From: michael.smith@f842.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (michael smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon - Future
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:30:10 GMT

Original to: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
In a message of <10 Dec 92 07:46:21>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
(3:713/602) writes:

 BB> Hmm.. "Michael Smith"  (I think that must be his name) blathers
 BB> about PCs..

Yup... wow, you can actually make something out from the headers the IXgate
system adds to my somewhat more succinct message format?

 BB> Sheesh.. get a clue and join the "real world", Michael..

*sigh*.  Not a good start, Bob.

 BB> PC motherboards are ALL standard.. they ALL have their holes
 BB> in the same places..  they ALL have their slots in the same
 BB> places.

Hah. And you ask _me_ to join the 'real world'...

Having done my time in various sweatshops assembling the useless things, I
can tell you from long, painful experience that your preceeding paragraph is
just so much hogwash.  Show me a PC case, and a set of cards, that all fit
properly, and I will point at a machine fitted with cards made by the same
manufacturer, in metalwork they also designed, and which you will have paid
top $$$ for. (eg a "real name" brand, like Olivetti (AT&T), Compaq, etc.)

 BB> Geesh.. make me go into my Flash buffer to find more blather..
 BB> 
 BB> 8bit cards will work just fine with upgraded motherboards..
 BB> maybe not as fast as more expensive 16 bit cards, but they
 BB> WILL work..

Umm. You sure? ever notice the EPROM on an 8bit XT controller card? Wonder
where in the address space it fits? What it does? Where the registers on the
adapter are? Understand what I am saying? (I hope so, seeing as you claim to
have been a programmer, once).

Want to try putting your 5MHz, or even 8MHz cards in a "new" system
supporting 12 or 16MHz bus rates? And expect them to work?

Come on.  You know as well as I do that any significant upgrade leaves you
with your original power supply (maybe), box (again maybe) and keyboard (if
you can still read the keycaps).

 BB> "Mauling" metalwork (or plastic, actually) seems to be more
 BB> related to "upgrading" STs than PCs..  the openings in PC cases
 BB> are all standardized.. not so with Atari stuff.

*laugh*. I know what you mean about "upgrading" STs, but you're still not
there when it comes to the concept of "standardisation".

 BB> I dunno why I'd want to put a "real" AT sized motherboard in my
 BB> XT case, when there are "zillions" of "mini '386" motherboards
 BB> that will fit..  I guess you just don't have the background to
 BB> understand to make it worthwhile explaining THAT to you..

*sigh*... you're still not seeing the point.  I was refuting your "it's
simple to upgrade" claim, not arguing technical dribble with you.

 BB> Guess what, Michael.. for $65, I not only got a nice "mini tower"
 BB> case with digital speed readout, but also a 220 Watt power
 BB> supply...  do you think Howard's claims will invalidate a
 BB> 220 Watt supply..?

Aha. Go on, for, say $30 you get a new keyboard, and say $200 for a new
monitor... keep going & add it up... say? isn't it cheaper to buy a
_NEW_COMPUTER_? Funny, that.

 BB> Maybe someday when they have time, the girls in the Terminals
 BB> department where I work will have time to explain things to you..

*smile* nice, almost, comeback.  Maybe I'll get the chance to teach them a
few things as well... then, if you're lucky, they'll pass them on to you...
unless you're too old for their liking.

See? Did you like that? Come on Bob. I know you don't take personally
directed replies very well, but at least have the good grace to listen to
someone whose spent some time actually _doing_ the work.  

I "dropped" a 386sx board into my old 286 case last night... I'm no newbie
to the changeover/building game, as I have tried to tell you.  It took near
on an hour to get it back together, and then I had to pull in a favour on a
friend because none of the 4 different IDE paddle boards I had would work
with the new board... Not to mention that it (16MHz) can't run zero
waitstate on 80ns DRAMs... great stuff, guys.

So much for 'easy'. And if I didn't have the experience, or the contacts, it
wouldn't have been "easy" at all... it would have been _very_expensive_.

 BB> BobR

TANSTAAFL.  You know what it means. And please, can it with the cheap
wisecracks and oracular omnipotence. I am _not_ some frothing newbie with a
severe case of authority worship, or a brainless bimbette from the Terminals
Dept.

\`miff`                                                       /|\

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