HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: nkosi-sikelela in afrikaans 
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:43:14 GMT

For those South African with their hearts in South Africa...and those that
seek unit and freedom for all, for those see the future of South Africa as
being at the merce of our unification, I am providing an Afrikaans 
Translation of the song they might have learned to hate with even knowing
what it's saying.  For a while I beg you to take off your flaming and cool
down your enflamed hearts... Forget for a moment what you were told about
this anthem.. and listen to your voice. 
You may want to take off your hat and raise your fist or open hand high
(a sign of where you want South Afrika to go) and sing:

God Benadig AFRIKA
Hoor ons gebe o God
God wees benadig

Laat dit so wees
Laat dit so wees..
Tot in ewegheid in...
Tot in ewegheid in

Here bewaar ons Volk
Beeindig alle gevigte en bekommerhede
Bewaar... oh Bewaar here

Here wees benadig aan Dit
herhaal
(repeat)

Maag... (Amandla)aan die volk.


any care to comment
Gavan suite yourself.

Mokaba
Phatana Hlakola ga e onalele mohlakudi ... gore yalo mogologolo.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics,apc.reg.safrica
From: cogill@gacvx2.gac.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: unity and other myths
Date: 30 Aug 92 04:23:25 GMT
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, Minnesota

Just a short question... Hardy, could you tell me how old you are?
The content of your recent writings and responses prompts me to ask that
question.. :)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,apc.reg.safrica,sanet.talk.politics
From: g91h7029@alpha.ru.ac.za (Wayne Humphries)
Subject: Re: SASCO rides again
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:12:29 GMT

In <1992Sep2.165204.18951@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:

>[ Article reposted from uct.chat ]
>[ Author was Brendt Wohlberg ]
>[ Posted on Wed, 2 Sep 92 13:55:40 GMT ]

>The UCT branch of SASCO today gave another demonstration of its commitment to
>freedom of speech at a lunch-time debate on the violence in SA. Their objection
>appears to have been that a speaker from the Inkatha Institute was present, and
>that the proper channels for organising such meetings were not followed. The 
>organisers claimed that the only irregularity was that only three days notice
>instead of seven was given.

>Prof. Martin West (of 1991 UCT strikes fame) negotiated with the leader of the
>SASCO 'delegation' while his followers performed a sterling song-and-dance
>routine. After about 30 minutes of disruptions, SASCO agreed to allow the 
>debate to continue on condition that they were first allowed to state their
>objections to the presence of the Inkatha Institute speaker. 

>The SASCO speaker's address was roughly along the lines of 'We believe in
>freedom of speech, BUT.....' Afterwards the SASCO members resumed disruptions,
>(the agreement to allow the debate to continue happily ignored) and the invited
>speakers left. 

>West managed to get a good laugh out of the SASCO supporters by quoting Bishop
>Tutu on politcal tolerance. In a highly amusing postscript to the meeting, some
>twit in the audience stood up and accused West of 'provoking' SASCO. Ha, bloody
>ha.

>--
>______________________________________
>Brendt Wohlberg                       |
>Electronic Engineering Department     |
>University of Cape Town               |
>e-mail: brendt@dip1.ee.uct.ac.za      |
>        whlbre01@uctvax.uct.ac.za     |
>        bwohlberg@eleceng.uct.ac.za   |
>______________________________________|

"Tutu=.22"
Wynne Fris of da river Hum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: zxmsd01@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Gunther Schadow)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: has anybody access to School of Oriental and African Studies/London?
Date: 31 Aug 92 11:46:41 GMT
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG

Hello,

a friend of mine is looking for xerox-copies of the following book,
which is not available in germany:

Swamikannu Pillai, Lewis Dominic
"Indian Ephemeris, A.D. 1800 to A.D. 2000"
Madras 1915

This book is in the School of Oriental and African Studies and in the
British Library.

Of course, we will pay for the xerox.

Any help is greately appreciated.

cheers,
-Gunther
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gunther Schadow,	          e-mail: Gunther@mailserv.ZDV.Uni-Tuebingen.DE
Sudetenstrasse 25,	          Phone:  (49) 7071/37527
7400 Tuebingen, Germany.__________Stop__________Horn Please!__________O.K. TATA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: 3rd WORLD RESOURCES BOOKS(3): MOZAMBIQUE: HARROWING WAR
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:27:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.035753.20342@mercury.cair.du.edu> rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu (Robert T. Huffman) writes:

>>Consider the evidence that Finnegan so clearly and  
>>authoritatively advances in this book and decide for  
>>yourself how "complicated" it is to sort out right from  
>>wrong in Mozambique. 
>
>I haven't read the book by Finnegan, though I did read the articles
>in the New Yorker from which this book grew.  However, I want to play
>a little devil's advocate here and ask why this reviewer, having
>obviously decided that Frelimo is "right" and Renamo is "wrong," thinks
>this decision removes all complications from the war.
>

But this DOES remove all the complications!! At the risk of sounding redundant
(since I have made this point before) almost everyone in Mozambique has had
a close relative hurt by RENAMO.

I can see that its customary lately to "hit both sides", so to say. So to
have any credibility at all, after rebuking RENAMO, one has to do the same
to FRELIMO. Clinton cannot attack the rulers of Haiti without doing the same
to Cuba. One cannot criticize Jesse Helmes without saying something funny
about Jesse Jackson. AWB can only be criticized when you are willing to do
the same to PAC...And this goes on and on! This makes one feel good, but no
more.

In the case of Mozambique, I am willing to place the blame squarely on the
shoulders of RENAMO. Nothing complicated about this at all. No matter what
language you use, RENAMO are still the bad guys. Bandits are just bandits.
A rose is just a rose.

Lest we forget, RENAMO was formed by Ian Smith to act as a buffer between
his army and the liberation forces. After independence, SA took over the
controls. Throw in UNITA as well, to get the complete picture. Both these
groups get their support from SA and the US. Now ask yourself this question
five times very slowly:

   Can US and SA really contribute anything towards the freedom and
   liberation of the blak person??

By now you will have discovered how less complicated these conflicts are, I
hope.

PEACE.
-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu     PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE IS LIKE
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet                   SEX WITHOUT A CONDOM 
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp                       - A TIME BOMB ------me
From: skyert@rpi.edu (Tory Skyers)
Subject: Re: SAUDI-ARABIA PROMOTES RACISM IN EGYPT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african
Organization: RPI
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:39:30 GMT

In article <MALEK.92Sep4085550@mimosa.pi.titech.ac.jp>,
malek@pi.titech.ac.jp (Zidouri Abdelmalek 03/95) wrote:
> 
> In article <2019.2AA50570@catpe.alt.za> Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes) writes:
> 
>  [ deletion ]
> > Saudi-Arabia was celebrating its achievement by a cultural exhibition in New 
> > York in March 1990. It was promoted as an ally of democratic forces against 
>  
>  It's pretty old news ! Any specific reason for it NOW.

Islam funamentalism and barbarism is on the rise !!
Example - christians are murdered in the western part of Ethiopia
by Islam fundamentalists.
> 
> > The Saudi-Arabian government has been establishing Islamic banks and companies 
>  
>  None in Saudi Arabia itself up to now. So if this true I don't see 
>  anything  wrong with it. And they are to be blamed for not establishing 
>  this in Arabia itself. 
>  
> > which don't hire Christians, or conduct any transaction with them. It also 
> >  asks the Egyptian government not to hire or promote the Copts to leadership 
> >  positions using its financial aid to Egypt to force the Copts to Islam by 
> >  unemployment and hunger. 
> 
>   Like Botros Botros Ghali. 
> [ deletion ]
> 
Knuckle head !!  You are trying to ridicule Butros Ghali who fought for the
starving people of Somalia when your petro dollar fundamentalist ignore
the black African moslems.

> > The Saudi-Arabian government has been supporting all the fanatic Muslim 
> > fundamentalist groups who are conducting a holy war (jihad) against the Copts 
>  
>  Like sending arms through Kenya to John Garang to fight the so-called
>  "fundamentalist" regime in Sudan.

John Garang is fighting for the liberation of his people who are oppressed
by racist and fundamentalist north Sudan. It is a matter of time before
Garang
and his people achieve democracy !!

> [ deletion ]
> >   Saudi-Arabia the fief of the Saudi family, has supported the Islamic 
> >   government of Sudan in a genocidal war against the Southern Sudan to impose 
> >   Islamic law on its Christian and animist population. 
>  
>  This is  REALLY FUNNY , as every body  knows now about the scandal of 
>  the Saudi Arms sent to the rebels in the south of Sudan. The proofs
>  have been shown by  The Sudanese Government and the ship has been 
>  held in kenya for some time only  about  two months  ago.
>  
>  [ deletion ]
> --
>  Malek.
>  
>  "We cooperate in what we agree on, and forgive each other for that
>   in which we disagree." Hassan El Banna.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: News re Lee's 'Malcolm X'
Date: 28 Aug 1992 10:36:47 -0500
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: debussy.crhc.uiuc.edu

wattsww@ntmtv.UUCP (Warren Watts) writes:
>the film industry being racist etc., but I think he was way off base
>when he said that people need to see this film to support Malcolm X.

>Malcolm, but it is purely entertainment.  If you want to do something
>to support Malcolm, you should be doing something positive in the


Why exactly does Malcolm need to be supported? When a man has been
dead over twenty years, I think he pretty much doesn't care about
support anymore. 

>	 Warren Watts

Stanford S. Guillory
guillory@bach.crhc.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:17:58 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Aug28.162118.22444@aero.org> helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman) writes:

>Although I agree that these guys will have a hard time getting
>a fair trial, I feel it's a righteous prosecution. SOMEBODY beat the
>shit out of Reginald Denny and somebody should do time for it.
>   

SOMEBODY? Yeah, the same mofo's sho pulled the man from his truck and
were captured on videotape (really, the irony of this whole thing is
incredible), should serve serious time for it.  I cannot believe that
there are people who are actually supporting these guys. If they were
captured on videotape damn near beating a man to death, without
provocation, then what the hell is there to support?

I suppose some people will say that given the circumstances of the
time of the incedent, Denny's provacation was simply being white.
Well, that doesn't wash any more than that "other verdict" we all know
about. 


-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Johns vs. Carpenter
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 01:03:18 GMT

>> And Im sure Im not alone in how Ive
>> been inculcated with that warning.  Many white guys think that black
>> women are just casual, accessible recreation; they can just hike up
>> their pants and go about their business.  Forget taking her home to
>> Mom.  Hes just doing his dirt on her.  Sounds wiping a dick with a
>> towel.  Thats why most black women will stick like glue to the
>> brothers REGARDLESS.
>
>Uh,... I may be a little late to get involved in this tete a tete
>but,...uh... are you aware that this is pretty much how a great number
>of young men (for lack of a better term) feel about women today,
>regardless of color?
>
>"Do me baby" (BBD), Ootchie Cootchie (Mc Brains), "Don't bite it"
>(NWA)... all black artists.
>
This isn't indicative of the majority of black males. The majority don't
view black women as some kind of sex toy. I don't think that the original
author's point was that black men can't be sexist but rather that white
men don't respect black women. To simply say that men in general are sexist
may be true but the issue at hand is dealing with white men.

>Lest you think that such banter is confined solely to the ravings of
>questionably talented "musicians," I would advise you to sit in on any
>group of brothers in the twenty-something range and listen.  The
>conversation often drifts to women and some very UNFLATTERING views
>concerning them.  

I think that it depends on the group. Some men, depending on where they come
from, express their views differently than other men from different socio-
economic areas.
 
>
>The point?  Sexism is by no means confined to white males... in fact, I
>know several brothers whose behavior is nothing short of... well, YOU
>fill in the blank.
>
So what.

>While sexism and comments from white males (conjuring up images of the
>slave owner's son who would rape as he pleased and the black woman as a
>seductive "Jezebel" may seem more offensive, I fail to see why a Black
>woman would differentiate between white men who see her as a sexual
>animal and black men who see her in a similar vein.  Trust me, you're
>fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
>
While I can not speak to the intent of the author, I can say that in general
you will find more black men who don't view black women as some sort of sexual
delicacy than you would white men. I agree with her that black women SHOULD
be with a black man. Despite what the media says about us black men, we are
nothing without a strong black woman by our sides.

>DCAL
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Query
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:46:08 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Aug31.164221.12717@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> mjcarpen@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J. Carpenter) writes:
>I've been thinking for the past few days with regard to one participant's
>bent as to "politically correct" expression of contempt I have for the 
>attitudes of some White people out there. Being White myself, I find it 
>interesting that I am called a racist against people with my same color of
>skin; but, then, who am I to say. At any rate, I've communicated with a
>handful of people who've stipulated that the tools we need in order to fight
>racism/prejudice need to be updated, changed, reconfigured - Malcolm X 
>expressed this belief many years ago. I've been wondering whether there is
>opinion as to how everyone attacks the fundamental assumptions of a society
>which has been built to exclude, not include, the masses. Should the fight
>for social and economic equity be fought much in the way of the liberals:
>identify the progress, downplay the prejudice as "isolated", talk of
>socio-economic equity? Or, is there a need for more aggressive techniques,
>such as those presented by the youth?  

	Hmmm.  I tend to thing that there is always more than one way
to get to the same place, and that there is no one "right" way.
Granted when choosing one's route, one also pays the price for that
choice. I tend towards a frustration with the older way of the
"liberals" because it does not seem to address the real lives of
people, but tends to deal with everything in a rather distanced,
abstract fashion.  Youthful agressive techniques are too loosely
defined for me to say anything about one way or the other.




-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: seove@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (ERIC OVERTON)
Subject: Science and Technology 2030
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  1 Sep 1992 15:21 EDT  



SHAPING THE FUTURE:  SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY 2030

          ---Frank Rhodes,  Physics Today  May91


Questions about todays science policies and education will need to be answered
with vigor and boldness.

It is possible to sketch at least two scenarios for the future--one optimistic,
the other pessimistic:


POPULATION. We will either stabilize the world's population at a level that
enables people to improve their standard of living or we will expand beyond the
limits of the Earth's carrying capacity, with devastating consequences for all.

DISEASE. Advances in the treatment of viral, genetic and chronic disorders will
occur, comparable in influence to those that conquered infectious diseases 40 or
so years ago, or we will face new pandemics of AIDS and other diseases.

EDUCATION. We will meet President Bush's goal of being first in science and
mathematics achievement by the end of the century or we will remain at or near
the bottom of the international heap, in which case our society will find it
difficult to match the achievements of the more highly educated and technically
skilled communities in the world.

ENVIRONMENT. We will learn effective stewardship and how to mitigate the effects
of environmental change or we will suffer from a loss of biological diversity,
a global warming of the climate and a growing buildup of toxic pollutants.

URBAN ENVIRONMENTS. We will see a rebirth of cities as centers of commerce and
community life or we will see persistent decay, with high levels of unemployment.
increasing dependency on welfare programs and continued social problems such as
drug and alcohol abuse and crimes of all sorts.

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONSHIPS. We will make continued progress toward greater
individual and economic freedom and true global community or we will have a
backlash of nationalism, sectarianism and repression.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date:  3 Sep 92 21:29:41 GMT

heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:

>>Hey, dont blame me. These are the words of Allah in the surah "The Event"
>>(English by Pickthall) about the events of the Last Day:
>>
>>	But if he is of the rejectors, the erring,
>>	Then the welcome will be boiling water
>>	And roasting at hellfire.
>>

>It seems to me than any professor of a religion the center of which is
>love would be unable to express anything except despair at the thought
>that anyone would suffer "hellfire" for all eternity.  It seems the
>very antithesis of loving religion to look upon suffering with joy, or
>even with indifference or matter-of-factly.

Tell that to Allah on the Last Day.

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date:  3 Sep 92 20:01:41 GMT

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>No, this isn't a culture war.  You're trying to separate Malcolm X
>in two people and he's not.  He was one person.  As I said before,
>he went from one extreme to another.  He was still the same person,
>whether he was Detroit Red or Malcolm X.  Furthermore the book
>states that he engaged in same sex relationships BEFORE he became
>Detroit Red as a child and as a young adult.  Simply tamping down,
>or trying to control natural instincts--positive or negative is
>subjective, really--doesn't automatically turn you into a different
>address or phone number.
>.
>Sorry, Steve.  But it's homophobia on trial here.  Your reaction
>would be just about the same as Spike Lee's.

I aint down with homophobia...but I sure aint down with homophilia...
and neither was Malcolm X or El Hajj Malik. You cant be a Muslim (or
even a Sufi mystic :-) and say that there is no God and no revelation
and no hereafter, so get busy, everything is permissable.


I kind of glossed over the part about early, pre-Detroit Red homosexual
experiences. To me, the whole issue is that the behavior is *behavior*,
and if he had early homosexual experiences, he left them behind when
he became Malcolm X, because he *had* to in order to be a Muslim.

>>El Hajj Malik cant be, but Detroit Red can be. It would just have to
>>be asserted by a "credible" source. I doubt if such a source will be
>>forthcoming (in particular, I doubt that the source in question is such
>>a source). In the meantime, this smacks of West Village revisionism.
>.
>.
>.
>Steven, read the book before you smash Christopher and Castro
>Streets.

I plan to take a look at the book, I am just skeptical...what, its a
crime to suggest that there is a Village Voice political agenda??

>>Hey, dont blame me. These are the words of Allah in the surah "The Event"
>>(English by Pickthall) about the events of the Last Day:
>>
>>        But if he is of the rejectors, the erring,
>>        Then the welcome will be boiling water
>>        And roasting at hellfire.
>.
>.
>.
>Steven, the ends do not necessarily justify the means in this case.
> There are hundreds of Malcolm wannabes and assumers of the mantle.
>Malcolm was a lot more than both kinds of folks.

Didnt quite get what was being said here.

>What a shame he is gone, what a shame.

He was a great, great man. I just dont think that the assertions of this
book should be used to validate gay experience in this country, because
that would be diametrically opposed to Islam and to who Malcolm was at
the end...a devout Muslim. 

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: edsum02@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Cassondra Pope)
Subject:  Women bashing Women (was Women bashing)  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  3 Sep 1992 08:00 EDT  

My original women bashing post turned into an interesting discussion on how
today's hiphop/rap artists affect the thinking and behavior of young men
towards women.

Although I am glad that I was able to generate such a stimulating discussion,
I think everyone missed the point of my original post.  My point was that women
bash other women just as often as men bash women.  Women must demand respect
not only from men but from women as well.

Example (this was an actual conversation between women):

A classmate was beat up by her boyfriend.  Everyone knew about because it
happened in the school parking lot.  A few days later, this woman said,

A:  "She fucks everything that moves, he probably found out about it.  I believe
she's fucking this bitch down the hall."

B: "Nobody deserves to get beat up and in the parking lot, too.  At least let 
something like happen in private."

A:  "I'm not saying she deserved it, I'm just saying I have NO sympathy!"

I have seen and heard countless examples sistahs disrepecting sistahs, but
these say Black women scream the loudest about sexism!

WAKE UP because it's not right coming out of HIS mouth and it's not right coming
out of HER mouth!!

Cass
gt9153a@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american