HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:18:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.034930.4849@sfu.ca>, knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott) writes:
>> 
>> Anybody got any others?  One of these days, I'll compend a list.... :)
>> 

Something which struck me was the way that the Dragon Reborn is going to 
destroy the world while he saves it.  It sorta matches the way the Bible says
the world is going to end in fire etc.  I don't claim to be an expert on
the Bible or anything, but I think that there are some parallells.

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
From: gjr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Graham James Reilly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Kay's Fironavar Tapestry **Spoilers**
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:59:17 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <9301211929.AA21403@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu> sherman@SOL1.LRSM.UPENN.EDU (Bill Sherman (Bill Graham's group)) writes:
>
>	I am a bit surprised to see quite so much criticism of FT.
>Personally, I thought that the books were some of the best fantasy
>I've ever read.  There were several reasons for that.
>	First of all, I enjoyed how Kay used the existing literature
>to his advantage.  He used all the old cliche's, but he turned about
>half of them on their ear.  For example, I loved the way the
>Soulmonger messed up the heavenly picture of the afterlife of the lios
>alfar/elves. I also liked the fact that the old king Brandin finally
>fell from grace not by pride (like all the other Great Old Kings of
>the literature), but from simple fear.  I liked the fact that, after
>lining the high priestess (forget her name) up as the annoying
>intruiger who will always mess things up, he actually makes her part
>of the team in a more realistic way (I loved Paul's line "Don't
>overestimate your own malevolence").  It was a relief, that, for once
>the main romance of the novel (which, I seem to be the only one who
>thinks is Diarmuid's, not Guenivere's) ended in tragedy.  I liked the
>fact that Diarmuid's brother was not the
>all-round-great-guy-who-can-solve-all-problems that Aragorn was.  For
>a change, the poor waif who vanquished the evil overlord died in the
>process.  For once the head-wizard actually looses his power for real,
>and doesn't get it back (even though Kay gave himself the perfect
>opening for it by having Matt Soren revived).  Again and again, Kay
>played off the standard line and stretched the form.  Kay didn't
>just rehash the old stuff, he used it as a springboard.

This is what got me about Tigana as well.  GGK took all the old Tolkienesque
cliches and either lobbed them out the window or used them in a completely
different way.  Therefore we have a farmboy, but he is not an orphan and doesn't
have any mysterious heritage.  We have a wizard with a beard but he's just this
guy that does a bit of magic, not a deus ex machina plot device wise man.  We
have two evil powerful guys, but we get to see it from their point of view as
well, and it makes sense.

It's very like Kay has deliberatley set out to twist the genre out of the 
puddle it's sitting in, and I hope he continues to do so ( haven't read Song
For Arbonne yet )



Dylan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: write@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Glen Cox)
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:01:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <JET.93Jan22173945@boxer.nas.nasa.gov> jet@boxer.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend) writes:
>"ADFMcLean_CSD" == Alexandra Haropulos.ADFMcLean CSD <Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@XEROX.COM> writes:
>
>ADFMcLean_CSD> It appears that SFantasy in particular is veering off
>ADFMcLean_CSD> into some rather 'radical feminist' directions. I no
>ADFMcLean_CSD> longer read much new Anne McCaffrey or Marion Zimmer
>ADFMcLean_CSD> Bradley, because I have gotten a bit tired of listening
>
>If MZB and McCaffrey (of all people) are "feminist writers", then I'm
>the reincarnated Miles Davis.

Hi Miles!  Gla you've returned so quickly.

Mile, check out Zimmer Bradley's THENDARA HOUSE, and after you've recovered
from the bludgeoning might of her feminist sledgehammer, check back with
this conversation.

>There's a big difference between "feminist fiction" and "fiction
>written by a feminist".  In the case of MZB and McCaffery, I'd just
>lump them under "fiction written by somebody who knows some
>buzzplots".

McCaffrey, yes.  MZB, no.  See above.

>IMHO, feminist fiction would include:
>
>_Handmaid's Tale_
>_The Female Man_, Russ
>"All Our Darling Daughters" (is that the right title?)

"All My Darling Daughters" by Connie Willis, which can be found in the
anthology ALIEN SEX, edited by Ellen Datlow. 

>one or two of the shorts in the anti-resolution-conflict anthlogoy by
>Shiner the name of which escapes me this moment

You're probably thinking of Lew Shiner's story in WHEN THE MUSIC'S OVER,
edited by same.

>some of Tiptree's work

Like "The Women Men Don't See" and "The Screwfly Solution."

>fiction by feminists would include:
>_Falling Woman_, Pat Murphy
>_Mindplayers_, Pat Cadigan
>some more of Tiptree's work

And Pamela Sargent, Eleanor Arnason, Elizabeth Vonnarburg, etc.

>ADFMcLean_CSD> crystal hugging/singing/worshipping/younameit)...These
>ADFMcLean_CSD> authors are MAN HATERS! As well as Luddites. (I'm sure
>
>And you're a moron for bothering to consider them a writer of note,
>much less ascribing all sorts of radical points of view to them.

Ouch!  Let's not be insulting to the original poster, Miles.  Both
MZB and McCaffrey seem to have trouble relating to the male point-of-view,
especially in later books, but at least they've *tried* the male pov.
Many male writers haven't.  And the original poster *should* be
chastised for ascribing to these two authors the term "Luddite" unless
they can prove it from a quote by one or both of the authors in question.

glen
From: smt0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STEFAN M. THIEME)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: RE: PIERS ANTHONY'S XANTH BOOKS
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:56:05 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1jkae9INNp9n@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
(Jim Mann) writes:
>In article <93020.123501U52025@uicvm.uic.edu> <U52025@uicvm.uic.edu>
>writes:
>>  Would someone give me a list of all of Piers Anthonys Xanth books
>in order
>>  that they came out? I've notice that his books does not have "
>book 1 "  or
>> " book 2 " and the likes on the cover. So I would like a list of
>the first to
>> the last of the Xanth books.
>
>I don't know the whole series, since they get worse as they go
>along. I'll list the good ones, though:
>
>A Spell For Chameleon
>--
>Jim Mann
>Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
>

I agree; spell was the only one worth reading. I wish I had had the sense to
quit Anthony back then; he's worse than durgs.

But, I did not have the sense back then, so

1. A spell for Chameleon
2. TRhe source of magic   ----\
3.Castle Roogna                 \
4.Centaur Isle.                  these were moderately acceptable
5.Ogre, Ogre                    /
6.Nightmare              ------/
7. Dragon on a pedestal   -----\
8.Cruel Lye                     going downhill
9. Golem in the Gears     -----/
10.Vale of the Vole       ------\
11. Heaven Cent                  really picking up speed
12 Man From Mundania      ------/
13. Isle of View
14. Question quest          <-----Bad enough to make me stop reading Xanth
15 The color of her panties
16. (the new one)
From: duzan@thorin.cis.udel.edu (Gary D. Duzan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Forsaken (Re: Aes Sedai)
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:12:40 GMT
Organization: Your Organization Could Be Here!

In article <darknite.728120553@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
=>In <1993Jan26.182946.7477@sfu.ca> knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott) writes:
=>>
=>>Moghedien - Beaten up my Nynaeve in Tanchico.
=>>	    May have escaped by completely moving into Tel'aran'rhiod.
=>>	    Brigette mentions that she is the most powerful Forsaken in
=>>	    the world of dreams and it is supposed to be possible to move
=>>	    your entire physical body into there.
=>
=>Of _COURSE_!
=>(Smacks self on pointy little head.)
=>That's how she escaped-- I seem to remember a refence to the
=>effect that dream-walking didn't require channeling anyway.
=>
=>She may even be able to un-still herself there.  Who knows?

   If I remember correctly, she wasn't stilled, only shielded and
bound with air.

                                        Gary Duzan
                                        Time  Lord
                                    Third Regeneration
                                          Aielman



-- 
                             duzan@cis.udel.edu
   _o_                       ------------------                         _o_
 [|o o|]       Virtual Reality? No thanks, I've already got one.      [|o o|]
  |_O_|       Disclaimer: I have no idea what I am talking about.      |_O_|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: josv@sci.kun.nl (Jos Ververgaard)
Subject: Man of Gold, by Barker
Keywords: Tekumel, Barker, Man of Gold
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:51:38 GMT

Seems I posted this to rec.arts.sf.misc instead of this group, so here's for
another try:

A few days ago I stumbled over a book named Man of Gold by M.A.R. Barker
(printed in 1984 by DAW). It proclaims itself to be the first novel in a
series set in Tekumel, Empire of the Petal Throne (seeminly based on a role-
playing game). The world seems to be based on ancient Indian (as in India)
culture with elaborate clan and social structures (not unlike th tsuranuanni-
culture described by Raymond Feist, but not as militant and more versatile).
I really liked this one a lot, it was much better than I had suspected when
I read it was based on a role-playing game.
As I said it is supposed to be the first of a series of books set in the
same universe. Can anyone tell me if any of these books were actually written,
and if so what are their titles (and in case of multiple writers, their authors
as well).
Furthermore I'd like to hear what other though of this novel. Any response is
welcome.

			-Jos

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie)
Subject: Re: Steven R. Boyett
Organization: Digital Transmission Systems, Duluth, GA.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:02:34 GMT

In article <9301230829.AA05234@rutgers.edu> RKOSTER3@UA1VM.UA.EDU (Raph Koster) writes:
>I have read  Ariel and The Architect of Sleep & enjoyed both. What is
>the title of the second book in the Architect of Sleep series and
>how might it be found? When did it come out? Anybody have an ISBN number?

The second book of the AoS series has not been published due to Boyett
changing publishers - the new one doesn't want to publish only the later
half of a series, and the old one wasn't paying enough to suit Boyett.

-- 
Pete Hardie:  phardie@nastar  (voice) (404) 497-0101
Digital Transmission Systems, Inc., Duluth GA
Member, DTS Dart Team           |  cat * | egrep -v "signature virus|infection" 
Position:  Goalie               |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: noir@netcom.com (Noel Ang)
Subject: Re: Is SF imaginative?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:05:49 GMT

In article <21JAN93.14081941@wums.wustl.edu> w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu writes:

 > I saw a play last night entitled "Six Degrees of Separation".
 > One of the many themes of the play was the lack of true
 > imagination in contemporary society.  The main character at
 > one point criticized science fiction and _Star_Wars_ as pathetic
 > excuses for true imagination, which he felt should be something
 > that connects us to the "real world"
 >
 > Is anyone else here familiar with this play?  What do you think?
 > Does SF possess "true imagination"?

I've heard of the play through (favorable) reviews, but I'm not very
familiar with the play.

SF possesses imagination.  Period.  "True" imagination implies an "untrue"
counterpart, which I think is a false dichotomy.  Imagination is creativity,
and that is measured indirectly by criticizing literary mechanics like plot,
character, and grammar.  I can see SF being criticized for mediocre
application of elements such as these, but not for imagination.  SF offers
us the most grandoise images there are.

---
  noel ang        | "Exercise Two:
  noir@netcom.com | There is a field of grain, each stalk perfect, which is
  alhambra ca usa | a field of men.  There is that which is perfect in all
 -----------------| men, common to all, and to find that thing and touch it
  aol bluetokyo   | is to transform all men.  Now ask: is perfection
  cis 71660.2034  | certainty, and are we only perfect when we are dead?"
  gis n.ang       |            --from "Queen of Angels", Greg Bear
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: ANALOG Feb '93
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:37:00 GMT
	<1993Jan23.033056.576@math.ucla.edu>
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu's message of Sat, 23 Jan 93 03:30:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.033056.576@math.ucla.edu> dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:

   Steinn Sigurdsson opinion of the Landis story:

   >One of the more interesting stories I've seen in a
   >while, almost Szaboesque in some way. Wish I had written it :-)
   >And a _must_ read for any reader of sci.space!

     Would you consider the story so great if you did not agree with the
   story's underlying assumptions?

Maybe not, it would depend on whether I was ready for some
challenging literature that made me feel uncomfortable ;-)
 - to borrow from another thread.

     Besides having the obvious moral, what was "good" about the story?
   The SF in it?  What SF?  The quality of the writing?  You would have 
   to be joking.

In some way it was a quintessential form of SF, a very minimalist
approach to the "If this goes on..." sub-genre. A legitimate sub-genre
of SF, in fact arguably the most interesting of the sub-genres.
And, yes, I thought the writing was good. It was stylistically
moderately innovative and I found it captivating, it was not
a story I could put down.

Sorry you didn't like it.

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			Lick Observatory      	*
*  steinly@lick.ucsc.edu 		"standard disclaimer"  	*
*  Ya know... you penguin types offend me. ...			*
*  My Gosh... Life is offensive!!   				*
*  Offensensitivity.		- BB 1984			*
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox)
Subject: Re: Enormous Big Things
Reply-To: jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan M Lennox)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:43:14 GMT

>In article <alien.02jk@acheron.amigans.gen.nz>
alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz writes:
> of any more? (My definition of a "megastructure" is an artifical structure
> comparable in size to a planet or larger. I'm including things like orbital
> towers as well as larger objects like ringworlds.)

This depends on your definition of "structure," but Vernor Vinge's A
FIRE UPON THE DEEP has the interstellar equivalent of Usenet, and
(semi-spoiler)

The Zones of Thought themselves are apparently (though it's not
entirely clear) artificial themselves.  Neither of these, though, is
really a "structure" in a traditional sense, though.

--
Jonathan Lennox
jml12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
From: mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Niven/Pournelle, continued
Date: 23 Jan 93 12:53:16 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>Wow! All these different Niven male/female disparity thingies going on, and
>nobody mentioned the Grendels, where the females (those are the big, ugly
>dragon critters) _eat_ the males (being the samlon - no, i didn't misspell
>that, read the book) and are _much_ more intelligent, agressive, etc.

Sorry, the adults of both sexes eat the young, of both sexes.  Read the book.

>***********         Would I rather be right, or happy?         ***********

Stick to happy, I always do. :-)
-- 
 ',' ' ',','  |                                                  |  ',' ' ',','
   ', ,','    |       Del Cotter       mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk      |    ', ,','  
     ','      |                                                  |      ','    
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Subject: Re: Dumarest of Terra
Keywords: Dumarest Tubb series titles
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:46:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.190030.4063@sei.cmu.edu> tokarj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Joyce Tokar) writes:
>I am trying to complete my "Dumarest of Terra" collection.  I have
>the list of titles up to number 31.  Could anyone knowing the complete
>list append the final titles (and insert the missing ones).
>
>Thanks
>
>01 The Winds of Gath		17 Prison of Night
>02 Derai			18 Incident on Ath
>03 Toyman			19 Quillian Sector, The
>04 Kalin			20 Web of Sand
>05 Jester at Scar		21 Iduna's Universe
>06 Lallia			22 Terra Data, The
>07 Technos			23 World of Promise
>08 Veruchia			24 Nectar of Heaven
>09 Mayenne			25 Terridae, The
>10 Jondelle			26 Coming Event, The
>11 Zenya			27 
>12 Eloise			28 Melome
>13 Eye of the Zodiac		29 Angado
>14 Jack of Swords		30 
>15 Spectrum of a Forgotten Sun	31 Temple of Truth, The
>16 Haven of Darkness 

  #27 is Earth is Heaven (none of these "books" requires
  underlining, you know), in which Dumarest of Terra is
  once again fooled as to the identity of the planet he 
  is on, thinking (and very nicely according to formula
  too) that it is Earth.  Once again there is a Side Issue
  that must be resolved before he can find out he was
  wrong and proceed on to #28.

  I am astonished, but secretly thrilled, that you collect
  these.

  Sorry I can provide no further information.

  Wayne
  

  Oh hell, why not.  My #27 has a great cover, showing a lean
  and muscular Dumarest in a skintight suit backed against a
  rocky ledge with these great looking bat/humanoid looking
  characters flying at him.  It is DAW #510, and Michael
  Mariano is the artist. 

  None of the other covers is as interesting, all harbor
  a suitably posing, enticingly buxom victim, with Dumarest
  standing protectively in the foreground, often wearing
  bubble helmet and skintight suit (she of course
  wears no helmet, and very little else).

  Yet they weren't written *all* that badly, were they.  The
  catch, Joyce,  is that you only need one.  :)
From: cjohnson@EDWARDS-SCY.AF.MIL (Cyndi Johnson  7-0356, 6500 SW/SCXX)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brin's 'The Postman'
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:47:06 GMT

> What is the reason/idea/symbolism behind the bear patch which the captured
> supposedly Californian soldier is wearing? Something obvious which I missed
> or something slightly more subtle?
>
      Not remembering _The Postman_ that well, I can't comment on anything
      subtle; but as a couple million Californians have probably already
      pointed out, the grizzly bear is the state symbol.

      Cyndi Johnson
      cjohnson@edwards-scy.af.mil
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler)
Subject: Re: The Bear Flag Revolt
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:40:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.145411.10426@ac.dal.ca> hyde@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1jk9ov$mul@agate.berkeley.edu>, cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>> In article <1993Jan20.191011.10687@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>>>
>>>California--which was briefly independent--has a bear on the state
>>>flag.
>> 
>> When he says "briefly" he means "for about three days", and it was a
>> put-up job: California declared itself independent from Mexico, waited
>> a couple of days, and petitioned to join the U.S.
>> 
>
>
>	Or to be more exact, a few dozen american immigrants
>	declared california to be independent from mexico.  The vast
>	bulk of the population disagreed.  The parallel with the
>	iraqui-installed "government" in Kuwait two years ago
>	is very close.
>
>	If I could set followups with this software, I'd set them
>	to Soc.History, which badly needs a discussion/flamewar
>	which is not about greeks/turks/armenians/nazis.

I did it for you.

This is interesting flame material.

Tim
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:29:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.221339.19643@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>,  (David Ingham) writes:
> In article <1993Jan25.183058.21079@cc.gatech.edu>, erica@cc.gatech.edu
> (Erica Liebman Sadun) wrote:
>> (3) Who was Mat? In rereading, I realize that he can't be King Arthur because
>> 	Art is one of the dead heroes that stops by to say hi y'all and 
>> 	call Rand Lewin.  My guess is aemon.  Clues: Red Eagle, massive
>> 	gambler and that battle scene against the thousands of ravening
>> 	trollocs.
> 
> Mat was only made one of the heroes after he was separated from the Dagger
> by the White Tower.  Notice in the first two books he didn't show any signs
> of his luck or speaking in the old tounge.  Kind of like a time distortion.
>  Maybe aemon was his great, great , great etc. grandfather.

The way I saw things happening was that when they removed the dagger from Mat,
somehow the 'barriers', for lack of a better word, between Mat-present and 
Mat-past were weakened.  Thus, he was able to get "glimpses" of the past, by
his speaking in tongues, et al.  When he entered the sa'angreal in Rhuidean,
he asked for an end to a memory blockage he had (an aftereffect of the Aes
Sedai healing, for lack of a better cause), and it was granted...all the way
back in time, giving him access to all of his past lives.

As for his luck, I dunno on that one.  Maybe it is a byproduct of his blowing
the Horn, maybe it is just something like what happened to Perrin (my guess).
I haven't seen anything to explain this one.
 
-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
From: Elistan+@CMU.EDU (Mark Alan Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:11:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.cfNQIh200Uh707Mq4P
	<1jvv04$1m7@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


    I have a question about an event in the fourth book.  In Alcair Dal,
Rand planned to reveal himself as the Car'a'carn.  However, Couladin
somehow gets the two tatoos and claims that he is the Car'a'carn. 
However, acording to prophecy, once the Dragon proclaims himself, there
will be no more False Dragons.  If this means that Couladin is not a
False Dragon, just what is he?



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Mark Lang                       |  ml5t+@andrew.cmu.edu            |
|  elistan+@cmu.edu                |  elistan@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written