HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: joe carter and others
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:44:20 GMT

In article <92348.160110RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
>i'd venture to say that mother theresa has at least five times the
>niceness of joe carter.  so put a bat in her hands, give her about
>650-700 plate appearances, and jeez, you've got seventy-five runs!
>if she can play shortstop, she'd be pretty good!

Actually, isn't Mother Theresa pretty short?  If that is the case, she can
be a taller version of Eddie Gaedel, and be a leadoff DH.  And I don't think
any pitcher will dare to bean her...

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

Dave replies to Howard's reply:
>|>>1B	McGriff
>|>>	Colbert
>|> 
>|> Otherwise, Colbert provided a lot
>|> of thrills for Padre fans during some LEAN years!  My favorite was the 
>|> day he socked 5 HR's in a doubleheader in Atlanta.  Still in the record book
>|> along with Stan-the-Man.
>
>In fact, I thought he did it in St Louis, with Stan at the game.  I listened
>to it on the radio, but that was a long time ago...

Oh, Dave, you've given me reason to tell my favorite childhood baseball
story!  Thanks, and here it is:

I was at Busch Stadium the day that Nate hit his 5 HR's in the DH at
Atlanta.  The scoreboard at Busch shows the scores for all the games that
day, and keeps a red light on the team batting while the game is in progress.
Well, by the time that the Cardinal game was over, Nate had 4 HR's in the DH,
and that red light had been on the SD for A LOOOONG TIME.  It was killing
me to think that the Padres might be having a rally and that Nate might
actually hit a 5th HR!  But, we had to leave the stadium without knowing.

That night on the news, we found out that Nate did get his 5th HR.  This
got quite a bit of coverage in St. Louis since it tied the feat of Stan
Musial.

What probably has you confused is that Nate Colbert was at the DH when
Musial hit his 5 HR's!!!

Also, I have a newspaper article about the day from a San Diego paper
that has a picture of Nate with his mother in St. Louis.

Ah, a good day in Padre history!

I got Nate's autograph a few year's ago while he was coaching for
Riverside (the Cal league Padre affiliate at the time).  He was looking good.

I've been quite saddened recently at the problems
that Nate has been having.  I don't know details (I'd rather only
remember the good on-field stuff), but I know it's been pretty bad
stuff.  I hope he gets thru it.

Thanks again for the call down memory lane :-)

Lynch "MOB"
From: yankees@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Kenneth M Gelfand)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: New York Announcers (was Re: The Mets' All-Time Team)
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:58:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <cf=DjMW00iV1456WE2@andrew.cmu.edu>, Josh S Linder <jl6p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
>A. I hate McCarver - the guy is a yutz and the only thing I respect
>Deion Sanders for doing is "ice bucketing" him.  My late grandfather was
>seriously questioning his like for the Mets when they hired Timmy.

         Hey, like McCarver or not, he didn't deserve the bucket.

> 
>B. The WPIX team is excellent, but was better with Bill White (those
>were the days when Tommy Hutton and Hank Greenberg were the WABC 770AM
>team).  Ah, yes, the losing Yankees of old.

        I disagree completely with your statements about WPIX today.
Phil Rizzuto is still the way he has always has been in the booth and
should be kept there forever.  Tom Seaver is the King of Overanalysis.
The gist of every statement is "He may be a good player, but he's not me."
This is true, but he doesn't have to shove it in my face for 6 innings.
Bobby Murcer would be an adequate "character" if Rizzuto wasn't there,
but almost everything he says seems to come from press clippings.  I
miss George Grande, who at least brought enthusiasm to the booth. And I
too long for the days of Bill White and the Scooter together (with Frank
Messer, now that was a fun trio).  On WABC, I think John Sterling is as
good as Greenwald (not Greenberg, the Detroit HOFer) but Michael Kaye
is severely lacking any enthusiasm and he should never have left
the Post.  His "See-Ya" calls on homers are fairly lame, especially
compared to Sterling's 

			"It is high....
			 It is far....
			 It is ........GONE, a home run for Pat Kelly!!!!"

C. Your quotes from Kiner are perfect.  "And it's the bottom of the
>ninth, with the home team leading."  (yeah, OK Ralphie, the bottom is
>the SECOND half of the inning, buddy).
> 
> 

	Let's just say that Ralph Kiner and Bob Murphy could open a butcher
shop based on the way they've handled some names.   And Rizzuto could 
campaign for the "Anti-National League" Association.


								Kenny G

We'll miss you Mel...come home soon..
Sayonara Jesse, I hear Mount Fuji is nice this time of year.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: All-Henderson Team;All-Jewish Team
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:08:33 GMT

In article <15DEC92.12341126@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>The latest issue of Elysian Fields Review (wonderful baseball magazine,
>by the way) has a cover story on Jews and baseball -- playing it,
>writing about it, etc.  They discuss Jewish players.  Unfortunately
>a friend of mine has absconded with the magazine and I can't refer
>to it...

>How about Ron Blomberg?  I seem to recall he had the nickname of
>"Superjew".  

That was Mike Epstein.

>I don't believe that John Lowenstein is Jewish.  Stop me if I'm
>wrong.  I think I read that in one of Tom Boswell's Oriole pieces.

Pity; my grandma was a Loewenstein...

Roger
From: campbell@rz-berlin.mpg.de
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All-time Red Sox team
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:07:52 +0100
Organization: Rechenzentrum MPG Berlin

In article <1992Dec12.230023.34715@watson.ibm.com>, mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:
> In article <1gba79INNhpv@fido.asd.sgi.com> coolidge@speaker.wpd.sgi.com (Don Coolidge) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.195508.23031@watson.ibm.com>, mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:
>>|> To sort of paper over the angst I've gotten from Lou Abbott's (I know, it's
>>|> It seems like there's a really good first team, but my bench is kind of
>>|> weak. Who am I forgetting?  	
>>|> SP  Cy Young
>>|> 	Roger Clemens
>>|> 	Lefty Grove
>>|> 	Smoky Joe Wood
>>|> 	Luis Tiant
>>
>>	Bill Monbouquette
>>	Bill Lee (well, occasionally. And for pure entertainment value!)
> 
> Actually, Lee was the next name on my list. He did win 17 three years in a
> row, no mean feat for a lefty in Fenway. I don't think I could take
> Monbouquette over any of those guys, 
> Tiant:                     Eckersley:          Lee
> Gallons of radioactive beagle excrement that will be buried: 34,000
> 	- Harper's Index, April 1991

How do Mel Parnell (another lefty) and Dick Radatz (Reliever on shitty teams)
stack up?
						Joe C.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Blue Jays-Gillick
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:23:34 GMT

In <1992Dec16.214836.4510@u.washington.edu> sgs@stein.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith) writes:

>In article <1992Dec16.210013.10713@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>>
>>Can you prove to me that in '92 the Jays would have won without Griffin?
>>(or Gaston or any other member of the team).  No you can't and until you can
>>prove it you cannot tell me that any member of the team was more important
>>than any other if importance is defined as being necessary to winning the WS. 

>What I'd like to know, Roger, is do you apply this same "reasoning" to
>other aspects of your life?  Do you honestly believe that your cigarette
>lighter was of equal importance to your drive train in getting you to

the functions or purposes of a cigarette lighter and the drive train are
not the same.  the cigarette lighter makes no claim that it contributes
to my safe arrival.  A better comparison is the tiny jet in my carburetor 
and the drive shaft.  I wouldn't have made it without either.

>work today? And throwing the lighter out and driving home doesn't prove
>anything about how the car worked this morning, as far as I can tell from
>your rules. Wouldn't any discussion about whether your car would have run 
>this morning without the lighter intact be nothing more than "idle 
>speculation?" 

>The car ran. The lighter was there. End of worthwhile discussion. Right,
>Roger?

Well yah, the car ran and I got home OK.  Should I consider a discussion
worthwhile that centred on whether the drive shaft or the carberutor jet 
was more important to my journey?  Furthermore, should I feel safer knowing
that I had the best jet and the best drive shaft before the journey while 
not even understanding that there is far more to the car than those 2 parts?

rm

-- 
roger maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: shimkus@athena.cs.uga.edu (Doc)
Subject: Re: Atlanta pitching
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:00:00 GMT

In article <texdude.724523154@cs1.bradley.edu> texdude@cs1.bradley.edu (Philip Allen) writes:
>
>I have to admit - the Braves rotation is one of the best I've seen
>in a long time.  But then, I thought the Reds had the best team I'd 
>seen in a long time too (last year).  =)
>
>I've seen a lot of people say, "Well, I think their better than <such
>and such> staff - because while all of the pitchers in <such and such>
>staff had excellent years, they all bombed when they were together."
>Well, we haven't seen how the Braves pitching will react to another
>pitcher.  And we haven't seen how Maddux will react to no longer being
>one of the only bright spots on a team.
>
>Just out of curiosity, who will be pitching in the opening game?  Cases
>could be made for both Maddux and Glavine.  Does anyone think that maybe
>there could be some hard feelings for the one who doesn't get picked?
>If Maddux starts, Glavine could see this as a message that he isn't the
>  Braves' number one pitcher anymore.
>If Glavine starts, Maddux could see this as a message that, although he
>  won the Cy Young, he isn't going to be their number one pitcher.
>
>Either way, one of the two is going to get "demoted". 
>
>
>But still - this rotation looks awfully scary.
>
>
>Phil Allen
>texdude@cs1.bradley.edu
>
>


Actually, I would be willing to put good money on Glavine starting game one.
This is quite simply a measure of seniority.  SOMEONE has to start Gme one, 
and Glavine has been with the team for quite a few years more than Maddux.
They have both won the Cy Young over the last two years.  So I would guess
Glavine, then Maddux, and I think that they are both mature enough to accept
whichever happens.  Of course, Bobby Cox could surprise everyone and give the
ball to John Smoltz on opening day. :)

Incedently, I am surprised that in all the talk about why Maddux went to the
Braves, no one has mentioned what I think was one of the biggest reasons of all:
Damon Berryhill.  Berryhill and Maddux were close friends in Chicago, and Maddux
said publicly that he wouldnt mind pitching to Berryhill again.

Food for thought. :)


+doc
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: joe carter and others
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:28:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: jhuvms.14DEC199211283410
Distribution: rec
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <92347.193459RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>, <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes...
>another thing: about this "rickey henderson is probably the most
>self-centered ballplayer ever" or some such...
> 
>the three statistics that most people think are the best (regardless
>of whether or not they are the best) in determining greatness of a
>player are batting average, runs batted in, and home runs.
> 
>an extremely self-centered person, in order to look good to the greatest
>number of people, would attempt to maximize these statistics, at the cost
>of his team, if necessary.
> 
>an extremely self-centered person would thus walk as little as possible.
>walking does not increase batting average; walking does not increase
>home runs; walking rarely increases runs batted in.  all walking does
>is help your team win games, and your teammates get runs batted in, which
>an extremely self-centered person would not care about.
> 
>i leave it to you to determine which of joe carter and rickey henderson is
>one of the best walkers ever, and which is a pathetic walker.
> 
>(obviously, rickey must have come to the plate 95 times with the bases
>loaded last year, and thus walked to get an rbi each time).

	One addition to this:  Often, the "ability" to walk is based on
a player's own philosophy, i.e. patience at the plate.  Just look at
every hispanic player who ever played the game, and notice how most of
them just do not walk (Oscar Azocar, where are you?).  Most of them,
when playing baseball in the streets while growing up, just try to hit
the ball, and this carries over to when they hit the majors; they still
believe that the object is to hit the ball.  I wouldn't say that selfishness
is the case for many players of Latin origin.  The fact that Devon White's
high school baseball coach never told him to stop swinging is a big factor
in his not walking; this was Devon's philosophy from growing up in Jamaica.
	I have no idea what Joe Carter's philosophy is, but it's probably
to maximize his own HR's and RBI's.  OK, you can call him selfish, and you're
probably right, too ...

>bob vesterman.
> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason A. Miller				|		Kill Tanana!
==============================================================================
"doctor8@Jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu"		|		"some doctor guy"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Devon had so much raw talent that I really tried not to stand in his way
 and give him any silly advice" - Paul Gordon, Devon's H.S. coach
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Mason/Maddux trade
Keywords: Mets, Padres
Organization: Pitzer College
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:06:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.212948.18288@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
>Subject: Re: Mason/Maddux trade
>Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:29:48 GMT
>Keywords: Mets, Padres
>In <18DEC199213242338@scsuc.ctstateu.edu> aboufadel@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (ABOUFADEL,E) writes:
>
>>I read in the papers today that the Mets trades pitchers Roger Mason and Mike 
>>Freitas to San Diego for pitcher Mike Maddux.
>
>>How did the Mets acquire Mason?  Didn't they sign him as a free agent a few 
>>weeks ago?  If that is the case, isn't it downright weird that they would or 
>>even could trade him away like that?
>
>Yes.  Yes.  Usually, you're not allowed to trade a player you sign until
>mid-season.  I assume that this was either a special circumstance or
>Mason approved the trade.
>
Is that really true?  You sign a player to a contract and then have to keep 
him?  I think that rule applies for draft picks signed (the Pete Incaviglia 
Rule, if memory serves), but I never heard this applied to free agents?
From: ism1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (IAN SETH MILLER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: BOGGS TO YANKS
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:07:43 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I heard a report saying Boggs has agreed to a three year 11 million dollar
deal with the Yankees.  With all the big salaries this season, 11 million
seems like a bargain.

    Ian
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Brian Dorsett (was Re: Who are these new Pirates ?)
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:41:03 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

by the way, the reds have dorsett now signe d to a minor league contract.

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz)
Subject: Re: Pirates self destruction
Organization: Johns Hopkins University - Homewood Academic Computing
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:12:49 GMT

Who is still one of the the best ever at getting out left-handed batters.
Don't be so upset.
Date: Friday, 11 Dec 1992 12:15:04 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: SABR national address and phone?
 <1992Dec10.171605.13959@panix.com> <1992Dec10.231658.16502@news2.cis.umn.edu>
 <1992Dec11.161722.29777@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>

what do you get out of being a member of sabr, besides being able to
say, "member of sabr since 1992" (and still be telling the truth)?

bob vesterman.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: Who are these new Pirates ?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:29:15 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-940]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu

In article <BzByJ3.Du4@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085f2wd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Theodore J Kury) writes...
> 
>Since the Pirates seem to be missing a cleanup hitter, these players all
>hit 4th in this many games for the Bisons:
> 
>Brian Dorsett        104

	What's the deal with Dorsett?  He had a pretty good looking season
for the Bisons but I've never heard any mention of him as a possible player
(at catcher or first). If I remember correctly he was a first round pick
a couple of years ago.  Why is he not being promoted (or am I just missing
it by living so far south).

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Boggs to Dodgers?  Nope, Yanks.
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:13:07 GMT

In article <1gm6ekINN5dv@caldera.usc.edu> dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala) writes:
>|> The rumor starter strikes again!  I wonder if Peter is going to start
>|> with his obnoxious trade of the week again!
>|> 
>|> Where there is interest in tinsletown for the services of Wade Boggs,
>|> every report I've read and heard has him going to Yankees.  Allegedly,
>|> Boggs is close to a three year deal that should be signed this week.
>
>I heard Boggs' agent on the radio last night saying that the Dodgers had
>an edge over the Yankees.  Of course, you never know if he really means this
>or if he is trying to get more money out of the Yankees.

Well, they got three years, eleven million out of said Yanks.

In other news, the Giants hired Dusty Baker as manager.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: jwc@netxcom.netx.com (Jeff Comer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Cost per win
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:16:36 GMT
Organization: The Chaos Bobs

More hot stove fodder.... This chart takes each of MLB's 26 teams, and lists
their payroll figures, their wins in 1992, and how much they paid for each win.
The salary figures are 2nd-hand; please advise if you see an error.

1992 Teams, Payrolls, Wins, and Cost-per-Win
--------------------------------------------

Team    '92 Payroll+Rank   Wins+Rank   CostPerWin+Rank
----    ----------------   ---------   ---------------
CLE     $ 9,323,339    1    76   16    $122,675.51   1
HOU     $14,816,500    2    81   13    $182,919.75   2
MTL     $16,050,854    3    87    9    $184,492.57   3
BAL     $23,863,719    4    89    8    $268,131.67   4
MIN     $27,112,834    8    90    6    $301,253.71   5
MIL     $29,953,168   12    92    5    $325,577.91   6
SD      $27,614,604    9    82   11    $336,763.46   7
TEX     $26,228,500    6    77   15    $340,629.87   8
ATL     $33,432,167   18    98    1    $341,144.56   9
STL     $28,689,502   11    82   11    $349,871.98  10
CHS     $30,155,333   13    86   10    $350,643.41  11
PHL     $25,351,334    5    70   24    $362,161.91  12
PIT     $35,668,647   21    96    2    $371,548.41  13
DET     $28,197,167   10    75   18    $375,962.23  14
CIN     $35,379,559   20    90    6    $393,106.21  15
SEA     $26,348,334    7    64   25    $411,692.72  16
CHC     $32,249,664   15    78   14    $413,457.23  17
KC      $31,968,586   14    72   20    $444,008.14  18
CAL     $32,584,670   16    72   20    $452,564.86  19
NYY     $34,902,292   19    76   16    $459,240.68  20
SF      $33,240,600   17    72   20    $461,675.00  21
OAK     $47,479,667   25    96    2    $494,579.86  22
TOR     $49,127,166   26    96    2    $511,741.31  23
BOS     $42,038,665   22    73   19    $575,872.12  24
NYM     $44,009,334   24    72   20    $611,240.75  25
LA      $42,050,166   23    63   26    $667,462.95  26

The number for each team is ranked with their brethren by the following -

  Payroll Rank is rated from 1 (cheapskates) to 26 (big spenders).
  Wins Rank is rated from 1 (champeens) to 26 (slugs).
  CostPerWin Rank is rated from 1 (most efficient) to 26 (most unfortunate).

The numbers would suggest that Atlanta spent their money most wisely and got 
the most for it, Minnesota and Milwaukee might improve a little through more
spending, Toronto and Oakland bought and paid for their titles, and that the 
Dodgers had better get a new accountant (or a new infield, whichever comes 
first).

-- 
Jeffrey W Comer * jwc@netx.com * 703-749-2369 (v) * 703-749-2375 (fax)
  "Tact is the ability to tell a man he has an open 
  mind when he really has a hole in his head."
-Anon
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz)
Subject: Re: Mattingly discussion, take 2.
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:52:27 GMT

I first became interested in baseball in the off-season between 87 and 88,
when Mattingly was coming off the last of this great years. He immediately
became my favorite player and still is despite his lean years.
One thing to remember: He has one the gold glove seven of his eight years
and the record for gold gloves by a first baseman is 8, held by George
Scott. Mattingly should break that record soon.
Despite his degrade in offense, he is still a great firstbaseman with a
strong presence on the field and in the clubhouse.
I say bat him third. With Williams and Boggs batting ahead of him, he is
going to have a lot more runners on base than he's had in the last few years.

Agreed, though, it's nice to see somebody in New York to have the balls to
criticize Mattingly.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball