From: tyger@netcom.com (Kristen Kohlbecker)
Subject: Re: Hooray!!
Organization:  The following is all GERG'S fault!  
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:08:54 GMT

wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us writes:
>ljf (farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>
>> So, Wendy is nicer than I am.  I thought your post was thoughtless and
>> rude.  If a post that starts with, "Oh good grief..." isn't meant to
>> offend, perhaps you could start with a more sympathetic approach.
>
>I'm not necessarily nicer, just more resigned to hear this type of 
>response from people. While most Genetic Women seem to have the same feelings
>toward us that Kristen has, there are a few women who know who I was when
>I posted here as a male and are still friends of mine as Wendy. They have
>accepted me as a woman and connect with me as a woman. They are true Gems
>and I love them dearly.

I'm sorry Ms. Farthing, and Wendy, too. It would seem that I was quite 
mistaken in my assumption that she understood that I did not mean to insult 
her. We shall see if third time's the charm...

(Apologies in advance if this doesn't *sound* very apologetic, I'm more than
passably peeved by this whole business, but at the same time, I truly didn't 
mean to hurt Wendy's feelings.)

>>>>For you to suggest that Wendy should just be a champion of women's
>>>>causes shows ignorance of the fact that to Wendy, it's not _just_ women's
>>>>causes, but first and foremost being a woman that matters to her.
>>>Yes, well I don't know a heck of a lot about the Mormon religion either, but
>>>at least my Mormon friends and Wendy are tolerant of my (fumbling?) attempts
>>>to understand. You could learn something from them, ljf.         
>>Ahem.  And you couldn't learn something from the nice response to your
>>abrasive post?
>
>Kristen, just because I didn't jump down your throat for saying what you
>did doesn't mean I wasn't hurt by it. Very few people (except another
>transexual) can understand how I feel inside. I'm going through the
>same pre/early teen stage of womanhood that you went through. You know, the
>time when comments from peers really hurt. So while I may not have gotten
>angry, I was really hurt.....:-(

Yes, I hurt your feelings, but I have since apologised and if that isn't 
"good enough", I'm sorry, but there is nothing more I have to say. I did not/`
*do* not understand what you are going through, and perhaps I never will. One
other thing I ought to have done, I suppose, was save your post to respond to
later, as I usually do. I posted on impulse, and it has returned to bite me.

I think it came through in my post that my initial gut reaction to the post I
was responding to was one akin to that of the other poster (whose name alas
escapes me) who told you to take your stuff to alt.angst,post-op.transexual.
I felt, after a few weeks of reading your posts about your experience, like 
you were feeling sorry for yourself, but even I recognised that this was not 
really a fair assessment given that, as I have said ad nauseum at this point,
I know absolutely zippo about transexuals/transexuality. But some of those
feelings still came out, and now the sharks are circling.

>>>>You're pushing causes when Wendy is concerned with identity.
>>>I'm not pushing anything...you're the only one that has some kind of agenda
>>>here, which seems to be, "How dare you discuss that which you do not 
>>>understand!" Well, you got me dead to rights...I haven't a clue what 
>>>transexualism is all about, but I'm trying to come to an understanding. I'm 
>>>sorry that you seem to think that I ought to just leave what I don't 
>>>understand alone.
>>No, I'm saying that when you write a post that is so abrasive and
>>judgmental about something you know nothing about, you're going to be
>>called on it by people less nice than Wendy (*nudge*nudge* you know,
>>people like you and me).
>
>I used to do the typically male thing and let comments just roll off
>my back. That doesn't happen any longer. Some of them really hurt, and 
>I just sit and cry. I keep talking about crying. I've cried more in the
>last 6 months then I did in over 40 years as a male. I can't seem to stop,
>not that I want to. I'm sorry I mention it so much. I have a long way to
>go to be a woman. And even then, I will never have had alot of the experiences
>(good and bad) that Genetic Women have had. So please forgive me, if I
>sound a little bitter!!

I'm not sure why you're asking me for forgiveness, even sarcastically. Events
being what they have for me these past couple of years, I have learned the 
value of the occasional Good Hard Cry. There is absolutely *nothing* wrong
with crying. Now *there* is something I can relate to quite easily. For as
long as I can remember, I rarely cried, even when chased about the house by 
my drunk father. He had raised me to believe that crying was for the weak, a 
sign of weakness to be exploited. Then, not long before my 20th birthday, I
learned that I was pregnant. I left the doctor, walked back to my dorm room,
and rather handily made up for my years of silence. I didn't even bother to 
try and compose myself for the call to my dad. Since then, I came to the
realization that crying and showing emotions is definitely okay, and it is the
*suppression* of emotion that is unhealthy. 

That said, I wish you luck Wendy, and I hope the pain of your lost years of
womanhood fades with time. I still don't know diddly about transexualism, but
if it makes you happy, go for it!

>Wendy

Tyger

-- 
      Kristen Kohlbecker    And I would choose to be with you
      tyger@netcom.com      That's if the choice were mine to make   
                            But you can make decisions too
      A Tyger and a Lady    And you can have this heart to break 
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