From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: paganism a religion.. <rant warning>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 07:50:58 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

> sj1s+@andrew.cmu.edu ("Sherrianne M. Johnson") writes:
> : 
> :    Hmm.  I was not aware that all pagans, to be pagans, must believe in
> : a god/goddess, or deity.  I do not think that this is a fair judgement. 
> : I do not fit into any religious system, whether it be Christian, Wiccan,
> : or Moslem.  I feel a very spiritual tie with the earth, and nature, and
> : am very ready to follow that and try to become rather a healer (both of
> : the earth and of humankind).  I enjoy rituals, herbalism, and various
> : other activities which are often thought of as "pagan", or so I thought.
> 
> You are correct. Donal has a definition that is more exclusionary than 
> that of many/most who post here - and appears to be very dogmatic about
> that definition. I far prefer your inclusive attitude - it does not set
> up an atmosphere of "us vs them".

Thanks, Bill. I was not aware that I was defining pagan, or Pagan. As 
you are apparently struggling through some very old feed, I will ignore 
the fact that I have answered Sherrianne's post before. Let me set 
some things straight, and do some defining. To me, Paganism refers to 
a number of specific, usually matri-focal, Earth Goddess religions of 
pre-christian Europe. Some would expand this to include all 
pre-christian religions such as the AmerIndian "Sacred Path", but I 
call that Shamanism. Note here that Shamanism and Paganism have many 
similarities and overlap, but then so do Islam and Christianity. Noone 
has tried to say that they are the same thing. Shamanism is more of a 
tribal wisdom thing (again, this is IMHO). To me Shamanism is closer 
to mainstream religions, in that it is 'interpreted' through a 'holy 
man' who speaks to the Gods for us. This does not mean that 
individuals cannot, just that they have other things to do.

Now, Neo-Paganism, on the other hand, is to me a broad set of 
Earth concious philosophies including what Sherrianne professes. I 
would call her a Neo-Pagan, or New Ager, but not Pagan. Now, these are 
my own definitions, and of course have absolutely no hold or even 
meaning to her, she will make her own definitions (we all do) but this 
is the general understanding I have been working with. Neo-Paganism is 
a world-view and a lifestyle, Paganism a group of pre-christian 
religions, and Shamanism a tribal-based religion.

Please pardon the occaisonally rambling aspect of this post, but I am 
no writer, and tend to post 'train of thought' and, as my thoughts 
roam, so do my posts!

> 
> :     You say that you feel threatened on this newsgroup of showing your
> : faith and discussing your deities.  If the move that you would make
> : (making this ONLY a religious newsgroup) is implemented, then I will
> : feel the same way.  I may be able to observe, and read posts as I have
> : been, but it seems that I would be the one slammed if I dared to post
> : from my "atheist" point of view.  This doesn't seem fair to me.
> : 
> : Am I wrong?  Are there other people who identify as pagans out there who
> : feel as I do?  Or should I stop posting right now?
> 
> As you have seen from my postings - I agree 100%. But then, I have always
> welcomed even Christian postings - if they were reasoned and not just a
> lot of dogmatic noisemaking. I personally welcome input/comments from all
> believe systems - both religious and non-religious.

And of course I welcome Christians to post here, or on 
soc.religion.pagan (if we ever get it) but so long as they understand 
that the topic is Paganism, not their own attempts to convert us to 
Christainity. Such posts should be removed and such would be one of 
the few legitimate reasons for a moderator to remove a post to s.r.p


> : *sigh*  Maybe I should have posted this earlier, in the huge Pagan/pagan
> : debate...looked too hot for me...
> 
> Nah! Just a few of us arguing over trivial matters. I doubt seriously if it
> is going to have any great effect on the scheme of the universe.

True, but then neither does "Three's Company"... :)

--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan