From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal)
Subject: Re: *geez* Sorry for having an -opinion- !!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:24:07 GMT

In <1g7d7rINNppg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aj733@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tim Hnat) writes:

>In a previous article, crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal) says:

>are so many of them. For the most part the coders are younger (if there are
>some older codres out there...no flames intended...hell, I'm 25), this is 
>something that they do after school (high...that is) after the homework (or
>before) is done. To reiterate...alot of coders are inbetween 15-21 years old.

This was something that I was *not* aware of when I first posted.  I wrongly
assumed that demos were created by college students who had more access to
programming info via nets and BBS's and comp. sci courses and libraries.

>what the demos do is wonderful...but the demos are not written for you.
>Basically...in writing your views on this or any group, the audience should
>govern the style and content of your posting.

Again, I was not aware that what went into the demos were for a younger
audience than I expected.  Since they are on FTP sites, which college-age
`and above can access, I think you might see how I could be misled.   *sigh*
(And why I was dismayed at the juvenile nature of the text...which didn't
fit in with college age programmers.)

>Do you want them to switch to an Amiga? The only bad thing about this point 

Oh, heavens, no!  I'm not trying to convert anyone!  I just love my machine
and would like them to see it as something that is a work of art as well as
practical.  Games don't interest them, but intriguing graphics do.  I'd like
steer the view away from the "game machine" title, to one of more usefulness.
(Some times I feel defensive when someone comments on how it's only for
games anyway, why'd you switch?)

>Showing them demos is great but they will need to see the practical end (which
>Amiga's do have) of the Amiga (WP's, DB's and spreadsheets) to make them want 
>to get one.

I use Pagestream and Superbase, and those are my main programs on here.
Boring as heck to show someone...no need anyway.  They know that I am
working on a project that requires certain features I couldn't get on
MS-DOG without upgrading heavily ($$$) from an XT.

>If I may say so...your posts have not been well thought out (not that mine are
>any better thought out). By your remarks...I see you as quite a newbie to the
>Amiga (I may be wrong)...a few points: "I can just double click on a text file
>using DirWorks..."(not actual quotes...but as I remember them) Do you use WB
>exclusively or do you use the CLI? I find the WB as *very* limiting...though
>I use DW (it speeds up many things)...I very rarely use the WorkBench (my HD
>has almost no .info files). The point is what and how do you use your machine?
>Do you just use it or do you find out how it works?(a few knowledgable friends
>can be a big help in this dept.) You stated that you tape the music that you
>like...did you know that many of them can be found in ST/NT form and be 
>played in a Multitasking enviornment using Intuitracker?

Well, they were as well thought out as I could make them from what I thought
I already knew - which as you guessed - ain't much.

Yes, a newbie.  Got this machine in mid-July.  Took me til September to get
the majority of it figured it.  I come from XT, Apple ][ and Mac background
as a user, not a programmer.  And I find the terminology surrounding the
Amiga is a bit different than the  -DOG and Mac.

I use my Amiga for a major project involving writing a massive reference 
book.  I need Digiview to scan more than 1200 images, Superbase to catalog
those images complete with the text associated with them, and Pagestream
to put it all together.  That was my original basis for the Amiga: Digiview
and Superbase. 

I have since become interested in "playing" with the machine.  Something 
that I never bothered with on the XT or Mac because they make it difficult.
(And I have this friend who seems to have more fun with my machine than *I*
do because he's always sending me some weird little PD program that gets
me all excited about even *more* things that the Amiga can do and I'm
starting to become insatiable!  You can blame him for introducing me to
the demos... ;> )

Surprisingly, I use the Workbench more than the CLI.  I always hated the
Mac window system because I couldn't get into any operating system to fix
things when it would tell me I couldn't do something or it couldn't find
something.  I *loved* MS-DOS, by comparison.  Now, I find that I like the
Amiga windows because I *can* go to the CLI or the .info file to correct
something that goes awry.

I tape the music from the demos because often that is the best part.  Can't
multi-task and listen to demo music unless I tape it.  I tape some of the
mods because I don't have the diskspace (30meg HD) and can't afford a ton
of floppies to store them.  Even archived they take up a LOT of space.  I
use Multiplayer for a few that I keep on my HD.  In fact, a mod is MORE likely
to get taped if I *don't* like it.  I figure, I spent the time downloading
it, I might as well keep a copy of it, and that way I know if I have already
heard it, and maybe someday, I might change my mind and want it later.  Ya
never know...my life is a looseleaf notebook - subject to change upon whim.

;>

>I'm running short on time so I'll finish up by saying that these demos are not
>made for us. Someone...usually other than the coders has been kind enough to
>archive them and put them on FTP sites (I am forever grateful and hope that
>the practice continues). That you choose to use your time to download them 
>and view them is yours to be made...learn by what you find. Read the scrolls 
>and figure out what is being said. I'm learning alot about things/views in 
>Europe this way.
 
Unfortunately you can't find out what is on them or even if they *are*
worth your time downloading UNTIL you spend the time downloading...*sigh*
I'm finding out that general recommendations from unknown folks on the 
net tend not to match my tastes.  I think I am better off listening to a
trusted friend whose tastes match mine...and I think I should probably stop
downloading random demos...

Thanks for your response :>

Crystal
  ;>
  
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos