HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cs921022@ariel.yorku.ca (MING HE)
Subject: HELP: looking for a person
Summary: looking for a lady at Iowa state univ.
Keywords: na4 ri4 si1
Organization: CS, York Univ., Toronto, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:26:30 GMT


Who knows the e-mail of Ms. na4 ri4 si1 at Iowa state univ, who arrive
the states 2 years ago?

many thanks,

ming
From: liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:01:03 GMT
Organization: New York University

liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>>>
>>>Tang Dynasty (everyone's favourity Dynasty, of course!!!  :-)  )
>>
>>Not mine. 1/2 :-)  For starters, it was a very immoral dynasty.  A dynasty
>>that has an emperor (Li Long Ji) who took his daughter-in-law (Yang Yu Huan)
>>away from his son is definitely not going to be my favorite dynasty.
>>>Areas of Afghanistan and central Asia are lost.
>>>Mongolia revived and Tang lost Outter Mongolia.
>>>Southern Korea is also lost.  But Tang took over
>>>Manchuria.
>>
>In comparison, Tang Dynasty was an enlighened area.  It was by far
>my favorite dynasty.  doesn't matter which dynasty, the emperors
>always screw around, Li Long Ji was a famous one, it's not like
>emperors in other dynasties didn't do this sort of things.  

>You can say it's immoral, then what do you say for today's USA?  
>Tang was enlightened, women were not restricted to their homes, so 
>inevitably some of them were having a wild sex-life just like
>their noble husbands.  In comparison, southern Song was  
>very strict in its moral code, but it is the wimpiest dynasty of them
>all!  I doubt it is your favorite dynasty.   

It is my favorite dynasty too. The racial atmosphere under Tang was that
of a harmony. Many talented people from minority ethnic groups were 
assigned to important posts and I do agree women did obtain some equal status.
Many women played an important role in politics, the most famous ones being
Queen Zhang3shun1, Empress Wu3ze2tian1 and Yang2yu4huan2.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Chinese culture
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:16:04 GMT

In article <14SEP199222351358@deimos.ucc.umass.edu>  
s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194, YANG, Changqing) writes:
> In article <95895@bu.edu>, lix@murray.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes...
> >In article <1992Sep13.223119.5922@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu  
(Xuejun Yang) writes:
> >>(deleted)
> >>get real, be realistic and objective. Don't apply rich people's 
> >>way of thinking on poor people, that's so-called Chinese reality but
> >>I doubt if poor is equal to bad culture.      
> > 
> >Not equal, but being poor itself suggests something wrong in Chinese
> >culture. We, especially young people, are responsible to learn from
> >western cultures, and find out exactly what is wrong in Chinese one.
> > 
> >It is not easy, but in 80,000 CSS, there must be someones.
> >-- 
> 
> China's being poor today is not necessarily the result of Chinese
> culture. Look at the history of past two hundred years we should
> know that. One of the reason for China's being poor is those
> people with so-called superio culture. 
> c.q.

Are you suggesting that the native Indian's poor situation now is ONLY the  
result of the Eurpoean invasion of the new continent? Please imagine: assume  
the new continent had not been "discovered" in 15th century, instead, it is  
discovered right now in 1992, what would be the situation of native Indian?  
Would they have already developed their land (country or whatever) into a  
highly prosperous one?

Yes, the Europeans did bring misery to the the Indians. It's sad. But if it had  
not been the Europeans, it would be Japanese, or even Chinese. As long as they  
stay there and dream of their old glorious day and don't want to change, they  
will be hit by someone (not necessary Europeans). It's the sad fact.

Carl

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten)
Subject: Re: The Defeat of Absolutism (article)
Organization: /cuba_b/dirbe/roten/.organization
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.57.1, GNUS 3.13, NNTP 3.10
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:07:58 GMT

Thanks for a darned fine post, Haosheng !!!!  [sounds of wild applause and 
cheering !!!]  

There was only one small part I disagreed with, so I'll only cite that 
part, and not the rest (though you may be sure I archived the post 
itself).

In article <9209131601.AA05820@eeserv.ee.UManitoba.CA> Haosheng Zhou 
<philz@ee.umanitoba.ca> writes:
 [
>
>******Please send comments to: philz@ee.umanitoba.ca******
>
 [231 beautiful lines deleted]
>
>	   12. Summary and Discussions
>
>1) The monarchy age is short in Europe(1500-1870). Compared with Europe,
>the history of the absolute in China is very long, about 2000 years. The
>absolute is well adopted by China, Chinese culture and Chinese people.
>In 2000 years, until 1911, there had been a lot of revolts in China. But
>none of them discarded the absolute. None of them thought there should
>be otherwise.

Actually, the feudal period, and the governments of the Roman and pre-
Roman Mediterranian world had their absolutist aspects too.  But they 
_did_ differ from the China in their fractiousness and their constant 
warring.  

>2) It can be clearly seen from the revolutions in both England and
>France that the more complete the absolute was, the more severe the
>revolution would be. It is worth notice that the absolute is far more
>completed in communist countries.
>

No argument there !!  

>3) Revolution came when kings were lack of money. Situations are
>different in the revolutions in the communist countries in East Block
>and Soviet Union. The communist parties seem never lack of money but
>products.
>

Hmm .. I disagree here.  50 years of IMMENSE military outlays, plus 
the political cluelessness of orthodox Communist doctrine, had put the 
Soviet economy on the skids, bigtime.  In fact, after Brezhnev's death, 
Western Russia-watchers spent a great deal of time wondering about the 
SU's economic viability.  IMO, much of the impetus for political change 
over there was economic.  Folks _always_ vote the economy.  When it is
in trouble, they want to "throw the b*st*rds out" (of power).  

[lots of stuff I found interesting deleted]  

Too bad we don't see more stuff like this posted to SCC.  

--
Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
  roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
  7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
  301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:02:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.130955.2999@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes...
> 
>In article <1992Sep13.010033.24246@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang) writes...
>>In article <11SEP199213305227@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>> 
>>It's sad to see people from mainland and Taiwan bickering against
>>each other. I think this comes from a misunderstanding on the
>>personal level and misinformation by the governemnts. 
>> 
>>ps. Before you criticise, think if you have been influenced by CCP
> 
>I dont know how many Mainland Chinese in the US can speak freely when
>they have family in China and may go home someday. I am pretty sure 
>someone is watching over. Those Mainland Chinese who have independent 
>thinking may have to stay silence. As a result, what we read may not 
>represent majority opinion of Mainland Chinese in the US.
> 

Almost all the students here have relatives in China and most of them
do have direct relatives in China. My parents and two brothers are
in China as well as all the other relatives. I have been speaking
straight all the time, even when I was in China (you may not beleive
it but it was a fact.) Am I afraid of anything? I do not.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:40:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.140842.11057@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)  
writes:
> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> 
> >>     Suppose Guangdong wants to be indepedent some day and pass
> >> a referendum, is that O.K. ? Then maybe other Provinces will follow.
> >> There will be some thirty countries on mainland, is that what you want ?
> >> 
> 
> >Ask people in Guangdong whether they want independence. Ask them! Let them  
> >vote! If most people in Guangdong want to be independent, let them go!  
Again,  
> >let people choose their future! If most people in Guangdong or Fujian or  
Yunan,  
> >etc. want to be independent, you just can't stop them even you have troops  
of  
> >10 million.
> 
> >Economy is not the only concern. People leave not only because of the poor  
> >economy. There were quite a few American Jews went to Israel years ago to  
> >develop that country. Nobody forced them to go and the living standard were  
not  
> >as good. Why they went there? Ask yourself?
> 
> 
> >Carl
> 
> Is this the guy who asked Chinese to build a strong China?
> Gees, how many pay checks he gets. May be it is the drug....... HIV........
> :x
> how to quit
> 	
> 		#@$%@%^@% 
> }#@$%{[]


Yes! I am the guy who asked Chinese to build a strong China. The point is,  
through what kind of path. I think the most important issures are still  
democracy and realistic economic policy. Without them, you really can not  
realize your goal to build a strong China. I don't think Guangdong or Fujian or  
Yunan or Heilongjiang will ask for independence at the mount (hopefully never)  
because people there still won't choose to be independent. If China doesn't  
change it's current system, sooner or later, there will be more and more people  
want to leave. Then CG will not be able to stop them. The reason why people  
still choose to stay there is because the situation is still tolerable. If the  
countries around us continue developing while we are still further left behind  
using so-called "China's special situation" as an excuse, if CG continues it's  
oppressing policy, then I bet more and more people will choose to break away.

Don't blame others. 

Carl
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:57:12 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep11.225319.9934@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>If they elect warlords, then let the warlords be the representitive. 
>Why do you think that Chinese people will elect warlords? 
>Trust them. Put confidence on  
>Chinese people. If a warlord is elected by a REAL election, then this warlord
>has something that people trust.

The problem is that you may have a highly popular leader who advocates
policies that are good for Hunan, but which are disastrous for the
rest of China.  This person find it very, very easy to get elected in
Hunan on a platform on Hunan independence.

You can't simply let provinces secede at will.  The trouble is that
it's always in the advantage of an individual province to secede, but
if they all secede they everyone is at a disadvantage.

If you don't see the problem, then ask yourself, why do we have
governments in the first place?  If a group of people are such good
managers, then why do they need to force people to pay them money?
Why can't taxation be completely voluntary with each individual paying
the amount that they think the government deserves?  If provinces can
secede, why can't individuals?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:30:47 GMT

[........] 
>>help too much in Taiwan's defense against Mainland. The Taiwan government
>>simply has too much money. Instead of using the money to help other Chinese,
>
>You should tell American and Japanese about your idea, both countries spend
>100 billions dollars on military. If one cannot defend itself, whatever he
>got may not last long. Taiwan is secured by the trend of the whole world not
>by Taiwanese only. Without the intervening from U.S., CCP can take over
>Taiwan 20 or may be 30 years ago. But, the point is that this world now
>recognize that it is important to help each individual to choose the life
>he likes and nobody should take away this fundamental right out of every
>individual, no exception. That's what keeps Taiwan safe from CCP's attack.
>However, the response from U.S. and U.N. may not be as fast as the
>aggressive country, so Taiwan only need to protect themselves long enough 
>until U.S. or U.N. comes in and kick CCP's ass.

US or UN comes in and kick CCP's ass?  ha!  
Oh dear!  You might just watched too many GI Joe cartoons,  I suggest
you flip the channel to watch some CNN reports from Bosnia.  

>I would say 6 months to 1 year will do it.
>
>Yi-Chieh

P.S. No flames towards your political views this time, I just felt the
urge of pointing out to you how UN or US usually operates.
From: s245@cs.utexas.edu (Spring Class Account)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: WHAT REAL TIBETANS THINK?
Date: 5 Sep 1992 19:37:34 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: nada.cs.utexas.edu

In article <0003@tia.lhasa.tb> Real_Tibetans@tia.lhasa.tb writes:
>In article 86481 from zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu):
> 
>>|> Do you think the UPI report is nonsense?  It comes from a recent issue of 
>>|> China News Digest.
>>
>>1st. UPI does/did make false report. VOA is another big liar.
> 
>Can you prove that UPI "did make false report"?  Or, is it that you 
>don't want to believe it?  
> 
> 
>Tibetans want independence!   China out!
> 
> 
>A committee of real Tibetans.
>

China News Digest carries uncomformed news items, and it may have 

made some false reports on purpose.  

This kind of "real tibetans" can only sell their garbage to the uninformed

Americans.  Unfortunately, a lot of Americans don't know what is really 

going on in the world because their news media seldom reports anything

unbiased.  


To the American people :

  think about the biased news reports about the things that you know,

then you can imagine to what extend some people are manipulating the

"world news".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:54:40 GMT

In article <Bu6293.7Hu@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>In article <65500095@acf3.NYU.EDU>, yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes...
>> 
>>Taiwan is a piece of land got back by China after we defeated Japan, I don't
>>understand why Mr. Chang says it is a country, if it is a country as
>>Mr. Chang claimed, there must be very few people know this.
>> 
>>By the way, when those asian countries were fighting Japan's invasion,
>>where were those taiwanese boys and girls, they were not defending
>>"their own country", I am sure some of them are serving their Japanese 
>>masters, how did they become so tough in recent years?  
>> 
>>They don't have the right to say taiwan is a independent country now, 
>>it's a piece of land owned by Chinese.
>> 
>> 
>>Ze Yang
>
>Lets not talk about history in this matter. Or , how can you explain
>that taiwan defended China against Japanese invasion in the Sino-Japanese
>war but deserted by China . Where were mainland boys and girls when
>Taiwanese succesfully stopped Japanese landing on the island. Probably
>sucking Opium pipe on the bed then sold their brothers in Taiwan to
>Japanese so that they can keep sucking their pipes. The wound Taiwanese
>have suffered is painful enough and dosen't need anybody to worsen it.


I guess you would like the history books to left out General Liu YongFu
and his "Black Flag Army", wouldn't you?  You would like people to
believe only Taiwanese borns defended the Island against the Japanese,
wouldn't you?  Sure a couple of corrupt officials were sucking their
pipes all the time, but a lot of people defended Taiwan, among them
even a few Qing officials, literally stick out of their neck to stay
in Taiwan to fight the Japanese.  You are right, corrupt officials
of Qing sold Taiwan, but Chinese didn't, the last time I check the
history books it says the chinese people rose to fight for the province
side by side, soldiers and civilians, some born on east side of the
strait and some born on the west side of the strait, together side
by side they spilled blood against the Japanese invaders.      

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He)
Subject: Re: Insensitive mainland chauvinist view. (Was: Who Cares 150 F-16s.)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 13:34:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.221622.10037@cs.yale.edu> yang-allan@CS.YALE.EDU (J. Allan Yang) writes:
>
> > From: s9874194@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
> > Sender: usenet@nic.umass.edu (USENET News System)
> > References: <BuCEr5.JB9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
> > .....
> > 1. Selling weapons to Taiwan is an invasion to Beijing's
> > sovereignty. After all, Washington recognized that Beijing
>
>This is a very insensitive mainland chauvinist view. And I don't use
>these words lightly.
>
> > 2. If the door for weapon sale is open, then, French can sell
> > ......
> > attractive price and the Straight will be a very dangerous 
> > place.
>
>Wrong! Taiwan has much much more to lose than mainland from an
>unstable Straight. Nothing says more than the fact that nowadays
>many Taiwanese students willingly return to Taiwan after their study
>in the US. How many Chinese students willingly go back to China
>these days? 

I want to add one point. This big China chauvinism pig 
can not  tell the difference between defence and offence.

Weapons in Taiwaneses'  hands are for defence.
Weapons in mainlanders' hands are for offence.

To sell weapons to Taiwan is to increase the stability of the Strait.

If mainlanders don't want to invade Taiwan, why should they worry 
about this F-16 sale?

My dear fellow Taiwanese, prepare yourself  for the worst.
I don't how many mainlanders share the same view as this blood thirsty
chauvinism pig. As long as these pigs are there, we have to fight them
whether we get united or independent, because the only thing these pigs
want is to suck up our hard-earned prosperity.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yhan@ee.tamu.edu (Yong Han)
Subject: Re: Michael Chang in US Open Semi-Final!
Summary: lse the semifinal
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 21:52:23 GMT
From: Sanyee_Tang@mindlink.bc.ca (Sanyee Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Shen Tong Takes the Challenge
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:02:33 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

    When CCP announced a "more lenient policy toward overseas Chinese
students," reporters asked Chinese government's spokesman, "What happens
if Cai Ling comes back?"

    "Wang Dan is still in jail."  So the answer is clear for people on
CCP's Most Wanted list after the 6.4 Massacre.  "However, if Shen Tong
returns, nothing would happen to him."  (Shen is not on the Most Wanted
list.)

    Apparently CCP would like to have someone as a Dian3 Xing2 (model) of
His Majesty's returned loyal dissident.  I don't know why CCP picked Shen
Tong and threw him a pair of very small shoes.  Maybe they thought his attitude
is milder.  Maybe they thought Shen's advisor Ross Terrill is an old friend
(Terrill wrote a biography of our Reddest Sun and gave an apologist's view
of CCP's revolution) ...  Any way, CCP was teasing Shen Tong for whatever
reason they like.

    Shen Tong took the challenge and went back.

    I am pride that not every CSS is grabbing the US greencard in the back,
meanwhile kissing CCP's ass in the front, even if CCP is waving.
From: liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Change in spelling of Chinese names
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:29:51 GMT
Organization: New York University

rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders) writes:

>like to ask any Chinese reader who has taken the trouble to read this (maybe 
>one or two of you actually got this far) is, given China's insistence that 
>foreigners change their way of spelling Chinese names, does China have an 
>obligation for modernizing the way it renders the pronunciation of foreign 
>place names?

>Robert Sanders

Robert, I have never taken lingustics before but let me take a few minutes to
tackle this issue. 

Yes, China has an obligation to standardize foreign pronunciations. Right now
different newspapers use different translations for say the name of George 
Bush. When I first came to this country, a lot of misunderstanding that I
had with other people was due to the fact that I had remembered non-Chinese
proper names by their (mainland) Chinese translations which sometimes 
didn't sound close enough to the actual pronunciation. This convention has
existed for thousands of yrs. 

I would favor a mixing of western languages with the Chinese language in
writing - that is when it comes to a western proper name, just spell out the
name in its original language. I know it looks messy but it enjoys the
advantage of being more accurate and unique.

As to spelling Chinese names alphabetically, I favor the mainland standard
by which at least a Chinese name has a unique spelling while the old standards
used by Taiwanese and Hongkongese are a little arbitrary. Still, there is
room for improvement. For example, there are two provinces in China both 
spelled as Shanxi but if you mark the tones they are different: one is
Shan1xi1 and the other is Shan3xi1. Even if you do mark the tones, the Chinese`
translation of an English spelling (of a Chinese name) is still not unique -
there are often much more than one Chinese character with the same spelling
plus even the same tone. How many westerners are willing to accept
Chinese characters being printed in newspapers just for the sake of uniqueness?

- Li, Qiang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: xia@slab.unt.edu (Hong Xia)
Subject: TEST TEST
Summary: TEST
Keywords: TEST
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 18:52:24 GMT

It is a test only!!
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:25335 soc.culture.taiwan:13186