HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hgpeach@ms.uky.edu (Harold Peach)
Subject: Re: Roll Your Own Trunked Scanner?
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:46:28 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:

>My understanding of trunked 800MHz communication is that one channel
>is used to control all communications on the other channels. It does
>not seem too difficult to me to builda scanner with two receiver
>sections, one for the control channel and one for the data signals.
>All that is needed then is a computer program to decode the control
>information and to use that information to follow the desired signal(s)
>through its(their) frequency changes. Of course, this is no help if the
>signals are encrypted as well, but I don't think too many departments
>would bother. I expect the scanner manufacturers to come out with this
>type of product as soon as there is a big enough market.
>-- 
>Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
> 
>                        Happy Holidays to ALL!!!

Your idea is correct, but there are several problems.  The biggest
is that each company has developed their own "flavor" of trunking
that is proprietary and patented.  This means that scanner manufacturers
will have to wait 17 years (I think that is the patent term) before
they can develop such a scanner and will have to develop a different
scanner or at least decoding software for each brand.  From a
trunking user standpoint, they are tied to using only whatever brand
they first go with.  This prevents users from switching radio brands,
which I am sure the radio companies love!


-- 
Harold G. Peach, Jr.       ><>       N4FLZ       _%       hgpeach@s.ms.uky.edu
From: Kirk.Smith@launchpad.unc.edu (Kirk Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: 800MHz Trunked Radio System Signals
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:14:04 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

I wouldn't worry much about the transmit section of a trunked radio,
as most newer radios can be programmed with transmit inhibit, or worst
case scenerio, with a Tx offset that is out of range and the PLL won't
lock on (thus no Tx).

The bigger problems are:

1)  Affording a radio.  Since there are different trunking systems,
    I'd imagine that you'd need a Motorola to monitor Motorola, GE to
    monitor GE, etc.  If you've ever priced radios, you know that these
    are BIG bucks.  I haven't priced trunked radios, but the "cheap"
    16ch Motorola mobiles (ie: MaxTrac) are around $1k.  

2)  Getting a tech to program it.  I don't imagine they make the
    programming equipment available to the general public (Motorola
    doesn't, unless you meet their requirements, and pay through the nose
    for the radio interface box, cable, and software).  So you say
    you'll let them program it.  Fine, if they'll actually do it.
    You'd probably be stuck buying from the same dealer that your
    municipality bought from to get the codes right, and they may
    be reluctant to do this.

I invision a scanner with plug-in ROM cards to support different
trunking systems, and you'd be stuck needing several seperate dedicated
scanners to effectively monitor everything.  This hobby is going to
get EXPENSIVE.

-ks

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: PLAWS@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: What freq do these operate at?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 14:26:55 -0600
Organization: University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

On Wed, 30 Dec 1992 04:11:13 GMT you said:
>In article <1992Dec29.183340.723@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
>cscon0151@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>Has anybody heard of a wireless device that will broadcast a video signal
>>throughout a house?  It is supposed to allow other viewers in the house to

If you refer to the VCR Rabbitt (sp?), it is in the 902-928 MHz Band and
many hams have modified them for ATV use (it is a ham band).  Don't know
the results.


>Brad, if my experience is of any value, it won't do your neighbors any good.
>I bought one, at a friend's recommendation, and gave it a try.  About $70

Peter Laws              |"The '90s are gonna make the '60s|plaws@uafhp.uark.edu
n5uwy@ka5bml.ar.usa.noam| look like the '50s"--D. Hopper  |plaws@uafsysb.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
From: tlk@byron.u.washington.edu (england)
Subject: mod sites
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:19:11 GMT


Does anyone have a list of some good mod sites??  Needed specifically is
a mod for the BC855XLT.
From: moisan@silver.lcs.mit.edu (David Moisan)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: PRO-30 Info
Followup-To: alt.radio.scanner
Date: 30 Dec 1992 14:47:32 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.ai.mit.edu
Summary: No, 800 Mhz not possible without an external converter

No, it's not possible;  the only way it could be done is by way of an
800 Mhz converter such as GRE's.


-- 
| David Moisan, N1KGH    /^\_/^\   dmoisan@pro-angmar.alfalfa.com |
| 86 Essex St. Apt #204 ( o ^ o )  moisan@silver.lcs.mit.edu      |
| Salem. MA 01970-5225     | |                                    |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: 800MHz Trunked Radio System Signals
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Arizona USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:18:57 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Dec31.102756.17259@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
]john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:
]
]: Sorry, but you can indeed outlaw a thing. The Electronic Communications
]: Privacy Act of 1986 specifically OUTLAWS receiving encrypted signals
]: unless you are the intended recipient. This is the same (ill conceived)
]: law that outlaws receiving cell phone calls but leaves it legal to
]: receive cordless phone calls. Go figure...
]
]Not quite true. There are quite a few exceptions. I agree that the law
]is stupid.

What are the exceptions (other than the obvious one of being the
intended recipient)?


-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
       - - Gun Control Means Hitting What You are Aiming At! - -
 - - - "It is better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six." - - -
From: Dan.&.Rex@f4016.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Dan & Rex)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Monitoring American (Book)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 13:28:12 -0600

Re: Monitoring American (Book)
 

     The latest edition of the book called "Monitoring America" has just
been released.  This book offers the average scanner listener with a good
over-all variety of frequencies to monitor.

->Dan McNulty
From: gkd@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Gregory K Doerschler)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: another approach to f
Date: 28 Dec 1992 20:41:43 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In article <1992Dec28.062941.3205@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dlaro@lonestar.utsa.edu (David O. Laro) writes:
>
>I'm pretty well convinced, from operating 11 meters for a few  years,
>that Texas police can and do make arrests for using CB for just that
>purpose [passing "smokey" reports]. (I don't think they like your flashing
>your lights after you've just passed a radar trap, either, whadayawannabet?)
>
>Or, maybe I'm wrong...tell me there's no way it can be done!  I've a friend
>who spent a few dollars because it was done to him...

A number of years back, the State PD in Connecticut cited dozens of motorists
one day for flashing their headlights to warn oncoming traffic of a radar
trap (including a friend of mine).  One of them retained a lawyer who ended
up representing all of those who challenged the fines.  Using a defense
which referenced Paul Revere's midnight ride warning Massachusetts
that "the redcoats are coming" to argue that Americans have a longstanding
tradition of alerting one another to authoritarian presence, all of the
cases were dismissed.  The whole affair even made the front page of
"The Hartford Courant."

Just because police CAN get you for lots of things, it doesn't mean that
they are justified in doing so.  More often than not, people figure it's
easier to pay the fine than to challenge it.

                                                  Greg
From: denning@chirpa.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: 800MHz Trunked Radio System Signals
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:30:54 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <gregs.2grz@hotcity.COM>, gregs@hotcity.COM (Greg Stramback) writes...
>well, this is all fine and dandy, but you have to get the rig programmed
>properly.  i know a few techs that program the things, and they're not all that
>easy to program, and you need to have them programmed IDENTICALLY to the other
>radios in the system.  furthermore, since the rigs can transmit as well as
>receive, more often than not you need to be either licensed to operate /
>monitor the system, or you need to have a signed letter of approval from the

Well I warn everyone not to dash off and buy a Motorola trunking radio thinking
that they can just program it up and use it.

The files required to program a MOTOROLA trunking radio are ONLY generated
by MOTOROLA CORPORATE. It is not like a conventional radio where you just 
buy the software and program the radio up. Motorola Trunking Services produces
a file that is keyed on a per radio (serial # EEPROM based). They then load
this software (over modem) to the local MSS who will load it in your radio.

We have a Motorola SYNTOR X9000E and a SPECTRA trunking radio in our mobile
command communications unit for the fire department. When ever we end up
going to a place that we have to use these radios it takes hours to
get the programming done.
From: "derek buchler" <derek.buchler@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: another approach to f
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:32:46 EST
Reply-To: "derek buchler" <derek.buchler@channel1.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

ML>While trying to think of a solution to the new laser radar it occurred to me
ML>that it would be neat if fuzz busters could talk to each other electronically

DB>derek.buchler@channel1.com ("derek buchler") writes:
DB>:
DB>: I think that it would be illegal to do such a thing since it is illegal
DB>: to broadcast anything about police activity and law enforcement.   What
DB>: you are suggesting is the equivalant (sp?) of my radar dector going off
DB>: and then picking up my CB mike and relaying the info.  This is
DB>: definitely a no-no.

BN>It is? It has been a rather commonplace practice for the last 30 years.

Commonplace, maybe.  Legal, no.
BN>I know of no one who has ever been cited for such a practice.

I used to drive for a living (did repos back when I was in college) and
I can atest to the fact that it is not permited to broadcast on a
citizens band radio about police activity.  As a matter of fact, in the
back of the manual that came with my CB is states that as well.

I have seen, on a few occasions where I was talking to another driver
about State Troopers and such that they were pulled over.

On a more comical note, I was once driving through the midwest and my
radar detector went off.  I asked on my CB if anyone else's picked up
the signal.  A few drivers indicated that Yes, and others indicated No.
After a few minutes of discussing if it was a false alarm or not, the
cop came on the radio and said that we were all blind and that he was
hiding in the bushes.  He also told us that if we kept the speed under
70 mph, he'd leave us alone. :)

Derek
---
  SLMR 2.1a  Floppy not responding, Format HARD DRIVE instead? Y/N ?
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 13:47:25 EST
From: me <PJB113@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: 800MHz Trunked Radio System Signals

As more and more services switch to trunked systems, I'm sure the scanner
companies will eventually develop scanners with trunking capabillities. I
strongly believe that the same thing is true with digital encryption. Too
much money is involved in communications monitoring for it to go down
the tubes just because of trunking and encryption. -PJB

These are only my opinions.
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
From: MHARRIS@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU
Subject: NFL frequencies for Houston Oilers
Organization: Rice University  
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:21:42 GMT

I know that the season is considered over, but can anyone tell me what
frequencies I can tune to to hear whats going on on the football field?
 
I have been trying to catch the Oilers when they play at home but no luck.
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner,sci.crypt
From: Randy.Morgan@f20.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Randy Morgan)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Shortwave Radio
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 16:24:11 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/20 - Mercury Opus NEC360, St Petersburg FL

For sale - a Sony ICF-2010 shortwave radio in excellent condition.  This radio
is considered the top of the line in portable shortwave radios. It's about
2 years old, only used for the 1st 6 months (after which I bought a PC, now
my primary hobby, haven't used radio since).  Coverage is from 150 KHZ-30 MHZ
AM, 76-108 MHZ (FM), and 116-136 MHZ (Air Band, i.e. airline traffic, control
towers, etc.). Also includes upper and lower sideband (can listen to ham radio
on upper sideband), 32 memory channels, synchronous detection for
interference-free reception (I've picked up over 30 countries so far from here
in West Central Florida), digital tuning, many other options which make this
an excellent choice for shortwave listening.

Asking $200 (goes for $350 new), I'll pick up shipping to you.  Contact me
through this conference or at (813)786-8944.

Randy...

... Blue Wave - World Tour - 1992
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--  
Internet: Randy.Morgan@f20.n3603.z1.FIDONET.ORG
UUCP:     ...!myrddin!tct!mechanic!20!Randy.Morgan
Note: Mechanic is a free gateway between USENET & FIdonet.
      For information write to chief@mechanic.fidonet.org
From: lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: 800MHz Trunked Radio System Signals
Keywords: The Control channel
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:18:39 GMT
Organization: Radio Amateur k5qwb

lockhart@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Jack C. Lockhart) writes:

> The way I read the FCC/APCO 16 A&B NPSPAC standards: one of the
> reasons why the E. F. Johnson trunked radio system does not meet
> specified standards is because of the lack of a control channel.
> 
> Sets assume that all the channels of the trunked radio system are
> busy.  A control channel allows the trunk radio system controller to
> interrupt a conversation in progress when it receives an emergency
> request and immediately assign the requestor (usually a police
> officer, fire personnel, or anyone with emergency request
> capabilities) to the captured channel.  The captured channel is
> usually placed in the MESSAGE trunked mode to secure the channel for
> the duration of the event or conversation.

This is another typical mis-representation. Unless the transmitting 
unit is full-duplex, it will continue transmitting, blocking that 
channel. Even though the system might prevent the next transmission, 
that delay will usuall confuse the user. Many trunked system users also 
believe they have many more channels than actually exist. For
example, one local system has ten channels used by three cities. When 
the big one hits, they plan on each having several police, fire, 
ambulance and emergency-preparedness groups. That may be the first time 
many of the users will get the 'busy' tones. It may be another 
'communications disaster' vs. 'disaster communications'. :-)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 
73,            internet     | lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org
Lyn Kennedy    packet radio | K5QWB @ N5LDD.#NTX.TX.US.NA
               pony express | P.O. Box 5133, Ovilla, TX, USA 75154

-------------- "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Pogo --------------
From: miles@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Miles Abernathy)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Radio Robbery
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:03:08 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d10
X-XXMessage-ID: <A769E377FE06B991@slip-x45.ots.utexas.edu>
X-XXDate: Fri, 1 Jan 93 12:03:03 GMT

Buddy Brannan, a blind amateur radio operator, was riding an Austin,
Texas, city bus about 1 PM on Wednesday, Dec. 30, talking on his
handy-talkie. A guy on the bus asked him about the radio and Buddy gave
him a demo. The guy liked it so much he asked to look at the radio and
ripped it off. Jumped off the bus and left Buddy on the bus.

Here is a description of the thief, as given by the bus driver: Black
man, 28 to 35 years old, dark complexion, medium height (5'6" or 5'7"),
medium build, short haircut (no afro or anything like that).

The radio is a Yaesu FT-470 dual-bander, serial number 450452, with its
stock battery pack (probably dead by now). No leather carry case. For
identification purposes, memory channel 19 is programmed for 410.00 and
channel 20 for 470.00 MHz.

If you should encounter this radio, please contact Buddy at (512)
452-6172, or via Internet at davros@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu. Thank you.
From: rbn@Apple.COM (Robert B. Neville)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: 381.380MHz Monitoring
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:48:35 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

>PJB113@psuvm.psu.edu (me) writes:
>:     In the apartment complex where I live, the maintenance staff usehand-
>: held radios tuned to 381.380MHz (a frequency allocated to millitary air-
>: craft). How do I know this? Because I checked it on my startek counter
>: several times. Whatpuzzles me is why are they using this frequency? I
>: didn't bother to ask them because they might get suspicious of me.
>: Another thing that puzzles me is that when I plug this frequencyin
>: to my AR2500 I never hear anything. I've tried it on FM,AM and WFM
>: with no success. I even set up a search bank with frequencies from
>: 380-382MHz with no success. Could they be using digital encryption?

>You would at least hear noise, if they were using encryption.  It may
>be that your counter is being mislead by some other strong signal that
>is nearby. 

>Bill

You could be getting a hit on the counter from a wireless alarm system, garage
door opener, etc.

Are you reading 381.380 at more-or-less the same time the maintenance staff are
using their radios? If so, your counter may be out of whack...if not, try
walking around with the counter and determine the range and regularity of the
381.380 signal.

rbn@apple.com
From: lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Trunking
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:40:50 GMT
Organization: Radio Amateur k5qwb

From my monitoring, it appears that there are at least two versions of 
the GE system. One with a 4800 baud data channel and one with 9600 
baud. The power company here has one on 935 MHz without the annoying 
tones. It still means the Motorola and GE systems both tie up one 
channel with data so a 10 channel system can only have nine users 
actually talking at any time.

The other method I've seen uses sub-audible data streams and I think is 
usually called 'Johnson'. There seem to be several manufactures though. 
It is characterized by a short carrier every few seconds on an unused 
channel. I have only one here I care to listen to so I haven't 
investigated it much.

I've heard rumors that GE tells the cities that those tones are 
specifically there to discourage scanners which would probably be 
illegal under the FCC rules. Anybody know what other purpose they might 
serve?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 
73,            internet     | lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org
Lyn Kennedy    packet radio | K5QWB @ N5LDD.#NTX.TX.US.NA
               pony express | P.O. Box 5133, Ovilla, TX, USA 75154

-------------- "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Pogo --------------
From: cscon0151@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: another approach to f
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:16:17 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

dlaro@lonestar.utsa.edu (David O. Laro) writes:

[stuff deleted]
> 
> I'm pretty well convinced, from operating 11 meters for a few  years,
> that Texas police can and do make arrests for using CB for just that
> purpose.  (I don't think they like your flashing your lights after you've
> just passed a radar trap, either, whadayawannabet?)
> 
> Or, maybe I'm wrong...tell me there's no way it can be done!  I've a friend
> who spent a few dollars because it was done to him...
> 
> OBTW, where is Ovilla?  (Talk about Texas friendly!)

Are you saying the PD actually monitored Ch 19 while a speed trap was in
effect?  Did they actually have people monitoring the CB with directional
antennae so they could pick up these 'CB speed bandits'?  Were the 'offenders'
prosecuted under Federal, State or local laws?


Brad Steinman
University of Toledo Computer Services
cscon0151@uoft02.utoledo.edu
From: djc@terapin.com (Don Coco)
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
Subject: Re: FCC Required to give out Freq. list?
Date: 24 Dec 92 08:25:04 PST
Organization: BBS

You can try the many books out there or call the fcc and I believe they store
the lists and they are available to the public.

Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: 800MHz Trunked Radio System Signals
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 10:27:56 GMT

john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:

: Sorry, but you can indeed outlaw a thing. The Electronic Communications
: Privacy Act of 1986 specifically OUTLAWS receiving encrypted signals
: unless you are the intended recipient. This is the same (ill conceived)
: law that outlaws receiving cell phone calls but leaves it legal to
: receive cordless phone calls. Go figure...

Not quite true. There are quite a few exceptions. I agree that the law
is stupid.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner