From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:42:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct8.234239.29539
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University

jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH) writes:
>|>Which system would you recommend to someone who had decided they wanted to
>|>try Role-Playing? The game should be suitable for whole groups of Newbies
>|>to learn on their own without the guidance of Role-Playing Gurus. What do
>|>you see as the dominant criteria for a Newbie RPG?
>
>Though I may be prejudiced, I would suggest GURPS and any one supplement that
>happens to strike their fancy.  D6's only, two-tier combat system with lots
>of OPTIONAL rules that can be added when the players are more experienced, and
>of course the benefit of having TONS & TONS of other supplements when they get
>bored of their first choice.

	Ack! I know I am treading on thin ice here, but I think that GURPS 
is poorly qualified for beginners to role-playing. If you just want to 
espouse GURPS in general, please direct replies to frp.advocacy. If you 
want to discuss the criterion for a game good for newbies, then direct 
to frp.misc. 

CRITERION FOR A 'BEGINNERS GAME':

	Actually, the first thing that comes to mind is a mystery party 
game - you know, the type where everyone comes in playing a character 
in a murder mystery, and together they have to find out who the killer 
is. I've done this a couple of times with people who have never played 
RPG's - and I think reflects role-playing alot better than dice- and 
power-oriented munchkin-like games. 

	After that, for a real RPG campaign: 

1)	For starters, a simple, easy to follow, and relatively quick 
character creation process. Complex point systems like GURPS and Hero 
are right out. Systems with templates (Star Wars, Shadowrun, etc.) are 
OK, as are straight rolling systems (although ideally the rolls should 
add some interest to the character beyond just numbers - like the 
background charts in Cyberpunk 2020). 

2)	It should have an introductory adventure and some very clear 
and straightforward guidelines on how to set up a campaign. Games with 
a clear purpose for the PC's are good at this:  Ex. Werewolf, Torg, Star 
Wars, etc.  Alot of beginners have no idea what to *do* in a campaign, 
and the PC's wander around trying to decide. 
	It is also good if there is a clear source material for what 
adventures should be like: Ex. Star Wars obviously has a good model. Having 
lots of examples of play in the rulebook also helps. 

3)	Rules should be simple and straightforward. Universal mechanics 
are very important: there should be a 'default' way to roll for success if 
you do not know the rules. The last thing you want to encourage is digging 
in the book for some rules hidden in a sidebar. Organization is also good, 
but is no substitute for simplicity: 4th Ed. Hero is fairly well organized, 
for example, but is *not* a system for beginners. 

4) 	Complete, detailed adventures available, as opposed to adventure 
ideas or 'shells' that have to be filled out: Ex. Paranoia has plenty of 
these. 

-------------

	I'm not sure what game would best fulfill these criteria. I don't 
know Star Wars or Teenagers from Outer Space all that well. Paranoia does 
fairly well except for the mechanics - you would want GM at least somewhat 
experienced. Toon is alright, but it is hard to build lasting campaigns. 
	Torg is probably the best among the ones I know, or perhaps James 
Bond - but they both fail in several ways. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "Remember, a running man may slit a thousand
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | throats in a single night."
Columbia University         |                    - Klingon proverb