HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Thursday, 31 December 1992 00:21:37 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Conversations with a Rabbi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

(I just KNOW I'm going to regret getting involved in this
 <grossly misposted> thread.  Don't you just hate it when you do that?)

In <6628@pdxgate.UUCP>, a0cb@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf)  wrote:
# 
# saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
# >                                                  Why can't those who ahve
# >read and refuted their trash summarize for others?  Why can't that
# >summary be passed by those who haven't read it to others who haven't so as
# >to save more poeple the trouble?
# 
# Who are you saving trouble?  What makes you think your evaluation of the
# material is at all correct or open-minded enough (or close-minded
# enough) for all of the other intellects that read and post here
# regularly?

  We'd all appreciate it if you took your own advice and spent the
  next few decades doing some serious firsthand research into
  Atheism, Buddhism, Islam, ..., Wicca, Voodoun, Zen, ...

  What?  Life's too short, you say?  You already know you've got
  the One and Only True Faith (tm)?  How closed-minded.

# You don't have to read the 'propaganda' multiple times, once will do.
# However, don't make the statement that it is the same propaganda
# every time, unless you know that to be fact (which you wouldn't
# unless you investigated the material).  Is this getting clearer
# now?

  Humans are funny.  We jump to the darndest conclusions by
  induction.  (It's been fun watching my kids discover things
  like "Hey! this hot thing BURNED me!  The last one did, too.
  Do you think that maybe...?")  Some of us, for instance, have
  found that after the first few times we got burned by hot
  objects we become quite uninterested in finding out if the
  NEXT one will, too.  Or are you open-minded enough to give
  the next coal you see a try, just to be sure?

  In case this is too abstract to register, we have found that
  some people (Sam Saal, for instance, or the RAMBAM) have
  proven to be much more reliable than the J4Js.  Rapid
  risk/benefit calculations consign your pitch to the same
  destination as the rest of the scam mail.

  BTW, we're not all so dense that we fail to notice that
  this "try us, don't listen to the Jews!" pitch is targeted
  towards the most ignorant among us, who won't recognize
  the lies and BS on their own.

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shelomoh  slawomir  ZIENIUK <sHELOMOH@PLEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      CHANUKKAH GREETINGS FROM WARSAW
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <shelomoh  slawomir  ZIENIUK <sHELOMOH@PLEARN.BITNET>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:49:03 GMT

Shalom uVrakha v'Chag Chanuka Sameach aleKhem -- U All of the O'CONNORR Clan:
Orthodox*COnservative*Nominal*NOnaffiliated*Reform*Reconstructionalist||

Yesterday on the 1st Chanukkah night we had an opening of the Youth Centre
at the Nozyks (Ortho) Synagogue in Warsaw, poland. The event was preceded
with the lighting of candles at the Warsaw Ghetto Monument. 2 Rabbis present
have contributed much to the festival: R' Dr EINHORN (at present the only
Rav of Taiwan) & R' Michael J. SCHUDRICH (the spiritual leader of us Jewish
Youth of poland, & the former R' of Tokyo & Japan at that time).

U may believe this or not but:
wE THE YOUNG JEWS OF POLAND R NOT GONE|           Nes*Gadol*Haya*Sham
anakhnu Yehudey polanya Chayim|                 v'Nes*Gadol*Hove*Po(b'polin)|
Have U already learnt it? Any comments (negative'n'positive) frankly welcome|

Peacefully Thine Humbly,
--sh     SHELOM|oh*of*WARsaw*in*poLAND (Tehillim QK:Z) <shelomOH@pLEARN.bITnet>
(secretary of DEGEL_HATORAH Jewish Circle of Arts & Sciences, Univ. of Warsaw).

Snailmail Welcome Too-to: (shelomoh) slawomir ZIENIUK, student,
                          c/o Dept. of Hebrew (Hebraistyka),
                          Oriental Institute,
                          University of Warsaw (U.W.),
                          ul. Krakowskie Przedmiescie 26/28,
                          PL-00-927 WARSZAWA/WARSAW,
                          poland (Am Yisrael Chai Po Achshav|), Eastern Europe.
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cholov Yisrael
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:08:54 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <3088@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>What does this supervision ensure?  Since the only ingredient in the
>carton is milk, what is there to check other than the milk, and if the
>milk is supervised, how is it not chalav yisrael?  I could understand
>if it was chocolate milk and they checked the chocolate because milk
>doesn't need supervision.

Although I should probably stay out of this one, what the heck...

Some Jews are concerned about the possibility that the milk may
not exclusively come from cows. In particular, in Europe, some
(non-Jewish) communities used pigs' milk (obviously, there's
no problem in Judaism with goat or sheep's milk). A friend of
mine who was raised in Young Israel, but who eventually became
a rabbi in the Chabad movement lived in northern California
for a while. Although he was not a mashgiah, he took the time
to go to a local dairy and satisfy himself that cows were
exclusively used for milk production. That dairy then became
the sole supplier of milk for his community.

Among many not-so-Orthodox Jews, the USDA's "hekhsher" is 
enough, since that gov't agency requires that cows' milk
be the only ingredient in a product labelled "milk." In 
addition, I have heard it argued that pig, goat, and sheeps'
milk is considerably more expensive in this country than
cows' milk, so they would be very unlikely to be adulterative
ingredients.

Additional disclaimer: I do not consider myself an expert
in kashruth, please leave flame-throwers outside the door. :-)

-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ratner@cs.columbia.edu (Michael Ratner)
Subject: Re: (Jewish) Kabbalistic Meditation ?
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 05:14:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.010757.27479@imagen.com> avi@eagle.imagen.com (avi zelmanov) writes:
>
>Over the past 5-10 years, I've seen references and mentions of Jewish
>Kabbalistic Meditation. I never studied the "Zohar" or other texts
>thoroughly, and most of what I know about "Kabbalah" is indirectly 
>through Chassidut, but I don't recall ANY meditation per se
>(unless you consider "Tefila Bedvekut" a meditation ...)
>
>Meditation, as used in the secular or religious (but NON-Jewish) form,
>is basically a repetition of a special ("Holy") word, used as a means to 
>go beyond the normal state of consciousness.

That is only one of the many ways to meditate (or to concentrate, rather):
adopted (non-Jewish) term for the word or sound that you repeat is "mantra".
 
>On a (very) superficial level, the "concept" might look foreign to
>Judaism, but often "Practical" Kabbalah employs "unconventional techniques"
>(Kmeyot, for one) that would look just as foreign, so I decided to ask.
>
>1) Is there a Kabblistic Meditation ?
>2) Is it ANYTHING like what's described above ? (recitation of a word either
>   verbal or mental). I wouldn't think "Shem Hameforash" would be a candidate,
>   (because of "Lo Tissa") but again I've heard angel names usage mentioned ...
>3) If the answer to #2 is NO, what is the technique(s) employed ?
>4) What kabbalistic texts are used as SOURCES for this "meditation" ?
>5) Is it a technique taught to anybody (any jew) or a secret ? Are there     
>   pre-requesites such as certain age? certain expertise in "Shas and Poskim" ?
>   etc. 
>6) Who teaches that ? Is there a Rabbi/Yeshiva (in the U.S. , Israel, or even
>   elsewhere) that can better answer these questions ?
>7) Are there any text books on this subject, that one can direct me to ?
>   (English or Hebrew)

There is a book written by Rabbi Arye Kaplan called "Jewish Meditation."  
It basically has the answers to the questions that you have listed above.
-- 
******************************************************************************
			|  Michael B. Ratner  |
			|_____________________|

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: American Jews and Lubavitch
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-5457]: bourbon
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 18:14:21 GMT

In article <3129@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>I have a feeling that the logic of Lubavich in promoting prayer in
>public school is based on a feeling that if a Jew sees prayer, his or
>her "Jewish soul" will be likely to awaken, sending the person in
>search of a Jewish way to express spirituality.  I haven't heard any
>clear statement on this, and I could be wrong, but this is a feeling
>that I get from other things that I've heard them, and other Chassidim
>say.
>
>I don't agree with this position myself, but this is how I understand
>what might be their motivation.
>
>Since postings are often misunderstood, I'd better point out that this
>is *not* a criticism of Lubavich, even though I don't agree with them
>about this.  This is an attempt to understand them, and if I've gotten
>them wrong, I'd be delighted to be corrected.
>-- 

First, thanks for the civil tone of the post (a shame that has to be
said), but of course, I'd expect that from you.

A factual correction: Lubavitch supports _a moment of silence_, NOT
public prayer. There's a big difference. And while your logic about
the response of the Jewish soul is essentially correct, the moment of
silence as a time for everyone to acknowledge the limitations of human
reasoning and recognize the Creator, each in his/her own way, and thus
place in perspective what is learned (knowledge without morality being
at best potentially evil), is part of the obligations of the Sheva
Mitzvot. The idea, thus, is that even non-Jews should acknowledge G-d
(one of the Sheva Mitzvot), but privately and in their own way.
There's a longer discussion of it, but it is not a call for public
prayer in any way.

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Late 4 Dec Mincha
Date: 24 Dec 92 13:43:33 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)

In article <9212232035.AA24082@cyclone.sbi.com>, gertler@cyclone (Don Gertler) writes:
>Well, since it is now Shabbat, you are obligated to say ma`ariv.

That's simply false.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: Talmud on determining sex
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 05:34:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.195634.978@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>My orthodox Grandfather (O"H) told my father who told me that according
>to the Talmud if the woman has an orgasm first the child will be
>a boy.

How do you explain boy-girl twins? ;-)


--Mark
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: XMAS
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:14:44 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

In article <1992Dec16.214033.13587@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David) writes:

>earlier religion would be lost. Ever wonder why Joshua X. is alway depicted
>with a halo around his head? It represents the Sun. He is the Sun god portrayed
>in human form!

I always thought it is in place of the kipa,
maybe even kipa sruga with big holes in it

Simon Streltsov,
Boston University

"If you go on the road and come to a fork -
Take it!"

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:24:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.192229.2857@starbase.trincoll.edu>
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:

>You are.  Vulgar as I see it has little or nothing to do with esthetics.
>Nor does it have anything to do with my joyous/non-joyous response.
>The second option contains a partial kernel of what I meant.  But: at
>issue is not what _others_ think or understand, but a failure on the
>part of the actors themselves to understand what they're about.

>Vulgarity is a case of cultural misappropriation.  There's a large ad
>by Bloomingdale's in today's NYT with the slogan: "Grunge is good".  You
>can imagine the rest.  I mention this to stress that vulgarity, despite
>its etymological meanings, works in either direction.  It's not just
>when Jews ape higher-status people whose approval or acceptance they
>seek, but the other way around.  The decline of the bagel may be a
>case in point.

>I used the word "ape" deliberately.  Why not "emulate"?  Because aping,
>we think, involves a mindless imitation of certain patterns without
>understanding the role they play.

I suspect you misunderstand Chabad's intention and motivation.  If your
concept of vulgarity is based on "aping," you miss the most important
point in Chabad's public displays of the Menorot/Chanukiot.  If "aping"
was the only point, don't you think they'd be interested in putting up
Jewish symbols to counter the pink and green of easter, the browns and
reds of Thanksgiving, the witches and ghosts of Halloween?  No; they
are only interested in Chanukah and Menorot.  Why is that?  I'd say it
is because the motivation is _not_ that of equality with other holiday
symbols and symbolism.  Instead, it is part of Chanukah in its own rite
(and right).  One of the mitzvot of Chanukah is that of "Pirsumei
Nissah" (publicizing the miracle), and to that end, large Chanukiot are
as good a way as any to publicize it.  There's nothing to ape.
Pirsumei nissah has nothing to do with a particular society or strata
therein.  It stands on its own and denigrating that as "aping"  shows a
lack of comprehension for an important part of the celebration of
Chanukah, let alone a lack of respect for those who do understand this
mitzvah.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:31:42 GMT


If I'm not misinformed, it would seem Brian Foont's assertion that
Chrismas Trees are a religious symbol is unfounded. I believe it
dates to pre-Christian times and is associated with the winter solstice.
It's probably pagan.

That it's non-Jewish seems incontrovertible, but so is Halloween. If
Brian wants to get excited, let him find a few crosses in public
places.

:-)

David
From: ptyaxel@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Seymour Axelrod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: New Square
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:59:00 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Can anyone provide information on a Hasidic (or other ultra-O) community, just
north of New York City, named New Square?  I think I recall reading about the 
town (or village) about a year ago.  It may have been involved in some legal 
controversy at the time.  I also think I read that its name has nothing to do 
with shape, but rather with the name of the Polish (?) town where the 
group's founder came from--something like Skver, I suppose.

sa

Seymour Axelrod, Psychiatry, State University of New York at Buffalo
PTYAXEL@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24479 soc.culture.arabic:6191 talk.politics.mideast:24607
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:56:54 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec30.162904.7304@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>
>Belonging to Hamas is enough.  Would you refuse to condemn an American who
>is a member of the KKK, but claims that he "doesn't agree with everything
>they stand for"?  And Hamas is worse than the KKK, if possible; the KKK
>doesn't (openly) advocate killing every Jew and black in America.

By continuing this equation theory only spells out the same thing that
you accuse innocent people of.  Perhaps you can prove that Hamas actually
promotes or advocates the murders of Jews and blacks in America or the
rest of the world.  And perhaps you are not very familiar with the KKK to
know about their network with their bretheren in Germany, who openly
kill Jews, blacks, Iranians, and Arabs.

Anisa
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:40:22 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

> The deportations will simply fuel further violence.  I can tell  you  my
> reaction  to the deportations - I wanted to go out and punch the nearest
> Israeli.  And I am a Jew.  What effect do you think it will have on  the
> Palestinians?
> 
> Israel has to be told that the deportations are absolutely unacceptable,
> and must be reversed.
-----
I believe, quite simply, that the only effective policy Israel can 
maintain toward terrorists is, when hit, hit back harder, stronger, 
faster, more deadly, and so fearsomely that he who hit you will never 
want to do so again.  Time and time again, when Israel implements this 
policy, Jews from around the world frustrate the process by obstructing 
Israel's attempts to maintain security.

Now, since we often find ourselves in the unenviable position of 
defending Israel to our friends and colleagues, community and 
legislators, I don't suggest that any Jew does not have the right to 
criticize Israel for her actions.  But I DO believe that Jews who 
frustrate Israel's attempts to maintain a secure environment have done as 
much harm to Israel as any group can.  And since this is the free 
marketplace of ideas (after all, this isn't Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia 
or any of the other Arab countries in which free speech is a humerous 
concept) I emphatically state that I believe you are wrong for doing so.

Todd
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kasdan@cs.columbia.edu (John Kasdan)
Subject: Kosher question
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 17:23:47 GMT

Are the Kosher laws cumulative?  For example, if I eat a ham and
cheese sandwich am I violating BOTH the law against eating ham AND the
law against eating meat with milk, or does the fact that pork is treif
mean that it doesn't count as meat for the purpose of the prohibition
of meat with milk?

If, in fact, there is a violation of both laws, what is the effect of
that?  Is the appropriate punishment greater for the double violation
than for the single one?

Thanks for any info on this.

/JK
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue MUSIC
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:14:52 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)

In article <1992Dec21.190540.20416@starbase.trincoll.edu>, nmiller@starbase (norman miller) writes:
>[incorrect USENET reference omitted]

>>I think the piyut is "Lcahi Olamim."  I believe the Lubavitch
>>began using this tune to honor Napoleon, who, as he was sweeping
>>through Europe, he was "good" toward the Jews.

>A big maven I'm not, but I think you'll find that Lubavitch was
>strongly _opposed_ to Napoleon.

You are correct.  The Lubavitch view--ignoring any Russian nationalism--
was that Napoleon's liberation was the first step in an assimilation
campaign.  French Chabadniks at some point noticed the tune fit, and
didn't particularly care about Chabad's opinion of the origin of the
tune.  Note that Lubavitch says Lchai ho-Olamim every Shabbos, not just
once a year, but not quite like the Sephardi custom, which is to say it
every Shabbos in a whisper--some siddurim don't even point the text!--
because it's the song of the angels.  On Yom Kippur, all say it loudly.

Ignoring the origin of a tune is not so unusual.  "Nyet nyet nikogo"
(ksav, nikovo kri) was a Russian army song, but they like the tune
anyway.  On the other hand, Lubavitch hates "Hava Nagila", since it
was one of their niggunim that was `hijacked' for the tune.

On the third hand, I don't think anyone is going to sing L'cha Dodi
to the tune of "Deck the Halls" this Shabbos.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:24:25 EST
From: <PROMISLO@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: oops..Talmud on determining sex

sorry folks.  Accidentally sent an unfinished message.  Anyway,
as I was saying, I'd be interested in any further Rabbinic
commentary on the subject.

Thanks,
Daniel Promislow
Queen's University, Canada
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24111 soc.culture.arabic:5998
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:45:36 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

Pls tell me if I'm wrong. 
I think that regardless to been a left/right winger,
all religious Israelis/jews knew that ERETZ YISRAEL 
is the homeland of jews and no other nation. The only
thing they might disagree about is wheather is worth 
trading parts of it for peace.

-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*- 
/ Hillel P. Applebaum     |> ISRAEL - where all		Better    the   Golan 
/ Jerusalem,   Israel     |  jews should live !		then peace without it.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
From: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jewish Joke of the Day
Date: 21 Dec 1992 14:07:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Reply-To: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu



I got the following out of Rabbi Joseph telushkin's Book on
Jewish Humor...

	Found on a sign above a Urinal at Hebrew University in
	Jerusalem....
		THE FUTURE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE IS IN YOUR HANDS.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date: 27 Dec 92 05:38:39 GMT

In <1hj6bfINN7tb@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>to be a member of Hamas.  

>How is it possible to convict 418 people in less than hour?  They must have


Well, the members of Hamas "convicted" some Jews in about 1 second
(the amount of time it takes to pull the trigger of a gun or
stab with a knife)

--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish