From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Abraham
Keywords: Ishmael
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:43:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T Migration Systems

In article <kut7j5INN8lt@girtab.usc.edu> jodar@girtab.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.000123.3738@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>In article <45387@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Apr13.150052.19481@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>
>-HR-
>>>>The Israelites, to whom the term "Jew" was later applied (actually from
>>>>Judah), were the descendents of Jacob, later called Israel.  The Torah
>>>>specifically states that Ishmael would found a great nation, but that
>>>>the territory now called Palestine, or Judea and Samaria, would go to
>>>>the descendents of Isaac and not Ishmael.
>
>I find no such passage in my copy of Genesis.  Please see below.
>
>-NI-
>
>Genesis 17:10-14 [The L-rd defines his covenant with Abraham]
>
>"This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you
>and your descendents after you:  Every male amoung you shall be
>circumcised; every male throughout your generations, whether born
>in your house, or bought with your money from any foreigner who
>is not of your offspring, both he that is born in your house and
>he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised.  So
>shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.  Any
>uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his
>foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my
>covenant."
>
>Genesis 17:19-21
>
>G-d said, "No, but Sarah ['Princess'] your wife shall bear you a 
>son, and you shall call his name Isaac ['He laughs'].  I will
>establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his
>descendants after him.  As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold,
>I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him
>exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will
>make him a great nation.  But I will establish my covenant with
>Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this season next year."
>

This is the critical part.  Isaac (Z"L) inherits the covenant and in
response to Abraham (Z"L) praying, Ishmael is blessed by becoming the
father of a great nation.  The twelve princes are the kings of
Ishmael given later before the descendants of Isaac become a people.


>All the men were circumcised, including Abraham and Ishmael
>(PBUT), then, later, Isaac was born, and the L-rd established 
>his covenant with Isaac (he was circumcised on the eighth day).
>
>SUMMARY:  
>
>Looks like the covenant was with all of Abraham's descendents
>except those who did not keep it (were not circumcised).  The
>covenant was established between the L-rd and Abraham and 
>Ishmael (PBUT) immediately, but it was established with Isaac 
>(PBUH) after his birth.
>

As I mention above the covenant was restricted to Isaac and later
to Jacob (Israel) (Z"L) and was confirmed when the Children of Israel
accepted the Torah.  At the end, Abraham has other children by
Keturah (who the commentators say was Hagar who he remarried after
Sarah's death).  The mention of gifts before Abraham dies are part
of the legal process of inheritance.  That is he gave them their
part of the inheritance to show that Isaac was the primary heir and
would get the covenant.  Note that a person cannot pass down the
covenant, but G-d has to confirm it with the blessing.

Ishmael received his inheritance by becoming a great people.  Note
that Ishmael was not buried in the Cave of Machpelah (the pairs) as
that was part of Isaac's inheritance.  Similarly, Jacob and Leah (Z"L)
were buried there.

Another example is given with Jacob and Esau.  The blessing that
Esau would have gotten was totally physical, only later, does Jacob
get the blessing of Abraham and inherit the covenant.

>It is quite clear that the lands mentioned were given to those 
>who were of Abraham's descendents, with those not keeping the
>covenant being cut off from their people.
>
>The muslims believe that the Promised Land belongs to all people
>of G-d.  This is what is in the Bible, and what is in the
>Qur'an.  This opinion is not shared by a large number of Jews.
>
>
>
>-Nick
>
>Missing letters within this article are missing out of respect to
>some readers.
>
>If I have made any errors, I beg Allah (SWT) to point them out to
>me that they may be corrected.  If I have made none, it is only
>through the Grace of Allah (SWT), and all praise be to 'Him.'
>
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