HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: naidu@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (naidu.gandham)
Subject: Thanksgiving in NY, PA, New England?
Keywords: PA, NY, New England, Thanksgiving Ideas needed
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:04:13 GMT


I decided to tap the net's collective wisdom for ideas for
a short Thanksgiving vacation in the NY, PA and New England
areas.  We are generally looking for outdoor activities/ideas.
I realize the weather is going to be chilly/cold in most of
these places but would like to give it a shot anyway.

Thanks a lot...will summarize if there is interest.

PS: I'm not a regular reader of this newsgroup, so email will
    be appreciated.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                    |           Naidu Gandham
.CleverStuff under renovation...    |       naidu.gandham@att.com
                                    |            908 576 2062
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sierra Nevada in May
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:22:14 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

The worst accident in the Sierra occurred in May.
If you aren't prepared, then it's evolution in action.

Best skiing?  In May?  Huh?  Try March.  May is for climbing.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast)
Subject: Re: Trip Report: Guns n Chainsaws
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.132465.9187@burp.com>, ddimwid@burp.com (Delburt Dimwiddy) writes:
> 
>    We'd just gotten the new truck and got a little crazy and decided
> to go camping.  We invited our next door neighbors, Skeeter and Winnie,

[...]

	I'm sure this post will upset some people, but I thought it
was absolutely hilarious. Would whoever wrote it, please send me an
e-mail address to which I can write? 

--
  John Palmer    London, Ontario       Voice: (519) 661-3533     FAX: 661-3666
  reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca       The Economics Institute for Journalists
  ============================================================================
  The New Economics: Overlapping Generalizations & Rationalized Expectorations
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC)
Subject: Re: BC in the movies [still diverging]
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:33:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.224225.44410@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> scvax@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>It was quite horrifying !!  

The Horror. The Horror.

I don't know why, but films of REAL executions are the 
most horrifying thing I can think of.   How can you stand
there with another fellow human, then pick up a gun and kill them.
And, how can you just stand there and film it?  

When I was in junior high school, we were news reals
of WWI.  One little segment showed a couple of dozen guys in Russia
tied up on the ground.  They were sort of looking up and smiling
at the camera.  Then in in groups they took them and lined them up
near a big hole.  Then shot them.  Their heads and hats would sort
of fly up in the air and their bodies would fall back into the grave.
I saw that film maybe 20 years ago, and even at this moment it
is causing me to get very noxious and giving me a sort of cold sweat.

Worse than a film of a crime, worse than a film of a accident.
It's the premedition that seems to make the difference.

I wonder if it would bug me as much if I worked in a slaughter house?

(Sometimes, just realizing that a red liquid is swooshing around inside
my head right now, gives me the Willies. And it could come squirting 
out like a garden hose if pencil next to me just happened to fly up
and hit me in the neck. This closer to the Edge  thinking is why I 
love Monty Python)

I wonder if ordered to, I could do it?  Probably, 
given the right (wrong) set of circumstances, 
which bugs me even more.

John S. Watson, Civil Servent from Hell          ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov
HOMEBREW NAKED! --- Ursus cerevisiae nudium  (The Bare Beer Bear)

#include <stddsclm.h> 
From: frankh@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Frank Hamlin)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:51:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Video in the Backcountry
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

>In rec.backcountry, graham@cs.montana.edu (Jonathan Graham) writes:
>
>
>    	I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with filming
>    (video) in the backcountry?  My main problem has to do with batteries.
>    The weight/life ratio isn't really conducive to multi-day treks.  
>    Has anyone used or heard of any super-long-extended life batteries. Or
>    know of a way to recharge the batteries in the wilderness.  
>
>				
>    					-Jon
>
I carried an extra battery pack which was being charged by the solar
collector on top of my pack.
From: shaun@ca.merl.com (Shaun Wilkinson MPU)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: REI Cyclops Bivy Bag
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:47:48 GMT
Organization: Mitsubishi Electric Research Laboratories, Sunnyvale, CA.


I'm going to buy a Bivy Bag and I think that my choice
is the REI Cyclops bag. For those of you who are not
familiar with this bag, it has an opening in the top flap
of the bag that you can stick your head into and thus
you are able to sit up in your bivy bag and place your
arms out without really leaving the bivy bag itself.
I have three questions that perhaps someone who
is a fan of this bag can answer:

1. Do you really use the hood?

2. If it is raining outside, can you stay
 reasonably dry inside?

3. Is it useful to get the insect netting for
 the hood itself?



-- Shaun Wilkinson
   shaun@ca.merl.com


                       ^    ^
                      / \  //\
        |\___/|      /   \//  .\           
        /O  O  \__  /    //  | \ \     Dragons and Compilers go hand-in-hand.
       /     /  \/_/    //   |  \  \         
       @___@'    \/_   //    |   \   \       
          |       \/_ //     |    \    \     
          |        \///      |     \     \                       
         _|_ /   )  //       |      \     _\
        '/,_ _ _/  ( ; -.    |    _ _\.-~        .-~~~^-.
        ,-{        _      `-.|.-~-.           .~         `.
         '/\      /                 ~-. _ .-~      .-~^-.  \
            `.   {            }                   /      \  \
          .----~-.\        \-'                 .~         \  `. \^-.
         ///.----..>    c   \             _ -~             `.  ^-`   ^-_
           ///-._ _ _ _ _ _ _}^ - - - - ~                     ~--,   .-~
                                                                /.-~


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing,rec.skiing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Direct Euro-belays
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:59:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.215307.12578@megatek.com>, max@megatek.com
 (Max Elliot) writes:
|>From article <1992Nov5.162618.5424@aber.ac.uk>, by azw@aber.ac.uk
|>(Andrew Michael Woodward):
  [ blah blah blah ]
|>> Dont send me any Email, I couldnt give a toss about your opinions
|>
|>  I won't. I'll flame you openly!

|>  So. You belay your partner directly to the anchor without being
|>  tied in to the rope yourself? If not, then how is it that you will
|>  have a chance to 'solo' off the rock if your partner takes a fall
|>  which rips the anchor out? If you are tied in, you are going where
|>  your partner goes, whether you like it or not! If you are not tied
|>  in you could lose a fall through the anchor just by letting go of
|>  the rope (your partner would take a grounder). You are either 
|>  confused, insane or both. I would never climb with you and I doubt
|>  anyone else would. I'll have my partner tied to me at all times, 
|>  I'll belay him through me by way of an anchor that would hold us
|>  BOTH in ANY situation, thank you very much.
|>
|>  Creator of decent anchors - Max Elliott.
               ^^^^^^

As opposed to Andrew = Creator of descent anchors???

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|>>>>>>>Official Disclaimer <<<<<<<<<<<<
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|" Only the names here are fictitious.
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|  The story, unfortunately, is
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|  absolutely true. " - Joseph Brodesky
From: helmuthn@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Helmuth Naumer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing.  Was: Trip rpt: SE Utah 4wd vacation, part 3/4
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:37:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing

In article <1992Nov10.185820.25091@news.uiowa.edu> donath@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Matt Donath) writes:

>Could someone please explain to me why Abbey is revered for Desert Solitaire?
>As far as I can remember, he does the following things in the book:
>
>	> Says that he'd rather kill a man than a snake and then kills
>	  a rabbit for no other reason than pleasure.

{Lots of Items deleted here}

>
>If I had the book in front of me I could easily go on and on about the
>mass of contradictions and the many ignominious things he does in this
>book.  I remember being sorely disappointed in it.  In fact, about the
>only thing I agreed with Abbey on was his dislike of cars in the
>National Parks.

You have stumbled onto something....

Desert Solitaire was not written for you it was written about you :-).

Abbey has (had) a wonderful vision of the world, natural, human, and
personal.  His descriptions are some of the finest I have read (I don't 
know how many time I have read Desert Solitaire).

Abbey is also Witty and Combative; he attacks Everyone (including The
Logical and the Environmental) with Sarcasm and Symbolism.  Therefore,
if he doesn't piss you off, you must be a vegetable.

My favorite contradiction is where he measures driving distances in Numbers
of Six Packs (My God!  Drink and Drive!  How Politically Incorrect) and
throws the cans out the window (Ahhh!  Littering!!). I think Abbey would 
argue that his action is nothing in comparison to the Rape of Damn Builders 
and Oil Drillers, and that any one who attacks him for his actions is petty 
and should be spending their efforts on the real monsters.  Actually, he
wouldn't argue at all, he would just find something that you are involved in
which is just as bad (No one is pure in this world <and Abbey admits his
is not>).

And Finally, if you don't like his books, I think he could care less.
So.....What is the point? To criticize people who like his prose??
Sounds like something to do I guess...of course there are those Oil
Companies out there.....

H.
-- 
|----------|  Helmuth Naumer (206) 544-9641 
|   HKN    |  BCS;  P.O. Box 24346, M/S 2H-09;  Seattle, WA 98124-0346
|----------|  helmuthn@dsp35001.boeing.com    or  helmuthn@bcstec.boeing.com
||||||||||||  uunet!bcstec!dsp35001!helmuthn  or  uunet!bcstec!helmuthn
From: john@ahuriri.gen.nz
Subject: Re: New Zealand Macpac Tents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:08:48 GMT
Organization: Organisation? Where?
Reply-To: john@ahuriri.gen.nz
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Distribution: world
X-Newsreader: Simple News for Windows V1.0

In article <Bx4yu2.2LL@dcs.ed.ac.uk> <Bx4yu2.2LL@dcs.ed.ac.uk> wrote:


  > Does anyone have an opinion on tents made by the New Zealand company Macpac?
  > Specifically their three hooped tunnel tent Olympus.

I have a Spectrum which I'm really pleased with and friends have Olympus's
which have been in some pretty extreme conditions.  One of these people
was climbing in Europe a year or so back and said he never saw anything
better than his Olympus.

  > I'm worried about its stability in very windy weather (of which we've got
  > enough in Scotland.)

You can guy them out.  The are also versions of the Olympus and Minaret with
snow flaps on the fly.

cheers, John

--



--------------------------------------
John McCombs       john@ahuriri.gen.nz
ph +64-3-665-234     fax +64-3-655-755
Christchurch,              New Zealand
--------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: Rainbow Gathering
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:57:50
In-reply-to: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov's message of Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:37:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.173713.3365@eos.arc.nasa.gov> dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:

   Marcus L. Endicott <mendicott@igc.apc.org> writes:

   >Rainbow Family tribal gatherings are now being discussed in:
   >     alt.gathering.rainbow

   How unfortunate! I once came across one of these gatherings
   in the Big Sur area (of course they were camped around the hot
   springs). I thought I had walked into the filming of the
   Last Temptation of Crist...the sequel! Four days later I had
   looped back to the spot where I had seen them last; they had
   since hiked out, and the place was trashed. I just despise large
   groups of backpackers, whether it be Rainbowers, Sierra Clubbers,
   or the Boy Scouts. People who travel in packs "tend" to be very
   destructive.

I find this very surprising.  I have read a great deal about Rainbow
gatherings and they make quite an effort to return the area to its
initial state.  Are you sure it was a Rainbow gathering?

tim
--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bear Defense
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:02:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Personally I like the Swiss Army pocket knife for this.  Makes a nice, smooth
split of the bullet so that there is no jaggedness, and hence less chance of
a bad airflow around the bullet half to deflect it.  Only problem I have, so
far, is that it hurts the wrist when the bullet hits the blade.  Keeping the
blade sharp seems to lessen the shock a little, though.

Bill Blohm     

*******************************************************************************
Standard disclaimers apply, even if nobody ever listens to me.
*******************************************************************************

bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com     \\
mage@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         =======\  You pays your money, takes your pick.
bill@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         =======/  They all reach me, or soon or late.
bill_blohm@hp4600.desk.hp.com  //
                           
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: RZAA00@email.sps.mot.com (Jim)
Subject: Re: Abbey bashing. 
Organization: Motorola SPS
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:57:04 GMT

In article <Nov11.191952.43471@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
> 
> Careful: Knocking Abbey in rec.backcountry is like standing up in church and
> shouting, "I hate Jesus."
> 
I am 27 and have done a lot of backpacking, hunting, hiking, four
wheeling (on roads only), and other wandering around in the back-
country.  This was the first mention of whoever "Abbey" is, to me.  
The comments I heard here about what he did, did not impress me.  
I don't get into reading books about environmental types though.
Maybe I am too young to have heard of him.  If he is a monkey wrenching
advocate, I have to say I have no use for him though, that kind of 
stuff is vicious.
Jim
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jrichard@bigmax.ulowell.edu (John 'MacGyver' Richardson)
Subject: Fleece Jackets
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:38:57 GMT


I just recently bought a North Face fleece (300 wt) jacket.  I've only worn
it around town, to school, and back, but I really like it.  I'd say it
keeps me as warm as anything I've used for daily use and is really light
weight.  I'm even thinking of getting a Gore-Tex shell for it and using
it for day tripping.  (To think I just washed my down parka!)

Are there any detractions to this stuff?  It seems pretty durable, doesn't
protect against the wind much (but that's for a shell anyway), and is 
in general the best 80 bucks I've spent on clothes in a long time!

Pardon me if this is general knowledge, I used to be a dyed-in-the-wool
wool fan (pun intended).


John Richardson            |"sun dogs fire on the horizon        \ \   \
jrichard@cs.ulowell.edu    | meteor rain stars across the night   * *   \   /\
			   | ...the spark still flies                /\  * /  \
"Anyone have some duct 	   | reflected in another pair of eyes." /\ /  \/\/
tape?!?"	           |              -- Neil Peart    ------  \   / / 


Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:8657 rec.climbing:4213 rec.skiing:7196
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing,rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Direct Euro-belays
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:34:11 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth


Rplying to my own post...The first sign of madness?

I am a complete TIT. Trying to do several things at once, I've postd this 
to the wrong grouP!!!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Andy
From: belec@icad.com (Lisa Belec)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Is Gore-Tex overrated ?
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:11:50 GMT
Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA

>
>> IMHO This sums up the arguments for Goretex perfectly- if you want to
>>be comfortable & can afford it then don't hesitate.
>
>> If the cost matters & you are looking for perfection to justify the
>>expense then don't bother.
>
>If cost is a problem, then check out catalogs that cater to hunters,
>specifically Cabella's.  The Goretex raingear I saw in there was
>_much_ cheaper than what I have seen on _sale_ at outdoor outfitters

There are also several "warehouse" type places which sell discontinued
models (i.e. last year's colors) at substantial discounts - one in
particular is Sierra Trading Post (phone 307-775-8000 - call and ask
them to send you a cataolog) - I've had lots of success with them and
their prices are usually really good...I think they get "leftovers"
from various companies.
From: hklrs@usho94.hou281.chevron.com (Kevin Larson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: GoreTex and bears
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:30:10 GMT
Organization: Chevron

>Let me see if I've got this right now. 
>
>- GoreTex is waterproof (won't let water pass through).
>
>- Over 70% of a bear's mass is water.
>
>Therefore, shouldn't a GoreTex garment also protect the wearer from a bear 
>attack? 

   You overlook the 30% of the bear that gets through. More
      than enough.


-- 
KevinLarson( void ) { while( @chevron ) 
                     {  org  ( CPTC/IT/WorksystemsSupport ); 
                        email( hklrs@usho94.hou281.chevron.com );
                        voice( 713.596.2563 ); } }
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: Rainbow Gathering
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:37:13 GMT

Marcus L. Endicott <mendicott@igc.apc.org> writes:

>Rainbow Family tribal gatherings are now being discussed in:

>     alt.gathering.rainbow

How unfortunate! I once came across one of these gatherings
in the Big Sur area (of course they were camped around the hot
springs). I thought I had walked into the filming of the
Last Temptation of Crist...the sequel! Four days later I had
looped back to the spot where I had seen them last; they had
since hiked out, and the place was trashed. I just despise large
groups of backpackers, whether it be Rainbowers, Sierra Clubbers,
or the Boy Scouts. People who travel in packs "tend" to be very
destructive.
From: donath@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Matt Donath)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Abbey bashing.  Was: Trip rpt: SE Utah 4wd vacation, part 3/4
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:58:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Nov9.220903.26887@tandem.com>, by Herberg_David@tandem.com (David Herberg):
> 
{Lots of good trip report stuff deleted.}
> 
> To keep myself company I bought Edward Abbey's _Desert_Solitaire_ at the 
> visitors center.  Wow, that was great, reading the master iconoclast's 
> words in the middle of the country he describes.  The book came in handy 
> the second day, when it rained heavily and I was confined to the tent.
> 
Could someone please explain to me why Abbey is revered for Desert Solitaire?
As far as I can remember, he does the following things in the book:

	> Says that he'd rather kill a man than a snake and then kills
	  a rabbit for no other reason than pleasure.

	> Carves initials in the Aspen trees (on severl occasions).

	> Rolls a tire into the Grand Canyon.

	> Burns out a canyon with a careless fire.

	> Says he doesn't like to disturb a snake and then keeps it
	  inside his trailor.

	> Goes on several hikes without adequate water.

	> Foolishly jumps down into a canyon and almost doesn't make
	  it back out.

	> Gets enjoyment out of the death of a poor old hiker who is
	  lost while hiking.  

	> Rails about how much he hates cities and then winds up by
	  saying how much he misses them.

	> Escapes the solitude of the desert by hitting the bars in
	  town once a week.

If I had the book in front of me I could easily go on and on about the
mass of contradictions and the many ignominious things he does in this
book.  I remember being sorely disappointed in it.  In fact, about the
only thing I agreed with Abbey on was his dislike of cars in the
National Parks.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ahallam@iastate.edu (J A Hallam)
Subject: supermarket foods for backpacking
Keywords: food, inexpensive
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:44:30 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz)
Subject: Re: Video in the Backcountry
Reply-To: afd@bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 13:31:57 GMT
Summary: Me too.


Me too posting.  I'd like to do some videography on an
upcoming trip.  What cameras lend themselves to backpacking,
what precautions do you have to take, etc?  Weight would
seem to be the premium factor, but then - I've never carried
a video camera into the backcountry and something else might
be more important.  Thoughts?

-A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown NJ
afd@hera.cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith)
Subject: Re: BC in the movies (again)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:45:49 GMT

In <ym+qlbf@lynx.unm.edu> mulberry@triton.unm.edu () writes:
>Well, In my opinion the movie with the best  backcountry
>scenery is *The Bear*.  An excellent movie.  Brings back
>fond memories of backpacking and climbing in Canada and 
>astrong desire to return.

Todays trivia quiz is where was most of *The Bear* filmed. The
answer will suprise you.
From: deraadt@newt.cuc.ab.ca (Theo de Raadt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lunches and Snacks: what do you bring?
Date: 5 Nov 92 04:16:05 GMT
	<1992Nov3.170050.11150@guinness.idbsu.edu> <15313@auspex-gw.auspex.com>
Organization: little lizard city

In article <15313@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
   |ok, for the sake of variety, I always take a can of cheap beer, smoked oysters,
   |cheese and crackers.

Ick, not my taste. I take a honeydew mellon. Buy one that is pretty
stiff, then hang it in a bag on the side of the pack. By the time you
get to your destination, boy will it be nice and soft!
 <tdr.
--

This space not left unintentionally unblank.		deraadt@newt.cuc.ab.ca
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry