HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burt@techbook.com (Burt Keeble)
Subject: Re: 8 year old hates 3rd grade math
Keywords: teacher, math, hate
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:30:57 GMT

In article <holly.40@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com> holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise) writes:
>My 8 year old daughter hates math.  She gets excellent grades in every 
>subject but math.  The teacher says it's not that she doesn't know how, but 
>she will sit and stare at her belly button instead of doing her work in 
>class, especially if work involves more than 1 step, i.e., adding and then 
>dividing.  I give her extra at home and she whines and complains the whole 
>time.  If she gets it wrong the first time, she complains even more.  I'd 
>like to make her like it, if possible.  Is there anyway to make it fun?  I 
>started her with a tutor (only 1 session so far), and she hates tutor and 
>cries during her visits with her.  She said she's not used to so much math 
>and doesn't see why she should learn it.  I've explained all the reasons 
>math is necessary to no avail.  Any way to turn this attitude around?
>-----
>holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com

Lighten up mom!   Cancel the tutor.  Leave mandatory math instruction at
the school requirement level.

Your daughter's issue is no longer about math.  Help her with the
homework, with the rationale being that the school requires it.  Do it
to get it out of the way.

Yes, math is fun, but not when you're forced.

Here is some fun math:

   Square One
   Mathnet
   3-2-1 Contact

These are all after-school viewing on PBS.   Your daughter will probably
enjoy those shows.  And you will also.  Take an afternoon off from work
and watch them with her (but don't make a big production about how good
they are--because that will turn your daughter off).  Hey, you guys
could even make some cookies to go with the show.

-burt

-- 

If there isn't any light at the end         ,__c
of your tunnel, try self-delusion;        _-\_<,
It works!    burt@techbook.com...........(*)/'(*)
Xref: sparky alt.parents-teens:615 alt.child-support:1045
From: denise@arabia.uucp (Denise Difilippo)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: runaways
Date: 7 Apr 1992 18:42:40 GMT
Organization: nasa-jsc

I started this thread a couple of weeks ago.  I've read and thought
about every reply.  I consciously avoided responding frequently
because wanted to hear what you all had to say, without my
interference.  Thank you all for your thoughts.

Some of the things suggested were things I tried.  For example, I
did call a runaway hotline listed in the phone book (it was not
the '9's number someone suggested), and the advice I got from them
was essentially what I ended up doing.  (Let them stay long enough
to calm down, try to convince them to go back, don't let them
just leave.)

Someone suggested that the kids should have talked to the guy
at the runaway hotline, an excellent suggestion which I just
didn't think of at the time.  Also, I was intrigued by someone's
suggestion of taking the children to a shelter for runaways.
Do such places exist in most cities?  I will surely try to find
out if there is one near me.  (Although I sincerely hope never
to need it again!)  Do they differ significantly from the type of
place (children's mental health center) that these kids were 
running from?

I do not know in detail the behaviour histories of these children,
but what I do know convinces me that there was more involved
than messy room type rebellion.  One child had been physically
abusive to her family (an adult would have been jailed for assault),
and refused to participate in family counselling, even when offered
the right to choose or reject a particular therapist.  Another 
was dealing with a sibling suicide.  Another shared with me details
of achohol and drug abuse (not just moderate experimentation)
histories.

At least two of the children were on the phone frequently, calling
the families which they claimed not to want to know where they were.
That, and the fact that came with me gladly, I interrpreted as 
a call for help.

The actual mix of the kids was 3 girls, ages 12 & 13, and one boy,
age 15.  This added some interesting dynamics to the group.

This has been a real learning experience for me.  

Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions.

denise@aio.jsc.nasa.gov
From: lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu (Andy Lazare)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: looking for pam
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:33:50 GMT
Distribution: alt.parents-teens
Organization: North Carolina A&T State University


sorry to have to put this on the list.

a nice lady named pam responded to my post on eating disorders. 

well pam, i have lost your address. can you send it to me? 

thanks

this has been a message from the emergency stupid user system

now back to your regular scheduled broadcasting

-- 
andy lazare                  internet  lazarea@garfield.ncat.edu
n.c. a&t state univ                    lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu
greensboro, n.c.             bitnet    lazarea@atsuvax1.bitnet
From: lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu (Andy Lazare)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: teen with eating disorder
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:14:03 GMT
Distribution: alt.parents-teen
Organization: North Carolina A&T State University

my 14 yr old daughter has an eating disorder. we were not aware of it
until the school councelor called us. a couple of my daughter's friends
had told the councelor. she told us my daughter had signs of being
bulemicbulemic (sp?). 

she is a little overweight. we knew she was eating a lot. especially
between the time she got home from school and my wife got home from
work. we have made an appointment with a doctor who specializes in
eating disorders. has anyone else ever had experience with this? 

another question. do you think it would be worth it to send my daughter
to a weight loss clinic  instead of the psychologist? we have tried
putting her on diets, not having a lot of junk around the house, and
trying to control what she eats, but we can't be with her 24 hours a
day. and she can't seem to do it herself. if she was able to loose wait
at one of these weight loss clinics, which i don't know much about,
could she overcome the eating disorder? or is it more psychological than
that?

me and my wife realize that it might be beyond us. meaning that we need
outside help. when we say something about her eating, it usually starts
an argument. 

it amazes me to watch my daughter and her friends eat. when some of her
friends spend the night, or any long amount of time, it seems all they
do is eat. my daughter is the only one that is overweight.
 
andy








-- 
andy lazare                  internet  lazarea@garfield.ncat.edu
n.c. a&t state univ                    lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu
greensboro, n.c.             bitnet    lazarea@atsuvax1.bitnet
 
Xref: sparky alt.parents-teens:629 alt.child-support:1103
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Runaways
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 23:50:44 GMT

In article <1992Mar31.225148.18075@cco.caltech.edu> danlip@cco.caltech.edu (Daniel Adam Lipofsky) writes:
>
>.... In addition, by her actions, she also supports
>the gross human rights violations which occur daily in this country,
>mainly that those under 18 years of age are denied the rights of free
>movement and are jailed without trial and without committing any crime.
>While her actions may have been legally required, they were ethically
>wrong.  When the law conflicts with what is right, a person must make a
>choice.  In my opinion, the wrong choice was made.
>

Okay, so 18 is an arbitrary age for being held responsible for one's actions.
I'll agree.  But since each individual is different, we have to be arbitrary.
If 80% of the population is NOT mature at 17, but is mature by 19, then
18 seems like a good dividing point.  

Surely you wouldn't expect a 2YO to be granted complete freedom of movement.
There has to be some cutoff.

What does it mean to be a juvenile?  In addition to what you consider to be
a heinous crime, limitation of freedom of movement, come a lot of priveleges.

A juvenile you cannot enter a legal contract.  At age 16 you can buy a car on 
credit (assuming you can find someone who will sell it to you) and not make a 
single car payment and you are NOT legally responsible.  You cannot be sued.  

If you damage someone's property, you are not held legally liable.  Your 
parents are.

You are not required to perform jury duty.  

However, since your parents are legally liable for your actions, they have
the privelege/responsibility of controlling your freedoms.  This is necessary
for their own well being.  And, it is deemed by our society to be for your
own good as well.

I certainly agree that there are some 16 year olds mature enough to function
as adults and some 40 year olds that aren't.  In both cases, there are legal
actions which can be taken to ensure the safety of all concerned.  A 16 year
old can declare himself an emancipated minor.  This means that he is now
legally liable for his own actions.  He can now be considered an adult and
enter into adult legal contracts.  He can manage his own affairs.  And he
has freedom of movement.  A 40 year old can be declared mentally incompetent
and have a legal guardian appointed.  The 40 year old now has the priveleges
or lack thereof of the non-emancipated minor.

Frankly, I think this is about as good as we, as a society can do.  We have
a general rule and the legal ability to make exceptions should circumstances
or necessity require we do so.  What more do you want?
-- 
"This is just a test.  Had this been a real life, you would have been given
further instructions on where to go and what to do."
							Judy Leedom Tyrer
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: contraceptives
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 02:35:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

What kind of humans would we be if we forgot to tell our children how
to preserve their own lives?  

If we do not enable them to survive we have failed at the first and
foremost task.

Everything is secondary when compared to survival. You cannot teach a
corpse about morality.

My 15 year old has 25 condoms in her drawer. Although she is not having
sex yet, I have given her the tools for survival should she decide to.
Above all else I want her to survive and I want this epidemic to stop.
rf
From: kprashan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (hyderabadi)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: 8 year old hates 3rd grade math
Keywords: teacher, math, hate
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:10:31 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <holly.40@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com>, holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise) writes:
> My 8 year old daughter hates math.  She gets excellent grades in every 
> subject but math.  The teacher says it's not that she doesn't know how, but 
> she will sit and stare at her belly button instead of doing her work in 
> class, especially if work involves more than 1 step, i.e., adding and then 
> dividing.  I give her extra at home and she whines and complains the whole 
> time.  If she gets it wrong the first time, she complains even more.  I'd 
> like to make her like it, if possible.  Is there anyway to make it fun?  I 
> started her with a tutor (only 1 session so far), and she hates tutor and 
> cries during her visits with her.  She said she's not used to so much math 
> and doesn't see why she should learn it.  I've explained all the reasons 
> math is necessary to no avail.  Any way to turn this attitude around?
> -----
> holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com


I am not sure I have solid suggestions on how to make you daughter
like math. Having said that, I personally feel that you are doing
the right thing my making her do extra work at home. My earliest 
memories are those of my mom sitting down with me in 4th grade
making me do all the exercises in the book. There was no escaping 
that. The other kids didnt do that. I didnt want to do that. Very
few kids, if any, will do that willingly. However, I think that 
tutoring by a stranger at that young age is not a good idea.
To listen and understand why the tutor (who is neither her regular
school teacher nor a parent) wants her to do something and she has
to do it is right now beyond her maturity.

