From: oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil)
Subject: Re: What is gold-digging?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 16:00:19 GMT

rkf@wildrose.infoserv.com (Ray Fink) writes:

>crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

>>If a man asks me out, and I don't know him very well, I assume he's
>>paying.  If he doesn't, he's got no class whatsoever, IMO.  Frankly, it
>>hasn't happened to me (though it did happen to a friend of mine).  

>Three-fourths of the women I've gone out with expected me to pay for 
>everything.  For a while, I put up with that nonsense for a few
>dates, but I found that most women who were willing to share expenses
>at all either insisted on, or offered, sharing right from the start.

You know, it has a lot to do with how a woman is taught.  I would say that
most women are taught to expect the guy to pay.  My folks, on the other hand,
taught me that I should pay my own way in.  When I was first dating as a 
teenager, in fact, my dad would give me the money to cover my share of the
evening.  He told me that the guy wouldn't be able to pull anything like, "I
paid for this date.  Now you /owe/ me something..."

And I've always paid ever since.  Just because I found that most guys were
really relieved that I did do so.  If a guy really acted upset when I tried
to pay my way in to a movie or whatever, I would let him pay.  But I would
tell him that I'd want to pay for him another time.

>That became a useful rule-of-thumb for me...if I ask, I'm prepared to
>pay.  But if it turns out that I do pay, that violates my *default*
>assumption of sharing ...a very bad sign, we're working from different
>assumptions... and reliably (IMExperience) predicts another walletsucker.
>(Or "traditional woman", if you prefer a less loaded term).  Unless
>there are some extenuating circumstances, I don't ask them out again.

I don't necessarily think that "traditional woman" is a "walletsucker."
No doubt, she may be working from a different set of values.  First of all,
I doubt if she asked /you/ out.  She probably figures that since you asked
her out, that you are going to pay for dinner and so on.  I mean, that is
a /reasonable/ assumption.

>So if you and I were to have gone out on a date, it's highly unlikely
>that I would call you again; probably the right thing for both of us 
><not intended as a venomous remark>.  

>>If it's not a first date, I'll usually offer to pay my way, depending on 
>>the guy -- some guys would rather _always_ pay; others like to split the 
>>bill.  Usually, though, I end up with guys who, if they ask me out, plan
>>on paying.  In those cases, I'll usually offer to leave the tip or buy
>>dessert.

Some guys are extremely offended by the girl offering to pay for her share.
Other guys (most it seems) are relieved.  It means that she likes the 
pleasure of their company.

>>I imagine it would be different if I asked a man out, but that isn't my
>>style.  

>>Now that I've been seeing someone for over a year, we rarely do the
>>traditional "date" thing; I'll pay for lunch this time, he'll pay next
>>time, I'll cook, he'll cook, whatever.  Occasionally we still do the
>>formal "date," we go somewhere special and he pays.  Otherwise, whoever
>>happens to have money at the time pays, or we split it.  

>>So, would any guys out there in net.land consider any of this 
>>"gold-digging"?  I'm honestly not very familiar with the term.

I think that over time, the "dating" stops.  My ex-SO and I would "cocoon"
in the apartment: we'd order pizza, get some movies, etc.  One would pay
for the pizza.  The other for the movies.  Etc.

>IMO, no, but the assumption that "he pays" in any exceptional situation
>does raise a flag.  Two mild examples from my experience (and I'm sure 
>other net.men can top these):
>- when she asked me out and then expected me to pay

tacky - on her part

>- when I suggested I'll buy dinner if you'll spring for the movie her
>indignant response was "I've never paid on a date in my life and I'm
>not about to start now!"

if you asked, she had a right to be indignant

if she asked, she was being outrageously rude

>Oh yeah, I probably do have no class whatsoever, I don't even open
>car doors for women.  Another useful sorting criterion, I've found ;-)

You and I should talk.  I'll usually let a guy open the car door, if he
insists, but it really, really, really ANNOYS the hell out of me. 

>-- 
>-- Ray

Sharon
oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu

Xref: sparky soc.singles:34064 ba.singles:2648