HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: life
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:54:32 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Nov19.111251.18689@ennews.eas.asu.edu> guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal ) writes:

>
>Anlasilan bu gece beyfendinin tatli cani satasmak istemis. Eee, "Islamiyet
>ugruna yalan soylemek mubahtir", haydi bakalim diger cyborglar, biraderinizin
>imdadina yetisin, yalanini ortun su mucahidin. 
>
>Yazmadiklarimdan dolayi "suclanacagim" ve beyfendiler hala "bilimsel cevap"
>isteyecekler. Kustahlik ruhlariniza islemis. Nerede su "Islamin yuce ahlaki",
>haa pardon, yalancilik, sahtekarlik Islamiyete uygundu di mi, eger "Islamiyet"
>savunulacaksa. 
>
>Selim Guncer

Islam oldugunu soyleyen bazi sapiklar yukaridakileri uydurdugunda
herhalde cahilliklerindendi.  Bu konuda -savas esnasinda dusmana
uygulanacak hile ve olum tehdidi altinda Yaradani inkar etme disinda
yalan ve hileye cevaz veren- deliliniz nedir?

Eger Kur'an ve sahih hadislerden bir delil getiremiyorsaniz lutfen
bu gibi tahkir edici suclamalarda bulunmayin.  "Yalancinin mumu
yatsiya kadar yanar" diyen Musluman Turk toplumuna bu gibi
haksiz suclamalari herhalde reva gormuyorsunuzdur. 

Ustune ustluk firsattan istifade ederek Islama ve Muslumanlara karsi  
kullandiginiz agir dil de sizin kayagillerden oldugunuzu gosteriyor.
Yoksa yaniliyor muyum?  Bu arada adi Kaya olup ayni duyguyu
paylasmayan KARDESlerin gunahini almamak icin kendim dahil diger
kardeslere bu tanimlamayi bundan sonra kullanmamayi tavsiye ederim.  Cahil,
kafir, vs. Islami literaturde mevcut, bunlarla telafi etsek yeterlidir
herhalde.

Dogrular Hak'ka yanlislar bana aittir.

Hamid
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:47:32 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92) writes:

|professor from one of the universities in Istanbul. He told me that there was
|a poll around 1905 about literacy rate (carried out by a French
|organization). Results were %95 percent of the population were able to
|read. He was not sure about the number for the people who can read and
|write. This was quite reasonable because everbody was learning how to
|read Qur'an. People were using almost the same letters of Qur'an in
|their life. Even today I think the rate of the people who can read 
|Qur'an is much higher than the people who can read Latin scripts.
|I don't know if any study done on this.

-If you believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. It has
-an excellent view of the Bosporus and the Golden Horn.

-Let me get this straight:

-1. You believe that 95% of the people in the Ottoman Empire could
-read in 1905? That would make it probably the highest literacy
-rate in the world. Quite an achievement. I'd like to see more
-documentation on this. Where was this poll conducted? I find the
-notion of a reliable poll covering the Ottoman Empire at that time
-even more incredible. The dearth of statistical information about
-the Ottoman Empire has been a problem for a lot of social
-scientists. Perhaps your 'professor' in Istanbul should publish
-this information and become famous. 

I believe that the rate of the people who can read Qur'an in Ottoman Empire
was as higher as the figure the professor gave me.
Ottoman Empire had carried out Islam flag. In such a state, most of the
people would, of course, know how to read Qur'an. Even today go to the
most parts of Turkiye, you will find a lot of persons (especially at the
ages of 40 and up) who can read Qur'an but cannot read Latin script
after a series of revolution and prosecution of people who read Qur'an
from the original form (during Ismet Inonu time).

Regards
Beytullah

| 





||
||-- 
||--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
||17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
||INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
||BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
-- 
Inhabited by absurd fears,  they only discuss  the puerilities with which 
every fool is familiar, and dare not, by turning a bold hand to the human 
heart, offer its gigantic idiosyncrasies to our views.     Sade, 'Justine'
Serdar Boztas \\ serdar@fawlty1.eng.monash.edu.au \\ +(61)3-565-5722
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Kaya'ya
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:42:43 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

 
> Nasil ile baslayan soruya cevap verebilmek oldukca basit. 
> Bilimsel olarak verilebilecek bir yanit, bu sorunun cevabi olacak. 
 
> Bilimsel aciklamalarla, NEDEN sorusunu NASIL sorusu haline getirdigimizde
> olay cozuluyor. 
 
Haa, simdi anladim dilindeki hastaliginin nedenini -
Kaya sen bilimle felsefeyi, felsefeyle de Allah'in kitaplarini
ve de ustune ustluk bilimle de Allah'in kitaplarini birbirine
karistiriyorsun. Aslinda bazi inandigini soyleyen kisiler de 
bu senin dustugun karmasaya dustugunden, sen icinden cikilmaz bir
karmasa icinde olduguna sanarak butun sorularini bilimsel
sorulara indirgemeye calisiyorsun. Tabi bu da karmasana
karmasa katiyor.
 
Hatirlarsan, sana Kuran hakkindaki bir sozcugunu sorgulayan
bir tertip sorular gondermistim. Eger bu sorularimi yemeklerden
once birkac kasik yudumlayabilseydin gorecektin ki bu sorularin
hic biri bilimsel sorular degil, fakat seni de beni de tedirgin
eden felsefi sorulardir.
 
Simdi senden bu sorulari nasil bilimsel sorular haline 
getirebilirsin diye bir istekte bulunarak seni loop'a
sokmak istemeden, bu sorulari diger sorulardan ayiran
ne ? diye bu sorulari gozlemeni salik veririm.
Ve bu arada mantik, matematik, felsefe calismanida
salik veririm. 
 
Ogutumu dinlersen dinle, dinlemezsen de, dil senin dilin, dilin
tumuyle felc oldugunda - vay Hakki sen bunlari biliyordun da
niye beni uyarmadin...diye hayiflanma.... 
 
Sana dilindeki hastaliginin bu asamasinda bundan baska
yapabilecegim birsey oldugunu sanmiyorum.
 
Sana hala niye yardim etmeye calistigimin nedenini de bana sorma.
Kim bilir belki de Allah'in sevgili kulusundur.
Hekim iyi olacak hastanin ayagina gelirmis.....

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11798 talk.politics.mideast:22315 talk.politics.soviet:9031 soc.culture.greek:10730 soc.culture.europe:9674 soc.history:9596 soc.culture.soviet:10104
From: suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Subject: Re: TURK ULUSUNUN USLU COCUKLARI !
Reply-To: suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:16:25 GMT

In article <10292323.57830.2287@kcbbs.gen.nz>,
Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas) writes:
> Turk Ulusunun uslu cocuklari !
>  
> Simdi size soruyorum:
>  
> EGEMENLIK ULUS'un mu ?
> yok yoksa
> EGEMENLIK MILLET'in mi?

	EGE deniziyle MENemen daglari arasinda bi yerde olsa gerek.
  
> Haydi gelin 20.yy basinda pisledigimizi 20.yy sonunda temizleyelim !
  
	Yuce islam arap pisligini hristiyan amerikali bilem temizliyemiyor,
	habire ugrasiyor, biz nasil temizleriz. En iyisi allaha havale edelim,
	her zaman oldugu gibi.

Suleyman

> Hakki Kocabas
 
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11572 talk.politics.mideast:22148 talk.politics.soviet:8905 soc.culture.greek:10564 soc.culture.europe:9532 soc.culture.soviet:9936 soc.rights.human:4212 talk.politics.cis:33
From: guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal )
Subject: Yalancilik ne zamandan beri mubah? (was Re: Teoman beyin dikkatine
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:23:23 GMT

In article <9211192341.AA08328@top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, Hasan Yetim <hyetim@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:
> 
> Hayir teoman efendi, biz cok tecrube etmisiz, gulmenize gerek yok.
> Yine tekrar edebilirim edebin asli dindir. Dinsizlerin standard bir
> edep kurali ve anlayisi yoktur. Ya atalarinin dinini takip ederler
> yada herkafadan bir ses cikar. X e gore iyi olan Y ye gore yanlistir.
> Bak belki sana gore asagidaki edepsizliktir ama O.P. gore normal bir
> davranis.
> Example;
>  
> > From: guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal ) writes;
> 
> > Bullshit bir bok biliyorsan yaz, akli sira "cok bilmis" gozukup insanlari
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > kandiracak hergele. 
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Bunlar murekkep yalamis birilerine yakismayacak sozlerdir. Allah bir
> insani din ve imandan mahrum ederse daha efendi davranmasi beklenemez
> ama insanlik iste, umuyoruz.
> 
> saygilar
> 
> hasan
> 
> 

Ozur dilerim ama hic tanimadigim biri sarfetmedigim sozler ve dusunceleri
yazmisim gibi davranip hakaret etmeye calisirsa neyin normal neyin normal 
olmadigina sirf yukaridaki sozlerimle karar veremezsiniz. Kabul, agir bir 
dil kullandim, ama bu ismi herneyse o kisinin hakkimda YALAN soylemesini 
gecerli gormenizi mi gerektiriyor? Birakin bu cifte standardi. 

Tabii bu yazdiklarim genel kabul goren ahlak anlayislari geregi. Islamcilarin
ahlak anlayisi YALAN soylemeyi de, herturlu sahtekarlik yapmayi da
Islamiyet ugruna oldugu surece mubah goruyor. Bu da sizin kabul ettiginiz
carpik ahlak anlayisi - catismalarimizin buyuk kismi da bu yuzden cikmiyor 
mu zaten? Ben kendi ahlak anlayisim geregi karsimdakinden durustluk
beklerim. Eger sozkonusu kisi gibi YALANCILIGI kendi hakki olarak goruyorsa
bu soytarilari insan olarak kabul edemem.

Yazdiklarim "Islamcilara" karsidir. Ikibucuk propaganda kitabi okuyup 
dunyayi kurtarmaya yeltenen zibidilere karsidir. Yoksa LAIKLIGI benimsemis, 
gelecegini kendi eline alan, ileriye bakan demokratik Musluman yiginlarin 
destekcisiyim.


Selim Guncer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: Hasan Yetim <hyetim@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Teoman beyin dikkatine
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:41:39 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


In article <1992Nov17.185427.20264@u.washington.edu> teoman@hardy.u.washington.edu (Teoman Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.172915.6357@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> hyetim@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Hasan Yetim) writes:
>>
>>  
>>
>>Kaya efendi ve ummetine;
>>
>>     Sahsima soylenen hakaretvari sozlere aldirmiyorum, zaten
>>dinsizlerde saygi aranmaz. Saygi ve edebin asli dindir, dini kabul etmeyenin
>
>dinsiz bir insan saygili olamaz mi? coooooook guldurdun beni... :]    


Hayir teoman efendi, biz cok tecrube etmisiz, gulmenize gerek yok.
Yine tekrar edebilirim edebin asli dindir. Dinsizlerin standard bir
edep kurali ve anlayisi yoktur. Ya atalarinin dinini takip ederler
yada herkafadan bir ses cikar. X e gore iyi olan Y ye gore yanlistir.
Bak belki sana gore asagidaki edepsizliktir ama O.P. gore normal bir
davranis.
Example;
 
> From: guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal ) writes;

> Bullshit bir bok biliyorsan yaz, akli sira "cok bilmis" gozukup insanlari
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> kandiracak hergele. 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bunlar murekkep yalamis birilerine yakismayacak sozlerdir. Allah bir
insani din ve imandan mahrum ederse daha efendi davranmasi beklenemez
ama insanlik iste, umuyoruz.

saygilar

hasan


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11738 talk.politics.mideast:22268 soc.culture.greek:10678 soc.culture.europe:9632 soc.history:9544 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9572
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: "Tamtam" Flag
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:50:26 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <Bxstt6.BBG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

>>the modern Greeks
>>are equally unrelated to the ancient Macedonians as the inhabitants of
>>the Republic of Macedonia.

> Have you ever taken a Math class FAT?  Greeks have been living continously
> in Macedonia for thousands of years.  Although it would be incorrect to

Here we go again; more ridicule. Today those "tamtams" boast about being 
the descendants of a great civilization, and the cradle of democracy. 
Howevers there are serious doubts in history for both claims.

First of all, several historians and anthropologists have produced
substantial evidence with respect to any connection between 
present-day Greece and ancient Greece. The prominent German
historian Jacop P. Fallmerayer published a treatise in 1830
and made the assertion that during the Middle Ages slavik
tribes poured into Greece and annihilated the entire Greek
population. Truly, can anyone see any resemblance between 
that beacon of ignorance and the ancient Greeks who created a 
civilization?

As for democracy, in its entire history Greece has never been
a democracy - except for the last 17.5 years. Before 1974 Greece 
was ruled either by military dictators or monarchs. Greece
adopted democracy in 1974 when the ruling military junta
fell as a result of Turkish intervention in Cyprus. In
contrast Turkiye, three short termed military interventions
withstanding, had multi-party democracy since 1950, for
32 years.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: bakd@tet.uni-hannover.de (Birol Akdemir)
Subject: Ah, Istanbul'da olmak
Reply-To: bakd@tet.uni-hannover.de
Organization: Institut f. Theoretische Elektrotechnik, Univ. Hannover
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:35:27 GMT

Merhaba !
Gecen yaz tatilinde gucel bir sarki dinledim.
Sarkici: EMEL
Soz:Melike Demirag
Beyki siz'de beygenirsinis:

Yayimisiz Dunyanin dort bir yanina
Kimisi Kopenhag'da kimisi Paris
Bedenimiz ora burada dolanir amma
Cok hemde cok uzak yerde kalbimiz
--------------------------------------------
Bir alli turna olsam, karli daglari assam
Varsam bizim ellere,kendi gogum de ucsam
----------------------------------------------
Simdi Istanbul'da olmak vardi anasini satayim
pufur pufur bir vapurun yan tarafinda
Koprude balik ekmek yemek
Dolmusa hadi gidelim demek
Ver elini Yeni Kapi, ver elini Bebek,Taraby
Su anda oralarda olmak vardi ya
Simdi Istanbul'da olmak vardi anasini satayim
Bogaz'da kohne bir iskelenin yamacinda
Tabakta kavun peynir,kadehte buz gibi raki
Su anda Istanbul'da olmak vardi
Benim derdim dermanim bilen yok
----------------------------------------------
Yayimisiz Dunyanin dort bir yanina
Kiminin adresi Sidney, Kiminin Hamburg
Yasamaya dort elle sarilmisiz da
Yine de gozlerim dolu, yuregim buruk
Basimi hic bir zaman egmedim amma
yine de yuregim yara icimde bosluk
Minnacik tohum olsam, savrulsam donumlerce
Kis biter bahar gelir acilsam 
----------------------------------------------
Simdi Istanbul'da olmak vardi anasini satayim
pufur pufur bir vapurun yan tarafinda
Su anda Istanbul'da olmak vardi anasini satayim
Yeni Camide misir atmak kuslara
Koprude balik ekmek yemek Dolmusa cek dostum demek
Ver elini Kadikoy, ver elini Kalamis,Moda
Su anda oralarda olmak vardi ya
----------------------------------------------------
Simdi Istanbul'da
Su anda Istanbul'da
Ah Istanbul'da
------------------------------------------------------
Sabret gonul bir gun olur
Bu hasret biter
Cekilen acilar canim
gun olur gecer



---
Birol Akdemir
Adress :
e-mail: bakd@tet.uni-hannover.de


Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: tekman@ecn.purdue.edu (Erkan Tekman)
Subject: Re: Faith, Technology and Power TO clockwork orange
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:55:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.021303.19697@ncsu.edu>, bbabdulk@unity.ncsu.edu (Bilisik
Abdulkadir) writes: 

|> 1. Bati  teknolojiyi dogudan zamaninda hacli seferleri ile calarak kendi
|> tarafina goturmus ve zaman icerisindede bunlari assimile ederek buna yaptiklari
|> reform hareketlerini de katarak pozitif dusunmenin yolunu bulup o zamandan
|> bugunku duruma gelmisler.
|>
|> Bati islam toplumundan neleri calmistir :   

  [description of stolen islamic innovations in science is deleted]

sayilan islam bilim eserleri buyuk olcude eski yunan ve misir uygarliklarinda
gelistirilen yontemlerin devamidir. yani bunlarin ortaya cikarilmasi muslumanlik
sayesinde olmamistir ve de suregiden bir olusumun bir parcasidir.

eger sayilan bilim eserleri ve yontemleri kuranda (ve yalnizca
muslumanlara) mustulanmis ve de herhangi bir baska calismaya dayanmadan tamamen
islami inanisin sonucu olarak ortaya atilmis olsa, ve de kafirler musluman
olmadiklari (ve bu nedenle kendiliklerinden kesfedemeyecekleri) icin bu bilimsel
eserleri zorla ele gecirmis olsa ``calmak'' lafina biraz tebessum etmek mumkun,
fakat bu durumda ancak gulunur, aynen otomatik portakal'in yaptigi gibi.

bati'nin bugunku teknolojisini 7-10 asir once muslumanlardan ``caldiklari''
bilime baglamak en azindan naiflik. 7-10 asir once muslumanlar da ayni bilgilere
sahiptiler, yoksa kafirler bizim bilgileri calarken bilginlerin dusunme ve
ogrenme merkezlerini de hadim mi ettiler ne?

|> Yazimda vermek istedigim mesaj eger istersek once inanacagiz tabi islami
|> yasayarak sonra bununla amel ederek bilimi uretken hale getirerek
|> teknolojileri uretecegiz sonrada bundan olusan maddi manevi birikimleri
|> milletimizle hakca insanca bolusur hale getirecegiz.  Ve sonrada  hakki,  
|> adil yasam seklini dunyaya ogretecegiz.  Dolayisi ilede bizden sonra gelecek
|> cocuklarimiz buralarda ikinci sinif vatandas olarak Ornegin  ARIZONA
|> collerinde surunuyor olmayacak.

bunlari yapmak icin neden illa ki musluman olmak gerekli, o da merak konusu tabii
ki... her neyse simdilik ikinci sinif vatandas olarak mars'a fuze gondermeye
calisan kardeslerin dediklerine inanalim biz, kurtulusumuz onlarin elinde
inseallah!

erkan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11846 talk.politics.mideast:22346 talk.politics.soviet:9047 soc.culture.greek:10769 soc.culture.europe:9705 soc.history:9628
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: A piece of "Gav*0"s broken nose for "wieneramus" of ASALA/SDPA/ARF.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 21:50:57 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <scg.722212446@cs.wisc.edu> Nick Gavrielatos <GUEST2@BROWNVM.brown.edu> writes:

>KDhladh etsi 0a mporw mono na stelnw twra? Mesw remote logins
>allwn nodes?

"Young Turks" said that you moved like you were crazed. But, why did 
you throw up, "Gav*0"? Broken nose? Well, anyway, the Armenian SS unit 
was formed following a directive of Himmler in the beginning of 
December 1944.[1] The Armenian Liaison Staff actively recruited 
volunteers[2] and by February 1945 a cavalry formation of one thousand 
Armenians was integrated into the larger Caucasian Waffen-SS unit. 
The Armenian SS formation was employed last in Klagenfurt.[3] In 
addition to this exclusively Armenian unit, Nazi Armenians also served 
in the thirty eight other SS divisions, one of them even in the elite 
'Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler.'[4]

[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 136-137.
[2] United States National Archives, T-175, Roll 167, 
    pp 2700157/2700158, SS-Headquarters, Amtsgruppe D - Oststelle,
    see 'Documents 3 and 4.'
[3] Georg Tessin, 'Verbaende und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und
    Waffen-SS im zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945,' (Frankfurt am Main
    1965-1980), Volume 14, Armenian Legion/Waffen SS.
[4] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 119.
 
Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: But more than that "minassian"...
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:17:26 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <SUOPANKI.92Nov19174504@stekt7.oulu.fi> suopanki@stekt7.oulu.fi (Heikki T. Suopanki) writes:

+>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:45:09 EST, sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) said:

+>> All reliable Ottoman historians describe how Armenians ruthlessly
+>> exterminated 2.5 million Muslim women, children and elderly people of 
+>> Eastern Anatolia 

+>When I read that passage the only conclusion is that the Muslim men did
+>leave Eastern Anatolia and let the women, children and elderly people die....
+>So Muslim men are cowards?

	Part of the fantasy that the Turkish Ottoman fanatics believe in
involves the idea that every male turk was off at the front facing the
russians.  You have to understand that the complete disintigration of
Enver's army in the east was a stunning humiliation that the imperialists
cannot accept.  So they invented the "stab in the back" in the form of
the armenian revolt to explain it away.  
	The same sort of "reasoning" is used to explain away turkey's
being the one who started the war with Russia.  Multu/Argic will never
do any "historical" articles on how the military trumverate running turkey
in 1914 forced the empire into the war. 


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11732 talk.politics.mideast:22262 talk.politics.soviet:8983 soc.culture.greek:10672 soc.culture.europe:9626 soc.history:9539