HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: The flue of "porno.dcs.glasgow.ac.uk" crooks.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:51:52 GMT

In article <Bu24AJ.JM8@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:

>Why would you want to fax the Turkish Embassy?

October 29 is around the corner, "morning the crook".


Source: Hassan Arfa, "The Kurds," (London, 1968), pp. 25-26.

 "When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster 
  of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular 
  Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of 
  these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer.
  These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more
  than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in 
  the eastern vilayets of Turkey."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19858 talk.politics.soviet:7847 soc.culture.greek:8753 soc.culture.europe:8308 soc.history:8193 soc.culture.jewish:15744
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: He Who Saves a Single Soul...
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 02:22:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.053446.1003@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>
>In article 8660@bony1.bony.com, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>In article <bdm.714575071@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>>>horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>
>>>>The Jewish state, "Palestine" to the British, has *always* existed
>>>>during the last 3O00+ years -- the "Modern" State of Israel is just
>>>>that -- modern -- but it is not "new". 
>>>
>>>This is not fact, it's just (recent) religious dogma.  Since that
>>>makes it immune to argument, I won't try.
>>
>>There were Jewish Kings in Israel who wrote and spoke Hebrew many
>>centuries before anyone spoke any form of Arabic. 
>
>What does this have to do with it?  The point of argument was the "*always*".

It shows that the Modern State of Israel is a continuation of an
old and documented Jewish State.  It is odd that you, an amateur
historian, regard this as "(recent) religious dogma". 

>>                                                    If you wouldn't
>>have such a fetish with Palestine in the middle of this century, you'd
>>realize that history comprises other centuries, as well.  
>>
>>As for "recent" religious dogma, Jewish Kings in Israel are documented
>>in a book called the Bible, though it appears that your library may
>>not have a copy.
>
>I didn't realise the Bible was written recently.  I apologise for
>my ignorance.

Seeing as it was you who described Biblical description of the ancient
Jewish State as "(recent) religious dogma", your apology to the net is
appropriate. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,soc.rights.human,alt.discrimination
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Islamic Fundamentalism in Egypt Targets Christians as it Did Jews
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 00:00:10 GMT

In article <Bu0opC.FAM@acsu.buffalo.edu> acsormd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Randall Desmond) writes:

[long and self-negating posting largely deleted...]

>	If this is true, they aren't "fundamentalist". A Muslim
>	is taught to respect property rights, and the views of others.

Surprise!

>	There is a concept in Islam called "fear of Allah". Muslims
>	can not do what you said and claim they are acting according 
>	to Islam. Do you really think anyone would want to embrace such 
>	a faith as you describe? I wouldn't. Yet, I'm a Muslim. In fact
>	I became one last year. This guy is wrong to the core.

Feel free to direct your views to the editors of the NY Times.  

>	Jake ...I got your name... I'm watching... I'm a fundy... ;)
>	Are you so scared of other cultures, races and religions that
>	you have to create strife below to stay on top?

I have no need to.  Arabs and Muslims have demonstrated remarkable
ability in creating internal strife all on their own, unaided by evil
infidels.  

>	I hate your post, Jake. Maybe I'll highjack the next plane your
>	on...;) COME ON! DO SOME REAL RESEARCH, AND QUICK GIVING GOOD
>	PEOPLE BAD RAPS!!
>
>	Peace to all who believe in the Day of Judgement,
>
>	Ismail

And to those who do not accept your beliefs, it's "Itbach al Yahud!"
(Slaughter the Jews!) and "Allahu Akbar!" (God is great!).

You have abandoned your Christian beliefs (or lack thereof) for Muslim
beliefs and it is not apparent that you are much better off for it.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: A naive question about the law of return
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 01:23:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.133652.6738@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:

>This actually makes societal sense, because most of the funding
>for the special status under the Law of Return comes not from
>Israeli Government general funds, but from Jewish welfare
>organizations around the world.  Contributions here to Operation
>Exodus go to resettlements of refugees under the LOR.  Why should
>Jewish diaspora money go to help people who have chosen to join
>another people?  Conversely why should Moslem and Christian
>Israelis tax money go to resettle Jews?

I have heard just recently that Israel is to accept a number of 
Christian Ethiopians as Olim.  It would appear that such contributions
are in fact going to people who have either converted away from
Judaism or never were Jewish to begin with.  Corrections gladly
accepted. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef)
Subject: Re: Syrian Beats Jordan in Final
Keywords: Basketball
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 04:27:39 GMT

In <14SEP199222054712@vms.huji.ac.il> rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:

>Final score in Damascus Basketball final game,

>Syria 78, Jordan 74.  The game was quite exciting,
>although hardly of high quality.  It was covered
>by both Syrian and Jordanese TV.

Could someone post here and arabic group or e-mail me more info about the
game and about the arab games.

Thanks.

_Osama
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Hi There!!
Date: 10 Sep 1992 20:18:53 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <3752@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <Bu6H6w.A8z@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>>
>Hi Nevo ....
>
>>	I for one kept my promise not to post till the end of [last]
>>month - we can't say that for every posters here on TPM [does the name
>>Jack rings a bell? :)].
>
>You mean ... Jake? 

No, Jack ...  as in ARF.

>
>>	On my way in [before I cancled some 70 articles] I saw that my
>>dearest friend Anisa still tries to force religion on Zionism - Anisa,
>>you are wrong - the bible is used merly as a history book - that's
>>all.
>
>Hmmm... if I am your "dearest friend", why do you publically flame
>me? 

Where is it written "thou shall not flame thy friend" ?
[did i get the onld inglizi spelling right?]

		-me
-- 
Nevo Y. Hed ............. nyh@wpi.wpi.edu .....................................
++1-508-754-2491 ........ CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute .........
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx .
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:47:33 GMT


In article 29800@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
>	Fortunately for you, one can be a good bigot without having to
>resort to outright lies when a simple distortion will do.  At any
>rate, you might be surprised at my opinions of Lehi.  Ever wonder why
>I do not defend Shamir as strongly as I do Begin (although Begin does
>not need any defense)?

No, it is quite clear.  You find the Lehi distasteful in many respects
but you still feel you must defend them against people like me.  The
fact that you really disapprove of some of their actions (such as the
Nazi contacts) makes your self-appointed task quite unpleasant.  
I don't envy you.

>	Much behavior of Lehi may have been racist (I am not conceding
>anything here, only noting the possibility), however, you have no
>proof of anything racist here, and you have even less then zero proof
>for your "JUSTIFIED" conclusion of anti-semitism.

Since I never made that conclusion but stated the opposite several
times, I think you are going too far.   I could respond in kind, but
I'll resist.  Want to drop the topic?

>David Makowsky

Brendan.




Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: JUSTICE/EQUALITY IN OCCUPIED PALESTINE (AFTER ETHIOPIA) 
Organization: LC
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:59:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.024629.25516@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.081411.2405344@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>
># There is DISCRIMINATION in the government of the jewish nation.European Jews 
># are first class citizens,  Palestinian Jews 2nd, Yemenese Jews 3rd, black
>	The "problem" with the Ethiopian Jews has to do with Jewish law,
>	The Israeli people have welcomed them with open arms, and continue
>to do so.

But the following UPI report negates your words, tell me why?    -jle

	JERUSALEM (UPI)  ...
	But younger members of the tightly-knit community of 40,000 Jews
airlifted from Ethiopia over the last decade said the dispute over their
kessim was only the most humiliating part of the growing bitterness they
feel over their reception in Israel.  ...

	``The most pressing problem for the Ethiopian community in Israel,
more so than those problems of housing and unemployment, is the deep
insult to us as Jews,'' Jobza Etzinpa, head of the Movement of Ethiopian
Jews in Israel, said in a letter to the Chief Rabbinate.  ...

	``Instead of actively integrating and connecting our community to the
nation of Israel, the discriminating policies of different governmental
ministries have contributed to the separation and tearing of this
community from the societal fabric of Israel.''



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: A naive question about the law of return
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:17:48 GMT

In article <25703@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>If my ancestors converted to Judaism, does this give me the right to
>emigrate to Israel? Is this logical? Why (not)?

Unless I'm mistaken, the law of return does allow for patrilineal
descent, unlike strict Halacha; further, I belive it can go back as far
as two generations, e.g. to your grandparents but not further.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Israel and Kuwait in the Spotlight
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:23:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.090154.13381@discus.technion.ac.il>,
davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:

|>In article <EGGERTJ.92Sep10221531@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
|>writes:
|>>In article <1992Sep10.183041.26418@discus.technion.ac.il>
|>davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:

|>>On the other hand, it _is_ illegal in Israel to form a political party
|>>which has a plank to remove the Zionist nature of the government.
|>>This would be possible by simple constitutional amendment, I believe.
|>>
|>
|>The Zionist (the precise term is Jewish) nature of the country is the
|>raison d'etre of Israel even before Democracy. Denying it is same as
|>denying the existence of Israel - this is of course forbidden.

That is precisely the point at issue. In a democracy where everyone is equal
there can be no laws supporting cultural hegemony. All this "we are a democracy
BUT..." business just doesen't wash. You can fool yourself about it but you
won't fool anyone else.

In fact it is of course perfectly practicable to set up a party with such an
aim. Merely make it a stated aim of the party to institute a written
constitution, to be agreed at a constitutional convention and deliberately leave
vague the question of special treatment.

Alternatively it would be perfectly legal to set up a party which wanted to
remove the law making parties wanting to change the Zionist nature of the
state.

Even if these positions were blocked it would be perfectly legal to form a party
which called for an annual vote *IN FAVOUR* of the maintenance of the special
nature of Israel as a Zionist state. Of course were such a vote to fail then it
would be equivalent to a vote in the opposite direction.

At the end of the day anyone who thinks that constitutional trickery is going to
be much of a safeguard is quite wrong. Constitutions are only effective if they
have the poltical support of the establishment and people. If the US people
stopped believing that their constitution was the greatest thing since sliced
bread the executive would effectively abolish it in short order.

|>>Jews get to advocate Jewish hegemony in Israel.
|>>Arabs don't even get to advocate the breakdown of Jewish hegemony in
|>>Israel.  They certainly don't get to advocate Arab hegemony in Israel.
|>>
|>>You call that full rights?
|>
|>Arab hegemony in Isarel == Jews in the sea. (or at least those who came
|>afetr 1917 - according to the pitiful Arafat).
|>
|>Jews prefer their lives over theoretical equality!
|>
|>This is not the Arab's right to kill the Jew, as it is not the Jew's 
|>to kill the Arab.

Introducing such histrionics into the debate hardly constitutes an argument. 

Claiming that all Arabs want to kill all Jews is pretty much tantamount to
racism.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:52:12 GMT

In article 18od2jINNquh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
>In a previous article, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) says:
>
>>
>>>Even though the arabs were a majority, there was no indication of permanancy.
>>>I may reside in  Illinois, but since I have not shown a tendency toward 
>>>permanancy, I am not considered a resident.  The Moselms never established
>>>any provincial centers, Islamic schools, or any significant institutions in
>>>Palestine.  They were there only by convinience, the convinience being that
>>>massive Jewish immigration provided job oppurtunities in a financially
>>>depressed area.
>>
>>Hogswill.  All this sort of crap has been pushed here before, but nobody
>>ever provided evidence.  Can you?  
>
>Take a look at "From Time Immemorial."

Haha.  Are you kidding?  

Yehoshua Porath of Hebrew University, an authority on the Arabs
of Palestine and the author of two books on the subject:

   "I think it's a sheer forgery.  In Israel, at least, the book
    was almost universally dismissed as sheer rubbish except
    maybe as a propaganga weapon."

Rabbi Arthur Hertzberg, professor of religion at Dartmouth
College and vice-president of the World Jewish Congress:

   "I think that she's cooked the statistics.  I think the right-
    wingers in Israel have an interest in cooking the statistics.
    The scholarship is phony and tendentious.  I do not believe
    that she has read the Arabic sources that she quotes."

[From "Dispute Flares Over Book On Claims to Palestine" by Colin Campbell, 
 New York Times, Nov 28, 1985, page C-13]

I posted a detailed trashing of FTI long ago.  The book is complete shit.

>bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu

Brendan.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: oueichek@imag.fr (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Prisoners or Hostages?
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:02:20 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France

In article <1992Sep10.025933.12753@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
|> horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
|> #hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
|> 
|> [Deleted]
|> 
|> #You piece of trash...
|> 
|> [Deleted]
|> 
|> #Criminals stay criminals (and like you, assholes remain assholes)
|> 
|> [Deleted]
|> 
|> Is it just my imagination, or isn't TPM that haven of friendship,
|> tolerance, and brotherly love it used to be?

   Well, i think it's just an effort to fill the gap left by M*T*U et al.
But i doubt ANYONE could match the original, true, unique Master of revisionism.

|> 
|> -Danny Keren.

-- 
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: Elghani flames again (JUSTICE/EQUALITY IN...)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:06:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.064030.2503040@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <1992Sep13.230113.16106@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Sep12.081411.2405344@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>>
>>>Black Jews migrate to Occupied Palestine (Israel) 
>>>targeting equality paradise;  unaware that the government there uses them
>>>to absorb billions of *OUR* AMERICAN MONEY. 
>>
>>Our money, John?  You're lebanese, remember?
>
>You are off.  Yes *OUR* AMERICAN MONEY.  I am a US CITIZEN FYI.  I pay
>tax probably a lot more than you do, and contribute to AMERICA'S unity
>a lot more than you do.  My interest in AMERICA is not only associated with
>the saftey of israel like some.  ALSO, FYI, the US and Lebanon do alow dual
>citizenships. So, I am an American by heart/practice and Lebanese 
>via parents.
>
>I hope you don't have a problem with that.  I don't FLAME UP if the US
>doesn't give $10 BILLION in loan guarantees to Lebanon, nor
>five billions either.  You and many israel-lovers do.  If BUSH doesn't
>give moeny to israel, the lobby moves in to arm twist OUR president.
>Yes I do care for my country America, and it is MY MONEY THAT IS 
>KILLING INNOCENTS IN THE WEST BANK, so you should be thankfull.
>
>Question:  Are you American, Israeli, or Jewish?  Try and answer that
>if you wished to make the above comment about me.

	The implication here is that one cannot be American and Jewish.
I find this rather offensive.  Of course, it could be that your English
is poor, which is not an outrageous possibility.

Manu

>
>jle
>


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: Yes, They All Remember Cyprus.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:42:51 GMT

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:


>In article <Bu2GrB.GsE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) write:

>>I do not know all the facts about the ethnic fights between Greek and Turkish
>>Cypriots between 1958-1974.  All I listen to is the Greek version of the events
>>which I do not claim to be the most objective.  But I think you too, Besime,
>>only listened to the Turkish version, which I do not think is objective either.

>I stand in my own door in my own silence, smiling at your grace.

> Peter Moorhead reporting from the village of Skyloura, Cyprus. 
> Date : 1 January, 1964. 

[Text describing Greek attrocities against Turkish Cypriots deleted.]

As I claim above I am not familiar with the attrocities from both sides between
1958-1974.  I am sure that attrocities were committed by both sides.  You
chose to delete one of the subsequent sentences in my text where I stated
(with capital letters) that I CONDEMN THESE ATTROCITIES.
Here I could add attrocities commited by Turks/Turkish Cypriots during the
same period and even up to date.  I am sure that your descriptions would
faint in front of my descriptions.  However, I don't see how these would
help to solve our differences.
As a last note, I want to point out the spirit of your posting compared to
mine.  I tried to promote cooperation.  You tried to emphasize division.
And since you couldn't find anything to pick on in my post, you added your
own venom.

>Serdar Argic

>                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
>                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
>                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
>                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
>                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Who are the Occupiers?
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:42:02 GMT


In article 202743@uctvax.uct.ac.za, naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za () writes:
>In article <1992Sep7.022344.27498@cs.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> 
>> I see, the Massive Recent Immigration myth.  It has been debunked so
>> many times that it must take some courage to still believe it
>
>It is not a myth but is supported by British population and immigration
>records. Although people have tried to debunk it they have only used
>fraudulent claims.

Easy to say, but hard to prove.  I have thousands of pages of British
population records.  Perhaps you can tell me where to look for the
"support" you mention.  It will have to be good, because the records
themselves come to the opposite conclusion.

>Colin 
In article 202743@uctvax.uct.ac.za, naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za () writes:

Brendan.