HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s_johnson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Scott Johnson)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Salary Questions...
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:57:27 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Hi,

I have a few questions in regards to salary.  In regards to paying software
engineers, some places pay their employees by giving them a flat rate.  Others
pay a flat rate and some sort of profit share method.  How does this
technique work out?  Is this typical for a small company in regards to working
for a large corporation?  Is it stable enough to manage a household on?

Thanks for any and all replies. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------

        Scott Johnson
        Digital Equipment Corporation
        Colorado Springs, Co
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: Where to go over 35.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:34:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

>>2.  The better the position, the more casual the dress.
>>I know people who code small COBOL projects for an insurance company
>>who never deal with the public, yet must wear ties to work.  However
>>at the top companies, it seems jeans are standard attire and sometimes
>>shorts.

It depends on who runs the company.  In the case of the insurance company,
it is the business people who run it.  It is *NOT* a high tech company (it
just needs to use what it thinks is high tech to get its job done).

In the real high tech startups, the techie people are (still) running the
companies (in most cases).  The techie people care more about what the
people working for them actually do, while the business people APPARENTLY
care more about how people look (even if no one looks at them).


>>Take the pressure as a given, your brain can forget things you knew in
>>your sleep before the interview.  I think the biggest problem though,
>>is not having reference material.  "So you know assembly huh?  Code
>>this routine."  What would have been a five minute task at a computer
>>has you tring to remember which instruction variation was correct, and
>>which registers that instruction uses.

If you know, and need to know, only ONE assembler language, it might
get tough.  If you have programmed as heavily as I have in one, it won't
matter.  I found an old dusty IBM 360 GREEN CARD last week while cleaning
out a box of junk.  The only reason to keep it is that it is an antique.

Unless they tell you which machine to program for, program for the one
you know most, or better yet, make one up on the fly.  They might not
even notice.


> You have said something I would call "a truism". But being in this 
> business for 13 years, I have never had to perform like a monkey.
> (except at microsoft interview. but that was at the interview !!)

I guess they are letting the business people do the interviews while
the techie people do real work.


>>4.  People seem to like their work more than business related positions.
>>It seems most developers would be doing some sort of programming even
>>if they weren't paid for it.

Let's put it THIS way.  Suppose you won a lottery that supplied you with
a very good regular income for the rest of your life ($60,000 indexed
to inflation per year) plus your choice of a new workstation or PC each
year from what was new that year (up to $10,000, indexed, and cannot sell
it).  Now what would you do?
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold)
Subject: Re: No tie
Organization: Noo Joizy, USA
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:48:22 GMT

helwig@epx.cis.umn.edu writes:

$ OK, so what about those of us who cannot wear a tie. Should I tell
$ the interviewer outright, or just assume that if it matters, they will
$ ask? I have a condition (similar to claustrophobia) which prevents
$ me from wearing one. What do you think?

If you don't mind looking a bit eccentric, why don't you try a string
tie?
--
        Tom Reingold
        tr@samadams.princeton.edu  OR  ...!princeton!samadams!tr
        "Warning: Do not drive with Auto-Shade in place.  Remove
        from windshield before starting ignition."
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: u9030062@golum.riv.csu.edu.au (Ronald Ku)
Subject: Job Market in Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong
Originator: u9030062@golum.riv.csu.edu.au
Organization: Charles Sturt University - Riverina, Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:33:16 GMT

Dear Netter,

	I have no idea of where should I post this new. I believe it
belongs to this newsgroup. If not, then I am sorry about the time and
money you wasted!

	Could anyone out there provide some information about the job
market for Computing Science areas in Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong?
What are the working enviroments? The salaries? etc.

	These information seem not included in most of the misc.jobs.XXX
groups. I would be appreciated for any positive information.

	Thanks in advance.
 
-- 
*  Ronald Ku                             *  UNIX will use next,       *
*  u9030062@golum.riv.csu.edu.au  OR     *  UNIX is YOUr next,        *
*  u9030062@zac.riv.csu.edu.au           *  So I use UNIX!            *
*  Charles Sturt University              *  And I survive for UNIX!!! *
From: nmartin@cadev6.intel.com (Nancy Martin -iNTEL recruiter)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: ASIC Design Engr. Disk Drives, Intel Corp., Sacramento CA
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:52:02 GMT
Distribution: usa


 
Intel Corporation has an opening for an ASIC design engineer in Folsom
(near Sacramento), California.
 
Will be responsible for developing the the next-generation Flash
memory-based solid state hard drives.  
 
BS/MS in EE/CS or CE and a minimum of 3 years of experience required. 
ASIC design experience, including system interface and embedded
software development, required.  Experience with hard disk drives
would be a plus.  (Sadly, no similar positions exist for new gradu-
ates.)
 
For immediate consideration, FAX your resume to:
 
                     Robert Belsjoe
                     Intel Corporation
                     FAX:   (512) 490-2999
                     Phone: (512) 490-2998
 

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: kiser@taronga.com (James H. Kiser)
Subject: Re: Is over qualification a valid reason for rejection.
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:31:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.021318.4388@umbc3.umbc.edu> cs461a09@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs461a09) writes:
>
>	Why the employer is worried about over qualification?

Being worried that you wouldn't stick around when a better paying job came up
or that you will try to leverage more money than they really want to pay,
are usually their biggest concerns.  The next time they give this "excuse" 
counter with, "Sounds like you won't find anybody better qualified, so let's
talk about what you feel the problem is."  (Or something to that effect.)
This puts you back in control of the interview and gives you a chance to
assure them you will stay and you won't blackmail them.
-- 
      "Never send a bunny to do a duck's job."  - DW
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5354 ba.market.housing:2651
From: bruce@StarConn.com (Bruce Michael Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,ba.market.housing
Subject: domestic services
Date: 22 Jul 92 03:00:54 GMT
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133


Diligent, thorough housecleaning by Elsa and associates-- $10 per
hr--call 415-364-6873.

Do not respond to this email.
From: rem@btr.BTR.COM (Robert E. Maas  rem@btr.com)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: TEN INVALUABLE RULES FOR THE SUCCESSFUL CONTRACTOR
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:04:54 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

I couldn't resist, so here are my reactions to a few:

> 3. Don't give advice

I disagree completely. A contractor is supposed to be an expert, so if
he/she doesn't give any advice he/she is not doing his/her job, he/she
is more like an entry-level employee than a programmer. But of course
advice should be given only where the client is willing to listen and
where the contractor has advice based on expertise or thought.

> 5. Don't Abuse the Clock
I agree. Otherwise is fraud.

7. Don't Conduct Personal Business on company time
I agree. Otherwise is really shoddy.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:26:32 -0400 
From: Karin Berger <kb42+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Radiation screens

I'm looking for any kind of information on radiation screens for computers.
(e.g. what different kinds are available, do they really absorb
radiation or are they useless, ...)
This might not be the right place to post this so I'm also thankful for
hints where to get more info from.
Karin
From: brucer@drutx.ATT.COM (RobinsonB)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Head Hunters list in Pacific Northwest, Portland
Summary: is there a FAQ for headhunters in the Northwest, specifically Portland area??
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:58:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO

if so, please email to me; or if you know of any good ones.
Thanks.

att!drutx!brucer

-- 
    66
     >
     ^ .................. brucer "Demigod of the DoD" (DoDoD #0002)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: wgb3@pyuxf.uucp (25337-buoni)
Subject: Wages (southeast)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:23:32 GMT

A friend of mine is looking to relocate into the southeast.  I would 
appreciate any information with regards to salaries, benifits, etc... that he
might expect.  He holds an MS in comp. sci. with 3+ years industry experience.
Please email any responses to this address.
                                            Thanks!
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dens@pygmy.rice.edu (dens)
Subject: Re: Where do old programmers go?
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:53:49 GMT

In article <3303@unisql.UUCP> alan@unisql.UUCP (Alan Weiss) writes:

   I believe that you are correct:  old programmers who don't firmly
   embed themselves in management either have to learn the latest
   new tricks (X windows, MS-windows, OO, rpc, whatever's hot *NOW*)
   or get a new life.  Literally.

Anybody who does NOT stay current with his chosen profession deserves
to drop into obscurity.

Later,
den
From: brada@bardlover.Eng.Sun.COM (Brad Albom)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Update on CA self-employed tax changes * PLEASE READ **************
Keywords: keep the heat on!
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:04:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bardlover

Earlier this week I heard (on KGO radio) that the new reporting
& payment requirements proposed for Independent Contractors in 
California had been dropped from whatever bill they were attached to.

It's probably a good idea to continue flooding legislators with
opposition mail,  just to let them know how sensitive a nerve
they hit with this one, so they won't even consider trying it again.

Also, big thanks go to SF's KGO radio.  One or two of their talk
show hosts took this topic up as a major issue and got the word
out over the airwaves in a big way.

-brad albom
Software Engineering Solutions, Inc (Not related to Sun Micro)
Office: (415) 969-0141    - Probably get a secretary
FAX   : (415) 961-3050    - Probably get a high pitched tone
email : brada@eng.sun.com - Best Bet (In On Random Weekdays)
From: root@sickbay.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Defense Cuts and Jobs requiring Clearances (was Re: Security Clearance)
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:42:13 GMT
Organization: ttmar Ltd., Austin

>I want to thank all those who contributed to the discussion 
>on Security Clearances. With all the cuts in defence spending planned 
>over the next several years, and those that have already begun over the 
>last couple years, one would have thought the number of jobs requiring 
>clearances would decrease, and so would recruitment for them. However, 
>in my own area, the Baltimore - Wash DC, area, they seem to be increasing 
>over the last year or so, judging by the ads in the Washington Post. 
>I have a feeling that these are mostly 'Intelligence Community' jobs 
>versus 'Defence Dept.' jobs. If so, is there any difference between 
>the clearances required, for example, is this the difference between 
>Secret and Special Compartmented Information ? 
>Also, I know people who have been granted clearances who were not 
>US citizens, but only permanent residents, but this seems to have 
>been discontinued of late. Does anyone know why, or does it still 
>happen ? 
 I think if you are, in your field, the equal of the German rocket scientist 
 of the 1950's then Yes, otherwise forget it. 
 We have too many holes in the system, already. (mostly driven by greed, but
 remember the Pollards and that Chineese fellow) - these were mostly ideology
 driven.
>Finally, with the end of the Cold War, will the very rationale for 
>clearances soon disappear ? 
 Never. We have a society that is too open. Information is now as strong of 
 a weapon as a military hardware used to be and many times we are taken 
 because of our leaks and openess. (Sadam was watching our bloody CNN for the
 Christ sake, so I hope you are catching my drift.)
>I know that the DoD recently issued a 
>notice of wrongful discrimination, wherein it was held that naturalized 
>US citizens of certain countries had been wrongfully denied clearances, 
>most of these countries were in the former Soviet bloc. 
 I have followed the clearance issue with great interest. I am "one of those"
 from-formerSoviet-bloc-nowUScitizen, and I have once applied for a position
 that required a very high level of clearance. I was turned down. The agency's
 policy was such that the reason for not accepting was itself a secret, not to
 be divulged to me. 
 (or they could have, but then they would have to rub me out" :-)  )
 So, I thought some people would have a chuckle on this one. (I now feel 
 somewhat good about that the job was not offered.)
 Just to comment on the need of secrecy. The U.S. will always have
 enemies and opponents. The issue may come down to economics vs. military
 but that is just as serious if not more. 
 Cheers
 P.S. Even paranoids have real enemies.
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:5450 misc.jobs.offered:9310 ne.jobs:675
From: mjensen@BBN.COM (Martin Jensen)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered,ne.jobs
Subject: Re: Observations at software firms
Date: 29 Jul 1992 21:12:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: mjensen@BBN.COM (Martin Jensen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: reliant.bbn.com

kgg@mv.mv.com (Kenn Goutal) writes:

>Bottom line:  *On average*, somewhere between 30 and 40 your brain turns
>to mush, to put it baldly.  More specifically, it doesn't work as creatively,
>nor does it have the stamina it once had;  single-bit and multi-bit failures
>become more common as brain cells die and are not replaced.  The muscles and
>joints of an athlete have a slight advantage in that the cells to get 
>replaced, but in general the body doesn't work so well after a while, either.

>Of course, there are exceptions.  But they are not the rule.
>The problem is not specific to programmers.

>It might be cheaper in the long run to put everybody over <pick some age
>limit> into retirement, and quit spending corporate and government money
>trying to pretend that they are still useful.

Excuse me ... but what planet are you on???

I have never heard such a load of s***, and all without a single :-)

The most talented and creative people (software wise) I've ever met are
all above the age of 40.  I would say that in my experience finding a
truly talented software engineer *under* the age of 30 is a very rare
thing.  

Talented *programmers* are a dime a dozen.  Very few, however, have the
skills and discipline necessary to become a truly great software god.
Experience (which loosely translates into age) brings with it a depth of
knowlege which is not to be found in the under-30 set.

"Programmer burnout" exists - but not as the "brain-to-mush, creativity
down the tubes" b.s. that has been spouted here.  Most of the "older"
engineers I know will gladly give up the "grunt work" to the "younger"
crowd.  Positions as lead engineers, design engineers, software architects
and the like offer a technical (non-management) growth path which is 
a lot more challenging and requires a great deal more skill than sitting
down and translating specs to code.

Of course, this all assumes that we're not talking about programming
actuarial tables in COBOL for an insurance company.  My brain would be
mush after a couple of years of that kind of work :-)

BTW (in case it matters) 35 and still going strong ... expect to still
be here for the next 35. 

---   Martin Jensen     \   BBN Communications     \  #include          ---
 ---   mjensen@bbn.com   \   150 CambridgePark Dr.  \  <std.disclaimer>  ---
  ---   (617) 873-4859    \   Cambridge, MA   02140  \                    ---
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Where do old programmers go?
Reply-To: kaufman@CS.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:43:36 GMT

dens@pygmy.rice.edu (dens) writes:

>Anybody who does NOT stay current with his chosen profession deserves
>to drop into obscurity.

On the other hand, its fun to be able to say "Well, that may work, but on
the IBM 7090 we did it this way..."

(30 years at it and still going... (thump, thump, thump))
-- 
Marc Kaufman (kaufman@CS.Stanford.EDU)

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: u9030062@golum.riv.csu.edu.au (Ronald Ku)
Subject: Job market in Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong
Originator: u9030062@golum.riv.csu.edu.au
Organization: Charles Sturt University - Riverina, Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:27:40 GMT

Dear Netter,

	I have no idea of where should I post this new. I believe it
belongs to this newsgroup. If not, then I am sorry about the time and
money you wasted!

	Could anyone out there provide some information about the job
market for Computing Science areas in Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong?
What are the working enviroments? The salaries? etc.

	These information seem not included in most of the misc.jobs.XXX
groups. I would be appreciated for any positive information.

	Thanks in advance.
 
-- 
*  Ronald Ku                             *  UNIX will use next,       *
*  u9030062@golum.riv.csu.edu.au  OR     *  UNIX is YOUr next,        *
*  u9030062@zac.riv.csu.edu.au           *  So I use UNIX!            *
*  Charles Sturt University              *  And I survive for UNIX!!! *
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: cooper@cos.com (Gary Cooper)
Subject: Re: Need suit and tie for a job interview ??
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:43:33 GMT

>Women have a _much_ more difficult time trying to "dress for success" than
>men do - all men need do is find a white shirt and a black tie, and perhaps
>a not-too-loud sportcoat, and they'll fit in almost anywhere.  Women, on
>the other hand, must decide among (a) jeans&tshirt (which is much more
>casual, it seems, for women than men), (b) reasonable pants, (c) reasonable
>skirt-n-blouse, (d) nice pants suit, (e) dress, and (f) business suit every
>time.

Don't want to sound picky - but I'd much rather have to decide
what to wear than to have to wear a "male uniform" - ie, collar,
longsleves, jacket, tie, slacks.  I recently got the word from
the CEO (through my boss) that "if I want to be taken seriously
around here, I'd better dress up".  BULLSHIT!  I've busted my
ass here for the last year, going from being a temp stuffing
envelopes to being in charge (simultaneously) of our company's
mailing database, our publications department, and my duties in
developing our fall conference - I haven't gotten another dime
for my pay scale from when I started.  If my work, in of itself,
is not enough to validate my job and skills, then to hell with
them.  (BTW - I don't deal face to face with outside customers,
clients, members, etc - I sit in a damned cubie.)

Thank you for allowing the tirade :> 

Anybody out there hiring?  (If you pay me enough, I'll wear
a nice worsted wool suit :> - if I can wear my kilt every
now and then.)

-- 
Gary Cooper (not the dead one)    personal responses - cooper@cos.com
* * * * * * *  Standard Disclaimers Apply, Of Course * * * * * * * * *
      "Sir Ranald, in my domain, never tell me ... always ask." 
                        - Sheriff of Nottingham  _Robin and Marian_
From: schenker@novavax.UUCP (Donald Schenker)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Is dot-matrix OK?
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:25:58 GMT
Reply-To: schenker@novavax.UUCP (Donald Schenker)
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, Florida

In article <1992Jul9.074534.17046@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>In article <1992Jul8.221303.8454@uoft02.utoledo.edu> rtjia@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Robert Tjia) writes:
>(Using dot matrix printers for printig resumes)
>>What if I used my humble printer in NLQ mode? Will my resume still be
>>taken seriously?
>
>Would you want to work for someone who judged you by the appearance of your
>resume instead of by what's in it or by who you are?



Although you may not want to work for someone judging your resume by it's looks, unfortunatly, companies usually have a HR department who do not know the Technical jargon and can only judge you by appearance and  key words that there were told to look for.  Appearance of your resume is very important.  You should eat the cost (about $@.00 a page) to get your resume printed by a laser printer (most print shops around here can print your WP and Word Files on laser) and then make copies of it there.  The cove


r letters (which should be personalized for each application can be printed in NLQ.

Don.

 ***********************************************************************
 *   Donald Schenker       schenker@novavax.nova.edu                   * 
 *                                                                     * 
 *         "if it was so, it might be and if it were so,               * 
 *            it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't."                 * 
 *********************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ortega@cactus.org (Paul Ortega)
Subject: INQUIRY: Pacific Search
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:29:29 GMT

Has anyone ever gotten any results from Pacific Search (who has
recently posted on the net)?

Or even a acknowlegement of receipt of resume?

-- 
Paul Ortega			|  "Does this mean that we have
2015 Cedar Bend Dr., #1105      |   to fight now?" - Selina Kyle
Austin, TX 78758		|_______________________________ 
(512) 832-9197			ortega@cactus.org
From: aub@shamash.cdc.com (Alberto Begliomini)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Good and cheap Universities
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:50:37 GMT
Followup-To: aub@cdi.cdc.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Control Data, Arden Hills, MN

Hi Folks,

I need information about good and cheap Universities for a MS in Computer
Science and for a BS in Natural Science. I need also to know if with a F-1
visa I can work in the U.S. so I can cover some expenses at least. Any help
is greatly appreciated. Please respnd via email.

Alberto

aub@cdi.cdc.com