HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Last 10 lbs / Losing Control
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 06:09:22 GMT

In article <16069@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>>I don't mean to deny other people's experiences on this topic, but
>>I think I am gifted with being oblivious.  I have never ever received
>>any abuse or been victim of any discrimination for being heavy.  That
>>I'm aware of, of course.
>You couldn't have been a fat kid then, or else the schools you
>went to were very much different from the ones I did.

I was really only thinking of my experience as an adult.
I was always a heavy kid, and sure I got the typical amount
of abuse that you expect from kids.  I'd have probably got
a fair amount of it anyway, being unathletic and smart.
I'd just chalk it up as not wonderful but unremarkable.

>With the loss of weight, the self-esteem climbed
>immensely, and at this point, I think people think I have too much
>of it.

:-)

>Being sensitive to it, I know that many people form stereotypical judgements
>of obese people.  It happens a lot.  Let me tell you about just
>one case.  Another professor and I visited a chemistry professor
>whose office was very cluttered.  The chemist was obese.  After
>we left, the other man said "ever notice how fat people have
>sloppy offices?"  

So, what did you say to this guy, Gordon?  I hope you were standing
up for our honor. :-) :-)

I've got plenty of things to worry about; the comments of an
obvious jerk don't make that much of an impression on me,
though I'd love to see him die a slow and painful death,
if that's possible. :-/

>Regardless of my telling myself I was a worthwhile person,
>knowing that some people couldn't stand the sight of me
>was still painful psychologically, at least it was for me.

I dunno, when I see a very obese person, I generally think to myself:
"Oh, a very obese person."  I mean, I don't think revulsion is the
first thing which comes to most people's minds.  I suppose in the
sexual arena, this can be an issue, but at the same time, there
are plenty of people who like heavy people.  I mean, just look
at Avery Coulter salivating on the sidelines.

>Oh, I know that.  But when I gain enough weight that I have "love
>handles" I get very self-conscious of taking my shirt off.

Gad.  I know even very thin people who have love handles.
Gordon, you're over 40 years old.  You're SUPPOSED to have
love handles! :-)

>I expect it had something to do with the ridicule I got in junior
>high school phys ed classes from the other boys.  But at this point, I
>just can't help it.  And when I'm thin with no handles, I vainly love to
>have people take my picture out boating or at the beach.  Silly, I know.

Not silly at all, but interesting.  Whatever motivates you.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

I just ran into this group (Hi Teri!) but I'll pass on the infor
from my weight management course.

First off, I should mention that I lost about 185 pounds on a
medically supervised fast (HMR), then managed to diet off 15 more.
I've been at my target weight of 195 since last October, and have
been off the fast since June, 1991.  BTW, what works for me is
not necessarily workable for anybody else; weight management has
become a major focus of my life, and I made major lifestyle
changes.  (Can you say goodbye couch potato and hello bicycle/
walking shoes/gardening equipment?)

HMR suggests for those on the fast, that they do *not* weigh every
day.  Even if you are losing a bunch of weight per week, there will
be some days when you aren't losing any.  Water changes will affect
things, including water retention by muscles after hard workouts.
To avoid discouragement, we weighed in once a week, and used that
number for calorie and exercise calculations.

Once on maintenance (whether dieting or trying to maintain) we are
supposed to weight once a day.  This serves as fast feedback, and
also reveals the water variations.  I keep close track of my weight
and both calories incoming and outgoing, so I seldom need to make
weight corrections (read "diet").  Still, I'll see variations, bot
from water retention and from food in the system.  I'm now a
semi-vegetarian (no red meat, 6-8 ounces of tuna and/or chicken
each day) and eat 10-20 servings of fruits and vegies a day (as I
said, this is not necessarily useful or necessary for others; it
woreks for me to keep off all that weight).  On days when I've had
a bunch of vegies, I'll weigh more until the solids get flushed.
Conversely, on the odd day when I *don't* eat my vegies, I'll weigh
less.  Similarly, some medications will screw up water retetion.  It
appears that decongestants serve as a diuretic; at least I've lost
some weight that I can't account for over the past few days due to
them.  (I'm was also trying a new bicycling regime before getting
clobbered by a sinus infection, and I might have the calories/mile
figure off for hill climbing.)

In short, if you weigh every day, you will have to accept some noise
in the readings.  If you feel uncomfortable with that noise, try to weight
less often, but at a regular interval.  It also helps to make the
conditions the same every time.  I wieigh just before breakfast, in
street clothing, but no shoes.  This lets me cross-correlate to HMR's
weekly weighin.

BTW, use a good scale.  Spring scales can wear out and can give *very*
erronious readings.  I bought a health-o-meter balance scale, and it
is calibrated to the clinic scales.

Pete Brooks
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: How come I don't lose weight?
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:10:10 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: jhaas@healthy.uwaterloo.ca's message of 13 Aug 92 15:55:46 GMT


In article <BsxIwz.ECv@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> jhaas@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (J. Haas) writes:

   I have a basic question: since May 92 I walk rather briskly
   4-5 lunchhours per week (50 mins.) How come I haven't lost
   weight. My eating habits have NOT changed. 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The conventional wisdom seems to be that, if you're a sedentary person
with unhealthy eating habits, you must start an exercise program AND 
change your eating habits in order to lose weight (that is, in order
to do it in a safe and healthy manner).  So you need to look at both.
You say your eating habits haven't changed, but you don't say what they
are.  If they're like mine used to be (cheese steak for lunch, WOOF!), 
I think you could probably exercise until you dropped without a whole
lot of results.  
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:00:23 GMT
Subject: Re: How come I don't lose weight?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

[Humble apology mode on].

Sorry folks; it is 3500 calories per pound.  So for the previous example,
the weight loss would occur at 2-1/3 weeks per pound.

The numbers layed out seemed pretty cold, but one of the most important
lessons that *I* had to learn was to trust the numbers.  My weight loss/
management program, HMR (end plug) preaches the benefits of exercise
(aka PA for physical activity; housework is fair game!) as well as other
things.  They give a list of activities and typical numbers per unit for
them.  In most cases, I have found that these numbers really work.

For what it's worth, I (being an extreme case) generally do 12,000 calories
worth of PA per week.  This includes 10 miles a day of walking, or
30 miles per day on my mountain bike (40/day on the road bike).

For people with mor normal needs, HMR *strongly* recommends that a person
do 2000 calories worth of PA per week.  (They normally deal with people who
have lost 30-40 pounds on the fast.  I am keeping off 200 pounds..)
Getting back to the 150 pound person, this equates to 20 miles per week,
or a bit under 3 miles per day.  According to HMR, physical activity is
the best predictor of weight control, though other factors also take
account.  (They also list 35 servings of fruits and vegies per week
and maintaining a low-fat environment as the other two of their three
imperatives.)  [For my needs, I tend to eat more like 100+ servings of
fruits and vegies per week.  It helps to have the room to garden, both
for the activity and the produce.]

Pete Brooks
From: mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Iced Tea (was Re: Diet soft drinks)
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:54:15 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University

In article <1992Aug14.160400.2622@chpc.utexas.edu> jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd) writes:
>Any iced tea drinkers out there?  I've recently discovered the flavored
>teas (Bigelow, Celestial Seasonings, etc) like Mint and Wild Mountain 
>Blackberry.  You can either make a picture of all flavored tea, or you 
>can use one of the flavored bags along with the 3 or 4 other plain tea 
>bags you use to add a little "interest" to the tea.
>
>Jan

I like Morning Thunder hot or iced....  Love that caffine zing!

Margot



--
=====================================================================
=          H A V E   A   D A Y             :|                       =
=====================================================================
From: v087n562@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Lewis A Bernstein)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Pierogies
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:54:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

from what I understand a pierogy is a Polish ethnic food.
Not only do they come in the varieties that I have seen mentioned,
but there is also a bread/saurkraut combination that seems
to be popular in the Buffalo area.  Of course, I have never made
pierogy, just seen some friends grandparents make/eat  them.
I have also never seen these in supermarkets.  
But, YES, people have heard of them.

							Lew
From: jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Modified Muffins...
Organization: Center for High Performance Computing, Univ. of Texas System
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:40:40 GMT

In article <16841B8B0.M21444@mwvm.mitre.org>, M21444@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
|>  
|> I made Dannon muffins last night (but used Columbo non-fat instead
|> of Dannon and blackberries instead of blueberries/raspberries).
|> They were pretty tasty but had one minor flaw...instead of being
|> cakey and tender like regular muffins, they were sort of tough.
|> I sort of had to pull them in half instead of just breaking.
|>  
|> I can't figure out why....could it be because they had no fat,
|> or does that happen to anybody's fat-filled muffins?  Could I
|> have baked them too long?  It was hard to tell when they were
|> done because the batter was already a brownish color (due to the
|> cinnamon and nutmeg).
|>  
|> I'd still take a fat-free, tough muffin over a fatty, cakelike
|> muffin any day, but I'd rather have fat-free AND cakelike.
|>  
|> Chris (cwechter@mitre.org)

Me too!

I've been trying the fat-free versions of the muffins, quick breads,
and even oatmeal cookies last weekend (I used 1 cup applesauce instead 
of 1 cup Crisco), and even though they are far from awful (how's that
for diplomacy :-), they are definitely not identical or even very close 
to what I'm used to.  Everything seems drier (naturally - all that fat
provides a much moister, smoother texture that it'll have without it),
more dense and doughy.  The cookies had a good enough _taste_, but the
texture was just all wrong.  My zucchini bread was flat (literally), 
hard, and dry, although, once again, the taste was O.K.  But I'm finding
that taste without a pleasing texture is not good enough.

I think the theory behind all this is that if you NEVER AGAIN eat or
think of the old-style, fat-laden pastries you've always loved, eventually
you'll forget what they're really like, and these nutritious, low-fat 
"alternatives" will finally start to taste "right".  It's just, right now, 
for me, they don't.

Sorry for being so cynical this morning.  (I'm just annoyed that my
experimentation with the oatmeal cookies wasn't a success - I ate one,
my husband ate one, my 2 small children each had a 1/2 of one, and the 
remainder of the 3 1/2 dozen are still sitting there.)

Jan
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: M21444@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Modified Muffins...
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:07:54 GMT

 
 
I made Dannon muffins last night (but used Columbo non-fat instead
of Dannon and blackberries instead of blueberries/raspberries).
They were pretty tasty but had one minor flaw...instead of being
cakey and tender like regular muffins, they were sort of tough.
I sort of had to pull them in half instead of just breaking.
 
I can't figure out why....could it be because they had no fat,
or does that happen to anybody's fat-filled muffins?  Could I
have baked them too long?  It was hard to tell when they were
done because the batter was already a brownish color (due to the
cinnamon and nutmeg).
 
I'd still take a fat-free, tough muffin over a fatty, cakelike
muffin any day, but I'd rather have fat-free AND cakelike.
 
Chris (cwechter@mitre.org)
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Low/no fat cornbread
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:41:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Last night I used the recipe on the cornmeal box EXCEPT I eliminated
all fat and used the Ener-G egg replacer for the egg required. I used
skim milk in place of regular.

It was good!

Generally I add 1/4 cup chopped chilis or 1/4 c. green salsa and 2 tsp
chili powder and 1/2-1 cup canned ( or cooked fresh) corn,too. I will
do this tonite and let you know!

Best wishes.

rf
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Modified Muffins...
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:45:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


I wanted to make a suggestion regarding fat-free muffins...

I have had a few that weren't very cake-like. I think it is the lack
of eggs. I was wondering if anyone had tried using the vegetarian egg
substitutes to fix this? I use them for other things but thought they
might be good in baking for this reason.....


Anyone ever tried them?
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd)
Subject: Re: NEED SUPPORT NOW
Organization: Center for High Performance Computing, Univ. of Texas System
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:05:03 GMT

In article <oeYFdpi00iUz82_Vpw@andrew.cmu.edu>, Judi Mancuso <jm5p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> Hi--
|> I have returned from my beach vacation,had a fabulous time, ate amazing
|> gourmet food, drank superb wine--then watched the videos.  That should
|> say it all.  
|> I have been on and off the net now for months and think the support is
|> fabulous.  These 40 lbs.I have been wrestling with must go and I think I
|> am ready.  WW is my prime program--I lost 83 there 7 years ago.  I need
      ^^^^^
|> advice, encouragement and support and lots of it--NOW.  Thanks, Judi.
|> P.S.  I'd love success stories too.  You can e-mail me if you want. 

You definitely sound ready, and I'm inspired to hear that someone is 
actually going to return to WW before they have regained ALL the weight
they lost.  Usually I hear about people who lost 50 and now need to lose
80.

Go for it!

Jan
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Last 10 lbs / Losing Control
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:39:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.173659.1471@wam.umd.edu> mneow@wam.umd.edu (Who wants to know?) writes:
>I agree with Lisa who believes that losing just 10 or 20 pounds would change
>a lot for us.

Well, write us when you've achieved that.  Losing 10-20 pounds means
that you lose 10-20 pounds, and gain the advantages from that (a sense
of accomplishment, feeling fitter, looking trimmer), assuming you
needed to lose that weight to begin with.  But that's about all.  Now,
that's more than enough, of course, but don't expect it to bring you
happiness or acceptance or boyfriends or girlfriends or anything else,
because you might be setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

>But I think that if anyone     
>here is concerned and worried about their health enough to post
>looking for support, then no matter how severe their problem,
>they need that support and understanding...I almost gave up
>on the group...

When you have a lot of weight to lose, 10-20 lbs. seems like a very
little.  Of course, when you're dissatisfied with your weight, it
doesn't matter how much it is.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: tlh8c@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Thomas Lee Horton)
Subject: Re: Iced Tea (was Re: Diet soft drinks)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:02:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.165503.3617@vax.muskingum.edu> geschwent@vax.muskingum.edu writes:
>>> Any iced tea drinkers out there?  I've recently discovered the flavored
>>> teas (Bigelow, Celestial Seasonings, etc) like Mint and Wild Mountain 
>>> Blackberry.  You can either make a picture of all flavored tea, or you 
>>> can use one of the flavored bags along with the 3 or 4 other plain tea 
>>> bags you use to add a little "interest" to the tea.
>
>I agree--they're great. I think loose or bagged tea gives you terrific
>flavor. They're even easy to drink without sugar or *that stuff* in it.
>The most delicious easy iced tea is Nestea's Lemon-flavored iced tea, and
>just throw in a heaping tablespoon of frozen orange concentrate with it/per
>about gallon of tea. People love it, and the orange sweetens it for those
>who want that :-)
>



If I could, I'd drink nothing else but Diet Nestea with Lemon.
It comes already made in a half-gallon carton, and lately one supermarket
has had it half-price-- 64 cents!  It's fantabulous.

BTW, I'm back from my fantastic vacation.  No lighter-- but no heavier!

Tom



Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: M21444@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: e: Packing Lunches
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:13:54 GMT

 
I have a bunch of different salads that I make -- usually
involving beans and veggies with little or no fat.  I'll
bring some of the salad and some whole wheat pita bread,
and stuff the salad into the bread.  That makes it more
fun to eat, for some reason.
 
For a hot meal, I'll cook some rice ahead of time in my
rice cooker, and bring it with some Health Valley fat-free
chili (several varieties) or lentils & veggies.  I usually
spruce it up w/ some hot sauce, thawed frozen corn, tomatoes,
or whatever.  That stuff is kind of  expensive, but it's quick.
I'm working on making similar dishes from scratch to freeze.
 
I also splurge on red and yellow and orange peppers when
they're available...lately they've been a little cheaper.
They're so good by themselves you don't need any dip.
Sometimes, if I'm having tuna or chicken salad, I'll bring
a whole pepper, cut in half, and stuff that with the salad
instead of bread.  Yum!
 
Also a couple pieces of fresh fruit, and maybe a fat-free
pudding...or vanilla fat-free yogurt.
 
And I always bring a few snacks, like someone else suggested.
A couple of big, hard pretzels or some dry Cheerios, maybe
some more peppers or fruit, or a bag of those ready-to-eat
carrots.
 
Here are some salad ideas:
 
Spicy bean and corn salad:
 
1 can Old El Paso Mexe-beans (pinto beans in chili sauce), drained
1.5 cups frozen corn, thawed
1 rib celery, chopped fine
1/2 green pepper, chopped fine
1/4 to 1/2 cup picante sauce
 
Mix it all up!
 
 
Cannellini salad:
 
1 can cannellini beans (white kidneys), drained and rinsed
1 large tomato, chopped
1 small onion, chopped
1/2 green pepper, chopped
1/2 cucumber, chopped
2 Tablespoons lemon juice                                1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon olive oil
freshly ground black pepper to taste
1/2 teaspoon ground cumin, or to taste
salt if you must
 
This is from the American Heart Association cookbook,
and it's really tasty.  The lemon juice and beans
form a really good sauce.
 
 
Baked bean salad:
 
1 can baked beans
chopped veggies -- tomatoes, onions, peppers, etc.
bottled hot sauce to taste, or mustard, ketchup, whatever
From: lmc@duke.cs.duke.edu (Lynn Mueller Canaday)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Zucchini(SP?) bread - nonfat
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:16:10 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <12AUG92.09552615@medgen.waisman.wisc.edu>, mommaerts@medgen.waisman.wisc.edu writes:

DELETIONS

|>I would like to try it again cuz I have MORE zucchini--- Also, does anyone
|>know how this might count for Weight Watchers people like myself?  I am think-
|> ing a bread or something??
|> 
|>Anyways-- Keep up the good work guys! Keep posting!!
|> 
|> --Sandi

I can't help you on your recipe, but I would like to say to those of
you who seek TRUE WW exchanges go to your group leader and get her
to analyze your recipes.  All of them should be able to get it done
for you if they can't do it themselves.  My sister gets hers done
all of the time and one of her recipes is so good we have convinced
her to submit it to WW so that she can get it into the next WW
cookbook.  I would post her recipe, but I think I am not allowed
to until they decide if they are going to publish it or not.  Anyway,
I would like to say this group is great for getting new ideas for
replacing high fat ingredients in recipes.  If I ever get a chance to
cook again I will use them.  THANKS!

Lynn
From: jnorberg@jaguar.csc.wsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Diet soft drinks
Date: 14 Aug 1992 06:23:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Washington State University

In article <1992Aug13.232838.29345@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone here have suggestions on which typical, store bought diet beverages
> taste "the best"?  I realize that expecting a diet soda to taste like the


I am absolutely addicted to A&W Diet Cream Soda!!   :)

I never liked cream soda before...  but a friend talked me into trying a can
(I was expecting it to taste just awful!), and I've been hooked ever since.
It's even flavored with real vanilla extract!


John   jnorberg@jaguar.csc.wsu.edu
From: geschwent@vax.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Lunches & new jeans
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:14:54 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

Hi, everybody! Thanks for posting the recipes (esp. the nonfat potato(e)
salad. Marie, I hope you're feeling better, and hang in there! When I was 
going through finals, and finishing off a ton of programs, I brought a gallon 
bag full of raw veggies into the center every night, and
ate those instead of regular snacks. It occurs to me that when I start working
again, that I'll probably keep something like that around. My favorite lunch?
A can of tuna fish with 1 WW fat's worth of diet salad dressing + 1 tsp. sweet
mustard, and *lots* of small-cut celery, onions, green peppers, water 
chestnuts, and other crunchy stuff. It counts as 2 protein and 1 fat, and when
you stuff it into a pita, it looks like a lot, and you don't feel deprived. Or
maybe it's low fat ratatouille, with a little cheese melted on top.

I finally got the nerve up to try on new jeans, fully expecting to take home
the size smaller than I'd been wearing (which was itself 1 down from my top
weight)--and keep them in the kitchen as motivation for the week or two it 
might take them to fit. It fits already! I tried on 3 pairs in the smaller
size to make sure it wasn't a fluke, and bought the tightest ones (still
comfortable). Yes, we can do it! Everybody, be nice to yourselves!

Patricia
-- 
P.K.
Geschwent@vax.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet