From: jrusby@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Jim T. Rusby)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Subject: Re: riding the faders
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:32:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Aug26.163224.13710
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

In article <BtLI8M.Ax2@world.std.com> muller@world.std.com (James L Muller) writes:
>I just came back from performing at a bluegrass festival (things
>went just fine, thank you) where there was a problem or two with
>the sound re-inforcement system.  The guy working the board for
>the audience's mix kept riding the faders up and down, which
>frustrated the performers (and finally the organizers too).  The
>trouble with this is that bluegrass is rather full of in-and-out
>backup fills and dramatic instrumental entrances that the guy
>on the mixing console just can't anticipate.  

Most of my SR mix work has been either bluegrass or big band jazz. Just
about every bluegrass or folk artist made this request , indicating a
great deal of experience with (apparently)  uncooperative engineers.
Every engineer I know and respect try to honor this request.
Read on.


>during the set.  The question is, why do sound guys ride the
>faders like this, even when asked by both the performers and
>organizers to stop?

The fact is ....  Who knows?  None of us were there, so we shouldn't try
to defend the guy. There are a few situations where any engineer will "pot
down" regardless of the artists request. I will try to list them. Maybe
someone else can add to the list.
  1. A mic is on and apparently not being used. It hasn't been used for
this song and the engineer doesnt know that the fiddle player on the end
of the stage is going to run over and use it.  Since the signal from all
open mics accumulates into a possible feedback problem he pots it down.
  2. The engineer hears an imbalance the artists may not be able to hear,
because they are listening to a separate monitor mix. He could sit there
and dutifully follow the artists instructions, but he's wrong there too.
HOPEFULLY the engineer has a background in music to permit him or her to
make this judgement. I won't pay anyone who doesn't.
   
>mailing list that perhaps they are trained to do so for rock
>shows because it is safer to pull down unused mics and because
>electric players don't have as much subtle control over volume
>since they can tweak their on-guitar knobs but the mic-to-amp
>distances are fixed.  Some folks disagreed with me, and pointed
>out that it is far too common a problem for that.  (The guy at
>this festival had been hired from Peavey.)  Indeed it is a

  3. The engineer works for Peavey. 

Honestly, the rock vs. bluegrass inference is probably going to prompt one
or two flames.  Its sort of like us vs. them or artist vs. soundman.

I trust that you have performed enough to have observed a problem. What is
the average size festival you have participate in and where did they get
their engineers?  Did they hire Showco, Maryland Sound, Clair Bros. or did
they get an industry sponsor to donate gear and a salesman to run it?
I have mixed a lot of bluegrass, accompanied by little or no pay. Its just
not a high budget venue from a festival standpoint. There are exceptions ....

>far-too-common frustration at bluegrass shows that the sound
>guy doesn't seem to understand that the performers want the
>mics to be on all the time so they can move in and out at will.
>do it?  Some people tell me it's just a power trip.  Or maybe
>they just get bored and need something to do...


What some artists interpret as a "power trip" might be a soundmans attempt
to be responsible. Every time I work a folk or bluegrass show, at least
one audience member (usually a musician) will lean over and say "I don't
want to tell you your business, but the banjo is a little weak" - What
does the engineer do? Whatever seems right at the time. It sounds as
though the guy at the board was at bit too heavy handed though.

Our banjo playing piano technician contributes this:
Whats the difference between a banjo and an onion? People cry when cutting
up an onion.

Jim RUsby
UO School of Music
Eugene Oregon
jrusby@darkwing.uoregon.edu