From: jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Subject: Re: Max Mosely Interview
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:19:43 GMT

In article <Oct.6.18.59.16.1992.13306@lessfilling.rutgers.edu> froncio@lessfilling.rutgers.edu (Andy Froncioni) writes:
>jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>> 
>> When people point out how much more technologically advanced F1 is in 
>> comparison to IndyCar/CART, a national series with all its rules designed to 
>> limit expenses and keep competition close, I think of this:
>> 
>> F1 has outlawed ground effects of the type seen in IndyCar.  They are viewed 
>> as dangerous by FISA.
>
>...etc...
>
>Well, no one can really comment on someone else's reason for choosing
>one or the other, however, F1 is clearly the more interesting forum
>if you are into developing your own open-wheeled chassis - and there 
>are a few of us around.  All the new stuff usually comes out first in
>F1.  That's the bottom line for me.  Other people's mileage may vary.
>
>I look to F1 for new innovations and pushing the technology as far as it
>can go.  Sure, there are F1 restrictions, but IndyCar seems to lag behind F1 
>in virtually all areas.  Let's look at a few aspects of car design.  
>Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about IndyCar can fill in
>the blanks:
>
I can answer a few of your questions:

>Engine:     F1 specs for turbo were 1300 Hp for 1500 cc engine for a
>            1986 BMW engine, I think.
>
>            What are IndyCar engine specs for turbo?  Was there ever
>            an all-out unrestricted turbo in Indy/CART?
>
Turbos have been restricted at Indy since 1973 (I think they were
unrestricted back then). I don't know what the power output was, but
it was probably > 1000 hp from 2.6 liters burning methanol. After the
carnage of the 1973 race (3? killed in practice + race) they put a
strict limit on boost, fuel load and fuel location. The maximum allowable
boost is about 1.5 bar

>Chassis:    The first use of carbon-fibre for the entire chassis in
>            F1 was in...ummm...1980/81 by Renault, I think.
>
>            Indy?  
>
Carbon fibre was not allowed until 1991 due to concerns about the saftey
of a carbon fibre tub in multiple 200+ mph impacts as can happen at Indy.
See a recent thread for many details, arguments, charges, counter-charges
and flames about this subject.

>Suspension: AA arm suspension came in around the late 70's in F1.
>            Gordon Murray used them in a Lotus with inboard spring/
>            dampers in the late 70's, too.  Recently, some more 
>            adventurous teams have been using monoshock suspensions
>            (Dallara, Ferrari, Ligier, Brabham (sniff)).  Williams
>            has incorporated Lotus's old active suspension idea,
>            which came out in about 1986.  Renault experimented 
>            with active camber control in the mid-80's.
>            NOTE:  Lookout! Active camber control is the next BIG
>            innovation in F1.  I haven't heard anything else about
>            it, but it must be on its way.  Traction control was
>            used this year and there are ABS rumours floating around.
>
>            When was the first use of all the above in Indycar?
>
Active suspension, etc. are not allowed in IndyCars, I think. Reasons
are cost and cost of failure at 220 mph at Indy (one Nelson Piquet
accident is enough). I could be wrong about this - it might be legal, but
certainly nobody has tried it yet.
>
>Tires:      Radial tires became popular in the early 80's in F1. 
>            Now, they're kind of taken for granted.
>
>            When did Indy start using them?
>
They were used on road courses within a few years of their introduction
in F1. On oval tracks, late 80's is what I remember.

>
>Perhaps some of the IndyCar fans out there could answer some of my 
>questions.  I'm not a race fan, as such.  Being more of a designer
>than a driver, I prefer a forum that pits the engineers' wits against
>one another.   That's why I prefer F1...
>
With tire changes mandated in F1 next year (and multiple changes possible
with the new smaller tires), I wonder if the the compressed-air jacks that
are built in to Indy Cars (and have been for 10-15 years) will make their
way into F1. There's less need for them perhaps since F1 allows a zillion
people to work on the car at once in the pits, instead of the 5 allowed
in Indy Cars.

Jeff
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