HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: silvers3@husc8.harvard.edu (Jolyon Silversmith)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa,alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: REVERSING THE SCALES OF INJUSTICE: If Iraq Oc
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:13:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1993Jan24.231332.19764
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <C1DEMw.JwC@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Mason.L.Allen@dartmouth.edu (Mason L. Allen) writes:
>
>Once again, my point is that the US does not have to abide by any
>international law and it is not in its interest to do so. 
>International law as a rule is not controlled by set standards or 
>violations.  Its is a fieldwork of diplomacy - often, the Gen. Assembly
>of the UN will pass resolutions against all of the major western
>powers, which are ignored because nobody in the GA has the power to
>back them up.

General Assembly resolutions are NOT considered to be international law. They
are established by the UN Charter to be merely advisory, without the binding
power of Security Council resolutions or "traditional" international law. Read
up on the subject before posting explicitly wrong statements.

-- 
Jolyon A. Silversmith __________________________________________________________
Mather House 100             Director: Civil Liberties     These opinions aren't
Cambridge, MA 02138          Union of Harvard  College     necessarily  those of
silvers3@husc.harvard.edu ________________________________ CLUH.  But who knows?
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14468 soc.culture.jewish:25850 alt.revisionism:971
From: rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Federal Reserve Bank and Jews
Keywords: Clarification
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:41:45 GMT
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

In article <1993Jan13.213303.9252@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>> >}1) It's false.  The Federal Reserve is owned and fully controlled
>> >}   by the United States government.
This is a blatant falsehood and misrepresentation.
Check any book on finance and the federal reserve that explains in
detail how the system works. I'd suggest 
Money Banking and the Economy by Thomas Mayer et al.
WW Norton and Company. 

This was the text we used at U of Chicago in studying this issue.
More precisely, the Federal Reserve has private shareholders, 
and more independence than any other government related agency
(i.e. more so than many  public  utilities.) 
but
1) Many  "professionals" have called private ownership an atavism
  and have called for full scale nationalization of the Federal
  reserve.
2) The formal structure of the federal reserve has consistently shitfed
   from starting essentially as a "bankers cooperative" to being
   something with more formal goverment control.
3) Even today, member banks have _very_ important rights within the 
   control of the federal reserve. (i.e. 2/3 of the directors of the
   regional banks are elected by the member banks-only 1/3 are elected
   by the board of governors which is appointed by the president).
4) There is a very imporant _informal_ structure to the federal reserve-
  and any central bank. You rarely see dramatic changes in central
  banking administration(and when you do it almost always fails). Even 
  formal  nationalization of a central bank means little if all the same 
  people are still running the show.

For some non-racist arguments against central banking (and descriptions
of how central banking can be misused see either)
1) The Occult Technology of Power(Loompanics Press).
2) Ludwig von Mises Institute publications(They are at Auburn
University).




   d
h
   "



>> > Just for clarification, the Federal Reserve is a group of
>> > privately owned banks, not part of the federal government.
>>
>>         Okay, we have some apparent disagreement here.  Which of you is
>>correct?  (Naturally I expect both of you to raise your hand and say "I'm
>>right", therefore documentation would be good.)
>
>I'm right.
>
>You want documentation?  Check the statutes that authorize all of the
>powers of the Federal Reserve Banks, 12 USC ss341 et seq.
>
>Any power Federal Reserve Banks have is derived from these Acts 
>of Congress.
>
>Last I checked, Jews didn't control Congress, or the President, who
>appoints governors to run the Federal Reserve.
>-- 
>ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
>standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
>the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
>never shout movie in a crowded firestation
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14654 soc.culture.jewish:26127
From: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Bankers
Date: 26 Jan 1993 08:37:08 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) says:

>In article <1k1jf7INNhmf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John
>W. Redelfs) writes:
>>
>>Do you admit the possibility, Ted, that there might be a multicultural
>>banking Mafia?  If there is no evidence that there is one, is there any
>>evidence that there is not one?
>>
>
>John Redelfs, who specializes in genteel anti-Semitism, has nevertheless
>come to the right forum with this piece of logic.
>
>Lifney chatoeynu harabim..
>
>Norman Miller

If I am an anti-Semite, genteel or otherwise, then you are a Nazi agent
trying to make a laughing stock out of Jewish efforts to defend
themselves against real threats.

No paranoid John Bircher looking for communists under his bed ever had
to stretch as far as you stretch to call me an anti-Semite.  I feel
raped, that you should call me such a disgusting thing.  I demand an
apology.

If I am not Jewish, it is an accident of my birth.  I am not responsible
for this great misfortune.  My great great grandfather Jacob Miller (b.
1839) and his father-in-law Abram Rosenkranz (b. 1803) who was my third
great grandfather failed to pass on their Jewish faith and heritage.  If
you have a love for your own culture and heritage, you should feel bad
for me because of what I have lost, and not spread the most viscious of
lies about me.

I haven't made up my mind about a lot of the things we discuss
concerning Bo Gritz and the far right in this newsgroup.  But if you
throw that damning epithet around as freely with others as you have with
me you have absolutely no creditibility.  In fact some of the true
anti-Semitism in the world is caused by Jews such as yourself going
around with a chip on the shoulder making wildly untrue accusations.

I knew some Jews like you when I was in high school--only a few thank
heavens--who were so paranoid they wouldn't have recognized a real
anti-Semite if he bit them on the butt.












-- 


--------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ---------
------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.edu -------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Part 4, LURE TO WAR: Bush Sucks Saddam Into Kuwait [Stockwell]
Keywords: LURE TO WAR: Bush Sucks Saddam Into Kuwait [Stockwell]
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:00:57 GMT


	Tell me John, a few transcripts ago you claimed that
	nobody ever left "the Company".  Therefore, how can one
	be sure that this isn't part of some CIA disinformation
	campaign?

	Alec Chambers
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Re: CFR/Trilateral - Who's who in Clinton's Govt?
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:45:36 GMT

In article <16B63954B.KHILL@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> KHILL@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
>Well, Clinton himself is a former member of TLC, but the big news is that
>Peter Tarnoff, President of the CFR, is the new Assistant Sec of State
>for "Political Affairs."  This is a newly created post.

What will Mr. Tarnoff's responsibilities be?

What are his qualifications and experience for a diplomatic post?

-- Brad Pierce --

Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14755 alt.activism:21491 alt.society.civil-liberty:7538 alt.individualism:6291 alt.censorship:10136 talk.politics.misc:70231 misc.headlines:7578 soc.culture.usa:10227
From: rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns)
Subject: Re: Report on Gritz from Idaho
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:07:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.190540.22575@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>Please explain Gritz's Nazi salutes and membership in and support of
>the Identity Christian movement.  Please also explain why a non-racist
>would choose to run on the same ticket as David Duke.  Please explain
>why a non-Nazi associates himself with folks who claim the Holocaust
>didn't happen.
Perhaps for the same reason Jackson refused to repudiate Farrakahn n
or FDR made the alliance with the mass murderer Stalin.

Duke and Gritz both represent constituencies that are _hurting_ _
(economically, in terms of community autonomy and social status).
I tend to see Gritz as more of a separatist, and Duke as more of a
genocidal white supremicist attempting to clean up his image(and at times
having done remarkably well at fooling a lot of people). Quite frankly,
I think both Duke and Gritz are a bit overwhelmed at how strong a chord
they've hit(i.e. if Duke thought he really had a serious stab at a
political career, he would have probably covered his tracks more
carefully earlier). They also both share a very real sense of urgency
about problems their constituencies face.

People make strange alliances when they feel desparate. People like
Menachem Begin work with Nazi's and commit terrorist acts. I got news
for you Mr. Frank, you have negative credibility among the constituencies
in which Gritz and Duke have appeal. You insist on saying that this is
nothing more than mass hysteria and paranoia-and in doing so you are
making the situation _worse_. I ask you: Why should some cracker trust
you or your opinions? What leaders of poor rural whites do you most 
respect? So far, I've seen a lot of defensiveness, and 
insecurity around the situation of Jews in America(which I see as
similar to the attempts in the 40's to deny that certain Sicilian ethnic 
Mafias really existed) , but I've seen no particular empathy or attempt at 
trying to see the other side.

Quite frankly, I personally think we are likely to face a _serious_
crisis in America. I think we are likely to see some _serious_ ethnic
tension that makes the LA Riots look  like a picnic. One of the best
tools we have around this is creating some empathy on the part of both
sides.




.
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: What the Trilateralists truly intend
Date: 24 Jan 1993 09:11:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Well, Ted, I may have located a CFR related threat to the US Constitution.
Unfortunately, I don't have primary sources handy, so I'm forced to rely
on third party characterizations. It shouldn't be too difficult to locate
the material referenced, however, if you suspect the characterization is
innaccurate. The following quote is from the 1985 report "The Trilaterial 
Conspiracy Against the U.S. Constitution: Fact or Fiction" published by
Lyndon LaRouche's Executive Intelligence Review. LLoyd Cutler is presented
here as a TLC member, but he is also a CFR member and is published in 
Foreign Affairs. I don't know whether or not he is a Yale Law graduate,
but it certtainly wouldn't surprise me.
"Cutler was a founding member of "Project 1987", a Brookings Institution 
effort to overthrow the U.S. Constitutional system in favor of British
parliamentarianism. While still White House counsel, Cutler published an 
article in the Fall 1980 issue of Foreign Affairs, motivating his proposal
for abandoning the presidential system, on the grounds that in the coming
era of economic scarcity, a constituency-oriented political system would
be incapable of imposing the necessary levels of austerity. In 1982, Cutler
established the Committee for the COnstitutional System to lobby for his
anti-Constitutional proposals.
  Principal positions: chairman, D.C. Commission on Administration of Justice
Under Emergency Conditions [charming name -SC], 1968; executive director,
National Commission on Causes and Prevention of Violence, 1968-69; trustee,
Brookings Institution; director, Council on Foreign Relations, 1977-1979."

