From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Sledgehammer Tactics
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:16:58 GMT


Elya Kapelyan has already corrected most of your errors in another
posting, though you sent it elsewhere with your Followup: line.


In article <1227@tecsun1.etl.army.mil> riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.011856.26074@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>Actually, recent information indicates that the Patriots may not have 
>>intercepted a single Scud.  Talk about fog of war!
>
>	Bullshit. I saw a Patriot intercept a Scud ON CNN during Desert
>Storm, for crying out loud !!

No, these were Patriots, self-destructing.  They were designed to
intercept aircraft, not missiles, but were pressed into service here.
Exploding when approaching the target is how they do their work.  It
is no wonder that they are very poorly suited to situations over
populated areas, which is precisely how they were used in the Gulf.

Further, you may also have noticed on CNN several casings of SCUD
missiles that actually arrived.  Some were almost complete and intact.
In the end, the best thing about it was that the SCUDS were about as
bad as the Patriots, though perhaps cheaper.

>>Firstly, the IDF has something simlilar the E2-C (Hawkye?).  Secondly,
>>had the Bush administration not been terrified of the Arab states that
>>it was defending, it might have allowed Israel to join in Desert Storm,
>>in which case the same AWACS that co-ordinated Saudi fighters with 
>>Americans could've done the same with Israeli fighters.  The decision
>>to exclude Israel was a political decision, not a military decision.
>
>	Noted. 
>
>	1. Israel does not conduct combined military exercises with the US
>	military.
>
>	2. To my knowledge, the US has never conducted any military operation
>	together with Israel, outside the auspices of the UN peacekeeping
>	forces in the Sinai and the Golan Heights/Lebanon.

Has the US conducted more military exercises in the past with Saudi
Arabia than with Israel?  Why should the Israelis be such poor
partners, as compared, say, to the Saudis?

>	3. I don't know if Israel KNOWS HOW to conduct a cooperative
>	military operation with an ally.

I don't know if Israel WANTS to cooperate with allies.  With all due
respect, when the going gets tough, the British, French and Americans
run for it.  The Israelis can only run a few miles before they start
splashing in the warm waters of the Mediteranean.  

You will note that in all previous engagements, Israel has done the
job all by itself, usually against incredible odds.  By contrast, the
Kuwaitis lost their whole country in a single day, and the proud
Saudis on the same day "gave permission" for the infidel troops to
defend Holy Moslem Soil.

>>They would've flown lower and recognized the decoys.  The Americans blew
>>up a lot of decoys.  Israeli air tactics, as demonstrated in the attack 
>>on the Osirak nuclear reactor, are characterized by precision, not 
>>by the sledgehammer approaches regularly utilized by Americans.  While
>>sledgehammers make lots of sparks fly and sure do smash things up,
>>they often miss the point.
>
>	This is total hogwash. Remember the "command bunker" we hit by
>mistake ? Remember General Schwarzkopf describing how we sealed off the flow
>of oil into the Persian Gulf ? One shot, one hit, one kill.

I could accept your claim of "One shot, one hit, one kill" if Saddam
had been knocked off and the rest of the neighborhood left alone.
However, in the classical American style, we seemed to hit everything
else, instead.  Precision bombing of every point on the countryside is
still a "Sledgehammer Approach", even if it doesn't involve nukes.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.