From: Donna.D'Iorio@f7022.n124.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Donna D'Iorio)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: 1 Traditions
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:07:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:124/7022 - MAXUS World H, Dallas TX


    In Response to Drew Corrigan:
DC>From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
DC>Date: 21 Aug 92 05:03:44 GMT
DC>Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia

DC>But Tom, you and Justin Martyr disagree about the Millenium:

    Thought you might be interested in the following on the subject from
Daniel Gruber's "The Church and the Jews: The Biblical Relationship"--
    "The Millennium was anathema to Eusebuis because it meant the
restoration of Israel.  Though Augustine initially believed in a
millennial kingdom, he later changed his views.  He does not give the
reasons for this change, but faith in the Millennium had been declared
to be outside the established orthodoxy, and Augustine believed that it
was necessary to accept the established orthodoxy--'the Rule of Faith.'
    "Consequently, 'City of God' became the basis for much anti-Judaic
theology.  It 'de-Judaizes' the Bible and (some of) the promises of God.
Thus it distorts the nature and destiny of the Church.
    "Augustine says that faith in the Millennium was an error caused by
carnal desires.  Yet, he also says that when he believed in the
millennial reign of Messiah on the earth, he did not have those carnal
desires.  He did not believe in those 'materialist' things.  He himself
believed that 'some delights of a spiritual character were to be
available for the saints because of the presence of the Lord.'
    "Augustine still personally found that a 'notion...in some degree
tolerable.' It was not, however theologically tolerable to the Church
that was built on the Constantinian foundation."
    "Whether there actually were 'Chiliasts' or 'Millenarians' who
believed as Augustine said they did {"...that those who have risen again
will spend their rest in the most unrestrained material feasts, in which
there will be so much to eat and drink that not only will those supplies
keep within no bounds of moderation but will also exceed the limits even
of incredibility."} is not historically evident.  It is certainly
not what the writers of the New Covenant scriptures, like John
or Paul, believed or taught. It is not what those they taught, like
Papias or Polycarp, believed or taught to others.  It is not what the
Church prior to Origen, as Justin Martyr testifies, believed or taught.
    "So, in a sense, Augustine's rejection of such a belief is beside
the point. Such a belief should be rejected. It is not what the
Scriptures teach. But what do they teach? How does Augustine deal with
the scriptures?"
    "....Augustine rejects their {the words of scripture} normal sense,
because the normal sense cannot be reconciled with his concept of the
Church as the kingdom of God.  His interpretation is based not on the
text, but on his previous alteration of Paul's allegory. {Gal 4:24}
There are insurmountable problems with Augustine's 'spiritual'
interpretation, which many others following him adopted."
    "....There is nothing in the text that gives rise to, or supports,
Augustine's explanation.  Augustine's explanation turns the words into
nonsense.  It is, therefore, not an interpretation, but an imposition."
    "....The established orthodoxy of the Church declared that the
Millennium had to be allegorized and 'spiritualized.' Augustine accepted
the established orthodoxy of the Church as the 'Rule of Faith' by which
scripture had to be interpreted.  If we were to cut out from 'City of
God' this 'spiritualization' of the Millennium, we would find that
Augustine actually understands the Biblical sequence quite well. The
confusion and perplexity disappear quite quickly."
    "....Augustine understood the Scriptures. He knew what they taught.
But he also embraced the traditional teaching, the accepted orthodoxy of
the Church. He simply was unable to reconcile the two."   **D.D'Iorio

--  
Donna D'Iorio - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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