navigenics , inc. was a privately held personal genomics company , based in foster city , california , that used genetic testing to help people determine their individual risk for dozens of health conditions .

navigenics

navigenics ' s ceo , vance vanier , currently has an approval rating of 29 % . navigenics ' s primary competitors are
navigenics . the science behind the navigenics service . 1 ( 866 ) : 1–13 . urltoken . accessed 20 january 2011 .
owler has collected 16 screenshots of navigenics ' website since apr 2012 . the latest navigenics website design screenshot was captured in aug 2017 .
navigenics currently has 73 fans on facebook . as of july 2013 navigenics had 52 fans . that ' s a 40 percent increase in 5 years
navigenics provides personal genetic testing and analysis services . navigenics is a private company . vance vanier is the ceo of navigenics and has an approval rating of 29 from owler members . kleiner perkins caufield & byers , mohr davidow ventures , and sequoia capital are some of navigenics ' s investors . navigenics ' s top competitor is 23andme , led by anne wojcicki , who is their co - founder & ceo . navigenics has 693 followers on owler .
23andme is the biggest rival of navigenics . 23andme is headquartered in mountain view , california , and was founded in 2006 . like navigenics , 23andme also operates in the biotechnology space . 23andme generates 89 % the revenue of navigenics .
since navigenics was founded in 2001 , it has participated in 2 rounds of funding . in total navigenics has raised $ 43 . 0m . navigenics ' last funding round was on nov 2007 for a total of $ 25 . 0m
navigenics currently has 3 , 110 followers on twitter . as of july 2013 navigenics had 3 , 229 followers . that ' s a 3 percent decrease in 4 years
mari baker , chief executive of navigenics , said she was satisfied with the outcome .
navigenics’s $ 1 , 000 service offers only health - related information , not genealogical data as 23andme’s does . navigenics also offers genetic counseling to help people understand their test results .
check out 7x7 ' s hot 20 under 40 profile with navigenics coo , sean george .
navigenics provides personal genetic testing and analysis services . navigenics was founded in 2001 . navigenics ' headquarters is located in foster city , california , usa 94404 . it has raised 43 . 0m in 2 rounds . the latest round was in nov 2007 . some of n . . .
i agree with many comments here… but i don’t agree that navigenics has got it all wrong .
a genetics test on the navigenics web site that allows consumers to check their risk for different diseases .
none of that information , however , was picked up by salvia samples examined by navigenics , eng said .
navigenics is a personal genomics company that uses genetic testing to help people determine their individual risk for health conditions .
navigenics has employees and is the sixth highest among it ' s top 10 competitors . the top 10 competitors average 96 .
family tree dna is navigenics ' s # 2 competitor . family tree dna is a private company that was founded in houston , texas in 1999 . family tree dna is in the personal services field . family tree dna has 47 more employees vs . navigenics .
complete genomics has been one of navigenics ' s top competitors . complete genomics ' s headquarters is in mountain view , california , and was founded in 2005 . complete genomics is in the health care technology industry . complete genomics generates 108 % of navigenics ' s revenue .
navigenics ' s revenue is the third highest among it ' s top 10 competitors . the top 10 competitors average $ 3 . 4m .
on the other hand , navigenics listed eight men at risk for prostate cancer when their family history predicted a risk no higher than average .
23andme did not immediately return calls friday afternoon . navigenics confirmed it had received a letter . navigenics chief executive mari baker said her company continues to process orders from california residents because
to the best of our knowledge , we are in compliance
with state law . navigenics uses a doctor to transit orders and review results , and it relies on a state - certified lab testing company to do the gene tests , baker said .
this test was navigenics compass vs family history in 22 females with breast cancer , 22 males with prostate cancer and 44 people with colorectal cancer .
the president and ceo of navigenics is mari baker , formerly an executive - in - residence at kleiner perkins caufield & byers , one of the lead investors in navigenics . baker was previously the president of babycenter llc , a website for parents - to - be , owned by johnson & johnson .
essentially , to buy the navigenics service , you have to be convinced that talking on the phone to navigenics’ pet counsellors will give you $ 2 , 000 worth of value that you couldn’t gain from the detailed online information provided by 23andme or decodeme – and then there’s the annual $ 250 subscription fee on top of that .
risk categorizations for 20 complex conditions included in navigenics personal genome testing were compared with risk categorization estimates derived from family history assessment using the kappa ( κ ) statistic .
navigenics’ annual insight service retails for $ 499 and analyzes an individual’s genetic predisposition for ten common health conditions ( nine each for men and women ) , including breast cancer , prostate cancer , colon cancer and heart disease . the service will be available to consumers through participating health care providers or directly from the navigenics website with genetic counselor support .
navigenics issues press releases about important partnerships , genetic testing innovations , and other business developments . these include a partnership with mdvip , a medical education program with the . . .
on its website , navigenics states : “we believe that you are the owner of your genetic data , and it is our responsibility to safeguard that data while helping you apply it to improve your health . navigenics will maintain industry - leading physical , electronic and operational procedures to safeguard the integrity and security of all personal genetic data and related information . ”
navigenics , inc . helps educate and empower individuals and their physicians with knowledge of their genetic predispositions , and then motivates them to act on the information to prevent the onset of disease , achieve earlier diagnosis , appropriately manage disease , or otherwise lessen its impact . navigenics ' lead investors are kleiner perkins caufield and byers , sequoia capital and mdv - mohr davidow ventures .
in my own experiments , i compared results delivered by several online genetic testing websites : 23andme and navigenics , and also iceland - based decodeme . my results for heart attack produced three different overall heart - attack risks–high from navigenics , medium from 23andme , and low from decodeme . i found several less - striking contradictions for diabetes , macular degeneration , and other traits .
new york ( genomeweb news ) – life technologies has acquired consumer genetic testing firm navigenics , the carlsbad , calif . - based company announced after the close of the market on monday .
“it is more effective to partner with a medical institution rather than do an end - run around them with a direct - to - consumer model , ” said vance vanier , navigenics’s chief executive .
along with family health histories , the researchers used personal genome scanning tests from the company navigenics to identify whether or not someone has a higher risk for breast cancer , prostate cancer and colorectal cancer .
nearly five months after 23andme dropped the price of its genome scan service from $ 1000 to $ 400 , personal genomics competitor navigenics has made its own foray into the lower - cost genetic testing market .
moreover , using targeted genotyping means that you can’t simply check your results whenever a new region of the genome is associated with one of these diseases ( as you can , in many cases , if you have genome scan data ) – instead , you’d have to pay to get another test done . alternatively , you could take advantage of navigenics’ offer to “upgrade to the comprehensive navigenics health compass package” – yay !
among the executives appearing in the introductory video on the company’s website is stephen fodor , founder , chairman and ceo of affymetrix . spokesperson andrew noble of affymetrix confirmed that the company is a technology partner of navigenics .
we have been working with the navigenics team for quite some time and we are pleased with the quality of their approach to bring the power of genetic technology to personalized medicine ,
said noble .
ms . billingsley said the companies also satisfied the requirement for a doctor to be involved . navigenics already was paying a physician to review customer orders and now it appears that 23andme might be doing something similar .
to learn more about navigenics and influence your genetic
fate , ” visit urltoken . 7x7 readers can get tested for $ 499 ( a savings of $ 500 ) through november 30 , 2009 by using code 7x72009 .
new york state also has taken action against at least 31 genetic testing companies , saying they cannot solicit business from new york residents . ms . baker of navigenics said a resolution with new york did not seem imminent .
navigenics recently raised a total of $ 18 million from two venture capital firms — mohr davidow ventures and kleiner perkins caufield & byers — as well as procter & gamble , which views “wellness” as a priority area for future product development .
a new california - based start - up named navigenics , boasting some impressive managerial and financial backing , has just outlined its basic mission – to provide individualized genetic health profiles to help consumers “develop a plan for wellness and prevention . ”
as blaine notes , the issue is mainly with the wording – it makes it sound as though navigenics thinks it is generous to offer access for “an entire year” . this is of course absurd given that its competitors offer unlimited access .
ms . baker of navigenics said a resolution with new york did not seem imminent . “we do think in the end this needs to be regulated at the federal level rather than as a patchwork of state regulations , ” she said .
the licenses , granted to navigenics and 23andme , should help defuse a controversy that began in june when the california department of public health sent “cease and desist” letters to the two companies and 11 others that offer genetic testing directly to consumers .
navigenics , which successfully applied to have its test licensed in new york , has now essentially put aside marketing to consumers , aiming instead at doctors . it is also courting corporations that might use the test as part of their employee wellness programs .
for the seven diseases analyzed by the researchers , only about half of the risk factors provided by 23andme and navigenics agreed for the five patients . for instance , for lupus and type 2 diabetes , three of the five subjects received conflicting results .
add to that , navigenics also wanted to offer disease related testing ( i’m leaving the question of clinical utility aside here since the only people who have thought usefully about that are the decode folks , and apparently not the navis , 23s , etc . )
the estimated numerical lifetime risks for each condition , as calculated by navigenics pgt , are grouped into three categories : “less than general population” risk , “general population” risk , or “greater than general population” risk . navigenics categorized risks into the “less than” or “greater than” categories if the risk was ±20 % as compared with the general population lifetime risk . for the purposes of directly calculating agreement between pgt and family history risk categorizations in this study , the “less than general population” pgt risk group was collapsed into the “general population” risk category .
navigenics has always been the most expensive of the three mainstream genome - scan companies , despite offering essentially the same product as competitors 23andme and decodeme : a genome scan examining between 500 , 000 and a million sites of common genetic variation , known as snps . while its competitors charge a one - off fee of $ 400 ( 23andme ) or $ 1 , 000 ( decodeme ) , navigenics whacks its customers with a hefty $ 2 , 500 up - front fee plus a $ 250 annual subscription for its flagship product , health compass .
the state won ' t identify which companies were mailed letters until it confirms those firms have received them . but high - profile gene testing companies that operate in california include 23andme , founded by the wife of a top google billionaire , and navigenics , based in redwood shores .
whether the consumer genomics services are indeed medical tests or — as 23andme contends — merely informational , is not just a regulatory issue . it is a business question , too . and the two leading companies in the business , 23andme and navigenics , have different views of the matter .
the top 10 competitors in navigenics ' competitive set are 23andme , family tree dna , complete genomics , reprogenetics , recombine , on - q - ity , genomic express , courtagen , gnubio and gene by gene . together they have raised over 850 . 5m between their estimated 973 employees .
to find out , the cleveland clinic ' s eng recruited 44 people — 22 patients in her family cancer clinic and their spouses — for a family health history and a saliva test from one of those genomic services , navigenics , to calculate their risk for colon cancer and breast or prostate cancer .
digging deeper , the researchers found that some of the individual risk factors were strikingly different . for psoriasis , 23andme reported a risk factor of 4 . 02 ( four times greater ) for one individual , while navigenics reported only a 1 . 25 risk factor ( 25 percent greater ) , a threefold difference .
23andme cofounder anne wojcicki and navigenics cofounder david agus both agree with the recommendations . “there is a distinct need for transparency and quality in genetic association studies , ” says agus . “we are giving critical information to individuals to help them with their personal health . that information needs to be correct , or we have done a disservice . ”
“well , that’s because it comes with a time limit – the navigenics web - site says your $ 500 buys you “ [ a ] ccess to your genetic test results for an entire year . wow , guys , you get to look at a tiny fraction of your own genome for an entire year before your access gets revoked ! ”
california ' s move follows a crackdown on online gene testing firms by the state of new york , which sent warning letters to a number of firms , including 23andme and navigenics . california said its investigation followed a number of consumer complaints .
the consumers were unhappy about the accuracy [ of the tests ] and thought they cost too much ,
a spokeswoman for the department said .
stephan , who was a bio - it world “best practices” winner in 2005 , runs one of the largest high - throughput affymetrix genotyping centers in the country . in the video , stephan explains the basic navigenics premise : “you would get on the website and you would order a saliva collection kit . you would then return that to our laboratory , where we would sift through the entire human blueprint you’ve provided to us . ”
venter , the founder of the j . craig venter institute in san diego , ca , and collaborators from that institute and from scripps translational science institute in la jolla , ca , sent the saliva of five individuals–they don’t say whose spit they used–to 23andme and navigenics , two major online dna - testing companies both based in the san francisco bay area . venter’s team then analyzed and compared the results to see if the sites provided consistent information .
one controversy is that some gene testing web sites take orders directly from patients without a doctor ' s involvement . ( navigenics says it uses a doctor . ) california law requires that a licensed physician order any lab tests , including genetic tests , says karen nickel , chief of laboratory field services for the california department of public health . all lab tests must also be validated for accuracy and medical utility , according to state requirements , nickel says .
navigenics and 23andme attracted the most focus of the companies receiving the letters . both are based in california’s silicon valley and both offer services , costing from $ 1 , 000 to $ 2 , 500 , that scan a person’s whole genome , providing a variety of information about the risk of various diseases . google is a backer of 23andme , and one of the company’s founders , anne wojcicki , is married to a google co - founder , sergey brin .
the venter study notes that , in some cases , companies define the average population disease risk differently . “navigenics distinguishes population disease risk between men and women ( for example , men are more likely to have heart attacks than women ) , whereas 23andme primarily takes into account age ( for example , incidence of rheumatoid arthritis increases with age ) , ” the authors write . “this ambiguity in the definition of a ‘population’ underscores the caution one must exercise when interpreting absolute risk results . ”
now , i agree with steve murphy about a lot of things , but i totally diverge from him on this . having been tested by both 23andme and navigenics , i can say that , yes , it ' s complicated . but frankly i don ' t need a doctor , and i don ' t want a doctor , to facilitate my understanding of what my dna means . yes , there are some medical implications , but these are hardly live - or - die moments .
as the years pass , it ' s only natural to start worrying about how your health may change . but until recently , we ' ve only been able to gauge what the future may bring by looking at our current health and family history . enter navigenics , a silicon valley - based personal genetics company dedicated to helping you understand your genetic dispositions to 28 common conditions , from alzheimers to breast cancer , so that you ' re able to take preventative measures to ensure a long , healthy life .
as for downloading your data off - line : sure , you can do it , but it’s worth noting that navigenics actively discourages this ( at least for their snp chip package ) . their view seems to be that too much knowledge could be scary or dangerous for ignorant consumers ; well , that , and they don’t want you taking your raw data off to be analysed by a third party . it’s a deeply regressive , paternalistic approach compared to the “knowledge is power” perspective advocated by both 23andme and decodeme .
the results of our study are consistent with those found by heald et al . , 14 which reported poor concordance between risk assessment methods for three conditions tested in navigenics pgt ( breast cancer , prostate cancer , and colon cancer ) . we expand on their work by analyzing more conditions included in the pgt panel and in a larger sample of individuals . the finding that overall these risk estimates do not agree for most conditions tested implies that these two risk assessment methods may not provide equivalent risk information for most individuals .
in contrast to our findings , bloss et al . 13 reported association between navigenics pgt risk estimates and family history for a subset of five conditions . two of these five conditions ( type 2 diabetes and graves disease ) were included in our analysis and were found to show poor concordance between pgt and family history risk estimates . differences between our findings are likely explained by a significantly lower prevalence of family history reports in our cohort and a difference in sample size , as well as different statistical methodologies used to assess association and concordance .
the agreement between family history and navigenics pgt risk assessment is shown in figure 1a , b and table 2 . overall , the two methods of risk assessment had poor concordance , as shown by the calculated kappa statistic ( κ ) values . there were no conditions for either males or females that showed more than slight agreement between risk assessments ( i . e . , had a κ value > 0 . 20 ; table 1 ) , aside from deep vein thrombosis in females ( κ = 0 . 201 ) . similarly , when combining males and females into a single sample for the 18 conditions that overlapped between the sexes , there were no conditions that showed significant agreement between risk assessment methods ( see supplementary table s2 online ) .
to me , this reflects as much a cultural disagreement as a legal or regulatory one . that is , there is the assumption in the states ' letters that , because genetic information has medical implications , the dissemination of this information must fall under their jurisdiction .
but there are , in fact , all sorts of areas in life that have medical implications that we don ' t consider the province of government – a pregnancy test , most obviously . we neither want nor assume that doctors should have a gatekeeper role in establishing whether we are or are not pregnant , nor do we look to the state to protect us from that information . pregnancy is a part of life , and it has all sorts of implications and ramifications . so too with dna .
what ' s more , when i have shared my results with physicians , they ' re largely greeted with a shrug . i don ' t want to
trust
a doctor , no matter how skilled or well trained , i want the access to my genetic data just as i want to know , without government approval or physician filtering , all sorts of information about myself .
this is * my * data , not a doctor ' s . please , send in your regulators when a doctor needs to cut me open , or even draw my blood . regulation should protect me from bodily harm and injury , not from information that ' s mine to begin with .
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california becomes the second big state to crack down on companies that offer gene tests to consumers via the web . this week , the state health department sent cease - and - desist letters to 13 such firms , ordering them to immediately stop offering genetic tests to state residents .
both companies use dna chips to scan a person ' s genome for gene variants that can be used to predict increased risk of developing a wide variety of diseases . decode genetics of iceland offers a similar consumer test .
these businesses are apparently operating without a clinical laboratory license in california . the genetic tests have not been validated for clinical utility and accuracy ,
says nickel .
and they are scaring a lot of people to death .
requiring that such tests demonstrate clinical
utility
could pose a particular problem if applied to 23andme : the company has admitted its tests are not medically useful , as they represent preliminary findings , and so are merely for educational purposes .
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residents of new york state who want to send saliva for dna testing by 23andme should do their spitting outside state lines .
the state’s health department considers 23andme’s genome scan to be a medical test that must be approved by regulators and ordered by a doctor .
mr . vanier , who in january became the company’s third chief executive , himself symbolizes that trend . he is a physician who still moonlights in the emergency room of stanford university medical center . the company’s first chief executive had a background in consumer internet businesses and the second was a former health insurance executive .
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meanwhile , 23andme continues to define itself primarily as a consumer - oriented company . it offers not only health - related information , but also ancestry data and some fun facts with little medical impact — like whether a person has the gene for wet or dry ear wax .
“our core strength is communicating with consumers , ” said esther dyson , a director of 23andme .
ms . dyson called it “appallingly paternalistic , ” to think consumers could not interpret genetic information without help of a doctor . “people can understand statistics about baseball , ” she said , “and i think they ought to understand statistics about genetics . ”
with the headline : is a dna scan a medical test or just informational ? views differ .
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university of adelaide researchers suggest that line - 1 transposable elements may have driven the spit between therian mammals and monotremes .
a startup company is trying a different approach to dna - based data storage , digital trends reports .
buzzfeed news reports on the case of a young girl who inherited most of her genes from just her father .
in plos this week : genetics early flowering adaptations , genetic diversity and population structure of sandflies in the americas , and more .
this webinar will discuss a project that is analyzing the “human brainome” – genome , transcriptome , proteome , and phenome interaction data - - to gain insights into alzheimer’s disease pathogenesis .
this online seminar will discuss the advantages of incorporating molecular testing into the microbiology laboratory to aid in the identification of relevant antibiotic resistance mechanisms .
in this two - part webinar , dr . elin gray , from edith cowan university , and ms . weiwei zhao , from kingmed diagnostic , will compare the highly sensitive , multiplexed ultraseek technology , on the massarray system , to digital droplet pcr ( ddpcr ) results on melanoma and non - small cell lung carcinoma samples .
this webinar will provide an overview of recent advances in single - cell rna sequencing from the perspectives of three research organizations .
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the company was co - founded by dietrich stephan , director of the neurogenomics division of the translational genome research institute ( tgen ) in phoenix , ariz . , and david agus , director of the spielberg family center for applied proteomics at cedars - sinai medical center in los angeles , calif .
says fodor : “i think there’s an opportunity for modern genetics to move outside the laboratory and move directly to consumers . ” he adds , “the clinical information that comes back to the consumer is presented in a way so that the confusion is removed . ”
vice president of engineering kamal nabijee dietrich stephan was previously the group program manager for apple’s online store , and before that directed applied biosystems’ ecommerce program . general counsel stephen moore was formerly with affymetrix , while vice president of editorial david ansley was formerly science editor at consumer reports .
the company has assembled a task force of experts to guide its practices in ethics , policy , law and security . they include greg simon , president of fastercures and a former advisor to vice president al gore , to advise on patient rights ; and david brailer , the former czar of health information technology . as recently reported in bio - it world , consumer genomics start - up 23andme recently reached an agreement with affymetrix rival illumina .
in other words , they’re not following 23andme’s lead in the sense of dropping the cost of their flagship genome scan product , which remains as laughably over - priced as ever . instead , they’re offering a stripped - down version of their test , targeting common variants associated with just ten diseases , apparently using targeted genotyping assays rather than a genome - wide snp chip scan .
i just don’t understand how anyone could possibly see this as an attractive alternative to 23andme’s ( $ 100 cheaper ) full genome scan – but i suppose it will be interesting to see what proportion of their target audience disagrees with me .
daniel – i was just about to sit down and write this very post ! i still can’t believe they used the sentence “access to your genetic test results for an entire year . ” anything would have been better than that ( like “access to your genetic test results for one year” or “access to your genetic test results while enrolled in annual insight . ” ) it seems that they are unaware of the discussion / criticism surrounding their service or aren’t concerned with it .
i don’t understand your issue with this . the time limit is really irrelevant since once you get your test results in your account , you can save that info in your computer / print it out . its not going to change with time .
daniel , this is precisely the market they should have been targeting from the beginning… . .
i have no clue what kpbc was smoking when they told them that was the right price point… . .
the true winners in this genome space will be those who have a distribution platform for medical tests or a platform for novelty tests… . . the 2 shall never meet… . . which is why i predict 23andme will go straight to novelty this year… .
if not , the fed is likely to put the squeeze on them… . . regardless of schmidt and the inauguration gifts… .
the marketplace for genetic testing is basically an uneducated one ( with the exception of people who are really excited about it ) .
so , they realized that to keep an uneducated customer happy while contemplating medically related information , they were going to need to make it easy for that person to pick up the phone and talk to an “expert” .
that’s what they got right . personalized genetic testing is not about the test , which is a commodity , or the “report” which is useless to most doctors , mothers , etc . , but the information , which is currently best conveyed through a person who can answer questions . and people cost a lot of money , thus the ridiculously high price .
personalized genetic testing is about people getting attention they feel they need or want enough to pay for it , because they can’t get it from their pcp anymore on their insurance co . ’s dime .
any company that can capitalize on that ( regardless of whether the test is clinically useful or just hand waving ) will have a market .
the writer traced the experiences of a new silicone valley millionaire who had sold his interest for a few million . this fellow had contracted with a physician in denver who was also a research scientist in dietetics and longevity .
the md took the guy’s dna info and made a prescriptive supplement program plus a killer 4 hour per day exercise regimen . the doc mentioned something about a guarantee his patient would live to be a hundred ! he didn’t say who would be the beneficiary .
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craig venter and colleagues compare consumer genetic tests and suggest ways to make them more useful .
geneticist craig venter and colleagues have tested two of the leading consumer genomics services and declared the fledgling industry to be promising , but still very early in terms of how useful the information might be .
the team compared the five sets of dna results for the risk of developing 13 diseases , including colon cancer , lupus , type 2 diabetes , and restless leg syndrome .
the results are published today in a commentary in the journal nature , along with suggestions on how to improve genetic testing as a direct - to - consumer product .
venter’s group found that the raw genetic sequencing data supplied by each company was almost 100 percent consistent . that is , for the 500 , 000 to 1 million genetic markers tested for each person , the as , cs , ts , and gs were almost exactly the same .
how the genetic testing sites interpreted the data was less consistent . each used studies in the scientific literature that have scanned human populations for dna markers associated with risk factors in order to predict whether a person will succumb to a particular disease . a person might have , say , a 30 percent increased risk for type 2 diabetes if they have a particular version of the relevant genetic marker .
the differences arise for two main reasons : because different companies sometimes use different markers , and combinations of markers , to determine an overall risk score for a disease , and because the algorithms the sites use differ in how they weigh the risk factors for different genetic markers .
the venter study makes several recommendations for direct - to - consumer genetic testing companies . these include a greater focus on the genetic variations that have a high impact on disease risk and a call to use more markers that provide information on risk factors for taking medications , such as the blood - thinner warfarin and cholesterol - lowering statins . ( 23andme does provide a marker that can indicate a risk of side effects for warfarin . ) the researchers also suggest that sites better explain how their markers fit into the overall impact of genes on a disease ( for example , whether a given marker represents 5 percent , 20 percent , or 100 percent of the genetic impact on a disease ) .
recommendations to the genetics community include conducting clinical studies to validate genetic markers for disease and for behavioral traits in actual patients tracked over time , and giving more attention to non - caucasian ethnicities .
“we plan on working with 23andme to codevelop standards for the field , ” agus adds . this is a voluntary effort that so far has faltered . 23andme science and policy liaison andro hsu says there might be a need for a neutral third party that creates standards–he suggested the centers for disease control . others have talked about the food and drug administration , or even the national institute of standards and technology .
what venter and company didn’t mention is the word “regulation”–which is likely to happen in some form if the industry is to ensure that information is accurate and consistent . the nature commentary also doesn’t call for an aggressive and comprehensive effort to validate genetic tests by running studies in the clinic to see which of these markers really do predict disease–a project that may be needed to accelerate the day when these tests become more medically useful for individuals .
just two years ago , it cost $ 1 million to sequence an entire genome ; now the price is rapidly dropping to under $ 50 , 000 , and may be as little as $ 5 , 000 by next year .
“once we have at least 10 , 000 human genomes and the complete phenotype [ disease profiles ] with these genomes , we will be able to make correlations that are impossible to do at the present time , ” says venter . “at that stage , genetic testing will be a good investment for private companies and the government . ”
david ewing duncan is a journalist and best - selling author of nine books . he is curator of
, which convenes top doers and thinkers around critical life science topics to discuss and find solutions . he
is a daily beast columnist and writes for wired , the new york times , atlantic , and fortune , among others . he is the author of experimental man : what one man’s body tells us about our health future ( wiley ) and when i’m 164 : the science of radical life extension and what happens if it succeeds ( ted books ) . his website is urltoken .
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medical data tends to be messy and hard to annotate , which makes it hard for neural networks to learn from . but machine learning is beginning to make progress .
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personal genome testing allows the identification of single - nucleotide polymorphisms associated with an increased risk for common complex disorders . an area of concern in the use of personal genome testing is how risk estimates generated differ from traditional measures of risk ( e . g . , family history analysis ) . we sought to analyze the concordance of risk estimates generated by family history analysis and by personal genome testing .
the only conditions showing slight agreement between risk assessment methods were alzheimer disease ( κ = 0 . 131 ) , breast cancer ( κ = 0 . 154 ) , and deep vein thrombosis ( κ = 0 . 201 ) in females , and colon cancer ( κ = 0 . 124 ) in males . eighty - six individuals ( 11 . 4 % ) were found to have additional genetic risks not assessed by personal genome testing after family and medical history assessment , including 38 individuals with family histories suggestive of hereditary cancer syndromes .
discordance between personal genome testing and family history risk estimates suggests that these methods may provide independent information that could be used in a complementary manner . results also support that eliciting family history adds value to overall risk assessment for individuals undergoing personal genome testing .
the medical history of each client , as collected by the genetic counselor , was reviewed , and the total number of individuals affected by any of the 20 conditions was recorded . the maternal and paternal family history for each client was reviewed , and any family members affected with any of the 20 conditions were noted .
on the basis of family history assessment , individual lifetime risk for each condition was classified into two categories : “greater than general population” risk , or “general population” risk . “greater than general population” risk categorization was defined according to the presence of a positive family history : either one affected first - degree relative or multiple affected relatives ( two or more first - degree relatives , and / or two or more second - degree relatives on the same side of the family ) . lack of a positive family history of any condition resulted in classification of individuals as at “general population” risk .
information was collected regarding additional genetic risks identified during family and medical history assessments , as well as pursuit of genetic testing outside of pgt as recommended based on these risks , if known . such genetic risks were defined by a reported family history of a specific genetic syndrome or a family / medical history suggestive of a genetic syndrome ( e . g . , hereditary cancer syndromes ) .
concordance between family history and personal genome testing risk assessments in ( a ) males and ( b ) females . error bars represent 95 % confidence interval . κ values as listed in table 2 . conditions showing slight concordance are displayed in bold ; all other conditions analyzed had poor concordance .
for males , 18 of 19 conditions analyzed had κ values whose 95 % confidence intervals ( cis ) crossed zero ( table 2 ) , indicating poor agreement between risk assessment methods , similar to what would be expected by chance . colon cancer was the sole condition for males for which there was slight agreement . pgt and family history assessment agreed on risk categorization for colon cancer 79 . 7 % of the time ; however , the agreement between the measures was only modest ( κ = 0 . 124 ; 95 % ci = 0 . 0165–0 . 232 ) . fifty - three men ( 11 . 2 % of total men ) had a family history of colon cancer ; only 15 of these individuals ( 28 . 0 % ) , however , were categorized as having higher risk by pgt .
similarly , for females , 16 of 19 conditions had κ values whose 95 % ci crossed zero ( table 2 ) , suggesting poor agreement between pgt and family history . the three conditions for which there was a slight agreement above that expected by chance , in ascending order , were alzheimer disease ( κ = 0 . 131 ; 95 % ci = 0 . 0206–0 . 241 ) , breast cancer ( κ = 0 . 154 ; 95 % ci = 0 . 0185–0 . 289 ) , and deep vein thrombosis ( κ = 0 . 201 ; 95 % ci = 0 . 00380–0 . 399 ) . overall , pgt and family history assessment agreed on risk categorization for these conditions 75 . 4 , 76 . 5 , and 91 . 2 % of the time , respectively . nineteen women had a family history of alzheimer disease , and 10 of these women ( 52 . 6 % ) were categorized as having high risk by pgt . of the 49 women with a family history of breast cancer , 14 ( 28 . 6 % ) were categorized as having high risk by pgt . only 11 women in this study had a family history of deep vein thrombosis , and 7 of these women ( 63 . 6 % ) were classified as either having general population risk / less than general population risk by pgt ( data not shown ) .
the number of individuals with a personal medical history of the conditions included was not large enough to analyze the concordance of personal medical history and pgt risks . for 12 of the 19 conditions in each sex , there were fewer than 10 individuals with a personal medical history of these conditions ( data not shown ) .
additional genetic testing pursued and potential genetic risks identified . ( a ) proportion of individuals who had genetic testing outside of pgt after additional genetic risks were identified . ( b ) family history assessment identifies individuals at risk for hereditary cancer syndromes . of individuals found to have additional genetic risks , a breakdown of risks for specific syndromes identified by genetic counselors is shown . details regarding the risks identified in the “other risks” category and genetic testing pursued are available in supplementary table s3 online .
of females whose family histories were suggestive of hereditary breast and ovarian cancer ( with a lifetime risk to develop breast cancer likely to be higher than the general population ) and males and females whose family histories were suggestive of lynch syndrome ( with a potentially higher lifetime risk of developing colon cancer ) , the majority were categorized as general population or lower risk of developing breast and colon cancers , respectively , by pgt ( table 3 ) .
much of the concern regarding pgt lies in a lack of proven clinical utility , validity , and predictive value . 2 , 3 this is , in part , related to the longitudinal nature of the data needed to determine pgt validity and the subsequent translational research necessary to provide evidence of clinical utility . our study represents one of the first and largest studies evaluating the concordance between pgt and family history risk assessments for complex disorders and provides novel data with implications for the validity and usage of pgt .
the two methods of risk assessment are inherently different , in that pgt does not take into account environmental factors , which can be shared by members of the same family and thus are partially encompassed in empiric recurrence risks generated for multifactorial disorders . this significant contributor to the development of complex diseases could account for some of the differences in risk estimate categorizations .
tables of direct - to - consumer genetic testing companies and conditions tested . 2011
a formal risk - benefit framework for genomic tests : facilitating the appropriate translation of genomics into clinical practice .
inherited genetic markers discovered to date are able to identify a significant number of men at considerably elevated risk for prostate cancer .
family history : a comprehensive genetic risk assessment method for the chronic conditions of adulthood .
family history in public health practice : a genomic tool for disease prevention and health promotion .
association of direct - to - consumer genome - wide disease risk estimates and self - reported disease .
prospective comparison of family medical history with personal genome screening for risk assessment of common cancers .
standardized human pedigree nomenclature : update and assessment of the recommendations of the national society of genetic counselors .
genetic variations of prostate stem cell antigen ( psca ) contribute to the risk of gastric cancer for eastern asians : a meta - analysis based on 16792 individuals .
the current landscape for direct - to - consumer genetic testing : legal , ethical , and policy issues .
genetic susceptibility testing versus family history - based risk assessment : impact on perceived risk of alzheimer disease .
accuracy of self - reported family history is strongly influenced by the accuracy of self - reported personal health status of relatives .
this study was supported by the msc in genetic counselling education fund of the university of toronto .
l . a . acknowledges that she had full access to all the data in the study and takes responsibility for the integrity of the data , the accuracy of the data analysis , and the decision to submit for publication .
nature is part of springer nature . © 2018 springer nature limited . all rights reserved .


murray wolfe garsson ( born may 14 , 1890 , london , england ; died march 26 , 1957 , new york city , age 66 ) was a munitions manufacturer , who with his brother , henry garsson , defrauded the us government and was responsible for the downfall of congressman andrew j. may .

murray garsson

eldridge hood young , of baltimore , md . , for henry w . garsson and murray w . garsson .
the congress : murray garsson ' s suckers . time . monday , august 12 , 1946
murray and henry garsson , joseph freeman and andrew j . may face fraud charges . america .
the hon . murray w . garsson interviewed henrik red johnson on march 14th at police headquaters in newark , nj .
short shot of olivette and oliver - exhibition dancers from murray ' s club .
murray garrson was the kind of character an investigating committee likes to find . ( wwii )
garsson and his older brother , murray garsson , had started a munitions contracting business in 1941 . a kentucky congressman , andrew j . may , chairman of the house military affairs committee during world war ii , facilitated the garssons’ enterprise .
dancing girls from murray ' s cabaret club take a seaside break and show off their sombreros .
garsson and his older brother , murray garsson , had started a munitions contracting business in 1941 . a kentucky congressman , andrew j . may , chairman of the house military affairs committee during world war ii , facilitated the garssons’ enterprise . [ 4 ] [ 5 ]
but . . . lindbergh didnt interview red until sat . march 19th in hopewell . somehow murray got to red first ?
i ' m sure that if cal knew what a scumbag garsson really was , he would probably have shot him thus saving the lives of american soldiers killed in wwii by garsson ' s defective munitions .
in nov ' 31 garsson was credited for smashing a plot by some 17 lawyers , and consular employees for conspiracy to bring illegal aliens into the country by illegally using their positions to do so . garsson worked closely with usag medalie , who by anyone ' s standards was a first class prosecutor , and handed down over 30 indictments based upon garsson ' s investigations .
i told mr . mckinney that under the president ' s order all functions will be coordinated under this bureau . mr . mckinney asked if mr . murray garsson would go back on the case and i informed him that would be according to whether secretary doak desired him to do so .
mark falzini makes extensive use of murray garsson ' s interview * with red johnson , in chapter one of his new book : their fifteen minutes . a must for everyone interested in the lkc . . . . . . and a great cover photo of the symbol - signature too .
unissued / unused material . murray and henry garsson , joseph freeman , officers of a vast munitions combine , and andrew j . may , former representative , face a charge of defrauding the government . new york , america ( usa ) . m / s as murray and henry garsson , joseph freeman , and andrew j . may face a battery of press cameras as they enter and leave the u . s . marshal ' s office in washington . various shots of them walking along . m / s as they pose in the doorway . cataloguer ' s note : date of item : 4 / 2 / 1947 .
suit yourself rick , personally i can see nothing redeeming about garsson . the very thought of this sycophant playing detective is too much for me .
suit yourself rick , personally i can see nothing redeeming about garsson . the very thought of this sycophant playing detective is too much for me . kevin
after the war , a senate investigating committee reviewing the garsson ' s munitions business discovered evidence that may had received substantial cash payments and other inducements from the garssons .
when war profiteering hit batavia . the garsson - may connection . the batavia historian . batavia historical society . batavia , illinois . vol . 38 no . 1 . january 1997
the section 24 squad was directly responsible to the secretary of labor , reported directly to him and to nobody else . they did not report to the head of the immigration service at all . the man who was the head of this group was murray garsson . murray garsson was the man whom lieutenant newman had told me about in new york . he had told me that he was a criminal who had a very bad record and that he did not dare to come into new york personally because he would be arrested . he was a very bad egg and i should watch out for him . he said he was a crook and a very dangerous crook . he would take money out from under you and make it look as if you had done it . he was a very dangerous person lieutenant newman said .
frances perkins
sometime shortly before or during the u . s . entry into world war ii , may became involved with murray garsson and henry garsson , new york businessmen with no prior arms manufacturing experience who sought lucrative munitions contracts then being awarded by the u . s . government . may was known to frequently telephone army ordnance and other government officials on the garssons ' behalf to award war contracts , obtain draft deferments , and secure other favors for the garssons and their friends . so numerous were these interventions that one ordnance official referred to them as
blitz calls .
time magazine , , june 9 , 1947 . after the war , a senate investigating committee reviewing the garsson ' s munitions business discovered evidence that may had received substantial cash payments and other inducements from the garssons . time magazine , , july 29 , 1946 .
prior to the lindbergh kidnapping garsson was convicted in 1915 for disorderly conduct and received a suspended sentence . a little later he was caught speeding and received a suspended sentence . that ' s it .
after the war , a senate investigating committee reviewing the garsson ' s munitions business discovered evidence that may had received substantial cash payments and other inducements from the garssons . [ 6 ] [ 7 ]
i have received countless letters from constituents of mine , including many letters from bondholders all over new york city , commending the magnificent work of the distinguished gentleman and his committee , including his able , courageous , and brilliant director , mr . murray garsson , former assistant secretary of labor , but with the request that the gentleman be kind enough to come back to new york and clean up the unscrupulous bondholder rackets that are still flourishing in the city of new york
i agree rick . next time i am back to my scanner i will post the rest of the report . garsson is an interesting angle that is also often overlooked . there is much to be learned here .
) asks the following question : why was murray garrson , a well - known and successful investigator of the bureau of immigration recalled to washington after he had started to question members of the hopewell household ? p . 155 [ maybe sec . doaks was called by cal ? ]
not at all . garsson is the lowest form of scum , the war profiteer . the man that lets soldiers die so that he may make some money . there is no ideology or principle involved , just simple greed .
i don ' t really care to belabor the point . if in your best judgment you find this garsson character worthy of credibility , then so be it . i ' m not sure i see the value in such a choice , but i guess everyone has their reasons .
gellman and a partner , joseph weiss , owned and operated the illinois watch case company in elgin , manufacturing compacts and cigarette lighters , and the u . s . wind engine and pump company in batavia , making farm equipment . in 1941 , with the government restricting commercial production in order to allocate material and manpower to war production , gellman and weiss needed a government contract . gellman met henry garsson in washington outside a congressman ' s office . when garsson described his requirements for the manufacture of shells , gellman agreed to provide the means to fill them .
gellman and a partner , joseph weiss , owned and operated the illinois watch case company in elgin , manufacturing compacts and cigarette lighters , and the u . s . wind engine and pump company in batavia , making farm equipment . in 1941 , with the government restricting commercial production in order to allocate material and manpower to war production , gellman and weiss needed a government contract . gellman met henry garsson in washington outside a congressman ' s office . when garsson described his requirements for the manufacture of shells , gellman agreed to provide the means to fill them . [ 3 ]
michael , 3 things come to mind : 1 . murray garrson must have gotten further along in his own investigation than we might have thought as evidenced by his long interview with chowlewskey . also , its not just chit - chat , but every word written down as questions and answers in a seemingly professional manner . 2 . so how many persons did murray and his team actually interview ? all the servants ? wondering which interview got him recalled to wash dc ? ? what about charlie shippell ? i have not read the interview with red johnson , could you post that onto the board if you have it ? thanks 3 . very few persons in this life are all good or all evil . lets just count how many us senators , reps and governors are currently under criminal indictment or just resigned ? stevens / blagoavitch / etc . etc . etc .
anyway , more relevant to this case and this thread is the fact that lots of vermin like garsson were coming out of the woodwork as they tend to do when the opportunity presents itself . it ' s just important to keep these people and their actions in perspective in the same way we do ( hopefully ) with the yellow journalism .
thanks michael - - just a related thought . . . . . it connects to cal letting murray garsson et . al . come into his house like a hurricane at 1pm at nite . somewhat odd or weird right off the bat ? first , its been bothering me how drastically or dramatically the lindbergh family changed its , well , public persona or public access after the
kidnap
? beforehand they were practically reclusive hermits , shieldiing themselves and charlie jr . from the public and the press . but literally overnite , they turned their own home into a njsp barracks and press central . like a wide - open door policy . - - including nuts and crackpots ? i dont think it was necessary to do this , unless cal wanted minute by minute access to control every nuaince and developement in the developing case - - at least initially ? isnt this an odd way to grieve the loss of your first son and create an imposition on anne , servants and extended family ? second , although cal wasnt home for murray ' midnite intrusion , at least not # 1 , it appears , that all the lindbergh house guests and detectives and police were gone by march 22nd as well ? didnt cal kick them out after a certain date ? ( who let the dogs out - - woof , woof ? )
there are six defendants in this case , five individuals and one corporate defendant . all of them except two individuals , henry m . garsson and murray w . garsson , have moved for transfer of the proceeding with respect to each of them to the district court for the northern district of illinois , eastern division , relying upon the provisions of rule 21 of the federal rules of criminal procedure , 18 u . s . c . a . in support of these motions , these four defendants filed motions for bills of particulars , which , after hearing , were granted over the objection of the government . after the government had responded to this court ' s order requiring it , as the result of these defendants ' granted motions , to supply the requested particulars , these defendants filed additional motions for further particulars , to which the united states excepted . these exceptions were heard , and the court concluded that there had been substantial compliance by the government with the court ' s order with respect to supplying the additional information to the defendants , and that , all in all , at that stage of the proceeding , the defendants had obtained from the government all information which they could reasonably ask for under the circumstances .
now i don ' t post this to undermine kevin ' s point , only to show garsson seems to have an ability for the
good
side of things prior to his
bribe
of may . and so i think you must take the good with the bad and apply it accordingly . ( may , by the way , was eventually pardoned by president truman . )
tetlow and brown were both part of garsson ' s team of investigators . i have a letter ( somewhere ) from brown to hoffman . i have the fbi report which references garsson going through the furnace and having anne walk upstairs in the nursery to see if she could be heard downstairs . i believe this is in lloyd ' s book too but i ' ll have to check . obviously this was insulting to lindbergh . that ' s why everyone made such a big deal out of it . but secretly , every cop on the premises had wanted to conduct that angle of investigation but knew it would mean their jobs . could you imagine if this crime happened today what kind of investigation would be made concerning its residents ? concerning the family ? are you kidding me ? you see , lindbergh was pulling schwarzkopf ' s strings . whatever lindbergh wanted schwarzkopf did . whenever lindbergh was upset , things would change to his liking . it ' s why the fbi were pulled in the first place as well . he allowed what appeared to be prudent but had schwarzkopf raise hell to pull the rug out from under things if it went somewhere he didn ' t want it to go . according to one of bornmann ' s reports , garsson was withdrawn on april 1st .
i know what you are saying but i think the accusation should apply accordingly . what are you basing your dislike for garsson on exactly ? is it his future misconduct , his investigative techniques , his reports , his employer , or his possible theory ? if its the theory then i think we have to start calling some of those very close to the investigation
vermin
as well . i think its also important to note that i have never seen garsson quoted as saying what his theory was . the investigations were done in with the njsp ' s fullest knowledge and blessing . the statements seem to be professionally done and handed over to lt . keaton . they are also done , at times , teamed up with the njsp . he was
recalled
on april 1st and apparently the immigration team ended its investigation at the time . in my opinion they did a good job while they were there and there is much to be learned from the reports that i have which originate from them . greed is rampant within the lindbergh kidnapping but i don ' t see any evidence of garsson being
greedy
during this investigation . ideals , convictions , and beliefs are there too , and if one thinks quickly back to loeb and leopold - they can be deadly .
for a man of 71 with a bad heart and a queasy stomach , andrew jackson may of kentucky looked remarkably fit when his trial began last april . for a man on trial for conspiracy to defraud the government , he was amazingly full of bluster . for a onetime chairman of the house military affairs committee , he was in the company of unsavory codefendants : the mysterious brothers garsson , * owners of a shadowy wartime munitions empire . but andy may was an amazing man .
i ' m not defending garsson in his role there , but in reality , i am a little more afraid of an ideology that convinces an entire country of people its ok to exterminate another group of people . like i said before , each and every law enforcement officer followed their own
moral compass .
for example , garrett schenck while complaining to an njsp officer that he had been kidnapped was laughed at while the officer sold diamonds ( on duty ) to the gas station attendant guiness ( informant ) . doesn ' t make it right , but these types of things , to varying degrees - happened all the time .
murray garrson was the kind of character an investigating committee likes to find . according to the f . b . i , he was once tied up in new york ' s brewery trade with gangsters dutch schultz and owney madden . he had twice gone through bankruptcy , had been arrested on charges ranging from disorderly conduct to grand larceny , but never served a sentence . brother henry garrson had an impressive array of engineering degrees and a spotless record as an engineering consultant . but he had been indicted , tried and acquitted on a charge of pocketing a $ 5 , 000 bribe while working as an internal revenue agent . when war came the garrson boys were ready with a good scheme for quick - & - easy profits . with no assets except a borrowed letterhead they established the erie basin metal products co . then they grabbed a $ 3 , 000 , 000 contract from the chemical warfare service to produce mortar shells , and went to town . . . . . . [ time magazine july 1946 ]
1 . they did interview quite a few people . i have several statements and some njsp reports which indicate some investigations were made jointly . for example , bornmann & garsson were together on one endeavor . this point alone causes problems for
wwii
and his position he makes above . 2 . hard to say how many . i only could say what i have and could only hazard a guess about what i don ' t have . i am sure there was a ton given over to sec . doak . i filed a foia years ago which went unanswered . i do believe garsson was interested in betty gow which was probably the reason for his being called in . that ' s all i can say without my paperwork in front of me . the johnson interview is lengthy . once i have it then it may be easier for me just to send it to you rick . 3 . i agree . also , sometimes people change , or they take risks at certain times of their life they would never take at another time . some are just bad . i don ' t think people realize that you had some police officers who actually had a record before becoming a cop . most of my research turns up police having a degree of right and wrong within their minds at the time . some would use their positions for gain . . . some moreso then others and some to varying degrees . there were some things they might do and other things they would not . not all of course but i think you get the jist of my position .
sorry the red johnson interview wasn ' t what you expected rick . . . . i do believe if something was developed from garsson that his character should be considered . however , my position is to take it in the context of the situation and the like conduct by other law enforcement whose information contributes to one ' s own personal theories . see my point ? if you consider something in one place then you must consider it elsewhere as well . too often we dismiss what we don ' t like but accept what we do when the situation which develops the information is exactly the same . in other words we will point to character to impeach an investigator ' s creditability when they develop something we don ' t like but ignore that issue when they bring to light something we like . by the same token , we ignore like conduct by a different officer who develops information that bolsters our own personal theory . it ' s my position this cannot be done . we can ' t have our cake and eat it too . if an argument applies in one place then if the exact same situation exist elsewhere then it must be applied there too and not just where we choose to invoke it . that would be selective observation .
finally , in this connection the court feels it is appropriate to make allusion to the point which counsel for these four defendants have brought up , namely , that if this court be sound in its conclusion just reached , then , in the interest of justice , in the public interest , in the interest of time and money - saving , and in greater fairness to all concerned , it would seem that the department of justice should have given more complete consideration to the question whether , in the first instance , this indictment should not have been brought in the illinois jurisdiction . and , also , it seems appropriate for the court to point out that it is perfectly proper , even now , to combine the trial of all defendants in that other jurisdiction by indictment there of the messrs . garsson . but , whatever the government may see fit to do in this respect , the decision which this court has reached is not based upon hope or expectation that through limited transfer of the proceeding it may be relieved of what would appear to be a very tedious trial of long duration . if any of the defendants must be tried here , then it is the duty of this court to proceed with reasonable promptness with the trial , and promote the efficient administration of justice in fairness to all concerned . but in conclusion the court wants to say that even though the trial is now narrowed in this jurisdiction to two defendants , and even though the court is impressed with the necessity , in the interest of these defendants and in the public interest , of assigning a date in the reasonably near future for the trial , the court will not do so unless there is a more definite disclosure to the court through pre - trial conferences as to why the government believes , if it still does , that this case will require several months for trial . such seems to be a totally unwarranted belief , if the case is properly prepared for trial .
the story unfolded by government witnesses picked up where the senate ' s war investigating . . .
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many a u . s . businessman has wished that he was big enough to get in to see elisha walker in his official habitat : the austere offices of wall street ' s famed international banking firm of kuhn , loeb & co . , of which he is senior partner . stiff - starched banker walker is not an easy man to get at .
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some of garrson ' s reports are in the original state police collection . there are also some others in keaton ' s personal files which were donated to the archives by his family . there are a few in the hoffman collection , and mention ( to include quotes ) in some fbi files . i believe garrson felt it was an inside job . but then again , a lot of people felt there had been an inside connection to include mrs . morrow . i wonder who her candidate was ? even lindbergh admitted as much to agent larmier .
to mm - - does anyone have the garrson report claimed by some high official in wash dc to be
the most intellegent account of the kidnap to date
. . . if so couldnt it be posted on this board ? what was garrson ' s motivation : illegal aliens ? a timely topic .
to mm - - does anyone have the garrson report claimed by some high official in wash dc to be
the most intellegent account of the kidnap to date
. . . if so couldnt it be posted on this board ? what was garrson ' s motivation : illegal aliens ? a timely topic . ( 09 )
the department of labor was working the immigration angle of the case . that is , they were fully investigating those illegals in the hopewell area . from the reports that i have they were attempting to use the illegal status for the dual purpose of enforcing the immigration laws and squeezing information out of those interviewed for anything relating to the kidnapping .
i do have a garrson file , but most of the information about him , specifically , is contained in multiple fbi reports . for example , there might be a 15 page report concerning betty gow and on page 11 there appears a paragraph about garrson . most of the immigration inspector ' s reports appear to have been turned over to lt . keaton . however , there is evidence that as early as march 11th hoover is asking secretary doak for his
lindbergh file
and is being flatly refused access to it . just as a reminder , it wasn ' t only garrson working on this case for the department of labor . there were many inspectors . . . .
the quote you make sounds very familiar to me . i do remember a western union sent to hoffman that might have contained such a quote but i will have to check . i can say however that i have never found a
garrson
lindbergh kidnapping investigation report ( per se ) like one would expect to find . i will check in the near future to see what i have in my file and if i can locate the fbi reports which specifically mention him .
if you look hard enough , you find problems with just about everyone involved with the exception of the fbi . if you take issues concerning garrson mostly from his future , and apply them to whatever he finds / concludes during his hopewell investigations , i would assume this same argument then exists to impeach creditability everywhere else .
many njsp investigators were implicated for taking bribes during the hall - mills case . they later investigate the lindbergh kidnapping . bornmann is disciplined for a serious infraction on one occasion , and yet again for another matter before the lindbergh kidnapping occurred . does this mean we disregard all of his reports ? do we use this to show he framed rail 16 ? hoover has many complaints against many investigators . he never says one bad thing that i could find about garrson . walsh , like garrson , believed there was an inside connection . williamson believed it too , as did mulrooney .
the department of labor was working the immigration angle of the case . that is , they were fully investigating those illegals in the hopewell area . from the reports that i have they were attempting to use the illegal status for the dual purpose of enforcing the immigration laws and squeezing information out of those interviewed for anything relating to the kidnapping . michael
yes - - mark sent me a lengthy interview of antonio chowlewsky by garrson and two other boi agents . this included alot of questions about digging and burying on antonio ' s property around the time of the kidnap ?
looking at wwii ' s post again it reminds me of everyone attacking hoffman ' s use of the various people he did during the re - investigation . for example , lt . robert w . hick ' s , is a great investigator receiving high praise from h . h . martin of the mixed claims commission in his letter of appreciation in 1941 for all the years of excellent work . but during his investigation of the lindbergh kidnapping we ' re led to believe by those who want hauptmann to be a lone wolf that hick ' s is a
dunce .
sure , apply whatever you have and consider it , but you must consider it everywhere and apply it accordingly within its proper context . what in garrson ' s interview with red johnson , for example , shows that he is either incapable or a criminal ? why when hoover is attacking schwarzkopf , keaton , lamb , etc . as dishonest , untruthful , and / or liars doesn ' t he attack garrson in this way ?
that ' s kind of a double edged sword argument isn ' t it ? i mean - the german bund really believed that cal ' s efforts , in support of nazi germany , benefited their cause greatly . so did
wild
bill donovan who simply referred to cal as
that copperhead .
maybe , had the police looked at them a little more carefully , lindy ' s reputation would have been ruined
his support for germany thereby limiting the amount of damage he did to the allies .
in promoting appeasement and military unpreparedness , lindbergh damaged his country to a greater degree than any other private citizen in modern times .
well , hindsight is 20 / 20 . there ' s a long list of famous people who admired and endorsed the nasdp and hitler .
the whole enchilada . this guy is just bad news . look at his life and his cohorts . birds of a feather really do flock together .
only in the lkc do we find guys like this actually called a detective .
was reserved exclusively for schwartzkopf ? after all , according to mark ' s new book , in 1936 gov . hoffman fired schwartzkoph the first chance he got
for bungling the lindbergh case
? their fifteen minutes p . 100 .
lindbergh questions sailor at hopewell , story being checked
- - johnson , swedish sailor adn friend of kidnapped babys nurse , taken to lindbergh home for interrogation ; schwartzkoph admits man still under suspicion . - - the circleville herald , circleville ohio , sat march 15th 1932 .
of course , cal was not required to make a record of his many personal interviews by schwartzkoph - - cal was more of a roque detective or bull in a china shop .
sadly the norm in the lkc seems to be denigrating those who serve while elevating those who take . i wonder , is that a sign of our times ?
now in march ' 32 he is credited for solving a mail bomb plot .
the lindberghs : a distinguished family by p . j . o ' brien ( $ 60 ) , and many others . if interested e : mail at krebs2 @ urltoken
anyone know if champ atlee ' s book has been published yet ? i haven ' t been able to find anything about it online .
can anyone tell me about patrick and helen lane ? they lived close to the lindbergh ' s . what about don guinness ? dose anyone have pics of the guinness station or the lane home ? email me n . m . watkins @ hotmail . com . thank you !
go to : urltoken we discuss the lane ' s and patrick ' s statement is posted there .
this forum isn ' t as user friendly as it might be , so i ' m sorry lurp173 for tagging onto to your post . i ' ll ask you to forward this to all interested parties . flemington borough is about to permit a developer to raze the union hotel ! flood them with emails !
additionally , the freeholder board of hunterdon county appears to be in favor of this . this building is an iconic structure . i helped save the jail behind the courthouse in the 1990s . please protest !
for what im reading the mayor of flemington said he wants to move past the lindbergh kidnapping . that means he don ' t care about history . why would he want to upgrade flemington when its been built up for years outside of that street . keep it historic
i agree , they should keep the center of town historic . there ' s enough mall type shopping surrounding the town .
when the kidnapper pushed off the ladder with his right foot , so that he could pivot into the nursery window to his left , why didn ' t the ladder fall to the ground - unless someone was holding the ladder at the bottom .
i have a lot of stuff on this case , have a lot of letters that was sent to juror robert a . cravatt , also have the original letter sent to him where he was invited to the party and reception the night after the trials end , signed by john johnnidis
jane : sounds awesome . . . how did you wind up with this stuff ? i would definitely like to hear more about them and your story !
i have been trying for decades to get someone who has the clout to investigate , to come to delaware and talk with me about possible leads to info regarding the lindbergh baby . i am sincerely seeking help with this . i am not seeking fame or fortune - but truth
hey rick , what you been up to ? would be nice to hear from you - usually i ' m on michael ' s site .
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andrew jackson may ( june 24 , 1875 – september 6 , 1959 ) was a kentucky attorney , an influential new deal - era politician , and chairman of the united states house committee on military affairs during world war ii , infamous for his rash disclosure of classified naval information that resulted in the loss of 10 american submarines and 800 sailors , don keith , war beneath the waves , penguin , 2010 , p . 11 and his subsequent conviction for bribery . may was a democratic party ( united states ) member of united states house of representatives from kentucky during the 72nd united states congress to 79th united states congress sessions of congress . , url accessed 2008 - 02 - 14 .
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allen b . gellman ( born april 19 , 1906 , fegyvernek , hungary – died september 13 , 1967 , los angeles , california ) was a jewelry manufacturer and first sponsor of you bet your life , the radio ( and later tv ) program hosted by groucho marx . gellman was elected to the horatio alger association of distinguished americans in 1956 .
allen gellman was born as adalbert bela gellman . he emigrated from hungary to the united states in 1930 , aged 24 and became a naturalized citizen on january 11 , 1939 . he worked as a machinist , attended night school , and began manufacturing costume jewelry .
gellman held patents for lighters , compacts , filler valves , and a container for personal items . gellman ' s inventiveness extended to his office desk , which he designed with hidden elevators and pivoting drawers , giving him fingertip control over everything inside .
gellman , president of the elgin american company , maker of watch cases , cigarette lighters , and compacts , was the first sponsor of you bet your life , groucho marx’s radio program , on abc radio and cbs radio from october 1947 to january 1950 . this company is unrelated to the elgin national watch company .