HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: distance a .22 lr travels
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:14:45 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <1992Nov17.122407.5488@nntp.hut.fi> mjalava@lk-hp-17.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:
#In article <1992Nov16.220548.10244@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#
##Well, I don't believe I've ever heard of or seen anyone try to
##wingshoot birds with a rifle.  The shotgun won't carry far (200
##yds? for birdshot).
#
#In Finland many hunters shoot game birds sitting in trees. As .22
---------------------deleted-----------------

#
With all the talk about ground-sluicing birds, I'm
surprised no-one has brought up wingshootin deer.
In Western Washington state, the most common game is the
western flying blacktail, indigenous to the forests of the
Western slopes of the Cascade Mountains.

The flying blacktail is not a true flying deer, but is
instead a soarer, gliding from tree to tree, or from tree
to ground, with some bouyant action from the animal's
flight bladder.  

The actual aerodynamic surfaces are not true wings, but are
large flaps of skin stretched between front and hind legs,
in the fashion of the flying squirrel.  The flight bladder,
which gives the deer buoyancy, is a modified rumen, or
stomach, located under the animal`s belly and chest.  This
bladder is inflated with gaseous digestion products, mostly
hydrogen, methane, and hydrogen sulfide, in a
lighter-than-air mixture.

In flight, with legs extended and flight bladder inflated,
the animal looks like a cross between a hairy kite and the
Goodyear elk.  When threatened, the deer can decrease
bouyancy, increase speed, and drop to cover by the simple
expedient of expelling stored gas from the flight bladder
with sufficient velocity that Newtonian reaction
accelerates the animal.  Although the characteristic
ripping sound of this expulsion  would at first seem to
allow predators or hunters to locate this ballistic
venison, eye-watering due to exhaust gases makes the deer
hard to find.

Because of the soaring flight, most deer hunting involves
pass shooting with, of course, buckshot.  When such a shot
is made, there is little concern (acknowledging this
thread) with the remaining trajectory of the shot.
Instead, the remaining trajectory of the deer becomes the
major safety issue, for the punctured animal follows the
rapid and erratic path of an inflated, released balloon.

Although occasional hunter deaths are recorded from falling
venison (known locally as Fthbbbbbbbbbbbwhap(sp?)), the
near miss is common, and a source of jocularity, with rude
noises and the hand-waving gestures seen in the movie
"Blazing Saddles."  


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: smpod@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Looking for a .308 self-loader
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:36 GMT
Organization: who knows

In article <9211192055.AA29033@panix.com>, justice@panix.com (Michael Justice) writes...
# 
#I'm looking for a .308 (7.62 NATO) self-loader.  I'd prefer
#one with detachable mags.  The only models I've heard of so
#far are HK-91, the HK SR-7 (?) and the LAR-A1.  I'd appreciate
#comments on these or others, both positives and negatives.

How about the m14 and fn fal and their clones?
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:39:34 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#As to what you tell the cops - ASK YOUR LAWYER.  Few of the fine folks following
#this group are practicing criminal lawyers.  If you do employ lethal force,
#insist on legal counsel before discussing anything with anybody.  It's your
#right.  They might not like it, but the good guys are entitled to the same
#privileges as the bad guys.

Also, the fact that you refused to speak until counsel was present cannot be used
against you in court.

Big mistake not to make :

    Assume that you can "simplify" things by talking about it, that they will then
    understand, and you will have saved yourself the need for an attorney. 

Thing to be aware of :

    The police are aware of the suspect's (that's you if you in a shooting!!!) shock
    and desire to talk to someone about it, and will try to make effective use of the
    first hour after the incident.  (that's why they don't just put in a cell overnite
    and have the day shift sort it out).

For further reading :

    Articles and police texts on the science of interrogation technique.  I read a 
    most interesting article about the "theme development" technique in a security
    magazine a copy gave me.  A long review owuld take some time, but a key point is
    to remember that the interrogating officer emphathizine with you may be just 
    working to build a rapport ameniable to your "confession".

Final thing to remember :

    If you are involved in a shooting, you are a SUSPECT IN A FELONY.
From: chaos@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Answering the door at 11PM, without a gun. . .
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:21 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston


vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:

[big snip here]

# Assuming that a person does NOT possess a firearm, what it the best
# approach for dealing with a stranger at the door at 11PM?

Having been there, let me explain what I did.

At the door, at about 11pm, was a not-obviously-armed person I did not
recognize.  In Harlem, NY.  I alerted the people in the house, including my
Dad.  I then took a cane we have at the door for this purpose, raised it to
a position that made it usable as a weapon, and opened the door slightly.
My large and vicious-looking dog picked this moment to present himself.

"Do you I know you?" <or do I have to beat your head in> was how I greeted
this person.

To my embarassment, he was my little sister's friend's father.  I let him
in :-).

I have since come to grips with my potentially stupid tactical position of
having opened the door, by rationalising that Mr. Kopelson is slightly
built and looks about as fierce as a puppy.  He also had both hands in
view, and would have found it difficult to draw a weapon before I knocked
him down the steps with my stick :-).

# I'm still waiting for an Rescue_911 segment where an intruder breaks
# down the front door of a NRA member/ISP shooting champion "This special
# episode of Rescue_911 is titled, From_The_Ayoob_File's"  :-)

Me too :-).



Mike


-- 
Michael A. Atkinson    | "I'm wearing this hat because I don't want 
asbestos@nwu.edu       |  my brain to ears out my ooze." - Jeff B.

            A Libertarian and an NRA member.
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:12 GMT
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC

In <viking.722225914@vincent2.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

#rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:

##Personally, I would not use a flashlight in my own home.  First, it tells
##the bad guy where you are and destroys your peripheral vision.  Second, you
##already have the advantage of knowing the layout of your home.

How about using an ultra-violet or blacklight flashlight? This should
cause stuff to glow in the dark (like the punk's t-shirt), without
generating a bright here-I-am signal. You can't see the blacklight
source unless you are looking at it. Mix that in with the
homeowners knowledge of the home, and that should be effective.

Comments?

#	I'm amazed nobody brought it up already -- turn on the room light.
#The switches are usually located near convenient doorways to hide behind,
#and your perp has no idea where the switch that turned on that *&*^$ light
#is at.  It will take him just as long as you to adjust his eyes to the
#light, and perhaps less as the natural reaction is to squeeze your eyes
#shut in pain if you're not ready for it.  Since you have a good idea of
#where he is anyway, and know the layout of the room, the light will not
#give you away most likely (unlike a flashlight), will illuminate the
#whole room, and you can flick it off again should you feel better off
#not trying to hold him at that time.

#	Naw, it's too simple.  What am I missing?

He will hear the switch go "click", and probably turn towards
the door (and maybe shoot), because as you note above, the switches are 
usually near the door. Bad guys know this too.


#	[MODERATOR:  A related suggestion, passed along at the risk of
#	 giving away too much of our own tactical plans ... we installed
#	 an, hmm, enhanced version of those X10 home control systems. In
#	 our safe room(s) we can flood the whole house with light, very
#	 selectively (and largely automatically... :-)  Our intent is not
#	 only to make the back-lit Bad Guy look astonishingly like a B-27
#	 target, but also make him feel that way too.  With a little fooling
#	 around you can also set up alternate programs for use when you get
#	 home (rather than for when you ARE at home and need to dig in.)]

I am waiting for a inexpensive motion sensing spotlight that tracks
the motion source. That way you don't have to know where he is, but
he will think you do.


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Answering the door at 11PM, without a gun. . .
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:50 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

This isn't necessarly a "gun" topic, but is more of a home
security question.

I've been watching Rescue_911 for several years now.  Last night
they had a segment on which was similar to several other segments
they have carried in the past.  The sequence goes like this.

 1) A woman is home alone, usually at night.

 2) Stranger comes to the door and rings the bell or knocks.

 3) Woman peeks out through the corner of the window and realizes that
    she doesn't know the person, or that the person is suspicious looking,
    or doesn't see anybody at door.

 4) Woman doesn't answer the door, doesn't turn on any lights,
    doesn't make any noise which might indicate that the house
    is occupied.

 5) Minutes later the woman hears some glass break, and a burglar
    enters the house.

 6) Woman calls 911 and waits 5-10 minutes before being rescued.
    (In last nights segment, the dispatcher asked the woman if
    she had any weapons available.  Being a PC TV show, she didn't).

 My question is: To some degree were these women "victims" of
 poor tactics on their part? (not to imply that they deserved
 to be robbed).  By not turning on a light, or by making it
 obvious that the home is occupied, do they "convince" the 
 intruder that the home is empty and hence safe to rob?

 I can understand that some of these women might be concerned about
 letting a strange person know that they are home alone.  But as
 a result do they accomplish just the opposite of what they attemted
 to do.

 If someone comes to the door at night, or if the dogs indicate that
 they hear/see someone around the house, I'll usually flip on the
 exterior light, or shine a flashlight out the window.  It just seems
 that going to a door and ringing the bell is SOP for some burglars
 before making entry.  I also have the luxury of having a 2nd floor
 balcony above and to the right of my front door, so I can check out
 who is at the door, and talk to them before opening the door.
 Of course not all homes allow for this.

 Assuming that a person does NOT possess a firearm, what it the best
 approach for dealing with a stranger at the door at 11PM?

 I'm still waiting for an Rescue_911 segment where an intruder breaks
 down the front door of a NRA member/ISP shooting champion "This special
 episode of Rescue_911 is titled, From_The_Ayoob_File's"  :-)

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

------------------------------------------
Anti-Gun President, Anti-Gun Congress,
Better buy what you want BEFORE Dec 31.
----------------------------------------
From: wixer!wixer.cactus.org!will@cs.utexas.edu (Bill Staniewicz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: x-country skiing and target shooting
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:55:48 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications

I don't recall the name for this sport but
I remember that it involves x-country skiing and
target shooting with a rifle. It was part of the
winter olympics.

My questions are:

What is the name of this sport?
Outside of olympic competition are there any opportunities
to compete?
What type of rifle and ammo is used?

Thank you.

-- 
Bill
will@wixer.cactus.org
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 in a 9mm
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:20:39 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

mac@cis.ksu.edu (Myron A. Calhoun) writes:

# I saw a revolver just this morning advertised to shoot both .357 Magnum
# and 9mm.  The owner said it had two cylinders (because the 9mm cartridge
# is shorter) but used the same barrell.
# 
# Now I'm curious why I can't shoot 9mm in the same revolver which already
# shoots .357 Magnum and the 0.1" shorter .38 Special.  Just how much
# shorter is a 9mm cartridge?

The overall length for the .357 is 1.590 inches while the 9mm 1.169
inches. That's a lot of cylinder gap to jump. I would also assume
that the 9mm cylinder is set up to use half or full moon clips to
hold the 9mm cartridges in place. I wouldn't think that a 9mm would
shoot very well out of a .357 barrel, since it is only .355.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Fletchette
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:50:52 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9211181018.aa22003@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

}Flechettes are made of steel, like their cousins nails :)
}
}And no they are NOT illegal for civilians, ...

They are in California.

CPC 12020:  It is illegal to manufacture, sell or possess ... any
ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart ...

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: apskato@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Single-action police sidearm
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:24:31 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <1992Nov22.220016.24765@wixer.cactus.org>, wixer!wixer.cactus.org!will@cs.utexas.edu (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
# I dont recall where I read this, but
# I understand there is currently a police
# department in a small community that issues
# single-action sidearms to their officers. I
# am not sure if this is "standard" issue for
# that department or whether it is just an option.
# 
# Has anyone else heard about this?

There are a variety of departments that don't use mainstream sidearms.  Heck, I
even noticed that some of the officers in southern california (I lived there
briefly) were using single action autos (M1911 or something similar I suspect).

I would guess that the department probably doesn't issue the single action
weapons, but rather has a rather liberal "carry list".  But I guess I wouldn't
be surprised if I found that they were issueing weapons.  I have heard of
officers carrying desert eagles before, so nothing would surprise me at this
point :)

Eric Huber
Mankato State University
Law Enforcement Program
From: popovich@morningside.cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:18 GMT

# 17 shots and only three hits?!?  Is that typical?!?  The story is tragic but
# what happened to the other 14 rounds?

I was wondering that, too.  Also, I saw another article today, and
they're now saying that the officer with the Glock "fired all 15 slugs
in his clip."  If correct, that would total 21 shots, and would mean
that both officers basically emptied their guns upon perceiving a
threat.  I'm beginning to doubt how well-trained these officers
actually were, but then again, they were there and I wasn't.  Today's
article does say that only one of the five officers involved, the
partner of the officer who was shot, had had special training in
plainclothes operations.

Apparently, from today's follow-up article, there were several strikes
against the cop who was shot:

	(1) The area where the shooting took place was very dark; the
	    shooting occurred practically under a broken streetlight.
	(2) The officer who was shot was black, which is causing
	    further controversy.  It is unknown whether the shooters
	    (could have) seen this, because of (1).
	(3) It looks as though he did something STOOPID.  They are now
	    saying that the shot cop TURNED TOWARD the other officers
	    after being warned not to move, while they were approaching
	    him from behind.

So even though the shot officer's partner called out to one of the
three officers who were approaching them -- whom he had recognized by
her voice when she yelled, "Police!  Don't move!" -- this apparently
happened too late to save his partner from being shot when he moved
after having been told not to.  This third officer who was recognized,
by the way, did NOT shoot when the other two did.
From: SAPX@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu (Steve)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 38.S&W
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:38:54 GMT

I've got a real nice Colt Police Positive thats real fun and
real EXPENSIVE to shoot---- Answer? Reload!!! Now, can anybody
out there suggest a load? Is there a "best " powder? I've been
leaning toward bullseye. 3 grains behind a 150 gr. lead bullet
was suggested to me by a friend. I want to load to factory spec.
Any old timers out there???
                              Thanx,
                                    Steve
From: hudson@ualr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns?
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:15:02 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

In article <9211110833.aa02917@sco1.qdeck.com>, burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
# In article <1992Nov8.083354.24874@netcom.com> tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler) writes:
# #In <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
# #
# #
# ##Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
# ##for defence?
# #
# #	There is at least one: the Benelli M1 Super 90.
# #
# 
# Make that TWO - I love my Beretta 1200FP.
# 
# Bill	burge@qdeck.com
-- 

In a discussion with a Texas Ranger a few years ago, he mentioned a course
of fire that they had to go through to qualify, I think it was each year.
There were several "weird events" in this course, on being hanging out of 
the door of a Texas  DPS helicopter and flying over a target range while 
shooting a shotgun at points on the ground.  I asked what kind of shotgun 
they were using, since I can't imagine working a pump in that environment.
He indicated that each Ranger is issued his choice of a Remington 870 pump 
or a Remington 1100 auto in "riot" configuration.  He used the 1100, and 
found it to be better for the helicopter runs (I know I woul{, too, if you 
could get me in the door of a helicopter, then I could hold on, -8).

BTW  They also have a choice in rifles of a Ruger Mini-14 or the Colt  AR15
(which would you choose?).

Keith
___________________________________________________________

Keith Hudson		hudson%eivax@ualr.edu	(best)
   N5EEZ		mkhudson@ualr.edu	(secondary)
-----------------------------------------------------------
          University of Arkansas at Little Rock
      Department of Electronics and Instrumentation
___________________________________________________________
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 Custom Handgun Info Request
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:21 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Nov16.141911.2335@news.yale.edu>, by watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt):
# 
# In article <5868@rosie.NeXT.COM>, robert_walton@NeXT.COM (Robert Walton) writes:
# |> 
# |> A quick sanity check.
# |> 
# |> I've recently seen some very impressive custom work done to Ruger .22  
# |> autos by Lee Baker of Phelan CA.  Lee and his work are profiled in the  
# |> 1993 Gun Digest gunsmiths guide.  Question is, will the investment in a  
# |> custom Ruger be a sound one should I ever decide to get rid of it?  And is  
# |> the Ruger a good pistol to buy for a .22 semi-auto (Ruger politics aside)?
# |> 
# |> Some data for your consideration:
# |> 
# |> Ruger Mark II?, Stainless, bull barrel, with the following:
# |> 
# |> "Butter" Action Job and tuning
# |> Internal parts deburred, polished
# |> Custom sights
# |> Custom XXX fancy target grips
# |> High Polish stainless finish overall
# |> "Bead-blasted" frame with decorative high polish icons (sun, moon, rabbit,  
# |> etc...)
# |> Jeweled receiver slide, trigger
# |> 
# |> What would be a fair price for something like this, IYO?  I'm going to the  
# |> gun show in a couple of weeks and would like to hear some opinions between  
# |> now and then.
#

Volquartsen (sp?) has several "standard" setups.  I believe I
have seen one test in the gun mags and they are quite accurate.
I too would be interested in someone's experience, especially
someone who has used one of these and one of the "super" olympic
pistols. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Hungarian Model 61 .380ACP?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:14:05 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center


    I've been seeing some ads for these pistols in _SGN_ for about
  $130, and they look like quite a deal - PPK clones with alloy frame/
  steel slide, in .380 ACP instead of 9x18 Makarov.  Has anyone on the
  net had a chance to shoot one of these yet?  I'd be interested in
  impressions, opinions, whatever, from anyone who has even handled one
  of these.

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Flash (was Re: Ammonium Nitrate)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:20:08 GMT

A coupla things:

M80 is given as 3 grams, in a note cross referencing various (national) limits
for load.

M80 (originally) was an M-80 grenade simulator, a military issue item.  I have
seen the manual with the listing.  The number is just sequential, not a load
indicator.

I don't have data (that i can find) for 1/4 and 1/2 sticks.  Anybody could scale
from the dimesions of an M-80, allowing for the fact that flash salutes are
never loaded "full".  30% free volume comes to mind.

The compounds i have seen listed for "exploding targets" (AFN had one) are,
essentially, "Armstrongs Mixture", one of the few things commonly used that is
spookier than flash.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass		01775	pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles