HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wc9586@writer.yorku.ca (Marc Bostecwyzc)
Subject: Ethics and Holodeck
Originator: wc9586@grant
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:36:08 GMT

From: wc9586@writer.yorku.ca (Marc Bostecwyzc)
Newsgroups: Rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: RE: Ethics and Holodeck
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Keywords: 


Hi all.

    I've been reading some of the posts on this topic, including the
original post by Marc Chabot, and I must say that I agree with the
point he was trying to make, or should I say made but was not fully
understood.  I think that there is something that is being missed
here.  Perhaps it was not made clear enough in the original post,
perhaps I just happen to have a different angle on the issue, I'm not
sure.  Anyway, my point, and I believe this is one of Mr. Chabot's
main points, is this:  There is quite a large difference between
having a fantasy in your head and having the opportunity to have it
"come true", for all intents and purposes, on the Holodeck.  

    Why I feel there is such a large difference is this:  A fantasy in
your head is just that: a *fantasy*.  One that you act out on the
Holodeck, however, is a more than just a fantasy.  Why?  Because you
are having sexual relations with another person without their consent.
Oh, sure it is just an "image", but this image has texture and density.
This is where the difference comes in.  You are not just looking at a
picture of someone (be it in your head or in a photograph) and
masturbating to it, you are actually performing the act of sexual
intercourse with what appears to you to be, in all ways, the person
whom the Holodeck is recreating.  Not only that, but you are seeing
them naked without their permission; probably down to the last
physical detail, as the "representation" could have been based on
the ship's medical records.  This is a little more serious than
"taking a picture of them on the street and masturbating to it later",
as one person argued.  If you were to obtain that sort of picture
today, you would have to get it from peeping in their window.
Something which is very much against the law.  So, without bringing
legality into the argument, I think that having sexual intercourse
with a Holodeck representation of another crewmember without their
knowledge or consent is unethical.

    So much for my two cents.
                             Regards.
                                      Mr. Dave

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are mine and mine alone, although
            they may be shared by others that I don't know about.
From: noel@umbc2.umbc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: A silly Top 10 List
Date: 11 JAN 93 08:23:53 EST
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore County
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc2.umbc.edu

	This is got to be a first, the first all DS9 (or DSN) post ever.  So
from the home office in Arbutus Maryland, we bring you:

TOP 10 REJECTED LINES FROM DEEP SPACE NINE

10.  Vulcan Captian:  "The Borg just destroyed the U.S.S. Galaxy"
     Cisco:  "Get outta here, thats an Embassador class"
     Vulcan: "Galaxy!"
     Cicso:  "Embassador!"
     *** BOOOM *****

9.  Jake Cisco:  "This sucks, all I have is a mat on the floor in bed"
    Cmdr Cisco:  "Its okay, I'll get you a bunk next week"
    Jake:  "Didn't this used to be a Cardassian brothel?"
    Cisco:  "Cisco to Enterprise, please beam down a bunk NOW!"

8.  Kira Nerys:  "I don't like the Federation being here "
    Cicso:  "I don't like being here"
    Kira:  "Then leave and tell the Federation to leave Bejor alone"
    Cisco:  "And give up that incredible office?  No way"

7.  Cisco:  "How are you adjusting Mr O'Brien?"
    O'Brien:  "I'm doing okay, Keiko is not pleased"
    Cisco:  "Oh?  how can you tell?"
    O'Brien:  "Hitting me over the head with a frying pan and calling me
              'idiot' is a pretty good indication."

6.  Kai Opaka:  "Your spirit is desolate Commander Cisco"
    Cisco:  "And you're fat, whats your point?" 

5.  Kira Nerys:  "Odo, are you okay?"
    Odo:  "No, it was horrible!"
    Kira:  "Did the cardassians capture you and torture you?"
    Odo:  "Worse, that Cadassian used me to hold his dirty socks and 
           underwear! "

4.  Cisco:  "So Dax, how do you like the new body?"
    Dax:  "Its great!  Do you know how hard it is to get laid when you are
           in the body of a 90-year-old man?"

3.  Julian Bashier:  "I'd love to work here, doing frontier medicine"
    Kira Nerys: "This 'frontier' is my home!"
    Julian:  "My apologies, can I make it up to you with a free physical?"
    (Kira flattens Julian and walks off)
    Julian:  "I think I'm in love"

2.  Kira Nerys:  "O'Brien, you've taken totally alien technology, used it
                  in ways nobody thought of, and managed to save the station
                  as well as all our lives, how do you do it?"
    O'Brien:  "I went to the Montgomery Scott Engineering College"

And the number one rejected line from Deep Space Nine

1.  Alien:  "What is this?"
    Cisco:  "If you keep saying that I am going to slap you silly!"
From: judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Mike Judson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Amy Fisher
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:46:21 GMT
Reply-To: judson@watserv.ucr.edu

Did anybody watch any of the Amy Fisher movies (sp)?  Has anyone seen the
real Joey Buttafuoco (sp)?  Did anybody notice that Colm Meany looks a
lot like Joey Buttafuco?


--
If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because 
maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you 
because, hey, free dummy.

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.misc:13606 rec.arts.startrek.current:23507
From: ez033589@shaggy.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Colm Meany Sightings
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:46:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <1993Jan11.154259.24142@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
>
>Funny how Colm Meany keeps showing up in command situations in
>whatever movies he appears in.  In DIE HARD II, he was the captain
>of the airliner that the bad guys caused to crash on the runway;
>in UNDER SIEGE (one heluva movie, by the way) he was the terrorists'
>second-in-command (and showed up more often than in the average 
>Star Trek TNG episode).  I kinda liked seeing him get blown away...

I dunno if it counts as a "command situation", but he was also the Irish
gangster Tom Cruise worked for in _Far And Away_.

Wasn't he the father in _The Commitments_, too?

JJ
-- 
JJ Glamma			   | "Red Alert. Shields up."
aka James William Patrick Bennetts |	-- Major Kira
jwbennetts@ucdavis.edu		   | "What Shields?"
MAYDAY! PLEASE SEND VEGEMITE!	   |	-- O'Brien, ST:DS9, Emissary
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (rabjab)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Speed of Spacecraft
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:37:30 GMT
Organization: ucsd
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu


>I noticed in DS9 that when Sisko and Dax were traveling through the
>wormhole Dax referred to the ship's velocity as "80 kph."  I also
>remember in a TNG episode that Riker referred to the speed of the
>Enterprise in the same manner.  Are they referring to kilometers per
>hour?  If so, that is awful slow for a spacecraft?  If not, what are
>they referring to?

They want to make the point that the wormhole collapses distance,
and traveling half-way across the galaxy at 80 kph is a result.

-rabjab

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: mwiz@cia.austin.ibm.com (Marc Wiz)
Subject: Just when you thought you had heard it all
Summary: joke
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:36:35 GMT
Organization: Do you really want to know?

The following was seen in the personals section of an Austin newspaper:

Jean-Luc seeks number one.  Caring, handsome, aware, 40ish captain with high
libido tired of running life's ship alone, hailing frequencies open.
Make it so!

All I can say is get a life. :-)

Marc Wiz
mwiz@austin.ibm.com
(512)823-9330
I speak only for myself.
Yes, that really is my last name.
From: pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: SNAFU in "Data's Day"
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 03:27:59 EST
Organization: Berry Communications

CXMP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CXMP000) writes:

> I just saw "Data's Day".  Data states that "today is the 1550th day
> since the enterprise was commissioned".  1550 days = 4.24 years.
> Unfortuately, the Enterprise was commisioned on stardate 41153.7 and
> the stardate for this episode is 44390.1 days.  3.24 years?  Hmm...
> interesting SNAFU.

According to the commissioning plaque on the Main Bridge, the Enterprise
was launched on 40759.5.  The plaque is reproduced on page 12 of the
ST:TNG Technical Manual.  Page 17 gives the commissioning date as 4
October 2363, for whatever that's worth.

-- 
Pat Berry - Cary, North Carolina, USA   |  "At least that's what *I* thought.
pat@berry.Cary.NC.US                    |  But I have a history of missing the
**** Happy user of OS/2 2.0 ****        |  point of stuff like this."
                                        |  -- Homer Simpson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Subject: Old Yellow Eyes Is Back
Reply-To: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Organization: CMP Publications, Inc.
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 23:59:37 GMT
Keywords: data brent spiner stargazer 

There was once a time when I thought that you hadn't lived through really 
wonderfully BAD music unless you were at the 1979 John-Williams-In-Space 
concert at Madison Square Garden, where William Shatner sat lazily upon a 
stool, a cigarette (joint?) dangling from his lips, reciting the words to "Rocket 
Man" during a laser light show.
    Okay, so I was wrong.
    TV Guide recently printed a letter and brief reply about a new album entitled 
"Old Yellow Eyes Is Back," by Brent Spiner And The Stargazers (Stewart, Frakes, 
Dorn & Burton). Unfortunately, they didn't mention the label it's on or where it's 
available.
    Hey, I GOTTA have it. A dear friend (who counts Shatner's "Lucy in The Sky 
With Diamonds" album as one of her odd-but-prized-anyway possessions) tried 
several music shops in the New York City/Long Island area, but alas, to no avail.
    Does anyone out there know where I can acquire this gem? Shops in the New 
York City/Long Island area, or perhaps by mail?
    Thanks in advance!

"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic 
memory circuit, using stone knives and bearskins." --Spock
                             Humble Typesetter
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: kamins@well.sf.ca.us (Scot Kamins)
Subject: Re: Ethics and Holodeck
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:54:07 GMT


Mr.  Chabot suggests that there is a paralell between using someone's
holodec'ed image (reproduction? simulacrum?) for some personal purpose (in
this case, sex) and using a sports star's image for commercial purposes. But
the paralell is a false one. Sports stars and other public figures demand
recompense for their images when the use is commercial; but I can cut out a
picture of my favorite sports personality from the newspaper, scan it into
my computer, and do whatever I want with it - so long as it's only me that's
using it - without havingto pay for it. That's legal because of the fair use
doctrine. What's the difference if what I have is a monitor or a holodec? If
I'm using it just for me, for non-commercial purposes, where's the
illegality?

Mr. Chabot also suggest that there's a question of "victimizing" the person
whose image is being used. I don't see the victimization - the person is
being harmed in no way, nor is s/he being detained, nor defamed.

As to the question of morality, that's better left for theologians,
religionists, and other murderers of freedom to decide.
From: tarun@psyclops.psyc.queensu.ca (Tarun Kripalani)
Subject: Re: Colm Meany Sightings
Organization: Dept. Of Psychology,  Queen's University,  Kingston
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:51:23 GMT

In article <C0q8ML.CBL@csn.org>, pmichals@teal.csn.org (Paul Michals) writes:
|> 00rdharringt@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Rob Harrington) writes:
|> : In article <1993Jan11.154259.24142@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
|> : > 
|> : > Funny how Colm Meany keeps showing up in command situations in
|> : > whatever movies he appears in.  In DIE HARD II, he was the captain
|> : > of the airliner that the bad guys caused to crash on the runway;
|> : > in UNDER SIEGE (one heluva movie, by the way) he was the terrorists'
|> : > second-in-command (and showed up more often than in the average 
|> : > Star Trek TNG episode).  I kinda liked seeing him get blown away...
|> : 
|> : He was the Ward Boss in "Far and Away"...
|> : 
|> : -- 
|> : /---------------------------------------v-------------------------------------\
|> : |  Rob Harrington                       |              Ball State University  |
|> : |  Department of History                |               Muncie, Indiana, USA  |
|> : |  Vax--00RDHARRINGT@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  |       Unix--herring@bsu-cs.bsu.edu  |
|> : >---------------------------------------^-------------------------------------<
|> : |                  Ball State University - University Democrats               |
|> : |                Not a spokesperson - REPEAT - Not a spokesperson             |
|> : \-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
|> 
|> He was also in the premier of the New CBS series 'Dr Quinn, M.D.'
|> 
|> paul m.
|> 

Check out the Commitments. He's there as the 'Elvis is a God' father.
-- 

Tarun Kripalani 
e-mail:   tarun@psyclops.psyc.queensu.ca

____________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: jwindley%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley)
Subject: Re: enterprise model colours
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:18:49 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: rec

"bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com> writes:
>
>Ya, many people have incorrectly told me duck egg blue, but duck egg
>blue is actually the colour AMT says the E-D DETAIL should be painted
>in, not the base.

Both shades of blue are putrid.  I painted my details "Duck Egg
Blue" like the directions suggested, and they looked pretty stupid.
Some sort of light gray (so that a metallic sheen can be applied with
dry brushin) would be a much better base color.  As near as I can
tell, the hull plates merely have a different reflectivity, not a
different color.  You could accomplish this by painting dullcoat
lacquer on selected patches -- maybe the ones AMT-ERTL says should be
this dorky shade of blue.

I'm not finished with my ENTERPRISE, but I'm going to brush the entire
surface with powdered graphite.  I've got good results doing this
before.

> GP> For the warp nacelles, use Testor's Auto paints: Flat Red and Flat
> GP> Blue. Paint the INSIDE of the clear plastic parts their appropriate
> GP> colors, and dry-brush the outside with gold.
>
>Are you sure FLAT red and FLAT blue?  I mean, at they ask for
>TRANSPARENT paints -- shouldn't gloss be the more adviseable scheme?

Not if you're painting the inside of the parts.  Gloss or flat, the
sheen comes from the outside surface of the transparent part, not
from the paint.  And you'll be conditioning the sheen on the outside
with dry brushing.  IMHO flat paints cover the surface better with
more uniform thickness.  Gloss colors tend to show brush strokes on
transparent parts.

>I bought a dullcoat and he said to spray it all over the model after to
>get rid of the plastic look.  I want your advise -- will this work?

It works insofar as the "dull" look is not the "plastic" look.
Personally, I don't think dullcoat looks a great deal like metal, but
it looks more like metal than does bare plastic.

 [...]
>the entire model with the glosscoat (after the detail is painted),
>apply the decals, and then put on another glosscoat (or dullcoat I
>suppose).  This way the decals are sandwhiched between the two coats and
>will not flake off after a few months.

Go very light on the final coat.  Thick coats of any kind of lacquer
will shrink and buckle the decals.  I've ruined many a decal this way.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Jay Windley  *  University of Utah  *  Salt Lake City
                    jwindley@asylum.cs.utah.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aa687@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith Ammann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: StarTrek: The *REAL* Portraits!
Date: 6 Jan 1993 02:28:51 GMT
Organization: Yeah, right.
Reply-To: aa687@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith Ammann)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, wolfram@rbhp67.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Wolfram Kresse) says:

>Hi, all StarTrek-Fans around the world!!!
>
>Here are the *REAL* StarTrek-Portraits:
>
>Jean Luc Picard   (:-)
>Geordi La Forge    I-)       (not my idea, but *great*)
>Comm. Data        [:-]
>Riker             :-{)}
>Worf              E:-(}
>Wesley             :)

We use:
Geordi LaForge     [#-)
Worf               {{:-{>





-- 
If you cannot gather where you wish, you cannot assert yourself.
If you cannot believe what you wish, you cannot be at peace with yourself.
If you cannot say what you wish, you cannot defend yourself.
SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO BE TRUE TO YOURSELF -- SUPPORT THE FIRST AMENDMENT!
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: That thing Odo does (DS9 Spoiler Alert!)
Date: 10 Jan 1993 01:26:21 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <C0Ktp1.Cxq@ns1.nodak.edu> fleckens@plains.NoDak.edu (Clint Fleckenstein) writes:
>As our little group watched Deep Space Nine last week, we pondered
>the fact that Odo changed his shape into the bag in which the 
>Cardassians put their winnings, in order to sneak aboard their 
>warship.

>Changing shape is fine.   But changing mass?  Surely them darn
>Cardassians would have known something was up if the bag weighed
>as much as Odo does.  Is this a continuity flaw?  We arrived at
...

Umm... how do you know (or how does anybody know, since they didn't
mention it on the show) how much Odo weighs? He could weigh only a
couple of kilos, and we'd never know :-)

Maybe Odo wasn't actually the bag. Maybe, as Quark or someone else
loaded the money into the bag, Odo changed shape to *look* like the
bag and Quark actually handed Odo to the Cardassians, sans money. Did
you see the size of the coinage they were using? Looked pretty heavy
to me.

-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#     "I am Elfy of Atlantis." "I am Jo-Jo of Munchkinland."           #
#     "We are Elfy and Jo-Jo!"                                         #
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: tarun@psyclops.psyc.queensu.ca (Tarun Kripalani)
Subject: Info needed on STTNG models
Organization: Dept. Of Psychology,  Queen's University,  Kingston
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:47:00 GMT

How many different types of ships, stations etc
are available as models from STTNG? I have only
encountered the Enterprise 1701-D and the 
Klingon Battle Cruiser.


-- 

Tarun Kripalani 
e-mail:   tarun@psyclops.psyc.queensu.ca

____________________________________________________________________________
From: aa687@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith Ammann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: I ask again ... (Klingon language mailing list)
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:32:22 GMT
Reply-To: aa687@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Keith Ammann)
Organization: :noitazinagrO
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know at what address I can subscribe to the Klingon
language mailing list?  I only know the name of the list is
tlhIngan-Hol; I don't know the site.  And please post the info
publicly, because I don't like getting mail from people saying,
"Ooh!  Ooh!  When you find out, tell me too!"  Thank you.






-- 
If you cannot gather where you wish, you cannot assert yourself.
If you cannot believe what you wish, you cannot be at peace with yourself.
If you cannot say what you wish, you cannot defend yourself.
SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO BE TRUE TO YOURSELF -- SUPPORT THE FIRST AMENDMENT!
From: bobd@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com (Bob D'Amore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Info needed on STTNG models
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:35:39 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer - Oceanport NJ

In article <C0G46C.JHK@knot.ccs.queensu.ca=> tarun@psyclops.psyc.queensu.ca (Tarun Kripalani) writes:
=>How many different types of ships, stations etc
=>are available as models from STTNG? I have only
=>encountered the Enterprise 1701-D and the 
=>Klingon Battle Cruiser.
=>----
=>Tarun Kripalani 
=>e-mail:   tarun@psyclops.psyc.queensu.ca
=>____________________________________________________________________________

I am not sure of how many are available for TNG, but I thought I would
pass along a bit of info on a model already available for Deep Space 9.

_PREVIEWS_, a consumer magazine for comic/game/trading card collectors
and dealers (Jan. '93, Vol III No.1), spotlights in their "Licensing" 
section on page 164 the DEEP SPACE NINE RUNABOUT from ERTL.  The text is
as follows:
	"Travel to Deep Space Nine -- a Federation outpost on the fringes 
	of the "final frontier"-- via this expertly crafted plastic model
	depicting a futuristic shuttle craft from Paramount's forthcoming
	follow-up to _Start_Trek:__The_Next_Generation_.  Ships unassembled
	and unpainted in an illustrated collectors box. (8741D0)....$16.66"

It looks real good in the picture.  I am not into collecting myself, but
my friend and co-worker is a comic book collector and dealer.  Each month
this 'zine previews publications, videos and all sorts of other stuff, due
for release within a month or two of that issue.  It's worth finding this
and checking it out if you are into Star Trek, or any other kind of
collecting.  -- BobD
-- 

US MAIL: Bob D'Amore                            Concurrent Computer Corp.
FAX: 908-870-5952   2 Crescent Pl.  Oceanport NJ 07757   Ph: 908-870-4654 
UUCP:     princeton!ocpt!catfish!bobd    or    bobd@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Guinan and Picard
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 19:39:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.181357.7692@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9040513@henson.cc.wwu.edu  
(Andrea Aldridge) writes:
> In article <106512@bu.edu> cmackin@bu.edu (Carl Mackin) writes:
> >Does anyone, know if they will ever develop the story of
> >the relationship that Picard and Guinan share?
> 
> They did, in the two-parter (I forget the title) that had the crew going
> back to Mark Twain's time to find out what happened to Data's head in 
> San Francisco.  That was the sum of the relationship - that Picard met
> and saved Guinan at that time.

I suspect it's a lot more than that.  WHat about the second time they met --  
first time for Picard?  I think it was before Guinan and Picard ended up on the  
Enterprise.

In an interview in Cinefantastique about a year ago, Goldberg mentioned that a  
lot of Guinan's backstory hasn't appeared in the series yet.  Even the  
adventure in San Francisco, I suspect, is only the tip of the iceberg.

--
Frank Mitchell,	Business Systems Analyst, First National Bank of Chicago
email:frank@fnbc.com (NeXTmail)

"'I am that merry wanderer of the night'?  I am that giggling, dangerous,  
totally bloody psychotic menace to life and limb, more like it."
-- Peaseblossom, _Sandman_ #19