HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Subject: Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:31:57 GMT

>Recognizing PRC is one thing, but at the expense of a long-time
>friendship is another.
>

Korean didn't have choice, it's KMT who makes many ROC's
long-time friends to betray us. Since almost every country has agreed 
and accepted that PRC represnets China, why would KMT still stubbornly 
insist they are China. If Taiwan can claim its independence, I believe 
Korean will be more than happy to recognize both PRC and Taiwan.
But, if Taiwan dare to compete with PRC in the representation of China,
the loser is obvious.

Yi-Chieh
From: txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Friendship.
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:24:55 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: txc6266@ultb

When I worked in Taiwan, the vice-precident of the company, who is a 
typical businessman, gave a definition of friend.  He said that

Friend is used to be betrayed.

Same in the international society?

Tim Cheng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korea,soc.culture.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Economical Statistics about Taiwan, S. Korea, China
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:34:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.023602.10104@ultb.isc.rit.edu> txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng ) writes:
>Dear netters,
>
>    The following economical statistics table for your referance.
>
>Timothy Cheng
>--------------
>txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu
>
>
>Source: University of Maryland at College Park Information Database
>
>Item/Country         |    Taiwan      |    S. Korea    |    China
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>Population (7/92)    |   20,658,702   |   43,134,386   |  1,151,486,981
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>Export (Billion USD) |                |                |
>       (1991)        |      67.2      |      65        |     62.1
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>Import (Billion USD) |                |                |
>       (1991)        |      54.7      |      70        |     53.4
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>External debt        |                |                |
>(Billion USD, 1990)  |       1.1      |      31.7      |      51
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>GNP  (Billion USD)   |     150.8      |      238       |     413
>---------------------+----------------+----------------+-----------------
>GNP per capita (USD) |     7380       |     5600       |     370
>
Bullshit measure for economic power--GNP!
exchange rate between U.S. dollar and German mark has dropped from 2.4
Mark/dollar to 1.4 Mark/dollar. is U.S. 40%(=1/2.4) percent less powerful just
for that, economically?
From: chu@church.cs.unc.edu (Heng Chu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:45:06 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <l9o1r5INNo5n@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
>KMT is also
>at fault due to the the territorial claim over China which puts Taiwan at a 
>very embarrassed position in terms of getting international recognition.

*** It sounds like it is ROC government's claim that puts so many countries
    to recognize (or acknowledge, whatever) Taiwan is part of China (which 
    in their words means PRC). If ROC is so small that can be ignored,
    why its claim can be so effective?

    I agree that ROC should chnage its territorial claim. But unfortunately
    that is not what made it internationally isolated, neither is the name
    ROC.  

Heng
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng )
Subject: Re: A bit more detailed about the China-South Korea normalization
Originator: txc6266@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 21:43:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.165544.6655@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>
>I do not care about either Germany or China.  Talk about them is SCG or
>SCC.  We may agree whether Republic of Democratic Taiwan or Republic of

Excuse me, may I ask what SCG/SCC stand for?

[Stuff Delete]
>entirely non-Asian, but I am more interested about the leninist
>structure of Taiwan's KMT than other Leninist societies.

Yes, it was, but isn't now. Otherwise, how come there is a DPP in Taiwan?
Besides, I don't want to invlove any problem about TI or IT.

>
>TY Huang


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens)
Subject: Racial Purity? And next, cleansing? (Was: Can we not all get along?)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 02:36:15 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Aug28.000437.24388@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.222708.23570@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>
>>First, some Taiwanese Hakka escaped from China to Taiwan more than one
>>millinium ago and historials are arguing wether Hakka were originated
>>from China proper or entered China from North Asia long time ago.  For
>>Taiwanese Holo, genetic analysis points out that they are more likely to
>>be a sinicized Yue people but the analysis is blurred by the
>>intermarriage of Holo and Taiwanese Pinpu (Austronesian or
>>Proto-Malayo-Polinesian).  There is no reason to choose China
>>particularly as homeland while there were intermarriages and migrations.
>>Also, there is no such thing as big China.  There is China Proper, the
>>region that has been consistantly populated by Han population ruled
>>effectively by the Chinese Dynasties.  These is the China ruled
>>effectively by the PRC.
>
>I don't think this is quite it.  First, the Chinese living in northern China
>now are definitely not pure Chinese (or perhaps I should say Han) stock.
>First, there were the mixture with the "Five Hu's" during the Wu4 Hu2 Lwan4
>Hua2 period and the North/South Dynasties period (304-609 for the two periods).
>Second, there was the mixture with the Turkish, Manchurian, and Mongolian
>races starting from the collapse of Tang Dynasty down to the early parts of
>Chin Dynasty.
>
>The reason why, then, the Holo should be considered Chinese is that *they*
>(like the Hakka and other southern Chinese people) are the "purer" Chinese.

Come on, guys, this business about "pure race" doesn't smell too good.

If this is indeed important, consider the implications...   And the
underlying assumptions that are *delicately* left unsaid.

Luc

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:40:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.024903.1367@nuscc.nus.sg> elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang) writes:
>...
>Ke4Jia or Hakka are independant from whoever called Min3Nan2.  Because
>the second group has no whatsoever control on the first group.  Either
>finacially or politically.  There is no strong tension among them and
>there is no threat or taking-over among them.  All these groups are
>under the same government.  They have equal opportunity to get jobs,
>education and whatsoever.  There is no need to have their own
>government.  People do so, only if they are extremely unhappy with the


	I am not interested in going into whether Hakka should be
	independent from anyone, but the reason for one group of
	people to choose independence cannot be covered simply by
	equal opportunity, or current independence on financial or
	political factors; human behaviors are way too complicated. 
	Having a government like you described will help a great
	deal of course but this issue is very subjective.

Yung-Kao Hsu
From: c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: New diplomatic relationship
Date: 25 Aug 92 15:58:33 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England


Hi everybody:



     Today I read Central Daily News(21 Aug) about that some people(DDP) said
that we could have a diplomatic with North Korea.......or whatever....


     I don't agree that we can have a diplomatic relationship with N.Korea,
if we did it..... I think Taiwan should be have a big trouble in diplomatic
situation from now on..................

     Why I don't like this idea about "North Korea case"???????????
In the world, everybody know that Taiwan is anti-Communist country, so
some anti-Communist countries like have a diplomatic relationship with
Taiwan....(Certainly only a few countries for money and want a diplomatic
relationship )...

     For example, South Africa is quite anti-Communist country, if we have
a diplomatic relationship with North Korea...... I think it will let many
anti-communist countries angry..... Maybe they will cut all of relationship
with Taiwan.......  So I don't agree that Taiwan can have a diplomatic with
N.Korea.....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


In fact, now I don't care about "How many countries we have diplomatic 
relationship??????"   When I was in Taiwan, I didn't know what wrong on
abroad......"  But when I entered Britian ( UK ), I found that everybody
said that Taiwan is real country...... Sometimes my foreign friends will
asked me that "I think Taiwan is a country... Why now Taiwan insisted to
use 'China' this name."

     My friends told me "If we used ROC this name, they often confused
with mainland China....." I think that I don't care about the country
name is Taiwan or ROC.... I only care about how we can enter international
society...... In fact I supported Taiwan independent until that mainland
China can be democracy!!!!!!!!


Chin-Yu TSAI
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12513 soc.culture.korean:4021
From: kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Sorry :Re: Wanted : Hercules Mono Hangul Emulator for KSCODE code
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:34:53 GMT
Reply-To: kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim)
Organization: Auburn University, Auburn, AL
Message-I.D.: <1992Aug27.144636.3280@ducvax.auburn.edu>Lines: 32

>
>So does any one know the hangul emaltor which supports 
>HERCULES AND KSCODE
> Please email me or post on this group for the information to all of
>netter, for some netters may have same problem.
>
[stuff deleted]
>
>Though, after reading the manual, I found that this package might
>not be useful to the average koreans. 
>
>If I can copy the CDROM to floppy version, I will upload
>to nic.funet.fi under /pub/culture/korean.
>(I uploaded dansi and vada there, because ftping rate is relatively
>fast then the job from korea) 
>Thank you.
> 

I made a big mistaks which was my full resposiblity.
Mr. Choi sent an email and he advised me that the package from Microsoft
is copyprighted and can not distribut without the permission of Micro-
soft. Sorry too much.
Also I did not realize that this posting went over Taiwan.
If some taiwanese felt not good, please forgive my unintenional mistakes.
I want to make everybody happy but too uncareless.   

My sun does not run cancel command "C"; so I can not cancel the previous posting.
Sorry second time. If I could, I should have done it to cancel. 
Sorry again and again X 1000. 

Good day and happy life.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: seody@geo1.eecs.nwu.edu (Dae Y. Seo)
Subject: Re: Korean Bashing
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:06:30 GMT

In article <5251@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim) writes:
>
>
>(Paul Chang) writes:
>>My colleague next "door" is from ROK. He told me the general reaction
> of Korean people >on the ROK-PRC normalization is not so good. He
> personally doesn't feel ROK will gain too much from this. He thinks
> although the potential market in mainland China is there, how are
> ...
>
>The main reason the South Korean govt. has been trying to get closer
>to PRC is because it wants to use Peking's influence with the North
>Koreans in its dealings with them on reunification and making peace.
>Economics is probably secondary to the political aspects and
>implications of the new relationship with Peking.
>
>The PRC is North Korea's primary ally. While the PRC and South Korea
>were enemies, the PRC would be more inclined to help the North Koreans
>in case they wanted to fight another 'Liberation war'. Normalizing
>diplomatic relations probably makes the PRC less inclined to help
>and thus adds to detering such a war, at least in the eyes of South
>Koreans. The weakening of the North's diplomatic ties with the PRC
>might also encourage North Korea to try to normalize relations
>with the west and become more open, and less xenophobic, and less
>militaristic.
>
>Of course there are a couple big ifs here, and this whole thing could
>backfire and cause the North Koreans to be more defensive and feel they
>have less to lose in a war. As for myself I feel cautiously optimistic.
>
>While I feel the way our government went about the whole affair was
>extremely dishonorable, the decision itself was inevitable. I hope that 
>after the tempers cool down in Taiwan, they will at least understand 
>the background. Another war in Korea would be devastating.
>-Han Kim
One more reason...
In my opinion ROK president Roh Tae-Woo was under pressure that
he has to do something historical that can be recorded in the history book
while he is the president. Maybe he thought he did the right thing 
and wanted historians to give him a high score.
Yes it's extremely dishonorable enough right now.
But I hope that the people from ROK and ROC can get along well again soon.

-DY
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Hi, everybody
From: Min Tom Tang <MTANG@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 23 Aug 1992 19:09:43 CDT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network


I am a new student here. I am glad that we, taiwanese, have a place to communic
ate together. I really want to have some information about what is going on in
Taiwan. I really appreciate that people can send me messages so I won't be cut
from Taiwan.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kw@c3.PLA.CA.US (Kang Wang)
Subject: Re: ROC-terminated-South Korea
Organization: C-Cube Microsystems, San Jose, CA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:52:28 GMT

I support Mr. Tzyh-Horng Cheng's words.

-Kang Wang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: News 3/9/92
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:24:46 GMT

CAPTAIN, 2 CREW OF TERFU 51 HELD

TAIPEI -- Taiwanese police yesterday detained the captain and two crew
members of the trawler Terfu 51 which hit and sank the cruise liner
Royal Pacific in the Straits of Malacca last month, said officials cited
in a Reuter report.

It said the trawler, with 22 other crew members on board, was believed
to be off western Taiwan but its exact location was still not known.

The three were being held for questioning but no charges had been laid.

The trawler had stayed on initially at the scene of the accident to help
rescue passengers but was later spotted fleeing north.  Three people
from the 13,000-tonne Royal Pacific have been confirmed dead and six are
still missing.

The Taiwanese government had ordered the Terfu to return to its home
port of Kaohsiung soon after the accident, saying that issues of
responsibility and compensation would be decided according to Taiwanese
law.

-ooOoo-

BUSH DECIDES TO END BAN ON SALE OF F-16S TO TAIWAN

WASHINGTON -- President George Bush has decided to lift a decade-old ban
on the sale of F-16 fighter jets to Taiwan, the White House announced
yesterday.  "The president will recommend the sale of 150 F-16 A/Bs", an
official aboard the president's jet said as Mr. Bush flew from
Washington to South Dakota on a campaign trip.

The (Bush) administration would now argue that the military balance
between China and Taiwan has been fundamentally changed by Beijing's
recent purchase of advanced Su-27 fighters from Russia, official said.
Taiwan has older and less capable US-built F-5s and F-104s.

The announcement would jeopardise billions of dollars in US contracts
with Beijing, notably US$4.6 billion in orders for aircraft builder
Boeing and about US$1 billion for McDonnell Douglas.

-ooOoo-

WEATHER

Taipei - 26/34 C - Cloudy
HongKong - 28/32 C - Clear
Beijing - 20/26 C - Cloudy

-ooOoo-


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao)
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Organization: MITRE
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:11:18 GMT

When I have lived in MiauLi (military service) for two years, and noticed
that the local people (Ke4Jia or Hakka) hate Min3Nan2 people just like
TIers hate CCP.  The independence of Taiwan may further divide people live
in this island, and cause bloodshed just like Yugoslavia.  So, here is the
deal.  Divide Taiwan into four contries (at least).  One for Min3Nan2
people, one for Ke4Jia people, one for Mainlander, another one for the
mountain tribes.  Of course, you know there are more than nine tribes.  I
am not sure their want establish a unified contry or different contries. 
Anyway they hate all kind of Chinese (include TIers), and their should have
a right to vote.  Well, Min3Nan2 people also have two kinds (Quang2Zhou and
Zhang1Zhou).  If Min3Nan2 people want to build two contries, that is O.K. 
Is it fun?  Every body could be a President, and every body will be
happy.
From: shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG)
Subject: Re: Let go the embassy; let Taiwan be Taiwan.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 19:39:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.171535.7223@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>	Taiwan should give up any effort to keep the historical embassy
>which was a Qing property.  The embassy is rightfully of People's
>Republic of China.  It's time to abandon the hopeless one China policy
>on the diplomatic front for Taiwan and Taiwan should embrass the one
>Taiwan policy so there will be a Taiwan embassy in Seoul in the future
>and no one can take that away from Taiwan.

surely, they can't.  because you can never build one in other countries
with name of taiwan embassy.  can't you wake up!  one china policy means
no roc, no taiwan government in their eyes.

>	South Korea has finally come to the right decision to recognize
>the true China and she should only be blamed for being the delay of this
>action.  We have to remember that Taiwan is the aggressor claiming the
>territory of China at this moment.  Aggressor will be punished until she
>stop her aggression.  We should blame ROC not ROK.

we should blame ourselves, that some of us are still in their never-wake-up
dream.  friend, could you explain the meaning of the one china policy that
korean government says?  could it be interpreted as one proc and one rot?
come on.  according my limited knowledge, every country which has 
diplomatic relation with proc, claims there is only one china and taiwan
problem is a problem belonging to chinese, or evan more, taiwan is part
of the proc.

aggressor?  who?  president lee?  i?  or you?

cs shao.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12325 soc.culture.korean:3837
From: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Queen - Worse than Robert Maxwell ????
Date: 1 Sep 92 09:49:27 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland


On the Monarchy subject, I wrote down a few facts and educated guesses
by professional Royal Watchers quoted on 'The Monarchy' documentary
series on ITV. I think you'll find it 'illuminating'  .....

Running Costs Payed for by *the State*, not her
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Royal Yacht Brittania		#20 million UKpounds/year
Royal Flight			#6 million UKpounds/year *
Royal Train 			#2.6 million UKpounds/year
Palaces				#25 million UKpounds
Civil List			#10 million UKpounds/year

* The Royal Flight was recently upgraded to 4 BAe 146 jets and 2
  Westland helicopter

Income the Queen gets
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Duchy of Cornwall		#3 million UKpounds/year
Duchy of Lancaster		Not mentioned
Civil List (above)

Personal Property
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Forbes magazine estimates her personal wealth at #7 billion UK pounds

Land				52,000 acres
Jewellery			#40 million UKpounds worth
Sandringham House		#75 million UKpounds market value
Balmoral Castle			#40 million UKpounds market value
Investment Portfolio		#500 million UKpounds (estimated)	


Comments from the program.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Queen pays absolutely *NO* tax whatsoever. The estimate was this had
saved her #20 million UKpounds this year. Queen Victoria payed all her
due taxes. George V and George VI did secret deals with the Chancellor
and the result was over about 20-30 years, the Queen ended up tax free.

Foreign tourists who come to the UK spend #3 billion UKpounds/year. This
was pushed as an argument for keeping the Royal Family. Is there any
proof for this ??? No !! In 1975 a survey of tourist said only 1% came
mainly because of the Royal Family. In 1985 None said they came because
of them. The 1985 crowd when asked if they would come anyway. All said
yes.

Wills of the Queen are private. *ALL* others arer public property and
can be scruitinised by anyone that wants a gawk at them.

Investments of the Queen are private. Everyone elses investment details
are recorded at Companies House in London. This was because of a special
clause inserted in the 1953 Investments Act.

The reason the Ministry of Defence pays for the Royal Yacht and the
Royal Flight is that they can be used in time of war. The Royal Yacht
has **never** went to war simce it was built. In the Falklands it was
claimed it used the 'wrong type of fuel'.

The same fuel as HMS Hermes, the aircraft carrier that fought, uses ........

Finally. Spain's Royal family, though smaller and not so prominant
round the world. King Jaun Carlos gets #4 million from the Spanish
State, has no private income, payes all his own bills and taxes.


Comments anyone .........

Neil The Treasonable
From: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Independent
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:30:13 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <l9l7coINNd2b@sal-sun32.usc.edu> draskovi@usc.edu (Zoran Draskovic) writes:
>
>The INDEPENDENT
>22.August 1992.
>Published in London
>
>
>         MUSLIMS 'SLAUGHTER THEIR OWN PEOPLE'
>
>--- Bosnia bread queue massacre was propaganda ploy, UN told ----
>From
>Leonard Doyle in New York
>
>  United Nations officials and senior Western military officers believe
>some of the worst recent killings in Sarajevo, including the massacre
[deleted]

This isn't culture, this is politics. And not that British for a start.

Get Lost !!

Neil

P.S. Weren't you the cross post to soc.culture.everything.under.the.sun
     guy ????
From: Michael.Wheeley@mixcom.mixcom.com (Michael.Wheeley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: royal family
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:27:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: mixcom.1992Aug26.232733.21623
Distribution: usa
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.

In <1992Aug26.174427.14468@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse) writes:

>The Crown Jewels do not belong to the monarchy. They belong
>to the British government.
>-- 

Actually they belong to the state of which the Queen is the head.
-- 
Michael.Wheeley@mixcom.mixcom.com
Milwaukee Wisconsin. (Where's The Bubbler??)
Brit's across America.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Saturday, 29 Aug 1992 16:38:58 EDT
From: <IO20402@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: The Celtic Cross

Please, could someone tell me the origins of the Celtic Cross, I have worn one
for some time, and I am fed up with people continually asking me if I am
Catholic. Does the cross have religious ties? Or is it just a pagan symbol?

      Thank you,
              Tak Car loves,
                     Kerry
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british