I think this may establish just a tad closer relationship between the CFR 
and schemes for Constitutional reorganization than President Eisenhower 
and the Dodgers. You should be aware that allegations of causality which
suggest a CAUSAL MECHANISM are not legitimately dissmissed as though their
only support were correlation and time sequence. The suggested mechanism may be 
<oops>
may be IMPLAUSIBLE, but the responsible critic should not dismiss it as though
it had not been suggested. He or she should properly attempt to SHOW that it 
is implausible.

Looking forward to a higher level of discussion,
-Steve

P.S. If it can be shown that Cutlwer picked up his ideas at Yale Law, then 
that institution certainly should come in for its appropriate share of
criticism. Please don't think I'm trying to let them off the hook.
From: ubjta56@ucl.ac.uk (Paul Day)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: CFR/Trilateral - Who's who in Clinton's Govt?
Summary: Is there evidence for CFR in Clinton Admin?
Keywords: CFR, Trilateral, New World Order, Clinton
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:54:49 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

Given that we have had the recent posting of "The Insiders", and now
the current hot debate on whether or not the CFR/ Trilateral
Commission are *really* trying to create a New World Order, perhaps
this would be the ideal time for someone Stateside to post a list of
suspected/possible/definate CFR/Trilateral members that have been
placed into positions of power in the Clinton Administration. If, as
claimed in "The Insiders" every government elected to the USA is full
of CFR/Trilateral stooges then this government should be no exception.

If, of course, these claims are so much hot air, then mayhap we find
the Clinton administration will be remarkably CFR/Trilateral free.

P.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Document puts Bush 'in the loop' on Iran-Contra
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:56:40 +0000

The Guardian, (UK) Mon Jan 25, p7

A document in the hands of Iran-contra prosecutors indicates that
George Bush asked President Jose' Azcona Hoyo of Honduras in 1986
to help secretly move guns to the Nicaraguan contras.
---

Hey, does this mean he *lied* to you folks?  Tsk tsk...

G
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Yale Law One-World Government?
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:29:17 GMT

:  Bill Clinton came from humble beginnings.  But he also got his
:  education at schools attended mainly my the rich and powerful,
:  and this inevitably shapes one's values. 

He did?  I should be so humble.  Having seen home movies of him as a
kid around the pool with the upper set, I'd like to hear more about
these 'humble beginnings'...
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14613 soc.culture.jewish:26052
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Report on Gritz from Idaho
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:51:58 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan25.080724.28481@StarConn.com> rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns) writes:
>I got news
>for you Mr. Frank, you have negative credibility among the constituencies
>in which Gritz and Duke have appeal. 

Of course.  I'm Jewish, and they're trying to appeal to anti-Semites.
Not much I can do about that.  I'm talking to the rational people out
there who don't think, like Gritz, that I'm the spawn of Satan. 

>So far, I've seen a lot of defensiveness, and 
>insecurity around the situation of Jews in America(which I see as
>similar to the attempts in the 40's to deny that certain Sicilian ethnic 
>Mafias really existed) 

One difference is that (1) there's no Jewish analogue to the Mafia, and
that (2) no one was calling for the mass execution of Sicilians.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14612 soc.culture.jewish:26051
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jewish Bankers
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:48:23 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan25.083137.28783@StarConn.com> rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns) writes:
>Mr. Frank, let me ask you:
>
>1) Do you feel it is sheer and utter coincidence that several of the
>   most prominent financial criminals in recent decades have been Jewish
>   (i.e. Ivan Boesky, Michael Milken, Meyer Lansky)? 

Given that the vast majority of Jewish bankers accused by Giulani have
been exonerated, I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I note that you leave out Charles Keating, the Silverado scandal, every
single S&L in Texas, etc.  Non-Jews do perfectly fine in producing
financial criminals.

>Would it be fair 
>   to say that just as Jews have produced a disproportionate number of
>   doctors, lawyers and Nobel prize winners, they produced a
>   disproportionate number of certain types of criminals.

No, it wouldn't.  What have you named, three from over a sixty-year
period?  I can come up with the hundred non-Jews to balance the
proportions.  Easily.  And then another hundred to show that Jews
are disproportionately underrepresented.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why Jews get the publicity.  I guess
the "Zionist-controlled" media prefers singling out the Jewish bankers.

>2) Do you think it would be fair to say that the cohesiveness and
>   and educational strengths of the Jewish community have contributed to
>   the production of this particular breed of criminals?

No.  Please show me how "cohesiveness" and "educational strengths" led
to the conviction of Michael Milken on the most puny of technicalities.

>3) Do you think it fair to say that the production of this particular
>   type of criminal is utterly incomprehensible to people who haven't
>   had much direct exposure to cosmopolitan cultures?

Perhaps.

>Personally, I see Gritz's speculation in the same vein as the attempts
>of ignorant people to attempt to undertand the dynamics of organized
>crime-and Mr. Frank's comments in the vein of comments that attempted
>to deny the existance of the Mafia.

And what evidence do you have of a "Jewish banking Mafia"?
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: monaghan@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (N.O. Monaghan)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz/CFR/Trilaterals
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:20:58 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

NLG Civil Liberties Committee <cberlet@igc.apc.org> writes:
>basis. We have repeatedly presented facts showing statements by Gritz that are
>anti-Jewish, and his close working relationship with racist and fascist

Rubbish. Nobody has shown any material whatsoever that Gritz is a
fascist - I do not know Gritz or his policies - but nothing has been
given on this group to show that he is either a fascist or has supported
fascism.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
N.O. Monaghan

monaghan@dcs.gla.ac.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz/CFR/Trilaterals
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:42:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1jvvqjINNd53@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>
>Tell me, Ted Frank, Chip Berlett, and other apologists for the CFR and
>Trilateral Commission:
>
>Is it possible for me to believe and promote the idea that the
>CFR/Trilateral Commission are sinister organizations devoted to
>establishing a global dictatorship superceding the Consititution and
>U.S. sovereignty without being branded an anti-Semite?  Or does the one
>automatically imply the other?

   It may be "guilt by association" but it's a pretty consistent
   association.  Most of the major figures whom I've heard/seen 
   take the tack that there's a big international secret conspiracy
   to control the world manage to implicate the Jews in the process.

   And in particular Bo Gritz, the Subject: of this thread, is 
   clearly a racist and antisemite.   

   I have yet to see a serious and sober analysis backed up 
   with any verifiable data that there IS a plot by the CFR
   or Trilateral commission or "international bankers" or whatnot
   to take over the world.   So far the quality of the evidence
   presented here for that has been of the same calibre as the 
   UFO evidence we sometimes get here: FOAF, innuendo, etc.


---peter

Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14684 soc.culture.african.american:14367
From: taylor@hojo.larc.nasa.gov (Barney Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Masons
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:55:44 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hojo.larc.nasa.gov

In article <Lm0ZXB1w165w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:

|>  I have to agree about the Catholic Church but I sorely disagree about
|>  the masons.  While we hear almost monthly about some priest gone astray
|>  in one wicked way or other we are lucky to hear each decade about 
|>  about the masonic fraternity.

You have to know where to look. Most Masonic lodges follow the practice of the ancient
Kemet's mystery system. (i.e. they are highly secret, even until death) This means that
corrupt information, or any information for that matter, will never (for the most part)
be broadcasted via media or newspaper.

Barney,

_________________________________________
NASA Computer Scientist / Software Engineer

The previous comments do not represent the
opinions of my employer or the government in
any part.

Hetep
-------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Masons
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:17:06 GMT

In article <9DNVXB1w165w@status.gen.nz> jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes:
:> There is a big divide between US and european freemasonry. The latter was ver
: 
: Opps no-one told us European's this. When was this the case, and where
: did you get such dis-information from ?

:> The corrupt P2 lodge and the banco ambrosiano scandal show that freemasonry h
:> a very shaddy side. Mafia and fascist infiltration is widespread. They were a
: 
: Ah no I see where you get your dis-information from. Fairy stories.
: Please for the sake of the readers in this news.group understand the
: differnce between Freemasonary and a Friendly society/fraternity.

Perhaps the first poster should have said 'there's a big difference between
european and non-european freemasonry', since clearly at least one part of
NZ hasn't a clue.  The sinister side of the Italian lodges is well documented.

Graham
PS How old's your granny?
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Yale Law One-World Government?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 08:57:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Ted, I'm curious. Have you actually SEEN a copy of the Yale Law 
Alumni list, or has your characterization of it and comparison
with the CFR membership 
been based simply on speculation.

-Steve