From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 20:28:41 GMT

In article <gdvktqC00WB2QxDG1v@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:
>   What I'm trying to point out is that I do not accept statistics
>either (a) based on a national average or (b) based on a small random
>sample which I am not a part of.  I'll concede that nationally, it
>can be shown that there is a correlation between fraternity membership
>and rape.  What I perceive this means is that there are a bunch of
>scummy greek systems / chapters out there building up the average,
>rather than all fraternities contributing to the degredation of women.
>If you want to base your judgement upon a sample size of your choosing
>and then instantiate it for everyone, that is your perogative.
>However, it is my opinion that the end result of the correlation is
>not "fraternities are bad," but simply that there are areas in which
>SOME fraternities need a lot of improvement, much like society in general.

Astonishing how you've drawn conclusions about studies you haven't even
read.  Who's prejudiced here?

At any rate, unless one can demonstrate the predictive factors which will show
which fraternities will mysteriously be the ones that rape so often that
they "drag" the average of all fraternities to three times the level
of the non-fraternity population, your argument is irrelevant to someone
trying to decide whether or not to keep a fraternity system.

If someone does identify these factors that separate the "good" fraternities
from the "bad" fraternities ("Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?") in
such a way that these factors can be isolated and solved for so that the
problem no longer exists, this is a perfectly satisfactory solution.

The factors identified by O'Sullivan to explain gang rape were 
(1) formalized associations of all men (2) in an elite group 
(3) living together in a (4) tightly-knit group (5) ages 16 to 24.
Which would imply that the solution is to (a) make fraternities co-ed,
(b) end the pledge period, or modify it to simply require X number of
hours of community service, and (c) open admission, subject either
to housing limitations resolved by lottery or the community-service
requirement in (b).   I find this to be a satisfactory solution.  It
would have the additional advantage of ending a great deal of the hazing.

>There are certain psychological factors that tend to be present in a
>lot of rapists.  Among these is that many are either consciously (in
>the case of forcible rape) or unconsciously (in the case of
>aquaintance rape) trying to force acceptance from their victim.  What
>this implies is that rapists tend to be lonely, and will thus have an
>inclination to join organizations in which their acceptance and
>membership are permanent.  Thus, the causal relationships you mention
>seem to be that the same psychological motivations for rape are also
>motivations to join a fraternity.

Well, that's a testable hypothesis, then.  If what you say is true, then
campuses without a fraternity system will have those same numbers of
lonely people.  If the fraternity has nothing to do with their propensity
to rape, then these campuses will have higher rape rates for non-fraternity
members than campuses with fraternities do.

I know of no evidence that this is true.  None.  I'll be happy to see it
if you present it.  (And even to the degree that it is true, that doesn't
defend fraternities, because, as Garrett-Gooding and Senter point out,
a great deal of the problem with fraternities is the mutual reinforcement
of the attitudes that lead to rape.  If you have a large proportion of
men with an inherent (though buried) propensity to rape, it hardly seems
an optimal strategy to organize institutions that make it easier for them
to act upon that propensity.  Note also how this second argument you
present contradicts the first argument, where you claim that it's just
"bad" fraternities that are creating the problem.  Yet, how is it that
all of these men who already had the propensity to rape are only channelled
into the "bad" fraternities, and manage to avoid the "good" fraternities?)
-- 
Ted Frank          + "If you close your eyes, they all taste the same."
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  			-- General Mills representative
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