HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bleck@aztec.ai.mit.edu (Olaf Bleck)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Computerized LogBook
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:21:17 GMT
Reply-To: bleck@ai.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <1992Sep10.161007.17214@ctr.columbia.edu>, joe@avs.com (Joe Peterson) writes:
|> Olaf Bleck (bleck@aztec.ai.mit.edu) wrote:
|> : In article <BuBpHK.28I@virtech.uucp>, you write:
|> : |> fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu wrote:
|> : 
|> : |> ========================= jumplog.c ==================================
|> : |> /* Logbook program - Joe Peterson */
|> : 
|> : Hey joe%avs.uucp@uunet.uu.net, is that yours?
|> : That's some pretty ugly c code there!!
|> 
|> I'm hurt Olaf!!

Oh, that's okay. I'm sorry... I'm sure your current code is much cleaner!

-Olaf
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: barrey@Novell.com (Barrey Jewall)
Subject: Re: Hinckley sky diving loses a twin Beech
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:55:15 GMT

Update on the Hinckley crash from rec.aviation:

In rec.aviation rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller) writes:

>Hinckley Sky Diving lost a twin Beech D-18 with 12 on board (11 divers,
>one pilot, all killed) on September 7 (Labor Day holiday in the US)

>news reports including an interview with a witness makes it look like he
>lost the left engine between 300 and 900 feet after takeoff, was able
>to line up for a landing in a bean field, but then got too slow on the
>approach and cartwheeled. then it burned. they never got high enough
>to use the chutes. newspaper and TV pictures show the aircraft in a
>vertical position, but the witnesses have indicated that he was in a
>landing attitude before impact, but was slow.

>the airplane had passed a "ramp check" last month and the pilot had 26
>years of piloting jump planes. there does not appear to be any
>irregularities in maintenance, weight, CG, emergency procedures, or
>pilot experience.

>Hinckley is about 50 miles west of Chicago and has active sky diving and
>glider operations. more when i find out ...

>Rich Miller
>rmiller@i88.isc.com

My sincere condolences to all of those affected by the crash.

Barrey
--
+ Barrey Jewall - Network  Admin.++  and yea, though I walk through the shadow 
+ barrey@novell.com	         ++ of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am
+ Novell, Inc.- San Jose, Calif. ++ the meanest sonofabitch in the valley...
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Yumping in France
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:29:54 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1992Sep11.012552.24314@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach) writes:
>I'm going to be in France for a few days plus a weekend in October.  Anyone
>have any good recommendations on where to jump there?
>
>--
>Mark
>D14706

Where in France? There are numerous drop zones.

-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Spotting and Ground Speed
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 00:13:02 GMT

In article <893.2AB494FB@ehsnet.fidonet.org> SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE) writes:
>Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
>Fido-To: romulus!leland.stanford.edu!eap
>
> r> I do somewhat agree that "ground speed" can be misleading, but maybe
> r> we could say "The rate at wich the aircraft is penetrating the wind".
> r> This is, however, directly related to ground speed.
>
>Wrong on both counts.  The rate at which the aircraft is penetrating the wind is the exact definition of "Airspeed."  

I think youi got things a little outa context here......

If the plane is flying with an airspeed equal to the windspeed, then the ground 
speed is zero. Hence, I would call this "no penetration" for trying to
get across the ground. 

>
>And groundspeed may be related to airspeed but it is greatly affected by the wind speed.
>

No kidding, what's your point?

 

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: buick@belay (Patrick D. Buick)
Subject: Re: Please define a few abbreviations
Organization: Belay Enterprises Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:17:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.140325.11649@seq.uncwil.edu> cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper) writes:
>nws@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Eddie Roberts (The National Weather Service)) writes:
>
>>   defined.  Can someone help me out on the meainings?
>>   (I guessed on a few...correct me if I am wrong)
>
>>	-   CTAF
>		Commmon Trafic Advisory Frequency aka. UNICOM, used by planes
>		at uncontrolled fields to notify others in the area of
>		their intentions.
>
>>	-   ATC
>		Air Traffic Control, FAA employess concerned with the coordination
>		and separation of airplanes in accordance with the appropriate FARs
>
>>	-   BSR
>		Anyone??????
>
>>	-   FAR         Federal Aviation Regulations.
>		Yes
>>	-   GA          General Aviation
>		Yes
>		
>>	    Now if GA is really genaral aviation is there another
>>	    abbreviation for commercial aviation or military 
>>	    aviation ?
>		I dunno
>
>>	-   IFR         Instrumental ?????
>		Instrument Flight Rules-governs all flight above 18K and
>		flight without aid of outside visual reference, planes 
>		can fly under IFR in good weather, too.
>
>>	-   VFR         Visual ?????
>		Visual Flight Rules-good weather, good visibility, 
>		"Piper Cub" flying so to speak, what a newly licensed 
>		Private Pilot flys in and (to the best of my knowledge)
>		what skydivers jump in. (At least that's the way it was
>		when my Dad was jumping, ~15 years ago).
>
>>	-   The difference between a throw-away pilot-chute and a
>>	    pull-out pilot chute.
>		Anyone???
>
The Throw-Away is held and thrown out to pull the main.. the 
pull-out goes with the rip cord.  (If'n I don't miss my guess)
>-- 
>   Kit Cosper                        cosper@seq.uncwil.edu         
>   PP-ASEL-IA                        AMA 31022


-- 
==========================================================
Patrick D. Buick EMT, EET | Internet: buick%belay.uucp@uunet.uu.net
Belay Enterprises Inc.    | Internet: buickp@cuug.ab.ca
Calgary, Alberta, Canada  | UUCP:..keyword!calgary!pixel!belay!buick
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Computerized LogBook
Date: 6 Sep 92 22:44:40 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <27563@life.ai.mit.edu> bleck@ai.mit.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.182506.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>|> Is there any good shareware/freeware program available to track freefall
>|> time. I'm looking for something like a computer logbook for a MS-DOS or
>|> windows environment.
>|> 				Thanks,
>|> 				Brandon
>
>
>/*This is shareware.  Send me $500 before you use it, or I'll sue you
>for your gear */

There were a few bugs in the above mentionned program, both C bugs and
logic bugs.
Here is my attempt at fixing the program:


#include <stdio.h>

#define INFINITE 0xFFFFFFFF
#define SKYGOD 1
#define TOAD 0


main() {

  unsigned long ff_time = 0;
  int i;
  int jumper_type= TOAD;
  int standard_opening_altitude=2500;
  int num_jumps;
  int jump_altitude;
  unsigned hours=0, minutes=0, seconds=0;


  printf("Enter number of jumps you have:");
  scanf("%d",&num_jumps);
  
  if (jumper_type == SKYGOD) {
    ff_time = INFINITE;
    fprintf(stdout, "time out of calculatable range");
    exit();
  }
  else 
    for (i=1; i<=num_jumps; i++) {
      printf("Enter Exit Altitude (in feet) for jump #%d:", i);
      scanf("%d",&jump_altitude);
      if (jump_altitude > standard_opening_altitude)
      	ff_time += (jump_altitude - standard_opening_altitude)/200 + 5;
    }
  hours = ff_time/3600;
  minutes = (ff_time - hours*3600)/60;
  seconds = ff_time - hours*3600 - minutes*60;
  printf("\nFreefall time %d:%d:%d\n",hours, minutes, seconds);
}


Compile with cc logbook.c -o logbook

Can run interactively or by creating a plain asci file or the kind:
3 
5000
12500
7500





where the first number is the number of jumps, the others are the jump
altitudes; do
logbook < data 
if the file is called data and you use UN*X.
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: You may pick up your pencils...
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:17:54 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!hpcc01.corp.hp.com!boucher

 r> calling around about used gear and in the past 2 months I've spoken with 2 
 r> guys who did about 30 and 50 jumps, respectively, had a reserve ride, and 
 r> placed their gear up for sale immediately.  

Then I would say that the sport just wasn't for them.

 r> Got me to wondering if the folks with 1000 jumps go through the same soul
 r> searching that the newbies do after their first reserve ride. 

I doubt it.  The ride itself is no big deal.  But, depending on what other circumstances there were, such as getting open at 20 feet, that might scare someone pretty good.  They might have to wonder how the hell they got themselves down there in the first place.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd.  HST/DS (1:102/853)
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SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Yumping in France
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:33:21 GMT
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <1992Sep14.201450.23826@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com> laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach) writes:
>Oops, sorry for the omission, I will be between Lyon and Grenoble from October 14th
>through 18th.
>

I used to go back to France every year and skydive all summer long but I
have not done that in a while :-(. So I kinda forgot the names and
locations of most dropzones.

But, here are two names to mention to a phone operator to get phone
numbers to get more info:
1) Parachutes de France, near Paris, Porte de Clignancourt, if memory
serves. They are closed on Sundays but you should be able to find someone
there to help you who speaks english.

2) Federation Francaise de Parachutistes (frog equivalent for USPA).
Also in Paris. ditto about closing times.

Good luck and have fun.

-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: You may pick up your pencils...
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:36:02 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!hpcc01.corp.hp.com!boucher

 r> All this talk about reserve rides and a couple of recent dreams about 
 r> malfunctions have got me to wondering...

 r> Statement: One cannot fully define one's commitment to 
 r> or relationship with 
 r> the sport of skydiving until one's first reserve ride.

 r>  1. True or False?

False.

 r>  2. Explain your answer.
 r> You have 30 minutes. Begin.

I have several explanations.

1.  You could be committed, but the ride could change your mind.
    But that's a sort of cop-out answer, so

2.  To form a full commitment one would have to weigh all the aspects.  This would include accepting the fact that a reserve ride might someday be necessary.  Therefore, having it actually happen some day would change nothing.

3.  You could make a case for reserve rides actually being irrelevant to the commitment.  To make an analogy, say you almost got killed on the freeway while driving to work, or you girlfriend's house.  That would not change your relationship with either of them would it?  The analogy is good.  Only the equipment (cars, gear) and your skill at using them (driving/avoiding accidents, skydiving/cutting away) are involved.  The other stuff (work, love, skydiving) weren't at fault, so are irrelevant.

Bill Caefer
Zen skydiver

--- Maximus 2.01wb
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd.  HST/DS (1:102/853)
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SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
internet: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG
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From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: you aren't going to believe this...
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:04:23 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney

In article <Bu1p0z.9tH@iat.holonet.net> allen@iat.holonet.net (Allen Erickson) writes:
>bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon) writes:
>
>: 2 of my favourite student stories :
>: 
>: -  The student who cut-away because he couldn't pump the slider up.
>: He flared the canopy twice as he was taught but the slider stayed
>: down, so he used his emergencies procedures.  He did everything by the
>: book, except for one misunderstanding.
>
>That happened at Skydance, was that the incident you heard about,

No no it happened here.  In Australia.  At Wilton.  Thats about 12000km
or so from Skydance.  I was the TCO and was the first to talk to him
after he landed so I know it happened here.

>or is
>that one repeatable?

Well it seems so.  Are you sure you didn't hear about ours and somehow
the story got transferred to Skydance.  I can imagine a lot of student
misconceptions repeating themselves at different dropzones.  But I
thought this one was a once off.


Bob V!
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: 11-Cell Canopy Question
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 00:38:39 GMT

>*Someday*, (maybe not soon), I want to strap a board
>on my feet and go for it.  That pretty much means dumping while standing
>up.  Of the various ZP canopies on the market, does anyone have an idea
>which ones might best be packable for super-snivelly openings?  Or which
>ones would best take being dumped at 150 mph without blowing up?  For that
>matter, does anyone know what Patrick deG jumps?  Some Blue Track
>masterpiece which isn't available short of import?

Well, my 2cent intuition tells me you want a bigger canopy  as they 
tend to open slower for a given loading. 

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jvilhube@diana.cair.du.edu (Jan Vilhuber)
Subject: Re: HELP: Things to consider when buying a hand altimeter?
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:26:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.084408.14571@pta.pyramid.com.au> bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon) writes:
>I know of at least one hard-core accuracy jumper (world-meet standard)
>who straps his altimeter to his left thigh.  The theory is that he can
>look straight down between his legs and his altimeter will always be in
>line of sight, regardless of how deep brakes he is in.
>
Sounds like Mike Driver. He jumps here in Colo, USA, and was my tandem
master for rthe first two jumps. He always has his altimeter on his thigh.

-- 
 Jan Vilhuber            | Internet: jvilhube@du.edu or jvilhube@[130.253.1.4]
 (The skydivin' Bass)      | Bitnet  : jvilhube@DUCAIR
--------------------------------------------------
From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: HELP: Things to consider when buying a hand altimeter?
Date: 15 Sep 92 08:44:08 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney

In article <1992Sep11.153627.27363@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com> traurig@ncavax.decnet.lockheed.com writes:
>  These are all of the altimeter mounting positions I've seen in regular use:
>			Chest
>			Mud Flap
>			Wrist/Hand
>			Hip
>			None!
>
>  Does anyone have any others they've seen?  No joke positions allowed, it has
>to be in regular use by at 1 person.  Personally, I always wanted a miniature
>-in-the-goggle readout, but I love electronic toys, although I haven't
>purchased a digital altimeter yet.

I know of at least one hard-core accuracy jumper (world-meet standard)
who straps his altimeter to his left thigh.  The theory is that he can
look straight down between his legs and his altimeter will always be in
line of sight, regardless of how deep brakes he is in.

But then he didn't win the just completed World Championships so I
don't know good a theory it is.


Bob V!
From: dth@reef.cis.ufl.edu (David Hightower)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Skydiving in central AL
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:04:02 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

Don't let the return address fool you; I'm actually at Maxwell AFB, and
looking for a good DZ to get back into it.  A few questions:

I have 12 jumps so far (oooh! ahhh!), but my last jump was in 1989.  I
know that I have to go through the whole training course again: the
question is, should I continue the way I was (static line--5 sec FF --
etc) or go straight for the AFF?  I was relatively unstable in the few 5
sec FFs that I did; I'm thinking that AFF might help me, as I'd have
more time to find a stable position.

Does anyone know about skydiving at Rucker?  Or Benning?  At Rucker,
specifically, where do they jump from?  Costs?

Any info would be helpful.  Thanks!

Dave
_________________________________________________________________________
Dave Hightower		|    opinion? I'm allowed to have an opinion?
dth@cis.ufl.edu		| well, if I DID have one, it'd be mine, all mine!
hightowr@cadre.af.mil   |              "Omnia Vincit Amour"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ks@acn.purdue.edu (Kirk Smith)
Subject: Rig for sale
Reply-To: ks@acn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:09:03 GMT

I have the following rig that I'm getting ready to put up for sale:

Talon
    around 650 jumps
    has leg pouch or bottom of container throwout (use whichever pouch you want)
    comes with Sunshine Factory collapsible pilot chute, with hacky handle
    has mini risers with front riser dive loops
    navy blue with lavendar trim

Firelite reserve
    1 deployment after CRW entanglement, worked great

Excaliber 170
    about 550 jumps.
    Lines are 550 microline and have less than 50 jumps on them
    Lands me great in all wind conditions
    Sometimes opens a bit fast, so I don't like using it for camera jumps.
    Tri-cells are royal blue,burgundy,purple,light blue,purple,burgundy,royal blue.

I'm 5'7" and 155 lbs.  It's a bit small for me (functional, but not comfortable).

I'll probably come up with a target price sometime in the next few weeks.  Please
feel free to make an offer or inquire further.

					Kirk "Boog" Smith
					ks@acn.purdue.edu

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: wain@decoy.uucp (25498-greenhalgh)
Subject: Re: HELP: Things to consider when buying a hand altimeter?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:58:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.164707.13097@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com> traurig@ncavax.decnet.lockheed.com writes:
>
>
>	I never really understood why everyone started switching to hand mounts,
>except as a "fashion thing".  They make sense for AFF and tandem jumpmasters,
>but on a regular RW load it's easier to read your neighbor's altimeter, and you
>can only do that easily if everyone is wearing chest mounts.  Oh well...
>

I switched to a hand mount when I started doing video.  It is a little
distracting to see the picture move down as the cameraperson searches for
an altimeter.  With a hand mount I can bring the altimeter into view without
moving my head.  Since I don't want to buy two altimeters I use my handmount
for all jumps.



H. Wain Greenhalgh
wain@decoy.cc.bellcore.com
BELLCORE
Piscataway, NJ
From: bleck@aztec.ai.mit.edu (Olaf Bleck)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: hot canopies
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:06:18 GMT
Reply-To: bleck@ai.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

Anybody jumped the AR7, 9 or 11?  They had a bunch of ads in the last
parachutist--ZP, but they claim it isn't as slippery as most of the ZP, i.e. 
friendlier to pack!  Cost, ~$1500 list.


-Olaf
From: yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Weeee...My first jump
Keywords: tandem
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:07:53 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Chevron Oil Field Research, La Habra, CA.

In article <5674@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu> 6500fly@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Carmen Mullenhoff) writes:
>I went for my first skydive out at Lodi, CA on
>Sunday.  It was a tandem jump and was a great way
>to get introduced to such an incredibly exhilarating and
>cool sport.
>   
>I'm so excited about it that I'm considering taking the
>class (either static line or AFF). But I'm wondering if
>now would be a good time with cooler weather on the way
>or if it would be better to wait for Spring time?

Go for it now.
-- 
  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709
From: SKYDIVE@f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org (SKYDIVE)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Richmond, Indiana
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:19:24 GMT

Reply-to: Chris.Irwin@p0.f68.n110.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Irwin)
Fido-To: romulus!pta.pyramid.com.au!bob

>>Just a note to invite everyone to the first annual "Richmond
> Turf-Surfing
>>contest."
 
> Well I sure can't make it Indiana.  Its just a bit out my way.  But
> I'd real interested in the "rules" and the methods of judging.
 
Bummer.  The wind was never less than 8 MPH so, the contest never materialized... I guess it's just a no-wind kinda thing...

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SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
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From: artb@hplsla.hp.com (Art Bori)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:05:28 GMT
Subject: Re: first timer questions
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving

In article /rec.skydiving / rmfowler@landru.mtc.ti.com (Rex Fowler) /  8:36 am  Sep  4, 1992 /
>
>	For $50 extra I can have the jump video taped.  Do the videos
>	turn out pretty good?

It depends upon what you get for your $50.  Is it complete coverage (including
instruction, training, gear-up, exit, landing, post-jump celebration)?
Is the quality of the video-persons work worth $50?  Is the image quality
worth the money?

As a point of reference, the going rates around here are about $45-50 for
video only.  For video and stills: $65-75 (tandem student gets the 
roll of film - 24 exposures).  

Keep in mind that you only make your first jump once.  No matter how hard
you try, you'll never be able to describe the feeling or experience.  A video
can help.

BTW - I shoot video (tandems and RW) and I think that being able watch your-
self on video or look at a photo helps re-live experience...especially if
you only do it once.

Blue skies,
Art Bori
D-11402
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving