HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:04:37 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Sep10.212113.16124@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.102905.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
>|> 
>|> In article <1992Sep9.135102.10859@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, shamma@ccu.umanitoba.ca () writes:
>|> > In article <Dfq-LJB@engin.umich.edu> ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi) writes:
>|> > : 
>|> However it is natural
>|> for people to vote for her as a show of appreciation for what her brother Mr.
>|> Hariri has done for the whole lebanon....
>
>Walla, that's a good reason.. 
>I should legally change my name to Hariri one day and go back to Lebanon :-)
>Seems that name is hip, and could open many doors :-)
>
>Jokingly, Elie.

I think Ayman meant that the people can trust Ms Hariri ( not trying to repay
her by electing her ) since herself and her brother have done very much for
the country out of good intention ( a character a bit rare in some of our
politicians ).
However in addition to be helpful and trustworthy, a member of parliament
should have some essential political skills. Ms Hariri is best known for her
humanitarian stands more than for her policies.
We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.

I. Ballouz
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:34:34 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

In article <1992Sep14.160257.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep14.181902.24998@ulrik.uio.no>, eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
[...]
>>    Why elections in Lebanon?
>Because lebanese have not voted for the last 20 years and the current 
>parliment does not represent them.
[...]

The elected parliament still does not represent them.  Titi titi mitl ma
rihti mitl ma jiti (translation titi-titi like you come you go).  How do
I know that the parliament does not represent them?  I belong to the people,
and I was prevented from voting in the Lebanese embassy.  Every news article
you read tells you that the new parliament is heavily tilted towards Syria.
Is this what the Lebanese people really want?  Comeon guys, you're not
born yesterday, don't act like everything is wonderful, it is not.  A crime
has been committed against the Lebanese people.  By applauding the crime you
become as guilty as the regime that perpetrated it.

We are told that the feudal system is finished.  Great!  (Truly.)  Now what
have we got instead?  Don't tell me democracy, I'll puke.  (Please forgive
the foul language.)

>A. fardoun

bassem
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:57:14 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep11.110437.13857@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>
>I think Ayman meant that the people can trust Ms Hariri ( not trying to repay
>her by electing her ) since herself and her brother have done very much for
>the country out of good intention ( a character a bit rare in some of our
>politicians ).
>However in addition to be helpful and trustworthy, a member of parliament
>should have some essential political skills. Ms Hariri is best known for her
>humanitarian stands more than for her policies.
>We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.

I am only curious why a nice and humanitarian person could not find better
running mates :-)

>I. Ballouz

Regards, Elie.


--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Jesse Helms (AOUN and the south)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:15:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.160945.3568@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
> In article <1992Sep6.104031.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Sep5.140944.14087@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>>> fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
> 
>>present situation (the Israeli occupation and the syrian presence in lebanon) 
>                                 ----------                --------
> 
> Any further discussion with you is futile. Maybe partition is the answer
                                                   *********
if this is your (and people like you) reply because we have different points of
view toward the same thing, that is too bad. and I hope now that you know very
well how we feel when people like you were surrounding beirut with the Israelis
in 1982. Any way my opinion in the above statement -- is not a revenge because the 
phalangists or others fought or still fighting with the Israelis-- it is so
because this is the way that I see it. I might be wrong but I can not change my 
mind just to please others unless I am convinced otherwise.
> to keep all the guys who think like you at a safe distance. :-)
                                                *************
I guess you are at a safe distance.
> 
> Regards, Elie.
> 
A. Fardoun
> --
> 
>                                  ________
> ________________________________/--------\______________________________________
>  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: wsaba@csi.UOttawa.CA (Walid Saba)
Subject: Elections
Keywords: how about that...
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 06:20:09 GMT


Hey, the Lebanese people are engaging in a democratic process: ELECTIONS!
Please, there never was, never is, and never will be a democracy in our
country until we as people evolve into a higher-level of social development.
Look at the current mentality of our youth. Can you trust these people to
elect a capable body of goverment. Just the other day, two, supposedley
educated young Lebanese were fighting about who is a better leader (and
I don't want to mention the two names they were fighting about, because
it is really sad....).
They were fighting about two, tribe leaders, that do not have any ideals,
any values, any education for god's sake.... How can we be so ignorant, and
yet claim to be.... Ah it's just too much. 

And this has nmothing to do with the "foreigners" as some might feel
right now. WE NEVER HAD A DEMOCRATIC TRADITION.

Our system is fuedal, tribal, and filled with traditional 3rd world-like
problems...

But its is funny to here that there are actually elections....

Walid
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Aoun might join the goverment
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:34:03 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep14.023321.2876@dmpe.csiro.au> zughbi@dmpe.csiro.au (another phoenics person) writes:

[...] Good stuff deleted 

>Unless the Christians amongthemselves have a clear vision of what they
>want beyond persons like Aoun, they will keep on self destructing. Aoun
>has created schisms among the Christians and he is the last one to decide
>who to cooperate with and who not to.

Hmm... Good point. 
Where were those Christians when the LF and Kataeb leaders decided in favor 
of Taef ?  No one asked my opinion :-) I recall Geagea spending innumerable
hours trying to convince everyone why Taef is good. :-) (Maybe he changed his
mind now ?)

To say Aoun created schisms is quite incorrect. At best you can say he
provides/d a popular alternative. Besides, he's the legal interim 
prime minister. :-)

Regards, Elie.

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
From: fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: <None>
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:02:57 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder


In article <1992Sep14.181902.24998@ulrik.uio.no>, eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
> What a pity!
> 
> the discussion on the soveriegnty of Lebanon becomes a discussion on how many
> votes a certain person got or which list was better than the other.
> 
> It is true that there were very many important and crusial points that were
> made, but we seem to loose sight of the REAL problem:

whenever you feel that you are in the corner you change the subject 
Now the answer for your questions follows

> 
>    Why elections in Lebanon?
Because lebanese have not voted for the last 20 years and the current 
parliment does not represent them.

>    Why now?
because it was about time to do so.

>    Who wants them?
the majority of the people of lebanon.

>    What will they lead to?
in Lebanon no body knows But ithink that they will lead to a better lebanon.
>    Now that the turn-out was low what will happen?
In some areas it was low in other areas it was above 80% such as
Tyre,Nabatyie...
>    How long will Lebanon survive?
As far as we want it to survive regardless of personal interests.
>   etc. etc.
> 
> 
> How interesting to read Hani Abi Nassif, as if he lives in another planet.
> 
I think you belong to another planet.

> I get depresed, when I see that no matter what poeple say, there is someone,
> who will still stick to age old arguments and rhetoric.
> 
> 
> What do we wat with our country?
I said what we want before.
> do we want to have a counrty?
We want. Do you?
> What kind of country do we want?
I also wrote about that before and you said that you will sign it all.
> To which counrty do we want to unite?
LEBANON AND ONLY LEBANON FOR ALL LEBANESE.
> 
> please, let us stop playing arround as if we were the wisest creatures on
> earth. Note that I said WE.
> 
> There are important issues at stake, and if we are to be better than he rotten
> politicans we had, we should learn to deal with the important issues and not
> just speak for the sake of speaking!
> 
> I would like to see a real debate on elections in Lebanon.
> 
 
> elie wardini
A. fardoun
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 13 Sep 92 10:41:37 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <BuHKMI.CrI@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep12.184758.4353@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>>In article <BuFr3B.BwK@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep11.145714.7290@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:

  Stuff deleted

>I meant what I said about her making a good political judgement in running
>on Berri's list. She knew and we know that Berri has a great support in the
>south, and those who vote for him will most probably vote for those on his list.
>And since the South and the Nabatiye provinces formed one electoral district,
>it simply meant that Berri's supporters ( and they are the majority, by far, in
>the south) are capable of tipping the balance in favor of whoever is on their
>list in almost whichever area in the south he/she might be (as was proven in
>the latest results). Knowing that, Ms. Hariri made a good political decision 
>by joining Berri as a running mate. That made it especially vital for her when 
>all other factions and old enemies joined that same list.  

I am not an expert on our electoral system but what I know is that you need
two Sunni moslems to be elected from the Saida area.
Among the Sunni moslems who were contesting these two seats Ms. Hariri, by far,
is preferred. The rest (whether Mr. Saad , the fundamentalists or others who
belong to famous families) were not sure about the support they have since
so many things had happened in the last twenty years(last time the election tookplace). Some were not sure about their traditional supporters. Others did gain
some support because of their positions in the war but they have also managed to create many many ennemies.
This did not apply to Ms Hariri.

Here, the other members of her list were the real beneficials since they
were not able to find a better candidate to run for the Sunnis.

So I do not agree with your analysis. However, I am glad you had explained
what you had meant in the first place.

>Samir.  

Ibrahim.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: A Rousing Wellcome
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:24:09 GMT

In article <19527.2aaa875a@ul.ie> abbasa@ul.ie writes:
>  
>Thousands of people turned out to greet President Rafsanjani of
>Islamic Republic of Iran as he arrived in the Pakistani capital
>Islamabad.  This historic wellcome has refreshened the memories of
>the similar reception given to Ayatullah Ali Khamanai, then president
>of Iran, when he had visited Pakistan.  Pakistani government had to 
>take strict security measures at this occasion.
>
>This great and historic reception is evidence of growing influence of 
>Islamic Revolution in abroad.  It clearly shows that Islamic revolution
>still rules the hearts of not only the Muslim people of Iran but of the whole
>Islamic World also.  This rousing wellcome dashes the hopes of open
>and hidden enemies (MUNAFIQIN) of Islamic revolution and warms the blood
>of MOMINEEN ( believers).
>
>regards,
>
>Asad.   
>


wa @alaykum as-salaam, wa raHmat al-Laah wa-barakaatuh!


elie wardini
From: ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: A Non-democratic Democracy! (Was: election ..)
Date: 16 Sep 92 04:06:52 GMT
Organization: Electrical & Electronic Eng., The University of Adelaide

In article <1992Sep14.210811.27118@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes:

>eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:

[...]

>>   Why now?

>Because there is never a bad time for a democratic process to take
                                         ~~~~~~~~~~
>place.

>>   Who wants them?

>Any democracy-loving person.
     ~~~~~~~~~

and in article <BuJyvB.GLD@ucunix.san.uc.edu>
minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:

[...]

>the basic principle is that islamic laws are implemented so i guess you
>could call it a "kingdom of God". it is democratic, it is not democracy
                                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>as you can see, but it is very democratic. maybe in familiar terms you
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>could call it a democracy under an islamic constitution.
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK. You guys might call me a trouble maker but i can't help but
wandering whether you both are talking about the same type of
"non-democratic democracy"!

You know, in the Middle East we do have some funny types of
democracies. In Lebanon, we had the "Repeated Six (Sittee Mkarrar)
Democracy", up til Taef agreement. Taef is trying to bring the
"Fifty-Fifty Democracy", which is claimed to be an upgrade! In Syria,
they have the "Uncontested Democracy", the type of democracy that
allows Pr. Hafez Assad to stay for ages in power even at the cost of
thousands of lives and a "constrained freedom". In Israel, they claim
to have the first real democracy in the middle east, but it turns out
to be a "Restricted Democracy", sort of an exclusive club where only
jews can participate and whoever bothers the Club members is doomed to
die!

It would help to know what type of "democracy" are we going to
experience in Lebanon, in the remaining confused part of our lives,
before actually stepping into the unknown :-)

George
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: CLAO Sept. 5 1992.
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:03:55 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.



CLAO Sept. 5 1992
-----------------

During a press conference held on August 31, State Department spokesman
Mr. Boucher was asked: "During the run-up to the Nicaraguan elections, before
voting had even taken place, the United States was not shy in coming 
forward and pointing to elections irregularities, unfairness, intimidation,
all of which have been reported in the first two rounds (of elections) 
in Lebanon. Why this coyness in coming forward ?"

Mr. Boucher answered: "I don't want to get involved in comparisons of the
thousands of elections that take place around the world and the various
things that we've had to say about them. I think our position has been
consistent..."

Another question was: "Can elections be .. free and fair if one full segment of 
the population is boycotting them ?"

Mr. Boucher answered: "At this point, I am not going to try to make a comment
about how the elections have proceeded..."

The following day, on Sept. 1, Mr. Boucher was asked:
"The Taef agreement calls for a government by consensus, there is a major
boycott of elections in Lebanon. How do we coincide between government 
by consensus and holding of elections, despite the overwhelming opposition
to elections?"

Mr. Boucher answered that the State Department will wait "after the elections
were concluded....to comment on some of these issues."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: Syria, Lebanon boycott talks on regional issues; Israel unsure
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 13:39:30 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu


In article <RWt-4AA@engin.umich.edu>, ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi) writes:
> [ Article crossposted without permission ]
> [ Author was SID BALMAN Jr. ]
> [ Posted on Tue, 15 Sep 92 8:19:53 PDT ]
> 
> 	WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Lebanese and Syrians will continue their boycott
[.......]
> 	In Lebanon's case, he said, Israel must indicate its willingness to
> withdraw soldiers from the so-called security zone in the south that the
> Jewish state has occupied since the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mr. BALMAN jr. is not accurate here.  I hope that annexation is not next.
Maybe he can claim S. Lebanon as part of Judea and Samera too!!!
-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan            | Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
|__ | \/ |___| Computer Aided Engineering Network| hani@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:31:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.145714.7290@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie
I. Mourad) writes:

>>We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.
>
>I am only curious why a nice and humanitarian person could not find better
>running mates :-)
>
>>I. Ballouz
>
>Regards, Elie.


very true (both elie and Ballouz)!

I see the point that a person who is interested in humanitarian help, and work
social issues, is very welcome to the Lebanese parliament.

Yet now a days, we need to know what the elected parliamentarians stand for.

Does Mss/Mrs. Hariri agree with the policies of her Hizbollah running mates?

Does she share Mr. Berri's view of politics?

Yes I would have liked much better if she had run with Dr. Salim el-Hoss.

Yet what are her stands on the Israeli occupation? Syrian occupation? on the
treaty of Brotherhood and Cooperation?

How does she see that her running for elections under the rpesent situation
helps Lebanon?


This does not only apply to Mrs. Hariri. These questions apply as much to
el-Hoss and any other running candidate.


I am still disappointed that running lists are retricted to "areas of
traditional influence".

Who does Hoss ally himself with otherwise in Politics?

Does he support Berri's list? or Kamil el-Asaad's? Does He support HUsseini or
Hizbollah?


There are too many uunanswered questions by all who have run so that I trust
any of them! (especially that I am against elections under the present
circumstances!)


Yes I know, we have always had this system in Lebanon!

When the system suits me I am happy, but when it doesn't suit me, it is bad?


NO, NO, NO! we need change, and will have to work for change!

No more should any politican be elected because of his richness (even if she
kind as Mrs. Hariri obviously is, but she could concentrate on her welfare
without being a politicain! so what is she going to do as a politican?) nor
traditional support nor any feudal reason, or because he has enough guns or is
promising us paradise!


elie wardini
From: hammoud@cicb.fr (Mustapha Hammoud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re Lebanon net
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:58:48 GMT
Organization: CICB - Universite' de Rennes I - FR

J'ai lu le message de quelqu'un demandant s'il existe 

un reseau informatique  ( Net )  au Liban.

Et bien je crois que pour l'instant c'est non car l'infrastructure

des telecommunications au Liban est detruite. A mon avis il faut

au moins 4 ans pour qu'on commence a penser a construire un reseau 

informatique au Liban.

M. H.
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: A Carrot Juice Story in Lebanon
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:44:42 GMT
Organization: LC


From all of my friends that visited Lebanon this Summer, none came back
glad for many reasons.  Some had visited Lebanon last year, but indicated
that last year Lebanon was in a better shape.  Most of them were
speaking of how $$EXPENSIVE$$ Lebanon has become.  Nothing is original any
more.  They said, you go to Tripoli's Alhallab pastries, basically
the face of Northern Lebanon, and you can no longer finish 1/2 plate
of Kanafa due to the cheating in the product.  The qatr is just corn syrup,
the Kashta is all flower, and so on. 

One of the guys loves carrot juice , told me he went to drink carrot
juice near Cinema Al Donia across from Almanshiyyeh/Tripoli.  Here's
what happened:

My friend to seller:  I would like a glass of carrot juice.
seller:  Here drink its lined up in front of you ( pre-juiced)
My friend: No, I wish to drink fresh.
Seller:  This is all fresh.
My friend: Yes, but I've been drinking carrot juice all over but noticed
	   that it all includes water (cheating).
Seller:  Wallahy, (I swear to god) we don't cheat.  Did any one send you
	 here to offend us, or told you we cheat?  NO, NO, that's not
	 right.  Any way, I'll juice some for you.

He grabs a jug 1/2 full and begins juicing carrots in it (apparenly the
jug contains some water).

My friend: No please juice directly in the glass.
Seller:  No I can't.
My friend:  Why not.
Seller:  Because we cannot afford to sell a glass for 2000 LL upon your wish.
My friend: You were just swearring otherwise.
Seller:  Leave me alone.

THis is just one small story of what I heard.  Lebanon never used to
be like this.  Many people said they went to the mountains to eat
in nice (masayif) resturants, paid over $100 for 3 people, but the food
disgusting.  My friend said, it used to be better duing the war.

What happened to typical OUR LEBANON?

jle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon