HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: Amusing bloopers during development (spoilers)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:24:34 GMT

ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis) writes:


>This is what happens at 4:30 AM when you've been hacking around the
>insides of your new object run-time library for several hours and
>accidentally mix up the calling order of a certain function:

>COLOSSAL CAVE: An Interactive Fantasy
>Copyright (c) 1993 by Palmer T. Davis. All rights reserved.
>Copyright (c) 197mumble by Will Crowther and Don Woods.
>Release 1 / Serial number 930101

Is ADVENT copyrighted?  I don't think so.  In which case, you shouldn't be
able to declare a copyright on it for yourself, either.  (Correct me if I'm
wrong.)  If you're going to port ADVENT, and it's in the public domain, is
your port is in the public domain as well?

Is Will Crowther still at BBN?  I doubt Don Woods is still at Stanford.
You might ask them about this if you can find them -- not as though anyone
else ever asked their permission, but then that was back in the Good Old
Days when we wrote programs like this so people would enjoy them, and gave
them away for free.

- David
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: billc@searchtech.com (Bill Cody)
Subject: Looking for FAQ
Organization: Search Technology, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:36:54 GMT

Hello,

Will someone post Torkington's FAQ "Adventure Authoring Systems"
or provide an ftp site where I can find it?  Thanks much.

BIll Cody
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace)
Subject: Re: OASYS not Object-Oriented
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:31:36 GMT

In <appelo.724066690@dutiak> appelo@dutiak.tudelft.nl (C.J. Appelo) writes:


>This is all fine with me. But Russel just shouldn't have called it's
>language object-oriented. I've studied object-oriented languages in the past
>few months and OASYS doesn't belong in this category. TADS and (I believe)
>ADVSYS are much more object-oriented. They support inheritance (single or
>multiple) and polymorphism in some way or the other, I guess. These too
>however, do not support encapsulation. Which, IMHO, is crucial for
>software engineering practices.

The newsreader seems to have stopped behaving erratically, so I'll
follow this one up myself: You are correct in saying that a full-blown
O-O language is essential for O-O software engineering practices,
particularly data hiding. However, this is not relevant to adventure
games, which are typically written by one person and are of relatively
low complexity. Now, whether a particular language is to be called
"object-oriented" or not comes down to what one takes the words
"object-oriented language" to mean, debate on which is in the long run
sterile, so I think we can agree to disagree on whether or not I should
have called OASYS object-oriented. I don't think it is lacking any
features that are needed for writing adventure games (though it is most
certainly lacking features that would be needed for writing other types
of software).

--
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem"
Russell Wallace, Trinity College, Dublin
rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie
From: goetz@acsu.buffalo.edu (Phil Goetz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Info on IF theory please....
Date: 13 Dec 92 01:02:39 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <1g88lcINNn33@aludra.usc.edu> mduffy@aludra.usc.edu (Michael Duffy) writes:

>The Oz project article was a little disappointing
>in that it was a bit broad and shallow, with not much insight into the
>true nature of the project.  They told what areas they were studying and
>not what they had learned so far.  Maybe the references will provide the
>in depth info I am seeking.

I doubt it.  I've read the 3 Graves articles, the Presence article, and
Brenda Laurel's dissertation, and as I recall there just isn't anything about
implementations in any of them.  (I suppose I should review the 1st 2 Graves
articles again before saying this, but they're not at hand.)
There is a terrible lack of technicality in this field, almost as if people are
keeping secrets...  or are all ideas and no implementations.

Phil
goetz@cs.buffalo.edu
From: HC61@lafibm.lafayette.edu (HC61000)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Spellcasting 201
Date: 20 Dec 92 13:23:36 GMT
Organization: Lafayette College
Originator: news@lafcol

Would anyone happen to have a walkthrough for Spellcasting 201?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: avjewe@.umd.edu (Andrew D. Jewell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: What words to use and recognize
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:24:44 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Center for Automation Research, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Before this gets any more out of hand, let me take back my "adverb"
comment. I will keep adverbs as my own private perversion, and renounce
them publicly.

I am still interested in opinions about how to let the player know what
words (especially verbs) are available without giving away the puzzles.
But, please, no more adverb bashing (or promoting for that matter).

The two primary problems I'm trying to solve are

a) I want to HANG from the rope, but the game doesn't know the word HANG.

b) The game wants me to DANGLE from the rope, but the word DANGLE
does not come to mind.

Andy Jewell
avjewe@cfar.umd.edu
From: Whitten@Fwva.Saic.Com (David Whitten)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Text Generation Similar to Code Generation
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:33:42 GMT
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

I read Peter's posting about the OZ project and the text it generated.
In thinking about this admittedly unexpired prose, I thought
of how this is similar to a compiler of a computer language.
 
As I understand it, a compiler may generate inefficient or ugly code,
but then a second program looks at what it generated and applies some
pattern matching to it.  When the output matches specific patterns,
then the machine code is replaced with shorter/faster/better code that
does the same thing.  This program is called the peephole optimizer
because it only looks at the code "through a peep hole" and doesn't
really know much about the way it was created, just how it looks on
output.
 
I'm sure the work being done by the OZ researchers has considered, or is
considering something similar to this.  The problem comes from recognizing
'writing style' enough to make a collection of patterns that generates
writing with a consistent style.
 
Of course, anything more than a simple syntactic level style is a big
problem. 
You see mate, I kin tawk funnee an' youz kin get a fee-eel fur mein 
siinktaktik stiile but th's ain't no how thee same as me wrrrritin' style.
 
I think we would be pushing the current state of IF simply to have 
artificial personalities in an adventure which just had differing 
syntactic styles.
 
 
Thoughts for comment,
Dave (whitten@fwva.saic.com) US:(619)535-7764 [I don't speak as a company rep.]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: ojwb1@cl.cam.ac.uk (O.J.W. Betts)
Subject: Re: What words to use and recognize
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:31:23 GMT

In article <62874@mimsy.umd.edu>, avjewe@.umd.edu (Andrew D. Jewell) writes:
|> Before this gets any more out of hand, let me take back my "adverb"
|> comment. I will keep adverbs as my own private perversion, and renounce
|> them publicly.
|>
Personally, I'm against adverbs. If you must put them in, then I think the
message you get if you omit the adverb should give a strong hint as to what
you need to do.

There was a puzzle in Philosopher's Quest for the BBC Micro which had a sequence
of rooms with traps of spears and spikes which shot out of the wall at various 
heights. So something like:

> N
A spear shoots out of the wall and hits you in the head. You die.

whereas:
> CRAWL N
A spear shoots out of the wall above you. It misses you.

I think there were four of these, two to cross to collect something and two
different ones coming back. I thought it was a fair puzzle, as the phrasing of
the messages provided a clue as to what to try. 
 
|> I am still interested in opinions about how to let the player know what
|> words (especially verbs) are available without giving away the puzzles.
|> But, please, no more adverb bashing (or promoting for that matter).
|> 
|> The two primary problems I'm trying to solve are
|> 
|> a) I want to HANG from the rope, but the game doesn't know the word HANG.
|> 
|> b) The game wants me to DANGLE from the rope, but the word DANGLE
|> does not come to mind.
|>
In my (mostly written but not finished) game, I used a thesaurus and put in all
the words that seemed appropriate. This means that dangle and hang would have
both gone in. Also, my approach when playing and the problem seems to be the 
games vocabulary is to reach for the thesaurus - is this a common approach? 

-- Olly Betts --
From: paterson@gdss.commerce.ubc.ca (Toby Paterson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: What words to use and recognize
Date: 16 Dec 1992 21:07:07 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Reply-To: paterson@gdss.commerce.ubc.ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: gdss.commerce.ubc.ca

In article <1992Dec15.234807.298@starbase.trincoll.edu> Russell L. Bryan  
<rbryan@Mail.trincoll.edu> writes:
> You say you want to use adverbs, but do you want adverbs to be a  
necessary
> part of the game?  If so, then will the player always have to try to  
guess
> in what MANNER he is supposed to do something?  If not, then the parser
> will
> merely ignore the adverb anyway -- why bother?
> 
One of the elements I most enjoy about good IF adventures is the feel I  
get from the game.  It is possible, indeed, desirable for the game to  
respond differently depending on how you perform an action; it all  
contributes to the feel of the adventure.  This is not to say that the  
solution to an adventure should pivot around performing an action in one  
particular manner.  I agree that this is a bad thing for you are forcing  
the player to try and second guess the author instead of participating in  
an adventure.  Of course, the game might have more than one solution, all  
of which are equally valid, depending on how an action is performed at  
some juncture in the game...

It would be nice to see more adventures get away from the "one solution  
via one path (the author's path)" approach.

> If you DO use adverbs, I strongly recommend that you include adverbs in  
your
> example vocabulary list.  In general, I'd say don't use them at all.  If
> the troll is keeping an eye on the chicken, I sure as hell am not going  
to
> take the chicken "slowly," or "casually," or "daintily."  I'm gonna grab
> the damn thing and take off.

Exactly.  In situations like this, an appropriate adverb should be  
"assumed" by the game unless explicitly overidden.  For instance, grabbing  
the chicken slowly might give the troll a chance to curse you and in so  
doing provide a clue to a later puzzle in the adventure.  Of course, you  
would then have to fight the troll :-)

The game should also inform you of its choice of adverb - "You grab the  
chicken quickly and beat a hasty retreat before the troll has a chance to  
say anything."


> -- Russ
>

X

--
\\  /    Who:   Toby Paterson
 \\/     How:   tpaterso@cs.ubc.ca, paterson@gdss.commerce.ubc.ca
 //\     What:  Grunt and NeXT hacker; GDSS Fellowship
//  \    Where: University of British Columbia
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: zelevin@athena.mit.edu (Vladimir V Zelevinsky)
Subject: TADS 2.0 fussy on the 8088 PC.
Keywords: TADS
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:30:39 GMT

Well, subject says it all.  Downloaded from FTP.GMD.DE,
worked considerably faster than v.1.1, but the TR.EXE
displayed all characters FUSSY in the text mode.  It's
really hard to explain, but it was impossible to read,
and the screen continued to display fussy characters
when I left TR.  MODE CO80 retuned the screen to normal
mode.

I'm just puzzled.

--
Vladimir.
zelevin@athena.mit.edu
From: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Re: Amusing bloopers during development (spoilers)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 15:54:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ptd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Palmer T. Davis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik) says:
>
>If you're going to port ADVENT, and it's in the public domain, is
>your port is in the public domain as well?

*shrug*  It might as well be:

-----
; advent.adv (should be edited in -*-Lisp-*- mode)
; Crowther and Woods' original Colossal Cave Adventure, rewritten in
; ADVSYS 1.2.2 by Palmer Davis.
; Release 1, 1/1/93
;
; Copyright (c) 1993, Palmer T. Davis.  All rights reserved.
; Also probably copyright 197mumble by Will Crowther and Don Woods, 
; although I couldn't find any copyright messages on the version of
; their code that I stole^H^H^H^H^Hlovingly restored this from.
; (I'm assuming that they really were there but somehow got cut out.)
;
; This file may be freely copied, redistributed, modified, folded, 
; spindled, and/or mutilated, provided that the copyright information
; provided here is retained intact.
-----

>Is Will Crowther still at BBN?  I doubt Don Woods is still at Stanford.
>You might ask them about this if you can find them -- not as though anyone
>else ever asked their permission, but then that was back in the Good Old
>Days when we wrote programs like this so people would enjoy them, and gave
>them away for free.

Which is the reason that I'm doing this.  And what I'm planning to do with 
it when it's done.

-- PTD --
-- 
Palmer T. Davis      ___
<ptd2@po.cwru.edu>   \X/   cthread.  cthread_fork().  Fork, thread, fork!
From: goetz@acsu.buffalo.edu (Phil Goetz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
Subject: Acclaim Entertainment
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:52:20 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

From _Standard and Poor's Corporation Records_, Thur Nov 5, 1992 p. 5345:

Acclaim Entertainment, Inc.
	Obtains Use of Technology to Develop New Interactive Media -
Nov. 5, 1992.  Co. announced that it signed an exclusive technology
agreement with Biomechanics, an Atlanta GA concern, and Ardent Studios,
Memphis TN.
	The technology will allow Co. to create "synthetic actors" through
the conversion of mathematical data obtained via the processes of
geometric modeling, texture mapping and motion capture.  The completed
images and movements of the synthetic actors, based on inanimate objects
or live actors, can be incorporated as video game characters in a
variety of interactive media, including CD-ROM.
	Co. anticipates its first products incorporating the technology
will reach the market during 1993.
--
Don't ask me for details 'cuz that's all I know!

Phil Goetz
From: dag@hpsemc.cup.hp.com (David A Graves)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:51:42 GMT
Subject: FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
Organization: HP VAB Programs
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Re: What words to use and recognize
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:44:13 GMT

pww+@A.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (Peter Weyhrauch) writes:

>Correcting typos:
>   bedrom --> bedroom (deletion)

 This is an interesting touch. Handy, but might under some
circumstances lead to the game making assumptions that you don't want,
no?

>You go to the east.
>You are no longer located in the sunroom.
>You are now located in the bedroom.

>You are in the bedroom:
>    To the south, you see the closet door.
>    To the south, you see the closet.
>    To the west, you see the sunroom.
>    To the west, you see the red bedroom door.

 I don't want to be rude, as I know nothing about the Oz project and
the state of your software development. (I don't doubt that it's very
innovative and ground-breaking.) But this is awful prose. I'm not
crazy about most text adventure prose to begin with, but I highly
doubt that I'd be willing to play a game that read like this. Any
pretenses toward literature are completely absent. Aren't there some
ways of making this repetitive, mechanical text a bit more human? Some
algorithm that can assemble options in a more readable fashion?

 Again, I understand that this is a work in progress and that it's
probably somewhat limited now. Just my $0.02 worth.

>You pet Lyotard.
>Lyotard meows.
>You hear a MEOW.

 Another thought. This is very redundant. I realize that it's
responding to an actor doing something (cat makes a meow sound) and
the game is also reporting an audible event. But shouldn't there be
filters so that only one event is reported? The way it's phrased makes
it sound like the cat meows, and then some disembodied voice says
"MEOW" in response...

 - Neil K. (n_k_guy@sfu.ca)

 (still totally in the dark as to what this Oz project is all about...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.int-fiction
From: pshepard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Pat Shepard)
Subject: TADS for the Amiga: Someone wanted to port it!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:01:56 GMT

I recently sent mail to Mike Roberts requesting that he port TADS to the 
Amiga.  He responded that he can't, since he doesn't have an Amiga, but he
is looking for someone who could.  Unfortunately my competance with C isn't
up to the job.  I told him I would post a request that someone who is both
competant with C and an Amiga user get in touch with him about doing 
the porting job.  So if you have an Amiga and know C and are interested in
porting TADS to the Amiga, please send him mail.  His internet address is
73737.417@compuserve.com.  I know that not only the Amiga owners out there
would be happy about this, but all current TADS authors - it would increase
their prospective audience nicely. :)                   
 
Thanks,
 
Pat
**
Disclaimer?  I secretly *own* this school.
From: barb@public.BTR.COM (Barbara MacRae)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Re: tattoo nightmares
Date: 17 Dec 92 08:12:58 GMT
Organization: Saint Sebastian's School for Wicked Girls

In article <4394@unisql.UUCP> ray@unisql.UUCP (Ray Shea) writes:
>In article <1gno9pINNhae@roche.csl.sri.com> kmac@cisco.com (Karl MacRae) writes:
>>	No wait, maybe it's just his penis reminding him that it's 
>>	still in controll?
>
>Ha!  I'll just get it pierced.  That'll show it who's boss.


Ah! So *THAT'S* why you guys do it!

-Barb
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: sldesroc@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Shannon L. Desroches)
Subject: nipple piercings/large breasts
Summary: just wait
Keywords: see title
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 17:20:40 EST

What are some of the experiences of women with large breasts who've had their 
nipples pierced?  Does there seem to be an  (Oops--sorry) extra-long 
healing perioed in comparison to friends of less voluptitude who have undergone
the same process?  Does one have to go braless for a while? I am seriously
considering having both nipples pierced, but absolutely cannot go without a bra,
lest they start swinging around my knees.

What are some experiences with women who have navel piercings and have subseq-
uently gotten pregnent?  (I had mine done after my first delivery)  

As for stretching inner labia, by far the best method (or at least most
expedient) would be a vaginal delivery.  It did wonders for mine.

Thanks for your patience with these initial garbled efforts . . . 

please post, or e-mail replies to
sldesroc@mailbox.syr.edu

no sig yet . . . 

SHAN---L.A. transplant stuck in Siberia

Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: an895@anon.penet.fi (bo from the bowels of the basement)
Subject: Listing of Types
X-Anonymously-To: rec.arts.bodyart
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 11:02:13 GMT


I tried sending this several days ago but it never showed up.

Could some one post a listing of all the different types of
piercings there are and a short(5 word or so) discription of
what they are.  Some of the postings are baffling me with
names like PA etc.

Thanks for helping the confused.
bo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd)
Subject: Re: Pierce #4...(not counting the boring ones!)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:00:38 GMT

Wild Bill Corona writes:
>In Article 4539 <Alexander Pakter> tells us about his new pierce:
>>Hi networld-
>Hola

>>Michaela did the pierce.  The first thing she told me is that she was
>>going to use a local anesthetic I found this very strange, because I though

>Did she anesthetic or antiseptic...when I got my PA, my piercer said
>antiseptic...Betadyne, I think..You don't need an anesthetic for a PA, IMHO,
>as it is a relatively simple, quick-healing pierce. They do have to *clean*
>the um..ahem..area, tho =8)

The PA is apparently the only pierce where a local is actually effective, a
little orogel on a Qtip down the urethra is effective & easy.  It's not a
prticularly painful pierce, it's just one that's rediculously easy to freeze.

>>        The piercing itself was fairly painless -- they drop a metal guide
>>tube down in the urethra, and the needle goes down the center of that.  Nice
>>and quick.  However, they started with a 10 ga., which seemed huge to me,
>>but they know best.

>That was *FUN*...not!  Felt like something was crawling around in there.
>I'm not clear on something...the piercing needle was 10 ga. and your PA was
>a smaller gauge or you just didn't realize the size of a 10ga. PA ring??

Alternatively the needle can be slid down the urethra and pushed out below the
glans, less hardware involved.

>>        The thing that really surprised me was the blood -- enormous quantities
>>of it.  I woke up the next morning with my shorts covered in blood (and I even
>>put on a condom to guard against this -- the condom was full too).  A little
>>burning when I pee, but not much.  And it looks SO COOL!  Especially together
>>with my amp, my little man really looks like a little man -- two bug eyes
>>and a hanging nose.

>The day after I got mine, I went to a Halloween party...Needless to say I
>didn't do *alot* of dancing...*and* I was riding a motorcycle!!! =8}
>Let's see...Blood...There was TONS of blood..I bled for a couple of days.
>Finally it abated...*then* we got to the itchy part...yeesh !! =;>

Weird, mine hardly bled at all, milage eh?
-- 
Pete Hurd, hurd@sfu.ca| Q: Why did the Jungle Fowl cross the road?          |
Behavioural Ecology   | A: To maximize it's lifetime reproductive success   |
Dept.Biol.Sci., SFU.  | Q: Huh?                                             |
Burnaby B.C., Canada  | A: I guess it just needed to get to the other side. |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart