From: marcogan@student.anu.edu.au
Subject: Re: How do axioms really work?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:25:29 GMT

[ Various sets of comments and counter-comments omitted]

Several things seem to have emerged.

Firstly, remember that technology includes materials. In the solo
adventure, the airplane is not only a machine too complicated for the tech
axiom, but a machine made of materials too sophisticated for the tech
axioms. Gliding is a function of shape, not technology; if technology
produces the shape, and the technology (materials) that maintain the
gliding shape are not supported, then the shape will decay: the aeroplane
should have rusted, disintegrated, or whatever. (similarly with synthetic
fabrics in clothing)

The orangewood bowstave example is somewhat more puzzling. Sure, the low
tech axiom means no eidinos will think of using a longer bowstave. But it
should alos mean that the longer bowstave won't work. Remember that the
'laws of physics' Rick talks about are the laws of Core Earth. These 'laws'
are a function of the axioms and World Laws (try explaining the Ayslish Law
of Observation in terms of the 'laws of physics'). So in the Living Land,
there is not necessarily any reason why the longer bow should work... It
might be that at Tech axiom 7, the maximum amount of enegry you can get
from a bow is the amount you would get from a 3' shortbow; a longer bow
will be heavier, harder to pull, but would yield no more energy. 

I think that the axioms _limit_ both possibility and understanding; so not
only will a sailboat not work in the Living Land, anyone operating under
those axioms won't even be able to understand how it could work. However,
axioms do not grant intuitive knowledge, either for possibility-rated
people, or for ords. If they granted intuitive knowledge for the P-rated,
how come some P-rated Zulu (say, Shaka. He must have been P-rated) didn't
invent tech 22 goodies? 

As for the Law of Action, why does the _character_ have to be concious of
'rolling two dice'? One of the properties of Core Earth is that it exist in
three-dimensional space. Are you concious of this thiree dimensionality
every time you turn a corner or go up some stairs? Does one say 'whoa, time
to translate along the z-axis here...' to oneself before climbing a ladder?
No, we just climb. Similarly, Nile characters simply 'try real hard' and
(in the game-implementation of the Nile), get to roll 2 dice. Its the
_player_ who decides _what_ to roll.

Similarly for all world laws. Ayslish charcters are not concious of thier
'honor adds' in the way the players are; Kanawa people may not be aware of
the rewards of vengance in the same way the players are. And, as discussed
a while ago, I think that Possibilities work the same way (i.e, the
charcters are not concious of them in anything resembing the way the
players are)


-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who speak, do not know   	       	Mark Cogan
 Those who know, do not speak"  	       	marcogan@student.anu.edu.au

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg