HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:19:45 GMT

Chris Malcolm writes:

	Gerard Fryer writes:

		Someone writing on this thread observed that the 
		Economist is aimed at a mere sixth form reading and 
		comprehension ability.  

	In terms of reading age there are _very_ few weeklies which 
	aim higher than sixth form reading age. For a general readership 
	weekly that is a very high standard. It's a lot higher than 
	the net!

I suspected that Sixth Form Standard would be misunderstood. In a
general sense there is no higher standard than SF. If things have not
changed, it is the Open Scholarship standard, and I can imagine none
higher. Persons may go on to be more learned, but they'll never be
any brighter. As an aside, at my school, Stonyhurst, we had no numerical
scheme but a Pavonian one reflecting the early origins of the place:

		Elements
		Rudiments
		Grammar
		Syntax
		Rhetoric

I may have left one out... Are masters stil crazed? We had one, "Bolshie"
Ryan, who taught French. 6'6". Shaven head. Full set of badly fitting
false teeth. Loved Verlaine, but had a foul temper. Was supposed to have
killed a man in the boxing ring...

						Fido

						Little Latin
						Less Greek
From: danoc@earlybird.Eng.Sun.COM (Dan O'Connell [CONTRACTOR])
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Names
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:12:11 GMT
Organization: Hmmmm
NNTP-Posting-Host: earlybird

(Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

 (The Grimm Reaper) writes:
 >Kate Wilson) wrote:
 >: >>> Ah, but I went through school with April N. (no middle name, just an
 >: >>> initial) Paris.
 >: 
 >: ...and I went to school with Julius Caesar (Jr., yet!)
 >: 
 >: kate
 >
 >My mother teaches K-8 art at a local school and taught these brothers:
 >Orangejello (uh-rahn-ju-lo) and Lemonjello (luh-mon-ju-lo).
 >-----
 
 I used to live in the Philippines, home of fabulous names.  I worked with
 a woman named Ding Dong Delacruz.  My bank teller's name was Bam Boom
 Hippolito.  Another woman I worked with was named Strawberry Shortcake.
 My landlady's daughter's name was Princess Daisy (named after the schlock
 novel and miniseries).  I could go on and on.  Remember, this is the 
 country whose (former) president's son's name is Bong Bong.  
 
 ---

In my high school chemistry class, taught by Mr. Formulak,
I sat in between Bonnie Rabbit and Irish Butler.

Dano
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sea Stories
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:08:36 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

In article <1992Aug31.161429.2475@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> 
> In her book *Arthur Ransome and Capt. Flint's Trunk*, Christina Hardyment
> writes of Ransome's early years:
 
           (deletia)
 
> For those interested, I beleieve that Miss Hardyment's PhD is on the life 
> and works of Arthur Ransome, so we may take it that he is canonized.

I can't say that I have read her dissertation, but I have read her
tale of taking five small girls -- all her own, no less -- in a 
Kombi across Europe.  I believe it is entitled *Heidi's Alp*.  Not
stellar writing, rather workmanlike, but a rare example of travel-
with-kids literature (not that I would ever venture such a thing, mind
you).

Rage away,

meg


-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu
From: kathrynw@radian.UUCP (Kathryn Whitworth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Sea Stories
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:57:48 GMT


Well, y'all went and gone and done it to me:

When I was at my favorite local bookstore (Book Exchange, 1810 W.
Anderson Ln., Austin, TX), I bought
	*The Riddle of the Sands*, Erskine Childers (I'd looked at
it before, but the jacket blurb wasn't encouraging);
	*The Wreck of the *Mary Deare**, Hammond Innes (solely on
the brief description posted herein a day or so ago);
	and *Two Years Before the Mast*, Richard Henry Dana (which I
recall avoiding in school for some now unremembered reason).
I looked for Patrick O'Brien; they had none.  They only had two or three
of the Hornblower novels, and those were ones I already have.

It's been a while since I read any sea stories, save the Kipling referenced
below, so it's all your doing.

Has anyone mentioned one of my favorites, Kipling's *"Captains Courageous"*?

Also bought (if anyone cares) Thorne Smith's *Topper* (I've never seen the
movie or show(s)(?) nor read the book); Susan Conant's *A Bite of Death*
(third in her series of `Dog Lover's Mysteries'; the first wasn't that
marvellous a story, but the background of show people was well observed);
and Mike Sirota's *Bicycling Through Space and Time* (which I really,
really hope isn't as bad as it could easily be).

Back to sea stories:  a while back, I ran across a reference somewhere to
a woman who sailed with her husband, a ship's captain; on her second voyage
out, he died; she put the first mate in irons for mutiny, and using the
navigation she'd learned previously (taught herself?), brought them safely
back to port.  Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Is there, by any chance,
a biography, fictionalized or otherwise, of this woman?  If not, would some-
one care to write one?

The description I read was about as terse as the one above; there may have
been a name or date, but I don't remember them now.  Help?

E-mail would be appreciated, as I won't be able to access mail for a while
after next Wednesday.

 
Kathryn Roth Whitworth
Radian Corp.
Austin, Texas

... Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer,
my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.  Any
resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic.
The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold
them is left as an exercise for the reader.  The question of the
existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the second god
coefficient.  (A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism
is beyond the scope of this article.)
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Title of poem from scanty fragment?
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:41:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu:
>        Things fall apart, the center doesn't hold

William Butler Yeats, "The Second Coming".

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
 Are full of passionate intensity." -- W.B. Yeats
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:15248 rec.humor:27331 alt.folklore.urban:22423 rec.arts.sf.misc:2745 alt.religion.kibology:3657
From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:05:21 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <1992Aug7.170856.23044@rtsg.mot.com> brand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert W. Brand) writes:
>In article <1992Aug05.035518.9289@deeptht.armory.com> rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
>>But agnostic means one doesn't think that one can know one way or the
>>other, not only that they themselves don't but that no one can know one way
>>or the other, nor can anyone state any "fact" about any such entity or
>>non-entity or none of the above.
>>-RSW
>
>The point is that agnostic is a worthless term.  There is no such word for 
>people who are not sure whether astrology is real, or whether there are 
>ghosts or bigfoots or whatever.  Either you believe or you don't.  And as
>for all of you atheists, stop equating [Gg]od with Christianity.  Expand 
>your knowledge of religion.  Buddhism, for instance, has a much more 
>acceptable notion of the spiritual aspects of life.  Spinoza's notion of
>god was different yet, and embraced by Einstein.  I'm an atheist myself, 
>but disregarding Christianity is a lot easier than disregarding all notions
>of god.  Many of them can easily coexist with what is known about the origins
>of Man and the Universe.
>-- 
>Bob Brand
-----------------
You're quite right, and I believe that most hardbitten agnostics, (as
opposed to "wimp" agnostics), are serious about these other
approaches, whether one calls them "spiritual" or not. I didn't think
we were restricting ourselves to some kind of christian god here, or I
wouldn't have bothered to join conversation about it.
-RSW


-- 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Richard STEVEn Walz   rstevew@deeptht.armory.com   (408) 429-1200 *
* 515 Maple Street #1   To remain ignorant enter in your KILL file: *
* Santa Cruz, CA 95060     /From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com/h:j    *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Summer Fall (was: John McPhee
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 17:44:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.143110.292@ms.uky.edu> fehr@ms.uky.edu
(Jeff Davis) writes:
>A fine book of his titled (I think) _The Control of Nature_ was a
>big favorite of mine a couple of years ago and played a part in an
>almost tragedy of my family's this summer. The book is about
>the rather whimsical way people react to geological inevitabilities:
>in the San Gabriel Mountains for one
>
>Briefly, the San Gabriel Mountains are among the newest, steepest
>mountains on the planet, but they are almost useless for serious
>climbers since the seismic activity in the area has shocked the
>rock into flinders: no piton will hold long.

An amusing book.  One of my first Books on Tape [Cuckoo's Egg was the other]
(I already read both books).  McPhee interviewed a close friend and climbing
partner for Control.  He had a short McPhee story [my friend does not
normally consent to interviews, but he gave one to McPhee because his father
was a McPhee fan: one hand washing the other].  Further amusing.
BTW: we don't use many pitons these days as these tend to be a bit
more invasive means of protecting climbs.

What caught my eye was your story of the fall.
I was going into the Sierra for a climb a couple of weeks ago.
Two days before entry, I was talking to a ranger and some one had fallen
for the reasons as mentioned in your story (falling rock) except he died.
I was a bit spooked walking up the trail and turned around after hauling
gear 3 miles.  Stormed later in thet day.  I was vindicated as far as I
was concern.  The next day we went and did another climb (which had some
one die on it some years back).  So consider yourself: very lucky.

Just passing thru.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: doland@mammoth.com (Doug Doland)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Titles for Tom Maddox Biography Needed
Keywords: our lovely friend
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:58:35 GMT
Organization: Mammoth Data Structures

munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac writes:
%In article <9208271658.AA03359@hardy.u.washington.edu>, Doug Doland writes:
%
%> Tommy, can you hear me? Tommy, can you see me? You will, o' course, get
%> final peeky-boo of the galleys, but what do think of this:
%>
%>         TOM MADDOX: THE ZIT WHO MADE MEDICAL SCIENCE WEEP
%
%And let us not forget the sequel:  HOLLOW: The vacuum behind the facade!
%
%Dac
%--

Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions. They have been fed into one of
those computer things which generated a composite title:

        KARMA'S GUINEA PIG: THE DOWNTURN OF THOMASTHY MADDOX
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Oinkies
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:03:00 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology

Benjamin Hoff(?), author of THE TAO OF POOH, has now come out with THE
TE OF PIGLET.  On the one hand, TTOPooh was centered on such a clever
and delightful idea that it was irresistable.  On the other hand,
Hoff's comprehension of Tao was pretty much an American New Age fake.

No, I haven't read or even purchased the new book yet, but at some
point I probably will.  Sigh.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:05:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <9208271554.AA08952@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes...
> 
>Since I have recently been very critical of Clayton Cramer about some
>things where I felt he was wrong, I feel compelled to voice my agreement
>with him about something where I feel that he is right.  
>Mark

I guess you think we care, or we're keeping score, and that we now hold
you in high regard for your altruism and fairness, hunh.  And I guess you 
also think that we need you as a reference point for what/who is right or
not in the previous and future wankings between you and Cramer, hunh.

Spare us.

Ron >8^\
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Take a Chill (Re: The Literary Canon)
Keywords: race canon
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:18:14 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <87762@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
> In article <1992Sep2.172129.8019@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
> >In article <12084@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >>In article <87485@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
# ### Ah-ha!  So now you're saying all Turkish people are fat, eh?   
# ### Goodness, this thread is fun.
# ### 
# ##Why are liberals so dense?  I was giving an example of how I might
# ##describe a mythical driver in a hit-and-run accident.  Yes, most
# ##Turks I know are rather heavy.  So are most Americans I know of
LOOK,STUPID                                ^^^^

# ##German ancestry (including me).  I was giving a description such as
# ##you might give to a police officer.  If I had said, thin, you would
# ##have attacked me for that.  If I had said, "average build" I would
# ##be criticized for that.
# #
# #Uh, Clayton. I think the above was intended as a joke. 
# 
# Oh, but Terrence, now he's saying all _German_ people and their
                                    ^^^

# descendents are fat.  Or at least their American ones, anyway.   
# Or maybe not German people themselves, just their descendents.
# Their American descendents.  In other words, all American descendents
# of Germans are fat.  But are they _black_?  And if they are, does
# that make them thinner?
# 
# Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

Hey, stupid, work on your reading skills.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe)
Subject: Re: Wordstruck
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:33:20 GMT

Thank you, Mike, for posting that bio of William of Ockham.  It was the
most interesting thing I've read in a week.

			Chuck Smythe
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:00:45 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep1.141452.14468@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <12054@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #And even by the current definition of "conservative" in America,
# #they aren't conservative.  Note their oft-expressed feelings about
# #gun prohibitionism.
# 
# I feel compelled to point out that Great Britain has no Second Amendment.
# Few American conservatives would regard, say, Margaret Thatcher as a
# liberal if she favored gun control measures (as I feel certain she does).
# 
# Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 

American conservatives aren't hostile to gun control because of the Second
Amendment -- and that hostility is in fact quite recently developed.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:16:43 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <9208271554.AA08952@cfdev1.shearson.com>, mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
> I wonder if, perhaps, Ms. Manes & Mr. Rooney read too much into this.
> I read this as if to say "It shouldn't matter what the race of an author
> is -- unless his race is important to the subject matter, or the author
> has brought it up for some reason."
> 
> I wonder how they would have reacted if someone else had made this statement.
> 
> I've noticed that since my attacks on him, Clayton has been a little more
> careful in the conclusions that he draws from points that he has made, and
> seems to be a little more careful in his wording.  This tells me something
> about him.  We can all be a little more careful about jumping to conclusions.
> Clayton's comments are only inflammatory if we assume that they come from
> beliefs which are not evident, and which I do not believe are there.
> 
> Mark

The problem is that liberals are by their nature, bigots.  They
operate in a world where EVERYTHING is black or white, and right
or wrong.  If I express my concern that abortion makes me shudder,
then liberals say, "He must be anti-choice."  Wrong.

If I express concern that homosexuality shows a lot of evidence
to me of being a form of emotional disorder, then liberals say,
"He wants to exterminate all homosexuals."  Wrong.

If I express concern that the government is acquiring too much
power over individual's lives, then liberals say, "He must be
a neo-Nazi."  Not only wrong, but not even an overreaction.

If I express concern that a generation of college students 
is growing up marginally literate, I get, "Well I'm a college
student and I can read.  Clayton's just wrong."

If I point out that racism is a bad thing, and that it doesn't
matter whether the victims are white or black, I get told, "You're
a racist."

If I point out the indisputable fact (except to a liberal or
a lunatic) that the ancient Greeks were white, I get told I'm
a racist.

How do you liberals manage to buy bread at the market without
assistance, when you have such a tenuous grasp on reality?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: aras@multix.no (Arne Asplem)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Anyone got Tom Clancy's "Companion" ?
Keywords: Clancy
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:55:34 GMT
Organization: Multix A.S

My local bookstore informed me that Tom Clancy is out with a new book
in the US, but that we had to wait at least 1-2 months before it would
show up in Norway (so much for living up north :-)). Has anyone got
a copy of this book ? Is this a followup to the others about Jack Ryan,
or is it really a "companion" as the title indicates ?

   -- Arne
-- 
//  Arne Asplem    //  Office:    Gjerdrums vei 12, N-0486 Oslo, Norway  //
//  Multix A/S     //  Phone/fax: +47-2-950800 / 950790                  //
//                 //  Email:     aras@multix.no                         //
//  NUUG Chairman  //  Email:     aras@nuug.no                           //
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:54:29 GMT

In article <Btp8CJ.6A2@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ajmiller@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Arkayn) writes:

>Incidently, if you check your Oxford English Dictionary, as well as most
>others, you will find that, contrary to popular opinion, potatoe is not only
>a correct spelling, but for many years was THE correct spelling.

Sadly for our Vice President, "potato" has not been an *in*correct
spelling during his lifetime. Yet he "corrected" William Figueroa's
spelling it without a final 'e.'


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.british
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:26:57 GMT

Jon Corelis writes:

	An article in the Science and Technology section of this week's
	Economist begins, "On the face of it, Shakespeare's view of men 
	appears to fit the male pied flycatcher rather well."

	As a person whose politics are somewhat leftish, I occasionally 
	have some qualms about my dedicated reading of this economically 
	conservative journal, but then they come up with things like this.  
	How do they do it?  I mean, are there classes at public schools 
	or Oxbridge that teach you how to do this?  

I am reminded of an American tourist who was visiting Arundel Castle and
was much taken by the exquisite nature of the lawns. Out of curiosity he
asked a gardener working in the Orangery how it came about. "Simple, really",
said the Duke of Norfolk (for it was he), "we planted dam' fine seed and
then rolled it for 1000 years". Your first lesson is never, ever use the
word "Oxbridge" again. Oxford and Cambridge are as chalk and cheese and
only come together for one brief moment every year to entertain the masses 
on the Thames at Putney. The Boat Race. Oxford generally wins nowadays, but
sometimes the Thames does. There was a memorable occasion not too long ago
when both both boats sank and quite independently.

As for the Economist, it should be pointed out that while they are 
conservative, they are not Conservative. Working a similar vein, the
Financial Times provides a simple way of picking up the news in England
without getting bogged down in rhetoric.

						Fido
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle)
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:28:19 GMT

ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens) writes:

>In article <1SEP199208295364@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo) writes:
>>In article <67235@hydra.gatech.EDU>, barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes...
>>> 
>>> 
                (various lists of works by women omitted)

A couple more:
			Rebecca West (_The Fountain Overflows_, _This Real
				Night_)
			Nancy Mitford (_The Pursuit of Love_, _Love in A 
				Cold Climate_, _Don't Tell Alfred_)
			Monica Dickens (_One Pair of Hands_)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
..nothing is so fatal to maidenly delicacy of speech as the run of 
a good library.
				Robertson Davies, _Tempest Tost_