: What can you do ?\nPhD B: but what {disfmarker} what shall we do about s things like this ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: Well you were suggesting {disfmarker} You suggested maybe just not sending that part of the meeting .\nGrad A: Yep . Mmm .\nPostdoc C: But {disfmarker}\nPhD B: But , sometimes the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the laptop is in the background and some {disfmarker} somebody is {disfmarker} is talking , and , {vocalsound} that 's really a little bit confusing , but {disfmarker}\nGrad A: It 's a little bit confusing .\nProfessor F: That 's life .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: I mean , {comment} what 're we gonna do ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Even a hand - transcription would {disfmarker}\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc C: Do you {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad A: a hand - transcriber would have trouble with that .\nPhD B: Yeah ,\nGrad A: So .\nPhD B: that 's {disfmarker} that 's a second question , \" what {disfmarker} what will different transcribers do with {disfmarker} with the laptop sound ? \"\n",
      "Postdoc C: Would you {disfmarker} would {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: What was the l what was the laptop sound ?\nPostdoc C: Yeah , go ahead .\nProfessor F: I mean was it speech ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: or was it {disfmarker}\nPhD B: It 's speech .\nProfessor F: Great .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Well , so {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} So my standard approach has been if it 's not someone close - miked , then , they don't end up on one of the close - miked channels . They end up on a different channel . And we have any number of channels available ,\nProfessor F: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: I mean it 's an infinite number of channels .\nPhD B: But ,\nPostdoc C: So just put them on some other channel .\n",
      "PhD B: when thi when this is sent to {disfmarker} to the I M - eh , I B M transcribers , I don't know if {disfmarker} if they can tell that 's really {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Yeah , that 's right .\nGrad A: Yeah cuz there will be no channel on which it is foreground .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: Uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Well , they have a convention , in their own procedures , {vocalsound} which is for a background {pause} sound .\n",
      "Grad A: Right , but , uh , in general I don't think we want them transcribing the background , cuz that would be too much work . \nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Right ? For it {disfmarker} because in the overlap sections , then they 'll\nPhD D: Well I don't think Jane 's saying they 're gonna transcribe it , but they 'll just mark it as being {disfmarker} there 's some background stuff there ,\nGrad A: But that 's gonna be all over the place .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD D: right ?\n",
      "Grad A: How w how will they tell the difference between that sort of background and the dormal {disfmarker} normal background of two people talking at once ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Oh , I think {disfmarker} I think it 'd be easy to to say \" background laptop \" .\nGrad A: How would they know that ?\nPhD D: But wait a minute , why would they treat them differently ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Well because one of them {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Because otherwise it 's gonna be too much work for them to mark it . They 'll be marking it all over the place .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Oh , I s background laptop or , background LT {vocalsound} {vocalsound} wouldn't take any time .\nGrad A: Sure , but how are they gonna tell bet the difference between that and two people just talking at the same time ?\nPostdoc C: And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Oh , you can tell . Acoustically , can't you tell ?\n",
      "PhD B: It 's really good sound , so {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Oh is it ? Oh !\nProfessor F: Well , I mean , isn't there a category something like uh , \" sounds for someone for whom there is no i close mike \" ?\nPhD B: Yeah that would be very important ,\nGrad A: But how do we d how do we do that for the I B M folks ?\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD B: yeah .\nGrad A: How can they tell that ?\nPhD D: Well we may just have to do it when it gets back here .\n",
      "Grad A: Yes , that 's my opinion as well .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: So we don't do anything for it {disfmarker} with it .\nPostdoc C: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: That sounds good .\nGrad A: And they 'll just mark it however they mark it ,\nPostdoc C: That sounds good .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad A: and we 'll correct it when it comes back .\nPhD B: So th\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD B: there was a category for @ @ {comment} speech .\nPostdoc C: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , the default .\nPostdoc C: Yeah , s a\nGrad A: No , not default .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc C: Well , as it comes back , we have a uh {disfmarker} when we can use the channelized interface for encoding it , then it 'll be easy for us to handle .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but if {disfmarker} if out of context , they can't tell if it 's a channeled speak uh , you know , a close - miked speaker or not , {vocalsound} then that would be confusing to them .\nPhD B: OK .\nGrad A: Right .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc C: I don't know , I {disfmarker} it doesn't {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} Either way would be fine with me , I don't really care .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . So . Shall we uh , do digits and get out of here ?\nGrad A: Yep .\nPostdoc C: I have o I have one question . Do you think we should send the um {disfmarker} that whole meeting to them and not worry about pre - processing it ?\nProfessor F: Yes ma '\n",
      "Postdoc C: Or {disfmarker} Uh , what I mean is {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} we should {vocalsound} leave the {vocalsound} part with the audio in the uh , beep file that we send to IBM for that one , or should we {vocalsound} start after the {disfmarker} that part of the meeting is over in what we send .\nProfessor F: Which part ?\nPhD B: With {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: So , the part where they 're using sounds from their {disfmarker} from their laptops .\n",
      "PhD B: with the laptop sound , or {disfmarker} ? just {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: w If we have speech from the laptop should we just uh , excise that from what we send to IBM , or should we {vocalsound} i give it to them and let them do with it what they can ?\nPhD D: I think we should just {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's gonna be too much work if we hafta {vocalsound} worry about that I think .\nPostdoc C: OK , that 'd be nice to have a {disfmarker} a uniform procedure .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , I think if we just {disfmarker} m send it all to them . you know .\nGrad A: Worry about it when we get back .\nPostdoc C: Good . And see how well they do .\nPhD D: Let {disfmarker} Yeah , worry about it when we get back in .\nPostdoc C: And give them freedom to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to indicate if it 's just not workable .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: OK ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: excellent .\n",
      "Professor F: Cuz , I wouldn't {disfmarker} don't think we would mind {pause} having that {pause} transcribed , if they did it .\nGrad A: I think {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah , e\nGrad A: As I say , we 'll just have to listen to it and see how horrible it is .\nPostdoc C: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: Sample it , rather .\nPostdoc C: OK . Alright .\nPhD B: I think that {disfmarker} that will be a little bit of a problem\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: That 's great .\nPhD B: as it really switches around between {vocalsound} two different channels , I think .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm , and {disfmarker} and they 're very {disfmarker} it 's very audible ? on the close - talking channels ?\nPhD B: What {disfmarker} what I would {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad A: Oh well . I mean , it 's the same problem as the lapel mike .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad A: But {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Oh , interesting .\n",
      "PhD B: Comparable , yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc C: OK , alright . Digits .\nProfessor F: Let 's do digits .\nPostdoc C: OK , so we read the transcript number first , right ?\nGrad A: Are we gonna do it altogether or separately ?\nPhD B: So {disfmarker} What time is it ?\nProfessor F: Uh , {vocalsound} why don't we do it together ,\nPostdoc C: Uh , quarter to four .\nPhD B: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor F: that 's {disfmarker} that 's a nice fast way to do it .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: One , two , three , go !\nPostdoc C: It 's kind of interesting if there 're any more errors in these , {vocalsound} than we had the first set .\nGrad A: Nnn , yeah , I think there probably will be .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Do you guys plug your ears when you do it ?\nGrad A: I do .\nPhD B: No .\nPostdoc C: I usually do .\nPhD D: I do .\n"
    ],
    "length": 25279,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 66,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was with the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. First of all, petitioners presented several petitions including to call the government to implement a wage supplement. Later the committee expressed the thanks to different departments and people for the contribution to the society under the Covid-19 situation. When it came to questions, the committee discussed the financial support from the government to various industries as well as groups to ensure equal rights of different groups of people, especially the most vulnerable ones. Moreover, the meeting discussed the new law in Hong Kong and issues related to community services in Canada. In the end, the committee discussed the recent and upcoming solutions to battle the Covid-19 concerning various aspects.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 13th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Some members will be participating via video conference and some will be participating in person. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up on either side of the Chairs chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces at their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute\n",
      "Mr. Ziad Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning, CPC): I have a point of order.\nThe Chair: Can the member wait for the point of order until we finish the introduction?\nMr. Ziad Aboultaif: There is so much noise in the background over there, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: That is a very good point of order. I want to remind everyone that when we speak, it is picked up. We have amazing speakersand an amazing Speaker, but that's a whole other storyand amazing microphones in the chamber, and they do pick up everything. I know there was some chatter going on in the background. I want to make sure everyone is aware of that. Mr. Aboultaif, that was a very good point of order. I appreciate that. For those joining us via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mikes on mute when you're not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel, and if you want to speak in French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by video conference wish to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements for today, so we'll continue to the presentation of petitions, for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition goes to Mr. Manly, who is joining us via video conference.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a petition that calls on the government to deal with helping our honey bees. They are crucial to our food system. They provide hundreds of billions of dollars worth of services to commercial agricultural crops and other ecological services every year, and the European Union has put heavy restrictions on the chemicals that are affecting them, the neonicotinoids. This petition calls on the Government of Canada, for the sake of bees and our food security, to follow Europe's lead and adhere to the precautionary principle by banning the use of neonicotinoids in Canada.\n",
      "The Chair: The next presenter of petitions will be Mr. Genuis, who is very parliamentary and dressed from the waist up, I understand.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and that is all you need to see for the moment. Canadians are horrified by the military report on the conditions of long-term care in Ontario. It raises big questions about the choices facing seniors in certain situations, which is what makes this first petition particularly timely. I am tabling a petition related to Bill C-7, the government's euthanasia bill, which seeks to dramatically remove safeguards that the government said were vital only a short time ago. When some people are living in deplorable conditions, we cannot truly speak of them as having a choice of when they ought to die. Especially in light of that new information, I commend this petition for the consideration of members of the House. The second petition is in support of Bill S-204 on organ harvesting and trafficking, put forward in the Senate. The bill would make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad and receive an organ without the donor's consent. This bill seeks to combat the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking.\n",
      "The Chair: The next petition presenter will be Ms. May.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and greetings from SaanichGulf Islands. The petition I'm presenting today is petition e-2509, which has been duly certified. It relates to what I think many of us will regard as the real heroes of the last few months. In this pandemic, there have often been very underpaid and overworked front-line workers who receive minimum wage and nothing more, and who are of course deemed essential services. The petitioners have asked the government to implement a wage supplement as a temporary measure to bring the wages for those who are in contact with the general public and working in what has been deemed an essential service to no less than $20 an hour, in light of their service and the risks they're taking for all of us.\n",
      "The Chair: We have a point of order from Ms. Harder.\nMs. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC): Mr. Chair, the honourable member who just spoke brought up a great point yesterday. She said that when we present petitions, we are simply supposed to give one or two sentences before putting them on the table. I believe that was more than one or two sentences.\n",
      "The Chair: I want to remind honourable members that when they are presenting petitions, they should be very concise with the prcis that they give up front, as opposed to going on for a long time. Now we will proceed to statements by members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes, and each statement will be for one minute. We will start with Mr. Fonseca.\n",
      "Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga EastCooksville, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I am honoured to recognize the youth in my riding of Mississauga EastCooksville who are part of the 52nd Mississauga Scouts. For over a decade, I've had the great opportunity to join the Scouts every year during the month of May for the door-to-door food drives. This year has been a lot different, owing to the COVID situation, but our Scouts are not used to saying the word impossible. David Chant, head leader for their cub pack, reached out to share that the youth have found innovative ways to engage our community through a virtual food bank. I say a big thank you to Scout leaders like David, who are strong role models for our youth, teaching them the importance of leadership, kindness and giving back. I've always been amazed with the support within our community for the Scouts' food drive. David and his group of Scouts raised over $46,000 worth of food last year for the Mississauga Food Bank and The Compass. Again, I give a huge virtual high-five to all of our young Scouts, who have taken the lead with lots of compassion and care.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Richards.\n",
      "Mr. Blake Richards (BanffAirdrie, CPC): May 24 to May 31 is Tourism Week in Canada. This annual celebration is a time for us to recognize the contributions and experiences of Canada's tourism industry. This is a very important industry, and this year's Tourism Week is a little different from what it normally is. The ongoing coronavirus crisis has closed provincial and international borders to recreational travel, and tourism operators from coast to coast have been among the first and hardest hit due to the government-mandated lockdowns. Clear criteria regarding border reopenings and health and safety requirements will allow hospitality and tourism businesses to sufficiently prepare to reopen. This includes rehiring employees, ordering supplies and putting together tour packages and marketing plans. Operators do not need to be set back any further because of a lack of clarity around reopening. While this Tourism Week is not a celebration like the one we had expected, I anticipate next year's celebration to be a celebration of an even stronger and more successful tourism industry in Canada.  The 1.8 million Canadians whose jobs depend on a thriving tourism sector are counting on it.   Bonne semaine to tourism.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Rogers.\n",
      "Mr. Churence Rogers (BonavistaBurinTrinity, Lib.): Mr. Chair, Monday was a sad day in my riding of BonavistaBurinTrinity, and indeed our entire province. Please join me as I offer sincere condolences to the families of the men who lost their lives at sea in a tragic accident off the coast of St. Lawrence in Placentia Bay.  Ed Norman, his son Scott Norman and his nephew Jody Norman all tragically lost their lives while fishing for crab this past Monday. A fourth man, family friend Isaac Kettle, was also with them. After a courageous search mission by Canadian Coast Guard auxiliary members and the Department of National Defence and Provincial Airlines, he is unfortunately still missing. We grieve with the entire town of St. Lawrence as they mourn this tragic loss of life. Mr. Chair, I am sure the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador, this parliamentary family and Canadians from coast to coast to coast join me in thinking of these men, along with their friends and families, during this difficult time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr.Simard.\n",
      "Mr. Mario Simard (Jonquire, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I would like to speak to you today about a solid man who unfortunately passed away on May25. We were greatly saddened to learn about the death of FrancisDufour. This builder of Quebec's political history drew his last breath at the age of91, late Sunday night. Mr.Dufour was the archetypal proud representative of my region who spent his entire life in Jonquire. He first became involved in the Alcan employee's union in Arvida, then continued his civic involvement at the municipal level as mayor, then in the Quebec National Assembly as the member for Jonquire. He will be remembered as a man with deep ties to his community, a man of integrity, a people person, who dedicated himself to serving citizens and advancing the independence movement in Quebec. On behalf of the people of the riding of Jonquire and all the people of Quebec, I offer my most sincere condolences to FrancisDufour's family and loved ones. Thank you.\n",
      "The Chair: We are continuing with MartinezFerrada.\n",
      "Ms. Soraya Martinez Ferrada (Hochelaga, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. The pandemic has greatly affected Montreal East, particularly the riding of Hochelaga, which I represent. Today, I'd like to recognize the exceptional work of all the volunteers and organizations in Hochelaga that are helping the more vulnerable populations, including Anonyme, CAP St-Barnab, CARE Montral, the Cuisine collective Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, Bouffe Action, the Centre Communautaire Hochelaga, Chic Resto Pop, Jojo Dpannage, Groupe d'Entraide de Mercier-Ouest and many others. I'd like to acknowledge the commitment of the merchants who have rolled up their sleeves, including the Coop Couturires Pop, to make masks. I'd especially like to recognize essential workers, especially attendants. Allow me to offer our condolences to the loved ones of the attendants who have lost their lives to protect ours. The citizens of Hochelaga are resilient and unified. I am proud to rise in the House to salute them.\n",
      "The Chair: The next presentation will be by Mr. Cumming.\n",
      "Mr. James Cumming (Edmonton Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise today to pay tribute to a great Albertan and former parliamentarian, Louise Feltham, who passed away this Monday after a lengthy battle with cancer. Louise was an entrepreneur, a public servant and a force of nature. She inspired the family motto How hard can it be? by creating communities and building several homes in her lifetime. In all that she did, Louise broke glass ceilings. Her many firsts included being the first woman to serve as a councillor in rural Alberta, the first female reeve in rural Alberta and the first woman born in Newfoundland to serve in this chamber. She was the MP for Wild Rose from 1988 to 1993. Her son Glenn served as the president of NAIT when I chaired the board. My thoughts and sympathies are with him, his wife Tammi and the rest of their family for this great loss. Her parliamentary family mourns with you today.   Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Bagnell.\n",
      "Hon. Larry Bagnell (Yukon, Lib.): Mr. Chair, it is a great honour to speak to the House of Commons today from Whitehorse, Yukon, here on the traditional territory of the Kwanlin Dn First Nation and the Ta'an Kwch'n Council. As a great historic Canadian event last week, Yukon became home to Canada's first university north of 60. Yukon University will provide Yukoners with educational opportunities closer to home, expand our research capabilities and expertise on the Arctic and climate change and allow those who want to study northern and first nations governance to do so in the north. I encourage all students living in the northern half of Canada to look at the many programs and degrees at Yukon University to continue their studiesin some cases this year, virtuallyby remaining in the north. I want to congratulate the staff of Yukon College, who spent the last decade working towards this transition, and especially the outgoing president, Karen Barnes. I wish her all the best in her retirement. Thank you, merci, mahsi cho and sga senl.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go on to Ms. Hutchings.\n",
      "Ms. Gudie Hutchings (Long Range Mountains, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, from the Long Range Mountains, I too want to send my condolences to my colleague, Mr. Rogers from BonavistaBurinTrinity, on the tragic loss in St. Lawrence. We're all communities that rely on the sea, and we understand the importance and the tragedy, and the hard work it is being fishers. However, today, colleagues, I want to mention, as my colleague from across the way said, that it's national tourism week, so please take the time to get out and thank the tourism and hospitality businesses in your ridings. Most businesses around the world were hit hard by COVID-19. The tourism economy was hit very hard, especially seasonal and rural operations and the 1.8 million people the industry employs. However, this industry knows how to work hard. They know how to partner. They know how to look after their employees and their guests. They will find new and innovative opportunities and experiences. They will build new business and they will continue to attract visitors. We know that the domestic and local markets will recover first. I know that the operators in my riding are getting ready just for that. It's exciting to speak with them about how they're working on their new normal and how it's going to be developed and implemented here in the Long Range Mountains. Remember too that many of our national parks are opening on June 1, so get out and explore the park in your backyard. I look forward to working with the Tourism Industry Association of Canada, Destination Canada and my colleagues so that when we turn the corner of this pandemic, we are ready to rebuild a stronger tourism economy. Friends, go out and discover the tourism treasures in your province. They need your support. Tourism matters. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Gourde, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Jacques Gourde (LvisLotbinire, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Some people were already too few in number and already burdened with heavy responsibilities even before the COVID-19 crisis occurred. I would like to take this opportunity to express my admiration for the dedication of all the essential workers who stepped up in the riding of LvisLotbinire. This crisis has created pressing needs and unprecedented emergencies. Fine men and women committed to human dignity, volunteers, retirees, and you, who have wisely agreed to stay home, you have been part, to varying degrees, of this great equation to minimize the impact of the spread and avoid the worst. The snow has melted, the flowers have arrived. Many children are happy to be able to expend their energy again; our seniors are being cuddled, with great care, and our essential workers in the riding are still dedicated to the job. I say bravo, thank you and don't give up, even though you have already earned your place in heaven.\n",
      "The Chair: Ms.Bendayan.\n",
      "Ms. Rachel Bendayan (Outremont, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. My father, who is now retired, was a researcher for over 40years. He was involved in many medical discoveries. From his laboratories at the Univerist de Montral, he worked with CHUM and the Centre hospitalier universitaire SainteJustine, renowned institutions in Outremont. In Fact, Outremont is full of professors, scientists and researchers. They are Quebeckers, Canadians, who are at the forefront of discoveries that save and will save lives. Since coming into office, our government has reversed the funding cuts to medical research and has invested billions in science. Recently, we announced new funding for COVID-19 research for fundamental science and supports for academic researchers. We are working very hard to find a vaccine for COVID-19, and our fundamental research is helping us to understand viruses that we don't even know the names of yet. It is this work that will help us stay ahead of the curve rather than flatten it. To all our Canadian scientists and to my dad, thank you.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Alleslev.\n",
      "Ms. Leona Alleslev (AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill, CPC): Mr. Chair, citizens in my riding of AuroraOak RidgesRichmond Hill are showing incredible compassion as they help their families, their friends and even strangers during this difficult period. They are our community champions. The Aurora Chamber of Commerce and the Richmond Hill Board of Trade are helping businesses navigate in these difficult times. Organizations like The STEAM Project and Ganesha Temple are making and donating face masks for those in need. The Aurora Museum & Archives is collecting artifacts to document the pandemic for future generations. The Aurora Farmers' Market is bringing local farmers and businesses to us, but this year with one key person missing. Our community has lost one of the farmers' market's founders, our jam lady, Jan Freedman. We were deeply saddened by her passing, and she will be sorely missed. My sincere thanks to everyone who's working to ease the burdens on one another during this crisis. It's not easy, but this too will pass, and we will be stronger for it. In the meantime, stay safe, and let us all do our part to be community champions. Thank you.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Deltell, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr.Chair, we all understand that a crisis like the one the world is currently experiencing generates deficits. We also know that a deficit is a bill we send to our children and grandchildren, which is why it is important to be prudent, to make wise choices and, above all, to know where we are going. It's a shame that every time we ask the government a question, no minister can tell us how big the Canadian deficit is. We aren't the only ones concerned about the deficit and the government's lack of transparency. In fact, last Tuesday, at a parliamentary committee meeting in the Senate, the Parliamentary Budget Officer made some very scathing remarks about the government. He said he was concerned. He said that there had to be a deadline or we'd be heading toward taxation levels that haven't been seen in generations in this country because there is not a lot of ammunition left before we go into a large structural deficit. I'm not the one saying it; it's the Parliamentary Budget Officer. For weeks, almost every day, the Prime Minister has been announcing cash injections for Canadians. We agree with that. However, hundreds of billions of dollars are being spent without any idea of the deficit. That's why we're sounding the alarm and calling on the government to be careful. The Prime Minister needs to know that we can't play Santa Claus every day, because the bills in January come in fast, and they are high.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Garrison.\n",
      "Mr. Randall Garrison (EsquimaltSaanichSooke, NDP): Mr. Chair, making sure science informs our health policies is critical during a pandemic. That's why I'm so disappointed that the Liberals have maintained the ban on blood donations from gay men and trans women. There is no science behind this ban. Not only does it reinforce homophobia and transphobia, it also reduces our blood supply at this critical time. Now we've learned that the ban will also result in rejecting plasma donors, when plasma is so critical in emerging COVID-19 research and treatment. More than 17 countries, including Argentina, Italy and Spain, have no deferral period for men who have sex with men. They know that behaviour-based screening provides better security for the blood supply than discriminatory identity-based rules. I have asked the minister many times to lift the gay blood ban and I do so again today, but today I also call on the family and friends of gay men and trans women to step up now and donate blood in place of those of us who cannot. When it comes to blood donations, we really should all be in this together.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Desilets, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivire-des-Mille-les, BQ): Good afternoon, Mr.Chair. I've missed you, by the way. On another note, the emergency wage subsidy was created for people who fear for their jobs or their businesses. It's for people who need it, not for millionaire political parties like the Liberals and Conservatives. In Rivire-des-Mille-les, as in many other ridings, we respond daily to businesses that don't have access to it. Unfortunately, there are people in our ridings who won't have the opportunity to hire staff this summer. There are businesses that are losing less than 30%of their revenues; they are losing29%. These businesses won't have access to it. Everywhere we look, there are businesses that are falling through the cracks. Meanwhile, the Liberals and the Conservatives are getting the wage subsidy to fund partisan activities. I repeat: it is to fund partisan activities. The Liberals and Conservatives don't even do it on the sly; they do it openly. These two parties have raised millions of dollars since January. Every dollar that's taken comes out of the taxpayers' pockets. It's the workers' money, not the political parties'. It's so embarrassing that it's shameful, disrespectful and ridiculous. The Liberals and the Conservatives have to pay that money back. I think that's obvious. For the Bloc Qubcois, its immeasurably clear. It's a question of ethics, morality and respect for citizens.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Schmale.\n",
      "Mr. Jamie Schmale (HaliburtonKawartha LakesBrock, CPC): Thank you, Chair. This week is Paramedic Services Week, and I would like to take a moment to thank these men and women who work tirelessly at the best of times to protect and save lives. Their efforts during COVID-19, like the services provided by many front-line workers in health care, such as personal support workers, doctors, nurses, janitorial and clerical staff, lab technicians and many others, have been extraordinary and truly beyond the call of duty. I hope this week all Canadians will take a moment to thank a paramedic or any front-line health care worker in their community for the amazing services they have been called upon to perform and will continue to provide in the challenging days ahead. Chair, I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention another unfortunate consequence of the current pandemic, the cancellation of the Kinmount Fair, a renowned event that has been running since 1870. This year the fair was to mark its 150th anniversary, but in true Kinmount spirit, this heartbreaking decision will not deter organizers from planning an even bigger and better event in 2021.\n",
      "The Chair: Now we will go to Ms. Dhillon.\n",
      "Ms. Anju Dhillon (DorvalLachineLaSalle, Lib.): Mr.Chair, I'd like to thank the members of the Canadian Armed Forces from the bottom of my heart for their invaluable assistance in the long-term care facilities. Their deployment came at a critical time, when many seniors desperately needed them. Through the observations and testimonies of these members, we saw the extent of the nightmare that many seniors had endured for a long time. These are human beings who could not fend for themselves. They were treated with profound cruelty and carelessness. Among many other loathsome details, they were left to starve, were abused and lived in filth, their cries of anguish ignored. They were tormented and left in their agony. There is no excuse for this. No one ever deserves to be treated the way they were. I am talking about humanity, about compassion and mercy. It is up to each and every one of us to make sure no elderly person is ever hurt in this vile manner again. I take this moment to honour these victims.\n",
      "The Chair: Before moving on, I want to remind the hon. members that, as the rules state, statements by members should be 60 seconds. That's one minute. Usually there are a few extra seconds, which doesn't matter, but some of them have gone quite a bit over time, so starting Monday we'll be cutting them off at 60 seconds. I encourage everyone to practise them or take a look at them, and try to keep them within the 60 seconds so that we don't go over our allotted time.  We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. I would like to remind members to speak fairly slowly so that the interpreters can understand what they're saying. I know sometimes we get excited in the House and we speak a little quickly. Just be conscious of it. I'm sure it will be appreciated by the interpreters and those at home who are listening in, as then they can make out the important questions and answers that are being given in this chamber. We will go to our first question. We will begin with Mr. Barlow.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC): Thanks, Mr. Chair. The government has consistently worked to shut down Parliament and undermine personal sittings and has argued that the business of this country can be done by Zoom. However, for work of the G7 the Prime Minister said, theres no question that in-person meetings...are much more effective than even virtual meetings. By pushing to go virtual, is it the Prime Minister's goal to make Canada's Parliament less effective?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, it is absolutely not. In fact, I am pleased to be here in person meeting with members from across the country and pleased that our colleagues who live further away from Ottawa than I do have the opportunity to join us. Parliament plays an essential role in our democracy, and it's\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Barlow.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, that is exactly the point. This isn't Parliament; this is a committee meeting. We do not have Parliament. This is a virtual committee. A Saskatchewan producer called me and said that he tried to use the online AgriStability calculator. He said that most farmers can't use it, that in fact they can't put in their inventory changes. This means it will give them erroneous information. Why is the agriculture minister touting this lifeline for farmers when it doesn't actually work?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, the agricultural sector is critical to our country, and the questions some of us have been asking around food security have reminded us how lucky we are, as Canadians, to be living in an agricultural superpower. When it comes to the specific technical questions that farmers have, they should turn to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, who will be delighted to help.\nMr. John Barlow: Could the Deputy Prime Minister tell me how much it cost to develop this online AgriStability calculator?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: What I can say is that we are very mindful of and very grateful for the extremely\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Barlow.\nMr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, farmers have even hired accountants to try to navigate this shiny online calculator, but they've been told they would go broke before they received any money. Will the government admit that this is just a fig leaf before any actual assistance will come to Canadian farmers?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, very many farmers, and certainly many of the farmers of my acquaintance, have worked with accountants for a very long time. Farmers are sophisticated business people who deal in the futures markets every day. They run hugely important businesses\n",
      "The Chair: We will go back to Mr. Barlow.\nMr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, it's that kind of condescension that is so frustrating to Canadian farmers. They shouldn't have to hire an accountant to figure out an assistance program. The last time I questioned the Prime Minister and the minister about the secret carbon tax data, they said that only part of it was secret and that the rest of it would be given to the House. I have yet to receive it. Will that be tabled today, in both official languages, to justify to Canadian farmers why the government has increased the carbon tax in the midst of a pandemic?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, what is condescending is to behave as if farmers are not highly sophisticated businessmen. They hire economists. They hire agronomists. They are at the cutting edge. I am proud of the sophistication of Canadian farmers, and I'm proud of the support we offer them.  Some honourable members: Oh, oh!\nThe Chair: I want to remind the honourable members that the background noise and the heckling really make it difficult for the members who are tuning in via Zoom. I just want to make sure they're aware of what they're doing to our colleagues who are online. We will go back to Mr. Barlow.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow: Mr. Chair, for 64 days the finance minister has failed to deliver on his promise to assist Canada's energy sector. Small oil and gas companies still can't qualify for BDC loans, and last week's announcement for large employers, in my opinion, was nothing of exploitive. If the government doesn't fulfill its promise to provide support for the energy sector, it is in turn supporting unethically sourced foreign oil and costing good reliable Canadian jobs. After 64 days, when will the credit options be available to Canada's small and medium-sized energy companies?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I agree with the member opposite about one thing: The energy sector and energy workers are absolutely essential to our economy, and we support them. One of the things I am most proud of is the $1.7 billion our government has committed to cleaning up orphan wells. That money today has created jobs in Alberta, B.C. and Saskatchewan. People are working because of it, and they are cleaning up their communities thanks to that support.\nThe Chair: Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr.Chair, I'll try not to spend too much time. Will the Liberal Party of Canada pay back the money it took from the wage subsidy program, yes or no?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, the purpose of the wage subsidy is to support workers, help them keep their jobs and keep them connected to their workplace\nThe Chair: Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: Mr.Chair, I'll take that as a no. In my riding, Trillium Media owns several weeklies. The company doesn't qualify for the wage subsidy because it has suffered losses of28% instead of30%. The historic village of Val-Jalbert is in the same situation. Does the Liberal Party of Canada consider itself to be in greater financial difficulty than the historic village of Val-Jalbert and Trillium Media?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, allow me to remind the hon. member opposite what we're doing to support Canadians: more than 8million Canadians have received the Canada emergency response benefit. In addition, 635,000businesses have received loans through the Canada emergency business account.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: Mr.Chair, I'll take that as a yes. Does my hon. colleague take into account the fact that the billions of dollars that are currently being handed out come from taxpayers' pockets? It even comes from the pockets of people who have lost their jobs and who pay taxes when they go to the corner store. On the other side of the House, is it considered justified for multi-million dollar parties to finance themselves with public funds, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I would like to continue by reminding my colleague opposite what our government is doing today to support Canadians and Quebeckers: 293applications for the Canada emergency wage subsidy have been approved. Over 2million Canadians today have\nThe Chair: Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: Mr.Chair, I'll take that as a yes. It's fantastic! The money that the Liberals are going to get from the wage subsidy is going to go directly into their election kitty. When they go to get their election expenses reimbursed, they're going to get 60%of that money back. So they'll have made the wage subsidy work for them. The businesses that'll have access to it won't, but the political parties will. Doesn't that contravene the Canada Elections Act, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, our programs don't discriminate. They're there to help all workers, to help all Canadians, to help all Quebeckers. The hon. member talked about companies and sectors that need more help. We agree with that. We think we all need to work together to continue to help Canadians and Quebeckers\nThe Chair: Order. We are returning to Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: I don't know how to take it this time. I didn't get it all. I think it's necessary to stop, eject and throw the tape out, and provide an honest answer to the questions we ask. Can my colleague across the way answer a very simple question? Are their employees going to be used for political fundraising and so, once again, make the generous wage subsidy they receive work for them, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I want to point out something important when we talk about our work and our economy. The important thing is that we have put in place unprecedented economic measures that are absolutely urgent and necessary. That's what we'll continue to do.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: Mr.Chair, we've already seen a Duceppe who denounces the use of federal programs by the Liberal Party for the Liberal Party. Can my hon. colleague tell me if she's able to look the entrepreneurs in her riding in the eye and tell them that they don't deserve the wage subsidy, because their loss of income is only28% or29%, while her party is dipping into the cookie jar, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I am absolutely willing to look into the eyes of the entrepreneurs and workers in my riding because they know that our government is doing a lot to help Canadians in this historic crisis. Our economic support program is the largest program in Canada's history\nThe Chair: We will now continue with Mr. Singh.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you, Mr.Chair. The Canadian Armed Forces report showed the relationship between equipment costs and the lack of care for our seniors. Will the government admit today that there is no room for profit in the care of our seniors?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, that's a very important question, and I would like to thank the member for asking it. I think this is a historic week. All Canadians have seen what is happening in Ontario and Quebec. We\nThe Chair: Order. We'll go back to Mr.Singh.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, experts and advocates have all pointed out that in the for-profit model of care for seniors, there is more emphasis on the bottom line than on care for seniors. Will the Liberal government admit that there is no place for profit when it comes to the care of our seniors?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I want to start by saying one thing, and that is to publicly thank, in this House, Brigadier-General Conrad Mialkowski and his team for compiling the assessment that they did of long-term care homes in Ontario. They acted with courage. They acted with compassion. What they did is historic, and we all need to\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: The Canadian Forces, of course, always deserve our thanks. However, they don't need our thanks right now; they need to see some action on what they have pointed out. The government owns Revera, the second-largest long-term care provider in Canada. It's for profit, and it's facing a $50-million lawsuit for negligence. What is the government doing to protect seniors in the long-term care homes that they own?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I agree with the member opposite that after what we have learned this week, all options must be on the table when it comes to how care for our elders will be provided in Canada in the future. I think it is clear to us all that root-and-branch reform is necessary. We need to act with speed but not haste, and work with our provincial partners.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: If all the options are on the table, will the Liberal government commit to removing profit from long-term care, particularly in the Revera long-term care homes, the second-largest number in Canada, which the government owns? Will it commit to removing profit from long-term care?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: What we will commit to doand I hope with the support of all members of this Houseis work very carefully and also very urgently in close co-operation with our provincial partners, under whose jurisdiction this falls, to ensure that these heart-wrenching reports mean that as a country we turn the page\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Singh.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, Revera is a Crown corporation owned by the government, so let's not hear excuses. Is the government doing anything to ensure that seniors are cared for? Is it providing for robust inspections, yes or no?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I want to clarify one point in the member's question. Canadian Crown corporations are not Liberal, not Conservative and not partisan. One of the strengths of Canada is that we have non-partisan government institutions, and they serve us extremely well. Our\nThe Chair: We will now go to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, right now the current government is responsible for Revera. It is a Crown corporation. Will the government commit to ensuring there is no profit anymore in Revera? As we've seen, it is facing a $50-million lawsuit, and there's been horrible negligence.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, as I said at the outset, the ownership structure of long-term care facilities needs to be on the table. Everything does. I also want to emphasize how important it is for us to do what we have been doing, which is to work very closely with the provinces, under whose jurisdiction this falls. In just the past 24 hours, I have spoken with Premier Ford, Premier Horgan and Premier Moe, and our conversation included long-term care facilities.\nThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Vecchio.\n",
      "Mrs. Karen Vecchio (ElginMiddlesexLondon, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today I join critics from the NDP, the Bloc and the Green Party who deal with women's issues and gender equality to ask where the $75 million toward sexual exploitation and human trafficking has gone. Last week organizations had to close their doors and the programs that help vulnerable women and girls, so the simple question is this: Where is the money?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Mr. Chair, let me begin by thanking the member for that very important question. I agree that human trafficking, which is a crime of coercion and exploitation, is unacceptable, and we have to ensure that we provide the supports necessary to the victims of this crime. As the member knows, we have launched a new, comprehensive national strategy to combat human trafficking, and we've incorporated a new pillar in that strategy of empowerment to ensure that the focus\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Vecchio.\n",
      "Mrs. Karen Vecchio: With all due respect, it's great that we have a strategy, but when money is not going to the doors of these organizations that provide these services, a strategy is nothing. It's all talk and no action. Where's the money?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef (Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Rural Economic Development): Mr. Chair, let me pick up where my honourable colleague left off by acknowledging that trafficking is a heinous crime and that hundreds of organizations across the country are working to solve the challenges that come with human trafficking. I remind my honourable colleague that hundreds of organizations have received supports, and we will have more to announce to further support\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Vecchio.\nMrs. Karen Vecchio: It's so very simple. What should we tell the young women and girls looking for these supports right now? What is the answer from the government?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: Mr. Chair, no one should have to live a life with violence, whether it's sexual, physical, financial or emotional, and that the government of Canada\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Vecchio.\nMrs. Karen Vecchio: Thank you very much. Yesterday I happened to be part of the health committee, and the Battered Women's Support Services representative was there as a witness. She shared with me that the organizations that she is associated with, over 500 organizations that deal with sexual assault and shelters, did not receive funding. Can you explain why?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: Mr. Chair, I want to thank Angela and the team at the Battered Women's Support Services. They are receiving funds through Feminists Deliver, but there are hundreds of organizations that will receive additional funds to provide the critical care that they need to support front lines and the most vulnerable in their communities, and we will have more to say soon.\nMrs. Karen Vecchio: Mr. Chair, we know that calls to centres like Battered Women's Support Services have gone up by 300 times, so this is a huge concern I have. What made this group of assault services and shelters ineligible?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: Mr. Chair, my colleague is putting words in my mouth. As I said, hundreds of organizations like the Battered Women's Support Services are going to be receiving funds from the federal government in the coming days. We thank them for their work and we will have more to say very soon.\nMrs. Karen Vecchio: Mr. Chair, the need is now. For instance, at London Abused Women's Centre, calls are up by 45%. I've heard from communities where they've gone up 200%. As I said, yesterday I heard 300%. The money is needed now. Where is the money for this program?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: Mr. Chair, some organizations are seeing demands up as high as 400% with their capacity limited by 400%. We've centres and women's shelters, and 700 have received funds, with more to come soon. I appreciate that this Parliament includes consensus among all colleagues that feminism and supporting women\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Vecchio.\n",
      "Mrs. Karen Vecchio: If we're talking about being a feminist government, I have one single question. Yesterday the minister was not willing to answer the question, so I will ask the Minister for Women and Gender Equality. How can a feminist government support the Wet'suwet'en First Nation women whose titles were stripped from them?\nHon. Maryam Monsef: Mr. Chair, it sounds like my honourable colleague wants to compare their record on advancing equality with ours. We are happy to do that, and the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations has been working very hard to move this historic agreement forward.\n",
      "Mrs. Karen Vecchio: These women have lost their titles, and the decisions were made with the hereditary chiefs and not the elected chiefs. Why is this government not standing up for these women hereditary chiefs who were stripped of their titles?\nHon. Carolyn Bennett (Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations): Mr. Chair, I think the honourable member knows that the route to self-determination is to have first nations, Inuit, and Mtis determine their own governance and abide by their own laws. Right now the Wet'suwet'en nation is in that process of determining what kind of governance they would like.\nThe Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Sweet.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet (FlamboroughGlanbrook, CPC): Thank you, Chair. The Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act has passed both houses of Congress in the United States and is now on the way to the Oval Office for signature. What is Canada's position on this Muslim minority being jailed and re-educated by the Communist Party of China?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, we are deeply concerned by the human rights situation faced by the Uighurs and other minorities in China. This is an issue our government has raised directly with the Chinese. Canada has also repeatedly voiced its concerns at the UN Human Rights Council. We will continue to call on\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Sweet.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet: The Burmese government is another being exploited by the CPC. Their Muslim minority was driven out and now languishes in Bangladesh, which is a commonwealth partner in the midst of this global pandemic. What will Canada do to answer the injustice done to the Rohingya?\nHon. Mary Ng: Canada will always stand with human rights. Canada has repeatedly voiced its concerns with the UN Human Rights Council. We will continue to call on the Chinese government to ensure that human rights of all of its people, including the freedom of religion, are fully respected.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet: Yesterday the rubber-stamp National People's Congress passed the national security bill undermining Hong Kong's autonomy and strengthening a grip of the Communist Party of China. Will the Prime Minister condemn this law?\nHon. Mary Ng: Canada, with our international partners in the U.S., Australia and the U.K., made a joint statement in which we are expressing our deep concern regarding China's imposition of a new security law for Hong Kong.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet: Canada has an admirable history of doing the right thing and helping when the situation is bleak. The Suez Canal, Cyprus, the fall of apartheid, child and maternal health in Africa, and Afghanistan are examples in my lifetime of how Canada has weighed in significantly. Why is the government letting down Hong Kong?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, with hundreds of thousands of Canadians living in Hong Kong, we have a vested interest in Hong Kong's stability and prosperity, the foundations of which are Hong Kong's relative autonomy and basic freedoms. Canada will always support and promote freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedoms of the press around the world.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet: I think the 300,000 Canadians who are in Hong Kong want a little bit more than interest from the government. They'd like some action. What exactly is the government going to do to help those 300,000 Canadians who are in the breach between democracy and tyranny now?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, Canada has expressed deep concern regarding China's imposition of the new security law for Hong Kong. The proposed law would undermine the one country, two systems framework. We are going to continue to support and promote freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of the press around the world.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet: Mr. Chair, I have deep concern. After being fired at with pepper bullets and tear gas yesterday, 300 students were arrested in Hong Kong while peacefully protesting. Where is the outrage from this government with regard to what the CPC is doing in Hong Kong?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, as we have said, we are deeply concerned about the arrests of political figures and about the law that has been imposed on Hong Kong. As we have said, Canada will always stand up and support freedom of speech and freedom of expression.\n",
      "Mr. David Sweet: Mr. Chair, I'm going to give the minister another opportunity to answer the third question that I asked. Yesterday, the rubber-stamp National People's Congress passed the national security bill, undermining Hong Kong's autonomy and strengthening the iron grip of the Chinese Communist Party. Will this government condemn that law today?\nHon. Mary Ng: Canada will continue to support Hong Kong's high degree of autonomy and freedoms under the Basic Law and the one country, two systems framework. Canada and our international partners, with the U.S., Australia and the U.K., have made a joint statement deeply expressing our concern regarding China's imposition of a new security law for Hong Kong.\n",
      "The Chair: The floor goes to Mr.Lvis.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair.  Some hon. members: Ha, ha!  Hon. Steven Blaney: I am pleased to represent the city of Lvis, because it is a privilege, Mr.Chair. It is the city where Alphonse Desjardins, who spearheaded the largest financial cooperative movement, was born. I hope you will not take that away from my time. My question is for the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion. On April8, the minister announced measures for the Canada summer jobs program. We thought it was to improve the program, but can the minister confirm that the budget remained the same between April7 and9?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion): Mr. Chair, I can confirm that we have increased the wage subsidies for Canada student jobs. We have added flexibilities, including the ability to have part-time work and the ability to have the jobs extended until February of next year. That said, the budget was not changed. It remains at 70,000 job placements for 70,000 students, with 100% of them being subsidized at 100%.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: The minister confirms that the budget remains the same, but that by subsidizing each job more, they are reducing the number of jobs in the midst of the pandemic. Why reduce the number of jobs offered by our businesses in the midst of the pandemic, when our young people want to work?\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, I can assure the member, all members and all Canadians that despite the fact that he's singling out the Canada summer jobs program, we also created an additional 76,000 jobs through our youth employment and skills strategy, with an additional 40,000 placements for students. I can assure the member that we are\n",
      "The Chair: The floor goes to Mr.Blaney once again.\nHon. Steven Blaney: How many jobs are vacant right now? The program is lagging behind compared to other years. Why, and how is it that there is still money to be invested in our businesses to create summer jobs?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, we are not lagging behind whatsoever. We created flexibilities in Canada summer jobs so that we can assuredly fill all of these 70,000 positions. We are rolling them out in waves. There are 45,000 jobs up on our job bank. I can assure young Canadians that there is work for them there, and I encourage them to check out the job bank.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: The minister confirms that there are delays in the midst of the pandemic, when the university year is over and businesses are waiting to hire young people. Why refuse to create additional jobs this year under the Canada summer jobs program, when businesses need them to adjust to the pandemic?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, I can assure you that we are not refusing to create any additional jobs. We've increased the number of jobs funded through our government's youth programs by over 100%. There are a number of jobs. We've added flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to maximize that program in ways that it never would have been maximized had we not done this. I can assure the member opposite that we are doing our utmost to make sure that young people have good-quality job experiences this summer.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: When the minister says maximize, she is actually saying that there are fewer jobs this year for young people because the budget has remained the same, but that each position is funded more. My question is very simple: why not fund more jobs through the Canada summer jobs program instead of having open-ended programs like the Canada emergency student benefit, which does not allow young people to get work experience? We need young people and they want to work.\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: I agree, absolutely, that we need young people to work this summer. That's why we're creating a number of opportunities through a number of programs, Mr. Chair. Canada summer jobs is being maxed out, and that's a good thing, because we've increased the number of jobs and added an additional 76,000 jobs. I can assure the member that we're creating so many jobs, and it's so exciting for our young people.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: The Canada emergency student benefit does not encourage young people to go to work, and employers have difficulty hiring them. Yet they had applied for the Canada summer jobs program. Why not enhance the Canada summer jobs program?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, I'm sure the member opposite is not implying that offering young people income support that they take out of necessity will make them not want to work. Young people want to work. They want to serve in their communities. That's why we're creating these additional jobs beyond the Canada summer jobs program. That's why we've increased the flexibilities in the Canada summer jobs program. It's so we can maximize these programs.\nThe Chair: We'll go to Ms. Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu (SarniaLambton, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yesterday my colleague asked the Minister of Public Safety a question, and he did not get a good answer. Why are asylum seekers being allowed to cross the closed border and reunify with their families when Canadians are not being allowed to reunify with their counterparts in the U.S.?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, to correct an error that was just repeated, we have put in rules that have excluded people from non-essential travel. We currently have an agreement with the United States that people crossing our border irregularly are being directed back to the United States. We've put in protection for those individuals to uphold our international obligations. We're continuing to deal with the\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Mr. Chair, I have in my riding a pregnant woman who is having her first child. The father of the baby is not being allowed to come over. I have another citizen who's married to an American woman who needs medical services every three weeks who is not being allowed to go over and come back. I also have parents who have not seen their children in months because they're not allowing custody arrangements between Canadians and Americans to continue. Will the minister create exemptions to allow the reunification of these Canadians with their family?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I thank the member for an important question. It is never our intention to keep families apart. At the same time, we are exercising all due diligence to ensure that we prevent non-essential travel to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We've been working very hard to ensure that we have a solution for those individuals who need and want to reunite with their families. We will have further information on that as soon as we're able to resolve that difficulty.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Mr. Chair, the Minister of Agriculture has known there's been a capacity issue on cattle processing for more than a year and has done nothing. We don't have a BSE exemption that would allow us to use American processors, and there's been no incentive to create additional capacity to process. How bad does it have to get for the minister to act?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): We have done a great deal for the meat sector lately. We have invested $100million in the beef and pork sectors through the AgriRecovery program. That's a significant increase, because in the last few years the program has provided between $7million and $15million only. That is significant. We have also invested $77.5million to improve the capacity of processors\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: It still hasn't solved the problem. That's not a beef burger; that's a nothing burger. What is the minister going to do to help the cattle farmers who are struggling, especially in this pandemic?\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, once again, we have helped the meat sector through the AgriRecovery program and we have put in place a $77.5million program to help meat processors deal with the situation and reorganize their work environment in a way that is safe for workers\nThe Chair: We will go back to Ms. Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: It's not enough for the farmers in my area. To the Minister of National Revenue, I've had complaints from seniors in my riding that paper tax filings are not being processed. They're sitting on desks because people are not going in to the office. When will we begin to process those paper tax filings so seniors can get the refunds they need?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue): Mr.Chair, we consider this to be a difficult situation for Canadians, and our government will do everything it can to support them. I can confirm that the CRA is still processing paper returns, but because of the reduced staff on site and the physical distancing, Canadians can expect delays. We regret the inconvenience this causes for those who file their returns on paper\nThe Chair: We will go back to Ms.Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Andranne Larouche (Shefford, BQ): Mr.Chair, I have a point of order. The sound is not very good. This happens when ministers respond in the House.\nThe Chair: We will talk to the technicians about that. I'm not sure whether there's anything we can do now, but we'll see if we can sort it out for the next meeting. It will certainly be fixed by next Monday. In the meantime, we will do our best. Thank you very much for your comment. We go back to Ms. Gladu.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Mr. Chair, obviously with COVID, many people are struggling with the loss of loved ones and their grief. The Canadian Grief Alliance has submitted a proposal looking for a very modest sum of funding from the government to extend their virtual grief counselling. Can the Minister of Health let us know if that funding has been approved?\nHon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): I'm not aware of that specific proposal, but I commit to asking my officials to bring it forward to me and I will take a look.\nThe Chair: Ms. Gladu, you have time for a 15-second question.\n",
      "Ms. Marilyn Gladu: Many are struggling with mental health in this pandemic. Can the Minister of Health tell us what she is doing to increase the capacity to help people who are suffering?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: I know I don't have much time, but let me repeat our infomercial to Canadians. They should visit Wellness Together Canada, the portal that will provide access for Canadians to a variety of mental health supports, including connection to professionals.\nThe Chair: Mr.Champoux, you have the floor. I'm sorry, Mr.Champoux; you are next. Mr.Waugh now has the floor. Oh, it's Mr. Waugh. My apologies.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Major events and mass gatherings being really out of the conversation for the foreseeable future, many event venues right now, such as concert halls and fairgrounds, are looking at the possibility of going more than a year without any revenue. Many are owned or managed by non-profit organizations. I can think of many in my riding, such as the Saskatoon Fringe Festival, Shakespeare on the Saskatchewan, the jazz festival, the folk festival, along with WDM and the Aviation Museum. Can the Minister of Canadian Heritage tell us what support has been made available to date to these organizations that are left up in the air?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (LaurierSainte-Marie, Lib.): As the member knows, we have done a number of things in the past weeks to help the arts and culture sector. We could talk about the Canadian emergency response benefit, or the wage subsidy. We have provided advance help to a number of organizations from Canadian Heritage programs or the Canada Council for the Arts on top of the $500-million program, which has started to be deployed and will continue to be deployed in the coming weeks specifically for these types of organizations.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: Many media organizations are struggling. The reality only makes the allegations of predatory behaviour being levied against the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation even more disturbing. I asked the minister on May 7 about these allegations, and he said he had not been informed of the allegations but would look into them. We can't afford to have a Crown corporation using its status to try to wipe out its competitors in this country. Has the minister begun the investigation into the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, and does he have any information that he can share with us here today?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: As the member said, these are allegations, and as you well know, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is an independent body. It's not controlled by the Minister of Canadian Heritage or the government.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: Well, these allegations were in the National Post on April 22. I brought this up to you on May 7 when I talked virtually. Even more interesting, Mr. Chair, is that these allegations against the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation came from an organization in the minister's own province of Quebec, so can the minister take action to address any predatory behaviour on behalf of the CBC, or can the government's friends at the CBC simply get away with anything?\nHon. Steven Guilbeault: Allegations are allegations, whether they are made in Quebec, Ontario or Alberta. As I said, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is an independent organization.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: When I last rose, on May 7, the committee responsible for the government's massive $595-million media bailout package had not met. It is now three weeks later. Has the committee met? If yes, when can the media organizationsand I hear there are only 29 publishersexpect the support promised? If it hasn't met, when is it going to meet?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: As the member is well aware, this program is a tax-break program. In order for organizations to qualify, they had to file their income tax forms, which they have done over the last few weeks. The program is in place, and we are confidant that media organizations will receive the money by the end of the summer.\nThe Chair: Mr. Waugh, go ahead with a 20-second question, hopefully.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: There was $30 million rolled out to media organizations, some 1,400 organizations. Yesterday Postmedia announced another 40 layoffs. Has the $30 million been distributed so far in this country to all 1,400 media organizations?\nThe Chair: Honourable minister, go ahead for 20 seconds or less, please.\nHon. Steven Guilbeault: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would be happy to provide the list of those 1,400 media organizations that have received funding through that ad campaign.\nThe Chair: We will continue with Mr.Champoux. You have the floor, Mr.Champoux.\n",
      "Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ): Mr.Chair, I'm feeling generous today, and I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Pierre-BoucherLesPatriotesVerchres.  At the beginning of the crisis, the government called on entrepreneurs in Quebec and Canada, inviting them to set an example in the situation we are experiencing. Many of them turned to the supplemental unemployment benefit plan to maintain the employment relationship and to preserve some security, enabling their employees to get through this difficult period with more peace of mind. However, on May22, despite the fact that these entrepreneurs had made sure that the SUB program would still be in place when the CERB was introduced, they were surprised. Employees were told at that time that they would have to repay the CERB because of the alleged gains they had made under the SUB program. At SOPREMA, one of the large employers in the Drummondville region, 150employees are affected. At Bridgestone, in Joliette, 1,100employees are affected by this decision. At Goodyear, in Valleyfield, 150employees are affected, and there are dozens more. Does the minister intend to correct this mistake so that employers who are able and willing to do so can treat their employees better during this difficult period?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: When we put in place the Canada emergency response benefit, the underlying goal was to make sure that every worker who needed it had access to income support as they were losing their employment for COVID reasons. We understood that meant some workers would not have access moving forward, although let me clarify that SUB plans that existed prior to March 15 are definitely in place. We consider the fact that workers have access to $1,000 a month in addition to CERBand we've spoken with employers about thisto permit employers to assist their employees in an equitable way.\nThe Chair: Mr.Champoux, you have 15seconds for your question.\n",
      "Mr. Martin Champoux: Mr.Chair, employers received absolutely no news from the government before this measure was implemented, despite the fact that they were assured that this measure would be transferred to the CERB. That's not an answer when those folks acted honestly and in good faith. They feel cheated, and rightly so. Does the government intend to fix this mistake, which would simply be the right thing to do?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, I can assure the member opposite that the SUB plans that were in place prior to March 15 are indeed in place now. In addition, employees who are now on the CERB as an alternative have access to $1,000 of income in addition to their CERB. We are working with employers to perhaps provide the $1,000 in lieu of the SUB plans.\nThe Chair: We will continue with you, Mr.Barsalou-Duval.\n",
      "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval (Pierre-BoucherLes PatriotesVerchres, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. On April27, Option consommateurs sent a letter to the Minister of Transport to warn him that the airlines' refusal to reimburse their customers for cancelled flights was contrary to Quebec's laws. What is the minister going to do to put an end to this situation?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport): Mr.Chair, I sympathize with the people who would have preferred to get a refund, and I understand their frustration. It is not an ideal situation. The airlines are going through a very difficult time right now. If they were forced to refund their customers immediately, many of them would go bankrupt.\n",
      "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval: Mr.Chair, the minister sounds like a broken record. A few hours ago, the following motion was passed unanimously: THAT the National Assembly ask the Government of Canada to order airlines and other carriers under federal jurisdiction to allow customers whose trips have been cancelled because of the current pandemic to obtain a refund. What will the Minister of Transport tell the National Assembly of Quebec?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr.Chair, as my hon.colleague knows, the Canadian Transportation Agency has ruled on this issue and has ruled that, in the present circumstances and in a non-binding way, it is acceptable for airlines to offer credits for up to two years. In the case of Air Canada, the credit has no expiry date.\nThe Chair: Mr.Barsalou-Duval, you have about 15seconds for a question.\n",
      "Mr. Xavier Barsalou-Duval: Mr.Chair, I find it rather odd that the Minister of Transport and the Canadian Transportation Agency are telling the airlines that Quebec's regulations and laws are not important and that they can override them. It seems to me that this is a strange way to operate. Theoretically, under the famous Canadian Constitution, which they imposed on us, that is not how it should work. Can they uphold their own constitution?\nThe Chair: The hon. minister can answer in 15seconds or less, please.\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr.Chair, as my hon. colleague probably knows, the Canadian Transportation Agency is a quasi-judicial body that operates at arm's length from Transport Canada and the Government of Canada.\nThe Chair: We will now take a short break.  We're going to take a short break to allow employees supporting the meeting to switch in safety, including myself.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC)): We will now carry on with Mr. Baker for Etobicoke Centre.  Mr. Baker, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Yvan Baker (Etobicoke Centre, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing my time with the member for GlengarryPrescottRussell. My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, in Etobicoke Centre, we are mourning the loss of 42 residents to COVID-19 at the Eatonville Care Centre. This week, we received a disturbing report from the Canadian Armed Forces documenting appalling and completely unacceptable conditions in the Eatonville Care Centre in Etobicoke, Orchard Villa in Pickering, Altamont Care Community in Scarborough, Hawthorne Place in North York, and Holland Christian Homes Grace Manor in Brampton. It is beyond reprehensible that our seniors are being treated this way. As I said in the House of Commons on May 7, we need immediate action and comprehensive reform of long-term care. The four other MPs who represent the residents of these homes and I wrote to Premier Ford yesterday to urge him to appoint a third party manager to oversee all operations, to call a full public inquirybecause a government commission is not enoughand to work in partnership with the Government of Canada to establish enforceable national standards for long-term care homes across our country.  Minister, will you call on the Government of Ontario to establish a full public inquiry, and will you work with provincial governments to establish and implement enforceable national standards for long-term care homes across Canada so that our seniors from coast to coast to coast can receive the quality of care they deserve?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.  I thank the member for his very important question. I think all Canadians were horrified, shocked and saddened to hear about the conditions that elders were living in in those particular homes and that many seniors struggle with across the country. There is no question that we have to do better for our seniors.  I know the Prime Minister has been very vocal about the need to do more to support provinces and territories to provide better care for seniors, no matter where they live.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Baker, you have another 20 seconds or so if you can manage that.\nMr. Yvan Baker: Thank you. I'll pass on my time to the member for GlengarryPrescottRussell.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. Drouin, member for GlengarryPrescottRussell.\n",
      "Mr. Francis Drouin (GlengarryPrescottRussell, Lib.): Mr.Chair, we know that farmers across Canada have been going through some difficult times in recent months. In my riding, farmers are looking for labour and young people are looking for jobs. The Canada summer jobs program plays a vital role in meeting this demand. I was very pleased to hear that the government has enhanced the youth employment and skills strategy program to help create 700new jobs for young people in the agriculture sector. Can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food tell us when and how our farmers will be able to apply for this new program?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, in these unprecedented times, our producers are working that much harder to feed Canadians while facing challenges that are not always easy, particularly in terms of access to labour. To help them, this week, the Prime Minister announced an increase in the youth employment and skills strategy program to help young people be hired in the agricultural sector. This is a $9.2-million investment that will help to attract young Canadians between the ages of15 and30 and to provide them with an exceptional experience in the agricultural sector. I encourage all producers to apply through the Agriculture Canada website.\n",
      "Mr. Bruce Stanton: I think you finished, Mr.Drouin.  We'll move on now to Mr. Johns, CourtenayAlberni.\n",
      "Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP): Mr. Chair, I'll be splitting my time with the member for Winnipeg Centre. In early April, the NDP asked for a commercial rent abatement program so that tenants could apply for help instead of depending on their landlords, but the government chose to leave commercial tenants helpless if their landlord can't or does not want to apply. On Monday we wrote to ministers again, asking them to negotiate a nationwide moratorium on commercial rent evictions with the provinces and territories so that tenants can't be kicked out. Will the minister take action to ensure that no small business owner is evicted during COVID-19?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau (Toronto Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. We recognize the challenges that small business owners in particular, as well as landlords, are facing during the course of COVID-19. We have worked together with the provinces to come up with an approach that would provide an incentive for landlords to give a rent reduction to commercial tenants. We opened that as of Monday. Of course, we recognize that this is a jurisdiction of the provinces, so it will be up to the provinces to consider the next steps, if any, in this regard. We are looking toward seeing many landlords sign up for this. I would like to take this opportunity to encourage landlords to sign up for this, which not only gives them a sense of security but also their tenants.\n",
      "Mr. Gord Johns: That's a no, so the government is still failing small businesses. If small business owners can't make June rent, thousands will have to close permanently. If the government won't negotiate a moratorium, will it at least let tenants apply for the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program so they can get help with 50% of their rent?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Again, Mr. Chair, I think it's important that we have clarity of understanding of jurisdictions. We have worked with the provinces in this regard. The federal government is working through the CMHC to provide support to landlords, which is conditional on their working with their tenants, but of course, it is a provincial area of jurisdiction, so any further actions and any decisions on restricting evictions are in the provincial jurisdiction and not ones that the federal government is able to move forward on.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Ms. Gazan, Winnipeg Centre.\n",
      "Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Chair, they talk about wanting to support small businesses, but their failure to make rent support work is putting businesses out of business. When it comes to the rent for people's homes, the government didn't even try. Many people in my riding could not make rent on April 1 and May 1, and June 1 is coming up. When will the government act to ensure that families and individuals make their rent payments?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, for individuals, of course we've worked hard to provide support. Over eight million individuals are taking the Canada emergency response benefit. For businesses, of course, we've put in place not only the business account for small businesses but additional support through the wage subsidy program. We know that the rent approach is one that can have an important impact. I would encourage landlords to\nMs. Leah Gazan: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Gazan, just a moment. Go ahead on your point of order.\n",
      "Ms. Leah Gazan: I just want to remind my honourable colleague that his response is supposed to be within the same time period as the question I asked. It's just a friendly reminder.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): That is accurate. In fact, the minister was just coming up to the same amount of time it took for your question. I am monitoring that, and we will interrupt if one of the ministers responding goes more than just a short time over. In fact, we try to cut it off at the appropriate time, allowing a word or two perhaps to finish a phrase, and that's the extent of it. I'll watch that closely, the member can be assured. Let's go ahead then and finish up. You have another minute and 20 seconds to finish up, Ms. Gazan.\n",
      "Ms. Leah Gazan: Mr. Chair, Winnipeg Centre is the third-poorest riding in the country, and COVID-19 has put many of the residents in my riding on the verge of homelessness. Instead of bailing out its corporate buddies, when will this government provide proper rental assistance so that families and individuals do not end up on the streets?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development): Mr. Chair, we have provided support for families and individuals to maintain their ability to pay the rent. In addition to that, we have provided over $157.5 million directly to community entities for homelessness all across Canada .\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Gazan, you have about 40 seconds remaining.\nMs. Leah Gazan: Mr. Chair, adequate housing is a fundamental human right, especially in this time of crisis. How can the government not show leadership and provide the support that people need to afford their homes? Will this government provide support, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, once again, we have provided support to families and individuals so that they have the ability to pay their rent and pay for essential supplies and expenses. In addition to that, we have moved additional dollars, in the amount of $157.5 million, to the most vulnerable, including the homeless population in Canada.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now go to Ms. Harder from Lethbridge.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: As this pandemic began to spread, the government propagated China's talking points about how human-to-human transmission was impossible. Now, I'm sure that the minister regrets those comments. Does she acknowledge that they were misleading?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, the member opposite's continued lack of awareness of how science works is somewhat disconcerting. I'm sure she understands that this is a novel coronavirus that appeared on the scene in late December, and as the research community worldwide struggled to keep pace with understanding how the virus was adapting, the information changed. As such\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Ms. Harder.\nMs. Rachael Harder: I'm simply wondering if the minister would like to do the honourable thing and acknowledge that that information was misleading.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, since the very beginning, we have been advising Canadians that they need to protect themselves from the novel coronavirus. We have taken strong measures, as a country, to do so. We respect the professionals\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Ms. Harder.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: The minister also said that face masks weren't necessary, that they wouldn't help Canadians. Would she acknowledge that that was misleading?  An hon. member: Good question.\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, the party opposite, obviously, does not understand the way that research and science evolve. The member opposite is propagating information that's misleading. She is the one who is confusing Canadians.\nMs. Rachael Harder: Why is the health minister misleading the Canadian public?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, as the evidence changed about the novel coronavirus, as our amazing researchers gave us new evidence, we adapted to adjust our advice to Canadians.\nMs. Rachael Harder: Why is the minister not able to acknowledge that she fed the Canadian public misinformation?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, why is the member not able to understand that science evolves with new information?\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: Back in January when we started noticing other countries closing their borders to stop the spread of COVID-19, Conservatives asked the government if it would do the same. In response, the Prime Minister called us racist. Does the Prime Minister still consider those who called for the closure of borders racist?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, providing misleading information to Canadians is not appropriate. As the member opposite knows, we took strong measures at the border, as recommended by the international health regulations, and we were able to contain the virus for quite some time.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: I cannot agree with the minister more that providing misinformation is, in fact, incredibly wrong, which is why the government should simply apologize to the Canadian public for telling them that there was no emergency at our doorstep, that they didn't need to wear face masks, that we didn't need to close our borders, that human contact or contraction was impossible. Those are incredibly misleading statements. Why will the minister not just do the honourable thing and retract them and apologize to the Canadian public?  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I maintain that the member opposite does not understand that as new evidence comes forward, that as new advice comes forward.... Canadians understand that. I am unsure why she doesn't.\nMs. Rachael Harder: I understand that knowledge evolves. I'm just wondering if the minister will retract the statements that she made previously, now that she understands that they are misleading.\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I am so proud of Canadians for being able to adapt to new evidence and public health advice as it becomes clearer and clearer what kinds of actions can protect our health. I want to thank all Canadians for having trust in the public health officials across this country.\nMs. Rachael Harder: On February 3, Conservatives called on the government to treat this virus as a public health emergency and to take immediate action. Unfortunately, Minister Hajdu scolded Conservative MPs, stating that we were spreading misinformation and trying to sensationalize the risk of the virus. Would the minister like to apologize to the members opposite for that statement?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, very early on it was quite clear there were members of our community who were stigmatized by misinformation that was floating around in various circles in the Canadian community. We took strong action to assure those Canadians that we would be with them as we also fought the coronavirus in Canada.\nMs. Rachael Harder: Would the minister like to retract her statement that this side of the House somehow blew this up into something bigger than it is?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, as early as January 2, Dr. Tam was convening members of the Canadian medical community to ensure that we would have a robust Canadian response to an issue of potential concern. We have taken this virus seriously every step of the way.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: In truth, Mr. Chair, while the government has told the Canadian public that the virus was not something to be concerned about, that we didn't need to close the borders and that face masks weren't necessary, they were misleading the Canadian public. Now they are crowning themselves as the arbiters of truth, spending millions of dollars to censor what information is and is not available online. Would the minister like to respond to why she is misleading the Canadian public and then crowning her head with the ability to monitor\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're out of time. The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I want to thank our public health officials and medical community for their incredible work in ensuring that Canadians have accurate information about how best to protect themselves. We continue to work with the community and Canadians. Together we have managed to flatten the curve to date.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I invite the honourable member for MganticL'rable to take the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold (MganticL'rable, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. One million dollars is the cost of installing air conditioning for a number of rooms in a CHSLD; it is a new fire station; it is 200more student jobs for day camps in Quebec. With $1million, the Liberal government plans to give an annual bonus to the president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. Does the Minister of Infrastructure agree with the bank's board, which is being so generous to its president with Canadians' money?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities): Mr.Chair, I am very proud of what our government has done to invest in communities across the country. We are investing in infrastructure. We are building by investing in renewable energy, green infrastructure and public transit, including in the member's riding. That is what we will continue to do. I am very proud that Michael Sabia has decided to join the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We are going to continue our work.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold: Mr. Chair, could the infrastructure minister explain to Canadians how it is better to give $1 million in bonuses to the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank than to invest in roads, schools, hospitals and long-term care homes?\nHon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, I am very happy to explain to the member opposite that we are doing just that. Perhaps he isn't aware of our $33 billion infrastructure program in which we are working directly with the Government of Quebec to build infrastructure that's making a huge difference, including projects in the member's riding. We are going to continue doing that.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold: Mr.Chair, she is not answering the question at all. On April3, the previous president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank left his position for reasons that remain unclear. How much did he receive in bonuses for his years at the helm of the Canada Infrastructure Bank?\nHon. Catherine McKenna: Mr.Chair, the change of management at the Canada Infrastructure Bank marks a new phase in the development of the bank. We are working to build a modern, public infrastructure, to create jobs, and to make Canada more competitive internationally.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold: We are talking about the bonuses given to the president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. We have received no answer on that. What were the evaluation criteria that led to the decision that the former CEO had delivered a performance worthy of a bonus, when few, if any, projects were financed by the bank?\nHon. Catherine McKenna: Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the former CEO, Pierre Lavalle, for his contribution to the establishment of this new institution. I am very proud that Michael Sabia has joined the bank.  We will continue to work to build Canada and create good jobs.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold: How much did he receive in bonuses?\nHon. Catherine McKenna: The range of compensation for the CEO is set by the bank and is publicly available.\nMr. Luc Berthold: Did the minister approve the bonuses paid to the former president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank?\nHon. Catherine McKenna: As I have already said, the compensation range for the CEO is determined by the bank and is public knowledge because of the legislation\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Berthold, the floor is yours.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold: Thank you, Mr.Chair. If the new president stays in the position for five years, he could be entitled to a bonus totalling $4million, in addition to his salary of $3million. Does the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities consider that this is a good way to spend taxpayers' money?\nHon. Catherine McKenna: We have to build our country, create good short-term jobs, ensure that we have a cleaner future, invest in renewable energy and green infrastructure in order to build bridges, public transportation\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Berthold, the floor is yours.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Berthold: Mr. Chair, if the new CEO stays in office for five years, he will be entitled to a total potential bonus of $4 million, in addition to his salary of $3 million. Does the Minister of Infrastructure think this is a good way to spend taxpayers' money, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna: Mr. Chair, I'm very proud that we have Michael Sabia, who is now head of the Canada Infrastructure Bank as the board chair. We need to move forward in building infrastructure that's going to create jobs, including in the member's riding; that's going to help move us to a cleaner future; that's going to grow our economy and increase Canada's competitiveness. The bank is a key part of the investing in Canada plan\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now move to Mrs. Gray, KelownaLake Country.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray (KelownaLake Country, CPC): Mr. Chair, the COVID-19 pandemic has shown how important it is to be able to move our goods interprovincially. Christian Buhagiar of Supply Chain Canada called for the government to revisit interprovincial trade regulations to ensure we can quickly move production and distribution from one region to another during times of emergency. Will the government commit to immediately examine all our trade barriers that can affect interprovincial trade of essential goods due to COVID-19?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: I'd like to thank the member opposite for her excellent point. Our government is very committed to removing barriers to interprovincial trade. It's something that we have been working on with the premiers. Obviously the coronavirus has taken precedence in recent weeks, but it's a priority. It's the right thing to do.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, the federal government has a regulatory reconciliation table as part of the Canada free trade agreement, focusing on breaking down interprovincial trade barriers. Due to COVID-19, it has been announced that deadlines for all of these items may be delayed. What is the government doing to ensure there won't be delays on these items?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, it is absolutely right and appropriate for first ministers, who have been meeting every week for more than two months, to be focusing on the urgent threat posed by the coronavirus. However, I agree with the member opposite that we need to lift barriers to interprovincial trade. That's something we're committed to doing and to working on with the premiers.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, while many of these items were past due prior to the pandemic, two important items from the list that should be worked on now are meat inspection and food inspection. Considering serious issues from these industries during the pandemic, would the minister commit to restarting the work on at least these two items?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Thank you, Mr.Chair. I can assure you, as far as the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is concerned, that we are very open to that issue. Moreover, the authorities are front and centre in cases where there may be a food shortage in one region of the country or another.\nMrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, COVID-19 is adding huge pressures to our national supply chain. Those I speak with in the industry tell me they are beginning to see a backlog of goods. Does the government have a comprehensive plan to ensure the movement and resiliency of our national supply chain?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, since we are discussing the food supply chain, let me remind you that we are committed to spending $50million, specifically to buy surplus food and redistribute it, through the food bank network, to regions where the need is greatest.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, reports state that activists' rail blockades earlier this year cost the Canadian economy $275 million, and it took three to five days to catch up for every day that our transportation network was down. The supply chain industry just caught up, and then the pandemic hit, creating new issues and backlogs. We are hearing from those in the industry who are concerned about future blockades affecting essential goods getting across the country. Our railways are critical infrastructure. Will the government commit to immediately dismantling any potential future blockades?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister may reply.\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, I couldn't agree more with my colleague that it is important for our railways to be transporting all the goods that we produce in this country. I am in contact on a weekly basis with our major railways. Certain products are moving very well at the moment, including grain, potash and coal, but other goods haven't moved as quickly, because they have been affected by the pandemic. We are very vigilant with respect to moving our goods as efficiently as possible, whether it's by our railways, by trucks or by ships.\n",
      "Mrs. Tracy Gray: Mr. Chair, at the standing committee for industry this week, David Montpetit of the Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition stated that they believe shippers are going to face a container shortage over the next six months. He also stated that we could be facing labour and capacity shortages in our trucking industry. This could backlog essential goods interprovincially, including food and medicine, if the capacity isn't there. What steps is the government taking to address this problem?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, of course it's always important to have the capacity to move goods across this country. At the moment, our trains have the capacity to move goods across the country. With respect to trucking, we do have issues with respect to a lack of truckers for moving some of our goods across the country. This is a problem that has existed for some time, and we're working on it.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now move on to Mrs. Wagantall of YorktonMelville. Mrs. Wagantall, go ahead.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (YorktonMelville, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Young and new farmers are struggling, as they don't have enough equity built up to borrow money to survive these difficult times. Price insurance is key, but the premiums are so expensive due to COVID that they can't participate. Has a price insurance program been implemented in Atlantic Canada?\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Yes, Mr.Chair, we are encouraging the use of private programs, as well as the risk management programs. The initiative must come from the private sector. I cannot answer my colleague's question directly.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Has the minister worked with her provincial counterparts to secure a short-term cost-sharing agreement to reduce premiums where price insurance already exists?\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I can assure my colleague that I am working very regularly with all my provincial colleagues. In addition to our individual meetings, we have a regular telephone meeting each week.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Is cost-sharing of premiums already available for crop insurance?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, for insurance protection, our proposal to the provinces is to include the possibility of recognizing a labour shortage as an insurable risk. It is up to each of the provinces to sign on to that or not.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Without price insurance, how many ranchers have had to address cash flow by selling cattle at the bottom of the market?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, we have established a number of programs in order to help our beef producers. For example, we are providing $50million through the AgriRecovery program and $77.5million for food processors.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: On May 1, the Young Cattlemen's Council asked the minister to extend the deadline for attaining calf price insurance. Today is that deadline. Did the minister meet it?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, we discuss different options with representatives of various organizations almost every day. We are trying to work with them to improve the various programs and to meet their needs, in addition to the risk management programs, of course.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: She didn't respond to the request of the Young Cattlemen's Council. The minister is telling farmers to access the BRM program, but just now I got a text from a young cattleman in my riding who's losing $250 to $300 per head and just told me that those programs in no way increase their capacity to deal with this crisis. The Farm Credit Canada lending capacity was increased by $5 billion, but only to service and manage loans of current customers. How many farmers have applied for that assistance?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: However, Mr.Chair, there is a whole range of programs for our producers, whether they be specific programs for the agriculture sector, or the Canada emergency business account, the CEBA, the criteria of which have been broadened. This allows us to provide more loans, also with a forgivable portion of 25%, which could amount to $670million for the agricultural sector.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: What percentage of Canada's farmers are customers of Farm Credit Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, Farm Credit Canada is well-established from one end of the country to the other and it is ready to meet the needs of our agricultural producers. In addition\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Back to Ms. Wagantall.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Of the 25% of farmers who use FCC and have applied, how many have received assistance?\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I stand to be corrected but, according to the most recent information I have received, $4billion in flexible loans to producers have been made available since the crisis began.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have 45 seconds left, Ms. Wagantall.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Is the minister concerned that cow-calf numbers will sharply decrease if producers aren't able to protect the value of their herds, which they cannot do, jeopardizing the future of the Canadian beef supply chain?\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I can assure you that I am extremely concerned about the future of the agri-food sector. That is why we are working extremely hard with the sector every day to improve existing programs and create new ones, especially in support of the meat industry.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: They made it clear that the BRM programs don't work and there's not funding in place to assist them. Three weeks ago, the processing backlog was more than 100,000 head. How many beef operations are facing the real danger of going out of business because of this pandemic and the lack of support by the agriculture minister and this Liberal government?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Once again, Mr.Chair, we know that the risk-management programs are not perfect. That is why we are working with the provinces to find solutions. These are shared-cost programs with the provinces and we want to improve them. This is why we are trying to incorporate some flexibility. In addition, we are supplementing the funding, especially for the meat industry.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Ms. Wilson-Raybould in Vancouver Granville.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould (Vancouver Granville, Ind.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister of Employment has stated that measures would be forthcoming for individuals with disabilities, similar to the one-time payment increase given to seniors on OAS and GIS. Could the minister please provide some more details with respect to the statement she made? When can individuals with disabilities expect meaningful financial assistance?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, we know that Canadians with disabilities are disproportionately impacted by COVID in terms of both their own personal health and the access to supports that they have, or don't have, more specifically. We are three days away from National AccessAbility Week, the first week after we legislated it in the Accessible Canada Act. I would expect something from our government during that week.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould: Thank you for that. My office has heard from many constituents who are frustrated over the lack of information on eligibility requirements from the government regarding the business credit availability program. Furthermore, banks are giving small and medium-sized businesses mixed messaging. How will the government ensure that the messaging for BCAP and similar programs is articulated properly?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for her question. Nothing is more important to us right now than making sure our small and medium-sized businesses are supported. The lending program through BCAP is available through financial institutions; that's banks and credit unions across the country. The money is flowing to those businesses. I would encourage Canadian businesses to get in touch with their financial institutions. Thank you so much.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould: Mr. Chair, members may not be aware, but there are ongoing restrictions on when some civil servants can access government servers and their files due to the pandemic, to ensure that those dealing directly with the pandemic have priority. For example, this is affecting negotiations with indigenous peoples. Can the government please tell us when the system will have sufficient capacity so that all civil servants can do their work remotely and without limitation?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to my colleague for her important question, which indeed speaks to the importance of public servants continuing their important jobs for Canadians, being mindful, of course, of the difficult circumstances in which many of those workers find themselves, both personally and professionally. We know that, in particular, indigenous communities need that support, and particularly so in the context of the crisis. We look forward to continuing to support them.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould: As current and former parliamentarians call for a national inquiry into long-term care homes, something I would strongly support, can the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations please give the members an idea as to when the action plan on murdered and missing indigenous women and girls will be released? In asking this question, I certainly understand the need for consultation and the reality of some delays due to the pandemic. There are of course many actions that we all know need to take place now that do not need more consultation. The need for consultation cannot be an excuse for the lack of action.\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett: I thank the member for her ongoing advocacy. As we approach the first anniversary of the release of the final report, we are grateful for the work of all of our partners as they really try to do what they can to end this national tragedy of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and those who are two-spirited, plus. Despite the challenges of COVID-19, they have put in good initiatives, and we look forward to releasing a national action plan that will include all provinces and territories as well as all of our indigenous governments and partners.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms. Wilson-Raybould, you're down to about the last 30 seconds, so please ask a short question.\nHon. Jody Wilson-Raybould: I have a short question for the Minister of Transport. Does the government have any plans to step in and encourage airlines to return money to customers rather than vouchers? I've heard from many constituents and businesses in this regard.\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, as I mentioned before, we're very sympathetic to the situation that those who would have preferred a refund are in at the moment. However, the airlines are going through an extremely difficult time, and if they had to reimburse at this time, some of them could fail.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Mr. Blaikie.\n",
      "Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to begin by indicating that I'll be splitting my time with the member for SkeenaBulkley Valley. Across the country, a lot of Canadians are preparing to go back to work right now and some employers are doing a good job of ensuring that there is a safe workplace, with the right procedures and the right equipment. Unfortunately, some employers are not. For Canadians who are employed by them, that means making a really tough decision between going back to a workplace where they don't feel safe and which may present a threat to their families or communities, and staying home and worrying about not being paid because they're not at work or because they will lose access to the CERB. I am wondering what guidance the federal government has for people who feel that their workplace is not safe at this time and that their employer hasn't done its due diligence, and are concerned about losing access to the CERB.\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, we are very concerned about the safety of our workplaces and we don't want workers to feel unsafe as they go back to work. However, we do want people to go back to work. We are working very closely with the provinces. The Minister of Health is working on occupational health and safety guidelines. The Minister of Labour is working with her colleagues. We are taking an all-of-government approach to ensure that workers are safe, that they don't have to put their lives or the health of their families in jeopardy and that we can support them in these efforts.\n",
      "Mr. Daniel Blaikie: Mr. Chair, I think the issue here is that Canadian workers really need some certainty about what the federal government would consider an adequate employment offer, or an offer to come back to work, so that they wouldn't be on the CERB. Can Canadians be confident that they can stay on the CERB whether they go back to work or not, whether their employer makes them an offer or not? I think a lot of people have anxiety about this and it's a difficult time. When is the government going to release some formal guidance on how people go about refusing unsafe work?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, we know that the provinces have their own workers' compensation programs and refusal-to-work mechanisms, but the point for us, here in government, is to work with employers and with the provinces so that we make our workplaces safe.\nMr. Daniel Blaikie: But this is about CERB eligibility. I respect\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Order. Mr. Blaikie, we have run out of time since we are splitting the time between two speakers. We're now going to Mr. Bachrach.\n",
      "Mr. Taylor Bachrach (SkeenaBulkley Valley, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canadians depend on municipalities across Canada for vital services, especially during this pandemicservices like transit, drinking water, parks and sanitationyet the government has left municipalities in an unprecedented financial crisis. Local government leaders across the country have called on the government for help, yet mostly what we've heard are excuses. Does the minister acknowledge that the federal government has a leadership role to play in getting financial help to municipalities at this difficult time?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: What we do acknowledge is the essential role municipalities play in our country at all times, and the particularly essential role they play today as our country gets ready to restart our economy. We are working closely with the municipalities to talk about ways we can support them and are working closely with the provinces, in whose jurisdiction the municipalities fall.\n",
      "Mr. Taylor Bachrach: Through you to the minister, we've seen deep cuts and more cuts are on the way. We've seen thousands of municipal workers laid off, and it's been over a month since municipal leaders called on this government for emergency financial relief. My question is very simple. When can the municipalities expect the help they need from the federal government?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Let me just say again, Mr. Chair, that we are extremely alive to the importance of municipalities in our economy. We are very aware of the difficult financial situation they find themselves in, and we are very aware of how important it is to keep our municipalities functioning, particularly as we move into the restart. We're working with municipalities and are urging them to work with their provinces, as we are doing too.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We have about 30 seconds left. Go ahead, Mr. Bachrach, for 30 seconds.\n",
      "Mr. Taylor Bachrach: I have a very simple question, through you to the minister. Are there emergency federal dollars on the table for Canada's cities, yes, or no?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, the federal government very much understands and appreciates the importance of municipalities. We are prepared to support them. Provinces need to do their share too.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I now invite the honourable member for Manicouagan to take the floor.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill (Manicouagan, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. At a time when we are asking our fellow citizens and Quebeckers to make sacrifices and even greater efforts, the Liberal Party, the government, is directly pilfering from a subsidy program that should be going to those who need it, not to rich political parties and their millionaire supporters. At a time when the work in the House is even more essentialwe should be working even harder, just as we are asking the people to dothe government, with the complicity of the NDP, decides to suspend the work of the House. This is the result of an absurd agreement that is absolutely impossible for it to implement. Can the government confirm to the House, and simultaneously to the NDP, that the measure involving 10days of leave is absolutely not something it can do? It is not in its jurisdiction, so it is a measure that it cannot implement.\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): Mr.Chair, in order to be part of any agreement, you have to negotiate and be sitting at the table. The Bloc Qubcois says it wants to make gains for Quebec, but in order to do that, it must be sitting at the table, not outside the room. It's like a hockey game; if you want to score goals, you have to be on the ice. The other day, I asked this question: how many of Guy Lafleur's 560goals were scored when he was sitting on the bench?\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Let me shoot the puck back to the Leader of the Government in the House. He himself decided to close the rink, to shut down Parliament. That is where the teams are, and that is where the goals are scored. But when you play a sport, when you are on a team, and when you are in Parliament, you still have to play by the rules. But the government does not keep its word. It made a promise to us as well, just like it made one to the NDP. It was about the Canada emergency student benefit. The Deputy Prime Minister herself said that it was certainly a good idea. What did the government do? It backed away. I play on a team and I play by the rules. I take it at its word because this is the right place. Here, in this chamber. So I would like the government to tell people that this measure is absolutely not in their jurisdiction. That was my previous question. It was not about which parties were negotiating or not and when they kept their word or not. The NDP has to realize that their agreement is absolutely worthless.\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr.Chair, my colleague is alluding to previous current and future agreements. We have had discussions and we have reached a number of agreements with our friends in the Bloc Qubcois. It was going very well, but there was one agreement they did not like and they went off and sulked. When you are not happy, you do not go off and sulk; you stay at the table and negotiate. That is how things work.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: I urge the honourable Leader of the Government to recall the House. I am ready to be here, on the ice, all the time. I must remind him that we are not sulking. The Bloc Qubcois has self-respect and respect for the public. An agreement is not a promise, it is an agreement. A word is given in dignity and sincerity; a bond of trust is created. When a player decides not to play by the rules, I do not let myself be taken in twice. I prefer to negotiate here, as we should be doing all the time in Parliament, not trying to play with someone who never keeps his word. I would just like the Leader of the Government in the House to tell us that the measure about the 10days is not up to him and so he will not be able to make it happen. I could also ask him whether he found out from the Government of Quebec whether it agreed with the measure.\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr.Chair, of course, it is not in my jurisdiction personally. We agree on that. It depends on a number of players, including the provinces and the private sector. We at federal level are holding discussions with the provinces and people in different areas. Of course, we are holding discussions with everyone involved. I want to know what my colleague has against having six hours of questions instead of four. What does she have against the fact that, from now on, people will be able to ask questions about anything, not just about COVID-19? What does she have against the fact that we are going to meet again this summer? What is it that she does not like?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Ms.Gill, you have about 30seconds left for your comment. Go ahead.\nMrs. Marilne Gill: Let me teach the Leader of the Government in the House some arithmetic. First, 37.5hours per week, as well as the time we spend sitting on our normal committees, is quite a bit more than the eight short hours each week he is giving us. Second, once again, the leader said that it is absolutely not in his jurisdiction. So he reaches agreements with parties though his word is worth nothing. I hope that the NDP has not reached an agreement with him.\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr.Chair, it all depends on government decisions, and clearly, we are having discussions with the provinces. Actually, we have already started doing that. However, I still do not understand what she has against having more time than I do to ask questions. I would really like an answer from her.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now take a brief pause so that the technicians can spell each other off.  Order. I see Mr. Bezan on a point of order.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier, during the question time here, Mr. Sweet, the member for Flamborough-Glanbrook, got up and was raising a number of issues about the Hong Kong protests, where 360 people have been arrested. The People's Republic of China, the regime in Beijing, and their rubber-stamp parliament, the National People's Congress, are circumventing Hong Kong legislation and the Hong Kong government in putting their own will upon the people of Hong Kong. I believe this demands an emergency debate here in the House of Commons. Mr. Chair, I'm asking if you would rule on this and schedule an emergency debate so that Parliament can actually discuss this crisis, this human rights crisis, as political protestors are being imprisoned because of their standing up against the communist regime in Beijing.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I thank the honourable member, Mr. Bezan, for his point of order. It was really more of a request. He may know, and for the benefit of other honourable members, that we're operating in this Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic under the auspices of an order made earlier this week. There is no provision in that order for emergency debates. However, I would certainly encourage him to speak with his House leader, whips and others. Of course, he'll know that discussions of this sort are being shared, so he might want to pursue that opportunity. I see Mr. Bezan rising. Mr. Bezan, is it a different point of order?\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: No. I'd just like to respond to that if I could.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Well, there's\nMr. James Bezan: Mr. Chair, this is the problem with this special committee. Our rights and privileges as members have been completely degraded. It makes it impossible for us to address the issues of this day.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Bezan, we're all operating under an order that was agreed to by the House. We'll stick to those provisions. Again, understand the situation we're in. Certainly circumstances do change, but I leave that to the party leaders to decide. For our last round of questions, we're going to CharleswoodSt. JamesAssiniboiaHeadingley, Mr. Morantz.\n",
      "Mr. Marty Morantz (CharleswoodSt. JamesAssiniboiaHeadingley, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions are for the Minister of National Revenue. Minister, I've been informed by some of my colleagues that CRA officials have been directing constituents to phone their member of Parliament to resolve CRA-related issues. Why on earth would CRA direct individuals away from the agency during this stressful time when they're just trying to get their tax information and file their taxes?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, I thank my colleague for that important question. I can tell you that CRA employees have to deal with questions put to them. It is not up to MPs' offices to deal with specific questions about individual files.\n",
      "Mr. Marty Morantz: Minister, you didn't answer the question. These are your CRA officials directing constituents away from the CRA. You really should be answering that question and not just talking about how inappropriate it is, although I appreciate that. Also, on your website, it says that the telephone service for the individual-inquiries line will be available to Canadians until June 5, and there is no further information about further live service. When will you get your agency under control and make sure it provides an actual person on the other end of the line to provide the information that taxpayers need?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Just before we go to the minister, I would remind hon. members to address their questions through the chair. It's a little bit different from when we're questioning witnesses in a committee. We're using the rules more related to what we use in committee of the whole. The honourable minister has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Marty Morantz: On a point of order, Mr. Chair, as far as I'm aware, this is not Parliament; this is a committee. I've been sitting on committees since October. I've talked to my colleagues, and no chair, including the chair of the finance committee, has ever asked me to address a question through the chair. So with the greatest of respect, unless this is in fact Parliament, which I'm told it's not and the Parliament voted that it's not, we really should be able to address the witnesses directly, should we not?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Thank you, Mr. Morantz. This really is a question around the way in which this special committee on COVID-19 has been structured. We're operating under the rules that were agreed to by the House in an order that was passed and adopted on Tuesday of this week, so we're bound to manage the affairs of this committee in that way, and one of those includes asking members to address their comments and questions through the chair to other hon. members. So I ask you to abide by the rules of the committee, and we'll pursue that. Now we'll go to the response to your second question. The honourable minister has the floor.\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, I must thank the officials who have done excellent work during this historic COVID-19 period. I must tell you that CRA call centres are an essential service and the agency is able to answer calls quickly. The employees are answering calls from their homes.\nMr. Marty Morantz: Some of my colleagues have spoken to the CRA about drop-off boxes for paper returns actually being removed at some locations, citing COVID-19 as a reason. Has the CRA removed these boxes at all locations? Given this, will you commit today to make paper filing postage-free, since paper filers can no longer drop off their returns at all of the locations?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, I thank my colleague for that important question. At the CRA, we continue to process paper returns and to do the work that we usually do. I repeat, I must highlight the exceptional work that the agency employees are doing.\n",
      "Mr. Marty Morantz: On the subject of paper returns, there have been numerous reportsin fact I asked you on May 10 for a written response at the government operations committee, OGGO, which I have not yet receivedon the delays in processing paper returns. Apparently this is still ongoing. When will Canadians who filed paper forms have their returns processed so they can get the refunds they need during this difficult time?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, I can confirm that the Canada Revenue Agency continues to process paper returns. Because of COVID-19, we have had to implement distancing measures to protect the employees. We must ensure that employees are safe, but we continue to process paper returns.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Morantz, you have about 45 seconds left. Go ahead with your question.\n",
      "Mr. Marty Morantz: Sure, Mr. Chair. During this crisis, the problem of illegal tax evasion and avoidance has been highlighted. The minister has been the minister since 2015 and should be able to answer this question off the top of her head. How many successful prosecutions have there been in Canada for the illegal use of tax havens?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier: Mr.Chair, as we have said, one of our government's priorities was to invest almost $1billion to establish a system intended to fight tax evasion. That was not at all a priority under the Conservatives. We continue to do that important work for taxpayers; everyone must pay their fair share.\n"
    ],
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  {
    "id": 67,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting basically discussed the crisis across Canada amidst the pandemic. The opposition party questioned the ministers for responding late to the situation, and the financial support was not given to those who were really in need. The ministers promised that they were trying to reach out to as many companies as possible and the opposition party was not very satisfied with the answer. Canada's economy was heavily stricken by the pandemic and the opposition party was prompting the ministers to roll out several measures. Last but not least, they stressed on the long-term care issue, and the ministers promised that they were paying attention to it.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 12th meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be the first hybrid meeting of the committee. Some members will be participating via videoconference and some will be participating in person. This follows the order made by the House on May26,2020. Members who have already participated in a virtual meeting of the special committee may actually not notice any change, except for the fact that some members are also participating from the floor of the House. An additional rubric, that of statements by members, was also added to the proceedings of the committee. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up in the chamber on either side of the Speakers chair. Sound amplification for virtual interventions will be available, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor sound or interpretation using the earpieces on their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. Please also direct your remarks through the Chair. Thank you. For those of you joining via video conference, I would like to remind you to leave your mike on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you should be on the English channel. If you want to speak French, you should be on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, you should change the channel to the language that you are speaking each time you switch languages. Should members participating by videoconference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their microphone and state that they have a point of order. Those in the chamber can simply rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. Next we'll move on to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements today, so we'll move on to petitions. We'll be presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificates off at the table once the petitions are presented. First on our list for presenting petitions is Ms. May, who is joining us virtually.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Mr. Chair, what an honour to be the first voice coming to you from the screens on either side of the Speaker of the House. I speak to you from SaanichGulf Islands on the traditional territory of the WSNEC people. Hych'ka Siem. I'm presenting a petition, number 431-00215, and it has been certified. The petitioners call on this House to take note of the fact that Canada is the only country with a universal health care system that does not include the provision of necessary prescription medications. They note that the system across Canada is a patchwork that leaves three million Canadians unprepared and uninsured to be able to purchase necessary medications. They call on the House assembled to put in place a system of universal national pharmacare, bringing down the cost of drugs through bulk purchasing. I think I'll call that a summary, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much.\n",
      "The Chair: The next petition will be presented by Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm pleased to be presenting two petitions before the committee today. The first petition is in support of Bill S-204. This Senate public bill, been put forward by Senator Salma Ataullahjan in the Senate, would make it a criminal offence for someone to go abroad to receive an organ for which there has not been consent. It also has a mechanism by which somebody could be deemed inadmissible to Canada for being involved in the horrible practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking. This bill has been before various Parliaments for over 10 years, and petitioners are hopeful that this Parliament will be the one that finally takes action to address forced organ harvesting and trafficking. The second petition is put forward by folks who are concerned about Bill C-7, particularly the efforts by the government through Bill C-7 to remove vital safeguards that are currently associated with Canada's euthanasia regime. Petitioners are not happy about the fact that the government is trying to eliminate the 10-day reflection period and remove other safeguards that only four short years ago the government thought were essential for the euthanasia and assisted suicide system that they were putting in place. The petitioners call on the government to address that, and they are not supportive of these particular efforts to remove vital safeguards from that regime. Thank you very much.\n",
      "The Chair: Is anyone else presenting petitions? Seeing none, we'll move on to statements by members. We will now proceed to Statements by Members for a period not exceeding 15minutes. Each statement will be for one minute. The first will be from Mr.Samson. Mr.Samson, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Darrell Samson (SackvillePrestonChezzetcook, Lib.): Good afternoon, everyone. It's an honour to be presenting an S. O. 31. This spring has been a difficult one for Nova Scotia and the communities of SackvillePrestonChezzetcook. While residents have banded together to tackle the challenges presented by COVID-19, we have also had to mourn the passing of three remarkable local women: RCMP Constable Heidi Stevenson, well known by many in Cole Harbour and the surrounding areas; our own Sub-Lieutenant Abbigail Cowbrough, who was based out of 12 Wing Shearwater; and Captain Jenn Casey of the Canadian Forces Snowbirds. All three women died in the line of duty in separate tragic events while serving our country. These three brave women, who served with honour on land, at sea and in the air, represent the absolute best of us. Heidi, Abbigail and Jenn were inspirational and will not be forgotten. Thank you.\n",
      "The Chair: Next we'll go to Mr. Bezan.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canada needs a prime minister who will create jobs and opportunity, but instead we have a prime minister who is piling up crippling national debt. Yesterday the PBO predicted the federal deficit this year will hit over $252 billion. That is almost equivalent to an average year of government spending before the Liberal government. After five years with this debt, Prime Minister, Canada's national debt is set to hit $1 trillion, with almost nothing to show for it. Industries from coast to coast are either closed or are struggling. Canadian workers need and deserve a prime minister who supports our energy sector and gets our natural resources and agriculture products to market, who supports small business and will make our tax system encourage job creation and growth, and who will bring advanced manufacturing jobs to Canada and keep the automotive industry growing. Most importantly, we need a Conservative prime minister who will get the government finances under control after the massive debt left by this prime minister.\n",
      "The Chair: Next we'll go to Mr. Anandasangaree.\n",
      "Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (ScarboroughRouge Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I speak today with a very heavy heart. Since the COVID-19 outbreak, we've seen a disproportionate number of deaths in long-term care homes. I'm thankful for the Canadian Armed Forces who were deployed to the Altamont care home in my riding and four other facilities across the GTA. The CAF have brought forward horrifying allegations in the operation of these homes. They include residents being given expired or improper doses of medication; not being cleaned or changed for a prolonged period of time; being forcibly fed, causing choking; being bed-bound for weeks; receiving inadequate nutrition, and much more. Mr. Chair, I call upon Premier Ford to place these five homes under a mandatory management order and to appoint a third party manager to address and rectify these violations. I also call upon the Premier to undertake an independent public inquiry into the tragedy we face in long-term care facilities across Ontario. Finally, Mr. Chair, we need to work with the provinces and territories to set national standards of care for the most vulnerable in our society. We can and must do better. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: We have a point of order. Go ahead, Ms. May.\nMs. Elizabeth May: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hesitate to interrupt colleagues, but I'm concerned about the petition practice, which, as I understand it, is to summarize a petition but not make a speech. I felt one of our colleagues was trespassing on our usual rules.\nThe Chair: I will remind honourable members that when a petition is presented, we're expected to give a prcis and make it as concise as possible. Thank you. Mr.Champoux, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ): Mr.Chair, I would like to recognize the resilience of Quebeckers concerned for their jobs or their businesses during the COVID-19 crisis. They need us to plan for after the crisis, and we must do so now. To do so, we need the proper information. We need to know the status of the public finances. That is why the Bloc Qubcois is demanding that the government present an economic update, and that it do so before June17. This is not about making a spectacle. Everyone knows that the deficit will be huge. We had to provide the people with support and we all agree on that. But we have to know to what extent. We also have to know where we are starting from so that we can plan where we are going. This is about respecting the public, because they are the ones who will be paying the bill. In closing, I would like to remind the government that one group is not really contributing to the public purse at the moment. I am talking about the tech giants, the GAFAM group, that have never before been used to the extent that they are now, and that are still not paying a cent in tax in Canada. The Liberals promised to correct this injustice. Now is a great time for them to do so.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Sidhu.\n",
      "Ms. Sonia Sidhu (Brampton South, Lib.): Mr. Chair, this week is National Paramedic Services Week. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Peel region police, paramedic and firefighting services for keeping Bramptonians safe. In my riding, organizations have stepped up to help our community. Organizations such as the Khalsa Aid Society, the Interfaith Council of Peel, the Brampton YMCA, the Prayer Stone Peoples Church, Unity in the Community, Ste. Louise Outreach Centre, Knights Table, the Yogi Divine Society, Vraj Community Service, Regeneration Brampton and many more have made our community stronger during this difficult time. I also have to address the report that came out yesterday from our brave Canadian Armed Forces. Like many Canadians, I was shocked by this report from the long-term care centres, including one in my riding. The examples of abuse described in the report are unacceptable. Our seniors deserve dignity and respect. We must find a solution. We need to fix this.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mrs. Stubbs.\n",
      "Mrs. Shannon Stubbs (Lakeland, CPC): Mr. Chair, Canada's oil and gas sector is in crisis, made worse by five years of bad policies, red tape and barriers to pipelines. Just in the last two months, we saw the largest production cut in Canadian history. Active rigs dropped by 92% and tens of thousands of oil and gas workers lost their jobs, adding to the 200,000 since 2015. Energy is Canada's biggest investor, and exporting could lead the recovery if there are actions, not just words. On March 25, the finance minister promised help in hours or days, not weeks, but he's letting Canadians down. Sixty-three days later, small oil and gas companies still can't apply for BDC loans, and last week's large employer loan terms are predatory, with interest rates escalating to 14% by year five. Those are payday loan rates. The required stock options being at record lows could make the government the largest shareholder. That's not emergency assistance; it's pandemic profiteering. Programs can't help workers if businesses can't or won't actually get the support. The Liberals' death-by-delay tactics are doing exactly what foreign activists in other countries want: to shut down Canada's oil.\n",
      "The Chair: Ms.Bessette, the floor is yours.\n",
      "Mrs. Lyne Bessette (BromeMissisquoi, Lib.): Mr.Chair, in times of crisis, we stick together. I can state that this is certainly the case in BromeMissisquoi. In the last weeks, I have been calling volunteer action centres in my constituency so that they can tell me their news. I would like to take the time that I have to highlight the work that community organizations are doing tirelessly in my constituency. The crisis has made us realize the extent to which food banks and meals-on-wheels can not only relieve hunger, but also relieve thousands of shut-in seniors of their loneliness. Let me also highlight the devotion of the volunteers giving generously of their time, particularly the initiative of Mabel Hastings in the volunteer aid centre in Mansonville. Like me, she sends out a daily newsletter to keep the public informed about the many resources available for their support. COVID-19 is bringing out the best in our community and I am certain that, together, we will get through it.\n",
      "The Chair: We will go to Mr. Virani.\n",
      "Mr. Arif Virani (ParkdaleHigh Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, during the COVID-19 pandemic I have been inspired by the courageous work of so many essential workers. I want to thank everyone on the front lines for keeping us safe, keeping us fed and keeping our communities functioning. I want to make special note of one particular essential health care worker, a woman who is a quarantine manager with the Public Health Agency of Canada. I have personally seen her working tirelessly over the past three months to keep all of us safe. That woman is my wife, Suchita Jain. Suchi, I love you, I am very proud of you and I thank you for all of the sacrifices you are making. I want to highlight another woman from my riding of ParkdaleHigh Park, Rachelle LeBlanc. She is a local designer. When the pandemic broke, she saw the need for protective barriers for small shops in Parkdale, so she set about collecting donations. She then put her design talents to work and started designing free-standing protective shields. Rachelle's team has now delivered 25 free COVID protective shields to small shopkeepers in Parkdale, and the team is on track to building 100 more. It's the compassion of Canadians like Rachelle that gives meaning to the phrase we are all in this together.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Godin, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Jol Godin (PortneufJacques-Cartier, CPC): Mr.Chair, the school year has been shattered and our graduating classes must be proud of what they have achieved amid the COVID-19 pandemic. Young men, young women, be proud of your accomplishments! You can believe in the future. Keep learning. It will give you tools that will serve you all your lives. What you have achieved in this extraordinary year will set you apart from the others. I invite you to be inspired by that and turn it to your advantage. The current government has the obligation to promote the values that will lead you to become involved in your communities. Your willingness to learn or to work makes you into better citizens. Knowledge and experience are irreplaceable and invaluable. I implore this government, which is unaware of the damage it is causing, to immediately announce all the positions that have already been approved under the Canada summer jobs program. Urgent action is needed. Let us have confidence in our organizations, our companies, and let us support our youth, a rich resource that we must equip and motivate. I congratulate all the young graduates in the beautiful constituency of PortneufJacques-Cartier.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Fergus.\n",
      "Mr. Greg Fergus (HullAylmer, Lib.): Mr.Chair, this pandemic lets us see what Canadians are made of. This coming Saturday, May30, more than 2,000Christians of all denominations are coming together virtually for prayer and for action. When the going gets tough, Canadians get going. This could not be more true than with respect to what will be happening on May 30. This Saturday, in more than 2,000 churches and homes, thousands of faith-filled Canadians are gathering to pray and act on those prayers as part of Stand United Canada. They will gather through television, Facebook Live and Instagram Live. Then they are going to deliver much-needed support to at-risk Canadians who live in disadvantaged areas. This is faith in action. I'm sure I speak for all parliamentarians when I wish success to Stand United Canada. I hope it inspires more Canadians to follow in its footsteps. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Harder.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC): The best way to safeguard the truth is to allow people to speak freely, but from the very beginning of this pandemic, the Liberals have silenced dissent. Sadly, their short-sightedness has been to the detriment of Canadians. Early on, they propagated the notion that human-to-human transmission wasn't possible. They said that closing the borders wasn't necessary. They told us that wearing face masks wouldn't help. It is undeniable that the Liberal government has put Canadians in danger by silencing alternative points of view and has spread misinformation. Ironically, however, they have now gone ahead and crowned themselves the arbiters of truth. They are spending millions of dollars to censor what Canadians can and cannot say. They are determining what is true and what is not, what is right and what is wrong, what is in and what is out. When freedom of speech is repressed, it is safe to say that democracy is under siege. I call upon the government to restore the personal liberties that are granted under our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is Canada. We are not an autocracy; we are a democracy.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Nater.\n",
      "Mr. John Nater (PerthWellington, CPC): Mr. Chair, small businesses have always been the cornerstone of communities across this country. They provide employment and economic stability and are always the first to support community functions and activities, but small businesses have been particularly hard hit due to COVID-19. They have shut their doors temporarily, and now many worry they'll never be able to open their doors again. With the season cancellations at the Stratford Festival, Drayton Entertainment and Stratford Summer Music, businesses in the tourism, hospitality, accommodation and retail sectors in PerthWellington are struggling. Every day, I talk to small business owners who can't access the Canada emergency business account, and others who find the convoluted commercial rent assistance program to be out of reach. The program is needlessly complicated, frustratingly slow and excessively restrictive. Mr. Chair, the government needs to go back, fix these programs and ensure that support goes to the small businesses that need it.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Collins.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP): Mr. Chair, Canadians have been shaken by this pandemic. It has exposed the gaps in our health care system and our social safety net. It has shown how vulnerable we all are when disaster hits. It has brought us to a crossroads. We can go backwards to so-called business as usual, with horrific conditions in long-term care homes, widespread inequality and no real action on climate change, or we can build for better. In Victoria, people in the community, organizations and municipal leaders have been calling for a new way forward. The City of Victoria has a plan for reinvention, resilience and recovery. Organizations like Greater Victoria Acting Together; Common Vision, Common Action; and Kairos Victoria are exploring ideas for a sustainable and just recovery. We can build for better. We can invest in the infrastructure. We need to fight climate change, homelessness and inequality. We can build a Canada where we take better care of the planet and each other.\n",
      "The Chair: We now move to Ms.DeBellefeuille.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ): Mr.Chair, in this time of pandemic, it is with heartfelt emotion that I want to highlight the excellent work of all the guardian angels at the CISSS de la Montrgie-Ouest. From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank the entire staff, as well as the retirees who have come back to provide their assistance. I admire the managers, at all levels and in all services, working tirelessly so that their teams can answer the call in this difficult situation. My fellow managers and the management teams of the Support Program for the Autonomy of Seniors, both in home support and in residential care, you have my heartfelt congratulations for the herculean work you have done. My thoughts go particularly to Lyne Ricard and Vronique Proulx, managers working diligently with their teams of professionals to support the seniors living in intermediate resources, as we call them. I also warmly recognize the director of nursing services, Chantal Careau, who is facing the current challenge with passion and humanity. Once again, my congratulations go to the entire organization of the CISSS de la Montrgie-Ouest for their remarkable work in this difficult and very demanding time.\n",
      "The Chair: We will go to Mr. Barlow.\n",
      "Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC): During the worst of times, we see the best in people. Heroes are born, characters revealed, resiliency is sowed. I cannot say enough about my constituents in Foothillsfront-line health care workers, grocery store clerks, restaurateurs, farmersfor all they are doing to keep our community safe and healthy. I want to shine a light on some of our hidden heroes, such as Owen Plumb, a grade 9 student in Okotoks who is using his 3D printer to build PPE for front-line health care workers. He partnered with the Rotary Club and Evergreen Solutions in Okotoks to help with the manufacturing and assembly. There is also Sam Schofield, the volunteer president of the Pincher Creek Chamber of Commerce, overnight built a resiliency website for COVID-19 by building training tools for businesses throughout his area. He also helped develop the Foothills Business Recovery Taskforce, which is a resource for businesses throughout southern Alberta in my riding. Finally, to the employees of Cargill Foods in High River, I know this has been a very difficult time and that many of you have lost loved ones. I want to say thank you for tirelessly doing all you can to protect our food supply and keep food on our table. Each and every one of you is a hero. Thank you.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Simms.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Simms (Coast of BaysCentralNotre Dame, Lib.): Thank you, Chair. I would like to take this time to salute those who go above and beyond the call of duty to provide care and comfort to others. In my 16 years in the House of Commons I have never experienced anything like this, when we find our lives are at a standstill and there is so much sorrow felt by families who suffer from the effects of COVID-19. However, here are two examples of kindness right here in Newfoundland and Labrador. Shanna and Fred Patey of Bishop's Falls, along with a few of their friends, spend hours next to the Trans-Canada Highway with just a barbeque and a cooler. They serve free meals for truckers crossing our province each and every day. So far they have provided over 1,500 meals. There is also Mitch Strickland of Grand Falls-Windsor, who owns Appy's Diner. He has continually provided food for the local hospital and other front-line workers through his donations. To all our front-line workers in grocery stores and delivery trucks, and to doctors, nurses, LPNs, paramedics, first responders and, of course, our brave women and men in the military, we will be forever grateful and blessed because of you. Thank you.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\n",
      "The Chair: That's all the time we have today for Statements by Members. Before going on, I just want to remind all the members that it is a one-minute statement, so if you don't mind, please time it before coming in because we do have limited time. The other thing that has come up is that some of you just naturally speak very quickly. I'm not here to judge anybody's way of speaking, but try to consider the translators and interpreters to make sure that everyone understands what is said, because they are working diligently to try to get both languages out. In sum, there are two things: please slow down and please make sure the statement is confined to one minute. We now move to Questions to Ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings every 45minutes in order to allow the employees who are providing support for the sitting to substitute for each other safely.  Our first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. In the early days of the pandemic and the lockdown that followed, Canadians were told by this government that programs would be rolled out very quickly and that gaps and shortcomings would be changed as time went on. While many Canadians are being let down by this government's response and its unnecessarily rigid programs, Conservatives identified solutions weeks ago, yet here we are, two and a half months later, and many of these programs still have not been improved. I have a simple question for the Prime Minister. On April 26 the Conservatives asked the Prime Minister to change the criteria for the Canada emergency business account so that small businesses that don't happen to have a business bank account could qualify for those types of programs. It's now May 27. Is the Prime Minister going to make that change?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Mr. Chair, we knew from the beginning of this pandemic that we did need to move extremely quickly, and that's what we did. We rolled out the Canada emergency response benefit extremely quickly. Eight million Canadians have had that as a replacement for paycheques lost because of COVID-19. We also moved forward on the wage subsidy and a range of other programs to support workers and small businesses. What we've done in terms of helping small businesses with the Canada emergency business account has had a massive impact on small businesses across the country, but we understand that certain companies and businesses have particularities that mean it's a little more difficult for them to qualify. We are working with them through their regional development agencies, and we encourage them to approach their local RDAs, which will be able to help them get the money they deserve.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, these are very simple technical fixes that can be made by this government. There's no excuse for the delay. It's May 27. They've known about these problems for weeks. They're trying to get patted on the back for actions they took back in March, and yet they are letting so many Canadians down by not making these very simple changes. For example, companies that have acquired another company in the last year have employees whose jobs are threatened. The businesses are not allowed to qualify for the wage subsidy because their revenue is now counted together. We have identified this gap. Again, it's a simple question. Will companies that have acquired another company still be allowed to use the wage subsidy to keep workers on the job, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, I know that there are many different types of businesses across this country that need support. We have moved forward on supporting as many of them as we possibly can, and we continue to work on filling gaps. I know the member opposite has talked to me a number of times about a tractor company in his riding. I can assure you that finance officials are engaged with that company to see if there's a way to make sure we're getting them the support they need.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: It's actually a very simple fix. I can save him and his officials a lot of time. The government used the word amalgamation when it announced the changes to that program. He can make this very clear, and save a lot of work, just by including the word acquisition. Will he do that?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, I can assure you that finance officials are working closely with Brandt Tractor. They're continuing to work with a range of businesses across the country that, for various reasons, are not able to apply for the help we have now. We will continue to work to make sure people who need the help get it.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it's literally one word. We can email him the text. We can send him the page in the dictionary where that word is defined, if that would help. Another gap that is letting people down is in the rent relief program. The government has set the parameters to qualify for the rent relief program for companies that have experienced a 70% revenue loss. There are untold thousands of businesses that have experienced a 50%, 55%, 60% or 65% loss that are ineligible but have no capacity to pay the rent. We called on the government weeks ago to have a more flexible sliding scale to allow more companies to access this program to keep more people on the job and more businesses open. Will the government introduce some flexibility to this program to help more businesses survive?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, from the beginning of this pandemic, our public servants and policy-makers have been moving creatively and quickly to try to get help to as many people as we possibly can, with our focus being on the people who need it the most. Obviously, this pandemic is affecting everyone and every business across the country in different ways, but our focus has been on ensuring that those who most need it are getting the help they can. We will, of course, continue to work with the parties opposite and all Canadians to ensure that we're getting help to everyone who needs it, but our focus has always been on the most vulnerable, first and foremost.\n",
      "The Chair: The floor now goes to Mr.Blanchet.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. My question is for the Prime Minister. If the Liberal Party of Canada had not taken advantage of the emergency programs, would it have laid off all its staff?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we recognized that a number of organizations and companies were facing difficulties because of COVID-19. People work for those organizations, as accountants, receptionists, assistants or labourers, and those people need to be supported. We are supporting people all over the country through that program.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Is the Liberal Party one of those organizations in difficulty?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Any company or organization that can demonstrate a significant drop in its income, whether that be in donations, receipts, profits\nThe Chair: The floor goes to Mr.Blanchet.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Is the Liberal Party of Canada in difficulty, as an organization?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we created specific criteria to help organizations in difficulty. Any organization experiencing those difficulties can apply.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: In the Magdalen Islands, fishing companies in difficulty and in need of assistance will not have the money that the Liberals are going to take. Is the Liberal Party of Canada in difficulty, as an organization?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we have invested in assistance for fishers all across the country. We recognize that it is a difficult situation because of COVID-19. We will be here for our fishers and for industries in difficulty.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: I am not catching many answers, it seems to me. A company in Drummondville that manufactures isolation membranes is in difficulty because a federal program is inadequate. Compared to that company, is the Liberal Party of Canada in difficulty, as an organization?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, there are clear criteria for submitting applications under these programs. Companies and organizations that receive money qualify for those programs.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: If the program criteria establish that the Liberal Party is an organization in difficulty, does that mean that the criteria to determine whether an organization is in difficulty are poorly designed?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, all through this pandemic, our priority has been to be here for workers in difficulty so that they do not lose their jobs. This applies to all organizations and companies in the country to the extent possible. That is what we are in the process of doing.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Given the answers from the Prime Minister, let me ask this question: is the Prime Minister in difficulty?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: No, Mr.Chair. We are doing important work for all Canadians, every day.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Restaurant owners on rue Ontario in Montreal feel that they will not make it through the crisis and that they will never open their doors again. They are in difficulty. By comparison, is the Liberal Party of Canada an organization in difficulty that will not open its doors again after the crisis? We can but hope.\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we established criteria for that program in order to help those working for various organizations. Any organization that receives the subsidy has qualified for it.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Is there a consensus in the Liberal Party caucus that the Liberal Party is in difficulty as an organization?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we are working every day to help Canadians and workers in difficulty. We are going to continue to do that work.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Does answering a question put the Prime Minister in difficulty?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, it is a pleasure to be here in the House and to answer questions from Canadians and from members of the opposition.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: You are going to answer a question from a Quebecker, I hope. Companies are struggling in Saguenay, in the Gasp, in Beloeil. Would those companies not deserve to be saved by the money that the supposedly struggling Liberal Party has taken?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: I am always very happy to answer questions from all Canadians currently sitting in the House. We will be here to help workers in difficulty all across the country, including in Quebec.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: If the Prime Minister is so happy to answer questions, I hope he will be delirious with joy to answer this one. Is the Liberal Party in difficulty?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we established a program to help those working in organizations and who could lose their jobs because of COVID-19. We are here to help workers in organizations and companies all over the country.\nThe Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. The conditions of seniors as outlined by the military were appalling, but seniors need more than just compassionate words. They need action. Will the Prime Minister stop hiding behind excuses and actually show leadership to fix long-term care?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the Constitution of Canada is not an excuse. It lays out the divisions of powers and responsibilities, and we respect the provinces' jurisdiction over long-term care facilities. However, from the very beginning, we have indicated our willingness to support the provinces on this very important issue. We need to make sure our seniors right across the country are properly cared for, which is why we sent in the military and why we are there to help the provinces.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: The former federal health minister, Dr. Philpott, said, We need to stop using jurisdiction as an excuse to not have federal leadership. That is a former federal health minister. Now, we know from the military report that staff were afraid to use vital equipment because of the cost. Will the Prime Minister call for an end to profit in long-term care?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, over the past couple of days I've had very good conversations with the premiers of both Quebec and Ontario on this important issue. I look forward to discussing issues around long-term care with all the premiers of the provinces and territories tomorrow evening as well. This is something that Canadians have seen needs concerted action. We will be there to support the provinces.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Needles were reused and expired medication was used, according to military reports. Will the Prime Minister call for an end to profit in the care of our seniors?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the contents of that report were deeply disturbing and troubling for all Canadians. That is why we are committed to working with the provinces to fix this situation. Ontarians and indeed people right across the country are deeply preoccupied by what they've seen going on. We need to fix this, and we will do that together.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: The military report found that cockroaches and flies were present and that food was rotten. Will the Prime Minister call for national standards so that long-term care is governed by the same principles as the Canada Health Act?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, our priority right now is ensuring that we are supporting the provinces in their need to make sure that all seniors are protected right across the country in all those institutions. Going forward, we absolutely will need to have more conversations about how we can ensure that every senior across the country is properly supported.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: The military report found that respecting the dignity of patients was not a priority. Will the Prime Minister call for national standards and for long-term care to be governed by the same principles as the Canada Health Act?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, all Canadians know we need to do better by our seniors. This is something we all take very seriously, and all orders of government will work together to make sure that right now, and going forward, we improve our systems. The federal government will be there to work with the provinces on making that happen.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister has said that he's willing to work with the provinces. I'm saying that we need to see federal leadership. We need a commitment at the federal level that the Prime Minister will push for things that people need, which is to remove profit from long-term care and to establish national standards. Will the Prime Minister go beyond working with provinces and show some leadership?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, I will always be here to stand up for Canadians in all different situations. We are going to work with the provinces, fully respecting jurisdictions, to make sure that, all across the country, Canadians in long-term care are supported as required and receive the services and the care they deserve.\nThe Chair: Mr. Singh, we have 30 seconds. Ask a brief question, please.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Thank you very much. The COVID-19 crisis should not be used as an excuse to avoid presenting solutions to the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls committee, in particular by delaying action on the calls for justice. This is the same government that would not recognize it as a genocide, the same government that delayed the United Nations declaration legislation and the same government that is still taking indigenous kids to court. Will this government commit to core funding for indigenous services to help women and girls and ensure that the calls for justice are implemented without delay?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we continue to work very closely with partners on the calls for justice even as we act in many areas, including better funding for shelters and for victims of domestic violence. We will continue to work with those partners, but people will understand that many of those partners are very focused right now on helping front-line workers, not on establishing the report. We will continue to work with them on the report, but the COVID-19 situation has made that more difficult.\n",
      "The Chair: I want to thank the honourable members who are shouting time, but I do have a timer here, and I am taking care of it. I appreciate the help, but I do want to remind them that I have the proper machinery here. We will now go to Mr. Bezan.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: Thank you, Chair. My question is to the Prime Minister. He was just talking about the tragic conditions in long-term care facilities in Ontario, and there was a report out from Quebec today. I want to commend the Canadian Armed Forces for witnessing these appalling conditions, putting it in the context of a report, and providing care to our loved ones in these long-term care facilities. The government is saying they didn't receive the report from the department until May 22, but this report came out on May 14. What happened to that report for eight days?\n",
      "The Chair: We will go to the honourable minister. We seem to have a technical issue, Mr. Sajjan. We can't hear you. You might want to put down your bar and keep it down while you're speaking.\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence): Mr. Chair, I want to thank our Canadian Armed Forces members for the tremendous work they are doing. They did their duty, noted down their observations and reported them. While those observations were being reported directly to the managers, a report was being compiled. This report was given to me on the 21st. I then forwarded it to the Minister of Public Safety on the 22nd, and that report was then given to the provincial authorities very quickly afterwards.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: I trust that you got the report on the 21st, but the report was written on the 14th, so what happened with that report for seven days? Why wasn't it acted upon? Could you just explain that? Our loved ones were at risk during that entire time.\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, as we stated, this report was done and given up through the chain of command, and the appropriate leadership did their due diligence. Once we received this report, it was forwarded to the appropriate authorities. Again, I want to commend our Canadian Armed Forces members for not only the tremendous work they are doing but also for doing their duty.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: That report from Ontario documented appalling conditions, horrific care that was being given to the clients, and also the way that the staff conducted themselves. We know that there are 39 members of the Canadian Armed Forces currently infected with COVID-19. Minister, do you believe that the infection could have been transmitted from staff to our soldiers serving in long-term care facilities because proper protocols were not being followed?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, when it comes to any type of activities that we send our Canadian Armed Forces on, we do our due diligence to make sure that we have the right protocols in place and the appropriate training. This is why we have taken the time to make sure our folks not only did the appropriate training but had the appropriate equipment. We have the right protocols in place, and we will make sure that our members who are infected by COVID will get the appropriate treatment as well.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: Does the Minister of National Defence believe that our soldiers serving in Operation Laser, who have put themselves in harm's way in battling the COVID virus as a war, deserve to have hazard pay benefits?\nHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, when it comes to looking after Canadian Armed Forces personnel, yes, we are actually in the process as we speak of making sure that our members have the appropriate hazard pay. This is currently being drafted, and we will have more to say on this shortly.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: I hope that means it's a yes. I do encourage the government to provide that compensation to our soldiers and troops serving in Operation Laser. I would finally like to come back to the issue of the timeline from May 14 to May 21, when that report was in the department for one week. Under our parliamentary system, ministers are accountable for the conduct of their departments. Will the minister take responsibility for that report sitting on someone's desk for seven days and not being turned over to the proper authorities?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, I want to make it very clear: When it comes to the observations that were made, those were immediately reported to the appropriate management of the care facilities and to the appropriate links within the province. At the same time, this report was being compiled and pushed up to the chain of command, and they did their due diligence. As I stated, it was given to us, and on the same day it was forwarded to the Minister of Public Safety, who immediately then sent it to the provincial authorities.\nMr. James Bezan: Was one of those authorities that this was sent to the RCMP?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Mr. Chair, as stated, this will not only be given to the proper authorities but the appropriate steps will be taken now.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Falk. Ms. Falk.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk (BattlefordsLloydminster, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Yesterday it was revealed that the Minister of Digital Government has been promoting a fundraising campaign to sue Global News for their story criticizing the Chinese Communist Party. Why is the minister using her authority to support the Communist Party of China and threatening our media and freedom of expression?\n",
      "Hon. Joyce Murray (Minister of Digital Government): Mr. Chair, we value the important work of media right across the country. Attacking the integrity of hard-working journalists is simply not acceptable. Like many members on all sides of the House.... WeChat is a social media platform used to engage and share information with\nThe Chair: Now we'll go back to Ms. Falk. Ms. Falk.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: Is the minister aware of the efforts that the United Front carries out on behalf of the Chinese Communist Party to influence how Canadians view the People's Republic of China?\n",
      "Hon. Joyce Murray: Thank you for that question. Mr. Chair, I want to just be clear. The participation in the WeChat group, much like Facebook, is guided by posted\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Ms. Falk.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: Is the minister an active participant in the efforts by the Communists to muzzle a Canadian journalist and deprive Canadians of the facts about China?\nHon. Joyce Murray: Muzzling journalists is never acceptable, and our government is very clear on that. I will say that the individual in question posted something outside of the guidelines of my WeChat group and is no longer\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go back to Ms. Falk. Ms. Falk, I just want to point out that we do have interpreters listening and trying to interpret. They'd appreciate it....\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: My questions are short. That's probably what it is.\nThe Chair: Take a deep breath.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: Chair, the Liberals can't shrug this off. The minister admitted to theBreaker that her own political staff manages this WeChat. This is someone who is paid by Canadian taxpayers. Why is the minister using tax dollars to help China attack Global News and freedom of expression?\n",
      "Hon. Joyce Murray: I think the member knows very well that the people who post on WeChat are free to post what they choose within certain guidelines. Those guidelines were ignored. That person is no longer part of my WeChat group. The post was completely unacceptable, and I do not share the views of the individual.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: Chair, Sam Cooper is an investigative Canadian journalist who has uncovered many different criminal rackets that can be linked back to Beijing. Has the minister apologized to Sam Cooper for attempting to shut down his work?\n",
      "Hon. Joyce Murray: As we all know, community outreach is a very important part of the work of a member of Parliament. WeChat is one of many social media sites regularly used by members\nThe Chair: We go back to Ms. Falk.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: Chair, when will the minister apologize to Sam Cooper and Global News?\nHon. Joyce Murray: Mr. Chair, I have been very clear that I do not share the views of the person who posted on my WeChat site, who operated outside of my\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Ms. Falk.\n",
      "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Chair, in December 2018 the Liberals passed Bill C-76. This included provisions to prevent foreign interference in Canadian society. Does the government believe that Joyce Murray's actions have violated this portion of the act?\nHon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Mr. Chair, I want to assure the member that we are always vigilant in any foreign interference in our national security or issues of political interference in our society. It's monitored carefully by the national security establishment, according to the law as it exists in this country, and we will remain vigilant.\n",
      "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Chair, in May 2019, the Liberals launched their digital charter. One of the principles was strong democracy, a commitment to defend freedom of expression. Will the Liberals hold Joyce Murray's WeChat accountable if it has violated this part of the charter?\nHon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, we are absolutely committed to the rule of law and will always uphold it. I think, as the minister has made very clear, she was not involved in this process and has no control over the individual who posted that matter.\n",
      "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Chair, unfortunately I don't believe that was a sufficient answer. This is really a yes or no. Will the government hold Joyce Murray's WeChat accountable if it has violated their part of the charter?\nHon. Bill Blair: Again, Mr. Chair, I want to assure the member that our government remains committed to the rule of law and we will always work tirelessly to uphold the laws of this country.\nMrs. Rosemarie Falk: Is that a yes or a no?\nHon. Bill Blair: Again, I think it was very clear. We will always uphold the laws of Canada.\n",
      "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk: Still, was that a yes or a no? I'm not hearing a yes or a no.\nHon. Bill Blair: I am doing my very best, Mr. Chair, to answer the question for the House and to assure the member opposite that our government will always remain committed to the rule of law. That is unequivocal.\nThe Chair: We will now move on to the honourable member. The floor is yours, Mr.Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I am very happy and proud to be participating in this discussion in the House of Commons today. My question is very simple: how much is Canada's deficit?\nHon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance): Mr.Chair, we continue to be transparent with our measures. Of course, we want to make sure that our investments, our economy\nThe Chair: The floor is yours, Mr.Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Let me ask my question to the honourable Minister of Finance once more, since he is talking about transparency. My question is really simple: how much is Canada's deficit?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, our economic situation is very fluid. We have made major investments and we are making sure that our economy is working.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, the minister's answer is not fluid at all. But the question is really simple: how much is Canada's deficit?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, it is important to be transparent with our investments. We look at the investments and the figures every day.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, the Minister of Finance may not know what the deficit is, but one great Canadian does know. And he knows that he knows. Could the Minister of Finance be very clear, very fluid and, above all, very transparent with Canadians? What is Canada's deficit?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, I want to be very clear with Canadians: our economic situation is very difficult. The situation is fluid. We are making investments to ensure that our economy will be strong in the future.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, with all due respect to the Minister of Finance, let me point out that, though he is not very clear, Canada's Parliamentary Budget Officer was clear yesterday. The deficit is $260billion. That is the real number. Why does the government not have the courage to state it clearly, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer did yesterday?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we always want to be clear and transparent. It is very important for the situation to be stable in order to ensure our future. That is our economic approach. We are making investments now so that the situation becomes more stable.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, I know that the Minister of Finance is very good with figures. But he is not able to give us one. Perhaps he could comment on the statement that the Parliamentary Budget Officer made yesterday, that the emergency assistance must have an end date, and if it does not, we are heading to levels of taxation that have not been seen in this country for generations. What is the government going to do to make sure that Canadians will not be overtaxed after this crisis?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we think it's very important to make investments. That way, we will have a resilient economy in the future. That's very important. That way, we know that we'll have a good economy in the future. When we have more information, we will\nThe Chair: Mr.Deltell, you have the floor.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, will the minister commit not to raise taxes after the crisis?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, I have said several times that we do not have a plan to raise taxes. That's very important.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Finally a clear answer! However, I'm not convinced that he will apply it. In fact, the Parliamentary Budget Officer himself has said that there isn't much ammunition left without shifting into a large structural deficit, which can lead directly to tax increases. If the Minister of Finance can't even say today what the deficit is today, how can he be credible when he says that he won't raise taxes?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, I think what's most important is that during this pandemic, Canadians and companies across the country need the Government of Canada's help. That is our approach. That way, we will have an economy that will function in the future. Of course, this is important for future generations.\nMr. Grard Deltell: When will there be an economic update?\nHon. Bill Morneau: \nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, all observers are expecting an economic update to know where we're going. When will that happen?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we want our economic update to be accurate. That's why we are looking at information that allow us to make good forecasts.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC): Mr. Chair, the United States, Australia, India, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and Vietnam have created an economic prosperity group to diversify some of their key supply chains away from China. Canada has a free trade agreement with six of these seven countries. Why are we not part of this group?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, I thank the hon. member for that question. Indeed, we have been working diligently with all of these countries to make sure that we are keeping global supply chains open during this critical time. I think everyone agrees that keeping supply chains open for medical goods, critical agriculture and essential goods is absolutely essential and\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, this government is refusing to come to terms with what COVID-19 will mean for the future of international trade. Why is Canada not at the table with our largest trading partner protecting the viability of our international supply chains and capitalizing on the opportunities of others doing the same?\nThe Chair: Before we go to the minister, one of the members has his mike still on, and I would ask that he turn it off. I am hearing background noise. The hon. minister.\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, Canada has unprecedented access to a number of markets around the world because of the extraordinary agreements that we have made to provide access to customers in those international markets. During COVID-19, we have been working with our G20 partners. I have had two meetings with G20 trade ministers on the importance of keeping supply chains\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, is this payback for the Prime Minister snubbing these countries at the original TPP signing?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, we have a CPTPP arrangement with these countries, and we are looking forward to making sure that we get Canadian businesses growing into those markets.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, the U.K. will begin applying tariffs at the beginning of next year on Canadian exports such as seafood, beef and cars. These are the items that have had tariffs removed under CETA. Will the government commit to having a new trade agreement with the U.K. in place by January 1?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, we are monitoring the situation very carefully. The U.K., of course, is a very important trading partner for Canada. They are in discussions right now. I want to assure Canadian businesses that CETA continues to apply to our trade with the U.K. during this period while they go through Brexit.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, after CUSMA, this government guaranteed to the trade committee that they would publish the objectives of any new trade agreement. When will we see these objectives published and actually have a chance to view them?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, we look forward to working to ensure that those objectives are published as we get into future trade discussions.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, the resignation of the WTO director-general at this unprecedented time is concerning for the international trade community. Is the government committed to supporting a DG candidate who is dedicated to the massive reforms needed to get the WTO functioning again?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, I want to thank the hon. member for that good question. The Ottawa group, led by Canada, is working with like-minded countries on the reform of the WTO. We've been doing this work and we continue to do this work. I look forward to making sure that we are leading the way on those discussions with like-minded\nThe Chair: Mr. Hoback.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, last week the President of the United States considered blocking cattle imports. Our beef producers don't need this. They need stability. Three-quarters of Canada's beef cattle exports go to the U.S. Has the government sought out and received assurances from the United States that no such action will apply to Canadian cattle?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr. Chair, we have an excellent assurance of our trade with the United States, which is our new NAFTA trade agreement that we have negotiated, thanks to the unprecedented co-operation across this country. It is very important to the Canadian economy and Canadian producers.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, going forward post-COVID, there are a lot things that will be changing in supply chains. What is this government doing proactively to look at opportunities in these supply chains that Canadian businesses can take advantage of?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, we continue to work with countries around the globe to ensure that Canada's supply chains and those global supply chains, particularly for essential goods, for agricultural products, for medical supplies, continue to remain open. We will keep doing this work.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, on the agriculture side, canola farmers would like to know the status of canola going into China. Can she update the House on that status?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Mr.Chair, I want to assure my colleague that we are continuing to work with our industry representatives, our allies and our trading partners in China.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Ms. McLeod.\nMrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Senior Canadian bureaucrats received very credible reports in early January that China was procuring and hoarding PPE. As a member of cabinet, was the health minister aware?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): Mr. Chair, from the very beginning of the outbreak in early January we were aware of the challenges our health sector would face, and we immediately began to work with the provinces and territories to understand what the need would be and how we could best prepare.\nMrs. Cathy McLeod: In April, the minister stated there were not enough supplies in the national emergency stockpile. Can she explain why she approved a donation of 16 tonnes of PPE for China on January 31, claiming it would not compromise our supply? She can't have it both ways. We don't have enough; we have enough and it won't compromise it.\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement): Mr. Chair, we are operating in a highly competitive global environment, and the reality is that we need to make sure we have multiple complementary supply chains operating at the same time, which we have been doing in the past weeks and months, to ensure our front-line health care workers have the supplies they need to keep Canadians safe. That's our priority. That's what we're working on.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: Unfortunately, this question was directed to the health minister, referencing things she actually stated in terms of the availability of our supplies. Before the she signed off on the donationand it was the health minister who signed off on the donationdid she consult with the health ministers in the provinces and territories?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, as the member opposite knows, provinces and territories have their own stockpiles, which of course they use to prepare for incidences of outbreak and other illnesses across their jurisdictions. We've worked very closely with the provinces and territories since the beginning of the outbreak to make sure we can provide any particular additional support. In fact, of all the requests made so far, we have been able to complete them.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: Health care workers are now having to look at modified full-face snorkels as an alternative to N95 masks. Did it not occur to the minister that our hospitals and care homes could have used that PPE she shipped out, providing a longer opportunity for them to also get procurement done?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, as the member opposite knows, the equipment that was donated when China was in its outbreak was an important donation of nearly expired or expired goods that it was in desperate need of in its effort to try to contain the virus. As the member opposite knows, we've been able to work successfully with provinces and territories to ensure they have what they need.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: Mr. Chair, I would suggest that during February and March our hospitals would have consumed that almost-expired product very efficiently, but I want to move on to another topic. When defending the sale of 22 seniors' homes to the Chinese government, the Prime Minister stated that we have a strong regulatory regime that imposes rigorous standards. He said that this regime ensures the care our seniors get is top quality. That was in 2017. Now he states he is saddened, shocked, disappointed and angered. Was the Prime Minister completely oblivious to the risks, or was he just too anxious to please the Chinese government when he sold those 22 homes?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, the homes the member opposite is referring to are in the province of B.C., and I have to commend the province for the early work it did to protect seniors in those long-term care homes. The member opposite is trying to confuse the issue. As she knows, the review we did was entirely separate from the standards to which the province holds the care homes.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: The Prime Minister does not have authority over seniors' homes, which he has clearly stated, but he does have authority over the act in which he approved the sale. At 18 months, government had an obligation to make sure there was compliance. Was that done?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, the long-term care homes in each province fall within the jurisdiction of their own particular act, and those provinces and territories are responsible for fulfilling the inspections required under that act.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: Under the Investment Canada Act, the government is obligated to review the sale for compliance. Four homes had to close. Since the government approved the sale, it is complicit in the care of our seniors in this country\nHon. Navdeep Bains (Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry): Mr. Chair, I want to make it very clear that we understand how difficult this is for seniors. That is why we follow the appropriate steps, outlined under the Investment Canada Act, to make sure that any measures we take keep seniors and their well-being first and foremost.\nThe Chair: Mr.Therrien, you now have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien (La Prairie, BQ): Mr.Chair, during the pandemic, the government has given money to companies that don't pay a cent in tax because they use tax havens. We told the government that it didn't make sense. The government's response was that it is no big deal. During the pandemic, the government gave money to Air Canada, but Air Canada never reimbursed customers who did not get the services they paid for. We told the government that it did not make sense. The government's response was that it was no big deal. During the pandemic, the Liberal Party used the emergency wage subsidy to fund partisan activities. We told them that it did not make sense. The government responded that it was no big deal. Is the moral of the story that the government thinks that dipping into the pockets of taxpayers to spend money carelessly is no big deal?\n",
      "Hon. Diane Lebouthillier (Minister of National Revenue): Mr.Chair, the fight against tax evasion is a priority for our government. We will continue to target companies that use tax evasion schemes. Let me be clear: in everything we do, we will target companies and not innocent workers. Employees are employees, no matter who they work for.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: Mr.Chair, when I see that it's the Minister of National Revenue answering me, I don't feel like buying a lottery ticket. The Liberal Party used two airplanes in its last election campaign, which seems to indicate that it isn't short of money. However, the Liberals used the emergency wage subsidy. Why? Is it because they want taxpayers to fund a third airplane?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we think it's very important to protect employees across the country and in every economic sector that's experiencing a significant drop in income. That's the approach we've taken to protect people and to ensure that there will be jobs in the future. We will continue this approach.\nMr. Alain Therrien: It's especially important to protect the employees who work for the Liberals to ensure their re-election, yet the Liberal Party has raised more than $7million since the last election. Is the party in jeopardy? Can it go bankrupt?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, as I said, our approach is to protect employees. We think that this principle is very important and that this approach must be maintained in order to have a better job market in the future.\nMr. Alain Therrien: Mr.Chair, we still don't know exactly how much money the Liberals took from the cookie jar. We think they may have taken as much as $1million. How many SMEs could have been saved with the $1million that the Liberals took out of the jar and took away from SMEs?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we appreciate the question. We are protecting hundreds of thousands of SMEs through the emergency wage subsidy, the Canada emergency response benefit and all our programs. We will continue this approach to help SMEs and their employees.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: Mr.Chair, I will propose a choice of answers, or I won't get any. When did the government decide to use the emergency wage subsidy? Now here are three possible answers. The first possible answer is that when the Liberals brought in the emergency wage subsidy, they set parameters allowing them to use it. The second is that when the Liberals saw the Conservative Partywhich is as rich as they are, but also sanctimonious and self-righteoustake advantage of the subsidy, they thought they could do it too. The third possible answer is that the Liberals hadn't planned to use the subsidy, but they pounced on the cookie jar when they saw it, because that's what they do.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we continue to think it is very important to protect employees in every sector of the economy and across Canada. That's our approach, and I believe it's the right one to protect and preserve jobs across the country during a pandemic.\nThe Chair: We are now going to suspend the proceedings for a few seconds to allow the employees who provide support for the meeting to replace each other safely.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC)): We will now resume the discussion.  We'll continue with Ms. Khalid, the honourable member for MississaugaErin Mills.\n",
      "Ms. Iqra Khalid (MississaugaErin Mills, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for PickeringUxbridge. Mr. Chair, when the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces stepped in to provide support to five long-term care homes in Ontario at the request of the premier, they released a report that outlined their findings in detail. Military members witnessed residents' cries for help going unanswered. They saw force-feeding. They saw bug infestations, a lack of personal protective equipment and neglect. Canadians are shaken. They are appalled by the horrific conditions outlined in the military report. Almost 1,000 seniors so far have lost their lives in long-term care homes in Ontario alone, over 25 of them in my riding of MississaugaErin Mills. These deaths could have been prevented. Can the Minister of Health please update the House on how our federal government is working with the provinces and territories to prevent further tragic occurrences from happening at long-term care homes and to ensure that our most vulnerable seniors are properly looked after and cared for?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, it's such an important question. I believe all Canadians were deeply horrified to read the details from the Canadian Armed Forces on the conditions in long-term care homes in Ontario. What's happening to seniors in Ontario is completely unacceptable. The report is very troubling. Seniors deserve to live with dignity, with respect and with safety. While long-term care is provincially regulated, we know that we need to work together. The Government of Canada stands ready to support provinces and territories as they continue to respond to this crisis. I had a very good conversation with my provincial and territorial counterparts last night about the work we can do at a national level to support their important work. We also know that seniors want to stay at home longer. That's why our historic investment of $6 billion in home care was so important. We'll continue to work with the provinces and territories to ensure that they get the care and dignity they deserve.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go now to Ms. O'Connell.\n",
      "Ms. Jennifer O'Connell (PickeringUxbridge, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will sadly report that my community of Pickering has experienced the largest number of deaths at a single COVID-19 outbreak location anywhere in this country. Seventy residents at Orchard Villa long-term care home died during this pandemic. It was a devastating blow to our community. Yesterday, we received the horrific report from the Canadian Armed Forces detailing what they witnessed at Orchard Villa in Pickering, Altamont Care Community in Scarborough, Eatonville Care Centre in Etobicoke, Hawthorne Place in North York, and Holland Christian Homes' Grace Manor in Brampton. The loved ones of those who have passed away, as well as the homes' workers, have asked for a full public inquiry from the Ontario government. I know that the responsibility for these facilities falls within provincial jurisdiction, but on behalf of our communities, can the Minister of Health update us on the work she is doing to ensure that the Ontario government takes action immediately and initiates a full, independent, non-partisan public inquiry and reverses its decision to create a government-led commission that won't even start until September?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I would say that all Canadians were shocked and horrified to hear about the conditions that existed in these particular care homes. We're so grateful to the members of the armed forces who not only improved conditions but also reported them quickly and appropriately to ensure amelioration of those conditions for those particular individuals. We also know that there are seniors all across the country who are struggling with care and with the appropriate level of care. We have to do better as a country. These are our loved ones. These are our parents and our grandparents. These are the people in our lives who have given so much to us. I stand committed to working with my provincial and territorial counterparts to ensure that we do better as a society. We know that there's a role we can play at the federal level with advice, with guidance, with support and, yes, with investments. We look forward to having those conversations about how best we can improve the care for all seniors amongst us.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go now to Mr. Davies from Vancouver Kingsway.\n",
      "Mr. Don Davies (Vancouver Kingsway, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canadians were horrified to hear the report yesterday from our armed forces about the appalling conditions experienced by seniors in our long-term care homes. Page after page detailed the filth, neglect, abuse and danger our seniors in care are exposed to on a daily basis. Shockingly they face injury and death through missed medications, expired medications, unsterile devices and violations of basic contagion rules to stop the spread of COVID-19. Given that evidence of possible criminal conduct was contained in the military's report, will the minister refer this matter to the RCMP for investigation immediately?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, thanks very much to the member for those expressions of concern, which we share. We understand in long-term care facilities both seniors and persons living with a disability face unique challenges, and the findings of this report are in fact deeply concerning and completely unacceptable. Considering the severity of this report, we promptly shared it with the Province of Ontario, and the Province of Ontario has initiated an investigation based on the report's findings. Their investigation includes alerting the province's chief coroner who has the authority to alert the police of jurisdiction. We will continue to work with the province to protect those living in long-term care facilities, and we continue to support them through the deployment of our outstanding Canadian Armed Forces and in our partnership with the Red Cross.\n",
      "Mr. Don Davies: Mr. Chair, that's a shocking answer considering there's clear evidence of criminal conduct and negligence in this. That this federal government is not taking immediate steps to refer this to the nation's RCMP is unacceptable. The seniors care crisis is a national problem. COVID-19 has exposed critical vulnerabilities across Canada's entire network of long-term care facilities. Not a single province or territory currently meets the benchmark of 4.1 hours of hands-on care per day. As a result Canada has the worst record of COVID-19 deaths in long-term care among 14 comparable countries, with over 80% of Canadian fatalities occurring in these facilities. Will this government move swiftly to establish binding national standards for long-term care?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, the member opposite is exactly correct when he says that those who are hardest hit in terms of losing their lives and the negative effects of COVID are those who are living in long-term care homes. He's also correct when he indicates that COVID-19 has shown us what many of us have known for a long time, that we need to do better in long-term care and supports for seniors. As the member knows, we started those steps some four years ago or so when we began to make incredible investments in aging at home. We know that is one part of the solution, but we have to do better for those seniors who need a higher level of care. That's the work I'm doing now. I'm working with my colleagues at the provinces and territories to make sure that we come up with a solution that will truly result in better standards for all.\n",
      "Mr. Don Davies: Mr. Chair, what we need is binding national standards, just like we set through the Canada Health Act in the health care sector generally. Gross fecal contamination, filthy medical equipment, insect infestations, ignoring patient cries for hourswe would never tolerate these conditions in Canada's hospitals. There's no reason to accept them in Canada's long-term care facilities. Will the minister move to bring long-term care facilities under the Canada Health Act, or similar legislation, with formal funds tied to acceptable standards of care for our seniors, just like we do for hospitals?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, the member shares the disgust and concern of so many Canadians across the country, not only those who have read the report but many of those who have struggled to provide care to elders in those long-term care homes, regardless of the province in which they live. We know we need to do better. We know that collectively, at all levels of government, we must do better for those people who cared for us and nurtured us all of those years. The member has my commitment that I will work with provinces and territories to find a solution forward to ensure that every person has the right to age with dignity and safety.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. Davies, you have 15 seconds for another question, a short one, and leave time for a response.\nMr. Don Davies: Thank you, Mr. Chair. These failures are the product of systemic neglect often motivated by prioritizing profit over the provision of adequate care. Does the minister agree that we should not be putting profits above the health care needs of Canada's seniors?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I believe that, when we commit to taking care of people, we must do so with the utmost care that is required. I know that provinces and territories have a lot of work to do. So do we, at the federal level, and obviously at the local level. We must all work together to protect those people in our lives who are most vulnerable, whether they be seniors, children or others.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now move on to Mr. Schmale, HaliburtonKawartha LakesBrock. Mr. Schmale, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Jamie Schmale (HaliburtonKawartha LakesBrock, CPC): Thank you, Chair. According to Vaughn Palmer in an editorial in the Vancouver Sun regarding the secret Wet'suwet'en deal, Palmer writes:     The hereditary chiefs calculated the two governments would sign despite the objections from the elected chiefs. They likewise got the terms they wanted in the MOU while giving up absolutely nothing. Just as they figured governments would keep the contents secret from the public.   Can the minister describe another situation in which the federal government negotiated a secret deal of this magnitude with unelected people?\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett (Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations): I thank the member for his ongoing concern and I want to remind him that actually it is in keeping with the Supreme Court decision of 1997 that we were to now begin those conversations with the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs who took the case to the Supreme Court. As we've said many times, this is not an agreement; this is an MOU that establishes the path forward for the substantive discussions towards a final agreement, which would describe the future governance and the implementation of Wet'suwet'en rights and title. It is about a shared commitment.\n",
      "Mr. Jamie Schmale: Mr. Chair, if it is a shared commitment, why on the eve of the signing ceremony did the four elected chiefs denounce the hereditary chiefs for keeping them in the dark?\nHon. Carolyn Bennett: Again, it's really important that the member understand that there was a process for the hereditary chiefs to go back to their communities and discuss with them. Any agreement after the good work that will happen now would have to go back and seek the approval of all of the communities.\n",
      "Mr. Jamie Schmale: Mr. Chair, the Burns Lake Band members are openly wondering if they're still a band or if the few unelected hereditary chiefs will control everything now. Minister, can you assure them that going forward you will honour their concerns and take the time to listen?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I ask honourable members to still direct their questions through the chair. The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett: Actually, the honourable member knows that the next steps include the further and ongoing engagement by the Wet'suwet'en in their house groups and that will include the six elected chiefs of the Wet'suwet'en nation, their community members and many others. This is about going forward and making sure that any\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We go back to Mr. Schmale.\n",
      "Mr. Jamie Schmale: Thank you, Chair. Cynthia Joseph, a chief councillor with the Hagwilget First Nation says the MOU between Ottawa, the province and the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs was only shared with her community members on May 9, two days after it was published in the media. Is this part of the open and transparent government all Canadians can expect of the Prime Minister?\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett: Walking the path of reconciliation means that we work with our partners and there is a way that they do the work within their communities. It is going to be an agreement to begin the work, but any final agreement is going to have to be approved by all members of the nation in terms of developing a consensus for the agreement\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We go back to Mr. Schmale.\nMr. Jamie Schmale: Thank you, Chair. Does the minister have any concerns regarding claims by several former female hereditary chiefs that they were stripped of their hereditary status because they didn't agree with the men?\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett: Again, it is going to be really important that the work take place within the Wet'suwet'en nation to determine their future governance, to determine their way of working with Canada and to make sure\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We go back to Mr. Schmale.\n",
      "Mr. Jamie Schmale: Thank you, Chair. For some reason it seems to be a problem to stand up for these hereditary female chiefs who had their titles taken away. Does the minister plan on recognizing band council resolutions denying the authority of hereditary chiefs to sign any future agreements without consent of the elected chiefs and the 3,000 members within the Wet'suwet'en they represent?\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett: I think the member must understand that, as we begin the work, the nation will do its work and then we will come to the table to determine what the governance would be. Will it be a hybrid model like at Heiltsuk, like Ktunaxa, like some of the communities developing their constitutions, developing their laws and deciding how they will determine their own governance and that partnership with Canada?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Paul-Hus.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (CharlesbourgHaute-Saint-Charles, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. The current restrictions on non-essential travel at the border do not prevent people from claiming refugee protection if they have family in Canada. Why is the minister refusing to allow married people to cross the border?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I want to thank the honourable member for a very important question. We have heard from many constituents and members of Parliament from right across the country who are expressing concern about non-status spouses being denied entry into the country because their travel is deemed to be non-essential. I've recently been in touch with all of the provinces and territories because I think it's very important that we have their support for any changes\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Paul-Hus, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: If I understand correctly, Mr.Minister, you are talking to provincial representatives, but a case like that of ChantalTremblay, for instance, is unacceptable. For two months now, she has been trying to bring her spouse to Canada, but it isn't working. Is there a way to issue a directive to border services officers that married spousesit's often marriages with Americanscan cross the border to join their spouses in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Just to be very clearagain, I thank the member opposite for the opportunity to clarify thisit is never our intention to separate families, but at the same time, we have imposed appropriate and necessary restrictions on non-essential travel. Our border services officers inquire of everyone coming to that border about the nature of their travel, and for non-citizens who come to that border seeking entry into Canada, if their entry is deemed non-essential, then they exercise their discretion not to allow\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Paul-Hus, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Thank you, Mr.Chair. Information from the Canada Border Services Agency has just come out. Since March21, 425,000people have flown into Canada. Among them were 295,000Canadians, which isn't a problem. However, 100,000foreigners have entered Canada, even though the border is supposedly closed. How does the minister explain the fact that 100,000people arrived in Canada by plane?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Again, I thank the member opposite for the opportunity to clarify. We have imposed very significant restrictions on non-essential travel, but of course there are circumstances where individuals come to this country and their entry into Canada is deemed essential. For example, someone who is providing medical services and coming into Canada to provide those services would be deemed essential, because there is a great need among Canadians for those services. It's dealt with on a case-by-case basis. As you can see by the numbers, we have had a very significant reduction in the travel of all non-Canadians to Canada over the past two months.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: So the minister confirms that the 100,000people who arrived by air were providing a service considered essential to Canada. I'm not talking about the people who crossed the land border, but the people who came to Canada by air.\nHon. Bill Blair: What I can tell you is that at all points of entry, including our air borders, we apply the standard that the travel must be deemed essential, and that determination is utilized to see if a person is eligible to enter into the country.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: We're now learning that the Correctional Service of Canada's investigation into the murder of MarylneLevesque is suspended due to the COVID-19 outbreak. Canadians aren't fooled; they know full well that it is a political decision. All the technological means are available to allow the investigation to continue. I'm proof of that today. Can the minister direct the Correctional Service of Canada to resume the investigation into the death of MarylneLevesque?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Again, I thank the member for the question, because we know the concern of the people of Quebec, and the family of Ms. Levesque needs answers and deserves answers. That's why we asked the Parole Board and the Correctional Service of Canada to convene a board of investigation. Clearly, during COVID transmission, the ability to conduct that investigation and to interview all of the witnesses became extremely difficult and has been temporarily suspended, but at the very earliest opportunity we remain resolute to resume that investigation and get to the bottom of it to provide the answers that the family deserves.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Paul-Hus, you have only 20seconds remaining.\nMr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Mr.Chair, victims of crime are one of the segments of the population most affected by the crisis. As we know, the government refuses to allow victims of crime to participate in parole hearings. For the first time in its history, and to add insult to injury, the government has cancelled all activities related to Victims and Survivors of Crime Week, which was to take place next week. Why is the Prime Minister turning his back on victims?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Again, at the earliest days of COVID, until arrangements could be put in place, there were restrictions on victims participating. We have put the systems in place to allow victims to present their evidence virtually, either by video or by phone, to ensure that their voices are heard in these important things. We very much respect and support the role of victims in these determinations, and we're making every effort to ensure that they can participate.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now to Mr. Cumming, Edmonton Centre.\n",
      "Mr. James Cumming (Edmonton Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, yesterday I asked the Minister of Small Business how many business credit availability guarantees were issued by EDC, and I didn't get a number. Does she have an exact, finite, number of the guarantees today?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, thank you to the honourable member for that question. Our government has taken swift and immediate action to support Canadian businesses through this time. Money from this program is flowing, and businesses across the country are receiving the important support that they need.\nMr. James Cumming: How many BCAP applications have been received so far?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, these are large loans, and they require important due diligence and adjudication by the financial institutions. We will continue to be open and transparent as the accurate information becomes available.\nMr. James Cumming: How long does it take to be approved for a BCAP guarantee?\nHon. Mary Ng: I want to assure the member that we're going to do everything possible to support businesses and workers during this very important time.\nMr. James Cumming: How many businesses have received funding under the BCAP co-lending program since March?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: The lending programs, particularly the program to help small businesses, have really helped lots of businesses. Over 630,000 loans have been issued, and this is really helping those\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We go back to Mr. Cumming.\nMr. James Cumming: Unfortunately, lots is not an answer for the businesses that I'm trying to talk to. Can you tell me, for the CEBA changes that were recently announced, when will we be able to see people who have income through a dividend able to apply?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: That's a very important question, Mr. Chair. There's nothing more important to me and to our government than getting these supports out to businesses. Those small businesses that will meet the expanded CEBA criteria are working very diligently with the financial institutions to make sure that they can get access to those loans as quickly as possible.\nMr. James Cumming: Can the minister give me a day when that will happen?\nHon. Mary Ng: The financial institutions are working very hard to make sure that they can make this available to businesses.\nMr. James Cumming: When will a sole proprietor be able to go for those loans?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: We will work very hard and very diligently to make sure that these businesses and those sole proprietors are supported.\nMr. James Cumming: Could they go on Monday?\nHon. Mary Ng: There is nothing more important than making sure these businesses weather the difficult time of COVID-19, and our measures are\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Mr. Cumming.\nMr. James Cumming: How about Tuesday?\nHon. Mary Ng: I think we will all agree that getting support to these businesses is absolutely crucial. Our commitment is always going to be to get support to these businesses.\n",
      "Mr. James Cumming: I can't get a distinct answer on any of those questions. Can you tell me how much headroom is left on the CEBA program?\nHon. Mary Ng: Today, over 630,000 businesses have received the support to do things like pay for salaries, the 25% top-up for the wage subsidy, pay for rent and pay for insurance and utilities. This is what these loans are helping our small\nMr. James Cumming: How many dollars are left in the program so businesses can have some certainty that the program will be available for some time?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: I think you will see that the businesses across the country that I have talked to really appreciate that the government has stepped up to help them during this difficult time. These include women with businesses, indigenous-owned businesses and those small businesses all across our communities, all across the country, that are getting the necessary help. We are going to keep\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Mr. Cumming.\nMr. James Cumming: How many dollars? It can't be that complicated. How many dollars?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: There are 630,000 businesses that are getting help, and thousands more businesses will be getting help with the expanded criteria. We're going to keep doing the work that we need to help our businesses across this country through this difficult time.\nMr. James Cumming: I heard from a constituent in my riding that they waited for over four hours on the portal for CECRA. Is there an issue with the portal, and if so, when will it be fixed?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Making sure that businesses get the help for commercial rent support is absolutely crucial right now. We are going to endeavour to make sure that this help gets out to those small businesses. Applications have opened in a staggered way and\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have time for one last short question, Mr. Cumming.\nMr. James Cumming: Finally, the Prime Minister yesterday said that a list of all organizations that have been receiving CEWS will be made public. When will that be done?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: We have committed to making sure that those companies taking the wage subsidy program will be listed publicly. We have committed to doing that and we will do so.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We now go to Mr. d'Entremont from West Nova. Mr. d'Entremont, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont (West Nova, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries, but I thought I would say this first. The Canadian Coast Guard is doing a search at this moment following the loss of a vessel off the coast of Newfoundland. From my community, which is a seafaring, fishing community, I just want to put my thoughts out there to the folks of Newfoundland. We are definitely thinking of them during this difficult time. My first question revolves around the lobster fishery. It's been open in Cape Breton since May 15, I believe. The weather has been good. The harvesters have been going at it every day. The price has dropped to $4.25 already. Unstable markets will probably cause it to drop even more. What is the minister doing to make sure the lobster industry survives?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank my colleague for his comments with regard to the tragic accident off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, where we saw the loss of life in a fishing accident. Of course, as coastal people, we are all in solidarity with the people of Newfoundland right now. We know that the fish and seafood sector has taken extreme hits because of COVID-19. We're working diligently to make sure we support the industry as best we can. We have made available over half a billion dollars to processors and harvesters to make sure they can weather this storm. We have made sure that the harvesters are able to access the harvester benefit as well as the grant, recognizing the unique nature of their business and how they are not able to access some of our other programs. We are continuing to monitor what is happening in the industry. We will continue to make sure we do everything we can to support the fish and seafood sector.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Mr. Chair, to continue along this vein for a moment, we are still looking at unstable markets for a longer period of time. At this point, processors are being selective in what they're buying. They're not buying culls and other kinds of lobsters. The plants are filling up, and harvesters are worried that they might stop buying product before the season is complete. What can the fishermen expect, or what kinds of programs can they expect, if the season goes bust?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, we know that this is a very challenging season for our harvesters. We also know that because of the decline in markets, we've had to make accommodations for the processing sector in order to help them be better able to support the harvesters. We have put in $62.5 million, which is allowing the processors to increase capacity in their refrigeration and freezers so that they will continue to be able to purchase product. As I said earlier, we will continue to monitor the situation and make sure we do everything possible to support our harvesters. This is a very difficult\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go back to Mr. d'Entremont.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Mr. Chair, I don't know whether this next question will go to the Minister of DFO or the Minister of Transport. Oakley Ryerson is a resident of West Nova. He is planning a career on the sea and wants to get his master class four. The problem is that he can't pass the eye exam. He needs full-colour vision. For those who are far-sighted or nearsighted, you just have to put on your glasses to correct it. You can actually fly airplanes. I don't know about space shuttles, but who knows? You can now wear colour-corrected lenses, but Transport Canada still does not recognize these for use. Can the Minister of Transport help Ryerson in attaining his chosen profession?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport): Mr. Chair, I appreciate the concern of my colleague for one of the residents in his riding. I would ask him to write to me and lay out the situation. We have medical standards with respect to a number of different kinds of transportation-related jobs for pilots, mariners and those kinds of occupations, which have to be respected. However, if he sends me the details, I will look into it personally.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr. d'Entremont, you have another 20 to 25 seconds left.\n",
      "Mr. Chris d'Entremont: Mr.Chair, the eligibility criteria for financial support include the need to demonstrate a significant loss of income during the months of March and April, yet several SMEs in the tourism industry can't qualify because their operations start with the tourist season, in late May or early June. What will the government do to help them?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, before accessing the emergency wage subsidy, applicants must meet important criteria. However, as we explained last week, we will be adjusting the wage subsidy until the end of August, and we will be reviewing the criteria.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're going to go to the west coast and the member for SaanichGulf Islands. Ms. May, go ahead.\nMs. Elizabeth May: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is with regard to the urgent problem of mental health crises across Canada. My colleague, Jenica Atwin from Fredericton, held a press conference this morning in which she used the term echo pandemic. We will face an echo pandemic. We're already seeing increases in suicides on southern Vancouver Island. My question to the minister is this: Will we see direct funding to community mental health services as urgently requested by the Canadian Mental Health Association?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I read the honourable member's colleague's letter just today, and I want to reassure all members that we have invested in mental health supports for Canadians, obviously before the pandemic hit but certainly since we've been living with the pandemic. I'd like to remind all members to direct their constituents to the wellnesstogether.ca website and portal. There Canadians can find online resources, as well as connections to real and alive counsellors and other professionals who can help them with their various concerns.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: This question relates to another current emergency: the climate emergency. This week it was reported that the concentration of greenhouse gases reached 417 parts per million. That's not just unprecedented over thousands of years; that's unprecedented over the last one million years. The temperatures in the Arctic broke 86F, 30C in the Arctic circle. The recognized parties in the House have established standing committees to work, but not the committee on the environment. We've asked for this in negotiations. When will the recognized parties remember the June 2019 emergency resolution that we are in a climate emergency, and start making sure that we hit 2020 commitments under the Paris Agreement to improve our targets?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my colleague's questions. I will remind her that we have committed to net-zero emissions by 2050. We've also committed to surpassing the targets that we had originally set for 2030. We realize that along with the COVID pandemic, which is the major problem that exists in the world today, there is another problem as well that affects the entire planet, and that is the problem associated with climate change. We remain committed to achieving those targets.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: My next question will be for Minister Blair, but as an aside, I will say that last answer completely fails to meet the legal requirements of the Paris Agreement to file a new target this year. To save some time, Minister Blair, let's pretend to go back to the questions from my colleague MP Paul-Hus and to your last answer. This is dealt with on a case-by-case basis by CBSA agents. There are thousands of them. They are exercising personal, subjective judgment. This is not acceptable. I'm begging the minister. Could the minister please put out a directive, advice to every CBSA agent on the ground, that when a non-status entry point sees a non-status direct relativehusband, wife, child of a Canadian citizenthat relative be deemed to be entering Canada for an essential purpose?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I'd like to thank the member for bringing this issue forward again. It's an important one. We have been working very hard to ensure that we do everything possible to keep families together. At the same time, we've been working with the provinces and territories, listening to the concerns of Canadians about ensuring that travel across our international border, particularly with the United States, is limited to essential travel. As I've indicated, I've had a number of important conversations and necessary conversations with our provincial and territorial partners. I believe there is a consensus on the right way forward on this, and we're working very diligently to put it in place. I want to assure the member opposite that we have given very clear direction to our CBSA officers. I believe our border services officers have been doing an extraordinary job for us in the exercise of their discretion. At the same time, they have been doing the important work of ensuring the health and safety of Canadians at our border.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We're now going to Ms. Kwan for Vancouver East. Ms. Kwan, go ahead.\nMs. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP): Four out of the five homes listed in the armed forces report were for-profit. It is painfully clear that corporate profits are being put ahead of the well-being of seniors. Will the minister admit that the for-profit model is failing our loved ones and commit to getting profits out of long-term care?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: As the member opposite notes, nobody can read that report or hear those stories without feeling absolute horror and disgust and without demanding better for the elders in our lives. As I have mentioned many times in the House, our government remains committed to working with provinces and territories to ensure that every elder person in our community can age with dignity and in safety.\nMs. Jenny Kwan: Minister, if that's the case, I will ask again. Will the minister make sure that the focus of long-term care homes is taking care of seniors and not taking care of owners' bank accounts?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: As the member will obviously know, long-term care remains in the jurisdiction of provinces and territories, and there is legislation that rules them as such. As the member also knows, we have stood by Ontario and all of the other provinces and territories throughout this outbreak. The Prime Minister has been very clear\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will go back to Ms. Kwan.\nMs. Jenny Kwan: Is the minister refusing to answer the question because she agrees that profit should come before care?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: I think it's unfortunate that the member is trying to place words in my mouth. What I do agree with, though, is that long-term care needs to be reformed, and I think all provinces and territories know, and all Canadians know, that we have to do a better job.\nMs. Jenny Kwan: It's simple for the minister. She can just answer the question. Is she willing to defend for-profit care for our seniors? Is she in favour of for-profit private health care too?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: What I am willing to defend is the right for all Canadians to age with safety and dignity.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: To the minister, what is the difference? Why sell out the care of our seniors? Will she commit that she will take profit out of long-term care?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I think the member opposite knows that the only way to actually reform long-term care is to work with provinces and territories, in fact, all levels of government, to ensure that the people who spent their lives caring for and nurturing us can end their lives with caring and nurturing\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will go back to Ms. Kwan.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: I think the minister knows that what we need is national standards for seniors' care. The Revera long-term care homes are owned by the Public Sector Pension Investment Board. Since the government owns these homes, has the military been sent in there to see what's happening to seniors under their care?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, we know that it is important to work with all of the provinces and territories under whose jurisdiction it falls to protect the seniors within those care homes. That's what we've been doing since the beginning of the outbreak of the coronavirus, and that's what we'll continue to do to protect the lives of seniors and strengthen their protection. We will, as I said, Mr. Chair, work with the provinces and territories to have a longer-term plan so that all seniors can age with dignity and safety.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: The government has a clear responsibility here. What is the government doing to ensure the standards of care in these Revera homes that they own?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, as I have repeatedly said, the jurisdiction for care of long-term care homes falls within the provincial and territorial realm. However, that being said, Mr. Chair, we have been there for provinces and territories since the outbreak of the coronavirus, and as the member opposite has clearly or likely heard the Prime Minister say, we will stand with provinces and territories as all elders have the right to age with dignity\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We go back to Ms. Kwan.\nMs. Jenny Kwan: I didn't hear an answer, Mr. Chair, so the answer is nothing, then. Do you think that the families of the seniors in these homes want to hear those excuses about jurisdictional issues? Does the minister not think that the families want to hear that the federal government is doing all it can to care for their parents?\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I would remind the members to direct their questions through the chair. The honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Quite frankly, I don't think that families care which level of government is responsible for caring for their elders. I think what they care about is that their elders are cared for. That's in fact what the Prime Minister believes. That's in fact what our government believes, and that's why we have willingly stepped up to say to provinces and territories that we will be there with you to make sure that all seniors in our lives have the right to age with dignity and care.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now give the floor to Mrs.Gill, from the riding of Manicouagan. Go ahead, Mrs.Gill.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill (Manicouagan, BQ): Mr.Chair, my question is for the Prime Minister who, earlier, clearly told us that the government's assistance is intended for those who are most in need and most vulnerable. I come from a riding where a lot of people make their living from the tourism industry. I don't know if the PrimeMinister read the newspapers yesterday, but in Quebec, losses to the tune of $4billion are expected until March2021 in the tourism accommodation sector alone. The service sector will lose 93,000jobs. How can I justify to my constituents the fact that a political party, which does not need it, has already seen money from the emergency wage subsidy, when people in my riding don't yet have access to it because of the seasonal nature of their work? These people haven't seen the money that is available through these programs.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: We think it is very important to protect the country's employees in all sectors of the economy. Through this approach, there will be more jobs after the pandemic, and the economic situation will be better. We will continue this approach.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Mr.Chair, this is the wrong approach. They are saying that they are protecting the jobs of the Liberal Party of Canada, which does not need the money. I'll ask a question similar to the previous one. Fishers in my riding did not qualify for the emergency wage subsidy. Another program was created for them, which isn't quite the same and doesn't really meet their needs. A government whose political wingnot the parliamentary wingdoesn't really need money takes money from the fund, but leaves fishers to make do with less generous programs that don't meet their needs. What do I tell the fishers in my riding?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we know that many sectors of the economy across the country are facing challenges. That's why we have adopted an approach with consistent criteria for all employees in all sectors. We have also introduced specific measures to help certain sectors, such as the fishing industry. We will continue our approach because we believe it's the best way to protect employees and our economy.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Mr.Chair, I'm still not satisfied. The government is saying that the best way to proceed is to give money to the political wing of the Liberal Party of Canada, when there are people who are getting nothing. What am I supposed to tell seasonal workers, who have absolutely no assurances for their future? I can't go back to my riding and say I'm proud of the work the government is doing or our efforts in the House. It's true, the House is closed right now. I forgot. I have a very hard time accepting that the government is helping employees of the Liberal Party in preparation for the next election campaign, when communities in my region are dying because their economies revolve around a single industry. I can't tell them I'm not ashamed of what's going on as we speak.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, we felt it was necessary to put emergency programs in place in response to the crisis during the pandemic. That is our approach. The emergency wage subsidy is a program that is clearly meant to ensure employees are protected and maintain their relationship with their employer. As for the Canada emergency response benefit, it means a lot to people who don't have a job. We are going to stick to our approach, which is to use consistent criteria to help all employees and all Canadians around the country struggling in any sector of the economy.\n",
      "Mrs. Marilne Gill: Mr.Chair, I think the honourable Minister of Finance lives in an ivory tower. No, he is not protecting all jobs. No, he is not protecting all sectors of the economy. Once again, I will say that a party that doesn't need money has already received subsidies. However, people who need that money, people who are actually losing money or who don't know if they'll even be working this summer are getting zilch. There is absolutely no justifying that. I'd at least like to know whether the government is ashamed of what it's doing. When people have a conscience, eventually, they want to make up for their mistakes. Are the Liberals going to return that money? Is the finance minister going to help all sectors of the economy, including tourism, fisheries and seasonal industries?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr.Chair, I'd like to thank the member for her question. Our approach is based on consistent criteria. The emergency wage subsidy is meant for any sector of the economy where revenues have dropped by 30% or more. The measure is hugely important for organizations that are really struggling, because we can protect their workers. We are also providing the Canada emergency response benefit to other employees, meaning, those who have lost their income because of COVID-19. Consequently, we will keep up our approach to ensure we continue to fare as well as possible and the economy works well after the pandemic.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Now we'll go to our last group of interventions, and that will be from Ms. Jansen in CloverdaleLangley City. Ms. Jansen, go ahead.\n",
      "Mrs. Tamara Jansen (CloverdaleLangley City, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to begin with a shout-out to the brave waiters and waitresses at our local Earls restaurant and Browns Socialhouse, who have been opened again for on-site dining this week. Here in B.C. we're beginning to find our new normal, and it was great to see how small businesses have so quickly adapted their establishments to keep their workers and patrons safe while allowing people to get back to the business of living. You guys rock. Thanks for taking the lead. Mr. Chair, here in my riding I recently had contact with the mayor of Langley City who was wondering if I had any way of accessing personal protective gear, because our local firefighters were running out of stock. Then again yesterday, I spoke with one of our local homeless shelters that is also looking for PPE. Dr. Tam is telling all Canadians to wear masks in public, but I'm wondering if the Minister of Public Service and Procurement could tell us where exactly we're going to get all those masks with the current shortage.\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: I want to be clear that our priority as a federal government has been to respond to provincial and territorial requests for PPE that goes to front-line health care workers. That is our priority, and we've been procuring goods aggressively in domestic and international markets. We are now actively also exploring ways in which we can assist broader organizations across the country with PPE needs, and that is something that I'll continue to update the House on as we go forward.\n",
      "Mrs. Tamara Jansen: A Globe and Mail article revealed that government orders for N95 masks have steadily been dropping. We've gone from over 200 million ordered to 100 million, according to a federal source. Mr. Chair, the number of N95 masks ordered, as reported on the department's website, does continue to fall. Will the minister tell us why we seem to continue to struggle to supply PPE to Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: It is no secret that we are in a global competition for N95 masks and other supplies, so the Government of Canada's approach is to diversify supply chains internationally and build up and retool domestic industry so that we can have these supplies going forward. In terms of the numbers on our web page, we have short-term and long-term contracts in place\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We go back to Ms. Jansen.\n",
      "Mrs. Tamara Jansen: Yes, I understand that a number of Chinese mask manufacturers have been nationalized, and products for Canadians have been confiscated by the CCP government. Is the drop in N95 orders due to, in actual fact, contracts being cancelled?\nHon. Anita Anand: On N95 masks, I would like to assure the member and the House that we have multiple contracts in place for the procurement of N95 masks, including with 3M in the United States, whose masks are crossing our border weekly over the next month.\n",
      "Mrs. Tamara Jansen: That didn't quite answer my question. Have any of our orders been cancelled by the nationalization of these manufacturers in China?\nHon. Anita Anand: We have an aide in place in China. We have our embassy and other firms actively ensuring that our supplies from the manufacturing source make their way to the warehouse. Over 40 flights have come to Canada with those masks and other supplies. Our supply chains are operating despite the global environment being highly competitive.\nMrs. Tamara Jansen: We know many millions of N95 masks have arrived in Canada from China and have been substandard. What is the total number of substandard masks that have arrived?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, as previously explained to the House, about eight million masks did not meet spec by the Public Health Agency of Canada and have been repurposed to some extent in other areas of the system.\nMrs. Tamara Jansen: In a previous committee, the deputy minister advised us that Medicom was shoulder-tapped by the government to consider producing PPE. How many other companies did the government approach for this contract?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: We have operated in a very urgent way in order to procure supplies for front-line health care workers. We are now also moving to ensure that we have competitions run for the procurement of personal protective equipment. It's a multi-pronged approach, and our priority is to get supplies out to front-line health care workers in this time of crisis as quickly as possible. Thank you so much.\n"
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  {
    "id": 68,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting started off with petitions from members that included appeals to the Government to take action on issues such as raising the minimum wage for essential workers. The members then moved on to giving statements that included recognition for people who had recently lost their lives, as well as praise and criticism for efforts by the Government and private organizations. Finally, the members quizzed ministers on various issues facing various groups such as farmers and women.",
    "docs": [
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton (Simcoe North, CPC)): Honourable members, I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 15thmeeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. This will be a hybrid meeting. Members will be participating via video conference or in person.  I will remind you that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connecting by video conference. In order to ensure that those joining the meeting via video conference can be seen and heard by those in the chamber, two screens have been set up here on either side of the Speaker's chair, and members in the chamber can listen to the floor audio or to interpretation using the earpieces on their desks. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name and please direct your remarks through the chair. For those joining by video conference, I'd like to remind you to leave your microphones on mute when you are not speaking. Also, please note that if you want to speak in English, you need to be on the English channel for interpretation, and if you want to speak French, you should do so on the French channel. Should you wish to alternate between the two languages, please change to the channel for the language that you happen to be using at the time. Should members participating by video conference need to request the floor outside their designated speaking times, they should activate their mic and state that they have a point of order. Those in the Chamber can rise in the usual way. Please note that today's proceedings will be televised in the same way as a typical sitting of the House. We will now proceed to ministerial announcements. I invite the Right Hon. Prime Minister to take the floor.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I rise today to address what so many people of colour live with every day. Over the past few days, we've seen horrific reports of police violence against black men and women south of the border, but these are not isolated incidents or elsewhere problems. Prejudice, discrimination and violence are a lived reality for far too many people. They are a result of systems that far too often condone, normalize, perpetrate and perpetuate inequality and injustice against people of colour. As a country, we are not concerned bystanders simply watching what is happening next door. We are part of it. The calls for justice, for equality and for peace are found echoed in our communities, because anti-black racism is happening here, everywhere in Canada, every single day. This is something that our own staff, cabinet ministers and colleagues face even in these halls. Over the past few days, I've heard many of these personal stories directly from them. I'm not just talking about acts of violence. I'm also talking about microaggressions, which many of us may not even see. That is the daily reality of far too many racialized Canadians, and it needs to stop. When it comes to being an ally, I have made serious mistakes in the past, mistakes that I deeply regret and continue to learn from. I want to thank my colleagues, community leaders and fellow Canadians for opening my eyes to what is really going on in our communities and for helping me better understand both privilege and power. I'm not perfect, but not being perfect is not a free pass to not do the right thing. It's not an excuse to not step up, stand up for each other, be an ally. I know that for so many people listening right now, the last thing you want to hear is another speech on racism from a white politician. I'm not here today to describe a reality I do not know or to speak to a pain I have not felt. I'm here because I want you to know that our government is listening. We hear your calls for justice, equality and accountability. We acknowledge your frustration, your anger, your heartbreak. We see you.  Since coming to office, our government has taken many concrete steps to fight anti-black racism, systemic discrimination and injustice across the country. We are working directly with the communities and their leaders to close the gaps that persist in Canada. For example, we have provided $9million to support programs for black Canadian youth. We have made significant investments to enable the Public Health Agency of Canada to provide more mental health services to people who have experienced racism or intergenerational trauma. We are helping community organizations to obtain funding to purchase equipment or lease space. We have also created the anti-racism secretariat, which has an envelope of $4.6million, to address systemic barriers, such as employment, justice and social participation, that perpetuate injustice. We have made progress, but we know the work is far from being done.  Over the past five years, our government has worked with communities to recognize and address injustices. We've taken action to support community organizations, invest in better data and fight racism. While we've made some progress, there is still so much more to do, because here are the facts in Canada: Anti-black racism is real. Unconscious bias is real. Systemic discrimination is real. For millions of Canadians, it is their daily, lived reality. The pain and damage it causes are real too. Mr. Chair, every Canadian who has felt the weight of oppression, every student who has the courage to demand a better future, every person who marches and posts and reads and fights, from Vancouver to Montreal to Halifax, expects more than the status quo. They expect more and deserve better.  The Government of Canada has a lot of work to do, but we're ready. We're ready to work with our opposition colleagues, community leaders and Canadians to make our country a more just and fair place. Racism never has a place in this country, and we will do everything we can to eradicate it from coast to coast to coast. Thank you, Mr.Chair.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable Leader of the Opposition.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Over the past week, we have all been affected by the heartbreaking killing of George Floyd in the United States. The video is painful to watch. No one should ever have to plead for help while a crime is being committed, ignored by other members of law enforcement. The tragedy triggered marches, occupations, protests and, unfortunately, riots. However, I hope it has mostly sparked conversations. Racism is real, painful and unacceptable.  No one should ever feel unsafe because of the colour of their skin, especially around police officers who have a duty and a responsibility to uphold the law for all. Here in Canada, we are fortunate to live in a country that is welcoming, tolerant and inclusive. Canada was a beacon of freedom to so many escaping slavery during the U.S. Civil War. Our nation has benefited immensely from great Canadians who overcame prejudices and discrimination to serve their communities and make Canada a better country: Lincoln Alexander, elected as a Conservative in 1968, was the first black member of Parliament and went on to become the first black cabinet minister; John Ware was born into slavery in South Carolina but, following the American Civil War, was a leading figure in bringing the first cattle to Alberta and spearheading the ranching industry that would become the backbone of the province; Josiah Henson escaped slavery to become a thriving businessman in Ontario; and of course, Viola Desmond challenged segregation in Nova Scotia. Black Canadians throughout history have not just built this nation with their contributions; they have also represented Canada with excellence and pride on the world stage, like Harry Jerome, who represented Canada in three Olympic Games and won a bronze medal in 1964. He would go on to become a teacher in British Columbia, once again serving with excellence to try to make a better world for the next generation. Throughout our history, black Canadians have put their lives on the line for their fellow Canadians, bravely serving around the world in our armed forces. While there are many things we can point to in our history with pride, that is not to say that we have a perfect record, nor that we are immune to the threat of racism or that anti-black racism is just an American problem. Canada has had its own dark episodes of racism that cannot be ignoredsadly, not just in our past. Every day, there are people who experience discrimination or racism in some form. Throughout this pandemic, we have seen a troubling spike in anti-Asian racism. No one should be attacked in their community or targeted on the bus because of the colour of their skin. Nor should places of worship be broken into and desecrated, like the synagogue in Montreal. The Conservatives condemn all acts of anti-semitism, racism and discrimination. In a peaceful and free country like Canada, there is absolutely no room for intolerance, racism or extremism of any kind.  But the violence and destruction we have seen in response are not the answer. Millions of people are protesting peacefully across the United States and in Canada, and we must always protect the rights of people who are protesting peacefully and within the law for a just cause and separate them from those who exploit tragedies to commit acts of violence. Mr. Floyd's brother, Terrence, said that violence will not bring his brother back. Instead, he has called for peace and justice and urged the crowds to educate themselves and to vote. Out of such tragedy, Mr. Chair, that is a powerful message about how each one of us can use our democratic rights to effect change. In a peaceful and free country like Canada, there is absolutely no room for intolerance, racism and extremism of any kind. We are not born believing we are better than one another. We are all created in the image and likeness of God, and because of that, we are all equal. An infinite value exists in each one of us.  Canada is an incredibly diverse country. Canada is a nation of immigrants that stands on the traditional territories of first nations, Inuit and Mtis people. Waves of newcomers have come to Canada for a better life because our country is built on a rock-solid foundation of enduring values, democratic institutions, the rule of law and fundamental and universal human rights. Everyone comes here because Canada is built on solid values, democratic institutions, and respect for the rule of law, as well as for fundamental, universal human rights. We must absolutely protect these values, because they are what sets us apart. They allow Canada to offer what so many other countries simply cannot. There are those who say that diversity is our strength, and that is true, but it doesn't quite capture the full picture. Diversity is the result of our strength, and our strength is and always has been our freedom. It is the freedom for people to preserve and pass on their cultural traditions and the opportunity to live in peace with those around them; the freedom to live your life with equality under the law, regardless of your race or ethnic background; and the economic freedom that so many governments around the world deny their people. It is that economic freedom that ensures that hard work pays off. It gives people the ability to work towards their dreams and choose their own path in life. Together, generations of Canadians who trace their roots back to countries around the world have built Canada to truly the greatest country on earth, the true north strong and free. To ensure that our people remain free, we must continue to fight attacks on our freedoms, including racism and all forms of brutality and injustice in Canada and around the world. Minority rights must be protected. Freedom of religion must be protected. Freedom of expression and the right to peaceful protest must be protected. As John Diefenbaker said, I am a Canadian...free to speak without fear, free to worship...in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for BeloeilChambly.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. George Floyd is not a victim of racism; he is another victim of racism. At a time of crisis when outrage is overwhelming the caution and fear of disease among thousands of people who, despite everything, take to the streets to express that outrage, we here in politics will have to be careful, once again, about the words we use. Indeed we are particularly inclined to give other people's words a meaning other than the one they would have liked to give them. Today, our dutyand I would say almost our only dutyis to express our solidarity, our sadness, our indignation and our anger, but above alland in saying this, I'm thinking of all my friends and acquaintances in the wonderful black community in Quebec and the UnitedStatesour friendship. We must try to be heard by all humans. Every time we talk about this, a small part of me surfaces, that of the non-practising but unrepentant anthropologist who wants to remind us that races do not exist. It is the frequency of manifestations of certain genetic traits favoured by geography and history, which in turn shape cultures. Racism expresses itself first and foremost through aggression against what is presumed to be the culture of others, difference. Each time difference instills fear, it is, of course, one time too many. We must learn to live equality in diversity, in itself an extraordinary thing. Governments in the U.S. have all been racist. Their racism has necessarily been expressed, at some point in their history, in their institutions. It has left its mark. It is the only thing that we have the right to call systemic racism or systemic discrimination. I am concerned when anyone suggests that we are all and collectively inclined to engage in systemic discrimination or when anyone claims to be a bulwark of virtue between us and the victims. I believe that the Canadian government is not racist, that the Quebec government is not racist, and that the governments of our municipalities are not racist either. I believe, however, that there may be traces of horrible things left in our institutions that colour our relationships with people of different origins or with people who were here long before us. So systemic racism probably exists. It should not denounce individuals, but it should encourage us to reread our rules to get rid of what might still be discriminatory in them. This day belongs to GeorgeFloyd. This day belongs to the black people of the UnitedStates. This day belongs to the black people of Quebec and Canada. We don't play politics at the funeral doors: we gather our thoughts, and let indignation and sadness be expressed. We leave the streets to those who need to speak with one voice, in peace. All that is peaceful is legitimate. Nothing that is violent is legitimate. The Prime Minister expressed the desire to implement concrete measures to fight racism. The first must be to show our solidarity and friendship. I'm proposing a very concrete measure, which is to give priority and expedited processing to the files of refugee claimantsespecially Haitian, especially black, but also of other originswho have expressed their desire to be part of the Quebec nation by putting themselves on the front line. He has the power and the duty to do so, and if he needs Parliament, let's do it tomorrow or right now. That way, words will become actions, and the next step will be all the more credible. In the meantime, our duty is to stand up for those who are afraid and against those who frighten them. Thank you, Mr.Chair.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable member for Burnaby South.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Many, many Canadians were shocked to see the violence surrounding the murder of GeorgeFloyd. GeorgeFloyd's murder is a grim reminder that anti-black racism still exists and that it hits hard. Anti-black racism isn't only in the UnitedStates; it's here in Canada, too. Systemic racism against blacks, indigenous people and many other visible minorities is alive and well: racial profiling, economic inequality, social inequality, discriminatory hiring, trivialization of violence, excess incarceration, and so on. Things aren't moving forward because one government after another prefers pretty words to concrete action. When the time comes to act, they don't have the courage, they don't have the will to act. People are feeling a lot of grief and frustration, but we can turn that into action and justice. We must not just call for peace. I believe that we have to call for justice. Justice is the only way to create a better world.  When people around the world saw the killing of George Floyd, it left all of us shaken to our core. It was chilling, the casual violence of anti-black racism, the callous taking of another human being's life. It hurt to the core. There was pain. There was sadness. There is anger, and rightly so. There is frustration. This isn't just an American problem. This is just as much a Canadian problem as well, and something that continues to exist across our country. Anti-black racism and anti-indigenous racism are real. People have suffered violence. Indigenous people and black people have suffered violence and have been killed at the hands of police here in Canada. I think about Regis Korchinski-Paquet in Toronto and the calls for justice for Regis. A black trans woman was killed in suspicious circumstances in an interaction with the police. I think about Stewart Kevin Andrews, a young indigenous man killed in an interaction with the police in Winnipeg. The anger and frustration are about this: How many more people need to die before there's action? How many more speeches will be made? How many more protests need to happen before something is done? How many more times will people plead to breathe? How many more times will they plead to live? What we're talking about is basic human dignity. How many more voices have to ask, demand, plead, beg for basic human dignity? People are angry. They're feeling like enough is enough. Why do they need to keep on asking? Why do black people, why do indigenous people need to keep on asking to be treated like humans? Why? You know, people are done with pretty speeches, particularly pretty speeches from people in power who could do something about it right now if they wanted to. I'm standing in a hall of power, the chamber of the Commons, with a Prime Minister who has the power not just to say pretty words but to actually do something about this. The Prime Minister of this country has the power to go beyond pretty words and pretty speeches and do something. I don't have all the answers. I don't think any one person does. We're going to have to come up with those solutions together, but there are certainly some things we do know. Martin Luther King said, True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice. That's what we need. We need justice.  Killer Mike extolled that people should plan, plot, strategize, organize and then mobilize. Cardi B put it this way: Another way for the people to take powerI don't want to make everything political but it is what it isis by voting. So what do we vote for? We vote for a government to take action. I call on the Prime Minister, in this hall of power: If the Prime Minister believes that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending racial profiling in our country? If the Prime Minister believes that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-policing of black bodies? If the Prime Minister believes, truly believes, that black lives matter, will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-incarceration of black people in this country? If the Prime Minister truly believes that black lives matter, will he commit to ensuring that there are race-based data to make better decisions? Will he commit to ensuring that there's access to education and to health resources? The Prime Minister has the power to do all these things right now. The Prime Minister simply needs to get it done. If the Prime Minister truly believes that indigenous lives matter, then similarly the Prime Minister must commit today to ending the racial profiling of indigenous people, the over-policing of indigenous people and the over-incarceration of indigenous people. If the Prime Minister truly believes that indigenous lives matter, the Prime Minister could stop taking indigenous kids to court; the Prime Minister could stop delaying the action on the calls for justice for the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls. If the Prime Minister believes that indigenous lives matter, he could ensure that there's clean drinking water and access to justice and to education and housing right now. People are angry because they are frustrated and done with pretty words. People are angry because they're done with pretty speeches from people in power who could do something about it right now. People don't want peace. They don't want an absence of tension. People want the presence of justice. People want justice. People deserve justice. People need justice, and justice is what people will get. Nothing less will do. Thank you.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable member for SaanichGulf Islands\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is indeed a difficult day. It's a difficult week. These have been difficult weeks. I stand here and want to begin by acknowledging that we are all on the traditional territory of the Algonquin peoples, and again to say meegwetch, on a day like this when we're focusing on something so painful that really is beyond partisanship and that should bind us together as people who say we cannot tolerate racism, not in this country. But we know it's here. As the Prime Minister just said, Racism never has a place in this country. But we know it's here and we know it's living with us. We are facing, in this pandemic, two dangerous, invisible viruses. One is COVID-19 and the other one we've tolerated far too long, which is race-based hatred, hate speech and anti-black racism. Yes, black lives matter. I want to do nothing but just chant it in this place until we all stand together and say, Black lives matter. What we are seeing in the murder of George Floyd is exactly as my colleague from the Bloc Qubcois said: George Floyd is not a victim of racism; he is another victim of racism. There is victim upon victim upon victim. These victims have names. We must not forget their names.  The first time a black man was killed when his last words were I can't breathe was in 2014, with Eric Garner. His mother did interviews this week. Imagine what she's going through, because George Floyd died on video also saying, I can't breathe, and the people who were stopping him from breathing, his killers, are the police. In the case of Eric Garner, the policemen were fired but never charged. In George Floyd's murder, at least one killer has been charged, but it doesn't do anything to ease the pain, nor, as my friend from the NDP said, does it quench the thirst for justice, because that's what people are crying out for. They're crying out for justice. The names just keep cascading. I had to look it up because I thought, when was it that the poor young man who was jogging was murdered by the father and son in the pickup truck? He was murdered by a retired policeman and his son in their pickup truck, in February. Breonna Taylor of Louisville was murdered in her own home by cops who thought she might have drugs there. They searched, and she didn't. What on earth allows this to keep happening over and over again?  I looked at a site called Just Security and I thought these words from reporter Mia Bloom, who happens to be Canadian, were pretty clear on what puts you at risk of death in the United States of America, but also in Canada: driving while black, jogging while black, reporting while black, bird watching while black, selling lemonade while black can get you killed. The killers far too often are wearing a uniform. I want to go back to the words reporting while black, because this is something else we've seen in the last four days that we've never seen before, which is the deliberate targeting of reporters by police. Over 100 reporters have been injured in the United States in the last four days. One woman lost her eye. These are serious injuries. Sometimes reporters get in the way of riots and whatnot, but this is different. This is another element altogether. It seems that, in this place, when we have speeches and pretty words to denounce racism, we do it in a kind of cycle. After Colten Boushie's murder, we talked about anti-indigenous racism. We talked about the threat to our indigenous brothers and sisters across this country who also face racism on a daily basis. We talked about the fact that they are disproportionately in our prisons. Just within the last day, the report came down on the killing of Dale Culver in Prince George at the hands of the Prince George RCMP. This indigenous young man was 35 years old, and he was pepper-sprayed until he couldn't breathe. There will be charges in this case. That's the recommendation that just came down. We go through sequential moments where we can say Islamophobia is not okay. Six Muslims at prayer in Quebec City were murdered. We can all stand up and say we denounce Islamophobia. Or we can denounce anti-trans violence against individual trans people who are murdered.  We denounce anti-Semitism when we see anti-Semitic graffiti scrawled on the door of an Ottawa rabbi's home. We denounce it, but can we get to the root of it? As the honourable leader of the Conservative Party mentioned, in recent days we're seeing anti-Asian racism on the increase. We're seeing all this happen and we want to be good allies. We want to be a good ally to the family of Regis Korchinski-Paquet. We want to be a good ally. I am a woman of privilege. I got it by mere random accident of birth. I was born to white parents. Privilege is being white. We have to study our privilege. We have to acknowledge our privilege and we have to know, as the Prime Minister said, we're not perfect, but it doesn't give us a free pass to ignore that we have to stand up and we have to speak out. I am sitting so close to my friend here, our minister, Ahmed HussenI say your name out loud, but your tweets brought me to tearsthat this fine man faces racism in his own riding, that his three beautiful black boys have people turn away or clutch their purse or they're a little worried when the kids are around. It sounds exactly like what the Prime Minister just called the microaggressions that many of us might not even see. We can look at our own conduct and our own behaviour. In looking at these things, there is something I want to say, when we look at all these things that are happening and we wonder, what we can do about it. When we see a bully, when we hear hate speech, we have to speak up. We have to speak out and we have to say that the President of the United States is fomenting hatred and violence and it's shameful and shocking that he would grab a Bible, then use tear gas to clear peaceful protestors on a Washington street so that Donald Trump could pose with a Bible in front of an Episcopal church. The Episcopal Bishop of Washington had this to say, because she is a good ally:     In no way do we support the President's incendiary response to a wounded, grieving nation. In faithfulness to our Saviour who lived a life of non-violence and sacrificial love, we align ourselves with those seeking justice for the death of George Floyd.   That's what we must do in this place. We must acknowledge and speak up for justice for the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, the report on which languishes a year later. We must stand up for justice and we must examine something very worrying. In 2006, the U.S. FBI warned that white supremacist groups were targeting police forces and joining them. If we're looking for real action, things we can do in this place, I call on us to have an inquiry and an examination to root out white supremacist groups in Canada and identify them for what they are, a terrorist threat in our midst. We must make sure they're not in our police forces, because if there is one thing scarier than a white supremacist with a gun, it's a white supremacist with a gun in uniform. Please, God, there are things we can do. Please, God, we love each other, take care of each other regardless of the colour of our skin, and pray for the United States of America. It's a country being ripped apart, and the ripping and the tearing is being done by people who should at this very time be consoling and leading and inspiring. Pray. Pray for Canada. Pray for each and every one of our beautiful black baby girls and boys, the indigenous baby girls and boys, the Asian kids. Wherever you look, reach out and be a good ally. Stand up and say, With my body I get between you and the cops. We have to be good allies. Right now, they're just pretty words. Thank you for listening.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now proceed to presenting petitions for a period not exceeding 15minutes. I'd like to remind honourable members that any petition presented during the meeting of this special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions.  For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The honourable member for NanaimoLadysmith, Mr. Manly.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Mr. Chair, it's difficult to follow that set of speeches. I have a petition on a serious issue dealing with plastic pollution. It creates a major impact on aquatic life but also on human health. It's estimated that 74,000 to 121,000 microplastic particles are ingested per person every year. A recent study shows that each washing cycle 120,000 to 730,000 microfibres are shed from clothes and go directly into waste water. Many of these microfibres are synthetic and therefore are microplastics. Washing machine discharge filters are currently available on the market and greatly reduce the amount of microfibres being released into waste water and thus the environment. This petition is calling on the government to legislate the requirement for all new washing machines to have discharge filters as of 2021 and to provide incentives to all residents of Canada to install discharge filters on current washing machines.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Presenting petitions, the hon. member for Peace RiverWestlock.\nMr. Arnold Viersen (Peace RiverWestlock, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise to table a petition signed by Canadians who are concerned about Bill C-7. Given what we've seen in assisted living homes in this country and the devastation particularly in Ontario and Quebec, the petitioners are asking for the government to look into assisted living, not assisted dying.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Presenting petitions, the hon. member for SaanichGulf Islands.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise to present a petition today from a number of constituents calling for the government to act to uphold the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action. There is a call to respect the Wet'suwet'en territory and to dismantle RCMP exclusion zones. This petition came some time ago. Some of these issues have been dealt with. I am particularly pleased to note that the nation-to-nation talks called for by petitioners between the Wet'suwet'en and the federal and provincial governments have taken place. I will take this moment if I may to thank the honourable ministers involved in that effort. Thank you.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): That will conclude the presenting of petitions. I would ask members who have presented petitions here in person in the House if they would be so kind as to bring their petitions to the table. That would be most appreciated. We'll now go to statements by members for a period not exceeding 15 minutes. I would remind members to do their best to keep their member statement to a maximum of one minute. We'll start statements by members with Mr. Weiler, the member for West VancouverSunshine CoastSea to Sky Country.\n",
      "Mr. Patrick Weiler (West VancouverSunshine CoastSea to Sky Country, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I continue to be amazed by how the communities throughout my riding have stepped up to support our most vulnerable at our time of crisis. In many ways it has brought our communities closer together even while we stay physically distant. Nowhere is this more true than on the Sunshine Coast. Dedicated individuals immediately and organically mobilized the Sunshine Coast community task force to coordinate local government, non-profit and business efforts to provide critical services to the community. Social enterprises banded together to form the Sunshine Coast food service response, which provides ready-made meals and donates to food banks. Persephone Brewing and others deliver groceries to at-risk customers both on the coast and on isolated islands. The 101 Brewhouse + Distillery and Bruinwood Distillery quickly retooled their business to supply much-needed hand sanitizer to local hospitals and other front-line workers. COVID-19, like all crises, has highlighted true leadership in our society, and I am grateful for what they and all of our health care workers do every day to get us through this.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for Medicine HatCardstonWarner, Mr. Motz.\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz (Medicine HatCardstonWarner, CPC): Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister and his cabinet have shown they're unwilling to put the protection and safety of Canadians ahead of political interests. They themselves are the greatest source of disinformation in this country. The Prime Minister told Canadians that they can buy a gun without a licence. Either purposely or because of ignorance, he left out the fact that doing so is a criminal offence with a five-year prison sentence. The Minister of Public Safety said he wouldn't target hunters, but then he went ahead and banned numerous bolt-action hunting rifles and made owning a shotgun a criminal offence. They have weakened the ability to protect our borders. They have ignored our rampant drug crisis, and they have weakened sentences for serious crimes, all while saying they take these issues very seriously. Today they tell us they are banning a new Liberal-invented type of firearm, a military-style assault rifle. It's time to be honest with Canadians. The Liberals would rather make people afraid of hunters, farmers and sport shooters than deal with the real issues like drugs, gangs, illegal smuggling and crime.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to Ms. Sgro, the hon. member for Humber RiverBlack Creek.\n",
      "Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber RiverBlack Creek, Lib.): Mr. Chair, it is in our most difficult moments when we truly see stunning displays of human spirit and generosity. On that note, today I wish to recognize the work of the Humber River Hospital in my riding of Humber RiverBlack Creek and to congratulate them on the success of their Humber front-line support fund and PPE drive. Not only have they been on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic keeping our residents safe and healthy, but thanks to the generosity of those both in my riding and beyond, the Humber River Hospital has raised over $1 million and received over 400,000 pieces of personal protective equipment. This will be invaluable to the hospital as they continue to work with us and fight the good fight to keep us all healthy. I thank all those brave workers at the hospital, and I thank those generous individuals who have donated to this important cause.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): I now invite the hon. member for AbitibiTmiscamingue, Mr.Lemire, to take the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Sbastien Lemire (AbitibiTmiscamingue, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I am honoured to speak to you about a proud warrior. StephanLavoie had made the choice to say thank you to life. For several years, he had been using his fight against cancer, which he led with the help of natural products only, to ensure cancer services and care were improved, particularly in regions far from major centres. Mayor of Preissac, in the RCM of Abitibi, StephanLavoie passed away yesterday. I would like to extend my condolences to his wife, Anabelle, to his entire family and especially to his daughter, Astrid, who is only 20months old. Through his humanism, StephanLavoie was a warrior, a visionary and a great source of inspiration for all of us. To me, he was above all the perfect model of a committed and loving father. My thoughts also go out to the citizens of Preissac, to whom he leaves a dynamic legacy, and to the leaders of the Abitibi community. In our first conversation, he said to me, and I hope the House will echo it forever, that all of our decisions must be made with our children in mind. Stephan, rest in peace, dear friend.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for MontRoyal, Mr.Housefather, has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Anthony Housefather (Mount Royal, Lib.): It is with great sadness that I rise today to pay tribute to Tristan Roy, after his tragic passing exactly two weeks ago. Born in Saint-Fabien-sur-Mer, Tristan became a pillar of the MontRoyal community in1997 when he bought the old MontRoyal newspaper. When the city's oldest newspaper, the TMR Weekly Post ceased operations, Tristan registered the name and renamed his newspaper the TMR Poste de Mont-Royal. He created a truly bilingual newspaper, ensuring that TMR residents could receive their news in both French and English. His editorials and views on local issues carried enormous weight. I join Mayor Philippe Roy and the members of the town council in offering our sincere condolences to Tristan's wife, Anne-Marie, his daughter, Aril, and his son, Lancelot. We all considered Tristan to be a friend, an example of what a good journalist and editor should be and could be. He will be sorely missed.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for Beauce, Mr.Lehoux, has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux (Beauce, CPC): Mr.Chair, if you didn't already know, people from Beauce are proud. There is Marie-PhilipPoulin of Beauceville, who was named the best female hockey player in the world earlier this year, or AntonyAuclair of Notre-Dame-des-Pins. AntonyAuclair said, in a CBC article, that Beauce had prepared him for his arrival in the NFL. There is also GuillaumeCouture, from Sainte-Marie, who made his mother very proud, and everyone from Beauce indirectly, on the program Les Chefs again last night. It is this same pride that I see throughout the region, with companies like Revtech Systmes, in Saint-Joseph-de-Beauce, or PuriHaze, in Sainte-Marie, which have invented robots to decontaminate spaces. There are also local purchasing initiatives such as the #onlaici campaign by the Nouvelle-Beauce chamber of commerce and industry or Achetons beauceron, by the Saint-Georges chamber of commerce. Today I have but two words for my constituents: thank you. I thank them for continuing to encourage local businesses that greatly need it. I thank them for being loyal to their habits and to rolling up their sleeves to help their neighbours. I thank them for being proud and being residents of Beauce.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll go now to the member for Don Valley East, Ms. Ratansi.\n",
      "Ms. Yasmin Ratansi (Don Valley East, Lib.): Mr. Chair, our government has shown leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic by ensuring that Canadians remain safe and get the financial assistance they need. Eight million Canadians are receiving the Canada emergency response benefit. The Canada emergency business account and the Canada emergency wage subsidy ensure that the economy is ready to start up post-pandemic. Seniors received top-ups to the OAS and GIS, and families, the child care benefit. All of these measures are helping thousands of seniors and low-income families in my riding of Don Valley East. The feedback from my regular virtual town halls has also helped to fine-tune many of the programs. Many Canadians have shown generosity during this crisis. I want to particularly thank Saravanaa Bhavan and Happy Pops for donating food and frozen treats to our superhero front-line workers at local hospitals.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the honourable member for VaughanWoodbridge, Mr. Sorbara.\n",
      "Mr. Francesco Sorbara (VaughanWoodbridge, Lib.): Mr. Chair, even though this year's festivities for Italian Heritage Month will be done differently, the same spirit and vitality exists throughout virtual events happening across the country. Virtual events have seen Italian Canadians, through their generosity, raise over $1 million to help Italy during COVID-19. Today, June 2, Italian citizens celebrate the founding of the modern day Italian Republic. The Italian Canadian story remains one of passion, an adopted homeland filled with hard work, sacrifice and optimism. Generations of Italian Canadians have contributed much to shaping the inclusive and generous Canada that we know today. Our diversity is our strength, and I'm proud to be Italian Canadian. Let's all join together in proudly celebrating Italian Heritage Month. Thank you, Mr. Chair.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the honourable member for Calgary Skyview, Ms. Sahota.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC): Mr. Chair, as communities begin to ease restrictions, I remain mystified that, according to this government, Parliament is not an essential service. If it were up to the Prime Minister, he would not have to answer to anyone. That is not how democracy works. We in the opposition have been long calling for the return of Parliament, which would be possible while still maintaining public health guidelines. Canadians deserve to be represented in the House of Commons by the elected member of Parliament. While the work we do in our constituencies is incredibly important, it is equally important to bring those voices back to Ottawa to debate, to question and to hold the government to account. This is fundamental to the role of an elected representative. The role of the opposition is crucial now more than ever when billions of dollars are being spent with little oversight. Our role as members of Parliament is to uphold our democracy and to be present. This is the greatest pandemic in our lifetime. Now is not the time to hide behind a podium. If this government were doing the best job for Canadians, they would not need to hide. Thank you.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the honourable member for Brampton East, Mr. Sidhu.\n",
      "Mr. Maninder Sidhu (Brampton East, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I would like to take a moment to highlight displays of generosity in my riding of Brampton East. This is just a small sample of the many individuals and organizations that have stepped up across Canada.  Khalsa Aid has been providing food supplies with the help of Sperenza Banquet Hall, which has graciously provided the space to run a province-wide campaign out of Brampton East. Care4Cause has sent hundreds of prepared meals on a weekly basis to Good Shepherd Ministries to lessen their load. Navraj Brar at Pharmasave has offered free care packages to health care workers and hand sanitizer to the Peel Regional Police. Aujla Salon and Spa has partnered with GlobalMedic to help deliver over 10,000 pounds of food to local food banks. I would also like to point out the heroic efforts of our truck drivers, taxi drivers, grocery store clerks, nurses, doctors, paramedics and countless other front-line heroes. We see you and we are immensely grateful for the bravery you display each and every day. Thank you to everyone in Brampton East who has stepped up for their neighbour in their time of need. You are setting a great example of the kind of progress we can make as Canadians when we come together and support each other. I am truly honoured to represent you in Ottawa.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the honourable member for WellingtonHalton Hills, Mr. Chong.\n",
      "Hon. Michael Chong (WellingtonHalton Hills, CPC): Mr. Chair, the House of Commons is shut down. Let's be clear. This is not the House of Commons. It's a committee where only statements, petitions and questions are allowed. There is no power to introduce motions, to test confidence or to vote. The government came to office promising greater democracy but they broke their promise on electoral reform. They tried to give the PMO the control over this House in motion 6, and yesterday's report confirms that they rigged the leaders debate in their favour in the last election. Now they've shuttered Parliament. Parliament sat through two world wars, the October crisis and previous pandemics and it survived the test, but not now. The people's representatives need to sit. People need their representation. Parliament and this House of Commons with its full powers needs to reopen and it needs to reopen now.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable member for ReginaQu'Appelle.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, these past few months have been tremendously difficult for so many Canadians: sickness, losing loved ones, job losses, economic hardships, loneliness and isolation. The pandemic has taken its toll on so many. It is in these times of suffering and adversity that we have seen Canadians coming together to support each other and that brings us hope. Mosques, churches, synagogues and gurdwaras have all answered the call to help their communities. Whether it's providing meals to the hungry, clothing for the cold, or technology for those who need it most, these actions are true reflections of the kindness and generosity that Canadians are known for. While there are too many groups to mention them all, I want to thank Vikas Sharma and Care4Cause out of Brampton for the meals that they have been providing their community in that area and across the GTA. This group and thousands of others like it across the country are working tirelessly to ease the suffering of others and help those in need. Thank you, and God bless all the volunteers.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Now we will go to the honourable member for Winnipeg Centre. Ms. Gazan, go ahead.\n",
      "Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Chair, I rise today in honour of National Indigenous History Month to speak truth about a history of racism in Canada that was built on the wrongful dispossession of lands from indigenous people and controlled through the use of police-state violence that has resulted in a loss of life, freedom, respect and dignity. Even today we continue to observe this reality in my very own city where we witnessed the killing of three indigenous youth by police in a span of 10 days this past April. This is not a coincidence. We have statistics. We have research, and we have stories of loved ones lost. We know it, and we see it in our lives every day. We need to address police violence throughout this country. Canadians are rising from coast to coast demanding this of all of us and sending a clear message that we must address systemic racism in all of its forms to ensure justice for all. There will never be reconciliation in the absence of justice.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. member for BeauportLimoilou, Mrs.Vignola, has the floor.\n",
      "Mrs. Julie Vignola (BeauportLimoilou, BQ): Mr.Chair, Canada Post is literally not delivering the goods. But the postal service is an essential service, and even more so today because everything is done online, even local shopping. The current crisis partly explains the congestion, but it is mainly due to the fact that Canada Post forgot to join the 21stcentury. It has been left behind where others have made millions of dollars. Its platform isn't effective. It's now delivering more parcels, but it's losing money. There's a statement to make here, right now. In the immediate term, Canada Post must deal with the delays, and to do so, it needs the help of the Government of Canada. Canada Post needs to hire staff. If a collective agreement had finally been signed, it would make it easier to hire staff. We have been waiting for two and a half years. A premium for essential workers might also be appropriate. As I said, the postal service is an essential service, and it's time to give it the importance this status imposes.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now go to the honourable member for Calgary Centre. Mr. McLean, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, the prospects in Canada's oil fields are bleak in the near term. Capital spending forecasts and drilling activities sank to a 49-year low. This is a result of the temporary collapse in demand for our most valuable commodity and the one that contributes the most to our GDP, our balance of trade, and whose taxes support the social programs Canadians enjoy, $108 billion in GDP, $8 billion per year in government revenues, $77 billion in trade surplus. It is a rude blow to hard-working professionals who soldier past negligent government policies that have left a stain on another generation of western Canadians. We're talking about an industry here that directly employs over 200,000, including 11,000 indigenous Canadians. We're talking about an industry that contributes 75% of Canada's investment in clean technology. However, Canada's resource industry will still be resilient. Bad policy cannot permanently erase the work, the hope and the pride of forward thinkers and doers, and their efforts to continue building a great country. Thank you.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now go to the honourable member for Winnipeg South. Mr. Duguid, go ahead.\n",
      "Mr. Terry Duguid (Winnipeg South, Lib.): Mr. Chair, today I want to give a special thank you to the health care workers at Victoria General Hospital, who are serving patients in our community here in Winnipeg South. Every day, doctors, nurses and staff work selflessly to take care of those in our community who need it most. Whether it's by keeping seniors connected with their families by using iPads or making sure that patients go home with a special care package, staff at the Vic are doing extraordinary work to make this difficult time just a little bit easier. I would also like to give a big shout-out to our wonderful small businesses in Winnipeg South that continue to show their appreciation by preparing meals for the hard-working staff at the Vic. Folks in our community continue to show what it means to be exemplary Canadians, and it is a great honour to represent them.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): This concludes the period for statements by members. We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers.  The honourable Leader of the Opposition.\nHon. Andrew Scheer: Mr.Chair, the staff of long-term care facilities for seniors are showing exceptional courage and dedication. FranoisLegault asked that the military personnel currently helping in facilities in Quebec stay until the fall. The Prime Minister said no. I'd like to hear the Prime Minister tell us why they can't stay.\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, like all Canadians, I am deeply grateful for the extraordinary work that the Canadian Armed Forces are doing in long-term care facilities in Quebec and Ontario. Thanks to their reports, we've seen that the situation was even worse than we feared. The work our military is doing is extraordinary. We will continue to support them, but we know that having military personnel in our long-term care facilities isn't a long-term solution. Therefore, we are going to work with Quebec to find better long-term solutions.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, now that Bell Canada has decided to partner with Ericsson to deliver its 5G network, the Liberals will undoubtedly ban Huawei, but the Liberal inaction on Huawei is just another example of this government's weak leadership. Instead of deciding for himself a year ago, the Prime Minister is forcing the business community to make the decision for him. Why couldn't the Prime Minister have shown some backbone and banned Huawei a year ago?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, our approach every step of the way has been to listen to experts, to work with allies and to listen to the counsel of our security and intelligence community, which has been looking into this issue. We know we need to make sure that Canadian businesses, Canadians and Canadian infrastructure are protected at the same time as we remain competitive in the world. That has guided our approach on this from the beginning.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: The fact of the matter, Mr Chair, is that it hasn't. The former public safety minister, Ralph Goodale, promised in this House over a year ago that an answer on Huawei would be coming. Here we are, it's June 2, 2020, and they still haven't made a decision. On another topic, Mr. Chair, the President of the Treasury Board wrote to cabinet last week and said that transparency is important even in a time of crisis. I guess the Minister of Infrastructure didn't get that letter. She's refusing to tell us how much of a bonus she gave to the departing head of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. At a time when Canadians are struggling, it is disgusting that the Liberals are paying out bonuses to someone who accomplished nothing. Will the Prime Minister have a little respect for taxpayers and tell us exactly how much of a bonus the CEO of the Canada Infrastructure Bank received?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the mandate of the Canada Infrastructure Bank is to find innovative ways to finance some of Canada's biggest infrastructure projects by leveraging private capital. The remuneration range of the former CEO has been in the public domain for more than two years. The opposition is looking backward. We're moving forward. The bank is moving into its next phase of development, now under the leadership of the new board chair, Michael Sabia, and will play an important role in the recovery when the time comes.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, only to a Liberal would an innovative approach to building infrastructure mean building absolutely nothing. The CEO of an infrastructure bank who accomplished zero completed infrastructure projects should not be receiving a bonus. I didn't ask a question about the remuneration. I didn't ask a question about the salary. This individual received a bonus. How much was that bonus?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, as I said, the remuneration range of this former CEO has been in the public domain for more than two years. In regard to further payments, we do not comment on personal HR and financial information of individuals in government.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, again, I did not ask about the remuneration. I asked about the bonus. The Canada Infrastructure Bank was a Liberal scheme designed to protect the investments of private investors and put all the risk onto taxpayers. Even with that model, do you know how many projects they completed? Zero. Yet, the individual in charge of that received a bonus from the Prime Minister. Apparently, to the Liberals, he was doing a good job. They might try to claim that it's arm's length and that they can't divulge this information, but we know that Minister Champagne personally intervened in the decision regarding the bonus of the Canada Infrastructure Bank's CEO. It's a simple question. How much did that individual receive?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, five years ago, when we first got elected, we had to turn around the underinvestment that Stephen Harper's Conservatives had made in infrastructure across the country. Even during the depths of the 2008 recession, the investments they made were for things like doorknobs and signs. They went into debt and didn't have anything to show for it. We're going to continue to move forward on historic investments in infrastructure to build up this country. We're using innovative means like the infrastructure bank to do that.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The honourable member for BeloeilChambly has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Mr.Chair, well before 1867, in what became Quebec, in New Brunswick, in Acadia, in Ontario and in the west, lay the seeds of what later became the provinces of Canada and Quebec. It can therefore be inferred that Canada is a creature of the provinces and that the provinces are not creatures of Canada. Could the Prime Minister read his answer to this question: who pays for the health transfers to the provinces?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we have a country with a number of levels of government working together to serve Canadians. In times of crisis, but also in good times, Canadians expect that their governments will work together to provide the services and the care that they need. That is exactly what we are doing.\nMr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Let me remind the Prime Minister that all the provinces and Quebec are asking for increased and recurring health transfers that are unconditional and sustainable. Who pays for the all-too-meagre benefits made available to the seniors of Quebec and Canada?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we have worked with Quebec and the other provinces to make sure that we invest in health transfers. We have made transfers of $500million, that's halfabillion dollars, because of the recent COVID-19 crisis. We will continue to work with the provinces in the long term. But, for the moment, we are working on the emergency situation in which we find ourselves.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Mr.Chair, the Conservatives have backtracked on the wage subsidy, and I congratulate them for that. Who pays for the part of the wage subsidy program that will be going into the coffers of the Liberal Party of Canada?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, since this crisis began, we have made investments to protect jobs and workers, including accountants, human resources managers and receptionists. We are in the process of ensuring that people with all kinds of jobs in all kinds of organizations will be able to keep those jobs.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Mr.Chair, it is comforting to know that they are a little richer now, but some companies are under threat because the Liberal Party is a little richer. Who is going to pay for the fact that one company has been chosen by a closed call for tender? One company has been awarded a private contract, probably a foreign multinational, probably for 2021, while we are perfectly capable of doing the work in Quebec and in Canada. Who is going to pay for this gift to a private company that will be doing the Government of Canada's work?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we are in a crisis. We are in the process of helping workers and helping Canadians by means of measures like the Canada emergency response benefit, the Canada emergency wage subsidy and with the assistance to companies, We will continue to do what we must do to help workers all across the country so that we can come out of this crisis together.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Fundamentally, my impression was that, in a crisis, civil society turns to the state to find and implement solutions. I see that, in this case, and in all its operations, the Government of Canada takes money, about 20% of which comes from Quebec, and gives it to a private company, possibly a foreign company, so that it can tell us what will happen, although the first wave will have come and gone for a year already. Is the Prime Minister telling us that he is incapable of doing his job?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, Canadians expect their government to look after their health and the health of the economy. That is exactly what we are doing. We are here for workers, we are here for families, we are here for our seniors and for our students. We will continue to be here throughout this pandemic and as the economy reopens. That is what Canadians expect of us and we will meet their expectations.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Blanchet, you have about 40seconds left.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Mr.Chair, as I see it, the Prime Minister is contracting out his job with taxpayers' money, a part of which is going into his party's bank account for the next election. Is that the only explanation of his role he has for the residents of Quebec, a role that is currently protected by a crisis?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, all across the country, including in Quebec, people are worried about their jobs because of the crisis that the pandemic is causing. We are providing a wage subsidy to organizations and to companies to ensure that people will receive their paycheques in order to support their families and pay their rent. That is what people expected from this government as a priority.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We will now go to the honourable member for Burnaby South, Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, people are fed up with pretty words from people in power. The Prime Minister has the power to do something about the anti-black racism that Canada is faced with. Will the Prime Minister end racial profiling in Canada against black people once and for all?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, this government was the first government to recognize anti-black racism, systemic discrimination and unconscious bias and to take concrete actions against them in the context of the UN International Decade for People of African Descent but also in the context of a country that stands up for human rights and protects everyone. We have made significant steps forward, but there is so much to do, and I look forward to working with all members in this House to do just that.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: I did not hear an answer. Will the Prime Minister end the racial profiling of black people in Canada?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, our justice system unfairly targets in many situations racialized Canadians, including indigenous Canadians and black Canadians. We know we need to improve our justice system and rates of incarceration and we will work on it.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Will the Prime Minister end the over-policing and over-incarceration of black and indigenous people?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, systemic discrimination means that people of colour are at greater risk of being incarcerated than others when facing negative outcomes in the justice system. We know we need to work on all the determinants of that. We will work as a country together.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Will the Prime Minister make sure Canada is collecting disaggregated data on the impacts of COVID-19 on racialized people, particularly indigenous and black people?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, not just on COVID-19 but on all ranges of data, we've made investments over the past years to Statistics Canada so that they are better able to collect data in a disaggregated fashion. We need to know what is happening within vulnerable communities. Disaggregated data will help, and we're working with provinces on the COVID-19 data.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: We know people are frustrated with anti-black racism. People are also incredibly frustrated with anti-indigenous racism. Will the Prime Minister commit to ending the over-incarceration, over-policing and racial profiling of indigenous people?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, I referred to that in an earlier answer. Yes, we need to work to ensure that the rates of incarceration for indigenous people and for racialized Canadians are reduced. There are many measures we're working on to move forward to make our justice system fairer, to reduce systemic discrimination and eventually to eliminate it.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Here are two specific things we can do. I asked the Prime Minister if he will commit to stop taking indigenous kids to court, and if he will stop delaying the response to the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls calls for justice.\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, tomorrow is the anniversary of the end of the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls inquiry. We have been working over the past year with partners on the ground to formulate the measures and the response that needs to move forward. Many of those partners over the past months have been engaged in keeping their communities safe and working hard on that, and that has delayed the putting out of the report.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Will the Prime Minister stop taking indigenous kids to court when it comes to indigenous child welfare?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we agree that we need to compensate kids and indigenous peoples who have suffered harm at the hands of our child and family services over the past decades and we will do that.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Will the Prime Minister commit to not just pretty words but real action ensuring that all indigenous communities have access to clean drinking water?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the NDP needs to know that we have eliminated over 80 long-term boil water advisories through our work over the past years, and we are on track to eliminating all of them on time by next spring. This is something we committed to Canadians and we are doing.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister needs to speak to indigenous communities who talk of a completely different reality. They do not have access to clean drinking water, and communities are going off the list only to return back on to the list of boil water advisories. Will the Prime Minister commit to ensuring all indigenous communities have clean drinking water?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, that was a commitment we made to Canadians and a commitment we are keeping. The member opposite continues to talk as if there has been no progress made. There has been significant progress made. We are on track to eliminating those boil water advisories. It would be great if the members opposite talked about some good news instead of just highlighting the very real problems that are there. There is good news and there is challenging news. We are working on those together.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): We'll now go to the honourable member for Carleton, Mr. Poilievre.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre (Carleton, CPC): Mr. Chair, what share of Canada's national debt is owed to foreign lenders?\nHon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance): Mr. Chair, we continue to manage our fiscal situation in a responsible manner, and we'll continue to do that.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: How much does the Government of Canada owe to the People's Republic of China?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we would be happy to provide information. If the member would like to send my office questions directly, I'd be happy to provide this information.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: It turns out I did a week ago. They still haven't provided answers to the questions, in particular the question regarding who owns Canada's foreign-held debt. We know that roughly a third of our debt is owned by foreigners. How much of that debt is owned by lenders from the People's Republic of China?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, as I said, we'd be happy to reply to these questions directly. We'll do so. We'll get to it in order, as we work through this crisis, making sure we focus on Canadians first.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: How much is owned by lenders from Saudi Arabia?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Again, Mr. Chair, we'd be happy to provide information in this regard should the member wish to send a request directly to my office.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: Which I have. Mr. Chair, moving along to the impacts of the debt on our people, how much would a 1% increase in the effective interest rate on Canada's national debt cost Canadian taxpayers?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we continue to manage our treasury function responsibly. I'd be happy to get financial calculations to the member if he'd like to send those directly to my office.\nHon. Pierre Poilievre: All right, Mr. Chair, we'll try a different question, then, as we're not getting any answers. We have lower interest rates than ever before. Normally, it means you lock in those rates for the long run. Anybody who has a mortgage knows you lock in for the long run when rates are low. What percentage of Canada's national debt is locked in for more than five years?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, I'd be happy to get this information to the member, but I would acknowledge that as we manage the treasury function for the Government of Canada, we look at the short term, the medium term and the long term. We think we have come up with a responsible approach to managing the ongoing debt that we have as a country.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Mr. Chair, it turns out, according to Department of Finance officials, that less than 3% of Canada's recently added debt since March is for terms of more than five years. Why has this minister made Canada so susceptible to future interest rate hikes by failing to lock in the $371.5 billion of new debt he's added in the last two and a half months?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we continue to manage the treasury function of the Government of Canada in a responsible way, making sure we consider what debt should be issued in a short term, a medium term and a long term, which we've been doing as the Government of Canada during our entire term and as previous governments have done as well.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Canadians would be wise not to hire this minister as their mortgage broker if they're looking to get the best rate. Let's move on to the Canadian household. The average household was $200 away from insolvency before this crisis began. How many Canadians would experience bankruptcy in the next 12 months if interest rates were to rise by an effective one percentage point?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, again, we'd be happy to get calculations to the member. I would make the observation that what we've been working to do during the course of this pandemic is to support Canadians and support Canadian families by providing them income during a time when they don't have access to income because they're actually at home. We think that has supported them in a very, very positive way that allows us to ensure that we will have a continuing economy when we get through this crisis.\nThe Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Poilievre. Go ahead.\n",
      "Hon. Pierre Poilievre: Unfortunately, we will have a $1-trillion debt when this fiscal year comes to an end. How much will the finance minister try to raise taxes if interest rates on that debt rise by, say, 1%?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, as I've said to the House previously, we do not intend to raise taxes. What the member opposite is suggesting is that we shouldn't be investing to support Canadians. I think the approach we've taken, with the emergency response benefit and the wage subsidy, has been particularly critical for enabling Canadians to get through a very challenging time.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The floor goes to the honourable member for Beauce, Mr.Lehoux.\nMr. Richard Lehoux: Mr.Chair, my question goes to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. Day after day, I speak with those involved in the world of agriculture and with witnesses appearing before the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. The consensus is very clear: the business risk management programs are not working. When will the Minister become involved and make major changes to those programs?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Mr.Chair, we have made commitments to producers all across the country. Some programs are already provided, including the risk management programs. I am working regularly with my colleagues in the provinces in order to improve them. We have also increased our contribution to various other programs, specifically in the meat sector, for pork or beef producers, and food processors.\nMr. Richard Lehoux: Mr.Chair, I have been hearing the same answers for several weeks now. Could the Minister simply give us a date?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: I repeat that we are working regularly with producers and their representatives. In addition, I am working together with my provincial colleagues. We are going to determine where the gaps are and we will identify the sectors that most need our assistance. Then, we will determine the best way to provide them with the assistance they need.\nMr. Richard Lehoux: Mr.Chair, the government promised to set its share of the business risk management programs at 60%, even if a province or territory does not participate. Have the provinces received the money, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Here is how it works. Through the AgriRecovery program, we have provided $50million for pork producers and $50million for beef producers. The program is available everywhere, but the provinces are responsible for implementing it.\nMr. Richard Lehoux: Mr.Chair, when will that transfer be made? Can the minister simply give us a date? That is all we are asking.\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I would really like to be able to give a date, but the answer depends on each of the provinces. The provinces have to implement the program.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: However, Mr.Chair, the minister has told us that she is ready to transfer the funds, whether or not the provinces add any to the program. To date, we still have no answer in that regard. How does the Minister of Agriculture intend to make major changes to the various risk management programs by July, when the government has itself pushed back the federal-provincial-territorial meeting of Ministers of Agriculture to October? We have been meeting by Zoom for some time now. Why was that not able to be an option?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Mr.Chair, I meet with my provincial colleagues every week, either by conference call or by Zoom. I can assure my colleague about our ongoing collaboration with the provinces. As for the AgriRecovery program, once again, the provinces have to implement it and it is their choice to contribute their share of 40% or not, in whole or in part. However, our federal commitment on the 60% share is firm.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Lehoux: Mr.Chair, if I understand correctly, there will be no changes to the various programs before November. The sectors of agriculture under supply management, like eggs and poultry producers in my constituency, who have been promised compensation for a long time, want to know when the money will be transferred to the producers who are working tirelessly to feed our country.\nHon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: I know that poultry, egg and milk producers work extremely hard. Our commitment to them in terms of compensation in response to the three free-trade agreements is still firm. At the moment, we are concentrating on emergency programs. We will then proceed with that compensation.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mr. Bruce Stanton): Mr.Lehoux, you have about 30seconds left.\nMr. Richard Lehoux: Thank you, Mr.Chair. As I see it, I still have not had an answer. The country is moving towards more automation. I am thinking, for example, about the advances that many SMEs and farmers in my constituency could implement in their companies. Unfortunately, in the regions, the Internet is far from adequate. When will I be able to tell my constituents that reliable Internet service will be available in their homes?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: I assure you that we recognize the importance of the Internet in rural regions. I myself represent a rural constituency and it is a challenge every day. We are working with our colleagues, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry and the Minister of Rural Economic Development to speed up the implementation of programs along those lines.\nThe Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): We'll now proceed to Mr. Motz.\nMr. Glen Motz: Mr. Chair, for the Minister of Public Safety, Minister Blair, how many times has the list of banned firearms changed since May 1?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): My understanding is that an order in council was made on May 1, and we have not made any changes to that order in council.\nMr. Glen Motz: That's untrue. How many more firearms have been added to the original prohibited list since that date?\nHon. Bill Blair: I suspect the member may be referring to the work that the RCMP has been doing through the Canadian firearms program in order to apply the order in council that was passed.\n",
      "The Chair: Before we go to Mr. Motz, I want to ask all honourable members to ensure that they are on mute. We are getting some voices in the background. Mr. Motz, please continue.\nMr. Glen Motz: How many .22 calibre rifles, firearms, are on that banned list?\nHon. Bill Blair: To be very clear, Mr. Chair, the banned list includes a number of assault-style rifles, including the AR-15. The member may be referring to a weapon that the RCMP has identified as using an AR-15 frame, which of course\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz: Again, that is a wrong answer, Mr. Chair. How many shotguns are now on that banned list?\nHon. Bill Blair: That is a bit of confusion put out by the gun lobby to frighten hunters. In fact, we did not prohibit any shotguns.\nMr. Glen Motz: Again, that is another untruth, Mr. Chair. Are there any airsoft guns on the prohibited list?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: That's another bit of mistruth and deception put out by the gun lobby. In fact, there was a weapon called the Blackwater AR-15, which was a real gun that was prohibited, but the toy gun, the airsoft one, was not.\nMr. Glen Motz: That's untrue. I know some of those exact firearms that are on that list. Why is the RCMP continuing to add firearms to the prohibited list after the list was published?\nHon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, it is a very important that the RCMP, as the agency responsible for administering the Canadian firearms program, continues to do its diligence to keep Canadians safe.\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz: Why has there been no notice given to firearms owners, retailers or the police of the many changes to the banned firearms list?\nHon. Bill Blair: Again, Mr. Chair, it is very important that the Canadian firearms program and the RCMP continue to do the important work of ensuring that Canadians are kept safe.\nMr. Glen Motz: How many firearms have been transferred between licensed gun owners and/or retailers since May 1?\nHon. Bill Blair: Again, I do not have that information and, as the member probably knows, records are not kept by the government or by law enforcement about the transfer of firearms that are not restricted.\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz: How many firearms have been retroactively changed to prohibited since May 1? Of the firearms that have been transferred, how many now are retroactively prohibited since May 1?\nHon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, to be very clear, on May 1, by order in council, we prohibited 1,500 somewhat different types of firearms, all based upon a military design. Those are the weapons that are prohibited.\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz: Since that time you have added almost 700 more, and none of those meet that category you are trying to establish. If a firearm that was not on the original prohibited list was transferred since May 1 and now that firearm appears on that prohibited list, are those transfers subject to a criminal prosecution?\nHon. Bill Blair: Again, the member is asking me a question that is solely the responsibility of the law enforcement agency of jurisdiction, and that is their decision, not ours.\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz: The minister has said that the issuance of firearm licences and transfers was stopped recently due to a printer failure. We now know that to be completely false. There was no such failure, but an ordered shutdown. Who ordered the RCMP to withhold these services from law-abiding Canadians?\nHon. Bill Blair: I have absolutely no knowledge of the allegation the member has just made, Mr. Chair, and so I cannot really confirm or deny that it actually ever happened.\nMr. Glen Motz: Maybe the minister needs to check with his officials and find out who actually did the ordering. What does the minister believe to be the estimated cost of the firearms confiscation plan?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, there was no firearms confiscation plan. We will, however, be bringing legislation forward at the very first opportunity to facilitate a buyback program that will treat Canadians who purchased these firearms fairly.\n",
      "Mr. Glen Motz: You can't buy back something that you never owned in the first place, Mr. Chair. These costs must include administration, price per firearm, as well as the industry costs. We know that industry costs are over $1 billion. If this minister doesn't know the cost, maybe he's as incompetent as our Minister of Finance. I am wondering, Chair, through you, why the law enforcement notes were removed from the firearms reference table?\nThe Chair: I want to remind the honourable members that parliamentary language is something we need to respect in the House. We should be careful what we say. The honourable minister may reply.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'd just like to advise you and this House that our purpose is to protect the lives of Canadians, and we are taking strong action to strengthen gun control. We are not influenced by the gun lobby or by gun manufacturers, only by our interest in keeping Canadians safe.\nThe Chair: We will now continue to Mr. Duncan.\n",
      "Mr. Eric Duncan (StormontDundasSouth Glengarry, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to start by thanking the government for listening to my proposals a couple of weeks ago regarding the extension of benefits for vulnerable Canadians who may not have been able to file their income tax by this week's deadline. There are millions of relieved seniors with GIS and parents with the child tax benefit and GST who now know they have a bit of time and protection and aren't to be cut off from their benefits. I'm hoping to go two for two here today, so there's no pressure to the Minister of Public Safety. I want to build on the comments last week from Ms. Gladu, my colleague from SarniaLambton, about family reunification between Canadians and Americans. Many constituents in my riding are concerned and are caught in this situation. I certainly support, and I think we support in this chamber, the idea of the extension for travel. However, it's now been three months since many spouses have seen each other, and there are Canadian and American children in custody arrangements who have seen their parent only on one side of the border or the other. After stating for months that reunifying families wasn't considered essential travel, I am thankful that he and the Prime Minister have now said that it is. Will the minister agree to the safe and fair proposal we outlined in our letter last week, which would exempt spouses, children and those with medical needs travelling back and forth with accompanying documentation, so that we can get people and their families back together?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I'd like to thank the member for what I think is a very important question and I want to assure him that I have had similar conversations with members of this House from all parties and representing all parts of the country. We recognize the challenge that this particular policy of restricting non-essential travel has meant for families. It is not our intention and never will be our intention to separate families. We are working very closely with the CBSA to ensure that individuals are treated fairly. I want to share this with the member and honourable members of this House. Any change we make to our arrangement at the border will require a change by an order in council. Because there is a great deal of concern in our communities and from our provincial and territorial partners about the movement of people across our border, any change has to be discussed and negotiated with our provincial partners. Some of them, you may be aware, have expressed some concern, and we're addressing those concerns because we respect their concerns. At the same time we are working very hard, and I am very hopeful that we'll be able to resolve this challenge to the satisfaction of the many Canadians you and everyone else represents.\n",
      "The Chair: I want to remind the honourable members that when they are asking or answering a question, they should speak through the Chair and not directly to the other member. We will go back to Mr. Duncan.\n",
      "Mr. Eric Duncan: We were looking at each other. It's a bad habit. To the minister, I appreciate the comments. I will just note that the Canadian and American governments have worked with provinces, as we have with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, to repatriate Canadians from around the world. There have been quarantine protocols put in place to allow that. There are protocols and there is a precedence. I am just wondering why there is a delay in acknowledging the families part. I believe there is a precedent and I believe there is a background there, and I think we can, through an order in council or whatever measure, get people back with their families. Can the minister explain why reunifying families needs to be any different from repatriating Canadians from other countries?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Again I thank the member, because this is a very important issue and it's important to us as well. We have been working over the past couple of weeks very diligently on trying to find a resolution of this problem, because it is never our intention to separate families and we have all heard some very heart-wrenching concerns that have been raised. At the same time, I think it's important to work very closely, as we have done, with our provincial and territorial partners to ensure that we address the concerns they have raised. We are prepared to move forward and we are working very hard to resolve the concerns that were raised so that we can have a positive answer to those many families, and we\n",
      "The Chair: We will go back to Mr. Duncan.\n",
      "Mr. Eric Duncan: I appreciate that comment from the minister. I want to share the story of a constituent of mine, Mr. David Lee, from Cornwall. He and his wife Maria have been married for a couple of years now. She is an American citizen. They spend about five months of the year in Texas and five months in Cornwall and would generally travel about two months of the year. However, she couldn't come up to Canada because of the restrictions that have been put in place, and it's certainly putting a strain on them. Can the minister confirm that the three concerns we outlined in our letter are being discussed as part of reaching a solution or a resolution as soon as possible? The three concerns are that spouses and long-term partners can be reunited, that children with child custody arrangements can see both of their parents, and that if somebody needs to travel back or forth over the border for medical appointments, they can do that and can stay with their spouse. Can you confirm that all three are on the table and will be addressed?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: What I can confirm is that we're working hard to make sure we keep families together. I want to reiterate, because you raise a very important point, that when people cross the border they're still subject to the quarantine orders of public health. That's for the protection of all Canadians. You mentioned travelling back and forth across the border. If the travel is deemed essential, that is an exception, but if it is not deemed essential, then a person must go into quarantine for 14 days. That's one of the concerns the provinces have raised with us and one of the assurances they have sought. We're working to provide those assurances.\n",
      "The Chair: Before we go to the next line of questioning, I want to remind the honourable members that we have interpreters who are working very hard to translate from one language to the other. I therefore ask you to speak a little more slowly out of consideration for the interpreters, who are doing a really good job. We'll now go to Mr. Kram.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Kram (ReginaWascana, CPC): Mr. Chair, I've had the opportunity to talk with Mr. James Bogusz, CEO of the Regina Airport Authority, and he paints a grim picture. He expects the airport to be out of money by the end of the summer. The loss of the Regina International Airport would be devastating, not only to the city of Regina but also to southern Saskatchewan. The Liberal government has made a great show out of allegedly providing $330 million in assistance to airports through lease deferrals, but here is what it's not telling people: Airport lease payments are already tied to revenue and have been for many years, so when an airport's revenue goes down to zero, its lease payments to the federal government go down to zero, pandemic or no pandemic. That means the government has done absolutely nothing to help Canada's airports. Will the government commit today to providing real assistance to Canada's struggling airports?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: The Minister of Transport has been working very closely with airports, large and small, right across the country. We have continued to update our responses in this rapidly evolving situation. We've been in touch with each of the airports, and we've been working very hard to help them manage through these difficult times. We know that in some circumstances, continued operations at smaller airports have not been possible, but wherever possible we have done our very best to try to accommodate the very real financial challenges these airports are experiencing.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Kram: Mr. Chair, Canada's airports are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy and the Liberal government's response has been to defer their lease payments. These were already based on revenue, so these deferrals are effectively meaningless. In the meantime, the U.S. government's CARES program is providing $10 billion in grants and low-interest forgivable loans to support American airports. Will the government commit today to saving Canada's airports with a similar program of grants and forgivable loans?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, we have worked very hard, and continue to do so, to make sure we provide supports to regional airports right across this country. We know how important air transport is to such a vast country and we know the tremendous work they do. They support communities and the Canadian economy. We're going to work very closely with them to make sure we provide the right supports to help them get through this difficult time, because we know how important they will be to the eventual restart of our economy. Their continued existence and success are important to that restart, and we'll work with them.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Kram: Mr. Chair, the airport crisis goes far beyond my home city of Regina. Airports are vital to Canada's economy, providing over 200,000 jobs nationwide and paying $13 billion in wages and $7 billion in taxes. However, now Canada's airports are on the brink of collapse, and the government has stood idly by as airports have lost over 90% of their revenue. Last month Joyce Carter, chair of the Canadian Airports Council, called on the government for a three-point plan for airport recovery. It includes the permanent elimination of ground leases, substantive loan and bond guarantees and a special plan to support smaller airports that provide vital supplies to rural and remote communities. Could the minister inform the committee if the government has done anything in response to the Canadian Airports Council's request?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I would make the observation that all of our smaller regional airports are vital to the communities they serve. That's why it's important that we work with them all. The Minister of Transport is in regular communication and in ongoing discussions with airport authorities, large and small, right across this country on how we can continue to support them. There have been a number of proposals made by the industry itself and by some of the regional airports on what form that help can take. That's all part of a very important ongoing discussion. I believe it is clear that Canadians need our help, and we are there for Canadians to help them get back on their feet when we get through this pandemic.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Kram, we have time for a 15-second question and a 15-second answer.\nMr. Michael Kram: Mr. Chair, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and Japan have all started free trade negotiations with the United Kingdom. Why hasn't Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (MarkhamThornhill, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for the question. We, of course, are going to make sure that we will always act in the interests of Canadian businesses, and I want to assure Canadians that CETA continues to apply to our trade with the United Kingdom. We will make sure that our further work will always take into account the interests of Canadian businesses.\nThe Chair: We now move to Mr.Therrien.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien (La Prairie, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I would like to know how many full-time and part-time employees are currently working for the Liberal Party of Canada.\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): On a point of order, Mr.Chair. I am not sure that the number of employees at the Liberal Party, the Bloc Qubcois, or the Conservative Party is relevant to government management.\nThe Chair: I am not sure whether that is a point of order, but I will let Mr.Therrien continue.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: If he stays with me, he will understand. He can trust me. I would like to know how many people work full time and part time for the Liberal Party of Canada. It is a simple question.\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: A number of people do.  Some hon. members: Oh, oh!\nMr. Alain Therrien: Mr.Chair, I know that they think its funny to pilfer taxpayers money from government coffers. But that is not our style. The Liberal Party took money through the emergency wage subsidy program. I would just like to know how many people work for the Liberal Party of Canada.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: I do not know how many people work for the Liberal Party, but I can say that the emergency wage subsidy is for all sectors of the economy. That is how we can protect employees across the country who are working for businesses facing a reduction in revenue of 30% or more.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: They have 157MPs and they have known for two weeks that we are working on the wage subsidy. Not one member wondered how many people work for them. They are too busy helping themselves to the cookie jar. In an article in La Presse on May25, Liberal Party spokesman Braeden Caley said that between 75and 100employees were receiving wages subsidized through this program. Is that correct?\nHon. Bill Morneau: I am very focused on our concern, which is to protect Canadians across the country who are working for businesses facing a reduction in revenue of 30% or more. It is very important for them and for our economy.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: Let's use a round number. Let's say 100employees. How many employees in the Liberal Party of Canada are threatened by the pandemic? You should know; it's your party.\nThe Chair: I would like to remind honourable members to direct their questions through the Chair. The honourable minister has the floor.\nHon. Bill Morneau: Thank you, Mr.Chair. We stand by our approach of protecting employees across the country. We want to make sure that they have enough money to meet the challenges that they are facing during the pandemic.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: I would actually say that they want to have enough money for their next election campaign. I would like to know how much taxpayers' money has been taken from the emergency wage subsidy program and will be used as election loot for the Liberal Party of Canada. How much money have you taken from the program?\nHon. Bill Morneau: The emergency wage subsidy program allows us to protect 75% of the income that employees were earning before the crisis, to a maximum of $847. This is important for them and, of course, very important for our economy.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: Mr.Chair, since I am not getting an answer, let me share with you the very simple calculation I cobbled together. One hundred employees at $847 a week is $340,000a month. That is the amount of taxpayers' money that the Liberal Party is putting into its pockets. If we multiply that amount by threethat's three months, since it started on March15we get over $1million. That is the amount they will have put in their pockets, to be used as election loot for the Liberal Party. Given that the Liberals are extending the emergency wage subsidy, will their party continue to help itself to the money?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: The purpose of the emergency wage subsidy is to protect employees. So every business must ensure that the money goes to the employees. That is very important. It is how employees and their incomes are protected. It will help millions of families across the country to be in a better situation.\nThe Chair: Mr.Therrien, you can ask a question of no more than 15seconds.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Therrien: They have already taken $1million out of the register, so that is settled. My question is twofold. First, are they going to pay back that $1million? Second, I hope they will not be taking another $1million by September. Can I at least be reassured of that?\nHon. Bill Morneau: We will continue with our approach to protect employees and businesses needing it during the crisis.\nThe Chair: We will take a short break so that our employees can safely change places. We can now continue.  We'll go now to Mr. Van Bynen.\n",
      "Mr. Tony Van Bynen (NewmarketAurora, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time with the member for Scarborough Centre. Mr. Chair, as parliamentarians, our greatest responsibility is to keep Canadians safe. During the previous Parliament, our government made significant investments in the CBSA and the RCMP, and provided funds to provinces and territories to invest in programs that combat gun and gang violence and support our communities in providing positive alternatives for youth engagement and activities. On May 1, our government banned assault-style weapons. This is something that we pledged to do during the last federal election and something that victims' groups, law enforcement and everyday Canadians called on for decades, but we must know that we need to take more action to keep our communities safe. Mr. Chair, I'm sure that this continues to be an important issue for many communities. Can the minister tell the House and the constituents of NewmarketAurora what further steps our government will take to keep Canadians safe?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, I'd like to begin by thanking the honourable member for NewmarketAurora for his question and for his advocacy on behalf of the safety of his community. Mr. Chair, building upon historic investments that we made in the last Parliament in law enforcement dealing with guns and gangs, we took the important next step in our promise to strengthen Canada's gun control by prohibiting weapons that many in the law enforcement community, including the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, have said have no place in our communities. There is much more to do. We will build on these early steps by strengthening our work and our laws at the border, by taking steps to prevent the theft and criminal diversion of guns and also by making significant investments in kids, families and communities where the conditions give rise to gun violence right across Canada. Mr. Chair, we have much work to do, and we are committed to keeping Canadians safe.\n",
      "The Chair: The next question goes to Ms. Zahid.\n",
      "Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, in cities and towns across Canada, small businesses are the backbones of our local economies. They are also pillars of our communities. Even during these challenging times, we have seen restaurants and other businesses step up to deliver meals to front-line workers and make donations to our local food banks. So many have supported Scarborough Health Network's meals on wheels program. Their leadership has been inspiring. I have heard from many small business owners in Scarborough, from dentists to small manufacturers, who are having trouble paying their commercial rents due to the sharp downturn in business caused by COVID-19. They are interested in how programs like the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program would help them to stay in business, but they worry that these programs may not be able to help if their landlords don't participate. These small businesses are crucial to our community. Could the Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade please explain why it is so important that the landlords participate to help small businesses make it through the pandemic and how we are working to make this program a success, not just here in Scarborough but across Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member of Parliament for her advocacy for the people of Scarborough Centre on this really important question. While rent is an area of provincial responsibility, helping businesses across the country is all of our responsibility. This is why we have stepped up to provide rent relief to businesses while, at the same time, helping property owners maintain the rental income through this crisis. We are asking property owners to do their part in keeping small businesses and their employees to get through these challenging times, and to take advantage of our forgivable loans in order to help small businesses that are the hardest hit by reducing their rent by 75%. This is a win-win situation. Many landlords have already stepped up, and we salute their efforts. We will continue to do what we can to help protect and help our small businesses across Canada from coast to coast to coast.\n",
      "The Chair: The next question goes to Ms. Kwan.\nMs. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP): The $4-billion Canada housing benefit agreement was announced in 2017. It's supposed to provide up to $2,500 per year to help families in need with their rent. We know that poverty and inadequate housing are barriers felt even more by black, indigenous and racialized people. Can the minister tell us how many families have actually received this housing support?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development): Mr. Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for asking about this really special and unique housing benefit. We introduced the Canada housing benefit as part of the national housing strategy to help people as a bridge to permanent housing, people who are in core housing need, are homeless or at risk of homelessness. We have signed agreements with provinces. We hope all of them come to the table to sign this really important cost-sharing\nThe Chair: We will go back to Ms. Kwan.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: It has been two and a half years, and families in need are still waiting. Only one province has signed on, and there has been no national consultation on how such a benefit program would even be implemented. With so little federal leadership, the Canadian Alliance of Non-Profit Housing Associations has stepped up and done the work for the government. They have outlined five key principles to guide the implementation of the Canada housing benefit. Will the minister adopt those principles and get on with ensuring vulnerable families get the rental assistance they need?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, it is really unfortunate that the honourable member thinks that an investment of $55 billion and the commitment of a 10-year federal plan of leadership in affordable housing and community housing is a lack of leadership. It is quite the opposite. The Canada housing benefit is yet another important segment of the national housing strategy, which will ensure people have access to a safe, affordable place to call home. It is being signed by a number of provinces, not just one as the honourable member suggests. There are up to five provinces that have moved on signing on to the Canada housing benefit.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: Then surely the minister can actually tell us how many families benefited from that program. The fact is that two and a half million families are paying more than 30% of their income on rent, and they have been hit hard by this pandemic. Reciting the same message box over and over again will not get them the help they need. Aside from going forward with a housing benefit program, will the government prioritize affordable housing stimulus spending as a key component of any post-COVID stimulus policy?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, joining with provinces and territories and providing real help to members of the community who are experiencing homelessness so they can have a permanent roof over their heads is real action. It's real leadership by our government as part of the Canada housing benefit. This is a real benefit that is going to households in core housing need, people who experience a core housing need and who need a permanent place to call home. The Canada housing benefit is providing real help to thousands and thousands of Canadian households. We will continue to provide that leadership in concert with provinces and territories.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: Well, minister, I would say that B.C. is still looking for the government to step up. We bought our first hotel to house the homeless in permanent housing, and the government has yet to provide any funding to them. The next question is for the Minister of Immigration. The first migrant worker died yesterday due to COVID-19. Migrant workers are warehoused in a space with no barriers between each sleeping cot. Others are housed in crowded communal bunkhouses. What action will the minister take to address this alarming situation?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino (Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship): I thank my colleague for the question, and I want to extend our sympathies regarding the temporary worker who passed away from COVID-19. Of course, we continue to support workers by ensuring that they have the accommodations and the spacing necessary to work when they are here providing food security for all Canadians. We're also providing support to farmers to ensure that those accommodations are made. We put in place the regulations and the rules that are necessary, and we continue to work very closely with our provincial partners as well as leaders in this sector so that we can protect workers and ensure that Canadians have access to safe and affordable food.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan: No one should have to endure such inhumane housing conditions and risk their lives to support their families. We rely on them to put food on the table for our families. They don't have access to health care and they don't have a pathway to permanent residence. Will the minister do the right thing and grant migrant workers health care coverage and ensure the government follows up on the principle that if you're good enough to work, you're good enough to stay?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: In fact, Mr. Chair, I would clarify that temporary foreign workers do have a pathway to permanent residence. Of course, that is an opportunity we will continue to offer those who are ensuring that Canadians have access to healthy, safe and affordable food. We will continue to make the investments that are necessary to maintain a high standard of professionalism and workplace safety.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Arnold.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold (North OkanaganShuswap, CPC): Mr. Chair, fisheries and oceans stakeholders and coastal communities face unprecedented threats from the COVID-19 crisis, and they deserve the support of all levels of government, including their own MPs. Yesterday the Liberal and NDP MPs banded together to restrict the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans to just four hours of sitting in the summer months. Conservatives are ready to put in the hours to support Canadians, while the Liberals and NDP refuse to do the work. When will the Prime Minister tell his MPs to get back to work for the Canadians who need their support?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, we all agree that committees are doing extremely important work, and that's why committees are meeting regularly. I would like to remind my colleague that the committees are masters of their own destiny and make their own decisions, not the government.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Mr. Chair, it took months for DFO to realize that fish passage on the Fraser River was blocked at Big Bar. Then it took them seven more months to tender a contract to clear the blockage. Now that contract has tripled from $17.6 million to over $52.5 million without a single communications post from the minister's office.  The original contract amount was clearly inadequate, so who ordered it?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan (South ShoreSt. Margarets, Lib.): Mr. Chair, since we found out about the landslide at Big Bar, our government has been extremely active in making sure that the salmon have a passage through. We know how critically important the salmon are to the Fraser River, as well as to the indigenous communities along the Fraser. We're working diligently to make sure that we get that passage cleared. So far, we've made significant progress, but we know there's more work that needs to be done. That's why we'll continue to work with indigenous communities and the province to make sure that these\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Mr. Chair, the fisheries minister's mandate letter from November of last year directed her to make new investments in fighting invasive species. Half a year later, the minister has failed to deliver. Canadians on the front line of prevention wrote the minister, and when they got a response five months later, it was devoid of any help. This government's delays are hurting Canada's fight against invasive species. When will the minister follow her Prime Minister's directive and make new investments in the fight against invasive species?\n",
      "Hon. Bernadette Jordan: Mr. Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for the question. Invasive species are a real challenge for our waterways. We know that a lot more has to be done. We're working diligently to find the answers to deal with some of the problems we are seeing from invasive species. We are continuing to monitor situations in waterways. I am committed to making sure that I meet my commitments within my mandate letter, and I will have more to say on that soon.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Mr. Chair, the list of hunting and sport shooting firearms banned by Minister Blair's order in council continues to grow. What other hunting firearms does he plan to ban?\nHon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, to be very clear, the weapons we have prohibited are weapons that were not designed for hunting or sport shooting but for soldiers to use in combat. As law enforcement leaders right across the country have said many times, they have no place in our community, and we agree.\n",
      "Mr. Mel Arnold: Mr. Chair, I continue to hear from constituents in the North OkanaganShuswap who are unable to access supports under the Canada emergency business account or the emergency commercial rent assistance program. Business owners have also lost employees and can't get them to come back to work because of the lack of flexibility in the emergency response benefit and the emergency student benefit. When the Liberals shut down Parliament, they removed our ability to amend legislation and fix their failures. When will the government fix these problems and the programs?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we continue to look at the programs we've put out to support Canadians to make sure that they are actually having the desired impact. As we've moved along, we have said that we need to make amendments. We've committed to extending the wage subsidy, and of course we're looking at all the measures we've put out so we can ensure that people have the support they need during this crisis.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Viersen.\n",
      "Mr. Arnold Viersen: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, an April 1 letter confirms that Deloitte Canada has been contracted to help supply PPE. Was this a sole-source contract?\nHon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement): Mr. Chair, the honourable member is correct that we have contracted with Deloitte to assist us with our operations on the ground in China in order to have an A-to-Z procurement approach to delivering goods\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Can the minister confirm that this was, indeed, a sole-source contract?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, there are a number of goods that need to be procured for Canadian health care professionals to be safe, and that's exactly\nThe Chair: We'll go to Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Yes or no, was this a sole-source contract?\nHon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, I will take that question back to my department and come back to the member with a further, fuller response.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Chair, is Deloitte of Canada able to speak on behalf of PSPC?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, not at all. The contracts that we are entering into are made by us\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: What is the value of the contract with Deloitte?\nHon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, again, that is information that we are not going to release at this time. When the time is right, we will do so.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Many of the suppliers that are in contact with Deloitte of Canada are indigenous contractors. Has the government secured any contracts with indigenous suppliers?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, we are in touch with indigenous suppliers, as we are with many suppliers across Canada and internationally. We are working hard to make sure that we have diverse supply chains across the board, and that means including indigenous suppliers in that mix.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Many of these indigenous suppliers have previously been vetted by the federal government and are certified vendors. Is it appropriate for Deloitte to be recertifying these vendors?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, the honourable member appears to have information regarding Deloitte's certification processes, which would not be outside what the government itself is doing. I encourage him to come forward with a question that actually responds to fact before\nThe Chair: Go ahead, Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Does the minister think that re-vetting suppliers is a good use of resources?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, I'll tell you what I think. I believe that Canada is in a crisis, and I am making every effort to order PPE as Canadian health care workers require.  Some hon. members: Hear, hear!\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Chair, indigenous suppliers stand at the ready to supply PPE to Canada. Has the minister contracted with any indigenous suppliers?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, we are in touch with indigenous suppliers and will continue to ensure that Canada has a diverse supply chain in terms of manufacturers, in terms of products and in terms of countries. That is our commitment to Canadian health care workers\nThe Chair: Now we go back to Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Has the government signed a contract with a single indigenous supplier?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, I would like to say that we are continuing to make sure that our supplier list is confidential, because we are in a crisis and we do not want to jeopardize  The Chair: We go back to Mr. Viersen.\nMr. Arnold Viersen: Mr. Chair, on Friday the association for indigenous business could not name a single indigenous company that had been contracted. Have any of the contracts signed with the federal government between Deloitte Canada and PPE suppliers been filled?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, the member is mistaken. Deloitte is not signing contracts on behalf of the Government of Canada. Deloitte is assisting with and sourcing manufacturers, and all contracts are signed by the government with manufacturers.\nThe Chair: We will now proceed with Mr.Paul-Hus.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (CharlesbourgHaute-Saint-Charles, CPC): Mr.Chair, we have difficulty understanding the government's management of the border. The order between Canada and the United States has an exception allowing refugee claimants to submit their claims in Canada if they have family here and we accept them. However, hundreds of Canadian-American couples cannot be reunited, which is a problem. I find it hard to believe that the minister cannot quickly instruct border services officers to allow spouses to enter the country right now.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, I appreciate very much the member's intervention and the long list of people he sent to me. I'm also working with a number of different families. We remain committed to keeping families together. As I advised this House earlier, Mr. Chair, we're working diligently with our provincial and territorial partners to take the steps necessary to enable people to stay united as they cross the borders and enter into Canada, but to do so safely and not put other Canadians at risk.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Mr.Chair, letting a spouse come home will not put Canadians at risk. A survey conducted in Canada reveals that a large majority of Canadians do not trust the Chinese communist regime at all and do not want Huawei in Canada. The good news today is that BCE and Telus have decided not to do business with Huawei. Now that the government no longer has to worry about BCE and Telus, can they say today that no other company is going to use Huawei and that Huawei will be banned from Canada for 5G?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr.Chair, I thank my colleague for his question. Our government will always protect our networks and ensure that Canadians have access to the latest innovations in telecommunications. A review of 5G technologies and their economic and security considerations is currently under way. We will ensure that Canadians' security and personal information will never be compromised.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: Let me remind the minister that we have been working on this for years and that CSIS has confirmed that Huawei is unreliable as far as Canada's security is concerned. Right now, two Canadians are being unjustly detained by the Chinese communist regime. The same regime continues to lie to the world about COVID-19, block our exports, and terrorize the citizens of Hong Kong. When will the Prime Minister confirm that he is going to ban Huawei from developing 5G in Canada? It is a simple question.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, let's be very clear. Canadians deserve to have access to the most beneficial 5G technology. At the same time, the safety and security of Canada's digital environment will be of paramount consideration. We're doing the work required and we're not basing that agenda on some media report, but instead ensuring that all scientific and security factors are taken into account. We are engaged in robust discussions with our Five Eyes partners, including the United States, and all our security agencies. Mr. Chair, we'll do the work necessary to\nThe Chair: Mr.Paul-Hus has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: The minister does not need a sheet of paper, this matter has been clear for a long time. Everyone is saying that we need to ban Huawei from Canada. I have a quick question for the Minister of Finance. Bell and Telus had each estimated that removing Huawei from their development would cost $1billion. Today we have learned that these companies have decided not to use Huawei. Did the government decide to pay for this under wraps to get out of it? Having said that, my next question is more about the theft on May27. About 90,000surgical masks bound for the Quebec City UHC were stolen from the Toronto airport. As we all know, these masks are critical in the fight against COVID-19. Has the minister called for an investigation? When are we going to find out what happened to those stolen masks that were bound for Quebec?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Mr. Chair, I will gladly look into this issue and get back to my colleague. Our procurements have reached 101 million surgical masks at this time, and they're being distributed to provinces, including Quebec.\nThe Chair: Mr.Paul-Hus, you have time to ask a 15-second question.\n",
      "Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus: It is a little strange. The masks were stolen in Toronto on May27. So they have been gone a long time. I just want to know if there is an investigation and if they will ever be found. I want to address another complex and important issue. A police officer from the Montreal area called me and told me about a current fraud. Some social assistance recipients learned about the CERB and applied for it. Building managers have received a lot of cheques addressed to social assistance recipients. They know it is not legal and it constitutes fraud. The police officer is asking me what to do with the cheques and to whom they should be sent. Should he give them to the fraudsters? How does that work?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion): Mr. Chair, I can assure the member that we have robust mechanisms in place to address CERB fraud. We understand that in delivering this benefit to a million Canadians to date, we had to put more of our integrity measures at the back, but make no mistake: Canadians who behave fraudulently will be held to account, and we will ensure that the money is either repaid or the cheques not cashed.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Moore.\n",
      "Hon. Rob Moore (Fundy Royal, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, there remains a concern across Canada that delays in the criminal courts could result in criminals walking free. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court recently said in an interview that amendments to the Criminal Code could allow this backlog to be addressed. Can the minister outline what work has been done to address the backlog, and when we can expect to see it addressed?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada): Mr. Chair, I thank the honourable member for his question. I can assure him that we are working closely with our provincial and territorial counterparts, who have the primary responsible for the superior courts of justice and therefore the criminal law in their various jurisdictions for the administration of justice in criminal law. I can also say that we have formed an action committee co-chaired by me and the Chief Justice of Canada, again with a variety of different kinds of representation on that committee, to look at the restart of the justice system\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Moore.\n",
      "Hon. Rob Moore: Mr. Chair, weeks ago I raised these concerns with the minister over backlogs in the criminal courts and the risk they present to our justice system. The provinces have significant insight into how this can be addressed, and many provinces have been proactive with their court backlogs. Can the minister outline what work has been done with the provinces on this important issue?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti: We are working with the provinces. There are different practices in each province. We're working to serve in a coordinating role as a repository of information for best practices so that they can be shared across provinces. We're also looking at specific suggestions that provinces have made with respect to reforming the criminal law.\n",
      "Hon. Rob Moore: Many owners of small businesses in my riding, and indeed in all of our ridings, are suffering right now and have received absolutely no help from this government because of technicalities. Two weeks ago, the Prime Minister indicated the government was looking to expand access to the Canada emergency business account to include to those who operate their businesses out of a personal bank account. This is something that we've been calling for over the past several weeks, and businesses cannot wait any longer. Can the minister tell me what we should be telling our constituents about those who are caught up based on a technicality and are not able to access this important measure?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for that really important question. I want to assure the small business owners in his community and all across the country just how important they are and how difficult a time this is for them. We absolutely understand. We are hearing you and we are working as hard and as fast as we can to make sure that those business owners get access to this very important support. I would like to highlight, though, that owners of 650,000 small businesses across the country are getting the loan support. Of course, there is more to do, and we will keep working hard for those business owners.\n",
      "Hon. Rob Moore: The lack of access to high-speed Internet remains a major issue across my home province of New Brunswick. This is a significant barrier to rural economic development. It impacts the quality of life of rural constituents. The lack of progress and transparency on rural Internet is frustrating for residents, for municipal leaders and for small business owners who are already suffering due to COVID. When will a new plan for rural Internet be introduced, and how quickly can we expect it to be deployed?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: Mr. Chair, our government has a plan to connect Canadians to high-speed Internet. To date, we've set aside investments to connect a million households, and there's more work to be done. We will be announcing our next steps to connect more Canadians through the universal broadband funds in the days to come. I look forward to communities across the country benefiting from federal investments and the private investments that our investments will bring.\nHon. Rob Moore: On the issue of commercial rent, how is the government going to ensure that business owners whose landlords still refuse to participate in the government's program receive the support that they need to stay open at this time?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, as the member knows and would understand, rent between small business owners and landlords is a provincial jurisdiction. That said, we've moved forward to try to ensure that there's a process so that those landlords and the commercial tenants can work together to come up with a solution that will work for both. We're seeing landlords\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Atwin.\n",
      "Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Nicholas Gibbs, Colten Boushie, Tina Fontaine, Alain Magloire and Breonna Taylor were not all born on the same side of the border, but they all lost their lives at the hand of the same cruel enemy: racism. We cannot, here in Canada, think higher of ourselves when we are reading the headlines of our neighbour. We cannot ignore our history, past or present. The final report from the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls stated that indigenous women and girls have faced a Canadian genocide. In 2018 a report revealed that a black person was almost 20 times more likely than a white person to be fatally shot by the Toronto police, and a 2019 report exposed systemic bias among the Montreal police force against black and indigenous people. Black lives matter. Indigenous lives matter. I am asking the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, as per her mandate, what exactly our government intends to do now to fight racism among its institutions. If the anti-racism secretariat has in fact been established, what priorities have been actioned?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth): I would like to thank the member for that very important question. I will state that it is essential that we all work together, not only during this challenging time but during the times that come out of it. On the comments that were shared earlier, this is another life lost that should not have been lost. Yes, the anti-racism secretariat has been established. This is a resource not only for Canadians but also for government agencies to better the way in which we do work internally as well, including advancement opportunities. We know that the decision-making table does not reflect the diversity of our country. That's exactly why we came out with an open, transparent, merit-based appointment process: so that we can see the country's diversity reflected at the decision-making table. There is a lot more work to do. I can assure the member and all Canadians that my eyes are open, my ears are open and I am an ally. I will work as hard as possible to be that voice at the cabinet table. I cannot experience what it is to be a black Canadian, but I can tell you that your voices will be represented and they will be heard. I see you.\n",
      "Mrs. Jenica Atwin: Mr. Chair, it has been four years since the settlement payment for sixties scoop survivors was approved. That resolution hasn't taken place. The pain continues. Why is it that the 12,500 class members who have been determined eligible still haven't received the payments they are owed? These people deserve justice without any delay, especially in light of COVID-19 and the added pressures facing communities. Can the minister confirm exactly when these survivors will receive the interim payment?\n",
      "Hon. Carolyn Bennett: Thank you very much. Thank you for your advocacy on all these truly important things. As you know, because of the exceptional circumstance of COVID-19, the class counsel, with the support of Canada, was seeking direction from the courts to issue partial payments to the class members with a valid claim. On June 1 the Federal Court granted that order. A similar motion is before the Ontario Superior Court. Once granted, eligible class members can expect to receive partial payments of $21,000 over the coming weeks. Canada welcomes the Federal Court's\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Ms. Atwin.\n",
      "Mrs. Jenica Atwin: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Eighty per cent of people who are diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or ALS, will die within two to five years of receiving the diagnosis. The pandemic has made it more difficult than ever for these people to access medical appointments and treatment. They do not have the luxury of time. They want to live and to share moments with their families and their loved ones. The lack of urgency to approve new trials and therapies in Canada directly impacts the life expectancy of people with ALS. Can the Minister of Health commit to taking leadership on this file, removing the barriers to accessing these promising treatments and therapies, and ensuring that the costs of these treatments will be covered?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Thank you very much for the very important question. We know that people living with ALS and their families struggle immensely every single day. Of course the member opposite has my commitment to work with the community and with manufacturers of drugs that are promising for ALS to expedite approval in a safe way that protects the health of Canadians but also provides treatment in an affordable way for all Canadians.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Green.\n",
      "Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP): Mr. Chair, I can't breathe and I'm tired, and today we've heard a lot of progressive words from the Prime Minister, but he hasn't really said anything. If the Prime Minister will not provide leadership in this House, will anybody from his cabinet here today commit to taking concrete steps to address anti-black racism?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger: Mr. Chair, yes, we do commit. That's exactly why we will listen more. We will acknowledge that racism is alive in Canada. We know we must do better. However, I also need the member to recognize that this work has started. The open, transparent, merit-based appointment process is resulting in the decision-making table better reflecting Canadians. We recognize the UN international\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Green.\nMr. Matthew Green: Mr. Chair, will the member then commit today to make it a legal requirement to collect race-based data across all the ministries?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger: Mr. Chair, the recently announced immunity task force is providing disaggregated data to decision-makers, because decisions need to be based on science and evidence. Yes, I will work across all departments to ensure that data is better collected.\n",
      "Mr. Matthew Green: Mr. Chair, that's not a legal requirement. It is also not lost on the black community that the former Toronto chief of police, the architect of this country's largest profiling program under the guise of street checks or carding, was made this country's Minister of Public Safety by this Prime Minister. As the tragic consequence of the unlawful, unconstitutional and racist practices in Toronto, black people are 20 times more likely than non-black people to be murdered by police. Does the Minister of Public Safety now admit that the police practice of street checks and carding is in fact a significant factor in Canada's systemic anti-black and anti-indigenous racism, and will he act to immediately end it today?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, let me be very clear. First of all, every Canadian is entitled to bias-free and culturally competent policing. I know from experience that there is nothing more corrosive to the relationship of trust that must exist between the police and racialized communities than the issue of racism or the biased influences of those decisions. Mr. Chair, racial profiling is not only abhorrent and unacceptable, it's in fact unlawful. It's contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and it's contrary to the Canadian Human Rights Act. We are working diligently within all of the federal agencies under my purview to ensure that all officers receive training on culturally competent and bias-free delivery of service. We remain committed to creating a diverse workforce that truly reflects and respects the diverse people of this country.\n",
      "Mr. Matthew Green: Nobody knows better through experience about the corrosive practice of street checks than I do. Will the minister now apologize to the black community for the harm caused under his tenure as chief of police?\nHon. Bill Blair: Just to be very clear, Mr. Chair, I actually worked with the diverse communities of Toronto for nearly four decades. I worked with extraordinary leaders from the black community and I learned extensively from their lived experience. We worked tirelessly to ensure the safety of all of the people in all of our diverse communities.\n",
      "Mr. Matthew Green: Bill C-51 was introduced by the Conservatives and supported by the Liberals, including this Prime Minister. It declared indigenous, racial, economic justice, and environmental activists as domestic terrorists. Each province was mandated to enact anti-terrorism protocols, which became a direction for the local police to engage in the practice of street checks or racial profiling. Given what he has said today in the House, will this Minister of Public Safety work to repeal the changes made under Bill C-51?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, I will repeat for the member opposite that racial profiling and bias in the delivery of policing service is not only unacceptable and abhorrent but unlawful. It's contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms; it is contrary to the Canadian Human Rights Act. It cannot ever be tolerated in policing in any place in Canada, but we learned from the lived experience of black and indigenous communities, who tell us that this is still their lived experience, so there is a great deal of work left to do.\nThe Chair: It is now Mr.Champoux's turn. Mr.Champoux, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ): Mr.Chair, I will be sharing my time with the honourable member for Joliette. Supplementary unemployment benefits, or SUBs, give employers the opportunity to enhance their employees' employment insurance benefits when they need to temporarily lay them off. A number of companies, including Soprema in Drummond, have done so with the guarantee that the government would maintain the SUB terms when employment insurance is converted to the CERB. However, surprise, surprise, when the employees applied for the CERB in May, they found that they did not meet the criteria because the amount of SUBs they have received exceeded $1,000, the CERB income limit. In addition, they must reimburse the CERB because they found that they were not eligible for it. So, what does the Minister of Finance intend to do to correct his error?\n",
      "The Chair: We will pause for a second. We have a point of order on the floor. Go ahead, Mr. Green.\nMr. Matthew Green: I posed the most important question. I had 10 seconds left by my count on my time before I was cut off, and I would appreciate, given the seriousness of the conversation here today, if the honourable Minister of Public Safety will please answer the question: Will he apologize to the black community for the irreparable harm that was caused by the racist process of street checks and carding?\n",
      "The Chair: The way I work it is that if there are 15 seconds or less, we go on to the next one, because it's not really enough time to ask a question and get an answer. I will move on to Mr. Champoux. He did ask a question, and we'll let Ms. Qualtrough, the honourable minister, answer.\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, SUB plans that existed prior to March 15 are very much alive and in place for companies, employers and their employees. The CERB allows employers to top up an employee's wages to the maximum of a $1,000. As was said, Mr. Chair, in order to deliver this important critical benefit to Canadians, we had to go outside of the EI system. That decision was made, and as a result, eight million Canadians are being helped.\n",
      "Mr. Martin Champoux: Mr.Chair, SUBs do not have an employment insurance cap. Employers can contribute as much as they want, and they were assured that this would be the case with the CERB. Otherwise, they would have opted for another program. Let me put my question to the Minister of Finance again, in the hope that he will be the one to answer it. When does he intend to fix this error?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: I thank the member for his question, Mr. Chair. As we can all appreciate, delivering a benefit of this magnitude as quickly as possible to as many Canadians as possible, both those who were EI eligible and those who were outside of EI, resulted in our having to take some decisions to streamline processes and the system. SUB plans are available for employers\nThe Chair: Mr.Ste-Marie, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Mr.Chair, I will continue on the subject of supplementary unemployment benefits. Let me remind everyone that Service Canada has entered into agreements with companies and is not honouring them. The victims are thousands and thousands of workers who have to reimburse the Canada emergency response benefit, as my colleague just explained. I also have the question my colleague from Drummond asked: why is the government not doing the same thing it does with employment insurance and not counting the benefits paid out as part of earned income? It is simple.\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, as legislated, we needed to set up a straightforward, simple benefit to deliver to as many people as possible. The nuance and sophistication of the EI system was not available to us. As a result, as I said, eight million Canadians are getting the CERB. Service Canada is working with each and every employee who is in a repayment situation. We do not want to put anybody in a more difficult situation.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, the truth is that the government has forgotten the thousands of workers covered under a supplementary unemployment benefit agreement. We are talking about mothers and fathers. When the government rolled out its Canada emergency response benefit, it was overwhelmed and it forgot about them. The government can fix it right here, right now. Does it want to do that?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Mr. Chair, let me clarify that employees who were covered by a SUB plan prior to March 15 are indeed covered by that plan. We're working with employers to make sure that their workers have this benefit, regardless of whether or not the CERB is in place. Those who accessed EI after March 15 have been streamlined into the CERB process, and their employers can help them with up to $1,000 a month.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, we really do not have the same information. Agreements were signed before March15 for subsequent periods, but there was an agreement with Service Canada. Companies have tried to contact Service Canada by telephone, but no one is answering. They have tried by email, but no one is replying either. The companies have decided to honour their part of the contract and pay out the SUB. However, the government says that, after the fact, it changed the rules that had previously applied, and it is no longer honouring its agreement. As I understand it, the government does not want to straighten out the situation, and that is unacceptable.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, I want to reassure the honourable member that we have moved quickly to deal with the unprecedented volumes at Service Canada. We have set up a 1,500-agent call centre to help people through the CERB, as well as redeploying 3,000 additional staff to make sure that people are helped through the EI process.\nThe Chair: Now we'll go to the next question, which is from Mr. Redekopp.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Redekopp (Saskatoon West, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. As of December 31, 2019, the total number of pending veterans' disability benefits applications had already grown to over 46,000. These are the most recent public figures. What is the current total number of pending veterans' disability benefits applications before Veterans Affairs?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs): I am sorry, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for the question and for giving me the opportunity to respond to the Parliament of Canada from my home in Midgell. As I indicated earlier in the House of Commons, I can assure the member that one of my major priorities is to make sure that we deal with the backlog and that the veterans of Canada receive the benefits they truly deserve and need.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Redekopp: Those 46,000 applications from December of 2019 represent over 30,000 individual veterans. These are men and women who are suffering. How many individual veterans are currently caught in the backlog?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I again thank my colleague. The fact is that service delivery and providing support to our veterans are of course my top priorities. As you understand, with this pandemic there are some difficulties, but we are processing the same number of decisions daily. Our\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Redekopp.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Redekopp: On March 10, we learned that the average time that a veteran was waiting to have their disability benefit application processed had grown to 32 weeks. What is the current average time a veteran is waiting to have their disability benefit application processed?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as I indicated, what we're doing is working to make sure that we streamline the process, make sure that some of the applications can be done automatically. Some cannot, because we have to make sure that what's provided to the veteran is adequate for the disability they\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Redekopp.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Redekopp: It seems as though having numbers is a difficult challenge for this government. On March 10, the deputy minister of Veterans Affairs committed to providing the veterans affairs committee with an updated, written plan on how the department will resolve this backlog. This plan was to include timelines. When will the veterans affairs committee be provided with this plan?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I can assure my honourable colleague that of course the veterans affairs committee does vitally important work. I know how important this piece of information is for them. My department is now working to make sure that the report itself reflects the reality we now face with the situation in the country. I can assure my honourable colleague\nThe Chair: We'll go to Mr. Redekopp.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Redekopp: Mr. Chair, I'm sure that the department had a draft plan prior to COVID-19, so I wonder if Mr. MacAulay can provide the committee with that plan right now, rather than wait.\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I can assure my honourable colleague that we are working diligently to make sure that this report is prepared, and prepared properly, for the committee. As I said before, I fully understand the importance of the committee and the great work it does\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Redekopp.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Redekopp: Can the minister give us a timeline of when this report will be given to the committee?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, it's difficult to give a timeline. I want to make sure that the report itself reflects the reality of the situation to make sure that the committee\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Redekopp.\nMr. Brad Redekopp: The minister's mandate letter instructed Mr. MacAulay to implement a system of automatic approval for the most common disability applications. When will this system be implemented?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, of course this all ties in to the report that the veterans affairs committee is waiting for and to make sure that we're in place in order to make sure that the automatic approval can work and to make sure that veterans receive the proper\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Redekopp.\nMr. Brad Redekopp: If automatic approval is implemented, does the minister know how many applications this measure will remove from the backlog?\n"
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  },
  {
    "id": 69,
    "question": "Summarize the Meeting ",
    "answer": "Members of the team discussed options to encode aspects of conversation that cannot be captured through microphones. overlaps, as well as methods to deduce the length of pauses and the reasons behind them. This led to discussing how else to document the conversations, and archive each participant\u2019s responses separately. ",
    "docs": [
      "PhD B: We 're , I mean {pause} we {disfmarker} We didn't have a house before .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD E: OK .\nProfessor D: We 're on again ? OK .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . That is really great .\nGrad H: Yeah , so if {pause} uh {disfmarker} {pause} So if anyone hasn't signed the consent form , please do so .\nPhD A: That 's terrific .\nPhD B: Oh , yeah !\nProfessor D: OK\nGrad H: The new consent form . The new and improved consent form .\n",
      "PhD A: Now you won't be able to walk or ride your bike , huh ?\nProfessor D: OK .\nPostdoc F: Uh .\nPhD B: Right .\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad H: And uh , shall I go ahead and do some digits ?\nProfessor D: Uh , we were gonna do that at the end , remember ?\nGrad H: OK , whatever you want .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Just {disfmarker} just to be consistent , from here on in at least , that {disfmarker} {pause} that we 'll do it at the end .\nPhD B: The new consent form .\n",
      "Grad H: It 's uh {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah , it doesn't matter . OK .\nProfessor D: OK Um Well , it ju I mean it might be that someone here has to go ,\nPostdoc F: Testing , one , two , three .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker} Right ? That was {disfmarker} that was sort of the point . So , uh {pause} I had asked actually anybody who had any ideas for an agenda {pause} to send it to me and no one did . So ,\nGrad H: So we all forgot .\nProfessor D: Uh ,\n",
      "Postdoc F: From last time I wanted to {disfmarker} Uh {pause} {pause} The {disfmarker} An iss uh {pause} one topic from last time .\nProfessor D: Right , s OK , so one item for an agenda is uh {pause} Jane has some uh {vocalsound} uh some research to talk about , research issues . Um {pause} and {pause} Uh , Adam has some short research issues .\nGrad H: And I have some {pause} short research issues .\n",
      "Professor D: Um , I have a {pause} list of things that I think were done over the last three months I was supposed to {vocalsound} {vocalsound} send off , uh {pause} and , um {pause} I {disfmarker} I sent a note about it to uh {disfmarker} to Adam and Jane but I think I 'll just run through it {pause} also and see if someone thinks it 's inaccurate or {pause} uh insufficient .\nPhD A: A list that you have to send off to who ?\nProfessor D: Uh , to uh uh , IBM .\nPhD A: Oh .\n",
      "Professor D: OK . They 're , you know {disfmarker}\nPhD E: \nProfessor D: So . Um , So , uh {pause} so , I 'll go through that . Um , {pause} And , Anything else ? {pause} anyone wants to talk about ?\nPhD A: What about the , um {disfmarker} your trip , yesterday ?\nProfessor D: No . OK . Um . Sort of off - topic I guess .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor D: Cuz that 's {pause} Cuz that was all {disfmarker} all about the , uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can chat with you about that {pause} off - line . That 's another thing . Um , And , Anything else ? Nothing else ? Uh , there 's a {disfmarker} I mean , there is a {disfmarker} {pause} a , um {pause} uh {pause} telephone call tomorrow , {pause} which will be a conference call {pause} that some of us are involved in {pause} for uh a possible proposal . Um , we 'll talk {disfmarker} we 'll talk about it next week if {disfmarker} if something {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Do you want me to {pause} be there for that ? I noticed you C C ' ed me , but I wasn't actually a recipient . I didn't quite know what to make of that .\nProfessor D: Uh Well , we 'll talk {disfmarker} talk about that after our meeting . OK .\nGrad H: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh , OK . So it sounds like the {disfmarker} the three main things that we have to talk about are , uh this list , uh Jane and {disfmarker} Jane and Adam have some research items , and , other than that , anything , {pause} as usual , {pause} anything goes beyond that . OK , uh , Jane , since {disfmarker} since you were sort of cut off last time why don't we start with yours , make sure we get to it .\n",
      "Postdoc F: OK , it 's {disfmarker} it 's very {pause} eh {disfmarker} it 's {pause} very brief , I mean {disfmarker} just let me {disfmarker} just hand these out . Oops .\nGrad H: Is this the same as the email or different ?\nPhD C: Thanks .\nPostdoc F: It 's slightly different . I {disfmarker} {pause} basically the same .\nGrad H: OK .\nPhD A: Same idea ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: But , same idea . So , if you 've looked at this you 've seen it before , so {pause} Basically , {vocalsound} um {pause} as you know , uh {pause} part of the encoding {pause} includes a mark that indicates {pause} an overlap . It 's not indicated {pause} with , um {pause} uh , tight precision , it 's just indicated that {disfmarker} OK , so , It 's indicated to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} so the people know {pause} what parts of sp which {disfmarker} which stretches of speech were in the clear , versus being overlapped by others . So , I {pause} used this mark and , um {pause} and , uh {pause} uh , {pause} divided the {disfmarker} I wrote a script {pause} which divides things into individual minutes , {pause} of which we ended up with forty {pause} five , and a little bit . And , uh {pause} you know , minute zero , of course , is the first minute up to {pause} sixty seconds .\n",
      "PhD C: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And , um {pause} What you can see is the number of overlaps {pause} and then {pause} to the right , {pause} whether they involve two speakers , three speakers , or more than three speakers . And , {pause} um {pause} and , what I was looking for sp sp specifically was the question of {pause} whether they 're distributed evenly throughout or whether they 're {pause} bursts of them . Um . And {pause} it looked to me as though {disfmarker} uh , you know {disfmarker} y this is just {disfmarker} {pause} eh {disfmarker} eh , this would {disfmarker} this is not statistically {pause} verified , {pause} but it {pause} did look to me as though there are bursts throughout , rather than being {pause} localized to a particular region . The part down there , where there 's the maximum number of {disfmarker} {pause} of , um {pause} overlaps is an area where we were discussing {pause} {vocalsound} whether or not it would be useful to indi to s to {pause} code {pause} stress , {pause} uh , sentence stress {pause} as possible indication of , uh {pause} information retrieval . So it 's like , {pause} you know , rather , {pause} lively discussion there .\n",
      "Professor D: What was {disfmarker} what 's the {disfmarker} the parenthesized stuff {pause} that says , like {disfmarker} e the first one that says six overlaps and then two point eight ?\nPostdoc F: Oh , th {vocalsound} {pause} That 's the per cent .\nProfessor D: Mmm .\nPostdoc F: So , six is , uh {pause} two point eight percent {pause} of the total number of overlaps in the {pause} session .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Ah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: At the very end , this is when people were , {pause} you know , packing up to go basically , there 's {pause} this final stuff , I think we {disfmarker} {pause} I don't remember where the digits {pause} fell . I 'd have to look at that . But {pause} the final three there are no overlaps at all . And {pause} couple times there {pause} are not .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: So , i it seems like it goes through bursts {pause} but , um {pause} that 's kind of it .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Now , {pause} Another question is {pause} is there {disfmarker} are there {pause} individual differences in whether you 're likely to be overlapped with or to overlap with others . And , again {pause} I want to emphasize this is just one {pause} particular {pause} um {disfmarker} {pause} one particular meeting , and also there 's been no statistical testing of it all , but {pause} I , um {pause} I took the coding of {pause} the {disfmarker} I , you know , my {disfmarker} I had this script {pause} figure out , um {pause} who {pause} was the first speaker , who was the second speaker involved in a two - person overlap , I didn't look at the ones involving three or more . And , um {pause} {pause} this is how it breaks down in the individual cells of {pause} who tended to be overlapping most often with who {disfmarker} who else , and {pause} if you look at the marginal totals , which is the ones on the right side and across the bottom , you get {pause} the totals for an individual . So , {vocalsound} um {pause} If you {pause} look at the bottom , those are the , um {pause} numbers of overlaps in which {pause} um {pause} Adam was involved as the person doing the overlapping and if you look {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , but you 're o alphabetical , that 's why I 'm choosing you And then if you look across the right , {pause} then {pause} that 's where he was the {pause} person who was the sp first speaker in the pair {pause} and got overlap overlapped with by somebody .\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm !\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: And , {pause} then if you look down in the summary table , {pause} then you see that , um {pause} th they 're differences in {pause} whether a person got overlapped with or {pause} overlapped by .\nGrad H: Is this uh {pause} just raw counts or is it {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Raw counts .\nGrad H: So it would be interesting to see how much each person spoke .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah {vocalsound} Yeah\nPostdoc F: Yes , very true {disfmarker} very true\nGrad H: Normalized to how much {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: it would be good to normalize with respect to that . Now on the table I did {pause} take one step toward , uh {pause} away from the raw frequencies by putting , {pause} uh {pause} percentages . So that the percentage of time {pause} of the {disfmarker} of the times that a person spoke , {pause} what percentage {pause} eh , w so . Of the times a person spoke and furthermore was involved in a two two - person overlap , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} what percentage of the time were they the overlapper and what percent of the time were they th the overlappee ? And there , it looks like you see some differences , um , {pause} that some people tend to be overlapped {pause} with more often than they 're overlapped , but , of course , uh i e {vocalsound} this is just one meeting , {pause} uh {pause} there 's no statistical testing involved , and that would be {pause} required for a {disfmarker} for a finding {pause} of {pause} any {pause} kind of {pause} scientific {pause} reliability .\n",
      "Professor D: S so , i it would be statistically incorrect to conclude from this that Adam talked too much or something .\nGrad H: No {disfmarker} no actually , that would be actually statistically correct ,\nProfessor D: Yeah , yeah .\nPostdoc F: No , no , no .\nPhD E: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , yeah .\nGrad H: but\nPostdoc F: Yeah , that 's right .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Excuse me .\nPostdoc F: That 's right . And I 'm {pause} you know , I 'm {disfmarker} I don't see a point of singling people out ,\n",
      "Professor D: B I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I rather enjoyed it , but {disfmarker} but this\nPostdoc F: now , this is a case where obviously {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But the numbers speak for themselves .\nPhD E: He 's {disfmarker} Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nPostdoc F: Well , {vocalsound} you know , it 's like {disfmarker} I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm not saying on the tape who did {pause} better or worse\n",
      "Grad H: Yes , that 's right , so you don't nee OK .\nProfessor D: Sure .\nPostdoc F: because {pause} I don't think that it 's {disfmarker} I {pause} you know , and {disfmarker} and th here 's a case where of course , human subjects people would say be sure that you anonymize the results , {pause} and {disfmarker} and , so , might as well do this .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , when {disfmarker} this is what {disfmarker} This is actually {disfmarker} when Jane sent this email first , is what caused me to start thinking about anonymizing the data .\nPostdoc F: Well , fair enough . Fair enough .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: And actually , {pause} you know , the point is not about an individual , it 's the point about {pause} tendencies toward {pause} you know , different styles , different speaker styles .\nProfessor D: Oh sure .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And {pause} it would be , you know {pause} of course , {pause} there 's also the question of what type of overlap was this , and w what were they , and i and I {disfmarker} and I know that I can distinguish at least three types and , probably more , I mean , the {vocalsound} general {pause} {vocalsound} cultural idea which w uh , the conversation analysts originally started with in the seventies was that we have this {vocalsound} strict model where politeness involves that you let the person finish th before you start talking , and {pause} and you know , I mean , {pause} w we know that {disfmarker} {pause} an and they 've loosened up on that too s in the intervening time , that {pause} that that 's {disfmarker} that 's viewed as being {pause} a culturally - relative thing , I mean , {pause} that you have the high - involvement style from the East Coast where people {vocalsound} will overlap often as an indication of interest in what the other person is saying . And\n",
      "Grad H: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: Exactly !\nPostdoc F: Yeah , exactly !\nPhD E: Yeah\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well , there you go . Fine , that 's alright , that 's OK . And {disfmarker} and , {pause} you know , in contrast , so Deborah {disfmarker} d and also Deborah Tannen 's {pause} thesis she talked about differences of these types , {pause} that they 're just different styles , and it 's um {pause} you {disfmarker} you can't impose a model of {disfmarker} {pause} there {disfmarker} of the ideal being no overlaps , and {pause} you know , conversational analysts also agree with that , so it 's {pause} now , universally {pause} a ag agreed with . And {disfmarker} and , als I mean , I can't say universally , but anyway , the people who used to say it was strict , {pause} um {pause} now , uh {pause} don't . I mean they {disfmarker} they {pause} also {pause} {vocalsound} you know , uh {pause} uh , ack acknowledge the influence of {pause} sub of subcultural norms and {pause} cross - cultural norms and things . So , um Then it beco {pause} though {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} just superficially to give {pause} um {pause} a couple ideas of the types of overlaps involved , I have at the bottom several that I noticed . So , {pause} {vocalsound} uh , there are backchannels , like what Adam just did now and , um {pause} {vocalsound} um , anticipating the end of a question and {pause} simply answering it earlier , and there are several of those in this {disfmarker} in these data where {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: because we 're {pause} people who 've talked to each other , um {pause} we know {pause} basically what the topic is , what the possibilities are and w and we 've spoken with each other so we know basically what the other person 's style is likely to be and so {vocalsound} and t there are a number of places where someone just answered early . No problem . And places {pause} also which I thought were interesting , where two or more people gave exactly th the same answer in unison {disfmarker} different words of course but you know , the {disfmarker} basically , {pause} you know everyone 's saying \" yes \" or {disfmarker} you know , or ev even more sp specific than that . So , uh , the point is that , um {pause} {vocalsound} overlap 's not necessarily a bad thing and that it would be im {pause} i useful to subdivide these further and see if there are individual differences in styles with respect to the types involved . And that 's all I wanted to say on that , {pause} unless people have questions .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , of course th the biggest , {pause} um {pause} result here , which is one we 've {disfmarker} {pause} we 've talked about many times and isn't new to us , but which I think would be interesting to show someone who isn't familiar with this {vocalsound} {pause} is just the sheer number of overlaps .\nGrad H: Yep .\nProfessor D: That {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} Right ? {pause} that {disfmarker} that , um\nPhD E: Yes , yes !\nPostdoc F: Oh , OK {disfmarker} interesting .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: here 's a relatively short meeting , it 's a forty {disfmarker} {pause} forty plus minute {pause} {vocalsound} meeting , and not only were there two hundred and fifteen overlaps {vocalsound} {pause} but , {pause} uh I think there 's one {disfmarker} {pause} one minute there where there {disfmarker} where {disfmarker} where there wasn't any overlap ?\nGrad H: Hundred ninety - seven .\n",
      "Professor D: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} {pause} {vocalsound} uh throughout this thing ?\nPhD A: It 'd be interesting {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: It 's {disfmarker} You have {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Well , at the bottom , you have the bottom three .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: S n are {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: So four {disfmarker} four minutes all together with none {disfmarker} none .\nPhD A: But it w\n",
      "Professor D: Oh , so the bottom three did have s stuff going on ? There was speech ?\nPostdoc F: Yes , uh - huh . Yeah . But just no overlaps .\nProfessor D: OK , so if {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It 'd be interesting to see what the total amount of time is in the overlaps , versus {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Yes , exactly and that 's {disfmarker} that 's where Jose 's pro project comes in .\nPhD E: Yeah , yeah , I h I have this that infor I have th that information now .\n",
      "PhD G: I was about to ask {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD B: Hmm .\nProfessor D: Oh , about how much is it ?\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} the duration of eh {disfmarker} of each of the overlaps .\nProfessor D: O oh , what 's {disfmarker} what 's the {disfmarker} what 's the average {pause} length ?\n",
      "PhD E: M I {disfmarker} I haven't averaged it now but , uh {pause} I {disfmarker} I will , uh I will do the {disfmarker} the study of the {disfmarker} {pause} with the {disfmarker} with the program with the {disfmarker} uh , the different , uh {pause} the , nnn , {pause} distribution of the duration of the overlaps .\nProfessor D: You don't know ? OK , you {disfmarker} you don you don't have a feeling for roughly how {pause} much it is ? Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: mmm , {pause} Because the {disfmarker} the uh , @ @ is @ @ .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: The duration is , uh {pause} the variation {disfmarker} the variation of the duration is uh , very big on the dat\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc F: I suspect that it will also differ , {pause} depending on the type of overlap {pause} involved .\nPhD E: but eh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Oh , I 'm sure .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: So backchannels will be very brief\n",
      "PhD E: Because , on your surface eh {pause} a bit of zone of overlapping with the duration eh , overlapped and another very very short .\nPostdoc F: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Uh , i probably it 's very difficult to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} because the {disfmarker} the overlap is , uh on is only the {disfmarker} in the final \" S \" of the {disfmarker} of the {disfmarker} the fin the {disfmarker} the end {disfmarker} the end word of the , um {pause} previous speaker {vocalsound} with the {disfmarker} the next word of the {disfmarker} the new speaker .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Um , I considered {pause} that 's an overlap but it 's very short , it 's an \" X \" with a {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} the idea is probably , eh {pause} when eh {disfmarker} when eh , we studied th th that zone , eh {pause} {pause} eh , we h we have eh eh {pause} confusion with eh eh noise .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: With eh {pause} that fricative sounds , but uh {pause} I have new information but I have to {disfmarker} to study .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . Yeah , but I {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} {vocalsound} u\nPhD G: Can I {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: go ahead .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nPhD G: You split this by minute , um {pause} so if an overlap straddles {pause} the boundary between two minutes , that counts towards both of those minutes .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yes . Mm - hmm . Actually , um {vocalsound} um {pause} actually not . Uh , so {pause} le let 's think about the case where {vocalsound} A starts speaking {pause} {vocalsound} and then B overlaps with A , {pause} and then the minute boundary happens . And let 's say that {vocalsound} after that minute boundary , {vocalsound} um {pause} B is still speaking , {pause} and A overlaps {pause} with B , that would be a new overlap . But otherwise {pause} um , let 's say B {pause} comes to the conclusion of {disfmarker} of that turn without {pause} anyone overlapping with him or her , in which case there would be no overlap counted in that second minute .\n",
      "PhD G: No , but suppose they both talk simultaneously {vocalsound} {pause} both a {disfmarker} a portion of it is in minute one and another portion of minute two .\n",
      "Postdoc F: OK . In that case , um {pause} my c {pause} the coding that I was using {disfmarker} {vocalsound} since we haven't , {pause} uh {pause} incorporated Adam 's , uh {pause} coding of overlap yets , the coding of Yeah , \" yets \" is not a word . Uh {vocalsound} since we haven't incorporated Adam 's method of handling overl overlaps yet {vocalsound} um {pause} then {pause} that would have fallen through the cra cracks . It would be an underestimate of the number of overlaps because , um {pause} I wou I wouldn't be able to pick it up from the way it was {pause} encoded so far .\n",
      "Professor D: I I\nPostdoc F: We just haven't done th the precise second to sec you know , {pause} second to second coding of when they occur .\nProfessor D: I I I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm confused now . So l l let me restate what I thought Andreas was saying and {disfmarker} and see .\nPostdoc F: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor D: Let 's say that in {disfmarker} in second fifty - seven {pause} {vocalsound} of one minute , {pause} you start talking and I start talking and {pause} we ignore each other and keep on talking for six seconds .\nPostdoc F: Yep . OK . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So we go over {disfmarker} So we were {disfmarker} we were talking over one another , {pause} and it 's just {disfmarker} in each case , it 's just sort of one {pause} interval . Right ?\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm ?\n",
      "Professor D: So , um {pause} we talked over the minute boundary . Is this {pause} considered as one overlap in each of the minutes , the way you have done this .\nPostdoc F: No , it wouldn't . It would be considered as an overlap in the first one .\nProfessor D: OK , so that 's {pause} good , i I think , in the sense that I think Andreas meant the question ,\nPhD B: That 's {disfmarker} {pause} that 's good , yeah , cuz the overall rate is {disfmarker}\nPhD C: \nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad H: Statistical .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: right ?\nPostdoc F: Yeah . They 're not double counted .\nPhD G: Other - otherwise you 'd get double counts , here and there .\nGrad H: Yep .\nPhD B: Ah but , yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: \nPhD G: And then it would be harder {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I should also say I did a simplifying , uh {pause} count in that {vocalsound} if A was speaking {pause} B overlapped with A and then A came back again and overlapped with B again , I {disfmarker} I didn't count that as a three - person overlap , I counted that as a two - person overlap , {pause} and it was A being overlapped with by D .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Because the idea was the first speaker {pause} had the floor {pause} and the second person {pause} started speaking and then the f the first person reasserted the floor {pause} kind of thing .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: These are simplifying assumptions , didn't happen very often , there may be like three overlaps affected that way in the whole thing .\nGrad H: I want to go back and listen to minute forty - one .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad H: Cuz i i I find it interesting that there were a large number of overlaps and they were all two - speaker .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: I mean what I thought {disfmarker} what I would have thought in {pause} is that when there were a large number of overlaps , it was because everyone was talking at once , {vocalsound} but uh apparently not .\nPostdoc F: That 's interesting . That 's interesting .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Mmm .\nGrad H: That 's really neat .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , there 's a lot of backchannel , a lot o a lot of {disfmarker}\nGrad H: This is {pause} really interesting data .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , it is .\n",
      "PhD B: I think what 's really interesting though , it is {pause} before d {pause} saying \" yes , meetings have a lot of overlaps \" is to actually find out how many more {pause} we have than two - party .\nPostdoc F: I think so too , I think {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Cuz in two - party conversations , like Switchboard , there 's an awful lot too if you just look at backchannels , if you consider those overlaps ? it 's also ver it 's huge . It 's just that people haven't been {pause} looking at that because they 've been doing single - channel processing for {pause} speech recognition .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm ?\n",
      "PhD B: So , the question is , you know , how many more overlaps {pause} {vocalsound} do you have {pause} of , say the two - person type , by adding more people . to a meeting , and it may be a lot more but i it may {disfmarker} {pause} it may not be .\nProfessor D: Well , but see , I find it interesting even if it wasn't any more ,\nPhD B: So .\n",
      "Professor D: because {pause} since we were dealing with this full duplex sort of thing in Switchboard where it was just all separated out {vocalsound} we just {disfmarker} everything was just nice ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm ?\nProfessor D: so that {disfmarker} so the issue is in {disfmarker} in a situation {pause} where th that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Well , it 's not really {pause} \" nice \" . It depends what you 're doing . So if you were actually {pause} {vocalsound} having , uh {disfmarker} depends what you 're doing , if {disfmarker} Right now we 're do we have individual mikes on the people in this meeting . So the question is , you know {disfmarker} \" are there really more overlaps happening than there would be in a two - person {pause} party \" .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm ?\n",
      "PhD B: And {disfmarker} and there well may be , but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Let {disfmarker} let m let me rephrase what I 'm saying cuz I don't think I 'm getting it across . What {disfmarker} what I {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} I shouldn't use words like \" nice \" because maybe that 's too {disfmarker} i too imprecise . But what I mean is {vocalsound} that , um in Switchboard , {pause} despite the many {disfmarker} many other problems that we have , one problem that we 're not considering is overlap . And what we 're doing now is , {pause} aside from the many other differences in the task , we are considering overlap and one of the reasons that we 're considering it , {pause} you know , one of them not all of them , one of them is {vocalsound} that w uh at least , {pause} you know I 'm very interested in {vocalsound} the scenario in which , uh {pause} both people talking are pretty much equally {pause} audible , {vocalsound} and from a single microphone . And so , {pause} in that case , it does get mixed in , {vocalsound} and it 's pretty hard to jus {pause} to just ignore it , to just do processing on one and not on the other .\n",
      "PhD B: I {disfmarker} I agree that it 's an issue here {pause} but it 's also an issue for Switchboard and if you {pause} think of meetings {pause} being recorded over the telephone , which I think , you know , this whole point of studying meetings isn't just to have people in a room but to also have {pause} meetings over different phone lines .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Maybe far field mike people wouldn't be interested in that but all the dialogue issues still apply ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: so if each of us was calling and having {pause} {vocalsound} a meeting that way {pause} you kn you know like a conference call . And , just the question is , {pause} y you know , in Switchboard {pause} you would think that 's the simplest case of a meeting of more than one person ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: and {pause} {vocalsound} I 'm wondering how much more {pause} overlap {pause} of {pause} the types that {disfmarker} that Jane described happen with more people present . So it may be that having three people {pause} {vocalsound} is very different from having two people or it may not be .\nProfessor D: That 's an important question to ask .\nPhD B: So .\nProfessor D: I think what I 'm {disfmarker} {pause} All I 'm s really saying is that I don't think we were considering that in Switchboard .\n",
      "PhD B: Not you , me . But uh {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but\nProfessor D: Were you ?\nGrad H: Though it wasn't {pause} in the design .\nProfessor D: Were you {disfmarker} were you {disfmarker} were you {disfmarker} were you measuring it ? I mean , w w were {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: There {disfmarker} there 's actually to tell you the truth , the reason why it 's hard to measure is because of so , from the point of view of studying dialogue , I mean , which {pause} Dan Jurafsky and Andreas and I had some projects on , you want to know the sequence of turns .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: So what happens is if you 're talking and I have a backchannel in the middle of your turn , and then you keep going what it looks like in a dialogue model is your turn and then my backchannel ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: even though my backchannel occurred completely inside your turn .\nProfessor D: Yeah ?\nPhD B: So , for things like language modeling or dialogue modeling {pause} {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} We know that that 's wrong in real time .\nProfessor D: Yeah ?\nPhD B: But , because of the acoustic segmentations that were done and the fact that some of the acoustic data in Switchboard were missing , people couldn't study it , but that doesn't mean in the real world that people don't talk that way . So , it 's {disfmarker} um\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , I wasn't saying that . Right ? I was just saying that w now we 're looking at it .\nPhD B: Well , we 've als\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , you {disfmarker} you maybe wanted to look at it before but , for these various technical reasons in terms of how the data was you weren't .\nPhD B: Right . We 're looking at it here .\n",
      "Professor D: So that 's why it 's coming to us as new even though it may well be {pause} you know , if your {disfmarker} if your hypothes The hypothesis you were offering {vocalsound} eh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Um .\n",
      "Professor D: Right ? {disfmarker} if it 's the null poth {comment} hypothesis , and if actually you have as much overlap in a two - person , {vocalsound} we don't know the answer to that . The reason we don't know the answer to is cuz it wasn't studied and it wasn't studied because it wasn't set up . Right ?\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , all I meant is that if you 're asking the question from the point of view of {pause} what 's different about a meeting , studying meetings of , say , more than two people versus {pause} what kinds of questions you could ask with a two - person {pause} meeting .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm ?\nPhD B: It 's important to distinguish {pause} that , you know , this project {pause} is getting a lot of overlap {pause} but other projects were too , but we just couldn't study them . And and so uh\nProfessor D: May have been . May have been . Right ?\n",
      "PhD B: Well , there is a high rate ,\nProfessor D: We do kn we don't know the numbers .\nPhD B: So . It 's {disfmarker} but I don't know how high , in fact\nPhD A: Well , here I have a question .\nPhD B: that would be interesting to know .\nProfessor D: See , I mean , i i le let me t I mean , my point was just if you wanted to say to somebody , \" what have we learned about overlaps here ? \" just never mind comparison with something else ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: what we 've learned about is overlaps in this situation , is that {disfmarker} the first {disfmarker} {pause} the first - order thing I would say is that there 's a lot of them . Right ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: In {disfmarker} in the sense that i if you said if {disfmarker} i i i\nPhD B: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I don't di I agree with that .\n",
      "Professor D: In a way , I guess what I 'm comparing to is more the common sense notion of {vocalsound} how {disfmarker} how much people overlap . Uh {pause} you know the fact that when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when , uh , Adam was looking for a stretch of {disfmarker} of speech before , that didn't have any overlaps , and he w he was having such a hard time and now I look at this and I go , \" well , I can see why he was having such a hard time \" .\nPhD B: Right . That 's also true of Switchboard .\n",
      "Professor D: It 's happening a lot .\nPhD B: It may not be {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I wasn't saying it wasn't .\nPhD B: Right . So it 's just , um\nProfessor D: Right ? I was commenting about this .\nPhD B: OK . All I 'm saying is that from the\n",
      "Professor D: I 'm saying if I {disfmarker} {pause} I 'm saying if I have this complicated thing in front of me , {vocalsound} and we sh which , {pause} you know we 're gonna get much more sophisticated about when we get lots more data , But {disfmarker} Then , if I was gonna describe to somebody what did you learn {pause} right here , about , you know , the {disfmarker} the modest amount of data that was analyzed I 'd say , \" Well , the first - order thing was there was a lot of overlaps \" . In fact {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and it 's not just an overlap {disfmarker} bunch of overlaps {disfmarker} second - order thing is {vocalsound} it 's not just a bunch of overlaps in one particular point , {vocalsound} but that there 's overlaps , uh throughout the thing .\n",
      "Grad H: Right .\nPhD B: Right . No , I {disfmarker} I agree with that .\nProfessor D: And that 's interesting . That 's all .\nPhD B: I 'm just {pause} {vocalsound} saying that it may {disfmarker} {pause} the reason you get overlaps may or may not be due to sort of the number of people in the meeting .\nProfessor D: Oh yeah .\nPhD B: And that 's all .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah , I wasn't making any statement about that .\n",
      "PhD B: And {disfmarker} and it would actually be interesting to find out\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: because some of the data say Switchboard , which isn't exactly the same kind of context , I mean these are two people who don't know each other and so forth , But we should still be able to somehow say what {disfmarker} what is the added contra contribution to sort of overlap time of each additional person , or something like that .\nGrad H: Yep .\nProfessor D: Yeah , that would be good to know ,\nPhD A: What {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: but w we {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: OK , now .\nGrad H: I could certainly see it going either way .\nPostdoc F: Wh - yeah , I {disfmarker} I agree {disfmarker} I agree with Adam .\nPhD B: But yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And the reason is because I think there 's a limit {disfmarker} {pause} there 's an upper bound {pause} on how many you can have , simply {pause} from the standpoint of audibility . When we speak we {disfmarker} we do make a judgment of {pause} \" can {disfmarker} \" you know , as adults .\nPhD B: Right .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: I mean , children don't adjust so well , I mean , if a truck goes rolling past , {vocalsound} adults will well , depending , but mostly , adults will {disfmarker} will {disfmarker} {pause} will hold off to what {disfmarker} {pause} to finish the end of the sentence till the {disfmarker} till the noise is past .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And I think we generally do {vocalsound} monitor things like that , {pause} about {disfmarker} whether we {disfmarker} whether our utterance will be in the clear or not .\nPhD B: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And partly it 's related to rhythmic structure in conversation , so , {vocalsound} you know , you {disfmarker} you t Yeah , this is d also um , people tend to time their {disfmarker} their {disfmarker} {vocalsound} their , um {pause} when they {pause} come into the conversation based on the overall rhythmic , {pause} uh uh , ambient thing .\nPhD A: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc F: So you don't want to be c cross - cutting . And {disfmarker} and , just to finish this , that um That I think that {vocalsound} there may be an upper bound on how many overlaps you can have , simply from the standpoint of audibility and how loud the other people are who are already {pause} in the fray . But I {disfmarker} you know , of certain types . Now if it 's just backchannels , {vocalsound} people {pause} may be doing that {pause} with less {pause} intention of being heard , {pause} just sort of spontaneously doing backchannels , in which case {pause} that {disfmarker} those might {disfmarker} there may be no upper bound on those .\n",
      "PhD G: I {disfmarker} I have a feeling that backchannels , which are the vast majority of overlaps in Switchboard , {pause} uh , don't play as big a role here , because it 's very unnatural I think , to backchannel if {disfmarker} in a multi - audience {disfmarker} you know , in a multi - person {vocalsound} {pause} audience .\nPhD B: If you can see them , actually . It 's interesting , so if you watch people are going like {disfmarker} {comment} {comment} Right {disfmarker} right , like this here ,\n",
      "PhD G: Right .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: but That may not be the case if you couldn't see them .\nProfessor D: u\nPhD G: But {disfmarker} {pause} but , it 's sort of odd if one person 's speaking and everybody 's listening , and it 's unusual to have everybody going \" uh - huh , uh - huh \"\nProfessor D: Actually , I think I 've done it {pause} a fair number of times today .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: But .\nPhD B: There 's a lot of head - nodding , in this\n",
      "Grad H: Um .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad H: Yep , we need to put trackers on it .\nPhD A: In {disfmarker} in the two - person {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nPostdoc F: He could , he could .\n",
      "PhD G: Plus {disfmarker} plus {disfmarker} plus the {disfmarker} Yeah . So {disfmarker} so actually , um That 's in part because the nodding , if you have visual contact , {pause} the nodding has the same function , but on the phone , in Switchboard {vocalsound} you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} that wouldn't work . So {vocalsound} so you need to use the backchannel .\nGrad H: Yeah , you don't have it . Your mike is {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: So , in the two - person conversations , {pause} when there 's backchannel , is there a great deal of {pause} overlap {pause} in the speech ?\nGrad H: That is an earphone , so if you just put it {pause} so it 's on your ear .\nPhD A: or {disfmarker} Cuz my impression is sometimes it happens when there 's a pause ,\nPhD B: Yes .\nGrad H: There you go .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: E for example .\nGrad H: Thank you .\n",
      "PhD A: you know , like you {disfmarker} you get a lot of backchannel , when somebody 's pausing\nPhD B: Yes . Right .\nPostdoc F: She 's doing that .\nPhD B: Sorry , what were you saying ?\n",
      "PhD A: It 's hard to do both , huh ? Um {pause} no , when {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when there 's backchannel , I mean , just {disfmarker} I was just listening , and {disfmarker} and when there 's two people talking and there 's backchannel it seems like , {pause} um the backchannel happens when , you know , the pitch drops and the first person {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Oh .\n",
      "PhD A: and a lot of times , the first person actually stops talking and then there 's a backchannel {pause} and then they start up again , and so I 'm wondering about {disfmarker} h I just wonder how much overlap there is . Is there a lot ?\n",
      "PhD B: I think there 's a lot of the kind that Jose was talking about , where {disfmarker} {pause} I mean , this is called \" precision timing \" in {pause} conversation analysis , where {pause} {vocalsound} they come in overlapping , {pause} but at a point where the {pause} information is mostly {pause} complete . So all you 're missing is some last syllables or something or the last word or some highly predictable words .\nPhD A: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So technically , it 's an overlap .\n",
      "PhD A: But maybe a {disfmarker} just a small overlap ?\nPhD B: But {pause} you know , from information flow point of view it 's not an overlap in {pause} the predictable information .\nPhD E: More , yeah .\nGrad H: It 'd be interesting if we could do prediction .\nPhD A: I was just thinking more in terms of alignment , alignment overlap .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad H: Language model prediction of overlap , that would be really interesting .\nPhD G: So {disfmarker} {pause} so {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Well , that 's exactly , exactly why we wanted to study the precise timing of overlaps ins in uh Switchboard ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD G: Right .\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD B: say , because there 's a lot of that .\n",
      "PhD G: So {disfmarker} so here 's a {disfmarker} here 's a first interesting {pause} labeling task . Uh , to distinguish between , say , backchannels {vocalsound} {pause} precision timing {disfmarker} Sort of {vocalsound} you know , benevolent overlaps , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {pause} and w and {disfmarker} and sort of , um {pause} I don't know , hostile overlaps , where {vocalsound} someone is trying to grab the floor from someone else .\n",
      "Grad H: Mm - hmm . Let 's pick a different word .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: Uh , that {disfmarker} that might be an interesting , um {pause} problem to look at .\nPhD A: Hostile takeovers .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Well , I mean you could do that . I ju I {disfmarker} I think that {pause} in this meeting I really had the feeling that wasn't happening , that {pause} the hostile {disfmarker} hostile type . These were {disfmarker} these were {pause} benevolent types , as people {pause} finishing each other 's sentences , and {pause} stuff .\nPhD G: OK .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD G: Um , I could imagine that as {disfmarker} there 's a fair number of {vocalsound} um cases where , and this is sort of , not {pause} really hostile , but sort of competitive , where {vocalsound} one person is finishing something and {vocalsound} you have , like , two or three people jumping {disfmarker} trying to {disfmarker} {pause} trying to {disfmarker} {pause} trying to , uh grab the next turn .\nGrad H: Trying to get the floor .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: And so it 's not against the person who talks first {pause} because actually we 're all waiting for that person to finish . But they all want to {pause} be next .\nProfessor D: I have a feeling most of these things are {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} {pause} that are not {pause} a benevolent kind are {disfmarker} are {vocalsound} {pause} are , uh {pause} um {pause} {vocalsound} are {disfmarker} are competitive as opposed to real really {disfmarker} really hostile .\nPhD G: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: I wonder what determines who gets the floor ?\nProfessor D: But .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , I agree . I agree .\nPhD A: I mean {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: Well , there are various things , you {disfmarker} you have the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Uh a vote {disfmarker} vote in Florida .\nGrad H: It 's been studied a lot .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Voting for {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Um , o one thing {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wanted to {disfmarker} or you can tell a good joke and then everybody 's laughing and you get a chance to g break in .\nPhD G: Seniority .\nProfessor D: But . But . Um . You know , the other thing I was thinking was that , {pause} um {pause} these {disfmarker} all these interesting questions are , of course , pretty hard to answer with , uh u {pause} you know , a small amount of data .\nGrad H: Ach .\n",
      "Professor D: So , um {pause} I wonder if what you 're saying suggests that we should make a conscious attempt to have , um {vocalsound} a {disfmarker} a fair number of meetings with , uh a smaller number of people . Right ? I mean {vocalsound} we {disfmarker} most of our meetings are {pause} uh , meetings currently with say five , six , seven , eight people Should we {pause} really try to have some two - person meetings , {pause} or some three - person meetings and re record them {vocalsound} just to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to beef up the {disfmarker} the statistics on that ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: That 's a control . Well , {vocalsound} it seems like there are two possibilities there , I mean {pause} i it seems like {vocalsound} if you have just {pause} two people it 's not {pause} really , y like a meeting , w is not as similar as the rest of the {disfmarker} {pause} of the sample . It depends on what you 're after , of course , but {vocalsound} It seems like that would be more a case of the control condition , compared to , uh {pause} an experimental {pause} condition , with more than two .\n",
      "Grad H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Well , Liz was raising the question of {disfmarker} of whether i it 's the number {disfmarker} there 's a relationship between the number of people and the number of overlaps or type of overlaps there ,\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: and , um {vocalsound} If you had two people meeting in this kind of circumstance then you 'd still have the visuals . You wouldn't have that difference {pause} also that you have in the {vocalsound} say , in Switchboard data . Uh\n",
      "Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , I 'm just thinking that 'd be more like a c control condition .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: Well , but from the acoustic point of view , it 's all good .\nPhD E: Is the same .\nProfessor D: Yeah , acoustic is fine , but {disfmarker}\nPhD G: If {disfmarker} if the goal were to just look at overlap you would {disfmarker} you could serve yourself {disfmarker} save yourself a lot of time but not even transcri transcribe the words .\n",
      "PhD B: Well , I was thinking you should be able to do this from the {pause} acoustics , on the close - talking mikes ,\nGrad H: Yep .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Well , that 's {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} that was my {disfmarker} my status report ,\nPhD B: right ?\nPostdoc F: You 've been working on that .\nPhD B: Right , I mean Adam was {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: so {vocalsound} {pause} Once we 're done with this stuff discussing ,\nPhD B: right . I mean , not as well as what {disfmarker} I mean , you wouldn't be able to have any kind of typology , obviously ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: but you 'd get some rough statistics .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So .\n",
      "Professor D: But {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what do you think about that ? Do you think that would be useful ? I 'm just thinking that as an action item of whether we should try to record some two - person meetings or something .\nPhD B: I guess my {disfmarker} my first comment was , um {pause} only that {vocalsound} um we should n not attribute overlaps only to meetings , but maybe that 's obvious , maybe everybody knew that ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: but that {vocalsound} in normal conversation with two people there 's an awful lot of the same kinds of overlap , and that it would be interesting to look at {pause} whether there are these kinds of constraints that Jane mentioned , that {vocalsound} what maybe the additional people add to this competition that happens right after a turn ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: you know , because now you can have five people trying to grab the turn , but pretty quickly there 're {disfmarker} they back off and you go back to this sort of only one person at a time with one person interrupting at a time .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So , I don't know . To answer your question I {pause} it {disfmarker} I don't think it 's crucial to have controls but I think it 's worth recording all the meetings we {pause} can .\nGrad H: Can .\nPhD B: So , um {pause} you know .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , {vocalsound} OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: I {disfmarker} I have an idea .\nPhD B: D I wouldn't not record a two - person meeting just because it only has two people .\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD G: Could we {disfmarker} Could we , um {disfmarker} we have {disfmarker} have in the past and I think continue {disfmarker} will continue to have a fair number of {pause} uh phone conference calls .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD G: And , {vocalsound} uh , {pause} and as a {disfmarker} to , um {vocalsound} as another c {pause} c comparison {pause} condition , {pause} we could um see what {disfmarker} what what happens in terms of overlap , when you don't have visual contact .\nGrad H: Yeah , we talked about this repeatedly .\nPhD G: So , um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Can we actually record ?\nGrad H: It just seems like that 's a very different {pause} thing than what we 're doing .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh Well , we 'll have to set up for it .\nPhD B: I mean {pause} physically {pause} can we record the o the other {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah . Well , we 're not really set up for it {pause} to do that . But .\nPhD G: Or , this is getting a little extravagant , we could put up some kind of blinds or something to {disfmarker} {pause} to remove , uh {pause} visual contact .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad H: Barriers !\n",
      "PhD B: That 's what they did on Map Task , you know , this Map Task corpus ? They ran exactly the same pairs of people with and without visual cues and it 's quite interesting .\nProfessor D: Well , we {disfmarker} we record this meeting so regularly it wouldn't be that {disfmarker} I mean {pause} a little strange .\nGrad H: OK , we can record , but no one can look at each other .\nPhD B: Well , we could just put {pause} b blindfolds on .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD G: Well y no you {disfmarker} f\n",
      "Grad H: Close your eyes .\nPostdoc F: Blindf\nPhD G: Yeah , Yeah .\nGrad H: Turn off the lights .\nPhD B: and we 'd take a picture of everybody sitting here with blindfolds . That would {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Oh , th that was the other thing , weren't we gonna take a picture {pause} at the beginning of each of these meetings ?\nGrad H: Um , what {disfmarker} I had thought we were gonna do is just take pictures of the whiteboards . rather than take pictures of the meeting .\nPostdoc F: Well , linguistic {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: And , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yes .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Linguistic anthropologists would {disfmarker} would suggest it would be useful to also take a picture of the meeting .\nProfessor D: There 's a head nodding here vigorously , yeah .\nPhD A: Why {disfmarker} why do we want to have a picture of the meeting ?\nPhD B: Ee - {pause} you mean , transc {pause} no {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: The {disfmarker} because you get then the spatial relationship of the speakers .\nPhD E: Yeah Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: And that {pause} could be\nPhD G: Well , you could do that by just noting on the enrollment sheet the {disfmarker} {pause} the seat number .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: Seat number , that 's a good idea . I 'll do that .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: I 'll do that on the next set of forms .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: So you 'd number them somehow .\nPhD E: Is possible to get information from the rhythmic {disfmarker} f from the ge , eh {pause} uh , files .\n",
      "Grad H: I finally remembered to put , uh put native language on the newer forms .\nPhD A: We can {disfmarker} can't you figure it out from the mike number ?\nGrad H: No .\nPhD A: OK .\nGrad H: The wireless ones . And even the jacks , I mean , I 'm sitting here and the jack is {pause} over {pause} in front of you .\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD B: But probably from these you could 've {comment} infer it .\nPhD G: Yeah , but It 's {disfmarker} it would be trivial {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: It would be another task .\nPhD B: It would be a research task .\nGrad H: Having {disfmarker} having ground tu truth would be nice , so {pause} seat number would be good .\nPhD A: You know where you could get it ?\nPhD B: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD A: Beam - forming during the digit {pause} uh stuff .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: So I 'm gonna put little labels on all the chairs with the seat number .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad H: That 's a good idea .\n",
      "PhD B: But you have to keep the chairs in the same pla like here .\nPhD G: Not the chairs . The chairs are {disfmarker} Chairs are movable .\nGrad H: But , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Put them {disfmarker} {pause} Like , {pause} put them on the table where they {disfmarker}\nPhD E: The chair {comment} Yeah .\nGrad H: Yep .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad H: Yep .\n",
      "Postdoc F: But you know , they {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} s the linguistic anthropologists would say it would be good to have a digital picture anyway ,\nPhD A: Just remembered a joke .\nPostdoc F: because you get {pause} a sense also of posture . Posture , and we could like , {pause} you know , {pause} block out the person 's face or whatever\nPhD G: What people were wearing .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD B: The fashion statement .\nPostdoc F: but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but , you know , these are important cues ,\n",
      "PhD G: Oh , Andreas was {disfmarker}\nPhD A: How big their heads are .\nPostdoc F: I mean the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} how a person is sitting {pause} is {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: But if you just f But from one picture , I don't know that you really get that .\nPhD G: Yeah . Andreas was wearing that same old sweater again .\nProfessor D: Right ? You 'd want a video for that , I think .\n",
      "Postdoc F: It 'd be better than nothing , is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} i Just from a single picture I think you can tell some aspects .\nPhD E: A video , yeah .\nProfessor D: Think so ?\nPostdoc F: I mean I {disfmarker} I could tell you I mean , if I if I 'm in certain meetings I notice that there are certain people who really do {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker} The body language is very uh {disfmarker} is very interesting in terms of the dominance aspect .\nPhD G: And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Hmm .\nPhD G: Yeah . And {disfmarker} and Morgan had that funny hair again .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . {comment} Well , I mean you black out the {disfmarker} that part .\nGrad H: Hmm .\nPostdoc F: But it 's just , you know , the {disfmarker} the body\nPhD A: He agreed .\nPostdoc F: you know ?\nGrad H: Of course , the {disfmarker} where we sit at the table , I find is very interesting , that we do tend to {pause} cong {pause} to gravitate to the same place each time .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah .\nGrad H: and it 's somewhat coincidental . I 'm sitting here so that I can run into the room if the hardware starts , you know , catching fire or something .\nPhD G: Oh , no , you {disfmarker} you just like to be in charge , that 's why you 're sitting {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I just want to be at the head of the table .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad H: Take control .\nProfessor D: Speaking of taking control , you said you had some research to talk about .\nPostdoc F: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , I 've been playing with , um uh , using the close - talking mike to do {disfmarker} to try to figure out who 's speaking . So my first attempt was just using thresholding and filtering , that we talked about {disfmarker} about two weeks ago , and so I played with that a little bit , and {vocalsound} it works O K , {pause} except that {pause} it 's very sensitive to your choice of {vocalsound} your filter width and your {vocalsound} threshold . So if you fiddle around with it a little bit and you get good numbers you can actually do a pretty good job of segmenting when someone 's talking and when they 're not . But if you try to use the same paramenters on another speaker , it doesn't work anymore , even if you normalize it based on the absolute loudness .\n",
      "PhD B: But does it work for that one speaker throughout the whole meeting ?\nGrad H: It does work for the one speaker throughout the whole meeting . Um Pretty well .\nPhD A: How did you do it Adam ?\nGrad H: Pretty well . How did I do it ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad H: What do you mean ?\nPhD A: I mean , wh what was the {disfmarker}\nGrad H: The algorithm was , uh take o every frame that 's over the threshold , and then median - filter it , {vocalsound} and then look for runs .\nPhD A: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad H: So there was a minimum run length ,\nPhD A: Every frame that 's over what threshold ?\nGrad H: so that {disfmarker} A threshold that you pick .\nPhD A: In terms of energy ? Ah !\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD A: OK .\nPostdoc F: Say that again ? Frame over fres threshold .\n",
      "Grad H: So you take a {disfmarker} each frame , and you compute the energy and if it 's over the threshold you set it to one , and if it 's under the threshold you set it to zero , {vocalsound} so now you have a bit stream {pause} of zeros and ones .\nPostdoc F: Hmm . OK .\n",
      "Grad H: And then I median - filtered that {vocalsound} using , um {pause} a fairly long {pause} filter length . Uh {pause} well , actually I guess depends on what you mean by long , you know , tenth of a second sorts of numbers . Um and that 's to average out you know , pitch , you know , the pitch contours , and things like that . And then , uh looked for long runs .\nPostdoc F: OK\n",
      "Grad H: And that works O K , if you fil if you tune the filter parameters , if you tune {vocalsound} how long your median filter is and how high you 're looking for your thresholds .\nPhD A: Did you ever try running the filter before you pick a threshold ?\n",
      "Grad H: No . I certainly could though . But this was just I had the program mostly written already so it was easy to do . OK and then the other thing I did , was I took {vocalsound} Javier 's speaker - change detector {disfmarker} acoustic - change detector , and I implemented that with the close - talking mikes , and {pause} unfortunately that 's not working real well , and it looks like it 's {disfmarker} the problem is {disfmarker} he does it in two passes , the first pass {vocalsound} is to find candidate places to do a break . And he does that using a neural net doing broad phone classification and he has the {vocalsound} the , uh {pause} one of the phone classes is silence . And so the possible breaks are where silence starts and ends . And then he has a second pass which is a modeling {disfmarker} a Gaussian mixture model . Um looking for {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} whether it improves or {disfmarker} or degrades to split at one of those particular places . And what looks like it 's happening is that the {disfmarker} even on the close - talking mike the broad phone class classifier 's doing a really bad job .\n",
      "PhD A: Who was it trained on ?\nGrad H: Uh , I have no idea .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nGrad H: I don't remember . Does an do you remember , Morgan , was it Broadcast News ?\nProfessor D: I think so , yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: Um {pause} So , at any rate , my next attempt , {pause} which I 'm in the midst of and haven't quite finished yet was actually using the {vocalsound} uh , thresholding as the way of generating the candidates . Because one of the things that definitely happens is if you put the threshold low {vocalsound} you get lots of breaks . All of which are definitely acoustic events . They 're definitely {vocalsound} someone talking . But , like , it could be someone who isn't the person here , but the person over there or it can be the person breathing . And then feeding that into the acoustic change detector . And so I think that might work . But , I haven't gotten very far on that . But all of this is close - talking mike , so it 's , uh {pause} just {disfmarker} just trying to get some ground truth .\n",
      "PhD E: Only with eh uh , but eh I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think , eh when {disfmarker} when , y I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I saw the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the speech from PDA and , eh {pause} close {pause} {vocalsound} talker . I {disfmarker} I think the there is a {disfmarker} a great difference in the {disfmarker} in the signal .\nGrad H: Oh , absolutely .\n",
      "PhD E: Um but eh I {disfmarker} but eh I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean that eh eh {pause} in the {disfmarker} in the mixed file {vocalsound} you can find , uh {pause} zone with , eh {pause} great different , eh {pause} level of energy .\nGrad H: So {pause} s my intention for this is {disfmarker} is as an aide for ground truth . not {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Um {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I think for , eh {pause} algorithm based on energy , {pause} eh , that um h mmm , {disfmarker} more or less , eh , like eh {pause} eh , mmm , first sound energy detector .\nGrad H: Say it again ?\n",
      "PhD E: eh nnn . When y you the detect the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the first at {disfmarker} at the end of {disfmarker} of the {vocalsound} detector of , ehm princ um . What is the {disfmarker} the name in English ? the {disfmarker} the , mmm , {pause} {vocalsound} the de detector of , ehm of a word in the {disfmarker} in the s in {disfmarker} an isolated word in {disfmarker} in the background That , uh\n",
      "Grad H: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not sure what you 're saying , can you try {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I mean that when {disfmarker} when you use , eh {pause} eh {pause} any\nPhD A: I think he 's saying the onset detector .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: Onset detector , OK .\n",
      "PhD E: I {disfmarker} I think it 's probably to work well eh , because , eh {pause} you have eh , in the mixed files a great level of energy . eh {pause} and great difference between the sp speaker . And probably is not so easy when you use the {disfmarker} the PDA , eh that {disfmarker} Because the signal is , eh {pause} the {disfmarker} in the e energy level .\nGrad H: Right .\n",
      "PhD E: in {disfmarker} in that , eh {pause} eh {pause} speech file {vocalsound} is , eh {pause} more similar . between the different eh , speaker , {vocalsound} um {pause} I {disfmarker} I think is {disfmarker} eh , it will {pause} i is my opinion .\nGrad H: Right . But different speakers .\nPhD E: It will be , eh {pause} more difficult to {disfmarker} to detect bass - tone energy . the {disfmarker} the change . I think that , um\n",
      "Grad H: Ah , in the clo in the P D A , you mean ?\nPhD E: In the PDA .\nGrad H: Absolutely .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad H: Yeah , no question . It 'll be much harder .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Much harder .\n",
      "PhD E: And the {disfmarker} the another question , that when I review the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the work of Javier . I think the , nnn , the , nnn , {pause} that the idea of using a {pause} neural network {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to get a broad class of phonetic , eh {pause} from , eh uh a candidate from the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the speech signal . If you have , eh {vocalsound} uh , I 'm considering , only because Javier , eh {pause} only consider , eh {pause} like candidate , the , nnn , eh {pause} the silence , because it is the {disfmarker} the only model , eh {disfmarker} eh , he used that , eh {pause} {vocalsound} eh {pause} nnn , to detect the {disfmarker} the possibility of a {disfmarker} a change between the {disfmarker} between the speaker ,\n",
      "Grad H: Right .\nPhD E: Um {pause} another {disfmarker} another research thing , different groups , eh {pause} working , eh {pause} on Broadcast News {vocalsound} prefer to , eh {pause} to consider hypothesis eh {pause} between each phoneme .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm . Yeah , when a {pause} phone changes .\n",
      "PhD E: Because , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's more realistic that , uh {pause} only consider the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the silence between the speaker . Eh {pause} there {disfmarker} there exists eh {pause} silence between {disfmarker} between , eh {pause} a speaker . is {disfmarker} is , eh {pause} eh {pause} acoustic , eh {pause} event , important to {disfmarker} to consider .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: I {disfmarker} I found that the , eh {pause} silence in {disfmarker} in many occasions in the {disfmarker} in the speech file , but , eh {pause} when you have , eh {pause} eh , two speakers together without enough silence between {disfmarker} between them , eh {pause} {vocalsound} I think eh {pause} is better to use the acoustic change detector basically and I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I IX or , mmm , BIC criterion for consider all the frames in my opinion .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Yeah , the {disfmarker} you know , the reason that he , uh {pause} just used silence {vocalsound} was not because he thought it was better , it was {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} it was the place he was starting .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: Yep .\nProfessor D: So , he was trying to get something going ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: and , uh e e you know , as {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} {vocalsound} as is in your case , if you 're here for only a modest number of months you try to pick a realistic goal ,\nPhD E: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . Yeah . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .\nGrad H: Do something .\nProfessor D: But his {disfmarker} his goal was always to proceed from there to then allow broad category change also .\n",
      "PhD E: Uh - huh . But , eh {pause} do {disfmarker} do you think that if you consider all the frames to apply {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the , eh {pause} the BIC criterion to detect the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the different acoustic change , {vocalsound} eh {pause} between speaker , without , uh {pause} with , uh {pause} silence or {vocalsound} with overlapping , uh , I think like {disfmarker} like , eh {pause} eh a general , eh {pause} eh {pause} way of process the {disfmarker} the acoustic change .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: In a first step , I mean .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: An - and then , eh {pause} {vocalsound} eh {pause} without considering the you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you , um {pause} you can consider the energy {vocalsound} like a another parameter in the {disfmarker} in the feature vector , eh .\nGrad H: Right . Absolutely .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: This {disfmarker} this is the idea . And if , if you do that , eh {pause} eh , with a BIC uh criterion for example , or with another kind of , eh {pause} of distance in a first step , {vocalsound} and then you , eh {pause} you get the , eh {pause} the hypothesis to the {disfmarker} this change acoustic , {vocalsound} eh {pause} {vocalsound} to po process\nGrad H: Right .\n",
      "PhD E: Because , eh {pause} eh , probably you {disfmarker} you can find the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} eh {pause} a small gap of silence between speaker {vocalsound} with eh {pause} eh {pause} a ga mmm , {pause} {vocalsound} small duration Less than , {vocalsound} eh {pause} two hundred milliseconds for example\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: and apply another {disfmarker} another algorithm , another approach like , eh {pause} eh {pause} detector of ene , eh detector of bass - tone energy to {disfmarker} to consider that , eh {vocalsound} that , eh {pause} zone . of s a small silence between speaker , or {vocalsound} another algorithm to {disfmarker} to process , {vocalsound} eh {pause} the {disfmarker} the segment between marks eh {pause} founded by the {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} the BIC criterion and applied for {disfmarker} for each frame .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: I think is , eh {pause} nnn , it will be a an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} a more general approach {vocalsound} the {pause} if we compare {disfmarker} with use , eh {pause} a neural net or another , eh {pause} speech recognizer with a broad class or {disfmarker} or narrow class , because , in my opinion eh {pause} it 's in my opinion , {vocalsound} eh if you {disfmarker} if you change the condition of the speech , I mean , if you adjust to your algorithm with a mixed speech file and to , eh {vocalsound} to , eh {pause} {vocalsound} adapt the neural net , eh {pause} used by Javier with a mixed file .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: uh With a m mixed file ,\nGrad H: With the what file ?\nPhD A: \" Mixed \" .\nPhD E: with a {disfmarker} the mix , mix .\nPostdoc F: \" Mixed . \"\nGrad H: \" Mixed ? \"\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Sorry . And {pause} and then you {disfmarker} you , eh you try to {disfmarker} to apply that , eh , eh , eh , speech recognizer to that signal , to the PDA , eh {pause} speech file , {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I think you will have problems , because the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {pause} condition {vocalsound} you {disfmarker} you will need t t I {disfmarker} I suppose that you will need to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to retrain it .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Oh , absolutely . This is {disfmarker} this is not what I was suggesting to do .\nProfessor D: u {vocalsound} Look , I {disfmarker} I think this is a {disfmarker} One {disfmarker} once {disfmarker} It 's a {disfmarker} I used to work , like , on voiced {disfmarker} on voice silence detection , you know , and this is this {pause} kind of thing .\nPhD E: Really ? Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Um {pause} If you {vocalsound} have somebody who has some experience with this sort of thing , and they work on it for a couple months , {vocalsound} they can come up with something that gets most of the cases fairly easily . Then you say , \" OK , I don't just wanna get most of the cases I want it to be really accurate . \" Then it gets really hard no matter what you do . So , the p the problem is is that if you say , \" Well I {disfmarker} I have these other data over here , {vocalsound} that I learn things from , either explicit training of neural nets or of Gaussian mixture models or whatever . \"\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Uh {pause} Suppose you don't use any of those things . You say you have looked for acoustic change . Well , what does that mean ? That {disfmarker} that means you set some thresholds somewhere or something ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: right ? and {disfmarker} and so {vocalsound} where do you get your thresholds from ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: From something that you looked at . So {vocalsound} you always have this problem , you 're going to new data um {pause} H how are you going to adapt whatever you can very quickly learn about the new data ? {vocalsound} Uh , if it 's gonna be different from old data that you have ? And I think that 's a problem {pause} with this .\n",
      "Grad H: Well , also what I 'm doing right now is not intended to be an acoustic change detector for far - field mikes . What I 'm doing {vocalsound} is trying to use the close - talking mike {vocalsound} and just use {disfmarker} {pause} Can - and just generate candidate and just {pause} try to get a first pass at something that sort of works .\nPhD E: Yeah !\nPhD A: You have candidates .\nPhD G: Actually {disfmarker} actually {disfmarker} actually {disfmarker}\nPhD E: the candidate .\n",
      "PhD G: I {disfmarker}\nPhD A: to make marking easier . Yeah .\nPhD G: Or {disfmarker}\nGrad H: and I haven't spent a lot of time on it and I 'm not intending to spend a lot of time on it .\nPhD G: OK . I {disfmarker} um , I , unfortunately , have to run ,\nGrad H: So .\n",
      "PhD G: but , um {pause} I can imagine {pause} uh building {pause} a {pause} um {pause} model of speaker change {pause} detection {pause} that {vocalsound} takes into account {pause} both the far - field and the {vocalsound} uh {pause} actually , not just the close - talking mike for that speaker , but actually for all of th {pause} for all of the speakers .\nGrad H: Yep . Everyone else .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: um {pause} If you model the {disfmarker} {pause} the {pause} effect that {pause} me speaking has on {pause} your {pause} microphone and everybody else 's microphone , as well as on that , {vocalsound} and you build , um {disfmarker} basically I think you 'd {disfmarker} you would {pause} build a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} an HMM that has as a state space all of the possible speaker combinations\nGrad H: All the {disfmarker} Yep .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: and , um {vocalsound} you can control {disfmarker}\nGrad H: It 's a little big .\nPhD G: It 's not that big actually , um\nGrad H: Two to the N . Two to the number of people in the meeting .\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker} Actually , Andreas may maybe {disfmarker} maybe just something simpler but {disfmarker} but along the lines of what you 're saying ,\nGrad H: Anyway .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: I was just realizing , I used to know this guy who used to build , uh {vocalsound} um , mike mixers {disfmarker} automatic mike mixers where , you know , t in order to able to turn up the gain , you know , uh {vocalsound} as much as you can , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you lower the gain on {disfmarker} on the mikes of people who aren't talking ,\nPhD G: Mmm .\nPhD E: Yeah {comment} Yeah .\nPhD G: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: right ? And then he had some sort of {vocalsound} reasonable way of doing that ,\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: but {vocalsound} uh , what if you were just looking at very simple measures like energy measures but you don't just compare it to some threshold {pause} overall but you compare it to the {vocalsound} energy in the other microphones .\nGrad H: I was thinking about doing that originally to find out {pause} who 's the loudest , and that person is certainly talking .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: But I also wanted to find threshold {disfmarker} uh , excuse me , mol overlap .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad H: So , not just {disfmarker} just the loudest .\nPhD E: But , eh\nPostdoc F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: I {disfmarker} I Sorry . I {disfmarker} I have found that when {disfmarker} when I I analyzed the {disfmarker} the speech files from the , {pause} eh {pause} mike , eh {pause} from the eh close eh {pause} microphone , eh {pause} I found zones with a {disfmarker} a different level of energy .\nPhD G: Sorry , I have to go .\nGrad H: OK . Could you fill that out anyway ? Just , {pause} put your name in . Are y you want me to do it ? I 'll do it .\n",
      "PhD A: But he 's not gonna even read that . Oh .\nGrad H: I know .\n",
      "PhD E: including overlap zone . including . because , eh {pause} eh {pause} depend on the position of the {disfmarker} of the microph of the each speaker {vocalsound} to , eh , to get more o or less energy {vocalsound} i in the mixed sign in the signal . and then , {vocalsound} if you consider energy to {disfmarker} to detect overlapping in {disfmarker} in , uh , and you process the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the speech file from the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the mixed signals . The mixed signals , eh . I {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's difficult , um {vocalsound} {pause} only to en with energy to {disfmarker} to consider that in that zone We have eh , eh , overlapping zone Eh , if you process only the the energy of the , of each frame .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , it 's probably harder , but I {disfmarker} I think what I was s nnn noting just when he {disfmarker} when Andreas raised that , was that there 's other information to be gained from looking at all {vocalsound} of the microphones and you may not need to look at very sophisticated things ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: because if there 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if most of the overlaps {disfmarker} you know , this doesn't cover , say , three , but if most of the overlaps , say , are two , {vocalsound} if the distribution looks like there 's a couple high ones and {disfmarker} and {pause} the rest of them are low ,\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad H: And everyone else is low , yeah .\nProfessor D: you know , what I mean ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: there 's some information there about their distribution even with very simple measures .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Uh , by the way , I had an idea with {disfmarker} while I was watching Chuck nodding at a lot of these things , is that we can all wear little bells on our heads , {vocalsound} so that {vocalsound} then you 'd know that {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: Ding , ding , ding , ding .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: \" Ding \" . That 's cute !\n",
      "PhD B: I think that 'd be really interesting too , with blindfolds . Then {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Nodding with blindfolds ,\nPhD B: Yeah . The question is , {pause} like {pause} whether {disfmarker}\nGrad H: \" what are you nodding about ? \"\nPhD B: Well , trying with and {disfmarker} {pause} with and without , yeah .\nGrad H: \" Sorry , I 'm just {disfmarker} I 'm just going to sleep . \"\nPhD B: But then there 's just one @ @ , like .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Actually , I saw a uh {disfmarker} a woman at the bus stop the other day who , um , was talking on her cell phone {vocalsound} speaking Japanese , and was bowing . you know , profusely .\nPhD B: Oh , yeah , that 's really common .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah {comment} Yeah .\nPhD A: Just , kept {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Ah .\nProfessor D: Wow .\n",
      "PhD B: It 's very difficult if you try {disfmarker} while you 're trying , say , to convince somebody on the phone it 's difficult not to move your hands . Not {disfmarker} You know , if you watch people they 'll actually do these things .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm ?\nPhD B: So . I still think we should try a {disfmarker} a meeting or two with the blindfolds , at least of this meeting that we have lots of recordings of\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Um , maybe for part of the meeting , we don't have to do it the whole meeting .\nProfessor D: Yeah , I think th I think it 's a great idea .\nPhD B: That could be fun . It 'll be too hard to make barriers , I was thinking because they have to go all the way\nProfessor D: W Yeah .\nPhD B: you know , I can see Chuck even if you put a barrier here .\nGrad H: Well , we could just turn out the lights .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Actually {pause} well also {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can say I made barr barriers for {disfmarker} so that {disfmarker} the {pause} stuff I was doing with Collin wha {pause} which {pause} just used , um {pause} this {pause} kind of foam board .\nPhD B: Y Yeah ?\nPostdoc F: R really inexpensive . You can {disfmarker} you can masking tape it together , these are {pause} you know , pretty l large partitions .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: But then we also have these mikes , is the other thing I was thinking , so we need a barrier that doesn't disturb {pause} the sound ,\nPostdoc F: It 's true , it would disturb the , um {pause} the {disfmarker} the long - range {disfmarker}\nGrad H: The acoustics .\nPhD B: um\nProfessor D: Blindfolds would be good .\nPostdoc F: it would {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I think , blindfolds .\n",
      "PhD B: I mean , it sounds weird but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} {pause} you know it 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} it 's cheap and , uh Be interesting to have the camera going .\nProfessor D: Probably we should wait until after Adam 's set up the mikes , But .\nPostdoc F: OK . I think we 're going to have to work on the , uh {disfmarker} {pause} on the human subjects {vocalsound} form .\nPhD A: I 'll be peeking .\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , that 's right , we didn't tell them we would be blindfolding .\nProfessor D: That 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: \" Do you mind being blindfolded while you 're interviewed ? \"\n",
      "Professor D: that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's the one that we videotape . So . Um , I {disfmarker} I wanna move this along . Uh {pause} I did have this other agenda item which is , uh @ @ {disfmarker} it 's uh a list which I sent to uh {disfmarker} a couple folks , but um I wanted to get broader input on it , So this is the things that I think we did {vocalsound} in the last three months obviously not everything we did but {disfmarker} but sort of highlights that I can {disfmarker} {pause} can {pause} tell {pause} s some outside person , you know , what {disfmarker} what were you {pause} actually working on . Um {pause} in no particular order {vocalsound} uh , one , uh , ten more hours of meeting r meetings recorded , something like that , you know from {disfmarker} from , uh {pause} three months ago . Uh {pause} XML formats and other transcription aspects sorted out {pause} and uh {pause} sent to IBM . Um , pilot data put together and sent to IBM for transcription , uh {pause} next batch of recorded data put together on the CD - ROMs for shipment to IBM ,\n",
      "Grad H: Hasn't been sent yet , but {disfmarker} It 's getting ready .\n",
      "Professor D: But yeah , that 's why I phrased it that way , yeah OK . Um {pause} human subjects approval on campus , uh {pause} and release forms worked out so the meeting participants have a chance to request audio pixelization of selected parts of the spee their speech . Um {vocalsound} audio pixelization software written and tested . Um {pause} {vocalsound} preliminary analysis of overlaps in the pilot data we have transcribed , and exploratory analysis of long - distance inferences for topic coherence , that was {disfmarker} I was {disfmarker} {pause} wasn't {pause} sure if those were the right way {disfmarker} {pause} that was the right way to describe that because of that little exercise that {disfmarker} that you {comment} and {disfmarker} and Lokendra did .\n",
      "Postdoc F: What was that called ?\nProfessor D: I {disfmarker} well , I I 'm probably saying this wrong , but what I said was exploratory analysis of long - distance inferences {vocalsound} for topic coherence .\nPostdoc F: The , uh {pause} say again ?\n",
      "Professor D: Something like that . Um {pause} so , uh {pause} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {pause} a lot of that was from , you know , what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what you two were doing so I {disfmarker} I sent it to you , and you know , please mail me , you know , the corrections or suggestions for changing\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: I {disfmarker} I don't want to make this twice it 's length but {disfmarker} {vocalsound} but you know , just im improve it . Um Is there anything anybody {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I {disfmarker} I did a bunch of stuff for supporting of digits .\nProfessor D: \" Bunch of stuff for s \" OK , maybe {disfmarker} maybe send me a sentence that 's a little thought through about that .\nGrad H: So , {pause} OK , I 'll send you a sentence that doesn't just say \" a bunch of \" ?\n",
      "Professor D: \" Bunch of stuff \" , yeah , \" stuff \" is probably bad too ,\nGrad H: Yep . \" Stuff \" {pause} is not very technical .\nProfessor D: Yeah , well .\nGrad H: I 'll try to {pause} phrase it in passive voice .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah , yeah ,\nPhD A: Technical stuff .\n",
      "Professor D: \" range of things \" , yeah . Um {pause} and {disfmarker} and you know , I sort of threw in what you did with what Jane did on {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} under the , uh {pause} uh {vocalsound} preliminary analysis of overlaps . Uh {vocalsound} uh {vocalsound} Thilo , can you tell us about all the work you 've done on this project in the last , uh {pause} last three months ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: So {disfmarker} what is {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} Um . Not really .\nProfessor D: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It 's too complicated .\nPhD C: Um , {pause} I didn't get it . Wh - what is \" audio pixelization \" ?\nProfessor D: Uh , audio pix wh he did it , so why don't you explain it quickly ?\n",
      "Grad H: It 's just , uh {pause} beeping out parts that you don't want included in the meeting so , you know you can say things like , \" Well , this should probably not be on the record , but beep \"\nPhD C: OK , OK . I got that .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we spent a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a fair amount of time early on just talk dealing with this issue about op w e e {vocalsound} we realized , \" well , people are speaking in an impromptu way and they might say something that would embarrass them or others later \" , and , how do you get around that\nPhD C:  OK .\n",
      "Professor D: so in the consent form it says , well you {disfmarker} we will look at the transcripts later and if there 's something that you 're {pause} unhappy with , yeah .\nPhD C: OK , and you can say {disfmarker} OK .\nProfessor D: But you don't want to just totally excise it because um uh , well you have to be careful about excising it , how {disfmarker} how you excise it keeping the timing right and so forth so that at the moment tho th the idea we 're running with is {disfmarker} is h putting the beep over it .\n",
      "PhD C: OK .\nGrad H: Yeah , you can either beep or it can be silence . I {disfmarker} I couldn't decide . which was the right way to do it .\nPhD E: Ah , yeah .\nGrad H: Beep is good auditorily ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad H: if someone is listening to it , there 's no mistake that it 's been beeped out ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad H: but for software it 's probably better for it to be silence .\n",
      "PhD A: No , no . You can {disfmarker} you know , you could make a m as long as you keep using the same beep , people could make a model of that beep ,\nPostdoc F: Hmm .\nPhD A: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc F: I like that idea .\nGrad H: Yep . And I use {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh {pause} it 's an A below middle C beep ,\nPhD B: I think the beep is a really good idea .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: It 's very clear . Then you don't think it 's a long pause .\nPhD B: Also {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah , it 's more obvious that there was something there than if there 's just silence .\nGrad H: so\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , that {disfmarker} I mean , he 's {disfmarker} he 's removing the old {pause} thing\nPhD E: Yeah\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Yep .\n",
      "PhD A: Yea - right . Right . But I mean if you just replaced it with silence , {pause} it 's not clear whether that 's really silence or {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Yeah , it 's not {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: Yeah , I agree .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad H: Yep .\nPostdoc F: One {disfmarker} one question . Do you do it on all channels ?\nGrad H: Of course .\nPostdoc F: Interesting . I like that .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc F: Yeah , I like that .\nGrad H: Yeah you have to do it on all channels because it 's , uh {pause} audible .\nPostdoc F: Very clear . Very clear .\nGrad H: Uh , it 's {disfmarker} it 's potentially audible , you could potentially recover it .\nProfessor D: Ke - keep a back door .\nPostdoc F: Well , the other thing that {disfmarker} you know , I mean the {disfmarker} the alternative might be to s\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah . Well , I {disfmarker} I haven't thrown away any of the meetings that I beeped . Actually yours is the only one that I beeped and then , uh {pause} the ar DARPA meeting .\nPhD B: Notice how quiet I am .\nGrad H: Sorry , and then the DARPA meeting I just excised completely ,\nPostdoc F: Yeah .\nGrad H: so it 's in a private directory .\nPhD B: You have some people who only have beeps as their speech in these meetings .\nPostdoc F: That 's great . Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: They 're easy to find , then .\nProfessor D: Alright , so , uh {pause} I think we should , uh {pause} uh , go on to the digits ?\nPostdoc F: I have one concept a t I {disfmarker} I want to say , which is that I think it 's nice that you 're preserving the time relations ,\nGrad H: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc F: s so you 're {disfmarker} you 're not just cutting {disfmarker} you 're not doing scissor snips . You 're {disfmarker} you 're keeping the , uh {pause} the time duration of a {disfmarker} de - deleted {disfmarker} deleted part .\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD B: Yeah , definitely .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc F: OK , good , digits .\nGrad H: Yeah , since we wanna {pause} possibly synchronize these things as well . Oh , I should have done that .\nPostdoc F: It 's great .\n",
      "Grad H: Shoot . Oh well .\nPhD B: So I guess if there 's an overlap , {pause} like , if I 'm saying something that 's {pause} bleepable and somebody else overlaps during it they also get bleeped , too ?\nProfessor D: Yeah . Oh\nGrad H: You 'll lose it . There 's no way around that .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Um {pause} I d I did {disfmarker} before we do the digits , I did also wanna remind people , uh {pause} {vocalsound} please do send me , you know , uh thoughts for an agenda ,\n",
      "Grad H: Agenda ?\nProfessor D: yeah that {disfmarker} that would be that 'd be good .\nPostdoc F: Good .\nProfessor D: Eh So that , uh , people 's ideas don't get\nGrad H: Thursday crept up on me this week .\nProfessor D: yeah , well it does creep up , doesn't it ?\nPhD B: And , I wanted to say , I think this is really interesting {pause} analysis .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPostdoc F: Thank you .\nGrad H: It 's cool stuff , definitely .\n",
      "PhD B: I meant to say that before I started off on the {pause} Switchboard stuff .\nPostdoc F: Thank you .\nGrad H: I was gonna say \" can you do that for the other meetings ,\nPhD B: It 's neat .\nGrad H: can you do it for them ? \"\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad H: And , no actually , you can't .\nPhD A: Actually {disfmarker} actually I {disfmarker} I thought that 's what you were giving us was another meeting and I was like , \" Oh , OK ! \"\nPhD B: Does it take {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc F: Thank you . Yeah .\nGrad H: \" Ooo , cool ! \"\nPostdoc F: Aw , thanks .\nPhD B: How long does it {pause} take , just briefly , like {pause} t to {disfmarker} {pause} OK . {pause} to label the ,\nPostdoc F: No . I have the script now , so , I mean , it can work off the , uh {pause} other thing ,\nGrad H: It 's {disfmarker} As soon as we get labels , yep .\nPhD B: OK .\nPhD A: But it has to be hand - labeled first ?\n",
      "Postdoc F: but {disfmarker} Uh , well , yeah . Because , uh {pause} well , I mean {pause} once his {disfmarker} his algorithm is up and running then we can do it that way .\nGrad H: If it works well enough . Right now it 's not . Not quite to the point where it works .\nPhD B: OK .\nPostdoc F: But {pause} I {disfmarker} I just worked off of my\nPhD B: It 's really neat .\nProfessor D: OK , go ahead\n",
      "Postdoc F: Thanks . Appreciate that . I think {disfmarker} what I {disfmarker} what this has , uh , caused me {disfmarker} so this discussion caused me to wanna subdivide these further . I 'm gonna take a look at the , uh {pause} backchannels , how much we have anal I hope to have that for next time .\nPhD A: That 'd be interesting .\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , my {disfmarker} my algorithm worked great actually on these , but when you wear it like that or with the uh , lapel {pause} or if you have it very far from your face , that 's when it starts {pause} failing .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Oh .\nPhD B: Well , I can wear it , I mean if you {disfmarker}\nGrad H: It doesn't matter .\nPhD B: OK .\nGrad H: I mean , we want it to work ,\nPhD A: It 's too late now .\n",
      "Grad H: right ? I {disfmarker} I don't want {pause} to change the way we do the meeting .\nPhD B: I feel like this troublemaker .\nGrad H: It 's uh {disfmarker} {pause} so , it was just a comment on the software , not a comment on {vocalsound} prescriptions on how you wear microphones .\nPhD B: OK .\nProfessor D: OK , that 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} let 's do digits .\nGrad H: Get the bolts , \" whh whh \"\n"
    ],
    "length": 25250,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 70,
    "question": "What was the meeting about?",
    "answer": "The revised semantic specification and construction formalism are more stable than the previous versions. Semantic constraints also come into play. The semantic specification, on the other hand, is split into three levels: \"scenario\" is a list of schemas and bindings between them, which describes the current event in terms of Source-Path-Goal, Container, etc.; \"referent\" is about the entities in the discourse and includes grammatical information and pointers to the ontology; \"discourse segment\" comprises utterance-specific things. Apart from the presentation, JavaBayes can now run through the modified web page of the project.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad B: what things to talk about .\nGrad F: I 'm {disfmarker} What ? Really ? Oh , that 's horrible ! Disincentive !\nGrad A: OK , we 're recording .\nGrad F: Hello ?\nGrad B: Check check {pause} check check .\nGrad D: Uh , yeah .\nGrad F: Hello ? Which am I ?\nProfessor C: Oh right .\nGrad B: Alright . Good .\n",
      "Grad F: Channel fi OK . OK . Are you doing something ? OK , then I guess I 'm doing something . So , um , So basically the result of m much thinking since the last time we met , um , but not as much writing , um , is a sheet that I have a lot of , like , thoughts and justification of comments on but I 'll just pass out as is right now . So , um , here . If you could pass this around ? And there 's two things . And so one on one side is {disfmarker} on one side is a sort of the revised sort of updated semantic specification .\n",
      "Grad D: Um {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} wait .\nGrad F: And the other side is , um , sort of a revised construction formalism .\nGrad E: This is just one sheet , right ?\nGrad D: Ah ! Just one sheet .\nGrad F: It 's just one sheet .\nGrad D: OK .\nGrad F: It 's just a {disfmarker} Nothing else .\nGrad D: Front , back .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , Enough to go around ? OK . And in some ways it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's very similar to {disfmarker} There are very few changes in some ways from what we 've , um , uh , b done before but I don't think everyone here has seen all of this . So , uh , I 'm not sure where to begin . Um , as usual the disclaimers are there are {disfmarker} all these things are {disfmarker} it 's only slightly more stable than it was before .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: And , um , after a little bit more discussion and especially like Keith and I {disfmarker} I have more linguistic things to settle in the next few days , um , it 'll probably change again some more .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , maybe I will {disfmarker} let 's start b let 's start on number two actually on the notation , um , because that 's , I 'm thinking , possibly a little more familiar to , um {disfmarker} to people . OK , so the top block is just sort of a {disfmarker} sort of abstract nota it 's sort of like , um , listings of the kinds of things that we can have . And certain things that have , um , changed , have changed back to this . There {disfmarker} there 's been a little bit of , um , going back and forth . But basically obviously all constructions have some kind of name . I forgot to include that you could have a type included in this line .\n",
      "Professor C: What I was gonna {disfmarker} Right .\nGrad F: So something like , um {disfmarker} Well , there 's an example {disfmarker} the textual example at the end has clausal construction . So , um , just to show it doesn't have to be beautiful It could be , you know , simple old text as well . Um , there are a couple of {disfmarker} Uh , these three have various ways of doing certain things . So I 'll just try to go through them . So they could all have a type at the beginning . Um , and then they say the key word construction\n",
      "Professor C: Oh , I see .\nGrad F: and they have some name .\nProfessor C: So {disfmarker} so the current syntax is if it s if there 's a type it 's before construct\nGrad F: Yeah , right .\nProfessor C: OK , that 's fine .\n",
      "Grad F: OK , and then it has a block that is constituents . And as usual I guess all the constructions her all the examples here have only , um , tsk {comment} one type of constituent , that is a constructional constituent . I think that 's actually gonna turn out to m be certainly the most common kind . But in general instead of the word \" construct \" , th here you might have \" meaning \" or \" form \" as well . OK ? So if there 's some element that doesn't {disfmarker} that isn't yet constructional in the sense that it maps form and meaning . OK , um , the main change with the constructs which {disfmarker} each of which has , um , the key word \" construct \" and then some name , and then some type specification , is that it 's {disfmarker} it 's pro it 's often {disfmarker} sometimes the case in the first case here that you know what kind of construction it is . So for example whatever I have here is gonna be a form of the word \" throw \" , or it 's gonna be a form of the word , you know , I don't know , \" happy \" , or something like that . Or , you know , some it 'll be a specific word or maybe you 'll have the type . You 'll say \" I need a p uh spatial relation phrase here \" or \" I need a directional specifier here \" . So - uh you could have a j a actual type here . Um , or you could just say in the second case that you only know the meaning type . So a very common example of this is that , you know , in directed motion , the first person to do something should be an agent of some kind , often a human . Right ? So if I {disfmarker} you know , the um , uh , run down the street then I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I run down the street , it 's typed , uh , \" I \" , meaning category is what 's there . The {disfmarker} the new kind is this one that is sort of a pair and , um , sort of skipping fonts and whatever . The idea is that sometimes there are , um , general constructions that you know , that you 're going to need . It 's {disfmarker} it 's the equivalent of a noun phrase or a prepositional phrase , or something like that there .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: And usually it has formal um , considerations that will go along with it .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: And then uh , you might know something much more specific depending on what construction you 're talking about , about what meaning {disfmarker} what specific meaning you want . So the example again at the bottom , which is directed motion , you might need a nominal expression to take the place of , you know , um , \" the big th \" , you you know , \" the big {disfmarker} the tall dark man \" , you know , \" walked into the room \" .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: But because of the nature of this particular construction you know not just that it 's nominal of some kind but in particular , that it 's some kind of animate nominal , and which will apply just as well to like , you know , a per you know , a simple proper noun or to some complicated expression . Um , so I don't know if the syntax will hold but something that gives you a way to do both constructional and meaning types . So . OK , then I don't think the , {comment} um {disfmarker} at least {disfmarker} Yeah . {comment} None of these examples have anything different for formal constraints ? But you can refer to any of the , um , sort of available elements and scope , right ? which here are the constructs , {comment} to say something about the relation . And I think i if you not if you compare like the top block and the textual block , um , we dropped like the little F subscript . The F subscripts refer to the \" form \" piece of the construct .\n",
      "Professor C: Good .\n",
      "Grad F: And I think that , um , in general it 'll be unambiguous . Like if you were giving a formal constraint then you 're referring to the formal pole of that . So {disfmarker} so by saying {disfmarker} if I just said \" Name one \" then that means name one formal and we 're talking about formal struc {comment} Which {disfmarker} which makes sense . Uh , there are certain times when we 'll have an exception to that , in which case you could just indicate \" here I mean the meaningful for some reason \" . Right ? Or {disfmarker} Actually it 's more often that , only to handle this one special case of , you know , \" George and Jerry walk into the room in that order \" .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So we have a few funny things where something in the meaning might refer to something in the form . But {disfmarker} but s we 're not gonna really worry about that for right now and there are way We can be more specific if we have to later on . OK , and so in terms of the {disfmarker} the relations , you know , as usual they 're before and ends . I should have put an example in of something that isn't an interval relation but in form you might also have a value binding . You know , you could say that , um , you know , \" name - one dot \" , t you know , \" number equals \" , you know , a plural or something like that .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: There are certain things that are attribute - value , similar to the bindings below but I mean they 're just {disfmarker} us usually they 're going to be value {disfmarker} value fillers , right ? OK , and then again semantic constraints here are just {disfmarker} are just bindings . There was talk of changing the name of that . And Johno and I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you and I can like fight about that if you like ? but about changing it to \" semantic {pause} n effects \" , which I thought was a little bit too order - biased\n",
      "Grad B: Well {disfmarker} Th\n",
      "Grad F: and \" semantic bindings \" , which I thought might be too restrictive in case we don't have only bindings . And so it was an issue whether constraints {disfmarker} um , there were some linguists who reacted against \" constraints \" , saying , \" oh , if it 's not used for matching , then it shouldn't be called a constraint \" . But I think we want to be uncommitted about whether it 's used for matching or not . Right ? Cuz there are {disfmarker} I think we thought of some situations where it would be useful to use whatever the c bindings are , for actual , you know , sort of like modified constraining purposes .\n",
      "Professor C: Well , you definitely want to de - couple the formalism from the parsing strategy . So that whether or not it 's used for matching or only for verification , I {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah , yeah . It 's used shouldn't matter , right ? Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: s For sure . I mean , I don't know what , uh , term we want to use\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: but we don't want to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , uh , there was one time when {disfmarker} when Hans explained why \" constraints \" was a misleading word for him .\nProfessor C: Yep .\nGrad F: And I think the reason that he gave was similar to the reason why Johno thought it was a misleading term , which was just an interesting coincidence . Um , but , uh {disfmarker} And so I was like , \" OK , well both of you don't like it ?\nProfessor C: It 's g it 's gone .\n",
      "Grad F: Fine , we can change it \" . But I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm starting to like it again .\nGrad B: But {disfmarker}\nGrad F: So that that 's why {disfmarker} {comment} That 's why I 'll stick with it .\nGrad A: Well , you know what ?\nGrad F: So {disfmarker}\nGrad A: If you have an \" if - then \" phrase , do you know what the \" then \" phrase is called ?\nProfessor C: Th\nGrad F: What ? Con - uh , a consequent ?\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , but it 's not an \" if - then \" .\nGrad A: No , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: I know . Anyway , so the other {disfmarker} the other strategy you guys could consider is when you don't know what word to put , you could put no word ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: just meaning . OK ? And the then let {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah , that 's true .\nGrad B: So that 's why you put semantic constraints up top and meaning bindings down {disfmarker} down here ?\n",
      "Grad F: Oh , oops ! No . That was just a mistake of cut and paste from when I was going with it .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad F: So , I 'm sorry . I didn't mean {disfmarker} that one 's an in unintentional .\nGrad B: So this should be semantic and {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Sometimes I 'm intentionally inconsistent\nGrad B: \nGrad F: cuz I 'm not sure yet . Here , I actually {disfmarker} it was just a mistake .\nGrad B: Th - so this definitely should be \" semantic constraints \" down at the bottom ?\n",
      "Grad E: Sure .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad B: OK .\nGrad F: Well , unless I go with \" meaning \" but i I mean , I kind of like \" meaning \" better than \" semantic \"\nGrad B: Or {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Oh , whatever .\nGrad F: but I think there 's {pause} vestiges of other people 's biases .\nProfessor C: Or {disfmarker} wh That - b\nGrad F: Like {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Right . Minor {disfmarker} min problem {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Minor point .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad E: Extremely .\n",
      "Grad F: OK , um , so I think the middle block doesn't really give you any more information , ex than the top block . And the bottom block similarly only just illus you know , all it does is illustrate that you can drop the subscripts and {disfmarker} and that you can drop the , um {disfmarker} uh , that you can give dual types . Oh , one thing I should mention is about \" designates \" . I think I 'm actually inconsistent across these as well . So , um , strike out the M subscript on the middle block .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So basically now , um , this is actually {disfmarker} this little change actually goes along with a big linguistic change , which is that \" designates \" isn't only something for the semantics to worry about now .\nProfessor C: Good .\n",
      "Grad F: So we want s \" designates \" to actually know one of the constituents which acts like a head in some respects but is sort of , um , really important for say composition later on . So for instance , if some other construction says , you know , \" are you of type {disfmarker} is this part of type whatever \" , um , the \" designates \" tells you which sort of part is the meaning part . OK , so if you have like \" the big red ball \" , you know , you wanna know if there 's an object or a noun . Well , ball is going to be the designated sort of element of that kind of phrase .\n",
      "Grad E: Mmm .\nGrad F: Um , there is a slight complication here which is that when we talk about form it 's useful sometimes to talk about , um {disfmarker} to talk about there also being a designated object and we think that that 'll be the same one , right ? So the ball is the head of the phrase , \" the r the {disfmarker} \" , um , \" big red ball \" , and the entity denoted by the word \" ball \" is sort of the semantic head in some ways of {disfmarker} of this sort of , um , in interesting larger element .\n",
      "Professor C: A a and the {disfmarker} Yeah . And there 's {disfmarker} uh there 's ca some cases where the grammar depends on some form property of the head . And {disfmarker} and this enables you to get that , if I understand you right .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Right , right .\nGrad E: That 's the idea .\nProfessor C: Yeah yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: And , uh , you might be able to say things like if the head has to go last in a head - final language , you can refer to the head as a p the , you know {disfmarker} the formal head as opposed to the rest of the form having to be at the end of that decision .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: So that 's a useful thing so that you can get some internal structural constraints in .\nProfessor C: OK , so that all looks good . Let me {disfmarker} Oh , w Oh . I don't know . Were you finished ?\n",
      "Grad F: Um , there was a list of things that isn't included but you {disfmarker} you can {disfmarker} you can ask a question . That might @ @ it .\nProfessor C: OK . So , i if I understand this the {disfmarker} aside from , uh , construed and all that sort of stuff , the {disfmarker} the differences are mainly that , {vocalsound} we 've gone to the possibility of having form - meaning pairs for a type\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: or actually gone back to ,\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: if we go back far enough {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Well , except for their construction meaning , so it 's not clear that , uh {disfmarker} Well , right now it 's a c uh contr construction type and meaning type . So I don't know what a form type is .\nProfessor C: Oh , I see . Yeah , yeah , yeah . I 'm sorry , you 're right .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: A construction type . Uh , that 's fine . But it , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Right . A well , and a previous , um , you know , version of the notation certainly allowed you to single out the meaning bit by it . So you could say \" construct of type whatever designates something \" .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: But that was mostly for reference purposes , just to refer to the meaning pole . I don't think that it was often used to give an extra meaning const type constraint on the meaning , which is really what we want most of the time I think .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , I {disfmarker} I don't know if we 'll ever have a case where we actually h if there is a form category constraint , you could imagine having a triple there that says , you know {disfmarker} that 's kind of weird .\nProfessor C: No , no , no , I don't think so . I think that you 'll {disfmarker} you 'll do fine .\nGrad E: I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: In fact , these are , um , as long as {disfmarker} as Mark isn't around , these are form constraints . So a nominal expression is {disfmarker} uh , the fact that it 's animate , is semantic . The fact that it 's n uh , a nominal expression I would say on most people 's notion of {disfmarker} of f you know , higher form types , this i this is one .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Right , right .\nProfessor C: And I think that 's just fine .\nGrad E: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Which is fine , yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: It 's {disfmarker} that now , um , I 'm mentioned this , I {disfmarker} I don't know if I ever explained this but the point of , um , I mentioned in the last meeting , {comment} the point of having something called \" nominal expression \" is , um , because it seems like having the verb subcategorize for , you know , like say taking as its object just some expression which , um , designates an object or designates a thing , or whatever , um , that leads to some syntactic problems basically ? So you wanna , you know {disfmarker} you sort of have this problem like \" OK , well , I 'll put the word \" , uh , let 's say , the word \" dog \" , you know . And that has to come right after the verb\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: cuz we know verb meets its object . And then we have a construction that says , oh , you can have \" the \" preceding a noun . And so you 'd have this sort of problem that the verb has to meet the designatum .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: And you could get , you know , \" the kicked dog \" or something like that , meaning \" kicked the dog \" .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Um , so you kind of have to let this phrase idea in there\nProfessor C: That I {disfmarker} I have no problem with it at all .\n",
      "Grad E: but {disfmarker} It - it\nProfessor C: I think it 's fine .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah . Right , n s you may be {disfmarker} you may not be like everyone else in {disfmarker} in Berkeley ,\nGrad E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad F: but that 's OK .\nGrad E: I mean , we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we sort of thought we were getting away with , uh {disfmarker} with , a p\nGrad F: Uh , we don't mind either , so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: I mean , this is not reverting to the X - bar theory of {disfmarker} of phrase structure .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: But , uh ,\nGrad F: Right .\nGrad E: I just know that this is {disfmarker} Like , we didn't originally have in mind that , uh {disfmarker} that verbs would subcategorize for a particular sort of form .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: But they do .\nGrad E: Um , but they does .\nGrad F: Well , there 's an alternative to this\nGrad E: At least in English .\n",
      "Grad F: which is , um {disfmarker} The question was did we want directed motion ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: which is an argument structure construction {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: did we want it to worry about , um , anything more than the fact that it , you know , has semantic {disfmarker} You know , it 's sort of frame - based construction . So one option that , you know , Keith had mentioned also was like , well if you have more abstract constructions such as subject , predicate , basically things like grammatical relations ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: those could intersect with these in such a way that subject , predicate , or subject , predicate , subject , verb , ob you know , verb object would require that those things that f fill a subject and object are NOM expressions .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: And that would be a little bit cleaner in some way . But you know , for now , I mean ,\nProfessor C: Yeah . But it {disfmarker} y y it 's {disfmarker} yeah , just moving it {disfmarker} moving the c the cons the constraints around .\nGrad F: uh , you know . M moving it to another place , right .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: OK , so that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad F: But there does {disfmarker} basically , the point is there has to be that constraint somewhere , right ?\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: So , yeah .\nProfessor C: And so that was the {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Robert 's not happy now ?\nGrad A: No !\nGrad F: Oh , OK .\nProfessor C: OK , and sort of going with that is that the designatum also now is a pair .\nGrad F: Yes .\nProfessor C: Instead of just the meaning .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: And that aside from some terminology , that 's basically it .\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor C: I just want to b I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm asking .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Yep .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah , um , the un sort of the un - addressed questions in this , um , definitely would for instance be semantic constraints we talked about .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: Here are just bindings but , right ? we might want to introduce mental spaces {disfmarker} You know , there 's all these things that we don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: The whole {disfmarker} the mental space thing is clearly not here .\nGrad F: Right ? So there 's going to be some extra {disfmarker} you know , definitely other notation we 'll need for that which we skip for now .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: By the way , I do want to get on that as soon as Robert gets back .\nGrad F: Uh Yeah .\nProfessor C: So , uh , the {disfmarker} the mental space thing .\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , obviously , {vocalsound} construal is a b is a b is a big component of that\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: so this probably not worth trying to do anything till he gets back . But sort of as soon as he gets back I think um , we ought to {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: So what 's the {disfmarker} what 's the time frame ? I forgot again when you 're going away for how long ?\n",
      "Grad A: Just , uh , as a {disfmarker} sort of a mental bridge , I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm skipping fourth of July . So , uh , {vocalsound} right afterwards I 'm back .\nGrad E: OK . OK .\nGrad F: What ? You 're missing like the premier American holiday ? What 's the point of spending a year here ?\nGrad A: Uh , I 've had it often enough .\nGrad F: So , anyway .\nGrad B: Well he w he went to college here .\nGrad F: Oh , yeah , I forgot . Oops . {comment} Sorry .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: OK .\nProfessor C: And furthermore it 's well worth missing .\nGrad F: Not in California .\nGrad E: Yes .\nGrad F: Yeah , that 's true . I like {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I like spending fourth of July in other countries , {vocalsound} whenever I can .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: OK , so that 's great .\n",
      "Grad F: Construal , OK , so {disfmarker} Oh , so there was one question that came out . I hate this thing . Sorry . Um , which is , so something like \" past \" which i you know , we think is a very simple {disfmarker} uh , we 've often just stuck it in as a feature ,\nProfessor C: Right . Right .\nGrad F: you know , \" oh , {pause} this event takes place before speech time \" , {comment} OK , is what this means . Um , it 's often thought of as {disfmarker} it is also considered a mental space ,\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: you know , by , you know , lots of people around here .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: So there 's this issue of well sometimes there are really exotic explicit space builders that say \" in France , blah - blah - blah \" ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: and you have to build up {disfmarker} you ha you would imagine that would require you , you know , to be very specific about the machinery , whereas past is a very conventionalized one and we sort of know what it means but it {disfmarker} we doesn't {disfmarker} don't necessarily want to , you know , unload all the notation every time we see that it 's past tense .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: So , you know , we could think of our {disfmarker} uh , just like X - schema \" walk \" refers to this complicated structure , past refers to , you know , a certain configuration of this thing with respect to it .\nProfessor C: I think that 's exactly right .\nGrad F: So {disfmarker} so we 're kind of like having our cake and eating it {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: you know , having it both ways , right ?\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . {pause} No , I think {disfmarker} I think that i we 'll have to see how it works out when we do the details\nGrad F: So , i i Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: but my intuition would be that that 's right .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , OK .\nGrad A: Do you want to do the same for space ?\nGrad F: Wha - sorry ?\nGrad A: Space ?\nGrad F: Space ?\nGrad A: Here ? Now ?\nGrad F: Oh , oh , oh , oh , instead of just time ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , yeah , yeah . Same thing . So there are very conventionalized like deictic ones , right ? And then I think for other spaces that you introduce , you could just attach y whatever {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad F: You could build up an appropriately {disfmarker} uh , appropriate structure according to the l the sentence .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad A: Hmm , well this {disfmarker} this basically would involve everything you can imagine to fit under your C dot something {disfmarker}\nGrad E: N\nGrad A: you know , where {disfmarker} where it 's contextually dependent ,\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah . Right .\nGrad A: \" what is now , what was past ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: what is in the future , where is this , what is here , what is there , what is {disfmarker} \"\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Yeah . So time and space . Um , we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll get that on the other side a little , like very minimally . There 's a sort of there 's a slot for setting time and setting place .\nProfessor C: Good .\n",
      "Grad F: And you know , you could imagine for both of those are absolute things you could say about the time and place , and then there are many in more interestingly , linguistically anyway , {comment} there are relative things that , you know , you relate the event in time and space to where you are now . If there 's something a lot more complicated like , or so {disfmarker} hypothetical or whatever , then you have to do your job ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: like or somebody 's job anyway .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: I 'm gonna point to {disfmarker} at random .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah . I mean , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm s curious about how much of the mental {disfmarker} I mean , I 'm not sure that the formalism , sort of the grammatical side of things , {comment} is gonna have that much going on in terms of the mental space stuff . You know , um , basically all of these so - called space builders that are in the sentence are going to sort of {disfmarker} I think of it as , sort of giving you the coordinates of , you know {disfmarker} assuming that at any point in discourse there 's the possibility that we could be sort of talking about a bunch of different world scenarios , whatever , and the speaker 's supposed to be keeping track of those . The , um {disfmarker} the construction that you actually get is just gonna sort of give you a cue as to which one of those that you 've already got going , um , you 're supposed to add structure to .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: So \" in France , uh , Watergate wouldn't have hurt Nixon \" or something like that . Um , well , you say , \" alright , I 'm supposed to add some structure to my model of this hypothetical past France universe \" or something like that . The information in the sentence tells you that much but it doesn't tell you like exactly what it {disfmarker} what the point of doing so is . So for example , depending on the linguistic con uh , context it could be {disfmarker} like the question is for example , what does \" Watergate \" refer to there ? Does it , you know {disfmarker} does it refer to , um {disfmarker} if you just hear that sentence cold , the assumption is that when you say \" Watergate \" you 're referring to \" a Watergate - like scandal as we might imagine it happening in France \" . But in a different context , \" oh , you know , if Nixon had apologized right away it wouldn't {disfmarker} you know , Watergate wouldn't have hurt him so badly in the US and in France it wouldn't have hurt him at all \" . Now we 're s now that \" Watergate \" {disfmarker} we 're now talking about the real one ,\n",
      "Grad F: They 're real , right .\nGrad E: and the \" would \" sort of {disfmarker} it 's a sort of different dimension of hypothe - theticality , right ? We 're not saying {disfmarker} What 's hypothetical about this world .\nGrad F: I see {disfmarker} right .\nGrad E: In the first case , hypothetically we 're imagining that Watergate happened in France .\nGrad F: Hmm .\nGrad E: In the second case we 're imagining hypothetically that Nixon had apologized right away\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: or something . Right ?\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: So a lot of this isn't happening at the grammatical level .\nProfessor C: Correct .\nGrad E: Uh , um , and so {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: I don't know where that sits then ,\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad E: sort of the idea of sorting out what the person meant .\nGrad F: It seems like , um , the grammatical things such as the auxiliaries that you know introduce these conditionals , whatever , give you sort of the {disfmarker} the most basi\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: th those we {disfmarker} I think we can figure out what the possibilities are , right ?\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: There are sort of a relatively limited number . And then how they interact with some extra thing like \" in France \" or \" if such - and - such \" , that 's like there are certain ways that they c they can {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: You know , one is a more specific version of the general pattern that the grammat grammar gives you .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: I think . But , you know , whatever ,\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , in the short run all we need is a enough mechanism on the form side to get things going .\nGrad F: we {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh , I {disfmarker} uh , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: But the whole point of {disfmarker} the whole point of what Fauconnier and Turner have to say about , uh , mental spaces , and blending , and all that stuff is that you don't really get that much out of the sentence . You know , there 's not that much information contained in the sentence . It just says , \" Here . Add this structure to this space . \" and exactly what that means for the overall ongoing interpretation is quite open . An individual sentence could mean a hundred different things depending on , quote , \" what the space configuration is at the time of utterance \" .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: And so somebody 's gonna have to be doing a whole lot of work but not me , I think .\nProfessor C: Well {disfmarker} I think that 's right . Oh , I {disfmarker} yeah , I , uh , uh {disfmarker} I think that 's {disfmarker} Not k I th I don't think it 's completely right . I mean , in fact a sentence examples you gave in f did constrain the meaning b the form did constrain the meaning ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: and so , um , it isn't , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Sure , but like what {disfmarker} what was the point of saying that sentence about Nixon and France ? That is not {disfmarker} there is nothing about that in the {disfmarker} in the sentence really .\nGrad F: That 's OK . We usually don't know the point of the sentence at all .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: But we know what it 's trying to say .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Y yeah .\nGrad F: We {disfmarker} we know that it 's {disfmarker} what predication it 's setting up .\n",
      "Professor C: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} bottom line , I agree with you ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: That 's all .\nProfessor C: that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that we 're not expecting much out of the , uh f\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Purely linguistic cues , right ?\nProfessor C: uh , the purely form cues , yeah .\nGrad F: So .\nProfessor C: And , um {disfmarker} I mean , you 're {disfmarker} you 're the linguist\nGrad F: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor C: but , uh , it seems to me that th these {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} you know , we 've talked about maybe a half a dozen linguistics theses in the last few minutes or something .\nGrad E: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah , I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah . Oh , yeah .\nProfessor C: uh , I {disfmarker} I mean , that {disfmarker} that 's my feeling that {disfmarker} that these are really hard uh , problems that decide exactly what {disfmarker} what 's going on .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm . Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad F: OK , so , um , one other thing I just want to point out is there 's a lot of confusion about the terms like \" profile , designate , focus \" , et cetera , et cetera .\nProfessor C: Uh , right , right , right .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , for now I 'm gonna say like \" profile \" 's often used {disfmarker} like two uses that come to mind immediately . One is in the traditional like semantic highlight of one element with respect to everything else . So \" hypotenuse \" , you profiled this guy against the background of the {pause} right t right triangle .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: OK . And the second use , um , is in FrameNet. It 's slightly different . Oh , I was asking Hans about this . They use it to really mean , um , this {disfmarker} in a frame th this is {disfmarker} the profiles on the {disfmarker} these are the ones that are required . So they have to be there or expressed in some way . Which {disfmarker} which {disfmarker} I 'm not saying one and two are mutually exclusive but they 're {disfmarker} they 're different meanings .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So the closest thing {disfmarker} so I was thinking about how it relates to this notation . For us , um {disfmarker} OK , so how is it {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Does that {disfmarker} Is that really what they mean in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker}\nGrad F: so \" designate \" {disfmarker} FrameNet ?\nProfessor C:  I didn't know that .\nGrad F: FrameNet ? Yeah , yeah . I {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} I was a little bit surprised about it too .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: I knew that {disfmarker} I thought that that would be something like {disfmarker} there 's another term that I 've heard for that thing\nProfessor C: Right , OK .\nGrad F: but they {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} uh , well , at least Hans says they use it that way . And {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Well , I 'll check .\n",
      "Grad F: and may maybe he 's wrong . Anyway , so I think the {disfmarker} the \" designate \" that we have in terms of meaning is really the \" highlight this thing with respect to everything else \" . OK ?\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: So this is what {disfmarker} what it means . But the second one seems to be useful but we might not need a notation for it ? We don't have a notation for it but we might want one . So for example we 've talked about if you 're talking about the lexical item \" walk \" , you know it 's an action . Well , it also has this idea {disfmarker} it carries along with it the idea of an actor or somebody 's gonna do the walking . Or if you talk about an adjective \" red \" , it carries along the idea of the thing that has the property of having color red . So we used to use the notation \" with \" for this\n",
      "Professor C: Right .\nGrad F: and I think that 's closest to their second one . So I d don't yet know , I have no commitment , as to whether we need it . It might be {disfmarker} it 's the kind of thing that w a parser might want to think about whether we require {disfmarker} you know , these things are like it 's semantically part of it {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: N no , no . Well , uh , th critically they 're not required syntactically . Often they 're pres presu presupposed and all that sort of stuff .\n",
      "Grad F: Right . Right , right . Yeah , um , definitely . So , um , \" in \" was a good example . If you walk \" in \" , like well , in what ?\nProfessor C: Right , there 's {disfmarker}\nGrad F: You know , like you have to have the {disfmarker} {comment} So {disfmarker} so it 's only semantically is it {disfmarker} it is still required , say , by simulation time though\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: to have something . So it 's that {disfmarker} I meant the idea of like that {disfmarker} the semantic value is filled in by sim simulation . I don't know if that 's something we need to spa to {disfmarker} to like say ever as part of the requirement ? {disfmarker} or the construction ? or not . We 'll {disfmarker} we 'll again defer .\nProfessor C: Or {disfmarker} I mean , or {disfmarker} or , uh so the {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Have it construed ,\nProfessor C: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: is that the idea ? Just point at Robert . Whenever I 'm confused just point to him .\nProfessor C: Right . It 's {disfmarker} it 's his thesis , right ?\nGrad F: You tell me .\nProfessor C: Anyway ,\nGrad F: OK .\nProfessor C: right , yeah , w this is gonna be a b you 're right , this is a bit of in a mess and we still have emphasis as well , or stress , or whatever .\nGrad F: OK , well we 'll get , uh uh , I {disfmarker} we have thoughts about those as well .\nProfessor C: Yeah . Great .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , the I w I would just s some of this is just like my {disfmarker} you know , by fiat . I 'm going to say , this is how we use these terms . I don't - you know , there 's lots of different ways in the world that people use it .\nProfessor C: I {disfmarker} that 's fine .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: I think that , um , the other terms that are related are like focus and stress .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So , s I think that the way I {disfmarker} we would like to think , uh , I think is focus is something that comes up in , I mean , lots of {disfmarker} basically this is the information structure .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: OK , it 's like {disfmarker} uh , it 's not {disfmarker} it might be that there 's a syntactic , uh , device that you use to indicate focus or that there are things like , you know , I think Keith was telling me , {comment} things toward the end of the sentence , post - verbal , tend to be the focused {disfmarker} focused element ,\nGrad E: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad F: the new information . You know , if I {disfmarker} \" I walked into the room \" , you {disfmarker} tend to think that , whatever , \" into the room \" is sort of like the more focused kind of thing .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: And when you , uh , uh , you have stress on something that might be , you know , a cue that the stressed element , or for instance , the negated element is kind of related to information structure . So that 's like the new {disfmarker} the sort of like import or whatever of {disfmarker} of this thing . Uh , so {disfmarker} so I think that 's kind of nice to keep \" focus \" being an information structure term . \" Stress \" {disfmarker} I th and then there are different kinds of focus that you can bring to it . So , um , like \" stress \" , th stress is kind of a pun on {disfmarker} you might have like {disfmarker} whatever , like , um , accent kind of stress .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: And that 's just a {disfmarker} uh , w we 'll want to distinguish stress as a form device . You know , like , oh , high volume or whatever .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Um , t uh , and distinguish that from it 's effect which is , \" Oh , the kind of focus we have is we 're emphasizing this value often as opposed to other values \" , right ? So focus carries along a scope . Like if you 're gonna focus on this thing and you wanna know {disfmarker} it sort of evokes all the other possibilities that it wasn't .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Um , so my classic {disfmarker} my now - classic example of saying , \" Oh , he did go to the meeting ? \" ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: that was my way of saying {disfmarker} as opposed to , you know , \" Oh , he didn't g \" or \" There was a meeting ? \"\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: I think that was the example that was caught on by the linguists immediately .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: And so , um , the {disfmarker} like if you said he {disfmarker} you know , there 's all these different things that if you put stress on a different part of it then you 're , c focusing , whatever , on , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: \" he walked to the meeting \" as opposed to \" he ran \" , or \" he did walk to the meeting \" as opposed to \" he didn't walk \" . You know ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: so we need to have a notation for that which , um , I think that 's still in progress . So , sort of I 'm still working it out . But it did {disfmarker} one {disfmarker} one implication it does f have for the other side , which we 'll get to in a minute is that I couldn't think of a good way to say \" here are the possible things that you could focus on \" , cuz it seems like any entity in any sentence , you know , or any meaning component of anyth you know {disfmarker} all the possible meanings you could have , any of them could be the subject of focus .\n",
      "Professor C: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad F: But I think one {disfmarker} the one thing you can schematize is the kind of focus , right ? So for instance , you could say it 's the {disfmarker} the tense on this as opposed to , um , the {disfmarker} the action . OK . Or it 's {disfmarker} uh , it 's an identity thing or a contrast with other things , or stress this value as opposed to other things . So , um , it 's {disfmarker} it is kind of like a profile {disfmarker} profile - background thing but I {disfmarker} I can't think of like the limited set of possible meanings that you would {disfmarker} that you would focu\n",
      "Grad E: Light up with focus , yeah .\nGrad F: light {disfmarker} highlight as opposed to other ones . So it has some certain complications for the , uh , uh {disfmarker} later on . Li - I mean , uh , the best thing I can come up with is that information has a list of focused elements . For instance , you {disfmarker} Oh , one other type that I forgot to mention is like query elements and that 's probably relevant for the like \" where is \" , you know , \" the castle \" kind of thing ?\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Because you might want to say that , um , location or cert certain WH words bring {disfmarker} you know , sort of automatically focus in a , you know , \" I don't know the identity of this thing \" kind of way on certain elements . So . OK . Anyway . So that 's onl there are {disfmarker} there are many more things that are uncl that are sort of like a little bit unstable about the notation but it 's most {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} this is , you know , the current {disfmarker} current form . Other things we didn't {vocalsound} totally deal with , um ,\n",
      "Grad E: Oh , there 's a bunch .\nGrad F: well , we 've had a lot of other stuff that Keith and I have them working on in terms of like how you deal with like an adjective .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: You know , a {disfmarker} a nominal expression .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: And , um , I mean , we should have put an example of this and we could do that later .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: But I think the not inherently like the general principles still work though , that , um , we can have constructions that have sort of constituent structure in that there is like , you know , for instance , one {disfmarker} Uh , you know , they {disfmarker} they have constituents , right ? So you can like nest things when you need to , but they can also overlap in a sort of flatter way . So if you don't have like a lot of grammar experience , then like this {disfmarker} this might , you know , be a little o opaque . But , you know , we have the {pause} properties of dependency grammars and some properties of constituents {disfmarker} constituent - based grammar . So that 's {disfmarker} I think that 's sort of the main thing we wanted to aim for\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: and so far it 's worked out OK .\nProfessor C: Good .\nGrad F: So . OK .\nGrad A: I can say two things about the f\nGrad F: Yes .\nGrad A: Maybe you want to forget stress . This {disfmarker} my f\nGrad F: As a word ?\nGrad A: No , as {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} Just don't {disfmarker} don't think about it .\nGrad F: As a {disfmarker} What 's that ?\nGrad A: If {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Sorry .\n",
      "Grad A: canonically speaking you can {disfmarker} if you look at a {disfmarker} a curve over sentence , you can find out where a certain stress is and say , \" hey , that 's my focus exponent . \"\nGrad E: Right .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: It doesn't tell you anything what the focus is . If it 's just that thing ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Or the constituent that it falls in .\nGrad A: a little bit more or the whole phrase .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: You mean t forget about stress , the form cue ?\nGrad A: The form bit\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad A: because , uh , as a form cue , um , not even trained experts can always {disfmarker} well , they can tell you where the focus exponent is sometimes .\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad A: And that 's also mostly true for read speech . In {disfmarker} in real speech , um , people may put stress . It 's so d context dependent on what was there before , phrase ba breaks , um , restarts .\nGrad F: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: It 's just , um {disfmarker} it 's absurd . It 's complicated .\nGrad F: OK ,\nGrad A: And all {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah , I mean , I {disfmarker} I 'm sort of inclined to say let 's worry about specifying the information structure focus of the sentence\nGrad F: I believe you , yeah .\nGrad E: and then ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Ways that you can get it come from th\nGrad E: hhh , {comment} the phonology component can handle actually assigning an intonation contour to that .\nGrad F: right .\n",
      "Grad E: You know , I mean , later on we 'll worry about exactly how {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Or {disfmarker} or map from the contour to {disfmarker} to what the focus exponent is .\nGrad E: y Yeah . Exactly .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: But figure out how the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: But , uh , if you don't know what you 're {disfmarker} what you 're focus is then you 're {disfmarker} you 're hopeless - uh - ly lost anyways ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Right . That 's fine , yeah . Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: and the only way of figuring out what that is , {vocalsound} is , um , by sort of generating all the possible alternatives to each focused element , decide which one in that context makes sense and which one doesn't .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: And then you 're left with a couple three . So , you know , again , that 's something that h humans can do ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: um , but far outside the scope of {disfmarker} of any {disfmarker} anything . So . You know . It 's {disfmarker}\nGrad F: OK . Well , uh , yeah , I wouldn't have assumed that it 's an easy problem in {disfmarker} in absence of all the oth\nGrad A: u u\nGrad F: you need all the other information I guess .\n",
      "Grad A: But it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} what it {disfmarker} uh , it 's pretty easy to put it in the formalism , though . I mean , because\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad A: you can just say whatever stuff , \" i is the container being focused or the {disfmarker} the entire whatever , both , and so forth . \"\nGrad F: Mm - hmm , mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Yeah . Exactly . So the sort of effect of it is something we want to be able to capture .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , so b b but I think the poi I 'm not sure I understand but here 's what I th think is going on . That if we do the constructions right when a particular construction matches , it {disfmarker} the fact that it matches , does in fact specify the focus .\nGrad F: W uh , I 'm not sure about that .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad F: Or it might limit {disfmarker} it cert certainly constrains the possibilities of focus .\nProfessor C: Uh {disfmarker} k uh , at at the very least it constrai\n",
      "Grad F: I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's , th that 's certainly true . And depending on the construction it may or may not f specify the focus , right ?\nProfessor C: Oh , uh , for sure , yes . There are constrai yeah , it 's not every {disfmarker} but there are constructions , uh , where you t explicitly take into account those considerations\nGrad F: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: that you need to take into account in order to decide which {disfmarker} what is being focused .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm . So we talked about that a little bit this morning . \" John is on the bus , not Nancy . \"\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: So that 's {disfmarker} focuses on John .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: Hmm .\nGrad A: \" John is on the bus and not on the train . \"\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: \" John is on the bus \" versus \" John is on the train . \"\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: Right .\nGrad A: And \" John is on the bus \" versus \" was \" , and e\n",
      "Grad F: Is on . \" John is on the bus \" . Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: \" it 's the bu \" so e\nProfessor C: Right . Yeah , all {disfmarker} all of those .\nGrad A: All of these\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: Right .\nGrad A: and will we have {disfmarker} u is it all the same constructions ? Just with a different foc focus constituent ?\nGrad F: Yeah , I would say that argument structure in terms of like the main like sort of ,\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: I don't know {disfmarker} the fact that you can get it without any stress and you have some {disfmarker} whatever is predicated anyway should be the same set of constructions . So that 's why I was talking about overlapping constructions . So , then you have a separate thing that picks out , you know , stress on something relative to everything else .\nProfessor C: Yeah . So , the question is actually {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: oh , I 'm sorry ,\nGrad F: And it would {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: go ahead ,\nGrad F: yeah ,\nProfessor C: finish .\n",
      "Grad F: and it w and that would have to {disfmarker} uh it might be ambiguous as , uh , whether it picks up that element , or the phrase , or something like that . But it 's still is limited possibility .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nGrad F: So that should , you know , interact with {disfmarker} it should overlap with whatever other construction is there .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: S s the question is , do we have a way on the other page , uh , when we get to the s semantic side , of saying what the stressed element was , or stressed phrase , or something .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm . Well , so that 's why I was saying how {disfmarker} since I couldn't think of an easy like limited way of doing it , um , all I can say is that information structure has a focused slot\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: and I think that should be able to refer to {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: So that 's down at the bottom here when we get over there . OK .\nGrad F: Yeah , and , infer {disfmarker} and I don't have {disfmarker} I don't have a great way or great examples\n",
      "Professor C: I 'll - I 'll wait . OK .\nGrad F: but I think that {disfmarker} something like that is probably gonna be , uh , more {disfmarker} more what we have to do .\nGrad A: Hmm .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad F: But , um ,\nGrad A: So\nGrad F: OK , that was one comment . And you had another one ?\nGrad A: Yeah , well the {disfmarker} once you know what the focus is the {disfmarker} everything else is background . How about \" topic - comment \" that 's the other side of information .\nGrad F: How about what ?\n",
      "Grad A: Topic - comment .\nGrad F: Yeah , so that was the other thing . And so I didn't realize it before . It 's like , \" oh ! \" It was an epiphany that it {disfmarker} you know , topic and focus are a contrast set . So topic is {disfmarker} Topic - focused seems to me like , um , background profile , OK , or a landmark trajector , or some something like that . There 's {disfmarker} there 's definitely , um , that kind of thing going on .\nGrad A: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Now I don't know whether {disfmarker} I n I don't have as many great examples of like topic - indicating constructions on like focus , right ? Um , topic {disfmarker} it seems kind of {disfmarker} you know , I think that might be an ongoing kind of thing .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Japanese has this though . You know .\nGrad F: Topic marker ?\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah , that 's what \" wa \" is , uh , just to mark which thing is the topic .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: It doesn't always have to be the subject .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Right . So again , information structure has a topic slot . And , you know , I stuck it in thinking that we might use it .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Um , I think I stuck it in .\nProfessor C: Yep , it 's there .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , and one thing that I didn't do consistently , um , is {disfmarker} when we get there , is like indicate what kind of thing fits into every role . I think I have an idea of what it should be but th you know , so far we 've been getting away with like either a type constraint or , um , you know , whatever . I forg it 'll be a frame . You know , it 'll be {disfmarker} it 'll be another predication or it 'll be , um , I don't know , some value from {disfmarker} from some something , some variable and scope or something like that , or a slot chain based on a variable and scope . OK , so well that 's {disfmarker} should we flip over to the other side officially then ?\n",
      "Grad A: Mm - hmm , hmm .\nGrad E: OK , side one .\nGrad F: I keep , uh , like , pointing forward to it . Yeah . Now we 'll go back to s OK , so this doesn't include something which mi mi may have some effect on {disfmarker} on it , which is , um , the discourse situation context record , right ? So I didn't {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I meant just like draw a line and like , you know , you also have , uh , some tracking of what was going on .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: And sort of {disfmarker} this is a big scale comment before I , you know , look into the details of this . But for instance you could imagine instead of having {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I changed the name of {disfmarker} um it used to be \" entities \" . So you see it 's \" scenario \" , \" referent \" and \" discourse segment \" . And \" scenario \" is essentially what kind of {disfmarker} what 's the basic predication , what event happened . And actually it 's just a list of various slots from which you would draw {disfmarker} draw in order to paint your picture , a bunch of frames , bi and bindings , right ? Um , and obviously there are other ones that are not included here , general cultural frames and general like , uh , other action f\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: you know , specific X - schema frames . OK , whatever . The middle thing used to be \" entities \" because you could imagine it should be like really a list where here was various information . And this is intended to be grammatically specifiable information about a referent {disfmarker} uh , you know , about some entity that you were going to talk about . So \" Harry walked into the room \" , \" Harry \" and \" room \" , you know , the room {disfmarker} th but they would be represented in this list somehow . And it could also have for instance , it has this category slot . Um , it should be either category or in or instance . Basically , it could be a pointer to ontology . So that everything you know about this could be {disfmarker} could be drawn in . But the important things for grammatical purposes are for {disfmarker} things like number , gender , um {disfmarker} ki the ones I included here are slightly arbitrary but you could imagine that , um , you need to figure out wheth if it 's a group whether , um , some event is happening , linear time , linear spaces , like , you know , are {disfmarker} are they doing something serially or is it like , um , uh I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not sure . Because this partly came from , uh , Talmy 's schema and I 'm not sure we 'll need all of these actually . But {disfmarker} Um , and then the \" status \" I used was like , again , in some languages , you know , like for instance in child language you might distinguish between different status . So , th the {disfmarker} the big com and {disfmarker} and finally \" discourse segment \" is about {vocalsound} sort of speech - act - y information structure - y , like utterance - specific kinds of things . So the comment I was going to make about , um , changing entity {disfmarker} the entity 's block to reference is that {vocalsound} you can imagine your discourse like situation context , you have a set of entities that you 're sort of referring to . And you might {disfmarker} that might be sort of a general , I don't know , database of all the things in this discourse that you could refer to . And I changed to \" reference \" cuz I would say , for a particular utterance you have particular referring expressions in it . And those are the ones that you get information about that you stick in here . For instance , I know it 's going to be plural . I know it 's gonna be feminine or something like that . And {disfmarker} and these could actually just point to , you know , the {disfmarker} the ID in my other list of enti active entities , right ? So , um , uh , th there 's {disfmarker} there 's all this stuff about discourse status . We 've talked about . I almost listed \" discourse status \" as a slot where you could say it 's active . You know , there 's this , um , hierarchy {disfmarker} uh there 's a schematization of , you know , things can be active or they can be , um , accessible , inaccessible .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: It was the one that , you know , Keith , um , emailed to us once , to some of us , not all of us . And the thing is that that {disfmarker} I noticed that that , um , list was sort of discourse dependent . It was like in this particular set , s you know , instance , it has been referred to recently or it hasn't been ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: or this is something that 's like in my world knowledge but not active .\n",
      "Professor C: This {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} yeah , well there {disfmarker} there seems to be context properties .\nGrad F: So .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah , they 're contex and for instance , I used to have a location thing there but actually that 's a property of the situation . And it 's again , time , you know {disfmarker} at cert certain points things are located , you know , near or far from you\nProfessor C: Well , uh , uh , this is recursive\nGrad F: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: cuz until we do the uh , mental space story , we 're not quite sure {disfmarker} {comment} Th - th\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: which is fine . We 'll just {disfmarker} we 'll j\nGrad F: Yeah , yeah . So some of these are , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: we just don't know yet .\n",
      "Grad F: Right . So I {disfmarker} so for now I thought , well maybe I 'll just have in this list the things that are relevant to this particular utterance , right ? Everything else here is utterance - specific . Um , and I left the slot , \" predications \" , open because you can have , um , things like \" the guy I know from school \" .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Or , you know , like your referring expression might be constrained by certain like unbounded na amounts of prep you know , predications that you might make . And it 's unclear whether {disfmarker} I mean , you could just have in your scenario , \" here are some extra few things that are true \" , right ?\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: And then you could just sort of not have this slot here . Right ? You 're {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but it 's used for identification purposes .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little bit different from just saying \" all these things are true from my utterance \" .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Um .\nGrad E: Right , \" this guy I know from school came for dinner \" does not mean , um , \" there 's a guy , I know him from school , and he came over for dinner \" . That 's not the same effect .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , it 's a little bit {disfmarker} it 's a little bit different . Right ? So {disfmarker} Or maybe that 's like a restrictive , non - restrictive {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: you know , it 's like it gets into that kind of thing for {disfmarker} um , but maybe I 'm mixing , you know {disfmarker} this is kind of like the final result after parsing the sentence .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So you might imagine that the information you pass to , you know {disfmarker} in identifying a particular referent would be , \" oh , some {disfmarker} \" you know , \" it 's a guy and it 's someone I know from school \" .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: So maybe that would , you know , be some intermediate structure that you would pass into the disc to the , whatever , construal engine or whatever , discourse context , to find {disfmarker} you know , either create this reference ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: in which case it 'd be created here , and {disfmarker} you know , so {disfmarker} so you could imagine that this might not {disfmarker} So , uh , I 'm uncommitted to a couple of these things .\nGrad A: But {disfmarker} to make it m precise at least in my mind , uh , it 's not precise .\nGrad F: Um .\nGrad A: So \" house \" is gender neuter ? In reality\nGrad F: Um , it could be in {disfmarker}\nGrad A: or in {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Semantically .\n",
      "Grad A: semantically .\nGrad F: semantically , yeah . Yeah .\nGrad A: So {disfmarker}\nGrad F: So it uh , uh , a table . You know , a thing that c doesn't have a gender . So . Uh , it could be that {disfmarker} I mean , maybe you 'd {disfmarker} maybe not all these {disfmarker} I mean , I wou I would say that I tried to keep slots here that were potentially relevant to most {disfmarker} most things .\n",
      "Grad A: No , just to make sure that we {disfmarker} everybody that 's {disfmarker} completely agreed that it {disfmarker} it has nothing to do with , uh , form .\nGrad F: Yeah . OK , that is semantic as opposed to {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah . That 's right . Um .\nGrad A: Then \" predications \" makes sense to {disfmarker} to have it open for something like , uh , accessibility or not .\nGrad F: S so again {disfmarker} Open to various things .\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Right . OK , so . Let 's see . So maybe having made that big sca sort of like large scale comment , should I just go through each of these slots {disfmarker} uh , each of these blocks , um , a little bit ?\nGrad E: Sure .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , mostly the top one is sort of image schematic . And just a note , which was that , um {disfmarker} s so when we actually ha so for instance , um , some of them seem more inherently static , OK , like a container or sort of support - ish . And others are a little bit seemingly inherently dynamic like \" source , path , goal \" is often thought of that way or \" force \" , or something like that . But in actual fact , I think that they 're intended to be sort of neutral with respect to that . And different X - schemas use them in a way that 's either static or dynamic . So \" path \" , you could just be talking about the path between this and this .\n",
      "Grad E: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad F: And you know , \" container \" that you can go in and out . All of these things . And so , um , I think this came up when , uh , Ben and I were working with the Spaniards , um , the other day {disfmarker} the \" Spaniettes \" , as we {vocalsound} called them {disfmarker} um , to decide like how you want to split up , like , s image schematic contributions versus , like , X - schematic contributions . How do you link them up . And I think again , um , it 's gonna be something in the X - schema that tells you \" is this static or is this dynamic \" . So we definitely need {disfmarker} that sort of aspectual type gives you some of that . Um , that , you know , is it , uh , a state or is it a change of state , or is it a , um , action of some kind ?\n",
      "Grad A: Uh , i i i is there any meaning to when you have sort of parameters behind it and when you don't ?\nGrad F: Uh . Yeah .\nGrad A: Just means {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Oh , oh ! You mean , in the slot ?\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , no , it 's like X - sc it 's {disfmarker} it 's like I was thinking of type constraints but X - schema , well it obviously has to be an X - schema . \" Agent \" , I mean , the {disfmarker} the performer of the X - schema , that s depends on the X - schema . You know , and I {disfmarker} in general it would probably be , you know {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So the difference is basically whether you thought it was obvious what the possible fillers were .\nGrad F: Yeah , basically .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: OK .\nGrad F: Um , \" aspectual type \" probably isn't obvious but I should have {disfmarker} So , I just neglected to stick something in . \" Perspective \" , \" actor \" , \" undergoer \" , \" observer \" , um ,\nGrad B: Mmm .\nGrad F: I think we 've often used \" agent \" , \" patient \" , obser\nGrad E: \" Whee ! \" That 's that one , right ?\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , exactly . {vocalsound} Exactly . Um , and so one nice thing that , uh , we had talked about is this example {comment} of like , if you have a passive construction then one thing it does is ch you know {disfmarker} definitely , it is one way to {disfmarker} for you to , you know , specifically take the perspective of the undergoing kind of object . And so then we talked about , you know , whether well , does that specify topic as well ? Well , maybe there are other things . You know , now that it 's {disfmarker} subject is more like a topic . And now that , you know {disfmarker} Anyway . So . Sorry . I 'm gonna trail off on that one cuz it 's not that f important right now .\n",
      "Professor C: N now , for the moment we just need the ability to l l write it down if {disfmarker} if somebody figured out what the rules were .\nGrad F: Um , To know how {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah . Exactly .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: Um , some of these other ones , let 's see . So , uh , one thing I 'm uncertain about is how polarity interacts .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So polarity , uh , is using for like action did not take place for instance . So by default it 'll be like \" true \" , I guess , you know , if you 're specifying events that did happen . You could imagine that you skip out this {disfmarker} you know , leave off this polarity , you know , not {disfmarker} don't have it here . And then have it part of the speech - act in some way .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: There 's some negation . But the reason why I left it in is cuz you might have a change of state , let 's say , where some state holds and then some state doesn't hold , and you 're just talking , you know {disfmarker} if you 're trying to have the nuts and bolts of simulation you need to know that , you know , whatever , the holder doesn't and {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: No , I th I think at this lev which is {disfmarker} it should be where you have it .\n",
      "Grad F: OK , it 's {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's fine where it is .\nProfessor C: I mean , how you get it may {disfmarker} may in will often involve the discourse\nGrad F: So , OK . May come from a few places .\nProfessor C: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} by the time you 're simulating you sh y you should know that .\nGrad F: Right . Right .\n",
      "Grad E: So , {vocalsound} I 'm still just really not clear on what I 'm looking at . The \" scenario \" box , like , what does that look like for an example ? Like , not all of these things are gonna be here .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Correct .\nGrad E: This is just basically says\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . It 's a grab bag of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: \" part of what I 'm going to hand you is a whole bunch of s uh , schemas , image , and X - schemas . Here are some examples of the sorts of things you might have in there \" .\nGrad F: So that 's exactly what it is .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad F: And for a particular instance which I will , you know , make an example of something , is that you might have an instance of container and path , let 's say , as part of your , you know , \" into \" you know , definition .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: So you would eventually have instances filled in with various {disfmarker} various values for all the different slots .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: And they 're bound up in , you know , their bindings and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and values .\nProfessor C: W it c\nGrad E: OK . Do you have to say about the binding in your {disfmarker} is there a slot in here for {disfmarker} that tells you how the bindings are done ?\n",
      "Professor C: No , no , no . I {disfmarker} let 's see , I think we 're {disfmarker} we 're not {disfmarker} I don't think we have it quite right yet . So , uh , what this is ,\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: let 's suppose for the moment it 's complete . OK , uh , then this says that when an analysis is finished , the whole analysis is finished , {comment} you 'll have as a result , uh , some s resulting s semspec for that utterance in context ,\nGrad E: OK . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: which is made up entirely of these things and , uh , bindings among them . And bindings to ontology items .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: So that {disfmarker} that the who that this is the tool kit under whi out of which you can make a semantic specification .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: So that 's A . But B , which is more relevant to your life , is this is also the tool kit that is used in the semantic side of constructions .\nGrad E: OK . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: So this is an that anything you have , in the party line , {comment} anything you have as the semantic side of constructions comes , from pieces of this {disfmarker} ignoring li\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: I mean , in general , you ignore lots of it .\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor C: But it 's got to be pieces of this along with constraints among them .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: Uh , so that the , you know , goal of the , uh uh , \" source , path , goal \" has to be the landmark of the conta you know , the interior of this container .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Or whate whatever .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So those constraints appear in constructions\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: but pretty much this is the full range of semantic structures available to you .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad F: Except for \" cause \" , that I forgot . But anyway , there 's som some kind of causal structure for composite events .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: OK , good . Let 's {disfmarker} let 's mark that . So we need a c\n",
      "Grad F: Uh , I mean , so it gets a little funny . These are all {disfmarker} so far these structures , especially from \" path \" and on down , these are sort of relatively familiar , um , image schematic kind of slots . Now with \" cause \" , uh , the fillers will actually be themselves frames . Right ?\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: So you 'll say , \" event one causes event B {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this again may ge our , um {disfmarker} and we {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , of course , worlds .\nGrad F: uh , event two \" , and {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah . So that 's , uh these are all implicitly one {disfmarker} within , uh within one world . Um , even though saying that place takes place , whatever . Uh , if y if I said \" time \" is , you know , \" past \" , that would say \" set that this world \" , you know , \" somewhere , before the world that corresponds to our current speech time \" .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: So . But that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's sort of OK . The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} within the event it 's st it 's still one world . Um . Yeah , so \" cause \" and {disfmarker} Other frames that could come in {disfmarker} I mean , unfortunately you could bring in say for instance , um , uh , \" desire \" or something like that ,\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: like \" want \" . And actually there is right now under \" discourse segments \" , um , \" attitude \" ?\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: \" Volition \" ? could fill that . So there are a couple things where I like , \" oh , I 'm not sure if I wanted to have it there\nGrad E: Well that 's {disfmarker}\nGrad F: or {disfmarker} \" Basically there was a whole list of {disfmarker} of possible speaker attitudes that like say Talmy listed . And , like , well , I don't {disfmarker} you know , it was like \" hope , wish . desire \" ,\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad F: blah - blah - blah . And it 's like , well , I feel like if I wanted to have an extra meaning {disfmarker} I don't know if those are grammatically marked in the first place . So {disfmarker} They 're more lexically marked , right ?\nGrad E: Mmm .\nGrad F: At least in English . So if I wanted to I would stick in an extra frame in my meaning , saying , e so th it 'd be a hierarchical frame them , right ? You know , like \" Naomi wants {disfmarker} wants su a certain situation and that situation itself is a state of affairs \" .\n",
      "Professor C: S right . So {disfmarker} so , \" want \" itself can be {disfmarker} {pause} i i i i i\nGrad F: u Can be just another frame that 's part of your {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Well , and it i basically it 's an action . In {disfmarker} in our s in our {disfmarker} in our {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah . Situation . {comment} Right , right .\n",
      "Professor C: in {disfmarker} in our {disfmarker} in our s terminology , \" want \" can be an action and \" what you want \" is a world .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Hmm .\nProfessor C: So that 's {disfmarker} I mean , it 's certainly one way to do it .\nGrad F: Mmm .\nProfessor C: Yeah , there {disfmarker} there are other things .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Causal stuff we absolutely need . Mental space we need .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: The context we need . Um , so anyway , Keith {disfmarker} So is this comfortable to you that , uh , once we have this defined , it is your tool kit for building the semantic part of constructions .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: And then when we combine constructions semantically , the goal is going to be to fill out more and more of the bindings needed in order to come up with the final one .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: And that 's the wh and {disfmarker} and I mean , that {disfmarker} according to the party line , that 's the whole story .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Yeah . Um . y Right . That makes sense . So I mean , there 's this stuff in the {disfmarker} off in the scenario , which just tells you how various {disfmarker} what schemas you 're using and they 're {disfmarker} how they 're bound together . And I guess that some of the discourse segment stuff {disfmarker} is that where you would sa\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: I mean , that 's {disfmarker} OK , that 's where the information structure is which sort of is a kind of profiling on different parts of , um , of this .\nGrad F: Right . Exactly .\nGrad E: I mean , what 's interesting is that the information structure stuff {disfmarker} Hmm . There 's almost {disfmarker} I mean , we keep coming back to how focus is like this {disfmarker} this , uh , trajector - landmark thing .\nGrad F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: So if I say , um , You know , \" In France it 's like this \" . You know , great , we 've learned something about France but the fact is that utterances of that sort are generally used to help you draw a conclusion also about some implicit contrast , like \" In France it 's like this \" . And therefore you 're supposed to say , \" Boy , life sure {disfmarker} \"\nGrad F: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: You know , \" in France kids are allowed to drink at age three \" . And w you 're {disfmarker} that 's not just a fact about France . You also conclude something about how boring it is here in the U S . Right ?\nGrad F: Right , right .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: And so {disfmarker}\nGrad F: S so I would prefer not to worry about that for right now\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad F: and to think that there are , um ,\nGrad E: That comes in and , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: discourse level constructions in a sense , topic {disfmarker} topic - focus constructions that would say , \" oh , when you focus something \" then {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad F: just done the same way {disfmarker} just actually in the same way as the lower level . If you stressed , you know , \" John went to the {disfmarker} \" , you know , \" the bar \" whatever , you 're focusing that\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: and a in a possible inference is \" in contrast to other things \" .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: So similarly for a whole sentence , you know , \" in France such - and - such happens \" .\nGrad E: Yeah . Yeah , yeah .\nGrad F: So the whole thing is sort of like again implicitly as opposed to other things that are possible .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Uh , just {disfmarker} just , uh , look {disfmarker} read uh even sem semi formal Mats Rooth .\nGrad F: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad A: If you haven't read it . It 's nice .\nGrad F: Uh - huh .\nGrad A: And just pick any paper on alternative semantics .\n",
      "Grad F: Uh - huh .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad A: So that 's his {disfmarker} that 's the best way of talking about focus , is I think his way .\nGrad E: OK , what was the name ?\nGrad A: Mats . MATS . Rooth .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad A: I think two O 's , yes , TH .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad A: I never know how to pronounce his name because he 's sort of ,\nProfessor C: S Swede ?\nGrad A: uh , he is Dutch\nProfessor C: Dutch ?\n",
      "Grad A: and , um {disfmarker} but very confused background I think .\nProfessor C: Oh , Dutch .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh - huh .\nGrad A: So {pause} and , um ,\nGrad E: Mats Gould .\nGrad A: And sadly enough he also just left the IMS in Stuttgart . So he 's not there anymore .\nGrad E: Hmm .\nGrad A: But , um {disfmarker} I don't know where he is right now but alternative semantics is {disfmarker} if you type that into an , uh , uh , browser or search engine you 'll get tons of stuff .\n",
      "Grad E: OK . OK . OK , thanks .\nGrad A: And what I 'm kind of confused about is {disfmarker} is what the speaker and the hearer is {disfmarker} is sort of doing there .\nGrad F: So for a particular segment it 's really just a reference to some other entity again in the situation , right ? So for a particular segment the speaker might be you or might be me .\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Um , hearer is a little bit harder . It could be like multiple people . I guess that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's not very clear from here {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah , but you {disfmarker} Don't we ultimately want to handle that analogously to the way we handle time and place ,\nGrad F: I mean , that 's not allowed here .\n",
      "Grad A: because \" you \" , \" me \" , \" he \" , \" they \" , you know , \" these guys \" , all these expressions , nuh , are in {disfmarker} in much the same way contextually dependent as \" here , \" and \" now , \" and \" there \" {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Now , this is {disfmarker} this is assuming you 've already solved that .\nGrad F: Ye - yeah .\nProfessor C: So it 's {disfmarker} it 's Fred and Mary ,\nGrad F: So th\n",
      "Professor C: so the speaker would be Fred and the {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Ah !\nGrad F: Right , so the constructions might {disfmarker} of course will refer , using pronouns or whatever .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: In which case they have to check to see , uh , who the , uh , speaker in here wa in order to resolve those . But when you actually say that \" he walked into {disfmarker} \" , whatever , um , the \" he \" will refer to a particular {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you will already have figured who \" he \" or \" you \" , mmm , or \" I \" , maybe is a bett better example , who \" I \" refers to . Um , and then you 'd just be able to refer to Harry , you know , in wherever that person {disfmarker} whatever role that person was playing in the event .\n",
      "Grad A: Mmm . That 's up at the reference part .\nGrad F: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad A: And down there in the speaker - hearer part ?\n",
      "Grad F: S so , that 's {disfmarker} I think that 's just {disfmarker} n for instance , Speaker is known from the situation , right ? You 're {disfmarker} when you hear something you 're told who the speaker is {disfmarker} I mean , you know who the speaker is . In fact , that 's kind of constraining how {disfmarker} in some ways you know this before you get to the {disfmarker} you fill in all the rest of it . I think .\nProfessor C: Mmm .\nGrad F: I mean , how else would you um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: You know , uh , uh , it 's {disfmarker} the speaker may {disfmarker} in English is allowed to say \" I . \"\nProfessor C: Yeah . Well , here {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Uh , among the twenty - five percent most used words .\nGrad F: Yeah . Right .\nGrad A: But wouldn't the \" I \" then set up the {disfmarker} the s s referent {disfmarker} that happens to be the speaker this time\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad A: and not \" they , \" whoever they are .\nGrad F: Right , right .\n",
      "Grad A: Or \" you \" {disfmarker}\nGrad F: So {disfmarker}\nGrad A: much like the \" you \" could n\n",
      "Grad F: S so {disfmarker} OK , so I would say ref under referent should be something that corresponds to \" I \" . And maybe each referent should probably have a list of way whatever , the way it was referred to . So that 's \" I \" but , uh , uh , should we say it {disfmarker} it refers to , what ? Uh , if it were \" Harry \" it would refer to like some ontology thing . If it were {disfmarker} if it 's \" I \" it would refer to the current speaker , OK , which is given to be like , you know , whoever it is .\n",
      "Grad A: Well , not {disfmarker} not always . I mean , so there 's \" and then he said , I w \" Uh - huh .\nProfessor C: Uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: \" I \" within the current world .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah . That 's right . So {disfmarker} so again , this {disfmarker} uh , this {disfmarker} this is gonna to get us into the mental space stuff\nGrad F: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor C: and t because you know , \" Fred said that Mary said {disfmarker} \" , and whatever .\n",
      "Grad E: Mmm .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: And {disfmarker} and so we 're , uh gonna have to , um , chain those as well .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Twhhh - whhh . But {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . So this entire thing is inside a world ,\nProfessor C: Right . Right .\nGrad F: not just like the top part .\nProfessor C: I {disfmarker} I think , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad F: That 's {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor C: Except s it 's {disfmarker} it 's trickier than that because um , the reference for example {disfmarker} So he where it gets really tricky is there 's some things ,\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: and this is where blends and all terribl So , some things which really are meant to be identified and some things which aren't .\nGrad F: Yeah . Right .\nProfessor C: And again , all we need for the moment is some way to say that .\n",
      "Grad F: Right . So I thought of having like {disfmarker} for each referent , having the list of {disfmarker} of the things t with which it is identified . You know , which {disfmarker} which , uh you know , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: You could do that .\nGrad F: for instance , um {disfmarker} So , I guess , it sort of depends on if it is a referring exp if it 's identifiable already or it 's a new thing .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad F: If it 's a new thing you 'd have to like create a structure or whatever . If it 's an old thing it could be referring to , um , usually w something in a situation , right ? Or something in ontology .\nProfessor C: uh - huh .\nGrad F: So , there 's a you know , whatever , it c it could point at one of these .\nProfessor C: I just had a {disfmarker} I just had an {disfmarker} an idea that would be very nice if it works .\nGrad F: For what ?\nProfessor C: Uh , uh , uh , I haven't told you what it is yet .\n",
      "Grad F: If it works .\nProfessor C: This was my build - up .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . Mmm .\nProfessor C: An i an idea that would be nice i\nGrad F: Yeah . OK , we 're crossing our fingers .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad B: So we 're building a mental space , good .\nProfessor C: If it worked . Yeah .\nGrad F: OK .\nProfessor C: Right , it was a space builder . Um , we might be able to handle context in the same way that we handle mental spaces because , uh , you have somewhat the same things going on of , uh , things being accessible or not .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: And so , i\nGrad F: Yep .\nProfessor C: it c it {disfmarker} it , uh I think if we did it right we might be able to get at least a lot of the same structure .\nGrad F: Use the same {disfmarker} {comment} Yep .\nProfessor C: So that pulling something out of a discourse context is I think similar to other kinds of , uh , mental space phenomena .\nGrad B: I see .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm . And {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Uh , I 've {disfmarker} I 've {disfmarker} I 've never seen anybody write that up but maybe they did . I don't know . That may be all over the literature .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad E: There 's things like ther you know , there 's all kinds of stuff like , um , in {disfmarker} I think I mentioned last time in Czech if you have a {disfmarker} a verb of saying then\nGrad F: So {disfmarker} so by default {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: um , you know , you say something like {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} or I was thinking you can say something like , \" oh , I thought , uh , you are a republican \" or something like that . Where as in English you would say , \" I thought you were \" .\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Um , you know , sort of the past tense being copied onto the lower verb doesn't happen there , so you have to say something about , you know , tense is determined relative to current blah - blah - blah .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Same things happens with pronouns .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: There 's languages where , um , if you have a verb of saying then , ehhh , where {disfmarker} OK , so a situation like \" Bob said he was going to the movies \" , where that lower subject is the same as the person who was saying or thinking , you 're actually required to have \" I \" there .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Um , and it 's sort of in an extended function {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: So we would have it be in quotes in English .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad B: Right .\nGrad E: But it 's not perceived as a quotative construction .\nGrad F: Right .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: I mean , it 's been analyzed by the formalists as being a logophoric pronoun , um which means a pronoun which refers back to the person who is speaking or that sort of thing , right ?\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad F: Oh , right . Yeah , that makes sense .\nGrad E: Um , but {disfmarker} uh , that happens to sound like the word for \" I \" but is actually semantically unrelated to it .\nGrad F: Oh , no !\n",
      "Professor C: Oh , good , I love the formali\nGrad E: Um ,\nGrad F: Really ?\nGrad E: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nGrad F: You 're kidding .\nGrad E: There 's a whole book which basically operates on this assumption . Uh , Mary Dalrymple , uh , this book , a ninety - three book on , uh on pronoun stuff .\nGrad F: No , that 's horrible . OK . That 's horrible . {comment} OK .\n",
      "Grad E: Well , yeah . And then the same thing for ASL where , you know , you 're signing and someone says something . And then , you know , so \" he say \" , and then you sort of do a role shift . And then you sign \" I , this , that , and the other \" .\nGrad F: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad E: And you know , \" I did this \" . That 's also been analyzed as logophoric and having nothing to do with \" I \" . And the role shift thing is completely left out and so on . So , I mean , the point is that pronoun references , uh , you know , sort of ties in with all this mental space stuff and so on , and so forth .\nGrad F: Uh - huh .\nGrad E: And so , yeah , I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor C: So that {disfmarker} that d that does sound like it 's co consistent with what we 're saying , yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Right . Yeah .\nGrad F: OK , so it 's kind of like the unspecified mental spaces just are occurring in context . And then when you embed them sometimes you have to pop up to the h you know , depending on the construction or the whatever , um , you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you 're scope is {disfmarker} m might extend out to the {disfmarker} the base one .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: It would be nice to actually use the same , um , mechanism since there are so many cases where you actually need it 'll be one or the other .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: It 's like , oh , actually , it 's the same {disfmarker} same operation .\nProfessor C: Oh , OK , so this {disfmarker} this is worth some thought .\nGrad F: So .\n",
      "Grad E: It 's like {disfmarker} it 's like what 's happening {disfmarker} that , yeah , what what 's happening , uh , there is that you 're moving the base space or something like that , right ?\nGrad F: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad E: So that 's {disfmarker} that 's how Fauconnier would talk about it . And it happens diff under different circumstances in different languages .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: And so ,\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad E: um , things like pronoun reference and tense which we 're thinking of as being these discourse - y things actually are relative to a Bayes space which can change .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm ,\nGrad E: And we need all the same machinery .\nGrad F: right .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad F: Robert .\nProfessor C: Well , but , uh , this is very good actually\nGrad E: Schade .\nProfessor C: cuz it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} to the extent that it works , it y\nGrad F: Ties it all into it .\n",
      "Professor C: it {disfmarker} it ties together several of {disfmarker} of these things .\nGrad F: Yeah . Yep .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . And I 'm sure gonna read the transcript of this one . So . But the , uh , {disfmarker} {vocalsound} But it 's too bad that we don't have a camera . You know , all the pointing is gonna be lost .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Oh , yeah .\nGrad B: Well every time Nancy giggles it means {disfmarker} it means that it 's your job .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , that 's why I said \" point to Robert \" , {vocalsound} when I did it .\nGrad A: Uh . Yeah . Mmm , isn't {disfmarker} I mean , I 'm {disfmarker} I was sort of dubious why {disfmarker} why he even introduces this sort of reality , you know , as your basic mental space and then builds up {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: d doesn't start with some {disfmarker} because it 's so obvi it should be so obvious , at least it is to me , {comment} that whenever I say something I could preface that with \" I think . \" Nuh ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad A: So there should be no categorical difference between your base and all the others that ensue .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: No , but there 's {disfmarker} there 's a Gricean thing going on there , that when you say \" I think \" you 're actually hedging .\nGrad E: Yeah , I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Mmm . It 's like I don't totally think {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Yeah . Y\nGrad F: I mostly think , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} Absolutely .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , it 's an {disfmarker} it 's an evidential . It 's sort of semi - grammaticalized . People have talked about it this way . And you know , you can do sort of special things . You can , th put just the phrase \" I think \" as a parenthetical in the middle of a sentence and so on , and so forth .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nGrad E: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad F: Actually one of the child language researchers who works with T Tomasello studied a bunch of these constructions and it was like it 's not using any kind of interesting embedded ways just to mark , you know , uncertainty or something like that .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: So .\nGrad A: Yeah , but about linguistic hedges , I mean , those {disfmarker} those tend to be , um , funky anyways because they blur {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: So we don't have that in here either do we ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: Hedges ?\nProfessor C: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Hhh , {comment} I {disfmarker} there used to be a slot for speaker , um , it was something like factivity . I couldn't really remember what it meant\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: so I took it out .\nGrad E: Um .\nGrad F: But it 's something {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Well we were just talking about this sort of evidentiality and stuff like that , right ?\nGrad F: we {disfmarker} we were talking about sarcasm too , right ? Oh , oh .\nGrad E: I mean ,\nGrad F: Oh , yeah , yeah , right .\n",
      "Grad E: that 's what I think is , um , sort of telling you what percent reality you should give this\nProfessor C: So we probably should .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: or the , you know {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Confidence or something like that .\nGrad E: Yeah , and the fact that I 'm , you know {disfmarker} the fact maybe if I think it versus he thinks that might , you know , depending on how much you trust the two of us or whatever ,\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad A: Uh great word in the English language is called \" about \" .\n",
      "Grad E: you know {disfmarker}\nGrad A: If you study how people use that it 's also {disfmarker}\nGrad F: What 's the word ?\nGrad A: \" about . \" It 's about {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: About .\nGrad A: clever .\nProfessor C: Oh , that {disfmarker} in that use of \" about \" , yeah .\nGrad F: Oh , oh , oh , as a hedge .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: And I think {disfmarker} And I think {pause} y if you want us to spend a pleasant six or seven hours you could get George started on that .\nGrad E: He wrote a paper about thirty - five years ago on that one .\nGrad B: I r I read that paper ,\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad B: the hedges paper ? I read some of that paper actually .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Would you believe that that paper lead directly to the development of anti - lock brakes ?\nGrad F: What ?\nProfessor C: No .\n",
      "Grad E: Ask me about it later I 'll tell you how . When we 're not on tape .\nGrad F: I 'd love to know .\nGrad B: Oh , man .\nGrad F: So , and {disfmarker} and I think , uh , someone had raised like sarcasm as a complication at some point .\nProfessor C: There 's all that stuff . Yeah , let 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker}\nGrad F: And we just won't deal with sarcastic people .\nProfessor C: Yeah , I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: I don't really know what like {disfmarker} We {disfmarker} we don't have to care too much about the speaker attitude , right ? Like there 's not so many different {disfmarker} hhh , {comment} I don't know , m\nGrad F: Certainly not as some {disfmarker} Well , they 're intonational markers I think for the most part .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad F: I don't know too much about the like grammatical {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: I just mean {disfmarker} There 's lots of different attitudes that {disfmarker} that the speaker could have and that we can clearly identify , and so on , and so forth .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad E: But like what are the distinctions among those that we actually care about for our current purposes ?\nProfessor C: Right . Right , so , uh , this {disfmarker} this raises the question of what are our current purposes .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Right ?\nGrad E: Oh , shoot .\nGrad F: Oh , yeah , do we have any ?\n",
      "Grad E: Here it is three - fifteen already .\nGrad A: Mmm . Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh , so , um , I {disfmarker} I don't know the answer but {disfmarker} but , um , it does seem that , you know , this is {disfmarker} this is coming along . I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's converging . It 's {disfmarker} as far as I can tell there 's this one major thing we have to do which is the mental {disfmarker} the whole s mental space thing . And then there 's some other minor things .\n",
      "Grad F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Um , and we 're going to have to s sort of bound the complexity . I mean , if we get everything that anybody ever thought about you know , w we 'll go nuts .\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: So we had started with the idea that the actual , uh , constraint was related to this tourist domain and the kinds of interactions that might occur in the tourist domain , assuming that people were being helpful and weren't trying to d you know , there 's all sorts of {disfmarker} God knows , irony , and stuff like {disfmarker} which you {disfmarker} isn't probably of much use in dealing with a tourist guide .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah ?\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Uh .\nGrad F: M mockery .\n",
      "Professor C: Right . Whatever . So y uh , no end of things th that {disfmarker} that , you know , we don't deal with .\nGrad A: But it {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: And {disfmarker}\nGrad A: i isn't that part easy though\nProfessor C: Go ahead .\nGrad A: because in terms of the s simspec , it would just mean you put one more set of brack brackets around it , and then just tell it to sort of negate whatever the content of that is in terms of irony\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: N no .\nGrad F: Mmm .\n",
      "Grad A: or {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: No .\nGrad E: Right .\nGrad F: Maybe .\nProfessor C: No .\nGrad F: Yeah , in model theory cuz the semantics is always like \" speaker believes not - P \" , you know ?\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: Like \" the speaker says P and believes not - P \" .\nGrad E: We have a theoretical model of sarcasm now .\nGrad F: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad E: Yeah , right , I mean .\nProfessor C: No , no .\nGrad F: Right , right , but ,\n",
      "Professor C: Anyway , so {disfmarker} so , um , I guess uh , let me make a proposal on how to proceed on that , which is that , um , it was Keith 's , uh , sort of job over the summer to come up with this set of constructions . Uh , and my suggestion to Keith is that you , over the next couple weeks , n\nGrad E: Mmm .\nProfessor C: don't try to do them in detail or formally but just try to describe which ones you think we ought to have .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: Uh , and then when Robert gets back we 'll look at the set of them .\n",
      "Grad E: OK .\nProfessor C: Just {disfmarker} just sort of , you know , define your space .\nGrad E: Yeah , OK .\nProfessor C: And , um , so th these are {disfmarker} this is a set of things that I think we ought to deal with .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: And then we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll go back over it and w people will {disfmarker} will give feedback on it .\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: And then {disfmarker} then we 'll have a {disfmarker} at least initial spec of {disfmarker} of what we 're actually trying to do .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: And that 'll also be useful for anybody who 's trying to write a parser .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Knowing uh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: In case there 's any around .\nGrad F: If we knew anybody like that .\nProfessor C: Right , \" who might want \" et cetera . So , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Professor C: So a and we get this {disfmarker} this , uh , portals fixed and then we have an idea of the sort of initial range . And then of course Nancy you 're gonna have to , uh , do your set of {disfmarker} but you have to do that anyway .\nGrad F: For the same , yeah , data . Yeah , mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: So {disfmarker} so we 're gonna get the w we 're basically dealing with two domains , the tourist domain and the {disfmarker} and the child language learning .\nGrad B: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor C: And we 'll see what we need for those two . And then my proposal would be to , um , not totally cut off more general discussion but to focus really detailed work on the subset of things that we 've {disfmarker} we really want to get done .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: And then as a kind of separate thread , think about the more general things and {disfmarker} and all that .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: Well , I also think the detailed discussion will hit {disfmarker} you know , bring us to problems that are of a general nature and maybe even {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Uh , without doubt . Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad A: even suggest some solutions .\nProfessor C: But what I want to do is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is to {disfmarker} to constrain the things that we really feel responsible for .\nGrad A: Yeah . Mmm .\nProfessor C: So that {disfmarker} that we say these are the things we 're really gonna try do by the end of the summer\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: and other things we 'll put on a list of {disfmarker} of research problems or something , because you can easily get to the point where nothing gets done because every time you start to do something you say , \" oh , yeah , but what about this case ? \"\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: This is {disfmarker} this is called being a linguist .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: And , uh ,\nGrad E: Basically .\nGrad F: Or me .\nProfessor C: Huh ?\n",
      "Grad F: Or me . Anyways {disfmarker}\nGrad B: There 's that quote in Jurafsky and Martin where {disfmarker} where it goes {disfmarker} where some guy goes , \" every time I fire a linguist the performance of the recognizer goes up . \"\nProfessor C: Right .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad E: Exactly .\nProfessor C: Right . But anyway . So , is {disfmarker} is that {disfmarker} does that make sense as a , uh {disfmarker} a general way to proceed ?\nGrad F: Sure , yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , yeah , we 'll start with that , just figuring out what needs to be done then actually the next step is to start trying to do it .\nProfessor C: Exactly right .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nGrad E: Got it .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nGrad E: OK .\nGrad A: We have a little bit of news , uh , just minor stuff . The one big {disfmarker}\nGrad B: Ooo , can I ask a {disfmarker}\nGrad E: You ran out of power .\nGrad A: Huh ?\nGrad B: Can I ask a quick question about this side ?\nGrad A: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Yes .\nGrad B: Is this , uh {disfmarker} was it intentional to leave off things like \" inherits \" and {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Oops . Um ,\nGrad E: No .\nGrad F: not really {disfmarker} just on the constructions , right ?\nGrad B: Yeah , like constructions can inherit from other things ,\nGrad F: Um ,\nGrad B: am I right ?\nGrad F: yeah .\nGrad B: Yeah .\nGrad F: I didn't want to think too much about that for {disfmarker} for now .\nGrad B: OK .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: So , uh , maybe it was subconsciously intentional .\nProfessor C: Yeah , uh {disfmarker} yeah .\nGrad E: Um , yeah , there should be {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I wanted to s find out someday if there was gonna be some way of dealing with , uh , if this is the right term , multiple inheritance ,\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: where one construction is inheriting from , uh from both parents ,\nGrad F: Uh - huh . Yep .\nGrad E: uh , or different ones , or three or four different ones .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah . So let me {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Cuz the problem is that then you have to {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\nGrad E: which of {disfmarker} you know , which are {disfmarker} how they 're getting bound together .\nGrad F: Refer to {pause} them .\nProfessor C: Yeah , right , right , right . Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah , and {disfmarker} and there are certainly cases like that . Even with just semantic schemas we have some examples .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad F: So , and we 've been talking a little bit about that anyway .\nProfessor C: Yeah . So what I would like to do is separate that problem out .\nGrad F: Inherits .\nProfessor C: So um ,\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: my argument is there 's nothing you can do with that that you can't do by just having more constructions .\nGrad E: Yeah , yes .\nProfessor C: It 's uglier and it d doesn't have the deep linguistic insights and stuff .\nGrad E: That 's right .\nProfessor C: Uh ,\nGrad E: But whatever .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah , no , no , no no .\nGrad F: Uh , those are over rated .\nGrad E: No , by all means ,\nProfessor C: And so I {disfmarker} what I 'd like to do is {disfmarker} is in the short run focus on getting it right .\nGrad E: right . Uh , sure .\nProfessor C: And when we think we have it right then saying , \" aha ! ,\nGrad E: Yeah .\nProfessor C: can we make it more elegant ? \"\nGrad E: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor C: Can {disfmarker} can we , uh {disfmarker} What are the generalizations , and stuff ?\nGrad E: Yeah . Connect the dots . Yeah .\nProfessor C: But rather than try to guess a inheritance structure and all that sort of stuff before we know what we 're doing .\nGrad E: Yep . Yeah .\nProfessor C: So I would say in the short run we 're not gonna b\nGrad E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: First of all , we 're not doing them yet at all . And {disfmarker} and it could be that half way through we say , \" aha ! , we {disfmarker} we now see how we want to clean it up . \"\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor C: Uh , and inheritance is only one {disfmarker} I mean , that 's one way to organize it but there are others . And it may or may not be the best way .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nGrad A: Mmm .\nProfessor C: I 'm sorry , you had news .\n",
      "Grad A: Oh , just small stuff . Um , thanks to Eva on our web site we can now , if you want to run JavaBayes , uh , you could see {disfmarker} get {disfmarker} download these classes . And then it will enable you {disfmarker} she modified the GUI so it has now a m a m a button menu item for saving it into the embedded JavaBayes format .\nGrad D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad B: Mmm .\nGrad A: So that 's wonderful .\nProfessor C: Great .\n",
      "Grad A: And , um and she , a You tested it out . Do you want to say something about that , that it works , right ? With the {disfmarker}\nGrad D: I was just checking like , when we wanna , um , get the posterior probability of , like , variables . You know how you asked whether we can , like , just observe all the variables like in the same list ? You can't .\nGrad A: Uh - huh .\nGrad D: You have to make separate queries every time .\nGrad A: OK , that 's {disfmarker} that 's a bit unfortunate\nGrad D: So {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: but for the time being it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's fine to do it {disfmarker}\nGrad D: You just have to have a long list of , you know , all the variables .\nGrad A: Yeah . But uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: Basically .\nGrad F: Uh , all the things you want to query , you just have to like ask for separately .\nGrad D: Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: Well that 's {disfmarker} probably maybe in the long term that 's good news because it forces us to think a little bit more carefully how {disfmarker} how we want to get an out output . Um , but that 's a different discussion for a different time . And , um , I don't know . We 're really running late , so I had , uh , an idea yesterday but , uh , I don't know whether we should even start discussing .\nProfessor C: W what {disfmarker} Yeah , sure , tell us what it is .\n",
      "Grad A: Um , the construal bit that , um , has been pointed to but hasn't been , um , made precise by any means , um , may w may work as follows . I thought that we would , uh {disfmarker} that the following thing would be in incredibly nice and I have no clue whether it will work at all or nothing . So that 's just a tangent , a couple of mental disclaimers here . Um , imagine you {disfmarker} you write a Bayes - net , um {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Bayes ?\nGrad A: Bayes - net ,\nGrad F: OK .\n",
      "Grad A: um , completely from scratch every time you do construal . So you have nothing . Just a white piece of paper .\nProfessor C: Mmm , right .\nGrad A: You consult {disfmarker} consult your ontology which will tell you a bunch of stuff , and parts , and properties , uh - uh - uh\nGrad F: Grout out the things that {disfmarker} that you need .\nProfessor C: Right .\n",
      "Grad A: then y you 'd simply write , uh , these into {disfmarker} onto your {disfmarker} your white piece of paper . And you will get a lot of notes and stuff out of there . You won't get {disfmarker} you won't really get any C P T 's , therefore we need everything that {disfmarker} that configures to what the situation is , IE , the context dependent stuff . So you get whatever comes from discourse but also filtered . Uh , so only the ontology relevant stuff from the discourse plus the situation and the user model .\nGrad F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad A: And that fills in your CPT 's with which you can then query , um , the {disfmarker} the net that you just wrote and find out how thing X is construed as an utterance U . And the embedded JavaBayes works exactly like that , that once you {disfmarker} we have , you know , precise format in which to write it , so we write it down . You query it . You get the result , and you throw it away . And the {disfmarker} the nice thing about this idea is that you don't ever have to sit down and think about it or write about it . You may have some general rules as to how things can be {disfmarker} can be construed as what , so that will allow you to craft the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the initial notes . But it 's {disfmarker} in that respect it 's completely scalable . Because it doesn't have any prior , um , configuration . It 's just you need an ontology of the domain and you need the context dependent modules . And if this can be made to work at all , {vocalsound} that 'd be kind of funky .\n",
      "Professor C: Um , it sounds to me like you want P R\nGrad A: P R Ms - uh , PRM I mean , since you can unfold a PRM into a straightforward Bayes - net {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Beca - because it {disfmarker} b because {disfmarker} No , no , you can't . See the {disfmarker} the critical thing about the PRM is it gives these relations in general form . So once you have instantiated the PRM with the instances and ther then you can {disfmarker} then you can unfold it .\n",
      "Grad A: Then you can . Mm - hmm , yeah . No , I was m using it generic . So , uh , probabilistic , whatever , relational models . Whatever you write it . In {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Well , no , but it matters a lot because you {disfmarker} what you want are these generalized rules about the way things relate , th that you then instantiate in each case .\nGrad A: And then {disfmarker} then instantiate them . That 's ma maybe the {disfmarker} the way {disfmarker} the only way it works .\nProfessor C: Yeah , and that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: \nProfessor C: Yeah , that 's the only way it could work . I {disfmarker} we have a {disfmarker} our local expert on P R uh , but my guess is that they 're not currently good enough to do that . But we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll have to see .\nGrad A: But , uh ,\n",
      "Professor C: Uh {disfmarker} Yes . This is {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that would be a good thing to try . It 's related to the Hobbs abduction story in that you th you throw everything into a pot and you try to come up with the , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad A: Except there 's no {disfmarker} no theorem prover involved .\nGrad F: Best explanation .\n",
      "Professor C: No , there isn't a theorem prover but there {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but the , um , The cove the {disfmarker} the P R Ms are like rules of inference and you 're {disfmarker} you 're coupling a bunch of them together .\nGrad A: Mm - hmm , yeah .\n",
      "Professor C: And then ins instead of proving you 're trying to , you know , compute the most likely . Uh {disfmarker} Tricky . But you {disfmarker} yeah , it 's a good {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker} it 's a good thing to put in your thesis proposal .\nGrad A: What 's it ?\nProfessor C: So are you gonna write something for us before you go ?\nGrad A: Yes . Um .\nProfessor C: Oh , you have something .\nGrad A: In the process thereof , or whatever .\n",
      "Professor C: OK . So , what 's {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} when are we gonna meet again ?\nGrad F: When are you leaving ?\nGrad A: Fri - uh ,\nGrad F: Thursday , Friday ?\nGrad A: Thursday 's my last day here .\nGrad D: Fri\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nGrad F: OK .\nGrad A: So {disfmarker} I would suggest as soon as possible . Do you mean by we , the whole ben gang ?\n",
      "Professor C: N no , I didn't mean y just the two of us . We {disfmarker} obviously we can {disfmarker} we can do this . But the question is do you want to , for example , send the little group , uh , a draft of your thesis proposal and get , uh , another session on feedback on that ? Or {disfmarker}\nGrad A: We can do it Th - Thursday again . Yeah .\nGrad E: Fine with me . Should we do the one PM time for Thursday since we were on that before or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad A: Sure .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor C: Alright .\n",
      "Grad D: Hmm .\nGrad A: Thursday at one ? I can also maybe then sort of run through the , uh {disfmarker} the talk I have to give at EML which highlights all of our work .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad A: And we can make some last minute changes on that .\nProfessor C: OK .\nGrad B: You can just give him the abstract that we wrote for the paper .\nProfessor C: That - that 'll tell him exactly what 's going on . Yeah , that {disfmarker} Alright .\nGrad F: Can we do {disfmarker} can we do one - thirty ?\nGrad A: No .\n",
      "Grad F: Oh , you already told me no .\nGrad A: But we can do four .\nGrad F: One , OK , it 's fine . I can do one . It 's fine . It 's fine .\nGrad A: One or four . I don't care .\nGrad E: To me this is equal . I don't care .\nGrad A: If it 's equal for all ? What should we do ?\nGrad F: Yeah , it 's fine .\nGrad A: Four ?\nGrad F: Fine . Yeah {disfmarker} no , no , no , uh , I don't care . It 's fine .\n"
    ],
    "length": 30286,
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  },
  {
    "id": 71,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting started with the tabling of documents, followed by petitions by various members of the house. The petitions included help for groups such as environment-protecting groups seeking assistance from the Government. The meeting then transitioned to statements by its members regarding the current successes and failures of their constituents. Finally, members got to question the ministers on various issues such as scrutiny on spending and providing assistance, financial or otherwise, to groups affected by COVID-19.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to the 20thmeeting of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. As a reminder to all members, in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not be connected to the video conference. I want to remind those who are participating by video conference that, when they talk, they must use the channel that corresponds to the language they are speaking in. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. We are moving on to ministerial announcements. I understand that there are no ministerial announcements today, so we'll move on. We will now move on to document submissions. The honourable minister, Mr. Blair.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Mr. Chair, today I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the 2019 annual report on the RCMPs use of the law enforcement justification provisions. This report addresses the RCMP's use of specified provisions within the law enforcement justification regime, which is set out in subsections 25 to 25 of the Criminal Code. This report also documents the nature of the investigations in which these provisions were used.\nThe Chair: On tabling of documents, we have Minister Sajjan.\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence): Mr. Chair, pursuant to Standing Order 32, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the 2018-19 progress report on Canada's national action plan for the implementation of United Nations Security Council resolutions on women, peace and security.\n",
      "The Chair: Now we'll go to presenting petitions. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during the meeting of a special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. Members who are participating in the meeting in person are kindly asked to bring the signed certificate to the office once the petition has been presented. Presenting petitions, Ms. May.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Mr. Chair, I rise to present two petitions. They both pertain to the protection of our natural world. One is an e-petition, and it relates to the threat to pollinators globally. We know that honey bees and other pollinators are essential to food production. The petitioners note that research from around the world points to a threat to pollinators, particularly from a class of pesticides known as neonicotinoids. The European Union has taken action on this. The petitioners call on the Government of Canada to practise a precautionary principle and remove from use neonicotinoids in Canada to protect our pollinators. The second petition relates to the ongoing threat to the southern resident killer whales. These iconic whales are much beloved in SaanichGulf Islands, throughout coastal British Columbia and indeed across Canada. The petitioners are calling for more action to be taken as the population of southern resident killer whales continues to decline, more action for boat-free safety zones, more prohibitions around whale tourism to make sure that the whales are safe from those who are keen to watch them from too close a distance, and more of a credible enforcement regime to support these measures to keep the southern resident killer whale population in our waters and not on the list of species that have become extinct.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, for over 10 years, members of Parliament from various parties have been trying to pass legislation to deal with the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking. Irwin Cotler, Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Senator Salma Ataullahjan and I have all proposed bills on this. The petitioners want the House to support Bill S-204. This is another bill that would make it a criminal offence for someone to go abroad and receive an organ for which there has not been consent. I'm sure petitioners would want me to add that, given the urgency of this issue, perhaps the government could consider bringing forward a government bill on this issue, which would allow the process to move much faster.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Cannings.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Cannings (South OkanaganWest Kootenay, NDP): Mr. Chair, I rise here today to present a petition from Canadian citizens in support of motion M-1, which was placed in this House by my colleague the member for New WestminsterBurnaby on the green new deal. These citizens point out that climate change has escalated into a global climate emergency and that Canada must act with ambition and urgency. They call on the government to support M-1, a made in Canada green new deal, to take bold and rapid action to adopt socially equitable climate action to tackle the climate emergency and address worsening socio-economic and racial inequalities at the same time while ending fossil fuel subsidies, closing offshore tax havens, and supporting workers impacted by the transition by creating well-paying, unionized jobs in the shift to a clean and renewable energy economy.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Johns.\n",
      "Mr. Gord Johns (CourtenayAlberni, NDP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour and privilege to table e-petition 2577, which was sponsored by Chris Alemany from Port Alberni and is supported by 5,183 petitioners. They're calling on the Government of Canada to work urgently across party lines and in partnership with provincial and territorial governments to implement a guaranteed, consistent, national and livable universal basic income system for all Canadians. The petition is very timely, coming almost one year to the day since the completion of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, which also called on the government to establish a guaranteed annual livable income for all Canadians. Whether it's about providing a safety net to get through a global pandemic, the means to keep your children out of poverty at any time, or simply being able to afford safe housing or transportation, it's time for Canada to have this conversation.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Manly.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour and a privilege to present a petition on behalf of the constituents of NanaimoLadysmith. People are concerned about gas fracking and the use of methane and the destruction that methane causes to our atmosphere and with climate change. They're calling on the government to commit to upholding the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action by immediately halting all existing and planned construction of the Coastal GasLink project on the Wet'suwet'en territory, and by ordering the RCMP to dismantle their exclusion zone and to stand down. They also call on the government to schedule nation-to-nation talks between the Wet'suwet'en nation and the federal and provincial governmentswhich is something that we're happy to see has been happening and I commend the government for that effortand to prioritize the implementation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.\n",
      "The Chair: Next is Mr. Lamoureux.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.): Mr. Chair, like Canada, Guyana is part of the Commonwealth, and many constituents of Winnipeg North have raised the issue with regard to the presidential election back in March, when it was being called into question. There have been some very positive indications in recent days, but the petitioners are asking the Government of Canada, and in fact all members of Parliament, to be aware of what's taking place in Guyana, and as much as possible, to be advocates for democracy and make sure that we're being diligent in supporting what the people of Guyana want to see.\n",
      "The Chair: I just want to remind the honourable members, when presenting petitions, to be as concise as possible. I notice they're starting to stretch a bit and it's something we all tend to do. Now we'll go to Statements by Members. The first statement will be from Mr. Lefebvre.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Lefebvre (Sudbury, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I just want to say thank you to the industrious people of Sudbury who have risen to the challenge and joined forces in the face of COVID-19. I am proud of all my constituents, and all Canadians, including first responders, volunteers, health care and essential workers, local miners, the farmers and produce growers who are feeding our families, and local businesses who are staying connected with their staff. I also salute all our homegrown innovations such as ProStitch and King Sportswear face masks; Crosscut Distillery hand sanitizer; Nobel Prize winner SNOLAB's work on ventilators, which earned a federal contract; Vale Canada's $1 million in seed capital to small firms developing COVID-19 health solutions; and many more.  We are all in the same boat, but we will get out of it together.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Dalton.\n",
      "Mr. Marc Dalton (Pitt MeadowsMaple Ridge, CPC): Mr. Chair, Pitt Meadows is one of Canada's most beautiful communities. It's tucked in between the Fraser and Pitt rivers and is in the shadow of Golden Ears mountain. Most of the area consists of farmland, golf courses, parks and conservation areas. It also has Pitt Lake, which is among the largest freshwater tidal lakes in the world. Pitt Meadows' history dates back thousands of years with Katzie First Nation. In the 1900s Dutch immigrants drained and diked the marshes allowing for today's bumper crops of cranberries and blueberries. It's hard to believe that this community is only a short commute to Vancouver and has one of the nation's busiest general aviation airports. Last weekend the community came together to celebrate Pitt Meadows Day a little differently because of COVID. In a great show of community spirit, from their front yards and balconies, thousands of residents came out to cheer for first responders and essential workers as we paraded throughout the city. I am thankful to have raised my family here, taught in the schools and to now be the member of Parliament representing this wonderful community.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Kelloway.\n",
      "Mr. Mike Kelloway (Cape BretonCanso, Lib.): Mr. Chair, over the last few months I have watched constituents in my riding come together to look out for one another during these challenging times. Regardless of how deep and painful this pandemic has been, it continues to amaze me just how brightly the collective character of Cape BretonCanso shines through. Whether it is someone like Glen Muise, who delivers iPads to seniors' homes so they can connect with loved ones, teachers who deliver meals to students in need, Liam and Lucus Sakalauskas, two young boys who keep youth informed across the east coast, or Rose Fitzgerald, who delivered bouquets made from the remaining flowers from her shop to essential workers across her county, constituents in Cape BretonCanso have stepped up to support their community and to support those in need. Mr. Chair, as you know it is with great pride that I represent my constituents in Cape BretonCanso. The people in Cape Breton and northeastern Nova Scotia care deeply about one another. They know that as a community, we're only as strong as our most vulnerable people, and I cannot help but be filled with joy when I see these gestures happening across my riding. Thanks so much.\n",
      "The Chair: Ms. Brub, go ahead.\n",
      "Ms. Sylvie Brub (AbitibiBaie-JamesNunavikEeyou, BQ): Mr.Chair, unacceptable incidents of police brutality against aboriginals have prompted former member Romeo Saganash, whose commitment I commend, to call for a commission of inquiry similar to the Viens commission in Quebec. The Bloc is open to the idea, but we shouldn't wait for such an inquiry to be recommended to take action. There are already potential solutions for taking action. Commissions have been issuing reports for decades, and Ottawa has been tabling them. Last year alone, the Viens report and the report stemming from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls contained dozens of recommendations. The federal government must work with indigenous peoples, Quebec and the provinces to establish adequate funding for indigenous police forces. Civilian ethics organizations should be created to oversee the RCMP. Police officers and the general population must be better educated on indigenous realities and cultures. Hundreds of pages must be written and actions taken to restore confidence in law enforcement so as to achieve the long-overdue reconciliation. Let's take action.\n",
      "The Chair: I give the floor to Mr.MacKinnon.\n",
      "Mr. Steven MacKinnon (Gatineau, Lib.): Mr.Chair, on behalf of myself and my parliamentary colleagues, I want to congratulate students from our high school class of 2020. We know that, owing to the pandemic, graduation celebrations will be different this year, as students will be deprived of their prom, their graduation ceremony and, in some cases, their goodbyes to friends and teachers. I know how disappointed students from the high schools of duVersant, LeCarrefour, Nicolas-Gatineau, de l'rablire, Collge Saint-Alexandre, Collge Nouvelles Frontires, Collge Saint-Joseph, Philemon-Wright and other regional schools, are not to be able to celebrate their five years of incredible efforts surrounded by their families and friends who were by their side on a daily basis. However, that takes nothing away from their accomplishment. So when they receive their diploma, here is what I will say to them: Surge ahead! The future belongs to you. Be ambitious, follow your dreams and, most importantly, continue to change the Outaouais and the world! The class of 2020 will be remembered for a long time.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Morantz.\n",
      "Mr. Marty Morantz (CharleswoodSt. JamesAssiniboiaHeadingley, CPC): Mr. Chair, I am delighted to rise to talk about the Bruce Oake Recovery Centre, which is now under construction in my riding in Winnipeg. This state-of-the-art addictions recovery facility was made into a reality by Scott, Anne and Darcy Oake in memory of their son and brother Bruce, who passed away tragically from an accidental overdose in 2011. The Bruce Oake Recovery Centre will provide help to thousands of Manitobans to manage their addiction and reintegrate into the community. I was proud to support this project when I voted for it during my time on Winnipeg City Council. The addictions crisis in Canada needs action. With approximately eight million Canadians suffering from addictions, we need centres like these to help them recover so that no other family will face a heartbreaking loss due to addiction. I want to congratulate the Oakes for their commitment to making recovery for many a reality. Addictions affect us all, and we all have a part to play in contributing to the solution.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Jowhari.\n",
      "Mr. Majid Jowhari (Richmond Hill, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I would like to recognize the compassion and generosity demonstrated in my riding of Richmond Hill. Week after week residents and organizations have come together to support our most vulnerable during a time of great difficulty. I want to thank the champions of the community who were generous enough to donate masks and other supplies as well as services. I would also like to recognize the charities and care centres which, upon receiving these donations, redoubled their efforts to serve their communities. Special thanks go to the Mon Sheong Foundation Long-Term Care Centre, Divine Favour Senior Homecare, the Community & Home Assistance to Seniors, the True Compassion Home Health centre, Blue Door, the Mosaic Interfaith Out of the Cold program, Yellow Brick House, Hill House Hospice, Community Living York South, and Parya Trillium Foundation for continuing to support the residents in my riding of Richmond Hill. The compassionate generosity demonstrated by these donors and organizations makes me proud to represent my community in Parliament.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Madam Lalonde.\n",
      "Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde (Orlans, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Usually, at this time of the year, I have the pleasure of being invited to the graduation ceremony of the grade12 students in Orlans. However, we will all have to adapt to a new reality this year. I cannot express enough how, in these exceptional times, I have witnessed the strength, resilience and community spirit of our graduates. I also know that a number of high schools have made significant efforts to celebrate the success of their graduating class. Young graduate Maryanne Collard was amazed to see that people from her school, the cole secondaire catholique Batrice-Desloges, had installed a sign in her garden to congratulate her on her academic success.  As we move forward we must not forget that youth in this country are our future. We have a responsibility to be there for them and to believe in them. We will not fail.  I thank the teachers, the support staff and school management who are continuing to do their work. Congratulations to all graduates of 2020.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Vis.\n",
      "Mr. Brad Vis (MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon, CPC): Mr. Chair, COVID-19 has changed and challenged how we go about our daily lives. For many this includes a shift to working from home or attending school remotely. The sad reality is that even before the crisis hit, most rural Canadians simply did not have access to a strong and stable Internet connection, even though Internet is an essential service. Those in underserved areas, including many parts of MissionMatsquiFraser Canyon, cannot work from home and their children cannot keep up with their classmates. For many of my indigenous constituents, Internet services are stuck in the 1990s because telecom companies don't want to serve them. I, along with my colleagues, launched community consultations to address this critical issue and provide solutions. We call on the government to outline and implement a concrete action plan to address Internet connectivity deficits between rural and urban Canada. This is an issue I will continue to press on until results are achieved.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. McLeod.\n",
      "Mr. Michael McLeod (Northwest Territories, Lib.): Mr. Chair, Canada has been awarded its first-ever Equator Prize from the United Nations Development Programme. Congratulations go to Lutsl K' Dene First Nation and the Northwest Territory Mtis Nation, with support from Deninu K'ue First Nation and the Yellowknives Dene First Nation, for the establishment of the Thaidene Nn territorial protected area. It's 14,000 square kilometres of the most beautiful land and waters you'll find anywhere on earth. I would also like to thank the previous minister of the environment for securing Canada's $7.9-million commitment, along with our visit to celebrate the new park last year. The award is given to groups that have exemplified actions to protect critical ecosystems and biodiversity for generations to come and to show how indigenous peoples and local communities have confronted legacies of disadvantage and discrimination in support of their communities and the world at large. Congratulations to Lutsl K'.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Falk.\n",
      "Mrs. Rosemarie Falk (BattlefordsLloydminster, CPC): Mr. Chair, the Liberal government has tabled $87 billion in spending and allocated just four hours for Parliament to study, debate and pass it. The allocated time is wholly inadequate. Canadians deserve to know how that money is being spent. They deserve to know that this government spending was scrutinized and passed through the rigours of Parliament. It is Canadian taxpayers of today and tomorrow who will have the responsibility to pay for this government's spending. It is Canadian workers and businesses who will have to do the hard work of rebuilding our economy. It is real Canadians who fall through the cracks when this Liberal government's programs fail to meet their intended goals. A rubber stamp under the guise of health and safety is not democracy. Canadians are owed better. Just as we gather four days a week for a hybrid committee meeting, parliamentarians can gather to do the full scope of the work that Canadians elected us to do.\n",
      "The Chair: We now go to Mr. Godin.\n",
      "Mr. Jol Godin (PortneufJacques-Cartier, CPC): Thank you, Mr.Chair. Our planet is dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic. Our daily lives have been turned upside down. I am thinking of you, our seniors, valuable individuals who built our country. You have gone through a very restrictive confinement. You have had to sacrifice time spent with your families. Our students also had to adapt. Their school year was turned on its head. Our graduating class, especially, saw their dream of a proper graduation vanish. The future belongs to them. They must follow their dreams. I want to say to all the essential staff and the many support organizations that they are really changing things. We have all taken on our important responsibility, that of following the guidelines. The results have been most compelling in my riding. I want to say how proud I am to represent you here, in the Canadian Parliament. I thank each and everyone of you. You are helping PortneufJacques-Cartier flourish. You have shown resilience, creativity, innovation and solidarity. That is commendable. Together, we will get through this ordeal and come out stronger.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Gazan.\n",
      "Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Chair, today I rise to honour Justice 4 Black Lives Winnipeg, led by women and non-binary individuals, who stood together and mobilized our city to state clearly that we will not stand by and stay silent in the face of police brutality. We will not stand by in the face of systemic racism. We will not stand by while we witness our bodies being abused by centuries of racism supported through legislation that has left us vulnerable at the hands of those who abuse their power. We will speak out against police violence. We will speak out against systemic racism. We will join together to ensure that laws are instituted that are designed to protect us, not abuse us. We will call out those who abuse their power. We will rise. We will rise. We will rise. To all the women and non-binary folks who are standing, I say, let's continue to sound our voices in solidarity and support of one another until indigenous and black lives are honoured and respected. Our liberation is intertwined. Solidarity.\n",
      "The Chair: Mrs.DeBellefeuille, go ahead.\n",
      "Mrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (SalaberrySurot, BQ): Mr.Chair, this is not the time for governments to get complacent about COVID-19. However, the last few days have shown that we are once again dealing with a reckless Prime Minister. First, he locked down Parliament to avoid being accountable to the opposition, while the economic recovery must be prepared. He is refusing to provide an economic update, even though the Parliamentary Budget Officer is calling for it. We need to know how much flexibility we have in case of a second wave of the pandemic. He is refusing to hold a first ministers meeting on unconditional health transfers. The increase Quebec needs is for hiring health care staff before a second wave, and not after it. Finally, today, he is refusing to negotiate with any party to get his bill passed. He is behaving as if he had a majority government. This is not a time for recklessness. Governing means anticipating. I am asking the Prime Minister to pull himself together.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Uppal.\n",
      "Hon. Tim Uppal (Edmonton Mill Woods, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise to give thanks and recognition to the contributions of many businesses and organizations across my riding of Edmonton Mill Woods that have stepped up in a major way during this pandemic. I joined my friends in the Filipino community who partnered with Mill Woods' Calvary Community Church to deliver care packages to seniors. Varinder Bhullar and his Green Scholars of Alberta team and Dil-E-Punjab restaurant provided thousands of free meals. Sikh Youth Edmonton delivered free groceries to families, seniors and students. Edmonton Towing and its full team with Dukh Nivaran Gudwara prepared food packages for any truckers who were coming through Edmonton. The Bhartiya Cultural Society Hindu temple provided free meals to anyone who needed them. Punjab Insurance and The Punjab chain of restaurants provided free meals in downtown Edmonton. The staff, nurses and doctors of Grey Nuns Community Hospital in the heart of Mill Woods have been keeping people safe and healthy. I want to thank our Mill Woods community as a whole for its continued strength, resilience and compassion as we move forward together.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now proceed to Mr. Fonseca.\n",
      "Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga EastCooksville, Lib.): Mr. Chair, today is Portugal Day, celebrated both in Portugal and around the world by Portuguese. In Canada, June has been recognized as Portuguese Heritage Month. We're truly happy to recognize the great contributions made by Canadians of Portuguese descent. This year is a difficult one, though, for all of us, including our Portuguese diaspora community across the globe that is deeply affected by the COVID situation. Our prayers and well wishes are with everyone. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank our luso community of over half a million members in Canada from coast to coast for staying strong during these difficult times. Your warmth, hard work and team spirit resonate well across my riding of Mississauga EastCooksville and globally. As a Portuguese immigrant who came to Canada at the age of two with my family, I know this year will be a lot different from previous years. I encourage all of you to stay safe and enjoy a Portuguese meal, and please continue to support our local businesses. \n",
      "The Chair: We now begin the period of questions for ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings twice in order to allow employees who provide support for sitting to substitute each other very safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.\nHon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister is doing everything to avoid being accountable to Canadians. He is refusing to table a budget, refusing to provide an economic update and refusing to let the House of Commons do its work. Will he at least provide the Auditor General with the additional funding she needs to look into government expenditures?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister): Mr.Chair, not only are we introducing a bill this afternoon to help Canadians with the Canada emergency response benefit and those living with disabilities, but we are also proposing to the opposition parties that we hold a debate and a vote on that. I hope the opposition parties will allow a vote and a debate in the House on this important bill.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister wants parliamentarians to vote on aspects of the government's spending. We want the Auditor General to be able to examine that government spending. Under the government, the Auditor General has had to do more with less, and her ability to conduct audits is being affected. The Auditor General has indicated that she will be able to do half as many audits, despite an almost doubling in the size of government spending. I have a simple question. Will the Prime Minister give the Auditor General the money she needs to do her job, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we worked with the Auditor General to increase the funding of the Auditor General's office in 2018-19, and the equivalent of 38 full-time staff were added. We support the Auditor General, unlike the Conservative government, which fired 60 people from the Auditor General's office. We are now proposing that we sit down to debate legislation this afternoon, and I certainly hope that members opposite will vote for debate.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: The Prime Minister is again engaged in revisionist history. He well knows that it was the Auditor General's office that volunteered to make administrative efficiencies, which did not affect its ability to do the job. In fact, as the interim auditor general, John Wiersema, said, We would not have proposed if we didnt think it was the right thing to do and that wed be able to carry out our role for Parliament. Only the government's refusal to grant that extra funding is hampering the Auditor General's ability to give Canadians the answers they deserve, and we wonder why. This is the government that cannot explain where 20,000 infrastructure projects went and where five billion dollars' worth of supposed infrastructure investments have gone. They can't identify that. Then there is, of course, the $35-billion Infrastructure Bank, which has completed precisely zero projects. Are these the reasons the Prime Minister is so intent on withholding funds from the Auditor General?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, talking of revisionist history, Stephen Harper's Conservatives cut $6.5 million from the Auditor General's budget and fired 60 staff. On the contrary, we worked with the Auditor General's office and increased its funding and added the equivalent of 38 new full-time staff. We will continue to demonstrate openness and transparency. We will continue to respect the officers of Parliament, whom the Conservatives, in their time in office, showed no respect for. We will continue to move forward in a way that has led, for example, to proposing debate and voting on important legislation this afternoon to help Canadians. The Conservatives don't seem to want that debate or vote.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, it's no surprise that the Prime Minister likes to reach back into history from before the 2015 election to justify his position. The 2015 election was the only time he got more votes than the Conservative Party did, so I understand why he likes to live in the past. In May, the interim auditor general said, Ten years ago, we were completing about 27 performance audits every year. With our current resources, we expect to be able to deliver 14 performance audits each year. That's half the number of audits, despite a massive explosion in government spending. The Auditor General's office has requested more funds to be able to do the job that Canadians expect to be done. Will the Prime Minister give those additional funds to the Auditor General's office, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we very much look forward to working with the new Auditor General to ensure that her office has the ability to continue the important audits and transparency measures that are foundational to our institutions. Speaking of what is foundational to our institutions, this afternoon we're putting forward a bill that would help Canadians across the country, and we've proposed to debate and vote on that bill. It actually looks like the Conservatives and other opposition parties might not want this. They have been complaining about not having debates and votes in Parliament, and now they're proposing not to have them. That's a little head-scratching. We hope they're going to help Canadians.\n",
      "The Chair: We will continue with Mr.Blanchet.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. We may have a chance here to replace a problem with a good opportunity. This morning, we heard many groups and organizations that represent people with a disability express their concerns over the bill introduced by the government, which I feel is chocolate pudding containing cod liver oil. We agree with the chocolate pudding. We are favourable to helping people with a disability. People don't know the rules. They don't knowI am telling them nowthat a bill can be divided. It can be cut into parts and voted on in parts. The rest of the bill can be enhanced. I am saying to the Prime Minister that, if he presents the part on disabled individuals, it will be passed at the speed of light. He won't even see it happen. Is he prepared to divide the bill, so that we can work together to help people with a disability?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: The bill that we are proposing this afternoon will certainly help people living with disabilities. We can always recognize that this is important, and every party should be open to it. We will also increase the flexibility of the Canada emergency response benefit from four-week intervals to two weeks. We will also expand the scope of the wage subsidy so that more businesses will have access to it. I am always willing to work with members of the opposition to ensure that we adopt these measures, all or some of the measures. We want to help Canadians. We look forward to debating and voting on this later today.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: It is a glorious day. I heard all or some of the measures. That means that we are not adopting them all at the same time and that the bill is being split. Can the Prime Minister confirm that he is in fact going to split his bill so that we can address the various components separately, since they have nothing to do with each other, and improve them, in keeping with our mandate as elected officials?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Our goal on this side of the House, and it is shared by all members of the House, is to help Canadians during the pandemic. We have put forward a number of measures that will help Canadians in a tangible way. Yes, that includes Canadians living with disabilities, but it also includes businesses that cannot, but should be able to, access the wage subsidy. In addition, we are going to make the Canada emergency response benefit more flexible. I look forward to continuing the discussions\nThe Chair: Mr.Blanchet has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: We almost had some clarity, but one swallow does not make a summer. Yes, there is a need for discussions on the Canada emergency response benefit. The government says that it wants to transform the program into something very coercive, without admitting that the lack of an employment incentive has essentially sabotaged another program, the wage subsidy. That deserves some thought. That is what we are elected to do. We do not need to spend eight months on this, we can fix it in a few hours. When the government says that we are going to have to vote on this, it means rubber stamping its bill. We have the right to debate it, to have discussions and to improve it. I watched the election on the night of October21. It was a beautiful night. It was more fun than a hockey game. People elected a minority government. Can the government admit that?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We are not proposing only to vote on this bill this afternoon, we are proposing to debate it. It is the role and responsibility of all of us in the House to exchange ideas and to work together to help Canadians. That is exactly what we are proposing this afternoon. It is about helping people with disabilities, increasing the flexibility of the CERB, and expanding the scope of the wage subsidy so that more businesses have access to it. I look forward to debating this with my colleagues opposite.\nThe Chair: Mr.Blanchet, you have 43seconds left.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: That will be enough. I would be remiss if I allowed the Prime Minister to mislead people quite unintentionallyI say this in accordance with the Standing Orders. When we introduce a bill, we discuss it at second reading, we vote, we continue to discuss it and we send it to committee. All that can be done very quickly. However, we must be able to amend and improve this bill. That is how the normal Parliament works. The government doesn't like being in a minority situation. It behaves as if it were a majority government, but it is not. Can we follow the real procedures of Parliament, do a proper job, and then have a vote that is likely to suit the majority of members, not just the Prime Minister?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, my hon. colleague seems to completely forget that we are going through a pandemic. The COVID-19 crisis requires different actions on our part. That is why we provided the text of the bill to the opposition parties four days ago. We have been working with them for hours over the past three or four days to amend the bill, if they had amendments to propose. That is how we are taking action to help Canadians quickly during this crisis, and that is what we will continue to do.\nThe Chair: Mr.Singh, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Mr.Chair, will the Prime Minister make a clear and direct commitment today to extend the CERB for families who need it?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we are introducing legislation this afternoon that will directly help Canadians living with disabilities, will expand the scope of the wage subsidy and will increase the flexibility of the Canada emergency response benefit. We hope to be able to debate it.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Will the Prime Minister extend the CERB for families in need, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: As I said, Mr. Chair, discussions are ongoing on that, but I can assure Canadians we will continue to be there for them and support them, as we have been.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, a family that needs to buy groceries can't take those pretty words and buy groceries with them. We're asking the Prime Minister to extend the CERB for families in need. Will the Prime Minister do that, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, as I said, we will continue to be there for Canadians in the right way. We are engaged with stakeholders, with opposition parties and with Canadians to ensure that we continue to support them the way they need to be supported.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, I can tell you what the right way is. Don from Burnaby sent me a note saying he's an arts worker and there is no forecast for his job to be reopened. He is now dependent on the CERB. He wants to go back to work, but there's no work. He sent an email saying he's faced with a grim realityhis wordsand he's frightened that if the CERB runs out, and it is planned to run out at the end of this month, then he will have no way to afford to make ends meet. Will the Prime Minister extend the CERB so Don does not have to live in fear?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, as I said, and as we have been saying from the beginning, we will continue to be there to support Canadians who need it. The member opposite is not actually looking at the fact that we are proposing three significant helps for Canadians this afternoon. We are proposing to help Canadians with disabilities, to expand the wage subsidy for more businesses and to create flexibility for the CERB. He doesn't even want to debate those things. He doesn't even want to be voting on them. Will the NDP allow us to move forward on these important measures for Canadians?\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, let's talk about those measures. One of the things we asked the government to do five weeks ago was to bring in help for Canadians living with disabilities. Now the government's plan is only going to help 40% of Canadians living with disabilities. Will the government commit to helping all Canadians living with disabilities and propose a plan that will do so?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the NDP leader seems to have decided that rather than help 40%, or a significant portion, of people with disabilities, he wants to help none of them, because he's not going to allow the debate to move forward on this bill. That's unfortunate. We're always happy to look at how we can do more. We have demonstrated from the beginning that we want to do more for Canadians. I look forward to working with the NDP. I am hoping those members change their minds and allow us to have an important debate this afternoon.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, I appreciate that the Prime Minister accepts that his plan only helps 40% of Canadians living with disabilities. Let's talk about the 60% who aren't being helped. They are veterans living with disabilities, those who receive CPP and those who receive disability payments. Often it's the poorest of Canadians living with disabilities who won't be helped with the plan the government is proposing. Will the government help all Canadians living with disabilities?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, our proposal will help 100% of Canadians who receive the disability tax credit, including many veterans. The fact is that we are there to support the disability community. We are there to support Canadians with disabilities. Why is the NDP not allowing us to move forward on debating and voting on this important legislation?\nThe Chair: Mr. Singh, we have 43 seconds for a question and an answer.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, that's the exact problem with the Liberal proposal. It's a tax credit approach, which excludes the vast majority of Canadians living with disabilities. That is the wrong approach. We made it very clear that if the government extends the CERB, if it ensures there are no penalties on those who are desperately in need of help and if it helps all Canadians living with disabilities, we will move forward. Will the government do that?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, as I have said from the beginning, we look forward to continuing to work with the members opposite to keep moving forward to help Canadians. However, we need the opposition parties to actually choose to help Canadians and not to play political games. I hope we're going to be able to actually have a debate and a vote on this important legislation this afternoon.\nThe Chair: We're now going to take a short pause to allow staff to change up in a safe way respecting COVID-19 procedure. The floor now goes to Mr. Rayes.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes (RichmondArthabaska, CPC): Mr.Chair, can the Prime Minister tell us whether we will have an economic update by the end of June?\nHon. Bill Morneau (Minister of Finance): Mr.Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for his question. It is of course very important to be transparent. When the situation is stable, we will have\nThe Chair: Once again, the floor goes to Mr.Rayes.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: Mr.Chair, most of the provinces in Canada are working on tabling economic updates by the end of June. Why is the Liberal government unable to do so as well?\nHon. Bill Morneau: I understand the importance of transparency and that is why we are trying every day to explain our investments to Canadians and to continue to be transparent with them.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: The Liberal government announced hundreds of billions of dollars in new spending during the pandemic, but it still refuses to provide an economic update in order to be transparent with Canadians. In times of crisis, monitoring the situation is more important than ever. I repeat my question: why does this government not want to table an economic update by the end of June, when the provinces are doing so?\nHon. Bill Morneau: Every day, we explain the economic situation, our investments, the changes we are making, and our programs to improve the situation of Canadians during the pandemic. We will continue our approach to being transparent.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: The Parliamentary Budget Officer himself does not understand why the federal government cannot deliver an economic update when the provinces can. Why are the government and the minister defying the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who is an independent officer and is requesting an economic update?\nHon. Bill Morneau: We will continue with our approach, which is one of transparency. We know that it's very difficult to make projections given the very dynamic nature of the situation. We think our approach of providing information daily is appropriate and we will continue to be transparent about our investments.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: That is incredible. When we listen to the minister and the Prime Minister talk, you would think we were in the pesky terrible twos phase that children go through, when they keep saying no, no, no. I find it funny that the provinces are able to table an economic update in a crisis situation. The opposition parties are asking for it, as are experts and officials. When the time comes for the government to listen to the scientists, it has no problem doing so. However, if people do not think like the government, it ignores them. The provinces are doing it, the opposition parties are calling for it and the Parliamentary Budget Officer is calling for it. Why will the Minister of Finance not table an economic update so that all members of Parliament can do their verification work?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: I will continue to provide daily information on our measures and investments. Projections are clearly very difficult to make. However, when the situation is more stable, we will be able to provide more information to Canadians. In the meantime, we will be adapting to the situation on a daily basis and making sure that we have the information we need to make our decisions and to make sure that Canadians understand our situation.\nThe Chair: Mr.Rayes, you have 45seconds left.\n",
      "Mr. Alain Rayes: Mr.Chair, one month ago, the Prime Minister announced with great fanfare that the eligibility criteria for the $40,000emergency loans for businesses would be more flexible to help self-employed entrepreneurs and businesses that pay themselves dividends to have access to them. However, as of todayit has been four weeks since that announcementbusinesses are still banging their heads on the doors of their financial institutions. They do not have access to the information because it is not available on official websites. In addition, even senior officials confirmed to me during a technical call on June2, last Tuesday, that this information would not be available for several weeks. Can the Minister of Finance, who says he wants to act quickly to help our businesses, explain why, after four weeks, it is still not possible to get the information the Prime Minister promised us from his doorstep?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance): Since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, we have been listening and responding to small businesses and entrepreneurs across the country. In fact, we have even announced the expansion of the program's eligibility criteria to include many owner-managed small businesses with payrolls of less than$20,000. The new criteria have forced financial institutions to adapt to be able to provide this program to new applicants. We are working around the clock to ensure that we are able to promptly provide small businesses across the country with the assistance they need.\nThe Chair: We will now proceed to Mr. Allison.\n",
      "Mr. Dean Allison (Niagara West, CPC): Mr. Chair, Canada's unemployment rate stands at 13.7%. That's the highest it's been in almost four decades. Many industries, like travel, hospitality and tourism, are getting crushed. We rely on a lot of hospitality and tourism in my riding of Niagara West. Can the government tell us what their plans are to help the travel, hospitality and tourism industry that so many of my constituents depend on?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages): Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his important question. I had a good conversation with the mayor of Niagara Falls recently, and we believe in the importance of the tourism sector. That's exactly why we've extended the wage subsidy until the end of August. There is the CEBA loan, the $40,000 loan. There is also spending through FedDev in my colleague's region. If he has clear, specific projects in the tourism sector that he needs help with, I would ask that he please come and see me and have a conversation.\n",
      "Mr. Dean Allison: Mr. Chair, the message from the president and CEO of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, Perrin Beatty, and also other industries, is that we need a clear and coherent plan from this government because there's a whole hodgepodge of regulations and confusion about what's going to happen through the strategy. What I've told the government is that we need a strategy to reflect local conditions that is consistent and has a clear timeline so that businesses can begin to open safely and with confidence. What is the government doing to make this happen?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Morneau: Mr. Chair, we absolutely agree. It is important for businesses to have an understanding of the programs that we've put in place. We have been consulting with businesses on the appropriate way to extend the wage subsidy so that we can continue to support businesses as they turn towards a safe restart. We've also looked very carefully at how we can ensure that the programs that we've put forward\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Allison.\n",
      "Mr. Dean Allison: Mr. Chair, this government has come way short of meeting the Canadian demand for personal protective equipment. Some equipment procured from overseas has been substandard and couldn't be used. Because of the shortage, in my riding of Niagara West, dentists have to pay up to 10 times the amount for an N95 mask. Compared to early March, when will the government finally begin to produce enough PPE in Canada to meet Canadian demand?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains (Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry): Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for his question. We have mobilized over 700 Canadian companies to help them retool and rescale their efforts to make more personal protective equipment in Canada as part of a made-in-Canada initiative. We're going to continue to work with industry to build up domestic capacity.\n",
      "Mr. Dean Allison: Global News is reporting that Canada is struggling to secure a reliable source of PPE. What's the evidence of this? We know that the government procured 10 million substandard N95 masks that couldn't be used. Masks were sent back to suppliers for having flaws. We received mouldy swabs to be used in COVID-19 tests. Planes are arriving empty that should have been filled with PPE, and we received less than 5% of our total order of gloves. It's clear that Canada needs to rely on Canada for PPE. When will this government finally begin to take PPE equipment issues seriously and make enough in Canada to meet demands by Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement): Mr. Chair, the honourable member's questions were tainted with inaccuracies. Regarding the flights that returned from China without federal cargo, Air Canada did reimburse the federal government for that amount. In addition, with regard to the N95 masks that were referenced, the Government of Canada will not pay for masks that it does not use. Furthermore, as my colleague Minister Bains just stated, we are mobilizing and retooling the domestic industry. Over half of the face shields that we have received were produced in Canada.\n",
      "Mr. Dean Allison: At a time when the Prime Minister has ordered Canadians to stay home and businesses to remain closed, at a time when Canadians have had to say goodbye to their relatives over Skype, at a time when Canadians are not allowed to get married, at a time when Canadians are being fined for taking their kids to the park, at a time when restaurants are being fined $800 for allowing customers to eat outside and not being socially distanced, in these times, the Prime Minister's son attended a mass gathering with thousands of people while not socially distancing. Mr. Chair, why is it that there seems to be one set of rules in this country for some people but a different set for the Prime Minister? Why the double standard?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): Mr. Chair, as the member knows, this country has been gripped with the need to stand up with one another to fight the experience of racism that so many Canadians live with and that so many of our American cousins live with. As the member knows, local public health sets advice for regions that he specified, and I would encourage all Canadians to check with local public health advice before they resume activities.\nThe Chair: Now we'll go to Mr. Chiu.\n",
      "Mr. Kenny Chiu (StevestonRichmond East, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Many Canadian veterans are noticing that medical providers are increasing their costs. Everything is more expensive these days, including medicine, etc. It can take upwards of a year for Veterans Affairs to adjust their rate scale to compensate, and they do not allow for retroactive reimbursement. What are the government's actions to alleviate this hardship for our men and women who stood guard for this country, our veterans?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs): Mr. Chair, the fact is that when we inherited the government, Veterans Affairs needed a lot of support from government. In fact, at that time, we invested $10 billion to make sure that Veterans Affairs was put in place and that we could provide the appropriate supports for veterans, like the pension for life, the centre of excellence on PTSD and the chronic pain centre of excellence. All of these things are so important. We have to realize that with government previously\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Chiu.\n",
      "Mr. Kenny Chiu: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Minister, for answeringor respondingto my question, although that really did not provide an answer, in my humble opinion. Part of the side effect of spending hundreds of millions of dollars is inflation. My constituents in StevestonRichmond East are overwhelmingly finding this government's support for seniors inadequate. The opposition has put forward clear proposals, such as a one-time tax-free withdrawal being allowed for an RRSP or a RRIF. So far, the government has not taken any action on this. Why is the government ignoring suggestions to help Canadian seniors?\n",
      "Hon. Deb Schulte (Minister of Seniors): Mr. Chair, I want seniors to know that they are not alone. To help preserve their registered retirement income fund assets, we are reducing minimum withdrawals by 25% for 2020. We're also providing direct financial support so that seniors can get the help they need now. As the market is volatile during this time, we continue to look at all ways that we can best help seniors during this difficult time.\n",
      "Mr. Kenny Chiu: Mr. Chair, the Hong Kong government has arrested 9,000 civilians just in the past year. This is equivalent to the arrest of 42,000 people, proportional to Canada's population. It is anticipated that more unjust incarcerations will occur as Beijing imposes the national security law in Hong Kong. Has our government started preparing a list of names for Magnitsky-style sanctions, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau (Minister of Transport): Mr. Chair, as we have said, we and our allies are deeply concerned with Beijing's decision to impose a national security law on Hong Kong. With hundreds of thousands of Canadians living in Hong Kong, we have a vested interest in its stability and prosperity, the foundations of which are Hong Kong's relative autonomy and basic freedoms. The proposed law would also undermine the one country, two systems framework.\n",
      "Mr. Kenny Chiu: I thank the minister for responding. Again, however, words are not enough. It's time for action, because the Chinese embassy has said, in response to Canada's expressed concern, that they deplore, reject and condemn our response and our concerns thus far. What are the conditions for this government using Magnitsky sanctions should China continue to incarcerate Canadians and jeopardize the human rights of its citizens?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, we have been very clear. We will continue to encourage all parties to engage in peaceful and meaningful dialogue to address the legitimate concerns expressed by the Hong Kong population. Canada will always support and promote freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of the press around the world.\nThe Chair: Mr. Chiu, we have about 22 seconds, so you have time for a very quick question and hopefully a very quick answer.\n",
      "Mr. Kenny Chiu: Okay, here's a quick question. The Communist Chinese government has lied about COVID-19. They have issued statements against Canada and they have yet to release the two Canadians being held hostage. My constituents are concerned over this. When will this government listen to Canadians and call for a stronger, more effective and truly independent international investigation into COVID-19's origin?\nThe Chair: The honourable minister has 22 seconds or less, please.\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: Mr. Chair, we are dealing with a global pandemic, COVID-19. It is critically important that all countries in the world work together in a transparent, open and respectful manner so that we understand what is going on and how we can bring it to an end as quickly as possible.\nThe Chair: The next question will come from Ms. Gallant.\n",
      "Mrs. Cheryl Gallant (RenfrewNipissingPembroke, CPC): Mr. Chair, if the government orders someone who has been exposed to a confirmed COVID case into a 14-day quarantine, why won't the government allow them to take an antibody test to lift the quarantine so they can go back to work?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: As the member opposite may or may not know, testing strategies are determined by provinces and territories. Furthermore, the testing of a particular person has to be done at the right point in time\nThe Chair: We go back to Ms. Gallant.\n",
      "Mrs. Cheryl Gallant: Mr. Chair, there have already been some tests that have been approved. My friend and colleague here, Colin Carrie, from the constituency of Oshawa, has a constituent who has a test. It's 90% accurate and it's being sold to the United States and other countries. Why won't they provide a DIN number to it so that Canadians have access to it as well, regardless of which province or territory they live in?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I think the member is talking about two separate things. Any test kit that would be approved by Health Canada would be accessible to wherever that company chose to market that test kit. Furthermore, it's really important that test kits that are approved by Health Canada be accurate and have been tested with rigour with regard to their ability to provide credible and accurate information to the people who are using that test.\nMrs. Cheryl Gallant: Mr. Chair, the test has proven to have an accuracy rate of 90% in identifying whether or not an individual has antibodies. Why won't she allow it to be used here?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I am happy to follow up with the member opposite's office when she is able to provide me with the name of the company. As you can imagine, there are many vendors trying to\nThe Chair: We go back to Ms. Gallant.\nMrs. Cheryl Gallant: How long will it take for an antibody test to be approved by this government once you have the name of the company and the test and the evidence in front of you?\nThe Chair: Before we go to the honourable minister, I just want to remind the honourable members to place their questions through the chair and not directly. Go ahead, Minister.\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: We have an expedited process that could be completed in as little as five to seven days, depending on the accuracy of the test and the information supplied by the vendor.\nMrs. Cheryl Gallant: Through you, Mr. Chair, will Health Canada use reputable data from other countries to speed their determinations about antibody effectiveness, or just continue to withhold access?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Canadians expect us, at Health Canada, to ensure the accuracy and the safety of all equipment approved for use in Canada.\n",
      "Mrs. Cheryl Gallant: Mr. Chairman, if the minister can approve tests and studies within five days, why is it taking over 30, over 60, or over 90 days to approve an antibody test that exists?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: I appreciate the member opposite's interest in urgent and quick approvals; however, sometimes, depending on the company, there may be further questions and further tests that need to be run to ensure the accuracy or safety of that equipment. Should she wish me to check into the process for a particular\nThe Chair: We will go back to Ms. Gallant.\n",
      "Mrs. Cheryl Gallant: Have officials provided the government with a target for a daily antibody test to complete an initial survey or the initial phase of a study?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I assume the member opposite is talking about the work of the immunity task force, which is, as you know, a group of scientists who have been funded by the Government of Canada\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Gallant.\nMrs. Cheryl Gallant: Through you, Mr. Chair, would the minister please provide the names of the people on the task force to which she just referred?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I will forward those names to the office of the member opposite.\nMrs. Cheryl Gallant: I hope that will be within the next two days or so, and not wait until after the crisis has passed, Mr. Chairman. Why isn't the Prime Minister showing as much fervour for antibody testing as he is for getting a vaccine on the market?\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I reject the premise of that question. In fact, the Prime Minister has shown fervour for all aspects of dealing with the coronavirus from the very inception of the virus on the world stage. To allege otherwise is quite disingenuous.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Kelly.\nMr. Pat Kelly (Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC): When will the government give the Auditor General the funds she needs to do her job?\nHon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage): First, Mr. Chair, I would like to offer my congratulations to the new Auditor General for her appointment. On behalf of the government, I would also like to offer her our full support and collaboration\nThe Chair: We'll go to Mr. Kelly.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: I share the minister's wish to congratulate the new Auditor General on her position. I will now ask him again when he will give her the funds she needs to do her job.\nHon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr. Chair, her role is essential to our democracy. We are eager to work with her. She's more than welcome to share her concerns directly with the government. I can assure her that my\nThe Chair: We'll go to Mr. Kelly.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Mr. Chair, I didn't ask him if he would like to work with the Auditor General. I asked him if he will give the Auditor General the money she needs to do her job.\nHon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr. Chair, our government has added 38 permanent staff positions to her office, while the Conservative government, under their leadership, cut the funding for more than 60\nThe Chair: We'll move on to Mr. Kelly.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Mr. Chair, through you, I caution the minister to not mislead this House. If he will look at the committee transcripts of the time, he will know that it was the Auditor General's decision to reduce their own budget. The Conservatives did not cut positions. That is a matter of fact. The point is that the Auditor General now does not have the money to do her job. She has cut performance audits and she has stopped work on performance audits. When will this government give the Auditor General the money she needs to do her job?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: With us, it was 38 new positions, Mr. Chair. With them, it was 60 positions fewer.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Mr. Chair, this government has drastically expanded its spending and is avoiding accountability in every way it can. The finance committee yesterday, with the support of Liberal backbench MPs who are on that committee, unanimously passed a motion to fund the Auditor General in full so that her office can do her job. If this minister will not listen to me, will he at least listen to his own backbenchers?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr. Chair, our government is fully committed to supporting the important and ongoing work of the Auditor General, an independent officer of Parliament. If the Auditor General identifies the need for additional resources, we will work with the Office of the Auditor General to ensure that they have all the resources they need to continue fulfilling their mandate efficiently and effectively.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Mr. Chair, the Auditor General has consistently, since 2018, told this government that the office doesn't have enough funds. It's not a mystery. The Auditor General has told the public accounts committee that it cannot do its job. It's the first time in history that the Auditor General has had to tell public accounts that they don't have the resources to do their job. It's not a matter of if the Auditor General needs more funds. The Auditor General couldn't be more clear. When will this government actually do the right thing and fully fund the Office of the Auditor General?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr. Chair, maybe I'm not making myself clear in English. I will switch to my native tongue, French, in case it becomes clearer. If the Auditor General identifies a need for additional resources, we will work with her to ensure that her office can continue to deliver its mandate efficiently and effectively. In addition, our government worked with the Auditor General to increase funding in 2018-09. With this increase, the office was able to add the equivalent of 38new full-time staff to its team. That's 38more employees\nThe Chair: The floor goes to Mr.Kelly.\n",
      "Mr. Pat Kelly: Mr. Chair, this isn't an if situation. The Auditor General has already told this government that her office does not have funds. This has been ongoing since 2018. I would ask the minister to please stop with the platitudes and actually just say yes or no. Will the government give the Auditor General the money that the Auditor General has already asked for?\nHon. Steven Guilbeault: Mr. Chair, we have already increased the budget of the Office of the Auditor General in the 2018-19 period.\nThe Chair: Before we continue, we're going to suspend for a second to bring in the next chair.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends (BrossardSaint-Lambert, Lib.)): There's a point of order.\nMr. Pat Kelly: Madam Chair, I know that no member would knowingly mislead the House. No member wants to do that. It's always customary to give members a chance to correct the record, so I call upon the minister to do so now, and perhaps even the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister misled the House in his response to a question. I have here the transcripts of the public accounts committee, and they will confirm that the\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): This is beginning to sound a bit like debate. We will proceed. Mr.Ste-Marie, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Thank you, MadamChair. First, I would like to take this opportunity to say hi from Portugal. I would also like to inform you that I will be sharing my time with my colleague and friend, the member for Lac-Saint-Jean. Obrigado. While Quebec estimates its additional health care costs related to COVID-19 at $3billion, Ottawa is transferring around $115million, which is not even4%. Does the government recognize that this is clearly insufficient?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, as the member opposite knows, we invested an initial $500 million in transfers to the provinces and territories to manage the extreme pressure put on health care systems as a result of their supporting people living with COVID and in preventing COVID. We want to thank the provinces and territories for their work, and as the member opposite knows, we will continue to be there for the provinces and territories. This is a significant transfer, and we think\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr.Ste-Marie, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: MadamChair, the minister says that this is a substantial transfer. Yes, it is a lot of money. The government is giving about $115million to Quebec, but that is not even 4%of what is being requested. Does the minister recognize that much more is needed?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: We have been working with the provinces and territories from the beginning to respond to the crisis. We have increased health care transfers, provided medical protective equipment and responded to all requests for assistance. We have been able to make so much progress in the fight against COVID-19 precisely because of this co-operation. Stirring up an imaginary quarrel between the federal government and Quebec\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr.Ste-Marie, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: MadamChair, it isn't about squabbling, it's about needs. The share that the federal government is giving isn't enough. We should act now, before we see a possible second wave. What we're seeing today are the results of massive disinvestment by the federal government in health care. This isn't good enough. The government must act quickly. Can the government commit to better funding to the health care sector and to organizing a meeting with Quebec and the provinces on this exact topic, in September at the latest? We can't afford to wait.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The hon. minister's response will have to be brief.\nHon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, with respect to the transfers to provinces and territories, the member opposite knows that our government, in our last mandate, significantly increased transfers to the provinces and territories for health services, including mental health and home care services. In fact, the funding we're providing is in addition to the $40 billion that was transferred\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr.Brunelle-Duceppe.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, BQ): Thank you, MadamChair.   Tudo bem? Tudo bom?  Today in La Presse, we learned that the government has extended its military presence in long-term care homes. Can the minister confirm this information, and can he also confirm that the presence of these 500soldiers is indeed in response to a request from the Government of Quebec?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, let me assure the member that when Quebec made a request for assistance at the beginning of April, we answered the call. When they asked for an extension of that, we said we would continue to provide that assistance. I had a conversation today with Minister Guilbault, my counterpart in Quebec, and we have renewed our commitment to continuing to provide assistance. That assistance can take additional forms and can include involving the Canadian Red Cross, but we remain committed to providing the assistance that Quebec needs.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: If I understand correctly, negotiations are still under way with the Government of Quebec, even though it needs these soldiers. The mission ends Friday. This isn't really the time to negotiate anymore. We have to make sure that the military will stay in our long-term care homes as long as we need their services in Quebec, and until new attendants have been trained. Can the minister confirm that the mission will indeed be extended?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I'd like to assure this House that we have assured Quebec that the Canadian Armed Forces will continue to provide support until such time as other trained professional people are able to do that job. We're working very hard with the Province of Quebec. We're working with the Canadian Armed Forces and the Canadian Red Cross. We will be there for Quebeckers because they need our help, and as long as they need our help, we'll be there to support them.\n",
      "Mr. Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe: This isn't the time to play cat-and-mouse. The only thing we have to do is to give the Government of Quebec what it's asking for. Quebec pays 23%of the army's budget, so Quebeckers are entitled to this support. Quebec has more than 5,000deaths from COVID-19, 90%of which have been in seniors' residences or long-term care homes. The military's presence is vital because they play an extraordinary and essential role. Will the minister commit to extending the mission now and putting an end to this uncertainty? It's certainly bad for both the military and the health care workers, who rely on this support.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The hon. minister has 10seconds.\nHon. Bill Blair: Again, Madam Chair, let me be very clear. We have made a commitment to the Province of Quebec that we will continue to provide that support until the middle of September, exactly as they have requested, but we are also working to ensure that we have an sustainable, effective solution to the request that Quebec has made, so we're working with the Province of Quebec, the Canadian Armed Forces and the Canadian Red Cross to ensure the help that is needed is there.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will go now to Bryan May.\n",
      "Mr. Bryan May (Cambridge, Lib.): Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It's a pleasure and an honour to be with you all today. I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the member of Parliament for Scarborough North. Madam Chair, COVID-19 continues to create challenges for all Canadians, including those with disabilities, and exacerbates those experienced by Canadians with disabilities. As we mark the end of National AccessAbility Week, I would like to remind our colleagues that our commitment to making Canada more inclusive and equitable is ongoing, including our passing of the Accessible Canada Act. Would the minister inform the House about the government's plans to support Canadians with disabilities who are experiencing increased costs due to COVID-19?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough (Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion): Madam Chair, last week was the first National AccessAbility Week that was legislated under the historic Accessible Canada Act, and I thank every party in this House for the consent they gave to that legislation. I'm hoping we have the same spirit of camaraderie for people with disabilities this afternoon. Since the beginning, Madam Chair, we have taken a disability inclusion approach on how we support people with disabilities in this time of pandemic, including the establishment of our COVID-19 disability advisory group, which has given us invaluable advice. I thank them so much for their contributions to our efforts. Last week we announced a suite of measures to support people with disabilities that complement existing measures that are in place. This includes a one-time payment of $600 to 1.25 million citizens with disabilities, which again is the subject matter of the legislation this afternoon, as well as a $15-million investment in an accessible workplace initiative that will ensure, moving forward.... We know that as we move back into employment situations it will be very tough for people with disabilities. Finally, there are five really exciting accessible technology initiatives, including working on point-of-sale terminals for Canadians who are blind or visually impaired.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): You may have a very short question, Mr. May.\nMr. Bryan May: I want to take this opportunity to thank the minister and her department for all the work they are doing to ensure that accessibility is at the forefront of everybody's mind through this crisis.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr. Chen is next.\n",
      "Mr. Shaun Chen (Scarborough North, Lib.): Madam Chair, as humanity battles COVID-19, we are confronted by the stark realities of another disease. On May 25, George Floyd fell unconscious and died as a police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes. This all happened after the 46-year-old black man was handcuffed and put in a position where he could do no harm. In Canada, we have come a long way since Viola Desmond, yet there is much more to do. Anti-black racism is institutionalized, hidden under dominant narratives of a free and multicultural society. Hatred has no boundaries, whether it is against black communities or is anti-Asian sentiment fuelled by COVID-19. The question always is this: Who is next? We must all stand up together against hatred and for justice and reconciliation, to dismantle systems of oppression that long remained unquestioned. Recent data from Statistics Canada shows that Canada is failing black youth, creating the conditions that push them into the justice system. To the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, my question is this: What is the government doing to address the unique challenges faced by black youth?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth): Madam Chair, the member for Scarborough North is absolutely correct. We must all do what we can to stand up against hatred and injustice. We often say that today's youth are not only the leaders of tomorrow but the leaders of today, so we need to equip them for success by investing in youth. According to the 2016 census, black Canadians accounted for 1.2 million people, and more than a quarter of that population is under the age of 15. Socio-economic gaps, such as in employment and education, exist between black and non-black youth. We need to do better. Our government has brought forward youth so they can inform the decisions we make. We have Canada's first youth policy, and it was created by youth for youth to ensure that all young people are equipped to live healthy and fulfilling lives, and are empowered to create positive change for themselves and their communities. Our government launched the community support for black Canadian youth program, which supported 56 projects geared to address the unique challenges faced by black Canadian youth through the development of leadership skills and civic engagement, while empowering them through the promotion of black history, culture and identity. To address the challenges of the pandemic, our government has implemented a suite of measures designed to help youth and students, including with employment and service opportunities. My office is working with community organizations who serve black youth to make sure they too are both aware of and benefiting from these measures.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Ms. Mathyssen is next.\nMs. Lindsay Mathyssen (LondonFanshawe, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be splitting my time with the member for TimminsJames Bay. Schools in many provinces remain closed, and many child care providers want to reopen. They must reduce their capacity due to COVID-19. Now more than ever we need universal, publicly funded child care to restart the economy. Will the government bring in legislation that would enshrine into law access to, and federal funding for, quality affordable child care?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development): Madam Chair, we are, of course, committed to investments in child care. We have constantly worked with provinces and territories to ensure that we provide the supports they need to provide quality, affordable and accessible child care. Since 2015, we have created over 40,000 child care spaces. We are committed to creating an additional 250,000 before-school and after-school child care spaces.\n",
      "Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen: The government doesn't seem to understand that this is not universal child care. During COVID-19, women have lost the majority of jobs, and they have taken on the majority of additional child care responsibilities. Canadian women want and need to return to work, but this government doesn't understand that without affordable child care, they simply cannot re-enter the workforce. For 26 years, Liberal governments have been promising, but failing to deliver, a universal child care program. Parents are paying the price. How much longer do parents have to wait?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for the important question. Since 2015, we have created 40,000 affordable, accessible, quality child care spaces across the country. We are on track to continue to invest $7.5 billion over 11 years to create additional child care spaces and support provinces and territories. We're constantly in touch with our counterparts to work to strengthen that sector. We are also keeping our promise and our commitment to create an additional 250,000 spaces. We will be there for parents as they get back to work, and we will continue to reinforce the early learning and child care sector.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): You have time for a very short question, Ms. Mathyssen.\nMs. Lindsay Mathyssen: Without universal child care, we are crippling our economy. We are not providing an affordable system, and this stops women from returning to work. Instead of helping parents return to work, the government is now bringing forward legislation that's penalizing them. Why is the government looking to sentence mothers and fathers to jail time and large fines when they cannot find the child care that\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The honourable minister has time for a short answer.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: We are committed to the early learning and child care sector. We will move forward with the creation of an early learning and child care secretariat. We will continue to invest in this sector. We recognize its importance.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Now we will go to Mr. Angus.\n",
      "Mr. Charlie Angus (TimminsJames Bay, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. It's an honour to be here, and I'm hoping that you and your family stay safe at this time. COVID has shaken up Canada's middle class, so my question is for the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity. This morning I spoke with a businesswoman. She runs her own business, a travel agency, but because of COVID she has been wiped out. She's on CERB, and it's ticking down. There's no work to go back to, so in four weeks she hits the economic wall. Will the minister fight for an extension of CERB so this woman can stay in the middle class?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, we know how worried Canadians are as they see their final four-week period of the CERB approaching, and we're working very hard to ensure that the CERB continues to serve an important purpose as we move into economic recovery. I'll note that when we created the CERB, there was a different purpose in mind. We were asking people to stay home. Now we're asking people to go back to work if it's safe for them to do so. We're going to make sure that the wage subsidy and the CERB complement each other. In fact, the measures in today's legislation will help us to get the flexibility to be able to do just that.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We did give you a little more time. We will go to Mr. Angus.\n",
      "Mr. Charlie Angus: Thank you for that. What I've seen with their legislation today is that they're talking about jailing people. We need a Minister of Middle Class Prosperity in a time of middle-class disparity, and she has talked about middle-class criminality. Let's talk about this again, about people going back to work. I spoke with a 51-year-old bartender. He's a professional; this is his job. There is no job to go back to. Will the minister assure us that this man will be able to stay in the middle class because the CERB will still be there in July, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, since the beginning of the crisis, we've been helping Canadians by putting programs in place. We will continue to support families during the crisis, and afterwards as well.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr. Angus, you have time for a very short comment or question.\n",
      "Mr. Charlie Angus: The issue here is that when COVID hit, millions of Canadians were living in such precarious working conditions that they didn't even have enough money to pay their rent. That is a damning indictment. In four weeks, those Canadians are going to hit the economic wall again. What I need to know from the minister, and what Canadians need to know, is whether she will commit, yes or no, that the CERB will be there for those who have no work to go back to.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The honourable minister may give a very short answer.\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, since the beginning of the crisis, we have been helping families with a supplement to the Canada child benefit. We have put in place the Canada emergency response benefit. We will continue to find ways to support Canadian families during this crisis.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will go to Mr. Cooper.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Cooper (St. AlbertEdmonton, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair. It was all the way back on March 25 that the Minister of Finance stated that help for the energy sector was coming within hours, possibly days. Well, as it turns out, it hasn't been hours. It hasn't been days. It hasn't even been weeks. Indeed, months later, help has yet to arrive. Seventy-seven days after the minister made that statement, not a single energy company has received financing under EDC, the BDC, or the LEEFF program. As the energy sector faces an unprecedented liquidity crisis, how can this government possibly justify such a delay?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Chair, weeks ago we opened applications through the business credit availability program to support the small and medium-sized players that make up 85% of the jobs in our sector. We've also opened applications for measures that will be available to our larger players through our LEEFF program. We will continue to work with industry. We will continue to support workers, and we will continue to do so to get through this unprecedented challenge.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Cooper: Madam Chair, on June 2, the vice-president of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers said, The entire industry is frustrated with the delay that we are facing. The Saskatchewan Minister of Energy and Resources has spoken about a gaping hole that exists in terms of support for the energy sector. The gaping hole that I'm speaking of is the EDC and BDC programs that this government has failed to deliver upon. Indeed, it was on April 17 that those programs were announced, and 54 days later, not only has not a single energy company received financing, but guess what? They can't even apply, and the eligibility criteria have yet to be finalized after 54 days. If that is not failing to deliver for the energy sector, what is?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Madam Chair, the Business Council of Alberta has said that the LEEFF program is a positive development showing that the federal government recognizes the needs and value of Canada's large corporations. We agree. It is essential that we support our oil and gas sector as it suffers through two crises: the impacts of COVID and the effects of a global price war initiated by Russia and Saudi Arabia. That's why, weeks ago, we opened applications for liquidity measures to support the small and medium-sized players that make up 85% of the jobs in our sector. We also announced liquidity made available to our larger players through the LEEFF program. We will continue to work with industry to make sure these programs are effective.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Cooper: Madam Chair, contrary to the representations of the minister, neither the EDC program nor BDC programs are accepting applications. Just yesterday officials from both BDC and EDC were before the finance committee, where I posed precisely those questions to them. We know, Madam Chair, that the application process isn't up and running and that eligibility criteria remain to be determined, but I guess this government has some good news for the energy sector after 77 days. Now energy sector companies can go on the BDC website and apply for email updates. Is that the kind of help the Minister of Finance had in mind after 77 days: email updates instead of real relief for the energy sector?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Madam Chair, the Alberta finance minister, Travis Toews, said in a LEEFF announcement that in combination with earlier measures for small and medium-sized companies, it represented an expression of confidence in our industries. It is essential that we support our oil and gas sector as it suffers through these two crisesas I said, the impact of COVID, and then on top of that, the effect of a global price war. We opened up applications for liquidity measures as the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers asked. Their top five asks were all liquidity. We supported small and medium-sized players essential to the supply chain, who make up 85% of the jobs in that sector, and then we announced liquidity made available to our larger players through the LEEFF program. We will continue to work with industry and\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): I now have to interrupt for a few moments to allow our technicians to change places. With that done, Monsieur Martel, you may now go ahead..\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel (ChicoutimiLe Fjord, CPC): MadamChair, there has recently been positive progress in AndrGauthier's case, and I'd like to take the opportunity to thank the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Deputy Prime Minister for their co-operation in this matter. However, Mr.Gauthier is currently on his own in the United Arab Emirates, without a passport, waiting to settle civil lawsuits. What services does the minister intend to provide to help him, and when does he plan to repatriate AndrGauthier to Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Marc Garneau: MadamChair, in all cases similar to Mr.Gauthier's, the Government of Canada, through its consular services, tries to do the best it can under the circumstances. This file is still active.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: The House recognized on February18, 2020, that the 15weeks of sickness benefits provided by employment insurance were insufficient. Citizens who became ill before March15 are now without help. They are being denied the CERB because they didn't lose their jobs because of COVID-19. They are being denied EI regular benefits because they are unable to work. In addition, some citizens are waiting for surgery, which is being delayed because of COVID-19. Is the government letting these people down?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: No, MadamChair, that's absolutely not the case. Of course, we understand that people who are no longer receiving EI benefits should have access to the CERB. We have committed to extending the emergency sickness benefit to 26weeks. We're working with everyone here to make that happen. We're taking into account the needs and circumstances of all citizens in our efforts to help Canadians.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: I've called on the Minister of Economic Development several times to be more flexible in establishing these programs, so that they are better adapted to the realities of the regions. Recently, it was the SMEs in Montreal that were monopolizing the funds earmarked for the regions. When will the Liberal government listen to the needs of regions like SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: I thank my colleague for the opportunity to announce the good news that was mentioned on Radio-Canada this morning, namely, $71million more for the regions of Quebec. Of course, we're here for the regions. I will be happy to work with my colleague to ensure that the CFDC in his region can support businesses. We have to support businesses in SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean and across the country.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: I think that's a canned speech. According to a survey conducted by the Universit de Trois-Rivires in Quebec, the SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean region is apparently the most economically affected by COVID-19. We have many projects, but they depend on the government's leadership to be carried out. Our region has forestry, the aluminum sector, GNL Qubec, tourism, the Port of Saguenay, Davie Canada, a military base and a tax centre. It's all here. We know we'll have to get the economy moving again soon. When will the government act to help our region?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Every day, we act to help my colleague's region. I've had good conversations with Promotion Saguenay. I've also spoken several times with various stakeholders in my colleague's beautiful region. We will always be there for them. I'd like to tell my colleague that there will be other announcements to support the economic development of the beautiful region of SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean. I will be happy to work with him to achieve good results.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Martel: Sustainable forestry development is at the heart of the economic development of Canada and for SaguenayLac-Saint-Jean. Canadians have reason to be proud of the use of the boreal forest in the fight against climate change. Currently, our innovative forest industry is experiencing many problems, and on top of that, there is the COVID-19 crisis. Who will defend our forestry workers?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Of course, we believe in the importance of regional economic development. That's why we're always there to defend our forestry workers. I will also be pleased to work with my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources, who is very familiar with the matter and who knows the challenges faced by the various businesses in the forestry sector, as well as the employees. We will always be there to support employees and create more jobs across Quebec and the country.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Ms. Sahota is next. Go ahead, please.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair. We continue to see significant gaps in the Liberals' programs. There are still people who are falling through the cracks and being left behind. We are hearing from women who are pregnant or who have just given birth and are being left out or told to go back to work. When will this government stop letting Canadians down?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: We know that there are many situations of Canadians who are about to or are just going on maternity or parental benefits who might not have access to their EI benefits due to not having accumulated enough time for COVID reasons. We're working very hard to make sure, as we did for fish harvesters, that we support all Canadians in these situations. I look forward to advising Canadians of our approach on this very soon.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, that simply isn't good enough. This is something that has been brought to the government's attention for months now, and still nothing has been done. These families deserve answers now. Had the government conducted a GBA+ analysis, they would have discovered this prior to rolling out inadequate programs for women. Why wasn't a GBA+ conducted?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: I can assure everyone in this House that we are very aware and deeply concerned about the disproportionate impact of this pandemic on women and girls. We are working hard to ensure that everyone has the supports they need. As we move forward, we are, as I said earlier, taking into consideration improvements to the EI system, the wage subsidy and the future of CERB. All these play together as we work to provide a comprehensive forward-looking support package for Canadians.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, might I remind my honourable colleague that this Prime Minister said that every piece of legislation would go through a rigorous GBA+? Why was it not done?\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, I can assure the member that we absolutely took into account the needs of women as we developed the CERB. I can tell you that women are benefiting significantly from this benefit.\nMs. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, it is a simple question, and I will ask again. Why was GBA+ analysis not conducted for the COVID-19 relief programs?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, as I said, the needs of women and girls were taken into consideration every step of the way, from the beginning, as we worked to provide a comprehensive suite of support for Canadians across the country.\nMs. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, if that's the case, then how did you miss these gaps?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, I can assure the member that we didn't miss gaps. We, from the beginning, looked to support as many people as possible. As we moved from supporting workers to supporting students to supporting seniors, and today to supporting people with disabilities, we are ensuring that everyone is covered by our measures. As this pandemic evolves and as we move into economic recovery, of course we're going to make sure that women in particular are supported in our measures.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, the minister needs to take the responsibility here. These women and families deserve answers. This is a real problem happening right now. You said you would conduct GBA+ analysis on all policy measures moving forward. Where is the assistance for these expectant mothers?\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, I take responsibility. I'm very proud of how many senior women we have supported with our measures, how many women received the GST credit, how many women who lead families received the CCB one-time payment and how many women with disabilities will receive the disability support if we have all-party consent today.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Ms. Sahota, may I remind you to please direct your questions through the chair?\nMs. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, I will ask again, hoping for a straightforward answer from this minister. Why was a GBA+ analysis not conducted on the COVID-19 relief programs?\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: My goodness, Madam Chair. I'll say again how important it was from the very beginning that we took into account the needs of women and girls, and as we move forward into the economic recovery phase, how completely we make women at the core of every decision.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Ms. Sahota, you have 15 seconds.\nMs. Jag Sahota: Madam Chair, my question is still not answered. She keeps repeating the same answer. I'll keep asking the same question, hoping for a straightforward answer. Why was a GBA+ analysis not conducted on the COVID-19 relief programs?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Honourable minister, you have five seconds.\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, we've taken into account the needs of women and girls from the beginning, and we'll continue to do so.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We go now to Mr. Carrie.\nMr. Colin Carrie (Oshawa, CPC): Madame Chair, on April 29 I asked Minister Blair why Lisa Freeman, a constituent of mine, wasn't able to participate in the Parole Board hearing of her father's murderer. The minister acknowledged that this had been a mistake and that victims would now be able to attend by telephone and video conference. Can the minister tell this House how many parole hearings have been conducted under this digital format with victims since April 29?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino (Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship): Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank my honourable colleague for the question. I'm glad to hear that Minister Blair was able to provide information on the specific case he raises. With regard to his question, we're happy to provide it to him in due course.\n",
      "Mr. Colin Carrie: Madame Chair, on April 29 the minister said, and I quote, Steps have been taken to make it possible for victims to participate in those parole hearings virtually by phone or video conference. If the change has been made, can the minister please tell us how many hearings victims have been able to participate in by video conference?\nHon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, as I said, certainly we will confirm the number of hearings that may have occurred. With regard to the hearings under the Parole Board of Canada, we want to ensure that victims and others are able to participate in a fair and transparent manner.\n",
      "Mr. Colin Carrie: Madame Chair, the website says, To protect the health and safety of the public, offenders, Parole Board...members and staff in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the PBC is currently conducting its hearings remotely via video conference or teleconference. However, when referring to victim participation, the PBC says it has Implemented technological and procedural enhancements in order to provide victims...the ability to participate...via telephone. If video conference is an option for staff and inmates, why is it not for victims?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, as I said, it is very important that all parties be able to participate before the Parole Board. The Parole Board has introduced technologies to allow victims to participate in a manner that is fair and that accords them the opportunity to express themselves.\nMr. Colin Carrie: Madam Chair, the minister is missing the point. For victims, besides the criminal trial, the Parole Board hearings are the only chance to participate in the judicial process. Why are victims not permitted on the video conference, while staff, panels and inmates are?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, as I've said now on a number of occasions, victims are able to participate in the hearings before the Parole Board. This is as a result of technology and innovations introduced by the Parole Board. Of course, those opportunities will continue to exist going forward.\nMr. Colin Carrie: Then, Madam Chair, why did the minister and this government tell Canadians and the House that victims of crime have the opportunity to participate in parole hearings by video conference, when in fact they do not?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, as I've said, of course we are going to confirm the status of that particular request. In the meantime, as I've said on a number of occasions, victims are able to participate in these hearings. This is consistent with the fairness of those hearings and the due process we accord to them.\nMr. Colin Carrie: Madam Chair, it's been over a month. When will the minister finally give victims of crime the same right to parole hearings by video conference as he gives convicted inmates?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, I reject that proposition. The Parole Board is a well-established tribunal that does allow for all parties, including victims, to participate in a manner that is fair, and that allows them to express themselves so those representations can be taken into account in the decisions of the Parole Board of Canada.\n",
      "Mr. Colin Carrie: He can reject it as much as he wants, Madam Chair, but it seems he thinks it's fair that inmates have that right, but victims don't. We'll follow up with him on that. Brandon Hottot owns and operates a contracting business in my riding, and his company needs help. On May 19, the Prime Minister announced the government would allow sole proprietors and gig contractors to qualify for the Canada emergency business account; however, Brandon has still not been able to take advantage of this benefit. When can small business owners like Brandon expect this change to finally be made? It's been over three weeks, and the clock is ticking.\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Madam Chair, from the very beginning, we have been working hard to support our small businesses. Over 660,000 businesses today have received access to small business loans. I want to assure my colleague that additional support will be there within about a week.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr. Carrie, you may have a very short question.\n",
      "Mr. Colin Carrie: Okay, Madam Chair. Shawn and Denise operate a gymnastics facility in Whitby and have been forced to close throughout COVID-19. As the economy begins to open, they are concerned about not having the money to pay their employees in the short term, especially at a reduced client capacity. Is the government extending the wage subsidy to small businesses that have been closed and are just beginning to open now?\nHon. Mary Ng: The wage subsidy has been extended until August 31. We hope businesses like that one will be able to take advantage of the wage subsidy to keep their employees on staff.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will go now to Ms. May.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to put it on the record, because we may or may not be debating it, the draft embargoed bill that we've seen is unacceptable to members of the Green Party caucus. My questions will relate largely to those sections that are troublesome. I'll start with a question to the honourable minister for disabilities. I certainly appreciate her work and I know her intentions are the best, but part 3 of this bill allows for the information to be shared so people can get a one-time payment of $600, which is not enough to really deal with the COVID crisis for people with disabilities. It's clearand I thank the honourable leader of the New Democratic Party for making this point clearly in question periodit will reach approximately 40% of people with disabilities because of the structure of going through the disability tax credit. To the honourable minister, are other measures under consideration to reach the rest of the people in Canada with disabilities who need help?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, the disability support payment we are proposing and that we hope to get through the House today complements a whole suite of measures our government has put in place that people with disabilities have access to. We know that people with disabilities who were precariously employed are now taking advantage of the CERB. Students with disabilities get the student benefit, including a $750-per-month top-up for four months. Families with children with disabilities are getting the CCB payment. Disproportionately, people with disabilities are benefiting from the GST payment. I should talk about the provincial letters that are being delivered to recipients of provincial disability supports. All around, Madam Chair, we're trying to get to every citizen with a disability, and this measure fills an important gap.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: Much worse than part 3, from our point of view, is the treatment of people who are at this point potentially to be jailed for refusing to return to work when it's considered reasonable and they are recipients of CERB. I wonder about the reasonableness here. It's a subjective test. This is a wrong-headed approach to go after people and threaten them. The retroactive section has already made the Canadian Civil Liberties Association question its constitutionality. To the minister, what's reasonable, and in whose eyes is it reasonable? In today's news, Hamilton's chief medical officer says there is a spike in cases among young people, who likely were exposed while taking public transit to get to work. Their commute wasn't safe. Who determines reasonableness in deciding it's not safe to go back to work?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, as with the current CERB, moving forward it tries to encompass the situations of people who are unemployed, people who can't work because of child care responsibilities, people who are ill or sick. Moving to a broad term of reasonableness allows us to look at the individual circumstances of the person. If we stuck to language like suitable or appropriate, that would qualify the job. We're trying to look at the person and their particular circumstances as we work to ensure that if someone is immunocompromised and can't take transit to their job, then it's reasonable for them not to take that job. That's the exact example we're trying to encompass with broad reasonableness criteria.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: The approach is so very flawed, Madam Chair, in that it attempts to punish people as opposed to encouraging them. I think the Liberals have been overly influenced by the Conservative Party's cries that there's vast fraud, that Canadians are cheating. The reality is that if you want to create an incentive to go back to work, you don't threaten people. What you do is create a sliding scale. You let people continue to receive CERB, but maybe less as they begin to earn more, so that you have a transition on a sliding scale to go into the wage subsidy or into CERB. I ask the honourable minister this: How can it be considered fair to say that someone isn't eligible, even though they believed they were? The language in this bill, particularly at proposed paragraph 12.1 in the penalties section, is an unreasonable determination that someone has violated the act and is subject to jail time and heavy fines.\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, because of parliamentary privilege, I can't and won't speak to specific acts of a piece of law that hasn't actually been introduced in the House, but I'll tell you that what we're trying to do is enhance our integrity measures. We're working with those people who made an honest mistake, those who took advantage of returning to work when they were still receiving the CERB. We're working with those people. We're absolutely confident that those people will find a path forward. We want to deal with intentional fraudsters, people who are criminally taking advantage of seniors. Members of this House have brought fact patterns to my attention and have said, Please deal with these. This is exactly what we're trying to deal with, Madam Chair.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will go to Mr. Cannings.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Cannings: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to be sharing my time with the member from EsquimaltSaanichSooke. Tourism is a critical part of the economy throughout my riding, and after struggling with years of forest fires and floods, tourism was set to have a record-breaking year in 2020, but the COVID epidemic has burned tourism to the ground, in the words of a local leader. Thousands of jobs have evaporated. Over half of the tourism businesses in the region are facing imminent insolvency. Many of them are small seasonal operations that don't qualify for any of the government's COVID support programs. While funding for ad campaigns is appreciated, these businesses need direct support and they need certainty about that support. Can the finance minister pledge now to provide direct and timely support to tourism businesses in my riding?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Thank you to my colleague for his important question. I agree with him. The tourism sector has been deeply impacted by the pandemic and the economic crisis. Yes, we were looking forward to another record-breaking year in 2020, but unfortunately the pandemic happened, and therefore many businesses were impacted. That's why, as a government, we're there to help with the wage subsidy, which has been extended until the end of August, as the tourism sector has been asking us to do; with the CEBA loans, the $40,000 loans, which also include a subsidy; and with the commercial rent relief. That said, we know the tourism sector also sometimes falls through the cracks. That's why we wanted to have a backstop. We came up with funding through the regional development agencies. In my colleague's riding, it's Western Economic Diversification. Some businesses have applied and have received funding. If there are more that need help, please come and see me. I would love to be there to help your community, help tourism\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will go to Mr. Cannings.\nMr. Richard Cannings: A big part of tourism in my riding is the wine sector. One thing that has allowed the wine industry to grow so dramatically in the past few decades is the excise tax exemption. That exemption could likely end very soon if it is found to be non-compliant with our trade agreements. The industry has proposed a trade-legal replacement, the wine growers' value-added program. The finance minister has known about this situation for months. Can he assure this House and the industry that the government will act immediately to implement this program?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The honourable minister may give a very short answer, please.\nHon. Bill Morneau: We continue to work on this issue. We recognize how important the wine industry is in B.C., and I assure the honourable member that I will come back to him and give him an update.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Now we will go to Mr. Garrison.\n",
      "Mr. Randall Garrison (EsquimaltSaanichSooke, NDP): Madam Chair, this is National Blood Donor Week in Canada. While blood and plasma donations are always important, during this pandemic they're critical. There's a simple and effective way to increase the blood supply: End the gay blood ban. More than 17 other countries have no deferral because they know that behaviour-based screening provides better security for the blood supply than identity-based exclusions. The Liberals must agree, because they promised this in two election campaigns. Will the Minister of Health do more than repeat those same promises today and instead take action to get this unscientific and discriminatory gay blood ban lifted?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board): Madam Chair, I'm glad to be able to answer this very important question. We indeed want to fight against discrimination. We feel this particularly strongly in the context of the last few days and the last few weeks. We are also mindful of the important contribution of scientists and other experts in this area. We look forward to working with all members in this House in making progress on that issue.\n",
      "Mr. Randall Garrison: The government knows I've been calling on friends, family and allies of the gay community to donate blood this week in the place of those of us who cannot. Not only do we need routine blood donations, but to do the research we need on possible prevention and treatment of COVID-19, we urgently need plasma donations from those who have recovered. This ban means that plasma donations are being rejected for no good scientific reason. Again, when will the Minister of Health act to get this ban lifted?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Madam Chair, I think the member used the right key words in referring to science and more prevention work to make sure that everyone lives in dignity and safety. Although there has been progress in the last few months and years on this important issue, there is more work to be done.\n",
      "Mr. Randall Garrison: Six years ago this week, I tabled a motion in the House that called for an end to this homophobic and transphobic ban on blood donations from gay men, men who have sex with men and trans women. That was five ministers of health ago. At the time, I was told certain things had to happen before the ban could be lifted. These were all due to be completed earlier this year, before the COVID crisis. Since we appear to have cross-party support for my new motion, M-41, that I put on the notice paper this week, would the minister and the government agree to support a unanimous consent motion to proceed with M-41 immediately?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The honourable minister may give a short answer, please.\nHon. Jean-Yves Duclos: Thank you, Madam Chair. Homophobia and transphobia are examples of discrimination and absolutely important things not only to recognize but to fight against. That's why we are pleased to have voices such as the member of Parliament's voice to make sure that we make progress in making sure that everyone in Canada lives in safety and in dignity.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr.Blanchette-Joncas.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas (Rimouski-NeigetteTmiscouataLes Basques, BQ): MadamChair, I will share my time with the honourable member for LongueuilSaint-Hubert. As Quebec starts to gradually emerge from the general lockdown, the outlook for the recovery of the tourism industry remains bleak. The economy of several regions of Quebec depends on tourism to ensure stability and balance, which will be beneficial in the coming months. Is the Minister of Finance prepared to extend the Canada emergency response benefit beyond 16weeks to ensure a living wage for tourism workers?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: MadamChair, as I said in English, we're working very hard to continue to be there for all Canadians, whether it's through the CERB or the Canada emergency wage subsidy. Please excuse me, I'm very tired. I'll continue in English. We're going to have news on this very soon, Madam Chair, but the point is that we want to make sure that all of these programs work well together, whether it's the wage subsidy or the CERB. We want to make sure that we incentivize work, but we still continue to be there for Canadians.\n",
      "Mr. Maxime Blanchette-Joncas: We read that the government wants to gradually replace the Canada emergency response benefit by using the Canada emergency wage subsidy. That's all well and good, but seasonal industries aren't entitled to it under the current criteria. If the minister is aware of the importance of the tourism industry in the economic cycle of our regions, he must commit to helping workers. If the clientele isn't there, the industry will simply no longer exist. We still need the Canada emergency response benefit. We simply need to make it an employment incentive so as not to hurt people who are lucky enough to be able to go back to work. The question is simple: will the government commit to renewing it?\n",
      "Hon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, we are working hard to make sure we continue to support Canadians as we transition through economic recovery. We want to make sure that we support Canadians, but of course we don't want to disincentivize work. The CERB was created for a different purpose. We asked people to stay home to be safe and to self-isolate if they had symptoms. We want to make sure that as we ask people to go back to work, we don't disincentivize work, but the reality is that there won't be jobs there for everyone, and we need to continue to support everyone.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr.Trudel, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Denis Trudel (LongueuilSaint-Hubert, BQ): MadamChair, I join my colleague in extending my good wishes to you on Portugal's national day. Apart from the fact that it is probably the most beautiful riding in Quebec, the riding of LongueuilSaint-Hubert has surely been one of the hardest hit by the pandemic, both in terms of health and the economy. There are industries here, but also many service businesses, including bars, restaurants and theatres. But we aren't close to being able to go back and see a show by WajdiMouawad or FredPellerin, and that's a shame. We must work to calm the anxiety of these people. The arts sector was the first to stop its activities and will be the last to resume them. There is a lot of anxiety. The CERB ends on July4. Will the government extend the CERB, with an employment incentive?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: MadamChair, I thank my colleague for his question and all the work he's doing in arts and culture. From the outset, we've been there to support our artists and arts organizations. We introduced the Canada emergency response benefit, for example, but also the emergency wage subsidy, which we made available to non-governmental organizations. To ensure that people who receive royalties aren't penalized under the Canada emergency response benefit, we have adapted it. We announced a $500million fund to specifically help the arts and culture sector. In fact, we understand very well that this sector has been severely affected by the current crisis. We've been there for our artists and artisans, and we will continue to be.\n",
      "Mr. Denis Trudel: Perfect. Instead of giving a long preamble, I'll ask a very simple question: will the CERB be extended on July5?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): The hon. minister has the floor.\nHon. Carla Qualtrough: Madam Chair, I can assure the member opposite that in July we will be there for Canadian workers.\n",
      "Mr. Denis Trudel: In my riding, a nice little restaurant called Crpe Caf on St-Charles Street in Longueuil has just closed its doors. It's final; it won't reopen. Another restaurant owner told me that he was going to reopen his restaurant, but he didn't know at what capacity. Would it be at 15%, 30%, 40%? No one knows. The speed at which the economy will recover is the big unknown. How many hours a week will it be able to offer its employees? Will it be 12hours, 15hours, 22hours? Will employees even want to return to work to put in 12hours a week? If the CERB isn't adjusted, nothing will happen. Will the government commit to extending the CERB and providing an employment incentive to get the economy moving again at full speed?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: MadamChair, I know, of course, that the restaurant sector has been much affected. I have a great deal of empathy for what entrepreneurs and my colleague are going through in his riding. That's why we are currently helping our SMEs. We have money for economic development. The money is available through Canada Economic Development, or CED. If my colleague wants to work with me to provide support to restaurant owners and other restaurants in Longueuil, I'd be very happy to do so.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will go to Mr. Bragdon.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon (TobiqueMactaquac, CPC): Madam Chair, last month, on May 5, I asked the government how it plans to support the agriculture sector. The Liberals announced a $50-million food surplus purchase program as part of the agricultural aid package. Now, one month later, our farmers, who provide the food we need, are still waiting on funds to be delivered. The New Brunswick potato industry is sitting on a massive amount of last year's crop that, because of the pandemic, has no buyers. When will the Prime Minister and the government step up and deliver the support our farmers so desperately need?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, without question we want to continue to support farmers. My colleague Minister Bibeau has introduced hundreds of millions of dollars for farmers. In addition to that, we have provided relief and support for migrant workers, who are ensuring that Canadians have access to safe and affordable food.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: Madam Chair, when support for the agriculture sector was announced on May 4, our agriculture sector had been sounding the alarm for weeks that they needed help to continue to meet Canadians' food needs. It has been over a month since that announcement, and our farmers are still waiting for help. It is worth noting, Madam Chair, that vegetables like the potatoes in New Brunswick that I previously mentioned are perishable products. Our farmers do not have the luxury of time. Again, will the Prime Minister and this government make agriculture a priority and provide them with the support they desperately need right now?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Madam Chair, obviously we believe in the importance of our regions and our rural communities, and that's why we've always made sure that agriculture was at the core of many of the decisions throughout this pandemic. That's why our colleague Minister Bibeau, who is the Minister of Agriculture, has been there providing the right liquidity and the right support through this pandemic. Of course we want to make sure that we continue to partner with provinces and territories, because we need their help in this context to make sure that all together we show strong economic support for our farmers, who are going through tough times.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: On May 1 the Liberals introduced a sweeping firearms ban through an order in council that outlawed 1,500 firearms. Recent reports show that since then, more and more firearms are quietly being added to the list of banned firearms, including many common hunting rifles and shotguns. Madam Chair, our hunters, outfitters, dealers and sport shooters are some of the most vetted members of our society. Why does the Prime Minister insist on making criminals out of law-abiding firearms owners instead of dealing with the criminals we already have?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, I am very proud of this government's record when it comes to ensuring that we take out of our communities those guns that have one objective only, and that is to kill other people. We will always stand by that record, and we will continue to take the necessary steps to keep our communities safe.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: Madam Chair, the Liberals have said that to compensate firearms owners, they will implement a national buyback program. Instead of targeting law-abiding firearms owners and their legally purchased private property, wouldn't the estimated quarter of a billion dollars needed to buy back these firearms be better utilized right now in supporting our agricultural sector, the very people who grow our food and literally keep our land?\n",
      "Hon. Marco Mendicino: Madam Chair, of course we look forward to saying more about that, but of course we remain committed to taking those guns that have only one objective, and that is to kill people. The legislation we have introduced and the measures we have taken are designed to keep our communities safe, and of course we will do that. We will also continue to support farmers, introducing hundreds of millions of dollars in support because we know they are providing Canadians with affordable food.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): Mr. Bragdon, you have time for a short question.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Bragdon: Madam Chair, many sole proprietors have been hit extremely hard by this pandemic. My office has heard from many who have been in business for nearly 30 years and have submitted hundreds of HST returns, yet still cannot access the CEBA funding because they do not have a business chequing account, as a lot of small business owners use their personal chequing accounts to do their business. The Liberals offered aid to sole proprietors but attached unnecessary hurdles that prevent many of them from accessing the funds they desperately need to keep their businesses afloat. When will these unnecessary hurdles be removed so businesses can start to receive the relief they so desperately need?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mends): We will have a very short answer from the honourable minister.\nHon. Mlanie Joly: We believe in the importance of making sure we're supporting our businesses, including sole proprietors. That is why our colleague, Minister Ng, the minister for small business, has been working on this and will continue to make sure we take the appropriate steps to recognize that. Meanwhile, people can definitely come to the regional development agencies if they don't have access to funding through banks, and that's a good way to make sure there is a backstop.\n"
    ],
    "length": 26606,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 72,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The team was setting up a new project in which they would record meetings and then generate summaries. The meeting began with introductions and a discussion of what kind of data the team could collect. They considered collecting visual data as well as notes. At the end of the meetings, the team wanted to ask participants to summarize what they took away as well as ask questions about the meeting. This would be a method for collecting more data to train a potential summarization model. One concern the team had was how they could reduce bias when collecting queries. Words like \"important\" could skew participant responses. The team also expressed some interest in collecting action items. Finally, the team discussed what each member should do to get the project up and running and the role of diversity in their data set.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad G: headphones that aren't so uncomfortable .\nPhD B: I think {disfmarker} Well , this should be off the record ,\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nPhD B: but I think {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Uh , OK .\nProfessor A: We 're not recording yet , are we ?\nGrad G: Well , I don't think {disfmarker}\nPhD F: No , uh , that {disfmarker} that wasn't recorded .\nGrad G: No . Um , I don't think they 're designed to be over your ears .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , I know . It just {disfmarker} it really hurts . It gives you a headache , like if you {disfmarker} On your temple {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Temple squeezers .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yep .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: But I definitely {pause} haven't figured it out .\nProfessor A: Um , Meeting Recorder meeting .\nPhD F: I guess I have to d stop doing this sigh of contentment , you know , after sipping cappuccino or something .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , with the {disfmarker} We kno I know .\nGrad G: \" Sip , sigh . \"\nPhD B: We know exactly how much you have left in your cup .\nPhD F: I was just noticing a big s\nProfessor D: So are we recording now ? Is this {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oh ! We 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we 're live . OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: So , uh , {vocalsound} what were we gonna talk about again ? So we said {disfmarker} we said data collection , which we 're doing .\nPhD B: Were we gonna do digits ?\nProfessor A: OK . Do we do th do you go around the room {pause} and do names or anything ?\nGrad G: I think that {disfmarker}\nPhD E: It 's a good idea .\nGrad G: u usually we 've done that and also we 've s done digits as well , but I forgot to print any out . So . Besides with this big a group ,\n",
      "PhD B: You can write them on the board , if you want .\nProfessor D: No . I it 'd be even better with this big {disfmarker}\nGrad G: it would take too much time .\nPhD E: Which way is {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah , but it takes too much time .\nPhD E: Mari ?\nPostdoc H: What {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: What ?\nProfessor D: It 's not that long .\n",
      "PhD E: Y I think your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your thing {nonvocalsound} may be pointing in a funny direction . Sort of it 's {disfmarker} it helps if it points sort of upwards .\nProfessor A: Whoops .\nPhD E: Sort of it {disfmarker} you know .\nProfessor A: Would it {disfmarker} m\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: w u\nPhD E: So that thing {disfmarker} the little {disfmarker} th that part should be pointing upwards .\n",
      "Professor A: So {disfmarker} Oh , this thing .\nPhD E: That 's it . Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Otherwise you just get a heartbeats .\nProfessor A: It 's kind of {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Oh , yeah , the element , yeah , n should be as close to you {disfmarker} your mouth as possible .\nProfessor A: Yeah . OK .\nPhD E: That 's good . That kind of thing is good .\nPostdoc H: It 's a {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: This w Alright .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: How 's that working ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Oh , yeah . It 's a {disfmarker} It 's working .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: Alright . So what we had {pause} was that we were gonna talk about data collection , and , um , uh , you {disfmarker} you put up there data format ,\nProfessor A: Um .\nProfessor D: and other tasks during data collection ,\nProfessor A: So , I think the goal {disfmarker} the goal was what can we do {disfmarker} how can you do the data collection differently to get {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: what can you add to it to get , um , some information that would be helpful for the user - interface design ? Like {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Uh , especially for querying .\nProfessor A: Especially for querying . So , getting people to do queries afterwards , getting people to do summaries afterwards . Um .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Well , one thing that came up in the morning {disfmarker} in the morning was the , um , i uh , if he {disfmarker} I , um {disfmarker} if he has {disfmarker} s I {disfmarker} I don't remember , Mister Lan - Doctor Landry ?\nGrad G: Landay . James .\nPostdoc H: La - Landay ? So he has , um , these , uh , um , tsk {comment} note - taking things ,\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc H: then that would sort of be a summary which you wouldn't have to solicit . y if {disfmarker} if we were able to {disfmarker} to do that .\nProfessor A: Well , if {disfmarker} if you actually take notes as a summary as opposed to n take notes in the sense of taking advantage of the time - stamps . So action item or uh , reminder to send this to so - and - so , blah - blah - blah .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So that wouldn't be a summary . That would just be {disfmarker} that would b relate to the query side .\n",
      "Grad G: But if we had the CrossPads , we could ask people , you know , if {disfmarker} if something comes up {vocalsound} write it down and mark it {vocalsound} {pause} somehow ,\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Right . I mean , we {disfmarker} because you 'd have several people with these pads , you could collect different things .\nGrad G: you know .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD E: I mean , cuz I tend to take notes which are summaries . And so , you know {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: I mean , the down - side to that is that he sort of indicated that the , uh , quality of {vocalsound} the handwriting recognition was quite poor .\nProfessor A: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad G: But that 's alright . I don't think there 'd be so many that you couldn't have someone clean it up\nProfessor A: So {disfmarker}\nGrad G: pretty easily .\nProfessor A: Yeah . We also could come up with some code for things that people want to do so that {disfmarker} for frequent things .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: And the other things , people can write whatever they want . I mean , it 's to some extent , uh , for his benefit . So , if that {disfmarker} you know , if {disfmarker} if we just keep it simple then maybe it 's still useful .\nPhD F: Right .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor D: I just realized we skipped the part that we were saying we were gonna do at the front where we each said who we were .\nPostdoc H: The roll call .\nProfessor A: Right . I thought you did that on purpose .\nProfessor D: Roll call .\n",
      "Professor A: But anyway , shall we do the roll call ?\nProfessor D: No , not a No , I just {disfmarker} My mind went elsewhere . So , uh , yeah , I 'm Morgan , and where am I ? I 'm on channel three .\nGrad G: And I 'm Adam Janin on channel A .\nPostdoc H: I 'm Jane Edwards , I think on channel B .\nPhD E: I 'm Dan Ellis .\nPhD F: Eric on channel nine .\nPhD B: Liz , on channel one .\nProfessor A: Mari on channel zero .\nProfessor C: Katrin on channel two .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Should we have used pseudo - names ? Should we do it a second time with pseudo No . {vocalsound} No .\nProfessor D: I 'm Rocky Raccoon {vocalsound} on channel {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Let me , uh , turn that off .\nGrad G: And , uh , do you want to do the P D As and the {pause} P Z\nPhD E: Oh . PZM nearest , nearest , next nearest . Next one .\nPostdoc H: Next nearest .\nPhD E: Furthest .\nGrad G: Far .\n",
      "PhD E: PDM - right , PZA - right {disfmarker} PDA - right , PDA - left .\nPostdoc H: OK .\nPhD E: Thanks .\nGrad G: Yeah , and eventually once this room gets a little more organized , the Jimlets {comment} will be mounted under the table , and these guys will be permanently mounted somehow . You know , probably with double - sided tape , but {disfmarker} So . You {disfmarker} So we won't have to go through that .\nProfessor A: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc H: I have a question on protocol in these meetings , which is when you say \" Jimlet \" and the person listening won't know what that is , sh shou How {disfmarker} how do we get {disfmarker} Is that important information ? You know , the Jimlet {disfmarker} I mean , the box that contains the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Well , I mean , suppose we broaden out and go to a range of meetings besides just these internal ones . There 's gonna be lots of things that any group of people who know each other have in column {disfmarker} common {comment} that we will not know .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPostdoc H: OK .\nProfessor A: So the there will be jargon that we he There 'll be transcription errors .\nPostdoc H: Good .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: I mean , we {disfmarker} we were originally gonna do this with VLSI design , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and the reason we didn't go straight to that was because immediately ninety percent of what we heard would be {vocalsound} jargon to {disfmarker} to us . So .\nGrad G: Well , that was just one of the reasons . But , yeah , definitely .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: OK . Good .\nProfessor D: That {disfmarker} that 's right . There were others of course . Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc H: OK , so we were on the data collection {pause} {comment} and the summary issue .\nProfessor D: Right . We can go back .\nProfessor A: So , uh , u u So , actually there 's kind of three issues . There 's the CrossPad issue . Should we do it and , if so , what 'll we have them do ? Um , do we have s people write summaries ? Everybody or one person ? And then , do we ask people for how they would query things ? Is that {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: There 's {disfmarker} there 're sub - problems in that , in that where {disfmarker} or when do you actually ask them about that ?\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD F: I mean , that was {disfmarker} One thing I was thinking about was is that Dan said earlier that , you know , maybe two weeks later , which is when you would want to query these things , you might ask them then .\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: But there 's a problem with that in that if {pause} you 're not {disfmarker} If you don't have an interactive system , it 's gonna be hard to go beyond sort of the first level of question .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD F: Right . And furth id explore the data further .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD F: So .\nProfessor D: There 's {disfmarker} there 's another problem\nGrad G: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: which is , um , we certainly do want to branch out beyond , uh , uh , recording meetings about Meeting Recorder . And , uh , once we get out beyond our little group , the people 's motivation factor , uh , reduces enormously . And if we start giving them a bunch of other things to do , how {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we did n you know another meeting here for another group and {disfmarker} and , uh , they were fine with it . But if we 'd said , \" OK , now all eight of you have to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} have to come up with , uh , the summar \"\n",
      "Grad G: Well , I asked them to and none of them did .\nProfessor D: t See ? There we go .\nGrad G: So , I {disfmarker} I asked them to send me ideas for queries after the meeting\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: They {disfmarker}\nGrad G: and no one ever did .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: I didn't follow up either .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad G: So I didn't track them down and say \" please do th do it now \" . But , uh , no one spontaneously provided anything .\n",
      "Professor D: I I 'm worried that if you did {disfmarker} even if you did push them into it , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it might be semi - random ,\nProfessor A: Right .\nProfessor D: uh , as opposed to what you 'd really want to know if you were gonna use this thing .\nPhD E: Right .\nProfessor A: OK .\nGrad G: I just don't know how else to generate the queries other than getting an expert to actually listen to the meeting and say \" that 's important , that might be a query \" .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Tsk . Well , there is this other thing which y which you were alluding to earlier , which is , um , there are certain key words like , you know , \" action item \" and things like that , which could be used in , uh , t to some degree finding the structure .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Although {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: W\n",
      "Postdoc H: And {disfmarker} and I also , um , was thinking , with reference to the n uh , note - taking , the advantage there is that you get structure without the person having to do something artificial later . And the fir third thing I wanted to say is the summaries afterwards , um , I think they should be recorded instead of written because I think that , um , it would take so long for people to write that I think you wouldn't get as good a summary .\nProfessor A: How about this idea ? That normally at most meetings somebody is delegated to be a note - taker .\nPostdoc H: Yeah , good . Good point .\n",
      "Professor A: And {disfmarker} So why don't we just use the notes that somebody takes ?\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nGrad G: I mean , that gives you a summary but it doesn't really {disfmarker} How do you generate queries from that ?\nPhD E: Well . But , I mean , maybe a summary is one of the things we 'd want from the output of the system .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD E: Right ? I mean , they 're something . It 's a {disfmarker} a kind of output you 'd like .\n",
      "PhD B: Actually {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Uh , James and I were talking about this during one of the breaks . And the problem with that is , I 'm definitely going to do something with information retrieval even if it 's sort of not full full - bore what I 'm gonna do for my thesis .\nProfessor A: Right .\nGrad G: I 'm gonna do something . I 'm not gonna do anything with summarization . And so if someone wants to do that , that 's fine , but it 's not gonna be me .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , I think that we {disfmarker} I mean , the {disfmarker} the f the core thing is that you know once we get some of these issues nailed down , we need to do a bunch of recordings\nProfessor A: Well {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: and send them off to IBM and get a bunch of transcriptions even if they 're slightly flawed\nGrad G: Yep .\nProfessor D: or need some other {disfmarker} And then we 'll have some data there .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: And then , i i we can start l looking and thinking , what do we want to know about these things and {disfmarker} at the very least .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Yeah {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: I actually want to say something about the note pad . So , if you could sense just when people are writing , and you tell them not to doodle , or try not to {pause} be using that for other purposes , {comment} and each person has a note pad . They just get it when they come in the room . Then you c you can just have a fff {comment} plot of wh you know , who 's writing when .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nPhD B: That 's all you {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Activity . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: And , you can also have notes of the meeting . But I bet that 's {disfmarker} that will allow you to go into the {disfmarker} sort of the hot places where people are writing things down .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Oh , I see .\nPhD B: I mean , you can tell when you 're in a meeting when everybody stops to write something down that something was just said .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: It may not be kept in the later summary , but at that point in time is was something that was important .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And that wouldn't take any extra {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: That 's a nice idea .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Or someone could just pu you could just put your hand on the pad\nProfessor D: It {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and go like that if you want to . It 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: That 's a good idea but that doesn't {disfmarker} Maybe I 'm missing something , but that doesn't get to the question of how we come up with queries , right ?\nProfessor A: Well , what it does {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Well , then you can go to the points where the {disfmarker} you could actually go to those points in time and find out what they were talking about . And you r\nProfessor A: Well , what it does is provide a different {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: And {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Uh , y\n",
      "Professor A: I {disfmarker} I think it 's an interesting thing . I don't think it gets at the {disfmarker} the queries per - se , but it does give us an information fusion sort of thing that , you know , you wanna i say \" what were the hot - points of the meeting ? \"\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: That {disfmarker} that 's what I mean , is that I think it gets at something interesting but if we were asking the question , which I thought we were , of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of , um , \" how do we figure out what 's the nature of the queries that people are gonna want to ask of such a system ? \" , knowing what 's important doesn't tell you what people are going to be asking .\nPhD B: But I bet it 's a good {pause} superset of it .\nProfessor D: Does it ?\nProfessor A: Well , yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Well , see , there are th\nProfessor A: I think you could say they 're gonna ask about , uh , when {disfmarker} uh , when did so - and - so s talk about blah . And at least that gives you the word {pause} that they might run a query on .\nPhD B: At least you can find the locations where there are maybe keywords\nProfessor D: Maybe .\nGrad G: I mean , i this would tell you what the hit is ,\nPhD B: and {disfmarker}\nGrad G: not what the query is .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD B: Right , right .\n",
      "Grad G: What {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: It 'll tell you the hit but not the query .\nPhD B: But I think {disfmarker} I think thinking about queries is a little bit dangerous right now .\nGrad G: And so you could {disfmarker} you can generate a query from the hits ,\nProfessor A: Right .\nGrad G: but {disfmarker}\nPhD B: We don't even know what {disfmarker} I mean , if you want to find out what any user will use , that might be true for one domain and one user ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: but I mean a different domain and a different user {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Yeah , but we 're just looking for a place to start with that\nPhD B: Um .\n",
      "Professor D: because , you know , th what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what James is gonna be doing is looking at the user - interface and he 's looking at the query in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} i We {disfmarker} we have five hours of pilot data of the other stuff but we have zero hours of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of queries . So he 's just sort of going \" where {disfmarker} where do I {disfmarker} where do I start ? \"\n",
      "Professor A: w Well , th you could do {disfmarker} I think the summaries actually may help get us there ,\nProfessor D: OK .\nProfessor A: for a couple reasons . One , if you have a summary {disfmarker} if you have a bunch of summaries , you can do a word frequency count and see what words come up in different types of meetings .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So \" action item \" is gonna come up whether it 's a VLSI meeting , or speech meeting , or whatever . So words that come up in different types of meetings may be something that you would want to query about .\n",
      "Grad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Um , the second thing you could possibly do with it is just run a little pilot experiment with somebody saying \" here 's a summary of a meeting , what questions might you want to ask about it to go back ? \"\nGrad G: Yeah , I think that 's difficult because then they 're not gonna ask the questions that are in the summary .\nProfessor A: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad G: But , I think it would give {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: That 's one possi one possible scenario , though , is you have the summary ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: and you want to ask questions to get more detail .\nGrad G: th Yeah , I think it has to be a participant . Well , it doesn't have to be . OK . So that {disfmarker} that is another use of Meeting Recorder that we haven't really talked about , which is for someone else , as opposed to as a {pause} remembrance agent , which is what had been my primary thought in the information retrieval part of it would be . But , uh , I guess if you had a meeting participant , they could use the summary to refresh themselves about the meeting and then make up queries . But it 's not {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: I don't know how to do it if {disfmarker} until you have a system .\nPhD B: The summary is actually gonna drive the queries then .\nProfessor A: Mmm .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: I mean , your research is going to be very circular .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah , that {disfmarker} that 's what I was saying .\n",
      "PhD E: But th there is this , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} There is this class of queries , which are the things that you didn't realize were important at the time but some in retrospect you think \" oh , hang on , didn't we talk about that ? \" And it 's something that didn't appear in the summary but you {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: And that 's kind of what this kind of , uh , complete data capture is kind of nicest for .\nProfessor A: Right . Right .\n",
      "PhD B: Right .\nPhD E: Cuz it 's the things that you wouldn't have bothered to make an effort to record but they get recorded . So , I mean {disfmarker} And th there 's no way of generating those , u u until we just {disfmarker} until they actually occur .\nPhD B: But you could always post - hoc label them .\nPhD E: You know , it 's like {disfmarker} Right , right . Exactly .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: But I mean , it 's difficult to sort of say \" and if I was gonna ask four questions about this , what would they be ? \" Those aren't the kind of things that come up .\nGrad G: But at least it would get us started .\nPhD E: Oh , yeah . Yeah , sure .\n",
      "Postdoc H: I also think that w if {disfmarker} if you can use the summaries as an indication of the important points of the {disfmarker} of the meeting , then you might get something like {disfmarker} y So if th if the obscure item you want to know more about was some form of data collection , you know , maybe the summary would say , you know , \" we discussed types of na data collection \" . And , you know {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and maybe you could get to it by that . If you {disfmarker} if you had the {disfmarker} the larger structure of the {disfmarker} of the discourse , then if you can categorize what it is that you 're looking for with reference to those l those larger headings , then you can find it even if you don't have a direct route to that .\n",
      "Grad G: Mmm . Although it seems like that 's , um , a high burden on the note - taker .\nPostdoc H: I think that {disfmarker}\nGrad G: That 's a pretty fine grain that the note - taker will have to take .\nPhD B: Maybe Landay can put a student in to be a note - taker .\nProfessor A: I th No . I think you got to have somebody who knows the pro knows the topic or {disfmarker} you know , whose job it is delegated to be the note - taker .\nPhD B: No ?\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Somebody who 's part of the meeting .\nPhD B: No , I mean , but someone who can come sit in on the meetings and then takes the notes with them that the real note - taker {disfmarker}\nGrad G: But they {disfmarker}\nPhD B: And that way that one student has , you know , a rough idea of what was going on , and they can use it for their research . I mean , this isn't really necessarily what you would do in a real system ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: because that that 's a lot of trouble\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: and maybe it 's not the best way to do it . But if he has some students that want to study that then they should sort of get to know the people and attend those meetings ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and get the notes from the note - taker or something .\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nGrad G: Well , I think that 's a little bit of a problem . Their sort of note - taking application stuff they 've been doing for the last couple of years , and I don't think anyone is still working on it .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: I think they 're done . Um , so I 'm not sure that they have anyone currently working on notes . So what we 'd have to interest someone in is the combination of note and speech .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: And so the question is \" is there such a person ? \" And I think right now , the answer is \" no \" .\nProfessor A: Well\nProfessor D: I 've b been thinking {disfmarker}\nGrad G: We 'll just have to see .\n",
      "Professor D: I 've been thinking about it a little bit here {disfmarker} about the {disfmarker} uh , th this , e um {disfmarker} I think that the {disfmarker} now I 'm thinking that the summary {disfmarker} a summary , uh , is actually a reasonable , uh , bootstrap into this {disfmarker} into what we 'd like to get at . It 's {disfmarker} it 's not ideal , but we {disfmarker} you know , we {disfmarker} we have to get started someplace . So I was {disfmarker} I was just thinking about , um , suppose we wanted to get {disfmarker} w We have this collection of meeting . We have five hours of stuff . Uh , we get that transcribed . So now we have five hours of meetings and , uh , you ask me , uh , uh , \" Morgan , what d you know , what kind of questions do you want to ask ? \" Uh , I wouldn't have any idea what kind of questions I want to ask . I 'd have to get started someplace . So in fact if I looked at summary of it , I 'd go \" oh , yeah , I was in that meeting , I remember that , um , what was the part that {disfmarker} \" And {disfmarker} and th I think that might then help me to think of things {disfmarker} even things that aren't listed in the summary , but just as a {disfmarker} as a {disfmarker} as a refresh of what the general thing was going on in the meeting .\n",
      "Grad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: I think it serves two purpo purposes . One , as sort of a refresh to help bootstrap queries ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor A: but also , I mean , maybe we do want to generate summaries . And then it 's {disfmarker} you know , it 's kind of a key .\nProfessor D: Well , yeah . That 's true too .\nPhD E: Hmm .\nGrad G: Yeah , absolutely . Then you want to have it .\nProfessor A: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So how does the summary get generated ?\n",
      "Professor A: Well , i i {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: I 'm not against the idea of a summary ,\nGrad G: By hand .\nPhD B: but I wanted to think carefully about who 's generating it\nProfessor A: Or , d o\nPhD B: and how {disfmarker} because the summary will drive the queries .\nProfessor A: What I {disfmarker} I think , you know , in most meetings ,\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: this one being {pause} different , but in most meetings that I attend , there 's somebody t explicitly taking notes , frequently on a laptop {disfmarker} Um , you can just make it be on a laptop ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: so then yo you 're dealing with ASCII and not somebody {disfmarker} you don't have to go through handwriting recognition . Um , and then they post - edit it into , uh , a summary and they email it out for minutes . I mean , that happens in most meetings .\n",
      "Postdoc H: I I {disfmarker} I think that , um , there 's {disfmarker} we 're using \" summary \" in two different ways . So what you just described I would describe as \" minutes \" .\nGrad G: Minutes .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: And what I originally thought was , um , if you asked someone \" what was the meeting about ? \"\nPhD B: OK .\nProfessor A: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc H: And then they would say \" well , we talked about this and then we talked about that , and so - and - so talked about {disfmarker} \" And then you 'd have , like {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} e My thought was to have multiple people summarize it , on recording rather than writing because writing takes time and you get irrelevant other things that u take time , that {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Whereas if you just say it immediately after the meeting , you know , a two - minute summary of what the meeting was about , I think you would get , uh , with mult See , I {disfmarker} I also worry about having a single note - taker because that 's just one person 's perception . And , um , you know , it {disfmarker} it 's releva it 's relative to what you 're focus was on that meeting ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: and {disfmarker} and people have different {comment} major topics that they 're interested in .\n",
      "Professor D: A\nPostdoc H: So , my proposal would be that it may be worth considering both of those types , you know , the note - taking and a spontaneous oral summary afterwards ,\nProfessor A: OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: no longer than two minutes ,\nProfessor D: Adam , you can {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: from multiple people .\nProfessor D: you can correct me on this ,\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor D: but {disfmarker} but , uh , my impression was that , uh , pretty much , uh , true that the meetings here , nobody sits with a w uh , with a laptop\n",
      "Grad G: Never .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Never . I 've never seen it at ICSI . Does anyone {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: Dan ?\nProfessor D: I\nGrad G: I mean , Dan is the one who {disfmarker} who most frequently would take notes ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad G: and {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I 've d When we {disfmarker} when we have other meetings . When I have meetings on the European projects , we have someone taking notes .\nGrad G: Oh , really ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , but those are bigger deal things .\nPhD E: In fact , I often do it .\nProfessor D: Right ? Where you 've got fifteen peo\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: I mean , most {disfmarker} th this is one of the larger meetings . Most of the meetings we have are four or five people\nGrad G: That 's true {disfmarker} are four or five people .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: and you 're not {disfmarker} you don't have somebody sitting and taking minutes for it .\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "Professor D: You just {vocalsound} get together and talk about where you are .\nProfessor A: So , I think it depends on whether it 's a business meeting or a technical discussion .\nGrad G: Culture .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: And I agree ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: technical discussions you don't usually have somebody taking notes .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad G: The IRAM meeting , they {disfmarker} they take notes every {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Do they ?\nGrad G: There 's uh a person with a laptop {pause} at each meeting .\n",
      "PhD E: How many people are those meetings ?\nGrad G: There are more . I mean , there are ten - ish .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Y you should also have a record of what 's on the board .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: They 're very sparse .\nPhD B: I mean , I find it very {pause} hard to reconstruct what 's going on . I {disfmarker} I don't know how {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah . This is something early in the project we talked a lot about .\n",
      "PhD B: I don't know how , but for instance , I mean , the outline is sort of up here and that 's what people are seeing . And if you have a {disfmarker} Or you shou could tell people not to {disfmarker} to use the boards . But there 's sort of this missing information otherwise .\nPhD E: We sh we should {disfmarker}\nGrad G: I agree , but {disfmarker} but you {disfmarker} you just {disfmarker} you g end up with video ,\nPostdoc H: I agree .\nPhD E: Well , I don't know .\n",
      "Grad G: and {disfmarker} and instrumented rooms . And {pause} that 's a different project , I think .\nPhD E: f u I think for this data capture , it would be nice to have a digital camera\nGrad G: Yeah , different {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Uh , y\nPhD E: just to take pictures of who 's there , where the microphones are , and then we could also put in what 's on the board . You know , like three or four snaps for every {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Right .\nPostdoc H: I agree .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . People who were never at the meeting will have a very hard time understanding it otherwise .\nPhD E: for every meeting .\nPostdoc H: That 's wonderful .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: But don't you think that 's {disfmarker} Don't you think that {disfmarker} But {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: I agree .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Even people who were at the meeting .\n",
      "PhD E: Well , no . I mean , I {disfmarker} I just think {disfmarker} I mean , I think that right now we don't make a record of where people are sitting on the tables .\nProfessor A: Right .\nGrad G: Huh .\nPhD E: And that {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} at some point that might be awfully useful .\nGrad G: Right . But I think adding photographs adds a whole nother level of problems .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Mmm .\nPhD E: Yeah . We n uh ,\n",
      "Postdoc H: It 's just a digital record .\nPhD E: Not {disfmarker} not as part of the {disfmarker} not as a part of the data that you have to recover .\nPhD B: I don't mean that you model it .\nPhD E: Just {disfmarker} just in terms of {disfmarker}\nPhD B: We should just {disfmarker} Like archiving it or storing it .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Yes , I agree . I agree .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: It 's i because discourse is about things ,\n",
      "PhD B: Because someone {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: and then you have the things that are about , and it 's recoverable .\nPhD B: someone later might be able to take these and say \" OK , they , you know {disfmarker} at least these are the people who were there\nPhD E: So {disfmarker}\nPhD B: and here 's sort of what they started talking about , and {disfmarker} \" and just {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Yes . And it 's so simple .\nProfessor D: Li\nPostdoc H: Like you said , three snapshots\n",
      "Professor D: uh , L L L\nPostdoc H: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Liz , you {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Just to archive .\nProfessor D: u uh , Liz , you sa you sat in on the , uh , {vocalsound} subcommittee meeting or whatever {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Actually {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: uh , on {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} on the subcommittee meeting for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} at the , uh {disfmarker} that workshop we were at that , uh , uh , Mark Liberman was {disfmarker} was having . So I {disfmarker} I wasn't there . They {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they h must have had some discussion about video and the visual aspect , and all that .\nPhD B: Big , big interest . Huge .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: I mean , it {disfmarker} personally , I don't {disfmarker} I would never want to deal with it . But I 'm just saying first of all there 's a whole bunch of fusion issues that DARPA 's interested in .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD B: You know , fusing gesture and face recognition ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: even lip movement and things like that , for this kind of task . And there 's also I think a personal interest on the part of Mark Liberman in this kind of {disfmarker} in storing these images in any data we collect\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: so that later we can do other things with it .\nProfessor D: Yeah . So {disfmarker} so to address what {disfmarker} what Adam 's saying ,\nPostdoc H: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I mean , I think you {disfmarker} uh , that the key thing there is that this is a description of database collection effort that they 're talking about doing .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And if the database exists and includes some visual information that doesn't mean that an individual researcher is going to make any use of it . Right ?\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad G: But that {disfmarker} it 's gonna be a lot of effort on our part to create it , and store it , and get all the standards , and to do anything with it .\nProfessor D: Right . So we 're gonna {disfmarker} So we 're gonna do what we 're gonna do , whatever 's reasonable for us .\nGrad G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: I think even doing something very crude {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: But having {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Like I know with ATIS , we just had a tape recorder running all the time .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And later on it turned out it was really good that you had a tape recorder of what was happening , even though you w you just got the speech from the machine . So if you can find some really , you know , low , uh , perplexity ,\nGrad G: Low fidelity .\n",
      "PhD B: yeah , {comment} way of {disfmarker} of doing that , I think it would be worthwhile .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: I agree . And if it 's simple as {disfmarker} I mean , as simple as just the digital {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Otherwise you 'd {disfmarker} you lose it .\nProfessor D: Well , minimally , I mean , what {disfmarker} what Dan is referring to at least having some representation of the p the spatial position of the people ,\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor D: cuz we are interested in some spatial processing .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: And so {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor D: so , um {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Well , once the room is a little more fixed that 's a little easier\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: cuz you 'll {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Well , the wireless .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Also CMU has been doing this and they were the most vocal at this meeting , Alex Waibel 's group . And they have {pause} said , I talked to the student who had done this , {comment} that with two fairly inexpensive cameras they {disfmarker} they just recorded all the time\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: and were able to get all the information from {disfmarker} or maybe it was three {disfmarker} from all the parts of the room . So I think we would be {disfmarker} we might lose the chance to use this data for somebody later who wants to do some kind of processing on it if we don't collect it {comment} at all .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't disagree . I think that if you have that , then people who are interested in vision can use this database . The problem with it is you 'll have more people who don't want to be filmed than who don't want to be recorded .\nProfessor C: Mmm .\nGrad G: So that there 's going to be another group of people who are gonna say \" I won't participate \" .\nPostdoc H: Well , she 's not {pause} making {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: That 's true .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Or you could put a paper bag over everybody 's head\nGrad G: Um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: and not look at each other and not look at boards , and just all be sitting {vocalsound} talking .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: That would be an interes {vocalsound} Bu\nPostdoc H: Well {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Great idea .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Well , there 's {disfmarker} that 'd be the {disfmarker} the parallel , yeah . But I think y she 's {disfmarker} we 're just proposing {pause} a minimal preservation of things on boards ,\nPhD B: Yeah . I definitely won't participate if there 's a camera .\nPostdoc H: sp spatial organization {disfmarker} And you could anonymize the faces for that matter . You know , I mean , this is {disfmarker}\nGrad G: But , you know , that 's a lot of infrastructure and work .\n",
      "Postdoc H: We can talk about the {disfmarker}\nGrad G: To set it up and then anonymize it ?\nPostdoc H: It 's just one snapshot .\nPhD B: No , it wa n not , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: No , no , no , no .\nPostdoc H: We 're not talking about a movie .\nProfessor A: So {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Not for {disfmarker} not for CMU .\nPostdoc H: We 're talking about a snapshot .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: They have a pretty crude set - up . And they had {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nPhD B: they just turn on these cameras . They were {disfmarker} they were not moving or anything .\nGrad G: Couldn't find it ?\nPhD B: And stored it on analog media .\nGrad G: Hmm ?\nPostdoc H: Hmm .\nPhD B: And they {disfmarker} they didn't actually align it or anything . They just {disfmarker} they have it , though .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Yeah . Well , it 's worth considering . Maybe we don't want to {disfmarker} spend that much more time discussing it ,\nPhD F: Did they store it digitally , or {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc H: but {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Hmm - mm . I think they just {disfmarker}\nPhD F: or just put it on videotape ?\nPhD B: I think they just had the videotapes with a c you know , a counter or something . Um ,\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Well , I think for {disfmarker} I mean , for our purposes we probably will d\nPhD B: I 'm not sure .\nProfessor D: we {disfmarker} we might try that some and {disfmarker} and we certainly already have some recordings that don't have that , uh , which , you know , we we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll get other value out of , I think .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Th The thing is , if it 's easy to collect it {disfmarker} it th then I think it 's a wise thing to do because once it 's gone it 's gone . And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I 'm just {disfmarker} The community {disfmarker} If LDC collects this data {disfmarker} u I mean , and L - if Mark Liberman is a strong proponent of how they collect it and what they collect , there will probably be some video data in there .\nProfessor D: There you go .\n",
      "PhD B: And so that could argue for us not doing it or it could argue for us doing it . The only place where it sort of overlaps is when some of the summarization issues are {disfmarker} actually could be , um , easier {disfmarker} made easier if you had {pause} the video .\nProfessor D: I think at the moment we should be determining this on the basis of our own , uh , interests and needs rather than hypothetical ones from a community thing .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: As you say , if they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if they decide it 's really critical then they will collect a lot more data than we can afford to , uh , and {disfmarker} and will include all that .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nProfessor D: Um ,\nProfessor A: e\n",
      "Professor D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm not worried about the cost of setting it up . I 'm worried about the cost of people looking at it . In other words , it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 'd be kind of silly to collect it all and not look at it at all . And so I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that we do have to do some picking and choosing of the stuff that we 're doing . But I {disfmarker} I am int I do think that we m minimally want {disfmarker} something {disfmarker} we might want to look at {disfmarker} at some {disfmarker} some , uh , subsets of that . Like for a meeting like this , at least , uh , take a Polaroid of the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of the {disfmarker} of the boards ,\n",
      "PhD B: Of the board .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nPhD B: Or at least make sure that the note - taker takes a sh you know , a snapshot of the board .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Exactly .\nProfessor D: a and know the position of the people {disfmarker}\nPhD B: That 'll make it a lot easier for meetings that are structured .\nPostdoc H: Exactly .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: I mean , otherwise later on if nobody wrote this stuff on the board down we 'd have a harder time summarizing it or agreeing on a summary .\n",
      "Postdoc H: We {disfmarker} And it {disfmarker} Especially since this is common knowledge . I mean , this is shared knowledge among all the participants , and it 's a shame to keep it off the recording .\nGrad G: Uh , except in {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: s\nGrad G: er , if we weren't recording this , this {disfmarker} this would get lost . Right ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Well , I don't understand that point . I mean , I just think that the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: The point is that we 're not saving it anyway . Right ? In {disfmarker} in {pause} our real - life setting .\nPostdoc H: Well {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: What do you mean we 're not saving it anyway ? I 've written all of this down and it 's getting emailed to you .\nProfessor C: And you 're gonna send it out by email , too .\nGrad G: Well , uh , in that case we don't need to take pictures of it .\n",
      "PhD B: Right . That would be the other alternative , to make sure that anything that was on the board , um , is in the record .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: Well , that 's why {disfmarker} that 's why I 'm saying that I think the note - taking would be {disfmarker} I think in many {disfmarker} for many meetings there will be some sort of note - taking , in which case , that 's a useful thing to have {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , we {disfmarker} uh , we don't need to require it . Just like the {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: I mean , I think it would be great if we try to get a picture with every meeting . Um ,\n",
      "Postdoc H: I agree .\nProfessor A: so {disfmarker} so we won't worry about requiring these things , but the more things that we can get it for , the more useful it will be for various applications . So .\n",
      "Professor D: So {disfmarker} So , I mean , departing for the moment from the data collection question but actually talking about , you know , this group and what we actually want to do , uh , so I guess that 's th the way {disfmarker} what you were figuring on doing was {disfmarker} was {disfmarker} was , uh , putting together some notes and sending them to {disfmarker} to everybody from {disfmarker} from today ? OK . So . Um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: That 's great .\n",
      "Professor D: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} so the question {comment} that {disfmarker} that we started with was whether there was anything else we should do during {disfmarker} during th during the collection .\nPhD B: Ow .\nProfessor D: And I guess the CrossPads was certainly one idea , uh , and we 'll get them from him and we 'll just do that . Right ? And then the next thing we talked about was the {disfmarker} was the summaries and are we gonna do anything about that .\n",
      "Professor A: Well , before we leave the CrossPads and {disfmarker} and call it done .\nProfessor D: Oh , OK .\nProfessor A: So , if I 'm collecting data then there is this question of do I use CrossPads ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: So , I think that if we really seriously have me collect data and I can't use CrossPads , it 's probably less useful for you guys to go to the trouble of using it , um , unless you think that the CrossPads are gonna {disfmarker} n I 'm not {disfmarker} I 'm not sure what they 're gonna do . But {disfmarker} but having a small percentage of the data with it , I 'm not sure whether that 's useful or not . Maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 's no big deal .\nProfessor D: What {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: Maybe we just do it and see what happens .\nProfessor D: I guess the point was to try {disfmarker} again , to try to collect more information that could be useful later for {disfmarker} for the UI stuff .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So it 's sort of Landay supplying it so that Landay 's stuff can be easier to do .\nProfessor A: Right .\nProfessor D: So it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Right now he 's g operating from zero ,\nProfessor A: Nothing .\n",
      "Professor D: and so even if we didn't get it done from UW , it seems like that would {disfmarker} could still {disfmarker} You shou\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: I mean , at least try it .\nPhD B: I think it 'd be useful to have a small amount of it just as a proof of concept .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: It will {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Right . OK .\nPhD B: You know , what you can do with things .\n",
      "Grad G: And {disfmarker} and they seem to {pause} not be able to give enough of them away , so we could probably get more as well .\nPhD B: Yeah . But not {disfmarker} not to rely on them for {pause} basic modeling .\nProfessor A: That 's true . So if it {disfmarker} if it seems to be really useful to you guys , we could probably get a donation to me .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah , I 'm not sure . I think it it {disfmarker} it will again depend on Landay , and if he has a student who 's interested , and how much infrastructure we 'll need . I mean , if it 's easy , we can just do it .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Um , but if it requires a lot of our time , we probably won't do it .\nProfessor A: Right .\nProfessor D: I guess a lot of the stuff we 're doing now really is pilot in one sense or another .\nGrad G: Yeah . Yeah , we have to sort of figure out what we 're gonna do .\n",
      "Professor D: And so we try it out and see how it works .\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD B: I just wouldn't base any of the modeling on having those .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad G: Right . I ag I think I agree with that .\nPhD B: It 's just {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Right . OK .\nGrad G: I think , though , the importance marking is a {pause} good idea , though . That if {disfmarker} if people have something in front of them {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: I 'd be sort of cool . I mean , it would {disfmarker} Yeah . That w shouldn't be hard for {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah . Do it on pilots or laptops or something . OK , if something 's important everyone clap .\nProfessor A: OK . So CrossPads , we 're just gonna try it and see what happens .\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad G: Yeah . Um , I think that 's right .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: OK .\n",
      "Professor A: The note - taking {disfmarker} So , I {disfmarker} I think that this is gonna be useful . So if we record data I will definitely ask for it . So , I j I think we should just say this is not {disfmarker} we don't want to put any extra burden on people , but if they happen to generate minutes , could {disfmarker} could they send it to us ?\nGrad G: Yeah . Oh , OK . That 's fine . Absolutely .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: And then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah . What I was gonna say is that I don't want to ask people to do something they wouldn't normally do in a meeting . It 's ver I just want to keep away from the artificiality .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: But I think it {pause} definitely if they exist . And then Jane 's idea of summarization afterward I think is not a bad one . Um , picking out {disfmarker} basically to let you pick out keywords , um , and , uh , construct queries .\nProfessor D: So who {disfmarker} who does this summarization ?\n",
      "Postdoc H: Yeah , I 'm thinking that {disfmarker}\nGrad G: People in the meeting .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nGrad G: You know , just at {disfmarker} at the end of the meeting , before you go ,\nPostdoc H: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: Without hearing each other though , probably .\nGrad G: go around the table .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Or even just have one or two people stay behind .\nGrad G: Yeah . Ugh . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: People with radio mikes can go into separate rooms and continue recording without hearing each other . That 's the nice thing .\nPhD B: Well , then you should try them a few weeks later\nPostdoc H: How fascinating .\nPhD B: and {disfmarker} They have all these memory experiments about how little you actually retain\nGrad G: And see {disfmarker} score them ?\nPhD E: That 's right . Well , that 's the interesting thing , though .\nPhD B: and wasn't {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: If we do {disfmarker} if we collect four different summaries , you know , we 're gonna get all this weird data about how people perceive things differently .\nGrad G: Oh .\nPhD E: It 's like {comment} this is not what we meant to research .\nGrad G: Hmm .\nPhD B: Right , right .\nProfessor D: Oh . Yeah .\nPostdoc H: That could be very interesting .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Hmm .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: But {disfmarker} but again , like the CrossPads , I don't think I would base a lot of stuff on it ,\nProfessor D: Ru\nGrad G: I d yeah , I don't know how you would do it , though .\nProfessor A: because I think {disfmarker} I know when I see the {disfmarker} the clock coming near the end of the meeting , I 'm like inching towards the door .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm . Running to {disfmarker} Yeah ,\nProfessor A: So ,\nGrad G: fff !\nPhD E: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: you 're probably not gonna get {pause} a lot of people wanting to do this .\nGrad G: Maybe e Is email easier ?\nPostdoc H: Well , I think if {disfmarker}\nGrad G: I mean , I {disfmarker} when you first said do {disfmarker} do it , um , spoken , what I was thinking is , oh then people have to come up\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: and you have to hook them up to the recorder . So , if they 're already here I think that 's good ,\nProfessor A: Right .\n",
      "Grad G: but if they 're not already here for {disfmarker} I 'd rather do email . I 'm much faster typing than anything else .\nPostdoc H: Yeah , I 'd just try {disfmarker} Well , however the least intrusive and {disfmarker} and quickest way is , and th and closest to the meeting time too , cuz people will start to forget it as soon as they l leave .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah . I think that {disfmarker} I think doing it orally at the end of the meeting is the best time .\nGrad G: I don't know . At {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: I just don't {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: because they 're kind of a captive audience . Once they leave ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: you know , forget it . But {disfmarker} but i\nGrad G: Yeah , read the digits , do the summary .\nProfessor A: Right . But , uh , I don't think that they 'll necessarily {disfmarker} you 'll {disfmarker} you 'll get many people willing to stay .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: But , you know , if you get even one {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: w\nProfessor D: Well , I think it 's like the note - taking thing ,\nPostdoc H: I would s Yeah .\nProfessor D: that {disfmarker} that y that you can't {disfmarker} certainly can't require it or people aren't gonna want to do this . But {disfmarker} but if there 's some cases where they will , then it would be helpful .\nPhD F: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc H: And I 'm also wondering , couldn't that be included in the data sample so that you could increase the num you know , the words that are , uh , recognized by a particular individual ? If you could include the person 's meeting stuff and also the person 's summary stuff , maybe that would be uh ,\nPhD E: Yeah . It 's kind of nice .\nPostdoc H: an ad addition to their database .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nPostdoc H: Under the same acoustic circumstance , cuz if they just walk next door with their set - up , nothing 's changed ,\nPhD E: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc H: just {disfmarker}\nPhD F: So I have a question about queries ,\nGrad G: God , that 's bugging me .\nPhD F: which is , um ,\nGrad G: Can we turn that light off ?\nPostdoc H: You turn {disfmarker}\nPhD F: uh {disfmarker}\nGrad G: If {disfmarker} can we turn that just {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that let {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: The fl the fluorescent light is flickering .\nPostdoc H: Uh , let the record show the light is flickering .\n",
      "PhD F: I don't know .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah , there 's a {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Oh , it is {disfmarker} it is like {disfmarker} OK .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad G: Very annoying .\nPhD F: There you go . OK .\nGrad G: Oh , much better .\nProfessor A: For a little while I thought it was just that I was really tired .\nProfessor C: Oh , yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: That 's better .\nPhD F: Good .\n",
      "Professor A: That and y {comment} Too much caffeine and really tired ,\nGrad G: Too much caffeine .\nProfessor A: but then I thought \" no , maybe that 's real \" .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD F: So ,\nGrad G: I thought it was the projector for a moment . It was like , \" what 's going on ? \"\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD F: the question I had about queries was , um , so what we 're planning to do is have people look at the summaries and then generate queries ? Are {disfmarker} are we gonna try and o\n",
      "Grad G: We {disfmarker} we 've just been talking , how do we generate queries ?\nPhD F: Yeah . Well , I mean ,\nGrad G: And so that was one suggestion .\nPhD F: so , the question I had is is have we given any thought to how we would generate queries automatically given a summary ? I mean , I think that 's a whole research topic un unto itself ,\nProfessor D: Mmm .\nPhD F: so that it may not be a feasible thing . But {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Hello . Dan here .\nPhD F: n\n",
      "PhD B: Shouldn't Landay and his group be in charge of figuring out how to do this ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: I mean , this is an issue that goes a little bit beyond where {pause} we are right now .\nPhD E: OK .\nPhD B: They 're the expert\nPhD E: Mari ?\nProfessor A: Yeah ?\nPhD E: Someone wants to know when you 're getting picked up . Is someone picking you up ?\nProfessor A: Um , {vocalsound} what 's our schedule ?\nProfessor D: Well , you still wanted to talk with Liz .\n",
      "Professor A: Let 's see , you and I need dis Uh , no , we did the Liz talk .\nProfessor D: And you and I need to Oh , oh . You already did the Liz talk .\nProfessor A: Yeah . So {disfmarker} so that was the prosody thing .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD B: We - {vocalsound} I don't remember it .\nProfessor A: Um , we need to finish the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Oh , OK .\nProfessor A: It 's already four - fifteen .\nPhD B: I have like no recall memory .\nProfessor A: Uh , after .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: We need to {pause} finish this discussion , and you and I need a little time for wrap - up and quad chart . So ,\nGrad G: And what ?\nProfessor A: um {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I 'm at your disposal . So , up to you .\nProfessor A: Um , what {disfmarker} what 's the plan for this discussion ? We should {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Um , I think we should be able to wind up in another half - hour or something , you think ?\nGrad G: At least . Yeah .\nProfessor A: Uh , less .\n",
      "Grad G: m i Even if that much ?\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Less ?\nGrad G: Less .\nProfessor A: So , I think {disfmarker}\nPhD B: It 's interesting that he 's got , like , {pause} this discussion free\nProfessor D: Well , I mean , we still haven't talked about the action items from here and so on .\nProfessor A: Action {disfmarker} Yeah .  So ,\nPhD B: yet it 's separate .\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: e e why don't you say five - thirty ? I don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: OK , five - thirty .\nProfessor A: Is that OK ? We 'll probably hit horrible traffic .\nPhD E: Sounds {disfmarker} OK . h Thanks , bye .\nProfessor A: That 's not a lot of time ,\nPhD E: That 's that .\nProfessor A: but {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Well , in answer to \" is it Landay 's problem ? \" , um , he doesn't have a student who 's interested right now in doing anything . So he has very little manpower . Um , there 's very little allocated for him and also he 's pretty focused on user interface . So I don't think he wants to do information retrieval , query generation , that sort of stuff .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , well there 's gonna be these student projects that can do some things but it can't be , yeah , very deep . u I {disfmarker} I actually think that {disfmarker} that , uh , again , just as a bootstrap , {comment} if we do have something like summaries , then having the people who are involved in the meetings themselves , who are cooperative and willing to do yet more , come up with {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with queries , uh , could at least give {disfmarker} give Landay an idea of the kind of things that people might want to know . I mean , ye Right ? If he doesn't know anything about the area , and {disfmarker} the people are talking about and {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: But the people will just look at the summaries or the minutes and re and sort of back - generate the queries . That 's what I 'm worried about . So you might as well just give him the summaries .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Maybe .\nPhD F: Well , I 'm not sure {disfmarker} I 'm not sure that 's a solved problem .\nGrad G: y Well , but I think {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Oh , OK .\n",
      "PhD F: Right ? Of how to {disfmarker} how to generate queries from a {disfmarker}\nPhD B: How to do this from the summary .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: I , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: That was sort of what my {pause} question was {pause} aimed towards .\nPhD B: So what you want to h to do is , people who were there , who later see , uh , minutes and s put in summary form , which is not gonna be at the same time as the meeting . There 's no way that can happen . Are we gonna later go over it\n",
      "Professor A: Hmm .\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD B: and , like , make up some stuff to which these notes would be an answer , or {disfmarker} or a deeper {disfmarker} Yeah . I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Or {disfmarker} or just a memory refresher .\nPhD B: But that 's done off {disfmarker} they have to do that off - line .\nGrad G: Yep . I agree .\nPhD B: You\n",
      "Postdoc H: I 'm also wondering if we could ask the {disfmarker} the people a {disfmarker} a question which would be \" what was the most interesting thing you got out of this meeting ? \" Becau - in terms of like informativeness ,\nPhD B: That 's a good one .\nPostdoc H: it might be , you know , that the summary would {disfmarker} would not in even include what the person thought was the most interesting fact .\nProfessor D: I would think that would be the most likely thing .\nPhD B: Dan doesn't know what sex he is .\nPhD E: Yeah , really .\n",
      "Professor A: But actually I would say that 's a better thing to ask than have them summarize the meeting .\nPostdoc H: I think you get two different types of information .\nProfessor A: You get two {disfmarker} Yeah , that 's true .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Because you get , like , the general structure of important points and what the {disfmarker} what the meeting was about .\nProfessor D: Hey .\nPhD B: Ah\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: We 're still here .\n",
      "Postdoc H: So you get the general structure , the important points of what the meeting was about {pause} with the summary . But with the \" what 's the most interesting thing you learned ? \" {disfmarker} Uh , so the fact that , uh , I know that Transcriber uses Snack is something that I thought was interesting\nPhD B: Going to see the kids .\nPhD E: You {disfmarker} you can keep it on .\n",
      "Postdoc H: and that {disfmarker} and that Dan worked on {disfmarker} on that . So I thought that was really {disfmarker} you know . So , I mean , you could ge pick up some of the micro items that wouldn't even occur as major headings\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: but could be very informative .\nProfessor A: Yeah , that 's actually a really good idea .\nPostdoc H: I think it wouldn't be too , uh , uh , cost - intensive either . You know , I mean , it 's like something someone can do pretty easily on the spur of the moment .\n",
      "Professor C: Are you thinking about just asking one participant or all of them ?\nGrad G: As many are willing to do it .\nProfessor C: Make it a voluntary thing ,\nPhD E: Yeah . Cuz you 'll get {disfmarker} cuz you 'll get very different answers from everybody , right ?\nProfessor C: and then {disfmarker} Yeah . That 's why I was wondering .\nPhD E: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Well , maybe one thing we could do is for the meetings we 've already done {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} we didn't take minutes and we don't have summaries . But , uh , people could , like , listen to them a little bit and {pause} generate some queries .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nGrad G: Of course Jane doesn't need to . I 'm sure you have that meeting memorized by now .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: But actually it would be an easy thing to just go around the room and say {pause} what was the most interesting thing you learned ,\n",
      "Grad G: Mmm .\nPostdoc H: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor A: for those pe people willing to stay .\nPostdoc H: And that {disfmarker} I think it would pick up the micro - structure , the {disfmarker} some {disfmarker} some of the little things that would be hidden .\nProfessor A: And {disfmarker} and that might be something people are willing to stay for .\nProfessor D: Boy , I {disfmarker} I don't know how we get at this {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: That would be interesting .\n",
      "Professor C: Yeah , but when you go around the room you might just get the effect that somebody says something\nGrad G: Or want to get up and leave .\nProfessor C: and then you go around the room and they say \" yeah , me too , I agree . \"\nGrad G: Me too , me too , me too .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: That 's fine .\nProfessor C: So {disfmarker}\nPhD E: On the other hand people might try and come up with different ones , right ?\nProfessor D: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: They might say \" oh , I was gonna say that one but now I have to think of something else \" .\nGrad G: Well , you have the other thing , that {disfmarker} that they know why we 're doing it . We 'll {disfmarker} I mean , we 'll {disfmarker} we 'll be telling them that the reason we 're trying to do this is {disfmarker} is to d generate queries in the future , so try to pick things that other people didn't say .\n",
      "Professor D: It 's gonna take some thought . I mean , It seemed {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The kind of , uh , interest that I had in this thing initially was , uh , that i basically the form that you 're doing something else {pause} later ,\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: and you want to pick up something from this meeting related to the something else . So it 's really the imp the {disfmarker} the list of what 's important 's in the something else\nProfessor A: Right .\nProfessor D: rather than the {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor D: And it might be something minor {disfmarker} of minor importance to the meeting .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Right .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh , in fact if {disfmarker} if it was really major , if it 's the thing that really stuck in your head , then you might not need to go back and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and check on it even . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's that you 're trying to find {disfmarker} {comment} You 're {disfmarker} you 've now {disfmarker} You weren't interested {disfmarker} Say I {disfmarker} I said \" well , I wasn't that much interested in dialogue , I 'm more of an acoustics person \" .\n",
      "PhD E: Right .\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker} but thr three months from now if for some reason I get really interested in dialogue , and I 'm \" well what is {disfmarker} what was that part that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that , uh , Mari was saying ? \"\nGrad G: Yeah , like Jim Bass says \" add a few lines on dialogue in your next perf \"\nProfessor A: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: And then I 'm trying to fi I mean , that 's {disfmarker} that 's when I look {disfmarker} in general when I look things up most , is when it 's something that {vocalsound} didn't really stick in my head the first time around and {disfmarker} but for some {comment} new reason I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm interested in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the old stuff .\nGrad G: But that {disfmarker} that 's gonna be very hard to generate .\n",
      "Professor A: Well , I {disfmarker} That 's hard to generate\nProfessor D: So , I don't {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Do we {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: and {disfmarker} and I think that 's half of what i I would use it for . But I also a lot of times um , make {disfmarker} you know , think to myself \" this is interesting ,\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: I 've gotta come back and follow up on it \" .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So , things that I think are interesting , um , I would be , uh , wanting to do a query about . And also , I like the idea of going around the room , because if somebody else thought something was interesting , I 'd kind of want to know about it and then I 'd want to follow up on it .\nPhD E: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . That {disfmarker} that might get at some of what I was {disfmarker} I was concerned about , uh , being interested in something later that w uh , I didn't consider to be important the first time , which for me is actually the dominant thing , because if I thought it was really important it tends to stick more than if I didn't , but some new {pause} task comes along that makes me want to look up .\nGrad G: But {disfmarker} But what 's interesting to me may not b have been interesting to you .\nProfessor D: Yeah . So having multiple people might get at some of that .\n",
      "Grad G: By {disfmarker} so by going around {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I think {pause} you can't get at all of it ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: right ? W we just need to start somewhere .\nProfessor D: Yeah , and this is a starting point .\nPostdoc H: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD F: The question {disfmarker} the question then is h h how much bias do we introduce by {disfmarker} you know , introduce by saying , you know , this was important now and , you know , maybe tha something else is important later ?\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: I mean , does it {disfmarker} does the bias matter ? I {disfmarker} I don't know . I mean , uh , that 's , I guess , a question for you guys . But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc H: Well , and {disfmarker} and one thing , we {disfmarker} we 're saying \" important \" and we 're saying \" interesting \" .\nPhD F: Uh , yeah , yeah .\nPostdoc H: And {disfmarker} and those {disfmarker} those can be two different things .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Sure , sure . But I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess that 's the question , really , is that {disfmarker} I mean ,\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: W\n",
      "PhD F: does building queries based on what 's important now introduce an irreversible bias on being able to do what Morgan wants to do later ?\nProfessor D: Well , irreversible .\nPostdoc H: OK , good .\nPhD F: That 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , I guess what I what I {disfmarker} I keep coming back to in my own mind is that , um , the soonest we can do it , we need to get up some kind of system\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Professor D: so that people who 've been involved in the meeting can go back later , even if it 's a poor system in some ways , and , uh {disfmarker} and ask the questions that they actually want to know . If {disfmarker} you know , if {disfmarker} uh , as soon as we can get that going at any kind of level , then I think we 'll have a much better handle on what kind of questions people want to ask than in any {disfmarker} anything we do before that . But obviously we have to bootstrap somehow ,\nProfessor A: Right .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Sure .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD F: I agree .\nPostdoc H: I will say that {disfmarker} that I {disfmarker} I chose \" interesting \" because I think it includes also \" important \" in some cases . But , um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I feel like the summary gets {pause} at a different type of information .\nPhD F: I think \" important \" can often be uninteresting .\nProfessor A: Mmm .\nPhD E: Mmm . And \" interesting \" is more interesting than \" important \" .\n",
      "Grad G: Hmm .\nPostdoc H: Well , and {disfmarker} and also {disfmarker} i it puts a lot of burden on the person to {disfmarker} to evaluate . You know , I think inter \" interesting \" is {disfmarker} is non - threatening in {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: OK - OK .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor A: In the interest of , um ,\nGrad G: Importance ?\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor A: generati {comment} generating an interesting summary , {comment} um {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor A: No , i in the interest of generating some minutes here , uh , and also moving on to action items and other things , let me just go through the things that I wrote down as being important , um , that we at least decided on . CrossPads we were going to try , um , if Landay can get the , uh {disfmarker} get them to {disfmarker} to you guys , um , and see if they 're interesting . And if they are , then we 'll try to get m do it more . Um , getting electronic summary from a note - taking person if they happen to do it anyway .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Um , getting {pause} just , uh , digital pictures {disfmarker} a couple digital pictures of the {disfmarker} the table and boards to set the context of the meeting . Uh , and then going around the room at the end to just say {disfmarker} qu ask people to mention something interesting that they learned . So rather than say the most interesting thing , something interesting ,\nPostdoc H: k\nProfessor A: and that way you 'll get more variety .\nPostdoc H: Sure .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad G: I wouldn't even say that \" that they learned \" .\nPostdoc H: That 's good . I like that . I like that .\nProfessor A: OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Uh , you might want to mention something that {disfmarker} that you brought up .\nProfessor A: \" Thing {pause} that was {pause} discussed . \" And then the last thing c would be for those people who are willing to stay afterwards and give an oral summary .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: OK ? Does that pretty much cover everything we talked about ? That {disfmarker} well , that we want to do ?\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm . A And one {disfmarker} and one qualification on {disfmarker} on the oral summaries . They 'd be s they 'd be separate . They wouldn't be hearing each other 's summaries .\nProfessor A: OK .\nGrad G: Yeah , that 's like {disfmarker} n I think that 's gonna predominantly end up being whoever {pause} takes down the equipment then .\n",
      "Postdoc H: And {disfmarker} and that would also be that the data would be included in the database .\nGrad G: Yeah , that would be , let 's see , me .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: I mean , there is still this hope that people might actually think of real queries they really want to ask at some point .\nPostdoc H: OK .\nPhD E: And that if {disfmarker} if that ever should happen , then we should try and write them down .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Right .\n",
      "Professor C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Give them a reward , a dollar a query ?\nPhD E: Yeah , really .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: If they 're real queries .\nProfessor A: OK . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Well , and again , if we can figure out a way to jimmy a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a very rough system , say in a year , then {disfmarker} uh , so that in the second and third years we {disfmarker} we actually have something to {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Play with and generate real queries from .\nProfessor D: ask queries .\nProfessor A: Right . OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor A: So . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I think {disfmarker} I just wanted to say one thing about queries . I mean , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} the level of the query could be , you know , very low - level or very high - level . And it gets fuzzier and fuzzier as you go up , right ?\n",
      "Grad G: Well , we 're gonna {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So you need to have some sort of {disfmarker} if you start working with queries , some way of identifying what the {disfmarker} you know , if this is something that requires a {disfmarker} a one - word answer or it 's one place in the recording versus was there general agreement on this issue of all the people who ha\nPhD E: Hmm .\nPhD B: You know , you can gen you can ask queries that are meaningful for people .\nGrad G: Yep .\n",
      "PhD B: In fact , they 're very meaningful cuz they 're very high - level . But they won't exist anywhere in the {pause} a you know {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Absolutely . So I think we 're gonna have to start with keywords\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: and {disfmarker} and if someone becomes more interested we could work our way up .\nProfessor D: I I 'm {disfmarker} I I 'm not so sure I agree with that .\nPhD B: It {disfmarker} But it may well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Because {disfmarker} uh , b because it depends on , uh , what our goal is .\nGrad G: Really ?\nProfessor D: If our goal is Wizard of Oz - ish , we might want to know what is it that people would really like to know about this data .\nGrad G: Oh , that 's true .\nProfessor D: And if it 's {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if it 's something that we don't know how to do yet , th great ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: that 's , you know , research project for year four or something .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Research , yeah .\nProfessor D: You know ?\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Yeah , I was thinking about Wizard of Oz , but it requires the wizard to know all about the meetings .\nPhD E: We 'd have to listen to all the data .\nProfessor D: Um , well , not {disfmarker} maybe not true Wizard of Oz\nGrad G: So .\nProfessor D: because people are too\nGrad G: Oh , yeah . I {disfmarker} I understand .\n",
      "Professor D: uh , aware of what 's going on .\nPhD E: Well just imagine if {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker} but just {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Get people to ask questions that they def the machine definitely can't answer at the moment ,\nProfessor D: Yeah . w Just \" what would you like to know ? \"\nPhD E: but {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yep .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad G: But that {disfmarker} neither could anyone else , though , is what , uh , my point is .\nPhD E: Yes .\n",
      "Postdoc H: I I was wondering if {disfmarker} if there might be one s more source of queries which is indicator phrases like \" action item \" ,\nProfessor A: OK .\nPostdoc H: which could be obtained from the text {disfmarker} from the transcript .\nGrad G: Right . Since we have the transcript .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nGrad G: Dates maybe . I don't know . That 's something I always forget .\nPostdoc H: Yeah , that 's something to be determined , something to be specified ,\n",
      "PhD B: Well , probably if you have to sit there at the end of a meeting and say one thing you remember , it 's probably whatever action item was assigned to you .\nPostdoc H: but text - oriented .\nPhD B: I mean , in gen that 's all I remember from most meetings .\nGrad G: That {disfmarker} that 's all I wrote down .\nPostdoc H: I think you 'd remember that , yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: So , in general , I mean , that could be something you could say , right ? I 'm supposed to {pause} do this . It {disfmarker} it doesn't {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Yeah , that 's true . Well , but then you could {disfmarker} you could prompt them to say , you know , \" other than your action item \" , you know , whatever .\nPhD E: Well {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: But {disfmarker} but the action item would be a way to get , uh , maybe an additional query .\n",
      "PhD B: I mean , that 's realistically what people might {pause} well be remembering .\nPostdoc H: So .\nPhD B: So .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nPostdoc H: Yeah . Well , but {disfmarker} you know , but you could get again @ @ {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Well , we 're piloting . We 'll just do it and see what happens .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: I usually don't remember my action items . But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I 'd {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: OK - OK . Speaking of action items , can we move on to action items ?\nProfessor D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Sure . Can you hand me my note pad ?\nPostdoc H: Yeah . yeah .\nProfessor A: Um , or maybe we should wait until the summary of this {disfmarker} until this meeting is transcribed and then we will hav\nProfessor D: We {disfmarker} we had {disfmarker} I mean ,\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . Then we 'll know .\nGrad G: Thanks .\nProfessor D: somewhere up there we had milestones , but I guess {disfmarker} Did y did you get enough milestone , uh , from the description things ?\nProfessor A: I got {disfmarker} Yeah . In fact , why don't you hand me those transparencies so that I remember to take them . eee ,\nProfessor D: OK .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: And , you know , there 's obviously {pause} detail behind each of those , as much as is needed . So , you just have to {pause} let us know .\n",
      "Professor A: OK . What I have down for action items is we 're supposed to find out about our human subject , um , {vocalsound} requirements .\nPostdoc H: Good .\nProfessor A: Uh ,\nGrad G: Yep .\nProfessor A: people are supposed to send me U R for their {disfmarker} for web pages , to c and I 'll put together an overall cover . And you 're s\nPhD E: Right . We {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Hmm ?\nPhD E: we need to look at our web page\n",
      "Professor A: And {disfmarker} and you also need to look at your web page\nPhD E: and make one that 's {disfmarker} that 's p\nProfessor A: and clean it up by mid - July .\nPhD E: PDA - free .\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Um ,\nProfessor D: Right .\nProfessor A: let 's see . Choo - choo - choo . We {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Mailing lists .\nProfessor A: Mailing list ? Uh , you need to put together a mailing list .\nProfessor D: Three of them .\n",
      "Professor A: Uh , I think w\nProfessor D: Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I mean ,\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: uh ,\nProfessor A: Um ,\nProfessor D: mostly together .\nProfessor A: uh , I need to email Adam or Jane , um , about getting the data . Who should I email ?\nGrad G: Uh , how quickly do you want it ?\nProfessor A: Um .\nGrad G: My July is really very crowded . And so , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: How about if I just c Uh , Right now all I want {disfmarker} I personally only want text data . I think the only thing Jeff would do anything with right now {disfmarker} But I 'm just speaking fr based on a conversation with him two weeks ago I had in Turkey . But I think all he would want is the digits . Um , but I 'll just speak for myself . I 'm interested in getting the language model data . Eh , so I 'm just interested in getting transcriptions .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: So then just email you ?\n",
      "Postdoc H: OK . So y Sure , sure , sure .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: Wh\nPostdoc H: You could email to both of us , uh , just {disfmarker} I mean , if you wanted to .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: I mean , I don't think either of us would mind recei\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: i\nGrad G: That 's right .\nPostdoc H: but {disfmarker} but in any case I 'd be happy to send you the {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: And your email is ?\nProfessor D: i\n",
      "Postdoc H: Edwards at ICSI .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: w\nGrad G: Dot Berkeley dot EDU , of course .\nProfessor A: And then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: In {disfmarker} in our phone call , uh , before , we {disfmarker} we , uh {disfmarker} It turns out the way we 're gonna send the data is by , uh , And , uh {disfmarker} and then what they 're gonna do is take the CD - ROM and transfer it to analog tape and {vocalsound} give it to a transcription service , uh , that will {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Oh , is this IBM ?\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: Yeah , using foot pedals\nProfessor D: Yeah , foot {disfmarker} foot pedals\n",
      "Postdoc H: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Uh , so do they {disfmarker} How are they gonna do the multi - channel ?\nProfessor D: See , that 's a good question .\nPostdoc H: Yeah . They {disfmarker} they don't have a way .\nGrad G: I thought so .\nProfessor D: No , I mean , it 'll be\nPostdoc H: But they have a verification .\nProfessor D: probably about like you did ,\nGrad G: Mix ?\n",
      "Professor D: and then there will be some things {disfmarker} you know , many things that don't work out well . And that 'll go back to IBM and they 'll {disfmarker} they 'll , uh {disfmarker} they run their aligner on it and it kicks out things that don't work well , which {disfmarker} you know , the overlaps will certainly be examples of that . And , uh {disfmarker} I mean , what w we will give them all of it . Right ?\nGrad G: OK . That 's , uh , my question .\n",
      "Professor D: We 'll give them all the {disfmarker} the multi - channel stuff\nGrad G: So we 'll give them all sixteen channels\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker}\nGrad G: and they 'll do whatever they want with it .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: But you also should probably give them the mixed {disfmarker} You know , equal sound - level {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah . {vocalsound} Good idea .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: I mean , they 're not gonna easily be able to do that , probably .\n",
      "Grad G: It 's not hard .\nProfessor D: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Ah , yeah .\nGrad G: So .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: It 's also won't be adding much to the data to give them the mixed .\nPhD F: But w\nPhD B: I\nPhD F: It 's not {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD F: Right . It doesn't {disfmarker} it isn't difficult for us to do ,\nGrad G: Yep . Absolutely .\nPhD B: i You should {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: so we might as well just do it .\nPhD B: You should {disfmarker} that may be all that they want to send off to their {pause} transcribers .\nGrad G: Absolutely . So , sure .\nProfessor A: OK . Related to {disfmarker} to the conversation with Picheny , I need to email him , uh , my shipping address and you need to email them something which you already did .\n",
      "Postdoc H: I did . I {disfmarker} I m emailed them the Transcriber URL , um , the on - line , uh , data that Adam set up , The URL so they can click on an utterance and hear it . and I emailed them the str streamlined conventions which you got a copy of today .\n",
      "Professor D: Right . And I was gonna m email them the {disfmarker} which I haven't yet , a pointer to {disfmarker} to the web pages that we {disfmarker} that we currently have , cuz in particular they want to see the one with the {disfmarker} the way the recording room is set up\nPostdoc H: Good .\nProfessor D: and so on , your {disfmarker} your page on that .\nPostdoc H: Oh , excellent . Good .\nGrad G: And then p possibly {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc H: I C - I CC ' ed Morgan . I should have sent {disfmarker} I should have CC ' ed you as well .\nProfessor A: OK .\nGrad G: Not an immediate action item but something we do have to worry about is data formats for {disfmarker} for higher - level information .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: Oh , yeah . We were gonna {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Well , or d or not even higher level , different level , prosody and all that sort of stuff . We 're gonna have to figure out how we 're gonna annotate that .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . We never had our data format discussion .\nProfessor D: Yeah , we w Right .\nPostdoc H: Oh , I thought we did . We discussed , uh , musi musical score notation\nProfessor A: Oh , OK .\nGrad G: But that 's not {disfmarker} That 's display .\nPostdoc H: and {disfmarker} and its XML {disfmarker}\nGrad G: That 's different than format .\nProfessor A: That 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Well , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor A: W My {disfmarker} my u feeling right now on format is you guys have been doing all the work\nPhD E: Well {disfmarker} uh , yeah .\nProfessor A: and whatever you want , we 're happy to live with .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Um ,\nPostdoc H: OK , excellent .\nProfessor A: other people may not agree with that ,\nProfessor D: OK . So , what n important thing {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: but {disfmarker} Cuz I 'm not actually touching the data ,\nPostdoc H: Well , it c\nPhD E: Right .\n",
      "Professor A: so I shouldn't be the one to talk . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: No , I think that 's fine .\nProfessor D: So a key thing will be that you {disfmarker} we tell you\nPostdoc H: Great .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: what it is . Uh , we also had {disfmarker}\nPhD F: \" Here 's a mysterious file\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD F: and {disfmarker} \"\n",
      "Professor D: We also had the , uh , uh {disfmarker} that we were s uh , that you were gonna get us the eight - hundred number\nProfessor A: Oh , yeah .\nProfessor D: and we 're all gonna {disfmarker} we 're gonna call up your Communicator thing and {disfmarker} and we 're gonna be good slash bad , depending on how you define it , uh , users .\n",
      "Professor C: Now , something that I mentioned earlier to Mari and Liz is that it 's probably important to get as many non - technical and non - speech people as possible in order to get some realistic users . So if you could ask other people to call and use our system , that 'd be good . Cuz we don't want people who already know how to deal with dialogue systems ,\nProfessor A: Yeah . Or , {vocalsound} like if you have a {disfmarker}\nProfessor C: who know that you shouldn't hyper - articulate , for instance , and things like that .\n",
      "Professor A: Or , like if you have somebody who makes your {disfmarker} your plane reservations for you ,\nProfessor C: So .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor A: um , which is\nProfessor D: Yeah , we can do that .\nProfessor A: the n\nGrad G: Get my parents to do it .\nProfessor A: Yeah . Yeah . Seriously .\nProfessor C: Yeah , for instance .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Your grandmother .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: Yeah . e You know , it could {pause} result in some good bloopers , which is always good for presentations . So {disfmarker} Um , anyway {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah . \nGrad G: I think my father would last through the second prompt before he hang {disfmarker} hung up .\nProfessor A: Mmm .\nProfessor D: My mother would have a very interesting conversation with it\nGrad G: He would never use it .\nProfessor D: but it wouldn't have anything to do with the travel .\nProfessor A: OK . Um , other {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: OK .\n",
      "Professor A: Let 's see , other action items . So I have the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: We talked about that we 're getting the recording equipment running at UW . And so it depends , w e e e they 're {disfmarker} you know , they 're p m If that comes together within the next month , there at least will be , uh , uh , major communications between Dan and {vocalsound} UW folks\nPhD E: Yeah . I mean ,\n",
      "Professor A: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm shooting to try to get it done {disfmarker} get it put together by {pause} the beginning of August .\nProfessor D: as to {disfmarker}\nPhD E: we should talk about it , but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Mmm .\nProfessor A: So , um , you know , if\n",
      "Professor D: But we have {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's pretty {disfmarker} We don't know . I mean , he {disfmarker} he s uh , he said that it was sitting in some room collecting dust\nProfessor A: We don't know .\nProfessor D: and {disfmarker} and so we don't know ,\nProfessor A: i It 's probably unlikely that we 'll pull this off ,\nProfessor D: i e\nProfessor A: but a at least it 's worth trying .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm . What is it ?\n",
      "Professor D: We don't know .\nGrad G: Oh , OK .\nProfessor D: \" Recording equipment . \"\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad G: It 's a tape recorder .\nProfessor D: W We know it 's eight channels . Uh , we know it 's digital .\nGrad G: It 's eight tape recorders .\nProfessor D: We don't even know if there 're microphones . So , we 'll find out .\n",
      "Professor A: OK . Um , and I will email these notes {disfmarker} Um , I 'm not sure what to do about action items for the data stuff , although , then somebody {disfmarker} I guess somebody needs to tell Landay that you want the pads .\nProfessor D: Yeah , OK . I 'll do that .\nProfessor A: OK .\nProfessor D: Um , and he also said something about outside {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} that came up about the outside text sources , that he {disfmarker} he may have\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Oh !\n",
      "Professor D: some text sources that are close enough to the sort of thing that we can play with them for a language model .\nProfessor C: Hmm .\nPhD E: Yeah , that was {disfmarker} uh , that was {disfmarker} What he was saying was this {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} this thing that , uh , Jason had been working on finds web pages that are thematically related to what you 're talking about . Well , that 's the idea . So that that {disfmarker} that would be a source of text which is {disfmarker} supposedly got the right vocabulary .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Right .\nPhD E: But it 's obviously very different material . It 's not spoken material , for instance ,\nProfessor D: Yeah . But it 's p it might be {disfmarker}\nPhD E: so {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: But {disfmarker} but that 's actually what I wanna do . That 's {disfmarker} that 's what I wanna work with ,\nPhD E: OK .\nProfessor A: is {disfmarker} is things that s the wrong material but the right da the right source .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Un - unfortunately Landay told me that Jason is not gonna be working on that anymore .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nGrad G: He 's switching to other stuff again .\nProfessor A: Yeah . He seemed {disfmarker} when I asked him if he could actually supply data , he seemed a little bit more reluctant . So , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll send him email . I 'll put it in an action item that I send him email about it . And if I get something , great . If I don't get something {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Who ? Landay or Jason ?\nProfessor A: Landay . And , uh , um ,\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad G: OK .\nProfessor A: you know , otherwise , if you guys have any papers or {disfmarker} I could {disfmarker} I could use , uh {disfmarker} I could use your web pages . That 's what we could do . You 've got all the web pages on the Meeting Recor\nProfessor D: Yeah , why search for them ?\nProfessor A: Yeah !\nProfessor D: They 're {disfmarker} we know where they are .\nGrad G: True .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , that 's true .\nGrad G: Absolutely .\nProfessor A: Oh , forget this !\nPhD E: Sure .\nGrad G: Well , but that 's not very much .\nProfessor A: I {disfmarker} One less action item . I can use what web pages there are out there on meeting recorders .\nGrad G: Yep .\nPhD E: Right .\nGrad G: I mean , that {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Basically what his software does is h it picks out keywords and does a Google - like search .\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . So we can {disfmarker} we can {disfmarker} we can do better than that .\nPhD E: We can do that . Yeah .\nGrad G: So you could {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: There 's {disfmarker} there 's some , uh , Carnegie Mellon stuff , right ? On {disfmarker} on meeting recording ,\nGrad G: Yep .\nPhD B: And Xerox .\nProfessor A: So , there 's {disfmarker} there 's ICSI , Xerox ,\n",
      "Professor D: and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: And there 's {disfmarker} You should l look under , like , intelligent environments ,\nProfessor D: And Xerox . Yeah .\nPhD B: smart rooms ,\nGrad G: Um , the \" Georgia Tech Classroom Two Thousand \" is a good one .\nPhD B: um {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: CMU ,\nPhD B: Right . And then {disfmarker} Right . J There 's {disfmarker} th That 's where I thought you would want to eventually be able to have a board or a camera ,\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: because of all these classroom {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Well , Georgia Tech did a very elaborate instrumented room .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad G: And I want to try to stay away from that . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: OK . Great . That solves that problem . One less action item . Um {disfmarker} OK . I think that 's good enou that 's {disfmarker} that 's pretty much all I can think of .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Can I ask , uh , one thing ? It relates to data {disfmarker} data collection and I {disfmarker} and I 'd {disfmarker} and we mentioned earlier today , this question of {disfmarker} um , so , um , I s I know that from {disfmarker} with the near - field mikes some of the problems that come with overlapping speech , uh , are lessened . But I wonder if {disfmarker} Uh , is that sufficient or should we consider maybe getting some data gathered in such a way that , um , u w we would c uh , p have a meeting with less overlap than would otherwise be the case ? So either by rules of participation , or whatever .\n",
      "Professor A: Oh , yeah .\nPostdoc H: Now , I mean , you know , it 's true , I mean , we were discussing this earlier , that depending on the task {disfmarker} so if you 've got someone giving a report you 're not gonna have as much overlap .\nPhD F: Adam !\nPostdoc H: But , um , i i uh , so we 're gonna have s you know , non - overlapping samples anyway . But , um , in a meeting which would otherwise be highly overlapping , is the near - field mike enough or should we have some rules of participation for some of our samples to lessen the overlap ?\n",
      "Professor D: Hmm .\nPhD E: turn off\nProfessor A: I don't think we should have rules of participation , but I think we should try to {pause} get a variety of meetings . That 's something that if we get the {disfmarker} the meeting stuff going at UW , that I probably can do more than you guys ,\nPostdoc H: OK .\nProfessor A: cuz you guys are probably mostly going to get ICSI people here . But we can get anybody in EE , uh , over {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor A: and {disfmarker} and possibly also some CS people , uh , over at UW . So , I think that {disfmarker} that there 's a good chance we could get more variety .\nPostdoc H: OK . Just want to be sure there 's enough data to {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Um ,\nPhD B: They 're still gonna overlap ,\nPostdoc H: OK , good .\n",
      "PhD B: but {disfmarker} Mark and others have said that there 's quite a lot of found data {comment} from the discourse community that has this characteristic and also the political {disfmarker} Y you know , anything that was televised for a third party has the characteristic of not very much overlap .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Wasn - but w I think we were saying before also that the natural language group here had less overlap .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So .\nProfessor D: So it also depends on the style of the group of people .\n",
      "Professor A: Right .\nPhD B: Like the , um , dominance relations of the people in the meeting .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm . On the task , and the task .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc H: It 's just {disfmarker} I just wanted to {disfmarker} uh ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPostdoc H: because you know , it is true people can modify the amount of overlap that they do if {disfmarker} if they 're asked to .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Not {disfmarker} not entirely modify it , but lessen it if {disfmarker} if it 's desired . But if {disfmarker} if that 's sufficient data {disfmarker} I just wanted to be sure that we will not be having a lot of data which can't be processed .\nProfessor A: OK . So I 'm just writing here , we 're not gonna try to specify rules of interaction but we 're gonna try to get more variety by i using different {pause} groups of people\nPostdoc H: Time .\nProfessor A: and different sizes .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Fine . And I {disfmarker} you know , I {disfmarker} I know that the near f near - field mikes will take care of also the problems to s to a certain degree .\nProfessor A: e e Yeah . And then the other thing might be , um , uh , technical versus administrative .\nPostdoc H: I just wanted to be sure .\nProfessor A: Cuz if I recorded some administrative meetings then that may have less overlap , because you might have more overlap when you 're doing something technical and disagreeing or whatever .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Well , I {disfmarker} just as {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} as a contributary {disfmarker} eh , so I {disfmarker} I know that in l in legal depositions people are pr are prevented from overlapping . They 'll just say , you know {disfmarker} you know , \" wait till each person is finished before you say something \" . So it is possible to lessen if we wanted to . But {disfmarker} but these other factors are fine . I just wanted to raise the issue .\n",
      "Professor A: Well , the reason why I didn't want to is be why I personally didn't want to {comment} is because I wanted it to be {pause} as , uh , unintrusive as possi\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor A: as you could be with these things hanging on you .\nPostdoc H: Oh , yeah . Yeah , I think that 's always desired . I just want to be sure we don't {disfmarker} that we 're able to process , i u uh , you know , as much data as we can . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . Did they discuss any of that in the {disfmarker} the meeting they had with L Liberman ?\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: What {disfmarker}\nPhD B: And there was a big division ,\nProfessor D: What {disfmarker} what do they {disfmarker}\nPhD B: so Liberman and others {pause} were interested in a lot of found data .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: So there 's lots of recordings that {disfmarker} They 're not close - talk mike ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: but {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and there 's lots of television , you know , stuff on , um , political debates and things like that , congre congressional hearings . Boring stuff like that . Um , and then the CMU folks and I were sort of on the other side in {disfmarker} cuz they had collected a lot of meetings that were sort of like this and said that those are nothing like these meetings . Um , so there 're really two different kinds of data . And , I guess we just left it as {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} that {pause} if there 's found data that can be transformed for use in speech recognition easily , then of course we would do it ,\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: but newly collected data would {disfmarker} would be natural meetings . So .\nProfessor D: Actually , th @ @ {comment} the CMU folk have collected a lot of data . Is that {disfmarker} is that going to be publicly available ,\nPhD B: As far as I know , they h have not .\nProfessor D: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: Um , but e\nProfessor D: OK .\nGrad G: It 's also {disfmarker} it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not near - far , right ?\n",
      "PhD B: I 'm not sure . Um , if people were interested they could talk to them , but I {disfmarker} I got the feeling there was some politics involved .\nGrad G: I think @ @ gonna add that to one of my action items .\nPhD B: No .\nProfessor D: Just to check .\nPhD B: I {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor D: Yeah . W we should know what 's out there certainly .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nPhD B: I mean , the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Cuz I had thought they 'd only done far - field ,\n",
      "PhD B: I think you need to talk to Waibel and {disfmarker}\nGrad G: intelligent - room sorts of things .\nPhD E: Oh , really ? It 's those guys .\nGrad G: I hadn't known that then {disfmarker} they 'd done any more than that .\nProfessor D: Oh , they only did the far - field ? I see .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nPhD B: But they had multiple mikes and they did do recognition , and they did do real conversations . But as far as I know they didn't offer that data to the community at this meeting .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: But that could change cuz Mark {disfmarker} you know , Mark 's really into this . We should keep in touch with him .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Well , once we send out {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Yeah , I think {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I mean , we still haven't sent out the first note saying \" hey , this list exists \" . But {disfmarker} but , uh , once we do that {disfmarker}\nProfessor A: Is that an action item ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . It 's on {disfmarker} I already added that one on my board to do that . So , uh {disfmarker} uh , hopefully everybody here is on that list . We should at least check that everybody here {disfmarker} ?\nGrad G: I think everyone here is on the list .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD F: I 'm not .\nPostdoc H: u e e\nGrad G: I think you are .\nProfessor D: We haven't sent anything to the list yet .\nPhD F: Oh ! OK .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nProfessor D: We 're just compiling the list .\n",
      "PhD F: I see .\nGrad G: I {disfmarker} I added a few people who didn't {disfmarker} who I knew had to be on it even though they didn't tell me .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Who specifically ask not to be .\nGrad G: Like Jane , for example .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: You are on it , aren't you ?\nPostdoc H: Yeah , I am .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc H: So , I w uh , just {disfmarker} just for clarification . So \" found data \" , they mean like established corpora of linguistics and {disfmarker} and other fields , right ?\nPhD B: What they mean is stuff they don't have to fund to collect ,\nPostdoc H: It sounds like such a t\nPhD B: and especially good {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Yeah , OK .\n",
      "PhD B: Well , I mean , \" found \" has , uh , also the meaning that 's it very natural . It 's things occur without any {disfmarker} You know , the pe these people weren't wearing close - talking mikes , but they were recorded anyway , like the congressional hearings and , you know , for legal purposes or whatever .\nPostdoc H: OK . But it includes like standard corpora that have been used for years in linguistics and {pause} other fields .\nPhD B: Mark 's aware of those , too .\nPhD E: \" Hey , look what we found ! \"\nPostdoc H: OK .\n",
      "PhD B: That would be found data because they found it {vocalsound} and it exists .\nGrad G: Hmm .\nPostdoc H: Exactly .\nPhD E: \" I found this great corpora . \" Yeah .\nPhD B: They didn't have to collect it . Of course it 's not \" found \" in the sense that at the time it was collected for the purpose .\nGrad G: \" Psst . {comment} Want to buy a corpora ? \"\nPostdoc H: Yeah . OK , OK .\n",
      "PhD B: But what he means is that {disfmarker} You know , Mark was really a fan of getting as much data as possible from {disfmarker} you know , reams and reams of stuff , of broadcast stuff ,\nPostdoc H: That 's interesting .\nPhD B: web stuff ,\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: TV stuff , radio stuff . But he well understands that that 's very different than these {disfmarker} this type of meeting .\nGrad G: It 's not the same .\n",
      "PhD B: But , so what ? It 's still {disfmarker} it 's interesting for other reasons .\nPostdoc H: OK . Yeah . Just wanted to know .\nProfessor D: So , seems like we 're winding down .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Right ? Many {pause} ways .\nPhD B: You can {pause} tell {pause} by the {pause} prosody .\nPhD E: So we should go {disfmarker} go around and s\nProfessor A: Yeah .\nPhD E: We should go around and say something interesting that happened at the meeting ?\n",
      "Professor A: Oh . Yes , we should do that .\nPhD B: Rrrh !\nGrad G: Now , I was already thinking about it , so {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Oh ! Good man .\nPhD B: This is painful task .\nProfessor C: Hmm .\nPhD B: I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: So , um , I really liked the idea of {disfmarker} what I thought was interesting was the combination of the CrossPad and the speech . Especially , um , the interaction of them rather than just note - taking . So , can you {pause} determine the interesting points by who 's writing ? Can you do special gestures and so on that {disfmarker} that have , uh , special meaning to the corpora ? I really liked that .\n",
      "Postdoc H: Well , I {disfmarker} I just realized there 's another category of interesting things which is that , um , I {disfmarker} I found this discussion very , uh , i this {disfmarker} this question of how you get at queries really interesting . And {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} and the fact that it 's sort of , uh , nebulous , what {disfmarker} what that {disfmarker} what kind of query it would be because it depends on what your purpose is . So I actually found that whole process of {disfmarker} of trying to think of what that would involve to be interesting . But that 's not really a specific fact . I just sort of thought we {disfmarker} we went around a nice discussion of the factors involved there , which I thought was worthwhile .\n",
      "PhD E: I had a real revelation about taking pictures . I don't know why I didn't do this before and I regret it . So that was very interesting for me .\nPostdoc H: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Did you take pictures of the boards ?\nPhD E: Not that I {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nPhD E: The boards aren't really related to this meeting . I mean , I will take pictures of them , but {disfmarker}\nPostdoc H: That 's a good point .\nProfessor A: They 're related to this morning 's meeting .\nPhD E: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc H: Yeah .\nGrad G: To the pre previous meeting . That 's right .\nPhD E: OK . Well , that 's why I 'll take pictures of them , then .\nPhD F: I 'm gonna pass because I can't {disfmarker} I mean , of the {disfmarker} Jane took my answer .\nGrad G: Ah !\nPhD F: So .\nPostdoc H: Oh .\nPhD F: Um , so I 'm gonna pass for the moment but y come {disfmarker} come back to me .\nPhD E: For the moment .\nPhD B: Pass .\n",
      "Professor A: I think {disfmarker} I think \" pass \" is socially acceptable . But I will say {disfmarker} uh , I will actually {disfmarker} uh , a spin on different {disfmarker} slightly different spin on what you said , this issue of , uh , realizing that we could take minutes , and that actually may be a goal . So that {disfmarker} that may be kind of the test {disfmarker} in a sense , test data , uh , the {disfmarker} the template of what we want to test against , generating a summary . So that 's an interesting new twist on what we can do with this data .\n",
      "Professor C: I agree with Jane and Eric . I think the question of how to generate queries automatically was the most interesting question that came up , and it 's something that , as you said , is a whole research topic in itself , so I don't think we 'll be able to do anything on it because we don't have funding on it , uh , in this project . But , um , {vocalsound} it 's definitely something I would {pause} want to do something on .\nGrad G: I wonder if work 's already been done on it .\nPostdoc H: Like e expert systems and stuff ,\nProfessor D: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc H: or {disfmarker} ? Uh - huh .\nProfessor D: Well , being more management lately than {disfmarker} {vocalsound} than research , I think the thing that impressed me most was the people dynamics and not any of the facts . That is , I {disfmarker} I really enjoyed hanging out with this group of people today . So that 's what really impressed me .\nPhD E: How are we gonna find that in the data ?\nGrad G: Well , if we had people wearing the wireless mikes all the time {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Oh , yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah , I think {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Well , I mean , one thing you could search for is were people laughing a lot .\nPhD E: Right .\nPhD F: Right ? So .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: How happy were they ?\nProfessor D: I 'd probably search for something like that .\nGrad G: That actually has come up a couple times in queries . I was talking to Landay\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: and that was one of his examples .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad G: When {disfmarker} when did people laugh ?\nPhD E: That 's great .\n",
      "Professor D: Find me a funny thing that Jeff said . Yeah .\nGrad G: So we need a laugh detector .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Perfect .\nPostdoc H: Yeah .\nGrad G: Cuz that seems to be pretty common . Not in the congressional hearings .\nPhD F: No .\nGrad G: Quiet sobbing .\nProfessor D: So I think we 're done .\nProfessor A: OK .\nPhD E: OK .\nProfessor A: Great .\nPhD E: Great .\nPhD F: OK .\nGrad G: I think we 're done .\nProfessor D: Great .\n"
    ],
    "length": 29901,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 73,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The team discussed SRI experiments, multi-band approaches, latency, VAD, and noise addition. The mean subtraction approach for SRI that relied on a twelve second interval resulted in a zero point three percent improvement over the six second model, not necessarily significant. The team thought that training the model on different speeds of speech would be helpful to add to this progress. Grad A introduced the team to her formal proposal for the qualifier exam. The work focused on intermediate classifiers and multi-band graphical models for speech recognition. The team then discussed noise removal as well The model PhD B was working on did not do well in non-stationary noise environments. In general, however, the model had improved. The VAD was labeling speech as silence segments, which could be attributed to alignment issues. The team thought that noise addition techniques might help the model.",
    "docs": [
      "PhD F: And we 're on .\nProfessor D: OK . Might wanna {vocalsound} close the door so that {disfmarker} Uh , Stephane will {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I 'll get it .\nProfessor D: Yeah\nPhD F: Hey Dave ? Could you go ahead and turn on , uh , Stephane 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So that 's the virtual Stephane over there .\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor G: Do you use a PC for recording ? Or {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Uh , yeah , a Linux box . Yeah . It 's got , uh , like sixteen channels going into it .\nProfessor G: Uh - huh . Uh - huh . The quality is quite good ? Or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , so far , it 's been pretty good .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Yeah . So , uh , yeah {disfmarker} the suggestion was to have these guys start to {disfmarker}\nPhD F: OK . Why don't you go ahead , Dave ?\n",
      "Grad C: OK . Um , so , yeah , the {disfmarker} this past week I 've been main mainly occupied with , um , getting some results , u from the SRI system trained on this short Hub - five training set for the mean subtraction method . And , um , I ran some tests last night . But , um , c the results are suspicious . Um , it 's , um , {vocalsound} cuz they 're {disfmarker} the baseline results are worse than , um , Andreas {disfmarker} than results Andreas got previously . And {vocalsound} it could have something to do with , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: That 's on digits ?\nGrad C: That 's on digits . It c it {disfmarker} it could h it could have something to do with , um , downsampling .\nPhD F: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: That 's {disfmarker} that 's worth looking into . Um , d and , um , ap ap apart from that , I guess the {disfmarker} the main thing I have t ta I have to talk is , um , where I 'm planning to go over the next week . Um . So I 've been working on integrating this mean subtraction approach into the SmartKom system . And there 's this question of , well , so , um , in my tests before with HTK I found it worked {disfmarker} it worked the best with about twelve seconds of data used to estimate the mean , but , we 'll often have less {comment} in the SmartKom system . Um . So I think we 'll use as much data as we have {pause} at a particular time , and we 'll {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we 'll concatenate utterances together , um , to get as much data as we possibly can from the user . But , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} there 's a question of how to set up the models . So um , we could train the models . If we think twelve seconds is ideal we could train the models using twelve seconds to calculate the mean , to mean subtract the training data . Or we could , um , use some other amount . So {disfmarker} like I did an experiment where I , um , was using six seconds in test , um , but , for {disfmarker} I tried twelve seconds in train . And I tried , um , um , the same in train {disfmarker} I 'm a I tried six seconds in train . And six seconds in train {vocalsound} was about point three percent better . Um , and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , it 's not clear to me yet whether that 's {vocalsound} something significant . So I wanna do some tests and , um , {vocalsound} actually make some plots of , um {disfmarker} for a particular amount of data and test what happens if you vary the amount of data in train .\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Uh , Guenter , I don't know if you t {vocalsound} followed this stuff but this is , uh , {vocalsound} a uh , uh , long - term {disfmarker} long - term window F F Yeah . Yeah , he {disfmarker} you talked about it .\nProfessor G: Yeah , we {disfmarker} we spoke about it already ,\nProfessor D: Oh , OK . So you know what he 's doing .\nProfessor G: yeah .\nProfessor D: Alright .\n",
      "Grad C: y s so I was {disfmarker} I actually ran the experiments mostly and I {disfmarker} I was {disfmarker} I was hoping to have the plots with me today . I just didn't get to it . But , um {disfmarker} yeah , I wou I would be curious about people 's feedback on this cuz I 'm {disfmarker} {vocalsound} @ @ {comment} I p I think there are some I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's kind of like a {disfmarker} a bit of a tricky engineering problem . I 'm trying to figure out what 's the optimal way to set this up . So , um , {vocalsound} I 'll try to make the plots and then put some postscript up on my {disfmarker} on my web page . And I 'll mention it in my status report if people wanna take a look .\n",
      "Professor D: You could clarify something for me . You 're saying point three percent , you take a point three percent hit , {vocalsound} when the training and testing links are {disfmarker} don't match or something ?\nPhD E: Hello .\nProfessor D: Is that what it is ?\nGrad C: w Well , it c\nProfessor D: Or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: I {disfmarker} I don't think it {disfmarker} it 's {vocalsound} just for any mismatch {vocalsound} you take a hit .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: i In some cases it might be u better to have a mismatch . Like I think I saw something like {disfmarker} like if you only have two seconds in test , or , um , maybe it was something like four seconds , you actually do a little better if you , um , {vocalsound} train on six seconds than if you train on four seconds .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Right .\nGrad C: Um , but the case , uh {disfmarker} with the point three percent hit was {vocalsound} using six seconds in test , um , comparing train on twelve seconds {comment} versus train on six seconds .\n",
      "Professor D: And which was worse ?\nGrad C: The train on twelve seconds .\nProfessor D: OK . But point three percent , uh , w from what to what ? That 's point three percent {disfmarker}\nGrad C: On {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the accuracies {vocalsound} w went from {disfmarker} it was something vaguely like ninety - five point six accuracy , um , improved to ninety - five point nine wh when I {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: So four point four to four point one .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: So {disfmarker} yeah . So about a {disfmarker} about an eight percent , uh , seven or eight percent relative ?\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor D: Uh , Yeah . Well , I think in a p You know , if {disfmarker} if you were going for an evaluation system you 'd care . But if you were doing a live system that people were actually using nobody would notice . It 's {disfmarker} uh , I think the thing is to get something that 's practical , that {disfmarker} that you could really use .\n",
      "Grad C: Huh . That 's {disfmarker} that 's interesting . Alright , the e uh , I see your point . I guess I was thinking of it as , um , {vocalsound} an interesting research problem . The {disfmarker} how to g I was thinking that for the ASRU paper we could have a section saying , {vocalsound} \" For SmartKom , we {disfmarker} we d in {disfmarker} we tried this approach in , uh , {vocalsound} interactive system \" , which I don't think has been done before .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: And {disfmarker} and then there was two research questions from that .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: And one is the k does it still work if you just use the past history ?\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Alright , and the other was this question of , um what I was just talking about now . So I guess that 's why I thought it was interesting .\n",
      "Professor D: I mean , a short - time FFT {disfmarker} short - time cepstrum calculation , uh , mean {disfmarker} u mean calculation work that people have in commercial systems , they do this all the time . They {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} they calculate it from previous utterances and then use it , you know .\nGrad C: Yeah , um .\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker} but , uh , as you say , there hasn't been that much with this long {disfmarker} long - time , uh , spectra work .\nGrad C: Oh , o Oh , OK .\nProfessor D: Uh ,\n",
      "Grad C: So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's standard . Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah . Pretty common .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . Um , but , u uh , yes . No , it is interesting . And the other thing is , I mean , there 's two sides to these really small , uh , gradations in performance . Um , I mean , on the one hand in a practical system if something is , uh , four point four percent error , four point one percent error , people won't really tell {disfmarker} be able to tell the difference . On the other hand , when you 're doing , uh , research , you may , eh {disfmarker} you might find that the way that you build up a change from a ninety - five percent accurate system to a ninety - eight percent accurate system is through ten or twelve little things that you do that each are point three percent . So {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} I don't mean to say that they 're {disfmarker} they 're irrelevant . Uh , they are relevant . But , um , {vocalsound} i for a demo , you won't see it .\n",
      "Grad C: Mm - hmm . Right . OK .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: And , um , Let 's {disfmarker} l let 's see . Um , OK . And then there 's um , another thing I wanna start looking at , um , {vocalsound} wi is , um , the choice of the analysis window length . So I 've just been using two seconds just because that 's what Carlos did before . Uh , I wrote to him asking about he chose the two seconds . And it seemed like he chose it a bit informally . So , um , with the {disfmarker} with the HTK set - up I should be able to do some experiments , on just varying that length , say between one and three seconds , in a few different reverberation conditions , um , say this room and also a few of the artificial impulse responses we have for reverberation , just , um , making some plots and seeing how they look . And , um , so , with the {disfmarker} the sampling rate I was using , one second or two seconds or four seconds is at a power of two um , number of samples and , um , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll jus f for the ones in between I guess I 'll just zero - pad .\n",
      "Professor D: Mm - hmm . I guess one thing that might also be an issue , uh , cuz part of what you 're doing is you 're getting a {disfmarker} a spectrum over a bunch of different kinds of speech sounds . Um , and so it might matter how fast someone was talking for instance .\nGrad C: Oh .\n",
      "Professor D: You know , if you {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if there 's a lot of phones in one second maybe you 'll get a {disfmarker} a really good sampling of all these different things , and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and , uh , on the other hand if someone 's talking slowly maybe you 'd need more . So {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Huh .\nProfessor D: I don't know if you have some samples of faster or slower speech but it might make a difference . I don't know .\n",
      "Grad C: Uh , yeah , I don't {disfmarker} I don't think the TI - digits data that I have , um , {vocalsound} i is {disfmarker} would be appropriate for that .\nProfessor D: Yeah , probably not . Yeah .\nGrad C: But what do you {disfmarker} What about if I w I fed it through some kind of , um , speech processing algorithm that changed the speech rate ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , but then you 'll have the degradation of {disfmarker} of , uh , whatever you do uh , added onto that . But maybe . Yeah , maybe if you get something that sounds {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} does a pretty job at that .\nGrad C: Yeah . Well , uh , just if you think it 's worth looking into .\nProfessor D: You could imagine that .\nGrad C: I mean , it {disfmarker} it is getting a little away from reverberation .\n",
      "Professor D: Um , yeah . It 's just that you 're making a choice {disfmarker} uh , I was thinking more from the system aspect , if you 're making a choice for SmartKom , that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that it might be that it 's {disfmarker} it c the optimal number could be different , depending on {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah . Right .\nProfessor D: Could be . I don't know .\n",
      "Grad C: And {disfmarker} and th the third thing , um , uh , is , um , Barry explained LDA filtering to me yesterday . And so , um , Mike Shire in his thesis um , {vocalsound} did a {disfmarker} a series of experiments , um , training LDA filters in d on different conditions . And you were interested in having me repeat this for {disfmarker} for this mean subtraction approach ? Is {disfmarker} is that right ? Or for these long analysis windows , I guess , is the right way to put it .\n",
      "Professor D: I guess , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the issue I was {disfmarker} the general issue I was bringing up was that if you 're {disfmarker} have a moving {disfmarker} {vocalsound} moving window , uh , a wa a {disfmarker} a set of weights times things that , uh , move along , shift along in time , that you have in fact a linear time invariant filter . And you just happened to have picked a particular one by setting all the weights to be equal . And so the issue is what are some other filters that you could use , uh , in that sense of \" filter \" ?\n",
      "Grad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: And , um , as I was saying , I think the simplest thing to do is not to train anything , but just to do some sort of , uh , uh , hamming or Hanning , uh , kind of window , kind of thing ,\nGrad C: Right . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: just sort of to de - emphasize the jarring . So I think that would sort of be the first thing to do . But then , yeah , the LDA i uh , is interesting because it would sort of say well , suppose you actually trained this up to do the best you could by some criterion , what would the filter look like then ?\nGrad C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh , and , um , that 's sort of what we 're doing in this Aur - Aurora stuff . And , uh , it 's still not clear to me in the long run whether the best thing to do would be to do that or to have some stylized version of the filter that looks like these things you 've trained up , because you always have the problem that it 's trained up for one condition and it isn't quite right for another . So . uh {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's why {disfmarker} that 's why RASTA filter has actually ended up lasting a long time , people still using it quite a bit , because y you don't change it . So doesn't get any worse . Uh ,\n",
      "Grad C: Huh .\nProfessor D: Anyway .\nGrad C: o OK . So , um , a actually I was just thinking about what I was asking about earlier , wi which is about having {vocalsound} less than say twelve seconds in the SmartKom system to do the mean subtraction . You said in {vocalsound} systems where you use cepstral mean subtraction , they concatenate utterances and , {vocalsound} do you know how they address this issue of , um , testing versus training ? Can {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Go ahead .\n",
      "Professor G: I think what they do is they do it always on - line , I mean , that you just take what you have from the past , that you calculate the mean of this and subtract the mean .\nGrad C: OK . Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: And then you can {disfmarker} yeah , you {disfmarker} you can increase your window whi while you get {disfmarker} while you are getting more samples .\n",
      "Grad C: OK , um , and , um , so {disfmarker} so in tha in that case , wh what do they do when they 're t um , performing the cepstral mean subtraction on the training data ? So {disfmarker} because you 'd have hours and hours of training data . So do they cut it off and start over ? At intervals ? Or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor G: So do you have {disfmarker} uh , you {disfmarker} you mean you have files which are hours of hours long ? Or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad C: Oh , well , no . I guess not . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Yeah . I mean , usually you have in the training set you have similar conditions , I mean , file lengths are , I guess the same order or in the same size as for test data , or aren't they ?\nGrad C: OK . But it 's {disfmarker} OK . So if someone 's interacting with the system , though , uh , Morgan {disfmarker} uh , Morgan said that you would {vocalsound} tend to , um , {vocalsound} chain utterances together um , r\n",
      "Professor D: Well , I think what I was s I thought what I was saying was that , um , at any given point you are gonna start off with what you had from before .\nGrad C: Oh .\n",
      "Professor D: From {disfmarker} and so if you 're splitting things up into utterances {disfmarker} So , for instance , in a dialogue system , {comment} where you 're gonna be asking , uh , you know , th for some information , there 's some initial th something . And , you know , the first time out you {disfmarker} you might have some general average . But you {disfmarker} you d you don't have very much information yet . But at {disfmarker} after they 've given one utterance you 've got something . You can compute your mean cepstra from that ,\n",
      "Grad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: and then can use it for the next thing that they say , uh , so that , you know , the performance should be better that second time . Um ,  and I think the heuristics of exactly how people handle that and how they handle their training I 'm sure vary from place to place . But I think the {disfmarker} ideally , it seems to me anyway , that you {disfmarker} you would wanna do the same thing in training as you do in test . But that 's {disfmarker} that 's just , uh , a prejudice . And I think anybody working on this with some particular task would experiment .\n",
      "Grad C: Right . I g I guess the question I had was , um , amount of data e u was the amount of data that you 'd give it to , um {vocalsound} update this estimate . Because say you {disfmarker} if you have say five thousand utterances in your training set , {vocalsound} um , and you {disfmarker} you keep the mean from the last utterance , by the time it gets to the five thousandth utterance {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: No , but those are all different people with different {disfmarker} I mean , i in y So for instance , in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in a telephone task , these are different phone calls . So you don't wanna @ @ {comment} chain it together from a {disfmarker} from a different phone call .\nGrad C: OK , so {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so they would {disfmarker} g s\nProfessor D: So it 's within speaker , within phone call ,\nProfessor G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: if it 's a dialogue system , it 's within whatever this characteristic you 're trying to get rid of is expected to be consistent over ,\nProfessor G: Hmm .\nGrad C: r and it {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: right ?\nGrad C: right . OK , so you 'd {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} and so in training you would start over at {disfmarker} at every new phone call or at every {vocalsound} new speaker . Yeah ,\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . Now , {vocalsound} you know , maybe you 'd use something from the others just because at the beginning of a call you don't know anything , and so you might have some kind of general thing that 's your best guess to start with . But {disfmarker} So , s I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} you know , a lot of these things are proprietary so we 're doing a little bit of guesswork here . I mean , what do comp what do people do who really face these problems in the field ? Well , they have companies and they don't tell other people exactly what they do .\n",
      "Grad C: R right .\nProfessor D: But {disfmarker} but I mean , when you {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the hints that you get from what they {disfmarker} when they talk about it are that they do {disfmarker} they all do something like this .\nGrad C: Right , OK . I see . Bec - because I {disfmarker} so this SmartKom task first off , it 's this TV and movie information system .\nProfessor D: Yeah , but you might have somebody who 's using it\nGrad C: And {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "Professor D: and then later you might have somebody else who 's using it .\nGrad C: Yeah . Right . Right . I {disfmarker} I see .\nProfessor D: And so you 'd wanna set some {disfmarker}\nGrad C: I was {disfmarker} I was about to say . So if {disfmarker} if you ask it \" What {disfmarker} what movies are on TV tonight ? \" ,\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: if I look at my wristwatch when I say that it 's about two seconds . The way I currently have the mean subtraction , um , set up , the {disfmarker} the analysis window is two seconds .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad C: So what you just said , about what do you start with , raises a question of {vocalsound} what do I start with then ?\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: I guess it {disfmarker} because {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Well , w OK , so in that situation , though , th maybe what 's a little different there , is I think you 're talking about {disfmarker} there 's only one {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it also depends {disfmarker} we 're getting a little off track here .\nGrad C: Oh , right .\n",
      "Professor D: r But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} Uh , there 's been some discussion about whether the work we 're doing in that project is gonna be for the kiosk or for the mobile or for both . And I think for this kind of discussion it matters . If it 's in the kiosk , then the physical situation is the same . It 's gonna {disfmarker} you know , the exact interaction of the microphone 's gonna differ depending on the person and so forth . But at least the basic acoustics are gonna be the same . So f if it 's really in one kiosk , then I think that you could just chain together and {disfmarker} and you know , as much {disfmarker} as much speech as possible to {disfmarker} because what you 're really trying to get at is the {disfmarker} is the reverberation characteristic .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah .\nProfessor D: But in {disfmarker} in the case of the mobile , uh , {comment} presumably the acoustic 's changing all over the place .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor D: And in that case you probably don't wanna have it be endless because you wanna have some sort of {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a question of how long do you think it 's {disfmarker} you can get an approximation to a stationary something , given that it 's not really stationary .\nGrad C:  Right . Right .\nProfessor D: So .\nProfessor G: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: And I {disfmarker} I g I guess I s just started thinking of another question , which is , {vocalsound} for {disfmarker} for the very first frame , w what {disfmarker} what do I do if I 'm {disfmarker} if I take {disfmarker} if I use that frame to calculate the mean , then I 'm just gonna get n nothing .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Um ,\nProfessor D: Right .\nGrad C: so I should probably have some kind of default {vocalsound} mean for the first f couple of frames ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Or subtract nothing . I mean , it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Or subtract nothing . And {disfmarker} and that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} I guess that 's something that 's p people have figured out how to deal with in cepstral mean subtraction as well ?\n",
      "Professor D: Yeah , yeah . Yeah , people do something . They {disfmarker} they , uh , they have some , um , uh , in {disfmarker} in cepstral mean subtraction , for short - term window {disfmarker} analysis windows , as is usually done , you 're trying to get rid of some very general characteristic . And so , uh , if you have any other information about what a general kind of characteristic would be , then you {disfmarker} you can do it there .\n",
      "PhD F: You can also {disfmarker} you can also reflect the data . So you take , uh {disfmarker} you know , I 'm not sure how many frames you need .\nGrad C: Uh - huh .\nPhD F: But you take that many from the front and flip it around to {disfmarker} a as the negative value .\nProfessor D: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD F: So you can always {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: The other thing is that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I remember B B N doing this , is that if you have a multi - pass system , um , if the first pass ta it takes most of the computation , the second and the third pass could be very , very quick ,\nGrad C: Mmm .\nProfessor D: just looking at a relatively small n small , uh , space of hypotheses .\nGrad C: Uh - huh .\nProfessor D: Then you can do your first pass {vocalsound} without any subtraction at all .\nGrad C: Oh .\n",
      "Professor D: And then your second pass , uh , uh , eliminates those {disfmarker} most of those hypotheses by , uh {disfmarker} by having an improved {disfmarker} improved version o of the analysis .\nGrad C: OK . OK .\nProfessor D: So .\nGrad C: OK . So that was all I had , for now .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD F: Do you wanna go , Barry ?\n",
      "Grad A: Yeah , OK . Um , so for the past , {vocalsound} uh , week an or two , I 've been just writing my , uh , formal thesis proposal . Um , so I 'm taking {vocalsound} this qualifier exam that 's coming up in two weeks . And I {disfmarker} I finish writing a proposal and submit it to the committee . Um . And uh , should I {disfmarker} should I explain , uh , more about what {disfmarker} what I 'm proposing to do , and s and stuff ?\nProfessor D: Yes , briefly .\nPhD F: Yeah briefly .\n",
      "Grad A: OK . Um , so briefly , {vocalsound} I 'm proposing to do a n a new p approach to speech recognition using um , a combination of , uh , multi - band ideas and ideas , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {comment} about the uh , acoustic phonec phonetic approach to speech recognition . Um , so I will be using {vocalsound} these graphical models that {disfmarker} um , that implement the multi - band approach {vocalsound} to recognize a set of intermediate categories that might involve , uh , things like phonetic features {vocalsound} or other {disfmarker} other f feature things that are more closely related to the acoustic signal itself . Um , and the hope in all of this is that by going multi - band and by going into these , {vocalsound} um intermediate classifications , {vocalsound} that we can get a system that 's more robust to {disfmarker} to unseen noises , and situations like that . Um , and so , some of the research issues involved in this are , {vocalsound} um , {vocalsound} {comment} one , what kind of intermediate categories do we need to classify ? Um , another one is {vocalsound} um , what {disfmarker} what other types of structures in these multi - band graphical models should we consider in order to um , combine evidence from {vocalsound} the sub - bands ? And , uh , the third one is how do we {disfmarker} how do we merge all the , uh , information from the individual uh , multi - band classifiers to come up with word {disfmarker} word recognition or {disfmarker} or phone recognition things . Um , so basically that 's {disfmarker} that 's what I 've been doing . And ,\n",
      "PhD F: So you 've got two weeks , huh ?\nGrad A: I got two weeks to brush up on d um , presentation stuff and , um ,\nProfessor D: Oh , I thought you were finishing your thesis in two weeks .\nGrad A: But . Oh , that too .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nPhD F: Are you gonna do any dry runs for your thing ,\nGrad A: Yes .\nPhD F: or are you just gonna {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad A: Yes . I , um {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm gonna do some . Would you be interested ? To help out ?\nPhD F: Sure .\nGrad A: OK .\nPhD F: Sure .\nGrad A: Thanks . Yeah .\nPhD F: Is that it ?\nGrad A: That 's it .\nPhD F: Hhh . OK . Uh . Hhh . Let 's see . So we 've got forty minutes left , and it seems like there 's a lot of material . An - any suggestions about where we {disfmarker} where we should go next ?\n",
      "PhD B: Mmm , @ @ .\nPhD F: Uh . Do you wanna go , Sunil ? Maybe we 'll just start with you .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . But I actually stuck most of this in our m last meeting with Guenter . Um , but I 'll just {disfmarker} Um , so the last week , uh , I showed some results with only SpeechDat - Car which was like some fifty - six percent . And , uh , I didn't h I mean , I {disfmarker} I found that the results {disfmarker} I mean , I wasn't getting that r results on the TI - digit . So I was like looking into \" why , what is wrong with the TI - digits ? \" . Why {disfmarker} why I was not getting it . And I found that , the noise estimation is a reason for the TI - digits to perform worse than the baseline . So , uh , I actually , picked th I mean , the first thing I did was I just scaled the noise estimate by a factor which is less than one to see if that {disfmarker} because I found there are a lot of zeros in the spectrogram for the TI - digits when I used this approach . So the first thing I did was I just scaled the noise estimate . And I found {disfmarker} So the {disfmarker} the results that I 've shown here are the complete results using the new {disfmarker} Well , the n the new technique is nothing but the noise estimate scaled by a factor of point five . So it 's just an ad - hoc {disfmarker} I mean , some intermediate result , because it 's not optimized for anything . So the results {disfmarker} The trend {disfmarker} the only trend I could see from those results was like the {disfmarker} the p the current noise estimation or the , uh , noise composition scheme is working good for like the car noise type of thing . Because I 've {disfmarker} the only {disfmarker} only {disfmarker} p very good result in the TI - digits is the noise {disfmarker} car noise condition for their test - A , which is like the best I could see that uh , for any non - stationary noise like \" Babble \" or \" Subway \" or any {disfmarker} \" Street \" , some \" Restaurant \" noise , it 's like {disfmarker} it 's not performing w very well . So , the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So that {disfmarker} that 's the first thing I c uh , I could make out from this stuff . And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah , I think what is important to see is that there is a big difference between the training modes .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Uh - huh . If you have clean training , you get also a fifty percent improvement .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor G: But if you have muddy condition training you get only twenty percent .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Uh , and in that twenty percent @ @ it 's very inconsistent across different noise conditions .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm . Mmm .\n",
      "PhD B: So I have like a forty - five {vocalsound} percent for \" Car noise \" and then there 's a minus five percent for the \" Babble \" ,\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nPhD B: and there 's this thirty - three for the \" Station \" . And so {vocalsound} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not {disfmarker} it 's not actually very consistent across . So . The only correlation between the SpeechDat - Car and this performance is the c stationarity of the noise that is there in these conditions and the SpeechDat - Car .\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And , uh {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so the overall result is like in the last page , which is like forty - seven , which is still very imbalanced because there are like fifty - six percent on the SpeechDat - Car and thirty - five percent on the TI - digits . And {disfmarker} uh , ps the fifty - six percent is like comparable to what the French Telecom gets , but the thirty - five percent is way off .\nProfessor D: I 'm sort of confused but {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} I 'm looking on the second page ,\n",
      "PhD B: Oh , yep .\nProfessor D: and it says \" fifty percent \" {disfmarker} looking in the lower right - hand corner , \" fifty percent relative performance \" .\nProfessor G: For the clean training .\nProfessor D: Is that {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: u And if you {disfmarker} if you look {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: is that fifty percent improvement ?\nPhD B: Yeah . For {disfmarker} that 's for the clean training and the noisy testing for the TI - digits .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So it 's improvement over the baseline mel cepstrum ?\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: But the baseline mel cepstrum under those training doesn't do as well I {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm trying to understand why it 's {disfmarker} it 's eighty percent {disfmarker} That 's an accuracy number , I guess ,\nPhD B: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor D: right ? So that 's not as good as the one up above .\nPhD B: No .\nProfessor D: But the fifty is better than the one up above ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: so I 'm confused .\n",
      "PhD B: Uh , actually the noise compensation whatever , uh , we are put in it works very well for the high mismatch condition . I mean , it 's consistent in the SpeechDat - Car and in the clean training also it gives it {disfmarker} But this fifty percent is {disfmarker} is that the {disfmarker} the high mismatch performance {disfmarker} equivalent to the high mismatch performance in the speech .\nPhD F: So n s So since the high mismatch performance is much worse to begin with , it 's easier to get a better relative improvement .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . Yeah . I do . Yeah , yeah . So by putting this noise {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah , if we look at the figures on the right , we see that the reference system is very bad .\nProfessor D: Oh .\nPhD B: Yeah . The reference drops like a very fast {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh .\nPhD E: Like for clean {disfmarker} clean training condition .\nProfessor D: I see .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: I see .\nPhD E: Nnn .\n",
      "Professor D: This is {disfmarker} this is TI digits {comment} we 're looking at ?\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Oh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: This whole page is TI - digits\nPhD B: Oh . Yeah .\nProfessor D: or this is {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: It 's not written anywhere . Yeah , it 's TI - digits . The first r spreadsheet is TI - digits .\nProfessor D: Mmm . How does clean training do for the , uh , \" Car \"\nProfessor G: Hmm .\nPhD B: The \" Car \" ?\nProfessor D: stuff ?\n",
      "PhD B: Oh . Still {disfmarker} it still , uh {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that 's still consistent . I mean , I get the best performance in the case of \" Car \" , which is the third column in the A condition .\nProfessor D: No . I mean , this is added noise . I mean , this is TI - digits . I 'm sorry . I meant {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the , uh , multi - language , uh , uh , Finnish and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: This is next {disfmarker} next page .\nPhD B: That 's the next {disfmarker} next spreadsheet , is {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Hmm .\nPhD B: So that is the performance for Italian , Finnish and Spanish .\nProfessor D: \" Training condition \" {disfmarker} Oh , right . So \" clean \" corresponds to \" high mismatch \" .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: And \" increase \" , That 's increase e\nProfessor G: Improvement .\nPhD B: Improvement . That 's {disfmarker} \" Percentage increase \" is the percentage improvement over the baseline .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's a {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So that 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Which means decrease in word error rate ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK , so \" percentage increase \" means decrease ?\nPhD B: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\nProfessor G: Yeah . The {disfmarker} the w there was a very long discussion about this on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} on the , uh , Amsterdam meeting .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: How to {disfmarker} how to calculate it then .\nPhD B: Yeah . There 's {disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess you are using finally this {disfmarker} the scheme which they {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Which is there in the spreadsheet .\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD B: I 'm not changing anything in there .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nProfessor D: Alright .\n",
      "PhD B: So . Uh , yeah . So all the hi H M numbers are w very good , in the sense , they are better than what the French Telecom gets . So . But the {disfmarker} the only number that 's still {disfmarker} I mean , which Stephane also got in his result was that medium mismatch of the Finnish , which is very {disfmarker} {vocalsound} which is a very strange situation where we used the {disfmarker} we changed the proto for initializing the HMM {disfmarker} I mean , this {disfmarker} this is basically because it gets stuck in some local minimum in the training . That seventy - five point seven nine in the Finnish mismatch which is that {disfmarker} the eleven point nine six what we see .\n",
      "Professor D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So we have to jiggle it somehow ?\nPhD B: Yeah {disfmarker} so we start with that different proto and it becomes eighty - eight , which is like some fifty percent improvement .\nProfessor D: S Wait a minute . Start with a different what ?\nPhD B: Different prototype , which is like a different initialization for the , uh , s transition probabilities . It 's just that right now , the initialization is to stay more in the current state , which is point four point six , right ? Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: And if it changes to point five point five , which is equal @ @ for transition and self loop where it becomes eighty - eight percent .\nPhD F: Well , but that involves mucking with the back - end ,\nPhD B: Yeah . We can't do it .\nPhD F: which is not allowed .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD B: So .\nProfessor G: I mean , it uh , like , i i i It is well known , this {disfmarker} this medium match condition of the Finnish data has some strange effects .\nPhD B: Very s\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: It has a very few at {disfmarker} uh , actually , c uh , tran I mean , words also .\nProfessor G: I mean , that is {disfmarker} Yeah ,\nPhD B: It 's a very , very small set , actually .\nProfessor G: that too . Yeah . Uh - huh .\nPhD B: So there is {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: There is a l a {disfmarker} There is a lot of {disfmarker} Uh , there are a lot of utterances with music in {disfmarker} with music in the background .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . Yeah , yeah , yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD B: Yeah . It has some music also . I mean , very horrible music like like I know .\nProfessor D: So maybe for that one you need a much smarter VAD ? Mmm ,\nPhD B: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: if it 's music .\n",
      "PhD B: So , that {disfmarker} that 's the {disfmarker} that 's about the results . And , uh , the summary is like {disfmarker} OK . So there are {disfmarker} the other thing what I tried was , which I explained in the last meeting , is using the channel zero for , uh , for both dropping and estimating the noise . And that 's like just to f n get a feel of how good it is . I guess the fifty - six percent improvement in the SpeechDat - Car becomes like sixty - seven percent . Like ten percent better . But that 's {disfmarker} that 's not a {disfmarker} that 's a cheating experiment . So . That 's just {disfmarker} So , m w\n",
      "Professor G: But the {disfmarker} but the , uh , forty - seven point nine percent which you have now , that 's already a remarkable improvement in comparison to the first proposal .\nPhD B: Yeah . So we had forty - four percent in the first proposal .\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: We have f a big im So {vocalsound} the major improvement that we got was in all the high mismatch cases , because all those numbers were in sixties and seventies because we never had any noise compensations .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD B: So that 's where the biggest improvement came up . Not much in the well match and the medium match and TI - digits also right now . So this is still at three or four percent improvement over the first proposal .\nProfessor G: Mmm . Mmm .\nProfessor D: Yeah , so that 's good .\nPhD B: Yeah . So .\nProfessor D: Then if we can improve the noise estimation , then it should get better .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I started thinking about also {disfmarker} I mean yeah , uh , {vocalsound} I discovered the same problem when I started working on {disfmarker} uh , on this Aurora task {vocalsound} almost two years ago , that you have the problem with this mulit a at the beginning we had only this multi condition training of the TI - digits .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And , uh , I {disfmarker} I found the same problem . Just taking um , what we were used to u {vocalsound} use , I mean , uh , some type of spectral subtraction , {comment} y {vocalsound} you get even worse results than {vocalsound} the basis\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah ,\nProfessor G: and uh {disfmarker}\nPhD B: yeah .\nProfessor G: I {disfmarker} I tried to find an explanation for it ,\nProfessor D: Mmm .\nProfessor G: so {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: So . Yes . Stephane also has the same experience of using the spectral subtraction right ?\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah . So here {disfmarker} here I mean , I found that it 's {disfmarker} if I changed the noise estimate I could get an improvement .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: So that 's {disfmarker} so it 's something which I can actually pursue , is the noise estimate .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah , I think what you do is in {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when you have the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} this multi - condition training mode , um then you have {disfmarker} then you can train models for the speech , for the words , as well as for the pauses where you really have all information about the noise available .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And it was surprising {disfmarker} At the beginning it was not surprising to me that you get really the best results on doing it this way , I mean , in comparison to any type of training on clean data and any type of processing . But it was {disfmarker} So , u u it {disfmarker} it seems to be the best what {disfmarker} wh wh what {disfmarker} what we can do in this moment is multi - condition training . And every when we now start introducing some {disfmarker} some noise reduction technique we {disfmarker} we introduce also somehow artificial distortions .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor G: And these artificial distortions {disfmarker} uh , I have the feeling that they are the reason why {disfmarker} why we have the problems in this multi - condition training . That means the H M Ms we trained , they are {disfmarker} they are based on Gaussians ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: and on modeling Gaussians . And if you {disfmarker} Can I move a little bit with this ? Yeah . And if we introduce now this {disfmarker} this u spectral subtraction , or Wiener filtering stuff {disfmarker} So , usually what you have is maybe , um {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm showing now an envelope um maybe you 'll {disfmarker} f for this time . So usually you have {disfmarker} maybe in clean condition you have something which looks like this . And if it is noisy it is somewhere here . And then you try to subtract it or Wiener filter or whatever . And what you get is you have always these problems , that you have this {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these {disfmarker} these zeros in there .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: And you have to do something if you get these negative values . I mean , this is your noise estimate and you somehow subtract it or do whatever . Uh , and then you have {disfmarker} And then I think what you do is you introduce some {disfmarker} some artificial distribution in this uh in {disfmarker} in the models . I mean , i you {disfmarker} you train it also this way but , i somehow there is {disfmarker} u u there is no longer a {disfmarker} a Gaussian distribution . It is somehow a strange distribution which we introduce with these {vocalsound} artificial distortions . And {disfmarker} and I was thinking that {disfmarker} that might be the reason why you get these problems in the {disfmarker} especially in the multi - condition training mode .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Th - That 's true . Yeah {disfmarker} the c the models are not complex enough to absorb that additional variability that you 're introducing .\nProfessor G: s\nPhD F: Thanks Adam .\nProfessor G: Yeah . Yes .\nPhD B: Well , that 's {disfmarker} Yeah . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: I also have the feeling that um , the reason ye why it doesn't work is {disfmarker} yeah , that the models are much {disfmarker} are t um , not complex enough . Because I {disfmarker} actually I als always had a good experience with spectral subtraction , just a straight spectral subtraction algorithm when I was using neural networks , big neural networks , which maybe are more able to model strange distributions and {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Then I tried the same {disfmarker} exactly the same spectral subtraction algorithm on these Aurora tasks and it simply doesn't work . It 's even {disfmarker} it , uh , hurts even .\nProfessor G: Hmm .\nPhD E: So .\nProfessor D: We probably should at some point here try the tandem {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the system - two kind of stuff with this , with the spectral subtraction for that reason .\nProfessor G: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: Cuz {vocalsound} again , it should do a transformation to a domain where it maybe {disfmarker} looks more Gaussian .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: Hmm . Yeah , y I {disfmarker} I was {disfmarker} whe w w just yesterday when I was thinking about it {vocalsound} um w what {disfmarker} what we could try to do , or do about it {disfmarker} I mean , if you {disfmarker} if you get at this {disfmarker} in this situation that you get this {disfmarker} this negative values and you simply set it to zero or to a constant or whatever {vocalsound} if we {disfmarker} if we would use there a somehow , um {disfmarker} a random generator which {disfmarker} which has a certain distribution , u not a certain {disfmarker} {comment} yeah , a special distribution we should see {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we have to think about it .\n",
      "PhD B:  It 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: And that we , so , introduce again some natural behavior in this trajectory .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm . Very different from speech . Still , I mean , it shouldn't confuse the {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Yeah , I mean , similar to what {disfmarker} what you see really u in {disfmarker} in the real um noisy situation .\nPhD B: OK . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: Or i in the clean situation . But {disfmarker} but somehow a {disfmarker} a natural distribution .\nProfessor D: But isn't that s again sort of the idea of the additive thing , if it {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} as we had in the J stuff ? I mean , basically if {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if you have random data , um , in {disfmarker} in the time domain , then when you look at the s spectrum it 's gonna be pretty flat . And {disfmarker} and ,\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: uh , so just add something everywhere rather than just in those places . It 's just a constant , right ?\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Yeah . I think {disfmarker} e yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's just especially in these segments , I mean , you introduce , um , very artificial behavior .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: And {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Well , see if you add something everywhere , it has almost no effect up {disfmarker} up {disfmarker} up on {disfmarker} on top . And it {disfmarker} and it {disfmarker} and it has significant effect down there .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: That was , sort of the idea .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Hmm . Yeah the {disfmarker} that 's true . That {disfmarker} those {disfmarker} those regions are the cause for this @ @ {disfmarker} those negative values or whatever you get .\nProfessor G: I Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah . So .\nProfessor G: I mean , we {disfmarker} we could trit uh , we {disfmarker} we could think how w what {disfmarker} what we could try .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: I mean , {vocalsound} it {disfmarker} it was just an idea .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: I mean , we {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: I think when it 's noisy people should just speak up .\nProfessor G: to {disfmarker} Mmm .\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD E: If we look at the France Telecom proposal , they use some kind of noise addition . They have a random number generator , right ? And they add noise on the trajectory of , uh , the log energy only , right ?\nProfessor D: Oh , they do !\n",
      "PhD B: Yep .\nProfessor D: Oh .\nPhD B: C - z C - zero and log energy also , yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . Um , But I don't know how much effect it {disfmarker} this have , but they do that .\nPhD B: Now ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Oh .\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nProfessor G: So it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it is l somehow similar to what {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: I think because they have th log energy , yeah , and then just generate random number . They have some kind of mean and variance , and they add this number to {disfmarker} to the log energy simply . Um {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the log energy , the {disfmarker} after the clean {disfmarker} cleaning up .\nProfessor D: To the l\nPhD B: So they add a random {disfmarker} random noise to it .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor D: To the {disfmarker} just the energy , or to the mel {disfmarker} uh , to the mel filter ?\nPhD B: No . On - only to the log energy .\nPhD E: Only {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oh .\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nProfessor D: So it {disfmarker} Cuz I mean , I think this is most interesting for the mel filters . Right ?\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nProfessor D: Or {disfmarker} or F F one or the other .\n",
      "Professor G: But {disfmarker} but they do not apply filtering of the log energy or what {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Like , uh {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: like {disfmarker} like a spectral subtraction or {disfmarker}\nPhD B: No {disfmarker} their filter is not M domain . S so they did filter their time signal\nProfessor G: Yeah . I kn\nPhD B: and then what @ @ {disfmarker} u\nProfessor G: And then they calculate from this , the log energy\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah {disfmarker} then after that it is s almost the same as the baseline prop system .\nProfessor G: or {disfmarker} ? Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: And then the final log energy that they {disfmarker} that they get , that {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} to that they add some random noise .\nProfessor D: Yeah , but again , that 's just log energy as opposed to {vocalsound} filter bank energy .\nPhD B: Yeah . So it 's not the mel .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD B: You know , it 's not the mel filter bank output .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD B: These are log energy computed from the time s domain signal ,\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: not from the mel filter banks . So {disfmarker} did {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nPhD E: Maybe it 's just a way to decrease the importance of this particular parameter in the {disfmarker} in the world feature vector cu if you add noise to one of the parameters , you widen the distributions\nProfessor D: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Becomes flat . The variance , yeah , reduces ,\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: so . Hmm , yeah .\nPhD E: Eee - sss - uh .\nProfessor D: So it could reduce the dependence on the amplitude and so on . Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah . Although {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Maybe .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: So is , uh {disfmarker} Is that about it ?\nPhD B: Uh , so the {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD B: OK . So the other thing is the {disfmarker} I 'm just looking at a little bit on the delay issue where the delay of the system is like a hundred and eighty millisecond . So {vocalsound} I just {disfmarker} just tried another sk system {disfmarker} I mean , another filter which I 've like shown at the end . Which is very similar to the existing uh , filter . Only {disfmarker} Uh , only thing is that the phase is {disfmarker} is like a totally nonlinear phase because it 's a {disfmarker} it 's not a symmetric filter anymore .\n",
      "PhD F: This is for the LDA ?\nPhD B: Yeah {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so this {disfmarker} this is like {disfmarker} So this makes the delay like zero for LDA because it 's completely causal .\nPhD F: Oh .\nPhD B: So {disfmarker} So I got actually just the results for the Italian for that and that 's like {disfmarker} So the fifty - one point O nine has become forty - eight point O six , which is like three percent relative degradation . So I have like the fifty - one point O nine\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and {disfmarker} So . I don't know it f fares for the other conditions . So it 's just like {disfmarker} it 's like a three percent relative degradation , with the {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: But {disfmarker} but is there {disfmarker} is there a problem with the one hundred eighty milliseconds ? Or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: u Uh , may\nProfessor D: Th - Well , this is {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah , I mean , I talked to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} uh , I ta Uh , I talked , uh , about it with {disfmarker} with Hynek . I mean , there is {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: This is {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So , basically our {disfmarker} our position is {vocalsound} that , um , we shouldn't be unduly constraining the latency at this point because we 're all still experimenting with trying to make the performance better in the presence of noise . Uh , there is a minority in that group who is a arguing {disfmarker} who are arguing for {vocalsound} um , uh , having a further constraining of the latency . So we 're s just continuing to keep aware of what the trade - offs are and , you know , what {disfmarker} what do we gain from having longer or shorter latencies ?\n",
      "Professor G: Mmm .\nProfessor D: But since we always seem to at least get something out of longer latencies not being so constrained , we 're tending to go with that if we 're not told we can't do it .\nPhD F: What {disfmarker} where was the , um {disfmarker} the smallest latency of all the systems last time ?\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: The French Telecom .\nProfessor D: Well , France Telecom was {disfmarker} was {disfmarker} was very short latency\nProfessor G: It 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: and they had a very good result .\nPhD F: What {disfmarker} what was it ?\nProfessor D: It was thirty - five .\nProfessor G: It was in the order of thirty milliseconds\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: or {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Thirteen ?\nProfessor D: th th\nProfessor G: Thirty .\nPhD F: Thirty .\nPhD B: Thirty - four .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , so it 's possible to get very short latency .\nProfessor G: \n",
      "Professor D: But , again , we 're {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the approaches that we 're using are ones that {vocalsound} take advantage of {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah . I was just curious about where we are compared to , you know , the shortest that people have done .\nProfessor G: But {disfmarker} but I think this thirty milliseconds {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they did {disfmarker} it did not include the {disfmarker} the delta calculation .\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: And this is included now ,\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor G: you know ?\nPhD B: So if they include the delta , it will be an additional forty millisecond .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I don't remember the {disfmarker} i th They were not using the HTK delta ?\nPhD B: No , they 're using a nine - point window , which is like a four on either side ,\nProfessor G: Nine - point .\nPhD B: which is like {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD B: f so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Mmm .\nPhD B: they didn't include that .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Where does the comprish compression in decoding delay comes from ?\nPhD F: OK .\nPhD E: \nPhD B: That 's the way the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the frames are packed , like you have to wait for one more frame to pack . Because it 's {disfmarker} the CRC is computed for two frames always .\n",
      "Professor D: Well , that {disfmarker} the they would need that forty milliseconds also .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: No . They actually changed the compression scheme altogether .\nProfessor D: Right ?\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: So they have their own compression and decoding scheme and they {disfmarker} I don't know what they have .\nProfessor D: Oh .\nPhD B: But they have coded zero delay for that . Because they ch I know they changed it , their compression . They have their own CRC , their {disfmarker} their own {vocalsound} error correction mechanism .\n",
      "Professor D: Oh .\nPhD B: So they don't have to wait more than one more frame to know whether the current frame is in error .\nProfessor D: Oh , OK .\nPhD B: So they changed the whole thing so that there 's no delay for that compression and {disfmarker} part also .\nProfessor D: Hmm .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Even you have reported actually zero delay for the {pause} compression . I thought maybe you also have some different {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mmm . Mmm . No , I think I {disfmarker} I used this scheme as it was before .\n",
      "PhD B: OK . Ah . Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: OK , we 've got twenty minutes so we should {vocalsound} probably try to move along . Uh , did you wanna go next , Stephane ?\nPhD E: I can go next . Yeah . Mmm .\nProfessor D: Oh . Wait a minute . It 's {disfmarker}\nPhD E: It 's {disfmarker} Yeah , we have to take {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Wait a minute . I think {vocalsound} I 'm confused .\nPhD E: Well {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "Professor D: Alright .\nPhD E: So you have w w one sheet ? This one is {disfmarker} you don't need it , alright .\nProfessor D: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD E: So you have to take the whole {disfmarker} the five . There should be five sheets .\nProfessor D: OK ,\nPhD E: \nProfessor D: I have four now because I left one with Dave because I thought I was dropping one off and passing the others on . So , no , we 're not . OK .\nPhD B: Thanks .\nPhD H: Please give me one .\n",
      "Professor D: Ah , we need one more over here .\nPhD E: OK , maybe there 's not enough for everybody .\nPhD F: I can share with Barry .\nGrad A: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oh , OK .\nPhD E: But {disfmarker} Can we look at this ?\nProfessor G: OK .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: So , yeah , there are two figures showing actually the , mmm , um , performance of the current VAD . So it 's a n neural network based on PLP parameters , uh , which estimate silence probabilities , and then I just put a median filtering on this to smooth the probabilities , right ? Um {disfmarker} I didn't use the {disfmarker} the scheme that 's currently in the proposal because {vocalsound} I don't want to {disfmarker} In the proposal {disfmarker} Well , in {disfmarker} in the system we want to add like speech frame before every word and a little bit of {disfmarker} of , uh , s a couple of frames after also . Uh , but to estimate the performance of the VAD , we don't want to do that , because it would artificially increase the um {disfmarker} the false alarm rate of speech detection . Right ? Um , so , there is u normally a figure for the Finnish and one for Italian . And maybe someone has two for the Italian because I 'm missing one figure here .\n",
      "PhD B: No .\nPhD E: Well {disfmarker} Well , whatever . Uh {disfmarker} Yeah , so one surprising thing that we can notice first is that apparently the speech miss rate is uh , higher than the false alarm rate . So . It means {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker} so what is the lower curve and the upper curve ?\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah , there are two curves . One curve 's for the close - talking microphone , which is the lower curve .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD E: And the other one is for the distant microphone\n",
      "Professor G: Ah , OK .\n",
      "PhD E: which has more noise so , it 's logical that {vocalsound} it performs worse . So as I was saying , the miss rate is quite important uh , which means that we tend to label speech as {disfmarker} as a silence . And , uh , I didn't analyze further yet , but {vocalsound} I think it 's {disfmarker} it may be due to the fricative sounds which may be {disfmarker} in noisy condition maybe label {disfmarker} labelled as silence . And it may also be due to the alignment because {disfmarker} well , the reference alignment . Because right now I just use an alignment obtained from {disfmarker} from a system trained on channel zero . And I checked it a little bit but there might be alignment errors . Um , yeah , e like the fact that {vocalsound} {vocalsound} the {disfmarker} the models tend to align their first state on silence and their last state o on silence also . So the reference {disfmarker} reference alignment would label as speech some silence frame before speech and after speech . This is something that we already noticed before when {disfmarker} mmm , So this cus this could also explain , uh , the high miss rate maybe . Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: And {disfmarker} and this {disfmarker} this curves are the average over the whole database , so .\nPhD E: Yeah . Right .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nPhD E: Um {disfmarker} Yeah , and the different points of the curves are for five uh , thresholds on the probability {comment} uh from point three to point seven .\nPhD B: So that threshold {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nPhD B: OK . S OK {disfmarker} so d the detection threshold is very {disfmarker}\nPhD E: So the v\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD E: The VAD ? Yeah . There first , a threshold on the probability {comment} @ @ {comment} That puts all the values to zero or one .\nPhD B: Mmm .\nPhD E: And then the median filtering .\nPhD B: Yeah , so the median filtering is fixed . You just change the threshold ?\nPhD E: Yeah . It 's fixed ,\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: yeah . Mm - hmm . So , going from channel zero to channel one , uh , almost double the error rate . Um , Yeah . Well , so it 's a reference performance that we can {disfmarker} you know , if we want to {disfmarker} to work on the VAD , {comment} we can work on this basis\nPhD H: \nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: OK .\nGrad A: Is this {disfmarker} is this VAD a MLP ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad A: OK . How {disfmarker} how big is it ?\nPhD E: It 's a very big one . I don't remember .\nPhD B: So three {disfmarker} three hundred and fifty inputs ,\nPhD E: m\nPhD B: uh , six thousand hidden nodes and two outputs . t t\nGrad A: OK .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Middle - sized one .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: \n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . Uh , ppp . I don't know , you have questions about that , or suggestions ?\nPhD B: Mmm . S so {disfmarker}\nPhD E: It seems {disfmarker} the performance seems worse in Finnish , which {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Well , it 's not trained on Finnish .\nPhD E: uh {disfmarker}\nPhD H: It 's worse .\nPhD E: It 's not trained on Finnish , yeah .\nProfessor D: What 's it trained on ?\nPhD B: I mean , the MLP 's not trained on Finnish .\n",
      "Professor D: Right , what 's it trained on ?\nPhD B: Oh {disfmarker} oh . Sorry . Uh , it 's Italian TI - digits .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Oh , it 's trained on Italian ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , OK .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: That 's right .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD E: And also there are like funny noises on Finnish more than on Italian . I mean , like music\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Yeah . Yeah , the {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's true .\nPhD E: and {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} So , yeah , we were looking at this . But for most of the noises , noises are {disfmarker} um , I don't know if we want to talk about that . But , well , the {disfmarker} the \" Car \" noises are below like five hundred hertz . And we were looking at the \" Music \" utterances and in this case the noise is more about two thousand hertz .\nPhD B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Well , the music energy 's very low apparently . Uh , uh , from zero to two {disfmarker} two thousand hertz . So maybe just looking at this frequency range for {disfmarker} from five hundred to two thousand would improve somewhat the VAD\nPhD B: Mmm .\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mmm {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So there are like some {disfmarker} some s some parameters you wanted to use or something ?\nPhD E: Yeah , but {disfmarker} Yes .\n",
      "PhD B: Or {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Uh , the next , um {disfmarker} Oh , it 's there .\nProfessor G: So is the {disfmarker} is the {disfmarker} is the training {disfmarker} is the training based on these labels files which you take as reference here ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Wh - when you train the neural net y y you {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: No . It 's not . It 's {disfmarker} it was trained on some alignment obtained um , uh {disfmarker} For the Italian data , I think we trained the neural network on {disfmarker} with embedded training . So re - estimation of the alignment using the neural network , I guess . That 's right ?\nPhD B: Yeah . We actually trained , uh , the {disfmarker} on the Italian training part .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: We {disfmarker} we had another {vocalsound} system with u\n",
      "PhD E: So it was a f f a phonetic classification system for the Italian Aurora data .\nPhD B: Yeah . It must be somewhere . Yeah .\nPhD E: For the Aurora data that it was trained on , it was different . Like , for TI - digits you used a {disfmarker} a previous system that you had , I guess .\nPhD B: What {disfmarker}  No it {disfmarker} Yeah , yeah . That 's true .\nPhD E: So the alignments from the different database that are used for training came from different system .\nPhD B: Syste Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Then we put them tog together . Well , you put them together and trained the VAD on them .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Hmm .\nPhD E: Uh , But did you use channel {disfmarker} did you align channel one also ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I just took their entire Italian training part .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: So it was both channel zero plus channel one .\nPhD E: So di Yeah . So the alignments might be wrong then on channel one , right ?\n",
      "PhD B: On one . Possible .\nPhD E: So we might ,\nPhD B: We can do a realignment .\nPhD E: yeah ,\nPhD B: That 's true .\nPhD E: at least want to retrain on these alignments , which should be better because they come from close - talking microphone .\nProfessor G: Yeah , the {disfmarker} that was my idea . I mean , if {disfmarker} if it ha if it is not the same labeling which is taking the spaces .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: OK .\nPhD B: Yeah , possible .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor G: Mmm .\nPhD B: I mean , it {disfmarker} so the system {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: so the VAD was trained on maybe different set of labels for channel zero and channel one\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: was the alignments were w were different for {disfmarker} s certainly different because they were independently trained .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: We didn't copy the channel zero alignments to channel one .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: But for the new alignments what you generated , you just copied the channel zero to channel one , right ? Yeah .\nPhD E: Right . Yeah . Um . And eh , hhh actually when we look at {disfmarker} at the VAD , {vocalsound} for some utterances it 's almost perfect , I mean , it just dropped one frame , the first frame of speech or {disfmarker} So there are some utterances where it 's almost one hundred percent VAD performance .\n",
      "Professor G: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Uh , but {disfmarker} Yeah . Mmm {disfmarker} Yep . So the next thing is um , I have the spreadsheet for three different system . But for this you only have to look right now on the SpeechDat - Car performance uh , because I didn't test {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} I didn't test the spectral subtraction on TI - digits yet . Uh , so you have three she sheets . One is the um proposal - one system . Actually , it 's not exe exactly proposal - one . It 's the system that Sunil just described . Um , but with uh , Wiener filtering from um , France Telecom included . Um , so this gives like fifty - seven point seven percent , uh , s uh , error rate reduction on the SpeechDat - Car data . Mmm , and then I have two sheets where it 's for a system where {disfmarker} uh , so it 's again the same system . But in this case we have spectral subtraction with a maximum overestimation factor of two point five . Uh , there is smoothing of the gain trajectory with some kind of uh , low - pass filter , which has forty milliseconds latency . And then , after subtraction um , I add a constant to the energies and I have two cases d where {disfmarker} The first case is where the constant is twenty - five DB below the mean speech energy and the other is thirty DB below . Um , and for these s two system we have like fifty - five point , uh , five - percent improvement , and fifty - eight point one . So again , it 's around fifty - six , fifty - seven . Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: Cuz I notice the TI - digits number is exactly the same for these last two ?\nPhD E: Yeah , because I didn't {disfmarker} For the France Telecom uh , spectral subtraction included in the {disfmarker} our system , the TI - digits number are the right one , but not for the other system because I didn't test it yet {disfmarker} this system , including {disfmarker} with spectral subtraction on the TI - digits data . I just tested it on SpeechDat - Car .\nProfessor D: Ah ! So {disfmarker} so that means the only thing {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: Mm - hmm . So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} so these numbers are simply {disfmarker}\nPhD E: This , we have to {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD B: But this number .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So you {disfmarker} so you just should look at that fifty - eight perc point O nine percent and so on .\nPhD E: Yes .\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD E: Right . Right .\nProfessor D: OK . Good .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Um , Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: So this {disfmarker} So by {disfmarker} uh , by {disfmarker} by reducing the noise a {disfmarker} a decent threshold like minus thirty DB , it 's like {disfmarker} Uh , you are like r r reducing the floor of the noisy regions , right ?\nProfessor G: s\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah . The floor is lower . Um ,\nPhD B: Uh - huh .\nPhD E: mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: I 'm sorry . So when you say minus twenty - five or minus thirty DB , with respect to what ?\n",
      "PhD E: To the average um , speech energy which is estimated on the world database .\nProfessor D: OK , so basically you 're creating a signal - to - noise ratio of twenty - five or thirty DB ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: uh r\nPhD E: But it 's not {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think what you do is this .\nPhD E: it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: i When {disfmarker} when you have this , {vocalsound} after you subtracted it , I mean , then you get something w w with this , uh , where you set the values to zero and then you simply add an additive constant again .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: So you shift it somehow . This {disfmarker} this whole curve is shifted again .\nProfessor D: But did you do that before the thresholding to zero ,\nPhD E: Right . It 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD E: But , it 's after the thresholding .\n",
      "Professor G: \nProfessor D: Oh ,\nPhD E: So ,\nProfessor D: so you 'd really want to do it before ,\nPhD E: maybe {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: right ?\nPhD E: maybe we might do it before ,\nProfessor D: Yeah , because then the {disfmarker} then you would have less of that phenomenon .\nPhD E: yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor D: I think .\nPhD E: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: E Hhh .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: c\n",
      "PhD E: But still , when you do this and you take the log after that , it {disfmarker} it reduce the {disfmarker} the variance .\nProfessor D: Yeah , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Right .\nPhD E: But {disfmarker} Mmm ,\nProfessor D: Yeah , that will reduce the variance . That 'll help . But maybe if you does {disfmarker} do it before you get less of these funny - looking things he 's drawing .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Um ,\n",
      "PhD B: So before it 's like adding this , col to the {disfmarker} to the {disfmarker} o exi original {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}\nPhD E: We would {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Right at the point where you 've done the subtraction .\nPhD B: OK .\nProfessor D: Um , essentially you 're adding a constant into everything .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: But the way Stephane did it , it is exactly the way I have implemented in the phone , so .\n",
      "Professor D: Oh , yeah , better do it different , then . Yeah .\nPhD E: Um .\nProfessor D: Just you {disfmarker} you just ta you just set it for a particular signal - to - noise ratio that you want ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah I {disfmarker} I made s similar investigations like Stephane did here , just uh , adding this constant and {disfmarker} and looking how dependent is it on the value of the constant\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor G: and then , must choose them somehow {vocalsound} to give on average the best results for a certain range of the signal - to - noise ratios .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: So {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Oh , it 's clear . I should have gi given other results . Also it 's clear when you don't add noise , it 's much worse . Like , around five percent worse I guess .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD E: And if you add too much noise it get worse also . And it seems that {vocalsound} right now this {disfmarker} this is c a constant that does not depend on {disfmarker} {comment} on anything that you can learn from the utterance . It 's just a constant noise addition . Um . And I {disfmarker} I think w w\nProfessor D: I {disfmarker} I 'm sorry . Then {disfmarker} then I 'm confused .\nPhD E: I think {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor D: I thought {disfmarker} you 're saying it doesn't depend on the utterance but I thought you were adding an amount that was twenty - five DB down from the signal energy .\nPhD E: Yeah , so the way I did that , {comment} i I just measured the average speech energy of the {disfmarker} all the Italian data .\nProfessor D: Oh !\nPhD E: And then {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I have {disfmarker} I used this as mean speech energy . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Oh , it 's just a constant amount over all .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: OK .\nPhD E: wha what I observed is that for Italian and Spanish , {comment} when you go to thirty and twenty - five DB , {comment} uh it {disfmarker} it 's good .\nPhD B: Oh .\n",
      "PhD E: It stays {disfmarker} In this range , it 's , uh , the p u well , the performance of the {disfmarker} this algorithm is quite good . But for Finnish , {vocalsound} you have a degradation already when you go from thirty - five to thirty and then from thirty to twenty - five . And {disfmarker} I have the feeling that maybe it 's because just Finnish has a mean energy that 's lower than {disfmarker} than the other databases . And due to this the thresholds should be {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: the {disfmarker} the a the noise addition should be lower\nProfessor D: But in {disfmarker} I mean , in the real thing you 're not gonna be able to measure what people are doing over half an hour or an hour , or anything , right ?\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: So you have to come up with this number from something else .\nPhD E: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Uh , but you are not doing it now language dependent ? Or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD E: It 's not . It 's just something that 's fixed .\nProfessor G: No . It 's overall .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: OK .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: But what he is doing language dependent is measuring what that number i reference is that he comes down twenty - five down from .\nPhD E: Yeah , so I g No . It {disfmarker} No .\nProfessor D: No ?\nPhD E: Because I did it {disfmarker} I started working on Italian . I obtained this average energy\nProfessor D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: and then I used this one .\nPhD B: For all the languages . OK .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor D: So it 's sort of arbitrary .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: I mean , so if y if {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD E: Yep .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nPhD E: Um , yeah , so the next thing is to use this as {disfmarker} as maybe initialization\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD E: and then use something on - line .\nProfessor D: Something more adaptive ,\n",
      "PhD E: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And I expect improvement at least in Finnish because eh {disfmarker} the way {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: yeah . OK .\n",
      "PhD E: Well , um , for Italian and Spanish it 's {disfmarker} th this value works good but not necessarily for Finnish . Mmm . But unfortunately there is , like , this forty millisecond latency and , um {disfmarker} Yeah , so I would try to somewhat reduce this @ @ . I already know that if I completely remove this latency , so . {vocalsound} um , {comment} it {disfmarker} um there is a three percent hit on Italian .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: d Does latency {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: i\n",
      "PhD B: Sorry . Go ahead .\nProfessor G: Yeah . Your {disfmarker} your smoothing was @ @ {comment} uh , over this s so to say , the {disfmarker} the factor of the Wiener . And then it 's , uh {disfmarker} What was it ? This {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: this smoothing , it was over the subtraction factor , so to say .\nPhD E: It 's a smoothing over the {disfmarker} the gain of the subtraction algorithm .\n",
      "Professor G: Was this done {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . And {disfmarker} and you are looking into the future , into the past .\nPhD E: Right .\nProfessor G: And smoothing .\nPhD E: So , to smooth this {pause} thing .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: And did {disfmarker} did you try simply to smooth um to smooth the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} t to {disfmarker} to smooth stronger the {disfmarker} the envelope ?\n",
      "PhD E: Um , no , I did not .\nProfessor G: Mmm .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nProfessor G: Because I mean , it should have a similar effect if you {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: I mean , you {disfmarker} you have now several stages of smoothing , so to say . You start up . As far as I remember you {disfmarker} you smooth somehow the envelope , you smooth somehow the noise estimate ,\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Mmm {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor G: and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and later on you smooth also this subtraction factor .\nPhD E: Uh , no , it 's {disfmarker} it 's just the gain that 's smoothed actually\nPhD B: Uh , actually I d I do all the smoothing .\nPhD E: but it 's smoothed {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Ah . Oh , it w it was you .\nPhD B: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD E: Uh {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . No , in this case it 's just the gain .\n",
      "Professor G: Yeah .\nPhD E: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor G: Uh - huh .\nPhD E: But the way it 's done is that um , for low gain , there is this non nonlinear smoothing actually . For low gains um , I use the smoothed sm uh , smoothed version but {disfmarker} for high gain @ @ {comment} it 's {disfmarker} I don't smooth .\n",
      "Professor G: Uh . Mm - hmm . I just , uh {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} Experience shows you , if {disfmarker} if you do the {disfmarker}  The best is to do the smoo smoothing as early as possible .\nPhD E: Uh - huh .\nProfessor G: So w when you start up . I mean , you start up with the {disfmarker} with the {disfmarker} somehow with the noisy envelope .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: And , best is to smooth this somehow .\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm . Uh , yeah , I could try this . Um .\nProfessor G: And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: So , before estimating the SNR , @ @ smooth the envelope .\nProfessor G: Yeah . Yeah . Uh - huh .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . But {disfmarker} Yeah . Then I {disfmarker} I would need to find a way to like smooth less also when there is high energy . Cuz I noticed that it {disfmarker} it helps a little bit to s like smooth more during low energy portions and less during speech ,\nProfessor G: Yes , y\n",
      "PhD E: because if you smooth then y you kind of distort the speech .\nProfessor G: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD E: Um .\nProfessor G: Right .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Yeah , I think when w you {disfmarker} you could do it in this way that you say , if you {disfmarker} if I 'm {disfmarker} you have somehow a noise estimate ,\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: and , if you say I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} with my envelope I 'm close to this noise estimate ,\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: then you have a bad signal - to - noise ratio and then you {disfmarker} you would like to have a stronger smoothing .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: So you could {disfmarker} you could base it on your estimation of the signal - to - noise ratio on your actual {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mmm .\nPhD B: Yeah , or some silence probability from the VAD if you have {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Um , yeah , but I don't trust {vocalsound} the current VAD . So .\nPhD B: Yeah , uh , so not {disfmarker} not right now maybe .\nPhD E: Well , maybe .\nProfessor D: The VAD later will be much better .\nPhD E: Maybe .\nProfessor D: Yeah . So . I see .\nPhD F: So is {pause} that it ?\nPhD E: Uh , fff {comment} I think that 's it . Yeah . Uh .\n",
      "Professor G: s So to summarize the performance of these , SpeechDat - Car results is similar than {disfmarker} than yours so to say .\nPhD B: Yeah , so the fifty - eight is like the be some fifty - six point {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Y you have {disfmarker} you have fifty - six point four\nPhD B: Yeah , that 's true .\nProfessor G: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and dependent on this additive constant , it is s better or {disfmarker} or worse .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD B: Slightly better .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD H:  \nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nPhD E: And , {vocalsound} yeah , i i i the condition where it 's better than your approach , it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} just because maybe it 's better on well matched and that the weight on well matched is {disfmarker} is bigger ,\nPhD B: Yeah . Yeah , you {disfmarker} you caught up .\nPhD E: because {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Yep , that 's true .\nPhD E: if you don't weigh differently the different condition , you can see that your {disfmarker} well , the win the two - stage Wiener filtering is maybe better or {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD E: It 's better for high mismatch , right ?\nPhD B: Yeah , it 's better for high mismatch .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . But a little bit worse for well matched .\nPhD B: So over all it gets , yeah , worse for the well matched condition , so y\nPhD E: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD F: So we need to combine these two .\nPhD B: Uh , that 's {disfmarker} that 's the best thing , is like the French Telecom system is optimized for the well matched condition . They c\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Yeah . So they know that the weighting is good for the well matched , and so there 's {disfmarker} everywhere the well matched 's s s performance is very good for the French Telecom .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD B: T we are {disfmarker} we may also have to do something similar @ @ .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Well , our tradition here has always been to focus on the mismatched .\nPhD B: Um the {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Cuz it 's more interesting .\nProfessor G: Mu - my {disfmarker} mine was it too , I mean .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Before I started working on this Aurora .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: so .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah . OK .\n",
      "PhD F: Carmen ? Do you , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Well , I only say that the {disfmarker} this is , a summary of the {disfmarker} of all the VTS experiments and say that the result in the last {comment} um , for Italian {disfmarker} the last experiment for Italian , {vocalsound} are bad . I make a mistake when I write . Up at D I copy {vocalsound} one of the bad result .\nPhD B: So you {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD H: And {disfmarker} There . {vocalsound} You know , this . Um , well . If we put everything , we improve a lot u the spectral use of the VTS but the final result {vocalsound} are not still mmm , good {vocalsound} like the Wiener filter for example . I don't know . Maybe it 's {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} it 's possible to {disfmarker} to have the same result .\nPhD B: That 's somewhere {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD H: I don't know exactly . Mmm . Because I have , {vocalsound} mmm , {comment} worse result in medium mismatch and high mismatch .\nPhD B: You s you have a better r Yeah . You have some results that are good for the high mismatch .\nPhD H: And {disfmarker} Yeah . I someti are more or less similar but {disfmarker} but are worse . And still I don't have the result for TI - digits . The program is training . Maybe for this weekend I will have result TI - digits and I can complete that s like this . Well .\nProfessor D: Uh . Right .\n",
      "PhD H: One thing that I {comment} note are not here in this result {vocalsound} but are speak {disfmarker} are spoken before with Sunil I {disfmarker} I improve my result using clean LDA filter .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD H: If I use , {vocalsound} eh , the LDA filter that are training with the noisy speech , {vocalsound} that hurts the res my results .\nProfessor D: So what are these numbers here ? Are these with the clean or with the noisy ?\n",
      "PhD H: This is with the clean .\nProfessor D: OK .\nPhD H: With the noise I have worse result , that if I doesn't use it .\nProfessor D: Uh - huh .\nPhD H: But m that may be because {vocalsound} with this technique {vocalsound} we are using really {disfmarker} really clean speech . The speech {disfmarker} the {comment} representation that go to the HTK is really clean speech because it 's from the dictionary , the code book and maybe from that . I don't know .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD H: Because I think that you {disfmarker} did some experiments using the two {disfmarker} the two LDA filter , clean and noi and noise ,\nPhD E: It 's {disfmarker}\nPhD H: and it doesn't matter too much .\nPhD E: Um , yeah , I did that but it doesn't matter on SpeechDat - Car , but , it matters , uh , a lot on TI - digits .\nPhD B: Using the clean filter .\nPhD H: It 's better to use clean .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah , d uh , it 's much better when you {disfmarker} we used the clean derived LDA filter .\nPhD H: Mm - hmm . Maybe you can do d also this .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD H: To use clean speech .\nPhD B: Yeah , I 'll try .\nPhD E: Uh , but , yeah , Sunil in {disfmarker} in your result it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: I {disfmarker} I 'll try the cle No , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} my result is with the noisy {disfmarker} noisy LDA .\nPhD E: It 's with the noisy one . Yeah .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Oh !\nPhD B: It 's with the noisy . Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's not the clean LDA .\nPhD E: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: It 's {disfmarker} In {disfmarker} in the front sheet , I have like {disfmarker} like the summary . Yeah .\nProfessor D: And {disfmarker} and your result {comment} is with the {disfmarker}\nPhD E: It 's with the clean LDA .\nPhD B: Oh . This is {disfmarker} Your results are all with the clean LDA result ?\nPhD H: Yeah , with the clean LDA .\nPhD B: OK . @ @ .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: \n",
      "PhD E: And in your case it 's all {disfmarker} all noisy ,\nPhD H: Is that the reason ?\nPhD B: All noisy , yeah .\nPhD E: yeah . But {disfmarker}\nPhD H: And {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Uh {disfmarker} \nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD E: But I observe my case it 's in , uh , uh , at least on SpeechDat - Car it doesn't matter but TI - digits it 's like two or three percent absolute , uh , {comment} better .\n",
      "PhD B: On TI - digits this matters . Absolute . Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor D: So you really might wanna try the clean I think .\nPhD E: So if {disfmarker}\nPhD B: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I will have to look at it . Yeah , that 's true .\nProfessor D: Yeah . Yeah , that could be sizeable right there .\nPhD H: And this is everything .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nProfessor D: OK .\nProfessor G: Maybe you {disfmarker} you are leaving in {disfmarker} in about two weeks Carmen . No ?\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah . So I mean , if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if I would put it {disfmarker} put on the head of a project mana manager {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I I would say , uh , um {disfmarker} I mean there is not so much time left now .\nProfessor D: Be my guest .\n",
      "Professor G: I mean , if {disfmarker} {vocalsound} um , what {disfmarker} what I would do is I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I would pick @ @ {comment} the best consolation , which you think , and {vocalsound} c create {disfmarker} create all the results for the whole database that you get to the final number as {disfmarker} as Sunil did it\nPhD H: And prepare at the s\n",
      "Professor G: and {vocalsound} um and maybe also to {disfmarker} to write somehow a document where you describe your approach , and what you have done .\nPhD H: Yeah , I was thinking to do that next week .\nProfessor D: Yeah .\nProfessor G: Yeah .\nProfessor D: Yeah , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll borrow the head back and {disfmarker} and agree . Yeah ,\nPhD H: Yeah , I wi I {disfmarker} I will do that next week .\n",
      "Professor D: that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} Right . In fact , actually I g I guess the , uh {disfmarker} the Spanish government , uh , requires that anyway . They want some kind of report from everybody who 's in the program .\nPhD H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor D: So . And of course I 'd {disfmarker} we 'd {disfmarker} we 'd like to see it too . So ,\nPhD H: OK .\nProfessor D: yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: So , um , what 's {disfmarker} Do you think we , uh , should do the digits or skip it ? Or what are {disfmarker} what do you think ?\nProfessor D: Uh , we have them now ?\nPhD F: Yeah , got them .\nProfessor D: Uh , why don why don't we do it ?\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor D: Just {comment} {disfmarker} just take a minute .\nPhD H: I can send yet .\nPhD F: Would you pass those down ?\nProfessor D: Oh ! Sorry .\n",
      "PhD F: OK , um , so I guess I 'll go ahead . Um ,\nProfessor D: Seat ?\nPhD E: Dave ? Is it the channel , or the mike ? I don't remember . It 's the mike ?\nProfessor D: Mike ?\nPhD E: It 's not four .\nPhD H: This is date and time . No . On the channel , channel .\nProfessor G: What is this ?\nPhD B: t\nPhD F: OK , if you could just leave , um , your mike on top of your , uh , digit form I can fill in any information that 's missing .\nProfessor G: OK .\n"
    ],
    "length": 24683,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 74,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "The meeting was about the potential consequences of the COVID-19 in Canada. The members put forward several petitions to ask for further attention for the people in need, say, the children, the workers who would suffer unemployment, and the creators who made a living on artworks, and also many other stakeholders from all walks of life, trying to ensure the life quality of their people during such a harsh time. Some of the group members mentioned some social problems, including the economic depression, racial discrimination, social security, and the environmental pollution,to call for a maintenance of the wealthy and healthy community in Canada. Through the discussion, it could be found that fortunately, some of the problems had been dealt with extra funds and cooperation with other related organizations.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order.  Welcome to the 23rd meeting of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic.  A reminder to all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those of you who are joining via video conference, I will remind you that when speaking you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking, and please use your headsets. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. As I understand, there are no ministerial announcements today.  We will now proceed to presenting petitions. I remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of this special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, I ask that they please come and drop their signed certificates off at the table once the petition is presented. I would ask members to be very brief and concise, and to summarize the exact content of the petition. We will continue. The first person presenting a petition today is Ms. May.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I present two petitions this morning. The residents of SaanichGulf Islands are calling on the government to simplify the process for protection of marine protected areas. It's a multi-layered communication process. The marine protected area first proposed in the 1970s for the southern Strait of Georgia, now called the Salish Sea, has been awaiting designation for so long that it was originally endorsed by Jacques Cousteau. That gives us a sense for why petitioners are calling for a simplified and more rapid process. The second petition is from petitioners who are very concerned about our obligations under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and our commitments under the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. They specifically reference the RCMP violation of UNDRIP in its actions on Wet'suwet'en territory and ask the government to commit to actually living the principles embodied in UNDRIP.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Mr. Hardie.\nMr. Ken Hardie (FleetwoodPort Kells, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am presenting a petition on behalf of the one in a million Canadians who suffer severe and adverse effects from vaccinations. GuillainBarre syndrome is very debilitating, and this petition seeks the setting up of a no-fault accident or compensation system to help offset the loss of work, the loss of wages and the loss of quality of life that many of these people suffer. I'm pleased to present this petition pursuant to Standing Order 36.\nThe Chair: Mr.Trudel, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Denis Trudel (LongueuilSaint-Hubert, BQ): Mr.Chair, culture is the soul of a people. Over the past 20years or so, culture, especially music, has never been as accessible as it is now. Paradoxically, creators' incomes have never been so low. The advent of digital technology has completely overturned the system for distributing the wealth generated by creators for the benefit of various Web stakeholders, many of whom are billionaires. This petition addresses these problems and proposes realistic solutions. The first is to set a minimum royalty model for streaming platforms for artists. The second is to update the existing private copying system. The third is for Internet and cell phone providers who sell their services as direct access to culture to share their profits with artists. The fourth is that the GAFAMs have to pay taxes on their services. Six thousand people have already signed the first version of this petition, launched last month by musician JordanOfficer and supported by singer BarbaraSecours. As an artist, I am proud to present this petition today because the issues it raises are fundamental to the survival of Quebec culture.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I have four petitions to present today. I will be as brief as you suggested, although I will observe that if some members are going on longer during petitions than they normally do, it might be because the government has taken away so many of the tools that opposition members normally have for raising important issues in the House. The first petition deals with the issue of euthanasia and long-term care. The petitioners are concerned that instead of focusing on improving medically assisted life, something that we know is a major issue in light of recent revelations, the government has put so much time and legislative energy into efforts to continually further expand euthanasia in Canada and remove vital safeguards. The second petition speaks to the ongoing conversations happening in Canada around systemic discrimination and systemic racism. I think we do need to reflect on systemic discrimination. This petition deals specifically with Bill 21 in Quebec and raises concerns. The reality of the way that bill applies is that people from certain backgrounds who wish to practise their faith are not able to fully participate in Canadian society if they are employed in the public service. This petition asks the government to provide a response on that issue, something it hasn't done in response to past petitions on this. The third petition deals with the issue of firearms. The petitioners want to see the government take a strong response in dealing with illegal guns and gun smuggling. The petition notes that the vast majority of firearms-related crimes in Canada involves illegal guns. At the same time, the petitioners are concerned that the government has the wrong focusthat is, harassing law-abiding firearms ownerswithout putting in place substantial measures to deal with illegal guns. The petitioners want to see the reversal of the order in council from May 1 and strong measures to deal with illegal firearms. The fourth and final petition deals with Bill S-204, a bill that would make it a criminal offence for a Canadian to go abroad and receive an organ from a person who has not consented to giving that organ. It would also create a mechanism by which someone could be deemed inadmissible to Canada if they were involved in organ harvesting and trafficking. The petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204 and of similar bills in previous parliaments and would like to see us pass that bill as soon as possible.\n",
      "The Chair: Presenting petitions, Mr. Lamoureux.\nMr. Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is with pleasure that I table another petition by the residents of Winnipeg North. These residents have signed a petition asking the Government of Canada, and in fact all members of Parliament, to put a high priority on assisting our poorest seniors. The increases to the GIS by $200, and $300 to the OAS, have been well received. They just want to highlight how important it is to support our seniors, in particular the poorest of our seniors.\n",
      "The Chair: For members present in the Chamber, a reminder that they are asked to bring their petitions to the table. We'll now proceed to statements by members. We'll go to Ms. Atwin for the first one.\n",
      "Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Fredericton, GP): Thank you, Mr. Chair. June 21 is National Indigenous Peoples Day, a day of acknowledgement and a day of celebration of the beautiful diversity of indigenous peoples across Turtle Island. I wish to recognize the leadership of Chief Shelley Sabattis of the Welamukotuk First Nation in Oromocto, New Brunswick. Each year she and her council, volunteers and staff go above and beyond to show appreciation for their members and to demonstrate pride and culture while promoting well-being. We gather in an event where all are welcome to take part, from traditional hand drum-making with elders to moose meat and tacos. This year we will celebrate a bit differently, but we will still stay connected, virtually and in spirit, to the vast network of indigenous peoples and allies. We need each other now more than ever. May we come together in song and stories and in solidarity. We will remember those who are not among us. I hope all of Canada will join us in observing National Indigenous Peoples Day.  Mawiyapasuwok: let us come together. Nit liech.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Beech.\n",
      "Mr. Terry Beech (Burnaby NorthSeymour, Lib.): Mr. Chair, COVID-19 is an unprecedented challenge for all communities across Canada, but as we do our part to flatten the curve, I often think about those who suit up every morning to serve on the front lines of our health care system. My mother is a home care worker and my sister is a nurse. Even before the crisis, they would often share the hardships they faced on a day-to-day basis. It's a tough job at the best of times. In a pandemic, these jobs are life-threatening. I think we can all agree that these workers deserve more than our good wishes. They deserve a raise. That is why we have worked with the provinces to implement pandemic pay. In British Columbia more than 250,000 front-line workers are eligible for this program. That works out to a pay increase of about $4 an hour. It's a small show of our appreciation for their difficult and priceless contribution to our country. Share this message and say thanks to our front-line workers, participate in the 7 p.m. cheer, and order a pizza for your local nurses. It's the least we can do.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go on to Mr. Shipley.\n",
      "Mr. Doug Shipley (BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been living in difficult times. Slowly, we are getting back to some resemblance of normalcy, although unfortunately not soon enough for some of our great summer festivals. It will not be normal in BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte this summer without the iconic Boots and Hearts weekend music festival, Kempenfest, Oro World's Fair, the Elmvale Fall Fair, or the Midhurst Autumnfest. Canada Day celebrations have been cancelled, but we can still celebrate the great nation we call home. Because of the lack of Canada Day celebrations, I've created Happy Canada Day lawn signs that are available through my constituency office, free to all residents of BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte. I'm also hosting a drive-through party on Canada Day at the Royal Canadian Legion on St. Vincent Street in Barrie. All are welcome to attend. There will be cupcakes for all. Please drop by the legion between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m., and we can celebrate Canada Day safely together. Thank you and have a great summer.\n",
      "The Chair: Now we'll go on to Ms. Young.\n",
      "Ms. Kate Young (London West, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Among the countless ordinary Canadians who have stepped up to do extraordinary work during COVID-19, I wish to draw attention to our teachers. Teachers have always had a special place in my heart. My father was a teacher, and my daughter-in-law, Kelly Webb, is one now. I'm certain that my colleagues can all easily remember a teacher in their past who played an important role in helping them achieve their potential. I remember my grade 12 English teacher, Vince Weaver, at Westminster Secondary School in London. He made me realize that I could do so much more than I believed. Across the country, as schools closed, teachers did not stop their work. Some took their classes online. Others found innovative ways to continue engaging with their students. This is not the school year anyone imagined, and what the next one will look like is unclear, but our teachers in London West and across Canada have shown that no matter what, they will be there to help our next generation shine.\n",
      "The Chair: Before proceeding to the next presenter, I just want to remind the honourable members in the chamber that I realize that the six-foot limit makes it harder to whisper to each other, but we're hearing a bit of rumble, so I just want you to try to whisper at your best. Mr.Bergeron, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Stphane Bergeron (Montarville, BQ): Mr.Chair, on July1st, we will be celebrating one of the most important events for the riding of Montarville: the 175thanniversary of the city of Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville. The theme Proud of our traditions will be the focus of this celebration for the people of Montarville. This is a good illustration of the rich history of this municipality nestled in the western foothills of Mont-Saint-Bruno. The seigneury of Montarville was granted in1710 to the illustrious former governor of Trois-Rivires, PierreBoucher. The parish of Saint-Bruno, which took root there and in which a village grew, became a municipal corporation in1845. To this day, it is one of the most prosperous localities, with a strong sense of belonging, a very dynamic community life and jealously preserved natural environments. A whole program had been drawn up for the celebration, but the current health crisis has taken over some of the planned activities, which has in no way diminished the pride and festive spirit of the people of Montarville. On July1st, we will have a good reason to be proud, in spite of everything. Happy 175thanniversary to Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Maloney.\n",
      "Mr. James Maloney (EtobicokeLakeshore, Lib.): Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a moment to highlight an initiative that I started early on during the COVID-19 pandemic. The Heroes of EtobicokeLakeshore is an opportunity for citizens in my riding to recognize the contributions of those in their community who make life a bit easier. I'm pleased with the number of nominations I received that honour everyone from front-line workers to businesses that are innovating in these difficult times to volunteers who are finding new ways to reach out. I think of Daniel Lauzon who set up Food for Now, a mobile service that helps take care of the homeless. I think of Toni Varone, who helped his business clients by forgiving their rents, or young Lucas, who wanted to thank his teachers. I've been moved and inspired by the countless stories of generosity, strength, resiliency, kindness, incredible character and creativity. I want to thank all the heroes, as well as the people who nominated them. Keep them coming. Stay safe, everyone, and I wish you happy Canada Day early.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now move on to Ms. Wong.\n",
      "Hon. Alice Wong (Richmond Centre, CPC): Mr. Chair, it gives me great pleasure to thank a local Richmond-based charity, the Social Diversity for Children Foundation, SDC, for its hard work both in raising funds for the purchase of personal protective equipment and in distributing this PPE to long-term care facilities and individual seniors' homes in the lower mainland of B.C. The COVID-19 relief fund is supported by a dozen other non-profits, businesses and community groups. Over the past two months, SDC has been to 32 seniors homes and senior-related organizations. In total, it has delivered masks to 7,000 care workers, staff and seniors. It is amazing to have witnessed how the younger generation have gotten involved in caring for the elderly at this very challenging time.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Ms. Damoff.\n",
      "Ms. Pam Damoff (Oakville NorthBurlington, Lib.): Mr. Chair, June is ALS Awareness Month, and 79 years after Lou Gehrig died from ALS little has changed. There's still no cure, and those with ALS typically die within five years of diagnosis. On June 21, Canadians will gather virtually to raise funds for ALS Canada in the Walk to End ALS. In Halton, normally we meet each year at Bronte Creek Provincial Park on the May long weekend to raise funds for ALS Canada. This year I will virtually join Tim's Titans, a team formed to honour Tim Robertson, my friend who died in 2016 after living with ALS for 13 years. I have a T-shirt, with a picture of Lou Gehrig, that says, Great Player...Lousy Disease and Tim's Titans...Great Team! ALS...Still a Lousy Disease. Join me on June 21 for the virtual Walk to End ALS to raise funds to support patients and their families and for ALS research.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Khera.\n",
      "Ms. Kamal Khera (Brampton West, Lib.): Mr. Chair, on Saturday our community stood and marched in solidarity against anti-black racism. The peaceful protests that we're seeing across the country and around the world were not triggered by an isolated incident. They are fuelled by decades of ineffective action against something that is so insidious and deeply entrenched in our history, systems and institutions. For us, that is the racial inequality faced by Canada's indigenous and black communities. Anti-black racism is real. It exists right here in Canada, in our communities, including in Brampton. It exists when racialized students at McCrimmon Middle School are called McCriminals. It exists when a shocking report exposes the Peel District School Board's failure to work fairly with the black community. It exists when D'Andre Campbell, who was fighting mental illness, loses his life at the hands of the police. It is clear that we need reform. We need to dismantle the systems that allow this privilege and oppression to take form, and address the unconscious bias plaguing our institutions. We'll need to be bold, and the time to do that is now.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Lloyd.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Mr. Chair, a few months ago I rose in the House on the eve of our closure due to COVID-19. I told Canadians we must not give in to fear, that we would carry on and get through this crisis stronger than ever. Today, in this city and across Canada, Canadians are enjoying a beer on their favourite patios. Businesses are reopening, jobs are returning and our lives are starting to feel a bit normal again. Canadians pulled together, and because of that we did not see the devastating death toll that many had predicted. Life may be returning to normal, but unfortunately, here in this chamber of democracy, the people's voices continue to be shut down. There is no good reason for Parliament to be suspended today. In the words of my grandfather, it's time for the Liberals to get with the program and bring back the House.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now proceed with Ms. Jones.\n",
      "Ms. Yvonne Jones (Labrador, Lib.): Mr. Chair, from in-person learning to virtual classrooms, COVID-19 has drastically changed the lives of students across the country, especially those in post-secondary education who are worried about covering costs like tuition or rent this coming fall. Our government recognized that students should not have to worry or put their futures on pause during this difficult time. That's why last month the federal government introduced the Canada emergency student benefit. If you're a high school student headed to a post-secondary school, or a current post-secondary student or a recent graduate, you can receive the Canada emergency student benefit every four weeks and have the financial support that you need to save for school. We also doubled Canada student grants and loans, enhanced the student loan program, increased supports for indigenous post-secondary education and introduced the Canada student service grant for those who wish to pursue it. Our government is here to help all students get the support they need to pursue their future goals successfully. I wish them all the very best, and I wish all of you, my colleagues and those across Canada, a very happy National Indigenous Peoples Day, which is coming up on June 21.\n",
      "The Chair: I want to remind the honourable members to keep to their 60 seconds so that we don't go over the time. I'm sure it would be a lot easier for everyone if we stuck to that limit. We will now go to Mr. Aitchison.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Aitchison (Parry SoundMuskoka, CPC): Mr. Chair, I rise today to once again implore the government to do something about the horrible lack of access to and crazy cost of rural Internet service. Right now, too many areas of my riding have no access to rural Internet service at all, and those who can get service are paying through the nose. I've even heard constituents say that during this pandemic, they are having to choose between feeding their kids and educating them. Over the last few weeks, Conservatives have been consulting with rural Canadians, and the results are in. My constituents are tired of fancy political promises. They are frustrated beyond belief by the new challenges created by this pandemic. They are absolutely fed up with having their pleas ignored. All we want is affordable and reliable Internet service. Is that too much to ask of the government?\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. MacGregor.\n",
      "Mr. Alistair MacGregor (CowichanMalahatLangford, NDP): Mr. Chair, these last few months have been incredibly challenging for the residents of CowichanMalahatLangford, who have been forced to deal with the economic and social consequences of COVID-19. The pandemic has laid bare the inadequacies of our social safety net, the weakness in our supply chains and the dependence of our society on essential workers, who often work long hours for low wages, putting themselves and their families at risk. We've also been forced to confront the systemic inequality, poverty and racism that continue to hold so many people back from achieving their full potential. I will not dishonour the sacrifice that so many have made during this time by allowing us to go back to the status quo that got us here in the first place. I will not apologize for demanding that the most vulnerable in our society get the supports and opportunities they need to live with dignity, and I will not relent from pushing my political colleagues to summon the courage necessary to implement policies that lead to environmental, economic and social justice.\n",
      "The Chair: I now give the floor to Mr.Blaney.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Mr.Chair, here is a beautiful story, the story of a woman from Bellechasse, a courageous young mother from Saint-Malachie, Marie-ChristineGoupil. With three children, including the eldest daughter with a disability, and realizing that her daughter with a disability had special clothing needs, she decided to go into business to meet the needs of other parents who, like her, were facing their child's clothing challenges. Last week, she presented her Handy clothing collection on the show Dans l'il du dragon. It was a very emotional moment for the audience and the dragons. They were so touched that they decided to give her the amount she wanted without diluting her shares. The video of her presentation has already been viewed over 1million times on social networks. Marie-ChristineGoupil has discovered a passion for entrepreneurship and has moved and inspired many people with her passionate and courageous attitude. Congratulations, Ms.Goupil, your example makes us proud.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Blanchet, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet (BeloeilChambly, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I lend my voice to the Chief of the Assembly of First Nations of Quebec-Labrador, GhislainPicard, whose message is as follows:     There have been no fewer than 14reports and conclusions of commissions of inquiry since1967 highlighting major problems in relations between law enforcement agencies and indigenous people. Each time, the conclusions have been overwhelming and highlight a disturbing reality.       The justice system has failed indigenous people. Are you going to respond, as you too often do, by moving on to the next one, or are you going to do what we expect you to do, which is to recognize that the justice system discriminates against indigenous people and that we have no less right to security than the rest of the population? In three months, police interventions have claimed more victims among our members than the pandemic. But it is not enough to simply take a knee and denounce racism. It's about standing up and taking action.   Those are the words of GhislainPicard.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Harder.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC): Over the last few months, Canada's democracy has been disregarded and an autocracy has been resurrected in its place. By refusing to hold regular parliamentary sittings, Mr. Trudeau is sending a strong message to the Canadian public that he alone is the one who matters. In 2014, he professed that Canadians want their Members of Parliament to be effective voices for their communities in Ottawa, and not merely mouthpieces for an all-too-powerful Prime Minister. As it stands, however, he has shut down Parliament. Effectively, he has stripped us, the opposition, of our privileges and our powers. Sadly, Mr. Trudeau has become the all-too-powerful Prime Minister that he once warned against. A government that does not allow for effective opposition is not functioning in the best interest of Canadians; it is operating in the best interest of itself and, even more so, the interest of the Prime Minister. Canadians deserve to flourish in a democracy, not merely survive under the autocracy that this Prime Minister has created.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go on to Ms. Zahid.\n",
      "Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I would like to recognize the work of Agincourt Community Services Association and its tireless executive director, Lee Soda, who have been serving our community during the COVID-19 pandemic. Under more pressure than ever, their staff and volunteers continue to serve a community whose need was great even before the crisis. Their food bank helps over 4,000 people weekly. They have opened outdoor washrooms and hand-washing stations for vulnerable communities and are delivering groceries and other essentials to vulnerable seniors. ACSA is a bridge between those who can help and those who need help, and they are just one example of how our community has come together to meet this challenge. There are restaurants and businesses donating meals to front-line workers, residents answering the call to stock the food bank shelves and neighbours looking in on the vulnerable and isolated. I am so proud of our community's spirit. Scarborough is strong.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings twice in order to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to replace each other safely. The first question goes to the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Chair, for months Conservatives have been pointing out flaws in Liberal government programs that are preventing Canadians from getting the help they need. The Prime Minister has refused to make these very technical changes to get more help to Canadians who need it. For example, on the wage subsidy, more than two-thirds of the money allocated for that program has lapsed because businesses don't qualify. I have a simple question. Will the Prime Minister change the program to allow companies who have made acquisitions to access the wage subsidy to keep more people working?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Lib.): Mr. Chair, from the very beginning we knew that as we rolled out measures, we would need to improve them and tweak them, and that's exactly what we've been doing over the past three months. We needed to make measures happen quickly for Canadians, and we did that. But we continued to improve them, to make additions and amendments so that more people could get the help they needed, including with the proposed legislation last week that expanded the reach of the wage subsidy to more businesses. Unfortunately, the Conservatives didn't even want us to debate that particular piece of legislation.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Actually, Mr. Chair, it was the Liberals who said no to the motion to allow this Parliament to sit to debate that motion, and even in that legislation they refused to allow businesses who have made acquisitions to access the program. Now, when we look at the rent relief program, it is so difficult to apply for it that many landlords are refusing to bother, leaving even more small businesses to fall through the cracks. In fact, of the $3 billion allocated to the rent relief program, only $39 million has been paid out. That's less than 2%. Now, the Prime Minister is still using talking points from April. It's now June and he has refused to fix these programs and has successfully talked out the calendar on the days that the House of Commons could meet to discuss these programs. When will he make these changes to get more help to Canadians who need it?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, throughout this pandemic, we have constantly been updating and expanding our various programs. We recognize, in conversations with the premiers, how important it is to make sure that we're working together, the provinces and the federal government, on issues like rent subsidies where commercial rent is indeed a provincial jurisdiction. Many provinces have moved forward with the eviction bans that are necessary to go along with this, and we'll continue to work with provinces to make sure that we're getting Canadians the help they need.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, Canadians cannot wait. He has run down the clock on parliamentary sittings and he still refuses to make these changes to get more help to Canadians. Today, we learned that Telus has installed Huawei technology in downtown Ottawa. There are over 80 sites across the national capital region with Huawei technology installed. Some of these sites are very near sensitive government institutions, like government departments, the National Research Council, RCMP headquarters and the Bank of Canada. How long has the Prime Minister known that Huawei technology has been installed in the Ottawa area?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, first off, on the issue of Parliament, it has been meeting four times a week over the past many weeks, and members of the opposition have been able to continue to ask questions on COVID-19 and a broad range of subjects. Moreover, every two weeks the finance department puts forward at the finance committee the full transparent measures that we've taken, so that parliamentarians can study them. We are continuing to work in this crisis. At the same time\nMr. Ziad Aboultaif (Edmonton Manning, CPC): Answer the question.  The Chair: I'm sorry?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: in regard to Huawei technology there are strict rules for companies to follow and we assume they will all follow those.\nThe Chair: We'll pause for a second and stop the clock. I want to remind the honourable members who are joining us virtually that heckling really does disrupt the whole session. Your face does come up and we do see who it is, so I just want to make sure that you're aware of that. Now we'll go back to Mr. Scheer. We have a minute and 10 seconds left.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister is bragging about accountability and transparency. Will he table an economic update before the House rises?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, throughout this unprecedented pandemic, we have been open and transparent about all of the measures we've put forward. We've updated the finance committee\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: That's a long way of saying no, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister has pursued a policy of appeasement in pursuit of a personal vanity product at the UN. In the process, he's cozied up to dictators and human rights violators. He's abandoned Israel and committed funding to UNRWA, an organization whose schools have been used as storage facilities for Hamas rockets against Israeli civilians, and whose facilities have served as breeding grounds for racism and anti-Semitism. He has apologized for the Iranian regime when it shot down a plane full of Canadian citizens, and he refuses to list the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terrorist entity. What's the point of having a seat at the table if you have to sell out Canadian principles to get there?\n",
      "The Chair: The Right Honourable Prime Minister.\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we see that the Conservatives have kept with the Harper approach to international diplomacy. The failed presence of Canada on the world stage was an embarrassment for many Canadians for many years. That's why, when we took office five years ago, we demonstrated the kind of leadership on values that Canadians expected. We will continue to work around the world to defend multilateralism.\nThe Chair: We have a point of order. Ms. May.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May: This being a committee, we can have a point of order during what would have been question period. I am not sitting that far away from the Prime Minister, and I'm sorry, but Andrew Scheer used to be the Speaker of the House and should show better decorum.\nThe Chair: We have a point of order from Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, on the same point of order, it is disgusting for the leader of the Green Party to use decorum as an excuse to interrupt the Leader of the Opposition in the middle of critical lines of questioning. The leader of the Green Party knows the rules of the House and shouldn't be abusing them to advance a partisan agenda.\nThe Chair: We're getting into debate. I do want to point out that the time had run out. We're now moving on to the next line of questions. On a point of order, Mr. Scheer.\n",
      "Hon. Andrew Scheer: I appreciate the honourable leader of the Green Party, Elizabeth May, for that reminder. When I was Speaker I always appreciated her help and advice about how to improve decorum in here. I just want to say to the member, and to all members, that the reason that I cannot control myself is that the Prime Minister used the word embarrassment in answering a foreign affairs question, and it just made me think of the India trip.\nThe Chair: I believe we're getting into debate and arguments. Mr.Blanchet, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: Mr.Chair, while the Greens and the Conservatives are saying that they'll be waiting outside after the meeting, I will ask a question. The Prime Minister has extended the Canada emergency response benefit, and that's good news, but it's not enough. Last week in the House, the government said it was urgent to fight fraud. For us, it was also urgent to adjust the CERB to the needs of the tourism, arts and agriculture sectors. Farmers are going to be seriously under-resourced. So what happened to the urgency of reforming the CERB? Why is the government refusing to talk to the opposition parties?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, I am very pleased to hear the hon. member finally align himself with the positions of the Liberal Party. Unfortunately, the Bloc is a week late. It should have let us debate these concerns in the House last week.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: It seems to me that the word alignment here is a fantasy. We have unequivocally proposed to extend the debate to reach an agreement, which brings me to my second question. Last week, the issue of assistance to people with disabilities was also a pressing concern, and it's even more so a week later. The Bloc proposed to extend the discussions and split the government's bill in two to help people with disabilities. Why is the government refusing this assistance to people with disabilities, when it could have been debated with the opposition in a civilized and proper way in a Parliament in which it has a minority?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: That was exactly what we wanted, but unanimous consent of the Chamber was required to debate this matter, and the Conservative Party of Canada voted against it. Unfortunately, we are going to have to find a different way to help people with disabilities.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: If the idea is so good and wonderful, why not start over and open the dialogue now? What's stopping the Prime Minister from being a rallying point and inviting us to take to each other and resolve the problem, rather than saying that he is going to pack up his toys and go home? The people with disabilities are the ones who will pay the price. Where was the Prime Minister on October21,2019? He received a minority mandate from Quebeckers and Canadians. Why is he behaving like something between a prime minister with a majority and a monarch by divine right?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: I've heard the Conservative Party and the Bloc Qubcois throw their accusations around. They don't point out that the House of Commons did indeed give its consent to extend the mandate of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic until the end of June. Three parties agreed, which was the right thing to do in the context of this minority government. We've been working with the other parties. However, as they did not get the results they wanted, they complained. Unfortunately, they too are part of a minority Parliament and must respect the voice of the majority of parliamentarians, just as we do.\n",
      "Mr. Yves-Franois Blanchet: I might have been tempted, but that's unlikely to happen because the Prime Minister isn't me, he's him. It's therefore up to him to bring people together, open a dialogue and recall Parliament. All we were asking for was the opportunity to talk for an hour or two. However, suddenly he doesn't want to play anymore. It's not working anymore, and there's something a bit strange about that. In addition, the government wants to buy the right to interfere in provincial and Quebec jurisdictions for $14billion. However, Quebec and a number of provinces are refusing to allow it to interfere in their jurisdictions and are asking that this money be paid to them unconditionally. Is the Prime Minister trying to take advantage of the crisis or is he trying to create a constitutional crisis?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, the safety of Canadians is the responsibility of all levels of government. That's why we have proposed a $14billion agreement to ensure that all Canadians across the country experience a safe re-opening of the economy. This is a proposal that we are working on with the provinces because we know that there are needs across the country, including early childhood centres, screening and support for municipalities. The federal government wants to be there to help the provinces.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr.Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Indigenous leaders have expressed a lack of confidence in the RCMP commissioner's ability to tackle full-scale systemic racism, but the Prime Minister has expressed his confidence in the commissioner. What's that based on?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, over the past two years, Commissioner Lucki has made significant strides forward on an issue where there is still much more to do. We know that systemic racism exists in all of our institutions across this country\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: This is the same RCMP commissioner who just recently said that they couldn't explain what systemic racism was. Now the Prime Minister says that he has confidence, when indigenous leaders express their lack of confidence. Why does the Prime Minister believe that the RCMP commissioner can tackle systemic racism in the RCMP?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, systemic racism is something that touches every corner of our country, every corner of our institutions. It requires people to understand and move forward in coordinated ways with partners. The commissioner is committed to doing that, alongside members of our government. We will do that together and work with indigenous communities and black\nThe Chair: Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, recent events have made it abundantly clear that to tackle the systemic racism at the level of the RCMP, we need a full-scale overhaul of the RCMP. Is the Prime Minister committed to a full-scale overhaul of the RCMP to root out systemic racism?\nRight Hon. Justin Trudeau: As I've said many times, Mr. Chair, I am committed to addressing systemic racism in this country and taking significant, bold actions to reduce the amount of discrimination that indigenous peoples, that racialized Canadians face on a daily basis. We have much work to do, but we will do it together.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, Black Lives Matter has been calling for governments to defund the police. What it's saying is that we need to be better at where we spend our money, investing in communities and not policing. Will the Prime Minister commit to a review of the RCMP budget to allocate resources to community services and not to policing?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, over the past years we have been investing more directly and more money in community organizations, in the black community, and working with indigenous partners on the path to reconciliation. We have been investing in the kinds of community-based programs and solutions that are part of the solution. We know there is much more to do, and we will continue to look at all of our expenditures to make sure we're doing the right things.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, over the past few years, while the Prime Minister has been in office, the RCMP budget has increased by 31%. More money is going towards policing. In recent events we've seen people who needed a health care response to a health care crisis been killed by the RCMP. Does the Prime Minister believe that we need to be investing in a health care response instead of a police response for people who are faced with a crisis?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, the member opposite well knows that it's not an either-or. We need to make sure that our systems across the board, from our police systems to our judicial systems, to our health care systems, to our community systems, are actually addressing the systemic discrimination issues that are embedded within them That is exactly what we are going to continue to do in the coming years.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, with regard to the CERB extension, can the Prime Minister guarantee that everyone who is receiving CERB payments now will continue to do so without any gaps throughout the summer?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, I am happy to highlight that many Canadians who were on the CERB are now returning to work. Many more who are on the CERB now will be returning to work in the coming weeks. We know that as the economy gets back to work, people will want to\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Singh.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Can the Prime Minister assure people who need it that they will continue to receive the CERB over the summer, yes or no?\n",
      "Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: We are very pleased to point out that we are going to extend the Canada emergency response benefit for at least another eight weeks, because a lot of people are going to need it. Even if they want to work, there aren't enough jobs for everyone. So we'll be there for them, as we have been from the beginning.\nThe Chair: We're going to pause and suspend proceedings just for a few moments to allow our support staff to substitute for one another in a healthy and safe way. We'll now proceed with Ms. McLeod.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC): Mr. Chair, it was really a surprise in the middle of a pandemic to see the Prime Minister at his first campaign stop last week in Ottawa. Certainly the game plan has become very transparent. He has a daily report show and he wants to sideline Parliament, dominate the news cycle and keep everyone in the dark about the state of the economy. According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, there is no reason that he cannot provide the fiscal update during the COVID-19 pandemic, and the PBO has published a number of reports himself. Why won't the Prime Minister provide a fiscal update so we can all understand the state of our economy, or is that just not part of his campaign playbook?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Canada's economy is in a period of extraordinary uncertainty due to COVID-19. We've been clear about that. We will continue to be open and transparent about the actions that we are taking to support families, businesses, workers, our health care system and our economy. This includes biweekly reports to Parliament on the full cost and status of our economic measures. Once it is possible to provide a clear economic projection, we will provide an update. We are in this together, and we are prepared to do whatever is necessary to support Canadians.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: Chair, Canada's economy was in trouble prior to the COVID, with some of the worst numbers since 2009. Government revenues in March dropped by 7.2%, and it's shameful and, quite frankly, it's outrageous that they refuse to provide Parliament and Canadians with an economic update. Households during this challenging time know how much money is coming in and they know how much money is going out. The picture is not pretty, but they know what the picture is. Can the finance minister at least reveal the projected revenue decline in quarters one and two?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: The Canadian economy is going through a period of extraordinary uncertainty due to COVID-19. We've known this for three months. We've continued to be open and transparent about the measures we've put in place for Canadians, workers and businesses. In fact, we have reported biweekly to Parliament on the total cost and status of our plan's measures. As soon as it's possible to provide clear economic projections, we will provide a comprehensive update to Canadians\nThe Chair: We go back to Ms. McLeod.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: Other governments have managed to provide updates for their citizens and carry out their responsibilities, but of course this government has sidelined Parliament with simply a question-but-no-answer period. Let's try something else. The forestry industry was in crisis even before the pandemic, with mills closing down and thousands of jobs lost. Eight weeks ago, Minister Freeland said, I have had many discussions with leaders in our forestry sector and the provinces about what we can do to support the industry today. Meanwhile, we've had support going to the arts and we've had support going to fisheries, just to name a few, but arguably for the industry that was having some of the most numerous challenges, it has been radio silence. That was eight weeks ago today. Can the government at least commit to releasing an updated softwood lumber transition plan before we rise?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Chair, we remain committed, of course, to the forestry industry and seeing it through this pandemic and this very uncertain time. The expanding market opportunities program, for instance, has helped Canada's forestry sector diversify, create jobs and open new markets. We've had new construction projects that are active today, using Canadian wood in key markets like Korea, Japan, China and the United States. Tomorrow this House will vote on our government's investment of $20.97 million for this program. It's part of our budget 2019 commitment to invest $251 million over three years, and I hope the opposition will support us in that.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod: It was stated in a major newspaper this morning that this government is like a sexy sports carvroom, vroom, vroombut with a history of breakdowns and major repairs. I think that might describe what has been happening. For forestry, it has been eight weeks and there has been nothing. There is another area that Deputy Prime Minister Freeland did talk about. We were talking about the U.S. softwood lumber duties that are being held in the United States. It's billions of dollars being held with the U.S. treasury. In April, she acknowledged that these duties are a real issue for the softwood lumber industry. What's been done since that time?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada): Mr. Chair, Canada's forestry industry supports good middle-class jobs in communities across our country. The sector is also an essential link in the medical equipment supply chain, and we thank them for all the work they're doing. We're aware of the immense pressures faced by this sector, especially at this time, and Deputy Prime Minister Freeland and others are taking that seriously and working through this issue. As our government has said repeatedly, we firmly believe that the U.S. duties on Canadian softwood lumber are unfair and unwarranted, and we will pursue all means in order to\n",
      "The Chair: Before continuing, I want to remind honourable members who are at home to make sure that the boom on their headsets is down. It just makes a better pickup. We heard everything, but it was a little distant. That's for everyone's benefit. We're now going to continue with Mr.Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr.Chair, before I ask my question, I'd like to pay tribute to the Minister of Justice, particularly to his versatility. Today, he talked about forests. Yesterday, the Minister of Justice talked about Davie and indigenous affairs. Really, this minister is very versatile. My question is directly for the Minister of Finance. I like Mr.Lametti very much, but I'd like Mr.Morneau to answer my question. Yesterday, in a Senate parliamentary committee, the Minister of Finance half-opened the door to an economic update. Based on what he said, it seems that, as we speak, a committee of the Department of Finance is working on an economic update. Could Mr.Morneau tell Canadians when he is going to table this economic update?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, as we know, the Canadian economy is going through a period of extraordinary uncertainty. As soon as it's possible to provide clear economic projections, we will provide a full update to Canadians. Right now, we can say that we have supported workers, businesses and Canadians with the emergency measures we have put in place. We will continue to do so, because we need to be sure that Canadians can get through this crisis.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, I thought it was too good to be true. The Minister of Finance is opening the door, and the Minister of Small Business is closing it. We don't know when the economic update will take place, yet all across Canada, provinces are doing economic updates. Could Mr.Morneau explain to Canadians why he is unable to give one?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, since the beginning of the crisis, we have implemented the economic action plan to respond to COVID-19, and we've provided immediate assistance to Canadians, businesses and workers. Over 2.5million jobs were protected by the Canada emergency wage subsidy. In addition, 8.4million Canadians\nThe Chair: We are returning to Mr.Deltell.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, next Friday, the Quebec minister of finance, EricGirard, will give an economic update. If EricGirard can give one for Quebec, why can't BillMorneau give one for Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr.Chair, once again, we have been open and transparent from the outset. We have devoted our energy to support Canadians, workers and businesses. We will continue to do so.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, I cannot judge the quality of the work done by the provinces, but what I do know is that Quebec, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have also made efforts to support their residents economically. Those provinces are able to table economic updates. Yesterday, Saskatchewan even tabled a budget. Why is Bill Morneau unable to table an economic update for all Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Let me repeat for my hon. colleague that we are going through extraordinarily uncertain times. We have continued to be open and transparent. We have reported biweekly to Parliament on the total cost and status of the measures in our economic response plan. Once again, as soon as clear economic projections can be provided, we will provide an update\nThe Chair: Mr.Deltell has the floor.\nMr. Grard Deltell: The minister talks about the total cost of the government's economic expenditures. So I ask the question: so far, over the past three months, how much has the pandemic cost Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: As I said earlier, it is important to note that we have put forward measures, including the wage subsidy, which have helped more than 2.5million\nThe Chair: Mr.Deltell has the floor.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, I have been trying for four minutes to get anything remotely resembling an answer, and I'm getting absolutely nothing. I am not asking questions for myself; I am asking questions for Canadians. Why are the government and the Minister of Finance, Bill Morneau, not able to table an economic update when some provinces are able to?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Once again, I would like to remind my hon. colleague that we have provided interest-free loans to businesses. More than 669,000loans have been approved. We have continued to support businesses and Canadians during this time\nThe Chair: Mr.Deltell, you have time for a very brief question.\nMr. Grard Deltell: The only thing that distinguishes the provinces that table economic updates and the current government is political will. Why does Bill Morneau not have the political will to tell Canadians the truth?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Once again, we have been open and transparent. As soon as it is possible to provide clear economic projections, we will provide Canadians with a full update.\nThe Chair: We will now continue with Mr. Saroya.\nMr. Bob Saroya (MarkhamUnionville, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. COVID-19 has sparked and spurred anti-Asian racism. These are not just racist comments online; Asian Canadians have been attacked. What is the government doing to combat anti-Asian racism?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth): Mr. Chair, since our government took office in 2015, we have been making investments and working with communities. The difference between our government and the previous government is that we will actually consult with Canadians, including black Canadians, including Asian Canadians, to respond to the challenges, including with an anti-racism secretariat and an anti-racism strategy. It will take all of us. I appreciate the member's question, so that we can also work together.\n",
      "Mr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Chair, one business owner I know in Markham has operated for 20 years. Now she's looking at over $9,000 in rent due on June 24. COVID-19 has crippled her sales and she's going to go out of business. Her landlord has no interest in the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program. How can the government say this program is working?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, this program was made possible by working with the provinces, and we will continue to encourage landlords and tenants to work together to make sure they have relief for this very difficult time in which they're living. We're continuing to monitor the CECRA program and we will make it possible for businesses to have access to the program.\n",
      "Mr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Chair, the government business rent relief program has been a total disaster. Even the government's own numbers show it is a failure. As of June 8, less than 2% of the $3 billion budgeted has been spent. What is it going to take for the government to admit that the program is a disaster and needs changes?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, we know our government has been working closely with the provinces and territories to deliver the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance. Although the tenant-landlord relationship is ultimately the responsibility of the provinces and territories, our government has stepped up to provide support through the tools we have and through CMHC so that small businesses can get the rent relief they need.\n",
      "Mr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Chair, according to the government, there are around 1.1 million small businesses in Canada. At committee, we were told only around 5,500 of them are receiving COVID-19 rent relief. That number is shameful. When will the Liberal government wake up and make the changes?\nHon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, we welcome the steps some provinces and territories have taken to further protect commercial tenants. We will continue to monitor this program closely and ensure that Canada's small businesses are supported during this challenging time. We will continue to monitor to see\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Saroya.\n",
      "Mr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Chair, there was no answer. When can the government make these changes?\nHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable colleague that we are doing everything and will continue to do everything to help small businesses in our country.\nMr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Chair, on May 27 the CBSA seized 65 small handguns at Pearson airport, the largest firearms seizure on record. It is clear that smuggled handguns are the weapon of choice for criminals. Why is the Prime Minister focusing on an ineffective municipal ban?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Mr. Chair, I would point out that gun violence in any of our communities is unacceptable, and it's important that governments and communities take steps to prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals. That's why we do important work at our border to keep guns from being smuggled into our country, but it also necessitates additional work. I don't think you can talk about gun violence without talking about stronger gun control. That's why our government has taken a very strong position and will strengthen gun control to keep Canadians safe.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Saroya, you may have a 10-second question, if that's possible, please.\nMr. Bob Saroya: Mr. Chair, COVID-19 has not stopped gun violence in the GTA. My constituents are concerned about shootings minutes away from their homes. We know the Liberals' gun ban won't change anything, but a focus on smuggled guns and criminals will. When will they make that change?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Mr. Chair, stronger gun control laws are an effective tool, and that's been told to us by police leadership and communities across the country. We're also making investments in borders and law enforcement. Most importantly, we're making investments in communities and in kids to keep communities safe. I look forward to the member's strong support of those measures when we bring them forward.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Hoback.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback (Prince Albert, CPC): Mr. Chair, the U.S. and the U.K. began their second round of free trade negotiations yesterday. Does the government intend to have a trade agreement in place before the U.K. tariffs come into effect on January 1?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, the U.K. is a strong partner of Canada, as is the European Union, and we're looking forward to continuing that strong relationship\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Hoback.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to the negotiations with the U.K., when will the minister publish her goals and objectives for this agreement?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, we're going to continue to work to ensure that any future agreement is going to be based on the best interests of Canadians, and we will\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Can the minister confirm whether they've entered into negotiations with the U.K. at this point?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Our government is analyzing the most-favoured-nation tariff regimes schedule the U.K. has put out. I want to assure Canadians\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, during the CUSMA negotiations, a deal was struck between the Liberal Party and the NDP that the government would notify this House 90 days before it starts any negotiations on any trade agreement. When will the minister notify this House?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that we will absolutely be sharing information. Right now, we are analyzing the most-favoured-nation tariff regimes schedule put out by the U.K.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Mr. Chair, any meaningful attempts to reform the WTO needs buy-in from the United States. I think all countries agree on that. Has the minister discussed a WTO reform with the USTR, the United States trade representative?\nHon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, the Ottawa Group is a consensus-based group, and any decisions will be taken together. Of course, any meaningful reform must include the U.S.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Has the U.S. been invited to the Ottawa Group meetings?\nHon. Mary Ng: The Ottawa Group is a consensus-based group limited to WTO members who are committed to bringing forward ideas and proposals\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Just as with any other trade agreement, the minister has committed to this House that she will publish the list of goals and responsibilities for the negotiations. When will she publish the list for the Ottawa Group?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, I'm thrilled that we had an excellent meeting of the Ottawa Group yesterday where, as a group, we agreed to take concrete action.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Will the minister be releasing a list of Canada's objectives we would like to see the new WTO's director-general pursue prior to the upcoming DG election?\nHon. Mary Ng: We published an action statement from the Ottawa Group yesterday. I would encourage the member opposite to have a look. I'm certainly happy to send it to him.\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: Going back to economic prosperity, we know that the U.S. has been having talks with other countries around the world. Has Canada yet been invited to this group?\nHon. Mary Ng: I'm pleased to continue to pursue the objectives of trade diversification. I would remind the member that we have access to a billion and a half customers through our very robust\n",
      "Mr. Randy Hoback: A billion and a half customers is fine if you have a functioning WTO, but if you don't have a functioning WTO, then a billion and a half customers may not be fully accessible to our suppliers, manufacturers and agriculture producers. Can the minister confirm that she's in discussions with the U.S. in joining this economic prosperity group?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Mr. Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that nothing is more important than standing up and helping create markets for our Canadian businesses and to help our small businesses get more export-ready so that they can grow into the international marketplace. This is work that we've committed to do, and we will keep working on it, particularly\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Hoback.\nMr. Randy Hoback: Yesterday Saskatchewan presented a budget. Not only did they present the budget, but they'll also actually debate the budget and pass the budget in Parliament. There's full accountability. Why won't this government do the same?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): Mr. Chair, the House is sitting in this hybrid format so that people can participate in the House on the screens. I'm sure my colleague is happy to see that his own colleagues are able to ask questions and participate.\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Williamson.\n",
      "Mr. John Williamson (New Brunswick Southwest, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will say that this is no substitute for Parliament, but I appreciate the opportunity. New Brunswick families and businesses are rapidly making adjustments to manage and live with the coronavirus pandemic. Businesses here are opening and services are being offered. Families are preparing for summer and even planning ahead for a new school year in September. We have a lot of work ahead of us. One notable absence is Service Canada. When does the government plan on opening its service counters to assist Canadians again?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development): Mr. Chair, our government is committed to ensuring that Canadians continue to have access to the benefits that they rely on through Service Canada. We have redeployed over 3,000 additional staff to ensure that Canadians continue to have access to their benefits. We've established a 1,500-agent call centre to make sure that people can get access to the phone lines to get the help they need.\n",
      "Mr. John Williamson: Service Canada is about more than providing COVID-19 information and benefits. Provincial governments are working hard to adjust to Canada's new normal by opening up businesses and front-line government services. When will we see Service Canada play its role and open its service counters in our communities?\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Mr. Chair, we're currently working with our world-class public health experts to determine how best to reopen the Service Canada network for the public. Make no mistake: Our Service Canada employees have gone above and beyond to ensure that Canadians continue to have access to the services that they rely on and the benefits that they need.\n",
      "Mr. John Williamson: Please don't hide behind health experts when the Prime Minister is appearing in the middle of large protests, yet is afraid to bring back the Parliament of Canada to do its business. In fact, the New Brunswick legislature is open for regular business. Bills are being studied, opposition input is being heard and MLAs are voting on legislation, not rubber-stamping government bills. By comparison, our Parliament is stuck in pretending it cannot function like other law-making assemblies. Canadians are in the dark about our country's finances. When will the government table an economic update so taxpayers understand what was spent, what is owed by our kids and grandchildren, and what the government's fiscal footing looks like?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, nobody's hiding. Nobody's doing anything like that. The only reason my colleague is able to ask a question and I'm able to answer his question is that he's right there on the screen. We have this hybrid format that cares for MPs across the country, not only the ones sitting in the House.\nMr. John Williamson: This is no substitute for Parliament. I will ask my question again. When will the government table an economic update so that taxpayers understand what was spent, what is owed by our kids and grandchildren, and what the government's fiscal footing looks like in today's environment?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for his question. Canada's economy is still in a period of extraordinary uncertainty due to COVID-19. We have been open and transparent about the measures we have been providing to support families, businesses and workers. Even our health care\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Williamson.\nMr. John Williamson: Except you have not. The Auditor General is underfunded. We have no idea about the total of government spending. Again I will ask when the government will table an economic update so that we can have an understanding of what the government's fiscal footing looks like.\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, we have included biweekly reports to Parliament on the full cost and status of our economic response plan measures since the beginning. I have said, and I will continue to say, that when it is possible to provide a clear economic projection, we will provide an update.\nMr. John Williamson: What is the full cost to date of the government's COVID-19 relief measures, as the minister just claimed the government has provided to Parliament?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Mr. Chair, we have provided support for workers, and 2.5 million Canadians have been helped through the Canadian wage subsidy. We have provided businesses with some loans, and 669,000 businesses have applied for these loans. Even for the CERB, we have over eight million Canadians who have applied.\nThe Chair: We will now continue with Mr.Bergeron.\n",
      "Mr. Stphane Bergeron: Mr.Chair, as the leader of the Bloc Qubcois mentioned a few moments ago, the government promised $14billion to Quebec and the provinces, but in targeted transfers. That is very little compared to the considerable expenses incurred to deal with the current crisis. But Quebec and the provinces don't just want this money to be transferred unconditionally, they also want a real discussion on a permanent increase in health care transfers. PremierLegault was rightly concerned about the feds' interference into provincial jurisdictions. The federal government, which does not manage any hospitals or long-term care centres, must stop playing armchair quarterback and transfer the money to the only governments with jurisdiction over health, that is, Quebec and the provinces. Will it do so without delay and without nitpicking?\n",
      "The Honourable Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): Mr.Chair, we know that the Government of Quebec is working hard to ensure the safety of Quebeckers and we are here to support them. As part of this co-operation, we have developed health and safety recommendations for workplaces, we have purchased medical equipment for workers and we have supported the province in developing its reopening program. We are continuing this important partnership to ensure the safety of Quebeckers and all Canadians.\n",
      "Mr. Stphane Bergeron: The co-operation is so effective that the money is staying in the federal government's coffers. In fact, when the federal government wants to impose conditions, it always takes longer. We see it with housing, for which Quebec has not received a dime of the $1.4billion it is owed. We have also seen it with infrastructure funds, particularly for public transit, water systems and water treatment. The health crisis is now. The needs are now. The much needed reopening of our economy is now. Will the government finally transfer the money without messing around or quibbling?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: I am pleased to confirm to my colleague that there is no messing around, no quibbling, nothing of the kind. There is co-operation between two levels of government. It is natural to have discussions with all the provinces and with Quebec. I myself am taking part in some discussions and several of my colleagues are taking part in others. There is a clear willingness on the part of the federal government to co-operate with Quebec and all the provinces. That is what we are doing and that is perhaps what the Bloc Qubcois does not like. It likes bickering, but for the time being, there is none.\n",
      "Mr. Stphane Bergeron: We don't want to bicker, we want the money to be paid out. It is not complicated, for heaven's sake! We do not want a blank cheque. Right now, the money remains in the federal government's coffers. There is $1.4billion that should be paid to Quebec for social housing and is sitting in the federal government's coffers. We are waiting for money for water treatment and water systems, but it is sitting in the federal government's coffers. It's almost July. We are wasting precious months for construction. What is the government waiting for to pay out the money so that we can get our economy rolling?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: The federal government is a very active partner. We are discussing and working with Quebec on infrastructure projects. We are continuing our discussions and negotiations on the housing agreement. Nothing is at a standstill. We are discussing and co-operating for the well-being of all Quebeckers.\n",
      "Mr. Stphane Bergeron: MadamChair, things are definitely at a standstill, because the money is owed and has not been paid out. Months are going by while construction is not taking place. We need to reopen the economy. We need more flexibility in the gas tax program and Quebec's contribution to allow municipalities to undertake work on city halls, community centres and fire stations. We need the federal government to contribute to funding public transit operations, which have become a real financial drain because of the drop in ridership. What is the federal government waiting for to provide real help instead of just talking?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: When it comes to just talking, the Bloc Qubcois has a lot of experience, I admit. We, in the government, are working and co-operating. We are not waiting with our arms folded, we are discussing a series of issues with Quebec. We do more than discuss, we work and we co-operate. We are working on projects, not only in infrastructure, but in a number of other areas. Just think of the co-operation of our armed forces in the CHSLDs, for example. We are here for Quebeckers.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Your time has run out, Mr.Bergeron.  We'll go now to Ms. Khalid, from MississaugaErin Mills.\n",
      "Ms. Iqra Khalid (MississaugaErin Mills, Lib.): Madam Chair, I'll be splitting my time with the member for GlengarryPrescottRussell. During a consultation with the business community in Mississauga, the concerns of businesses, big and small, included the need for stable, affordable and safe child care. With the lack of such child care spaces, an economic recovery plan post-COVID cannot be effective until and unless we make sure that people are able to get back to work. I've heard from parents across Mississauga that they're being forced to stay home because of inadequate child care and that they have to choose between putting food on the table and keeping family safe. More and more employers are realizing that good employees are unable to contribute to their business growth because of this challenge. Now more than ever, we need to find long-term sustainable solutions for Canadians who face challenges with regard to child care. I ask our Minister of Families, Children and Social Development this: What is our strategy to tackle this ever-growing need for a national child care plan?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, I thank the honourable member for her question and for her important advocacy and work on this important issue. We understand that child care is important to our economic recovery and our social infrastructure. We know the pressure that COVID-19 has placed on families, especially parents. That is why we're committed to continuing to work with provinces and territories to renew our agreements on early learning and child care, and to provide, at the earliest opportunity, $400 million in support. In addition to that, the Prime Minister has already indicated that child care will be part of the $14-billion pledge to provinces and territories to assist them with respect to COVID-19 recovery efforts. Over the next decade, we will continue to invest $7.5 billion, and together we have achieved the goal of over 40,000 affordable child care spaces. We are also committed to continuing to create over 250,000 before-school and after-school child care spaces for kids under the age of 10. We will continue to work with our partners in the provinces and territories to ensure that Canadians can continue to have access to safe, quality and affordable child care.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member for GlengarryPrescottRussell has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Francis Drouin (GlengarryPrescottRussell, Lib.): MadamChair, small businesses play a fundamental role in the Canadian economy. In an article in LaPresse, the Minister of Economic Development warned us that the economic crisis caused by severe lockdown measures could have more serious consequences in small municipalities than in large cities. Based on discussions with the chambers of commerce in my riding, it is clear that federal government assistance will be essential for the reopening of the economy, specifically for the rural economy. In fact, I would like to acknowledge the work of the Prescott-Russell community development corporation , under the leadership of John Candie. After announcing almost $57million to help SMEs adopt e-commerce, how does the minister plan to help SMEs and the business community in our rural areas?\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly (Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages): MadamChair, I also thank my colleague from GlengarryPrescottRussell for his important question. Yes, our regions are important and the entrepreneurs in those regions are creative and daring. They take risks, but they are currently facing huge challenges. So we are here for them. We understand their anxiety and we want to help them. That is why we have decided to invest heavily in rural economic development. It is also why we have doubled the budget of CFDCs and Community Futures organizations across the country.  In southern Ontario we have reinvested over $260million in the regional economic development agency FedDev. In the great riding of GlengarryPrescottRussell, which I am particularly fond of and where there is a very good member of Parliament, there is an additional $1million for entrepreneurs in the region. We have been, we are and we will be at your side.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member for GlengarryPrescottRussell has 36seconds left.  No? Then we'll go to the honourable member for ElmwoodTranscona.\n",
      "Mr. Daniel Blaikie (ElmwoodTranscona, NDP): Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for Victoria. Madam Chair, Krystal is a community worker in Winnipeg. She has been working from home since late March, taking care of her child, who is out of school, and caring for her father, who is living with her and vulnerable to COVID-19. Her employer called her up recently and asked her to physically return to work or to take a leave. As a parent and a care provider to a vulnerable person, she's not comfortable with physically returning to work. Service Canada won't give Krystal a straight answer as to whether going on leave and collecting CERB would count as refusing a reasonable job offer. With Bill C-17 looming in the background, Krystal is worried about jail time and fines if she does right by her child and her father by applying for CERB. Can Krystal reasonably refuse to go back to work and collect CERB, or will she be considered a fraudster? That's my question for the minister that is specific to Krystal's case. As well, what is the minister doing to provide clear direction to Canadians and to Service Canada agents so that people can get a clear answer before making their decision about returning to work?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable member for his important question. We recognize that Canadian workers will face various different situations, including those who are ineligible for the Canada emergency support benefit. We'll continue to work with workers to make sure they're able to be supported throughout this pandemic. The fact of the matter is that every province has workplace health and safety regulations that must be supported. We understand that workers have the right not to work in unsafe situations. We also understand that many Canadians do want to go back to work; and in fact many have. We will make sure that we support Canadians throughout this recovery process.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member has 47 seconds left, and that includes the answer.\nMr. Daniel Blaikie: Madam Chair, that answer is really not good enough, because the problem here is that Krystal needs to know whether she can continue receiving CERB or not. That's a federal government decision, and she needs to know whether the federal government is going to accuse her of fraud and put her in jail or assess fines against her if she refuses to go back to work because she wants to take care of her child and her father. What is the minister's answer to that?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister has 20 seconds to respond.\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, I can assure the honourable member that if a Canadian has to take care of a loved one due to circumstances surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic, they are indeed eligible to receive the CERB and remain receiving that benefit.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP): As we deal with the global pandemic, we cannot lose sight of the ongoing climate emergency. Canada has missed every single climate target it set, and we need to break the cycle of empty promises. Canadians want their government to be accountable, and environmental groups such as Ecojustice, CAN-Rac, Environmental Defence and West Coast Environmental Law, as well as the government's own climate institute, are all calling for legally binding climate targets. When will the government put its climate targets into law with legally binding milestones so we never miss another target again?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains (MississaugaMalton, Lib.): Madam Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for her question. I totally agree with her when it comes to the environment. It is a priority not only for us as a government, but it should be a priority for all Canadians. That is why we have put measures in place to put a price on pollution through carbon pricing. That is why we have a comprehensive plan that also includes significant investments in clean technology, which will help reduce our carbon footprint. I am confident that these measures will enable us to not only meet but exceed our 2030 target and also allow us to achieve our net-zero 2050 target.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: That didn't answer my question. I asked when. Empty promises won't get us any closer to meeting our climate targets. Can the minister tell us when his government will introduce climate accountability laws?\nHon. Navdeep Bains: Madam Chair, I think the fundamental issue here is having a plan when it comes to the environment. I'm confident that the measures that we have takenputting a price on pollution, investing in clean technology, and other key measures to reduce our carbon footprint, including the investment in infrastructureunderpin a plan\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to the honourable member for Victoria.\n",
      "Ms. Laurel Collins: This government is not meeting its targets, but it is meeting with oil and gas lobbyists. The pandemic has made us reflect on our priorities. Are we going to choose a just recovery with good, sustainable jobs for Canadian workers, or are we going to keep subsidizing oil and gas companies to the tune of billions, subsidies that we know are ending up in the pockets of CEOs and shareholders?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will have a brief answer from the minister.\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Again, Madam Chair, this is the fundamental difference between us and the NDP. We fundamentally believe that the entire economy needs to work together, including the energy sector, to enable us to achieve those 2030 and 2050 targets. We are going to work together to support our workers, including in the energy sector, to reduce our carbon footprint.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Now we will go to the honourable member for SaskatoonGrasswood, Mr. Waugh.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair. When I was last here in May, I was on my way back to Saskatoon from Toronto, and there was actually someone on my flight who tested positive for COVID-19. I was never informed of it by the airline. I found out two weeks later. The report was in the news media. Why hasn't the government put rules in place requiring airlines to reach out to individuals like me who may have been exposed to COVID on their flights?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, it's hard to speculate on what happened from such a vague description of his experience, but I will say that we have every confidence in local public health, which is doing the hard and heavy lifting of contact tracing and working very closely with all kinds of different sectors, including airline sectors, to make sure that close contacts of people who have tested positive for COVID-19 are found, are traced and are isolated. I assume that the member took appropriate precautions on the flight and I hope that he continues to do so.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Chair, it was reported that the individual on my plane who had COVID was actually connecting in Toronto from an international flight. The Prime Minister announced last week that they would begin mandating temperature checks for those bound for Canada in July. Will international travellers be tested when they land in Canada, or will they be relying on the tests that take place in other countries?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, this is a very important question, because the protection and safety of all Canadiansin particular, Canadian travellersis a high priority for our government. We've been working very closely with the airlines. At the current time, we are putting temperature screening in place. That will initially be done primarily by the airlines that are in the best position to do it at this point in time. We are also now going to be including CATSA, the people who do the security screening, so that when people enter the airport, they will also be screened. We believe that is going to be the most effective measure to keep all travellers safe.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Chair, last week five of the largest professional sports leagues in North America put out a statement of support for my private member's bill, the safe and regulated sports betting act. Given the struggles that clubs and leagues are facing due to COVID-19, including having no fans at all in the stands for the foreseeable future, the legalization of sports betting would be a welcome opportunity not only to engage fans but to generate much-needed revenue. Will the government commit now to supporting the sports and gaming industries by supporting my private member's bill, Bill C-218?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, I've had the opportunity on many occasions to speak to members of Parliament and also to mayors and councillors and people living in border communities where there are casinos. They've raised this issue a number of times. We've listened very carefully to the concerns that have been expressed by them. I would like to advise the member that I look forward to the opportunity for a careful examination of his bill. We are at all times concerned about maintaining the integrity of the gaming industry within our community. That's the best way to protect Canadians. At the same time, we will examine his bill with all of the necessary attention to make sure it's given full consideration.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh: Madam Chair, it's the first time in history that we've had the five professional leagues in this country joining together for this bill. Newspapers rely, as we all know, on advertising for a significant portion of their revenue. This includes the usual flyers as well as in-paper ads. I've heard major concerns from a number of newspapers in this country about competition they're receiving today from Canada Post, which is offering massive free postage services. In fact, I have one of their ads here, which says that the first 6,000 pieces of postage are 100% free. If the government is genuine about wanting to ensure that newspapers and journals can succeed in this country, why are you allowing Canada Post to use its monopoly power to actually threaten local newspapers in this country?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage): Thank you, Madame Chair, and I thank the member opposite for his question. As you well know, a healthy news and media sector in Canada is a priority for our government, which is why we have put in place a number of measures before COVID-19 and during COVID-19, and we will continue to be there for them after this crisis has gone by.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before we go on, we will be taking a break to do a bit of a changeover. I also want to remind members to address their questions and comments to the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for BruceGreyOwen Sound, Mr. Ruff.\nMr. Alex Ruff (BruceGreyOwen Sound, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Mr. Blair stated yesterday here in the House that the AR-15 has been used in mass killings in Canada on many occasions. Mr. Blair, please provide just one specific instance in which an AR-15 was used in a mass killing in Canada.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I remind the member to address questions and comments to the chair. The honourable minister may respond.\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I think this is an excellent opportunity to point out to the member opposite how important it is to actually listen to what was said. If you go back and review that tape, and I would invite you to do so, you'll see that I said the AR-15 and other weapons like themreferring of course to military-style assault weaponshave been used in mass killings, and I actually cited a number of examples. Madam Chair, I think it would be very useful if the member's questions were based on facts.\n",
      "Mr. Alex Ruff: I can remind Mr. Blair that I actually have watched the video a couple of times, and he specifically states that the AR-15 was used in mass killings in Canada, yet he has yet to provide one. My additional question is to Mr. Blair. Out of the recently banned firearms on May 1, how many have been or are still currently in use by the Canadian Armed Forces?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: That's an excellent question, Madam Chair, because it's very important to provide Canadians with clarity. We have prohibited these firearms for non-law enforcement and non-military use. The military uses weapons that were actually designed for soldiers to use in combat to shoot other soldiers. That's the appropriate use of such weapons, Madam Chair. They're not things to be played with in civilian society.\n",
      "Mr. Alex Ruff: As a soldier for 25 years, I'll remind Mr. Blair that none of the currently prohibited firearms would be used in the Canadian Armed Forces. I asked him a question on whether any of them is being or ever has been used in the Canadian Armed Forces. Are any of the recently banned firearms still in use, or have they ever been in use, in any military in the world?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, I think it's important to also recognize that the basic origin, the provenance of the weapons that we have prohibited, was in their original design. They were designed for military use for various military forces around the world. As I've said previously, they were designed for soldiers to use in combat to kill other soldiers. They're very efficient in their design for killing people. They have no purpose in Canadian society.\n",
      "Mr. Alex Ruff: As someone who has used many military-style firearms and who is actually involved in helping define what we purchase in the military, I would use none of the ones that are currently prohibited. I have a question, Chair, for Minister MacAulay. Can he please confirm whether Veterans Affairs has a plan to address the claims backlog, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs): Madam Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question, and yes, we've indicated that it's a major priority. That's why I'm so pleased that the supplementary estimates contained just under $90 million to address hiring more staff, improving the process and making sure that we attack the backlog in an appropriate manner.\nMr. Alex Ruff: Madame Chair, does that plan exist in written form?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Well, Madam Chair, I can assure you that it's in the supplementary estimates, and of course, this money is\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We'll go back to Mr. Ruff.\nMr. Alex Ruff: The question is about the plan, not how much money has been allocated. I am asking for the written plan on how to address the backlog.\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Madam Chair, I can tell my honourable colleague that the money is in the supplementary estimates, and with the money we're able to attack this problem in an appropriate manner, and that's what is important for our veterans.\n",
      "Mr. Alex Ruff: The deputy minister committed on March 10 that a written plan would be provided to the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs within a month and made public. Did the deputy minister or the department provide the minister that plan within a month?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Madame Chair, I'm sure my honourable colleague wants an appropriate plan and he would be fully aware this just under $90 million would make a big difference in the plan to attack the backlog. We\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We'll go back to Mr. Ruff.\n",
      "Mr. Alex Ruff: Thank you, Chair. Therefore, my question is, if the deputy minister in the department provided him with an appropriate plan or a written plan, why is he questioning how appropriate that plan is? I have complete confidence in the deputy minister's ability to produce a written plan.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister may give a brief answer, please.\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure my honourable colleague that with the appropriate funding, we will address the backlog in Veterans Affairs.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go now to the honourable member for Parry SoundMuskoka, Mr. Aitchison.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Aitchison: Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is about summer camps again. Three weeks ago, I asked this government if the finance minister would meet with the beleaguered summer camp sector. Summer camps, which are a social and economic mainstay in Parry SoundMuskoka and all of northern Ontario, have been crippled by the global pandemic. It's costing millions of jobs, and some camps are actually in danger of folding. Aside from a brief follow-up conversation over the phone with the junior minister, there has still been no action from this government. When will the Minister of Finance meet with summer camps to find a solution?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, I recognize the honourable member's important question and his focus on summer camps. We recognize the importance of looking at that and paying attention to the needs of that community. We will continue to engage with them, as we have, to ensure and find ways in which we can get their feedback and find ways in which we can support them. That work is ongoing, and I assure the honourable member that our focus is on the kids and on ensuring that they have access to summer camps for this year.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Aitchison: I don't know why you need to find ways to get feedback. The summer camps association has given lots of feedback and my office has given lots of feedback, so I don't see what's confusing about this. However, I've become accustomed to not really getting answers to questions, so I will go to the next one. The Ontario government's regional reopening plan permits cruise boats to resume on Georgian Bay, yet the federal government is refusing to allow these vessels to operate until July 1. Therefore, small businesses such as the Island Queen cruiser in Parry Sound, which has only a very few precious weeks to operate in the first place, is losing yet another two weeks because of federal inaction. This not only hurts the cruise boat industry but also hurts tourism and small businesses all through our area. Will the Minister of Transport take a regional approach himself by lifting the federal ban on Georgian Bay, just like the Province of Ontario has done?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister may reply. Is there a response?\nHon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, there is. I apologize for the confusion. Let me respond, if I may, on behalf of the Minister of Transport. There have been a number of very important discussions with the provinces, in particular with the Province of Ontario, around provisions regarding pleasure craft. There are certain restrictions that will come to an end on June 30. We're working very closely with our provincial counterparts to address this issue, but we want to ensure that it will be done safely.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Aitchison: Madam Chair, I actually gave the minister a heads-up that I would be asking that question. He sent me an email today saying he was not going to be able to be in the House, and it's great of him to do that. He said that whoever was going to fill in for him would have an answer, but again, that was not really an answer. The next issue I would like to bring this government's attention to is the deplorable state of rural Internet service in Parry SoundMuskoka. Quite simply, there are too many gaps in service, and what is available is generally way too expensive. We have families trying to work and teach their kids from home on unreliable and outrageously expensive Internet service, and we have too many small businesses that either cannot access or afford reliable Internet services. Today Greg Rickford, the Ontario energy minister, and Laurie Scott, Ontario Minister of Infrastructure, announced $2.3 million for seven northern Ontario broadband projects. Minister, will when your government get serious and become a reliable partner for the Government of Ontario and the private sector to deliver this crucial modern-day infrastructure to rural Canadians?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I remind the member that he needs to address the questions and comments to the chair. The honourable minister may reply.\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef (Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Rural Economic Development): Madam Chair, in the best of times, life without access to high-speed Internet is hard. During a pandemic, the challenges are that much more pronounced. Our government's unprecedented investments are already connecting a million more Canadian households to this essential service, but until we achieve universal access our work is not done. We will work with our partners, including provinces across the country, to connect every Canadian household to high-quality Internet access that is affordable and reliable.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member has 30 seconds.\n",
      "Mr. Scott Aitchison: I think I can squeeze something in here, then. I'm wondering, then, Madam Chair, since the Province of Ontario has used the Northern Ontario Heritage Corporation Fund to make this announcement, what about using FedNor to make the same kind of announcement, and partner with the province?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister has a brief answer.\n",
      "Hon. Mlanie Joly: Obviously we believe in the importance of northern Ontario; that's why we nearly doubled the budget of FedNor. We will continue to invest in businesses and people all around Parry Sound, Muskoka and northern Ontario. If my colleague has specific projects in mind, please come and see me and let's have a conversation.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member for Montmagny-L'Islet-KamouraskaRivire-du-Loup, Mr.Gnreux, has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Bernard Gnreux (MontmagnyL'IsletKamouraskaRivire-du-Loup, CPC): Thank you, MadamChair. I will continue along the same lines as my colleague. During this pandemic, we are realizing the extent to which reliable high-speed Internet service is needed for Canada's economy. There are still places where telework is not possible today because of the lack of adequate coverage. However, since2015, the government has committed to addressing the situation through three new programs. Benot Pilotto, who is the mayor of Saint-Onsime-d'Ixworth, in my riding, wrote to me a few days ago. That is why I am asking you what concrete results the government plans to achieve for our rural areas by the end of the year.\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: At the best of times, life without high-speed Internet access is difficult. During a pandemic, the difficulties are even greater. Our government's unprecedented investments are already connecting an additional one million Canadian households to this essential service. However, until we achieve universal access, our job is not done. We are working\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr.Gnreux, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Bernard Gnreux: MadamChair, I am simply asking the minister to tell me when the mayor of Saint-Onsime-d'Ixworth will be able to tell his residents when the Internet will be available in his municipality. It is not complicated. What does the government plan to do so that rural municipalities across Canada can have access to the Internet as soon as possible? What is its plan?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: We are working with partners across the country to ensure that every Canadian household is connected to a high-quality, accessible and affordable high-speed Internet service.  Madam Chair, I assure my colleagues that we share the same goal, and we will work with all our partners across the country to ensure every Canadian household has access\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr.Gnreux, you have the floor.\nMr. Bernard Gnreux: MadamChair, I am still not getting a specific answer. According to the government's plan, when will rural Canadian businesses and households be connected?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I would ask the honourable minister to provide a brief answer.\nHon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, those plans are under way, and we will have more to share in the coming days.\nMr. Bernard Gnreux: It seems that the Minister of Rural Economic Development plans to announce a new plan this week. Can she tell us how this program will differ from the Connect to Innovate program, which is already in place? Can the minister tell us whether her program will solve the problem of the 25square kilometre hexagonal zones, which unfortunately make many projects ineligible for the CRTC's broadband fund?\n",
      "Hon. Maryam Monsef: Madam Chair, I'm pleased to share with my colleague that the model he's referring to, the hexagon model, is no more. Our maps are much more precise now to ensure that we do not leave Canadians behind.\n",
      "Mr. Bernard Gnreux: MadamChair, this year, the Canada summer jobs program is a real fiasco. I think all my colleagues will agree with me. On May13, 100jobs were announced in my riding; on May20, 16jobs were announced; on May27, 13jobs were announced; on June3, 12jobs were announced; and on June10, only one job was announced. As we speak, an amount of $100,000 is still to be confirmed in my riding. Can we have an announcement, once and for all? Let's stop the piecemeal announcements and finally confirm the remaining jobs today so that our organizations can have young people before the summer starts on the weekend.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: MadamChair, I thank the honourable member for his question. We recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program is playing in supporting employers and young workers in communities right across the country. Our government is working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic, and at the same time is supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We've introduced flexibilities into the program to ensure that more young workers have opportunities to get employed. The honourable member also has to understand that we're in the COVID-19 pandemic, and as such it will take some time for businesses to equip themselves to hire students.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for NanaimoLadysmith, Mr. Manly.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Thank you, Madam Chair. In the first five months of this year, 554 B.C. residents died from opioid overdoses. They were teachers, construction workers, business owners, family members, neighbours and friends. Addiction is a health and social issue, but criminalization creates stigma, so people hide their drug use and die alone. Access to a safe supply of drugs and safe injection sites saves lives and puts addicts in daily contact with people who can help them. Will this government end the war on drugs by decriminalizing them, providing a safe supply and reallocating resources from policing addicts to providing treatment for them?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I think it's really important we make sure that when we speak about people who use substances, we remove stigmatizing language like the word addict. We can stand together, as this government has, with people who use substances and their families to ensure a range of options for people who are struggling with addiction, who are using substances in a way that is harming their health and their communities. As you know, we have restored harm reduction to the Canadian drugs and substances strategy. We've made it easier for people to access safe supplies of substances. We've increased access to treatment and the variety of treatment through federal transfers to provinces and territories. Madam Chair, we're working with communities to make sure there are more community-based approaches to treating\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Manly.\nMr. Paul Manly: Madam Chair, the Geneva Convention considers both tear gas and pepper spray to be chemical weapons and prohibits their use in war, yet our police forces use these weapons on Canadian civilians. These weapons are indiscriminate and can affect peaceful protestors and innocent bystanders. Will the government prohibit the use of these weapons and require police to use de-escalation techniques to keep legal protests peaceful?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, the right to peaceful protest in this country is a constitutionally protected right. We want to ensure it's always respected. At the same time, Madam Chair, we recognize that the use of even less than lethal force can have significant impacts on people's safety. This is a highly regulated substance in Canada. It's prohibited for non-police use, and for the police it is and should be highly regulated. The RCMP have advised me they have not used tear gas in nine years. We'll continue to monitor it to ensure that peaceful protest is always respected.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Madam Chair, in 2012 the RCMP spent $14 million on 18 armoured personnel carriers. One's parked at the Nanaimo detachment. I can't imagine why we have weapons of war like this for policing civilians. Will the government rein in the RCMP budget and end wasteful spending on militarizing our civilian police forces?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, it's a very important tradition that our Canadian police are not militarized. At the same time, we've seen a number of tragedies when police have responded to situations in which people were armed with weapons designed for soldiers to kill soldiers, and they've been used to kill police officers. The militarization of our society, so strongly promoted by some, is the direct consequence of the militarization of the police. As we remove these weapons from our society and prohibit them, we'll make it safer for everyone and we can then move away from such a model of policing.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly: Madam Chair, the government spent $4.5 billion to buy an old, leaky pipeline. Since 1961, there have been 82 reported spills from the Trans Mountain pipeline. Over 1.5 million litres of crude oil has spilled into the surrounding environment. This weekend, the Trans Mountain pipeline leaked again, dumping 190,000 litres of oil. How much is this spill going to cost Canadian taxpayers to clean up? How much contingency funding has been budgeted to repair the environmental destruction from spills?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable colleague for his question. He full well knows that the acquisition that we made with regard to the TMX initiative is a reflection of the fact that we want this initiative to move forward in a sustainable manner and in a manner that protects the environment. I'll continue to work with my colleagues to endeavour to make sure that we have the appropriate processes in place to protect the environment and at the same time create good-quality, middle-class jobs for Canadians.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member for RosemontLa PetitePatrie, Mr.Boulerice, has the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (RosemontLa Petite-Patrie, NDP): Thank you, MadamChair. The Black Lives Matter movement is right to discuss systemic racism in our societies. In Montreal, the city and the police department have recognized this, and measures will be put in place. The Liberal government, once again, is all talk and no walk. Although it spends $10million a day, we see no attempt to reform or change the RCMP. If the Prime Minister really wants to act, why is he delaying the action plan in response to the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Let me assure this House and the member opposite that we're not dragging our feet. This is an important issue. Indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes through the criminal justice system. It's incumbent upon all of us who work within the criminal justice system to take the steps and actions necessary to produce more equitable outcomes. All police services, including the RCMP, must be committed to ensuring that the people they're sworn to serve and protect are always treated with dignity and respect.\n",
      "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice: MadamChair, why are the Liberals taking indigenous children to court to challenge the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruling in their favour?\nHon. Marc Miller (Minister of Indigenous Services): Madam Chair, as the honourable member knows full well, a number of cases are pending, and we are currently negotiating with the parties. We are making progress, and I would be delighted to tell the member and the House about it in response to a later question.\n",
      "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice: We've been asking questions about it for months, and as I see it, we should keep doing so. The Prime Minister's new pipeline, which taxpayers were forced to buy with their hard-earned money, has leaked. Some 190,000litres of oil spilled, and we can't even make the company pay for it because the Liberals bought the pipeline. Trans-Mountain, KeystoneXL and the resumption of gas exploration and development off the coast of Newfoundland and Labradorare these the projects the Liberals had in mind for their green recovery?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: I'd like to thank the honourable member for his question. Our priority was to protect the health and safety of Canadians throughout the pandemic, especially when it comes to the environment. That's why environmental and climate change laws aimed at protecting the environment, human health and conservation will remain in force.\nMr. Alexandre Boulerice: Across Quebec, the cultural community is going through a harrowing time. Unions, associations, artists and creators have all taken part in public demonstrations recently to condemn the lack of a specific plan for the living arts, performing arts and festival sector. What is the government waiting for?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: I'd like to thank the member for his question. However, I strongly disagree with him. We haven't waited to develop a plan for the arts and culture sector. We listened to the community and we tailored our supports, as they were announced. We have an emergency plan for the arts and culture sector. We were asked to adapt the CERB to take royalties into account, and we did. We were asked to extend the CERB, and we did. We are fully aware that the recovery will take longer in the arts and culture sector. We have been there, we are there and we will be there for the arts and culture sector.\n",
      "Mr. Alexandre Boulerice: Well, that wasn't at all what the artists and creators who were out demonstrating in the streets a few days ago thought. They were protesting on the weekend. The CERB extension announced by the government only brings us to September, but the cultural community is expecting the worst in the fall. What is the government's long-term plan to support creators and their entire teams?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault: I'm not so sure those who were protesting last week had issues with our government, but we'd certainly be happy to speak with them. As for a long-term plan, we are currently consulting arts and culture stakeholders to contemplate together how the government can help the sector in response to the ongoing crisis. We are working on finding solutions, but until we have long-term solutions, we have seen to it that our artists and organizations have access to funding until September.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable member for BeauportLimoilou, Mrs.Vignola, has the floor.\n",
      "Mrs. Julie Vignola (BeauportLimoilou, BQ): Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member for Montcalm. According to the latest news, Seaspan Shipyards will be spending an additional $1.5billion to build two ships. Why? Because the ships were ordered in 2011 and still haven't been delivered. Davie built the Asterix without going over budget because it delivered the ship on time. Davie is currently the top shipyard, representing 50% of Canada's shipbuilding capacity. Why isn't Davie being awarded its fair share of contracts?\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand (Minister of Public Services and Procurement): I'd like to thank the member for her question. Davie is certainly a strong and trusted partner that works very hard to help our government get results for Canadians. Building a new class of ships is highly complex, and it's not unusual for cost estimates to change throughout the procurement project. It's important to make sure additional funding is available for the joint support ships project to ensure the navy's vessels are delivered.\n",
      "Mrs. Julie Vignola: We are talking about $1.5billion, here. In the beginning, eight years ago, the project was supposed to cost $2.6billion. There can't be much missing when the cost overrun is double the initial estimate. Why haven't the ships been delivered yet? Why is Davie still not seen as a trusted partner?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Minister, please keep your answer brief.\n",
      "Hon. Anita Anand: Once again, I would point out that building a new class of ships is highly complex, and it's not unusual for the cost estimate to change for a procurement project as large as this one. I know that Davie works very hard, and we also believe it is an outstanding partner.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): It is now over to the honourable member for Montcalm, Mr.Thriault.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Thriault (Montcalm, BQ): Madam Chair, in Quebec, 12,000people have begun their training to work in residential and long-term care centres. They will be ready for duty in mid-September. In the meantime, we need the support of the army, which is helping us save lives. The dedication of the members of the armed forces is paramount, and I want to extend my heartfelt thanks. The government extended their mission until June26, which is only 10days away. What does the army have to do right now that is more important than helping our caregivers save lives?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Madam Chair, I'm glad my fellow member recognizes the fundamental role the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces have played and continue to play in residential and long-term care centres and many other areas in support of our seniors. We are in talks with the Quebec government. The discussions around providing continued assistance to Quebec are quite positive and productive. That assistance can take many forms, including the Red Cross. We will be there for our seniors, Madam Chair.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Thriault: We are short 12,000people, so if the Red Cross wants to help us, all the better. We'll take all the help we can get. Barely 800members of the military are still in Quebec. I repeat my question: What does the army have to do 10days from now that is more important if it's not to help caregivers save lives?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Madam Chair, all the members of the military are still in Quebec. They have done absolutely incredible work and are continuing to do so. The people at the Canadian Red Cross are well-trained paid workers who can perform the same work in partnership with the members of the armed forces, who can stay in Quebec as well. Right now, we are working with the Quebec government and discussing how we can keep the measure in place until September15.\n",
      "Mr. Luc Thriault: Madam Chair, our nurses and orderlies are exhausted. They're at the end of their ropes. Now is the time to thank them, not the time to turn our backs on them. It's not the time for dilly-dallying or discussions. It's the time to tell them that we will be there to help them until the end. I will repeat my question. What does the army have to do that is more important than helping caregivers save the lives of those who built Quebec?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The Leader of the Government in the House of Commons is asked to keep his answer brief.\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Madam Chair, the Government of Canada is there and will continue to be there to help the people who built Quebec. The Government of Canada will work with the Quebec government to make that happen.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for Red DeerMountain View, Mr. Dreeshen.\n",
      "Mr. Earl Dreeshen (Red DeerMountain View, CPC): Thank you so much. Madam Chair, on May 14 I asked the Minister of Agriculture when the Liberal government would put aside its usual campaign rhetoric and recognize the very detrimental impact the carbon tax is having on farmers across this country. Minister Bibeau proudly noted that according to their data, the average cost of the carbon tax per farm across Canada is $210 to $819. We know that these numbers are completely unfounded and are not based on any factual evidence. The fact is that the Liberal government's own Parliamentary Budget Officer has estimated that at $25 per tonne, the cost for an 855-acre crop farm in Alberta is well over $6,000. The office came up with that using the government's statistics from the 2016 agricultural census. Madam Chair, the evidence is right in front of the minister. When will this Liberal government come clean with Canadians and recognize the disastrous impact the carbon tax is having on Canada's critical agriculture and agri-food sector?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): Madam Chair, our pollution pricing policy is designed to grow a clean economy. To support this sector, we have put in place the following measures. Emissions from livestock and crop production are not priced. Farm fuels and fuels from cardlock facilities are exempt, and there is a partial rebate for propane and natural gas used in commercial greenhouses. Our government has been very open and transparent about our pollution pricing plan. We will do a review of our pollution pricing system in 2020, focused on competitiveness issues in trade-exposed industries such as agriculture. It is also important to remember that this is about tackling climate change and that 100% of the revenues stay in the province. We will continue to support our farmers and food processors as they provide an essential service across Canada.\n",
      "Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Madam Chair, Minister Bibeau keeps talking about wanting to protect Canadians' environment. Well, the truth is that Canada's farmers, ranchers and processors have for years demonstrated their ability to deliver meaningful reductions in emissions and to safeguard the environment through the adoption of new technologies, education and innovative management practices, but the government ignores these efforts. Will the minister at the very least admit to Canadians that Canadian farmers are unable to pass on the cost of the carbon tax to consumers and instead have to absorb those extra costs out of their own pockets?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Madam Chair, allow me to explain again our government's position on pollution pricing. The price and method were developed so we could build an increasingly clean economy. We put a number of measures in place to help the agriculture sector. Emissions from animal and plant production aren't taxed. Farm fuels and fuels delivered to off-farm points-of-sale are also\nMr. Earl Dreeshen: Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have another question.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): I am watching the time, Mr. Dreeshan. You have a couple more seconds.\n",
      "Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Thank you. Madam Chair, Minister Bibeau has repeatedly asked stakeholders to send her data about the impacts of the carbon tax on farmers, so this is exactly what they have been doing. The Atlantic Grains Council, the Grain Farmers of Ontario, Producteurs de grains du Qubec and the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association issued a joint statement at the beginning of this year in which they estimated that the cumulative indirect inflation of carbon tax on farm costs will be $14.50 an acre this year, with that cost escalating by more than double by 2022 to almost $30 an acre. These are huge numbers. Why does the Liberal government continue to ignore the facts presented to it and continue to misrepresent the truth to Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Madame Chair, I can assure you that we have paid close attention to all the information that has been provided to us and that our calculation was also based on this information provided by provinces and different stakeholders.  Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Thank you  Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: Our government has been very open and transparent about our pollution pricing plan. The department used data from stakeholders and provinces  Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Thank you very much, Madam Chair  Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau:as well as the 2019 agricultural tax data to estimate the average cost of pollution pricing associated with grain drying at up to 0.4% of overall operating costs. It is important to remember that we have put in place many special provisions  Mr. Earl Dreeshen: Madam Chair  Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau: like exempting farm fuel and providing other financial supports for farmers.\n"
    ],
    "length": 25676,
    "hardness": null,
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  },
  {
    "id": 75,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The team was coming close to finalizing the model for Aurora. They were still trying to make some improvements to improve their score. The team began with a discussion about how reverberation could be better accounted for. The professor thought that experimenting with different filters could help achieve a better signal-to-noise ratio. The new system for estimating silence probabilities that the team had added to the model was very effective, but it created a 220ms latency in the VAD. The team was not sure what kinds of constraints would be placed on latency eventually. They wanted to play it safe. The models, over all, were performing well, though the team intended to keep improving them. The team was also trying to figure out how to deal with different kinds of background noise. The meeting ended with a discussion of logistical issues.",
    "docs": [
      "PhD A: OK , we 're going .\nPhD C: Eight , eight ?\nPhD D: This is three .\nPhD C: Three .\nPhD D: Yep . Yep .\nProfessor B: Test . Hmm . Let 's see . Move it bit . Test ? Test ? OK , I guess it 's alright . So , let 's see . Yeah , Barry 's not here and Dave 's not here . Um , I can say about {disfmarker} just q just quickly to get through it , that Dave and I submitted this ASRU .\nPhD A: This is for ASRU .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . So . Um . Yeah , it 's {disfmarker} it 's interesting . I mean , basically we 're dealing with rever reverberation , and , um , when we deal with pure reverberation , the technique he 's using works really , really well . Uh , and when they had the reverberation here , uh , we 'll measure the signal - to - noise ratio and it 's , uh , about nine DB . So ,\nPhD D: Hmm .\nProfessor B: um ,\nPhD A: You mean , from the actual , uh , recordings ?\nProfessor B: a fair amount of {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: k\nPhD A: It 's nine DB ?\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Yeah . Um {disfmarker} And actually it brought up a question which may be relevant to the Aurora stuff too . Um , I know that when you figured out the filters that we 're using for the Mel scale , there was some experimentation that went on at {disfmarker} at , uh {disfmarker} at OGI . Um , but one of the differences that we found between the two systems that we were using , {comment} the {disfmarker} the Aurora HTK system baseline system {comment} and the system that we were {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the uh , other system we were using , the uh , the SRI system , was that the SRI system had maybe a , um , hundred hertz high - pass . And the , uh , Aurora HTK , it was like twenty .\n",
      "PhD D: Yep . S sixty - four .\nProfessor B: Uh .\nPhD D: S sixty - four .\nProfessor B: Sixty - four ? Uh .\nPhD D: Yeah , if you 're using the baseline .\nProfessor B: Is that the ba band center ?\nPhD D: No , the edge .\nProfessor B: The edge is really , uh , sixty - four ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: For some reason , uh , Dave thought it was twenty ,\nPhD D:  So the , uh , center would be somewhere around like hundred\nProfessor B: but .\n",
      "PhD D: and {disfmarker} hundred and {disfmarker} hundred {disfmarker} hundred and {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} it 's like {disfmarker} fi hundred hertz .\nProfessor B: But do you know , for instance , h how far down it would be at twenty hertz ? What the {disfmarker} how much rejection would there be at twenty hertz , let 's say ?\nPhD D: At twenty hertz .\nProfessor B: Yeah , any idea what the curve looks like ?\n",
      "PhD D: Twenty hertz frequency {disfmarker} Oh , it 's {disfmarker} it 's zero at twenty hertz , right ? The filter ?\nPhD C: Yea - actually , the left edge of the first filter is at sixty - four .\nPhD D: Sixt - s sixty - four .\nPhD C: So {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So anything less than sixty - four is zero .\nPhD C: Mmm .\nProfessor B: It 's actually set to zero ? What kind of filter is that ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Is this {disfmarker} oh , from the {disfmarker} from {disfmarker}\nPhD C: It {disfmarker} This is the filter bank in the frequency domain that starts at sixty - four .\nProfessor B: Oh , so you , uh {disfmarker} so you really set it to zero , the FFT ?\nPhD D: Yeah ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: yeah . So it 's {disfmarker} it 's a weight on the ball spectrum . Triangular weighting .\n",
      "Professor B: Right . OK . Um {disfmarker} OK . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's a little different than Dave thought , I think . But {disfmarker} but , um , still , it 's possible that we 're getting in some more noise . So I wonder , is it {disfmarker} @ @ Was there {disfmarker} their experimentation with , uh , say , throwing away that filter or something ? And , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh , throwing away the first ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Um , yeah , we {disfmarker} we 've tried including the full {disfmarker} full bank . Right ? From zero to four K .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And that 's always worse than using sixty - four hertz .\nProfessor B: Right , but the question is , whether sixty - four hertz is {disfmarker} is , uh , too , uh , low .\nPhD D: Yeah , I mean , make it a hundred or so ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: I t I think I 've tried a hundred and it was more or less the same , or slightly worse .\nProfessor B: On what test set ?\nPhD D: On the same , uh , SpeechDat - Car , Aurora .\nProfessor B: Um , it was on the SpeechDat - Car .\nPhD D: Yeah . So I tried a hundred to four K . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Um ,\nPhD D: So it was {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: and on {disfmarker} and on the , um , um , {vocalsound} TI - digits also ?\n",
      "PhD D: No , no , no . I think I just tried it on SpeechDat - Car .\nProfessor B: Mmm . That 'd be something to look at sometime because what , um , eh , he was looking at was performance in this room .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Would that be more like {disfmarker} Well , you 'd think that 'd be more like SpeechDat - Car , I guess , in terms of the noise . The SpeechDat - Car is more , uh , sort of roughly stationary , a lot of it . And {disfmarker} and TI - digits maybe is not so much as {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm . OK . Well , maybe it 's not a big deal . But , um {disfmarker} Anyway , that was just something we wondered about . But , um , uh , certainly a lot of the noise , uh , is , uh , below a hundred hertz . Uh , the signal - to - noise ratio , you know , looks a fair amount better if you {disfmarker} if you high - pass filter it from this room .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: But , um {disfmarker} but it 's still pretty noisy . Even {disfmarker} even for a hundred hertz up , it 's {disfmarker} it 's still fairly noisy . The signal - to - noise ratio is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is actually still pretty bad .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: So , um , I mean , the main {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: So that 's on th that 's on the f the far field ones though , right ? Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , that 's on the far field . Yeah , the near field 's pretty good .\nPhD A: So wha what is , uh {disfmarker} what 's causing that ?\nProfessor B: Well , we got a {disfmarker} a video projector in here , uh , and , uh {disfmarker} which we keep on during every {disfmarker} every session we record ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: which , you know , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} w we were aware of\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker} but we thought it wasn't a bad thing .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean , that 's a nice noise source . Uh , and there 's also the , uh {disfmarker} uh , air conditioning .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Which , uh , you know , is a pretty low frequency kind of thing .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh {disfmarker} So , those are {disfmarker} those are major components , I think ,\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: uh , for the stationary kind of stuff .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , but , um , it , uh {disfmarker} I guess , I {disfmarker} maybe I said this last week too but it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it really became apparent to us that we need to {disfmarker} to take account of noise . And , uh , so I think when {disfmarker} when he gets done with his prelim study I think {vocalsound} one of the next things we 'd want to do is to take this , uh {disfmarker} uh , noise , uh , processing stuff and {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker} uh , synthesize some speech from it .\n",
      "PhD A: When are his prelims ?\nProfessor B: And then {disfmarker} Um , I think in about , um , a little less than two weeks .\nPhD A: Oh . Wow .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . So . Uh , it might even be sooner . Uh , let 's see , this is the sixteenth , seventeenth ? Yeah , I don't know if he 's before {disfmarker} It might even be in a week .\nPhD A: So , I\nProfessor B: A week ,\n",
      "PhD A: Huh . I {disfmarker} I guessed that they were gonna do it some time during the semester\nProfessor B: week and a half .\nPhD A: but they 'll do it any time , huh ?\nProfessor B: They seem to be {disfmarker} Well , the semester actually is starting up .\nPhD A: Is it already ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , the semester 's late {disfmarker} late August they start here .\nPhD A: Yikes .\nProfessor B: So they do it right at the beginning of the semester .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . So , uh {disfmarker} Yep . I mean , that {disfmarker} that was sort of one {disfmarker} I mean , the overall results seemed to be first place in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the case of either , um , artificial reverberation or a modest sized training set . Uh , either way , uh , i uh , it helped a lot . And {disfmarker} But if you had a {disfmarker} a really big training set , a recognizer , uh , system that was capable of taking advantage of a really large training set {disfmarker} I thought that {disfmarker} One thing with the HTK is that is has the {disfmarker} as we 're using {disfmarker} the configuration we 're using is w s is {disfmarker} being bound by the terms of Aurora , we have all those parameters just set as they are . So even if we had a hundred times as much data , we wouldn't go out to , you know , ten or t or a hundred times as many Gaussians or anything . So , um , it 's kind of hard to take advantage of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of big chunks of data . Uh , whereas the other one does sort of expand as you have more training data .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Mmm , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: It does it automatically , actually . And so , um , uh , that one really benefited from the larger set . And it was also a diverse set with different noises and so forth . Uh , so , um , that , uh {disfmarker} that seemed to be {disfmarker} So , if you have that {disfmarker} that better recognizer that can {disfmarker} that can build up more parameters , and if you , um , have the natural room , which in this case has a p a pretty bad signal - to - noise ratio , then in that case , um , the right thing to do is just do {disfmarker} u use speaker adaptation . And {disfmarker} and not bother with {disfmarker} with this acoustic , uh , processing . But I think that that would not be true if we did some explicit noise - processing as well as , uh , the convolutional kind of things we were doing .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So . That 's sort of what we found .\nPhD D: Hmm .\nPhD A: I , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , started working on the uh {disfmarker} Mississippi State recognizer . So , I got in touch with Joe and {disfmarker} and , uh , from your email and things like that .\nPhD D: Oh , OK .\nPhD A: And , uh , they added me to the list {disfmarker} uh , the mailing list .\nPhD D: OK , great .\n",
      "PhD A: And he gave me all of the pointers and everything that I needed . And so I downloaded the , um {disfmarker} There were two things , uh , that they had to download . One was the , uh , I guess the software . And another wad {disfmarker} was a , um , sort of like a sample {disfmarker} a sample run . So I downloaded the software and compiled all of that . And it compiled fine .\nPhD D: Eight .\nPhD A: No problems .\nPhD D: Oh , eh , great .\n",
      "PhD A: And , um , I grabbed the sample stuff but I haven't , uh , compiled it .\nPhD D: That sample was released only yesterday or the day before , right ?\nPhD A: No {disfmarker} Well , I haven't grabbed that one yet . So there 's two .\nPhD D: Oh , there is another short sample set {disfmarker}\nPhD A: There was another short one , yeah .\nPhD D: o o sample .\nPhD A: And so I haven't grabbed the latest one that he just , uh , put out yet .\n",
      "PhD D: OK . Oh , OK . F Yeah , OK .\nPhD A: So . Um , but , the software seemed to compile fine and everything , so . And , um , So .\nProfessor B: Is there any word yet about the issues about , um , adjustments for different feature sets or anything ?\nPhD A: No , I {disfmarker} I d You asked me to write to him and I think I forgot to ask him about that . Or if I did ask him , he didn't reply .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: I {disfmarker} I don't remember yet . Uh , I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll d I 'll double check that and ask him again .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah , it 's like that {disfmarker} that could r turn out to be an important issue for us .\nPhD D: Hmm . Mmm .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Cuz they have it {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Maybe I 'll send it to the list . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Cuz they have , uh , already frozen those in i insertion penalties and all those stuff is what {disfmarker} I feel . Because they have this document explaining the recognizer .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: And they have these tables with , uh , various language model weights , insertion penalties .\nPhD A: OK , I haven't seen that one yet .\nPhD D: u\nPhD A: So .\nPhD D: Uh , it 's th it 's there on that web .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: And , uh , on that , I mean , they have run some experiments using various insertion penalties and all those {disfmarker}\nPhD A: And so they 've picked {disfmarker} the values .\nPhD D: Yeah , I think they pi p\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nPhD D: yeah , they picked the values from {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: For r w what test set ?\nPhD D: Uh , p the one that they have reported is a NIST evaluation , Wall Street Journal .\n",
      "Professor B: But that has nothing to do with what we 're testing on , right ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: You know . No . So they 're , like {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} So they are actually trying to , uh , fix that {disfmarker} those values using the clean , uh , training part of the Wall Street Journal . Which is {disfmarker} I mean , the Aurora . Aurora has a clean subset .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: I mean , they want to train it and then this {disfmarker} they 're going to run some evaluations .\n",
      "Professor B: So they 're set they 're setting it based on that ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK . So now , we may come back to the situation where we may be looking for a modification of the features to account for the fact that we can't modify these parameters .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But , um ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: uh {disfmarker} but it 's still worth , I think , just {disfmarker} since {disfmarker} you know , just chatting with Joe about the issue .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , OK . Do you think that 's something I should just send to him\nProfessor B: Um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: or do you think I should send it to this {disfmarker} there 's an {disfmarker} a m a mailing list .\nProfessor B: Well , it 's not a secret . I mean , we 're , you know , certainly willing to talk about it with everybody , but I think {disfmarker} I think that , um {disfmarker} um , it 's probably best to start talking with him just to {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh @ @ {comment} you know , it 's a dialogue between two of you about what {disfmarker} you know , what does he think about this and what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} what could be done about it .\nPhD A: Yeah . OK .\nProfessor B: Um , if you get ten people in {disfmarker} involved in it there 'll be a lot of perspectives based on , you know , how {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: you know .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh {disfmarker} But , I mean , I think it all should come up eventually ,\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: but if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if there is any , uh , uh , way to move in {disfmarker} a way that would {disfmarker} that would , you know , be more open to different kinds of features . But if {disfmarker} if , uh {disfmarker} if there isn't , and it 's just kind of shut down and {disfmarker} and then also there 's probably not worthwhile bringing it into a larger forum where {disfmarker} where political issues will come in .\nPhD A: Yeah . OK .\n",
      "PhD D: Oh . So this is now {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's compiled under Solaris ?\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah , OK .\nPhD A: Yep .\nPhD D: Because he {disfmarker} there was some mail r saying that it 's {disfmarker} may not be stable for Linux and all those .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah , i that was a particular version .\nPhD D: SUSI\nPhD A: Yeah , SUSI or whatever it was\nPhD D: yeah . Yeah , yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: but we don't have that .\nPhD D: Yeah , OK .\nPhD A: So . Should be OK .\nPhD D: OK , that 's fine .\nPhD A: Yeah , it compiled fine actually .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: No {disfmarker} no errors . Nothing . So .\nProfessor B: Uh , this is slightly off topic\nPhD D: That 's good .\n",
      "Professor B: but , uh , I noticed , just glancing at the , uh , Hopkins workshop , uh , web site that , uh , um {disfmarker} one of the thing I don't know {disfmarker} Well , we 'll see how much they accomplish , but one of the things that they were trying to do in the graphical models thing was to put together a {disfmarker} a , uh , tool kit for doing , uh r um , arbitrary graphical models for , uh , speech recognition .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker} And Jeff , uh {disfmarker} the two Jeffs were\n",
      "PhD A: Who 's the second Jeff ?\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker} Oh , uh , do you know Geoff Zweig ?\nPhD A: No .\nProfessor B: Oh . Uh , he {disfmarker} he , uh {disfmarker} he was here for a couple years\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: and he , uh {disfmarker} got his PHD . He {disfmarker} And he 's , uh , been at IBM for the last couple years .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD A: Wow . That would be neat .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , so he did {disfmarker} he did his PHD on dynamic Bayes - nets , uh , for {disfmarker} for speech recognition . He had some continuity built into the model , presumably to handle some , um , inertia in the {disfmarker} in the production system , and , um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: Um , I 've been playing with , first , the , um , VAD . Um , {vocalsound} so it 's exactly the same approach , but the features that the VAD neural network use are , uh , MFCC after noise compensation . Oh , I think I have the results .\nProfessor B: What was it using before ?\nPhD C: Before it was just P L\nPhD D: \nPhD C: So .\nPhD D: Yeah , it was actually {disfmarker} No . Not {disfmarker} I mean , it was just the noisy features I guess .\nPhD C: Yeah ,\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , yeah , yeah ,\nPhD C: noisy {disfmarker} noisy features .\nPhD D: not compensated .\nPhD C: Um {disfmarker} This is what we get after {disfmarker} This {disfmarker} So , actually , we , yeah , here the features are noise compensated and there is also the LDA filter . Um , and then it 's a pretty small neural network which use , um , {vocalsound} nine frames of {disfmarker} of six features from C - zero to C - fives , plus the first derivatives . And it has one hundred hidden units .\n",
      "PhD A: Is that nine frames u s uh , centered around the current frame ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: S so , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm sorry , there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's how many {disfmarker} how many inputs ?\nPhD C: So it 's twelve times nine .\nProfessor B: Twelve times nine inputs , and a hundred , uh , hidden .\nPhD C: Hidden and\nPhD D: Two outputs .\nPhD C: two outputs .\n",
      "Professor B: Two outputs . OK . So I guess about eleven thousand parameters , which {disfmarker} actually shouldn't be a problem , even in {disfmarker} in small phones . Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} s so what is different between this and {disfmarker} and what you {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: It should be OK . So the previous syst It 's based on the system that has a fifty - three point sixty - six percent improvement . It 's the same system . The only thing that changed is the n a p eh {disfmarker} a es the estimation of the silence probabilities .\nPhD A: Ah . OK .\nPhD C: Which now is based on , uh , cleaned features .\nProfessor B: And , it 's a l it 's a lot better .\nPhD A: Wow .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: That 's great .\n",
      "PhD C: Um {disfmarker} So it 's {disfmarker} it 's not bad , but the problem is still that the latency is too large .\nProfessor B: What 's the latency ?\nPhD C: Because {disfmarker} um {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the latency of the VAD is two hundred and twenty milliseconds . And , uh , the VAD is used uh , i for on - line normalization , and it 's used before the delta computation . So if you add these components it goes t to a hundred and seventy , right ?\n",
      "Professor B: I {disfmarker} I 'm confused . You started off with two - twenty and you ended up with one - seventy ?\nPhD C: With two an two hundred and seventy .\nProfessor B: Two - seventy .\nPhD C: If {disfmarker} Yeah , if you add the c delta comp delta computation\nProfessor B: Oh .\nPhD C: which is done afterwards . Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So it 's two - twenty . I the is this {disfmarker} are these twenty - millisecond frames ? Is that why ? Is it after downsampling ? or {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: The two - twenty is one hundred milliseconds for the um {disfmarker} No , it 's forty milliseconds for t for the , uh , uh , cleaning of the speech . Um {disfmarker} then there is , um , the neural network which use nine frames . So it adds forty milliseconds .\nProfessor B: a OK .\nPhD C: Um , after that , um , you have the um , filtering of the silence probabilities . Which is a million filter it , and it creates a one hundred milliseconds delay . So , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: \nPhD D: Plus there is a delta at the input .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah , and there is the delta at the input which is ,\nProfessor B: One hundred milliseconds for smoothing .\nPhD C: um {disfmarker} So it 's {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh , median .\nPhD C: \nPhD D: It 's like forty plus {disfmarker} forty {disfmarker} plus {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And then forty {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Mmm . Forty {disfmarker} This forty plus twenty , plus one hundred .\nProfessor B: forty p \nPhD C: Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: So it 's two hundred actually .\nPhD C: Yeah , there are twenty that comes from {disfmarker} There is ten that comes from the LDA filters also . Right ?\nPhD D: Oh , OK .\nPhD C: Uh , so it 's two hundred and ten , yeah .\nPhD D: If you are using {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Plus the frame ,\nPhD D: t If you are using three frames {disfmarker}\nPhD C: so it 's two - twenty .\n",
      "PhD D: If you are phrasing f {comment} using three frames , it is thirty here for delta .\nPhD C: Yeah , I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's five frames , but .\nPhD D: So five frames , that 's twenty . OK , so it 's who un {comment} two hundred and ten .\nProfessor B: Uh , p Wait a minute . It 's forty {disfmarker} {vocalsound} forty for the {disfmarker} for the cleaning of the speech ,\nPhD C: So . Forty cleaning .\n",
      "Professor B: forty for the I N {disfmarker} ANN , a hundred for the smoothing .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Well , but at ten {disfmarker} ,\nPhD C: Twenty for the delta .\nProfessor B: Twenty for delta .\nPhD D: At th {nonvocalsound} At the input . I mean , that 's at the input to the net .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Delta at input to net ?\nPhD D: And there i\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . So it 's like s five , six cepstrum plus delta at nine {disfmarker} nine frames of {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And then ten milliseconds for {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Fi - There 's an LDA filter .\nProfessor B: ten milliseconds for LDA filter , and t and ten {disfmarker} another ten milliseconds you said for the frame ?\n",
      "PhD C: For the frame I guess . I computed two - twenty {disfmarker} Yeah , well , it 's {disfmarker} I guess it 's for the fr {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: OK . And then there 's delta besides that ?\nPhD C: So this is the features that are used by our network and then afterwards , you have to compute the delta on the , uh , main feature stream ,\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD C: which is um , delta and double - deltas , which is fifty milliseconds .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . No , I mean , the {disfmarker} after the noise part , the forty {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the other hundred and eighty {disfmarker} Well , I mean , Wait a minute . Some of this is , uh {disfmarker} is , uh {disfmarker} is in parallel , isn't it ? I mean , the LDA {disfmarker} Oh , you have the LDA as part of the V D - uh , VAD ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD C: The VAD use , uh , LDA filtered features also .\n",
      "Professor B: Oh , it does ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Ah . So in that case there isn't too much in parallel . Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD C: No . There is , um , just downsampling , upsampling , and the LDA .\nProfessor B: Um , so the delta at the end is how much ?\nPhD C: It 's fifty .\nPhD D: It 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Fifty . Alright . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: But well , we could probably put the delta , um , {vocalsound} before on - line normalization . It should not that make a big difference ,\nPhD A: What if you used a smaller window for the delta ?\nPhD C: because {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Could that help a little bit ? I mean , I guess there 's a lot of things you could do to {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah ,\nProfessor B: So\nPhD C: but , nnn {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . So if you {disfmarker} if you put the delta before the , uh , ana on - line {disfmarker} If {disfmarker} Yeah {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: uh {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} then it could go in parallel .\nPhD C: Cuz i\nProfessor B: And then y then you don't have that additive {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah ,\nPhD D: Yep .\nPhD C: cuz the time constant of the on - line normalization is pretty long compared to the delta window ,\n",
      "Professor B: OK .\nPhD C: so . It should not make {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: OK . And you ought to be able to shove tw , uh {disfmarker} sh uh {disfmarker} pull off twenty milliseconds from somewhere else to get it under two hundred , right ? I mean {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Is two hundred the d\nProfessor B: The hundred milla\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: mill a hundred milliseconds for smoothing is sort of an arbitrary amount . It could be eighty and {disfmarker} and probably do @ @ {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah ,\n",
      "PhD A: i a hun\nPhD C: yeah .\nPhD A: uh {disfmarker} Wh - what 's the baseline you need to be under ? Two hundred ?\nProfessor B: Well , we don't know . They 're still arguing about it .\nPhD C: \nPhD A: Oh .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , if it 's two {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if it 's , uh {disfmarker} if it 's two - fifty , then we could keep the delta where it is if we shaved off twenty . If it 's two hundred , if we shaved off twenty , we could {disfmarker} we could , uh , meet it by moving the delta back .\nPhD A: So , how do you know that what you have is too much if they 're still deciding ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , we don't , but it 's just {disfmarker} I mean , the main thing is that since that we got burned last time , and {disfmarker} you know , by not worrying about it very much , we 're just staying conscious of it .\nPhD A: Uh - huh . Oh , OK , I see .\nProfessor B: And so , th I mean , if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if a week before we have to be done someone says , \" Well , you have to have fifty milliseconds less than you have now \" , it would be pretty frantic around here . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Ah , OK .\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But still , that 's {disfmarker} that 's a pretty big , uh , win . And it doesn't seem like you 're {disfmarker} in terms of your delay , you 're , uh , that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: He added a bit on , I guess , because before we were {disfmarker} we were {disfmarker} had {disfmarker} were able to have the noise , uh , stuff , uh , and the LVA be in parallel .\nPhD C: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And now he 's {disfmarker} he 's requiring it to be done first .\nPhD C: Well , but I think the main thing , maybe , is the cleaning of the speech , which takes forty milliseconds or so .\nProfessor B: Right . Well , so you say {disfmarker} let 's say ten milliseconds {disfmarker} seconds for the LDA .\nPhD C: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} the LDA is , well , pretty short right now .\nProfessor B: Well , ten . And then forty for the other .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , the LDA {disfmarker} LDA {disfmarker} we don't know , is , like {disfmarker} is it very crucial for the features , right ?\nPhD C: No . I just {disfmarker} This is the first try .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Right ,\nPhD C: I mean , I {disfmarker} maybe the LDA 's not very useful then .\nProfessor B: so you could start pulling back ,\nPhD D: S s h\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah ,\n",
      "Professor B: But I think you have {disfmarker}\nPhD D: l\nProfessor B: I mean , you have twenty for delta computation which y now you 're sort of doing twice , right ? But yo w were you doing that before ?\nPhD C: Mmm . Well , in the proposal , um , the input of the VAD network were just three frames , I think .\nPhD D: On the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . Just {disfmarker} Yeah , just the static , no delta .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD C: Uh , static features .\n",
      "Professor B: So , what you have now is fort uh , forty for the {disfmarker} the noise , twenty for the delta , and ten for the LDA . That 's seventy milliseconds of stuff which was formerly in parallel ,\nPhD C: \nProfessor B: right ? So I think ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: you know , that 's {disfmarker} that 's the difference as far as the timing , right ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , and you could experiment with cutting various pieces of these back a bit , but {disfmarker} I mean , we 're s we 're not {disfmarker} we 're not in terrible shape .\nPhD A: Yeah , that 's what it seems like to me . It 's pretty good .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's not like it 's adding up to four hundred milliseconds or something .\n",
      "PhD A: Where {disfmarker} where is this {disfmarker} where is this fifty - seven point O two in {disfmarker} in comparison to the last evaluation ?\nProfessor B: Well , it 's {disfmarker} I think it 's better than anything , uh , anybody got .\nPhD A: Oh , is that right ?\nPhD C: Yeah . The best was fifty - four point five .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Point s\nPhD A: Oh .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Uh\nPhD C: And our system was forty - nine , but with the neural network .\n",
      "PhD A: Wow . So this is almost ten percent .\nProfessor B: With the f with the neural net . Yeah , and r and {disfmarker}\nPhD C: It would\nPhD D: Yeah , so this is {disfmarker} this is like the first proposal . The proposal - one . It was forty - four , actually .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . And we still don't have the neural net in . So {disfmarker} so it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Wow .\n",
      "Professor B: You know . So it 's {disfmarker} We 're {disfmarker} we 're doing better .\nPhD A: This is {disfmarker} this is really good .\nProfessor B: I mean , we 're getting better recognition . I mean , I 'm sure other people working on this are not sitting still either , but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: but {disfmarker} but , uh {disfmarker} Uh , I mean , the important thing is that we learn how to do this better , and , you know . So . Um , Yeah . So , our , um {disfmarker} Yeah , you can see the kind of {disfmarker} kind of numbers that we 're having , say , on SpeechDat - Car which is a hard task , cuz it 's really , um {disfmarker} I think it 's just sort of {disfmarker} sort of reasonable numbers , starting to be . I mean , it 's still terri\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah , even for a well - matched case it 's sixty percent error rate reduction ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: which is {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Probably half . Good !\nPhD C: Um , Yeah . So actually , this is in between {vocalsound} what we had with the previous VAD and what Sunil did with an IDL VAD . Which gave sixty - two percent improvement , right ?\nPhD D: Yeah , it 's almost that .\nPhD C: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: It 's almost an average somewhere around {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: What was that ? Say that last part again ?\nPhD C: So , if you use , like , an IDL VAD , uh , for dropping the frames ,\nPhD D: o o Or the best we can get .\nPhD C: the best that we can get {disfmarker} i That means that we estimate the silence probability on the clean version of the utterances . Then you can go up to sixty - two percent error rate reduction , globally .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD C: Mmm {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD A: So that would be even {disfmarker} That wouldn't change this number down here to sixty - two ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So you {disfmarker} you were get\nPhD C: If you add a g good v very good VAD , that works as well as a VAD working on clean speech ,\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD C: then you wou you would go {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So that 's sort of the best you could hope for .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: Probably . Yeah . So fi si fifty - three is what you were getting with the old VAD .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And , uh {disfmarker} and sixty - two with the {disfmarker} the , you know , quote , unquote , cheating VAD . And fifty - seven is what you got with the real VAD .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: That 's great .\n",
      "PhD C: Uh , yeah , the next thing is , I started to play {disfmarker} Well , I don't want to worry too much about the delay , no . Maybe it 's better to wait\nProfessor B: OK .\nPhD C: for the decision\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: from the committee . Uh , but I started to play with the , um , {vocalsound} {vocalsound} uh , tandem neural network . Mmm I just did the configuration that 's very similar to what we did for the February proposal . And {disfmarker} Um . So . There is a f a first feature stream that use uh straight MFCC features .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Well , these features actually . And the other stream is the output of a neural network , using as input , also , these , um , cleaned MFCC . Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Those are th those are th what is going into the tandem net ?\nPhD C: I don't have the comp Mmm ?\nPhD A: Those two ?\nPhD C: So there is just this feature stream , {comment} the fifteen MFCC plus delta and double - delta .\nProfessor B: No .\nPhD A: Yeah ?\nPhD C: Um , so it 's {disfmarker} makes forty - five features {comment} that are used as input to the HTK . And then , there is {disfmarker} there are more inputs that comes from the tandem MLP .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , oh . OK . I see .\nProfessor B: Yeah , h he likes to use them both ,\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: cuz then it has one part that 's discriminative ,\nPhD C: Yeah . Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: one part that 's not .\nPhD A: Right . OK .\n",
      "PhD C: So , um , uh , yeah . Right now it seems that {disfmarker} i I just tested on SpeechDat - Car while the experiment are running on your {disfmarker} on TI - digits . Well , it improves on the well - matched and the mismatched conditions , but it get worse on the highly mismatched . Um ,\nPhD A: Compared to these numbers ?\nPhD C: Compared to these numbers , yeah . Um ,\nProfessor B: y\n",
      "PhD C: like , on the well - match and medium mismatch , the gain is around five percent relative , but it goes down a lot more , like fifteen percent on the HM case .\nProfessor B: You 're just using the full ninety features ?\nPhD C:  The {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Y you have ninety features ?\nPhD C: i I have , um {disfmarker} From the networks , it 's twenty - eight . So {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And from the other side it 's forty - five .\nPhD C: So , d i It 's forty - five .\n",
      "Professor B: So it 's {disfmarker} you have seventy - three features ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and you 're just feeding them like that .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: There isn't any KLT or anything ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . There 's a KLT after the neural network , as {disfmarker} as before .\nPhD A: That 's how you get down to twenty - eight ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Why twenty - eight ?\nPhD C: I don't know .\nPhD A: Oh .\n",
      "PhD C: Uh . It 's {disfmarker} i i i It 's because it 's what we did for the first proposal . We tested , uh , trying to go down\nPhD A: Ah .\nProfessor B: It 's a multiple of seven .\nPhD C: and Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: So {disfmarker} Um .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: I wanted to do something very similar to the proposal as a first {disfmarker} first try .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . That makes sense .\nPhD C: But we have to {disfmarker} for sure , we have to go down , because the limit is now sixty features .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: So , uh , we have to find a way to decrease the number of features . Um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: So , it seems funny that {disfmarker} I don't know , maybe I don't u quite understand everything , {comment} but that adding features {disfmarker} I guess {disfmarker} I guess if you 're keeping the back - end fixed . Maybe that 's it . Because it seems like just adding information shouldn't give worse results . But I guess if you 're keeping the number of Gaussians fixed in the recognizer , then {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , yeah .\nPhD C: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But , I mean , just in general , adding information {disfmarker} Suppose the information you added , well , was a really terrible feature and all it brought in was noise .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Right ? So {disfmarker} so , um {disfmarker} Or {disfmarker} or suppose it wasn't completely terrible , but it was completely equivalent to another one feature that you had , except it was noisier .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Right ? In that case you wouldn't necessarily expect it to be better at all .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , yeah , I wasn't necessarily saying it should be better . I 'm just surprised that you 're getting fifteen percent relative worse on the wel\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\nPhD C: But it 's worse .\nProfessor B: On the highly mismatched condition .\nPhD A: On the highly mismatch .\nPhD C: Yeah , I {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: So , \" highly mismatched condition \" means that in fact your training is a bad estimate of your test .\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: So having {disfmarker} having , uh , a g a l a greater number of features , if they aren't maybe the right features that you use , certainly can e can easily , uh , make things worse . I mean , you 're right . If you have {disfmarker} if you have , uh , lots and lots of data , and you have {disfmarker} and your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your training is representative of your test , then getting more sources of information should just help . But {disfmarker} but it 's {disfmarker} It doesn't necessarily work that way .\n",
      "PhD A: Huh .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So I wonder , um , Well , what 's your {disfmarker} what 's your thought about what to do next with it ?\nPhD C: Um , I don't know . I 'm surprised , because I expected the neural net to help more when there is more mismatch , as it was the case for the {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So , was the training set same as the p the February proposal ? OK .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah , it 's the same training set , so it 's TIMIT with the TI - digits ' , uh , noises , uh , added .\nPhD D: \nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , we might {disfmarker} uh , we might have to experiment with , uh better training sets . Again . But ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I {disfmarker} The other thing is , I mean , before you found that was the best configuration , but you might have to retest those things now that we have different {disfmarker} The rest of it is different , right ? So , um , uh , For instance , what 's the effect of just putting the neural net on without the o other {disfmarker} other path ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean , you know what the straight features do .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: That gives you this . You know what it does in combination .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: You don't necessarily know what {disfmarker}\nPhD A: What if you did the {disfmarker} Would it make sense to do the KLT on the full set of combined features ? Instead of just on the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . I g I guess . Um . The reason I did it this ways is that in February , it {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we tested different things like that , so , having two KLT , having just a KLT for a network , or having a global KLT .\nPhD A: Oh , I see .\n",
      "PhD C: And {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So you tried the global KLT before\nPhD C: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD A: and it didn't really {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . And , uh , th Yeah .\nPhD A: I see .\nPhD C: The differences between these configurations were not huge , but {disfmarker} it was marginally better with this configuration .\nPhD A: Uh - huh . Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: But , yeah , that 's obviously another thing to try ,\nPhD C: Um .\n",
      "Professor B: since things are {disfmarker} things are different .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And I guess if the {disfmarker} These are all {disfmarker} so all of these seventy - three features are going into , um , the , uh {disfmarker} the HMM .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And is {disfmarker} are {disfmarker} i i are {disfmarker} are any deltas being computed of tha of them ?\nPhD C: Of the straight features , yeah .\nProfessor B: n Not of the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: So . But n th the , um , tandem features are u used as they are .\nProfessor B: Are not .\nPhD C: So , yeah , maybe we can add some context from these features also as {disfmarker} Dan did in {disfmarker} in his last work .\nProfessor B: Could . i Yeah , but the other thing I was thinking was , um {disfmarker} Uh , now I lost track of what I was thinking . But .\nPhD A: What is the {disfmarker} You said there was a limit of sixty features or something ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: What 's the relation between that limit and the , um , forty - eight {disfmarker} uh , forty eight hundred bits per second ?\nProfessor B: Oh , I know what I was gonna say .\nPhD C: Um , not {disfmarker} no relation .\nProfessor B: No relation .\nPhD A: So I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't understand ,\nPhD C: The f the forty - eight hundred bits is for transmission of some features .\nPhD A: because i I mean , if you 're only using h\n",
      "PhD C: And generally , i it {disfmarker} s allows you to transmit like , fifteen , uh , cepstrum .\nProfessor B: The issue was that , um , this is supposed to be a standard that 's then gonna be fed to somebody 's recognizer somewhere which might be , you know , it {disfmarker} it might be a concern how many parameters are use {disfmarker} u used and so forth . And so , uh , they felt they wanted to set a limit . So they chose sixty . Some people wanted to use hundreds of parameters and {disfmarker} and that bothered some other people .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: u And so they just chose that . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think it 's kind of r arbitrary too . But {disfmarker} but that 's {disfmarker} that 's kind of what was chosen . I {disfmarker} I remembered what I was going to say . What I was going to say is that , um , maybe {disfmarker} {vocalsound} maybe with the noise removal , uh , these things are now more correlated . So you have two sets of things that are kind of uncorrelated , uh , within themselves , but they 're pretty correlated with one another .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And , um , they 're being fed into these , uh , variants , only Gaussians and so forth , and {disfmarker} and , uh ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: so maybe it would be a better idea now than it was before to , uh , have , uh , one KLT over everything , to de - correlate it .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah , I see .\nProfessor B: Maybe . You know .\nPhD D: What are the S N Rs in the training set , TIMIT ?\n",
      "PhD C: It 's , uh , ranging from zero to clean ? Yeah . From zero to clean .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So we found this {disfmarker} this , uh {disfmarker} this Macrophone data , and so forth , that we were using for these other experiments , to be pretty good .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So that 's {disfmarker} i after you explore these other alternatives , that might be another way to start looking , is {disfmarker} is just improving the training set .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , we were getting , uh , lots better recognition using that , than {disfmarker} Of course , you do have the problem that , um , u i {comment} we are not able to increase the number of Gaussians , uh , or anything to , uh , uh , to match anything . So we 're only improving the training of our feature set , but that 's still probably something .\nPhD A: So you 're saying , add the Macrophone data to the training of the neural net ? The tandem net ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , that 's the only place that we can train .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: We can't train the other stuff with anything other than the standard amount ,\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: so . Um , um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: What {disfmarker} what was it trained on again ? The one that you used ?\nPhD C: It 's TIMIT with noise .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: So , yeah , it 's rather a small {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: How big is the net , by the way ?\n",
      "PhD C: Um , Uh , it 's , uh , five hundred hidden units . And {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And again , you did experiments back then where you made it bigger and it {disfmarker} and that was {disfmarker} that was sort of the threshold point . Much less than that , it was worse ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: much more than that , it wasn't much better . Hmm .\nPhD C: Yeah . @ @ ?\n",
      "PhD D: So is it {disfmarker} is it though the performance , big relation in the high ma high mismatch has something to do with the , uh , cleaning up that you {disfmarker} that is done on the TIMIT after adding noise ?\nPhD C: \nPhD D: So {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} i All the noises are from the TI - digits ,\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: right ? So you {disfmarker} i\nPhD C: Um {disfmarker} They {disfmarker} k uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Well , it it 's like the high mismatch of the SpeechDat - Car after cleaning up , maybe having more noise than the {disfmarker} the training set of TIMIT after clean {disfmarker} s after you do the noise clean - up .\nPhD C: Mmm .\nPhD D: I mean , earlier you never had any compensation , you just trained it straight away .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So it had like all these different conditions of S N Rs , actually in their training set of neural net .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: But after cleaning up you have now a different set of S N Rs , right ?\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: For the training of the neural net .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} is it something to do with the mismatch that {disfmarker} that 's created after the cleaning up , like the high mismatch {disfmarker}\nPhD C: You mean the {disfmarker} the most noisy occurrences on SpeechDat - Car might be a lot more noisy than {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm . Of {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} I mean , the SNR after the noise compensation of the SpeechDat - Car .\nProfessor B: Oh , so {disfmarker} Right . So the training {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the neural net is being trained with noise compensated stuff .\nPhD C: Maybe .\nPhD D:  Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor B: Which makes sense ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: but , uh , you 're saying {disfmarker} Yeah , the noisier ones are still going to be , even after our noise compensation , are still gonna be pretty noisy .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , so now the after - noise compensation the neural net is seeing a different set of S N Rs than that was originally there in the training set . Of TIMIT . Because in the TIMIT it was zero to some clean .\nProfessor B: Right . Yes .\nPhD D: So the net saw all the SNR @ @ conditions .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Now after cleaning up it 's a different set of SNR .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: And that SNR may not be , like , com covering the whole set of S N Rs that you 're getting in the SpeechDat - Car .\nProfessor B: Right , but the SpeechDat - Car data that you 're seeing is also reduced in noise by the noise compensation .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , it is . But , I 'm saying , there could be some {disfmarker} some issues of {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Well , if the initial range of SNR is different , we {disfmarker} the problem was already there before . And {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Because {disfmarker} Mmm {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah , I mean , it depends on whether you believe that the noise compensation is equally reducing the noise on the test set and the training set .\nPhD C: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: On the test set , yeah . \n",
      "Professor B: Right ? I mean , you 're saying there 's a mismatch in noise that wasn't there before ,\nPhD D: Hmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but if they were both the same before , then if they were both reduic reduced equally , then , there would not be a mismatch .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So , I mean , this may be {disfmarker} Heaven forbid , this noise compensation process may be imperfect , but . Uh , so maybe it 's treating some things differently .\nPhD C: Yeah , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Well , I {disfmarker} I don't know . I {disfmarker} I just {disfmarker} that could be seen from the TI - digits , uh , testing condition because , um , the noises are from the TI - digits , right ? Noise {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nPhD D: So cleaning up the TI - digits and if the performance goes down in the TI - digits mismatch {disfmarker} high mismatch like this {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Clean training , yeah .\nPhD D: on a clean training , or zero DB testing .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah , we 'll {disfmarker} so we 'll see . Uh .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Maybe .\nPhD D: Then it 's something to do .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean , one of the things about {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean , the Macrophone data , um , I think , you know , it was recorded over many different telephones .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And , um , so , there 's lots of different kinds of acoustic conditions . I mean , it 's not artificially added noise or anything . So it 's not the same . I don't think there 's anybody recording over a car from a car , but {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's varied enough that if {disfmarker} if doing this adjustments , uh , and playing around with it doesn't , uh , make it better , the most {disfmarker} uh , it seems like the most obvious thing to do is to improve the training set . Um {disfmarker} I mean , what we were {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} the condition {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it gave us an enormous amount of improvement in what we were doing with Meeting Recorder digits , even though there , again , these m Macrophone digits were very , very different from , uh , what we were going on here . I mean , we weren't talking over a telephone here . But it was just {disfmarker} I think just having a {disfmarker} a nice variation in acoustic conditions was just a good thing .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yep .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nPhD C: Yeah , actually {vocalsound} to s eh , what I observed in the HM case is that the number of deletion dramatically increases . It {disfmarker} it doubles .\nProfessor B: Number of deletions .\nPhD C: When I added the num the neural network it doubles the number of deletions . Yeah , so I don't you know {vocalsound} how to interpret that , but , mmm {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Me either .\nPhD C: t\n",
      "PhD A: And {disfmarker} and did {disfmarker} an other numbers stay the same ? Insertion substitutions stay the same ?\nPhD C: They p stayed the same ,\nPhD A: Roughly ?\nPhD C: they {disfmarker} maybe they are a little bit uh , lower .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD C: They are a little bit better . Yeah . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Did they increase the number of deletions even for the cases that got better ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Say , for the {disfmarker} I mean , it {disfmarker}\nPhD C: No , it doesn't .\nProfessor B: So it 's only the highly mismatched ?\nPhD C: No .\nProfessor B: And it {disfmarker} Remind me again , the \" highly mismatched \" means that the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Clean training and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh , sorry ?\nPhD C: It 's clean training {disfmarker} Well , close microphone training and distant microphone , um , high speed , I think .\nProfessor B: Close mike training {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: Well {disfmarker} The most noisy cases are the distant microphone for testing .\nProfessor B: Right . So {disfmarker} Well , maybe the noise subtraction is subtracting off speech .\nPhD C: Separating . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Wh\nPhD C: But {disfmarker} Yeah . I mean , but without the neural network it 's {disfmarker} well , it 's better . It 's just when we add the neural networks .\nProfessor B: Yeah , right .\nPhD C: The feature are the same except that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , that 's right , that 's right . Um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Well that {disfmarker} that says that , you know , the , um {disfmarker} the models in {disfmarker} in , uh , the recognizer are really paying attention to the neural net features .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But , yeah , actually {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} the TIMIT noises {pause} are sort of a range of noises and they 're not so much the stationary driving kind of noises , right ? It 's {disfmarker} it 's pretty different . Isn't it ?\nPhD C: Uh , there is a car noise . So there are f just four noises . Um , uh , \" Car \" , I think , \" Babble \" ,\nPhD D: \" Babble . \"\nPhD C: \" Subway \" , right ? and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: \" Street \" or \" Airport \" or something .\nPhD C: and {disfmarker} \" Street \" isn't {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Or \" Train station \" .\nPhD C: \" Train station \" , yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: So {disfmarker} it 's mostly {disfmarker} Well , \" Car \" is stationary ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: \" Babble \" , it 's a stationary background plus some voices ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: some speech over it . And the other two are rather stationary also .\nProfessor B: Well , I {disfmarker} I think that if you run it {disfmarker} Actually , you {disfmarker} maybe you remember this . When you {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the old experiments when you ran with the neural net only , and didn't have this side path , um , uh , with the {disfmarker} the pure features as well , did it make things better to have the neural net ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Was it about the same ? Uh , w i\n",
      "PhD C: It was {disfmarker} b a little bit worse .\nProfessor B: Than {disfmarker} ?\nPhD C: Than just the features , yeah .\nProfessor B: So , until you put the second path in with the pure features , the neural net wasn't helping at all .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Well , that 's interesting .\nPhD C: It was helping , uh , if the features are b were bad ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: I mean . Just plain P L Ps or M F\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: C Cs . as soon as we added LDA on - line normalization , and {vocalsound} all these things , then {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: They were doing similar enough things . Well , I still think it would be k sort of interesting to see what would happen if you just had the neural net without the side thing .\nPhD C: Yeah ,\nProfessor B: And {disfmarker} and the thing I {disfmarker} I have in mind is , uh , maybe you 'll see that the results are not just a little bit worse .\nPhD C: mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Maybe that they 're a lot worse . You know ? And , um {disfmarker} But if on the ha other hand , uh , it 's , say , somewhere in between what you 're seeing now and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and , uh , what you 'd have with just the pure features , then maybe there is some problem of a {disfmarker} of a , uh , combination of these things , or correlation between them somehow .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: If it really is that the net is hurting you at the moment , then I think the issue is to focus on {disfmarker} on , uh , improving the {disfmarker} the net .\nPhD C: Yeah ,\nProfessor B: Um .\nPhD C: mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So what 's the overall effe I mean , you haven't done all the experiments but you said it was i somewhat better , say , five percent better , for the first two conditions , and fifteen percent worse for the other one ? But it 's {disfmarker} but of course that one 's weighted lower ,\n",
      "PhD C: Y yeah , oh . Yeah .\nProfessor B: so I wonder what the net effect is .\nPhD C: I d I {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} it was one or two percent . That 's not that bad , but it was l like two percent relative worse on SpeechDat - Car . I have to {disfmarker} to check that . Well , I have {disfmarker} I will .\n",
      "PhD D: Well , it will {disfmarker} overall it will be still better even if it is fifteen percent worse , because the fifteen percent worse is given like f w twenty - five {disfmarker} point two five eight .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . Hmm .\nProfessor B: Right . So the {disfmarker} so the worst it could be , if the others were exactly the same , is four ,\nPhD D: Is it like {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker} and , uh , in fact since the others are somewhat better {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , so it 's four . Is i So either it 'll get cancelled out , or you 'll get , like , almost the same .\nProfessor B: Uh .\nPhD C: Yeah , it was {disfmarker} it was slightly worse .\nPhD D: Slightly bad . Yeah .\nPhD C: Um ,\nProfessor B: Yeah , it should be pretty close to cancelled out .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: You know , I 've been wondering about something .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: In the , um {disfmarker} a lot of the , um {disfmarker} the Hub - five systems , um , recently have been using LDA . and {disfmarker} and they , um {disfmarker} They run LDA on the features right before they train the models . So there 's the {disfmarker} the LDA is {disfmarker} is right there before the H M\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: So , you guys are using LDA but it seems like it 's pretty far back in the process .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , this LDA is different from the LDA that you are talking about . The LDA that you {disfmarker} saying is , like , you take a block of features , like nine frames or something , {comment} and then do an LDA on it ,\nPhD A: Yeah . Uh - huh .\nPhD D: and then reduce the dimensionality to something like twenty - four or something like that .\nPhD A: Yeah , you c you c you can .\nPhD D: And then feed it to HMM .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} you know , you 're just basically i\nPhD D: Yeah , so this is like a two d two dimensional tile .\nPhD A: You 're shifting the feature space . Yeah .\nPhD D: So this is a two dimensional tile . And the LDA that we are f applying is only in time , not in frequency {disfmarker} high cost frequency . So it 's like {disfmarker} more like a filtering in time , rather than doing a r\n",
      "PhD A: Ah . OK . So what i what about , um {disfmarker} i u what i w I mean , I don't know if this is a good idea or not , but what if you put {disfmarker} ran the other kind of LDA , uh , on your features right before they go into the HMM ?\nPhD D: Uh , it {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . No , actually , I think {disfmarker} i\nPhD D: m\n",
      "PhD C: Well . What do we do with the ANN is {disfmarker} is something like that except that it 's not linear . But it 's {disfmarker} it 's like a nonlinear discriminant analysis .\nPhD A: Yeah . Right , it 's the {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} Right . The {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Yeah , so it 's sort of like {disfmarker}\nPhD C: But .\nPhD A: The tandem stuff is kind of like i nonlinear LDA .\nPhD C: Yeah . It 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: I g\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: But I mean , w but the other features that you have , um , th the non - tandem ones ,\nPhD C: Uh . Mm - hmm . Yeah , I know . That {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} Yeah . Well , in the proposal , they were transformed u using PCA , but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD C: Yeah , it might be that LDA could be better .\n",
      "Professor B: The a the argument i is kind of i in {disfmarker} and it 's not like we really know , but the argument anyway is that , um , uh , we always have the prob I mean , discriminative things are good . LDA , neural nets , they 're good .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , they 're good because you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you learn to distinguish between these categories that you want to be good at distinguishing between . And PCA doesn't do that . It {disfmarker} PAC - PCA {disfmarker} low - order PCA throws away pieces that are uh , maybe not {disfmarker} not gonna be helpful just because they 're small , basically .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: But , uh , the problem is , training sets aren't perfect and testing sets are different . So you f you {disfmarker} you face the potential problem with discriminative stuff , be it LDA or neural nets , that you are training to discriminate between categories in one space but what you 're really gonna be g getting is {disfmarker} is something else .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: And so , uh , Stephane 's idea was , uh , let 's feed , uh , both this discriminatively trained thing and something that 's not . So you have a good set of features that everybody 's worked really hard to make ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and then , uh , you {disfmarker} you discriminately train it , but you also take the path that {disfmarker} that doesn't have that ,\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: and putting those in together . And that {disfmarker} that seem So it 's kind of like a combination of the {disfmarker} uh , what , uh , Dan has been calling , you know , a feature {disfmarker} uh , you know , a feature combination versus posterior combination or something . It 's {disfmarker} it 's , you know , you have the posterior combination but then you get the features from that and use them as a feature combination with these {disfmarker} these other things . And that seemed , at least in the last one , as he was just saying , he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} when he only did discriminative stuff , i it actually was {disfmarker} was {disfmarker} it didn't help at all in this particular case .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: There was enough of a difference , I guess , between the testing and training . But by having them both there {disfmarker} The fact is some of the time , the discriminative stuff is gonna help you .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And some of the time it 's going to hurt you ,\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: and by combining two information sources if , you know {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: So you wouldn't necessarily then want to do LDA on the non - tandem features because now you 're doing something to them that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: That i i I think that 's counter to that idea .\nPhD A: Yeah , right .\nProfessor B: Now , again , it 's {disfmarker} we 're just trying these different things . We don't really know what 's gonna work best . But if that 's the hypothesis , at least it would be counter to that hypothesis to do that .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , and in principle you would think that the neural net would do better at the discriminant part than LDA .\nPhD A: Right . Yeah . Well {disfmarker} y\nProfessor B: Though , maybe not .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . Exactly . I mean , we , uh {disfmarker} we were getting ready to do the tandem , uh , stuff for the Hub - five system , and , um , Andreas and I talked about it , and the idea w the thought was , \" Well , uh , yeah , that i you know {disfmarker} th the neural net should be better , but we should at least have uh , a number , you know , to show that we did try the LDA in place of the neural net , so that we can you know , show a clear path .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: You know , that you have it without it , then you have the LDA , then you have the neural net , and you can see , theoretically . So . I was just wondering {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , I think that 's a good idea .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Did {disfmarker} did you do that\nPhD A: Um . No .\nProfessor B: or {disfmarker} tha that 's a {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: That 's what {disfmarker} that 's what we 're gonna do next as soon as I finish this other thing . So .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . No , well , that 's a good idea . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nPhD A: We just want to show .\nProfessor B: i Yeah .\nPhD A: I mean , it {disfmarker} everybody believes it ,\nProfessor B: Oh , no it 's a g\nPhD A: but you know , we just {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: No , no , but it might not {disfmarker} not even be true .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's a great idea . I mean , one of the things that always disturbed me , uh , in the {disfmarker} the resurgence of neural nets that happened in the eighties was that , um , a lot of people {disfmarker} Because neural nets were pretty easy to {disfmarker} to use {disfmarker} a lot of people were just using them for all sorts of things without , uh , looking at all into the linear , uh {disfmarker} uh , versions of them .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor B: And , uh , people were doing recurrent nets but not looking at IIR filters , and {disfmarker} You know , I mean , uh , so I think , yeah , it 's definitely a good idea to try it .\nPhD A: Yeah , and everybody 's putting that on their {vocalsound} systems now , and so , I that 's what made me wonder about this ,\nProfessor B: Well , they 've been putting them in their systems off and on for ten years ,\nPhD A: but .\n",
      "Professor B: but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but , uh ,\nPhD A: Yeah , what I mean is it 's {disfmarker} it 's like in the Hub - five evaluations , you know , and you read the system descriptions and everybody 's got , {vocalsound} you know , LDA on their features .\nProfessor B: And now they all have that . I see .\nPhD A: And so .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh .\n",
      "PhD C: It 's the transformation they 're estimating on {disfmarker} Well , they are trained on the same data as the final HMM are .\nPhD A: Yeah , so it 's different . Yeah , exactly . Cuz they don't have these , you know , mismatches that {disfmarker} that you guys have .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So that 's why I was wondering if maybe it 's not even a good idea .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I don't know . I {disfmarker} I don't know enough about it ,\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: but {disfmarker} Um .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , part of why {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think part of why you were getting into the KLT {disfmarker} Y you were describing to me at one point that you wanted to see if , uh , you know , getting good orthogonal features was {disfmarker} and combining the {disfmarker} the different temporal ranges {disfmarker} was the key thing that was happening or whether it was this discriminant thing , right ? So you were just trying {disfmarker} I think you r I mean , this is {disfmarker} it doesn't have the LDA aspect but th as far as the orthogonalizing transformation , you were trying that at one point , right ?\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I think you were .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Does something . It doesn't work as well . Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: So , yeah , I 've been exploring a parallel VAD without neural network with , like , less latency using SNR and energy , um , after the cleaning up . So what I 'd been trying was , um , uh {disfmarker} After the b after the noise compensation , n I was trying t to f find a f feature based on the ratio of the energies , that is , cl after clean and before clean . So that if {disfmarker} if they are , like , pretty c close to one , which means it 's speech . And if it is n if it is close to zero , which is {disfmarker} So it 's like a scale @ @ probability value . So I was trying , uh , with full band and multiple bands , m ps uh {disfmarker} separating them to different frequency bands and deriving separate decisions on each bands , and trying to combine them . Uh , the advantage being like it doesn't have the latency of the neural net if it {disfmarker} if it can\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: g And {pause} it gave me like , uh , one point {disfmarker} One {disfmarker} more than one percent relative improvement . So , from fifty - three point six it went to fifty f four point eight . So it 's , like , only slightly more than a percent improvement ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: just like {disfmarker} Which means that it 's {disfmarker} it 's doing a slightly better job than the previous VAD ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: uh , at a l lower delay .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Um , so , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker} i d I 'm sorry ,\nPhD D: so {disfmarker} u\nProfessor B: does it still have the median {pause} filter stuff ?\nPhD D: It still has the median filter .\nProfessor B: So it still has most of the delay ,\nPhD D: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: it just doesn't {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , so d with the delay , that 's gone is the input , which is the sixty millisecond . The forty plus {pause} twenty .\nProfessor B: Well , w i\nPhD D: At the input of the neural net you have this , uh , f nine frames of context plus the delta .\nProfessor B: Oh , plus the delta ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: right . OK .\nPhD D: Yeah . So that delay , plus the LDA .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Uh , so the delay is only the forty millisecond of the noise cleaning , plus the hundred millisecond smoothing at the output .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Um . So . Yeah . So the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} di the biggest {disfmarker} The problem f for me was to find a consistent threshold that works {pause} well across the different databases , because I t I try to make it work on tr SpeechDat - Car\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: and it fails on TI - digits , or if I try to make it work on that it 's just the Italian or something , it doesn't work on the Finnish .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: So , um . So there are {disfmarker} there was , like , some problem in balancing the deletions and insertions when I try different thresholds .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: So {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} I 'm still trying to make it better by using some other features from the {disfmarker} after the p clean up {disfmarker} maybe , some , uh , correlation {disfmarker} auto - correlation or some s additional features of {disfmarker} to mainly the improvement of the VAD . I 've been trying .\n",
      "Professor B: Now this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this , uh , \" before and after clean \" , it sounds like you think that 's a good feature . That {disfmarker} that , it {disfmarker} you th think that the , uh {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} i it appears to be a good feature , right ?\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: What about using it in the neural net ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah , eventually we could {disfmarker} could just\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , so {disfmarker} Yeah , so that 's the {disfmarker} Yeah . So we 've been thinking about putting it into the neural net also .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Because they did {disfmarker} that itself {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Then you don't have to worry about the thresholds and {disfmarker}\nPhD D: There 's a threshold and {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: but just {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . So that {disfmarker} that 's , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . So if we {disfmarker} if we can live with the latency or cut the latencies elsewhere , then {disfmarker} then that would be a , uh , good thing .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Um , anybody {disfmarker} has anybody {disfmarker} you guys or {disfmarker} or Naren , uh , somebody , tried the , uh , um , second th second stream thing ? Uh .\n",
      "PhD D: Oh , I just {disfmarker} I just h put the second stream in place and , uh ran one experiment , but just like {disfmarker} just to know that everything is fine .\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: So it was like , uh , forty - five cepstrum plus twenty - three mel {disfmarker} log mel .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} and , just , like , it gave me the baseline performance of the Aurora , which is like zero improvement .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: So I just tried it on Italian just to know that everything is {disfmarker} But I {disfmarker} I didn't export anything out of it because it was , like , a weird feature set .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: So .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Well , what I think , you know , would be more what you 'd want to do is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is , uh , put it into another neural net . Right ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: And then {disfmarker} But , yeah , we 're {disfmarker} we 're not quite there yet . So we have to {vocalsound} figure out the neural nets , I guess .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: The uh , other thing I was wondering was , um , if the neural net , um , has any {disfmarker} because of the different noise con unseen noise conditions for the neural net , where , like , you train it on those four noise conditions , while you are feeding it with , like , a additional {disfmarker} some four plus some {disfmarker} f few more conditions which it hasn't seen , actually ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: from the {disfmarker} f f while testing .\nPhD C: Yeah , yeah . Right .\n",
      "PhD D: Um {disfmarker} instead of just h having c uh , those cleaned up t cepstrum , sh should we feed some additional information , like {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} We have the VAD flag . I mean , should we f feed the VAD flag , also , at the input so that it {disfmarker} it has some additional discriminating information at the input ?\nPhD C: Hmm - hmm ! Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Wh - uh , the {disfmarker} the VAD what ?\n",
      "PhD D: We have the VAD information also available at the back - end .\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: So if it is something the neural net is not able to discriminate the classes {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: I mean {disfmarker} Because most of it is sil I mean , we have dropped some silence f We have dropped so silence frames ?\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: No , we haven't dropped silence frames still .\nPhD C: Uh , still not . Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah . So {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Th\n",
      "PhD D: the b b biggest classification would be the speech and silence . So , by having an additional , uh , feature which says \" this is speech and this is nonspeech \" , I mean , it certainly helps in some unseen noise conditions for the neural net .\nPhD A: What {disfmarker} Do y do you have that feature available for the test data ?\nPhD D: Well , I mean , we have {disfmarker} we are transferring the VAD to the back - end {disfmarker} feature to the back - end . Because we are dropping it at the back - end after everything {disfmarker} all the features are computed .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , oh , I see .\nPhD D: So {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I see .\nPhD D: so the neural {disfmarker} so that is coming from a separate neural net or some VAD .\nPhD A: OK . OK .\nPhD D: Which is {disfmarker} which is certainly giving a\nPhD A: So you 're saying , feed that , also , into {pause} the neural net .\nPhD D: to {disfmarker} Yeah . So it it 's an {disfmarker} additional discriminating information .\nPhD A: Yeah . Yeah . Right .\n",
      "PhD D: So that {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: You could feed it into the neural net . The other thing {comment} you could do is just , um , p modify the , uh , output probabilities of the {disfmarker} of the , uh , uh , um , neural net , tandem neural net , {comment} based on the fact that you have a silence probability .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Right ?\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So you have an independent estimator of what the silence probability is , and you could multiply the two things , and renormalize .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , I mean , you 'd have to do the nonlinearity part and deal with that . Uh , I mean , go backwards from what the nonlinearity would , you know {disfmarker} would be .\nPhD D: Through {disfmarker} t to the soft max .\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah , so {disfmarker} maybe , yeah , when {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But in principle wouldn't it be better to feed it in ? And let the net do that ?\nProfessor B: Well , u Not sure .\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean , let 's put it this way . I mean , y you {disfmarker} you have this complicated system with thousands and thousand parameters\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: and you can tell it , uh , \" Learn this thing . \" Or you can say , \" It 's silence ! Go away ! \" I mean , I mean , i Doesn't {disfmarker} ? I think {disfmarker} I think the second one sounds a lot more direct .\nPhD A: What {disfmarker} what if you {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh .\n",
      "PhD A: Right . So , what if you then , uh {disfmarker} since you know this , what if you only use the neural net on the speech portions ?\nProfessor B: Well , uh ,\nPhD C: That 's what {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Well , I guess that 's the same . Uh , that 's similar .\nProfessor B: Yeah , I mean , y you 'd have to actually run it continuously ,\nPhD A: But I mean {disfmarker} I mean , train the net only on {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: but it 's {disfmarker} @ @ {disfmarker} Well , no , you want to train on {disfmarker} on the nonspeech also , because that 's part of what you 're learning in it , to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to generate , that it 's {disfmarker} it has to distinguish between .\nPhD D: Speech .\n",
      "PhD A: But I mean , if you 're gonna {disfmarker} if you 're going to multiply the output of the net by this other decision , uh , would {disfmarker} then you don't care about whether the net makes that distinction , right ?\nProfessor B: Well , yeah . But this other thing isn't perfect .\nPhD A: Ah .\nProfessor B: So that you bring in some information from the net itself .\nPhD A: Right , OK . That 's a good point .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Now the only thing that {disfmarker} that bothers me about all this is that I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the fact {disfmarker} i i It 's sort of bothersome that you 're getting more deletions .\nPhD C: Yeah . But {disfmarker} So I might maybe look at , is it due to the fact that um , the probability of the silence at the output of the network , is , uh ,\nProfessor B: Is too high .\n",
      "PhD C: too {disfmarker} too high or {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . So maybe {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}\nPhD C: If it 's the case , then multiplying it again by {disfmarker} i by something ?\nPhD D: It may not be {disfmarker} it {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah , it {disfmarker} it may be too {disfmarker} it 's too high in a sense , like , everything is more like a , um , flat probability .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Oh - eee - hhh .\nPhD D: So , like , it 's not really doing any distinction between speech and nonspeech {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Uh , yeah .\nPhD D: or , I mean , different {disfmarker} among classes .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Be interesting to look at the {disfmarker} Yeah , for the {disfmarker} I wonder if you could do this . But if you look at the , um , highly mism high mismat the output of the net on the high mismatch case and just look at , you know , the distribution versus the {disfmarker} the other ones , do you {disfmarker} do you see more peaks or something ?\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah , like the entropy of the {disfmarker} the output ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , for instance .\nPhD C: or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: But I {disfmarker} bu\nPhD C: It {disfmarker} it seems that the VAD network doesn't {disfmarker} Well , it doesn't drop , uh , too many frames because the dele the number of deletion is reasonable . But it 's just when we add the tandem , the final MLP , and then {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Now the only problem is you don't want to ta I guess wait for the output of the VAD before you can put something into the other system ,\nPhD C: u\n",
      "Professor B: cuz that 'll shoot up the latency a lot , right ? Am I missing something here ?\nPhD C: But {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: Yeah . Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So that 's maybe a problem with what I was just saying . But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} I I guess {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But if you were gonna put it in as a feature it means you already have it by the time you get to the tandem net , right ?\n",
      "PhD D: Um , well . We {disfmarker} w we don't have it , actually ,\nProfessor B: No .\nPhD D: because it 's {disfmarker} it has a high rate energy {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Ah .\nPhD D: the VAD has a {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: It 's kind of done in {disfmarker} I mean , some of the things are , not in parallel , but certainly , it would be in parallel with the {disfmarker} with a tandem net .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: In time . So maybe , if that doesn't work , um {disfmarker} But it would be interesting to see if that was the problem , anyway . And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and then I guess another alternative would be to take the feature that you 're feeding into the VAD , and feeding it into the other one as well .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And then maybe it would just learn {disfmarker} learn it better .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Um {disfmarker} But that 's {disfmarker} Yeah , that 's an interesting thing to try to see , if what 's going on is that in the highly mismatched condition , it 's , um , causing deletions by having this silence probability up {disfmarker} up too high ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: at some point where the VAD is saying it 's actually speech .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Which is probably true .\nPhD C: So , m\n",
      "Professor B: Cuz {disfmarker} Well , the V A if the VAD said {disfmarker} since the VAD is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is right a lot , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Hmm . Anyway . Might be .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Well , we just started working with it . But these are {disfmarker} these are some good ideas I think .\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm . Yeah , and the other thing {disfmarker} Well , there are other issues maybe for the tandem , like , uh , well , do we want to , w uh n Do we want to work on the targets ? Or , like , instead of using phonemes , using more context dependent units ?\nPhD A: For the tandem net you mean ?\nPhD C: Well , I 'm {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: I 'm thinking , also , a w about Dan 's work where he {disfmarker} he trained {vocalsound} a network , not on phoneme targets but on the HMM state targets . And {disfmarker} it was giving s slightly better results .\nProfessor B: Problem is , if you are going to run this on different m test sets , including large vocabulary ,\nPhD C: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor B: um ,\nPhD C: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I think {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: Mmm . I was just thinking maybe about , like , generalized diphones , and {disfmarker} come up with a {disfmarker} a reasonable , not too large , set of context dependent units , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} Yeah . And then anyway we would have to reduce this with the KLT .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: So . But {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Well , maybe . But I d I d it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} i it 's all worth looking at ,\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but it sounds to me like , uh , looking at the relationship between this and the {disfmarker} speech noise stuff is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is probably a key thing .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: That and the correlation between stuff .\nPhD A: So if , uh {disfmarker} if the , uh , high mismatch case had been more like the , uh , the other two cases {comment} in terms of giving you just a better performance , {comment} how would this number have changed ?\n",
      "PhD C: Mm - hmm . Oh , it would be {disfmarker} Yeah . Around five percent better , I guess . If {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} i\nPhD A: y Like sixty ?\nProfessor B: Well , we don't know what 's it 's gonna be the TI - digits yet . He hasn't got the results back yet .\nPhD C: Yeah . If you extrapolate the SpeechDat - Car well - matched and medium - mismatch , it 's around , yeah , maybe five .\nPhD A: Uh - huh . Yeah . So this would be sixty - two ?\n",
      "Professor B: Sixty - two .\nPhD A: Which is {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Sixty - two , yeah .\nPhD D: Somewhere around sixty , must be . Right ? Yeah .\nPhD C: Well , it 's around five percent , because it 's {disfmarker} s Right ? If everything is five percent .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: All the other ones were five percent ,\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: the {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: I d I d I just have the SpeechDat - Car right now , so {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: It 's running {disfmarker} it shou we should have the results today during the afternoon ,\nPhD A: Hmm .\nPhD C: but {disfmarker} Well .\nProfessor B: Hmm . Well {disfmarker} Um {disfmarker} So I won't be here for {disfmarker}\nPhD A: When {disfmarker} When do you leave ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , I 'm leaving next Wednesday . May or may not be in in the morning . I leave in the afternoon . Um ,\nPhD A: But you 're {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: so I {disfmarker}\nPhD A: are you {disfmarker} you 're not gonna be around this afternoon ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Oh .\nProfessor B: Oh , well . I 'm talking about next week . I 'm leaving {disfmarker} leaving next Wednesday .\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: This afternoon {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Oh , right , for the Meeting meeting ? Yeah , that 's just cuz of something on campus .\nPhD A: Ah , OK , OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . But , um , yeah , so next week I won't , and the week after I won't , cuz I 'll be in Finland . And the week after that I won't . By that time you 'll be {disfmarker} {comment} Uh , you 'll both be gone {pause} from here . So there 'll be no {disfmarker} definitely no meeting on {disfmarker} on September sixth . Uh ,\nPhD A: What 's September sixth ?\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker} Uh , that 's during Eurospeech .\nPhD A: Oh , oh , right . OK .\n",
      "Professor B: So , uh , Sunil will be in Oregon . Uh , Stephane and I will be in Denmark . Uh {disfmarker} Right ? So it 'll be a few weeks , really , before we have a meeting of the same cast of characters . Um , but , uh {disfmarker} I guess , just {disfmarker} I mean , you guys should probably meet . And maybe Barry {disfmarker} Barry will be around . And {disfmarker} and then uh , uh , we 'll start up again with Dave and {disfmarker} Dave and Barry and Stephane and us on the , uh , twentieth . No . Thirteenth ? About a month ?\n",
      "PhD A: So , uh , you 're gonna be gone for the next three weeks or something ?\nProfessor B: I 'm gone for two and a half weeks starting {disfmarker} starting next Wed - late next Wednesday .\nPhD A: So that 's {disfmarker} you won't be at the next three of these meetings . Is that right ?\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , I won't {disfmarker} it 's probably four because of {disfmarker} is it three ? Let 's see , twenty - third , thirtieth , sixth . That 's right , next three . And the {disfmarker} the third one won't {disfmarker} probably won't be a meeting , cuz {disfmarker} cuz , uh , Su - Sunil , Stephane , and I will all not be here .\nPhD A: Oh , right . Right .\n",
      "Professor B: Um {disfmarker} Mmm . {comment} So it 's just , uh , the next two where there will be {disfmarker} there , you know , may as well be meetings ,\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: but I just won't be at them . And then starting up on the thirteenth , {nonvocalsound} uh , we 'll have meetings again but we 'll have to do without Sunil here somehow .\nPhD A: When do you go back ?\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD D: Thirty - first , August .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . So . Cool .\n",
      "PhD A: When is the evaluation ? November , or something ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , it was supposed to be November fifteenth . Has anybody heard anything different ?\nPhD C: I don't know . The meeting in {disfmarker} is the five and six of December . So {disfmarker}\nPhD D: p s It 's like {disfmarker} Yeah , it 's tentatively all full . Yeah .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Uh , that 's a proposed date , I guess .\n"
    ],
    "length": 24853,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 76,
    "question": "What were the topics talked about in the meeting?",
    "answer": "The group discussed efforts to train and test the Aurora group's HTK-based recognition system on ICSI's digits corpus. Members also discussed efforts to produce forced alignments from a selection of Meeting Recorder data. Performance in both tasks was adversely affected by the manner of recording conditions implemented and difficulties attributing utterances to the appropriate speakers. While debugging efforts resulted in improved forced alignments, dealing with mixed channel speech and speaker overlap remains a key objective for future work. The group is additionally focused on a continued ability to feed different features into the recognizer and then train the system accordingly. ",
    "docs": [
      "Grad E: OK , we 're on .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad E: So , I mean , everyone who 's on the wireless check that they 're on .\nPhD F: C we {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Alright .\nPostdoc C: I see . Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nGrad E: OK , our agenda was quite short .\nProfessor B: Oh , could you {pause} close the door , maybe ? Yeah .\nGrad E: Sure . Two items , which was , uh , digits and possibly stuff on {disfmarker} on , uh , forced alignment , which Jane said that Liz and Andreas had in information on ,\n",
      "Professor B: \nGrad E: but they didn't ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I guess the only other thing , uh , for which I {disfmarker}\nGrad E: so .\nPhD F: We should do that second , because Liz might join us in time for that .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor B: Um . OK , so there 's digits , alignments , and , um , I guess the other thing , {vocalsound} which I came unprepared for , uh , {vocalsound} is , uh , to dis s s see if there 's anything anybody wants to discuss about the Saturday meeting .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nProfessor B: So . Any {disfmarker} I mean , maybe not .\nGrad E: Digits and alignments . But {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh .\nPhD F: Talk about aligning people 's schedules .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I mean {disfmarker} Right . Yeah , I mean , it was {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah , it 's forced alignment of people 's schedules .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD D: Forced align .\n",
      "PhD F: If we 're very {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: With {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} whatever it was , a month and a half or something ahead of time , the only time we could find in common {disfmarker} roughly in common , was on a Saturday .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Ugh .\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD F: It 's pretty sad .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Have {disfmarker} Have we thought about having a conference call to include him in more of {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in more of the meeting ? I {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know , if we had the {disfmarker} if we had the telephone on the table {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: No . But , h I mean , he probably has to go do something .\nPhD F: No , actually I {disfmarker} I have to {disfmarker} I have to shuttle {pause} kids from various places to various other places .\nProfessor B: Right ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: I see . OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: So . And I don't have {disfmarker} and I don't , um , have a cell phone\nPhD D: A cell phone ?\nPhD F: so I can't be having a conference call while driving .\nProfessor B: R r right .\nPostdoc C: No . {comment} It 's not good .\nProfessor B: So we have to {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: That 's not good .\nPhD F: Plus , it would make for interesting noise {disfmarker} background noise .\nProfessor B: \n",
      "Grad E: Yep .\nPhD F: Uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So we have to equip him with a {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with a head - mounted , uh , cell phone\nGrad E: Ye - we and we 'd have to force you to read lots and lots of digits ,\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker}\nGrad E: so it could get real {disfmarker} {vocalsound} real car noise .\nPhD F: Oh , yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: Oh , yeah .\nGrad G: Take advantage .\n",
      "PhD D: And with the kids in the background .\nPhD F: I 'll let {disfmarker} I 'd let {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: I let , uh , my five - year - old have a try at the digits , eh .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: So , anyway , I can talk about digits . Um , did everyone get the results or shall I go over them again ? I mean that it was basically {disfmarker} the only thing that was even slightly surprising was that the lapel did so well . Um , and in retrospect that 's not as surprising as maybe i it shouldn't have been as surprising as I {disfmarker} as {disfmarker} as I felt it was . The lapel mike is a very high - quality microphone . And as Morgan pointed out , that there are actually some advantages to it in terms of breath noises and clothes rustling {pause} if no one else is talking .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: Exactly .\nGrad E: Um , so , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Well , it 's {disfmarker} Yeah , sort of the bre the breath noises and the mouth clicks and so forth like that , the lapel 's gonna be better on .\nGrad G: It 's g it {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Or the cross - talk . Yeah .\nProfessor B: The lapel is typically worse on the {disfmarker} on clothes rustling , but if no one 's rustling their clothes ,\n",
      "Grad E: Right . I mean , a lot of people are just sort of leaning over and reading the digits ,\nProfessor B: it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad E: so it 's {disfmarker} it 's a very different task than sort of the natural .\nPhD D: Yeah . You don't move much during reading digits , I think .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: So .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Right .\n",
      "Grad G: Probably the fact that it picks up other people 's speakers {disfmarker} other people 's talking is an indication of that it {disfmarker} the fact it is a good microphone .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Right . So in the digits , in most {disfmarker} most cases , there weren't other people talking .\nGrad E: Right . Right .\nGrad G: So .\nProfessor B: So .\nPhD F: D do the lapel mikes have any directionality to them ?\nProfessor B: There typically don't , no .\n",
      "PhD F: Because I {disfmarker} I suppose you could make some that have sort of {disfmarker} that you have to orient towards your mouth ,\nGrad E: They have a little bit ,\nPhD F: and then it would {disfmarker}\nGrad E: but they 're not noise - cancelling . So , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: They 're {disfmarker} they 're intended to be omni - directional .\nGrad E: Right .\nProfessor B: And th it 's {disfmarker} and because you don't know how people are gonna put them on , you know .\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Right . So , also , Andreas , on that one the {disfmarker} the back part of it should be right against your head . And that will he keep it from flopping aro up and down as much .\nPhD F: It is against my head .\nGrad E: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Um . Yeah , we actually talked about this in the , uh , front - end meeting this morning , too . Much the same thing ,\nGrad E: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker} and it was {disfmarker} uh , I mean , there the point of interest to the group was primarily that , um , {vocalsound} the , uh {disfmarker} the system that we had that was based on H T K , that 's used by , you know , {pause} all the participants in Aurora , {vocalsound} was so much worse {vocalsound} than the {disfmarker} than the S R\nGrad E: Everybody .\n",
      "Professor B: And the interesting thing is that even though , {vocalsound} yes , it 's a digits task and that 's a relatively small number of words and there 's a bunch of digits that you train on , {vocalsound} it 's just not as good as having a {disfmarker} a l very large amount of data and training up a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a nice good big {vocalsound} HMM . Um , also you had the adaptation in the SRI system , which we didn't have in this . Um . So . Um .\n",
      "PhD F: And we know {disfmarker} Di - did I send you some results without adaptation ?\nGrad E: No .\nProfessor B: I s I think Stephane , uh , had seen them .\nGrad E: Or if you did , I didn't include them , cuz it was {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah , I think I did , actually . So there was a significant loss from not doing the adaptation .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Um . A {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a couple percent or some I mean {disfmarker} Well , I don't know it {disfmarker} Overall {disfmarker} Uh , I {disfmarker} I don't remember , but there was {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} there was a significant , um , loss or win {comment} from adaptation {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with adaptation . And , um , that was the phone - loop adaptation . And then there was a very small {disfmarker} like point one percent on the natives {disfmarker} uh , win from doing , um , you know , adaptation to {pause} the recognition hypotheses . And {pause} I tried both means adaptation and means and variances , and the variances added another {disfmarker} or subtracted another point one percent . So , {vocalsound} it 's , um {disfmarker} that 's the number there . Point six , I believe , is what you get with both , uh , means and variance adaptation .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nProfessor B: But I think one thing is that , uh , I would presume {disfmarker} Hav - Have you ever t {vocalsound} Have you ever tried this exact same recognizer out on the actual TI - digits test set ?\nPhD F: This exact same recognizer ? No .\nProfessor B: It might be interesting to do that . Cuz my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} cuz my sense , um {disfmarker}\nPhD F: But {disfmarker} but , I have {disfmarker} I mean , people {disfmarker} people at SRI are actually working on digits .\n",
      "Grad E: I bet it would do even slightly better .\nPhD F: I could {disfmarker} and they are using a system that 's , um {disfmarker} you know , h is actually trained on digits , um , but h h otherwise uses the same , you know , decoder , the same , uh , training methods , and so forth ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: and I could ask them what they get {pause} on TI - digits .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , bu although I 'd be {disfmarker} I think it 'd be interesting to just take this exact actual system so that these numbers were comparable\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: and try it out on TI - digits .\nPhD F: Well , Adam knows how to run it ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah . No problem .\nPhD F: so you just make a f\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . Cuz our sense from the other {disfmarker} from the Aurora , uh , task is that {disfmarker}\nGrad E: And try it with TI - digits ?\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean , cuz we were getting sub one percent {vocalsound} numbers on TI - digits also with the tandem thing .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: So , {vocalsound} one {disfmarker} so there were a number of things we noted from this .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nProfessor B: One is , yeah , the SRI system is a lot better than the HTK {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Hmm .\nProfessor B: this , you know , very limited training HTK system .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , but the other is that , um , the digits {vocalsound} recorded here in this room with these close mikes , i uh , are actually a lot harder than the {pause} studio - recording TI - digits . I think , you know , one reason for that , uh , might be that there 's still {disfmarker} even though it 's close - talking , there still is some noise and some room acoustics .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And another might be that , uh , I 'd {disfmarker} I would presume that in the studio , uh , uh , situation recording read speech that if somebody did something a little funny or n pronounced something a little funny or made a little {disfmarker} that they didn't include it ,\nGrad E: They didn't include it .\nProfessor B: they made them do it again .\nGrad E: Whereas , I took out {pause} the ones that I noticed that were blatant {disfmarker} that were correctable .\nProfessor B: Mmm . Yeah .\nGrad E: So that , if someone just read the wrong digit , I corrected it .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: And then there was another one where Jose couldn't tell whether {disfmarker} I couldn't tell whether he was saying zero or six . And I asked him and he couldn't tell either .\nGrad I: Hmm .\nGrad E: So I just cut it out .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: You know , so I just e edited out the first , i uh , word of the utterance . Um , so there 's a little bit of correction but it 's definitely not as clean as TI - digits . So my expectations is TI - digits would , especially {disfmarker} I think TI - digits is all {pause} American English .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Right ? So it would probably do even a little better still on the SRI system , but we could give it a try .\n",
      "PhD F: Well . But {pause} remember , we 're using a telephone bandwidth front - end here , uh , on this , uh {disfmarker} on this SRI system , so , {vocalsound} um , I was {disfmarker} I thought that maybe that 's actually a good thing because it {disfmarker} it gets rid of some of the {disfmarker} uh , the noises , um , you know , in the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} below and above the {disfmarker} um , the , you know , speech bandwidth\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: and , um , I suspect that to get sort of the last bit out of these higher - quality recordings you would have to in fact , uh , use models that , uh , were trained on wider - band data . And of course we can't do that or {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Wha - what 's TI - digits ? I thought t\nProfessor B: It 's wide - band , yeah . It 's {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in fact , we looked it up\nGrad E: It is wide - band . OK .\n",
      "Professor B: and it was actually twenty kilohertz sampling .\nGrad E: Oh , that 's right . I {disfmarker} I did look that up .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: I couldn't remember whether that was TI - digits or one of the other digit tasks .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Right . But {disfmarker} but , I would {disfmarker} Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's easy enough to try , just run it on {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: See w\n",
      "Grad E: So , Morgan , you 're getting a little breath noise .\nPhD F: Now , eh , does {disfmarker}\nGrad E: You might wanna move the mike down a little bit .\nPhD F: one {disfmarker} one issue {disfmarker} one issue with {disfmarker} with that is that {vocalsound} um , the system has this , uh , notion of a speaker to {disfmarker} which is used in adaptation , variance norm uh , you know , both in , uh , mean and variance normalization and also in the VTL {pause} estimation .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: So {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Yeah , I noticed the script that extracted it .\nPhD F: Do y ? Is {disfmarker} ? So does {disfmarker} so th so does {disfmarker} does , um , {vocalsound} the TI - digits database have speakers that are known ?\nGrad E: Yep . Yep .\nPhD F: And is there {disfmarker} is there enough data or a comparable {disfmarker} comparable amount of data to {disfmarker} to what we have in our recordings here ?\n",
      "Grad E: That I don't know . I don't know . I don't know how many speakers there are ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: and {disfmarker} and how many speakers per utterance .\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor B: Well , the other thing would be to do it without the adaptation and compare to these numbers without the adaptation . That would {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right . Uh , but I 'm not so much worried about the adaptation , actually , than {disfmarker} than the , um , {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} the , uh , VTL estimation .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nPhD F: If you have only one utterance per speaker you might actually screw up on estimating the {disfmarker} the warping , uh , factor . So , um {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I strongly suspect that they have more speakers than we do . So , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right . But it 's not the amount of speakers , it 's the num it 's the amount of data per speaker .\nGrad E: Right . So we {disfmarker} we could probably do an extraction that was roughly equivalent .\nPhD F: Right . Right .\nGrad E: Um .\n",
      "PhD F: So {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So , although I {disfmarker} I sort of know how to run it , there are a little {disfmarker} a f few details here and there that I 'll have to {pause} dig out .\nPhD F: OK . The key {disfmarker} So th the system actually extracts the speaker ID from the waveform names .\nGrad E: Right . I saw that .\n",
      "PhD F: And there 's a {disfmarker} there 's a script {disfmarker} and that is actually all in one script . So there 's this one script that parses waveform names and extracts things like the , um , speaker , uh , ID or something that can stand in as a speaker ID . So , we might have to modify that script to recognize the , um , speakers , {vocalsound} um , in the {disfmarker} in the , uh , um , {vocalsound} TI - digits {pause} database .\nGrad E: Right . Right . And that , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Or you can fake {disfmarker} you can fake {pause} names for these waveforms that resemble the names that we use here for the {disfmarker} for the meetings .\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD F: That would be the , sort of {disfmarker} probably the safest way to do {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I might have to do that anyway to {disfmarker} to do {disfmarker} because we may have to do an extract to get the {pause} amount of data per speaker about right .\nPhD F: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad E: The other thing is , isn't TI - digits isolated digits ?\nPhD F: Right .\nGrad E: Or is that another one ? I 'm {disfmarker} I looked through a bunch of the digits t corp corpora , and now they 're all blurring .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Cuz one of them was literally people reading a single digit . And then others were connected digits .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Most of TI - digits is connected digits , I think .\nGrad E: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: The {disfmarker} I mean , we had a Bellcore corpus that we were using . It was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's {disfmarker} that was isolated digits .\nGrad E: Maybe it 's the Bell Gram . Bell Digits . Alright .\nProfessor B: Um .\nPhD F: By the way , I think we can improve these numbers if we care to compr improve them {vocalsound} by , um , {vocalsound} not starting with the Switchboard models but by taking the Switchboard models and doing supervised adaptation on a small amount of digit data collected in this setting .\n",
      "Grad E: Yep .\nPhD F: Because that would adapt your models to the room acoustics and f for the far - field microphones , you know , to the noise . And that should really improve things , um , further . And then you use those adapted models , which are not speaker adapted but sort of acous you know , channel adapted {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Channel adapted .\nPhD F: use that as the starting models for your speaker adaptation .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . {vocalsound} But the thing is , uh {disfmarker} I mean , w when you {disfmarker} it depends whether you 're ju were just using this as a {disfmarker} {vocalsound} a starter task for {disfmarker} you know , to get things going for conversational or if we 're really interested i in connected digits . And I {disfmarker} I think the answer is both . And for {disfmarker} for connected digits over the telephone you don't actually want to put a whole lot of effort into adaptation\n",
      "PhD F: Well , I don't know .\nProfessor B: because {vocalsound} somebody {pause} gets on the phone and says a number and then you just want it . You don't {disfmarker} don't , uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: This is {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} that one 's better .\nPhD F: Right .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: Um , but , you know , I {disfmarker} uh , my impression was that you were actually interested in the far - field microphone , uh , problem , I mean . So , you want to {disfmarker} you want to {disfmarker} That 's the obvious thing to try .\nPostdoc C: Oh . Oh .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD F: Right ? Then , eh {disfmarker} because you {disfmarker} you don't have any {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: That 's where the most m acoustic mismatch is between the currently used models and the {disfmarker} the r the set up here .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD F: So .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So that 'd be anoth another interesting data point .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: I mean , I {disfmarker} I guess I 'm saying I don't know if we 'd want to do that as the {disfmarker} as {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Other way .\nGrad E: Other way . Liz {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Now you 're all watching me .\nGrad E: It f it clips over your ears .\nPhD A: Alright . This way .\nGrad E: There you go .\nPostdoc C: If you have a strong fe if you have a strong preference , you could use this .\nPhD A: You 're all watching . This is terrible .\nPostdoc C: It 's just we {disfmarker} we think it has some spikes . So , uh , we {disfmarker} we didn't use that one .\nPhD A: I 'll get it .\nPostdoc C: But you could if you want .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . At any rate , I don't know if w\nPostdoc C: I don't know . And Andre - Andreas , your {disfmarker} your microphone 's a little bit low .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: It is ?\nProfessor B: I don't know if we wanna use that as the {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Uh , it pivots .\nPhD F: Uh .\nPostdoc C: So if you see the picture\nGrad E: It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} like this .\nPhD F: I I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc C: and then you have to scr\nPhD F: I {disfmarker} I already adjusted this a number of times .\nGrad E: Eh .\nPhD F: I {disfmarker} I\nGrad E: Yeah , I think these mikes are not working as well as I would like .\nPhD F: can't quite seem to {disfmarker} Yeah , I think this contraption around your head is not {pause} working so well .\n",
      "Professor B: Too many adju too many adjustments . Yeah . Anyway , what I was saying is that I {disfmarker} I think I probably wouldn't want to see that as sort of like the norm , that we compared all things to .\nPostdoc C: That looks good . Yeah .\nProfessor B: To , uh , the {disfmarker} to have {disfmarker} have all this ad all this , uh , adaptation . But I think it 's an important data point , if you 're {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: Um . The other thing that {disfmarker} that , uh {disfmarker} of course , what Barry was looking at was {disfmarker} was just that , the near versus far . And , yeah , the adaptation would get {vocalsound} th some of that .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: But , I think even {disfmarker} even if there was , uh , only a factor of two or something , like I was saying in the email , I think that 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that 's a big factor . So {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: N\nGrad E: Liz , you could also just use the other mike if you 're having problems with that one .\nPostdoc C: Well .\nPhD A: OK .\nPostdoc C: Yeah . This would be OK . We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we think that this has spikes on it ,\nPhD A: It 's this thing 's {disfmarker} This is too big for my head .\nPostdoc C: so it 's not as good acoustically ,\nPhD F: Yeah , basically your ears are too big .\n",
      "Postdoc C: but {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I mean , mine are too . E th everybody 's ears are too big for these things .\nPhD A: No , my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} But this is too big for my head . So , I mean , {comment} {comment} it doesn't {disfmarker} you know , it 's sit\nPhD F: Uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Well , if you 'd rather have this one then it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Oh , well .\n",
      "Professor B: It 's {pause} great .\nGrad E: So the {disfmarker} To get that , uh , pivoted this way , it pivots like this .\nPhD A: No this way . Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah . There you go .\nPostdoc C: And there 's a screw that you can tighten .\nGrad E: And then it {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right .\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD A: I already {pause} tried to get it close .\nPostdoc C: Good .\nGrad E: So if it doesn't bounce around too much , that 's actually good placement .\n",
      "PhD A: OK .\nPostdoc C: That looks good .\nGrad E: But it looks like it 's gonna bounce a lot .\nProfessor B: So , where were we ? Uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Digits . Adaptation .\nProfessor B: Uh , adaptation , non - adaptation , um , factor of two , um {disfmarker} Oh , yeah . I know what I was go w\nPhD F: What k u By the way , wh what factor of two did you {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor B: Oh , no , no .\n",
      "PhD F: I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: It 's tha that {disfmarker} that we were saying , you know , well is {disfmarker} how much worse is far than near , you know .\nPhD F: Oh , th OK .\nProfessor B: And I mean it depends on which one you 're looking at ,\nPhD F: That factor of two .\nProfessor B: but for the everybody , it 's {vocalsound} little under a factor or two .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I know what I was thinking was that maybe , uh , i i we could actually t t try at least looking at , uh , some of the {disfmarker} the large vocabulary speech from a far microphone , at least from the good one .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , before I thought we 'd get , you know , a hundred and fifty percent error or something , but if {disfmarker} {vocalsound} if , uh {disfmarker} if we 're getting thirty - five , forty percent or something , {vocalsound} u um {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Actually if you run , though , on a close - talking mike over the whole meeting , during all those silences , you get , like , four hundred percent word error .\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm . Right . I understand . But doing the same kind of limited thing {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Or {disfmarker} or some high number .\nProfessor B: Yeah , sure . Get all these insertions . But I 'm saying if you do the same kind of limited thing {vocalsound} as people have done in Switchboard evaluations or as {disfmarker} a\nPhD A: Yeah . Where you know who the speaker is and there 's no overlap ? And you do just the far - field for those regions ?\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Yeah . The same sort of numbers that we got those graphs from . Right ?\nGrad E: Could we do exactly the same thing that we 're doing now , but do it with a far - field mike ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , do it with one of {disfmarker} on\nGrad E: Cuz we extract the times from the near - field mike , but you use the acoustics from the far - field mike .\n",
      "PhD A: Right . I understand that . I just meant that {disfmarker} so you have {pause} three choices . There 's , um {disfmarker} You can use times where that person is talking only from the transcripts but the segmentations were {disfmarker} were synchronized . Or you can do a forced alignment on the close - talking to determine that , the you know , within this segment , these really were the times that this person was talking and elsewhere in the segment other people are overlapping and just front - end those pieces . Or you can run it on the whole data , which is {disfmarker} which is , you know , a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but how did we get the {disfmarker} how did we determine the links , uh , that we 're testing on in the stuff we reported ?\nPhD A: In the H L T paper we took {pause} segments that are channel {disfmarker} time - aligned , which is now h being changed in the transcription process , which is good , and we took cases where the transcribers said there was only one person talking here , because no one else had time {disfmarker} any words in that segment and called that \" non - overlap \" .\n",
      "Professor B: And tha And that 's what we were getting those numbers from .\nPhD A: Yes . Tho - good {disfmarker} the good numbers .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD A: The bad numbers were from {pause} the segments where there was overlap .\nProfessor B: Well , we could start with the good ones .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But anyway {disfmarker} so I think that we should try it once with {vocalsound} the same conditions that were used to create those , and in those same segments just use one of the P Z\n",
      "PhD A: Right . So we {disfmarker} we can do that . Yeah .\nProfessor B: And then , you know , I mean , the thing is if we were getting , uh {disfmarker} what , thirty - five , forty percent , something like that on {disfmarker} on that particular set , uh , does it go to seventy or eighty ?\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Or , does it use up so much memory we can't decode it ?\nPhD A: It might also depend on which speaker th it is and how close they are to the PZM ?\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: I don't know how different they are from each other .\nPhD F: You want to probably choose the PZM channel that is closest to the speaker .\nPhD A: To be best {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: For this particular digit ones , I just picked that one .\nPhD A: f\nProfessor B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD A: OK . So we would then use that one , too ,\nGrad E: So {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: This is kind of central .\nPhD A: or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Professor B: You know , it 's {disfmarker} so i but I would {disfmarker} I 'd pick that one . It 'll be less good for some people than for other , but I {disfmarker} I 'd like to see it on the same {disfmarker} exact same data set that {disfmarker} that we did the other thing on .\nGrad E: Actually {disfmarker} I sh actually should 've picked a different one ,\nProfessor B: Right ?\nGrad E: because {pause} that could be why the PDA is worse . Because it 's further away from most of the people reading digits .\n",
      "PhD D: It 's further away . Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor B: That 's probably one of the reasons .\nPostdoc C: Hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Well , yeah . You could look at , I guess , that PZM or something .\nGrad E: Yep .\n",
      "Professor B: But the other is , it 's very , uh {disfmarker} I mean , even though there 's {disfmarker} I 'm sure the f f the {disfmarker} the SRI , uh , front - end has some kind of pre - emphasis , it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} still , th it 's picking up lots of low - frequency energy .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , even discriminating against it , I 'm sure some of it 's getting through . Um . But , yeah , you 're right . Prob - a part of it is just the distance .\nPhD A: And aren't these pretty bad microphones ?\nGrad E: Yep .\nPhD A: I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well , they 're bad . But , I mean , if you listen to it , it sounds OK . You know ? u Yeah .\n",
      "Grad E: Yeah . When you listen to it , uh , the PZM and the PDA {disfmarker} Yeah , th the PDA has higher sound floor but not by a lot . It 's really pretty {disfmarker} uh , pretty much the same .\nPhD A: I just remember you saying you got them to be cheap on purpose . Cheap in terms of their quality . So .\nProfessor B: Well , they 're {pause} twenty - five cents or so .\nGrad E: Th - we wanted them to be {disfmarker} to be typical of what would be in a PDA .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: So they are {disfmarker} they 're not the PZM three hundred dollar type . They 're the twenty - five cent ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: buy them in packs of thousand type .\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: But , I mean , the thing is people use those little mikes for everything because they 're really not bad .\nGrad E: Everything .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , if you 're not {vocalsound} doing something ridiculous like feeding it to a speech recognizer , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} {vocalsound} they {disfmarker} you know , you can hear the sou hear the sounds just fine .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: You know , it 's {disfmarker} They {disfmarker} I mean , i it 's more or less the same principles as these other mikes are built under , it 's just that {pause} there 's less quality control . They just , you know , churn them out and don't check them . Um . So . So that was {disfmarker} Yeah . So that was i interesting result . So like I said , the front - end guys are very much interested in {disfmarker} in this is as {disfmarker} as well and\n",
      "PhD F: So {disfmarker} so , but where is this now ? I mean , what 's {disfmarker} where do we go from here ?\nGrad E: Yeah . That was gonna be my question .\nPhD F: I mean , we {disfmarker} so we have a {disfmarker} we have a {disfmarker} a system that works pretty well but it 's not , you know , the system that people here are used to using {disfmarker} to working with .\nProfessor B: Well , I think what we wanna do is we want to {disfmarker} eh ,\n",
      "PhD F: So what {disfmarker} what do we do now ?\nProfessor B: and we 've talked about this in other {pause} contexts {disfmarker} we want to {vocalsound} have the ability to feed it different features .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And then , um , {vocalsound} from the point of view of the front - end research , it would be s uh , substituting for HTK .\nPhD F: OK . OK .\n",
      "Professor B: I think that 's the key thing . And then if we can feed it different features , then we can try all the different things that we 're trying there .\nPhD F: OK . Alright .\nProfessor B: And then , um , uh , also Dave is {disfmarker} is thinking about using the data in different ways , uh , to {vocalsound} um , uh , explicitly work on reverberation\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: starting with some techniques that some other people have {pause} found somewhat useful , and {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: OK . So {disfmarker} so the key {pause} thing that 's missing here is basically the ability to feed , you know , other features {vocalsound} i into the recognizer\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD F: and also then to train the system .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD F: OK . And , uh , es I don't know when Chuck will be back but that 's exactly what he {disfmarker} he 's gonna {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: H h He 's {disfmarker} he 's sort of back , but he drove for fourteen hours an and wasn't gonna make it in today .\nPhD F: Oh , OK . So , I think that 's one of the things that he said he would be working on . Um .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Just sort of t to make sure that {pause} we can do that\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: and {disfmarker} Um .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: It 's {disfmarker} uh , I mean , the {disfmarker} the front - end is f i tha that 's in the SRI recognizer is very nice in that it does a lot of things on the fly but it unfortunately {pause} is not {pause} designed and , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} like the , uh , ICSI system is , where you can feed it from a pipeline of {disfmarker} of the command . So , the {disfmarker} what that means probably for the foreseeable future is that you have to , uh , dump out , um {disfmarker} you know , if you want to use some new features , you have to dump them into individual files and {pause} give those files to the recognizer .\n",
      "Grad E: We do {disfmarker} we tend to do that anyway .\nPhD F: OK .\nGrad E: Oh . So , although you {disfmarker} you can pipe it as well , we tend to do it that way because that way you can concentrate on one block and not keep re - doing it over and over .\nPhD F: Oh , OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Alright .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So I 've {disfmarker} I {disfmarker}\nGrad E: So tha that 's exactly what the P - file {pause} is for .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the cumbersome thing is {disfmarker} is , um {disfmarker} is that you actually have to dump out little {disfmarker} little files .\nPhD A: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: So for each segment that you want to recognize {vocalsound} you have to {pause} dump out {pause} a separate file .\nGrad E: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD F: Just like i th like th as if there were these waveform segments , but instead you have sort of feature file segments . But , you know {disfmarker} So .\nProfessor B: Cool . OK . So the s the {disfmarker} the next thing we had on the agenda was something about alignments ?\n",
      "PhD A: Oh . Yes , we have {disfmarker} I don't know , did you wanna talk about it , or {disfmarker} ? I can give a {disfmarker} I was just telling this to Jane and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} W we {disfmarker} we were able to get some definite improvement on the forced alignments by looking at them first and then realizing the kinds of errors {pause} that were occurring and um , some of the errors occurring very frequently are just things like the first word being moved to as early as possible in the recognition , which is a um , I think was both a {disfmarker} a pruning {pause} problem and possibly a problem with needing constraints on word locations . And so we tried both of these st things . We tried saying {disfmarker} I don't know , I got this {vocalsound} whacky idea that {disfmarker} just from looking at the data , that when people talk {pause} their words are usually chunked together . It 's not that they say one word and then there 's a bunch of words together . They 're {comment} might say one word and then another word far away if they were doing just backchannels ? But in general , if there 's , like , five or six words and one word 's far away from it , that 's probably wrong on average . So , um {disfmarker} And then also , ca the pruning , of course , was too {disfmarker} too severe .\n",
      "PhD F: So that 's actually interesting . The pruning was the same value that we used for recognition . And we had lowered that {disfmarker} we had used tighter pruning after Liz ran some experiments showing that , you know , it runs slower and there 's no real difference in {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Actually it was better with {disfmarker} slightly better or about th\nGrad E: No gain .\nPhD A: it was the same with tighter pruning .\nPhD F: Right . So for free recognition , this {disfmarker} the lower pruning value is better .\n",
      "PhD A: It 's probably cuz the recognition 's just bad en at a point where it 's bad enough that {disfmarker} that you don't lose anything .\nPhD F: You {disfmarker} Correct . Right . Um , but it turned out for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} to get accurate alignments it was really important to open up the pruning significantly .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Hmm .\nPhD F: Um {pause} because otherwise it would sort of do greedy alignment , um , in regions where there was no real speech yet from the foreground speaker .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: Um , {vocalsound} so that was one big factor that helped improve things and then the other thing was that , you know , as Liz said the {disfmarker} we f enforce the fact that , uh , the foreground speech has to be continuous . It cannot be {disfmarker} you cannot have a background speech hypothesis in the middle of the foreground speech . You can only have background speech at the beginning and the end .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . I mean , yeah , it isn't always true , and I think what we really want is some clever way to do this , where , um , you know , from the data or from maybe some hand - corrected alignments from transcribers that things like words that do occur just by themselves {pause} a alone , like backchannels or something that we did allow to have background speech around it {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: those would be able to do that ,\nPostdoc C: Sorry .\n",
      "PhD A: but the rest would be constrained . So , I think we have a version that 's pretty good for the native speakers . I don't know yet about the non - native speakers . And , um , we basically also made noise models for the different {disfmarker} sort of grouped some of the {pause} mouth noises together . Um , so , and then there 's a background speech model . And we also {disfmarker} There was some neat {disfmarker} or , interesting cases , like there 's one meeting where , {vocalsound} um , Jose 's giving a presentation and he 's talking about , um , the word \" mixed {pause} signal \" and someone didn't understand , uh , that you were saying \" mixed \" {disfmarker} I think , Morgan . And so your speech - ch was s saying something about mixed signal .\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD A: And the next turn was a lot of people saying \" mixed \" , like \" he means mixed signal \" or \" I think it 's mixed \" . And the word \" mixed \" in this segment occurs , like , a bunch of times .\nPhD H: Sh\nPhD A: And Chuck 's on the lapel here , and he also says \" mixed \" but it 's at the last one , and of course the aligner th aligns it everywhere else to everybody else 's \" mixed \" ,\nPhD H: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: cuz there 's no adaptation yet . So there 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I think there 's some issues about {disfmarker} u We probably want to adapt at least the foreground speaker . But , I guess Andreas tried adapting both the foreground and a background generic speaker , and that 's actually a little bit of a f funky model . Like , it gives you some weird alignments , just because often the background speakers match better to the foreground than the foreground speaker .\nPhD F: Oh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: So there 's some things there ,\n",
      "PhD H: Oh .\nPhD A: especially when you get lots of the same words , uh , occurring in the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Well , the {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think you can do better by {vocalsound} uh , cloning {disfmarker} so we have a reject phone . And you {disfmarker} and what we wanted to try with {disfmarker} you know , once we have this paper written and have a little more time , {vocalsound} uh , t cloning that reject model and then one copy of it would be adapted to the foreground speaker to capture the rejects in the foreground , like fragments and stuff , and the other copy would be adapted to the background speaker .\n",
      "PhD A: Right . I mean , in general we actually {disfmarker}\nPhD F: And {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right now the words like {pause} partial words are {pause} reject models and you normally allow those to match to any word .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: But then the background speech was also a reject model , and so this constraint of not allowing rejects in between {disfmarker} you know , it needs to differentiate between the two . So just sort of working through a bunch of debugging kinds of issues .\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: And another one is turns , like people starting with {vocalsound} \" well I think \" and someone else is {pause} \" well how about \" . So the word \" well \" is in this {disfmarker} in this {pause} segment multiple times , and as soon as it occurs usually the aligner will try to align it to the first person who says it . But then that constraint of sort of {disfmarker} uh , proximity constraint will push it over to the person who really said it in general .\n",
      "Grad E: Is the proximity constraint a hard constraint , or did you do some sort of probabilistic weighting distance , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD F: We {disfmarker} we didn't {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right now it 's a kluge .\nPhD F: No . We {disfmarker} w OK . We {disfmarker} it 's straightforward to actually just have a {disfmarker} a penalty that doesn't completely disallows it but discourages it . But , um , we just didn't have time to play with , you know , tuning yet another {disfmarker} yet another parameter .\n",
      "Grad E: The ve level . Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD F: And really the reason we can't do it is just that we don't have a {disfmarker} we don't have ground truth for these . So , {vocalsound} we would need a hand - marked , um , {vocalsound} word - level alignments or at least sort of the boundaries of the speech betw you know , between the speakers . Um , and then use that as a reference and tune the parameters of the {disfmarker} of the model , uh , to op to get the best {pause} performance .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: G given {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean , I wa I wa I was gonna ask you anyway , uh , how you assessed that things were better .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I looked at them . I spent two days {disfmarker} um , in Waves {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , it was painful because {vocalsound} the thing is , you know the alignments share a lot in common , so {disfmarker} And you 're {disfmarker} yo you 're looking at these segments where there 's a lot of speech . I mean , a lot of them have a lot of words . Not by every speaker\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: but by some speaker there 's a lot of words . No , not {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean that if you look at the individual segments from just one person you don't see a lot of words ,\nPhD H: Ju\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: but altogether you 'll see a lot of words up there .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: And so the reject is also mapping and pauses {disfmarker} So I looked at them all in Waves and just lined up all the alignments , and , at first it sort of looked like a mess and then the more I looked at it , I thought \" OK , well it 's moving these words leftward and {disfmarker} \" You know , it wasn't that bad . It was just doing certain things wrong . So {disfmarker} But , I don't , you know , have time to l {comment} to look at all of them and it would be really useful to have , like , a {disfmarker} a transcriber who could use Waves , um , just mark , like , the beginning and end of the foreground speaker 's real words {disfmarker} like , the beginning of the first word , the end of the last word {disfmarker} and then we could , you know , do some adjustments .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Yeah . I {disfmarker} OK . I have to ask you something , is i does it have to be Waves ? Because if we could benefit from what you did , incorporate that into the present transcripts , {comment} that would help .\nPhD F: No .\nPostdoc C: And then , um , the other thing is , I believe that I did hand So . One of these transcripts was gone over by a transcriber and then I hand - marked it myself so that we do have , uh , the beginning and ending of individual utterances . Um , I didn't do it word level ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: but {disfmarker} but in terms {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: So I {disfmarker} so for {disfmarker} for one of the N S A groups . And also I went back to the original one that I first transcribed and {disfmarker} and did it w uh , w uh , utterance by utterance for that particular one . So I think you do have {disfmarker} if that 's a sufficient unit , I think that you do have hand - marking for that . But it 'd be wonderful to be able to {vocalsound} benefit from your Waves stuff .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: We don't care what {disfmarker} what tool you use .\nPhD A: Yeah . I mean , if {disfmarker} if you can , um {disfmarker} if you wanna {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: OK . I used it in Transcriber\nPhD F: U uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: and it 's {disfmarker} it 's in the {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: well , Jane and I were {disfmarker} just in terms of the tool , talking about this . I guess Sue had had some {pause} reactions . You know , interface - wise if you 're looking at speech , you wanna be able to know really where the words are . And so , {vocalsound} we can give you some examples of sort of what this output looks like ,\nPostdoc C: Yeah , that 's right . Middle of the word , or {disfmarker}\nPhD A: um , and see if you can in maybe incorporate it into the Transcriber tool some way , or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc C: Well , I th I 'm thinking just ch e e incorporating it into the representation .\nPhD A: Um .\nPostdoc C: I mean , if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: You mean like {disfmarker} Yeah , word start insights .\nPostdoc C: if you have start points , if you have , like , time tags ,\nPhD A: Right .\nPostdoc C: which is what I assume . Isn't that what {disfmarker} what you {disfmarker} ? Well , see , Adam would be {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah , whatever you use .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD F: I mean , we convert it to this format that the , um , NIST scoring tool unders uh , CTM . Conversation Time - Marked file . And {disfmarker} and then that 's the {disfmarker} that 's what the {disfmarker}\nGrad E: I think Transcriber , uh , outputs CTM .\nPostdoc C: If it {disfmarker} ? OK .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: So you would know this more than I would .\nGrad E: I think so .\n",
      "PhD A: So , I mean {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: It seems like she {disfmarker} if she 's g if she 's moving time marks around ,\nPhD F: Right .\nPostdoc C: since our representation in Transcriber uses time marks , it seems like there should be some way of {disfmarker} of using that {disfmarker} benefitting from that .\nGrad E: Right .\nPhD A: Yeah , it wou the advantage would just be that when you brought up a bin you would be able {disfmarker} if you were zoomed in enough in Transcriber to see all the words ,\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: you would be able to , like , have the words sort of located in time , if you wanted to do that .\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker} so if we e e even just had a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} It sounds like w we {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we almost do .\nPhD A: So .\nProfessor B: Uh , if we {disfmarker} We have two .\nPostdoc C: We have two .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Just ha uh , trying out {pause} the alignment {vocalsound} procedure that you have on that\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: you could actually get something , um {disfmarker} uh , uh , get an objective measure . Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: You mean on {disfmarker} on the hand - marked , um {disfmarker} So we {disfmarker} we only r hav I only looked at actually alignments from one meeting that we chose ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: I think MR four , just randomly , um {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Actually , not randomly .\nPhD A: Not randomly {disfmarker}\nPhD F: We knew {disfmarker} we knew that it had these insertion errors from {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It had sort of {pause} average recognition performance in a bunch of speakers\nPhD F: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: and it was a Meeting Recorder meeting . Um . But , yeah , we should try to use what you have . I did re - run recognition on your new version of MR one .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Oh , good .\nPhD A: I {disfmarker} I mean the {disfmarker} the one with Dan {pause} Ellis in it {vocalsound} and Eric .\nPostdoc C: Good ! Uh - huh . Yeah , exactly . Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad G: I don't think that was the new version .\nPhD A: Um {disfmarker} That {disfmarker} Yeah , actually it wasn't the new new , it was the medium new .\nPostdoc C: OK .\n",
      "PhD A: But {disfmarker} but we would {disfmarker} we should do the {disfmarker} the latest version .\nPostdoc C: OK .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nPhD A: It was the one from last week .\nGrad G: You {disfmarker} did you adjust the {disfmarker} the utterance times , um , for each channel ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: Yes . Yes , I did . And furthermore , I found that there were a certain number where {disfmarker} {vocalsound} not {disfmarker} not a lot , but several times I actually {vocalsound} moved an utterance from {vocalsound} Adam 's channel to Dan 's or from Dan 's to Adam 's . So there was some speaker identif And the reason was because {vocalsound} I transcribed that at a point before {disfmarker} {vocalsound} uh , before we had the multiple audio available f so I couldn't switch between the audio . I {disfmarker} I transcribed it off of the mixed channel entirely , which meant in overlaps , I was at a {disfmarker} at a terrific disadvantage .\n",
      "PhD A: Right . Right .\nPostdoc C: In addition it was before the channelized , uh , possibility was there . And finally I did it using the speakers of my , um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} of {disfmarker} you know , off the CPU on my {disfmarker} on my machine cuz I didn't have a headphone .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc C: So it @ @ , like , I mean {disfmarker} Yeah , I {disfmarker} I mean , i in retrospect {vocalsound} it would 've been good to ha {vocalsound} have got I should 've gotten a headphone . But in any case , um , thi this is {disfmarker} this was transcribed in a {disfmarker} in a , {vocalsound} uh , less optimal way than {disfmarker} than the ones that came after it , and I was able to {disfmarker} you know , an and this meant that there were some speaker identif identifications which were changes .\n",
      "Grad G: Well , I know there were some speaker labelling problems , um , after interruptions .\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Fixed that .\nGrad G: Is that what you 're referring to ? I mean , cuz there 's this one instance when , for example , you 're running down the stairs .\nPostdoc C: Oh , well {disfmarker}\nGrad G: I remember this meeting really well .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Don {disfmarker} Don has had {disfmarker} {vocalsound} He knows {disfmarker} he can just read it like a play .\n",
      "Grad G: Right . It 's a {disfmarker} Yeah , I 've {disfmarker} I 've {disfmarker} I 'm very well acquainted with this meeting .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah , I can s\nPhD A: \" And then she said , and then he said . \"\nGrad G: Yeah , I know it by heart . So , um , {vocalsound} there 's one point when you 're running down the stairs .\nPostdoc C: Uh - oh .\n",
      "Grad G: Right ? And , like , there 's an interruption . You interrupt somebody , but then there 's no line after that . For example , there 's no speaker identification after that line .\nPostdoc C: Uh - huh .\nGrad G: Is that what you 're talking about ? Or were there mislabellings as far as , like , the a Adam was {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc C: That was fixed , um , before {disfmarker} i i i I think I I think I understood that pretty {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah . Cuz I thought I let you know about that .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Thank you for mentioning . Yeah , no , tha that {disfmarker} That I think went away a couple of versions ago ,\nGrad G: Yeah . OK .\nPostdoc C: but it 's good to know .\nGrad G: But you 're actually saying that certain , uh , speakers were mis mis - identified .\nPostdoc C: Yeah . So , with {disfmarker} under {disfmarker} um , uh , listening to the mixed channel , there were times when , as surprising as that is , I got Adam 's voice confused with Dan 's and vice versa {disfmarker}\nGrad G: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc C: not for long utterances ,\nGrad G: OK .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: but jus just a couple of places ,\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: and embedde embedded in overlaps . The other thing that was w interesting to me was that I picked up a lot of , um , backchannels which were hidden in the mixed signal ,\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc C: which , you know , I mean , you c not {disfmarker} not too surprising . But the other thing that {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I hadn't thought about this , but I thou I wanted to raise this when you were {disfmarker} uh , with respect to also a strategy which might help with the alignments potentially , but that 's {disfmarker} When I was looking at these backchannels , they were turning up usually {disfmarker} {vocalsound} very often in {disfmarker} w well , I won't say \" usually \" {disfmarker} but anyway , very often , I picked them up in a channel {vocalsound} w which was the person who had asked a question . S so , like , someone says \" an and have you done the so - and - so ? \" And then there would be backchannels , but it would be the person who asked the question . Other people weren't really doing much backchannelling . And , you know , sometimes you have the {disfmarker} Yeah , uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , that 's interesting . Yeah .\nPostdoc C: I mean , i it wouldn't be perfect , but {disfmarker} but it does seem more natural to give a backchannel when {disfmarker} when you 're somehow involved in the topic ,\nPhD A: No , that 's really interesting .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: and the most natural way is for you to have initiated the topic by asking a question .\nPhD F: Well ,\nPhD A: That 's interesting .\n",
      "PhD F: I think {disfmarker} No . I think it 's {disfmarker} actually I think what 's going on is backchannelling is something that happens in two - party conversations .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: And if you ask someone a question , you essentially initiating a little two - party conversation .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Well , actu Yeah , when we looked at this {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Exactly .\n",
      "PhD F: So then you 're {disfmarker} so and then you 're expected to backchannel because the person is addressing you directly and not everybody .\nPostdoc C: Exactly . Exactly my point . An - and so this is the expectation thing that {disfmarker} uh , uh ,\nPhD F: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Right .\nPostdoc C: just the dyadic {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc C: But in addition , you know , if someone has done this analysis himself and isn't involved in the dyad , but they might also give backchannels to verify what {disfmarker} what the answer is that this {disfmarker} that the {disfmarker} the answerer 's given {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: H\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: I tell you , I say {disfmarker} I say \" uh - huh \" a lot ,\nPhD A: It 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: There you go .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , but it 's interesting cuz , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: while people are talking to each other .\nPhD A: But there are fewer {disfmarker} I think there are fewer \" uh - huhs \" .\nPostdoc C: There you go . Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: I mean , just from {disfmarker} We were looking at word frequency lists to try to find the cases that we would allow to have the reject words in between in doing the alignment . You know the ones we wouldn't constrain to be next to the other words .\nPostdoc C: Oh , yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: And \" uh - huh \" is not as frequent as it sort of would be in Switchboard , if you looked at just a word frequency list of one - word short utterances . And \" yeah \" is way up there , but not \" uh - huh \" . And so I was thinking thi it 's not like {pause} you 're being encouraged by everybody else to keep {pause} talking in the meeting . And uh , that 's all , I I 'll stop there , cuz I I think what you say makes a lot of sense .\nPostdoc C: Well , that 's right . And that would {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: But it was sort of {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Well , an And what you say is the {disfmarker} is the re uh , o other side of this , which is that , you know , so th there are lots of channels where you don't have these backchannels , w when a question has been asked and {disfmarker} and these {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right . There 's just probably less backchannelling in general ,\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . So that 's good news , really .\n",
      "PhD A: even if you consider every other person altogether one person in the meeting , but we 'll find out anyway . We were {disfmarker} I guess the other thing we 're {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} I should say is that we 're gonna , um try {disfmarker} compare this type of overlap analysis to Switchboard , where {disfmarker}\nPhD F: And\n",
      "PhD A: and CallHome , where we have both sides , so that we can try to answer this question of , you know , {vocalsound} is there really more overlap in meetings or is it just because we don't have the other channel in Switchboard\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: and we don't know what people are doing . Try to create a paper out of that .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . I mean , y y you folks have probably {pause} already told me , but were {disfmarker} were you intending to do a Eurospeech submission , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD A: Um , you mean the one due tomorrow ?\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah . Well , we 're still , like , writing the scripts for doing the research , and we will {disfmarker} Yes , we 're gonna try .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And I was telling Don , do not {pause} take this as an example of how people should work .\n",
      "Professor B: Do as I say ,\nGrad G: That 's r\nPhD A: So , {comment} we will try .\nProfessor B: don't do as I do . Yeah .\nPhD A: It 'll probably be a little late ,\nGrad E: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD A: but I 'm gonna try it .\nGrad E: It is different . In previous years , Eurospeech only had the abstract due by now , not the full paper .\nPhD A: Right .\nGrad G: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: And so all our timing was off . I 've given up on trying to do digits . I just don't think that what I have so far makes a Eurospeech paper .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , I 'm no We may be in the same position , and I figured {vocalsound} we 'll try , because that 'll at least get us to the point where we have {disfmarker} We have this really nice database format that Andreas and I were working out that {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it 's not very fancy . It 's just a ASCII line by line format , but it does give you information {disfmarker}\nPhD F: It 's the {disfmarker} it 's the spurt format .\n",
      "PhD A: It {disfmarker} Yeah , we 're calling these \" spurts \" after Chafe . I was trying to find what 's a word for {pause} a continuous region with {pause} pauses around it ?\nPostdoc C: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I know that th the Telecom people use {disfmarker} use \" spurt \" for that .\nPostdoc C: Good .\nPhD A: They do ? Oh !\nProfessor B: Yes .\nPhD F: Oh .\nPhD A: Oh .\n",
      "Professor B: And that 's {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} I was using that for a while when I was doing the rate of speech stuff ,\nPhD A: I would jus\nProfessor B: because I {disfmarker} because I looked up in some books and I found {disfmarker} OK , I wanna find a spurt {vocalsound} in which {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Ah , right ! It 's just , like , defined by the acoustics .\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker} an because {disfmarker} cuz it 's another question about how {pause} many pauses they put in between them .\nGrad E: Horrible .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: But how fast do they do {pause} the words within the spurt ?\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Well , that 's what we were calling spurt ,\nGrad E: It 's gonna {disfmarker}\nGrad G: you know \" Burst \" also ?\nGrad E: Burst .\nGrad G: Isn't \" burst \" is used also ?\n",
      "PhD A: so {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Spurt has the horrible name overloading with other {disfmarker} with hardware at ICSI .\nProfessor B: Here . Just very locally , yeah .\nPhD A: Well , well , Chafe had this wor I think it was Chafe , or somebody had a {disfmarker} the word \" spurt \" originally ,\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker} but that just {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Here @ @ {disfmarker}\nPhD A: and so I {disfmarker} But tha that 's good to know .\n",
      "Postdoc C: Actually {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Was thi it 's Chafe ?\nPostdoc C: Well , see , I know S Sue wrote about spurts of development .\nPhD F: So maybe we should talk {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Maybe it was Sue {disfmarker} ? Y\nPostdoc C: But , in any case , I think it 's a good term ,\nPhD A: So we have spurts and we have spurt - ify dot shell and spurt - ify\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: and , uh {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Hmm !\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: And ma maybe {disfmarker} maybe Chafe did .\nPhD F: Uh .\nPhD A: And then it 's got all {disfmarker} it 's a verb now .\nPostdoc C: I know {disfmarker} I know Ch - Chafe dealt with {disfmarker}\nPhD F: So s\nGrad G: That 's cool .\nPhD F: W uh , w\nPostdoc C: Chafe speaks about intonation units .\nPhD A: Yes . Right .\nPostdoc C: But maybe he speaks about spurts as well\nPhD F: We\n",
      "Postdoc C: and I just don't know . Yeah , go ahead .\nGrad E: I 've heard \" burst \" also .\nPhD F: So what we 're doing {disfmarker} uh , this {disfmarker} this is just {disfmarker} maybe someone has s some {disfmarker} some ideas about how to do it better ,\nGrad G: Mmm .\nPhD F: but we {disfmarker} So we 're taking these , uh , alignments from the individual channels . We 're {disfmarker} from each alignment we 're producing , uh , one of these CTM files ,\n",
      "Postdoc C: Great .\nPhD F: which essentially has {disfmarker} it 's just a linear sequence of words with the begin times for every word and the duration .\nPhD A: It looks like a Waves label file almost . Right ?\nPhD F: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and of course {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It 's just {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Right . But it has {disfmarker} one {disfmarker} the first column has the meeting name , so it could actually contain several meetings . Um . And the second column is the channel . Third column is the , um , start times of the words and the fourth column is the duration of the words . And then we 're , um {disfmarker} OK . Then we have a messy alignment process where we actually insert into the sequence of words the , uh , tags for , like , where {disfmarker} where sentence {disfmarker} ends of sentence , question marks , um , {vocalsound} various other things .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . These are things that we had Don {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Uh .\nPhD A: So , Don sort of , um , propagated the punctuation from the original transcriber {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right .\nPhD A: so whether it was , like , question mark or period or , {vocalsound} um , you know , comma and things like that , and we kept the {disfmarker} and disfluency dashes {disfmarker} uh , kept those in because we sort of wanna know where those are relative to the spurt overlaps {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Mm - hmm . Right .\nPhD A: sp overlaps ,\nPhD F: So {disfmarker} so those are actually sort of retro - fitted into the time alignment .\nPhD A: or {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: And then we merge all the alignments from the various channels and we sort them by time . And then there 's a {disfmarker} then there 's a process where you now determine the spurts . That is {disfmarker} Actually , no , you do that before you merge the various channels . So you {disfmarker} you id identify by some criterion , which is pause length {disfmarker} you identify the beginnings and ends of these spurts , and you put another set of tags in there to keep those straight .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD F: And then you merge everything in terms of , you know , linearizing the sequence based on the time marks . And then {vocalsound} you extract the individual channels again , but this time you know where the other people start and end talking {disfmarker} you know , where their spurts start and end . And so you extract the individual channels , uh , one sp spurt by spurt as it were . Um , and inside the words or between the words you now have begin and end {pause} tags for overlaps . So , you {disfmarker} you basically have everything sort of lined up and in a form where you can look at the individual speakers and how their speech relates to the other speakers ' speech .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nPhD A: Uh , I mean , I think that 's actually really u useful also\nPhD F: And {disfmarker}\nPhD A: because even if you weren't studying overlaps , if you wanna get a transcription for the far - field mikes , how are you gonna know which words from which speakers occurred at which times relative to each other ? You have to be able to {pause} get a transcript like {disfmarker} like this anyway , just for doing far - field recognition . So , you know , it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: I thi it 's just an issue we haven't dealt with before , how you time - align things that are overlapping anyway .\nPostdoc C: That 's wonderful .\nPhD F: So {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I mean , i I never thought about it before ,\nGrad E: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD F: And {disfmarker} and we {disfmarker}\nPhD A: but {disfmarker}\nGrad E: Y yes .\nPhD F: In {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: I mean , s when I came up with the original data {disfmarker} suggested data format based on the transcription graph , there 's capability of doing that sort of thing in there .\nPhD A: Right . But you can't get it directly from the transcription .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . Yeah , that 's right .\nPhD F: Right . Well , this is {disfmarker} this is just {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah , this is like a poor man 's ver formatting version . But it 's , you know {disfmarker} It 's clean , it 's just not fancy .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nPhD A: Um .\nPhD F: Well , there 's lots of little things . It 's like there 're twelve different scripts which you run and then at the end you have what you want . But , um , at the very last stage we throw away the actual time information . All we care about is whether {disfmarker} that there 's a certain word was overlapped by someone else 's word . So you sort of {disfmarker} at that point , you discretize things into just having overlap or no overlap . Because we figure that 's about the level of analysis that we want to do for this paper .\n",
      "Grad E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: But if you wanted to do a more fine - grained analysis and say , you know , how far into the word is the overlap , you could do that .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD F: It 's just {disfmarker} it 'll just require more {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Just {pause} sort of huge .\nPhD F: you know , slightly different {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: What 's interesting is it 's exactly what , um , i in discussing with , um , Sue about this ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: um , she , um , i i i indicated that that {disfmarker} you know , that 's very important for overlap analysis .\nPhD A: Yeah . It 's {disfmarker} it 's nice to know ,\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: and also I think as a human , like , I don't always hear these in the actual order that they occur . So I can have two foreground speakers , you know , Morgan an and {vocalsound} um , Adam and Jane could all be talking , and I could align each of them to be starting their utterance at the correct time , and then look where they are relative to each other , and that 's not really what I heard .\nPostdoc C: And that 's another thing she said .\nPhD A: Cuz it 's just hard to do .\n",
      "Postdoc C: This is {disfmarker} This is Bever 's {disfmarker} Bever 's effect ,\nPhD A: Y Yeah .\nPostdoc C: when {disfmarker} where {disfmarker} In psy ps psycho - linguistics you have these experiments where people have perceptual biases a as to what they hear ,\nPhD A: It 's sort of {disfmarker} Yeah , you sort of move things around until you get to a {pause} low information point\nPostdoc C: that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} Not the best {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: and yo then you can bring in the other person . So it 's {vocalsound} actually not even possible , I think , for any person to listen to a mixed signal , even equalize , and make sure that they have all the words in the right order . So , I guess , we 'll try to write this Eurospeech paper .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . Superb .\n",
      "PhD A: I mean , we will write it . Whether they accept it {pause} late or not , I don't know . Um , and the good thing is that we have {disfmarker} It 's sort of a beginning of what Don can use to link the prosodic features from each file to each other .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . That 's the good thing about these pape\nPhD A: So . i You know , might as well .\nPhD F: Plus , mayb\nPhD H: Hmm ?\n",
      "PhD A: We - I ju Otherwise we won't get the work done {comment} {vocalsound} on our deadline .\nPhD F: I don't know , m\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: I mean , u u Jane likes to look at data . Maybe , you know , you could {disfmarker} you could look at this format and see if you find anything interesting .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: I don't know .\nPhD A: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: No , it 's {disfmarker} that 's the good thing about these pape paper deadlines and , uh , you know , class projects , and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and things like that ,\nPostdoc C: Well , what I 'm thinking is {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Right .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc C: Well , my {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: Well th th the other thing that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that yo that you usually don't tell your graduate students is that these deadlines are actually not that , um , you know , strictly enforced ,\nProfessor B: because you {disfmarker} you really get g\nPhD A: Forces you to do the work .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Exactly .\nGrad E: Strict .\nPhD F: because {pause} the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Oh , now it 's out in the public , this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this secret information .\nPhD F: because {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: I think we can ha\nPhD F: bec b {vocalsound} Nah {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So {disfmarker}\nGrad E: No .\nProfessor B: No .\nPostdoc C: Nah .\nPhD F: i Because these {disfmarker} the conference organizers actually have an interest in getting lots of submissions .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: Right .\nPhD F: I mean , a {disfmarker} a monetary interest .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Um .\nProfessor B: Th - that 's {disfmarker} that 's true .\nPostdoc C: And good ones , good ones , which sometimes means {pause} a little extra time .\nPhD F: And good submission\nProfessor B: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Right .\nProfessor B: That 's true .\nPhD F: Well {disfmarker} That 's another issue ,\n",
      "Professor B: By th by the way , this is totally unfair , you may {disfmarker} you may feel ,\nPhD F: but {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: but the {disfmarker} the , uh {disfmarker} the morning meeting folks actually have an {disfmarker} an extra month or so .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yep .\nGrad E: Yep . The Aurora {disfmarker} there 's a special Aurora {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: When {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: There 's a special Aurora session\n",
      "PhD A: Oh .\nProfessor B: and the Aurora pe people involved in Aurora have till Ma - uh , early May {pause} or something to turn in their paper .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: Oh , well maybe we 'll submit to s {comment} {vocalsound} Actually {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Well , then you can just {disfmarker} Maybe you can submit the digits paper on e for the Aurora session .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: Oh , I could !\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I if it w\nGrad E: I could submit that to Aurora .\nProfessor B: Well {disfmarker}\nGrad E: That would be pretty {disfmarker} pretty {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: i it has {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: \nGrad E: S That wouldn't work .\nProfessor B: No , it wouldn't work .\nGrad E: It 's not Aurora .\n",
      "Professor B: It 's {disfmarker} it 's not the Aurora {disfmarker} I mean , it {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's actually the Aurora task .\nPhD A: Maybe they 'll get s\nGrad E: Aurora 's very specific .\nProfessor B: It\nPhD A: Well , maybe it won't be after this {vocalsound} deadline {pause} extension .\nPhD F: But {disfmarker} but the people {disfmarker} I mean , a {disfmarker} a paper that is not on Aurora would probably be more interesting at that point\n",
      "PhD A: Maybe they 'll {disfmarker}\nPhD F: because everybody 's so sick and tired of the Aurora task .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: Oh , I thought you meant this was just the digits section . I didn't know you meant it was Aurora digits .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Well , no . If you {disfmarker} if you have {disfmarker} it 's to {disfmarker} if you discuss some relation to the Aurora task , like if you use the same {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: This is not the Aurora task . So they just do a little grep for {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Do {disfmarker} uh , d d Do not {disfmarker} do not {disfmarker} we are not setting a good example .\nPhD F: Um . Well , a relation other than negation , maybe ,\nPhD A: This is not a {disfmarker}\nPhD F: um . So .\nPhD A: Anyway .\nPhD F: I don't know .\nPhD A: But the good thing is this does {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad E: Well , I I don't know . I mean , you could {disfmarker} you could do a paper on {pause} what 's wrong with the Aurora task by comparing it to {pause} other ways of doing it .\nPhD F: How well does an Aurora system do on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} you know , on digits collected in a {disfmarker} in this environment ?\nPhD H: \nGrad E: Different way . Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Maybe .\nPhD F: Maybe .\nGrad E: Pretty hokey .\n",
      "Professor B: I think it 's a littl little far - fetched . Nah , I mean , the thing is Aurora 's pretty closed community .\nGrad E: Yep .\nProfessor B: I mean , you know , the people who were involved in the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the only people who are allowed to test on that are people who {disfmarker} who made it above a certain threshold in the first round ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: It 's very specific .\n",
      "Professor B: uh {vocalsound} w in ninety - nine and it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of a {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} not like a {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Well , that 's maybe why they don't f know that they have a crummy system . I mean , a crummy back - end . No , I mean {disfmarker} I mean , seriously , if you {disfmarker} if you have a very {disfmarker} No , I 'm sorry .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh , {comment} \" beep \" {vocalsound} \" bee \"\nGrad E: I mean , th\nPhD F: No . I didn't mean anybody {disfmarker} any particular system . I meant this H T K back - end .\nProfessor B: Oh , you don't like HTK ?\nPhD F: If they {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPhD F: I don't h I don't have any stock in HTK or Entropic or anything .\n",
      "Professor B: No . I mean , this {disfmarker} it it 's the HTK {pause} that is trained on a very limited amount of data .\nGrad E: It 's d it 's very specific .\nPhD F: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: But so , if you {disfmarker} But maybe you should , you know , consider more {disfmarker} using more data , or {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Oh , yeah . I {disfmarker} I really think that that 's true . And they i i\n",
      "PhD F: If yo if you sort of hermetically stay within one task and don't look left and right , then you 're gonna {disfmarker}\nGrad E: But they {disfmarker} they had {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: i But {disfmarker}\nGrad E: They had something very specific in mind when they designed it . Right ?\nProfessor B: Well , u i\nPhD F: Right .\n",
      "Grad E: And so {disfmarker} so you can {disfmarker} you can argue about maybe that wasn't the right thing to do , but , you know , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they had something specific .\nProfessor B: But , one of the reasons I have Chuck 's messing around with {disfmarker} with the back - end that you 're not supposed to touch {disfmarker} I mean , for the evaluations , yes , we 'll run a version that hasn't been touched .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But , uh , one of the reasons I have him messing around with that , because I think it 's sort of an open question that we don't know the answer to . People always say very glibly {vocalsound} that i if you s show improvement on a bad system , that doesn't mean anything , cuz it may not be {disfmarker} {vocalsound} show {disfmarker} uh , because , you know , it doesn't tell you anything about the good system .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And I {disfmarker} I 've always sort of felt that that depends . You know , that if some peopl If you 're actually are getting at something that has some {pause} conceptual substance to it , it will port .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And in fact , most methods that people now use were originally tried with something that was not their absolute {pause} best system at some level . But of course , sometimes it doesn't , uh , port . So I think that 's {disfmarker} that 's an interesting question . If we 're getting {pause} three percent error on , uh , u uh , English , uh , nati native speakers , {vocalsound} um , using the Aurora system , and we do some improvements and bring it from three to two , {vocalsound} do those same improvements bring , uh , th you know , the SRI system from one point three to {disfmarker} you know , to {vocalsound} point eight ?\n",
      "PhD F: Hmm . Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Zero .\nProfessor B: Well . You know , so that 's {disfmarker} that 's something we can test .\nPhD F: Mmm . Right .\nProfessor B: So . Anyway .\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor B: I think we 've {disfmarker} {vocalsound} we 've covered that one up extremely well .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\nPhD F: Whew !\n",
      "Professor B: OK . So , um {disfmarker} Yeah . So tha so we 'll {disfmarker} you know , maybe you guys 'll have {disfmarker} have one . Uh , you {disfmarker} you and , uh {disfmarker} and Dan have {disfmarker} have a paper that {disfmarker} that 's going in .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: You know , that 's {disfmarker} that 's pretty solid , on the segmentation {pause} stuff .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah . I will send you the {disfmarker} the final version ,\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . And the Aurora folks here will {disfmarker} will definitely get something in on Aurora ,\nPhD D: which is not {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Actually this {disfmarker} this , um {disfmarker} So , there 's another paper .\nProfessor B: so .\nPhD F: It 's a Eurospeech paper but not related to meetings . But it 's on digits . So , um , uh , a colleague at SRI developed a improved version of MMIE training .\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD F: And he tested it mostly on digits because it 's sort of a {disfmarker} you know , it doesn't take weeks to train it .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "PhD F: Um . And got some very impressive results , um , with , you know , discriminative , uh , Gaussian training . Um , you know , like , um , error rates {pause} go from {disfmarker} I don't know , in very noisy environment , like from , uh , uh {disfmarker} I for now I {disfmarker} OK , now I have the order of magnit I 'm not sure about the order of magnitude . Was it like from ten percent to {vocalsound} eight percent or from e e you know , point {disfmarker} you know , from one percent to point eight percent ?\n",
      "Professor B: H i it got {disfmarker} it got better .\nPhD F: I mean , it 's a {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: It got better . That 's the important thing .\nGrad E: Hey , that 's the same percent relative ,\nPhD F: Yeah . But it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad E: so {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah . Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: It 's , uh , something in {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad E: Twenty percent relative gain .\n",
      "PhD F: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Um , {vocalsound} let 's see . I think the only thing we had left was {disfmarker} unless somebody else {disfmarker} Well , there 's a couple things . Uh , one is {pause} anything that , um , {vocalsound} anybody has to say about Saturday ? Anything we should do in prep for Saturday ? Um {disfmarker} I guess everybody knows about {disfmarker} I mean , u um , Mari was asking {disfmarker} was trying to come up with something like an agenda and we 're sort of fitting around people 's times a bit . But , um , {vocalsound} clearly when we actually get here we 'll {pause} move things around this , as we need to , but {disfmarker} so you can't absolutely count on it .\n",
      "PhD D: OK .\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Are we meeting in here probably or {disfmarker} ? OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . That was my thought .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I think this is {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Are we recording it ?\nPhD A: We won't have enough microphones ,\nProfessor B: \nPhD A: but {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: u No . I {disfmarker} I hadn't in intended to .\nPhD A: There 's no way .\n",
      "Professor B: We won we wanna {disfmarker} I mean , they 're {disfmarker} there 's gonna be , uh , Jeff , Katrin , Mari and two students .\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor B: So there 's five {pause} from there .\nGrad E: And Brian .\nProfessor B: And Brian 's coming ,\nPhD F: But you know th\nProfessor B: so that 's six .\nGrad E: And plus all of us .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Can use the Oprah mike .\n",
      "PhD A: Depends how fast you can {pause} throw it .\nGrad E: It seems like too many {disfmarker} too much coming and going .\nPhD A: It 's just {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: We don't even have enough channel {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Because it would be a different kind of meeting ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: that 's what I 'm {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD F: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I hadn't {pause} really thought of it ,\nPhD F: Maybe just {disfmarker} maybe not the whole day\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker}\nPhD F: but just , you know , maybe some {disfmarker} I mean ,\nProfessor B: Maybe part of it .\nPhD F: part of it ?\nProfessor B: Maybe part of it .\nGrad E: Make everyone read digits .\nProfessor B: At the same time .\nPhD A: At the same time .\nGrad E: At the same time .\nPhD F: Please .\nPhD H: \nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: We c\nProfessor B: I don't know .\nPhD A: That 's their initiation into our\nProfessor B: Any\nPhD A: w\nGrad E: Into our {disfmarker} our {disfmarker} our cult .\nPhD A: Yeah , our {disfmarker} Yeah , our {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Maybe the sections that are not right afte you know , after lunch when everybody 's still munching and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So can you send out a schedule once you know it , jus ?\nProfessor B: OK . Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Is {disfmarker} is there a r ?\nProfessor B: OK . Yeah . I guess I sent it around a little bit .\nPhD A: There 's a res Is it changed now , or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor B: But {disfmarker} I hadn't heard back from Mari after I {disfmarker} I u u uh , brought up the point abou about Andreas 's schedule . So , {vocalsound} um , maybe when I get back there 'll be {pause} some {disfmarker} some mail from her .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: So , I 'll make a {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: I 'm looking forward to seeing your representation . That 'd be , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: And w we should get {pause} the two meetings from y\nPostdoc C: I 'd like to see that . Yeah .\nPhD A: I mean , I know about the first meeting , um , but the other one that you did , the NSA one , which we {pause} hadn't done cuz we weren't running recognition on it , because the non - native speaker {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: there were five non - native speakers .\nPostdoc C: Mm - hmm . I see . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: But , it would be useful for the {disfmarker} to see what we get {pause} with that one . So .\nPostdoc C: Great . OK . It 's , uh , two thousand eleven twenty - one one thousand .\nPhD A: Yeah , three . Right . So {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Great . I sent email when I finished the {disfmarker} that one .\nPhD A: N S A three , I think .\n",
      "Postdoc C: That was sort of son Yeah , that 's right . That 's right . That 's much simpler .\nPhD A: I don't know what they said but I know the number .\nProfessor B: Th - that part 's definitely gonna confuse somebody who looks at these later .\nPhD F: Right .\nProfessor B: I mean , this is {disfmarker} we we 're recording secret NSA meetings ?\nPhD F: Um . Not the {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I mean , it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah . Not that NSA .\n",
      "PhD F: Uh . The {disfmarker} th the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: They are hard to understand .\nProfessor B: It 's network services and applications .\nPhD F: Wait .\nPhD A: They 're very , uh , out there .\nPhD F: The {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I have no idea what they 're talking about .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD F: The , um {disfmarker} th the other good thing about the alignments is that , um , it 's not always the machine 's fault if it doesn't work . So , you can actually find , um ,\n",
      "PhD A: It 's the person 's fault .\nPhD F: problem {disfmarker} uh , proble\nPhD A: It 's Morgan 's fault .\nPhD F: You can find {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: It 's always Morgan 's fault .\nPhD F: You can find , uh , problems with {disfmarker} with the transcripts , um , you know ,\nGrad E: Oh .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD F: and go back and fix them .\n",
      "PhD A: Tha - There are some cases like where the {disfmarker} the wrong speaker {disfmarker} uh , these ca Not a lot , but where the {disfmarker} the wrong person {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the speech is addre attached to the wrong speaker\nPhD F: But {disfmarker}\nPhD A: and you can tell that when you run it . Or at least you can get {pause} clues to it .\nPostdoc C: Interesting .\nPhD A: So these are from the early transcriptions that people did on the mixed signals , like what you have .\n",
      "Postdoc C: I guess it does w Mm - hmm . It also raises the possibility of , um , using that kind of representation {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know , this 'd be something we 'd wanna check , {comment} but maybe using that representation for data entry and then displaying it on the channelized , uh , representation , cuz it {disfmarker} I think that the {disfmarker} I mean , my {disfmarker} my preference in terms of , like , looking at the data is to see it {pause} in this kind of musical score format .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc C: And also , s you know , Sue 's preference as well .\nPhD A: Yeah , if you can get it to {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} but , I mean , this {disfmarker} if this is a better interface for making these kinds of , uh , you know , lo clos local changes , then that 'd be fine , too . I don't {disfmarker} I have no idea . I think this is something that would need to be checked . Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: OK . Th - the other thing I had actually was , I {disfmarker} I didn't realize this till today , but , uh , this is , uh , Jose 's last day .\nGrad E: Yeah .\nPhD H: Is my last {disfmarker} my last day .\nPhD A: Oh !\nPostdoc C: Oh .\nPhD F: Oh !\nGrad E: You 're not gonna be here tomorrow ?\nPhD H: My {disfmarker} {vocalsound} my last meeting {pause} about meetings .\nGrad E: Oh , that 's right . Tomorrow {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah .\nPhD D: The last meeting meeting ?\nPhD H: Because , eh , I leave , eh , the next Sunday .\nGrad E: It 's off .\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD H: I will come back to home {disfmarker} to Spain .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Oh .\nProfessor B: I d so I {disfmarker} I jus\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD H: And I {disfmarker} I would like to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to say thank you very much , eh , to all people {pause} in the group and at ICSI ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad E: Yeah . It was good having you .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD H: because I {disfmarker} I enjoyed @ @ very much ,\nPhD F: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD H: uh . And I 'm sorry by the result of overlapping , because , eh , {vocalsound} I haven't good results , eh , yet but , eh , {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I pretend {comment} to {disfmarker} to continuing out to Spain , eh , during the {disfmarker} the following months ,\nProfessor B: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD H: eh , because I have , eh , another ideas but , eh , I haven't enough time to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} with six months it 's not enough to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to {disfmarker} to research ,\nGrad E: Yep .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD H: eh , and e i I mean , if , eh , the topic is , eh , so difficult , uh , in my opinion , there isn't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . Maybe somebody else will come along and will be , uh , interested in working on it and could start off from where you are also , you know . They 'd make use of {disfmarker} of what you 've done .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah . But , eh , I {disfmarker} I will try to recommend , eh , at , eh , {vocalsound} the Spanish government but , eh , the following @ @ scholarship , eh , eh , {vocalsound} eh , will be here {pause} more time , because eh , i in my opinion is {disfmarker} is better , {vocalsound} eh , for us {pause} to {disfmarker} to spend more time here and to work more time i i in a topic .\nProfessor B: Yeah , it 's a very short time .\n",
      "PhD H: No ? But , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad E: Yeah , six months is hard .\nPhD H: Yeah . It is .\nGrad E: I think a year is a lot better .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD H: It 's difficult . You {disfmarker} e you have , eh {disfmarker} you are lucky , and you {disfmarker} you find a solution {comment} in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in some few tim uh , months , eh ? OK . But , eh , I think it 's not , eh , common . But , eh , anyway , thank you . Thank you very much . Eh , I {disfmarker} I bring the chocolate , eh , to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} to tear , uh , with {disfmarker} with you ,\n",
      "PhD A: Oh .\nPostdoc C: Ah .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPostdoc C: Nice .\nPhD H: uh . I {disfmarker} I hope if you need , eh , something , eh , from us in the future , I {disfmarker} I will be at Spain , {vocalsound} to you help , uh .\nProfessor B: Well .\nGrad E: Great .\nPostdoc C: Great .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Thank you , Jose .\nPostdoc C: Thank you .\nPhD H: And , thank you very much .\nPhD F: Have a good trip .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD F: Keep in touch .\nPhD H: Thank you .\nProfessor B: Yeah . OK . I guess , uh , unless somebody has something else , we 'll read {disfmarker} read our digits\nGrad E: Digits ?\nProfessor B: and we 'll get our {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Uh .\nProfessor B: get our last bit of , uh , Jose 's {disfmarker} Jose {disfmarker} Jose 's digit {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Oops .\nGrad E: Are we gonna do them simultaneously or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD H: You {disfmarker} eh {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Uh , I 'm sorry ?\nPhD H: Ye - ye you prefer , eh , to eat , eh , chocolate , eh , at the coffee break , eh , at the {disfmarker} ? {vocalsound} Or you prefer now , before after {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc C: Well , we have a time {disfmarker}\nPhD F: No , we prefer to keep it for ourselves .\nPhD D: During {disfmarker}\nPostdoc C: Well , we have a s a time {disfmarker} time constraint .\n",
      "PhD F: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD D: during digits .\nProfessor B: So keep it away from that end of the table .\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPhD A: Why is it that I can read your mind ?\nPostdoc C: Yeah .\nGrad E: Well , we 've gotta wait until after di after we take the mikes off .\nPhD D: No , no .\nGrad E: So are we gonna do digits simultaneously\nPhD A: You {disfmarker} This is our reward if we {pause} do our digi\nProfessor B: Well ? Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc C: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad E: or what ?\nPhD D: Simultaneous digit chocolate task .\nPhD H: I {disfmarker} I think , eh , it 's enough , eh , for more peopl for more people {pause} after .\nProfessor B: We 're gonna {disfmarker} we 're gonna do digits at the same {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD F: Mmm !\nPostdoc C: That 's nice .\nPhD H: But , eh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Oh , thanks , Jose .\nProfessor B: Um .\nPostdoc C: Wow .\nPhD H: To Andreas , the idea is {disfmarker} is good . {vocalsound} s To eat here .\nProfessor B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPostdoc C: Wow . Very nice .\nPhD F: Oh .\nPhD A: Oh , wow .\nProfessor B: Tha - that 's {disfmarker} that looks great .\nPhD F: Oh , yeah . Th - it doesn't {disfmarker} it won't leave this room .\n",
      "Professor B: Alright , so in the interest of getting to the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: We could do digits while other people eat .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: So it 's background crunching .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: We don't have background chewing .\nPostdoc C: Nice .\nPhD H: Is , eh , a {disfmarker} another acoustic event .\nPhD D: Background crunch . Yeah .\nPhD A: No , we don't have any data with background eating .\nPhD F: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: I 'm serious . You\nProfessor B: She 's {disfmarker} she 's serious .\nPhD A: I am serious .\nGrad E: It 's just the rest of the digits {disfmarker} the rest of the digits are very clean ,\nProfessor B: She is serious .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: Well {disfmarker} ?\nPhD H: Are you {disfmarker} ? Oh , they 're clean .\nPhD D: Yeah !\nGrad E: um , without a lot of background noise ,\n",
      "PhD A: And it {disfmarker} You have to write down , like , while y what you 're {disfmarker} what ch chocolate you 're eating\nGrad E: so I 'm just not sure {disfmarker}\nPhD A: cuz they might make different sounds , like n nuts {disfmarker} chocolate with nuts , chocolate without nuts .\nPostdoc C: Oh .\nProfessor B: Um {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Crunchy frogs .\nPhD F: Chocolate adaptation .\n",
      "Professor B: Actually {disfmarker} {vocalsound} actually kind of careful cuz I have a strong allergy to nuts , so I have to sort of figure out one without th\nPhD A: That w Oh , yeah , they {disfmarker} they might .\nProfessor B: It 's hard to {disfmarker} hard to say .\nPhD A: Maybe those ? They 're so {disfmarker} I don't know .\nProfessor B: I don't know . Um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: This is {disfmarker} You know , this is a different kind of speech ,\n",
      "Professor B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD H: Take {disfmarker} take several .\nPhD A: looking at chocolates , deciding {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: you know , it 's another style .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I may {disfmarker} I may hold off .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nProfessor B: But if I was {disfmarker} eh , but maybe I 'll get some later . Thanks .\nPhD F: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: Well {disfmarker} well , why don't we {disfmarker} ? He {disfmarker} he 's worried about a ticket . Why don't we do a simultaneous one ?\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: Simultaneous one ?\nPostdoc C: OK .\nGrad E: OK .\nPhD F: Mmm .\nPhD A: And you laughed at me , too , f the first time I said that .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad E: Remember to read the transcript number , please .\nPhD F: Right .\nPhD H: OK .\nProfessor B: I have to what ?\nPhD D: Oops .\n",
      "PhD H: Yeah .\nPhD A: You laughed at me , too , the first time I sa said {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I did ,\nPhD A: You really shouldn't , uh , te\nProfessor B: and now I love it so much .\nGrad E: OK , everyone ready ?\nPhD A: You have to sort of , um {disfmarker} Jose , if you haven't done this , you have to plug your ears while you 're t talking\n",
      "Professor B: W wait {disfmarker} wait a minute {disfmarker} wait a minute . W we want {disfmarker} we want {disfmarker}\nPhD A: so that you don't get confused , I guess .\nProfessor B: we want it synchronized .\nPhD A: Yeah . Oh , you 've done this one before ?\nPostdoc C: Hey , you 've done this before . Haven't you ?\nPhD H: Yeah .\nPhD D: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Together ?\n",
      "Postdoc C: You 've read {pause} digits together with us , haven't you {disfmarker} I mean , at the same time ?\nPhD A: I 'm not {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} Oh , and you haven't done this either .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPostdoc C: Oh , you haven't !\nPhD H: No .\nPostdoc C: Oh , OK .\nPhD D: Oh , yeah .\nPhD A: I the first time is {pause} traumatic ,\nProfessor B: We\nPhD A: but {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Y {vocalsound} Yeah , bu\nPostdoc C: Oh , and the groupings are important ,\nPhD H: Mmm .\nPostdoc C: so yo you 're supposed to pause between the groupings .\nPhD H: The grouping .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: OK . So , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD F: You mean that the {disfmarker} the grouping is supposed to be synchronized ?\nProfessor B: No , no .\nPostdoc C: No .\nGrad E: Yeah , sure .\nPhD F: No ?\nPhD A: That 'd be good .\n",
      "Professor B: Synchronized digits .\nPostdoc C: No .\nPhD F: No ?\nPhD A: We - we 'll give everybody the same sheet\nPhD F: It 's like a {disfmarker} like a Greek {disfmarker} like a Greek choir ?\nPhD A: but they say different {disfmarker}\nPhD F: You know ?\nProfessor B: Yes .\nGrad E: Hey , what a good idea .\nPhD F: Like {disfmarker}\nGrad E: We could do the same sheet for everyone .\nPhD F: Yeah .\nGrad E: Have them all read them at once .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , different digits\nPhD D: Eh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: but same groupings .\nGrad E: Or {disfmarker} or just same digits .\nPhD A: So they would all be {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPostdoc C: Yeah . That 'd be good .\nGrad E: See if anyone notices .\nProfessor B: There 's so many possibilities .\nPostdoc C: And then {disfmarker} then we can sing them next time .\nProfessor B: Uh . OK , why don't we go ? Uh , one two three {disfmarker} Go !\n"
    ],
    "length": 27654,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 77,
    "question": "Summarize the whole meeting.",
    "answer": "This was meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVD-19 Pandemic. Firstly, members were given the chance to present their petitions. Secondly, the meeting proceeded to statements by some members. The third part, the major section, was the questioning of ministers. These questions were closely related to the Canadian government and society during the pandemic period. To be more specific, they included economic updates, systemic racism, the impact of international affairs, financial issues, the situation of veterans and the disabled, and employment and work situation nationwide.",
    "docs": [
      "The Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota (NipissingTimiskaming, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic. A reminder to all members that in order to avoid issues with sound, members participating in person should not also be connected to the video conference. For those joining via video conference, I would like to remind you that, when speaking, you should be on the same channel as the language you are speaking. As usual, please direct your remarks through the chair. I understand we don't have any ministerial announcements today, so we'll proceed to presenting petitions. I would like to remind members that any petition presented during a meeting of the special committee must have already been certified by the clerk of petitions. For members participating in person, we ask that they please come and drop the signed certificate off at the table once the petition is presented. The first petition will be presented by Ms.May.\n",
      "Ms. Elizabeth May (SaanichGulf Islands, GP): Mr. Chair, it's an honour to rise in meeting number 22 of the COVID-19 committee, otherwise known as something like the House of Commons. I'm here to present two petitions containing hundreds of signatures on the issue of the treatment of Falun Gong practitioners by the People's Republic of China, particularly the practice that's alleged of involuntary organ harvesting. The petitioners ask the Government of Canada to condemn this practice and to publicly call for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong in the People's Republic of China. The second petition is from residents throughout SaanichGulf Islands concerned about what was, at the time this petition was submitted, a future problem. It remains an issue, and I present it on behalf of petitioners who wish the Government of Canada not to put public funds into purchasing or maintaining the Trans Mountain pipeline or towards any expansion of the pipeline.\n",
      "The Chair: Next we'll go to Ms. Kwan.\n",
      "Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP): Mr. Chair, I rise to table two petitions. The first petition deals with the COVID-19 situation. The petitioners note the pandemic is having a devastating impact on many Canadians nationwide, especially those who have low to modest income, small business gig workers, freelancers, artists, film industry workers, non-salaried workers and individuals on fixed incomes such as seniors and those on disability. It further notes that rent, mortgage and utility payments are due at the end of each month, putting countless Canadians at risk of losing their housing. It is paramount there be safe self-isolation opportunities for all individuals in this country. To that end, the petitioners are calling for the government to immediately enact a nationwide rent freeze, eviction freeze, mortgage freeze and utility freeze, enforce mortgage deferrals for homeowners without penalty or interest charges from financial institutions and provide direct assistance in the form of a monthly, universal, direct payment of $2,000 per month for all, with an additional $250 per child immediately. The second petition deals with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. These petitioners join the hundreds of thousands of people who are opposed to the expansion. Trans Mountain, in building the pipeline, brings massive environmental and economic risk with no substantial benefit to British Columbia or to local residents. Approximately 40,000 barrels of oil have already leaked from existing Kinder Morgan pipelines, including two major spills in Burnaby since 2007. I might note, Mr. Chair, that just this past weekend there was yet another spill to the tune of 1,195 barrels here in British Columbia. There is no known scientific technology to clean up the bitumen when there is a spill, and the number of tankers would go from eight to 34 per month into the Burrard Inlet. It puts at risk many residential neighbourhoods and the traditional territories of at least 15 first nations.\n",
      "The Chair: May I interrupt for a moment, Ms. Kwan. I want to remind all members in the House that when presenting a petition, the idea is to be as concise as possible. Ms. Kwan, I'll let you wrap up, please.\nMs. Jenny Kwan: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The petitioners are calling for the government to immediately act to prevent this new oil pipeline from proceeding through British Columbia.\nThe Chair: Thank you. We'll now go to Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood ParkFort Saskatchewan, CPC): Mr. Chair, I have four petitions to present today. The first petition reflects the outrage of my constituents at the ever-expanding order in council from the government banning more and more firearms. In particular, the petitioners highlight the failure of the government to act on the issue of illegal guns. The petitioners note that virtually all violent crimes committed in Canada, including the recent shooting in Nova Scotia, involve illegal firearms in the hands of those who are already not permitted to possess them. The petition has two asks. First of all, it asks that we reverse the order in council banning certain firearms, but also that we propose measures that will effectively address the illegal use of firearms by criminals while respecting the rights of law-abiding citizens. It also asks that we ensure that substantial changes to firearms laws in future actually be made by Parliament, not by the government acting in an unaccountable manner. The second petition deals with Bill C-8, which is the government's bill around conversion therapy. The petitioners support efforts to ban conversion therapy. They express concern about problems in the wording of the definition used in the legislation. They're asking the government to support amendments to fix the definition to address the issue of conversion therapy and ensure that the definition is correct and doesn't criminalize certain forms of counselling that individuals may voluntarily enter into. The third petition is regarding Bill S-204, a bill in the Senate that seeks to make it a criminal offence for a person to go abroad to receive an organ without consent, dealing especially with the horrific practice of forced organ harvesting and trafficking in China. The petitioners are supportive of Bill S-204 and want to see it move forward. The final petition is with respect to Bill C-7. There's been much discussion in this House about the need to do better in terms of long-term care. Rather than working to do better in long-term care, unfortunately we've seen the government removing vital safeguards in the area of euthanasia. I think our focus should be on assisting life rather than removing safeguards that are required in association with the euthanasia regime. The petitioners are particularly concerned about the government's plan to remove a 10-day reflection period that normally takes place. That period can already be waived under certain circumstances, but Bill C-7 proposes to remove it entirely as well as reduce the number of witnesses involved. The petitioners are quite concerned about what's going on in Bill C-7 and call for it to be stopped or amended.\n",
      "The Chair: Presenting petitions. We'll proceed to statements by members. We'll start off with Mr. Manly.\n",
      "Mr. Paul Manly (NanaimoLadysmith, GP): Mr. Chair, we are in the midst of a global pandemic and an economic shock. Recent events have ripped open the wound of systemic racism in our country. Racialized and marginalized communities have been disproportionally affected by the pandemic. Thousands of seniors in long-term care facilities have died. It is clear that we need system change. In the past, governments have bailed out banks and corporations because they were too big to fail. It is time to bail out humanity and the planet. No one will be immune from the threat of climate change and mass extinction. Both are the result of the exploitation of the natural world in the name of the economy. Humans created the economy. We can choose to change it. We must protect our environment or perish. COVID-19 has demonstrated that together we can take courageous action for the common good. We need to do the same for the climate crisis, because humanity and our planet are too big to fail.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Spengemann.\n",
      "Mr. Sven Spengemann (MississaugaLakeshore, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, today marks World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. Underestimated and under-reported, elder abuse exists across the world. At risk of neglect and assault, many of the most vulnerable older persons reside in our long-term care facilities. They are the seniors who have built our country and shaped our communities, who have shown us resilience, courage and selflessness, who have made us stronger, and whose work and teachings continue to inspire us. They are parents and grandparents, brothers and sisters, friends and mentors. We have not been there for them in the same way they've been there for us throughout their lives. The Canadian Forces report, alongside the climbing disproportionate death toll in our long-term care facilities, has reconfirmed the ugly, indefensible reality of elder abuse and neglect in Canada. In my community, we mourn the deaths of 68 seniors from one long-term care facility alone, Camilla Care. We must make the same unwavering commitment to older persons as they have shown to us. We must protect and uphold their human rights. We must do better.\n",
      "The Chair: Before proceeding, I just want to bring up to the members in the background that we want to keep it as simple and as parliamentary as possible in keeping it neutral. We'll now move to Mr. Barrett.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Barrett (LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC): During these trying times, the residents of LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes have risen to the challenge. They've made sacrifices and gone above and beyond to make the lives of their neighbours better and to keep our communities safe. It would be impossible to list everyone who has emerged as a community hero, but I'd like to highlight a few, like Lily, an eight-year-old from Elgin who raised funds for her local food bank by building and selling squirrel picnic tables, and Louise Boardman from Spencerville who's making masks for long-term care facilities and selling others in support of the Breast Cancer Action centre. The Knights of Columbus in Prescott raised funds and are distributing some $27,000 in support of charitable groups throughout the region. The Knights of Columbus in Kemptville are working overtime operating the local food bank. Who can forget our top-notch health care workers like Hannah and Mary at the Brockville COVID-19 testing centre? It is the people of LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes that make it so great. To everyone working to make a difference and to all of our essential workers, thank you.\n",
      "The Chair: Next is Mr. Anandasangaree.\n",
      "Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (ScarboroughRouge Park, Lib.): Mr. Chair, the Indian Act enshrined racism into Canadian law in 1876, and, through residential schools, the child welfare system, our legal system and our police, we criminalized and tore apart indigenous peoples. The deaths of Chantel Moore and Rodney Levi and the assault on Chief Allan Adam are recent examples of systemic racism within the RCMP. Sadly, the RCMP leadership has failed to acknowledge this reality and its root causes. These same systems negatively impact black Canadians. Anti-black racism has resulted in more young black men being jailed, children being streamed or excluded from schools and negative police interaction due to profiling. Black lives matter. No single Canadian is responsible for the prevalence of systemic racism; we all are. Collectively we build institutions that discriminate based on race. It is now time to reimagine and rework our institutions, starting with our police, to ensure that all Canadians can achieve their truest potential.\n",
      "The Chair: Ms.Larouche, you have the floor.\n",
      "Ms. Andranne Larouche (Shefford, BQ): Thank you, Mr.Chair. June15 is World Elder Abuse Awareness Day. I want to remind members of the link between abuse and the problems of economic dependency among seniors. Improving their purchasing power means reducing the risk of them falling victim to abusive people. That's why the increase in the old age security benefit and the guaranteed income supplement must be extended beyond the pandemic. In three weeks, our seniors will receive their first cheque, when they should be receiving their second. A date must also be announced for the new horizons for seniors program, which helps several groups develop projects to break the isolation of seniors. In closing, I would like to mention the organization Justice alternative et mdiation that during the pandemic, along with other organizations in Shefford, has set up the project Une histoire pour la tienne, which also serves to mark this day. It's a virtual meeting between young people and seniors, allowing them to exchange some inspiring life experiences. Since age prejudice is very much present, I applaud this project, which aims to make us understand each other better and judge each other less.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr. Sangha.\n",
      "Mr. Ramesh Sangha (Brampton Centre, Lib.): Mr. Chair, in the time of this terrible crisis affecting all Canadians, when we are all thinking about how best to deal with it, let's all think about the people around us. Let's show our representation not only to those in the sector of sanctioned workers, but also to all those Canadians who day by day stand up and make a difference. Every day I am proud of the reactions of Canadians to this crisis. I want to acknowledge and celebrate all the contributions made by the people of Brampton Centre, all religious institutions, civil society and community organizations like Knights Table in my riding. We are all standing together to fight COVID-19. Let's continue working hard with that same spirit to get positive results out. Thank you very much.\n",
      "The Chair: I will proceed to Mr. Ruff.\n",
      "Mr. Alex Ruff (BruceGreyOwen Sound, CPC): Mr. Chair, whether graduating from elementary school, high school, Georgian College or graduating from colleges or universities across the country, I am proud of the accomplishments of all the graduates across BruceGreyOwen Sound. I would also like to congratulate and thank all the teachers and parents who have adapted to teaching online or from home and who have supported these graduates over the course of their academic careers. I'd like to extend special congratulations to Cameron Lovell, who just graduated from grade eight, as well as to Neebeesh and Neebin Elliott, originally from the Nawash unceded first nation on the Bruce Peninsula, who will be headed to Michigan State University, and to Jared Lumley from Owen Sound, who just graduated from my alma mater, the Royal Military College of Canada. The college motto of Truth, Duty, Valour is something all Canadians should aspire to live by. I wish all the best to these graduates on their next adventures. I and Canada cannot wait to see how their dreams and goals impact and change the world. I congratulate BruceGreyOwen Sound graduates.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now go to Mr.Cormier.\n",
      "Mr. Serge Cormier (AcadieBathurst, Lib.): Today I pay tribute to RichardLosier, an entrepreneur, visionary and builder who died on June9, 2020, surrounded by his family. Mr.Losier is a giant in the Acadian Peninsula business community. In1968, he co-founded St.Isidore Asphalte, a company that now has more than 200employees. He also launched many other businesses over the years. He was unifying and generous, a philanthropist who cared about young people and never missed an opportunity to improve their lives. I met Mr.Losier when I was 14years old, and I can say that he has been a positive influence in my life. Every time I met him, he gave me a lot of advice and encouragement, which I've never forgotten. Mr.Losier's legacy to his community is invaluable. His commitment remains an example for all of us to follow. Mr.Losier now joins his wife, Nolla. I offer my most sincere condolences to his children, Richard Jr., Ronald, Nathalie, Caroline and Stphane, and to his family and friends. Rest in peace, Mr.Losier. You will be greatly missed. Thank you for everything you've done for our region.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Dabrusin.\n",
      "Ms. Julie Dabrusin (TorontoDanforth, Lib.): Hello from my community in east end Toronto. People talk about how a city the size of Toronto can be cold, but that's far from the truth in my community. I want to give a shout-out to our teachers, like Mr. Wong of Earl Grey Senior Public School, who delivered home-baked cookies and handwritten notes to all of his students, or Monsieur Steve, who's offering online French classes, or the teachers of Riverdale Collegiate, who paraded through our streets to celebrate our graduates. Our local Michael Garron Hospital put out a call for community members to sew masks and received over 60,000 masks, including those made by Lisa Tancre of Chartwell Avondale Retirement Residence. Michelle Beaton organized a front window scavenger hunt to entertain children and their families. Restaurants, even while facing adversity, have been generously donating food, like the members of the Leslieville BIA or Mezes. There are so many more stories of generosity that I could share, but I'm out of time. I thank everyone who has stepped up. We all appreciate all of their hard work.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now go to Ms. Sahota.\n",
      "Ms. Jag Sahota (Calgary Skyview, CPC): Mr. Chair, on Saturday night, Calgarians, particularly those in the northeast, in my riding of Calgary Skyview, witnessed a devastating storm, the likes of which I have not seen in my lifetime. Homes, vehicles, community buildings and structures suffered significant damage due to large hail, floods and high winds. People acted quickly to seek shelter. I'm so grateful that there have been no reports of personal injury or loss of life. I went around the community yesterday to survey the damage. It is extensive. My heart aches for those who have been impacted by the storm in an already incredibly difficult time, but we are resilient. We know that in the coming weeks there will be a lot of cleanup required, both to personal property and in the community. I know my constituents, and we will help one another get through this together. I will work hard to do everything I can to help rebuild this community.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr.Serr, you have the floor.\nMr. Marc Serr (Nickel Belt, Lib.): Thank you, Mr.Chair. I'd like to express my sincere gratitude to the people of West Nippissing who organized Pride activities to celebrate the LGBTQ community in June. This week, we are also celebrating National Public Service Week. I thank the public servants for their dedication to the Nickel Belt community and the Valley East and Rayside-Balfour areas.\nThe Chair: Next is Mr. Saroya.\n",
      "Mr. Bob Saroya (MarkhamUnionville, CPC): Mr. Chair, when COVID-19 began spreading across Ontario, Markham, like many other communities, was unprepared. Our front-line health care workers did not have enough personal protective equipment to do their jobs safely. When Markham residents heard about these shortages, my office was flooded with calls from people who had PPE and wanted to donate. Since then my office has been able to deliver tens of thousands of PPE supplies to front-line health care workers and five masks to each family in need. This pandemic has shown that no matter what the challenge is, the Markham community will overcome it. Today, I would like to thank the front-line health care workers who are doing incredible work. I would also like to thank all those who have helped in Markham's hour of need.\n",
      "The Chair: I understand we had a bit of a glitch there. I'm sorry. With the pause, we thought that was the end of it.  Mr.Serr, I would ask you to continue. I understand you started to switch languages. Please continue. You have 30seconds.\n",
      "Mr. Marc Serr: Thank you. I'm switching to English now. Thank you to our nurses, doctors, pharmacists, cashiers, janitors. Thank you to various retail workers and first responders dealing with COVID-19. You keep our communities safe and healthy, and you feed us. Your dedication and sacrifice are greatly appreciated. As we start to see local businesses reopen, it is important for all of us to remember to follow best practices outlined by local public health. Our front-line workers deserve our respect. It is important for all of us to respect social distancing, to protect all workers and their families. Together we can remain strong and united as we continue to face this challenge together.\n",
      "The Chair: Again, my apologies for skipping over there, but now we'll to to Ms. McLeod.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathy McLeod (KamloopsThompsonCariboo, CPC): Mr. Chair, in commemoration of Italian Heritage Month, I would like to pay tribute to the Colombo Lodge and Italian Cultural Centre in Kamloops, British Columbia. The Colombo Lodge was founded in 1914 and is an integral part of our community. Recently they began Colombo Cares take-home dinners with proceeds distributed to different non-profit organizations throughout the region. Last month they very generously gave away hundreds of dinners to Royal Inland Hospital staff and paramedics for their tireless work throughout the pandemic. In their own words they say, Colombo Lodge is very proud of the Italians that have made Kamloops their home. Community members of Italian ancestrypast and presenthave helped and continue to help Kamloops prosper as a giving, welcoming and inclusive community. Personally, I want to thank all members for their friendship and generosity over the years. Our community is forever grateful for their kindness.\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now proceed to Mr. Harris.\n",
      "Mr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP): Mr. Chair, many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are facing a serious financial crisis. Most people with disabilities are waiting to be included in the Liberals' promised program. Fish plant workers will need support to avoid a disastrous year. Many small businesses don't qualify for programs. Municipalities need emergency help to meet the crisis. People are worried about what will happen when the CERB runs out in two weeks' time, and the coming tourism season looks very grim. The province itself is in serious financial crisis due to the pandemic and the decline in oil prices. The federal government must overhaul and enhance the fiscal stabilization program to help Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and other oil-producing provinces through this crisis. Both the province and the oil and gas industry players have committed to net zero emissions by 2050. This is a challenge and an opportunity to transition to a sustainable energy future, but it will require significant investment and support by government to keep the industry strong and make this a just transition for workers. Much has been done. Much more needs to be done.\n",
      "The Chair: Ms.Gaudreau, you have the floor.\n",
      "Ms. Marie-Hlne Gaudreau (LaurentidesLabelle, BQ): Mr.Chair, all 44elected municipal officials in the riding of LaurentidesLabelle and I have sent a letter to the government asking that cellular and high-speed Internet networks be made available to all. The crisis has accelerated the demonstration of the need for these networks in daily life. The territorial complexity of the Laurentians means that there are areas where the signal is weak, unstable or non-existent. There is an urgent and essential need to change the infrastructure of the current networks. Also, because of the lockdown, Internet failures are being felt, and they prevent distance learning, telemedicine and teleworking, among other things. How can our municipalities develop economically if they can't provide their community with adequate communication tools? We are therefore calling on the government to put the interests of its people first by investing massively right now in the construction of high-speed Internet and cellular infrastructure.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Waugh.\n",
      "Mr. Kevin Waugh (SaskatoonGrasswood, CPC): I rise today to pay tribute to Sir Winston Churchill, the former prime minister of Great Britain and one of the greatest leaders history has ever known. In what can only be called a lifetime of service, Churchill's contributions to the Commonwealth and to the world are without equal. During the Second World War he led the allied forces in Europe against the tyranny and fascism of Adolph Hitler and his Nazi regime. When our world was in its darkest hour, Churchill's leadership was a beacon of hope and freedom. I am reminded of something he once said, All the greatest things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honour, duty, mercy, hope. Sir Winston Churchill himself embodied all of these great things and will forever be a symbol of freedom, democracy and hope.\n",
      "The Chair: Mr. Gerretsen.\n",
      "Mr. Mark Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I would like to add my voice to the recognition and celebration of Pride Month, which is celebrated annually during June. Pride Month is important for Canadians because we can be proud of who we are and celebrate our diversity. This June is different from previous years as we cannot celebrate in person all together. However, I know the ongoing pandemic will not stop us from showing our love and support for the LGBTQ+ community. To celebrate Pride Month this year, my office distributed 3,000 pride maple leaf pins across the country; whoever asked received one. Although the majority was sent to constituents in my riding, over 500 pins were sent to the neighbouring ridings of LanarkFrontenacKingston, LeedsGrenvilleThousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, and HastingsLennox and Addington. It warms my heart to see so many Canadians showing their support. Happy Pride, everyone.\n",
      "The Chair: We will now proceed to the questioning of ministers. Please note that we will suspend the proceedings twice to allow employees who provide support for the sitting to substitute for each other safely. Mr.Deltell.\nMr. Grard Deltell (Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC): Mr.Chair, I am very pleased to take part in today's meeting of this parliamentary committee. Canada has been dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic for three months now. The situation now seems to be improving, although we must remain vigilant. Economically, business people and the entire Canadian economy depend on government decisions. My question is very simple: when will the economic update take place?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member for his question. I agree with him that Canada and Canadians are doing an excellent and difficult job in the fight against coronavirus. As for the economy, our government is there for Canadians, for workers and for businesses, and it will continue to be.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Canadians, business people and businesses want to know where the government is headed. When will the economic update take place?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, Canadians know that the government is there to support them. Eight\n",
      "The Chair: We return to Mr.Deltell.\nMr. Grard Deltell: Canadians and Quebeckers also know that the Government of Quebec will table its economic update this week. Why isn't the federal government doing the same?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I'm pleased to explain to hon. members and to Canadians what the government is doing for the economy\nThe Chair: We return to Mr.Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, it is a real pleasure for me to explain to the minister and everybody in the House of Commons that today the Saskatchewan government will table its economic update. Why can't Ottawa do that?\nThe Chair: The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I'm delighted to have the opportunity to share with Canadians what our government is doing to support workers, businesses and the economy. Eight million Canadians have received the CERB, essential support for Canadian workers and their families.\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, 11 days ago the Newfoundland government tabled its own economic update. We see governments acting correctly for their people, except for the Liberal government, which cannot table an economic update. When will the Liberal government table an economic update, which Canadians would like to see?\nThe Chair: The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I am delighted to share with the member opposite and with Canadians what we are doing practically that has meaning for Canadians. Let me talk about what we are doing for Canadian businesses. Nearly 670,000 Canadian businesses have received support\n",
      "The Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Deltell.\nMr. Grard Deltell: In Canada, the Quebec government will table its economic update this week. The Saskatchewan government tabled its economic update today. The Newfoundland government has tabled its economic update. Everybody is working hard in Canada, and the business community would like to know where the Liberal government is going. The question is crystal clear. When will the Liberal government table an economic update?\nThe Chair: The honourable Deputy Prime Minister.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, Canadian workers and Canadian businesses want to know that our government is here to support them. I have shared with this House our support for Canadian workers through the CERB. I've spoken about the CEBA, and let me point out that more than $26 billion of support has been given through that essential program. Let me talk about the wage subsidy. More than 2.6 million\nThe Chair: We'll return to Mr. Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr.Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three months?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workers\nThe Chair: Mr.Deltell.\n",
      "Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctly?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure Canadians\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now continue with Ms.Normandin. Ms.Normandin, you have the floor.\n",
      "Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr.Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening on the ground and what their needs are. Will the government do the only thing within its authority, which is to take the cheque, sign it and put it in the mail?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I thank the hon. member for her question. We fully understand the importance of federal support for the provinces, especially in our national fight against the coronavirus. I agree with the hon. member that we must give financial support to the provinces, including Quebec absolutely. I would also like to point out the importance of the support of the Canadian Armed Forces, who are doing an important and excellent job in Quebec and Ontario today, right now.\n",
      "Ms. Christine Normandin: Mr.Chair, I am glad to see that there is recognition of the importance of transferring this money. My question is whether it can be transferred unconditionally; that's what I'm asking. There's a state of emergency. In the past, we have seen that it takes a long time to negotiate conditions with the federal government. We saw it in the case of the Quebec City tramway, and we are still seeing it now in the case of transfers for housing in Quebec, for which there is no agreement and, therefore, no transfer of money. Will the federal government send the money free of conditions?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, the hon. member said in her first question that the only thing the federal government had to do on health care was to sign the cheques. I can't agree because, today, at this time, at the request of the Premier of Quebec, the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces are in Quebec today; they're there to save the lives of seniors\nThe Chair: We now return to Ms.Normandin.\n",
      "Ms. Christine Normandin: It was indeed at Quebec's request. What I'm saying is that, at present, the provinces are unanimously asking that there be no conditions. It's urgent that the money be transferred. The federal government's job here is to sign the cheque and send it to the provinces. The government's job is also to make Parliament work. This is where there should be negotiations so that we can work, among other things, to send money to people living with disabilities, to make sure we fight CERB fraud and to make sure that court time limits are effective in the current crisis. Can the government focus on the issue in order to respect the provinces and transfer money for health care?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: I thank the hon. member for her question, Mr.Chair. I agree with the hon. member that the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces are in Quebec today at the request of the Province of Quebec. That said, I hope that the hon. member will agree with me that being there for Quebec's seniors, that saving the lives of Quebec's seniors, is much more than simply signing cheques. I am very proud of the work the women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces are doing. I think we all should thank these people who are working for Canada, for Quebec, and who are doing an important and excellent job.\n",
      "Ms. Christine Normandin: Mr.Chair, I think the Deputy Prime Minister misunderstood me when I was talking about the importance of acting quickly. Negotiations between the government and the provinces take an awfully long time because the federal government decides to place conditions where there shouldn't be any. Right now, the only important thing is to transfer the money quickly so that it can be used in our hospitals and our long-term care facilities, where the need is desperate. Quebec and the provinces know exactly what their needs are.\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr.Chair, I would like to point out the extent to which the federal government is there to support the provinces, including Quebec. We have increased funding to the provinces and territories by $500million to help them prepare for COVID-19 outbreaks. This funding is in addition to the $40billion that we already provide annually to the provinces and territories. That's a lot of money. It is strong endorsement\nThe Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Burnaby South, NDP): Mr. Chair, systemic racism is killing people. It's killing black people and it's killing indigenous people. Recently, Rodney Levi was another victim of systemic racism. He was killed in New Brunswick by the RCMP. To deal with systemic racism, we need systemic change. Will the Liberal government commit to systemic change so that not another life is ever taken again?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I thank the member opposite for the extremely important question, and I'll take this opportunity to acknowledge the work that he has done for many years fighting racism in Canada. Our government absolutely acknowledges that systemic racism exists in Canada. It exists in all of our institutions, including the police and the RCMP. I agree with the member opposite that now is the moment to fight this\nThe Chair: Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, I thank the Deputy Prime Minister very much for the response, but there are some specific actions we need to take. There are movements. Black Lives Matter, as a movement, is calling for the defunding of police. What they're saying is we need to make better choices with how money is being spent. When someone is in need of a wellness check or a mental health check, money, financing and support should go to mental health workers and health care workers, not the police. Is the government prepared to fund and prioritize health care workers over the police?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, the member quite rightly began his questions by speaking about systemic racism against indigenous people in Canada, and I would like to speak about that for a moment. I spoke to Perry Bellegarde this morning, because it is such a crucial issue. We can describe it as the original sin of our country. I absolutely agree that we need root and branch reform, including in how policing is done in Canada.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, will the Liberal government commit to a review of the use of force as outlined for the RCMP? Will the Liberals commit to that change?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Public Safety had many conversations last week with the RCMP. We all accept that\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Singh.\nMr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, will the government commit to ensuring that de-escalation receives priority?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Let me continue, Mr. Chair. Systemic racism exists in all of our federal institutions, including the RCMP. It's time to put an end to it. Let me just say\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Mr. Chair, I'm not getting an answer. Will the Prime Minister or the Liberal government commit to something simple and ensure that at the federal level, racial profiling, street checks and carding are expressly prohibited?\nHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, sadly, I can't agree that rooting out systemic racism is going to be simple, but I can agree that racial profiling is absolutely inappropriate. It is not something that we should\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Singh.\n",
      "Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Well, I'm going to try to get another commitment from the government, because they don't seem able to commit to something as clear as ending racial profiling. We know that millions of Canadians in a couple of weeks are going to be faced with the reality of their CERB ending. These families are worried about how they're going to put food on the table, because they can't return to a job. Will the Liberal government commit today so that those families will have some concrete support, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, let me be clear, as I was in my previous answer, that our government clearly is opposed to racial profiling. This is a wrong practice and we're very clear about our position there. Now when it comes to the CERB, I absolutely share the concern of the member opposite. The Canadian economy is in its direst state since the Great Depression. We know that all the jobs have not yet come back. We know that Canadian workers, Canadian families, continue to need\n",
      "The Chair: We'll now pause for a short time to allow staff to change within the safety parameters for the COVID-19 virus, and as we resume, we will go to Ms. Harder.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC): Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister has mandated his ministers, and I quote, to govern in a positive, open and collaborative way. Ironically, as it stands, Parliament is currently closed for business. Opposition parties have little opportunity to hold the ruling party to account, private members' bills cannot be tabled and legislation cannot be debated. Can the Prime Minister, Mr. Trudeau himself, help us understand how all of this fits into his definition of so-called open government?\n",
      "The Honourable Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): Well, Mr. Chair, we're here, right? We're here, and the opposition is asking questions. They have the equivalent of eight question periods instead of five to ask questions. They have more time than before, so I don't know why they're not happy about it.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: That's like when I'm asking for a full meal and your handing me a few jellybeans and saying, Why aren't you happy with that? Mr. Chair, here's the thing. It's like switching a light on and off when it's convenient for the Prime Minister and for the Liberal Party. That's what they want to do here. That's not Parliament. That's not democracy. When will Mr. Trudeau do the right thing, turn the lights on and get back to work for Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: I'm really sorry to hear that my colleague's not working. I can assure you, Mr. Chair, on this side of the House, we're all actually working very hard and we're answering the questions from the opposition. Why? It's because it's extremely important. I sat there for seven years asking questions. I understand important\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: The member opposite knows very well that he is misleading the Canadian public. This is not true Parliament. This is simply a special committee. Here's the thing. On the Liberal Party website, under the platform commitment, it says that Parliament works best when its members are free to do what they have been elected to do, and that is be the voice for their communities and hold the government to account. This is a Liberal document. Did the Prime Minister forget that strengthening Parliament was part of his 2019 platform commitment?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for quoting our excellent platform. That was a very very good document. The thing is, I think we've reached a balance whereby MPs can come from different places, mostly around Ottawa, and ask questions; but also we can have colleagues from across the country asking questions. Why does my colleague think it is better to have only 35 MPs participating instead of 338?\nMs. Rachael Harder: Does the Prime Minister value democracy, or does he still look up to China's basic dictatorship?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, we're answering all the questions from the opposition, not only from the people in this room, but we're answering\nThe Chair: It's back to Ms. Harder now.\nMs. Rachael Harder: I'll ask the question again. Does the Prime Minister still value the basic dictatorship of China over Canada's democracy?\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: I don't know where the colleague wants to go from here, Mr. Chair. I'd like to know from her why it is not important to her that her colleagues participate directly.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: Mr. Trudeau wrote to his ministers and said to them that they continue to raise the bar on openness, effectiveness and transparency. He went on to explain that This means...government that is open by default. We now have a parliament that is currently shut down. Mr. Trudeau has shut it down and has prevented us from being able to do to the good work that Canadians expect us to do. Is this Mr. Trudeau's idea of open by default?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, do they want to talk about shutting down Parliament? How about the time they prorogued Parliament twicenot only once, but twice? The Conservative government shut down Parliament twice. I was here. I was sitting on the other side of the aisle. It's quite the opposite now. We're taking all the questions. This place is open, and we're answering questions.\n",
      "The Chair: One moment, please. I haven't acknowledged you yet, Ms. Harder. We've stopped the time there. I want to remind honourable members that questions and answers are being given, and we want to hear both sides. Please keep the heckling down. Ms. Harder, please proceed.\n",
      "Ms. Rachael Harder: In 2014, the leader of the Liberal Party developed a policy resolution entitled Restoring Trust in Canada's Democracy. That's ironic, because right now, again, Parliament is currently shut down. We are prevented from being able to do the good work that we are expected to do. At the time, the Prime Minister said, Canadians want their Members of Parliament to be effective voices for their communities in Ottawa, and not merely mouthpieces in their communities for an all-too-powerful Prime Minister. Sadly, Mr. Trudeau has become the all-too-powerful prime minister that he once believed should not exist. Why did he change his mind?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, I'd like to know why my colleague wants to shut down the voices of her colleagues who could not speak and could not participate in this room. Mr. Chair, how would we vote on private members' bills, for example? As you know, it is not a government vote or a party vote; it's per row. You want to come back? Are you going to acceptMr. Chair, through youthat we have electronic voting, yes or no?\nThe Chair: We'll go on to Mr. Genuis.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, we know that the Minister of Foreign Affairs has champagne tastes and London flats, but it's his champagne mortgages that Canadians are concerned about. Specifically, why did the minister only disclose the complete extent of his personal debt to the Chinese government on June 4 of this year?\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, as you know, since the minister entered politics, his two mortgages and other liabilities and assets have been fully disclosed to the Ethics Commissioner and placed on the online public registry. It's public, Mr. Chair. It's public.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis: Now it's public and it's terrible. When will the foreign affairs minister be here to answer these questions himself?\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, it's always been public. We're in the middle of a pandemic here, trying to help Canadians, and the best they can do is ask questions about\nThe Chair: We will go back to Mr. Genuis.\nMr. Garnett Genuis: When the minister owes over a million dollars to the Chinese government, people have a right to ask him questions. When will the Minister of Foreign Affairs show up?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: The minister shows up every day, Mr. Chair. He shows up and works for Canadians. Once again, those are public documents. Everything the minister did is public. I still don't know why they ask\nThe Chair: We'll now go back to Mr. Genuis.\nMr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, he doesn't even have to come to the House. All he has to do is appear on the screen. Where is the minister? Why is he hiding? Why won't he answer questions about his personal debt to the Chinese government?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Mr. Chair, if he goes online he's going to get the information.\nMr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, the minister is hiding. Let's ask some specific questions about their China policy. What is the impact on the decision-making? Three-quarters of Canadians don't want Huawei involved in our 5G network. Will the minister put the interests of Canadians ahead of the interests of his creditors and say no to Huawei?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains (Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry): Mr. Chair, when it comes to 5G deployment, we are right now currently undergoing a comprehensive review. We have been absolutely clear with allies and with Canadians that we never have and never will compromise Canadians' national interests.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, that is not an answer, and it is completely out of step with what our allies have already recognized. Reports are emerging of multiple deadly viruses exported from Winnipeg's microbiology laboratory to the Wuhan Institute of Virology right before scientists were expelled for policy breaches. In spite of that, scientific co-operation between Canadian institutions and the military-affiliated Wuhan Institute of Virology is continuing. Why hasn't the government put in place new guidelines to prevent the export of sensitive pathogens and information to China?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu (Minister of Health): Mr. Chair, he's right that in 2019 the National Microbiology Laboratory shared lab samples with the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The National Microbiology Laboratory routinely shares samples with other labs to help advance the international community's understanding of viruses and the research that is ongoing around those viruses. There are strict protocols in place for these transfers, and these samples were transported according to Canadian laws and regulations.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, I think Canadians would be concerned to hear that it's routine to transport viruses to Chinese military-affiliated labs. When Champagne was the parliamentary secretary for finance, the government decided to give hundreds of millions of dollars to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, bankrolling Chinese state-controlled development projects in Asia with weak standards in labour, human rights and environment. Will the minister put Canadian taxpayers ahead of his personal creditors and support a pullout from the Communist Party-controlled development bank?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: Once again, Mr. Chair, my colleague is trying to connect the dots, and I don't know exactly where he is going from here, but everything is public. There's a thing called Google. He can go on it and check the information.\n",
      "Mr. Garnett Genuis: Mr. Chair, the public can listen to this. I'm sure this exchange will also be available on Google, and the public can draw their own conclusions. We have failures on 5G, failures when it comes to the transport of deadly viruses and failures when it comes to giving over $400 million to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It's clear that the Bank of China's investment in Minister Champagne is paying off. It's time for the minister to settle his debt with the Communist government and not settle it on the backs of Canadians. When will the minister be here in the House and answer questions about this mortgage?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: My colleague should be cautious with what he is saying in the House, Mr. Chair. This is serious stuff. He should be careful about what he says. The minister is actually working extremely hard for all Canadians and is doing his job correctly, Mr. Chair. We're talking about public information. Once again, let him go to Google and google it. That's it.\nThe Chair: Now we'll go to Mr. Barrett.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Barrett: Canada's ambassador to the United Nations sent a letter last week to all member states of the UN promising that Canada would consider providing more funding for UNRRA, the same UNRRA that is a front for Hamas, which allows weapons of terror to be stored in schools and provides textbooks that call for the destruction of Israel. Do these Liberals have no shame when it comes to their quest for a seat on the UN Security Council?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for that question. We know that at this time Canada must show leadership in the face of global challenges. More than ever, Canada is playing a positive role by being a champion in diversity and inclusion, supporting the global fight against COVID-19, addressing climate change, leading peace and security efforts and helping the most vulnerable. A seat on the Security Council will allow Canada to be a strong voice for a fairer, more inclusive and prosperous\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mr. Barrett.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Barrett: Mr. Chair, I received a letter from Bob Anderson this week, who's advocating for his neighbours like Jean Grevelding, who owns a cottage at Butternut Bay. Like many people, Jean is an American who owns a property on our side of the border. These people are taxpaying members of our communities. These folks have plans in place to follow all Canadian quarantine rules. They're concerned about leaving their properties uncared for over the summer. Will folks like Jean be allowed to cross the border to check on their properties this summer?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair (Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Of course, our priority is and always has been and always must be the protection of the health and safety of Canadians. That's why we put in place these restrictions for non-essential travel and have required, through the Public Health Agency of Canada, a 14-day quarantine. I don't know the specifics of the person for whom you advocate, but we want to make sure that if they come into Canada, it is for an essential purpose and that they do it safely and respect the quarantine that has been put in place.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Barrett: With nine branches throughout my riding, the Royal Canadian Legion offers a great deal to veterans and rural communities alike. They have been experiencing hardship and a loss of revenue, to the point where they may be forced to shut their doors. The Zone G2 commander and local mayors such as Roger Haley have reached out to me expressing their dire need. Will the government offer support to Legions across the country so they can continue to carry out their vital work for our veterans?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay (Minister of Veterans Affairs): Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Yes, we have done a lot to help support groups like the Legions. There is a $350-million emergency community support fund. If they're supplying any help to people regarding COVID, this fund is there. Indeed, we're doing everything we can to make sure that we help the Legions and other groups that do so much to help veterans right across the country.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Barrett: On May 21, the minister stated that her team was working as quickly as it could to fill the gaps in CEBA. It has now been three weeks, and many business owners, such as mortgage broker Corinna Smith-Gatcke, are still left in the lurch amid the delays, which are pushing businesses closer to shutting their doors for good. Will these businesses have access to CEBA before it's too late for them?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the honourable member for that really important question on our Canadian small businesses. Those businesses can absolutely have access to the loan at their financial institution this Friday, and I would encourage them to go and see their bank or credit union. I want businesses to know that nothing is more important for us than making sure they get the support they need during this difficult time.\n",
      "Mr. Michael Barrett: The County Road 43 expansion project is critical for my riding and the region as a whole. This project will widen the road, increasing safety for the 18,000 motorists who travel the road every day. It's been 334 days since the provincial and local governments announced funding, but there has been nothing from this Liberal government. It's been 181 days since Minister McKenna told me her staff were reviewing the project. Today, there is still nothing, and for the last month the minister's team has not even found the time to respond to my request for an update. Will Minister McKenna finally stop with the delays and commit to funding this project today?\n",
      "Hon. Catherine McKenna (Minister of Infrastructure and Communities): Mr. Chair, as the member opposite knows, we work with provinces and territories to advance our infrastructure investments. We're making investments across the country. They are making a real difference in people's lives. We're always happy to work with members of Parliament, but they must also work with provinces and territories so that projects are advanced by them to our office.\nThe Chair: We'll now continue with Mrs. Wagantall.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (YorktonMelville, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Through you, has Mr. MacAulay read ombudsman Dalton's May 2020 report, Financial Compensation for Canadian Veterans: A comparative analysis of benefit regimes?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I apologize, but I'll have to ask my honourable colleague to repeat the question.\nThe Chair: Mrs. Wagantall, we'll freeze the time so that there's no extra time taken.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. My question was whether Mr. MacAulay has read ombudsman Dalton's May 2020 report, Financial Compensation for Canadian Veterans: A comparative analysis of benefit regimes.\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate my honourable colleague's question. Of course, I appreciate Mr. Dalton's input and all that he has done for veterans. We've discussed it many times. I've done everything and worked with him in order to make sure that we bring the proper compensation to veterans\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: As a result of that study, are the financial outcomes Canada seeks to provide for ill and injured veterans now clearly defined within the Department of Veterans Affairs?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as the member would know, I am to bring a report to the veterans affairs committee, and there are a number of things done in order to make sure that report is\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Then I would suggest that we get our committee up and going as it should be. Where are these financial directions published?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay: Well, of course, lockdown, but just under $90 million that the government put in supplementary estimates to make sure we address the backlog for Veterans Affairs. It's a major help\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Minister, are Canadian Armed Forces members provided with a copy of this document?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, my honourable colleague would have to ask the Canadian Armed Forces that question.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: There are three different providing lifetime benefits for ill and injured veterans. In Ombudsman Dalton's recent report, did any one of these three provide the best compensation in all nine scenarios that were studied?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Of course, as she knows, there's been a lot of work done in order to make sure that we provide the proper compensation to veterans. We're working very hard, with a lot of help from Mr. Dalton, to make sure that the appropriate\nThe Chair: We'll now continue with Mrs. Wagantall.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: In the undisclosed settlement of Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says ...Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statement?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracy\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorry\nMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr.Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.\n",
      "The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.\nThe Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you have?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.\nThe Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side.  Ms.Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakers?\n",
      "Ms. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.\nThe Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more? I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.\nThe Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, Chair?\n",
      "The Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay? No? We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sir?\nThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families.  Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statement?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will do and want to do.\nThe Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans' files?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VAC?\n",
      "Hon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veterans\nThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.\nMrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for life?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.\n",
      "Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitably?\nHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.\nThe Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the Liberal OIC. My question to the Minister of Public Safety is this: Did their department do a legal analysis and consider the section 15 charter rights of disabled Canadians not to be discriminated against when they passed their OIC?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Yes, there was a very thorough analysis done by the justice department to ensure that the prohibitions we put in place were, in fact, charter compliant. Let me also say, Mr. Chair, how important it was that we prohibited weapons that were not designed for sporting purposes at all. In fact, they were designed for soldiers to use in combat. They have no place in a civil society. We have prohibited them, and we believeand this has been echoed by many people across the countrythat this will make Canadians safer.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd: Mr. Chair, is the minister aware that the AR-15 is the most popular sporting rifle in Canada, and is he aware that disabled veterans like Major Mark Campbell are unable to participate in the sport of sport shooting because of his OIC?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I can assure the member that what I am aware of is that the AR-15 and other weapons like them have been used in mass killings in Canada on many occasions, such as at cole Polytechnique, at Dawson College, again at the Quebec mosque and in Moncton. The AR-15s in particular were also used at the terrible tragedy in places like Sandy Hook, where a bunch of kids were killed, so there is no place for\nThe Chair: We will go to Mr. Lloyd.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd: Mr. Chair, it has been months since the Liberals shut down this Parliament and months since the Minister of Finance should have presented a budget or at least an economic update to Canadians. Since then we have seen billions spent with little oversight and no plan. The minister says that he needs certainty before he can table a budget. Well, that didn't stop Stephen Harper and the Conservatives from tabling a budget in the depth of the last great recession. When are these Liberals finally going to take their job seriously and table an economic update?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier (Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance): Mr. Chair, we're taking this very seriously. We're working for Canadians and bringing forward supports to make sure that businesses, workers and Canadians can put food on the table and pay their rent. We will continue to support Canadians, and when we have a clear projection to present, we will do that.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd: Mr. Chair, the results are in, and businesses aren't happy with the so-called support programs from these Liberals. In fact, the oil and gas industry has been shut out of many of these economic programs. When is the government going to recognize that their business support plans have been an absolute failure with only a fraction of the billions promised being accessible to businesses?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Chair, our government has taken swift and immediate action to support our sector throughout this challenging time. We had the BCAP, which is critically important to providing liquidity to support the SMEs that make up 85% of the jobs in our sector. It has taken an enormous team effort. People are working around the clock to get money where it needs to be. We are helping hard-working Canadians, small businesses and large businesses right across the country, but in particular in our energy sector.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd: Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to see the Minister of Natural Resources online. He tweeted recently to praise the Alberta Carbon Trunk Line and the North West Redwater Partnership refinery in my riding. Can the minister tell us what, if any, support they have given to the innovative carbon capture and sequestration technology in this country?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Mr. Chair, we see carbon capture and sequestration as an integral part of lowering emissions, making emissions more competitive and making our oil and gas industry more competitive. We're seeing where the investment dollars are going. They are going to jurisdictions that are committed to lowering emissions. Obviously, this government is committing to net zero.\n",
      "Mr. Dane Lloyd: I note that the minister couldn't name a single example of government support for carbon capture, utilization and sequestration technology. We have spent a lot of time talking about the COVID-19 pandemic, but Canadians are living with another horrific reality, that being the intensifying opioid overdose epidemic. Reports indicate that in the past four years, 14,000 Canadians have died, and the numbers during COVID-19 have been skyrocketing, with British Columbia seeing a 39% increase this year alone. I know this because I've lost a family member to a fentanyl overdose. When is the government going to take this scourge seriously and take action to save the lives of Canadians?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Mr. Chair, I share the member's deep sadness about the number of lives we've lost to opioid overdose. Our government has been steadily making it easier for people who live with substance use to access medications to treat substance use, such as prescription Suboxone and methadone. We have made it easier to rapidly establish safe injection sites in communities and have supported community-based projects that work with people who are using substances. We need to understand that this is a complex issue, and we need to support people to get the help they need.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes (AlgomaManitoulinKapuskasing, NDP)): The hon. member for Thrse-DeBlainville.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot (Thrse-De Blainville, BQ): MadamChair, I will come back to the bill introduced last week. As parliamentarians, we felt like we were watching a very bad play, as I imagine the public did. I say that it was theatre, even though it shouldn't be in this place. The government decided to stage a play and act alone and, unfortunately, there were several acts missing. A very important part of this bill was about supporting people with disabilities in this time of crisis. However, the government did not see fit to negotiate with the opposition parties, even though it is in a minority position. Despite this arrogance, the Bloc Qubcois proposed solutions. One of the things we proposed was to split the bill so that we could give this support to people with disabilities, but the Conservatives did not want to do that. We came back and asked for time to negotiate and give support to people with disabilities, but the government defeated the motion. We asked that the House be recalled today so that we could pass this part of the bill concerning support for people with disabilities, but we are still in the dark. Why are we abandoning people with disabilities?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen (Minister of Families, Children and Social Development): I thank the hon. member for her question. We know this pandemic has deeply affected the lives and health of all Canadians and has disproportionately affected Canadians with disabilities in particular. From the very beginning, we've taken a disability-inclusive approach to our emergency response to ensure that Canadians with disabilities get the support they need. That is why we announced a one-time payment of $600 for persons with disabilities to address these expenses. This will go a long way toward helping Canadians with disabilities. We encourage and urge all parties in the opposition to support this measure. We're confident that this measure, along with other investments, will benefit Canadians with disabilities, and we hope to get the support of the other parties very soon.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot: MadamChair, I remind you that this measure wasn't passed because we weren't allowed to do so. A measure to help people with disabilities has been put in an omnibus bill. We've tried here, in the House, to provide the means to give that support, so I ask again, can the government be counted on to give a response to people with disabilities?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, it was absolutely not an omnibus bill. It contained assistance for the disabled, of course, but it also contained assistance for our seasonal workers, as well as a number of other measures that the Bloc Qubcois opposed. They refused to debate and, when the question of splitting the bill came up, the Conservatives refused to do that. That is why there is no bill at the moment, and that is very unfortunate.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot: It was a Bloc Qubcois proposal to split the bill. The government had not thought of it, but they found that it was a good idea. Let me return to the attack. This bill proposed changes to the wage subsidy program, it was supposed to make the CERB more flexible, it proposed fines for fraudsters and, since there was a little section about a benefit for the disabled, the government took it for granted that we would support it without any negotiations with the parties. However, we set one very important condition: that the Liberal Party must get its hands out of taxpayers' pockets in terms of the wage subsidy.\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, as we listen to the Bloc Qubcois members, we might think that they invented peanut butter and apple pie. This bill contained a number of measures that all Quebeckers and all Canadians needed, but the Bloc Qubcois refused to debate it. No, we did not follow the Bloc Qubcois' example in splitting the bill; we had thought of it a long time previously. We have not been able to do that because of the Conservatives. Because of them, we cannot help those living with disabilities.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Ms.Chabot, you have 45seconds left.\n",
      "Ms. Louise Chabot: We asked on a number of occasions for the House to be able to sit starting today to pass the part of the bill dealing with those with disabilities. What is the status of that, MadamChair? We have not heard about it since.\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, my colleague knows very well that things are not as simple as that. There are procedural mechanisms unique to the House. I hope that, one day, we will be able to pass this bill and be able to provide assistance for those living with disabilities. I hope that the Conservatives will change their minds and give us their support.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go now to the honourable member for Don Valley East, Ms. Ratansi.\n",
      "Ms. Yasmin Ratansi (Don Valley East, Lib.): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be sharing my time with the member for Surrey Centre. Since 2015 our government has been focused on ensuring its policies mitigate the effects of climate change. Several measures have been implemented for phasing out coal, making polluters pay, providing climate incentives, investing in green technologies and much more, which all together have created a climate plan that is doing more to cut pollution than any other in Canada's history. In my riding of Don Valley East, many innovative businesses have benefited from these investments and initiatives. One area of particular interest is our government's work to protect 25% of Canada's land and 25% of its oceans by 2025. Our natural environment is something that Canadians and my constituents care about deeply. Could the minister update this House on the new conservation projects announced on June 5, World Environment Day, and on how our government is protecting our environment?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Madam Chair, protecting nature is an important part of how we will address climate change and the very real challenges it presents. That's why on June 5, World Environment Day, our government announced over 60 conservation projects under development across Canada. These projects are funded through the Canada Nature Fund's target 1 challenge initiative. They'll conserve Canadian nature and biodiversity and protect species at risk, enhance ecological integrity and connectivity, and enhance the size of Canada's vast network of protected areas. Nearly half of these projects are indigenous-led, with the aim of creating indigenous-protected conserved areas. Madam Chair, projects like these move us closer to our goal of protecting 25% of Canada's lands and oceans by 2025. By working together in partnership with the provinces, territories, municipalities, indigenous peoples and Canadians, together we can protect our natural environment for generations to come.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Ms. Ratansi, since you have 25 seconds left, we will go to the honourable member for Surrey Centre.\n",
      "Mr. Randeep Sarai (Surrey Centre, Lib.): Madam Chair, there are many small and medium-sized businesses in my riding of Surrey Centre. Many have been impacted by COVID-19. They saw a decrease in business or needed to close their doors completely in order to adhere to public safety measures to manage the spread of COVID-19. These measures helped keep our most vulnerable citizens safe and ensured that our hospital and health care providers did not become overwhelmed with a sharp spike in cases. Thanks to our government's COVID-19 emergency response, many of these businesses have been able to keep their employees and access important liquidity through the Canada emergency business account, which provides loans to small businesses and non-profits, and the Canada emergency wage subsidy, which is helping businesses to keep and rehire their employees while their revenues are down by providing up to 75% of wages for up to 24 weeks. As we begin to reopen the economy and Canadians across the country return to the job market, those benefits will be even more important to help businesses and industries rehire their staff and make important adjustments to align with public health guidelines to gradually increase their operations. Can the minister please update the committee on how many Canadian businesses have taken advantage of CEBA and CEWS since applications for each have been opened?\n",
      "Hon. Mary Ng: Madam Chair, I want to begin by thanking the member for Surrey Centre for all the work he does to support his constituents and small businesses. Canadians across the country need to know our government has been working tirelessly and will continue to work tirelessly on their behalf. This is why we put in place the important programs to help them get through this crisis during this difficult time, programs such as the wage subsidy program. We know that in so many businesses the employees are often like extended family members. The wage subsidy has helped these businesses keep their employees on the payroll and are now helping in their rehiring as they slowly and safely restart. There are 348,000 businesses being helped with the wage subsidy program, and this means that 2.6 million workers are being helped. Businesses are also being helped through the interest-free $40,000 loan they can access through CEBA to help stay afloat and pay their expenses during this crisis. I'm pleased to inform this House that to date more than 669,000\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for St. John's East.\nMr. Jack Harris: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for LondonFanshawe. Madam Chair, with so many recent reports and videos of police using force, sometimes deadly force, and violence against indigenous and black people in Canada, I've called for the public safety committee to reconvene. If the members agree, will the minister come to the committee and provide concrete answers as to how the government intends to address racism inherent in Canada's law enforcement, and in particular the RCMP?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank my colleague for the question. It's perhaps the most important one facing Canada today. Madam Chair, indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes within the entire criminal justice system. In order to respond appropriately, I think it's necessary to begin by acknowledging the lived experience of people who've known bias and discrimination at the hands of the police and our courts and within our prisons. We remain committed to working with all racialized people and all of the members of this House to ensure that we work toward social justice for all Canadians, and I look forward to discussing the member's motion further with him.\n",
      "Mr. Jack Harris: Will the minister and the government commit to facilitating such a meeting of this committee virtually?\nHon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, the decisions of the committee are the committee's, so I'm sure that this will be a discussion within the committee, but if called, I will certainly be pleased to come with my officials to provide the committee with whatever support and information it needs to contribute to this very important discussion.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr. Harris, you have 40 seconds.\n",
      "Mr. Jack Harris: In light of what we've seen with Chief Adam in Fort McMurray and the RCMP accepting that the actions were reasonable, will the minister commit to a full review of the use of force by the RCMP, in particular the philosophy, tactics and training that is given to RCMP officers in dealing with the public?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: I thank the member and I want to assure him, first of all, that this is work that is ongoing, not just in the RCMP but throughout the police community. May I also take this opportunity, Madam Chair, to say that I think all police training has to begin with one very important principle, and that's the preservation of all life and the respect for all Canadians. We also know the importance of de-escalation training. We're committed to continuing to work with indigenous communities, racialized communities and with police services and all participants in the criminal justice system to make sure that it is fair for all Canadians.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for LondonFanshawe, Ms. Mathyssen.\nMs. Lindsay Mathyssen (LondonFanshawe, NDP): Madam Chair, we need more justice for black, indigenous and racialized people in Canada. They can't be asked to keep waiting. This government recognizes that systemic racism exists but refuses to collect race-based data that would allow us to quantify and truly address this injustice. We need data to protect Canadians. When will this government do the right thing and start collecting race-based data?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger (Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth): Madam Chair, our government agrees that it's important that we collect data, and that's exactly why, in the anti-racism secretariat and the anti-racism strategy, there is a commitment to have money go to Statistics Canada to collect race-based data. We look forward to working with all members to ensure it happens.\n",
      "Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen: Madam Chair, we know that Statistics Canada will start to collect job numbers based on race. This will allow us to identify systemic racism where it is and where we need to ensure a fair and more equal job market for black, indigenous and racialized people in Canada. Why is this government refusing to follow suit so we can tackle systemic racism everywhere, in every sector?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Madam Chair, I'd like to thank my honourable colleague for her question. She's absolutely correct in her assessment that we need to collect more data, reliable data, data that will help us deal with some of the challenges we're seeing with systemic discrimination, but, more broadly, we want to make sure that we continue to engage with an anti-racism strategy that will allow us to collect that disaggregated data. That is why we allocated $6.2 million to that initiative through Statistics Canada, but we know we must do more and we will do more.\n",
      "Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen: We know that all people are susceptible to catching COVID-19, but health authorities are clear that parts of cities like Montreal and Toronto have been more impacted than others. For black and racialized people living in these cities, this data is a matter of life and death. Will the government collect and share disaggregated data so we can identify and erase systemic racism, yes or no?\n",
      "Hon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, making decisions based on science and evidence is essential for our government. We took that practice from day one. It is exactly the step we will take moving forward and that's why we are making those investments to ensure that data exists. We are working across all departments. My mandate letter is public. I look forward to continuing to work not only with all ministers, departments and agencies, but all allies and all parties to get this work done.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr.Blaney, the honourable member for BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, has the floor.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Thank you, MadamChair. Last week, my plumber told me that, each time Justin Trudeau comes down the steps to make announcements totalling several billion dollars, he feels like someone is rifling through his pockets. My question is simple and goes to the Minister of Finance: where is this money coming from?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. Currently, the health and safety of Canadians are our top priorities. We have implemented an emergency economic plan to support Canadians, workers and companies. We will continue to support them during this crisis.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: The answer I would have liked is simple: we are borrowing the money and we are going to have to pay it back one day. That is another Liberal craze: they borrow money, they make campaign promises, and off they go. Under the Conservative government, the Chantier Davie in Lvis had 1,700workers for the supply ship Asterix. In the election campaign, the Liberals promised icebreakers. When are the Liberals going to award the icebreaker contracts to the Chantier Davie?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada): MadamChair, we are very proud of the Chantier Davie and we completely understand its role in the system. We are currently assessing those requests. We are going to establish the process for the polar ice-breaker, which is essential for the work of the Coast Guard in northern communities, and we are going to make sure that\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr.Blaney has the floor.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: The workers do not need words; they need contracts and jobs. The same is true for young people who want to work. There is money in the Canada summer jobs program: in my constituency alone, $150,000has been approved. Companies want young people to work and want to hire them. What is the minister waiting for in order to confirm those positions? In my constituency, and everywhere else in the country, our young people want to work. What is the government waiting for in order to send some cash to the Canada summer jobs program?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we are proud of the Canada summer jobs program. We are introducing flexibilities into the system to enable employers to be able to hire summer students. We recognize the importance of this program to provide both financial resources and necessary experience for young people. We believe in continuing to invest in the Canada summer jobs program.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: The workers, the young people and the employers have been waiting for weeks. The money is available; where is the announcement? MadamChair, our young people are not the only ones who want to work. There are also the temporary foreign workers. Let me use Jessie Gito as an example; he has been working at Plate2000 in Saint-Anselme for years. When the time came to renew his work permit, he found out that he has to have some biometric tests. But he cannot get them because the offices are closed. Is the minister going to allow Jessie Gito and the thousands of other temporary foreign workers who want to work to be able to do so until the government biometric testing centres reopen?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, it is important for the honourable member to recognize that we are in the early recovery stage of the pandemic. Employers are slowly reopening businesses. We will ensure that we support both our students and our temporary foreign workers to make sure we get the recovery right. We will continue to invest in the Canada summer jobs program. We've introduced flexibilities into the program to ensure that employers are able to take advantage of the program and give opportunities to young people.\n",
      "Hon. Steven Blaney: It is very simple. Jessie Gito is a foreign worker, who is in a company that provides an essential service. He needs a decision that will let him go to work, rather than staying home and doing nothing. Then, when the government's biometric testing centres are open again, he will gladly go to one. Young people want to work in agriculture as well, and the minister has told us that the government wants young people working and that their files will be processed as quickly as possible. She wants to create 700positions and she knows that people can fill in an application on a first-come first-served basis. Of those 700positions, how many have been confirmed to date? The good weather has arrived, the corn is starting to grow, and this is the time when farmers need the young workers.\n",
      "Hon. Marie-Claude Bibeau (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food): MadamChair, the program for young workers in agriculture is open. I also encourage agricultural producers to register for it. This is a program that is not only intended to provide summer jobs, but also to interest young people in making a career in agriculture. As I have said before, the department is processing files as quickly as possible. Each employer will have an answer very shortly.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will now take a short break. Okay, we are ready to start again.  We will go to the honourable member for BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte.\nMr. Doug Shipley (BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte, CPC): Thank you, Chair. Over the course of the pandemic, has the government been using all avenues possible to source much-needed PPE in Canada?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Madam Chair, we have been very clear that we have a made-in-Canada initiative that has engaged companies across the country. Over 700 companies have retooled and scaled up their operations for personal protective equipment to help front-line health care workers.\nMr. Doug Shipley: Madam Chair, I need to ask very quickly which ministry and minister are responsible for the sourcing of PPE in Canada.\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Madam Chair, this is a collective effort. I work with the Minister of Health and the minister for procurement , and we coordinate with the provinces and territories to make sure there are appropriate levels of PPE to help front-line health care workers and essential workers across the country.\n",
      "Mr. Doug Shipley: Thank you for that clarification. That will make this question all the more pertinent. My riding of BarrieSpringwaterOro-Medonte is the home of Southmedic Inc. Southmedic is a renowned medical supply business. For over 37 years, it has provided front-line health care workers with an extensive line of PPE and other essential products required when dealing with respiratory illnesses. This company specializes in respiratory illness equipment. Southmedic currently employs over 700 people, and it has been recognized as one of Canada's best-managed companies by Deloitte on numerous occasions. Since the beginning of the pandemic, both I and the member for BarrieInnisfil have been attempting to obtain some assistance for Southmedic from the federal government. Calls and emails were falling on deaf ears. In early May, I wrote a letter to Minister Anand outlining the situation. I received a letter back from the minister dated May 27 indicating that this issue of Southmedic falls under the mandate of the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. I have heard nothing more. When will the federal government reach out and help this great Canadian company and therefore ensure that all front-line workers will have the proper PPE they require?\n",
      "Hon. Navdeep Bains: Madam Chair, I'd like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. He knows full well that this is a very challenging time. That is why we had a call to action to engage Canadians right across the country. Since then, we've seen over 6,000 companies step up to offer solutions and ideas, and over 700 companies have retooled their efforts. I acknowledge that some companies are still engaging with the government, and we'll continue to explore all possible options to make sure we continue to procure the necessary levels of personal protective equipment to protect Canadians and to protect front-line health care workers. That has always been our priority. I want to thank the outstanding Canadian companies that have come forward and have helped us in this endeavour. We continue to look forward to working with them.\n",
      "Mr. Doug Shipley: Thank you for that answer. Just to follow up, there's no retooling required at this company. They could have been up and going very quickly. They just needed a little assistance at the beginning. Moving on to a different issue, while walking to my office this morning, I stopped at my local small family-run coffee shop and was discussing the current economic situation with the two owners of the establishment. They indicated they are having a very tough time surviving this economic downturn. The only thing keeping them hopeful is that soon the public service will start returning to work, and therefore their business will begin to return. Could the government please give us some indication as to what the plans are for returning the civil service back to work safely, and when?\n",
      "Hon. Jean-Yves Duclos (President of the Treasury Board): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to answer this question. This is a very important topic, but I'd like to take the opportunity first to thank our public servants, who have worked very hard in the last few weeks, both personally and professionally. In fact, today is a wonderful day to say that, because today is the start of National Public Service Week. That's one more reason to thank them for their dedicated work. They are not going to go back to work. They've been at work for the last few monthsin different circumstances, but they have been working very hard to deliver the services and the support Canadians need and deserve.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Next we'll go to the honourable member for SelkirkInterlakeEastman, Mr. Bezan.\nMr. James Bezan (SelkirkInterlakeEastman, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are for the Minister of National Defence. First of all, I want to thank the great men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces for the fantastic job they're doing in Operation LASER, serving on the front lines battling COVID-19. Can the Minister of National Defence give the House an update on exactly where we are at with the number of Canadian Armed Forces members who have been infected with COVID-19?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan (Minister of National Defence): Madam Chair, I want to echo the member opposite's comments in thanking our Canadian Armed Forces members. Currently, we have 13 active cases in the Canadian Armed Forces, but in the long-term care facilities we currently have 50 cases. No member has been currently hospitalized. We have also conducted very thorough reviews of our protection protocols as well.\nMr. James Bezan: Through you, Chair, Minister Sajjan, does that number of active cases include the active cases that are in long-term care facilities right now in Operation LASER?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, as I stated, the 50 cases are strictly from the long-term care facilities. The 13 cases I mentioned are not in the long-term care facilities. Just to give the actual clarification, no member has been currently hospitalized.\nMr. James Bezan: In those numbers, Madam Chair, can Mr. Sajjan say how many of those cases in long-term care facilities are active and how many are recovered?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I don't have the exact number. What I can say to break it down further is that in Quebec we currently have 36 and in Ontario we have 14. As well, 36 of the members have been out of isolation. I'll get more details and pass them on directly to the member, Madam Chair.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: Thank you, Minister. Madam Chair, I have a quick question while we're still talking about Operation LASER. The President of the Treasury Board has said, The Canadian Armed Forces will be present as long as their presence is needed in Quebec. This contradicts what Prime Minister Trudeau is saying, which is that we have a hard deadline of June 26 for the withdrawal of our troops for Operation LASER. That means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASER?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible? Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind schedule?\n",
      "Hon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement . We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement and we'll continue to do more as well.\n",
      "Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers' money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollars?\nHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.\n",
      "Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs program?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.\n",
      "Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that didn't really answer my question. Why are so many indigenous communities left out of the Canada summer jobs program? This is very important to my community and to communities throughout the province. Will the government investigate why these communities were rejected?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, I want to assure the honourable member that we, of course, value the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in all communities, including indigenous communities in Canada. I will certainly have an off-line conversation with the honourable member, if he so wishes, about a particular issue, but I can assure him that in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, we have had to assist employers to introduce flexibilities\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Yurdiga.\n",
      "Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, in my riding, the City of Cold Lake has been in dispute with the federal government for many years over payment in lieu of taxes. My office has sent many letters over the years regarding the PILT dispute. Could the Minister of Public Services and Procurement give me a rough estimate of when I will receive a response from the minister's office to my first letter, from 2017, and my letters from 2018, 2019 and 2020?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti: Madam Chair, I can assure the honourable member that I will go to the minister, and we will come back with an answer to his question.\nMr. David Yurdiga: How much longer does the minister intend to perpetuate the ongoing PILT dispute, which is in excess of $11 million, with the City of Cold Lake?\nHon. David Lametti: Madam Chair, once again, I can assure the honourable member that I will speak with the minister and get an answer to his question.\n",
      "Mr. David Yurdiga: Well, do you know what? I've been writing letters to the department for many years. When you say you're going to get back to me, I really have a hard time believing that. Will the minister agree to follow the prior recommendations of the dispute advisory panel that were accepted by the minister?\nHon. David Lametti: Madam Chair, I can assure the honourable member that I will check with the minister and that she will return to the member in due course.\n",
      "Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, the drug Trikafta has been proven to increase the quality of life for 90% of cystic fibrosis patients. Two weeks ago, my office sent a letter to the Minister of Health about the boy in my riding named Cael, who through the special access program is able to get Trikafta in Canada. I requested that the minister use her powers to fast-track Trikafta for commercial use, but I have yet to receive a response back. When will the minister make a decision on Trikafta?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: Madam Chair, I'm glad to hear that Cael was able to access Trikafta through the special access program. In fact, that program is very helpful for people who are seeking access to medication that's not currently marketed in Canada. As the member opposite knows, Vertex has not applied to market Trikafta in Canada, but we look forward to their application, and I encourage him to write a letter to the manufacturer to also encourage them.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go now to the honourable member for Vancouver Granville, Ms. Wilson-Raybould.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould (Vancouver Granville, Ind.): Thank you, Chair. I was very troubled to hear that a CBC radio host in the Yukon felt compelled to resign because, as an indigenous person, she could not speak her truth. While we know the Broadcasting Act states that the Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the linguistic duality and multicultural and multiracial nature of Canadian society and the special place of indigenous peoples, it would seem there are some challenges. Therefore, does the Minister of Heritage share the concern of some journalists that problems of systemic racism in Canada are still existing within the institution of the CBC, and will the government now acknowledge the need to recognize the jurisdiction of indigenous governments?\n",
      "Hon. Steven Guilbeault (Minister of Canadian Heritage): Thank you, Madame Chair; and I thank the member for this important question. As stated by the Prime Minister on numerous occasions, our government recognizes that systemic racism exists in Canada, and we have made a commitment to do everything we can to combat it in whichever organization of the Canadian government.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould: Thank you. When I was in the government, and as a minister, I learned the term red meat issues. I understand these issues to be ones that challenge societal norms, that are not politically expedient to address because they can lose you votes, even though addressing them is morally right and a smart thing to do. Mostly these are issues addressing inequality and the most marginalized in our society. In the justice system, examples include mandatory minimum penalties, defunding police, and even investing in restorative justice. Red-meat issues often become defining issues for society and for governments as the world changes. Surely now these issues are politically less of a consideration than the tragic reality of even more slain indigenous Canadians at the hands of police, or thousands of indigenous people still incarcerated or living in poverty. Will this government please finally commit to the necessary work originally promised in 2015 and repeal in the justice system the vast majority of mandatory minimum penalties, assuring the necessary discretion for judges, and meaningfully invest in restorative justice measures?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti: Madame Chair, I thank the honourable member for her question, as well as for her work as Minister of Justice, and indeed my predecessor. This is an important time. This is a time when we recognize systemic racism. This is a time when we recognize systemic over-incarceration of indigenous peoples, of black peoples, in our criminal justice system. This is a time when we need to look at all potential options to reduce what is a shameful overrepresentation in our criminal justice system. Too often racialized peoples and indigenous peoples have experienced prejudice and systemic discrimination in our justice system, and that has to change.\n",
      "Hon. Jody Wilson-Raybould: I'll go on to another red meat issue. In British Columbia we are in the fifth year of the opioid overdose public health emergency crisis. Sadly, May marks the deadliest month of overdose-related deaths. We are halfway into the year and have currently passed 500 deaths caused by overdose. Many of the deaths are related to COVID-19 measures that have prevented people from accessing supervised consumption sites, so they are overdosing alone. While the provinces welcomed the federal backing of safe supply exemption back in March, it is to expire in September of 2020. Echoing the call of the chief coroner of B.C. and Dr. Henry, more is needed from the federal government, more action. Will the government provide the necessary supports to the province and help support safe supply initiatives in the provinces?\n",
      "Hon. Patty Hajdu: It's been a pleasure to work with the Province of British Columbia on innovative ways to work on the tragic situation of opioid overdose. I remain committed to working with the province and in fact any province that wants to work towards solutions that treat people who use substances with the dignity they deserve. Madam Chair, this is a complex issue. We're working closely with our partners to make sure that we can prevent more lives from being lost.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for South OkanaganWest Kootenay, Mr. Cannings.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Cannings (South OkanaganWest Kootenay, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for SkeenaBulkley Valley. In my riding, Theo's in Penticton is a beloved restaurant. They've been serving great food for 40 years, but now they're struggling, because they don't qualify for the emergency wage subsidy. Why is that? The original owners retired last year and sold it to another operator. The new owner can't use a year-to-year comparison to apply for the wage subsidy because he didn't own the restaurant last spring. He is forced to use receipts from January and February, the darkest doldrums of the restaurant year, to compare with the results from May, traditionally one of their best months. Now he has to compete with other local restaurants that can access the subsidy. When will the government fix this inequity and let Theo's compete and survive?\n",
      "Hon. Mona Fortier: Madam Chair, the Canada emergency wage subsidy is supporting over 2.5 million workers across the country. To help even more businesses support their workers and rehire people as they reopen, our government is extending the CEWS, and we will continue to extend the CEWS for an additional 12 weeks to August 29 to ensure that Canadian workers continue to have the support they need during these very difficult times. By extending eligibility, our government is ensuring that more Canadian workers in more sectors have the support they need.\n",
      "Mr. Richard Cannings: The owner just wants to be able to apply for the wage subsidy, and right now he cannot, and he will not be able to. Thousands of other businesses are hit that way as well. I'd like to move on to forestry. Canada's forest sector has been declared essential during this pandemic, but it's been hit hard after a very difficult 2019. Despite soft markets and thousands out of work, government support programs have left many Canadian forest product companies behind. In my riding, the pulp mill in Castlegar is closing for the month of July because local sawmills aren't producing enough wood chips. What is the government going to do to finally support Canadian forestry workers and communities?\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The time is almost up, but I will allow for the answer from the honourable minister.\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Thank you, Madam Chair. We have supported and we will continue to support the forestry sector, including through regional development programs. In fact, in Quebec, partnering with Les Bois Francs DV Inc., we have widened market access to our products and updated technology systems. In North Bay we've partnered with the Canadian Wood Council to promote the sector. In Vancouver we're working with FPInnovations to create the indigenous forest sector technical support program. We are supporting the forestry sector and its different needs region by region.\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Now we go to the honourable member for SkeenaBulkley Valley, Mr. Bachrach.\n",
      "Mr. Taylor Bachrach (SkeenaBulkley Valley, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to pick up where my colleague left off, with B.C.'s forest industry. What we've seen in B.C. are multiple rounds of mill shutdowns and start-ups, and in some cases this has made it difficult for forestry workers to qualify for EI. My question to the minister is this: Will the minister work to make the EI program more flexible for forestry workers, similar to what this government has done for oil and gas workers?\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Madam Chair, in the oil and gas sector we have focused on workers. That has been key in the inactive and orphan well program, which we are working on with the provincial governments of Saskatchewan, British Columbia and Alberta. The focus on workers has assured that success, and we will continue to focus on workers in all the industries, particularly our natural resource industry, as they go through this extraordinarily difficult time.\n",
      "Mr. Taylor Bachrach: Madam Chair, reforestation is a very important part of the forest industry in the riding I represent, and people were keenly interested to hear this government's plan to plant two billion trees in the next 10 years. That's a lot of trees. I'm wondering if the minister could tell us how many trees are going to be planted under this program by the end of this season.\n",
      "Hon. Seamus O'Regan: Madam Chair, this government is committed to two billion trees. We are working with forestry associations, the industry and with individual companies to ensure this tree-planting season will be one of the largest the country has ever seen.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The floor goes to the honourable member for Rivire-du-Nord.\n",
      "Mr. Rhal Fortin (Rivire-du-Nord, BQ): MadamChair, last week, the government introduced BillC-17 and the Minister of Justice sent us briefing notes in which he said that it was important to suspend a number of time limits and to extend others, and that the failure to do so could have important repercussions on Canadians, their families, their situations, their finances and their ability to exercise their rights. We in the Bloc Qubcois agree with that. When are we going to talk about it?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti: MadamChair, the contents of BillC-17 are clearly very important. We have addressed the mandatory time limits in federal legislation as well as certain time limits that courts may not be able to handle. It is very important that we address this issue. That is why the law\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr.Fortin, you have the floor.\n",
      "Mr. Rhal Fortin: MadamChair, we agree that it is important. I concur. The minister's briefing notes say that, among other things, when it comes to divorcewhich means children are involved people are waiting on custody rights, child support and visitation rights. The minister pointed out that the national security review would require consultations if no decision is made in the prescribed time frame. It could pose a national security risk. It is really a big deal. When are we going to debate it?\n",
      "Hon. David Lametti: MadamChair, I completely agree with my honourable colleague. The issue needs to be addressed. That is why it is in the bill. That is another reason to debate the bill. I beseech my colleagues opposite to debate it with us.\n",
      "Mr. Rhal Fortin: MadamChair, what a coincidence, because I beseech my colleague opposite to debate it with us. That is what we are asking. Last week, the leader of the Bloc Qubcois asked the Liberal government to debate BillC-17 today. He did not get an answer. It does not seem to matter. Richard Wagner, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who is hardly a dimwit or greenhorn, told us that the justice system needs to be modernized. As recently as this past Saturday in LaPresse, Justice Wagner said that it is essential that the Criminal Code be amended to address the backlog of court proceedings. When will the Liberal government opposite pull up its socks, do its job, govern the federation, sit down with the opposition and discuss the vital matters in BillC-17?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, if I were my colleague, I would be a little embarrassed, because the bill was sent to the Bloc Qubcois several days in advance. They received a technical note several days in advance. We were all available to take questions. When we asked for the support of the Bloc Qubcois and the other parties to debate itwe were not even asking them to vote in favour of the billthey refused.\n",
      "Mr. Rhal Fortin: MadamChair, we never refused to debate it. Actually, we were the ones who asked to debate it. What exactly does debate it mean? We set some conditions. For example, we asked the Liberals to put the money back into the wage subsidy fund and to commit to dip into it no longer. Are we asking too much of our colleagues opposite?\nHon. Pablo Rodriguez: Can my colleague explain to me what the emergency wage subsidy has to do with a bill about justice? This is an absolutely fundamental piece of legislation. We wanted to debate it, but they refused to do so.\n",
      "Mr. Rhal Fortin: MadamChair, I would like nothing better than to explain it to him, but I must remind him that he is the leader of the party in power, the party that is supposed to govern the country. So I do not know why he is asking me that. My party proposed that we debate this today but we did not get an answer. Meanwhile, court time limits are running out and people are losing rights. I am thinking of families, child support, child custody, labour law disputes in Federal Court, marine transportation, interprovincial transportation, aviation, banks, and those with grievances waiting for a Federal Court ruling. The whole system, the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal, everything is on hold because nobody in the government wants to do their job. We want to discuss BillC-17. When can we talk about it?\n",
      "Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, we have done our job. We have introduced the bill. We informed them in advance. We told them they could ask us any questions they wanted. We asked for a debate in the House. However, when we asked the Bloc Qubcois if they wanted to debate the bill, they said no, instead of doing what they usually do and saying yes.\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for Essex, Mr. Lewis.\n",
      "Mr. Chris Lewis (Essex, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair. When the CERB runs out, many workers in my riding of Essex will not have sufficient hours to collect their EI benefits. In early July, the midnight shift at Chrysler will be eliminated. Because of the shutdown, a mom-to-be who had just returned to work in January, and several hundred of her fellow employees, may not have the 600 hours required for regular or EI parental benefits. Immediate action is needed. What is the government doing now to backstop these workers?\n",
      "Hon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, the Canada emergency response benefit has been providing much-needed help to Canadian workers across the country who have stopped working due to COVID-19. We know that there is still a lot of uncertainty for many Canadian workers, and we know that many will be exhausting their benefits in the weeks to come. We will have more to share soon, as early as this week, on our continuing efforts to support Canadian workers and make sure that help is available during this\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Go ahead, Mr. Lewis.\n",
      "Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Minister, for the answer. The EI system needs to be fixed. Even before the shutdown, the system was deeply flawed. Will this government commit to a complete review and overhaul of the EI system?\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we have been there for Canadian workers. We will continue to make sure that we make the necessary investments in the EI delivery system and modernize it to continue to meet\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.\n",
      "Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. Small businesses have been hit extremely hard by the COVID-19 shutdown. Many have already been forced into bankruptcy. Much uncertainty lies ahead. As the economy reopens, what is the government doing to help small businesses recover?\nHon. Mary Ng: Madam Chair, today we are seeing small businesses that have been helped, whether it is getting access to the small business loan, which some are also using in the restart as they are safely restarting, or getting help with their payroll, helping them keep their employees\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.\n",
      "Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. Employees are key to a small business's success. How will the government incentivize workers to return to their jobs when recalled?\nThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister can give a brief answer.\nHon. Mary Ng: The Canada emergency wage subsidy is an excellent program to help those employees stay employed and for those employers who are looking at rehiring them right now during this restart process.\n",
      "Mr. Chris Lewis: Madam Chair, many of my constituents are in a committed cross-border relationship and have not been able to see their partners in quite some time. The current restrictions are arbitrary. Denmark has found a fair resolution. Will Canada adopt the Danish model, and if not, why not?\n",
      "Hon. Bill Blair: Madam Chair, as we said from the outset, we've implemented restrictions at the U.S. border on non-essential travel with a single purpose in mind: to protect the health and safety of Canadians. As the member is aware, just last week we introduced new measures that allow people in family relationships to stay together as long as they commit to the necessary 14-day period of quarantine. We'll continue to work with families. Our intention is to keep people together, but mostly to keep people safe.\n",
      "Mr. Chris Lewis: Madam Chair, with regard to child care, as our economy continues to open, parents are facing a stark choice: Who will care for their children? What's the plan to provide access to child care so parents can confidently return to work?\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we are of course committed to continuing to make the record investments that we've been making in child care. Since 2015 we've created over 40,000 affordable child care spaces. We're committed to creating an additional 250,000 before-school and after-school child care spaces. We will continue to invest in this sector because we understand that without investment\n",
      "The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.\nMr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. It sounds as though this government has a desire to force parents to choose between their job and care for their child. Can the government please respond to that quote?\nHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, nothing could be further from the truth. We are committed to the child care sector. Our investments and our results prove the opposite of what the member is asserting.   Mr. Chris Lewis: Madam Chair\n"
    ],
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  {
    "id": 78,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The meeting included an introduction to the project, the mechanics of training the data, standardizing the data for the models, the time involved, and planning efficient use of computational resources . The team members shared and discussed the existing model as well as the tests they intended to run. There was a problem standardizing labels as well as converting HTK labels to the format that the team wanted. Adding more dimensions to the current model was also causing concern because of the upper bound on computational resources.",
    "docs": [
      "Grad D: Channel one .\nPhD G: Test .\nPhD E: Hello .\nGrad D: Channel three .\nPhD G: Test .\nPhD A: Uh - oh .\n",
      "Professor F: So you think we 're going now , yes ? OK , good . Alright Going again Uh {disfmarker} So we 're gonna go around as before , and uh do {disfmarker} do our digits . Uh transcript one three one one dash one three three zero . {comment} three two three {comment} four seven six five {comment} five three one six two four one {comment} six seven {comment} seven {comment} eight {comment} nine zero nine four zero zero three {comment} zero one five eight {comment} one seven three five three {comment} two six eight zero {comment} three six two four three zero seven {comment} four {comment} five zero six nine four {comment} seven four {comment} eight five seven {comment} nine six one five {comment} O seven eight O two {comment} zero nine six zero four zero zero {comment} one {comment} two {comment} Uh {disfmarker} Yeah , you don't actually n need to say the name .\n",
      "Grad C: OK , {vocalsound} this is Barry Chen and I am reading transcript\nProfessor F: That 'll probably be bleeped out .\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor F: So . That 's if these are anonymized , but {vocalsound} Yeah {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Oh . {comment} OK .\nProfessor F: uh {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} not that there 's anything defamatory about uh {disfmarker} eight five seven or {vocalsound} or anything , but\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , anyway . Uh {disfmarker} so here 's what I have for {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was just jotting down things I think th w that we should do today . Uh {disfmarker} This is what I have for an agenda so far Um , We should talk a little bit about the plans for the uh {disfmarker} the field trip next week . Uh {disfmarker} a number of us are doing a field trip to uh Uh {disfmarker} OGI And uh {disfmarker} mostly uh First though about the logistics for it . Then maybe later on in the meeting we should talk about what we actually you know , might accomplish . Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , in and {pause} kind of go around {disfmarker} see what people have been doing {disfmarker} talk about that , {pause} a r progress report . Um , Essentially . Um {disfmarker} And then uh {disfmarker} Another topic I had was that uh {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Dave here had uh said uh \" Give me something to do . \" And I {disfmarker} I have {disfmarker} I have uh {disfmarker} failed so far in doing that . And so maybe we can discuss that a little bit . If we find some holes in some things that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} someone could use some help with , he 's {disfmarker} he 's volunteering to help .\n",
      "PhD A: I 've got to move a bunch of furniture .\nProfessor F: OK , always count on a {vocalsound} serious comment from that corner . So , um , uh , and uh , then uh , talk a little bit about {disfmarker} about disks and resource {disfmarker} resource issues that {disfmarker} that 's starting to get worked out . And then , anything else anybody has that isn't in that list ? Uh {disfmarker}\nGrad D: I was just wondering , does this mean the battery 's dying and I should change it ?\n",
      "Professor F: Uh I think that means the battery 's O K . {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Let me see .\nProfessor F: d {disfmarker} do you\nGrad D: Oh OK , so th\nPhD A: Yeah , that 's good . You 're alright ?\nGrad D: Cuz it 's full .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad D: Alright .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . Yeah . It looks full of electrons . OK . Plenty of electrons left there . OK , so , um , uh . OK , so , uh , I wanted to start this with this mundane thing . Um {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} it was {disfmarker} it was kind of my bright idea to have us take a plane that leaves at seven twenty in the morning .\nGrad C: Oh , yeah , that 's right .\n",
      "Professor F: Um . Uh {vocalsound} this is uh {disfmarker} The reason I did it uh was because otherwise for those of us who have to come back the same day it is really not much of a {disfmarker} of a visit . Uh {disfmarker} So um the issue is how {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how would we ever accomplish that ? Uh {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what part of town do you live in ?\nGrad C: Um , I live in , um , the corner of campus . The , um , southeast corner .\n",
      "Professor F: OK . OK , so would it be easier {disfmarker} those of you who are not , you know , used to this area , it can be very tricky to get to the airport at {disfmarker} at uh , you know , six thirty . Um . So . Would it be easier for you if you came here and I drove you ? Yeah ? Yeah , yeah , OK .\nPhD G: Yeah , perhaps , yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah . Sure .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: OK , so if {disfmarker} if everybody can get here at six .\nPhD E: At six .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , I 'm afraid we need to do that to get there on time .\nGrad C: Six , OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah , so . Oh boy . Anyway , so .\nPhD A: Will that {pause} be enough time ?\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah , so I 'll just pull up in front at six and just be out front . And , uh , and yeah , that 'll be plenty of time . It 'll take {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it won't be bad traffic that time of day and {disfmarker} and uh\n",
      "PhD A: I guess once you get past the bridge {pause} that that would be the worst .\nPhD B: Yeah , Oakland .\nProfessor F: Going to Oakland .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nGrad C: Oakland .\nPhD A: Once you get past the turnoff to the {pause} Bay Bridge .\nProfessor F: Bridge oh , the turnoff to the bridge\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Won't even do that .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nProfessor F: I mean , just go down Martin Luther King .\nPhD A: Yeah . OK . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: And then Martin Luther King to nine - eighty to eight - eighty ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: and it 's {disfmarker} it 'd take us , tops uh thirty minutes to get there .\nPhD A: Oh , I {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: So that leaves us fifty minutes before the plane {disfmarker} it 'll just {disfmarker} yeah . So Great , OK so that 'll It 's {disfmarker} I mean , it 's still not going to be really easy but {disfmarker} well Particularly for {disfmarker} for uh {disfmarker} for Barry and me , we 're not {disfmarker} we 're not staying overnight so we don't need to bring anything particularly except for {vocalsound} uh {disfmarker} a pad of paper and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So , and , uh you , two have to bring a little bit\n",
      "Grad C: OK .\nProfessor F: but uh {disfmarker} you know , don't {disfmarker} don't bring a footlocker and we 'll be OK So .\nGrad C: s So just {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: W you 're staying overnight . I figured you wouldn't need a great big suitcase , yeah .\nPhD G: Oh yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor F: That 's sort of {pause} {vocalsound} one night . So . Anyway . OK .\nGrad C: So , s six AM , in front .\nProfessor F: Six AM in front .\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , I 'll be here . Uh {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll give you my phone number , If I 'm not here for a few m after a few minutes then\nGrad C: Wake you up .\nProfessor F: Nah , I 'll be fine . I just , uh {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} for me it just means getting up a half an hour earlier than I usually do . Not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not a lot ,\nGrad C: OK . Wednesday .\n",
      "Professor F: so OK , that was the real real important stuff . Um , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I figured maybe wait on the potential goals for the meeting uh {disfmarker} until we talk about wh what 's been going on . So , uh , what 's been going on ? Why don't we start {disfmarker} start over here .\nPhD G: Um . {vocalsound} Well , preparation of the French test data actually .\nProfessor F: OK .\n",
      "PhD G: So , {vocalsound} it means that um , well , it is , uh , a digit French database of microphone speech , downsampled to eight kilohertz and I 've added noise to one part , with the {disfmarker} actually the Aurora - two noises . And , @ @ so this is a training part . And then {pause} the remaining part , I use for testing and {disfmarker} with other kind of noises . So we can {disfmarker} So this is almost ready . I 'm preparing the {disfmarker} the HTK baseline for this task . And , yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: OK Uh , So the HTK base lines {disfmarker} so this is using mel cepstra and so on , or {disfmarker} ? Yeah . OK .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: And again , I guess the p the plan is , uh , to uh {disfmarker} then given this {disfmarker} What 's the plan again ?\nPhD G: The plan with {pause} these data ?\n",
      "Professor F: With {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} Does i Just remind me of what {disfmarker} what you were going to do with the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what 's {disfmarker} y You just described what you 've been doing . So if you could remind me of what you 're going to be doing .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Oh , this is {disfmarker} yeah , yeah .\nPhD G: Uh , yeah .\nGrad C: Tell him about the cube .\n",
      "PhD G: Well . The cube ? I should tell him about the cube ?\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Oh ! Cube . Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD E: Fill in the cube .\n",
      "PhD G: Uh we {disfmarker} actually we want to , mmm , Uh , {vocalsound} uh , analyze three dimensions , the feature dimension , the {pause} training data dimension , and the test data dimension . Um . Well , what we want to do is first we have number for each {pause} uh task . So we have the um , TI - digit task , the Italian task , the French task {pause} and the Finnish task .\nProfessor F: Yeah ?\n",
      "PhD G: So we have numbers with {pause} uh {disfmarker} systems {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} I mean neural networks trained on the task data . And then to have systems with neural networks trained on , {vocalsound} uh , data from the same language , if possible , with , well , using a more generic database , which is phonetically {disfmarker} phonetically balanced , and . Um .\nProfessor F: So - so we had talked {disfmarker} I guess we had talked at one point about maybe , the language ID corpus ?\nPhD G: Yeah . So .\n",
      "Professor F: Is that a possibility for that ?\n",
      "PhD G: Ye - uh {disfmarker} {pause} Yeah , but , uh these corpus , w w there is a CallHome and a CallFriend also , The CallFriend is for language ind identification . Well , anyway , these corpus are all telephone speech . So , um . {vocalsound} This could be a {disfmarker} {pause} a problem for {disfmarker} Why ? Because uh , uh , the {disfmarker} the SpeechDat databases are not telephone speech . They are downsampled to eight kilohertz but {disfmarker} but they are not {vocalsound} uh with telephone bandwidth .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . That 's really funny isn't it ? I mean cuz th this whole thing is for {pause} developing new standards for the telephone .\nGrad C: Telephone .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah , but the {disfmarker} the idea is to compute the feature before {pause} the {disfmarker} before sending them to the {disfmarker} Well , {pause} you don't {disfmarker} do not send speech , you send features , computed on th the {disfmarker} {pause} the device ,\n",
      "Professor F: Mm - hmm . Yeah , I know , but the reason {disfmarker}\nPhD G: or {disfmarker} Well .\nProfessor F: Oh I see , so your point is that it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's uh {disfmarker} the features are computed locally , and so they aren't necessarily telephone bandwidth , uh or telephone distortions .\nPhD G: So you {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD A: Did you {pause} happen to find out anything about the OGI multilingual database ?\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , that 's wh that 's wh that 's what I meant .\nPhD G: Yeah , it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: I said {disfmarker} @ @ , there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's an OGI language ID , not the {disfmarker} not the , uh {disfmarker} the CallFriend is a {disfmarker} is a , uh , LDC w thing , right ?\n",
      "PhD G: Yea - Yeah , there are also two other databases . One they call the multi - language database , and another one is a twenty - two language , something like that . But it 's also telephone speech .\nPhD A: Oh , they are ? OK .\nPhD G: Uh . Well , nnn .\nProfessor F: But I 'm not sure {disfmarker}\nPhD G: So {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: I mean , we ' r e e The bandwidth shouldn't be such an issue right ? Because e e this is downsampled and {disfmarker} and filtered , right ? So it 's just the fact that it 's not telephone . And there are so many other differences between these different databases . I mean some of this stuff 's recorded in the car , and some of it 's {disfmarker} I mean there 's {disfmarker} there 's many different acoustic differences . So I 'm not sure if {disfmarker} . I mean , unless we 're going to include a bunch of car recordings in the {disfmarker} in the training database , I 'm not sure if it 's {disfmarker} completely rules it out\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: if our {disfmarker} if we {disfmarker} if our major goal is to have phonetic context and you figure that there 's gonna be a mismatch in acoustic conditions does it make it much worse f to sort of add another mismatch , if you will .\nPhD G: Mmm .\nProfessor F: Uh , i i I {disfmarker} I guess the question is how important is it to {disfmarker} for us to get multiple languages uh , in there .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , but {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . {vocalsound} Um . Yeah . Well , actually , for the moment if we w do not want to use these phone databases , we {disfmarker} we already have uh {disfmarker} English , Spanish and French uh , with microphone speech . \nProfessor F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nPhD G: So .\nProfessor F: So that 's what you 're thinking of using is sort of the multi the equivalent of the multiple ?\nPhD G: Well . Yeah , for the multilingual part we were thinking of using these three databases .\n",
      "Professor F: And for the difference in phonetic context {pause} that you {disfmarker} ? Provide that .\nPhD G: Well , this {disfmarker} Uh , actually , these three databases are um generic databases .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: So w f for {disfmarker} for uh Italian , which is close to Spanish , French and , i i uh , TI - digits we have both uh , digits {pause} training data and also {pause} more general training data . So . Mmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Well , we also have this Broadcast News that we were talking about taking off the disk , which is {disfmarker} {vocalsound} is microphone data for {disfmarker} for English .\nPhD G: Yeah . Yeah , perhaps {disfmarker} yeah , there is also TIMIT .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: We could use TIMIT .\nProfessor F: Right . Yeah , so there 's plenty of stuff around . OK , so anyway , th the basic plan is to , uh , test this cube . Yes .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD E: To fill in the cube .\n",
      "Professor F: To fill i fill it in , yeah . OK .\nPhD G: Yeah , and perhaps , um {disfmarker} {pause} We were thinking that perhaps the cross - language issue is not , uh , so big of a issue . Well , w w we {disfmarker} perhaps we should not focus too much on that cross - language stuff . I mean , uh , training {disfmarker} training a net on a language and testing a for another language .\nProfessor F: Uh - huh . But that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Mmm . Perhaps the most important is to have neural networks trained on the target languages . But , uh , with a general database {disfmarker} general databases . u So that th Well , the {disfmarker} the guy who has to develop an application with one language can use the net trained o on that language , or a generic net ,\nProfessor F: Uh , depen it depen it depends how you mean \" using the net \" .\nPhD G: but not trained on a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: So , if you 're talking about for producing these discriminative features {pause} that we 're talking about {pause} you can't do that .\nPhD G: Mmm .\nProfessor F: Because {disfmarker} because the {disfmarker} what they 're asking for is {disfmarker} is a feature set . Right ? And so , uh , we 're the ones who have been weird by {disfmarker} by doing this training . But if we say , \" No , you have to have a different feature set for each language , \" I think this is ver gonna be very bad .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Oh .\nPhD G: You think so .\nGrad C: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Oh .\nProfessor F: So {disfmarker} Oh yeah .\nPhD G: Mmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah . I mean , in principle , I mean conceptually , it 's sort of like they want a re @ @ {comment} well , they want a replacement for mel cepstra .\nPhD G: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor F: So , we say \" OK , this is the year two thousand , we 've got something much better than mel cepstra . It 's , you know , gobbledy - gook . \" OK ? And so {vocalsound} we give them these gobbledy - gook features but these gobbledy - gook features are supposed to be good for any language .\nPhD G: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Cuz you don't know who 's gonna call , and you know , I mean so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh , uh {disfmarker} how do you know what language it is ? Somebody picks up the phone . So thi this is their image . Someone picks up the phone , right ?\nPhD G: Well , I {comment} chh {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: And {disfmarker} and he {disfmarker} he picks up the ph\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , but the {disfmarker} the application is {disfmarker} there is a target language for the application .\nProfessor F: Yeah . y y y\nPhD G: So , if a {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Well . But , no but , y you {disfmarker} you pick up the phone ,\nPhD G: Well .\nProfessor F: you talk on the phone ,\nPhD G: Yeah ?\nProfessor F: and it sends features out . OK , so the phone doesn't know what a {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what your language is .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , if {disfmarker} Yeah . If it 's th in the phone , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: But that 's the image that they have .\nPhD G: well , it {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that could be th at the server 's side ,\nProfessor F: It could be ,\nPhD G: and , well . Mmm , yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: but that 's the image they have , right ? So that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} I mean , one could argue all over the place about how things really will be in ten years . But the particular image that the cellular industry has right now is that it 's distributed speech recognition , where the , uh , uh , probabilistic part , and {disfmarker} and s semantics and so forth are all on the servers , and you compute features of the {disfmarker} uh , on the phone . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's what we 're involved in . We might {disfmarker} might or might not agree that that 's the way it will be in ten years , but that 's {disfmarker} that 's {disfmarker} that 's what they 're asking for . So {disfmarker} so I think that {disfmarker} th th it is an important issue whether it works cross - language . Now , it 's the OGI , uh , folks ' perspective right now that probably that 's not the biggest deal . And that the biggest deal is the , um envir acoustic - environment mismatch . And they may very well be right , but I {disfmarker} I was hoping we could just do a test and determine if that was true . If that 's true , we don't need to worry so much . Maybe {disfmarker} maybe we have a couple languages in the training set and that gives us enough breadth uh , uh , that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that the rest doesn't matter . Um , the other thing is , uh , this notion of training to uh {disfmarker} which I {disfmarker} I guess they 're starting to look at up there , {comment} training to something more like articulatory features . Uh , and if you have something that 's just good for distinguishing different articulatory features that should just be good across , you know , a wide range of languages .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Uh , but {disfmarker} Yeah , so I don't th I know {disfmarker} unfortunately I don't {disfmarker} I see what you 're comi where you 're coming from , I think , but I don't think we can ignore it .\n",
      "PhD G: So we {disfmarker} we really have to do test with a real cross - language . I mean , tr for instance training on English and testing on Italian , or {disfmarker} Or we can train {disfmarker} or else , uh , can we train a net on , uh , a range of languages and {disfmarker} which can include the test {disfmarker} the test @ @ the target language ,\nGrad C: Test on an unseen .\nPhD G: or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , so , um , there 's {disfmarker} there 's , uh {disfmarker} This is complex . So , ultimately , uh , as I was saying , I think it doesn't fit within their image that you switch nets based on language . Now , can you include , uh , the {disfmarker} the target language ?\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Um , from a purist 's standpoint it 'd be nice not to because then you can say when {disfmarker} because surely someone is going to say at some point , \" OK , so you put in the German and the Finnish .\n",
      "PhD G: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , now , what do you do , uh , when somebody has Portuguese ? \" you know ? Um , and {disfmarker} Uh , however , you aren't {disfmarker} it isn't actually a constraint in this evaluation . So I would say if it looks like there 's a big difference to put it in , then we 'd make note of it , and then we probably put in the other , because we have so many other problems in trying to get things to work well here that {disfmarker} that , you know , it 's not so bad as long as we {disfmarker} we note it and say , \" Look , we did do this \" .\n",
      "PhD G: Mmm ?\nPhD A: And so , ideally , what you 'd wanna do is you 'd wanna run it with and without the target language and the training set for a wide range of languages .\nProfessor F: Uh . Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah , perhaps . Yeah .\nPhD A: And that way you can say , \" Well , \" you know , \" we 're gonna build it for what we think are {pause} the most common ones \" ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: but if that {disfmarker} somebody uses it with a different language , you know , \" here 's what 's you 're l here 's what 's likely to happen . \"\nProfessor F: Yeah , cuz the truth is , is that it 's {disfmarker} it 's not like there are {disfmarker} I mean , al although there are thousands of languages , uh , from uh , uh , the point of view of cellular companies , there aren't .\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor F: There 's {disfmarker} {vocalsound} you know , there 's fifty or something , you know ? So , uh , an and they aren't {disfmarker} you know , with the exception of Finnish , which I guess it 's pretty different from most {disfmarker} most things . uh , it 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh {disfmarker} most of them are like at least some of the others . And so , our guess that Spanish is like Italian , and {disfmarker} and so on . I guess Finnish is a {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is a little bit like Hungarian , supposedly , right ?\n",
      "PhD A: I don't know anything about Finnish .\nProfessor F: Or is {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} well , I kn oh , well I know that H uh , H I mean , I 'm not a linguist , but I guess Hungarian and Finnish and one of the {disfmarker} one of the languages from the former Soviet Union are in this sort of same family .\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: But they 're just these , you know , uh {disfmarker} countries that are pretty far apart from one another , have {disfmarker} I guess , people rode in on horses and brought their {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD G: The {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad C: Oh , my turn .\nProfessor F: Your turn .\n",
      "Grad C: Oh , OK . Um , Let 's see , I {disfmarker} I spent the last week , uh , looking over Stephane 's shoulder . And {disfmarker} {vocalsound} and understanding some of the data . I re - installed , um , um , HTK , the free version , so , um , everybody 's now using three point O , which is the same version that , uh , OGI is using .\nProfessor F: Oh , good .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . So , without {disfmarker} without any licensing big deals , or anything like that . And , um , so we 've been talking about this {disfmarker} this , uh , cube thing , and it 's beginning more and more looking like the , uh , the Borge cube thing . It 's really gargantuan . Um , but I I 'm {disfmarker} Am I {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: So are {disfmarker} are you going to be assimilated ?\nPhD A: Resistance is futile .\n",
      "Grad C: Exactly . Um , yeah , so I I 've been looking at , uh , uh , TIMIT stuff . Um , the {disfmarker} the stuff that we 've been working on with TIMIT , trying to get a , um {disfmarker} a labels file so we can , uh , train up a {disfmarker} train up a net on TIMIT and test , um , the difference between this net trained on TIMIT and a net trained on digits alone . Um , and seeing if {disfmarker} if it hurts or helps .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: Anyway .\n",
      "Professor F: And again , when y just to clarify , when you 're talking about training up a net , you 're talking about training up a net for a tandem approach ?\nGrad C: Yeah , yeah . Um . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: And {disfmarker} and the inputs are PLP and delta and that sort of thing ,\nGrad C: Well , the inputs are one dimension of the cube ,\nProfessor F: or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad C: which , um , we 've talked about it being , uh , PLP , um , M F C Cs , um , J - JRASTA , JRASTA - LDA {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Hmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah , but your initial things you 're making one choice there ,\nGrad C: Yeah ,\nProfessor F: right ?\nGrad C: right .\nProfessor F: Which is PLP , or something ?\nGrad C: Um , I {disfmarker} I haven't {disfmarker} I haven't decided on {disfmarker} on the initial thing .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Probably {disfmarker} probably something like PLP . Yeah .\nPhD G: Hmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Um , so {disfmarker} so you take PLP and you {disfmarker} you , uh , do it {disfmarker} uh , you {disfmarker} you , uh , use HTK with it with the transformed features using a neural net that 's trained . And the training could either be from Digits itself or from TIMIT .\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "Professor F: And that 's the {disfmarker} and , and th and then the testing would be these other things which {disfmarker} which {disfmarker} which might be foreign language .\nGrad C: Right . Right .\nProfessor F: I see . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I get in the picture about the cube .\nGrad C: Yeah . Maybe {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: OK .\nGrad C: OK . Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor F: OK . Um , I mean , those listening to this will not have a picture either , so , um , I guess I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not any worse off . But but at some point {disfmarker} somebody should just show me the cube . It sounds s I {disfmarker} I get {disfmarker} I think I get the general idea of it ,\nGrad C: Yeah , yeah ,\nProfessor F: yeah .\nPhD A: So , when you said that you were getting the labels for TIMIT , {comment} um , are y what do you mean by that ?\n",
      "Grad C: b May Mm - hmm . Oh , I 'm just {disfmarker} I 'm just , uh , transforming them from the , um , the standard TIMIT transcriptions into {disfmarker} into a nice long huge P - file to do training .\nPhD A: Mmm . Were the digits , um , hand - labeled for phones ?\nGrad C: Um , the {disfmarker} the digits {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Or were they {disfmarker} those labels automatically derived ?\n",
      "Grad C: Oh yeah , those were {disfmarker} those were automatically derived by {disfmarker} by Dan using , um , embedded {disfmarker} embedded training and alignment .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor F: Ah , but which Dan ?\nGrad C: Uh , Ellis . Right ?\nProfessor F: OK . OK .\nGrad C: Yeah . So .\nPhD A: I was just wondering because that test you 're t\nGrad C: Uh - huh .\n",
      "PhD A: I {disfmarker} I think you 're doing this test because you want to determine whether or not , uh , having s general speech performs as well as having specific {pause} speech .\nGrad C: That 's right .\nProfessor F: Well , especially when you go over the different languages again , because you 'd {disfmarker} the different languages have different words for the different digits ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . And I was {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: so it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: yeah , so I was just wondering if the fact that TIMIT {disfmarker} you 're using the hand - labeled stuff from TIMIT might be {disfmarker} confuse the results that you get .\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker} I think it would , but {disfmarker} but on the other hand it might be better .\nPhD A: Right , but if it 's better , it may be better because {pause} it was hand - labeled .\nProfessor F: Oh yeah , but still @ @ probably use it .\nPhD A: Yeah . OK .\n",
      "Professor F: I mean , you know , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess I 'm sounding cavalier , but I mean , I think the point is you have , uh , a bunch of labels and {disfmarker} and they 're han hand uh {disfmarker} hand - marked . Uh , I guess , actually , TIMIT was not entirely hand - marked . It was automatically first , and then hand {disfmarker} hand - corrected .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor F: But {disfmarker} but , um , uh , it {disfmarker} it , um , it might be a better source . So , i it 's {disfmarker} you 're right . It would be another interesting scientific question to ask , \" Is it because it 's a broad source or because it was , you know , carefully ? \"\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: uh . And that 's something you could ask , but given limited time , I think the main thing is if it 's a better thing for going across languages on this training tandem system ,\nPhD A: Yeah . Right .\n",
      "Professor F: then it 's probably {disfmarker}\nPhD A: What about the differences in the phone sets ?\nGrad C: Uh , between languages ?\nPhD A: No , between TIMIT and the {disfmarker} the digits .\nGrad C: Oh , um , right . Well , there 's a mapping from the sixty - one phonemes in TIMIT to {disfmarker} to fifty - six , the ICSI fifty - six .\nPhD E: Sixty - one .\nPhD A: Oh , OK . I see .\n",
      "Grad C: And then the digits phonemes , um , there 's about twenty twenty - two or twenty - four of them ? Is that right ?\nPhD A: Out of that fifty - six ?\nPhD G: Yep .\nGrad C: Out of that fifty - six .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nGrad C: Yeah . So , it 's {disfmarker} it 's definitely broader , yeah .\nPhD G: But , actually , the issue of phoneti phon uh phone phoneme mappings will arise when we will do severa use several languages\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD G: because you {disfmarker} Well , some phonemes are not , uh , in every languages , and {disfmarker} So we plan to develop a subset of the phonemes , uh , that includes , uh , all the phonemes of our training languages ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: and use a network with kind of one hundred outputs or something like that .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm . You mean a superset , sort of .\nPhD G: Uh , yeah ,\nProfessor F: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nPhD G: superset ,\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah . I th I looks the SAMPA SAMPA phone .\nPhD G: yeah .\nPhD E: SAMPA phone ? For English {disfmarker} uh American English , and the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the language who have more phone are the English .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "PhD E: Of the {disfmarker} these language . But n for example , in Spain , the Spanish have several phone that d doesn't appear in the E English and we thought to complete . But for that , it needs {disfmarker} we must r h do a lot of work {vocalsound} because we need to generate new tran transcription for the database that we have .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Other than the language , is there a reason not to use the TIMIT phone set ? Cuz it 's larger ? As opposed to the ICSI {pause} phone set ?\n",
      "Grad C: Oh , you mean why map the sixty - one to the fifty - six ?\nPhD B: Yeah .\nGrad C: I don't know . I have {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Um , I forget if that happened starting with you , or was it {disfmarker} o or if it was Eric , afterwards who did that . But I think , basically , there were several of the phones that were just hardly ever there .\nPhD A: Yeah , and I think some of them , they were making distinctions between silence at the end and silence at the beginning , when really they 're {pause} both silence .\nPhD B: Oh .\n",
      "PhD A: I th I think it was things like that that got it mapped down to fifty - six .\nPhD B: OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah , especially in a system like ours , which is a discriminative system . You know , you 're really asking this net to learn .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: It 's {disfmarker} it 's kind of hard .\n",
      "PhD A: There 's not much difference , really . And {pause} the ones that are gone , I think are {disfmarker} I think there was {disfmarker} they also in TIMIT had like a glottal stop , which was basically a short period of silence ,\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: and so .\nPhD B: Well , we have that now , too , right ?\nPhD A: I don't know .\nPhD B: Yeah .\nPhD A: So .\n",
      "Professor F: i It 's actually pretty common that a lot of the recognition systems people use have things like {disfmarker} like , say thirty - nine , phone symbols , right ? Uh , and then they get the variety by {disfmarker} by bringing in the context , the phonetic context . Uh . So we actually have an unusually large number in {disfmarker} in what we tend to use here . Um . So , a a actually {disfmarker} maybe {disfmarker} now you 've got me sort of intrigued . What {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} Can you describe what {disfmarker} what 's on the cube ?\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , w I th I think that 's a good idea\nProfessor F: I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad C: to {disfmarker} to talk about the whole cube\nProfessor F: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: and maybe we could sections in the cube for people to work on .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: Um , OK . Uh , do you wanna do it ?\n",
      "Professor F: OK , so even {disfmarker} even though the meeting recorder doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't , uh {disfmarker} and since you 're not running a video camera we won't get this , but if you use a board it 'll help us anyway .\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor F: Uh , point out one of the limitations of this {vocalsound} medium ,\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor F: but you 've got the wireless on ,\nGrad C: Yeah , I have the wireless .\nProfessor F: right ? Yeah , so you can walk around .\n",
      "Grad C: OK . Can y can you walk around too ? No . OK , well , um ,\nProfessor F: Uh , he can't , actually , but {disfmarker}\nGrad C: s basically , the {disfmarker} the cube will have three dimensions .\nProfessor F: He 's tethered .\nGrad C: The first dimension is the {disfmarker} the features that we 're going to use . And the second dimension , um , is the training corpus . And that 's the training on the discriminant neural net . Um and the last dimension happens to be {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah and again {disfmarker} Yeah . So the {disfmarker} the training for HTK is always {disfmarker} that 's always set up for the individual test , right ? That there 's some training data and some test data . So that 's different than this .\nGrad C: Right , right . This is {disfmarker} this is for {disfmarker} for ANN only . And , yeah , the training for the HTK models is always , uh , fixed for whatever language you 're testing on .\nProfessor F: Right .\n",
      "Grad C: And then , there 's the testing corpus . So , then I think it 's probably instructive to go and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and show you the features that we were talking about . Um , so , let 's see . Help me out with {disfmarker}\nPhD G: PLP .\nGrad C: With what ?\nPhD G: PLP .\nGrad C: PLP ? OK .\nPhD G: MSG .\nGrad C: MSG .\nPhD G: Uh , JRASTA .\nGrad C: JRASTA .\nPhD G: And JRASTA - LDA .\n",
      "Grad C: JRASTA - LDA .\nPhD G: Um , multi - band .\nGrad C: Multi - band .\nPhD G: So there would be multi - band before , um {disfmarker} before our network , I mean .\nGrad C: Yeah , just the multi - band features , right ?\nPhD G: And {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Uh - huh . Ah . Ah .\n",
      "PhD G: So , something like , uh , s TCT within bands and {disfmarker} Well . And then multi - band after networks . Meaning that we would have , uh , neural networks , uh , discriminant neural networks for each band . Uh , yeah . And using the {disfmarker} the outputs of these networks or the linear outputs or something like that . Uh , yeah .\nPhD A: What about mel cepstrum ? Or is that {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Oh , um {disfmarker}\nPhD A: you don't include that because it 's part of the base or something ?\nPhD E: Yeah databases .\n",
      "Professor F: Well , y you do have a baseline system that 's m that 's mel cepstra ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: right ?\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: So .\nPhD G: But , uh , well , not for the {disfmarker} the ANN . I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD G: So , yeah , we could {disfmarker} we could add {pause} MFCC also .\nGrad C: We could add {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Probably should . I mean at least {disfmarker} at least conceptually , you know , it doesn't meant you actually have to do it ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: but conceptually it makes sense as a {disfmarker} as a base line .\nPhD A: It 'd be an interesting test just to have {disfmarker} just to do MFCC with the neural net\nPhD E: Without the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: and everything else the same .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: Compare that with just M - MFCC without the {disfmarker} the net .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: I think {disfmarker} I think Dan did some of that .\nPhD A: Oh .\nGrad C: Um , in his previous Aurora experiments . And with the net it 's {disfmarker} it 's wonderful . Without the net it 's just baseline .\nProfessor F: Um , I think OGI folks have been doing that , too . D Because I think that for a bunch of their experiments they used , uh , mel cepstra , actually .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor F: Um , of course that 's there and this is here and so on . OK ?\nGrad C: OK . Um , for the training corpus {disfmarker} corpus , um , we have , um , the {disfmarker} the d {pause} digits {nonvocalsound} from the various languages . Um , English Spanish um , French What else do we have ?\nPhD G: And the {pause} Finnish .\nGrad C: Finnish .\nPhD A: Where did th where did that come from ?\nPhD E: And Italian .\nPhD A: Digits ?\n",
      "PhD E: Uh , no , Italian no . Italian no .\nPhD A: Oh .\nGrad C: Oh . Italian .\nPhD E: I Italian yes . Italian ?\nProfessor F: Italian .\nPhD A: Is that {disfmarker} Was that distributed with Aurora , or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: One L or two L 's ?\nPhD A: Where did that {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor F: The newer one .\nPhD G: So English , uh , Finnish and Italian are Aurora .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: And Spanish and French is something that we can use in addition to Aurora . Uh , well .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , so Carmen brought the Spanish , and Stephane brought the French .\nGrad C: OK . And , um , oh yeah , and {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Is it French French or Belgian French ? There 's a {disfmarker}\nPhD G: It 's , uh , French French .\nGrad C: French French .\nPhD E: Like Mexican Spain and Spain .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD B: Or Swiss .\nPhD E: I think that is more important ,\nPhD B: Swiss - German .\nPhD E: Mexican Spain . Because more people {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . Yeah , probably so .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah , Herve always insists that Belgian is {disfmarker} i is absolutely pure French , has nothing to do with {disfmarker} but he says those {disfmarker} those {disfmarker} those Parisians talk funny .\nPhD G: Yeah , yeah , yeah . They have an accent .\nProfessor F: Yeah they {disfmarker} they do , yeah . Yeah . {pause} But then he likes Belgian fries too , so . OK .\n",
      "Grad C: And then we have , uh , um , broader {disfmarker} broader corpus , um , like TIMIT . TIMIT so far ,\nPhD E: And Spanish too .\nGrad C: right ? Spanish {disfmarker} Oh , Spanish stories ?\nPhD E: Albayzin is the name .\nPhD A: What about TI - digits ?\nGrad C: Um , TI - digits {disfmarker} uh all these Aurora f d data p data is from {disfmarker} is derived from TI - digits .\nPhD A: Uh - huh . Oh . Oh OK .\n",
      "Grad C: Um , basically , they {disfmarker} they corrupted it with , uh , different kinds of noises at different SNR levels .\nPhD A: Ah . I see .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: y And I think Stephane was saying there 's {disfmarker} there 's some broader s material in the French also ?\nPhD G: Yeah , we cou we could use {disfmarker}\nGrad C: OK .\nPhD G: Yeah . The French data .\nPhD E: Spanish stories ?\nGrad C: No .\nPhD E: No .\nGrad C: Sp - Not Spanish stories ?\n",
      "PhD E: No . No . Albayz\nProfessor F: Spanish {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Spanish something .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad C: OK .\nPhD B: Did the Aurora people actually corrupt it themselves , or just specify the signal and the signal - t\nGrad C: They {disfmarker} they corrupted it , um , themselves ,\nPhD B: OK .\nGrad C: but they also included the {disfmarker} the noise files for us , right ? Or {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad C: so we can go ahead and corrupt other things .\n",
      "Professor F: I 'm just curious , Carmen {disfmarker} I mean , I couldn't tell if you were joking or {disfmarker} i Is it {disfmarker} is it Mexican Spanish ,\nPhD E: No no no no .\nProfessor F: or is it {disfmarker}\nPhD E: No no no no .\nProfessor F: Oh , no , no . It 's {disfmarker} it 's Spanish from Spain , Spanish .\nPhD E: Spanish from Spain .\nProfessor F: Yeah , OK .\nGrad C: From Spain .\n",
      "Professor F: Alright . Spanish from Spain . Yeah , we 're really covered there now . OK .\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor F: And the French from France .\nPhD G: Yeah , the {disfmarker} No , the French is f yeah , from , uh , Paris ,\nGrad C: Oh , from Paris , OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad C: And TIMIT 's from {pause} lots of different places .\nPhD G: OK .\nProfessor F: From TI . From {disfmarker} i It 's from Texas . So may maybe it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD B: From the deep South .\n",
      "Professor F: So - s so it 's not really from the US either .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Is that {disfmarker} ? OK .\nGrad C: Yeah . OK . And , um , with within the training corporas um , we 're , uh , thinking about , um , training with noise . So , incorporating the same kinds of noises that , um , Aurora is in incorporating in their , um {disfmarker} in their training corpus . Um , I don't think we we 're given the , uh {disfmarker} the unseen noise conditions , though , right ?\n",
      "Professor F: I think what they were saying was that , um , for this next test there 's gonna be some of the cases where they have the same type of noise as you were given before hand and some cases where you 're not .\nGrad C: Like {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . OK .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: So , presumably , that 'll be part of the topic of analysis of the {disfmarker} the test results , is how well you do when it 's matching noise and how well you do where it 's not .\nGrad C: Right .\nProfessor F: I think that 's right .\n",
      "Grad C: So , I guess we can't train on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the unseen noise conditions .\nProfessor F: Well , not if it 's not seen ,\nGrad C: Right . If {disfmarker} Not if it 's unseen .\nProfessor F: yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: OK . I mean , i i i i it does seem to me that a lot of times when you train with something that 's at least a little bit noisy it can {disfmarker} it can help you out in other kinds of noise even if it 's not matching just because there 's some more variance that you 've built into things . But , but , uh ,\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: uh , exactly how well it will work will depend on how near it is to what you had ahead of time . So . OK , so that 's your training corpus ,\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: and then your testing corpus {disfmarker} ?\nGrad C: Um , the testing corporas are , um , just , um , the same ones as Aurora testing . And , that includes , um , the English Spa - um , Italian . Finnish .\nPhD E: Finnish .\nGrad C: Uh , we ' r we 're gonna get German , right ? Ge - {comment} At the final test will have German .\nProfessor F: Well , so , yeah , the final test , on a guess , is supposed to be German and Danish ,\nPhD G: Uh , yeah .\nProfessor F: right ?\nGrad C: Right .\n",
      "PhD G: The s yeah , the Spanish , perhaps ,\nGrad C: Spanish . Oh yeah , we can {disfmarker} we can test on s Spanish .\nPhD G: we will have . Yeah . But the {disfmarker} the Aurora Spanish , I mean .\nGrad C: Oh yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Oh , there 's a {disfmarker} there 's Spanish testing in the Aurora ?\nPhD G: Uh , not yet , but , uh , yeah , uh , e\nPhD E: Yeah , it 's preparing .\nPhD G: pre they are preparing it ,\n",
      "PhD E: They are preparing .\nPhD G: and , well , according to Hynek it will be {disfmarker} we will have this at the end of November , or {disfmarker} Um .\nProfessor F: OK , so , uh , something like seven things in each , uh {disfmarker} each column .\nPhD G: Yeah {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: So that 's , uh , three hundred and forty - three , uh , {vocalsound} different systems that are going to be developed . There 's three of you .\nGrad C: Yeah . One hundred each , about .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh , so that 's hundred and {disfmarker} {vocalsound} hundred and fourteen each .\nGrad D: What a what about noise conditions ?\nProfessor F: What ?\nGrad D: w Don't we need to put in the column for noise conditions ?\nProfessor F: Are you just trying to be difficult ?\nGrad D: No , I just don't understand .\nGrad C: Well , th uh , when {disfmarker} when I put these testings on there , I 'm assumi\nProfessor F: I 'm just kidding . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: There - there 's three {disfmarker} three tests . Um , type - A , type - B , and type - C . And they 're all {disfmarker} they 're all gonna be test tested , um , with one training of the HTK system . Um , there 's a script that tests all three different types of noise conditions . Test - A is like a matched noise . Test - B is a {disfmarker} is a slightly mismatched . And test - C is a , um , mismatched channel .\nGrad D: And do we do all our {pause} training on clean data ?\n",
      "Grad C: Um , no , no ,\nPhD E: Also , we can clean that .\nGrad C: we 're {disfmarker} we 're gonna be , um , training on the noise files that we do have .\nPhD G: No .\n",
      "Professor F: So , um {disfmarker} Yeah , so I guess the question is how long does it take to do a {disfmarker} a training ? I mean , it 's not totally crazy t I mean , these are {disfmarker} a lot of these are built - in things and we know {disfmarker} we have programs that compute PLP , we have MSG , we have JRA you know , a lot of these things will just kind of happen , won't take uh a huge amount of development , it 's just trying it out . So , we actually can do quite a few experiments .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: But how {disfmarker} how long does it take , do we think , for one of these {pause} {comment} trainings ?\nGrad C: That 's a good question .\nPhD A: What about combinations of things ?\nProfessor F: Oh yeah , that 's right . I mean , cuz , so , for instance , I think the major advantage of MSG {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Oh !\nProfessor F: Yeah ,\nGrad C: Och !\nProfessor F: good point . A major advantage of MSG , I see , th that we 've seen in the past is combined with PLP .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: Um .\nGrad C: Now , this is turning into a four - dimensional cube ?\nPhD A: Well , you just select multiple things on the one dimension .\nPhD B: Or you just add it to the features .\nPhD E: No .\nGrad C: Just {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Here .\nGrad C: Oh , yeah . OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah , so , I mean , you don't wanna , uh {disfmarker} Let 's see , seven choose two would {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {disfmarker} be , uh , twenty - one different combinations . Um .\n",
      "PhD B: It 's not a complete set of combinations , though ,\nProfessor F: Probably {disfmarker}\nPhD B: right ? It 's not a complete set of combinations , though ,\nProfessor F: What ?\nPhD B: right ?\nGrad C: No .\nProfessor F: Yeah , I hope not . Yeah , there 's {disfmarker}\nGrad C: That would be {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Uh , yeah , so PLP and MSG I think we definitely wanna try cuz we 've had a lot of good experience with putting those together .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Um . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: When you do that , you 're increasing the size of the inputs to the net . Do you have to reduce the hidden layer , or something ?\nProfessor F: Well , so {disfmarker} I mean , so i it doesn't increase the number of trainings .\nPhD A: No , no , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm just wondering about number of parameters in the net . Do you have to worry about keeping that the same , or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor F: Uh , I don't think so .\nPhD B: There 's a computation limit , though , isn't there ?\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , I mean , it 's just more compu Excuse me ?\nPhD B: Isn't there like a limit {pause} on the computation load , or d latency , or something like that for Aurora task ?\nProfessor F: Oh yeah , we haven't talked about any of that at all , have we ?\nGrad C: No .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , so , there 's not really a limit . What it is is that there 's {disfmarker} there 's , uh {disfmarker} it 's just penalty , you know ? That {disfmarker} that if you 're using , uh , a megabyte , then they 'll say that 's very nice , but , of course , it will never go on a cheap cell phone .\nPhD B: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: Um . And , u uh , I think the computation isn't so much of a problem . I think it 's more the memory . Uh , and , expensive cell phones , exa expensive hand - helds , and so forth , are gonna have lots of memory . So it 's just that , uh , these people see the {disfmarker} the cheap cell phones as being still the biggest market , so .\nPhD B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Um . But , yeah , I was just realizing that , actually , it doesn't explode out , um {disfmarker} It 's not really two to the seventh . But it 's {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} i i it doesn't really explode out the number of trainings cuz these were all trained individually . Right ? So , uh , if you have all of these nets trained some place , then , uh , you can combine their outputs and do the KL transformation and so forth\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: and {disfmarker} and , uh {disfmarker} So , what it {disfmarker} it blows out is the number of uh testings . And , you know {disfmarker} and the number of times you do that last part . But that last part , I think , is so {disfmarker} has gotta be pretty quick , so . Uh . Right ? I mean , it 's just running the data through {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Oh .\nPhD A: But wh what about a net that 's trained on multiple languages , though ?\nProfessor F: Well , you gotta do the KL transformation ,\n",
      "PhD G: Eight {disfmarker} y\nProfessor F: but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Is that just separate nets for each language then combined , or is that actually one net trained on ?\nPhD E: Necessary to put in .\nProfessor F: Good question .\nPhD G: Uh , probably one net . Well . Uh .\nProfessor F: One would think one net ,\nPhD G: So .\nProfessor F: but we 've {disfmarker} I don't think we 've tested that . Right ?\n",
      "PhD G: So , in the broader training corpus we can {disfmarker} we can use , uh , the three , or , a combination of {disfmarker} of two {disfmarker} two languages .\nPhD E: Database three .\nPhD A: In one net . Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , so , I guess the first thing is if w if we know how much a {disfmarker} how long a {disfmarker} a training takes , if we can train up all these {disfmarker} these combinations , uh , then we can start working on testing of them individually , and in combination . Right ?\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Because the putting them in combination , I think , is not as much computationally as the r training of the nets in the first place . Right ?\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So y you do have to compute the KL transformation . Uh , which is a little bit , but it 's not too much .\nPhD G: It 's not too much ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: no .\nProfessor F: So it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD G: But {disfmarker} Yeah . But there is the testing also , which implies training , uh , the HTK models\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} the model {disfmarker} the HTK model .\nPhD G: and , well ,\nProfessor F: Uh , right .\n",
      "PhD G: it 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Right . So if you do have lots of combinations , it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD G: yeah . But it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's not so long . It @ @ {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor F: How long does it take for an , uh , HTK training ?\nPhD G: It 's around six hours , I think .\nPhD E: It depends on the {disfmarker}\nPhD G: For training and testing , yeah .\nPhD E: More than six hours .\n",
      "PhD G: More .\nPhD E: For the Italian , yes . Maybe one day .\nPhD G: One day ?\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: For HTK ?\nPhD E: Well .\nProfessor F: Really ? Running on what ?\nPhD E: Uh , M {disfmarker} MFCC .\nProfessor F: No , I 'm sorry , ru running on what machine ?\nPhD E: Uh , Ravioli .\nProfessor F: Uh , I don't know what Ravioli is . Is it {disfmarker} is it an Ultra - five , or is it a {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD E: mmm Um . Who is that ?\nPhD A: I don't know .\nGrad C: I don't know .\nPhD E: I don't know .\nPhD B: I don't know what a Ravioli is .\nPhD E: I don't know .\nGrad C: I don't know .\nPhD B: We can check really quickly , I guess .\nPhD G: Yeah , I I think it 's - it 's - it 's not so long because , well , the TI - digits test data is about , uh how many hours ? Uh , th uh , thirty hours of speech , I think ,\n",
      "Professor F: It 's a few hours .\nPhD B: Hmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah . {vocalsound} Right ,\nPhD G: something like that . And it p Well .\nProfessor F: so , I mean , clearly , there {disfmarker} there 's no way we can even begin to do an any significant amount here unless we use multiple machines .\nPhD G: It 's six hours .\n",
      "Professor F: Right ? So {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} w we {disfmarker} I mean there 's plenty of machines here and they 're n they 're often not in {disfmarker} in a great {disfmarker} great deal of use . So , I mean , I think it 's {disfmarker} it 's key that {disfmarker} that the {disfmarker} that you look at , uh , you know , what machines are fast , what machines are used a lot {disfmarker} Uh , are we still using P - make ? Is that {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Grad C: Oh , I don't know how w how we would P - make this , though . Um .\nProfessor F: Well , you have a {disfmarker} I mean , once you get the basic thing set up , you have just all the {disfmarker} uh , a all these combinations ,\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: right ?\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Um . It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} let 's say it 's six hours or eight hours , or something for the training of HTK . How long is it for training of {disfmarker} of , uh , the neural net ?\nGrad C: The neural net ? Um .\nPhD G: I would say two days .\nPhD A: Depends on the corpuses , right ?\nPhD E: It depends .\nPhD B: It s also depends on the net .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nPhD E: Depends on the corpus .\n",
      "PhD B: How big is the net ?\nPhD E: For Albayzin I trained on neural network , uh , was , um , one day also .\nProfessor F: Uh , but on what machine ?\nGrad C: On a SPERT board .\nPhD E: Uh . I {disfmarker} I think the neural net SPERT .\nGrad C: Y you did a {disfmarker} you did it on a SPERT board .\nPhD E: Yes .\nProfessor F: OK , again , we do have a bunch of SPERT boards .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: And I think there {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} I think you folks are probably go the ones using them right now .\nPhD A: Is it faster to do it on the SPERT , or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor F: Uh , don't know .\nGrad C: It 's {disfmarker} it 's still a little faster on the\nProfessor F: Used to be .\nPhD A: Is it ?\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , yeah . Ad - Adam {disfmarker} Adam did some testing . Or either Adam or {disfmarker} or Dan did some testing and they found that the SPERT board 's still {disfmarker} still faster .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: And the benefits is that , you know , you run out of SPERT and then you can do other things on your {disfmarker} your computer ,\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nGrad C: and you don't {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . So you could be {disfmarker} we have quite a few SPERT boards . You could set up , uh , you know , ten different jobs , or something , to run on SPERT {disfmarker} different SPERT boards and {disfmarker} and have ten other jobs running on different computers . So , it 's got to take that sort of thing , or {disfmarker} or we 're not going to get through any significant number of these .\nGrad C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F:  So this is {disfmarker} Yeah , I mean , I kind of like this because what it {disfmarker} No {disfmarker}\nGrad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: uh , no , what I like about it is we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we do have a problem that we have very limited time . You know , so , with very limited time , we actually have really quite a {disfmarker} quite a bit of computational resource available if you , you know , get a look across the institute and how little things are being used . And uh , on the other hand , almost anything that really i you know , is {disfmarker} is new , where we 're saying , \" Well , let 's look at , like we were talking before about , uh , uh , voiced - unvoiced - silence detection features and all those sort {disfmarker} \" that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: I think it 's a great thing to go to . But if it 's new , then we have this development and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and learning process t to {disfmarker} to go through on top of {disfmarker} just the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} all the {disfmarker} all the work . So , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't see how we 'd do it . So what I like about this is you basically have listed all the things that we already know how to do .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: And {disfmarker} and all the kinds of data that we , at this point , already have . And , uh , you 're just saying let 's look at the outer product of all of these things and see if we can calculate them . a a Am I {disfmarker} am I interpreting this correctly ? Is this sort of what {disfmarker} what you 're thinking of doing in the short term ?\nPhD G: Mmm .\nProfessor F: OK .\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So {disfmarker} so then I think it 's just the {disfmarker} the missing piece is that you need to , uh , you know {disfmarker} you know , talk to {disfmarker} talk to , uh , Chuck , talk to , uh , Adam , uh , sort out about , uh , what 's the best way to really , you know , attack this as a {disfmarker} as a {disfmarker} as a mass problem in terms of using many machines . Uh , and uh , then , you know , set it up in terms of scripts and so forth , and {disfmarker} uh , in {disfmarker} in kind o some kind of structured way . Uh . Um , and , you know , when we go to , uh , OGI next week , uh , we can then present to them , you know , what it is that we 're doing . And , uh , we can pull things out of this list that we think they are doing sufficiently ,\n",
      "Grad C: Mmm . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: that , you know , we 're not {disfmarker} we won't be contributing that much . Um . And , uh {disfmarker} Then , uh , like , we 're there .\nPhD B: How big are the nets you 're using ?\n",
      "Grad C: Um , for the {disfmarker} for nets trained on digits , {comment} um , we have been using , uh , four hundred order hidden units . And , um , for the broader class nets we 're {disfmarker} we 're going to increase that because the , um , the digits nets only correspond to about twenty phonemes .\nPhD B: Uh - huh .\nGrad C: So .\nProfessor F: Broader class ?\nGrad C: Um , the broader {disfmarker} broader training corpus nets like TIMIT . Um , w we 're gonna {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Oh , it 's not actually broader class , it 's actually finer class , but you mean {disfmarker} y You mean {vocalsound} more classes .\nGrad C: Right . Right . Yeah . More classes . Right , right . More classes .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad C: That 's what I mean .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm . And . Yeah .\nProfessor F: Carmen , did you {disfmarker} do you have something else to add ? We {disfmarker} you haven't talked too much , and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: D I begin to work with the Italian database to {disfmarker} nnn , to {disfmarker} with the f front - end and with the HTK program and the @ @ . And I trained eh , with the Spanish two neural network with PLP and with LogRASTA PLP . I don't know exactly what is better if {disfmarker} if LogRASTA or JRASTA .\n",
      "Professor F: Well , um , JRASTA has the potential to do better , but it doesn't always . It 's {disfmarker} i i JRASTA is more complicated . It 's {disfmarker} it 's , uh {disfmarker} instead of doing RASTA with a log , you 're doing RASTA with a log - like function that varies depending on a J parameter , uh , which is supposed to be sensitive to the amount of noise there is . So , it 's sort of like the right transformation to do the filtering in , is dependent on how much noise there is .\nPhD E: Hm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: And so in JRASTA you attempt to do that . It 's a little complicated because once you do that , you end up in some funny domain and you end up having to do a transformation afterwards , which requires some tables . And , uh ,\nPhD E: Hm - hmm .\nProfessor F: so it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's a little messier , uh , there 's more ways that it can go wrong , uh , but if {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if you 're careful with it , it can do better .\n",
      "PhD E: It 's a bit {disfmarker} I 'll do better .\nProfessor F: So , it 's {disfmarker} So .\nPhD E: Um , and I think to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to recognize the Italian digits with the neural netw Spanish neural network , and also to train another neural network with the Spanish digits , the database of Spanish digits . And I working that .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: But prepa to prepare the {disfmarker} the database are difficult . Was for me , n it was a difficult work last week with the labels because the {disfmarker} the program with the label obtained that I have , the Albayzin , is different w to the label to train the neural network . And {pause} {vocalsound} that is another work that we must to do , to {disfmarker} to change .\nProfessor F: I {disfmarker} I didn't understand .\n",
      "PhD E: Uh , for example Albayzin database was labeled automatically with HTK . It 's not hand {disfmarker} it 's not labels by hand .\nProfessor F: Oh , \" l labeled \" .\nPhD E: Labels .\nProfessor F: I 'm sorry ,\nPhD E: I 'm sorry ,\nProfessor F: I have a p I had a problem with {vocalsound} the pronunciation .\nPhD E: I 'm sorry . The labels . I 'm sorry . The labels .\nProfessor F: Yeah , OK .\nPhD E: Oh , also that {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: So , OK , so let 's start over .\nPhD E: Yes .\nProfessor F: So , TI TIMI TIMIT 's hand - labeled , and {disfmarker} and you 're saying about the Spanish ?\nPhD E: The Spanish labels ? That was in different format , that the format for the em {disfmarker} the program to train the neural network .\nProfessor F: Oh , I see .\nPhD E: I necessary to convert . And someti well {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So you 're just having a problem converting the labels .\n",
      "PhD E: It 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah , but n yes , because they have one program , Feacalc , but no , l LabeCut , l LabeCut , but don't {disfmarker} doesn't , eh , include the HTK format to convert .\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD B: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: And , I don't know what . I ask {disfmarker} e even I ask to Dan Ellis what I can do that , and h they {disfmarker} he say me that h he does doesn't any {disfmarker} any s any form to {disfmarker} to do that . And at the end , I think that with LabeCut I can transfer to ASCII format , and HTK is an ASCII format . And I m do another , uh , one program to put ASCII format of HTK to ase ay ac ASCII format to Exceed\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD E: and they used LabCut to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to pass .\nProfessor F: OK , yeah .\nPhD E: Actually that was complicated ,\nProfessor F: So you\nPhD E: but well , I know how we can did that {disfmarker} do that .\nProfessor F: Sure . So it 's just usual kind of uh {disfmarker} sometimes say housekeeping , right ? To get these {disfmarker} get these things sorted out .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So it seems like there 's {disfmarker} there 's some peculiarities of the , uh {disfmarker} of each of these dimensions that are getting sorted out . And then , um , if {disfmarker} if you work on getting the , uh , assembly lines together , and then the {disfmarker} the pieces sort of get ready to go into the assembly line and gradually can start , you know , start turning the crank , more or less . And , uh , uh , we have a lot more computational capability here than they do at OGI , so I think that i if {disfmarker} What 's {disfmarker} what 's great about this is it sets it up in a very systematic way , so that , uh , once these {disfmarker} all of these , you know , mundane but real problems get sorted out , we can just start turning the crank\n",
      "PhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: and {disfmarker} and push all of us through , and then finally figure out what 's best .\nGrad C: Yeah . Um , I {disfmarker} I was thinking two things . Uh , the first thing was , um {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we actually had thought of this as sort of like , um {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not in stages , {comment} but more along the {disfmarker} the time axis . Just kind of like one stream at a time ,\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad C: je - je - je - je - je {comment} check out the results and {disfmarker} and go that way .\nProfessor F: Oh , yeah , yeah , sure . No , I 'm just saying , I 'm just thinking of it like loops ,\nGrad C: Uh - huh .\nProfessor F: right ? And so , y y y if you had three nested loops , that you have a choice for this , a choice for this , and a choice for that ,\nGrad C: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: right ? And you 're going through them all . That {disfmarker} that 's what I meant .\n",
      "Grad C: Right , right .\nProfessor F: And , uh , the thing is that once you get a better handle on how much you can realistically do , uh , um , {vocalsound} concurrently on different machines , different SPERTs , and so forth , uh , and you see how long it takes on what machine and so forth , you can stand back from it and say , \" OK , if we look at all these combinations we 're talking about , and combinations of combinations , and so forth , \" you 'll probably find you can't do it all .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm . OK .\n",
      "Professor F: OK , so then at that point , uh , we should sort out which ones do we throw away .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Which of the combinations across {disfmarker} you know , what are the most likely ones , and {disfmarker} And , uh , I still think we could do a lot of them . I mean , it wouldn't surprise me if we could do a hundred of them or something . But , probably when you include all the combinations , you 're actually talking about a thousand of them or something , and that 's probably more than we can do . Uh , but a hundred is a lot . And {disfmarker} and , uh , um {disfmarker}\nGrad C: OK .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: Yeah , and the {disfmarker} the second thing was about scratch space . And I think you sent an email about , um , e scratch space for {disfmarker} for people to work on . And I know that , uh , Stephane 's working from an NT machine , so his {disfmarker} his home directory exists somewhere else .\n",
      "Professor F: His {disfmarker} his stuff is somewhere else , yeah . Yeah , I mean , my point I {disfmarker} I want to {disfmarker} Yeah , thanks for bring it back to that . My {disfmarker} th I want to clarify my point about that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that Chuck repeated in his note . Um . We 're {disfmarker} over the next year or two , we 're gonna be upgrading the networks in this place ,\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: but right now they 're still all te pretty much all ten megabit lines . And we have reached the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} the machines are getting faster and faster . So , it actually has reached the point where it 's a significant drag on the time for something to move the data from one place to another .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: So , you {disfmarker} you don't w especially in something with repetitive computation where you 're going over it multiple times , you do {disfmarker} don't want to have the {disfmarker} the data that you 're working on distant from where it 's being {disfmarker} where the computation 's being done if you can help it .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Uh . Now , we are getting more disk for the central file server , which , since it 's not a computational server , would seem to be a contradiction to what I just said . But the idea is that , uh , suppose you 're working with , uh , this big bunch of multi multilingual databases . Um , you put them all in the central ser at the cen central file server .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: Then , when you 're working with something and accessing it many times , you copy the piece of it that you 're working with over to some place that 's close to where the computation is and then do all the work there . And then that way you {disfmarker} you won't have the {disfmarker} the network {disfmarker} you won't be clogging the network for yourself and others .\nGrad C: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor F: That 's the idea . So , uh , it 's gonna take us {disfmarker} It may be too late for this , uh , p precise crunch we 're in now , but , uh , we 're , uh {disfmarker} It 's gonna take us a couple weeks at least to get the , uh , uh , the amount of disk we 're gonna be getting . We 're actually gonna get , uh , I think four more , uh , thirty - six gigabyte drives and , uh , put them on another {disfmarker} another disk rack . We ran out of space on the disk rack that we had , so we 're getting another disk rack and {vocalsound} four more drives to share between , uh {disfmarker} primarily between this project and the Meetings {disfmarker} Meetings Project . Um . But , uh , we 've put another {disfmarker} I guess there 's another eighteen gigabytes that 's {disfmarker} that 's in there now to help us with the immediate crunch . But , uh , are you saying {disfmarker} So I don't know where {pause} you 're {disfmarker} Stephane , where you 're doing your computations . If {disfmarker} i so , you 're on an NT machine , so you 're using some external machine\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , it , uh {disfmarker} Well , to {disfmarker} It 's Nutmeg and Mustard , I think , \nProfessor F: Do you know these yet ?\nPhD G: I don't know what kind .\nPhD A: Nuh - uh .\nProfessor F: Yeah , OK . Uh , are these {disfmarker} are these , uh , computational servers , or something ? I 'm {disfmarker} I 've been kind of out of it .\nPhD G: Yeah , I think , yeah . I think so .\n",
      "Professor F: Unfortunately , these days my idea of running comput of computa doing computation is running a spread sheet .\nPhD G: Mmm .\nProfessor F: So .\nPhD G: Mmm .\nProfessor F: Uh , haven't been {disfmarker} haven't been doing much computing personally , so . Um . Yeah , so those are computational servers . So I guess the other question is what disk there i space there is there on the computational servers .\nPhD A: Right . Yeah , I 'm not sure what 's available on {disfmarker} is it {disfmarker} you said Nutmeg and what was the other one ?\n",
      "PhD G: Mustard .\nPhD A: Mustard . OK .\nPhD B: Huh .\nProfessor F: Yeah , Well , you 're the {disfmarker} you 're the disk czar now .\nPhD A: Right , right .\nProfessor F: So\nPhD A: Well , I 'll check on that .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah . Yeah , so basically , uh , Chuck will be the one who will be sorting out what disk needs to be where , and so on , and I 'll be the one who says , \" OK , spend the money . \" So . {vocalsound} Which , I mean , n these days , uh , if you 're talking about scratch space , it doesn't increase the , uh , need for backup , and , uh , I think it 's not that big a d and the {disfmarker} the disks themselves are not that expensive . Right now it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: What you can do , when you 're on that machine , is , uh , just go to the slash - scratch directory , and do a DF minus K , and it 'll tell you if there 's space available .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh , and if there is then , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: But wasn't it , uh {disfmarker} I think Dave was saying that he preferred that people didn't put stuff in slash - scratch . It 's more putting in d s XA or XB or ,\n",
      "PhD A: Well , there 's different {disfmarker} there , um , there 's {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: right ?\n",
      "PhD A: Right . So there 's the slash - X - whatever disks , and then there 's slash - scratch . And both of those two kinds are not backed up . And if it 's called \" slash - scratch \" , it means it 's probably an internal disk to the machine . Um . And so that 's the kind of thing where , like if {disfmarker} um , OK , if you don't have an NT , but you have a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a Unix workstation , and they attach an external disk , {comment} it 'll be called \" slash - X - something \" uh , if it 's not backed up and it 'll be \" slash - D - something \" if it is backed up . And if it 's inside the machine on the desk , it 's called \" slash - scratch \" . But the problem is , if you ever get a new machine , they take your machine away . It 's easy to unhook the external disks , put them back on the new machine , but then your slash - scratch is gone . So , you don't wanna put anything in slash - scratch that you wanna keep around for a long period of time . But if it 's a copy of , say , some data that 's on a server , you can put it on slash - scratch because , um , first of all it 's not backed up , and second it doesn't matter if that machine disappears and you get a new machine because you just recopy it to slash - scratch . So tha that 's why I was saying you could check slash - scratch on those {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on , um , Mustard and {disfmarker} and Nutmeg to see if {disfmarker} if there 's space that you could use there .\n",
      "Professor F: I see .\nPhD A: You could also use slash - X - whatever disks on Mustard and Nutmeg .\nPhD G: Yeah , yeah .\nPhD A: Um . Yeah , and we do have {disfmarker} I mean , yeah , so {disfmarker} so you {disfmarker} yeah , it 's better to have things local if you 're gonna run over them lots of times so you don't have to go to the network .\n",
      "Professor F: Right , so es so especially if you 're {disfmarker} right , if you 're {disfmarker} if you 're taking some piece of the training corpus , which usually resides in where Chuck is putting it all on the {disfmarker} on the , uh , file server , uh , then , yeah , it 's fine if it 's not backed up because if it g g gets wiped out or something , y I mean it is backed up on the other disk . So ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: yeah , OK .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah , so , {vocalsound} one of the things that I need to {disfmarker} I 've started looking at {disfmarker} Uh , is this the appropriate time to talk about the disk space stuff ?\nProfessor F: Sure .\n",
      "PhD A: I 've started looking at , um , disk space . Dan {disfmarker} David , um , put a new , um , drive onto Abbott , that 's an X disk , which means it 's not backed up . So , um , I 've been going through and copying data that is , you know , some kind of corpus stuff usually , that {disfmarker} that we 've got on a CD - ROM or something , onto that new disk to free up space {pause} on other disks . And , um , so far , um , I 've copied a couple of Carmen 's , um , databases over there . We haven't deleted them off of the slash - DC disk that they 're on right now in Abbott , um , uh , but we {disfmarker} I would like to go through {disfmarker} sit down with you about some of these other ones and see if we can move them onto , um , this new disk also . There 's {disfmarker} there 's a lot more space there ,\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , OK .\n",
      "PhD A: and it 'll free up more space for doing the experiments and things . So , anything that {disfmarker} that you don't need backed up , we can put on this new disk . Um , but if it 's experiments and you 're creating files and things that you 're gonna need , you probably wanna have those on a disk that 's backed up , just in case something {comment} goes wrong . So . Um So far I 've {disfmarker} I 've copied a couple of things , but I haven't deleted anything off of the old disk to make room yet . Um , and I haven't looked at the {disfmarker} any of the Aurora stuff , except for the Spanish . So I {disfmarker} I guess I 'll need to get together with you and see what data we can move onto the new disk .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , OK .\nProfessor F: Um , yeah , I {disfmarker} I just {disfmarker} an another question occurred to me is {disfmarker} is what were you folks planning to do about normalization ?\nPhD G: Um . Well , we were thinking about using this systematically for all the experiments . Um .\nProfessor F: This being {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD G: So , but {disfmarker} Uh . So that this could be another dimension , but we think perhaps we can use the {disfmarker} the best , uh , um , uh , normalization scheme as OGI is using , so , with parameters that they use there , \nProfessor F: Yeah , I think that 's a good idea .\nPhD G: u {vocalsound} u\nProfessor F: I mean it 's i i we {disfmarker} we seem to have enough dimensions as it is . So probably if we {vocalsound} sort of take their {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor F: probably the on - line {disfmarker} line normalization because then it {disfmarker} {comment} it 's {disfmarker} if we do anything else , we 're gonna end up having to do on - line normalization too , so we may as well just do on - line normalization .\nPhD G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor F: So . Um . So that it 's plausible for the final thing . Good . Um . So , I guess , yeah , th the other topic {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} maybe we 're already there , or almost there , is goals for the {disfmarker} for next week 's meeting . Uh . i i i it seems to me that we wanna do is flush out what you put on the board here . Uh . You know , maybe , have it be somewhat visual , a little bit .\nGrad C: OK . Like a s like a slide ?\nProfessor F: Uh , so w we can say what we 're doing ,\n",
      "Grad C: OK .\n",
      "Professor F: yeah . And , um , also , if you have {pause} sorted out , um , this information about how long i roughly how long it takes to do on what and , you know , what we can {disfmarker} how many of these trainings , uh , uh , and testings and so forth that we can realistically do , uh , then one of the big goals of going there next week would be to {disfmarker} to actually settle on which of them we 're gonna do . And , uh , when we come back we can charge in and do it . Um . Anything else that {disfmarker} I a a Actually {disfmarker} started out this {disfmarker} this field trip started off with {disfmarker} with , uh , Stephane talking to Hynek , so you may have {disfmarker} you may have had other goals , uh , for going up , and any anything else you can think of would be {disfmarker} we should think about {pause} accomplishing ? I mean , I 'm just saying this because {pause} maybe there 's things we need to do in preparation .\n",
      "PhD G: Oh , I think basically , this is {disfmarker} this is , uh , yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: OK . OK . Uh . Alright . And uh {disfmarker} and the other {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the last topic I had here was , um , uh d Dave 's fine offer to {disfmarker} to , uh , do something {pause} {vocalsound} on this . I mean he 's doing {disfmarker} {vocalsound} {disfmarker} he 's working on other things , but to {disfmarker} to do something on this project . So the question is , \" Where {disfmarker} where could we , uh , uh , most use Dave 's help ? \"\n",
      "PhD G: Um , yeah , I was thinking perhaps if , um , additionally to all these experiments , which is not really research , well I mean it 's , uh , running programs\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: and , um , {vocalsound} trying to have a closer look at the {disfmarker} perhaps the , um , {vocalsound} speech , uh , noise detection or , uh , voiced - sound - unvoiced - sound detection and {disfmarker} Which could be important in {disfmarker} i for noise {disfmarker} noise {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: I think that would be a {disfmarker} I think that 's a big {disfmarker} big deal . Because the {disfmarker} you know , the thing that Sunil was talking about , uh , with the labels , uh , labeling the database when it got to the noisy stuff ? The {disfmarker} That {disfmarker} that really throws things off . You know , having the noise all of a sudden , your {disfmarker} your , um , speech detector , I mean the {disfmarker} the , um {disfmarker} What was it ? What was happening with his thing ?\n",
      "Professor F: \nPhD A: He was running through these models very quickly . He was getting lots of , uh , uh insertions , is what it was , in his recognitions .\n",
      "Professor F: The only problem {disfmarker} I mean , maybe that 's the right thing {disfmarker} the only problem I have with it is exactly the same reason why you thought it 'd be a good thing to do . Um , I {disfmarker} I think that {disfmarker} Let 's fall back to that . But I think the first responsibility is sort of to figure out if there 's something {pause} that , uh , an {disfmarker} an additional {disfmarker} Uh , that 's a good thing you {disfmarker} remove the mike . Go ahead , good . Uh , uh . What an additional clever person could help with when we 're really in a crunch for time . Right ? Cuz Dave 's gonna be around for a long time ,\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor F: right ? He 's {disfmarker} he 's gonna be here for years . And so , um ,\nPhD G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: over years , if he 's {disfmarker} if he 's interested in , you know , voiced - unvoiced - silence , he could do a lot . But if there {disfmarker} if in fact there 's something else {pause} that he could be doing , that would help us when we 're {disfmarker} we 're sort of uh strapped for time {disfmarker} We have {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we 've , you know , only , {pause} uh , another {disfmarker} another month or two {pause} to {disfmarker} you know , with the holidays in the middle of it , um , to {disfmarker} to get a lot done . If we can think of something {disfmarker} some piece of this that 's going to be {disfmarker} The very fact that it is sort of just work , and i and it 's running programs and so forth , is exactly why {pause} it 's possible that it {disfmarker} some piece of could be handed to someone to do , because it 's not {disfmarker} Uh , yeah , so that {disfmarker} that 's the question . And we don't have to solve it right this s second , but if we could think of some {disfmarker} some piece that 's {disfmarker} that 's well defined , that he could help with , he 's expressing a will willingness to do that .\n",
      "PhD A: What about training up a , um , a multilingual net ?\nProfessor F: Uh .\nPhD E: Yes , maybe to , mmm , put together the {disfmarker} the label {disfmarker} the labels between TIMIT and Spanish or something like that .\nPhD G: Yeah . Yeah , so defining the superset ,\nPhD E: Yes .\nPhD G: and , uh , joining the data and {disfmarker} Mmm .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Uh . Yeah , that 's something that needs to be done in any event .\nPhD E: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor F: So what we were just saying is that {disfmarker} that , um {disfmarker} I was arguing for , {pause} if possible , coming up with something that {disfmarker} that really was development and wasn't research because we {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} we have a time crunch . And so , uh , if there 's something that would {disfmarker} would save some time that someone else could do on some other piece , then we should think of that first . See the thing with voiced - unvoiced - silence is I really think that {disfmarker} that it 's {disfmarker} to do {disfmarker} to do a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a poor job is {disfmarker} is pretty quick , uh , or , you know , a so - so job . You can {disfmarker} you can {disfmarker} you can throw in a couple fea we know what {disfmarker} what kinds of features help with it .\n",
      "PhD E: Hmm .\nProfessor F: You can throw something in . You can do pretty well . But I remember , in fact , when you were working on that , and you worked on for few months , as I recall , and you got to , say ninety - three percent , and getting to ninety - four {pause} {vocalsound} really really hard .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm . Another year .\n",
      "Professor F: Yeah , yeah . So , um {disfmarker} And th th the other tricky thing is , since we are , uh , even though we 're not {disfmarker} we don't have a strict prohibition on memory size , and {disfmarker} and computational complexity , uh , clearly there 's some limitation to it . So if we have to {disfmarker} if we say we have to have a pitch detector , say , if we {disfmarker} if we 're trying to incorporate pitch information , or at least some kind of harmonic {disfmarker} harmonicity , or something , this is another whole thing , take a while to develop . Anyway , it 's a very very interesting topic . I mean , one {disfmarker} I think one of the {disfmarker} a lot of people would say , and I think Dan would also , uh , that one of the things wrong with current speech recognition is that we {disfmarker} we really do throw away all the harmonicity information . Uh , we try to get spectral envelopes . Reason for doing that is that most of the information about the phonetic identity is in the spectral envelopes are not in the harmonic detail . But the harmonic detail does tell you something . Like the fact that there is harmonic detail is {disfmarker} is real important . So . Um . So , uh . So I think {disfmarker} Yeah . So {disfmarker} wh that {disfmarker} so the {disfmarker} the other suggestion that just came up was , well what about having him {pause} work on the , uh , {pause} multilingual super f superset {pause} kind of thing . Uh , coming up with that and then , you know , training it {disfmarker} training a net on that , say , um , from {disfmarker} from , uh {disfmarker} from TIMIT or something . Is that {disfmarker} or uh , for multiple databases . What {disfmarker} what would you {disfmarker} what would you think it would {disfmarker} wh what would this task consist of ?\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , it would consist in , uh , well , um , creating the {disfmarker} the superset , and , uh , modifying the lab labels for matching the superset . Uh .\nProfessor F: Uh , creating a superset from looking at the multiple languages ,\nPhD G: Well , creating the mappings , actually .\nProfessor F: and then creating i m changing labels on TIMIT ?\nPhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Or on {disfmarker} or on multiple language {disfmarker} {vocalsound} multiple languages ?\nPhD E: No . The multiple language .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah , yeah , with the @ @ three languages ,\nPhD E: Maybe for the other language because TIMIT have more phone .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD A: So you 'd have to create a mapping from each language to the superset .\nProfessor F: Uh .\nPhD E: Yeah . Mm - hmm .\nPhD G: From each language to the superset ,\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD G: yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: There 's , um {disfmarker} Carmen was talking about this SAMPA thing , and it 's , um , {vocalsound} it 's an effort by linguists to come up with , um , a machine readable IPA , um , sort of thing , right ? And , um , they {disfmarker} they have a web site that Stephane was showing us that has , um {disfmarker} has all the English phonemes and their SAMPA correspondent , um , phoneme ,\nProfessor F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: and then , um , they have Spanish , they have German , they have all {disfmarker} all sorts of languages , um , mapping {disfmarker} mapping to the SAMPA phonemes , which {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah , the tr the transcription , though , for Albayzin is n the transcription are of SAMPA the same , uh , how you say , symbol that SAMPA appear .\nPhD B: SAMPA ? What does \" SAMPA \" mean ?\nProfessor F: Mm - hmm . Hmm .\nPhD E: But I don't know if TIMIT o how is TIMIT .\n",
      "PhD B: So , I mean {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: What {disfmarker}\nPhD B: I 'm sorry .\nProfessor F: Go ahead .\nPhD B: I was gonna say , does that mean IPA is not really international ?\nGrad C: No , it 's {disfmarker} it 's saying {disfmarker}\nPhD A: It uses special diacritics and stuff , which you can't do with ASCII characters .\nGrad C: y can't print on ASCII .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPhD A: So the SAMPA 's just mapping those .\n",
      "PhD B: Oh , I see . Got it .\nProfessor F: What , uh {disfmarker} Has OGI done anything about this issue ? Do they have {disfmarker} Do they have any kind of superset that they already have ?\nPhD G: I don't think so . Well , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they 're going actually the {disfmarker} the other way , defining uh , phoneme clusters , apparently . Well .\nProfessor F: Aha . That 's right . Uh , and that 's an interesting {pause} way to go too .\n",
      "PhD A: So they just throw the speech from all different languages together , then cluster it into sixty or fifty or whatever clusters ?\nPhD G: I think they 've not done it , uh , doing , uh , multiple language yet , but what they did is to training , uh , English nets with all the phonemes , and then training it in English nets with , uh , kind of seventeen , I think it was {disfmarker} seventeen , uh , broad classes .\nPhD A: Automatically derived {disfmarker} Mm - hmm . Automatically derived broad classes , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD G: Yeah . Yeah , I think so .\n",
      "PhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD G: Uh , and , yeah . And the result was that apparently , when testing on cross - language it was better . I think so . But Hynek didn't add {disfmarker} didn't have all the results when he showed me that , so , well .\nProfessor F: So that does make an interesting question , though .\nPhD G: But {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: Is there 's some way that we should tie into that with this . Um . Right ? I mean , if {disfmarker} if in fact that is a better thing to do , {pause} should we leverage that , rather than doing , {pause} um , our own . Right ? So , if i if {disfmarker} if they s I mean , we have {disfmarker} {pause} i we have the {disfmarker} the trainings with our own categories . And now we 're saying , \" Well , how do we handle cross - language ? \" And one way is to come up with a superset , but they are als they 're trying coming up with clustered , and do we think there 's something wrong with that ?\n",
      "PhD G: I think that there 's something wrong\nProfessor F: OK . What w\nPhD G: or {disfmarker} Well , because {disfmarker} Well , for the moment we are testing on digits , and e i perhaps u using broad phoneme classes , it 's {disfmarker} it 's OK for um , uh classifying the digits , but as soon as you will have more words , well , words can differ with only a single phoneme , and {disfmarker} which could be the same , uh , class .\nProfessor F: I see .\nPhD G: Well . So .\n",
      "Professor F: Right . Although , you are not using this for the {disfmarker}\nPhD G: So , I 'm\nProfessor F: You 're using this for the feature generation , though , not the {disfmarker}\nPhD G: Yeah , but you will ask the net to put one for th th the phoneme class\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: and {disfmarker} So .\nPhD A: So you 're saying that there may not be enough information coming out of the net to help you discriminate the words ?\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD G: Well . Yeah , yeah . Mmm .\n",
      "PhD B: Fact , most confusions are within the phone {disfmarker} phone classes , right ? I think , uh , Larry was saying like obstruents are only confused with other obstruents , et cetera , et cetera .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD A: Hmm .\nProfessor F: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD G: Yeah , this is another p yeah , another point .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad C: So {disfmarker} so , maybe we could look at articulatory type stuff ,\nProfessor F: But that 's what I thought they were gonna {disfmarker}\nGrad C: right ?\n",
      "Professor F: Did they not do that , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD G: I don't think so . Well ,\nProfessor F: So {disfmarker}\nPhD G: they were talking about , perhaps , but they d\nProfessor F: They 're talking about it ,\nPhD G: I d\nProfessor F: but that 's sort of a question whether they did\nPhD G: w Yeah .\nProfessor F: because that 's {disfmarker} that 's the other route to go .\nGrad C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor F: Instead of this , you know {disfmarker}\nGrad C: Superclass .\n",
      "Professor F: Instead of the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the superclass thing , which is to take {disfmarker} So suppose y you don't really mark arti To really mark articulatory features , you really wanna look at the acoustics and {disfmarker} and see where everything is , and we 're not gonna do that . So , uh , the second class way of doing it is {pause} to look at the , uh , phones that are labeled and translate them into acoustic {disfmarker} uh , uh {disfmarker} articulatory , uh , uh , features . So it won't really be right . You won't really have these overlapping {pause} things and so forth ,\n",
      "PhD A: So the targets of the net {disfmarker} are these {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor F: but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Articulatory features .\nProfessor F: Articulatory feature .\nPhD A: But that implies that you can have more than one on at a time ?\nProfessor F: Right . That 's right .\nPhD A: Ah . OK .\nProfessor F: You either do that or you have multiple nets .\nPhD A: I see .\n",
      "Professor F:  Um . And , um I don't know if our software {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} if the qu versions of the Quicknet that we 're using allows for that . Do you know ?\nGrad C: Allows for {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor F: Multiple targets being one ?\nGrad C: Oh , um , we have gotten soft targets to {disfmarker} to work .\nProfessor F: OK . So that {disfmarker} that 'll work , yeah .\nGrad C: Yeah .\nProfessor F: OK . So , um , that 's another thing that could be done {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD B: Um .\n",
      "Professor F: is that we could {disfmarker} we could , uh , just translate {disfmarker} instead of translating to a superset , {pause} just translate to articulatory features , some set of articulatory features and train with that . Now the fact {disfmarker} even though it 's a smaller number , {pause} it 's still fine because you have the {disfmarker} the , uh , combinations . So , in fact , it has every , you know {disfmarker} it had {disfmarker} has {disfmarker} has every distinction in it that you would have the other way .\n",
      "PhD G: Yeah .\nProfessor F: But it should go across languages better .\nPhD A: We could do an interesting cheating experiment with that too . We could {disfmarker} I don't know , if you had uh the phone labels , you could replace them by their articulatory features and then feed in a vector with those uh , things turned on based on what they 're supposed to be for each phone to see if it {disfmarker} if you get a big win . Do you know what I 'm saying ?\nProfessor F: No .\n",
      "PhD A: So , um , I mean , if your net is gonna be outputting , uh , a vector of {disfmarker} basically of {disfmarker} well , it 's gonna have probabilities , but let 's say that they were ones and zeros , then y and you know for each , um , I don't know if you know this for your testing data , but if you know for your test data , you know , what the string of phones is and {disfmarker} and you have them aligned , then you can just {disfmarker} instead of going through the net , just create the vector for each phone and feed that in to see if that data helps . Eh , eh , what made me think about this is , I was talking with Hynek and he said that there was a guy at A T - andT who spent eighteen months working on a single feature . And because they had done some cheating experiments {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor F: This was the guy that we were just talking a that we saw on campus . So , this was Larry Saul who did this {disfmarker} did this .\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nProfessor F: He used sonorants .\nPhD A: Right , OK ,\nProfessor F: Was what he was doing .\nPhD A: right . And they {disfmarker} they had done a cheating experiment or something , right ?\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nPhD A: and determined that {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: He {disfmarker} he di he didn't mention that part .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , Hynek said that {disfmarker} that , I guess before they had him work on this , they had done some experiment where if they could get that one feature right , it dramatically improved the result .\nProfessor F: But . I see . OK .\nPhD A: So I was thinking , you know {disfmarker} it made me think about this , that if {disfmarker} it 'd be an interesting experiment just to see , you know , if you did get all of those right .\n",
      "Professor F: Should be . Because if you get all of them in there , that defines all of the phones . So that 's {disfmarker} that 's equivalent to saying that you 've got {disfmarker} {vocalsound} got all the phones right .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor F: So , if that doesn't help , there 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: Although , yeah , it would be {disfmarker} make an interesting cheating experiment because we are using it in this funny way ,\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor F: where we 're converting it into features .\n",
      "PhD A: And then you also don't know what error they 've got on the HTK side . You know ? It sort of gives you your {disfmarker} the best you could hope for , kind of .\nProfessor F: Yeah .\nGrad C: Mmm . Mmm , I see .\nPhD B: The soft training of the nets still requires the vector to sum to one , though , right ?\nGrad C: To sum up to one .\n",
      "PhD B: So you can't really feed it , like , two articulatory features that are on at the same time with ones cuz it 'll kind of normalize them down to one half or something like that , for instance .\nPhD G: But perhaps you have the choice of the {pause} final nonl\nGrad C: Right . Nonlinearity ?\nPhD G: uh , nonlinearity ,\nGrad C: Um ,\nPhD G: yeah . Is it always softmax\nGrad C: it 's sig No , it 's actually sigmoid - X\nPhD G: or {disfmarker} ? Yeah .\n",
      "Grad C: for the {disfmarker}\nPhD G: So if you choose sigmoid it 's o it 's OK ?\nGrad C: You , um {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: Did we just run out of disk ,\nGrad C: I think {disfmarker} I think apparently , the , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor F: or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD B: Why don't you just choose linear ? Right ?\nGrad C: What 's that ?\nPhD B: Linear outputs ?\nGrad C: Linear outputs ?\nPhD B: Isn't that what you 'll want ?\nGrad C: Um .\n"
    ],
    "length": 27020,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 79,
    "question": "What were the main discussion points of the meeting?",
    "answer": "The group discussed topics including a potential collaboration with another ICSI member regarding the analysis of inference structures, efforts by speaker mn005 to detect speaker overlap, the current status of recordings and transcriptions, and future efforts to collect meeting data. In addition to weekly meetings by the BMR group, efforts are in progress to record meetings by other ICSI research groups, as well as routine discussions by non-ICSI members.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor E: So . OK . Doesn't look like it crashed . That 's great .\nGrad G: So I think maybe what 's causing it to crash is I keep starting it and then stopping it to see if it 's working . And so I think starting it and then stopping it and starting it again causes it to crash . So , I won't do that anymore .\nPostdoc B: And it looks like you 've found a way of uh mapping the location to the {disfmarker} without having people have to give their names each time ?\nPhD A: Sounds like an initialization thing .\n",
      "Postdoc B: I mean it 's like you have the {disfmarker} So you know that {disfmarker}\nGrad G: No .\nPostdoc B: I mean , are you going to write down {pause} that I sat here ?\nGrad G: I 'm gonna collect the digit forms and write it down .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nPhD C: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Grad G: So {disfmarker} So they should be right with what 's on the digit forms . OK , so I 'll go ahead and start with digits . u And I should say that uh , you just pau you just read each line an and then pause briefly .\nProfessor E: And start by giving the transcript number .\nPhD A: Tran\nPhD D: Transcript {disfmarker} Uh . OK , OK .\nPhD A: Oh sorry , go ahead .\nProfessor E: So uh , you see , Don , the unbridled excitement of the work that we have on this project .\nGrad H: OK .\n",
      "Professor E: It 's just uh {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Umh .\nProfessor E: Uh , you know , it doesn't seem like a bad idea to have {comment} that information .\nGrad G: And I 'm surprised I sort of {disfmarker} I 'm surprised I forgot that ,\nProfessor E: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I 'd {disfmarker} I think it 's some\nGrad G: but uh I think that would be a good thing to add . After I just printed out a zillion of them .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , well , that 's {disfmarker} Um , so I {disfmarker} I do have a {disfmarker} a an agenda suggestion . Uh , we {disfmarker} I think the things that we talk about in this meeting uh tend to be a mixture of uh procedural uh mundane things and uh research points and um I was thinking I think it was a meeting a couple of weeks ago that we {disfmarker} we spent much of the time talking about the mundane stuff cuz that 's easier to get out of the way and then we sort of drifted into the research and maybe five minutes into that Andreas had to leave . So {vocalsound} uh I 'm suggesting we turn it around and {disfmarker} and uh sort of we have {disfmarker} anybody has some mundane points that we could send an email later , uh hold them for a bit , and let 's talk about the {disfmarker} the research - y kind of things . Um , so um the one th one thing I know that we have on that is uh we had talked a {disfmarker} a couple weeks before um uh about the uh {disfmarker} the stuff you were doing with {disfmarker} with uh um uh l l attempting to locate events , we had a little go around trying to figure out what you meant by \" events \" but I think , you know , what we had meant by \" events \" I guess was uh points of overlap between speakers . But I th I gather from our discussion a little earlier today that you also mean uh interruptions with something else\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: like some other noise .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yes ? You mean that as an event also .\nPhD D: To\nProfessor E: So at any rate you were {disfmarker} you 've {disfmarker} you 've done some work on that\nPhD D: right .\n",
      "Professor E: and um then the other thing would be it might be nice to have a preliminary discussion of some of the other uh research uh areas that uh we 're thinking about doing . Um , I think especially since you {disfmarker} you haven't been in {disfmarker} in these meetings for a little bit , maybe you have some discussion of some of the p the plausible things to look at now that we 're starting to get data , uh and one of the things I know that also came up uh is some discussions that {disfmarker} that uh {disfmarker} that uh Jane had with Lokendra uh about some {disfmarker} some {disfmarker} some um uh work about I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I d I {disfmarker} I don't want to try to say cuz I {disfmarker} I 'll say it wrong , but anyway some {disfmarker} some potential collaboration there about {disfmarker} about the {disfmarker} about the {disfmarker} working with these data .\n",
      "PhD C: Oh . Sure .\nProfessor E: So . So , uh .\nGrad G: You wanna just go around ?\nProfessor E: Uh . {pause} Well , I don't know if we {disfmarker} if this is sort of like everybody has something to contribute sort of thing , I think there 's just just a couple {disfmarker} a couple people primarily um but um Uh , wh why don't {disfmarker} Actually I think that {disfmarker} that last one I just said we could do fairly quickly so why don't you {disfmarker} you start with that .\n",
      "Postdoc B: OK . Shall I {disfmarker} shall I just start ? OK .\nProfessor E: Yeah , just explain what it was .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Um , so , uh , he was interested in the question of {disfmarker} you know , relating to his {disfmarker} to the research he presented recently , um of inference structures , and uh , the need to build in , um , this {disfmarker} this sort of uh mechanism for understanding of language . And he gave the example in his talk about how {pause} um , e a I 'm remembering it just off the top of my head right now , but it 's something about how um , i \" Joe slipped \" you know , \" John had washed the floor \" or something like that . And I don't have it quite right , but that kind of thing , where you have to draw the inference that , OK , there 's this time sequence , but also the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the causal aspects of the uh floor and {disfmarker} and how it might have been the cause of the fall and that um it was the other person who fell than the one who cleaned it and it {disfmarker} {comment} These sorts of things . So , I looked through the transcript that we have so far , {comment} and um , fou identified a couple different types of things of that type and um , one of them was something like uh , during the course of the transcript , um um , w we had gone through the part where everyone said which channel they were on and which device they were on , and um , the question was raised \" Well , should we restart the recording at this point ? \" And {disfmarker} and Dan Ellis said , \" Well , we 're just so far ahead of the game right now {pause} we really don't need to \" . Now , how would you interpret that without a lot of inference ? So , the inferences that are involved are things like , OK , so , how do you interpret \" ahead of the game \" ? You know . So it 's the {disfmarker} it 's {pause} i What you {disfmarker} what you int what you draw {disfmarker} you know , the conclusions that you need to draw are that space is involved in recording ,\n",
      "Grad G: Hmm , metaphorically .\nPostdoc B: that um , i that {pause} i we have enough space , and he continues , like \" we 're so ahead of the game cuz now we have built - in downsampling \" . So you have to sort of get the idea that um , \" ahead of the game \" is sp speaking with respect to space limitations , that um that in fact downsampling is gaining us enough space , and that therefore we can keep the recording we 've done so far . But there are a lot of different things like that .\n",
      "Grad G: So , do you think his interest is in using this as {pause} a data source , or {pause} training material , or what ?\nProfessor E: Well , I {disfmarker} I should maybe interject to say this started off with a discussion that I had with him , so um we were trying to think of ways that his interests could interact with ours\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: and um uh I thought that if we were going to project into the future when we had a lot of data , uh and um such things might be useful for that in or before we invested too much uh effort into that he should uh , with Jane 's help , look into some of the data that we 're {disfmarker} already have and see , is there anything to this at all ?\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Is there any point which you think that , you know , you could gain some advantage and some potential use for it . Cuz it could be that you 'd look through it and you say \" well , this is just the wrong {pause} task for {disfmarker} for him to pursue his {disfmarker} \"\nGrad G: Wrong , yeah .\nProfessor E: And {disfmarker} and uh I got the impression from your mail that in fact there was enough things like this just in the little sample that {disfmarker} that you looked at that {disfmarker} that it 's plausible at least .\n",
      "Postdoc B: It 's possible . Uh , he was {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} he {disfmarker} you know {disfmarker} We met and he was gonna go and uh you know , y look through them more systematically\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: and then uh meet again .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: So it 's , you know , not a matter of a {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: But , yeah , I think {disfmarker} I think it was optimistic .\n",
      "Professor E: So anyway , that 's {disfmarker} that 's e a quite different thing from anything we 've talked about that , you know , might {disfmarker} might {disfmarker} might come out from some of this .\nPhD C: But he can use text , basically . I mean , he 's talking about just using text\nPostdoc B: That 's his major {disfmarker} I mentioned several that w had to do with implications drawn from intonational contours\nPhD C: pretty much , or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Postdoc B: and {pause} that wasn't as directly relevant to what he 's doing . He 's interested in these {disfmarker} these knowledge structures ,\nPhD C: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah , interesting .\nPostdoc B: inferences that you draw {pause} i from {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: I mean , he certainly could use text , but we were in fact looking to see if there {disfmarker} is there {disfmarker} is there something in common between our interest in meetings and his interest in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in this stuff . So .\n",
      "Grad G: And I imagine that transcripts of speech {disfmarker} I mean text that is speech {disfmarker} probably has more of those than sort of prepared writing . I {disfmarker} I don't know whether it would or not , but it seems like it would .\nProfessor E: I don't know , probably de probably depends on what the prepared writing was . But .\nPostdoc B: Yeah , I don't think I would make that leap , because i in narratives , you know {disfmarker} I mean , if you spell out everything in a narrative , it can be really tedious ,\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc B: so .\nGrad G: Yeah , I 'm just thinking , you know , when you 're {disfmarker} when you 're face to face , you have a lot of backchannel and {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Oh . That aspect .\nGrad G: Yeah . And so I think it 's just easier to do that sort of broad inference jumping if it 's face to face . I mean , so , if I just read that Dan was saying \" we 're ahead of the game \" {comment} in that {disfmarker} in that context ,\n",
      "Postdoc B: Well {disfmarker} Yeah .\nGrad G: I might not realize that he was talking about disk space as opposed to anything else .\nPostdoc B: I {disfmarker} you know , I {disfmarker} I had several that had to do with backchannels and this wasn't one of them .\nGrad G: Uh - huh .\nPostdoc B: This {disfmarker} this one really does um m make you leap from {disfmarker} So he said , you know , \" we 're ahead of the game , w we have built - in downsampling \" .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc B: And the inference , i if you had it written down , would be {disfmarker}\nGrad G: I guess it would be the same .\nPostdoc B: Uh - huh . But there are others that have backchannelling , it 's just he was less interested in those .\n",
      "PhD F: Can I {disfmarker} Sorry to interrupt . Um , I f f f I 've {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} d A minute {disfmarker} uh , several minutes ago , I , like , briefly was {disfmarker} was not listening and {disfmarker} So who is \" he \" in this context ?\nPhD C: Yeah , there 's a lot of pronoun {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD F: OK . So I was just realizing we 've {disfmarker} You guys have been talking about \" he \" um for at least uh , I don't know , three {disfmarker} three four minutes without ever mentioning the person 's name again .\nPhD C: I believe it . Yeah . Actually to make it worse , {comment} uh , Morgan uses \" you \" and \" you \"\n",
      "PhD F: So this is {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} this is {disfmarker} gonna be a big , big problem if you want to later do uh , you know , indexing , or speech understanding of any sort .\nGrad G: It 's in my notes .\nPhD C: with gaze and no identification , or {disfmarker} I just wrote this down . Yeah , actually . Cuz Morgan will say well , \" you had some ideas \"\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: You just wrote this ?\nPhD C: and he never said Li - He looked {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Well , I think he 's doing that intentionally ,\nPhD C: Right , so it 's great .\nGrad G: aren't you ?\nPhD C: So this is really great\nPhD F: Right .\nPhD C: because the thing is , because he 's looking at the per even for addressees in the conversation ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\nPhD C: I bet you could pick that up in the acoustics . Just because your gaze is also correlated with the directionality of your voice .\nProfessor E: Uh - huh . Could be .\nPostdoc B: Can we\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . That would be tou\nGrad G: Oh , that would be interesting .\nPhD C: Yeah , so that , I mean , to even know um when {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah , if you have the P Z Ms you should be able to pick up what a person is looking at from their voice .\nGrad G: Well , especially with Morgan , with the way we have the microphones arranged . I 'm sort of right on axis and it would be very hard to tell .\nPhD C: Right .\nGrad G: Uh .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Oh , but you 'd have the {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Put Morgan always like this\nPostdoc B: You 'd have fainter {disfmarker}\nPhD C: and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Wouldn't you get fainter reception out here ?\nProfessor E: Well , these {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Sure , but I think if I 'm talking like this ? Right now I 'm looking at Jane and talking , now I 'm looking at Chuck and talking , I don't think the microphones would pick up that difference .\n",
      "PhD C: But you don't have this {disfmarker} this problem .\nPostdoc B: I see .\nPhD C: Morgan is the one who does this most .\nGrad G: So if I 'm talking at you , or I 'm talking at you .\nProfessor E: I probably been affect No , I th I think I 've been affected by too many conversations where we were talking about lawyers and talking about {disfmarker} and concerns about \" oh gee is somebody going to say something bad ? \" and so on .\nGrad G: Lawyers .\n",
      "Professor E: And so I {disfmarker} so I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm tending to stay away from people 's names even though uh {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: I am too .\nPhD C: Even though you could pick up later on , just from the acoustics who you were t who you were looking at .\nPostdoc B: I am too .\nGrad G: And we did mention who \" he \" was .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Right , but I missed it .\nGrad G: Early in the conversation .\n",
      "PhD F: But {disfmarker} it was uh {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah , yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Do {disfmarker} Sh - Can I say\nProfessor E: Yeah . No no , there 's {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Yeah .\nGrad G: or {disfmarker} or is that just too sensitive ?\nProfessor E: No no , it isn't sensitive at all .\nPostdoc B: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: I was just {disfmarker} I was just {disfmarker} I was overreacting just because we 've been talking about it .\nPostdoc B: And in fact , it is {disfmarker} it is {disfmarker} it is sensitive .\nPhD C: No , but that {disfmarker} it 's interesting .\nProfessor E: It 's OK to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc B: I {disfmarker} I came up with something from the Human Subjects people that I wanted to mention . I mean , it fits into the m area of the mundane , but they did say {disfmarker} You know , I asked her very specifically about this clause of how , um , you know , it says \" no individuals will be identified uh , \" in any publication using the data . \" OK , well , individuals being identified , let 's say you have a {disfmarker} a snippet that says , \" Joe s uh thinks such - and - such about {disfmarker} about this field , but I think he 's wrongheaded . \" Now I mean , we 're {disfmarker} we 're gonna be careful not to have the \" wrongheaded \" part in there , but {disfmarker} but you know , let 's say we say , you know , \" Joe used to think so - and - so about this area , in his publication he says that but I think he 's changed his mind . \" or whatever . Then the issue of {disfmarker} of being able to trace Joe , because we know he 's well - known in this field , and all this and {disfmarker} and tie it to the speaker , whose name was just mentioned a moment ago , can be sensitive .\n",
      "Professor E: b But I {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: So I think it 's really {disfmarker} really kind of adaptive and wise to not mention names any more than we have to because if there 's a slanderous aspect to it , then how much to we wanna be able to have to remove ?\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , well , there 's that . But I {disfmarker} I mean I think also to some extent it 's just educating the Human Subjects people , in a way , because there 's {disfmarker} If uh {disfmarker} You know , there 's court transcripts , there 's {disfmarker} there 's transcripts of radio shows {disfmarker} I mean people say people 's names all the time . So I think it {disfmarker} it can't be bad to say people 's names . It 's just that {disfmarker} i I mean you 're right that there 's more poten If we never say anybody 's name , then there 's no chance of {disfmarker} of {disfmarker} of slandering anybody ,\n",
      "PhD C: But , then it won't {disfmarker} I mean , if we {disfmarker} if we {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: but {disfmarker}\nGrad G: It 's not a meeting .\nPhD C: Yeah . I mean we should do whatever 's natural in a meeting if {disfmarker} if we weren't being recorded .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Right , so I {disfmarker} So my behavior is probably not natural .\nPhD C: \" If Person X {disfmarker} \"\nProfessor E: So .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Well , my feeling on it was that it wasn't really important who said it , you know .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD F: Well , if you ha since you have to um go over the transcripts later anyway , you could make it one of the jobs of the {pause} people who do that to mark\nGrad G: Well , we t we t we talked about this during the anon anonymization .\nPhD F: Right .\nGrad G: If we wanna go through and extract from the audio and the written every time someone says a name . And I thought that our conclusion was that we didn't want to do that .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , we really can't . But a actually , I 'm sorry . I really would like to push {disfmarker} finish this off .\nPostdoc B: I understand . No I just {disfmarker} I just was suggesting that it 's not a bad policy p potentially .\nProfessor E: So it 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: So , we need to talk about this later .\nProfessor E: Yeah , I di I didn't intend it an a policy though .\nPostdoc B: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Professor E: It was {disfmarker} it was just it was just unconscious {disfmarker} well , semi - conscious behavior . I sorta knew I was doing it but it was {disfmarker}\nPhD F: Well , I still don't know who \" he \" is .\nProfessor E: I {disfmarker} I do I don't remember who \" he \" is .\nPhD C: No , you have to say , you still don't know who \" he \" is , with that prosody .\nProfessor E: Ah . Uh , we were talking about Dan at one point {comment} and we were talking about Lokendra at another point .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Yeah , depends on which one you mean .\nProfessor E: And I don't {disfmarker} I don't remember which {disfmarker} which part .\nPhD F: Oh .\nPhD C: It 's ambiguous , so it 's OK .\nProfessor E: Uh , I think {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Well , the inference structures was Lokendra .\nPhD F: But no . The inference stuff was {disfmarker} was {disfmarker} was Lokendra .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD F: OK . That makes sense , yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: And the downsampling must have been Dan .\nProfessor E: Um {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Good {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD C: It 's an inference .\nProfessor E: Yeah , you could do all these inferences , yeah .\nGrad G: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Um , I {disfmarker} I would like to move it into {disfmarker} into uh what Jose uh has been doing\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nProfessor E: because he 's actually been doing something .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . OK .\n",
      "Professor E: So . {vocalsound} Right .\nPhD F: As opposed to the rest of us .\n",
      "PhD D: Well - {comment} {vocalsound} OK . I {disfmarker} I remind that me {disfmarker} my first objective eh , in the project is to {disfmarker} to study difference parameters to {disfmarker} to find a {disfmarker} a good solution to detect eh , the overlapping zone in eh speech recorded . But eh , {vocalsound} tsk , {comment} {vocalsound} ehhh {comment} In that way {comment} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I begin to {disfmarker} to study and to analyze the ehn {disfmarker} the recorded speech eh the different session to {disfmarker} to find and to locate and to mark eh the {disfmarker} the different overlapping zone . And eh so eh I was eh {disfmarker} I am transcribing the {disfmarker} the first session and I {disfmarker} I have found eh , eh one thousand acoustic events , eh besides the overlapping zones , eh I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I mean the eh breaths eh aspiration eh , eh , talk eh , eh , clap , eh {disfmarker} {comment} I don't know what is the different names eh you use to {disfmarker} to name the {disfmarker} the {pause} n speech\n",
      "PhD A: Nonspeech sounds ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Oh , I don't think we 've been doing it at that level of detail . So .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Eh , {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I do I don't need to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to mmm {vocalsound} {disfmarker} to m to label the {disfmarker} the different acoustic , but I prefer because eh I would like to {disfmarker} to study if eh , I {disfmarker} I will find eh , eh , a good eh parameters eh to detect overlapping I would like to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to test these parameters eh with the {disfmarker} another eh , eh acoustic events , to nnn {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to eh {disfmarker} to find what is the ehm {disfmarker} the false {disfmarker} eh , the false eh hypothesis eh , nnn , which eh are produced when we use the {disfmarker} the ehm {disfmarker} this eh parameter {disfmarker} eh I mean pitch eh , eh , difference eh , feature {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: You know {disfmarker} I think some of these um that are the nonspeech overlapping events may be difficult even for humans to tell that there 's two there .\nGrad G: So it was {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: I mean , if it 's a tapping sound , you wouldn't necessarily {disfmarker} or , you know , something like that , it 'd be {disfmarker} it might be hard to know that it was two separate events .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Well {disfmarker} You weren't talking about just overlaps\nPhD D: Ye\nGrad G: were you ? You were just talking about acoustic events .\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I t I t I talk eh about eh acoustic events in general ,\nGrad G: Someone starts , someone stops {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD D: but eh my {disfmarker} my objective eh will be eh to study eh overlapping zone .\nGrad G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: Eh ? {comment} n Eh in twelve minutes I found eh , eh one thousand acoustic events .\nProfessor E: How many overlaps were there uh in it ? No no , how many of them were the overlaps of speech , though ?\nPhD D: How many ? Eh almost eh three hundred eh in one session\nGrad G: Oh , God !\nPhD D: in five {disfmarker} eh in forty - five minutes .\nPhD A: Three hundred overlapping speech {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Alm - Three hundred overlapping zone .\nGrad G: Ugh .\nPhD C: Overlapping speech .\n",
      "PhD D: With the overlapping zone , overlapping speech {disfmarker} speech what eh different duration .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Sure .\nPostdoc B: Does this {disfmarker} ? So if you had an overlap involving three people , how many times was that counted ?\nPhD D: Yeah , three people , two people . Eh , um I would like to consider eh one people with difference noise eh in the background , be\n",
      "Professor E: No no , but I think what she 's asking is {pause} if at some particular for some particular stretch you had three people talking , instead of two , did you call that one event ?\nPhD D: Oh . Oh . Yeah . I consider one event eh for th for that eh for all the zone . This {disfmarker} th I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I con I consider {disfmarker} I consider eh an acoustic event , the overlapping zone , the period where three speaker or eh {disfmarker} are talking together .\n",
      "Grad G: Well {disfmarker} So let 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: For\nGrad G: So let 's say me and Jane are talking at the same time , and then Liz starts talking also over all of us . How many events would that be ?\nPhD D: So - I don't understand .\nGrad G: So , two people are talking , {comment} and then a third person starts talking .\nPhD D: Yeah ?\nGrad G: Is there an event right here ?\n",
      "PhD D: Eh no . No no . For me is the overlapping zone , because {disfmarker} because you {disfmarker} you have s you have more one {disfmarker} eh , more one voice eh , eh produced in a {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in a moment .\nProfessor E: I see .\nGrad G: So i if two or more people are talking .\nProfessor E: OK . Yeah . So I think {disfmarker} Yeah . We just wanted to understand how you 're defining it .\nPhD D: Yeah . If\n",
      "Professor E: So then , in the region between {disfmarker} since there {disfmarker} there is some continuous region , in between regions where there is only one person speaking .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor E: And one contiguous region like that you 're calling an event .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor E: Is it {disfmarker} Are you calling the beginning or the end of it the event ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: or are you calling the entire length of it the event ?\n",
      "PhD D: I consider the {disfmarker} the , nnn {disfmarker} the nnn , nnn {disfmarker} eh , the entirety eh , eh , all {disfmarker} all the time there were {disfmarker} the voice has overlapped .\nProfessor E: OK .\n",
      "PhD D: This is the idea . But eh I {disfmarker} I don't distinguish between the {disfmarker} the numbers of eh speaker . Uh , I 'm not considering {vocalsound} eh the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} ehm {vocalsound} eh , the fact of eh , eh , for example , what did you say ? Eh at first eh , eh two talkers are uh , eh speaking , and eh , eh a third person eh join to {disfmarker} to that . For me , it 's eh {disfmarker} it 's eh , all overlap zone , with eh several numbers of speakers is eh , eh the same acoustic event . Wi - but {disfmarker} uh , without any mark between the zone {disfmarker} of the overlapping zone with two speakers eh speaking together , and the zone with the three speakers .\n",
      "Postdoc B: That would j just be one .\nPhD D: It {disfmarker} One . One .\nPostdoc B: OK .\nPhD D: Eh , with eh , a beginning mark and the ending mark . Because eh {vocalsound} for me , is the {disfmarker} is the zone with eh some kind of eh distortion the spectral .\nProfessor E: Got it .\nPhD D: I don't mind {disfmarker} By the moment , by the moment .\nGrad G: Well , but {disfmarker} But you could imagine that three people talking has a different spectral characteristic than two .\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} Yeah , but eh {disfmarker} but eh I have to study . {comment} What will happen in a general way ,\nProfessor E: Could .\nGrad G: So . You had to start somewhere .\nProfessor E: Yeah . We just w\nPhD C: So there 's a lot of overlap .\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I don't know what eh will {disfmarker} will happen with the {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yep .\nPhD C: So .\n",
      "Grad G: That 's a lot of overlap ,\nPhD D: Yeah ?\nProfessor E: So again , that 's {disfmarker} that 's three {disfmarker} three hundred in forty - five minutes that are {disfmarker} that are speakers , just speakers .\nGrad G: yeah , for forty - five minutes .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Uh - huh . OK . Yeah .\nPostdoc B: But a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a th\nProfessor E: So that 's about eight per minute .\n",
      "Postdoc B: But a thousand events in twelve minutes , that 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah , {pause} but {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD C: But that can include taps .\nPhD D: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Uh . Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Well , but a thousand taps in eight minutes is a l in twelve minutes is a lot .\nPhD D: General .\nPhD C: Actually {disfmarker}\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I con I consider {disfmarker} I consider acoustic events eh , the silent too .\nPostdoc B: Silent .\n",
      "Grad G: Silence starting or silence ending {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah , silent , ground to {disfmarker} bec to detect {disfmarker} eh because I consider acoustic event all the things are not eh speech .\nPhD C: Oh , OK .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD D: In ge in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in a general point of view .\nPhD C: Oh .\nProfessor E: OK , so how many of those thousand were silence ?\nPhD C: Alright .\nPhD D: in the per\n",
      "PhD F: Not speech {disfmarker} not speech or too much speech .\nPhD D: Too much speech .\nProfessor E: Right . So how many of those thousand were silence , silent sections ?\nPhD D: Yeah . Uh silent , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I haven't the {disfmarker} eh I {disfmarker} I would like to {disfmarker} to do a stylistic study\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: and give you eh with the report eh from eh the {disfmarker} the study from the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the session {disfmarker} one session .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: And I {disfmarker} I found that eh another thing . When eh {vocalsound} eh I w I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I was eh look at eh nnn , the difference speech file , um , for example , eh if eh we use the ehm {disfmarker} the mixed file , to {disfmarker} to transcribe , the {disfmarker} the events and the words , I {disfmarker} I saw that eh the eh speech signal , collected by the eh this kind of mike {disfmarker} eh of this kind of mike , eh are different from the eh mixed signal eh , we eh {disfmarker} collected by headphone .\n",
      "Grad G: Yep .\nPhD D: And {disfmarker} It 's right .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Right .\n",
      "PhD D: But the problem is {vocalsound} the following . The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I knew that eh the signal eh , eh would be different , but eh the {disfmarker} the problem is eh , eh we eh detected eh difference events in the speech file eh collected by {disfmarker} by that mike uh qui compared with the mixed file . And so if {disfmarker} when you transcribe eh only eh using the nnn {disfmarker} the mixed file , it 's possible {disfmarker} eh if you use the transcription to evaluate a different system , it 's possible you eh {disfmarker} in the eh i and you use the eh speech file collected by the eh fet mike , to eh {disfmarker} to nnn {disfmarker} to do the experiments {pause} with the {disfmarker} the system ,\n",
      "Professor E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD D: its possible to evaluate eh , eh {disfmarker} or to consider eh acoustic events that {disfmarker} which you marked eh in the mixed file , but eh they don't appear in the eh speech signal eh collected by the {disfmarker} by the mike .\nGrad G: Right . The {disfmarker} the reason that I generated the mixed file was for IBM to do word level transcription , not speech event transcription .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Oh , it 's a good idea . It 's a good idea I think .\n",
      "Grad G: So I agree that if someone wants to do speech event transcription , that the mixed signals here {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: I mean , if I 'm tapping on the table , you it 's not gonna show up on any of the mikes , but it 's gonna show up rather loudly in the PZM .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah . So and I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I say eh that eh , eh , or this eh only because eh I c I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in my opinion , it 's necessary to eh {disfmarker} to eh {disfmarker} to put the transcription on the speech file , collected by the objective signal .\nGrad G: So .\n",
      "PhD D: I mean the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the signal collected by the {disfmarker} eh , the real mike in the future , in the prototype to {disfmarker} to eh correct the initial eh segmentation eh with the eh real speech\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm . The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the far - field , yeah .\nPhD D: you have to {disfmarker} to analyze {disfmarker} you have to {disfmarker} to process . Because I {disfmarker} I found a difference .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , well , just {disfmarker} I mean , just in that {disfmarker} that one s ten second , or whatever it was , example that Adam had that {disfmarker} that we {disfmarker} we passed on to others a few months ago , there was that business where I g I guess it was Adam and Jane were talking at the same time and {disfmarker} and uh , in the close - talking mikes you couldn't hear the overlap , and in the distant mike you could . So yeah , it 's clear that if you wanna study {disfmarker} if you wanna find all the places where there were overlap , it 's probably better to use a distant mike .\n",
      "PhD F: That 's good .\nProfessor E: On the other hand , there 's other phenomena that are going on at the same time for which it might be useful to look at the close - talking mikes ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: But why can't you use the combination of the close - talking mikes , time aligned ?\nProfessor E: so it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad G: If you use the combination of the close - talking mikes , you would hear Jane interrupting me , but you wouldn't hear the paper rustling . And so if you 're interested in {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: I {disfmarker} I mean if you 're interested in speakers overlapping other speakers and not the other kinds of nonspeech , that 's not a problem ,\nProfessor E: Some {comment} of it 's masking {disfmarker} masked .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Were you interrupting him or was he interrupting you ?\nProfessor E: Right .\nPhD C: right ?\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Although the other issue is that the {pause} mixed close - talking mikes {disfmarker} I mean , I 'm doing weird normalizations and things like that .\n",
      "PhD C: But it 's known .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD C: I mean , the normalization you do is over the whole conversation\nGrad G: Yep .\nPhD C: isn't it , over the whole meeting .\nGrad G: Right . Yep .\nPhD C: So if you wanted to study people overlapping people , that 's not a problem .\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think eh I saw the nnn {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} eh but eh I eh {disfmarker} I have eh any results . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I saw the {disfmarker} the speech file collected by eh the fet mike , and eh eh signal eh to eh {disfmarker} to noise eh relation is eh low . It 's low .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: It 's very low . You would comp if we compare it with eh the headphone .\n",
      "Grad G: Yep .\nPhD D: And I {disfmarker} I found that nnn {disfmarker} that eh , {vocalsound} ehm , pr probably ,\nGrad G: Did {disfmarker} Did you\n",
      "PhD D: I 'm not sure eh by the moment , but it 's {disfmarker} it 's probably that eh a lot of eh , {vocalsound} eh for example , in the overlapping zone , on eh {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in several eh parts of the files where you {disfmarker} you can find eh , eh {vocalsound} eh , smooth eh eh speech eh from eh one eh eh talker in the {disfmarker} in the meeting ,\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: it 's probably in {disfmarker} in that eh {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in those files you {disfmarker} you can not find {disfmarker} you can not process because eh it 's confused with {disfmarker} with noise .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: And there are {vocalsound} a lot of I think . But I have to study with more detail . But eh my idea is to {disfmarker} to process only {pause} nnn , this eh {disfmarker} nnn , this kind of s of eh speech . Because I think it 's more realistic . I 'm not sure it 's a good idea , but eh {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: No {disfmarker} i\nGrad G: Well , it 's more realistic but it 'll {disfmarker} it 'll be a lot harder .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: Well , it 'd be hard , but on the other hand as you point out , if your {disfmarker} if i if {disfmarker} if your concern is to get uh the overlapping people {disfmarker} people 's speech , you will {disfmarker} you will get that somewhat better .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Um , Are you making any use {disfmarker} uh you were {disfmarker} you were working with th the data that had already been transcribed .\nPhD D: With {disfmarker} By Jane .\n",
      "Professor E: Does it uh {disfmarker} Yes .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Now um did you make any use of that ? See I was wondering cuz we st we have these ten hours of other stuff that is not yet transcribed .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Do you {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: The {disfmarker} the transcription by Jane , t eh i eh , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I want to use to {disfmarker} to nnn , {vocalsound} eh to put {disfmarker} i i it 's a reference for me . But eh the transcription {disfmarker} eh for example , I {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I 'm not interested in the {disfmarker} in the {disfmarker} in the words , transcription words , eh transcribed eh eh in {disfmarker} eh follow in the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} in the {disfmarker} in the speech file , but eh eh Jane eh for example eh put a mark eh at the beginning eh of each eh talker , in the {disfmarker} in the meeting , um eh she {disfmarker} she nnn includes information about the zone where eh there are eh {disfmarker} there is an overlapping zone . But eh there isn't any {disfmarker} any mark , time {disfmarker} temporal mark , to {disfmarker} to c eh {disfmarker} to mmm {vocalsound} {disfmarker} e - heh , to label {comment} the beginning and the end of the {disfmarker} of the\n",
      "Professor E: Mm - hmm . OK . Right , so she is {disfmarker}\nPhD D: ta I 'm {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think eh we need this information to\n",
      "Professor E: Right . So the twelve {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} it took you twelve hours {disfmarker} of course this included maybe some {disfmarker} some time where you were learning about what {disfmarker} what you wanted to do , but {disfmarker} but uh , it took you something like twelve hours to mark the forty - five minutes , your\nGrad G: Twelve minutes .\nPhD D: Twelve minutes .\nProfessor E: s Twelve minutes !\nPhD D: Twelve minutes . Twelve .\nProfessor E: I thought you did forty - five minutes of {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: No , forty - five minutes is the {disfmarker} is the session , all the session .\nPostdoc B: Oh .\nProfessor E: Oh , you haven't done the whole session .\nPhD D: Yeah , all is the {vocalsound} the session .\nProfessor E: This is just twelve minutes .\nPhD D: Tw - twelve hours of work to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to segment eh and label eh twelve minutes from a session of part {disfmarker} of f\n",
      "Professor E: Oh . So {comment} let me back up again . So the {disfmarker} when you said there were three hundred speaker overlaps ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: that 's in twelve minutes ?\nPhD D: No no no . I {disfmarker} I consider all the {disfmarker} all the session because eh I {disfmarker} I count the nnn {disfmarker} the nnn {disfmarker} the overlappings marked by {disfmarker} by Jane ,\nProfessor E: Oh , OK .\nPostdoc B: Oh , I see .\n",
      "PhD D: in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the {pause} fin in {disfmarker} in the {pause} forty - five minutes .\nProfessor E: OK . So it 's three hundred in forty - five minutes , but you have {disfmarker} you have time uh , uh marked {disfmarker} twelve minute {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the um overlaps in twelve minutes of it .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Got it .\n",
      "PhD F: So , can I ask {disfmarker} {vocalsound} can I ask whether you found {disfmarker} uh , you know , how accurate uh Jane 's uh uh labels were as far as {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Well , not just the overlaps , everything .\nPhD F: you know , did she miss some overlaps ? or did she n ?\n",
      "PhD D: But , by {disfmarker} by the moment , I {disfmarker} I don't compare , my {disfmarker} my temporal mark with eh Jane , but eh I {disfmarker} I want to do it . Because eh eh i per perhaps I have eh errors in the {disfmarker} in the marks , I {disfmarker} and if I {disfmarker} I compare with eh Jane , it 's probably I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I can correct and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} to get eh eh a more accurately eh eh transcription in the file .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Well , also Jane {disfmarker} Jane was doing word level .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad G: So we weren't concerned with {comment} exactly when an overlap started and stopped .\nPhD F: Right . Right .\nPhD C: Well , not only a word level , but actually\nPhD D: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I 'm expect I 'm not expecting {disfmarker}\nPhD D: No , it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: I mean , you didn't need to show the exact point of interruption , you just were showing at the level of the phrase or the level of the speech spurt , or {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: Yep .\nPostdoc B: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Well , yeah , b yeah , I would say time bin . So my {disfmarker} my goal is to get words with reference to a time bin , {pause} beginning and end point .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: And {disfmarker} and sometimes , you know , it was like you could have an overlap where someone said something in the middle ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: but , yeah , w it just wasn't important for our purposes to have it that {disfmarker} i disrupt that unit in order to have , you know , a the words in the order in which they were spoken , it would have {disfmarker} it would have been hard with the interface that we have .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Now , my {disfmarker} a Adam 's working on a of course , on a revised overlapping interface ,\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think {disfmarker} It 's {disfmarker} it 's a good eh work ,\nPostdoc B: but {disfmarker}\nPhD D: but eh I think we need eh eh more information .\nPhD F: No , of course .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nPhD F: I expect you to find more overlaps than {disfmarker} than Jane\n",
      "Grad G: Always need more for {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nPhD D: No , no . I {disfmarker} I have to go to {disfmarker}\nPhD F: because you 're looking at it at a much more detailed level .\nPhD D: I want eh {disfmarker} I wanted to eh compare the {disfmarker} the transcription .\nProfessor E: I have {disfmarker}\nGrad G: But if it takes sixty to one {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: Well , I but I have a suggestion about that . Um , obviously this is very , very time - consuming , and you 're finding lots of things which I 'm sure are gonna be very interesting , but in the interests of making progress , uh might I s how {disfmarker} how would it affect your time if you only marked speaker overlaps ?\nPhD D: Only .\nProfessor E: Yes .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Do not mark any other events ,\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor E: but only mark speaker {disfmarker} Do you think that would speed it up quite a bit ?\n",
      "PhD D: OK . OK . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} I wanted to {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Do y do you think that would speed it up ? Uh , speed up your {disfmarker} your {disfmarker} your marking ?\nPhD D: nnn , I don't understand very .\nProfessor E: It took you a long time {pause} to mark twelve minutes .\nPhD D: Yeah . Oh , yeah , yeah .\nProfessor E: Now , my suggestion was for the other thirty - three {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD D: On - only to mark {disfmarker} only to mark overlapping zone , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah , and my question is , if you did that , if you followed my suggestion , would it take much less time ?\nPhD D: Oh , yeah . Sure .\nProfessor E: Yeah OK .\nPhD D: Yeah sure .\nProfessor E: Then I think it 's a good idea .\nPhD D: Sure sure .\nProfessor E: Then I think it 's a good idea , because it\n",
      "PhD D: Sure , because I {disfmarker} I need a lot of time to {disfmarker} to put the label or to do that . Yeah .\nProfessor E: Yeah , I mean , we we know that there 's noise .\nGrad G: And\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nProfessor E: There 's {disfmarker} there 's uh continual noise uh from fans and so forth , and there is uh more impulsive noise from uh taps and so forth\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: and {disfmarker} and something in between with paper rustling . We know that all that 's there and it 's a g worthwhile thing to study , but obviously it takes a lot of time to mark all of these things .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: Whereas th i I would think that uh you {disfmarker} we can study more or less as a distinct phenomenon the overlapping of people talking .\nPhD D: Uh - huh . OK . OK .\n",
      "Professor E: So . Then you can get the {disfmarker} Cuz you need {disfmarker} If it 's three hundred uh {disfmarker} i i it sounds like you probably only have fifty or sixty or seventy events right now that are really {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor E: And {disfmarker} and you need to have a lot more than that to have any kind of uh even visual sense of {disfmarker} of what 's going on , much less any kind of reasonable statistics .\nGrad G: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: Now , why do you need to mark speaker overlap by hand if you can infer it from the relative energy in the {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Well , that 's {disfmarker} That 's what I was gonna bring up .\nPhD C: I mean , you shouldn't need to do this p completely by hand ,\nProfessor E: Um , OK , yeah . So let 's back up because you weren't here for an earlier conversation .\nPhD C: right ? I 'm sorry .\n",
      "Professor E: So the idea was that what he was going to be doing was experimenting with different measures such as the increase in energy , such as the energy in the LPC residuals , such as {disfmarker} I mean there 's a bunch of things {disfmarker} I mean , increased energy is - is sort of an obvious one .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm . In the far - field mike .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD C: Oh , OK .\n",
      "Professor E: Um , and uh , it 's not obvious , I mean , you could {disfmarker} you could do the dumbest thing and get {disfmarker} get it ninety percent of the time . But when you start going past that and trying to do better , it 's not obvious what combination of features is gonna give you the {disfmarker} you know , the right detector . So the idea is to have some ground truth first . And so the i the idea of the manual marking was to say \" OK this , i you know , it 's {disfmarker} it 's really here \" .\n",
      "PhD A: But I think Liz is saying why not get it out of the transcripts ?\nPhD C: What I mean is {pause} get it from the close - talking mikes .\nProfessor E: Uh , yeah .\nPhD C: A or ge get a first pass from those ,\nProfessor E: We t we t w we t we talked about that .\nPhD C: and then go through sort of {disfmarker} It 'd be a lot faster probably to {disfmarker}\nPhD F: And you can {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah , that 's his , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we talked about that . s But so it 's a bootstrapping thing and the thing is ,\nPhD C: Yeah , I just {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: the idea was , i we i i we thought it would be useful for him to look at the data anyway , and {disfmarker} and then whatever he could mark would be helpful ,\nPhD C: Right .\n",
      "Professor E: and we could {disfmarker} Uh it 's a question of what you bootstrap from . You know , do you bootstrap from a simple measurement which is right most of the time and then you g do better , or do you bootstrap from some human being looking at it and then {disfmarker} then do your simple measurements , uh from the close - talking mike . I mean , even with the close - talking mike you 're not gonna get it right all the time .\nPhD C: Well , that 's what I wonder , because um {disfmarker} or how bad it is ,\nProfessor E: Well\n",
      "PhD C: be um , because that would be interesting\nGrad G: I 'm working on a program to do that , and {disfmarker}\nPhD C: especially because the bottleneck is the transcription . Right ? I mean , we 've got a lot more data than we have transcriptions for . We have the audio data , we have the close - talking mike ,\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: so I mean it seems like one kind of project that 's not perfect , but {disfmarker} um , that you can get the training data for pretty quickly is , you know , if you infer form the close - talking mikes where the on - off points are of speech ,\nProfessor E: Right , we discussed that .\nPhD C: you know , how can we detect that from a far - field ?\nGrad G: And {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Oh .\nGrad G: I 've {disfmarker} I 've written a program to do that ,\n",
      "PhD C: OK , I 'm sorry I missed the {disfmarker}\nGrad G: and it , uh {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: It 's OK .\nGrad G: and {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} but it 's {disfmarker} it 's doing something very , very simple . It just takes a threshold , based on {disfmarker} on the volume ,\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\nPhD F: Or you can set the threshold low and then weed out the false alarms by hand .\nPhD C: Right , by hand . Yeah .\nPhD F: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: um , and then it does a median filter , and then it looks for runs . And , it seems to work , I 've {disfmarker} I 'm sort of fiddling with the parameters , to get it to actually generate something , and I haven't {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} what I 'm working on {disfmarker} was working on {disfmarker} was getting it to a form where we can import it into the user interface that we have , {pause} into Transcriber . And so {disfmarker} I told {disfmarker} I said it would take about a day . I 've worked on it for about half a day ,\n",
      "Grad H: I have to go .\nGrad G: so give me another half day and I we 'll have something we can play with .\nPhD C: OK .\nProfessor E: See , this is where we really need the Meeting Recorder query stuff to be working , because we 've had these meetings and we 've had this discussion about this , and I 'm sort of remembering a little bit about what we decided ,\nPhD C: Right . I 'm sorry . I just {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: but I couldn't remember all of it .\nPhD C: It\n",
      "Professor E: So , I think it was partly that , you know , give somebody a chance to actually look at the data and see what these are like , partly that we have e some ground truth to compare against , you know , when {disfmarker} when he {disfmarker} he gets his thing going ,\nGrad G: But {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: uh , and {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Well , it 's definitely good to have somebody look at it . I was just thinking as a way to speed up you know , the amount of {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: That was {disfmarker} that was exactly the notion that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that we discussed .\nPhD C: OK .\nGrad G: Thanks .\nPostdoc B: Another thing we discussed was um that {disfmarker}\nPhD C: It looks good .\nProfessor E: So .\nPhD C: I 'll be in touch . Thanks .\nProfessor E: S See ya . Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Was that um there m {pause} there was this already a script I believe uh that Dan had written , {comment} that uh handle bleedthrough , I mean cuz you have this {disfmarker} this close {disfmarker} you have contamination from other people who speak loudly .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah , and I haven't tried using that . It would probably help the program that I 'm doing to first feed it through that . It 's a cross - correlation filter . So I {disfmarker} I haven't tried that , but that {disfmarker} If {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it might be something {disfmarker} it might be a good way of cleaning it up a little .\nPostdoc B: So , some thought of maybe having {disfmarker} Yeah , having that be a preprocessor and then run it through yours .\nGrad G: Exactly . Yep .\n",
      "Professor E: But {disfmarker} but that 's a refinement\nPostdoc B: That 's what we were discussing .\nProfessor E: and I think we wanna see {disfmarker} try the simple thing first , cuz you add this complex thing up uh afterwards that does something good y y yo you sort of wanna see what the simple thing does first .\nGrad G: Yep .\n",
      "Professor E: But uh , having {disfmarker} having somebody have some experience , again , with {disfmarker} with uh {disfmarker} with marking it from a human standpoint , we 're {disfmarker} I mean , I don't expect Jose to {disfmarker} to do it for uh f fifty hours of {disfmarker} {comment} of speech , but I mean we {disfmarker} {comment} if uh {disfmarker} if he could speed up what he was doing by just getting the speaker overlaps so that we had it , say , for forty - five minutes , then at least we 'd have three hundred examples of it .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Sure . Sure .\nProfessor E: And when {disfmarker} when uh Adam was doing his automatic thing he could then compare to that and see what it was different .\nPhD C: Oh yeah , definitely .\nPhD A: You know , I did {disfmarker} I did uh something almost identical to this at one of my previous jobs , and it works pretty well . I mean , i almost exactly what you described , an energy detector with a median filter , you look for runs . And uh , you know , you can {disfmarker}\nGrad G: It seemed like the right thing to do .\n",
      "PhD A: Yeah . I mean , you {disfmarker} you can get y I mean , you get them pretty close .\nGrad G: That was with zero literature search .\nPhD A: And so I think doing that to generate these possibilities and then going through and saying yes or no on them would be a quick way to {disfmarker} to do it .\nGrad G: That 's good validation .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Is this proprietary ?\nPhD A: Uh . {comment} No . No .\nGrad G: Yeah , do you have a patent on it ?\n",
      "PhD A: It was when I was working for the government .\nProfessor E: Oh , then everybody owns it . It 's the people .\nPostdoc B: Well , I mean , is this something that we could just co - opt , or is it {disfmarker} ?\nPhD A: Nah .\nPostdoc B: No . OK .\nProfessor E: Well , i i i he 's pretty close , anyway . I think {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah , he 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it doesn't take a long time .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Right . I just thought if it was tried and true , then {disfmarker} {comment} and he 's gone through additional levels of {disfmarker} of development .\nGrad G: Just output . Although if you {disfmarker} if you have some parameters like what 's a good window size for the median filter {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh ! {comment} I have to remember . I 'll think about it , and try to remember .\nPhD F: And it might be different for government people .\nGrad G: That 's alright .\nProfessor E: Yeah , good enough for government work , as they say .\n",
      "PhD C: They {disfmarker} they {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Di - dif different {disfmarker} different bandwidth .\nPhD F: They\nGrad G: I was doing pretty short , you know , tenth of a second , {comment} sorts of numbers .\nPhD F: OK .\nProfessor E: Uh , I don't know , it {disfmarker} if {disfmarker} if we want to uh {disfmarker} So , uh , maybe we should move on to other {disfmarker} other things in limited time .\n",
      "Postdoc B: Can I ask one question about his statistics ? So {disfmarker} so in the tw twelve minutes , um , if we took three hundred and divided it by four , which is about the length of twelve minutes , i Um , I 'd expect like there should be seventy - five overlaps .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: Did you find uh more than seventy - five overlaps in that period , or {disfmarker} ?\nPhD D: More than ?\nPostdoc B: More than {disfmarker} How many overlaps in your twelve minutes ?\n",
      "PhD D: How many ? Eh , not @ @ I Onl - only I {disfmarker} I transcribe eh only twelve minutes from the\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD D: but eh I {disfmarker} I don't co eh {disfmarker} I don't count eh the {disfmarker} the overlap .\nPostdoc B: The overlaps . OK .\n",
      "PhD D: I consider I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the nnn {disfmarker} The {disfmarker} the three hundred is eh considered only you {disfmarker} your transcription . I have to {disfmarker} {vocalsound} to finish transcribing . So .\nGrad G: I b I bet they 're more , because the beginning of the meeting had a lot more overlaps than {disfmarker} than sort of the middle .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Middle or end .\nPostdoc B: I 'm not sure .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: Because i we 're {disfmarker} we 're dealing with the {disfmarker} Uh , in the early meetings , we 're recording while we 're saying who 's talking on what microphone , {comment} and things like that ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: and that seems to be a lot of overlap .\nPostdoc B: I think it 's an empirical question .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I think we could find that out .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad G: Yep .\nPostdoc B: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not sure that the beginning had more .\n",
      "Professor E: So {disfmarker} so I was gonna ask , I guess about any {disfmarker} any other things that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} that either of you wanted to talk about , especially since Andreas is leaving in five minutes , that {disfmarker} that you wanna go with .\n",
      "PhD C: Can I just ask about the data , like very straightforward question is where we are on the amount of data and the amount of transcribed data , just cuz I 'm {disfmarker} I wanted to get a feel for that to sort of be able to know what {disfmarker} what can be done first and like how many meetings are we recording\nProfessor E: Right so there 's this {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} There 's this forty - five minute piece that Jane transcribed .\nPhD C: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: That piece was then uh sent to IBM so they could transcribe so we have some comparison point . Then there 's s a larger piece that 's been recorded and uh put on CD - ROM and sent uh to IBM . Right ? And then we don't know .\nPhD C: How many meetings is that ? Like {disfmarker} how many {disfmarker}\nGrad G: What 's that ?\nProfessor E: That was about ten hours , and there was about {disfmarker}\nPhD C: t ten {disfmarker} It 's like ten meetings or something ? Uh - huh .\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah , something like that . And then {disfmarker} then we\nPhD A: Ten meetings that have been sent to IBM ?\nPhD C: And {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad G: Well , I haven't sent them yet because I was having this problem with the {pause} missing files .\nProfessor E: Oh . Oh , that 's right , that had {disfmarker} those have not been sent .\nPhD A: H how many total have we recorded now , altogether ?\nProfessor E: We 're saying about {pause} twelve hours .\n",
      "Grad G: About twelve {pause} by now . Twelve or thirteen .\nPhD C: Uh - huh . And we 're recording only this meeting , like continuously we 're only recording this one now ? or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor E: No . No , so the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} that 's the {disfmarker} that 's the biggest one {disfmarker} uh , chunk so far ,\nGrad G: Nope .\nPhD A: It was the morning one .\nPhD C: OK .\nProfessor E: but there 's at least one meeting recorded of uh the uh uh natural language guys .\n",
      "Grad G: Jerry .\nPhD C: Do they meet every week ,\nProfessor E: And then there {disfmarker}\nPhD C: or every {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Uh , they do . w w And we talked to them about recording some more and we 're going to , uh , we 've started having a morning meeting , today uh i starting a w a week or two ago , on the uh front - end issues , and we 're recording those , uh there 's a network services and applications group here who 's agreed to have their meetings recorded ,\nPhD C: Great .\n",
      "Professor E: and we 're gonna start recording them . They 're {disfmarker} They meet on Tuesdays . We 're gonna start recording them next week . So actually , we 're gonna h start having a {disfmarker} a pretty significant chunk and so , you know , {vocalsound} Adam 's sort of struggling with trying to get things to be less buggy , and come up quicker when they do crash and stuff {disfmarker} things like that , now that uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the things are starting to happen . So right now , yeah , I th I 'd say the data is predominantly meeting meetings , but there are scattered other meetings in it and that {disfmarker} that amount is gonna grow uh so that the meeting meetings will probably ultimately {disfmarker} i if we 're {disfmarker} if we collect fifty or sixty hours , the meeting meetings it will probably be , you know , twenty or thirty percent of it , not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker} not eighty or ninety . But .\n",
      "PhD C: So there 's probably {disfmarker} there 's three to four a week ,\nGrad G: That 's what we 're aiming for .\nPhD C: that we 're aiming for .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD C: And they 're each about an hour or something .\nProfessor E: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad G: Although {disfmarker} Yeah . We 'll find out tomorrow whether we can really do this or not .\nPhD C: So {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah and th the {disfmarker} the other thing is I 'm not pos I 'm sort of thinking as we 've been through this a few times , that I really don't know {disfmarker} maybe you wanna do it once for the novelty , but I don't know if in general we wanna have meetings that we record from outside this group do the digits .\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor E: Because it 's just an added bunch of weird stuff .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor E: And , you know , we {disfmarker} we h we 're highly motivated . Uh in fact , the morning group is really motivated cuz they 're working on connected digits , so it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Actually that 's something I wanted to ask , is I have a bunch of scripts to help with the transcription of the digits .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nGrad G: We don't have to hand - transcribe the digits because we 're reading them and I have those .\nPhD C: Right .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad G: And so I have some scripts that let you very quickly extract the sections of each utterance . But I haven't been ru I haven't been doing that . Um , if I did that , is someone gonna be working on it ?\nProfessor E: Uh , yeah , I {disfmarker} I think definitely s so Absolutely .\nGrad G: I mean , is it something of interest ?\nProfessor E: Yeah , whoever we have working on the acoustics for the Meeting Recorder are gonna start with that .\n",
      "Grad G: OK . I mean , I I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm interested in it , I just don't have time to do it now .\nPhD F: I was {disfmarker} these meetings {disfmarker} I 'm sure someone thought of this , but these {disfmarker} this uh reading of the numbers would be extremely helpful to do um adaptation .\nGrad G: So\nPhD F: Um .\nGrad G: Yep . Yep .\nPhD C: Actually I have o\nGrad G: I {disfmarker} I would really like someone to do adaptation .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad G: So if we got someone interested in that , I think it would be great for Meeting Recorder .\nProfessor E: Well {disfmarker} I mean , one of the things I wanted to do , uh , that I I talked to {disfmarker} to Don about , is one of the possible things he could do or m also , we could have someone else do it , is to do block echo cancellation ,\nGrad G: Since it 's the same people over and over .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: to try to get rid of some of the effects of the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the far - field effects . Um , I mean we have {disfmarker} the party line has been that echo cancellation is not the right way to handle the situation\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: because people move around , and uh , if {disfmarker} if it 's {disfmarker} if it 's uh not a simple echo , like a cross - talk kind of echo , but it 's actually room acoustics , it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} it 's {disfmarker} you can't really do inversion ,\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: and even echo cancellation is going to uh be something {disfmarker} It may {disfmarker} you {disfmarker} Someone may be moving enough that you are not able to adapt quickly and so the tack that we 've taken is more \" lets come up with feature approaches and multi - stream approaches and so forth , that will be robust to it for the recognizer and not try to create a clean signal \" .\nPhD F: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , that 's the party line . But it occurred to me a few months ago that uh party lines are always , you know , sort of dangerous . It 's good {disfmarker} {vocalsound} good to sort of test them , actually . And so we haven't had anybody try to do a good serious job on echo cancellation and we should know how well that can do . So that 's something I 'd like somebody to do at some point , just take these digits , take the far - field mike signal , and the close uh mike signal , and apply really good echo cancellation . Um , there was a {disfmarker} have been some nice talks recently by {disfmarker} by Lucent on {disfmarker} on their b\n",
      "PhD F: Hmm .\nProfessor E: the block echo cancellation particularly appealed to me , uh you know , trying and change it sample by sample , but you have some reasonable sized blocks . {comment} And um , you know , th\nPhD A: W what is the um {disfmarker} the artifact you try to {disfmarker} you 're trying to get rid of when you do that ?\nPhD F: Ciao .\n",
      "Professor E: Uh so it 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} you have a {disfmarker} a direct uh {disfmarker} Uh , what 's the difference in {disfmarker} If you were trying to construct a linear filter , that would um {disfmarker}\nPhD F: I 'm signing off .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . that would subtract off {comment} the um uh parts of the signal that were the aspects of the signal that were different between the close - talk and the distant . You know , so {disfmarker} so uh um I guess in most echo cancellation {disfmarker} Yeah , so you {disfmarker} Given that um {disfmarker} Yeah , so you 're trying to {disfmarker} So you 'd {disfmarker} There 's a {disfmarker} a distance between the close and the distant mikes so there 's a time delay there , and after the time delay , there 's these various reflections . And if you figure out well what 's the {disfmarker} there 's a {disfmarker} a least squares algorithm that adjusts itself {disfmarker} adjusts the weight so that you try to subtract {disfmarker} essentially to subtract off uh different uh {disfmarker} different reflections . Right ? So let 's take the simple case where you just had {disfmarker} you had some uh some delay in a satellite connection or something and then there 's a {disfmarker} there 's an echo . It comes back . And you want to adjust this filter so that it will maximally reduce the effect of this echo .\n",
      "PhD A: So that would mean like if you were listening to the data that was recorded on one of those . Uh , just the raw data , you would {disfmarker} you might hear kind of an echo ? And {disfmarker} and then this {disfmarker} noise cancellation would get\n",
      "Professor E: Well , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm saying {disfmarker} That 's a simplified version of what 's really happening . {comment} What 's really happening is {disfmarker} Well , when I 'm talking to you right now , you 're getting the direct sound from my speech , but you 're also getting , uh , the indirect sound that 's bounced around the room a number of times . OK ? So now , if you um try to r you {disfmarker} To completely remove the effect of that is sort of impractical for a number of technical reasons , but I {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} not to try to completely remove it , that is , invert the {disfmarker} the room response , but just to try to uh uh eliminate some of the {disfmarker} the effect of some of the echos . Um , a number of people have done this so that , say , if you 're talking to a speakerphone , uh it makes it more like it would be , if you were talking right up to it . So this is sort of the st the straight - forward approach . You say I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I want to use this uh {disfmarker} this item but I want to subtract off various kinds of echos . So you construct a filter , and you have this {disfmarker} this filtered version uh of the speech um gets uh uh {disfmarker} gets subtracted off from the original speech . Then you try to {disfmarker} you try to minimize the energy in some sense . And so um {disfmarker} uh with some constraints .\n",
      "PhD A: Kind of a clean up thing , that {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: It 's a clean up thing . Right .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor E: So , echo cancelling is {disfmarker} is , you know , commonly done in telephony , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it 's sort of the obvious thing to do in this situation if you {disfmarker} if , you know , you 're gonna be talking some distance from a mike .\n",
      "PhD A: When uh , I would have meetings with the folks in Cambridge when I was at BBN over the phone , they had a um {disfmarker} some kind of a special speaker phone and when they would first connect me , it would come on and we 'd hear all this noise . And then it was uh {disfmarker} And then it would come on and it was very clear ,\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD A: you know .\n",
      "Professor E: Right . So it 's taking samples , it 's doing adaptation , it 's adjusting weights , and then it 's getting the sum . So um , uh anyway that 's {disfmarker} that 's kind of a reasonable thing that I 'd like to have somebody try {disfmarker} somebody look {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and the digits would be a reasonable thing to do that with . I think that 'd be enough data {disfmarker} plenty of data to do that with , and i for that sort of task you wouldn't care whether it was uh large vocabulary speech or anything . Uh . {vocalsound} Um\n",
      "Postdoc B: Is Brian Kingsbury 's work related to that , or is it a different type of reverberation ?\n",
      "Professor E: Brian 's {comment} Kingsbury 's work is an example of what we did f f from the opposite dogma . Right ? Which is what I was calling the \" party line \" , which is that uh doing that sort of thing is not really what we want . We want something more flexible , uh i i where people might change their position , and there might be , you know {disfmarker} There 's also um oh yeah , noise . So the echo cancellation does not really allow for noise . It 's if you have a clean situation but you just have some delays , Then we 'll figure out the right {disfmarker} the right set of weights for your taps for your filter in order to produce the effect of those {disfmarker} those echos . But um if there 's noise , then the very signal that it 's looking at is corrupted so that it 's decision about what the right {disfmarker} you know , right {disfmarker} right uh {disfmarker} delays are {disfmarker} is , uh {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} right delayed signal is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} uh is incorrect . And so , in a noisy situation , um , also in a {disfmarker} in a situation that 's very reverberant {disfmarker} {comment} with long reverberation times {comment} and really long delays , it 's {disfmarker} it 's sort of typically impractical . So for those kind of reasons , and also a {disfmarker} a c a complete inversion , if you actually {disfmarker} I mentioned that it 's kind of hard to really do the inversion of the room acoustics . Um , that 's difficult because um often times the {disfmarker} the um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the system transfer function is such that when it 's inverted you get something that 's unstable , and so , if you {disfmarker} you do your estimate of what the system is , and then you try to invert it , you get a filter that actually uh , you know , rings , and {disfmarker} and uh goes to infinity . So it 's {disfmarker} so there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's that sort of technical reason , and the fact that things move , and there 's air currents {disfmarker} I mean there 's all sorts of {disfmarker} all sorts of reasons why it 's not really practical . So for all those kinds of reasons , uh we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we sort of um , concluded we didn't want to in do inversion , and we 're even pretty skeptical of echo cancellation , which isn't really inversion , and um we decided to do this approach of taking {disfmarker} uh , just picking uh features , which were {disfmarker} uh will give you more {disfmarker} something that was more stable , in the presence of , or absence of , room reverberation , and that 's what Brian was trying to do . So , um , let me just say a couple things that I was {disfmarker} I was gonna bring up . Uh . Let 's see . I guess you {disfmarker} you actually already said this thing about the uh {disfmarker} about the consent forms , which was that we now don't have to {disfmarker} So this was the human subjects folks who said this , {comment} or that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "Postdoc B: The a apparently {disfmarker} I mean , we 're gonna do a revised form , of course . Um but once a person has signed it once , then that 's valid for a certain number of meetings . She wanted me to actually estimate how many meetings and put that on the consent form . I told her that would be a little bit difficult to say . So I think from a s practical standpoint , maybe we could have them do it once every ten meetings , or something . It won't be that many people who do it {pause} that often , but um just , you know , so long as they don't forget that they 've done it , I guess .\n",
      "Professor E: OK . Um , back on the data thing , so there 's this sort of one hour , ten hour , a hundred hour sort of thing that {disfmarker} that we have . We have {disfmarker} we have an hour uh that {disfmarker} that is transcribed , we have {disfmarker} we have twelve hours that 's recorded but not transcribed , and at the rate we 're going , uh by the end of the semester we 'll have , I don't know , forty or fifty or something , if we {disfmarker} if this really uh {disfmarker} Well , do we have that much ?\n",
      "PhD C: Not really . It 's three to four per week .\nProfessor E: Let 's see , we have {disfmarker}\nPhD C: So that 's what {disfmarker} You know , that {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: uh eight weeks , uh is {disfmarker}\nPhD C: So that 's not a lot of hours .\nProfessor E: Eight weeks times three hours is twenty - four , so that 's {disfmarker} Yeah , so like thirty {disfmarker} thirty hours ?\nPhD A: Three {disfmarker} Three hours .\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . I mean , is there {disfmarker} I know this sounds {pause} tough but we 've got the room set up . Um I was starting to think of some projects where you would use well , similar to what we talked about with uh energy detection on the close - talking mikes . There are a number of interesting questions that you can ask about how interactions happen in a meeting , that don't require any transcription . So what are the patterns , the energy patterns over the meeting ? And I 'm really interested in this {vocalsound} but we don't have a whole lot of data . So I was thinking , you know , we 've got the room set up and you can always think of , also for political reasons , if ICSI collected you know , two hundred hours , that looks different than forty hours , even if we don't transcribe it ourselves ,\n",
      "Professor E: But I don't think we 're gonna stop at the end of this semester .\nPhD C: so {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Right ? So , I th I think that if we are able to keep that up for a few months , we are gonna have more like a hundred hours .\n",
      "PhD C: I mean , is there {disfmarker} Are there any other meetings here that we can record , especially meetings that have some kind of conflict in them {comment} or some kind of deci I mean , that are less well {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} uh , that have some more emotional aspects to them , or strong {disfmarker}\nGrad G: We had some good ones earlier .\nPhD C: There 's laughter , um I 'm talking more about strong differences of opinion meetings , maybe with manager types , or {disfmarker}\nGrad G: I think it 's hard to record those .\n",
      "PhD C: To be allowed to record them ?\nPostdoc B: It 's also likely that people will cancel out afterwards .\nPhD C: OK .\nProfessor E: Yeah , people will get {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: But I {disfmarker} but I wanted to raise the KPFA idea .\nPhD C: OK . Well , if there is , anyway .\nProfessor E: Yeah , I was gonna mention that .\nGrad G: Oh , that 's a good idea . That 's {disfmarker} That would be a good match .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . So {disfmarker} Yeah . So I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} uh , I {disfmarker} I 'd mentioned to Adam , and {disfmarker} that was another thing I was gonna talk {disfmarker} uh , mention to them before {disfmarker} {comment} that uh there 's uh {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} it oc it occurred to me that we might be able to get some additional data by talking to uh acquaintances in local broadcast media . Because , you know , we had talked before about the problem about using found data , {comment} that {disfmarker} that uh it 's just set up however they have it set up and we don't have any say about it and it 's typically one microphone , in a , uh , uh {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so it doesn't really give us the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the uh characteristics we want . Um and so I do think we 're gonna continue recording here and record what we can . But um , it did occur to me that we could go to friends in broadcast media and say \" hey you have this panel show , {pause} or this {disfmarker} you know , this discussion show , and um can you record multi - channel ? \" And uh they may be willing to record it uh with {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: With lapel mikes or something ?\nProfessor E: Well , they probably already use lapel , but they might be able to have it {disfmarker} it wouldn't be that weird for them to have another mike that was somewhat distant .\nPhD C: Right .\nProfessor E: It wouldn't be exactly this setup , but it would be that sort of thing , and what we were gonna get from UW , you know , assuming they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they start recording , isn't {disfmarker} als also is not going to be this exact setup .\n",
      "PhD C: Right . No , I think that 'd be great , if we can get more data .\nProfessor E: So , {comment} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was thinking of looking into that . the other thing that occurred to me after we had that discussion , in fact , is that it 's even possible , since of course , many radio shows are not live , {comment} uh that we could invite them to have like some of their {disfmarker} {comment} record some of their shows here .\nPostdoc B: Wow !\n",
      "PhD C: Well {disfmarker} Or {disfmarker} The thing is , they 're not as averse to wearing one of these head - mount I mean , they 're on the radio ,\nGrad G: Right , as we are .\nPhD C: right ? So . {comment} Um , I think that 'd be fantastic\nProfessor E: Right .\nPhD C: cuz those kinds of panels and {disfmarker} Those have interesting\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: Th - that 's an {disfmarker} a side of style {disfmarker} a style that we 're not collecting here , so it 'd be great .\n",
      "Professor E: And {disfmarker} and the {disfmarker} I mean , the other side to it was the {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} which is where we were coming from {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll talk to you more about it later {comment} is that {disfmarker} is that there 's {disfmarker} there 's uh the radio stations and television stations already have stuff worked out presumably , uh related to , you know , legal issues and {disfmarker} and permissions and all that . I mean , they already do what they do {disfmarker} do whatever they do . So it 's {disfmarker} uh , it 's {disfmarker} So it 's {disfmarker} so it 's another source . So I think it 's something we should look into , you know , we 'll collect what we collect here hopefully they will collect more at UW also and um {disfmarker} and maybe we have this other source . But yeah I think that it 's not unreasonable to aim at getting , you know , significantly in excess of a hundred hours . I mean , that was sort of our goal . The thing was , I was hoping that we could {disfmarker} @ @ in the {disfmarker} under this controlled situation we could at least collect , you know , thirty to fifty hours . And at the rate we 're going we 'll get pretty close to that I think this semester . And if we continue to collect some next semester , I think we should , uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: Right . Yeah I was mostly trying to think , \" OK , if you start a project , within say a month , you know , how much data do you have to work with . And you {disfmarker} you wanna s you wanna sort of fr freeze your {disfmarker} your data for awhile so um right now {disfmarker} and we don't have the transcripts back yet from IBM right ? Do {disfmarker} Oh , do we now ?\nProfessor E: Well , we don't even have it for this f you know , forty - five minutes , that was {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: So um , not complaining , I was just trying to think , you know , what kinds of projects can you do now versus uh six months from now\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD C: and they 're pretty different , because\nProfessor E: Yeah . So I was thinking right now it 's sort of this exploratory stuff where you {disfmarker} you look at the data , you use some primitive measures and get a feeling for what the scatter plots look like ,\nGrad G: Right .\nPhD C: um {disfmarker} Right . Right , right .\n",
      "Professor E: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and uh {disfmarker} and meanwhile we collect , and it 's more like yeah , three months from now , or six months from now you can {disfmarker} you can do a lot of other things .\nPhD C: Cuz I 'm not actually sure , just logistically that I can spend {disfmarker} you know , I don't wanna charge the time that I have on the project too early , before there 's enough data to make good use of the time . And that 's {disfmarker} and especially with the student\nGrad G: Right .\n",
      "PhD C: uh for instance this guy who seems {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPhD C: Uh anyway , I shouldn't say too much , but um if someone came that was great and wanted to do some real work and they have to end by the end of this school year in the spring , how much data will I have to work with , with that person . And so it 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: i Yeah , so I would think , exploratory things now . Uh , three months from now {disfmarker} Um , I mean the transcriptions I think are a bit of an unknown cuz we haven't gotten those back yet as far as the timing , but I think as far as the collection , it doesn't seem to me l like , uh , unreasonable to say that uh in January , you know , ro roughly uh {disfmarker} which is roughly three months from now , we should have at least something like , you know , twenty - five , thirty hours .\nPhD C: And we just don't know about the transcription part of that ,\n",
      "Professor E: So that 's {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: Yeah , we need to {disfmarker} I think that there 's a possibility that the transcript will need to be adjusted afterwards ,\nPhD C: so . I mean , it {disfmarker}\nPostdoc B: and uh es especially since these people won't be uh used to dealing with multi - channel uh transcriptions .\nPhD C: Right .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc B: So I think that we 'll need to adjust some {disfmarker} And also if we wanna add things like um , well , more refined coding of overlaps , then definitely I think we should count on having an extra pass through . I wanted to ask another a a aspect of the data collection . There 'd be no reason why a person couldn't get together several uh , you know , friends , and come and argue about a topic if they wanted to , right ?\n",
      "Professor E: If they really have something they wanna talk about as opposed to something @ @ {disfmarker} I mean , what we 're trying to stay away from was artificial constructions , but I think if it 's a real {disfmarker} Why not ? Yeah .\nPhD C: I mean , I 'm thinking , politically {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Stage some political debates .\nPostdoc B: You could do this ,\nPhD C: Well yeah ,\nPostdoc B: you know . You could .\n",
      "PhD C: or just if you 're {disfmarker} if you ha If there are meetings here that happen that we can record even if we don't {pause} um have them do the digits , {comment} or maybe have them do a shorter {pause} digit thing {comment} like if it was , you know , uh , one string of digits , or something , they 'd probably be willing to do .\nGrad G: We don't have to do the digits at all if we don't want to .\n",
      "PhD C: Then , having the data is very valuable , cuz I think it 's um politically better for us to say we have this many hours of audio data , especially with the ITR , if we put in a proposal on it . It 'll just look like ICSI 's collected a lot more audio data . Um , whether it 's transcribed or not um , is another issue , but there 's {disfmarker} there are research questions you can answer without the transcriptions , or at least that you can start to answer .\nPostdoc B: It seems like you could hold some meetings .\nGrad G: Yep .\n",
      "Postdoc B: You know , you and maybe Adam ?\nPhD C: So .\nPostdoc B: You {disfmarker} you could {disfmarker} you could maybe hold some additional meetings , if you wanted .\n",
      "PhD A: Would it help at all {disfmarker} I mean , we 're already talking about sort of two levels of detail in meetings . One is uh um without doing the digits {disfmarker} Or , I guess the full - blown one is where you do the digits , and everything , and then talk about doing it without digits , what if we had another level , just to collect data , which is without the headsets and we just did the table - mounted stuff .\nPhD C: Need the close - talking mikes .\nPhD A: You do , OK .\nPhD C: I mean , absolutely ,\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD C: yeah . I 'm really scared {disfmarker}\nGrad G: It seems like it 's a big part of this corpus is to have the close - talking mikes .\nPhD A: I see , OK .\nPhD C: Um or at least , like , me personally ? I would {disfmarker} {comment} I {disfmarker} couldn't use that data .\nProfessor E: Yeah .\nPostdoc B: I agree . And Mari also ,\nPhD C: Um .\nPostdoc B: we had {disfmarker} This came up when she she was here . That 's important .\n",
      "PhD C: So it 's a great idea ,\nProfessor E: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} b By the {disfmarker} by the way , I don't think the transcriptions are actually , in the long run , such a big bottleneck .\nPhD C: and if it were true than I would just do that , but it 's not that bad {disfmarker} like the room is not the bottleneck , and we have enough time in the room , it 's getting the people to come in and put on the {disfmarker} and get the setup going .\n",
      "Professor E: I think the issue is just that we 're {disfmarker} we 're blazing that path . Right ? And {disfmarker} and um {disfmarker} d Do you have any idea when {disfmarker} when uh the {disfmarker} you 'll be able to send uh the ten hours to them ?\nGrad G: Well , I 've been burning two C Ds a day , which is about all I can do with the time I have .\nProfessor E: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad G: So it 'll be early next week .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah , OK . So early next week we send it to them , and then {disfmarker} then we check with them to see if they 've got it and we {disfmarker} we start , you know asking about the timing for it .\nGrad G: Yep .\nProfessor E: So I think once they get it sorted out about how they 're gonna do it , which I think they 're pretty well along on , cuz they were able to read the files and so on .\nGrad G: Yep .\nProfessor E: Right ?\nGrad G: Yeah , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Well {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah , who knows where they are .\nPhD A: Have they ever responded to you ?\nGrad G: Nope .\nProfessor E: Yeah , but {disfmarker} You know , so they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they have {disfmarker} you know , they 're volunteering their time and they have a lot of other things to do ,\nPhD C: What if {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Yeah , you {disfmarker} we can't complain .\n",
      "Professor E: right ? But they {disfmarker} But at any rate , they 'll {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think once they get that sorted out , they 're {disfmarker} they 're making cassettes there , then they 're handing it to someone who they {disfmarker} who 's {disfmarker} who is doing it , and uh I think it 's not going to be {disfmarker} I don't think it 's going to be that much more of a deal for them to do thirty hours then to do one hour , I think . It 's not going to be thirty\n",
      "Grad G: Yep . I think that 's probably true .\nPhD C: Really ? So it 's the amount of {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: It 's {disfmarker} it 's just getting it going .\nGrad G: It 's pipeline , pipeline issues .\nPhD C: Right . What about these lunch meetings {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Once the pipeline fills .\n",
      "PhD C: I mean , I don't know , if there 's any way without too much more overhead , even if we don't ship it right away to IBM even if we just collect it here for awhile , {comment} to record you know , two or three more meeting a week , just to have the data , even if they 're um not doing the digits , but they do wear the headphones ?\nProfessor E: But the lunch meetings are pretty much one person getting up and {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD C: No , I meant , um , sorry , the meetings where people eat their lunch downstairs , maybe they don't wanna be recorded , but {disfmarker}\nGrad G: Oh , and we 're just chatting ?\nPhD C: Just the ch the chatting .\nGrad G: Yeah , we have a lot of those .\nPhD C: I actually {disfmarker} I actually think that 's {pause} useful {pause} data , um {pause} the chatting ,\n",
      "Grad G: Yeah , the problem with that is I would {disfmarker} I think I would feel a little constrained to {disfmarker} You know ? Uh , some of the meetings {disfmarker}\nPhD C: but {disfmarker} OK . You don't wanna do it , cuz {disfmarker} OK .\nGrad G: You know , our \" soccer ball \" meeting ?\nPhD C: Alright .\nGrad G: I guess none of you were there for our soccer ball meeting .\n",
      "PhD C: Alright , {comment} so I 'll just throw it out there , if anyone knows of one more m or two more wee meetings per week that happen at ICSI , um that we could record , I think it would be worth it .\nGrad G: That was hilarious .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah . Well , we should also check with Mari again , because they {disfmarker} because they were really intending , you know , maybe just didn't happen , but they were really intending to be duplicating this in some level . So then that would double {pause} what we had . Uh . And there 's a lot of different meetings at UW uh {disfmarker} I mean really m a lot more {comment} than we have here right cuz we 're not right on campus ,\nGrad G: Right .\nProfessor E: so .\n",
      "PhD A: Is the uh , notion of recording any of Chuck 's meetings dead in the water , or is that still a possibility ?\n",
      "Professor E: Uh , {vocalsound} they seem to have some problems with it . We can {disfmarker} we can talk about that later . Um , but , again , Jerry is {disfmarker} Jerry 's open {disfmarker} So I mean , we have two speech meetings , one uh network meeting , uh Jerry was open to it but I {disfmarker} I s One of the things that I think is a little {disfmarker} a little bit of a limitation , there is a think when the people are not involved uh in our work , we probably can't do it every week . You know ? I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think that {disfmarker} that people are gonna feel uh {disfmarker} are gonna feel a little bit constrained . Now , it might get a little better if we don't have them do the digits all the time . And the {disfmarker} then {disfmarker} so then they can just really sort of try to {disfmarker} put the mikes on and then just charge in and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: Yep .\nPhD C: What if we give people {disfmarker} you know , we cater a lunch in exchange for them having their meeting here or something ?\nPostdoc B: Well , you know , I {disfmarker} I do think eating while you 're doing a meeting is going to be increasing the noise .\nPhD C: OK .\nPostdoc B: But I had another question , which is um , you know , in principle , w um , I know that you don't want artificial topics ,\nPhD C: Alright , alright , alright .\n",
      "Postdoc B: but um it does seem to me that we might be able to get subjects from campus to come down and do something that wouldn't be too artificial . I mean , we could {disfmarker} political discussions , or {disfmarker} or something or other ,\nPhD C: No , definitely .\n",
      "Postdoc B: and i you know , people who are {disfmarker} Because , you know , there 's also this constraint . We d it 's like , you know , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} uh goldibears {disfmarker} goldi goldilocks , it 's like you don't want meetings that are too large , but you don't want meetings that are too small . And um {disfmarker} a and it just seems like maybe we could exploit the subj human subject p p pool , in the positive sense of the word .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , even {disfmarker} I mean , coming down from campus is sort of a big thing , but what about\nPostdoc B: We could pay subjects .\nPhD A: or what about people in the {disfmarker} in the building ?\nPhD C: Yeah , I was thinking , there 's all these other peo\nPhD A: I mean , there 's the State of California downstairs , and {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah . I mean {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad G: I just really doubt that uh any of the State of California meetings would be recordable and then releasable to the general public .\nPostdoc B: Yeah .\nPhD A: Oh .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nGrad G: So I {disfmarker} I mean I talked with some people at the Haas Business School who are i who are interested in speech recognition\nPhD C: Alright , well .\n",
      "Grad G: and , they sort of hummed and hawed and said \" well maybe we could have meetings down here \" , but then I got email from them that said \" no , we decided we 're not really interested and we don't wanna come down and hold meetings . \" So , I think it 's gonna be a problem to get people regularly .\nPhD A: What about Joachim , maybe he can {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor E: But {disfmarker} but we c But I think , you know , we get some scattered things from this and that . And I {disfmarker} I d I do think that maybe we can get somewhere with the {disfmarker} with the radio .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor E: Uh i I have better contacts in radio than in television , but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: You could get a lot of lively discussions from those radio ones .\nPhD C: Well , and they 're already {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker} these things are already recorded ,\nGrad G: Yep .\n",
      "Professor E: Yeah .\nPhD C: we don't have to ask them to {disfmarker} even {disfmarker} and I 'm not sure wh how they record it , but they must record from individual {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: n Well {disfmarker} No , I 'm not talking about ones that are already recorded . I 'm talking about new ones\nPhD C: Why {disfmarker} why not ?\nProfessor E: because {disfmarker} because {disfmarker} because we would be asking them to do something different .\n",
      "PhD C: Well , we can find out . I know for instance Mark Liberman was interested uh in {disfmarker} in LDC getting {pause} data , uh , and {disfmarker}\nProfessor E: Right , that 's the found data idea .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor E: But what I 'm saying is uh if I talk to people that I know who do these th who produce these things we could ask them if they could record an extra channel , let 's say , of a distant mike .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor E: And u I think routinely they would not do this . So , since I 'm interested in the distant mike stuff , I wanna make sure that there is at least that somewhere\nPhD C: Right . Great . OK .  \nProfessor E: and uh {disfmarker} But if we ask them to do that they might be intrigued enough by the idea that they uh might be e e willing to {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} I might be able to talk them into it .\nPhD C: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Grad G: Um . We 're getting towards the end of our disk space , so we should think about trying to wrap up here .\nPhD C: That 's a good way to end a meeting .\nProfessor E: OK . Well I don't {disfmarker} why don't we {disfmarker} why d u why don't we uh uh turn them {disfmarker} turn\nGrad G: OK , leave {disfmarker} leave them on for a moment until I turn this off , cuz that 's when it crashed last time .\nPostdoc B: Oh . That 's good to know .\n"
    ],
    "length": 25973,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  },
  {
    "id": 80,
    "question": "Summarize the meeting",
    "answer": "The group discussed recording equipment and setup issues, recent developments in the transcription effort, other potential types of tagging to be assigned to transcribers, and the post-processing of waveforms. The discussion was largely focused on efforts to facilitate transcriptions, including the improvement of strategies for transcribing overlapping speech, and achieving greater uniformity in the type of equipment used during recordings and the manner in which recording devices are worn by speakers.",
    "docs": [
      "Professor B: Are we on ? We 're on . OK .\nPhD E: Is it on ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . OK ,\nPhD D: One , two {disfmarker} u OK .\nPhD A: Why is it so cold in here ?\nProfessor B: so , uh , we haven't sent around the agenda . So , i uh , any agenda items anybody has , wants to talk about , what 's going on ?\nPostdoc G: I c I could talk about the meeting .\nGrad H: Does everyone {disfmarker} has everyone met Don ?\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: It 's on ?\nPhD C: Now , yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Yeah ? OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad F: Hello .\nProfessor B: OK , agenda item one ,\nPhD D: We went {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Yeah .\nProfessor B: introduce Don . OK , we did that . Uh {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Well , I had a {disfmarker} just a quick question but I know there was discussion of it at a previous meeting that I missed , but just about the {disfmarker} the wish list item of getting good quality close - talking mikes on every speaker .\nProfessor B: OK , so let 's {disfmarker} let 's {disfmarker} So let 's just do agenda {pause} building right now . OK , so let 's talk about that a bit .\nPhD A: I mean , that was {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , @ @ tuss close talking mikes , better quality . OK , {vocalsound} uh , we can talk about that . You were gonna {disfmarker} starting to say something ?\nPostdoc G: Well , you {disfmarker} you , um , already know about the meeting {comment} that 's coming up and I don't know if {disfmarker} if this is appropriate for this . I don't know . I mean , maybe {disfmarker} maybe it 's something we should handle outside of the meeting .\nProfessor B: No , no , that 's OK .\nPhD E: What meeting ?\n",
      "Professor B: We can {disfmarker} so {disfmarker} we can ta so n NIST is {disfmarker} NIST folks are coming by next week\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: and so we can talk about that .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I think\nPhD E: Who 's coming ?\nProfessor B: Uh , uh , John Fiscus\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: and , uh , I think George Doddington will be around as well . Uh , OK , so we can talk about that . Uh , I guess just hear about how things are going with , uh , uh , the transcriptions . That 's right .\nPostdoc G: Sure . Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: That would sorta be an obvious thing to discuss . Um , An - anything else , uh , strike anybody ?\nPhD A: Uh , we started {pause} running recognition on {pause} one conversation but it 's the r {pause} isn't working yet . So , But if anyone has {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: OK .\nPhD E: Wha\nPhD A: uh , the main thing would be if anyone has , um , knowledge about ways to , uh , post - process the wave forms that would give us better recognition , that would be helpful to know about .\nProfessor B: Um ,\nGrad H: Dome yeah , it sounds like a topic of conversation .\nProfessor B: Yeah , so , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD E: What about , uh , is there anything new with the speech , nonspeech stuff ?\nPhD C: Yeah , we 're working more on it but , {vocalsound} it 's not finished .\n",
      "Professor B: OK . Alright , that seems like a {disfmarker} a good collection of things . And we 'll undoubtedly think of {pause} other things .\nPostdoc G: I had thought under my topic that I would mention the , uh , four items that I {disfmarker} I , uh , put out for being on the agenda f on that meeting , which includes like the pre - segmentation and the {disfmarker} and the developments in multitrans .\nProfessor B: Oh , under the NIST meeting .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , under the NIST thing .\nProfessor B: OK .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Alright , why don't we start off with this , u u I guess the order we brought them up seems fine .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Um , so , better quality close talking mikes . So the one issue was that the {disfmarker} the , uh , lapel mike , uh , isn't as good as you would like . And so , uh , it {disfmarker} it 'd be better if we had close talking mikes for everybody . Right ?\nPhD A: Ri - um ,\nProfessor B: Is that {disfmarker} is that basically the point ?\n",
      "PhD A: yeah , the {disfmarker} And actually in addition to that , that the {disfmarker} the close talking mikes are worn in such a way as to best capture the signal . And the reason here is just that for the people doing work not on microphones but on sort of like dialogue and so forth , uh {disfmarker} or and even on prosody , which Don is gonna be working on soon , it adds this extra , you know , vari variable for each speaker to {disfmarker} to deal with when the microphones aren't similar .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nGrad H: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: So {disfmarker} And I also talked to Mari this morning and she also had a strong preference for doing that . And in fact she said that that 's useful for them to know in starting to collect their data too .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm . Right , so one th\nGrad H: Well , so {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: uh , well one thing I was gonna say was that , um , i we could get more , uh , of the head mounted microphones even beyond the number of radio channels we have because I think whether it 's radio or wire is probably second - order . And the main thing is having the microphone close to you ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: u although , not too close .\nGrad H: Right , so , uh , actually the way Jose is wearing his is {disfmarker} is c {pause} correct .\nPhD D: Yeah . Is {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: The good way . So you want to {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: I it 's not cor it 's correct ?\nProfessor B: Is .\nGrad H: Yeah , th that 's good .\nProfessor B: Yes .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: So it 's towards the corner of your mouth so that breath sounds don't get on it .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad H: And then just sort of about , uh , a thumb or {disfmarker} a thumb and a half away from your {disfmarker} from your mouth .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah . Yeah . Uh , yeah .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD A: But we have more than one type of {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: How am I d\nPhD A: I mean , for instance , you 're {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad H: And this one isn't very adjustable ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: so this about as good as I can get\nPhD A: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: cuz it 's a fixed boom .\nPhD D: Is fixed . Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: But if we could actually standardize , you know , the {disfmarker} the microphones , uh , as much as possible that would be really helpful .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Well , I mean it doesn't hurt to have a few extra microphones around ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: so why don't we just go out and {disfmarker} and get an order of {disfmarker} of if this microphone seems OK to people , uh , I 'd just get a half dozen of these things .\nGrad H: Well the onl the only problem with that is right now , um , some of the Jimlets aren't working . The little {disfmarker} the boxes under the table .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad H: And so , w Uh , I 've only been able to find three jacks that are working .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD E: Can we get these , wireless ?\n",
      "Grad H: So {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: No , but my point is {disfmarker}\nPhD A: But y we could just record these signals separately and time align them with the start of the meeting .\nProfessor B: R r right {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I {disfmarker} I 'm not sure I 'm follow . Say that again ?\nProfessor B: Right now , we 've got , uh , two microphones in the room , that are not quote - unquote standard . So why don't we replace those {disfmarker}\nGrad H: OK , just two .\n",
      "Professor B: Well , however many we can plug in . You know , if we can plug in three , let 's plug in three .\nGrad H: OK .\nPhD D: Mm - yeah .\nProfessor B: Also what we 've talked before about getting another , uh , radio ,\nGrad H: Right .\nProfessor B: and so then that would be , you know , three {pause} more .\nGrad H: Right . OK .\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , uh {disfmarker} so we should go out to our full complement of whatever we can do , but have them all be the same mike . I think the original reason that it was done the other way was because , it w it was sort of an experimental thing and I don't think anybody knew whether people would rather have more variety or {disfmarker} {vocalsound} or , uh , more uniformity ,\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker} @ @ {comment} but uh , sounds {disfmarker} sounds fine .\nGrad H: Sounds like uniformity wins .\nPhD D: Right .\n",
      "PhD A: Well , for short term research it 's just {disfmarker} there 's just so much effort that would have to be done up front n uh ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad H: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD A: so {disfmarker} yeah , uniformity would be great .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD E: Is it because {disfmarker} You {disfmarker} you 're saying the {disfmarker} for dialogue purposes , so that means that the transcribers are having trouble with those mikes ? Is that what you mean ?\n",
      "PhD A: Well Jane would know more about the transcribers .\nPhD E: Or {disfmarker} ?\nPostdoc G: And that 's true . I mean , I {disfmarker} we did discuss this . Uh , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Yep . Couple times .\n",
      "Postdoc G: a couple times , so , um , yeah , the transcribers notice {disfmarker} And in fact there 're some where , um {disfmarker} ugh well , I mean there 's {disfmarker} it 's the double thing . It 's the equipment and also how it 's worn .\nPhD A: Right .\nPostdoc G: And he 's always {disfmarker} they always {disfmarker} they just rave about how wonderful Adam 's {disfmarker} Adam 's channel is .\nGrad H: What can I say .\nPostdoc G: And then ,\n",
      "PhD A: So does the recognizer .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad H: Oh , really ? Yeah , I 'm not surprised . I mean , \" Baaah ! \"\nPhD A: Even if {disfmarker} if you 're talking on someone else 's mike it 's still {pause} you w\nPostdoc G: Yeah , but I mean it 's not just that , it 's also you know you\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc G: It 's also like n no breathing , no {disfmarker} You know , it 's like it 's {disfmarker} it 's um ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: it 's really {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} it makes a big difference from the transcribers ' point of view\nGrad H: Yeah , it 's an advantage when you don't breath .\nPostdoc G: and also from the research s point of view .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: When we 're doing {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , I think that the point of doing the close talking mike is to get a good quality signal . We 're not doing research on close talking mikes .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad H: So we might as well get it as uniform as we can .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Now , this is locking the barn door after the horse was stolen . We do have thirty hours , of {disfmarker} of speech , which is done this way .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD A: That 's OK .\n",
      "Professor B: But {disfmarker} but , uh , yeah , for future ones we can get it a bit more uniform .\nPhD A: Great , great .\nGrad H: So I think just do a field trip at some point .\nProfessor B: Yeah , probably {disfmarker} yeah , to the store we talked about and that {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Yep .\nPostdoc G: And there was some talk about , uh , maybe the h headphones that are uncomfortable for people , to {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Yep . So , as {disfmarker} as I said , we 'll do a field trip and see if we can get all of the same mike that 's more comfortable than {disfmarker} than these things , which I think are horrible .\nPostdoc G: OK . Good .\nGrad H: So .\nPhD A: Great , thank you very much .\nPhD E: Especially for people with big heads .\nPhD A: It 's makes our job a lot easier .\nProfessor B: OK . OK .\nGrad H: And , you know , we 're researchers , so we all have big heads .\nProfessor B: OK .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Uh , OK , second item was the , uh , NIST visit , and what 's going on there .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Yeah . OK , so , um , uh , Jonathan Fiscus is coming on the second of February and I 've spoken with , uh , {pause} u u a lot of people here , not everyone . Um , and , um , he expressed an interest in seeing the room and in , um , seeing a demonstration of the modified multitrans , which I 'll mention in a second , and also , um , he was interested in the pre - segmentation and then he 's also interested in the transcription conventions .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And , um {disfmarker} So , um , it seems to me in terms of like , um , i i it wou You know , OK . So the room , it 's things like the audio and c and audi audio and acoustic {disfmarker} acoustic properties of the room and how it {disfmarker} how the recordings are done , and that kind of thing . And , um . OK , in terms of the multi - trans , well that {disfmarker} that 's being modified by Dave Gelbart to , uh , handle multi - channel recording .\n",
      "Grad H: Oh , I should 've {disfmarker} I was just thinking I should have invited him to this meeting . I forgot to do it .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , OK .\nGrad H: So .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yeah . Well that 's OK , I mean we 'll {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Sorry .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Yeah , and it 's t and it looks really great . He {disfmarker} he has a prototype . I {disfmarker} I , uh , @ @ {comment} didn't {disfmarker} didn't see it , uh , yesterday but I 'm going to see it today . And , uh , that 's {disfmarker} that will enable us to do {pause} nice um , tight time marking of the beginning and ending of overlapping segments . At present it 's not possible with limitations of {disfmarker} of the , uh , original {pause} design of the software . And um . So , I don't know . In terms of , like , pre - segmentation , that {disfmarker} that continues to be , um , a terrific asset to the {disfmarker} to the transcribers . Do you {disfmarker} I know that you 're al also supplementing it further . Do you want to mention something about that c Thilo , or {disfmarker} ?\n",
      "PhD C: Um , yeah . What {disfmarker} what I 'm doing right now is I 'm trying to include some information about which channel , uh , there 's some speech in . But that 's not working at the moment . I 'm just trying to do this by comparing energies , uh {disfmarker} normalizing energies and comparing energies of the different channels .\nPostdoc G: OK .\n",
      "PhD C: And so to {disfmarker} to give the transcribers some information in which channel there 's {disfmarker} there 's speech in addition to {disfmarker} to the thing we {disfmarker} we did now which is just , uh , speech - nonspeech detection on the mixed file . So I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm relying on {disfmarker} on the segmentation of the mixed file\nPostdoc G: This is good . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD C: but I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm trying to subdivide the speech portions into different portions if there is some activity in {disfmarker} in different channels .\nPostdoc G: Excellent , so this 'd be like w e providing also speaker ID {pause} potentially .\nPhD C: But {disfmarker} Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Wonderful . Wonderful .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , something I guess I didn't put in the list but , uh , on that , uh , same day later on in {disfmarker} or maybe it 's {disfmarker} No , actually {pause} it 's this week , uh , Dave Gelbart and I will be , uh , visiting with John Canny who i you know , is a CS professor ,\nPostdoc G: Oh .\nProfessor B: who 's interested in ar in array microphones .\nGrad H: HCC . Oh , he 's doing array mikes .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . And so we wanna see what commonality there is here . You know , maybe they 'd wanna stick an array mike here when we 're doing things\nPhD E: That would be cool .\nGrad H: Yeah , that would be neat .\nProfessor B: or {disfmarker} or maybe it 's {disfmarker} it 's not a specific array microphone they want\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: That would be really neat .\n",
      "Professor B: but they might wanna just , {disfmarker} uh , you know , you could imagine them taking the four signals from these {disfmarker} these table mikes and trying to do something with them {disfmarker} Um , I also had a discussion {disfmarker} So , w uh , we 'll be over {disfmarker} over there talking with him , um , after class on Friday . Um , we 'll let you know what {disfmarker} what goes with that . Also had a completely unrelated thing . I had a , uh , discussion today with , uh , Birger Kollmeier who 's a , uh , a German , uh , scientist who 's got a fair sized group {vocalsound} doing a range of things . It 's sort of auditory related , largely for hearing aids and so on . But {disfmarker} but , uh , he does stuff with auditory models and he 's very interested in directionality , and location , and {disfmarker} and , uh , head models and {pause} microphone things . And so , uh , he 's {disfmarker} he and possibly a student , there w there 's , uh , a student of his who gave a talk here last year , uh , may come here , uh , in the fall for , uh , sort of a five month , uh , sabbatical . So he might be around . Get him to give some talks and so on . But anyway , he might be interested in {pause} this stuff .\n",
      "PhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: That {disfmarker} that reminds me , I had a {disfmarker} a thought of an interesting project that somebody could try to do with {pause} the data from here , either using , you know , the {disfmarker} the mikes on the table or using signal energies from the head worn mikes ,\nPhD D: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: and that is to try to construct a map of where people were sitting ,\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nPhD E: uh , based on {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Well Dan {disfmarker} Dan had worked on that . Dan Ellis ,\nPhD D: Uh - huh .\nPhD E: Oh , did he ? Oh , that 's interesting .\nGrad H: yeah . So that {disfmarker} that 's the cross - correlation stuff , was {disfmarker} was doing b beam - forming .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: And so you could plot out who was sitting next to who\nProfessor B: A little bit ,\nPhD E: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: I mean , he didn't do a very extreme thing but just {disfmarker} it was just sort of\nPhD D: Yeah , yeah .\nGrad H: No , he did start on it .\nProfessor B: e e given that , the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the block of wood with the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the two mikes {comment} on either side ,\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: if I 'm speaking , or if you 're speaking , or someone over there is speaking , it {disfmarker} if you look at cross - correlation functions , you end up with a {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: if {disfmarker} if someone who was on the axis between the two is talking , then you {disfmarker} you get a big peak there . And if {disfmarker} if someone 's talking on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker} on , uh , one side or the other , it goes the other way .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And then , uh , it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it even looks different if th t if the two {disfmarker} two people on either side are talking than if one in the middle . It {disfmarker} it actually looks somewhat different , so .\nPhD E: Hmm . Well I was just thinking , you know , as I was sitting here next to Thilo that um , when he 's talking , my mike probably picks it up better than {pause} your guys 's mikes .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: So if you just looked at {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Oh , that 's another cl cue ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: yeah , {comment} looked at {comment} the energy on my mike and you could get an idea about who 's closest to who .\nGrad H: that 's true .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Right .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD E: And {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Or who talks the loudest .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , well you have to {disfmarker} the appropriate normalizations are tricky , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and are probably the key .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD A: You just search for Adam 's voice on each individual microphone , you pretty much know where everybody 's sitting .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . We 've switched positions recently so you can't {disfmarker} Anyway . OK . So those are just a little couple of news items .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Can I ask one thing ? Uh , so , um , Jonathan Fiscus expressed an interest in , uh , microphone arrays .\nProfessor B: Yes .\nPostdoc G: Um , is there {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker} b And I also want to say , his {disfmarker} he can't stay all day . He needs to uh , leave for {disfmarker} uh , from here to make a two forty - five flight\nGrad H: Oh , so just morning .\nPostdoc G: from {disfmarker} from Oakland .\nProfessor B: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc G: So it makes the scheduling a little bit tight but do you think that , um {disfmarker} that , uh , i John Canny should be involved in this somehow or not . I have no idea .\nProfessor B: Probably not but I {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll know better after I see him this Friday what {disfmarker} what kind of level he wants to get involved .\nPostdoc G: It 's premature . Fine . Good .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , he might be excited to and it might be very appropriate for him to , uh , or he might have no interest whatsoever . I {disfmarker} I just really don't know .\nPostdoc G: OK .\nGrad H: Is he involved in {disfmarker} Ach ! {comment} I 'm blanking on the name of the project . NIST has {disfmarker} has done a big meeting room {disfmarker} instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software . Is {disfmarker} is he the one working on that ?\nProfessor B: Well that 's what they 're starting up .\n",
      "Grad H: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah . No , I mean , that 's what all this is about . They {disfmarker} they haven't done it yet . They wanted to do it {disfmarker}\nGrad H: OK . I had read some papers that looked like they had already done some work .\nProfessor B: Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room but I don't {pause} think they {disfmarker} they haven't started recordings yet . They don't have the t the transcription standards . They don't have the {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Are they going to do video as well ?\n",
      "Grad H: Hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah . I think .\nPhD E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: I think they are .\nGrad H: Oh , cuz what {disfmarker} what I had read was , uh , they had a uh very large amount of software infrastructure for coordinating all this , both in terms of recording and also live room where you 're interacting {disfmarker} the participants are interacting with the computer , and with the video , and lots of other stuff .\nProfessor B: Well , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm not sure .\nGrad H: So .\n",
      "Professor B: All {disfmarker} all I know is that they 've been talking to me about a project that they 're going to start up recording people meet in meetings .\nGrad H: OK . Well {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: And , uh , it is related to ours . They were interested in ours . They wanted to get some uniformity with us , uh , about the transcriptions and so on .\nGrad H: Alright .\n",
      "Professor B: And one {disfmarker} one notable difference {disfmarker} u u actually I can't remember whether they were going to routinely collect video or not , but one {disfmarker} one , uh , difference from the audio side was that they are interested in using array mikes . So , um , I mean , I 'll just tell you the party line on that . The reason I didn't go for that here was because , uh , the focus , uh , both of my interest and of Adam 's interest was uh , in impromptu situations . And we 're not recording a bunch of impromptu situations but that 's because it 's different to get data for research than to actually apply it .\n",
      "PhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And so , uh , for scientific reasons we thought it was good to instrument this room as we wanted it . But the thing we ultimately wanted to aim at was a situation where you were talking with , uh , one or more other people i uh , in {disfmarker} in an p impromptu way , where you didn't {disfmarker} didn't actually know what the situation was going to be . And therefore it would not {disfmarker} it 'd be highly unlikely that room would be outfitted with {disfmarker} with some very carefully designed array of microphones . Um , so it was only for that reason . It was just , you know , yet another piece of research and it seemed like we had enough troubles just {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: So there 's no like portable array of mikes ?\nProfessor B: No . So there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} uh , there 's a whole range of things {disfmarker} there 's a whole array of things , {vocalsound} that people do on this .\nPhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , um , the , uh {disfmarker} the big arrays , uh , places , uh , like uh , Rutgers , and Brown , and other {disfmarker} other places , uh , they have , uh , big arrays with , I don't know , a hundred {disfmarker} hundred mikes or something .\nGrad H: Xerox .\nProfessor B: And so there 's a wall of mikes . And you get really , really good beam - forming {comment} with that sort of thing .\nPhD E: Wow .\n",
      "Professor B: And it 's {disfmarker} and , um , in fact at one point we had a {disfmarker} a proposal in with Rutgers where we were gonna do some of the sort of per channel signal - processing and they were gonna do the multi - channel stuff , but {pause} it d it d we ended up not doing it . But {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I 've seen demonstrations of the microphone arrays . It 's amazing how {disfmarker} how they can cut out noise .\nProfessor B: Yeah , it 's r It 's really neat stuff .\nGrad H: And then they have little ones too\n",
      "Professor B: And then they had the little ones , yeah .\nGrad H: but I mean {disfmarker} but they don't have our block of wood , right ?\nProfessor B: Yeah , our block of wood is unique .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But the {vocalsound} But the No , there are these commercial things now you can buy that have four mikes or something\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker} and , uh , um {disfmarker} So , yeah , there 's {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker} there 's a range of things that people do .\nPhD E: Huh .\n",
      "Professor B: Um , so if we connected up with somebody who was interested in doing that sort of thing that 's {disfmarker} that 's a good thing to do . I mean , whenever I 've described this to other people who are interested on the {disfmarker} with the acoustic side that 's invariably the question they ask . Just like someone who is interested in the general dialogue thing will always ask {vocalsound} \" um , are you recording video ? \"\nPhD A: Right ,\nProfessor B: Um , right ?\nPhD A: right .\n",
      "Professor B: And {disfmarker} and the acoustic people will always say , \" well are you doing , uh , uh , array microphones ? \" So it 's {disfmarker} it 's a good thing to do , but it doesn't solve the problem of how do you solve things when there 's one mike or at best two mikes in {disfmarker} in this imagined PDA that we have . So maybe {disfmarker} maybe we 'll do some more of it .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Well one thing I {disfmarker} I mean , I don't know . I mean , I know that having an array of {disfmarker} I mean , I would imagine it would be more expensive to have a {disfmarker} an array of microphones . But couldn't you kind of approximate the natural sis situation by just shutting off uh , channels when you 're {disfmarker} later on ? I mean , it seems like if the microphones don't effect each other then couldn't you just , you know , record them with an array and then just not use all the data ?\n",
      "Grad H: It 's {disfmarker} it 's just a lot of infrastructure that for our particular purpose we felt we didn't need to set up .\nPostdoc G: I see .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Fine .\nProfessor B: Yeah , if ninety - nine percent of what you 're doing is c is shutting off most of the mikes , then going through the {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: But if you get somebody who 's {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who has that as a primary interest then that put {disfmarker} then that drives it in that direction .\n",
      "Grad H: That 's right , I mean if someone {disfmarker} if someone came in and said we really want to do it ,\nPhD A: Right .\nGrad H: I mean , we don't care . That would be fine ,\nPhD E: So to save that data you {disfmarker} You have to have one channel recording per mike in the array ?\nGrad H: Buy more disk space .\nProfessor B: Well , uh , at some level {disfmarker} at some level .\nPhD E: Is that {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I usually do a mix .\n",
      "Professor B: But then , you know , there 's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} there 's {disfmarker}\nPhD E: What you save , I mean , if you 're going to do research with it . yeah\nProfessor B: There 's {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I don't know what they 're going to do and I don't know how big their array is . Obviously if you were gonna save all of those channels for later research you 'd use up a lot of space .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nProfessor B: And , th\nPhD E: Hmm .\n",
      "Grad H: Well their software infrastructure had a very elaborate design for plugging in filters , and mixers , and all sorts of processing . So that they can do stuff in real time and not save out each channel individually .\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah .\nPhD E: Mmm .\nGrad H: So it was , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: But I mean , uh , for optimum flexibility later you 'd want to save each channel . But I think in practical situations you would have some engine of some sort doing some processing to reduce this to some {disfmarker} to the equivalent of a single microphone that was very directional .\n",
      "PhD E: Uh , oh , OK , I see .\nProfessor B: Right ?\nPhD A: I mean , it seems {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Sort of saving the result of the beam - forming .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: it seems to me that there 's {disfmarker} you know , there are good political reasons for {disfmarker} for doing this , just getting the data , because there 's a number of sites {disfmarker} like right now SRI is probably gonna invest a lot of internal funding into recording meetings also , which is good , um , but they 'll be recording with video and they 'll be {disfmarker} You know , it 'd be nice if we can have at least , uh , make use of the data that we 're recording as we go since it 's sort of {disfmarker} this is the first site that has really collected these really impromptu meetings , um , and just have this other information available . So , if we can get the investment in just for the infra infrastructure and then , I don't know , save it out or have whoever 's interested save that data out , transfer it there , it 'd be g it 'd be good to have {disfmarker} have the recording . I think .\n",
      "Grad H: You mean to {disfmarker} to actually get a microphone array and do that ?\nPhD A: Well , if {disfmarker} Even if we 're not {disfmarker}\nGrad H: And video and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I 'm not sure about video . That 's sort of an {disfmarker} video has a little different nature since right n right now we 're all being recorded but we 're not being taped . Um , but it {disfmarker} definitely in the case of microphone arrays , since if there was a community interested in this , then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Well , but I think we need a researcher here who 's interested in it . To push it along .\nProfessor B: See the problem is it {disfmarker} it took , uh , uh , it took at least six months for Dan to get together the hardware and the software , and debug stuff in {disfmarker} in the microphones , and in the boxes . And it was a really big deal . And so I think we could get a microphone array in here pretty easily and , uh , have it mixed to {disfmarker} to one channel of some sort .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: But , e I think for I mean , how we 're gonna decide {disfmarker} For {disfmarker} for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that 's pointed in the direction of the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that . I mean , you {disfmarker} you want actually to {disfmarker} you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can {disfmarker} And to do that , it {disfmarker} we 're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up , we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels and in {pause} this meeting , we 've got eight people and {disfmarker} and six mikes . And there we 're already using fourteen .\n",
      "Grad H: And we actually only have fifteen .\nProfessor B: E\nGrad H: One of them 's {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Details .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad H: But fifteen , not sixteen .\nPhD A: Well if there 's a way to say time {disfmarker} to sort of solve each of these f those {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: So suppose you can get an array in because there 's some person at Berkeley who 's interested and has some {pause} equipment , uh , and suppose we can {disfmarker} as we save it we can , you know , transfer it off to some other place that {disfmarker} that holds this {disfmarker} this data , who 's interested , and even if ICSI it itself isn't . Um , and it {disfmarker} it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning , do we need to mix it with the rest ? I don't know . You know ? The\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah . So I think you 'd need a separate {disfmarker} a separate set up\nPhD A: So {disfmarker} Yeah .\nProfessor B: and the assumption that you could time align the two .\nPhD A: I mean it 's just {disfmarker} it 's worth considering as sort of\nGrad H: And y it 'd certainly gets skew .\nPhD A: once you make the up front investment {comment} and can sort of save it out each time , and {disfmarker} and not have to worry about the disk space factor , then it mi it might be worth having the data .\n",
      "Professor B: I 'm not so much worried about disk space actually . I mentioned that , b as a practical matter ,\nGrad H: Just {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: but the real issue is that , uh , there is no way to do a recording extended to what we have now with low skew . So {pause} you would have a t completely separate set up ,\nPhD A: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: which would mean that the sampling times and so forth would be all over the place compared to this . So it would depend on the level of pr processing you were doing later , but if you 're d i the kind of person who 's doing array processing you actually care about funny little times . And {disfmarker} and so you actually wou would want to have a completely different set up than we have ,\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: one that would go up to thirty - two channels or something .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor B: So basically {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Or a hundred thirty - two .\n",
      "Professor B: or a hun Yeah . So , I 'm kinda skeptical , but um I think that {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor B: So , uh , I don't think we can share the resource in that way . But what we could do is if there was someone else who 's interested they could have a separate set up which they wouldn't be trying to synch with ours which might be useful for {disfmarker} for them .\nPhD A: Right , I mean at least they 'd have the data and the transcripts ,\nProfessor B: And then we can offer up the room ,\n",
      "PhD A: and {disfmarker} Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah , we can o offer the meetings , and the physical space , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} yeah , the transcripts , and so on .\nPhD A: OK . Right , I mean , just {disfmarker} it 'd be nice if we have more information on the same data . You know , and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: But it 's {disfmarker} if it 's impossible or if it 's a lot of effort then you have to just balance the two ,\nProfessor B: Well I thi\n",
      "PhD A: so {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: yeah , the thing will be , u u in {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} again , in talking to these other people to see what {disfmarker} you know , what {disfmarker} what we can do .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Uh , we 'll see .\nPhD E: Is there an interest in getting video recordings for these meetings ? \nProfessor B: Right , so we have {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}\nPhD E: I mean\n",
      "Grad H: Yes , absolutely . But it 's exactly the same problem , that you have an infrastructure problem , you have a problem with people not wanting to be video taped , and you have the problem that no one who 's currently involved in the project is really hot to do it .\nPhD E: Hmm . So there 's not enough interest to overcome all of {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Right . Internally , but I know there is interest from other places that are interested in looking at meeting data and having the video . So it 's just {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: Yeah , w although I {disfmarker} m {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} I have to u u mention the human subjects problems , {pause} that i increase with video .\nPhD A: Right , that 's true .\nProfessor B: Yeah , so it 's , uh , people {disfmarker} people getting shy about it .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: There 's this human subjects problem . There 's the fact that then um , if {disfmarker} i I I 've heard comments about this before , \" why don't you just put on a video camera ? \" But you know , it 's sort of like saying , \" uh , well we 're primarily interested in {disfmarker} in some dialogue things , uh , but , uh , why don't we just throw a microphone out there . \" I mean , the thing is , once you actually have serious interest in any of these things then you actually have to put a lot of effort in .\nPhD E: Mmm .\n",
      "Professor B: And , uh , you really want to do it right .\nGrad H: I know . Yep .\nProfessor B: So I think NIST or LDC , or somebody like that I think is much better shape to do all that . We {disfmarker} there will be other meeting recordings . We won't be the only place doing meeting recordings . We are doing what we 're doing .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And , uh , hopefully it 'll be useful .\nPostdoc G: I {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it occurred to me , has Don signed a human subject 's form ?\n",
      "Grad H: Oh ! Probably not .\nPostdoc G: A permission form ?\nGrad H: Has Don {disfmarker} have you s did you si I thought you did actually .\nGrad F: I was {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah , I was {disfmarker} I was here {disfmarker} I was here before once .\nGrad H: Didn't you read a digit string ?\nPhD E: You were here at a meeting before .\nPostdoc G: You were here at a meeting before .\nPhD E: Yeah .\nGrad F: So .\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , and you {disfmarker} and you signed a form .\nGrad F: Oh , I think so .\nPostdoc G: Did you sign a form ?\nGrad F: Did I ? I don't know .\nGrad H: I 'm pretty sure . Well I 'll {disfmarker} I 'll get another one before the end of the meeting .\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad H: Thank you .\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: You don't {disfmarker} you don't have to leave for it .\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: But I just {disfmarker}\nGrad F: Can I verbally consent ?\nPostdoc G: you know .\nGrad H: Well I can't , I 'm wired in .\nProfessor B: We {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we don't , uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Yeah . You 're on recor you 're being recorded\nPostdoc G: o\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD A: and {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: we don't {disfmarker} we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings ,\nGrad F: I don't care . You can do whatever you want with it .\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Usually .\nGrad F: That 's fine .\nProfessor B: Yeah . OK . Uh , transcriptions .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Transcriptions , OK . Um , I thought about {disfmarker} there are maybe three aspects of this . So first of all , um , I 've got eight transcribers . Uh , seven of them are linguists . One of them is a graduate student in psychology . Um , Each {disfmarker} I gave each of them , uh , their own data set . Two of them have already finished the data sets . And {pause} the meetings run , you know , let 's say an hour . Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half .\nPhD E: How big is the data set ?\n",
      "Postdoc G: Oh , it 's {disfmarker} what I mean is one meeting .\nPhD E: Ah , OK .\nPostdoc G: Each {disfmarker} each person got their own meeting . I didn't want to have any conflicts of , you know , of {disfmarker} of when to stop transcribing this one or {disfmarker} So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and so {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Uh - huh .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And , uh , meetings , you know , I think that they 're {disfmarker} they go as long as a {disfmarker} almost two hours in some {disfmarker} in some cases . So , you know , that means {disfmarker} you know , if we 've got two already finished and they 're working on {disfmarker} Uh , right now all eight of them have differe uh , uh , additional data sets . That means potentially as many as ten might be finished by the end of the month .\nPhD E: Wow .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Hope so . But the pre - segmentation really helps a huge amount .\nPhD C: OK .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And , uh , also Dan Ellis 's innovation of the , uh {disfmarker} the multi - channel to here really helped a r a lot in terms of clearing {disfmarker} clearing up h hearings that involve overlaps . But , um , just out of curiosity I asked one of them how long {pause} it was taking her , one of these two who has already finished her data set . She said it takes about , uh , sixty minutes transcription for every five minutes of real time . So it 's about twelve to one , which is what we were thinking .\nGrad H: or Yep .\nPostdoc G: It 's well in the range .\n",
      "Grad H: It 's pretty good .\nPostdoc G: OK . Uh , these still , when they 're finished , um , that means that they 're finished with their pass through . They still need to be edited and all but {disfmarker} But it 's word level , speaker change , the things that were mentioned . OK , now I wanted to mention the , um , teleconference I had with , uh , Jonathan Fiscus . We spoke for an hour and a half and , um , had an awful lot of things in common .\nGrad H: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: He , um , um , he in indicated to me that they 've {disfmarker} that he 's been , uh , looking , uh , uh , spending a lot of time with {disfmarker} I 'm not quite sure the connection , but spending a lot of time with the ATLAS system . And I guess that {disfmarker} I mean , I {disfmarker} I need to read up on that . And there 's a web site that has lots of papers . But it looks to me like that 's the name that has developed for the system that Bird and Liberman developed {comment} for the annotated {pause} graphs approach .\n",
      "Grad H: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: So what he wants me to do and what we {disfmarker} what we will do and {disfmarker} uh , is to provide them with the u already transcribed meeting for him to be able to experiment with in this ATLAS System . And they do have some sort of software , at least that 's my impression , related to ATLAS and that he wants to experiment with taking our data and putting them in that format , and see how that works out . I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I explained to him in {disfmarker} in detail the , uh , conventions that we 're using here in this {disfmarker} in this word level transcript . And , um , you know , I {disfmarker} I explained , you know , the reasons that {disfmarker} that we were not coding more elaborately and {disfmarker} and the focus on reliability . He expressed a lot of interest in reliability . It 's like he 's {disfmarker} he 's really up on these things . He 's {disfmarker} he 's very {disfmarker} Um , independently he asked , \" well what about reliability ? \" So , {vocalsound} he 's interested in the consistency of the encoding and that sort of thing . OK , um {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: Sorry , can you explain what the ATLAS {disfmarker} I 'm not familiar with this ATLAS system .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Well , you know , at this point I think {disfmarker} Uh , well Adam 's read more {disfmarker} in more detail than I have on this . I need to acquaint myself more with it . But , um , there {disfmarker} there is a way of viewing {disfmarker} Uh , whenever you have coding categories , um , and you 're dealing with uh , a taxonomy , then you can have branches that {disfmarker} that have alternative , uh , choices that you could use for each {disfmarker} each of them . And it just ends up looking like a graphical representation .\n",
      "Grad H: Is {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} Is ATLAS the {disfmarker} his annotated transcription graph stuff ? I don't remember the acronym . The {disfmarker} the one {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} what I think you 're referring to , they {disfmarker} they have this concept of an an annotated transcription graph representation .\nPhD A: Oh . Oh .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: And that 's basically what I based the format that I did {disfmarker} I based it on their work almost directly , in combination with the TEI stuff . And so it 's very , very similar . And so it 's {disfmarker} it 's a data representation and a set of tools for manipulating transcription graphs of various types .\nPhD E: Is this the project that 's sort of , uh , between , uh , NIST and {disfmarker} and , uh , a couple of other places ?\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: Including LDC .\nPhD E: Yeah ,\nPostdoc G: I think so .\nGrad H: Yep .\nPhD E: y right , OK .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm . Then there 's their web site that has lots of papers . And I looked through them and they mainly had to do with this , um , this , uh , tree structure , uh , annotated tree diagram thing .\nPhD A: Mmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: So , um , um {disfmarker} and , you know , in terms of like the conventions that I 'm a that I 've adopted , it {disfmarker} there {disfmarker} there 's no conflict at all .\nGrad H: Right .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And he was , you know , very interested . And , \" oh , and how 'd you handle this ? \" And I said , \" well , you know , this way \" and {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and we had a really nice conversation . Um , OK , now I also wanted to say in a different {disfmarker} a different direction is , Brian Kingsbury . So , um , I corresponded briefly with him . I , uh , c I {disfmarker} He still has an account here . I told him he could SSH on and use multi - trans , and have a look at the already done , uh , transcription . And he {disfmarker} and he did . And what he said was that , um , what they 'll be providing is {disfmarker} will not be as fine grained in terms of the time information . And , um , that 's , uh {disfmarker} You know , I need to get back to him and {disfmarker} and , uh , you know , explore that a little bit more and see what they 'll be giving us in specific ,\n",
      "PhD A: Hmm .\nPhD E: The p the people {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: but I just haven't had time yet .\nPhD E: The {disfmarker} the folks that they 're , uh , subcontracting out the transcription to , are they like court reporters\nPostdoc G: Sorry , what ? Yes .\nPhD E: or {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: Apparently {disfmarker} Well , I get the sense they 're kind of like that . Like it 's like a pool of {disfmarker} of somewhat uh , secretarial {disfmarker} I don't think that they 're court reporters . I don't think they have the special keyboards and that {disfmarker} and that type of training .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc G: I {disfmarker} I get the sense they 're more secretarial . And that , um , uh , what they 're doing is giving them {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Hmm . Like medical transcriptionist type people {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Nu - it 's mostly {disfmarker} it 's for their speech recognition products ,\nPhD E: But aren't {disfmarker} they 're {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Yep .\nGrad H: that they 've hired these people to do .\nPhD E: Oh , so they 're hiring them , they 're coming . It 's not a service they send the tapes out to .\n",
      "Grad H: Well they {disfmarker} they do send it out but my understanding is that that 's all this company does is transcriptions for IBM for their speech product .\nPhD E: Ah ! Oh . OK . I gotcha .\nGrad H: So most of it 's ViaVoice , people reading their training material for that .\nPhD E: I see .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: I see .\nPostdoc G: Up to now it 's been monologues , uh , as far my understood .\nGrad H: Yep , exactly .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And {disfmarker} and what they 're doing is\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nGrad H: Yep .\nPostdoc G: Brian himself downloaded {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} So , um , Adam sent them a CD and Brian himself downloaded {disfmarker} uh , cuz , you know , I mean , we wanted to have it so that they were in familiar f terms with what they wanted to do . He downloaded {pause} from the CD onto audio tapes . And apparently he did it one channel per audio tape . So each of these people is {pause} transcribing from one channel .\n",
      "Grad H: Right .\nPhD E: Oh .\nPostdoc G: And then what he 's going to do is check it , a before they go be beyond the first one . Check it and , you know , adjust it , and all that .\nPhD E: So each person gets one of these channels {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Right .\nProfessor B: So if they hear something off in the distance they don't {disfmarker} they just go {disfmarker}\nPhD E: OK .\nPostdoc G: I {disfmarker} I don't know .\n",
      "Grad H: Well , but that 's OK , because , you know , you 'll do all them and then combine them .\nPhD E: But there could be problems , right ? with that .\nPostdoc G: I have t I , you know I {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yep .\nPostdoc G: I think it would be difficult to do it that way . I really\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD E: Well if you 're tran if you got that channel right there {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: d uh , in my case {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: No , no . We 're talking about close talking , not the {disfmarker} not the desktop .\nPhD D: No , close talk .\nProfessor B: Are you ?\nPostdoc G: Yes . Well I th I think so .\nGrad H: I sure hope so . It 'd be really foolish to do otherwise .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , I {disfmarker} I would think that it would be kind of hard to come out with {disfmarker} Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: I {disfmarker} I think it 's sort of hard just playing the {disfmarker} you know , just having played the individual files . And I {disfmarker} I mean , I know you . I know what your voice sounds like . I 'm sort of familiar with {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD A: Uh , it 's pretty hard to follow , especially\nGrad H: One side .\nPhD A: there are a lot of words that are so reduced phonetically that make sense when you know what the person was saying before .\nPostdoc G: I agree .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD E: Yeah , that 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Uh , it sort of depends where you are in {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: And especially since a lot of these {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: But I mean we had this {disfmarker} we 've had this discussion many times .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , we have .\nGrad H: And the answer is we don't actually know the answer because we haven't tried both ways .\nPostdoc G: Well , except I can say that my transcribers use the mixed signal mostly\nGrad H: So . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: Right .\nPostdoc G: unless there 's a huge disparity in terms of the volume on {disfmarker} on the mix . In which case , you know , they {disfmarker} they wouldn't be able to catch anything except the prominent {comment} channel ,\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: then they 'll switch between .\nGrad H: Well I think that {disfmarker} that might change if you wanted really fine time markings .\nPostdoc G: But {disfmarker} but really {disfmarker} Well , OK .\n",
      "Grad H: So .\nProfessor B: But they 're not giving f really fine time markings .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , well {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Actually , are th so {vocalsound} are they giving any time markings ?\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD A: In other words , if {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Well , I have to ask him .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: And that 's {disfmarker} that 's my email to him . That needs to be forthcoming .\nPhD A: Cuz {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "Postdoc G: But {disfmarker} but the , uh {disfmarker} I did want to say that it 's hard to follow one channel of a conversation even if you know the people , and if you 're dealing furthermore with highly abstract network concepts you 've never heard of {disfmarker} So , you know , one of these people was {disfmarker} was transcribing the , uh , networks group talk and she said , \" I don't really know what a lot of these abbreviations are , \" \" but I just put them in parentheses cuz that 's the {disfmarker} that 's the convention and I just \" {disfmarker} Cuz you know , if you don't know {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Oh , I 'd be curious to {disfmarker} to look at that .\nPhD E: Just out of curiosity , I mean {disfmarker}\nGrad H: They also all have h heavy accents .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad H: The networks group meetings are all {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Given all of the effort that is going on here in transcribing why do we have I B M doing it ? Why not just do it all ourselves ?\n",
      "Professor B: Um , it 's historical . I mean , uh , some point ago we thought that uh , it {disfmarker} \" boy , we 'd really have to ramp up to do that \" ,\nPhD C: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: No , just {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: you know , like we just did , and , um , here 's , uh , a {disfmarker} a , uh , collaborating institution that 's volunteered to do it .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: So , that was a contribution they could make . Uh in terms of time , money , you know ?\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And it still might be a good thing\nPhD E: I 'm just wondering now {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Actu yeah , Mar - Mari asked me the same question as sort of {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Well , I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm wondering now if it 's {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Well we can talk about more details later .\n",
      "PhD A: um , you know , yeah , whether to {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah . Yeah . Yeah , so .\nPhD E: Hmm .\nProfessor B: We 'll see . I mean , I think , th you know , they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they 've proceeded along a bit . Let 's see what comes out of it , and {disfmarker} and , uh , you know , have some more discussions with them .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Mm - hmm . It 's very {disfmarker} a real benefit having Brian involved because of his knowledge of what the {disfmarker} how the data need to be used and so what 's useful to have in the format .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm . Yeah .\nGrad H: So , um , Liz , with {disfmarker} with the SRI recognizer , {comment} can it make use of some time marks ?\nPhD A: OK , so this is a , um ,\nGrad H: I {disfmarker} I guess I don't know what that means .\n",
      "PhD A: and actually I should say this is what Don has b uh , he 's already been really helpful in , uh , chopping up these {disfmarker} So {disfmarker} so first of all you {disfmarker} um , I mean , for the SRI front - end , we really need to chop things up into pieces that are f not too huge . Um , but second of all , uh {disfmarker} in general because some of these channels , I 'd say , like , I don't know , at least half of them probably {comment} on average are g are ha are {disfmarker} have a lot of cross - ta sorry , some of the segments have a lot of cross - talk . Um , it 's good to get sort of short segments if you 're gonna do recognition , especially forced alignment . So , uh , Don has been taking a first stab actually using Jane 's first {disfmarker} the fir the meeting that Jane transcribed which we did have some problems with , and Thilo , uh , I think told me why this was , but that people were switching microphones around {comment} in the very beginning , so {disfmarker} the SRI re\n",
      "PhD C: No , th Yeah . No . They {disfmarker} they were not switching them but what they were {disfmarker} they were adjusting them ,\nPhD A: and they {disfmarker} They were not {disfmarker}\nPhD C: so .\nGrad F: Mmm .\nGrad H: Adjusting . Oh .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nPhD C: And aft after a minute or so it 's {disfmarker} it 's way better .\nPhD A: So we have to sort of normalize {comment} the front - end and so forth , and have these small segments .\n",
      "PhD C: So {disfmarker} Yep .\nPhD A: So we 've taken that and chopped it into pieces based always on your {disfmarker} your , um , cuts that you made on the mixed signal . And so that every {disfmarker} every speaker has the same cuts . And if they have speech in it we run it through . And if they don't have speech in it we don't run it through . And we base that knowledge on the transcription .\nGrad H: On {disfmarker} Just on the marks . Right ?\n",
      "PhD A: Um , the problem is if we have no time marks , then for forced alignment we actually don't know where {disfmarker} you know , in the signal the transcriber heard that word . And so {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Oh , I see ,\nPhD A: I mean , if {disfmarker} if it 's a whole conversation and we get a long , uh , you know , par paragraph of {disfmarker} of talk ,\nGrad H: it 's for the length . I see .\n",
      "PhD A: uh , I don't know how they do this . Um , we actually don't know which piece goes where .\nGrad H: I understand .\nPhD A: And , um , I think with {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Well you would need to {disfmarker} like a forced alignment before you did the chopping , right ?\nPhD A: No , we used the fact that {disfmarker} So when Jane transcribes them the way she has transcribers doing this , whether it 's with the pre - segmentation or not ,\nGrad H: It 's already chunked .\n",
      "PhD A: they have a chunk and then they transcribes {comment} the words in the chunk . And maybe they choose the chunk or now they use a pre - segmentation and then correct it if necessary . But there 's first a chunk and then a transcription .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Then a chunk , then a transcription . That 's great , cuz the recognizer can {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Uh , it 's all pretty good sized for the recognizer also .\nPhD A: Right , and it {disfmarker} it helps that it 's made based on sort of heuristics and human ear I think .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Good . Oh good .\nPhD A: Th - but there 's going to be a real problem , uh , even if we chop up based on speech silence these , uh , the transcripts from I B M , we don't actually know where the words were , which segment they belonged to .\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD A: So that 's sort of what I 'm {pause} worried about right now .\nPhD E: Why not do a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a forced alignment ?\nGrad H: That 's what she 's saying , is that you can't .\n",
      "PhD A: If you do a forced alignment on something really {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Got uh six sixty minutes of {disfmarker}\nPhD A: well even if you do it on something really long you need to know {disfmarker} you can always chop it up but you need to have a reference of which words went with which , uh , chop .\nPostdoc G: Now wasn't {disfmarker} I thought that one of the proposals was that IBM was going to do an initial forced alignment ,\nPhD A: So {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: after they {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , but {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I {disfmarker} I think that they are ,\nGrad H: We 'll have to talk to Brian .\nProfessor B: um , yeah , I 'm sure they will and so we {disfmarker} we have to have a dialogue with them about it .\nPhD A: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean , it sounds like Liz has some concerns\nPhD A: Maybe they have some {disfmarker} you know , maybe actually there is some , even if they 're not fine grained , maybe the transcribers {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: and {disfmarker}\nPhD A: uh , I don't know , maybe it 's saved out in pieces or {disfmarker} or something . That would help .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nPhD A: But , uh , it 's just an unknown right now .\nPostdoc G: Yeah . I {disfmarker} I need to {disfmarker} to write to him .\nPhD A: So .\nPostdoc G: I just {disfmarker} you know , it 's like I got over - taxed with the timing .\n",
      "PhD A: Right . But the {disfmarker} it is true that the segments {disfmarker} I haven't tried the segments that Thilo gave you but the segments that in your first meeting are great .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: I mean , that 's {disfmarker} that 's a good length .\nPostdoc G: A good size . Good .\nPhD A: Right , cuz {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: Well , I {disfmarker} I was thinking it would be fun to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} uh , uh , if {disfmarker} if you {disfmarker} wouldn't mind , {comment} {vocalsound} to give us a pre - segmentation .\nPhD A: y yeah .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Uh , maybe you have one already of that first m of the meeting that uh , the first transcribed meeting , the one that I transcribed .\nPhD C: Um , I 'm sure I have some\n",
      "Postdoc G: Do you have a {disfmarker} could you generate a pre - segmentation ?\nGrad H: February sixteenth I think .\nPhD C: but {disfmarker} but that 's the one where we 're , um , trai training on , so that 's a little bit {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Oh .\nPostdoc G: Oh , I see .\nPhD C: It 's a little bit at odd to {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Oh , darn . Of course , of course , of course . Yeah , OK .\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: And actually as you get transcripts just , um , for new meetings , {comment} um , we can try {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Uh - huh .\nPhD A: I mean , the {disfmarker} the more data we have to try the {disfmarker} the alignments on , um , the better . So it 'd be good for {disfmarker} just to know as transcriptions are coming through the pipeline from the transcribers , just to sort of {disfmarker} we 're playing around with sort of uh , parameters f on the recognizer ,\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: cuz that would be helpful . Especially as you get , en more voices .\nPostdoc G: Excellent , good .\nPhD A: The first meeting had I think just four people ,\nPhD C: Four speakers , yeah .\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yeah , Liz and I spoke d w at some length on Tuesday and {disfmarker} and I {disfmarker} and I was planning to do just a {disfmarker} a preliminary look over of the two that are finished and then give them to you .\nPhD A: Oh , great , great .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Yeah .\nPhD A: So .\n",
      "Professor B: That 's great . I guess the other thing , I {disfmarker} I can't remember if we discussed this in the meeting but , uh , I know you and I talked about this a little bit , there was an issue of , uh , suppose we get in the , uh , I guess it 's enviable position although maybe it 's just saying where the weak link is in the chain , uh , where we {disfmarker} we , uh {disfmarker} uh , we have all the data transcribed and we have these transcribers and we were {disfmarker} we 're {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} we 're still a bit slow on feeding {disfmarker} at that point we 've caught up and the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the , uh , the weak link is {disfmarker} is recording meetings . OK , um , two questions come , is you know what {disfmarker} how {disfmarker} how do we {disfmarker} uh , it 's not really a problem at the moment cuz we haven't reached that point but how do we step out the recorded meetings ? And the other one is , um , uh , is there some good use that we can make of the transcribers to do other things ? So , um , I {disfmarker} I can't remember how much we talked about this in this meeting but there was {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: We had spoken with them about it .\n",
      "Postdoc G: And there is one use that {disfmarker} that also we discussed which was when , uh , Dave finishes the {disfmarker} and maybe it 's already finished {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the modification to multi - trans which will allow fine grained encoding of overlaps . Uh , then it would be very {disfmarker} these people would be very good to shift over to finer grain encoding of overlaps . It 's just a matter of , you know , providing {disfmarker} So if right now you have two overlapping segments in the same time bin , well with {disfmarker} with the improvement in the database {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} in the , uh , sorry , in the interface , it 'd be possible to , um , you know , just do a click and drag thing , and get the {disfmarker} uh , the specific place of each of those , the time tag associated with the beginning and end of {disfmarker} of each segment .\n",
      "Professor B: Right , so I think we talking about three level {disfmarker} three things .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: One {disfmarker} one was uh , we had s had some discussion in the past about some very high level labelings ,\nPostdoc G: Yeah . The types of overlaps {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: types of overlaps , and so forth that {disfmarker} that someone could do . Second was , uh , somewhat lower level\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Professor B: just doing these more precise timings . And the third one is {disfmarker} is , uh , just a completely wild hair brained idea that I have which is that , um , if , uh {disfmarker} if we have time and people are able to do it , to take some subset of the data and do some very fine grained analysis of the speech . For instance , uh , marking in some overlapping {disfmarker} potentially overlapping fashion , uh , the value of , uh , ar articulatory features .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: You know , just sort of say , OK , it 's voiced from here to here , there 's {disfmarker} it 's nasal from here to here , and so forth . Um , as opposed to doing phonetic {disfmarker} uh , you know , phonemic and the phonetic analysis ,\nGrad H: \nProfessor B: and , uh , assuming , uh , articulatory feature values for those {disfmarker} those things . Um , obviously that 's extremely time - consuming . Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD E: That would be really valuable I think .\n",
      "Professor B: but , uh , we could do it on some small subset .\nPostdoc G: Also if you 're dealing with consonants that would be easier than vowels , wouldn't it ? I mean , I would think that {disfmarker} that , uh , being able to code that there 's a {disfmarker} a fricative extending from here to here would be a lot easier than classifying precisely which vowel that was .\nGrad H: Which one .\nPhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\nPostdoc G: I think vowels {disfmarker} vowels are I think harder .\nProfessor B: Well , yeah ,\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah .\nProfessor B: but I think also it 's just the issue that {disfmarker} that when you look at the {disfmarker} u w u u when you look at Switchboard for instance very close up there are places where whether it 's a consonant or a vowel you still have trouble calling it a particular phone\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: at that point\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm , OK .\nGrad H: Yeah , but {disfmarker} but just saying what the {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: because it 's {disfmarker} you know , there 's this movement from here to here\nPostdoc G: Yeah , I 'm sure . Uh , yeah , I {disfmarker} I know .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it 's {disfmarker} so I\nPhD E: You 're saying r sort of remove the high level constraints and go bottom - up .\nProfessor B: Yeah , describe {disfmarker} describe it .\nPhD E: Then just say {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Yep , just features .\n",
      "PhD A: Mmm .\nProfessor B: Now I 'm suggesting articulatory features . Maybe there 's {disfmarker} there 's even a better way to do it but it {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} but that 's , you know , sort of a traditional way of describing these things ,\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: um , and {disfmarker} uh , I mean , actually this might be a g neat thing to talk to {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: That 's nice .\nPhD E: Acoustic features versus psychological categories .\n",
      "Professor B: Sort of . I mean , it 's still {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: some sort of categories but {disfmarker} but something that allows for overlapping change of these things and then this would give some more ground work for people who were building statistical models that allowed for overlapping changes , different timing changes as opposed to just \" click , you 're now in this state , which corresponds to this speech sound \" and so on .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: So this is like gestural {disfmarker} uh , these g\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah , something like that .\nPhD A: Right . OK .\nProfessor B: I mean , actually if we get into that it might be good to , uh , uh , haul John Ohala into this\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: and ask his {disfmarker} his views on it I think .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD A: But is {disfmarker} is the goal there to have this on meeting data ,\nPostdoc G: Excellent .\n",
      "PhD A: like so that you can do far field studies {comment} of those gestures or {disfmarker} um , or is it because you think there 's a different kind of actual production in meetings {comment} that people use ? Or {disfmarker} ?\nProfessor B: No , I think {disfmarker} I think it 's {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} for that purpose I 'm just viewing meetings as being a {disfmarker} a neat way to get people talking naturally . And then you have i and then {disfmarker} and then it 's natural in all senses ,\n",
      "PhD E: Just a source of data ?\nPhD A: I see .\nProfessor B: in the sense that you have microphones that are at a distance that you know , one might have , and you have the close mikes , and you have people talking naturally . And the overlap is just indicative of the fact that people are talking naturally ,\nPhD A: Uh - huh .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: right ? So {disfmarker} so I think that given that it 's that kind of corpus ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: if it 's gonna be a very useful corpus um , if you say w OK , we 've limited the use by some of our , uh , uh , censored choices , we don't have the video , we don't {disfmarker} and so forth , but there 's a lot of use that we could make of it by expanding the annotation choices .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: And , uh , most of the things we 've talked about have been fairly high level , and being kind of a bottom - up person I thought maybe we 'd , {vocalsound} do some of the others .\n",
      "Grad H: Hmm .\nPhD A: Right . Yeah , that would be good .\nPostdoc G: It 's a nice balance .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: That would be really nice to offer those things with that wide range .\nPhD A: Right .\nProfessor B: Yeah and hopefully someone would make use of it .\nPostdoc G: Really nice .\nProfessor B: I mean , people didn't {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: uh , I mean , people have made a lot of use of {disfmarker} of TIMIT and , uh w due to its markings , and then {pause} the Switchboard transcription thing , well I think has been very useful for a lot of people .\nGrad H: Right .\nPhD A: That 's true .\nProfessor B: So {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I guess I wanted to , um , sort of make a pitch for trying to collect more meetings .\nPostdoc G: Cool .\nPhD A: Um ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: I actually I talked to Chuck Fillmore and I think they 've what , vehemently said no before but this time he wasn't vehement and he said you know , \" well , Liz , come to the meeting tomorrow\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: and try to convince people \" . So I 'm gonna {pause} try . Go to their meeting tomorrow and see if we can try , uh , to convince them\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm . Good .\nProfessor B: Cuz they have something like three or four different meetings ,\n",
      "PhD A: because they have {disfmarker} And they have very interesting meetings from the point of view of a very different type of {disfmarker} of talk than we have here\nProfessor B: right ?\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD D: Talk {disfmarker}\nPhD A: and definitely than the front end meeting , probably . Um {disfmarker}\nPhD E: You mean in terms of the topic {disfmarker} topics ?\nPhD A: Well , yes and in terms of the {disfmarker} the fact that they 're describing abstract things and , uh , just dialogue - wise ,\n",
      "Professor B: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: right .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: Um , so I 'll try . And then the other thing is , I don't know if this is at all useful , but I asked Lila if I can maybe go around and talk to the different departments in this building to see if there 's any groups that , for a free lunch ,\nProfessor B: Yes .\nPhD A: if we can still offer that , might be willing {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Great .\nGrad H: You mean non - ICSI ?\nPhD A: non - ICSI , non - academic ,\n",
      "Grad H: Yeah , I guess you {disfmarker} you can try\nPhD A: you know , like government people ,\nGrad H: but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I don't know .\nGrad H: The problem is so much of their stuff is confidential .\nPhD A: So .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad H: It would be very hard for them .\nPhD A: Is {disfmarker} is it in these departments ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Also it does seem like it takes us way out of the demographic . I mean , it seems like we {disfmarker} we had this idea before of having like linguistics students brought down for free lunches\nGrad H: Well , tha I think that 's her point .\nPostdoc G: and that 's a nice idea .\nPhD A: Right , and then we could also {disfmarker} we might try advertising again because I think it 'd be good if {disfmarker} if we can get a few different sort of non - internal types of meetings\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: and just also more data . So .\nPhD E: Does {disfmarker} does John Ohala have weekly phonetics lab meetings ?\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad H: And I think , uh , if we could get {disfmarker}\nPhD A: So I actually wrote to him and he answered , \" great , that sounds really interesting \" . But I never heard back because we didn't actually advertise openly . We a I mean w I told {disfmarker} I d asked him privately . Um , and it is a little bit of a trek for campus {pause} folks .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nGrad H: Yeah . You might give them a free lunch .\nPhD A: Um , so it 's still worthwhile .\nGrad H: But , um , it would be nice if we got someone other than me who knew how to set it up and could do the recording\nPhD A: So {disfmarker}\nGrad H: so u I didn't have to do it each time .\nPhD A: Exactly , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Yeah . That 's right .\nPhD A: and I was thinking {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: He - he 's supposed {disfmarker} he 's supposed to be trained {vocalsound} to do it .\nPhD A: Yeah . Plus we could also get you know , a s a student .\nGrad H: OK , next week {pause} you 're going to do it all .\nPhD D: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD A: And I 'm willing to try to learn . I mean , I 'm {disfmarker} I would do my best . Um , the other thing is that {disfmarker} there was a number of things at the transcription side that , um , transcribers can do , like dialogue act tagging ,\nGrad H: It 's not that hard .\n",
      "PhD A: disfluency tagging , um , things that are in the speech that are actually something we 're y {comment} working on for language modeling . And Mari 's also interested in it , Andreas as well . So if you wanna process a utterance and the first thing they say is , \" well \" , and that \" well \" is coded as some kind of interrupt u tag . Uh , and things like that , um , th\nPostdoc G: Of course some of that can be li done lexically .\nPhD A: A lot of it can be done {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: And I also {disfmarker} they are doing disfluency tagging to some degree already .\nPhD A: Great . So a {disfmarker} a lot of this kind of {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nPhD A: I think there 's a second pass and I don't really know what would exist in it . But there 's definitely a second pass worth doing to maybe encode some kinds of , you know , is it a question or not ,\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: or {disfmarker} um , that maybe these transcribers could do . So {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPostdoc G: They 'd be really good . They 're {disfmarker} they 're very {disfmarker} they 're very consistent .\nPhD A: That 'd be great .\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Uh , I wanted to {disfmarker} whi while we 're {disfmarker} Uh , so , to return just briefly to this question of more meeting data , um {disfmarker} I have two questions . One of them is , um , Jerry Feldman 's group , they {disfmarker} they , uh , are they {disfmarker} I know that they recorded one meeting . Are they willing ?\nProfessor B: I think they 're open to it . I think , you know , all these things are {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Oh , yeah .\n",
      "Professor B: I think there 's {disfmarker} we should go beyond , uh , ICSI but , I mean , there 's a lot of stuff happening at ICSI that we 're not getting now that we could .\nPhD A: Oh , that we could .\nProfessor B: So it 's just {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: OK . I thought that all these people had sort of said \" no \" twice already .\nProfessor B: Yeah . So the {disfmarker}\nPhD A: If that 's not the case then {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: No , no . No . So th there was the thing in Fillmore 's group but even there he hadn't {disfmarker} What he 'd said \" no \" to was for the main meeting . But they have several smaller meetings a week ,\nGrad H: So .\nProfessor B: and , uh , the notion was raised before that that could happen . And it just , you know {disfmarker} it just didn't come together\nPhD A: Just {disfmarker} OK .\n",
      "PhD E: Well , and {disfmarker} and the other thing too is when they originally said \" no \" they didn't know about this post - editing capability thing .\nProfessor B: but {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Right .\nPostdoc G: Oh .\nProfessor B: Yeah . {vocalsound} Yeah .\nPhD A: Right . That was a big fear .\nPhD E: So .\nPostdoc G: That 's important .\nProfessor B: Yeah , so I mean there 's possibilities there . I think Jerry 's group , yes .\nPhD A: OK .\n",
      "Professor B: Uh , there 's {disfmarker} there 's , uh , the networks group , uh , I don't {disfmarker} Do they still meeting regularly or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad H: Well , I don't know if they meet regularly or not but they are no longer recording .\nProfessor B: But I mean , ha ha have they said they don't want to anymore or {disfmarker} ?\nGrad H: Um , ugh , what was his name ?\nProfessor B: Uh , i i\nPostdoc G: Joe Sokol ?\nGrad H: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: When {disfmarker} with him gone , it sorta trickled off .\nProfessor B: OK , so they 're down to three or four people\nGrad H: They {disfmarker} and they stopped {disfmarker} Yeah .\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: but the thing is three or four people is OK .\nGrad H: Yep .\nPostdoc G: We might be able to get the administration {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Well he was sort of my contact , so I just need to find out who 's running it now .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad H: So .\n",
      "Postdoc G: I see that Lila has a luncheon meeting in here periodically .\nPhD A: Yeah , I mean , it {disfmarker} One thing that would be nice\nPostdoc G: I don't know {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: and this {disfmarker} it sounds bizarre but , I 'd really like to look at {disfmarker} to get some meetings where there 's a little bit of heated discussion , like ar arguments and {disfmarker} or emotion , and things like that . And so I was thinking if there 's any like Berkeley political groups or something . I mean , that 'd be perfect . Some group , \" yes , we must {disfmarker} \"\nGrad H: Who 's willing to get recorded and distributed ?\nPhD A: Well , you know , something {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad F: Yeah , I don't think the more political argumentative ones would be willing to {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Um {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah , with {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with potential use from the defense department .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: Well , OK .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD A: No , but maybe stu student , uh , groups or , um , film - makers , or som Something a little bit colorful .\nPhD C: Yeah .\nGrad F: Yeah . {vocalsound} Exactly .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nGrad H: Yeah .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah . {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah , th there 's a problem there in terms of , uh , the um commercial value of {disfmarker} of st uh ,\nPostdoc G: Yeah , of course there is this problem though , that if we give them the chance to excise later we e {vocalsound} might end up with like five minutes out of a f {comment} {pause} of m one hour\nPhD D: Film - maker .\nGrad H: Of beeps ,\n",
      "PhD C: Yeah . Yeah .\nGrad H: yeah .\nPhD A: And I don't mean that they 're angry\nPhD D: Is {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: of {disfmarker} {comment} Yes . Really .\nPhD A: but just something with some more variation in prosodic contours and so forth would be neat . So if anyone has ideas , I 'm willing to do the leg work to go try to talk to people but I don't really know which groups are worth pursuing .\nPostdoc G: Well there was this K P F A\nGrad H: No that 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: but {disfmarker} OK .\nGrad H: Legal .\nPostdoc G: OK , OK .\nProfessor B: it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} it turned out to be a bit of a problem .\nPhD A: Or {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: And I had one other {disfmarker} one other aspect of this which is , um , uh , uh , Jonathan Fiscus expressed primar uh y a major interest in having meetings which were all English speakers . Now he wasn't trying to shape us in terms of what we gather\nProfessor B: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: but that 's what he wanted me to show him . So I 'm giving him our , um {disfmarker} our initial meeting because he asked for all English . And I think we don't have a lot of all English meetings right now .\nProfessor B: Of all {disfmarker} all nat all native speakers .\nPhD E: Did he mean , uh {disfmarker} did he mean and non - British ?\nGrad H: Well {disfmarker}\nPhD C: The all native .\nPostdoc G: That 's what I mean , yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: Well if he meant and non - British I think we have zero .\nPostdoc G: He doesn't care . No . Eh , well , British is OK .\nPhD E: He said British was OK ?\nPostdoc G: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} Sure , sure , sure .\nProfessor B: Why ?\nGrad H: British is English ?\nPhD C: \nPostdoc G: Yeah . Different varieties of English .\nPhD C: Ooo , ooo .\n",
      "Professor B: Well , I don't {disfmarker} I don't {disfmarker} I don't think {disfmarker} if he didn't say that {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: Native speaking . Native speaking English .\nGrad H: I bet he meant native speaking American .\nPostdoc G: Yes .\nProfessor B: I bet he did .\nPhD C: American English ?\nPostdoc G: Oh , really .\nGrad H: So , why would he care ?\nPhD E: Knowing the application {disfmarker}\nPhD A: That 's {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: I remember wh I I remember a study {disfmarker}\nPhD A: I was thinking , knowing the , uh , n National Institute of Standards , it is all {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I remember a study that BBN did where they trained on {disfmarker} this was in Wall Street Journal days or something , they trained on American English and then they tested on , uh , different native speakers from different areas . And , uh , uh , the worst match was people whose native tongue was Mandarin Chinese . The second worst was British English .\nPostdoc G: That 's funny .\n",
      "Professor B: So h it 's , you know , t\nPostdoc G: Alright . And so that would make sense .\nProfessor B: the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} German was much better ,\nPhD C: Ooo , ooo .\nPostdoc G: I didn't have the context of that .\n",
      "Professor B: it was Swiss w Yeah , so it 's {disfmarker} so I think , you know , if he 's {disfmarker} if he 's thinking in terms of recognition kind of technology I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I think he would probably want , uh {vocalsound} American English ,\nPostdoc G: All America , OK .\nGrad H: I wonder if we have any .\nProfessor B: yeah . It {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} yeah , unless we 're gonna train with a whole bunch of {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: I think that the {disfmarker} Feldman 's meetings tend to be more that way , aren't they ? I mean , I sort of feel like they have {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: I think so ,\nGrad H: Maybe .\nPhD A: Yeah ,\nProfessor B: yeah .\nGrad H: Maybe .\nPhD A: mm - hmm .\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Mmm .\nGrad H: And maybe there are a few of {disfmarker} with us where it was {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nGrad H: you know , Dan wasn't there and before Jose started coming ,\n",
      "Professor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: and {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: It 's pretty tough , uh , this group . Yeah .\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD C: Mmm .\nProfessor B: So , uh , what about {disfmarker} what about people who involved in some artistic endeavor ?\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: I mean , film - making or something like that .\nPhD A: Exactly , that 's what I was {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: You 'd think like they would be {disfmarker}\nPhD D: A film - maker .\n",
      "PhD A: something where there {disfmarker} there is actually discussion where there 's no right or wrong answer but {disfmarker} but it 's a matter of opinion kind of thing . Uh , anyway , if you {disfmarker} if you have ideas {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: It 's be fun .\nGrad H: RASTA . PLP . RASTA . PLP .\nPhD D: Yes .\nGrad F: We can just discu we can just have a political discussion one day .\nPhD A: Yeah , we could {disfmarker}\nPhD E: A any department that calls itself science\n",
      "PhD D: Department .\nGrad F: Uh , I could make that pretty {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Well , like computer science .\nPhD D: Computer sci\nGrad H: That {disfmarker}\nPostdoc G: We could get Julia Child . I know .\nPhD A: I 'm {disfmarker} I 'm actually serious\nGrad H: That 's {disfmarker}\nPhD A: because , uh , you know , we have the set up here\nGrad H: Got a ticket .\nProfessor B: Yeah , I know you are .\n",
      "PhD A: and {disfmarker} and that {disfmarker} that has a chance to give us some very interesting fun data . So if anyone has ideas ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPhD A: if you know any groups that are m you know ,\nProfessor B: Yeah .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nGrad H: Well I had asked some {disfmarker} some of the students at the business school .\nPhD A: student groups c like clubs , things like that .\nGrad F: I know {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I could {disfmarker}\nPhD A: Not {disfmarker} not {disfmarker}\n",
      "Professor B: Put a little ad up saying , \" come here and argue \" .\nPhD A: Yeah . \" If you 're really angry at someone use our conference room . \"\nGrad H: The Business school . Uh , the business school might be good . I actually spoke with some students up there\nPhD A: Oh , OK .\nGrad H: and they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they expressed willingness back when they thought they would be doing more stuff with speech .\nPhD A: Really .\nGrad H: But when they lost interest in speech they also {pause} stopped answering my email about other stuff , so .\nPhD D: Hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Or people who are really h\nProfessor B: They could have a discussion about te\nGrad F: I {disfmarker}\nGrad H: We should probably bleep that out .\nProfessor B: about {disfmarker} about tax cuts or something .\nGrad F: I heard that at Cal Tech they have a special room {disfmarker} someone said that they had a special room to get all your frustrations out that you can go to and like throw things and break things .\nProfessor B: Yeah , now that is not actually what we {disfmarker}\nGrad F: So we can like post a {disfmarker}\n",
      "Grad H: Th - that 's not what we want .\nGrad F: No , not to that extent\nPhD A: Well , far field mikes can pick up where they threw stuff on the wall .\nGrad F: but , um . Yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , but we don't want them to throw the far field mikes is the thing .\nPhD A: Oh . {vocalsound} Yeah , right .\nGrad H: That 's right .\nPhD D: The fa\nGrad F: Yeah .\nPhD D:  \nGrad H: \" Please throw everything in that direction . \"\nProfessor B: Yeah . Anyway .\n",
      "Grad H: Padded cell .\nPostdoc G: It 'd be fun to get like a {disfmarker} a p visit from the {disfmarker}\nGrad H: There was a dorm room at Tech that , uh , someone had coated the walls and the ceiling , and , uh , the floor with mattresses .\nGrad F: Mmm .\nGrad H: The entire room .\nProfessor B: I had as my fourth thing here processing of wave forms .\nPostdoc G: Yeah .\nProfessor B: What did we mean by that ? Remember @ @ ?\nGrad H: Uh , Liz wanted to talk about methods of improving accuracy by doing pre - processing .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Pre - processing .\nPhD A: Well I think that {disfmarker} that was just sort of {disfmarker} I I already asked Thilo\nProfessor B: Oh , you already did that .\n",
      "PhD A: but that , um , it would be helpful if I can stay in the loop somehow with , um , people who are doing any kind of post - processing , whether it 's to separate speakers or to improve the signal - to - noise ratio , or both , um , that we can sort of try out as we 're running recognition . Um , so , i is that {disfmarker} Who else is work I guess Dan Ellis and you\nPhD C: Dan , yeah .\nProfessor B: Yeah , and Dave uh {pause} Gel - Gelbart again ,\nGrad H: Yep .\nPhD A: and Dave .\nPhD C: Yep .\n",
      "PhD A: OK .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nProfessor B: he 's {disfmarker} he 's interested in {disfmarker} in fact we 're look starting to look at some echo cancellation kind of things .\nPhD A: OK .\nProfessor B: Which uh {disfmarker}\nGrad H: I am not sure how much that 's an issue with the close talking mikes ,\nProfessor B: Hmm ?\nGrad H: but who knows ?\nProfessor B: Well , let 's {disfmarker} w i isn't that what {disfmarker} what you want {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD A: I don't know . I 'm bad {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: t No , so {disfmarker} No , i w wha what you {disfmarker} what you want {disfmarker} when you 're saying improving the wave form you want the close talking microphone to be better .\nPhD A: It 's like {disfmarker} {comment} {vocalsound} like {disfmarker}\nProfessor B: Right ?\nGrad H: Right .\n",
      "Professor B: And the question is to w to what extent is it getting hurt by , uh {disfmarker} by any room acoustics or is it just {disfmarker} uh , given that it 's close it 's not a problem ?\nPhD A: It doesn't seem like big room acoustics problems to my ear\nProfessor B: Uh {disfmarker}\nPhD A: but I 'm not an expert . It seems like a problem with cross - talk .\nProfessor B: OK , so it 's {disfmarker}\nPhD C: Yeah .\n",
      "Grad H: e I bet with the lapel mike there 's plenty , uh , room acoustic\nPhD A: That {disfmarker} that may be true .\nGrad H: but I I think the rest is cross - talk .\nPhD A: But I don't know how good it can get either by those {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} those methods {disfmarker}\nGrad H: Yeah .\nPhD A: That 's true .\nProfessor B: OK .\nGrad H: So I {disfmarker} I think it 's just ,\nPhD A: Oh , I don't know .\n",
      "Grad H: yeah , what you said , cross - talk .\nPhD A: All I meant is just that as sort of {disfmarker} as this pipeline of research is going on we 're also experimenting with different ASR , uh , techniques .\nGrad H: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And so it 'd be w good to know about it .\nPhD E: So the problem is like , uh , on the microphone of somebody who 's not talking they 're picking up signals from other people {comment} and that 's {vocalsound} causing problems ?\n",
      "PhD A: R right , although if they 're not talking , using the {disfmarker} the inhouse transcriptions , were sort of O K because the t no one transcribed any words there and we throw it out .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: But if they 're talking at all and they 're not talking the whole time , so you get some speech and then a \" mm - hmm \" , and some more speech , so that whole thing is one chunk . And the person in the middle who said only a little bit is picking up the speech around it , that 's where it 's a big problem .\n",
      "Postdoc G: You know , this does like seem like it would relate to some of what Jose 's been working on as well , the encoding of the {disfmarker}\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: And {disfmarker} and he also , he was {disfmarker}\nPhD A: The energy ,\nPhD D: Yeah ,\nPhD A: right . Exactly .\nPhD D: energy .\n",
      "Postdoc G: I was t I was trying to remember , you have this interface where you {disfmarker} i you ha you showed us one time on your laptop that you {disfmarker} you had different visual displays as speech and nonspeech events .\n",
      "PhD D: Yeah , c Yeah . May {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I only display the different colors for the different situation . But , eh , for me and for my problems , is uh {disfmarker} is enough . Because , eh , it 's possible , eh , eh , in a simp sample view , uh , to , nnn , to compare with c with the segment , the {disfmarker} the kind of assessment what happened with the {disfmarker} the different parameters . And only with a different bands of color for the , uh , few situation , eh , I consider for acoustic event is enough to @ @ .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD D: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I see that , eh , you are considering now , eh , a very sophisticated , eh , ehm , eh , @ @ {comment} set of , eh , graphic s eh , eh , ehm , si symbols to {disfmarker} to transcribe . No ? Because , uh , before , you {disfmarker} you are talking about the {disfmarker} the possibility to include in the Transcriber program eh , um , a set of symbols , of graphic symbol to {disfmarker} t to mark the different situations during the transcription\n",
      "Postdoc G: Oh , I w Uh - huh .\nPhD D: during the transcription . No ?\nPostdoc G: Well , you 're saying {disfmarker} So , uh , symbols for differences between laugh , and sigh , and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and slam the door and stuff ?\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah , yeah . The s the symbols , you {disfmarker} you talk of before .\nPostdoc G: Or some other kind of thing ?\nPhD D: No ? To {disfmarker} to mark {disfmarker}\n",
      "Postdoc G: Well , I wouldn't say {vocalsound} symbols so much . The {disfmarker} the main change that I {disfmarker} that I see in the interface is {disfmarker} is just that we 'll be able to more finely c uh , time things .\nPhD D: Yeah . Yeah .\nPostdoc G: But I {disfmarker} I also st there was another aspect of your work that I was thinking about when I was talking to you\nPhD A: Hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: which is that it sounded to me , Liz , as though you {disfmarker} and , uh , maybe I didn't q understand this , but it sounded to me as though part of the analysis that you 're doing involves taking segments which are of a particular type and putting them together .\nPhD D: Yeah .\nPostdoc G: And th so if you have like a p a s you know , speech from one speaker , {pause} then you cut out the part that 's not that speaker ,\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "Postdoc G: and you combine segments from {pause} that same speaker to {disfmarker} {comment} and run them through the recognizer . Is that {pause} right ?\nPhD A: Well we try to find as close of start and end time of {disfmarker} as we can to the speech from an individual speaker ,\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: because then we {disfmarker} we 're more guaranteed that the recognizer will {disfmarker} for the forced alignment which is just to give us the time boundaries , because from those time boundaries then the plan is to compute prosodic features .\n",
      "Postdoc G: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: And the sort of more space you have that isn't the thing you 're trying to align the more errors we have . Um , so , you know , that {disfmarker} that {disfmarker} it would help to have either pre - processing of a signal that creates very good signal - to - noise ratio ,\nPostdoc G: Mm - hmm . Cuz i OK .\n",
      "PhD A: which I don't know how possible this is for the lapel , um , or to have very {disfmarker} to have closer , {vocalsound} um , time {disfmarker} you know , synch times , basically , around the speech that gets transcribed in it , or both . And it 's just sort of a open world right now of exploring that . So I just wanted to {pause} see , you know , on the transcribing end from here things look good . Uh , the IBM one is more {disfmarker} it 's an open question right now . And then the issue of like global processing of some signal and then , you know , before we chop it up is {disfmarker} is yet another way we can improve things in that .\n",
      "PhD E: What about increasing the flexibility of the alignment ?\nPostdoc G: OK .\nPhD E: Do you remember that thing that Michael Finka did ?\nPhD A: Mm - hmm .\nPhD E: that experiment he did a while back ?\nPhD A: Right . You can , um {disfmarker}  The problem is just that the acoustic {disfmarker} when the signal - to - noise ratio is too low , um , you {disfmarker} you 'll get , a uh {disfmarker} an alignment with the wrong duration pattern or it {disfmarker}\n",
      "PhD E: Oh , so that 's the problem , is the {disfmarker} the signal - to - noise ratio .\nPhD A: Yeah . It 's not the fact that you have like {disfmarker} I mean , what he did is allow you to have , uh , words that were in another segment move over to the {disfmarker} at the edges of {disfmarker} of segmentations .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm . Or even words inserted that weren't {disfmarker} weren't there .\n",
      "PhD A: Right , things {disfmarker} things near the boundaries where if you got your alignment wrong {disfmarker}\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\nPhD A: cuz what they had done there is align and then chop .\nPhD E: Mm - hmm .\n",
      "PhD A: Um , and this problem is a little bit j more global . It 's that there are problems even in inside the alignments , uh , because of the fact that there 's enough acoustic signal there t for the recognizer to {disfmarker} to eat , {vocalsound} as part of a word . And it tends to do that . S So , uh ,\nPhD D: Yeah .\n"
    ],
    "length": 26417,
    "hardness": null,
    "role": null
  }
]