HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: willie@osf.org (William Williams)
Subject: Music from film Humoresque
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:27:07 GMT


Can anyone here tell me the composition that is played in
the final scene of the 1946 film _Humoresque_?   This is
the scene where the William Garfield character is playing
Carnegie Hall, and, while he plays what sounds to me like
a Wagner violin concero (is there such a thing?), his
love/patron (the Joan Crawford character) drowns herself
in the swelling ocean.

Unfortunately, the cast and credits were cut off in the
TV broadcast I was watching.  I did find, from a movie book,
that Isaac Stern was actually playing the violin.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: 910394f@axe.acadiau.ca (JAMES LEON FALCONE)
Subject: trumpet concertino
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:08:43 GMT

Hi, This might seem pretty obscure to most of you, but can anyone tell me of 
an existing recording of the Riisager concertino for trumpet?
                    Jamie
From: maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: tonal value of chords and harmonic series [?]
Date: 28 Jan 1993 18:02:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan28.022546.12886@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
|> 
|> The meaning of that chord and of any other chord depends on the context.
|> That's true. But I believe there is an "out of context", "intrinsic" value
|> too for some chords. Play C-E-G-A on the piano. Do you feel the need to move
|> to somewhere else?

Bach would, though he might hear it as a version of the
tonic in A (actually, this would require more context,
like a sequence in fifths).  Morton Feldman wouldn't, but
he wouldn't hear it as the tonic of anything.  Seems to me
you're relying on an implicit context.

|> Now if I play B-E-F. I feel I've begun something that sounds like a V-I
|> cadence. To me the "intrinsic value" of B-E-F is to be a V chord (notice the
|> fundamental is not stated). That doesn't mean that in context this couldn't
|> be, say, a II chord in minor.

You're talking about the *chord* B-E-F?  I don't hear that
as the dominant of anything -- though with the right
spacing I might be able to make it suggest the dominant of
A.  (Isn't this the boss motivic cell of some Takemitsu
quartet?) Again, I think you need to drop back a level and
discover the context you're calling "intrinsic".

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu (The_Doge
Subject: Re: Should I join BMG?  
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 04:05:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.140339.21538@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com writes:
>
>I've been thinking this one over.  Is the music selection offered anything to
>write home about?  Is it worth the hassle?  Is it worth the stamp you have to
>spend every month to send the dumb card back to tell them not to send anything
>this month?   
>
	I'm a bit ambiguous on this one myself.  I've been a member for 
several years now and I will admit that I've gotten some pretty decent deals
from them; 2-for-1 and 3-for-1 sales seem to be common.  And even thought the
P&H charges eat of some of the savings, you can still get some nice stuff at
a decent price, without having to deal with driving to a store and wandering
through the aisles.
	But their selection really is heavily weighted towards the musical
mainstream, and smaller labels are not well-represented, if at all.  And the
monthly dumb card can be an annoyance. On the other hand, they've always been
good about crediting my account if I refuse shipment on something I didn't
mean to order.
	On the whole, I'd say to for it if the introductory offer looks good.
The_Doge
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Uses of technology was Re: The Roman "Tosca"
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:17:27 EST

In article <1993Jan20.160457.21969@decvax.dec.com>
simon@mallard.edec.locus.com (simon R) writes:

>I wonder, had the technology been available, whether Puccini
>would have blessed this enterprise - 'verismo' pushed to an
>extreme, perhaps ?

This is a fun idea to fiddle around with -- what composers might have
welcomed technological innovations that the tradition-bound part of us
might find hard to accept?

I for one believe that Wagner would have gone wild with technology.  Anyone
who in the 1860s wanted to dangle singers from ropes so they'd look like
they were swimming underwater as they sang would have a lot of fun today.
Special effects.  Studio recording.  Video.  MIDI.  What if Peter Sellars,
Glenn Gould and Richard Wagner all collaborated in a video production of
the Ring?

Now what about Mozart?

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:06:59 GMT

In article <qzq3qm#@rpi.edu> mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.234010.10975@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:

[it ain't me, babe!]

>>>(Question:  Are there any serious orchestral or large ensemble 
>>>pieces written in one of the far out keys?  And are there any 
>>>with piano?  If so, what kinds of tuning problems do they have?)+

>It depends on how one defines "far out" I suppose, but I always thought that
>the 12 "standard" keys (derived as some perturbation of Zarlino's previous
>discussion on the 12 modal scales) were: C major, C minor, D major, D minor,
>E minor, F major, G major, G minor, A major, A minor, Bb major, B minor.
>These keys certainly go back to the early days of tonality.

Well, yes and no.  In Italy there was a mapping of eight keys (the so-called
"church keys") onto the eight mode names.  There may have been a 12-key
system, too.  

Mattheson's discussion of keys and affections has 15 entries, not including
B minor but including F# minor.  Otherwise, it's very close to Bach's 15
in the Inventions and Sinfonias.

>>Haydn Farewell Symphony (F# major/minor); it plays on all the 
>>difficulties ofthe key.  The one that follows is in B major.
>>Many arias by Handel in F sharp minor.  Generally lamenting.

>Corelli Op. 2/9 in F# minor.

>>Lots of Chopin.  (D flat/b flat minor were favorite keys because they
>>feel nice under the hands.)  

>Chopin certainly used new keys.

Well, *unusual* ones.  Plenty of people had used them before.

>>Beethoven Sonata Op. 78: F sharp.  Moonlight Sonata: C sharp minor.

>Beethoven as well -- though it is his Ab major which strikes me as most
>impressive in this regard.

How do you mean?

>>The B minor Mass.  Mozart's B minor adagio.

>There's tons of earlier stuff in B minor.  Indeed, wasn't it one of the
>most used keys in the early baroque?

No.  I don't know why you'd say that.  Not all that much stuff in B
minor, really; Mozart wrote that one movement, and Beethoven called it
"Die schwarze Tonart."  And barely used it himself.  Many writers called
it "bizarre" and the like; c-based tunings would easily lead to such a
judgment.  

Roger
From: ayers@adobe.com (Robert Ayers)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: The popular song made from the classical music ...
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:59:38 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

When I listen to
 
    Debussy  Images book one, number VIII 
    
or

    Borodin  String Quartet number two, third movement, "Nocturne"

I can *almost* remember the popular song that was created
from each work.  Almost.  Can you help by supplying the name
of the song?

Bob
From: leblanc@knuth.mtsu.edu (Stuart LeBlanc)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: BMG December catalog query
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:13:35 -0600
Organization: Dept of Comp Science, Middle Tenn State Univ, Murfreesboro, TN
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: knuth.mtsu.edu

>I need someone to clarify the offer in the December "Encore" (#
>C/88/O, I believe). This was the one with 60% off. I've discarded mine
>but I thought it was everything but the main selection at 60% off with
>one free. Was I suffering from a Christmas fever? My choices arrived
>today and both are 60% off but nothing free. And of course the deal
>is to get as many as possible at the least expenditure!

Yes, I made the same mistake... apparently the second selection would be
free *only* if you took the "featured selection" (at the "regular club
price," of course).  Otherwise it would be 60% off.

Stuart LeBlanc
Guitar Instructor
MTSU Dept. of Music
From: kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music killed by movies
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:51:40 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

I haven't seen anyone mention the middle movement of Mozart's C major
Piano Concerto (K. 467), now forever known as "Elvira Madigan".  As a 
result, the movement seems kind of schmaltzy, and certainly it's become
overplayed (sometimes one hears it by itself, whereas it's much easier
to take when surrounded by the less sentimental outer movements).  

JK
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Want comments on Shaw's Mahler Symphony #8
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:30:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.222313.6827@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:

>BTW just remembered. Sony's new release sheet has a single disc Sony
>Essential Classics (read CHEAP) Mahler 8 conducted by Michael Gielen
>available next week. I'm still awaiting a review copy, but, as Steve
>Apter will confirm, Gielen's Mahler is worth listening to. Anyone know
>anything about this recording? I'm not aware of its ever being issued
>before. 

It came out on CBS LPs (in the US, at least) in the mid to late 1980s,
though with very little publicity -- I don't think I ever saw a review.
My guess at the time was they were made for the German market (I think
it was a live or radio performance with one of the German radio
orchestras), and a few imported formally to the US (and possibly
elsewhere).  Gielen is a conductor whom I respect, and some (not all) of
the soloists look interesting.  I'll probably pick this up when its
label is on sale and it becomes cheaper yet.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument (was Re: The shortest distance between two chords is...)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:46:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.165829.20596@colorado.edu> judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:
>Upon further reflection a reasonable, I think, analogy comes to mind.  There
>is currently a thread regarding recordings of Bach partitas an sonatas (the
>best performer, incidentally, is, of course, Kay Newnam, obscure violinist
>of the southwest).  The music is the same, but it is played differently by
>all these different performers.  This is about how I feel about most pop
>music - it's the same music, it just gets played differently.

And there's the problem.  If you define "music" as chords and tunes
and rhythms, then you have a point.  But most of us don't limit the
definition of music to that.  To most of us, music is the *activity*
of performing, of composing, of listening.  And when two performers
do their versions of "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes," it's different music, 
you betcha.  They've worked out a version of the song that involves
all kinds of musical decisions.  And the music in their performance
is entirely theirs, based on the framework of melody and chords that 
the composer provided.  

Rock isn't based on composition, and never has been.  Some groups have 
used more composition than others -- the Beatles are our prime example, 
but there are many others -- but arrangement, performance, improvisation,
studio technique, stage presence, and lots of other components are far 
more important in rock.  

And that's not surprising, considering that people use rock for different
purposes than they use "classical" music.

Roger
From: lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Questions about John Knowles Paine & Donizetti
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:08:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: software.9301252050.AA14907
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In a recent posting, Deeptendu Majumder (dips@cad.gatech.edu) writes:
>I was listening to John Knowles Paine's Symph # 2. I liked it.

Very nice work.  You'd probably also like the first.

>But at places I noticed some very distinct similarities with
>some works that I have heard before. For example in the first
>movement there is a section that sounded like part of Beethoven's
>7th symphony (I do not remember the exact movement) 

Beethoven Sym #7  1812
Paine     Sym #2  1879
Mahler    Sym #5  1902

Entirely possible.  You'd be hard pressed to find a symphony written
since Beethoven that wasn't influenced by him.  Paine was very much
influenced by N. European symphonic models, so there are probably
many similar hints to be found. 


>and then
>the 3rd movement (Adagio) sounded little bit like the Adagietto
>from Mahler's 5th symphony. Are these similarities just my 
>imagination or do they show influence of certain other composers
>on Paine ? or may be the similarities are just incidental ?

Some similarlities are undoubtedly incidental.  Composers often pay
homage to their predecessors that have had an impact on their art.
It is highly unlikely that Mahler influenced Paine, however.  (:-)

Dave
lampson@pulse.com

For detailed lists of Recommended Classical CDs, Basic Repertoire and Buying
Guide access cs.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4) by anonymous FTP, or email me for info.

Contribute to the rec.music.classical biography project!  Email me your bio!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: eclipse@netcom.com (Brian McCullough)
Subject: Re: Music killed by movies
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:46:27 GMT

yedid@CAM.ORG (Gabriel Yedid) writes:
: 
:      I read Deryk Barker's post about his response to what is wrong (or
: not) with Bolero.  He went on to a discussion about pieces of classical
: music that have been immortalized, for better or for worse, on the silver
: screen.  Here's a list of other things that have been wrapped in so many
: layers of silver-screen mother-of-pearl that it is more often than not
: nearly impossible to appreciate them on their own:
: >
: >
: 2001 is a multiple offender.  I think mostly of moon shots, zero-g flight
: attendants, and spacebound SST's when I hear Blue Danube; Ligeti's Requiem
: still brings thoughts of black blocks of stone to mind.  "Gayne's Theme"
: conjures up images of guys running on walls and rotating donuts.
: >
: Borodin's Polovtsian Dances will never be the same after the number done
: on them by Kismet.
: >
: The opening chorus of Carmina Burana has been used many times, if not in
: movies themselves, in the teasers that come out a few months before they
: do (the last one I distinctly remember was for a flick called Warlock,
: which came out a couple of years back).  Here in Montreal, further damage
: has been done to it by adding extraneous samples and a dance beat (any-
: where else?)
: >
: In the teaser for 1492:  Conquest of Paradise, "Mars" (from The Planets)
: was used to accompany Columbus on the high seas.
: >
: Who can forget the travesty of German terrorists breaking into a high-tech
: safe to the strains of "Ode to Joy" (a televised warhorse if ever there
: was one) in Die Hard?
: >
: >
: Can anyone else add to this collection?
: >
: >
: Gabe Yedid (yedid@champlain.cam.org)

Piece:  "Rhapsody in Blue"; Composer:  George Gershwin
Culprit:  United Airlines

   The cheesy arrangements only rub salt in.  AAARRRGH!

Piece:  "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor"; Composer:  J.S. Bach
Culprit:  Disney's "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," half of all
          monster movies made before 1950 

Piece:  "Adagio for Strings"; Composer:  Samuel Barber
Culprit:  "The Elephant Man," "Platoon"

   These two pieces of music, when I hear them by themselves, I would 
describe as "solemn and contemplative;" the movies have given them as-
sociations far more morbid.

Piece:  "Ride of the Valkyries"; Composer:  Richard Wagner
Culprit:  Chuck Jones, Warner Bros. Pictures

   I will NEVER be able to hear this again without thinking:
   "Kill the Wabbit!  Kill the Wabbit!  Kill the Wabbit!!!!"


-- 
---------------------------------
Brian C. McCullough   eclipse@netcom.netcom.com  Opinions of self only

"The early worm goes forth with zeal to give the hungry birds a meal.
His brother has no such intention, and lives to draw his old-age pension."
         -Montagu C. Butler
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Subject: Re: Brahms Basher Repents
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:16:11 GMT

Bravo, Mike!  You are showing excellent taste.  Now try some of Brahms'
chamber works, perhaps his strongest compositions.....
-- 
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
>    Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu    <
> "Never look at the trombones. It only encourages them."  -Richard Strauss <
*>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu (Dale Atems)
Subject: Re: Want comments on Shaw's Mahler Symphony #8
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:51:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.222116.6759@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless) writes:
>: In article <1993Jan21.061425.25782@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
>: >
>: >Someone was asking about great discoveries of 1992.  Well poking
>: >around in the CD collection in my public library and trying to expand
>: >my world a bit, I grab a 2 CD set of Mahler's 3rd Symphony, conducted
>: >by Bernstein and the NYPO.  Wow!  I have heard this before, but it
>: >never had this impact -- maybe a tribute to Bernstein.  So I am off
>: >
>: This is my favorite 3rd, by far.
>: >I have the mahler.txt by Mr. Barker as well as the Penguin Guide,
>: >
>: Use the former more than the latter. :)
>
>Too kind. I presume you are referring to the DG Bernstein, not the
>CBS. I have a sneaking feeling that the remake is not better, but am
>prepared to be corrected. I still stick with Horenstein though.

IMHO the remake (Bernstein on DG) is a better performance than the old
one on CBS, but is miked so close that some of the ambiance is lost.
This is especially a problem in the night song 4th movement, as some
reviewers have noted.

>: >Mahler Symphony #5 -- Solti, Chicago Symphony -- London (Decca) 1991
>: >	This one already got me -- It is well recorded but it is
>: >	the only #5 I have ever heard, so I have nothing to compare
>: >	it to.  Comments?  Have I missed something else really superb?
>: 
>: Yes - the analog Solti/Chicago recording, among others.  I don't want
>: to sound anti-digital here, but IMHO these are the best two recordings
>: of these two works.  The playing in the old Solti 5 is quite noticably
>: better than in the live digital one.  And both are "late analog", so you
>: aren't sacrificing much at all.  Also, you can get the 5th on "The Solti
>: Edition" series, now (a budget line of classic Solti recordings on Decca).
>
>The VPO/Bernstein is available on mid-price DG, and the classic
>NPO/Barbirolli is on mid-price EMI. I'd bet on either of those before Solti.

Just to put in a plug/caveat for the Bernstein: this is a vastly
superior performance to his old NYPO issue on CBS, but as always with
Bernstein, a bit eccentric. The Rondo-Finale is taken at a *very*
leisurely pace! Still, he winds up convincing me that this is not a
bad tempo after all, a pretty tough feat.

------
Dale Atems
Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Department of Physics and Astronomy
atems@igor.physics.wayne.edu
From: danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Guiomar Novaes recordings
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:36:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

There was a recent thread re: Novaes.  Her Chopin Nocturnes are 
available on Allegro _ON CASSETTE TAPE_, so the sound quality is
probably not real excellent, but they're there. I got them at bargain 
prices in some store somewhere.

	Allegro 8086 and 8110

I don't know if this means they're out on CD, but whoever was
interested might check the Allegro catalog.

Dan Hobbs
danielh@seqent.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gerritse@sci.kun.nl (Bart Gerritse)
Subject: Re: Biography questions (of Wagner singers)
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:42:17 GMT

In <C15pxq.CuE@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:

>In article <199301192136.AA27641@shuldig.cs.huji.ac.il> misha@CS.HUJI.AC.IL (Michael Pak) writes:

>F-D still performs (at least he records), carefully rationing his
>appearances and repertoire.  I'm still hoping that Graham Johnson
>enlists him (as I know he wants to) to make one disc in the Hyperion
>Schubert Lied series.  Solti is now music director of the Salzburg
>Festival, and makes guest-conducting appearances.

This morning (that is january 25) I read in the newspapers that Fischer
Dieskau has ended his singing career.

>Jon Alan Conrad

Bart Gerritse
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: carnes@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Re: Bach Art of Fugue
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:33:30 GMT

The most enjoyable way to experience The Art of Fugue (IMHO), assuming
you are a sufficiently skilled keyboardist, is to practice playing it
on harpsichord or piano, reading from the original open score.  This
is difficult at first, but it's a great score- and clef-reading
exercise (very useful skills for any musician).  Remember that Bach
did not write this music to be passively "consumed"; he wanted his
contrapuntal nuts and bolts to be noted and savored by people who
appreciated such artifices.

Richard Carnes
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Meistersinger
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:53:44 EST

In article <C1G1Do.KHo@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu writes:
>In any case I confidently expect the
>music to sweep Rothstein's piece out of my head when I go to see the
>new production on Saturday night.

Meistersinger was broadcast last Saturday, and it sounded much better than
I might have expected from Bob K's writing, though it was not without its
less than perfect moments.

The high point of the afternoon for me came during the Texaco Opera Quiz,
when Fr. Owen Lee scored 100% on the question, "Name all the master singers
and the guilds they represent."  He rattled them all off, including the one
who called in sick.

Now how many of you could do that without cheating?  Be honest.  %^)

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com