HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seiferth@rufous.cs.unm.edu (Justin Seiferth)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: A Survey: What Language Did You Learn First?
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:48:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: rufous.BvrD9D.JpD
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of New Mexico

I suspect this is the right group for my question.  Please take the time
to e-mail me (seiferth@rufous.cs.unm.edu) a short response!

I'm taking a survey for a paper I'm writing on the choice of (computer)
languages for introductory computing classes for CS students. If you'd
respond by letting me know what language you were introduced to I'd 
appreciate it.

If you thought the choice was a particularly good (or bad) one, please
let me know why.  I'm interested in the diversity and rationale behind
your answers.

Thanks...
seiferth@rufous.cs.unm.edu
From: pronk@dutiws.tudelft.nl (C.Pronk.TI-tel-1803)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: e-mail address req.
Keywords: address request
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:50:33 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology,The Netherlands

Could someone help me with the e-mail address of David. A Watt
(Author of Programming Languages and Paradigms)
Thanks in advance,
Kees Pronk.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: branagh@cs.mcgill.ca (Wayne BRANAGH)
Subject: Asyst and the parallel port
Keywords: Asyst, interfacing 
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 05:12:45 GMT

Hi.

An associate is trying to interface a couple of PC's via the parallel
ports using Asyst, and he's running into some problems. 

If someone out there has done this, would you mind letting me know? He's
been plugging away at it for a while and he's near the end of his rope.

Thanks in advance,

Wayne
branagh@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca
From: crowl@jade.CS.ORST.EDU (Lawrence Crowl)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Matematical notation (was Goals, Cost, and Flexibility)
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:17:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: CS.1992Oct13.011738.1367
Organization: Oregon State University, Corvallis Oregon

In article <BvpCAJ.Dy1@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.105741.26289@bnr.co.uk>
>pgh@bnr.co.uk (Peter Hamer) writes:
>>1) Maths, and physics, has tended to use single-letter names for variables.
>>   [Often using multiple fonts and alphabets as they run out of names.] It
>>   is difficult to see how the current layout rules generalise to longer
>>   variable names.
>
>This is a problem, but less of a problem than stated.  Mathematicians and
>those who use mathematics are also used to subscripting, superscripting, 
>and other means for extending the set.  At least in set theory, it is not
>unusual to use multi-letter names, and I think that getting mathematicians
>to do that would not be all that difficult.  But I think that they would
>object to the types of names that the CS people like to push, where one
>is spending more time typing the names than programming :-).

This difference between what CS people push and what math/physics
people use stems from a difference in environment.  Math/physics people
tend to operate in a an environment (paper, etc.) with at most a couple
dozen variables.  In this environment, single letter variable names
mean that more complex equations can appear in the same visual space,
which enhances readability.  CS folks work in an environment (payroll
program) with a couple _thousand_ variables.  In the latter
environment, you have no hope of getting a significant fraction of
those variables in the visual space, and self-documenting variable
names (which is not quite the same as long...) enhance readability, and
therefore reduce the time to get the job done.

Trying to find one notation that serves such diverse environments is
not easy.
-- 
  Lawrence Crowl		503-737-2554	Computer Science Department
			   crowl@cs.orst.edu	Oregon State University
	      ...!hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!crowl	Corvallis, Oregon,  97331-3202
From: tmb@arolla.idiap.ch (Thomas M. Breuel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Matematical notation (was Goals, Cost, and Flexibility)
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:38:29 GMT
	<1992Oct13.011738.1367@CS.ORST.EDU> <Bw2I3B.L1n@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
	<SPACKMAN.92Oct14140403@disco-sol.dfki.uni-sb.de>
Reply-To: tmb@idiap.ch
Organization: IDIAP (Institut Dalle Molle d'Intelligence Artificielle
	Perceptive)
In-reply-to: spackman@disco-sol.dfki.uni-sb.de's message of 14 Oct 92 13:02:00 GMT

In article <SPACKMAN.92Oct14140403@disco-sol.dfki.uni-sb.de> spackman@disco-sol.dfki.uni-sb.de (Stephen Spackman) writes:

   And languages like C that are constantly forcing you up against
   the inane 32-character identifier limit just so that you can be
   tolerably sure your names won't collide are absurd.

While I agree that there should be no limit on the number of
characters in an identifier, making identifiers longer is not a
feasible solution to the name collision problem. Regardless of how
long you make your identifiers, there are bound to be conflicts
between different libraries.

The right solution is to provide module systems that are powerful
enough to deal with the problem. Sadly, few module systems are (most
of them avoid name conflicts at the identifier level and reintroduce
them at the module level).

					Thomas.
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Matematical notation (was Goals, Cost, and Flexibility)
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:27:58 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <BEVAN.92Oct14164930@otter.cs.man.ac.uk> bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan) writes:
>In article <Bw2I3B.L1n@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

			......................

>I must be missing the point here as I though any old Mac/PC could
>display all the mathematical symbols you want providing your WP
>software is capable which I'm told many are (I use LaTeX myself so I'm
>not well versed in the latest WYSIAWYG systems).

You could use it on your machine, and you could send it to another machine
of the same type using the same word processor, but even changing word
processors on the Mac involves work.  Sending the file to, say, an IBM/PC
which also has multiple fonts, or converting the file to TeX, is not 
a routine task.  The problem is that, unlike TeX or LaTeX, the characters
and font information in the file are not in serial order, and finding the
order of the characters, the font information, etc., is not easy.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: ADL Programming Language
From: <REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 14:57:43 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Does anyone know how I can obtain information on Adl or Apl programming
language?
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: Matematical notation (was Goals, Cost, and Flexibility)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:37:16 GMT

In article <SPACKMAN.92Oct14140403@disco-sol.dfki.uni-sb.de> stephen@acm.org writes:
> And languages like C that are constantly forcing you up against
> the inane 32-character identifier limit...

Geeze, you're *REALLY* hate the old 8-, 7-, 6- and even 5- character limits
imposed by linkers on older operating systems, and go totally bonkers trying
to deal with Polyforth (it just kept *three* characters plus length (just to
confuse you), so most programs tended to look like:

	: foo dup rot fcp @ 93 + sta get @+ over 77 std +! cls sta ;

I don't know why Herman is so down on Forth. It seems to fulfill most of his
requirements admirably. You can even have words like :-> and -8'D (punk rocker
wearing glasses laughing out loud in profile).
-- 
Peter da Silva                                         `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                              'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012           "Heeft u vandaag al uw wolf geknuffeld?"
+1 713 274 5180                       "Tjener, denne ret er stadig levende."
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Matematical notation (was Goals, Cost, and Flexibility)
Date: 9 Oct 1992 22:56:42 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Robert Bernecky) writes:
: >This is even a problem for mathematicians.  Again, something sensible 
: >should be done, and the sensible thing will not be found by ignoring the
: >mathematicians.
: 
: Look at APL and J. They are generalizations of mathematical notation
: which have the advantage of being executable notations.

C'mon, tell the truth here:

They are new notations invented ab initio with an obstinate disregard of
mathematical convention, software engineering, and human considerations.

Other than that, they're great, and yes, they can do nearly anything, and
more things than nearly anything else.

(unwarranted snide comment follows)
What does it say if a translator from J to LaTeX is used to make things
*clearer*?

: Robert Bernecky      rbe@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.com  bernecky@itrchq.itrc.on.ca 
: Snake Island Research Inc  (416) 368-6944   FAX: (416) 360-4694 
: 18 Fifth Street, Ward's Island
: Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9 
: Canada

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
Xref: sparky comp.lang.misc:3244 de.comp.lang.misc:63
From: kling@kksys.han.de (Konrad Kling @ kksys)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc,de.comp.lang.misc
Subject: Grafik-Tools bzw. Lib's fuer Clipper 5.01 gesucht.
Keywords: Grafik, Clipper
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:17:58 GMT
Distribution: sub


Hilfe.........!

Software mit Grafik-Unterstuetzung fuer den Clipper gibt es wie Sand
am Meer, allerdings auch eine Menge "Schrott" ( wie ich bereits
gehoert habe ). Da ich zur Zeit gerade keinen "Schrott" gebrauchen
kann bitte ich alle diejenigen um eine EMail, die bereits einschlaegige
Erfahrungen ( positiv oder auch negativ ) gemacht haben.
Eine Zusammenfassung wuerde ich, entsprechendes Interesse vorausgesetzt,
posten.

mfg K.Kling

PS: Gibt es eigendlich eine "Clipper"-Gruppe, oder wird mir da etwas
	von meinem News-Feeder vorenthalten?
-- 
 _   _        _   _                           I really hate this damn machine.
| | / /      | | / /                          I wish that they would sell it.
| < <        | < <                            It never does quite what I mean,
|_| \_\onrad |_| \_\ling  kling@kksys.han.de  But only what I tell it.
From: ccmlh@buitc.bu.edu (Mark Hayes)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: PL/1 book references wanted
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:04:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: bu.98137
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <97541@bu.edu> ccmlh@buitc.bu.edu (Mark Hayes) writes:
>I'm looking for a book on PL/1, for someone who knows nothing about
>that particular language, but is experienced in a number of others,
>including IBM REXX (which is hear is somewhat PL/1-like).

OK, I've acquired a set of IBM reference manuals, but what I could
really use at this point is some sample code. Could some kind souls
possibly mail me a PL/1 program or two, so I could see the language
in action?

Thanks again, y'all,

   Mark Hayes
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: ADL Programming Language
From: <REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 15 Oct 1992 10:30:41 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

This is regarding APL programming language.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: goer@quads.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: sortf - sortff?
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:03:20 GMT

Version 8 of Icon has sortf.  Seems useful.  But what if you want to
sort on more than one field (e.g. if field 5 is the same, use field
4, etc.)?  What might be the most effective strategy for this sort of
thing?

(I have to do things like this fairly often, so it's not just an idle
question.)

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: Re: confusing errors
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:56:11 GMT
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>...why don't all languages do it?
>>
>>Makes about as much sense as automatic plus insertion or automatic
>>atanh() insertion, if you ask me.
>
>I didn't ask, Stephen...

Actually, I did ask, albeit rhetorically.  Apologies :-).

> Some terminals map to nodes
>in the abstract syntax tree; some only demarcate expressions.  When and
>if they are superfluous, they should be eliminated, as long as doing so
>does not render the language more opaque...

...and does not dramatically increases the size of the grammar and/or
its associated parse tables.

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: pmoore@cix.compulink.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Subject: Private data in Icon modules
Reply-To: pmoore@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:03:20 +0000


Sorry if this has appeared twice - I haven't seen it reach the outside
world, so I suspect my news poster has broken...

I am considering writing a program in Icon, where a number of procedres
will be ideal candidates for separate compilation and incorporation into
a library of useful procedures. The main problem is that a number of the
functions involved need to make significant use of shared data, but I do
not want this shared data to be visible to users of the procedures (for
a one-use situation, this is not a problem, but for a library routine, I
do not want numerous internal names cluttering up the global namespace).

An ideal solution would be an equivalent of the C "static" construct at
file scope.

It seems to me that the addition of such a feature would be relatively
easy. The grammar would need to include a new reserved word, "private"
(say). This would be exactly equivalent to "global" in the syntax, but
the interpreter would generate a new UCODE instruction for it. In the
linker, the new PRIVATE instruction would be treated just like GLOBAL
for the purposes of data space allocation, etc, but the name would not
be visible outside the defining module (ie, instances of PRIVATE
declarations with the same name would NOT be merged - nor would PRIVATE
and GLOBAL declarations be merged).

I have considered adding this feature myself, as it seems relatively
simple, but the lack of a production-quality yacc has made the grammar
changes a problem so far.

It would probably also be of benefit to allow "private procedure" and
"private record" declarations. These would be somewhat more complex, but
should not pose major problems.

Does anybody have any comments? I have not considered the implications
for the compiler, as I do not yet have any experience with it.

One point on the compiler - I gather the "link" instruction in the
compiler acts as source-code inclusion, rather than link-time merging.
Does this imply that iconc generates single-file, monolithic C code, or
is it possible to independently compile icon source files, to produce
linkable .o files? I would hope the latter, but my reading of the
documentation I have available is not clear...

To be specific, can I compile

test.icn
----------
procedure test(n)
   return n+1
end
----------

to a file test.o which, when linked with object from other Icon
compiles, plus the Icon run-time system, will provide a procedure test()
which other Icon procedures can use?

I would appreciate comments on any of the above...

Paul Moore.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Moore (pmoore@cix.compulink.co.uk)   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Programming is the process of debugging an empty source file
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: confusing errors
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:59:39 GMT

stephen@acm.org writes:

>|If anybody find the Icon tokenizer interesting (automatic semicolon inser-
>|tion is really a great idea - why don't all languages do it?), then here's
>|a fun program.
>
>Makes about as much sense as automatic plus insertion or automatic
>atanh() insertion, if you ask me.

I didn't ask, Stephen, but since you interject I respond with a basic
remark about tokens and their semantics:  Some terminals map to nodes
in the abstract syntax tree; some only demarcate expressions.  When and
if they are superfluous, they should be eliminated, as long as doing so
does not render the language more opaque.

Opacity is a subjective judgment, of course, so let's check to see if
you know Icon in the first place.  Can you illustrate where automatic
semicolon insertion might render Icon source code less readable, or
introduce unexpected behavior?  I'm waiting....

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Subject: Re: Private data in Icon modules
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:24:21 GMT

In article <memo.672000@cix.compulink.co.uk> pmoore@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>Sorry if this has appeared twice - I haven't seen it reach the outside
>world, so I suspect my news poster has broken...
>
>I am considering writing a program in Icon, where a number of procedres
>will be ideal candidates for separate compilation and incorporation into
>a library of useful procedures. The main problem is that a number of the
>functions involved need to make significant use of shared data, but I do
>not want this shared data to be visible to users of the procedures...

You know, ISI did an Icon implementation for UNIX/386 that has module-
level scoping.  It was (is) a great idea.

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: confusing errors
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:08:17 GMT
Reply-To: goer@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


Hmmm.  Anybody know offhand why the Icon translator should accept the
following file...

    link sprint
    global run
    record walk ( crawl )
    procedure main () ; end

...but barf on this:

    link sprint ; global run ; record walk ( crawl ) ; procedure main () ; end

I guess I thought that reserved were initially parsed as identifiers, and
then converted to reserved words by a table lookup process.  That would
make them able to begin and end expressions.  Hence you'd expect automatic
semicolon insertion after things like "link sprint" - right?  I'm probably
missing something silly, but I'm curious what it is.

-- 

   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer
From: spackman@disco-sol.dfki.uni-sb.de (Stephen Spackman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.icon
Subject: Re: confusing errors
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:05:15 GMT
	<1992Oct12.173604.3765@midway.uchicago.edu>
Reply-To: stephen@acm.org
Organization: DFKI Saarbruecken GmbH, D-W 6600 Saarbruecken

In article <1992Oct12.173604.3765@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:
|If anybody find the Icon tokenizer interesting (automatic semicolon inser-
|tion is really a great idea - why don't all languages do it?), then here's
|a fun program.

Makes about as much sense as automatic plus insertion or automatic
atanh() insertion, if you ask me.

Hi goer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
stephen p spackman                                       stephen@acm.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:13:42 EDT
From:         TREY@IBMH1.ORL.MMC.COM
Subject:      Re: RxMessageBox in Rexx for OS/2 2.0?
Comments: To: REXXLIST@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU

>>I'm trying to use some of the RexxUtils functions under OS/2 2.0, and am
>>haveing some trouble.  What's wrong with the following Rexx procedure?

>>if RxMessageBox("Log off the Network?", ,  "OKCANCEL","
>>EXCLAMATION") = 2 Then Exit
>>It gives me the following error message:
>>REX0040: Error 40 running C:\lanman\netprog\LOG.CMD, line 5:
>>Incorrect call to routine
>>Any ideas?

>>Try keeping the quotes matched up on each line.  Write it like this.
>>if RxMessageBox("Log off the Network?", ,  "OKCANCEL",
>>  "EXCLAMATION") = 2 Then Exit
Sorry, I spoke before I woke up this morning.
You require a comma at the end to tell the parser to continue to the
next line. I am not familiar with your the RxMessageBox function, but
if OKCANCEL and EXCLAMATION are separate parameters you should write
the call like this:
if RxMessageBox("Log off the Network?", ,  "OKCANCEL,",
  "EXCLAMATION") = 2 Then Exit


Trey Bowman
Martin Marietta Information Systems
P.O. Box 590385  MP 1714
Orlando, Florida  32859-0385
Voice:(407)356-4965    Fax:(407)356-7298
OV/VM: TREY at MMDSH   Internet: TREY@IBMH1.ORL.MMC.COM
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:03:56 BST
From:         Mike Cowlishaw <mfc@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Is REXX Copyright?
Comments: To: rexxlist@uga.uga.edu

The REXX language itself is not copyright.  However, the code (and
perhaps some of the algorithms used in implementations) may well be
copyright or protected by patents.  The books describing REXX and
its implementations are, in general copyright (for example, my book
"The REXX Language" is Copyright 1990 Prentice-Hall).

In short, yes, you can write and sell a REXX language processor.  You
will need to be sure you're not using any code or documentation from
some one else's implementation, unless you have the appropriate
licence in place.  (For example, more than one vendor has licensed a
special edition of my book, to serve as the reference documentation
for their products.)

Mike Cowlishaw
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU