From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Anarchy in Somalia
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:14:34 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <1993Jan22.204150.16577@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.005434.29000@vela.acs.oakland.edu> w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu writes:
>>In article <1993Jan20.235312.18675@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
>>>It's not the lack of government which is the source of immorality.
>>>It's what happens when people realize they can get away with just
>>>about anything and not be punished for it.  That's the way a lot of
>>>people are.
>>
>>Is that the way you are?  Would you misbehave if you realized you could
>>get away with just about anything and not be punished for it?
>
>Read what I said.  That's the way a /lot/ of people are, e.g., Ted Bundy,
>or Adoph Hitler or Joseph Stalin, pick any sociopath.

And like any other sociopath, they believe themselves more clever than
others and do not fear getting caught. Therefore government threats have
no meaning to them. *After* they have their way with you, government *may*
catch them and kill them, but that's cold comfort at best.

>>Is having the guerrilla on my side (as opposed to the side of the propertied
>>elite) a real possibility?  If not, why should I show any allegiance to it?
>
>I did say "more or less."  What would you do if you were assaulted or
>your property was stolen ?  You can try to talk with the attacker if you
>want, but I'll go to the police.

I'd prefer blowing the SOB away on the spot thank you very much, but that
damn gorrilla is likely to jump on me if I do. It's deterrance value works
to the advantage of the thief.

>>By accepting fear of punishment as your protection you also accept it
>>as your own moral compass.
>
>Wrong, it's just a way to survive.  Don't pay taxes the gov't says you owe;
>see where it gets you.  If you prefer to live in jail go for it.

Oppose the gorrilla and he pounces, big surprise. The only effective
protection the gorrilla is willing to offer is protection *from the
gorrilla* if you pay up and be a nice sheep. You don't seem to grasp
that the gorrilla is your worst enemy.

>>Government is NOT a means by which honest people protect themselves from
>>dishonest people.
>
>Like hell it isn't; unfortunately, it is also abused by bad people and
>used for inappropriate purposes.

Government is a reactive instrument of, sometimes, retribution. It can
almost never protect you. In fact, the government is under no obligation
to even *try* to protect you according to the Supremes.

>>It is a "service" offered by the "profession of arms" (and the financiers
>>who are in a position to broker that profession) to anyone who is willing
>>to surrender their individual conscience and accept authority as the
>>standard of right/wrong.
>
>Snore.

Snore if you like, he's dead on target. Government *is* a protection
racket, and like any protection racket, the only protection you get
is *from* the government, and damn little of that.

>>OF COURSE life is relatively dangerous if you don't.  TANSTAAFL!
>
>ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Life is relatively dangerous *anyway*, with or without Big Brother.
The only practical difference is that removal of government removes
the largest group of armed thugs from your threat board.

Gary

-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
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From: mic@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Clarke)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 03:30:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Brady Bill
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Ft. Collins, CO