HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schwartzman@envnet.gsfc.nasa.gov (Gene Schwartzman)
Subject: Re: It's not my fault!
Originator: asdfjkl@rac2.wam.umd.edu
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:21:12 GMT

In article <9208271238.AA10921@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> JZeevi%users%swri03@D26VS046A.CCF.SWRI.EDU writes:
>Referees don't score goals.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bzzzt... wrong.. I had a game, where the ball hit the left goal post, rolled
about 1 foot afway from the goal line (in field of play), curved, hit the other
goal post, and bounced away from the goal.  The referee (being horendously
out of position) awarded a goal..  I'd definetely say, the referee scored the 
goal since obviously the other team didn't...


> Referees don't take goals away. 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wrong again... in our indoor soccer league (no flames please :), we use a a
board as a goal. If a ball hits *ANY* part of the board, it counts as a goal.
Unfortunately, the board is painted as if it was a real goal, including the 
goal posts and crossbar.  In a game, the ball hit the 'posts' on numerous
occasions and the referee (out of stupidity) didn't award a goal.. A very
clear instance of a the referee taking the goal away when it was clearly scored.


>All referee 
>actions are in response to player actions. (Please note : NO FLAMES! I am sure
>that there may be biased referees out there, but you'd have a tough time 
>proving it. Opinion from non-officials, assessors, etc who have worked/assessed
>at the highest levels is all that counts.)

No sometimes, their actions are in response to their (ref's) stupidity and
lack of knowledge of laws of the game and not being in shape to do the game.

Unfortunately, too many people feel that unless you are qualified to referee
nationally, you don't know what you're talking about... Sadly, most people
who are the best qualified are the ones who are 'in the trenches' all the
time, like players, coaches, etc...


Just my monthy referee bashing....

Gene
From: roberto@oliveb.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Roberto Ricca)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: European tipping: the numbers.
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:03:25 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <13802@chalmers.se> d5kwedb@dtek.chalmers.se (Kristian Wedberg) writes:

>In Sweden the most common form uses a sheet with 13 games, and you have
>3 choices for each game: home victory, tie... To win, you need at least
>10 correct games.

In Italy we call it "Totocalcio".  It's about the same but you need at
least 12 correct guesses to win.

>                  Each row costs 1 SKr (0.1 pound), minimum winnings are
>20 SKr, maximum is 3,000,000 SKr. About 30,000,000 SKr are betted each week,

0.1 pound is about $.20, correct? That should be about 220 liras.
In Italy each column costs 800 liras (~$.75). About 100 billion liras
(~$90 million) are bet each week.

>and 46% is returned as winnings. Of these, 38% goes to 10 correct games,
>17% to 11 correct, 18% to 12 correct, 27% to all correct. The games are
>both from the Swedish league and the English, depending on season.

At the beginning of this year one column costed 600 liras and just 38%
of bettings returned to the winners.
Then we got a double increase: 100 liras from the organization (our
national olympic commitee, CONI) and 100 liras from our "wonderful"
goverment.  I don't know if the latter was completely "swallowed" by
the State. In this case the amount of winnings should be just 33.25%
of the bettings. Any case, it's a robbery.

The winnings are divided into two equal parts, for people with 12 and 13
correct guesses. Games are from Italian leagues, usually 9 games from
the first division (Serie A), two from the second (serie B) and two from
the third (Serie C1) and/or fourth (Serie C2).

There is not a fixed minimum or maximum that you can win. I remember
my father winning 2200 liras (about five years ago) with a 12, and 
somebody winning about 3.5 billion liras ($3.1 million).

########################################################################
# Roberto Ricca                 Email:      roberto@oas.olivetti.com   #
# 816 So. Saratoga Ave #M304    Phone: Home (+1408) 983-2293           #
# San Jose, CA  95129  -  USA          Work (+1408) 366-3558           #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#           1992:   GO GIANTS  (tragic number:   19)                   #
#           September 27, 1992:   the end of an era?                   #
########################################################################
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: newbery@zonda.atd.ucar.edu (Santiago Newbery)
Subject: Re: World Cups 1930-1990 (was Wanted)
Organization: National Center for Atmospheric Research
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:50:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.010054.21273@daimi.aau.dk>, rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:

|> Some fuel to the ongoing Europe vs South America flamewar:
|> 
|> Europe has had 39 (14 different (with Germany = West Germany)) teams 
|> among the top 4, South America 16 (4 different).
|> -- 
OK, here's some more coming your way...

World cups won by South American teams	: 7 (Brasil 3, Argentina 2, Uruguay 2)
			European	: 7 (Italy 3, W. Germany 3, England)

World cups held in Europe	: 8	( 7 won by Europeans + 1 by SA)
		   South America: 6	( 6 won by SA + 0 won by Europeans)

So Europe has had more of the home-team advantages, but Brasil
managed to win in Sweden 1958, whereas no European team has yet
won the WC in South America. Hence. SA teams are ahead in this respect.
If we count the entire American continent, maybe they (Europeans)
will get their chance in WC94 (but I think Argentina & Brasil
will have much to say about this).

While it is true that more European teams reach the semis, that
seems to be in direct proportion to the number of teams qualifying
for the final 24. Actually if the starting European / SA proportion is
3/1, and by the semis that proportion is 39/16 = 2.44 then the SA
teams fare better than their European couterparts.

                         
                                                 /\      /\ 
                                                /\/\  /\/\/\ 
                                            /\ /    \/  \   \ 
+------------------------------------------/  \     /    \   \----------+
|  Santiago Newbery	<<<<>>>>	newbery@zonda.atd.ucar.EDU	|
|  Atmospheric Technology Div.	/ SSSF	Phone/FAX: 303-497-8762/8770	|
|  National Ctr. for Atmospheric Research	Boulder, CO.		|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer,soc.culture.czechoslovak
From: dstein@dione.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: CSFR first 3 rounds
Reply-To: dstein@dione.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:25:30 GMT

Daniel Soska writes:

> A really big 'dakujem' to Karel for his results, he is 'the voice of Central
> European Soccer'.

> Someone buy him a 'Prazdroj' or 'Pilsner Urquell' as known outside CSFR.

  I second that motion!

 - David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Polska liga, round 6
Summary: Wyniki 6. rundy
Organization: Warsaw University Physics Dept.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:05:11 GMT

Results of Polish league, 6th round (played on Wednesday, Sept. 2nd)


1) SZOMBIERKI BYTOM  -  ZAWISZA BYDGOSZCZ  0:0


2) SLA,SK WROCL~AW  -  L~KS L~ODZ  0:1 (0:0)
                         Podolski        '83


3) LECH POZNAN  -  POGON SZCZECIN  3:0 (2:0)
   Trzeciak       '20
   Podbrozny      '44
   Moskal         '89


4) HUTNIK KRAKOW  -  JAGIELLONIA BIAL~YSTOK  4:0 (1:0)
   Waligora       '45
   Waligora       '70 (penalty)
   Popczynski     '72
   Waligora       '81


5) WIDZEW L~ODZ  -  SIARKA TARNOBRZEG  3:0 (2:0)
   Koniarek       '10
   Iwanicki       '22
   Iwanicki       '57


6) STAL MIELEC  -  OLIMPIA POZNAN  2:0 (1:0)
   Federkiewicz   '11
   Fedoruk        '47


7) GKS KATOWICE  -  WISL~A KRAKOW  2:0 (1:0)
   Swierczewski   '22
   Szewczyk       '49


8) GORNIK ZABRZE  -  LEGIA WARSZAWA  0:3 (0:1) !!
                          Sliwowski       '14
                          Kowalczyk       '77
                          Sliwowski       '87


9) RUCH CHORZOW  -  ZAGL~E,BIE LUBIN  1:0 (1:0)
   Da,browski     '27



TABLE
=====
    Team         Points   Goals
-------------------------------------
 1. Lech          12-0    17:2
 2. Ruch          10-2    13:4
 3. Widzew        10-2    12:5
 4. Legia          9-3    12:6
 5. L~KS           9-3    11:8
 6. Katowice       7-3     9:5
 7. Stal           7-5    10:7
 8. Hutnik         6-6    12:8
 9. Wisl~a         5-7     9:7
10. Zagl~e,bie     5-7     7:8
11. Siarka         5-7     8:10
12. Gornik         4-6     7:10
13. Szombierki     4-8     4:8
14. Sla,sk         4-8     7:13
15. Zawisza        3-9     4:8
16. Jagiellonia    3-9     6:15
17. Pogon          2-10    3:14
18. Olimpia        1-11    2:15


Cheers!

P.S. Since I am leaving for a month period now, results
     of several next rounds will be not posted, or posted
     with a delay of some days.  If someone is able to
     substitute me for this period, please do.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are my opinions. Quite predictable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Michal~ Szleper                          "All you need is love, love,
(michals@fuw.edu.pl)                      Love is all you need..."

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: peterm@pinhigh.Aus.Sun.COM (Peter Miles)
Subject:  No news
Reply-To: peterm@pinhigh.Aus.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 06:52:57 GMT

Fellow soccer enthusiasts,

Is it my imagination, that there is no discussion on this newsgroup lately, or is there
some technical communications breakdown at my end perhaps. 

I have only seen 2 pieces of news in the last 2 days, namely - articles 23478 & 23480.

Looking forward to seeing more news traffic on this group.

Regards  Peter



Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper)
Subject: Re: WC slot distribution South America vs Europe
Summary: Views for a new qualifying system
Organization: Warsaw University Physics Dept.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:16:41 GMT

In article <l9oaflINNi6@pollux.usc.edu> Carlos L. Luck writes:
>This discussion will probably last forever (or until all participants get
>overbored) without practical results. The reason for that, IMHO, is the
>fact that slots-per-region is an obsolete criterion, bound to be replaced
>gradually by a more competitive and integrated qualifying phase.
>(---------------------- two paragraphs deleted -------------------------)
>If I recall correctly, the WC had originally 16 teams. It was increased to
>20, then to 24, the reason being the inclusion of African and Asian slots
>without having to sacrifice Europeans and South Americans. The first
>3 games (nearly half the number of matches the first four will eventually 
>play) will be spent (in my opinion wasted) to narrow down the competitors
>to 16. Instead of doing that, take a couple of months of intense 
>competition all over the world and let the 16 best gather for a sequence of
>8 or 9 exciting matches. The way it goes, soon enough the world cup will
>resemble a tennis tournament: countless matches, one loss and you're out.
>The only difference being 4 grand slam tennis tournaments a year against
>one world cup every 4 years...

The first World Cup (1930) had incidentally 13 teams. Then, up to
1978 all Cups had 16 teams. In 1982 the number was increased to 24.
This 24 is not a lucky number since it is not a power of 2.
A problem arises immediately, how to arrange the elimination system
to get 2 teams for the final game. A more or less reasonable
solution was given in Spain'82:  24 -> 12 -> 4 -> 2.
Although the  12 -> 4  transition may leave some doubts, still
I believe it was better than actually in Mexico'86 or Italy'90:
24 -> 16 -> 8 -> 4 -> 2.  The transition  24 -> 16, with 36 matches
just to eliminate the 8 weakest teams is absurde.  Therefore,
if you don't want to restore the Spain'82 system, the only way
would be giving up the number of 24 participants.  32 is too many,
but 16 could be enough if we agree to make a cross-continental
qualifying phase.  Any more suggestions?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are my opinions. Quite predictable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Michal~ Szleper                          "All you need is love, love,
(michals@fuw.edu.pl)                      Love is all you need..."
From: dvlkhh@cs.umu.se
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Soccer shirts
Date: 26 Aug 1992 05:43:07 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
X-Unparseable-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 12:42:43 MET DST

Yes, there are shops who sell shirts etc, I think I have the address to one of
the ones in France, but if you want it, it'll take sometime to find it.

Kent
-- 
+---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
| Kent Hedlundh             | Les Girondins - Champions de D2 1992!           |
| Dept. of Computer Science | France and Sweden for the WC'94!                |
| University of Umea        | All the best for my friends teams!              |
| S-90187 UMEA     SWEDEN   | E-Mail: dvlkhh@cs.umu.se     IP: 130.239.96.17  |
+---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
               "It's always good to talk soccer!" - Marco Petroni
From: t-frans@microsoft.com (Francis Stanisci)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: RE: Public Apology
Date: 3 Sep 1992 15:55:02 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

This is AWESOME! :-)

Now this is the type of thing that I have a great deal of respect for. :-)

Let's hope that other's (Fuad, etc.) will learn from this.

Francis.
----------
From: Robert Moynihan  <netmail!moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com>
To:  <s947607@umslvma.BITNET>
Subject: Public Apology
Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1992 4:54PM

Michael Szleper:
(Sorry if that's spelled wrong, I don't have the spelling in front
of me.)  Please forgive my personal attacks in the thread about
European and South American football teams.  Although we disagree,
there was no excuse for me to be uncivil to someone that had done
me no wrong.  Such statements were uncalled for and inappropriate
in any forum. As my comments were public, so should be any apology.
I am truly sorry.

===================================================================
Bob Moynihan                         Bush/Quayle '92: Just say noe.
moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com             Go Ipswich Town!

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: norr@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil.orr)
Subject: Tony Adams
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:47:39 GMT


I can't remember the newspaper, but last week I read that
just after he had been cheered for some wondrous piece of
skill (like lacing his boots), the Arsenal captain, Tony
Adams, turned and waved his thanks to the North Bank 
cardboard crowd.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: altizer@figaro (Robert Altizer)
Subject: Re: New FIFA Keeper rule
Originator: root@mogate.sps.mot.com
Reply-To: altizer@chdasic.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola SPS
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:26:55 GMT

In article 19656@drutx.ATT.COM, darf@drutx.ATT.COM (DarflerGL) writes:
>I could use some help with the interpretation of the new FIFA keeper rule.
>My teammates had a lively discussion of this at practice yesterday but
>hold many different opinions. I have the FIFA circular text but remember
>discussion on the net expanding FIFAs meaning. 
>
>1. Can a player use their thigh, head, or some other area of their body 
>to push the ball back to the keeper?
>
>2. How about throw in's? Can a player still throw the ball directly to
>the keeper and the keeper use their hands?
>  
>Are the any other nuances that you have figured out? 
>
>Any help would be appreciated and might help us get back to the game
>instead of arguing.
>
>Thanks
>Jerry

In answer:

1) Yes, but FIFA has distributed a further circular mandating that the keeper's 
teammate cannot use "trickery" to circumvent the Law.  This means, apparently,
no chipping from foot to head, or lying down to push the ball with your head.
Balls played from head, chest, or thigh are OK if they come from normal play, 
for example heading the ball to the keeper from a corner-kick.

2) No problem (so far) for a throw-in to be caught by the keeper - it's a restart
from touch, and thus not covered by the "kick to keeper" clause.

Note these are in effect from July 25th this year.

Regards,
Bob

#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#      Robert Altizer - Motorola ASIC Software Quality Assurance       #
#  1300 North Alma School Road, M/S CH240, Chandler AZ 85224-8517 USA  #
#             Voice: (602) 821-4249 -- FAX: (602) 821-4167             #
# Internet: altizer@chdasic.sps.mot.com -- X.400: R10908@email.mot.com #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
#   Nature has neither kernel nor shell, she is everything at once.    #
#                                   -- Goethe                          #
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
From: cbar26@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Collins and Creaney
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:05:48 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

Why are John Collins and Gerry Creaney not in the Scotland squad?

Maybe they should spend 2 years out of the game.  Play reserve football for a
year and then start the new season on the bench, come into the team because the
first choice players are injured and play well in the second half for the
matches they start.  Beats playing consistantly well over a long period of
time.  Or do you have to be employed in the Metal Industry.

Chris
From: v087jsfu@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (DANNY)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Unvision?
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:19:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Does anyone know when Univision (F3/7) will start airing live
soccer again, and who is slated?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: bartjan@cs.kun.nl (Bart-Jan Bouwers)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Dutch Soccer Results
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:37:44 GMT

In <27AUG199214351378@kubvx1> tim@kubvx1 (Tim van der Avoird, Tilburg University) writes:


>Within a few days I will leave the Netherlands and I won't be back
>before March 1, 1993. I am highly interested in the results of the
>Dutch first and second division (in Dutch: ere- en eerste divisie).
>In the beginning of this season I saw some result posted on this
>newsgroup, but the last few weeks I haven't seen any.

>Could somebody please keep posting these results during this
>competion? During my stay in the U.S. (that's where I will be
>going) I will be able to check out these newsgroups.

Hi, I post the results of the second division on soc.culture.netherlands
since there were several people trying to post the results of both divisions
on this group. But they don't seem to do that quite regularly, so I will
post my second division results ALSO on rec.sport.soccer from now on. I hope
Joost Schraag will post the first division results then...      

>Thank you very much in advance.

>Tim

Bart-Jan
From: andy@rocky.gte.com (Andrew Busa)
Subject: WC Qualifying Result
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:14:36 GMT

St Vincent 2       Suriname 1

St. Vincent advances in Caribbean region.

Andy
From: seanb@cs.man.ac.uk (Sean Bechhofer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: New FIFA Goalkeeper Rule
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:53:17 GMT

J.M.Ross@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (J.M.Ross) writes:



[Discussion about the new back pass rule deleted]


>In last night's game between Southampton and Manchester Utd, Keith Monkou
>nudged a ball back to the keeper from just inside the goal-area which the
>goalie handled. From the resulting kick the referee had great difficulty in
>persuading Tim Flowers, the Southampton goalkeeper to keep his distance (i.e.
>stay on the goal-line as far from the ball as he could be). The ref blew for
>the kick to be taken, United delayed for a moment and Flowers came out of his
>goal and smothered the ball before the kick was even taken. He was booked and
>the United forwards were warned not to delay the kick again. The whole incident
>wasted about 2 minutes, so much for keeping the game flowing!

>James M. Ross



A friend of mine mentioned an incident in the Sheffield Wednesday vs.
Chelsea game from Saturday, which was featured on Match of the Day.
Evidentally, a ball was kicked forward from the Wednesday half, clipped off
a Chelsea player, ran past several Chelsea and Wednesday players and back
to Beasant in the Chelsea goal. He dribbled it around a bit, then picked it
up, at which point a free kick was awarded.  Now I didn't actually see the
incident myself, but it seems like this was a bit of over-zealous
refereeing, and unnecessary sticking to the rules. Surely a deflected long
ball such as this doesn't really count as a back pass? If it does, then I
think we could be in for an awful lot of controversial free kicks......
Comments, anybody?

While I'm here, he also mentioned another incident in the Tottenham vs.
Palace game. Spurs had a direct free kick, which Samways was lining up to
take. He dummied it and a player came out the wall, getting a booking for
encroaching on the free kick, an offence the referees have been told to
crack down on (and quite right in my book, too). Samways then tried the
same trick again, and was himself booked for ungentlemanly conduct!!! It's
a funny old game..... :-)

Cheers,


	Sean B
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Danish cup results
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:11:58 GMT
Organization: Federation Internationale de Football Association

Fourth round of Girocuppen (sic):

1/9:   AB - Br/ondby 2-3 (1-2)

       B1913 - Randers Freja 4-3 (2-2)

2/9:   Drag/or - /Olstykke 1-2 (0-1)

       Herf/olge - Avarta 1-2 (0-0)

       Hvidovre - Herning 4-3 (2-1,3-3)

       AaB - Nr. Aaby 5-0 (3-0)

       Viborg - Silkeborg 6-5 (1-1,2-2,3-3) after penalties.

       Vejle - Br/onsh/oj 5-0 (2-0)

       OB - Horsens 6-0 (4-0)

       Esbjerg - Naestved 3-6 (3-2,3-3)

3/9:   B1909 - Ikast 3-1 (2-1)

       

Fifth round (to be played on october the 7th):

       OB - Vejle

       FC K/obenhavn - Br/ondby

       Hvidovre - AGF

       Kastrup/Marienlyst - Lyngby

       Avarta - B1913

       /Olstykke - Naestved

       Viborg - AaB

       B1909 - Frem

Note that first best placed teams from last year (leagua)
joins the cup in this round.


I haven't seen any postings from Lars Fischer lately - I
assume that his news feed is giving him trouble (again)
and I will not duplicate his efforts by making a long resume
of the last round in Superligaen. The scores however were:

       B1909 - AGF 0-4 (0-2) 
         [Jan Bartram is back :-)]

       Naestved - Lyngby 2-1 (0-0)
         [2 goals by Mark Strudal]

       Silkeborg - Br/ondby 3-0 (0-0)
         [Br/ondby collapsed after 1-0]

       FC K/obenhavn - OB 1-1 (0-1)
         [OB proves that succes _can_ be bought]

       Frem - Aab 1-1 (1-1)
         [Zzzzzzzz]

Next round (6/9):  Lyngby - Silkeborg
                   AGF - Naestved
                   Br/ondby - FC K/obenhavn
                   OB - Frem
                   AaB - B1909 (not mentioned in my newspaper..)

-- 
Jesper Lauridsen       | Liverpool FC - 18xChampions, 5xCup Winner,
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk  |                4xEC1 and 2xEC3 Winner
          AGF and Liverpool FC for the 1993 EC2 final