HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Party Face, Net Face was Appearances on and off the net
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:41:42
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1993Jan23.154817.11109@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
	<MUFFY.93Jan23184048@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<1993Jan25.184954.27071@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk's message of 25 Jan 93 18:49:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.184954.27071@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
> In article <MUFFY.93Jan23184048@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
> >Me, I clean in the nude...*grin*.>Some people seem to get excited
> >watching other people work in the nude, I'm not sure why...*GRIN*.

> And, for some reason, kitchens have become peculiarly erotically-charged
> places for me ever since I met Justin...

*grin*...good point, I cook nude, too.  Especially when frying bacon...
and, of course, I like to use my lovers as kitchen slaves...

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      |~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            | but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   | light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.| somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: grumble
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:44:07
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1993Jan15.172533.4080@vpnet.chi.il.us> <1j9s84$ik6@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<MUFFY.93Jan16135633@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<C144Bv.Gq7@newcastle.ac.uk> <ZEN.93Jan19194758@death.corp.sun.com>
	<C1A49n.AAF@newcastle.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk's message of 22 Jan 93 23:36:59 GMT

In article <C1A49n.AAF@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
>zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>>  *laugh*  No... *no one* would avoid going to bed with muffy.  Well...

>Wow, Helen of Troy eat your heart out. Even gay men and straight women?
>She must have a helluva time fighting them off.

*smile*...actually, I have had several straight (as far as I know) women
in bed with me.  No gay men that I know of, but that may just be because
so few of my friends are gay men.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      |~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            | but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   | light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.| somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: carl@sscl.uwo.ca (Carl Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Set the WayBack Machine (Coming Out)
Organization: Soc.Sci.Comp.Lab., U.West.Ont.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:12:24 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi

In article <8208@skye.ed.ac.uk>, ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
> 
> In article <C0yxFy.40A@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca>
> nigel@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca (Nigel M Burnett) writes:
> 
> #  "I've posted n>2 times and nobody noticed, pout", then the floodgates
> #  shall open
> 
> If your floodgates open, do tell us all about it. 

Being the owner of the floodgates in question, I can assure you that they
have in fact been opened very slightly. :(  ;)

Carl (who still has plenty of crumbs left from his de-mufffining)


*******************************************************************************
*  See how the heart reaches  *  Carl Kaufmann   *    Trust is the ultimate   *
*  out instinctively, for no  * Soc.Sci.Comp.Lab *    aphrodisiac.            *
*  reason but to touch.       *    U.West.Ont    *                            *
*        -Kate Bush           * carl@sscl.uwo.ca *       -Me                  *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: newsnight last night (Re:Colorado)
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:01:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.105402.2316@specialix.co.uk> kamal@specialix.co.uk (Kamal Mortoza) writes:
> [ ... ]  But then I thought, how come we
>(our media) are so busy bashing America for homophobia when there is so
>much of it closer to home ? [ ... ]
>
Well, homophobia in this country is, to a large extent, propogated (if
not originated) by the authorities -- eg the police have a "It's not
serious enough to be too bothered with" attitude to queer-bashing.  The
Beeb frequently get attacked by the government for supposed bias towards
the opposition etc, and in the current climate of upheavals in broadcasting,
they (the Beeb) are trying not to draw too much flak to themselves.  Doing
this sort of thing to America is alright, because it's foreign ground. The
same sort of programme about this country would create an outcry, and the
sort of fuss the Beeb want to avoid....

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitute for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:08:25 GMT

:>14a.	Are threesomes really that good?
:>
:>	Several answers spring to mind:
:>
:>	o Try it and see.
:>
:>	o Actually, any biblical number should give good results. After
:>	  a threesome you should also try having sex in groups of 7 and
:>	  40. Note:  there is some dispute about whether it is biblical
:>	  numbers or the Fibonacci sequence which gives the best group
:>	  size for orgies.

:I'm a bit reluctant to encourage the myth that threesomes are a part of
:bisexuality in general... what do other people think?

So am I.  I am reluctant to not address, as part of the answer to this
question, a major element of bi oppression: that bis must be
polyamorous or so oversexed and undiscriminating that they'll fuck
"anything that moves."

These answers are great, but I'd also like to see a direct answer that
says something like "Some people really like them, others hate the
very idea.  If you're interested, consider trying it.  But you
certainly don't have to have threesomes to be bisexual."

 -Alan
From: orc@sybase.com (Orc)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
Date: 25 Jan 93 00:36:04 GMT
Reply-To: ss19@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Ambiguity

In article <C19zME.483@news.udel.edu> eowyn@chopin.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
[e-flirting]
>I meant where (portion of anatomy) not, where (location in the Real World)
>Although I notice that *you're* on the same continent....
>Wanna a warm-up?
>
>Zoe
>(hoping to get a rep. as a shameless e-flirt)

   9.2

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ canary?  *what* canary?
                  \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Introductions (was Re: Lovely film, I cried)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:13:57 +0000

:>Yes! I've been searching this news group all week looking for an article I
:>could reply to. I did not want to an introductory article.

:Jolly good, I say!  None of this "hello I'm a muffin" nonsense.  I
:mean, when I meet new people in real life, I don't throw myself at
:them and ask for a hug (that comes later, hopefully...)

I would, if I thought I could get away with it :-)

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eowyn@chopin.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis)
Subject: Re: gratuitous mumbling
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:15:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.035159.16413@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>In article <C14AEB.8JG@news.udel.edu>
> eowyn@brahms.udel.edu (Zoe Antonia Velonis) writes:
>>
>>Crash space is available...no roommate for the next three weeks....
>>need I say more?
>
>Wow . . . is this an open invitation?

um...depends who's asking...for you?  anytime....

>*grin*  *flirt*

*flirt*   *wink*

>Coming Soon . . . Soc.bi party at Zoe's . . .
>(for those of us on this side of the pond who can't make it to
>Dave's party)
>
>Darren
>(gleefully sending flirtacious winks in the Delaware direction)

Oh boy....my roommate would *love* me!   But she does have a boyfriend,
and has warned me that he'll be staying over a lot...retaliation time!

How 'bout me and Jim have a joint party? He's already throwing a huge
one this weekend...

mid-February, huh?
*flirt* *flirt*

Zoe
(soon-to-be shameless e-flirt)

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: This is a post.
Keywords: Whatever.
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:34:20 GMT
Organization: the house on the corner

In article <1993Jan25.220741.20253@midway.uchicago.edu> ss19@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.181453.22284@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet) writes:
>>
>>How does a North NJ soc.bi party sound?  Anyone?  Anyone?
>
>   When?

CFV: date for North NJ party.....get your vote in now....bidding starts
soon.....Points?......Orc?......other travelling or resident soc.bi-ers?


Piglet, not sure what she's letting herself in for, but sure to enjoy it
        no end.....
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:18:54 +0000

: This gay soda thread sort of reminds me of my first trip to Canada, and
: seeing all the S.O. gas stations, and thinking how romantic that was...

And they're so perceptive.  You go to a dairy for a pint of milk and
they ask 'Homo?' ...

G
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: gratuitous mumbling
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:39:06 GMT

In article <C171L7.HJ4@news.udel.edu>
 jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (James Carroll) writes:
>
>-James, who will make a party if someone comes

*blink blink*  Do you mean before, during, or after the party?

(or a combination of the above?)

Darren
(already in desparate need of another vacation)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: vashti@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Vashti Galpin)
Subject: Re: Why I read a.s.a.r. (was: For Non-Abused Skeptics)
Organization: None at all, I used it all up
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:12:00 GMT

In <1993Jan19.135641.20454@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@sybase.com (Orc) writes:
>   ...  The subject has, as you may have seen, been
>brought up several times, because some of us, even the promiscuous
>ones, do have reservations about the level of affection one would
>find at parties.  Bailing out is understandable, but distressing,
>because there are surely enough soc.bi readers who don't care for
>massive pdaing to show up at the party and make most of it a
>conversation-friendly place.

I find the reason why I get quite uncomfortable in the presence of
massive pdaing (or even not so massive) is I feel curious and want to
watch (I guess this is called voyeurism), but there seem to be
conventions that say this is not done; and I can understand that the
people being stared at may feel a little awkward (I guess if they don't
it's called exhibitionism :-).  I could well imagine myself watching
for a while, seeing the dynamics, understanding what I am feeling,
learning how to decline unwanted affection subtly and then deciding to
get involved (if this is an option; there is always this nagging worry
that I won't be welcome) or maybe not. But I don't know if the space
exists for this.
								____
								\bi/
Vashti, who has almost, almost finished her thesis and           \/ 
is thinking about the rest of her life.

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: Bisexuality and androgyny
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:24:10 GMT

In article <1k2a10INNq9o@network.ucsd.edu> vanhoek@bend.ucsd.edu (Karen van Hoek) writes:
>I recently read the book _Closer to Home_; many of the essays talk about
>how the bisexual movement is going to do away with gender and lead us
>to a truly androgynous society.   It got me wondering -- _are_ we all
>into androgyny, and if so, to what extent?  Certainly I'm a feminist
>and in favor of doing away with all societally-restricted roles and
>codes of behavior based on gender -- but I'm not sure I'd say I'm really
>for "androgyny".  And the idea that being bisexual means you don't
>notice or care about gender -- not true for me.  I like men who look
>masculine, with as many of the secondary sex characteristics as possible
>(deep voice, body hair, muscles, etc.), and I like women who look and
>dress feminine (I tend to wear skirts and makeup a fair bit, myself).
>I wonder if I'm unusual, and if everyone else in the bi movement likes
>the androgynous look for both sexes.  Any comments?
>
>Karen

I like people to be comfortable.  Nothing turns me off more than someone's
constant insecurity about his/her appearance, whether the issue is social
acceptance or danger of physical attack.  That's a lot of what I don't
like about homophobia -- it's not just what homophobia does to queerfolk,
it's also what it does to almost everyone else, too!

I know I don't like things the way they are.  I also know I would hate it
as much (maybe more) if most people were insecure about whether they were
androgynous enough to pass for "normal" in a society where androgyny was
the norm.

I was at an Ani DeFranco performance Sunday night, and, clueless me, was
surprised to see that her fandom seems, in the majority, to be Lesbian.
(I try not to make assumptions about people's sexuality, but many people
want you to, so why not?)  Many of the women there were some of the cutest
"boys" I've seen in awhile, but in sorting out the components of my
attraction to them, it was hard for me to tell whether what I was attracted
to was an aura of confidence, how much of that aura was implicitly
signalled by dress and demeanor, how much of it was an "really" an
attraction to men, blah, blah, etc.  All rather boring, actually.

So what am I trying to say, here?  Just that I don't see bisexuality
and/or androgyny as some kind of eschatological ideal.  That old fallacy
lurking behind some of those essays in _Closer to Home_ might be
"everything would be OK if everyone was more like me."  Hah, yeah, right.
---
Michael Turner
miket@tcs.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Re: Clueless hetboys and bi's
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:47:45 GMT

In article <MJB.93Jan25222817@motmot.doc.ic.ac.uk> mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown) writes:

>and the straight man
>is probably less interested in watching men. 

>-Morven [tired, and hoping the above points make *some* sense]

This reminded me - I have a straight male friend that wants to go to a 
gay male bath house "just to watch other people have sex".

I hope he does it.



-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 01:34:26 GMT

 as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii) writes:
> cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace) writes:
>
>
>>I really like Delirium, that totally anarchic mixture of wild, crazy, 
>>steampot bubbling happiness yet an underlying and deep insecurity 
>>strikes a chord in me. She's pretty and weird and crazy. That's what 
>>I like in Delirium. 

<smile lazily> I want to meet Tori Amos and Kathy Acker. I'd like to see what
happens when the living inspirations of Delirium get together.

>>The latest issue of  Sandman  I have read is "Brief Lives" #6. 
>
>>I agree though -- Dream is, however someone I could deeply fall for 
>>if I ever saw anyone that looked like him in real life...

Did you ever meet Hecate's Warrior? Looks like Dream, but isn't a completely
useless cold fish at relationships.

>>As for a threesome with Death and Dream or Delirium lookalikes... 

Mm. I think anyone female could be a Delirium lookalike - she Changes. But
get Cinnamon (yes, the inspiration for Death was a woman named after *that*
pervading spice) and Hecate's Warrior, and you can count me in, please.

Tanaqui

"Gross stupidity, falsehood and muddled thinking are not dream, and form no
 escape from life to a mind trained above their own level." _The Silver Key_ 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kyraan@bach.udel.edu (Stephen Ch Litterst)
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:27:24 GMT

In article <C1F3r4.Esu@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.170248.28682@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <1993Jan20.164530.29748@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>
>>(Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing?)
>
>Yes, but it's not fair, I tell you, misdirecting me like that! [rubs
>nose ruefully where he's fallen over on it]
>
>
>				Kay
Don't people who have accounts other than where they live just irk you?
I must confess to being bad in that I started sending mail to Cambridge,
Mass. folk from my MIT account.  It's really cruel of some of us to do 
that but I bet Kay enjoys it anyway.  :)

						steve L.


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| "Life is far too brief , Existence is  |
| Stephen C. Litterst           |  meaningless, and the Universe has no  |
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu           \ purpose. That's the way it is, folks."|
|_litterst@freezer.cns.udel.edu___\_________ -Allan Dean Foster__________|
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lovely film, I cried
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:33:49 GMT
Organization: the house on the corner

In article <C1991q.FGr@fulcrum.co.uk> karlg@fulcrum.co.uk (Karl Greenow) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.210928.10009@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet) writes:
>>
>>And a bad one, too.  His scansion sucks!  (No comment on what else
>>might engage in that kind of behavior...)
>
>Seeing as how you're in the States, Piglet, I suppose the following
>sequence of words will mean nothing to you :-
>
>Rowan Atkinson. Barclaycard. Snake bite.

Rowan Atkinson--Mr. Bean...Blackadder...invisible drum/chime set with 
                lurking cat
Barclaycard--ATM, $ machine, card from Royal Bank of Scotland in old wallet
Snake bite--mooshine...homebrew...???

Put 'em together and whadda ya get?  Duh, I dunno...

>Confused? I'm sure Kay can explain. *coy* *blush*

Kay??  Where are you when I need you?


Piglet
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:32:40 GMT

In article <C1F4wv.CC@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk
(the Crisco Kid) writes something like:

>Ah, the soc.bi cabal has its methods... micro-organic agents (in
>fact, most germ warfare techniques using air-dependent life-forms);
>veronal; notices on hoardings; stereophonic sounds; body mechanics;
>whippings; games of 'muffin'; strange fastenings; marijuana; visits
>from seraphim; lambda-calculus; unsteadying, doubtful and
>disallowed plays; trained rodents; customary patterns; writing in
>trochees; facilitators; cabbage (yucch!); lustfulness;
>diseased thrushes; fake death-notices; marriageable elders; raving
>bunnies; omnipresence; unwanted wordiness... and, worst...
>insular crustacean-rainmaker commensalist ghouls from Zimbabwe.

Sorry, I don't see it.
--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: drakon@shell.portal.com (Harry Benjamin Gibson)
Subject: Re: question about the triangle
Organization: Portal Communications Company
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:26:47 GMT

To add something to this whole Bavarian Illuminata thang, another good thing to
read is "Principia Discordia or How I Found Goddes and What I Did to Her When I
Found Her" which is the Magnum Opiate of Malaclypse the Younger of the Paratheo-naametamystikhood of Eris Esoteric. In it it explains how to join this most     ancient and secret order. (It is the most famous secret order in the world.)
(page 70)

Bavarian Illuminati, don't be fooled by imitations.

Pope Ben
From: ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: A philosophical question...
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:13:59 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: William's Wonderful Wonky Widget Warehouse


In article <1993Jan19.020819.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>
cvadrgih@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:

#  Which is worse?
#  
#       For a guy to dump his boyfriend for a girl, or
#       For a guy to dump his boyfriend for another guy.

You need both a boyfriend and a girlfriend.  That way, as the man said,
you can tell your boyfriend that you are spending the night with your
girlfriend, tell your girlfriend that you are spending the night with
your boyfriend, and go to the lab and work. 

Ken Johnson "the doctor is *IN*"





-- 
Son, all the pretty, intelligent, healthy     #    Ken Johnson, AIAI,
young women are taken. It's a basic rule of   #    80 South Bridge, Edinburgh
the universe, and if you don't like it, go    #    Tel 031-650 2756 
somewhere else.        -- my dad  1906-1992   #    Fax 031-650 6513
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bhat@mullauna.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Timothy Alan Heath BELL)
Subject: Biphobic girlfriend!?!
Keywords: help!
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:31:09 GMT

Hello all. I'm after any advice anyone can give on the following problem:

After going out with my girlfriend for six weeks (my first girlfiend -- I'd
only had boyfriends before), I'm now realising how biphobic she is. I've
told her that I'd previously been out with guys, and she was fairly ok with
that. We agreed that I wouldn't go chasing them while I was in a relationship
with her (i.e. monogamy, not polyamory. No I don't want to hear about the
wonders of polyamory just now thanks Joe :).

This is how it all came up: I was planning to compete in the Australian
Gay Games tomorrow, and she was upset at this. I pointed out I wasn't going
there to pick up, but because I wanted to participate in a gay-community-type-
thing. She wondered why I still wanted to associate with gays, and I said that
I wasn't straight, and I wasn't gay, but I still felt a bond to the gay
community (a bit, anyway). Then she said I couldn't be both, and I realised
where she really was: i.e.: not understanding really the idea of bisexuality.
She'd been thinking that by going out with her I'd decided to reject my gay
side and turn het (or something like that).

So anyway, that's the basic situation. Some other facts:
	- this is her first relationship (she's 19, I'm 20)
	- her older sister has just got over an infatuation with a gay guy,
	  who wouldn't 'go out' with her, but was a friend.
	- she's not well versed in feminism: I was trying to persuade her that
	  she does have a say in our relationship, and that I didn't want her
	  to agree to things without mentioning her opinion.
	- she is important to me, and I do want to make this work.

Anyway, what I'm asking (for those still with me) is for any ideas about how
to approach things when I have lunch with her tomorrow. (I'm not competing in
the Games). Any ideas welcome. (I won't knock back sympathy either.)

Thanks for being there, all you imaginary (? :) people out there!

Tim.

---.- ---- - ----- --------- -- ------ ----- --- ----- -------- ---------
Tim Bell.	Computer Science, University of Melbourne , Australia
bhat@mullauna.cs.mu.oz.au  --  This space for rent.
------- --------- --- -- --- -------- ---- ------ -- ------ ---- --- ---