HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Paul Fidler)
Subject: Re: John K. Speaks: 9/28 L.A. Times Article 
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 20:18:02 GMT

In article <48028@shamash.cdc.com> pbd@runyon.cim.cdc.com (Paul Dokas) writes:
>In article <1a803lINN33o@phakt.usc.edu>, zuckerma@phakt.usc.edu (David Zuckerman) writes:
>|> Here's the front-page story of Monday's _Los Angeles Times_ Calendar section.
>|> 
>|> Executives at Nickelodeon would not comment on this story.  But one
>|> animation story editor offered his view of Nickelodeon's decision to can
>|> Kricfalusi: "Nickelodeon realized they have one of the hottest shows in
>|> the country right now, and a potential merchandizing bonanza if they can
>|> get new shows to the public.  And John is sitting on the shows.  That's
>|> something he's always done, and it makes him brilliant.  It makes his
>|> shows fine art.  But Nickelodeon wants product."
>
>  I believe that this quote is at the heart of why people tend to *hate*
>business executives.  All that they see is $$$$$$$$ (dollar signs...)
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All they see is $$$$$ for the next six months, *that's* the problem....I have
no problem with business executives' jobs being to just see the bottom line,
as long as it is over the long term; say, six years instead of 6 months, for
starters....*Then* I think their decisions would be more congruent with
common sense.

If the objective was to make R&S the most popular cartoon over the course of
the next six years, firing John K. at this stage wouldn't even be a consider-
ation.

Seems like in this case, they only care about $$$$ in the next six *weeks*!


>
>-Paul "you can never be too bitter" Dokas
>-- 



..........................................................................
From the lair of the Wiley, Speckle-Throated, Burrowing, Five-Toed Yak....
From: edwardp@cs.umb.edu (Edward P. Piecewicz)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: Re: wasted away again in
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:05:20 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS

At the end of the closing credits, the copyright reads:

 (C) 1992 MTV NETWORKS



-- 
Internet:  edwardp@cs.umb.edu                                  - guest user -
Member and Activist:  The Boston Computer Society
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: donnell@polyp.micro.umn.edu (Your Heinous)
Subject: Re: Why is Nick showing R&S in the first place?!
Organization: none
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:25:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.182943.8905@news.ysu.edu> af185@yfn.ysu.edu (Robin L. Gibson) writes:
>
>In a previous article, sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter) says:
>
>>barth@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barth.richards) writes:
>>
>>
>>>In article <Bv5xon.Atn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter) writes:
>>
>>Look at it this way: We all know how upset all of us on a.t.r-n-s got
>>after a month of nothing but reruns, and we're not even getting any
>>money off the show.  The folks at Nick, who realize that R&S is their
>>flagship cartoon, must have been livid...and I, for one, don't blame
>>them.
>>
>>Ultimately, I think the blame for this mess lies with BOTH Nick and
>>John K.  They both had different ideas concerning the circumstances
>>under which the show should be produced, and you just can't do a show
>>when you have a conflict over something as basic as that.  Overall,
>>I think John K. will be better off on his own, where he doesn't have
>>to get his work OKed by higher corporate powers.  But let's not dump
>>all the abuse on the Nick executives.
>>
>>
>>                                 --Steve Stelter
>>                                   sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>Very well said, Steve!
>
>As much as I love R&S, I have to say that every time I tune
>in to Snick and they're showing damn reruns, I'm
>incensed!  John K. has a responsibility, not only to Nick,
>but to the viewers/fans.  Screw the fact that his creative
>talents take time:  he knew that when he first signed a
>contract!
>
>Robin
>-- 
>Robin L. Gibson          gibson@email.ncsc.navy.mil
>
>Coastal Systems Station
>Panama City, FL  32407-5000

so to live up to his responsibility to a money grubbing network, John K. 
should just crank out garbage? And not care about the fans? 
Please, he signed a contract, and when that situation changed they canned him,
rather than renegotiate. That is solely the responsibility of Nick. They
say that his completed episodes were offensive, but we only have their word.
They have yet to provide any documentation of any thing inappropriate.
John K. tried to do something really special, a style of animation that
had not been done for years. And he ended up being a good example of what
happens when you place quality over quantity in the Television market.
Philistines!

					--Judex--

Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter)
Subject: Re: Organized letter writing campaign
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:20:42 GMT

mikec@outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Michael Chow) writes:

>I got it! What if Ren & Stimpy moved from Nick to Public Television?! I mean, if they can get all those British comedies there, why not R&S?

Actually, Fox seems like the most appropriate choice to pick up R&S.  They'd
probably do it in a minute if they could.


                                 --Steve Stelter
                                   sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: barth@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barth.richards)
Subject: Re: Why is Nick showing R&S in the first place?!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:56:26 GMT


In article <1992Sep29.212544.25498@news2.cis.umn.edu> donnell@polyp.micro.umn.edu (Your Heinous) writes:

>so to live up to his responsibility to a money grubbing network, John K. 
>should just crank out garbage? And not care about the fans? 
>Please, he signed a contract, and when that situation changed they canned him,
>rather than renegotiate. That is solely the responsibility of Nick.

Although Nick may have a case contractually, I have to agree with Your
Heinous's sentiments.  As I have pointed out in my letter to Nickelodeon,
they are getting off the gravy train before it's even left the station, and
they're pissing off their viewers at the same time.  As someone else here
(don't remember who) has pointed out before, The Simpsons had production
schedule problems their first season.  However, FOX realized that they had
a genuine phenomenon on their hands, and that it was the shows original
creators who made it what it was, so they worked with them.  They saw the
potential and invested in it.  I guess Nickelodeon is just afraid of making
bucketloads of money.

>They [Nick]
>say that his completed episodes were offensive, but we only have their word.
>They have yet to provide any documentation of any thing inappropriate.
>John K. tried to do something really special, a style of animation that
>had not been done for years. And he ended up being a good example of what
>happens when you place quality over quantity in the Television market.
>Philistines!

The evidence we have suggests that Nick may be overreacting to the
supposedly "offensive" material, though it's hard to say without actually
seeing the cartoons.  However, look at the facts we do know.  The episode
containing "In the Army" and "Powdered Toast Man" has not been rerun in
tact since its first airing, and rumor has it that this is because Nick
found "Powdered Toast Man" offensive.  We know for a fact about their
editing of "Big House Blues," and what exactly they cut out of that
cartoon.

All of this leads me to suspect that what they find "offensive" about the
two episodes they refuse to air is very likely no big deal.  I wouldn't put
it past them to refuse to show these episodes based on trumped-up
"offensiveness" problems just to put the pressure on Spumco.

-- 
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
88  Barth Richards                   "Language is a virus from outer space."  88
88  att!ihlpf!barth                            - William S. Burroughs         88
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: No Copies, Please
From: ngsippel@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:53:21 EDT
Organization: Watch Ren And Stimpy or Else!

Although that I have all the episodes on tape, I do not have the time nor the
VCR power to start making copies of shows.  I wish I could, but I can't.  R&S
is supposed to come to home video this Xmas, and hopefully Nick will also
package the banned shows too.

Let's hope FOX buys PTM & Banned shows and plays them!

-- 
      .    _  .     _____________ 
      |\_|/__/|    /             \ 
     / / \/ \  \  / Happy! Happy! \      
    /__|O||O|__ \ \   Joy! Joy!   / 
   |/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \  ___________/      
   | | (____) | ||  |/                       
   \/\___/\__/  // _/
   (_/         ||   
    |          ||\   Norman Sippel
     \        //_/   alias Norman "Muddy" Stimpy
      \______//      
     __|| __||       Email: ngsippel@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
    (____(____)             ngsippel@komodo.ham.muohio.edu
          
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: bwatson@nyx.cs.du.edu (bruce watson)
Subject: Re: Lemon Merchant-Marmoset Speech Transcript
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 19:00:10 GMT

In article <Btys2u.AtD@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ml31157@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Latash ) wrote:

> Can anyone please post the full transcript of the Lemon
> Merchant and Marmoset speech again?

I know. I couldn't get it out of my head either. From the FAQ:

    "Psst. Hey Guido. It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper
    of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he
    knows it. That's why he's gonna kill us. So we gotta beat it.
    Yeah. Before he lets loose the marmasets on us! Don't worry,
    little missy! I'll save you!"



--
Bruce Watson  wats@nyx.cs.du.edu  Toy Cows, Toy Cows in Africa, Toy Cows
From: andy@eies2.njit.edu (Andy)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: Re: Ren's Voice and John K.
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:21:02 GMT
Organization: NJIT - EIES2

>If, has is indicated in the FAQ, John K. does Ren's voice, and
 >if John K. has been fired, I'm curious about Ren's voice in
 >future episodes.  Has anyone heard whether they're going to try
 >to find someone else (Ack!) or try to get him to continue doing
 >that bit?
 >
 
 Well...
        When I saw Billy West lecture, he was showing us one
        of the story boards and as he was going through the
        story board, he was doing both voices, Ren & Stimpy.
        And, honestly, he did Ren exactly the same as John K.
        did.  I couldn't hear any difference.  I guess the
        question now, is would he continue to do it even with
        John's firing?
                                 Andy
From: barth@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barth.richards)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: Re: Powdered Toast Man (was Re: 9/19 episodes)
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:24:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T


In article <1992Sep28.090114.1274@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu> ngsippel@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu writes:

>I don't know why, but Nick has yet to replay this classic even though they've
>played its match "In The Army" three or four times.

There has been some suggestion that Nick found PTM offensive and have vowed
to never show it again.  You are right.  They have rerun ITA twice since it
was originally shown, both times without PTM (once with "Space Madness" and
once with "Big House Butchered Blues"), which leads me to suspect that the
rumors are true.

-- 
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
88  Barth Richards                   "Language is a virus from outer space."  88
88  att!ihlpf!barth                            - William S. Burroughs         88
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
From: bcampbel@ucdacm.denver.colorado.edu (Bob Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: oops
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:40:14 GMT

Sorry 'bout that, but the newsreader on this NeXT told me posting failed.


Bob "Its ignorance astounds me" Campbell
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: donnell@barnacle.micro.umn.edu (Your Heinous)
Subject: Re: Bob Camp to Take Over R&S Production
Organization: none
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:30:27 GMT

In article <20871@plains.NoDak.edu> dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David Henry) writes:
>>I realize John K. is God to all of us (me included), but...
>
>Hmmm...
>
>The Church of John K.
>
>Well, sir, I could like it, if I wuzzint already a due-paying peon in the
>Church of KaTe & Cthulhu -- Elder Gods and Odder Music combining to rule
>the world with dholes and didgeridoos.
>
>We'll drop in John K. as an Archangel.
>:-)
>-- 
>David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club - CTHULHU in '92! Why vote for LESSER evils?
>For Kate is a jealous God, and requires sacrifice./What was your question?--K
>"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
>dhenry@plains.nodak.edu * ud137927@ndsuvm1.bitnet * ud137927@vm1.nodak.edu

 already nominated him for Sainthood, second class, here at the
Ed Wood Jr. Cabal of the Subuniversal Temple Of Omni-Slack Scientists.
<Only fictitious characters can achieve Sainthood, first class, since they
are much more likely to be perfect, than a living being...heh>

					--Judex--
From: laposkymatth@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: Cheese and Lemons
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:30:59 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

Dear R&S addicts,
	umm...I'm the lemon merchant.  Can you find the keeper o' the 
cheese for me?  but seriously.  John K. rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

			Ren for Pres. '92

My close associate (the keeper of the cheese) hold that "Out West" is the 
best R&S show ever made.  But we need more, more I tell you.  
MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go hang yourself. and don't forget your log and it's many variations.


              Okay hey, take it easy, 

				The keeper of the cheese
				The lemon merchant

Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Subject: Re: R&S and Mighty Mouse?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 02:27:22 GMT
Organization: Mr. Lazlo's Temple Of The Mighty Rude-Boy Skank

jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:

> _The_New_Adventures_of_Mighty_Mouse_ is of such higher quality than
> anything Bakshi's done before or since, that I strongly suspect that
> it's not Bakshi who's responsible for that quality. 

Bakshi had no real day-to-day involvement with _The New Adventures Of
Mighty Mouse_ -- he was the money man, and little else.  All of the style
and attitude that went into _NAMM_ came not from Bakshi, but from
Kricfalusi, who Bakshi hired and essentially gave free rein to do as he
pleased within the boundaries of what the network would air.

(I tried to bait Bob Camp into bad-mouthing Bakshi when I interviewed Camp
last February and he wouldn't have any of it -- he said that Bakshi has a
bad rep in the industry, but he was willing to go to bat with the network
for the sake of the show, and I guess you can't ask for much more than
that from an executive producer...still doesn't give me a whole lot of
respect for Bakshi, though.)

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

...but then suddenly, unexpectedly, reality shifted two inches to the right.
							"URRRRRRRRK!"
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: Buck Godot <bgodot@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Light the fires of revolution!
Originator: bbs@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:45:53 GMT

> With the ensuing disaster that may be caused by a NICK created R&S
> I propose an alt.tv petition. (has anything like this been done before?)
> 
> Please E-mail me suggestions of the wording for a petition (and lets keep
> it clean and conservative so the NICK/MTV people can understand it)
> Or just send me a note that you wish to be thrown onto the petition.
> Please include a real address (as if e-mail users need them) as well as
> a phone number so that it can be verified. If you do not wish to voulunteer
> that info just state so.
> 
> If you have friends...that is that don't have e-mail...I'm not sure how
> this would work from a legal stand point but use your best judgement.
> 
> I will hold the owner of the e-mail address for the information in their
> notes.
> 
> I'm sorry if this post sounds really serious but its the only way to
> organize to maintain our fill of R&S lunacy.
> 
> Look foreward to responses. Future posts from this sight will return to
> normal.
 
 
 
  ---
  
 I'm gonna print up a flyer... and make HUNDREDS of copies (cheap ones), 
and post them throughout the seattle east-south side, for a call to 
action, and people to write letters to MTV/Nick... bold letters at the 
top "REN & STIMPY" to catch any fans eye, followed by the word 
"CENSORSHIP" then the deatails, along with MTV's address...
 
 
   
    if everyone here did the same in their area... imagine the 
responce... Nick studios FLOODED with post cards branded "SAVE REN AND 
STIMPY!"... I like that idea...

Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: Buck Godot <bgodot@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Why is Nick showing R&S in the first place?!
Originator: bbs@halcyon.com
Keywords: Why is Nick showing R&S in the first place?
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 09:01:09 GMT

> An intriguing thought has just occured to me:  Why is Nick showing R&S, and
> not MTV?  Certainly the MTV audience would be more appreciative of this
> style cartoon, and the station would no longer have to worry their little
> heads about how "grotesque" the show is (after all, Liquid Television has
> segments that are pretty bad!  I bet the viewership would go up if R&S were
> added to the Liquid TV lineup...or even if MTV just showed R&S like they used
> to on Sat. Nights, 2 episodes side-by-side!  Happy, happy!
 
 
    It would HAVE to be better than re-runs of "Paulys tottaly (un)buff 
special"...
From: moon!cyberden!xorcist@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: John K Re-Hired
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 02:04:29 PDT
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Now I hear John has been rehired... Any more new info on this?

<X>orcist

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N       [ moon!cyberden!xorcist@well.sf.ca.us ]
From: rmc@davidge.com (Robert Cianchette)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: Re: Camp
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:46:05 GMT
Organization: Davidge Data Systems Corp., NYC, NY

In article <#=_pk0=.eamon@netcom.com> eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart) writes:
>Interesting ... so Camp is taking over.
>
>But I can't help but think that he wrote and directed the lamest of the
>new episodes so far -- "In the Army"
>
>We shall see ...

But, I believe he also wrote and directed "Stimpy's Invention", one of
my favorite episodes.  In any case, If John K. doesn't stay on as Ren,
it will never be the same.

We shall see ...

Robert
-- 
Robert Cianchette, Davidge Data Systems Corp., NYC | rmc@davidge.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 The information, questions, and opinions contained in this message 
  are mine and are not representative of Davidge Data Systems Corp.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: EDIAS@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (EMILIANO A DIAS)
Subject: Camp vs Kricafalusi
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Amherst
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 21:24:00 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20


Could someone who has the following information please post it.

What parts did Bob Camp and John Kricafalusi have in the episodes we've 
already seen (i.e. which episodes did the write, direct and produce
individually and togethe.)

This list might give us an indication as to which direction the series is
headed in.

     just wondering...				Tony Dias

Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: HHJJ on radio
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:15:36 GMT

Last night, just as BTAS was starting, the station I listen to played HHJJ for 
the start of the "Afterwork Block".  Yay!
     Oh, for all those Physics grads out there, last night I made a T-shirt 
with Ren holding Jackson's _Classical Electrodynamics_ while sporting the 
expression from "Now I have control of your TV" postcard and saying "Back off, 
man!  Don't make me use this!"  I wore it to E&M this morning (at 8AM...gag) 
and it was much liked.
     Dave Van Domelen, just say no to commercial R&S Tees!  Make your own!
From: ly07+@andrew.cmu.edu (Laurie S. Yanyo)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
Subject: Log Tragedy
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:37:32 GMT
Organization: Junior, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Last night seen Billy West at Pitt. Univ. He was completely funny.  At
the question and answer period someone asked if any more commercials
like Log will be made in the newer cartoons.  Billy said he wasn't sure
but he read in a film makers magazine, Film Threat???, a story about a
few young R&S fans that took log to far.It went something like this:

A group of neighborhood children killed a neighbors dog by crushing it
to death with a log.  The children were seen to be singing and dancing
around a log on a hill and soon after the children were heard chanting
"Neighbor's Dog, Neighbor's Dog,.."  and the neighbor's dog was found
with crushed skull in the street done below with the children chanting
around it.  Further investigations proved the dog had been killed
earlier in the morning by a truck hitting it.  

When Billy read this article the entire auditorium was hysterical.  I
was wondering if this magazine was for real or if anyone else heard
about his occuring.  It would suck if they stop doing the commercials
after this incident. Maybe they should put a warning label on the
product??  

Still playing with my log, 

Laurie

Viva La John K.!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.tv.ren-n-stimpy
From: eamon@netcom.com (Charles E Taggart)
Subject: Re: Bob Camp to Take Over R&S Production
Summary: Which ones did he do?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:10:18 GMT

Klif Marsiglio writes:

>I don't know bout any of you, but if Bob Camp gets his hands on R & S I'll
>never watch another episode again -- I might have even gave at least a look to
>the new show just to see how bad the bastardized it.
>
>Bob Camp is just another fucking network goon with little or no creativity and
>his tongue up someones ass--Everyone fired EXCEPT HIM :)

Now, don't candy-coat it, Klif ... what do you =really= think?   ;^)

As I'm too lazy to get up off me own arse and look through my tape
collection, just which episodes of R&S is Bob Camp responsible so far?

Cheers,

  Chuck
-- 
          ,                                          
  Charles Eamon Taggart   | "Time and space are playing games with people 
     eamon@netcom.com     |  who don't understand / You can't talk about
   eamont@well.sf.ca.us   |  the weather when you've killed the weatherman."
 Santa Monica, California |                      -- Toasted Heretic
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