From: garrett@Ingres.COM (Smokers are productive, but death cuts efficiency)
Subject: Re: "New Right" Libertarians?
Summary: Mining Community
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:30:42 GMT

In article <robc.23.0@wicat>, robc@wicat (Rob Carlson)                                           writes...
>In article <1993Jan12.021600.536@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS) writes:
>>In article <robc.16.0@wicat>, robc@wicat (Rob Carlson)                                    writes... 
>>Mr. Carlson, have you ever been in a REALLY small town? I grew up in a town
>>where the only industries in 100 miles were a oar mine, and one lumber mill
>>(the lumber mill has since closed). This was only 8 years ago that I lived 
>>there.
> 
>	Actually I have. I'll spare you the gory details. How could there be 
>a town with only two industries? Below you mention not one but two bars. I 
>suspect there was also the usual complement of retail stores, liqour 
>stores, doctors, etc.

I was careful to use the word "industry", not business. Let me explain why.
When after the feds finished building a large dam nearby, the town went from
having 8,000 people, and over 200 businesses in it, to 3,000 people and just
over 50 businesses in it, in just two years. I use industry to descrbe any
business which the community is dependent on. In fact, if it wasn't for the
feds, the town would, for all intents and purposes, no longer exist. I will
expand on this below.
> 
>>	Can you imagine how it was in the Appalachians during the late
>>1800's? Why do you think the miner's unions are some of the strongest and
>>most militant in the country?
> 
>	I don't know but would be very interested in your thoughts on the 
>subject.

Because the mining company, for all practical purposes, owned the town.
The general store was dependent on the miners, the blacksmith (mechanic), was
dependent on the miners, the small city government was dependent on the miners.
The miners union knew (know) that the mine controlled the area and if you
wanted change, then you have to start with the mine company.
> 
>>	As for starting your own company, that requires capital. In the 
>>town I lived in, you were comsidered rich if you didn't have a tab at one
>>of the two local bars (that may be funny, but it's true).
> 
>	There are plenty of businesses that require no capital. Ask any 
>teanager that babysits on the weekends to save money for college.

This is stretching the definition of business quite a bit. The word may still
apply, but in reality...
> 
>>>	The only situation under which your scenario could be achieved is by 
>>>force. Like some government making a law that says you may only work for 
>>>that employer and cannot form any business of your own.
>>
>>Ever heard of company script? Under the Libertarian ideal, this could be
>>legal. Ain't life a bitch.
> 
>	As long as its voluntary, what business is it of yours whether I 
>take cash or script from my employer?

Let me explain why. Let's say all the employers in the area decide that
they will all start making script at once (this has happened before). This 
is poison to the capitalist system, but it does wonders for the people in 
power.
	Without cash to start new business, then the market will 
stagnate, but the people in power will gain more power and wealth. If you
can't picture this, and the ramifications, then let me know.

>I wouldn't accept script, though. It 
>would lock me into a captive market. Though I have entered into barter 
>arrangements. If script was the only payment the company gave, I have many 
>choices:
> 
>	1. Work for a different company. All businesses are in competition 
>	   for labor.
> 
Not during hard times. In fact, not during most times. Especially if it's
low skilled.

>	2. Work for myself. Unless there are laws against it, there are 
>	   unlimited ways to get money in exchange for goods and 
>	   services.

That's what many people tried to do when the lumber mill was closed down.
You know what happened? Most people lost everything. Because of the area
being so isolated, all the possibilities of services were flooded.
> 
>	3. Organize as many of the employers as possible and change the way 
>	   the company pays us. Big business needs labor as much as you need 
>	   business.
> 
I'll agree with this choice 100%.
> 
>Rob Carlson

-Garrett