Approved-By:  Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:30:20 CDT
From:         "Michael S. Hart" <HART@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject:      Network Access (not anonymous)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

              LIBREF <LIBREF-L@KENTVM>,
              Gutenberg Discussion Group <gutnberg@uiucvmd>

Last week Project Gutenberg received several responses to our year-long
search for etexts of data from the 1990 census and Statistical Abstract.

We will compile these reponses into an appendix to our article on how to
get electronic information of this nature, which will be posted.

If you have any information you would like included in this article, you
are invited to send it.

On of the major aspects of this article will be the perceived difference
between on-site patrons, phone patrons and network patrons.  If you have
references to similar articles concerning the transitions from person to
person reference librarianship to telephone access, please let me know.

Preliminary results:

1.  Many people thought we would be bombarded with answers and thus:

    A.  Didn't want to add to the expected avalanche.

    B.  Assumed it was being taken care of by others.


2.  Others responded with suggestions we physically send someone to
    the same places we had contacted via email over the past year.

3.  Many answered that they had the information but had no idea how
    to get it out of their databases, or into human readable form.

4.  Some answered that because they could not provide ALL materials
    requested that the proper response was to provide none.

    A.  We modified the request to include census only materials.

    B.  We then reduced to only to 52 gross population figures.
        Total US, 50 states, plus DC.

    C.  We then reduced to a request for just the US total.
        A single nine digit number.

5.  We then received a few notes saying that people did not yet
    have these figures extracted from their databases, but will
    send them when they get them and that they had not expected
    we would get no responses for such an extended period.

6.  However, by the time we announced this article we had still
    not received any figures.

7.  The announcement of this article apparently prompted many a
    person to send immediate replies, as we received many notes
    over the following weekend, some containing some reports of
    the figures we were seeking.  Someone even spent two hours!
    typing in similar figures to those we had sent out in those
    samples we eventually used to show what we were seeking.

8.  In the most interesting turn of events, one of our people I
    happened to mention this to in the course of hardware notes
    said they had some experience in this area, and volunteered
    to go check out the sources in person.  (Unbeknownset to me
    this was to bring us into contact with someone whom I noted
    on this and related subjects starting a year ago.)  In this
    activity, we did find a very difficult way of getting these
    figures (which would require saving approximately 20 files,
    times 50 states, for a total of at least 1,000 files.  This
    was soon replaced by accessing a single file from Cendata--
    a process which took about 15 minutes (would have been some
    minutes shorter, but it was a 1200 baud connection).  In an
    even more bizarre coincidence, three of these files had one
    bad sector in them after putting them on a disk and getting
    them home. . .the result was that I was sent the files, via
    the network, to replace the three incomplete disk files----
    exactly what I had wanted in the first place but had forced
    myself to give up on.  [Each of the files we got might have
    taken about one minute per k at 1200 baud and we tried some
    other files while we were talking, but the original file is
    the only one, so far, that has what we really wanted.  This
    whole experience took over an hour, maybe two, and we thank
    the librarian who helped us very much.  I exhanged notes on
    this topic and will include some of them in the article but
    have been asked not to reveal the source.

In conclusion, we have finally determined that these files CAN!
be had via requests over the network but that there is possibly
a new paradigm required for this process to actually work in an
entirely new social interaction via the networks, perhaps in an
extrememly similar paradigm that the telephone requires.  Which
of you doesn't know anyone who would prefer not to deal with an
issue over the phone which they would much more easily work on,
if only the person were present in person.

The question becomes. . .what paradigm is required to get files
and other information via the networks.

9.  One remaining response was that we were asking in the wrong
    venue, though perhaps of the right people.

=====================================================

Thank you for your interest,

Michael S. Hart, Professor of Electronic Text
Executive Director of Project Gutenberg Etext
Illinois Benedictine College, Lisle, IL 60532
No official connection to U of Illinois--UIUC
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU