amphetamine reptile records ( or amrep industries ) is a nationally renowned record label which was founded in 1986 by then-us marine tom hazelmyer in washington state , us .

the label is best known for its roster of noise rock artists , and its dope , guns 'n' fucking in the streets series of compilations .

the label also released the debut album by alternative metal band helmet , strap it on , which sold more than 40,000 records .

according to hazelmyer , the success of the album was vital to keeping amrep going throughout the 1990s , as it " helped support the other things that sold less . "

the label was the subject for the 2014 documentary the color of noise , which goes over the label 's origins , some of the bands that made releases through the label , and the current affairs of tom hazelmyer .

amphetamine reptile records

in the rain / spread eagle ( feb . 1996 , amphetamine reptile records )
way of the world / theme ( apr . 1996 , amphetamine reptile records )
nasty dogs and funky kings / hdyf ( nov . 1996 , amphetamine reptile records )
amphetamine reptile records ' tom hazelmyer and
the color of noise
director eric robel .
sugar daddy live split series vol . 2 ( with cows ) ( 2012 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 3 ( with killdozer ) ( 2012 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 7 ( with mudhoney ) ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 10 ( with fantomas ) ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
amphetamine reptile records 1111 washington ave . s . minneapolis , mn 55415 usa phone : 612 - 781 - 6120 email : info @ urltoken [ 1994 ] amphetamine reptile records 2645 first avenue south minneapolis , minnesota 55408
sugar daddy live split series vol . 4 ( with off ! ) ( 2012 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 6 ( with butthole surfers ) ( 2012 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 8 ( with fucked up ) ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 2 : a tribute to venom ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 9 ( with napalm death ) ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 11 ( with king buzzo ) ( 2014 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 12 ( with melvins 1983 ) ( 2014 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 13 ) ( with karp ) ( 2015 , amphetamine reptile records )
sugar daddy live split series vol . 1 ( with u - men ) ( 2012 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 1 : a tribute to the scientists ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 3 : a tribute to the kinks ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 5 : a tribute to roxy music ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 7 : a tribute to queen ) ( 2014 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 6 : a tribute to david bowie ) ( 2014 , amphetamine reptile records )
unsane collegiate t shirt amphetamine reptile sz . xl amrep noise ( 2 tiny holes )
original 1988 halo of flies ' garbageburn ' u . k . amphetamine reptile lp haze xxl
amphetamine reptile records ( or amrep ) is an independent record label which was founded in 1986 by tom hazelmyer in washington state .
list of amphetamine reptile records artists , listed alphabetically with photos when available . this amphetamine reptile records roster includes both past and present artists . popular amphetamine reptile records bands and artists are all listed here with information such as what genre the bands fall under and what albums they ' re known for . if you ' re looking for any of these amphetamine reptile records band ' s full discographies then click on their name and you can find them here on ranker . the artists and bands on this list might be pop , rap , rock , electronic or any other genre , but what they all have in common is that they were signed by amphetamine reptile records .
sugar daddy live split series vol . 5 ( with die kreuzen , necros and negative approach ) ( 2012 , amphetamine reptile records )
early on . amphetamine reptile is also known as amrep industries . it was known for its roster of
how - + + - harry lauders walking stick tree / zodiac ( split with brutal truth ) ( dec . 1996 , amphetamine reptile records )
nine clowns of the apocalypse vol . 4 : a tribute to pop - o - pies / tales of terror ( 2013 , amphetamine reptile records )
if any musical artists are missing from this amphetamine reptile records artists list , you can add them at the bottom of the list . ( 28 items )
they returned to atlantic one last time for 1996 ' s stag , which entered the heatseekers chart at number 33 . the band was eventually dropped by atlantic records that same year . around the same time amphetamine reptile records put out a single every month featuring oddities and covers by the band , culminating in the compilation singles 1 - 12 .
hold true : : bobby hundreds tours the revelation records office by bobby hundreds .
growing up with revelation records : : how hardcore influenced the hundreds by bobby hundreds , including a lookbook of our the hundreds x revelation records collaboration , shot by julian berman .
due to its experimental nature , the melvins took their next album , prick , to amphetamine reptile records . record label conflicts prevented the band from releasing any records under the name
melvins
, so the album was released with the band name written in mirror as
snivlem
though the album is acknowledged as one of their full - lengths . later that year , the melvins released their second album for atlantic in 1994 , stoner witch .
the band would close 2016 with a string of shows alongside redd kross and off ! ( with steven mcdonald handling triple bass duties ) . the band would start 2017 with two shows opening for sleep , boner records announcing re - issues of the solo eps ( with alternate art editions in the works via amphetamine reptile records and a brand new solo ep in the works ) and two more melvins albums in the works alongside the band ' s most recent collaboration in crystal fairy . [ 19 ]
the melvins would release a live album via ipecac entitled sugar daddy live on may 31 , 2011 . it would eventually spawn a split series with eleven other bands in the form of thirteen releases via ammphetamine reptile records over the span of three years .
both goat and roost records were hard - to - find aussie imports until we got our paws on them .
the melvins then released three
solo
eps following the concept and imitating the cover artwork inspired by the four kiss members ' solo albums released in 1978 . king buzzo , dale crover , and joe preston ( joe ' s in particular being heavily drone - based , likely a precursor to thrones . ) were all released in 1992 on boner records . notably the band would also record a single entitled night goat and release it in 1992 , beginning a long - standing relationship with tom hazelmyer ' s amphetamine reptile records .
noise rock label from minneapolis , mn , founded by tom hazelmyer , which was associated with bands like melvins , helmet and boss hog . from the late 1980 ' s to the mid 1990 ' s , many amphetamine reptile releases were licensed and released through glitterhouse records . the format of the catalog number for these licensed releases will have a
arr
prefix and often a efa distribution number , a glitterhouse label code ( lc 8323 ) and contact address ( germany ) .
revelation records’ first release , lower east side crew ep by warzone ( 1987 ) . the white label was a misprint . photo : urltoken
the facetious musical attitudes and approach of both the thrown ups and amphetamine reptile records as a whole is easily summed up by both the title and album art featured on mark arm and steve turner ' s debut amrep single . this 7 - inch was the first non - halo of flies release from amrep , and helped launch the label as more than just a vanity project of tom and hof , as well as establish a creative partnership with mark and steve that continues to this day .
kozik : “peter [ davis ] did an article about my stuff in his magazine , and i started doing stuff for either [ davis’s ] creature booking bands or amphetamine reptile . if i had never gotten the articles in your flesh , if i had never done all the posters for tom’s bands , i would never have achieved a certain level of credibility . ”
the same line - up of spencer , martinez , charlie ondras , jerry teel and kurt wolf recorded the mini - album drinkin ' , lechin ' & lyin ' for the record label amphetamine reptile in 1989 . martinez continued the sexual notoriety by appearing on the cover naked save for thigh - length black leather stilletto boots and arm - length black leather gloves .
the band signed with amphetamine reptile records and released their next full - length album , honky , in 1997 . costing $ 3000 and recorded in six days , it turned out to be revered as one of their most experimental efforts . they recorded an august 1997 concert in richmond , melbourne , australia as alive at the f * ckerclub in 1998 . the same year , the melvins opened for tool . sometime in 1997 , mark deutrom would be fired from the band and replaced by kevin rutmanis , formerly of the cows .
halo of flies was an american noise rock band from minneapolis . named after an alice cooper song from killer , halo of flies was formed in 1986 by tom hazelmyer , john anglim and tim mac . over the next 5 years they released a series of 7 inch singles and mini lps starting with a limited edition , hand numbered single called “rubber room” . these singles were released on hazelmyer’s label amphetamine reptile records and were later compiled on a cd in 1991 . the band partially reformed in 2007 under the name h•o•f , and continued to release new material .
atlanta ' s hard - rocking , southern psychometal trio nashville pussy came to amrep in the last fully functioning year for the label , and their 1998 debut full - length , let them eat pussy , was one of the final big releases of amrep ( until their recent resurgence ) . it was a fitting way to go out , too , with both title of the album , the cover itself , as well as the unbridled kiss - off nature of the songs themselves all totally capturing the irreverent spirit and reputation of amphetamine reptile records . see also : cover story : under the influence of amphetamine reptile melvins record release party . $ 15 , 8 p . m . friday , july 19 at grumpy ' s bar & grill . tickets here . bash 13 . with mudhoney , the melvins , negative approach , die kreuzen , hepa - titus , honky , and gay witch abortion . $ 35 , 12 : 30 p . m . saturday , july 20 at grumpy ' s bar & grill . tickets here .
amphetamine reptile records is a noise rock / grunge / heavy rock label out of minneapolis , minnesota . active since 1986 and run by tom hazelmyer ( halo of flies ) the label gained significant notoriety with minnesota noise rock icons cows and releases by helmet , janitor joe and label regulars the melvins . around that time the label used an
arr
prefix for their catalog and had distribution through glitterhouse . by the 2000s the model would change ( as indicated by their scale catalog numbers ) and their ethos would focus more on limited vinyl with screenprinted covers , selling them just as much for their art as the music .
once nevermind hit radio , heavy indie - rock concert audiences began filling up with the types of hateful “normals” whom fans of weirdo music had spent their lives trying to avoid , so the more dedicated and tribal noise - ists , whose embrace of post - hardcore was less flannel - and - mtv - oriented , dove deeper . and when sub - pop band after sub - pop band kept shooting for the big time , “deeper” meant amphetamine reptile .
fairey , whose amrep work predates his “obey” and “obama hope” empire by a decade : “frank kozik was doing posters for bands i liked , like mudhoney and the beastie boys and the melvins , especially . he had also done posters for some other bands on a label called amphetamine reptile records , and it was the perfect fusion of subversive pop art , psychedelic art , and punk rock . i think the first one i saw was a helio’s creed poster with lee harvey oswald being shot , but holding a microphone . frank kozik made something like 200 posters in a year , and i thought , ‘man , i’ve gotta get off my ass . ’”
“30 years later , [ revelation records is ] still putting out vital music… maintaining a legacy that’s ripe to be discovered by new audiences ready to get tangled in their family tree . ”
the band relocated to columbus , oh , in 1996 and is still active . they played their 20th anniversary show on sept . 1 , 2007 . they have released several albums on in the red records .
this week , grumpy ' s downtown hosts a celebration of one of minneapolis ' s most influential labels , amphetamine reptile . bash 13 features a wealth of artists associated with the label over the years , including mudhoney and the melvins ( who play an album release show on friday , as well ) . this week ' s city pages cover story goes in - depth into the label ' s beginnings , and includes plenty of commentary from mudhoney ' s mark arm , melvins frontman buzz osborne , and amrep founder tom hazelmyer .
the melvins also have a lineup called melvins lite ( buzz , dale , and trevor dunn ) that toured through parts of 2011 , performing songs with double bass including a handful of songs not typical in a melvins setlist . this line - up released an album entitled freak puke on june 15 , 2012 on ipecac recordings . the four - piece lineup remained active as well and released a digital ep , the bulls and the bees , in march on scion a / v ( with a vinyl edition via amphetamine reptile ) .
tom hazelmyer was a founding member of halo of flies as well as , more notably , the proprietor of amphetamine reptile ( amrep ) , the greatest record company in the history of the world . home of such infamous and wonderful noisy rock bands as the cows , helmet , tar , lubricated goat , king snake roost , hammerhead and a jillion others ( see urltoken for a full discography ) , amrep is unfortunately now a label of the past . but that doesn’t mean we can’t all get together and remember it fondly ! remember the
the greatest labels in music history are the ones that tell a story and suck you into their catalog . blue note , motown , stax , rough trade , factory , dangerhouse , touch and go , def jam , dischord , sub pop , amphetamine reptile , death row , no limit , and others are more than just businesses that pressed vinyl records , cassettes , and compact discs . each of those labels provided a voice to a place and time that not only resonates today , but explains a part of the history of culture . they also all share the bond of starting independently , creating their own playbook out of growth , necessity , and aspiration . though they all bear deep catalogs , you can extract a “sound” or even “sounds” from each , and that story has more currency than any major label .
— records ( abgekürzt : amrep ) war ein us amerikanisches plattenlabel , welches in den 1990er jahren platten von bands wie helmet , den melvins und helios creed veröffentlichte . geschichte amrep wurde 1986 von tom hazelmeyer ( „haze xxl“ ) in washington… …
sometime after the band ' s relocation they would record and ultimately release ozma in 1989 . the album would notably be produced by future bassist mark deutrom and also be notable for being the first of many releases on boner records . tom flynn would fill in on bass for the band ' s first tour in 1990 when lori was out with health issues . in 1990 , the band recorded bullhead , which marked a slower , more drone music style for the band . the melvins would do three tours of the united states that year ( at some point boner records owner tom flynn would play a handful of shows with them filling in for lori . ) . in 1991 , the band toured europe for the first time . their january 23 , 1991 show in alzey , germany was released by your choice records as your choice live series vol . 12 . when they returned to the u . s . , they recorded the eggnog ep , which was released the same year on boner records . lorax would depart from the band shortly after .
like so many indie labels in the ’80s and ’90s , minneapolis - based amphetamine reptile was started by a guy for the sole purpose of putting out his own band’s records . in this case , the guy was a marine named tom hazelmyer , and the band was halo of flies , an angry , in - your - face punk trio with a large chip on its shoulder . after three halo singles ( released in 1986 and 1987 ) , hazelmyer started issuing seven - inches—and , eventually , full - lengths—by similar - minded outfits such as the thrown ups , the god bullies and the u - men . by the early ’90s , amrep was the premier label for all things aggressive , with a roster including hard - rocking stalwarts helmet , tar , surgery , boss hog and helios creed . what sub pop had become for grunge , amrep was for noise . ( the word was even incorporated into the label’s logo . )
when nirvana ' s nevermind became a massive success , the melvins were one of many groups to benefit from nirvana ' s support . they were signed by atlantic records , and their first major label release , 1993 ' s houdini , entered the billboard heatseekers chart at 29 .
the group that most personified amphetamine reptile was the cows , a minneapolis quartet that could make you laugh , cry , puke and crap your pants—all during one of its gloriously bizarre sets . ( suffice it to say , if you didn’t enjoy being kicked or having food—or worse—thrown at you by the band , you didn’t want to be in the front row at a cows gig . ) led by shannon selberg—who , when not shrieking like a mental patient , added bugle and trombone to his group’s manic mix—the cows released all but the first of their nine albums on amrep . 1992’s cunning stunts was the band’s best lp , as it added some much - needed structure to the cows’ unrelenting anti - pop noise .
“as far as i remember it , warzone was talking about breaking up , and we thought it was something that should be documented , ” cooper says of revelation records number one . “as far as figuring out how to do a record , that was something ray had dealt with before when his band violent children did their 7” and the hardcore scene kind of had a collective knowledge of how everything like that would get done . it seemed like most of the other hardcore labels around got their records done through kane boychuck who worked at a pressing plant in los angeles . we met kane when youth of today toured with 7 seconds in 1985 because he did the pressing for positive force—kevin seconds’ label—which included the first youth of today record . when revelation needed records pressed a couple of years later , ray reached out to kane and that’s how the first couple of releases were pressed . as far as artwork goes , i worked at the school newspaper and had access to the typesetting machine so raybeez and i worked on the layout by phone and mail mostly . ”
to be sure , as “the color of noise” attests time and time again , it’s no stretch to see that what hazelmyer has created could have a similarly lasting impact . just listen to kozik , fairey and coop tell robel , who discovered amrep records as a young vinyl - collecting musichead growing up in baltimore , what hazelmyer has meant to their careers .
on both the
never breathe what you can ' t see
and the
pigs of the roman empire
records , we did both those records at the same time because biafra can ' t get out of bed . he can ' t get to the studio before about six in the after . so what we would do is we would get there about 11 and we would work on lustmord ' s stuff ' til about six in the afternoon and then biafra would show up and we ' d work on his stuff until about 11 at night . that ' s what we would do . we ' d shift gears and that ' s how we recorded both those albums at once . ”
and here’s the trailer . if you’re going to be in nashville around the end of the month , the debut screening is scheduled to be held at third man records on may 30th . if you’re just dying to know more but can’t wait , an official blog has been documenting the process of making the film , and this hazelmyer interview is top - notch .
cappo was already active , having played in several bands including violent children , reflex from pain , and youth of today . this allowed cooper to assume the role of operations and production , while cappo was the charismatic personality who secured the talent . ok , that’s an overly sexy description , but it was very much the dynamic . with their first release lined up , the next challenge was figuring out where to press the actual records and how to distribute them , other than at shows , which was especially challenging , since their first release was a 7” from a band that was allegedly breaking up . there was no defined model or pipeline other than taking out ads in fanzines and asking shops to take records on consignment , only to end up having to chase money . distributors ? huh ?
in october 1986 the melvins recorded gluey porch treatments at studio d in sausalito , california . the album was released in 1987 on alchemy records and is considered a landmark in the sludge sub - genre . not long after the release of gluey porch treatments , osborne and crover would relocate to san fransisco , california and recruit lori black ( clown alley ; daughter of film icon shirley temple . ) while lukin stayed in washington to join mudhoney .
flame rite came out of my collecting old 50’s advertising zippos since i was a teenager and wanting to make my own . when we did make an amphetamine reptile one , we could not keep ‘em in stock . from there we took it one step further and decided to make the zippos that would have us salivating if we walked into a store . so i hit up artists i’d been involved with through the label like coop & kozik , and started the ball rolling . the scorched art book through feral house was from having been friends with adam for some years . he headed up the s . w . a . t . release on amrep years before . i really wanted to do an art - based book and he was the obvious choice . also now with hundreds of companies using the same pool of artists to make cool stuff i wanted it documented we were pretty much the first to do so . actually predating flame rite was the research & development series that paired new bands with new “lowbrow” artists , which we started in 1991 . some of the artists like chris mars , kozik , coop have gone on to be founding fathers of the “juxtapoz” movement .
“we were working on the 7” and duane from some records and dylan ( walter from gorilla biscuits’ brother ) decided that they wanted to start a label and thought they should put out the gb 7” , he says . “dylan called me and asked if i minded if they put it out instead of us and i said , ‘sure , no problem . ’” once ray heard about that , he was incredulous and called walter and made sure we were going to do the record . ”
your choice live vol . 12 • salad of a thousand delights • tora tora tora • alive at the f * cker club • live at slim ' s 8 - track tape • colossus of destiny • a live history of gluttony and lust • the end • melvins vs . minneapolis • pick your battles • endless residency • sugar daddy live • melvins live at third man records • around the usa in 51 days : the movie ! • the colossus of destiny : a melvins tale
recorded immediately after they severed ties with atlantic records , melvins get really fucking weird on honky , their second full - length released on amrep ( after 1994 ' s prick ) . the band are all over the musical map on this adventurous album , perhaps reveling in their newfound freedom from major - label expectations , as sludgy drone experiments sit fitfully alongside creepy electronic numbers and brazen , balls - out punk rock . it ' s an audacious musical statement from a band who has been making them for years .
amrep eventually began releasing records by groups that didn’t fit into the noise genre , including chokebore , gaunt and nashville pussy . during each month in 1996 , the label issued a new single by the melvins ( who had released the deliberately obtuse prick on amrep in 1994 under the moniker snivlem ) in editions of 800 , then compiled all 12 on cd the next year . in 1999 , amrep put out its last record while functioning as a working label : a single by the heroine sheiks , selberg’s post - cows band . since , hazelmyer has done a handful of limited - edition seven - inches by billy childish , pre - hold steady outfit lifter puller and others . the most notable of them is a one - sided single of the melvins covering halo of flies’ “spit it out . ” what makes it notable ? the fact that the melvins don’t actually appear on it ; it’s simply halo of flies playing one of its original songs . which goes back to the reason why hazelmyer started amrep in the first place : to put out his own band’s records .
starting in 1990 , the label released a flurry of eps and lps that filled in the voids and spaces that merge , matador , or even sub pop weren’t catering too , with both post - hardcore records and modern hardcore , simultaneously . in a few short years , the bands on the roster that remained active , most notably judge and gorilla biscuits , had become headlining acts . gorilla biscuits specifically were a bit of a breakout for revelation . “there are certain bands that have a kind of excitement about them that is hard to really put into words , ” he says . “gb is one of those bands . ”
the band took a break for over two years , whilst spencer concentrated on the blues explosion , prior to emerging in 1993 with a new , stable line - up of spencer , martinez , jurgensen and hollis queens . the new line - up recorded the girl + ep with martin bisi . it met with some critical acclaim , especially for lead track
ruby
, and proved to be a turning point for the band ' s fortunes . they went on to sign a deal with david geffen company . a joke band biography that was circulated by geffen records fictitiously claimed jurgensen came from swans , which is often misreported as fact .
founders ray cappo and jordan cooper felt a near - obligation to preserve the upstart sounds of the new york hardcore scene , which was running hot , while the first wave of american hardcore was starting to fragment and explore new sounds . without a single label truly representing the region , revelation records quickly became the most important new york city vinyl producer for hardcore , while being based in connecticut . at a time when new york was still recovering from economic strife , where the scene was lacking any order other than its unifying sense of camaraderie and passion , it made perfect sense that new haven was a more stable setup for a start up .
the band took a break for over two years , whilst spencer concentrated on the blues explosion , prior to emerging in 1993 with a new , stable line - up of spencer , martinez , jurgensen and hollis queens . the new line - up recorded the girl + ep with martin bisi . it met with some critical acclaim , especially for lead track
ruby
, and proved to be a turning point for the band ' s fortunes . they went on to sign a deal with david geffen company . a joke band biography that was circulated by geffen records fictitiously claimed jurgensen came from the swans , which is often misreported as fact .
while blackout and urban style’s contributions are essential chapters in nyc’s story , revelation became the label synonymous with this next iteration of hardcore , as the records slowly became available en masse and through co - branded band merchandise bearing the label’s logo . with matinees happening regularly both in new york as well as in norwalk , ct at the anthrax club , revelation’s presence grew , especially as touring bands frequented the east coast and vice versa . even if it were simple “west coast weekends , ” the bands were following youth of today’s rigorous lead , finding time to tour on school breaks or working disposable jobs in order to tour the us and later europe , where few us punk bands ventured .
in 1985 , c / z records was created to document the washington music scene upon which the label would release deep six , featuring the melvins alongside malfunkshun , green river , soundgarden , u - men and skin yard . in 1986 the band released their official debut relase on c / z in the form of six songs . the album was recorded live to a two track at the now closed ironwood studio in seattle on 8 february 1986 . eventually six songs would be expanded on into what is described as a
bogus lp
by osborne as 10 songs in 1991 . the melvins would tour in 1986 with rkl in what buzz said
wasn ' t a very good idea .
. [ 2 ]
more highlights abound : we learn that hazelmyer discovered helmet , the new york noise boys who inspired a post - nirvana major label bidding war , via twin / tone records’ jill fonaas , who heard the band’s demo tape and passed it along to hazelmyer . god bullies singer mike hard comes off like a jacked - up pulp fiction writer and preacher gone to hell and back and back again . the footage of hazelmyer’s band halo of flies performing their last show in europe is invaluable , as are the interviews with the many musicians who talk candidly and angrily about the heroin abuse that permeated the punk and grunge subcultures of the day and claimed the lives of amrep artists kristen pfaff ( janitor joe ) and sean mcdonnell ( surgery ) .
founded in 1987 in new haven , connecticut , revelation records was able to spread the narrative of the neighboring hardcore punk bands in new york city , but not through an urban lens . with much of nyc still in economic turmoil , independent labels in , especially thoughts tangential to punk were hardly sustainable or able to fully support a roster of bands . fledgling singles were released , as were compilations , but the lifespan of most labels was just a few years . with one toe in manhattan and another in new haven , revelation was able to not only provide an outlet for a crop of bands in the tristate area to shine , but also a platform for them to spread their sound and message globally , one small pressing at a time .
a label “sampler , ” especially for a punk label , is key—not only because it’s a lower production cost and functioned as a commercial for the entire catalog , but it’s an affordable entry point for a fan . without the benefit of streaming , you’d be able to actually hear an upwards of 10 or even 15 bands for the price of one lp , exponentially increasing your palate , while still staying on budget . for new york city , compilations basically created the holy trinity or trifecta of the late - ’80s , starting with together / the way it is , blackout records’ compilation “where the wild things are” and urban style’s cassette release “the new breed compilation ( 1989 ) , ” with every borough , style , and even westchester and connecticut being represented .
“revelation’s success came simply from the fact they cornered a wide - open market that was being neglected in the hardcore scene at the time , ” explains author and writer tony rettman , who wrote 2014’s critically acclaimed nyhc : new york hardcore 1980–1990 and a fan of the label since its inception . “other than maybe wishingwell , there were no record labels at the time showing this utter dedication to the second—or whatever number you wanna put on it—wave of straight edge . and since wishingwell kinda spun out of control after the release of break down the walls , it left rev as the only label on the block . they cribbed some notes from the ww marketing scheme by making t - shirts and making that a big part of their package . they really were selling a lifestyle in a way . wear the shirt ! listen to the records ! belong ! ”
while the “sound” of early revelation records is more united by the ethos of the bands than the actual chords , the overarching message was what was so magnetic to city and ‘burb areas alike . bands such as youth of today , sick of it all , gorilla biscuits , judge , side by side , and warzone were not just inspired by the first wave of american hardcore , they tapped back into that energy with their own unique imprint and voice , rather than letting that spirit and verve fizzle out . most of the labels such as dischord , touch and go , and sst had abandoned releasing straightforward hardcore years before revelation had formed—but that didn’t mean there was no audience for it . in fact , the new audience centered in the northeast was in some ways more diverse , networked , and larger , thanks to the blue collar inroads made by the first generation .
as the decade turned , several of revelation’s artists started to see their runs winding down . three years in hardcore was typical , five years was epic , and anything more was almost longer than the genre itself , so you break up or form something new . for some of rev’s original bands , new translated into actual innovation , creating new genres and factions , loosely lumped into “post - hardcore . ” for the label , it was also a transitional time , as cappo had broken up youth of today for seemingly the last time to pursue his hare krishna faith , later forming shelter and equal vision records as vehicle for the message . cooper moved the operation to huntington beach , california , where they still maintain operations and ultimately grew into a business , including a distribution network . most importantly , the new setting and cappo’s departure became a catalyst for one of revelation’s most successful periods .
revelation achieved acclaim by being present and supporting the ideas of their network . when underground music became a quest for the next cobain , rev was an incubator , with quicksand , into another , orange 9mm , civ , sense field , and shades apart all securing major label contracts . and when a third , fourth , or whatever wind of hardcore came back in the mid - ’90s , revelation records was there to release it , alongside the new noise happening around them—to this day , they continue to do so . in the 2000s , when hardcore suddenly became “ok” for labels too “mature” to release it initially , revelation was still sticking to their playbook , releasing new bands ( hardcore and non - ) , as well as keeping old titles in print , curating expansive reissues , while maintaining a massive distribution network for outside labels , albeit with a small respite from pressing vinyl . 30 years later , they’re still putting out vital music , but more importantly , they’re maintaining a legacy that’s ripe to be discovered by new audiences ready to get tangled in their family tree .
in 1998 , kevin rutmanis would join the band after deutrom was fired . the melvins would record a multitude of albums in the next couple of years in the beginnings of a long - standing partnership with mike patton ' s label ipecac , notably the trilogy ( 1999 ' s the maggot and the bootlicker along with 2000 ' s the crybaby which featured multiple guests such as j . g . thirlwell , hank williams iii , kevin sharp , david yow , bliss blood and tool to name a few . ) . colossus of destiny , a live show from 1998 was intended to be the third part of the trilogy , ended up being put aside in favor of the guests album though it was released in 2001 . around the same time as the trilogy recordings the band would work with mike kunka for an album but this album would not be finished or released until 2016 when kunka approached the band to finish the album . electroretard would come out around the same time in 2001 on the now - defunct man ' s ruin records , featuring re - recordings , covers and two of the songs from the interstellar overdrive ep .
that being said , this was still a diy business in the late - ’80s , when no one took what was considered a dead genre seriously—especially 10 years removed from the johnny thunders - romanticized bowery . conversely , revelation’s early acts weren’t about excess , but rather a lean model of ( mostly ) straight edge leaning bands , bent on message over madness . initially , the singles and 12”s were predominantly sold via mail order , with the majority of the early adopters being rewarded with limited colored vinyl pressings of said release . not only did the records sound urgent , but their simple , bold layouts were equally direct and powerful . in a stroke of accidental marketing , most releases were accompanied with order forms for other releases as well as t - shirts , stickers , and sweatshirts . with no way to hear these bands , save small college radio stations , it was worth $ 3 . 50 post paid to gamble on the catalog . serving as the pu - pu platter was the label’s first compilation , later repurposed and expanded into an lp , providing the gold standard snapshot of new york city , titled new york city hardcore : the way it is .
i think there was only one instance of me refusing to release a record . it was love 666 who midstream decided they wanted to take their advance and record a pure white noise lp . it was the only time in the decade plus where i gave bands 100 % creative control that it came back to bite me in the ass . i know the purists out there will be aghast with that decision , but they never have to write the checks for manufacturing and promotion on a lp you’ll sell 2 copies of , and with limited resources it’s not a hard choice to make . they then went back in the studio and cut “please kill yourself so i can rock , ” which i thought was amazing . i can’t think of any band that evolved in a direction i didn’t care for . chokebore’s last lp that they did a year or two ago was the most sedate and least like their amrep debut , and one of my favorite recent records by anyone . the only reason amrep and chokebore parted paths ( on friendly terms ) was their refusal to tour the u . s . and their shrinking presence as a result . i was recently asked about bands i didn’t sign and wish i had , and honestly none come to mind . i never passed on a nirvana that went on to do amazing shit that i know of .
7” compilations ? oh , i do indeed ! we all do ! but in retrospect , they were right . and by “they , ” i mean “he . ” and by “he , ” i’ve finally gotten back to the point . tom hazelmyer agreed to an email interview in mid - september 2005 , and i was just the guy to do it . which is fortunate , since i’m the one who asked . my questions are in bold print ; his answers are in regular .
i’ve always had a problem with musicians , artists , actors and others from the arts using public platforms to spout off politically . i personally find the opinions of my plumber , bartender , or accountant more informed and rational . let’s talk about the most dysfunctional group in america and i’m supposed to turn to them for guidance and knowledge ? that’s fucking laughable . that said , whatever microscopic sliver of celebrity / notoriety i ever achieved , i’d be a hypocrite to do likewise . we’re sitting in a bar , gloves are off and it’s another story . i may slip up once in a while and spout off in a format like this , and when i do , i’m an asshole too .
everybody had something better to do ( ha - ha ) . basically the same friction that created a sense of energy and dynamic to the band that i think made us stand out , also made it impossible to be a long - term thing . gear jammer lasted about 10 minutes , and that was long enough for me to realize i wasn’t able to mine the same vein without the other 2 flies . also during halo’s the label became more important to me than the band , and i didn’t see how you could split time effectively to give both 100 % .
no . if i liked it , then i considered it amrep worthy . i honestly never thought of our sound as that singular or confined , but at some point you have to deal with that as a reality when the entire music world thinks that’s the case . also started running into bands that would hesitate out of concern for being lumped in , as no original band wants to be pigeonholed . on the second part of your question , no but i wish i had . for biz reasons solely we should have become the helmet label , and only worked with bands that were ripping off helmet . i would have likely wound up with that whole late 90’s generation of bands like limp bizkit that still owe page hamilton “influence royalties” and sold millions of units ha - ha . i would be talking to you from poolside in beverly hills instead of from an office above a small bar in northeast minneapolis . unfortunately my a . d . d . - based “been there , done that” attitude always got the best of me .
6 . how did it make you as label owner feel when a band would decide to leave amrep for ' greener pastures ' ? ex . tar going to t & g ; , gaunt signing to a major , etc . did this hurt your feelings personally or did you just see it as a natural business progression ( or big mistake ? ) ? were there ever hard feelings ? and one last semi - question : did you agree with interscope that helmet had a chance of being the next nirvana ? or was it just a pipe dream ?
it depends on each incident and how it was handled . with tar it really pissed me off as at that moment in time amrep could do everything touch & go could ; we had the same sized staffs and capabilities in promotions and distribution . i felt it was a lateral move based solely on their chicago - based worship of albini and touch & go , that i felt did not take into account that i had busted balls for them when touch & go was nowhere to be found and had literally passed on them . once they started making headway , and at that moment in time things were looking good for them , here comes corey rusk to make ‘em an offer . it was also the first time it happened which made it sting all the worse . basically a public vote of no confidence from a group of guys you considered friends and allies . later on i came to better comprehend band dynamics and realized that the label was at the top of the list for being sited as to why any given band hadn’t sold a million copies . if they ever get to the point where they’ve blamed the manager , label , booking agent , etc . and finally come to realize that they themselves have something to do with what’s stopping their march to mass acceptance and recognition , odds are they aren’t long for this world . by the time unsane did damn near the same thing i was far less emotional about it , and even getting to say “i told you so” held no interest . with helmet we actually worked together to achieve their move as we found with limited staff we were quickly devoting a majority of our time to one band and they obviously far outstripped our abilities . as far as them being the “next nirvana” i never thought of it that way , but they came damn close . with a band like gaunt , it was always understood that the release we did was a one - off . with others like servotron when they left for lookout , i willingly tore up the contract as it made sense and we’d given it a shot with limited success and i saw the logic in them trying to make it through a completely different channel . i was usually very reasonable about these things for the most part , and in the back of mind knew i never wanted to force a band to work with me . how shitty would that make day - to - day life . it’s a hard enough business even without excessive in - house fighting and sniping .
pretty much always was interested in the graphics . it was one of the key elements that drew me to punk rock in the first place . i was every bit as enamored of the graphics of say jamie reid for the sex pistols or danzig with the misfits as i was the music itself . i loved how a chrome record had such a distinctive look that seemingly matched the vibe laid down in the grooves . folks have to realize that the opposite was true in the mainstream at the time . go look at a toto lp cover and realize that the graphics in the music world at the time were as dismal as the music they were pumping out . so when you saw something as stunning as early gang of four graphics or early hardcore it was a one - two punch combo . my biggest regret was that i wish i had been able to devote more time to the process . i used to joke that a majority of the graphics were a result of the “fifteen minute school of design” as at times it felt like that was all i could spend on stuff when running the rest of the operations as well . as a result there wasn’t enough time to be as thoughtful as you envisioned in the question .
best sellers , not really sure exactly . helmet , melvins , cows , boss hog , unsane most likely up there . melvins should make the above list , but by the time we started working together they had firmly created their own independent identity .


marvel illustrated is a marvel comics publishing imprint specializing in comic book adaptations of classic literature .

each novel 's story is told in the form of a limited series , the issues of which are later collected as a trade paperback .

writer roy thomas has adapted many of the titles ; the imprint is also known for its six adaptations of books from the land of oz series , all done by eric shanower and skottie young ; and its four adaptations of jane austen novels by writer nancy butler .

marvel illustrated

marvel illustrated books are comics produced in a paperback - novel - sized format .
thomas said he would love to work with gully again on another marvel illustrated project . while it’s not his decision , he offered a few suggestions from the stevenson collection .
legendary writer and former marvel editor - in - chief roy thomas is reteaming with young gun talent mario gully on their second robert louis stevenson adaptation for the marvel illustrated imprint as the publisher presents , “kidnapped” later this year .
marvel illustrated is an imprint from marvel comics for comic adaptations of classic literature . each novel ' s story is told in the form of a limited series , the issues of which are later collected together as a trade paperback .
you can take marvel comics out of this book , but you can’t take martin goodman out of marvel comics and have any confidence at all that there would still be a marvel comics .
a new marvel illustrated epic begins here ! painter basil hallward has done a portrait of a strange subject - youthful dorian gray , a man with a mysterious and tangled history . the young man broods on . . . more
in a sharp departure from its usual target audience , marvel comics is courting the literary and educational crowd with marvel illustrated , a new imprint devoted to adapting classic literature into comic books . since its launch in may 2007 , it has transformed titles like the last of the mohicans , treasure island and the three musketeers into comics miniseries , with many more on the way . roy thomas , a comics legend and former english teacher with a long resumé of comics adaptations , currently writes the marvel illustrated titles . thomas ; david gabriel , marvel sr . v - p of sales ; and marvel associate editor nicole boose talked with pwcw about taking the classics to the comics shop market and beyond .
the way i see it , if these marvel illustrated have a purpose besides giving roy thomas an easy line of work , it ' s exposing today ' s youth to classic stories they might otherwise be too lazy to read . i ' m still a youth , by some standards at least , and i ' ve always been too lazy to read homer ' s the iliad all the way through . therefore , marvel illustrated : the iliad # 1 is perfect for me . theoretically anyway .
guidebook to the marvel cinematic universe - marvel’s agents of s . h . i . e . l . d . season two ( 2016 )
guidebook to the marvel cinematic universe - marvel ' s agents of s . h . i . e . l . d . season one ( 2016 )
guidebook to the marvel cinematic universe - marvel ' s agents of s . h . i . e . l . d . season three ( 2016 )
marvel masterworks : atlas era strange tales vol . 4 ( 2010 - 2011 )
a new marvel illustrated epic begins here ! painter basil hallward has done a portrait of a strange subject - youthful dorian gray , a man with a mysterious and tangled history . the young man broods on how unfair it is that he will age and his portrait will remain ever young . he wishes with all his might that it were otherwise - and in some bizarre , magical way - it is ! this is a novel of dark wonders brilliantly brought to life in the heralded marvel illustrated style . rated t + . . . $ 2 . 99
a new marvel illustrated epic begins here ! painter basil hallward has done a portrait of a strange subject - youthful dorian gray , a man with a mysterious and tangled history . the young man broods on how unfair it is that he will age and his portrait will remain ever young . he wishes with all his might that it were otherwise - and in some bizarre , magical way - it is ! this is a novel of dark wonders brilliantly brought to life in the heralded marvel illustrated style . rated t + . . . $ 2 . 99 more
excellent illustrated guide . i ' ve been a huge black panther fan for most of my life and as such i have been exposed to most of the art in this guide at one point or another .
marvel ' s black panther : t . . . has been added to your cart
marvel universe ultimate spider - man vs . the sinister six ( 2016 - present )
marvel ' s guardians of the galaxy vol . 2 prelude ( 2017 - present )
“i love comics . i love drawing comics and ant still remains to be my favorite character . and i seriously doubt that will change . but working on ‘marvel illustrated : treasure island’ and now ‘kidnapped’ has really been , and continues to be , a thrill ride for me , ” said gully .
i understand what kirby’s role was at marvel . and being an artist myself , and knowing how the marvel method worked , i also have a pretty good idea what contributions kirby made .
there’s no frickin’ way marvel’s revenue in 1969 was $ 15 million . do the math , people .
this is a brief history of marvel comics in the style of an informational graphic . it ' s only appropriate that the history is illustrated because - - and i don ' t know if you knew this or not - - but marvel actually produces comic books . so like , there are pictures in those too . but that ' s not what ' s important , what ' s important is that marvel used to own the rights to the word zombie . zomg ! could you even imagine owning the rights to a gem like zombie ? ! you ' d be like a gazillionaire . unfortunately marvel doesn ' t anymore , which is why they got bought by disney .
marvel universe hulk : agents of s . m . a . s . h . ( 2013 - 2014 )
he also understood intellectual property only in the narrowest of business senses : he paid writers and artists once for their work , and then the content was his to print or reprint . ( the reprinting of formative 1960s marvel superhero comics in marvel tales and marvel’s greatest comics , was a simple goodman manoeuver to sell more sheaves of paper , but those reprints broadcast those tales to another generation of readers , sowing the seeds of the marvel “mythos . ” )
david gabriel : both dan buckley [ president of marvel publishing ] and i have fond memories of the classics illustrated line from when we were kids . we’ve been coming up with ideas , formats and stories that will bring in new readers to comic shops and expand our reading audience . we’ve been asked repeatedly by librarians , book buyers and other fans of the aforementioned classics line to bring back a line of classics .
goodman was no dummy , which is why he sold magazine management company ( which included marvel comics ) when he did .
lexus presents : marvel ' s agents of s . h . i . e . l . d in the chase ( 2014 )
i’ll note that the fact that “sale was for more than just marvel” and that “comics were a small percentage of the business” undercuts robert stanley martin’s arguments for martin goodman’s sagacity . because if true ( and i accept this is true ) then goodman sold marvel comics for less than $ 15 million . how “small” is “a small percentage” — it must be less than 50 % at least . so goodman sold marvel for $ 7 . 5 . million or less . if by “small percentage” we mean 30 % or 20 % then goodman sold marvel for less than $ 5 million .
castle of frankenstein # 12 carries a jan . 1968 date on the contents page . the recent stan lee universe book claims “this interview first appeared in 1965’s castle of frankenstein # 12 . note how it was so early in the marvel age that the cover bills it as an “interview with marvel comics . ” apparently whoever wrote that comment isn’t very observant because the blurb on the cover reads “interview with marvel comics’ stan lee . ” urltoken
there’s no denying kirby was a critical part of marvel’s silver age success , but he was also part of a substantial team that was just as important .
based on those 1987 numbers for a full - page ad , marvel was charging $ 2 , 907 per million circulation for 6 . 5 million readers .
but let’s talk about the downs again . in 1995 , marvel lost approximately $ 48 million and laid off 275 people , approximately 40 % of their workforce .
the business model you claim to be a success isn’t . marvel comics as a comics publisher isn’t a ‘house of ideas’ anymore . that ended when kirby left .
the iliad by homer told in an eight - issue comic series published by marvel comics . the set was collected into a trade paperback and a deluxe hardcover edition .
a very quick bing search gave me a dan adkins quote about wood’s marvel pay when he went there in 1964 . adkins says that marvel’s then starting pay was $ 20 per page for penciling , $ 15 for inking , and that wood , being wood , got their top pay of $ 45 for both ( after having received mad’s top rate of $ 200 a page ) . whether that makes marvel’s top page rate for penciling $ 25 or $ 30 or something else , it doesn’t specify .
whenever anyone gets angry about the way kirby was treated by marvel , rsm tries to remind them that marvel was only playing by the rules as they then stood . his stance is neatly summed up by a comment in in a post he contributed to another tcj article : “if you disagree with me , go talk to a lawyer” .
marvel’s circulation in 1968 was about 4 million per month , so if we make that the baseline , the 1987 cost for 4 million is $ $ 11 , 628 .
people can play the game of desperately seeking loopholes all they want in an effort to deny that about kirby . the fact remains that this was found to be the business relationship between him and marvel by a federal district court judge and reaffirmed unanimously by the three judges who reviewed the determination on appeal . the judges found the situation so unambiguous that there was no point in having a trial . the efforts by the kirby heirs to terminate marvel’s copyrights in the foundational marvel publications was essentially declared a frivolous nuisance action .
but the fact remains that without the stage that goodman provided for kirby ; and without stan’s soap opera writing style , savvy editorial chops , and rah - rah marvel boosterism ; and without the contributions of ditko , heck , lieber , ayers , sinnott , simek , rosen and everyone else ; there would have never been a marvel age of comics .
2 . you claim that when jeet and others argue that marvel and / or dc should or could make things right , their desired outcome has no chance of ever being enacted .
and while people find it fashionable these days to denigrate goodman , without his money and motivation to publish , there would have been no marvel age of comics . he made the decision to keep the doors at marvel open after the staggering bankruptcy of his distributor in the late 1950s , opting to invest the remainder of his money each month rather than sitting on his bankroll and retiring . and by keeping marvel in play as a viable company , goodman not only paid kirby a decent wage , he gave him a worldwide stage with which to perform his miracles .
do you know anything at all about marvel’s licensing income from 1968 ? does anyone ? why isn’t it common knowledge . worse , why the hell hasn’t anyone even tried to find out ?
“…i’m firmly of the view that kirby and his estate ideally would be receiving royalties from marvel from the licensing and so forth . if he’d come along 20 years later , they would be…”
when marvel went corporate , the price increases suddenly came like clockwork every few years or so . why ? because in a corporation , the focus is always on increasing profits to appease shareholders .
“honestly , i’m a professional . i should be able to handle any project that comes down the pipe and make it look like i’ve been drawing any particular time period or subject matter for years , ” explained gully . “i’m not saying that i’ve arrived at that point . but , that’s my goal . when i broke into this industry , i was , and for the most part still really am , known for drawing ‘ant , ’ and some had labeled me a t & a artist . now , i’m on my second marvel illustrated series . i think that shows at least that i have more potential and diversity than some comic fans give me credit for . ”
marvel as a company has had dramatic ups and downs over that time . by the mid - ’70s , less than ten years after sheldon feinberg had purchased the company from goodman , he was actively looking to completely shut down the publishing operations . according to james galton , who became marvel’s president in late 1975 , the company lost approximately $ 2 million during the first half of that year . just about every knowledgeable observer , from sean howe on , is of the view that had it not been for the success of marvel’s star wars movie adaptation , the publishing operations would have ended in 1977 .
marvel’s recent success is due to movie adaptations that until about 15 years ago were not technologically possible . in many instances , the technology necessary to make them was developed with the specific projects in mind .
what do you consider a just settlement ? providing a middle - class pension ? marvel can do that , and that’s exactly what they did do for roz kirby after jack kirby’s death . shortly after the avengers movie was released , jim starlin was apparently able to negotiate a settlement with marvel that he’s very happy with . he didn’t even have to threaten legal action to get it . they’re not unreasonable .
i’ve never claimed kirby was ‘poor’ , he worked hard for a living and made a good wage . he was unfairly… no , he was cheated by marvel . i think we both agree on that .
all of this book’s research and content is very welcome , and it comes at a good time . sean howe’s recent marvel comics : the untold story ( 2012 ) provided an authoritative history of marvel comic books ; this book expands our understanding of the publishing industry context in which those comics were produced , and it gives us an unprecedented portfolio of non - comic book art from some notable comic book artists .
kirby worked six – seven days a week to produce 60 pages and three covers a month , down from what he at one time had to do at marvel to make that kind of money – upwards of 100 pages a month . he wasn’t a machine . he wasn’t a hack . his creative output was vital to the only real sustained successful run that marvel comics had ever had up to that point .
i suspect that goodman did miss being a publisher . don’t know how much of his starting up atlas in the ’70s was motivated by revenge on marvel and stan lee for having given son chip the boot .
( so , marvel didn’t offer health insurance to its employees , mostly freelancers ? there are plenty of far wealthier companies which don’t . doesn’t mean it’s right , merely that the company is hardly uniquely evil . )
marvel rates weren’t static during the 1960s — particularly the pencils . they apparently went up significantly between 1962 and 1970 . that makes sense , particularly with the company’s dramatic rise in circulation during the same time period .
“…i’m firmly of the view that kirby and his estate ideally would be receiving royalties from marvel from the licensing and so forth . if he’d come along 20 years later , they would be…” ( emphasis added . )
for the record , jack kirby should have lived his late years and died a multi - millionaire . yet it’s easy with marvel movies taking in hundreds of millions in the box office , to forget that kirby’s entire oeuvre , was for most of its existence virtually unknown to the public at large , which would have dismissed it as disposable kiddie fare . that in that span , as a corporation , marvel was hardly a behemoth .
and paul , what you fail to realize is the only part of kirby’s relationship with marvel that i’m discussing is how he was treated while goodman was the owner . after 1968 , goodman no longer called the shots .
of all the charges i’ve seen leveled at goodman , the only one i think he may be guilty of is promising secondary royalties to one or more artists for the “marvel super heroes” cartoon series , and then not delivering .
your assertion that kirby was owed ownership in marvel is what’s totally absurd here — and kirby , who himself had worn the publisher’s hat , would be the first person to tell you that , if he were still around .
i do know that without kirby , there would not be a marvel universe , and there wouldn’t be all that profit from the movies . it seems morally repugnant that money wasn’t shared , and credit was not properly given .
it would be nice if every person wanting to add some perspective on the business side to the “kirby vs . marvel” debate were not automatically tarred as a “defender of corporate exploitation , who believes that artists should be bled try”…
kirby was paid 60 $ a page in 1968 ? can i have a source please ? it was my understanding that 1 ) it was less than that , certainly in the beginning 2 ) dc paid more than marvel .
and steranko , in an interview by gary groth in fantastic fanzine # 12 , explained the economics of the comics business at that time . most marvel books were clearing about $ 1 , 000 in profit after costs were deducted .
it’s really two books in one , both a step removed from comic books . the first is a beautifully illustrated , 100 - page monograph on the history of martin goodman’s business operations and publications , excluding comic books . the second is a 170 - page anthology of black - and - white pulp / magazine illustrations by comic book artists who appeared in goodman’s non - comic publications , including jack kirby , joe simon , alex schomburg , bill everett , carl burgos , syd shores , and many others . who knew that artie simek was also a cartoonist ? !
oh , and kirby did not have health care benefits at any point while working for marvel comics ( it’s a fact that’s been mentioned by everyone from jim shooter to mark evanier ) and when he left marvel comics in 1970 , he was making $ 35 , 000 , still as a freelancer ( still with no contract ) source : ( braun , saul ( may 2 , 1971 ) . “shazam ! here comes captain relevant” . the new york times magazine .
i even threw you a research bone , on the off chance you were really serious about truly understanding the economics of silver age marvel . i pointed out above steranko’s 1970 interview that patrick ford linked to , which corroborates my theory .
@ r . maheras . “i repeat , for a given issue , kirby’s take was more than the publisher’s . ” again , this would only make sense if the economic value of any given marvel comic was discrete , and only existed on an issue - by - issue basis . but marvel comics featured continuing characters existing in a shared universe . you might want to dismiss kirby as just one cog in the wheel , a part of the “team” but there is ample evidence that he was the creative heart and soul of that team , the driving engine without whom the marvel universe would not exist . if you are not familiar with that evidence , charles hatfield provides an excellent summary of it in his book hand of fire .
kirby had the option of participating in marvel’s health insurance plan per his 1975 contract . if he didn’t sign up for it that’s on him , not marvel . given his income from that contract–approximately a quarter - million a year after adjusted for inflation–he should have been able to afford private insurance if marvel hadn’t offered it . jeet doesn’t know what he’s talking about . oh , and calling hanna - barbera or ruby - spears “bottom - of - the - barrel” animation studios in the context of a discussion about business and compensation is really off - base . they were probably the two biggest producers of tv animation in the country at the time , and all accounts i’ve seen are that they paid the people who worked for them quite well .
this is not the full story - when it says ' first chapter ' it doesn ' t mean that the odyssey is the second chapter - it literally means , you only get the beginning of the iliad . or at least that ' s all we got . . still not sure because the listing says : collects marvel illustrated : the iliad # 1 - 8 . - but there are no numbers on the book to let us know if we just got 1 and there are books 2 - 8 out there . the story itself and the pictures are as the other reviews say , very well done and true to the original . but we thought we were getting the entire story . very disappointed by that . wish the listing was more clear . edit - still don ' t know if there are more books , but the seller refunded .
by your metric , you would have been saying in 1976 that sheldon feinberg made a bad buy . and in the late ’90s , you would have been saying goodman was really damned lucky to have gotten rid of marvel for the money he did .
infographics ( informational graphics ) are all the rage these days . it clearly points out that people don’t like reading anything unless there are pretty pictures involved . well , in continuing with the trend here’s a history of marvel comics infographic style . there’s some cool information on here that maybe some of you didn’t already know . i for one didn’t know that at one time marvel owned the rights to the word zombie . i now own it , and anyone that uses it owes me a cupcake . cupcake or gtfo !
the sale was for more than just marvel . it was for all of magazine management , including puzzle books , cheesecake mags , and so forth . i gather the comics were a small percentage of the business , although they’re the only part that’s still around .
at the risk of my own sanity , i’ll weigh in , here . i appreciate you fighting valiantly to keep the record straight , jeet . man , it’s hard for me to understand why any informed person today would want to defend marvel’s treatment of jack kirby .
and that $ 35 , 000 pay figure cited in 1970 equates to $ 211 , 000 in today’s dollars . figure out how many pages and covers he penciled his last year at marvel , and you can get a pretty good idea what his page rate was .
marvel treated him like shit . they didn’t even treat him ‘like anyone else’ . they treated him like shit . for what he did for them , for what he did for comics… i hope goodman burns in hell , and i hope stan lee follows him there .
i’d agree with most of the figuring russ maheras has done about industry economics circa 1968 . so , the real argument to be made is that goodman sold marvel a few years too soon , that he should have waited for the licensing , movies , and other things to start to take hold . but aside from a few dinky tv series , like the hulk , and movie of the week types of movies for characters such as dr . strange , there were no movie franchises for a very long time to showcase the marvel characters . i’d wager that the big budget movies jump started the value of the other licensing rights , although not the circulation of the comics themselves . and goodman would have had to wait a very long time to see marvel explode into a corporation worth four billion dollars to disney . so , while the sale of marvel for fifteen million in ’68 sounds like peanuts , it really wasn’t all that bad a business move . it made a nice little nest egg for goodman in his retirement , one which he later squandered to a certain extent by publishing atlas comics in the seventies .
there wasn’t much money coming in from licensing back then , either . for example , in 1976 the television rights to spider - man , the hulk , and ten other characters proved to be worth all of $ 12 , 500 to marvel . that’s what universal paid for them .
regarding comic book economics , i just laid the groundwork above for answering a lot of questions about silver age marvel . perhaps one of these days some enterprising young historian will nail down the available data i cited , plug in the numbers , and see how close my estimates were .
dennis culver is a writer and artist whose work has been published by marvel , dark horse , boom , stela , and oni press . you can find out more at www . dennisculver . com . he lives in los angeles with his feline best friend / worst enemy , flirtcat .
this review starts out very wisely stating for all to hear that captain america and marvel comics per se do not appear in this book . this is the rare pulp art from the myrid of companies that were the predecessor to timely / marvel comics . the artwork is dramatic , dark , and in some cases , borders on the good side of porn . there are clear examples of good girl art , bsdm and bondage , but it’s all in documentation of this long gone period when men’s periodicals were just “accepted” and they fueled men’s fantasies before playboy and penthouse came along .
nicole boose : we started with last of the mohicans because it ' s a boyhood favorite of our ceo , alan fine . from there , we’ve come up with the ideas internally , and there really hasn ' t been any shortage of excellent suggestions coming from all over the marvel office .
the richest element of this book may be its muted , conflicted call to start caring about martin goodman , at least a little bit . to see him as a limited , determined businessman and family man – a classic 20 th century striver – without whom there would likely be no marvel comics .
a blogger named nick caputo recently posted a cut from a june , 1968 issue of a fanzine called on the drawing board which announces the sale of marvel to martin ackerman the owner of perfect film , and curtis publishing . that would seem to place the sale in april or may of 1968 .
goodman sold out right at peak glut time in 1968 . smart move for him at the time . he would not have lived long enough for marvel comics to enter the movie biz . the technology to make the movies properly buh - leeve - able was not yet invented till the 21st century .
the cover of this book depicts captain america leaving the building . he’s not in the book , nor is the history of “marvel comics” as such , aside from some brief cameos . what’s actually in the book partly corresponds to its subtitle : “jack kirby and the moonlighting artists at martin goodman’s empire . ”
or , if you want to argue that captain america , the human torch , and the sub - mariner ( three different creators ) are intrinsically better than the 179 early masked heroes that we’ve forgotten , then maybe martin goodman knew how to choose winners . maybe he is the indisputable “creator” of marvel comics .
now , beginning in 1979 , marvel’s publishing fortunes improved . however , the licensing was still hit and mostly miss . but after ten years of consistent growth , ronald perelman’s andrews group purchased it in 1989 for $ 82 . 5 million . adjusted for inflation , that’s approximately $ 155 million in today’s dollars .
and no one at that time knew the marvel characters had any long - term value . i’m sure that , based on previous historical comic book cycles , most ( including kirby ) felt the superheroes boom was a fad – a fad to be milked until it faded and the next one ( hopefully ) rolled in .
oh , and if marvel was so obviously valuable , why didn’t disney buy it back during that bankruptcy period , when they could have most likely paid a lot less than the $ 4 billion they spent in 2009 . sony and time - warner both looked into the company at the time and decided it wasn’t worth taking over .
marvel was selling 50 million comic books a year in 1968 , and while that sounds impressive , once one examines the financial realities of comic book publishing during that era , in most cases , for successful books , goodman was actually making a pre - tax profit that was less than he was paying his creative staff on each title .
kirby had a lot of creative guidance and a lot of input from stan in the early stages of the marvel silver age . there may even have been some directives from goodman — directives that stan couldn’t argue his way out of . and regardless of what pages were turned in , lee wrote the dialogue and orchestrated the editorial direction .
evanier : kirby’s page rate just before he left marvel was the same as romita’s . actually , in a way , it was lower because romita had a staff job that paid him a salary per week so he was paid for the time he spent in story meetings with stan or doing redraws on his work , whereas kirby was not .
here as elsewhere , the book stumbles over its false premise – that it is a book about marvel comics . this absent center disorganizes the book’s intent , judgment , and structure . it obscures a story that would have been better told – would have required a better telling – if captain america really had left the building on the front cover .
in that issue , in gary groth’s interview of jim steranko , groth asked about page rates . and steranko , who was doing freelance work for marvel at the time , was quite candid ( as he was during the entire interview ) . after thinking out loud a bit , he finally concluded , “fifteen dollars to a hundred dollars a page .
the goodman monograph itself is both gratifyingly researched and frustratingly delivered . as a meticulously researched history of goodman’s business undertakings and of the publications that came out of them , no more could be asked of the authors . this is a missing piece from the history of 20 th century american publishing and , yes , marvel comics . thank you , gentlemen .
as for goodman , i think you can see his regrets in the fact that he started another comics company after he left marvel as publisher . even then , it was probably less dissatisfaction in the price he got than that he missed being the owner more than he thought he would , and wasn’t as avid for retirement as he thought he might be .
true , you can embark upon a flight of fancy to muse “there could be no lolita without its publisher” or “no marvel age without its publisher . ” but by the same such flight , one could also wonder “what if some different publishers had come along and boosted such creative artists even further ? ” so that’s truly a dead end in the reasoning department .
as for the perceived value of comic book properties by low - end publishers , herewith a little story . i have it on good authority that when charlton finally closed down their comics business and sold most of it to dc , they calculated their price by charging $ 10 a page for the film . this was maybe 15 years or more after goodman sold marvel .
i can only speak for myself , but i’m firmly of the view that kirby and his estate ideally would be receiving royalties from marvel from the licensing and so forth . if he’d come along 20 years later , they would be . but that’s not the case . all we can do is try to understand the business and legal circumstances dictating the way things are .
marvel was printing 20 books a month , probably averaging 200 , 000 copies per issue ( 4 million pages – comichron . com ) compared to some fly by night start up publisher’s one issue at 20 , 000 copies who was going to get muscled off the sales racks anyway… . the price per page to print was considerably higher for the new guy . considerably higher .
the saga of marvel comics as intellectual property gets weirder , once you see goodman’s decision making , issue by issue , title by title , year by year . he had no respect for others’ intellectual property , insofar as he was a blatant imitator and published works to which he had no rights . he created a maze of separate companies to divide up his legal and financial risk .
maybe these things are easier in hindsight but history did show that marvel’s uniquely intricate mythology was potentially a great moneymaker , and the signs that it could be were there in the successes of the late sixties ( james bond , the batman tv show ) as was a dedicated marvel fanbase and a sense that they had already captured part of the cultural zeitgeist . my impression is that their relative lack of success in other media before the superhero movie boom of the 2000s had a lot more to do with a series of crummy deals than any serious problem with the technology at hand . hollywood has done well with effects - driven films and fantastical characters for as long as it’s been in business , and the effects are always laughable until they’re sold with some storytelling flair .
second is a simple diagram of three smaller gears all turning as a result of the initial larger drive gear . each of the three smaller gears represent archie , dc / national and timely / marvel and clearly show how each of the three major comics publishing houses stemed from the apprentiship of the parent publishing effort at the start of the industry . it’s very illuminating in its simplicity .
as for goodman’s creative ( as opposed to financial ) contribution , i’ll note that prior to kirby’s arrival , timely / atlas / marvel specialized in being a knock - off house . if horror was big , they did horror knock - offs ; if archie was big , they did archie knock - offs , if mad was big , they did mad knock - offs ; when superheroes were big , they did superhero knock - offs . but it’s in the last case that the story changes , because suddenly and for the first time marvel started doing comics that were more than shallow knock - offs , comics that had originality and worth . it seems like goodman’s original instructions were something like “do a justice league knock - off or a challengers of the unknown knock - off or even a sea devils knock - off . ” but the comics that kirby and lee created were more than knock - offs . the x factor that made them different was kirby . he was incapable of being an imitator . everything he touched had his own touch . that’s why he made marvel comics a qualitatively different company that before . and that’s why his creative contribution was far more important than goodman or lee .
instead , we know him as the first person to refuse marvel comic book creators a share of the accumulating value of their creations . as he always had , he regarded the properties he’d bought as his own , and then he sold all the important ones for less than the value of ant man . from the lofty perch of 2014 parent company disney , martin goodman was as clueless as jack kirby .
an aside : i believe goodman sold magazine management company ( which included marvel ) when he did because he was certain the industry - wide comic book circulation jump , driven by the batman tv show , had peaked . i don’t think he realized what he had in his relatively new stable of characters , and he probably figured the superhero boom had peaked — much they way it did following world war ii .
“if you’re going to fault goodman as a businessman you wouldn’t point to the sale of his company so much as the sucker deals he made with the movie business or people purporting to be in the movie business , which debased the value of the company for years to come . ” i agree with this . or to reframe it slightly one could argue that marvel was undervalued for many years because it lacked both the capital and expertise to fully develop its most valuable asset ( the intellectual properties mainly created by jack kirby and steve ditko ) . the buying - and - selling of marvel took place against this background of under - capitalization . it’s only recently that it’s been in the hands of people who have the resources to fully develop the intellectual property ( fully develop in terms of profit , not of course in terms of aesthetic value ) .
and before patrick or someone else chimes in with , “b - b - b - but stan lee lied about who created the characters , ” the issue of who originated what was completely irrelevant to the judges’ determination . it didn’t matter any more here than it did in the marv wolfman suit , where there was no question that wolfman created blade and so forth . as the district court judge said in the kirby decision , “ [ t ] his case is not about whether jack kirby or stan lee is the real ‘creator’ of marvel characters , or whether kirby ( and other freelance artists who created culturally iconic comic book characters for marvel and other publishers ) were treated ‘fairly’ by companies that grew rich off the fruit of their labor . it is about whether kirby’s work qualifies as work - for - hire under the copyright act of 1909 . ”
they wouldn’t have had access to national advertising ( or even have been published nationally ) , so individual printing plates for every page would’ve had to be created for this new book… whereas a back page ad on 20 marvel comics would’ve had less plates made that could’ve been used for multiple books . considerably more expensive . did wood even publish ads in witzend initially ? i know later there were some local convention ads and such , but… .
“naturally , i pull a lot of my inspiration and tricks from what i already learned on the first adaptation , ” said gully . “i still have to do a lot of searching on the net to get the right elements in a particular scene , and the marvel editors and roy really has this stuff down . they steer me in the right direction when i draw a ‘dirk’ as a gun instead of a knife [ laughs ] . ”
what is unreasonable is the expectation that proprietary rights are negotiable , or , in general , that multi - million dollar payouts are possible . you are talking about a publicly traded company . they have a legally mandated fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to work in those shareholders’ best interests , which means maximizing the monetary return on the shares . giving up ip rights or parting with large cash sums is asset forfeiture . marvel cannot voluntarily do that .
nb : teachers , parents and librarians have been responding very well so far . i haven ' t had much of a chance to gauge the reaction of traditional marvel fans , but i ' d love to get more of their feedback , whether it ' s positive or critical . someone from the office recently told me that our treasure island adaptation was one of the best they ' d seen , and i thought that was really flattering .
of special note are two illustrations near the extreme end of the book , near the references . one shows a staggered , tiered skyscrapper , with various cubes and butresses supporting the larger blocks…all labled with names of martin goodman’s various companies… . all leading upward toward timely and ultimately marvel… what this is based upon , what research or examination of the facts remains to be seen…but the collossal imagry is great , showing how complex a publishing world he operated .
given that we’re talking about these subjects from a business standpoint , there’s a crucial difference between nabokov and kirby’s situations . regardless of the degree of editing nabokov may or may not have been subjected to , at the end of the day he was a principal in an author - publisher business partnership with olympia press . jack kirby , regardless of the extent of his contributions , was a for - hire pieceworker employed by marvel to help put together company publications .
it & apos ; s time again to break down the convoluted history of a comic book character in the recurring segment we call comics , everybody by curt franklin and artist chris haley of let & apos ; s be friends again . today & apos ; s subject : cable , one of the best known marvel comics characters from the & apos ; 90s , and currently preparing for his big return in next week & apos ; s avengers : x - sanction # 1 .
beyond that , i’m not defending the companies beyond trying to explicate their actions . one cannot understand a conflict unless one understands where both sides are coming from . there has been no effort to understand why marvel or other companies take the actions they do beyond the assumption that the people running them are eeee - vil . life is more complex than a daredevil - vs . - the - kingpin adventure story , and my position is that we should start treating it as such .
the real story in this book , then , is about an early - to - mid - 20 th century industry ( periodical publishing ) , and about a very old - school , first - generation american , family business entrepreneur . he was obtuse about art , practical about the periodical market , and good at making money within a very narrow understanding of his opportunities . marvel comics was one result , an accident of market demand that he managed to meet , and indeed fuel .
alex schomburg is another interesting case that is well documented in this book . he’s best known for his immaculately precise and detailed comic book covers during the world war ii period – many of them for the “marvel” line – and thereafter for his painted science fiction work . he , too , was a prolific pulp artist , though his work veers from the seemingly hasty to the very deliberate . he produced a lot of primitive torture - porn illustrations , as well as more sophisticated splash page layouts .
but i don ' t care that this is a largely bloodless issue so much as i care that it ' s flat out boring to read . the first eight or nine pages might as well be an illustrated version of the wikipedia entry for all the care and effort that went into them . thomas essentially glosses over the kidnapping of helen and the march to war with a glut of narrative captions . when the story properly begins in the second third of the issue , the trojan war has already been waging for nine years . i ' m willing to label this as a huge error in story pacing , even though the adaptation has another five issues to go . even when thomas slows down and throws some actual dialogue into the story , things don ' t get much better . the iliad # 1 shares another problem with the ill - inspired troy . the reader is given little reason to believe helen is beautiful or charming enough to inspire a thousand ships to chase after her . this is as much a failing of the art as it is the writing . the characters are all rendered in a very bland style , and you may have some difficulty in distinguishing most of agamemnon ' s captains from one another .
in addition to all of the timely , atlas , and marvel comic books ( through 1967 ) , goodman published multiple titles in nearly every mass audience periodical genre for four decades . he was a captain of industry when it came to volume of product and conformity to the prevailing trends . as a result , this generous collection of goodman covers and interior art is also a substantial survey of mid - century mass audience periodical history – reflecting the changing appetites of the public and corresponding trends in magazine illustration and design .
i’m sorry but saying “martin goodman sold the company for considerably less than he should have” is almost synonymous with saying he sold it for a pittance . so the argument you are having is with yourself . as for the ups - and - downs of marvel’s history , i think the washington post analogy holds . it was a long time after the 1933 purchase that the washington post became really profitably , decades before it became the powerhouse paper it became in the 1970s . still , it’s fairly standard to say that eugene meyer got it for bargain basement prices and to admire those who had the foresight to buy stock in the company early ( warren buffet’s decision to buy stock in the washington post in the 1950s or so is often cited as an example of his foresight . if buffet had bought marvel in circa 1969 for $ 15 million , that would have become another part of legend of buffet’s sagacity ) . you can complain all you want about “tropes” but you shouldn’t be surprised why someone might think that $ 15 million in 1969 or so was a low price .
but we’ll never see that happen again , because the business model you claim to be a success is actually such a drastic failure for comics , it’s left a hollow shell of a hobby for marvel’s ‘house of ideas’ . no one creates anything anymore . it’s all rehashed same old same old . why ? because of what happened to kirby . they know better than to give great new ideas to a thief . so what we get is tired , boring retreads of ideas repeated ad nauseum , dressed up in variant covers and story promises , and cluttered store racks…
the history is past , nothing can be done about it . the real question is , is there any way that kirby’s heirs could be allowed to share in what their father created ? would marvel , or disney , ever settle with the kirby estate as a gesture of goodwill , once the dust has settled on the legal action ? the odds are not good , but it’s an avenue that needs to be encouraged by keeping the issue out front . so that despite the fact that the past is the past , the future is not doomed to be the same .