HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.2 (R4b).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:59:47 EDT
Reply-To:     ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu
From:         Dennis Davidson <DDAVIDSON@CBACC.CBA.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      healing
X-To:         christia%asuacad@uga.cc.uga.edu

 Dear Bernice,
         Thank you for including in your answer the possibility that God
 will not do what we ask, even when we pray real hard. You said:
         "When my brother-in-law died, it was not because we
         did not pray enough or because we did not do what God
         wanted us to do, it was because God chose not to heal
         him."
 That was a big lesson I had to learn this summer, when my uncle died. I, too
 tended to believe that if only I had faith and prayed "hard enough", things
 would go as I wanted them to. But a "big brother" in Christ lovingly showed
 me that a test of my faith in God really came when even if He chose not
 to heal my uncle, I still trusted the Lord, and believed that He was still
 Healer. In other words, even if He does not heal your loved one, you must
 still believe that He is *ABLE* to heal. That didn't sink in until this
 semester, and I had to repent for hardening my heart against God and resenting
 Him for "taking" my uncle. It's cathartic to see that others grapple with this
 also.
         Nicole
Bernice and Nicole,

 God did heal them because when he took them home they are no longer sick but
 rejoicing around the throne of God.
 Your servant in Christ,



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dennis Davidson, Operational Support    |                               |
| Terry College of Business Computer Ctr. |  ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu  |
| University of Georgia, ph.(404)542-3821 |                               |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________________________________
| Jesus said 'You know you are one of my disciples if you have love one  |
| for another'                                                           |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:43:49 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Jesus Christ Superstar

We just finished watching Jesus Christ Superstar.  It ends on
Good Friday, the actors get on a bus and the sun is shining behind
a silouette of the cross.

Judas felt used.  I felt Mary Magdalene was a little too much, but
she finally realized that he wasn't just a man.  Before, she
probably knew only one way to react to men.  It did not follow the
Biblical account exactly.  Jesus was too human, maybe.  He was
overwhelmed by curing people, and stressed out over everyone
asking so much of him.

I did not care for the movie, I did not feel any 'great inspiration'.
And I cry very easily, especially when I realize what my Lord has
done for me.  No tears, here, even when he was flogged, but that
was not shown as extreme as what actually occured.

Now I have to think of it as resource mobilization...a social movement
of the poor.  Interesting concept.

In Christ,
Carol
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:14:44 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Covering the head

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

I just thought I'd add one more thing.  My grandmother was just about
the strongest Christian lady I have ever met.  She grew up in extreme
poverty, endured a life with an alcoholic husband who occasionally left
her alone with four small children and once raped her in front of my
mother, the youngest.  She once made a home out of a chicken coop.  But
through it all, she always made sure her children attended church.  And
at the same time, she never went.  Why?  Because she could not afford
a hat or a nice dress.  It was during the 30s, when American culture
dictated that in most churches, appropriate attire was a Sunday dress
and a nice hat.  Since she had neither, she refused to go, despite her
love and devotion to God.  I often wonder how much happier she could
have been, given the state of her physical existence, if she could have
afforded the one small pleasure of being able to attend Sunday service
and praise and worship the Lord she loved with all her heart.  I wonder
if when we place so much emphasis on literal interpretations of some
of Paul's statements such as the one about covering the head, that we
aren't missing the point and maybe even discouraging some from attending
at all.  How much more they miss by not being there.  And for what?  A hat?
It doesn't seem worth it to me.

I can see my granny in heaven now.  She stands there in a pew in God's
great sanctuary, dressed in her perfect dress with her perfect hat.

Brenda
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 12:46:20 EST
From:         John Ross <ROSSJB@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Abortion / Two different questions ...

Andrew Brennan writes:
>     On that question of legality/morality of abortion ...
>
>     Isn't this a reverse of the separation of church and state?

Frankly, no.  Find me that phrase in the constitution, please.
Let's not fall for trite phrases used to describe imaginary concepts.

>     The state is not to put limits, etc. on the church - isn't
>  the reverse (obverse?) true?

No, the reverse is not.  The constitution *DOES* say that congress
shall make no law respecting the establishement of religion OR
PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.

The church is made up of the people.  Are you saying the people
(echoes of "We the people" float by the keyboard) have no right to
lobby congress?  Please explain.

>  Thus, the moral question is not
>  necessarily the legal question?

No man (or woman, jeeez!) can serve two masters.  As a Christian posting
a message on PRACTICAL CHRISTIAN LIVING, I choose to serve Christ first,
and as a guest in the United States, the president and all his goofy laws
second.
Good.

John Ross (Too darn many Johns on this server....)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University at Buffalo
X-Envelope-to: christia@asuacad.bitnet
X-VMS-To: BSTUDY, IN%"christia@asuacad.bitnet", IN%"ivcf-l@ubvm.bitnet"
X-VMS-Cc: V063KC44
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:13:00 EST
From:         V063KC44@UBVMS.BITNET
Subject:      please pray for these two important requests
X-To:         bstudy-l@utarlvm1.BITNET, christia@asuacad.BITNET,
              ivcf-l@ubvm.BITNET

Please pray for Peter, for wisdom and guidance. He has a very
difficult decision to make in regards to which way he should move.

Please pray for the Spring of Life in Buffalo.



Thank you.

en agape,
bob
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:42:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Pro Choice Rally in DC.

<to us as Christians either way.  God is not a democrat, and 500 billion
<people could not make a wrong right.  I mean this for both sides.  Also,
<because we are Christians, I think we should ask God to show us His will
<on this issue.  We should pray both that those we oppose would be led to
<see the truth AND that if we are wrong God will gently guide us back to
<where we belong.

Oh, yes, you're new on the list, and I haven't mentioned it lately.  (I haven't
been terribly active lately in the first place.)  I am not a Christian, I am a
Wiccan, aka a Witch.  Thus, appeals to what the Christian Diety states is right
does not sway me.

In anticipation of the next qustion, I (a Witch) am on CHRISTIA because all
religion is of interest to me, even ones I am not a member of or agree with on
most things.  By reading the list, I can improve my understanding of
Christianity.  I am also able to clear up misconceptions concerning Wicca on
the rare occasions that they come up.

Dan
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:54:00 EST
From:         "Jeff Sinatra" <BSC92SPA18@RCNVMS.RCN.MASS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Poverty
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Kerry,
Are you honestly arguing in favor of the idea that God created evil?  That God
is the creator of all the destruction, suffering, and hate that is so prevalent
today?  How could a God, who is Love, be so hateful and destructive?  In Isaiah
45:5 we read, "I am the lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside
me..."  John tells us quite specifically that God is Love.  Now, to argue in
favor of the idea that evil and hate are real and God-created, is to claim that
there is another God in addition to Love--namely, hate.  If the Scripture is
correct in stating that there is no other God beside Love, what is hate and
evil?--nothing!  More importantly, this fact can, and is, being demonstrated
by Christians throughout the world every day when they overcome hate with the
power of love.  This same Principle can also be applied to disease, as well as
sin.  Knowing that there is no other God beside Love, and that there is nothing
in Love that is diseased and sinful, we begin to understand that sickness and
sin is not part of God's creation, and the healing of sin and disease is a
natural result of this knowledge, or faith.  If one was to take out of context
the statement "create darkness" or "create evil" then one could honestly ask,
"If God created evil then how can it be unreal?"  However, by putting these
statements back into context, and attempting to understand what they mean, this
question is invalid.  Before both of these statements we read something about
the nature of God--"I form the light..." and "I make peace..."  The result of
this divine presences brings a tremendous stir, as I am sure many people on
this list have experienced when bringing christian morals into an immoral
situation.  In addition, four passages before the one you quoted we read, "I
will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight:..."  Now, if God
created darkness or evil as you suggest, why would he want to do this?  Did God
make a mistake that he needed to correct?

PS. The Bible also tell us that God is Spirit.  So, if God is Spirit, doesn't
the text actually read "I am Spirit, and there is none else."  Is it not clear
that matter is an illusion according to Scripture?

				love,
				  Jeff Sinatra
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 11:00:28 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      chuckle

I thought all you computer people would enjoy this:

           BUGS
         ========

I think that I shall never see
A subroutine that works for me,
A macro or a zero test
That isn't just a rodent's nest,
A string that doesn't always stray
And mix up bits in wild array,
A process with re-entrant flair
That isn't just a looping snare,
Routines whose timings are not slain
When interrupts begin to rain.,
Maybe God can make a tree,
But bugs are made by people like me!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:50:10 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      the Atonement in the Narnia Chronicles

Kim writes:

 >    Maybe this is really off, but I was influenced by C.S.
 > Lewis' version of the crucifixion in the Chronicles of Narnia
 > series.  According to this story, Satan wanted to kill jesus,
 > and didnt know that he was playing into God's hands. Lewis
 > talks of a "deeper magic" that the witch (Satan) did not know
 > of.  So perhaps the Pharisees did not have an exact reason but
 > were pawns in Satan's plan.

This interpretation of the Crucifixion has been offered by many
Christian writers. For a discussion, see my Genesis Essays in the
Library.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 09:47:22 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Good Friday

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

>Yes, Easter is terrific, but let's not forget Good Friday.

And today is Maundy Thursday.  Can anyone give the history of Maundy
Thursday?  Sometimes I am frustrated by my own denomination because we
tend to throw out anything remotely Catholic, and often that means we
throw out the baby with the bath water.

Brenda
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:08:00 EDT
From:         Jeff Shirton <SHIRTON@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Should women cover their heads?

Earlier I wrote:

> away from God, instead of towards God.  For instance, the glory of a woman
> is her long hair (11:15), (or beauty).  The glory of a man is the woman on
> her arm.

Upon re-reading this, it appears offensive, even to me.  Please be assured
that I am not stating, or even implying, that women are "objects".  I assert
that they are individuals.

I was only commenting on the attitudes that _are_ prevalent in our society,
even if we don't ourselves hold them and even when we are offended on them.
Indeed, I believe that this was part of Paul's message, to _not_ be focussed
on objects (hair or beauty for women, women-as-objects for men), but rather,
to focus ahead on Christ.

Please forgive me for not expressing myself better earlier.

In Christ,

Jeff Shirton          (Jesus is Messiah's "Handel")
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"christia%asuacad.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:56:59 -0500
From:         F_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU
Subject:      media bias & sources of information
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu

  There has been some discussion on the list of media bias in reporting
the abortion issue.  In my view, the problem is much broader than that.
The news we get from the major media on most any topic is filtered through
a liberal, secular humanist bias, not only in the reporting, but in the
choice of topics to report.

  I have an ongoing project of searching for news sources free of such
bias.  If anyone has any suggestions, I will appreciate hearring of
them (with description & address please).  Please send direct to me:
F_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU.

               Thanks
                         Reynolds
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Mailer: QuickMail/SMTP interface.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:33:03 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 4/8
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also
aboundeth by Christ.  And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation
and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which
we also suffer; or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and
salvation.  And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers
of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation" (2 Corinthians
1:5-7).

"But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that when
His glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (1 Peter
4:13).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 10:18:14 EST
From:         John Ross <ROSSJB@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Aids and the rain

Allen:
>  I heard from the news that a famous tennis player declaimed himself
>afflicted with the AIDS.  Unlike magic Johnson who got it because of his
>sexial relationship with a lot of girls,  he sounds far more innoccent
>in that it is due to an accident.   I felt sorry for him and also for
>the other innocents world around.  About five years ago, I heard from a
>minister in the bible study that AIDS is a punishment from God.
>Earlier Vicky posted a mail that sickenss is a result of sin either from
>the fall of ADAM and EVEN or from our disobedience in God's commandment.
>But should these innocents, some of whom are very good Christians,
>deserves those pains and the lost of the right living in this beautiful
>world because others sin?

1)  Have you ever heard the phrase "the rain falls on the just and the
    unjust"?

2)  Would someone be so kind to find the account during which Jesus
    talked about some folks that got clobbered during a tower incident
    or an earthquake?  The general gyst of what He said was something to the
    effect of "They haven't sinned any more, but they got clobbered."

>But should these innocents, some of whom are very good Christians,
>deserves those pains and the lost of the right living in this beautiful
>world because others sin?

Who is innocent?  Who is righteous.  There are none.  We're all
sinners, blah, blah, blah.  We are all affected by sin as well.

Should Christ have been crucified to pay for _our_ sins?  He was the
only Innocent.

John
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Organization: University at Buffalo
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: V063KC44
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 09:52:00 EST
From:         The Nuzz <V063KC44@UBVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Catholics and Protestants

Reynolds writes...

rg>  It has long been my observation, confirmed by the discussions on the
rg> list, that Protestants tend to be overly concerned about Catholic beliefs
rg> that are peripheral (e.g. relating to the Virgin Mary) rather than the
rg> things that are real problems.

        But then, some of the real problems have been discussed here.
        That one is not saved through faith, that one cannot know that
        one is saved, that one who has never made a decision for
        Christ will just spend some time in a mythical place called
        purgatory, that one becomes a Christian because someone
        sprinkled water on them before they could even crawl.

        Those are some of the real problems. The influence
        of modernism and new-age spiritual practices are not
        an alien infection; rather are a symptom of a system
        that has left the Biblical standard. If the Church
        of Rome taught and nourished the Word of God, there
        would be less room for the word of he that is in the world
        to penetrate.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: djk55497@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (DJ the Social Guy!)
Subject: Re: Jesus Christ Superstar
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:42:20 GMT

Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>Kerry,  I've seen Godspell, both the stage version and the movie.  It
>was pretty good except that it ended with the Crucifixion, not the
>Resurrection.

Hmmmmmm.....I have done Godspell twice now.  I just finished with the second
production this past Saturday.  I sang we We Beseech Thee.  Anyway, in both
productions I did, we ended with the resurrection.  Infact the closing music
was written to be the Resurrection.  Godspell is excellent!!!  Most of the 
lines were taken directly from the Gospel of Matthew and others from the 
Gospel of Luke (Prodigal Son, etc.)  I found Godspell to be a very non-
threatening means of sharing the Gospel.  People laugh and cry throughout
the performance and are left with a positive portrayal of Jesus that the
audience must then take home and interpret.  Well, at least, that's how we
tried to perform it both times.  Of course the first time I did it was in
a Catholic High School, this last time my church put the production together.
Oh well....I think it really matters in what the director wants to do with it.

	DJ
		the Social Guy

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: christia@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"christia@asuacad"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:30:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      AIDS/Condoms

I would not be averse to dropping the AIDS/condom topic altogether.

My ONLY goal was to express an opposing viewpoint to the Safe Sex
series posted by M Kline, NOT to get drawn into a bloody public
slug-fest over individual points on the issue.

I have read a few posts from people expressing dissatisfaction with
the tone of the AIDS/condom postings, but NO messages, either public
or private, saying "I'm glad this topic is being discussed".

I AM a little surprised when people are startled when I hold a
liberal position on something.  How often have I defended the
conservative viewpoint?  However, I don't believe things because
they are liberal, but because I feel they are right and because I
feel they can be justified Scripturally.  I imagine this is why
others hold the opinions they hold as well.

One final note: After May 15th, I will no longer have access to
the Net.  I will be moving back to Michigan.  So one way or another,
my liberal views will cease to irritate people after that date.

After thoughtful consideration, I have decided that a better way
to counter the Safe Sex/John Ankerburg postings would be simply to
begin posting Myth of Heterosexual AIDS/Michael Fumento articles and
chapters.

I am hoping that won't be necessary, but it would be better than
personal rebuttals, and avoid a great deal of the loose emotion
flying about concerning this issue.

A moot point, if the entire issue is dropped.  What's the consensus?

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
>   Darryl K. Johnson      I  "To free a man of error is  <
>   Texas Christian        I   to give, not to take away. <
>   University             I   Knowledge that a thing is  <
>   Fort Worth, Texas      I   false is a truth."         <
>                          I    -- Arthur Schopenhauer    <
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
/ DJOHNSON@tcucvms.bitnet      DJOHNSON@gamma.is.tcu.edu  \
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU