HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jess%miracle@merk.com (Shi'nayne)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ mrmrks and beating a dead horse ...
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:26:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.kFFTiB1w164w
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:

> 
> 
> >> And what do you propose as a subsitute for the 2% rule?  Without some
> >> requirements Mensa becomes just another generic social organization
> >> without the many benefits that It now offers it's members.
> >
> >Like what benefits?  Not having to interact with minority members?
> >
> >Scott Tai
> 
> Scott - I challenge you to show me where, in ANY documentation, there
> is a directive excluding minorities.

I second that motion!!

> 
> Most of the minorities I've talked with who are Mensa-eligible are not
> even aware of Mensa.  That's why Mensa has been advertising in magazines
> that minorities generally read.  If Mensa were out to exclude minorities,
> would we be doing this?
> 
Scott, if your last name is any indication, you yourself are part of a
minority, so what are you complaining for???


Jessica


Vampire Hunters Inc.
jess%miracle@merk.com
If you have vampire problems, call!!  We'll
stake your problem right through the heart!!
From: grohol@novavax.UUCP (John Grohol)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re^2: mrmrks and beating a dead horse ...
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:11:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: novavax.3608
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:

>=> My point was that intelligence, like many physical attributes, is
>=> not something an individual has a lot of control over -- it is 
>=> based primarily on hereditary and genetic factors.  Thus, to have
>=> a group solely for members with a certain IQ or test score amounts
>=> to nothing less than blatant discrimination.

Wrong. Read a few books published recently on intelligence.
This issue has hardly been settled in the minds of psychologists,
and to state otherwise is a blatant lie. I enjoy how you
support your articles posted here with opinion rather than
fact. It makes for good lunch-time reading.

I wonder why people insist on arguing from ignorance, Scott..

Is it because they couldn't get into Mensa?

-- 
 "And everybody used to hang around him.  ::  John M. Grohol, M.S.
  And I know why. They said:              ::  Cntr for Psychological Studies
  There but for the grace of the angels   ::  Nova Univ, Ft. Lauderdale, FL  
  go I." -- Laurie Anderson               ::  grohol@novavax.nova.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: /T/ I hate /T/
Reply-To: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 18:59:25 GMT


In article <35078@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, noonan@sonata.enet.dec.com (Costumes & Makeup & Kliegs, oh my!) writes:
|>In article <1992Apr8.231018.28108@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes...
|>>phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
|>> 
|>>> I have a question though.  Why the /T/'s it looks like that Scott Tai is
|>>> inserting them in his postings?  Does he want to see how much traffic he
|>>> is making?  Or does he want to make it easy to KILLFILE him?
|>> 
|>>Come on Mr. MENSA, even you should be able to figure this out!  Here's a hint:
|>>the T does NOT stand for Tai... :)
|>> 
|>>---------
|>>Scott Tai

maybe it stands for "twit"?

maybe it's a twittiness rating: /T/ is somewhat twitty, /T/T/ is twittier,
/T/T/T/T/T/T/T/ is an extremely twitty reply?

Hey, just noticed this could work great for killfiles.  You could kill
according to the twittiness level.  /T/ for any twit content, /T/T/ to kill
anything but the least twitty, /T/T/T/T/T/T/T/ to kill only the twittiest.

-Mike
From: dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: And the score is.....
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:38:52 GMT
Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>In 3rd place, with 11 postings, is David O'Hunt.

Gee - I'm IRISH???? :P

That's David O. (period) Hunt

Tee hee!
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Richard Barry Shrum)
Subject: Re: MCAT scores?
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr, Calif.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:18:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.195433.13724@uwm.edu> radcliff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David G Radcliffe) writes:
>mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
> 
>
>My feeling is that IQ tests, SAT's, etc. test irrelevant skills.
>For evidence of this, I need only point to Marilyn Vos "Idiot"
>Savant's column.  Does anybody seriously believe that she is the 
>smartest person in America?
>
>
>-- 
>David Radcliffe                                
>INTERNET: radcliff@csd4.csd.uwm.edu            
>BITNET:   radcliff%csd4.csd.uwm.edu@interbit 




I doubt it, has there been *any* record of an IQ being >200 as she claims?
I heard Jerry Lewis once say his IQ was 190, but I think he's full of sh*t.
Besides, I thought it was common knowledge that Lanny Poffo was the most
intelligent person on the face of the planet, as well as being the greatest
poet.

        R *****
         I
          C
     ***** K






Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 07:10:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.230335.8524@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, rmg53668@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ryan M. Grant) writes:
> Ok.  Im not in the top 1% of world brains, or in mensa - But I can figure out
Well!  Guess you're not really WORTH listening to!  (Smug Smiley Here)

> 	how to edit my postings.  U of I just got your newsgroup here, and I 
Oh.  Well, never mind.

> 	am expecting some interesting puzzles, arguments and discussions.  
Oh, sure.  We do that all the time.  Just not, um, today.  Yeah!  :-)

> 	Hopefully the arguments will be easily readable, and well edited, 
> 	because I will of course be devoting my brainpower to the task at hand,
Now, just how much brainpower do you have in reserve?  There's quite
a lot of, um, somewhat irrelevant stuff to sift through.

> 	and would rather not be trying to figure out who said what where, and
> 	where it has gone now.
Sorry.  Very sorry.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: fittery@arcturus.uucp (Elmer Fittery)
Subject: My experience with LA unified
Organization: Rockwell International
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 22:38:25 GMT

My son is fairly sharp, but because of things like money, time and other
considerations I put him in the LA Unified School Districts school near
my home.  It looked like a very nice small school with only about 500
students.  All in all the experience was displeasing to say the least.  The
teachers complained of no money to buy pencils (the students had to share
pencils, books, and paper).  I applied to put my child in the magnate
program, and because he scored well enough on their tests he was accepted.
BUT ---- their is a waiting list, and besides that, you didn't file your
request - therefore wait till next Febuary.  To make the story short, I
took him out of the LA Unified school district, paid my $350 a month and
now he is in a class with 5 students using text books from a forign country.
By the way, one of the main reasons his academics was so bad at the public
school was 40% of the students in his class didn't speak english.  The
teacher was spending all her time (well most of her time) working with the
students that needed it.  My son obviously didn't need it since he got A's
in work.  What the solution is to the U.S educational system illudes me,
but my solution for my sons education is simple.  Suck it up and work harder
make more money and put him in a school that expects and demands academic
students that needed 
nB
D
D

 
exellence.
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: On Mensa Bashing
Date: 2 Apr 92 06:11:49 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <14110@claris.com>, Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> In article <1992Mar29.132122.26684@kth.se>, tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes:
>> 
>> In article <34812@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:
>> 
>> >|>>> because you can be higly intelligent AND accepted by any social group,
>> >|>>>it's just how you behave
>> 
>> >|>>         Oh, well.  Very true.  As long as I don't act like I have a
>> >|>>         brain, I can be accepted.  I do believe that was the point I
>> >|>>         was attempting to make.
>> 
>> >|> nono, maybe I'm not being clear enough, but you're getting me wrong.
>> >|>I'm not stating you have to act dumb or forget your brains or nuttin;
>> >|>I just simply mean what I wrote... if I could refer to an earlier posting
>> >|>about some chick dating a dude, and she had to act stupid so he wouldn't
>> >|>feel like a complete dumb-ass -- now, is that intelligent or not to be-
>> >|>have so he feels okay or is it intelligent to behave so he feels a 
      jackass?
>> 
>> >Isn't this confirming what Ms. Noonan just said?   She has to act if she
>> >doesn't have a brain to be accepted?  Even if 'acting dumb' might be
>> >intelligent sometimes, it's still acting dumb...
>> 
>>  no, it is not.  [entertaining text deleted] 
> The problem is that what she is complaining about is when she asks "Do you
> believe in free will?" and the guy replies, "Huh? What about dem Mets?" (or
> whatever team or sport he likes)--or if she says "Let's go to the symphony
> this weekend," and he replies "Nah, lets sit at the pool and have a beer."
> In order to interact with him, she would have to "dumb down" if he were
> like the person in my examples.  It is not just a matter of avoiding high-
> brow, pendantic vocabulary; it is often a matter of subject-matter
> comprehension and/or interest.

How many guys out there would actually respond to such things in such a manner?
How many women out there would want to have anything to do with these guys
anyway?  Sure, there must be a few morons out there, but this is quite an
extreme example.  I am simply guessing that most men who are worth the effort
of an intelligent woman would have at least the slightest opinion of free
will.  As for the symphony, that's simply a matter of taste, not intelligence.
Still, only a rude moron would suggest the pool/beer alternative!  Not all
men are pigs, and not all people require "dumbing down".

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ehp@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU ("Didi Pancake")
Subject: Re: Monitoring the (800) #
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:48:11 GMT

>>In article <1992Apr6.190257.19167@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper) writes...
>>I called the 800 number shortly after the group started.  I didn't receive
>>anything until last Friday, so I guess they check for messages only
>>sporadically now.  They should monitor the line better or discontinue it.

Let's consider cutting a tad of slack here, friends. The American Mensa
Office has only a limited amount of staff. All dues are due on March 31
each year. Thus, during March and April, everybody in the office (and I
really do mean everybody) must spend 90% or more of their time processing
renewals to even faintly keep up with the flood. In that other 10% they
must try to do everything else that normally needs to get done, including
monitoring the (800) #. This is why the Office and LocSecs and Membership
Chairs et al. are always harping on getting people to renew early...to
spread out the load a little.

[And before someone starts in on "why don't they do it some other way?" I
personally know that they--the Office and the AMC--have investigated
other ways to handle membership dues and renewals. There are only a few
actual basic ways, and all have pros and cons just as this one does...no
point in changing until some combination of factors makes it particularly
advantageous to do so.]

While I don't object to checking with them on the matter, or even to
pointing out how it appears to people calling the (800) # when responses
are delayed, I would hope that Phil or anyone else who calls the Office
on this does it in as tactful a way as possible and in the spirit of
helpfulness rather than (as many Ms seem wont to do) in a automatic
spirit of antagonism. 

--
|  Didi Pancake         |       "There is a great, red cheeseball        |
|  ehp@virginia.edu     |       of insanity in this picnic basket."      |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  All the usual disclaimers about the origins of these opinions apply.  |
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/T/ Cattell Culture Fair Test
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:00:33 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>David O Hunt <dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>>>>I'm curious why the Cattell score required is significantly higher 
>>>>( > 15 points) than for any other IQ tests.

>>>Could it possibly be that the scales are different?  Just perchance????

>>You tell me; I'm asking.  (Didn't you criticize me earlier for posting
>>'opinions not supported by fact' to this newsgroup?)

> My comment was in response to the tone of your posting (most of which
> you've deleted).  

Actually, I WAS responding to David O'Hunt's post...

AND, I did NOT delete anything from the original post! Here it is again,
if you don't believe me: 

> Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
> Path: taco!ailab.ncsu.edu!tai
> From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
> Subject: /T/ Cattell Culture Fair Test
> Message-ID: <1992Apr6.175559.25990@ncsu.edu>
> Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
> Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
> Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:55:59 GMT

> phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
> >tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
> >>phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
> >>
> >>> Nonsense!  Mensa discriminates on test scores ONLY.  There are many tests
> >>> that are fair to race.  Most of them in fact!  There have even been many
> >>> developed SPECIFICALLY for different races.  Mensa will accept these test
> >>> scores.
> >>
> >>Like?

> >Like the Cattell Culture Fair test to name one.

> [ MENSA test score requirements ]

>  California Test of Mental Maturity                     IQ 132
>  (California) Test of Cognitive Skills                  IQ 132
>  Cattell                                                IQ 148
>  ^^^^^^^                                                ^^^^^^
>  [...]
>  Stanford Binet, Form L-M                               IQ 132
>  Wechler Adult and Children Scales
>      (WAIS and WAIS-R, WISC and WISC-R)                 IQ 130
>  Otis-Lennon Tests                                      IQ 132
>  Otis-Gamma Test                                        IQ 131
> 
> I'm curious why the Cattell score required is significantly higher 
> ( > 15 points) than for any other IQ tests.

> ---------
> Scott Tai

Please check your facts before posting again.

---------
Scott Tai
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Subject: /T/ Cattell Culture Fair Test
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:55:59 GMT

phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
>tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>>phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) writes:
>>
>>> Nonsense!  Mensa discriminates on test scores ONLY.  There are many tests
>>> that are fair to race.  Most of them in fact!  There have even been many
>>> developed SPECIFICALLY for different races.  Mensa will accept these test
>>> scores.
>>
>>Like?

>Like the Cattell Culture Fair test to name one.

[ MENSA test score requirements ]

 California Test of Mental Maturity                     IQ 132
 (California) Test of Cognitive Skills                  IQ 132
 Cattell                                                IQ 148
 ^^^^^^^                                                ^^^^^^
 [...]
 Stanford Binet, Form L-M                               IQ 132
 Wechler Adult and Children Scales
     (WAIS and WAIS-R, WISC and WISC-R)                 IQ 130
 Otis-Lennon Tests                                      IQ 132
 Otis-Gamma Test                                        IQ 131

I'm curious why the Cattell score required is significantly higher 
( > 15 points) than for any other IQ tests.

---------
Scott Tai
From: hollombe@soldev.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Rebuttal
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:42:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttidca.34357
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Apr7.030138.19000@watmath.waterloo.edu> alopez-o@neumann.waterloo.edu (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:
}
}How about writting an extensive reply arguing why mensa does not discriminate 
}by excluding 98% of the population? 
}
}I'm certain it will stop any more bozos for a while.

I take it you're new to the net.  The only thing that stops the bozos is
ignoring them.  Any argument, no matter how rational, logical and
obviously correct, will only encourage them to flame some more.  They
aren't interested in truth.  They're only interested in feeding their
egos by aggravating us.

Use your KILL file.  Ignore them and they will go away.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Re^2: mrmrks and beating a dead horse ...
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:45:28 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Sue Miller writes about "Re: Re^2: mrmrks and beating a dead horse ..." to All
 [11 Apr 92 13:13]

>I wonder why people insist on arguing from ignorance, Scott..
>
>Is it because they couldn't get into Mensa?
SM>  I *hate* this phrase. Hate it hate it hate it.

Come on, Sue; tell us what you really think about it.  :-)

BTW, a bunch of people back where you came from told me to say "Hi" to you if
you stopped by here again.  So, "Hi" from all of those people.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Tai's Lies
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:11:24 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "Tai's Lies" to All  [05 Apr 92 23:54]

> Scott, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW????  You arn't a memeber of Mensa, nor have
> you ever attended a Mensa function.

ST>  How do you know if I've attended? Don't assume anything... 

Because you have evaded answering the question.  If you had ever attended a
Mensa function, you would have been sure to mention it as proof that you had
insight to what Mensa is.  Actually, if you now say that you have ever been
to a Mensa function, I wouldn't believe you because you have proven yourself
over and over to be a liar.

ST> Come back when you can offer some concrete facts to the group. 

You come back when you can offer some concrete facts to the group.  You haven't
offered any concrete facts since you started you tirade of lies here.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: colinr@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Colin Rose)
Subject: IQ Statistics und SAT, GRE, GMAT
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:24:20 GMT

           RE: IQ Distribution and SAT, GRE etc

I am modelling the distribution of IQ at selective universities, where
selective embodies SAT, GRE and I guess IQ tests. Does anyone have
figures relating SAT, GRE or GMAT test scores with IQ scores. The 
modelling is being done with Mathematica, and is to be published soon
in a book on Mathematica, so it is quite important that the given numbers
are accurate. 

After searching through over a thousand messages in this group,
I have managed to glean that IQ is the normal random variable with
mean of 100 (by convention), and standard deviation somewhere
around 20. If mensa membership is restricted to the top 2% of the 
distribution, then these figures imply that the entry criterion to
mensa is an IQ of 141. Is this the actual figure? I recall seeing a
figure of 136 somewhere, and 132 somewhere else. If you can tell me the
entry requirement, and if mensa IS restricted to the top 2%
of the population, then I can work out the implied standard deviation.

All help most appreciated.


Colin

Colin Rose
Dept. of Economics
University of Sydney
colinr@extro.ucc.su.oz.au
*************************

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: craig@grad04.math.ncsu.edu (Ralph Craig)
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Jump in GRE Score
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:22:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.003643.27016@spool.cs.wisc.edu> zack@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Zack Xu) writes:
>
>    On 3/25's Wall Street Journal, there's a front-page article about
>a case where a family sued ETS (Educational Testing Service which makes
>all the standardized tests, e.g. SAT, GRE).
>
>    Here's the story.  A high-school guy in New Jersey took his first
>SAT in May of 1990(?), he only got 660 as the combined score.  Then
>he took SAT again in November, and he scored 400 more points, around
>1050.  But ETS refused to release his score and suspected he somehow
>cheated the second time.  Their only reason for suspicion: it's not
>plausible for someone's score to jump 400 more points.  The article 
>also reported that every year there are about 100 people whose SAT scores
>are refused to be released due to a jump of 350 points or more.  For
>more details, please read the newspaper article.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    My question is:  have any of you had such an experience?  like score
>> 350 points on an ETS exam than the previous time you took it.  What
>happened?  Did they release your score, or offered to give you a full
>refund.  Does ETS has this rule that one's score shall not be released if
>(s)he scored 350 points lower the previous time?  
>
>    If they do have this rule, is there a time limit?  I'd think it's
>perfectly possible for one's score to jump > 350 points after > 1 year. 
>
>    Any comments on this??  
>
	When I took the SAT in 10th grade, my score was 1210.  Although
this was pretty good for my high school, I wasn't satisfied.  I studied
the hell out of one of those "Prepare for the SAT" computer packages and
when I took the SAT during my senior year I scored a 1510, with most of
the improvement in the verbal category (I learned a lot of neat new 
vocabulary words in the month before the test.)
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/ Mensa Frauds Exposed - Fraud #1
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:03:40 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "/T/T/ Mensa Frauds Exposed - Fraud #1" to All  [06 Apr
92 21:47]

ST> As I stated above, MENSA has never explicitly claimed that these 
ST> tests are the equivalent. However, they imply that they are, 
ST> by accepting them as entrance requirements.

Wrong!  Mensa says that they correlate; not that they are equivalent.  You have
have inferred that Mensa claims that they are equivalent, but your inference
is wrong.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa