From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: comments from president of EC: YAGA exposed.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:17:42 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <9301221425.AA02640@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>Would the world also like to know Turkiye's role in drug trade? human
>rights abuses? the dozens of UN resolutions against it for the Cyprus
>events? the Kurdish issue? 

A confused "sipa" in action. Another important development of the past 
4 years is the apparent relocation of ASALA's headquarter away from 
war-torn Beirut to the more peaceful surroundings of Athens, Greece 
and Nicosia, Cyprus. Operating from their new locations under the 
rubric of the 'Armenian Popular Movement,' this, the most violent of
the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle, enjoys considerable
support from the Greek Governments. Two major conferences held
by this organization in Athens have benefited from the participation
of a number of prominent Greek politicians, including that of
the son of Papandreou, himself a member of the Cabinet. 

Indeed, the extent of Greek Government cooperation with the
ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists also caused the U.S. Department of
State to issue a strong warning as to the danger inherent in
this policy. 

Source: Alan Cowell, 'U.S. & Greece in Dispute on Terror,' The New
        York Times, June 27, 1987, p. 4.

                    Special to The New York Times

ATHENS, June 26 - A dispute developed today between Athens and 
Washington over United States intelligence reports saying that 
Athens, for several months, conducted negotiations with the
terrorist known as Abu Nidal...

They said the contacts were verified in what were termed hard
intelligence reports.

Abu Nidal leads the Palestinian splinter group Al Fatah 
Revolutionary Council, implicated in the 1985 airport 
bombings at Rome and Vienna that contributed to the Reagan 
Administration's decision to bomb Tripoli, Libya, last year.

In Washington, State Department officials said that when
Administration officials learned about the contacts, the
State Department drafted a strongly worded demarche. The
officials also expressed unhappiness with Greece's dealings
with ASALA, the Armenian Liberation Army, which has carried
out terrorist acts against Turks....

Source: "Hagop Hagopian said to have been part of 1972 Terror Attack at
Munich Olympic Games," The Armenian Reporter, February 7, 1985, p. 1.

"Le Matin, the influential Paris daily, based on unidentified sources,
claimed last week that Hagop Hagopian, the founder and leader of one
faction of the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA),
was among the Arab terrorists who staged an attack on the living quarters
of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games...

Le Matin added that up to 1982, Hagopian operated out of Beirut, Lebanon,
but escaped from the country when Israeli forces entered the city. It was
about this time that a statement issued by ASALA claimed that Mr. Hagopian
was dead of wounds suffered during a bombing by the Israeli Air Force,
although it is generally believed that the mysterious leader is alive and
well and presently is residing alternately in Damascus, Syria, and
Athens, Greece. The paper also noted that the socialist government of
Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou and his P.A.S.O.K. party accepted the
Armenian underground leader with "open arms" and still providing him
with assistance simply because of Greece's traditional enmity with Turkey.

Le Matin further adds that ASALA derives only a small portion of its
expenditures from wealthy Armenians who support the cause, with the rest 
coming either from other sources or from proceeds of an involvement in
drug trafficking. The paper asserts that Bulgarian authorities also assist
ASALA in obtaining all types of weapons that are used against Turkish targets 
and diplomats."

>the Armenian genocide? 

Well, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. 
You should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on
distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel 
that you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum 
you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to 
another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, 'sipacik,' 
but a fact.

I will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, 
lie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan 
to 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is 
nothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in 
x-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, 
that employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel 
free to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists,
the Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian
criminal organizations.

Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men,
women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and 
those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up.

Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.

"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city 
 of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, 
 closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan 
 on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized 
 and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during 
 the next two days while the small Ottoman garrison had to retreat to the
 southern side of the lake."

Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.

"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,
 Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.
 Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First
 World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse
 to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other
 invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian
 success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of
 Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common
 soldiers began deserting in droves."

"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of
 World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy
 increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,
 Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn
 massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of
 expected arrival of the invading Russian armies."


Source: Stanford J. Shaw, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,"
        Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.

"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final
 plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the 
 president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:

 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the 
  glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian
  arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the
  Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining
  under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey
  who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new
  free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]

Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made
to strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg
confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul."

[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, "Road to
Independence," p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.

"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and
 the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be
 accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]"

[156] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, 
pp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields,"
Cambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, "Harb Hahralaram," 2 vols.,
Ankara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.
46942 and 22083.

"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it 
 appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be
 able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian
 civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from
 the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted
 Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from
 Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new 
 Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians
 crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed
 no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"

[162] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and
58350.

[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; 
Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, "Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"
Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915.

>its 'brave' role in
>WW2 supplying everything to the Nazis? 

Pass the "sipas" please. During World War II Armenians were carried away 
with the German might and cringing and fawning over the Nazis. In that 
zeal, the Armenian publication in Germany, Hairenik, carried statements 
as follows:[1]

"Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements (the Jews)
 when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease, and when it 
 becomes necessary for a people (the Nazis) to eradicate them in an uncommon
 method, these attempts are regarded as revolutionary. During the surgical
 operation, the flow of blood is a natural thing." 

Now for a brief view of the Armenian genocide of the Muslims and Jews -
extracts from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the San
Francisco Chronicle, as an answer to a letter that had been published
in the same journal under the signature of one B. Amarian.

 "...We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities
  against our people (Jews)...Members of our family witnessed the 
  murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian 
  neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish 
  and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see 
  the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors...
  Armenians were in league with Hitler in the last war, on his premise 
  to grant them self government if, in return, the Armenians would 
  help exterminate Jews...Armenians were also hearty proponents of
  the anti-Semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists. Mr. Amarian!
  I don't need your bias."  

  Signed Elihu Ben Levi, Vacaville, California.

[1] James G. Mandalian, 'Dro, Drastamat Kanayan,' in the 'Armenian
    Review,' a Quarterly by the Hairenik Association, Inc., Summer:
    June 1957, Vol. X, No. 2-38.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast