From: adye@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Alan Dye)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay scene in Boise?
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:47:35 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID

Hi,

I got the following piece of email, roundly, and justifiably, chastising
me for my posting about the Oly, here in Boise.  Since reading it, and
replying to it, I realize that I may have left a wrong impression, "doesn't
everybody who posts on usenet get mis-understood at least once?"

So, I have included the message below, (anonymously, of course...) along
with my reply message.




> 	So what you're saying then is that of the two the Oly is likely
> to be 1) the friendlier, 2) the more inclusive, 3) the one with less
> attitude, and 4) the one where I, and most people, would have a better time.
> 
> 	There are thousands of words in the English language.
> Surely it would not take too many neurons that would allow you
> to select adjectives that would accurately place both bars, yet avoid
> bashing one against the other based upon your own tastes.  Since the Oly
> is still in business I infer that some people CHOOSE to go there over
> the Emerald.  For those people, then, the Oly has positive qualities
> over the Emerald.  To assume that those people don't count or to assume
> that all the people reading soc.motss do not fall into those categories
> is a big mistake.
> 


I came out about two years ago in Pocatello, Idaho.  Not exactly what you
would call a thriving community for gay and lesbian people.  The bar that
I first went to, "The Down Under" was the type of bar you describe.  Yes,
it was seedy, and a fire trap, but the people were honest and kind.  I found
out a great deal about being gay, and about things like predjudice and 
bias.  In short, I found acceptance here.  I don't think I'll ever forget
Ron, the bar owner, or all of the close friends that I first made there.

When the Down Under closed down, another Bar opened in Pocatello a few
months later.  (We only get 1 at a time, the town isn't very big.)  This
one, "The Last Call," was also a small, community type bar.  Most of the
same people, and just as friendly, but quite a bit cleaner, and more
pleasant.  Friendly people do not reside soley in dirty, seedy bars.

When I graduated from college in May, I moved here to Boise.  Initially,
I was quite frustrated with the Emerald.  I'm not exactly what you would
call the young and beautiful type.  So, thinking the same thoughts that 
you state above, I went to the Oly.  Let me describe it for you.  

When I first walked in, I noticed an unpleasant smell.  I asked the friend
I was with about it, but he only pointed.  There was vomit on the floor in
the corner by the bathroom.  Evidently it had been there for some time.  It
was dried, and cracked.  We purchased a couple of beers, at 50% more than we
would have had to pay at the Emerald, or any other bar in Boise, and went
out to the "courtyard" to sit down and drink them.  Nobody in the entire
bar would look at us, let alone say hello.  The "courtyard" was some pallets
over a gravel area.  Cigarette butts littered the ground, and the chairs were
too dirty to sit in.  

We finished our beers standing alone, and left the bar without so much as
a goodbye from the proprietor.  Thinking that since I was new, I was meeting
with some natural aloofness, I have been back several times, but to the same
scene.  The environment has never been friendly, or clean.  

I don't mind a little dirt.  I grew up on a farm.  I do resent being charged
more, simply because the owner feels that he has a captive clientelle.  I
do resent the fact that no money is ever re-invested in the bar, to make it
more pleasant.  You would not patronize any other business that conducted
their work this way, but you might feel it is OK to patronize a bar that isn't
fit to house cattle, simply because they serve a gay clientelle.  I don't 
believe in that.  Provide a good service, or loose your clientelle to another
firm.  

In short, "yes, 'those people' do count.  I happen to be one of them."  You
might have justifiably felt that I was being biased against the Oly, but 
not for the reasons that you would think.  I have no doubt that people who
are younger and older than myself read soc.motss.  I also have no doubt
that there are people of varying degrees of education, culture, and attitude.
It may have appeared that I was bashing one bar over another, but I was simply
a little terse in my descriptions.

Hope this clears up my post for you.

Alan "not so young, beautiful, and full of attitude as you might think
      from reading this posting" Dye


--
___________________________________________________________________________
Alan W. Dye   PHONE: (208) 323-6167        adye@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
                                           71053,1301@compuserve.com
    
Software Applications Specialist           "Cleverness is its own reward."
Hewlett Packard Boise Site Operations  
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