HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kehres@ima.com (Tim Kehres)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: Jumping the Good Ship California
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:36:07 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: International Messaging Associates, Menlo Park, California

In article <Bt5oIG.Gxo@well.sf.ca.us> casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton) writes:
>
>I know several people who have left California recently, and I'm hearing
>more talk about it.  Do you have a general sense of incoming/outgoing?
>Have you thought about leaving yourself?

You can add my name to the growing list as well.  In addition to all the
previously addressed reasons that individuals are considering leaving, I
am looking to relocate my business due to the repressive environment here.
Now I doubt that my small business will make much of a difference to the
state, but it is only one of many.  I know of at least one major aerospace
firm that is planning on pulling completely out of the state by the end of
the decade.  You can only tax businesses so much before they pull out and
move to environments where they are more welcome.  It seems that we have
long since passed the point where increased taxes result in increased
revenues for the state.  Unfortunately the politicians don't seem to 
understand any of this, and those that are most hurt are the employees of
companies forced to move.

BTW, one of the local radio stations in the San Francisco area today said
that a new report out indicates that people are leaving the state now at a
rate of 3 to 1.

Regards,

Tim Kehres
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:32:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.151328.18703@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>The DMZ reported in transfers of licenses between states, 13K more left CA
>than entered in 1991.  This does not say anything about the total amount
>which probably went up due to internal increases and foreign immigration.

And the point made by the Times article was that it was the first time in
many years that the numbers went that direction.
-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Re: Snow and the San Gabes (was: Which is the City of Worst...)
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:13:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.024004.8066@xyzoom.info.com> rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
> I realize I've changed the subject here, but there is an excellent
> series in the New Yorker magazine by John Mcphee, started last week,
> on the geology of California.

He's also written about the Gabes before, one third of the 
book, "Control of Nature".

John S. Watson, Civil Servent from Hell          ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov
HOMEBREW NAKED! --- Ursus cerevisiae nudium  (The Bare Beer Bear)

#include <stddsclm.h> 
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Snow and the San Gabes (was: Which is the City of Worst...)
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:40:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.222811.274@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>One of the secrets of LA are the 4 to 6 months when it is clear and you can
>see the mountains.  Then there is the month or so around New Years when the
>mountains are rimmed with snow and the sky is crystal clear.

And the Rose Bowl on national TV with the San Gabes in the background
is responsible for an influx of immigrants, I'm sure.

>You feel like
>your are in the Rockies or Sierras.  Almost, but not quite makes up for the
>smoggy summers.

On such days I try to get up in the mountains to look *down* on LA and
get a feeling for the basin and the geology of this new mountain
range...the San Gabes are rising faster than they are subsiding, which
is something when you look at the debris basins along the mouths of
the canyons.  I was up there at the beginning of August--at Mt.
Baden-Powell--and there was snow in a north-facing draw, enough to
attract snowboarders and saucer-riders.

I realize I've changed the subject here, but there is an excellent
series in the New Yorker magazine by John Mcphee, started last week,
on the geology of California.

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:28:11 GMT

One of the secrets of LA are the 4 to 6 months when it is clear and you can
see the mountains.  Then there is the month or so around New Years when the
mountains are rimmed with snow and the sky is crystal clear.  You feel like
your are in the Rockies or Sierras.  Almost, but not quite makes up for the
smoggy summers.
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: driving from SF to LA
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 00:48:19 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <65446@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
>(1a) If, for some reason, you DO take I-5, at the first whiff of cows,

Oh, the Harris Ranch and all that Prime Rib.....

>(2) There is some book about roadside geology.  I don't recall the title.
>It describes interesting geological features along various major freeways
>and roads.  I've only looked at it in bookstores, so can't tell you
>more.

Bob Sharp's Coastal CA Geology in the K/H Geology Series (lite green cover).
I got my copy at the Caltech Bookstore.  Check Books in Print if you have time.
Bob retired in Santa Barbara.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 00:18:57 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep10.222811.274@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM
(Richard Ottolini) writes:
>One of the secrets of LA are the 4 to 6 months when it is clear and you can
>see the mountains.  Then there is the month or so around New Years when the
>mountains are rimmed with snow and the sky is crystal clear.  You feel like
>your are in the Rockies or Sierras.  Almost, but not quite makes up for the
>smoggy summers.

Is it still 4-6 months?
I think the amazing thing was to take off from El Monte when my friend Keith
was learning to fly.  The smog and trying to figure out where to land in
the morass of LA is amazing.  I remember really beautiful cold crisp mornings
waking up and walking to JHS or HS and seeing these snow covered peaks
above LA.  And this wasn't when I was living in Pasadena.

No one got the trivia question about the height of the highest point in
LA Country (Mt. Baldy, 10,000 ft, 10,064, or 10,080 or similar figure
were all acceptable).  This relief is greater than the Rockies and almost
matches the Sierra.  People don't seem to realize that they can experience
avalanches, frostbite, cornices, etc. just minutes away from the city.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California (LA is somewhat all the same)
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:17:11 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <2AA8AE93.22171@ics.uci.edu> mludwig@ics.uci.edu
(Michael Scott Ludwig) writes:
>this sounds like a trip where flying would be just as
>convenient and less costly....
>
>Although I can't think of any way in which the far reaches of San Brdo. and
>Riverside Counties can be called part of the L.A. Metro area - these
>counties go all the way to the Colorado River.

I had a boss (Mike Warner, his daughter was Bonnie Warner [United Airlines
Navigator and American Lugist]) who lived in Mt. Baldy and now Wrightwood.
That meant that he drove daily from many years around the mountains because
Angeles Crest was snowed in.  People are flying in private planes to commute.
This all sounded funny to me, until one of my Uncles moved out into the desert
and also started long distance commuting.

Similar long commutes are happening in the Bay Area.  Large rural tracts
are now filling in.  I witness the addition of a stop light in the middle of
nearly no-where on my way to Yosemite.  I80 between SF and Sacramento
is slowly filling in.  It is no longer inconceivable to me to see the ENTIRE
Salinas and Central Valleys as urban areas.  Question will be: where then will
we grow the food?  What's going to limit (ultimately, physically) that
growth?

I remember when Thousand Oaks HAD a Thousand Oaks.  I remember when Palmdale
and Lancaster weren't.  My friend Peter has a sister who was telling me
how it was like to grow up in Santa Clara before "the Valley" where they
knew who owned every light in what's now Cupertino.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:58:26 GMT

In article <100.UUL1.3#1@vortex.COM> lauren@vortex.COM (Lauren Weinstein) writes:
>   [Internationally,]
>   L.A. isn't even *near* the top of the list. 

I heard recently that in the US, Denver was worse than LA.

>3) When you see the famous pictures of L.A. "smog," keep in mind that the
>   basin looked very similar 200 years ago!  The Native American name
>   for the area was something like "land of mists,"

I was told "valley of smokes" but really the same thing.  Another
thing to remember is that other than during brush fires and riots,
there is no open burning in LA.  In the Indians' time, fires were
commonplace, and I can personally vouch for the fact that during the
riots, I couldn't see downtown LA from my home in the hills for the
smoke, and had to shut my doors and windows against the stench and
fumes.  

>   from the ocean that frequently caused visibility to be heavily obscured
>   in gray mistiness.  Add even a little bit of genuine smog to that
>   and you have some impressive pictures, but not much in the way of
>   information.  In fact, I've often heard news reports pointing out
>   that even though most people thought a particular day had terrible
>   smog due to low visibility, the actual pollution levels those days
>   were very low.  You just can't always tell by looking. 

You are absolutely correct.  I have looked at the pollution page in
the Times regularly for a few years, and can't correlate the view from
my home with the figures.  The only time when the air's clarity has
anything to do with the levels of pollution is when you can see for
miles and there is a snap to the air, as in a Santa Ana condition, in
the fall or winter (sometimes, but rarely in Spring or Summer).

>On the other hand, every time I visit the Bay Area, it seems the pollution
>and traffic problems there are getting worse and worse. 

I can say that New York City's air appears better these days, as does
its water (the Hudson).  But the streets, that is another story...

>been in routine traffic tieups there that are at *least* as bad as
>ones down here.

In the 10 years I've been is Los Angeles, the traffic in Hollywood
appears to have doubled.  But DMV says for the first time in many
years, the state of California showed a decline of drivers in the past
year.  Wonder if that decline is weighted toward Southern California?

Regards
--Rob

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: my@berlioz.nsc.com (Mike Yip)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general.ba.general
Subject: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Summary: Let's rank the cities!
Keywords: city, smog, pollution, living condition, moving out
Date: 6 Sep 92 05:30:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: National Semiconductor Corp.
Originator: my@laverde

Hello,
	I would like to know which is the city in the US has the worst
air pollution (LA? NYC?) and which city has the worst overall pollution
in general (land/air/water...).  

	How about in the global scale?  Is Mexico City the worst one 
to be in?  Or is it L.A. or NYC?

-- Mike



-- 
| Michael Yip			Email: my@berlioz.nsc.com
| National Semiconductor Corp	Voice: (408) 721-5148
| 
| Of course, this is my own opinion!
From: rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao)
Subject: driving from SF to LA
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:01:33 GMT


I am soon going to drive from SF to LA for the first time.
What is the best book to get about stuff to see and do along the way?
I'm going to stop several times and take my time. I have seen at least
five general travel guides about Calif.
-- 
Robert Chao
Oakland, California
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 19:29:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep9.151955.3429@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
>
>On the other hand, having fallen in love with good public
>transportation where it exists (San Francisco, Paris, London),
>I'm greatly cheered by the coming of subways.
>
Just hang on a bit. I think the completion of the Red Line is
going to be a wonderful thing; I saw a study in the LA Times
that said that commuting traffic on the 170/101 will decline
by 30% within a year of its completion. 

>The smog is also definitely better now than it was 20 years ago,
>thanks to stricter clean-air standards.
>
This is true; the AQMD says our air is the best since 1964. Emissions
are less than half of what they were in 1969. We have had the fewest
first stage alerts since 1971.

Sorry if I seem like a pie-eyed optimist or a land promoter. But
I love LA.

-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543
                         Fax: 805.944.5958


Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general.ba.general
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Keywords: city, smog, pollution, living condition, moving out
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:45:09 GMT

The papers in LA print daily smog graphs for eight locations.
These are roughly parts-per-billion concentration for major components such
CO and O3.  A first-stage health warning is issued when the index exceeds 200.
This happens approximately when the temperature goes above 85 for several
days in a row.   Mexico City reaches 500 in the winter.  Orange County rarely
goes above 100 and is fairly similar to the Silicon Valley levels.
Xref: sparky ca.general:1201 la.general:626 alt.california:1725
From: fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:19:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:

>That would put our observations almost exactly decades apart: do you
>think it was half again 1980's volume in 1970?

Well, my perceptions are somewhat colored by having moved around
within Southern California during the past decades (Fullerton,
Newport/Irvine, Santa Monica, Long Beach and now greater Pasadena)
plus a few years living in the Bay Area, but generally my feeling
is that traffic has steadily worsened.  In 1970 there were a couple
of compact "rush hours" during which traffic could be expected to
be bad (7 to 9 am and 4 to 6 pm); thanks to staggered work shifts
and other factors, those rush hours have since ballooned.  There
are also certain freeways which can be counted on to be clogged
at nearly any hour of the day or night (101 from downtown to
Hollywood, the 5 through Santa Ana).

On the other hand, having fallen in love with good public
transportation where it exists (San Francisco, Paris, London),
I'm greatly cheered by the coming of subways.

I can't really say traffic volume was, say, half again in 1970
as compared to 1980.  A lot depends on bursts of growth in
various areas.  In 1970, for example, there was virtually
nothing from Newport to San Clemente save a couple of tiny
settlements in Irvine and Mission Viejo and the beach towns;
now of course that area is clogged, traffic-wise and otherwise.

The smog is also definitely better now than it was 20 years ago,
thanks to stricter clean-air standards.

Frank
frank@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
From: price@nosc.mil (James N. Price)
Subject: Re: L.A.'s Metro system (was Re: Which is the City ...)
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:38:26 GMT

Don't forget the public transportation systems planned for
existing rail corridors!  There's more in the works than squeezing
rail into/above existing freeways.

I don't remember the whole plan, but LA to San Bernardino on the
old Pacific Electric (now SP) right of way is being built as we
speak.  Similarly service between Ventura and downtown LA (on the
Amtrak route) has started or is about to.  Additional Orange
County to downtown trains on another part of Amtrak's route are
planned.  And I think there's also a plan for Riverside to Corona
to downtown--that would be over Santa Fe tracks.

Ah, if only the Big Red cars and their rights of way were still
around.  But we don't want to get into that discussion, do we....


--Jim Price, San Diego
Xref: sparky ca.general:1221 la.general:643 alt.california:1740
From: bruceh@cray.com (Bruce T. Hill)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
Subject: Re: L.A.'s Metro system (was Re: Which is the City ...)
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:52:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA

In article <1992Sep10.023451.28270@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>Which brings up a question I've been wondering about for
>a long time.  Now and then I see stories in the Times about
>the Red Line or another component of the Metro system,
>sometimes with a map of a fairly small part of the route.
>What I'd be really curious to see, though, is something like
>a projected system map of 20-30 years hence (i.e. the whole
>kit and kaboodle).  Has anyone ever seen anything like this?

You've got to be kidding!  Our politicians and public servants planning
anything beyond the next election year?  I would be surprised if they
had a 5 year plan let alone 20 years!  The various transportation agencies
might very well have a "wish list" of what they would eventually like
to have, but as you well know the money for all of this comes from our
government and they can't seem to budget anything for the long term.  

Just look at how ling it has taken to get the Century Freeway built.
The elimination of the traffic signal on Highway 101 through Santa Barbara
is another fine example of a plan put on hold for 25 years due to political
pressures.

-- 
Bruce T. Hill @ Cray Research Superservers, Inc., San Diego, CA, USA
Email: bruceh@cray.com  Phone: (619) 625-3746  FAX: (619) 625-0641
Humorous quotation:  Nobody looks good wearing _brown_lipstick_. --Frank Zappa
Xref: sparky ca.general:1200 la.general:625 alt.california:1724
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california
Subject: Re: Which is the City of Worst Smog and Pollution?
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:40:42 GMT
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA

In article <1992Sep8.151400.12212@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>
>Heh, Rob, well let me tell you what it was like in 1970 when
>I first got my license ...

That would put our observations almost exactly decades apart: do you
think it was half again 1980's volume in 1970?

>Is that a decline in the total number of holders of drivers'
>licenses, or the number of new applicants for licenses, or
>something completely different like hours spent driving per
>capita?  I did see something in the paper this morning about
>fewer teens getting licenses, which apparently is related
>to the high cost of insurance and instruction (which apparently
>is no longer free as a part of high school).

Unfortunately I did not save the article, and my less than total
complement of brain cells left over from the 1970's have rendered the
memory of the facts incomplete.  But the article--in Saturday's paper,
I believe, did mention the formula used, and it was an
arithmetically-derived result of total number of new licenses, against
surrendered licenses/deceased drivers, or something like that.
Speaking of deceased drivers, we probably weight the average up here
in So CA....
-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: carhart@netcom.com (Raymond E. Carhart)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: what is music when KTEH (SF) shuts down?
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:05:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


Hi
Can anyone who lives in the vicinity of public television station KTEH,
channel 54, tell me what the classical music is that plays when they
end their broadcast day?  It is played during a medley of clips.

Kevin
carhart@netcom.com
Newsgroups: ca.general,la.general,alt.california