From: ebrahim@ee.umanitoba.ca (Mohamad Ebrahimi)
Subject: The finall word with A. Jaber.
Organization: Elect & Comp Engineering, U of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 02:29:56 GMT


     During past few days, I participated in a rather long discussion
with A. Jaber in this forum. In this my last posting in this regard, for
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the time being, I'll clariffy why I did so and what did I prove, at
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
least for myself. But before that, I think it's whorthwile to have a look
at Jaber's own sentences, deriven from his recent articles in 
talk.politics.mideastt. The points that, to me, have been important are
underlined. Here they are:

######################################################################

Article: 41403 of talk.politics.mideast
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Subject: Re: Anwar Mohammad and Fuad Ajami
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:28:40 GMT

>From: karr@ukc.ac.uk (K.A.R.Razzooqi)
>           
>           I dont know Mr.Jaber why you have all this HATE for Kuwaiti people.
>           From all your letters I felt that you have something against us.
>           The only reason that I can find is for what happend to your hero
>           Saddam(the thug).
>
>            We did not INVADE an Arab country.
>            We did not KILL,RAPE an Arab.
>            We did not FILL people minds with old dead ideas (BA'ATHISM,etc).
>            We did not support the fighting parties in LEBANON.
>            We did not bring STUPID WARS on the arab world,Which costed a lot
>            of young peoples lifes and brought suffering to all of us.  
>            We did not give PALESTINE away.
>            (PALESTINE is still in our hearts)
>            So clean your heart Mr Jaber of all this hate.
>            And I think if all of us in the Arab world stoped the hate we
>            have we will be able to solve all our problems.
> 
>             I BELIEVE IT WILL HAPPEN ..ONE DAY..

	
	Mr Razzoqi salam:

	The Argument was Anwar Mohammad a Shia Kuwaiti by his own
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	confession admiring the Persian Fuad Ajami ( Read the the New
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Republic of May June July 1991 in which Fuad Ajami said himself
	that he is Persian). Ajami harbors with his own admission 
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Pro-Khomeinist ideas.
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	               I have no reason to hate or love Kuwait. The
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
	only country in the world that I am loyal to is this Country 
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	the UK.
	^^^^^^^

	As you said it my friend I have no vested interest in you as
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	a Kuwaiti or as a country you live your life and I am living my
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	life.
	^^^^^

A Jaber
########################################################################


Article: 41417 of talk.politics.mideast
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Anwar Mohammad and Ajami (Khomeinism)
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:50:58 GMT

>From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
>
>David, you haven't really been on this newsgroup very long so you 
>probably don't have any idea what the history behind my putting
>Jaber in my kill file.  Furthermore, you have completely *mischaracterized*
>the nature of Jaber's post.  It was three or four lines of assertions
>about Ajami, and about three or four *paragraphs* of unsubstantiated,
>nonsensical hyperbole about me.  

	Ajami has admitted his pro-Khomeinist views and what I am
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	questioning is if Anwar entertains those views that Ajami
	entertain about Khomeinism and Iran.


A Jaber
########################################################################


Article: 41476 of talk.politics.mideast
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Anwar Mohammad And Ajami
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:01:48 GMT

>From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
>
>Jaber refers to the New Republic of "May June July 1991" as support for
>his assertion that Fuad Ajami is both Persian and pro-Khomeini.
>
>There is no such thing. The New Republic comes out bi-weekly, not
>every three months.
>
>I assume Jaber simply is referring to either his vague memory or
>something someone else told him. Neither is reliable in a discussion
>of such a high temperature.


	New Republic Augaust 1991 (The Article is called the End of Arab
	Nationalism, A personal and Political odyssey by Fouad Ajami
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^
	starts on page 23 and ends on page 27.


	About the Khomeinist connection in his article those are his
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	words:" To my work on modern Arab politics I must have brought
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	the truth bequethed me by the small Shiat world I had been born
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	into. The Shiats were the step Children of the Arab world. In
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	its principal cities they were strangers, a people of the
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	country side. To its Sunni Orthodox they were Sectarians."
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


A Jaber
#######################################################################


Article: 41477 of talk.politics.mideast
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to Mr Razzooqi
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:17:46 GMT

>From: karr@ukc.ac.uk (K.A.R.Razzooqi)
>
>Again Mr Jaber I say WAKE UP.Read my lips I do like arabs very much.
>And do not play this dirty words game with me to undermine my identity.

	My friend Mr Razzooqi:

                                      I have served Kuwait and I will
	do so. I put my life at danger when I informed about Khomenist
	activities against Kuwait. The Khomeinist tried to run me over
	by a car in California. I did this not becasue Kuwait is giving
	                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	me a scholarship or any money but because of my Arab loyalty to
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	every part of our home land.
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  >Woow Mr Jaber listen to your self.What name for God sake,after all what
  >your friends Saddam,Assad,Qadaffi and others did you talk about name.
  >Now you want to till me that she is responsible for that name to be dragged.



	I have agreed with certain things Saddam has done and disagreed
	with othert things he has done as well. I am not going to listen
	what the other people tell me what Saddam is, I judge him. 
	Your government in Kuwait has agreed as well with Saddam and
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	gave him $50 ( or may be more)Billion in the last 11 years and
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	they done this by choice and I did not give him a penny.
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A Jaber
###########################################################################

      Several months ago, I discovered from an e-mail discussion with
A. Jaber that he has some problems with analyzing Islamic Revolution of
Iran in a logical manner. In recent discussions I tried to check the truth
of my beleive, and if so, to show it to the netters who occasionaly read
his remarks about Iran.

     As it can be found very well from many contradictions or ignorances
in his articles, I beleive that:

1- He is an Arab racist and anti-Shi'a, who can not analyze anything
   free of this prejudices. 

2- To him, the only person who has the ability of fighting with Israel is
   Saddam Hussein, and therefore all Arab countries should gather under the
   banner of Sadam. This imaginary fact undermines all crimes of Ba'ath party
   against Muslims of Iraq(especially Shi'as in south and Kurds in north),
   Iran, Kuwait, and the others who lost all their life and assets after
   Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

3- To him, whatever Saddam has done with help of west and saudis and Sabahs
   has been legitimate and out of his smartness and commitment toward the
   fight against Israelis. But the same or even far lesser simmilar actions
   by other governments has been betrayal and conspiracies of USA.

4- He is ready to create whatever stoty needs to prove his point, without
   showing a single shred of evidenc.

5- He feels an obligation to reduce the effect of Islamic revolution of
   Iran in Islamic world, and therefore in this way every lieing and
   accusation is legitimate.

    And the list goes on!!


    The final word with A. Jaber:

    Nearly half a century is gone since the occupation of Palestine by
Zionists. During these years many efforts toward the liberation of Quds
have been doomed to failure or even have resulted to bigger failures. There
might be lots of reasons for this fact. But to me, the most important reason
is wath we are watching from the idaes advocated for in your articles. As
long as we are trying hard to show the Palestinain problem as
an Arabic Nationalism problem, we all are doomed to fail. As long as we are
not willing to know the real face of alleged fighters for Quds, like
Ba'athis and other Arab nationalists, we are doomed to fail. And as long 
as we are ignoring the message of Islamic revolution for the unity between
Muslims, just because this revolution has happened in non-Arab Iran and
by Shi'a Muslims, and we are insisting on Nationalistic ways, we are
doomed to fail.

   I wish someday you devote enough time to think about the nature of Ba'athi regime
and wath they've done, and to know the real fighters for Quds and the real chalenges to
Islamic world, both Shi'a and Sunni. I'm sure in that case we'll never see
again your articles the way they are today.

With best wishes and Sallam

Your brother in Islam: Mohammad