HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpenovic@wizard.Berkeley.EDU (Jan Penovich)
Subject: Re: Shows, kids and novice classes
Reply-To: jpenovic@encore.com
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:09:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.214529.3089@desire.wright.edu>,
sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
> 
> I've just GOT to brag, the youngest of the three girls who show my old
> gelding came out of the show today with a second and three thirds!  And
> one of the classes had 11 riders in it!  She got her second in the halter
>  [rest of description deleted]

  Sue,

  I know how you feel.  My six year old daughter rode in four
  classes on Saturday.  Walk/Trot pleasure and equation 12 & under
  (English) and walk/trot pleasure and equitation 10 & under
  (english and western).

  She took second in both 12 and under classes.  The same
  little girl won both firsts and she was 12.  So my little
  six year old did pretty good.

  In the 10 and under classes she got a third and a six.
  There were 10 horses in each class.

  I couldn't go cause I had a high fever (boo hoo), but my
  husband took her, and he was so excited about how well she
  did (he hasn't seen her ride in a long while), that he
  called me several times from the show to let me know her
  progress and to kvell (yiddish word meaning to be proud,
  gloat, especially about the accomplishments of a child).

  She's started cantering, and cantering small fences, so I
  guess she'll be moving up a division soon.

  Sorry for the long-winded article, but I just had to "kvell." :-)

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Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lmasterm@cs.ulowell.edu (Lisa Masterman)
Subject: Re: gymkhanas in the States
Originator: lmasterm@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:40:04 GMT


the only gymkhana game we used to do at camp that I did NOT like (in fact, I
detested it, but was forced to do it onece anyways) was the marshmallow
game.  We rode from one end of the ring to the other, got off, knelt down
in front of shallow bowls, and located and consumed two marshmallows buried
in flour without use of our hands.  While this is quite amusing to watch,
especially when the riders remount with their faces COVERED in flour to race 
back to the other end of the ring, flour tastes DISGUSTING and marshmallows
mixed with it stick in your braces for an eternity...

--lisa
From: sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Internal Arts in Baltimore?
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:35:58 GMT
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	Seems that there are no dessert topping styles in DC. How
about internal stylists in the Baltimore and Annapolis areas?

	Along a different line, does anyone know of classical Japanese
Ryu in the DC/Baltimore area?

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Books on Chi/Ki
Date: 24 Jul 1992 23:09:37 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <12465@inews.intel.com> jquarant@mipos3.UUCP (James R. Quaranta Jr.) writes:
>Have you ever known someone who has ended up psychotic or crippled from
>practicing Chi Kung?

My first teacher knew a couple who ended up psychotic doing Ch'i Kung (I
vaguely recall it was Chia's stuff, or something closely related).  Thorick
Chow (hello, Thorick?) says there's a person at his school who almost ended
up crippled from it.

My understanding from people in our club who've been to China is that Ch'i
Kung related disabilities are fairly common there (to the point that 
warning notices have appeared in general circulation papers, etc.).

>Why is it dangerous?

Because you are messing around with the way your body works.  The body
is a tremendously complicated interconnected web of regulatory systems.
Ch'i Kung alters these systems and their interaction.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Leading with face: "Illegal hit!  Illegal hit!"  (was Re: Hot water)
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:35:37 GMT
	<14qm53INNofn@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Jul25.151856.29551@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu's message of 25 Jul 92 15:18:56 GMT


In article <1992Jul25.151856.29551@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

[snipper snip snip]
   Just to have a little martial arts content, here's the story of the
   white belt who led with his face.  Once upon a time, a white belt
   entered a Kenpo tournament, where anyone who hit their opponent in
   the face would be disqualified. 

   The white belt had the habit of fighting hunched forward with his face
   sticking out. It represented a very tempting target, and his opponents
   kept hitting him there and getting disqualified until none of them 
   were left. The white belt won the prize in his division and never
   took another class. 

   Let me know if you think of a moral.

Um...something about winning the battle and losing the war?  Or perhaps
a poem from John Updike:

	Elegy for Jog

	Stiff-dog death, all froth on bloody chin
	Stands at the traffic's hedge.  Skinny-man death,
	His master, opens the traffic's hedge to let him in.

	Jog was his name, silliness his disaster.
	He wasn't satisfied to chase the truck:
	He had to bite the tire.  Fools have no luck.

There.  MA content, tying together multiple threads (hot water, tournament
sparring, dog-fu ;-) AND culture too.
--


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: years for black belt
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:24:16 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <POPOVICH.92Jul29145910@morningside.cs.columbia.edu>,
popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich) writes:
|> It seems to me that the important pressure is often not that test-day
|> pressure that you describe here.  It's that pressure that comes from
|> the instructor knowing that you're preparing for a test on date X, and
|> from everybody else in the dojo knowing it as well.  Various sorts of
|> "extras" appear in training before important tests.  Sparring gets

I meant the kind of pressure that causes ones mind to go blank. ("Oh no,
*how* does this form start?")  I've seen people do a form almost flawlessly,
then, 30 minutes later when they are called up to do it in front of the
judges, stand there with this frustrated, mournful look on their faces as
they realize they no longer have any idea how it goes.  Then 5 minutes later
when very few people are watching, perform it again almost flawlessly.

|> > Also, it isn't always one's own instructor that is doing the grading.  It
|> > can be thought of as getting a second opinion.
|> 
|> It's always valuable to get fresh insights from another instructor,
|> but I'd think that it would help the student more if he could get them
|> by training under the instructor (at a camp or a seminar, or just by
|> visiting his dojo) than by testing.  Or are you talking about somehow
|> "validating" the instructor's assessment of the student?
|> 
A little of both.  It helps to keep levels of skill somewhat standardized
if people from different schools judge each other's students.  I have also
been gotten some very helpful tips from visiting masters.

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
From: silverma@nunki.usc.edu (David Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: years for black belt
Date: 23 Jul 1992 19:40:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu

How many times does it gnerally take to pass the black belt test?
Someone earlier said they passed on the third try, in the art I'm
studying you get only one chance (of course they're pretty sure you'll
pass if they let you take it).

Dave

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Some general questions...
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:05:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Keywords: judo, akido, shotokan

In article <1992Jul23.185700.27627@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> guest@jaws1.austin.ibm.com () writes:
>
>P.S.  I'm ibm internal, so don't e-mail me (I won't get it).  Please, just post
>      here, on the net.

This isn't true.  We used to be part of IBM and you *can* get e-mail access
through the VNET.  You end up getting an address like "smythed@vnet.ibm.com"
and it ends up in your VM/CMS reader.  See your VM/MVS system administrator
for details.

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Hot water
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:10:51 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <1992Jul25.151856.29551@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

[story of white belt who led with his face deleted]

>Let me know if you think of a moral.


Um, if rules are enforced to the letter, silly things can happen?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: The swarm
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:31:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.124202.13643@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:

[snip]

>Wear foot pads for their safety,
>Wear a cup, they have a hard time getting their kicks up that high,
                                                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I beg to differ.  They have the instinctive ability to get their kicks
exactly that high! :)

Speaking of that, I was sparring with a 13 year old and taking it easy with
him.  He intentionally kicked me there twice.  Both times I told him to
get his kicks up.  It was obvious that he was aiming.  Finally I rapped
him *not too gently* on the head.  He didn't kick me there again.  I still
don't know why he was doing it though.

PS: he was 13, but about 5'4".
-- 

-Ben
From: jamesh@castle.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: When to start kumite?
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:25:49 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Jul22.055111.15038@nuscc.nus.sg> nuscc.nus.sg writes:
>
>    I used to pracitce shotokan karate. There our instructor believed in
>starting kumite after receiving black belt only. Now I am practicing 
>shitoryu karate where kumite is started well in advance of black belt.
>
>    Each approach in learning kumite  has its own advantages: 
>starting kumite after black belt ensures that one is experienced enough 
>to use his skills; Starting it at earlier stages, on the other hand,
>makes him more experienced in kumite when he receives his black belt.
>
>    But which one is really prefarable? In my own opinion, it might be 

 This article caught my eye as it is something I've thought about a lot.
I did shotokan style karate for 7 years until I was forced out by a hip
problem(now cured thanks to an osteopath...). I always felt that
the kumite was started too soon at our club(it started whilst you were
still a white belt). My feeling is that it should probably be left until
yellow or green belt, but before that they should do lots of practice of
techniques with partners. Indeed the lack of such practice at my club
beyond just practising basic kicks, blocks & punches , I felt prevented
learning the kumite effectively and also hampered the usefulness for it
as self defense. Another useful addition would have been to study the
applications of kata in depth as well, even with the basic Heian(or
Pinan depending on style) katas. Both these practices would IMHO help
people in both kumite and learning self defence.In fact, if you were
leaving kumite until after black belt, lots of practice of pre arranged
sparring and kata application would be good practice before it.

James


-- 
  James Hammerton,2nd year Computer Science at University of Edinburgh
  Email: jamesh@uk.ac.ed.castle   Or: jh@uk.ac.ed.dcs                 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: akif@sequent.com (Aki Fleshler)
Subject: Re: karate Kid III
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:01:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.081938.20450@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar) writes:
>
>Over here in Europe, WUKO Rules are for controlled contact, but quite 
>a few heavy techniques get through, sometimes because the guy walks onto
>them, but usually, the offender gets a haisoku, or wazari against him.
					*******     ******
Please explain for us non-karateka ...
Thanks in advance!

-- 
Aki Fleshler                                  * akif@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems Inc.                 * (503) 578-4570
15450 SW Koll Parkway, RHE2-775               * FAX (503) 578-7569
Beaverton OR 97006-6063                       *
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: Light Body Techniques
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:44:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Jul23.223925.6831@unixg.ubc.ca> sworking@unixg.ubc.ca (Scott Workinger) writes:
>Actually, I'm less interested in the mean dog blues than I am in the quotation
>in Peter's .sig.  This is an implied reference to a rare form of chi kung that
>lightens the body.  Has anyone heard of any current practitioners/teachers of 
>this skill in North America?  Anywhere else?

Well, obviously you can't change your mass, so that's out.  The only reference
I've seen personally to this is in the Hua To 5 Animal training, in the
Crane postures.  It was indicated as a visualization, only.

>Supposedly one of 
>the previous abbots of Shaolin could dive into a one finger "handstand."
                                      ^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm.   Ouch!  Although, this would probably be easier than a "1-finger
handstand pushup".

>I've even seen a picture of one of the monks doing a one finger handstand
>although the photo looked faked to me.

I saw a picture of that today.  It may have been the same one; it was in
a book from the PRC on the current (or at least fairly recent) monks at
the Shaolin Temple in Henan.  (I know it's not quite current, because the
current head Abbott pictured is no longer living and the former head
disciple is the current head Abbot).  The guy's feet were just a little
fuzzy, and the picture was from the side.  I don't know how he got into
the posture.  It could have been a transitory posture that was captured
on film, but I don't know how you would tell that.  (Actually, on reflection,
the guy was using the index *and* middle fingers of one hand, so it wasn't
really a 1-finger handstand then.  Sorry.) I've also seen pictures of a
guy doing 1-finger on each hand.   Ouch...

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar)
Subject: Re: When to stop fighting? (was: Kumite)
Keywords: sparring
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:49:09 GMT

jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer) writes:


>Of course tournaments are different, they are expostional rather than applied.
>You're there to demonstrate knowledge and execution of technique.  Once this is
>accomplished, continuing is pointless.  In a _Real_Fight_(tm) continuing is pointless
>ONLY when your opponent's threat capability has been removed.

To add even more to an already long thread...

At the last karate tournament I attended, the judges tried something a little
different from what we usually do.  Point were counted only when it was obvious
that one person in the match had control of the other.  This means that last
minute punches or kicks that are thrown with the effect of stopping an attack
but not reversing who has control (you defended but did not follow up on the
advantage) were counted as _blocks_ not strikes.  Matches were a little longer
in some cases and significantly shorter in others.  The mood of the matches
was also noticably different.  People went in expecting a harder fight and it
seemed that technique in the last few rounds (when placings were decided) were
considerably cleaner.  Might just have been coincidence.  Anyway I'd be
interested in hearing what others think about this for tournaments.

One last note...for kumite in the dojo, we occasionally train what our sensei
calls "wolf pack" kumite (two or more people gang up on one).  This gets pretty
blood thirsty sometimes :) but creates a level of pressure that can be hard
to create with regular sparring.  What sort of rules (if "rules" is a good 
word to use) might be used to regulate, for example, when "bad guys" are 
removed from action and when the "good guy" has had it.  Just looking for
variations.  We use a five second (count to five out loud) delay before bad
guys can start in again and no real "good guy loses" rule (just a one or two
minute time limit).

Neil
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Diff. betweeREAD/NEWn Eastern and Western thought
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:47:23 GMT
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

z_hilbornrs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
  
  +>The difference between Western and Occidental thought is that Occidentals 
  +>recognize mastery and Westerners have to have everything proven.

sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
  
  +I think you're a little dis-orient-ed. Perhaps the confusion is Occidental?

I think that his generalizations probably don't en-compass all 
orientals or occidentals.


Terry "Which was is up?" Chan 
--
Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov                 The future isn't what it used to be.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: C'hi Kung Training
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:29:49 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <EeQlA1W00iU4Q5CVwe@andrew.cmu.edu> sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:
>	Recently, I've read some material which seems to indicate that
>the qi gong danger was overblown, and that the PRC government had
>political motives for the clamp down.

I happened to have caught the last 15 minutes of a PRC propaganda movie
on how some elite army types are training in hard chi kung..  complete
with the required demos of people getting concrete slabs busted on
top of their heads, poking holes in bricks and getting run over by trucks.

The paranoid conspiritorial side of me (  :-)  )  wonders if the PRC
govt would want to limit who gets such powers (i.e. the military),
just like some gun-prohibitionists here want to steer us towards
a police state  :-)

-thorick "don't trust anyone in the seat of power" chow   :-)




--
"We must be careful not to discourage our 12-year-olds by making them   
 waste the best years of their lives on preparing for examinations.  If
 we do not stifle their interest in science, one of them has a chance to
 be the new Heisenberg..."              - Freeman Dyson
From: sworking@unixg.ubc.ca (Scott Workinger)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: karate Kid III
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:23:48 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada

In article <1992Jul23.133540.13867@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>
>	3) I am also curious if any of you have had experience with a truly
>	   evil instructor, like the character (Kreese) in the movie?
>

On the day I joined my first Karate class, the sensei told me:
"Death is a good excuse for missing class, but the least you can do
is invite us over to watch you die.  Maybe we can help."

But it was better to miss class than to be late.  He was known to make
a late student stand in front of the class and have all the other 
students punch him in the solar plexus in turn.  Anyone that slacked on the
punch was immediately in trouble with the teacher, himself.  One guy
was black and blue across his abdomen for 3 months after that.  He was
also punctual.  This teacher also liked to personally beat on his students 
now and then.  (I doubt that he could get away with such excesses in the U.S.
today.  These incidents occured during a less litigious time.)

I eventually had to drop out of the class because I ripped out part of one
hamstring muscle doing kicks without being properly warmed up.  The sensei
insisted that I continue the workout.  (I was too young and inexperienced
to tell him to go to hell.)  I finished the workout; however,
I didn't walk so well for the rest of the summer.  I still have a knot
in my hamstring muscle when it's flexed which is about the size of a 
chicken's egg.

Evil?  Well, maybe not.  But I think he was more than a little crazy.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar)
Subject: Re: Hot water
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:30:13 GMT

>In rec.martial-arts, ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>>On the same subject, I've also heard that warm or hot water is
>>more readily absorbed into the body than cold.  So the
>>general idea being that you should drink warm water to replenish
>>your body's water after a workout.
>>
>>Marty

Yup, that's right. After karate training, I've been drinking tea, while my
taste buds have been screaming for ice cold Coke/Pepsi/Tango (or Irn Bru
for fellow Scots out there). The cold drinks taste much better, and make me
burp/belch like buggery after, but when I drink tea, I don't wake up in
the middle of the night, gasping for a drink.

Best idea is to drink both :-)

Derek


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Judo and Tai Chi?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:26:00 CDT

In article <1992Jul30.201823.22941@cs.brown.edu> jhc@iris.UUCP (James H. Coombs) writes:

> I do know that Shotokan
>Karate and Aikido do not mix.

... please, why do you say this?

thank you,
-Lauren