HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Colombus Legacy=500 Years of Racism & Stolen Land <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!ucs.indiana.edu!DSOTO>
Subject: RE: inclusion, exclusion
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:17:41 GMT

Original-Sender: Colombus Legacy=500 Years of Racism & Stolen Land <ucs.indiana.edu!DSOTO>

	In 1992 in the month of April in Ecuador Indigenous people march
walking to the Capitol of the country, they walk 2,700 Kilometers to go
and demand part of their land back from the goverment, they came with poison
arrows, and took over the Congress, and  a complete province was given back
to Indians, and for the first time in Ecuador the Indians control a vast
region in the Amazons, they elect who should govern and they make the Oil
companies move out of their nation, today here in Bloomington we have an
student that was part of that  historical march, Sergio in October 12 will
give an speech in Quechua (His mother lenguage) with a translator, we
are glad he is here, and soon he be learning English.
	We have something to Celebrate, we are going to be together 67 Natives
from the USA, Natives from Guatemala, Nicaragua, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil and
Costa Rica together like a big nation, unified by a very important part of any
native Mother Earth, in October 12 we will march from downtown Bloomington to
Campus, to let everyone know that We are alive!

Daniel Soto

P.S. once again I appologize for my English, but I have to tell you.

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: NEWS: Harshest Salmon Laws Yet (But Sharks Doing Better?)
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:16:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.210915.8907@oracle.us.oracle.com> rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes:
>>Harshest Salmon Rules Yet
>>
>>by Tim McKay
>>
>>On the heels of no commercial salmon season off the Humboldt
>>coast, and the shortest ocean salmon season ever, rules imposed
>>on in-stream fishing on the Klamath River will be the toughest
>>ever.
>				...
>>
>>                        "It's Sea Lions"
>>
>>Seymour then volunteered that the salmon decline was due to
>>federal protection for sea lions, and went on to blast the
>>Endangered Species Act.
>
>Heck, everyone knows that salmon were an endangered species until us
>humans came along and started protecting them from sea lions ...
>(-:
>
Environmental scapegoating must be even more fashionable than knocking
nuclear power.  The effect of dams on salmon-spawning rivers and 
clear-cutting logging on the siltation of these rivers is well
documented. 

Limiting the salmin season will only delay the effect.  Until the
environmental degradation that is destroying the salmon spawning
stops, the fish will continue to decline.  This is one of
the most clear-cut case of environmental damage causing a loss of jobs.
>
>-- richard
>
>-- 
>=====
>-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
>         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
>                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Jim_May@macgate.csuchico.edu (Jim May)
Newsgroups: alt.native
Subject: Re: Bush and Clinton - NA policies.
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:34:12 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: mlib13-mac10.csuchico.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6F5E8196F013C6E@mlib13-mac10.csuchico.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 5 Oct 92 12:39:53 GMT

In article <01GPH40OYU288WYGLY@AXE.HUMBOLDT.EDU> andrew l. andreoli,
beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!axe.humboldt.edu!ANDREOLI writes:
>Indians cannot be given preference as individuals, however, because they
are
>citizens of Indian Nations and there is a government to government
>relationship between tribes (Indian Nations) and the US Government,
Indians
>can receive preference for jobs generated from funds specifically
related to
>or for Indian purposes both on and off the reservation.  See the law
case,
>Mancari v. Morton.  

Well stated.

>Giving Indian Tribes preference is small payment for all of
>the land stolen from us in the lost 500 years.

Amen!!
From: Alan McGowen <alanm@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.native
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:48 PDT
Subject: Re: NativeNet Chat's Direction
Nf-ID: #R:9209230814.AA02915@mamia.uucp:-1112169643:cdp:1308200074:000:2354
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!alanm    Sep 30 14:48:00 1992


Peshe:

>>> It's not impossible to set up a list focussed primarily on North
>>> American Indian concerns (nn.amerind or a more separated list) but
>>> it would be most helpful to have assistance with some of the
>>> technical details from the nn list moderators...
>
myself:
>> Not a list, damn it!, a whole Native American network! Don't set
>> your sights where the existing systems allow, set them where your
>> hearts point! There is plenty of capacity, existing and coming,
>> to handle your needs. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
>
Gary:
>Stirring words, Alan.  But it doesn't have to be one or the other.  The
>primary reason for utilizing mailing list technology in addition to the
>Usenet-style newsgroups like alt.native is that many people do not have
>access to Usenet, such as the many people on Bitnet.  The alt.native /
>NATCHAT example, however, proves that it is possible to have both work
>smoothly with one another.  Those who can get to the conference via Use-
>net do so, and others become subscribers to the parallel NATCHAT list.

Another option which might be explored would be the possibility of
setting up a network within the APC family. This is a private system of
networks, and it therefore allows for the possibility of restricting 
access to certain conferences, which would not be legal in Usenet or
Bitnet. Obviously funding could be a problem, but it might be worth 
while to find out how much funding it would take if it can be done. 
Just a thought. [I don't think it can involve enormous amounts of money
to set up the conferences, since the US Green Party runs quite a few
conferences within APC.]

myself:
>> But let's not forget South American Indians, or people in
>> Indonesia or Africa. They are voiceless, and have far less power
>> than you do. They have no modems to interface with internet. And
>> when we have tricked them into dependence on such things, their
>> culture is already destroyed. Please think about that.
>

Gary:

>One lesson I have learned during the past several years and which has
>been emphasized by means of numerous examples is that indigenous people
>*are not* museum artifacts, and have no desire to preserve elements of
>culture which are not survival-oriented in the contemporary world.

[...]

The key word was *dependence* on such things. 

------------
Alan McGowen


Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Colombus Legacy=500 Years of Racism & Stolen Land <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!ucs.indiana.edu!DSOTO>
Subject: Anti-Columbus protest continue...
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:27:47 GMT

Original-Sender: Colombus Legacy=500 Years of Racism & Stolen Land <ucs.indiana.edu!DSOTO>

From:	PO%"ACTIV-L@MIZZOU1.BITNET"  1-OCT-1992 19:57:40.96
CC:	
Subj:	Anti-Columbus protests continue despite killings /ww

          for DSOTO@IUBACS; Thu,  1 Oct 92 19:55 EST
 6888; Thu, 01 Oct 92 15:02:28 EST
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:58:08 CDT
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Subject: Adaptation (was: inclusion, exclusion)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 14:53:25 GMT
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!ece!PSHINOGEE writes: 
| 
| Indigenous people have a universal worldview and believe in
| co-existence not separateness. In both North and South America,
| when the colonizers set boundaries between the Indians and
| themselves, the Indians thought they had a mutual agreement
| of recognition of "sovereignty". The colonizers thought that
| since the Indians didn't want to conform to western civilization
| then they must be savages, barbarians, etc. The only rights
| the Indians had was a right to sell their land.

This brings up a point that I have often been curious about.  I have read
in a few places that the whole concept of anyone "owning" land was 
completely foreign to the early Indians.  Yet some of the earliest 
records that we read where the indigenous people interacted with the
Europeans involve land deals (Manhattan Island, etc.).

Have I been misled?  Or did they simply adapt to other ideas that
quickly?  I'm interested in the mindset of all of the branches of my
ancestry, and this one seems to be the one that I find the hardest to
fathom.  

Can someone who understands better than I fill me in?  Thanks.

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dr. Pavlov's distinguished career came to an      |
|abrupt end one day when the doorbell rang and the |
|dog ate the Avon lady.                            |
+--------------------------------------------------+
From: anchor.esd.sgi.com!lyn (Lyn Dearborn)
Subject: Re: NativeNet Chat's Direction
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:41:37 GMT

Original-Sender:  Lyn Dearborn (lyn@anchor.esd.sgi.com)

What matters and what doesn't in Alan's "constraints of the natural
order" ??????

It would be more meaningful to many of the Natives on Native Net if it
was a Native saying:

(from a mailing of Alan's)-- "who have inherited the end result of a long
communion with nature -- for guidance towards it. It is the second way -- the
shortcut way, if you will, which is threatened by the forces that are
eliminating the world's cultural diversity. Gil is quite right that this won't
end The Law itself -- but it will make it much harder for people to find it.
Elsewhere I called The Law, as it applies to us,  the  "human niche". But
perhaps these metaphors for it will be more meaningful to many in this group."
(end of Alan quote)

But I don't think any of us would say it this way...  but perhaps that is
only MY opinion.

lyn

 Let no one tell me that silence gives   | Lyn Dearborn
 consent, because whoever is silent      | Naturalist/Person
 dissents                                | dearborn@anchor.esd.sgi.com
	 Maria Isabel Barreno


Newsgroups: alt.native
From: cll9019@sigma.tamu.edu (LIVELY, CLINT LEWIS)
Subject: Re: Indian Boy Suspended from School for Wearing Long Hair
Followup-To: alt.native
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:21:00 GMT

A similar thing happened at Lubbock High School in Lubbock, Tx, about 2 
years ago.  A young man was suspended from school for wearing his hair
in a traditional manner.  He and his father spoke before the school board
but I do not believe they were succseful at changing any minds.  Luckily,
I graduated a year before.(I still wear my hair long.)
                              Clint Lively
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: "Elizabeth B. Pollard" <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!asnuah.asn.net!UAHEBP01>
Subject: Video Reviews
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 16:53:00 GMT

Original-Sender: "Elizabeth B. Pollard" <asnuah.asn.net!UAHEBP01>

>Original-Sender: em.lanl.gov!ANDERSON_DAVID_A

>     I take great exception to terminology used in Brock's review of the
>Spirit of Crazy Horse.  He perpetuates the falsehood instigated by Mary Ellen
>Crow Dog and Peter Matthiesen. ...

I am interested to see that someone else is perturbed by these reviews.
I have similar concerns about the review of "Geronimo and the Apache
Resistance." Although the review is favorable, it perpetuates some falsehoods
and instigates some alarming new ones, so much so that my husband plans a
response point by point very shortly. The reviews are useful in some respects,
but not if they twist facts.

>If the video Brock refers to perpetuates this racism, it is neither
>"historically correct" nor "perfect for the classroom" but, rather,
>another indignity heaped upon Native Americans.

Perhaps it will interest you that we have our own copies of both the Geronimo
video and "The Spirit of Crazy Horse," and we do not believe that the
falsehoods are contained in the videos, but originate with the reviewer. Could
there be reviewer bias creeping into them?

--Liz

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 Elizabeth Pollard              Bitnet: uahebp01@uahvax1
 Systems Librarian              Internet: uahebp01@asnuah.asn.net
 Univ. of Ala./Huntsville       Compuserve: 72457,1560
 Huntsville, AL 35899           Phone: (205) 895-6313
                                Fax: (205) 895-6862

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Newsgroups: alt.native
From: "andrew l. andreoli" <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!axe.humboldt.edu!ANDREOLI>
Subject: Re: NativeNet Chat's Direction
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:40:00 GMT

Original-Sender: "andrew l. andreoli" <axe.humboldt.edu!ANDREOLI>

The idea of the North American Indian issues forum is a good one.  I am
looking foward to your ideas to accomplish setting one up.

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Hawaii documentary?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 03:08:16 GMT

There's a new documentary on Hawaii thats supposed to be very good.  It
covers the history of the Hawaiian people and their oppression by the
US govt. Supposedly it will be on PBS soon.  I don't have the name of the movie.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about and if it will be on PBS or is
otherwise available?
-Terry
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: NatChat Discussion List <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!genetics.washington.edu!native>
Subject: Help with moderation policy
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:40:28 GMT

Original-Sender: NatChat Discussion List <genetics.washington.edu!native>

There's been considerable discussion over our policies on accepting and
rejecting messages for NatChat.  We're interested in getting some
feedback on our strategies so as to be able to serve the readership better.
Any comments from the NatChat community would help very much.  Please
send them by email to Mary and Jon at mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu,
not to NatChat itself.

Strategies:

We've tended to reject postings which quote the previous poster's message
and say 'Me too' at the end and nothing more.  These can be valuable
in indicating the consensus of the net, but many readers find them so
exasperating that it seems better to reject them.

We try to return to the poster for clarification anything that looks like
it might be private email--in general, anything which starts by
addressing itself to a particular person ("Dear Mary") or otherwise
raises doubt that it was meant to be posted.  This is done to protect
the confidentiality of private letters, which are often sent to us by
mistake.  If your message takes the form of a letter but is really meant
to be posted, please try to make that clear to us.

We've rejected postings which are about general environmental issues,
due to a flood of email saying that this is not an appropriate use for
NatChat.  This doesn't come from a lack of interest in or committment to
the environment; but our charter as a discussion group is to talk about
Native issues.

Postings which seem to be news rather than discussion are forwarded to
nn.general for Gary's consideration.

Finally and most painfully, we've rejected, or sent back to the authors
for revision, a small number (5-10) of postings which seemed overly
hostile or violent.  In some cases this has resulted in a calmer and (in
my judgement) better posting; in others, accusations of censorship and
coercion, and the withdrawal of the poster from the list.  We would like
some guidance from the NatChat community on this matter.  I've tended to
post such messages unchanged if the author is not willing to revise them,
but the process of asking for revision delays the message by many days,
and may cause it to be posted long after the discussion is over.

One further point I would like to clarify:  although the Usenet
newsgroup alt.native is linked to the moderated NatChat mailing list,
alt.native itself is not moderated.  I will relay messages to alt.native
for anyone who wishes to post there but cannot reach it.  This is one
way to insure that a message which is not accepted by NatChat still
reaches a wide readership.

Sincerely,

Mary Kuhner/mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu/Co-moderator, NatChat

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: robwil@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Wilson)
Subject: Deep South Anti-Columbus Anarchist Gathering
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:37:19 GMT


I thought some in this group might be interested in this:



DEEP SOUTH ANTI-COLUMBUS ANARCHIST GATHERING
	WHEN: OCTOBER 8-12 
	WHERE: NEW ORLEANS

Yes indeed friends, Columbus was definately a lost conquistador who screwed up
a pretty good scene.  That being the case, let's do something to correct the
image people have of Columbus and promote alternative to the Western Imperialism
that he brought over with him.  Let's all get together and promote anarchist
alternatives to the people of New Orleans.  This is a very poor city that is in
desperate need of radical solutions to a world gone wrong.  So come on down to
New Orleans and express your anger, joy, passion, rage, and everything else you
are feeling, thinking, believing, and not believing.  Living space will be 
provided, but bring all the supplies you would need to survive in campground-
like conditions.  Also, bring any ideas, posters, flyers, magazines, books,
tapes, musical instruments, silk-screening   equipment, or anything else that
you would like to share with a bunch of anarchists who drink alot of Bourbon,
but don't hang out on the tourist trap, consume/die Bourbon Street.  Following
are some ideas that we could put into action when you come:

		EDUCATION ABOUT COLUMBUS
		ANTI-COLUMBUS ACTIONS (to be planned here; many to do)
		WAR ON THE POOR ALTERNATIVES
		ANTI-WORK ACTIONS
		NETWORK TOGETHER FOR MUTUAL AID AFTER THE GATHERING
		HEAVY POSTERING AND INFO SPREADING SQUADS
		DAY OF WORKSHOPS (lectures, silk-screening, zines, flyering)
			We need more workshops by others, show us your stuff.
		FREE ALL-AGE HARDCORE AND MUSIC FESTIVAL!
		DON'T VOTE DEMO
		SWIM IN THE TOXIC MISSISSIPPI RIVER!

			Any ideas you have....

Send any ideas, info, posters, flyers, etc. to counter Columbus Day:
	Deep South Anarchist Federation
	P.O. Box 791191, New Orleans, LA 70179-1191

If you wish to participate, call our info-line to join us when you get in town:
	(504)364-5163

Any support anyone wishes to provide, at any level, is welcome!  Thanks.


Newsgroups: alt.native,soc.roots
From: cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy)
Subject: Re: Native American ancestor search
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:41:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: A Suffusion of Yellow

ccuppern@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Cyndi Cuppernell) writes: 
| 
| Does anyone have any experience with searching out geneology
| records for Native Americans?  Are there many records?  It has
| always been a source of pride in our family that we at least have
| a trace of Native American ancestry, and my family is anxious to
| trace this down if possible.  It may be that it was actually a
| different great grandmother was the Native American, but if that's
| the case, I am not sure where I would find records.-- 

Good luck.  As a general rule, you probably *won't* find any records that
far back.  My great, great grandmother was a Cherokee.  The only reason that
we have that information is because both my father and my grandfather knew
her and her relatives.  When my family moved into Gilmer County, Georgia,
in the first land lottery there in 1848 (when the land was taken from the
Cherokees), the only census records from anywhere around those times include
lists of all of the landowners. There's usually a postscript that lists
<n> indians and <m> blacks, but no names.

+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dave Cochran, Data General Corporation, RTP, NC   |
|cochran@dg-rtp.dg.com                             |
+--------------------------------------------------+
|Dr. Pavlov's distinguished career came to an      |
|abrupt end one day when the doorbell rang and the |
|dog ate the Avon lady.                            |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.native
From: Alan McGowen <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>
Subject: Re: NativeNet Chat's Direction
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 17:11:34 GMT

Original-Sender: Alan McGowen <hpindbu.cup.hp.com!alanm>

Gil Hardwick writes:

>
> On Tue, 22 Sep 1992 14:38:56 -0700, NativeNet%gnosys.svle.ma.us@tamvm1.tamu.edu
> Aboriginality has nothing to do with black faces. It is a way of
> looking at the world we call The Dreaming, or The Law.
>
> There is no worry about it being
> "lost", as anthropologists as a rule insist; it is there for the
> asking, anytime the young ones decide to follow the proper way to
> live.
>

In mundane terms, the Law -- which Gil Hardwick rightly suspects can also be
found outside Australia -- is a knowledge of how to live sustainably within
the constraints of the natural order, in a way which is humanly fulfilling.

There are two ways to find such a Law. One way is to ask nature for guidance
towards it over a long period of time. This is how such Law is found in the
first place. The second way is to ask those who already know "the proper way
to live" -- who have inherited the end result of a long communion with nature
-- for guidance towards it. It is the second way -- the shortcut way,
if you will, which is threatened by the forces that are eliminating the
world's cultural diversity. Gil is quite right that this won't end The Law
itself -- but it will make it much harder for people to find it.

Elsewhere I called The Law, as it applies to us,  the  "human niche". But
perhaps these metaphors for it will be more meaningful to many in this group.

------------
Alan McGowen
From: "andrew l. andreoli" <beaver.cs.washington.edu!gnosys!axe.humboldt.edu!ANDREOLI>
Subject: Re: Bush and Clinton - NA policies.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:36:00 GMT

Original-Sender: "andrew l. andreoli" <axe.humboldt.edu!ANDREOLI>

Indians cannot be given preference as individuals, however, because they are
citizens of Indian Nations and there is a government to government
relationship between tribes (Indian Nations) and the US Government, Indians
can receive preference for jobs generated from funds specifically related to
or for Indian purposes both on and off the reservation.  See the law case,
Mancari v. Morton.  Giving Indian Tribes preference is small payment for all of
the land stolen from us in the lost 500 years.

Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,talk.bizarre
From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: RFD: alt.cesium.poetry  was re: How to upset physicists (one lesson only)
Keywords: beer, staples, sucrets, topaz, and Ra, the Sun God
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:02:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.035429.23793@tc.cornell.edu> mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:
>
>These shamen dance and turn big circles around me. I am but a
>pathetic mortal, and their expressions turn from wild to 
>wretched as I watch. They cry-- the dusty paint running from
>their faces, wet clay dripping to the ground-- above the 
>sky is clear and a full moon blinds me, a wolf cries out a
>possessed whine far away. And still they dance and dance and
>dance-- one of them asks me my name, another asks who I love,
>another asks me what is the integral of e to the cosine theta
>times inverse tan of two theta d theta, I tell him I can't solve
>that off the top of my head and he spits at me in disgust. 

Seriously.


-- 
David Knapp                                      University of Colorado, Boulder
Perpetual Student                                   knapp@spot.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: alt.non.sequitur,alt.cascade,alt.is.too