Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.japan
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: For those of you that HATE japaneses
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:25:41 GMT

In article <ROTEN.92Aug31142755@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov> roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten) writes:
>I'll tack on soc.culture.china to the 'Newsgroups:' line, as this discussion 
>has bearing on SCC topics.  
>
>In article <1992Aug29.150142.16800@r-node.gts.org> yung@r-node.gts.org 
>(Amos Yung) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug27.235023.11962@engage.pko.dec.com> 
>>li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>>>
>>>Yes, not every non-communism country has been doing well but every communism 
>>>country has been doing poorly. Right now only 4 communism countries remain 
>>>on this earth.
>>>
>
>>Four communists coutries??? I can think of four just right from the top
>>of my head: China, North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba. I am sure there are more
>>in Africa.
>
>Nope.  Though, sadly, a number are socialist, with public sectors of their 
>economies which are _entirely_ too large for deveoping nations to afford.  
>
What's the difference between socialist and communist if they
are all run by some tin-pot dictator, whether they decocrate it with
a legislature or not?  A bunch of African countries fall into this
category.  They are busy re-decorating 'cause they want American aid,
too bad they didn't realize cold war is over and nobody is giving a
shit anymore.  

>>>>But most likely, China would just have been a colony of US if CCP
>>>                                               ????????????
[.....] 
>
>>For the moment, yes. But Russia is moving full force toward a free market
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>economy
> ^^^^^^^
>
>I can't BELIEVE I'm reading this !!  Look, the Russian people have dumped 
>their former Communist masters.  What they have NOT yet done is dump 
>their bureaucracy.  Different branches of it act like semi-autonomous 
>states, and control from the center is weak.  And _that_ is what has 
>slowed the pace of economic reform in Russia.  
>
I agree, nothing has changed in Russia, and it's real hard to get
rid of bureaucrats, I doubt anyone can.  The US government itself
is a big bureaucracy, does either presidential candidate dare to
say "I want to fire 100,000 useless paper shovelers in the Government?"
--and guess who will vin the election.

but in case of Russia:  brueaucrats = former communists, only nice guys
like gorby can be pushed out, the rest of them just give themselves
a new paint job. 

 
>>        while Chinese is still struggling with the question of "Dogma and
>>butter". If there is no fundamental changes, I say in a decade China will
>>once AGAIN be left behind.
>
>Don't you believe it !  It will take fundamental changes to _prevent_ 
>economic growth in China !  Outside the hardline faction of the CCP (an 
>ever-shrinking crowd), Communists are an endangered species in China 
>today.  Maybe China should create special reserves where Communists would 
>be protected, so future generations of Chinese would know what they 
>looked like.  :-) :-)  Once Deng Xiao Ping made it clear that he spelled 
>'socialism with Chinese characteristics' c-a-p-i-t-a-l-i-s-m, the pin was 
>out of the grenade for real.  
>
An upheavel like the one in USSR would.
 
>> and is gradually moving towards 
>>>market economy which is very encouraging news.
>>>
>
>>Until the next political movement, that is.
>
>Its going to take a _MIRACLE_ for the hardline faction of the CCP to gain 
>more than a marginal say in Chinese affairs.  And every year of sustained 
>economic growth will further marginalize them.  
>
Plus sons of the hardliners are busy doing business and taking bribes.  
>--
>Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
>  roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
>  7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
>  301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman