HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Minh Lang <minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Bad cops - a perfect example
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:23:18 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:16:32 GMT

In article <cm=rr9f@dixie.com> John De Armond, jgd@dixie.com writes:
>>In article <cm=rr9f@dixie.com> John De Armond, jgd@dixie.com writes:
>rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
>
>>My brother is a cop in Phoenix. 
...
>>My brother once followed a guy for 5 blocks, waiting for him to 
>>screw up.  The guy apparently saw him following so he didn't do
>>anything wrong.  When my brother got tired of waiting, he pulled
>>him over anyway. 

...

>This came from rec.guns but the proper followup belongs here.
>Here is a perfect example of the kind of pigs that give them all a bad
>name.  And this guy thinks it's funny.  Maybe one of his belligerant
>victims will put one right between his eyes one day.

I  agree.

  == Minh ==
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi (Henri R Helanto)
Subject: Re: The basic problem with anti-gun nuts.
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 19 Dec 92 06:03:03 GMT

In <1992Dec16.000100.22277@cs.mun.ca> robin2@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Robin Collier) writes:

<stuff deleted>
>may have in your neck of the woods, since not even the police carry guns
>here.  But mind you, they can do some real damage with a baton.  
>Thats Right!  The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary is the only police
>force in North America that doesn't carry arms.

	I'm not really aware of the crime rate there, but I'd really
	like to see how a cop with a aluminium/carbon-fiber pipe
	arrests an armed criminal...   
	It doesn't matter whether the police around there carries a
	gun, criminals will. I hope they have at least vests.

-Henri

-- 
Henri Helanto - SysOp
hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi m40176m@puukko.hut.fi
Call MyBBS (+358-0-485067/485068/485968/485918/488139, 24h) !
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Mail Order SKS
Date: 17 Dec 1992 21:57:30 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec17.191002.27745@news.columbia.edu>, pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet) writes:

> >>and there are no restrictions on gun purchases in Montana,
> >>the Massachusetts FID requirement apparently didn't apply; only
> >>Massachusetts residents need FIDs.  

> >>At least that's how the gun store owner interpreted the regulations,
> >>and as far as I know, MA officials haven't challenged that
> >>interpretation.

> >>The NRA, however, has, and claims that as a student, the guy should
> >>have been considered a Mass. resident.

> >So if one state requires an
> >ID card as Mass does, the buyer must have that FID card.  

> I believe that in addition to the above, one is only allowed to purchase
> long guns in states that border on the state of one's residence, and
> since Montana is not in the group NH, VT, NY, CT, or RI, this condition
> was not met either.

The bordering state rule is correct.  If you live in a bordering state,
a MA dealer has to require only whatever ID that state requires.  If you
don't live in a bordering state, you can't buy AT ALL.  (For the Carmen
Sandiego impaired, Montana and Massachusetts aren't bordering states.)

Now, as a student, this guy could have easily applied to his local chief 
for an FID card as a technical resident of MA.  And he probably would 
have gotten it, since about all you need is a clean record and a small 
denomination bill, and acording to the wire services this guy had no
problems with either.

So the fact that he had no FID is probably neither here nor there - though
the fact(?) that he paid $300 for a rifle selling for about $115 in his
area makes one wonder what else was involved in this case.

Massachusetts law also does not permit firearms on campus without written
permission from the school -- though I'm fuzzy as to whether that law
applies to all guns or just handguns.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

From: Mark.Hockings@f824.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Mark Hockings)
Sender: NewsMeisterII@mcws.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:33:37 -0500 
From: Seth Adam Eliot <se08+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: libertarians, Somala, and guns

The argument about the innefectiveness of Somalia to protect human
rights as an example of the failure of the libertarian ideal misses the
point completely.

Libertarians are NOT anarchists (although some might say they are
"minarchists").  Libertarians recognize the proper place and use of
government as a body that protects the rights of the individual (or
entity) from other individuals (or entities).  A libertarian goverment
WOULD maintain a police force to protect people from robbery, assault,
rape, and murder.  What it would NOT do is interfere in between any two
indivduals (or entities) entering into contract, such as to purchase a
gun, or build a factory.

"*but someone with a gun might HURT somebody*  might whine the leftist
inclined."
    That is why HURTING SOMEONE IS ILLEGAL -- but owning a gun should NOT be.

"*but they might hurt themselves, who's going to protect them from
themselves* might bleat the Naderist safety Nazis."
    Stupidity is NOT illegal -- the stupid either wise up or eventually
pay the price for their actions.

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"Why am I dangerous?...
                    ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh

Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                              Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
------------------------------|
From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Crime prevention by citizens
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:16:05 GMT
Reply-To: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


A while back someone was talking about posting news reports of legally armed 
citizens preventing crimes.  If this has occurred, I missed the messages,
but I sure could use some verifiable accounts of recent instances, as
a couple of anti-gun nuts on my local BBS have taken to posting reports
of every firearm homicide they can dig up, and I would like to respond
in kind, to restore perspective.

Thanks.

-- 
******************************************************************************
The opinions expressed by the author are insightful, intelligent and very
carefully thought out.  It is therefore unlikely that they are shared by the
University of Iowa or Case Western Reserve University.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Subject: Re: Bad cops - a perfect example
Reply-To: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:34:12 GMT

In article rr9f@dixie.com, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
>This came from rec.guns but the proper followup belongs here.
>Here is a perfect example of the kind of pigs that give them all a bad
>name.  And this guy thinks it's funny.  Maybe one of his belligerant
>victims will put one right between his eyes one day.
>
>John
>-- 
>John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
>Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
>Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
>jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
>Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.


May I point out that John seems to believe deadly force is an acceptable
response to recieving a traffic ticket.  Seems to me that this is the type
of person that has made traffic stops such a stressful and potentially
dangerous experience for all of us, police and civilian alike.

Dana Rigg
Chander, AZ.
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:26:31 GMT
Reply-To: m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY)
Followup-To: dev\null
Organization: The Next Challenge, Fairfax, Va.


David, considering the fact that PKP has refused to even talk about
granting a license for PGP, and was negotiating in bad faith with the
writer of PGP, I don't see apologists like you having much in the way
of the moral high ground either.

How about we stop the flame-fest?

Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-A  NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"
Commandant and Acting President, Northern Virginia Free Militia
Send e-mail for an application and more information
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Whether the authorities be invaders or merely local tyrants, the 
effect of such [gun] laws is to place the individual at the mercy of 
the state, unable to resist."
       - Robert Heinlein, in a 1949 letter concerning "Red Planet"
-- 
The Next Challenge - Public Access Unix in Northern Va. - Washington D.C.
703-803-0391 To log in for trial and account info.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead)
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:23:16 GMT

masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:

> Since the deceased cannot tell anything, we can never conclude what
>he was thinking, how he was understanding or why he did what he did.
>It is also impossible to exculde the possibility that he did not
>realize that he was visiting a wrong place as an unexpected "criminal"
>or that the gun aiming at him was a real one.

I think Michiaki has a very good point here.  After all, the kid WAS
going to a Halloween party, and may have thought that Peairs was somebody
acting in character.

 >An undercover cop disguises himself as a street gang, pulls a gun, aims
>at a Japanese and shouts, "Freeze!" on the street. 

> The Japanese thinks that he is a real gangster.
>(Many Japanese who visits the US are told by fellow Japanese that if we want
>to reduce the possibility to get hurt, we should not resist a robber but
>should give him cash instead. Therefore,...)
>The Japanese starts to search for cash in his pocket. However, he is so upset
>and cannot remember where he has his wallet. He puts his shaking hand in his
>trouser pocket. No, not here...

> The cop thinks that the Japanese is trying to pull a gun and says again,
>"Freeze!"

> Being yelled at by the "robber", the Japanese gets more scared and upset and 
>try to find cash more quickly. He finds his wallet in the chest pocket of his
>jacket and pulls it out...

> The cop pulls the trigger thinking that the Japanese is going to shoot him.

> The Japanese falls down with a wallet in his right hand...

> The undercover cop approaches to the body of the Japanese.

> Another cop in the uniform comes and finds a "criminal" with a gun approaching
>to a body. Then, .....

>   [FIN]

>  Sorry for too much imagination...


No need to apologize.  This scenario is chillingly realistic.  And the sad
thing is that the cop would get away with it.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: Andy Freeman vs Random House Dictionary (was: Nabbing a car thief)
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:21:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.011745.6874@Cadence.COM>, vince@cadence.com
(Vince Gibboni) writes:

> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
> > (Scot Thorstad) writes:
> >
> >>  The 1984 (latest edition) of the Random House dictionary defines
> >> Saturday Night Special as "a cheap, small caliber handgun that is
> >> easily obtainable" of whiich there are many around. 
> >
> > The Random House Dictionary is wrong on this one.  They often lack the
> > technical knowledge to "define" terms and go with something that
> > sounds good, but is wrong or basically meaningless.
> 
>     Nonsense. Random House is dead right on this one (BTW, 1984 is not the
>     latest edition).

That's funny, my Webster's claims that SNS is *SLANG*.  Slang generally
means that the word is not commonly accepted as a word (or definition).

> I have total incontrovertable proof of this: J.J. gave
>     this definition of "saturday night special" in episode of "Good Times".

And obviously J.J. is a linguist....  (and knows more than the folks
who compiled Webster's Dictionary).

>     Okay, not good enough for you ? Well, how about the Lynyrd Skynyrd song 
>     "Saturday Night Special"; I can't actually remember much (many?) of the 
>     lyrics right now, but clearly their definition of Saturday Night Special 
>     was very similar to that of Random House.

Lynyrd Skynyrd doesn't give a definition at all resembling the Random
House definition.  They base their judgement entirely on *APPEARANCE* 
("...got a barrel that's blue and gold...").   This is what all bigots
do, they base their opinions on appearance.

Do me a favor...  Go down to your local gunshop and ask to buy a "Saturday
Night Special" (after all, if the *exist*, you ought to be able to purchase
one).  After you can't find one, ask your local dealer to explain firearms
to you...  I constantly hear about these "cheap SNS's", but no-one has ever
given me a solid example (inexpensive does not necessarily mean "poorly built"
or "unsafe").

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser
Xref: sparky talk.politics.guns:25172 soc.culture.japan:12312
From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Rikiya Asano and blatant namism (racism by another name)
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:02:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.wf=3yJq00iV145CS8R
	<9212131063@ritz.mordor.com>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Mr. Jack Nguyen writes:

>I am disgusted by this person, especially since he claims to
>"love" my country.  I feel like throwing up.  I honestly wish
>the sysadmins at CMU would see some of his vile material and
>pull his account.  I'm sick of his David Duke in a twinkie
>costume attitude.  Perhaps, if enough people put this person
>in their kill file he will become bored with the silence and
>go away...

Actually, I am bored. Somehow this does not go along with my ceramics
and glasses finals. So, I will cease to the format that I am currently
using. I have 
many Vietnam friends so, one Vietnamese is as individual as the other.
Even, now C. Tran is watching as I am writing this to you'll. I was
about to ask him to speak in your native tongue but why should he get
involved in this. I can handled it by myself!! As for the "love" of your
country: I love the Vietnamese people and I love North Vietnam as a
country. South Vietnam is O.K.! I have no negative feelings toward S.
Vie^t nam but I just happen to "love" the North! And, let me add before
ya'll say that I'm a Communist. (and, you may quote me on this on) That
I think that Capitalism is the same as Communism. And, let me add
that both are an Ideology. If, democracy and capitalism or communism is
the highest form of government that we as human are domed. Now for the
new programming!  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: ice@socrates.umd.edu (Fredrik Nyman)
Subject: Re: Mail Order SKS
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:17:35 GMT

<JCEHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>   According the piece in today's New York Times he purchased the SKS
>on Monday in Pittsfield, Mass.  The Times calls the SKS a modified
>AK 47 and labels the gun an "Assault rifle" several times in the article.

>  My questions is did this young man comply with Massachusett's rather
>strict firearms laws?  Did he have a Mass FID?  If not, how did he
>legally purchase the gun?

That's being debated as we speak.
The guy did indeed buy the SKS in a gun store.  Since he is a Montana
resident, and there are no restrictions on gun purchases in Montana,
the Massachusetts FID requirement apparently didn't apply; only
Massachusetts residents need FIDs.  This is, of course, if the buyer
can legally buy the same gun in his home state, which was the case
here.

At least that's how the gun store owner interpreted the regulations,
and as far as I know, MA officials haven't challenged that
interpretation.

The NRA, however, has, and claims that as a student, the guy should
have been considered a Mass. resident.

I don't know who is right.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Guns, Registration, and the Second Amendment
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 10:13:04 GMT

In article <iN2NVB2w164w@upchrch.UUCP> joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
}> Uh, unless you agree with (thankfully) Ex-justice Burger that the 
}> 9th and 10th amendments are "dog meat", you are absolutely incorrect.
}> Nothing in the constitution reserves to the state the right to 
}> drive a car or regulate same.  Therefore since the right is not 
}> reserved for the government, it belongs to the people.

Actually, I noticed a problem with the explanation of the 9th amendment
above, and was unable to determine its proper attribution, except that
Joel only replied to it.

However, it's incorrect to say that there are any "rights" "reserved for
the government."  No rights are possessed by the US government, only
powers, just and unjust, delegated and usurped.  The 10th amendment covers
how its just powers are reserved to those expicitly delegated to it and
enumerated in the Constitution.  The rest are reserved to the States, and
those not enumerated in the State constitutions are reserved to the People.

Ratification hinged upon a dispute between the Federalists (lead by Hamilton,
Madison, and another whose name I don't recall) and the Anti-Federalists,
led by Patrick Henry and others.  The relevance to the 9th amendment is that
the Anti-feds insisted upon a Bill of Rights to explicitly protect the most
important civil rights, especially those that had been violated by England
in its prosecution of the late war against the Revolutionaries.  The
Federalists had no objection to the protection of these rights, but feared,
unfortunately with much accuracy, that the enumeration of some rights would
be taken to be the abandonment of any protection of those not enumerated.
They insisted that since the Federal government had no enumerated power to
violate these rights, that enumerating some would be at best superfluous.

Be that as it may, James Madison became convinced of the necessity for
a Bill of Rights, and authored both the 9th and 10th amendments.  The 9th
states that while some rights are enumerated in the Bill of Rights, those
not enumerated exist, too, and those enumerated shall not be construed so as
to deny or disparage the unenumerated.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,soc.men
From: fiedler@netcom.com (Dragon (David Fiedler))
Subject: Re: Black Leaders
Organization: InfoPro Systems: Writers, Consultants, and Dragons
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:12:01 GMT

lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:

>In article <f6=rb6=@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>>lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes:
>>
>>>All politicians do this.  I don't see much of Thomas Sowell or Walter
>>>Williams in the media either.  Williams was on Crossfire or some such show
>>>a while ago, but only as a guest.  I'd love to see him on as a regular.
>>
>>Anyone know where to reliably read these two fellows?

>The local "African America interest" newspaper, the Call & Post, has
>Williams all the time.  Maybe there is a similar paper in your area.

The Sacramento Union, a conservative daily struggling against the
cutthroat practices of the sweet liberal Sacramento Bee (example: giving
discounts to advertisers who boycott the Union, and hijacking syndicated
comic strips), regularly  carries both.
-- 
David Fiedler       UUCP:{ames,mrspoc,hoptoad}!infopro!david        AIR: N3717R
"The future is tekon"     Internet: fiedler@netcom.com or david@infopro.com
USMail:InfoPro Systems, PO Box 220 Rescue CA 95672 Phone:916/677-5870 FAX:-5873
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 to crucify FFL holders
Keywords: FFL, criminals getting FFLs, HCI agenda
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:16:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.204351.19577@mtu.edu>, cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec14.121100.24936@watson.ibm.com>, mjp@austin.ibm.com 
|> (Michael J. Phelps) writes:
|> 
|> >   b and c: BATF already has plenty of power to enforce the law; its simply
|> > failing to do so!  Adding yet another law (that will not be enforced) is not
|> > going to cure anything.
|> 
|> Maybe the whole idea is to wait until they are granted so much power that
|> when they decide to enforce it, they can *anything* they want...  Do they
|> envy the power of the drug warriors?  :-(
|> 
|> -- 
|> Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
|> Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
|> -------------------------------------------------------------------
|> With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser

Gee the BATF must have Pistol envy. :-}

				mike