From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Experience points for roleplaying (was Re: Levels )
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:16:14 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Aug14.114821.14031@eng.cam.ac.uk> yt1@eng.cam.ac.uk (Y. Tremblay) writes:
 I wrote:
>>>Part of the reason they've advanced so slowly is that an awful lot 
>>>of their time is spent pursuing "sub-plots" in my campaign.  This
>>>involves lots of roleplaying, but doesn't earn them any adventuring
>>>experience points - although it does gain them valuable information,
>>>and generally make their lives more interesting and varied.
>
>    But, why don't you give any experience for roleplaying, solving a 
>plot ?  

Because that increases their "wiliness", their "knowlege", and their
"adventuring experience", but won't make them any better able to 
swing a sword / cast a spell.  The benefit they get from solving a
plot is in becoming better players, not in their characters' getting
more hit points.

>If it is what you want your player to do, then you should give
>them something for doing it.  

I think that what they get out of it is a highly enjoyable game, where 
they get to play their characters to the fullest, rather than just
concentrating on conflicts all the time.  

As for "tangible" reward (if you don't consider enjoyment and satisfaction
in playing to be tangible rewards), then there's the fact that they learn
lots of valuable information and gain helpful allies, which make them much
more "powerful", in the sense of being knowledgeable and having lots of
influence and political leverage.  Good information can be just as powerful
a weapon as a +5 flaming sword.

>Players are human, they won't do something 
>for nothing even if you say that they get advancement in the character
>concept/personality/background.  

Beg to differ, my player do that ALL THE TIME.  As a matter of fact, we
had a moment of hilarity a few playing sessions back, when one player
looked over his "adventuring record", and realized that his party hadn't
made any money or gained any experience points in the last 8 months of 
game-time.  Nobody wasn't upset, they thought it was hysterical that no
one had noticed (they had been too busy pursuing matters of "personal
interest" to do any real adventuring)...

My characters tend to spend time doing what people in the real world
would do - they visit friends, they fall in love, they read books,
they listen to stories, they learn to play musical instruments, they
travel, they do all kinds of non-adventuring stuff, that serves only
to expend the "role playing" aspects of the game, and does nothing
to earn them money or make them better in combat.  

>If (in "real life" (tm)) a company offer me a job intellectually
>interesting but without any salary, I say them: "f***".  I don't want
>to work in a factory but I want decent wage.  

Well, suppose you could make all the money you needed freelancing as
an independant contractor, and could have the rest of your time free
to do whatever struck your fancy - like exploring caves, reading
Homer, sailing around the world, visiting Paris, or whatever floats
your boat?  That's analogous to what my players are doing.  They
do plenty of adventuring, but they actually spend -more- time 
roleplaying personal stuff about their characters.

>The way you give experience points (IMHO) encourage hack'n slash since
>it is the only way to get a concrete award.  But maybe you have
>exceptional players...

Maybe I'm spoiled, and I -do- just have incredible players, who really
do care more about roleplaying than about powergaming.  I once just
-forgot- to give them experience points for killing a "true" dragon
(a beast that makes a monster manual dragon look like a jackrabbit).
They didn't notice until three playing sessions later (the next time
that they actually had a battle, and went to update their XP totals).

>>	Yep, they are NOW. But you mention later on that their first
>>"BIG" adventure was at 8-9th level. Taking the average 7 month
>>advancement time you mentioned, that means that they were playing for over
>>FOUR YEARS before doing major adventures.

Well, that was their first adventure that actually made a change in
"the way of the world".  Frankly I don't think low level characters
have any business playing a "critically important" role in cataclysmic
events.

>> I want to be a HERO, not
>>some apprentice who needs to take enough REAL WORLD time to finish
>>a bachelor's degree before he can even do something significant.

I suppose it depends what you call significant.  Before taking part in
world-shaking events, they got involved in such mundane tasks as
saving their chosen "home town" from an incursion of ogres; finding
and capturing a mad Druid, who had been raising woodland demons in an
attempt to "cleanse the forest of the scourge of humanity" (this was
years before the "green" movement got really popular, too :-); and
finding and returning the kidnapped daughter of a friendly Elf lord.

I mean, granted, those are only "important" events at a "local" level,
but they seemed important enough at the time, and the group was very
serious about, and proud of their accomplishments in the "good old
days".  If you don't enjoy those kinds of adventures, you probably
just wouldn't like my campaign.

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd