From: brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill)
Subject: Re: Gates Interview
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 04:39:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.093813.8140@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> pendrith@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Mark Pendrith) writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.235158.28192@fcom.cc.utah.edu> brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>>>>You fail to point out the important fact that your license to use those
>>>>things on that CD ROM expires at the end of December.   IBM is in many ways
>>>>really only whetting your appetite for those things.  (Though of course
>>>>it is useful to developers to get the things in beta form, even if
>>>>it is just for a short period).
>>>>
>>>> [...] The point is there is no
>>>>real comparison between what Microsoft is offering and what IBM is offering
>>>>as your are only allowed the use the IBM stuff for a very limited period of
>>>>time.
>>>>
>>>>Brian
>>>>-- 
>>>
>>>this just isn't true. there is no december time limit on the os/2 dap cd-rom.
>>>i know. i've got it, and i've just reread the licence agreement. who is this 
>>>brian guy and where does he get his misinformation?
>>
>>Ah, but it is true, you just didn't find it.  Below I reproduce part of a
>>letter IBM sent me about the CD-ROM... alas, I am home sick today so I cannot
>>look at the CD-ROM, but I'm sure you'll find a file on it which says
>>this date too.  IBM also said that the code on the CD-ROM was licenced
>>only till December 15 at the OS/2 dev. conf., so you're just wrong here.
>>------------------
>>
>>     "DEVLOPERS CD ROM."  The license for the code contained
>>on the CD-ROM expires December 15,1992.
>>
>>[Just to make sure we're talking about the same CD-ROM, here is the contents:]
>>     The CD-ROM Contains:
>>
>> [contents of dap CD deleted]
>>
>>I mean did you really believe that IBM would give you $2,500+ worth of
>>software for $15 and not put any limitations on it?
>>
>>>Mark Pendrith
>>
>>
>>Brian
>>-- 
>>C. Brian Sturgill                 Microsoft Windows Family of Operating Systems 
>
>Brian, perhaps they have different licencing arrangements in the US, but the 
>AU$60 i paid IBM for dap membership has included the price of the above 
>mentioned CD-ROM (version 1) and the new version (version 2?) which i expect 
>to get in the next few days (after dec 15, perhaps?). no extra charge, (not
>even shipping... they courier these things to my door) and the licence 
>definitely does not expire dec 15. are you trying to tell me that the US
>doesn't get version 2, and Australia does? 
>
>and yes, it is quite reasonable that IBM give me $2500+ worth of software for
>probably less than the cost of the media and shipping, if you realise that IBM
>are far more interested in getting developers to develop programs for os/2, 
>rather than making a few bucks selling them developers kits. (this is the sort
>of foresight and intelligence and commitment that makes me believe that NT
>hasn't got a chance. just an opinion, mind you :-).
>
>maybe the licensing details vary worldwide, but the overall intention is clear:
>IBM are giving developers the os/2 development tools for next to gratis. 
>moreover, this is consistent with a clear and intelligent strategic plan. 
>
>so i still say you are wrong in claiming that the intention of IBM is to
>"whet the appetite" so we'll all go out and buy their development tools. not
>only does this not make sense from a strategic point of view, this just does 
>not tally with the available evidence. 
>
>and further, i still think your original comments smack of classic BS (ie Brian
>Sturgill) misinformation. c'mon, do you really expect us to believe that you're
>THAT ingenuous? these crude attempts at propagandising are pretty transparent, 
>you know. you need to learn subtlety! but all quite entertaining, none the 
>less :-). i look forward to your future efforts.

I never (intentionally) provide mis-information and I resent both
the slur on my name and the statement that I do provide mis-information.

From the license agreement on the back of the CD-ROM called Professional
Developers Kit beta version that I recieved at the October OS/2 developers
conference:

	TERM AND TERMINATION.  Unless IBM notifies you of an earlier
	date (with 14 days notice), your licence for the Kit terminates
	on Dec. 15, 1992.  Upon termination you agree to destroy
	all copies of the Kit. You may terminate your license at
	any time by destroying all your copies of the Program and
	documentation.  IBM may terminate your license if you
	fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this
	agreement.

As I've said all along, the PDK expires on December 15, and is not
nearly as nice a deal as what Microsoft offers with its $69 SDK.  This
PDK is the same as the one they were selling for $15, and that was the
CD-ROM originally discussed in this thread.  Now if you're telling me
they're giving something different elsewhere, then I want to hear about
it, but I strongly suspect you've just overlooked the expiration date.


>- Mark

Brian
-- 
C. Brian Sturgill                          NeXTStep 486 is for _YOU_!!!!
University of Utah                    Microsoft needs competition, but I want
Center for Software Science          to be one of the many running Windows NT!
brian@cs.utah.edu; CIS: 70363,1373    :-) :-) :-)  NT SDK: $69; (800) 227-4679
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy