From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa)
Subject: Re: AIDS and all that jazz
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:38:19 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <101465@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:




>>					       You are saying for a whole
>>decade the disease was present among the African population with no effect
>>whatsoever.

>You keep making up completely phoney versions of what I said.  Death is
>death, it's certainly an effect.  It just didn't occur in epidemiologically
>noticeable amounts until the 70s.

So since you are the expert on African culture and way of life please tell
us how and in what way did changes (if any) in african culture caused the
epidemic.  Are you saying one day Africans just decided to change
thousands of years of tradition and started having mass orgies???

I also said in an earlier posting of mine that Africans named the disease
called Aids before the term AIDS was applied to the symptoms (in about the
early eighties to my knowledge) in and around Eastern Africa.  Africans are
not stupid and if this disease was present a long time ago there would have
been a name for it from long before.

>>>>2) How does a disease that is transmitted mainly by sexual contact get
>>>>from a herosexual community into a homosexual one.?????????????


>Yes, you were.  You were trying to prove certain origin theories were
>impossible, because it would not spread past the initial victims.

This I did prove.  So you are acknowledging that I am correct that your
theories are wrong. >>

>>Back to his argument of SPREADING AIDS.  He leaves the argument about who
>>originated it and jumps to some tihng else.

>Perhaps I misunderstood you, in which case I apologize.  You've repeatedly
>said homosexuality is "virtually nonexistent", and in one article you
>wrote <193@blue.cis.pitt.edu>:

I would like everyone to take note.  He quotes Makala (Better known a Paul
M Mweene, who I agree with often) and says I said it.  Makala is posting
from Pittsburg I am quite far from there.  Your attempt at covert
plagerisim, total lying and outright falsification has ben uncovered.
I wonder if this is how you conduct your academic life at U Penn.  I am
sure your professors would be very interested to learn about this.  Or are
you going to say ALL BLACK PEOPLE LOOK ALIKE ANYWAY and expose the racist
that you are.
You have now lost ALL credibility in my mind and I shall stop arguing
with a person who so blatantly dishonest.  I shall not post again on this
topic after such low, underhanded and falsehearted tactics.

  >|Oh, he was
def`initely lying. He began by saying that
Drunken >|Africans went around shagging monkeys. Now every one knows that
>|Africans do not indulge in any sort of sodomy or bestiality, [...]

>"Sodomy" refers to either homosexuality or to bestiality.  Considering
>that you explicitly mentioned the latter, I assumed you meant the former.

>And in a previous article <1992Dec3.183031.5658@panix.com>, you wrote:
>|Or is it back to that lone African Homosexual WAITING FOR THE
>|ARRIVAL HIS SAILOR LOVERBOY FROM ACROSS THE OCEAN.

NOW HE CORRECTLY QUOTES ME TO TRY AND COVER HIS flagrant insincerity.


>>The homosexual community is nearly nonexistant today.  IN THE FIFTIES I
>>guess it was infetisimal to the point of being an irelevant factor.  The
>>homosexual community in Africa is mainly there to service the gay
>>tourists, not fellow Africans.  NO AFRICAN LANGUAGE EVEN HAS A TERM FOR
>>THE ACT.

>Sure they do.  The same as the heterosexual term.  The only reason English
>has words like "homosexuality" or "heterosexuality" for the two notions
>is because doctors in the 1800s discovered homosexuality and needed a
>clinical term to describe it.

Mr. wiener the African Language expert has spoken.  He who has never set
foot on African soil and I bet does not even speak one African language
even poorley, states he knows what he is talking about.
not condone the act in any form so at a time
Do you even speak anyother language apart from Enlish because if you did
you would NEVER compare terms in different languages.
Anyway a LIAR and PLAGIARIST like yourself will SAY ANYTHING to prove
yourself correct.


>>people of yours.  You say you have never even been to Africa yet you talk
>>about aspects of the culture as if you are an authority.  All your guesses
>>(because that is what they are guesses) about African life and culture are
>>sadly mistaken and WRONG.

>>>>Wiener I have posed hundreds of questions and I ask everyone to read my
>>>>articles to see if he has answered one without trying to pull the wool
>>>>over your eyes.

I said this before and today he has reveiled his true nature.

>>>>Wiener said Africans started AIDS,

> For all I know, the
>disease spread to humans when our Manchester sailor boy deep mooched a
>monkey in Zaire in the mid-50s, and then spread it to prostitutes before
>coming back to England to die in 1959.

HERE HE ADMITTS HIS ERRORS AND PUTS FORWARD THE MOST PLAUSIBLE THEORY

>Since you are flaming me regarding my supposed ignorance of Africa, I'm
>going to pounce on every single mistake you make.  If you want to stick
>to the argument, be my guest, and quit bringing up sidelines.

THE ONLY ARGUMENT A DECEIVER CAN USE IS TO ACCUSE FALSELY LIKE WIENER DOES.

>>>Not a tenth as moronic as claiming that someone who finds the evidence
>>>points towards an African origin of AIDS is Afriphobic.

>>DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.  I HAVE NEVER CALLED ANYONE AFRIPHOBIC.

>Huh?  You've been calling me the Ayatollah of Afriphobia for a bit now.

MAKALA called you AFRICPHOBIC NOT I.  AGAIN YOU HAVE SHOWN YOUR
DISHONESTY.  Your lies and plagerisim are so shocking I hope someone from
U Penn reads your article and lets your proffessors know.  I think you
need to see a psychaitrist fro your problems.  I agree with Makala YOU ARE
AFRIPHOBIC.  There now I have said it you can quote me although I will
Ignore all posts by you from now on.  
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO RANT AND RAVE ABOUT YOUR THEORIES.  YOU HAVE BEEN
EXPOSED FRO THE SICK LIAR AND DECEIVER AND RACIST THAT YOU ARE.  I SHALL
NOT STOOP TO ARGUING WITH SUCH A PERSON AS YOUSELF.

>>And I have yet to read of your irrefuteable evidence that the origin of
>>AIDS was Africa,

>I never claimed there was such.  

>>>>Stick to your story.  Answer ALL the questions I asked in my previous
>>>>articles.

>>>I stick to the facts, not my story.

>>I guess you CHANGE your story to suit whatever facts you happen to be
>>looking at at the time.

>No, I don't have "a story" to stick to. 

>>Here wiener in HIS OWN WORDS tells us how he argues and why.  Whenever his
>>arguments are crushed

>You haven't crushed a single argument of mine.

I take it back.  I cannot crush the aruments of a liar.  I DONT EVEN KNOW
THAT THE ARGUMENTS ARE YOURS.

>>>>I said before, that the chance you would get struck by lightening and a
>>>>Metior hitting the earth are pretty slim but both incidents have happened.

>>>Indeed.  Similarly, the odds of certain viruses mutating lethally are
>>>pretty slim, but it has happened.

>>>> Hitting the lotto is even slimmer but wiener claims mutation would not
>>>>occur in over one million years.

>>>You're speaking lies again.  Mutation occurs all the time, and I've
>>>never said otherwise.

>>First you say mutating is slim then you say mutating occurs all the time.

>First I said _certain lethal particulars_ have slim odds.  Then I said
>that mutation occurs all the time.  No contradiction.

MUTATION IS MUTATION, OR ARE YOU SAYING SOME MUTATIONS ARE SUPERIOR TO
OTHERS ????????.

>>  Africans have lived in Africa for at least one million years as humans. 
>>Eating monkeys (even once a week) over ONE MILLION YEARS and NEVER
>>HAVING A MUTATION CAUSING HIV IS A STATISTICAL IMMPOSIBILITY

>Not at all.  Any particular mutation is unlikely, but mutations occur
>all the time.

MORE LIES TO CLOUD THE FACTS

>>>>Thisis another of the many questions he has refused to answer.  I would
>>>>like him to name one social island in Africa, Asia or the Americas,
>>>>past or present.  I said no people can live in total isolation
>>>>without contact.
>>
>>>I never denied contact or asserted total isolation.  Just enough isolation
>>>to keep the virus from spreading.

>>So these people who lived with AIDS had contact with other Africans and
>>NEVER passed on the disease.

>I never said NEVER.  They just didn't pass on the disease _at first_.

>>			       As I said before wiener knows nothing
>>about African culture or behaviour.

>>				      wiener you know nothing about
>>the customs governing relationships between societies in general and
>>people in particular (in Africa)

>Demonstrate it.

I WOULD NEED A BOOK WORTH TIME AND SPACE TO EXPLAIN ANY CULTURE TO ANYONE.
 If you don't believe me as any other African.  Ask Makala you like to
quote him and say it is me so ask him if I am lying abou how Africans
behave, live and interact.
 >>	

		  and admit you have NOT EVEN
SET >>FOOT ON AFRICAN SOIL and yet make statements like the one above.


>>I think you need to take the blinkers off your eyes and get a WELL
>>ROUNDED EDUCATION.

>I think your education should start with learning to read.

 I can read but I HAVE NEVER BEEN A PLAGERIST UNLIKE YOU

>>>No, I have never been to Africa.  What of it?

>>From your comments I would say your ignorance comes shining through.


>>>>		        He claims there are isolated villages where
>>>>everyone is HIV+.  Where??? Where??? Where????  give the town, name
>>>>the country, GIVE THE F***KING PROOF.

>>>In the Rakai district of Uganda.  Very sad, and no amount of obscenity
>>>or disbelief on your part is going to help them.

>>I know Uganda VERY VERY WELL and you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING
>>ABOUT.  Rakai district is NOT isolated.  It is on the main commercial
>>route from Zaire to the Kenyan coast.

>And there are isolated villages within it.  You can find isolated areas
>in New Jersey if you try.

New Jersey IS NOT  Rakai district YOU MAY HAVE BEEN TO MANY PARTS OF NEW
JERSEY SO YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ISOLATION THERE BUT BY YOUR OWN ADMITTANCE
YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA SO DON'T MAKE STATEMENTS YOU KNOW ABSOLUTLY
NOTHING ABOUT.  Oh I forgot you love to lie.!!!
   
  I think you shaould at least read
>>something about Africa since you have not gone there BEFORE you state such
>>utter crap.

>I've read about half a dozen books about Africa and African history.
>Most recently, Sanford Ungar AFRICA.

THE FAMED ARMCHAIR EXPERT SHOWS HIMSELF.  WELL NOW I AM SURE YOU ARE GOING
TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT AFRICA ?  Sice you lie so blatantly I wonder if you
realy read what you say you have.

>>>>I am sick and tired of posing questions to a fool who chooses to ignore
>>>>them OR chooses to confuse the issues with the wrong data.

>>>You are more than welcome to point out where I'm a fool, and where I've
>>>ignored your questions, or where I've abused data.  You keep saying it,
>>>but you haven't done anything more than mouth off.

TODAY  I HAVE PROVED WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG AND I SHALL POST NO
MORE ON THIS TOPIC BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN VINDICATED.


>>I think you should open your eyes and look around you.  Your presuption
>>that because you study biology makes you the expert on the origin of aids
>>is wrong and this is what you fail to accept.


>>					        Your prjudice on this
>>matter has come through loud and clear.  Your theories CANNOT fit the
>>facts ON THE GROUND.

>-- 
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
THIS MAN IS A CHEAT, A LIAR, A RACIST A PLAGIARIST AND MUCH MORE.  THIS
HAS BEEN SHOWN BY HIS OWN FALSHEARTEDNESS.  IF YOU LOOK AT ONE OF THE
ARTICLES MAKALA WROTE HE EVEN ACUSED MAKALA OF SAYING SOMETHING I WROTE.
I WILL NOT STOOP TO ARGUING WITH A PERSON OF SUCH LOW MORAL FIBERS LEST I
BE PUT IN HIS CATEGORY

THIS SHALL BE MY LAST POST ON THIS SUBJECT WITH WIENER.  HE CAN RANT AND
RAVE AS MUCH AS HE LIKES AND I SHALL NOT RESPOND FOR HE HAS SHOWN HIS TRUE
IDENTITY, A WOLF TRYING TO MASQUERADE AS A SHEEP.

AIDS DID NOT SART IN AFRICA, THIS I HAVE PROVED TO MY SATISFACTION BEYOND
ALL REASONABLE DOUBT AND WITHOUT RESORTING TO LIES.

Kiggundu.

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american