HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Blackbird Paint (was: SR-71 top speed estimates)
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:17:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Apr17.011745.20432
Organization: Yale Computer Science Department


From yarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin)

prm@ecn.purdue.edu (Phil Moyer) writes:
>>From colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab)
>>I suppose everybody already knows this, but the Blackbird isn't painted black,
>>it's indigo blue, and my book shows a top speed of 3100 mph, but who knows.
>
>It's black.

"The color was determined after tests for emissivity -- heat emission from
the hot airplane in flight.  Emissivity can make a difference of 50 to 80
degrees in temperature of the aircraft, so it is a critically important
item.  Actually the color of the Blackbirds becomes blue as temperatures
increase at high speed and altitude."
	-- Kelly Johnson, in _Kelly: More Than My Share Of It All_ 

--
Norman Yarvin						yarvin@cs.yale.edu
From: joar@stud.cs.uit.no (Joar Ankarstein Larsen)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: USSBN&USSN
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:59:51 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway


From joar@stud.cs.uit.no (Joar Ankarstein Larsen)

I heard that someone had writen  a complete list over all US
submarines, bouth the huntter-class and the missile=classes
Could someone please help me and e mail it to me? 
My e-mail address is joar@stud.cs.uit.no 


By the way, I read Tom Clancys last book, "the ullimate of all
fears." There they talked about the missilesubs as boomers.
Why are they called this? And another question, is the tecnicall
facts that Clancy is using right?



Thanks.
Joar
From: dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Rutan: PondRacer and MudFighter
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:14:08 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ


From dasher!patter@uunet.UU.NET (24224-guthrie)

In article <1992Apr10.014231.10521@cbnews.cb.att.com> camelsho@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour   ) writes:

>This leads to my questions: Just how many WWII engines and
>airframes are still out there is restorable condition?

The number of P-51s decreases by about 10 each year. Although few of them
actually get destroyed racing, the racers use lots of parts which are
cannibalized from others. The last set of Rolls-Royce merlin pistons in
the world went into a racer last year.

>Is this something historical plane buffs should rise up
>in arms for?(or at least be concerned about)  

Yes. And they are.

>What modifications must be done to a warbird for pylon 
>racing?  Can these mods be restored?

Mods include shortening the wings and/or stabilizers, adding new wing
tips, restructuring the air and radiator intakes, replacing the canopy
with a smaller one, increasing the blower pressure, running nitro fuel,
and changing propellers ("Rare Bear" uses a Lockheed Orion prop).
Any of this can be reversed if you have enough money.

>I have not heard anything recently about Rutan's MUDFIGHTER.
>Is there any recent news about this as yet homeless fighter/
>ground attack plane?

Ground firing tests with the minigun were recently completed sucessfully.

On the Pond racer: Last I heard they were still having problems with
the fuel system. She did fairly well at Reno last year until she blew
an engine.

Sources: "Flying" and "AOPA Pilot" magazines.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | "Statistics": A means of presenting your personal
                    |   prejudices in convincing political disguise.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Wednesday, 15 April, 1942
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:53:22 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Wednesday, 15 April, 1942

Japanese troops exploit their breakthrough of the Irrawaddy River line,
driving north and isolating the 1st Burma division.

Members of the French resistance movement attack an German headquarters
building in Arras with grenades.

American bombers attach Cherbourg by daylight.

The United States halts shipments of food and clothing to France and her
North African colonies pending a clarification of the intentions of the 
new Laval government.

References:
C.Argyle, _Chronology of World War II_
R.Dupuy and T.Dupuy, _The Encyclopedia of Military History_
R.Goralski, _World War II Almanac, 1931-1945_
J.Keegan, ed., _The Times Atlas of the Second World War_
C.Messenger, _Atlas of World War Two_
J.Piekalkiewicz, _Tank War 1939-1940_
Royal Institute of International Affairs, _Chronology of the Second 
	World War_
C.Salmaggi and A.Pallavisini, _2194 Days of War_
Brig. P.Young, _The World Almanac of World War II_
The New York Times, daily editions
Time magazine
Newsweek

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"It has been definitely established in the past few years that no policy of
appeasement can be successful.  I call on the government to take possession
by force of all French territory necessary to the prosecution of the war."
- Representative Charles Faddis of Pennsylvania
From: arthurr@sol.crd.ge.com (Rick Arthur)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Mini-Gun question - sci.military #272
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:33:21 GMT
Organization: AT&T


From arthurr@sol.crd.ge.com (Rick Arthur)

In article <1992Apr10.015725.12015@cbnews.cb.att.com>, fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
|> 
|> From fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
|> 
|> Back in the 60's my uncle was an engineer at Picitanny arsenal
|> in Dover NJ. He took me up there one time when they were testing
|> the 20mm vulcan (prototype) and I remember it EMPTYING a flat
|> bed railroad car of ammo in a very short period of time.
|> Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063

My grandfather was a project manager at GE during the development of
what became the Vulcan.  The military gave the design engineers a
gatling gun from the Smithsonian warehouse, with the objective of
finding a way to motorize it.  They tested it on the banks of the
Hudson River, just south of Albany (basically firing into the opposite
bank.)  After expending thousands of rounds, they got a call from the
farmer who lived on that bank who said "bullets were coming up from
the ground"... apparently the rounds tunnelled into the bank, hit
some bedrock, and had started tunnelling *up*...

This story always conjured funny images to mind.

	- Rick

_________________________________________________________________________
Rick Arthur					AI Laboratory
arthurr@sol.crd.ge.com				GE Research & Development
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)
Subject: Re: USSBN&USSN
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:18:32 GMT


From youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Scott D. Young)

In <1992Apr8.005951.15969@cbnews.cb.att.com> joar@stud.cs.uit.no (Joar Ankarstein Larsen) writes:

>By the way, I read Tom Clancys last book, "the ullimate of all
>fears." There they talked about the missilesubs as boomers.
>Why are they called this? And another question, is the tecnicall
>facts that Clancy is using right?


   I believe you mean, "The Sum of All Fears" by Tom Clancy.  Quite a good book,
   but a summary would be outside the charter of this group.  :)

   Ballistic missle submarines are commonly called "boomers" by most navy-types,
   but I'm not sure of the history of the name.  Probably it's because the 
   nuclear missle they carry can make the world go "boom".

   In the forward of the book, Clancy specifically states that he alters some of
   the facts regarding the design, construction and detonation of a nuclear 
   bomb.  (For obvious reasons.)  However in most other areas he is reasonably
   accurate, in the ballpark at least.  He does tend to play up how bad the
   X-USSR's military is, however.

   Scott Young
   youngs@ccu.umanitoba.ca 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: EACZ02XE%GRTHEUN1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: re:low flying aircraft
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:43:58 GMT


From EACZ02XE%GRTHEUN1.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu

well, the low flying aircraft issue goes on and on.so in order to avoid t
the embarassing situation,of ignoring GREEK low-flyers,here's 2 stories
story 1.............
the notorious greek journalist kostas kavathas,with more than 20 hours
in 7 different COMBAT aircraft,was taken for a ride with a TF-104G
 (that rocket like aircraft with"non-existent wings").
they went so low above sea that he was able to see the terrorised fisher-
man,duck down.what he failed to see was that they were leaving a contrail
of water,behind.much the same way a ship does.yes that "v"shape!
as far as i can remember,they were flying lower that 10 ft
story 2.............
i beleiv eit was octomber when the GREEK War Airforce announced ,in the
press, the removal from flying status,of two pilots(leader and wingman)
it was because of the complaints filed by the "friends of the forest"
organasation, AND a local service of the FORESTRY dpartment!!!!!!!
you see the lads eatch time they got out with their MIRAGES 2000 (used
mainly as interceptors) had the habbit of competing on CLIPING TREETOPS!

that's all folks.....kostas papakotas tha "sniper" (relay nick.ch224)
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: How smart are U.S./Russian Sonobuoys?
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:28:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Apr13.032820.2315
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology


From henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

>From uunet!rosevax.rosemount.com!tom (Tom Brennan)
>I realize that a crude way to keep track of orientation is to put a 
>magnetic compass in the buoy and do it that way.  The more I 
>think about it the more complex the problem becomes.  You would have
>to correct for the difference between magnetic north and true north
>and that would be dependent on where the buoy was dropped.  There also be 
>some oscillation and/or rotation due to ocean currents and being dropped 
>from a couple of hundred feet...

No, it's not a problem, think about it.  You put the compass in the sensing
head, not in the surface portion, so it reports which way the sensors are
facing.  Use a flux-gate compass so there are no moving parts, which gets
rid of any problems with oscillations and the like (it reports continuously,
so you know which way the sensors were facing when they received the signal
you care about).  And the difference between magnetic and true north,
although it does vary over the surface of the Earth, is close enough to
constant over a sonobuoy pattern that a single correction, derived from
sensors on the aircraft or even entered by hand, should do.  The sensors
in a little sonobuoy head probably aren't *that* precise about direction
in the first place.

Magnetic compasses actually are a perfectly adequate way of determining
direction if you either (a) care only about relative directions in a small
area, rather than absolute directions relative to land masses, or (b) have
enough smarts (and enough idea of where you are) to apply corrections.
-- 
GCC 2.0 is to C as SVR4 is to Unix.     | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
                             -Dick Dunn |  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jmarttila@abo.fi (Fast-Eddie Felson)
Subject: Re: Low altitude training
Organization: Turku School of Economics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:54:11 GMT


From jmarttila@abo.fi (Fast-Eddie Felson)

> The Swedish air force in recent years raised the limit for over
> water low flying from 10 m to 20 m, so it must be one of them.
> The over land limit used to be 20 m, so I _guess_ it must have
> been raised to 30, to keep 20 m over treetops. (I'm sure the
> minimum altitude under combat conditions is secret.)
 
> *If* there are only two, the other must be the Israeli.


I have seen the Finnish Drakens fly in the altitudes of a few tens of meters
too... not sure if it's a part of their training program, though.

	JM 
    _______________________________________________________________________
    Jouni Marttila - Yo-kyl{ 11 B 25, 20540 Turku, FINLAND - +358 21 374624
         jmarttila@finabo.abo.fi - jmarttila@finabo - abovax::jmarttila
From: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Los Angeles Class VS Imp Los Angeles Class (Q)
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:19:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Apr17.011952.20620
Organization: Clark College, Vancouver, Wa.  USA


From gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow)

In article <1992Apr15.043341.10879@cbnews.cb.att.com> Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz) writes:
>
>The Los Angeles-class SSNs weren't originally capable to surface
>through ice, as the sail mounted diving planes couldn't rotate or
>retract, and the sail wasn't hardened. Starting with the U.S.S. San
>Juan (SSN 750), retractable bowplanes were added, as well as the
>hardened sail. They have continued this is all subs after the San
>Juan. They are reffered to as 688I, I for improved, or the San Juan
>class.

Don't forget that the Improved LA Class also doesn't have propellers, it
uses a single propulsor for motive power, and they also have anechoic
coating as well.

Gary

-- 
-----
Gary Snow
uunet!clark!gsnow  or  gsnow@clark.edu
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)
Subject: Re: US SMG (Was Re: US Navy's request for Beretta M9 cancellation...)
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:30:36 GMT


From yuqian@bvc.edu (Suicidal Freshman)


In article <1992Apr15.041928.9473@cbnews.cb.att.com>, robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Paul Robichaux) writes:

>>We use the M249 and M60 as SMGs, and neither are 9mm. I have specs if
>>yo want them.

> Actually, neither of these are submachine guns (SMGs.) Both, however,
> qualify as "light" machine guns, although that term seems to have
> fallen into disfavor.

M249 along with quite a few other 5.56 and Soviet's 5.45s are the new Squard
Automatic Weapon.  Where as the older M-60E3 7.62mm NATO along with MG-3 and
some other 7.62 caliber MGs are the GPMG (General Purpose Machine Gun).  They
can be used on vehicles, choppers, bi-pods, tri-pods.  12.7mm and above are the
heavy ones.  HN was testing something like 25mm for next generation heavies to
replace the M-2 serise.  Don't know the outcome.  I also have seen 15mm ones. 
Some old AAAs were 14.5, and sniper-rifles tend to be medium-large calibers. 
One x-Soviet 14.5mm SR even has a muzzle stopper!

SF
bvc
-- 
******************************************************************************
* #$!#$^%!^&%#%$^@#^#!$%%$#%$!^$&@*^#(&$()%&*%%&$^$#@$@#$#@^&$&^$&$^^%$#$%%# *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*                yuqian.bvc.edu		    the Suicidal Freshman            *
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: urf@sluss.ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)
Subject: Swedish T-72 evaluation
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:47:51 GMT


From urf@sluss.ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)

The Swedish Army has purchased five T-72:s and five MT-LB:s from
Germany, for evaluation. The only problem so far has been to find
T-72 drivers, as they can be maximum 165 cm tall. (They found
three at last.)

An article in "V{rnpliktsnytt" (mag. for conscripts) compares
them with "Swedish" tanks (but annoyingly doesn't say if it means
tanks in Swedish service (Centurion), or only those built locally
(Strv 103/Model "S"). (I don't think the light tank Ikv 91
counts.)

The users don't think the crampedness is a disadvantage "You
don't get thrown around as easily".
Terrain mobility is significantly better.
When things have broken, the crew can fix it themselves, instead
of calling for a specialist.

Firing trials (by and at) will come later this year.
-- 
 Urban Fredriksson   urf@icl.se 'Reply' may not work.   I'm _not_ a spokesman!
 If you plan to read just one book this year...
 ...you read far too few books.
From: woody@udcf.gla.ac.uk (Ian Woodrow)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: SR-71 top speed estimates
Keywords: blackbird mach 3
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:16:18 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Service


From woody@udcf.gla.ac.uk (Ian Woodrow)

The nasa fact sheet on the sr71 (available on-line from spacelink.msfc.nasa.gov)
says it can fly at speeds greater than 2200mph.


-- 
W@@DY_______________________________________________________________________
 /Ian Woodrow, Computing Service, Uni of Glasgow, GLASGOW G12 8QQ, Scotland \
*  <Dog 'n' Bone:  041-330-4800         | e-mail: woody@udcf.gla.ac.uk>      *
 \__________ FAX:__041-330-4808_____________________________________________/
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:19:30 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


From jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)

In article <1992Apr8.010923.17259@cbnews.cb.att.com> brims@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu writes:
>   During WWII there was a British anti-tank weapon which consisted of a
> glass globe filled with white phosphorus and water. It had a handle
> attached and was covered in some kind of glue. Some brave soul was
> supposed to stick it to a tank as it passed. I think I'd rather throw
> it.... Don't know if they were ever used in anger but now and again old
> stockpiles from the Home Guard turn up. 

This was one of the "last-ditch" weapons invented when Britain was
running short of everything, and an invasion seemed imminent.  There
was a metal clam-shell around the glass globe, with (I think) some
sort of spring attachment to push the clam-shell off, all held in
place by a hand-grenade pin.  And yes, it was meant to be thrown,
although you'd probably have to be behind the tank to stand any real
chance of disabling it (ie throw the thing onto the rear deck and hope
you torch the engine).  There were lots of critics who said that the
typical squaddy would pull the pin, wind his arm back for a really big
throw (remember, this globe was *heavy* compared to a typical
grenade), and end up with it stuck to his backpack.  Nasty way to go. 

I distinctly remember a picture of this being demonstrated by an
instructor to a circle of squaddies, all of whom looked very
unconvinced...

Jonathan H.

Source : a schoolboy-type book on British secret weapons of World War
II, modified by 15 years of bad memory.
From: wb9omc@ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: F86?????
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:27:44 GMT
Organization: AT&T


From wb9omc@ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)


For the person near Cincy who thought
he saw an F86, probably not.

The F86 HAS swept wings.

More likely what you saw was an
F80 or T33.  There are still some
of these birds around and in private
hands.  It is remotely possible that
someone has an F84 Thunderjet in
the air (early versions had a straight
wing) but not as likely as the
T33.

Duane
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Subject: Re: US Navy's request for Beretta M9 cancellation...
Organization: The Instrumentality
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:18:44 GMT


From cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)

In article <1992Apr15.041233.8281@cbnews.cb.att.com> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
...
>the sole holdout against metrification in the world. 9mm has been
>shown to be superior to .45 against light body armor. It scores
>higher in one shot stops by police forces than the .45, now that's
>with 124 grain hollowpoints which the military can't use of course.

Yeees...but what kind of bullets do you think the US forces shoot out of
their Berettas? Humanitarian, Geneva Convention-approved ball, of course.
Given this choice, I think I'd rather be armed with .45 ball than 9mm.

Say, isn't it time we ended this humanitarian bullet silliness?
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: shahar@shum.huji.ac.il (Shahar Brovender)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Low Altitude training and complaints
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:05:09 GMT
Organization: AT&T


From Shahar Brovender <shahar@shum.huji.ac.il>



>From henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)

>There is a tradeoff involved, because flying at realistic combat heights
>involves significantly more civilian complaints in places like Germany,
>and significantly more training-mission crashes no matter where you are.
>Air forces that don't get shot at much are always under pressure to make
>training safer and cheaper by compromising realism.

Well - anyone interested in complaints about military air traffic is well
advised to get a standard nevigation (air) map of Israel. There are very few
lanes available for private aviation. Almost all of the south is heavily
utilized for training.

As for pilot loss, the IAF loses a lot more pilots to the Arad road (a much
too popular motorcycle [illegal] racing track/road) than actual training
accidents. The pilots like the Suzuki 750R or 1100F (and now they are
starting to bring in Yamahas and Hondas)... Oh well, c'est la guerre.

Marc A. Volovic
via
Shahar J. Brovender
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: White Phosphorus
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:09:12 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


From moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com

In article <1992Apr7.035242.7155@cbnews.cb.att.com> ha0h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Herbert Simon Ascherman) writes:
>
>   A friend of mine's father was wounded by white phosphorus in WWII,
>and he and I were wondering what exactly WP is, what it does and how it
>works.
>            Thanks.

White phosphorus is one of about 3 forms of the element phosphorus (just as
diamond and charcoal are forms of the element carbon).  White phosphorus
(also called yellow phosphorus) is extremely reactive, and will ignite in
air with little or no provocation.  It was used in incendiary shells that
produce horrible and usually fatal burns on anyone within the explosion
radius.  It has a low melting point and is sticky so it is probably
rather similar to napalm in use.  It is also extremely poisonous.

White phosphorus is also used for smoke screens, since its smoke in moist
air is a fine persistant mist of phosphoric acid.

-Mike
From: bphdarcy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SJ Roc D'Arcy, MBP)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: How smart are U.S./Russian Sonobuoys?
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:22:46 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo


From bphdarcy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (SJ Roc D'Arcy, MBP)

I'm not sure if it was mentioned or not, but isn't one of the main uses for
a sonobuoy to provide the active pings that others can listen two.  I 
believe it has rudementary abilities, but wouldn't it mainly be used with
the likes of a dipping sonar from a helo?   

I asume that there exsit a more permanent and more complex sonobuoy than
that the choppers use when tracking subs (ei the SOSUS system).  How large
are sonobuoys?  I always thought they were much smaller than the standard
Mark 48.

SJRD
From: pyrdek@edinboro.edu
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Missing Answers to Minuteman ?
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:04:37 GMT
Organization: Edinboro University of Pennsylvania


From pyrdek@edinboro.edu

Earlier this month I posted a question regarding the survivability
of Minuteman Launch Control Center sites.

I know the question made it out to the net because I received a reply
from California however (for some reason everyone tells me is the
fault of someone "downstream") I have not received ANY sci.military
news for several days (like only Apr 5,9,13 & 15) for April.

If you have posted any replies to the question of Minuteman LCC
survivability, please e-mail it to me here.  

E-Mail:
pyrdek@edinboro.edu

or, if appropiate, could some ONE person extract and forward just the
replies to this question?

Usenet is good but like most things manmade, not yet perfect!