From: rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz)
Subject: Re: ger2en19.lzh
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:36:04 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


In article <1992Jul22.084042.29698@peponi.wcc.govt.nz> sheppard_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>Stop being a bigot Bill, the same can happen if you are using the old Zoo 2.01
>with new Zoo 2.1 files..

again you resort to namecalling. libelous namecalling at that (since i am not
even a bigot).

i agree that zoo can cause some obscure problems with certain system configs.
i am not, however, a bigot. zoo, however, does not pose any problems to anyone
willing to use a CLI. it is possible to extract any non-corrupt zoo archive
(and even most all corrupt ones). as the original poster pointed out, this
is (as usual) not the case with lh5 archives. you have to assume there are
people here that have just started reading this group and have no idea
what version of LHarc is required for what .lzh file and may not even know
there is (now) a unix version to handle the problem for the time being. note
that with zoo, this is less of a problem because it works the same way on
any system, be it unix, amigados, MS-DOS, or TOS. there is a de facto standard
for zoo. there is none for lharc.

>Its like the help info in one of the Unix ports that I fond on A.A. it used
>the Unix text format with no CR, so is this the way that you freaks program
>so that you can't even list the help info in the ttp..??

this is not an issue. both lharc and zoo will merrily pack files without
CR-LF sequences. it is just a feable attempt to again discredit users who
prefer CLIs. insulting namecalling will get you nowhere real fast as well.
besides, why on earth do you want to read docs for a program which is a
unix port? stick with your desktop, mister. a unix user would know what to
do here. are u actually suggesting that there are some unix utilities
that are useful? besides, TOS and DOS share an ancestry with CPM. that is
the only reason CR-LF is used on the ST. you want to discuss how "wacky"
DOS is with 64k segment limits and a zillion programming models? LF-only
is just as valid a line terminator as CR-LF as is VMS's method (which is
totally unlike either, as i recall). all you need is to understand the
difference to deal with text files from foreign sources.

if you had stopped to ask for a solution, any one of us would have gladly
mailed you a program to convert LF to CR-LF. this would run from the desktop
as well. it is so trivial (to a programmer) that it is hardly an issue.
instead you prefer to call us "freaks".

>This was the tarz or compress program that did this, and was not the doc file,
>and why can't we have standard Doc files that we can list on the Atari as it
>stands, by using the desk top..??

what is tarz?
like zoo and lharc, tar/compress will NOT alter cr/lf. you are totally
wrong here. in fact if it did, it would not be tar (since there is an
international ISO and IEEE standard defining the behavior of tar).
the contents of the original file are left totally unmodified
(unless there is a bug in the program and having portable source for both
tar and compress allows you to fix any bugs you do encounter). i can quite
simply list the contents of any compressed tar file on the ST with from a CLI
that supports pipes with "compress -d file | tar tvf -". i can create an alias
for this in many CLIs (for example, a csh-like CLI might use something like:
alias x 'compress -d \!$ | tar tvf -') and then i only need type "x file<CR>".
exactly 7 keystrokes if you're keeping track. you can't do that from the
desktop at all, however, hence your disdain. surely you can't object to
typing 7 chars when you spend so much time typing notes to this group? or
do you "mouse" each letter from a menu? :-)

you can also replace the default file pager on the desktop to something more
rational like the (yuck) unix "less" program, if you bothered to read the
docs on the desktop.inf file. less will handle both LF and CR-LF terminated
text files without difficulty (at least my less does). as a CLI user, even
i know (and use) this desktop trick.

yell at the poster of the file who packed it that way if you want. don't blame
the archive program, be it zoo, tar, or LHarc. or call it a "bug" and we'll
fix it (if it is a bug and not just a misunderstanding or failure to read
the documentation).

>Also Bill you have been out voted here, so live with the fact..

funny, i must have missed the article with the results of this "vote".
i bet the original poster complaining about .lzh files would not get your
vote, however. it seems to me that there are far more "i have a problem with
this .lzh file" than there are "zoo is driving me nuts" posts.

i think it wise that you stop speculating about how unix works. there are
people here who have years of experience with it and would chew you to
pieces. best bet would be to remain silent on unix issues. you can talk
all you want on the desktop. just a friendly suggestion/warning...

i am curious as to how you actually interface to usenet. can you tell me
(or us) how you post notes here? what system is used as the interface to
the net? and what operating system does it run?

-bill
-- 
Bill Rosenkranz            |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp.      |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com