HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Civil Liberties and Drugs
Keywords: New-Speak
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:34:02 EDT

In article <1992Oct14.114216.27022@kodak.kodak.com> axman@acadia.Kodak.COM (Mike Axman) writes:
>
>Not that I believe my own drivel here, but it's important to point out that
>if "reverse discrimination" is a natural outgrowth of "prohibiting discrimination", (as with the US model of discrimination prohibition) then
>discrimination is NOT necessarily decreased by it's prohibition.
>At the very least, it's not a cut-n-dried issue.

Well, prohibiting discrimination is *very* different from requiring a 
positive action to balance out previous discrimination (as some "affirmative
action" programs seem to do).


>It seems as if the whole 
>concept of prohibition is like sand paper to the human machine.  Tell me I 
>can't do something for some reason, and you'll find lot's of people doing it
>who might not of before.  Am I crazy, or does this seem true most times?

It is certainly true in many cases, but I don't think that this is one--and
I don't think it is true, in general, for issues that are viewed as "moral"
issues by most people.

You don't see too many people committing murder simply because murder is
illegal.

I don't see any indication that anti-discrimination laws have inspired
a backlash of increased discrimination.  (Frankly, I don't even see a
backlash in the form of increased discrimination from the "reverse-
discrimination" policies--though those certainly have produced hard
feelings in response.)


This topic seems to have taken on a life of its own, since I originally
mentioned it.  I introduced it as one of several examples questioning just
what people considered acceptable for a government to do to protect (potential)
employees (in response to a comment that the govt shouldn't protect employees
from wanton drug testing).

It seems to me that one can debate whether or not the government should
prohibit discrimination, on moral grounds as to what government should or
should not do.  However, these arguments that the "free marketplace"
is as/more effective at reducing discrimination are profoundly unconvincing,
and are contradicted by historical experience.

That is, if you don't believe that the govt should make anti-discrimination
laws, then fine.  But let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the
justification for that position comes from the marvelous anti-discriminatory
effect of a free marketplace...


-- 
J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
(I like to put 'greeny' here, 
but my d*mn system wants a 
*real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: dec@alex.com (Doug Clinton)
Subject: Re: Piracetam?
Organization: Alex Technologies Ltd
Apparently-To: mail2news@news.demon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:04:04 +0000

In article <1992Oct14.192510.8745@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
|> HZS@psuvm.psu.edu (Therion) writes:
|> : On a recent trip to England I picked up some over-the-counter pain killers that
|> : contained aspirin, caffeine, and 200 mg of Piracetam. I've looked through a few
|> : resources (the PDR, the Merck), but can't find anything other than the chemical
|> : name for Piracetam. What exactly do I have here?
|> :                                                     Therion
|> 
|> Are you sure that was the combination. A pain-killer called APCs used to be
|> commonly used - much less so these days.
|> 
|> It consisted of aspirin, phenacetin and caffeine.


Much more likely that it contained Paracetamol which is a very common
pain killer here in England. It is sold over the counter.


-- 
Doug Clinton				Alex Technologies Ltd,
dec@alex.com				32A The Mall, Ealing
					London, England, W5 3TJ

Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs
From: C599143@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Matthew Q Keeler de la Mancha)
Subject: Re: Clinton: "I am adamantly opposed to legalization of drugs!"
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 13:26:15 CDT

In article <67650@cup.portal.com>
atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman) writes:
 
>
>machman@milton.u.washington.edu (The Machman) writes:
>
>>As a supporter of his, I was disappointed in Clinton's response.  "The
>>criminal justice system saved my brother's life", indeed.  Many other
>>people's lives are being ruined by it and the civil courts.
>
>>My only sense of comfort with Clinton on this issue is that he is young.
>>Perhaps he can change his attitude over time.  It depends a great deal on
>>the social climate.  If Clinton took less than a hard-line stance against
>>"the evils of drugs", he would not be elected.  That is not his fault,
>>it is society's.
>
>
>                "Never give a sucker an even break."
>
>                                --P.T. Barnum
>
>
>    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
>---------------------------+----------------------------------------
>  atfurman@cup.portal.com  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
elect text a (bottom
 
 
Supreme Court justices will probably be
replaced over the course of the next four years.
I am now obligated to vote against immediate national well-being
in order to protect long term well-being.  I cannot vote for a Bush-defined
Judicial branch.  While Bush would be better for the economy, he would
destroy the civil liberties protected by the Supreme Court.  As dissappointing
as it is, I now _have_ to vote for Clinton.  Economic crap fluxuates and
eventually there is recovery.  Supreme court decisions last godawful long.
(Morreau and Perot will not win, so a vote for either is like voting for
Bush by default.)
I am, of course willing to be convinced otherwise. :)
ap
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: talking to kids
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:34:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <1992Oct7.214221.16595@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> brooks@ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin D Brooks) writes:
>
>I had a friend in high school whose parents allowed him to smoke pot at home
>so they would know he wasn't out driving with a bunch of drunk buddies.  This
>makes sense to me, but is a tough call as a parent, especially during a war.
>A parent can't really stop kids from doing what they are going to do behind
>their backs anyway.  I'm taking a chance that I can avoid some tough calls
>by my kids not making me have to deal with them, but if I do have to, I will
>take the protective approach by steering my kids towards non dangerous
>recreational activities.  I like the common idea of a pact saying that "I
>won't yell at you for calling me for a ride instead of driving home drunk".
>I hope I have the guts to say "get all A's and B's, stay out of trouble, and
>I won't have a fit if I see blood shot eyes occasionally.  We'll see.
>
>Kevin Brooks

	My school doesn't want parents to let their kids drink alcohol at
home, and so that they'd end up going out and driving and drinking with
their "buddies." The school is more interested in "image" than helping
people..

-- 
Sameer_Parekh zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM zane@infopls.chi.il.us
PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM   | Specialization is for insects
Anonymous mail to ap.2363@cupid.sai.com |   - Robert A. Heinlein
Sat Oct 10 13:33:14 1992 US Debt: $4,090,359,534,751 Per capita: $16,006
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Subject: Re: Marijuana Myths (repost)
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:13:11 GMT

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>: This is a myth only where Ganja is decriminalized. As long as pot is
>: illegal, it is most definitely a gate-way drug because it introduces
>: one to the illegal underground. 

>Bah! So does drinking milk as a baby. Maybe we should prohibit that,
>as well.

What?  I don't know where you got your milk as an infant Bill,
but I certainly didn't buy mine from any illegal underground.  8-)

I wasn't that connected.

Jim D
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:17113 alt.psychoactives:1374
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: Terence McKenna and Timewave Zero
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:17:06 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1992Oct14.091202.18270@samba.oit.unc.edu> Mitchell.Porter@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mitchell Porter) writes:
>Is McKenna on the net? Has anyone tried his "Timewave Zero" software?
>Is it available on the net somewhere?
---
	What is it?
--
 --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
 work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
 any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: [anonymous] MJ Prices
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:36:50 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Keywords: anonymous

In article <1992Oct12.170855.12442@u.washington.edu> ap.5452@cupid.sai.com writes:
>
>Talking with some friends this week, they informed me of a couple of
>things:
>
>1) joints were running about  each.

	Please don't use dollar signs in anonymous posts, because you lose
characters that way.
-- 
Sameer_Parekh zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM zane@infopls.chi.il.us
PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM   | Specialization is for insects
Anonymous mail to ap.2363@cupid.sai.com |   - Robert A. Heinlein
Fri Oct 16 17:14:58 1992 US Debt: $4,097,874,047,300 Per capita: $16,033
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo)
Subject: Re: MJ in bloodstream
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:00:43 GMT

spmorgan@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au (Stephen Morgan) writes:

>Roughly how long does marijuana stay in the bloodstream?
>ie How long is it traceable for after the last use?

Considering the fat-soluble THC molecule is tracable in urine for 
approximately 30 days after use, it is arguable it is in the bloodstream
for that long. It is stored in fat cells otherwise. 

Now I'm curious about something. Since THC will have to travel via the
bloodstream to be excreted in the uring, what molecule does it bind 
with to make the transport? I mean, being as it's hydrophobic, it wouldn't
exactly just 'float around.' Does it bind with albumin or something generic
like that?

If I'm making any mistakes in my reasoning, I know that there are some 
users I can count on to make that fact painfully obvious. Hence, I'm not
worried about my mistakes influencing others.

John Rescigno
Dept of Psychology
Clarkson University
Nowhere, NY

Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.elections
From: jwh@citi.umich.edu (Jim Howe)
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Civil Liberties and Drugs
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 10:12:19 EDT
Organization: IFS Project, University of Michigan
Reply-To: jwh@citi.umich.edu
Keywords: New-Speak

In article <1992Oct8.204658.11871@newstand.syr.edu>, greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct7.231320.15616@u.washington.edu> batboy@carson.u.washington.edu (Thomas Radke) writes:
|> >
|> >The BoR was written that way for a reason.  No one should be kept from
|> >doing whatever they want, as long as they don't do it to others.  Ie drugs.
|> >It also means, you can't force a private citizen to hire anyone they do
|> >not wish to hire.  If i had more time I'd go off.  But I don't.
|> 
|> I guess you agree, then, that employers are entitled to require sexual favors
|> in order to grant employment, that they should freely be able to discriminate
|> on any basis, including race, color, creed, religion, etc., and that they
|> should be able to use public whippings as a disciplinary measure (provided
|> that their employess agree to this upon being hired--of course, they won't
|> be hired if they don't agree...)
|> 

And just how many employees do you think would work for a company that
did these sorts of things?  How long do you think the company would
stay in business?  All the things you mention would have a severely
negative impact on the costs of operation of the business.  The company
wouldn't last long, unless they got protection from the government.


James W. Howe                  internet: jwh@citi.umich.edu
University of Michigan             uucp: uunet!mailrus!citi.umich.edu!jwh
Ann Arbor, MI   48103-4943         
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Subject: Re: [anonymous] Vit K
Keywords: anonymous
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:22:22 GMT

ap.1060@cupid.sai.com (Anonymous) writes:
>	Hi! Just thought I'd impart my experience with said substance.
>First, a prepared solution seems to be safe for im injection. We were
>concerned about salinity and ph, but though they were not right, no
>adverse effects were noticed. Second, we were told that subcutaneous
>would have similar distribution as im but would be even safer. No
>problems here either. Third, we kept the stuff frozen on solid CO2
>but the one dose that sat out for 120 minutes was inactive. In other
>words, the material seems to decompose over a matter of HOURS. Fourth,
>we at first took only small doses so as to become familiar with the
>administration and experience, and thereby limit the probability of
>killing oneself. No deaths noticed, but, low doses of this substance
>are pretty useless as a psychoactive tool. The experience was comparable
>to dizziness/disorientation that lasts 45-90 min. Unfortunately, the 
>larger doses were the doses that were left out so died. 
>	Sooooo, low doses are obnoxious more than useful, so I recommend
>not even going through the effort unless you are prepared to partake of
>a full dosage. But I guess I'd say that about many substances.

	Sounds like you got ripped off.  You injected some vials of
toilet water or something.  Good thing you didn't get any infections
and I hope you didn't spend too much money.

>	While I'm on that subject, let me comment for followups, my
>observation that many naturally derived substances have only minor effects
>so I do not favor them as much as the more potent comercially occuring
>variations. But then I realize, Hey, if I tried to extract LSD, I'd 
>probably be pretty disappointed in the results, too. So now I try to be
>a little more open-minded and forgiving when snarfing a mug of bile-tasting
>bark, root, or grub extract makes me more queezy than enlightened.

	Pica?
>				-deadwolfkeiner

Jim Del Vecchio
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: bagg@ellis.uchicago.edu (matthew john baggott)
Subject: Re: Absinthe
Reply-To: bagg@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:07:28 GMT


Someone wrote:

>> Absinthe is a tincture of Wormwood mixed with an alcoholic beverage,
>> traditionally anisette.  It was popular in the 19th century in France 
>> among poets and other bohemians--Rimbaud blew his mind from it; he was
>> an imbecile by his twenties because of absinthe abuse.  (Dead by his
>> thirties.) 
>> The effects, I hear, are basically narcotic (like codeine) with some
>> minor psychedelic effects.  However, wormwood is toxic.  The toxic dose
>> is not much more than the dose at which any effect happens, so it is
>> dangerous.  Absinthe became illegal for good reason.  I would advise 
>> you to stay away from it.

Actually, absinthe's reputation is a bit overblown.  The turpenes which
are supposed to be intoxicating are probably not in high enough 
concentrations to have a pharmacological effect.  The real active
component is just plain ol alcohol.  Now, back when it was hip in
France, various unpleasant things were substituted in the drink to
give it its characteristic color.  So adulterants and substitute
ingredients might also have contributed to the alcohol-induced toxicity
in the past.

    --Matt

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mike J. Brown)
Subject: Re: LSD Flashbacks?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:20:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.190015.19885@resumix.portal.com> ganz@resumix.portal.com (
Jonathan Ganz) writes:
>In article <ringo.718380981@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> you write:
>>things. I mean, the walls aren't really doing THAT while you're tripping,
>>you're taking old, pedestrian sensory input and doing something different
>>with it.
>>As for walls breathing, your visual system, while quite nice, is way
>>imperfect. Your brain has always told you to 'ignore what isn't happenning.'
>>But since you've eaten acid, and have been trained to attune to the trippy
>>things going on around you, what's to stop you from attuning to them when
>>you're not under the influence.
>
>John, this is all well and good if you insist (rather stiffly) that
>the walls are in fact not breathing.  What if they are and the LSD
>allows you to see it under its special circumstances....you see the
>paradigm shift I take it.
>
>My experience is that this is a pretty strange world and there's
>no sure way of telling what's what except by general agreement.

Well, I noticed that the motion of objects was directly related to the
play of light and shadow on them.  I would sense alternating depth and
relief on shadows on the walls; the walls would ebb and flow in waves
that weren't random.  They moved in repeating patterns if the shadows
remained fixed.  The high points and low points were the brightest and
darkest spots on what was under 'normal' perception a plain wall.
I stopped filtering out / igoring / being attuned to   the shadows on
the wall and allowed my perception of the shape of the wall to flux
around the now very noticeable shadows.  The shadows were real; the
motion and shape was not.  Or was it?

Hmmmm....

Mike
-- 
Mike Brown
mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"The Universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter."
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.elections
From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
Subject: Re: [Republicans] On Civil Liberties and Drugs
Keywords: New-Speak
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 20:46:58 EDT

In article <1992Oct7.231320.15616@u.washington.edu> batboy@carson.u.washington.edu (Thomas Radke) writes:
>
>The BoR was written that way for a reason.  No one should be kept from
>doing whatever they want, as long as they don't do it to others.  Ie drugs.
>It also means, you can't force a private citizen to hire anyone they do
>not wish to hire.  If i had more time I'd go off.  But I don't.

I guess you agree, then, that employers are entitled to require sexual favors
in order to grant employment, that they should freely be able to discriminate
on any basis, including race, color, creed, religion, etc., and that they
should be able to use public whippings as a disciplinary measure (provided
that their employess agree to this upon being hired--of course, they won't
be hired if they don't agree...)


>Think.

Good suggestion.


-- 
J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
(I like to put 'greeny' here, 
but my d*mn system wants a 
*real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
From: Marc_North@mindlink.bc.ca (Marc North)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: LSD-25
Date: 9 Oct 92 06:52:55 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> st1qb@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <1992Oct9.051050.10570@menudo.uh.edu>
> Posted: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 05:10:50
>
> Org.  : University of Houston
>
> In article <dlaird.1qxc@terapin.com>, dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird)
> writes:
> >I was wondering if anyone knew (or could hazard a guess) to determine if
> any
> >effects can be felt using quarter or half hits of LSD?...I'm considering
> trying
> >some (on the acclaims of a friend), but I don't want the full-blown
> experience
> >yet (so...I'm a wimp, sue me).
> >
> Well, from what I know, taking half hits still gives you some effects
> of LSD from a whole hit.  The main difference I noticed was that your
> hallucinations are not as intense which is the best part!  You trip
> for a little shorter but not much and you dont have the hour or two
> period in which you lose reality.  Anyway, if it is your first time,
> yea, take only a half and see how you like it.  And just remind yourself
> awhole can be much more intense, exciting, and enjoyable!


... And I would only want to add that for some people (perhaps most?) the
taking of larger doses tends to alter the effect altogether in comparison to
a small dosage. Yes, what you experience on a half is intensified on a whole
or more, but I'd say it's safe to say that you will experience things
completely differently.

And one MORE note, it's safe to also say that your body mass will affect how
potent a dose you can take to experience a "limited trip". Dr. Hofmann notes
in his book that the average dosage ratio is 1 - 3 micrograms per kilogram.
As to the potency (micrograms per hit) of street acid... well.. your mileage
WILL vary.


--
Marc North  --  The Lanceholder's Group
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,bionet.neuroscience,sci.bio,sci.med
From: bagg@ellis.uchicago.edu (matthew john baggott)
Subject: Re: Affecting hallucinations via other drugs
Reply-To: bagg@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:47:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.005354.29091@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu () writes:

>From what I've gathered from Akhron Daruahl's book "A History of Secret 
>Societies" the "assassins" were a major power well after Marco Polo's voyage.
>In fact, from what I gather, the assassins were a major power during the
>crusades & this interaction of cultures is where we get out information on
>this interesting group. 
>Also, his account agrees with "Polo's" (If indeed Marco Polo did give an
>account of them; I thought Polo went to china...). Seems to me that the
>history of the Assassins is pretty well verified..

A great book on the subject with its own poetic and heretical perspective 
(and annotated bibliography) is Peter L. Wilson's _Scandal: Essays in Islamic 
Heresy_.

>-Scott

    --Matt

Newsgroups: alt.drugs