I have to give these a two star because, I order firm, and the pillows are far from being firm. If some company could bring back pillows from 50s to the 80s, I believe we would have a homerun. Soft pillows that wear down after a few days aren't my style. I like firm pillows ( for me firm is a hard type material but has a touch of flexible fibers) in any regard I caulk it up to modern times.