HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pab@cs.arizona.edu (Peter A. Bigot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers
Subject: Factory Buyback Car Sales
Summary: comments? experiences?
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:41:57 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

So our local credit union has "negotiated a great deal" for us, wherein for
one day only we get low interest rates on (Ford?) factory buybacks.
"Factory Buybacks" are defined as "option-loaded vehicles which have been
repurchased from companies such as Hertz and Budget, after approximately
4-10 months of rental service with an average of 10k to 18k miles."  It
_looks_ like the sale is being run by a non-fly-by-night operation (the
Dealers Auto Exchange of Tucson), though I'll look into that separately.

This sounds like a pretty decent, hassle-free way to get a car with all the
candy on it.  What aren't they telling us?

Specifically, what are the pros and cons of this sort of sale, and generally
of buying former rental cars?  What should I look out for while there
(telltale warning signs, etc.)?  Any personal experience stories out there?
(Pointers to currently on-sale Consumer Reports guides or some such would be
fine.)

Please reply by email, though I'll try to track posted responses as well.
(Note: Followups set to misc.consumers).  I'll post or mail summaries if
there's enough interest; if you don't want your response included, or want
your name removed from it, please say so explicitly.

Thanks.

Peter
--
                     Peter A. Bigot -- pab@cs.arizona.edu
          Dept. of Computer Science, University of Arizona, Tucson AZ
---------------------------- The current quote is: ----------------------------
 "That's all for now.  This is Miss Lidia, saying: 'Bye-bye'--and remember,
		 the better you look, the more you'll see."
From: jim@mwhhlaw (James P. Cavanaugh III)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:08:48 GMT
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth

Any car I can think of will outperform an early Mustang in ice and  
snow.  The old Mustangs were just too light in the back end and would  
get stuck on the slightest provocation.  My old 67 Galaxie convertible,  
on the other hand, was well balanced and thus good in the snow.  The  
5200 pound 63 Cadillac I had after the Galaxie was even better.

Jim Cavanaugh
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dlawlor@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Doug Lawlor)
Subject: Re: Need help finding...
Keywords: Saturn bra
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:46:01 GMT


I thought that you could get a manule from the GM dealership to fix
those plastic pannels.  
Doug
Internet: dlawlor@morgan.ucs.mun.ca


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: u1040448@keystone.arch.unsw.edu.au (C Ma)
Subject: Re: Exotic Cars
Organization: Faculty of Architecture, UNSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:47:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.164250.5254@oracle.us.oracle.com> alaw@uucp (Alvin W. Law) writes:
>
>You'll never ever see exotic cars going over 65 mph on the freeways
>and 15 mph on the street.  Most exotic cars are meant for showing off.
>
>BTW, my favorite is Diablo...
>

Hmmm..., how about a McLaren F1? :)
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: JEEPS- Want to buy used. Many reliability questions.
Date: 13 Oct 1992 17:00:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   I'm currently looking to buy a used Jeep for under $3000. Many of the Jeeps
in this price range for sale have high miles on them. Just how many miles can
you put on the various engine models before they probably need a rebuild? Also,
what should I be looking for in terms of common areas for rust, leaks, faulty
parts, etc, etc. What engines seem to be the most reliable? What transmissions
seem to offer the best off-road performance? 
-- 
George Bush? He doesn't have a clue anymore. Bill Clinton? A slick smile and
a pandering style. Neither one is being realistic about what it is going to
take. The answer..........? ROSS FOR BOSS! VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT FOR PRESIDENT!
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
From: SteveWall@aol.com (Steve Wall)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: ALLOY WHEELS - why?
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:26:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Distribution: na
Organization: Not if I can help it.

In article <1992Oct5.165556.3146@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>,
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) wrote:
> 
> In article <25860@oasys.dt.navy.mil> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense) writes:
> >In rec.autos, ebergman@phaedrus.East.Sun.COM (Eric Bergman) writes:
> >>I know zilch about alloy wheels.  What do they do for you?
> >>What are the pro's and con's of alloy wheels?
> 
I came into this discussion late, so don't flame me if this one's a
repeat:

Alloy wheels make better heatsinks for your brakes.  So your brakes
cool faster and resist fading better.

Happy Motoring!

Steve Wall
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Im going to be sick...
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:48:00 GMT

In article <DP00RB4w164w@cellar.org>, blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
|> In (todays) USA today (Oct, 7th) on page 3A, there is a small article, "No 
|> Foreign Cars".
|> 
|> Drivers of foreign-made cars in the Flint. Mich., beware.  Begeining Monday 
|> only US made cars will be allowed in the City Hall Basement garage.  Flint 
|> Mayor Woodrow Stanley said he issued the order to send a message to buy 
|> American.  And he says he might designate other city lots for US only cars.  
|> General Motors is the city's largest employer with 50,000 local workers, 
|> whose taxes, Satnley says, help pay city workers' salaries.
|> 
|> (reprinted without perm.  All typos-gram errors be mine.)
|> 
|> As I said... I feel sick.. is THIS what it has come to?  How long before I 
|> get beat up for driving my VW to work?  Or my mother, grandmother, and 
|> friends who *all* drive "Non US Made cars"?  This is really sick, and has 
|> gone too far.  The American people are NOT to blame for lacking US auto 
|> sales, but rather the US Automakers, who *still* refuse to get the picture of 
|> what a *good* car is.

In the first place, I agree that prohibiting foreign cars in city parking lots
is absurd.   Having said that, I do disagree with your comments about who's
really at fault.

The majority of automotive consumers were fat, dumb, and happy with what
Detroit was producing until the 70's when emissions, oil shortages, and
rampant inflation made the smaller car finally attractive (or at least
pallitable) to a majority of people.  

When the public finally swung left (or was it right?) the only major source
of smaller cars was Japan/Europe.  Detroit takes about 4 years to develop
a new car model (Japan claims 3 years).  On top of the shift in demand, the
requirements to meet stricter government controls (which the general public
also wanted in a round-around way) put a much heavier economic and resource
load on Detroit.  The majority of their product was to be sold under these
restrictions.  The foreign makers still had their home markets to fuel their
growth.  Detroit lost a lot of ground.  So, who is too blame?

I firmly believe that Detroit is getting a raw deal from many people who 
have just simply put on their blinders and can only see Japanese.  I have
owned 3 Japanese cars and will never buy another.  The only real lemon 
that I have ever owned was the used '75 Honda Civic I bought in 1977. 
I now stick to German and American cars.  Currently own VW and GM.

There are probably others who are tired of the Detroit bashing and would
like to see people start thinking about why they buy a car again.   But,
like we agree ...... mandating what kind of cars you can park in the city
lots is definitely going too far!

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Mustang GT vs. Mustang LX 5.0
Originator: sew@condor
Reply-To: sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:19:58 GMT


In article <1at639INNq8a@introl.introl.com>, pete@introl.com (Pete Ikusz) writes:
|> I think the difference is more with the LX 5.0 notchback rather
|> than the hatchback. That is where a lot of the weight is lost.
|> 
|> -Pete
|> -- 
|> -------------------------------------------------------
|> Pete Ikusz	Introl Corporation	pete@introl.com

  The most significant difference is between the coupe(notchback) and the GT,
 
 but the LX hatch is the most aerodynamic of the three.


  -----
  scott
From: pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Honda/Acura mailing list changed - I missed the posting
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:13:14 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

The subject says it all.  The furious pace of news at my site nuked
the message before I could read it (I just saw the subject in 'nn' ).

Please email me the new subscription info.


-- 
+--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
    Pascal Gosselin        |     Communications Accessibles Montreal  
    pascal@CAM.ORG         |  A non-profit corporation.  Newsfeeds & More.   
  Apple Support Specialist |  For info: info@CAM.ORG or Voice (514) 923-2102
From: groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves )
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: about to buy '85 MR2.  Good or bad move?
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:38 GMT
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA


Greetings.

I am considering buying an 85 MR2 from my fiancee's uncle.

He is religious about how he cares for his cars, so I know it
has been maintained.  Car and Driver loved this car.  Consumer
reports says that it is very reliable and includes it on their
list of recommended used cars.  I've wanted one for years...

Is there some dark evil waiting to get me if I buy it?  I'd
appreciate all advice/info including anticdotal stories.  
Do those of you who own one enjoy it as much as you thought you
would?  I've probably got about six more child-less years before
I need more room and have to buy a mini-van... ;)

Thanks,

Lee




-- 
Lee J. Groves, National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ
Usenet:   {arizona,decvax,ncar}!noao!lgroves or  uunet!noao.edu!lgroves
Internet: lgroves@noao.edu         SPAN/HEPNET:  draco::lgroves
Phonenet: 602-325-9357
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mlleung@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Johnson Leung Man Leung)
Subject: Seek advice on Nissan Sentra 84
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:23:18 GMT

Hi,

	Can somebody give me an advice on a 1984 Nissan Sentra? It is 4 door, ps/pb, cruise control, automatic transmission. It runs for 103,000 km. I have taken a look on the car. It looks new (at least no rust), because the owner takes the car to Nissan every year to have it checked.

	There is some vibration or "tumbling" when I test it in highway. Is it because of the fact that the car is light? Or is there problem inside?

	It asks for CAD$2,500. Can somebody please give advice on that? Thank you very much.

Best Regards,
Johnson

P.S. It looks like a small wagon
From: srj@key.COM (Scott R. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saab 900i Problems?
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:29:58 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Advanced Systems, Fremont CA

In article <3935@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> In article <1992Oct12.152315.3423@u.washington.edu> basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:
> >Would you two please take this somewhere else?
> 
> 	Not until I've convinced *every* *reader* of rec.autos never, never,
> ever to buy a Saab.  
> 

Well,  you're the *one* data point that has said to not buy one, and I've got about a dozen that 
recommend otherwise.  Not to mention the recent dialog in this group, which, to say the least,
doesn't exactly lend credibility to the argument...

Any car can be a lemon.  If I'm getting 12 to 1 buy versus don't buy ratio, that's pretty telling in of 
itself...

-- 
  --srj           A lunatic is merely a minority of one.
       o_O                                                            --Orwell
      =( ) =      ------------------------------------------------------------
        U   Ack!  Scott Johnson  Amdahl Adv. Sys. srj@key.amdahl.com  623-2333
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: vines@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Ken Vines)
Subject: Re: Pontiac Fiero problems?
Keywords: Fiero, problems
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:47:15 GMT

My 85 Fiero is running great with 85K in the odometer
but not without some past problems. At 51K, I had to
replace the intake manifold gasket. Oil and coolant
really do mix! The dealer wanted $2K to fix the
problem, but a friend and I fixed it in a couple of
weekends for $100. Also had problems with ignition
coil (I think it's a heat problem). And yes, my
emergency brake doen't work (and probably the rear
brakes as well since they are somehow adjusted by
the emergency). 
Anyway for now, I plan on driving it as long as
I can to get my $14K out of it. It's a blast to
drive, sounds neat, no car door dings (plastic
panels), good factory stereo and NO PAYMENTS!
I have the 2.8L V6. No fires yet. It's able
to dust CRXs with ease. 
Would I do it again (or buy a used one)? Probably
not. But it's not such a bad car as its reputation
would lead you to believe.

Xref: sparky rec.autos:24112 rec.audio.car:4245
From: c60b-1hy@web-1f.berkeley.edu (Albert Wu)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.audio.car
Subject: Detachable face decks
Date: 15 Oct 1992 23:15:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: web-1f.berkeley.edu

Is a detachable face deck a good buy?  And is it really a good security
measure compared to a pullout?  A salesman at a store mentioned that he
wouldn't recommend a detachable face deck alone but with a securtiy system.
But then again he could have been trying to make another sale.

Does anybody know the policies Pioneer and Kenwood have concerning
replacing the faces?  ie.  If someone were to steal a detachable face deck
without the face, how easy/hard would it be for the thief to get a new face?

Albert Wu
UC Berkeley
c60b-1hy@web.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:25:51 GMT

Being a believer in raw data, I took a look at the results of the Solo II
autocross last month and found:

                   Total     RWD Stock   FWD Stock   All RWD    All FWD
Entries:           96        47          13          81         15
Best laptime:      43.413    46.897      48.565      43.413     48.565
Worst laptime:     58.258    57.923      56.972      58.258     56.972
Average laptime:   51.216    51.965      52.337      51.001     52.379

Gee! I guess RWD does handle better.  The best stock RWD car (a Corvette)
was a whole 1.67 seconds faster than the fastest stock FWD (a Chevy Beretta
with Quad-4 engine).  On average the stock RWD's were a whopping 0.37
seconds (0.7%) faster than the average stock FWD!  Obviously everyone
should roar out and spend 3X as much money to get this performance
advantage ;-)

For the record the non-stock cars were typically something that was 
rolled off a trailer and not the kind of stuff you would drive to and
from work each day (either legally or otherwise).

The top 1/3 fastest FWD cars were all faster than the bottom 2/3
of the RWD.   When the dust settles and the smoke clears (after the
Corvettes finish;-)  it really doesn't make a hill of beans whether
you're driving FWD or RWD -- you just have to know how to drive it.

Another arguement I have seen thrown around is the old "why don't
you see FWD in NASCAR or Indy cars?"   The answer is --- the rules
and aerodynamics!   The only way to get FWD in an Indy car would be
mount the engine in the back and run a drive shaft between the
legs of the driver  -- lousey weight distribution and high drive
line losses.  Besides you would want the larger tires on the front.
It might be interesting to note that the Indy 500 was won 6 times by
FWD in the 30-40's.  

NASCAR is more subtle about it -- rules say you have to use the same
wheel/tire sizes on front and back -- RWD is a better distribution of
tire stress in this case.  Besides NASCAR is about as far from reality
as Star Trek.   RWD Lumina's for pete's sake!?   Anybody who thinks
NASCAR car's represent street machines needs a total mental exam!

Bottom line:
* Everyday people can get nearly equal performance from either.
* Professional racing has no correlation to reality.
* There are some really bad FWD cars.
* There are some really bad RWD cars.

I have owned 27 different cars over my driving career:
7 rear-engine RWD, 9 FWD, 11 front-engine RWD.
At least 11 were rallied or autocrossed.
I fail to see any dramatic difference in drive-train layout
that could not be handled by learning how to drive the car.

Mark
===========================================================================
In God we trust, all others bring data.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Nissan-Datsun Stanza Altima
From: <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:56:00 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

Here are the base retail prices of Nissan's new Altima sedan:

Nissan Altima XE    $12,999
Nissan Altima GXE   $14,024
Nissan Altima SE    $16,524
Nissan Altima GLE   $18,349
   Freight is $350


On the name:

From what I understand, the US requires a company to register the name of all
 new automobile imports by a certain date.  Nissan apparently had not decided
 on the "Altima" name when they had to register this new model so they went
 with "Stanza."  Basically, it was some sort of US registration requirement.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mvelasco@fraser.sfu.ca (Matthew Velasco)
Subject: Mercedez Benz W???
Summary: Body codes
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:45:20 GMT

Can someone post a list of what the body codes of Benzs?  W201 = 190E etc...

Thanks in advance.

Matt
mvelasco@sfu.ca

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: duggan@cc.gatech.edu (Rick Duggan)
Subject: Re: Two articles on seat belts
Reply-To: duggan@cc.gatech.edu (Rick Duggan)
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:40:55 GMT

In article <5565@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>
>I've never liked the grandfathering that is implicit in all clean-air laws
>and safety laws.  Old cars are now a tiny percent of all operating vehicles,
>but they are now responsible for almost 90% of the pollution cars emit.  Rather
>than taking this as a reason to condemn old cars, gov't instead takes it as
>justification for tightening the screws even more on new cars, driving up the
>prices and reducing the incentive to upgrade old smokers for newer, more
>fuel efficient, less polluting, safer cars.  Yes, I think it _is_ reasonable
>to require that older cars be retrofitted with equipment required of newer
>ones - or condemn them outright.

I just had to comment on this point.  I hate to use the unsubstantiated
"I saw it somewhere" but in this case, I will.  I was watching some
television program (likely PrimeTime Live or 20/20) about a device
that had been invented to measure the level of pollutants in 
automobile exhaust.  Instead of expensive yearly testing, though,
this device could be placed on the side of the road and could
work as cars drove by.  The EPA tried to debunk this and defend
expensive inspections with the following statement:

Well, todays' cars have very complex pollution management systems,
with devices such as catalytic converters, and so this device
is ineffective.

I about fell out of my chair laughing.  Excuse me, but after passing
through all that gee-whiz circuitry and whatnot, the exhaust is
still gasses leaving through a tailpipe.  Like the gasses know
that they've been through a "modern" car and so can't be detected.
Now, the device itself may not work, but if it does, it would work
on new cars as well as old.  Besides, most of the worst polluters
are older cars...

-rick


"Random acts of violence just don't do it for me anymore.  Call it 
 maturity.  Bang!  Bang!  Heh, heh." - Cactus Jack, WCW Saturday Night 07/04/92
Rick Duggan | duggan@cc.gatech.edu | CS4804A-D/CS1501 TA - Section C
Office Hours: TBA
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Pontiac Fiero problem
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:45:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
Reply-To: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 

  >Ford is #1 in the domestic car market because they are pedalling
  >rebadged Mazdas... :-)

Don't forget Yamahahahaha! ;-)

- Dave Bonds 
- Internet : David.Bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us
---
 . KingQWK 2.00 .6 # 145 . Let's get this SHO on the road!
         
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Maxda Protege -- 60,000 mile tuneup
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 03:39:30 GMT
Keywords: A weeks's worth of pay for 2 days of do-it-yourself work

In article <barrett.718772824@cc.gatech.edu> barrett@terminus.gatech.edu (James Barrett) writes:
>I'm in need of a 60,000 mile tune-up on my 1990 Mazda Protege.
>Anyone have any idea how much $ or time this should take?
>I also need to replace the timing belt.  How long should that
>take and cost?  I suppose I'm more interested in how much time
>I should be billed for, since the hourly rate will obviously
>vary by mechanic and I can check that easily.

Based on what I've read here (about repairing "new" cars in general,
and from friend), I predict you will pay $1200 +/- $200.  That's
including Vaseline.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: Why not a Taurus SHO Wagon??
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 19:20:14 GMT

In article <15035@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>In article <1992Oct16.021821.18261@leland.Stanford.EDU>, 
>tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>> no, not at all.  just slap on some mercury badges instead of ford.
>> or did you mean sable SHO wagons?  why would bob bondurant want station
>> wagons?
>
>No I didn't mean station wagons.  However it couldn't be very difficult
>from the standpoint of installing an engine in the station wagon.  The
>problems would be with the rear suspension of the wagon versus the
>rear suspension required to contain the SHO's output, and give reasonable
>handling at 140 MPH.
>
>Bob Bondurant wanted some Sable sedans for his courses.  
>
>There are differences between the Sable and the Taurus principally in
>materials and the fact that the Sable is better put together than 
>the Taurus.  
>
>Don't forget that the Sable is an upmarket car; the Taurus is an
>affordable middle class car.  Better appointments higher
>grade of plastic, more style, etc...
>
that's a matter of opinion - when I bought my Taurus wagon I was looking
for a Sable (figured I could put out a couple of the front lights to get
rid of the 'toothy' smile/grin the headlights have) but I drove both and
_far_ prederred the handling, interior, and other appointments....

-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin