HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:22:13 GMT

In article <192001@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:

>on a 286 with a neat shareware utility.  What the 286 can't do is multitask
>multiple DOS sessions.  A 386, of course, can (yes, I know it doesn't pre-
>emptively multitask).

Ever try something simple like having two DOS sessions run the dir command
simultaneously?  Do both session scroll at once?
>



-- 
John G. Ata                     | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
Technical Consultant            |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!mercury!ata
HFS, Inc.		  VA20	|    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601 |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari is irrelevant.  Falcon is irrelevant.  You will be assimilated.
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:58:55 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Distribution: world
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <mykes.09b4@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

>Take Amiga Corp., which designed the Amiga hardware and software, and
>multiply it by 10 and you have Atari (in the respects that count).

So let's see...  The original Amiga corp no longer exists.  So are you saying 
that Atari Corp is 10x more non-existant.  No, that can't be.  OK, so let's 
see here, the original Amiga Corp was bought up by Commodore.  I know that Atari
Corp wasn't bought up 10x more by Commmodore, there's no reason for anyone to
buy Atari.  The original Amiga corp contained lots of very smart guys who are
now off doing other things.  Now, maybe Atari at once contained 10x as many
engineers, but I doubt it, since they never produce anything new on their own
(they do buy stuff, which is generally a good idea if the price is right).
They certainly didn't contain folks 10x as good as the Amiga folks -- quite a 
few of the people who followed Jack to Atari were bozos, and I know some of
them aren't around Atari anymore.  So I guess the conclusion could only be that
10x as many people are ex-Atari as ex-Amiga.  That kind of makes sense, if for
no other reason than Atari has been around for awhile :-).



>
>> ---
>> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> "If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
>>                                 --new campaign slogan
>
>--
>Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
>and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024


-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Dave Hanie for C= Chairman of Board of Diretors! UE T
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:01:21 GMT

 jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
>people who really are the magic of the Amiga.  Such being the case the
>clearest soloution to the problem as I perceive it is remove the
>offending parties, namely the FIVE members who sit on the board of
>directors.  Mark Barrett sent me some posts from around advocay and I
> 
    Those five own enough stock between them to control commodore whether
the more intelligent stockholders like it or not.  I agree that the
board of directors needs to be ousted, but that's not going to happen
short of a buyout by another company.

>
>What about 500 networking?  I don't know anyone in the public school
>system that has the money to shell out $300 per machine for internet
>cards.  I'm sure SANAII will be great (when released sometime after
>Mac's have radio tranmitters for networking) but as I read in a post
>in datacomm the poors guys are at C= are so busy they were soliciting
>help form anyone who wanted to write a driver for the project.  Is
>this the new C= professional company?  Skimp on adverstising, R&D, and

     For A500 networking, CBM has had an arcnet card available for several
years.  

     As far as SANA-II, it's here _NOW_; I can quote the Fred Fish disk 
number where the final specs are released, if you want.  The CBM folks
aren't "soliciting help to write a driver".  SANA-II is not a program,
it's a specification for transparent networking and network applications
on Amigas relatively indepentdent of hardware or protocol issues.  They're
not asking for drivers, they're providing a standard way for all developers
to address networking solutions and providing support to third parties
in developing such products.  IMHO, this is what CBM's software development
should be geared toward: don't try the roll-your-own method of creating
important Ami applications; instead provide the facilities so that third
party developers have the tools and knowledge at their disposal to 
create such things themselves.

 
-- 
Don Lloyd                / "...my brain IBM; so if you see me acting strangely,\
don@chopin.udel.edu      \ don't be surprised." - Styx, 'Mr. Roboto'           /
Gibberish is Spoken Here.          Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork 
      MicroSoft Slogan: Resistance is Futile.  You Will Be Assimilated.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:23:29 GMT

dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>Mike, if you think that an Amiga with an accelerator and a 24-bit TIGA
>>board can even begin to approach the performance of an Indigo Elan, you
>>are badly disillusioned.  On the other hand, that Elan graphics board alone
>>costs something like $16K.
>
>	I agree with both of you. The Amiga does achieve the performance from
>the specs I have seen (within 10% on raw data), but of course would lack
>the specialized software. Which in fact may be even more felxible if
>programmed on an Amiga...that is dependant on my next question of course.

I dare say that Mike Schwartz knows a thing or two about programming.  One
might even say that he prefers to right his own applications if he has the
necessary hardware and a good compiler.  I would not presume to speak for
Mr. Schwartz though...

>	What does an Indigo have in it hardware wise? What kind of expansion
>slots does it have? What OS does it run (UNIX?)?

I am curious about the Indigo's software.  We have some 3D graphics packages
here, but I have not discovered any wordprocessors, databases, etc.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: adrake@bluemoon.rn.com (Andy Drake)
Subject: Would someone
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:54:48 EDT

Would someone please re-post the Amiga Obit? I'd love to re-read it after 
the response from Commodore. Thanks in advance,

                        -Andy

 This is from
     adrake@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:37:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul29.213556.2321@uwm.edu>

Did someone just post that Skip was Jesus and he wrote the Koran?

Man...I wonder how long before THIS shows up on GEnie, FIDO (arf!),
and the rest?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys)
Subject: Re: Atari Lynx and Gameboy
Reply-To: aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:21:51 GMT


In a previous article, gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) says:

>oleg@crumpet.cts.com (Oleg Rovner) writes:
>>Unfortunately Lynx is not selling diddly here in San Diego, or at least
>>not occupying any shelf space worth mentioning.
>
>A couple guys a work just bought Lynxes.  It is a neat little game
>system.  The Gameboy is much more popular, though.  Besides, my brother
>tells me that Nintendo has a color SuperGameboy planned.
>
>-- Gerald
>

By the time Nintendo releases their color GameBoy, Atari will already
rule among color portables.  I heard their Batman Returns campaign was
a major success and they sold out in most places.


-- 
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:51:59 GMT

gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
: I am curious about the Indigo's software.  We have some 3D graphics packages
: here, but I have not discovered any wordprocessors, databases, etc.

If I'm not mistaken FrameMaker (SGI's own port) and Oracle runs on
Silicon Graphics workstations.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 30 Jul 92 05:21:51 GMT

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

>upper 8-bits of addresses are ignored by the CPU.  With the 68000, the
>upper byte of addressers are ignored - and Apple in their infinite wisdom
>used those bits in system memory allocation (and other) OS calls - effectively
>limiting memory usage to 16Megs...

  I'm sure 16Megs seemed more than enough to the 128K Mac designers.
And when it came time to be fixed (in System 7), the design was clean
enough that it could be done without breaking a huge number of
programs.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:56:09 GMT

In article <33215@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>In article <mykes.09ag@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>>Now for the really sad part:  How many machines (models) has apple released
>>this year?  
>
>Apple came out with a new Quadra this year.  Those, and the laptops, were
>reasonably interesting.  Things like LCs and Classics are just powered down
>rehashes of old Mac IIs.

   Of the five new Amigas that have been developed since 1987, how many of
them are simply rehashes of the A1000?  Answer: three; A500, A2000, and A600.
The other two (A3000 and CDTV) don't offer all that much more in the line of
improvements; CDTV is basically just an A1000 with a CD-ROM drive, and the
A3000 is basically an A1000 with built-in '030, FPU, SCSI port, and display
enhancer.  (I'm not counting the A2500 systems, because those are hardware
bundles and not new systems)

>>Why has Apple and NeXt come out with 040 based machine months and months ago 
>>while there is no 040 Amiga.
>
>Marketing.  Apple and NeXT required it, C= marketing decided for the moment 
>that the 3rd parties were doing the job.  

   Doing what job?  What is the world-wide installed base of '040 Amigas 
compared to the world-wide installed base of NeXTs or MACs?  Probably a hell
of a lot smaller.  For a mass-marketed system like the Amiga, this is 
pathetic.

>>Why make Unix run on an Amiga instead of designing a real machine designed 
>>to run Unix well?
>
>The A3000 certainly was designed to run UNIX well.  Anything necessary to
>make AmigaOS run well will also make UNIX run well, since they have the
>same basic constraints.  

   Not quite.  AmigaOS runs very well on an A2000 with a 14Mhz 68020
accelerator, 4M of RAM, and 40M SCSI hard drive.  No modern versions of UNIX
will run at all on such a system, because it lacks an MMU, doesn't have enough
memory, and hardly enough hard disk space to even load the Kernal (forget
about swap space, local files, temporary files, device drivers, or anything
else).

>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
>	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
                                --new campaign slogan


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: 586/p5 not available in systems this year
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:28:09 GMT

Found in comp.arch :

Wall Street Journal, Thursday 23:

'Intel delays debut of P-5 chip to refine production process & eliminate bugs'

[...] Intel originally planned to introduce the P-5 and begin limited produc-
tion in the fourth quarter of 1992. But it now plans to introduce the chip in
the first quarter of 1993, said Paul Otellini, vice president in charge of 
intel's microprocessor business.
[...] Mr. Otellini said the postponement wasn't caused by any unexpected flaws
in the P-5 or glitches in the manufacturing process, but added that it will
allow intel extra time to test the chip for possible defects.


I told you so.   :-)

-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
              "Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate."
From: i897515@redgum.ucnv.edu.au (DERF)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AmigaDroids will *never* change
Date: 25 Jul 92 04:18:47 GMT
Organization: UCNV, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

In article <Fg1aoB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com> troy@bluemoon.rn.com (Troy Fridley) writes:
>  I personaly really like JM, Except that I've had some major problem s 
> with it!  It seems to really mess with my serial ports. (A VERY BIG 
>problem when you run a BBS in the BackGround!)  I have found though that 
>Useing it on my 3000 and Useing the Quantums that I can run MANY different 
>MAJOR CPU tasks and lose almost no Proformance from them.. I Sugest that 
>everyone check it out!  (Has there been a version of JM released that 
>fixes my bug?) 
> 

Yes the bug has been fixed in 1.1a.  The latest version is 1.1b.
This program works really well on my A500 too.


>                Troy
> UUCP: Troy@Bluemoon.uucp

Craig Arnoldt
------
i897515@redgum.ucnv.edu.au
derf@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au
------
From: hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PCs are pieces of shit
Date: 19 Jul 92 12:16:03 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


>If everybody thoght grey was so much more professional,how come all the ads I
>see for IBM spreadsheets show bright, happy colours??????                    
                                                                              
>Skeksis                                                                      
                                                                              
  Colors brighten up the mood. When showing your software that you're trying  
to sell to the people looking at your ad, you use tricks to get them to buy.  
Bright colors liven up the atmosphere and feeling. People see the nice bright 
colors and say wow that's neat, that looks easy. Then people buy your software
and the marketing poeple get to stay on for another month.                    


UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Revenge of the OS Names (Was: OS Names - what they are...)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 16:52:46 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul21.173504.25860@cs.rose-hulman.edu>

What CBM needs to do is give AmigaDOS a snappy name...howzabout:

DeathtowindowsOS
WhycantsierrausetheblitterOS
A486ischeaperthanthe3000OS
Subliminal<sex>OS<sex>


I don't like the name of the last one, but I think they'd sell
a lot better.
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:11:46 GMT
Organization: Amiga makes it possible
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Jul27.170939.23919@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
> >
> >Marc - the problem with Amiga image processing software is that they should
> >provide their own VM and should overlay the program, if needed, to make room.
> >No general purpose VM scheme is going to be as fast or slick as a custom one
> >designed for the App.
> >
>
> A-ha.  And how do they decide how much actual RAM to use?  This is a losing
> argument, Mike.  OS features belong in the OS.
>

There are programs that have "vm" implemented in them for the Amiga.  DPaint
comes to mind - and it just asks you whether you want it to hog memory or not.
Actually, I would have loved to have had a -HOG and -NASTY switch  on my CLI
commands.  -HOG would tell the app to use all the resources it wants and needs.
-Nasty would tell the app to blow my multitasking out of the water if it can
do so for some benefit (faster or more features, etc.).

> >
> >Imagine the thrashing a GP VM algorithm does when you have 1Meg of real RAM
> >and want to use 1Meg plus 128 bytes of VM.  You will be constantly paging
> >in and out 128 byte blocks, spending lots of CPU time inside of VM routines,
> >etc.
> >
>
> The "thrashing" you describe would only happen if your program kept looping
> through and accessing the entire 1M+128 bytes.
>

Try running Win 3.1 on a 1 meg machine and you will see thrashing with 2 apps.

> My UNIX machine routinely overcommits memory (and by a lot more than 128
> bytes!), and I've yet to see it *thrash*.  I've seen the Suns at work do this
> once in a blue moon, and only when something went seriously wrong (like a 15MB
> process which kept forking itself indefinitely).
>
> >
> >Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
> >
> --
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
> | Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
> |    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
> +-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
> |           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
> |                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Date: 25 Jul 92 21:27:10 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <1992Jul25.134910.41871@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> cuadrasola@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>One of the things that I (and many other people) dislike of Commodore is
>that they never release any news on the kind of products they are working on
>and plan to release in the near future.

	Personally, I'm glad Commodore keeps it quiet.  Here is a perfect
example of why it's good:  the stupid EMPLANT flames in
comp.sys.amiga.emulations.

	One of the developers there made the mistake of "pre-announcing" his
product in public.  This started lots of speculation about it.  The 
speculation turned to rumors.  The rumors turned to anger.  The angry
people said "why isn't it out yet?!?"  The developer said "it will be
out on such-and-such a date."  One month before that date, people started
flaming that "it better be out or else I'm going to [fill in the blank]!!"
Other people responded and said "why don't you just wait and see?!?  It's
not out yet!"  Then others said "it will never come out!"  People called
it vaporware EVEN BEFORE THE SUPPOSED RELEASE DATE.

	The release date came and went with no product coming out.
The flamers said "See?  I told you!"  The developer said "we are just
waiting for FCC approval -- the product is done."  People shouted "Why
haven't there been any magazine reviews yet?!?"  More people yelled,
and others got angry, etc etc etc etc etc.

	And you think .advocacy is bad.  1/2 :-)

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:38:24 GMT

As my reasearch has discovered, Virtual Memory has been implemented on
the Amiga, as of February.  Therefore, if you need it, it is available.

Thom