HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com (Rich Kolker)
Subject: Re: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Organization: South Coast Computing Services, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:09:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.194328.5873@ryn.mro4.dec.com> anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson) writes:
>
>What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that after the 'Boskone from
>Hell' the only alternative to cutting the size of the convention from about
>4500 to about 1500 was to not hold the convention at all!  After the Sheraton
>decided that they didn't want our business an extensive search for a new hotel
>
   [stuf deleted you should have read earlier]
>	Dave (anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com)
>

I think there's a bit of rose colored glasses viewing going on here.  I
attended the last big Boskone, including the sessions held discussing
the changes planned for the following year.  There is no question that
Boskone had gotten to the point that something needed to change.  However,
the way that was gone about left very much to be desired.  The attitude
of the organizers IMHO as represented at the session to discuss the
ti
pic was adversarial to say the least.  It came across as: we've been looking
for an excuse to throw all you Trekkies out of here, and now we've
found it!  It was a narrow view of SF fandom that was not worthy of the
committee of one of the major East Coast conventions.  It smacked of,
"It's my ball, and if you don't play my way, you can go home."

I came to fandom through the written word, although I attended (and ran)
more than my share of Star Trek conventions along the way.  I haven't
attended a Boskone since, and yes, I could have, I was invited.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
   rich kolker       rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com
                         < Do Not Write In This Space> 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: kt1@herahera.cc.bellcore.com (tellefsen,karen a)
Subject: New Jersey Science Fiction Society
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:07:14 GMT


The New Jersey Science Fiction Society (NJSFS) is a group of
shy, quiet people who like to read. It is a non-profit, literary
organization registered in the state of New Jersey. SMOFs, while 
not excluded, are not encouraged. NJSFS generally meets the third
Saturday of the month at the Belleville Masonic Temple, and features 
writers, artists, editors and other pros in the field.  Its newsletter, 
THE INTERGALACTIC REPORTER, is published monthly, and is available 
with membership or by subscription at $12.00 per year.  Memberships 
can be had at $4.00 per meeting, or $40 per year (11 meetings).

For more information, call:

Nancy Denker    201-507-5685

or write to: 

NJSFS
PO Box 65
Paramus NJ 07653-0065
  
or send e-mail to:

Karen Tellefsen  kt1@cc.bellcore.com
From: mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Art Shows (was Re: Hello Confrancisco?)
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:13:46 GMT
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

Several things bunched together ...

jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

> I never said it could not be done. But it is a challenge, and
> adds more work to an already overworked Art Show staff.

> Of course we've figured them out.  I could, for example, take
> a day off work and have everything delivered to me.  But I
> have limited vacation time, and would rather NOT take time off
> work to do this.   To get things to the con, we could have
> the truck stop by my house on the way.  But Logistics already has
> lots of work to do precon. Adding a long side trip to their
> work is not a good thing.

> Again, you miss the point.  Of course I can plan to make two 
> or three trips instead of one.  But that's a lot of extra work.
> There is already lots to do in the day or two before the convention
> and the day or two after: why add more to it?

> Why?  In any case, that doesn't solve the problem that mail-in
> art, if costs were apportioned correctly, is a lot more
> expensive for us to handle than art the artists bring
> in themselves.

> > Hmmm ... if that's how you run art shows, no wonder you think of  
> > them as nightmares. Maybe you should take a break and let someonw
> > else run it for a while?
> 
> I'm not sure what you are refering to there.

I can best sum up by saying: If it's so much work, why do you do it? If
you don't enjoy it, maybe you should work on some other aspect of the
convention for a bit.

> To the best of my knowledge, the Art Shows that have employed
> this method (most of the East Coast regionals, Noreascon,
> Magicon, the Austin Nasfic) have not lost any art work this way.
[[Having in-show sales and a guard to check receipts at the door.]]

The only con that I know of that lost a piece of art was TorCon II, and
they had a rent-a-cop security guard at the door. Someone had a Kelley
Freas piece of art with a $15 tag and a receipt for $15. The guard let it
pass. He didn't know that Freas original oils don't sell for $15.

        Michael

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@lunacity.com

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: ADRESS Joanna Russ
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:29:46 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Actually, Joanna Russ doesn't really _have_ a "current publisher", is my
impression, but I bet you can get mail to her in care of the English
department at the University of Washington.

Joanna Russ deserves all the fan mail in the world, and I wish she'd write
more SF.

-----
Patrick Nielsen Hayden * pnh@panix.com * CIS: 72701,1344 * GEnie: PNH

From: David.Dyer-bennet@f341.n409.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: 10-fan Quorum And Like That
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 10:36:49 -0600

 BF> As far as I can tell, movie (film) rental doesn't involve the
 BF> same sort of issue -- it is assumed when you rent a 16 mm film
 BF> that you're going to be showing it to a group.

It involves the same *issue* -- but it comes pre-solved.  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: rnakkula@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robin J Nakkula)
Subject: Re: ADRESS Joanna Russ
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:22:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.181440.7081@fy.chalmers.se> support@fy.chalmers.se (F-sektionens Entusiaster) writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>          Does anyone know the adress for fan-mail to Joanna Russ?
> 
>                                                -Kristina M. Knaving




Someone whose library is more in order than mine can look up the publisher
of Joanna's books.  Send first correspondence through the publisher; that
way the author can safely decide how to respond.


@@@---Robin N.



@@@---Robin N.
From: coon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Arisia-can I pay at door?
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:59:48 GMT
Reply-To: coon@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

Yes, indeed, a member of the Concom reads this group.  You CAN pay at the 
door, we don't expect it to be sold out (though one never knows...)  
Better yet, at least for the Concom, send your $40 membership to:
ARISIA Inc
1 Kendall Sq
Cambridge MA  02139

That way you'll be pre-reged and be sure to get in.  If however, you don't
want to send your money early, just arrive at the Park Plaza in Boston on 
January 15, 16 or 17!  

Heather Coon
Head of Programming 
ARISIA 93
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:05:27 GMT

You have to admit it's a different world these days.  I see little point
in a video room that runs Star Wars or the Back to the Future videos, or
for that matter anything that you can get in a typical video store.

In the pre-video days, a con video room was the only place you were likely
to be introduced to most of the old SF video.   Those days are gone.

Today, if there is to be a video room, it should concentrate on the
obscure -- what is not found in video houses.  If it weren't for the
unusual fact that The Wizard of Speed and Time is available on video,
it would be an ideal candidate.

Other things, including shorts like hardware wars and bambi meets godzilla
and so on, would be appropriate.

That probably means a much shorter program.  Is this a bad thing?  Do
we need a 24 hour viewing room?
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 02:49:24 GMT

I have no idea why such productions are delayed several years into
foreign markets, and if somebody knows for sure, let them speak.

However, to delve into speculation, I would suspect it's basic risk
avoidance.  Why show a new show when it comes out when you can wait
a while, see what a success it is, and then make a risk-free decision to
buy it for an audience with almost no exposure to it?   It may even be
the case that you pay lower rates to get it later, too.

I suppose the cost of satellite time also figures into it.  Satellite
time to Australia is costly so you would have to either pay the high
double-satellite price, or more likely ship the tapes by plane and
redup them or do another satellite feed down there.

Since there is very little reason not to wait a year or more, I expect
they just do it.

This is off the topic of whether it's ok to show these things at cons.
Once again the standard rationalization we see in almost all such
violations comes forward.  "Come on now, I'm not hurting them."
(Or better still, "Hey, I'm giving them free publicity.")
Copyright law has a remarkably simple system to deal with this question,
which is you ask the copyright owners for permission.   They get to
decide.  Yet somehow few of the "come on now, I'm not hurting them"
crowd take the time to ask.  Sometimes they're right, and the copyright
holder gives permission.

On the other hand, if it's a public showing at a con you have to pay money
to enter, they have every right to expect and demand a piece of the
money.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Interaction (WorldCon 95)
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:49:12 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

I'm trying to find out when exactly I should expect to first hear from
Interaction. I voted in the site selection, but when I sent in my ballot
I had two problems:

1) I did not know my Magicon membership number, so could not put it on
the ballot.
2) I wrote a different address on the ballot than the one I had been
using for Magicon.

If there's actually anyone out there who can check and reassure me that 
I am in fact a member, I would very much appreciate it.

-- 
Michael A. Burstein
Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 14:01:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan03.021241.12466@clarinet.com>, brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
|> In article <1i53j0INN33g@werple.apana.org.au> kat@werple.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) writes:
|> >For example, Australia is about 3 years behind in the showing of Star Trek
|> >the Next Generation - so the latest episodes of the series are a good
|> >thing for a video room over here
|> 
|> And almost certainly ilicit showings, since they take away from the
|> audience for the legit showings with Australian advertisers.
 
 Brad, you weenie, the economy of Australia is not going to collapse, nor
is Paramount going to go broke, if a few fans watch Star Trek tapes at cons.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: jim@visix.com (Jim Edwards-Hewitt)
Subject: Re: Interactive Literature Foundation
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:05:24 GMT
Reply-To: jim@visix.com
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA


>Could anyone tell me how to get in touch, by e- or snail-mail, with
>the Interactive Literature Foundation? 

You can contact the ILF via email to me at:

jim@visix.com

or by snail-mail at:

Interactive Literature Foundation
P.O. Box 196
Merrifield, VA  22116-0196

	-- Jim

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Edwards-Hewitt               jim@visix.com | Life is a game where 
President, Interactive Literature Foundation   | you play yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Boskone is evil(was Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confranc
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:32:52 GMT
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:

> > None of this is "evil". 
> 
> We should keep in mind that Boskone *is* evil.  QX!

Thank you Bill ... You're right of course.

        8-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@lunacity.com

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!
From: mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: 10-Fan Quorum and like that
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:43:44 GMT
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

lamont@sp1.cup.hp.com (LaMont Jones) writes:

> : The studios take this stuff seriously, kiddies, and one day some concom is
> : going to find itself with one _whopping_ lawsuit on its furry little paws.
> 
> Of course, if you approach the studios correctly, they will frequently give
> permission.  This is what Silicon 92 did, and Anime America is doing.

AND what BayCon '92 tried to do and couldn't.

        8-(

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@lunacity.com

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Date: 31 Dec 1992 15:00:11 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec30.002935.17055@radian.uucp>  
markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
> I suppose you could say innocent. "Intentionally dropped"? I  
suppose. I *saw*
> the letter, where they picked 750 people, who had attended x  
previous Boskones,
> and invited them. Everyone else was not included. Yeah, 750 is sure  
less than
> 2,000. 

The number of flyers we sent out that year was closer around
2000, which was down from the 4,000 plus we sent out the previous
year. 

Boskone *could* have a) NOT ADVERTISED in some media (I used to  
argue,
> every year in Philly, to *not* advertise in any but print media,  
and *not*
> in record stores, etc.) Then there's the "bigger is better"  
mentality of
> the SMOFS running the cons nowadays, resulting in many cons being  
locked
> into one hotel (Philly being another good example).

I'm not sure that this is a SMOF attitude (unless you are
using the term very differently than I do).  Most of the folks
I know who I'd call SMOFs don't think bigger is better.

> I'd say the battle is between SMOF-run cons, who want to big, and  
yet ex-
> clusive, tending to prefer print to any other media, and those who  
want to 
> remain like the cons used to be.
> 

Define "used to be."  I'd argue that cons that tend to prefer
print media ARE like cons "used to be."  But then, I define
"used to be" based on 1975.  Most people tend to define "used
to be" based on what it was like when they first started
going to conventions.


--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com (Rich Kolker)
Subject: Re: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Organization: South Coast Computing Services, Inc.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:50:45 GMT

In article <9212311816.AA20997@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> dee@ranger.enet.dec.com ("Donald E. Eastlake 3rd, LJO2/I4, 1-508-486-2358  31-Dec-1992 1315") writes:
>>From: rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com (Rich Kolker)
>>I think there's a bit of rose colored glasses viewing going on here.  I
>>attended the last big Boskone, including the sessions held discussing
>>the changes planned for the following year.  There is no question that
>>Boskone had gotten to the point that something needed to change.  However,
>>the way that was gone about left very much to be desired.  The attitude
>>of the organizers IMHO as represented at the session to discuss the
>>topic was adversarial to say the least.
>
>To be fair, you should note that the attitudes of a few of the attendees was
>at least as adversarial.  There were people explicitly and vocally demanding 
>the NESFA sponsor and put in the work to run a convention for them the way they 
>wanted it regardless of what the members of NESFA wanted.
>
Fair enough.  It was very vocal on both sides. As a matter of fact,
I remember getting very vocal about it at the meeting.  Of course, I
was getting very little sleep, and was close to the height of my
"for the good of fandom" phase.

I vaguely remember arguing this with you here back then.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
   rich kolker       rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com
                         < Do Not Write In This Space> 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kat@werple.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Date: 3 Jan 1993 09:05:20 +1100
Organization: werple public-access unix, Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au

brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

>You have to admit it's a different world these days.  I see little point
>in a video room that runs Star Wars or the Back to the Future videos, or
>for that matter anything that you can get in a typical video store.
I agree that with the large number of people who have video recorders
(or know people who do) that a video room should concentrate on the
obscure - but the "obscure" can vary greatly.

>In the pre-video days, a con video room was the only place you were likely
>to be introduced to most of the old SF video.   Those days are gone.

I'm not so sure that "those days are gone", unless I misunderstand what
yoy mean by "the old SF video".   There are different ways that a video may
be obscure:
(a) it may be too old
Rare old episodes (usually B/W) of things like Doctor Who or The Avengers
fall into this category
(b) it may be too new
For example, Australia is about 3 years behind in the showing of Star Trek
the Next Generation - so the latest episodes of the series are a good
thing for a video room over here
(c) it may be foriegn and unshown locally
- Blake's 7 was first shown at conventions in the States before it was ever
shown on TV there
- Two British SF shows ("Star Cops" & "Sapphire & Steel") have never been
shown in Australia (and probably never will); I first saw them at
conventions.
(BTW, I don't suppose anyone out there can tell me what '1990' was like?
It starred Edward Woodward, another good British SF, I gather)
- Japanese Anime is another obvious example.

Now, it may well be that there is less of this now than in the past,
but I don't think the video room is dying!

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Space, `the final frontier,' as it was once called." 
		-- broadcast announcer	(Blake's 7: Death Watch [C12])
-- 
 _--_|\		Kathryn Andersen	<kat@werple.apana.org.au>
/      \	Hawthorn -> Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia
\_.--.*/	-> Southern Hemisphere -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy
      v			-- My other account is an Apollo --
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: exile@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Heresiarch)
Subject: Re: Arisia-can I pay at door?
Reply-To: exile@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Organization: The Torch of Chaos and Doubt
	<1992Dec21.185948.1787@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
	<EXILE.92Dec24092543@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:18:04 GMT

In article <EXILE.92Dec24092543@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu> exile@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Heresiarch) writes:
   basis of this projection:  i ran registration this year.  

last year.  i meant last year.  never post before breakfast.
--
<SIG>___________________________________________________________________
It's an old wall, Avon.  It waits.  I just hope you reach it
before you die.                                                    </SIG>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Arisia-can I pay at door?
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:51:39 GMT

Is Arisia sold out yet?  Will it be the first day of the con?  I was planning
to buy my membership at the con (which is what I do at most cons) but I
didn't realize there was a limit.  Is anyone on the Concom on this list
to give me this info?
As always,
Your obedient servant,
Gabrielle de Lioncourt
ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: kasprj@jec310.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Interactive Literature Foundation
Keywords: 
 
 Could anyone tell me how to get in touch, by e- or snail-mail, with
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:07:46 GMT

the Interactive Literature Foundation? They organized the "Seventh 
Circle of Hell" party at last year's Disclave, and I'd like to get 
some info from them about what they've got planned for this year.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Sam Adams,Spaten# Life is too short #Hudson Lager,Beck's 
     \_| Pilsener Urquell#to drink cheap beer#Pete's Wicked Ale
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom,misc.wanted,rec.travel.marketplace,alt.sex.bondage
From: carl@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Carl Devore)
Subject: Wanted: ride to Arisia (Boston) Jan 15.
Followup-To: 35011_2644@uwovax.uwo.ca
Keywords: London Ontario Canada, Boston, science fiction convention, Arisia
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:32:22 GMT

A friend of mine, Kim, would like a ride from London, Ontario to Arisia -- a
science fiction and fantasy convention in Boston -- on January 15.  If you are
driving from Detroit or Chicago, this would be right on your way. 

Kim is a doctoral student in library and information science doing research
on science fiction and fantasy readers.  Her interests include bondage,
bodyart, and costuming.  Her baggage is light.  She can provide good
conversation.  She can share the driving expenses.

Kim can't come unless she can get a ride!