HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: Point to Jesse
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:53:23 GMT

In article <1eca5tINNibl@manuel.anu.edu.au> Lubosh <Lubosh.Hanuska@anu.edu.au> writes:
>In article <BxM001.B20@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Steve Creps,
>creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>>>Well, if God is not in control ... WHO or WHAT IS????

   Actually, although it's being attributed to me, I didn't write
that.  That was either Tom or Jesse.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:35:37 CDT
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      leadership ! yahoo!

Hi All..
I found out great nes on the weekend, I have been selected to join the
deaconate of our local church, which is our church structure is the fist
stage of leadership responsibility.

The deaconate and the eldership are the levels of leadership, with the
'Pastor' being the 'Lead Elder'..

As a Deacon, I hold a home cell meeting each week with up to 10 - 20 people
to provide the 'personal' contact that a church of our size cannot
possibly give people on a Sunday. We carry the authority of a leader, under
the guidance of an elder to be responsible for counselling, discipline,
advice etc.


This is a very very important time for me, I have responsibility. I know
from the scripture that the Lord makes us accountable for those he
makes us responsible for!
This is also the first step to being released as a leader of a church
that our church may plant!

Please pray for wisdom and guidance !

Thanks!


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |      Phone   : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:50:01 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Hilda of Whitby

     HILDA OF WHITBY (17 NOV 680)

     Hilda was the grandniece of King Edwin of Northumbria, a
kingdom of the Angles. She was born in 614 and baptized in 627 when
the king and his household became Christians. In 647 she decided to
become a nun, and under the direction of Aidan she established
several monasteries.  Her last foundation was at Whitby. It was a
double house: a community of men and another of women, with the
chapel in between, and Hilda as the governor of both; and it was a
great center of English learning, one which produced five bishops
(during Hilda's lifetime??). Here a stable-boy, Caedmon, was moved
to compose religious poems in the Anglo-Saxon tongue, most of them
metrical paraphrases of narratives from Genesis and the Gospels.

The Celtic peoples of Britain had heard the Gospel well before 300
AD, but in the 400's and 500's a massive invasion of Germanic
peoples (Angles, Jutes, and Saxons) forced the native Celts out of
what is now England and into Wales, Ireland, and Scotland. The
invaders were pagans, and missionaries were sent to them in the
north and west by the Celts, and in the south and east by Rome and
other churches on the continent of Europe.

Roman and Celtic traditions differed, not in doctrine, but on such
questions as the proper way of calculating the date of Easter, and
the proper style of haircut and dress for a monk. It was, in
particular, highly desirable that Christians, at least in the same
area, should celebrate Easter at the same time; and it became clear
that the English Church would have to choose between the old Celtic
customs which it had inherited from before 300, and the customs of
continental Europe and in particular of Rome that missionaries from
there had brought with them. In 664 the Synod of Whitby met at that
monastery to consider the matter, and it was decided to follow Roman
usage.

Hilda herself greatly preferred the Celtic customs in which she had
been reared, but once the decision had been made she used her
moderating influence in favor of its peaceful acceptance.  Her
influence was considerable; kings and commoners alike came to her
for advice. She was urgent in promoting the study of the Scriptures
and the thorough education of the clergy. She died 17 November 680.

   O God, whose blessed Son became poor that we through his
   poverty might be rich: deliver us from an inordinate love of
   this world, that, following the example of thy servant Hilda,
   we may serve thee with singleness of heart, and attain to the
   riches of the world to come; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who
   liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
   one God, now and for ever.
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:35:40 CST
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From:         Yvonne <YMIXON@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Gays in the military

Mr. Freeman, I would be interested in knowing scholars teaching on the reason f
or the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. In my readings and studying of the sc
riptures, these passages definitely let us know God's view on this subject.  Th
at particular sin may not have been the only one, but certainly the MAJOR one.
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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:23:58 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: CHRISTIAN ARTISTS-GLENN

Dear Glenn or anyone else,

My family  and I  love Carman's music.  There was one  song where  he was
apparently killed  in an  automobile accident and  died in  the emergency
room.  He then  saw heaven  and  Jesus. My  question is  did Carman  make
this  into a  video, and  if so,  which one?  I also  would like  to know
the title of the  song. Thank you all. Take your time  in your answer be-
cause  I'm  leaving work  now.  Have  a  good evening  everyone  (Smile).

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:02:48 -0700
From:         "Glenn Radinsky S05152@doc.flc.colorado.edu"
              <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      More Christian artists

Dear All:

     Some more Christian Rock bands that I find really good
to listen to are:

Carman, 4 Him, Jacob's Trouble, The Stand, Hoi Palloi, and
the Colours of Praise (Instrumental).

Hope this helps...

                            Glenn
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 09:35:10 CST
From: <U59919@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Ozzy Osbourne

In article <CHRISTIA%92111716484506@ASUACAD.BITNET>, "Love does not subtract, it
multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET> says:
>
><This isn't meant as a flame, but if the inference is that Ozzy is
><"religious" or a Christian...I don't think so.
>
>Ozzy has been Christian his entire life, and has never claimed otherwise.
>
>Dan

There is a difference between religeous christians and true Christians.
Ever hear of Ivan the terrible?
He tortured his own people.  He reasoned that if god let him experience
pleasure because he tortured others, god must want him to torture them.
He knew the scriptures, and what they ment.  A very devout man.
Christianity is not something you can inherit from your parents.
Religeon is.
Ozzy may call himself a christian, but with what I have seen of him, he's
a religeous one.
I can just guess how much more the world would think of us if they knew he
claimed to be a christian.
Someone mentioned something about needing to have the Spirit to be a true
Christian; I agree.

Before you get on my case about capitalization of Christian/christain and god
in the above message, I did all those on purpose.

Theodore Penn
u59919@uicvm.cc.uic.edu     Internet
u59919@uicvm                Bitnet
1 Cor. 14:3
Rom. 9:1
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:50:41 CST
From:         Jesse Irwin Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Application of Jesse's reference list

Dear All on Christia ;

One thing that I failed to do was to show the practical application of such
a reference list with annotations in quotes.
The application is simply this :


Because of the inherently sinful state of all of mankind, due to Adam's one
transgression, we who are yet Christians have NO POWER to willingly turn to
God in faith in Christ, with true repentance towards our sins.
We CANNOT put ourselves into any state, whereby we can receive the Grace of
God unto Salvation.  Without Divine intervention of the scope of the Spirit
coming to us and first Regenerating us --making us spiritually alive-- we can
not even perceive nor receive the things of God.
In essence, we have no inherent willingness to come to God -- to turn from our
selfish bent toward sin -- nor to receive Spiritual things unless first the
Spirit of God "births us" into the Kingdom by His supernatural work of
Regeneration.  This, Jesus alluded to in John 3 when speaking to Nicodaemus.

God is not some sort of "Cosmic Coke machine" where we can enter our Spiritual
coinage and thereby receive true "refreshment" unto Salvation.  God is NOT
obligated to give us anything BUT Justice -- and that would be disasterous for
sure.


These doctrines show that we cannot contribute anything to God, in order to get
Him to Save us.
So, application-wise, we NEED to call out to God who is Sovereign, who is
obligated to none, but who Graciously gives Saving Grace to all who ask for
Divine Mercy ... who ask Him on HIS terms to clothe them with a Righteousness
that they cannot contribute to one little bit.  We have to ask for total
charity.  We have to ask Him for Mercy, who really should give us nothing but
JUSTICE.  Truth is, when anyone comes to God on His terms and honestly asks
Him to give them -- to impute -- a righteousness to them that they cannot earn,
nor do they DESERVE, He will graciously do so.
And strangely enough, if a person will humble themselves and come to God on
His terms, asking Him for TOTAL charity and Divine Mercy, what is evident is
that God has ALREADY done that miraculous work of Regeneration within their
"inner man."

Such is the God we have to deal with and Glorious he is and Sovereign He
Reigns.  He is gracious to all who come to Him as beggers, asking for pure
charity and a Righteousness NOT their own, but credited to their account --
unto all who will so come to Him.


Jesse Irwin Carnes
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 09:50:59 CST
From: <U59919@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Subjects discussed here

It has been stated by some that digression (or something similar) is happening
on Christia.
Lets drop some of these subjects, really.
predestination -- God knew people would be arguing about this before he made
                  everything.
The Gospel -- What in the world was this thing when it started out anyway?

Ozzy Osbourne -- If he says he's christian, it's on his head.  Lets drop it off

                 of ours.

Gays in the military -- 1 tim.8-11, 1 cor. 6:9, They aren't suuposed to be
                        anywhere.

Roman Catholic Bashing -- Someone already stated something about not having
                          strife between believers.  Still, the RCC needs
                          a serious visitation.
                          (note: I am not nor have I ever been any form of
                           Catholic)

"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about
 the law; for they are unprofitable and useless"
                                           Titus 3:9

I do not mean to judge any of the people here, but This place IS getting
redundant and boring.
Read Philippians 1:9-11

Theodore Penn
u59919@uicvm.cc.uic.edu      Internet
u59919@uicvm                 Bitnet
1 Cor. 14:3
Rom. 9:1
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: The True Word of Allah
Date: 21 Nov 92 14:41:31 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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May the Peace of God be with you Fayaz!

I am glad you are going to take the time to let us know more about the Koran
and Islam....  I hope you have taken the time where you are at now to learn a
little about Christianity, and more importantly Lord Jesus the Messiah (P.B.W.
H.).  Obviously, since you are on this list, you are interested in talking
with those who like you fear God.  I am looking forward to talking more with
you.  And now that you are in the U.S., you can freely read the Injil which
your prophet (may God bring him salvation) spoke so highly of.  I think this
will help you greatly in your desire for greater enlightenment.  It will help
you communicate your ideas with us better too.

                                                   Peace, zane.
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From: billc@housing.msstate.edu (Bill Chapman)
Subject: Re: "Doctrine of Total Depravity" : Carnes' list
Organization: Housing Department, Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:59:05 GMT

In article <CHRISTIA%92111910191244@ASUACAD.BITNET> Jesse Irwin Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET> writes:
>Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:14:05 CST
>From:         Jesse Irwin Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
>Subject:      Re: "Doctrine of Total Depravity" : Carnes' list
>Dear Bill Chapman ;
>
>Sometimes I put my own material into quotes, but that is just a habit.
>The actual source quotations are the little sections, like "A", "B", "C"
>and so forth.
>The one source I used was from the work, "The Five Points of Calvinism" by
>David Steele and Curtis Thomas (Presbyterian & Reformed : c1963, 1984 print.).

Thanks.  Some of us in the academic world are overly sensitive about giving 
credit where it is due, especially when plagerism is so subtle.  Even when
not intended, using others' intellectual property without citation is still
a serious omission.

You may be surprised to learn that some of your readers will give your 
arguments more credit if they find that this is not something you dreamed
up, yourself.

--
Bill Chapman, Box 1262, Mississippi State, MS  39762
<BillC@Housing.MSState.edu>           (601) 325-2042
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Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:38:53 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: On Reading Minds
              17 Nov 1992 15:42:04 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

Yo Darren (Kansas) Provine:


> My disagreement with predestinarians has nothing to do with supposed `hatred'
> of God's sovereignty or with pride about wanting to fix my own salvation. The
> reason I disagree with predestinarians is because I have not seen sufficient
> evidence to support their claims, and because they I have not seen adequate
> replies to objections made by others.

How do you define "sufficient evidence"? What is more authoritative than God's
Word? My Christian presupposition is that the Bible is God's Word, and nothing
is more authoritative. You wish to make faith in "evidence" outside the Bible
more authoritative than faith in God's Word. If God's predestination meets
with your approval and you judge it to be evidentially sound, then you will
decide to bow to it and believe it. ...NOT!...

> Posting articles which claim that those who disagree with you are encumbered
> by some character defect is both a waste of time and rather idiotic.

I guess "idiotic" is not considered a character defect.

Tom
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:37:14 CST
From:         Lonnie Schubert <S096556@UMRVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Are Christians still sinners?

My intent here is not to lend support to Dan H. nor Oz O. either.

I am only commenting on an assertion by Tom that I perceive to be
errant.  Namely, "No one has ever been Christian his entire life.  Christ
came to save sinners, not Christians."

First, I assert that Christians are sinners saved by Grace.  I do not
see that it follows that there must be some point in time in a sinner's
life when he necessarily was not saved.  (At least not from this one
assertion alone.)

I offer my self as an example (and for ridicule).  I was raised in
a loving, Christian home and overall environment.  I was raised in
church.  I was taught the scriptures from before I can recall.  From
earliest cognition, I acknowledged God and Christ's Lordship over my
life to the extent of my understanding -- exceedingly limited though
it surely was.  I was baptised at approximately 8 or 9 at my own request.
(I'm sure my grandmother has the date written down somewhere, if you care
to know; feel free to look her up and ask. :-)  I remember it, and I
understood what I was doing and what it meant (and still do).

There is no point in my life that I can look back upon and state, "I was
in rebellion against God in my life.  I saw my wickedness, repented,
and asked Jesus to save me."  It did not happen.  I can only recall
always knowing that Jesus is God, Lord of my life, and that I am and
always will be ultimately responsible to HIM.

I can state honestly that I have always been a sinner, that I have
regularly had to repent, and that I have always felt indebted to Christ
for His saving Grace, but I still must acknowlegdge this fact.

So, I assert that I have been a Christian my entire life, and by the
Grace by which I stand, I shall stand, and I shall be a Christian my
entire life.  I do not see how this assertion is varient from scripture.

I acknowledge my inate sinfulness, but I do not see how that automatically
makes me "not a Christian".  Paul was a Christian and claimed to be
a good example of one, yet he always acknowledged his inate sinfulness.
"For I see in me two forces at war within ..."

I am open to any and all comments, public or private.

Still, it does not follow from the fact that Christ came to save
sinners, that no one has ever been a Christian his entire life.

Lonnie Schubert
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:52:53 EST
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From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      gay discussion

Center for Urban and Economic Research
Phone: 502-588-6626

Carol Long asks, "Did Benda [that's Brenda] really mean that this is what is
being discussed ?  I must have missed something."  I had originally said
(sarcastically) that we "discuss such vital issues as whether homosexuals
should be allowed to kill people beside the rest of us,..."  It loses something
in the quotation and in the explanation.  First of all, unless I have really
missed the point of a lot of posts, the debate is about whether gays can
serve in the military with heterosexuals.  People in the military are often
called upon to kill other people (we don't like to think of it that way, but
that's what a military is for).  So yes, the debate is about whether gays can
serve in this same capacity with heterosexuals.  The sarcasm was intended
to point out that I do not personally deem this to be such a vital topic
when you compare it to real suffering that is going on in our world today.
Sorry if I was vague.  I didn't mean that we shouldn't discuss homosexuality
(although my personal preference is to delete the posts), or that no one
should join the military, etc. etc.  I only meant that for me, personally,
there are more important things to worry about.

Brenda
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:13:16 EST
From:         Fayaz Qureshi <fqureshi@VTSSI.VT.EDU>
Subject:      The True Word of Allah

              ___   | |       |  ___   | |  /|  |  | |              |
             |  |  _| |         |  |  _| | /_|  |  | |    |  |  |   |
      o_|__|____| |   | | o |_o____| |   |   |__|__| |  o_|__|__|___|
  ___/   oo    ___|     |___|     ___|              ___/          o

  In   the   name  of   ALLAH,   the    Beneficent,   the    Merciful

                    A L - Q U R A N : Translations
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
1(                                  AL-QURAN

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


          I seek Allah's Protection from Satan the Rejected One
         In the name of Allah the Most Benificient, Most Merciful


O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and
protectors; They are but friends and protectors to each other.  And he
amongst you that turns to them (for Friendship) is of them.  Verily Allah
guideth not a people unjust.
Those in whose hearts is a disease -- thou seest how eagerly they run about
amongst them, saying:  "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us
disaster."  Ah!  perhaps Allah will give (Thee) victory, or a decision
according to His Will.
Then will they repent of the thoughts they secretly harboured in their
hearts.  And those who believe will say:  "Are these the men who swore their
strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?"  All they do will be in
vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.



                                                         (51-53) Al-Maidah.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: YMIXON@UA1VM.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Gays in the military
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:53:25 GMT
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I disagree.  I know that all gay people donot lust after straight people,
 but just tell me, how do they know who is straight or gay from outer appearanc
e.  Straights can obviously tell the difference.  Therefore gays can most defin
itely be attracted to the same sex just through visuals.
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:48:23 CST
From:         Lonnie Schubert <S096556@UMRVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

Well, I'm still praising God for my new baby.
However, Mary got up to go to the bathroom and discovered
that she was bleeding.  The placenta is low in the uterous,
sufficient to cause minor spotting for a few weeks, which she
has been experiencing.  This instance was somewhat worse.  I don't think
there is cause for alarm, but it is enough more to cause me to
want to call for extra help from our God.

Please pray that the pregnancy continue properly as it has thus
far and that the good prognosous (sp?) of the doctors turn out
to be accurate.

Thank you,
Lonnie
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