From: mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus)
Subject: Re: _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson
Organization: Homebrew Virtual Reality Labs
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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 00:54:19 GMT

Gerry Palo (gpalo@digi.lonestar.org) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan02.042224.5134@jcnpc.cmhnet.org> mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mik
e A. McAngus) writes:
: >Thomas Price (tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu) wrote:
: >: >Some quotes from Larry Stammer, ``Not the Stuff of Sermons'', Los
: >: >Angeles Times Book Review, Sunday, December 20, 1992, pp. 2,4. The
: >: >article is a review of the book _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson (W.W.
: >: >Norton: $22.95; 256 pp.).
: >
: >[all except the following deleted]
: >
: >: >   "+ Jesus' prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane, asking God to spare
: >: >      him from the cup of death but nonetheless bowing to God's will,
: >: >      is a literary creation. If Jesus prayed while his disciples
: >: >      slept, who jotted down a transcript of the conversation?"
: >:
: >: An alternative explanation is divine inspiration, which is supposedly the
: >: method of composition of the book. Consequently, this observation is
: >: not independently significant: it is subordinate to the result of inquiry
: >: about inspiration, and can add nothing nor take anything away from
: >: that debate.
: >
: >Ah yes, devine inspiration.  The method where people can expound with author
ity
: >concerning events about which they know nothing.  The NT is full of them.
: >--
: >Mike McAngus                    |You are a fluke of the Universe.  You have
no
: >mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org            |right to be here, and whether you can hear
it
: >The Truth is still the Truth    |or not the Universe is laughing behind your

: >Even if you choose to ignore it.|back.  -- National Lampoon, Deteriorata
:
: Instead of "divine inspiration", consider the possibility of supersensible
: or clairvoyant vision.  The question then becomes, not whether it was possibl
e
: for the event to have been observed, but rather the purity and veracity of
: both the experience and the account of it.  John speaks of this kind of
: experience directly, as being "in the spirit". when the visions of the
: Apocalypse were revealed to him.  He then had to write them down in
: words.

Until you demonstrate that "supersensible or clairvoyant vision" is a real 
phenomenon, it all sounds like superstitious mumbo-jumbo to me.

:
: Add to this the possibility that Christ himself related the events of
: Gethsemane to the disciples after the resurrection.  He, after all, was
: awake.   He appeared to the disciples and taught them many things for forty
: days.  The Gospels never claimed to record everything that he said and
: did, and John even indicates that if it were all written down the world
: would not be big enough for all the books that would have to be written.
: The Gospels never claim to be a compendium of all knowledge about Christ,
: nor do they attempt to be self proving.

Assuming you buy the idea that JC actually existed and actually rose from the 
dead.

:
: The point is that there are other alternatives to the two
: presented by Wilson - either a physical eyewitness testimony or a
: literary fabrication.  Unfortunately, both skeptics and fundamentalists
: have put themselves into materialistic straitjackets in trying to
: imagine how these things could be.

Why would the idea of fabrication put one into a "materialistic straitjacket"?

:
: In this endless debate about the inspiration of the Bible, inspiration
: suffers at the outset from a conception of it that is narrow and
: materialistic.  First, it is imagined that inspiration is some kind
: of stenographic dictation where a voice from heaven tells the
: prophet or evangelist word for word what to write down.  Second,
: inspiration has become too tightly coupled with the concept of
: letter for letter inerrancy.

Hey, the wholey bable is "the word of god".

:
: At least it should be considered that there are many different
: states of consciousness, both above and below that which we call
: everyday waking consciousness. To reduce the possibilities to our
: own modern everyday experience is to put blinders on and limit
: the possibilities for new understanding.

Until someone demonstrates that other "states of conciousness" actually reflect
reality, I will go with that reality that is observable.

:
: Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
-- 
Mike McAngus                    |You are a fluke of the Universe.  You have no 
mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org            |right to be here, and whether you can hear it
The Truth is still the Truth    |or not the Universe is laughing behind your 
Even if you choose to ignore it.|back.  -- National Lampoon, Deteriorata
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