HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Organization:  Organization??? 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:17:47 GMT

Yaakov writes:
>>                ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
>> 
>>"If it has tires or testicles, you're going to have trouble with it."
>>                            _Ohio state Senator Linda Furney
>
>I'd like to join the people protesting this .sig as highly insulting.
 
Personally, I find it moderately amusing.  I think this presents an 
instance of what I have said before about trying to make charitable 
assumptions.  As a man who has had the great good fortune to have 
loved and been loved by women, I understand this statement as an 
expression of wry and fond frustration.
 
>How would you feel if a .sig read: "If it has tires or tits, your
>going to have trouble with it."
 
That is, of course, not a fair comparison, because of the emotional 
baggage the good, solid Anglo-Saxon word "tit" carries around.  The 
equivalent would be "If it has tires or ovaries, you're going to have
trouble with it."  And of course, we generally consider cars to be 
well worth the trouble; the corrolary is that this statement implies 
that relationships with members of the opposite sex are, also, worth
the trouble.
 
(And before anyone posts about it, yes, I do believe that I recall 
the poster who uses this .sig having indicated that her own sexual 
preferences are homoerotic (I may be wrong here).  Regardless of 
that, no, I do not think that this invalidates my interpretation 
of her signature quote.)
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Organization:  Organization??? 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:17:56 GMT


Stephen posted:
 
>>I think instigating a flame war qualifies as a cheap shot.
 
To which I responded:
 
>And what, praytell, does pumping gasolene into a flame war constitute?
 
I would like to publicly apologize to Stephen, and to the Rialto,  
for this remark.  For reasons that I have detailed in private mail  
to Stephen, I was in a foul mood when I came upon this remark of   
his.  I saw the opportunity to take a cheap shot, and I took it.   
My anger was not even primarily oriented toward Stephen; he was  
just a convenient target.  And it's a hell of a thing when the guy  
who has been posting messages begging for calm and an end to 
hostilities turns around and post something like this.  
 
I sincerely hope that this thread can now be put to rest, that we 
can all learn some valuable lessons from it (both about cultural  
differences and about posting in anger), and that it will not end
up having permanently cost us any of our valued contributors.
 
Again, my aploogies. 
 
Humbly and Sincerely, your servant,
 
Alexander of Kiev
 
Carl Alexander
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:45:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
prayers for the blessings of Allah, most especially to Moreach.

Moreach recently posted:

>Pagans just need to do their homework, like the rest of us.

Truer words were never spoken for any of us.  The problem, however, is not
a failure to do homework.  I doubt that there are very many pagans in the
SCA who do not know that paganism was utterly marginal among the aristocracy
for virtually all of period (excepting in the farthest backwaters -- Sweden
prior to the thirteenth century and some of eastern Europe).  Expression
of pagan sympathies got an aristocrat dead.  What pagans in the SCA want is
a socially-acceptable environment for doing something which has absolutely
nothing to do with the middle ages, particularly for aristocrats (which
is what being "gently born" meant for most of period).  I don't think that
that desire is particularly a bad thing.  It's rather that I don't think
that SCA events are the place to do it.  I have no problem with it in
non-event settings, but that's not the issue.  The problem is compounded
by the fact that modern paganism is a nineteenth century invention, not
a medieval practice -- modern paganism has as much to do with medieval
paganism as Mormonism has to do with medieval Christianity.  I think it's
fair to suggest that most people would be aghast at a Mormon persona at
events and I find it odd that people are so willing to accept neo-pagan
personae.  The problem is compounded by the fact that our persona population
has nothing like the demographic distribution of medieval Europe (there are
several thousand percent more Norsemen per hundred SCAdians than there were
Norsemen per hundred medieval Europeans).  Sadly, the problem isn't a
failure to do homework, but a desire to intrude the modern world into our
recreation of a medieval one.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: various
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:45:36 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Yves Fortanier de Cavaillon (Rick Wallace):

>I understand your view of smileys, but I see their purpose - to give a 
>cue when the author is not only being humorous, but smiling(!) as well. 
>Facial expressions, tone, gestures are all lost via e-mail, so some authors 
>put them in. 

None of these things were lost when we people went from letter-writing
to electronic communication becase they were never there to begin with.
Somehow, people managed to survive without them.  My problem is not so
much with smileys, per se, as with fools who will flame somebody for not
using them: "You said that everyone knows the Moon is made of green cheese,
and you didn't put in a smiley-face, so you must be serious.  Let me tell
you what an idiot you are.  As the astronauts discovered, ...." 

-- Nicholas van Leyden
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Subject: Where to dance
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:12:27 GMT


Unto all who read these words, greetings
from Yaakov

Several gentles have suggested, as a means
of cutting down on background noise, moving
the site of dancing to elsewhere.

I do not believe such a solution will work
in the long term (or even for a very short term).
Dancing is one of the things that makes the
barn such a popular hang-out.  As someone
(I think Justin) remarked, some of the people
socializing are dancers who decided to rest
and chat.  In addition, folks wander by to talk
to people they know (for example, I go to chat
with my lady even though I don't do much dancing
at Pennsic).  People also wonder by to see what's
going on.
If dancing moved, these problems would resurface.
True, the barn's central location makes it
more popular than it would be in the parking area,
but that cuts both ways.  Anyplace far enough
away to discourage socializers will discourage
serious dancers as well.

In Service,
Yaakov
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Carl J.M. Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:28:13 GMT
Organization: Organization???

Gentles--
 
We are all supposed to be Gentles here, right?
 
I have for some time been referring to this thread, in my mind, as 
"the tempest-in-a-teapot thread."  It now appears to be time to 
issue a hurricane warning.  I'd like to suggest that we all, each 
and every one of us, drop it, right now, *before* it turns into 
the no-holds-barred flamefest it's shaping up to become.
 
There are times in life when the wise course, for intelligent
persons who are in disagreement, is to agree to disagree.  I
suggest that this is one of those times.
 
I should also like to suggest, in the hope that we may avoid this 
sort of situation in the future, that it is almost inevitably 
both impolite and impolitic to correct another's manners, especially 
in public.
 
With gratitude in advance for whatever attention my humble 
thoughts may receive, 
  
I remain, 
 
Yours in service,
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Advice for Pennsic re: dampness
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:12:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712043902.F00006

AN>  From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
AN>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
AN>
AN>  In article <21JUL199223521600@pavo.concordia.ca>
AN>  g_leach@pavo.concordia.ca (LEACH, GRAHAM) writes:
AN>
AN>  >When I went camping recently I noticed the fact that the sleeping
AN>  bags and
AN>  >the pillows we used quickly became damp - by the second day we were
AN>  resigned
AN>
AN>  The general rule for Pennsic is that everything you own will get
AN>  damp.
AN>  Wear woolen socks.
AN>
AN>  Resign yourself to dampness.

Now I don't do Pennsic, but I do camp. There is a mundane solution. It would 
involve leaving the site, and some may be unwilling to visit Mundania, but I 
have done this (mostly auto racing in BC, which can be a deluge) and I think 
it is worth the sacrifice.

Take your bedding to a laundromat and stuff it in the dryers. Unless you've 
spilled something in it (or have bairns who have bed-wetting troubles) you 
can get away with just the drying. Folk can send one "delegate" and lots of 
coins. If you delegate this in shifts you should be able to get a fairly 
large subset of your household dry often enough that you will only suffer 
"clammy-ness" and not full damp. Sleeping in damp bedding in cold weather 
can lead to exposure, even at what seems like fairly high temperatures,. 
Water sucks the heat out of your body and transfers it into the ground 
below. If your pavilion is drafty, you could get in real trouble, as it will 
also tranfer to the moving air quite quickly.

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: polito@husc8.harvard.edu (Jessica Polito)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dance and Music
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:44:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Jul23.114411.14090
Distribution: rec
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Quoth Dani Zweig,
>And perhaps not even then.  The existence of a hundred period scores
>titled "pavane" doesn't imply the existence of a hundred different pavanes.
>Perhaps more to the point, it doesn't imply a willingness on the part
>of the dancers to include many pavanes in their active repertoire.
>Something similar can be said about "bransle".

A group of us were looking at the Burgundian dance manuals, and discovered
that there would often be three or four "different" dances -- that is,
different names and different music -- written up in the manual which had
the exact same steps.  This led us to hypothesize that at least for this dance
repetoire, where the steps are fairly simple and get combined in a very few
set patterns, the music was as integral a part of the dance as the steps
were, and changing the music meant the dance was *different*, even though
you could be doing the same steps, at the same tempo.  I do not know if the
same holds true for the pavans, but given how they also appear to have been
very simple dances ("show of your garb" dances, as some here have taken to
calling them), I could easily believe that different pavane music does not
necessarily imply different dance steps.

(For those interested, Justin du Couer, who publishes the Letter of Dance,
will be coming out with an issue on the Burgundian Basse Danza repetoire 
soon...)

--Fiammetta Adalieta


-- 
Humans...  God's attempt to pass the Turing test.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Subject: Rialto Party At Pennsic
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:07:29 GMT


Unto all who read these words, greetings from Yaakov!
I post this to remind everyone of my open invitation
to the Pennsic Rialto Party.  The Party shall commence
at 6:30 p.m. on Tuesday, August 11.  As I shall have
a large pot of my 'endless stew' going, feel free to
bring feast gear.
I am camped with the Carolingian section of the
Great Northern Army encampment.  Look for the
wavy 'Y' on blue (Azure, a pall wavy or).  I hear
that we are near the solar showers down near the highway.

I shall be hosting another round of my poetry
challenge, so all who wish to test their skills
at spontaneous poetry please come.  I'll be awarding
Ilaine her prize for having won the last round
(if she is there).

In Service,
Yaakov HaMizrachi
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: lords...
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:24:52 GMT

In article <ewright.711756831@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

>Aryk (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:

>>>This was how it was explained to me when I was a newbie.  "Milord" was a 
>>>common form of address, regardless of rank.  "Lord X" was a title, and only 
>>>valid for the entitled types.

>>Just a point.  "Milord" and "milady" are French forms of address for English
>>nobility, just as "count" is used in English to translate the French "comte".

>I believe the OED recognizes milord and m'lord as alternative forms
>of "my lord."  (Same for "my lady.")  However, anyone who claims that
>"my lord" (however you may choose to spell it) is a "common form of 
>address, regardless of rank" is correct if he is talking about Renn Faires 
>or the SCA and absolutely incorrect if he is talking about history.

>-- Nicholas van Leyden

I was attempting to refer to common Scadian practice.  Forgive me if I was 
not clear.
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Moderation (was pentagrams)
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:06:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712232284.F00001

Interesting idea, switching from a pentacle to a pentagon, especially when 
you consider that the center "compartment" of a pentacle *is* a pentagon.

(Hmmm.... ;-)

Moreach 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:39:10 GMT

In article <Bs2Cu3.JHo@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>Factor:  We try to create a more specific ambience in the Trayned Bandes
>encampment -- we're after 1592, 
>
>So what kind of standard do we pursue with respect to songs?
>
>Any song with words and music that come from five years to either side of
>1592 are fine.  
>
>What about something from 1500?  1400?  Something in mediaeval French?  

A question (in hopes of your educating me) . . .

Given what you're doing, i fully understand your saying 'nothing more
than five years *after* 1592', bu the 'five years *before*'
restriction puzzles me.  Surely, earlier works would be know (after,
500 years later *we've* got them) though they might no be popular.  I
grant that, even with existing documents, knowledge will have
'skipped' some periods--that is a *given* earlier song may be known
now, but lost then--but a blanket denial seems a bit strong for this
case.  After all, there are probably many other earlier songs that
they could have had in hand, but have been lost since.  The other
point here is the 'precision' of the early cutoff.  One would expect
songs from anything up to 50 or more years prior to your working date
to be remembered, liked, and sung by those still living who heard
them when they were new.  In a military camp, would not one expect to
here things of a variety of ages from current back to the earliest
memory of some folk there (you *could* restrict older songs to older
folk, but even that approach can be attacked--successfully, I think),
plus a smattering of older (traditional?) works.

So . . .  What *is* the actual reason for the '5 years before' cut
off?

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Insurance
Date: 22 Jul 1992 23:06:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <Brt5AG.JDs@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> icklinck@cayley.waterloo.edu (Ian "Rhys" Klinck) writes:
"We're planning on holding an event in the near future (the First Revolt in
"Ealdormere), and the site owner wants a bit of info on our insurance - the
"Insurance Company's name, and the amount of coverage... He doesn't require a
"certificate  of insurance, so if someone can give me the info, it'd be
"appreciated.

Get hold of your Kingdom Seneschal.  This person will have all the information
you need in a form you can use.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:53:57 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Bertram of Bearington (David Schroeder) writes:
 
>  What about "cheap shots" on the tourney or battle field?

Well, I've heard a lot of knights and dukes say that when they're
in a tournament, and know they'll have to fight a number of bouts,
they try to get each one over with as quickly as possible to save
their strength.  By your definition, that would make them all 
"cheap shots."

>Can organizations or collective bodies draw lines without being
>accused of "political correctness" or "cultural imperialism" 
>or worse?

In other words, can you censor people's ideas without being
accused of censorship?  Sure, just define conversions about
censorship as being "discourteous" and prohibit people from
talking about that also. ;-)

-- Nicholas van Leyden
From: U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: lords...
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:50:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Unto the good folk of the Rialto from Landon of Wulfkeep, greetings!

  On the subject of what, other than "milord/milady", to use as a
polite form of address, Erik Aarskog writes:

>        I've always found, "Greetings, friend!  I am Lord Eric Aarskog of
>Axed Root, from the kingdom of Calontir.  Would you do me the honor of makin
g
>your aquaintance?"  It has the effect of letting people know I wish to know
>their name and rank, but the "friend" at the beginning shows I'm not trying
>to be stuffy.  I've never had a poor response, including the times I have
>addressed rank newbies and a current Queen (minus headgear at the time).

   Well, it doesn't have quite the "elegance" I'd prefer (I get
enough mundanity in my mundane life... :-), but I can live with
this.  I'd rather keep "milord/milady" though.
   On the other hand, maybe I should quit fighting this thing so
hard.  If we start calling everybody "master/mistress" it would
provide lots of incentive to get back into heavy combat so I'd have
an excuse to dust off my black leather!   :-) :-) :-) :-)

Yours in service --

   Landon of Wulfkeep                 Landon Falls
   Isenfir, Atlantia                  Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Subject: Period solutions to dancemaster problem
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:59:56 GMT


Unto all who read these words, most especially
Master Justin --may his feet never lose their
vigor-- greetings from Yaakov.

Alas, the period solution that I have gleaned
from my readings on the Inns of Court be not
available to the dancemasters of PEnnsic.
In those times, the Inns leveled fines against
those who did not participate in the 'traditional
dances and revels'.  If each conversationalist
were made to chivy up even a modest sum in payment
for their impropriety, I suspect silence would soon
reign within the halls.

(see Wicapahl: Music at the Inns of Court)

:-)
Yaakov
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cops and weapons
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:20:40 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Unto all who read these words, greetings
from Yaakov.

The good Moreach Nicmaolin, who
knows many friendly constables, posts
that we should "show off our toys with
pride and explain them 'til their eyes glaze
over and they develop reasons to 'have to leave.'
Most police are really human beings inside
and most of them *love* weapons."

While I agree with Moreach that police are
often times as human as you or I, and we should
not let stereotypes mislead us, I feel I must warn
of the potential consequences. I do not
feel this violates professionbal ethics, since the
Supreme Court in Florida v. Bostick explicitly
assumes that the 'reasonable person' is fully
acquainted with search and siezure law.

Anything you voluntarily show/surrender
to a police officer is admissible evidence.

You do not have to comply with a request
made by a police officer unless they have
explicitly siezed/arrested you.  This requires
probable cause.  The exception to this is
a 'Terry stop' named for Terry v. Ohio.
Police can pat you down for surface weapons.

I am not saying one shoul/should not
cooperate with police, show weapons with
pride, etc.  In fact, I agree with Morteach that
this is probably the best approach, but
be aware that being friendly in such a way may
give them evidence if they decide to be nasty.

Yaakov
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re:Regarding cameras at SCA events
From: z_berryrw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Date: 21 Jul 92 02:21:44 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Jul20.130135.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, jvincent@eagle.wesleyan.edu (The Ulair) writes:
 Eirik writes:
> 
> Greetings, Graydon
> 
>    You write:
> 
>> z_berryrw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>> 
>> I regard this as a lot of sublimated death fear, which I may be bound
>> to respect as real in the persons who suffer from it, but for which
>> I have very little empathy.
>> 
> 
>   Perhaps, but there is also a simple fact that some people have highly
> matter of personal outlook.
> 
>            -Eirik
> 
>     
The quoted material in Eirik's quote of Graydon's quote is mistakenly
attributed to me.  I did not write this particular item that Graydon seems
to be quoting.  Please review the articles for the correct original author.
(I have so much trouble with _my_ editor, I'm surprised that _I_ havn't done
this yet...)

Just wanted to set the record straight....

Wolfrick Thorinsson, Shire of Greywood, Ansteorra,
z_berryrw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa