HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:32:00 PST
From:         Michelle White <ECZ5MYW@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mormon/LSD Discussion

Hi Christia-
            I am a woman, and I studied Physics when I was in college,
however, I am in no way, shape, or form, a Vampire!

            I want to thank Daniel for his post.  (I couldn't have said it
better myself).  I see a scary trend forming.  In this 90's society
of *Political Correctness* , and this attempt to pacify, and not to
offend anyone.  I see Christians taking this concept to a different
level with a *Spiritual Correctness* so as not to offend, and be
"Christ-like" and love everybody.  THIS IS DANGEROUS! We need to tell
it like it is... period.  The Word is going to be offensive to the
unbeliever.(Jer. 6:10)  I believe that the Word clearly states that
Jesus is the way, and the truth. We need to reach these people with
the Gospel, and not just admire, and respect them as good, upstanding
citizens, as they head to a lost eternity. Tell them about JESUS!
The real JESUS. Pray for me, friends.  As you can see, I have a
true zeal in this area.

Michelle W.
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:37:41 -0500
From:         BENSON@POKVMCR3.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject:      re: Rush Limbaugh

From: S. Michael Benson  -POKVMCR3(BENSON)  IBMMAIL(USIB4B43)
                         -benson@pokvmcr3.vnet.ibm.com
                         -MVS System Services Design

My two cents....

I do NOT like Rush Limbaugh's style.  I think he is arrogant and nasty.
I do not watch him (it helps to NOT have a tv :-) ) and I do not listen
to him.

Having said that, I also believe he can articulate a conservative position
(if you wade through the other junk) fairly clearly and I find myself
agreeing with his positions.  I was given his book for Christmas and I
did enjoy reading parts of it.  I have not found another who can refute
liberalism as clearly.  If some of you anti-Rush people can point me to
another clear conservative spokesperson I would be grateful.

P.S. Please don't point me to Pat Robertson.  I already have feelings
about his style as well.

                                                              .
Regards,              -IBM Corp.                  (914)296-6199
Mike                  -P.O. Box 950  Y12A/922-1      8+296-6199
                      -Poughkeepsie, NY 12602  FAX(914)296-5155
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:06:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: Ten Commandments.

I must admit to being a little mystified by the desire to cling to the
Jewish law.  You must realize that the word "law" used in nearly every
context of the New Testament is referring to the entire Torah, not just the
Ten Commandments.  Are you willing to keep the entire law, all 613 of them?
 Come now, do you make your wife leave the house during her monthly cycle
as was required in the law?  Do you keep all of the feasts to the letter?

The law served its purpose, and was done with.  Jes s came to fulfill the
law.  Fulfilling something is usually a completion of some kind.  When I
fulfill my mortgage, I finally own the house.  Jesus came to see and die
for the end of the law, not its continuence.

The law cannot justify, (Rom 3:20), it cannot snctify, (Galatians, entire
book), and surely it cannot glorify, (Rom 8:28-30).  All three of those
things are only in the hand of a sovereign god.  Law has nothing to do with
them.  In romans 7 Paul shows that the law's only purpose is to show us our
complete sinfulness.  Then, in the first verse of chapter eight, he
continues  and says that there is no condenmation to those who are in
Jesus, for, he says, the law of the Spirit sets them free from the law of
sin and death.  The law of the Torah, including the Ten Commandments, is
that law of sin and death from which you have been set free.  You want
to keep sin and death?

Jesus spoke to the rich young ruler from the only context He could, a Jew
speaking to  ajew.  The death and resurrection had not taken place yet and
the young ruler was a Jew, bou nd by the law.  This has nothing to do with
Christians in terms of their salvation.

In the beginning of Galatians, Paul has some stern words to those who would
being in another gospel that taught the keeping of the law, it was cursed
he said.  Keeping of the law as a perceived obligation is slapping Jesus in
the face and negating His glorious sacrifice.

Christ said so much in John 5:39 when He told the Jews that they had
searched the scriptures trying to find eternal life, and done so in vain
because their only purpose was to point to Him.  The entire Old Testament
serves only and always to point to Christ, it is not a rule book for
Christians to follow, it is a list of God's sovereign acts and of
prophecies pointing to Jesus.

If law is not needed for our justification, our sanctification, nor our
glorification, then, what on earth good is it?  Don't cling to a ministry
that brings death, you want life in Jesus, not death in the law.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 08:59:58 -0500
From:         "N. L. Tinkham" <nlt@GBORO.ROWAN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Countries Turning to God
              22 Jan 93 08:45:32 EST." <19930122.084533.BENSON@POKVMCR3>

Michael Benson writes:

> IMHO, I think many people are superficially conservative because their
> conscience tells them to be, but in private, they enjoy all the liberals
> have to offer.

     This is a very strange comment to me, because it is almost exactly the
opposite of how I evaluate the two positions:  I see the liberal position
as supporting many of the ideals of conscience (civil rights, caring for
the poor, refusal to engage in "unjust" wars or perhaps in wars altogether),
and the conservative position as the hard message that not all ideals are
practical (we can't afford to care for the poor right now, or the government
isn't the one to do it; we have to protect American security, even if it
means overthrowing a foreign government; and so on).

     I'm a practical enough person to appreciate the conservative position,
and I agree with some conservative points.  But when I agree with the
conservatives, it's usually for reasons of pragmatics, not conscience.
_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.rowan.edu
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:28:54 -0500
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Just what do we want?

    Some time ago I posted that perhaps the people thought the
government was now their God. These type of things make me wonder as
well.
                              High Hopes
                Do you think Clinton will be able to:
                                                      YES
    Health insurance for ALL Americans?               80%
    Improve Education?                                81%
    Create Jobs?                                      79%
    Improve Environment?                              62%
    Make it harder for Government appointees to       66%
      profit financially from the connections they
      made while in office.
           Source: NY Times/CBS News Poll

    Rush thinks there are a much larger portion of the population
think that the government are our "sugar daddy" and are expecting
handouts. This poll is supposed to represent the public.

    In another poll 76% of the people expect "substantial progress" in
improving the economy. The other side of this high level of
expectation is the there is no way that Clinton can deliver and this
is a recipe for MAJOR disappointment in this nation.

    I have tried to say, "We can't just keep giving away. We're
running out of money." but it seems some 70-81% of the people still
expect handouts.

    Someone also asked about the scripture reference to lies. If
Clinton doesn't start listening to the conservatives, the Christians,
the Pro Life group, then he's listening to "lies" manufactured to show
or attempt to show that the "world" is on the side of the left, and
it isn't.

Maks
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 09:04:24 WST
From:         David Straface <xavier@PF.ADIED.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Re: Tithing before taxes

Should you pay your tithe out of your taxed or gross income?  A friend of
mine gave this simple pearl when asked a similiar question:

Always be generous to the Lord

David
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:15:20 -0500
From:         Brent W deVos <UGU00524@VM.UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject:      Membership

To whome it may concern:

        My name is Brent deVos.  I would like to become a participant of your
conference.  I'm a student at the University of Guelph, in Ontario, Canada.
I would be interested to talk to other students or instructors about the issues
which confront the Christian student in a secular learning environment.
       My user id. is <ugu00524@uoguelph.ca>.  I await your response.

                                                     yours in Christ

                                                     Brent W devos

                                                                  .
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:53:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Women's Studies List <WMST-L@UMDD.BITNET>
Comments:     To: Women's Studies List <WMST-L%UMDD.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was WMST-L@UMDD
From:         Jeanne Marecek <jmarece1@CC.SWARTHMORE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: need suggestions of novels

Dinae--

Hello!  I teach a course with Abbe Blum, a literary critic, called
Representations of gender (every year it gets to be more like
representations of gender, ethnicity, and class...which is hard but good).
We read a combination of fiction and feminist theory and psychology/social
science pieces.  I was going to say that I would put a copy of our syllabus
in the mail to you, but now I realize that I can probably attach the file
right to an e-mail message.

Actually, I guess I should send you an ASCII version, so I'll change it and
send it "under separate cover."

We've taught this course many times, and every year, we change it around.
Last time (spring 91-- both of us were away last year), we did Color Purple
(book and movie, and did some criticsm of how Speilberg de-politicized the
book.  We also did She's Gotta Have It (with bell hooks' critique).  We've
done Sula lots of times.  We've also done Women of Brewster Place (selected
pieces), but it's not as interesting as a piece ofliterature as Beloved (an
absolute mindblower) or Sula.  This year we almost used Sandra Cisneiros,
Woman Hollering Creek.  Another book that I like is Bharati Mukherjee's
Jasmine (about an Indian (from India) woman who comes ashore as an illegal
alien and ends up in Iowa City-- she plays a lot with different names
(Jyothi,Jasmine, Jane) reflecting different ways/stages of
acculturation/accomodation.

The struggle in putting together the syllabus for this course is to find
psychology articles that aren't so simplsitic and reductive and flat that
they look pathetic and amateurish alongside the rich theory writings.  I
was especially happy to come upon the "Relating to privilege" piece by Aida
Hurtado, which tries to lay out how women of various ethnic backgrounds
relate to white men.  It's from Signs Winter '92 ?--it's at the xeroxers,
but if you're interested, tell me and I'll get you the reference.  Ditto
for anything else on the syllabus -- I realize that we don't give full
citations -- they're on the articles themselves.

Good luck.  If you get garbled junk from my attempt to reformat and send
the syllabus, let me know.

Jeanne
Jeanne Marecek
Department of Psychology
Swarthmore College
Swarthmore, PA 19081
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:50:32 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KJV

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: "P.Debenham" <ppxpmd@mips.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>
>Subject: Re: KJV
>Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
>Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 12:08:20 GMT

Learning NT greek is definately worthwhile and is no worse than learning any
modern language.  In fact it is easier because being a 'dead' (ie no longer
in current usage) written language it is better defined than a developing
modern laguage is.  For most people the biggest step is getting used to using
a different alphabet if you have never had to before.

For what it is worht I recomend Dobson 'LEarn NT greek' as a good book.  Any
decent bookshop will be able to get it in (I think published by the Bible
society but my copy is at home).  If you can get to a university bookshop
where
there is a theology dept they probably will have copies in stock.  If you
need
ISBN info etc email me.

Peter D

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Death is better than shame'   Boewulf'

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Via: uk.ac.southampton-institute; Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:26:03 +0000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:27:00 GMT
From:         CAROL L <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Do Miracles Happen?

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: goff@intruder.navo.navy.mil (Victoria Goff)
Subject: Re:      Do Miracles Happen ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:40:31 GMT
>
> In article <01GTP36CY1S299DJHO@asu.edu>,         CAROL L
> <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK> writes:
> |> Do miracles happen ?
> |>
> |> Well what do you think ?
>
> What do you think salvation is?

The greatest gift ever given !  Every time I open the box I
find something new.

The problem is, like a lot of people, I try to define it but
God is to broad a concept to be defined.

Carol L
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:33:04 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      need help

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)
>Subject: need help
>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:00:43 GMT

I am conversing with someone who wants to know why Christians believe the
miracle stories in the Bible to be true but not other miracle stories in other
religions.  I don't know about other religions, and I'm not an expert in
textual criticism, nor proving the historicity of the Gospels, so I'll take
whatever ideas I can get.  It seems that he wants them in the format of
comparing between Christianity and another religion, and why we think that
Christianity is true and the others false.  Please respond specifically as it
relates to trusting the historicity and/or accurate transmission of the
gospels, and maybe as it relates to miracles in general.  Please exclude
things, if possible, about God and the meaning of life, just because the Bible
says so, and if we knew the answer we wouldn't need faith arguments.

Thanks

MAC
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:10:20 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Welcome to the list!

Sandy... you've just signed onto the GREATEST DISCUSSION LIST EVER!
Get ready for discussions for days, and a mail folder that won't
ever be empty!
Hope to see posts from ya really soon.
God Bless you today.
Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:14:52 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KJV

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: Adriaan@scinet.up.ac.za (Adriaan Odendaal)
Subject: Re: KJV
Organization: University of Pretoria
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 09:17:01 GMT

Well, it looks to me that we are talking about things, that isn't REALLY
a matter for so much discussion. I mean if I read this or that version, does
it mean that I'm going to hell. Or take for instance me, English is not my
first language, and here in South Africa, we have also a BIG discussion
among some Christian wether the new version is accaptable or not. So what
did I do: When I talk to my Father, I use, KJV, NIV, 1933 version of
Afrikaanse Bible, and the New Afrikaanse Bible, a concordance and a study
guide sometimes. So my table is full of books to REALLY dig into the word of
my father. But the most wonderfull thing is, when I talk to Him in prayer,
God doesn't ask me what Bible did you read, all that He says, TAKE MY WORD
FOR IT IS TRUE. If someone ask me a scripture phase, and he/she have only
that version with him/her, must I say, sorry this is not the true KJV,
through it in the fire. No!, just be happy he/she have a Bible, so many
people do not have that privilage. So why all this fuzz. Lets make it a
prayer tonight and thank God for the wonderfull privilage that we have a
Bible, and the right to read it freely!  Its almost a discussion like which
church is really the True church.  Certainly, there are more that one church
in the world that is part of that one big family. Always remember, not
everyone can be a leg, someone must be the foot also.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:22:52 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Mormon/LDS

Excerpts from christia: 27-Jan-93 Re: Mormon/LDS "N. L.
Tinkham"@GBORO.RO (1474)

> Purgatory and univeralism both fall within the range of orthodox,
> historic Christian beliefs; these cannot be used to distinguish "true"
Christians from "false" ones.

Gregory of Nyssa was within the range of orthodoxy in his time to
espouse the idea of universal salvation, but in later times, the
Catholic Church specificially declared universalism to be heretical.
For Catholicism it does not lie within orthodoxy.

Eric
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:39:12 -0500
From:         John Violette <violette@APXTG03.APEX.DG.COM>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the Military?

>How is it that gays are excluded? Is their a question on the application
that says. What is your sexual preference? If it is, would it just
be

Yes, there is such a question that goes something like, "Are you or have you
ever been a homosexual?"

Since in order to enter the military, you must answer 'No' to this question,
there is the possibility of people becoming a homosexual after entering.  But
if they answered 'No' but actually were a homosexual, there is a potential for
dissmissal for providing false information at the time of application.  But the
same is true for other infomation such as committing felonies or other such
things.

John <><
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:25:00 -0700
From:         SWILBURN@GONZAGA.EDU
Subject:      Mormon/LDS Discussion

Maybe I have started some very interesting and possibly disturbing discussion
regarding the Mormon Church.  All I want to say is that I am a Roman Catholic
and I do not believe in criticizing other religions.  Jesus said, "Love one
another as I have loved you", and so whether you are Catholic, Mormon, Hindu,
Islamic, or Protestant, I don't feel that you are more or less of a human being
than I am.  I may or may not agree with some of the things that the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes or practices.  I feel that anyone
who is faithful to their own beliefs is worthy of respect.  I have friends that
are Mormon, Hindu, and Agnostic, and they respect me for being a good Catholic.
I, in turn, respect them for their beliefs even though I may not agree with
them.  I am thankful to have friends like these.

Scott A. Wilburn
Gonzaga University
swilburn@gonz.gonzaga.edu (INTERNET)
swilburn@gonzaga.bitnet (BITNET)
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:31:51 -0500
From:         "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Ian Williams, are you out there?

Calling Ian Williams:
Sorry Christia friends, Im trying to speak with my good friend
from Down Under who I have not heard from in quite awhile; I lost
his e-mail address!

So, Ian, if your listening, drop me a note! Talk to you later...God bless!
Mark

 UUU  UU GGGGG  AAAA O  THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA   THESE VIEWS ARE MY
   U  U  G      A  AA S   J. MARK JONES, AUDITOR    OWN; NO GUARANTEES
   U  U  G  GG  AAAAA  F   ATHENS, GEORGIA, USA     OF POLITICAL
   UUUU  GGGGG  AA  AA  A   JMJONES@UGA.BITNET      CORRECTNESS....
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:49:01 -0700
From:         "Glenn Radinsky S05152@doc.flc.colorado.edu"
              <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Job and prayer update

Dear all:

     Just thought I would let everyone know about the job
that I asked everyone to pray for.

     On tuesday I went down to the Bureau of Reclamation to
talk to my buddy there.  He said he had talked to his
superiors in Salt Lake and still was not able to get a "yes"
or "no" from them.  Apparently the official line now is that
these posts are now in limbo because we have a new
President, new secretary of Interior, etc.  So the answer is
still officially "maybe."  The unofficial answer is
"probably not."  I know I should not get discouraged, but
when I have been hounding them since late October, it is
kinda hard not to...

     But the door has not been closed yet.  I could still
get that phone call or mail message or letter (or something)
that says "you're hired!"  So keep they prayers going, they
could still be of great help.

                         God Bless,



                            Glenn
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