From: magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto)
Newsgroups: chi.general
Subject: Re: Casion--Vote (really chicago and $$)
Date: 24 Jan 93 13:07:53 GMT
Distribution: chi
Organization: DarkTower Software
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Gene Rackow (rackow@skeeve.mcs.anl.gov) wrote:
: >And Chicago pays more to the state than any other IL city.  It also provides
: >the plowing, repairs, etc. that keep the airports you like to fly in and
: >out of open, the water supply that many suburbs drink from, not to mention
: >the police protection for the suburbanites who like to go down to
: >Water Tower, Division, and the other "tourists traps".

: Beep..Wrong answer...  For the burbs to get water from chicago, we have to pay
: extra for it.  We do not get it for free.

Beep again. Right answer.  Some suburbs (such as Skokie) get their water
elsewhere (namely Evanston). The reason Chicago gets certain subsidies is
for the large water supply they provide to themselves and other cities (at 
the cost you mentioned).  The point was that certain aid that Chicago gets
from the state indirectly benefits the burbs through services Chicago
provides to them.

: The burbs are forced to do a 
: balanced school budget on reduced amounts of money in part because chicago can't
: seem to submit a balanced budget.  Why is Ohare even IN Chicago?  Look at
: a map sometime and tell me why that little bit of gerrymandering went on.  It's
: not that Ohare is or would be a burden to the city coffers.

O'Hare is in Chicago because Chicago annexed it.  That's no secret.  It's also
no secret the federal government wanted them to do it.

: Chicago also was able to help promote the idea that sports is a way out of
: the getto by getting big donations from sports teams and shoe companies.  The
: smaller towns did NOT get a dime from foot locker.  (yes doing things to
: keep kids in school is a good idea, but looking at how much I am paying
: to not only keep MY kids in school, but many in chicago as well hurts.

It hurts me even more since I go to a private school.  It hurt my parents
even more since they paid from K-12 for their children and everyone elses.
At least part of your tax dollar goes to your kids education.  ANd the fact
remains that more is spent per student in the burbs than in the city. So
what are you bellyaching about?

: I will not go to another foot locker.  If they really wanted to help, 
: they could have made a state wide donation to help ALL schools with sports
: programs.  Our schools had to cut several sports because of lack of funds.  
: Did the Bulls/Bears/Cubs/foot-Locker care? Not a bit.  It's the poor little
: inner city kids that need a way to get out of the poor area of town.)

I won't even touch that.

: Chicago also has a much higher percentage of kids in private schools than
: we have in many of the burbs or down-state towns.  Why does it cost so much
: more to run chicago schools on a PER-KID basis than it does anywhere else?

see above.  Where'd you get this percentage claim anyhow, pull it out of
a hat?  Show me where these statistics come from, and maybe I'd believe it.
There are more public schools than private schools in the city.  Private
schools have been closing down in the city, and the public ones are 
overflowing.  You've got some badly skewed data or something.
: >
: >Hey, I'm all for seperatism.  Let Chicago not pay anything to the state
: >in the form of taxes and the like, and we won't ask for any money from
: >the state.  Then let the suburbs get their own airports, TV stations,
: >business centers, etc.  
: I would love to see how long chicago would last if it wasn't for the money
: the state gives them.

: Humor mode on..
: Chicago pays money to the TV stations and stores so they stay in operation.
: So many places would love to move into an area that pays them to do
: business in their town.  I have a money loosing business, lets go into
: chicago where they will pay me to keep it in operation...  I can use
: the city money to show a profit then go buy a boat.. ;-)
: Humor mode off.

Whatever...

: Every time I go into the city, I pay extra for that "priveldge".  I pay
: an additional 1+% in item taxes.  I pay $$ to park or ride the train/bus.
: If at the airport, I pay even more in taxes and fees, plus the add-ons
: they have on ticket prices.  Let's not forget how much I indirectly pay
: to the city through the airline.  They pay landing charges, gate fees, etc.
: The only reason there are so many TV/radio station IN chicago it that
: from there they are able to broadcast to the burbs and into Gary and it's
: burbs.  That way THEY have a bigger audience potential and can charge more
: in advertising fees.  Some of which have to be payed, guess where... To the
: city.  Putting a radio/tv tower in places like Joliet, Naperville, Aurora
: allows them to broadcast over alot of corn fields as well as real listners.
: Corn stalks are not good customers though they do have big ears.

That's the biggest smoke screen I've seen yet.  Chicago has so many TV and
radio stations for 1) Most of those stations were around long before many
of the suburbs were, 2) Chicago itself was a bigger market than a small
patch of suburbs when those stations were started, 3) You can't just
plop an antenna anywhere - the EPA would have a seizure.  You think
dangerous EMF comes off high voltage lines? Stand next to a 150,000 watt
transmitter and you'll get an E-burn you'll never forget.  Most of
the transmitters are on the top of skyscrapers (which aren't in the
burbs) for maximum propogation.  The suburban stations mostly run
on UHF (in case ya didn't notice) which doesn't need such a restricted
run as VHF.  In other words, the best location for an antenna at the
time the stations were set up was in Chicago, and for the most part
there weren't any suburbs to reach (except for like Aurora and a few
others that were around before Chicago).


: I don't think you under stand what I said.  It's not that I think that a
: city of 40,000 should get as much as chicago.  I do think that we should get
: a close approximation of what we send into the state.  For every dollar
: I pay in state taxes, only about 15 cents, if lucky, comes back to the city in
: which I live.  I then get raked over the coal by our local gov't for more.
: I have to pay $100 for just basic school fees for middle school kids (each).  
: Then if they want to be in sports or other clubs, thats another $30 ($60 next
: year) per sport/activity.  My water and sewer bills tripled in the last 2 years.

I'll find my violin.  I pay the same tax rates as you do, and probably
a lot higher property tax.  As for dollars to the state, let's consider
that again.  Not only does the state make income off your wages, it makes
it off sales tax, liquor taxes, cigarette taxes, gambling taxes, and
let's not forget business.  I'd say that in like a 25 mile radius around
the city, over 1/2 the tax is generated by sales/business in the city.
There is just more selling and business going on in the city than in
the burbs, so there is more tax revenue.  Now who has to provide the
plowing and crap like I mentioned before so the stock broker can
get to work downtown?  Yep.  The city.  If Chicago could get the same
percentage the burbs do from what they fork over to the state, the city
would be a lot better off.

: >
: >Don't be silly.
: I'm not being silly.  Anyone who thinks that the city of chicago can
: stand on it's own is another story.

And the suburbs could?  Hardly.  I think they need each other, but I
also think that this moaning that "Chicago gets too much" is unfair
and unrealistic.

But hey, this is easily settled.  I'm sure they keep a record somewhere
on geogrpahic revenue stuff.  Like what area turns in what to the state.
If you show me that and I'm wrong, I'll gladly apologize and shut my
mouth.  Fair?

-Louis

--
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 Louis J. Giliberto, Jr.   ! magus@drktowr.chi.il.us  (send here)
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Newsgroups: chi.general