HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:21:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep28.172127.19699
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

In article <1686DC147.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu> CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.225445.12590@adobe.com>
> 
>>It is not
>>acceptable for dogs to bite children no matter who is at fault and the
>>very idea that a dog owner would hold a child at fault is probably
>>why broad restrictions on dogs are considered and implemented.
> 
>Does this include the 9 year old that broke into my house, and stole
>$4,000 worth of my property?  I think not!


This is a very interesting point, and one I had hoped would come up in
regards to dogs and protection.  Chris and a few other have stated that
they want their dogs to bite, because it provides protection for
themselves and their property.

I look at things a bit differently and I wonder how others on the net
feel.  Chris's above statement makes me nervous.  What if a dog really
lays into a kid?  Do we own anything that's worth perhaps permanently
hurting a child ('cause no matter how you cut it, a nine year old is a
child).  Are stereos and tvs more valuable than people?  What if a
neighbor kid just hops a fence to retrieve a ball?  What if a biter ever
accidently gets out?  Homeowners insurance and an alarm system seem
cheaper and more reliable than using a biting dog. 

Another thing that concerns me, is my dog's safety.  I don't know if this
happens very often (maybe y'all on the net know more), but I am very
worried that my dog would be hurt or killed trying to defend my property.
I would much prefer that my dog bark her head off and then happily show a
thief where the good silver is.  Sterling in replaceable, my dog is not! 

I understand worrying about personal protection, especially if you are a
woman.  Again, I would prefer a dog that barks his head off if a stranger
is near.  This would give me time to get my dog and myself out the
window.  Anyone who is sick enough to break into my house to hurt me,
would not hesitate to hurt my dog.  Again, learning to protect yourself
through self-defense courses would seem more pratical.  Afterall, you
might not have the dog with you when the attack comes.

A couple of people have stated that one of the main reasons to have a dog
is for protection.  My main reason for having a dog is love and
companionship.  I see it as my job to protect my dog, not visa versa.

Your thoughts?

-Carol
From: presley@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Joe Presley)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: NJ - AWTA Sanctioned Den Trial 10/25/92 10:00 AM
Summary: contact chairperson, not me, for more info
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:28:13 GMT
Distribution: nj,pa,ny,de
Organization: AT&T

There will be an American Working Terrier Association Sanctioned Den
Trial on October 25 at Apple Hill Farm, 59 Clover Hill Road, Flemington,
NJ.  The event is sponsored by the Dachshund Club of New Jersey.
Spectators are welcome, though only dogs registered allowed on grounds.

Breeds eligible are Australian, Bedlington, Border, Cairn, Dandie
Dinmont, Fox, Lakeland, Norwich, Norfolk, Scottish, Sealyham, Skye,
Welsh and West Highland White terriers, Dachshunds, Jack Russell
Terriers, Jadgterriers and Patterdales.

Entry fee is $8 if received by 10/20, or $10 after that.  

Prizes offered:
  Novice classes	Ribbons for 1st to 4th place and ceramic mug
			for 1st place (score over 50).
  Open class		Certificate of Gameness, ribbon and mug for all
			qualifiers.  To be entered in this class, dog
			must have either scored 100% in Novice or
			worked to ground in a natural earth.
  Certificate class	Ribbon to Best in each Breed.  For dogs who
			have already earned a Certificate of Gameness.

For more information, contact Carrie Hamilton at (908)782-4724 or -4286.
-- 
	Joe Presley
	j.h.presley@att.com
From: Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Dog & Protection
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:11:10 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Chris Barnes writes:
> Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop) writes:
> >behaviour in people, and that's what cues them to be protective. A person
> >coming into your yard to get a ball moves differently from a person intent
> on
> >sneaking in and robbing you and the dog will pick up on this right
> >away...it's not surprsing since dog language consists so much of body
> >language.
>
> You are both making the assumption that it is OK for a kid to come
> into my yard for any reason.  If you want to make that assumption,
> then you are welcome to.  But it's not OK for me.  That's why I have a
> chain link fence (with a locked gate) around my yard (note that this
> eliminates the "toddler" coming in my yard).  And if a kid big enough
> to climb a fence is dumb enough to climb in anyway with my 2 dogs
> barking their heads off at him, then HE DESERVES TO GET BIT!  PERIOD.


Hmmm. I wasn't assuming anything about your yard, I was discussing dog
behaviour, but since you mention it:  I agree that a secure yard is a
necessity for a dog that will be left in it unsupervised, both for the safety
of the dog and for a child that might otherwise wander in. I also agree that
a kid who climbs such a fence is pretty dumb and that he has no right to be
in the yard, but I don't think it follows that he DESERVES to 'get bit'. I
think that's a rather harsh view of things...do you dislike people that much?
It sure is a good thing that you've never made a dumb mistake in your life.

I don't like people coming onto my property uninvited either, but from time
to time, for one reason or another, in spite of whatever precautious you take
these things happen. Certainly the person deserves to be barked at and warned
away, frightened off maybe, but the idea that a person with no 'bad'
intentions (and unfortunately also no common sense) deserves to be shredded
is somewhat sickening.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca    I cried because I had no shoes
or:      a4080@mindlink.bc.ca         Until I met a man who had no feet.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *                          - ???
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: tjio@venice.sedd.trw.com (Lee Tjio)
Subject: Re: STOP USING BORAX AGAINST FLEAS!
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:13:21 GMT

Warnings like the one shown above always intrigue me.  What amount is
too much?  Is Pytherine safe?  How about if we drink a teaspoon of it ...
or a tablespoon ... or is it safe by the glass?  How about Sevin?  Is
1 ounce safe?  Given the choices available today, what is safer?  And
at what amount?  Inquiry minds want to know.
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Pet Peeves (Was: loose dogs)
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:31:54 GMT
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine

In <1992Sep30.195724.2915@megatek.com> fritzz@bud.megatek.uucp (Friedrich Knauss) writes:

>In article <1992Sep29.194058.11269@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
>vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff) writes:
>>[strangers have problems iding PWC]
>>
>>No one has EVER asked me if she was a mix, though, the question is always
>>"what kind of dog is that?".  She must just exude class....  ;-)

>Hmmm, that's the same question I get too, except that Ryfo _is_ a
>mutt. This question comes from people in my obedience clubs who
>show dogs as well, sao it can't be ignorance. I guess it must
>be that class exuding thing...

Well, I always ask "What kind of dog is that," even when I think it's
a mix.  You might also be running into polite people.

Nothing wrong with mutts, though.  But some people get bent out of
shape when you ask them what kind of mix it is, and I prefer to avoid
that.

--Cindy


--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Terrell's Chocolate Deduction--Hershe (Labrador Retriever)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all nine parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.

In loving memory of Betsy: 4-10-92 to 8-19-92...
From: llmacdon@orion.oac.uci.edu (Linda Macdonald)
Subject: Carpet Cleaners
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:22:12 GMT

Some time back a few people posted the names of products that could
be used to remove (hopefully) the smell of dog urine from carpets.  I
have a patterned carpet, so it doesn't show stains, but I can still
detect the odor on occasion.  If someone could e-mail me the name
of the product, I would appreciate it very much.

Linda Mac (llmacdon@uci.edu)
From: davek@informix.com (David Kosenko)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:12:40 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

Jon Krueger writes:
>> The dogs that are ``given up'' at around age two to the shelter,
>> because ``they can't keep them,'' are the dogs that have finally
>> become behavior problems.  What they wanted was a puppy, and it grew
>> up and ceased to be cute.
>
>Some are.  Sure.  Owner didn't train.  Owner didn't understand his
>commitment or responsibilities.  Owner didn't have a clue.  Happens
>all the time.
>
>But other reasons common too: owner had to move, owner died, owner in
>jail, owner's girlfriend didn't like dog, owner has new baby and "no
>time for dog now", owner got tired of dog, owner got new furniture,
>landlord discovered dog (dogs weren't permitted in apt but owner got
>dog anyway, now no one to take dog).


On this note, I was a little put off by a posting recently by some fellow
looking for two dogs (and let me say that I do not intend this to be a
flame of that gentleman - his intentions may well be excellent - but
his posting was somewhat vague and some of the wording lead me to
wonder).  He said something along the lines of "we are two students
who'd like some dogs, and now is a good time because we don't have
girlfriends."  I couldn't help but think "what happens when/if they *do*
get girlfriends - will they have time for their dogs?  What happens
when they graduate?  Will they be able to keep them?"

I agree with the person who has, in their .sig, something to the effect
that a pet is for life (not for 'while it's convenient').

Dave
-- 
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet.
						-E. Saliers
From: emm@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ellen.m.mcsorley)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: re: Problem with butterflies.....
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:30:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T


My best advice is "have fun!"  My Newfoundland, Sophie, did
HORRIBLY at her first obedience trial, which was of course at
the Newfoundland National dog show with a million Newf owners
and her breeder looking on!!

She did OK with the on leash stuff and this was a VERY EASY
judge.  If she did the recall at all she would have qualified
but she just SAT.  For the off leash heel she heeled perfectly -
with the judge!!

You could hear the moans from people around the ring who probably
felt embarassed for me.  At the end of the heel off leash she was
so far away from me (mind you, "I" never missed a step and did
just what the judge said to do!), that I looked at her, she looked
at me and I said "Would you like to join me, dear?" People went hysterical!
And of course she trotted over with tail held high!!

For the recall, I called her once (nothing) twice (nothing) and then
got on my knees, spread my arms and said "Sophie, PLEASE come!"  THEN
of course she trotted right to me, amidst a thunder of applause.

Yeah, we blew it to pieces but over the next two days at least
seven people came up to me and said they really liked the way I
handled myself in the ring AND gave me advice and tips I didn't know
(like, you can say FLUFFY, HEEL again if Fluffy isn't with you, and
 not get a zero.)  The judge also commented on what a sweet dog
Sophie was (nice that he didn't say what a clutze she was!)

NOW, don't get nervous after reading this post!  BUT, do try to keep
a smile on your face and not take it so seriously that you don't enjoy
yourself.  It's fun, even when they screw up!

GOOD LUCK and let us know how it goes!!

Ellen (and Sophie and Arnie)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: denise@pprg.eece.unm.edu (Denise J. Richards)
Subject: Re: Pet Population Legislation
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 17:48:11 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <23813@alice.att.com> rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin) writes:
>
>
>Jon Hrueger writes:
>>What happened to unwanted dogs before there were shelters?
>
>Well, there were fewer of them, because the owners kept them longer.
>
>Those that were strays, drop-offs, wandered around until somebody
>took them in, or until they got run over.  Have you noticed that
>you almost never see a run-over dog nowadays?  Lots of raccoons,
>no dogs.
>
>Strays are pretty uncommon nowadays.  I've taken a few in and
>trained them, to find them homes.  It's very easy, you should try it.
>

Come to New Mexico there are stray un-neutered dogs all over the place.
And dead dogs along side the road all the time...

I am not the above - I am the below...

--Marsha
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     boggs@agps.lanl.gov (505) 665-6606
Los Alamos National Laboratory, P.O. Box 1663  MS J488  Los Alamos, NM 87545
~
From: rhh@alice.att.com (r hardin)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: pitbulls
Summary: books
Date: 4 Oct 92 13:14:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23793
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



Did you know Rome was founded by a pitbull?  Livy didn't know
anything about animals.

There's much in praise of the wonderful pitbull in Vicki Hearne's
Adams' Task (1986 Knopf), and in Bandit (1991 Harper-Collins)
with references to other books.
From: vib@fns-nc1.fns.com (Victor Bur)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Women in the Dog World
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:50:27 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu Network Switching

In article <1992Oct2.160702.3682@linus.mitre.org> bds@mbunix.mitre.org (Smith) writes:
>I've been wondering about something recently.  The local Weimaraner
>Club's board of directors and officers are all women.  And it seems
>that most of the people on this net are women (is this right?).

It sure looks like it.  Feel lonely?

>Since
>I've never been to a dog show of any kind, I was wondering if most
>dogs are shown by women,

Yes.  Basicaly, the dog sport belongs to women, except MAYBE (big question
mark) hunting trials.  Also, I have never seen protection work, but I
wouldn't be surprised a bit if women prevail there as well.  This has intrigued
me for a long time, but I did not find the answer.  Jack Volhard suggested
that the dog sport is not viewed as "macho" enough to attract males.  I think
it has more to do with male's lack of patiences and general trend to get
the result fast, - a concept that does not sit well with dogs.  Are women
more suitable to work with animals (in general) because of maternal (sp?)
instinct?  It would be interesting to hear woman's opinion on the subject.

> and if most judges are women?

Nope.  In my experience - surprise, surprise! - more judges are males.
That is very understandable: why bother with training your own dog when you
can exhibit your dominant behavor by bossing women in the ring? :-)


>Similarly, are
>most breed clubs predominantly women?  There's nothing more than
>curiosity to this, and I was just wondering.
>
>Barry


More comments, please!

Best regards.
Victor
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: hecht@hsi.com (Alice Hecht)
Subject: Training a dog to be more wary of strangers
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, CT
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:54:46 GMT


Hi,
I have an adorable 5 month old male Boxer who LOVES everyone!  While I'm
glad he's friendly I also expected him to be a bit more protective of
his home and us.  Right now, he'd go home with the pizza delivery boy
if I let him.  Will he become more wary of stangers as he gets older or
is there something I can do to make him realize that he should be a bit
more protective and "watch dog" like?

Please send e-mail as I'm WAY behind in reading this newsgroup (although
I hope to catch up soon :-)

Thanks,
Alice
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: Dog & Protection
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:22:20 GMT

In article <16021@mindlink.bc.ca>
    Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop) writes:
 
>
>> I have had kids come into my yard to get a ball, frisbee whatever
>> without any problems. But I also know that if an honest to god intruder
>> came into my yard or home my dog would make mincemeat of him. A properly
>> raised and socialized dog knows the difference between a child who comes
>> into the yard and someone who wants to harm us.
>
>behaviour in people, and that's what cues them to be protective. A person
>coming into your yard to get a ball moves differently from a person intent on
>sneaking in and robbing you and the dog will pick up on this right
>away...it's not surprsing since dog language consists so much of body
>language.                                                              us dog
 
 
You are both making the assumption that it is OK for a kid to come
into my yard for any reason.  If you want to make that assumption,
then you are welcome to.  But it's not OK for me.  That's why I have a
chain link fence (with a locked gate) around my yard (note that this
eliminates the "toddler" coming in my yard).  And if a kid big enough
to climb a fence is dumb enough to climb in anyway with my 2 dogs
barking their heads off at him, then HE DESERVES TO GET BIT!  PERIOD.
 
      --------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |  Bow season started last week!
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  I get to give it a try this weekend...
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |
From: rick@thinker.thinker.com (Rick Yazwinski)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Cooling an overenthusiatic reception
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 10:20:41 EDT
Organization: Thinker Toys, High Tech. Consultants

vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff) writes:

> In article <1992Oct2.150328.8648@mdd.comm.mot.com> bradley@mdd.comm.mot.com (
> >In article <1992Oct1.215345.6538@linus.mitre.org> pdsmith.mitre.org (Pat Smi
> >>In article <1992Oct1.013651.16357@news.eng.convex.com>, oexmann@convex.com 
> >>> 
> >Stuff deleted on jumping problem.
> >>>
> 
> Lots of dogs regard a knee in the chest as a rough game, and come right back
> for more.  I've found grabbing the paws and holding until the dog whines
> (from wanting to get away, not from pain), then saying OFF! works better than
> kneeing....  (One dog that I kneed figured out that I couldn't knee her from
> the back....  :-)  )

I've, in truely problem cases, thrown the dog backwards off of me.  
Admitadly (sp?), this is extreme, but after one or two repititions the 
problem went away.
 
        Rick...


----------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Yazwinski | If you want to know about a dog, go to the dog.
Thinker Toys   | If you want an opinion, go to other humans.
               |------------------------------------------------
                                        rick@thinker.thinker.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Motivational Methods
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:59:34 GMT

r hardin writes:

> what makes sense to the dog involves a human commitment from
> you.  Once it makes sense to both of you, the dog's and your
> judgment grow, and that's part of the performance.

EAB doesn't concern itself with what "makes sense" to the organism.

> For dogs and horses and I guess Asian elephants, it's pretty easy
> to do because they come easily to understand forms of human domesticity.
> For other animals, who we call wild because they don't understand us
> as we are, things are harder.

EAB doesn't concern itself with whether the organism "understands us"
or "is domestic".

While you're citing "axioms" of EAB, why not take a little time
and learn the facts about it?

> An animal trainer who gets sustained results has to be a poet,
> not a scientist.

Please tell this to the Brelands.  And to the over 6000 animals of
38 species they trained with straight operant methods.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: gbelli@opal.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Dog show mystery series
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:25:14 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Sep29.134000.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, hckrus01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> In article <349@mindlink.bc.ca>, Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop) writes:
>> The following is reproduced without permission from the October 1992 Dog Fancy:
>> 
>> ***************
>> 
>> ...Borax is extremely toxic if swallowed or absorbed through the skin...never
>> to apply borax to dogs or cats and always to store it out of reach of animals
>> and children.
>>                         Susan Conant
>>                         Newton, Massachusetts
> 
> 
> My reply to Valaria's posting has nothing to do with Borax and fleas -- it's
> her citation of Susan Conant.  For any dog show/obedience/dog lover in general
> folks out there who are also mystery buffs, you might be interested to know
> that Susan Conant authors a line of mysteries (with titles like _Dead and
> Doggone_, _A New Leash on Death_, etc.) that feature dog writer/amateur
> detective Holly Winter and her Alaskan Malamutes.  A lot of the action focuses
> on the show/obedience set -- the books are a pretty entertaining read!
> 
>> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>> Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca    I cried because I had no shoes
>> or:      a4080@mindlink.bc.ca         Until I met a man who had no feet.
>> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*                          - ???
> 
> 
> Holly Kruse
This is an entertaining series, and as a plus to Bostonians, it is set in
the Boston/Cambridge area.  Reccommended.
GB
From: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: DOG Names!
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:34:07 GMT
Reply-To: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep25.203509.5686@linus.mitre.org>, kvt@willow.mitre.org writes:
>I am compiling a list of popular and unusual names
>that are suitable for dogs for my sister-in-law who
>is in the process of researching what kind of puppy
>to acquire.  Her biggest hang-up is naming the dog
>(I know silly, huh?).  So please send names to me
>at kvt@willow.mitre.org.

Could you please post the completed list?
thanx

************************************************************
* jane jackson and murphy b. lab, Am/Can CD, WC, CGC, TDI  *
* jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu                                *
*                                                          *
* standard disclaimer applies...                           *
************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Motivational Methods
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:11:29 GMT

r hardin writes:

> [EAB] isn't relevant to dog training, to horse training,
> or to cat training.

Please tell that to the dogs, cats, horses, rats, mice, guinea pigs,
monkeys, pigeons, humans, rabbits, ducks, etc., that have been trained
to criterion using strictly operant methods.

> there is an old axiom in behavioral
> research, ``Don't use cats.  They'll screw up the data.''

An old axiom I must have missed.  Speaking of old axioms, what does
"the rat is always right" mean?

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com