HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: JZeevi%users%swri03@D26VS046A.CCF.SwRI.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: re: Keepers/Laws
Date: 6 Nov 1992 09:04:42 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Forwarded to:      SMTP [rec-sport-soccer@cs.utexas.edu]
          cc:      
Comments by:       JZeevi@users@swri03

   -------------------------- [Original Message] -------------------------      
+-------------------------------+
|  James Drogos                 |
|  fejd@midway.uchicago.edu     |
+-------------------------------+                                
 asks :
--------------------------------
Question one, should this statement be read "...except when he  (a) is
holding the ball; AND (b) is obstructing an opponent; AND (c) has passed 
outside his goal-area." Meaning all three conditions must be met or should
OR be subsituted for AND, in which case he may be charged if he meets any
one of the three criteria. If it is the case that you use OR instead of 
AND, and the keeper is standing with the ball in his hands this would mean 
he can be legally charged. Right? 
--------------------------------

ANS : OR is the current usage by referees and the instructional program.
      
--------------------------------
Question two, is that if the keeper can be charged legally while holding
the ball, dose this conflict with Law Xll IBD 9. 
--------------------------------

ANS : No. Charging is not Obstructing.

---------------------------------
Question three, is what is considered possession by the keeper?
---------------------------------

ANS : This varies, as it is the judgement of the referee. Harris and Harris, 
while an excellent source, is a little bit dated in it's material and tends 
to focus primarilly on the college game. Most referees will consider 
possession as when the keeper gains full control of the ball. At the upper 
levels, having one's hand on the ball may not be possession, while in the U12 
it may be. This is a tricky one - there seems to be a fairly even 
interpretation - the key being that the keeper possesses the ball when no one 
else can safely play it.

Also, in your question to referred to contact with the arms as being control 
of the ball - FIFA added this definition to clarify what was meant by 
possession in the case of parrying - that is, any contact with the arms or 
hands (since handling includes the entire arm....)

	Josef
	jzeevi@swri.edu

p.s. Good questions!!
From: mcsbc2gw@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: YOU ARE THE REF, MR MASON
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:39:27 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

All I can say is there must be some kind of unwritten code in the
referee handbook which says :
Rangers and Celtic : Rule Book 1a
All other teams in scotland : Rule Book 1b

Let me demonstrate ......

A man is through on the goal, the last man brings him down,
he is sent off and a penalty awarded.

Last night,

Paddy Connolly turns Gillespie and co., inside out and is then
flattened by one of the Celtic back four in full view of everyone.

Decision :
No foul, continue.

two :
a referee must decided whether the play is in favour of the attacking
team, before awarding a free-kick if a serious foul is committed.

Last night,

Paddy Connolly runs through onto a great ball by Mike O'Neill,
the ref pulls play back to a spot inside the United half where O'Neill
had, had his jersey pulled.
Serious foul?, I think not.

three :

Two United attackers run past the Celtic defence chasing a pass by
the United sweeper. 

Decision :
Offside.

Law states : Offside shall be given only if a player from the attacking team
has no defender between himself and the goalkeeper and recieves a 
forward pass from one of his own team.

Strange eh?

It is easy to get undeserved draws and suspect wins when the officals
give the decisions your way everytime your defence is in trouble.
No wonder Rangers have won all the domestic trophies. 

This is definatly a case of SFA and Scottish League bias. It is bad enough
when your resources are stretched due to suspensions and injuries
it is quite another when the re-constituted team has to try and beat
the officals as well.

Rangers only won 4-0 at Tannadice in the League because United didn't
have Duncan Ferguson and Victor Ferreyra to choose due to the usual
referees' fixing of games before the danger games arise. When United had
Ferreyra they more than matched the Gers in the Skol Cup Quarter Final
at Tannadice, they needed extra time to beat us.

Celtic are also guilty of receiving decisions which their play hardly 
merited. Last night United should have been 3 up before Nicholas even
warmed up for the second half but Two penalties were not given.

I stand by for a West Coast barage for criticism but if someone doesn't
do something soon, competitive football will be lost to this country for
good.

O Yes, a fixture list of Rangers v Celtic then Celtic v Rangers followed
by Rangers v Celtic, week in week out is an attractive money spinning
fixture, but if decisions are going to be biased and the
Masons and the Lodge men going to be running the game here like the
MAFIA do in Italy and the Anfield Board in England then competitive

				FAIR

matches will be lost forever.

We are United in this

Arabian footie fanatic.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: ulick@bernini.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: The beloved get beaten
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:13:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.112851.25831@cs.nott.ac.uk> tex@cs.nott.ac.uk (Timothy Emanuel) writes:
>
>I am so fed up of hearing the Chelsea NF argument about this. Is there ANY
>proof that other than Liverpool fans were involved in the Heysel tragedy?

No.  But there were a lot of other English fans involved in other incidents.
Remember English fans were not banned for Heysel alone.  It was the final 
act, and was very surprising because before this Liverpool fans had a much
better reputation than other English fans.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford,               +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+          Liverpool...never walk alone     +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: louis@aie.nl (Louis Kossen)
Subject: Re: English Soccer
Organization: AI Engineering BV, Amsterdam, Netherlands
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:36:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.122638.25124@fwi.uva.nl> bronstri@fwi.uva.nl (Mischa Bronstring) writes:
>louis@aie.nl (Louis Kossen) writes:
>
>>I can understand that as well. I already made a reply on this stupid 
>>posting. The most worse of all is that they don't even have the guts
>>to reply on the reactions they have caused on the net. The asses.
>
>>Louis Kossen
>
>   Lesson 1:
>
>   English soccer sucks.
>
>   Lesson 2: 
>
>   We don't
>
>   Lesson 3:
>
>   The Dutch national team is the best in the world 
>
>   Lesson 4:
>
>   Germans are dirty, not Dutchmen. We don't need it...
>
>   Lesson 5:
>
>   We still laugh at Blackburn and all those shit.
>
>   Suggestion: 
>
>   Start rec.sport.soccer.brittish
>
>Sidney & Mischa
>
>PS: Get a life!

Thanks a lot. A very cheap way of posting. Most people don't need 
your typical dutch football fan posting on the net. Dirty germans,
Sucking English football and we are the best of the world. Your
posting is in the same style as the postings of that ass from australia. 

BTW, who do you expect to post in the group rec.sport.soccer.briTTish?

Louis
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: 074SPOCK@Witsvma.wits.ac.za
Subject: Re: Villa vs Man Utd
Organization: Wits University
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 17:08:25 RSA

In article <1318@ozz.oasis.icl.co.uk>
dvp@getafix (Dave Parry) writes:
 
>
>am5q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andy Yin Meau) writes:
>>
>> This weekend Manchester United is playing Aston Villa away.  Does anyone
>> know what the odds are that Manchester United will win?
>
>What about the odds on them scoring a goal? If it's better than 5-1, I'm
>having some of that!
>
 
When United is least expected to perform, they do the exact opposite.
People are writing them off against Villa but I think they are in for
a surprise. Villa defence, better be on your toes, you are in for a
shocker !
From: mcscs1gw@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Old Firm Fans
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:29:38 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <92311.131338SHUGHES@ESTEC.BITNET>, SHUGHES@ESTEC.BITNET writes:
> Can any of you kind lads tell me if the Old Firm game is broadcasted on any
> short wave radio station?
> thanks in advance..Steve Hughes
> P.S Any team news?

Try the BBC World Service
From: S947607@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: European Soccer Summary
Date: 6 Nov 1992 12:21:25 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


> Countries Represented
> ---------------------

> Russia                  3       C1+  +2C3
                                  C1+C2+C3 !!!

> Portugal                2       C1+C2+
                                  C1+  +C3 !!!

> Three countries still have a possiblity to win all three cups:
>         Belgium, Italy, Holland.

How about Russia (see above) ??? (Russia is leading in the coefficients table,
is one of the best in Europe now !!!)

> Belgium had 4 teams in this round and passed all 4.

Belgium had 5 !

>Turkey and Greece have put in a club, not very often we see them at this stage
> of the competition.

I disagree. Last year Galatasaray got to EC2 quarterfinals, and Panathinaikos
reached EC1 quarterfinals, too.
From: dvlkhh@cs.umu.se
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Kharin
Date: 8 Nov 1992 04:02:52 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

    I heard this shocking news on France Inter yesterday.
Dmitrij Kharin, goalie of CSKA Moscow and playing very well for CIS 
in Euro92, has been transferred to an English team. The timing of this
transfer is really strange since CSKA have reached the final eight in the 
Champions' Cup.

Kent
-- 
+---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
| Kent Hedlundh             | Les Girondins pour une place Europeene en 1993! |
| Dept. of Computer Science | France and Sweden for the WC'94!                |
| University of Umea        | All the best for my friends teams!              |
| S-90187 UMEA     SWEDEN   | E-Mail: dvlkhh@cs.umu.se     IP: 130.239.96.17  |
+---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
               "It's always good to talk soccer!" - Marco Petroni
From: climiepd@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Delbert ( Peter Climie ))
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer,eduni.football
Subject: Re: The Bright Side of Life ?....
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:27:18 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

scottj@spider.co.uk (Scott Jackson) writes:
>In article <27941@castle.ed.ac.uk> eftv20@castle.ed.ac.uk (G C Stewart) writes:
>>
>>     Revised league forecast,
>>
>>1. Rangers   2. Celtic   3. Aberdeen   4. Hearts     
>>5. Dundee U  6. Hibernian 7. St Johnstone  8. Falkirk
>>9. Partick T 10. Dundee 11. Motherwell 12. Aidrie

>Easy to change now isn't it. What has happened to "the best side in Scotland"?
>It's only November yet you realise the futility of Celtic's title challenge.

How on earth can you put Partick Thistle 9th ! ! ! ?

Do you think Celtic might win on our next encounter ? Think again!
If you have been watching Thistle playing this season you must admit they 
will do better than that. They are still improving too.
We are only 2 points behind Celtic, and that wont last long :-)
-- 
 ___________
/| o       /|    O    GOOOOOOAAAAAAL! PARTICK THISTLE ROMP HOME!
\|_______ / |   -|-
 |          |   /|    GEORGE SHAW SCORES ANOTHER!   (DELBERT-Glasgow Uni)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: harin@iti.gov.sg (Harinderpal Singh)
Subject: Asian Cup Results
Organization: Information Technology Institute, National Computer Board, Singapore.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 04:46:28 GMT

Semi-Finals
06 Nov    Japan     3-2  China
          S Arabia  2-0  UAE

Final
08 Nov    S Arabia   -   Japan


Cheers,
	Harin
	~~~~~
-- 
Harinderpal Singh Grewal                                     harin@iti.gov.sg
National Computer Board, Singapore                     harinder@itivax.bitnet
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I  P  S  W  I  C  H     T  O  W  N     F  O  O  T  B  A  L  L     C  L  U  B
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: rmair@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ross Mair)
Subject: Re: PETER BEARDSLEY & EVERTON
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 12:16:15 GMT

ahmadt@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Tariq N Ahmad) writes:

<<Lots of good stuff deleted>>

>happened ??? Well, Spurs ended up undeservedly winning 2-1. If Kendall
>can buy an out-and-out striker (although I feel that Cottee could produce
>the goods if given a long enough run in the team) and a top-quality
>defender, Everton could really go places. Until then, I think they'll

Hey - great to hear someone from NW England actually agrees with me
all the way out here in Oz!!

I posted a long one on this a few days back...
But given the massive net.lag from my other site - it should be along soon.

Ross
***********************************************************
Ignore the from line: I'm really at rwm@stan.xx.swin.oz.au
From: efsv09@castle.ed.ac.uk (J Shaw)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Lets all go to IBROX!
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:30:40 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

mcsbc2gw@dct.ac.uk writes:
es


>	If money buys the best team, why did you lose to a crap side like
>Dundee then???????????????????????????????????????
>4 million bucks to play with?, Easy, Get yourself a decent Pitch or Groundsman

>Everytime I'm at Ibrox it looks like a ploughed field!!! At least playing the
>ariel game is second nature to the Gers anyway!!!
>Come to Tannadice Packed full with Arabs, with a great playing surface, and try
>and play football the next time. Who knows it could open up a whole new
>experience for you!!!!!!
>Arab

Why did Dundee Utd lose to a crap side like Dundee?? And why did they
get a 4-0 gubbing of Rangers at Tannadice. I don't know the last time
you were at Ibrox, but next time try putting glasses on. As for Walter
Smith being a crap manager who has changed nothing, just look at the
team that is now playing, and you will find a fair number of Smith
signings. And as for the style they play in you won't get too many
Rangers fans complaining. As for tannadice being full of arabs I can't
remember the last time.

                                  James

PS  I would particularly like to hear Jimmy Greaves comparing the merits
of English and Scottish goalkeepers now.
From: bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: English Fitba' Crisis
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:31:32 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bnsgs179.bnr.co.uk

In article <1992Nov05.171129.8581@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> bigmac@nmr.ion.bpmf.ac.uk writes:
>In article 3963@spider.co.uk, scottj@spider.co.uk (Scott Jackson) writes:
>>The so called "best league in the World" can't produce teams that get past
>>the second round of European competitions. Not one of their teams competing
>>last night won a game, and they were all at home. Of course Leeds Utd. were
>>beaten by the British Champions, who of course come from Scotland. Liverpool,
>>well a 2-0 defeat at home does little for Souness and Sheffield Wednesday,
>>well they're Gladys anyway so no excuses there. However, this so called
>>"Premier League" consists of very average teams, most of which would struggle
>>in the Scottish league.
>>
>>"we're not in the habit of losing in our own midden" - Howard Wilkinson
>>
>>Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Everton all tried but failed. We didn't!
>>
>	I seem to remember Arsenal putting Leeds out of the FA Cup
>	a couple of years ago at the ?third? attempt...2-1 at Elland
>	Rd. Does that not count Scott?

Well if you want to back two seasons, then Spurs also beat Leeds at Elland
Road, 2-0 as a matter of fact. Of course I don't suppose Scott intended to
go back more than a few months.

Who is it, Scott, that actually describes the FA Premier League as "the
best league in the world"? You bandy the phrase about regularly enough,
but have neglected to tell us who said/says it. I can't see how anyone
could not rate the Italian League as the best, and I'm sure that'd be
the majority opinion.

-- 
Bruce Munro.  <B.Munro@bnr.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!uknet!bnruk!B.Munro
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. | Note the change
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174   | of e-mail address.
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
From: jwk@sequent.com (John "Just Say Noe" Kramer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: CALLING KEEPERS
Keywords: soccer
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:09:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov5.190927.20778
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.173708.17899@syma.sussex.ac.uk> janm@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jan Metzger) writes:
>In the league I play in there is a ref. who is constantly is awarding indirect
>free kicks against me for shouting "keeper's" to loudly.(I'm a GOALKEEPER)
>He says it puts the strikers off and is against the rules !  He claims I
>should call for the ball but not to loudly, I supposedly call for it to
>aggresively.  Well what I am I supposed to do when I'm in the middle of 3
>strikers, two defenders and everybody wants that ball? Say "please could I
>have that ball".  I do admit that I make my call loudly but I don't scream.
>
>Is there some rule that he can apply against me in such a case ?
>
>In the following case with the same ref. I'm quite sure that there is no such
>rule but if somebody can prove me wrong I'll find it every interesting:
>
>The ball is out of play, the other team is going to take a corner, somebody is
>just going to fetch the ball.  I start yelling encouragement and instructions
>to my defense in German.  The league I play in is in the south of England.  I
>got a yellow card and the club the subsiquent fine.  What in the world was
>that for, there is no way he could have known that nobody in my team
>understood Germany, and in the heat of the moment I was forgetting which
>language I was speaking in.  He actually said to me : that's how you might
>play on the continent but here in England we play proper soccer and you have
>to learn to behave yourselve.  I've been here a year now it does seem to me
>that goalkeepers tell their players who's unmarked and the player you're
>yelling instructions to is at the half-way line you have to raise your voice a
>little bit.

I'm not sure on the technical rules but I suspect the referee has to use
his own discretion in these areas. If you are doing to to lessen the risk
of injury then fine. I suspect if you did this when you had no chance of
getting the ball then it should be interpreted as interference. In all the
years I played in Britain I never saw a keeper penalised for this. Sounds
like your ref is a bit of prat (hey, there's a novelty :-). As for the
second incident, sounds like the ref is a bit xenophobic! 

Good luck!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: kgamble@OES.ORST.EDU (Kevin Gamble)
Subject: Women's NCAA Update
Organization: Oregon Extension Service, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Or.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:05:46 GMT

Here's an update on the NCAA women's tourney. I hope someone
else can post as to what happened in the Northeast and on the
West coast.

William and Mary (#9) defeated NC State (#12) 1-0 in what had to
be one of the most boring games of the year. NC State, minus
forwards Kim Yankowski (red card in ACC tourney) and Katherine
Zabrowski (playing in the European championships), could only
muster two shots on goal. William and Mary had 11 shots. The
sole goal of the game came on an indirect penalty kick.

Duke advanced by defeating SMU 1-0.

Duke plays Virginia next weekend while William and Mary has
the opportunity to share the field with UNC. 

Kevin Gamble (kgamble@ces.ncsu.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: irae@jelly.research.canon.oz.au (Ian Rae)
Subject: Re: Are there any Arabs out there?
Reply-To: irae@research.canon.oz.au
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:51:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.091307.1085@dct.ac.uk> mcsbc2gw@dct.ac.uk writes:
> 
> Also  can  anyone come up  with a suitable way to
> celebrate  the  10th anniversary of Uniteds' 1982-83
> title winning squad

Aaaargh. Don't remind me.
How about Dundee stuffing you on the 21st?

> 
> Just to refresh your memory the usual line-up was
With dittys filled in to jog your memory..
> 
> Hamish McAlpine (goalie)
Loved his ray Clemence impersonations. Generally accompanied by  
non-complinemtray references to his divorce.
> Derek Stark(right-back)
> Maurice Malpas(left-back)
Germany's equal top scorer in Euro '92. Better known as Maurice BackPass.
> Richard Gough(centre defence)
Played for Spurs. Nuff said.
> Paul Hegarty(centre defence)
"Hegarty. Cheat, cheat cheat"
> Dave Narey(part-time defender and midfield dynamo)
Always remember that glorious goal in Spain '82. Was that when the famous song  
"We hate Jimmy Hill, he's a p**f" started? I believe he insulted Big Dave's  
shot!
> Ralph Milne(Right winger and rum and coke man!)
"Milne is a Villan"
> Eammon Bannon(Midfield Schemer! and dodgy haircut!)
He just wanted to have a hair cut like the managers.
> Davie Dodds(Fantastic Striker!)
Thought John Hurt did a great job playing Davie in that movie!
Now motivates the Huns, by promising self portraits if they fail.
> Paul Sturrock(Luggy!)
> Billy Kirkwood(what a man, what a game!)
> John Holt(subbie, utility man!)
> 
> Manager : J McLean  Assistant Manager : W Smith(now
> Rangers)
> 
> Your memories of 14th May 1983 at Dens Park would also be
> appreciated
> :- (United 2 Dundee 1)
> 
> United scored through Milne, Bannon(pen.)
> Dundee scored through Ferguson.

My main memory was at the end of the game, as both the Arabs made their way for  
the exit (bloody lucky that it didn't piss down on you) The Dundee fans stayed  
behined to applaud what was a successful season (by loosing Dundee missed out  
on EUFA I think). That was when we had a good manager (Don MacKay) before we  
became a training camp for the sheep shaggers.
Unfortunately this display of loyal support (after all we had just witnessed  
out worst nightmare) was mis-interpreted as Dundee fans congratulating the  
Arabs on their one-off fluke!

Oh, the other thing I remember is that United have never won an houour away  
from Dens!

Any Hearts fans out there want to talk about the last game of the season 1986??
Unbelievable to think that Albert Kidd is now in Adelaide!

Ian

--
Ian Rae                                      | irae@research.canon.oz.au 
Canon Information Systems Research Australia | Phone +61-2-805-2901 
PO Box 313 NORTH RYDE NSW 2113               | Fax   +61-2-805-2929