Good luck.


__________________________________________________________
| Prashanth                    |                         |
| U. of California @ San Diego | prash@bhaskara.ucsd.edu |
##########################################################
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: teen with eating disorder
Date: 11 Apr 92 17:13:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.s76o7INNkrf
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu (Andy Lazare) writes:
>my 14 yr old daughter has an eating disorder. we were not aware of it
>until the school councelor called us. a couple of my daughter's friends
>had told the councelor. she told us my daughter had signs of being
>bulemic (sp?). 
> [...]
>another question. do you think it would be worth it to send my daughter
>to a weight loss clinic  instead of the psychologist? we have tried
>putting her on diets, not having a lot of junk around the house, and
>trying to control what she eats, but we can't be with her 24 hours a
>day.

If the diagnosis of bulimia is correct, then the psychologist is the right
choice, not the weight loss clinic.  bulimia isn't fundamentally about
weight, or even eating -- those things are symptoms.  What it's about (of
course this is a one-sentence simplification) is a problematic sense of
not being in control, most directly of her own body, and ultimately of her
life in general.

My guess is that the psychologist will tell you that your efforts to
supervise your daughter's diet, although well-motivated, just make the
underlying problem worse.  I'm not saying this to blame you!  It's not a
question of blame, just of trying to figure out the best way to help.
But in any case you should probably go with the advice you get from the
professional who's seeing your daughter, not with what some random guy
says on the net.  :-)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: AS.DCB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Dan Blomquist)
Subject: Re: Minors right of access to contraceptives?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:50:58 GMT

In article <807@dogear.spk.wa.us>,
root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:
>In article <GILHAM.92Apr13145955@assault.csl.sri.com> gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) writes:
>>
>>Third, it tends toward totalitarianism.  I find it ironic that people
>>who are concerned with civil liberties will seek to support these
>>liberties using state-sponsored education.  The state becomes
>>........
>
>Fred, this isn't about civil liberties. What is being advocated isn't
>some sequel to the 1960's Free Love genre.
>
>Bob Kirkpatrick

I disagree about being a sequel to the 60's Free love  era.
How can we teach our kids any morals about sex when we don't
practice them ourselves?  Abstinence may not be the answer for some
but how about ONE partner for LIFE.  Diseases don't get passed
around when you don't pass your body around!
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Holly Wise)
Subject: 8 year old hates 3rd grade math
Summary: Please help my daughter like math
Keywords: teacher, math, hate
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 23:13:37 GMT

My 8 year old daughter hates math.  She gets excellent grades in every 
subject but math.  The teacher says it's not that she doesn't know how, but 
she will sit and stare at her belly button instead of doing her work in 
class, especially if work involves more than 1 step, i.e., adding and then 
dividing.  I give her extra at home and she whines and complains the whole 
time.  If she gets it wrong the first time, she complains even more.  I'd 
like to make her like it, if possible.  Is there anyway to make it fun?  I 
started her with a tutor (only 1 session so far), and she hates tutor and 
cries during her visits with her.  She said she's not used to so much math 
and doesn't see why she should learn it.  I've explained all the reasons 
math is necessary to no avail.  Any way to turn this attitude around?
-----
holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: AS.DCB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Dan Blomquist)
Subject: Re: Minors right of access to contraceptives?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:54:04 GMT

In article <167CBD95C.X045KF@tamvm1.tamu.edu>,
X045KF@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Kimberly Faircloth) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.162220.11068@wdl.loral.com>
>gjs@wdl30.wdl.loral.com (Gregory Scott) writes:
>
>>1.  I submit to you that access to contraceptives, at least condoms,
>>is a non-issue.  Here, in California, you can go down to the durg
>>store in the mall and buy all kinds of over the counter contraceptives.
>>Even the local service station mini-mart has a complete line of
>>condoms.  (The only question is who pays for the free ones.)
>>
Oh! that comes out of the money which normally would have gone to
pay the teachers salaries, or from the parents tax payments, so the
parents are paying anyway, which means that the kids get less of
something else, so they lose in the longrun anyway.

>The rest of the country isn't in the dark ages as far as the availability
>of condoms is concerned.  But, have you ever seen the prices of those
>condoms in the convenience stores...over $10 a box!  They are a little
>cheaper in the stores such as K-mart and Wal-Mart.  But the other
>problem about this is what about that girl/guy who's too embarrassed to
>go out and buy them?

If you "have to have sex" what is $10 (less than a $1 per night)
compared to a life of misery. - probably a short life at that.

>Kimberly Faircloth                |x045kf@tamvm1.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: irving@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Thomas Myers)
Subject: Re: runaways
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:12:56 GMT

In <1992Apr7.184240.20707@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> denise@arabia.uucp (Denise Difilippo) writes:

>Someone suggested that the kids should have talked to the guy
>at the runaway hotline, an excellent suggestion which I just
>didn't think of at the time.  Also, I was intrigued by someone's
>suggestion of taking the children to a shelter for runaways.
>Do such places exist in most cities?  I will surely try to find
>out if there is one near me.  (Although I sincerely hope never
>to need it again!)  Do they differ significantly from the type of
>place (children's mental health center) that these kids were 
>running from?

Nearly any even moderately large city should have one.  They are way different
from a mental health center.  They are usually a house which has been
converted for boarders.  Sort of like a Bed & Breakfast would have to be. 
(But the similarities would probably end there.)  The staff are usually young
professional social workers, not so far away from the runaways, age-wise, that
they cannot be trusted.  Again Yellow Pages should have a listing, or call the
National Network.

>I do not know in detail the behaviour histories of these children,
>but what I do know convinces me that there was more involved
>than messy room type rebellion.  One child had been physically
>abusive to her family (an adult would have been jailed for assault),
>and refused to participate in family counselling, even when offered
>the right to choose or reject a particular therapist.  Another 
>was dealing with a sibling suicide.  Another shared with me details
>of achohol and drug abuse (not just moderate experimentation)
>histories.

Here, too, runaways come in all sizes shapes and forms.  The ~Mental Health
Center~ sounds scary to me, too.  There are other types of programs even fro
the kid who abuses his parents.  I grew up at one of those.  Fortunately, my
dad was the director, so Iived in our house not a dorm.  The program are
there.  It's sad when people (like maybe these kid's folks) haven't been
informed of them.


(Sorry if this is getting repetitious for y'all.  It's a pet thing for me.)

-- 
Tom Myers, Programmer/Analyst				Email: t-myers@nwu.edu
Reingold ECG Center - Northwestern University
From: lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu (Andy Lazare)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: eating disorder
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:27:13 GMT
Distribution: alt.parents-teens
Organization: North Carolina A&T State University

Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: teen with eating disorder
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: North Carolina A&T State University
Keywords: 

first, thanks to everyone who responded to my question.

the day before we were to tkae my daughter to a psychologist, she told
us she didn't want to go. at first i thought she just didn't want to see
the psychologist. but then she told us that 
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: teen with eating disorder
Organization: North Carolina A&T State University
first, thanks to everyone who responded to my post.

the day before we were to take my daughter to the psychologist, she told
us she didn't want to go. at first i thought she had a problem with
going to a psychologist. the next day she told us that she felt she was
in control of the bulimia part and just wanted to loose some weight.

not wanting to force her to go to the psychologist, we decided to enroll
her in a weight loss clinic. for now we will just keep an eye on her and
trust her if she tells us she is no longer making herself sick. with
info i have gotten from responses, at least now i know some signs of 
bulimia. 

a new question. how far should we go as far as forcing her to see a
psychologist, if it comes to that.

again, thanks to all that responded. wish us, or actually my daughter,
luck.





-- 
andy lazare                  internet  lazarea@garfield.ncat.edu
n.c. a&t state univ                    lazarea@mercury.ncat.edu
greensboro, n.c.             bitnet    lazarea@atsuvax1.bitnet
From: mmt@latour.Berkeley.EDU (Maxime Taksar)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Out-Of-Control; kid or adult....
Date: 7 Apr 1992 09:01:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mmt@Berkeley.EDU (Maxime Taksar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: latour.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr6.162953.6476@wdl.loral.com>, gjs@wdl30.wdl.loral.com (Gregory Scott) writes:
>4)  The outbursts and even violence are expressions of fear; fear of
>leaving the safety and security of home.  I know this seems strange
>and contradictory but sometimes the words:  "Leave me alone and get
                       ^^^^^^^^^
>out of my life"  are a plea for help and reassurance.  The challenge
>for parents is to give that help and reassurance without appearing
>to take control (which leads to the power struggle again).

The key word here is "sometimes".  There are other times
when "Leave me alone" means exactly that.  It did with me.

I doubt I had much fear of leaving home.  There was certainly
no problem of obtaining help and reassurance from my friends
as well as myself.

This isn't to say that this applies to everyone.  I think
that it's great advice to try and offer help and reassurance
*without* attempting to control.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Maxime Taksar             KC6ZPS            mmt@Berkeley.EDU
"GAS FOOD NEXT RIGHT" [Yum!]       "END CONSTRUCTION [Now!]"