HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:21:34 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Jul22.034556.21065@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>In <BrquMr.27J@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:

>>... a player with a good 
>>attitude and a player that works hard and enjoys playing makes the game more
>>fun for both himself, his team mates and the fans.  
>>In anything that anyone
>>does in life for any reason IF THEY ENJOY WHAT THEY ARE DOING THEY WILL BE 
>>BETTER AT DOING THAT.

>I don't really buy that.  There can be other motivations, 
>...  All other things being equal, maybe being happier will
>help performance.  But I'm not convinced, and all things are rarely equal.

>>...  Not many teams win if there
>>is no winning spirit and dedication to winning in the clubhouse.

>The problem is we have a chicken and egg problem.  Maybe the teams have
>a "winning spirit" because they're winning?  As Lance Smith has pointed
>out numerous times, the same friendly atmosphere which critics charged
>resulted in the Twins 1990 last place finish was also credited with helping
>them win the World Series last year.

>And we have plenty of teams that have won World Series that have clearly not
>had great atmospheres.  The 1977-78 Yankees are the best example - they
>hated each other, and some of them have indicated that they played to spite 
>each other - to prove that they were the best player there.


And the A's of the early 70's.  The two winningest managers over the
past 25 years or so have been Billy Martin and the aptly named
"Dick" Williams.  No happy clubhouses here!  But everywhere they
managed, they found a way to win.  Williams especially knows how
to get the most out of his players, even though they'd all like
to knife him with a rusty blade.

Of course, Steve Boros knows how to make the clubhouse atmosphere
nice.  Doesn't win, though.  Neither does "Happy" Jack McKeon.

It's more fun to play on a team that has a good spirit and
atmosphere, and in slow pitch softball, it's the only kind
of team to play on (in my opinion...).

However, I just can't buy the assertion that a player
who is fun in the clubhouse must be helping the team win.
Tim Flannery was and is a lot of fun, but the Padres were
much better off without him, since at the end of his career,
he was not helping on the field, and I just don't believe
that he made Gwynn hit better.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: pogo.Colorado.EDU!exby@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cap Companies
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:57:00 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant


Well I am searching for addresses or phone numbers for two
great baseball cap companies that specialize in authentic
wool replica hats from those days of yesteryear:

Cooperstown Ballcap Company

and Roman 
(which my label says is in Brockton, MA)

I have hats from these companies via misc stores, but would
like to contact them direct to get a complete catalog.
please, can anyone help?
thanks aTON if so.


.....................................
-=====-                        -=====-
  -=-   exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU   -=-
   -                              -
From: andy@sunbird.Central.Sun.COM (Andy Knipp Metro SE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cubs totally finished with Maddux?
Keywords: Listen to the money talk....
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:37:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunbird.central.sun.com

In article <Bs6847.D2F@news.cso.uiuc.edu> yl44729@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rick Lin ) writes:
>peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Peppler) writes:
>
>I think another reason that Maddux may end up being traded to the Yankees is
>that the Yankees have 4 pitching prospects in the minors.  If they are willing
>to give up 2 of them and throw in a couple more players, the Cubs should be
>willing to negotiate.

I would be surprised to see Maddux traded now.  It must be done by August
first (or other teams can muck the trade).  The Cubs look to be in the 
pennant race, albeit with a sub 500 record (barely).  


--
Andy Knipp  SE                |
Sun Microsystems              | The secret of success is sincerity,
Schaumburg, IL                | once you can fake that,  you have it made.
andy@sunbird.central.sun.com  |
From: kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Trendy Terms (was: Sexy Baseball Players and Fraternities!!)
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:01:28 GMT
Organization: Dominican Deities - Juan Guzman levitation branch

In article <4176@equinox.unr.edu> schnell@pyramid.unr.edu (Dan Schnell) writes:
>
>First, we had the postings about statistics, the term "stathead"
>was coined.
>
>Then, we started seeing posts about which player had the best
>behind, and the "buttheads" :) first appeared.
>
>Now, we have "fratheads".
>
>Maybe next:
>	- which team has the best head wear, "hatheads"

  How about which team has the best Canadian players, "hoseheads"? 

  Or which team has the largest number of sex crime offenders that also used
performance enhancing drugs at one point, "Steereoids"? 

-- 
Dave Kirsch                                                Jeff Kent for ROY 
kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu                        "Blue Jays all the way in '92"  
"Try new Fortenberry wine coolers, with a biting bitter taste" - Noel Steere
Slanguage dictionary: maynard - "to insult with disdain and contempt" 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Ojeda and Benzinger to Montreal RUMOR
Date: 24 Jul 1992 17:29:26 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

The Expos are interested in Bobby O and Todd B.
Bobby O will pitch Saturday against Montreal and
look for Todd B to get plenty of playing time this
weekend...perhaps at first base.  If he plays
first, you KNOW the Dodgers will be showcasing
him for Montreal.

Eric Davis will take a one year contract with the
Dodgers at reduced pay.  He really wants to stay
in LA if possible.  He will be a free agent at
the end of this year.  A one year contract
makes a lot of sense given his performance this year.

					Dodger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Subject: Re: NL Transactions (6/18-6/20)
Reply-To: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:22:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.204927.28426@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, frisbee@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Tyler Brown) writes:

[earlier transactions deleted]

>I'm still trying to resolve certain roster difficulties. On the Phillies,
>I'm assuming Mickey Weston was sent down, because no other move fits. On
>the Giants, I'm assuming Jim McNamara is down, because no other move fits.

    For the Giants, Jim McNamara has been sent down in early July, Craig
Colbert has taken his roster spot.  

>On the Pirates, I still face a conundrum. Two of the following players
>must be released, on the DL or in AAA:
>			Dave Clark
>			Kevin Young
>			Victor Cole
>			Jerry Don Gleaton
>			Jeff Robinson.

      I think Dave Clark is down since they acquired Alex Cole.  Jeff
Robinson has started tonight against Houston.  I have no idea where the
other 3 players are.

>Any help is appreciated.

    You're welcome.
>
>			frisbee@devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
>
>
>

Edward Hui
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Keywords: This is not even an issue really.  The problem with Bonds is that he chokes   in the clutch.  For two straight NCLS`s in a row, Bonds and "The Great White   Hope" have done nothing and left the offensive production to the likes of   Beuchel, Levalliere, a
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:16:58 GMT

news@cis.ohio-state.edu (NETnews        ) writes:


> the way, I hate both the Twins and the Pirates and my rather un P.C. rhetoric is fueled not by a love of Kirby or my hatred of the Pirates, but my disdain for atheletes like, R. Henderson, J. Canseco, B. Bonds, and the like who would rather strut around a bitch that they are only making 2-3 million a year than recognize that they have more than all of the token deprived children they mug with for there "favorite" charity will ever have.
>Path: pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu!miked
>From: miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey)
 
Once more in unision: AAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Players are paid by the owners, who wouldn't pay them as much if they weren't
making money. Ticket prices are set by what the market can bear.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/27 for CFs
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Date: 25 Jul 92 11:59:07 EDT
 <1992Jul21.153228.1782@island.COM><1992Jul22.031352.19852@panix.com> 
 <1992Jul24.154147.1766@island.COM><1992Jul25.004622.17179@panix.com>
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: spira@panix.com's message of 25 Jul 92 00:46:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.004622.17179@panix.com>, Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira writes:

> Oh, and I noticed that someone (sorry, I forgot who) replied to this
> same messages by adjusting OPS with the park effects.  I don't think
> you can really do that, though.  The park effects for runs scored can
> only be used on units expressed in terms of runs, like RC; they can't
> be used on OPS.

Correct; OPS should be multiplied by the square root of the park effect.
That is, if a park multiplies OBP by 1.1 and SLG by 1.1, then it will
multiply runs scored (as measured by OBP*SLG) by 1.21.

If you don't want to bother with square roots, just use half the park
effect; that's a good estimate for ratios near 1.

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
From: belo@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Matthew J. Belo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 6 hits in inning without scoring
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:50:13 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Boeing

>> 
>> Following is a puzzle that Hal Lebovitz, formerly of the Cleveland
>> Plain Dealer, periodically posed, but never answered in the newspaper:
>> 
>> How can a team get 3 triples, 1 double, 2 singles, and 2 stolen
>> bases in their half of an inning without scoring?  He claimed it
>> actually occurred in a minor league game.  I will send the
>> solution later.
>

Here is a possible scenario to solve the puzzle:

First batter triples and is thrown out at the plate trying to stretch it.
Second batter triples and is subsequently picked off at third.
Third batter doubles.
Fourth batter hits infield single to the left side, no advance.
A double steal is pulled off.
Fifth batter hits another infield single to the third baseman, again no
   advance.
Sixth batter hits a triple and fails to touch first base on his trip around
   the bases.  Defense appeals and he is called out.

3 Triple, 1 Double, 2 Singles, 2 SBs and 0 Runs.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Matthew J. Belo      |      belo@bcstec.boeing.com     |      (206)931-9722 |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Views expressed are those of the individual and do not necessarily reflect  | 
| the views of The Boeing Company or its subsidiaries.                        |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Famers
Keywords: I still have yet to see ANY evidence from you.
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:14:04 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <15441@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Electric Pancreas Huckabay) writes:
>(Mike "Mr. Kill File" Fester) writes:
>
>>How's this; explain how a guy with all the qualifications you mentioned makes
>>a decent 3rd baseman.
>
>Can't do it.  The skills necessary to play different positions are
>different.  You don't need a rocket arm to play any position, nor
>great footwork, nor anything else.  You can have an instinct.  Or,
>more likely, you can play just a few games there, get lucky, and
>superficially look good.  I didn't do an in-depth look at Garvey's
>brief career as a third baseman.

I took a peek at it last night, out of curiosity.  Here's what it looks like
to me.

	1. Garvey was very young.  It's quite possible that he suffered
	   later injuries that knackered his mobility or arm or both.

	2. It was only about 100 games at third.  1/3 of a season, followed
	   by half a season.  He was shifted to first after that second half
	   season because of his high error count.  His range factors were
	   still pretty good.

	3. Thorn and Palmer normalize by league on an *annual* basis.  As 
	   such, they are susceptible to glitches in their ratings when there
	   just aren't any good players at a given position in the league that
	   year.  Believe me, it happens, and it happens at third base more
	   often than most years.  Garvey's ratings for that year are being
	   compared with Ron Santo at the end of his career, Darrell Evans in
	   his first cup of coffee, Tony Perez (who led regular NL players in
	   chances per game, which tells you how bad the league was that year),
	   and a whole lot of tofu.

	4. Possible pitching staff effects.  The Dodgers had Downing, Osteen,
	   and a few others getting most of the innings.  Were these guys
	   ground ball pitchers, or at least the RHP's among them?

Garvey was adequate at third for a little less than a year, but scared everyone
with his errors.  He was only adequate because the league standards were so
low, it looks to me.  He probably would not have remained adequate for long.

-- 
        David Tate         |   When I was a rookie arm and bit 
  dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu  |   And the greenest hurler to take the mound
  Prof. of Story Problems  |   (Sighed the old southpaw, dying of innings)...
  Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR  | 	"Lament", Dylan 'Big Frank' Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Bryan Harvey
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:38:46 GMT

In article <AJR.92Jul30130027@pug.hri.com> ajr@hri.com writes:
>Does anyone know the scoop on Bryan Harvey?  He's been listed as
>day-to-day for a few weeks now in Baseball Weekly's injury report.
>When is he really expected back?  How bad is his elbow (will he be
>his old self when he does come back)?

Probably not.  This is reminding me of '89.  Harvey, after a phenomenal rookie
year in '88 (I still don't understand why Walt Weiss beat him for the ROY),
had off-season *elbow* surgery, and became wild in '89 and '90 (albeit still
effective, since it was still difficult to hit him) and started slow in both
seasons, forcing Doug Rader to use Greg Minton (in '89) and Mark Eichhorn
(in '90) to serve as co-closer with him.  It wasn't really until last year
that he rediscovered his control.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
GO TEAM CHINESE TAIPEI!
GO TEAM USA!	(Hey, I can sit on the fence, can't I?)
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:36:24 GMT

djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:

>In article <BrunC5.7zw@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:

>>There are two question which I feel can be asked when comparing players.
>>1)  Who is more talented?  This requires statistics alone.  Attitude,
>>    enthusiasm etc. won't change talent.
>>2)  Who is more better for the team?  This requires the combination of using
>>    statistics and analysing the intangibles.

>I can't believe I wrote this.  I must have been sleeping when I wrote this
>because this sorta contradicts everything I have said in my other posts.
>Since I believe the atmosphere of clubhouse, effort, huslte etc. effect
>the way players play it will also effect their statistics so determining
>their talent can not be determined just by the statistics.  Statistics
>determine the players abilities when subject to the intangibles he was
>subjecteed to when he got those statistics.  Thus players talent cannot be
>compared when playing on different teams since the clubhouse atmosphere
>effects some players play.
>--David Johnson
But in an essentially random way. Not nearly as significantly as (especially
in the case of young players) a hitting coach, pitching coach, or Tom House.
Not only does OBP and SLG correlate well from year to year, but most of
the time (judging just from eyeballing things) improvement/decline isn't
really effected much by changing ballclubs. If the intangibles were as
important as you say they are, then there should be a high correlation.
Among the Mets acquisitions over the past two years, some have been helped,
most have been hurt. Is Vince Coleman positively affected by NY intangibles?
	Actually, things get even murkier. Tracing a clubs effect on players
new to it must be park corrected. (E.g., the only reason why not every hitter
who moves to the Cubs improves is only due to the ineptitude of their front
office at times.) Secondly, many trades involve young players, who can
be expected to improve. Thirdly, oft times a player involved in a trade
(or free agency move) is either dumped by his team when coming off a poor
season, in which case he may be expected to improve (even allowing for aging
if it was a real stinker of a year), or he has had a very good year, and is
being traded when he is at his peak value, in which case he can be expected
to decline.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
From: cayley.waterloo.edu!djohnson@overmind.mind.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:51:00 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo
X-mailer: Stadel 3.4a-227
X-Spam-content: irrelevant

In article <1992Jul22.195226.20565@terminator.cc.umich.edu> 
sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda) writes:
>In article <Brr235.D8s@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> 
djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.160012.29170@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> 
sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes:
>> 
>>>Hmm. Whom did the Jays have to play the OF to replace Bell? Syl Campusano?
 
>>>Rob Ducey? Mookie Wilson? Let's face it, Bell was the 3rd best OF the Jays
>>>had in the organisation that could play at the Major League level. He knew
 it.
>>>And the Jays knew it.  Now, I don't know Dave Winfield's situation, but 
>>>didn't Dave demand to play in the OF 2-3 times during a week? Even though 
he
>>>rarely gets to a ball? No, Dave should not play the OF, not with his lack 
of
>>>mobility. It is not good for the team for Dave to play the OF. Yet he 
demanded
>>>that he play there.  Doesn't seem like he's in it for the best of the 
team.
>>
>>If you remember Mookie DH'd quite a bit that season and so by putting 
Mookie
>>in left you improve defense and the offense would remain the same.  Also
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Speaking as both a Mets fan and as a Mookie Wilson fan I can assure you
>that Mookie couldn't throw the ball through a wet paper towel.

True but he had speed and range which Bell didn't have at that time and Bell
had shoulder problems that year as well so he couldn't throw either.

>>it would have been nice to see Ducey get a chance to play because I think
>>that he could be better than average defensively and and OK offensive 
player.
>>
>
>Just one question:  Did you believe all that mediot blather about how
>Fred McGriff was a "choke" hitter in Toronto because his RBI totals were
>low?  If so then I can understand your how you got your opinion about 
>George Bell.

McGriff did hit 30+ HRs and never got over 90 RBI in Toronto so I can
see where *choke* came from.  I don't think that he was choke hitter
but I do remember him hitting a lot of solo HRs.  I think that it was
more that pitchers were pitching around him in key situations.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:17:16 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul24.163317.19085@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri  
Nichols) writes:
> In article <5091@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
writes:
> >One thing I never understand in these arguments is why somehow
> >baseball should be different than everything else. We all use 
> >intagibles to judge lots of things, so why shouldn't they count,
> >at least in part, in judging a player.  In our jobs we certainly
> >judge people that way.   If, for example, there is a software
> >engineer, say, who not only does his/her job, but is prone
> >to help others in time of need, be an information resource to
> >the department or company, go out of his/her way to help on extra,
> >people-oriented work (volunteer work on the department policy task
> >force, or whatever), and so forth.  I would expect this engineer
> >to be more highly valued (and more highly paid) than the engineer
> >who does his/her job but nothing more.  And one of the reasons we
> >do value the former engineer more is that he/she is not only
> >performing well but helping to raise the performance level of
> >others in the office.
> 
> I can have first-hand knowledge of whether a software engineer I work  
with
> does these sorts of things.  I can't in baseball.  I also have  
first-hand
> knowledge of whether those things do indeed help make the others in the
> group more productive.  I can't in baseball.
> 

Agreed. And if you told us that "Jane Smith in my office is very
valuable. In addition to doing a great job in her coding she
also has helped morale, done a lot of extra work helping a few
new people, and generally contributed to a more productive 
environment" we'd believe you, and be pretty sure that you were
right.  But, if I state (to go back to my favorite example of this)
the Pittsburgh Pirate players gave Willie Stargell a lot of credit
for making them all play better in their world series year,"  we'll
have several people who then post that these baseball players really
don't know anything about this. 


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:52:48 -0400 
From: Todd Harris Fletcher <tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Simulation Games

What is the best board simulation game?  APBA? Strat-o-Matic? Persue the
Pennant? Why do you think that?

-Todd

Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:23280 fj.rec.baseball:1400