HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsb@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: "info on 93 Probe wanted"
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:11:52 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

In article <1992Aug30.040322.27000@informix.com>, aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) writes:
> In article <ellisk.714804508@fido.Colorado.EDU> ellisk@fido.Colorado.EDU writes: 

>>I'm not an owner (yet!) but I will say that after having looked at and
>>driven just about everything in the Probe's class, it comes out tops in
>>price/performance.  It's extremely satisfying to drive, moreso than even
>>the VW Corrado SLC, the Talon TSi AWD, or the Honda Prelude, and it's
>>cheaper than all of them (not including Talon rebates).  I am a little
> 
> In one of the current rags (Road and Track?), five of their reviewers
> compare the Probe GT and four competitors.  *All* picked the Probe GT when
> price was considered, and 3 picked the Probe GT regardless of price.

In many areas of a subjective comparison, it's not hard to imagine that 
the Probe might come out high on the list... However, if you're talking 
about real figures when it comes to price/performance, the Probe has
much more formidable competition that you might like to believe.
If you're gonna look at car rags, and what they say, you ought to
take a look at the new Motor Trend "bang for the buck" issue. In
a technically and performance oriented comparison, the Probe GT finished
7th, while two less expensive cars still out-performed it. (Mustang LX -
6th place, and 2WD Diamond Star turbo - 1st place)

Now, this doesn't mean that either of these cars is "better" than the
Probe, or that they are a better value... Ultimately, that gets decided
based on an individuals personal tastes and preferences. A great many 
people could care less how well a car performs in a slamon, or how
quick it accelerates. They might be more interested in the styling, and
how easy it is to drive around town... Their "best" is based on a totally
different set of criteria. This is the kinda of subjective "best" that
the Probe GT would have to fit into, because a purely technical analysis
will show that it falls short of several of its competitors.

My own personal apprasial of the Probe GT is that it's a good quiet
touring GT with a smooth engine and mildly sporty suspension. An
all-out fire breathing dragstrip/racecourse monster it ain't.

Greg Granville
jsb@ecl.psu.edu
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Spending More to Buy "Better" Cars
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:25:26 GMT
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

>>   Does "d" from the BMW stands for a type of truck fuel?  If so, I pity the
>>   intelligence of those whose heads are turned by this car.
> 
>No, they're turning their heads AWAY from the car so they don't have
>to breathe the diesel smoke. :-)

No, they're turning their heads to look at the scenery, which they have
plenty of time to do if they're behind it in a no-passing zone.  :)
It's just like a BMW, only a lot slower.

Actually, the move toward passenger-car diesels made sense back in the
late 70s, when it looked as though we were all going to be paying $5 a
gallon for putrefied Crisco and glad to get it.  In the US, diesel fuel
also enjoyed a large advantage in fuel taxes.  

But neither of these situations held true for long. The members of OPEC
enjoyed petty bickering among themselves more than they enjoyed money.
Then the government figured out that if diesel taxes were raised such
that the total price of diesel was comparable to that of gas, a lot of
truckers would complain but nobody would really DO anything.  And 
small diesels had a bad reputation in the US, poisoned by the wretched
gas-engine-based offering from General Motors -- an engine that, in its
first version, exasperated owners literally threw away and replaced
with gas engines. 

When these trends converged in the early 80s, most of the newly marketed 
passenger-car diesels (Volvo, Isuzu, Nissan, BMW...) couldn't survive the 
pinch, even though some of them were quite good.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ellisk@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Michael K. Ellis)
Subject: Re: need info on all-new Ford Probe GT
Reply-To: ellisk@fido.Colorado.EDU
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:16:39 GMT

jkosone1@vipunen.hut.fi (Jussi T Kosonen) writes:

>When is this car to be put on sale??
>I have seen some advertisements about it and I know that it is -93 model
>but usually next year models are released month or two earlier...

It's on sale now. (I just ordered one from the factory.)  Test drive
one, you'll love it.

>Have someone seen it 'in flesh`??
> is it as good looking as it looks in pictures?
>And what is the estimated price for GT model???

I consider it to be a very good looking car.  Some don't, but they can
feel free to pay $4-6k more for the MX-6 for the same performance.  It
drives and handles (in GT form) beautifully.  My only fault with the
car, other than the time I'm going to be waiting for it to be delivered,
is that it should be available in a better color green than the really
odd color I saw in the showroom.  It was kind of a wimpy light green.  I
ordered the electric blue metallic instead.  You can write Consumer
Reports at 

	Consumer Reports Auto Price Service
	P.O. Box 8005
	Novi, MI 48376

for a price list, both the MSRP and actual dealer cost.  I found it very
helpful when bargaining for my Probe.  As a primer, base MSRP cost is
$15,174, while the actual dealer cost is $13,692.  You can probably
extrapolate from there.  The price list costs $11 for the first one, $9
for the second, and I believe $7 for the third.  Make sure to specify
Make and Model (1993 Ford Probe GT vs. 1993 Ford Probe).  There are
other car price guides out there as well.  I used CR and I'm very happy
with the results.

--
Michael K. Ellis
ellisk@fido.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Cavalier Brake Problem and Question
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:40:46 GMT
Keywords: cavalier, brakes

In article <1992Sep1.172149.305@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> edwin@csri.toronto.edu (Edwin Allum) writes:

>"Disc brake pulsation can be largely due to one or more of the following
>operating conditions resulting in rust or corrosion build-up on the
>rotors:
>
>(a)	Infrequent use
>(b)	Extended periods in which the vehicle is not used
>(c)	Primary usage of the vehicle in a city environment (very few
>	high speed stops)
>
>Since these conditions are a product of the way the vehicle is being
>used, and the effects of the environment in creating corrosion (salt,
>humidity, etc.), repairs to correct these conditions are not considered
>warrantable."

ie disk brakes, as designed, are not capable of maintaining satisfactory
structural integrity under what most people would call totally
realistic driving conditions.

Again I say disk brakes are for the birds!
Long live 4 wheel drum breaks!
(110K miles and no warping yet!) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: epc1@quads.uchicago.edu (Merlin)
Subject: Re: HONDA CIVIC BASHING C
Reply-To: epc1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:02:49 GMT

In article <9058.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim)  writes:
> I agree 100% with you on spending a couple of thousand more and getting
>a European or a BMW.  
>For a little more, it's worth the money for a European and the prestige
								^^^^^^^^
>of a BMW.  I have a BMW 524td (1985) and an Acura Integra GS (1991),  I
>turn more heads driving that old 4-door sedan Bimmer than I get with my
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>clean and shiny 3dr hatchback Integra. 

>workmanship on the Bimmer far exceeds the one on the Lexus and they're
>built better.  Sure, the Lexus is faster, more space, more comfortable,
>and is supposed to have no maintance problems.  For the price of a Q45,
>I would rather get a MB 300e, BMW 535i, or a  Jaguar XJ6.
>

Some of us are not interested in "impressing" and "turning other people's
head".  I, for one, do the things that I do because I want to do
it.  I, and most of the people I respect, do not care for the opinions 
and admirations of others if this admiration is based on the type
of car I drive and how I'm dressed and how much money I flaunt.

In addition, I don't understand you last couple of sentences.  How
can the workmanship on the BMW be better if, as you say, the Lexus
"is faster, more spac[ious], more comfortable, and... [has] no 
maintenance problems"? 

It certainly seems like you're thinking with an inflamed ego and
very little objectivity.

Think about what you're saying next time.

-- 
En Pum Cho					
University of Chicago Class of 1994
math & economics major
epc1@midway.uchicago.edu
From: twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What the curious saw at the local Dodge dealership
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:33:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Valley Computer Society, Sunnyvale, CA

From article <jimf.715359394@centerline.com>, by jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost):

[stuff deleted]

> She should be able to easily achieve and maintain 130 (assuming the
> terrain is reasonable).  I'm not terribly familiar with the Acclaim,
> but unless the 1984 RX-7 is a lot different from the 1986 model she
> lost only because she didn't drive it right.
> 
> Remember that the Wankel engines can really wind up.

The `84 model rx-7 is completely different from the 1986.  In '86,
Mazda redesigned the entire car using a Porsche 944'ish styling and
a much better aerodynamic profile.  The earlier RX-7`s can wind up but
don't make much power in that range (because they just don't make
much power period, in stock form).

--twc@legal.uucp

P.S. The '87 or later RX-7 Turbo's will all go past 130...  Well, at least
mine does.

Xref: sparky rec.autos:21251 rec.autos.tech:12087 rec.autos.sport:9498 rec.autos.driving:5238 alt.autos.antique:1640 news.answers:2738
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: US CARS FOR SALE IN UK
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:46:55 GMT
	<1992Sep4.140835.1@sdl.mdcbbs.com>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: lorena@sdl.mdcbbs.com's message of 4 Sep 92 13:08:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.140835.1@sdl.mdcbbs.com> lorena@sdl.mdcbbs.com writes:

   We pay around 2.something a gallon, or 52p a litre...

Which is, let's see - US gallon is 4/5 the size... $2 to 1 pound... about
$3.94 per US gallon.  Which is a lot more than I remember it being in the USA
when I was on holiday.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: petel+@cs.cmu.edu (Peter Lee)
Subject: Re: Mitsubishi 3000GT-VR4, Toyota MR-2 Turbo
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:20:08 GMT

In article <Sep01.013708.19206@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>The key is that the Ferrari can be driven to its limit and beyond
>(where it oversteers) under full control of its driver because of its
>benign and communicative chassis, precise and talkative steering and
>also its delicate throttle.  The kind of oversteer in the Ferrari that
>CAR is talking about is the kind where the driver is in control; there
>is great pleasure to be had balancing a car on its knife's edge of
>adhesion.  In the MR2 they are referring to a sudden, unexpected and
>*uncontrollable* snap of its tail.  Very different situations but
>referred to by the same word.

Well, I don't know for sure, but it is very easy for me (an owner of an
MR2) to believe that the MR2 does *not* drive like a Ferrari.  (I actually
got to drive a Ferrari 308 once, but wasn't in the mood to risk driving it
really hard.)  Perhaps the MR2 is similar in straight-line acceleration.
(And even then, the Ferrari is much, much, louder and macho-sounding.  :-)
There are also differences in interior comfort --- the MR2 headlights won't
suddenly turn off when you roll over a bump (like happened to me in the
308!).

It's a bit unfair to say that the MR2 experiences _unexpected_ oversteer.
If you lift-throttle near the limit, the car *will* snap around.  If you
are ready for this, you can usually catch it by getting back on the
throttle.  This is especially effective in an autocross situation, where
you aren't going very fast.  I don't know if I would have the presence of
mind to catch this at very high speed, with nothing but a 200-foot drop at
the edge of the road...

As someone else mentioned, this snap oversteer has supposedly been "tamed"
in the most recent version of the MR2.  I don't know what this does for
ultimate speed through turns, however.  But all in all, it sounds like a
definite improvement to an already great car.

Peter
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Camry dealer cost?
From: mweir@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:59:38 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Does anyone know if there is any factory to dealer rebate for the
 '92 Toyota Camry (Wgn),
 given that the '93 cars will be coming out soon?
Please send email to MWEIR@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU     
Thanks. 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: elaine@mote.Berkeley.EDU (Elaine Serina)
Subject: buying a new car: 240SX, Eclipse, NX2000
Reply-To: elaine@mote.Berkeley.EDU (Elaine Serina)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:44:10 GMT

Hi,

I'm planning to buy a car in the next week or two and would like
some suggestions/comments.  The cars I'm considering are the:

	* Nissan 240SX: base model
	* Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
	* NX2000

I'd like a 5-spd with AC, minimum, and cruise control, if reasonably
priced.  I also heard that Nissan is giving factory to dealer 
rebates until September.  Any suggestions on the best way to get a
good deal?

Also, someone told me about "hold back" money that dealer's get
when selling a car.  Therefore, they can still get a profit if they
sell the car below invoice.  Is that correct?

Please respond on the net or by email.  Thanks in advance!

				Elaine (elaine@mote.berkeley.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: newso584@Armstrong.EDU (Robert Newsome)
Subject: Re: THE DOOR HORROR
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:50:05 GMT

I don't know about you, but if I pay 16-18,000 for a car, I am certainly going
to be worried about some idiot that bangs his door on my new car.  I believe in
taking the utmost care of all my belongings and no one should deprive me of that
privilege.


-Robert
From: dlou@ECE.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Laser RS Turbo...C/D's Best Bang for the Buck Winner...
Keywords: Or are they mistaken in all this???
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:40:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Aug26.220027.11038@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> smith@comm.mot.com (Jeff Smith) writes:
>As I recall, the 300ZX WAS involved, as were the Stealth and 3000GT.

This is what clued me off that this was a totally bogus comparison.
Comparing the same car from different dealers (they also compared 
Mitsu's Laser twin and I think the Foord Pobe Mazda MX6 pair were
there too)in this particular context was pointless.


--
Dennis Lou             || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dlou@ucsd.edu          || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou   |+====================================================
dlou@ucsd.BITNET       |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
From: sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Spending More to Buy "Better" Cars
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:33:11 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>>For a little more, it's worth the money for a European and the prestige
>>of a BMW.  I have a BMW 524td (1985) and an Acura Integra GS (1991),  I
			^^^^^^^
>>turn more heads driving that old 4-door sedan Bimmer than I get with my
>>clean and shiny 3dr hatchback Integra.

Does "d" from the BMW stands for a type of truck fuel?  If so, I pity the
intelligence of those whose heads are turned by this car.

Vikas Sontakke		Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA.
Internet:		sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com
    uucp:		{decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!helix.enet!sontakke
			sontakke%helix.enet@decwrl.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Subject: Infinity G20
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 18:33:45 GMT

A friend is looking into buying a 92 G20.  Any comments about the Infinity G20?
I would specially appreciate feedback from G20 owners.

Thanks

-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young)
Subject: Re: $758 for an oil change?
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:58:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.215551.4386@tsoft.sf-bay.org> meiboy@tsoft.sf-bay.org (MeiBoy of UCU) writes:
>Usually when I take my car to the Ford dealer every 7500 miles for
>sheduled maintenance, it costs about $170 and it includes
>oil change, checking the hoses, battery, etc., lubing the chassis,
>and rotating the tires.  
>But today, I took my car in for the 30,000 mile sheduled maintenance
>service and the  guy told me it will cost $758.  And this is not
>for fixing anything.
>Can anybody tell me what they do at 30,000 mi. that they don't
>do at other mileages on Ford cars?
>Has any other Ford owners experienced the same thing at their
>30,000 mile maintenance?

Go to jiffy-lube,and rotate the tires yourself,and you'll save
about $135.00.
For $170.00,they should change the timing belt!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Alfa vs. the world
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:01:17 GMT


In article <laa4olINNpto@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM 
(Chris Prael) writes:
|> From article <9209011908.AA18775@worf>, by dlou@ECE.UCSD.EDU (Dennis Lou):
|> > In article <BOWERS.92Sep1103255@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
|> >>[in the intrest of maintaining the balance of power in the long
|> >>standing feud between Alfa Romeo (the best!) and BMW (the worst! :-)].
|> 
|> Al, you have a very active imagination.
|> 
|> > Strange, I thought Alfa's traditional competitor was Porsche...
|> 
|> From the mid 50s to the early 80's.  For example, it is quite obvious
|> that the 924 was a response to (and near copy of) the Alfetta and the 
|> 944 was a response to (and near copy of) the GTV6.
|>  
I'm not sure I would agree with this characterization. True, both the
944 and GTV6 are 2+2 hatchbacks with a rear mounted gearbox. But they
are styled very differently. And the engines, although not far apart
in displacement, HP, and torque ratings, have noticeably different 
powerbands. Of course, we are talking about a 4 and a V6. I have driven 
both (and owned the Alfa), and to me they are not the same concept. 

- BK
Xref: sparky rec.autos:21290 rec.autos.tech:12109 misc.consumers:16018 sci.environment:11003 talk.environment:3521
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,misc.consumers,sci.environment,talk.environment
Subject: Re: Carburetors, gasoline, and why I don't recycle
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:46:59 GMT
	<2AA544AE.27353@ics.uci.edu>
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <2AA544AE.27353@ics.uci.edu> craigm@chateau-rouge.ics.uci.edu (Craig MacFarlane) writes:
}} 
}} Simple solution: Then don't carry a tank a hydrogen around.  Carry a
}} 		    tank of water around.
}} 
}} Hard problem: Separating the hydrogen from the water right before the
}} 		 hydrogen needs to be burned.
}} 
}} I admittedly haven't any idea what it takes to separate hydrogen and
}} oxygen, but a system which did so right before the hydrogen was to
}} enter the combustion chamber would alleviate the fears of leveling
}} city blocks.
}} 
}} Can you imagine filling your tank with the garden hose? :)

You shouldn't need to.  The burning of the H will give you back the
H2O you started with.

The problem is that you won't get as much energy out of burning the H
as you put in to separate the H2O in the first place.  Thus you'd be
better off just using that portable energy source implied in the "Hard
Problem" directly, rather than using it for electrolysis of water.

}} Craig

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
                             Aye, I like her eyes!

  "Oh my God!  I shot my eye out!"  (Ralphie Parker, in "A Christmas Story")
Date: Thursday, 3 Sep 1992 10:33:30 EDT
From: <MARK@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Sport/Utility Info Request.

I am presently looking at purchasing a Sport/Utility Vehicle.
I am considering the following vehicles but would be interested in any
comments folks have on their Sport/Utility vehicles even if it is not listed.

             1992 Jeep Cheerokee 4.0L 6 Cyl 4 door
             1992 Ford Explorer 4X4 4 door
             1992 GMC Jimmy 4X4

Would also be interested in the price folks actually paid for their Sport/Util
vehicles since I live in a small town with few dealers (i.e no competition)
I have also looked at a Nissan Pathfinder and was going to purchase one
until my Insurance agent (Allstate) stated my premium would increase
approx $325 dollars (for 6 months). I presently own a Nissan 200SX and thought
it was pretty expensive to insure.  Agent claimed the Pathfinder was an expens.
vehicle to have repaired. (I still have my doubts).  The above vehicles would
only increase my premium by $100. I would be interested to know what other
owners of this vehicle pay for their premiums.


                         Thanks,

                         Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: Re: Lexus SC300
Organization: None
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:09:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.191252.13802@scott.skidmore.edu> wwein@scott.skidmore.edu (warren wein) writes:
>
>	If the SC300 is a stretch financially, then take a look at the
>Subaru SVX.  I know that the image is nonexistant but the car is
>smooth and is a great GT.  And costs up to $11,000, less.  My dad just
>bought one with the Touring package for $26,000.  The stereo is
>excellent, though I don't think that its 80 watts can even come close
>to Lexus' 280 watts.

The 1992 Toyota Camry XLE V6 is very very similar to the Lexus ES300.
Same Engine, very similar body, etc - The dealer admitted as much to me.
The lexus has a few more bells/whistles but costs 6000+ more.

We opted for the Camry once we realized this. The Camry will cost
us about $21900 vs about $28000 for the ES300.

Joe
joec@morgan.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos