HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:05:27 GMT

In article <2JAN93.15401497@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>
>No problem.  Everyone really posts to soc.motss.noncabal.  The pods act
>as moderator...

* there * is * no * moderator *

-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<EMCGUIRE.92Dec22051335@fuller.intellection.com>
	<id.8T1W.1M4@ferranti.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:00:18 GMT

In article <id.8T1W.1M4@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:

   What does traffic have to do with success? Traffic is almost
   entirely irrelevant. Better measures are things like readership,
   and percentage of crossposting (groups like news.answers excepted,
   of course).

I wouldn't say it is irrelevant.  See my other article for an
explanation.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>

Raise Usenet quality.  Read news.announce.newgroups and vote.
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:34:55 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <EMCGUIRE.92Dec21093506@mother.intellection.com> emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:

[in reference to hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Brian Hughes)]

>Like the old punchline, "What you mean `we,' white man?"  :)

Nice one, fool. If you really think a smiley covers a rude comment like
that you have a lot to learn.

And bye the bye, I share a house with Brian and I have been a guest of his
Nation and he is NOT white in any way shape or form. 

But he is a man, you got that much right.

-Geoff Bronner
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
_____________________________________________________________________________
Cerebus for Dictator in 1993!! | "Whether you are quiet and alive or quiet
    "Vote for me or else."     |  and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<EMCGUIRE.92Dec18153008@fuller.intellection.com> <28cry7p@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:05:05 GMT

In article <28cry7p@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

   A rationale like that is certainly a good thing to have, but it seems to
   me that any group proposal that doesn't have enough interest in it isn't
   going to have enough votes to pass anyway.  Reader interest is what the
   vote is designed to measure, after all.

Remember that I'm one of the folks who think that the vote isn't doing
a good job of this (because of the obsolete 100+ rule).  Seems to me
that group proposals are passing even though there isn't enough
interest to justify their existence.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Xref: sparky news.groups:24975 soc.motss:54281
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 21:51:54 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <BzF7os.Ap4@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>I like this idea even better.  A solution for situations in which
>people flagrantly violate the newsgroup's charter and their sysadmin 
>refuses to act despite repeated complaints (i.e., Clayton Cramer).
>
>>	soc.motss.misc	- "classic" soc.motss

Let's keep soc.motss as soc.motss, it's got so much history!  Many
people get net access because they've heard people talk about
soc.motss.  s.m.misc will result in tons of "Where's soc.motss?"
posts.  Also, comp.sys.amiga was replaced by comp.sys.amiga.misc 2-3
years ago and many sites STILL haven't deleted c.s.a.  There are 10-20
posts to it a weak.  Deleting soc.motss will be even more difficult.

>>	soc.motss.info (moderated) - news/reprints/etc.

I agree (I'll even moderate or co-moderate).

>>	soc.motss.d - who gets to moderate, content arbitration, etc.

I don't see a point to this newsgroup.  soc.motss will be fine for
that.  "who gets to moderate" is usually "who has the time to
moderate".  Moderation takes a *lot* of time and volunteers don't come
easily.

>>	One might argue for soc.motss.current as well.

Put three Usenet readers in a room and asked what "current" is and
you'll get four definitions.  What's current and what's not?  If a gay
bar is busted and the raid is discussed in soc.motss.current, will we
not be allowed to discuss past raids by the same police squad?  I don't
think this name is well thought-out.

>soc.motss.info -- would discussion take place here?  If it's just
>an archive would soc.motss.announce would be a better title?

Either is fine by me.  I just flipped a coin and "info" wins. :-)

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:32:49 GMT
Organization: Virginia Center for Lemur Fandom (subscribe to alt.fan.lemurs TODAY)

In article <BzH17z.3qp@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) wrote:
>> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
>>> brians@atlastele.com (Brian Sheets) writes:
>>>> I would like to propose a newsgroup for the patriot movement in the U.S.
>>>> This would include discussions on rights violations by legislation, gold 
>>>> and silver as payment for debts, freedom organizations and many other
>>>> basic US Constitutional topics.
>>> How about talk.politics.reactionary as an alternative?
>> misc.activism.{reactionary,conservative}?
>Well, we already have misc.activism.progressive, so the obvious name would
>be misc.activism.retrogressive, wouldn't it?
>
>Is there a specific party or other organization that actually calls itself
>the "patriot movement" that Brian might have had in mind?  Or does he mean
>a grab-bag of everything from Larouche to televangelists to Aryan Nations
>to the Libertarian Party?

Again, I think people should stop tarring the right wing with the brush of
"retrogressive" or "larouche".  I consider myself moderate to liberal but
find it surprising that people who apparently are my ideological peers
somehow don't feel that the people on the other side of center have a
right to their views.  Remember the old "I disagree with what you say, but
will defend to the death your right to say it" line?  It applies here.

Given that the Republican party and right-wing organizations such as the
NRA aren't suffering for membership, I think a USENET group called
talk.politics.usa.conservative would be read and used by a lot of people. 
Stop insulting the intelligence of the readers of news.groups by saying
that this group deserves only a name like talk.politics.reactionary or
misc.activism.retrogressive.
From: srogers@tad.eds.com (Steve Rogers)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.security.email
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:42:21 GMT
Organization: EDS Technology Architecture, Dallas

In article <1992Dec18.152330.3366@mongrel.UUCP> amdunn@mongrel.UUCP (Andrew M. Dunn) writes:
>This is going to be one of those toughies where there are two good
>spots in the hierarchy, both making sense.
>
>     comp.security.email
>and
>     comp.mail.security
>
>
>Is it a discussion of security as it relates to email, or mail
>security?    Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
>
>I'd almost think, since the topic is quite tightly bound to mail
>that it might be better to put it in the mail tree.

I think it is high time a group was created to talk about mail and security
and I agree with Andy that it belongs in the comp.mail tree as comp.mail.secure.

I like this title because it is both broad enough to deal with PEM and other
security mechanisms and it is short and too the point.  I can envision many
of the articles in the group being cross posted to comp.security.* but that's
what they built the capability for ;>) n'est pas?

Steve

-- 
Steve Rogers		srogers@tad.eds.com
EDS
Dallas, Texas		M Go Blue
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:05:06 GMT
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company


Whew..  Maybe it has something to do with the type of people that like
books.  Even _this_ discussion has been getting rather lenthy, and has
splintered off in several directions.

The rec.arts.books.chat idea seems to be falling into disfavor, so how
about kindof the opposite alternative - something like rec.arts.books.info
(or something similar).  This could be a lower-volume group explicitly
_not_ for extended discussions.  Maybe 'info' isn't the right choice of
name, but it could include requests for information, book release/availability
info, reviews, etc.  Maybe it should be moderated, as the way to keep
discussions from getting out of hand (not censored - they would merely
be redirected to r.a.b...)

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
Xref: sparky news.groups:25003 news.lists:547 news.admin:8780
From: kozlowsk@acs.ucalgary.ca (Don M. Kozlowski)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.america
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 17:13:54 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1906@frackit.UUCP> dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) writes:
> In article <WARKENT.92Dec14103204@ltisun14.epfl.ch>, warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) writes:
> > Concerning "native", "indigenous", and "aboriginal".
> > 
> > My Concise Oxford has the following definitions. My comments enclosed
> > in square brackets.
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> > "aboriginal" (adj.)
> >   1. Indigenous, existing in a land at the dawn of history, or before
> >      arrival of colonists. [the best option, in my opinion -kw]
>
> 
>Agreed. Even my little pocket New Websters defines aborigine as "early
>native of a country"
> 
>soc.culture.aborigonal.* anyone?
>
[stuff deleted]

I would vote against the group soc.culture.aborigonal.* on the
basis that it's misspelled. In fact I would prefer that
soc.culture.aboriginal not be used either because it would be
likely to be misspelled. Even people quoting from articles with
the correct spelling (see above) have trouble with it.

-- 
Don Kozlowski	                 	Phone: (403) 220-5156
Academic Computing Services		Fax:   (403) 282-9199
The University of Calgary
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:26:30 GMT

In article <BzqrD5.8JC@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr) writes:
> Which is why I recommend putting the word "usa" in the name.  That way,
> any Australians who have an idea that conservative means "green" or
> "nature" politics will look at it and say "'talk.politics.usa.con- 
> servative'.  Well, that's a group that's about American politics.  Let's go
> back to aus.conserve and hang out."

You still don't get it. The conservation movement in the US was *started*
by people who referred to themselves as conservatives. And they meant
something pretty close to what *some* of the people in the U.S. today
who refer to themselves as conservatives mean. The conservative and the
liberal "movements" are no such thing: they're loose alliances of convenience
between groups with often radically differing views.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
From: chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
Date: 25 Dec 1992 07:12:36 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec23.200629.18103@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>In <1ha2eaINNdbi@agate.berkeley.edu> chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:
>
>>Since we already have rec.arts.movies, and nobody seems to be using
>>r.a.cinema, why not remove it?
>
>It is a very quiet (ok... dead) group but when it is active it covers a
>lot of discussion that rec.arts.movies generally avoids.
>
>-Geoff
>--
So r.a.cinema is supposed to be the NC-17 version of r.a.movies? =)
Seriously, I think it would only serve to confuse new readers. As of now,
there are * NO * posts in r.a.cinema, and for purposes of tidiness, I think
it should be removed. Is there such a thing as a call-for-removal? How does
one rmgroup a newsgroup officially?

Chua
+==+
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:07:09 GMT
Organization: Virginia Center for Lemur Fandom (subscribe to alt.fan.lemurs TODAY)

In article <1992Dec22.151303.3578@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
>I have no objection to the formation of such a group but I feel that
>as Usenet is an international forum we need a talk.politics.usa
>hierarchy to stick this group into. We now have too many USA specific
>groups under the talk.politics hierarchy.

Right.  Nor should the group have "patriot" in its name, as there are
many, many citizens of the USA who consider themselves patriots who don't
subscribe to the philosophies and group agendas outlined in the original
CFD for this concept.  The group should have .usa. in there to make it
obvious that we're not talking about Norway, St. Vincent and the
Grenadines, or San Marino, for example, and should be "conservative" since
that's essentially the most descriptive, unambiguous word for what the
poster of the CFD has in mind for this group.
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW VOTE ON NAME FOR NATIVE AMERICANS NEWSGROUP
Date: 27 Dec 92 14:54:57 GMT
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.


 In article <BzLqDD.EzG@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz>, chisnall@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (The Technicolour Throw-up) writes:
 > From article <yenamand.724366179@micro>, by yenamand@micro.cs.umn.edu (Murthy Yenamandra):
 > > 
 > > To me, "aboriginal" always seemed to be tinged with contempt.
 > 
 > How about soc.culture.autochthon?   Autochthon is precisely the word that
 > people are looking for here.  Its unambiguous (unlike "native") and free of
 > derogatory connotations (unlike "aboriginal").  The only thing against it is
 > that it probably too obscure to most people.

Now THAT'S an understatement. The last time I heard that term was over
20 years ago. I think it's a bit TOO obscure for consideration. Great
for Scrabble and Lovecraft groupies though :)

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Trent University, Ontario
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:17:24 GMT

In article <id.5T1W.HD4@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>Personally, I only vote "NO" against a group if I believe that the name
>does not match the charter, or if I believe that there was substantial
>fraud in the process. I only vote "YES" if I am interested in the topic
>and expect to read the group, at least part of the time. I am not
>convinced that there are *ANY* other legitimate reasons for voting.
>I certainly haven't seen a good argument for any.

I also vote Yes if the group will draw traffic I don't care for
away from a group I read -- even though I won't read the new group,
its creation will make my newsreading easier. I have (rarely) voted
No when I felt a new group would draw traffic I *do* care for away
from a group I read and so diminish the "character" of the group --
a concept that may be unclear to readers of strictly technical groups.

Kate
Xref: sparky news.groups:24758 alt.config:8078
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config,nyx.misc
Subject: SON OF KILLFILES (Was: Re: rec.arts.fantasy)
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:42:28 GMT
Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA

In article <85623@ut-emx.uucp> andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard) writes:
>skwatkin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Watkins) writes:
>> I really see the need for an alt.fantasy news group.  I read the sf news 
>>groups and the specific fantasy author groups.  I like sf, but I *love*
>>fantasy.  I would like to be able to talk about many different authors
>>with others who share my interest in fantasy.  I would rather not force 
>>sf fans to read fantasy posts as I am forced to read theirs now. 
>>  I do like sf, but I see a need for another group.
> 
>No one is *forcing* you to read anything.  Even on those news readers
>that don't support kill files (and I doubt Nyx uses them), you can always
>just skip messages you don't want to read. 

Nyx supports killfiles.  It also has trn available for registered users. 
Hence all you have to do when faced by a slew of topics you don't want to
read is avoid selecting threads on topics you don't want to read from the
thread selection screen.  For example: I'm reading alt.folklore.urban, and
I come across that damn mnemonics thread that crawls up out of the sewers
of hell now and then.  If I don't want to read it, I can simply avoid
selecting it off the menu.  If I'm really really desperate to avoid ever
seeing the word "mnemonic" on my screen, I can mash cntrl-K when reading
an article in the Mnemonics thread.  Presto: no more mnemonics articles. 
The thread'll be in my a.f.u. killfile and I won't have to bother with it.
Xref: sparky news.groups:25007 alt.messianic:3802
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Date: 1 Jan 93 23:42:10 GMT
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC

In article <1993Jan1.081442.20987@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
> No, I'm sorry, but I did NOT misquote Peter da Silva.  He posted a lengthy
> paragraph deriding the very concept of "conservative" being used to mean
> "on the right of the political spectrum."

No, I posted a lengthy article deriding the very concept of conservative
as a useful tag. You may freely replace "conservative" with "to the right
of the political spectrum" without changing the meaning of either the word
nor my message. It's just as meaningless.

I also said not one word about whether it's a good or bad idea to help
people mutilate the language. I've already connived in the creation of
a similar group for similar reasons, despite my opposition to idiotic
labels of that type.

> I dropped the subject, more or less, after his post since I really didn't
> care a whole lot about whether this group comes about but DID care to see
> that people didn't rudely attempt to stick this group idea with a name
> like "talk.politics.retrogressive" or "talk.politics.reactionary", two
> names that were proposed.

Not by me. In fact, I opposed those names, saying that if people want their
group to have a label that makes them feel more comfortable, by all means
let them.

> If you feel, as I do, that "conservative" has a
> very clear and obvious meaning in political terms, by all means support
> the concept of talk.politics.conservative.

If yuou feel that I do, that "conservative" is an overbroad term for a
wide variety of groups with often opposing views, by all means support
the concept of talk.politics.conservative. That's what talk groups are
for, after all.

As for Joel Furr...

I'm still undecided as to whether your problem is reading comprehension
or political fervor, but I decline to take responsibility for it.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Xref: sparky news.groups:24940 alt.folklore.computers:18389 alt.flame:17489
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.folklore.computers,alt.flame
Subject: Re: Mark Brader Posts!  (Was: Re: Amusing Signs)
Summary: <sigh> silly wabbit, it's over. Put a sock in it.
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:52:09 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.

In article <BzG610.D1L@polaris.async.vt.edu>, jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
> hu.edu> <CKD.92Dec16161744@loiosh.eff.org>
> Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA
> I found that post in alt.folklore.urban and said "My, I thought Brader started
> the whole 'hijack a.f.c.' thing because he couldn't get alt. groups at all,
> yet here he is.'  I then crossposted it to a.f.c, news.groups, and alt.config
> and neglected to point this out.  I guess I jumped to the conclusion that
> people would follow my train of thought.  Anyway, Brader apparently has little
> trouble posting to alt., so any sympathy I had for him (not much) has now gone
> to nil.

First, learn about how cross-posting really works and the many and
varied news posting mechanisms out there before you start trying to
justify your continued animosity. I won't bother to try and help you
learn since you'll probably not believe anything you're told anyway. 

Second, Joel, you're starting to sound like Dave Hayes Jr. And your
continued use of loaded phrases like 'hijack a.f.c.' just keep fanning
the flames you started. Kinda self-serving and silly. 

You 'won' your imaginary war, now just be a nice person and shut up, please?

Followups-To: alt.flame where your type of posting is more apropos.

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic