HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Version 2 of who is who on rec.food.veg (still not serious)
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:39:25 GMT

In article <altar.715414764@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
> 
>I must admit to having difficulty in remembering 3 things:
>names, dates and the third I always forget!   :-)  :-)

That third one is e-mail addresses. Anyway...

> 
>This listing is really great.  Now I can see at a glance who
>is who.  I found it difficult in the past keeping track of
>some of the less frequent posters and you have here
>diligently even included them.
> 
>The embedded humor of your listing was as welcomed relief
>from some of the deadly serious exchanges that have here
>occurred.

Thanks. Many people  have  said that. Don't we wish Michael were still
here ? Why don't we all ask him (traub@btcs.bt.co.uk) ?

Thanks to everybody for the great positive response I have had.

With regards,
-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
From: inas@cs.uow.edu.au (Ian Geoffrey Sergeant)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:03:40 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:

>I recently e-mailed the person who puts together the vegetarian FAQ
>about including such pseudo-terms as "semi-vegetarian",
>"pesco-vegetarian", etc.  I found those terms offensive

[...]

>I would, therefore, like to publicly suggest that those terms be removed
>from the vegetarian FAQ, please.  Perhaps we can have some debate on
>this.  (Is the person who makes the FAQ a vegetarian?)

This sort of argument comes up often in alt.usage.english.

Unfortunately I feel there is not alot that can be done
to save the word `vegetarian'.  When I describe myself as
vegetarian I invariably spend the next five minutes explaining
that I don't eat poor dead baby chickens, and I don't eat 
poor dead baby fish.

We have to accept what most people in society think a word means.

We can't change reality by changing the Frequently Questioned 
Answers, or by getting annoyed with people who use or interpret 
the word incorrectly.

Ian.
From: giber@pollux.cs.uga.edu (Carolyn Giberson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: freezing point of homemade ice cream
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:29:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Aug25.202944.19201
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Originator: giber@pollux


Commercial ice cream doesn't freeze solid due to whipped-in air (called
"over-run", I believe).  See a Consumer's Report article on ice cream,
last summer I think, for a complete explanation.

Another reason homemade ice cream may be more solid than commercial ice
creams is the presence of sugar and other ingredients (gums, emulsifiers,
etc.).  Sugar depresses the freezing point of water (colligative properties
-- I'm a chemist), so too little sugar makes for a higher freezing point.
A higher freezing point --> freezes solid at a higher temperature.

Carolyn Giberson
University of Georgia
From: higham@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Butternut anyone?
Date: 24 Aug 92 15:59:14 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

Last week I had the pleasure to receive a butternut in our weekly food co-op
box. Hey, its my first. I know that its similar to a pumpkin and I do a mean
stuffed pumpkin, but I was wondering if anyone has any ideas for recipes with
butternut. Its a big one I tell you! I'd appreciate any help, preferably by
the end of the week. I'll post a few to the net if I get any interesting ones.
Thanks in advance.
-- 
Tom Higham,		        "If ever somethin' don't feel right to you,     
Radiocarbon Dating Lab,	        remember what Pancho said to the Cisco Kid:
University of Waikato,	        'Let's went, before we are dancing at the
Hamilton,		        end of a rope, without music.'"  
NEW ZEALAND.		                   Sailor Ripley, "wild at heart".
Higham@waikato.ac.nz
			  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko)
Subject: Re: meat cravings/soybean politics
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:17:34 GMT

In article <2984@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>Good suggestion about the Chinese supermarket (although are there any
>in Columbus, Leslie?  

When in Columbus, a good time can be had by flinging ears of corn at
the cows and trying to bonk them on the...

X-cuse me, I grew up in Cleveland and lived in Philadelphia for many
years.  This cow town may have rednecks in it, but I've seen Laurie
Anderson, Martha Graham Co., Bobby McFerrin, yes, we even have 
alternative movie theaters, a MULTITUDE of international cuisine
restaurants (a Tapas bar with live blues every weekend!), Reggae
clubs AND Oriental grocery stores everywhere.  

I love going to the Oriental stores, but always a little leary of
experimentation when I can't read the label.  Also, I like to read
about calories, protein, carbos, fats, etc.  I've tried seitan and
I'm not too keen on it, the mock duck stuff sounds un-appealing to
me.  I love to learn first-hand from my friends who are here from
Korea, India, Brazil, etc.  That way I get to know ingredients and
what to do with them.

So, if you're ever in Columbus, within the next few months 'cause my
time here is almost up, give a holler and we'll dine like kings!

 - L.

-- 
Leslie Bishko
leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Subject: Millet recipes sought
Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:53:36 GMT

Hot on the heels of my request for buck-wheat recipes, I would also like
some millet recipes if anyone knows of some. (Odd the things we have in
our cupboard :-) ...)

Thanks,

Drew.
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:8211 talk.bizarre:27498 news.groups:17172
From: rpwhite@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.bizarre,news.groups
Subject: Re: an idea
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:34:53 GMT
Reply-To: misc-test@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Followup-To: rec.food.veg,talk.bizarre,misc.test,news.groups
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

Valerie Mates writes:
>Anybody interested in considering splitting rec.food.veg into two
>groups, one for discussion about vegetarianism and the other for
>recipes and cooking tips?
 
I suggest we adopt the time-tested solution of K*nt Paul Dolan.

How about a CFD for rec.food.veg.advocacy.

rp -- I see a great need.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: fyl@ssc.wa.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: EarthSave - Reverence for all life
Organization: SSC, Inc.,  Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 17:23:38 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

While we are talking about EarthSave, I want to mention that John Robbins
will be speaking in Seattle on September 25.  I expect he is on a speaking
tour that covers other locations as well.  If you want more info on the
Seattle engagement you can call EarthSave Seattle at (206)782-6602.
Note that I saw this ad in Washington GREEN.
-- 
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155  (206)FOR-UNIX
>>> Publishers of pocket references for UNIX, C, VI, Emacs, Ksh, MS-DOS, ... <<<
     uunet!nwnexus!ssc!fyl or fyl@ssc.wa.com            (206)527-3385

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mlw@cisco.com (Monica Waldman)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: () 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:34:52 GMT

If you don't like the conversation, create a kill file.

-- 
standard disclaimer, etc. ad nauseum

"No pain, no gain." -- Epilady commercial
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Date: 31 Aug 92 07:43:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Dyer's response to me shows how he offends people without even trying.
In response to a neutral report (I didn't say that I believed it), he
calls me "credulous."

The guy is a walking offense machine. No wonder others complain
about him here. Then he plays the innocent and claims he has
never personalized any of his comments--just reported the "scientific
facts".

I may not know much about the colon, but I sure know b.s. when I see it.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: karen@athena.mit.edu (Karen E. Walrath)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:15:31 GMT

In article <altar.714856093@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>
>Also, can you imagine what a bland and trivial interest group
>this would be if all we do is exchange vegetarian muffin
>recipes?  Don't we have more to proffer than simply swapping
>recipes (or drying up with something to contribute so that
>we turn to simply plagerizing verbatum from published
>cookbooks)?  I think we do have more to offer, at least the 
>practicing vegetarians generally do have a lot to contribute,
>if given a chance.  And if it should turn out that some 
>vegetarians might not be posting interesting messages for everybody,
>your point was that people would skip those kinds ofp
>postings anyway.  So why bother severing the conference?
>As the saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
>
>                                   ted

My suggestion to separate out the eating-vegetarian aspects (food,
restaurants, recipes) from the nutritional flame war that has been 
going on ever since I started reading this group.  No one has suggested
making rec.food.veg simply a recipe group.  

You may think I should be interested in all of the nutritional aspects, 
but I AM NOT, and apparently there are others that feel the same way.  
I find that a lot of the flaming and nutrition talk is being done by militant 
vegans, which I am not.  I am also not interested in the colon-clensing
"health related" aspects of this group.  I wouldn't mind scaning through
nutrition related topics occasionally, but I feel I am "wading" through
this group every day.

If you feel that the nutrition is necessary, how about having three groups:

rec.food.veg.eating
rec.food.veg.nutrition
rec.food.veg.misc       (for all the other cows, calfs, sheep, and colons)

Karen Walrath
MIT




Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:39:55 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1992Aug20.162919.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> churchwell@vms.ocom.okstate.edu (Kimberly B. Churchwell) writes:
>>> ...There's no such thing as "impacted feces".
>>
>>You'd get an argument on that from any geriatrics nurse.  (Nope, I'm not
>>a nurse, just a former nursing student.)  "Fecal impaction" is a common
>>condition in elderly patients who consume low-fiber diets and get little
>>or no exercise.

>If you noticed my first posting, you'll note that my comment was
>qualified.  This is exactly the situation where you see a condition
>similar to the phrase.  It directly results from a decrease in intestinal
>motility associated with aging, low physical activity, along with a low
>fiber diet.  Quite a typical set of conditions found in most nursing homes.
>It is very rare in anyone else.

But the list includes also some amphetamine users (including heavy users of
pseudo-ephidrine in flu OTC "remedies"). I don't know how many is "some".
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: an idea
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 16:02:43 GMT

In article <drew.714811620@cs.anu.edu.au> drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan) writes:

[...]

>What has frustrated me over the past few weeks is trying to work out
>"who was who" and "what side of the fence" contributors come from.

[...]

	Just a small point: if the "side of the fence" can't be determined
	after a period of weeks, perhaps the highly touted animus isn't as
	clear as some of the more pretentious posters would like to believe,
	and perhaps there isn't really any good reason to assign "sides of
	the fence".  It should be assumed that everyone is looking for truth,
	not simply "truth which pleases", and in that context, there are
	no "bad guys" based on whether one agrees or disagrees with the
	content of a posting.

	The true idiots are easily distinguished, since they usually resort
	to such statements as "all omnivores are hostile to vegetarians" or,
	on the other side, provide graphic descriptions of the consumption
	of raw meat.  These people can safely be ignored...the rest are
	simply expressing honest opinion or offering facts, and the "side
	of the fence" shouldn't matter.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Leslie Bishko)
Subject: Hi, I'm new.
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:48:06 GMT

I've resisted reading news because it eats up hours of valuable time,
however...

I've been a vegetarian for one year and have lately been somewhat
distressed by meat cravings!  My vegetarianism evolved through saving
money by living on tofu, eventually becoming revolted when in the
meat department at the grocery store.  One day I ate meat, felt sick,
and decided to make the switch official.  I'm 95% non-dairy, mainly
for health reasons, and I've been known to eat fish, but I don't buy
it.  So, I'm a little fuzzy when it comes to fitting into a category.

Folks, I'm posting here because I need support!  BBQ'd ribs are
calling!  Relatives think I'll separate the meat from the vegetables!
Restaurants offer limited selection and nutriciously deficient
alternatives!  Also, no matter how long I cook 'em, I can't seem to
prepare a good batch of soybeans.

Thanks in advance,
 - L.





-- 


		Leslie Bishko
		leslie@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: an idea
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:46:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

Every six months we talk about having two different groups, one for
politics one for recipes.

Every time a number of people agree that it would be a good thing and
some seem to disagree. WHAT WE NEED IS someone who understands the
formal procedures for calling for input and votes!!! It is discussed
and dropped every time!

Personally I am a vegetarian and have been for several years. I do not
care to get involved in the political issues that lead people to
become vegetarians because I have already decided. I don't care for
the squabbling that occurs but *I do* like to share recipes. 

Could someone please take this thing to the next step and do the
proposing necessary to have rec.food.veg.recipes become a real
group???

Thanks,

rf
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jfrawley@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judy Frawley)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 12:40:23 EDT

In article <1992Aug22.191809.2953@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug22.190537.15415@u.washington.edu> england@milton.u.washington.edu (England) writes:
>>I see that Steve's at it again, although in a different group this time.
>>I wonder how many people he'll hurt with his pointedly one-sided remarks
>>and not-so-subtle put downs in this group before he feels satisfied
>>enough to move on to the next group?
>
>I've been following rec.food.veg for years.  When I feel a comment is
>warranted, I make one.  This isn't my first, nor will it be my last.
>
>Anyone who could claim to be "hurt" by one of my comments (which
>are factual and not personalized), probably could use the services
>of an additional group, perhaps alt.support.  But that's not my problem.
>
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

I find it interesting that the very person who publicly flamed be
because I did not provide references for something I said (and I
later publicly apologized for having misspoken) is unwilling to provide
references when they are requested of him.  Actually, Mr. Dyer,
I was somewhat "hurt" by your flamage.  While I corrected myself
publicly after your insult, I do not recall your apologizing or
responding to my correction.  

Seems like a case of "do what I say, not what I do" to me.

I think it's time for me to sign off this group.  I was going
to ask advice about my four-year-old and encouraging her love
for fruits and vegetables, but I am sure I will get some sort
of response about how irresponsible I am to have even considered
bringing a child into this world.

It's too bad, too, because I really didn't mind Rich and Michael,
but I think Mr. Dyer is just too rude for my taste.  

Judy Frawley

P.S. If anyone is interested in talking about my child and her
     love of fruits and veggies, please email me at jfrawley@syr.edu
     or jfrawley@mailbox.syr.edu.

Judy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: The myth of plant pain
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 02:09:42 GMT

cindy@meshugge.media.mit.edu (Cindy Blank-Edelman) writes:

>Quite the extensive argument.

>Mine is a simpler one.  I don't deny or affirm that plants can feel
>pain.  I do know that by eating only plant food, however, I am causing
>"pain" to *fewer* plants than I would by eating meat (because animals
>eat plants, too -- a lot.).  So I am doing the best I can while still
>keeping myself alive.

>--Cindy Blank-Edelman

Fair enough, and this is a good argument except it that does needlessly
give credence to the addleheaded notion that plants can "feel pain".

Your critics could than respond to your valid principle of minimizing
suffering by pointing out that you too could go further by becoming,
say, a fruitarian or Jain.  That is, if you too are fuzzy about
where to draw a practical boundary of acceptable or unadvoidable
suffering, then our meat-eater could claim that his or her
boundary is equally acceptable, abeit equally fuzzy and "abritrary".
I think that this is a specious argument committing the kind
of fallacy where "2 wrongs make a right", hence, I prefer to nip
such arguments by refusing to concede to any of their false premises,
like that of "plant pain".

                                       ted
.

. 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: akcobb@amherst.edu
Subject: Soymilk information
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst Mass.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 17:14:33 GMT


Howdy!  I recently asked about non-fat soymilk, and I got a bunch of
responses about soymilk in general.  Here is the knowledge I have 
accumulated, for anyone else who is curious.

WHERE?
Soymilk can be found in most health/natural food stores.  A few
supermarkets carry it, but don't count on finding it there.  It is
located all over the map in these stores; usually not with regular milk
(because it doesn't need refrigeration until opened).  Some stores
put it in a special "soy section"; some in the baby foods (!), some 
in the section with liquid nutrition and vitamins, some in a "health"
section, some in baking.  I say ask instead of wandering around for
an hour.  It is rarely in the same place in different stores.

KINDS?
There are many different brands of soymilk.  Other non-dairy milks
include rice milk and potato (!) drink.  Of these three, regular
rice milk has the lowest %calories from fat (~9%, I was told) compared
to regular potato and soy.

QUALITY?
I think soymilk is one of those subjective tastes.  Some people
absolutely hated some brands which others told me they would not
be vegan without.  Pretty much everyone agreed that the "regular"
versions (as opposed to 2% or 1%) were too thick, and had to be
cut with water or fruit juice.

NO-FAT SOYMILK?
The only one anyone has ever heard of is Soymoo, made by Health Valley.
Health Valley products abound around here (western MA), but Soymoo
doesn't.  I called around and found that my local health food stores
used to carry it, but it didn't sell well so they took it off the shelves.
(My goodness, what a rhyming sentence!  Please excuse me!  :)  )

It was brought up that non-fat soymilk might be a pointless quest, 
because without eating all that icky animal flesh, veg(etari)an
diets are much lower in fat.  I know, I know, wait let me finish!  :)
My personal view is that I get enough fat now from olive oil, tofu,
and pre-made veg meals, and I really want to find a replacement for
the skim milk I drink now.

Someone wondered if low- and non- fat soymilks were simply watered
down versions of regular, for the same $$.  Since I haven't found
and Soymoo, I can't check this out.  Anyone care to look at the side of
a box of it?

The end result is that I had to order a case of Soymoo from my local
store.  They were pretty accomodating, but firm that they would not
restock their shelves with it.




I really thank everyone who took the time to respond and help me out.
I hope this helps any of you who are wondering about soymilk.  My quest
is by no means over; I would love to hear any further comments anyone has.
Thanks again!   

Amy, who probably won't ever post again because she'll have to sell
her computer to pay for that case of Soymoo.  :)
From: susan@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Wanted - Indian Vegetarian Cookbook
Date: 3 Sep 92 11:23:20 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

I have been looking for an Indian Vegetarian Cookbook, and have been
totally unsuccessful. I have one Indian cookbook which is quite
good, but has large sections of poultry, fish etc which to me
is a waste of perfectly good paper.

Does anyone out there have any recommendations? I would need
reasonable details such as author, title, publisher, country of
publication if possible and year, so I could order it through
our bookshop. An indication of price (and currency), and a description
of the contents would also be useful.

Thanks in advance

Susan Brown
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN:  Alsatian onion pie
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:26:23 GMT
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pranksters for Peace

This is from my other favorite gourmet vegan cookbook, Friendly Foods, by
Brother Ron Pickarski, Brekeley, CA, Ten Speed Press 1991.

2 T corn oil (or less)
3 large onions, finely diced (best done by a food processor)
1 C soy milk
1/3 C firm toad food, crushed
1 1/2 t salt
1/4 t black pepper (I use twice that much)
1/8 t nutmeg (ditto)
2 T unbleached flour
1 T whole grain couscous
1 10" pie crust, preferably ww

Saute onions in oil until translucent.  (some people like to do this covered 
on low heat for a long time, which makes the onions very sweet, as opposed to
the mild sweetness of sauteing on med low)  Blend soy milk, toad food, flour
and spices until smooth, mix in couscous and onions, pur into pie crust and
bake in a pre heated oven at 350 about half an hour, until slightly browned.
It's a nice visual touch to sprinkle a little paprika on before baking, but 
too much will interfere w/the subtle sweetness, so be careful.  

Serve w/a green salad, crusty french bread and a crispt blush wine.

MADNESS
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: kwc@eng.ufl.edu (Ken Colson)
Subject: fat addiction
Keywords: fat
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Florida
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 14:32:07 GMT

I was just wondering if anyone else had ever heard of research being conducted
concerning whether animal fat can be addictive.  With this being the reason
for cravings for meat.  I believe that from my experiences that there is some
validity to this idea.

I am going to do a little research to see if I can locate the article(s) that
referenced the studies.

ken colson