HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: btowle@ecst.csuchico.edu (Brendon Blaire Towle)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: A Pagan trying to recover
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:06:25 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Nov05.042951.16832@bnr.ca> ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge) writes:
>
>Yes, i know, not much help here, but you asked for comments from anyone,
>and i like to criticize the twelve steps any time i can.
>-- 
>allen@well.sf.ca.us
>ethridge@bnr.ca
>my opinions are my own

Where I come from, recovery is about (in part) helping others.  Criticizing
the twelve steps because of your own undealt-with resentment is merely
spreading the disease.  Carrying that anger must be _so_ satisfying!

(Yes, this is from personal experience)

Brendon
From: johnk@johnk.wariat.org (John M. Kroehle)
Subject: Re: A Pagan trying to recover
Followup-To: alt.recovery
Reply-To: johnk@wariat.org (John M. Kroehle)
Organization: John's super computer
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:51:14 GMT

As quoted from <1992Nov4.235128.25458@wam.umd.edu> by porta@wam.umd.edu (David Delney Palmer):

+---------------
>   Hello everybody,
> 	I am a chemically depenent person who is in the process of recovery
> from addiction in general.  My addition also includes food.
> 	My problem is this; the conventional concept of spirituality of God
> has not worked for me in 12step programs.  

David,
	I do not practise any religion but was raise traditionally
Christain so the Christain slant to the 12 Steps did not bother me. I have
found though that there is not a real compulsion to believe in God as any
particular thing. My knee jerk reaction is to share that my God has
nothing to do with the Church or the "One God" but is based on my own
belief and faith that something or somebody is out there. I would like to
share though that getting down on my knees has been very helpfull, not
because of my church training but because when I talk to God on my feet my
alcoholic head tends to regard God as an equal, but when I'm on my knees
there is now question who is in charge. So I get down on my knees not
because I'm convinced that God will hear my prayer better from there but
because it is better for me.

	How about trying "God as you understand them".

john
 

-- 
John M. Kroehle                 Internet Adddress: johnk@wariat.org
                    Cleveland Free-Net: at015@cleveland.freenet.edu
              Being human explains everything, but excuses nothing.
From: rnt@druwa.ATT.COM (Bob Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Violence at AA meetings
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:28:17 GMT

Add me to the list of folks who suggest calling the police.
Protecting a drunk from the consequences of their own
violent behavior doesn't benefit anybody, especially the
drunk.

Bob
From: ssw5356@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Violence at AA meetings
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:11:08 GMT
Reply-To: ssw5356@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <1992Nov11.110441.10045@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin) writes:
>I have been to several AA meetings recently that have been disrupted by a very
>violent drunk. He goads and threatens people until he gets thrown out. That is
>if there is anybody who feels like they want to throw him out. He has hit
>people in the meetings and threatens to kill people. Attendances at meetings
>seem to be dropping off. Perhaps newcomers are being frightened away, possibly
>for good.

 Our traditions state th...

 Jeremy:  Remember now...these are my opinions and experiences.
   A similar incident happened some time ago here (Western New York State)and
there were anxious little knots of AAers gathering after the meeting to play
"Ain't It Awful?"  what finally happened was that the secretary of the group
called a Group Consciousness Meeting and the group decided to have the
secretary warn the disruptive person that his behaviour was unacceptable to the
group and either his behaviour changed or the police would be called and a
complaint of disturbing the peace would be lodged against him.  It took a lot
of courage for the secretary to do this, but she did and the police removed him
twice before Mr. Disruptor believed she was serious.  She also followed up the
complaint  with appearences in the local town justice's court (who is a member,
so that helped).  Mr. Disruptor did, however leave and not return.  Just
remember "the greatest good for the greatest number" Hope this helps.  Silvia
W. 

>personally frightened of this man, yet at the same time I like him and hope
>that he recovers. Does anybody have any experience of dealing with violence at
>meetings that they would care to share? What can we do to protect ourselves
>that is consistent with the twelve traditions?
>					
>					Jeremy           
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: daalrutz@violet.uwaterloo.ca ( )
Subject: mommie dearest
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:34:56 GMT

Thanks for the tip on the article "Mommie dearest". It's taken me a long time
to finally figure out how much my Mom dislikes herself and how she likes to
undermine my relationships with other people in the family so that -well it's
twisted-I think it's so that she doesn't look bad-but in recovery I can watch
it all happening and just try to detach. I was reading about a test some
doctors did and they found that daughters and mothers were very
telepathically in tune especially when daughters were in distress. I know
that's true for me- as soon as I'm having a hard time my mother knows. I hope
someday she will break her denial and see how strongly our bond can be one of
health rather than a mommie dearest nightmare.Serenity Suz

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: richgu@microsoft.com (Richard Guion)
Subject: Re: Concept of God and Losing my Ground
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:21:25 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

I find this discussion to be really fascinating and I can identify with
the issues involved.

I'm relatively new in my recovery program--I just made it past the 1st
90 days.  In the beginning I really needed to go to a lot of AA meetings,
about 5-7 times per week.  I needed it really badly.  There were a lot of
nice people in the meeting that I regularly attended, but our friendships
never extended out of the meeting.  For a while I was into the mode of
examining everything in my life thru the AA dogma, and was really concerned
that not being able to make strong friendships thru AA was another symptom
of my disease.

Also, I did become tired after a while of going to AA meetings everyday and
"overdosing" on the AA literature.  This happened after being in the program
6 weeks (and having >60 hours in an outpatient treatment program).  I started
searching for other activities that I like to do, but still keeping 2-3 AA
meetings in per week as a "safety net" as the other fellow described.  I feel
more comfortable with this.  I didn't give up drinking just to have my life
wrapped up in AA 24 hours a day.  At the same time, AA has helped me out quite
a bit and I'm sure I wouldn't have the sobriety that I enjoy now without it.

I found it really fascinating what the other fellow wrote about how like
attracts like and also how people complement each other.  After having gone
to some different AA meetings, I'm starting to observe how I respond to
different types of people.  I'm a people pleaser on the outside, but there's
something in me that usually responds to the people pissers.  And Mary B.
wrote about her view of the 2 different personality types in AA: the hard
core AA-types and the liberals.  I'm definetely one of the liberals, I don't
choose to do a lot of meetings, and I try to bring other things into the
program for myself (like Taoism, meditation, Star Trek :-) ).  I tend to be
more attracted to making friends with these type of qualities also.  It's hard
for me to find the right meeting to mix with these types of people, but I
keep working on it.

Rich
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (R Michael Medwid)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Recovery Backlash
Date: Sun,  8 Nov 92 09:26:43 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I read an article this weekend on a "backlash" response to the Adult Child
and Codependent movements.  They said some counselor were now advising
"Adult Children" to "just grow up".  And they seemed to feel that focusing
at all on the past was a waste of time.  They called ACAs and codepenents
"whiners".

I hadn't been to an ACA meeting in a couple of years as I practice a
program around my own addiction now.  Anyhow I went last week to this
meeting in Palo Alto and was surprised how much it had shrunk.  In the
80s, it was often nearly standing room only.  70-80 people was not
uncommon.  Now there were only like 12 to 15 folks there.  Speaking
to some of the members, a sister meeting which meets earlier in the
week has also had a sharp decline in membership.

I think some of this is a good process..kind of dividing the wheat
from the chaff sort of thing.  That is separating people truly interested
in recovery and those seeking a social outlet.

Still the tone of the article held some sadness for me.  The notion that you
can grow up with alcoholism and codepenency and somehow it wasn't all that
bad..come on just grow up..just shut up..life's a bitch and then you die..
stop acting like a baby..stop crying or I'll give you something to cry
about.  This kind of response make me think the ACA/Codependency movement
struck a raw nerve..the denial nerve. Bravo!
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: lisa lynne davidson <lldavids@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Why do I pray?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:59:43 GMT

I had a sponsor tell me to try the part on praying for others, as a
tool.  Now SHE is not listening to her own advice and is a miserable,
mean human being, but she has a lot of good things to say, and I even	
still listen to her.
When I pray for people, I do not do it because I believe personally in
the idea that what I pray for them will come to pass because I have so
much power that all my prayers will get answered.  I pray for them
because I want to get THEM out of MY head.  And I still do it because
it works.  I can't be free while I'm carrying all that crap around in
my head, and I can't be free while I'm mad about all that is going on
around me.
My sponsee brought up the fact that there were lots of things going on
at our club that shouldn't be, and there were several people there who
were the victims of far more gossip than she was, and I told her
personally that I was grateful that being here where there's so many
choices on which meetings I go to that I didn't hang out at the Club
for my first year.
I dunno, I'm real slow about some things, but going real slow is good.
I am w/ at least one AA person every day, but we live.  I go to meetings,
I go out more than I ever did, I have different friends who are not AA,
some old friends who still drink...  I'm working on my education, working
full-time, doing volunteer work, doing service work, and people think
I'm funny.
What was the point of this?  I'm really grateful to be here, grateful I
haven't had the compulsion to drink in a long time, grateful I'm not the
girl I talked to a couple nights ago who lost her family and her job and
so on and is now hiding out because she is an accessory to murder but is
drinking every day because, she says, it seems life would be boring 
sober, and anyway nothing that has happened is her fault and she's mad
and has a right to be, and I remember when I said most of the words she
said, and I feel so much, because I'm here and I'm OK.
From: mwk20@ccc.amdahl.com (Michael W Knowles)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: A Pagan trying to recover
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:20:42 GMT
Reply-To: mwk20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Michael W Knowles)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I hear you.  I have a bit of prejudice against the notion of
a Christian God.  It is sometimes difficult to use that word
God because it calls up memories of negative experiences I had
in the Southern Baptist church.  It's easy to get hung up on
the Judeo-Christian perception of a Higher Power -- the image
appears everywhere in our society, even on our money.

I'd suggest that, when you find yourself getting hung up, remind
yourself of the phrase "as we understood Him [It, if you prefer]".
I tend to feel my Higher power as a chord inside myself vibrating
with infinite sustain.
From: mjarvis@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Violence at AA meetings
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:12:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.110441.10045@vax.oxford.ac.uk> jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin) writes:
>I have been to several AA meetings recently that have been disrupted by a very
>violent drunk. He goads and threatens people until he gets thrown out. That is
>if there is anybody who feels like they want to throw him out. He has hit
>people in the meetings and threatens to kill people. Attendances at meetings
>seem to be dropping off. Perhaps newcomers are being frightened away, possibly
>for good. Our traditions state that our common welfare should come first. I am
>personally frightened of this man, yet at the same time I like him and hope
>that he recovers. Does anybody have any experience of dealing with violence at
>meetings that they would care to share? What can we do to protect ourselves
>that is consistent with the twelve traditions?
>					
>					Jeremy           

  Is it the same drunk each time, or different drunks with same behaviour?
  In my opinion, they have a right to be at the meeting as long as they
  "behave" themselves.  If they are becoming violent and threatening others,
  then they could be driving away people who maybe want this deal a bit more
  than they do.
 
  If it were me, I would get several large guys together and perhaps talk
  with this gentleman, and tell him how his behaviour is affecting the group.
  Maybe then he'll straighten out!  Good Luck!

  Michael 
--
Michael Jarvis        | It will cost $5 million to cover the expenses of presi-
Oklahoma City, OK     | dential transition.  We'll pay $3.5 million to move Bill
mjarvis@nyx.cs.du.edu | Clinton in, plus another $1.5 million to get Hillary to
CI$:  70562,212       | move in with him...       -Argus Hamilton, native Okie
From: jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Violence at AA meetings
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:04:41 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

I have been to several AA meetings recently that have been disrupted by a very
violent drunk. He goads and threatens people until he gets thrown out. That is
if there is anybody who feels like they want to throw him out. He has hit
people in the meetings and threatens to kill people. Attendances at meetings
seem to be dropping off. Perhaps newcomers are being frightened away, possibly
for good. Our traditions state that our common welfare should come first. I am
personally frightened of this man, yet at the same time I like him and hope
that he recovers. Does anybody have any experience of dealing with violence at
meetings that they would care to share? What can we do to protect ourselves
that is consistent with the twelve traditions?
					
					Jeremy
From: carty@vnet.ibm.com (Jeff Carty)
Subject: Re: mommie dearest
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: carty@vnet.ibm.com (Jeff Carty)
Organization: IBM PSP Palo Alto, Ca.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 22:25:01 GMT

In  <1992Nov11.003458.8605@iscsvax.uni.edu>  mccall3080@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>         A good friend of mine gave me an article to read today.  It was called,
> "Mommie Dearest" and it was about competition between a mother and her
> daughter.  This article described my relationship with my Mother to a T.
> ....
> she is.  I should be working with her, not against.

Actually, from the stuff I left out, it sounds more like it just isn't
possible for you to work with her...it sounds like, if it were possible,
you would already be doing it....but it isn't.

I don't have experience with this situation, so I'm wondering whether or
not it would make any sense to look at it in terms of working with yourself
(i.e., keeping your thing separate, neither competing nor feeling obligated
to make her feel "better" in any way).

Jeff
Newsgroups: la.general
From: pperez@math.ucla.edu (Pablo A. Perez-Fernandez)
Subject: tennis partner needed
Organization: Department of Mathematics, UCLA
Distribution: la
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:21:15

I am looking for a tennis partner. If you are interested give me a
call at 208-6449 or send me email at pperez@math.ucla.edu.

- pablo a. perez-fernandez
Newsgroups: la.general
From: brihut@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Brian Hutchings)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Help Preserve Civil Rights in CO
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:17:12 GMT
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA

I could start makin`my own beer, of course, but I didn`think that
the USDA labeled meat as to state-of-origin --
not individual patties, at any rate!...  surely,
there should be no discriminatory practices against any one as,
for instance, AIDS is not particularly associated with gayness *per se*
(rather, with abuse of recreational & pharmaceutical drugs, and
with malnutrition (as in parts of Africa)), but
what is the point of gayness having particular "rights" ??
Newsgroups: la.general
From: bhattach@molly.jpl.nasa.gov (Bidushi Bhattacharya)
Subject: nice, romantic views of the city
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: la.general
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:48:58 GMT

Another observatory that's nice is Mount Wilson...........

:-)
From: pete@carrera.wvus.org (Pete Gregory)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: glass recycling machines
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 17:18:32 PST
Organization: Private System

i used to live in san gabriel, where they do curbside glass pickup.  now
i'm in a condo in la verne where we can throw everything recyclable out
in the trash, and no one cares (except me).

i take newspapers to a local church school paper drive bin, and sell
pop/beer bottles (6-pack glass) to ralph's recycling.  we don't buy
those 2-liter plastic pop bottles.

a few months ago, i took some 6-pack recyclable bottles to a store
where there was a glass bottle recycling machine out front.  it didn't
take my bottles (yes, i had the IPC facing the right way - and i
tried others - no go).  what size/type bottles do the *glass* bottle
receivers take?  it looked like they'd take .75L and 1.5L wine bottles,
but i'm not going to risk looking like an idiot *twice* at the glass
recycling machine.

at this point, we're recycling all common recyclables, but throwing a lot
of .75L and 1.5L bottles out, and would rather not.  ralph's recycling
doesn't want them.  i won't drive 40 miles to take them somewhere, as
very few will fit in the porsche (we don't have a truck or anything,
and besides no where to keep them).

thanks...


Pete Gregory, at home

pete@carrera.wvus.org
ames!elroy!wvus!carrera!pete
Xref: sparky la.general:905 la.seminars:202
From: mary@mizar.usc.edu (Mary Tabata Froehlig)
Newsgroups: usc.general,la.general,la.seminars
Subject: Dr. Senri Miyaoka, Sony Labs, Talk on 11/16/92
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:07:13 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

		The USC School of Engineering presents:

			Dr. Senri Miyaoka
		Managing Director, Sony Corporation
		  Corporate Research Laboratories

     " Management Style for the Key to Success:  The Case of Trinitron "

		Monday, November 16, 1992 - 1:15 pm
		HEDCO Neurosciences Building, Auditorium

-- 
Mary Froehlig  (mary@usc.edu) 213/740-7295 - voice  740-8729 - FAX
USC - CSI - Electrical Engineering-Systems Los Angeles, CA  90089-2565


Newsgroups: la.general,oc.general
From: harry@neuron6.jpl.nasa.gov (Harry Langenbacher)
Subject: Re: "Romantic" hill-top views in LA/OR area...
Organization: JPL Pasadena CA
Distribution: ca,la,oc
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:08:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.060133.17171@ttank.ttank.com> karl@ttank.ttank.com (Karl Bunch) writes:
>...  And I would like to know a neat spot to take my wife (of 8 years)
>were we can see the "lights" and uh.. Rock the van a bit..  :-)

I always thought Mt. Wilson was a romantic spot - I proposed to my
2nd wife one night there, and married my 3rd wife there.

It'll take you 25 minutes to get there from La Canada, but there are a number of
turnouts with a view of the city within a few miles of the 210 freeway, on
highway 2.

I was "homeless" a few weeks, between wife #2 & #3, and used to camp out near
Mt. Gleason or Pacifico mountain where I could see Palmdale/Lancaster and
lights of LA at the same time, but that was a long commute.


-- 
Harry Langenbacher 818-354-9513 harry%neuron6@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
Concurrent Processing Devices Group, FAX 818-393-4540
JPL,  M/S 302-231, 4800 Oak Grove Dr, Pasadena CA 91109        USA
Xref: sparky la.general:895 soc.culture.indian:36482 soc.culture.sri-lanka:1242 soc.culture.nepal:567
From: sampathk@physics.usc.edu (Sampath R.)
Newsgroups: usc.general,la.general,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.sri-lanka,soc.culture.nepal
Subject: DIWALI CELEBRATIONS AT USC, Los Angeles.
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:29:42 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.usc.edu



******************************************************************


		The Indian Students Association 
	  at the University of Southern  California 
			   present 


	       ***  DIWALI CELEBRATIONS!!  ***


	              All are Welcome!

	* quality entertainment [dances, songs & other goodies]
	* dancing 'n' stuff after the program
	* good food [dinner] available!


		DATE:		Saturday, November 14, 1992		
		TIME:		7:00 pm
		LOCATION:	Bovard Auditorium,
				University of Southern California, 
				Los Angeles.


	Admission for USC students:	FREE!!  [Yep! no $$]
	Admission for non-USC folks:	ONLY $3

	COME ONE, COME ALL!

	For more info, feel free to contact
	Devina:		(213) 745-2124
	Sampath:	(818) 572-3446  <sampathk@physics.usc.edu>

******************************************************************
Xref: sparky la.general:880 soc.culture.china:29632 rec.arts.movies:32161
From: bsaeed@usc.edu (Babar Saeed)
Newsgroups: usc.general,la.general,usc.china,soc.culture.china,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Chinese Feature Film at USC
Date: 5 Nov 1992 00:39:36 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

				   
		    The International Film Club of
		  University of Southern California
				   
			       presents
				   
			 Chinese Feature Film
				   
	       K I N G   O F   T H E   C H I L D R E N
				   
		       1987, 118 minutes, color
		       Directed by: Chen Karge
		 In Mandarin with English subtitles.
				   
		    Thursday, November 5, 7:00 pm
				   
		 Taper Hall of Humanities - Room 202
				   
			   Admission: $3.00
				   
			    Sponsored by:
		   International Students' Assembly
	     Office for International Students & Scholors

				   
	   For more information, please call (213) 740-2666

Newsgroups: la.general