HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 19:39:57 GMT

In article <Bz68GF.Gu5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:
>inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:
>
>>GUILE
>>------
>
>>Toast.  Against Guile, the trap is every bit as effective as Ryu's is.  I 
>>haven't found a Guile yet that's been able to get out, although it _is_
>>possible to turn the trap into a stalemate.  All Guile has to do is duck the 
>>high tigers, and do a forward 'turn kick' (neutral stick + forward) over the
>>low tigers.
>
>Not quite. There is quite a bit of difference between the Ryu fireball
>trap and the Sagat tiger trap.  First of all, Sagat has more delay 
>after throwing his tiger than Ryu does after a fireball. In addition,
>you can combo Sagat as Guile with a jumping forward kick combo if
>you anticipate and jump a low tiger. 
>

Nope, sorry.  In a correctly executed firebird trap, Sagat is too far away
to be comobed with a forward flip. Also, I'd be quite silly if I threw a
firebird when I was in combo range.  The whole point of the trap is to keep
Guile pinned _away_ from Sagat, to neutralize Guile's combos/flashkick.

>Sagat is also more susceptible to the Guile trap...
>

Why?  What does Sagat not have over Ryu/Ken in this situation (being trapped)?
He doesn't have an invunerable DP, which means he can't DP through sonic 
booms.  Oh well.  But he DOES have a quicker (and high) jump, making it easier
to for me to jump over one your sonic booms.  Once I'm over that first one,
it's your move.  Throw another sonic boom, and I'll jump forward, using my
extra LONG leg to keep you from countering. (Ryu/Ken can get knocked back
into the corner with a well placed standing fierce.)  If you block this attack,
I land (out of the corner) and the trap is broken.  If you take your chances
and go for a sac-throw, you risk getting stuck in a four hit combo with a 
possible dizzy for yet another four hit combo.

Face it, Sagat is just a Guile killer.  There's really nothing a Guile can
do against a smart, defensive Sagat (deep TU required).  It's just one of
those mathch-ups.....Sagat is similarly trashed by Bison.

>>---
>>T. Cannon
>>(who thinks Ken's SPAM against Sagat)
>
>
>-- 
> Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
> 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
---
T. Cannon

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:11:35 GMT

bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom) writes:

>In <BzA13z.GnF@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:

	[Honda question deleted]

>>>Knowing the cheese, Bison will win the exchange.  My question is which will
>>>win, the 1000 hand slap or the cheese?  If Bison wins this exchange, Honda
>>>can just give it up.

>>	OK.  Not to say for a second that Honda is worth his weight in brine
>>	shrimp as a character in general, but he fares alright against Bison.
>>	I have not seen the forward kick used with any great success, but the
>>	crouching strong is very effective.  Try it and see.  The 1000 hand
>>	slap can (is capable of) beating the cheese, but only if Bison is   
>>	unlucky enough to connect when one of the 1000 hands is in the position
>>	of the strong punch (ie straight ahead).  Needless to say this does
>>	not happen very often, much the same as Chun Li's lihtning kick.
>>	Using this crouching strong punch as a ground based counter to the
>>	cheese, Honda becomes more than capable against your average Bison.

>I thought that you were trying to say at first that the crouching strong would
>beat the cheese, but at the end, you say to use it as a counter.  What can
>Honda do about the cheese itself rather than just countering it?  It would
>seem like all a Bison has to do is flame, and then block, so the crouching
>strong would have no effect.  Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you're 
>saying cuz I don't use Honda.

	I dont know what you mean by "beat the cheese", but if Bison 'pedo's
	at you then you can use Honda's crouching strong or jab punches to 
	knock him out of it.  That is all I meant.  No great advice about
	Honda in general here, IMO, there is no such thing as great Honda
	advice, simply advising anyone to use Honda is not "great advice".

		Seth Killian

>-- 
>Brian T Odom

>"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
>others make excuses."
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom)
Subject: Re: Extremely-Easy SPD Manuver?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 13:24:57 GMT

In <-zh2kdb@rpi.edu> petitc@nuge114.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit) writes:

>  I was just looking at the ways to do the SPD, and I thought of what might
>be the simplest possible way to do the SPD.

>  Note:  This hasn't been tested yet---I'll do that when the union opens,
>and follow this up later, either with a confirmation or apology for wasting
>bandwidth.

>  Anyhow, what seems to be an easy way to SPD is:

> O-      -O        O-

>  or

> -O     O-      -O

> (and then any punch)

> Maybe the SPD just looks for 3 different compass directions in a row?

OK, OK, OK, I'm the one responsible for this SPD stuff.  I have discovered that
my easy way of doing the SPD may not be entirely correct.

when I do this:
0-, /, |, \, -0 + punch, I get the SPD about 50% of the time
   0   0   0
BUT
when I do this:   0
0-, /, |, \, -0, / + punch, I get the SPD about 80% of the time
   0   0   0

I am not entirely proficient with the SPD, so I can't get it 100% of the time.

I think the above is correct, and that I may have been moving the joystick
slightly towards the diagonal position when pressing the button.

However, I will propose this:
 	       0
 /, |, \, -0, / + punch    (a slanted 180 half circle)
0   0   0

Looks odd, but it may work.  I guess I'll go try that out.



-- 
Brian T Odom

"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
others make excuses."
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tzbw5@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: More on Sagat.
Reply-To: tzbw5@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:24:11 GMT

For one thing i would like thank all of those people who help me and
given me tips and stragies on the big guy and i hope that the info
doenst stop pouring in. I used to wonder whether or not there was anyone
out there playing him. I asked and asked and asked. I guess you guys 
where busy shoveling in quarters (like me) making your own assumptions
trying out new things and getting dogged by blanka players who hadent 
put in the time that you guys had put in.
Any way now that its pretty much established how he rates as a character.
I wonder what thoughts many of you guys have on Sagat in terms of throw
priority and overall ablility to throw and counter throw with Sagat.
I personally find counter throwing to be a hell of alot more efficient
than Sac throwing and aggressive throwing. He is one of the most 
complex characters to learn when it comes to timing, proper distances for
defense and offense. And his moves dont seem to me to be ass fluid as
Ken and Ryu's. I play Sagat almost exclusivly now. I used to be the best
Guile player around here by far, but playing Sagat has left my Guile
skills alittle on the deteriorated side. I personally find his moves to 
intersting. Much the way i felt about Guile in the classic. Do you guys
think that he has the potential to dominate the way Guile did on the Old
Sf2?  Now that he is out in the open forum in such abundance i think
that quality of info and ability of those who play him will be dramatically
inhanced. Just like Ken/Ryu/Guile/Zangief players have been lucky to 
be able to ask the net basically anything and get a decent answer.
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: drkhoe@nmt.edu (ONID)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: New Mexico Tech
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:12:58 GMT

In article <tmorris.724328508@tasman> tmorris@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:
>>Honda believe it or not is quite effective vs. Bison...
>
>I'm curious... as a non Honda player, what can he do to stop the torpedo
>from close in?  As I see it, Honda has to press the attack on Bison, but
>once you land on the ground, what's to stop Bison just torpedoing straight
>away?  (I'm assuming Bison can slide under the hands to knock Honda over).
>

Bison cannot footslide under the hands...
Well, if Bison tries to cheap, just block it the first time and then throw him
right when he lands...


>--
>Tim Morris
>


-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Computers are bad for you, they cause brain cavities... Even Crest can't help!
"Shouryuken" - Ryu | The piper has lost his way... the mice have ran away!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%---drkhoe@nmt.edu---%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: mlm@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael McCool)
Subject: Re: Bugs on the Classic
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: CSO Resource Center
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:30:52 GMT

renton_c@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz wrote:
: 
: 2. Ken/Ryu - on the car bonus stage Ken/Ryu gets into the car and starts it?
: 

You're kidding, right?

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: SF2 around the globe!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:36:11 GMT

atb@mighty.engin.umich.edu (Adrian Bradley) writes:


>I haven't seen much about Michigan, in particular the Ann Arbor area, so here
>goes...

>U of Michigan has produced some good players, IMHO. We have our usual 
>spattering of good Kens/Ryus that can kill with one slight mistake of the 
>opponent. We also have a devastating Balrog player, a decent Bison, a formerly
>aggressive and wicked Sagat, and even some competitive E-Hondas. Oh, I forgot
>to mention our Zangeifs- once they figured out the SPD, they made all us Kens/
>Ryus mad as hell. I saw a Dhalsim player once, but don't know where he is. 

>As of lately, Blanka's have been falling off, with the better DP'ing and combo-
>ing of our Ken/Ryu people. The Guiles know all the tricks, and any other 
>character that I missed, then I haven't played them in a while. 

>At a local Putt-Putt arcade, the SFII competition has fallen off due to that
>other game (ugh), Mortal Kombat. But they're the usual Kens/Ryu's/Blanka's, and
>a decent Balrog/Dhalsim player.

>I had the chance to go to Space Port about a month or two ago, at the well 
>known UIUC. As it turns out, I didn't get to play any of the people that keep
>posting here, but I did play a jumping Blanka and a different jumping Chun-Li.
>Once I got warmed up with Ken/Ryu, they were defeated...

	You didn't get to play any of the people who post on this board because
	none of us play at the Space Port.  For one thing, the machine is busted	more often than not, plus it costs 0.50 to start and continue.  Space
	Port is the home of the majority of UIUC's SF2 scrubs.  No offense guys,	but you know where the action is.  In the student Union, about a block
	down the street, is where we all play.  If we are ever in Spaceport, it
	is to play classic for 10 rounds or to play strange Guile tricks on one
	another.  Next time come to the Union and introduce yourself, we'll
	be happy to take your money :)

		Seth Killian

>Wish we could get together and have a SFII tournament with all the posters of
>this newsgroup - it would be interesting...

>Peace out from the Dojo...

>_______________________________________________________
>                            __ 
>                             \ \
>                         ____ | | 
>                        |/\|_/ / 
>                    /|__|||/ / 
>                   |---  |  |
>         Adrian Bradley, CAEN Operations
>            email atb@engin.umich.edu
>  "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance..."
>                      | |   > >
>                      | | |-|/ 
>                      | | \/  
>                      |-|
>                      \/
>-------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 10:55:18 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>The flying fierce followed by lightning kick doesn't involve any move
>buffering.  This is just charging the kick while you're in the air.
>For buffering to occur, a move is interrupted halfway through its
>animation sequence by the special move.  The combo as described
>by Cybergeek (or is that CyberGeek?) is more effective because your
>opponent is still staggering from the standing fierce when the lightning
>kick comes out.  There's a fractional delay (correct me if I'm wrong) in 
>starting the kicks when Chunny lands on the ground if she used the aerial 
>charge method that gives your opponent a chance to counter.
>
>--
>Tim Morris
>

Actually, there is no delay if you "charge" her lightening kick in the
air...however, you are correct on your original thought.  It doesn't
interrupt her airial attack (at least, I don't think it does...maybe 
it's subtle).  In fact, I can't think of a single instance where her
lightening kick interrupts anything...instantaneous or otherwise.

In any case, I still maintain it isn't truely combo'able.  I used
the term buffered when I should've used charged...sorry about that.

---Phantom
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:14:16 GMT

In <#4j2lq+@rpi.edu> petitc@nuge115.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit) writes:

>tmorris@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris) writes:

>>>Honda believe it or not is quite effective vs. Bison...

>>I'm curious... as a non Honda player, what can he do to stop the torpedo
>>from close in?  As I see it, Honda has to press the attack on Bison, but
>>once you land on the ground, what's to stop Bison just torpedoing straight
>>away?  (I'm assuming Bison can slide under the hands to knock Honda over).

>  Did you try Honda's down + forward kick (the extend foot kick)?  Or does
>the cheesepedo have priority?

Knowing the cheese, Bison will win the exchange.  My question is which will
win, the 1000 hand slap or the cheese?  If Bison wins this exchange, Honda
can just give it up.
-- 
Brian T Odom

"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
others make excuses."
From: kchchang@remus.rutgers.edu (kai chang)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Even more Bison (was: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death)
Date: 18 Dec 92 07:03:07 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	Not all HK can be thrown.
	If the person follows the HK with a forward sweep, you'll always miss your throw (no matter who you use.  Well, perhaps Z.  But you'll always miss using Delsim)
	I know.  I use to throw people out of HK ALLL THE TIME.  I'm SF player from SF2, where throwing is the ESSENTIAL of the game.  It doesn't work! (not with Ryu, Ken, Vega, or even Dalsim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: Re: Magic throw help please.(I know the de-cuffs)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:00:15 GMT

robs@hardy.u.washington.edu (Robert Suh) writes:

>In article <1992Dec16.002345.45673@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> epasls@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>P.P.S. Another point, I've heard people stating that you can Magic Throw
>Blanka out of the ball, or Honda out of the torp', is it true?  I personally
>think it's B.S., my theory is that you can Magic Throw a Blanka when they
>are standing on the ground, and thus move into the 'magic throw sequence'
>while Blanka is 'balling' your _"throwing" body_. I've done that before, but
>haven't seen a Guile Magic throw someone already in the projectile position

That's probably what they were talking about.. I think you might be
able to do it to Honda if he's way accross the screen when he starts
a slow torpedo, but I don't think the Blanka ball gives you enough time 
to execute it... I have magic thrown Blanka "out of the ball" when
he balls in the middle of the magic throw... He rolls and falls out
while spinning... I think that's close enough to magic throwing
out of the ball for me. :) 

>Anyways...
>.
-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: justin@seas.smu.edu (Justin Anderson)
Subject: Re: Zangief and his throw combo
Organization: School of Engineering and applied science; S.M.U.; Dallas, Tx
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:23:48 GMT

In article <BzGxpB.10q@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>kchchang@remus.rutgers.edu (kai chang) writes:
>	familiarizing yourself with the absolute maximum amount of time Guile
>	can "hold" his charge.  When you have got this, it becomes possible to
>	stand up during a razorkick.  Guile can stand only for a split second,
>	but it is enough to get in a jab or strong punch (standing) before the
>	razor comes out.  This can be used as an additional hit during combos
>	that end with a razorkick.  Plus it looks really cool.  I can't do it
>	at all (did it once) but a couple of the other regulars (Guile players)
>	can do it pretty regularly.  I think that a strong punch is the most
>	damaging move you can do before your charge expires on the razor, but
>	if anyone else has seen something else, please post it.  On classic,
>	I have seen Cybergeek do the standing razor with the fierce backhand,
>	but the backhand does not connect, you just see the first few frames of
>	animation before it is interrupted by the razor.  Looks spectacular,     	even though it does no additional damage.  So yes, you can do a standing	razorkick, but you cannot just walk around the screen with it charged up	so it's mainly just for style points and that extra hit in razorkick 
>	combo's.

    Yes, you can do a jumping fierce, fierce, rounhouse razor kick on both
    the classic on CE of Sf2.  Like you said, it is timing of the joystick and
    buttons that allows you to pull it off.  For me, i push the stick up just
    as im hitting the second fierce, and press rounhouse.  It takes a while tO,
    learn, but on the old SF, it is a dizzy to dizzy combo, and on the new, it
    takes off about as much as his 4 fierce combo.  Anyway, it is possible to do    every time, it just takes Mucho-Mondo practice!  ;-)

    Justin
    justin@express.seas.smu.edu


>		Seth Killian
>
>>	Any of you saw the guy after Bison in the old edition?  rumor said there were one, but never saw one.  Rumor also said that you need to tie with Bison on the second round to see him, but never did either.

  nope!
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: atb@mighty.engin.umich.edu (Adrian Bradley)
Subject: Re: Possible cast list
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:01:17 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: atb@mighty.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec17.054711.7475@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
> now the bosses......
>      Balrog.....Riddick Bowe

Or Mike Tyson, since that's who Balrog looks like...

>      Vega.......(open)
>      Sagat......If Dolph were darker and he didn't look like a Guile,
>                 he could do this role, but.....any suggestions....

How about an NBA Center, say David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Christian Laetner
or "Tha Shaq"

>      Bison......Arnold.
> 
>      Plot:
>        Basically, a Bloodsport type.  Each fighter would grow tired of 
> local competition and sport, yearning for full-contact, winner-take-all
> fighting.  To get around the "who's the good guy" problem....a plot
> twist could be set up where one of the "good" 8 would advance to the
> final rounds and barely win.  But Bison would try to get revenge and an
> all-out mano a mano war would ensue.......|)
> 
> Well.....what does everyone think?  Could it work?
> 

Yeah, it could. IMHO, though I'd like to see them do a cartoon out of it, kinda
like the Transformer's movie. The graphics would be great, the sounds from the
SFII game could be sampled, and they could get the characters to do the exact
same things as on the video game without spending $$$ on special effects (like
Dhalsim's stretching, Z's SPD, or heck, anybody else's special moves for that
matter...

Peace out from the dojo...

_______________________________________________________
                            __ 
                             \ \
                         ____ | | 
                        |/\|_/ / 
                    /|__|||/ / 
                   |---  |  |
         Adrian Bradley, CAEN Operations
            email atb@engin.umich.edu
  "You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance..."
                      | |   > >
                      | | |-|/ 
                      | | \/  
                      |-|
                      \/
-------------------------------------------------------
From: archer@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Zog Archer)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: turbo sf2
Date: 21 Dec 92 06:07:03 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


I'm convinced Guile is just the best. I use him always, but I'm still rather poor at pulling off flash-kicks, especially on the SNES version. Grr.

-- ZOG
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: prock@teetot.acusd.edu (Big A)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: usd
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 07:17:50 GMT


In article <1992Dec12.005522.2774@athena.mit.edu> cyu@athena.mit.edu (Erorppn Xrzavgm) writes:
>I'd much rather fight a Bison than Ken anyday.  If both characters are trying
>to throw while Bison's torpedo is blocked, the blocker almost always wins.
>Bison doesn't have much of a defense vs. jumping opponents like Ken does.
>Ken has 3 things going for him.

I would rather fight an experienced Ken than an experienced Bison. 

>1: Touch of Death (no explanation needed)

Almost never landed if you are a competent player.

>2: Neck kick- just about impossible to block if he mixes it up with normal kicks.

But very easy to throw by undercutting the Ken Player.  By undercutting I
mean walking under and throwing the fool.  BTW Bison also has a Neck Kick
and a seven hit comb, which is a very deadly combination!

>3: Jab dragon punches are almost impossible to attack.  
>   I can't count the number
>   of times I tried to attack Ken after a dragon punch, 
>   only to be dragon punched again.

This is just a matter of timing.  I find it much easier to time 
sweeping a recovering Ken than doing anything besides blocking the
scissor kick (and thus taking slivers of damage).  
>
>Fighting Bison can actually be fun compared to Ken.  Fireballs/sonic booms
>keep him from using his 2 biggest weapons.  And arial throws keep him from
>using his 3rd biggest weapon.

This may be the root of our difference in views.  I take it from your
coments that you are primarily a Guile player.  I am primarily a Ken/Ryu
player.  If the roles were reversed I would probably prefer Bison as
an opponent.  Again evidence that all characters are not created equal.
They are created creatively!

(redundancey reigns).

Andrew Prock 
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2