From: radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:41:19 GMT

locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher) writes:
> radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky) writes:
>> drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
>>> radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky) writes:
>>>> My point, however, is: IF Voodoo hexes are for real it's just as
>>>> possible for Sagan to get hexed as it is for him to die from AIDS.
>>> 
>>> Interesting theory.  What do you mean by "for real?"
>>
>> I mean real.  Gravity is real, anti-gravity is not (but the concept is 
>> real).
> 
> This is ridiculous.  You have completely ignored the possibility that
> a voodoo "hex" is merely a psychological phenomenon which only effects
> those who believe in it.

Actually, I didn't.  I was simply defining what I meant by "for real",
like Drake asked.  (You seemed to have overlooked my use of the word "if").
If we're going to say possession is a psychological phenomena, there
are two schools of thought I know of:

1) that it's a form of brainwashing, induced by proper manipulation of the
senses, and by manipulating the ideas that go into a person's head.

2) that it's a mental disease, (perhaps a physical defect in the brain)
such as MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder), or schizophrenia.

Admittedly, there's some overlap between the two, for example, I
believe, if you put a person through a succession of traumatic
experiences while at the same time depriving them of sleep and reducing
their blood-sugar to practically nothing, you can induce epileptic
seizures, which indicates a physical change in that person's brain's
temporal lobes.

Maybe I should add a third, which seems to be what you think:

3) It's all a placebo.

> My Vietnamese roomate believes that too much ginseang root will make
> him impotent(!).  I am willing to bet that it does have that effect on
> him in large doses but the same substance has quite the opposite effect
> on me (unfortunately.  The stuff is so useful for its other benefits).
> So what is the deal here?  Does it make you impotent or not?

I don't know!  (That's my answer to most things, in case you haven't
noticed).  (Isn't ginseng real expensive, anyway?)

> He also believes that the juice of a pig's
> heart has all kinds of tonic properties & it seems to work on him.

Where on earth does he get "the juice of a pig's heart"??  I mean, you
don't just walk into Safeway and see "Pig Heart Juice" on the shelf.

(You have an interesting roommate, what else does he believe?)

> I doubt very much that it would have any noticable effects on me, as I
> do not subscribe to this belief.

I.e. you think it's a placebo (and not "for real").

>>>>>> Oh ye of little faith! If deomic possession is for real, again,
>>>>>> absolutely YES.
>>> 
>>> What meaning, again, do you assign to "for real?"
>>
>> I mean real.  Gravity is real, anti-gravity is not (but the concept is
>> real).  (You asked twice).
> 
> As before, demonic posession could very well be a subjective psychological
> phenomenon. If this were the case, belief, conscious or unconscious, would
> be THE important factor in demonic posession...

That could be.  In which case, all you have to do to get possessed -- is
believe you're possessed.  Maybe I should try this experimentally.
Anybody want to convince me I'm possessed?

(Belief only goes so far.  If I jump off a 50 story building, it doesn't
matter how much I believe I can fly).

>> Techniques such as ouija boards and automatic writing invite "someone
>> else" to control your body.  These might lead to possession, if you're
>> unable to get this entity back out.  It's like, asking someone to drive
>> your car for a while, but not being able to get them out of the
>> driver's seat when you want it back.  This is the only means of possession
>> I've read about.  If anybody knows of others, please post.
> 
> Astrology? Reading of Occult books, such as the "Necronomicon"
> (chuckle).  Numerology. Tarot cards. Automatic writing. Ceremonial
> magick. Wicca. Role playing games. Going into non-xtain churches.
> Practice of hinduism. listening to various types of music (Not just
> heavy metal either; the blues were considered "satanic" for example).
> Yoga.

Gosh, I guess I was just ignorant and naive and didn't know about all the
evil (smirk, smirk) in the world!!

> I could go on & on... Basically anything the church fathers (ever
> notice how they are always fathers?) do not like & see as a threat to
> their authority is an automatic demonic threat...

Now =that= I can believe.

>> If we believe in life after death, the possesser could be a deceased
>> person.  The spiritual realm could also be inhabited by entities that
>> never incarnate, such as angels or demons, who could try to possess
>> people.
> 
> Booga Booga!

Don't Booga Booga me! Okay, so there could be no spiritual realm!
Someday you'll be dead (yo, yo, yo) and you'll know all about it.
Boom Chugga Wugga Lugga to you!

>> I say it's a "possibility" because, having never been possessed myself,
>> I can't say from personal experience that any of this is true, or is
>> not true.  If anyone has personal experiences, please post.
> 
> Yah, I would really get a kick out of that. I promise not to flame ya 
> either.

Me too.  

Besides, I'm sure we have people here who practice astrology,
numerology, magick, wicca, hinduism, automatic writing, and yoga, have
read the Necronomicon, use Tarot cards and ouija boards, play role
playing games, go to non-xian churches, listen to heavy metal, etc,
etc.  Hasn't anybody gotten possessed?

Wayne, Das Anxious Hundchen.

Newsgroups: alt.satanism