HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)
Subject: Re: Distinguishing 3.0 binaries
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:40:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.022044.9702@nevada.edu> oliverm@nevada.edu (Moises  
Oliveira) writes:
> Since you're cleaning up, the least I can do is help.  the program you need  
to
> use is called otool, and comes with the extended release.

I received several responses that all said about the same
thing.  Since I have a fantastic collection of old
NeXTstep releases, I will post a sh script here shortly
that identifies binaries of as many as I can manage.  This
should be fun!

Thanks for the responses.  Unless you've another method,
I think I'm set.  Thanks again- NeXTpeople are great. :-)

Allen B (And they're fast too)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: Alex Raftis
Subject: Re: Glowing Article on NS 3.0 in UnixWorld
Reply-To: alex@cosmos.acs.calpoly.edu
Organization: Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:38:54 GMT

Jonathan L Neuenschwander writes
>
>Now the last time I saw the FAQ relating to NeXTStep486, it said that there
>wouldn't be any support for for DOS/Windows initially, something I always
>viewed as being a potentially fatal flaw.  So did UnixWorld mess up, or WILL 
>it be possible to run DOS/Windows?
>

There probably won't be native support in the OS, but note, you can run
multiple DOS and Windows sessions on your NeXT now, just by SoftPC. I 
assume Insignia will have a version of SoftPC for NS 486 for sale on about
the same day NeXT releases it. Also, it should be _a_lot_ faster under
NS 486, due to the way a 486 allows you to set up a virtual PC. This makes
emulation very simple and fast, though I suppose graphics will still be a
small problem.

Alex
--
______________________________________________________
    Internet: alex@data.acs.calpoly.edu (NeXT mail)
              alex@cosmos.acs.calpoly.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: mek@guinan.psu.edu (Mark E. Kotanchek)
Subject: Re: MATLAB (the missing piece)
Organization: Penn State Center for Academic Computing
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:58:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.101423.4758@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>  
gbrown@raven.ctr.columbia.edu (Glenn Brown) writes:
> Personally, I think that considering the size of the NeXT market, we  
> should be thankful that MATLAB will be ported to the NeXT at all.  The  
> software companies are going to write for sun sparcstations (and  
therefore  
> X, the prefered windowing system for sparcs) before NeXTs as a matter of  
> course, and the only reason there will be a port the small NeXT market  
is  
> that the NeXT also runs X on unix and is therefore easy to port to.
> 
> Obviously, NeXTstep is a far better windowing system than X:  It far  
> easier from a programming point of view (though it is harder to  
customize  
> than the X window managers). NeXT has the right idea:  Get NeXTstep  
> running on as many machines as possible and then more software will be  
> ported to NeXTstep.  This is a big reason NeXTstep is now running on  
> 486's.  Personally, I think that NeXTstep should be ported to sparcs,  
> also.  That would be best for the world of users... though it might not  
be  
> best for NeXT.
> 
> --Glenn

I'm going to have to disagree on the contention, "Personally, I think that  
considering the size of the NeXT market, we should be thankful that MATLAB  
will be ported to the NeXT at all." If it is cost-effective for Maple,  
Mathematica, FrameMaker, Illustrator, Improv, etc. to be ported to  
NeXTstep, it should be cost-effective for MATLAB or MATRIXx to be ported.  
NeXT IS losing sales because of the absence of numerical analysis tools.

On the other hand, maybe I AM out to lunch since NeXTworld doesn't include  
such a product in their "10 most wanted" list. I guess number-crunching  
isn't important to the liberal artsy/business types who rate with NeXT.

I may be out to lunch--but I'm STILL pissed off!

Mark.
--
Mark Kotanchek
Guidance & Control Dept - 363 ASB
Applied Research Lab/Penn State
P.O. Box 30
State College, PA 16804

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: marauder@wam.umd.edu
Subject: Re: Glowing Article on NS 3.0 in UnixWorld
Reply-To: marauder@wam.umd.edu
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:09:33 GMT

In article <jonathan.721383969@author.ecn.purdue.edu>  
jonathan@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Jonathan L Neuenschwander) writes:
> I recently picked up the November issue of UnixWorld, and was pleasantly
> surprised by the optimistic and upbeat review of NextStep 3.0.  It is in
> the "Product of the Month" column even!  Nice change from the general 
> NeXT-had-some-good-ideas-too-bad-they're-doomed fare I'm used to seeing.

	Other articles mentioning NeXT include:
	
		p. 11 - Editoral:  CISC vs. RISC
		p. 52 - Sunsoft
		p. 57 -  Doesn't mention NeXT, but paint the new 
			SPARCstation 10 black, and you've got something 
			that looks like one.  :-)
		p. 87 - <shudder>  Wordperfect in UN*X.  (They say Wordimperfect
			for NeXT is in Beta????)

	You ever notice when you're flipping through your favorite computer  
journal, that the phrases, "Next step", "Next generation", "Next ..." keep  
coming up?  So you instantly start reading the article, only to find that  
they are talking about Windows NT or something similarly worthless.  Also,  
notice how the new machines read like last years NeXTs?  :-)

				Joe


--
Joseph Jacobson          | "Man is a rope stretched between
marauder@wam.umd.edu     |    the animal and the Superman--     
marauder@ENG.UMD.EDU     |    a rope over an abyss"
NeXT mail accepted!      |        --FRIEDRICH WILHELM NIETZSCHE
From: alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Checksum software
Keywords: checksum software
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:49:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.61807
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <lfj225INN675@ai.cs.utexas.edu> yu@cs.utexas.edu (Yeong-Ho Yu) writes:
> Several months ago, there was a mention on a public domain software which
> calculates some type of checksum of a file.

you could try /usr/bin/sum. man sum
available on most Unix platforms including NeXT.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Alex Blakemore alex@cs.umd.edu   NeXT mail accepted
From: anderson@sapir.cog.jhu.edu (Stephen Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: ARG.  Crossposting is a pain!!!
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:58:49 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Cognitive Science, The Johns Hopkins University
In-reply-to: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca's message of 5 Nov 92 17:46:22 GMT

>>>>> On 5 Nov 92 17:46:22 GMT, sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood
Botsford) said:
	sherwood> [argument about why cross-postings are a
        sherwood> nuisance to people who use NewsGrazer]

cat < /dev/null :

Cross postings are an efficient way to reach a variety of readers
without using up (significant) additional news spool space. If your
news reader can't handle them rationally, it is still at most a minor
nuisance to skip the posts you've already seen. There is really no
reason to allow a single piece of outdated software to impose its
least common denominator on the larger community, when there are
plenty of alternatives.

Personally, I use gnus within emacs (within Emacs) to read news via an
nntp connection. With the NGService App that I found on the
Educational Sampler CD-ROM, when there's a posting that uses
NewsGrazer features to go beyond plain text capacity, I can just
select that portion of the message and hand it off via the Services
menu for translation. The best of several worlds, with a pretty good
mouse-oriented front end, threads, efficient handling of cross-posts,
and access to a full range of features beyond ascii text.

--Steve Anderson
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: judd@nosc.mil (Randy Judd)
Subject: Re: MATLAB (the missing piece)
Reply-To: judd@nosc.mil
Organization: NCCOSC, NRaD Division
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:01:29 GMT

Does anybody know if MATLAB for the Macintosh will run on the NeXT under
Executor (sp) ?
                                               Randy Judd
                                               judd@nosc.mil

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Operator)
Subject: Re: MATLAB (the missing piece)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:18:33 GMT

Mathworks email address is na.mathworks@score.stanford.edu

--
=> Sherwood Botsford                   sherwood@space.ualberta.ca <= 
=> University of Alberta         Lab Manager, Space Physics Group <=         
=> tel:403 492-3713                             fax: 403 492-4256 <=         
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer)
Subject: Re: New SUN's, Bad news for NeXT?
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexington, KY
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:00:51 GMT

> zeke@esosun.css.gov.UUCP () writes:
>
>  I just got a look at the new offerings from Sun, and it dosen't look 
>good for NeXT.  
>

The thing to watch out for is the IBM disease Sun has recently acquired.
Your workststion is $4200, but ... Oh you want a compiler for that? That's
extra. Seriously, we are holding back going to a new rev of Sun OS because
they want to charge us for lots of things that used to be free. The harware
is cheap, but the total cost is probably more.

-Chris

From: David.Gursky@p394.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (David Gursky)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: adding file suffix
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 22:53:26 -0500

  HF> I just transfered about 200 Mac tiff files from a Mac HD to my NeXT
  HF> HD. Of course they show up just like text files which I just add the
  HF> .tiff suffix and everthing is fine. But I don't want to change them
  HF> all by hand so the QUESTION is;  is there a neat UNIX thing that will
  HF> allow me to batch them all with the .tiff suffix ??

How about moving them all into a single sub-directory, opening a terminal shell,
moving to the aforementioned directory, and using a command to the effect of "mv
* *.tiff"
From: dblakele@hercules.acpub.duke.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Uncompressing Alien File Formats
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:08:53 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Originator: dblakele@raphael.acpub.duke.edu

Howdy do!

This evening I was strolling through wuarchive.wustl.edu looking for some
ModPlayer files.  What puzzled me, though, was the .lzh and .lha extensions
on the majority of the files.  I suspect that this is an Amiga abbreviation
for a LZW-type file compression or something else.  I've crossed this path
with .hqx extensions for files that have been BinHex'd in the Macintosh
world, but this one had me stumped.  Is there anything in NeXT-ish parlance
or Unix-speak that will uncompress these by chance.  Just curious.  Thanx.

Peace


-- 
| Dean D Blakeley, MD            | Internet:dblakele@acpub.duke.edu           |
| Ambulatory Care Service (11C)  | BITNET:blake007@dukemc.mc.duke.edu         |
| Durham VA Medical Center       | FORUM:blakeley,dean d@durham.va.gov        |
| Durham NC 27705                | NeXTMail accepted  #include <disclaim.h>   |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: kris@coyote.fdn.org (Christophe Janot)
Subject: Re: 3DReality corrupted at Sonata, available elsewhere
Reply-To: kris@coyote.fdn.org (Christophe Janot)
Organization: RNuG
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:10:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.134948.12792@socrates.umd.edu>  
fletcher@socrates.umd.edu (Charles Fletcher) writes:
> Check those addresses and get it!! All I can say is WOW,
> he's done it again.

WOW ?!? Maybe you have found something i didn't. How are you making  
shadows and reflection maps with 3DReality ?

Kris
-- 
Christophe Janot      -----/   /       -|  /---      /----   / /   /
e-mail & NeXTMail :       /   /__   __  | /___      /_  ____/ /|  /
kris@coyote.fdn.org      /\  /   \      |     \    /   /   / /  |/
                      ____/  \___/      | ____/ * /    \__/ /   /
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Glowing Article on NS 3.0 in UnixWorld
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:39:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: metrosof.1992Nov12.163915.10553
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Metrosoft

In article <1992Nov11.031131.150747@zeus.calpoly.edu>  
mrothste@keiko.acs.calpoly.edu (Rothstein) writes:
> 
> P.S.  I dream that if I have to program in DOS/Windows that I will do it  
> w/ Borland's C++ under NeXTSTEP.  The irony is too much to resist.
> 

Wow - that IS weird...
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: avery@scruffy.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Avery Wang)
Subject: Are there any Renderman *.rib files available?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 02:15:35 GMT

Hi NeXT fans-
I asked this question a few months ago but I haven't seen any answers:

Does anyone know if there are any example .rib files available from some FTP  
site somewhere?  There must be such a library out there somewhere, unless  
they're all proprietary.  After all, there are tons of *.tiff, *.gif, etc.  
files available on archives all over the place.  So what about the 3rd  
dimension??

What would be nice would be some scenes from some ILM productions, but those  
are likely to be proprietary.

Thanks,
	Avery Wang
From: maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Maurice Shihadi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Does AppleTalk DO anything?
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:39:30 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

Hi,

I'm using an SE/30 with a Techworks ethernet card.  Do I need any other
software--such as Appletalk 3.0--to get things to work.  I've tried
everything I can think of but when I start up the NeXTstation running
NS 3.0 the boot up procedure stops and says that it cannot find a server
press controll-C to continue.  Any ideas.

maurices
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: New RISC chip?
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 11:55:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.121324.21742@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> nhaldar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Neil A Haldar) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.112552.21376@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> swiet@syzygy.cs.jhu.edu (Al
>exander Swietlicki) writes:
>>    I picked up a copy of Byte today, and aside from a mediocre
>>review of NeXT (no fair, they placed a mono classic slab against machines
>>priced in the $10-$36,000 range and complained), there was a blurb about
>>some new RISC chip: the IMS3250 which is supposed to run at 100 Mhz, 90 Mips,
>>and be able to emulate both a 486@25Mhz and a 68040@30Mhz.  Here's the
>>kicker: it's supposed to cost between $50 and $60 in production quantities.
>>Wonder what effect this'll have on the industry?  Heheh...imagine: NeXTSTEP
>>and NeXTSTEP486 on the same box.  :)
>
>Umm... this ISN'T the same chip going in the PowerPC/Pink thingy between 
>Apple/IBM, right?  I can see the 486 emulation, but for the 68040 emulation... 
>wow...
>
>I'd gander that the methods of memory allocation and caching are completely 
>different between the Intel and Motorola lines, and I can't believe that 
>someone's solved that problem at that low a price...

Yeah, someone mentioned this to me at the last hAng meeting.  Now, I'm
no processor architecture wiz, but it sounds like complete B.S. to me.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "Carpe Nocturn - I get more work done after
Andrew Loewenstern      |  2 a.m. than most people do all day."
Cube Technologies, Inc. |                          - Simson Garfinkel
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: swiet@syzygy.cs.jhu.edu (Alexander Swietlicki)
Subject: New RISC chip?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:25:52 GMT

	I picked up a copy of Byte today, and aside from a mediocre
review of NeXT (no fair, they placed a mono classic slab against machines
priced in the $10-$36,000 range and complained), there was a blurb about
some new RISC chip: the IMS3250 which is supposed to run at 100 Mhz, 90 Mips,
and be able to emulate both a 486@25Mhz and a 68040@30Mhz.  Here's the
kicker: it's supposed to cost between $50 and $60 in production quantities.
Wonder what effect this'll have on the industry?  Heheh...imagine: NeXTSTEP
and NeXTSTEP486 on the same box.  :)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: ARG.  Crossposting is a pain!!!
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:46:22 GMT


Ok, so some of you use Tin, RN, NN or other clever non-nextish  
newsreader.  But there are a hoard of us who use NewsGrazer with all  
it's faults.

So I see the same article two, three, ... many times when some idgit  
cross posts.

Most of us read most of the groups, so cross posting isn't necessary.   
If it clearly fits into one group, put it there.  If sort of fits in  
two, flip a coin. (e.g. a printer problem could be hardware or  
sysadmin)  Chances are pretty good that whoever has something cogent to  
say reads both of those groups anyway.

cat /dev/null > Flames
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer
From: audley@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Christopher D Audley)
Subject: DOCUMENTATION for NeXTstep 3.0
Keywords: Addison-Wesley Documentation
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:42:34 GMT

OK, Its early November.  Has anyone seen the 3.0 documentation that
Addison-Wesley was supposed to ship by now.

In keeping with the NeXT tradition, I expected A-W to announce 3mo shipping
delays :-)

Chris

-- 
Christopher D. Audley
Elec & Comp Engineering
The Johns Hopkins University
Internet: audley@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: ice@socrates.umd.edu (Fredrik Nyman)
Subject: Re: New SUN's, Bad news for NeXT?
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:16:52 GMT

songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer) writes:

>The thing to watch out for is the IBM disease Sun has recently acquired.
>Your workststion is $4200, but ... Oh you want a compiler for that? That's
>extra. Seriously, we are holding back going to a new rev of Sun OS because
>they want to charge us for lots of things that used to be free. The harware
>is cheap, but the total cost is probably more.
And this is from a kinda-sorta IBM guy? (Assuming Lexmark is still
owned by IBM) ;-) 

Yes, Sun C isn't free anymore.  NeXT is.  BUT: NeXT uses a hacked gcc,
and probably didn't have to do anywhere near as much compiler
development work as Sun did.  You can get gcc for Sparc/Solaris-2 for
free, so the C compiler isn't really an issue.

The other NeXT software, however, is immensely valuable to a
developer.  (Don't read this, NeXT:) If I was making a living
developing NeXT software (I'm not) I would pay a large amount of 
money for IB if it wasn't bundled with the OS.

I can actually understand Sun's reasoning.  Software support is *very*
expensive so it makes sense for Sun (and possibly everyone else) that
only those who *need* the tech support for, say, Sun C, pay for it.
If you buy 100 SPARCs to run some generic application such as
FrameMaker, would you really be interested in paying ~100 per box for
software and support you don't use?  (The $100 figure is a guess; I
figured that if 1 SPARC in 20 is used for development, the per-machine
cost for C would be 1/20 of the $2000 SunC license fee).

We're seeing a situation now where high-end PCs and low-end PCs are
having similar performance and are used for running shrinkwrapped
software, so it's hardly surprising that PCs and workstations are
becoming similar in terms of what the vendor bundles with the OS.

Not a flame,
Fredrik
From: jdoenias@next.com (Josh Doenias)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: multiple host renderman rendering?
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:55:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.065228.13194@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
phayes@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick W Hayes) writes:
>
>How does the multiple host rendering work in 3.0? All I ever get in
>the render panel is "localhost." Is there a "render-host manager" or  
something?
>Do I make some netinfo entry? I couldn't find the docs on this, a pointer
>to the right manual is all I should need, but then, digital lib. came up
>with nothing.
>

Yes, there is a "render-host manager".  It's called, oddly enough,  
"RenderManager".
Its in /NextDeveloper/Demos, and it will set up all the necessary netinfo  
entries for you.  It's very similar to PrintManager.

-- josh
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: coco@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (felix.lugo)
Subject: Re: New SUN's, Bad news for NeXT?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:11:44 GMT

In article <1059@esosun.UUCP> zeke@esosun.css.gov.UUCP () writes:
| 
|   These numbers are for the classic and the station which seem to be the same 
| system except for the color option.  The base config for the clasic is as 
| follows,
| 
|   
| 	16 M Ram
| 	15" color monitor ( 1024 x 768 ) 100 DPI
| 	207 MB disk
| 	$4295 ( with discounts for quantity )
| 
|   
|   and for the station LX
| 
| 	16 M Ram
| 	16" color monitor ( a few configs )
| 	42 NB disk
| 	ISDN on motherboard
| 	$7995
| 
| 
|   Add to this Tbase10 ( no thicknet ) and 10MB/sec SCSI 2 and you have a pretty 
| tidy package.  I had a chance to play with a station LX at the demo at UCSD 
| and it seemed real peppy, I neglected to see how huch memory as in it though.
| 
|   Is this good news or bad news for NeXT?  I don't see how it could be good news.

	It's VERY bad news for NeXT hardware!  No news for NeXTSTEP (except,
whatever happens to NeXT hardware would directly affect NeXTSTEP since they're
directly linked until NeXTSTEP486 is available).

	When are the above systems going to be ready?

	Maybe this is a good time for NeXT to re-evaluate their hardware
strategy and decide which future they should follow:  a software ONLY future,
with NeXTSTEP as it's flagship product ported to different platforms (i.e.,
Suns, SGI, etc.), or continue their current trend with their hardware as
their primary source of revenue (not to mention Steve Jobs payoffs)!

--Felix

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From:  (slugg jello)
Subject: Re: Alarm Clock?
Reply-To: slugg@mouthers.wa.com
Organization: Mouthing Flowers
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 09:45:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.171830.8266@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>  
sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:
> mmeltzer@wam.umd.edu writes
> > 
> > Is there a program for the NeXTs that works like a timer, in
> > that, I want an alarm to go off in 10 minutes; when the time
> > elapses, some sort of message appears on the screen telling me
> > so.
> > 
> 
> Try leave.  It's on your system.
> 
> There is also remind, a replacement for calendar.
> 

If you would like an audible alarm, check out a new app called TimeFlies from  
Mouthing Flowers.  It will soon be available through Paget Press's AppWrapper  
and at an Internet site (this is not an official announcement, just a friendly  
leak),
-- 
Doug Kent
slugg@mouthers.wa.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc