HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clive@mcdd1.uucp (Clive Backham)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Colour of sunglasses
Summary: Thanks to everyone
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:40:55 GMT
Organization: McDonnell Douglas,Hemel Hempstead,UK

> In <397@mx1> clive@mcdd1.uucp (that's me) writes:
> 
> > What colour sunglasses do you recommend to maximise contrast
> > on those dull, overcast days that flatten out all the shadows
> > and make it difficult to see the details of the surface?

Just wanted to thank everyone for their responses, both posted 
and e-mailed.

There is a very clear consensus among all of you that
yellow/amber/orange is the colour to go for.

A couple of people also suggested grey, but I already have some
grey shades, and haven't found them very effective.

- Clive    (mcdd1.uucp!clive@uknet.uucp)
From: dlumby@axion.bt.co.uk (Dave Lumby)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Anyone been to Solden or Obertauern (Austria) ?
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:38:57 GMT
Reply-To: dlumby@axion.bt.co.uk (Dave Lumby)
Organization: British Telecom Research Labs


I'm currently looking at possible resorts for a pre-Christmas ski trip to
Austria. For the past 3 years we've been to Mayrhofen during the week
immediately before Christmas and have had a great time. Whilst I like
Mayrhofen and would not mind going there again this year, a number of the
others in the party have expressed a wish to try a different resort but
still in Austria.

Reading the brochures and ski guide books two places that look well worth
considering are Obertauern and Solden/Hochsolden. I'd very much like to hear
of any personal experiences of skiing in either of these resorts,
particularly from anyone who has been to either area early in the skiing
season.

Most of the people in the group have +20 weeks of skiing experience.
However, we still all plan to take 6 full days of 4 hour instruction to
brush up our skiing prior to a longer ski trip in February. Therefore the
quality of the instruction in the selected resort is a prime consideration.

Any feedback on either area would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

	Dave

Dave Lumby, Software Maintene[e]ance Group, Software Technology Division, BT
Research Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, IP5 7RE, UK
Phone:  +44 473 642613
E-mail: dlumby@axion.bt.co.uk
"I don't mind valid criticism, as long as it doesn't come from other people"
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: jpenovic@encore.com (Jan Penovich)
Subject: UTAH question
Reply-To: jpenovic@encore.com
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:33:05 GMT


HI.  I'm pretty sure we're going skiing in Utah this winter,
and I was wondering if anyone knows of reputable rental agents
for condos.  We want to ski mainly at Alta, but condos
anywhere not too far from there would be great.

We definitly don't want to stay in Salt Lake City.  Night life
is not important, except that there should be decent
restaurants fairly close by.

I've never skied in Utah, so even though I've seen a map of
the area, I'm not really sure of what kind of stuff is near
each resort.

thanks for any info.
********************************************************************
TTFN,    ___           *   jpenovic@encore.com
      / /   /  /\   /  *   jpenovic@gould.UUCP
     / /___/  /  \ /   *   {allegra,ucf-cs}!uflorida!gould!jpenovich
/___/ /   /  /    /    *   {uunet,sun,pur-ee}!gould!jpenovich
                       *   Encore Computer Corp., Ft. Lauderdale, FL
*********************************************************************
From: jym@cruz.denver.sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: BAY AREA SKIERS INTERESTED IN JACKSON HOLE TRIP
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:07:19 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <92233.39976.6623630@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, 6623630@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
|> Any Bay Area Skiers interested in going to
|> Jackson Hole 1/30 - 2/6, 1993.  Please
|> send me e-mail!  Great Group price $719.00
|> includes r/t air, 5 day lift, condo!
|> Deposit required A.S.A.P........

I know where i won't be between 1/30 - 2/6.
What is a Bay Area skiers favorite whine????

There's too much powder!!!!!

jim t
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Knees. . .
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:16:17 GMT
	<1992Aug17.060358.6235@nezsdc.icl.co.nz>
	<1992Aug19.192843.3345@scubed.com> <19AUG92.17320198@enh.nist.gov>
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Distribution: all
Organization: ISSC Boulder

In article <19AUG92.17320198@enh.nist.gov> hudgens@enh.nist.gov writes:
>Which brings us to the question:  Do the new bindings that release straight
>up at the toe protect the knee in this "tail whack" scenario?  Are there any 
>statistics on older upward toe-release bindings (e.g., Look XM and Geze) 
>showing fewer ACL injuries?

Carl Ettlinger has received a number of grants to study just this.  It appears
that the upward release system help mostly with backward breaks of the lower
leg, not with ACL injuries.  It appears that the most capable defense against
such injuries is learning how (and when) to fall!
--
Steve Hultquist                          Open systems and networking specialist
ski bum, believer in the impossible                                ISSC Boulder
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:50:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Knees. . .
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

In rec.skiing, hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson) writes:

> While you can damage your knees with enough hard use
> it is more likely to occur in a fall.  

> A big danger is in backward twisting falls, where the torque
> [..] can tear the ligaments.

 Knees are interesting. Turns out you don't even need to fall. If you 
 apply the "backward twisting" motion (without falling) you can *still*
 blow your ligaments. I know. I did it. As a victim of ACL separation,
 one watched two other people blow their knees, and one who has worked
 on *many* knee injuries I offer the following interesting tidbits:

   - ACL separation can be *loud*. When I blew my knee I had just passed
     a woman. She heard it. I didn't even fall. When a buddy of mine
     blew his knee we were traversing across a very rutted hill. I was
     probably 6 feet away. *I* heard it.

   - ACL injuries don't require a steep hill or high speed. I worked on
     a woman who blew her ACL getting off of the East Broadway chair
     at Squaw. You'd need a long level to detect any slope at the top
     of that chair!

   - ACL injuries are not necessarily painful. Mine didn't really hurt
     so much as it just felt *wrong*. I knew something had happened, but
     I didn't know what it was. I skied to the bottom on one ski. Idiotic.
     I know better now!

   - My girlfriend blew her ACL in the air. She was on a race-course,
     missed a turn and flew out of a rut. Her leg shot out and she heard/
     felt the knee go when the leg extended. Bummer, even sliding through
     the finish her time would have put her in second, but she missed
     the gate!

 It's interesting to go into the patrol room in the morning and watch
 how many people are pulling out knee braces...


 ..glen
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: WHAT'S NEW FOR 92/93 at Colorado Ski Areas
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:22:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

I wrote:
>|> LaCroixs -- nice skis.  Tried them at Aspen.  Very light.

In article <1992Aug12.180843@is.morgan.com> sergei@is.morgan.com
(Sergei Poliakoff) writes:
>To tell the truth, they are not that great  really. In my usual
>predicament : steeply inclined skating rink or uggly agglomerations
>of "frozen granular" called moguls 

Fine and light for powder.  That what I ski for.
I decided that if I ever took a detail at WDC over winter, that I would
not take my skis back East.  Personal preference.  You guys back East can
have your slopes. 8^)

>|> I bet Bogner suits are okay until you need to take a dump.
>I fall in the named suit  more then I bargain for
>and SUIT seems to be doing just fine .  Next step - padded suit.
>|> I will stick with my climbing suit for skiing.
>|> Far more practical.
>Practicality is not an issue when the goal is to irk real skiers.

The OTHER kind of dump. #2.
Simulation: try ex-lax.
THAT is practicality. 8^)

>|> >Croissants - 
>Unfortunately, Vail is the only ski resort where one can procure a decent
>croissant this side of Alps : I love Vail if only for that.

Okay.

>Cheers, 

Kom-pi!
Shalom!

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: grant@clarinet.com (Grant Robinson)
Subject: Re: Knees. . .
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:09:51 GMT

In article <1340300@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker) writes:

[Glen blows his ACL]

[lady blows ACL getting off chairlift]

[Glen's girlfriend blows her ACL]

> It's interesting to go into the patrol room in the morning and watch
> how many people are pulling out knee braces...

So what's the moral of the story here?  If you ski long enough you'll blow
your ACL?

Any hope of preventing this?   Let me guess: fitness, skill, luck?
-- 
Grant Robinson -- ClariNet Communications Corp, Sunnyvale, CA (408)-296-0366
From: hkelly@edsr.eds.com (Kelly Shuldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Whistler, British Columbia
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:13:43 GMT
Organization: EDS Research


>>How can over 5000 feet of vertical ever be bad????

Well, let's see...how about over Lawrence, Kansas, without a parachute?

h. kelly shuldberg
hkelly@edsr.eds.com
Albuquerque, NM
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Buying First Skis
Date: 20 Aug 92 06:55:20 GMT
	<1992Aug20.070735.2518@osf.org>
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Distribution: all
Organization: ISSC Boulder

In article <1992Aug20.070735.2518@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
   In fact my last pair are 'knockin' on heavens door' but the new Salamon Monocoques look good, anyone know this ski ?

David, I've skied the 2S.  Very nice!  However, this years are different (they
changed from a foam to wood core, changed the flex and torsion characteristics,
etc.)!

   David.
--
Steve Hultquist                          Open systems and networking specialist
ski bum, believer in the impossible                                ISSC Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Subject: Re: yearly heliskiing note
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.
	<1992Aug12.212205.10346@nas.nasa.gov>
	<daved.713718294@convex.convex.com>
	<1992Aug13.165654.21434@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:17:50

In article <1992Aug13.165654.21434@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
   >In article <daved.713718294@convex.convex.com> daved@convex.com
   >(David Dorfman) writes:
   >>For a true perspective on Heli Skiing check the back issues
   >>of sports illustrated for a long article on heli skiing.

One man's perspective, I might add. The article was good, but the
conditions under which the reporter skiied were unusually heavy. CMH
was up in arms about the resulting fallout of having a client die when
reporters from SI *and* the Boston Globe were on assignment. Shit
happens, I suppose... (or shall I say "evolution in action" :-))

   > Heliskiing is not for the weak at heart.

  >> Still, I'd try it.

   > When one gets good enough, and if the price of fuel isn't too high, it's
   > not bad.      ^^^^^^^^^^^

My understanding was that many of the heliski runs were of Vail Back
Bowl variety [tm], i.e. gentle ego-builders for the well-heeled but
perhaps not particularly talented Bogner/LaCroix/croissant & espresso
set. :-) Of course one can choose one's own line, I suppose, though
possibly with severe consequences (see aforementioned SI article).
Even those runs that are "casual" looking can hold great danger, as
last year's *big* CMH disaster attests.  Anyone who skis the BC
*ought* to know this. 

   > It's obnoxious to X-C'ers in many areas 

Yeah, no shit. One of the best days of last years dismal season, we
were slowly making our way up Cardiac bowl when the PowderTurd helis
dumped a couple of dozen beaters right on the ridgeline we were headed
for. Some of those guys sucked so bad that the bomb craters they left
from their many falls completely wiped out the virgin run. Sheesh. 

   > and it will get even more interesting when it reaches $1,000 a day.

Skiing already being a "rich person's sport", it boggles the mind.

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@corona.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked




















Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Steamboat
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:48:06 GMT

>There.  I've said it. Now flame away.

Rats, I can't find it, but in the GBs I have out there I have the ASCII
Graphics of Flames.

Oh, BTW, Ski Vail.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: poahbear@leland.Stanford.EDU (David G Lawson)
Subject: Australian Skiing
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 02:24:51 GMT

  Does anyone know how late the season lasts in Australia?? I'll
 be there at the end of September. Too late?? Need a ski fix bad ...
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: focstea@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (CHRISTOPHER STEARNS)
Subject: Re: Knees. . .
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 13 Aug 1992 07:47 EST  

In article <-z4mzv+@lynx.unm.edu>, pams@triton.unm.edu (Roost) writes...
> 
>The only people I know that wear knee braces are ones that have already 
>injured knees.  I am wondering if it is beneficial to wear knee braces to 
>prevent injury in the first place?   If so, what brands, are they comfortable,
>wear under or over ski pants, etc. etc. etc.
> 
>                                                              Taos #1
>[_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*]
>      ______	       __	David P. Lawrence
>     _/   _)            _/_/	Computer Engineer   BDM International, Inc.
>    _/   _/  ____     _. ___(_/		Albuquerque, New Mexico
>   _/_____/_(_____(___(___\_/___/___(___)_\__	Account at University of New Mexico:
>				pams@triton.unm.edu
>"The meek will inherit the earth... The rest of us will go to the stars!" OMNI
>[_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*][_*]
>
I wouldn't bother with knee braces unless recommended by a doctor.  I have 
had two knee surgeries and was wearing the brace given to me by my first 
doctor after my first surgery when I tore the Anterior Cruciate Ligament in 
the same knee.  A brace can be beneficial, but if your knee is going to go, 
a brace isn't going to stop it.  The brace I was given after my second 
surgery was given to me with reluctance from my doctor (different doctor 
than the one who did the first surgery).  He eventually gave me the brace 
because of the sports I play and the high chance of collision with other 
athletes.  However, he told me that skiing puts your knees in their 
strongest position (providing your using proper form) they can be in and 
the chances of collision are much smaller (this may depend on where you ski 
B^).  I do not use the brace when I ski and again would advise that you 
talk to a doctor before spending the bucks for a brace (the brace I have 
now can only be provided through a perscription and cost ~$500 two years 
ago!).

Hope this helps!
Chris

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: grant@clarinet.com (Grant Robinson)
Subject: Re: yearly heliskiing note
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:47:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.142103.977@cbfsb.cb.att.com> bep1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (bentz.e.puryear) writes:

>I just got the new ski guide for Mike Wiegele heli skiing. The price for
>one week (7 days) the week of Jan2-9 is $3770.00 Canadian dollars. But you 
>have to add %7 for Canadian Goods and Services tax. 

You may want to check into getting the GST refunded.  The brochure I got
when I was in Canada recently said non-residents can get a refund if they
spend over $100 total, on most items.  (only exception I can remember was
restaurant meals). 

> This is unlimited vertical helicopter lift (the last week of this ski 
> season for this). The next week $4270.00 three weeks later $4600.00. 

That's strange, after the last week of the season, the prices go up!  Must
cost a million bucks to go in the summer :)
-- 
Grant Robinson -- ClariNet Communications Corp, Sunnyvale, CA (408)-296-0366
From: rwausti@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Richard Austin)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Where to stay in Park City
Keywords: Park City Cheap Lodging
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:30:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Great Beyond

Me and fifteen or so friends will be traveling to Park City, Utah
in the Feb, Mar '93 time frame and would like suggestions on where
to stay.  Looking for the most bang for the buck.  Also, can anyone
suggest package-deal providers (e.g. lift tickets, air fare, lodging)?

Thanks in advance (please send mail)

Rick Austin
Booz-Allen & Hamilton, Inc
rwausti@ncsc.mil
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Advice on Buying Ski Boots
Keywords: skiing ski boots
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:46:20 GMT

I just got my Ski '93 Buyer's Guide and am thinking about getting new
boots.  Frankly, I am happy with my old boots (they are only two seasons
old), but I suspect they are rated for the novice/recreational skier,
and I am planning on getting down White Heat this year :-).  Plus,
they are rear-entry, and it's beginning to look like that means "wimp" boots.

My question is this: can I consider buying kids boots?  I fit nicely
into a boy's 6.  I know that boy's shoes fit my square (read wide) feet 
better.  

I figure I can try boots on, but I'm wondering whether there is any real
reason to stay with adult boots.  Ski seemed to hint that some of the kid's 
boots were just smaller versions of their adult counterparts.

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: naz@sei.cmu.edu (Neal Zundel)
Subject: long hot summer
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:15:46 GMT

Can anyone recommend some cool ski movies?  It's been a long
summer and I have to appease myself with ski movies to get 
by.  So far I have been watching Ski School every night. Obviously,
I like the movie, but a little variety would never hurt!!

Thanks
-neal
From: hudgens@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: RE: Knees. . .
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:32:01 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, rankin@scubed.com (Tom Rankin) wrote:
> 
>If you should happen to land on your tails after being airborne, and your knee
>is perfectly (or nearly) straight, it is exposed to one of the highest risks
>for anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) damage.  In this situation, the skis want
>to slap down onto the snow.  Assuming you do not release from your toepiece,
>your boot will follow your ski to the snow.  The high back of the boot then
>imparts a forward force to the back of your calf...


Which brings us to the question:  Do the new bindings that release straight
up at the toe protect the knee in this "tail whack" scenario?  Are there any 
statistics on older upward toe-release bindings (e.g., Look XM and Geze) 
showing fewer ACL injuries?

I recognize that bindings cannot protect for the "phantom ski" scenario for
ACL injuries, but if ACL injuries for the "tail whack" scenario are eliminated 
by upward release bindings, it would seem that it would be reflected in 
some injury statistics.

Jeff Hudgens
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Breckenridge
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:19:40 GMT
Reply-To: <ssh@vnet.ibm.com>
Organization: ISSC Boulder

Any of you interested in knowing more about various ski areas in the US and
Canada would be well advised to pick up a copy of the September '92 issue of
Snow Country magazine (likely available at your local newsstand).  It has
information and "ratings" of all of the major reasorts in each region of the
US.  Also, the October issues of the other ski rags (notably SKI and SKIING)
are traditionally the travel issues with this kind of info.

Frankly, the good-natured bantering on this group notwithstanding, there really
isn't all that big a difference between the major western resorts.  If you're
looking for a particular atmosphere or particular kind of skiing, then perhaps.
However, if you're looking for a good time, decent skiing, and general fun,
take your pick.  If they weren't enjoyed by many people, they'd be out of
business.  Ski resorts are in a competitive business.

By the time you care about the differences, you know where to find what you
seek!
--
Steve Hultquist                          Open systems and networking specialist
ski bum, believer in the impossible                                ISSC Boulder
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: davids@gardener.lanl.gov (David Simmons)
Subject: Re: Steamboat
Originator: davids@feynman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:43:31 GMT


In article <1992Aug17.153724.20188@pmafire.inel.gov>, russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug13.203605.27137@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> >In article <1992Aug13.162022.1607@advtech.uswest.com>
|> >jsalmi@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (John Salmi) writes:
|> >>In article <SSH.92Aug13073254@snow.boulder.ibm.com>
|> ><ssh@vnet.ibm.com> writes:
|> >>>You're likely to *love* Steamboat...
|> >
|> >>>Steve Hultquist         
|> >>>"No, really, you don't want to ski Colorado..."
|> >>
|> >>no no no no.  Ski Vail.
|> >
|> >Okay, we have to get this right, present a united front.  Try to direct
|> >the people to individual resorts.  That way you can have your skiing and
|> >economy, too.
|> >
|> >Vail is a fine beautiful resort.  Good.
|> >Great job there Salmi.
|> >
|> >IF people HAVE TO GO TO UTAH, let them ski Deer Valley.  Or at worse
|> >Park City.  And make certain they get religious tracts.
|> >Idaho?  Where else?  Sun Valley. CA? (oh just about anywhere).
|> >I am certain the people on the East Coast can suggest some fine EC resorts.
|> >
|>  There is no skiing in Idaho at all.  Winter if off . . . right out. 
|> Extended drought and tropical weather has ended everything.  
|> 
|> However, Utah is great . . albeit a bit dry (beverage-wise).
|> 
|> But, best of all, ski Colorado.....anywhere.
|> 

New Mexico is also out.  third world country, unfriendly natives, and after
all, it *IS* a *desert*....

Ski Vail.
-- 

David G. Simmons
davids@lanl.gov

If I said it, LANL didn't... 

-- 

David G. Simmons
davids@lanl.gov

Newsgroups: rec.skiing