HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:36:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.144146.20285@fwi.uva.nl> halderen@fwi.uva.nl (Berry van Halderen (I88)) writes:
>s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice) writes:
>
>
>>I see a lot of sexism on USENET, such as the post above. I am not
>>in favor of sexism, racism, etc. and I also do not the like the
>>condescending (when not demeaning) way which sexist men refer to women,
>>an exact paralel of the way racist whites address people of color.
>>I think this needs to improve.
>
>Sexism? Sorry I can't see any sexism in it; this is just having a bit of
>fun. If you can't take it, don't read it. No real intention for discrimination
>is behind these postings, clearly.
>I'm getting a bit sick of women who keep accusing men of being sexist. Of
>course there are sexists, but most accusements are totally blind feminism.
>Men are different from women, they sometimes express themself differently
>and (research has shown) sex play a more important role in men society.
>Is this wrong? Are men not allowed to be the way they are? Mainly no one
>really gets hurt except people who find _themselves_ less then men.
>
>\Berry
>-- 
I once had a professor who referred to African Americans as niggers
and then he would add, "but I'm not really racist, ha-ha" - and
I would think - Really? either you don't know what you are or you
don't know what racism is. He couldn't see any racism in his 
attitude either. Funny, isn't it? 

"Is racism/sexism wrong? Are not racists/sexists allowed to be what they are? 
Mainly no one really gets hurt except people of color/women who find
_themselves_ less then whites... "

I've seen these excuses before...racists and sexists will always need
to justify their lack of respect as something else other than what it is.

Vera B.

'There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see'
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: What anthropologists study and how
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 00:18:58 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <Bw2KwH.IJv@rice.edu> pound@ruf.rice.edu writes:

                                 .
                                 .
                   [Discussion already read . . .]
                                 .
                                 .
 > Christopher Pound      +     I am human by my hands and my feet, my guts,
 > Anthro Grad Student    +     my meat heart, my stomach whose knots fasten
 > pound@ruf.rice.edu     +     me to the rot of life.   -- Antonin Artaud

All you have done here, Christopher, is frame your discussion as an
Anthropologist in the accepted manner as the fellow studying Divinity
at Chicago was asked to do. Make your statements, cite references and
present evidence in support of your thesis. In doing so, you ADD to
the discussion.

Which is the fundamental difference between your work and the other
fellow's; the difference between an Anthropologist and a Theologian,
or Humanitarian or whatever he is doing . . .

Thank you, I do sincerely appreciate your contribution.

Gil

Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice)
Subject: Re: The Bible In The Context of Its Time
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:50:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.133109.15664@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:
>In article <BvoI01.G01@nic.umass.edu> s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct05.135822.10670@rchland.ibm.com> bechdol@vnet.ibm.com writes:
>>>
>>>Does anyone know of any references that approach the Scriptures from a cultural
>>>anthropology point of view that put the Text in the idioms of the time when it 
>>>was written?
>
>>There is a book written by Elaine Pagels, a prof. of religious studies
>>at Princeton - The Gnostic Gospels - about the 52 gnostic gospels
>>unearthed in 1945 in Hag Hammadi (Egypt) - these are not the Dead Sea
>>scrolls - they are gospels such as Gospel of Mary , of Phillip, etc -
>>which are early translations of the ones apparently circulating in
>>that early period of christian era, but which were deliberately left
>>out by the people putting together the Bible, because they
>>questioned among other things the authoritarian and androcratic
>>structure of the church taking hold of power around 200 a.d.
>>
>>This is not an anthropological study but you may find it interesting -
>>especially because of what it reveals.
>
>
>What IS 'anthropological'?  I read GNOSTIC GOSPELS for an anthro class.

Perhaps I didnt word this well. First, however, I would like to comment on
what you just wrote above - you can read any book
in an anthro class  (for example the Bible or Donald Duck and the book 
itself may not be an anthropological study). From what I remember from
the GG it did tell many things about the society at the time, but if
you are completely unfamiliar with the society and culture it addresses,
for example, the book only gives some perceptions of how this society 
was - the focus is the substance of the gospels, so it was with this
in mind that I said it wasn't an 'anthropological' study, maybe another 
word would have been better to describe what I meant.

>What is the difference between studying religion in a cultural context,
>and studying culture? Can you study culture without studying religion?
>Can you study religion without studying culture?
>
>As you can guess, the lines are blurry. There are about a billion books
>which focus on the cultural context of the bible, but they may or may not
>be considered "anthropology". A better Pagels book than GNOSTIC GOSPELS
>is ADAM, EVE, AND THE SERPENT, which focuses more on the scriptures, whereas
>GG focuses on works found that were not in the Bible.
>
>-rob, double majored in religion and anthro...
>
>
Vera B.



Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: erijken@fwi.uva.nl (Esther Rijken )
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:58:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.144146.20285@fwi.uva.nl> halderen@fwi.uva.nl (Berry van Halderen (I88)) writes:
>s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice) writes:
>
>>In article <annius.718390197@freyr> annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) writes:
>>>wuytswin@athena.research.ptt.nl (Wuijtswinkel R. van) writes:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>>I've got a special question for everyone who wants to respond. It may look a
>>>>bit strange, but a friend of mine wants to write an article about the
>>>>following:
>>>
>>>>    The femal bosom (breast).
>>>
>>>A very good friend :-) :-) [wicked willie?]
>>>
>>>OK girls. Put your breasts on the scanner and FAX them to PTT Research. Will you
>>>bring me a copy, Ronald?
>
>>I see a lot of sexism on USENET, such as the post above. I am not
>>in favor of sexism, racism, etc. and I also do not the like the
>>condescending (when not demeaning) way which sexist men refer to women,
>>an exact paralel of the way racist whites address people of color.
>>I think this needs to improve.
>
>Sexism? Sorry I can't see any sexism in it; this is just having a bit of
>fun. If you can't take it, don't read it. No real intention for discrimination
>is behind these postings, clearly.
>I'm getting a bit sick of women who keep accusing men of being sexist. Of
>course there are sexists, but most accusements are totally blind feminism.
>Men are different from women, they sometimes express themself differently
>and (research has shown) sex play a more important role in men society.
>Is this wrong? Are men not allowed to be the way they are? Mainly no one
>really gets hurt except people who find _themselves_ less then men.
>

Word eens wakker, Berry! Lees eens goed wat die frusto aan vragen stelt
en *waar* ie het post! 
Jouw opmerking dat niemand 'gekwetst' kan worden behalve diegenen die
zichzel'minder' vinden, is totaal irrelevant. 
We hebben het hier over fatsoensnormen en hjij tot dit soort
vreemdsoortige opmerkingen kunt komen is bijzonder apart.
Natuurlijk kan iedereen posten wat ie wil maar bij de originele posting
miste ik een smiley. Er stond er geen, niet eens een piepkleintje. Een
serieuze posting met een wat raar onderwerp voor s.c.n., vind je niet?

Esther


Xref: sparky sci.anthropology:1037 soc.culture.netherlands:3203
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Sexism vs. Racism (was Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!)
Date: 9 Oct 1992 05:52:09 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: femal breast bosom

In article <BvtnuI.L06@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
}  Hold it, hold it: *sexism* is caused by hormones?  And you're 
}  posting from Berkeley??   I thought you had to have brains to
}  get accepted there!   
}
}  There's a BIG difference between being sexually attracted to 
}  someone and sexism.  There's nothing about being sexually attracted
}  to someone that should prevent you from treating that person, or
}  that gender for that matter, with respect and dignity.  Hormones
}  have nothing to do with sexism, any more than they do with racism
}  or getting falling-down-drunk.  

Gee, and I thought you had to have brains to work at hp.  If you wish to
narrowly define sexism to only include such attitudes as "women's work" vs.
"men's work", then the cultural basis is obvious.  More broadly, sexism
may also include behavior such as objectification, unwelcome remarks,
and the explicit sexual harassment of women.  My query, which was meant
with no flames intended, was whether this behavior has purely cultural
origins, or whether instead it is the primitive animal nature of males and
culture serves to curb it?
From: v064lnev@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Avatar)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Just a comment
Date: 8 Oct 92 03:09:00 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hello folks,

	Ya know, I don't really mind all this hub-bub about breasts -- in
retrospect it might even be funny.  However, what's really starting to annoy
me ad nauseum are all these damn posts written in foreign languages!  8-)

	Anyone out there know what I mean?

--Zerxes
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Sexism vs. Racism (was Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:42:10 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: femal breast bosom

In article <1b36m9INNmu6@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:
>In article <BvtnuI.L06@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>}  Hold it, hold it: *sexism* is caused by hormones?  And you're 
>}  posting from Berkeley??   I thought you had to have brains to
>}  get accepted there!   
>}
>}  There's a BIG difference between being sexually attracted to 
>}  someone and sexism.  There's nothing about being sexually attracted
>}  to someone that should prevent you from treating that person, or
>}  that gender for that matter, with respect and dignity.  Hormones
>}  have nothing to do with sexism, any more than they do with racism
>}  or getting falling-down-drunk.  
>
>Gee, and I thought you had to have brains to work at hp.  If you wish to
>narrowly define sexism to only include such attitudes as "women's work" vs.
>"men's work", then the cultural basis is obvious.  More broadly, sexism
>may also include behavior such as objectification, unwelcome remarks,
>and the explicit sexual harassment of women.  My query, which was meant
>with no flames intended, was whether this behavior has purely cultural
>origins, or whether instead it is the primitive animal nature of males and
>culture serves to curb it?

  Except that it didn't seem to be in the form of a query, but rather it 
  seemed to take the position that sexist behavior was somehow genetic
  or hormonal.    Of course this belief was put forth without the
  slightest shred of supporting evidence.  


---peter

  


Xref: sparky sci.anthropology:1058 soc.culture.netherlands:3247
From: bechdol@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jeff Bechdol)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:29:13 GMT
Reply-To: bechdol@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Rochester
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

In article <MUTS.92Oct9094629@ruunfs.fys.ruu.nl>, muts@fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:
|> 
|> There we go again :-(? Look at the newsgroups, it is a crosspost form
|> soc.culture.netherlands, which was initiated by the (many) dutch
|> speaking people that live abroad. 
|> _________________________________________________________________________
|> Peter Mutsaers.         |================================================ 
|> muts@fys.ruu.nl         |        Quod licet bovi, non licet Jovi


Yes, I agree.  I hadn't originally noticed the cross-post.  Sorry.  I normally
don't look at where else the article was posted, but I will in the future.

Do we need to continue the cross-post?  ...I thought the original replies were
a rot-13 (honest :))... it was only after several iterations of a rot-13
that I realized that it wasn't English. Hahahahaha... but don't tell anybody I
did that. 8^)

-- 
                                                                     Cheers,

                                                          Jeffery A. Bechdol
"What is essential is invisible to the eye."        IBM/ABS System Design II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: bechdol@vnet.ibm.com                           Voice: 507/253-5500
  Office: rchland(bechdol)                                 Fax: 507/253-8684
    Post: 3605 Hwy. 52 North; Rochester, MN 55901-7829     T/L: 553
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Disclaimer: These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's
Xref: sparky sci.anthropology:1117 soc.culture.netherlands:3321
From: scls_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Scoles)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:46:14 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Oct9.150204.28830@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes: 
>In article <1992Oct9.094006.18735@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
>helene@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Helene Blankespoor) writes: 
>>>  .... [deleted for brevity]
>>
>>There are more Dutch worldwide then you think and we might just prefer
>>to be able to read and write in Dutch for a change. This is after all
>>s.c.n. 

>BZZZT! read the newsgroups line. you have cross-posted into sci.anthroplogy
>also. please remove this group from the Newsgroups: line if you wish to
>post in dutch.

Lighten up, huh?  You're stigmatizing people for either not knowing how to
inhibit crossposts (or not realizing that they have to) and for nor choosing
to speak in your own language.  IMHO, neither are very good reasons for the
kind of traffic I'm seeing this morning on this subject.  It's silly --
let's drop it.  (Yes, I _do_ realize the dist. is still "world" and the
crosspost is still on.)


>thank you, 
>r
-- 
Eric Scoles			: <<insert witty, pithy comment 
scls_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu  :    here >>
University of Rochester --------:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:44:14 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: femal breast bosom

In article <1992Oct7.184752.16039@fwi.uva.nl> erijken@fwi.uva.nl (Esther Rijken ) writes:
>In article <mrs.718391084@athena.research.ptt.nl> mrs@athena.research.ptt.nl (Marieke Schuijt) writes:

>>>OK girls. Put your breasts on the scanner and FAX them to PTT Research. Will you
>>>bring me a copy, Ronald?
>>
>>I find this a very insulting suggestion and I must say that I feel
>>ashamed that both of you work for the same company as me.
>
>Jezus, Marieke, [ . . . ]

  Jezus, Esther (and Marieke, etc) is there some compelling reason why 
  you insist on posting to a worldwide distribution in Dutch?

  First of all, your comments appear to be directed at your compatriots
  so a worldwide distribution is inappropriate.

  Second, unlike, say, French or Spanish or English, Dutch is not very 
  widely spoken outside of the Netherlands.  So these messages are not
  likely to be read or understood by anyone outside your borders in
  the first place, except for Dutch travelers, students, etc, who most
  likely speak English.    When I was in The Netherlands last year 
  virtually everyone spoke English -- I've traveled all over the world
  and I've never been to a non-native-English-speaking country where
  where such a large percentage of the poulation spoke English as 
  The Netherlands.          

  You can hardly argue that keeping these postings in Dutch is avoiding
  the embarassment of "washing your dirty laundry in public" since the 
  damage was already done in the original postings which were in English.
  

---peter

Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: annius@nanna.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:23:00 GMT

muts@fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:

>On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:44:14 GMT, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) said:

>  PN>   First of all, your comments appear to be directed at your compatriots
>  PN>   so a worldwide distribution is inappropriate.

>  PN>   Second, unlike, say, French or Spanish or English, Dutch is not very 
>  PN>   widely spoken outside of the Netherlands.  So these messages are not

>There we go again :-(? Look at the newsgroups, it is a crosspost form
>soc.culture.netherlands, which was initiated by the (many) dutch
>speaking people that live abroad. Official languages are english *and*
>dutch. Although most dutch know english, there is a vast difference
>between conversation in you mother tongue and another language.

>Peter Mutsaers.         |================================================ 
>muts@fys.ruu.nl         |        Quod licet bovi, non licet Jovi
				  ^
				  ^
Let's all start talking Latin on this group. Quod facit Jupiter sed boves non
possunt.


-- 
Annius Victor Groenink      Universiteit Utrecht      PTT Research Leidschendam
Mathematics/Comp. Sc.        avgroeni@cs.ruu.nl       +31 70 3325445 (weekdays)
Atari ST/Music          A.V.Groenink@research.ptt.nl  +31 70 3464732 (evenings)
_____________My opinions are my opinions____________  +31 5700 29396 (weekends)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: jonsson@well.sf.ca.us (Darrell Jonsson)
Subject: Jean Pierre Hallet -- Where is he now?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: sci.anthropology
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:15:20 GMT



I had a very constructive discussion with J.P. Hallet several years
ago when he was living in the Santa Monica Mountains.  He has obviously
moved, and I'm curious if anyone out there knows where he might be
contacted.  At that time he was running an organization that sold
african arts and crafts from which the proceeds reverted back to
helping african food and medical problems.  Does anyone know if
his organization is still in operation in the U.S?
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: fictorie@eir.research.ptt.nl (Henk Fictorie)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Reply-To: H.Fictorie@research.ptt.nl
Organization: PTT Research
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:05:53 GMT
Full-Name: Henk Fictorie

mrs@athena.research.ptt.nl  (Marieke Schuijt) writes:

>I totally agree with this and I still think that Ronald and Annius
>should be hanged from a tree by the balls for 48 hours!

>	Marieke

Toch vreemd dat de immer actieve Mike R. Schenk nog niet heeft gereageerd
op dit onderwerp, een onderwerp dat nog wel afkomstig is van PTT
Research. Of hebben we hier soms te maken met de PTT Research variant
van Maarten 't Hart? De informatie die het commando 'finger mrs' (ik
kan het ook niet helpen dat het UNIX is :-) is veelzeggend.

Henk Fictorie



-- 
Henk Fictorie, PTT Research Neher Labs,    H.Fictorie@research.ptt.nl
P.O. box 421,                              Phone    : +31 70 3326356 
2260 AK Leidschendam, The Netherlands      Fax      : +31 70 3326477
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Sexism vs. Racism (was Re: Female breast (bosom) expe
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:42:47 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1bcpl3INN695@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu writes:

 > I was asking out of simple, sincere lay curiosity?

Yes, of course you were.

But what is you are asking? Specifically, that we might reply within
the limits of two or three 80 x 25 screens of germane and relevant
information which may be of benefit to you.

That is all. Please relax and help us a little to help you . . . 8-)

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Tabloid Topics
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:27:58 GMT


This 'froup has been in existance for less than a year, and already weve
had as subjects:

White People !!
Orgasms and Nipples
How about Breats (Ill take Two)

and now the new breast thread.

when did this become sci.breasts? sci.anthro.sensational?

-rob
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Changes in Methodology
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:32:58 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct14.004945.2088@midway.uchicago.edu> coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

 > I refer you to the methodological arugmentation published by
 > anthropologists for at least the last 20 years.  There are a
 > number of anthropologists interested in reversing old methods to
 > avoid subjectivism in their writings.  For a few samples, see the
 > writings of James Clifford, Clifford Geertz, Victor Turner,
 > Marshall Sahlins(who is here at the University of Chicago),
 > Michelle Zimbalist Rosaldo, Sherry B. Ortner, Alfonso Ortiz,
 > Victoria Bricker, and John Watanabe.

Thank you, finally.

I accept it now that what you meant by "new" is what is generally
referred to here as "post-modernist" anthropology. Yes, of course
their works are on my shelves, as they are I expect on those of most
contemporary practitioners. The remainder are within reach at any of
our four University libraries here in Perth, or can be readily brought
in through our suppliers.

You might have simply referred to them right at the start, if for no
other reason than as a courtesy to your readers . . .

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands