From: murphyg@Software.Mitel.COM (Gary Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.support
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for when you feel depressed for no reason?
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:36:36 GMT
	<1992Oct13.061645.20535@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<MURPHYG.92Oct14091509@murphyg.Software.Mitel.COM>
	<1992Oct15.074406.22074@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Applications Software II, MITEL Corporation, Kanata, Ontario,
	Canada
In-reply-to: sykopath@leland.Stanford.EDU's message of 15 Oct 92 07:44:06 GMT


Greeting friends!  

Good to see this group is vigilantly guarded and before I get any
further, my apologies to Mickey, as while my follow-up to that original
post was direct and I cannot find in any of what I read any hint of the
insults or anger he alludes to, I am sorry if it was taken this way.
I'd had a bad week, and this is not the place to be posting such things
if that is the case.  I also want to thank Mickey his long and
thoughtful post clarifying the subject line.

In article <1992Oct15.074406.22074@leland.Stanford.EDU> sykopath@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mickey) writes:

   >What did you do then?

   I first decided not to post a reply, until:
   1) I knew more or less exactly what I wanted to say, and
   2) I had been experiencing the anger long enough to not act from it.

   Then I told the friend I was talking to about what had happened,
   and accepted her sympathy and comfort (thanks, Sarah.  You were
   a true comfort, and just what I needed at that point.)

This, I find, and this is again, my _thought_ and not to be construed as
a formal proof, much more what the subject line asks about depression:
it shows the method, the actions.  They are even itemized in a
procedural form.  step 4 is missing but obvious, you made that wonderful
posting, and in all those states you recount up to this list, in all
those stages of coming to this purpose, depression only appears, what,
twice?  Even then, it is relating to what you call depressing reading.
I agree with the psychologist: any label of Mickey as 'depressed' is
strictly for insurance bookkeeping!

   How is it relevant to the discussion (which was originally a suggestion
   about how to deal with embarrassing memories) whether I'm depressed
   at this moment or not? 

Because, if you are not, yet you were, you must have made the
transition.  What did you do to effect this?

   And again, I perceive hostility in your question...if I'm misperceiving,
   please inform me, and I'll correct my impression.

No, not dumping on your friends, as that is up to your friends to say,
and not dumping here, because there are no such rules here.  You also
explained later in your post that this was a mutual effort by both
parties, and then describe all sorts of other factors in a friendship,
further extending the simple advice to "talk about it". What I wanted to
know was how, if the mere telling has the effects you described of so
diffusing the memories that you cannot even recall what they are not
(and this is not an accusation, but an observation) why are there
cronically depressed people? Could it be there are just too many
_lonely_ people?

   I personally find that helping a friend who is in emotional 
   distress often *subtracts from* my troubles, in that
   1) it distracts me from them,
   2) it helps me get them into perspective, and
   3) it is an activity which I feel good about doing.
   My friends report that they feel the same way, from their perspective.

So here is another solution to the subject line, and this is one I know
is very successfully used to treat terminal cancer patients.  This
mutual support and especially the activity of helping others, whether
for emotional or physical troubles, is an action, not a word-play.

   This is quite possible (and, in fact, is the fundamental rationale
   behind the whole field of psychology: the past affects us, and the
   present can affect the *way* in which the past affects us), and is
   the only goal of the above-mentioned therapy.

And you accuse me of assertions!  Sorry, no offense, but this is an
opinion and it is only fair we can trade one call of dogma :-)  You
still win the argument, but I claim this match point! :-)

   I hope that this post clarifies what I intended to say originally,
   and will allow you to view it (and me) with perhaps less hostility,
   and ideally with fewer (as I perceived them) personal attacks
   required in the response...?

Again, my apoligies for the hostility which must have been there or I
would not have received the reception I did.  But I do want to thank you
for clarifying how the telling was not what eased your burden, but just
a part of a mutual interaction, of friendship; this makes a great deal
more sense and again, just in my opinion, a better illustration for the
subject line.

   I welcome any response you (or anyone else) may care to give to this posting, 
   as I'd like to know what your reaction to it is.

Such as it is, here 'tis.  I hope it's seen less threatening than the
last.


--
Gary Lawrence Murphy/murphyg@software.mitel.com/mitel!software!murphyg@uunet.ca
 Mitel Corp - 350 Legget Drive, Kanata, Ontario, Canada - (613) 592-2122 x3709
     "Belief is not the beginning but the end of all knowledge."
                     -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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