Hi the 650 Timberline is my second grill! I would of bought the 850. But I’m only grilling for two people most of the time. The only thing I don’t like about this 650 is the bent shelf you can buy after. Also the handle gets hot after three hours of cooking in the sun. The Handle position takes away space from the bent shelf. If the handle for the grill was on the side. Being perpendicular this would eliminate the space robbing from the bent shelf.