HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mlh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael L. Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Scents
Date: 23 Nov 1992 02:48:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Peter,
        Most of my experience in scents is w/ scented oils.
These normally from the standard selection of cooking oils and
chosen for their own scent or for their lack of scent and then
scented.   The most common methods of scenting are either to
use food flavorings or the "essential oils."  The former are 
easy to find and usually cheaper.  The latter can normally be 
found in most earthy crunchy food coops and the like but come in 
some really neat scents such as lavendour and sandalwood.  The
price on these varies a lot depending on where you buy them and 
what scent you are getting.

	Enjoy,
		Mike.
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Subject: Re: alt.BACKRUBS
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:57:39 GMT


In re backpains..
  There is no such thing as a minor back-pain.
	Some pain you will ignore, but it is not minor.
	I had minor backpains for years until I fin Im in the 
	middle of some weird form of arthritis. If I paid
	attention to them 20 years ago I might have
	been more succesful in dealing with this and the pain.

	Now is it local to the spine or is it radiating pain.

    Does it occur when you twist in a particular direction
		  when you bend in a particular direction.
		  when you sit.
		  when you stand.
		  immediately after arising in the am are you unusually stiff?
		  Do you find yourself "stiffening" after a long
		     stretch of sitting
		  Does any activity in particular bring on this pain?

		  radiating pain seems like while it has a focus, the pain seems to travel
		  -particularly noticed in sciatic issues -ie like a hot poker being traced
		  down the leg.

		  localized pain is like what it says -stick yourself with a pin
		  and you have an example of localized pain.

		  Is the pain associated with tired muscles from maintaining an un-natural
		  position for long periods of time, or from nerve impingment or damage?
		  That is the basic question we are trying to distinguish in looking at
		  the above question list..
		  Richard

-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 321 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: cb@wixer.cactus.org (Cyberspace Buddha)
Subject: Re: Reply to some stuff
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 04:48:54 GMT

<LXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> (Your worst nightmare) writes:
>Here is my blatent opinion..Gays suck dick!

Golly, I can't imagine why you think that.
Near as I can tell, it's true.  I suppose you intend it in a negative
sense though, so we're getting nowhere.

BTW, you're not my worst nightmare.  He was voted out of office not long ago.

cb
-- 
 Cyberspace Buddha { Why are you looking for more knowledge when you  } /(o\
cb@wixer.cactus.org } do not pay attention to what you already know? {  \o)/
 Is this thing on? { Just say no to war, Bush, NSA, CIA, IRS, etc...  } fnord
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Reply to some stuff
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:56:58 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <92320.134257LXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> <LXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> (Your worst nightmare) writes:
>Here is my blatent opinion..Gays suck dick! 

 And so do some heteros -so what's your point? Are you being expressive or exploitative?
 Do you feel good crapping on other people's mores or is this something you've
 learned, and don't know how to unlearn. Don't you think someone that is putatively
 undergoing higher education might be able to express themselves rather
 than just fart into the aether? I would hope you would, or you have just pissed away
 a lot of money for nothing.

> It is just morally wrong in my opi
   Fine - this level of discussion I can support. Except it always seems
   to get back to My god is bigger than your god. Where in hell do you
   think morals come from?:)

   Think a bit next time before you get your frigging halo on.
   RIchard
-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 321 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: gollera@carn19.alleg.edu (April Goller)
Subject: masage question
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:37:33 GMT

Howdy,

	It's me again, April.  My question this time is about the  
application of backrubs/massages.  The person that I give backrubs to is  
on the College diving team and has very large muscule right along both  
sides of his spine.  Is there any good way to relax these muscles.  All  
the book says is to make small circling motions with your thumbs (right  
beside either side of the spine) moving upwords and out.  Ok, this works,  
but is there any thing else that I can try?  The book also neglects lowere  
back.  Any suggestions on motions to use down there?  Any and all  
suggestions will be read avidly and be appreciated.  Thank you.

					ALG @-}----

P.S.  Since I forgot to mention it last time, my code is gollera@alleg.edu


My quote for the day:  "The worst prison would be a closed heart."
					Pope john Paul II.

Smile =-)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: michael@monitor.com (Michael Johnson)
Subject: Re: Preferred Gender
Reply-To: michael@monitor.com (Michael Johnson)
Organization: Monitor Company / IE
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:22:18 GMT

In article <1e0smmINN9h2@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> ST201434@brownvm.brown.edu (jude)  
writes:
>      Excuse me, I just want to make sure I'm getting all this right...
> When I originally posted my question, I honestly did not expect all these
> wonderful confessions of men admitting that yes, they are homophobes.

What you are doing is forcing your same-sex comfort on other people by  
vilifying their personal feelings--Dan K. did not say anything about  
male-male massage being _wrong_.  He was exposing his personal feelings, and  
you simply couldn't resist bashing him to make your point.  Thanks.

My opinion (which no one else need share) is that massage from a friend is  
different than massage from an acquaintance because there are already  
emotions between friends which are intensified by intimate physical contact.   
My relationships with male friends are mostly based on intellectual  
companionship, and intimate contact would feel inappropriate.  One could go  
on and on about why I feel this way about my male friends, but that would  
have nothing to do with the topics of this newsgroup.  Suffice to say thatfor  
me, massage from another male is okay, but not from a close male friend.
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: rbgorbet@kingcong.uwaterloo.ca (Rob Gorbet)
Subject: Re: Preferred Gender
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:20:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.163830.3164@msdhsv.ingr.com>, foxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com ("AJ") writes:

> ...
> A sub-point is that some families hug/touch a good bit and some
> don't, so different people have different "known" experiences.
> ...
> IMHO, to most males, a massage by a
> female can be analogized to similar contact in other (at least
> theoretically) known situations, so some of the nervousness is
> not present.
> ...

At the risk of sounding Freudian/Oedipan/Whatever-an...

Might this lack of comfort and "at-ease-ness" some males experience around
other males come from their family situation?  I think it's safe to say that,
in most North American families especially, girls grow up experiencing affection
from both their Father and Mother.  This is not true of most boys, whose Fathers,
afflicted by the homophobia described in this thread, withold or even don't feel
affection.  The boys do receive affection from their Mothers, on the other hand.

So it would seem more "normal", as AJ points out, to have female members of
society invading the male private space than to have males do so.  I, on the 
other hand, grew up in a family in which affection was never witheld, from my
Father or my Mother.  In fact, I am still very affectionate with my Father, and
kiss and hug him (and tell him I love him and all that other gushy stuff) every
time I see him.  I'm 24.

It would also seem that these household attitudes towards affection can affect a 
person's future social outlook:  I have often been described by women as being
"very open-minded, for a guy" and "emotionally driven, rather than fact-driven".
And I have no problem receiving a massage from a male friend of mine.

All this to say, I agree with AJ's post, and just thought I'd contribute...

Rob Gorbet
"Engineer without a .sig"
--------------------------------------------------
...but I do have a quote!...

The intensity of the initial infatuation between two people is not a measure of 
their love for each other, but rather a measure of their previous degree of
loneliness.
-Erich Fromm, The Art Of Loving...somthing to think about...
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 13:42:57 EST
From: <LXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> (Your worst nightmare)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Reply to some stuff

Here is my blatent opinion..Gays suck dick!  It is just morally wrong in my opi
nion.   It's okay to have a good guy/girl friend, but the line stops when the s
ex thing comes in ex) Bill says "hey Ted I'm feeling rather horny today, so why
don't you bend over for a sec...(use your imagination).

===lOnG-Man...aka LoNg-mAN

p.s. Maybe I should also post this in alt.homosexual...heh heh heh '8 )=
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: foxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com ("AJ")
Subject: Preferred Gender
Reply-To: foxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: "Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville AL"
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:38:30 GMT

     One other issue to throw on the fire with respect to living
in the U.S.A. is that people here have a larger "personal" space
than most other cultures.  Most people have a comfortable buffer
of space around them and are accustomed to having that except in
certain (usually) known situations.  If they lose that space they
feel uncomfortable.  Ask anyone about their first crowded subway
experiences.  Impersonal crowding of that personal space is
allowable to a certain point, but then becomes too close.  A
sub-point is that some families hug/touch a good bit and some
don't, so different people have different "known" experiences.

     So (back to the issue) it's not too surprising that some
men are nervous about receiving massages from other men.  No
matter how needed or pleasurable, a degree of uncomfortableness
must be overcome to relax that unconscious vigilance we all keep
of our personal space.  IMHO, to most males, a massage by a
female can be analogized to similar contact in other (at least
theoretically) known situations, so some of the nervousness is
not present.  A massage by another man, however, is more
"unknown", not similar to most previous experiences, so there's
more initial uncomfortableness to overcome.  This is why and 
where a "professional demeanor" comes into play.  It helps to 
define the client-professional relationship so that the
recipient will find it hard to misinterpret the situation.
  --AJ
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: marcuss@microsoft.com (Marcus Stringer)
Subject: TOUCHY
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:50:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: Tough"e"

What we're dealing with (male-male "intimacyphobia") 
is _almost_ beyond the scope of this group, but 
since there's a problem in getting us "macho" males 
to relax unless there's a female counterpart, it's 
still in the scope.

On with my post... This summer I attended a massage 
class with some gay and lesbian people.  
Me, "Mr. Inclusive, Pro-Diversity, Acceptance", 
held his breath as some of the lesbians took off 
their blouses, knowing that we guys would have to 
share backrubs.  Part of my surprise was because 
even until then, way back in my uneducated mind, I 
thought that a woman takes her cloths off in a males'
presence, only when she wants sex.  So there was 
still some stereotyping going on in my "open-mind".  
Granted the class was a safe space, and that things 
might have been different in a private setting with 
just two people.

The point is that there were still some chains on my
view of reality.  After that class, I was less a slave 
to stereotyped thinking/relating.  Some of the 
confessions I've read are SAD, PITIFUL testimonies of 
a society whose males (for the most part) are SLAVES, 
captive to _unreasonable_ fears, and roles.  We are 
adults, and unless we're dealing with some traumatic 
event in your past - which we should get a grip on 
before we destroy ourselves and others with our fears -
we should be able to say "NO", or put limits to the 
experience and not feel threatened.

So what's the need for balking at exchanging backrubs 
with other males, when it is understood that the 
backrub is not in a sexual connotation?  It's because 
we men look at each other as fellow sex machings, either
in a friends or enemies.  We've been socialized to be 
sex machines.  And it isn't our fault until we are able 
to recognize the fact and change it.  We're a bunch of
unhealthy males.  A HEALTHY heterosexual male should be 
able to be intimate emotionally, or physically (doesn't 
mean sex), with other males.  

	Notice: 
	No disclaimer of assurance of my personal 
	orientation included = guy on the road to freedom.


	"Freedom is not something anybody can be given,
	freedom is something people TAKE."
					- James Balwin

	STOP BEING A SLAVE!!!!!  TAKE YOUR FREEDOM!!!
		BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: kmc8z@Virginia.EDU ("***** Tina C *****")
Subject: backrub scents
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:24:17 GMT

i use different unscented backrub oils usually...
but i was just looking for you all to suggest some of your
"favorite" scents....

all situations appreciated:
theraputic scents
ertoic scents
relaxing...
energizing...
etc.

thanks

tina
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Preferred Gender
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:23:58 GMT

In article <BxuEpI.Cy9@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> rbgorbet@kingcong.uwaterloo.ca (Rob Gorbet) writes:
>afflicted by the homophobia described in this thread, withold or even don't 
                  ^^^^^^^^^^  -- Fear of sameness??

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Looking for a teacher
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:58:43 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <1992Nov17.232956.2588@pellns.alleg.edu> gollera@carn24.alleg.edu (April Goller) writes:
>I noticed the earlier post about a search for a massage instructor and I'd  
>like to ask the same question.  Iam looking for someone to teach the act  
>of massage.  I am currently living in Meadville , Pa (also known as  
>mudville) and attending Allegheny College.  I am originally from  
>Cleveland, Oh.  It would be appreciated if someone would help me locate  
>one.  Failing this, a list of helpful books would be nice.  My name is  
>April.  Thanks.

 Perhaps the best way to start finding a school is as follows:
   1) what styles of massage do you feel simpatico with.
	  If the answer is "duhh what?" then its easier, you
	  can start anywhere ...

	  Let me categorize these for you on a separate listing.

   2) Call up massage practitioners in your area -you can find
	   reputable ones under the yellow pages -usually advertizing
	   as certified or liscensed. Ask them wehre they took their training.

	   If they claim to teach, go get a massage from them and
	   see if what they have to offer is what you want to learn.

   3)  Check into  new-age book stores and coffe shops -look at the 
	   local bulletin board for equally reputable people who
	   dont particularly advertise in the yellow pages.

	   Same scenario as a bove.

   4) Check with your martial arts freinds -most dojos also
	  have a great massage person that they reccomnmend
   
   5) Check with local chiropractors -same same.

   IE there are many ways to find out what you want to know, once you
   put yourself into that mindset. 

   Enjoy ...
   Richard
-- 
|UUCP  richard@octel.com                 VOICE (HEY YOU!) or 408 321 6372
| 
|             Speaker for the dead - among them:
|                 Liberty, Justice, Freedom
From: mlh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael L. Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: problems, flames, confidence and hate...
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:44:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu



        Yes, I posted along this line just a few minutes
 ago. However, since that time, I found out that there was
 a lot of new traffic  on this subject.  So,  I'm posting
 again with what I hope is a more comprehensive plea to the
 general posters.


        Frankly, I'm disappointed.  I found this group about
 two weeks ago and was excited to find what I believed
 would be a group of enlightened, confident and caring
 people to talk with and maybe even trade massage time.
 This is the type of person that I've normally met in
 massage circles.  Unfortunately, some of the people here
 are quite threatened by opposing view points.  When people
 make  admissions they get flamed.   Thats the response of
 someone who's THREATENED, not confident.  Its the
 response of someone who's PREJUDICED against people with
 different ideas.  Its  the response of a CHILD and not an
 adult.  Funny, these are the accusations these
 "enlightened folks" have been trying to hurt others with.
 The responses I've read have included a lot of name
 calling, ( teenager, homophobic, childish,  stupid...)
 instead of being constructive.  Makes me wonder...  If
 you guys are so comfortable in your opinions, why cant
 you calmly discuss another viewpoint...? The fact is, the
 people doing the flaming are hurting themselves 1) by
 shutting themselves off from a whole class of people who
 have in several cases admitted that they have a problem to
 work out and 2) hurting  others by pushing them back in a
 shell.  I'd like to make several appeals to the people on
 this board.


        1)      Talk instead of flaming.

        2)      Help instead of hurting.

        3)      If you must flame, do it via. Email and don't
                waste the time of people who want to actually
                address the issues.

        4)      Lets eventually get back to back rubs.

        5)      :-)

        Mike

P.S. Jude, sorry to hear your taking a lot of abuse on this one.
     Maybe people will calm down a bit and end the personal 
     attacks.
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 15:01:55 EST
From: Jossie I. Roman <JR8551A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: accupressure

   Hi!  Have you been in the library already?  I think thats the best place to
go and start doing some reaserch.  I'm really sorry that I have no clue about t
hat subject.
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Sun, 15 Nov 92 11:14:28 CST
From:         C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: Preferred Gender
Newsgroups:   alt.backrubs

>
>In article <1e0smmINN9h2@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, ST201434@brownvm.brown.edu (jude)
>says:
>
>In article <92317.193311C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu>, C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu
>said:
>>would prefer to get one from somebody they DON'T know (although the 'trust'
>>thing is obviously necessary) VERY well, mainly because of the 'image'
>>associated with getting a massage from a male one knows very well as a
>friend.
>>....
>>association with a male other than either 'friend' or 'professional'.
>>For me, it would be crossing the boundaries of both to have a male friend
>(not
>>to say that I couldn't get along with a masseur) give me a massage.
>>
>>Just my 2 cents :)--Dan K
>
>     Excuse me, I just want to make sure I'm getting all this right...
>When I originally posted my question, I honestly did not expect all these
>wonderful confessions of men admitting that yes, they are homophobes.
>
>     Dan K. says that his reasoning is because of the 'image' projected.
>Come on!  You're worried about what other people are going to think?  Like
>who?  Obviously not people who know you, they'd already be aware of what
>the deal was.  So just 'people' then?  The general sort of public?  Oh, yes,
>I can see how important it is for you to maintain your 'image.'
>
>     Wouldn't want to cross those 'boundaries.'
>
>                                         -jude
>
>Are there any queers in the theatre tonight?
>Get 'em up against the wall!
>There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me!
>Get him up against the wall!
>               -PFloyd

Obiously someone is trying to flame me.

I responded PRIVATELY in E-MAIL that I thought this post offensive and very
close-minded, as well as completely without fault.  If I said anything here
that may be construed as offensive to anyone, forgive me, it is not what I
meant in the least...

I meant that it is difficult to get a massage from a FRIEND (although the
respondant here obviously 'skipped' that part of the message) as opposed to
someone who is a professional.

Signing off this newsgroup--Dan K
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...)
Subject: Re: Reply to some stuff
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 18:14:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Distribution: usa
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1e5cd1INN7gt@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, ST201434@brownvm.brown.edu (jude) writes...
>First of all, yes, Mike, this is being posted, since it is a reply to lots
>of other posts.  If anyone else out there feels that what i say is
>inappropriate or not being "nice", as Mike put it, please let me know.
> 
>     First of all, I understand what all of you are saying about the social
>stigma of homosexuality.  I mean, obviously there is prejudice.  Yes, many
>boys grow up fearing what there friends will think.  I never said that was not
>true.  Hoewever, doesn't there come a time when you outgrow these things?  No,
>maybe a 13 year old boy does not have the social maturity, experience, and
>self-confidence to stand up for what is wrong, but why not a grown man?  The
>prejudice against homosexuals is just as wrong as racism or any other kind of
>hate.  It cannot be justified by saying, oh, i'm homophobic, and maybe that's
>not great, but everyone is, so that's okay.  The fact that everyone is is NOT
>okay.  But as long as noone stands up and says something, it won't stop.
> 
>     -jude       :-(  dammit, why?
======================================================================
Jude,
  I have been following this thread for a while and while it is rather
against my better judgement to say so. I think there is another item
involved in many men preferring not to be massaged ny other males. There
is distrust and of a very high order in some cases that can almost never
be dismissed. This is in cases where at some point in their lives a male
(generally a young boy) has been sexually abused by another male. This
usually involves a person trusted deeply by the victim up until that
point and can forever cloud male to male relationships after that. The
reason I said it was against my better judgement to bring this up is that
it happened to me at a very young age and it was only through a very long
period of therapy that I was able to finally start bringing up the memories
but I still just can't allow touching easily unless I trust the person very
highly and normally females are easier for me to relate to. Even then I
need to be able to know them and feel very comfortable with the person.
  I do agree with many of your opinions but this is an area I felt I had to
express myself in. Thank you for listening as this isn't easy to say.
							Jim