From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Re: HELP! Landlord refuses to return rent overpayment
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:25:51 GMT

In article <84871@bcsaic.boeing.com> milan@bcsaic.boeing.com (Milan Richter) writes:
>I need an advice on how to make my former landlord refund me part of my 
>rent.

No problem there!  You follow it at your own risk, though.  I'm not
giving legal advice, of course :).  That would be practicing law without
a license, and since I'm a law-abiding citizen, I would *never* do that.
[ careful distinction we must make there -- *practicing* the law is not the
same as *abiding* by the law, license or not [ exercise for the reader:
do the two have anything at all to do with each other? why or why not? ] --
otherwise we'd all be in big trouble! :) ]

>In the beginning of September I moved out of an apartment. Since I did 
>not give 20 days notice, I had to pay rent for the whole month. (ThatUs 
>fine, it was my mistake not to notify them earlier.) When I was leaving, 
>I asked the manager of the complex if she could refund me part of the 
>rent if someone moves in before the end of the month. She agreed.

She was just giving you the brush-off.  She wanted you to get out of her
hair and chose the most expeditious method.  Any other answer she gave would
only have prolonged the conversation, which she plainly wasn't interested
in doing.  So she said, "yeah, yeah, sure" and you took that as "agreement".

You surely didn't think that she was going to leave the apartment empty,
did you??

>On Sunday, September 27, I went back to see if the apartment is still 
>unoccupied, and found that somebody moved in. I knocked on the door and 
>spoke to the tenant - a lady. She said she just moved in on Friday. I 
>explained why I was asking and she told me that she was assured by the 
>manager she did not have to pay any rent for September.

Of course not -- you paid it, then moved out early.

>On Monday I called the manager and told her that somebody lives in the 
>apartment. She first tried to convince me that nobody lives there, but 
>when I told her that I actually spoke to the tenant, she reversed and 
>said that she just allowed the lady to move in some of her belongings 
>and that she does not occupy the apartment.
>
>I went back the same afternoon, and spoke again to the tenant. She was 
>apparently already instructed by the manager, was very defensive and 
>kept repeating that she has not signed the lease yet. (I wonder how 
>somebody can move into an apartment without signing anything.)

Yeah, she's worried about losing her living space, or it getting invaded!
Of course, she's defensive.  She doesn't know who you are.  You're just some
dude on her front stoop with a sob story.  The last thing she wants right
now is an imbroglio with her landlady.

>On Wednesday I called the manager and asked her for her name, as I want 
>to complain.

You didn't know the manager's name??  How can you rent an apartment without
learning that?  Jeez, if you don't even know the name of the person you made
an agreement with, I don't see any possible way of enforcing the agreement.

>             She replied that I had been harassing(!) her tenant

That surely must be how the tenant sees it, at any rate.

>                                                                 and 
>that she wants me off the property, but gave me her name.

Let me guess...Helen Waite! :) :) [*snork*]

>I called the head office of the property management company and spoke to 
>the supervisor of the manager. I told him that I paid the entire 
>September rent and that somebody has already moved in, and asked for 
>refund. Without hesitation, he said they will pay me back and that heUd 
>contact me in a week.

...and told you to hold your breath until then.

>Twelve days went by, he never called, and hasnUt returned my messages. 

...and I'm running out of oxygen! :)

>Finally, I reached him. He told me that he spike to the manager, and 
>repeated the whole story about the tenant actually not signing the lease  
>until October. He also said that I can take whatever action I want if I 
>want to complain.

He's just going to give you a run-around and do a number on you, hoping
you'll go away.

>I have a written statement of two other tenants who saw the new tenant 
>moved in and testify that the tenant lived in the apartment at least 6 
>days in September. Although that amounts to only about $154 of rent, I 
>feel quite upset about being jerked around this way.
>
>I would appreciate any advice on a possible legal or other recourse.
>Apart from getting my money back, I wonder if Better Business Bureau
>or any other watchdog organization may be interested in my experience.
[...]

There may be a Tenants Union where you live.  I know there's a Seattle
Tenant's Union; they participated in the recent squat over by 3rd (or 4th?)
& Marion that just got evicted a week or so ago.  Usually they are pretty
savvy about tenant recourse.

There are books on Washington landlord-tenant (LT) law in print.  Go to a
major bookstore, such as Elliott Bay Books, and ask (I don't recall the
titles).  The law, while predominantly slanted in favor of landlords
(well, who *wrote* it?), does have fairly definite legal remedies for
tenants.

You might want to check out Small Claims Court (SCC), where you must argue
your own case (*not* an attorney you hire) before a judge.  There are
books on that, too.  I don't recall if SCC deals with LT disputes, though.
I vaguely recall hearing about a process that exists specifically for such
LT disputes; it may just be arbitration or another conflict-resolution device.
SCC isn't perfect, either.  You can *win* a judgement against somebody, but
it's a whole different matter *collecting* on it.

Much would depend, IMO, on what kind of paper trail you have to back
up your story.  If you have a lease with definite provisions as to what
happens to deposits, etc., and can point to a clear violation of the lease
on the landlord's part, you might be able to win a judgement against the
landlord.  With no paper, i. e., just a "verbal" agreement,
frankly your story is kind of weak -- your word against the landlord's --
not to invalidate your feelings of getting screwed, but you were kind of
naive.  If you drop a $100 bill on the sidewalk and it has your name and
address on it, you should not expect to get it back, even though "justice"
says that the bill is "rightfully" yours.

Get the book on LT law, at least, and read it.  If legal remedies prove
unsatisfactory, you may also want to consider reading some of the "dirty
tricks" books by "George Hayduke" that Loompanics puts out.  Although
I don't recommend actually doing any of the things Hayduke recommends
[at least if you're unable to cover your tracks sufficiently :)],
the vicarious acting-out can be pretty cathartic, if nothing else.
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
 Nostalgic conservatives will soon be referring to the Bush Era as
 "those Halcion days of yesteryear".