HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Y'hi Ratson at the Table
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:05:03 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

Is beer an acceptable substitute for a sheep's head?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:51:36 GMT

>Several weeks ago, the Torah Parsha discussed the admonition 
>against cross-dressing.  Specifically, the Parsha stated that men 
>should not wear women's apparel and vice versa.  What then is the 
>situation with respect to women wearing kippot and tallaisim in 
>shul?  The yarmulke is clearly a man's article of clothing with lace 
>head coverings being the feminine equivalent.  Thus, it seems that 
>women should not wear yarmulkes, rather that they should wear a 
>lace head covering or other feminine head covering so that they 
>would be in compliance with this commandment.  Since there is no 
>feminine equivalent to a tallis, the solution is not as apparent.  Is
>the tallis a male garment?  Do tallis color and patterns 
>differentiate the genders?  Can a woman wear her own tallis, but 
>not borrow a man's?  Basis on this commandment, should women 
>defer from wearing tallaisim or are tallaisim not considered 
>garments?
>
>Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
>The MITRE Corporation	voice:  (703) 883-7586
>7525 Colshire Drive	FAX:	(703) 883-1397
>McLean, VA   22102
I could not decide whether or not you were serious, so I decided to answer.
First, I would not think to call a yarmalka a male garment.  Reasons for
men to keep their head covered has nothing do with "wearing a garment". 
Also, reasons for MARRIED women keeping a hair covering on, is also not in
the garment area.
Being a sabbath observing orth. person, I do not see women wearing either
yarmalkas or tallaisim.  Married males wear a tallis.  Although you would
often see young, unmarried males wearing a tallis, it is considered to be a
sign of a married man.  Color has nothing to do with the idea.  I would
therefore find it ludicrous for women to "wear" either yarmalkas or
tallaisim.  Could it be that those who do - consider themselves males. 
Next, they should put on teffilim in the morning.  (Do women "rabbis" put
on teffilim?).
I don't expect this to open a can of worms, but it probably will.
+--------------------------------------------------------+
   

   *    ***    ***   *   **
   *   *   *     *   **  *
   *   *   *     *   * * *   nison reuven b'R Shami
   *   *   *         *  **
   *    ***         **   *
   *  
   *   *  *   ***   ***   **  **
   *   ** *  *   *  * **  * ** *
   *   * **  *   *  ***   *    *
   *   *  *   ***   *  *  *    *

+---------------------------------------------------------+
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:20:40
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<RLK.92Oct2173353@underprize.think.com>
	<1992Oct3.145230.19733@yang.earlham.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: uril@yang.earlham.edu's message of 3 Oct 92 19:52:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.145230.19733@yang.earlham.edu> uril@yang.earlham.edu (Uri J. Lessing) writes:

   In article <RLK.92Oct2173353@underprize.think.com>,
    rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

   It is very difficult for a child growing up, to see two (or more) distinct 
   religious ideas.  Of the friends I have who are products of mixed 
   marraiges, most ended up athiests or "culturaly Jewish" because they do 
   not have any solid ideas on Religion.  For some people, this may be 
   acceptable, for others catastrophic.

It doesn't take a mixed marriage to wind up an atheist; I did even with
two fairly traditional (basically Conservative) parents (and at that, my
sister, who's probably of roughly the same level of intelligence as me,
wound up Orthodox, and the same thing happened in my father's sister's
family).  On the other side, someone I know who married someone
non-Jewish raised his child Jewish, and his wife recently converted.

Conceivably, a child of parents of different religions might actually
take religion more seriously, as there might be more active discussion
while growing up.  Personally, I hope that if I have children they think
for themselves and tell me that I'm full of it (in so many words, no
less!) if they think that I'm wrong.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Subject: Re: literature like chaim potok
Reply-To: ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff)
Organization: Technion IIT, Haifa Israel
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:23:16 GMT


In article <BvM49B.M9B@sun3.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca>, ward@sun17.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Ward) writes:
|>In article <2643@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
|>>Did anyone see Hillel Halkin's review of Potok's latest book?  It was
|>>in the Jerusalem Report.  Not long ago.  It talked about his writing
|>>style.  How it was appropriate for Hemmingway.  But Jews don't talk
|>>that way.  Hemmingway's men of action used short sentences.  Since
|>>Shammai no Jew has.
|>

Took me a few minutes to think, but I suggest:
Halter, Marek - The Book of Abraham
                The Children of Abraham

--
________________________________________________________________________
|            Ben Pashkoff                 BEN@VMSA.TECHNION.AC.IL      |
|                                                                      |
| "There is nothing better for the body than silence." Pirke Avot 1:17 |
|______________________________________________________________________|
From: simon1@miller.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Info on Jewish Amherst,MA and Lincoln,NH
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:34:04 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@miller.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

If there is someone, who live now in one on this cities,
please e-mail me to simon1@bass.bu.edu.
I'm going to spend part of Succot in these places,
and would like to get info about them.

THank & gmar hatima tova lekulam.


Simon Streltsov			    	! Disclaimer :
PhD Student,				! I can not speak for the
Dept. of Manufacturing Engineering	! Engineering Dept, ONLY because
Boston University			! I claim to be a mathematician..

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:02:30 GMT

In <4260@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

>In article <1992Oct2.070524.4767@javelin.sim.es.com>
>JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) writes:


>>  How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

> How does John Kennedy   fail to be the messiah?
> How does Marlyn Monrow  fail to be the messiah?
> How does Julius Ceasar  fail to be the messiah?
> How does Heydy (Swis.)  fail to be the messiah?
> How does Marco Polo     fail to be the messiah?
> How does Johny Walker   fail to be the messiah?
> How does Napoleon Bonaparte fail to be the messiah?
> How does Magic Johnson  fail to be the messiah?

> How does Ching Ming of the farm Ding at China  fail to be the messiah?

> I never hearred about that Ching Ming , but the possibility someone
>like that ever existed is very high, So who do we  know the fact that
>that person is  not the mesaya?

You are using analogy, but analogies only go so far.  The point that
Jesus is to be compared to any other famous/unknown person is valid only so far.
The followers of all of the above people (if they even had followers)
never claimed them to be the Messiah.  Very few of them were even Jewish.
So unfortunately, you analogy breaks down.

The critical question that has only been answered in part, and is
implied by the original question:

What qualities is the Messiah supposed to have?
Who defines (defined) these qualities?
Are these qualities uniform in all of Jewish tradition?
Have these qualities been uniform in all of Jewish History,
or have they changed because of the claim of Christians.
(i.e. 1. This is what the Messiah is supposed to be.
      2. OK here is a person with those qualifications.
      3. No, no, he can't be the person, therefore the qualifications
         are different.
)


--
Eli Chiprout
Dept. of Electronics
Carleton University	
emc@doe.carleton.ca	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 03:14:56 GMT

goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:

>I have received the following text as private mail. I have erased any
>identification of the sender. The electronic mail address points at a
>respected UNIVERSITY.
[...stuff deleted...]
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>In article <goldberg.715809502@techunix.technion.ac.il>, you write:
>|> matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
[...lots of stuff deleted...]

Since my name appears here, I would like to state that I was NOT the
author of the private letter quoted. Perhaps J.Goldberg should have
stated that himself... or maybe refrain from discussing in public any
private e-mail altogether.

MB
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:38:41
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Oct2.174420.28589@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> <emc.718055615@tomalak>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: emc@doe.carleton.ca's message of 2 Oct 92 19:53:35 GMT

In article <emc.718055615@tomalak> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:

   stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
   >JOHN HIATT writes:
   >>  How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?

   >The simple answer is that your question is totally irrelevant for
   >this (s.c.j.) newsgroup.

   >If you want to believe that the self-styled preacher Joshua, or
   >Shabbatei whatever, or Mohammed, or any of the hundreds or thousands
   >of other people who have lived or are living on this planet who have
   >claimed they were the Messiah, is in fact so, go ahead, but what does
   >it have to do with Judaism?

   This is a bit simplistic don't you think? Jewish culture has often been
   formed as a result of contact with other surrounding cultures.  It is
   simply a question of what is kept in and what is kept out, as a community
   consensus.  The question above simply asks why is the Jesus tradition
   kept out.  It has everything to do with soc.culture.jewish

Except for the fact that John Hiatt has posted similar things before,
and not in a way that strikes me (or a lot of other people) that he's
looking for information.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 07:59:14 GMT
Keywords: what it overides, what overides it

gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>......  In any event, is there anything at all, that
>would still be observed even if it coincides with Yom Kippur? 
  What about leaving synagogue/kibbuz/home in the middle of Mussaf, rush with
  one's car to some preset location, and board a tank or a plane towards
  the G. heights or the S. canal? A good opportunity for an instant of thought
  for families who were left with just a piece of stone 19 years ago.
>Also, are
>weddings permitted on Yom Kippur?
  Not YET. But VERY SOON, looking for a mate in the ever green gardens of
Yerushalayim will be approved (after the completion of Mussaf of course).
>--
>BERNSTEIN,AVRON P
  Yaaqov Goldberg


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:43:49 GMT

Randall Holmes writes:
>Stan Krieger writes:

>>A Jew marrying outside the religion is showing nothing but contempt for
>>the religion, for his or her coreligionists, and for our Law and tradition.
>>It's unfortunate that there are people within our religion for whom the
>>religion, and its history and tradition, mean so little.
>
>Read the Book of Ruth, anyone?

Sure,  Ruth converted to the Hebrew religion.

>It is not an obligation to the _parents_ to marry within the religion.
>In fact, I believe that the choice of a spouse is one of the few
>points upon which tradition allows one to defy one's parents (in
>theory).  Thus "respect for the parents" cannot be the primary
>consideration.

I believe the only time that a child can violate the 5th commandment
is if the parents expect the child to violate the Sabbath.  so
respect for parents most certainly is a primary consideration.

>These are valid considerations, but they cannot apply to this case.
>If the only justification for not intermarrying is that it "hurts
>other people" then one's own rights _do_ take precedence.
>
>If there is an obligation here which overrides one's own wishes, it is
>to God.  If the Jewish faith and traditions are an enterprise founded
>on obligations among people, then it must be permissible to opt out of
>it, in whole or in part.

The obligation to God is clear; Jews do NOT marry non-Jews, period.
If that isn't enough, then a person shouldn't be so selfish as to
ignore the devastating effect such a marriage will have on her
parents.  In the extreme case, the parents can declare the child dead
and go through the appropriate mourning rituals; is any child so
wicked as to put his or parents through that?
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Handicappers on El Al
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:46:47 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


I have a friend who is confined to a wheelchair.  I am trying to convince
him to come to Israel with me in either December or during the summer.

There are two problems (as he explains it):

Boarding El Al in New York is not Handicapper accessable (you have to go
down that fight of stairs) and getting off in Israel is by going down a 
staircase onto the tarmac.

AND

Once being helped out of his wheelchair (into his seat on the plane) he
is unable to get around.  He claims that even with his experienced
bladder he cannot sit for 11-14 hours without going to the bathroom.
He is a big guy (around 5'10" 180lbs) and could be carried to the 
bathroom if necessary, but he would rather find a better solution.


If anyone has any ideas (or alternate airlines to Israel), please 
reply.

 
Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews and the Black death (was Re: What is chalitza?)
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:29:49 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lbs@tkmhp4.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Offensive message
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:51:51 GMT

In article <kew3RB3w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:
>
>> I have received the following text as private mail. I have erased any
>> identification of the sender. The electronic mail address points at a
>> respected UNIVERSITY.
>> 
>******Stuff Deleted******
>> 
>> Look, Jack, you can go about writing bullshit like this and you probably 
>> will. Tell me one thing, if jews in poland at any time at all were 
>> persecuted in poland, why didn't they rebel...?
>> Sort of like the Palestinians and their uprising... show me pictures of
>> polish citizens indiscriminatly shooting at crowds of jewish protesters.
>> like we so often see on TV nowadays Jews doing it.
>> Piss off, because seeing todays behavior of the jewish people everyone
>> inclined to doubt their innocence in 19/20 th century Europe.
>
>******My Comments******
>
>Lost cause, Jacques.  This guy is never going to use any native 
>intelligence to critically examine anything you might send him.  I'm glad 
>you posted this, because I have become complacent to a point and 
>periodically need reminding that people like this exist.  I do wish you 
>hadn't protected his identity, though, because he should be required to 
>defend his views rigorously.  It wouldn't change his mind, but in the 

 If you reveal that person's identity you would have to prove
that the message was real. According to rules of law 
a person is presumed innocent unless proven guilty.
 I condemn that offensive message just as strongly as you do.
I just don't know what you could do if that person says "it is not
true, I didn't do it." 

>presence of some actual intelligence, he might begin to realize he's out 
>of his league with arguments like the above.
>
>Todd

 Lech 
lbs@neptune.phys.ufl.edu
From: rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tay-Sachs
Date: 27 Sep 1992 05:07:16 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.berkeley.edu

In article <69123@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU
(BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:
>I read somewhere that there are two distinct groups that are affected
>by Tay-Sachs.  Jews of Ashkenazi descent and French Canadians (usually in
>Quebec) are the groups.

	Perhaps you are thinking of Lousiana Cajuns, who have had instances
of the disease.  I believe there was an article on this in the New York Times
a few years ago.  Apparently the victims' ancestry can be traced to one
particular Jewish carrier who lived in Louisiana long ago, so it is in fact
the same disease.

						Dan
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Date: 5 Oct 1992 12:02:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   Practically NONE of the characteristics of the Messiah as they
are stated in the bible can be found in Jesus.  The conditions of
the Messianic Age have not come to pass.  Furthermore, all of the
supernatural mumbo-jumbo associated with Jesus has nothing at all
to do with the Messiah.  Also, this man-god fixation that all you
Christians have is offensive to Jews, who believe that any effort
to reduce G-d to something as trivial as what we human beings can
see is demeaning to our concept of G-d.  The whole idea of Christ
as a 'god' is idol worship to Jews and, as such, most offensive.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hebrew question
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:16:09 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Sep25.134758.14591@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>In article <1992Sep25.125149.13480@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@ruby.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>>If the head of the year is Rosh HaShana...
>>and the tourist spot near Haifa in Rosh HaNikra...
>>Why is the head of the month Rosh Chodesh (instead of Rosh HaChodesh)?
>  I'm not afraid to look like an idiot, so I'll take a stab at it.
>
>  Because the complete phrase is "rosh chodesh elul." Similarly,
>  one would say "rosh shanat tashnag."


Explanation:

   ROSH HA----     means:    Head of the ---

So   Rosha hashana  = head of the year
     Rosh hanikra   = head of the cave   ( the pick of mountain above
the cave)


Rosh =head     or       head of ---

So rosh hodesh    may mean  head of a month ,

or , usually       head of ( the) month of----

Shalom
   gideon
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus ? *
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:03:16 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)

In article <emc.718311750@noonian>, emc@doe (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>You are using analogy, but analogies only go so far.  The point that
>Jesus is to be compared to any other famous/unknown person is valid
>only so far.  The followers of all of the above people (if they even
>had followers) never claimed them to be the Messiah.  Very few of
>them were even Jewish.  So unfortunately, you analogy breaks down.

Not really.  On the essential point, the analogy is perfect: us Jews
can't see any difference between J***s and just about anyone else when
it comes to who is the Messiah.  *So what* if he had any followers who
made, and continue to make, lots of noise?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: qaraa@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: alzheimers disease
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:49:29 GMT

In article <9209241415.AA02084@helix.nih.gov>, norm@helix.nih.gov writes:
>>i am interested in peoples insights into the following situation:
>>i have 2 friends who i will call ralph and alice.  ralph has
>>been married to alice for about 40 years.  ralph has alzheimers
>>disease (AD) is in a nursing home and at this time has no idea
>>who alice is, and is in the advanced stages of the disease.
>>he is cannot feed himself, cannot communicate, etc.
>>through a support group, alice has met norton whose wife trixie,
>>has had alzheimers disease (AD) for even longer than then ralph
>>and is also in the advanced stages of the disease.
>>
>>all four of them are jewish.  alice and norton have started seeing
>>each other and are now sleeping together.
>>
>>my question is this.  what does jewish law say about this situation.
>>are alice and norton commiting adultry?  i am interested in peoples
>>opinions about this, as well as jewish legal opinions.
> You must be kidding.  Is this adultry?  Not only that (and not only Jewish
> law would say that), but is a "chilul H')

ACCORDING TOI JEWISH LAW IT IS ALLOWED TO HAVE ANOTHER WOMAN IF YOURS CAN'T
HAVE CHILDREN, BUT THAT WOMAN SHOULDN'T BE ANOTHER'S WIFE.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish