HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Publishers and that lot
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 21:09:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <leebal.714770321@teal> leebal@teal.csn.org (Lee Ballentine) writes:
>(1) Alan Rodgers' NEW LIFE FOR THE DEAD was sought by Bantam, but after
>consultation with other writers who have experienced this "bad book"
>phenomenon with the chains, decided to publish with a small press--
>John Betancourt's WILDSIDE BOOKS.

	Let's see:  he turned down Bantam to publish with John Betancourt.  
I believe that this decision is considered prima facie grounds of insanity in
forty-three states--the others require a second opinion.

>(2) Dan Simmons received the same advice regarding his BROKEN STONES
>collection, but decided to disregard it. The market implications of this
>decision have yet to be seen.

	Dan Simmons has made pretty good decisions thus far about "market
implications."  

>The whole subject seems to be a hot topic among the writers, editors, and
>other publishing people I know. 

	That may be, but your original claim--"most writers won't give their 
collection to a major publisher at all"--remains unproved at best, absurd at
worst.  Show me established writers refusing to publish short story collections
with major publishers--not one but a *list*--and I might accept the above
statement with the phrase "many writers."

>I'm interested mainly because this seems to be another in a series of
>trends that are making "big" publishing more predictable, homogeneous,
>and commodity-oriented... 

	No quarrel there.  Worldwide recession has caused publishers to become
very oh *thrifty* in formerly hot venues such as Japan.  And the commodification
of popular culture continues apace--I heard Jeremy Larner talk last night
about the Hollywood syndrome of doing fewer and bigger movies (i.e., a select
group of _Term II_ clones and the like), which is the film analogue of what
publishers are doing.

	A few years back, I saw a _NYT Magazine_ article about the head of 
Waldenbooks, who said that the chain was interested in hardbound fiction only
when the book in question had a first printing of more than 100,000 and the 
writer was doing a major promo tour.  

	Eek.

>Another symptom: Bantam has decided that they're just publishing
>too many books. Their 1993 frontlist will be about 20 rather than
>30 new titles, and they're consolidating several editorial categories,
>laying off staff, etc. in order to be "more competitive."

>As these books (and authors) are cut from the "big publishing" world,
>there's a push-down effect that benefits the small presses and the
>independent bookstores that handle their books.

	And makes it harder than ever to scrape by as a writer without other
means of support.  
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		   "I swear I never heard the first shot"
                Wm. Gibson, "Agrippa:  a book of the dead"
Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C)
Date: Thursday, 27 Aug 1992 11:11:27 CET
From: <NSTEVEN@ESTEC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject:    How is cyberpunk defined?

What is the official definition (if indeed one exists) of cyberpunk, and how wo
uld I know that I am living a cyberpunk lifestyle.

My impression is that cyberpunk types are into films like 'Blade Runner' and 'E
scape From New York' and have their walls plastered with H.R. Giger prints, but
 this is not really a definition.

Cheers,
Nick.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: pvuyyur@eng.clemson.edu (Vuyyuru Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: what is FAQ?
Reply-To: pvuyyur@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:08:08 GMT




Hi!
	I have seen many answers to the question " What is cyberpunk" being
replied by "READ FAQ". I know many of you will wonder if I am fresh from the
amazon jungles. But this is the first I am reading this news group and only
recently started reading news on the net. Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Prabhu



Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: julie@danzig.micro.umn.edu (Julie Lindner)
Subject: Re: Blade Runner Director's Cut
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:40:08 GMT

In <Hc5HqB2w165w@cybrspc.UUCP> roy%cybrspc@cs.umn.edu (Roy M. Silvernail) writes:

>tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

>> 	This same director's cut will apparently be shown at the Grand Lake
>> Theater in Oakland, California, beginning September 11, 1992.
>> 
>> 	Which might tell us that there's going to be a rash of such showings.

>It's rumored to be coming to Minneapolis in September, too.  I'll get
>some details.

It will be showing in Minneapolis, at the Uptown Theater, beginning
September 11th and I believe it runs through October 8.
--
  Julie Lindner                | I want your hair        so everywhere I go
                               | to cover me with maps   will be as beautiful
  julie@mudhoney.micro.umn.edu | of new places,          as your hair.    RB   
  ___________________________________________________________________________
From: bliss32@terapin.com (Geoff Schmidt)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Another
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:50:52 PST
Organization: BBS

CPish movies was Freejack, I just saw that, although the movie left a lot to be
desired the backgroudn and city was pretty CP.

 bliss

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (wedge)
Subject: Re: How is concerned with appearances defined?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:19:10 GMT

In article <Btp7pu.3sx.1@cs.cmu.edu> tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price) writes:
|What is the official definition (if indeed one exists) of concerned with
|appearances, and how would I know that I am living a concerned with 
|appearances lifestyle.
|
|My impression is that concerned with appearances types are into certain films 
|and have their walls plastered with certain prints, but this is not really a 
|definition.

Woah....this one *almost* got by me...I really like the nice subtle
reply to the familiar 'what is cp' question but I disagree with your
reply a shitload, tho.....

If you feel that, ummm, all cyberpunk is is just concerned about
appearances, then you're most certainly entitled to that
opinion....But, man, there's so much beyond that....Just because this
is a neu-romancing group and the conversation may seem on a pretty
juvy level at times, that doesn't mean that's what it's all about...

Ever read Storming the Reality Studio?  If you haven't - do.  Then,
turn in your book report to alt.cp.net.public....$10 says your
perception will 've changed....Cyberpunk is more than appearances,
more than an attitude, more than a sub-culture....

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Linguistic/conceptual
From: daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran) 
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:23:00 GMT
Reply-To: daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

BC>I must make a hazy reference to a chinese quote which runs, loosely, like:
BC> A thought that is spoken is a thought that is changed.

The map is not the object. Language is insufficient. Fortunately, it's
not all we have. Music, painting, sports (at least at the playing level)
all help give commonality to the internal referents of the people who
have shared that experience. If you watch basketball you may know what a
"give-and-go" is -- but unless you play the game, you can't know how it
feels to perform it. And all the words in the world can't do more than
give you a vague intimation of what the act feels like.
---
 . OLX 2.1 TD . Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
                                                                         
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: rjn@FC.HP.COM (Bob Niland)
Subject: Re: Blade Runner FAQ/Analysis Wanted
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:02:39 GMT
Reply-To: rjn@FC.HP.COM
Organization: Hewlett-Packard/WSY Ft.Collins,CO,USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (tao master of existential angst) writes:

: Could someone please direct me to someplace where I might find some
: information on Blade Runner?  I'm taking a class where we read the
: film (ie: analyze ad nauseum, moreso than Ridley Scott ever would've
: thought possible :)...So I could really use an anlysis or a FAQ or
: some vital information....

1. Start with the CAV LaserDisc, Criterion Collection CC1120L.  It is
   a widescreen presentation with various still-frame supplements.
   Avoid the CLV CC1169L (no supplements) and Nelson/Embassy 13806
   (cropped).

2. Attend a screening of "BladeRunner'92", The Director's Cut, being
   released next week.

3. Find an archive site for rec.arts.movies, alt.cult-movies and
   rec.arts.sf.movies.  BR has been discussed to death in them.

Regards,                                              Hewlett-Packard
Bob Niland      Internet: rjn@FC.HP.COM               3404 East Harmony Road
                CompuServe:  71044,2124               Ft Collins CO 80525-9599

This article represents only the opinion[s] of its author, and is not an
official or unofficial position of, or statement by, the Hewlett-Packard
Company.  The text is provided for informational purposes only.  It is
supplied without warranty of any kind.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!!
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:40:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.120320.7146@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>By the way i'm not a comunist.  I'm a democratic soltialist.
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess it's time that Billy Bragg got himself a drum machine, a sampler,
and an effects box, eh?  

There's power in an enum,
power in a struct
power in the hands of a hacker
but it all amounts to nothing if your #defines are all fucked
there is power in a union

(I can't remember the rest, sorry.)

@Man
-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Laundry: the process of turning perfectly good clothes into lint.
From: leebal@teal.csn.org (Lee Ballentine)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Publishers and that lot
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:18:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

>In article <leebal.714488752@teal> leebal@teal.csn.org (Lee Ballentine) writes:
>>All of which explains why the short story collection is a dying
>>niche of specialty publishing. Since sales of these collections are
>>usually much smaller than sales of novels (self-fulfilling
>>prediction?)... most writers won't give their collection to a
>>major publisher at all. 

>	Do you have any actual data about this?  I know several writers who
>have sold short story collections, some of them to more than one publisher
>(for instance, Bruce Sterling's _Crystal Express_ came out in a small hardbound
>edition from Arkham House, then became a mass market paperback), and I don't
>know of a single writer who has refused to sell a story collection to a major
>publisher.

My "evidence" is somewhat anecdotal, and I probably need to tread lightly
here, but--

(1) Alan Rodgers' NEW LIFE FOR THE DEAD was sought by Bantam, but after
consultation with other writers who have experienced this "bad book"
phenomenon with the chains, decided to publish with a small press--
John Betancourt's WILDSIDE BOOKS.

(2) Dan Simmons received the same advice regarding his BROKEN STONES
collection, but decided to disregard it. The market implications of this
decision have yet to be seen.

The whole subject seems to be a hot topic among the writers, editors, and
other publishing people I know. 

I'm interested mainly because this seems to be another in a series of
trends that are making "big" publishing more predictable, homogeneous,
and commodity-oriented... the silver lining (for readers if not for
writers) is that more and more good work will wind-up in the small press,
where more chances are taken, there are more options available, and
the consolidation mentality has not taken hold.

Another symptom: Bantam has decided that they're just publishing
too many books. Their 1993 frontlist will be about 20 rather than
30 new titles, and they're consolidating several editorial categories,
laying off staff, etc. in order to be "more competitive."

As these books (and authors) are cut from the "big publishing" world,
there's a push-down effect that benefits the small presses and the
independent bookstores that handle their books.

Lee Ballentine
probook@csn.org
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: shaun@octel.com (Eine keine Nichtmusik)
Subject: Re: present  state of technology
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:46:07 GMT

In article <d!_nfwd.mesm@netcom.com> mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
>
>My only complaint about virtual reality, is that Nintendo made
>the power glove, and no one has hooked it up to a PC or Mac or
>something common for the masses to experiment with.

I believe that there have been more Nintendo sets sold than the number of Macs
and PC clones put together.

"100 megabytes?  How many megabits is that?"  <hunnnnnnnnh>


Note: <hunnnnnnh> is a noise made when "Heaving a dhuu," which is a noise
very much like the one one makes when punched in the stomach.  One tightens
up the diaphragm, throat, and mouth, and expels all the air in the lungs
quickly, while making a dumb, slack-jawed expression.  This noise and 
expression indicate that a comment of extreme stupidity or ignorange was made 
very recently in the dhuu heaver's immediate vicinity which can only be 
explained by some sort of mental seizure overcoming the utterer of the 
ill-thought-out comment, shutting down the higher brain functions and leaving 
one conversing with a stem with an attitude.  

@Man
-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Laundry: the process of turning perfectly good clothes into lint.
From: rclarke@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!!
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:56:23 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

>  Interesting. Your earlier paragraph stated that you desired freedom of 
> information. However, this above statement seems to contradict that.
> 
>  You say that rich people (relative richness, globally) own most computer 
> resources, so to bring everyone to equality ya gotta shut the net down. 
> How odd...considering that the particular net you are posting on happens 
> to provide information to anyone that wants to have a look. Sure, those 
> in impoverished nations may not own a computer, but gosh, those same 
> nations barely have phone services. How can they call in? It seems to me 
> that if you want to bring everyone to a single classless society, attack 
> the governments that keep these people in suppression, I suppose. ^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was talking about the future that is very near us and descibed in Gibsons
books.  It seams to me that a futre where access to information would proably
by privatised.  In shutting down the net you would be attaching the government
because the rich (who control it) would be dependant on the net.  What I
didn't make clear in my first post is that shutting down the net wouldn't be
the hole job.  You would have to organise a large scale revoluition.  The
only thing is that the rich would, in a normal situation blow you to kingdom
come.  So if you really knocked them off gard a revolution would be much more
posiable.  Then once in power the poor would be able fix the position of power
and bring up the net again with accses for all. 

>  Shutting down the net would prevent you from airing your views. Hacking 
> (you must mean cracking) the net just to bring it down for the people's 
> revolution would be foolish...do you realize how much information goes 
> across the internet? This is not just a fancy bbs.
> 
>  Don't smash the net. Make it so everyone can have access to it, even if 
> you just manage to put a terminal in every township, paid for by the 
> government, or whatever. Maybe you could fund the effort.
> 
>  Although I doubt you would, considering that your reasonings are flawed 
> along with your view of how things are run in the world.
What this?  I am mealy talking hypothectical politics.  Though I don't think 
that my view of the world is flawed my reasoning may be.  That's why I posted
this.  So we can thrash it out.  In Canada (where I live) we are ruled by a 
prime minister that serves the rich and screws the poor.  And we all know about
George.
> 
>    MI
> 
> --
> megazone@rivdell.UUCP (Megazoner)
> Rivendell BBS -*- Houston, TX -*- +1(713)941-2236
Rclarke@AC.DAL.CA
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: osendai@well.sf.ca.us (Mark Pesce)
Subject: Re: Mondo 2000: R. U. Sirius
Keywords: like, totally, y'know
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:54:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.082952.3760@microsoft.com> petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly) writes:
>In article <20AUG199200352143@deimos.ucc.umass.edu> s7356911@deimos.ucc.umass.edu (DYLYN) writes:
>>Bill writes:
>>>... Our society has been organized in pyramidal power structures for 6000 plus 
>>>years-- it's an ingrained tendency, now...
>>	Sorry, don't agree, for a number of reasons.  First,  it's true some
>>hierarchical societies existed roughly 4-6 K years ago, but they were 
>>exceptions.  The great mass of societies were egalitarian ones at that point.
>>	I especially disagree with the "ingrained tendency' point.  How does
>>6000 years (barely a moment in the evolutionary timetable) of stratified states
>>counteract the million or so years of human existence in egalitarian societies?
>>I admit hierarchy is a dominant way of organization now, but I believe we
>>anarchists at least have instinct and evolution on our side.   One of the 
>>things that attracts me to some cpunk writing is that, sometimes, it mirrors
>>capitalist society as it is now ( _Count Zero_, "Stone Lives" in the _Mirror-
>>shades_ anthology) -- cutthroat, mercenary, without regard for human needs 
>>unless there is money in it.
>
>Wait a second.  Could you name some of the egalitarian societies.  
>I keep on trying to think of some, but every time I think I get close,
>I find hierarchical constructs.
>Tribal societies have an obvious hierarchy.
>The Family has some similarities to a hierarchy.  (well, in most cases
>it is one).
>
>In fact, even true anarchy tends to stratify pretty quickly, with the person
>with the most resources of importance (be they guns, money, cars, whatever),
>being the person on top.
>
>The only way you can keep truly egalitarian is if you only have one person.
>
>As far as ingrained tendency, well, stratisfied states have existed for
>millions of years.  There's a food chain isn't there.  Most social animals
>develop a pecking order.  
>
>
>petesk@microsoft.com
>My Opinions...
>
>


Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to the fray.

According to McLuhan, from "Understanding Media", there hasn't
been any real hierarchy since the invention of the telegraph
(1840's).  No center, and no edge.

Anyone who thinks there is, in any _real_ sense, is just
dealing with an outdated reality-construct.  Not that those
can't kill (just bait a police officer for proof).

Mark Pesce
From: gs32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Geoffrey Spear)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: How is cyberpunk defined?
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:37:53 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	There is no "official" definition of CyberPunk, as this was just a term
applied to the various authors who began the genre.  They usually
referred to it simply as "The Movement".  However, the label "cyberpunk"
sounds better, so it stuck.  

	Like I've suggested before, if you're really interested, read Bruce
Sterling's preface in Mirrorshades.  It tells the history of the
Movement.
From: z_hiltoncc@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!! [sic]
Date: 4 Sep 92 01:55:38 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

> If you don't have hope that things will get better then why bother living?

Actually, I don't have much hope and I don't bother living.


BUT IT KEEPS HAPPENING TO ME ANYWAY!

Appy polly loggies for my pessimism.

C. Hilton
From: ccb@macbeth.umd.edu (Phoenix)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Television
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:58:27 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1SEP199219241421@juliet.caltech.edu> tychay@juliet.caltech.edu (Chay, Terrence Y.) writes:
>In article <1DRFqB2w165w@cyberden.uucp>
>better."  Of course, I don't necessarily agree...
>  I think that there was an article about the poorer grammar used by Mac users
>vs. IBM users.  The conclusion drawn was that either Mac's attract stupider
>people or that Mac's make you stupid (hmm... no wonder my grammar stinks!). 

The article appeared last year in The Journal of Higher Education (if
memory serves) and caused an enormous stir. The point of the article
(and the flawed, informal survey) was that as a whole, papers written
on a Macintosh received lower grades than those written on an MS-DOS
machine. The author's hypothesis was that students spent more time
addressing aesthetic issues when using a Mac than when using a MS-DOS
computer.

I don't want to revive/propogate the debate here, however...

"Seeing much, suffering much            -Blake Sobiloff (ccb@umd5.umd.edu)
and studying much, are the               Human-Computer Interaction Lab
three pillars of learning."              Department of Psychology
         -Disraeli                       University of Maryland
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:3971 alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo:536 alt.cyberpunk.tech:575 alt.cyberspace:597
From: Jennifer.M.Collins@dartmouth.edu (Jennifer M. Collins)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo,alt.cyberpunk.tech,alt.cyberspace
Subject: Repost Please??  CD-ROM Order Form?
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:38:06 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hey all--

A couple of days ago *someone* posted (I'm not sure to which newsgroup
exactly...) a description and order form for what sounded like an
amazing CD-ROM ... the one with all of the info on AI and Neuronets and
artificial life and on and on ... well, I had wanted to order it but I
didn't manage to get back to the net soon enough and the message had
expired!  So, could whomever posted the message originally (or anyone
who has a copy of it) either repost it or send it directly to me via
e-mail?  Thanks so much ...

-almitra
************************************************************************
*****
* Jen Collins           ***** "When we made love, you used to cry ..." 
    *
* almitra@dartmouth.edu ***** "Romeo and Juilet", The Indigo Girls     
    *
*                       *****               (--I know it's a remake...)
    *
************************************************************************
*****
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk