Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Many things - was women Vs men (ugh)
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:45:00 +0000

I'm way behind with usenet - so apologies. I shouldn't really be
hitting it now.

We have two fairly pregnant ladies who are understandably annoyed
with what they see as potential put-downs on child bearing and
motherhood.

Stop right there...and at least listen to what I was trying to say,
and why.....

>hava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)

>.. is the reality behind castanedan talk of holes in the aura, the
>left-hand tantrik avoidance of ambition, and much other denigration
>of materialism by many magickal traditions. carreers are parasites: they
>suck about 35 - 40 years out of your life (more intensely, perhaps, to
>fathers than mothers). whatever you were doing before, stops, and
>the job becomes the center of your existence.

Good. Yes. It has taken me > 20 years to get back to the amount of
time I had to pursue what is possibly important to me. Career hell -
its just trying to make enough to stay out of trouble. One time I got
so deep in trouble I decvided it was time to make MONEY - not have a
career. So now I don't have a career - I have (some) money :-)

Look peggy - Read Ole Carlos again. The humble warrior bit. The thing
that matters is the path with heart. Who knows whether it is better
to touch infinity with your soul, or to hold your first child in
your arms? Shamans have traditionally been loners, not family people.
They also have a tradition of not willingly choosing the paths they
find themselves on.

There is a natural desire to believe that whatever one is engaged in
is intrinsically better - not just for oneself, but for the whole
human race. This applies to pregnant women as much as to priests. The
difference is that the priests had more time to write it down :-)

I suppose that was the real point of this posting - not to shore up
the Xtian paternalism (I think that is a fairer term than patriarchy:
Judaism was a patriarchy, but Europena Xtianity isn't quite the same
as the USA variety - but I digress) but to make the point that maybe
that was what those guys were thinking when they preached sacrifice
and celibacy.


In the final analysis you, and I , and everyone have to make a
judgement about ourselves and our lives: Unless we are to drift and
make no use of whatever personal power we may have, we have to make a
value judgement about what is better - either in a personal context,
or in a gloabl context.

I agree with castaneda: In the end all paths are equal, we have only
our personal lifes and our personal deaths. The experience of life is
what we have, and our personal power is ultimately the relationship
we develop between our selves and the world.

That is what _I_ call spirituality, the understanding of that fact.
Having children and being male or female is quite simply irrelevant
to that. What matters is not the icing on the cake, but to know that
one has a cake, and not a photograph :-)

Now many religions are (AFAIAC) means to bring the individual towards
the REAL appreciation of what life and death are: To cut through the
maze of intellectualisation  to the basic core fact 'all you touch
and all you see is all your life will ever be' etc.

All josh and I, and in a way Shava are saying, is that any sort of
engulfing and ongoing career - be it running computer comapnies or
bringing up kids, will distract from that fact.

It may not matter to you - or me. Personally I like to live a bit
lightly, but I seem to end up deeply involved :-) My fight is to stay
detatched, where I feel I am more effective. Thats me. Thats all.

What drives men to be priests or sorcereors or magickians or hoaxers
or mothers or fathers? Who knows. I don't. I accept what I am and
what I do because I have no choice. All I can do is operate in full
awareness of what I am doing, and not let it take me by surprise.

>Just a reality check for the folks who aren't trying to have a life...;)

One day, I may just find out what that really means shava :-)




-- 
Shava Nerad Averett                             shava@unc.edu
/*  all original materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing 
    significant to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned 
    subsidiary of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of NC DOT. */