From: rvkl60@email.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: Motorola Inc, Austin, Texas
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:22:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.224257.23876@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
>In article <1ikijvINNkpi@transfer.stratus.com>, cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com (R. Craig Dodson) writes:
>|> >Misc Saturn vs. Honda stuff deleted . . .
>|> 
>|> 
>|> > A one or two year life time *proves* nothing.  Wait until they've been around
>|> > for 10 years like the Accord, and we'll see what they prove.
>|> 
>|> It proves that they are at least on the right track. I'm not going to drop  
>|> names, but there are many cars that have had problems from the moment they
>|> hit the showroom floor. 
>
>Granted, but just because GM can finally build a car that doesn't fall apart
>when it hits the pavement does not mean they are as good as Honda.  It just
>means they are not as bad as they used to be.

And Hondas stay together forever?  Yeah, right.  I look at friends' and
family's Hondas for evidence.  My sister's 1985 Accord rattles like
a claptrap, has fabric disintegrating all over, has plastic parts breaking
in several places or deteriorating (recently, the glove box lock assembly
broke; it was a plastic mount, and to properly repair it requires *a new
dashboard*!!).  A friend's 1984 Accord looks like a rolling wreck (paint
was shot 3 years ago, rusting in several places, fabric in shreds, rattles
and creaks all over, plastic is gone or broken everywhere), and my mom's 
1986 Prelude also rattles like a claptrap, not to mention has trashed 2 
sets of rotors, due to warping, in only 60K of usage, and has had a CV
joint go out recently.  In the meantime, I owned a 1987 Grand Am that 
had one bulb burn out in 60K of usage, along with a $40 set of shocks, 
a 76 Pontiac that needed a clutch and a water pump during it's 130K of 
usage, and a brother with a 90 Grand Prix that only had 1 fuse blow so
far (and nothing ever went wrong again).  As for my Saturn SC, nothing 
has gone wrong mechanically in 1 year of ownership.  I only have had 
constant problems with a paint repair, from an aftermarket shop, that 
was done to repair some vandalism (some jerk keyed my car).  The Saturn
OEM paint looks great and hasn't chipped; the aftermarket paint has had
problems, though.  I cannot attribute that to Saturn.

If this is examples of GM workmanship, I'll take it any day over what
I've seen these supposed "superior" Hondas have.

>|> > |> But I like my Saturn (SL2) because it's *fun to drive* - handling,  
>|> > |> acceleration, braking, steering feel, lateral seat support all combine
>|> > |> to make the Saturn infintely more exciting that the "please everyone"
>|> > |> Accord and Civic "blandmobiles".
>|> > 
>|> > I don't know about the SL2, but the 2 door model is pathetic when it comes
>|> > to handling, acceleration, braking and steering feel.  Up here it Canada they
>|> > sell for $15,000 + options, which is the same price as an Eagle Talon, Isuzu
>|> > Impulse, Acura Integra and MX-3, all which easily out handle and perform it - 
>|> > no contest (check ANY magazine and drive them).
>|> 
>|> Bzzt. Thanks for playing pocket-rocket trivia. We have some lovely parting
>|> gifts for you . . .
>|> 
>|> Pathetic handling acceleration and braking ? Are you kidding ?  I'll give you
>|> the fact that the Talon (in turbo awd form) would make an SC look silly, but
>|> at least down here it's a few more $1000's for one. As for the Integra,
>|> I regularly "rat race" a friend with a '90 RS and I have *no* trouble
>|> out accelerating, out braking and *way* out handling him. The MX-3 ?
>|> Sorry, it can't even break into the 8's in 0-60 (R&T 9.3 sec), compared to the
>|> SC's 8.6.  And the Impulse ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You think the Saturn has
>|> a noisy engine ? 
>
>My non-turbo and non-awd Talon will also make you look silly, as will the Impulse
>(I own/owned both and blew away many many Saturns).  The MX-3 and Integra are just
>as fast (at least according to my magazines) and easily outhandle the Saturn.

It could also be that you're a superior driver, or the other guy had an
automatic vs. a manual.  That does make some difference.

>What you have there, my friend, is a nice slow econo with 2 doors - nothing more.

I don't pretend that my SC is as fast as a turbo Diamond-Star triplet.  It
is as fast as the non-turbo car, and I've also dusted a friend in a 1990
Integra GS with ease from 0-50.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Integra caught
up above 60 or so, but for my purposes, I don't care.  The car launches off
the line wonderfully and passes with ease thank you very much.  As for braking,
my SC has the all disc brakes and ABS, and it stops too fast sometimes (I've had
several close calls at being rear ended several).  All reports I've read say
the car stops *fast* with this set-up.

As for the MX-3, every magazine I have (C/R, C/D, M/T) say my SC is faster,
not by much, but faster.  As for outhandling the SC, I find no published
data to support you.  All reports I've read, in the magazines above, say
the cars are roughly equal or the Saturn comes out on top.

I've never driven the Diamond-Star cars myself, nor the MX-3.  I have
driven several Hondas, a few BMWs, a Miata extensively, some larger
GM cars, and to be honest, driving my Saturn is the most satisfying of
the lot.  It doesn't have the "impressiveness" of the BMW, but it feels
better behind the wheel (better ergonomics perhaps).  It doesn't rattle
and buzz like the Hondas I've driven, and has a gutsier low-end torque
feel, not to mention it feels more solid to me.  It doesn't rattle your
teeth out like the Miata, but it has a nice, precise steering feel.  It
doesn't have the quietness of the big GM metal, but it does have that
great off the line torque of it's bigger bretheren.  It also is a fun
all around car to drive, and it looks great to boot.  None of that
amorphous, bland styling so many Japanese imports have these days.

In maintenance and insurance, I win that contest easily over these imports.  
I'm happy with my car, and that's what matters to me.  According to Mr. J.D.
Powers' firm, Saturn owners are much happier with their cars than Honda or 
Acura or Mazda owners.  Isn't that what really matters after all?

Tom Mathes                                e-mail : rvkl60@email.sps.mot.com
Motorola Inc. / MOS Memory Products Div.  phone  : (512) 928-7627
Austin, Texas