HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson)
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:19:25 GMT

jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Bear hug from behind, trapping arms by the sides.  Normally not a big problem,
>right?  But our group questioned the actual attack ("Why the hell would someone
>attack you like this?") and ended up with a variation that is interesting.

>Bear hug from behind, trapping arms by the sides.  Attacker has lifted you into
>the air; arms are trapped just below elbow level and you cannot use the ground
>for leverage.  Attacker's head is tucked against your back (near the bottom of
>the neck).  Attacker's legs are not behind yours, but they're not evenly
>staggered between yours either; they're sort of right next to them.  And the
>attacker's grip in front of you is such that the thumb joint of the right fist
>is driving into the lower part of the sternum.  (I know that sounded weird. 

>Okay.  Now, the trick is that the attacker is not just holding you so that
>someone else can attack you from the front.  The attacker is lifting you into
>the air because he/she intends to slam you head first into the ground.  Some

>Any suggestions?  The stuff we've come up with are sporadic at best (our
>instructor can deal with it, which I guess I expect from a 6th dan).  Anything
>reliable would be nice.

	Don't know about reliable, but a few things to try at home are:

	1) try kicking backwards with your heel (bring your foot forward
		then quickly backwards) aiming at your opponent's
		nearest shin (the sidem, not the front if you can help
		it), knee, thigh or groin.
	2) try to slide one of your arms around your body (i.e. past
		your hip and around behind you) to grab/poke anything 
		soft and vulnerable.  Try to grab clothes if you can't
		do any damage, so you have a chance of slowing your
		descent.
	3) if you can reach the knee, push down on the knee cap (as if
		you were sliding it down the front of the shin) with
		the outside edge of your foot.
	4) try all of the obove concurrently or in quick (you don't
		have long remember :^) succession

	oh and ...

	5) report back what you find out, because some of us are on
		holidays and don't have our own friends to play with :^)

	This is another of those happy little situations for which the
best defence by a long shot is avoidance.  Fortunately, while getting
you into this position, your attacker is a little bit vulnerable.

		Barry.
From: bleys@wisdom.bubble.org (Bill Cavanaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 1 Jan 93 07:54:16 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises, Inc.

In article <MARY.92Dec31095109@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec31.024754.25064@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
>   Much of what I found out about taekwondo was that it was impractical in
>   street defense, because so much of it depended on flamboyant kicking.  
>   Imagine doing that on a gravel surface with three beers under your belt
>                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   (the most common situation where you might have to defend yourself to
>   begin with).
>
>Not for some of us.  
>
>Please, if you're going to get inebriated and belligerent, don't blame 
>a martial art because it doesn't bail you out.  

I think (hope) what Bob was referring to was the likelyhood that he would
be attacked in a place and situation where the attacker had been drinking.
Since most of us only find ourselves in such places if >we're< drinking,
and since those kinds of altercations usually happen later in the night,
it's a good bet that the defender is not completely sober...

bill
-- 
 *         Bill Cavanaugh       bleys@wisdom.bubble.org          *
XY + XX = :-)
From: pauljone@usc.edu (Michael Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: leaving / TCC in Albuquerque
Date: 21 Dec 1992 10:15:17 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


I started reading this group a little over two years ago.  Lately,
due to the pressures of work and school, I haven't been participating.
Allow me the conceit of thinking that some of you have missed me.

Anyway, I've finished my work at USC, at least for the present, and
I'll be losing my account soon.  I can read this newsgroup at work,
but my attempts to post have been unsuccessful, so this may be
the last you'll hear from me.

I want to thank everyone who has participated, and who will
continue to participate, in the ongoing discussions that occur
here.  You have all profoundly affected my understanding of the
arts I study, and given me a deep respect for the rest of the
martial arts.

On several occasions, when I have anticipated traveling for work,
I have asked about local schools in various areas.  I want to thank
all those who have helped me at those times once again.


I have one last request: a friend is going to the Albuquerque area,
and someplace called Santa Fe Taos, over the holidays.  If anyone
knows of any T'ai Chi Ch'uan or Aikido schools in these areas,
could you email me at jones@ipla00.hac.com ?  Thanks in advance
for any help you can give.



Thanks,
Mike Jones
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Body Memory
From: syco508@otago.ac.nz
Date: 28 Dec 92 12:18:21 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand


There is nothing unusual about body memory.  We use it all the time,
riding a bike for example.  That is why we practice; to give set of 
neurons the experience of firing in sequence.  LTP (Long Term
Potentienation) is a current model for the same process in memory
(cognition as opposed to muscular).

As for imagery, the literature shows that it is usefull for those
who already know what they should be doing but not for novices.  
Good behavioural coaching, breaking things down into component parts
and teaching those in sequence, appears to be the most effective
method of coaching for beginners.



                        J. P. Hegarty     syco508@otago.ac.nz



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ACC00LTR@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU (Leonard T Roberts)
Subject: Re: Just Curious...
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:12:03 GMT

In article <1h5khtINNdra@pith.uoregon.edu>
toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (J. Toman) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Dec21.194505.12371@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
>>In article <50040221@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry) writes:
>>>************** SNIP *********************************
>>
>>Nor are they the only ones.  I've seen all sorts of sources trying to
>>draw a link between modern day Western boxing and the sort that was
>>practiced in the ancient Greek Olympics.  Nope.  Present day boxing
>>dates back to the end of the 1700's, no more.
>
>So say two Gallic types wanted to brain one another but there weren't
>any tools handy ; what did they do ? I find it difficult to believe
>that with all that fighting that happened on the European continent,
>someone somewhere didn't develop a stylised method of unarmed fighting
>before the late 1700's. It might not have been 'boxing' , but there
>were moves in there that turned in to 'boxing' . I guess your last
>statement is just a bit discontinuous for me, and I'd need to hear
>your history of boxing to believe it.
>
>                                        J. Toman
 
You might try getting hold of a copy of George Aylward's The English
Man-At-Arms. It is not definitive, but what he said SOUNDS good, and
it puts the beginning of unarmed combat in England back to about 1400.
 
BTW, if anyone knows of any other books on this subject, ie. unarmed
combat in Europe before 1700, I would be glad to hear of them.
 
Thank you,
 
Len Roberts
/*------------------------------------------------------------------/*
/* ACC00LTR@UNCCVM - BITNET            "If only REAL life was like  /*
/* ACC00LTR@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU - INTERNET  this..." - Count Duckula    /*
/*------------------------------------------------------------------/*
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: dangers in falling
Date: 23 Dec 1992 16:35:08 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article u1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu, burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>  On the other hand, I've decided I'm now
>officially an old man and will switch to Yoga and Tai Chi.
>
>Dakin


Welcome to the club. Good luck.


---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: More Questions
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:04:18 GMT

In actize@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>Hello netters.  What's the counter to this move ?   Attacker & Defender face 
>each other as boxer usually do.  Attacker kicks defender in midsection with 
>rear foot.  Defender drops lead hand to down to deflect kick.  Attacker steps 
>in and punches the defender, who dropped his guard deflecting the kick . ???  

Is this tournament play with rules or self defense?  What kind of 
training can we assume for the defender?  Can he kick, catch and 
lock the attacker's leg, punch effectively?
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:38:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.151849.3615@crash> jfrost@crash.cts.com (Julian Frost) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.004930.13723@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>>
>>>leverage.
>>
>>	What's this about the writs?  Ugg... kote gaeshi is NOT a wrist
>>	technique, but one for the forearm.  What is practiced widely
>>	these days is a corruption, and is easily escaped.  
>
>Hang on a minute!!!  Kote Gaeshi is not a wrist technique??!!  Sounds
>like you should study some more Japanese!!  "Ko" = Little, "Te" =
>Hand, "Gaeshi" = Twist...  Japanese call the wrist the "Little Hand",
>or "Kote", so "Kote Gaeshi" means "Wrist Twist".  Another name for it
>was Kote Hineri, both Kote's mean wrist!

	"Kote" == forearm

	"Tekubi" == wrist,	Te == hand	Kubi == neck

	Kote is likely idiomatic, like tekubi.  I have never heard of the wrist
	referred to as kote.

	-Andy V.
From: fitikl@uta.fi (Timo Klemola)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Funakoshi, Gichin: Karate-do Kyohan
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:50:36 GMT
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Timo Klemola (fitikl@uta.fi) wrote:

The message did not come through the first time. We have some problems here 
with the computer.

My intention was to ask about the book of Funakoshi: Karate-do Kyohan. In the
last pages of the book there is the chinese text that has not been
translated. Does anybody have a translation of it? Or does anybody
know if it has been translated somewhere?

Timo Klemola
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ki and science
Summary: Nature and Spirit, the enduring philsophical dilemma
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:09:52 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX


frederic@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Frederic Woodbridge) writes...
> 
>> I am sure that if a better, more effective theory of martial arts were to
>> come along, then the Ki paradigm would eventually fall into disuse.  In
>> the meantime, I don't know a better way to teach certain aspects of MA,
>> than in terms of Ki. 
>> Mike Rilee 
> 
>Yo Mike, I'll leave it up to you to come up with "a better, more effective
>theory of martial arts". I don't know how in on Earth anyone would think
>there was a "more effective" way. I do suggest though, that in your
>your quest for a "more effective" way, you ask whatever you believe in to
>grant you a thousand or so years because that's approximately how long it
>took to discover and develop Ki.
>Yours sincerely, 
>Frederic W., III.

I suspect the point (at least my interpretation) was not to propose a martial 
arts development project --  but to pose a thought puzzle that illustrates that 
the concept of a universal life force serves as much as a framework, as
a single distinct mathematically renderable physical phenomena.  

There is sufficient precendent in intellectual history, I believe,
to render the notion of Universal Life Force as a piece of intuitive
elegance that will not be easily replaced, even though we may find
ways to describe it more precisely in the sciences.

						kind regards,

						todd
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com           |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273           |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                                       |
|  "I'm in a hurry, I don't know why.  All I really gotta do is live and die" |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: More boring ki/qi/chi & science
Summary: My optimum outcome, in terms of mutual understanding ...
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:35:42 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX


schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes...

>	You see, you still don't see the focal point of my arguments. You are
>still defending this abstract ideal of SCIENCE, when my argument rests on how
>you can't seperate science from the scientists, and that scientists (like
>other people) suffer from bias, but they can use the concepts and language of
>science to mask their own biases.

You're tilting at windmills, Stephen, the biases are already well known by 
all of us.

The issue is that the biased aspect of the cultural process in no way 
invalidates what is accomplished, nor is it going to invalidate thousands of 
years of proud tradition built up around the current expression of
logic and mathematics.  

The optimal outcome, imo, is that you'll eventually learn why some Western
Philosophers are so proud of their tradition and so interested in 
preserving its essential principles.

And that the limitations of logical-mathematical descriptions of reality
will become better understood, and other ways of organizing experience
(like Qi) will be better appreciated by some of those cynical folks you think 
are so unfairly biased.   

And yes, you're right, formal logic and abstract mathematics have little
direct relation in most cases to the skills we use to live our daily
lives.

>	Stephen
>--
>	Stephen Chan
>	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net

							kind regards,

							todd
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com           |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273           |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                                       |
|  "I'm in a hurry, I don't know why.  All I really gotta do is live and die" |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo Esoterica
Summary: The blend is the key.
Keywords: kokyu-nage
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:32:04 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bang.hal.com

>In article <1992Dec16.112755.5720@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>>As the throwee pushed strongly, stepping with his right foot,
>>the thrower took a quick step forward with _his_ right foot, toward
>>throwee's left side.  Then he stepped back and around with his left foot,
>>turning hard with the hands, and throwing.

In article <1gr8etINN8i7@pith.uoregon.edu> toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (J. Toman) writes:
>This sounds like the standard aikido randori throw. 

Yes, but ...

Actually, there's a further subtlety which has to do with how fast the
attacker is coming in.  For a slow attacker you enter deeply, for medium
fast you can almost stand still (stepping slightly to the side), for an
extremely fast attack (e.g someone running at you) you might actually have
to step backwards.  The first goal is to achieve a certain body-to-body or
center-to-center relationship by blending.  After that the throw is very
easy and natural.

In physics terms, the technique is easiest to understand if you start
in an attacker-centered coordinate system, blend, and then finish in a
self-centered coordinate system.  Is that a clear way of putting it?
At first, your actions are a function of the attacker, and then later
his actions are a function of you.

The blend is the transition between these two states.  So when I read
"Then he stepped back and around" I just think "tenkan blend".  The
energy input doesn't need to be very great if the attacker is already moving;
then you can just guide the movement.  Whatever energy you do have to supply
should be added smoothly and continuously over the full distance of the turn.
I don't think "turning hard with the hands" quite conveys the right feeling.

By the time it gets to the "throwing" part it should really feel more like
"guiding the fall".  The fall is already inevitable.

	Howard
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Coin Tossing
Date: 1 Jan 1993 04:32:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Since this was brought up I guess I'ld share it with you.  It is possible for a
person to make a coin come up heads if s/he wants, or tails if s/he wants.  In 
fact there are at least a few score people today who can do this.  They are 
called magicians.

What you saw was a coin being thrown in the air, the coin being caught, some 
funny quick hand motions which didn't catch your attention much, and a coin 
revealed on the back of a hand.

The big secret is that this person is using three coins and great dexterity
in the fingers.
From: david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: body memory
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:13:21 GMT

ek@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Ernst Krudl) writes...
> 

>In a book called Das Training der Sieger (The training of the winners),
>published here in Vienna it is said that many , all ? super athletes
>train visually to perfect their performance, always of course together
>with actual training and not exclusively. 
>Does this apply to martial arts too and what are your experiences and opinions ?

This does apply to martial arts from my experience.  I learn techniques
and forms faster with less physical practice than a lot of people at my
school.  I attribute it to my visualization of techiques and forms.
I often do not have the time to practice physically.  I used to have a
40 minute commute to work.  During that time I would often visualize
forms (although I would also pay attention to my driving).  I learned
much faster and with more accuracy than others who practiced even more
physically but not visually at all.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: New Year Practices?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 05:00:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.161436.16701@beaver.cs.washington.edu> notkin@cs.washington.edu (David Notkin) writes:
>I'm curious about the different special practices that different
>schools and different arts have on New Year's Eve or New Year's Day.
>

We don't do anything special on New Year's Eve/Day, but the first class of
the year (in our case it'll be tomorrow) we do outside, the less outerwear the
better but it's kind of optional for the students.  Refreshing, though not
quite the level of a Polar Bear Club dip in the ocean or anything.

	Rich
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tmaas@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Anthony Maas)
Subject: Re: Help on resuming training
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:26:22 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

One of the most important things for me, after having to take about three months off(also due to finances), was to ease into a good stretching program for the legs.  I found out the hard way that most kicks don't work very well until you've regained some of the flexibility lost over the months of inactivity.  Something else that helped give me some aerobic work plus helped to bring back some kind of coordination was shadow-sparring - find an empty room and start putting together combinations (upper and low



er body).  Start slow and work your way up, but try not to do less than three techniques at a time...  Hope this helps.

Tony Maas
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jfrost@crash.cts.com (Julian Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:18:49 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <1992Dec29.004930.13723@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.131622.10306@cs.mun.ca> matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook) writes:
>>
>>Well, I don't know about you, but the only reason I move when these
>>techniques are applied to me, is so that my wrist doesn't get ripped
>>off.  The point of leverage of these attacks is at the wrist, so
>>therefore if you don't move the wrist gets broken, and there is no more
>>leverage.
>
>	What's this about the writs?  Ugg... kote gaeshi is NOT a wrist
>	technique, but one for the forearm.  What is practiced widely
>	these days is a corruption, and is easily escaped.  

Hang on a minute!!!  Kote Gaeshi is not a wrist technique??!!  Sounds
like you should study some more Japanese!!  "Ko" = Little, "Te" =
Hand, "Gaeshi" = Twist...  Japanese call the wrist the "Little Hand",
or "Kote", so "Kote Gaeshi" means "Wrist Twist".  Another name for it
was Kote Hineri, both Kote's mean wrist!
Julian