From: phs179b@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Dien Rice)
Subject: Re: Monitored by islam (repost)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, Monash University, Australia
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:16:26 GMT

In article <jon.taylor.58.723926261@uuserv.cc.utah.edu>, jon.taylor@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (JON M. TAYLOR) writes:
> In article <1992Dec9.080120.28144@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:
>>From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
>>Subject: Re: Monitored by islam (repost)
>>Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1992 08:01:20 GMT
>>In <1992Dec7.103757.15944@news.cs.brandeis.edu> iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ivan Derzhanski) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Dec7.042438.1678@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:
>>>>In <1992Nov25.165131.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> phys224@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
>>>>>the islamic people are always going on about how great their god is,
>>>>>how merciful he is,...yet threaten us,pronounce death sentences on innocent
>>>>>people...
>>>>
>>>>The atheists are always going on about how logical and rational their
>>>>faith is...
>>
>>>Their faith?!  The faith of atheists?!
>>
>>>When will the theist morons understand the simple fact that there is
>>>no such thing as an atheist faith, logical and rational or otherwise?
>>
>>To be an atheist you require a positive _belief_ that God *does not*
>>exist.  Don't tell me you don't even understand this at this elementary
>>level.
>>
>>Luckily not all atheists are as thick as you.
> 
> 	AHEM.  I'm an Atheist, and I don't believe in stong atheism (i.e. 
> saying that there IS NOT a god, rather than saying that it's EXTRMELY 
> unlikely that there is one).  I imagine that few would take the position of 
> strong atheism.  Luckily, most atheists are not as thick as most fanatical 
> muslims.

Dictionary definition: 

Atheism, n.  The doctrine or belief that there is no God or that the assertion
of his existence is meaningless.

By the way, I have NEVER made a blanket negative statement about atheists the
way you have above about Muslims.  You are the equivalent of a racist, Jon.  In
fact, what I said about atheists above was complimentary.  Read
what you're responding to before you respond.  Yeah, I know how radical this
idea is.  <= <with a note of sarcasm>

>>>>yet they threaten religious persons, pronounce death
>>>>sentences on innocent people (as in the old communist world)....
>>
>>>The death sentences pronounced on innocent people in the old
>>>"communist" world have nothing to do with atheism.  Get it?
>>
>>They do for one type of atheism.
> 
> 	There is only one type of atheism.  If the communists executed 
> people, it was for political reasons.  I'm SURE I could dig up a LOT of 
> references to religiously-backed genocide WRT islam.

If communism was NOT atheist, do you think they would be oppressive to
religious people??????

As for your assertion of religiously-backed genocide WRT islam, I think that
your understanding of Islamic history is clearly weak.  While Islamic history
is most certainly not perfect, WRT how it treats the adherents of other
religions Islam has one of the best records.  Want a reference?  Read "The
Preaching of Islam," by T. W. Arnold.

>>>>Do you like my generalizations?  It's EVERY BIT as valid as the one made
>>>>above. 
>>
>>>Nonsense.
>>
>>>>I.e. both are invalid generalizations, as they generalize the
>>>>behaviour of a majority from the actions of an unrepresentational
>>>>minority.
>>
>>>It is a question of behaviour based on certain views.  There are no
>>>views that all atheists share, therefore atheism _qua_ atheism can't
>>>trigger any form of behaviour.  Islam on the other hand can.
>>
>>There are many views in Islam particular to a specific group of Muslims.  Most
>>non-Muslims do not understand this, like yourself and the original
>>poster.  The comparison holds, and if you understood Islam more then
>>you would see this.
>>
>> Fred Rice
>> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   
>
> 	Mr Rice, we have better things to do on this group than be told 
> constantly that we are a bunch of ignorant know-nothings.  

Did I say this?  Show me where I said this!  

Next time, READ WHAT YOU ARE RESPONDING TO, before you put words in my mouth. 
I have not made any broad generalizations of atheists, and I have not made any
general unfavourable remarks about atheists.  In fact, I have a number of
friends who happen to be atheists, whose views I respect.  However,
periodically in alt.atheism (as well as some other groups), Muslims AS A WHOLE
are slandered by people who, it is usually found, know practically nothing
about Islam.  Their slanders have no basis.  My recent postings on alt.atheism
have been in reaction to such a slander against all Muslims.  I take any
unjustified attack on ALL MUSLIMS as a personal attack upon myself.

(When I say most non-Muslims do not fully understand about Islam, I speak from
my personal experience in dealing with people.  It is not an insult at all, as
to fully understand Islam, and have some appreciation of the various ways it
manifests itself in the world community within hundreds of cultures, takes a 
lot of work.)

Fred Rice