From: arthur.marsh@f812.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is a certain type of music bad?
Date: 12 Oct 92 00:18:56 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

Original to: anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu.
On Wed 07 Oct at 22:21 anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu. (Claude W. Anderson),
via Kralizec 3:713/602 wrote:

 a> Today I got a very nice email message from Jeff Elbel 
 a> (guitarist/songwriter for Farewell to Juliet) in response 
 a> to my post last week.  
...
 a> Here is what he wrote:

> The problem lies in setting up a P.A. in a church auditorium which
> is a converted basketball gymnasium.  These structures are acoustically
> terrible, with all sorts of echo and feedback problems.  Intense noise.
> Why amplify at all, you may ask, what with all those rippity frackin
> noisy amplifiers?  The answer:  for a rock combo to play, there must be
> a balance among the instruments, and you CANNOT TURN DOWN DRUMS.  Therfore
> other instruments must be turned UP to a comparable volume.
> 
> Yes we were loud.  Darn loud.  Our drums were NOT miked.  Please try to
> believe me when I tell you I was concerned about this from the outset
> and tried to get our mix as QUIET as possible.  I also asked the pastor
> to recommend that people put cotton or tissue paper in their ears, if
> not ear plugs.  He apparently did not do this, as he had other things on
> his mind.

 a> So it's now clear to me that blasting us out was not the band's 
 a> intention. But still it happened, and it just happened to be the 
 a> most recent example on  my mind when I wrote a response to someone 
 a> else who complained about  concerts that assault the ears.  I 
 a> apologize if I came across as maligning this band.  That was not 
 a> my intention at all.  

Sorry if everyone already knows about this, but the following has helped in
a number of situations:

Get as much sound deadening material around the band as possible. E.G. the
band has a piece of carpet to play on (most drummers do this already). Room
dividers, cushions from lounge suites etc can be stacked besides the drummer
and behind the musicians' amplifiers to reduce echoing from the instruments
and instrument amps. The band then only hears the direct sound from their
instruments/amps without echoing to muddy the sound, plus whatever comes
back from the front of house PA, and the controlled output from the foldback
speakers. The foldback is probably better left without reverb/delay.

I agree that a gymnasium is one of the worst kind of venues to play.
Churches with large glass windows facing the front are also a problem. At
least with an acoustically dead venue one can equalise and add reverb/delay
synthetically.

 a> How can you "reach out" when no one knows what your words are?
 a> Please consider mixing your sound so that people can hear your 
 a> message.

Amen, although I can still enjoy listening to bands of the
Vengeance/Mortification/Deracination genre.

 a> I would be very interested in knowing what the lyrics of your songs 
 a> are.   And if they come across better on tape than live, I would 
 a> be glad to listen  to a demo tape.  

If you're playing in church, why not get the lyrics of the band's songs up
on the overhead projector? 

 a> Maybe what is really needed it a "loudness rating system" for concerts 
 a> so  that those who are interested in really hearing (during and 
 a> after the  concert) can be warned ahead of time. As a result of 
 a> our previous  experiences, my wife and kids decided not to risk 
 a> attending the Steve Camp  concert tomorrow.  That's a shame!  

The front of house sound also depends on the compression used. Properly
done, a band can sound "loud" without hurting anyone's ears. Also a
Tandy/Radio Shack sound level meter can give the mixer an idea of the dBA
reading front of house, and a reading which could be advertised as a
guideline on what to expect. 

 a> Unless others wish to continue the discussion, I will say no more on 
 a> this  "loudness" subject in r.m.c.  I think I caused enough trouble 
 a> already.

There was a discussion on this subject earlier this year in the CCMRADIO
conference on some Fido-technology bbs's, and I believe it was constructive,
as was the discussion here in r.m.c. Discussing the problems and possible
solutions here can equip us to help avoid arrangements where excessive sound
levels or bad acoustics/mixing would detract from a performance.

BTW, I believe that some bands need to work on their arrangements more
carefully so that the loud spots in the music drown out the vocals.

Email me at Arthur.Marsh@f812.n800.z3.fidonet.org if you want more
information about the CCMRADIO conference.

God bless,
 
Arthur.

--- msgedsq 2.1
 * Origin: Camelot Swamp MJCNA, Hawthorndene, Sth Australia (3:800/812)
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA