HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Folklore (was Re: WELCOME + CHARTER)
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:43:00 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Aug3.175752.3892@octel.com>, richard@octel.com (Richard Karasik) writes:
> In article <1992Jul31.161115@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul31.135447.17128@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>,
>>julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>>>                      [...deleted...]
>>> Here's one:
stuff deleted...
>>> 
>>> Cardamon:  chew a cardamon seed (never buy ground cardamon!) to
>>> freshen your breath.  This is Scandanavian folklore and it does work
>>> well in addition to tasting good!
>>


I read a few days ago in one of those AP teaser's in the Denver Post, that
they have discovered that chewing cardamon seeds not only freshens breath,
but it helps prevent cavaties.  Some scientist-types apparently were 
researching why certain groups of Muslims have better teeth than others,
and what they found was that the groups with better teeth chew cardamon.
Interesting, eh?  We'll have cardamon toothpaste soon, I'd bet.

Kellie Matthews-Simmons
internet::matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Native American Fermented Fish.
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Aug 92 10:43:38 CDT

There is a piece on National Public Radio right now about the Upic 
Natives in Bethel Alaska and how they prepare rotten or fermented
fish and store them for winter use in the perma frost.  I can't
recall the name of the native reader, but he described the 
process in detail.

(I have no Idea if I am spelling things right I am trying to 
write what I hear)

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.

Xref: sparky rec.food.historic:307 rec.gardens:5990 rec.food.veg:7829
From: weaver@jetsun.weitek.COM (Michael Gordon Weaver)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.gardens,rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Traditional recipe for marshmallow
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:47:26 GMT
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug14.074017.12170@trl.oz.au> starkie@eddore.trl.oz.au (Brad Starkie) writes:
>I read some place that originally marshmallows where made from
>the root of the marshmallow plant. Given that this has pink flowers
>I suspect that they were used also. Anyhow I now have a marshmallow
>plant, has anyone got a recipe?
>
>PS Even if its not authentic I'd appreciate a recipe without gelatine
>or boiled calves hooves.
>
>Brad Starkie

This may not be helpful, but I have noticed that some (pricy)
commercial marshmallows are made starch and not gelatin. The
ingredients were sugar, water and starch.

Michael.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: mcharry@mitre.org (John McHarry(J23))
Subject: Re: Apples Apples everywhere
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:23:58 GMT

In <5736@transfer.stratus.com> moser@sw.stratus.com (Tom Moser) writes:

>apples that have partially rotted. I have put them in my compost heap
>in the past and I believe that some whitetail deer have eaten some of them.
>I was wondering if these can be used for anything more useful.

They make excellent chili or sausage.

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: dadams@cherry10.cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Vinegar in Pickles (was: Imported food)
Originator: dadams@cherry10
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:07:36 CDT


 (Martin Golding) writes:

> And as long as we're on the subject, I've been looking into pickles,
> (vegetables preserved for storage using brines or vinegars or both)
> trying to figure out where they came from, and who started putting vinegar
> in them. 

The fermentation process started putting the vinegar in.  ;^)
Was it the acetobacter or the lactobacilli?  It must have
been the acetobacter, but that would imply there was some
alcohol in the process.  Is there some one who can 
explain this.

Really it seems to me that use of vinegar is as modern as
canning (or bottleing).  This allowed the homemaker to 
skip the brine curing or fermentation process.


-- 
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer)
Subject: Re: Potatoes in Europe 
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:07:23 GMT

Just a note for the potato historians...

Jane Austen's nephew J.E. Austen-Leigh, in _A Memoir of Jane Austen_,
wrote (speaking of the 1770's):

"Potatoes were used, but not so abundantly as now; and there was an idea
that they were only to be eaten with roast meat.  They were novelties to 
a tenant (farmer)'s wife who was entertained at Steventon Parsonage,
certainly less than a hundred years ago; and when Mrs Austen advised her
to plant them in her own garden, she replied "No, no; they are very well for
you gentry, but they must be terribly costly to rear."

If a farmer's wife in Hampshire took them for hothouse plants, it seems
unlikely that potatoes were a common vegetable, at least in that part
of England!

Are there any Janeites out there who might know more about this?

                                  -- Sara Greer
                                     (by way of her spouse's account)
From: martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Imported food (was curry)
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:50:26 GMT
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

dcoder@u.washington.edu writes:

: Which brings me to the next thought. How much of the regional cooking in the  
: world is changing with the tendency of rapid communications and transport to  
: produce an increasingly homogenous world culture? 

On the down side, there are too many hamburger stands in the world,
and far too many "continental" restaurants.

On the up side, imported foods are often absorbed into local cultures.
Imagine the Americas with no wine or beer...  southern US food without okra,
African, Indian, Chinese, and Thai food with no chile peppers.

As long as there are identifiable local cuisines, spreading the raw materials
is good. The risk is that the dishes themselves will be so cheap, or so easy
to prepare, or just so stylish, that they will replace, rather than be
accommodated in, the indigenous ones.

And as long as we're on the subject, I've been looking into pickles,
(vegetables preserved for storage using brines or vinegars or both)
trying to figure out where they came from, and who started putting vinegar
in them. I am reaching the conclusion that there was no American pickle.

Does anyone know of a reasonably respectable source that indicates that salt
or vinegar were used to preserve vegetables in the Americas before the
invasions? Records of salted meats would be interesting as well, since
I think the method crossed over.

I do remember one Alaskan pickled green, but I don't know if the recipe
pre-dates the Europeans, or perhaps was an arctic circle tradition and
didn't spread to the south.


Martin Golding   | If there were a God,
   DoD #236      |  cocoa butter would be monounsaturated.
[motcsd!]mcspdx!adpgate!martin
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:08:14 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group

In article <j-9mx9b.greg@netcom.com> greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.214920.3655@ils.nwu.edu> wallis@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (Mindy Wallis) writes:
>>
>>As far as I know Cornish pasties are virtually unknown in most regions of
>>the United States, but I found that they were sold in several places in the
>>Upper Penninsula of Michigan.  Does anyone know why?  Is there a large
>>Cornish population there, and if so, why? 
>
>If so, theey must be geographically confused. Everything must seem reversed,
>East to West and North to South from the geography of Cornwall!
> 

I have my doubts about the geographical/immigration patterns for the
presence of pasties in the U.S. I learned to make them from a Swedish
Finn; where he got the recipe I don't know, but his called for the
Scandanavian touch of adding a little allspice to the meat.

Further, my area is not much of mining area and we don't have a large
Cornish population, but we do have frozen pasties in the supermarket
freezers. And we also have an English restaurateur who sells them in
his Unicorn restaurant, who used to vend them (and may still) from a
pushcarts under the name Costermonger, and who manufactures several
frozen varieties for said supermarkets.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Vinegar in Pickles (was: Imported food)
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:42:37 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <1490@adpplz.UUCP> martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding) writes:
>
>And as long as we're on the subject, does kim chee _always_ include some
>kind of seafood, or just usually?
>
>
Some do, some don't.  There are a bazillion different kinds of kimchee, and
I think each family has it's own favorite recipes.  I lived in Korea for a
year, and do remember small dried shrimp in a lot of the cabbage
kimchees.

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.gardens,rec.food.veg
From: starkie@eddore.trl.oz.au (Brad Starkie)
Subject: Traditional recipe for marshmallow
Organization: Telecom Research Labs,Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:40:17 GMT

I read some place that originally marshmallows where made from
the root of the marshmallow plant. Given that this has pink flowers
I suspect that they were used also. Anyhow I now have a marshmallow
plant, has anyone got a recipe?

PS Even if its not authentic I'd appreciate a recipe without gelatine
or boiled calves hooves.

Brad Starkie
From: sszeller@us.oracle.com (Scott S. Zeller)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:27:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Aug14.182754.28775
Organization: Oracle Corporation
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <=93mlj.mdk1@netcom.com> mdk1@netcom.com (Mark Kaplanoff) writes:
>>
>Many Cornishmen were traditionally miners (because of the tin mines in
>Cornwall).  It's just a guess, but might Cornishmen have gone to the
>Upper Peninsula of Michigan to work in the iron mines in the late
>nineteenth century?
>>

Though I can't confirm that, I do know that southern Wisconsin (the Platteville
area) was settled by Cornish lead miners.  I'm not sure if Platteville has any
restaurants serving Cornish cuisine, but my guess would be that (as 
historically-concious as the area seems to be) there would certainly be some 
historical society with authentic recipes.  I do know of a wonderful restaurant
that specializes in Cornish pasties; it is in Madison and used to be located
adjacent to the state capitol (it's been a few years, so I don't know if it is
still in existence).

-Scott
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: rons@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ronald Schoenberg)
Subject: Re: why chile-hot food?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:04:20 GMT

In article <SPIKE.92Aug11172012@coke.std.com> spike@coke.std.com (Joe Ilacqua) writes:
>
>	I saw a study a few years back which explained why people eat
>HOT peppers this way.  Pepper are not an irritant, but cause a
>chemical reaction that confuses your taste buds.  Your taste buds
>report to your brain that someone just stuffed a red hot poker in your
>mouth.  You brain responds by releasing endorphines (spelling?),
>natural pain killers simular to heroin and morphine.  You feel GREAT
>and have another pepper.
>
>	So there you have it, Hot Peppers are a drug addition.
>
>->Spike

When I was at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, MD, a
colleague there in the National Institute Mental Health who did
research on the brain told me that chiles contain a neurotransmitter
precursor.  Thus chiles are also psychedelic.
Xref: sparky rec.food.historic:329 rec.food.cooking:14819
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:54:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.36837
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <HEWITT.92Aug13181258@argus.gemed.com> hewitta@aslpet.med.ge.com writes:
>In Wales as recently as the fifties, it was common to bake a pasty, wrap it
>in a towel and put it in the miner's lunchbox.  It would still be warm
>several hours later when he ate it.  This implies a fairly dry recipe.
>
>Cornish pasties are common in the Milwaukee area, even sold frozen in the
>local supermarkets.  No mines around here, though.



Anyone know where I can get Cornish pasties, sausage rolls, Aussie
meat pies, etc., here in San Diego...?



Tom Marvan.
From: grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:50:16 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Well, since no one else seems to be posting a recipe for these, here's
mine, from a WWII vintage English baking book.

Cornish Pasties

Crust:   4 c flour              1 1/3 c shortening (soft)
         4 tsp baking powder    1 c hot water
         2 tsp salt             2 tbsp lemon juice
               2 *unbeaten* egg yolks

Sift together dry ingredients.  Cream shortening, egg yolk, and lemon juice.
Dump this into the flour, then pour in the hot water and stir in until well
mixed.  Chill.

Filling: 1 lb. round steak, cut into cubes 1/4 in. square or smaller.  (This
            is important, as the meat goes raw into the pasties.)
         1 c raw potatoes, finely diced 
         1 raw onion, ditto       2 1/2 tbsp butter
         1/2 c heavy cream        salt, pepper, celery and parsley
                                      (chopped finely) - no amounts given)

Blend meat, potatoes, onion, and seasonings.  Divide the dough into 4
equal pieces; roll each out into a plate-sized circle, 1/4 in. thick,
10 in. across.  Place 1/4 of the filling on one side of the circle, well
away from the edges (to facilitate sealing) and dot with butter.  Wet
the edges of the pastry, fold over, and pinch firmly to seal.  Prick the
tops of the pasties to let steam out.  Bake for about two hours at 325 F.
After 1 hr. 45 m., cut a slit in the top of each pasty and insert 2 tbsp
cream.

Serves 4 to 8, depending on appetite.  To make it even more authentically  
Cornish, substitute 3/4 c very finely diced turnip for the same amount of
the onion.

This dough also makes great piroshki, if you're into Russian food.


                                         -- Sara Greer
                                            (by way of my spouse's account)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Imported food (was curry)
From: bellmar@gargoyle.uchicago.edu (Mary Bellmar)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:05:09 GMT
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In <JUSTIN92Aug17.164045@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:

>In article <1992Aug14.132424.15211@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:
>>[I'm not sure where the eggplant was,
>>but I have the idea that was American too.]

>Definitely not. We've done a feast based on 13th century Muslim Spain,
>and found that a *large* percentage of the dishes are based on eggplant.
>(Damned good stuff, too -- the Islamic cookbooks of that period have
>some absolutely fabulous food in them...)

>So, while it may well have been pretty much unknown to most of Europe
>in the Middle Ages, it was certainly known to at least some cultures...

Could you possibly post a couple of those recipes?

Mary


>				-- Justin du Coeur
>				   Who fried a few bazillion eggplant
>				     fritters for that event. They all
>				     got eaten, too...

>Random Quote du Jour:

>"Why is it that many folks find a malleable, very human document like
> the Society's Corpora, that was formed by the anvil and tongs of
> vigorous debate, and want to turn it into dead words engraved in marble?"
>		-- Bertram of Bearington
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
From: john@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (John Q. Generic)
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:26:51 PDT
Organization: California State University, Fresno

In article <HEWITT.92Aug13181258@argus.gemed.com> hewitta@aslpet.med.ge.com writes:
>In Wales as recently as the fifties, it was common to bake a pasty, wrap it
>in a towel and put it in the miner's lunchbox.  It would still be warm
>several hours later when he ate it.  This implies a fairly dry recipe.
>
>Cornish pasties are common in the Milwaukee area, even sold frozen in the
>local supermarkets.  No mines around here, though.
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Anthony V. Hewitt                  Phone 414 548-5170 (GE Dialcom 8*320-5170)
>Senior Physicist
>General Electric Company             Fax 414 548-5197 (8*320-5197)
>P.O.Box 414, W-641
>Milwaukee, WI 53201                    Internet: hewitta@aslpet.med.ge.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Your comments imply that my early training about pasties were urban /
rural legends.  I've eaten pasties throughout my life (some Irish
blood on my father's side made it to California), and was told that
the miners would "heat pasties on their shovels."  They are sort-of
good, but too heavy for my taste. 


--
+----------------------------+   ||| | || |   "Sweetness, sweetness I was only
| -John  (The Generic John)  |   ||| | || |    joking when I said I'd like to
| john@csufres.csufresno.edu |   ||| | || |    smash every tooth in your head."
+-----------"Moo"------------+   666 1 13 0               -The Smiths
From: jimd@spider.co.uk (Jim Darroch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: QUESTION: Origins of Chili (pepper)
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:51:59 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

Hi,

I know this thread has been discussed over in rec.food.cooking, but I 
wasn't paying attention, so...

Is the Chili (i.e. "Chili Pepper", the small red/green hot thing)
indigenous to India?  I know it's use is very common in Indian cooking,
but I seem to remember reading that the plant is not a natural inhabitant 
of India, but was introduced by travellers at some point in the 
(relatively) recent past.

If this is the case (i.e. that the Chili is *not* a natural inhabitant
of India) does anyone know from what part of the world it was brought
into India, and the approximate time period during which this occured?

Thanks in advance for any info,





-- 
Jim Darroch            *                          * jimd@spider.co.uk (email)
Spider Systems Limited *    "Open To Everyone"    * 031 555 5166      (phone)
Stanwell St, Edinburgh *                          * 031 555 0664        (fax)
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: 22 Aug 92 18:57:25 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> BSI scare, we stuck to the vegetarian pasties, figuring the meat was
  ^^^ Oops.  BSE.  Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis.   -- Kay
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Date: 22 Aug 92 22:49:07 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

blackman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Cancholech) writes:
> does anyone have mead recipes?

Don't know about authenticity, but here's one from my undergraduate
microbiology lab manual-- the mead was well received by class members,
in contrast to the wine and beer we made...

1/4 orange
1/4 lemon
1/2 lb honey
nutrient solution*
1 500 ml flask with air trap to fit flask**
Yeast starter culture: Maury yeast or all-purpose wine yeast
1 hydrometer

Add honey to 250 ml water and bring the solution to a boil, stirring
constantly to prevent carmelization.  Allow the solution to cool, adding
juice from orange and lemon quarters, then yeast and nutrient solution.
Adjust specific gravity of solution to 1.093 (12-13% potential alcohol).
Place solution in flask and add air lock.  Ferment until no more CO2
is evolved.  Rack mead into another container when completed.


*nutrient solution: 4 gm (NH4)2SO4 + 0.5 gm MgSO4 + 2 g KH2PO4 dissolved
in minimal water.  Use the entire quantity for 1000 ml mead; use proper
proportion for other amounts. 

**the air trap is just a rubber stopper with a piece of plastic or
glass tubing bent down to fit into a container of water.

From: DP Durand, PA Patee, FD Williams & PA Hartman.  1973.  MELE.
         Iowa State University, Ames, IA.


Kay Klier    Biology Dept  UNI
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Date: 22 Aug 92 18:55:27 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

The pasties I ate in Corwall, Devon and Wales were all fairly sturdy 
affairs (which was why we bought them-- they had to survive being
toted in a backpack all day by field biologists who tend to be gentle
to specimens and rough on anything else...).   They actually made better 
field food than my usual choice in this country-- cheese and hard rolls--
at least they survived the pack better!

The crusts were more like the casing around Beef Wellington in texture 
than an American pie crust, even the cardboard crusts that I made
when I was learning to make pie crusts.  I'd guess that they were some
sort of hotwater pastry...  Since we were there in the height of the 
BSI scare, we stuck to the vegetarian pasties, figuring the meat was
probably equivalent to US hot-dog fodder...

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI 
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: starkie@eddore.trl.OZ.AU (Brad Starkie)
Subject: Re: Cornish pasties
Keywords: recipes?
Organization: Telecom Research Labs,Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 07:32:22 GMT

In article <sooz.713482238@vincent1.iastate.edu> sooz@iastate.edu (Susan F Bradley) writes:
>Hi!
>   This might not be the right group to post this to, but it's the only food-
>related one I read, so here goes:
>   Does anybody out there have a good recipe for authentic Cornish pasties. I
>realize that they probably don't involve much - some meat, spices, etc. in a 
>flake pastry, but I'd like a reasonably authentic recipe. 
>   Ever so grateful!
>
>Susan Bradley
>sooz@iastate.edu

I don't have an exact receipe though I probably have one at home.
Cornish pasties traditionally don't have any meat or spices.
They were the food of poor coal miners after all. The usual ingredients are 
potatoes, turnips , parsnips, carrots and peas. 
Herbs rather than spices would be the flavouring; rosemary, sage thyme and salt.

The main thing that makes a cornish pastie different from another
pastie is the shape , tall rather than flat, with curled edges.

Cornish pasties are not uncommon in Oz. 1 time in 5 it'll have meat in
it but thats not authentic. My personal belief is that shortcrust pastry
would have been used rather than flaky pastry but this is just a hunch
as most recipes for flaky pastry I've seen involve a freezer or cold
water and lots of butter and effort. Another reason I think this is
because my grandfather came from somewhere around there and my mother
only ever made shortcrust pastry in her pies. But then my grandmother 
was Irish and they have a funny way with pies, they only put the pastry on
the top.


Brad Starkie.