HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: danmc@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (daniel.c.mckibben)
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:08:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.001931.23647@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rpw@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ray Wagner) writes:
>Speaking of crusing, if anybody has done the Hudson River,
>Erie Canal, Great Lakes, Ohio River, Mississipi and Ten-Tom,
>I'd like to have a chat. We'd like to do that one, but I
>think I might have to carry it from Erie PA to the Ohio...
>
I too am interested in cruising through the Great Lakes to the Mississippi
and the gulf.  The main questions in my mind (at this early stage of planning)
are which way and how long.  I'd start from New Jersey.  I could go down the 
ICW, stop by the islands, through the gulf to the Miss, up the Miss to 
the Great Lakes and then to The St. Lawrence and Lake Champlain (or through
the Erie Canal) and down the Hudson.  OR I could start up the Hudson and
end coming north on the ICW.  

Which way would you go?

How long would you allow for this trip at a reasonable pace?  

By a reasonable pace I mean being on anchor and eating a good meal
before it gets dark and staying put if the weather is cruddy, and most
importantly stopping to see the sights.

And if you have a time frame, what month would you leave in?

P.S. I have a motorsailor that does over 6 kts under either power.

Dan McKibben
"Wachusett" - ask my Great-Great-Grandfather about the name, it was his boat's
Point Pleasant, NJ



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:28:15 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:

>Why not restrict the number of sails one can measure in fot the 
>whole *campaign*, I would tend to believe that the cost of sails
>were higher than the electronics ans some sails were good for only
>a couple of races.

Now that my boat-partner has sold Dimension Sailcloth (the leading
producer of exotic sailcloths) and retired as its President, I can say
this is a great idea.

dhs   spencer@panix.com
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 9 Jan 93 08:05:02 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1ikm37INN3sl@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> 
> This is a tale of a greedy tanker company taking a short-cut with a second-
> rate ship ....

  Now you are showing some sense.  



  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
From: kverruyt@nl.oracle.com (Kees Verruyt)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:39:54 GMT
Organization: Oracle Europe

About the crew leaving the ship:

The BBC said that this was done because the SAR helicopters were running
out of fuel: the crew apparently got the choice: - rescue now, or
- be thrown onto the rocks.

Of course, a courageous captain would have stayed aboard for the tugs to
arrive...

Dutch reports state that

 - the remaining oil (about half, probably) is going to be pumped out by sea
   (with a ponton). This will be done by Smit Tak, and they'll need till Monday
   to prepare themselves.

 - As far as the sea itself; because of the large waves the oil will be dispersed
   naturally. Apparently no action is necessary there.

 - On land the main problem will be short-time effects to animals and people.
   The grass which is oil-infested will "burn" in spring because of sun-light;
   but in Summer new growth will come up which will then be free of oil.

 - According to a Dutch specialist, the worst thing they could do now is spray
   the stuff with chemicals; he said that this was done very often because 
   people don't want to be seen "doing nothing", and that in the Exxon Valdez
   case the rocks not handled were much better of than the ones that were
   scrubbed or steamed.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kees Verruijt                           Rijnzathe 6
Software Engineer Gateway development   3454 PV  DE MEERN
Oracle Europe                           The Netherlands
Email: kverruyt@nl.oracle.com           Tel: +31 3406 94886
   or: kverruyt@oracle.nl               Fax: +31 3406 65603
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:38:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Vienna, Va.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <1ihsv1INNo0s@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> youngqud@ucs.orst.edu (Dean Youngquist) writes:
>Regarding the recent grounding of a large oil tanker in (I think) the 
>Shetland Islands, how is it possible for a ship to be driven onto the rocks ?
>Was is actually driven into land while using maximum power and while attempting
>to travel directly away from land, into the swells and wind ?
>
>-Dean

The first news report I heard said that the tanker had lost
power, and was then driven up on the rocks. I haven't heard
any mention of power since that report, which was about a day
and a half ago.

-- Mike
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:32:40 GMT
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article M29@spss.com, bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley) writes:
> (Lee Wood, 3-6284) writes:
> 
> >1.  February Saturday afternoon midwinter race slatting - 11:30 am, everyone has
> >motored out to the starting line because there's no wind, the sun is beating
> >down and everyone has stripped off fowlies, sweat suits, shirts, boots, etc. and
> >some folks are now jumping over the side to swim.  Tiny waves rock the boat
> >gently and induce a kind of near-sleep stupor.  Great opportunity to practice
> >your aim with water balloons (not encouraged, though - sea animals eat them and
> >die) and have auxiliary power drag races.  No kidding, this actually happened a
> >few years ago in the Golden Gate YC midwinters.
> >
> 
> Darn... this midwesterner just arranged a ride for 2 February Saturday
> races on the bay in February. Maybe I should forget the foulies and
> just bring sunscreen :-) 



But watch out if the wind is from the South.

If it is, you will need your foulies - and we have had a lot of south
wind this year.  :-)

Jeff Huntington
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: joel@ssd.intel.com (Joel Clark)
Subject: Re: User's Fee
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:10:44 GMT

In article <50700066@hpscit.sc.hp.com> dick@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dick Lucas) writes:
>According to the Boats U.S. newsletter I received, the Coast Guard "users fee"
>is applied only for boats 21 feet and longer.  The question I have is:
>How is the length of a boat determined for the purposes of this tax?
>
>I'll ask the coast guard auxilliary at the upcoming SF boat show.  I'd hate
>to incur a fine over the interpretation of length.
>
>Dick Lucas


Check your state registration or US documentation certificates.  Whatever 
they say is what counts.

joel clark

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:02:12 GMT

In article <ZIELKE.92Dec31113634@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil>
zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) writes:
>There is yet another problem with the 'precision' of the fixes given by GPS
>or even LORAN.  While sailing from Norfolk to Cape May this summer I stopped
>in at Ocean City, MD.  There was this guy single handing a 30' something or
>another sloop.  He was convinced that he could make it into the inlet half
>way between Ocean City and Norfolk.  The chart showed a 5.5' channel which
>was unmarked (because it moves with every major storm) and his draft was
>5.25'.  He told me 'I can get in there, my GPS is accurate to 15 meters and
>the channel is 30 meters wide'  I hope I convinced him not to try...  He was
>from Canada on the great lakes and simply did not believe that the bottom
>changed with time.
>
>This points out a real problem though.  The charts themselves are often not
>as accurate as we would like to believe our GPS systems are.  Differential
>GPS will make this even worse.  I expect to see a lot of people aground
>because they try sailing full bore in the fog believing that they know
>EXACTLY where they are!!!
>
 Even if they do know exactly where they are,  that doesn't mean the charts are
based on surveys using GPS or some other equally precise and accurate
positioning system (like the ones that use a set of shore base stations). Also
not every piece of sea bottom is actually surveyed - there's a lot of
interpolation in them there charts. As the QE2 found out.

From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:56:46 GMT
Subject: Re: sensorsystems for underwater
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.boats


Hi Thilo

I have appended tha names and adresses of an underwater sensor manufacturer
(chemical, biological and physical) of a UK company with outlets in the USA
and France.  They also involved with a large AUV project.

I have several other references to people and literature as I'm quite
interested in AUVs - though unfortunately I don't work in that area.  Let me
know more about your project and I'll see what I have that is relevant.

Cheers

Brenda
------------------------------------------------------------------
Brenda Romans @ HP Labs         |  Phone: (0272) 228705
Information Systems Centre      |  ber@hpl.hp.co.uk
Bristol                         |  ber%hplb.uucp@ukc.ac.uk
U.K.                            |  ber@hplb.hpl.hp.com


A supplier of underwater sensor systems in the UK is :

Chelsea Instruments Ltd
2/3 central Avenue,
East Molesey
Surrey
KT8 0QX

Tel 081 941 0044 (from outside Britain 44 81 941 0044)
Fax 081 941 9319

USA Tel (301) 598 0908
    Fax (301) 598 8668

France 
CI Aquatechnologie
14 place du Sud
83310 Port-Grimaud
France

Tel +33 94 56 49 88
Fax +33 94 56 07 30
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Water System
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:57:24 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>
>So do I. But it died late last summer, and I've bought a FloJet replacement.
>*MUCH* quieter, and it has a nice feature: the hose-barbs are held into the
>pump by little snap-thingies, so it's easy to disconnect the hose for
>winterizing without undoing lots of hose clamps.

*MUCH* quieter, eh?  As an engineer specializing in machinery silencing, I
tackled sound isolating my three Jabsco PARs last summer.  Must have
taken a couple days work.  NOW you tell me I coulda just picked up some
FloJets?  And had quick release connections to boot?  Great.

>Now, does anyone need an old Jabsco with a reamed-out connecting rod, a motor
>that's had a couple of wires in the armature re-attached by an amateur (me),
>and a whole lot of rust?

Everybody's talking about Jabscos rusting.  Funny... none of mine show
any rust worth mentioning-- and they're 9 years old.  Now the Raritan
water heater I replaced... here we're talking rust!

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:03:54 GMT
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 62524@cc.usu.edu, hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch) writes:
> In article <lkk8ofINN59m@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington) writes:
> |>
> |>The crews might strike.  Sailing off the coast of San Diego
> |>at night is a maddening business that all too often can be
> |>summarized in a single (rather wonderful) word:  slatting.
>                                                    ---------
> 
> I give.  Whats slatting?

Think of the worst thing you can experience in a sail boat (without putting the 
mast in the water or the keel on the bottom) and you have slatting. :-) ;-)

Jeff Huntington
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: robertw@cv.hp.com (Robert B. Williams)
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:55:46 GMT

: As the old saw goes, you can't make something foolproof because fools
: are so darned clever.
: 
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------
: Benjamin Ellsworth                            E-MAIL  ben@smartstar.com

Ben, that's not very nice!  

To the rest of the net:  
It's true.  We couldn't understand why we couldn't hear that damn bell
bouy.  And we had been watching this particular Loran for something like
30 hours.  It didn't occur to any of the 3 of us to check it's reading
against a chart when we could tell where we were.

I personally hold this particular skipper in the highest esteem, too.
--

Robert Williams    robertw@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com    503-750-2818
HP in Corvallis Oregon

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Water System
Keywords: pressure pump
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:32:33 GMT

In article <1if9n6INNpom@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>water pressure pump pumps one stroke every few minutes, 
>all the time.  
>
>The boat has a Jabsco pump that has the
>pressure switch built into the pump.  
>
>explanation?  Is there anything I can
>do (short of throwing the breaker) to make
>it stop?

I have a Jabsco PAR also (sorry, I don't remember
the model number).  While I did have a minor
leak a few years ago, I've never had quite the
same problem you describe.  I have rebuilt all
three of my PAR's (freshwater, shower, bilge)
though, and as best I remember, the pressure
switch isn't isolated from the rest of the 
pressurized side of the line.  Are you sure
that side is maintaining FULL pressure?  I'd
think that would be hard to verify and it sure
sounds like a slow leak somewhere.  If it's been
a few years since the pump was new or rebuilt,
I'd definitely take it apart and replace the
two valves (PAR has a rebuild kit -- got mine
at BOAT/US).  They rust away.  8^(

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Hudson -> Erie, etc. (was: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?)
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:09:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.185624.12609@dbsun.uucp>
meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer) writes:
 
>In Chicago, at least _some_ of the bridges are raisable.  Not sure if all
 ********************************************************
>of them are (but if they all aren't what's the point of _any_ of them
>being?).  Wish I had more concrete information, sorry...
>
This becomes all too obvious when one gets stuck in the up position,
as they tend to do every so often (and then stay there forever until
they find an engineer to design a factory in which they can cast the
needed part to repair the antique monster...).
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 00:21:14 GMT
Organization: Invictus
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

In article @rpi.edu, floydb@rpi.edu () writes:
> Other than the "Bermuda" trip I haven't read any other 
> postings about future cruises.
> 
> Is anyone planning a cruise/trip for this spring or summer?
> 
> Where are you going? What are you doing to get ready? Who is
> going along with you?

The Southbay Slimy Slough Sailors just completed their New Year's
cruise.  We had a turnout of 4 boats.  Had a wonderful New Year's
Eve in Westpoint Slough in Redwood City.  We cooked up a super
feast, downed some grog, and sang in the New Year accompanied by
a guitar and keyboard.  About midnight the rain began.  We fell
asleep to the pitter-patter of raindrops on our boom tents.  We
were late to rise the next morning, but by that time the clouds
had cleared to leave a beautiul blue sky.

SSSS plans a monthly cruise.  We limit them to 3-day weekends in
the winter, but are already planning our spring Angel Island-to-
Half Moon Bay-to-Farallon Island trip which we'll probably stretch
out to 4 or 5 days.

I've learned to avoid simultaneous repair/upgrade projects.  I keep
my boat ready to go.  This minimizes preparation time - load up the
perishables and go...

We usually take our wives, kids, and stray friends.  It's always fun
to take newcomers along.

Dudley
SSSS (The Muddies)
Invictus, C-27 #4942
Redwood City, CA
.





From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:52:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley) writes:

    I'm not so sure the complexity is much different. Celestial navigation
    relies on simple tools, but the operator has to be very skilled,
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    both in making the observations and reducing them to a position. Those
    skills aren't easy to come by, and must be used often enough to
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    maintain a high level of proficiency.

With all due respect, I would rate this statement about the same as
the one made by the rangers at Grand Canyon that you cannot walk to
the bottom and back in one day.  Anyone who is reasonably fit can walk
to the bottom and back in one day--you do not need to train or run to
make yourself especially fit to do it (don't try it if you are a dyed
in the wool couch potato(e)).

Similarly, it is not hard to learn to do celestial navigation; neither
do you have to be "very" skilled--on a small sailboat you cannot get
very precise measurements unless you are lucky so you have a
(relatively) wide range for errors (see another response for a
dissertation on precision v. accuracy).  Navigation can be learned
from a book or classroom as long as you work at it (high-school math
skills help).  Of course you need to do some practicing on dry-land
and then, if possible, on a boat before you need to navigate "for
real".  The literature is full of descriptions of people who read a
book, gathered what they needed and then "learned" after their voyages
had started. (Of course, we don't know about those who failed.)

After all this rambling, my point is that it is not really hard and
you should not put people off by telling them that navigation is
something that is highly skilled and difficult to learn.  Point them
to a good book or class instead.  My apologies, Dennis, if I put words
that you did not intend into your mouth.

B.S!  
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 21:52:51 GMT


Some teeth are being gnashed over the abandonment of the Braer by her
crew. I wonder how many gnashers have experienced the terror of being
in a powerless ship during a really big storm? How many of them would
wave off a rescue chopper, knowing that it might be their last act?

The safety of the marine environment cannot depend on the validity of
the hoary Victorian myth that those who make a living on the sea are
endowed with superhuman courage.

Stefan




Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Atlantic City Boat Show Feb. 4-7th, 1993
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:51:05 GMT

I am considering attending the Atlantic City Boat Show 
for a day or two. Having never been to this or other shows,
What might I expect? What are these shows good for? How
might the trip be best utilized?

I would like to buy a used boat (32' - 40') for coastal 
cruising and passage making. Would the show have vendors
of equipment to outfit such a boat? Are their mostly 
vendors of new boats their? Is it mostly sailboat-oriented?

barry

ps
 
what other boat shows are coming up. I am primarily interested
in the east coast and gulf coast shows.


(lastline)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov (Gregory Banks)
Subject: Thank You 
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:00:38 GMT

To the person who recommended Hydro-Tech Marine in Lexington, S.C. for
stainless prop repair, I THANK YOU!. These folks did a fantastic job
on my Laser 2. I paid $50.00 less than I would of here in Illinois
for the repair/modification and not recieved the quality job these
folks did. They took the time to discuss what kind of trouble I was
having and recommended a solution that if did not work, they would 
continue to work the prop until it was taken care of! A great bunch of
people.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mgsail@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin)
Subject: Re: eastcoast boatshows
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 21:28:11 GMT
Keywords: NYC, Philly, Alt. City

In article <Jan.6.11.08.54.1993.5936@pilot.njin.net> ccoombs@pilot.njin.net (Cliff Coombs) writes:
>
>Atlantic City - Sail Expo, First year - Sailboats only! :-) 
>$15/day $25/multi-day $4
>discount for tickets purchased before Jan. 15th. 

Discount only applies to groups of 25 or more.

Marv


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Water System
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:28:03 GMT

I have found it to be preferable to place the pressure sensor a ways away
from the pump.  Seems to quiet things down quite a bit.  Right near the
accumulator is probably not a bad deal.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: kevin@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Kevin Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:17:46 GMT
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Edinburgh
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7733D70360140E2@applecross.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 8 Jan 93 14:17:20 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16

In article <thompson.726435097@daphne.socsci.umn.edu> T. Scott Thompson,
thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu writes:
>I did hear one commentator who questioned whether it was wise to take an
older 
>single engine tanker into those waters under those conditions, since the
oil
>terminal was closed, and it may have been possible to weather the
>storm more safely further out to sea.  (The tanker was arriving from
>Norway.)  

As far as I can recollect from the TV reports, the tanker was travelling
from Norway to Canada (or possibly the US).   It had three choices of
route.  1) it could travel north of the Shetlands where the weather was
even worse, but at least the prevailing winds would have given it a lot
of sea room,  2) it could have travelled via the English Channel (i.e.
around the bottom of Britain) which was much more sheltered but a longer
route or  3)  it could pass between the Shetlands and mainland Britain
and was the most direct route.  The tanker opted for 3).  It was rather
ironic that after all the concern over the years about having a refinery
on the Shetlands the first major oil spill was due to a tanker just
passing through.