HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:40:22 EST
From: Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Purity
 <1993Jan3.232019.3702@tcsi.com> <93004.014443SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 <1993Jan4.223344.7425@tcsi.com>

In article <1993Jan4.223344.7425@tcsi.com>, miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner
nmscore Assoc.) says:
>
>In article <93004.014443SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Graydon
><SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>Once upon a time I thought I ought to go around opening people's
>>minds by whatever means came ready to hand.  I turned out to be
>>half decent at it, even, but I grew up a little and stopped.
>
>Well, you stopped, anyway.  Is it so much harder to say something
>like "labels don't work for me," and try to elicit from people
>memories of situations in which *they* have been unpleasantly labeled
>(an almost universal experience)?  And how is it less "adult" to
>do so?  Especially by comparison to responding using the diction of
>a three-year-old?
Ok - it is possible to use 'an instance of an human being', but it
doesn't communicate clearly as often as 'a people'.

If I want other people to respect which shutters I have closed in
my mind, it behooves me to respect theirs.  Which means, to me,
that I can refuse to provide them with a label for myself, or do
my best to refuse their attempts to label me, but that I ought
to leave my opinions of their shutters out of things as much as
I can.

A capacity to believe that one has an understanding of universal, or
even very general, applicability is a trait I associate with adolescence
and madness.

>>Ever run into H. Beam Piper's test for an adult?  That reaction fails it.
>
>It's been a while since I took any definition of "adult" from science
>fiction novelists.  Their main target audience (teen-age boys, in the main)
>and main purpose (escapism) argues against them as a likely source of
>good ones.  There are exceptions, but I wouldn't count H. Beam Piper
>among them.
>---
>Michael Turner
>miket@tcs.com

The defintion in question, which I continue to find a good thumb
rule, asserts that someone is probably an adult if, when you say
something they do not understand, ask you what you mean, rather than
telling you you are crazy.

Graydon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
saundrsg@               "Praise then Darkness and Creation unfinished"
   qucdn.queensu.ca                   - U. K. LeGuin
From: winsor@Not Heresomewhere.out.there (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: I'm coming!
Date: 9 Jan 1993 00:26:31 GMT
Organization: Tiny Income
Distribution: world
Reply-To: winsor@Not Heresomewhere.out.there (js)
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <1993Jan8.072145.15367@tfs.com>, michael@tfs.com (Your message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars to send everywhere.) writes:
*** I just *LOVE* the subject line on this thread!
*** It gives me a warm feeling just seeing the header!
It *WAS* intentional.

Or, is it intensional?

<bouncing happily that *someone* noticed...)

john
-- 
signature file
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Lifestyle (was Re: Coming out to family)
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: BNR, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:24:34 GMT


In article <C0HKnH.B3n@newcastle.ac.uk>, J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
> In <1992Dec23.222808.18332@midway.uchicago.edu> (yes, I'm that far behind)
> pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?)) writes:
> >the word "lifestyle" conjures up images of a chosen way of
> >living.  i didn't choose this.  i have yet to find out what
> >the "gay", "lesbian", or "bisexual" (let alone "queer"!) 
> >"lifestyle" is!  it does seem that often the only thing the 
> >queers i know have in common is their sexuality, just like
> >straights.  
> 
> I think there's a distinction to be drawn here, between inclination and
> behaviour. I didn't choose my sexuality either. But I do choose to sleep
> with people rather than be celibate. Of course, the only thing queers have
> in common is our sexuality, because queer is a sexuality. But the bisexual
> lifestyle, for instance, is one in which you act on your attractions to
> both sexes. In other words, that is a chosen way of living.

I think that lifestyle is defined by the way you choose to live your
life.  If you like purchasing lots of material goods, you live a sort
of "yuppie" lifestyle.  If you enjoy participating in sports, you live
an active lifestyle.  If you prefer to be in the company of gays, you
might consider that you live a queer lifestyle.  Your sexuality can be
a very seperate part of the lifestyle you choose to live.  And, some
friends may describe your lifestyle one way, while others describe it
another way.

Your sexuality is a seperate matter.  I like the Webster's def'n for
sexuality:
	"expression of sexual receptivity or interest"
Bi's, queers and straights all exhibit this.  We're all sexual
creatures.  We also all choose to life our lives in very different,
but sometime similar, ways.


Opinions of,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "If somebody feels really good
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  about who they are, they don't
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  feel threatened by what other
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: grumble
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:11:43 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons) writes:
>an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer) writes:
>|While I'm at it, I have a question for you all:  When you actually
>|meet after weeks/months of talking over the net, how do things
>|generally go?  Just curious.
>
>  Oh, it's a disaster; it turns out we all can't stand each other,
>so we all throw things at each other, then quickly find excuses to
>leave quickly.
>                 ____
>   david parsons \bi/ self-admitted compulsive liar
>                  \/

Oh, I don't know... you were in a bit of a hurry to leave last time *I*
saw you. [To describe the scene graphically would _delight_ the gossips of
soc.bi so I won't :-)]


//jon (I've never thrown anything at anyone)
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_    And they covered up the sun        //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /   until the birds had flown away...  // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/___________________________________///////////  //
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: A hug request and a general growl at the world
Date: 6 Jan 1993 15:40:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: citron.sw.stratus.com


Welcome to the group.

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Okay...okay...here is an official demuffin...
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:46:40 GMT

In article <C054Hq.Fy5.1@cs.cmu.edu> pooh+@cs.cmu.edu (Will Timmins) writes:
>Congradulations!!!
>
>Hugs by the truck load... (I suppose this, too, would be my official demuffin..
>have been lurking for a while, just started posting, and haven't really 
>indicated I was bi. I am. There)
>
Welcome, welcome!

*hugs* to you too...

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (James Carroll)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Urgent notice!
Keywords: Make up your own.
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:10:51 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware Alumni

In article <1993Jan11.180243.24063@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>
>[Kay wonders just how long he can persuade his funding authority that he
>needs to visit Delaware for...]
>

Hopefully a very long time! <flirt>

>		Kay
>
>
>-- 
>the Crisco Kid: quiet, shy, mono, Armani-suited.  Not.  idx009@uk.ac.cov.cck

-James

-- 
I don't mind if I never, ever meet you		   | 			____
I love you just the way you seem		   | jcarroll@		\bi/
I don't mind all the things they say about you	   |  brahms.udel.edu	 \/
Jealous words won't spoil this dream - Jesus Jones |__________________________
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@chopin.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: I'm coming!
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:17:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.182755.8571@pony.Ingres.COM> becki@squid.ingres.com (Rebecca E. Tants) writes:
>
>Becki (aka Roo if you read the right news groups....)
>
More Pooh stuff. :)  Yeah.  Now who wants to be Kanga?
:)

-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: vdijk@io.tudelft.nl
Subject: Re: Impossible acts
Organization: TU Delft, Faculty IO
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:33:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.200717.5432@dcs.warwick.ac.uk>, kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
> Yaaaaaaaaaaay!!! Casper! HUGHUGHUGHUGHUHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUGHUG!
> <nibbles ex-muffin>

Yo!  <got my breath back>  I was waiting for this - never demuffin at
Xmas, lots of nice people might miss you.  Then again, lots of nice
people _did_ notice me :-) :-) :-)
 
> PS: Sorry, still not got round to fixing my .signature on this account :)
> -- 
> the Crisco Kid: nasty pinko faggot agnostic pervert punk.  idx009@uk.ac.cov.cck

Maybe we could collect votes on what to replace this nasty .sig with.
What about:
 'the Crisco Kid: pleasant darkhaired bi smart assertive cutie' ?
(Now you can always say that you didn't make this up yourself..)

Casper

Casper G.C. van Dijk               "Broken words,
Delft University of Technology      never meant to be spoken"
the Netherlands                                    Bob Dylan

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Subject: Re: I'm coming!
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:17:24 GMT

In article <9JAN199312265032@acad3.alaska.edu> ftlao@acad3.alaska.edu (OSSANDER LINDA A) writes:
>
>Hello I am new to this group and in serious need of some hugs...I am what my
>friends all call bi-courious. ;-)  I have lots of friends who are bi and gay
>and lesbian.  The thing I like about them is the fact of how you are accepted. 
>I enjoy them very much and am definately looking at the whole picture.  Just
>wanted to say hello to everyone and let you know I am here.  In Alaska..
>
Welcome and hugs.  Boy another hug because it is probably cold.

>                           -Linda-


-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
   Deconstruct your Gender          Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
If you can't be good,               It just means use your imagination. 
be good at it.  T.B.                     Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar)
Subject: On the Making of Crumbs.
Summary: The process of making crumbs from muffins.
Keywords: ex muffin crumbs
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:35:50 GMT

I am not so sure 'Crumbs' is the best reference to use for 'Ex-Muffins'...
I mean, am I the only one that thinks of Penfold when someone uses that
word? :)

Penfold, is that a muffin I see there?
Crumbs boss!
Thank you Penfold.

-Points (Early morning dragon?  No.)

Gratuitous editor provided letter: b
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
 If the President won't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his Country. -Unknown
________________________________________________________________________________
Jonah E. Safar             R.P.I., Troy, NY              EMail to:safarj@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Daoism, Pooh, and Bisexuals
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:12:39 GMT

In article <wfIDmrq00VpeMk8FMn@andrew.cmu.edu> 
 lord+@andrew.cmu.edu (Tom Lord) writes:
>Even if there is `balance', that presumes that there are two things;
>what are the two things?
>
>`Homosexual', `heterosexual' and `_bi_sexual' all presume that there
>are two, distinct kinds of people and that there is something
>significant about how one's attractions are said to align with the
>division.  I believe that this is a (mostly harmful) myth.

I actually try not to presume this -- at the same time I'm somewhat
limited by what language people will understand.

I'm not, personally, one of the bis who is "gender blind" in 
their responses to people.  But I think "masculine" and "feminine"
are social contructs to a great degree and I want to unbuild some
of these walls.


-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer)
Subject: Re: A hug request and a general growl at the world
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:03:33 GMT

seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
> I also bitched about my mother who "came out" as quite the homophobic
> bigot.  "I don't like homosexuals, because they are promiscuous."
> In addition to that she said lots of things like she doesn't like to
> even touch them because they are at such a risk for AIDS.  She just
> flat out doesn't like them . (period)
> BTW, she hasn't the foggiest about my bihood.

	I would love it if my parents did that (unfortunately my
mother and one of my brothers probably hold views like your mother).
If someone in my family said that, I would probably get defensive, and
say "what if I was gay or bisexual".  It might get me to tell them
that I might not be 100% straight, something I have yet to say.
	I'm sort of like that.  I don't freely give information, but I
hold my views very strongly (though I try to be open-minded).

-"Archer"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 16:42:40 -0500 
From: "Sherrianne M. Johnson" <sj1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: HI there!


I'm back from break!  The conversations on this bboard are great! 
Everything's great!

I'm sorry for wasting the bandwidth here, but I just got so enthused! 
It's just so great to be back on this bboard, and back...home...
Hopefully I'll think of something cool to post on the thread of Het
males and Bi femmes...

love to all!

sher
sj1s@andrew.cmu.edu
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: On the Making of Crumbs.
Date: 12 Jan 1993 15:33:21 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: citron.sw.stratus.com
Keywords: ex muffin crumbs

In article <hv-3sza@rpi.edu> safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>I am not so sure 'Crumbs' is the best reference to use for 'Ex-Muffins'...
>I mean, am I the only one that thinks of Penfold when someone uses that
>word? :)
>
>Penfold, is that a muffin I see there?
>Crumbs boss!
>Thank you Penfold.
>

What a great image!  Too bad they took Dangermouse off of Nickelodean.
I'm sure I enjoyed it at least as much as my kids did.

Peggy


Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: SILVERI@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Silver Tiger)
Subject: Re: Set the WayBack Machine (Coming Out)
Organization: Queens University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:55:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.171912.12966@icd.teradyne.com>
bryant@icd.teradyne.com (Wayne Bryant) writes:
 
>In article SILVERI@QUCDN.QueensU.CA, SILVERI@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Silver Tiger) writes:
>
>>That's a real conversation stopper, let me tell ya.  You don't get that
>>kind of reaction when you tell them you've lost your job, or you've had
>>a car wreck, this one's a real doozy.
>
>
>Of course, the reason the silence is worse in this case is that most people
>eventually recover from car wrecks and lost jobs.  Fortunately, such 'recovery'
>is not an expected outcome for us.  Party on!
>
>                                        Wayne
 
I just wanted to nod vigorously in agreement with that 'fortunately' up
there. :)
 
Thanks for the post.  Party on Wayne!  *laugh*  I'm sorry, I simply
could NOT resist. :)
 
Bright blessings,
--
|  ..   Ian Silver/Silver Tiger/AgTiger      | Modem:  1-613-542-5110    ..
| .OO.  Email: SILVERI@QUCDN.QueensU.CA      | Landmail: PO BOX 333     .OO.
| O/\O  ____   Fido:  1:249/2 | 69:3005/4    |           Fineview, NY   O/\O
|  --   \/\/   NBCS:  B7ft+g(+)k+(+)s+(+)vmp |           13640-0333      --
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bi-wariness
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:47:00 GMT
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad

In article <1993Jan6.223713.29004@nwnexus.WA.COM> 
	elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>In article <1ieundINNfrl@transfer.stratus.com>
>     pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland) writes:
>
>>What I had a really hard time with was the open, this time, admission
>>from a couple of the women, that they'd never, ever, become involved
>>with a bisexual, the subtext being, as far I could tell, "Even if we
>>were right for each other, I'd never even ask you out because you're
>>bisexual".
>
>   Of course, "to be right for one another" means you two meet some
>mutually satifactory conditions, and for those women one of those
>conditions is that you not be bisexual.  (Gods, that's such a clinical
>look at dating, but honest...  anyway...)
>
I sort-of agree with this -- being "right for one another" does include
seeing eye-to-eye on sexuality, whichever party is forced to back down
(you to drop the bisexual label, or them to give up their insistance).
You're never going to be the right person for someone who can't handle
you being bi, so, as Elf says, forget about it -- they shouldn't be
concerning you that way.  But that strikes me as being a bit trite,
and ignoring the irrationality of human emotions -- trying to argue 
people out of your life when you're already feeling alone isn't exactly
the easiest thing in the world.  Coping with rejection is probably a
more general approach than trying to avoid it.  More painful, maybe,
but sooner or later you'll find acceptance, which will never happen if
you don't look for it.  Not that I follow my own advice (or even
particularly believe in it....)

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitue for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
From: lord+@andrew.cmu.edu (Tom Lord)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Daoism, Pooh, and Bisexuals
Date: 10 Jan 93 18:51:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.wfIDmrq00VpeMk8FMn
	<C0n4x7.8A0@newcastle.ac.uk>
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


    Most people seem to exhibit very polarized attraction to one sex or the
    other. It's interesting to look at this polarization in terms of yin and
    yang, and wonder whether more balance isn't really more psychologically
    healthy.
    

Even if there is `balance', that presumes that there are two things;
what are the two things?

`Homosexual', `heterosexual' and `_bi_sexual' all presume that there
are two, distinct kinds of people and that there is something
significant about how one's attractions are said to align with the
division.  I believe that this is a (mostly harmful) myth.

So when people talk about bisexuality as a balance of opposites, i
have to ask, what are the `opposites' being balanced and why is this
supposed to be significant?

-t
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Friends and Lovers (was Re: treating men as sex toys)
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:36:51 GMT
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad

muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan6.105512.2001@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
>>What do you mean by "emotional partner" (as distinct from a close friend)?
>
>Well, for me, it really isn't that distinct, actually...*smile*.  I
>realized a couple of years ago that the only difference between my close
>friends and my lovers was how much I wanted to have sex with them.
>
It was reasoning along those sort of lines that got me thinking about
being bisexual in the first place.  From a somewhat detached(*) viewpoint,
I thought "What is the difference between a really close friend and a
lover?  The degree of physical involvement, I suppose.  Now, if there is
no requirement for sex in a relationship (And it isn't, with me), and a
close friend can be of either sex, why should there be any distinction
between them?" (Or something like that.)  Blurring boundaries is the
first step in breaking them down....

(*) Having at the time no experience of lovers, or, really, close friends.

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitue for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Anyone read Sandman?
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:36:26 GMT

In article <30032@castle.ed.ac.uk> moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:
>I should have guessed a sandman reference would pop up here eventually. 
>I don't know anyone in Edinburgh who _doesn't_ read it.  Or anyone who
>doesn't wish that Death really looked like that...  What a way to go...

And don't forget Desire! Most of my major fascinations bundled into
one. "There is much that is knife-like about Desire..."
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: soc.bi