HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:35:48 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Tim Smith writes:
>
> There is a very nice example on the CP main just east of Field, B.C.
> This is probably the Kicking Horse pass tunnel that another reader
> mentioned.  The tunnel does at least 270 degrees, maybe more.  There
> is/was a lookout just off the Trans-Canada Highway from which you
> could observe both portals of the tunnel.
>
> Last I saw this was in 1985, and had the pleasure of seeing an 80+
> car westbound (down) train loop under itself.  I think I remember
> hearing that either that line or just the tunnel has been abandoned.
> Or perhaps it was just that VIA doesn't run passenger trains through
> it any more.  Steve Hooper probably knows the facts.


I'll try :)

No, they are still in use.  I say THEY, because there is TWO tunnels.  One
which bores into Mount Cathedral, and the other into Mt. Ogden.  They sort of
look like this (putting on my ASCII painting smock).

                 ==
                (  )
                 ============
                   =
                   =
======================
                   (  )
                    ==


Ooooh, that's pretty poor.  Anyway, they were constructed in I believe
approx. 1920ish to replace a "temporary grade" known as the Big Hill.  It was
4% and was installed temporarily when the railhead was constructed in 1886.
It lasted over 20 years until the Spiral Tunnels were built.  The amazing
thing is that when they bored these tunnels, they were off on one tunnel by 1
and 1/2 feet when the two ends connected, and 6 inches on the other.  Not bad
for the technology back then eh?

Oh yeah, they are still the mainline of the CPR, and no, the VIA "Canadian"
does not run on this track anymore.


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
From: macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Alcos, GG1's, etc.
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:23:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Dec17.082548.19530@pbs.org> btiffany@pbs.org writes:

>When I worked for the SP in West Oakland Yard I often parked my car right by
>the track where they backed one of the SAN JOAQUINs in, and often left an
>F40 idling on it.  The turkeys usually left it in high idle, so I'd clamber up
>into the cab and turn it down to low idle to save fuel.  Even in low idle I

I hope that the train wasn't too busy... an F40PH has to run at (I believe) fifth
notch or more to keep the Head End Power system running.  SO, if you bring it 
down to idle, all of the trains electricals (AC, heat, lights, power vestibule 
doors, etc), all GO DEAD.  I hope you weren't doing something this stupid
without knowing what you were doing.

Den
-- 
==========================================================================
  Dennis Lippert   -   macman+@pitt.edu    or    macman@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
The "Mac Maniac" operator at the Sutherland Hall Lab - Univ. of Pittsburgh
                             "Just the Macs, Man"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer)
Subject: Re: SP radio frequencies
Organization: Specialix Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:00:51 GMT
Keywords: Amtrak, Southern Pacific

bunce@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

>Hello net land.

>In preparation for my business trip via Amtrak from Houston to San Jose, I have
>found that the Sunset Limited from Houston to LA and the Coast Starlight from
>LA to San Jose will be on Southern Pacific the whole way. I have a bunch of
>frequencies from some railfans in the Houston area, but only 2 of the 12 have
>any remarks as to what they are used for. The list follows:

The SP uses 160.32 as road channel in the SF Bay Area.  The other SP
road freq is 161.55.  Those are the main ones you'll need.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: vlcek@mtl.mit.edu (Jim Vlcek)
Subject: Re: CMStP&P RR
Organization: Milwaukee Road Railfans
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 09:00:51 GMT

From Jim Scribbins' book "Milwaukee Road Remembered":

The LaCrosse and Milwaukee Railroad, built between those two cities in
the 1850s, became the Milwaukee and St. Paul Railroad in the early
1860s.  It acquired the Milwaukee and Mississippi Railroad, the first
railroad in Wisconsin, and reached St. Paul in 1867.

On February 1, 1873, the road opened a line to Chicago.  (I believe
that it did not build this line itself, but acquired another railroad
to make its entrance to Chicago.  Anybody know the name of this road,
and when it was built?)  "A year later", Scribbins says, "the railway
added `Chicago' to its name".  It was now the Chicago, Milwaukee and
St. Paul Railroad; the familiar tilted rectangle made its first
appearance sometime during that decade as well.

[As an aside, I'm currently reading a book about James J. Hill, which
talks a fair bit about the powerful position that the M&StP/CM&StP
occupied in the 1870s, being the first railroad to link Chicago and St
Paul.  It makes a strong case that, had the Milwaukee completed its
Pacific extension in the 1880s instead of waiting twenty years, IT
would have prevailed rather than Hill's Great Northern.]

The costs of the Pacific coast extension (completed in 1909), the
subsequent electrification of 660 miles of rail, and of the
acquisition of some coal roads in Illinois and Indiana, put the
CM&StP into bankruptcy in 1925.  It was reorganized as the Chicago,
Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific in January 1928, and remained so named
(through yet another bankruptcy in 1935) untils its demise in 1985.

On a personal note, this was my favorite railroad as a boy growing up
in north suburban Chicagoland.  A friend and I used to ride our bikes
to Rondout, where the branch through Fox Lake to Madison split off
from the main, and where the Milwaukee's double main crossed the
Elgin, Joliet & Eastern's double main in a quad diamond over which the
Hiawathas once passed at 100mph.

We were just in time to see the last of the Hiawathas (the morning
trains, 5 and 6) before the advent of Amtrak, a few rare F-units still
wearing the orange & maroon color scheme, and Fairbanks-Morse units
all over the place.

It was a fun railroad.  Too bad it's gone.

Jim Vlcek
molly!vlcek@epimbe.com
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tunnel Motors
Date: 17 Dec 92 08:34:28 EST
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <6092@sumax.seattleu.edu>, daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman) writes:
> What do y'all think?
> 
> John Eickerman                  **Attention Colorado**
> daveike@seattleu.edu        Everyone deserves equal rights

Everyone *has* equal rights.

But no one group deserves *special* rights and privileges.

-- Bruce Tiffany
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: preiser@cancer.unm.edu (Doug Preiser)
Subject: Re: SP radio frequencies
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 23:20:32 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: preiser@cancer.unm.edu

In article <1992Dec17.225624.7077@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, bunce@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>Hello net land.
>
>In preparation for my business trip via Amtrak from Houston to San Jose, I have
>found that the Sunset Limited from Houston to LA and the Coast Starlight from
>LA to San Jose will be on Southern Pacific the whole way. I have a bunch of
>frequencies from some railfans in the Houston area, but only 2 of the 12 have
>any remarks as to what they are used for. The list follows:
>
>161.550   Road 1
>161.310   
>161.280
>160.320   Tucson carmen
>160.950   PBX (Channel 3)
>160.980
>160.800
>160.890   PBX (Channel 2)
>160.160
>161.430   Houston Yard  also Tucson Shop
>161.415
>161.445

I also have
160.905  Phoenix piggyback
161.205  Police (Channel 4)
161.400  Special Agents (Channel 4)
>
>So my questions are; 
> 1. What are these freq used for?
> 2. What other freq may be used along the way?
> 3. If anyone has a timetable for SP, which freq. are used in which areas?
>
>My scanner is only 10 channels and I would like to eliminate channels that are
>not used in some areas, or are not really used at all.
>
>One other thing...  I calculated the distance and speed between stops for the
>Sunset and Coast Starlight based on the Amtrak timetable and have it in an
>Excel Spreadsheet if anyone wants it. If 5 or more ask I'll post it.
>A teaser: The avg speed is 47 mph for the 2093 mile trip (excluding stops and
>layovers), and the fastest portion is 70.8 mph for the 59 miles between Deming,
>NM and Lordsburg, NM.
>
>thanks, 
>
>Tom Bunce, Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.    (713) 333-7497 
>bunce@l14h13.jsc.nasa.gov -Flames don't bother me,  I'm a firefighter :-)

   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu
   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: daveike@sumax.seattleu.edu (Eickerman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Tunnel Motors
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:16:48 GMT
Organization: Seattle University


Some people mentioned the Tunnel Motors that DRG&W and SP bought.  What
amazes me is that they have cabs.  The theory is that they were designed
to be used in the back of a consist of locos, thus they wouldn't need a
cab.  I have also seen pictures of SD40T-2s leading the pack of 'normal'
locomotives through tunnel country.  It would seem logical to save money
and not put the cab on or the controls, and just make it a B unit.

What do y'all think?

John Eickerman                  **Attention Colorado**
daveike@seattleu.edu        Everyone deserves equal rights
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: GG0.5 et al
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:41:30 GMT

 I found a big pile of 20 to 30 year old Trains magazines today. That
kept me busy for a while. It also turned up a few follow ups to some
long threads I have seen.

In the April, 1971 issue of Trains, in the RR News Photo section, they
have two pictures of the 1/2 GG1. Part of the caption read, "One half of
GG! 4848 emerged from the PC shops at Wilmington, Del."... So I guess
this puts a date on the mysterious engine. 

 The other thing that caught my attention was the introduction of Rail
Pax's new name, Amtrak. A consulting firm decided that Rail Pax was just
not catchy enough and simply concatinated America and Track in such a
way that would be recoginizable and catchy.



   p_n__n__----- _______             zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu
  d ___--__| HH||       `---.      zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
  _T-------'___-|___________|
 'o=o ()()()--'  o=o`---'o=o               Benn Coifman
          - NP 328 -                 

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: bjork@telebit.com (Steven Bjork)
Subject: Re: SP radio frequencies
Keywords: Amtrak, Southern Pacific
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:21:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.225624.7077@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>,
 bunce@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

>frequencies from some railfans in the Houston area, but only 2 of the 12 have
>any remarks as to what they are used for. The list follows:
>
>161.550   Road 1
>161.310
>161.280
>160.320   <- road freq for SF Bay Area
>160.950   <- PBX
>160.980
>160.800
>160.890   <- PBX
>160.160
>161.430   Houston Yard
>161.415
>161.445

You should add:

161.10   <- Warm Springs yard, also BN road

>My scanner is only 10 channels and I would like to eliminate channels that are
>not used in some areas, or are not really used at all.

I'd put in road freqs (they vary somewhat per division) and
the PBX channels. Sometimes crews use PBX to get DTC block
authority rather than using the road channel, thus giving
the impression of "silent running."

If I wasn't traveling I'd add the yard channels for my area,
and perhaps one the bulls use too :).

--Steven
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Talking Detectors
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:24:18 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com


I have several questions regarding railroad track detectors. My local
timetable mentions three kinds: talking, non-talking, and talk on  
defect only. Since I know nothing about this topic also I'm going to ask
for some more help from fellow netters:

1. Talking Detectors: I assume they talk by broadcasting on a specific
   frequency. What is this frequency? Does it vary or always the same.
   My timetable makes no mention of how to listen in.

2. Non-Talking: How do they communicate? Could I assume via a wire
   to the dispatcher?

3. What kinds of items do they report? I've heard of hot-box, items 
   hanging, etc.. Are there others?


4. How would I recognize one if I stumbled along the tracks and hit one?
   Do they all have a similar shape, etc..? 

Any information would be appreciated. I'd like to thank all the
knowledgeable folks out there who always chime in and help me out. As a
beginning railfan I find your posts to be worth a lot. I have a large
folder of them and am thinking about penning a "Railfanning Starters
Guide" someday soon (perhaps this winter).


( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^


Xref: sparky rec.railroad:9855 rec.models.railroad:2684
From: msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
Subject: Re: diesel terminology questions
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:48:34 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS

smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes:

>What are ``lift rings'' used to lift?

"Lift rings" are actually used to lift the locomotive.  They are chassis
hardpoints that allow a traveling overhead crane to pick the loco up
and move it about. 
-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
From: raveling@Unify.com (Paul Raveling)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Reply to Wes Barris (re: tender)
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:25:09 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)


	My email reply bounced with too many hops someplace, so someone
	enroute probably has a fresh sendmail.cf bug.  Here's what bounced...

> |> 
> |> 	SP has declined to move our replacement tender for 2-6-0 No. 1771
> |> 	down from Dunsmuir...the air brakes were last serviced 16 years
> |> 	ago!  Hopefully, we can truck it down late this week.
> 
> Is the replacement tender being taken from engine number 1727, an SP
> 2-6-0?  If so, what is going to happen to the rest of the engine?  I have
> 1727 listed as being in a ball park in Dunsmuir.  Do you have any more
> inforamation on either engine?

	No, the replacement tender doesn't belong to 1727  --  it's one
	that SP had converted for use as an oil tank.

	Unfortunately today and tomorrow are days off for Roger Titus,
	our chief ranger, information broker, and resident of Dunsmuir.
	The rest of us don't claim to be knowledgable about Dunsmuir,
	but we think 1727 remains on display there.

	I don't think restoration work on 1771 has resumed yet, but
	will check further after the holidays.  In any case the replacement
	tender still hasn't come down from Dunsmuir.


------------------
Paul Raveling
Raveling@Unify.com
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Subject: Re: The value (if any) of B units
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:51:49 GMT

Calvin Henry-Cotnam (cal@ee.ryerson.ca) wrote:
: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
: >bill@hpcndaw.CND.HP.COM (Bill Kepner) writes:
: >> It seems every couple years somebody looking at reducing costs revists the
: >> B unit concept.  ....  [other details deleted]
: >
: >How about if a RR ordered some A units with a shell cab (no gauges, no con-
: >trol equipment, no seats, etc.) for MU operation only?  These ersatz B units 
: >would be cheaper and have a higher power-to-weight ratio than normal A units.
: >If later on the RR wanted them to live out their declining years as A units, 
: >they could buy the necessary equipment from the factory or (better yet) can-
: >nibalize damaged A units or ones with blown or worn-out engines.
: 
: I recently read somewhere (will post if I can find it) that one railroad
: recently ordered some new units "cabless".  The article mentioned that
: not having a cab cut the cost of the new unit by something like seventy
: thousand dollars!
: 
: I'm searching for the artile to get the who's, why's and how muches.
: 
: 
: Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting stangely..."
: Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto

     Santa Fe ordered 23 GP60B units, delivered in late summer of '91,
numbered 325-347.  For the cost of 20 cab-equipped units, GM was able to
build 23 without cabs.

     UP is converting some SD40-2's and C30-7's to B's.  I believe they
are removing the plows, horns, and seats, with a sign on each door stating
that noone is to ride in the cab.  The road number is prefixed with a 'B',
and I don't know what UP considers a candidate for a B unit, as the road
numbers seem to be fairly random (some newer, some older).

John
--
*****************************************************************************
| John Mosbarger          |    You know why many people commit suicide      |
|                         |    during the holidays?  It's because they're   |
| HP McMinnville, OR      |    forced to spend time with their relatives.   |
|                         | 	                  --John Belushi            |
| johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com |                     	                    |
|***************************************************************************|
|                     Opinions are mine and mine alone.                     |
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pop@cs.umass.edu ( Robin Popplestone )
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Diesel Multiple Units
Summary: Where are self-propelled diesel trains in the US?
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:06:16 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Originator: pop@roo.cs.umass.edu

A ubiquitous, if not always greatly loved, feature of the less-metropolitan
reaches of European railways  for the last two  thirds of this century  has
been the practice  of putting  passengers and a  diesel engine  in the  one
vehicle. Instances have  ranged from  the adapted buses  of the  Co.Donegal
Joint Railway to the  flying Hamburger of pre-war  Germany to the  recently
introduced class 158 of  British Rail. They  offer better acceleration  and
various operating economies, being easily be  split for off-peak use or  to
serve more than  one destination (e.g.  Fort William and  Oban on the  West
Highland Line). I believe  that the BR 156/158  classes can be divided  and
recombined from the cab.  Engine noise is reasonably  subdued on the  class
158 at  least. The  hill-climbing  capability of  these machines  has  been
exploited to save costs in the occasional reinstatement of derelict routes.

Every time I  sit in a  MBTA commuter train  of an evening,  two thirds  of
which is not in off-peak use, I wonder why, in this most  under-electrified
of rail systems, the self-propelled diesel train is apparently extinct. Can
anybody enlighten me?

Robin Popplestone
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Aldwych (London) tube
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 21:05:55 GMT

> A previous post stated that the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly tube
> line in London was built as a single track.  According to "The Story of
> London's Underground", ...

>   "The Great Northern, Piccadilly & Brompton Railway was an amalgamation
>   of the Brompton & Piccadilly Circus Railway, authorized in 1897, and 
>   the Great Northern & Strand Railway, authorized in 1899. Powers to
>   combine the schemes were obtained in 1902, including the building 
>   of a connecting line from Piccadilly Circus to a junction with the 
>   Great Northern & Strand at Holborn to give a through route between
>   the two railways.

Yet another component of the amalgamation was the western continuation
from, um, South Kensington to Hammersmith.  This was originally proposed
as part of the (Metropolitan) District Railway's proposal for an express
tube line (the "deep level District") under their existing route.  The
right to construct that much of it was transferred to the Piccadilly
project, and the lines were aligned so as to provide for an eventual
junction with the DLD at South Kensington.  But the Piccadilly took
enough traffic from the District that the DLD was never needed.

> This left the part of the Great Northern & Strand
> between Holborn and the Strand (Aldwych) as a double-track branch line,
> which it still remains, though only one track is in use." 

Well, it remains a double tunnel; I'm pretty sure that I've read that the
tracks in the second tunnel were removed long ago.  What has always been
single track, though, is the *connection* from the branch to the main
Piccadilly line.  Since through trains from the branch to the main line
were rare in the early days (I think there was just one a day, one way)
and nonexistent after a few years, a single-track connection has always
been adequate.

On another Underground topic -- it was actually an amputee that they
hired to ride the escalators, not a blind man.  Those early escalators
didn't have the comb end and so required passengers to get on and off
at the *side*, so they did require a bit more dexterity than today's.

All this from memory, but I know it well.
-- 
Mark Brader		    "[It] was the kind of place where they spell
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto	     trouble TRUBIL, and if you try to correct them,
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com     they kill you."	-- Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid

This article is in the public domain.