From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: WHO is a Catholic... (formerly: Hello?)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:51:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.044848.19484@cs.rose-hulman.edu> sienerbc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu "Chuck" writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.020306.19326@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David  
>Knapp) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr3.224638.29561@cs.rose-hulman.edu>  
>sienerbc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu "Chuck" writes:
>> >In article <1992Apr2.213039.3268@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU  
>> >(David Knapp) writes:
>> >> 
>> >> I just spoke with the pope, who just got off the line with God, and they
>> >> both agree that it would be a good idea for you to post THE criteria
>> >> for being a bona fide Catholic. I am sure that all Catholics would be
>> >> glad to hear what they should be doing to be *real* Catholics.
>> >
>> >Well, one of the undisputed criterion for being a member of society is
>> >you can not murder other members (no association intended with fetus).
>> >As well, one of the undisputed criterion for being a member of Catholicism
>> >is to accept that abortion is wrong. 
>> 
>> Except for the fact that this *is* disputable. It is hard for me to believe 
>> if a 'CAtholic' is a 'Catholic' in every word and deed *besides* their
>> view as pro-choice, that he is now not Catholic.  Indeed, if it is a 
>> requirement that every person who wants to be a "CAtholic" ascribe totally,
>> completely, and unceasingly to the doctrine and dogma of Catholicism,
>> there *aren't* any Catholics. You are saying that if a "Catholic" does 
>> one thing against the official dogma that they are not now Catholic? This
>> is ridiculous, and I am sure that the "Catholics" (what I and they call
>> them) would find that to be totally absurd.
>
>This makes a lot of sense, but I have one problem with it.  Even if a murderer
>is perfect all his life except for killing one person, he is thrown into jail.
>That is usually how it goes.  Also, he has become a "non-member" of society;
>otherwise, it shouldn't be necessary to *reform* that person when he
>*re-enters* society.


What does this have to do with being a Catholic?  How do murderers fit in?

>
>> > I don't think it necessary that I
>> >list all of the criterion since we are only discussing abortion.  However,
>> >if you insist, they are in the bible "The Ten Commandments"
>> 
>> So if one does not follow the ten commandments to the 'tee', they are not,
>> then Catholic?
>
>I wouldn't want you to interpret it that way.  In a previous post, I once said
>that a person has to know and realize when he/she is wrong.  If one says he is
>right (saying to the Church, "The Church is wrong"), then he/she is choosing to
>lead himself/herself and is removing him/herself from the Church. 

Lead, sure, does this mean they "are not Catholic" though?

> I also said
>in a previous post that if one at least realizes when one is sinning, and
>doesn't say, "I am right because I am doing what I want to do," then one is
>headed in the right direction.  They will admit these as wrong-doings to the
>Church.


But are they a "Catholic".  It was first posted that anyone who believed 
abortion was ok, was *not*, and *could not* be Catholic.


>
>> >(Note:  They are not meant to be taken word for word as in the bible.
>> >The Catholic Church utilizes them to *interpret* the morality of things.)
>> >
>> Ah...
>> 
>> 
>> Were you Catholic at one time? How do you know so much about Catholicism?
>
>As you believe, I went through 12 years of Catholic education because my
>parents sent me there.  Personally, I don't know exactly what to *believe*,
>but I do understand the Church's viewpoints on the matter.  Unfortunately,
>I don't know quite as much about all of the other religions in the world--
>only a little.


Same here.

-- 

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Corrected .sig for those who did not see the absurdity of the original one.
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Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion