HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: How to bid this one?
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:39:58 GMT

eerke@cs.kun.nl (Eerke Boiten) writes:

>In article <karel.713612854@galaxy> karel@ph.tn.tudelft.nl (Karel Strasters) writes:
>>AT9 AKJ92 - AKQ75
>>How to open this one?

>What's your strongest opener? Ours is 2C. Except for 5D, I am willing to play
>game of partner's choice (I'll show my suits, if he bids spades (twice)
>we'll play 4S, diamonds twice (can he?) it's 3NT) opposite *any* minimal hand.

Uh oh...

It's the dreaded "Don't open the 2-suiter with a 2C bid" thread again.

This hand (like most 2-suiters) is not appropriate for opening 2C.  It's
much easier to get your point(s) across by opening 1H and rebidding 3C.

What's that you say?  Partner might have Qxx of hearts and Jx of clubs.  
Yes, and pigs might fly, too.  If it gets passed out in 1H, consider 
yourself fortunate.

My (not well thought out) auction:

1H - 1N;
3C - 4C;
6C.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Subject: Appeals Committee ruling
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:06:20 GMT


Okay folks.  This is a problem from the Hunt Valley regional.  You have
just played the day in the Flighted Open Pairs and have been asked to
sit in on an appeals committee panel.  This is the hand:

          S: -
          H: KQJT6
          D: T82                      Board 11
          C: Q9432                    None Vul
                                      Dealer South
S: 85                S: T9642
H: 8                 H: 742           South  West   North  East
D: AKQJ9764          D: 3             ----------------------------
C: 87                C: AJT6          1S     3S     P      3NT
                                      X      4D     X      P
          S: AKQJ73                   P      P
          H: A953
          D: 5
          C: K5

The auction started as shown above.  After the 3NT call, the South player
asked what the 3S bid meant.  East stated that they didn't play too often
and that he assumed that it meant bid NT with a spade stopper and probably
held a long running minor.  He bid 3NT.  South was looking at 5 sure tricks
and decided to make a penalty double.  West ran.

After the hand was played out (4D-X, off 1).  West had thought that his
bid was just a gambling 3NT type hand with a running minor and not just
requesting a spade stopper.  North-South thought that West's run to 4D was
based off an inference taken from the answer given about the 3S bid.  The
director was called to the table.

The director listened to the auction and asked some questions.  She asked
what West had meant and he said a long running minor.  He also stated that
when he had bid it he thought it was a stupid bid and had intended to bid
4D at his next opportunity if possible.  North-South felt that if East-West
had the agreement that 3S was a long running minor only, that West would
have no reason to pull the double, since he should trust East to have all
other three suits stopped.

The director agreed with North-South and rolled the contract back to 3NT-X
down 5 (5 hearts and 4 spades off the top) for +1100.  East-West protested
that this was a totally impossible result and appealed.

What do you think?  If you have any questions, let me know.  In a few days,
I'll post what the actual committee did and which side I was on (or can you
guess).

	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Myerson)
Subject: Re: Another missed slam
Organization: Raytheon Company, Portsmouth, RI
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:53:05 GMT

In article <102440018@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com> Mark Laventhal writes:

* Here's another example of missing a good slam:
* 
* 	W(dealer)		E
* 
* 	AK			QJT9x
* 	QJxx			
* 	Qx			AKJxx
* 	KJxxx			Axx
* 
* The bidding:
* 	W	N	E	S
* 	1C	2H	2S	P
* 	3N	P	P	P
* 
* Slam should be bid in one of the three suits, but which one, 
* and how do you get there?
* 
* Who should have bid differently? (both?)

East should have bid 4D over 3N.

* Should East have bid 3H instead of 2S?

No. The cue bid either asks for a heart stopper,
or is a cue agreeing clubs. Since West could have
only 3 clubs for the 1C bid, East can't insist on
clubs with only 3. And with two 5-card suits and
a VOID in the opponents suit, East should not
be thinking of playing in no-trump.

* What kind of auction would you envision after 1C-2H-??

2S by East and 3N by West are ok. But East should never pass 3N.

Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com)
From: ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: A Matchpoint Decision
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:10:58 GMT
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center

taylor@foraker.tivoli.com (Eric Taylor) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.145534.28787@rayssd.ssd.ray.com>, sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Myerson) writes:
>|> Matchpoints. None Vulnerable.
>|>   Dummy:  Tx, Kx,  Kxx, KJxxxx
>|>   You:    xx, Axx, QJx, AQxxx
>|> 
>|> You, as dealer, opened 1N (13-16). 
>|> LHO passed and partner invited with 2N.
>|> RHO, you, and LHO all passed.
>|> 
>|> The opening lead is a small heart.
>|> You win in dummy and lead a club towards your hand.
>|> Your RHO shows out, discarding an extremely encouraging spade.
>|> 
>|> The question: Should you cash out for +120,
>|> or try to sneak a diamond through for +150?
>|> 
>You made a mistake at trick 2.  You gave Righty the oppotunity
>to signal.

>You should have played diamonds first.
>LHO might continue hearts.
>Once his partner signals spades, he never will.

	This is not very sound reasoning.  Let's assume first that
	LHO has the DA.  If LHO wins the diamond shift there's a sure
	fire spade coming down.  LHO *KNOWS* that RHO doesn't have the
	AH since (s)he would have covered the K.  looking at the dummy
	and realizing that you attacked diamonds, LHO should return a
	spade because of the board.

	On the other hand, if RHO has the DA, you can bet (s)he'll find
	the spade switch looking at dummy.  This is an easy way to go
	down in a contract and I guarantee you that a minus score will
	be below average.  +120 should be around average for the field
	(since you did talk them out of a spade contract).

	Take the plus and run your eight tricks.

	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: heintzelman-george@CS.YALE.EDU (George Heintzelman)
Subject: Re: Bid this monster
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:05:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.180004.17967@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.150114.28928@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Myerson) writes:
>:My partner and I were on the receiving end of this gift.
>:
>:Matchpoints. North. EW Vul.
>:
>:  N:  xx, T98xx,   KQxx, Kx
>:  S:  Ax, AKQJxxx, ---,  Axxx
>:
>:The bidding at our table:
>:West   North  East   South
>:       pass   1D-1   1H       1. Precision, < 17 HCP, 3+ diamonds
>:pass   4H     pass   4N
>:pass   5C     pass   5H
>:pass   pass   pass
>:
>:The ace of diamonds, as expected, is over the KQ, so NS scored +510.
>:After the hand, South admitted not knowing what to do with her monster.
>:She said she knew Blackwood was silly, so no flames about that.
>:She asked us how it should be bid (sure, like we're the local experts - NOT),
> 
>The possibility of bidding [and making 7] is remote.
>
>I would simply bid a pedestrian 6H. I would also have contented myself
>with a 3H call by North, rather than 4H, [partner overcalled and did not
>OPEN 1H].  
	True, but I would make this even more of a reason to go the
preemptive route with 4H.  I don't fault North for that call.
>
>Simply put, South has a 3 loser hand. Partner should be able to cover 2 of
>them for the leap to 4H. South should simply bid 6H over 4H.
	Um...hate to pop a little bubble here, but South has a
*4*-loser hand.  I don't think, even with North jumping to 4H, that
you can be at all secure bidding 6H...
	Unfortunately, I don't see an easy way of finding this thing
rigorously...If south starts cuebidding with 4S, say, North is most
likely going to turn down the invite with 5H...I think? Would daring
North's cuebid the KQ of diamonds?  If you're going to get there,
though, either North or South, and most likely South, will have to
make a shot in the dark.  As far as I can see, that is.
>--
>Bob Silverman

George Heintzelman
From: desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: No-trump indicates stopper, but--!
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:44:13 GMT
Organization: IDA Center for Communications Research, Princeton

Avi Roy Shapira <avir@chen.bgu.ac.il> writes:
> At imps, vulnerable game and slam swings often decide the outcome of the
> match, and one cannot risk them.  At match points, or board-a-match, the
> pass is clear, but vulnerable at imps or total points, I am not so sure.

Varis Carey <varis@zoyd.ae.utexas.edu> writes:
> Pass is a bad call.  It is horrid at matchpoints, planing to go -80 or
> +50 in 1H when you are odds on to be going plus in a suit.

I just thought I would point out the interesting inconsistency between these
two positions.  Personally, I don't claim my judgment is good enough to
determine whether pass is worse at IMPs or at matchpoints.

                                        David desJardins
From: dberman@cs.washington.edu (Deborah Berman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: related cue-bidding question
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:34:17 GMT
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In response to the cue bidding question, I was under the impression that 
first-round controls get bid up the line, and second round controls are
usually bid (up the line with first round controls) after a first round
control in that suit has been bid.

Now, my own question:

When is it okay to bid a second round control if you don't have any first
round controls, but you want to give info to your partner, and also
when in a cue-bidding sequence, how do you find out about trump strength?
Some people use 4NT, but then it has to be clear that this isn't to play
(which it could be with a minor suit fit and not enough to bid and make
6).

For example, a few people cue-bid the heart queen singleton on the
recent "7 clubs" hand. What if partner is missing the A of hearts and
takes that to mean that you have it?

Thanks for any and all intelligent non-flammatory comments.

Debbie
-- 
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend...
   Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.  (Groucho Marx)
From: varis@zoyd.ae.utexas.edu (Varis (Carey))
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Missing Slam
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:57:41 GMT
Organization: CFD Lab, Dept ASE-EM, University of Texas at Austin
In-reply-to: kibler@turing.ICS.UCI.EDU's message of 15 Aug 92 15:08:42 GMT


 Dennis Kibler writes...
 North: xxx, Jxx, xxx, AQxx

 South: Ax, AKQxxxx, Kx, Kx

The bidding:

   East   South    West    North
    1d     x        p       2c
    2d     3d       p       3h*
    p      4h**     p       p***
    p



I expect that the unstarred bids are routine.

*   Should North bid 4d to show  values?
**  Should  South bid 4d to push auction in to cue bidding?
*** Should North cue 5 clubs?

dennis
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. 3d is a bad bid with the south cards.  3H shows the old style
Stong Jump Overcall south holds(with extras).  This sets the suit,
and demands ace-cue bids.

2. after 3h, north should bid 4C.  4D suggests a scattered maximum
with a heart fit.(I think) while 4C shows the A as well as probable concentration.

3. So I suggest
    3H         4C
    4N         5D(blackwood or rkc)
    6H

Unfortunately, this sequence highlights the spade lead that beats 6Nt
at matchpoints, (RHO didn't double 5D for the lead) so maybe in a weak
field a jump to 6N(over 4c) is better, but in a strong, agressive field,
RHO could have a very light opener, pard could have the A of D, and
7Nt rolls.

--
_____________________________________________________________________________
|"Kojiro had put his confidence in the sword of strength and skill. Musashi |
| trusted in the sword of the spirit.  That was the only difference between |
| them."  From Eiji Yoshikawa's "The Way of Life and Death"		    |
|				KILLER CLOWN				    |
| email: varis@cfdlab.ae.utexas.edu					    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlg@siemens.com. (Michael Greenberg)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Play 6H (corrected version)
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:44:24 GMT


 
Yet another slam to play:
 
IMPS
Neither
South
 
N: -,AKJTxx,Qxx,Axxx
 
S: KJ8x,xx,AKx,KQT9
 
Bidding
 
1N - 2D* - 2H - 6H
 
2D is transfer
 
Lead 2s
 
--
Michael Greenberg                      email: mgreenberg@siemens.com
Siemens Corporate Research             phone: 609-734-3347
755 College Road East
Princeton, NJ 08540
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: Professor WHO?
Subject: Re: No-trump indicates stopper, but--!
Summary: About Wrong-siding
Originator: boyiny@carleman
Keywords: siding, position, stopper.
Reply-To: boyiny@math.mit.edu (Dr. Weird)
Organization: Ayatollah's Correct Bidding Lessons
X-Subliminal-Message: Italianate defensive bidding is FUN!
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 17:29:13 GMT

David desJardins writes:
>Eric Taylor writes:
>>With LHO openings and you having a 20 points hand, you can expect
>>your partner to have 1 ace or 1 king 50% of the time.  And the lead
>>will be from the dangerous side.  I would guess that a NT contract would go
>>down more than 50% of the time with a lead of the original bid suit.
>
>Dr. Weird <boyiny@math.mit.edu> writes:
>>Depends, I guess.  Still, if partner has shape it can be shown over 1N
>>and we would not be playing no-trump.  Certainly I expect that to happen if
>>the opponents had nine hearts.
>
>I strongly agree with Eric.  There is an even more serious problem with
>the 1NT bid or rebid by the strong hand than the lack of a stopper.
>That is the serious likelihood of playing NT from the wrong side.

[This was about the notorious 2-3-4-4 20-count with Jxx of hearts, when RHO
opened one HEART.  The argument is about doubling and rebidding 1N.]

If there is in fact either half a stopper or a stopper, the only time that
playing from your side can REALLY hurt if partner holds specifically Ax.
If partner holds that hand and there is enough for game, there is a chance
that the initial response to a takeout double may have been 1N instead.

The other situation that wrong-siding is potentially dangerous is when
partner holds precisely Kxx.  It seems that this is less likely than the
above.  One needs a simulation for this kind of thing.
From: varis@zoyd.ae.utexas.edu (Varis (Carey))
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: A Matchpoint Decision
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:47:09 GMT
Organization: CFD Lab, Dept ASE-EM, University of Texas at Austin
In-reply-to: sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com's message of 18 Aug 92 14:55:34 GMT


Well, if you were going to sneak a diamond through, it could be too late now.
The club play at trick two was poor.  You should also win the first
heart in hand.  (To encourage continuation)


1C-dbl is unlikely.  Unless LHO is leading from the weaker of two 4
card majors, he is probably a random 7-8 count with 3532 or 4432.

so either 1C-1H-2H or 1C-P-3C are likely auctions.  But it is unlikely
that the opponents will buy the contract below 4S doubled, even if
they have the courage to enter the auction with a double or a suit call.

so you are praying that the opponents are competing to 4S and getting
hit, or that your hand tried 3NT(unlikely) or 5C (more unlikely) and
going down.

And if the hands are 4-4 in hearts 4S dbld could go for 300. (assuming
they negotioate the heart ruff)

Otherwise +120 is a bad score, as you have already misdeclared the hand.

So you have a guess.  Either try the J of D at trick 3, hoping for an error,
or run 5 clubs, and hope they pitch more spades(good luck) and then
hope to pass a diamond through either hand.

Of course, if the field has a lot of wk no trumpers, the cash out is
now correct.  So it really depends on the game in the end.


--
_____________________________________________________________________________
|"Kojiro had put his confidence in the sword of strength and skill. Musashi |
| trusted in the sword of the spirit.  That was the only difference between |
| them."  From Eiji Yoshikawa's "The Way of Life and Death"		    |
|				KILLER CLOWN				    |
| email: varis@cfdlab.ae.utexas.edu					    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jaffray@sunkist.berkeley.edu (Alan Jaffray)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Simulations (was Re: No-trump indicates stopper, but--!)
Date: 22 Aug 1992 19:24:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunkist.berkeley.edu

In article <1569@idacrd.UUCP> desj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins) writes:
>I disagree with many of
>Alan's specific analyses, but I have to come to the same overall
>conclusion.  Double simply works out better than pass.

I finally got myself to read the rest of the article (after turning
away in horror after I saw I had scored +70 for 1NT :-).

My attitude regarding simulations is that because
of partnership style and such, the winning action can rarely be
"proved", but that they are very useful for getting a realistic
perspective on relative importance of various strengths and 
weaknesses of an action.  Thus I wasn't aiming for statistical
precision, but rather for a decent rough evaluation of how the
differnt calls worked out, and why.  Clearly, though, with the
number of errors I made, I need to be a *little* more careful.

By the way, on a couple of hands, it looks like one of us (probably
me) swapped the North and East hands.  This may explain a couple of
my seemingly inexplicable predictions.  (Need to get my funky little
program to make better output... :-)

>P.S. If possible, when you do a simulation like this, please post the
>*exact* rules used to select the candidate hands.  Thanks.

Well, here it was difficult.  You see, my highly bogus method of selecting
candidates involved producing 10+ HCP and 5+ heart hands for the 1H
opener, and then throwing out those that didn't look like 1H openers.
It's not precise, but better than nothing...

I once put a more accurate computer count into my program (the one 
mentioned in _The Bridge World_, the "4 C's" count).  Alas, it then
started spitting out 8-counts when I asked for opening bids.  Probably
forgot a decimal point somewhere or some such nonsense...

A few people have asked me for my program, and I hope the above 
comments will prevent anyone else from doing so.  :-)  Seriously,
if you want to do simulations, write your own program...  it took
me about 2 hours to write and debug, and I know zilch about 
programming, so anyone else can probably do it in 30 minutes or so...
A cute little exercise.

-- Alan
From: taylor@foraker.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Toronto Nationals selection #1
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:24:40 GMT

|> RED, you hold S:AJ3 H:J984 D:K3 C:QT82.  RHO opened 1NT (11-14) third in
|> hand.  All pass.  Select your opening lead.

Club 2  Longest and Strongest

|> 
|> RED, you hold S:KT95 H:7 D:QJT9 C:J653.  LHO opened 1NT (11-14) in third
|> seat.  Do you think you should balance?  With what (please specify your
|> methods in followups)?

2C would show both majors in balancing seat for my partner and I.
If I bid 2S partner will probably only have 3 of them and
I will be tapped.  If I bid 2D, partner will probably bid 2H, and
I will be stuck again.
It seems my only chance is to find partner with 4S.  I will pass
and hate it.

|> 
|> RED, you hold S:AT9 H:K92 D:QJT2 C:KQ6.  RHO opened 1D first in hand.  What
|> is your action and why?

1NT.  15-17 overcall.

|> 
|> YELLOW, you hold S:T98 H:KJ43 D:Q7 C:AK86 and opened 1C first in hand.
|> Partner responded 1S (you play Walsh style).  What is your rebid?  Would you
|> raise to 2S if your methods allow a 3 card raise?

I normally would have opened 1NT.  Here I will rebid 1NT.  If my diamond
Queen was somewhere else, I would raise spades.

|> 
|> WHITE, you hold S:KQ9743 H:J2 D:AKJ C:K7 and opened 1S first in hand.  If
|> partner responds one forcing no-trump (2/1 style) then how do you rebid?

3S shows 6 spades and 16-18 points.  Seems clear.

|> 
|> YELLOW, you hold S:AQ52 H:J862 D:AKT C:AJ and opened 1S second to speak
|> (you are playing 4-card majors).  LHO doubled for take-out and partner
|> passed (denying any kind of a six-card suit or a good five bagger, as well
|> as support).  RHO advanced to 2D.  Your call.


Pass,  Very good defensive hand.  Partner may be able to back into 2S.
For all I know, LHO may be planning to be 2H.  Partner may
be planning to balance with 2H.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao)
Subject: Correction to Re: Play 6H (corrected version)
Originator: daveshao@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 19:28:44 GMT

>From: mlg@siemens.com. (Michael Greenberg)
>Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
>Subject: Play 6H (corrected version)
 
>Yet another slam to play:
 
>IMPS
>Neither
>South
 
>N: -,AKJTxx,Qxx,Axxx
 
>S: KJ8x,xx,AKx,KQT9
 
>Bidding
 
>1N - 2D* - 2H - 6H
 
>2D is transfer
 
>Lead 2s

Assuming opponents can win at most one trick with their trumps,
the only problem is to avoid a club loser.  On the opening lead 
RHO is marked with the SA.  At some point you will want to cash trumps
and diamonds bringing yourself down to the following cards with
RHO to play:

N -  -  -  Axxx

S K  -  -  KQT9

Clearly RHO can't discard SA, so he can't keep 4 clubs.

One minor point: if trumps split 4-1 you will want the opponent
with the queen of trumps to win this trick while you have at least
two spades in hand, for if you are left with only one spade the
SK threat can be erased if the opponent returns a spade.  But when
you lead trumps from dummy the spades in your hand are the only
convenient cards to discard. 

In an earlier posting I made the mistake of cashing a high trump
first.  If trumps split 4-1, opponents hold off until the third
trump lead, and then lead back a spade I will have no
convenient discard from my hand when I draw the last trump.
 
Safest seems to be simply leading J and then the T of trumps from
dummy letting the opponents win the trump Q while dummy still has
AKx of trumps.  This means that I will have played few enough
trumps so that I am able to retain S KJx and the low diamond in hand.