HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: LA on the Tundra
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:09:09 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In <53iuPB2w164w@coldbox.cojones.com> system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood) writes:

>hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987) writes:

>> Something I've always wondered is:
>> 
>> What do you use for motor oil?  Antifreeze?  Etc?  The antifreeze bottle I

>But at 40 below, we try not to drive the thing. That kind of cold is VERY
>hard on machinery. I've seen snapped flex plates, teeth broken off ring
>gears, bendix gears ruined, etc. Once snapped a tie rod when trying to turn a
>tight corner in the cold!
hmm had a car frozen to the ground once, just rubber to concrete.
the buildings in greenland continuosly sink into the ice and need
to have new pilings every year or two (also snow build up).
while my problems are not typically as bad as yours, when living in rural
areas of the n-midwest it also behoves one to pay attention to similar types
of detail. we use synthetic oils and greases (or in some cases nothing, as
the wear with no lub is less than the possibility of breakage)
bill pociengel

sure am glad i don't live where it gets really hot :-)
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: coleve@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Re: Networking farm buildings
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:12:36 GMT

In article <12555@grayt>, grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:
> In article <Aug07.154650.13185@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> wsnell@hoss.agsci.colostate.edu () writes:
>>Has anyone installed an ethernet network between farm buildings?
>>If so, what did you use for cable?
>>
> 
> If you are intending to run cable outside of a building, you should
> ensure that you have adequate lightning protection.
> Telephone interfaces are designed to be protected from 22000 volt
> 2000 amp strikes with 10ns rise times. Such strikes have been
> known to melt telephones which have been connected to loops whose
> protection was defective.
> 
> Note that even underground cables require protection.
> 
Very true.  The only safe, easily available way to connect buildings is
fiber optic.   You will have to shop around, but the prices are getting
close to reasonable.  Any solution involving copper will be in danger
from electrical transients.

If you MUST use thin ethernet, get high quality cable (such as Belden 9907).
Run the cable in conduit and ground the conduit, but NOT the cable shield.
The entire thinwire should be grounded at EXACTLY one point.  I would use
an effect earth ground which is also bonded to the grounding system of my most
expen$ive computer.  Ethernet cards should stand about 500 volts offset between
the ethernet and frame ground. That may be enough for SMALL events.

Your local Ham radio "elmer" should be able to help you design an effective
grounding system.
--
-- Vern Cole -- Systems Manager -- Utah Valley Community College --
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bhushan@fmiapd.com (Bhushan Kerur)
Subject: TEST
Organization: Fujitsu Microelectroics Inc
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:37:04 GMT

TEST TEST
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Subject: Bill's Many Messages
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 23:40:31 GMT


Bill Pociengel:  You certainly are making your presence felt on this
bbs!
I could not agree more with your proposal for desalinization plants
here in California.
More generally, may I ask: are there any environmental problems which
you consider urgent enough to address as a rural resident?

In the area of clean or renewable energy on a farm situation or rural
area...do you think this is worthy of research and new inventions?

I think you misinterpet my intent .... I hope for constructive discussion
from my messages...I am raising questions in environmental areas which
are often discussed throughout the various media (and scientific journals,
etc.).  I certainly do not have all the solutions nor nearly all the
data...although I wish I had more time to do intensive study in certain
of my interest areas.
On a more light hearted note:  do you really think there is any chance
of multitudes of people wanting to settle in your "backyard"--the cold
north midwest---no matter how renewable the energy gets etc...or how
bad the cities become...it is hardly likely.
The same is true of Alaska.  People who become used to a warm climate
have a great difficulty leaving...no matter what the situation.

I sincerely hope that the new generation of small farm owners who are
often educated and move from the cities to a better life, will find
better ways of designing the small farm...both for crop growing
efficiency and for greater harmony with nature.
-- 
            Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Subject: Re: Bill's Many Messages
Summary: Small farm re-design, New Alchemy Institute
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:32:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.231646.18939@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
>are educated and move from the cities to a better life, will find new
>ways of designing the small farm to be more in harmony with nature.
A-men to that! I live on a small 6 acre farm and grow organic produce for
a living. When I started out I sure could have used sound guidance in farm,
garden and house design. Maybe those of us in rec.gardens and misc.rural
can put together information resources to be used by anyone in similar
situations. I am currently working on helping set up a FTP, FAQ and
mailing list site here in NC to provide access to archives of select news
from these 2 newsgroups as well as the FAQ's underway in rec.gardens
plus archives of information I have in my collection (I host a Sustainable
Agriculture newsgroup in FidoNet and have collected much useful and
interesting material over the years) as well as that sent in by others.

I have enjoyed your posts considerably over the past months. I guess you
know about the alt.co-evolution newsgroup? BTW I am hoping we will have a
Freenet here in this part of North Carolina soon. 

About the arctic greenhouse: I was thinking about the possibility of
building a geodesic dome greenhouse with small facets made of modules of 
some tough polycarbonate-like plastic with a high light transmission
factor with air or gas-filled cores and shaped as Fresnel lenses. This would
allow for concentration of heat and light that could be stored. :-)


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Alaskan Biosphere
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:56:39 GMT

In <1992Aug8.224941.26648@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:

[some really wierd stuff deleted]
>....Think of it....I am reclining in by nightfall...sandy beach...warm
>with sun (lamp) and even blue sky panels with wispy clouds...in the
>distance (prob. 50 feet )...is you guessed it .... a hologram of the
>Huntington Beach Pier...complete with surfers...
>Yes...I have finally brought LA to the tundra.....
oh no. come on mike. wake up!
are you not from the same place that wanted to put in a 48" pipeline
from the greatlakes to california so's you could water the lawn, which you
then buy weedeaters so you can cut it?
are you from this very same california?
(well we are halfway to killing this thread, it's come full circle. now 
all we need is that german dictator from the forties and it's dead)

bill pociengel

p.s. why does california never consider using desalination plants to
generate its fresh water supply??
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Ban Gas Weedeaters
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:48:17 GMT

In <1992Aug9.215556.18752@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:


[stuff deleted]
>solutions.  Various exhaust devices can be installed on these motors which
>have tended to escape all pollution controls (weedeaters, chain saws, etc.).
at the race track a few hundred miles from here, the car operators
out of politness decided to make a muffler out of a 55 gal drum (for late
night tuneups, etc) the newbies decided that would be a good thing to use
during the races. you figure

>It is also something to think about...one's own health in terms of frequent
>use of such machines.
>I personally believe that cleaner engines (and yes electric motors are not
>very practical for this tool)...based on alcohol, methane, or propane have
>been available on the drawing board for decades...but the oil company....
>convenience/consumer mentality has ignored them....
tsk tsk tsk items are ignored by the purchaser only when they cost more.

>There is particularly a real irony with alcohol...this fuel is extremely
>easy to produce in a farm situation...the biggest problem here is human
>nature...a fuel with shall we say a few too many uses....only 8 acres of
>properly farmed corn (or other crop) produces enough to fuel use of a car
>for a full year....
pretty sweeping statement. what king of car, how many miles, what kind
of digester, what duration of digesting. what type of corn, was the stalk
also digested? please use facts and isbn # if possible.

>Meanwhile, our methane deposits in this country are largely untapped and
>could be used as a gas substitute with at least 80% reduction in emissions.
where did this number come from? do you include recreational engines?,
lawnmowers? aircraft, fixed engines?
bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Used motoroil furnace?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 06:21:09 PDT
Organization: The Generation Gap

hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987) writes:

> Tom Monson (monson@hpsad.sad.hp.com) wrote:
> : Does anybody know of a proven design for a heater/furnace that burns used m
> : oil?
> :                                      Thanks,      TC Monson
> 
> Alternately, is it safe/advisable to dump my used motor oil into my fuel-oil
> tank for my furnace?  The furnace burns deisel fuel (more or less), would a
> bit of motor oil (synthetic) hurt it?  Enquiring minds want to know <tm>.

I've seen "Waste Oil Heaters" in use in several places but am not fully
cognizant of what makes them special. I know a fellow whom I could ask, and
will do so at the next opportunity.

I'm pretty doggone sure he'd say "No! Don't put your engine oil into the
furnace fuel tank!". I think it'd be likely to clog up your burner nozzle,
which resembles a brass sponge at one end. Also, there will be traces of
heavier metals in that oil, which may get caught by your furnace oil filter
or may go on to get clogged in the nozzle (which has a tiny little orifice at
the other end). If you're mechanically inclined, you could easily change the
$5.00 nozzle yourself if this happened, but otherwise be prepared for a
service call at whatever the prevailing rates are.

I don't think your furnace fuel pump would be affected by used motor oil, but
I could be wrong...

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Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Rabbits
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:26:20 GMT

In <345900004@peg.pegasus.oz.au> lcnet@peg.pegasus.oz.au writes:


>Does anyone have any information on the control of plague rabbits.
>They are causing havoc in areas of Australia where they are
>contributing to massive land degradation  problems. Any new or
>alternative control techniques being used in other parts of the
>world may be very helpful in designing for new techniques here.
this will probably sound sick and horable but .....
sdi?
turn some old war type death dealing uh ummmmm equipment on them?
personally the idea of a laser light show over the desert of au 
seems kinda .... interesting.
just one of those days ya know.
bill pociengel

--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Myxomatosis
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:23:42 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Aug21.000507.2275@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
>rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay) writes:

>>The main limiting factor is the presence of suitable insect vectors. In most
>>of Australia, mosquitoes do the work quite effectively, but not in some of the
>>coldest dryest areas, and hence, there is a fair bit of research work going 
>>into alternative vectors such as various species of rabbit fleas. (Oh, if
>>you're wondering why I'm talking about myxomatosis from the perspective of 
>>efficient spread, you've never seen photographs of a serious rabbit plague).

>Good point.  In winter the rabbit fleas keep warm in the burrows with the
>rabbits, and spread the disease within a warren.  Mosquitoes spread the
>disease between warrens.  I recall reading that the NW USA/SW Canada area
>has some fairly large and muscular mosquitoes and other bities.

I remember reading (in a book on rabbit hunting using ferrets in Britain)
that most North American species of rabbits do not build warrens like the
British species or the ones imported into Australia.

In Britain, rabbits tend to form medium to large size colonies, often with
hundreds of yards worth of tunnels.  In North America, most of the rabbits
form only very small groups, and very small warrens - if any - many of them
live in underbrush rather than underground.

Thus, population density and proximity is much lower in North America,
such that myxo would have a much harder time spreading.  Which could suggest,
for example, that Myxo spread is more dependent on climate here than it
is there.

I've not heard of myxo being around here.  But have personally seen rabbits
dead of myxo in Britain.

Most of Canada has large quantities of mosquitoes at various times of the year.
Then there's blackflies...  Right up well past the Arctic circle and are
often *much* worse than mosquitoes.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Ban Gas Weedeaters
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:45:13 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> 
> Did you know the EPA just came out with a report.....running a typical
> gas weedeater for 2 hours produces the same pollution as running
> a car.....for 3000 miles!!!!
> think about it...then get an electric one.
> 

Mellow out (you're in California, remember?).  Ever heard of the Pareto
principle?  

The pollution from weed-eaters compared to the total from all other 
sources isn't worth considering.  Do something about the major producers 
and you'll have done something significant.

John
From: system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Bill's Many Messages
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 23:01:38 PDT
Organization: The Generation Gap

Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London) writes:

> About the arctic greenhouse: I was thinking about the possibility of
> building a geodesic dome greenhouse with small facets made of modules of 
> some tough polycarbonate-like plastic with a high light transmission
> factor with air or gas-filled cores and shaped as Fresnel lenses. This would
> allow for concentration of heat and light that could be stored. :-)

Geodesic domes have been tried in the Arctic, with little success. My
understanding is that the great number of joints makes them virtually
impossible to seal against the wind. Once you get the thing sealed, a piling
rases an inch and you go through the whole process again. Or simple thermal
cycle (expansion-contraction) gets you (since often domes are built with
metal frames). We have a heck of a time sealing things since there are very
few sealant substances which stay flexible in the arctic cold.

So the problem is that you end up with a lot of "crackage", which translates
into large amounts of heat loss.

Very few domes have been built hereabouts, though, so I am sure that some
refinement of technique is possible.

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      ------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dan@eye.com (Dan Loewus)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: LA on the Tundra
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:45:11 GMT
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY

In article <TmVDPB5w164w@coldbox.cojones.com> system@coldbox.cojones.com (Bryan Lockwood) writes:
>clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>
>Not to mention the fact that we who live here don't particularly *want* an LA
>on the tundra. Our reasons for coming here are varied, but we stay because
>the population is still low enough that we don't have to lock our doors.
>

I know, why not scrap off LA and build an environment dome there.  

Sorry for the interuption, I had to say it.
-- 
"A typical half brick half wood New York house in a typical New York
 suburb with ginkgo trees scattered conservatively about."

 DL
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: LA on the Tundra
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:36:10 GMT

In <1992Aug10.035131.4276@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:


>Please read message 4387 to allow a continuation of this proposal.
>Northern land, i.e., around the arctic circle and Alaska in general
>is basically very few people and lots of cold cold tundra.
ok now one more time.
this is your brain.
this is your brain on drugs.
this is someones backyard. even if it looks empty to you it ain't.

>So here is the plan...build those giant green houses like that one
>in Arizona.....and create an inside atmosphere...climate if you will
>that exactly duplicates a beach in Southern California.
why???

>Sound impossible?
nothing is. thats why it scary.

>Not at all.  Many NASA research studies already support this.  They
>are called CELSS  or controlled environmental ..... systems.  Much
>of the research was performed with the idea of life aboard a space
>station or lunar base...but the same principles can easily be applied
>on the tundra.  Windpower is abundant.
>So is the tremendous potential energy locked in those massive root systems
>in the tundra itself, containing starch which would be biochemically
>cultured to produce biogas products which in turn would be burned turning
uh didn't this thread start with the gunge that comes from string trimmers?
and now you propose to burn the artic tundra???????????
just where do you propose to stop???????

>electrical generating systems, creating ample power.
 i *know* where i can find all kinds of wind power!

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 14:37:47 EDT
From: Jeff Brooks <JEFF@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: MTD Chipper/shredder?

I'm looking at chipper/shredders in the 5 hp range (we have 2.5 acres
of overgrown brush to clear) and the local Lowe's has one from a
firm named MTD with a 5 hp Briggs & Stratton engine; it looks more
or less comparable in size to a Troybilt Tomahawk, which is way out
of our price range :-(  (The MTD chipper used to list at $600 or so,
and is on sale for $400).  Does anyone have any comments about the
firm or the machinery?

Thanks in advance!

   Jeffrey A. Brooks                  (304) 293-5192
   IBM Systems Group                  jeff@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
   West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing
   Morgantown, West Virginia  26505

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Subject: Re: Myxomatosis
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:05:07 GMT

rim@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Bob McKay) writes:

>The main limiting factor is the presence of suitable insect vectors. In most
>of Australia, mosquitoes do the work quite effectively, but not in some of the
>coldest dryest areas, and hence, there is a fair bit of research work going 
>into alternative vectors such as various species of rabbit fleas. (Oh, if
>you're wondering why I'm talking about myxomatosis from the perspective of 
>efficient spread, you've never seen photographs of a serious rabbit plague).

Good point.  In winter the rabbit fleas keep warm in the burrows with the
rabbits, and spread the disease within a warren.  Mosquitoes spread the
disease between warrens.  I recall reading that the NW USA/SW Canada area
has some fairly large and muscular mosquitoes and other bities.

Geoff Miller  (ghm@adfa.oz.au)
From: venable@faculty.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu (Wallace Venable)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Ban Gas Weedeaters
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:34:56 GMT
Organization: WVU College of Engineering

In article <1992Aug11.195454.6194@seanews.akita.com> finneyk@seanews.akita.com (Ken Finney) writes:

>I would hazard a guess that the Kuwait oil fires put A LOT more
>unburned hydrocarbons in the air than all the weedeaters ever will.

	Yes, but the EPA can't harrass Iraq as easily as weedeater owners.
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Ban Gas *
Keywords: weedeaters, chainsaws and tractors oh my
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:39:51 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

>Windpower was going great until gas was available cheaply in the early
>part of the century.

Windpowered weedeaters, yes that's the ticket, no not powerful
enough, hmmm, OK I've got it, NUCLEAR powered weedeaters, yeah,
that's it :-)  I read in a brochure once that nuclear energy was
safe and non-polluting, perfect.  Well I suppose that throwing
the old power plants away poses some problems, but surely we could
could just dump them on the bottom of the ocean or bury them in
some developing nation.  And even if we solve the weedwacker problem,
what about tractors and chainsaws?

hmmm, when I was younger and had more energy, I managed fruit tree
cultivation on .75 acre (out of 18) entirely by hand tools.  This
was taking all weekend and one night/week.  So if I didn't work I
should be able to farm about three acres :-(

And then there are pesticides and fertilizer runoff, really we should
ban farms (at least small family family owned ones).

Of course if  more families had 24 acres (we've expanded now that we have
POWER tools), and grew a significant amount of their produce, pollution
and what might not be such an issue.

I've tried.  I have recycled for over a decade.  I drive a geo metro,
I rarely eat meat, I have lots of oxegen producing trees, I do lots
of things the old timey way, whenever I canoe I pick up the trash out
of the river, but I'm getting tired of trying to be green or whatever
they call it these days.  You can take gideon, my weedwacker, when you
pry it from my whitefingered hands. :-)

===================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.rural