From: jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle)
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:38:35 GMT

In article <1apcubINNhl7@bigboote.WPI.EDU> jseaver@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Jason John Seaver) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.183314.1679@nwnexus.WA.COM> jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle) writes:
>>In article <1ad9meINNbkq@bigboote.WPI.EDU> jseaver@arkose.WPI.EDU (Jason John Seaver) writes:
>>>
>>>	Very, VERY few people would complain about abortion when the mother's
>>>life is in danger.  However, if the woman is pregnent through voluntary sex...
>>>Well, you could say she's committed herself.
>
>>In other words, she made her bed now she should be forced to lie in it.
>>Sounds like punishing her for wanting sex, doesn't it?  Doesn't sound
>>like any higher beliefs like the fetus is a person, but control and punishment,
>>pure and simple.  She had sex voluntarily, and therefore must pay.
>>Has absolutely nothing to do with fetal rights at all.
>>
>>That's the picture you've painted, Jay.  Care to elaborate?
>
>	I don't know as I'd put it quite that way, but people should take
>responsibilities for their actions.  People know that pregnancy is a possible
>outcome of sex, and ideally will accept the consequences - mother and father
>both.  I personally don't have any real ability to say whether a fetus is a
>person or not - but I would be more and more sqeamish about an abortion the
>farther into a pregnancy it was considered; of course I am male and don't have
>to worry about it as much, do I?

Is your "people should take responsibilities for their actions" only related
to unexpected pregnancies, or to everything in life?  I only ask because
we, as a rule, DON'T take responsibility for our actions in general.  There
are plenty of instances where we blame someone else (sounds like what Bush
does), lie or shade the truth (could that be Clinton here?), or simply
avoid the subject entirely (Perot?).  We also have people or entities to
"fix" things for us when we screw up (insurance, for example).  We rarely,
personally, have to do much to correct a mistake or enexpected result of
our actions.

And, of course, you are implying that abortion can't be a responsible
reaction to an unexpected pregnancy.  I'm sure by now that you've heard
how I feel about the subject and I hope I don't have to open school again.

Yes, most people do know that pregnancy can result from sex.  But only under
certain circumstances.  Even Suzanne's much-touted NFP doesn't work to
achieve pregnancy always on the first try, even for fertile women.  I'd
venture a guess that every woman who uses any form of birth control expects
it to work, every time, regardless of the effectiveness rates.

"Accept the consequences" of sex...does that mean that my almost three-month-old
is a mere consequence?  I hope not.  "Accept the results" would be a better
phrase, don't you think, to an unexpected pregnancy?  And, by "accepting"
those results, or consequences (if you insist) that does not mean that
the woman should remain pregnant if it is in her best interests not to.
Only she can determine what her best interests are.

Ideally, you're correct.  If we lived in an ideal world, abortions wouldn
t happen--ever.  But, we don't.  People are human.  Humans make mistakes.
We ahve the ability to change our circumstances when it is in our best
interests to do so--actually, we have the _obligation_ to change our
circumstances when it is our best interests.  Abortion is certainly
an option for many women, and you and I are in no position to evern
suppose what is best for them.

>
>	The unborn child does deserve consideration, and an abortion should be
>avoided if at all possible, but it's ultimately the decision of the parent(s).
>The entire issue eventually comes down to personal responsibility, so what's
>wrong with pointing out that more early on would be a better solution to the
>problem?

I'd agree with your first statment except the last word.  The decision is
ultimately the _woman's_.  The man can have an input, but in the end, only
she is capable of making that decision.

I also agree that most women DO consider all options before deciding on
abortion.

And, I agree that early abortion is best for everyone involved.
However, just because a woman chose to have sex in the first place, that
should be no reason to access blame, force pregnancy and childbirth, or
do anything.  The manner in which the fetus was conceived means NOTHING,
absolutely nothing.

Jennifer
>
>					-Jay
>
>


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