HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: St. Cole Porter (was Re: Homoerotic bible quotes?)
Date: 12 Aug 1992 12:44:15 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug10.225245.12165@microsoft.com> 
frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
> In article <l8601fINN3an@mizar.usc.edu> 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >...  Any unusual Ethel Merman?  
>
> Probably not unusual in your terms, but for us lesser
> mortals "Down in the Dumps on the 90th Floor" might be
> considered so. What is that word for the kind of gown she's
> wearing, p-somethng-lated?

*Fabulous* song, isn't it?  (It should "Down in the Depths on
the 90th Floor".)

"Here I sit above the town in my pet pailletted gown"

Paillettes are spangles.  Merman wore a dress *covered*
with bugle beads during that number. 

> In the book that comes with the tapes, there's a picture of
> Greenwood. She's wearing slacks and a mink coat, studying
> her script with one long leg sticking up the air with an
> almost impossible flexibility. How I would have loved to
> seen her on stage in her prime -- a long prime it was.

Thank god she made as many movies as she did.  I've always
been particularly fond of her in the 20th Century Fox musicals 
she made in the '40s, especially "Down Argentine Way" and 
the truly brilliant "The Gang's All Here".

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re:
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:39:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


(elf)
/   I disagree, really... One way or another we have to convince the
/ hets, wherever they are, that we are just another kind of human, just
/ as reasonable as they are.

Finally.  A small voice of reason.

Elf (is that really your name?) is right; sometimes the minority has to
(unfortunately) do the education work, because the majority is fat, dumb
and happy and won't lift a finger to educate itself.



(elf)
/   Then you want the truth, Bob?  Truth or not, your "handsome,
/masculine, and closeted" gays are _cowards_.  

No.  They are simply being judicious about whom they associate with.

Elf, do you believe that coming out of the closet can be made easier?
If you answer "yes", then the next question is:  do we have any
responsibility to make it easier on people?  To provide them with
positive role models and an easy path out of the closet?

If there are actions which obstruct or hinder the coming out process,
do we continue doing them or do we back off and stop doing them?



(elf)
/Dammit, if you want to be
/gay and butch, then bloody say so!  Come together as a crowd and prove
/how you can be "manly" and still take cock up your ass.  Otherwise, go
/home and cry in your closet.

Always with you it's back to the sex act.  Not getting enough lately,
Elf?



(elf)
/   Sez you, Bob.  Do you think it's *at all* easy for any gay man to
/come out?  

Of course not; don't be stupid.  It is never an easy thing.  But just
because it is already hard, that is NOT an argument for making it even
harder.  Why do you want to make an already difficult decision even
more difficult?



(elf)
/If you want to make the world safe "your kind of faggot,"
/you'd do it a favor and encourage your fellow butchboys to set a "good"
/example or two.

Not just guys; the ladies,  too.  

As for good examples, I believe I have already mentioned
Thorne and Kammemyer.  I could also mention Christopher Reeves.
Lee Majors comes to mind as well.



(elf)
/   You've just minimized the personal cost, tragedy, and pain of EVERY
/ gay man, butch or queen, who came out of the closet.  THAT, my friend,
/ is the coldest thing you could have possibly done.

Oh, come off it, Elf.  I did no such thing.

You have created a false accusation, and then rushed out like a knight
in shining armor to defend gays from the false accusation that you
yourself created.

I don't know if you routinely create straw men just for the fun of 
knocking them down, but you certainly did it here.
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:54:37 GMT
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 714247815@jfred, wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
> his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer) writes:
> 
> >In article 714141992@jfred, wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
> >> He was named for his father, Jack Robert Bernardo.
> 
> >Are you sure?  That goes against Jewish tradition.  Jews name in honor of those
> >who have passed on.  I trust someone soon will be named after Rob...
> 
> Yes, I am sure (saw it on the gravestone).  His father's name was Jack Robert
> Bernardo.  The family was Sefardic, so perhaps their traditions are a little
> different.  I don't know.
> 
> By the way, I didn't mean to imply that Rob's name was the exactly same as
> his father's.  It was simply "Robert Bernardo."
> 
 
> --
> Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643

To everyone who has "corrected" me on this both on the net and in email, thank
you.  Does anyone else find this irony wonderfully beautiful?  As I said in my
first post about Rob recently, we "met" over my making a "jewish-related" error.
I think (and I am sure Rob does too!) that it is the sweetest of ironies that
our relationship began and "ended" on similar notes...

Please note that ended is in quotes for a reason.  Important relationships never
end, but I coudln't think of just the right word...

Howard
---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: name the similarity [game!]
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:23:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.192553.17378@quantime.co.uk>, roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> 
> [Also, I notice Sim can be found IN SOME BARS,
> while Robert is a BORN ERECTOR.]

It is fortunate that I wasn't taking in any liquid refreshment when I
read this; I would surely have shorted out my keyboard. As it was, it
was some time before I could breathe properly again.
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:27:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: rigel.1992Aug18.022711.29039
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Aug17.182110.2986@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
>Christ, what a weird selection of words.  I would be more concerned if
>I weren't 100% convinced that what I said was true.  I have *met* these
>guys, and they are real people.  Hell, I even dated some of them.
>There is a whole, invisible chunk of gay men that won't come out because
>they refuse to be identified with the intentional femininity and 
>other bizarre practices that are prevalent among the fringe.
>
   You are a true believer, aren't you "Bob".  Be careful, your slip
   is showing.
	
   One of the dangers of falling into this idiotic masculinity trap
   is that others probably don't see you as you do yourself.  Why
   I'll bet some trashy little queen who knows you well is just
   about to publicly inform us of your own heretofore unsuspected 
   nelliness (to use your own unexamined terminology). 
  
   So jeff, do we keep him or throw him back?

   Wayne
   who knows lots of straight guys that "Bob" would be ashamed of.
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:05:41 GMT
Organization: New York University

In article <1992Aug20.183050.11740@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:

>And for Oregon?  I don't have it, and there have been several postings and
>e-mail messages asking about my "OR:9 Supporter Sighting" thread.  (Sorry
>for not being more clear in my post; it's been such a common topic on the
>net and in conversation that I forget that there are people who don't know
>anything about it.)  Nelson, Michael, anyone else?  Thanks!


This is the wording of the Oregon amendment as it appeared in the New York 
Timeslast Sunday, August 16th:

 This state shall not recognize any categorical provision such as
"sexual orientation," "sexual preference," and similar phrases 
that includes homosexuality.  Quotas, minority status, affirmative
action, or any similar concepts, shall not apply to these forms of 
conduct, nor shall government promote these behaviors.

 State, regional and local governments and their properties and 
monies shall not be used to promote, encourage, or facilitate 
homosexuality, pedophilia, sadism or masochism.

State, regional and local governments and their departments, 
agencies and other entities, including specifically the State Department 
of Higher Education and the public schools, shall assist in setting
a standard for Oregon's youth that recognizes homosexuality, pedophilia, 
sadism and masochism as abnormal, wrong, unnatural, and perverse and that
these behaviors are to be discourages and avoided.

It shall be considered that it is the intent of the people in 
enacting this section that if any part thereof is held unconstitutional, 
the remaining parts shall be held in force.


Emily
From: thomas@mips.com (Chris Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Kitchens of Distinction, new album
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:17:24 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: twink.mips.com

A followup to recent discussions of the group Kitchens of Distinction...
Their new album, "The Death of Cool", is now out in the U.S.  I've only
listened to it a couple of times -- and it's not with me right now -- so
I don't have a full review....

But!  There are at least two songs where the band are *very* out o' their
closets this time.   I also spotted several gender-neutral songs and
one male-longing-after-wispy-female number.

All in all, "The Death of Cool" is much closer in style to their first
album (the one with "Silence Equals Death" etched right onto the CD)
than to their second, where they allegedly were told by their U.S. record
company (A&M) to tone down their explicitly gay references.

-- 
Chris Thomas                                                (408) 524-8067
S4/7 b g+ l y+ z+ n+ o+ x-/+ a++ u v-/+ j++                thomas@mips.com
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What *IS* "Heaven", anyway?
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:27:30 GMT


Wherever the good people go, that is heaven. And that's the place where
we'll all meet.
							FJ!!
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:40:29 GMT
From: leroy@socs.uts.edu.au (Leroy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience

Another "oh" experience (of the several I've had in the last couple of weeks):

At Jenny's twentyfirst, two (straight) friends of mine got _very close_ on the 
dance floor - grinding crotch to crotch and moaning, much to the amusement of 
people who knew them. I was speaking to the birthday girl's cousin:

COUSIN: Those two. Um, over there....

LEROY: Yes?

COUSIN: Are they, ah, for real?

[LEROY, about to say no, takes another look at the dancers. They're writhing on the floor]

LEROY [amazed]: I'm not sure.

[LEROY turns to watch the dance floor again]

LEROY [shaking head]: Wow. 

COUSIN [obviously one of those people who thinks gays are "very nice people"]: 
	Cause Jenny told me she had some gay friends.

LEROY: Really?

COUSIN [really pleased to have spotted "them"]: Yes.

LEROY: She does. I'm it.

COUSIN: Oh. Do you play football?

--- G M Heinrich  ( leroy@socs.uts.edu.au )
Cause I don't think superheroes should be _funny_.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: New queer terminology
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:49:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.023757.21309@macc.wisc.edu>

>It's a tricky subject to touch upon, but I think it's in
>part a generational thing.  Taking a generation as roughly
>30 years, it's really more like a half-generational thing,
>since he mentions early 20s and mid-30s.  

   Well, here am I, at 26, rougly halfway between Nelson and 35, and
these words that you're all using took a while to settle in and feel
comfortable to me.  After all, I'm bisexual, not homosexual, and I
never really felt comfortable with the idea that the major centers of
commerce and social interaction were "gay" bars.

   By the same token, I fell immediately in love with the word 'queer.'
I felt like I'd found a _word_ that described me in wants and needs.
As much as I dislike labeling, this word gave me an identity, a raison'
d'etre, after all.

   I've gotten to the point where I can comfortably say "That's MR
FAGGOT to you," and can handle the term "leatherman"  without
flinching.  But I still see Nelson's point, and Jess's followup; 'gay'
is a word, like 'uranian' and 'invert', that seems somehow removed from
the motss lovers of 'my' generation.

   By the way, 'motss' has become a term I feel comfortable using; it's
obscure enough that I have to explain it, and when I do it drives home
the point: I fuck men.

         Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
From: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What *IS* "Heaven", anyway?
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:07:26 GMT
Reply-To: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Aug13.084357.5108@quantime.co.uk> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.035058.14219@reed.edu>,
>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>> In heaven everything is fine
>> you've got your good things
>> and you've got mine
>
>I used to sing this, quite loud, very slow,
>walking home at night from Kelburn to the Aro Valley,

From "Strange Angels" by Laurie Anderson:

	They say that heaven is like TV,
	A perfect little world where they don't really need you.
	And everything there is made of light,
	and the days keep going by...
-- 
                                      __
        John Kominetz, III            \/          Aikido Ki No Kawa
  Commodore Apps and Tech Support           "I speak for myself, not C=."
 ========================================================================
  "The higher you fly, the faster you fall."          -- Laurie Anderson
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: About a book/movie
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:17:33 GMT

Hi:
I am interested to know if someone has any opinion about the book
"The Kiss of the Spiderwoman", of Manual Puig. 
Or, if anyone has any opinion about the movie, of the same title, made
here is the USA with William Hurt and Raul Julia.

Manuel Puig, who was argentinian, died last year. He also wrote several
novels and some of them are related to the gay lifestyle in Argentina.
He used to say that he was a woman in the wrong body.

Please, send you comments to aap@wam.umd.edu

Thanks,
AAP
.
From: pentangl@spdcc.com (Scott Moir)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Presidential theme music
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:24:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug23.132435.5062
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

When Bush came up to the podium to speak at the Republican National
Convention they were playing music in the background. (That is normal)

What wasn't normal (and what was confirmed and reported on National
Public Radio) was that the theme music in question was the title song
from 'La Cage au Folles'. 8)

Scott

-- 
Scott Moir / Pentangle / Satyr ______ # "There's really only one requirement 
pentangl@Ursa-Major.spdcc.com  \ \/ / #  for a Prophet, and you've got it."
B4 f t+ w g k+(+) s+ m r p+     \/\/  # "What's that?"
These are my opinions, not SPDCC's    # "A mouth." - 'God' to J.R.'BoB' Dobbs
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:58:47 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

> 
>Steve Dyer (dyer@spdcc.com) requests: 

>> > On the other hand, donations to a suitable charity 
>> > and a performance of the Durufle _Requiem_ in my 
>> > honor will be much appreciated.
> 
>Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) prefers:

>> I'd like Britten's "War Requiem" (the 
>> whole thing) for my send-off, please.

While Jeff Schaumeyer ponders:

>Mahler's Eighth Symphony, Part I, I think.

I think my preference would be 
more of a an incremental farewell to this world:

Schumann: Second Movement, Quartet in A Major
Mozart: Aria from Zaide
        Masonic Funeral Music (no, I don't wear aprons)
Bach:   Et resurrexit from the Mass in B Minor (not for religious 
        content, but for joy)

It seems to me that JSB is necessary for any *proper* introduction to 
Eternity.

Or, maybe, just the Berg Violin Concerto.


Colburn Eigen                     H|u> = E|u>
From: aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:08:47 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Computer Science, University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <1992Aug13.172510.15048@cis.ohio-state.edu> 
amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

   [lovely story deleted]

   shucks, they don't understand the symbols you flash at them and
   then come all unglued at minor bits of jewelry.  how *are* we
   going to get them educated?

   arnold

Sigh. They sound just like some of the people in my department. I've
had the great "Why do you wear that tee-shirt debate" (prompted by a 
Bisexual Pride tee-shirt), I've had "Are you sure that this is the
right time to be wearing that?" (also prompted by a Bisexual Pride
tee-shirt), I've had "I don't particularly like that earring" (a 
doube venus) and "You know, you're a deviant" (the fundie reaction 
to the cumulative effect of my gay and bi tee-shirts). 

As for education, I'm quite tempted by hitting them over the head 
a blunt instrument, whilst repeating the mantra "we're human beings,
too, dickhead!" . . . Some people have opined that my tee-shirt
collection amounts to the same thing ;-)

Ang 
--
Angela Gilham.                 \ aag@aber.ac.uk \ "You should have fallen in
Department of Computer Science  \                \ love with a happy man, if 
University of Wales, Aberystwyth,\ +44 970 622433 \ you wanted happiness. But
Penglais, Aberystwyth,            \                \ you fell for the breath-
SY23 3BZ. United Kingdom.          \                \ taking beauty of pain."
From: mcconnel@niktow.canisius.edu (Jeff Mcconnell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: New Academic VP
Date: 16 Aug 92 23:35:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208


	Canisius College has just hired a new Academic Vice
President, and since I was out with the last one (and helpful
with his demise), I'd like to know if any one has any knowledge
of or experience with our new AVP.  Actually, I didn't really 
come out to our last AVP, but rather I came out to my class and
a parent complained to him.
	So I would appreciate it if anyone with information about
Dr. Joan Connell (her field is/was history) from Xavier University
would contact me via e-mail (mcconnell@klaatu.cs.canisius.edu which
is not necessarily the address in the header).

Thanks in advance.

Jeff

Dr. Jeffrey J. McConnell
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*		Silence = Death
USMAIL:	Canisius College			 	 ____________
	C.S. Dept. Chair				 \          /
	Buffalo,NY 14208 				  \        /
	(716) 888-2434					   \      /
Internet:  mcconnel@klaatu.cs.canisius.edu		    \    /
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*		     \  /
Never try to teach a pig how to sing.			      \/
It wastes your time and annoys the pig.		 	 Action = Life
Xref: sparky soc.motss:35151 soc.bi:10814
From: hopkins@turing.ac.uk (Don Hopkins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: FAXing queer body parts [Re: Palm reading study -- help!]
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:10:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss,soc.bi
Organization: The Turing Institute, Ltd.

whitt@gw.wmich.edu writes:

   [...] What I've been doing instead is having a random sampling of
   people make photocopies of their palms and the backs of their
   hands, one palm or handback to a page. [...]

   The address to send them to is:

   c/o Ingrid Willett
   1469 Concord 3A
   Kalamazoo, MI  49009

Do you have a FAX number?  Interested in any other body parts?
Should I shave first?

	-Don
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: musical finale
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 18:17:25 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

>cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe): Schumann, Mozart, Bach
>jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer): Mahler's Eighth Symphony, Part I
>Steve Dyer (dyer@spdcc.com): Durufle _Requiem_
>Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu): Britten's "War Requiem"

ohhhh, putz on all of you!  at my funeral, *everyone's* going
to dance to Madonna's _Like A Prayer_, the version on her
Immaculate Collection album...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: wbs@mred.llnl.gov (William B. Schaefer IV)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay vegetarians anonymous (was, be kind to small furry animals)
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:42:19 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

I originally posted a flippant remark about "plant rights" when I first
noticed this thread.  Though it was meant to be humorous, I was (am)
actually quite serious.  This discussion of meat being (cow,pig,fish...)
murder seems quite elitist to me.  Are not plants a form of life?  Is it
OK to discriminate against a life form because it doesn't "wiggle"?  I think
not.  If you are taking issue with the harvesting of life forms for human
consumption, then vegetarians are murderers as surely as veal ranchers.

So does this leave me water and vitamins for sustenance?  No, I happily
eat meat *and* vegetables (sometimes while wearing leather!).

wbs

PS: What about rock rights?  (well maybe the sedimentary crowd; but everyone
knows those igneous-ists are an immoral lot, not "Traditional Rock Values"(tm))

:-)
Newsgroups: soc.motss