From: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Labels.... (was: Re: Hatred? What Hatred?)
Keywords: Muslims, Chetniks, et al
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:53:43 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

jodar@aludra.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) writes:

>I previously wrote:
>>>The only thing that has kept the Bosnian Muslims from declaring
>>>Jihad is the fear of the non-Muslims.  

>[ie. The Muslims weren't declaring Jihad out of courtesy to the
>non-Muslims.]

>>>But the Serbs (and Croats)
>>>are killing off all of those who object to Jihad....

>[Both Muslim and non-Muslim....  Those who are surviving are
>beginning to see Jihad as an attractive alternative.]

>Erland (sommar@enea.se) responded:
>>Don't you think that the fact that main bulk of the Muslims in B-H
>>actually cares very little about anything holy, be it Jihad or
>>Allah, has something to do with it?

>That was how this whole mess started.  Allah (SWT) says:

>1)	Those who turn their backs on their Islam will be 
>	given a warning, (eg. flood in Pakistan, earthquake
>	in Egypt, etc.), then oppressed, then persecuted, 
>	and finally killed;

>2)	The day that Muslims start killing Muslims, (eg. the
>	Gulf War), the Muslims will be overrun by their enemies
>	and slaughtered by the thousands;

>3)	Allah (SWT) will raise up new Muslims to replace those
>	who went astray--Muslims who fear only Allah, who are
>	Humble with the Believers (ie. those who do good), and
>	Harsh with the Unbelievers (ie. those who do bad).

>By now, however, those Muslims who have abandoned Islam are:
>(a) dead; (b) fled the country and dying; or (c) returned to
>Islam and taking up arms against the oppressors.

ANA: for the argument's sake only - does this mean that the war
     in Bosnia is really a result of: 
 (1) Muslims turning back to their Islam.
 (2) The Gulf War
 (3) Allah exterminating non-believers in order to replace them with
     the true believers.

Do not misunderstand me, but this kind of reasons obscure what is really
happening and lead into thinking that for all what is happening the
true guilty party are in fact Muslims who are not Mulsim enough.


>How you define 'fanatic' I have no idea, but the only people
>I've seen/read on this group who appear to fit that description
>aren't Muslim....  In fact, the definition of 'Muslim' is almost
>exactly the opposite of the definition of 'fanatic.'

>Not that some people care how they label others....  I'm trying
>to be more careful, myself.

>No doubt about it, there's been a lot of labeling, lately, and 
>much of it is questionable.  People talk about Muslims being an 
>ethnicity or nationality when all it takes to be Muslim is a 
>belief in Allah (SWT) and 'His' Prophet (SAW).  We see the 
>Defenders in Bosnia being labeled 'Muslims' when in fact there 
>are Jews and Christians among them.  We see the Aggressors in 
>Bosnia being labeled 'the Serbs,' while there are many Serbs 
>fighting against the pogrom.  (In fact, many are becoming 
>Muslim....)

>I would even question calling the Aggressors 'Chetniks'....

With that I agree - and that is the tool of the leaders in this
war: to BRAND whole groups of people for slaughter.

>But one thing is certain:  EVERYbody is going to be held
>accountable for their actions (ALL of them) on the Day of
>Judgement, and NOT THE SLIGHTEST THING is going to be overlooked
>by the Creator.

>(I will be held accountable for every word in this article, as
>well as the effect it may have on every person that reads it....)

This may be comforting to you but it won't help anyone save their life,
change the situation and produce something better than this war. In a way
it is a kind of closing your eyes and helplesly waiting for the 
stronger forces (either a God or human armies) to finish their
dance macabre.

>That said, we now return to our regular broadcasting....

Please, do not be offended, I have just tried to point out some
problems with this kind of reasoning, and not to question you as a person
or your good will

>-AQ

  With hopes for peace

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Ana M. Shane                              voice: (215)-843-2909
334 Winona St.
Philadelphia, PA 19144      e-mail: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu