HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: MEQ #9: Begin on Haifa, 1948.
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:51:36 GMT
Organization: Australian National University

davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:

>>In article <...> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>>>
>>>      MEQ #9.  Begin gives a rather different Haifa story.
>>>
>>>   The legend of Dir Yassin helped us in particular in the saving of
>>>   Tiberias and the conquest of Haifa.  The British commander at Haifa
>>>   announced the evacuation of his forces at the end of April.  The
>>>   Haganah knew the date and mobilized its forces for the decisive clash.
>>>   At the request of the Haganah North Regional Commander Irgun units,
>>>   commanded by Amiel, also went into action, and were ordered to capture
>>>   a fortified enemy building dominating Hehalutz Street, the main artery
>>>   of Hadar Harcarmel.  Our men launched a sudden, surprise attack--and the
>>>   building was captured.  Our men were loudly cheered by the inhabitants
>>>   of Hadar Harcarmel.  They then went on to Wadi Nisnas, captured the
>>>   whole Quarter and continued to advance towards the purely Arab Quarter.
>>>   Meanwhile the Haganah was carrying out successful attacks on other
>>>   fronts in Haifa.  All the Jewish forces proceeded to advance through
>>>   Haifa like a knife through butter.  The Arabs began fleeing in panic,
>>>   shouting: "Dir Yassin!"
>>>
>>>   Source: Menachem Begin, The Revolt (W.A. Allen, 1951) page 165.
>>>   Elsewhere (page 337) Begin speaks of Irgun attacks on Haifa as
>>>   early as December 11, 1947--only 12 days after the UN partition vote.
>>>   It is interesting to compare this Irgun version to the "official"
>>>   Israeli version which says the Arabs of Haifa left despite attempts
>>>   to get them to stay.  As usual, both versions contain some truth.

>This Quote is irrelevant to the question of Haifa refugees.
>Nobody contested the point that the Jews fought to conquer the city.
>Nowhere in Begin's account I see intent to expell the Arabs. 

It is obvious from his book that he is proud of it.

>                                                              It indeed
>validated the point that the Arabs feared for their skins and ran away.

This sentence is a direct contradiction of your first sentence.

>There is no hint to the desire to repeat Dir Yassin in Haifa from Begin
>or the Hagana.

Begin always denied there was a massacre at Dir Yassin, so this 
not surprising.  In fact there was no DY-scale massacre at Haifa,
but it would be naive to assume that the Irgun had changed their
spots in a couple of weeks.  If I was an Arab resident of Haifa
at the time, there's no way I would have entrusted my family to
such an assumption.

>David.

Brendan.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Peacekeeper wounded during Israeli shelling, UNIFIL reports
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:27:18 GMT


Reposted from soc.culture.lebanon ( thanks to Ayman I. Kayssi) :
> [ Article crossposted without permission ]
> [ Author was UPI ]
> [ Posted on Mon, 12 Oct 92 6:11:39 PDT ]
> 
> 	TYRE, Lebanon (UPI) -- A United Nations peacekeeper was wounded during
> Sunday's Israeli shelling on Shiite villages in southern Lebanon, a
> spokesman of the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) said Monday.
> 	Timor Goksel said the U.N. soldier from the Nepalese battalion was
> injured in both legs when shells fell close to a UNIFIL position near
> the villages of Kafra and Yater, east of the southern port city of Tyre.
> 	The injured peacekeeper, whose name was not disclosed, was
> transported to UNIFIL headquarters in the border town of Naqoura, Goksel
> said.
> 	He was among seven people who were wounded during heavy Israeli
> shelling on a number of Shiite villages Sunday. The bombardment was in
> retaliation for attacks by Muslim guerrillas on pro-Israeli forces at
> the edge of Israel's self-declared security zone that wounded six South
> Lebanon Army militiamen.
> 	Last month, an Irish peacekeeper was killed and another was wounded
> when guerrillas of the pro-Iranian Hezbollah opened fire on a checkpoint
> in the area of Jmeijmeh.
> 	Some 188 peacekeepers have been killed since the 5,600-member force
> was deployed in southern Lebanon in 1978. The force is made up of
> contingents from Nepal, France, Fiji, Norway, Italy, Poland, Ireland,
> Ghana and Finland. It was recently joined by Polish and Russian
> peacekeepers.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Middle East International magazine
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date: 12 Oct 92 03:56:36 GMT

Does anybody here have any impressions of this British magazine?
I have read it a few times and to me it seems to be rather
anti-Israel.

--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:05:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.232032.16824@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
|> >  
|> > What is your problem now?. Is this too much for your mind, at least they
|> > recognise their right for that day. The universities even go out of their
|> > way not to schedule exams on the Sabath.
|> > 
|> > It appears to me that my original response was not consumed easily by Mr. Livni
|> > since no myths or propaganda can be generated out of it.
|> > 
|> > A.Faris
|> 
|> Here's Mr. Backwards demanding that we give him a Nobel Prize for
|> being able to add 1 + 1, because in his home town, no on else could
|> figure it out.  I won't award you a prize for acting with the decency
|> that would be commonplace in more civilized countries so don't bother
|> asking for it.
|> 
|> -- 
|> Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
|> American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
|> My opinions only - employer has no opinions.

Mr. Livni you have just proven yourself to be nothing but a flaming asshole
who no one should even bother to read your posts. For your information, I am
more civilised and honest than you will ever be. You have shown that you
cannot even handle the trueth and when confronted with the trueth, you simply
hide under that thick shell of yours and spew out all kinds of crap.

As for being backward, I prefer to be backward instead of being a LIAR like
you. Furthermore, My level of intelligence is something that will take you
centuries to accumulate, since you have shown that you cannot even debate
simple topics, rather you resort to sarcastic arguments that put people
down just because they are speaking the trueth.

A.Faris
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 13 Oct 1992 02:12:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) says:

>In article <1b785eINN7j1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>>
>>I don't know the numbers, but it's getting up close to a thousand Arabs
>>killed in clashes with Israeli soldiers, and nearly that many murdered by
>>their fellow Arabs.  Over the last couple of years, far more Arabs have
>>been murdered by other Arabs than have died in clashes with Israelis.
> 
>I believe Sandra Rayes posted these figures not too long ago.  It was
>from the Washington Report, and dated July 1992:
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>		LIVING UNDER ISRAELI OCCUPATION
>
>	The toll of human rights violations by Israeli forces since
>	Dec. 9, 1987:

Already, we see a clear indication that the figures given are likely to be
gross exaggerations.  To refer to "the toll of human rights violations"
clearly shows the bias of those both compiling and distributing the
figures.

>	TREE UPROOTINGS				      142,494

There's a term for things like this.  It's called chutzpah.  To complain
about alleged Israeli "tree uprootings," when a significant and telling
part of the so-called "non-violent" intifadah has been the destruction of
valuable forestland by arson (by people who claim to love the land!), is
the height of hypocracy.


>Source:  Palestine Human Rights Information Center, Jerusalem/
>	 Chicago.  Figures through April 30, 1992.

Sort of like depending on Jack the Ripper to compile statistics on police
brutality!
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:42:15 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Gideon, we are sorry to hear about the deaths of Amazya ben-hayim and
Rachel Weiss.

I don't want to continue counterposting from these tragedies on the
painful and humiliating deaths of other people, both Arab and Israeli
because it only brings further bitterness and bad feelings between
the posters.

The point of my questioning Alan Stein's sensitivity is because he
denies any link to Palestinian murders by undercover Israeli units
and laughs at anything that indeed proves this.

At least I acknowledge and respect the deaths of innocent people
rather than post articles which try to minimize the situation as
a whole.

Anisa
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:46:28 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <F9qksB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>It's nice to see Anisa quoting Mr. Dershowitz.  Next thing, you'll
>be observing Shabbat.  Oy veh...   :)

Phil, don't think that I was paying any compliment to Mr. Dershowitz
by quoting him - re-read the quote and you will see what I mean.

I saw him on CNN last night - the Larry King show.  He said that he
was 'born an activist' and he will 'die an activist'.  An activist
of whom?  The rich and powerful or of *real* justice?

Hmph.

Anisa
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 11 Oct 92 07:24:34 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1b8h11INNjnd@agate.berkeley.edu> kirjner@tucker.berkeley.edu (Carlos Kirjner) writes:
>
>I don't want to take part in the polemic about the respectability of
>different sources, but I must say that when I wrote the original article
>on the subject above I did ask (and haven't got any numbers yet) how
>many  Israelis (soldiers and civilians) had been killed during the
>Intifadah.  

My apologies to both you and Danny.  You did say:

>I would be interested in the total number of people dead, Palestinians
and Israelis (civilian and soldiers). It would be nice if the numbers
regarding the Palestinians were given in terms of Palestinian dead in
clashes with soldiers in the territories (or in Israel), or by other 
Palestinians. 

It seemed like the latter portion of your paragraph was the what you
were interested in the most. 

Anisa
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Why Arabs use the Nazi Swastika ?
Date: 16 Oct 92 10:50:04 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

1.
Shimon Hazadik was a high priest at the temple' He leieed at Yerushalayim
(Jerusalem) about 400 years before the temple was ruined by the Romans
and about 1000 years before Arabs arrive to the Land of Israel.
To the East of Jerusalem there is a site known as Shimon Hazadik Tomb.
 The cite is known as such for many centuries.
Jews used to gather there for all kinds of events, one pilgrim wrote
about a wedding that was held there, many wrote about praying in that
place.
My mother in-law told me that she remember that she and other kids used
to have a special fun-day during the 33 rd day after Passover. ( She as
well as her parents grandparents and so on was born at Jerusalem).
On 1876 the cite and the near by area was bought by Jews. In the Formal
document the cite is called AL-YAHUDIA  -"the Jewish (place) " in Arabic
and so the Arab call the place.
5 days ago Arab set the place on fire. a scroll of Tora,  bible books
and praying books were burned up.
The place was renewed during the last year  days.
on this last night it was covered by PLO anti Semite slogans and by
Nazis swastikas.
 The Nazi Swastika is a common symbol adopt by Arabs to express their
high aspirations as to Jews, it is on a special intensive use at the
Gaza strip.

2.
  Yesterday was a hot day.
  Its still a summer hear in our shiny Eretz Yisrael.
  Prazon is a farm in the borders of the Yizreael Valley
  It is located within the pre 67 borders About 10 km east of Afula ,
  The  in the field of Prazon needed watering.
  At 11 a.m. Yosef Avraham was watering his crauliflowers .
  He worked alone.
  2 Arabs walked in the fields saying they are looking for a job.
  Those Arabs found Yosef.
  They consider killing a Jew to be a positive action.
  So, they pushed their long knives into Yosef's body.
  Yosef objected their action and he struggled with them , but
  because of disturbing in blood supply to his brained he coudn't
  functioning well.
  Yosef is dead.


  (Note: avraham Kohen of the nearby Gadish farm that was shot by Arabs
   10 days ago is still alive).

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:20990 soc.culture.arabic:4214
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: July chronology
Date: 11 Oct 92 04:08:18 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver


	July chronology in Territories


13	Israeli troops surrounded al-Najah University in Nablus
	after student elections, claiming wanted activists were
	inside.  After a five-day siege, the 3,500 students and
	staff agreed to leave without being searched while six
	wanted men were deported for up to three years in Jordan.

	An Israeli undercover unit shot dead a Hamas activist in
	Gaza city during a demonstration.

14	An Israeli undercover unit shot dead a 27-year old
	Palestinian in Jaba near Jenin in the north of the
	West Bank.

23	Israeli troops shot dead a 'wanted' Palestinian near Jenin.
	Two other members of his Black Panther guerrilla group gave
	themselves up.  The Israelis claim to smashed the group in
	the Jenin area.

	Two members of the Palestinian negotiating team were refused
	permission to travel to Jordan by the Israeli authorities.

26	Israeli troops shot and killed a four-year old boy in Khan
	Yunis in the Gaza Strip.

27	An Israeli undercover unit shot dead a 17-year old Popular
	Front activist writing graffiti on a wall in Khan Yunis.


From MEI - 7 August 1992

Will post related material from August to October as it becomes
available.

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: MEQ #7: Israel and the Sinai, 1953
Keywords: Egypt / Sinai
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 12:33:31 PDT
Distribution: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Moon Macrosystems

Brendan, maybe the reason that the Egyptians don't try anything foolish
again is because they remember 1967 still.  Perhaps you're too young, or
perhaps (probably) you're still getting your information from leftist
insurgent sources (Yigal).

The facts, plain and simple, are that Egypt has a NON-AGGRESSION treaty
with Israel, and the Sinai as a DMZ is part of that treaty.

For the life of me I can't understand why Israel's enemies aren't coming
around at least a little, now that the Likud has been uprooted by Labor.
Now Hanan Ashtray is saying that "Rabin is just as bad as Shamir."

At least Israel has come forth with some gestures.  The only gestures
the Arabs have presented is to flip their birdie finger.

-Philip Stromer

"If there's one thing worse than a right-wing, chauvinist book-burner,
it's a left-wing feminist one."
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Keywords: Washington Report's (lack of) credibility
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 21:51:08 PDT
Distribution: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Moon Macrosystems

Anisa, you're quick to quote figures from The Washington Report, but
most readers are probably aware that The Washington Report is very
anti-Israel in its very nature.  Pete McCloskey is one of their
leaders, along with the chief editor, Richard Curtiss.

Some further quotes from your beloved Washington Report:

"We must confront Israel.  We have to face the fact that they may
become our enemy and be as great a threat to world peace as Saddam
Hussein." -- Pete McCloskey.

"Since the end of the Second World War, every major crisis in the 
region has been directly or indirectly connected to the question of
Palestine." -- Georgetown professor Hisham Sharabi.

With clowns like these running The Washington Report, keep quoting
them, Anisa.  It undermines your credibility on Middle East issues
even further.  You're dragging yourself down to the Elghani level.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:47:56 GMT

     Obviously Mr. Makowsky does not know anything about urban warfare, or he 
is just a cold blooded murderer.  For your information, soldiers do not go 
about
throwing grenades (or bombarding) any structure without checking that no
civilians are in there.  The exception is when they face armed resistance from
a particular structure then they may attack it without "ringing the bell".  And
ofcourse, this was not the case with the Zionist terrorist groups operating in
Palestine in 1948 (or even after that).

Wa Salam
-----------------
Khaled J Shammout
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Oink, Oink
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:34:09 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <3984@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.182346.2505342@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>
>>They are lies and fantasies because they hurt you deep where it
>>really hurts, and shows the shamefull acts and stands of 
>>many RICH GULF PIGS.
>
>Yeah ... :^)
>
>>I have seen nothing that is "lies and fantasies of Anisa".  All of
>>her words are full of honesty and eagerness to help the helpless
>>abroad.
>
>Shookran jazeelan ... :)
>
>Racism and Bigotry.  Rich Gulf Pigs.      Racism and Bigotry.
>Rich Gulf Pigs.      Racism and Bigotry.  Rich Gulf Pigs.
>Racism and Bigotry.  Rich Gulf Pigs.      Racism and Bigotry.
>Rich Gulf Pigs.      Racism and Bigotry.  Rich Gulf Pigs.
>
>>You know the number, why don't you say it instead of trying to hide
>>behind Anisa's lack of info to the exact outragious number.
>
>Because Anwar doesn't want to perpetuate the obvious stereotypes ...

Actually, because I kill Elghani's posts I didn't read it at all.

It's been a few weeks since this thread started.  I can't believe
it is continuing.  I also can't believe how hard you are trying to
drag me into this garbage.  Don't you people have anything better to
do?  

Take a lesson from Kuwaitis in your recent posting, who are 
discussing substantive matters around this election time regarding
the future of their country, voting rights, and the powers of 
the various branches of government, rather than counting Yasser
Arafat's nose hairs or whatever irrelevant crap.

-Mr.Piggie

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                FREE       Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu              THE       School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043     KUWAITI       Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739        POWS       Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 13:06:51 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Banished CPU

In article <1bh8deINN2a7@early-bird.think.com>, shaig@think.com (Shai Guday) writes:

        >First of all, the Mossad does not operate within Israel, so get your
        >facts straight before your post rubbish.

I know this.  But if I said the "IDF" or "Arab task force", you'd complain about
the Mossad anyway.  This saves me from having to read more of your lies.

        >As to their capture, one of my gripes with the system is that they
        >are not allowed to be confronted with the material against them
        >nor is their counsel given adequate time or facilities to prepare
        >their defence.

Can you say "Ron Arad"?  I *knew* you could.  Personally, I'm *GLAD* that the
Israelis do NOT use a U.S.-style Constitution right now.  They'd get taken ad-
vantage of by the Arabs, and by the leftist "intellectuals" such as Shai.

If you wanna talk about gripes with the system, which Arab country should we
start with?  Israel's system shines like a BRIGHT LIGHT compared to the legal
system in every Arab country.

              From me:
              Doesn't stopping the settlements in the territories count at all?
              How about their lifting of the ban on contact with the PLO?  What
              about allowing foreigners to represent the Palestinians in the
              peace negotiations?  These are all tangible, relevant steps
              toward peace that Israel has taken in the past few months.

        From Shai:
        Yes, these are steps that are tangible and go towards peace, the
        only hope I have is that they are not "too little, too late".

Well, well.  You admitted that Israel has taken STEPS TOWARD PEACE.  Now tell me
what steps the other sides have taken?  The Gulf Cooperation Council and Egypt ex-
cepted, since they're all ignoring the boycott, soon to publicly announce so.
Come to think of it...the hell with the rest.  If they wanna hate Israel and the
West and every "filthy capitalist pig" nation, let 'em live on dirt floors with no
running water, if that's what they really want.

--Philip Stromer--
(peewee@infoserv.com)

"If there's one thing worse than a right-wing chauvinist book burner,
 it's a left-wing feminist one."
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Date: 9 Oct 1992 23:13:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Sounds like what the Arab prisoners are demanding is a hotel and
country club.  Sounds good to me.

If I go out and throw stones and Molotov cocktails, and stab people in
the back, can I get a free vacation too?
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast