HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjk5@po.cwru.edu (Timothy Kordas)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Neuromancer dream-cast and soundtrack
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:46:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62144.student.cwru.edu

In article <wilder.722036873@mik.uky.edu> wilder@nx03.mik.uky.edu (jeff wilder) writes:
>From: wilder@nx03.mik.uky.edu (jeff wilder)
>Subject: Re: Neuromancer dream-cast and soundtrack
>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:47:53 GMT
>In <tjk5.36.722022011@po.cwru.edu> tjk5@po.cwru.edu (Timothy Kordas) writes:
>
>|>|I believe that _Le Femme Nikita_ was produced in 1991, or at least that's
>|>|what the flyer I got when I saw it says (pinned above my desk). She doesn't
>|>|really fit my image of Molly very well....I second Jennifer Jason Leigh
>|>|(short haired one :-) ).......
>
>|>That's odd.  I wouldn't swear to it, but I was very certain that _La_
>|>Femme_Nikita_ was listed in TVGuide as early '80s when I watched it last
>|>Tuesday night.  Typo, maybe?
>
>|Your source or mine? :-) Well I've heard it said several times that 
>|just after _La Femme Nikita_ came out, that one of the big mainstream
>|producers picked up the story and was going to hollywoodize it (BAD IDEA!)
>|--that was only about a year ago...It also LOOKED pretty modern to me,
>|ie not '82 clothes....
>
>|Where/when was it playing on TV?? did they play the dubbed version (corny
>|bad actors who completely destroyed all of the tension in the movie, and 
>|actually made scenes--like the opening drug-store sequence--funny when it
>|shouldn't have been)
>
>It was on one of the premium channels...MAX, I think.  And yeah, the dubbing
>was pretty bad.  In fact, during the scene you mentioned I had to turn away 
>from my set.  Luckily I had seen that scene before, with subtitles.  I still
>had to suffer through the rest of the dubbing, though.
>
>I just dug my TVG out of the trash to check, and it lists _Nikita_ as '81.
>Must be a typo.  I see what you mean about the *look* being modern; I guess
>I just let the atrocious dubbing convince me the film was older than it is.

Yeah...imagine my surprise when I found out that the video I bought was the
dubbed version (I didn't even THINK of that possibility when I saw it in the
$6 barrel at the video store...:-(   )



-Tim Kordas
kordas@snowhite.eeap.cwru.edu
From: cstadba@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr C D Ward)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Neuromancer: Movie
Date: 21 Nov 1992 16:46:49 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk


With all of the ideas floating about as to who is to play the parts, and
who is to do the music, there is one important question.

Who is going to do the cyberspace scenes, will it be left to one of the
giants, such as industrial light and magic, or should some of the smaller
production companies be let loose. the smaller company may not have the
manpower, but they might produce a better result, perhaps being closer
to the ideas that the book is about??

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Ward                + Tries hard, fails to achieve the low standards he
cstadba@csv.warwick.ac.uk + sets himself, works well with a broom.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:49:53 -0500 
From: Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: cyberpunk at the arcades

>  the reason i posted this here in alt.cyberpunk was because i
> think this type of super-violent videogame is exactly the
> type to dominate our future (that and VR games).

Just outta curiosity, WHY do you think these ultra-violent games will
(should?) dominate our future?  (Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Mortal
Combat, and have wasted waaayyy to much money on it...)

Chris
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: pacoid@wixer.cactus.org (Paco Xander Nathan)
Subject: 1/e^2
Summary: new DIY catalog, email list
Organization: FringeWare Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 00:50:44 GMT

FringeWare Inc. has just been formed to sell street-tech
wares from low-end developers.  s/w, h/w, muchomedia,
clothing, etc.  Also has buy/sell listings for used DIY 
gear, such as PowerGloves, Pixelvision, used brain 
machines, etc.

Do U write code?  Build circuits?  Author CD-ROM's?  Wanna
sell yer wares?  Wanna find a nice stocking stuffer for 
that special cyberpunk or neophile in your life?

There's a new email list too.  Join and/or post by sending
to:
	fringeware@wixer.cactus.org

The list is moderated/digested to cut volume.  Info on
events, DIY sources, product reviews, etc., from the Fringe.

FringeWare Inc.
2507 Roehampton
Austin, TX 78745-6964
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: what to pack for cyber-travel
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:00:04 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

> Far out. What department are you in that supports thesis choices like the
> above? Or is this for an undergrad senior thesis project?

It's for my B.A. in Art.  Our senior thesis program allows all sorts of
creativity.

> What to bring: Your wits. What else is required? You can't bring physical
> objects if you are just a representation of data. Or are you assuming that you
> will have sensory perception as in the reality? In that case, are the "physical
> objects" you bring just there as interface tools, i.e. like icons which you
> would use to execute commands? 
> A camera would be nice - gottat have something for that scapbook!
> C-ya
> FcR

I'm trying to explore this idea in the sense of ACTUALLY being inside the
machine.  You could bring a pack (packet-data?) of stuff.  Like "Neuromancer"
your bible, food, or whatever.
I figured that a virus construction kit could be a good start..sort of like
protection incase something happens while you are on your journey.  A map
of cyberspace would also be important. (I'm going to create a map for my
thesis)  It's sorta like "I want to go across the country, what should I bring"
but is "I want to go across the country in cyberspace, what should I bring"


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kirk Membry                              Marriage is for Life, Death is Forever
kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                            kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Frank)
Subject: Re: Feminist CyberPunk
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:49:08 GMT

In article <1e0nbtINNdpm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> lxh16@po.CWRU.Edu (Lila Hanft) writes:
>
>I'm really really new to this genre -- I just finished my first dizzy-ing
>euphoric reading of Neuromancer, and I'm breathless to read more.
>
>But I'm teaching a course on Feminism and Popular Culture next semester in
>which I want to teach some feminist cyberpunk fiction -- any suggestions?
>-- 
>Lila Hanft                                     lxh16@po.cwru.edu
>Assistant Professor of English
>Case Western Reserve University                   (216)-386-2372
>Cleveland, OH 44106-7117                lxh16%po.cwru.edu@cunyvm

People have already mentioned Pat Cadigan. I enjoyed "Patterns" the most.

	liked the story in patterns with the tv, the president.

Pat Murphy.
	short stories - Points of Departure
	
		the story with the oaks and the battered wife.

	The falling woman
	The city, not long after

		the blue butterflies and the golden gate bridge.
		the golden flowers.
		everything.
		the art.
		fighting off evil.

Connie Willis (i think)
	Lincolns dreams
	and some other story.

what a short list. me?

throw in ursula k leguin. but she is well known so I guess I don't have to.
I like to think of her as hard soft-scifi. meaning, hard science fiction
about soft science. (it's more of a wish than a reality. I wish there
were more hard soft-scifi. It's what I'm interested in. suggestions?)



-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
From: jts2363@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: boing-boing
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:00:36 GMT
Reply-To: jts2363@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Anyone seen the most recent issue of boing-boing? Specifically, the parody of
Mondo?  It's a well deserved jibe at Mondo's pretentiousness.  Don't get me
wrong, I think Mondo's a great mag, but it can get annoying at times, which is
what I think the mondo-mondo parody was aimed at.  Interesting to note Gareth
Branwyn is both the Street Tech editor at Mondo, and the new "Senior Editor" at
boing-boing.  Wonder if he's catching any flak from the Mondoids?
From: verge@cyberden.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: A CYBERPUNK BIBLIOGRAPHY
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:10:14 PST
Organization: Indescribable Creations

A CYBERPUNK BIBLIOGRAPHY

FLICKS: Max Headroom, Blade Runner, Mad Max (I,II&III), Runaway, 
Circuitry Man, Hardware, Split Second, Till The End of the World, The 
Quatermass Conclusion, The Iron Man, The Falls, Aeon Flux, Aliens, 
Scanners, Home of the Brave, Le Femme Nikita, Robocop (I&II), Liquid Sky, 
Cafe Flesh, Terminator (I&II), Brazil, 1984, Last Days of Man on Earth, 
Priviledge, Repo Man, MORE--

BOOKS: City Comes A'Walking/Wetbones (Shirley), Subterranean 
Gallery/Destroying Angel (Russo), Islands In The 
Net/Schismatrix/Mirrorshades/Artificial Kid (Sterling), Life During 
Wartime (Shepard), Dr.Adder/Glass Hammer/Farewell Horizontal (Jeter), The 
High Orbit/Vickers/The Feelies/Mars-The Red Planet (Farren), City of 
Angels (Bear), Neuromancer/Count Zero/Mona Lisa Overdrive/Burning Chrome 
(Gibson), Bone Dance (Bull), Modern Primitives/Industrial Culture 
Handbook (REsearch), Doc and Fluff (Califia), Bad Voltage (Littell), 
Little Heros (Spinrad), Seimotext(e) SF, Scanner Darkly (Dick), Golem 
100/Stars My Destination/The Computer Connection (Bester), Cybernetic 
Samurai (Milan), Dreams of Flesh and Sand (Quick), Metrophage (Kadrey), 
Snow Crash (Stephenson), The Naked Lunch (Burroughs), Vacuum Flowers 
(Swanwick), Hardwired/Voice of the Whirlwind (Williams), When Gravity 
Fails/Fire In The Sun/Exile Kiss (Effinger), On My Way To Paradise 
(Wolverton), Synners/Fools (Cadigan), MORE--

ANIME: Bubblegum Crisis, Akira, Metal Skin Panic, Venus Wars, Megazone 
23, Black Magic M-66, Apple Seed, VOTOMS, Patlabor, MORE--

COMIX: Wetworks, Cyberforce, Lazarus Churchyard, Those Annoying Post 
Brothers, RAW, The Hacker Files, Spider-Man 2099, American Flagg, 
Shatter, Trashman, RAW, MORE--

ZINES: MONDO 2000, Future Sex, Frighten the Horses, Issac Asimov's SF 
Mag., FAD, Metropolis, bOING-bOING, Adbusters, The Face, Bandai Brain 
Bank, Zoom, 2600, Whole Earth Review, MORE--

FOLKS: Mark Pauline, Lily Braindrop, Carol Queen, Pat Califia, Tim Leary, 
Stan Ridgeway, Rudy Rucker, John Shirley, Madonna, Frank Geary, Bruce 
Sterling, Brian Eno, Mark Motherbaugh, Lauri Anderson, Ismau Naguchi, Syd 
Mead, Colani, W.S.Burroughs, Helmut Newton, R.U. Sirius, MORE--

THINGS: Laptops, Mercedes Hammer, Masserati Quada Porta, Honda Hurricane, 
ribbed Italian plastic, vibrators, latex, Riva scooters, piercings, 
ultralights, futons, Optical drives, Army survival manuals, Lear 
"Pusher-Prop", amphetamines, X, condoms, acid, "Beyond Cyberpunk" Stack, 
cellular phones, alpha-numeric pagers, MORE--


__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N            [ verge@cyberden.uucp ]
From: morpheus@entropy.mcds.com (morpheus)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: A CYBERPUNK BIBLIOGRAPHY
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:06:18 EST
Organization: the pickle factory at Langley, Virginia

verge@cyberden.uucp writes:

> A CYBERPUNK BIBLIOGRAPHY
>
> FLICKS: Max Headroom, Blade Runner, Mad Max (I,II&III), Runaway,
> Circuitry Man, Hardware, Split Second, Till The End of the World, The
> Quatermass Conclusion, The Iron Man, The Falls, Aeon Flux, Aliens, 
> Scanners, Home of the Brave, Le Femme Nikita, Robocop (I&II), Liquid Sky, 
> Cafe Flesh, Terminator (I&II), Brazil, 1984, Last Days of Man on Earth, 
> Priviledge, Repo Man, MORE--

Repo Man?  Cyberpunk?  Huh?


--
morpheus@entropy.mcds.com --
Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?   -qr
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.sex,alt.industrial,alt.sex.stories.d
From: hartlemp@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Michael P Hartley)
Subject: Re: ROBO-COPULATION
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:23:46 GMT

In article <miaauB1w165w@entropy.mcds.com> morpheus@entropy.mcds.com (morpheus) writes:
>pochanay@cae.wisc.edu (Adisak Pochanayon) writes:
>
>>      Those who believe they are the righteous are the ones going to hell.  Th
>> sinner who knows his soul is black who turns to God in humility and mercy sha
>> ascend to Jesus' throne.
>And Elvis lives in my basement.

   The King is dead.   Let him go.   

At least, that's what my buddies Jimmy Hoffa and Bruce Lee say...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       "I don't know what's in there, but it's big, and it's PISSED OFF!"  
---------------------------------------|---------------------------------------
   Michael P Hartley                 #           |  Physicist by Choice 
                      ****           |           |  Mathematician by Accident
   Purdue University (====()---------\---------| |  CS student by Mistake
                      ****           |           |  Brilliant by act of God
   hartlemp@mentor.cc.purdue.edu     -           |  Poor by act of Congress
From: morpheus@entropy.mcds.com (morpheus)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Sex & Violence (was cyberpunk at the arcades)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 12:02:57 EST
Organization: the pickle factory at Langley, Virginia

Scott Gregory <wg2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>     Personally, I'd prefer to live somewhere that encouraged us all to
> get laid than to rip each other's heads off.  Call me crazy...

Yeah, but sex is immoral...

(huh?)


--
morpheus@entropy.mcds.com --
Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?   -qr
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: mpuf6@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Mark Constable)
Subject: Re: Neuromancer the Music and Movie
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:11:52 GMT

From article <1ebsrfINNf12@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk>, by cstadba@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr C D Ward):
> 
> In article <gf2GJbS00aw3IC_G1n@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Curtis E. Bower" <cb4m+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> |> I agree that Industrial is the way to go.  
> |> >FLA, definatly.  But NIN?... nah.  Too.. soft.  Gotta have that
> |> >nails-on-blackboard bangbangbangbang sound.
> |> NIN to soft?  have you heard broken?  
> |> >Maybe just have some guy bang some electronic equiptment together violently.
> |> >Smash a keyboard into an empty chassis for that echo effect... yeah.
> |> Hey, that would be pretty neat.  Real industrial, or maybe just do dome
> |> sampling at a steel plant and throw in some screaming or sumpthin.  
> 
> This may be going against the feel of the film, but how about some of Queens
> older stuff.  "Machines' World (Back to humans)" seem particulary appropriate, and
> there is another one called something like "Hammer to fall" which has a really
> good beat to it.  Maybe the first for the part where Case is with the Turing
> people and the second for the arcade?
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Ward                + Tries hard, fails to achieve the low standards he
> cstadba@csv.warwick.ac.uk + sets himself, works well with a broom.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More Queen?  Do we need this in an already overkilled pre Xmas
Freddie-melee?  We at the FBC think not.  Perhaps a more obscure band
could do the honors?  Any suggestions?  Early Sisters?  Post-Punk?
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Danny-Boy)
Subject: metaphor was Re: Singularity (Gordon's idea)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:18:53 GMT



damn long discussion deleted. perked up when I saw M*t*ph*R!

In article <1eoua8INNr2n@agate.berkeley.edu> lizi@soda.berkeley.edu (Cosma Shalizi) writes:
>*: (A long note on metaphors.)


Talk on being true and false at the same time deleted. contradiction
being one of my favorites...but...not what perks me.

Mostly intriqued by metaphor implied in thinking process.
in word choices.

to use examples given by Johnson and Lakoff in some book I'm reading,
common metaphors implied in speech:

ARGUMENT IS WAR

J&L then list many examples of sentences talking about arguments.
win defend target, etc etc, words connected to war paradigm used for
argument idea. (then have a fun time explaining how a different culture
could sprout (another metaphor:) a way of thinking whereby argument
was dance. how cool....it wouldn't be 'argument' to us then. have to get
a different word.)

TIME IS MONEY

I do not know how to explain what I find objectionable about making
anything an economy. time or art.
a grave conceptual evil.

why can't humans pick different paradigms to fixate on?

It feels like the human race fixates on the paradigm implied in 'resources'
or 'economy' and in this choice is part of evil.

I want to pick my own assumptions, not have everything planned out by talk.
-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
From: pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick C Leger)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: cyberpunk at the arcades
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:13:08 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.alt.cyberpunk: 17-Nov-92 Re: cyberpunk at the
arcades by Jason D Corley @helium.g 
> It's the trend.  Look at television and movies.  They are steadily
> heading towards more and more violence (sex, too, I predict pornographic
> video games within 5 years), and that violence is spilling over
> into the other realms of mass media.  Video games have always
> been cartoonish, it's only recently though that they have gotten
> a coating of reality (the blood 'n guts) over that cartoonishness
> (the repeated violence and surrealism).
>         Jason
>         The Mad Mad Mad Mad Solipsistic Mad World

Hmm...Maybe I should rephrase my question.  Do you think this sort of
game SHOULD be the "game of the future"?  The first time I saw it, I
thought it was shameless.  I still do.  (Lotta fun, tho.)  I think it's
sad that a game has to be like that to be popular, though (like Street
Fighter 2, Smash TV, and the scores of generic
walk-around-and-punch-people games).  Yeah, these games probably will
dominate the aracdes of the future (or at least, the ones they don't
already dominate), but I think it's a pathetic commentary on society
that this is the case.  

Come to think of it, I feel the same way about sex on TV and movies...They
throw in a love scene with lots of clips of portions of poorly-lit naked
bodies, a few silouhettes of kissing, a couple of breasts, and some
cheesy slow music, and it doesn't add a thing to the show or movie.  

I'm sure all this sounds ultra-conservative.  I don't have any problems
at all with any kind of consenting sex (or violene :) ), but it's
sickening how the two are thrown all over the place without meaning.

Chris

--------------
Disclaimer:  If anything I have said has offended you, I promise not to
infringe on your right to just look away from the screen and ignore what
I'm saying.
From: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industria
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 

KH> In a previous article, aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Steven J.) says:
>mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) writes:
>: DS> Another factor that is really more prevalent in private BBS's than USENE
>:   > that a lot of men consider women-in-cyberspace as nothing more than pote
>:   > chewtoys.
>: WHAT?  Please expound...
>: I belong to one of the larger BBS's in the country, and I get all the main>:
>: for instance).  I have yet to see any evidence that indicates that any male 
>: this or any of the 15 or so other boards I regularly call are looking for a
>: rawhide bone.  This statement in itself is terribly sexist.
KH>     Actually, that statement in itself is terribly accurate. If you
  >     were going to harass a woman for kicks, would you do it openly
  >     where any shining knight wanna be can rip you apart? No.
>: I'm afraid I'm gonna need some clarification on that point.
>
>I think what is being addressed here is what does indeed happen on
>multi-line BBS's of a chat-system nature.  There are two such systems here
>in Milwaukee and, yes, women who call in are subjected to a certain amount
>of harrassment by the male users who are very much the majority. 
KH>     That's happened out here in Cleveland as well - although most 
This is amazing!  Am I so blind that I never get to see any of this shit?
But the point is that the original statement made reference to a _lot_
of men, and I've still seen no statistics.  Waiting.....
KH>     Annoying as hell, IMO. The system I'm on, the Cleveland FreeNet,
  >     is in the habit of yanking accounts from people who do it, so
  >     that tends to keep things 'friendly'.
Seems like the reasonable thing to do, initially.  Followed closely by
drawing and quartering.

Mykel


 -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: I'm afraid of dying, without knowing why I lived
                                                                                               
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:27:39 -0500 
From: Scott Gregory <wg2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Perhaps we have forgotten the teachings of Jesus

Excerpts from netnews.alt.cyberpunk: 20-Nov-92 Re: Perhaps we have
forgott.. by BurrJ@drutx.ATT.COM 
> In article <1992Nov19.041140.3878@serveme.chi.il.us>,
joeg@gagme.chi.il.us (jo
> e grosch) writes:
> > David Pratt (david@shakala.com) wrote:
> > : Praise the Lord and pass the Ammunition!
> > Pass the Lord and praise the Ammunition!
> > 
>  
> This bible pushing is really outta line... I was forced to go to church for
> fourteen years by my mum, and I left there for the same reason you
should find
>  
> a group centered around thes SOME OF US DONT WANT TO HEAR IT. how bout i come
> over and yell at your window at two oclock the bonuses of fertalizing with 
> manure over chemicals... you wouldnt like it or be interested in it... so 
> TAKE A HINT if anything in cyberpunk at least preach scientology- that is
> in the rough direction even if it has the same problem- centering the answer
> to all unexplainables under the old guy upstairs in a nightshirt wants
it that
>  
> way and there by not answering any questions
>  
>  
> THE PUDDLEJUMPER

    Humorless bastard of the week award goes to...the envelope
please...The Puddlejumper!, for his outstanding performance at ranting
antidogma in response to a centuries old joke and a slight twist upon
it.  Congratulations!