From: alex@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Yelmalio (Sun County)
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:53:27 GMT
Organization: Computing Sci, Glasgow Univ, Scotland

>In article <1993Jan19.210420.14386@news.tufts.edu>,
>gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris) writes:
>>	It seems to be pretty much the consensus of the net that the cult of
>>Yelmalio as such is restricted pretty much to the Dragon Pass area

Is that the case?  It seems to make sense in that the cult is centred around
the Yelm-worshiping areas.  Certainly there's a statement to the effect that
there are 15 Sun Dome Temples in southern Peloria, which is where Yelmites
and Orlanthi mix the most.  But does anyone have any strong indication
as to the relative distribution of the two?

>>However, there is one consequence
>>of the creation of Elmalio as opposed to Yelmalio that seems to have been 
>>overlooked
>>	What about Zorak Zoran?

Or in particular: What about the Hill of Gold myth?  I make the distinction
because what confused me about this was not so much Zorak Zoran's role, as
_Orlanth's_.  Zorak Zoran probably wouldn't like Elmal any more than he
does Yelmalio, but Orlanth's relationship must be significantly different.

But from what I gather, the basic form of the myth has not been changed
in historical times.  That is, since the beginning of time, ZZ cultists
have been able to gain fire powers by this means, and Orlanth cultists...
eh, what was that magic weapon subcult?

>>Presumably, the trolls in the West also worship Zorak Zoran.

Yes, indeed: 4% in Guhan, 25% (!!) in Halikiv.

>>  Do they not get these fire powers?  If they do, how is it
>>justified in their mythology?

You could argue that these are an optional extra, in that they are provided
by a sub-cult (Amanstan), and not ZZ directly, but I suspect it's universal.

>>	Also, since presumably ZZ gained these fire powers since time began

No, I think this was a Godtime event.  At the very least, it's been
retconned to be one, but I think it always was.  (These tenses could get a
little confusing.)  That is, in the New Stafford Chronology, at the Dawn
there was a myth of the Hill of Gold involving Orlanth, _Elmal_, and Zorak
Zoran.  And still is, where Elmal is worshiped.

>>Why don't we get the ZZ tales of the great hero who went
>>on the heroquest to gain these powers?

I don't think a Hero was involved, but it's interesting to wonder what
form the hero cycle would take in a case like this, where a Godtime
event is altered by a heroquest.  Are there any known examples of such?
This might help illuminate the earlier thread about heroquesting.  I
don't mean G*d L**rn*r mucking about, but a heroquester with an established
cult.

The closest (but not very) example I can think of is Garundyer, and his
exploits in "liberating" an earlier heroquester, Siglolf Cloudcrusher.
This however involves only historical events, and there's no indication
that this heroquest was extrapolative, or involved retroactive change,
or anything much requiring explaining away.

But if such a change did occur on the Godplane, how would this be told
subsequently?  Did Diety X do Deed Y in the Silver Age, or did Joe
HeroQuester do it last Fireday?  Or some ingenious combination of the two?

In article <1jhsunINNrlb@morrow.stanford.edu>,
jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:
>I think the real reason here is that Greg Stafford has changed his mind.

That's acknowledgely true, according to my understanding.

>Look at Pavis, for example, which gives
>600+ years of history for the Sun Dome Temple. In my mind this is hard to
>reconcile with the Yelmalio cult being formed ~200 years before the present.

I don't have Pavis, so I can only go by the information in Sun County here.
Certainly it's not obvious why the Sun Dome would convert from Elmal to
Yelmalio worship at a time when the County was pretty isolated from the
rest of the world.
-- 
Alex Ferguson.
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