HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tsirbasc@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Tsirbas Christos)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: neil's cross?
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:13:34 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Previous poster writes:

Would you please define the term "alternative"? I've never heard any
The Cure songs, but many "alternative" bands such as Nirvana and REM
sound horribly typical and medicore to me; there's nothing "alternative"
about them.

I guess that alternative means non-mainstream, possibly not really radio-
oriented.  It is very hard for me to define alternative because the distinction is so fuzzy and because, in Canada, the music scene is much less fragmented than in the states.  For me, basically, Alternative means music that is different,
unique, and challenging.  Okay, I admit, Nirvana may be a bad example, but I
still think that REM is pretty much an alternative band.  But I'll give you
an example of the confusion:  In England, The Smiths were considered a Pop-
band, in the rest of the world an alternative or underground band.  In Canada,
Blue Rodeo is considered to be a mainstream band, as are the Tragically Hip and
The Grapes of Wrath and the Up and coming "Bare naked Ladies" (who by the way
do a tribute to Rush on their song grade nine).  That is why I cannot really
define alternative here, I mean there are certain genres that I can point
out, like speedcore, industrial, techno, etc., but one man's alternative is
another's mainstream, and like I said, this is especially true in Canada, which
has a more ecclectic 'mainstream' scene in that a lot of groups that would be
considered underground in the states are considered mainstream up here.
As for bands I am really interested in right now, two of the aforementioned 
Canadian bands Bare Naked Ladies and Blue Rodeo have released excellent albums
in the past few months, and then of course, I am eagerly awaiting something new
from England's "The Men they couldn't Hang".  Last but not least, how can I
forget "Dead can Dance", I just got their greatest hits compilation and I was
blown away by the mixture of styles on this album, and yes, I will be getting
the new Peter Gabriel as soon as it comes out.

Chris Tsirbas
tsirbasc@brise.ere.umontreal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Piano in Rush songs?
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 10:21:28 EDT

What Rush songs use piano--real honest-to-God ebony and ivory--and who plays
it? On PeW "The Spirit of Radio" and "Different Strings". Hugh Syme gets
credit for "Different Strings", but not "SOR".
 
Are there any thoughts on why there's so little piano in Rush's music? Maybe
because of their humble club-playing origins?
 
--Ethan
 
    "The sign of Eth is rising in the air..."
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: fes9s@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Frank Erick Sellin)
Subject: Re: Neil's depth (was Re: neil's cross?)
Summary:  Douse the flames, could we? 
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:39:04 GMT

Folks, these long flames for the last 100 plus posts are really eating up
bandwidth and really trying my patience.  What say we get back to what it
is we're supposed to be doing:  contributing to the free flow of information
and avoiding polemics?  If you still feel the need to flame, clog your
personal mailboxes, not the net.

[Just a reaction, not a flame in itself.]

Frank Sellin
==============
"We fight the fire
 While we're feeding the flames"
==============
From: v064myby@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Encores.
Date: 4 Oct 92 06:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	I don't really know if I should post this here, but I think 
the "encores" in a big time rock show are total Bravo Sierra.  
	The only concert I ever saw where the encores weren't stale 
was the Kinks in 1983 - they turned the house lights back on, then 
off again!. 
						
							Latre,
							Chris Q.
From: tsirbasc@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Tsirbas Christos)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Misprints
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:01:38 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Previous poster writes:

>According to Geddy Lee, the lyrics on the liner notes are correct.
>
>Chris Tsirbas
 
This begs for support--where did Geddy Lee say that? PeW? ESL? Rockline
interview? Newspaper article?
 
--Ethan

__________________________
It could have been Rockline, but actually, I believe that I may have misquoted.

I think that it was actually Neil who answered that in one the Ask Neil columns
in the official fan-club newsletter.  I don't know, I don't remember.  I don't
keep track of the trivia I have ammassed in my brains in the 26 years I have
been alive.

Chris Tsirbas
tsirbasc@brise.ere.umontreal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jpm56290@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Duner)
Subject: Re: RTB drumming
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:33:58 GMT

uslave@mcl.ucsb.edu (Sir Prize!!!) writes:

>In <1992Sep30.185705.580@eng.umd.edu> cfynx@eng.umd.edu (Sridhar P. Rao) writes:



>I dunno.  I don't think the drum part for The Big Money is all that hard
>either.  It's pretty creative, but not difficult.  I think the older stuff
>is generally better......Hemispheres, La Villa Strangiato, Natural Science,
>etc.

Just a little note here.  I am a drummer and I think Natural Science is not
that hard to play.  To me Tom Sawyer is pretty hard, because his right hand
is moving pretty fast.  I remember Neil saying in an interview that he always
looked forward to playing Tom Sawyer in concert, because he feels that it's
hard to play, and it is like a test for him to see if he hasn't "lost it".
Also the end od Barchetta is hard with his right hand on the ride 
cymbal.  I can't get mine to go that fast!  :)


-- 
 = U   U     IIIII =================Les Claypool- I will rape your personality==
 = U   U       I    John Meseke              Pummel you with my own philosophy==
 = U   U  of   I                              Strip you of your self-integrity==
 = UUUUU     IIIII  jpm56290@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu===To make you all a bit like me.==
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: mmarx@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Marx)
Subject: Re: Get Busy with the facts...
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:37:00 GMT

In <1992Sep28.225414.6721@midway.uchicago.edu> mcr1@quads.uchicago.edu (mark conley roller) writes:

>I was just wondering out their in the 'invisible airwaves' kingdom
>if any other place aside from Baltimore (specifaclly 98 ROCK) shit-canned
>the rap because the DJ's thought it was stupid.

Leave it to 98 ROCK (actually 97.9 :) to do something reeeeeely
st00pid in their attempt to be a wayK00| RadioStation. Dorks.
[Disclaimer: I am a Baltimore native!]

>Well they shit-canned it for a week, and the song sounded like their
>breaths - foul. What ensued was that many people called to complain 
>and after a week and a half, they re-introduced (gaawwd) the rap part.
>What a bunch of losers. 

I can hear what happened the first time they played the *full* song:
"All riiiiiiiiight! Here's the W00rldPremier(tm) of the new release of
Rush's "Roll the Bones." Right here on 98 ROCK!!"

And then they play Tom Sawyer. :)
-- 
Matt Marx                   "All I've got is all I need
mmarx@csli.stanford.edu      but I get no sleep and I'm tired to the bone."
Who/Knows '92                      -- Richard Marx
From: tbeaudoin@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: vo vo vo vo cal
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:26:02 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

>>Maybe this has been done to death in a previous life^H^H^H^Hthread.
>>This is also a copy with the newspaper headlines blanked out.
>>
>>-dave
>>
>>-- 
>>djd@uk.ac.reading.cs.csug
>>djd@uk.ac.reading.cs.csg
>>davidd@integ.uucp
> 
	This topic of Freewill lyrics has been debated at LENGTH here 
and on the NMS, i think.  in fact, there was a BIG long discussion about
freewill (philosophically speaking) attached to it.

> Yeah, I just found that on my PeW CD, too. Anybody have it on the vinyl? (I
> sold mine a long time ago.) My guess is that Ged had a lyric sheet pinned
> up in the studio, and, having his hands so busy, got a little distracted and
> read "still" on the same line as "made a choice."  Or just switched around
> the words in mid-vocal without really thinking about it.  Either way, I like
> it. Food for thought, and all that...
> 
> Frank

	"having his hands so busy"?  i would assume that Geddy records the
vocal tracks SEPARATE from the bass tracks. in fact, much later than the 
bass tracks..

Thomas Beaudoin
From: d40374w@kaira.hut.fi (Tero Valkonen)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Neil's depth (was Re: neil's cross?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:33:27 GMT
Organization: The rational midnight star

In article <Pmm4RB7w165w@mintir.new-orleans.la.us> vortexae@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Niki LeBoeuf) writes:

   So what's the Phil Collins trick? :-)

Write about a tense subject in a typical way. Are you familiar with the 
lyric of "Another day in paradise"? It's absolutely horrible, and I think
that Heresy is just as bad, but the fact that it's written by Neil makes
it even worse. 
I hate the idea of complaining about the world's problems childishly. Sure,
that does appeal to a lot of people but it won't change anything and it
makes you a hypocrite in my eyes. "All those wasted years, all those 
precious wasted years / Who will pay?" What BULLSHIT! Sure, the social
experiment in East Europe was a big failure, but Neil's lyric about
it is stupid. 
Most of Phil Collins' lyrics are like the one of Heresy. "Oh, I'm feeling
so depressed" or "Oh, look at that - there are people suffering. I'm
a messiah when I point out this fact." Yuck.
--
Tero Valkonen
d40374w@kaira.hut.fi
From: PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Re: The BIG change -- a new thread?
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 10:36:34 EDT

In article <96898@bu.edu>
jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>>In article <96813@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep25.212251.19686@bnr.ca> herrage@bnr.ca writes:
>>>>In article <96784@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>>>>Why the semi-drastic changes from Hemispheres to Permanent Waves then?
>>>This is great material for a new thread. WHY the big change?
>
>>According to the _Chronicles_ liner notes, Rush wanted to make more
>>radio-oriented songs.  (some may feel that implies selling out)
>
>Seeing as I own all non-compilations, I don't own this set. Who
>wrote these liner notes (Mercury records?) and/or is there a copy
>of them online somewhere?
>
>Gregg
 
In italics at the end of the liner notes is the name John Swenson. I've never
heard this name before, but maybe that shows ignorance. His name is nowhere
else in the liner notes.
 
Relevant excerpt--
 
It wasn't until the 1980 album Permanent Waves, though, that Rush made the
most dramatic transformation. Having gone through heavy metal and art rock,
the band emerged as an arena and FM radio-oriented band, spinning catchy yet
thoughtful tunes like Freewill and The Spirit of the Radio [note--THE Radio--
ethan]. Lee, always a stupendous bassist, suddenly took center stage with his
extraordinary synthesizer work.
 
"It was time to stop the concept stories," Lee said. "What you have to say ends
up being very nebulous, because you're concerned with the big story. You try to
make the story right, you try to evoke the right moods, and invariably sixteen
different people come up to you and tell you sixteen different things about
what you're trying to say. That's fine, but for us it was time to come down out
of the fog for a while and put down something concrete."
 
--End relevant excerpt
 
So this says pretty definitively why the shift in style, I think. Are the
quotes in these notes new, or are they taken from some interview that everyone
knows?
 
I apologize if the line spacing is off--the word-wrap on this terminal is
non-functional.
 
I have no clue if the entire liner notes are online somewhere or not. It would
be a fairly major PITA to type them out, I think.
 
I hope this was of interest---
 
--Ethan
 
    "The sign of Eth is rising in the air..."
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Re: The BIG change -- a new thread?
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 16:32:49 EDT

In article <uslave.717620277@mcl>
uslave@mcl.ucsb.edu (Sir Prize!!!) writes:
>>thoughtful tunes like Freewill and The Spirit of the Radio [note--THE Radio--
>>ethan].
>
>What is the significance of this nitpick?  I've seen it called "The Spirit of
>Radio" and "Spirit of the Radio".  My copy of "Permanent Waves" says "The
>Spirit of Radio", while in a magazine article (interview with Geddy in Guitar
>I believe) Geddy called it "Spirit of the Radio".  So what's the big deal?  I
>personally call it by what it says on my PW album, but why should you insist
>that it's called one thing and not another when even the band members have
>called it both at one time or another?
 
I tried to mail a response to this, but it bounced---
 
I really don't care what it's called, either; I was just recalling a thread
about a month ago which debated that issue fairly heavily. Many people cited
Rockline interviews, the intro on ESL, etc. to support their point, and I
though the Chronicles liner notes might have shed some more light on the
question (or muddied it up more).
 
As to whether it's important or not, it's certainly not. Go with what's on PeW
and ESL, or with what Geddy might or might not be saying before the song on
ESL. I was just posting that excerpt for the benefit of those without
Chronicles--I didn't mean to get flamed.
 
--Ethan
 
    "The sign of Eth is rising in the air..."
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Neil's depth (was Re: neil's cross?)
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:51:34 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1687310174.PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) writes:
>In article <1992Oct01.212847.4361@bnr.ca>
>therese@crchh588.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Therese McCarthy) writes:
>>
>> In other words, what songs qualify as having
>>no deep insights or REAL thought-provoking subjects?

>Tai-Shan? It's about the most gratuitous, masturbatory fluff I've had the
>displeasure of hearing Rush record. Not to knock Neil too much, but this idea
>of climbing the mountaintop in China and writing a song like that is trite, I
>think.

>"China sang to me ... a song of eternity." Puhleeeeze.


Yes, not so great. I've always wondered how the lyrics might feel
different if the music were much different. I think the music
exaggerates the fact that the lyrics are a bit like what you might
find on the back of a postcard written by somebody whose taken
one too many empathy pills... 

One of Neil's few failures, IMHO...


Gregg

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Jaeger    (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu)     | Tristero?   ______/|/|  Treestero?
Dept(s). of Physics (and Philosophy)      ------------    (_) \|\|  Trystero?
Boston University, 590 Commonwealth Ave.,Boston MA 02215 ---------------------
From: uslave@mcl.ucsb.edu (Sir Prize!!!)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: RTB drumming
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:06:28 GMT

In <97503@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>In article <uslave.718081817@mcl> uslave@mcl.ucsb.edu (Sir Prize!!!) writes:


>>As a drummer myself, I think the second half of Hyperspace from Natural Science
>>is harder to play than both Tom Sawyer and Red Barchetta.  I have little
>>trouble playing Tom Sawyer...

>I suppose it depends on what you consider `playing' Tom Sawyer. I recall
>that what Neil finds difficult about Tom Sawyer is not the amount of
>agility it requires so much as the amount of energy it requires -- when
>Neil plays Tom Sawyer he _really_ puts alot of power into his playing.
>I seem to recall his saying that while they were recording TS in the
>studio he went through several drum heads because of how hard he was
>hitting the drums (to get a tone that can only be gotten by deforming
>the heads _alot_). Remember Neil's a big guy too!

Well, when hitting hard is necessary (his fills before "No his mind is not
for rent / to any god or government", et al.), then I'll hit hard.  When it
isn't, I'll lay back and save my energy.  If he slams it, then he does, but
some drummers naturally hit soft, and others hit hard.  I happen to be a
soft drummer, whereas a friend of mine is a hard drummer (goes through Remo
Pin Stripes in a month!).  Depending on that, a drummer can only play so
hard before his playing loses some touch and musicality.  Expecting everyone
who says they "can play Tom Sawyer" to play as hard as Peart is out of the
question; expecting them to be able to pull off everything Peart does with
dynamics and precision isn't.

Besides, putting energy in a song doesn't strictly mean playing loud..


*        *      *     *     *    *   *  *  * * ** ** *** **** ****** *********
   Jesse Chang  (Sir Prize!!!)            INTERNET:  uslave@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu *
   "-.-- -.-- --.." "Technology - high, on the leading edge of life."  -Rush *
*         *       *      *     *    *   *  *  * ** ** *** **** ****** ********
From: tsirbasc@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Tsirbas Christos)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Strange Morse Code!
Date: 28 Sep 92 01:54:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Francois,

Je suis parfaitement d'accord que Rupert Hine a 
exerce trop d'influence sur les dernieres deux
disques de Rush.  En fait, Hine est un producteur
que je deteste. Il a completement demoli Chris de Burgh
et Saga, quand il a travaille sur leurs microsillions.
Je trouve qu'il exerce trop d'influence sur les
musiciens avec lesquels il travaille et qu'il y a
beacoup de semblance entre les disques des artistes
divers qui ont travaille avec lui.  En fait, je
trouve que le choix de Hine comme producteur vraiement
bizarre car, avant la sortie de Presto et Role the Bones,
les gars de Rush affirmaient qu'ils voulaient moins du
synthe et plus de guitares dans leur musique et une
sonorite moins sur-produit, ce qui n'est pas du tout
le cas avec les deux derniers albums, dans mon optique,
les deux derniers albums sont les plus electroniques et
articifiels de l'histoire de Rush.

Christos Tsirbas
Universite de Montreal
_____________________________________
If any of you object to posts in French,
just a little reminder, Neil went to
great lengths to learn French and now
spends a lot of his time in his home
in the Laurentians in Quebec
_____________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: d40374w@kaira.hut.fi (Tero Valkonen)
Subject: Re: Piano in Rush songs?
Organization: The rational midnight star
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:41:57

In article <1687291A8.PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) writes:

   What Rush songs use piano--real honest-to-God ebony and ivory--and who plays
   it? On PeW "The Spirit of Radio" and "Different Strings". Hugh Syme gets
   credit for "Different Strings", but not "SOR".

You forgot the most beautiful: Available Light. Is there anyone else, by
the way, who thinks that the "play of light, a photograph <...> or the
colors shine too bright" part of Available Light is the most emotional
(and beautiful) piece of music Rush have ever done? Alex's guitar is SO
damn beautiful in there, as is everything else.
 
   Are there any thoughts on why there's so little piano in Rush's music? Maybe
   because of their humble club-playing origins?

There isn't very much accordion either in Rush's music. I guess they would
have used piano more in the past if it had suited their music.
--
Tero Valkonen
d40374w@kaira.hut.fi
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: md2946@csc.albany.edu (Alex Lifeson)
Subject: Idiot!!
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Distribution: alt.music.rush
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:49:31 GMT
X-Posted-From: thor.albany.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

this is in response to the imbecile who asked the name of rush's first drummer
uh...uhh..  like 

John Rutsey...



Dont waste our time with stupid questions.  On another note I was thinking the 
other day about the guitar work of Alex on various albumns.  A lot of people 
have bitched that Rush is getting old, but if you listen to the guitar work
on their most recent two or three albumns it is good.  So are the vocals, the
lyrics and the drum work.  So I ask you how are they getting old?
--
"The more that things change , the more they stay the same"                                                           
____________________________________________________________________________
DISCLAIMER:The opinions stated herein are mine and if you dont like them...|
too fuckin bad!!!                                                          |
___________________________________________________________________________|
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Neil on the Rolling Stones
Keywords: citation included
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:41:59 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <97338@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>`The Stones?'

>`Sure they do. You don't think they're good?' This wasn't a question;
>it was a statement.

>`I [Kordosh] think they've written a good song or two.'

>`You can't say they're good musicians,' countered Peart,...

>`They're good musicians. They're astute songwriters.'

>`Astute? In other words, clever marketing strategists.' ''

>End of excerpt. The complete interview is available via ftp from
>syrinx. Just in case anyone thought my comment about Neil's statements
>about the Stones were `inside information'...

p.s. the interview appeared in Creem magazine. The file at
syrinx.umd.edu is in the directory rush/special and have 
`creem' in the filename..

Gregg



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Jaeger    (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu)     | Tristero?   ______/|/|  Treestero?
Dept(s). of Physics (and Philosophy)      ------------    (_) \|\|  Trystero?
Boston University, 590 Commonwealth Ave.,Boston MA 02215 ---------------------
From: PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Combining two threads!
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 00:29:35 EDT

This is from the 30 January 1992 issue of the Vancouver Sun. I culled it from
NEXIS, and I apologize if I'm rehashing something available via ftp.
 
Begin Relevant Excerpt--
 
In much the same way that 1980's Permanent Waves and 1981's Moving Pictures
marked a move to shorter, hookier songs such as Spirit of the Radio and New
World Man, which heralded the end of the band's prog-rock tendencies, Roll the
Bones likewise keeps in tune with the times with a rap section in the title
track.
 
"We've used spoken-word sections in the past but it's only now that it's
become trendy," Lee says. "We really just had a lot of fun with it and decided
to throw it into the song because, if nothing else, it would upset people."
 
--End Relevant Excerpt
 
Notice the writer's (Greg Vansun) appareent mistake in the title of one of
Rush's songs--I take no position on this, I merely point it out.
 
Much more interestingly and importantly is Geddy's commentary on the rap
portion of "Roll the Bones."
 
I make no judgements; I merely submit here for your consideration. As a side
note, if any of you has access to NEXIS through your school or company, take
advantage of it. There are hundreds of articles about Rush, for instance, or
everything else on Earth. I hope this helps contribute to discussion.
 
--Ethan
 
    "The sign of Eth is rising in the air..."
From: Phil.Hodges@f601.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Phil Hodges)
Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com