HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sieh@panix.com (Lui Sieh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What is Asian ?
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:51:24 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Nov5.135700.2034@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> vallamn@ucbeh.san.uc.edu 
writes:
>Hi !  I am an Indian student who occasionally reads s.c.a.a.  What
>I do not understand is this :  Why do the netters relate the word
>'Asian' with only those ethnic groups of far-eastern nationality ?
>
>Are not Arabs, Iranians, Indians etc. Asians ?  This may be one
>of the reasons why non-oriental(forgive me for being politically
>incorrect) people of Asian origin do not post in this newsgroup.

You have submitted a  very astute observation and question concerning a
recurring theme on s.c.as.am.  IMNSHO (which stands for "in my not so
humble opinion :-)), this phenomenon you're describing is the result
of racial and ethnic subjugation of "Oriental" Asian Americans (aka Far
-Eastern, South Eastern and various mixing and matching) against "non-
Oriental" Asian Americans.

You see,  although Asian Americans are a minority group [sic] in America,
they are not that much better than their "White" brethren.  "Whites" don't
have a monopoly on racist, bigoted, prejudicial behavior.  And, you're
seeing a real live example of this in action.  "Oriental asian americans"
don't really think about "non-oriental asian americans" (ie. Indians) because
they aren't "one of us" and on the pecking order of priorities, it gets lost
in the shuffle.  Everyone behaves this way.  It's an easy dichotomy to see:
If you aren't one of us, you're one of THEM (gasp!).  

That's the break.

>The association of the word 'asian' with 'oriental' is of American
>( read white ) origin, and that does not mean you ( and me ) should
>accept it as what it is, namely a misnomer.  I am not criticizing 
>here, just suggesting.  So don't flame without explanations please.

Yes, 'asian' doesn't mean 'oriental' but it's not necessarily the
fault of "White" suppression.  What I think has occurred here is that
there have been too many Asian Americans whose ethnic backgrounds are
"far eastern" and thus the slant on this newsgroup is toward that perspective.
If all those "non-oriental" Asian Americans were to speak up, things
may change over time.  I believe that the last time this was raised,
the person (Indian American I believe), got bruised pretty badly.
-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: 1992 Election results of Calif Asian Americans
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 21:44:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.184510.14052@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu (Michael T. Itamura) writes:
>	Well the elections are now over and the new Congressional
>delegation from the state of California contains four Asian
>Americans.  Mineta and Matsui both were re-elected to Congress.
>The two newcomers are Jay Kim (R-Parts of LA, Orange, San Bernardino
>Counties) and Mark Takano (D-Riverside). ...

The San Jose Mercury News showed that the number of Asian-Americans
in the House of Representatives increased from 3 to 4.  The number of
Asian-Americans in the Senate remained the same: 2.

I presume that they are all Japanese-Americans with the exception
of Jay Kim.  That's pretty much what I expected.

Perhaps, President-elect Clinton will have the daring to pick a
Japanese-American as the National Science Advisor.  Considering the
severe overrepresentation of Oriental-Americans in the sciences 
and engineering, the non-discriminatory probability of selecting a
Japanese-American should be very high as time progresses.  And it
has been a very long time.

(Note that I'm expressing no opinion on affirmative.  What I'm saying
is that if you continuously conduct the experiment of selecting, with
replacement, a ball out a jar of 3 balls--red, white, and blue, then
the probability of picking a red ball becomes very high after a long
time of not having picked a red ball, assuming a _fair_ experiment of
3 unbiased balls.)

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:25:24 EST
From: <SCW112@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: 1992 Election results of Calif Asian Americans
 <BxDFyx.A08@acsu.buffalo.edu> <yfA=za-@engin.umich.edu>

In article <yfA=za-@engin.umich.edu>, Michael F. Kamprath
<kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> says:
>
>In article <BxDFyx.A08@acsu.buffalo.edu> Danielle T Wei,
>dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu
>writes:
>>In article <1992Nov7.214426.1377@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>
>>>(Note that I'm expressing no opinion on affirmative.  What I'm saying
>>>is that if you continuously conduct the experiment of selecting, with
>>>replacement, a ball out a jar of 3 balls--red, white, and blue, then
>>>the probability of picking a red ball becomes very high after a long
>>>time of not having picked a red ball, assuming a _fair_ experiment of
>>>3 unbiased balls.)
>>
>>No, that's called the Idiot's Probability..
>>The red ball actually has a LOWER chance of being picked, because if
>>it had never been picked before, its would be oppressed by the other balls
>>to its lowly position because of lack of power..
>>
>
>Ha ha ha :-)  Pretty good humor there :-)
>
>Just in case you are all confused as to what is the right answer:  if
>you are replacing the balls, then you odds are equal that you'll get
>the red ball ( 1/3 ) every time you grab for a new one.  If it turns
>out that you aren't getting the red ball that much, well, you've just
>discovered what _probability_ means and you are SOL.

True, but the chances of NOT getting a red ball in all of, say, ten tries is
(2/3):10. I don't feel like figuring out what that is, but it's real small.

Steve Wei

Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10048 soc.culture.bangladesh:5826 soc.culture.indian:36818 soc.culture.pakistan:16597 alt.discrimination:4622
From: dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was:Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:39:03 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Nov12.014658.9144@sarah.albany.edu> ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj) writes:
>
>As I recall, you made several derogatory comments.  One stated that Blacks
>must rely on quotas to get ahead.  If this was not the gist of your message,
>I suggest you clarify.

O.K. you got me here.. I apologize to whomever I may have offended with those
comments.. But perhaps you should also take a peek from my eyes??
It's not easy..

>>What's wrong with the first rule you immoral pig? What happened to the
>>family values?? (another weakpoint of the American culture) :)
>
>The problems is that the requirement has nothing to do with one's ability to 
>perform the functions of the job.  Opinions concerning one's morality in
>such matters are highly irrelevant.

But a culture is based on those "highly irrelevant" moralities..
Is it a "good thing" now that the Americans are letting the fundamental
bases of their culture rot in the name of freedom of speech?

>Yasmin

NW
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10033 soc.culture.bangladesh:5801 soc.culture.indian:36709 soc.culture.pakistan:16564 alt.discrimination:4617
From: IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Gann Matsuda)
Subject: 50th Anniversary of Japanese Amer. Internment
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:14:26 PST

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: sieh@panix.com (Lui Sieh)
Subject: Re: "Asians changing names to help job prospects"
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:51:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <44921@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu 
(John Kawakami) writes:
>In article <1992Oct31.101252.12584@panix.com> sieh@panix.com I wrote:
>>In article <44895@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu 
>>Coming from you, I am completely dumbfounded and astounded by this.  I under-
>>stand you to be person who is rather uncompromising (to me) in terms of 
>>"maintaining" one's ethnicity, supposed or otherwise.  Yet, I am reading here
>>that to alter one's "asian-like" name is a betrayal to one's ethnicity and
>>cultural heritage...*except* when it comes to 1) combat discrimination and
>>racism and 2) economic "survival".
>
>Changing one's name does not combat discrimination!  It supports racism; it
>means that you acknowledge that you are "less equal" than "normal" people.

This is even more baffling.  This thread started by how Asian immigrants in
England were anglicizing their names to improve their job prospects.  Now, 
the major reason(s) given was that this action would help them overcome
discriminatory practices (real or perceived) of prospective employers (ie.
not accept resumes/applications from people who had obvious foreign names).
You said that you supported people who changed their names for this purpose
because if it helps them to get jobs and feed themselves, it's good.

In this article you're saying that this will not combat discrimination but
that it furthers it?  Well, that's the question in a way.  Which is, "Is
getting a job more important that preserving who you are?"

>The crusader against racism will wear his opression like a badge and excel
>in spite of adversity.  She or he will change to fit the system AND force
>the system to change to fit her or him.  But racism isn't the only issue
>people face: some people have kids to feed.  When it comes down to survival,
>I think it is too much to expect everyone to remain "true to the game."  

So, in the balance between "survival" and principles, principles lose out
in your set of priorities, right?  Frankly, I'm not at all convinced that
it is a matter of survival (ie. life and death) but it could very well be
to someone else.

>Think about this.  In another day, you would have been given the name
>Looey Shay upon entry into this country.

Yes, and so what about it?  Why do you think this would seem so terrible?
-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was:Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 14:25:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.060212.12389@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) went on about...
>In article <NAEEM.92Nov10170026@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
>>In article <BxGzp7.IFv@acsu.buffalo.edu> dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu
>>(Danielle T Wei) writes:
>>>  I think the biggest split between the minority groups is "who wants what."
>>>  Most Africans want a "united colored race" stand together against those
>>>  "white slave owner" while most Asians do not care that much, and would much
>>>  rather prefer personal wealth. ...
>>>   		blacks like educational quotas (how else can they get people
>>>   into top schools?) ...
>>>	 Face it: the Democratic party is/will be dominated by the blacks,
>>>   and we will never get anywhere working with them.
>>I hope you will seriously consider entering politics, you have a bright future
>>in the Republican party.
>
>I just want to make 3 points.

[3 points deleted to conserve space.  The general gist is examples of the
 sentiment expressed below.  If I understand the comments, Chinese-CU implies
 a Chinese person who is also culturally Chinese as opposed to, I believe,
 culturally American.]

>(Again, allow me to reiterate that Mr. Wei's comments are typical of 
>Chinese-cu people.  Don't be fooled by the pleasantries on "Chinese-cu 
>Culture Day"
>at your local community center; the real Chinese-cu culture bears _no_
>resemblance that.)

While I am also greatly disturbed by the comments concerning Blacks and the
Democrat party, etc. expressed by Mr. Wei, a similar attack on Chinese
culture is not IMO a good refutation of his arguments.  As long as we feel
the need to generalize and stereotype people, prejudices will remain our
midst.

Please don't attack one culture or people to defend another.  

Yasmin
-- 
**************************************************************************
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *          Clinton/Gore '92          *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            THEY WON !!!            *
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: chandra@cannelloni.cis.ohio-state.edu (B Chandrasekaran)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was: Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:42:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.142536.29862@sarah.albany.edu> ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj) writes:

>While I am also greatly disturbed by the comments concerning Blacks and the
>Democrat party, etc. expressed by Mr. Wei, a similar attack on Chinese
>culture is not IMO a good refutation of his arguments.  As long as we feel
>the need to generalize and stereotype people, prejudices will remain our
>midst.
>
>Please don't attack one culture or people to defend another.  
>

I think there is a widespread misunderstanding that any kind of talk
about "typical" is morally wrong.  It seems to be an empirical question
whether Chinese-Americans (or any other group) harbor more racist
sentiments as a group than other groups.  For example, statistical
studies of racial attitudes may in fact indicate that a given group
harbors more racist notions than some other groups.  This does not
mean that a particular member of that group harbors those views,
but there seems to be nothing wrong in prima facie claims that Chinese
as a group have racist feelings towards blacks.  It might or might not
be true, so the argument should be about whether it is true or not,
not that very raising of such issues is intrinsically wrong.  

The real issue is what to make of such average group behaviors, and
how to use the information re. them.  For example, if it is in fact
true that incidence of racist anti-black feelings are high among
Chinese-Americans, then we can institute consciousness-raising programs.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,alt.discrimination
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: What is real racism? (Re: Was:Why rish asians should vote Republican)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 13:53:36 GMT

In article <BxMK94.8C3@acsu.buffalo.edu> dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.014658.9144@sarah.albany.edu> ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj) writes:
>>
>>As I recall, you made several derogatory comments.  One stated that Blacks
>>must rely on quotas to get ahead.  If this was not the gist of your message,
>>I suggest you clarify.
>
>O.K. you got me here.. I apologize to whomever I may have offended with those
>comments.. But perhaps you should also take a peek from my eyes??
>It's not easy..
>
  Especially if they're shut tight.  Your apologies don't mean jacksh*t
  because you still hold those beliefs, whether you make comments or not.
  Your posts reek of them.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: churayj@yalevm.edu (raymond Chung)
Subject: Re: Dominant American culture/Lack of Native Pride?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: Public Macs, Academic Computing, Yale University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:43:40 GMT

In article <1d9smgINNqrl@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak
Collins) wrote:
> 
> Americans are not the only ones who view their culture as the dominant culture,
> Thailand and I'm sure most other Asian countries perceive this to be true as 
> well.  In Thailand, anything American is assumed to be superior.  There is
> much to be said about the issue of rejecting your own culture to accect foreign
> ones.  As a Thai, this disturbs me very much.  Seems like everyone wants to
> be American in every way and assimilate.  That's why I admire African-Americans
> (the ones I know anyways), they seem to have more pride and dignity about
> their native culture than most Thai, Asian, Asian-American I know.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> -Art 

You don't know any "militant" (that's what we bananas at Yale call them)
Korean-Americans?  Oh man, it's crazy.  I typically get the lecture on how
I'm dishonoring not only my family but all Koreans by not learning how to
speak Korean.  Like it's my fault that I wasn't brought up speaking
Korean...
Well, having pride in your country, I think, is right, in moderation.  My
country, however, is America.  The tricky part is figuring out how much of
your ancestry is part of you.  I know I'll never move to Korea (I'd get
beat up), but I also know that there are Korean customs and values that I
can't possibly let go of.  Fortunately, those customs and values fit rather
smoothly here in America.  I like it here, don't you?


                                 ? = ! > .

                                                   r a y m o n d  C h u n g
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: What is Santa Cruz like?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 15:01:22 GMT


  My husband is exploring job opportunities in medicine
  out in Santa Cruz.  What I want to know is what is it
  like?  The medical group said that they were "liberals",
  whatever that means...  Is the town real hippie-like?
  How do they treat Asian Americans there?  Are there any
  Hispanic populations there?  We're a mixed couple,
  Asian and Hispanic, and would like to live in a mixed race
  area (like L.A., for example).  We're also fiscally
  conservative but socially liberal.  We don't do drugs
  and are family oriented.  I'm wondering what the general
  community there is like?  I picture ex-hippies (sort
  of like Big Sur) and communes...  Can anyone give me
  a better perspective?  (I'm familiar with San Diego,
  Los Angeles (the various neighborhoods), Ithaca and the Bronx,
  so comparisons with these areas would be helpful).

  [The only movie I saw with Santa Cruz in it was a Vampire
  movie...  Yikes!]

  Also how is the job situation like for computer scientists
  and applied mathematicians?  The recruiter for the medical
  group says there is a mini-Silicon Valley, but I have to
  take what he says with a grain of salt.  It is probably
  too far to commute to the real Silicon Valley.  I have
  a PhD in Applied Math, so I could probably teach also.

  How are the schools in that area?  How about childcare
  and costs?  Home prices?  Mexican restaurants?  Anything?

  :-)

  Clare
  clare@nynexst.com
From: rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou)
Subject: Re: BATTLE FOR NICHIREN NATION RAGES OUT OF CONTROL IN JAPAN
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:19:52 GMT

tueda@sco.COM (Takehiro Ueda) writes:


>In article <1dnqb7INNfij@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:

[long story about Nichiren deleted]

>Hey, what is this ? Is this a fiction ? Of course, it is. Why won't the person 
>who posted this please say "this is a fiction" just in case ? I'm afraid that 
>some American friends who read this may take it seriously. I was born in Hyogo
>and had lived there for 26 years until 1991 but I've never heard of this ;-)
>Anyway this is a pretty good fiction. I enjoyed this. 

>Thanks,
>Take Ueda


This isn't entirely fiction.  This is very close to what happened to India
except all of the Indian politicians' names and locations have been
replaced with Japanese ones.  I am curious why the original poster did
this?




-- 
Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
Motorola Austin / Eclectic Environs
From: SCW112@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: 1992 Election results of Calif Asian Americans
Date: 8 Nov 92 21:24:06 GMT
 <BxDFyx.A08@acsu.buffalo.edu> <yfA=za-@engin.umich.edu>
Organization: Penn State University


n
From: joshia@bones.com.msu.edu (Amaresh R. Joshi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: BATTLE FOR NICHIREN NATION RAGES OUT OF CONTROL IN JAPAN
Keywords: sikhs, nichiren
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:53:04 GMT
Organization: College of Osteopathic Medicine, MSU

tueda@sco.COM (Takehiro Ueda) writes:
>
> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>
>!
    story of Sikh militants with names changed deleted
>!
>
>
>Hey, what is this ? Is this a fiction ? Of course, it is.

Actually it is a description of the Sikh terrorist/seperatist
struggle in India, with all the names changed to Japanese ones
Indira Gandhi -> Nakasone, etc...

>Why won't the person 
>who posted this please say "this is a fiction" just in case ? I'm afraid that 
>some American friends who read this may take it seriously. I was born in Hyogo
>and had lived there for 26 years until 1991 but I've never heard of this ;-)
>Anyway this is a pretty good fiction. I enjoyed this. 

Me too.

joshi


-- 
Amaresh R. Joshi             | '... across the pale parabola of joy'
joshia@bones.cl.msu.edu      |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:10051 soc.culture.bangladesh:5832
From: dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinese for Perot
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:38:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

In article <1992Nov5.014202.19259@ampex.com> leepeng@ampex.com (Peng Lee) writes:
                                             ^^^^^^^
Li Peng Xia Tai Ping Min Fen :)

>In article <1992Nov2.180012.745@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>	The reason why Perot insists that we raise tax to pay the $4,000,000,000,000
>	debt is that HE OWN $2,000,000,000 of them.  Majority of he wealth is 

I can see Perot right now, holding a check list:
"Got it, got it, need it, got it, need it, need it, got it ... "

>	AND guess who doesn't have to pay that tax.  -- You guess it   Perot!

I don't know if you guys also know about this.. A local Radio station here
in Buffalo NY have been playing a segment put together w/ phoney questions
and phoney answers.. Example: one of the questions asked was "Mr. Perot:
why do you propose a 50 cents gasoline taxes," and the answer was a line
from Bryan Adams' Everything I Do I Do It For You..

>    In my view, the best way to take care of the national debt is to file 
>    bankruptcy.  Tell all the people we own money to "you will get a penny

File bankruptcy?? Spain did 400 years ago, and look at it today

>	on a dollar. If you don't like it,  tough luck.".   A more civil way 
>	to do this is to have 1000% percentage inflation in 1994.  We will 
>	easily pay off the debt in year 2000 when average income is $1,000,000 
>	and a single family home cost $20,000,000.  And four trillion dollar
>	is 1% of california's state budget.   Who knows, with good old democrat
>	back in power, we might get what we wanted.

Inflation? That's what Germany did before Hitler took over, and now they're
so scared of inflation that their interest rates are among the highest in
the world


NW