From: glenn@hup.ucla.edu (Glenn Scott)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Neighbors grab property - easement? (summary - long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:24:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA Honors and Undergraduate Programs


Thanks to all of you who responded to my question regarding a neighbor
who engaged a surveyor to stake out about three feet of my property 
two weeks after I closed escrow.

As for my situtation, it's getting complicated enough that I don't
think I can avoid an attorney so I have retained one.  If anyone's
interested, I'll post the summary of what happens when this is all
over.

Here is a summary of the replies.  Again, thanks:

--
I presume that as part of the purchase, title insurance was
acquired.  Read what the documents say about the property.  Consult
the company issuing that insurance.  Hopefully, bringing what is
happening to the attention of the title insurance company will give
you enough information to determine what is really going on.
--
See a lawyer, NOW.  If the property has been that way for 40 years
you have a good case for a prescriptive easement.  You need a lawyer
because the other guys probably have one, and there are all sorts of
claims that can be filed against you without your knowledge.  The
lawyer should be able to dig up anything like that.  You neighbors
will hate you, but that's their problem, for trying to pull a stunt
like this.  You should also ask about sueing the seller for
non-disclosure.  Did you get a survey before you bought?  If so, and
it didn't show this problem, then you've got someone else to
investigate.  The houses were not "built wrong".  See a lawyer.
--        
Hopefully you bought title insurance.  There are two types of title
insurance; one is the policy that the lender requires you buy to
protect them (standard title insurance) and the second is the alta
policy which actually protects you.  

I don't have my Real Estate books in front of me but with both of
those policies you should have some protection if in fact the
preliminary title report indicated the property lines as you
understood them.

Your first stop is the title company.  (I'm assumming that you did
get title insurance) You only had to buy title insurance if you
financed the property thru a lending institution.

Also you Real Estate Agent should be advised of the problem and they
would be my second stop.
--
Most of the time, there is a property-line set-back limit on new
construction (in LA City it is 5 feet) and a set-back from the street
limit.  In most neighborhoods that I have seen, there are few exact
obvious delineations of property lines  (e.g.  I only assume that the
fence is the property line at my house, which means the 2 feet beside
my neighbor's garage that is accessible only from my yard is really
the neighbor's property) (we have that on both sides).  Most zoning
rules also include rules on fences, where they can be put, how high
(of course if a pool is involved, there are minimums).

The property you bought has an exact specification of location (which
should be consistent with the neighbor's specification) that is
determinable only by a proper survey (the courts are full of cases
where different surveys produce different results and in your case
the survey may be right and the new fence may be wrong).  The house
may have been built "off-center" or too close to the property line
(for today's rules), but a correct survey is all that matters.  You
may see remodels where the second floor is shifted by 3 feet (hangs
over on one side, set in on the other).  This is due to the
property-line set-back rules and the initial placement of the house
being "improper."

(Regarding disclosing construction, the number of days notice that
the neighbor must give is short enough that the seller may not
necessarily have been officially aware of it.  If all you manage to
do is postpone the construction you may owe them lots of money for
the costs of postponement.)
--
You're going to have to see a lawyer. Yes, you may well have some
rights to the disputed land, but you'd better assert them quickly.  I
don't believe the sale should have anything to do with your rights. 
What WILL have something to do with your rights is some sort of proof
of the status quo -- how do you know that the land was treated as
your lot's for 40 years.  You should probably have had some document
signed by the previous owner at the closing as a preconditions. 
Anyway, check with a (competent real-estate) lawyer.  Get someone
who's done this before: you don't want to pay for his/her education.
--

I went through a similar situation were a neighbor started digging up
my driveway. They claimed adverse possesion, because they claimed to
have mowed the grass along side the driveway (Which a foot of the
grassy area was mine). Since he could not mow the assfault driveway
he was all wet tearing it up. After 3,000 dollars in lawyer fees he
ended up with 1.5 feet of the 3 feet he tried to take. I regained the
driveway but lost the grass because he had enough petitions from
neighbors claiming he had taken care of the lawn for over 7 years
(Minimum adverse possession claim in Washington State).

Ultimitly we settled out of court because my lawyer said the costs
would be over 6,000 to fight over the last 1.5 feet of land.   
--
Author:        Jordan, Cora, 1941-
Title:         Neighbor law : fences, trees, boundaries and noise / by Cora
                 Jordan ; edited by Mary Randolph ; illustrations by Linda
                 Allison ; with a foreword by Ernest Callenbach. 1st ed. 
                 Berkeley, Calif. : Nolo Press, 1991.
Description:   1 v. (various pagings) : ill. ; 23 cm.
 
Notes:         "Nolo Press self-help law"--Cover.
               Includes bibliographical references and index.
 
Subjects:      Adjoining landowners -- United States -- Popular works.
               Boundaries (Estates) -- United States -- Popular works.
               Fences -- Law and legislation -- United States -- Popular works.
 
Other entries: Randolph, Mary.
--
Perhaps before going to the lawyer, a trip to the tax assessor is in
order to ascertain exactly what the boundaries of your new property
actually are.  You might look up the boundaries of both your
neighbors at the same time.  At the very least, getting the frontage
footage measurements of all three properties along the street can
give you an idea of whether their claims have any validity.

Another thought is the nondisclosure document which sellers are
required to fill in California these days.  I guess that the seller
could claim that he knew nothing about the goings on, but your
original posting casts a fair amount of doubt on that.
--
End of Reply Summaries
--
Glenn Scott
glenn@hup.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate