From: 8809787l@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: IRAN, AFGHANESTAN, THE ARABS etc. (RE: BABAK )
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:08:18 +1030
Organization: University of South Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au
Originator: daemon@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au

Dorood Bar Shoma Iranianeh Aziz


I have been observing some of the latest discussions on the SCI
in regards to nationalism ( which I have already expressed my
views on in an article to SCI some weeks ago ) and other matters
relating to Afghanistan etc.

I have also seen some comments made in regards to Mr Sehari's
comments on this matters. Some the comments were from Iranians
and others from some of our Afghan friends on the net.

Well I again have come to the conclusion that I must really say
something and so hopefully contribute the discussions taking
place presently on SCI regarding the above mentioned matters.

Firstly let me say that all of you out there must bare with me
as my present posting is to be fairly long and so please do
excuse me for taking so much bandwidth, but I do feel and hope
that you may find this posting of some use in reference to some
of the current issues presently being undertaken.

Lets initially look at the historical, geographical and tribal
make up of the nation know as IRAN. The one thing which we should
always take into consideration is that very little written or
other types of documents remain from the Iranians themselves in
regards to their own history, and this is the reason that we must
rely heavily on foreign ( mainly Western ) historical documents
to deduce any significant information on our back ground.

From what has been found in terms of archaeological finds it is
apparent that some 6000 years before Christ ( 6000 BC ) there
were farming and organised village communities [1] and also
excavations at Sharh-i-Sokhla ( south-east Iran ) have showed
evidence of flourishing city and trading centres in Iran as far
back as 3000 BC. We must also take into consideration the recent
reports of a 10000 year old city found in recent excavations in
Iran. These and other finds have conclusively shown that some of
the earliest known prehistoric settlements took place in Iran.

The people that did populate these regions in the indicated
period were not the Aryan tribes which were to dominate the
worlds affairs for many centuries to come but these were people
who originated probably from central Asia. 
It must be noted here that although we talk about the great
PERSIAN EMPIRE of CYRUS THE GREAT but the piece of history which
we have been looking at above simply means IRAN HAS HAD
CIVILIZATION ( ie. organised cities and trade place ) FOR OVER
10000 YEARS,in contrast Mesopotamia ( Iraq ) , Egypt and
Phoenicians and Hebrews have their beginnings marked as 3000 BC
or 5000 years ago and the Indians and Chinese have their epochs
of civilization as 2000 to 2500 BC which simply means 4000 to
4500 years ago [2]. ( I have mentioned this as many times in the
SCI I have seen many people having doubts about these dates and
so comparisons of the histories of these countries ).

The Aryan influx into what is now Iran began some 3000 years ago
( about 1000 BC ). These Aryans ( or noble tribes as the word
Aryan has this meaning ) were from the siberian regions of what
use to be the USSR ( originally from northern europe ). As these
Aryan tribes moved south a group also entered northern India.
The Aryans who entered Iran broke into two groups and later into
rival kingdoms know as the Medians ( Madha ) and the Persian (
Parsa ). The Medians settled just south of the Caspian Sea in
what is now present day Hamadan, and the Persians settled farther
south towards the Persian Gulf. Also it must be mentioned that
the present day people of Georgia ( Gorjestan ), Armenia (
Armanestan ) and Azarbaijan which were part of USSR are all from
the same Aryan tribes which eventually settled in Iran as the
Medes and the Persians.

It was around 546 BC that CYRUS THE GREAT for the first time
united all of these tribes and formed what was THE GREATEST
EMPIRE that the WORLD HAD EVER SEEN. Also IRAN BECAME THE FIRST
SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD [3]. During this period of Achaemenid
( Hakhamaneshy ) Empire Iran went through a era of prosperity and
advancement the likes of which have rarely appeared again in
world history both for Iran and for any other country.

Many road systems were developed  one of which ran across the
Empire connecting the Aegean coast to Susa the capital ( some
1600 miles or 2500 kilometres. This was a royal pathway for the
kings messengers, it contained some 111 post-stations and
messengers changing horses could complete the route in ONE WEEK.
This road and others like it which were networked throughout the
Empire were a precedent for the famous Roman roads.

Many other marvels of the civil engineering of that period could
be seen in places such as PASARGADAE, PERSEPOLIS, Ecbatana (
Hamadan ) and SUSA.

Also among the greatest of all Achaemenids achievements was that
of the system of government and law. It is because of this that
CYRUS and DIRUS (I) have gone down in history as the two of the
World's greatest law-givers " The Law of the Medes and the
Persians" [4].

It was these same Iranians That later in their history after the
invasion of the Arabs introduced the ways of Civilization and
Scientific Knowledge to the invading Barbarians.
Here I must explain what is meant firstly by the word ARAB and
the word BARBARIAN.

The word Arab today refers to inhabitants of such countries as
Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc. because of the language
which these people speak. When I used the word Arab above I meant
the inhabitants of what is now Saudi Arabia ( ie. were the
prophet Mohammed came from ). This term I believe should only be
used in context of the people of Saudi Arabia as Egyptians etc
who may speak arabic are not arabs as we know this from their
geographical, racial and historical back ground.

And the word barbaric refers to uncivilized ie. people who life
in an unorganised social group with no laws or regards for
individuals within their community.

I do know that some people may object but the reality of the
matter is that at the time ( ie. 1300 years ago ) the arabs (
saudi-arabians ) were uncivilized , barbaric, thoughtless and
unorganised , but some organisation was provided to them by the
prophet mohammed through his spiritual and social teachings this
together with the fact that the SASSANIAN Empire had for many
years suffered from internal corruption lead to the over throw
of the king and the arabs took over.

This period again was a time of flourishment of the Iranian
culture and art in the following sense. Iranians have always over
powered their invaders after accepting them, in this case they
accepted Islam but indirectly took over the governmental systems
and other systems of rule. This was due to the arabs not being
able to handle the vast Empire which they had acquired. This
process has occurred many times in Iranian history [5].

In the same way what we hear in the West about the so called Arab
genius during the Islamic times in the areas of politics, Science
( ie. medicine, physics, chemistry, astronomy and astrology and
mathematics and philosophy and literature (poetry etc ))Mystesim
are mostly the works of great IRANIANS who had to write in Arabic
as this was the official language. Some of the greatest of
philosopher and physicians such as Razy and Avecina were
Iranians, also FARABI the philosopher who introduced philosophy
to the arabs and who was the first to write a treatise on music
in the Islamic world. It has also been noted by Khaleghi one of
Irans renowned musicians of modern Iran that what is called
Turkish or Arabic Music now is a variation of the Iranian music
which was introduced to these people during the Islamic period
ad the arabs specially did not poses any form of what can be
classified as music. This is the same as medicine all of these
sciences were introduced by Iranians to the invading arabs and
even their eventual research and development in these areas were
made by the Iranians themselves, and as mentioned before all of
the significant scientists of the period who stood out of the
rest were mostly Iranians (ie more than 80% of them ).

It is here that I want to say that being proud of ones heritage
is not prejudice. Some may think some Iranians are prejudice
because of such comments which I have made here but I would like
to tell you that this is absolutely incorrect and people should
know that although Iranians are decedents of the Aryan tribes of
europe but the so called raciest attitudes of the europeans have
never been found in our country as history shows.

Who would have been more nationalist than CYRUS the great and we
know that he was the saviour of all of his people including the
people whose lands he gained in battle and for the period which
he ruled Iran he had always respected all of his people and their
individual cultures and religions.

We are as can be seen made up of many different tribes in the
region and have learned to live with each over the 100's of
centuries and the tribes described encompass peoples of such
countries as Afghanistan and many of the caspian sea countries.
This was evident right upto the last century. 

This why I believe that Mr Sehari can not be put down by
suggesting that countries such as Afghanistan could be part of
a Iranian federation. This is not because Iran may seek to
undermined the Afghan peoples sovrenty but it is due to the fact
that because of their close religious , cultural and historical
ties such countries should unit and not split as many are doing
so in a turbulent world which we are seeing at the moment.
Such moves would be beneficial for all parties . Let me just say
that before such moves could take place countries like Iran and
Afghanistan would have to become stable both economically and
politically and socially. This means that civil war and fenatisim
must give way to freedom and democracy.

Iran forexample is in a situation which is unmatched since the
collapse of the PERSIAN EMPIRE some 2000 years ago or the Arab
invasion some 1300 years ago. We have seen that even under the
Arab rulers we experienced prosperity during some periods , but
yes this time we have been invaded by our own gang of lutes and
ravagers and this is a new experience for us. As always we have
been invaded from outside never from within. Any way once Iran
and our other neighbours start to move towards democracy then a
situation will eventuate which may result in closer ties and
cooperation.


Ghorbaneh Shoma

Payam
#! rnews 1078