HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.kids


Judy, or anyone else but Judy has been the strongest proponent:

If you decide to start a "eat what and when you want" program with a
5 yo in Kindergartten, when you have been regulating her diet in the
past, what about the following issues:

 - about soda -- I would be willing to let her drink soda when she wanted
   if she did not wast 4/5 of the can.  She only want to drink 2 or 3 oz
   at any one time.  The rest of the can then looses its fiz and is eventually
   thrown out.  How do you handle preventing waste (the throwing out of
   good food/drink that could have been easily used with better planning)?

 - This issue of waste is significant for me (another discussion) and I have
   tried to follow a general rule "eat what you take".  She get a fair amount
   of control over what she takes (the "eat what and when you want" program
   would have me change this to give her complete control over what she takes),
   but then has to eat that.  Sometimes her eyes are bigger than her stomach.
   She can always go back for more, except when we run out which is seldom,
   so there is little benefit to taking a lot all at once.  How can one merge
   a negative attitude toward waste with a lenient attitude for what IS eaten?
   Can "eat what you take" be compatible with "eat what and when you want"?

 - What happens when the child is at school (where there are fixed times
   when snacks/lunch are allowed)?  She does have all her day's food in her
   lunch pail and so can control what and how much she eats at one time, but
   the teachers control WHEN these times are.  In my case, she gets at least
   some say in what goes into the lunch pail.

 - What if your child spends a significant amount of time in someone else's
   house (divorced parent, in-home daycare, playing with friend) where this
   time is long enough to include significant eating times (all day or even
   multiple days at a stretch)?  These other adults may not go along with
   the program.  What affect does this have on the child's eating habits?

Thanks for any additional input on these issues.  I am very interested in to
topic.

Karla Perdue                 The opinions expressed are strictly my
Mountain View, CA            own and not those of Hewlett-Packard.

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 02:21:04 GMT

In article <TIGGER.92Nov6012224@satyr.Sylvan.COM> tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
>
>Convenience. Because it is still a quick solution to "if you don't
>obey me". Ok, so you put a level before that - first there is the
>simple, agreed upon, logical consequence. But if, for some reason, the
>child is unwilling to do the consequence, they get hit. You don't work
>with them any further.
>

What bothers me most about this whole discussion is the way people throw
accusations back and forth at those who disagree with them.  This is
a prime example.

Non-spanker: 	Parents who spank do so because it is more convenient
		to resort to spanking than to use alternate methods of
		discipline.

Spanker:	Parents who don't spank do so because it is more convenient
		to allow your children to run wild than to take the time
		necessary to spank them.

I contend that there is an enormous amount of disrespect on both sides of
this issue and, frankly, I think people in both camps should be ashamed of
themselves.  I think there is no excuse for accusing people who differ in
their opinions of being bad, lazy, or inadequate parents.  

I think you should all have a time-out and stop posting until you are 
ready to be civil!    

(I, of course, have behaved impeccably ;-)

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: tnzj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Putting Children First
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:13:03 EST
Distribution: misc
Organization: Cornell University

        My two girls are the most intensely beautiful things in the world. 
Nothing else in this life makes any sense to me, holds such grand purpose and
purity, gives me such purpose as do children.  I constantly endeavour to be 
worthy of them.  Yet society urges me to merely "manage" them. I should try 
to make the "right" decisions for them (where they go to school, what they 
can and can't do). I should love them and make sure to hug them every day.  
        Good software could make the right decisions for them. Our dog loves 
them.  I feel parenting is much more than these simpler things. A parent is a 
model, a guide.  I should parent by being the best I can be; shedding bad 
habits, developing my talents, keeping my word, dealing with my faults. I 
model well just in the struggle to do these things. I must be changing too if 
I am to offer them something throughout their lives. What a challenge to 
create a path, a path created just for that child, that continuously nudges 
who they are towards greater personal health and to place myself on that path 
with them, guiding them, growing with them.  
        All the world's problems arise form human weaknesses.  Real change in
this world will only come as each generation furthers what a human being is.
Real life after death only comes through the life, the effort, the feeling, 
the love, the thought we give to others, especially those who live on after 
us, our children.
                                        Sincerely,  Mark

        Life is not a "brief candle." It is a splendid torch that I want to
make burn as brightly as possible before handing on to future generations.

                               ...... George Bernard Shaw
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi)
Subject: Re: WAS 20/20 and Spanking - IS Child Rearing
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 18:19:41 GMT

(Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

>Yes.  I think spanking is better than nothing.  Effective discipline without
>spanking is better still.  But nothing is the pits.

