From: U56503@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: This Khare thread
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:17:42 GMT
 <ogorman.721323887@unix1.tcd.ie> <92314.221216U56503@uicvm.uic.edu>
 <1992Nov10.130632.2350@udel.edu> <1689BA93A.EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1689BA93A.EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu says:

>Seeeeemmms to moi, that what happened is Lucifuge cited Khare as an example
>of someone who 'gets happy' (glad for ya, dude) and for that reason doesn't
>post, and asked aloud if Khare was even still lurking.  Khare posted back.
>Brady advised Khare to high-tail it outta here, lest the cynics destroy
>his happiness. *Somewhere* along the line Brady expressed the sentiment that
>he felt Khare was being pressured to keep company with us, and for the reason
>cited above thinks that a bad idea...he also realizes that that may have been
>a misinterpretation on his part (i.e., that Khare was not being pressured).

I agree with this asessment of the situation.

>From my own view, i don't see how what Lucifuge said could be considered
>an example of coercing Khare to do anything.  This thread has now transformed

I was not referring to Lucifuge's comments.  I was referring to some
longstanding members of the group who seem to like/need people to wallow in
depression.  I was referring to a general mood of some not to anyone in
particular.

>into a lot of growling about how [insert name of choice] is out for control
>over others.  Fine.  Musings about Lucifuge controlling others, or Brady
>controlling others, or cynics controlling Khare are grist for the mill here.

Yes, I agree.

>I have something extra to throw between the mill stones, which might
>elucidate this (at least for me):

Go for it Euclid.

>  I'm not sure how to put it though, because it is not my intention to start
>a shouting match, so, well....i'll put it this way:

I won't start one anyway.

>     Brady, if you think a.s.h. is a poor influence on people, what are

I do not think a.s.h. is a poor influence at all.  I think it is a
viable and important outlet for some posters and lurkers.  I do feel
that certain desires of certain individuals tend toward bringing happy
or encouraged people back into a circle of despair for their own
purposes or for the vicarious enjoyment of shared gloom.

Having read a.s.h. for quite a while now, I was concerned that Khare
would feel pressured into re-engaging with feeling that downward spiral of
despair to keep his friends on a.s.h.  I wanted him to be free to be
happy and not feel an obligation to get back into negativistic
thinking because others here are still into it bigtime.

That's all it was.

>     *you* doing here?  What is a.s.h. in your eyes, and how does that

What am I doing here?  I am not always here.  When I am it is to
break the cycle of negativism by interjecting a different alternative
view.  Some may not like that.  Others detest it.  But I also get e-mail
thanking me for providing an alternative view and some hope. I just want to
suggest alternatives for consideration.  I have hope that the cycle of
negative thinking can be changed and therefore people can be happier.
I do this in my professional work and on the hotline.  I know it can be
done.  Khare is the best example of it I know of on a.s.h. and I
applaud him.  I wonder if others are envious that he has worked to be happy
and they are still wallowing in despair, and have not yet reached the
point of choosing to change.

As I have stated in previous posts, many people are so wedded to
that familiar negative identity they cannot change and become
threatened by my alternative views and thus attack me.  This is
predictable and does not impress me.  Working to change impresses me.

I am here to point out from time to time that negative thinking and
identities are a *choice* and people must take responsibility for
choosing to be this way.  It is not a force imposed from a distant star.
It is within the negative thinker.  It can be changed, but that requires
work and pain of course.

>     differ from what you'd like it to be?

I would like the group to be open more to alternative views and not
assume that a.s.h's only purpose is to perpetuate doom, and that
anyone not spouting the Doom View should be immediately stoned or
flamed.  I believe flames come from being threatened and from
wanting to control the threat.  That's it.  Thanks for the questions.

Brady

>euclid

=-=-=-=-Brady Woodward PhD=-=U56503@UICVM=-=u56503@uicvm.uic.edu=-=-=-=-=
  SATAN to NEW-COMER: The trouble with you Chicago people is that you
  think that you are the best people down here, whereas you are merely
  the most mumerous. --Mark Twain  (All other thoughts are mine alone.)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=