HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets

Has anyone out there thought about the possible usages of the Aerotech 32mm
RMS glider motor/reloads in rockets?

Looking at the thrust curves of the 32mm reloads, it might be interesting to
use 2 or more of these special purpose (no delay/ejection capability) motors
in a cluster around a standard, central (read: ejection capable) motor.

For example: putting a couple of F23W Skywriter reloads in strap-ons (ala
Titan 3C) or internal in a larger diameter airframe would give you an 
additional 22 lbs take-off boost followed by 15 seconds of heavy-duty
skywriting smoke; just the thing to help you track that really high-flying
bird!

Or, you could load the boosters with the G12T reload for a full 8 second
burn (albeit, low thrust). On this one, the core motor would also need to
have a long burn or be available with a VERY long delay (over 10-12 seconds).

You may have noticed that you don't see the 32mm RMS motor listed separately
by distributors; for now it's only available in the Phoenix RC Glider kit.
Seems feasible to be able to procure these thru the "service/replacement"
pipeline, but I have no idea how much they might charge for it. Plus, one
has to address the fact that no one (that I've found) makes a 32mm ID motor
or body tube.

Bo Viger
Tripoli #1864
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: What do I need to get something into orbit?
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:52:58 GMT

In article <5615@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>Um, Trip was talking about supersonic model rocketry, not orbital model 
>rocketry.  I mean, how are you going to get up there to examine the paint?!

Sorry, my mistake!!! I had suggested in an earlier post that Supersonic
rocketry was a more realistic goal. As soon as I saw my post, I realized
what I did wrong. Until now, nobody had said anything, so I thought I might
get away with it, but . . . . :-)

Yes, indeed, Trip was talking about Supersonic Model Rocketry.
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Where did my rocket go??
Keywords: Tracking
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:12:25 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <5619@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>
>3) They didn't even show it at NARAM, though they DID demo two *Estes* G 
>   composite engines.  (Bad sign for the Transroc...)
>-- 

What about the "Estes" G motors?  Any opinions/facts?  Is Estes "making"
and/or going to be "making" E and F motors?  How about a little more
info?

Thanks 
Bob

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert B. Sisk  PhD			Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
NAR #53448				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
TRIPOLI #1583                           CIS:      71501.1651@CompuServe.COM
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: coryc@sequent.com (Cory Carpenter)
Subject: Second request for motor dimensions
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:03:00 GMT

I asked about this earlier, but the question was buried among other
text, so I'll try again:

Can someone please send me the dimensions of HPR motors?  I've since
heard that diameters are 28mm and 34mm.  True?  

I also need to know about the lengths.  Do they vary with class?  (i.e.:
Would a "J" be longer than an "I"?)  If lengths are standardized, what
are the standards?

I need to build a motor mount, and I have absolutely no reference
material.  Suggestions on what to use for motor-mount tubes (or what to
use for correct-diameter forms if I decide to roll my own from 'glass), 
are also welcome.

Any assistance would be appreciated!

-coryc

-- 
|    >> Disclaimer: I speak for Sequent only in our hardware manuals <<       |
|Cory R. Carpenter, Tech Writer |"I wish that I could go where no man has gone|
|Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. | before, but I'll probably stay in Aurora."  |
|    coryc@sequent.com          |              --Garth Algar, "Wayne's World" |
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: New AmSpam Editor?
Date: 22 Aug 92 20:58:59 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Aug21.201857.28745@med.umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong) writes:
>In article <ceZDYJq00WB2Mqh4ca@andrew.cmu.edu> Lawrence Curcio
><lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>It was made clear that you give up rights on everything you
>>send. That is true of no other magazine that I know of. There is no
>>offer of SASE returns in AMSPAM. 
>>
>
>Peter Alway has purposely NOT submitted articles to AMSPAM because of the
>copyright situation.  

I suspect that this is going to change soon. I had a nice long talk
with Steve Weaver, the new editor, who seems *very* eager to change
the way AmSpam treats its contributors. 

First off, he returns calls! I had originally left a message on his
answering machine (something Larry never had) and he returned the call
2 hours later!  Second, he was very clear that he needs writers and
contributors. Larry essentially left him with nothing but an "audios"
when he left. I specifically asked him about my Space Plane and E-Mail
articles which he didn't have, but said they'd fit perfectly in this
issue. I genned up a mildly re-edited version of both of those and 
expressed mailed them to him along with some NARAM Astrocam photos
and a couple of ground shots (C.D., I hope *you* guys don't have
copyright restrictions :-).

One thing that changed right away was that he said I could include a 
SASE to return my NARAM photos (I don't care about the articles).

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||               "Do or not do. There is no try." - Yoda                   ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: Astrocam
Keywords: astrocam
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:38:23 GMT

In article <BszLnn.MC3@andy.bgsu.edu>, jkonecn@andy.bgsu.edu (Joe Konecny) writes:
|> 
|> Estes doesn't appear to make the Astrocam anymore and I would like one.  
|> I've heard that the pictures are low quality but I need to start somewhere.
|> Does anyone have one (in good condition) that they want to sell?  The Astro-
|> cam wasn't in Estes cat. but they did make reference to it saying you could 
|> use it as a payload.  How about a telephone number for Estes?
|> 

The Astrocam is no longer made/sold by Estes.  You can still find them in 
some craft/hobby stores.  I've seen about 6 still on the shelves at the 
4 stores I hit regularly.  They cost a little under $40.

The Estes telephone number is:

   (800) 525-7561

|>  Also, has anyone tried out that new RC controlled rocket glider?  It says it
|> cost $75, does that include the controller?  Hopefully this kit is complete
|> for that price.

That price does not include any of the R/C gear.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR   13559
TRA    1785
============================================================================
Organization: Doctoral student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:09:25 -0400 
From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New AmSpam Editor?

There was a clarification of AMSPAM policy on submissions a couple of
years back. It was made clear that you give up rights on everything you
send. That is true of no other magazine that I know of. There is no
offer of SASE returns in AMSPAM. Basically, if you submit it there, you
can submit it nowhere else. If that were true of other magazines, witers
could not make a living. 

I would call these bugs/features of AMSPAM serious. Sorry.

-Larry
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Estes composites (was Where did my rocket go??)
Keywords: Tracking
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:07:46 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Aug18.151225.2847@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:
>
>What about the "Estes" G motors?  Any opinions/facts?  Is Estes "making"
>and/or going to be "making" E and F motors?  How about a little more
>info?

According to Mike Hellmund, Estes is going to continue making all 
of their motors (ahem) right there on the Penrose site. He wasn't clear
(and I didn't press him) as to whether that meant a new production
facility for the composites. I can't imagine otherwise, since the
manufacturing process for composites is quite a bit different than
for black powder.

He says to look for introduction around February of next year.

Gee, I wonder what's going to happen to the "Mighty `D' Engine" slogan :-)

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||               "Do or not do. There is no try." - Yoda                   ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
Subject: Re: Rockets on Radar
Summary: You need *half* wave antennas.
Organization: Ford Motor Company Scientific Research Labs, Dearborn, MI
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:10:58 GMT

In article <547@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>If you want to track one with radar, wrap the body in aluminum foil or
>some aluminum coated mylar. You could even put the foil on the inside
>since, as Chris points out, the body tube is pretty transparent to RF.

That wouldn't help much if you were tracking from underneath;
the cross-section as seen from below would be very small.

>If you *really* want to be seen on radar, find out what frequency the
>unit is and glue some strips of chaff (essentially just thin strips 
>of aluminum foil or aluminum coated fiberglass that are cut to the 
>1/4 wave size of the radar frequency) to the outside. It'll ring like
>a bell! (electromagnetically speaking :-)

That's 1/2 wave, not 1/4 wave.  A 1/4 wave antenna isn't complete
without a ground plane, which makes it look like half of a 1/2-wave
dipole.  At 1/4 wave, isolated conductors start getting too small
to reflect very well.

At 2.45 GHz (the frequency used by X-band police radars), the
wavelength is about 12 centimeters.  A half-wave is about 6 cm,
or roughly 2.4 inches.  If you stick 2.4 inch bits of foil to
the body tube *and fins*, you should be able to track the rocket
nicely regardless of its orientation using an X-band radar.

My favorite scheme for velocity measurement involves a dipole
with a diode in it, to create harmonics.  The rocket can be
illuminated with one antenna, and the doppler shift of the
re-radiated harmonics can be used to measure its radial speed.
Measuring distance would be a bit more difficult, but doable.

>- Jack (I used to make chaff dispensers for a living)

Russ (I had to pass tests on this stuff for my ham license and BS.)
-- 
Russ Cage                  wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (until 8/28/92)
            russ%rsi.uucp@destroyer.rs.itd.umich.edu (until whenever)
  *  When Ford pays me for my opinions, THEN they can call them theirs. *
                           _Bad_ cop.  No donut.
From: tim@nebula.key.amdahl.com (Tim Nicholls)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Tripoli trashes magazine!!!
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:23:34 GMT
Reply-To: tim@nebula.key.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl


	I was at the Tripoli general membership meeting held at the community
center in Gerlack at LDRS XI this passed weekend. The Tripoli board voted on
Sunday August 16 to "get out of the magazine business". Bruce is now taking the
magazine private and Tripoli will have no control of the contents. The name of
the magazine will more then likely be changed to "Rocket", Bruce had some sample
covers printed up. Bruce as offered to still support Tripoli's interest free of
charge. Tripoli's membership fees will be reduced and will only suggest that we
purchase "Rocket".




Tim Nicholls
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...
Date: 12 Aug 92 04:09:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design

In article <1992Aug7.110503.15317@med.umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong) writes:
>The Arcas is packed into the launcher with styrofoam panels to keep it
>centered.  These 'blow' off as soon as it leaves the tube.  The 'zero length'
>launcher used for sounding rockets relys on the _high_ acceleration delivered
>by the surplus military boosters to get the rocket fins 'flying' really fast.

This is really neat, it sounds like a sort of reverse piston launcher where
the piston is the styrofoam + the rocket and the barrel stays put ....

>The only model rocket I've seen that can accelerate anything like a NIKE-xxx
>is a 'mosquito' and it isn't even close.

I saw someone fly an ISP G300 at BlackRock last month .... this puppy gives
up most of it's thrust in about 1/2 sec. it flew like nothing I've ever seen,
just sort of evaorated from the launchpad, none of these leisurely climbs
into the sky ....

	Paul

-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P

	90's literacy - "Um, Curly, Moe, and ... no wait let
			 me guess .... oh I remember - Dan"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: Next NARAM (1993)
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:49:26 GMT

In article <542@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.202149.1178@intelhf.hf.intel.com>
george@hfglobe.intel.com (George Rachor) writes:
>>Has the location been announced yet?
>
>Somewhere in Maryland. I'm sure as the principals from the just-concluded
>NARAM filter back to their keyboards, we'll have a more definitive post.
>
>- Jack

I don't think this location (bid) has be accepted and confirmed yet.

J

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu
Subject: Scale Model Rocketry (2nd Edition)
Organization: U of M Hospitals
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:59:01 GMT

HUVARS' monthly meeting was last night and it is now official.  Peter Alway has
set a personal goal of NARAM-34 to have the second edition of his scale
reference finished.  Peter just got back from several days of research in
Washington and had the working copy of the book (it fills a 3-4" binder) with
him.  

The first book has really open doors, demonstrating that he is serious about
publishing the information he is gathering.  The Smithsonian let him in to the
lobby of the national rocket archives (as Peter calls NASM) so that he could
take measurements of some of the rockets on display.  Also lots of people have
been sending Peter information filling in holes that he had had to interpert
from photos.  As a result the second edition will have a lot of corrections
(actually additional data) to the rounds in the first edition.

The second edition also has an expanded scope.  It'll have every thing from
turn of the century camera rockets to Pegasus and the shuttle, US and
international sounding rocket to heavy lift boosters.

Peter's date is going to be largely dependent on the job market for physicists.
 Right now he is unemployed and has time to work on the book.  If he gets a job
soon, the book will likely slip into 1994 - if later, it could be done sooner.

- Roger
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NCR info wanted
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:42:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug6.030734.17637@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:
> I have read several of their reports.  Some of them are simple others
> are advanced (perhaps I should say that they seem well rounded).  I
> have always wanted a set but just can't seem to spend my money on them.
> Guess I buy too many motors! :-).

Well, take advantage of the special NARTS offer, then!  They're selling 
the NCR TR's at a discount to NAR members.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: tstark@netcom.com (Timothy Stark)
Subject: Re: Astrocam
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 18:17:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: astrocam

jkonecn@andy.bgsu.edu (Joe Konecny) writes:


> Also, has anyone tried out that new RC controlled rocket glider?  It says it
>cost $75, does that include the controller?  Hopefully this kit is complete
>for that price.

No, it does not include the controller but you have buy the radio system.
It should be glider-type servos (micro servos). For more information, you
call call Estes to find out more information. Good Luck!

Or you can call Tower Hobbies or Hobby Shack to find out more information for
radio system (72 Mhz radio).

Astrocam: Hmm, Estes will not make astrocam anymore due to market
decision. I suppose that Estes should sell Astrocam continuously because
many modelers still looking for it include me! I am looking for
that R/C aircraft carrying 35mm/Video camera for aerophotography.

-- Tim Stark

-- 
Timothy Stark               Internet: tstark@netcom.com
837 North Van Dorn St       GENIE: T.STARK1
Alexandria, Va. 22304-2723  TDD Phone Number: (703) 212-9731
"Washington, DC is the most deaf population!! -- Gallaudet University"
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:22:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Edmund Hack) writes:
: I am looking at building my own ignition system for both Model Rocket
: and HPR use.  I have plans from a local Tripoli member for a relay-based
: system.  The basic concept for those who haven't seen one is to use a
: two part system.  A hand controller is used to close a relay located at
: the launch pad, which is connected to a motorcycle battery at the pad.
: This allows one to be a good distance from the pad at launch time (up to
: 300 feet) without the resistive losses killing the launch current.

Be very careful with this approach. I was at a high power launch where
a rocket was accidentally launched when the jack on the controller shorted.

I would never use a controller that simply closed a relay at the pad. I
would always have the battery power for the relay in the controller
itself. That way, if the controller cable is shorted, you do not get
an unexpected ignition.

Bill
Organization: Doctoral student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:49:30 -0400 
From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Kevlar rockets (was: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)

In my younger, foolish days, I used to roll fibergalss *motor* tubes. I
also used fibergalss in model airplane construction. There was one
fundamental difficulty in tube construction that didn't complicate model
airplanes: what to do with the edge of the glass cloth. 

Glass cloth is loosely woven, and it seemed impossible to avoid
protruding glass fibers from a cut edge. I would generally try to
arrange things so that a woven edge was on the outside, but even this
tended to be a little thicker than the rest of the cloth. Sanding helped
somewhat. I'd be interested to know how others get around this for body
tubes, where smoothness is vitally important.

It's worth mentioning that glass cloth has a grain. In body tubes (and
motor tubes, for that matter), this grain should run lengthwise along
the tube for maximum strength. You can see this grain if you look
closely at the cloth. There is also a destructive test for it. Take a
tube and try to break it in two. If is snaps smartly, your glass cloth
grain was going in the wrong direction. :)

Regards,
-Larry
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Subject: Re: Looking for information on OSC/Pegasus
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:34:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.023727.7790@panix.com> reynolds@panix.com (Brian Reynolds) writes:
>In article <1992Aug8.164031.18834@panix.com> reynolds@panix.com (Brian
>Reynolds) writes:
>>I would like to build a model of the OSC/Pegasus, but I have no scale
>>information.  
>
>Either I lead a charmed life, or I'm getting uncannily good at
>predicting the editorial content of American Space Modeling.  :) The
>latest issue has an article on Pegasus with some dimensions (enough to
>make some eyeball measurements and size up a sport scale model), and a
>couple of good B/W photos.  The article mentions NASA Ames-Dryden
>Flight Research Facility (where the flights originate from), and
>Oribital Sciences Corp., and Hercules Aerospace as major developers.

Ames-Dryden is where the first two launches were based out of, as OSC
used the NASA B-52 that did the X-15 drops.  Range control was based at
Vandenburg.  However, I doubt that Dryden has much info on the Pegasus,
as it was mainly as DARPA/OSC project.  By the way, North Coast has a
Pegasus kit in the new catalog, for E+ engines.  I think it retails for
$49.95.

-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "No the game never ends when your whole
|       world depends on the turn of a friendly card"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Estes composites (was Where did my rocket go??)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:38:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.173533.10776@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> hughes@gary.enet.dec.com (Gary Hughes - VMS Development) writes:


>I have NO idea if Estes is planning anything like this. I have often suspected
>that the reason some of the eastern European countries use picrate based
>propellants is because some of those can be compression loaded like BP (and
>they are probably used for military pyro and therefore available).


Just an aside...

If the Eastern Europeans bring their own motors how does one check
to see whether they conform to impulse class limits for competition? 
Or is there simply a weight rule for the FAI classes? There isn't a 
Russian equivalent of Estes is there? Do the competitors build their
own motors?

I wonder if they static test a random sampling of everyones' motors
to make sure they aren't cheating...





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !