HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hyde@cs.dal.ca (Bill Hyde)
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture/ British Misuse Of Sati.
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:36:17 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In article <1992Sep28.195542.27175@cs.wayne.edu>, uds@wsu-eng.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep28.055120.1578@ecst.csuchico.edu> vivek@ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu) writes:

|> >
|> >The British in reality were not even saviours of the Indian widows.  There 
|> >are many examples of the British soldiers having raped widows after having
|> >so-calledly rescuing them from the funeral pyres of their dead husbands.
|> 
|> Did you know all the soldiers in british uniforms were indians.
|> Only the officers were actual whites.  (Not even hybrids-angloindians)...
|> The only time indians saw actual british foot soldiers were
|> near the WW II time....


	Well, not quite all.  In the best equipped indian divisions
	one battalion in three and all the artillery were british.
	Obviously this formula could not apply to much of the indian
	army (2.5 million in WWII).  I speculate that this
	pattern became the standard to aim at after the mutiny.

	If anyone has more precise information I would be interested
	in seeing it.


						Bill Hyde
Department of Oceanography
Dalhousie University,
Halifax, Nova Scotia
hyde@Ice.ATM.Dal.Ca or hyde@dalac
Xref: sparky soc.history:8715 soc.culture.indian:32690
From: cutchin@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Cutchin)
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:52:30 GMT
	<19764@ector.cs.purdue.edu> <12570@optilink.UUCP>
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article <12570@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

   In article <19764@ector.cs.purdue.edu>, cutchin@cs.purdue.edu (Steve Cutchin) writes:
   > In article <JMC.92Sep28214354@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
   #     While it is probably accurate to say that many new and beneficial
   #     culture concepts were introduced by the conquering of India by
   #     the British this in NO WAY mitigates that it was the western cultures
   #     view of Indians as inferior, backward and heretical that allowed them
   #     to justify in their minds the slaughter of millions of indians in
   #     their conquest of India.  Mr McCarthy's EXTREMELY selective view of

   MILLIONS of Indians?  Even over the two centuries of British colonialism,
   that comes to at least 5000 Indians a year.  There was a rather
   famous massacre of unarmed and peaceful Indians around 1919 or 1920 
   that played a major part in the loss of British confidence, and the
   strengthening of the Indian nationalist movement.  Several hundred 
   people were killed in that massacre.  Yet it stands out as one of 
   the great atrocities.  Why am I skeptical of "millions of Indians?"

   Could someone provide some more data?

   If one includes British warfare as slaughter (which I do) then the
   number is easily in the millions.  Note I don't say tens of millions,
   or higher because your right I don't have the exact number.  However
   according to several indian friends of mine (who I believe know of what
   they speak) the total number of indians killed by the British is
   easily 1,000,000+.  If you do not include war in the use of the term
   slaughter then no the figure is probably 'only' in the thousands.
   However I don't think it matters too much if the people fighting the
   conquering (excuse me 'colonizing') British were killed defending
   their land or simply killed when they were unarmed matters too much,
   They were just as dead either way.  All because the British thought
   of themselves as 'superior'.

   -- 
   Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
   Bush: War on Drugs, tax cut->bigger deficit.  Clinton: War on Drugs, spending
   increase->bigger deficit.  What a great choice.

----
Steve Cutchin
cutchin@cs.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.celtic,sci.archaeology
From: ahogan@av8r.uucp (Alicen Hogan)
Subject: Re: Who lived in Great Britain before the Kelts?
Organization: Daniel Webster College, Nashua, NH
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:50:39 GMT

In article <26525@dog.ee.lbl.gov> mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
> Mark-Jason Dominus writes:
> >    It seems that the Kelts migrated into Great Britain from the
> >Continent between 500-100 BC.  Was there an aboriginal people there
> >before the Kelts?  If so, what happened?  Were they exterminated?
>
> I think they have found some evidence that in iron age times
> some interlopers did show up -- there's a site in northern
> England, I think, that shows a couple generations of more advanced
> Continental-style artifacts that gradually disappear in time, which
> somebody has connected with a historically-attested invasion
> of Britain by the Belgic(?) tribes.

I'm going to be incredibly unscientific and cite some old Celtic
<Gaelic> mythology.  In these tales of the past, the Celts state that
there was a great battle fought between themselves and the De Danaan,
or the children of some Earth Goddess.  Now, whether these were truely
magical people or not is for the theologians to figure out, however, I
do NOT doubt that there was some sort of culture there before the
Celts.  Knowing the warlike manner of said culture, the Celts probably
wiped out the other tribe.  <Although the myths say that the Tuatha de
Danaan disappeared into the hills to live under the earth.>
-- 
Bizarreness in the guise of morality!
Alicen Hogan						av8r!ahogan
Daniel Webster College				   ahogan@av8r.uucp
From: vp01@newshost.gte.com (Vincent Phuah)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Piracy in the US
Keywords: piracy, usa
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:35:54 GMT
Followup-To: vphuah@gte.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Waltham, MA

Hi there,

I'm looking for books that deals with the subject
of piracy in the US such its history, main events,
etc... If you know of any such books, please let
me know. Thanks in advance.

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
*    Vincent Phuah                                       *
*    GTE Laboratories              Email: vphuah@gte.com *
*    40 Sylvan Road                Tel:   (617) 466-4130 *
*    Waltham, MA 02254             FAX:   (617) 890-9320 *
+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Xref: sparky soc.history:8800 soc.culture.celtic:6523 sci.archaeology:2578
From: capn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Steve Thurston)
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.celtic,sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Who lived in Great Britain before the Kelts?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:46:38 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Oct2.232312.19203@unixg.ubc.ca> lahaye@reg.triumf.ca (RAYMOND GABIN , TRIUMF OPERATIONS) writes:
>However, two thousand
>years ago, this may not be the truth: ancient literature abounds with stories
>of 'immegrants' having to fight to remain ( the Trojans in Italy, The swiss
>into Gaul, Germanic tribes into Gaul, Celts into Galacia, the goths, the
>Vandals, the Franks,...). Rarely was a new 'people' welcome with open arm by
>the indigenous tribes.  I do hope that there were exceptions, but I cannot
>think of any off hand.  Nevertheless the rule was for new 'people' to fight
>their way in!!

They only had to fight their way in if they were carrying weapons.  The fact is
that, as long as you were willing to abide by the the rules of the "natives," 
you were welcome.  The whole history of Mesopotamia is like this.  First you see
names from new "ethnic" elements creeping into the texts (usually as manual,
seasonal laborers), then you see some higher level people bearing these
"foreign" names, and perhaps the worship of the "foreigner's" gods by the 
"natives."  THEN you see armed bands of these "foreigner's" trying to establish
their own dynasties within the region.  The anscestors of one of the most
famous Mesopotamians, Hammurapi, had their start that way.

Also, don't confuse "ethnic" with "economic" quarrels.  If two groups of people
needed to graze their sheep on the same spot of land, then BOTH sides were
more than happy to fight over it.

And in the disputes, you also have to take into account WHO is fighting.  Is
it a "foreign" lord bringing his troops in and trying to take land?  

And, even more... How serious were these disputes?  The Germans and Gauls
fought amongst themselves.  Why should they stop just because the "other guy"
wasn't "from around here?"  This was a seasonal thing.  Leaders of a tribe
practically had to fight just to prove their worth.

And on and on and on...

-- 
Steve Thurston
capn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   ...or...   capn@PURCCVM.cc.purdue.edu 
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<19764@ector.cs.purdue.edu> <1992Oct1.224600.17393@nntp.hut.fi>
	<19877@ector.cs.purdue.edu>
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:18:22

There is one test for cultures as a whole, and this is migration.
The country toward which people migrate need not be superior in
all respects, since disadvantages may be counterbalanced by
advantages.  One should note that all kinds of people migrate
to America.  It would be interesting to know what kind of people
form the largest group of emigrants from America.  There were
some people avoiding the Vietnam War draft, but I don't count
that.  Anyway most of them returned.  The best known emigration
from America was of literary people, but that seems to have
ended around WWII.
  
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: peram@cs.tamu.edu (Suresh B Peram)
Subject: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:42:28 GMT

>jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
>
>The point of the example, that there exists a world literary culture,
 
So, what's the point ?  What do you mean by 'world literary culture' ?

>as well as similar institutions over much of the world, is reasonably
>supported by the responses to the posting.  It would be better
>supported by a longer story, but I picked the shortest story in the
>collection to save typing.
>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*
>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Still bewildered by Mr McCarthy's elaborate but pointless
articles,

Suresh
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: re: Thomas Jefferson?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:14:37 GMT

Article 16450 in soc.history:
From: fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Subject: Re: Thomas Jefferson?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:49:05 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

>In article <1992Oct5.175757.5652@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>> Now, I don't mean to start a flame war, but is it true that while
>> the Independence movement was going on, and Thomas Jefferson
>> wrote "All men are created equal....", that he had slaves and 
>> concubines, and plagiarized some of the writings of John Locke?
>> 
>> I was told this from a friend, but never read about it in US
>> history in High school, so just thought someone out there
>> may shed some light on the issue.

>It's well known that Jefferson had slaves, something I learned in
>elementary school.  While I think it's a legitimate topic for
>soc.history, it also was discussed recently (about a month ago?).
>
>I also suspect that starting a flame war is exactly your intention.
>                    === Al Sparks

--------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't go to elementary school here; I have been here only since 9th
grade, and just started reading this newsgroup a week or two ago.

I honestly had no idea, and found it hard to believe what my friend
told me, that's all.  It may be well known to you as a born and 
raised American, but little details to newcomers aren't readily 
known.

Later
Omar
omar.farooq@att.com
From: susan@csbvax.uucp (Susan Finkelman)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: How many Indians?
Keywords: Cahookia,Mesa Verde,Hopewell,Caribe,population,demographics
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:29:07 GMT
Organization: Varian Chromatography Systems

In article <Bs9CxM.5Kr@ais.org> seraphim@ais.org (Henry Hardy) writes:
>However, it is interesting to note that excavations at the city of Cahookia
>in Iowa have led to population estimates in the neighborhood of 30,000 in
>the year 1200 ACE. This is about 2-3 times the population of the City of

Cahokia is in southern Illinois - on the East St. Louis - Collinsville
border.  Go and see it if you're in the area.

Susan Finkelman
susan@varian.com
From: hlin@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (hua.t.lin)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:55:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsi.1992Sep29.215528.20760
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep29.185158.24343@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> kavuri@lips2.ecn.purdue.edu (Surya N Kavuri ) writes:
>
>* Aryabhattas studies summation of arithmetic series and attempted solution 
>  of quadratic and linear indeterminate equations.
>
>* Mahavira discussed the operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication
>  and division.  He also introduced the use of zero.  

Wasn't it Aryabhatta who wrote the `concept of zero'? I understand the
answer will not change your claim that Mahavira introduced the use of zero.

>
>* Bhaskara introduced the concept of infinity and established that any number
>  divided by sero is infinity.

An interesting book I have read is `Islam: the source of Renaissance'
(borrowed from the local public library). It led me to believe that
there was more knowledge in ancient times than we might think if we
were to just look around us, and much more than they had use for the
knowledge.
Music was an established art form in ancient India and China. One of
the subjects taught by Confucius was music, although his philosphical
thoughts are much discussed. The ancient debate of Confucius and his
contemporaries makes quite interesting readings. Among the various
philosophical school of thoughts the prominant ones were the Mohist,
the legalists, and of course, Confucious thoughts. He talked about
political leaders leading by examples, a much desired quality even
in modern world.
The contemporary `pop' music has its roots in the soul music of
black Americans, who brought their rythms with them when they
emigrated from Africa. The music of none other than the King of
rock and roll Elvis were immitation of black music of the south.
A documentary of Elvis rise to fame will always talk about his
early recordings. And it is this form of western music which dominates
the world culture today.

My $0.02

- Lin
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: hlin@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (hua.t.lin)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:39:15 GMT

In article <9210061625.AA24501@quads.uchicago.edu> mss2@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU writes:
>
>>>In article <1992Oct1.224600.17393@nntp.hut.fi> c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen) writes:
>>>>where; when mankind discovered iron, it immediately began to forge swords. If
>>>>the Chinese had discovered tthe nuclear fission, they surely would have immed-
>>>>iately began to build atomic bombs. No need for Western depravity for this.
>
>>OK. The Chinese invented gun-powder, but did not use them in war.
>
>	That turns out not to be the case.  China had war rockets,
>cannon, and even primitive firearms by the time of the Mongol
>conquest.  (Unfortunately for them, the Mongols were adept at adapting
						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>military technology, and had them as well.)  See Abu-Lughod, _Before
>European Hegemony_, which is primarily about the world trade network
>prior to the breakup of the Mongol Empire and the subsequent
>ascendency of Europe, but also examines the state of Chinese
>technology before and during the Yuan Dynasty.

As a matter of fact, the defence of northern border by Chinese empires
were mostly made possible by the adaptation of cavalry techniques of
the nomadic people. Horse breeding programs were one of the important
strategy of defending the north. Most of the soldiers in the north
during the Tsin dynasty were in fact recruited from the nomads that
lived in the north. The Mongols could actually only forcefully take
northern China on their own. The conquest of the walled cities of the
south were made possible only with the help of the surrendered Chinese.
Use of firarms was never fully exploited.
From: rburr@mages.lkg.dec.com (Rod Burr)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Who Burned The Parthenon To Achieve Fame?
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:49:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntpd.1992Oct1.214932.15174
Reply-To: rburr@mages.lkg.dec.com (Rod Burr)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


According to Greek myth, Athena was born fully matured from the forehead
of Zeus. I believe this is the reference from which Parthenon is derived.

						Rod Burr
From: 3M754XU@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Looking for someone in the NASHVILLE TENN. area
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:35:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: CMUVM.92274.1335183M754XU
Organization: Central Michigan University

Hi

 I'm trying to locate a person who could check into a business
which is suppose to be located in Waverly, TN.

 I have a address of 916 West Main Street and they have a 800
number but I got a recording with no information available.

 Any help would be appreciated.

 Thanks

 Vickie Beck

 3m754xu@cmuvm
From: jmarlan@titan.nmt.edu (Jon Marlan)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Bailey, Colorado
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:47:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmt.1992Sep29.014730.9742
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Mexico Tech


Trying to get in touch with some of my old friends from 
Bailey, Colorado -- especially those that attended Fitzsimmons
Middle School.

Jon
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: g92h7147@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GR HUTCHISON)
Subject: Bruce M Arnold (Univ. of Nevada)
Summary: none
Keywords: help
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:37:49 GMT

Could someone please help me???

I recently received mail from Bruce M Arnold but I have been unable to reply 
to him, since he is on bitnet and I am on internet... All I know of his 
address is:
	Arnold@dws021

If anyone knows how I could contact Bruce or what the general address format 
of the University of Nevada is, I would appreciate it if you could send some 
mail to me...

Thanx
GREG
======================================================================
Gregory Hutchison           ||  "You are never given a wish without
Rhodes University           ||   also being given the power to make
Grahamstown                 ||   it true.
South Africa                ||     You may have to work for it,
<g92h7147@giraffe.ru.ac.za> ||     however." - Richard Bach
======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Looking for Wong Sek Cheng
From: <LWLLG@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 10:09:02 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Hi, folk, I am looking for the E-mail address of Wong Sek Cheng. Her English
name is Patricia Wong. She is Malaysia borned chinese. And I believe she is a
Electronic Engineering student at Stat U. of Louisinia, or any other college in
Lousi. Thanx in advance!
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From:  (m19701)
Subject: William ? Carry, VaBch 68-75, ODU-75 may be in Hawaii or Calif.
Followup-To: soc.net-people
Organization: mitre.org
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:58:21 GMT

William (Bill) F (I think) CARRY (not Carey), attended Kempswille HS in
Virginia Beach (class of 71), Old Dominion University (Class of 75, but may
have left area before graduation).  Probably moved to Hawaii or Calif. 
(parents moved to Hawaii around 74/75).  Has 3 sisters:  Kathy, Patty, and
Michelle.  A nephew Brian (CARRY(?)) who should be about 22 now.  I can't
remember his fathers name but would if I heard it.  Father was Cdr. in
Navy; may have made Capt.; would be retired.  

I recall him saying that the unusual spelling of the name limits the number
of Carry's one finds in the phone book.

thanks in advance to all who take the time to check their phone books for
me.

ed casey

(insert standard disclaimer here)
From: newmant@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Thomas Newman)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: looking for Jackie Robinson
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:52:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1992Sep29.195223.26564
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University


I am looking for a woman whose maiden name was Jackie Robinson.  She would
be about 57 this year (1992).  Her father was/is Rich Robinson.  He was
born and raised in Cedar Falls, Iowa.  He and his family lived in Tampa,
Florida in the late 1950's, I think.  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.  Tom Newman newmant@atlantis.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: zedaker@next08wor.wam.umd.edu (Pamela Marie Weller)
Subject: looking for Colorado
Keywords: University of Colorado at Boulder
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:32:16 GMT

Hello out there,
	I'm looking for someone I know from the University of Colorado at  
Boulder.  I've lost contact and wanted to know if he is alive, concsious,  
etc.  Name: Matt Loos; Major: (Last I heard...) Political Science; Drives:  
a red (1986 I think) Jeep.  If anyone knows him or knows of him, let him  
know that I am looking...  

		thanks, Pam   (email= zedaker@wam.umd.edu)
From: sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Dan or Liz Auger, Leeds, England??
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:33:11 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS

Searching for Dan Auger and Liz Auger, University of Leeds, England.

Stephen Fysh (on Stephanie's account)
sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: donnam@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Donna Melle)
Subject: Email to American Express
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:19:27 GMT



I'm trying to send email to an employee at American Express in Jacksonville,
Florida.  I understand that Am Ex uses a private network called "GEMS"
(Global Electronic Mail System).  Does anyone have experience with this
system or know of an Internet gateway to the GEMS network?

Any suggestions?  Appreciate the help.  Please email responses.


Donna Melle
donnam@niwot.scd.ucar.edu
From: root@tbucks.com (Timothy E. Buchanan)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: email address for Sony
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:02:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: tbucks.com (private bitty-box)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Anyone have any email addresses for Sony corporation? I want some info on
their discman electronic book.
txia,
--
Timothy.


      ------- Time is our only resource, humor our only defense. -------
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Julian Chow (U of Minnesota) Mpls.....
From: kit@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:39:37 -0600
Organization: Mankato State University

Hello everybody,
  If you know Julian Chow, please send me his email address or
dormitory address.   Thank you very much.

kit
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Looking for Alexander Hildyard
From: rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet)
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:02:46 GMT
Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

An old friend of mine. Last thing i heard (about 3 years ago) he was going to
one of the Oxford colleges.

Anyone heard of him?


--
Rabbi Bajzheet - The Hooded Oesophagus  __o `God needs food, badly!'
Usenet: rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz             _`\<,_   - Friedrich Nietzsche
Snail: 12 St Aubyn St, Devonport, AK (_)/ (_) Voice: +64 09 445-1186