HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: CONTROVERSY KHATAM
Keywords: Ahmadiyya Islam
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:21:24 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada



Nabeel,
It is better to ignore such crap. Ignoring is best pesticide for such
creatures.

You will see (and have seen) many examples of classic dirty maulvi mentality.
Perhaps many will understand what I meant by saying that Maulvis always
descend to dirty tricks/language when beaten in every field of arguments.

And this is the only thing they do best..............defenders of Islam!!!!

Nasir
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:54:28 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Texas A&M University


|> In article <mirza.702608758@mira.sce.carleton.ca> mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza) writes:
|> >assalam alaikum behan ji,

|> >Saudi Arabia is a good model to look at (image of the situation in above para.)
|> >
|> >What is happening there? 
|> >
|> >Women sit at home (tang pay tang dal kar) and conduct the affairs like a real
|> >master, aur tou aur aik aik kilo sona phen kar - baichari suppressed women.
|> >Gari Chalanay Aik Nahi Dou driver, our darjanoun noukranian, haye baicharian.
|> >If you go to Saudi Arabia (ofcourse with a Mehram) then ask around how are
|> >women being treated or you can confirm this from your relatives or friends who
|> >have lived there for a while. 
|> 

						   (many kilos!)
Yeah right! In India we deck up the cows with ornaments and even pray to it.
                   				       ^
But when it stops giving milk or if it happens to stray into paddy fields,

we beat the shit out of it. But the cows never complain or try to escape. 

I guess they really love the respect that we give them. 

regards,
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: LUMS recruiting in US.
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:00:29 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


I received the following letter from Dr. Zahoor Hassan asking for
assistance from Pakistanis at several universities in reserving a
hall/table for Lahore Unviersity of Management Sciences to introduce
themselves to prospective students, faculty, and friends. Your time
would go a long way in supporting the only private "complete"
unviersity in Pakistan.

The itenary of the visitors is followed by his letter to myself. If
you live/work/study in any of the following places, please let me know
(via email) if you can reserve a hall.


22nd-26th April       Univ of Texas  (Dallas/Houston/Texas)

27th April-2nd May    NY/DC Universities (Open to invitation)

 2nd-7th May          Boston/Cambrige (MIT, Harvard, Boston, Northeastern)

 7th-8th May          Michigan (Ann Arbor)

 8th-14th May         USC, UCLA, UCSB

14th-19th May         Open in US/Canada

-------- The SZH letter follows ----

March 24, 1992 

Dr. Salman Azhar,
Duke University
Computer Science Department
Durham, NC 27705
U.S.A.


Dear Salman,

	I hope you are doing well personally and professionally and that
your research is progressing well. 

	Towards late April, I, and possibly another faculty member, Wasif 
Khan are planning a trip to the U.S.  Broadly, the trip has several
objectives: 

	1) To identify, and contact potential faculty and explain
the opportunities at LUMS to them.  These can be people (Pakistanis)
who are already teaching at business schools or in related subject
areas like yourself, or younger people who are completing a quality 
Masters' program and maybe future faculty for us.  

	2) To identify students currently in undergraduate and graduate
(other than business) programs who may be potential candidates for our
MBA program. 

	3) If possible, to meet a few faculty members and discuss current 
development in management education with them. 

	4) If possible, to meet a few high networth Pakistanis in America
and introduce what LUMS has done, with the objective of soliciting
financial support for the student scholarship program, etc.                  

	For our visit to the United States, I would like you to let me
know the specific areas where you can help us by providing logistical
support in getting the message out and deciding on suitable venues etc
plus any other arrangements that may need to be made for our effort.
Please also indicate your availability during the 4 weeks we plan
to spend in the US. 

	With best regards


									Yours sincerely



									Zahoor Hassan, PhD
									Associate Professor




-- 
 I must, with emotional fire, burn or illume myself
 I must, with the heat of passion, melt or sublime myself
 I must, in flood of tears, drown or cleanse myself
 I must! I must! I must! For my people and myself -- D. Salman [Q] Azhar
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Tuesday, 7 Apr 1992 04:50:45 EDT
From: Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'Ham agai to garmia bazar dekhna'

Aggrawal Saheb :

      I do not want to talk to you, go to your area and enjoy there.  I am happ
y with my countrymen and my brothers and why you are dragging me again.  I have
least concern with hindu.  There are many hindu, they are my friend but they be
have nicely, my room-mate is hindu and his elder brother (a prof at univ. of mi
ch ) came and told me that you r (I am) elder brother to him.  But the problem
is that I hate the people who attacked on base. Somebody told me I spitton you
, I told him even I do not think of you spitting.  I am sorry.  Salam.
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Thanks God
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:11:56 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

I missed the part of the verse, here is the missing one

 Zaalik Al-Kitaab o La Riba feeh
Hudal-lil- Muttaqeen
(This is the Book(Quran), there is no doubt in it.
 This is guide for God Fearing people)

 I don't have any english translation book with me right now.
From: ngrjn@milton.u.washington.edu (V Nagarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Re Karachi is mini pak
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:52:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr15.215545.18790@acsu.buffalo.edu> memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon) writes:
.
.
.
>
>Imrana's interpretation of the micro-organism was interesting to read. Again
>if I could just mention one think that bothers me being the Karachiite is that
>we have not attributed the problems of Karachi to the influx of refugees  
>after the 79 Iranian revolution, and the Afghan war. In the riots of 77 between
>the PNA-PPP etc, there were no heavy weapons used whereas throughout the
>80s the influx of Afghans contributed to the demise of peace in the
>city of lights. I mean we are talking rocket launchers from Defence.  Also 
>no Karachiite would dispute that Karachi was'nt the same city after the Bushra
>Zaidi case in North Karachi.
>

	A very profound observation that, about the escalation of violence
	following the Afghan war. Kalashnikovs and AK-47s have become the
	weapons of choice everywhere in the subcontinent except for B'desh.
	I believe all this can be traced to the unprecedented increase in
	the availability of such weapons, thanks to the US and the erst-
	while USSR. Now, even a minor grouse easily turns into a major
	street battle costing many lives.

							- Nagarajan
From: salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: test
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:45:57 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia


Peace be with you all, now and always. Salam.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: obaid@bullet.ecf.toronto.edu (OBAID  ARIF)
Subject: Re: Pakistan, Karachi aur XYZ..............
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:13:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.000601.19207@athena.mit.edu> anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM) writes:
>
>In the continueing string, "Pakistan is the place to live, not xyz.." 
   [lots of stuff deleted]  
>
> >Salman [Pakistani by birth, enlightened by the grace of God] Azhar
> >Imrana[brought up in Karachi, born in Pakistan]Zaheer
>
>  ADIL [born in Pindi, raised in Peshawar, studied in Karachi,
>	           loves Lahore........Proud to be a Pakistani] NAJAM


I say, well written well said
Day tambi, very well spoken
I say, just came back to scp and find first article like this...

Oh ho....make dil very khush hal you know....

Nadeem [still searching for shanakhti card and domecile to find out where I fit in Pakistan] Siddiqi
From: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Harassment? Toba, Toba!
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:46:11 GMT
Reply-To: ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid)
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <1992Apr10.021526.20743@wuecl.wustl.edu>, mss1@cec1.wustl.edu
(Muhammad Sajid Saeed) writes:
> First, what harassment??? All was said in jest! Bad taste,maybe, but
> harassment,toba toba! The fun now resumes...
> 
> Widen your horizons, atom heart mother!
> 
> >	I am not sure which episode you are taling about.
> 
> What am I "taling" about? The "First" Cut! The initiation of scp into
> cult music ala Floyd lyrics.
> 
> >Who died and made you incharge of this noosegroup. I am sorry
> >this is not Pakistan where you can scare someone not to do things.
> 
> By Jove, did I have my NRA id somewhere in my postings or what? Or did
> I just sound like Sultan Rahi ?  And about me being incharge of this "noose
> group" (nice coinage here!) : Did you mean I was made incharge of scp
> by the person AFTER he died or BEFORE he died? Apparently you meant the
> former and that seems hard! And did you not know that back in the Wild
> West era, I WAS quite an angler with nooses? So I guess I'd be the
> heir apparent of the imaginary scp moderator !
> 
> 
> >	taking cheep shots at the school
> Pretty cheep,eh? Miss Manners and her misdemeanors!
> 
> >> A momentary lapse of reason here?                                  
> >No perhaps you are 'awake at the verge of insanity' 
> Wide awake too! And it's killing me! "Brain damage", I guess...
> 
> >>	Am I banging my head against a 'Wall' ?
> >		Yes!! be careful it will start bleeding.
> Oh don't you worry about that. It'd take a lot of "Bricks in the wall" before
> there's a crack "in the flesh"!
> 
> 
> >>			Does someone need some thought control here ?   
> >	You do!!
> I do! I do! 
> 
> >Faryal // these are my thoughts, and not school
> Maybe someday you'll have a school of thought of your own. Scary, though!

>>God is real, unless declared integer
>My God is for real, however declared!

>"When you're one of the few to land on your feet
>what do you do to make ends meet


Yeah to theek thaak  phadaah ho raha hai.  Kaffi  mirch massala hai.
 
----------------------------------------------------
SOHBAN SHAHID             e-mail ss511583@longs.lance.ColoState.Edu
Civil Engg. Dept.         (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
Colorado State University (303) 224 0397  (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523
From: az1@ukc.ac.uk (A.Zafar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: london and the mai'm
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:21:45 GMT
Reply-To: az1@ukc.ac.uk (A.Zafar)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <1992Apr15.165256.6431@leland.Stanford.EDU> arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:
[deleted]
>So there i was roaming the streets of london, fully aware that all the english
>eyes were on me. Is he an indian or a paki. The english are in total awe 
>of paki's ( aftere winning the world cup) to such an extent that some poor
>indians are impersonating as paki's. 

	Strange that I study here and have not noticed it. Just incase the
readers don't know, when Pakistan won the Cup, 20,000 people were celebrating
the victory in the streets of South Hall.

--
			 - Aman Zafar 			_   /|
			 - University of Kent 		\'o.O'
			 - England. 			=(___)=	
							   U
From: m21757@mitre.org (G)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: 'burqa and muslim women'
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:41:17 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <1992Apr10.004659.25540@yuma.acns.colostate.edu> 
ss511583@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Sohban Shahid) writes:
> Some unknown  G   writes....
> 
> >I commend you!    The idea of women covering everything but the hands 
and 
> >face comes from a Sahih hadith (Muslim)  wher a _man_ asks the prophet 
> >(PBUH)  how a woman should dress (i.e. what a woman can show).  
Rasulallah 
> >did not _say_ anything but rather pointed to the head and arms.  I 
believe 
> >this is now understood as face and hands.  The concern here then is: 
> >Rasulallah has said not to ask too many questions of him in their zeal 
to 
> >be the best Muslim, otherwise their would be too many restrictions on 
the 
> >people; and he did not want the peoples life to be too difficult.  
> >Secondly according to this Hadith, women may _not_ show their feet, 
since >
> >Rasulallah did not point to the feet.  So if we follow this hadith 
exactly 
> >all women should wear socks all the time!!!
> 
> 
>  Everything is O.K  but please give some respect to holy prophet Muhammad
> (MPBUH) when you are writing something related to him.  The word
> Rasoolallah alone doesn't seem respectful.  Please don't mind its a 
request
> only.

Absolutely!!  I was having trouble with my system and was not able to 
fully proofread the article before posting.  (I was afraid I might have 
not posted at all or posted many times).  I believe I corrected this and 
reposted with proper respect.  I don't mind, helpful criticism can only 
help everyone.

G 




> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> SOHBAN SHAHID              e-mail ss511583@longs.lance.ColoState.Edu
> Civil Engg. Dept.                    (303) 491 5844/8204 (work)
> Colorado State University (303) 224 0397  (home)
> Ft. Collins, CO-80523
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Sunday, 12 Apr 1992 21:15:03 EDT
From: Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
 <1992Apr11.133825.30008@davidsys.com>

Salam alaikum :

  The verses referred by Ms. Yasmeen is not true representation of Holy Quran.
  I already wrote these verses again in my last post i.e of Ahzab.  She specif
ically wrote that 'purdah is for the family of prophet(s)' but the direct verse
s of Quran says 'for family of the prophet(s) and muslim beliving women'.Furthe
r she refused to accept the hadiths and its validity.  She might knows Quran be
tter than Prophet Mohammed(S) or leadings jurists of Islam who spent their live
s on the issue.  May Allah helps us to understand Quran and save us from
collecting sin.  Salam.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: Dress and Modesty
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 18:06:18 GMT

In article <703017785@volga.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>>I recently picked up Maulana Maudoodi's book entitled *Purdah and the
>>Status of Women*.  One of the first things which struck me was that
>>most of the book was his opinion without many relevent verses from
>>the Quran.  Another was that the Hadith he referenced were mostly from
>>sources other than Sahih Bukhari and Muslim.  The verses in the Quran
>>that he did reference (the ones I recognized) did not match the
>>translations (specifically the Pickthall translation) I am familiar with.  
>
>	   I all fairness, Maulana Maududi usually took a stand against
>anything reminscient of "rights for women". However, in my opinion, it
>takes nothing away from his a frist class religious scholar who was
>influenced by his surroundings like rest of us. Even the most
>respected religious schoalrs (like Imam Malik) have reformed some of
>their original stands after being exposed to new cultures. Maulana
>Maududi is no weaker in this aspect than any other human being.
>
>	   It is not in the spirit of Islam to accuse Maulana Maududi of
>doctoring Quran's translation, if it does not agree with Pickthall's
>translation. The truth is that Maulana's interpretation of the some
>verses was a little different from other religious scholars. His
>interpretation of 33:32-35 (Surah-al-Ahzab = The Allies verse 32),
>comes to to mind. M. Shakir translates it as....


	Mr. Azhar posted a very supportive article for which I thank
	him.  I would like to clarify however that I am not accusing
	Maulana Maudoodi of doctoring the Quran.  That implies 
	willfully changing something in the Quran, the mere thought
	of which is abhorred by Muslims.  The problem is that these
	are translations.  There is not a direct translation of
	ancient Arabic into English and many words have been translated
	in different ways depending on the interpretations of the
	translator.  Of the translations I have read, I had not seen
	a more conservative translation than Mr. Maudoodi's.  I wanted
	to point out that there existed other translation/interpretations
	which were less conservative than his and more widely accepted.

Khudahafiz

Yasmin



**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
*                                   *                                    *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
*                                   *              Proverb               *
**************************************************************************
From: umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Reply #3 to Mr. Jamal Mubarak
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:36:17 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <+Ah+1j#@engin.umich.edu> jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak) writes:

>Mr Noor I am seriously getting worried about you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

???


>Get this through your thick head Mr Noor, it *does* mean last.  Why else
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Very Good!
Didn't I agree with this? Only if you had read my post carefully, you would
have come to know that I didn't only agree with this meaning but also 
supplied an example which does give a meaning of last from Khatam.

>And indeed you have not brought even a *single* reference that *is*
>accessible to me.  What can I say?

This time the debate was not with help of other references but Quran. Can't
you find that!

IMPORTANT NOTE (please read before you hit ``f''):

Sir,
The whole picture should be clear to you and many others now. We are
going in opposite directions. I agree to disagree with you.
At this moment I would like to draw your attention to a recent post
by Mr. Nabeel Rana, in which he argues that if Ahmadiyya Islam was started
by a bunch of liars and is followed by enemies of Allah and Hazrat Muhammad
then why is it prospering every day.

You know that more than 50000 (yes fifty thousand) people accept Ahmadiyyat
every year and these figures are improving every day and soon these will
start mulitiplying, Insha-Allah. Doesn't it raise any serious questions
in the minds of sensible people that if Ahmadiyyat was the creation of
an imposter, why on earth is it getting all divine help!!!

Here is what Allah promissed to Hazrat Ahmad;
     "I WILL CAUSE THY MESSAGE TO REACH CORNERS OF EARTH"

Now is the time to ask some questions to ourselves.

I am sorry but I will not be pursuing debate of Khatam and I agree to
disagree with YOU.

Very best regrads,
Nasir Ahmed Noor
umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: billa-unwaan..........title-less
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:06:39 GMT
Reply-To: zafir@unssun.UUCP (Zia Zafir)
Organization: University of Nevada-Reno

In article <Apr.13.21.25.04.1992.22170@gandalf.rutgers.edu> amarmahb@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Amar Mahboob Ali) writes:
>
>	
>>	ADIL [....bool kay laab azad haiN tairay
>>		  bool zubaaN aab tak tairee hai.......] NAJAM
>
>
>Can you, or anyone else post the complete nazm. It would be nice to
>read it again after a looooong time.
>
>Amar Mahboob


Here it goes


			BOL  (By Faiz)

	Bol ke lab aazaad haiN teray
	bol zabaaN ab tak teri hai
	tera sutwaaN jism hai tera
	bol ke jaaN ab tak teri hai
	dekh ke aahan gar ki dukaaN maiN
	tund haiN sholay, surkh hai aahan
	khulnay lagay qufloN ke dahaanay
	phaila har ek zanjir ka daaman
	bol, yeh thoRa waqt bohat hai
	jism-o-zabaaN ki maut se pehlay
	bol, ke sach zinda hai ab tak
	bol, jo kuchh kahna hai kah lay


		TRANSLATION BY VICTOR KIERNAN

			SPEAK

	Speak, for your lips are free;
	Speak, your tongue is still yours,
	Your upright body is yours --
	Speak, your life is still yours.
	See how in the blacksmith's shop
	The flames are hot, the iron is red
	Mouths of locks have begun to open,
	Each chain's skirt has spread wide.
	Speak, this little time is plenty 
	Before the death of body and tongue:
	Speak, for truth is still alive --
	Speak, say whatever is to be said.

Zia Zafir
From: patel@sparky.drad.umn.edu (Maqbool Patel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: names for the new born
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:46:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Apr8.004634.20900
Organization: University of Minnesota, Radiology Dept.

Assalamualaikum!

We are expecting a baby pretty soon. We appreciate if you could
e-mail us some good names (for both boy and girl). If possible
please  provide us with the meaning of the names too.

Thanks a lot.
Tanvir patel

patel@sparky.drad.umn.edu
patel@hippy.drad.umn.edu
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 05:02:08 EDT
From: Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Burqa
Distribution: na

Salam Alaikum Khan Saheb :

           Guzray jidhar jidhar say woh ultey huwai naqab
           ek noor ki lakeer si kichti chali gaai

           Woh sar kholay hamari lash pai diwana war aaiye
           Isi ko mot kahtain hain to yarab bar bar aaiye

           Aain hain woh mazar pai ghonghat utar kai
           Mughsay naseeb aachain hain mere mazar kai