HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:55:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.210659.26722@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers) writes:
>> Anti-r.m.h people:  why do you continue to base your arguments on the
>> premise that once r.m.h exists, Harley riders will no longer participate 
>> in r.m?  
>
>Perhaps it is because the pro-r.m.h folks keep asserting that
>all or most of the Harley folks have left because there is "nothing 
>in r.m for them".  Only one or the other of these two "premises" can be 
>true at any given time.  It seems unreasonable to expect us to accept
>mutually exclusive assertions simultaneously.   

They're not mutually exclusive.  The individual Harley
enthusiasts who still participate in rec.motorcycles
obviously still find things of value there.  I see no
reason to expect that perceived value to go away when
rec.motorcycles.harley is created.  Whatever the reasons
are that caused Harley folks to move to the newsgroup,
they're real and they're not going away.

I'll repeat my contention that the most effective means
available to bring the defectors back to rec.motorcycles
is to create rec.motorcycles.harley.  It would demonstrate good
faith and it would bring the Harley folks back to usenet,
where they could explore r.m as their curiosity and masochistic
tendencies might lead them to do.

>The HD-list is a convincing case, as is the repeated claim that r.m.h
>will bring the list members "back" while r.m. will not.

OK, Chuck, show us.  How are you going to bring the Harley
list members back to rec.motorcycles?

--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@forel.stanford.edu
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.forsale.computers reorganization
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:04:20 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <2436@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> chrielli@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Chris Ellington) writes:
>I think that m.f.c should stay the way it is due to cross-posting.

Once again, it's time to point out:

CROSSPOSTING IS ESSENTIALLY FREE.

It is a Good Thing, if done appropriately.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
"Right now, because of you, this city is being overrun by baboons." "Don't
 you think that's the responsibility of the voters?" -- _Naked Gun 2-1/2_
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: eric@telebit.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.int-fiction
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Telebit Corporation
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:33:21

>>On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:25:29 GMT, forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Scott Forbes) said:
> The group rec.arts.int-fiction, chartered for the purpose of discussing the
> art of *writing* interactive fiction games, frequently finds itself flooded
> with articles from game players instead of game programmers.  This newsgroup
> would provide some relief for rec.arts.int-fiction, and give the rest of us
> a better place to go.  :-)

The proposal seems reasonable.  I would also suggest that to really keep
more of the players out of r.a.i-f, it should be changed to something like
rec.arts.int-fiction.design or .programming or some such.

Even if rec.games.int-fiction is created, I still think newbies will stumble
across r.a.i-f and stop looking.

Eric
From: lon@edsi.plexus.COM (Lon Ponschock)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: 2nd straw poll request re:misc.support.stop-smoking
Summary: A second straw poll to reflect name changes to misc.support.stop-smoki
Keywords: misc.support.stop-smoking
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:24:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: edsi.1992Jul30.012403.21172
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI


     I am requesting a second straw poll for the group

     misc.support.stop-smoking for 2 reasons:

     The first is to test the mailing addresses for the
yes/no votes.  The second is to gauge whether this group
should be taken to a vote at this time.

     I have enclosed a copy of the finalized version of
the Charter which has incorporated name changes to
reflect the intent of the group:

     The misc. hierarchy was selected to allow a maximum
         number of readers but not get confused with the
         political debates in the talk.hierarchy.

     The .support element indicates the ability to
         establish other support groups.

     .stop-smoking shows the specific intent of the
          group.

I have enclosed a copy of the Charter for those who may
not have seen it and for those sites at which the
Charter may have expired:
========================================================

THE CHARTER

     Misc.support.stop-smoking would be an unmoderated
forum to exchange information on the long term effects
of quitting the smoking habit.  These questions regard
physical changes such as weight gain (does it ever
normalize?) and how can life crises start up the smoking
addiction after a period of calm and abstinence?

     The purpose of this forum is to show that smoking
is a true addiction and requires long term support.
This support would be found through contacts with those
who are on a similar timeline to the individual reading
the forum: A Smokers Anonymous.

     So, misc.support.stop-smoking would be available on
an as-needed basis for any and all questions regarding
techniques for quitting, family problems which arise
from a change in behavior and maybe of greatest
importance, the group would be available during that
period when the individual thinks that she or he is
"out of the woods" but discovers that nothing could be
further from the truth.
========================================================

      The Straw Poll Votes will be collected at two
      addresses:

     smokeyes@edsi.plexus.com  ... to vote YES

      smokeno@edsi.plexus.com  ... to vote NO

Thanks to all who have participated in the discussion
and encouraged me to complete the voting procedure.

The Call For Votes will, in all likelihood, take place
beginning August 8th, 1992.  This date is 30 days past
the latest collection of New Group information posted by
the moderator.  However, the 8th is a Saturday.  I will
consult with the Net Gods for a ruling. :-)

Tell your friends and anyone else who should be
interested.

lon
-- 
   Question Recently
   Posed to the Net:'Kukla, Fran & Ollie' which one is which?
   Answer: Tom Servo is Kukla, Crooow is Ollie and Joel is Fran.
   lon@edsi.plexus.com
Xref: sparky news.groups:16024 comp.unix.sysv386:12345
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.unix.* reorganization
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:15:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro
Originator: richard@astro.West.Sun.COM

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to dws@ssec.wisc.edu:
>>     comp.unix.emulators.dos
>But sometimes MS-DOS *isn't* being emulated.  For example, VP/ix and
>Merge/386 actually _do_ run DOS in a virtual 8086.  Thus you have DOS
>under UNIX, but the DOS is not emulated; it's real.

I disagree.  Under VP/ix and Merge, the 386 is emulating an 8086 and Unix
is emulating DOS and the BIOS.  Things like "in" and "out" instructions
are trapped to Unix which emulates the I/O if it is allowed.  The "BIOS"
which is loaded onto the virtual 8086 is a "Unix BIOS" which avoids DOS
stupidities such as busy waiting.  I believe the DOS system code itself
is similarly modified (which is why you can't install just any version
of DOS with Merge).  Writes to "console memory" may be translated into
ANSI sequences if you are running Merge on a terminal rather than on the
console.

All that aside, though, I prefer "dos_under_unix" to "emulators.dos".
Another idea would be to call it something like "dos_with_unix" to
include things like PC-Interface and PC NFS which allow DOS and unix
systems to work together even when not running on the same machine.
Merge was based on PC-Interface code, for example, and they share many
features.

     Richard M. Mathews			Lietuva laisva = Free Lithuania
					Brivu Latviju  = Free Latvia
Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM		Eesti vabaks   = Free Estonia
					        WE  DID  IT!!!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein)
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Organization: Bit Herders International
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:15:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.153814.171@wpi.WPI.EDU> mick@maxine.wpi.edu (Ravi Narayan) writes:
+Somewhere, Sometime, Thus Spake paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein):
+:- +
+:- Voting down rec.moto.hd will not make anyone come back.  
+:- Voting down rec.moto will just keep the bulk of the HD riders off of
+:-  usenet.  If that is your goal, vote NO.
+
+	please go read my previous posts.

Just to keep the record straight, it was not I that made those quotes.
However, I do agree with the poster 100% (at least).

I have read your previous posts.  Could you extract/summarize the points
from them that are relevant to these quotes?  

============================================================================
Don't hate me for my race, religion or sex.  First, get to know me.  Then,
I am sure that you will find plenty to hate me for :-).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Paul D. Blumstein, paulb@tti.com, DoD #36, AMA, HOG, KD6LAA, LS/MFT
         Transaction Technology, Inc., Santa Monica, CA
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Subject: Re: comp.unix.apple2gs (suggest CFV ASAP)
Organization: Ursa Minor Beta, 402-476-8047 @ 2400
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 04:41:07 GMT

bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>>Comp.unix.apple2gs is a descriptive name. It's not the best, but it's
>>reasonably accurate.
>>
>>Comp.unix.apple2gs-arch contains no more information, is misleading (the
>>IIGS isn't a multivendor computer) and is downright ugly.

>  It was a _joke_, son.  No more of a joke than comp.unix.ibm-arch, but
>a joke nonetheless.

Yes.  And now, a bit more seriously, perhaps we should hold out on this
proposal until we find out the fate of comp.unix.*.  If it does move
under comp.os.unix.* (or comp.arch.unix.* as Peter da Silva mentioned --
seriousness rating not computed), then we might be creating a group
inside a namespace location which is soon to be a void... to be avoided.
:-)

That is if it ends up being created in the .unix. area.  I have no solid
opinions on that yet.

-- gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rv@cs.brown.edu (rodrigo vanegas)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.forsale.computers reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Brown University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 03:35:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.182453.4243@uunet.uu.net>, mmm@qedqcd.rye.ny.us (Mike Miskulin) writes:

> 	misc.forsale.computers.hardware.ibm
> 	misc.forsale.computers.hardware.apple	
> 	misc.forsale.computers.hardware.other
> 	
> 	misc.forsale.computers.software.ibm
> 	misc.forsale.computers.software.apple
> 	misc.forsale.computers.software.other

IMHO

i would prefer "pc" and "mac" to "ibm" and "apple".  Dell and IBM
computers should be in the same group, and "Apple 2e"'s should be in
other.

IMHO

rodrigo_vanegas@brown.edu
From: lon@edsi.plexus.COM (Lon Ponschock)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 3rd RFD: misc.support.stop-smoking
Keywords: RFD,misc.support.stop-smoking
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:16:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: edsi.1992Jul27.181649.22107
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI

lon@edsi.plexus.COM (Lon Ponschock) writes:

[ major part of message deleted]


>Finally there has been virtual agreement on the name of
>the group to be
>                misc.support.quit-smoking
>                or
>                misc.support.stop-smoking


===>  As is indicated in the Subject line,
      misc.support.stop-smoking has been selected for the vote.

>Respond with your comments to lon@edsi.plexus.com or
>post to the relevant newsgroups.

>     Discussion has taken place since the 6th of July
>when the original RFD was posted.  I have gotten much
>positive support from those who have sent mail after
>having incorporated the current revisions to the
>charter.  I will continue to collect information for the
>30 day period and Call For Votes at that time.

>Anyone who wants and/or has not read the charter should
>send mail to
>               lon@edsi.plexus.com
>for a copy.
-- 
   Question Recently
   Posed to the Net:'Kukla, Fran & Ollie' which one is which?
   Answer: Tom Servo is Kukla, Crooow is Ollie and Joel is Fran.
   lon@edsi.plexus.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: kraai4712@iscsvax.uni.edu (jim kraai)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.math.research.fields-institute moderated
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:06:29 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Jul19.174512.6504@math.ucla.edu>, dgc@euphemia.math.ucla.edu 
(David G. Cantor) writes:
> In article <1992Jul15.221332.18130@uunet.uu.net> albers@fields.UWaterloo.ca (Sheri L. Albers) writes:
> 
> 	> The Fields Institute for Research in Mathematical Sciences
> 	> is interested in establishing a newsgroup in the sci.math
> 	> pathway.  A tentative name for this group would be
> 	> sci.math.research.fields-institute.  . . . 
> 	> Basically, postings would be about Institute conference
> 	> announcements and results, seminars, positions available,
> 	> calls for papers, and other news that would be of interest to
> 	> a worldwide readership of mathematicians.  Also there would be
> 	> a summary of events posted on a bi-weekly basis. . . .
> 
> I believe that a news group of this nature is inappropriate.  While
> the reputaton of the Fields prize is well-known, the reputation of the
> Fields Institute remains to be proven.

A newsgroup of this _nature_ is not inappropriate, but one solely dedicated to
the furtherance of one institute is.
 
> In addition there are numerous mathematics institutes:  The Institute at
> Oberwolfach, The Institute for Advance Study in Princeton, Dimacs in New
> Brunswick, MSRI at Berkeley, the Institut for Experimentelle Mathematik
> at Essen, etc.
> 
> While it might be appropriate to have a moderated news group that
> would give news of mathematics conferences, announcements, and
> results, for ALL mathematics, having one for a yet-to-be-tested
> single institute makes no sense.

Grand idea, let's call it sci.math.research.events!

Would someone more experienced than I please put together an RFD?

I volunteer to moderate, but remember I'm _merely_ an undergrad with a passion
for mathematics.  What resources does a moderator need besides time and
patience?  (This was not a rhetorical question, but a serious one.)


jim kraai
Mathematics Major
University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls, IA  50614
Internet:  kraai4712@iscsvax.uni.edu
From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 3rd RFD: comp.binaries.apple2 moderated
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:30:11 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Jul24.035052.2177@uunet.uu.net> gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Greg "Life..." Berigan) writes:
>   Neither the moderator nor his assistants should be held responsible in
>   any way if a virus or commercial program slips through.  The moderator
>   and assistants will expend effort to try to ensure this doesn't happen,
>   but no guarantees are expressed nor implied that that these efforts will
>   be 100% effective.  The moderator and assistants reserve the right to
>   cancel any posting in comp.binaries.apple2 that is deemed inappropriate.
>						       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm not sure I like that last part (mind you, I'm still for moderation).
Maybe it should be "... deemed inappropriate as stated in the charter"?


-- 
-Tero Sand
  EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi     Snail mail: Auroran Sairaala os. 6-1
  (if that doesn't work, try                    Nordenskioldinkatu 20
   cust_ts@kruuna.helsinki.fi)                  00250 Helsinki 25, Finland
Xref: sparky news.groups:15864 comp.os.coherent:3155
From: williams@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov (Jim Williams)
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.unix.* reorganization
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:14:09 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Maryland

I think that moving .minix, .linux, and .coherent under comp.unix[+] is a
terrible idea.  Check out the thread in comp.unix[+].bsd about AT&T suing
BSDI on the issue of intellectual property.  Apparently, USL are going
to be real bastards about this, and possibly endanger any form of free
UNIX[+] that is in any way derived from BSD.  I would therefore encourage
the net to use the "U" word as little as possible.  comp.unix[+].* should
go away, to be replaced by comp.os.unix[+].* (or perhaps comp.os.UNIX[+]TM.*! )
which would *ONLY* be used for "true" USL licensed UNIX[+] versions.
UNIX[+]-like systems, such as minix, linux, bsd, etc., should be peers in
comp.os.  Just my two cents...

Jim

[+]UNIX is a trademark of the overly litigious Unix Systems Laboratories,
who haven't figured out how pissed we all get when they act like twits.

The above opinions are mine, all mine.

-- 
Spoken: James W. Williams			Company: Hughes STX
Internet: williams@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov		Phone: +1 301 286-1131
USPS: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center; Code 633; Greenbelt, MD 20771
Maryland Car Tags: DEV CAR
Newsgroups: news.groups

My quick analysis of it all (leaving Group III as an exercise for the
reader :-):

  .airline	This is of such low volume that I think it can be
		included in .misc.  Besides, there's already a
		rec.travel.air.

  .homebuilt    This is a subgroup that has been asked for.  Let's
		create it.

  .military     There's already sci.military.  I wouldn't mind reading
		the rest in .misc.

  .owning       Fits into .misc nicely.

  .soaring      Another group that's been widely asked for.

  .piloting     I think this would be the majority of .misc articles.

  .training     This would be the other majority of .misc articles.

  .answers      I'm lukewarm to this one.  I don't mind seeing the
		FAQ in .misc.

  .misc         I see this taking over the current rec.aviation.  Let's
		let a majority of the postings fall here, and if there's
		large volume in a specific area that warrants its own
		group, it can be spun off later.  I see most of the volume
		going to this group.


  .cfi          See comments on .training.

  .digest       Lukewarm to this, too.  I guess I'd see this as analogous
		to rec.humor.funny filtering rec.humor.  The content would
		be determined by what interests the moderator.

  .events       Sounds good, but will be low volume.

  .hang-gliding Include this in .soaring.

  .humor        Send it to .misc.

  .ifr          Send it to .misc.

  .products     Send it to .misc.

  .regs         Send it to .misc.

  .simulators   Send it to .misc.

  .theory       Send it to .misc, or to sci.aeronautics.

CONCLUSION
----------

If I were King, I'd divide rec.aviation into:

  rec.aviation.misc		Most postings.

  rec.aviation.homebuilt	Discussions on building planes.

  rec.aviation.soaring		Sailplanes, hang-gliders, paragliding.

  rec.aviation.events		What's happening where.

I'd consider, but not feel strongly about:

  rec.aviation.answers		FAQ stuff.

  rec.aviation.digest		Moderated summary of rec.aviation.*.

Let's start small.  The organization I've suggested allows for growth
later.  I agree with the sentiment that we don't need a separate group
for each rec.aviation.subject-line.
--
Steve Wolf				PHONE: (303) 229-2088
Hewlett-Packard				UUCP:  hplabs!fc.hp.com!woof
Fort Collins, CO			ARPA:  woof@fc.hp.com
Xref: sparky news.groups:15924 rec.motorcycles:24227
From: car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Summary: Consumer Alert
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:33:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul21.015809.8545@morrow.stanford.edu>, karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.161912.18595@ncsu.edu>, steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu
> (Steve Garnier) writes [as quoted by Seth Zirin]:
> 
> > The only thing my post *proves* is how I feel about your libeling me,
> > Chuck Rogers, and other people who have been diligently working at 
> > mitigating biker-bigotry.
> 
> Translation: Steve and Chuck are doing their best to
> enforce political correctness in the motorcycle
> newsgroups, regardless of the effects on the usefulness
> of the groups.  It's inaccurate to call them "anti-Harley
> bigots",  but some of their sensitivities are misplaced.

The careful reader should be aware that this translator is not, in fact,
a Universal Translator (UT), but is, rather, a Karishspeak Filter (KF).  
Specific phrases (error codes) are known to be produced when the employed 
translation heuristic encounters unresolvable referents.  The most common 
of these error codes is the ascii string, "political correctness".  The
heuristic is also known to generate as output non-objective approximations 
when input syntax, phrasing, or dialect incorporates concepts alien or 
unfamiliar to (or unpalatable for) the heuristic's developer.  Such 
approximations may include the terms "enforce", "effects", "usefulness", 
and "misplaced".  

While some may find the KF transform of the specific inputs here mentioned 
adequate to their needs, the discerning reader is advised that considerably 
more subtle and complex translations are available from other sources. 

:-)  <- This is a *real* smiley.  No, really, it is.  I think we *need*
        some real smileys.  We seem to have lost track of the notion
        that we are *friends* and *fellow-riders*, some of long and 
        mutually-valued acquaintance.

Uh, I gotta go now.  Chuck's salvo may already be on its way. 
Duck 'n Cover! 

:-)
Chuck Rogers
car377@druhi.att.com
KotSBS  #0003
From: duane@thismoment.Corp.Sun.COM (Duane Day)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:36:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thismoment.corp.sun.com

In article <1992Jul21.155801.4683@wpi.WPI.EDU> mick@maxine.wpi.edu (Ravi Narayan) writes:
>Somewhere, Sometime, Thus Spake weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl):
>:- Who are all of you guys telling US what we should be able to handle?

>	i do not know about the others, but i am someone who would
>	like h-d riders to stick to rec.moto.

And who apparently intends to do what he can to impose that desire on them
by actively working to prevent the establishment of the forum they actually
want.

>	put up with it or get out is what *you* say. 

Yeah - all you say is "put up with it."  You don't even want to leave them 
the option to get out!

>       what i say is
>	ignore the extreme, rare, crappy flames, get a sense of humour,
>	some pride in you machine *AND* stay in rec.moto.

And this is an example of how you propose to make Harley riders want to 
"stick to rec.moto", right?  Trivialize their concerns, question their 
pride and their sense of humor, lock all the exits and swallow the key.