From: bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advantages
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:54:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <17132@mindlink.bc.ca> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
>I previously mentioned that GURPS advantages sounded like highly quantized
>attributes.  A "Strong Will" advantage is basically the same as a "Will"
>attribute with only three possibilities: average (not appearing on character
>sheet), exceptionally high, or exceptionally low.

	Well, the idea is to create 3 separate areas.  They're not
quite how you put it, though.  You're either "normal" (in other
words, your Perception = IQ, etc) or you're "above normal" (IQ+X),
or you're "below normal" (IQ-X...hmn...actually, in GURPS, there
isn't any "Stunted Perception" disad is there?).
	The truth is that people rarely take these "extra stats" and
because of the 4 main statistics, it DOES make things much easier.
I suppose if I was running a very high-point game, people might be
tempted to go hog-wild, but I've never seen it happen (still, it
COULD).  But I HAVE found that this is a very simple method that
separates things out in a way that I really happen to like.  Sure,
they could add a GURPS Perception statistic (really easy since it
effectively exists already...just set Perception = IQ...), a GURPS
Charisma, a GURPS Attractiveness, a GURPS Sight, a GURPS Hearing...
	But the point was for GURPS stats to be a really general
overview of a character and adding in all these small details really
seems to detract from that for me.  I much prefer people to take a
Strong Will Advantage instead of adding X points to their Will
stat.
>
>How many of these attributes-that-are-not-labeled-attributes does the typical
>GURPS character have, and are they really easier to keep track of than 15

	The most I've seen (honest) is about 2.  It'd be really easy
to buy more, but it just doesn't seem to happen very much.  So yes,
it's really easy to keep track of "all 15+" GURPS "stats" because
the extra modifiers are rarely taken...
	Whether or not that's good or bad, well, I guess I can talk
about that in a moment.

>attributes set in a nice, clean 5x3 matrix that is standard for all
>characters?

	I honestly don't like every stuck into numbers.  I do happen
to like Words because it gives a special feel to a character.
You're not Joe Who Has A High Will, you're Joe with the Strong Will
advantage.  This will have different effects on different people,
but most of my players happen to really like it as well.

	On a side note, I've been fiddling with a "sample RPG
system."  (Sample because it's never really going to be run.  It's
merely experimental for my own uses...)  It has a total of 15 stats.
GURPS "possesses" all of these stats, but calls them other things.
Examples:

Determined Stats (point-allocated)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strength
Intelligence
Technical Ability
Dexterity
Agility
Health

Computed Stats (default off of the above, but can be PA'd as well)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hit Points	(=Health)
Stamina		(=Strength)
Movement	(=Agility + Health)
Attractiveness	(don't remember...)
Will		(=[Health + Intelligence]/2)
...etc

	The determined stats really aren't much different from GURPS
stats, although two extras have been added.  The main difference is
that things in GURPS which are purely optional have been converted
into official statistics.  GURPS already has a SPEED, although you
can't really change it.  GURPS has a "stamina."  Stamina is actually
fatigue in GURPS and it's possible to purchase Extra Fatigue to
supplement what you already have.  Will can be altered in GURPS by
taking Strong/Weak will....etc.
	There's also a fine-tuning system which is called aspecting
(for lack of any other term).  You can aspect ANY statistic in ANY
way you want.  If you want a body-builder who only works on his
upper body strength, you can purchase the STRENGTH ASPECT, Upper
Body.  If you want an incredibly good artist who can't understand
science, you can take the INTELLIGENCE ASPECT, Can't Understand
Science....etc.
	There's several problems with this system (#1 reason it'll
never be used).  People might attempt to use aspecting to get loads
of points.  "Ok, I want to make the Psycho Gun dude, so he needs a
high DEX, but I'll negatively aspect everything except for his gun
skill...."  (GURPS doesn't really have aspecting except in very
specific circumstances -- the various perception advantages and the
like.)
	In writing up the system, I found a few things:

	The new "official" stats really didn't add much to the game.
They do add some detail here and there that GURPS may lack, but
overall they don't necessarily add anything special.  I still tend
to prefer the GURPS method of advantages.
	The determined stats were really the same old GURPS stats
with a couple new ones thrown in.  Yeah, I could add in some strange
ones (hmn...forgot to put Charisma in there, eh?) but they didn't
seem to fit.  The main "advantage" that my system had over GURPS
were the computed stats in the end.  They give certain stats more
strength than GURPS gives (thus giving you a reason to put more
points into ST and HT...), while downplaying others that might be
Too Powerful...
	So overall, I still happen to like the GURPS method.  I'll
still fiddle with the aspecting (heck, it SOUNDS neat, but what will
it be like in reality?  Quite possible too complicating...).  I'm
also working on a skill system where you can purchase a "college"
skill, say, like 19th Century Firearms, which gives you a certain
default to all the skills that the college encompasses.  Appropriate
for characters who like to have general knowledge in an area, but
don't care to study a specific skill...
	Well, I think I've said enough.  Gotta run and do some
laundry!  (And take some vitamin C...I'm sick!)

>
>--
>
>Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca