HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Betting both sides to get Comps
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:12:21 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <JACOBS.92Aug19083429@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <183121@pyramid.pyramid.com> breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid) writes:
>>>
>>Yes, that's the ticket...what we really need is a "log optimal" roulette 
>>strategy.  It will be developed soon, not long after Steve Jacobs 
>>perfects the "log optimal" craps strategy (right after the "log optimal" 
>>BJ strategy is finished, sometime in the year 3067).
>
>Rather than jump all over Bill on this one, I'm going to pretend that
>I've already left for Vegas and that the article expired before my return.
>However, new readers should be warned that Bill can barely distinguish a
>logarithm from a biorythm, and his idea of "log optimal" is the shortest
>path from the wood pile to the fire.  As for the log optimal BJ strategy,
>I'll have that finished by 2067.  Easily.

Damn...busted!  I thought I could sneak in a little satire, cuz the 
net.cops were on convention, but NOOOOOO, they're phoning in their 
performances now!  

And they're wrong again...I always thought "log optimal" was 
"The Perfect Bathroom Experience(tm)".  

As for the log optimal strategy, I had to go ahead and calculate 
it myself, but that's what computers are for.  It doesn't have perfect 
pair splitting (or pair splitting at all yet, or perfect anything), but it 
does make pretty quick work of finding the log optimal play when 
you feed it a starting hand, dealer's up, count(bet) level, and bankroll 
size.  And it doesn't black out San Jose when I run it!
 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Betting both sides to get Comps
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:03:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.185011.11736@eng.umd.edu> moo@king.eng.umd.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.162035.16529@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
>
>>Once when I was in Vegas playing blackjack, I kept hearing roars
>>from a craps table.  I later found out that a guy won $100,000 or $200,000
>>or something in under an hour starting with just a couple hundred.
>>He couldn't have won that much without betting wildly. The casino
>>gave him a couple of security escorts (supposedly to protect
>>him but more likely to keep him from setting foot outside the casino),
>>no doubt a big suite, etc., all of which was probably way under the amount
>>the casino could afford to comp him considering the action, plus no doubt
>>the poor guy wound up with not a penny to his name a couple of days later,
>>getting the heave ho from the suite once the casino got what it wanted.
>
>Gosh, aren't you cynical. 
>
>What place was this? Caesars? The guy teaching craps at Caesars told the story
>of one hour & $170,000+ at a craps table. Plus the mythos (well, true) "One
>table will get hot every day ..."
>
>The casino can AFFORD to let the guy leave, even if he walks away with $200K.
>If you don't believe me, look at all the tottering senior citizens donating, er
>putting money in the slots one dollar at a time.

While they can AFFORD to let him leave, why would they want to?  They
have a high-roller on the hook, and can persuade him to do a lot more
gambling.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com

Coming soon in rec.gambling.math-weenies:  Why team play isn't as
valuable as you think.
From: hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: VP MATH:  Where's the analog to the BJ strategy tables?
Summary: Not VP SPELLING, that's entirely different
Keywords: video, poker
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:21:51 GMT
Organization: Twin Peaks Municipal Software Works


Sorry I won't be at the BARGE this weekend; I'll be doing Dallas.  Ahh, I mean,
nevermind.

But I do have a VP playing strategy question.  Are there any guidelines for how
to change playing strategy depending on jackpot size?

Assume you are playing an 8/5 progressive jackpot (for royal flush) machine.
You are playing MaxBets and are dealt K Q K Q 10, the last 3 cards suited.
It seems obvious to me that one discards the first K/Q and draws 2 to the
big jackpot.  What about K K K Q 10?  K Q K Q 9?  K K K Q Q?  K K K K Q?

Isn't it true that for each *winning* pat hand dealt there is a certain 
jackpot size that makes it worthwhile to pitch the winner and draw to the
royal flush?

Consider getting dealt K K K Q Q.  You can stand pat for a payoff of 8, or
draw 3 to a suited K Q in hopes of pulling a royal flush.  By my math (not
always correct) you have 1 chance in C(47,3) = 16215 of getting a royal flush,
therefore if the jackpot is greater than 16215 * 8 = 129720 MaxBets (unlikely) 
then you should draw to the royal.  Of course one really should consider the
effect of other draws and payoffs that could happen -- you might draw trips,
a straight, flush, full house (!) or other hands that pay off, thereby 
reducing the minimum jackpot required to play for the royal flush.

It seems such a strategy table would be a tedious but straightforward job to
produce.  Ultimately you should be able to use the results to tell you when a
progressive VP game is positive expectation.  Then you could start work on the
player's variance and bankroll requirements.  That would be something new! :-)
--
						"The Smart Money was on Goliath"
						John Hallyburton 43 55'N 71 45'W
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: darrenl@natinst.com (Darren Lilie)
Subject: Re: Best bets
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:48:16 GMT

In article <9208190216.AA21083@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Kent Y Hua <khua@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:
>Hello, I was wondering what is the best bet on the crap table?  Is there a suc 
>thing?  There are so many choices what is the best one?  Thanks in advance.
>
>
I believe the best bet is the dont pass and dont come bets and taking full
odds(at a table with up to 10x odds).  When I went several weeks ago to Vegas
I played dont pass and had 3 or 4 come bets also and I only took odds when 
the 4 and 10 came up and of the 5 times I went to the table, I never walked
away a loser.  I would usually bet $10 on the dont pass/dont come and then 
when 4 and 10 came up I would bet from 60 to 100 on the odds.  What I like     
about havng a lot of dont come bets is that with one 7 you can win them all.
On the pass line/come bets one 7 can wipe all your bets out.
Since I was winning a lot, I was tempted to play the field bet or the center
bets but I backed away knowing how bad the odds are on these bets.
 

Darren


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Blackjack in San Diego
In-reply-to: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu's message of 17 Aug 92 19:13:35 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<16otovINNscg@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:48:27

In article <16otovINNscg@network.ucsd.edu> erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin) writes:
[details of San Diego BJ with 50 cent house robbery deleted]
>
> What would be the smallest, yet most optimal bankroll to bank this game?
> Remember, ($25 max bet, was it 6 or 7 spots?)

Figuring 5 players with average bets of $10 each, the bank figures to
win 1% of the $50 total action.  This 50 cents is stolen by the casino,
leaving the banker to only break even.  Looks to me like banking this
game is even a losing proposition, unless you can get 6 other players
betting $25 each.  Then, you could net $1 win per hand.  Since you are
risking $150 per hand (ignoring doubles/splits) with about .66% overall
advantage, you need a bankroll of about $25,000 to be making Kelly optimal
wagers against the other players.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Never teach a card counter to sing.  It wastes your time and gets the card
 counter barred."
From: stantz@sgi.com (Mark Stantz)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: BARGE
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:24:36 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug14.123948.14380@nevada.edu> manray@nevada.edu (MIKE STEVENSON) writes:
>
>Another potential meeting area and
>out of the casino's "eye" could be a place called FatBurgers....newer neon
>looking joint between Aladin and the Trop... I was in there a while back and
>burgers were almost as good as those at the Hard Rock Cafe.  Just a thought.

	There are a bunch of little cafes in this place, including a 
New Orleans style place called 'Big Momma's' which is pretty good.  
Seating is spare and uncomfortable, but the price is right.

	-Mark
From: breid@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com (Bill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Betting both sides to get Comps
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:38:17 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <1992Aug12.015142.20273@nevada.edu> messiah@nevada.edu (MHW) writes:

[ in reference to proposition that casinos only comp big losers ]
>
>It's hard to answer that. I think your point is valid, but I also think the 
>casino factors in such intangibles as the effects of alcohol, emotions, 
>limited bankroll compared to the house, etc. into their hold. If the player
>has the "insurance" of (an)other person(s) balancing thier action out on the
>other side of the line then their risk will be vastly reduced. There's some
>merit to this, in fact the rec.gambling usenet group has had lengthy
>discusions on risk aversion before. 
>
Apparently in vain.  The fact that two individuals reduce their variance 
to "hustle" comps is irrelevant in the context of the very large 
bankroll the casino plays with.  With a bankroll this size, the only 
factor which really matters is expectation.  If the pit bosses possessed 
just a few more IQ points, they would not comp any Pass/Don't Pass bettors, 
irregardless of lack of "team play".  They should also willingly comp 
any player or team of players trying to "reduce variance" by taking 
any strange combination of bets on the field, as long as the bets had 
a healthy edge for the house.  

The fact of the matter is that pit bosses go through cycles of comps, aside  
from specific instruction to supply comps.  The cycles of comps come about 
because the boss signs for generous comps for a week, then gets dinged 
because his hold isn't high enough to cover the comps, so next week he 
turns into Scrooge, except for specific instructions to keep certain 
known "live ones" happy.  The cycle repeats itself when he is told to 
"pick up some more action" in his pit, due to a falloff in the drop.  

For BJ "investors", this knowledge is more important than all the 
"cover" and "variance-reduction" plays put together.  When the boss is 
happy, smiling, and handing out comps, in most cases his only operative 
mental process is that his butt hasn't been chewed in a while.  When his 
tail has some fresh spittle on it, you as player can assure yourself you 
are in for a VERY rough go of it.  The "intelligent" player reads the 
mood of the boss quickly, and remains or departs the table appropriately.
 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: marrone@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Michael Marrone)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Accokeek, MD trip report
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:00:28 GMT
Reply-To: mastrota@excalibur.itd.nrl.navy.mil
Distribution: usa

Despite the name this is not another Indian Reservation casino, it is in
fact a "charity" run Las Vegas night at the Accokeek, Maryland firehouse.
The casino is open Saturdays and Sundays only, but there are other firehouses
throughout southern Maryland doing the same thing on just about every other
night of the week.  
Anyway, the BJ conditions are very Atlantic City, with an 8D shoe with
about 70% penetration, double any 2, double any split, dealer stands S17.
Table limits were $2-$10, $3-$15, and $5-$25.  
Food is comp and drinks are cheap (75c).
They also have roulette and poker tables($2-$5-$5-$10).  The rake at the
poker tables seemed high, $3 + %5 of pot.  Is this high compared to LV?
Oh yeah, Carribean Stud poker was also offered.
I played BJ and poker and did pretty well, did not count at BJ although

you are free to play any betting strategy without fear of "heat"

xMike
.
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Blackjack in San Diego
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:13:35 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

In article <16om0dINNncj@network.ucsd.edu> leary@bozo.sdsc.edu. writes:
>I also checked out this game yesterday at around 1:00 p.m..  There
>were two tables operating, one with 5 players, the other with 3.
>The rules are so bad , particularly the 50-cent/hand collection,
>that the only possibly reasonable proposition is to bank the game.
>However, the banker must also pay the collection fee, but only
>at 50 cents per dealer hand, or about 10 cents per hand against
>each of 5 players.  Assuming a 3% player disadvantage, not counting
>the collection, the game would appear to become profitable for
>the banker at the rate of $17 action/round.  I watched for about
>an hour at the 5-player table, and the action appeared to average
>$30/round.  During this time, the bank netted about $40.  Interestingly,
>the banker does not need to be physically present at the table - he
>just leaves enough chips there and the house supplied dealer manages
>all the payouts.  At least at this table, none of the players indicated
>any interest in banking (according to the rules, the bank rotates
>at the end of each shoe among the players who want to bank), and the
>absentee banker held the bank for the entire time I was there.
>


What would be the smallest, yet most optimal bankroll to bank this game?
Remember, ($25 max bet, was it 6 or 7 spots?)
---Sean

-- 
"I believe in the rights of people to own firearms....  Private guns makes
every person equal, no matter what/who he/she is."	---Lu Gang, post-
doctoral student in Physics at the University of Iowa, who shot and killed two
of his professors, a rival post-doc, two staff, and then himself in 1991.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu (MHW)
Subject: Re: even bets question...
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:35:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.172257.19127@nevada.edu> messiah@nevada.edu (MHW) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.053256.29626@ichips.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>In article <JACOBS.92Aug13134021@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>>-In article <1992Aug12.175153.21702@redbrick.com> jfr@redbrick.com (Jon Rosen) writes:
>>-> In article <12913@inews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>->>In article <1992Aug11.054400.23686@redbrick.com> jfr@redbrick.com (Jon Rosen) writes:
>>->>>  Bill Friedman's book Casino Management (written in 1974,
>>->>
>>->>Is it in print?  Does it have an ISBN?  Can I get
>>->
>>-> Down Blair, down boy :-)  The ISBN is 0-8184-0151-6.  I have no idea
>>-
>>-It is listed in the GBC catalog, at least in the 1990 edition, at the
>>-low low price of just $125, but that price may have changed by now.
>>-Hey Blair, can I borrow your copy? :-)
>>
>>Borrow, hell!
>>
>>You can LEASE it, maybe...

>That book should be available under "Special Collections" at the Gaming
>Research Center of the University of Nevada Las Vegas library. They have
>tons of stuff there free of charge... you just have to read whatever it is
>that you're interested in, in the reserve room. There's BJ player's
>newsletters and BJ books, also oodles of stuff about Poker, sports betting,
>casino mgt, etc. The place is on the 4th floor.

I just did the telnet library to get the call # that ya have to present
to the person at the desk: HV6711 . F74 1982
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Big August rec.gambling excursion
Date: 12 Aug 1992 19:07:27 GMT
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston

In article <1992Aug12.173313.13551@walter.bellcore.com> Jonathan Rosenberg <jxr@thumper.bellcore.com> writes:
>By my count, there's at least 9 rec.gamblers (including me + some others
>who may want to remain nameless) who will be in LV sometime during the
>weekend of 8/22-23.

Jeez, the casinos better watch out, this could be as bad as when Ken
Uston hit town with his teams. :-)

>  Now, I really don't want to cut into my gambling
>time much (after all, I'll only be there for 5 days), but this seems
>like too good an opportunity to miss.  Obviously, copious use of the
>"Presto -- Frank Irwin" sign & counter-sign is recommended (did I get
>the counter-sign right?).
>
>But, 1 group "meeting" seems to be called for.  Anyone want to suggest a
>place (a craps table seems promising) & time (preferably a wee hour on
>Sunday morning, say)?
>
The Horseshoe might be a good place - we could retire to the restauraunt
for a Steak Dinner feast.  In addition, they have $1/10x craps.  Of
course, if the BJ weenies (I'm a semi-weenie :-), I play Craps also!)
object, perhaps we could meet at the Frontier for great BJ conditions.
If the Labourites object to the Frontier, we could meet at the El
Cortez, take over a BJ table, all change our bets at the same time, 
and all get barred at once!  Or we could all go to Vegas World.....

Seriously, I'd suggest the Horseshoe for Downtown or one of the medium
size places on the Strip (Maxim, Frontier, etc.).  I'd also prefer an hour 
closer to midnight than 5 AM.

I'll volunteer my wife to take blood pressures, do CPR and trauma care
if Steve J., Mike H., and Bill R. all end up in the same room at the same
time.
-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "No the game never ends when your whole
|       world depends on the turn of a friendly card"
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: I'm BARGEing!!! (maybe)
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:07:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


I just got the nod from the better half to go for it this weekend.
I realize that the timing is pretty tight, but if anyone has some
advice for getting into LV from the Bay Area, or wants to share a
room, or knows of good room deals, I'm all ears immediately.

Thanks for any help; it may make the difference in my going!

mpz
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: jim%apsicc.aps.edu@lynx.unm.edu (frost...)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm major / 9x21 reloading question
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:09:47 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center

In article <9208131249.aa11661@sco1.qdeck.com>, burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes...
#In article <1992Aug12.171430.22984@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
##
##So if you load a 9mm up super hot, in a special gun, it can equal a 
##38 Super... 
##
##...I wonder why not just get a .38 super for this purpose? 
##
##Is there something bad about the .38 Super that I am not aware of, or 
##is it simply consumer preference?    I know about the semi-rimmed nature
##of the cartridge, but to my knowlege it does not effect performance.
##
# 
#The 38Super is a straight wall case with a semi-rim.  In order for the 
#semiauto to feed reliably, the chamber must be tapered.  When you go to
#high pressures, BTW the 38Super has similar working pressures to the 9mm
#in high end loads, the Super case will bulge at the base.  You cane 
#either work thie brass repeatedly or risk feeding problems.  The straight
#wall case also allows more gas flow (and crud buildup) in the chamber by
#only gas sealing at the case mouth.  The taper case mated to tapered chamber,
#the lack of rim and lessened crud build up make the 9mm a better autoloader
#round.  It also seems that until the last couple of years, it was tough
#to get tough 38Super brass.  9mm carbine and milspec brass has alway been
#plentiful.
# 
#Bill	burge@qdeck.com
# 
A thought about the 9mm too. If you are shooting a hollow point at hot
pressures and faster than normal velocities you can expect that the ex-
pansion of the round will not be up to what the factory has projected.
Because of the higher velocities the 9mm may penetrate without expanding
or even disintegrate upon impact with much less effect than you wanted
originally.
======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    jim@apsicc.aps.edu
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager 
======================================================================
From: rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Thanks
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:02:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Thanks to all who responded to my FAQ. I really enjoyed the
reasoning and factual info provided and have made my decision
based mostly on that input. So, now I ask, what's the difference
between a S&W 586/686 that was so highly recommended, and the
S&W Model 19? Or for that matter, the real differences between
similar model .357's. Is it basically the comfort level I feel
as I handle each weapon or should I pay more attention to things
like trigger-pull pressure, weight, etc.?

If anyone would like, I can e-mail the responses I received
directly to them, since I'm sure no one would like a 500 line
file cluttering up the bandwidth. And just because I decided on
the .357 doesn't mean you will; there are some good arguments
for the 9mm. In my choice though, I've got to admit that the
idea of a semi-auto with x-number of safeties, a possible live round
in the chamber at any time bothers me as someone who has limited
experience with handguns. 9mm will be my next purchase after I'm comfortable
with the .357. For now I'll stick to the Elmer Fudd philosophy on
gun safety: I can swing open the cylinder and safely say "Wook, no
mowe buwetts." Thanks again.

Bob
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Action Ears: What Do Users Think?
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:33:49 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <11670@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:

}These are supposed to make it possible to hear speech just fine, with
}complete suppression of loud noises (like gunshots).  Does anyone
}have experience using these gadgets?  Do they work well?  I can buy
}them for about $60, so it's very tempting IF THEY WORK WELL.

$60 is the cheapest I've seen for such.  Prices range up to about $250 for
Ayoob's "Wolf Ears"(tm).  The key question to ask about them is their
level of sound suppression, ignoring the amplifier.  Unfortunately you
likely won't get a straight answer.

I asked Silencio about theirs and the best they'd tell me is they're based
on a model that normally has a 25 db suppression rating.  Because of the
amplifiers, they're "officially" rated as zero suppression.

I tried a pair at the local range.  If the range is busy your conversation
is going to be chopped up into unintelligible bits.  If it's not, you
don't need them.

The best uses I can think of for them are hunting and home defense -- if
you've got time to get them on.  For either case, I'd recommend the stereo
models (separate amp and mic for each ear).  I doubt you'll find them for
$60.

Just MHO, of course.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405