HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dlk0ms9s@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY: Prices, Prices, and more Prices.....
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:57:10 EST
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

In article <1993Jan27.122016.15290@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes:
> 	Well, I just received the recent Micro Center ad, and form the 
> looks of the prices, I really don't see anyone buying a Falcon other then 
> musicians.
> 
> 	First, we have the Macs..... Hmmmmmm, a LC II with 4 megs of ram 
> and 80 meg hard drive... $1190 (All prices I'm going to quote are without 
> monitor, just to keep it in line with the Falcon without monitor) IIsi, 
> same config, $1500.
> 
> 	Oh, you don't like Macs. How about an Intel based machine.
> MicroCenter doesn't even carry any 386 machines. (Except for notebooks.) A
> Compaq Prolinea, with a 486sx, 120 meg hard drive, SVGA, and 4 megs of ram.
> (Also a fax/modem) $1398! (Also included is one-year on-site support!!) 
> 
> 	As much as I would like the Falcon to succeed, I don't see it 
> having any sort of success anywhere but the musical world, and then only 
> until a DSP card comes out for the Mac or Intel world. (And people use the 
> argument that since they weren't built in, software won't support them. Is 
> that why Miami here just bought 12 macs for use with Midi? Once a DSP card 
> is released, support will follow)
> 
> (I'm not associated with Micro Center at all, and I'm not trying to be an 
> advertisement, I just wanted people to see prices other than mail-order.)
> 
> Later.......
> 
> ------======={{{{{{{{((((((Ryan 'Gozar' Collins))))))))}}}}}}}}=======--------

  While I agree that Atari is in very ruff shape I would like to point out that
the prices you mention are after serious discounting.  Sure, I Falcon 4/65
retails for $1295, but after discounting, I expect it around $1000.  Let's be
practical for a minute.  After the Die Hards get their hands on them and the
machine begin to rest in quantity, the price will drop.  How much can you get a
1 meg STe for (ans $379).  It retails at $599!  That is one hell of a drop.  I
expect the same will happen to the Falcon.

  Will I buy one?  I think so, bt in the two piece case.  It will be the 030
configuration at 33Mhz I suppose.  I know I won't be able to afford the 040. 
And it will suit me just fine.  ANd if I can get Mac II or 486 emmulation off
it, hey that's even better.  For the record, I own no emmulator for my Mega ST
and have never really seen the use for it.  All my software does everything I
need it to, and more.  I doubt I will ever use Calamus SL to its fullest
potential, but that's cool.

  So cool.  Computers aren't the end all/be all that they want to be.  All the
technology filtering down to us home users is already out of date.  So use what
you can and enjoy it for what it is.  That's why you bought the thing in the
first place...

I have no further communications.
Mark Santora
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: PC Bigotrynex
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:15:52 GMT
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article 7362@gw.wmich.edu, x91mikowski@gw.wmich.edu () writes:
>
>Thanx for that blast of FRESH AIR John!  I'm getting quite tired of all the BS
>too...  Why doesn't this group get back to the reason for which it was created
>NEWS and SUPPORT! 

This is an interesting social phenonemon that calls for my $.02:

We suffer flame-wars evidently because so many people are emotionally insecure
and need constant assurances that the choices they make in life are, in fact,
"good" ones.  This little quirk is commonly known as "cognitive dissonance"
as is quite common among younger, less mature individuals who have not yet
learned how to cope with their own feelings, much less coexist with others. 

Whenever I read a particularly senseless flame in this group (which is more
often than not, unfortunately) I automatically stereotype the poster as a
member of this group of rather insecure loners.  As a rule, I generally hate
stereotypes, but flame-related posters bring this upon themselves.

And while I overtly agree that "Atari zealots" are just as bad as "Atari
bashers" we should realize that this _is_ comp.sys.atari.st and is the best
place on the net to sing the praises of Atari, true or false.  If someone
thinks his/her 520ST is the best computer on the planet, what's it to you?
The mature individual would simply take solace in the knowledge that his
"lap top Cray" is superior; the insecure child would feel the compelling need
to tell the world that the 520ST owner is a flaming idiot.  Your opinions
about this person may be right on the mark, but so what?  Capiche'?

These flame-wars will never end, but I do urge folks to consider what kind of
image of themselves they are presenting to the world _before_ they hit Return.

Lecture complete.  Quiz on Monday.  Class dismissed.  :)
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Re: PC Bigotrynex  ADVOCACY (for .killrc)
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:43:41 GMT

In article 1662@csi.uottawa.ca, cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>
>Did you study psych, John?  You seem to know the right terminology...
>You ARE quite right about the reasons for flame wars.

Yep, in my younger, wilder years. :)

>The other "half" of the reason is the fact that a forum like Usenet
>doesn't "punish" people very much for making mistakes - not even BIG
>ones like saying that my computer is...<omitted>

Very true. It's a "safe" way to be a little naughty.  And if one uses an
anonymous address, it's the same logic as kids making crank phone calls.

>>I have run into many people who flagrantly brag that they own a 66
>>MHz 486.  That really is pathetic when you stop and think about it.
>Yup, it IS pathetic.  For that kind of money I'd get one of the
>low-end Sparc systems, and run rings around those 486es.  :-)

Well, maybe you have some really great educational discounts in Canada, but 
down here I can't get a Sparc for $1500 which is what you can buy a bare-bones
486-66 for nowadays at retail.  P.S.:  Getting a Sparc 10 installed in my day
job office soon... fun, fun, fun!

>But you may be missing the point that to many people, flaming IS fun!

I admit that at times, good natured "arguing" can be fun.  But "flaming" is a
different animal altogether, IMHO, and certainly not a socially redeeming
grace. :)  It reflects poorly on those who participate and makes the newsgroup
a worthless waste of time rather than the help forum it could and should be.
The ADVOCACY line helps... thanks to those that use it.
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________


Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: storm@fwi.uva.nl (Richard G.C. Storm (I89))
Subject: OMEGA HELP????????
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:05:01 GMT



HI all,


I was wondering if anybody couldhelp me with the game Omega
I just got it recently from ftp and get killed all the time.
Because I run it on a one-floppy system this means wasting too
much time. 

Maybe anybody has or knows where to find a FAQ???

Thanks Richard

-- 
Richard Storm, storm@fwi.uva.nl || 
University of Amsterdam.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: acleasby@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew Cleasby)
Subject: Flight Sim. II wanted
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:32:18 GMT

I'm looking to buy a used copy of Flight Simulator 2 with documentation (for
the ST, of course).  Send E-mail if you have one available as well as an asking
price.

Thanks,
-Andrew
acleasby@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
From: phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: ISO, Atari Corporate History material
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 20:50:34 PST
Reply-To: phbill@cyberden.sf.ca.us
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Re: Atari Corporate history...


Well, you could always call Atari's BBS- AtariBase, located in Sunnyvale 
Calif. USA   


area code  408
               745-2196...

have fun!

           \
  /\  /    /\  / /  /
 /\/ /\  \/\/ / /  /    PhBill@Cyberden.SF.CA.US, or
/     /   \/ /  \  \    PhBill@Cyberden.UUCP
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Fantasy Games
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 20:06:58 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
 3Jan17010249@SunLab41.essex.ac.uk><JONT.93Jan20114907@ml.harlqn.co.uk>
  <74048@cup.portal.com>
  <ABADDON.93Jan25164310@suprenum.uk.ac.liverpool.scm.suprenum>

Kevin Donovan asked about the "magic only" Dungeon Master game...
 
I think it should be possible, as long as your magic users could
do powerful enough fireballs to blast through the doors that
can't be opened any other way.. (the ones that normally are
"chopped" to get through).
 
Also, there's the "Cast your Influence, Cast your Might" spot
 in the Vault..  if you allow your magic users to throw physical
objects, then you could get through there..
 
But even if you disallowed throwing, there are enough keys to
bypass one of the areas on Level 3 and still get through to the
next Level..
 
As for actually killing Lord Chaos, not as far as I know..
BobR
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: mbernar@erenj.com (Marcelino Bernardo)
Subject: Re: NEWSFLASH : FALCON RELEASED
Followup-To: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: Exxon Research & Engineering, Co.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:59:37 GMT

In article <1k6b88INN7kd@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Len Stys) wrote:
> 
> 
> In a previous article, lmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves) says:
> 
> >stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig Vidar Hovland) writes:
> >: In article <jorngh.366.727480750@dhhalden.no>, jorngh@dhhalden.no (JORN GUNNAR HALONEN) writes:
> >:  > 
> >:  > Yeah, you read right ! Two Falcons were actually released
> >:  > in UK yesterday, it was supposed to be three but one machine
> >:  > was D.O.A. The UK Atari manager was nevertheless pleased and
> >:  > stated that this proves Atari's dedication to the market. He
> >:  > also gave hopes of five (yes five !) new machines in the next
> >:  > few months, and an additional 30 (!) cute beasts if he managed
> >:  > to sell his flat in south London. The production barracks in
> >:  > Iraq is currently working in high gear too keep up with the
> >:    ^^^^ 
> >:  > demands.
> >:  > 
> >:  > And a last thing, this is a rumour. It may not be entirely true.
> >:  > 
> >: 
> >: If UN and USA could stop bombing these barracks, we probably would see
> >: more Falcons in the (near) future.
> >: 
> >
> >In that case, BOMBS AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> I ___HEARD___ that the factory that the United Nations thought were making
> nuclear weapons were ACTUALLY making Falcon030 computers.
> 
> Since it was targeted by the U.S. and DESTROYED, we will have to wait
> another six months for Falcons.
> 
> I believe I heard a represenative from Iraq saying that they will "rebuild"
> this factory, however.
> 

I believe you were slightly misinformed.  The factory was just making cheap
Falcon decoys.:-)  This was a Tramiel strategy to mislead Commodore.

Marcelino
mbernar@erenj.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: nino@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Marinos Yannikos)
Subject: Re: All these wars...
Organization: TU Wien, Vienna, Austria
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:35:26 GMT

Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
: [...] 
: Surprise, Marinos..!!
: 
: I own 2 1/2 PCs already, and I still use my 520 ST more than all of them
: put together!  (Guess you don't read so good, eh..?  There are remedial
: classes available to help with that...)

Well thanks, I can read already. Thanks for the insult too!

: My point is that if Atari Corp would finally do something (after YEARS of
: doing virtually NOTHING), we'd all have plenty to talk about without
: having to resort to flame wars just to have something to fill the void.

Are you serious? Do you actually flame in comp.sys.atari.st "just to
have something to fill the void"??? Have you ever thought about the 
fact that a lot of people that are reading this group have to pay 
money for that?

: Read a few PC or Mac newsgroups to see how HAPPY computer owners discuss
: everything from games to desktop publishing, to programming, to graphics,
: and all with very little reference to "Real Soon Now", or "Someday when
: XXXX is released"...

I've seen plenty of these messages in comp.sys.atari.st too, but in the
last couple of weeks I've almost seen more messages from you alone
complaining about Atari Corp., don't you ever get bored?

: Wouldn't it be great if the Atari newsgroups had more games to talk about
: than you could take time to read..?  Enough that we'd have to create a
: new newsgroup just to handle them..?    Or if there were enough people
: programming the Atari on a professional or semi-professional level that
: we needed several new newsgroups just to handle the traffic..?

Sure. But that doesn't mean that we have to "fill the void" that the lack
of such things for the ST created with useless flame-wars!

: Like I said.. we don't need a new newsgroup to handle all the Atari flames..
: what we need is for Atari Corp to DO SOMETHING...
: 
: BobR

-MY
From: doucet@ripolin.laas.fr (Jean-Etienne Doucet)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: RayShade on Atari?
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:00:37 GMT
Reply-To: doucet@ripolin.laas.fr
Organization: LAAS-CNRS, Toulouse (France)

In article 2601@blue.cis.pitt.edu, wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>For that matter, has anyone compilerd (sorry, I meant 'compiled')
>PoV for the Atari?


PoV is on the cover disk of the Feb'93 issue of the (French) STart Micro Mag.
I haven't tried it, all I know is that 2 Megs are required.

	+-------------------------+-------------------------+
	|   Jean-Etienne DOUCET   |       LAAS - CNRS       |
	|   doucet@laas.laas.fr   |   Toulouse   FRANCE     |
	+-------------------------+-------------------------+
From: mppi76@cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (Harald Schoenfeld)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: .AU sound-file player/convertor?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:39:56 +0100
Organization: Regionales Rechenzentrum Erlangen
NNTP-Posting-Host: cd4680fs.rrze.uni-erlangen.de

We are writing a program that deals with sounds for the Falcon at the
moment. The first Beta version Fortune 1.0 is already posted to
atari.archive.umich.

We would like to include as many different sound file formats for in- and
export as possible. So if you have any specific information about these
formats (and their file headers) please mail them to us.

At the moment we support DVSM (the format of our harddisk recorder) and
AVR. But that is not enough :-)

H. Schoenfeld
B. Spellenberg

-- 
           Harald Schoenfeld            |            I'm sorry Dave,       
   (hs@cnve.rrze.uni-erlangen.dbp.de)   |      I'm afraid I can't do that.
From: lehmann@cs.tamu.edu (Mark A Lehmann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: MultiTOS on 68000
Date: 22 Jan 1993 05:14:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: solar.tamu.edu

>This thing about "no new software" is really beginning to bug me.  Anyone
>claiming there is no new software for the ST(e)/TT/Falcon is not
>keeping up with current events.  There is more _good_ software out now
>than ever before for the Atari  line.  You want word processors?  Take your
>pick from about 5-10 current and upgradable programs.  DTP?  No question
>there is current software here which is moving to stay with the field.
>Graphics?  How about True-Paint, Phoenix 512, Chronos 3D?
>
>It seems that in the last year or two we've seen an explosion of products
>from all different sources -- I'd say if you had an Atari, you have many
>excellent options in terms of software.

I second that opinion.  I just recently did three neat things to my 
previously piece of junk 1040STf.  I got 4Mb RAM upgrade, a 193Mb hard disk
with ICD tools, and today I got the TEC TOS 2.06 upgade.

I bought the Hard Drive from D&P computing.  I was impressed by their 
knowledge and their professionalism.  Also, they included a SOFTWARE
catalog with an ST SOFTWARE program.  I ran the program and found that
about 500 programs are currently available and that about 250 of them
were written since 1990.  That impressed me.  The other think that impressed
me was the amount of hardware third party companies were selling for the
old as well as the new Atari ST.

My advice has been, we you need a computer, look at what you can get.  Next
forget about all the other computers you have seen and see if this one
can do what you want it to do.  Next see if you like it.  Last see if you can
afford it.  If you can answer yes to all of these questions, put it on your
buy list.  When you're done, review which computer you liked best, not
which one is best, becuase not matter what other people say, you have to
use the computer every day and you need to have something you like.

For me the Atari ST has always been something that I thought was less than
every other computer.  For nearly every single application I have used
I have been delighted because the programs and machine exceeded my 
expectations.  I truley don't care what other people say about my Atari ST;
I like it, I support it, and I am going to spend lots of money on it.

People are the same way with watches, cars, boats, homes, and so on.  If they
like it, they put the money into it and they don't really care what other
people think.

--
Mark Lehmann                      Senior Texas A&M University
lehmann@cs.tamu.edu               
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: Gerry O'Rourke
Subject: PowerDOS
Keywords: Powerdos
Organization: Northern Telecom (IRL) Ltd
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:40:13 GMT

I downloaded Powerdos from a.a, bit I can't get it to do anything for me.
There is no Configur file in the archive, & I cant't figure out how to set it
up properly. 

If there is anyone out there who has or who knows something, please post a 
reply as it certainly looks interesting.

Some questions:
1. Does it work with all versions of TOS.

2. What is the difference between it and Mint/Multitos.

3. How much faster are the disk routines.

4. How do you set up the programs to muti-task.

Regards

Gerry O'Rourke
E-mail gigxr01@nt.com
From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: PC Bigotrynex
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 16:49:34 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Robert Coleman writes:

>Bob,

>Do you have any idea how silly this looks?

>>Unfortunately, as I mentioned in another posting, I think a lot of this
>>is due to the effects of the market.  People who own a computer in a
>>thriving, vital market have better things to do with their computers than
>>to engage in flamewars.. 

>Do you have a compatible?  Are you involved in a flamewar?

Ah.. ok, I see I inadvertantly omitted a single word from that paragraph..
 
Let's see if you get the thought this way..
People who  *only* own a computer in a
thriving, vital market have better things to do with their computers than
to engage in flamewars.. 


Yes, I own PC compatible computers, but I also own an Atari ST,
which is part of a dying, sickly market, and it appears I'm
engaged in several flamewars with people who seem to think that
spreading misinformation about other brands of computers is
somehow going to make everything in the Atari market suddenly
turn around and become respectable again.
 
It's akin to someone saying "I own a Yugo, and while they're
not made any more, and there are no dealers left to buy them or
parts and service for them, Pintos burst into flame, and Corvairs
flip over, so everything but Yugos sucks.."
BobR
From: aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Why Atari can't succeed in the United States
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:32:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ekrimen@wet.UUCP (Ed Krimen) says:

>In article <1993Jan23.012246.8736@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> brayl@nyx.cs.du.edu (Bill Rayl) writes:
>>
>>Perhaps you haven't heard that Toy R Us has dropped the Lynx?
>
>Has this actually been confirmed, or is it just a rumor that everyone keeps
>repeating, therefore making it true?  On Christmas Eve, the Toys 'R' Us down
>the block from me had tons of Lynx stuff.
>
>
>-- 
>   |||    Ed Krimen
>   |||    ekrimen@wet.uucp
>  / | \   E.KRIMEN (GEnie)
>

Ed,

	"I" have been told by three salespeople from three different
stores that Toys'R'Us is dropping the Lynx.  I have also been told by
five other people that they heard the same thing.


-- 
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: mike@medsun.unige.ch (michel morris)
Subject: OCR/scanner on TT ???
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:07:17 GMT

Sorry folks; this is about using Ataris - no flames!

We are looking at the possibility of setting up our TT for serious OCR. The
Migraph software sounds excellent - has anybody tried it? 
Our scanner is a Hawk CP14, which unfortunately is only 200 dpi. Is this 
going to give us problems? Even more unfortunately, we don't have a 
driver which works on the TT!

Ideas, anyone?

tia,
Mike Morris


Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: jat@cch.coventry.ac.uk (STBW)
Subject: PC DITTO
Summary: Help!!!
Organization: ASHTRAY(Against Short Hair That Really Annoys You)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:25:41 GMT

This is a problem someone has asked me, I've never used pc ditto so I can't
really answer it, so I figure one of you lot maybe able to help !

> I have got an atari st and a copy of pc ditto, when emulating dos the 
> *&$%$%# thing will not allow me access to my beloved hard disk!!!

A nice simple well explained solution would be most welcome,

thanks in advance,

		Jase.



-- 
   \  /     "Me, the artist, has produced all this with my own imagination
   /\/\     and skill... Oi!! Yes, you at the back, stop laughing !"  8~}
 \/ -- \  <jat@uk.ac.cov.cch> is (Mirrir, Skippy, Jase, Slarts... Pick 1 :-)
From: craig@yonder.equinox.gen.nz (Craig Shore)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Organization: Equinox Networks (Public access), Node: Yonder
Subject: Re: MULTI-TOS release, when did it happen ??
Keywords: TOS
	<1993Jan26.002814.5051@netcom.com>
Reply-To: craig@yonder.equinox.gen.nz
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:50:04 +1200

In <1993Jan26.002814.5051@netcom.com>, Eric R. Smith writes:

>I should also point out here that the pricing and distribution methods
>for MultiTOS have not yet been finalized. Bob Brodie expressed *his
>personal opinion* on how *he* would like to see MultiTOS distributed,
>and he was definitely not promising that MultiTOS would be free.

If it does happen, i.e. it's free, Bob said he'd put it on GEnie,
 would you do the same for internet? i.e. put it on atari.archive.umich.edu??

>(Don't bother telling me your opinion: I have no influence on the
>decision. I only work here :-) )

You are writing it though... surley that must give you some influence... 
 well at least an oppotrunity to suggest it anyway! :-) 

 Craig.

-- 
* Craig Shore.  Phone (Voice) +64 3 3852501  * 
*  Email:craig@yonder.equinox.gen.nz  or  shore_c@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz  *