From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Subject: Re: Mormons are not Christians
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 03:17:59 GMT

In article <ldc64lINNaj1@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, farkas@qual.Eng.Sun.COM (Frank Farkas) writes:
> 
> 
> About placing a quilt on members of a church (brimstone and hell fire).
> 
Your premise is not right here. Who said anything about hell?
Do you equate quilt=going to hell? Sure sounds like it. I thought
"quilt" where I used the word was clearly connected to "not doing
enough work for the kingdom". Thus the doctrine grace+works(as a
duty)creates quilt, in that one never knows if they have done enough.

> 
> >> Barry, it looks like that you know diddly about LDS believes, yet you 
> >> want to look like an expert, who knows more about what we believe in
> >> then we know our own self.
> 
> >Standard response- tape recorded message:-)
> 
> Well, do you think that you know more about what I believe in then you!

I couldn't possibly answer yes to that.

> Why is it that I have great difficulty remembering when you asked any LDS
> members what they believe in? Why is it that I only remember you telling
> us what we believe in? 

Do you recall my posting what your prophets taught? It matters little
to me what you believe. The important part is what the prophets(LDS)
taught. The importance bearing on their displacement of christianity
by revelation. When the revelation is shown to be in error, the 
standard LDS response is they were speaking as men, and not prophets:-)

[much deleted--wrong premise anyway]

> 
> Your memory is very short. Let me refresh it. This is what you said:
> 
> "The doctrine of Grace+plus Works leaves a believer in a state of
> constant guilt."
> 
> You accused my church of keeping its members in constant fear. What I

Uhh. Wrong premise again. I didn't say fear, nor did I imply fear.

> am telling you is that the LDS church has one of the most positive
> doctrines and approach to help people. The teaching and the doctrines lift 
> us up, and never dump us in the sewer. We have "man's deprivity" doctrine.
> Such concepts are strange to us.

Sure, if you block out all the negative and cling only to the
positive, you have a sort of fairytale existance:-)

> 
> >> 
> >> By the way Barry, I just read your response regarding Re: MIND-CONTROL By >ORTHODOX
> >> Religions, dated 7 Oct 92 02:34:35 GMT which dealt with the same subject. It
> 
> >The article was about "works"?
> 
> It was about putting fear and guilt on the members of the mentioned
> denominations. This was the same accusition you raised against the 
> LDS church. 

Wrong premise again. Now you Are connecting fear with guilt. We are
not connecting here my friend. The door is open for Guilt(the type of
guilt used in, "have I done enough work, maybe I need to do more" type
where one never knows. Then again, in a fairytale life it probably
never comes to mind. I was talking about real people with real life
quilts(negative and positive). 

> 
> >> seams like that other denomination who are having the problem. Is it possible that
> >> you got the LDS confused with the Missouri Synod Lutheran and the Wisconsin 
> >> Evangelical Lutheran Synod???? -:) 
> 
> >Oh? Are you going to say with a "brotherly love" straight face that
> >Mormon children are not fed Mormonism day and night from birth to
> >infinity? Oops, I might have fallen into a technical foul here. We
> >Mormons give our kids a break on (insert generic day:-))

> Yes, we do teach our children. Every one does! Do we do a good job?
> We could do better. One thing we we teach is free agency. We are very careful
> not to deprive our children of their free agency. But, we could do better.

But that's MIND CONTROL Frank. The same "mind control" the poster
was talking about. I would call it teaching, but the poster called
it "mind control", and you jumped on it as a springboard against
the WELS. Methinks your comprehesion skills are drooping.

> 
> At least you should learn that people who live in glass houses shouldn't
> throw stones.

Ah, but I built my house with double-pane thermal protection
plexi-glass. I can throw bricks:-)

> 
> We don't teach either that one goes to hell because he/she don`t attend 
> church on Sunday. You see, we don't believe that a person goes to hell
> just because he/she is not a member of the LDS church. Even non-christians
> won't end up in hell per our doctrines, only the sons of perditions.

What happens if a Mormon doesn't go to church? Do they get lableld
as Jack-Mormons? See, I do ask questions.
Please, you're all hung up on this hell thing. I never once mentioned
or implied hell. 
And read that paragraph over again(the one you just wrote here). You
jump from LDS "don't go to hell for not attending church" to non-
members don't go to hell:-) Orrrr??(Tim Allen sound). Frank, are you
a heavy substance abuser? Your points are very disconnected:-)
> 
> Can you please tell us who you believe will go to hell? Since you
> done your best to plaster the LDS with a mud canon, lets hear about
> your believes. So, who do you believe will go to hell Berry?

In your mind. Your premises were all bent-out-of-shape. there's
that Hell thing again. Why does your mind immediately jump to
Hell topics when they are not even implied? So much for the 
positivity that can only come from being a Mormon.

> 
> And yes, I do mean it. With brotherly love,

Words are dime a dozen-


barry--
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.peeves