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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:06:17 -0700
From:         WERLING <awerling@NMSU.EDU>
Subject:      Lots of Questions for Catholics here...

I have lots of these to respond to, so I'll try to be brief in my comments.

On Mon, 2 Nov 1992, (Joel Neisen) wrote:

> "The natural man can not come to know such teaching, for him it is absurdity."
> (2 Cor 4:11 ?)   In a sense this is circular reasoning.  Kind of
> like using 2 Tim 3:16 to show that Scripture is indeed truthful and
 applicable.
> Nonetheless, as Christians we are challenged to see with eyes of faith
> and to not rely merely on our own intellect (By no means am I endorsing
> mind-less obedience).

How do you reconcile this?  You cannot use reason and pure faith...the two
do not work together.

> Andrew,
>
> In a sense I am very much like you, seeking to define my legitimacy in what
> I do and who I am.  In the absolute sense, my own worth by that measure
> is pretty dismal !

How can you say your own worth is dismal?  *I* don't think it's dismal!
Or am I being too, uh, "secular"?

> What makes a piece of art valuable ?  Why can you
> go into a store and exchange goods for pieces of green paper ?
> The art and the money are valuable only because someone else values them
> and so wants them as well.

I believe that all "things" have an inner beauty of their own.

> In a sense our own worth is not made of
> what we do, but rather that God values us and wants us (to be with Him).
> God created us as individuals and loves us  strengths, weaknesses and all !

How about what the deists say, that God created everything, then left it
to take care of itself?  Why would an omnipotent being care about "mere
mortals"?

> I know that I am not explaining myself well, perhaps someone else can
> better put into words what I am trying to say.  But basically, it
> doesn't matter if we are homosexual or not, for we are all sinners
> and deserve death.

What have we done to deserve death?  What have we done, for that matter,
to have deserved life in the first place?  And are life and death good/bad
things?  Or are they really neutralities?

> It is through the love of God that we are given
> grace for salvation.

Salvation from what?  Death?  What is death?

> This grace not only saves us but consecrates us, and
> God continually exhorts me to holiness.

You probably have figured out that I'm completely confused by now. ;-)
What do you mean by consecrate/exhortion to holiness?

> Not that I can do it on my
> own, by through His favor.

This sounds nasty, but really isn't meant to be: if you can't do it on
your own, why doesn't he just do it himself?

> So what I think of you, or what you
> think of me is immaterial, it is only what God thinks of you/I and how
> you/I respond to His call.

And I would most definitely assert that, because we have no way of knowing
for sure that the Bible is God's word, we have no way of knowing what
is/is not a sin.

> Again, as I read back I fear that I have failed miserably to write
> what I want to explain.

No, you did not fail...I think you bring up some important points that
warrant discussion.  I, as a seeker and an honest skeptic, am eager to
continue this discussion, with you and anyone else who is interested.  :)

Peace, Andrew


Andrew Werling on Planet Yip   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"Wyoming?  Are you crazy?  I'm not moving to Wyoming.  What's up there?
Marlboro Men?" -- May, in _Fool_For_Love_ by Sam Shepard