# The Way According To Zvi

Zvi Mowshowitz is an influential figure in the Rationalist community. I won’t go into the details, but if you haven’t heard of him or his writing, look him up.

Some of my favorite pieces of his are [Slack](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/09/30/slack/), [More Dakka](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/12/02/more-dakka/), and [On Car Seats As Contraception](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-car-seats-as-contraception).

Throughout his posts, he sometimes obliquely references what he calls The Way. This is what Rationality means to Zvi, and (from what I can tell) his understanding of the highest standard to which a person can be held.

After reading enough of his writing (and meeting him in person at LessOnline), I figured there might be something valuable in putting together the scattered mentions that Zvi has made of The Way, to better understand what he thinks of it.

*(This is inside-baseball rationality, and quite long. You’re welcome to skip it if you’re not interested.)*

Directly Addressing The Way
===========================

In his post [Why Rationality](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/04/08/why-rationality/), Zvi writes:

> The Way is not for everyone. It is for those who wish to seek it, and for those who wish it. It is not a universal path that everyone must adopt, for it is a hard path.
> 
> It is the writer who tells the class that if you can imagine yourself doing anything other than writing, then you should write, but you should not be a writer.
> 
> It is the master who looks at the student and tells her to go home, she is not welcome here, until she persists and convinces the master otherwise.
> 
> Those of us who are here, and have come far enough along the path, are not a random sample. We were warned, or should have been, and we persisted.

Here we have a note on the nature of the way, a cautionary message for those who would pursue it: The Way is long. The Way is hard. The Way is not something that everyone can or should pursue.

In [What Is Rationalist Berkeley’s Community Culture](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/08/12/what-is-rationalist-berkleys-community-culture/), from the text:

> Unhappiness and burning out are not the way

Pretty clear.

Then, from the comments, in the midst of a discussion on what the “mission” of Rationality is, Zvi mentions:

> The Way that can be specified is not The Way

Which is a reference to various Buddhist and Zen koans, themselves pointing at the idea that some concepts can’t be clearly articulated in the language we have, so when trying to teach them we have to do our best to vaguely gesture at them and hope the student can figure it out for themselves.

I think Zvi agrees with this, but there are two pieces to the sentiment.

First, that we lack the understanding and language to specify The Way.

Second, that The Way is ever changing, ever evolving, such that even if for an instant, we *did* possess the understanding and language to specify The Way, in the next second The Way would have broadened, deepened, and become once again more than our understanding could encompass and our language could express.

Much like [Zeno](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes), we may always approach The Way, but never quite reach it.

* * *

While The Way of the Scientist is only one part of The Way, this reference from Zvi’s [Barbieheimer](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/barbiehammer-across-the-dead-reckoning) post is included for completion:

> 1.  The Way of the Scientist
> 
> How does one ‘be like Oppenheimer’ in the ways that make him effective? If you want to actually do physical things and figure things out and make real things happen, if you want to make the world better for real? You have to investigate and care about results and figure things out, you have to ask what works and what doesn’t and what causes what outcomes, not mostly care about convenience or status or power or convention or being liked. Seek out and work with the best. And when you figure something out, you tell whoever will listen.

Not The Way
===========

Zvi obliquely mentions The Way in a post about altruism and EA (which, for those who don’t know, stands for Effective Altruism, and is a cluster of people and ideas centered around doing the most good possible with the finite resources one has, as best as one can measure).

He [says](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/altruism-is-incomplete/):

> You say people gonna die. I agree. Sad. Balance is tricky. Death rate stable at 100%. We should fund further research. We should fix it. This is not The Way.

This one is difficult to interpret, especially without the full context. In the post, Zvi is making the point that having purely altruistic motives is not actually a realistic or desirable thing - people do what they do for a variety of reasons, and we should cheer and honor those who do good even though their motivations aren’t perfectly selfless.

He adds that one shouldn’t compromise one’s principles (i.e. be dishonorable or manipulative in certain ways) in the service of EA, because *we know where that road of good intentions leads*.

In the end, altruism is not, and *should not be*, an end goal. The end goal is human flourishing, and truth and beauty and all that is valuable about the universe.

To use dishonorable means to pursue an instrumental goal is not The Way.

* * *

AI is arguably the single biggest topic of conversation amongst Rationalists, and Zvi has gotten into his share of arguments with others about it. He is very much on the side of what we now call AI NotKillEveryoneism (which used to be called AI Safety, until that term was co-opted by people who think AIs being racist is the biggest problem in the field).

In a post titled [Response to Tyler Cowen's Existential risk, AI, and the inevitable turn in human history](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/response-to-tyler-cowens-existential), The Way comes up because Tyler Cower is not following it (emphasis mine):

> **At core: I think taking an attitude of fait accompli, of radical uncertainty and not attempting to predict the future or what might impact it, is not The Way,** **here or anywhere else.** Nor should we despair that there is anything we can do to change our odds of success or sculpt longer term outcomes beyond juicing economic growth and technological advancement (although in almost every case we should totally be juicing real economic growth and technological advancement).

To spare readers the long debate itself, just know that Tyler Cowen’s (a reasonably famous and influential economist and blogger) opinion on AI appears to be some mix of “we don’t know what will happen, so we shouldn’t do anything at all” and “there haven’t been enough peer-reviewed economics papers on the subject yet, so we can’t claim to know anything.” If you feel I am being uncharitable towards Tyler on the subject, I encourage you to read what he’s written.

What Zvi tells us here about The Way is that actions are always taken under uncertainty; thus uncertainty is no excuse for inaction.

Not knowing everything is no excuse for not acting to bring about a better future.

It is The Way to make the best decisions you can with the information you have. [If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/03/24/if-you-choose-not-to-decide-you-still-have-made-a-choice/)

* * *

In [Fertility Roundup #2](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/fertility-roundup-2), Zvi criticizes a bill introduced by a congressperson for its implementation details, which were very dumb:

> Needless to say, the implementation details here are not The Way to align incentives, or provide families in need with necessary help, and are needlessly controlling and cruel.

From this we gather that The Way involves aligning incentives properly, and also not being needlessly controlling and cruel. Which we probably could have guessed, but it’s nice to have things spelled out sometimes.

* * *

Another not-COVID topic in a [COVID post](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2022/08/25/covid-8-25-22-what-we-owe/) reads:

> [Guessing ‘C’ on every question is now enough to pass the New York State regents exam](https://medium.com/@newyorkteacher/guessing-c-for-every-answer-is-now-enough-to-pass-the-new-york-state-algebra-exam-93bac55b3e24). If you are going to fail to teach kids algebra, ruining their lives by then keeping them in school by force to keep not teaching them does not seem like The Way, nor did the old standards go high enough to plausibly test for functional algebra knowledge.

This one has two interpretations, depending on how sarcastic Zvi was being here.

*   If you’re already going to force kids into school, failing to teach them is not The Way
*   Forcing kids into bad schools is not The Way

Generally speaking, children actually learning is The Way, and whatever many schools are currently doing is not.

* * *

From the [debate between Jezos and Leahy](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-the-debate-between-jezos-and-leahy):

> Jezos points out that if there were dangerous physics that we do not understand, we would need to study it in order to understand and control it, drawing the parallel back to intelligence. Ignoring it is not The Way. I agree it is not The Way, you want to work towards understanding, but certainly there are experiments you might want to avoid, and forestall others from doing, if the risk was too high, until such time as you had more information.

Ignoring what is dangerous is not The Way, but going full speed ahead in Damn The Torpedoes mode is also not The Way. There is a path to be charted between reckless abandon and paralyzing caution, when dealing with the dangerous and unknown. Risks must weighed and measured; rewards must be approximated and quantified. As always, one must Do The Math.

* * *

On the [topic](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-65-i-spy-with-my-ai) of a (Windows) computer recording literally everything you do on it and providing that as context to an AI (emphasis mine):

> In any case, how much mundane utility is available?
> 
> Quite a bit. You would essentially be able to remember everything, ask the AI about everything, have it take care of increasingly complex tasks with full context, and this will improve steadily over time, and it will customize to what you care about.
> 
> **If you ignore all the obvious horrendous downsides of giving an AI this level of access to your computer, and the AI behind it is good, this is very clearly The Way.**

Things that are The Way:

*   Mundane utility - an AI with your entire computer history as context would be mighty useful; arguably the next generation of human-computer interface
*   Tradeoffs and talking price - how much utility is worth how much privacy and security?
*   Nuance and conditional statements - *If* the AI is good, and *If* you ignore the potential for loss of data and privacy and control to hackers/tech companies/the AI itself…

Things that are Not The Way:

*   Ignoring horrendous downsides

* * *

Here we have an excerpt from [Zvi’s coverage](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-51-altmans-ambition) on Sam Altman’s ambitions to build massive chip factories in the UAE, part of the ongoing story of Altman revealing himself to be, shall we say, less than trustworthy:

> The chip plan seems entirely inconsistent with both OpenAI’s claimed safety plans and theories, and with OpenAI’s non-profit mission. It looks like a very good way to make things riskier faster. You cannot both try to increase investment on hardware by orders of magnitude, and then say you need to push forward because of the risks of allowing there to be an overhang.
> 
> Or, well, you can, but we won’t believe you.
> 
> This is doubly true given where he plans to build the chips. The United States would be utterly insane to allow these new chip factories to get located in the UAE. At a minimum, we need to require ‘friend shoring’ here, and place any new capacity in safely friendly countries.
> 
> Also, frankly, [this is not The Way](https://twitter.com/sama/status/1756729885215900006) in any sense and he has to know it:
> 
> > Sam Altman: You can grind to help secure our collective future or you can write substacks about why we are going fail.
> > 
> > guerilla artfare: do you have any idea how many substacks are going to be written in response to this? DO YOU.

This is all a bit inside baseball with regards to AI, but the basic gist of it is that OpenAI, Altman’s company, promised to make safe artificial intelligences, and then subsequently decided to proceed to do things that are very unsafe.

That is not The Way.

Additionally, we have Altman on Twitter creating a false dichotomy, very Dial of Progress style, where you’re either Full Speed Ahead on everything or an enemy of humanity, choose one.

That is also not The Way. The Way involves nuance, and specific details, and talking price when one should be talking price. The path forward for AI should not be Full Speed Ahead, and it also shouldn’t be Shut It All Down.

* * *

Out of non-COVID topics in a [COVID post](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/covid-81822-cdc-admits-mistakes), we have:

> Paper claims that often used random number generators that *look* fine are sufficiently biased [that they mess up chemical Monty Carlo simulations](https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/1559637411143065602). Proposed solution is to test a source of randomness by simulating well-understood results via Monty Carlo simulation to see if you get the right answer. Which I love because that answer seems like it *has* to not be The Way but I suppose it would work.

This one is interesting, mostly because of just how offhand the reference to The Way is. “Testing a thing by doing a lot of extra work to compare it to known results experimentally when you really *ought* to be able to do this with math and theory is not The Way” hardly rolls off the tongue.

Here’s what I take from this: if something works, that’s great, but it’s not *necessarily* The Way. There are many ways to get a thing done, many paths that will succeed in getting from point A to point B, but The Way is - for lack of more descriptive language - elegant. Efficient. It isn’t necessarily the shortest path in existence, but it *is* the shortest path you can actually take, given the real constraints you face.

* * *

From [AI #3](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-3), on the topic of AI:

> In addition to worries about world government or, worse, regulations, there are worries that some people will choose violence.
> 
> I take this worry seriously enough to say, once more: Do not choose violence.
> 
> It is not The Way. It will only make things worse.

This one is super clear, not a lot I need to add.

Violence is not The Way.

Reasoning Things Out is The Way
===============================

In [AI #61](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-61-meta-trouble), Zvi contrasts several approaches to AI Notkilleveryoneism, noting that although he disagrees with Bryan Johnson, Johnson is at least doing things like using respect and nuance and logic and cost-benefit calculations:

> …Bryan Johnson here (at least starting at the linked clip) takes the role I wish the non-worried would more often take, explaining a logical position that benefits of proceeding exceed costs and trying to respectfully explain nuanced considerations. I disagree with Bryan Johnson’s threat model and expected technological path, so we reach different conclusions, but yes, this is The Way.

Following The Way does not mean always agreeing with Zvi. It means adding to the discourse by way of genuine reasoning, extending respect and empathy to the other side, and holding space for nuance.

* * *

In a [post](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LLRtjkvh9AackwuNB/on-a-list-of-lethalities) detailing the specifics of how a sufficiently powerful AI gets everyone killed, Zvi explicitly states that he is posting his explicit reasoning because actually reasoning things out is The Way (emphasis mine):

> Rather than put the resulting summary results at the bottom, I’m going to put them at the top where they’ll actually get read, then share my individual reasoning afterwards because **actually reasoning this stuff out out loud seems like The Way**.

Two parts of The Way are being referenced here.

One is that a person following the way should do the work of actually reasoning things out. If necessary or helpful, that reasoning should be made explicit and/or written down.

The other can be seen by how Zvi is doing this reasoning out loud and in public.

When possible, open oneself up to being corrected. Be willing to be wrong in public, so long as the consequence of being wrong in public is survivable. One may feel shame, but it is more important to be right than to spare one’s pride.

Reasoning difficult things out in public also provides an example to others. It demonstrates that you are acting in good faith, not cheating or skipping steps or hiding anything. It is a signal that you are willing to engage on the merits of an idea and cooperate to find the truth.

* * *

Zvi [loves it](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/on-autogpt) when people post detailed, in-depth explanations of when they disagree with him:

> What does it mean to be an agent? Would an improved actually viable version of AutoGPT be an agent in the true sense?
> 
> [Sarah Constantin says no, in an excellent post explaining at length why she is not a doomer](https://sarahconstantin.substack.com/p/why-i-am-not-an-ai-doomer). I’d love for more people who disagree with me about things to be writing posts like this one. It is The Way.

When it comes to important topics (preferably every topic, but we’ll settle for the important ones), claiming that one “feels differently” or “agrees to disagree” is not sufficient. Feelings are not facts, nor are they arguments, reasons, or justifications.

Disagreement itself is great; if everyone had the same opinion all the time, then everyone would be wrong at some point, and it would be catastrophic. But disagreement should be done through careful thinking, writing out one’s reasoning and the reasons why one believes what they believe, and ideally making the information public (where possible).

To willingly put one’s reasoning out there is to be willing to be criticized and corrected - but how else does anyone learn?

Risking *looking* stupid and wrong in order to *become* less stupid and wrong is The Way.

* * *

Some of Zvi’s most clear expressions of The Way involve someone disagreeing with him, but following The Way while doing so.

(This stands in stark contrast to the many, many people Zvi finds on Twitter/X that disagree with him that are not Worthy Opponents and do not follow The Way.)

Emphasis mine:

> While I have strong disagreements with Leopold, only some of which I detail here, and I especially believe he is dangerously wrong and overly optimistic about alignment, existential risks and loss of control in ways that are highly load bearing, causing potential sign errors in interventions, and also I worry that the new AGI fund may make our situation worse rather than better, I want to most of all say: Thank you.
> 
> **Leopold has shown great courage. He stands up for what he believes in even at great personal cost. He has been willing to express views very different from those around him, when everything around him was trying to get him not to do that. He has thought long and hard about issues very hard to think long and hard about, and is obviously wicked smart. By writing down, in great detail, what he actually believes, he allows us to compare notes and arguments, and to move forward. This is The Way.**

Zvi adds:

> I am very happy Leopold wrote down what he actually believes and was highly concrete about it. This is The Way. And yes, one big danger is that this could make it difficult for Leopold to change his mind when the situation changes or he hears better arguments or thinks more. It is good that he is noticing that too.

One of the biggest problems, when people disagree about complicated issues, is identifying exactly *what* the disagreement is about. Writing down what one believes helps enormously in that regard.

Additionally, it shows courage, because once you’ve written down and published what you believe, people can point to it. They can quote you. You can’t retreat behind the Bailey anymore. It’s out there.

Which is why writing down what you believe and publishing it is The Way. If you’re wrong, at least you’re wrong honestly and in public.

The Way Includes Fun
====================

A non-COVID topic from a [COVID post](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/covid-101322-just-the-facts):

> ### Obvious Nonsense: Florida Man Commissions ‘Study’
> 
> I could decide not to indulge this at all. [That would normally be The Way](https://xkcd.com/386/), but I decided: Not this time. Let’s have a little fun with this one.

This one is neat, because it neatly illustrates one of Zvi’s other concepts, [Slack](https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/09/30/slack/). Normally, it is The Way to not engage with Obvious Nonsense, because adding fuel to a fire does indeed fail to put it out.

But sometimes, if you feel like it or just want to have a bit of fun, The Way can include engaging with Obvious Nonsense. The Way can include contradictions to The Way, because it is not The Way to be *so* efficient, *so* precise, that there is zero room for fun or digression or the occasional dunk on Obvious Nonsense.

The Way includes Slack. It includes fun and joy and the occasional indulgence. It would not be The Way if it didn’t.

* * *

The Way does involve humor.

Google’s AI [provides many such cases](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-66-oh-to-be-less-online), for instance:

> I would have thought this one was better with Rule of Three, but no, this is The Way:
> 
> ![](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ff88a3464-8866-4402-8073-16eb71965b82_892x914.png)

* * *

In [Monthly Roundup #24](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/monthly-roundup-24-november-2024?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=573100&post_id=151606281&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1cyiok&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email):

> [Here is an amazing clip I saw watching College Gameday this weekend](https://x.com/scottlincicome/status/1857955412777082903). This is The Way. It also is starting to be an excellent opportunity. According to this explanation, you can hand the kick to someone else, and the first 300 people to show up get a raffle ticket, and getting there at 3am was good enough this time to get into the raffle. And even if you end up with the standard payout next week, we’re talking at least $125,000. You might well get a lot more. So being the one who can actually make the kick starts to look really good, and also the hourly on being in the raffle is looking good as well.

Mundane Utility Is The Way
==========================

From [AI #10](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-10-code-interpreter-and-george), we have Zvi indicate how he thinks LLMs will be used in the future (emphasis mine):

> [AskData.co ($$$) is exactly the kind of thing I expect to see rapidly advance](https://twitter.com/SteveMoraco/status/1651292545413169153). The linked thread talks about how to layer on really quite a lot of tokens before every single interaction, including framing everything in the past tense as a description of a past interaction that went perfectly (to invoke auto-complete and match the web). Months of fine tuning a massive prompt to get it to do what the author wants it to do, as reliably as possible. **Seems clearly like it will eventually be The Way, if you have enough use for the resulting configuration.**

Pretty straightforward advice on using an LLM like ChatGPT, especially at the link.

From [AI #12](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-12-the-quest-for-sane-regulations), we have this:

> [All right, seriously, this ad for Coke is straight up amazing, watch it](https://twitter.com/heyBarsee/status/1658015653071052803). Built using large amounts of Stable Diffusion, clearly combined with normal production methods. This, at least for now, is The Way.

Can confirm that the ad is actually fantastic. Consider that this likely wouldn’t have been possible, or at least would have taken far more work, without the AI image models.

What we can add to our understanding of The Way from these mentions is that The Way is practical. It is The Way to use the tools we have to their utmost potential to accomplish our goals. It is The Way to explore the new possibility frontiers created by new technologies, to create new art and science and beauty and truth.

* * *

Very briefly, Zvi highlights a specific technique use case in [AI # 41](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-41-bring-in-the-other-gemini):

> [How to generate photorealistic images of a particular face](https://twitter.com/Aella_Girl/status/1731500409246601330)? \[…\] The original thread says use SDXL for free images, image-to-image for consistent face/body, in-paint to fix errors and ControlNet to pose the model. A response suggests using [@imgn_ai](https://twitter.com/imgn_ai), many point out that LoRa is The Way. There are links to [these](https://t.co/kY36SFvvOI) [YouTube tutorials](https://t.co/vXyUCIlmDT) [including ControlNet](https://t.co/thgqsBYZ0I).

LoRA is Low-Rank Adaptation, a way to train finished neural nets to learn new things. Here Zvi is passing along the advice of others, where a question has been asked and answered, The Way pointed to by those with the knowledge to do said pointing.

At every given juncture, for every question, The Way exists, even if we can’t find it.

* * *

With regards to mundane utility, from [AI #44](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-44-copyright-confrontation):

> Where are all the highly specialized LLMs? Where are the improved fine-tuning techniques that let us create one for ourselves in quirky fashion? Where are the game and VR experiences that don’t suck? Build something unique that people want to use, that meets what customers need. You know this in other contexts. It is The Way.

Here Zvi is reminding people (especially the open source community) that their role is not to make gigantic new LLMs, because open source has never been about $100 million dollar compute clusters. Instead they should be focused on creating mundane utility for everyone.

The Way includes [comparative advantage](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/comparativeadvantage.asp). Use your time and money and effort and resources to accomplish as much as you can, by leveraging your own unique position and affordances.

* * *

From [AI #71](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-71-farewell-to-chevron?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=573100&post_id=146059453&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1cyiok&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email):

> [Pixel 9 to include a feature called ‘Pixel Screenshots.](https://x.com/rowancheung/status/1808350514549047343)’ Unlike Microsoft’s ‘always on and saving everything in plaintext,’ here you choose to take the screenshots. This seems like The Way.

* * *

In [monthly roundup #16](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/monthly-roundup-16-march-2024):

> So you can imagine my ‘no way, you’re kidding’ smile when I saw that the old Craig Ferguson slot was going to Taylor Tomlinson to do a show called After Midnight. Perfection.
> 
> And it has delivered on its promise. Forty minutes of comedians improvising jokes and riffing off each other every night, such a great format. I presume it will only get better. This is The Way.

Delivering on promises, whether implicit or explicitly made, is The Way. So is achieving to one’s maximal potential, as Tomlinson is doing.

So is producing good entertainment.

You don’t have to be an AI Engineer to follow The Way. It’s not just for people who publish blog posts. There is a The Way for everyone, based on their own career and passions and abilities.

* * *

From [AI #73](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-73-openly-evil-ai):

> [Arvind Narayanan offers thoughts on what went wrong with generative AI](https://x.com/random_walker/status/1813231384032649573) from a business perspective. In his view, OpenAI and Anthropic forgot to turn their models into something people want, but are fixing that now, while Google and Microsoft rushed forward instead of taking time to get it right, whereas Apple took the time.
> 
> I don’t see it that way, nor do Microsoft and Google (or OpenAI or Anthropic) shareholders. For OpenAI and Anthropic, yes they are focused on the model, because they understand that pushing quickly to revenue by focusing on products now is not The Way for them, given they lack the connections of the big tech companies.
> 
> If you ensure your models are smart, suddenly you can do anything you want. Artifacts for Claude likely were created remarkably quickly. We are starting to get various integrations and features now because now is when they are ready.

This is a bit of a small point about business practices, but Zvi is making the case that, with current AI, leading labs are better off creating great AIs and trusting that the profits will come later.

This ties into how universal intelligence truly is as a commodity - once you’ve got a good enough AI, uses for it will emerge.

File this under mundane utility.

* * *

Zvi talks about the problems of woke AI here, specifically about Google’s image model that was so diverse and inclusive it refused to generate scenes with all-white people in them, including scenes of vikings and Nazis.

> [Paul Graham did propose one possible solution?](https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1762206961771139417)
> 
> > Paul Graham: If you went out and found the group in society whose views most closely matched Gemini's, you'd be pretty shocked. It would be something like Oberlin undergrads. Which would seem an insane reference point to choose if you were choosing one deliberately.
> > 
> > Oddly enough, this exercise suggests a way to solve the otherwise possibly intractable problem of what an AI's politics should be. Let the user choose what they want the reference group to be, and they can pick Oberlin undergrads or Freedom Caucus or whatever.
> > 
> > Eliezer Yudkowsky: I'm not sure it's a good thing if humanity ends up with everyone living in their own separate tiny bubbles.
> > 
> > Gab.ai: This is exactly how http://Gab.ai works.
> 
> I do not think this is The Way, because of the bubble problem. Nor do I think that solution would satisfy that many of the bubbles. However, I do think that if you go to the trouble of saying ‘respond as if you are an X’ then it should do so, which can also be used to understand other perspectives. If some people use that all the time, I don’t like it, but I don’t think it is our place to stop people from doing it.

The media and social media landscapes are already quite fractured, and people spend plenty of time in their own bubbles where everyone agrees with their political views. Making the problem worse via AI is not The Way.

On the other hand, mundane utility and (mostly) doing what the user asks for is The Way for a piece of technology/product to function.

These must be balanced. The Way is not easy.

Improving Human Lives On The Margin Is The Way
==============================================

When discussing housing in the [Housing and Transit Roundup #4](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/housing-and-transit-roundup-4), Zvi complements two cities that are removing barriers to building housing:

> [Washington State senate votes 49-0 to exempt housing projects from environmental review.](https://twitter.com/Nowooski/status/1632920391382618112) [And more](https://twitter.com/AlecStapp/status/1633592580276379648). This is The Way

and

> Then, something very interesting happened. [London Breed, mayor of San Francisco, issued an array of new housing rules.](https://twitter.com/anniefryman/status/1648447844410626050)
> 
> > Fry: First off, (1) it removes most Conditional Use and mandatory public hearing requirements. You might be wondering: what is Conditional Use? So... SF has long had a \*legal requirement\* that many types of housing go through dramatic, drawn-out, nonsensical public hearings.
> > 
> > Mayor Breed's legislation abolishes Conditional Use and mandatory public hearings for most types of housing and new construction. (!!!!!!)
> > 
> > …
> 
> This is The Way. Those are certainly far from all of San Francisco’s barriers to building housing. They are still a giant set of leaps forward towards the ability to build housing.
> 
> I don’t have a good sense of what percentage of the barriers this constitutes, or how much it helps to get rid of some but far from all of the veto points. My guess is this will be a real yet modest gain.

This gets to a point that Zvi has brought up before, especially in contrast to the somewhat esoteric and abstract nature of AI Notkilleveryoneism. *Improving human lives on the margin, today, in physical reality, is The Way.* Don’t wait for the AI to fix things, or for the Glorious Transhuman Future. Make life better, in every way you can, now.

*(Of course, there’s another conversation to be had about the specifics of land-use regulations and barriers to building housing, and how modern America has made building housing much harder than it needs to be, and how this contributes to higher rents and worse lives for everyone. But that’s not the subject of this post.)*

Doing the Thing, as Zvi puts it, or making it easier for others to Do the Thing, is The Way. The US needs more housing, so contributing to getting more housing built (whether making it easier politically or by physically building it) is currently The Way.

* * *

From [AI #3](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-3):

> [This is The Way](https://twitter.com/sama/status/1631394688384270336), except it isn’t weird.
> 
> ![](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F90451573-3ef7-4cfb-87bb-bb014be67438_882x262.png)
> 
> Only weird thing about the bullet to polite to bullet pipeline is that we haven’t been able to automate it until now.
> 
> This is what politeness *has always been.* You want ‘butter → here’ so you say ‘Would you please pass the butter?’ and then they notice you are police and translate it to ‘butter → here’ and then they pass the butter.
> 
> We’d all love a universal translator where you say ‘butter’ and they hear ‘please pass the butter,’ and even better they hear ‘butter’ except also it counts as polite somehow.

Politeness, the social glue of couching one’s words and ideas in a form that registers as non-offensive to the listener, is a *cost* that we all pay. It is extra time and cycles and brainpower spent on something that has nothing to do with actually accomplishing The Task or The Mission.

It’s vital, of course, which is why we all do it, but here Zvi’s pointing out that this cost we’re all paying is for the first time *automatable*, which would spare time and cycles and energy and brainpower for more important things.

Freeing humans from paying these sorts of costs is The Way.

* * *

In [AI #34](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-34-chipping-away-at-chip-exports), Zvi talks about Marc Andreesen’s techno-optimist manifesto, commenting on Silicon Valley types (emphasis mine):

> Also, sure, there are a bunch of them who really don’t want us all to die and have noticed that one might be up in the air, another highly overlapping bunch of them think maybe doing good things for people is good, and on the flip side **others think that building cool stuff is The Way even if it would look to a normal person like the particular cool stuff might actually go badly up to and including getting everyone killed.** They are people, and contain multitudes.

Here we see that there is an attitude in Silicon Valley that building cool stuff is The Way. I think for the most part Zvi agrees with this - building cool stuff and making reality better for actual human beings is, indeed, The Way - it’s just that there is a [group of people who seem willfully blind](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/the-dial-of-progress) to the one case where building cool stuff happens to end the human species.

* * *

[Speaking](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-57-all-the-ai-news-thats-fit-to) of proposed legislation in California that deals with holding AI companies liable for the harms of their AIs:

> Yes, imposing those rules would harm the AI industry’s growth and ‘innovation.’ Silicon Valley has a long history of having part of their advantage be regulatory arbitrage, such as with Uber. The laws on taxis were dumb, so Uber flagrantly broke the law and then dared anyone to enforce it. In that case, it worked out, because the laws were dumb. But in general, this is not The Way, instead you write good laws.

Writing good laws is The Way. Unfortunately I don’t see a whole lot of hope for this part of The Way. Congresses, whether state or federal, are not incentivized to write good laws.

More generally, while The Way absolutely includes iterating, making mistakes and fixing them and generally being less wrong over time, The Way *does* happen to include getting it right the first time. Much suffering and inefficiency and waste can be avoided, if one can find The Way to do things the first time around.

Updating Based On Evidence Is The Way
=====================================

[AI #19](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-19-hofstadter-sutskever-leike) gives us a look at Douglas Hofstadter coming face-to-face with the progress that AI has made and being very sad and scared about what it means for the future. What Hofstadter does *not* do, however, is shy away from the implications he doesn’t like, deny the premise, rationalize or fool himself. As Zvi puts it,

> …mad respect for Hofstadter for looking the implications directly in the face and being clear about his uncertainty. This is The Way.

As Feynman said, you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. Douglas Hofstadter did not fool himself, and that is The Way.

* * *

Sometimes we have a straightforward example of someone following The Way, as Victor Taelin did in [AI #59](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-59-model-updates).

> Major kudos to Victor Taelin. [This is The Way](https://twitter.com/VictorTaelin/status/1777049193489572064).

What did Victor do?

He posed a challenge: a specific problem he did not believe that LLMs could solve. He posed it publicly and honestly, not prevaricating or flinching from the implications. He even posted a $10k prize for anyone who could prove him wrong and answer the challenge.

> Then things got more interesting. This was not all talk. Let’s go.
> 
> > Victor Taelin: A::B Prompting Challenge: $10k to prove me wrong!
> > 
> > \# CHALLENGE
> > 
> > Develop an AI prompt that solves random 12-token instances of the A::B problem (defined in the quoted tweet), with 90%+ success rate.

And then?

He was proven wrong. So he posted that he was proven wrong publicly and paid the money, updating his beliefs and changing his mind as the evidence came in.

> And then, about a day later, he did made good, paying out and admitting he was wrong.
> 
> > Victor Taelin: I \*WAS\* WRONG - $10K CLAIMED!
> > 
> > …
> > 
> > \## How do I stand?
> > 
> > Corrected! My initial claim was absolutely WRONG - for which I apologize. I doubted the GPT architecture would be able to solve certain problems which it, with no margin for doubt, solved. Does that prove GPTs will cure Cancer? No. But it does prove me wrong!
> 
> Excellent all around. Again, this is The Way.
> 
> I wish more of the claims that mattered were this tangible and easy to put to the test. Alas, in many cases, there is no similar objective test. Nor do I expect most people who proudly assert things similar to Victor’s motivating claim to update much on this, even if it comes to their attention. Still, we do what we can.

One does not become less wrong by keeping one’s beliefs safe and hidden. One rids oneself of erroneous beliefs by putting them to the test, in the real world, with real stakes. That is The Way. Victor didn’t flinch from being proven wrong; he didn’t try to invent excuses in advance as to how people might pass his challenge without proving him wrong. He just issued the challenge, and accepted the results.

* * *

> As always this is The Way, [Neel Nanda congratulating Dashiell Stander](https://x.com/NeelNanda5/status/1802503234847682931), who [showed Nanda was wrong about the learned algorithm for arbitrary group composition](https://t.co/zP9gFw7XPU).

Nanda here publicly admits they were wrong and congratulates the person who proved it. Full marks all around - we’re trying to get at the truth, in science, and in that endeavor being proven wrong means humanity is one step closer to said truth.

Being able to put aside one’s pride and publicly admit when one is wrong is hard, and yet it is The Way.

* * *

In [AI #7](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-7-free-agency), Zvi comments on some podcasts interviewing Eliezer Yudkowsky, who (if you didn’t know) is more or less the founder of the Rationalist movement. The subjects of the podcasts were AI, and this is Yudkowsky’s specialty.

When talking about the podcast by Dwarkesh Patel, we get this (emphasis mine):

> As Eliezer says, he fears it may be ‘for advanced users.’ That is certainly fair. He is not shy *at all* about making crazy-sounding claims when he believes them. He makes great jokes. He does not hide his emotions, or exactly how stupid he thinks was the latest claim. In some cases his answers are not so convincing, in others he *absolutely demolishes* Dwarkesh’s position, such as on the very central question of whether AIs taking over would be a ‘wild’ result or simply the natural next step one would expect on priors, just past the three hour mark. **And then Dwarkesh does exactly the right thing, and recognize this. This is The Way.**

Updated your beliefs is hard, especially in real time, especially with an audience. Dwarkesh does, and is commended for it.

Then we get the comment on Yudkowsky’s side of things:

> This whole approach to podcast guesting, I believe, is also The Way. Both you adapt to the situation you are in and the opportunity presented, and you keep running experiments with different approaches and generate differently useful outputs and keep updating. Mostly you make mistakes on the side of being too much yourself, too direct and open, too inside, having too much fun. Find the lines, then maybe pull back a tiny bit next time and maybe don’t.

This follows the theme of rationality specifically and empiricism in general. Do experiments. Test hypothesis. Update your own beliefs and world models based on the results. Iterate. Keep iterating.

The Way Is Not Static
=====================

From [AI #31](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-31-it-can-do-what-now):

> [Harvard Business Review’s Elisa Farri offers standard boilerplate](https://hbr.org/2023/09/good-judgment-is-a-competitive-advantage-in-the-age-of-ai) of how humans and AI need to work together to make good decisions, via the humans showing careful judgment throughout. For now, that is indeed The Way. Such takes are not prepared for when it stops being The Way.

The lesson here is not about how to use AI; it’s about how The Way changes over time. The Way is not static, because reality is not static.

If The Way is a path from where we are on a map to where we want to be, then The Way will change as the map changes. Because the [map should reflect the territory](https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/map-and-territory) and the territory is constantly changing, The Way is constantly changing.

* * *

Zvi’s interest in games shows up in [AI #54](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-54-clauding-along) (emphasis mine):

> [The Promenade](https://twitter.com/npceo_/status/1763384588796334412), an AI RPG in alpha right now, with the tagline ‘what if Character.ai was an RPG?’ crossed with a social network. Each day is a new chapter in a new world, the winner of the day finds the Worldseed and they become the origin and final boss of the next chapter. I remain super excited for when this is pulled off properly, and there are some cool ideas here. **My guess is this approach is not The Way, at minimum it is too soon**, for now you need to be much more bespoke and careful with individual choices to sculpt a world that works for players.

The Way changes over time, and so The Way involves timing. What is The Way a decade from now is not necessarily The Way today.

More broadly, using technology to build cool things is The Way, but you can’t build a modern game on hardware from the 1970s. Sometimes you’ve got to wait for the tooling to be in place and performing at the level you need it.

* * *

In Zvi’s [review](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/book-review-on-the-edge-the-fundamentals) of Nate Silver’s On The Edge, Zvi remarks that Nate and himself followed similar life paths:

> In my case, those I worked with declared (and this is a direct quote) ‘the age of heroes is over,’ cut back on risk and investment accordingly, and I wept that this meant there were no more worlds to conquer. So I left for others.
> 
> We are both classic cases of learning probability for gambling reasons, then eventually applying it to places that matter. It is most definitely The Way.

Quoting the book:

> Blaise Pascal and Pierre de Fermat developed probability theory in response to a friend’s inquiry about the best strategy in a dice game. (367)

The book on review here talks a lot about how people come to understand how to navigate risk and uncertainty in a world full of both, a key component of The Way. Gambling is a kind of playground for building this skill, stripped as it is of much of the complexities of real life. Dice and cards have easily calculable probabilities, as opposed to human decision-making.

The way is not static, and neither are the people who follow it. Skills learned in one domain can transfer to another. The path one takes while young can create opportunities when older, even if that wasn’t the intention.

Actually Doing The Thing is The Way
===================================

From Zvi’s [post](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/zvis-thoughts-on-the-survival-and) reflecting on his experiences distributing charitable funds, we get several comments on The Way.

> One of the great frustrations in my life is that, as far as I can tell, concierge services, assistants and secretaries are useless. With notably rare exceptions, even when they are provided free of charge, I have never been able to get more out of them than the time I put into them. I am confident that this would change for a sufficiently skilled and high-level person, and I am confident that I am lacking key social technology to hire well and to direct such people well.
> 
> In this context, in particular, it seems like delegation is clearly The Way.

Taken (slightly) less than literally, we see that it is The Way to be effective, whatever that means in the given context. When time is the scarce resource, find ways to maximize one’s use of it, i.e. use other people’s time to fill in the gaps.

When Zvi talked to an organization he could’ve funded:

> The call was great, because *they were honest with me and told me they weren’t doing the thing I wanted them to do.* This is The Way. I didn’t do a good job hiding what answers I wanted to hear, and they said ‘nope, sorry, that’s not what we do here.’ Bravo.

Honesty and honor, where possible, are The Way.

In contrast to the above, there was apparently a proposal to use charitable funds to go extract more charitable funds from startup founders and rich heirs. Zvi took issue with that:

> When we talk about how various moves evaluate in terms of connections and money and power and all that rather than trying to Do the Thing, we have lost The Way.

[The sword is meant to cut the enemy, so cut the enemy.](https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/twelfth-virtue-the) Even if you have to go on a long quest to find the fallen star to get the steel to give to the blacksmith so they’ll forge the sword for you, never forget that *the goal is not the sword.* The goal is to cut the enemy. Forgetting that is to deviate from The Way.

* * *

Zvi [congratulates](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-60-oh-the-humanity) the government on meeting a low but meaningful bar (emphasis mine):

> [White House authorizes $6.4 billion to Samsung](https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1779803830902726800) to expand their Texas footprint under the CHIPS Act. Samsung pledges to invest $40 billion themselves. Again, this seems like a good deal. As others have noted, this is a heartening lack of insisting on American companies. I do worry a bit that the future demographics of South Korea may push Samsung to ‘go rogue’ in various ways, but **if you are going to do a Chips Act style thing, this remains The Way**.

The point of the CHIPS act - of industrial policy in general - should be to produce actual material things. With industry.

And yet the CHIPS act has been bogged down by all kinds of stupid issues regarding who gets what money and if they have enough employees of the right kind and so on and so forth. So Zvi points out that - at least in this case - the US Government is following The Way by getting out of its own way.

If the goal is to produce computer chips, it shouldn’t matter if the company is American or one of our allies.

As always, Doing The Thing is The Way.

* * *

In the [ongoing drama](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/openai-exodus) of OpenAI:

> [Altman initially responded with about the most graceful thing he could have said (in a QT).](https://x.com/sama/status/1791543264090472660) This is The Way provided you follow through.
> 
> > Sam Altman: I'm super appreciative of @janleike's contributions to OpenAI's alignment research and safety culture, and very sad to see him leave. he's right we have a lot more to do; we are committed to doing it. I'll have a longer post in the next couple of days.
> > 
> > 🧡

For context, Jan is an employee leaving OpenAI, like many other safety-focused employees, as OpenAI shows that their committment to AI Notkilleveryoneism is not what they claimed it was.

While Sam Altman talks The Way here, it is only The Way if he follows through with it, and it is doubtful that he will.

The Way is not just about saying the right words in the right order at the right time, although that can be a necessary part of it. The Way is about walking the walk and following through.

Having Skin In The Game is The Way
==================================

[This one](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/the-overemployed-via-chatgpt) is difficult to parse without context:

> Option 3: If you want to make the *really big* bucks, you do not want a *job.* What you want is *equity.* You want *skin in the game.* That is The Way.
> 
> I highly recommend to anyone who is capable and motivated that you want to take option three to the greatest extent possible. Early employee is good. Founder is better.
> 
> It is not simple, easy or safe.
> 
> Founding a company or running a business requires taking on a wide variety of other problems and tasks, and taking on a lot of risk. It is not for everyone, even among those who are highly productive and self-motivating.

Zvi is on the subject of people who are leveraging GPT-4 to vastly increase their productivity, and how they can turn that into making vastly more money. Option 1 is to get promoted, which generally involves going into management and doesn’t work well in this case. Option 2 is to be in a profession that pays commission of some kind, so that productivity can be directly translated into income.

What we learn about The Way from option 3, however, is a far more general lesson.

On the surface, Zvi is simply making the point that becoming super-wealthy in this day and age requires equity. Nobody makes an annual salary of $1 billion/year. Billionaires become billionaires by owning stock (equity) in a company that becomes worth billions of dollars.

One level deeper, the point is about the nature of risk and reward and *skin in the game.*

In some sense, while the relationship between one’s risks and the rewards one gets are not linear, one’s rewards are capped by what one is willing to risk. A *job* is low-risk. You do some work, you get paid, likely the same amount regardless how much work actually got done. Therefore even the highest-paying jobs are capped in terms of the reward they can offer.

*Ownership*, on the other hand, having *equity* in a business, is high-risk. If the business doesn’t do well or fails, you get nothing, no matter how much work you put in. Your effort only matters to the extent that it affects the success or failure of the business itself.

*(Incidentally, Zvi cautions the reader (and I included the cautionary words) that high-risk endeavors are not for everyone. Remember: The Way is hard. The Way is Not For Everyone.)*

The deepest point (that I can see) is about the nature of The Way itself. It is The Way to have skin in the game, for there to be risk to oneself, *because that is the nature of reality.* There is no respawn, no do-over, no second chances at the game of life.

So live like you have skin in the game, like it matters, *because you do and it does.* You have [Something To Protect](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/SGR4GxFK7KmW7ckCB/something-to-protect), so *protect it*.

*That* is The Way.

* * *

From [AI #62](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-62-too-soon-to-tell):

> [This seems like The Way.](https://twitter.com/feliciaday/status/1785815282809971090) The people want their games to not include AI artwork, so have people who agree to do that vouch that their games do not include AI artwork. And then, of course, if they turn out to be lying, absolutely roast them.

File this under Doing The Thing, where ‘The Thing’ here is ‘give the people what they want’, where ‘what they want’ is ‘games without AI artwork’.

Note that this is going to become a bigger and bigger deal over time - ‘human made’ is already a thing with regards to some goods (think about handmade goods sold on Etsy vs. mass-produced goods sold on Amazon), but we need to add the ‘human made’ distinction to writing and coding work now. People want to know if they’re interacting with a real person or a machine, because we’re getting to the point where they can’t actually tell.

Also consider that The Way includes taking stands and putting one’s reputation on the line. If the game says it does not use AI artwork and is found to use AI artwork, it deserves to be ridiculed.

* * *

[Relating to sports](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/monthly-roundup-18-may-2024):

> [A reminder that this is The Way](https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1779612755550478719).
> 
> > Kevin O’Connor: The top playoff seeds should be rewarded with the ability to choose their 1st round opponent.
> > 
> > Intentional losing to drop a spot for a matchup isn’t as exciting as teams competing to win for homecourt AND their choice of an opponent.
> > 
> > It should matter the Knicks just beat the Bulls while the Bucks lost and the Cavs had no interest in winning to get the 2nd seed. Instead many Knicks fans are disappointed they will end up with the Heat or Sixers from the play-in.
> > 
> > This makes no sense. It doesn’t have to be this way. Winning should be all that matters.
> > 
> > The NBA used to allow G League teams to choose their playoff opponent. Clearly, there’s interest.
> > 
> > Nate Duncan: I would love it, but GMs and coaches on the competition committee will never vote for having to make another decision (picking your opponent) that could possibly get them fired if it goes wrong.
> > 
> > Nate Silver: Have season ticket holders vote.

Having stakeholders get more skin in the game is The Way.

* * *

From [AI #69](https://thezvi.substack.com/p/ai-69-nice) (emphasis mine):

> [Francois Chollet went on Dwarkesh Patel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UakqL6Pj9xo&ab_channel=DwarkeshPatel) to claim that OpenAI set AI back five years and launch a million dollar prize to get to 85% on the ARC benchmark, which is designed to resist memorization by only requiring elementary knowledge any child knows and asking new questions.
> 
> No matter how much I disagree with many of Chollet’s claims, the million dollar prize is awesome. **Put your money where your mouth is, this is The Way.** Many thanks.
> 
> > [Kerry Vaughan-Rowe](https://x.com/KerryLVaughan/status/1800586466101456986): This is the correct way to do LLM skepticism.
> > 
> > Point specifically to the thing LLMs can't do that they should be able to were they generally intelligent, and then see if future systems are on track to solve these problems.

Put your money where your mouth is. Make your beliefs pay rent.

If you refuse to hold your beliefs up to scrutiny, how can anyone else believe that you have confidence in them? If you’re not willing to make a bet, maybe you’re not as confident as you think you are.

Here we see Chollet follow The Way by making a concrete claim, and putting his own money on the line to see it challenged.

Conclusion
==========

My biggest takeaways from reviewing so much of Zvi’s writings on The Way are:

*   Zvi has *a lot* of writing
*   The Way, while ultimately consequentialist (in the end, you either Do The Thing and Cut The Enemy or you don’t), draws heavily from virtue ethics. Being virtuous in certain ways is part of The Way, *because* those virtues help one in the consequentialist sense. Some of those virtues/virtuous actions include:
    *   Openly and publicly explaining what one is actually thinking, regardless of how it affects one’s status
    *   Laying out an argument of what one believes that can be disagreed with (as opposed to refusing to commit to any stance out of fear of being wrong)
    *   Admitting when one is wrong and updating one’s beliefs, with bonus points for doing so publicly
    *   Having the courage of one’s convictions: being willing to make bets and have Skin In The Game
    *   Concretely improving things on the margin is the way. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good; actually making the world a better place now is preferable to theoretically making it perfect later
*   The Way, much like the Force or the Dao, is something that can be applied to every aspect of life. It exists when having fun and playing games, it exists when fighting the end of the world, and it exists in all the nooks and crannies in between

To paraphrase Milton:

Long is The Way, and hard, that out of ignorance leads up to light.