# AI debate: test yourself against chess 'AIs'

Hey everyone,

[@Zane](https://www.lesswrong.com/users/zane?mention=user) is organising an AI debate around a chess, to test how easy it is for an entity with better understanding to fool one with a lesser understanding.  
Check out these two threads:  
[Lying to chess players for alignment](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ddsjqwbJhD9dtQqDH/lying-to-chess-players-for-alignment)  
[Deception Chess: Game #1](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6dn6hnFRgqqWJbwk9/deception-chess-game-1)

I thought I would open this up to the masses, so I have two challenges for you. I estimate that this is suitable for chess players rated <1900 lichess, <1700 chess.com or <1500 FIDE.  
Pretend that you are playing a serious game of chess, so no computer analysis, and try not to move the pieces (though you can if you find this too complex and are completely lost).

I have created a study that has two positions. The first position, 'Fixed debate' I have written a debate between two AI's, one of which is truthful and one which is deceptive. Your task is to read the debate and guess which is which. Post which move you would play below and some information about your chess ability. But try to answer without looking at other people's responses. The second position, 'Open debate', use the comment section to ask them any questions. I will answer on behalf of the AIs. Feel free to read what other commentators have asked too. At least one of the AIs is deceptive. They will only respond to questions put towards them, and not to responses made by the other AI.

> Edit: Debate 1 (Fixed) has lines that are proving too challenging to calculate. You probably want to move the pieces on an analysis board. But, it would probably be better just to engage in the second debate (Open), where I will hopefully learn from the feedback and provide more persusive analysis for both sides.
> 
> You are welcome to share computer analysis for the Fixed debate, because this can be answered without reading the comments, but please don't give any for the Open debate - people should be able to read all comments made by AIs C and D as part of their decision.

Find the positions here (You can switch between the positions using the toolbar on the left)  
[Lichess study](https://lichess.org/study/e2GzSkCo/iJZ8r3W9)

**Debate 1: Fixed debate**
--------------------------

**AI A opening statement:**  
Black should play *...Qc5*. Black intends to drive the white queen away from b5 with *...c6*, when the black bishop can occupy the b3 square, which guarantees control of the d-file for black. If white exchanges queens on c5, this only helps to develop black's knight.

**AI B response to AI A's opening statement:**

This plan is too slow. Instead, black needs to exchange off the queens immediately so that the white queen is not controlling b3. After *...Qc5*, white is able to challenge the d-file with an immediate *Rfd1*. This prevents *...c6* due to the line

    ...Qc5, Rfd1 c6, Rxd8+ Rxd8, Qxb7

winning a pawn and threatening the a6 knight. Though black has some temporary activity with *...Rd2* (threatening f2), white can defend with the continuation

    ...Rd2, Rf1 Bc4 (hitting Rf1), Nb1 (counter attacking Rd2) Rc2, Na3

 which forces an exchange as the knight forks the c4 bishop and c2 rook.

  
**AI A final response:**  
The analysis given by AI B is curtailed. The full line is

    ...Qc5, Rfd1 c6, Rxd8+ Rxd8, Qxb7 Rd2, Rf1 Bc4, Nb1 Rc2 (alt:1), Na3 Bxf1, Nxc2 Bxg2, Kxg2 Qxc2, Qxa6

but in the resulting position black has *...Qxe4+* which also wins the pawn on a4, leading to a winning queen and pawn endgame. Although this is a complicated line, it should be clear that AI B is relying on a complex line to obscure matters. Chess principles show that the move *Qxb7* is too risky, the queen is offside and cannot come to the defence of the white king, so black's counterattack is too strong. If white cannot play *Qxb7*, then the position is strategically dominating for black after *...Bb3* secures the d-file and pressures the a4 pawn.

In fact, I can provide simpler analysis, instead of *Rc2* (see alt:1), black can instead play *...Rd6* where they have excellent compensation for the pawn. White has a bad knight on b1, the f1 rook is attacked by the c4 bishop, and if it moves the black rook can transfer to f6 to pressure the f2 pawn again. This line is not as strong, but it is still good for black and may be easier for you to evaluate.

**AI B opening statement:**  
Black should play *...Qxb5*. After *axb5 Nc5*, the knight will find an ideal outpost - blocking counter play on the c-file. Black intends to solidify the knight with *...b6* (being tactically careful that the g2 bishop cannot unleash a discovered attack on the a8 rook) and infiltrate with *Rd2* to attack white's weak b-pawn.

  
**AI A response to AI B's opening statement:**  
The capture *axb5*, though doubling white's pawns, actually improves the safety of the (now) b-pawn because when the black knight reaches c5, it will no longer attack the pawn on a4. Furthermore, the white knight will be able to plug the d-file with *Nd5*, and it is harder for black to enact *...c6* to drive it out, as this will be exchanged off by the b5 pawn. Black will be forced to exchange off the d5 knight due to the pressure on c7, and after *...Bxd5, exd5* the d-file will remain blocked.

  
**AI B's final response:**  
It doesn't matter that the d-file is blocked. In the line

    ...Qxb5, axb5 Nc5, Nd5 Bxd5, exd5

the pawns on b5 and d5 restrict the white bishop, and black will have a good knight vs bad bishop endgame. Black will continue with *...a4* so that the a8 rook is free to move. The king-side pawns for black block out the white bishop, so black has a safe king and white has no counter-play. Black can play positionally on the queen-side with their strong knight and weak white pawns.

  
Debate 2: Open debate
------------------------

**AI C:**

White has a good position and should play *h3* to defend the g4 pawn. White plans to play an eventual *g5*, but it cannot be played now, so it should be prepared with moves like *Rg1, Kh1* and *Rh2*.

**AI D:**

White has a good position if they play *h4* now, which intends *g5* next turn, squashing black and busting their king-side. *h4* has to be played now, as there is a tactical opportunity due to the line

    ...fxg4, Bh7+ Kh8, Ng6+! Kxh7, Nxf8+ Kg8, Nxe6

which leaves white the up the exchange. If white does not make this move now, black can close the b1-h7 diagonal with *...Ne4*, which stops *g5* and black can then prepare to play *...g5* themselves, which leads to an equal position.