From: sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us (Sean M. Foley)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Keywords: Pentagrams
Date: 20 Dec 92 13:37:54 GMT
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix

In article <1992Dec19.032810.25767@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.171823.8367@uumeme.chi.il.us> sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us (Sean M. Foley) writes:
>
>> I read a post concerning the meaning of pentagrams(inverted) and wanted to
>>"explore" this topic abit more. First off, the inverted pentagram has as
>>much to do with satanists as a cross has to do with christianity; belonging
>>to neither originally, yet adopted by both. The premise that I'm refering to
>
>Right.
>
>> To quote The Beast "Any Devil that is worshipped is no longer a Devil; it is
>>a God", and this idea makes perfect sense in the in the proper light that
>>a Devil is an agent of strife and not conformity. The silliness of the whole
>>matter makes light when one reads an unaltered version of the bible and sees
>>that there is no hell. Back to the matter of the inverted pentagram; The 
>>"Goat Head" is the silliest symbol I have seen yet, and the worst distortion
>>of a symbol as well. 
>>   1> What does the goat head have to do with the inverted
>>pentagram, besides perversion and glamouric attraction?
>
>It is my understanding that the "Goat of Mendes" or "Baphomet" is a symbol
>borrowed from the knights templar. I could be wrong here; it could have more
>to do with pagan fertility-cults (it could be both). I do not think that
>the goat & pentagram were combined this early in time (templar days), if they
>were, my question is answered... The perversion & glamoric attraction has more 
>to do with pop-culture hype and xtian paranoia than any symbolic meanings they
>may have...
  A likely possibility, I wouldn't have understood the relation but I was
thumbing through a book on Baphomet the other night but AGAIN.. Baphomet
is depicted with a verted pentagram. (not an agent of "evil" appearantly")
 And you're right about the hype; glitter attracts people. Something evil
looking like Baphomet could do as such. Heh, that reminds me of when I
look at the "witchcraft" books in stores and they all have some kind of
daemonic depiction on the front cover.. I refuse to buy them.. if only for the
fact that I know it's not going to be written by a practictioner, but a 
bible-thrower, even then one who doesn't know what the bible means. 
>
>>   2> What is the meaning of the goat head? It's a symbol, remember..
>
>See the above comment. Fertility perhaps. A remnant of a pagan god. (Shub-
>niggaroth?)
>
>>   3> What are these symbols used for?
>
>Perhaps to establish a link with previous fraternal orders who used these 
>symbols.
>
  Again; very likely.. Christianity as a whole adopted pagan symbolicness to
say "We do what you do! Join us!". I could see the same thing happening in
any other "cult" as well. 

>> I myself lay no claim to knowing the answer to any of these questions, but
>>I am again inquisting the symbols. I only feel this is of relevance when
>
>Er, I do not understand this statement.
>
 I don't either... so much for coherence..
>>I take some consideration of how my youth in religion was.. I was born
>>a catholic; and kept ignorant of the meanings of all the symbols my whole
>>life. I felt disgusted when I soon learned that these symbols were all
>>borrowed from other "despised" cultures as a means for saying "Hey! we do
>>the same as you do, join our religion!", thank the divine that that never
>>happened. My personal feeling is that most "satanic" is an opposition to an
>>already illusionary system(christianity), and therefore makes it questionable
>>, however, in this case I make no claim to be an authority; I only want to
>
>Only because christianity is pervasive in our culture. Church of Satan, in any
>case, seeks to "root out the sacred lies" in our society that trap people. Just
>happens that christianity is one of the more fruitful sources of these "sacred
>lies". In the "Satanists Bible" LaVey says that parody of christianity is like
>the beating of a dead horse. A modern "Black Mass" would parody & ridicule
>various "humanist" philosophies, the psychedelic movement & etc...
>
>See alt.satanism FAQ for more. This really is not the proper forum for a 
>discussion of "satanic" philosophies & practices...
>
>-Scott
The only downfall of christianity as a whole is that it is WRONG. Yes, there
are a few groups I have no problem with.. But, on the average, they all tend
to be conformity traps(I don't need to be a satanist to know that). 
 Christianity will likely die soon unless it drastically changes...
And at least takes in the importance of freedoms(we no longer live in the 
middle ages).
 In the matter of the satanic bible, I could see why it created so much
controversy. LaVey was right about alot of things, wrong about some but
on the whole had the ability to kick the foundation out from underneath
christianity. I know the book ports many subjective comments but, again
it sheds much light on another perspective. 
 It wasn't a discussion of "satanism" so much as it's mystical content.
I thought that would be out of place in alt.satanism as there are many
satanists that do not give a care about magick, and still many more that
do.. I figured the ones that did read this area as well :).
-Sean
-- 
| sfoley@uumeme.chi.il.us |       I only look like I have a clue.           |
 -  Is it not amazing that so many religions have stolen symbols from other  -
 - religions that they despise? It almost makes you think :                  -
 - "What are they fighting about? They look the same to me!"                 -
Newsgroups: alt.magick