HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:23:52 GMT
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies

gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>> ... I thought that, in a general sense, the way that
>> creating newsgroups worked was to create the hierarchy, and
>> then later to propose new RFDs for these other groups.  Once
>> a solid hierarchy was created, in other words, others could
>> later build upon it as they wished.

>Right, but what we want to give some thought to at this point is what
>sort of base we are building for later development.  Since we do not
>yet have a subject-matter exchange going, aside from what already exists
>on the NativeNet mailing lists, it seems too soon to attempt a breakdown
>by region, so we are probably better off with just creating a basic
>"soc.culture.native" at this point, though I would prefer making the
>next level of division bifurcated based on a distinction between infor-
>mation (".info") and discussion (".chat" or ".misc"), to permit easy links
>with NativeNet lists to be established.  Later, a "soc.culture.native.chat"
>newsgroup could be used to consider whether it was time to talk about
>creating a "soc.culture.native.info.america" or some such, if there was
>enough traffic of a strictly (North/South) American nature, and if folks
>wanted to consider that subject matter separately.

>How does that idea sound?

>Gary

Hello Gary,

To my mind, that sounds like an excellent idea.  These things
take time, and a step-by-step buidling process, through discussions
and votes on newsgroups, will eventually lead, if all goes well,
to the outcome you desire.  Once a solid hierarchy is created,
in other words, you will then have an opportunity to make an
excellent case for different levels which will enable you to
make the important link between USENET and NativeNet.  

But again, these things take time, and some patience will be
required (especially from me).

Anon,

Mike

==========================
Michael Wilson
idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
==========================
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 03:19:54 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <1993Jan2.024547.19809@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>I don't understand what's wrong with Peter but until now I never thought
>I'd come across someone who, despite all evidence to the contrary,
>continues to believe and publicly state that the word "conservative" is
>meaningless and idiotic as a label for a political point of view.  As
>several people have said, "conservative" has a well-established meaning in
>terms of culture, philosophy, and political thought dating back hundreds
>of years.  

Oh, bullshit.  Conservative (like most political labels) changes
meaning every generation.  Most people would call Jerry Pournelle
conservative; in one of his anthologies he mentions that a couple
of decades ago he'd be thinking of himself as a liberal and gets
rather heated about the way the word "liberal" has been misused.
Nobody with any sense of history thinks that conservative means
the same thing it used to.

That said, I think the group should have conservative in the
name.  Despite the fact that the meaning of the word changes, 
it's still a decent identifier at any given moment.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: hollen@megatek.UUCP (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.vw reorganization
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:55:59 GMT

>>>>> On 18 Dec 1992 20:58:51 -0500, matocha@aurora.engr.latech.edu (Kevin Matocha) said:

Kevin> CREATION OF NEWSGROUPS

Kevin> 	rec.autos.vw.air-cooled        (un-moderated)
Kevin> 	rec.autos.vw.water-cooled      (un-moderated)
Kevin> 	rec.autos.vw.misc	       (un-moderated)

Kevin> REASON

Kevin> Many readers have interests in either singly air- or water-cooled
Kevin> VWs, and do not care to read messages concerning the opposite
Kevin> engine types.  Others do not hold interests in the discussion
Kevin> of other makes of vehicles in the VW family of autos. 

I agree with this proposal.  I have a huge kill file which I apply
because I am not interested in water-cooled VVWs.  If I owned a water
cooler and not an air cooler, I would kill all of the air stuff.
With the volume of the group getting pretty large, I think there is
sufficient traffic for two groups and with the .misc group, all cross
fertilization issues can be seen by all parties.  I will vote yes for
this proposal when it comes to a vote.  Thanks, Kevin for taking on
the formal proposal task.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck                        Email: hollen@megatek.com
Senior Software Engineer                      megatek!hollen@uunet.uu.net
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek.uucp!hollen
Xref: sparky news.groups:24972 soc.motss:54154
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:31:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.BzF7os.Ap4
Organization: Open Communications Forum

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>	One idea I had a long time ago was to make soc.motss.*
>moderated insofar as ANY, *ANY* cross-posted articles got
>bounced, and other stuff went thru unchecked.  The moderations,
>as such would be done auto-magically. (Soc.bi and the other *.motss
>groups would probably be an exception to this...)

I like this idea.

>	Were I to suggest this now, I'd also suggest a
>group KILL file the contents of which would be voted upon
>in some soc.motss.d subgroup created for this sort of drary
>admministrivia.  Some time-limit on the contents would probably
>be there, say 6 months.

I like this idea even better.  A solution for situations in which
people flagrantly violate the newsgroup's charter and their sysadmin 
refuses to act despite repeated complaints (i.e., Clayton Cramer).

>	soc.motss.misc	- "classic" soc.motss
>	soc.motss.info (moderated) - news/reprints/etc.
>	soc.motss.d - who gets to moderate, content arbitration, etc.

>	One might argue for soc.motss.current as well.

soc.motss.info -- would discussion take place here?  If it's just
an archive would soc.motss.announce would be a better title?
-- 
Brent Capps                          | "It's just a phase you're going  
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    |  through.  Last year it was 
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |  miniature golf."
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 16:10:32 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen):
>If I'm not mistaken, Chip Salzenberg was lamenting a few
>weeks back that some components he finds useful in CFV's 
>were "state of the art" a few years ago, but people seldom
>use them anymore.

Quite.

>Perhaps if there were more formalization of these ideas they
>would be used more frequently? 

Perhaps so.  But formalization might stifle innovation.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagels to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Date: 24 Dec 92 02:10:16 GMT
Organization: Virginia Center for Lemur Fandom (subscribe to alt.fan.lemurs TODAY)

In article <id.US1W.YS3@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>In article <BzoFr6.5Bw@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
>> In article <id.OF0W.KA@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>> >(me, I always thought conservative meant, you know, conservative. Like the
>> > Nature Conservancy, and the conservation movement... but if they want to
>> > redefine this word I'll happily let them join the progressives in their
>> > mutilation of the language)
>
>> Oh, come ON, Peter, don't be such a bleeding rocket scientist.  Assuming
>> you live in the USA, where has your mind BEEN for the last twelve years
>> while we've had Presidents in the White House who only used the word
>> "conservative" about every fifth word, and used it to mean
>> right-of-the-political-center?  
>
>Well, prior to 1980 I was in Australia, where the right-of-center party
>is called the "Liberal Party", the left-of-center party is the "Labor Party",
>and there are half a dozen other parties with significant voting blocs. You
>know, a vibrant parlimentary democracy where you don't have to guess whether
>"conservative" means "pro business", "religious fundamentalist", "anti
>communist", "individual rights", "market economy", "small government",
>"states rights", or something else. Or, for that matter whether "liberal"
>means "pop ecology", "socialist", "individual rights", "managed economy",
>"federalist", or something else.

Which is why I recommend putting the word "usa" in the name.  That way,
any Australians who have an idea that conservative means "green" or
"nature" politics will look at it and say "'talk.politics.usa.con- 
servative'.  Well, that's a group that's about American politics.  Let's go
back to aus.conserve and hang out."

If there were a us. hierarchy, I'd say "put this group there."  But as
mail trickles in from people explaining the us. hierarchy to me, I'd say
that it's not real likely to be a functioning hierarchy anytime soon. 
Thus, the least ambiguous name would be "talk.politics.usa.conservative". 
Xref: sparky news.groups:24806 soc.motss:53367
From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: _Science News_ 12/19
Keywords: Natural Formations
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:01:32 GMT
Organization: Trivializers R Us


Has anyone else noticed the illustration on p 423 of the current _SN_?

It's cribbed from the 11/20 issue of _Science_, but the picture
and caption caught my eye -- to quote,

"The Landers quake and its aftershocks (which form a white lambda
shape near the center of the image) have increased stress on sections
of the San Andreas fault . . . pink areas show reduced stress." 

And by golly, there it is, white on pink, covering So Cal from
Barstow well past Palm Springs. Really quite purty.

paul  (who's not going to quote the part about closely-spaced foreshocks)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:19:23 GMT

In article <EMCGUIRE.92Dec21174431@fuller.intellection.com> emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:
> There is a direct correlation between a wide vote margin and a
> "healthy group"

I don't know. I find there is a higher correlation between a low absolute
number of "NO" votes and a healthy group.

> (if by this you mean high traffic).

Hardly. I mean high signal-to-noise ratio.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:06:29 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <1ha2eaINNdbi@agate.berkeley.edu> chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:

>Since we already have rec.arts.movies, and nobody seems to be using
>r.a.cinema, why not remove it?

It is a very quiet (ok... dead) group but when it is active it covers a
lot of discussion that rec.arts.movies generally avoids.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
    "I feel like a hypocrite talking to you... and your rascist firends."
                            - They Might Be Giants
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* / Automoderation.
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 04:39:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.000941.7726@dvorak.amd.com>
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D.  Barrett) writes:

>It would be nice to segragate the news and glaad
>postings and such in a readonly directory which is moderated by
>whomever wants to take the job. 
 ^^^^^^^^

Minor grammatical clue (not a flame): you can eliminate this
word completely from your language and never once be wrong.
If you keep it, you'll be risking the error you made here;
the correct word in this context (the subject of its clause)
is "whoever."

A little hypercorrection almost always goes the wrong way, eh?

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Xref: sparky news.groups:24796 alt.native:1515
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: LAST DAY: STRAW POLL FOR NATIVE NEWSGROUP
Summary: December 21 is the last day to vote.
Keywords: straw poll, native newsgroups
Date: 21 Dec 92 05:31:44 GMT
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies

Hello All,

Just a reminder to all of you that today, December 21st, is the
last day to vote in the straw poll for your choice of a name
for the proposed newsgroup for native peoples.  If you haven't
already done so, please take the time to send in a vote to:

		idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu

Of course, this will not be the last day that a name will be 
discussed; indeed, the results of the poll will simply provide 
a new focus to the old issue of naming the group.

For those of you who have voted, thank you for your participation
in the formation of this important newsgroup.

Mike
Xref: sparky news.groups:24768 rec.autos.vw:7637
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.vw reorganization
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:50:07 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos.vw, fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:
>matocha@aurora.engr.latech.edu (Kevin Matocha) says:
>
>>       rec.autos.vw.air-cooled        (un-moderated)
>>       rec.autos.vw.water-cooled      (un-moderated)
>>       rec.autos.vw.misc              (un-moderated)
>
>Is there enough traffic in rec.autos.vw to justify a

Three newsgroups?  I don't think this is necessary at all. The traffic
is not that tremendous to call for this. If you don't want to read an
article.....just don't read it.
.....just my two pence worth.....
   O
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil
  /     David Taylor Model Basin
   \___________________________
			     \\
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.movies,alt.messianic
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 14:01:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.133214.21063@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>In article <C04FtH.MLx@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec30.190115.12558@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>> >In <1992Dec28.133402.15296@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
>> >>If memory serves, there is no way to "unmoderate" a newsgroup effectively,
>> >>since some news software programs out there won't ever acknowledge it and
>> >>CAN'T acknowledge it.  David Lawrence has said that basically what you
>> >>have to do is rmgroup the group and then make a new one if people want. 
>> >
>> >If my memory serves, you can send out a control message with a new
>> >moderator with somewhat better results, can't you? I seem to remember this
>> >coming up during the recent discussion of rec.arts.erotica.
>> 
>> I don't recall it ever actually happening.  Usually someone says "well, DO
>> it" and nothing ever gets done and a year later someone's asking why no
>> posts ever appear in the given group.
>
>I also have tried to contact Manavendra, with no response.  He's
>probably left MIT but his login is still sitting there.
>
>The first step (IMHO) is for someone to volunteer to replace him as
>moderator.  I would then suggest that this be posted to news.groups for
>discussion with the understanding that if no objections are heard, this
>will take effect in thirty days.  Then send out the message (assuming
>of course that someone knows how to do it).

Unfortunately, I don't think it works like that.  I've read here in
news.groups many times that the *only* way to fix a munged moderatorship
is to rmgroup the group *entirely* and start it over as a new group with a
new moderator or without a moderator at all.  Any other discussion, offers
to moderate, etc. etc. ignores the way news software works at many sites.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ed@Tekelec.Com (Ed Campbell)
Subject: Re: what does it take to get someone to vote?
Organization: Tekelec Inc
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 21:13:14 GMT

>In article <n1258t@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org writes:
>>On <Dec 17 12:40>, Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (1:103/208) wrote to All:
>>
>>
>> ST>Perhaps something more drastic is needed. Force the USENET 
>> ST>newsreader
>> ST>programs to make it MANDATORY to vote on a certain percentage of 
>> ST>CFV's
>> ST>otherwise they can't read news... Totally automate the voting 
>> ST>process
>> ST>(i.e. make it similar to posting to a moderated group which 
>> ST>actually
>> ST>gets sent to the moderator and so on...). 
>>
>> ST>I can imagine the newsreading software doing this:
>> ST> 
>> ST>  $ rn rec.music.makers.tuba
>> ST>  ...........
>> ST>  checking news group
>> ST>  there is a CVF which you have ignored. You can not read this 
>> ST>     news group until you vote. 
>> ST>  do you want details of the CFV (y/n) y
>>
>And I can imagine a LOT of people voting NO on everything just out of
>>sheer irritation...  I'm not so sure it's really so desirable to have
>everybody vote on usenet items - if the subject is neither one in which
>the user has an interest nor one that is so badly misnamed, adequately
>handled elsewhere or a Threat to the Net as We Know It (tm).. why SHOULD he
>or she vote?  What is the point?
>

    If there is a vote on a news group in which I have no interest or
dealing with a subject that I can see would be interesting to someone
else, I would prefer not to vote. For example, I do not care if rec.
music.makers.tuba is changed to rec.tuba.players and another group,
rec.tuba.music.writers is added. Votes on such things by disinterested
persons would make no sense unless there is a "0.5" or "maybe" level
vote. (Maybe = + 0.5, probably not = - 0.5 so 2 of these = 1 yes/no).

   Something I have a problem with is that all votes I have seen so
far require E-mail to the counter. I can post votes, but E-mail does
not work reliably from my work station except when replying to received
mail. This is probably because I have not yet figured how to add the
external address and the internal addresses to get through our network
to the usenet server, but that is irrelevent. Now, if a vote comes up
on a group that I can pass a learned opinion on, and posted votes are
acceptable, or someone mails a query to me so I can reply, then I will
vote.


Ed Campbell
     Email ed@Tekelec.com (maybe) 


  
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: All your postings to this newsgroup might go wasted!
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:27:20 GMT
Organization: Recognition Equipment, Inc.

ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:

>If I may, I would like to open a discussion on this rule we
>inadvertently broke in good faith, because is it not necessarily a
>very sensible rule.  Think of persistent double groups like
>comp.sys.ibm.pc and comp.os.msdos..  I suspect that the problem is a
>direct consequence of the rmgroup delay rule.

The delay rule is probably a good idea, since not all news readers
follow what is going on in the groups day by day.  If the cbip.archives
group were to be deleted immediately, there would be a large outcry of
people over the next few weeks, wondering what happened to that group
they liked to read occasionally?  It just disappeared!  These people
need time to come around to the group and be told that the group is
being moved, and that they should change their subscriptions
accordingly.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |  "You have been recruited by the Star League to defend
#endif             |     the Frontier against Xur and the Kodan Armada."
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic