From: bador@bnr.ca (Yasmin Bador)
Subject: Re: racial harmony- Yasmin
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 10:12:27 GMT

In article <3379@peking.gdwb.oz.au> mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
>bador@bnr.ca (Yasmin Bador) writes:
>>>
>>>Did you ever passed your comprehension ?
>
>>Imbecility breeds abusive language.
>>I do not welcome rude behaviour from you sir. And I would
>
>Please don't throw your tantrum around , young lady. Does this
>sound better to you ? 
>Now, where is the abusive language ? By asking whether you
>ever passed your comprehension ? or is it using words like
>imbecility ?
> Remember it was you who started using 'strong' language
> (but I won't say ABUSIVE !)

Try the words "patronizing, patriachial, condescending"
instead to describe your language.
And a couple more :"deliberately obtuse and antagonistic"
And please don't assume my youth Mister.
Not all of us are wet behind the ears and hot blooded to boot.

(For the rest of you, yes, I've been reading big books
with difficult sppeliong. Got to have more than just K&C
in life, a bit more Milan K, instead!! :) :) :) )


>
>Of course you said you eat in Chinese Vegetarian Restaurants.
>No misquote & no comprehension problem please. 
>What I said was the muslims would not even enter for a drink in
>Chinese shops (Not vegetarian restaurants please.). This is
>not hearsay but my thousands and one experiences with many
>PRACTISING muslims in Malaysia for many years, especially
>those from the rural areas. We used to stop for drinks ONLY
>when we travelled, and my muslim colleages(yes they are friends
>too) would not enter with me to a Chinese shop even if I buy them
>drinks; remember I am not EATING please .

Please quote me properly. If you won't, just don't bother to reply.
I did say there is nothing wrong with drinking in a Chinese restaurants
Most roadside hawkers are Chinese. Malays buy drinks and sometimes
food from them. Surely you must know all this being the good
Malaysian that you are.

>Now don't mistaken me, they are good , sincere, & friendly
>practising muslims, & not hypocrites. I have nothing against
>them, I respect their belief, their sincerity. But what I am 

"Patronizing mode on" - Good for you!

>saying is although for a perfectly so called valid reasons
>it still hinder social integration. For example, no
>way I can invite them for a home cooked meal (understood
>without PORK(as you put it the SHIT-doesn't it sounds
>insulting & abusive too for saying another race favourite food
>SHIT ? especially from a supposedly well educated and sensitive,
>& refined lady like you ?))

"Najis" is a Malay translation of an Islamic term that means
"unclean". Yes dogs, pigs, blood, etc is "unclean" and that is part
of the Islamic laws.(hukum). If you cannot fully appreciate or 
understand this I suggest you take your questions to soc.religion.islam.
It is not a derogatary term in this case, just the correct Malay 
"interpertation" of an Islamic hukum. The Malay word may not be "correct"
but I'm not a Malay ulama

>Call it whatever you like, this is still some form of prejudices !
>Likewise Chinese have their perfectly valid reasons for any
>prejudices against others. Now, in a multiracial society
>like Malaysia compromise to certain extent should be encouraged for
>all parties. How many times do I have to repeat that my issues
>was that muslims do have prejudices against non-muslims, so do
>others have prejudices against muslims ? And all claim to have
>valid reasons ?

Agreed, that both sides have a lot of prejudices.
This argument thread started out almost like the playgound
name calling of "China makan babi" from the Malays and 
"Melayu makan belacan" from the Chinese.
A bit purile.
I think we can all agree that tolerance and sensitivity are the two
main factors in racial harmony . (something else I wrote that
was left out of this reply)
>
>>Why pick on one thing? Yes, most conservative Muslims (not
>
>This is just an example. Understanding problem again ?

Patronizing again?

>
>>mind it, but I have very good non-Muslim friends who
>>will not eat pork in front of me though I never ask them to.
>
>Me too . :)

>>Muslim ladies do not have any problem with non-Muslim
>>ladies in general, whereas they would have if we follow
>>your argument. In you haste to flame me, please think
>>about this first!
>
>You mean men & ladies are same ? With ladies you won't
>be caught Khawat you know ?? :)

Don't be obtuse sir. Your argument as I recall it is that Malays
consider the Chinese somehow unclean. I did say that Muslim ladies
can shake hands with ANY(notice this!!) non-related man provided she has
her hands covered. Muslim ladies do not have ANY problems wit ANY
non-Muslim sisters.

>You ignorant this time madam, you can be put in prisons in
>Malaysia for not converting !

A person may convert in name only. I'm sure you know of Catholic,
Jewish, and Muslim interacial-interbelief couples who do this.

>
>Remember you are dealing with people you said eat 'NAJIS'.
Try soc.religion.islam. for explanation.

[stuff deleted]

I've been reading this newsgroup for a couple of years but
have never see the level of silliness and almost total
hatred shown in the recent postings (I DO NOT mean Mee Teng
himself, just in general, a couple of postings in specific)

Are you lot of Malaysians out there really that bad???

Yes, Zam was unruly but at least he was keen to build some form
of harmony not just stirring things up.
I appreciate the few sane posts from people like Dennis Chuah
and other old-timers. They, as me, have seen it all and hope
that things will quiten down as soon as people get bored.

Till then, I'd better finish this bit of code( and make my
rojak buah)

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