HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:50:18 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Noise Recognition Systems
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Ref:  PJPycroft's posting of Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:20:47 GMT

PAul,

 using transputers and neural networks for recognition of sirens and
alarms seems to me to be overkill. This type of noise recognition can
be carried out fairly easily and more than adequately with a single DSP chip,
and even with a couple of standard Radio Shack components hacked together and
interfaced to a PC.

 If you were talking about *speech* recognition, then neural networks
would be something to think about.
 I gather you want do do something that will be useful for deaf people?
What other options have you looked at?

 I am doing some research into neural networks myself, and have the
references to Lippmann's work at home. I'll send you the details tomorrow.

Bosco.

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:04:49 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Welcome Becky!

> Hello everyone!
> Thanks to the help of Dave, Matt and Stephen I was able to get in on the
> Deaf-L discussion.  Thanks!
>      I'm Becky Holman and I live in Columbia, Maryland.  I work at
> Catonsville Community College as their Interpreter Coordinator (not
> to be confused with the head of the Interpreter Training Program).
> I am a hearing person.  My brother is Deaf and lives in Phoenix, AZ.
> His name is Mark Wrightsman. Instead of being a CODA, I guess you can
> call me a SODA (Sister or Sibling of a Deaf Adult).  I thought it would
> be interesting to see what people are saying about the topics that
> everyone has argued about for ages and also get the latest info on all
> the new "hot" topics.  I am somewhat familiar with computers so please
> bear with me if I make any awful errors and let me know what I do wrong,
> constructively, please.

      Becky!

      Welcome to our list!  I am sure you will enjoy the rich
      diversity of opinion and background on Deaf_L.  As a SODA,
      your opinions will enhance the frequent controversial issues
      brought to forum here.  I look forward to seeing your input.
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:56:57 JST
From:         KAERI Kim YongChe <yckim@SORAK.KAIST.AC.KR>
Subject:      Re: Electronic communication

 Vicki Brown writes:
 > I just get so used to sending Email to most of the people I
 > know that I feel like something is missing when I have to
 > resort to other means such as telephone.  I guess a lot of us
 > are spoiled!

 Spoiled? I'd rather commend you on being so innovative. I can't
 forget the thrill - almost ecstasy - that I felt four years ago,
 when I first had contact with electronic communication (Email,
 chats, stc.). It practically opened a new world to me. However,
 let's not forget that with all the conveniences at hand lots of
 people still loathe to shift to the new technology.

 Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 04:55:57 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Delivery Problem

Todd:

I think your message about teaching got lost in the personal attack you
made.  I wonder whether your "discussion" of an issue means that we must
all accept the ideas that are currently in your mind as the obviously
correct ones that should be accepted by all for all time.

Anyway, the idea of having several special schools for hearing impaired
students in each state sounds good, but who is to pay for them?  Where are
all the specially trained and excellent teachers and other staff people
to come from?  How many different kinds of special schools do we really
need for ALL the children who have special needs?  How many different
schools for hard of hearing, deaf (and how do we draw the lines?), blind,
partially sighted, emotionally disturbed, learning disabled, mentally
handicapped, physically handicapped (and how many sub-divisions do we
need here?), and so on and so on.  And what of children who have more
than one problem?  What about sexual orientation?  Abused children?
Do sexually abused children need different education than physically
abused children?  How about speech impaired children?  Does the cause
of the disability make a difference?

Are there any children left over to attend "mainstream" schools?

The most effective education (that is, teaching subject matter and/or
learning skills) is one to one.  So maybe each child in the society should
have his/her own personal, highly trained, excellent teacher.  Then his/her
needs could be met much more accurately.  (Well, maybe, but that's another
argument.)  Of course, then you lose any social learning or learning to
be in a group of peers and several other things that the grouped children
in a school room can experience.

And thus, back to cost.  Florida is a relatively small state.  How could
Texas or Montana or even North Carolina or Ohio or California possibly
afford the numbers of special schools they would need according to
your plan?  Where would the expert teachers come from?  Unfortunately,
in the real world services must be paid for.  So must buildings and books
and special equipment.  And on and on and on.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: 11telliott@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Zarathustra)
Subject: Progress
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:36:49 GMT

I don't mean to raise hackles, but it does seem to have a Todd Elliott Bashing
going on around here, performed by several participants of Deaf-L. I don't mind
about that part. (Fire away.) But if it was such a baseless and a personal
attack/insult on Cathy Brandt's usage of the term, "hearing Impaired" quite
some replies ago, then why hasn't she responded? (hint, hint) What I did mind
was the cavalier attitude expressed by her since, (eg. What she should name her
room after, etc.) that I find disconcerting. Pax, and have a nice weekend,
-- 

Todd Elliott
11TELLIOTT@GALLUJ (Bitnet)
11TELLIO@GALLUX.GALLAUDET.EDU (Internet)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:57:46 -0400
From:         "Esther A. Paris" <esther@SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: Re: questions, a few, have i.

Hi Joseph... Good points you raised.  You're right, it could have
been an 'a' handshape... Maybe my fevered (lack of sleep, stress,
food and water other than I'm accustomed to, difficult flights on
the plane, lost luggage, etc) brain mistook the signs.  But it
sure seemed to me that both AKRON and SEX used the X hand.  SEX
(when it appeared) seemed to be AKRON-AKRON.    Also, I was
generally far away from the interpreter and an A and an X would
be virtually indistinguishable from the distance I was sitting
at.  (I was trying to avoid the smokers, to no avail.  Cough cough.
Wheeze cough gasp.  I have asthma and can't abide cigarette smoke
but the other 2999 conference attendees didn't seem to care about
poor little old me and my weak lungs.  Sigh....)

Is there no one from Ohio that can help me out?

Not that my life or sanity depends on it, but it sure was funny to
me to be voicing in my head what the interpreter said and to come
up with sentences like "And then we drove to SEX."

Well, back to playing with the computers and earning my keep here
at Raytheon EDL, Marlborough, MA!  esther@demand.ed.ray.com #Esther Paris
From: 91babik@gw.wmich.edu (Lisamarie Gemma Babik)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Ear Tags
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:14:47 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <01GO63TNE9M88ZDY09@CUBLDR.Colorado.EDU>, "Bryce Carey, CNS,Admin. Sys. Group" <CAREY_B@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU> writes:
> From: Carey_b@cubldr.colorado.edu
> 
> It seems we have a rather exotic collection of fauna on this deaf-list.

... lots of good stuff deleted...

>         To society at large, Deaf is Deaf.
> 
> To hearing people, the idea of NOT hearing is very horrifying.
> Therefore to the society at large, the loss of hearing, or lack of
> ability to hear is ALWAYS going to be thought of as a calamity,
> and not something to be desired. No amount of Ear-tagging is going
> to change that gut level feeling in society as a whole.
> 
> In other words, being deaf in whatever degree is always going to be a
> negative idea to people who can hear. I for one cannot argue that
> their perception is misguided.
> 

Nice post, Bryce.

That paragraph I quoted above was right on the money, too.  I just went to 
my 5 year class reunion.  I didn't start wearing hearing aids until I 
started college (just about 5 years ago).  When we got to talking about 
college and such and I was asked why I still had so long to go until I
graduate from college (2 more years!) I told them I had to change my major
out of music because my hearing was deteriorating at a furious pace.  They 
thought that losing my hearing was just the worst thing in the entire 
world!  They seemed shocked that it didn't think it was such a terrible
thing.  I'll be the first to admit, though....when in about 9th grade
I first began to understand that I didn't hear as well as I should 
my reaction was absolutely wretched!  I was absolutely mortified!  I taught 
myself to read lips so that no one would know and that I could pretend 
nothing was wrong...

A lot has changed since then, thank God!  I guess you grow up a lot in 9 
years.  The thought of total deafness doesn't mortify me anymore, and I 
spend a lot of time trying to help my friends and people I meet understand 
that it isn't as wretched as they think!  I also believe that a lot of the 
feelings hearing people have towards deafness stems from having absolutely 
no contact with deaf people, much less Deaf people!  I know that for myself 
I needed to get to know other deaf people before I felt that I was okay 
just the way I was....and that I wasn't a hearing person with a set of 
broken ears.

--Lisamarie


_______________________________________________________________________________

    "The grand essentials in this life are something to do, something
                 to love, and something to hope for..."

________Lisamarie "Rifa the Insane" Babik_________91babik@gw.wmich.edu_________
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:22:31 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      authority
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
X-cc:         dagoura@Athena.MIT.EDU
              31 Aug 92 19:42:20 -0400. <9209010027.AA22585@Athena.MIT.EDU>

    Todd, I realize you may disagree.  That is the beauty of America.  We
    are free to disagree.  But, you can *NOT* impose your beliefs on
    another individual.  The deaf culture can *NOT* impose its beliefs on
    an individual.

Why not?

*Some* group of people is "imposing its beliefs" on your students
through your school, i.e., showing them by example what academic
subjects and social behaviors are considered valuable.

If some of your 10-year-old students doesn't like speechreading, or
math, or some other subject in their IEP, but you and their parents
believe it is good for them, you will impose your belief on them.

If one of your students punches another in the face, or violates the
school dress code, or otherwise behaves in a way that they feel is
right and you feel is unacceptable, you will impose your belief on them.

Why should *you* (a not-always-cozy coalition of the school district
and the childrens' parents) have the power to decide what beliefs to
impose?  Why *not* give deaf adults in your community a piece of that
power?

    By the way this means that these [mainstreamed] kids are functioning
    on grade level.  That doesn't happen in too many places.  In fact just
    had the opportunity to look at some records of high school kids from a
    residential school.  Out of about 7 high schoolers *none* were on more
    than a fourth grade math level.  May be *lots* of reasons for that.

Indeed.  Perhaps the LEA's (Local Education Authorities) in your
neighborhood will only send deaf children to a residential school if
their academic skills are *so* weak that they can't get by in a
mainstream class.  Perhaps the teachers at the residential school you
refer to are much more incompetent than the mainstream teachers.
Perhaps...

    Teacher of children who amazingly keep their eyes glued to me all day long!

Do you ever feel anything *negative* about your students?  If you
think they're always so wonderful, I want to work in your school ...
or take whatever pills you're on.  :-) :-) (That was a JOKE.  Pax.)

--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:46:54 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Tonal Languages

> Yong Che:
>
> How do you communicate with others speaking a tonal language?  It seems to
> me that anyone, born deaf or late deafened (or hard of hearing, for that
> matter) would have even worse problems with understanding a tonal language
> than exist in understanding (by speech-reading or whatever) a language like
> English, which is not basically tonal.  Is their a sign language for Korean?
> It can't be tonal, can it?  BTW, I'm not sounding hostile (in my mind) as
> I ask these questions.  I'd just never thought of the issue before and, it
> seems to me that the problems of communicating with others must be much worse
> in a tonal language than they are in English or other Western language.
>
> dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
> Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821

      Miriam:

      What a concept!  At first I had no clue as to what you meant
      by "tonal language", but after thinking of the stereotypical
      voice patterns of oriental people, I can remember a marked
      inflection, much stronger than that normally used in spoken
      English.

      I am intrigued by your question and hope that Yong can share
      details about that with us!
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:00:32 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Progress

Bosco:

I don't remember the incantation to get the e-mail etiquette document either,
but I do remember that personal attacks are not approved.  Because newsmen
and politicians and others are abusive is no reason for us to be.  Maybe
even, some day, someone will not be elected because he was abusive, rather
than dealing with issues.  Who knows.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:39:43 EDT
From:         "Cathy Brandt" <CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Progress
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              28 Aug 1992 21:36:49 GMT from <11telliott@GALLUA.GALLAUDET.EDU>

On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:36:49 GMT Zarathustra said:
>attack/insult on Cathy Brandt's usage of the term, "hearing Impaired" quite
>some replies ago, then why hasn't she responded? (hint, hint) What I did mind
>was the cavalier attitude expressed by her since, (eg. What she should name her
Dear Todd,

I did respond.  Did you not receive that response?  I shall find it and send it
to you personally.  I know it made the list because a member emailed me
personally to comment on it.  I'm sorry you did not receive it.  By the way, I
shared that post with my principal, co-workers and even a few parents of my
students.  None of them agreed with you.  And *they* have witnessed my teaching

Again, I apologize if my attitude offended you.  It is hard to express true
intention via the net.  We don't have the luxury of facial expressions or
intonation to help convey meaning.

I have removed a "label" from my room.  We are just Miss Brandt's class.  Guess
they have to take my identity for now.

We are off to a fantastic school year.  Am thrilled with the opportunities.  I
just wish you could meet these kids.  Tuesdays we have a guest reader come and
read to the class.  Todd, if you are ever in Lexington - you are invited.  For
that matter you ALL are invited!

Am still accepting greetings from any and all members.  Thanks to the few of
you have responded.  The activity is slated for the week of September 7.

Cathy Brandt
Teacher of children who teach me something new everyday!
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Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:54:09 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:56:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      nsf.sun
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

Tilak,

	Your messages (2 of them) got through on the NSFNET-RELAY!

	Martin Powderly

	ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:26:46 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Progress

Ref:  Your note of Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:29:22 -0400

Hiring a person to do a job should be based on objective
judgements about that person's ability to do a job better than
the next person, and not on subjective judgement based on
whether or not the hirer takes a liking to the person.

In the *real* world, subjective judgement always tends to filter
in to a certain degree. Suffice it to say that if the hirer
takes a liking to you, you're in with an advantage of sorts.
But I've had many an argument with certain people via email, often to
the degree that I've actually hated their guts. It was only when I
met some of them face-to-face that I realised that they were really
very pleasant people after all. :-)

Bosco.

No (more) Akron please, I'm British. (Well Irish, actually!)

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
BITNET  : KEOWN at VNET
From: 91babik@gw.wmich.edu (Lisamarie Gemma Babik)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Ear Tags
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:48:41 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <180nueINN71s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey) writes:
...deleted my original response....
> 
> 	Let me see if I get this straight:
> 	You love music enough to major in it in college (not an easy
> thing!) but, because you became deaf, you can no longer hear music/
> play music, etc. and you think they shouldn't feel any sympathy?!?!?!?
> 
> 	Jeez! If I couldn't hear music anymore, I'd go bonkers! 
> I wouldn't be afraid of the social stigma or communication (I already
> know some sign and pick up languages quickly anyways.). I would 
> hate to no longer have music! And I'm just a biochemist, not a 
> (serious) musician. 
> 
> 	So if a singer friend of your got throat cancer and would never
> be able to sing again, you'd just shrug it off and not think this was
> a terrible thing to have happened to her?!?!?!?!?
> 	Admittedly, her LIFE isn't over, but it's still a tragic 
> thing to have happen. 
> 
> --
> 	" ...dealing with Free-Net makes me very angry  | Heather "Moose"
> and gives me thoughts of breaking things and torturing  | Garvey, Biochem 93'
> small animals. "   --  Bruce Ikenaga <bxi@po.cwru.edu>  | <hlg@po.cwru.edu>

Geez Heather!  Settle down!  I am not a cold hearted ice-woman!  
Geez-o-petey-Lord-almighty!  Cut me some slack here!

Everyone at the reunion got geeked out about me losing my hearing, not that 
I had to quit music.  A lot of them didn't know I was majoring in music and 
that fact usually came out a bit later in conversation.

And yeah, it would be terrible if a singing friend of mine lost her voice.  
However, if I spent the rest of my life thinking "oh poor me! I'm going 
deaf!"  I'd never get on with my life....  I didn't just "give up" music, 
either.  I fought tooth and nail to hold on to it, but occaisionally you
have to take a reality check and (if you'll excuse the pun) face the music.

In my case, I haven't lost music entirely.  (I'm "very hard of hearing," not 
completely deaf yet....)  I still play, I still listen, and when I sit down 
with a piece of music I can read it just like a book and hear the whole score
in my head.

*sigh*

I hate being misunderstood......  Hey!  Maybe this qualifies me as a 
misunderstood artist now!

Lisamarie

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
              Cthulu in '92!  Why vote for the lesser evil?

     Did you know that if you rearrange the letters in H. Ross Perot's name
                        you can spell Short Poser?

________Lisamarie "Rifa the Insane" Babik_________91babik@gw.wmich.edu_________
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:57:52 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Fun with language (vowels)

Ref:  Vicki's posting of Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:42:11 -0700


>For real fun though, one of my favorite words is cwm (that's not misspelled).
>(a narrow valley or deep hollow) It's Welsh, borrowed into English with no
>change in spelling.  In Welsh the W is *really* a "double-u" (or more like
>double-o :-)

In the north of England, a ravine is known as a "ghyll" (often spelled
gill -- as in Gaping Gill). That's an example of a 'vowelised' "y".
I am sure that *old* English had lots of vowelisation of "y" sounds.

 " Everyman, I wyll go with thee and be thy gyde
   In thy moost nede to go by thy syde. "

The Welsh pronunciation of the
name "Dylan" is "Dullun". However, most people say "Dillon".
Either way, the "y" is still 'vowelised'. By the way, Vicki,
Dylan Thomas grew up in Cwmdonkin Drive, Swansea.

Th bst sltn -- n bldy vwls!

Bosco.

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
BITNET  : KEOWN at VNET
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