HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: WEBERN
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:20:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.212031.17505@Princeton.EDU> schissel@mace.Princeton.EDU (Eric Schissel) writes:
>Places to find recordings of his works without opus numbers include:
>
>for a middle-period piano piece, a 2-cd set on Denon with Takahashi (sp?)
>and one other pianist playing lots of Second Vienna School piano 
>music quite well.

I believe the second pianist is Ryuchi Sakamoto.  On Le Chante du Monde
there is an extraordinary disk of Glenn Gould's Moscow concert, containing
works by Berg, Krenek, Webern, and, of course, Bach.  Gould's comments to
the audience are preserved.

>for the single movement for string trio, the piano quintet, and the quartet
>rondo in d minor (the latter two from about 1905), a DG disk with
>Schoenberg's Ode to Napoleon (with the LaSalle quartet and others)
>is now, i think, available again in the U.S., and it has probably
>been available for some years in other places.

The Nash Ensemble has a new recording of this work on Virgin Classics.
The disk includes Webern's downscale arrangement of Chamber Symphony 1.

>For the single-movement string quartet from 1905 there are now at least
>two CD choices (Quartetto Italiano on Philips, Artis Quartet on Sony).
>As for the Langsamer Satz in E-flat (i think), there's getting to be
>a right profusion of recordings, since it's available on the Philips
>disk just mentioned, it and the rondo are available on the Artis/Sony
>recording, a new recording of Szymanowski's quartets includes it and
>a string-orchestra version of it is available on some disk or other
>(i don't recall where).

The Arditti have also recorded this for Disques Montaigne as part of
their Schoenberg-Berg-Webern series.

>I have both the Juilliard (on Sony, in the 3 CD set everyone seems
>to be mentioning) and the Quartetto Italiano versions of opera 5,9
>and 28.  It's very interesting comparing their versions of opus 28-
>which for the Webern-unconverted who've gotten this far is a fine,
>dramatic, .memorable. piece (it's a 3-movement, 8-minute-or-so
>string quartet of contrapuntal and emotional interest).
>Thanks for your time.
>
>schissel@math.cornell.edu
>schissel@mace.princeton.edu (machine used to post this)


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: More wedding music
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:30:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.164945.6396@unlinfo.unl.edu> jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu (john russell) writes:
>This is more anecdotal than an an actual recommendation, but I thought
>it was worth sharing:

>At our wedding, we had a great church with great acoustics and the
>best organ in town, a good organist, lots of musical friends who
>were willing to sing in the choir, and a pastor we hated (he was a
>real jerk, but I digress). Because this was an ELC Lutheran church, we
>were told that no non-liturgical music would be permitted for the
>ceremony.

>So.

>The wedding programs (or whatever you call them) listed the Widor
>Toccata as the recessional. 

This is liturgical?!?

>However, as the ceremony concluded, the
>male members of the choir broke into a four-part rendition of 
>"Happy Trails" (which was followed by the Widor). The pastor was
>livid, but couldn't say anything because everyone else thought it
>was a great touch. My father commented that it would probably be the
>most memorable part of the whole affair.

>Anyway,...

>Other music we used:
>Faure's "Cantique de Jean Racine" (in French) for the processional;

Um...

>"Alleluia" from Mozart's "Exultate Jubilate" (sp?)

Sure don't fit in the *Lutheran* liturgy...

>   (the pastor actually asked what the words to this piece were!);
>and the ubiquitous "Lord's Prayer" by Malotte (gaak).

Token, I suppose.

Offhand, I'd say you had a fine set of music, for all purposes:
--making a beautiful wedding
--entertaining the guests
--making a fool of the pastor, not that he seems to have needed much of
this.

I know a very highly-placed church music director in Germany (now
retired) who used to use things like "Moonlight Serenade" for the
communion.  A fine organist, like a good assassin, can slip it in
without anyone noticing.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:42:38 GMT

Jack Campin writes:

> What music was written for the C clarinet?

We're playing something in our community orchestra right now that starts
out with clarinet in A, then switches to clarinet in C, then goes back to
A.  "Martha" is the title; I've forgotten the name of the composer, and
no wonder -- the conductor says it's the only recognizable melody that
this guy wrote.  We played something else a few years back that called
for clarinet in C for part of it.  Possibly a Schubert piece, if I
remember correctly.  And I believe that part of one of the Beethoven piano
concertos (the first or second) calls for clarinet in C.
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: De mortuis nil...?
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:11:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug13.171123.14704
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Aug13.040804.18638@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>
>The man who re-invented Samuel Marchbanks Fairy Piano passed away today
>according to Radio National...

Those who jumped the gun complaining about lack of media coverage should
note the front-page obit in today's (Thurs.Aug.13) NYTimes.  [They can
then start complaining about the headline: "John Cage, 79, Minimalist
of Musical Prolificacy, Dies."  Prolificacy!?]

>Please nothing more about 3-33.

I've never said anything about 3-33 :-)

>De mortuis nil nisi bonum (that goes for Orff too).

I've often wondered about that.  How long after death does this exemption last?
Do we extend the same courtesy to Wagner, Ivan the Terrible, Genghis Khan,
Brutus,...?  (No comparison with Orff or Cage intended.)  None of them are
around to defend themselves, either.


--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.cd
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Mail order CDs?  ***CORRECTION****
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:01:42 EDT


Sorry.  I missed a very important line in the address for Record Masters.
Here's the amended article:

The person at Record Masters says they frequently mail to foreign
countries.  Ways to contact them include:

800-727-3472  (toll-free number that probably only works inside the US)

410-366-1250  regular phone number, now called their "voice line"

410-235-0534  fax line

If you wish to use the postal service, write to:

ATTN:  Classics
Record Masters
711 W. 40th Street
Baltimore, MD  21211

--
Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wendy Carlos and Schoenberg
Date: 14 Aug 1992 12:08:07 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu
Keywords: intonation, intervals

In article <1992Aug12.003801.14651@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>In article <l8gsh6INN93t@calvin.usc.edu>
>alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:

>:(I happened to think of pi, by the way, because a composer colleague of
>:mine - Rick Lesemann - did a piece on an old Moog synth in the 70's using
>:pi as the basis for a non-octave replicating tuning system.)

>So did it sound like anything which someone reared on music from
>Schutz to Shostakovich might be able to relate to?

Sure, at least I thought so. One friend of mine described the piece thus:
(paraphrasing) "The piece had really pretty melodies which I found myself
whistling later. But the moment I went into a store playing Muzak, my
mind 'snapped back' to equal temperament, and I could no longer recall
the melodies."

Bill Alves
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Summary: Stuffy Academics?
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:53:23 GMT

In article <qgRsPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:
 
>That's fairly blunt. It's certainly true that it's questionable whether a 
>lot of what he did could be termed "music" at all, but to his credit he 
>did write some very interesting stuff. The place I lose him is where one 
>piece of music can sound totally different when interpreted by several 
>people. In my mind, the point where the last bit of order is gone is 
>where is stops being music and starts becoming "performance art".

"Performance Art"?  What makes you think it's art at all?

>However in the original message, I agree completely. Stuffy academics who 
>look down their noses at Cage and self-righteously say to one another "I 
>suppose he's INTERESTING..." while rolling their eyes in contempt, DO 
>need a good amount of Cage rammed down their throats. 

If you noticed, it is the "stuffy academics" who are ramming this stuff
down our throats (such a the ones who made me listen to it when I was
in school, and Mr. Lustig who is (presumably) an academic musicologist.
Look around this news group.  The way to rile up the academics is not by
praising people like Cage, but by pointing out that what he did was neither 
music nor art.
 
>Say what you like about Cage...at least he's never boring. Wish I could 
>say the same for Mozart.
 
Are you telling me that sitting in silence for 4'33" is something other 
than boring?  I can't imagine anything less exciting.

--Brian 

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: fsi@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (furrokh.s.irani)
Subject: operas in PAL format
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:51:57 GMT
Keywords: video, tape, opera, PAL


Can anyone tell me where (address or phone number) I can buy video
tapes of operas recorded in PAL format?

Thanks. Please reply to me and not the net.

-Furrokh
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: (no subject given)
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:12:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Univ of Arizona - Biotec Computing

In article <92224.213738RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>, RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert
Haskins) wrote:
> One of these days, I'll have the sufficeint time to think about this 
> problem and express it correctly.  Maybe when I get to grad school.
> 
> Bob

									yeah, right.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski, VAX/VMS Systems, Biotechnology Computing
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Phone: +1 602 621-3206          Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
From: rholmes@athena.cs.uga.edu (Robb Holmes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:01:12 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

>I never claimed to be an expert on Cage.  I hate his "music"....  
					     ^^^^

The only thing you have demonstrated is the futility of hatred.

The claim that, by producing work that you are incapable of recognizing
as music, Cage destroyed music, is clearly absurd.

I am not fond of much of Cage's work, either, and I think it likely
that in 100 years he will be nothing more than a footnote in discussions
of twentieth century music.  But Beethoven, Mozart, and any other 
personal icon you care to hold up are in no way diminished by a bit
of listening to Cage.  Indeed, the contrast may well make their qualities
shine all the more.

It is possible to admire and respect Cage and mourn his passing, as I
do, without completely buying his esthetic.


-------
Robb Holmes  WUGA-FM  Ga. Center for Continuing Ed.  Univ. of Georgia
rholmes@athena.cs.uga.edu  
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Rangstrom
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:42:35 GMT


Anyone with a taste for the Romantic style, genus mid-20th 
Century, species Scandinavian, will probably enjoy

	Ture Rangstrom (1884-1947)
	Miss Julie - Piano Music - Songs
	Swedish Society Discofil (SCD 1040)

The contents are too long to list, but included are
orchestral miniatures, fragments, piano pieces, and
songs.  As the title indicates, many of the works are
derived from/inspired by Strindberg.

An exceptionally lovely collection.  (In my opinion,
this is a fact.)





Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:59:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.194403.18619@oct17.dfe.dec.com> chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban) writes:

>We are free to choose music we like without regard for the opinions of
>pretentious Princetonians.  Personal choices like these are not to be
>criticized.  Even if a bride and groom were to  choose Spike Jones' "Cocktails
>For Two" as wedding music,  guests' opinions of that choice are of no
>consequence.

Don't be ridiculous. Obviously they're important to the guest, and
furthermore, the guest is perfectly free to even (gasp!) post them to rec.
music.classical if he or she wants to. And you're perfectly free to get
as snippy as you want to about it, but I'd rather read pretentious
Princetonians any day. Even if they do really attend the U. of Chicago.

Do you know what the context of the Lohengrin wedding march is?

						Jeff Winslow,
						oracular Oregonian
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:47:40 GMT

In article <BtCst1.B7q@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>In article <qgRsPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:
> 
>>That's fairly blunt. It's certainly true that it's questionable whether a 
>>lot of what he did could be termed "music" at all, but to his credit he 
>>did write some very interesting stuff. The place I lose him is where one 
>>piece of music can sound totally different when interpreted by several 
>>people. In my mind, the point where the last bit of order is gone is 
>>where is stops being music and starts becoming "performance art".
>
>"Performance Art"?  What makes you think it's art at all?
>
>>However in the original message, I agree completely. Stuffy academics who 
>>look down their noses at Cage and self-righteously say to one another "I 
>>suppose he's INTERESTING..." while rolling their eyes in contempt, DO 
>>need a good amount of Cage rammed down their throats. 
>
>If you noticed, it is the "stuffy academics" who are ramming this stuff
>down our throats (such a the ones who made me listen to it when I was
>in school, and Mr. Lustig who is (presumably) an academic musicologist.
>Look around this news group.  The way to rile up the academics is not by
>praising people like Cage, but by pointing out that what he did was neither 
>music nor art.

I may be an academic, but a) I'm not a musical academic and b) I think
my students will all agree that I'm far from stuffy. Nobody is
"ramming" this down your throat, but you appear to wish to deny anyone
the opportunity to hear it and consider it music. Have a little
insecurity problem do we?

> 
>>Say what you like about Cage...at least he's never boring. Wish I could 
>>say the same for Mozart.
> 
>Are you telling me that sitting in silence for 4'33" is something other 
>than boring?  I can't imagine anything less exciting.

Sitting through two hours of Les Miserable - I speak from experience.

Deryk Barker.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: duli@prony.colorado.edu (Li Du)
Subject: Chopin Preludes by Cortot
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:42:05 GMT

This may have been brought up and discussed before.

I'd like to hear from you Chopin lovers what do you think about Cortot's
performances of Chopin Preludes(Op. 28)? Specifically, which version of
his records would you recommend? I understand that there are three
versions exist: 1926, 1933-34 and 1943. I've listened to the 1926 version,
and I enjoyed it very much. I haven't got chance to listen to the other
two versions. Are the later versions better than the 1926 version
artistically, or maybe just acoustically?

Thanks for your input.

---------------------------------
 Li Du | duli@prony.colorado.edu
---------------------------------
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Glenn Gould's CBC Radio Programs
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:00:47 GMT

I have an old CBS masterworks recording of "I was a concert hall
dropout". It features my favourite - "Petula Clark is valid lieder in
the post-Mendelssohnian tradition"
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:02:35 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <c1JuPB3w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott) writes:
>maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick) writes:

>> |> In my mind, the point where the last bit of order is gone is 
>> |> where is stops being music and starts becoming "performance art".

>> Got a definition of music handy?

>No definition, just the idea that something in a piece should be fixed. 
>Fixed enough that listening to it lends it some sort of recognition.
>Cage threw THAT idea away, too. 

Not really.  He simply didn't use it in some of his pieces.

>So call it "sound sculpture" or something. 

As opposed to what music that isn't sound sculpture?

(Like, hey, now, a *sculpture,* THAT's something *fixed,* man.  In
stone, yet.)

>Music and philosophy are a bad mix.

You're beginning to catch on!  Cage was interested in removing
philosophy from music where possible.  All those years of Aristotle and
Plato and Kant and Nietzsche and Kierkegaard and so on needed some
serious stripping away.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban)
Subject: Re: Chopin Preludes by Cortot
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 13 AUG 92 20:33:22 PST


In article <1992Aug13.184205.20147@colorado.edu>
duli@prony.colorado.edu (Li Du) writes:
>I'd like to hear from you Chopin lovers what do you think about Cortot's
>performances of Chopin Preludes(Op. 28)? Specifically, which version of
>his records would you recommend?

I have a NIFTY recording of a Duo-Art Piano Roll of #15 (Raindrop) done
by Cortot.  It is on an Italian label (FONE 90 F 12 CD) This CD is distributed
by Allegro.  7 selections by Cortot and 5 by Horowitz.  Odds are this is
the only way you'll hear Cortot in DDD (or, in this case maybe DDDD ;-))

-Ed
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Mystery of the missing CD's !
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:45:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.174550.8159@vax.oxford.ac.uk> atmrjga@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>Has anyone else thought they've bought a CD, then taken it home only to find 
>that they've got a CD case with nothing in it?
>		<stuff deleted>
>I've bought around ten CD's non-locally since Christmas, and TWO of them
>have turned out to be empty cases when I've got home. <more stuff deleted>
>the more recent one, although reduced, was still moderately
>expensive (ten pounds), and I'm not going to let them get away with it again!
>

And ... you absolutely shouldn't.  You pay for a CD, you should get a
CD.

>Does anyone else suffer from these problems, or have I just been very unlucky?

No, I've always had the CD included.  But, a couple of times I've had
pages missing from the booklet.  Both times it was renaissance choral
music,  and the missing pages included the English version of the
lyrics.  

>Have you had trouble persuading the stores they sold you an empty case?

No problem showing them missing pages, and I doubt if you'll have
a problem with the missing CD (at least in the States) if you have
the receipt.


John D.


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@zinka.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Glazunov
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:17:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.192626.22445@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:

i >In article <1992Aug11.230437.15126@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
 >|> I'd like to ask the net about Glazunov. Is his music worth exploring?
 >|> I've heard a couple of the ballets (The Seasons) and the Violin Concerto,
 >|> but none of the symphonies, quartets, etc. He seems to be a neglected composer.
 >|> 
 >Glazunov is somewhat of a post-romantic, living into the year 1936, and 
 >inheriting much of his inspiration from his older compatriots, the Russian 
 >5: Balakirev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Mussorgsky, Cui (Cui, by the way,
 >was primarily a critic, and not a composer, which may explain why you never
 >hear any of his music!).

Cui was both.  I think he is an underrated composer (better, in my opinion,
than Glazunov).  At least two of his operas (including Angelo, Tyrant
of Padua) were once highly regarded.

 Glazunov's music is generally not considered as 
 >important as that of his elders, but it is wonderful music all the same. 
 >He had a remarkable musical memory, rivaling Mozart, apparently. If I 
 >remember the story correctly, the Overture to the opera Prince Igor by 
 >Borodin would be forever lost if not for Glazunov. It seems Borodin
 >composed the overture only in his head, and never wrote it down. He
 >did, however, play it once on the piano for a group of friends, which
 >included Glazunov. After this one hearing, Glazunov went home and wrote
 >down the whole piece, later orchestrating it.

My understanding is that Glazunov wrote the overture after Borodin's
death from tunes that are in the opera.

I believe Glazunov did write Act III, which required so much patching
of Borodin's fragments and so much original composition from Glazunov
that it has often been omitted in performances of Prince Igor.

 >Glazunov wrote quite a few really neat orchestral pieces, including
 >Finnish Fantasy (I'm not quite sure if that is the right name) and 
 >Stenka Razin, a tone poem about some pirate along the Volga. These
 >are very colorful and well orchestrated, much fun, and well worth
 >listening to. Check out these and anything else you can find. It's
 >all good stuff.

I find his symphonies and ballets bland.

Richard - rwilmer@gateway.mitre.org
From: mikulska@astro.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 17 Aug 92 04:54:35 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug16.194403.18619@oct17.dfe.dec.com> chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug16.144811.9375@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
>
>>I will never understand the use of the Lohengrin Wedding March. [...]
>>and it's hopelessly >>inappropriate as soon as you know the source.
>>[...]
>
>We are free to choose music we like without regard for the opinions of
>pretentious Princetonians.  Personal choices like these are not to be
>criticized.


Sorry, pal, you completely missed the point.

Besides, the original poster asked for suggestions.  And guess what: one
of the purposes of USENET is to exchange opinions, especially when the
opinions are informed.  Nobody is forcing anybody to take those opinions
into account, though.


-Margaret (a pretentious Princetonian :-)
mikulska@astro.princeton.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical