HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Worst belays
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:20:27 GMT

|>1) What is the worst belay anchor you've ever encountered (must be ON-ROUTE)?

Nothing in particular stands out, but I did hear once that a
friend of mine put webbing around a tuft of grass as a belay
anchor ... 

|>>>2) What is the most uncomfortable belay "stance" you've ever encountered?

The most uncomfortable, by far, was a belay years ago that was
at the bottom of a one pitch climb.  I was standing on a boulder,
and I shifted my weight and the boulder rolled over on one of my
ankles ... it wasn't until my partner topped out and yelled off
belay that I could, with much effort, roll the boulder off of my
ankle.  And then I had to do the climb!

--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
From: cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Sunscreen which is not greasy
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:33:11 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

I use the cheap stuff in a white bottle with blue writing.  Marquee is
the brand.  It even leaves a nice grey film on your skin (titanium
dioxide).

I have also decided to give up talking about body belays.  It doesn't
win me points on the net, and it doesn't win me points at the crags.
I don't even like the Sierra Club, anyway.

Ken "just missed wendsday afternoon climbing to work" cline
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,sci.geo.meteorology
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:26:23 GMT


An act of God caused me to loose my watch on Cloud's Rest 
a couple of weeks ago, and I've been waiting for a sign from 
Him before I replace it.

Well, I think it is more than coincidental that Casio should
come out with a new Alto  at this time.

So, does anyone know who is selling these in the Bay Area?

Thanks, :-)
John
John S. Watson, Civil Servent from Hell          ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov

HOMEBREW NAKED! --- Ursus cerevisiae nudium  (The Bare Beer Bear)
All right, then, I'll GO to hell"  --- Mark Twain
From: ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:23:39 GMT
Reply-To: ted@nmsu.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computing Research Lab


In article <1992Aug28.200319.3627@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:

   >Another advantage to using a double rope set-up has to do with
   >climbing a peak as a group of three. ..
   >Basically, if I'm climbing with two other people, I lead on
   >double ropes, and bring up my two partners somewhat simlutaneously,
	...

   generally on easier ground.  I've never tried it myself and whenever
   I mention it the response is usually a raised eyebrow or two.
   Still, it sounds reasonable if you have good rope handling skills.


i have used this a few times when taking newcomers up relatively easy
stuff (5.7 or 5.8).  it has the advantage of higher speed which helps
with a party of 3, and it also has the small advantage that each of
the followers can belay you independently (not that i take such people
on a climb that i would fall on).  it helps if you can allow for a few
feet of lateral separation so that if the lower climber falls, the
other doesn't get whapped by the rope tightening.

other than that it doesn't change things very much.  if one follower
falls, it is essentially impossible to continue belaying the other
without relieving the strain on the belay.  this could be a problem if
the climber who fell were injured.

--

REALLY, instead of hyping low impact soles, I think what we need
are more low impact souls.
					Greg Jahn
From: mc7z+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Minhall Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: work-outs
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:35:37 GMT
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA




I'm stuck in a school which has no climbing wall and few places to
workout.  For those with a little more experience than I what do you
feel is the best way to practice technique and what are the best
fingerboards.



Thanks Mike.
From: bobh@fuji.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:08:31 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona -- Tucson, AZ

In article <TED.92Aug22114236@sparta.nmsu.edu> ted@nmsu.edu writes:
>
>In article <LIZB.92Aug21113859@klosters.ai.mit.edu> lizb@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Liz Bradley) asks:
>
> [How do you avoid twists when using a munter hitch]
>

Larry Wall answers:

>the answer to the question about how to avoid twists in a rope when
>using a munter hitch is simple.  you just watch the rope you are
>feeding for twists.  as they form, you force them through the belay
>device by grabbing the rope a bit farther from the belay device than
>usual and forcing the twist through the belay.  this keeps the twist
>and untwist near each other and allows them to untangle each other.
>
>

Also, if you keep the hitch kind of loose all the time while you
feed rope through it, the twists tend to go through the hitch, rather
than accumulating at the belay. This reduces the twists, but doesn't
eliminate them entirely.

>--
>
>There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
>	Larry Wall

Bob Harrington
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:09:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.162433.12423@news.mentorg.com> billw@sjc.mentorg.com writes:
>
>-4 deg C??  That isn't too useful for 6000m peaks (or 4000m peaks for
>that matter) even in the summertime!  Are you sure it isn't -40 deg C?
>If not, then it couldn't be temperature compensated (at least not in a
>useful range.)
>

I think the number should be in Fahrenheit.  If the temperature of your wrist
got lower than -4 deg F, I doubt you'd have much use for the watch anyway.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Re: NEW Casio Alto Watch...
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:24:33 GMT
Reply-To: billw@sjc.mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Aug26.084756.1213@sol.UVic.CA>, dmanke@active.UVic.CA (Dennis  Manke) writes:
|> Recently I looked at the specs for the new Casio watch that will be avail
|> in Canada sometime in Oct (I believe).
|> 
|> Major highlights I can recall are:
|>   - measures altitude to 6000m (not 4000m)
|>   - temperatures to -4 deg C

-4 deg C??  That isn't too useful for 6000m peaks (or 4000m peaks for
that matter) even in the summertime!  Are you sure it isn't -40 deg C?
If not, then it couldn't be temperature compensated (at least not in a
useful range.)

-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Worst belays
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:20:11 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug29.011526.26625@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|>
|> <stuff deleted> ... Damned if you do, damned if you
|> don't.  ...<more stuff deleted>
|> 

This sometimes says it all and gave me an idea for a new thread or two
(sorry for yanking this out of context Eugene...)

1) What is the worst belay anchor you've ever encountered (must be ON-ROUTE)?
2) What is the most uncomfortable belay "stance" you've ever encountered?

On #1.  There's a great one on the Crucifix, right before the last 2 hard
pitches.  You're on a beautiful ledge, maybe 1 1/2 feet wide with wild 
exposure below.  There's a knife blade driven into the crack between the
ledge and the wall. The guy I climbed this with went up there again last
summer. When his partner expressed dismay over the situation he suggested
"why don't you clip into it?"  For those of you now ready to race up there,
you may be able to back the blade with a couple of micro RP-opps...

On #2.  Recently climbed Wunch's Dihedral. The so-called "cave" belay below
the roof is really comfortable (snicker), especially when transitioning
between pitches ("don't move while I step on your face"...)

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: Worst belays
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:01:30 GMT



Yeah the one at the base of Silent Scream (Indian Cove J-Tree Nat'l
Monument) is pretty harsh... you have to have someone sit behind you,
or carry a large headrest so your neck doesnt get stiff from looking
up from your lawn chair while belaying!  Makes it tough to swallow that
beer also!

I remember the time we were carrying our (stubby) lawn chairs around
J-Tree (hooked over the tops of our packs) when we decided to go up
and do the sw corner on the headstone (Ryan CG)

when we arrived at the base of the climb... alas there was no place
level enough to fold out our chairs.  These two english fellows
exclaimed..

"You brought lawn chairs all the way up here?!"

truly "heinous" belays,,, Ill tell you!




--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Haul bag (posted by request)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 21:31:58 GMT
Distribution: ca

Please respond to the user below (-- enm)

        Hi there !

        I'm planning to attempt the Nose on El Cap in two
weeks, starting Sunday Sept. 6. --Thanks to Bob and Bill Wright
for all the info on this route !--.
        It's not my first wall, but it's my first haul, 
so a critical item lacks to our equipment : the bag... 
Since this will probably be the only time I will use one -- I'm going 
back to France in 2 months,
I wondered if any one out there had an old one we could
buy or borrow... We're planning to do the route in 3 days,
so we wouldn't need a 150 liters one... (We are based in L.A.)

        Thanks for any help,

        Alix Martin (alix@la.tce.com)

***************************************************************
        We are adrenaline junkies.
                                        Jim Erickson
***************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: grease
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 01:39:09 GMT
Distribution: usa

Re: grease
A film staring John Revolta and Olivia Newton-John.....

In article <1992Aug28.182543.9661@colorado.edu> ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu
(Gregory Hill) writes:
>|> Hey, we need to come up with a grease rating system.
>Other eldo grease ratings:
>
>Bastille Crack - G3

Has this really gotten that bad?
I should note that I only used chalk briefly (I admit to chalking up
La Cosita, but I did not chalk up for Bastille Crack [a few years difference]).
If I "have" to chalk up now, I won't climb it (the second pitch of the last
climb two weekends ago, a second on the party above asked if I had any chalk,
Gawd, it was a mere 5.7 [trying new shoes], I could see chalk maybe for
10s and higher, but not 7s.  So I declare that G ratings should assume
no chalk.  Chalk should remove 1 rating.  Okay?

>Grand Course, P1 - G2
>Foothold at crux of Center Route: G3
(or should that be a "rubber rating": R3 ???)
>Foothold at crux of Cruisin' for Burgers: G2 (R2)
> 
>And finally, for those *especially* ABRASIVE climbs, perhaps we should have
>negative grease ratings!

Dr. Offwidth writes:
Cool!  A bi-directional scale!

Agreed!  Climbers discover negative numbers.

>e.g. piranha crack: G-13 (i've never done it,
>weasels rip my flesh: G-1
>anything at vedauwoo: G-?
>any approach to any climb at cochise stronghold, ariz.: G-23,

Meat Grinder?
Joshua Tree?

I'm still trying to figure out if the scale should be open ended like the
Aussies or closed like Gill: if a G-3 starts to get frequently done, then
it becomes a G-2....

I'm not so certain about abrasion.  This gets back to Morton and Stern's
proposal for a Platnium-Iridium 5.9 under nitrogen at the NIST Labs in
Boulder.  You end up trying to describe texture (a research problem in
computer graphics as well).

Geez, caught up, too many posts.  Time to go to dinner with Kring.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 23:30:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.140538.7873@odin.corp.sgi.com>
bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:
>I've got a great knot I call the "rat's nest".  Requires no concentration
>to tie. Looks different every time I tie it.  In fact, sometimes the rope
>ties this knot itself.  Sort of an "automatic" knot...

Automatic? Automagic?  Useful for tie ins?  Wow, artificially intelligent
rope.  Smart rope.  Swami, extra.  Reminds me of the Anderson cartoon
with the swami jumaring up his cobra like rope (coming up out of a basket).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: srclark@happy.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Fatal Accident/Fall, Garden of Gods, CO
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:52:27 MDT



In a recent post John Romero writes

>There was a fatal climbing accident in the Garden of the Gods (Colorado
>
>Springs, CO) last week.  There was a newspaper article describing it as
>
>"a simple mistake", that also contained glaring mis-information (name of
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^
>the climb) and lack of information.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I climb in the Garden regularly and was climbing there when the kid cratered.
The paper said he 'simply slipped' which is what happened. They told the 
name of the rock they were on and called it 'one of the hardest climbs'
or some such drivel. I here ya about the lack of info. All the evening news
said was 'the rope broke'. Well kiss my ass with that rope broke stuff, I
want to know why! They did have a terrific shot of his arms and legs
sticking out of the ledge he was wedged into.


>I got the following from word of mouth:

>Two climbers were climbing "Footloose and Fancy Free" on Kindergarten
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^

True, 5.10, 3 star, well protected. The city calls Kindergarten
Cathedral Spires, which is the 'climb' the paper reported they were
on.

>rock.  The lead climber was somewhat off route and about 40 feet above
>the top of the climb (anchor).  He had placed a number of pieces of
>protection past the anchor (not sure whether he also attaced into the
>anchor, or just missed it).  He took a fall, loaded the protection
>(which held), but the rope was cut by some sharp rock, resulting in a
>300 foot fall to this death.   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, the sharp rock is the rumor. I heard the other day that one of the
pros from a local shop went to the cop shop to look at the rope and 
concluded it had been cut on sharp rock. This isn't hard to believe. 
Kindergarten has some of the most hideous rock I've ever seen. Really
coarse Lyons with limestone fingers running all through.

The guy fell 150 ft.



>I was also told that the fire dept.  rescue team examined the protection
>but was not sure of their results.   ^^^^^^^^^^^

They couldn't find their butt with both hands.

Steve Clark
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Joining of Rappel Ropes
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:35:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.143922.19009@samba.oit.unc.edu>,
 cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699) writes:
|>Another question (to everybody) if you know you are going to be doing a
|>lot of climbing that requires a full length rappel, why not use double
|>ropes (say 9mm in stead of 11mm) and not have to carry a second rope
             ^^^
|>just for rappeling?  Or am I completely off base?  Are double ropes not
|>good for rappeling on?
|>

I've been climbing with two 9mm ropes for several years now, and one
of the reasons I've chosen this set-up is because I usually end up
doing 100 foot plus rappels (unless, of course, I can walk off the 
thing, which is rare).

Another advantage to using a double rope set-up has to do with 
climbing a peak as a group of three.  I'd seen this done before
with a European guide and his two sons while climbing in the 
Bugaboos, so, um, I started doing it also ... I wonder if anyone
out there may point out any faulty reasoning in my approach?
Basically, if I'm climbing with two other people, I lead on 
double ropes, and bring up my two partners somewhat simlutaneously,
each of them independently tied into one of the two 9mm ropes.
This makes a three person team much faster.  If the potential for
falling is high, then I bring them up one at a time.  AND, I wouldn't
use this set-up if the climb involved dangerous traverses where the
potential for a leader-type force fall was present.

I haven't heard any discussion on this way of using double ropes, 
so I'd be interested in opinions.


--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Rope condition questions
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:53:00 GMT

tim@muvms3.bitnet (Tim Calvert) writes:
: Greetings to all you expert climbers. I (a non-climber) have a question I 
: hope you can answer. I bought a length of BlueWater II rope early this 
: summer. It's been used for rappelling (purely recreational) about 5 times 
: on cliffs ranging from 30 to 90 feet. I've also put it through the gentle 
: cycle on my washer 3 times. There are two problems with the rope. First, 
: it has an obvious twist to it. Last week we were on the 90' cliff, which 
: allows most of the rope (it's about 120') to hang free, and looking up from 
: the bottom it appeared to spiral up the cliff. I tried to untwist it, but as 
: soon as I let go, it twisted right back again. The second problem is that 
: the rope feels very stiff for most of its length. This doesn't cause much of 
: a problem except when trying to coil the rope, though it does concern me. 
: The twist problem, however is a problem. When either rappelling or ascending, 
BlueWater II is a static caving rope, so it is supposed to be stiff.  That
stiff mantle is what keeps the dirt and mud away from the strong part, the
core.

If you have used it 5 times and washed it 3 times, you are probably washing
it too much.  If it is a top-loading washer, this can cause a twist in the
rope, too.

What kind of rappel device are you using?  If you are using
a figure 8, this could be the cause of much of your woe.  Devices which impart
a twist to the rope (like 8's) can cause the core to twist wrt the mantle,
which can greatly change the properties of the rope (like the spiraling).
Quite a few rescue groups now refuse to let members use twist-imparting
rappel devices.

--

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
From: SO2FSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: equipment
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:19:08 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

Hi fellow climbers - We are two Miami (Oxford) students who are looking
 to purchase some climbing equipment.  If you are interested in selling
 good, climbing gear that is still in good enough condition that you
 would trust to support a significant other!  Preferably shoes and
  harnesses.  Thanks for your time, Craig and Steve.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: Doug.Hemken@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Doug Hemken)
Subject: Chicago Mountaineers
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:55:55 GMT


Does anyone have an address for the Chicago Mountaineering Club?
Thanks.

-=> Doug Hemken
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: millard@acsu.buffalo.edu (Peter G. Millard)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: boots
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:48:34 GMT
Organization: UB

czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:

> For that sort
>of money I decided to try Asolos.  I ordered a pair of 102s. They're flexible
>enough for glacier hiking but I couldn't get the inner boot to fit right
>regardless of sock combinations.  I tried the older 101s.  They're stiff as
>hell (carbon fiber shank) but they fit perfectly.

I would have to agree. I tried a pair of older (white) Koflack Ultras before
I bought a pair of plastic boots and I wasn't all that impressed. However,
when I tried on a pair of the 101's the fit was amazing. I've used them for
everything from steep snow routes w/ long approaches, to technical ice
w/ 5 minute approaches...only complaint was the laces were too short & replaced
them after the first time I used the boots :). In addition..Last year
I did a pretty good post-hole through the ice over a stream & drenched my leg
and foot in 32o F water...The closed cell foam liners acted just like a wet 
suit. My feet kind of squished, but were completely warm. (Air was about 0F)
I couldn't ask for anything more.

-peter.
-- 
******************************************************************************
	Peter G. Millard  *  INTERNET: v057n5um@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu           
 	SUNY @ Buffalo    *          : millard@acsu.buffalo.edu
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning)
Subject: Re: Sunscreen which is not greasy
Reply-To: ted@nmsu.edu
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:45:03 GMT


i should have posted this before.  


the coppertone sport lotion (comes in a blue bottle) contains silica
and (i believe) the carrier seems to evaporate quickly.  whatever the
mechanism, the result is sunscreen that is competitive with chalk for
improving grip.


--

There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
	Larry Wall
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:48:53 GMT
Subject: Re: climbing in RMNP
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA