HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 22:32:17 GMT


Eggert continues to ignore the points that demonstrate his bankruptcy
and argues on chopped-up postings taken out of context. 

I now make a special offer.


In article <EGGERTJ.92Aug23000353@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

>I guess you have conveniently forgotten the recent riots in the Gaza
>Strip, when the Jewish crowds were yelling "Kill the Arabs!"?  (This
>was by no means unique to this riot, mind you.)

>[re the 1950's Israeli bomb attacks on the US information center
>libraries in Cairo and Alexandria]

>Just what is your time limit on partisan politics, Jake?  Looks like
>40 years is too long when it involves Israeli terrorism, and (from
>earlier in your same posting)

>about two hundred years is none too long when it involves Palestinian
>violence.  What a hypocrite.


Tell you what, Jim.  If I confess that Israeli mobs have been killing 
Palestinean Arabs by the hundreds, that Jewish law calls for such
killing to glorify the name of G-d, that Israeli commando units bomb
American bases and nightclubs, killing hundreds of GIs at a time and
kidnap and hang US diplomats and consular attache's, that Israel has
always been the foremost supporter of terrorism in the Middle East and
in the world and has supported the hijacking and bombing of dozens of 
civilian airliners over a span of decades, that Arabs in Arab states
are in fear of their lives from stabbings and booby-trap bombs in the
streets placed by the Jewish and Zionist elements in their society....

...then will you go away and have a few beers with Schmidling and
leave us alone?  

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:10:36 GMT
Subject: FEC and AIPAC in trouble again
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast

Seven former U.S. officials are suing the Federal Election Commission (FEC).
They're charging that the FEC should have punished the American Israel Public 
Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the pro-Israel lobby group, for illegally directing
campaign contributions to favored candidates. The FEC turned the other cheek 
even through its own general counsel found that AIPAC had probably violated 
the law.  The seven include former Under Secretary of State George Ball, 
former Illinois Rep. Paul Findley and Andrew Kilgore, former U.S. ambassador 
to Qatar.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: politics
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:55:45 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Sep2.092509.9014@rs.com> horen@west.rs.com writes:
>In article 2452652@locus.com, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>
>>I personally careless for the name.  
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Yup. That about says it all -- "careless"
				^^^^^^^^^

	How about "carefree"?


...  And you said you went to Woodstock, right?

Wow, are we babies or what ? ... :) :-)

:-)  Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:28:39 GMT

In article <5358@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne)
writes:

|>NO LINK OF SHAMIR TO DOCUMENT NOR OF LEHI TO FASCISM
|>	It was noted that at the time this document was sent 
|>Shamir was not leading LEHI and since authorship can not be 
|>determined by its contents it must be that anyone attributing it 
|>to Shamir  is also engaging in speculation 

There is good reason to beleive that the document came from LEHI and thus Shamir
is implicated. Foremost amonge=st thes is despite the fact that the allegations
originate from the mainstream Israeli press (Heretez) Shamir has not answered
them. This is equivalent to John Major refusing to answer a similar allegation
in the Times.

Secondly the document is either genuine or deliberately forged. If it is a
forgery it is a contemperary one which makes the motives of such a forgery very
difficult to determine. The only plausible explanation would have been a British
attempt to perform some sort of disinformation/sting operation on either the
NAZIs or LEHI or both. If this were the case though Shamir would have made a
denial.

|> One can 
|>only speculate, but perhaps Stern thought that the Germans were 
|>less anti-semitic than the British and therefore better allies in the 
|>end.  Since Stern was murdered by the British authorities it's a hard 
|>argument to refute.

Only an appologist for Sterns terrorist actions could describe his death as
"murder". 

|> While I never particularly liked Shamir's 
|>policies I believe that he is no worse than Bush, Mitterand, Major and 
|>any other democratically elected leader of the 20th century. 

Once again Miterand is the terrorist who ordered the bombing of the Rainbow
Warrior in Auckland Harbour. He also ensured that those responsible for this act
of murder were released. George Bush's actions as head of the CIA and later as
VP in Regan's government. John Major is an office boy who is way out of his
depth, even more of a pupet than Shamir was.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: LC
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:26:19 GMT

In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>
>>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
				  ^^^^^^^^^
What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
land of the Philistines.  Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.  This 
land is that of the Philistines.  Read actual history books and ask the 
people of the land, do not read the books of a bunch of thief-authors, and
ask the invadors.

>>>"Palestinians". That's a shameful lie which is bandied about all too often.
>>
>>Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on where the Philistines lived?
>>
>>Brendan.
>
>:-)  We can always count on ya!  :)

Indeed.

jle
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: What is the KD? Re: When Anisa answers...
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:26:59 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <3677@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <Btr73H.F1C.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>
>>KD refers to the Kuwaiti Dinar.  The exchange rate between 
>>KD and the dollar fluctuates between 3.1 and 3.5 dollars/1 KD (I
>>believe it currently stands at 3.3).
>
>Okay.
>
>>So, for example, in 1984, GDP was about 20+ billion dollars and
>>foreign aid was approximately 3 billion dollars.
>
>What is GDP?  Gross domestic product?  Does the 20+ B include the
>reserves or was that wiped out during the Gulf War?

GDP, in this particular case, seems to include oil revenue and 
revenue from overseas investment.  I will get an exact answer 
to this and the other questions you have posed me.  

>
>>>Also, as I pointed out earlier, one of the tacit purposes 
>of KFAED was to take provide a direct line of aid to people in 
>poorer countries, bypassing the corruption involved in 
>governmental contracting procedures.
>
>Hmmm.... the Bank of Kuwait dealt directly without government
>knowledge?

If I recall correctly, KFAED was a semi-private organization
(only partially funded by the government).  In countries 
which it chose to aid, it contracts the projects directly
as opposed to giving the money to the government of that
country.  At the very least, this probably minimized the
number of bribes that had to be paid in some countries.

As I said, I can get exact answer to these questions in a 
few days.


>
>What about post-War?  Is Kuwait still generously providing
>aid and loans?

This I don't know.  Again, I can definitely find out. 

I would guess that the cost of rebuilding, reduced 
GDP, and political realignment over the last three years has 
sorely depleted this aid.

>
>Do you know what the percentages are in view of support to
>Iraq?

This is a factor.  Another question I will answer.

>
>I'll be even more impressed if I see current stats.  But I
>appreciate your effort.
>
>Anisa
>


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Religion and Politics (was: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT...)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:52:33 GMT

In article <3716@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>Danny Keren writes:

>I follow along with your reasoning; however, I think what I have
>always tried to stress here (in so many words) is that to the
>non-Muslims, an Islamic system is suppression and followers/supporters
>of such are backward, ignorant, etc.  This holds true in the case
>of the Chassidic Jews - in the United States as well as in the
>secular state of Israel (I am told to a certain degree).

True, and I disagree with the assessment in the cases of both Islam
and Judaism.

>#Then what was the reason God sent prophets to the people?
>>
>>Have you seen any prophets lately? We are in desperate need of
>one.
>
>:-)  Don't you people believe that Rabbi Menachem Schneerson is
>a prophet?  

No, most of us don't.

>:-)  Funny how he doesn't even set foot in Yisrael ...

He's in the process of building a house there. He wants to wait until
the messiah comes before he goes there... but fully expects that to be
within his lifetime, and he's around ninety. Ben-Gurion was always my
favorite choice for messiah, personally.

>We are all looking for a miracle - for the Supreme Guidance.  But
>maybe we can help each other by making peace together ... you
>know, brotherly love and acceptance.

It'd be nice if we can manage it...

>#And is the political concept of Zionism?  Why make historical
>claims based on Biblical testament then?
>>
>>The word "Zionism" has been abused to such an extent that it 
>hardly has any common interpretation anymore. Personally, I
>reject claims to land made on Biblical texts.
>
>Hmmm..... very interesting.  So you are not a Zionist?

As we've said, Anisa, there are lots of Zionists who base their
claims entirely on non-Biblical sources. The Bible is one source,
but not the only one by any means.

>Anisa

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: politics
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:39:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.022619.2423654@locus.com>, jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
> In article <3625@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug21.073928.17880@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
> >>
> >>In article 22555@rs.com, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
> >>>The Philistines were *never* in Israel -- and their name *never* evolved into
> 				  ^^^^^^^^^
> What Israel?  The now adays place known, by force, as israel is the stolen
> land of the Philistines.  Israel of the thieves , if you wish , exists
> around Germany that if the Germans, Polish, ...etc wish it to be.  This 
> land is that of the Philistines.  Read actual history books and ask the 
> people of the land, do not read the books of a bunch of thief-authors, and
> ask the invadors.
> 

The land of the Philistines was around Gaza.  They controlled 5
coastal cities there, after failing in their attempt to invade
Egypt.  Philistines were Anatolian Greeks, and have no ethnic
ties with current inhabitants of the region.  In Archeological
Review an article on the results of excavations of the Philistine
cities (none of which except for Safed is within Israel proper today)
describes their fate as the same as that of the Israelites, they
were taken away by the Babylonians and transplanted somewhere in
Northern Iraq/Iran.  There is no record of them ever returning.
The Judaeans (southern Hebrews) and some Israelites (northern Hebrews)
did return 80 years later, and the Kingdom of Judaea continued
to exist until 70 C.E. when the Romans destroyed it, naming
the land Palestine, because they were the historical enemies
of the Judaeans (this according to Josephus). Also, Gaza had been the
capital city of Philistia, and when Josephus describes the Roman
destruction of the Jewish fortress of Gaza, 4 non-Judaean peoples
are mentioned, none of them Philistines.  This all shows that
the equation of modern Palestinian to Philistine is linguistic
and romantic horse___t.

Actual history books will tell you that only during the reign of
King Saul did any of present Israel come under Philistine control
and King David took all of it back, limiting them to their original
5 cities.  The land between the cities was not even theirs.

> >>>"Palestinians". That's a shameful lie which is bandied about all too often.
> >>
> >>Perhaps you would like to enlighten us on where the Philistines lived?
> >>
> >>Brendan.
> >
> >:-)  We can always count on ya!  :)
> 
See above y'all.

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: He Who Saves a Single Soul...
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:34:46 GMT


In article 8660@bony1.bony.com, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <bdm.714575071@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>>horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>
>>>The Jewish state, "Palestine" to the British, has *always* existed
>>>during the last 3O00+ years -- the "Modern" State of Israel is just
>>>that -- modern -- but it is not "new". 
>>
>>This is not fact, it's just (recent) religious dogma.  Since that
>>makes it immune to argument, I won't try.
>
>There were Jewish Kings in Israel who wrote and spoke Hebrew many
>centuries before anyone spoke any form of Arabic. 

What does this have to do with it?  The point of argument was the "*always*".

>                                                    If you wouldn't
>have such a fetish with Palestine in the middle of this century, you'd
>realize that history comprises other centuries, as well.  
>
>As for "recent" religious dogma, Jewish Kings in Israel are documented
>in a book called the Bible, though it appears that your library may
>not have a copy.

I didn't realise the Bible was written recently.  I apologise for
my ignorance.

Brendan.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19574 talk.politics.misc:43617 misc.headlines:6182 soc.rights.human:3272
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israel and Kuwait in the Spotlight
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:29:01 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Jake writes:
>
>Israel is in a similar position to Kuwait, in this respect.  Israel
>offers Arabs more freedoms than they can have virtually anywhere else
>in the Middle East.

Liberating them from what, Jake?  Their homes?  The land of their
birth?

>  However, because it is so much in current events
>and in the media spotlight, even relatively minor problems are posed
>as monumental while very much more egregious problems nearby are
>entirely ignored.  Other gulf states are not very different from
>Kuwait but no one ever hears about them.  (Ask anyone in the street to 
>list the names of 4 gulf states; they probably won't manage it.  Ask
>them whose land Israel has "stolen" and they'll all tell you.)

You're right.  The media plays a major role in not presenting the facts
and is the master of distortions.  This is true especially of the Gulf
region.  Since it is in the good graces of the United States, known facts
such as the prohibition of political parties and suffrage (especially to
women), are virtually unknown to the average American.  They also view
Israel as being the 'only democracy' in the Middle East because of the
misconceptions and fear of Islamic and pan-Arab nationalism.  And because
money seems to always be a factor when decifering U.S. intervention and
political prestige, the average American supports such countries as you
just stated.

But then we have people like Anwar stating that this is better than
what we see in the Middle East as a whole, while ignoring democratic
processes and supporting aggression against other Muslim states such
as Algeria, and Afghanistan.
 
>I had been hopeful that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would have recognized
>that they don't actually have major quarrels with Israel and would
>have done the right thing by moving forward with recognition and
>relations.  I am still hopeful of this, though the weak progress
>between these parties in the past 2 years has been disappointing.

This, after suggesting in the past, that there is lack of human
rights and equality for women and other Arabs, in such countries as
Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

BTW, Kuwait and Israel are two vary different examples in view of
the Palestinian situation.  The only common denominator is that
the Palestinians were once again scapegoated.

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ebrahim@ee.umanitoba.ca (Mohamad Ebrahimi)
Subject: Re: Iraq Air Force planes that flew to Iran
Organization: Elect & Comp Engineering, U of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba,Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:31:23 GMT


   In article : <BtKJ1z.KI1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>daniels@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel R. Sawyer) writes:


>ebrahim@ee.umanitoba.ca (Mohamad Ebrahimi) writes:


>>    As far as I know, Kuwaiti planes were painted by Iraqis(I saw some
>>of them in different Iranian airports last year, they were painted with
>>green and white colors, which are not the color of Iran Air) and a few

>	The confiscated planes might have been repainted by Iraq or Iran. I     >think
the Saudi officials recognized that Iran didn't have any of those >particular
aircraft types or they looked up some sort of >identification/registry
number.The interior configuration of the aircraft might >ave been a clue.

>>weeks ago Iran and Kuwait reached to an agreement to return them to
>>kuwait. The disscussion was about the maintanance fees payable by Kuwait.

>   I think it would be odd that Kuwait would have to pay for the maint-
>anence fees while they were in Iranian hands.  It seems like reimbursing an
>auto thief for maintanence.


           Looks like you are a little bit confused here! The thief has
	been Iraqi government and not Iran. Iran could reject planes and
	let them ramain in Iraq to be destroyed by allied forces, or
	could return them to Iraq after war and ask Kuwaiti government
	to deal with Sadam Hussein, or ... . Also paying maintanance
	fees and rent of airport space, etc., is an internationally
	recognized approach, not reimbursing auto thief!
 
>Daniel R. Sawyer
>daniel-sawyer@uiuc.edu
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: An aside to the Aid debate
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:08:32 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Btz5BE.IAL.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>As an aside to the debate on foreign aid, Kuwait has just announced
>it is donating $10 million to the American Red Cross for victims of 
>Hurricane Andrew.

That's wonderful, Anwar ...

May Allah The Almighty reward them a threefold in the Hearafter, insha'Allah.

Anisa
From: gene@cs.bu.edu (Gene Itkis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Date: 30 Aug 92 18:10:26 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: gene@csd


In article <1992Aug26.130502.8077@dscomsf.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>5) Communism is an unstable form of government. It's continuance requires a
>poweful and charismatic leader. 

>Phill Hallam-Baker

The charisma of Brezhnev must have left you dumbfounded... 
-- 
 ---
	Gene Itkis		(gene@cs.bu.edu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:49:22 GMT

In article <3673@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <Btp39J.Cy0.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug27.191306.2431880@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>
>>>Would you rather see Kuwait run by a 100% true moslem government
>with a 100% true moslem leader regardless if the leader was Kuwaiti,
>Iraqi, or Afghani?  Or you'd rather have the Shabah family continue
>to ride Kuwait.
>>
>> [...]  My personal opinion is that
>>state and religious institutions should reman seperate to a degree.
>>You've got a problem with that?
>
>Why do you have a problem with a true Islamic state being run by
>decent, fair, and respectable Muslim leaders?

Not speaking for Anwar: because I haven't seen any in the region yet.
I've met plenty of decent, fair and respectable Muslims, but they don't
seem to be the ones who get to power.

>Do you want to deny Muslims, what they consider to be their freedom?

Depends. If they consider it to be an infringement on their freedom to
prevent them from interfering with mine, then yes I do. I don't want to
deny Muslims or anybody else what *I* consider to be their freedom, and
I am willing to listen to their opinions on what is included in the cate-
gory of freedom. But the principle of "your right to wave your fist around
stops where my face begins" holds -- if the Muslim leaders seem to believe 
that their freedom hinges on the ability to force non-Muslims to obey Is-
lamic law, that is infringing on someone else's freedom and I will gladly
infringe on theirs in order to stop them.

>While we might respect your opinion, why don't you respect ours?

I respect your right to practice your religion as you choose, short of
forcing others to practice your religion. That seems to be what you're
looking for, though, with your insistence on an Islamic state. An Islamic
state by the standards you seem to be holding is one where everyone who
lives there will be forced to be Muslim or at least act in all ways as
if they are. YTour freedom does not require that you make people do this;
theirs does require that they stop you from so forcing them.

>Anisa

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:44:25 GMT

Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
#
#Only an appologist for Sterns terrorist actions could describe his death as
#"murder". 

Well, the guy was captured, surrendered, and then was shot in cold blood,
wasn't he? 

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast