HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Multimedia?? 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:34:11 GMT

>>An MPC is a 386 with a sound board and CD-ROM that have interfaces to
>>work with MPC compliant windows programs.  That means if you buy an MPC
>>machine (theoretically) your sound board and CD-ROM should work with
>>all MPC software.  Nobody ever checks, but I've never heard of an
>>incompatibility. 
>
>I realize what an MPC machine is. I was questioning the fact that you
>mentioned it in the same context as an effective system for instructional
>delivery. For me, this is a non sequitur.

Care to back this up?  If you wanted to say it was an inappropriate
multimedia development system, then I would agree wholeheartedly.

But the titles are as good as CDTV titles (there is ALOT of overlap),
and are 100X more plentiful.  Plus, as a huge market, the number of
titles is only going to increase exponentially.

So why is this not an effect system for instrucionaly delivery, and
which Amiga do you think is better?
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 7 Jan 1993 21:28:28 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0HIuH.534@news.udel.edu> don@chopin.udel.edu (Donald R Lloyd) writes:
>     OK, I'll bite.  What's Terminus?

Ask Jack Radigan, it's his puppy.  :)

>     My big problem with Term is that it uses XPRZModem.library, which seems
>to start getting error messages at the slightest sign of another running
>task...

Umm, that's a problem of Term in both 2.4 and 2.4a, and NOBODY has a
clue as to where it's coming from.  I don't know if Olaf has found the
bug yet, but there are reports on seeing it on everything from 4000's
to the 500.

>     ProPage has ARexx, Saxon might, not sure.  I like PageStream, but 
>SoftLogik is going to have to pick up the pace a little to keep up with
>some of what Gold Disk has done with PPage lately.

Good to hear that there's still lots of competition in the market.

Greg

--
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From: devasoft@cup.portal.com (David Michael Alves)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 18:54:55 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan10.043322.7254@src4src.linet.org>
  <1993Jan10.163154.8716@ra.msstate.edu>
  <C0nMw8.326@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
  <1993Jan10.220842.23518@ra.msstate.edu>

>>>Good.  I hate being forced to buy a monitor with a system.  If the A4000
>>>had come with an A1960, I'd have sold the beast before unpacking it.
>>
>>With a PC you aren't forced to buy *ANYTHING*.  If you don't need
>>sound, you don't pay for it.  If you don't need NTSC (few do) you don't
>>pay for it.

>The Clone in question was a Gateway, which does come with a monitor.

Yes, but you don't have to buy the monitor if you choose not to.  My Zeos
also "came" packaged with a monitor, but I chose not to buy it so that I 
could get a NEC 4FG in its place.

David Alves
Devasoft - 408/927-9645
devasoft@cup.portal.com

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 1993 21:01:52 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <a3Xu03TVc72t00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> alan@xserver.uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger) writes:
>I am glad someone mentioned the clipboard.  The Mac has
>a "Put this stuff on the clipboard" and a "get stuff from
>the clipboard".  If the Amiga had supplied these simple
>intuitive interfaces, I would have used it instead of
>an application internal clipboard.  It may be that underneath
>the covers the Mac clipboard is complex but since day 1 there
>has been a simple application oriented interface.  

I like the new interface to the clipboard--the IFFParse.library.  With
it, you simply use functions to read, write, or scan through the iff
chunks, and it's a very simple thing now.  I've gotten a lot of use
out of IFFParse.library, and, though at first it was a bit confusing
due to my infamiliarity with the IFF format, it came quite naturally.
I don't think I could have written ClipManager if it hadn't been for
IFFParse, and though at first it did all of the viewing itself, now
DataTypes takes care of that too.

You'd be amazed how much easier using the clipboard becomes once
there's a way of dealing with it.  I tried to think of things people
would want to do--loading and saving IFF's to and from units, loading
and saving text files into FTXT chunks, viewing (now external, which
removed a LOT of headaches.  You have NO idea how hard listviews can
be when you're trying to make something look nice and formatted), and
there's even a little listview that gives you the "architecture" of
the IFF chunk.

Now if there were just some way of "notification" for which clips had
something IN them, I'd be happy.  I wanted some way of knowing which
units were "active", and had something in them, for a "jump" list of
active units.  The only method I knew was to open each clipboard unit,
and place a clipboard changehook in EACH.  I get notified when any
clipboard unit changes, and I alter the list.

It's not as nice as I'd like.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Mutimedia?? 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 03:21:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.011706.18236@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons) writes:
>What is "multispin"?

It's a technology wherein for everything but sound the CD-ROM spins at
twice the speed, and maintains half the access time and twice the data
rate.  Because of the audio standard, I think it slows down to audio CD
speeds when it has to play an audio track.

Some day the CDTV might get it....if they commission NEC to make their
drives, that is.  Being a PC user, I just pick and choose the drive I
want.  Right now, NEC is the best.
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Date: 7 Jan 1993 16:21:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

(Tim Ciceran) writes:
'>>	CORRECTION!  YOU might be able to get an Amiga 4000 for $2700, but 
'>>   that is not the absolute selling price.  Its $3200 without monitor around 
'>>   here, $3700 with A1960.  So the other persons prices may be quite accurate
'>>   I'm afraid.
'>
'>How is it that the dealers in your area are opting out of the power-up deal?
'>According to the post in .announce, the current promotion has the A4000
'>priced at $2699 U.S. and this includes ADPro and DPaint IV/AGA. 

	Yep, you're right.  Its now $2690 until March.  I had talked to a
   salesman the other day who said it was $3200, but the manager told me
   today that its now 2690 with the powerup deal.  One question I have is,
   why is it called a powerup deal when you don't have to previously own 
   an Amiga to powerup from?  Why not just lower the retail price instead.
   I hope CBM extends it past March.  I was thinking of getting an A1200
   with large HD, but right now I am only about $900 dollars away from being
   able to afford the A4000.  

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:52:39 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: cs1.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
: In article <1inccgINNqbh@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David Stuve) writes:
: >In article <C0K2p1.1HF@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
: >>In article <1ikbncINN6cb@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David
: >>Stuve) writes:
: >>
: >>   Here is what I would like to see:
: >
: >[good suggestions summarized]
: >
: >A word processor/database/drawing/spreadsheet/communications package?
: >How much would you be willing to pay for such a monster?

:    $170.  That's how much MicroSoft Works costs.  I still say that it should
: be packaged with high-end and mid-range Amigas, since Apple packages 
: Claris Works with many of their systems.
There are still 10 messages ahead of me in this thread that I haven't read,
but I'm going to jump on in and answer this now...  MS Works is a piece of
shit.  Lets focus on the Comm section, because that's what I'm using right
now.  The 60 column mode, which is the only usable one for me, is slower
than hell.  If I try to print something from pine (on the UNIX system) using
the ANSI printer codes, with MS Works set to ANSI emulation... well, suffice
it to say, the emulation is far from complete....  I could go on, but I've
said enough already...

I get it... you don't want good software... You just want stuff that works.
Oh, BTW, lest we forget, MS Works is character-based.  Much more difficult
(time-consuming, for any system) to develop for a GUI...

: ---
: | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
: --------------------------------------------------------------------
: "No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
: is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me

--
---------------------------------------------------------
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---

Millions of lemmings can't be wrong -- throw yourself off a cliff
Remember to always be a visionary, or someone will do it for you and beat you.

The best Disney girl?  Definitely Belle (BatB)

I hate hicks and farmer boys. I hate everything they stand for, especially the
part about putting food on my table. I can do without the food. I wish all
farmers would just die. I can live off of lawn clippings.  -- Dave Tiberio

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: A4000 Pricing
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 14:20:26 GMT

In article <1ikd7sINNil5@mercury.kingston.ac.uk> cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun) writes:
>Why does the Power Up only apply to the states.
>The Europe market is quite a big chunk for C= and yet we don't get
>any of these offers.

My guess is that the PowerUp is offered in the US because the market is next
to nothing in the US.  If the Amiga were a popular computer over here, there
would be no need to offer the PowerUp deals.  While the prices are indeed 
nice, there just aren't that many dealers left in many parts of this country.

But then again, if Commodore were popular, we'd have to deal with lots of
idiots who would have otherwise bought Clones or Macs, and that would not
be a good thing.  There are enough bitchers and whiners like MB around
right now, we don't need a bunch of CloneLemmings of MacHeads suddenly
buying Amigas.  Software would have to be written for idiots and Commodore
would probably have to disable the multitasking so as not to confuse the
poor fools.

>Is it C= UK just being greedy or just lazy??

They probably don't perceive a need for such a program.  Perhaps if people
in Britain begin buying Clones like the idiots in this country, Commodore
will offer such a program to you.  But I would not wish such a thing on any
country, we Americans have already screwed up personal computing for the
next 20 years due to our lemming-like behavior.

>Regards..
>
>Vlod
>-Amiga Advocate.
>----------------------------------------------
>Amiga - Anything else isn't worth considering
>----------------------------------------------

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky..cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Originator: eas3714@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:58:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.181707.25408@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
>: Poor handling of low-memory situations was a problem that people were
>: angry about in 1.3, and it's gone.
>
>Excuse me?  It's gone?  That's funny, considering that a low-memory condition
>has to be handled by the applications as well as the OS.  If an application
>doesn't check the value returned from the allocation call, it can easily crash
>the system.

Er,  If an application doesn't check result values, its gonna eventually
crash on almost ANY system.  VM is not meant as a buffer for poor
programming... 

-- 
"THAT is a DRY turtle.  That turtle is NOT moist!"
Ezra Story, a student at RIT, and
eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu, his trusty(?) mailing address.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:17:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.230059.4046@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>I'm not sure about system 7, but the double-click feature is 'broken'
>(to stay in your terminology) on the Mac as well. Try to open a document
>by double clicking on it when the program is already loaded into memory.
>A nice requester appears which tells you that "the program isn't found
>or is already loaded". You have to use the program's menu to load the
>file (and have to search for the directory first since the file requester
>is no AppWindow).

   That has been completely fixed under System 7.  Under system 7, no matter 
what program you are running, double-clicking the icon for a document with
the program for that document already running will always instruct that
program to load the document.  The requester you mentioned never appears 
under system 7, and the fix is retroactive to fix old programs as well as
new ones.  Nice.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re:  OS/2 vs Win NT
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:06:15 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Dec17.194937.5932@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.075604.10297@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>In article <71842@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>>>
>>>P.S. Tell Bill I have some 7-11 coupons I'm not using if he want them.
>>
>>Could you relate more of this?  I have heard of it, but it is too
>>stupid to beleive.
>>_Dan
>
>Ok, here we go. Now, the way I heard it may not be entirely acurate
>but you'll get the point well enough.
>
>Once upon a time the world's wealthiest bachelor wanted some ice cream.
>So he hopped in his zippy car of choice and zipped over to
>(insert store here). Upon ariving at the ice cream section he selected
>the flavor he wanted and proceded to pay for the ice cream. But here's
>the hang up : he had a cupon! But, alas he couldn't find it and proceeded
>to search for it. Meanwhile the line was getting very long and filled with
>some really pissed off folks. Finally, the guy in line behind Bill
>gave him a quarter (the value of the cupon) and said something to the
>efect of "You can pay me back when you make your first million", knowing
>full well to whom he was speaking.
>
>At least that's the way I heard it.
>
>Ian "Please don't fire me" Kennedy

This is probably true.  On KGO (810 AM) in San Francisco, an all-talk
station, I heard an interview with a fella that wrote a biography
on Bill.  I don't remember the guys name (wasn't interested in the
book), but do remember the following tale he spun, claiming complete
validity...

Bill & a passenger were due to attend a meeting in SF and, with Bill
driving, he found the typical difficulty in locating a SF parking spot.
He ended up being something like 30 minutes late for the meeting
because he didn't want to pay $8 to a parking lot, insisting on
finding a free, public space on the street!

This, of course, made me reflect on my own financial situation,
thinking, "Hey, maybe I should take a lesson from the successful",
so I decided to never buy the book (or any Microsoft products).

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tbrown@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (ted croft brown)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:01:31 GMT

In article <93010.123057SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> <SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>On the subject of emulation: wyizzit that none of these rocket-scientist
>infested computer companies don't develop the emulator for the previous
>generation of computer as they are designing and building the next generation?
>Atari for example mocked both Darek Mihocka who made a wonderful 800
>emulator for the ST and David Small who made Apple defecate construction
>material with the world's first mac emulator...
>By no means does the emulation have to be perfect at first release but
>sheesh it'd be a wonderful selling point IMHO for upgrading...  Sheesh,
>I'll bet there are a lot of amiga users right now who would LOVE a good
>atari 800 emulator and if a new RISC amiga were released that could run
>old amiga sotfware say as well as the 1200 then there'd be no excuse other
>than unaffordability...  Built-in 2600 emulation was definitely a neat part
>of the atari 7800...  Too bad it ended up being marketed by the katzenjammer
>kids....
>
>Scott

Well, Taligent is supposed to have emulators for both OS/2 and Macintosh
software.  So those big computer companies might have learned something.
(That is if you believe that Taligent will ever bear fruit and ship.)
The Mac emulator is supposed to run fairly quickly because they ported the
Mac Toolbox over to Taliengt, so it runs natively. Apple's Test found that
Excel spent about 80% of it's time in the Toolbox and that Pagemaker spent
some 90%+ figure in the Toolbox.  This boost will offset the slowness of the
CPU emulator supposedly giving them approximately 040 speeds.

Yes Atari is a, uh, quite crazy outfit.  But in their defence the more I 
played with Mr. Mihocka's emulator the lower my opinion of it got.  I was 
demoed it by someone who used the various versions of it..and didn't think
it had any real value, so that definately taints my opinion.  Darek also has
a, uh, talent for saying things to piss people off.  His current emulator, 
Gemulator, which allows ST software to run under windows and DOS gets a 
lukewarm reception due to his big mouth.

Oh, and yes Dave Small does tend to make Apple have weenies.  That's one fine
piece of software engineering.  If you ever meet him he's just one helluva
nice guy.  (I guess he's sorta an Anti-Mihocka).

And yes I guess that colors me...I have owned an Amiga, a ST, and a
Mac (Well so my Dad owned the Mac).
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Real Time OS (was: To VM or not to VM?)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:29:25 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0GK7M.3D9@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> engb@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Ben Eng) writes:
>That is definitely a huge step in an interesting direction---not
>necessarily the right one, but it will certainly influence how
>the Amiga is used by some people.  At least it is a proof of
>concept so that Commodore can take notice.  With a real-live
>product on the market, users have ammunition to throw at
>Commodore to show them how useful it is---it'll probably influence
>them a lot more to make it an integral part of the OS than any
>silly comp.sys.amiga.advocacy argument ever will.

I just things there are better things to work on, more important
things to take up space in ROM.  I'd sooner see full resource tracking
than VM, I'd rather see some really nice debugging MP stuff.

>[So when is the Amiga going to have user installable schedulers? :-]

Already does.  :)

One exists, and does BOTH of what you want.  Look for JM1.1b,
JobManager.  It's the "installable schedule" you're looking for.  All
in all, very nice.  Never got a lick of use out of the scheduling
system, but I loved the PS/Status commands, and wish they existed
independently of it.

Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:31:40 GMT
Reply-To: bill@west.msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Donald R Lloyd (don@chopin.udel.edu) wrote:
: Hmm... an actual constructive article from MB...
:      I don't particularly _want_ all those icons cluttering up my screen.
: I guess it's tough for OS/2 and Windows to mix the process icons with
: disk/file icons, since they don't _have_ disk/file icons...
:      Granted, a lot of users would probably find this feature useful.  It'd
: be rather simple to include an Iconify commodity in the OS.

Keep OS/2 out of this if you don't know what you are talking about.
1) OS/2 does have disk/file icons.  It also has folder, drive, printer
and trash icons.  Each an object.  A folder actually represents a
directory on disk.

2) OS/2 has several methods from keeping process icons from program
icons:
- A Minimized Window Folder - If an application is setup to use this
option, when it is iconified, its icon will appear in this special folder
- A different look on the desktop.  If an application icon is going to be
put on the desktop, it at least has a distinct look.
- You can keep program objects off the desktop in folders.
- You can setup applications to not produce an icon.  To restore the
application, you choose it from the task list.  The task list is
availible from the desktop menu.

Also the "feature" or "commodity" of putting iconify into the OS I would
think would be very basic to almost any system which allows multitasking
of applications.  Hell, even X Windows has it.  You would figure after 6
years CBM would be able to fix this.  The Mac doesn't need the concept
because its multifinder paradigm seems to work ok, and also isn't really
a multitasking system.

Just trying to set the record straight.
--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy