From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Tribute to Vietnam's General Dinh /ww
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:03:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

Just want to make a few comments on what I've read. After all, extremists of
all polarities tend to exagerrate things. Also want to see how tolerant these
open minded people really are.

In article <1992Sep26.192000.17638@mont.cs.missouri.edu> nyt%nyxfer%igc.apc.org@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (NY Transfer News) writes:
>
>   Via The N.Y. Transfer News Service 718-448-2358, 718-448-2683
>
> Tribute to Vietnam's General Dinh
> By Sharon Ayling
Ah.. More socialist wishful thinking about Vietnam
>
>Nguyen Thi Dinh, one of the foremost women revolutionary leaders
>of this century, died Aug. 26 in Ho Chi Minh City at the age of
>72. At the time of her death, she was a vice president of
>Vietnam's Council of State, the socialist government's highest
>authority. Until recently, she was also a member of the Central
>Committee of Vietnam's Communist Party and the head of the
>Vietnamese Women's Union.
Ah, so there were former members of the NLF in Vietnamese government. I thought
the North Vietnamese regime threw most of their southern comrades aside like
spent shell casings and took all the power for themselves. After all, they were
tainted by counter-revolutionary ideas while hiding out there. Can't let them
unwittingly destroy the worker's paradise, can we? Riiiiiiiight.
>
>In announcing her death, Vietnamese officials described Dinh as
>the outstanding woman in Vietnamese modern history.
Won't bother arguing with that. I haven't had the chance to learn Vietnamese
history.
>
>For over five decades, Dinh fought first against French
>colonialism and then against the genocidal U.S. war of
Funny. If genocide were our main objective in that war then all good socialists
have nothing to fear from the U.S. military. It's clearly too incompetent to
do anything. Hell, they didn't even bother to use nukes to accomplish this 
objective that Ms. Ayling claims was our own. Unless of course, genocide was
*not* the main objective of the war or even *a* objective of the war. Come to
think of it, did we *have* any real clear objective in that war? I can't seem
to find one. Anyway, the charge of genocide, while it does stir one's outrage
at it's mere mention, can get diluted if used too often. Which it seems in 
these "progressive" posts to be the definition of any US activity in the world
or in general. I even think that some believe that the U.S.'s existence is
genocide. Makes little sense. Also is a pity. Genocide is a serious crime. But
if the left (sorry, running out of fancy terms. How come y'all have so many
isms and -ists available? Do you work all day making them up?) keeps shouting
the charge at anything that moves, it will eventually be ignored by people 
getting sick and tired of these damn whinings. This is called the "cry wolf"
syndrome. It can cost lives in the long run for if an attempt at genocide is
made and an outcry is made against it, it might be ignored until it's too late
because people will say is another damn leftist wild goose chase.
>occupation, rising to be the highest ranking woman in Vietnam's
>liberation struggle.
Also known to some as North Vietnam's imperialist expansion. Come on! If you 
can throw the "i" word all over the place, why can't I? I am not devoted to 
the Cause? Ew. You're not a religious cult are you? :)
>
[deleted biographical data... nothing to comment on. simple career
and family stuff]
>
>Dinh admitted that even she had to contend with age-old disdain
>for women: "When I was appointed Vice-Commander in Chief of the
>People's Liberation Armed Forces, some people thought it was only
>for propaganda. But when I succeeded, they realized the
>appointment was correct."
Maybe it was propaganda, but turned out to be a good idea anyway.
>
>Gen. Dinh was arrested several times during the U.S. occupation
>of Vietnam. Once, some time after 1965, Thieu's soldiers arrested
>her without knowing her identity. Many villagers--aware of her
>real identity--went to the jail, insisting that she was their
>relative. When they had convinced her captors of her loyalty to
>the Saigon regime, she was released.
War has it's odd incidents too wierd to believe, eh?
>
>The Vietnamese showed how a small, poor country can defeat a
>large, technologically advanced country if it educates, mobilizes
>and arms the whole population to resist. The Vietnamese called
>their resistance `people's war.'
It also helps to be constantly supplied by a fraternal socialist superpower
like the USSR and PRC. SA-2s and AK-47s aren't made out of bamboo. Just be sure
to let the big superpower that supplied you use your enemy's biggest base
as it's own. Note Soviet use of Camh Ran Bay(sp?) very soon after South Vietnam
fell to a massive armored assault from the North.
Another big help would be thousands of regular NVA troops fighting with you
down South. As having supply lines your opponent refuses to cut off. As well
as vital centers in the North that your enemy also refuses to destroy because
they have no clue about strategy.
The Vietnam War was effectively a proxy war between the USA and the USSR.
North Vietnam got to rule the rest of the country, USSR got a major base, USA
got egg on its face and a shattered confidence. What a clusterfuck.
>
>
>These PLAF women also served GIs, doing laundry, shining their
>boots, selling them fruit or soft drinks. During the daytime,
>they routinely gained entry to U.S. bases and measured the exact
>location of targets to be shelled the coming night. The following
>day, they returned to the base to assess the results. Even Dinh
>gained access to U.S. bases disguised as a peasant woman.
Ack. This is most embarrassing. Oh well, add security measures to my lists of
screw ups about that war. Right after "Lack of Coherent Strategy."

"Excuse me, Miss. What are you doing with that map and compass?"
"Planning a trip?"
"Oh. Taht's allright. Have fun."
Ack.
>This remarkable woman found time in 1968--the year of the Tet
>Offensive that was the turning point in the war--to write a
>moving account of her life. It is available in English from the
>Department of Asian Studies at Cornell University. Much can be
>learned from studying this revolutionary woman's life.
Probably had little to do after Tet. The NLF took so many casualties in that 
offensive that they were effectively eliminated as a fighting force for the
rest of the war. Only the psychological victory against the American public
saved them from disaster. But that was enough and that is what matters.


-- 
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Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
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