Along these lines, there is an interesting set of studies done by
Diana Baumrind, noting different methods of child rearing and the resultant
child behavior.  She divided up the different methods into authoritarian,
authoritative, permissive.  Each was described in terms of four factors:

  1. Parental Control - measure of strict discipline (does NOT mean spanking)

  2. Clarity of Parent-Child communications - extent to which child's
        opinion is solicited on family decisions, extent to which parent 
	offers reasons for punitive or restrictive measures.

  3. Maturity demands - parental pressure or encouragement to perform well 
	in the intellectual, social, or social sphere.

  4. Nurturance - warmth and involvement in caretaking, extent to which
	parent expresses concern for child's well-being or pleasure in
	child's accomplishments.

The results:

     AUTHORITARIAN parents:
	high control, low communication, high maturity, low nurturance. 
     Their children :
	 withdrawn, showing relatively little vitality and eagerness in 
	 their daily activity. In addition, they were shy and generally
	 uneasy around peers.  Children showed a lack of instrumental
	 competence, self-reliance, vitality and self-control.

     AUTHORITATIVE parents:
	high control, high communication, high maturity, high nurturance. 
     Their children :
	 self-assertive, independent, friendly with peers, and cooperative
	 with parents. Both intellectually and socially they demonstrated 
	 success, enjoyment and strong motivation toward achievement.


     PERMISSIVE parents:
	low control, high communication, low maturity, high nurturance
     Their children :
	 Children showed a lack of instrumental competence, self-reliance, 
	 vitality and self-control, BUT were more positive in their moods
	 and showed more vitality than children of authoritarian families.

from "Social and Personality Development", by William Damon.


diana

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Family dinner (was Re: Eating Healthy (was Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:57:41 GMT

lcheap@cac.washington.edu (Laurel Cheap ) writes:

>Does anyone else have this problem?  I'd like dinnertime to be a more
>social time (not just during commercials :) ) since it's the only meal
>of the weekday that we all have together.  I grew up with family
>dinners and would like to start having them in my home especially now
>that Brendan is old enough to sit through a meal and eat on his own.

>Any solutions/advise out there?  (divorce is not an option :) )

It's really not an option?  =)  Oh darn!  There goes my best solution!!

Seriously speaking . . . Is there any chance hubbie could listen to
National Public Radio News on the radio on the ride home?  I do this
and get LOTS of great news, national, world and local.  Also, would
your hubbie wait until a 10:00 news program (if there is one in your
area)?

Any chance you could talk to your husband and explain to him that
you'd really love to have healthy, family interaction at the dinner
table?  At this rate, your son might grow up thinking eating and
watching TV is a given.  I know it's tough to break the eating
and wathcing TV habit, but maybe you could talk to your husband.

Good Luck!

allen
-- 
--------------------------------------------------
  Allen Warren 
  TSSI -- Beaverton, OR 
  Disclaimer:  My ramblings are NOT those of TSSI          
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Class Sizes
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:29:56 GMT

In article <2379@gandalf.intel.com> linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin) writes:
>I, too, remember classes with 30-35 kids in them with no teacher's aid/help,
>and my teachers got along just fine.  However, I do think one of the problems
>of large class sizes now days is that there is no punishment allowed by the
>teacher and the kids know that so they are less inclined to behave.  I am not
>saying I think there should be punishment in the classrooms, but I remember
>many, many times when a teacher would swat a misbehaved student across the
>bottom with a ruler or a paddle.  Just knowing they may get paddled could
>have been enough of an incentive to keep some students in line - I know it was
>for me.  

I also went to schools with classes about that size. I dont remember any 
corporal punishment, but they may have just use it on the boys. But, I
think your answe is too simplistic. In your class how many kids didnt speak
english? how many had parents who use/used drugs? how many didnt have 
breakfast before they came to school? I think most of the people on the
net probably went to schools that didnt see to much of that sort of stuff.

People also are assuming that *everyone* thrived in those larger classes
back then. Maybe the people who are questioning the need for smaller classes
did do well, but those larger classes let a few kids slip thru the cracks, 
even a generation ago. Kids that needed special attention probably didnt get
it.
>

Laura Floom
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted: Is Six Years Old too Young for a Sleep-over?
Keywords: pajama party, sleep-over
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:59:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: citron.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov12.184359.2976@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eacln@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (carol.l.nolan) writes:
>
>My daughter, who turned 6 about a month ago, has just been invited to
>a sleep-over birthday party for one of her 1st grade classmates.
(stuff deleted for brevity)
>the night at her best friends house (3 doors away).  But my gut reaction 
>is that six years old is too young for a sleep-over party. 

I agree with you that 6 is too young.  We had a sleepover party for
my just-turned-8 year old.  This is the youngest we'd permit a
sleepover party (he wanted one last year but we said no).

Another point to consider is the number of kids.  My now-10 year old
had sleepover parties for both his 9th and 10th birthdays.   The
9th birthday party had too many kids for a sleepover -- I think
we had 7 or 8 boys over --
and almost no sleeping occurred.  It also disrupted the
sleep of the two younger boys.  The next time, we had only two other
boys, and things went well. We probably could have handled a couple
more boys the second time.  I think the 8-year old had two or three
boys for his party.

Peggy
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: bower@hfsi.uucp (Michael Bower Comm. )
Subject: crying 6 year old....
Reply-To: bower@hfsi.UUCP (Michael Bower Comm. )
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:55:21 GMT

Dear Netters,

We have a situation with our six year old that is driving us batty.
Can anybody help?

The problem is crying.  Emily will start crying for the littlest thing.
She doesn't like what we are having for dinner.  She is upset because
older sister will not let her......  She can't find something......
She doesn't know what to take for sharing time but wants to take something...
The lining in her coat is wrinkled.....The moon is orange.....The
aliens who live on Mars don't have Mars bars......

YOu name it, she has cried about it.

We suspect that it is just a phase and VAGUELY remember going through
this with her older sister.  But it seems more acute this time.

We have tried to pampered Emily a little but don't want to spoil her.
(When she can't find something it is often easier to find it than to 
convince her to go look for it.  (Especially when I know it is in plain
sight and she just doesn't want to go look).)

Your comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Help!!!!!!

Michael Bower

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Bower - N4NMR                                    HFS Inc. 
e-mail: uunet!hfsi!bower                     7900 Westpark Drive.
phone:(h) 703-435-5081  (o) 703-827-3559         McLean, VA 22102
Compuserve: 72050,1577 (uunet!Compuserve.com!72050.1577) 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lewis@linac.fnal.gov (June Cummins Lewis)
Subject: Re: a new fun thread??
Organization: Fermilab, Batavia, IL
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:47:54 GMT

In article <0ezz09K00UhW42wodc@andrew.cmu.edu> Judi Mancuso <jm5p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Thank you Diane!  I don't know how old your child is---but I have a 17
>month old and that is even worse!  In fact, the other day I caught
>myself lying to save the person's embarrassment (and at times I have
>been known to be downright nasty--which is not fair!)--"next month"
>(thinking "don't I look tiny for being 8 months pregnant?").  Well, I am
>at least working on looking non-pregnant!  Not so easy after C-section
>#2 over the age of 30some and gaining well over 75 lbs. with each (YES!
>OVER 75!)  Even though I only have another 35 (ONLY!) to get down to
>normal weight---I guess all these oversized clothes don't help either. 
>I am hoping to think up a really great response---any ideas?   Judi  
>

In my case, not only have I lost all the weight from being pregnant,
but I weigh less than I did before I got pregnant, and I am taking
exercise classes, etc.  Still, at least four people have asked me if I
am pregnant!  I guess my tummy sticks out a bit more than it used to.
Yet, I fit in all the clothes from before I was pregnant.  How much
can it be sticking out?

Any suggestions as to how I should respond to this?  (Please don't say
"do situps!")

June

-- 
"Saying that men talk about baseball in	order to avoid talking about their
feelings is the same as saying that women talk about their feelings in order
to avoid talking about baseball."
			--Deborah Tannen, author of _You Just Don't Understand_
From: gbk@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (g.b.karlovsky)
Subject: Renovations for allergies
Keywords: allergies, carpet, house
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:57:53 GMT



I read a small part of a string discussing how to help kids with allergies.
I remember reading about someone who stated they did everything short of
removing carpeting and someone else saying remove the carpet, and I'm 
looking for info on what "everything short of removing carpet" is, and
also looking for info regarding removing the carpeting.

My problem is that I live in a 23 year old house, probably with 5 or 6
year old carpet.  I am currently on two allergy medications which I know I
won't be able to stay on if and when I get pregnant (right now, only a
future plan, but renovations take a while).  Off the meds I get severe head-
aches.  Right now, the allergies are getting worse.  I am waking up with
puffy eyes.  We are hoping to sell our house and move into a new one, 
probably with wooden floors if I get my way, but the way the real estate 
market is, I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon either. And in the
meantime, I'm miserable.

So here are a couple of questions:

1. If we decide to get rid of the carpet, is getting brand new carpet going
to mean that my allergies won't get better (assuming we are only in the house
for another year or so)?  

2. Are there things that you do to the floors to help things even more?  
I realize that wood floors is the best thing and we would invest in that 
if we planned on staying in the house, but I think that wood floors are 
at least as expensive and houses that have new carpeting sell quicker...

3.  What else can we do to the house to help our allergies?


Thanks in advance, and please send me e-mail since this thread need not be
repeated (it was pretty recent).



	***********************************************************
	*							  *
	*   Gail Karlovsky	(gail.karlovsky@att.com)	  *
	*        		(mom to Adrienne - born 4/30/90)  *
	*							  *
	*							  *
	*   The ideas expressed here are mine and do not 	  *
	*   reflect the opinions of my employer.		  *
	*							  *
	***********************************************************

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Subject: Re: Putting Children First
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:34:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.101303.15767@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> tnzj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>My two girls are the most intensely beautiful things in the world. 

You obviously NEVER met my God-daughter Jessica, my nephew Robert, or
my nieces Ashley and Lauren!

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth!   ;-)
-- 
Mark Wuest                              |     *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com                      |
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)        |
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: NASA/JSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:37:11 GMT

In article <25819@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David
Shackelford) writes:
>In article <LOWRY.92Nov4105350@rotor.watson.ibm.com> lowry@watson.ibm.com
(Andy Lowry) writes:
>>In article <25769@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David
Shackelford) writes:
>
>It is not ineffective.  Proof by contradiction.  I was spanked by
>my parents.  I am well-adjusted and have normal 
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WRONG! Dave, you need help.

(if somewhat
>conservative) values.  Spanking was effective with me.  Therefore
>it is not ineffective.  QED.
>
>



*****************************************************************
John R. Cobarruvias, Texas A&M Class of '78, 
NASA Johnson Space Center Houston Tx.
(713)483-9357

"And to think..................I hesitated" (Hellraiser II)
*****************************************************************
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Age, aging, and appearance
Date: 6 Nov 1992 19:49:31 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


This was triggered by some material on alt.kids-talk; but I've been wondering
about it for a while anyway.

There's the common practice of estimating a person's age from physical
appearance.  There were some postings from people in their twenties who
look sixteen, and from people in their teens who look mid-twentyish.
So I've been wondering if people who look young for their age in the
teens and twenties continue looking younger than their true age
throughout life, and if they age more slowly and live longer than
average.  Conversely do people who look old for their age as teens
continue to do so throughout life and age more rapidly and have shorter
life spans than average?  

I assume these cases are all considered normal variations and not
pathological conditions like precocious puberty or long-delayed puberty
or even absence of puberty.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was!"
"No it aint!  But ya gotta know the territory!"
        Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Cutting baby hair
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 02:59:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.183748.19818@nas.nasa.gov> choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>Are there special safe scissors for cutting kids hair?  I'm looking for
>something that is rounded at the tip so I don't poke my baby by mistake.
>
>diana

I recommend going to the pet store and buying a pair designed for cutting
dog's hair.  They are very sharp where it counts, but have rounded tips
so you can't stab the little critters.

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: schwartz@ces.cwru.edu (David G. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: It's a boy!  It's a boy!
Date: 10 Nov 1992 15:12:40 GMT
Organization: COMPOSERS Logic Programming Group/CWRU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bach.ces.cwru.edu


We are thrilled to announce the birth of twin boys,
born Monday, November 2, 1992.

Twin 'A', Noam Yefet, arrived at 6:43am weighing in at 6 lbs 15oz.
Twin 'B', Tal Yair, arrived at 6:56am weighing in at 7 lbs 5oz.

Since the news system does not yet have voice annotation, you'll
have to guess at the pronunciation.

I expect this to be a real boost to my thesis productivity as I now
have a rocking chair in front of my keyboard and can work on my thesis
at 3am while I rock the babies.  All I need are two extra arms.

To those of you expecting twins who have expressed concern
about prematurity and other possible problems:
  ... Ronit carried them for 39 weeks, going in to labor the day before
      she was scheduled to be induced.
  ... Noam was vertex (head down) and came out fine, Tal was breach
      (feet first) and our OB (Mark Libertin) delivered him that way.
      Actually, it was a breach "extraction" in which the Dr. reaches
      up to pull the baby down - not the best way to go, but much much
      better than a C-section.
  ... Possibly because of the breach delivery, Tal had a 1 minute Apgar
      score of 1, but was up to 9 after 5 minutes.

I'd be happy to answer any questions about our experience.
E-mail to: schwartz@alpha.ces.cwru.edu


Now the real fun begins!!

    David and Ronit Schwartz, 
    and big brother Ariel.

-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Schwartz - Case Western Reserve University - schwartz@alpha.ces.cwru.edu