My Lords, it is with very great regret that I have to inform the House of the death of the noble Baroness, Lady Jowell, on 12 May. On behalf of the House, I extend our condolences to the noble Baroness’s family and her friends.
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they will take to ensure that the labelling and packaging of animal-derived products does not mislead consumers as to how those animals were reared.
My Lords, it is against the law to mislead consumers about any aspect of food. Methods of production for eggs and poultry meat are defined and the use of various assurance schemes helps to identify that animal health and welfare standards have been met. While legal definitions are not in place, information can be given voluntarily and trading standards is responsible for ensuring that this does not mislead.
I thank the Minister for his reply. I know he feels the same way as I do on many of these issues, but it is not right that consumers are still misled. The area where that happens the most is illustrations on packaging. Will the Government use the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 to tie down and tighten up these procedures far more? If the Government do not feel that those are sufficient, will they introduce additional measures in their agriculture Bill?
As your Lordships will know, many of these rules are subject to EU regulation. I am absolutely clear that no produce should be labelled in any way that misleads the consumer. As the noble Lord has said, under the Health and Harmony consultation into the agricultural way forward we have consulted on that, and we are considering whether there are better ways in which labelling could satisfy the consumer better.
In a similar vein, would my noble friend ensure, particularly post-Brexit, that animal feed is also labelled and that such labelling is shown to be as accurate as possible, to make sure that cattle feed in particular is also something the consumer can rely upon?
My Lords, I shall certainly take back what my noble friend has said. It is clear that we have some of the best food standards in the world. We are exporting much larger numbers— £22 billion in the food and drink sector—so it is vital for our reputation that all provenance of seeds and food is of the highest order.
My Lords, according to Which?, one in six Americans get food poisoning whereas the figure in the UK is only about one in 66. Will the Government introduce a mandatory food labelling scheme post-Brexit so that consumers can make an informed choice about the country of origin, as well as the welfare standards, of the meat products they will be consuming so they can keep their families safe?
My Lords, I am sure the noble Baroness knows that with the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill we are bringing back all the requirements under our domestic legislation, and of course that requires that countries of origin should be on the label.
My Lords, does the Minister believe that the Food Standards Agency’s plan to privatise the inspection of food producers will give consumers confidence in the safety of their food? Does he agree that the plan for producers to choose and pay for their own inspector and agree the remit and frequency of their inspection is rather like letting them mark their own homework? How will that encourage the rest of the EU to continue to import British food after Brexit?
My Lords, as I said, we have some of the highest standards in the world. We will continue to have some of the highest standards in the world. That is why we are exporting ever more produce in the food and drink sector. The Food Standards Agency is required to protect public health and consumers’ wider interest in food. That is its remit and it will continue to do so.
My Lords, does my noble friend think that consumers are also entitled to know how their meat has been slaughtered—hopefully, by the humane method of pre-stunning—and that it should be labelled?
My Lords, I understand what my noble friend says. We are clear that we understand the public concern that people should be eating meat from animals in the way that they would wish. We will be looking at labelling as a post-Brexit opportunity, as I said, and this is one area that we can consider.
My Lords, the Minister spoke about labels of origin. Will he suggest that that includes the Palestinian Authority area and that when goods come from that part of the world, they are appropriately labelled?
My Lords, I am well aware that I am speaking on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government, but I think I should take advice from colleagues in that department.
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister knows the term “barn-raised chickens”. It sounds very cute and cuddly, but in fact under that designation nine chickens can be squashed into one square metre. Does the Minister think that that might be a little misleading for the general public?
My Lords, that is why in this country we have the largest free-range flocks in Europe. The definition of eggs, as compared with other food products, is one of the legal definitions, precisely so that the consumer knows the difference between free range and barn.
My Lords, there is only one dietary requirement for Sikhs: that forbidding eating meat slaughtered in a ritual way. Yet, despite the protests of the Sikh community over many years, schools often serve only halal meat. Can the Minister do something about this?
My Lords, as I said, we understand the concern of consumers. That is why, as part of a general labelling review, we will consider the opportunities in this regard.
My Lords, I declare my interests in the register on this matter. In his Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, the Minister talked about the role of trading standards. The noble Baroness, Lady Browning, raised the issue of animal feed, which is also largely monitored by trading standards. Can he tell us by what proportion the budgets of trading standards departments have been cut in the past seven years—spoiler alert, it is more than 50%—and can he further tell us how many statutory requirements trading standards are now expected to enforce with that much reduced workforce?
My Lords, as the noble Lord rather anticipated, I understand the figures he raises but I do not have the precise figures in front of me. Trading standards departments are undertaking a very effective job, and I could give him examples of a number of recent prosecutions where they have ensured that their job is done extremely effectively. That is to enforce product safety and prevent fraud such as mislabelling of food, and they are doing an effective job.
My Lords, is the Minister considering advising consumers about the extent of antibiotic use in animal products, thereby raising awareness of the use of antibiotics?
The noble Earl raises an important issue, which is that we want to reduce the use of antibiotics in the agricultural sector. I must say that, two years ahead of target, that has been achieved. It is really important that this country is one of the world-leading reducers of the use of antibiotics, and we need to continue that trend.
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their most recent assessment of the importance of tourism to the economy of the United Kingdom.
I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest as chairman of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.
My Lords, the Government recognise that tourism is vital to the UK economy. Tourism makes important contributions to local economies across the UK and is particularly significant in rural and coastal areas. In 2016, direct tourism GVA was estimated to be worth £66.1 billion to the UK economy, a 2.2% increase on 2015. The sector is predicted to grow at an annual rate of 3.8% through to 2025.
My Lords, last year’s tourism growth was four times greater than that of the overall economy. Tourism is now arguably the number one industry in more parliamentary constituencies than any other single industry, and future developments such as Diageo’s £150 million investment in its whisky distilleries’ visitor centres, the £28 million upgrade to Blackpool’s Winter Gardens and the £55 million master plan for the Royal Albert Hall will provide complementary boosts to design and construction industries and food and drink manufacturers In Northern Ireland, 8.5% of the total jobs are in tourism. Approximately 500,000 visitors cross the border from the Republic of Ireland annually, 30% of them visitors to Titanic Belfast. Does the Minister accept that any hard border would be a big no-no for Northern Ireland’s tourism?
My Lords, in her Mansion House speech, the PM made a commitment to avoid a hard border, which is important because 28% of all visits to Northern Ireland by residents from outside the island of Ireland arrived at a port or airport in Ireland. We understand that Northern Ireland’s visitor attractions, including the Titanic and the Giant’s Causeway, rely heavily on external visitors, many of whom travel across the border.
My Lords, may I ask the Minister a slightly shorter question? Is he aware of the contribution that heritage railways make to the tourist economy? On the latest estimate, is somewhere between £250 million and £300 million a year, particularly in the coastal and rural areas to which he referred in his Answer. Could he please have a look at the Written Answer his noble friend Lord Henley gave me last week about the future supplies of coal, which are so important to steam railways, and give an assurance that, after 2023, coal supplies will continue to be available?
My Lords, I do not have specific figures on heritage railways, but I can assure the noble Lord that I shall not shunt his question into a siding and, with the help of my noble friend Lord Henley, I shall endeavour to smoke out the answer.
My Lords, tourism is the third or fourth largest export earner for the UK. Since we relaxed the tourism visa for the Chinese, we have more than doubled the number of Chinese people coming to the UK. Are we proposing to do the same thing for some of Africa and India?
My noble friend makes a good point. We have offered a two-year visa to the Chinese since 2016 for the same price as a six-month visa. This is a pilot scheme that is currently being evaluated, and we have no plans to stop that. However, until the pilot scheme has been evaluated, there are no plans to extend it.
My Lords, to build on what the noble Lord, Lord Popat, just said, the precise figure is £85 for a two-year multiple entry visa from China since 2016, whereas from India the figure is four times that, at nearly £350. With India being one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, and a huge number of tourists from India going abroad, we are losing out on those tourist visitors. Would the Minister agree with that? Secondly, the Government’s plan for Brexit is to do free trade deals around the world. Free trade deals are about movement of people. Without doing this, do the British Government think they will have a free trade deal with India? Dream on!
My Lords, I have not seen any evidence that the cost of visas has penalised tourism from India. Although visas are constantly being looked at by the Home Office, the tourism industry overall has gone from strength to strength, with year-on-year increases since 2012.
Does the Minister accept that the motor car is one of the greatest challenges to the tourist industry, and that we are not helped when railway companies, such as Northern, frequently cancel trains? Two weeks ago, 94 trains on the Lakes line into the Lake District were cancelled in a single week. Will the Government look at the possibility of forcing Northern Rail to run a proper service into the Lake District?
I agree that a proper service is important for tourism. One of our main problems at the moment is persuading tourists from outside the UK to go to places apart from London, which accounts for 58% of visits. It therefore follows that a proper transport infrastructure is essential to get visitors away from London to look at the benefits of our wonderful heritage.
My Lords, VisitBritain estimates that the UK will attract more than 40 million overseas visitors this year, following six years of record-breaking growth. However, the UK is losing market share because many of our competitors, particularly the major ones, are spending much more than us on promoting their countries abroad. Will the Government act to secure the long-term future of Britain’s tourism industry by including this vital sector in the modern industrial strategy?
Absolutely. That is why the tourism industry has brought its sector deal together. It is with BEIS at the moment and I believe the department will comment on it imminently.
My Lords, in my enthusiasm to ask my question, I omitted to declare my interest as president of the Heritage Railway Association.
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by the Minister of State for Universities, Science, Research and Innovation on 16 April (HC135033), what assessment they have made of the extent to which the £200 equipment contribution for those claiming disabled students allowances had a direct effect on reducing the number of students receiving such allowances by 4,600 between 2014–15 and 2015–16.
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and draw the attention of the House to my declared interest in Microlink PC.
My Lords, computers are a mainstream cost for all students, disabled or not. We expected a fall in take-up with the introduction of a £200 student contribution to the cost of the computer hardware, as DSA no longer funds standard computers and students may be satisfied with their existing equipment. Support continues to be available where an extra need is assessed, so as to ensure that disabled students and non-disabled students are treated equally.
I thank the Minister for his Answer. However, student numbers are rising, and the number of people claiming the DSA is falling. Is there some explanation other than that disabled people are not claiming it? I draw the House’s attention to the fact that people are getting the assessment and then stopping going through the process. What, other than a financial disincentive, can be working here?
One reason has been proved to be that at least three-quarters of students now have their own computers. The DSA is there to help disabled students with the additional costs they may face in higher education because of their disability. We introduced the £200 student contribution because computer ownership is so high.
My Lords, having seen the negative impact which the imposition of the £200 charge has had on students in England, the Welsh Government have decided against it. They take the view that helping disabled students prepare for their studies is a good thing. No matter how the Government present their case, they are still imposing a tax on being disabled. Why not think again?
The Welsh Government are entitled to do what they like. However, I say again that the mainstream costs should be covered by disabled and non-disabled students. When it was introduced, 23,400 disabled students claimed for DSA-recommended equipment and software, and the expenditure was £20.4 million. But the main point is that the equipment expenditure of disabled students averaged £870, so we think that the £200 first cost is reasonable.
My Lords, the £200 levy will obviously mainly disadvantage those on very low incomes. Have the Government given any thought to adding this £200 levy to the student loan, which might be a more acceptable way for them to pay than to try to find the £200 upfront?
The noble Baroness will know that all eligible students can access maintenance loans, and we believe that it is reasonable for any student to purchase a standard computer through that support. However, some universities provide additional help to students from low-income backgrounds, and some DSA equipment providers allow students to spread the cost.
My Lords, the Government’s stated aim, which is laudable, is to widen access to our universities. They have taken a measure which has clearly had an impact in reducing the number of disabled students in terms of the reduction of 4,600. Why do they not just reverse the policy?
The reason is because we believe that it is entirely reasonable to allow the first £200 to be spent by the student. In addition, for non-disabled students, full-time students spent an average of £253 on computers, and part-time students spent an average of £243. So again, it is a reasonable argument to ask for the £200 to be paid.
My Lords, could the Minister give some thought to the fact that your standard second-hand home computer is not powerful enough to run most of the software that is required by this group? If that is not taken into account, how can the Answer be relevant?
The answer to that question is that if some extra assistive software equipment is required, it will be funded through the DSAs. The point is that we are talking about the basic cost of £200. I also point out to the House that we have commissioned a research project to explore the impact of DSAs on eligible students, including that of recent DSA reforms, and we will report in the summer.
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to assist England’s historic cathedrals.
My Lords, cathedrals are powerful symbols of our history, and we are committed to supporting these important buildings through the £42 million Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme. We also provided £40 million of funding via the First World War Centenary Cathedral Repairs Fund, which closed last year. Cathedrals can apply to the Heritage Lottery Fund for funding for a range of projects, including capital repair. HLF has invested £120 million in protecting and conserving these iconic buildings.
My Lords, I am grateful for what my noble friend said. However, he must realise that we are talking of the most important group of historic buildings in our land. The cost of their maintenance is enormous and, while the money he referred to has been most gratefully received, we really need—I ask him to consider this—an endowment fund for cathedrals, independently administered. If he would like to see at first hand the complexities of maintaining a great cathedral—perhaps the greatest of them all—would he accept my invitation and come as my guest to Lincoln?
My Lords, as I said, we accept that the cost of repairing and maintaining these significant and marvellous old buildings is enormous, so I am glad that 57 of our wonderful cathedrals were able to benefit from the First World War fund. At the moment there are no new plans for new funding aimed specifically at cathedrals—but, of course, the listed places of worship scheme continues, as does the HLF scheme under which cathedrals and other places of worship can apply for maintenance Further to that, we are currently exploring new models of financing the repair and maintenance of church buildings through a pilot scheme under the Taylor review. Although the review did not talk specifically about cathedrals, the lessons from it can apply. I know, for example, that my noble friend has already been to see the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to put the case for more funding As for Lincoln, a couple of weeks ago I spent some time looking at what was going on at Hereford. In due course, diary permitting, I will be very pleased to go to Lincoln as well—as long as I can go on the roof and have a look.
My Lords, I speak as one who for 21 years had responsibility for the place fondly known around the world as the “Cathedral of Methodism”. For 17 of those years I was also an ecumenical canon and a member of the Cathedral Council at St Paul’s, collaborating closely with Westminster Abbey. Earlier in this Session, we heard Questions about the importance of the tourist industry for our economy generally. Certainly the number of visitors who flock through our cathedrals is a significant part of that activity—but, as the Minister hinted, much of that is concentrated in London. Would the plea of a Methodist to endow the cathedrals of this country for the established Church add weight to any decisions that the Minister might be led to make?
My Lords, I feel that I am really on the noble Lord’s ground here and that I am visiting, as it were. However, I assure him that we are looking not just at the established Church but at other places of worship, particularly those that are listed. There are many examples of places where money, particularly from the First World War cathedrals fund, has gone—it has been spread all around the country.
Has my noble friend noted the sharp drop in the number of people visiting Salisbury Cathedral since the recent nerve poison attack? Are there steps that the Government can take to help revive tourism in that magnificent cathedral city?
My Lords, I am going back to my tourism notes. I am not sure that there is concrete evidence that visitor numbers decline after terrorist incidents, but there is anecdotal evidence to support that. The DCMS has committed £100,000 to VisitEngland and VisitWiltshire to support the recovery of tourism in Salisbury. Indeed, the Minister for Tourism will visit Salisbury a week today to see how the recovery is progressing. We regularly engage with areas that have suffered, as Salisbury has, from terrorist activity. We are of course aware of those issues and do our best to support them.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that underlying this Question is the need for some long-term attention to be given to cathedrals, rather than having one-off initiatives such as the First World War repairs fund? I extend to him an invitation to visit my diocese—I am the only bishop with three cathedrals, so I can take him on a tour.
I would of course be delighted to see at least one of them. I accept what the right reverend Prelate said. We look carefully at these issues and understand that it would be nice to have an endowment fund. As I said, this is really a matter for the Chancellor, and my noble friend Lord Cormack, along with, I believe, the deans of several cathedrals, has been to see the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to talk about this. I believe that that was one of the draft recommendations of a Cathedrals Working Group report, which has not yet been agreed by the Church.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, quite apart from their historic role in this country, cathedrals play a huge role in the community, with all sorts of activities being conducted within their premises? Under those circumstances, surely it is important that the Government consider widening the scope of the finance that cathedrals have at their disposal.
I agree that cathedrals can be used for wider civic events and for things that are not directly concerned with the religion that they deal with. That is yet another reason to support them—and, clearly, the Government have spent many tens of millions of pounds doing just that. I do not think that there is any need for me to reinforce the desire of the Government to support these buildings. We accept that, for aesthetic and many other reasons, they are worthy of support.
My Lords, to return to the long term, does the Minister agree that the supply of skilled workers is essential if we are to maintain these buildings? Bearing that in mind, will the Government have a quick look at what is being done on apprenticeships at the moment? Many dyslexics, for instance, have found skills in areas such as stonemasonry, but, currently, only those with an education and healthcare plan—around one-quarter of those identified—are getting help to take these qualifications. Surely we can help dyslexics and historic buildings at the same time.
I agree with the noble Lord. When I visited Hereford a couple of weeks ago, I went to see the stonemasons’ workshop, which was taking on apprentices who were doing exactly that. It was a very good thing.
My Lords, I, too, welcome support of any kind from the Government for English cathedrals of any denomination. But, given recent threats from down the other end of this building, what is the Minister going to do to ensure the preservation of other great national treasures such as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack?
Oh!
I think the only possible way is to list him.
That the draft Order laid before the House on 26 February be approved.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 to 28.
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 to 28. I will speak also to the other amendments in this group It is my pleasure to be able to open Lords Consideration of Commons amendments to the Data Protection Bill this afternoon. As we discussed at length when the Bill first passed through your Lordships’ House, this is a detailed and often quite technical Bill, intended to make our data protection laws fit for the digital age. It went through a period of review and revision under your Lordships’ supervision, and it has since been refined further in the other place. It now falls on us to review, and I hope agree, those refinements. I am very grateful to my noble and learned friend Lord Keen and my noble friend Lady Williams for helping me with some of these key areas today In setting out the reasoning behind the Commons amendments today, I will focus my remarks on the substantive changes made rather than the technical tweaks, of which there are many. This first group of amendments addresses the Commons amendments to Parts 1 and 2. I shall start with the subject of parish councils, a cause previously championed by my noble friend Lord Marlesford, and I declare an interest in that my wife is a parish councillor Parish and community councils are not exempt from the new law. Nonetheless, by describing parish and community councils as “public authorities”, the Bill gives these councils additional obligations above and beyond those placed on other small organisations, including that they must appoint a data protection officer. We have been working to minimise the impact of this requirement—for example, by exploring options for parish councils to share a data protection officer However, since the Bill left your Lordships’ House, we have concluded that as parish and community councils process very little personal data and often have few staff and small budgets, the burden that they will face may be disproportionate in some instances. I am therefore pleased to say that Commons Amendments 8, 9, and 10 would take these councils out of the definition of “public authorities” for data protection purposes. Their status in respect of other legislation, including the Freedom of Information Act, is unaffected Since the introduction of this Bill, it has been brought to our attention by a range of stakeholders from all sides of the political divide that there is concern about how processing for the purpose of democratic engagement should be treated for the purposes of the GDPR. I remember especially the contributions from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and others on this subject, and I have met him to discuss these issues. I am grateful for his time and commitment As I have said before, the Government believe that there is a strong public interest in political parties and elected representatives and officials being able to engage with the public both inside and outside elections, which may sometimes include the processing of personal data. Having considered the matter further since then, the Government have concluded that it would be prudent to make provision in the Bill, to provide greater clarity to those operating in this space. Helpfully, Clause 8 already provides high-level examples of processing activities which the Government consider could be undertaken on the grounds of public interest As a consequence of the importance that the Government attach to the matter, Commons Amendment 12 would add, “an activity that supports or promotes democratic engagement”, to that list. This term has been deliberately chosen with the intention of covering a range of activities carried out with a view to encouraging the general public to get involved in the exercise of democracy. That could include activities such as communicating with electors, campaigning activities, supporting candidates and elected representatives, casework, surveying and opinion gathering, and fundraising to support such activities. We will ensure that the Explanatory Notes include such examples to assist the interpretation of what this provision means in practice However, any processing of personal data in connection with these activities would have to be necessary for the purpose and have a legal basis. That is why we can be clear that firms like Cambridge Analytica will not be able to claim public interest irrespective of whether Amendment 12 is agreed today. The amendment does not seek to create partisan advantage for any one side or to create new exemptions from the data protection legislation; it is intended to provide greater clarity and allow legitimate political activity to continue. The amendment is also technology neutral, given that in a short time we have moved from physical post to email, text, Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp and Snapchat, and no doubt other means that I do not know about.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that lucid exposition. When one has 282 amendments from the Commons, which I think is fairly unusual after the Lords have worked on a Bill, we find that the Commons have made many improvements, with one or two notable exceptions that no doubt we will come to in later groups. I welcome Amendments 8, 9 and 10 in particular, and Amendment 12. I heard what the Minister said in caveating the intended extent of the amendment. I very much hope that it will have the effect he hopes for. The automated decision-making provisions have to be in line with the GDPR, so it is clearly necessary to amend the Bill in that respect, but I generally welcome this group of amendments.
My Lords, I too welcome this group of amendments. First, on Amendments 8, 9 and 10, I recall the debate led by the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, who is not in his place at the moment. He talked about his experience of the parish council and his area, explaining that a part-time clerk did a couple of days a week and it was impossible. He made his case well and I am happy to support him in it. I am glad to see that the Government have listened. I also believe that many Members on all sides of the House in the other place made similar points. I thank the Government very much for that I am very pleased with Amendment 12. We, with the Liberal Democrats, raised this issue during a debate in this House. We could not get it all agreed before it left to go to the other place but I had two very positive meetings with Matt Hancock and Margot James. The noble Lord, Lord McNally, also came along to our other meetings and the noble Lord, Lord Hayward, from the Conservative Benches, was also involved. We got to a good place. Nobody from any party thought that this issue should not be properly recognised in legislation. I am very pleased that the Minister and his colleagues have listened to us The Minister is of course right that technology changes all the time. We have no idea what we will be doing in four or five years’ time. Things move so fast now, so it is good that our legislation is written to take that into account. I was also pleased to hear the Minister say that the Government intend to consult and work with the Parliamentary Parties Panel, which is very important. It is a statutory body, set up in the PPERA 2000, where practitioners from all political parties can come together and talk with both the Electoral Commission and Cabinet Office officials. It really is the body where the people who know what they are talking about can come together. I sat on the body for many years and there was a lot of agreement among party officials about what needs to be done. I am glad that the Government will do it and I am pleased with what has come forward today.
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Kennedy, for their positive remarks. There are a lot of amendments so, as I said before, I will try to concentrate on the substantive ones. There are a lot of consequential amendments, which make sure that the substantive amendments go through so that the Bill makes sense. I note that, having considered 692 amendments in your Lordships’ House, we are now considering a further 286; 978 amendments later, we should be in a better place.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 29.
My Lords, Amendments 29 and 30 relate to Clause 51, which enables data subjects to exercise certain rights through the Information Commissioner. Under Part 3, where a person makes a subject access request, it may be necessary for the police or another competent authority to give a “neither confirm nor deny” response; for example, to avoid tipping off that person that they are under investigation for a criminal offence Under the Bill as passed by this House, a data subject could exercise their rights under Clause 51 to request that the Commissioner check that the processing of their personal data complied with the provisions in Part 3. Such a request would clearly undermine a “neither confirm nor deny” response, effectively providing a back door for data subjects to find out if personal data was being held on them. To address this, the amendments replace the requirement on the Information Commissioner to check that processing complies with Part 3 with a requirement to check that a restriction imposed by the controller is lawful Commons Amendments 31 and 32 relate to Clause 53, which enables a controller when in receipt of a manifestly unfounded or excessive subject access request either to charge a reasonable fee before responding to the request or refuse to act on the request. The amendments extend this latitude afforded to a controller to cover requests made by a data subject under Clause 50, which requires a controller to reconsider a decision based solely on automated processing. Although the vast majority of subject access requests made by data subjects are reasonable, the amendments are necessary to ensure that controllers have a robust mechanism in place to deal with any repeated or malicious requests that they receive. I beg to move.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 30 to 50.
That this House agrees with the Commons in their Amendments 51 and 52.
My Lords, this group of Commons amendments relates primarily to the enforcement powers available to the Information Commissioner. This is one area where, after the Bill originally left your Lordships’ House, events have influenced the Government’s thinking. The Information Commissioner’s investigation into Cambridge Analytica is unprecedented in both its scale and its complexity. It has, necessarily, pushed the boundaries of what the drafters of the Data Protection Act 1998, and the parliamentarians who scrutinised it, could envisage While recognising that the Bill already expands and enhances the commissioner’s ability to enforce the requirements of the data protection legislation in such circumstances, the Government undertook to consider whether further provision was desirable in light of the commissioner’s recent experience. Following extensive conversations with the commissioner and others, we concluded that such provision was indeed desirable. The amendments made in the other place would strengthen the commissioner’s ability to enforce the law while ensuring that she operates within a clear and accountable structure. I want to give five examples in particular First, Commons Amendment 64 would allow the commissioner to require any person who might have knowledge of suspected breaches of the data protection legislation to provide information. Previously, information could be sought only from a data controller or data processor. This could be important where, for example, a former employee had information about the organisation’s processing activities or if an organisation had gone into administration Secondly, Commons Amendment 70 would allow the commissioner to apply to the court for an order to force compliance where a person failed to comply with a requirement to provide information. Organisations that might previously have been tempted to pay a fine for non-compliance instead of handing over the information will now find themselves at risk of being in contempt of court if they do not comply Thirdly, Commons Amendments 67 and 87 would allow the commissioner to require controllers to comply with information or enforcement notices within 24 hours in some very urgent cases, rather than the seven days the current law provides for. Amendment 79 would allow the commissioner in certain circumstances to issue an assessment notice that can have immediate effect. The amendments would allow the commissioner to obtain information about a suspected breach or put a stop to high-risk processing activities promptly and effectively. They will also allow her to carry out no-notice inspections without a warrant in certain circumstances Fourthly, Commons Amendment 81 criminalises the behaviour of any person who seeks to frustrate an information or assessment notice by deliberately destroying, falsifying, blocking or concealing evidence which has been identified as being relevant to the commissioner’s investigation Finally, we have also taken this opportunity to modernise the commissioner’s powers. Storing files on an office PC is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Commons Amendment 210 would enable the commissioner to apply for a warrant to access material which can be viewed via computers on the premises but which is actually held elsewhere, such as in the cloud.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his explanation. In many ways, when these clauses came to the House we missed a trick; I do not think we quite understood at the time that the Information Commissioner did not have adequate powers. It was rather a sorry sight to see the Information Commissioner hanging around for several days outside Cambridge Analytica waiting to be allowed to enter and inspect, so these amendments are extremely welcome—as, of course, is the new criminal offence the Minister mentioned I will say one thing: it is not entirely clear whether these powers are on all fours with, for instance, the Competitions and Markets Authority, Ofcom, Ofgem, and so on, in terms of the ability to make a dawn raid. I have looked at it but it is not entirely clear that that is possible. Clearly, in the current circumstances, the misuse of data is an extremely important aspect. It would be very interesting to hear from the Minister whether at the end of the day these are modelled on the other regulators. Does the Information Commissioner have very similar powers, and is a dawn raid available to her? Given that there are safeguards in the Bill—a warrant from the High Court and so on—that would be desirable. We have discovered that it is important for the Information Commissioner, as a result of the Cambridge Analytica scandal, to have all the powers necessary.
My Lords, I associate myself with what has just been said by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and I agree with the Minister that this is a welcome step forward. I have three minor points to put to him and I shall ask a question about the powers at the end. He said several times that he had had conversations with and was in agreement with the ICO about the powers that were taken. Following up on what the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, said, has the ICO agreed that these powers are what she asked for and will achieve what she aims to do in cases such as that of Cambridge Analytica Secondly, what are they modelled on? I have had the benefit of a conversation with the Bill team and the Minister on this and I think the answer to the question of whether they are modelled on the Competition and Markets Authority’s powers is that they are coming from slightly different directions. It is not necessary that the powers should be exactly the same, but I think the answer is that they were broadly what was envisaged for the CMA when it was set up and therefore appropriate for the powers required by the ICO. Can the Minister confirm that is the case My third question is one that we have explored at length in Committee and on Report. Given these new duties and responsibilities, which are substantial and will have to be exercised with great care but will add a burden to its existing work—as was laid out in the Bill when we saw it in this House some time ago—will the resources be available to the ICO to carry out that work? If not, what will the Government do about that? This bears particularly on the question of staff and staff capacity because, as the Minister says, we are talking about the cutting edge of technology My final point is that we are legislating in haste. There is no reason why we should be suspicious of that but it was done very quickly and there was not as much scrutiny as one would have wished, in either this House or the other place. I was not able to find this in the Bill itself, but can the Minister confirm whether, should it turn out that these powers are not as well drafted or well expressed as they could be, he has the powers to go back and amend them through the appropriate procedures in due course, should that be necessary?
My Lords, I have one question that builds on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson. I note that the Minister said that organisations that refuse to hand over information will be in contempt of court. Can he confirm whether there will be a public interest defence built into these provisions?
Building on the point about the limited time for scrutiny here, can the Minister also explain whether there is a protection for the sources of journalism, with no obligation to disclose sources? Is there a protection for legal professional privilege and matters of that sort?
I am grateful for the contributions made by noble Lords. The first thing to acknowledge is that these amendments were made at a reasonably late stage in the Bill but not a very late stage, in the sense that it was in the second House. We considered the Bill first and the second House amended the Information Commissioner’s powers, so we are now looking at them again. However, I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, that the Information Commissioner was involved in these powers. That is not to say that, in the course of those discussions, she did not put up some powers that she might like to have but, in discussion with the Government, we settled on some powers that she was content with. I can confirm that she is content with this suite of powers; in fact, she has written to the Minister for Digital confirming as such The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned a dawn raid and asked whether we can do that and, further, whether these powers are on all fours with the Competition and Markets Authority and Ofcom. By and large the powers are on all fours but, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, they are not exactly the same. They were modelled on them but they are slightly different, given the different roles and functions that regulators have. As for a dawn raid, the Information Commissioner has the power to ask for a warrant to be issued without notice if the judge is satisfied that giving the controller advance notice would not be appropriate. As I say, we looked closely at the powers of the CMA and Ofcom and modelled them as closely as possible The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked about protection for journalists’ sources. I can confirm that, yes, the new ICO powers continue to respect the need to protect journalistic sources and legal professional privilege The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, also talked about the Information Commissioner’s resources. As he knows, we have increased the fees and made a commitment in the past that we will make sure that the Information Commissioner has the resources available to do her job properly. We understand the issues that that involves. We need the Information Commissioner to do a proper job and to be able to do so, not least because of the Brexit negotiations and the data adequacy requirements that we will want to continue for electronic commerce I think I have dealt with the points raised and, on that basis, I thank noble Lords for their support for these powers.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 53.
My Lords, Commons Amendments 53 and 207 would remove from the Bill matters inserted by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, with the intention of protecting value in certain personal data held by the state. I am grateful to the noble Lord for again taking the time to come to see me to discuss further the intention of his original amendments to the Bill. He has been very helpful and we are in full agreement that this is an important matter. Our meeting also gave me the opportunity to explain the Government’s plans to address the issues that he raised going forward In this new digital information age, big data is changing the world we live in. One of the key reasons for updating our data protection laws was to ensure that the law is fit for this new age, where an ever increasing amount of personal data is being processed. We have remained conscious throughout the drafting of the Bill of the need to protect individuals’ data while also ensuring that the new law does not stifle innovation in the way that we use personal data. The Government recognise that novel ways of processing personal data could bring great technological, economic and societal benefits to the UK Longitudinal health and care data, in particular, has the power to fundamentally transform our lives in truly positive ways. The Government are taking a considered approach to the policy in this area in order to ensure that we get this right and fully realise the potential benefits of using health data, while ensuring that individual privacy is respected. We want to examine how we can maximise the value of the data for the benefit of the NHS and those who use and pay for it While we are entirely sympathetic to the aim of the noble Lord’s amendments, Commons Amendments 53 and 207 would reverse them because we firmly believe they do not help us achieve the outcome we are all seeking. A statutory code of practice risks stifling innovation, placing public authorities in a straitjacket. In an area where the thinking is still developing and the rate of technological advancement is increasing, flexibility is essential Moreover, maintaining a register of “data of national significance” is likely to raise a number of security concerns. The NHS has been the victim of cyberattacks and we do not want to produce a road map to assist those who want to harm us. The Information Commissioner’s Office has also stated, quite rightly, “that even establishing and maintaining a register would still require the Commissioner to make decisions in an area where she is not best placed to advise”, because her core function is to protect information rights While not developing a code and a register, the Government are none the less taking active steps to ensure we grip the issue that the noble Lord raises. We are working to connect to make the most of the distributed data that exists in the health service, identifying three to five local exemplars of integrated digital health and care records and using these to develop digital innovation hubs to support the use of data for research purposes, including in partnership with industry The Department of Health and Social Care is working to explore how to maximise the benefits of health and care data for patients and taxpayers. This includes exploring the different approaches taken by a range of bodies and lessons to be learned from local experiences of working with the private sector. It will look specifically at how best to capture value from products developed using NHS data Although Commons Amendments 53 and 207 may appear disappointing to the noble Lord, I can reassure the House that they are made with the best intentions, and that the Government are making every effort to address the concern in the right way. I beg to move Amendment 53A (as an amendment to the Motion on Amendment 53)
At end insert “, and do propose Amendment 53B instead of the words left out of the Bill by this Amendment and by Amendment 207”.
My Lords, the words in the Bill and the words on the screens above us summarise my position. This is the Data Protection Bill, and my amendment is solely about protecting data—our data; our data of national significance; and in particular, our data owned by our National Health Service. Who do I wish to protect it from? From the predatory big tech companies, which see a huge financial opportunity in developing this NHS data and creating data algorithms; they can then sell those for billions of pounds, leaving us with precious little in return. The very same companies, by the way, pay minuscule corporation tax in our country and, indeed, it is the same in their own country. They are clever, immensely well funded, and very focused—they run rings around the NHS I feel that I have to prevent this happening. I seek to set in motion a process which will keep the value of this data for the benefit of our NHS so that it can use these proceeds either to plug its growing budget deficit or fund significant critical medical research—or, indeed, both. If I let my imagination go even further, I would like to see the setting up of a sovereign health fund into which these proceeds could be channelled and administered, in the same way as the Norwegians set up a sovereign wealth fund. What they have done with the proceeds of their North Sea oil we can now do with our data bonanza. As many have said throughout the Bill’s proceedings, data is the new oil—and we have struck a gusher If I may be permitted to extend the analogy even further—like oil in the ground, this data is crude; it needs to be refined. Huge investment will need to be made to create a data refinery which will be able to synthesise the millions of records that will produce the algorithms. It should be seen as a national co-production, perhaps with private and public partnership At Second Reading, I stated that it was my judgment that the market value of NHS longitudinal data could be worth billions of pounds. In all honesty, as I progressed, I fully expected someone to disagree with me and tell me that I was wrong. But no such person has come forward. All the experts seem to confirm my position. I made the point that the longitudinal data owned by the NHS was unique, with tens of millions of patient records going back to 1948 and even earlier. No other country has access to such a treasure trove. Even better, our population is diverse, with the records of people whose family members come from all corners of the globe. We have a perfect dataset The reason big tech companies are so interested in this data is that with the combination of sophisticated software, ultra-fast data processing, artificial intelligence and machine learning capabilities, they are able to produce algorithms which are tremendously powerful. These can be used to predict organ abnormalities to the extent that clinicians can save time and money, and ultimately people’s lives. And who can disagree with that? It is wonderful for all mankind By way of an example, DeepMind, which is based in London—it is a subsidiary of Alphabet, which owns Google—has been working with the Royal Free in anticipating acute kidney injury. Like knights on white chargers, DeepMind has financed the digitisation of millions of patients’ data and produced algorithms that are already making a major contribution to improving difficult-to-diagnose conditions. It has cost the Royal Free next to nothing and, unsurprisingly, its staff are over the moon. What they do not realise is that the algorithms produced by DeepMind have international value and will be monetised all over the world for the benefit of Google, not of our NHS DeepMind and companies like it are swarming all over the NHS. For my part, to put it bluntly, I want to stop them gathering the benefits of our data on the cheap. My new amendment would water down previous amendments that your Lordships agreed to on Report—an amendment that the Commons in its infinite wisdom decided to annul. Frankly, I am still at a loss to understand why a Conservative Government would not want to maximise this goldmine; I always thought they were the party of business I have, however, taken on board the points made by the Information Commissioner. She said the amendments went beyond her powers. I have reduced them to a minimum. In substitution I have inserted a requirement for the Secretary of State to require the National Audit Office to prepare a code of practice for data controllers, for guidance on how to obtain best value in relation to the commercial exploitation of personal data of national significance, and for the NAO to report annually to Parliament on the commercial explication of the very same data The Minister and his team have listened to what I have had to say and I am very grateful for his kindness and attentiveness. Our last meeting was very helpful, and I look forward to him confirming the points that were made. I beg to move.
My Lords, I support Amendment 53A, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell. In doing so, I wish to make two specific points that follow on from his speech today. First, the amendment crucially recognises the importance of measuring what we as a nation are doing with data of significance before we take important, industrially strategic decisions on how we make the most of this vital national resource The noble Lord and others have made the analogy of data as the new oil. That analogy works particularly well for personal data as, like oil, it is potentially as toxic as it is valuable, and it must be carefully handled and not allowed to be released into the environment without due care. If we are to best manage, protect and distil it, we must first learn where and how it is being moved, used and commercialised. Can we as a nation easily answer the question that we are asking of Facebook or the former Cambridge Analytica: how much data are we commercialising at home and abroad, and to whom? If not, why not? Progressive and young, emerging nations are reviewing how they use their national data for national advantage, and we must make a concerted effort to do the same My second point is how the amendment therefore recognises that this measurement should be done centrally, not burdening already stretched government departments with developing their own approaches. While these departments must remain involved to provide domain insight into certain data types—for example, health and social care—the National Audit Office or other bodies should take charge of a cross-departmental process for measuring and tracking these flows of significant and valuable data. In this way we should be able to develop a consistent, coherent view of how we are handling our data reserves, which will give us the best possible evidence upon which to base our decisions on a secure approach to maximising their impact for our future national good. I therefore hope the Minister will be able to shed some light today on how this process is being thought through.
My Lords, I support Amendments 53A and 53B, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell I must express my general frustration at the Bill. There is so much information, so much data of national significance that, it is clear, will be abused by the Government, whether or not they know that they are doing so. The Windrush scandal showed just how badly the Home Office gets things wrong, and the Bill’s provisions allow the sharing of people’s data which would further the “hostile environment” policy. I am very disappointed that the Government have not tabled amendments to curtail the broad powers in the Bill that will allow for such abuse There are so many cases of people who are victims of serious crime—of rape, violence and people trafficking—who are being reported by the police to the Home Office and then being arrested, detained and deported. At least 27 police forces have admitted that they do this. Ministers cannot possibly claim to be learning from those instances, just as they appear not to have learned from Windrush, while they continue to include such cruel and intrusive powers in the Bill. The fact that the Government can get things so horribly wrong is why the amendment should be included We have heard that data is more valuable than oil. It is more valuable than oil or gold. It is the boom industry of our times, and the temptation for government to allow its exploitation by the commercial sector—the predatory big tech organisations to which the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, referred—will be overwhelming, especially in this age of austerity when money appears to be so short. This is not just an issue of exploitation in a negative sense: there are lots of opportunities for government data to be used to empower communities. We can do things such as monitor air pollution and hold the Government to account by using this data. I am excited by those opportunities, but they need proper regulatory oversight to ensure that data is used for good. The control and processing of nationally important data must be properly overseen by the Information Commissioner and the National Audit Office. The Government recognised this in the Bill as drafted, and I do not understand why that has been removed—perhaps the Minister could explain I really hope that the Minister will support the amendments, but I rather suspect he will not.
My Lords, on these Benches, we are very sympathetic to Amendments 53A and 53B. Like the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, we find it difficult to understand why it has been impossible to come to some sort of agreement. I hear what the Minister said: that he is sympathetic, but not so sympathetic that he agrees with the amendments. This disagreement about whether a statutory code, guidance or whatever is the right way forward seems to be dancing on the head of a pin I pray in aid the intervening report of the AI Select Committee on precisely this matter, which supports the contentions of the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell. In our report, we stated: “Increasingly, public sector data has value. It is important that public organisations are aware of the commercial potential of such data. We recommend that the Information Commissioner’s Office work closely with the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation in the establishment of data trusts, and help to prepare advice and guidance for data controllers in the public sector to enable them to estimate the value of the data they hold, in order to make best use of it and negotiate fair and evidence-based agreements with private-sector partners” That seems fair and square along the lines proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell In the course of our inquiry, we also looked carefully at the sorts of arrangements made by DeepMind—not only the benefits, which he very fairly outlined, but the issues with how sharing that data was organised, which of course led to an investigation by the Information Commissioner’s Office. Of course, NHS data is particularly important in this context. In our report, we stated: “The data held by the NHS could be considered a unique source of value for the nation. It should not be shared lightly, but when it is, it should be done in a manner which allows for that value to be recouped” So, fair and square, we are with the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell It would be somewhat ironic if the Secretary of State, in his response to our Select Committee in three or four weeks, said, “Yes, we agree: there should be something along these lines”, but we had missed the opportunity in this Bill.
My Lords, we supported the amendments that my noble friend Lord Mitchell tabled in Committee and on Report, and we support him in his journey through this process. The issue is probably complicated by the fact that, had this Bill been delayed by a matter of months from now, we would probably find that this issue was bobbing up all over our public realm, where people are beginning to realise the value of the assets that they hold. To the extent of being a first mover, I think that my noble friend has probably suffered from that, but I hope that the Minister will show some sympathy and support for him.
My Lords, I feel a lot of sympathy for the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, and commend what he is trying to do. I think that I shall be able to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, that we are not as far apart as he might think. The noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, raised with great enthusiasm the point that we should ensure as a country that we use our rich resources wisely. We share his excitement about the huge potential of big data to improve health and care. We acknowledge that, if we leverage these data to their full potential, that will have huge positive impact in improving care, giving people greater control, enabling the system to plan better and target support and treatments to those who can benefit, and it will transform our already world-leading life sciences industry Nevertheless, in the judgment not just of the DCMS but also the Department of Health and Social Care—I know that the noble Lord has been speaking to my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, on this subject—Amendment 53B risks undermining the work already being done in this space. NHS England, the Department of Health and Social Care and the Office for Life Sciences are already undertaking a programme of work that looks seriously at the public benefits that can be derived from NHS data. They are committed to working with representatives of the public and industry to explore how to maximise the benefits of health and care data for patients and taxpayers. In doing so, it is vital that service users and patients are involved every step of the way. They will accept and support the use of their health data only if they understand how and why their information is being used and how everyone will benefit. We must take the public with us on this journey, rather than imposing a code now My noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy and his ministerial colleagues at the Department of Health and Social Care have made a written commitment to keeping the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, involved in future discussions about this work. He will make a valuable contribution with his expertise in this matter, ensuring that we maximise the value in these datasets I want to answer straightaway and head-on the point about why the Government should not consider that we extract the full value of the taxpayers’ data. Of course, it is absolutely right that public sector bodies should be aware of the value of the data that they hold, but that value can be extracted in many ways, not solely through monetary means. For example, sharing health data with other companies that analyse that data may lead to a deeper understanding of diseases and potentially even to new cures. That is why we want to take some time to explore this important issue fully and try to find the most appropriate solution, should one be needed, rather than tying ourselves to one approach now. That was raised in the other place when this issue was discussed by amendments from people who are very concerned about how health data are being treated. As I said before, we have to be very careful, particularly when talking about health data, how we use datasets when people have given their information on the basis that it is anonymous and is extremely sensitive The noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, rightly broadened the issue a bit from just health data. He asked how much data we are commercialising, at home and abroad, and to whom. He suggested that bodies other than central government should take charge of a process for measuring and tracking these flows of significant data. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. A body exactly such as that can, in this very fast-moving area, consider the balance between the need to protect an individual’s anonymity and the sensitivity of their data, and that data’s monetary value and use for things such as curing disease The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, made some interesting remarks about how information would be abused by the Government and the broad powers we have taken in the Bill. I remind her that the GDPR, which takes effect directly on 25 May, is exactly about protecting data subjects’ rights. For example, it allows data subjects the rights of rectification and erasure. The point about subject access rights is to allow individuals to have more protection than they currently do. The Bill brings some of those rights and extends them into areas which are not even covered by EU competence. I do not agree with the noble Baroness that we are abusing the powers.
I apologise for interrupting the Minister. I have not been in the House long, so have not heard the whole debate, but I was listening to a programme about this subject at lunchtime today. The impression was clearly given that lives were being put at risk because of oversensitivity about the sharing of data. Perhaps the Minister will get his advisers to check what was said on that programme and see how much sense it made.
I will find out what was said. We should deal with what the GDPR calls special categories of data very sensitively. We should take data on health, sexual orientation, ethnicity and things like that very seriously. That is what the GDPR does and we will continue to do it under the Bill Finally, I return to the Commons amendments. I am afraid we still cannot support Amendments 53A and 53B as, at the moment, we believe that they are fundamentally the wrong solution. However, I hope that the productive discussions, to which the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, referred, along with what I have said today, have convinced the noble Lord that our vision is aligned and that he finds sufficient reassurance in these words, and the written assurances that he has had from my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, to be able to withdraw his amendment.
I thank the noble Lord for his very helpful comments. I also thank my noble friend Lord Freyberg, who has been with me all the way on this and given me huge support, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for her comments. On the Front Benches, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has always been a supporter and, at this particular point, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has guided me through the intricacies of ping-pong, which I was not aware of I have heard what the Minister has said, and have received a letter from the noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy. It is the end of the football season. We are now in extra time; we are still at a draw and could be facing penalty shoot-outs, but I am going to decline that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 54.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 55.
My Lords, the amendments in this group concern the regulation of the press and the processing of personal data for the purposes of journalism. First I will address Clauses 142, 168 and 169, which were added to the Bill by this House without the support of the Government, and which the Commons amendments now seek to remove. These clauses, and the issues they pertain to, have been subject to a great deal of passionate debate in both this place and the other. Since we previously discussed the Bill in this House, the Government have also published their response to the consultation on Section 40 and the future of the Leveson inquiry, to which these amendments relate, and have outlined their position in detail on these matters The Bill is about data protection and, as previously observed by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, during our last debate, it is therefore not the right forum for a debate on press regulation in the future. I hope to demonstrate that, even if it were, these clauses are simply not the solution to the problems faced by the press today to ensure that it is free, fair and sustainable Commons Amendments 106, 107 and 141 would remove Clauses 168 and 169, which were added to the Bill by this House. As they stand, these clauses would essentially introduce the provisions contained in Sections 40 and 42 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013, although they would apply only to breaches of data protection law. They would mean that any publication not regulated by Impress would be at risk of having to pay the legal costs for any complaint against them, whether they won or lost As I have already said, since we previously discussed the Bill in this House, the Government have published their response to the consultation on the future of Section 40. By way of update, then, I can tell the House that some 79% of direct responses favoured full repeal of Section 40, compared to just 7% which favoured full commencement. Many respondents cited concerns about the “chilling effect” that Section 40 would have on the freedom of the press. Andrew Norfolk, who uncovered the Rotherham child abuse scandal, has said that Section 40 would have made it “near impossible” to do his job. These clauses would also impose further financial burdens on already struggling local and national publishers, with 200 local newspapers having closed since 2005 I recognise, however, that the primary motivation behind this House originally inserting these clauses was to ensure that victims of press intrusion would have access to adequate redress. I can reassure your Lordships that enormous progress has been made on this front—some of it since the Bill left this House—making these cost provisions no longer necessary or proportionate In 2014, the old Press Complaints Commission was replaced by the Independent Press Standards Organisation. IPSO follows many of the principles set out in Sir Brian’s report and is fundamentally different to the PCC. It has a legally binding contract with the publications it regulates, which means that, if a publication fails to comply with IPSO’s orders, such as publishing a front page correction, it can face court action. Earlier this month, IPSO announced that it would create a compulsory low-cost arbitration scheme under which claims can be made for as little as £50, and all the major national newspapers that are IPSO members have signed up to it. This means that someone who has been wronged by a newspaper can, for the first time, ask for arbitration of their claim—and the newspaper cannot refuse. With the introduction of this scheme, IPSO has met one of the most important recommendations of the Leveson report and has ensured that ordinary people have a fair legal remedy that is quick and inexpensive. As Opposition noble Lords have previously acknowledged, once IPSO has met the majority of the standards for recognition established by the Press Recognition Panel, it is sensible to look afresh at this complex set of interrelated measures of inducements and penalties. Now is that time.
My Lords, I rise to speak to Amendment 62A, which states: “as an amendment to the Motion that this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 62, at end insert ‘, and do propose Amendment 62B instead of the words so left out of the Bill’” Let me explain why I have tabled this amendment after it was considered in the other place last week and narrowly defeated First, the need for completing this inquiry continues to grow. The illegal conduct which led to part 1 of Leveson is now known to be far more extensive and to go beyond phone hacking. More revelations emerge every week. It is an inquiry into criminality, corruption and abuse; in any other industry the press would be demanding an inquiry, and yet their opposition is uniform. We now know that the Sunday Times employed a blagger for 15 years to unlawfully access the phone accounts, utility bills and even bank accounts of ordinary people and government Ministers. The blagger, who has become a whistleblower, also said that they organised the theft of rubbish from the houses of Cabinet Ministers, published the stories they uncovered and then blamed it on a Civil Service leak. My noble friend Lord Turnbull was, it seems, moved to call in the Security Service to investigate the Cabinet Office mole, who never actually existed. This involved the personal details of the noble Lords, Lord Prescott and Lord Hague, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, and they are among hundreds of victims. This was concealed from part 1 of the Leveson inquiry by the same executives now campaigning to stop part 2. Noble Lords may have heard of similar behaviour by other newspapers Secondly, firm promises were made to victims of press abuse Thirdly, I believe that the arguments made against completion of the inquiry were misleading, and that the other place should reconsider the matter Finally, I have made some adjustments to the amendment which I believe will help the other place to reconsider it, if we are to pass it today. Let me explain these adjustments, made after listening carefully to the debate in the other place. The first addresses the concerns of the Democratic Unionist Party that part 1 of the inquiry could have examined the situation in Northern Ireland more closely. Just before last week’s debate, the DUP was made a last-minute offer by the Government: a non-statutory review with no powers of evidence or witnesses into press conduct in four years. Having considered the matter, I am proposing a change that addresses the party’s proper and reasonable concerns and puts it before Parliament Let me clarify how my amendment relates to that offer by the Culture Secretary. Last Wednesday, in response to a question from the DUP Member for North Antrim, the right honourable Ian Paisley, the Culture Secretary said that the Government plan to have, “a named person review the standards of the press in Northern Ireland”.—[Official Report, Commons, 9/5/18; col. 712.] This interchange came just before the Government, backed by the DUP, narrowly defeated the amendment that would have required the second stage of the Leveson public inquiry into media ethics to be completed. The Culture Secretary’s surprise announcement was welcomed by Mr Paisley who described it—and this is important—as a “Leveson for Northern Ireland” The National Union of Journalists called for absolute clarity on the scope and nature of any such review. The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport later explained that there is no review planned for Northern Ireland into press standards and that the Cairncross review of quality journalism is in fact UK-wide, specifically relates to examining media compliance with new data protection regulations and is to be undertaken by the Information Commissioner’s Office. The Culture Secretary referred to having a named person for Northern Ireland, but there will also be a named person appointed for Scotland and separately for England and Wales, and they will each feed into the overall review The other adjustment that I have made is specifically to exclude the local press from the scope of the inquiry. That will address the concerns of those who have argued, rightly or wrongly, that a public inquiry will somehow impose a burden on local newspapers. I will not rehearse the arguments for completing this inquiry again—we know them well—and the case for the amendment makes itself. It is an amendment to complete a public inquiry, repeatedly promised, to investigate allegations of illegality, corruption and improper conduct among newspaper corporations, the police and other media organisations responsible for holding personal data. As we all know, contrary to claims made by its opponents, these issues were excluded from part 1 and have never been properly investigated We are also familiar with the arguments against. These are, as I understand it, that this inquiry would be too expensive, would hurt local publications, would be a chill on free speech and would not be forward-looking. The honourable Member for North East Somerset in the other place said that the promises to victims of a previous Prime Minister can be ignored. None of those arguments has any validity Would any of us accept an argument that investigations into mass criminality or years of concealment in, say, social work or the building trade should be abandoned because they were too expensive? Exposing the full scale of corruption in the police and press is just as vital as are recommendations to ensure that they are never repeated. Abandoning a public inquiry will damage the credibility of other inquiries. What about the Grenfell Tower inquiry As for the local press, they were never the main subject of part 2 of the Leveson inquiry and under this amendment they are excluded entirely. It states: “In setting the terms of reference for the inquiry the Secretary of State must … include exemptions or limitations designed to exclude local and regional publishers from the scope of the inquiry” It could not be clearer It is also absurd to suggest that an inquiry designed to be transparent, to expose the truth and make fair and proportionate recommendations in the public interest could possibly interfere with free speech Finally, the inquiry is specifically designed to look forward as well as back by exposing the full extent of wrongdoing by examining the reforms that have actually been implemented since part 1. Part 2 will be able to make practical and proportionate recommendations for the next steps Both parts of the original inquiry were welcomed with huge cross-party support from both Houses. The relevant Select Committee in the other place, chaired by a Conservative, recommended unanimously that Leveson part 2 should proceed. The chair of the inquiry, Sir Brian Leveson, has recommended that it should proceed. I circulated his letter to some noble Lords today as a reminder. Many respected people have written to noble Lords today. I understand that Sir Harold Evans, the former editor of the Sunday Times, believes that part 2 is needed to restore integrity and public confidence in the press. Some 126 academics from 35 institutions, including former journalists and those teaching the journalists of the future, have also written, as has the mother of a victim following the Manchester Arena bombing, where press behaviour was, quite frankly, appalling. To cancel this amendment is an act of gross censorship. The promises to the victims of press abuse still hold. This Government are breaking those promises. What is the role of this House if not to ensure that the Government act with honour and integrity and are held to their word?
My Lords, it has been a long and hard struggle to attempt to convince the Government to meet their commitments to complete the Leveson reforms and, most importantly, complete part 2 of the Leveson inquiry. During earlier debates, I claimed not to know any celebrities who were not politicians. I apologise to the House because I should have inserted the caveat, “other than a world-famous international yachtsman” I agree with my noble and learned friend the Minister that we should accept the Commons rejection of my Amendment 147, which sought in effect to commence Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013 in respect of data protection. I shall try to explain why in a moment, but it has nothing to do with the merits First, I would like unreservedly to support the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, and her new amendment which seeks to commence the Leveson 2 inquiry. I agree with everything she has said, and I hope that she will seek the opinion of the House. If she does, I will be supporting her in the Lobby I am bound to say that the print media have consistently misrepresented the issues in question. For instance, it has been said that the noble Baroness and I hijacked this Bill to pursue our amendments. It is actually fair comment, but as any noble Lord who has been in opposition knows, it is a perfectly proper standard parliamentary procedure, and I am sure that my noble friend the Government Chief Whip has himself used this technique many times when he was in opposition It was also alleged that we cynically excluded politicians from the scope of the inquiry. This is simply not true. We did try to table an amendment that sought much wider terms of reference for the inquiry. Quite properly, the clerks advised us that we needed to restrict the scope of the amendment to data protection issues. It would, of course, be open to the Government to set wider terms to include politicians, and if a Conservative politician is alleged to have done something wrong, I am happy to see them explain themselves to the inquiry I turn to my amendments. When my noble and learned friend comes to reply, while he has explained the stick component of Section 40, will he remind the House of how its carrot component works, because I do not think that he mentioned it Although the Commons never actually divided on my amendments, they were fully debated and it is clear to me that there is no realistic prospect of the Commons changing their mind. There is no Salisbury problem with the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, because she genuinely believes that if we send it to the Commons, we may get a different answer. However, I would suggest that this will probably be the last roll of the dice. I feel bound to comment on the exceptionally effective campaign run, presumably, by the News Media Association. Whoever is running it knows what they are doing, although we have all been playing hardball. However, what is disturbing is that I have been silenced and skilfully suppressed nearly everywhere except in your Lordships’ Chamber, and therefore I am extremely grateful to the BBC programme, “The Big Questions”, for allowing me to contribute to yesterday’s debate. It is not clear to me why the Convenor of the Cross Bench Peers politely declined my offer to address the Peers on my amendment but nevertheless later allowed Sir Alan Moses, the chairman of IPSO, to address the Cross-Bench Peers. In the days immediately after our votes on Report, despite one national newspaper devoting three whole pages to criticising some noble Lords, my name was mentioned only once in any national newspaper, and I suspect that that was an accident. It is good that the press is supposed to be biased, opinionated and partisan Despite trying very hard, I was able to secure only two meetings to discuss the Leveson amendments with two Conservative MPs, and they had very good reasons to do so but nevertheless, quite understandably, they voted with the Government. Even the Leader of your Lordships’ House declined to have a meeting with me in the week preceding the vote in the Commons to discuss these problems—so much for free speech. The very same honourable Members who declined to meet me had helped to produce a majority of 530 to 13 in the vote to insert new Section 40 in the Crime and Courts Act 2013. What is going on I welcome the Government’s Cairncross review into the sustainability of the press. This is one of the Government’s arguments for not implementing Leveson. When I talked to my local editor, he was not worried about regulation; his problem was sustainability Recently, in accordance with the principal VAT directive, the appropriate tribunal decided that online publications would attract VAT at the standard rate. This is a tax on information and knowledge, when books and publications are exempt. The EU (Withdrawal) Bill has enough difficulties without me raising another one, and I do not want to tie the Minister’s hands, but can my noble and learned friend write to me—and perhaps to my noble friend Lord Black—to assure us that the appropriate officials are aware of the risk of negotiating away our freedom to zero-rate online publications post Brexit Much of the debate on Section 40 has centred on state regulation of the press. At the moment, unfortunately, we have covert state regulation because anyone in government, particularly sources close to No. 10, can suggest to the media that Ministers are reconsidering commencing Section 40. This is a completely unacceptable gun, held to the press’s head, which must be deactivated at the earliest possible moment. Worse still, it could inadvertently lead to the press self-censoring in the case of a story that might, in any case, make for difficult ethical and legal decisions for the editor concerned. Can the Minister indicate when this very short Section 40 repeal Bill will be presented to Parliament? If we are not to implement the Leveson press reforms, we need to commence part 2 of the inquiry to find out what has gone wrong in the past, ensure that it is not continuing and prevent it from recurring. As one of our briefings today put it, the past is a prologue for the future.
My Lords, I declare an interest as one of the few counsel who has acted in privacy cases for both the Daily Mail and Mr Max Mosley. I cannot support the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins. I remind your Lordships of what the Conservative Party manifesto said before the election last year: “Given the comprehensive nature of the first stage of the Leveson Inquiry and given the lengthy investigations by the police and Crown Prosecution Service into alleged wrongdoing, we will not proceed with the second stage of the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press” As your Lordships know, the Commons held a lengthy debate on this subject last Wednesday and voted not to institute a Leveson part 2. Your Lordships’ House has heard the pro and con arguments on many occasions I want simply to emphasise two points. Amendment 109 introduces extensive new powers on the Information Commissioner in relation to the press and, as the Minister has already indicated, it requires the commissioner to conduct a review of the press in the short term. Also, over the years, there have been not just police, and other, inquiries: a large number of civil actions—cases against the press—have been brought by phone-hacking victims. Those victims have not gone without remedy; they have received very substantial financial compensation, and rightly so. It is true that some of the claimants were celebrities, but many were not; they were victims of phone hacking because, for example, they were related to television actors or spent the night with a footballer. Reprehensibly, the press hacked their phones. They brought legal actions; the lawyers acted on a conditional fee basis. After the event, insurance ensured that there was no financial risk to the claimant, so it is simply not the case that victims of phone hacking lack, and have lacked, legal remedy. Newspapers have rightly been ordered to pay substantial sums by way of compensation. It is simply unrealistic to think, in the light of the criminal prosecutions and civil liability, that the message has not got across. I respect, of course, the views of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, and the others who support this amendment, but it really is time for this House to give way to the views of the Commons on this matter.
My Lords, I support what the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has just said. I also have the utmost respect for the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins. She has shown that she is a doughty campaigner; she passionately believes in her cause, and she has every right so to do I want to dwell on just one aspect: the relationship between the two Houses of Parliament. I hope that I have shown that I am not afraid to vote against the government line; I have done so frequently recently and I do not regret it, because I have done what I thought was right. When we take such a line, we ask the other place to think again. However much the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, may regret it, the other place has thought again. This is not the moment to introduce new amendments—to protract the ping-pong by bringing in a new ball. With proper deference to the elected House, we have to accept the line that it has taken. There are of course other arguments that one could deploy—it has been said that this is not the right Bill and all the rest of it—but the matter has gone to the other place; it has made its decision. We would be overemphasising our constitutional legitimacy if we sought to reject what it has said.
My Lords—
My Lords, I have some sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, has said, but equally I think that we are in danger of making this yes or no, black or white and getting ourselves boxed into corners. Something remarkable happened a couple of weeks ago. The Sun carried a story based on a report from the Resolution Foundation. I shall not go into the full details, but the Resolution Foundation had found that private renting was likely to increase by one-third over the next couple of decades and the Sun reported that there would be an 80% fall in owner occupation in that period, which it had somehow deduced from the one-third increase. That is not remarkable, but what is remarkable is that the charity Full Fact, of which I am deputy chairman, pointed out the error to it and—do you know what happened?—it apologised and corrected it This may just mean that the Sun has completely changed its coat and that, in future, we can expect page 3 to consist entirely of corrections of its errors, but there is another explanation, which is that the Sun realises, as does the whole press, the pressure that it is under from these Houses of Parliament and from the victims to mend its ways. The danger, however, is that that will last just so long as Section 40 has not been repealed and there is no Leveson 2, and then it will return to its old ways I think that there is a way through on this. In Amendment 109, the Government are introducing a requirement that the Information Commission review after four years how the press and media are getting on with data protection. If they were to widen that concept of a review after four years, it would keep the pressure on the newspapers to behave differently. I believe that they have made some progress. The institution of the arbitration scheme by IPSO, which was the glaring fault in its original constitution, was a big step forward even though it has its flaws. If we can keep the pressure on in the way that I suggest, by Ministers agreeing to extend Amendment 109 to a wider forum, we may find a solution to this mess without us having Lords versus Commons. Rather, we would meet a common need to have a better press free to report, as is its duty.
I am sorry for my earlier intervention. I thought the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, was a Labour Member. I declare an interest: I have twice been a victim of this. I do not have the clever words of the lawyers who constantly dominate this debate but we are talking about credibility, about a promise and about a Parliament that has agreed an action but is now about to reject it. That is a very important issue for both Houses to face. I say to the Minister that I support the noble Baroness’s amendment on a second inquiry. Indeed, I am pleased to see that Lord Leveson himself did so when the Government consulted him on it. To that extent, this is a political decision—a very political decision—that the Government have made I have three questions; I know that time is limited and I do not want to delay the House. My first question is based on my experience. I think that a second inquiry is necessary and should not just be into the events of the time. I do not think that things have changed, even with the so-called independent press body. We need to ask ourselves, what did the royal charter mean? When it was presented to the Commons, when I was still a Member there, we were told that the matter would be taken out of the political field—that it will be dealt with in a royal charter, we can all agree it together and there will be no division. Well, there is certainly division now, and it is still under the Queen’s charter. I ask the Minister: did they discuss this with the Privy Council or the Queen? We have actively involved her in a deliberate breach of a decision between the two Houses. We are, in that sense, divided. It is very political and on political lines, although it is all the opposition parties in the other place that have actually agreed on this. Did the Government consult the Queen on this? I was always told that you do not involve the Queen in the politics; that is why we use a royal charter. Well, by God, we have certainly involved her now, and we are divided. What is the position? Has she been advised about it and does she agree it? Is there any obligation to talk to her, and did the Government do so My second question concerns my interest as someone who was phone-hacked. I went to the courts and it was denied by everybody—by the press body, the police, the public prosecutor—so I had to win my case on the grounds of human rights, European human rights. I had to get it established that the hacking of my phone was a breach of my human rights. Since then, everybody has been telling me: “That is now the past; things have changed and you don’t have to worry. We can just get on with the business and not have a second enquiry”. Then, along comes the Sunday Times and Mr Witherow, its editor. We know from recent announcements in ongoing court cases that a man called John Ford was hired to commit criminal acts against individuals, including me and the Prime Minister at that time, Gordon Brown. It is clear from his statements, his bank accounts, his personal effects and the solicitors that we were all hacked and the victims of criminal acts by this Mr John Ford, who has made it absolutely clear everywhere that he was employed by Mr Witherow Now, of course, you might play around with the word “employed”, but he was paying him for 20 years. He might have been a separate investigator, but he was committing criminal acts and breaching the human rights of everyone involved. That has been announced in public statements by Mr John Ford. Indeed it was Mr Witherow who, when asked about the Leveson inquiry, when Gordon Brown was challenging him about things that happened then, said there was no truth in it. Well, Mr Witherow, you appear to be a liar. I know those are strong words used here, but you did not tell the truth, you did pay the money and you did commit criminal acts against people and breach their human rights. That, surely, in any democracy is wrong. Leveson showed it was wrong; he even pointed it out. We just ignored his recommendations. We are not entitled to do that, in my view. You can force the issue if you like and talk about the powers, telling us that we can disagree on day one but not on day two. You can say that as much as you like. There are very important issues involved here about the human rights of individuals. I am not talking about the real victims who have been betrayed by the Government, due to a manoeuvre with the Irish. But leave that aside—we can all have our opinions about that My third and final question is on something that I have never understood, although I have asked about it in every debate here. If the argument is about having these press regulations as recommended by Leveson, or most of them, why is it that they accuse us of a threat against democracy? They say that if editors are forced to register with government then that is the biggest threat to democracy. But I will ask again, although I never get an answer: why is it that every one of these newspapers registers in Ireland? The accountability in Ireland is controlled by a Minister in its Government but I think nobody is suggesting that there is no democratic accountability in Ireland. If the same newspapers can sign up for the same kind of accountability under a form of state regulation in Ireland, why can they not do it here? Perhaps they cannot do it here because of what they can get away with under a Government doing what they are at the moment Remember that there have been seven full inquiries into the press and they have always recommended a regulatory framework. That has always been defeated and it looks as if it will be defeated again. No doubt it will help among the press with me being just a politician. Perhaps it helps what they print if they have a Government supporting their issue. It might influence their opinion. For my mind, the issue is in the three questions that I have posed in all these debates. Why in Ireland? Why are they are at it again since Leveson, using illegal, criminal acts to breach the human rights of people? That is what the accusation was about and nothing has been done about it, except to protect them even further. As for the Queen, I would be interested to hear if it was talked over with her.
My Lords, I speak in support of the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, and in doing so I declare my interest as chair of the Manchester Arena review. Indeed, it is on this that I would like to speak first as it was referred to in the debate in the other House. I will come back to the noble Baroness’s amendment later. If your Lordships look at the terms of reference of the review, you will find no mention of us looking into the behaviour of the press. However, both the Mayor of Greater Manchester and the review panel were clear from the outset that the experiences of the bereaved families, the injured and others directly affected should be at the heart of the review process. It was through the contributions of those directly affected that the issues of media behaviour emerged The panel commissioned the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children to support its work. Over 200 contributions were received via the NSPCC, most through email and a dedicated phone line. Members of the panel also met with those directly affected to hear their experiences in person. The panel itself heard from the family and friends of 11 of the 22 people who died. These contributions were made on an individual basis. They were strictly confidential apart from the need, should it arise, to share them with the coroner. I salute their enormous courage in reliving that experience in order that we might learn for the future. On a personal level, I felt truly humbled by their contributions Most of the participants who commented on their experiences of the media in the aftermath of the attack were negative. People talked about being hounded and bombarded; about having to force their way through scrums of reporters at hospitals who “wouldn’t take no for an answer”. Specific mention was made of photos being sneakily taken through the glass windows at the Etihad Stadium, when the families were being given news of their bereavement. Several people told of the physical presence of crews outside their homes. One mentioned the forceful attempt by a reporter to gain access through their front door by ramming a foot in the doorway. There were at least two examples of impersonation I personally heard from a family whose daughter was visited by a reporter at their home and given condolences on the death of her brother, while her parents were at the Etihad stadium waiting to hear the news. This took place on the morning following the attack. The families were not told that their son was likely to be among the fatalities until later that day. In another case I heard I was told of an injured member of a family being rung on her mobile by a journalist while in a hospital ward recovering from multiple operations to deal with her injuries. I could go on, but noble Lords can read the account for themselves in chapter 2 of our report It is important to say that a number of families spoke in praise of the sympathetic reporting, particularly by the Manchester Evening News, but also by other papers local to the bereaved. But overall, the panel were shocked and dismayed by these accounts. To have experienced such intrusive and overbearing behaviour at a time of such enormous vulnerability seemed to us to be completely unacceptable. By any measure, these actions fell well below the standards set out in the editors’ code of conduct The report does not name individual publications or news channels. This is because neither we nor the families concerned where in a position to confirm, when a journalist said they were from a particular publication, that this was indeed the case. Nor have there been many individual complaints to IPSO. The level of trauma experienced by these families, which they were still living with when I met them, meant that even if they were aware of the opportunity to complain to IPSO, the reality is that that was very unlikely to happen. Their focus, quite rightly, was not on press intrusion but on coping with family tragedy—something that consumes most if not all of the time and energy available to them. But I am in no doubt that a number of journalists, albeit a minority, behaved very badly towards these very vulnerable families and it is highly unlikely that they were all from foreign media In contrast to the fire and rescue service and Vodafone, which immediately issued full apologies on the issues we raised, the response from IPSO and other representative organisations to our media findings was very disappointing. To his credit, though, the chair of IPSO, Sir Alan Moses, has in subsequent correspondence with me acknowledged the seriousness of the issues and IPSO has produced an action plan to address our recommendations It was not the role of the review’s report to comment on the wider ramifications for the press. Our focus was on what specific action could be taken to prevent this happening again. But there is a real relevance to our debate because it points to the fact that, whatever improvements have been made in recent years, real issues still remain about the behaviour of the press, and in significant parts of the press there is still denial about these issues. I should say that I am a passionate believer in the independence of the press and its importance in a free society. Indeed, to the annoyance of some of my colleagues in central and local government, I argued forcefully against new proposed restrictions to the Freedom of Information Act being put forward by the then Minister for the Cabinet Office, one Matt Hancock. It is certainly the first and probably the last time I will receive a favourable comment on the front page of the Daily Mail This love of papers was imbued in me from an early age. One of my father’s personal treats at the weekend was to buy a couple of extra newspapers to read. He always went for papers which did not reflect his particular views so that he could get a rounded picture. My love of newspapers, inherited from him, is not conditioned by whether or not they say kind things about me or even this House. If the price of having a free press is for noble Lords to put up with being described as “ripe for the abattoir”, that is a price worth paying. However, that licence cannot and should not be extended to ordinary members of the public who are vulnerable and not in a position to respond.
My Lords, I do not think anybody can listen to that description without being worried about the state of the press. There is no point pretending that everything is perfect. As a former and current practising journalist, I would not. I welcome the narrowing of the scope that the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, has suggested, particularly the exclusion of local newspapers, but I suggest that in recognising the importance of that she has also recognised the significant burden that the kind of wide-ranging inquiry she is proposing would place not only on those papers but on all the others that would be covered by the remaining scope The last time I had the temerity to speak in this debate, the noble Lord who spoke after me said that he had heard quite enough from journalists, thank you. Actually, there are very few journalists in this House and, I suggest, very few people who understand just how difficult the task of investigative journalism is. Although the issues we are immediately concerned with in the amendment are about the salacious nature of journalism, I fear that even this amendment would touch on some of the important issues that I, as an investigative journalist, have dealt with I won the Paul Foot Award for exposing miscarriages of justice in the courts. As a result of that the Labour Government changed the law, I am pleased to say. I was also involved in the exposure of the Rotherham sex-grooming scandal at the Times with Andrew Norfolk, who was referred to earlier. I believe that Andrew Norfolk’s view about Section 40, as expressed by the Minister, is very important. He is at the front line of investigative journalism and understands what that would actually mean in practice. This should not be just about revenge. If we are going to legislative effectively, we have to think about exactly what we are trying to achieve The noble Lord, Lord Prescott, suggested that nothing has changed since his experiences. I suggest that a great deal has changed, and other Members have referred to that. The landscape is different. IPSO is a tougher regulator. I was so disturbed by some of the events in Manchester that I contacted IPSO to find out how it had dealt with them and how many complaints had been made. In fact—I think the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, would agree—only one complaint was made to IPSO about the Daily Star; that complaint was upheld. There may be a problem, as he suggests, in that people could not trust exactly which publication they were talking to but we need to take that into account when we are reflecting on this We have heard today and in subsequent readings of the Bill about the significant new powers to be given to the Information Commissioner. I asked the Minister a question, which arose out of my ignorance, and was shocked to hear the scope of the new powers that are being so rapidly extended. We need to reflect on that again. As the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, said earlier, one of the powers the Information Commissioner will get under House of Commons Amendment 109 is to review journalistic application of data protection laws. I would rather wait and see how that pans out. I suggest to the noble Lord that that will put significant pressure on the press I do not like public inquiries. They tend to be a last resort for Governments who do not know what to do. They are extremely expensive and work only when they have a specific end in mind My real fear about the amendment is that the specific end that many of its supporters have in mind is to reopen precisely the questions and amendments we have been debating and which have been defeated in the House of Commons, in particular those relating to Section 14 of the Crime and Courts Act. If we launched yet another public inquiry, of which the public would not be greatly supportive, we would reopen a series of questions, some of which would go back over old ground. I appreciate the promise of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, to move forward—she is right on that—but we would open the door again to people who are keen to impose enormous costs and burdens upon the major newspaper groups. It would expose those groups to having to pay malicious damages in groundless, malicious lawsuits Let me remind noble Lords of the history of this House. When I arrived here I thought it was about defending free speech. I totally accept the concerns that have been raised—I do not believe that everything is perfect—but this amendment is not going to move us forward.
My Lords, standing on one leg will at least ensure my brevity. I declare an interest as deputy chairman of Telegraph Media Group I agree entirely with the comments of my noble friend Lord Cormack and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, about the advisability of sending this amendment back to the House of Commons. Were we to do so, we should remember a few points on the substance of the noble Baroness’s amendment First, we should always bear in mind that the amendment would produce yet another inquiry covering the same ground that has been ploughed over not only by the first Leveson inquiry but by three police investigations, at least three Select Committee inquiries, a Joint Committee of this House, the US Department of Justice and, in this country on the question of corporate liability, the DPP. There is little left to uncover Secondly since Leveson reported, there has been a genuine, wholesale change in press regulation. We have moved from a voluntary complaints handling service, chaired by my noble friend Lord Wakeham, to a system of tough, legally enforceable regulation with strong powers of sanction. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, that it is those tough legal powers which IPSO possesses that mean there could be no backsliding to the standards of the past Thirdly—this an important point we all need to bear in mind—since IPSO introduced a mandatory arbitration scheme in the past few weeks, there are virtually no lawful recommendations of Leveson that have not been introduced. It has produced a sea change in how newspapers are run, managed and deal with complaints, and in how journalists are trained and monitored Fourthly, since the first Leveson inquiry, the situation facing the press has changed dramatically. I note the noble Baroness seeks to cut out the local press from this but all publishers, including national ones, are under huge and sustained commercial pressure, which will not abate. It is a struggle for survival on a day-to-day basis, which will be made all the more complicated by having to wind the clock back 10 to 15 years to rake over a world which, frankly, no longer exists Fifthly, the biggest threat today to the sustainability of high-quality journalism comes from Google and Facebook, which are not even mentioned in the amendment. If we go down this route, in 20 years’ time people will ask why on earth this Parliament insisted on endlessly rerunning the repeats of an ancient black and white drama rather than looking at how journalism could survive in the global digital environment I have always been taught that this House must try to understand that, as an unelected Chamber, it needs at least to try to understand the realities of the outside world and take note of the will of the people. During a consultation on what is, in effect, this amendment, the people spoke in huge numbers and, by an overwhelming majority, rejected it. For all the reasons that I set out today, so should we.
My Lords, I know that my noble friend—
My Lords, I do not think the noble Baroness was here for the debate.
My Lords, I was here during the previous amendment; of course I was. I was here in relation to the whole matter concerning this amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins. I heard the references from the Front Bench to the particular part of the argument that has just been conducted, and I was here to hear the noble and learned Lord, Lord Keen, speak about what was happening with this amendment and what had happened in the Commons. I shall carry on because I do not accept the comment made by the noble Lord I support the position of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, for a number of reasons. One is that the question of ethics, and the ethics of the media, has really not been dealt with adequately so far. The other matters that really concern me are those concerning the police. So far, I am afraid, the police have got off rather lightly in the course of investigations into what took place regarding media misbehaviour. Unlike other lawyers—I know my noble friend Lord Prescott has a poor view of lawyers—I do not act for newspapers and have not done, nor do I have a column in any newspaper. However, I have acted for victims who have gone through court processes, I have acted for defendants who are on trial and I have acted in inquests, and I have to say that the story with regard to police behaviour is not good. Too often—I know this from direct experience—there have been leaks and tip-offs to the media by the police when people have been invited into police stations to be interviewed. Perhaps they are suspected or they are going to assist in an inquiry, but they end up being met at the police station doors by photographers and journalists. They are exposed to speculative pieces about why they were being seen by the police, and often they are chased and stalked by the paparazzi as a result You have to ask yourself why that happens. I am afraid that journalists covering criminal courts over the years have told me that often they would basically have police officers in their back pockets, and that meant the pocket that had their wallet in it. What was offered to police were bungs, pay-offs and “drinks”, as they were called euphemistically, for providing those tip-offs. They happen still, and they have happened subsequent to the Leveson inquiry: people who have been asked to come to police stations to be interviewed with regard to sexual matters but have not been charged—and no charges have, in the end, been forthcoming—have found themselves over the front pages of newspapers. At this very moment, Sir Cliff Richard is involved in litigation regarding that kind of collusion and coalition between the media and the police. I am concerned that the police still not have not been looked at adequately for the role they have played in some of this particularly iniquitous conduct The second part of Leveson seems of real importance to the well-being of our nation. If there is corruption in our police—if they are able to do this and to supplement their incomes by doing it, and there is money available in the media to do it—we know that something is seriously wrong. I hope the House has that in mind. Sometimes the purpose of a public inquiry is to air such matters and make clear the seriousness with which such corruption and misbehaviour is viewed.
My Lords, I should declare a few interests. The first is that I was the victim of a kiss and tell story in a Sunday tabloid newspaper: front page and eight inside pages. I was also, separately, the victim of phone hacking. Thirdly, I joined the noble Lord, Lord Prescott, in his civil action under the Human Rights Act. Fourthly, I am a former senior police officer Briefly, on the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and the rather rosy picture he has of civil actions being taken by victims of phone hacking, and referencing what the noble Lord, Lord Black, said about the reality of what goes on outside, my reality was that yes, I had lawyers working on a conditional fee agreement—no win, no fee. I was told at the beginning of the process that I could get insurance against losing. Three months into the action, when tens of thousands of pounds been spent by both sets of lawyers, it was established that I could not get insurance against losing. If I had stopped the action at that point, I would have had to pay the costs not only of the newspapers’ lawyers but my lawyers, because a conditional fee agreement works only if you go through with the action and then lose. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for ordinary people to take on newspapers through the courts in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, presented it to the House earlier I say to the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, that, yes, the other place considered a previous amendment that we put to them. This is a different amendment. It addresses many of the concerns expressed in the other place, and the other place should have the opportunity to consider this amendment The noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish of Little Venice, and the noble Lord, Lord Black of Brentwood, both talked about the enormous burdens on major newspaper groups. We need to consider the enormous burdens placed on innocent victims of the media.
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish, made the point that there were few journalists here. As far as I know, the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, and I are the only remaining film-makers—and I think that we do know how to edit. I would very much like to support the amendment perfectly set out by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins. It should not be necessary to say this in your Lordships’ House but, once again, I reiterate that I am the proud son of a journalist and would die in a ditch to protect a responsible and fearless free press. But freedom of any sort brings its own responsibilities, and the greatest of these is the sustaining of trust. This short debate is all about trust. The Minister in another place said he was being “forward-looking”. I am sure that I speak for many in this House when I suggest that the most forward-looking ambition that we share is the possibility that we might, over time, regain the trust of the people of this country in the quality and integrity of Parliament. As I see it, this ambition trumps all others—and to judge by recent coverage in our national press we are not coming from a particularly good place in that respect On the evidence of the past 20 years or so, much of the national press takes the position that its role in society is so important that Parliament needs to get over itself, and understand that in the real world you cannot make omelettes without breaking eggs. The view that it appears to advance is that, to remain sustainable, injustice, distortion, deception, abuse and even at times criminality are the price that society is required to pay for a robust, unfettered press. What if the Church took a similar position with regard to misconduct in its own ranks, or our judges argued that an acceptance of illegal practice in the collection of evidence was a necessary price to pay in the pursuit of justice? At the height of the financial crisis we came close to being persuaded by the banks that their reckless behaviour was justified by the pressures placed on them by their shareholders. I would argue, as has been very well put many times during the passage of this Bill, that society cannot afford the luxury of entirely unconstrained freedoms—not in the law, the Church, the financial sector, social media and even the press The reasons why Leveson 2 is necessary were well explained by the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, in setting out her amendment. Personally, I have not the slightest doubt that such a review would reveal an extensive and entirely improper set of relationships between the press, politicians and the police, with the very real possibility that significant cases of actual obstruction of justice would come to light. It seems just possible that, in that making that suggestion, I have stumbled across the real reason for the Government’s desire to scrap this second and, to my mind, more important inquiry I have just two specific questions to put to the Minister. First, having checked, I can find no record of the former Prime Minister having expressed a view on the unprecedented repudiation of his commitment to Parliament, let alone the breach of his well-publicised personal promises to the victims of press abuse. Has he been asked about, and has he indeed endorsed, the recent decision by the Secretary of State? Is Mr Cameron prepared to meet the victims to explain what factors or new revelations encouraged him to change his mind on this matter—if he has? Possibly the Minister, or even the media, might choose to inquire. Further, does Minister feel that the precedent set by the decision to scrap Leveson 2 is likely to enhance or diminish the likelihood of overcoming the challenge I referred to at the outset—the ambition of all responsible politicians to develop greater public belief in the honesty and integrity of Parliament in general and of the Government that he serves in particular?
My Lords, I declare an interest as a television producer who has been involved in investigative programmes for the BBC and other channels. I listened with horror to the stories of victims that my noble friend Lord Kerslake told, and I am assure that I was as appalled as the rest of the House. In previous debates, my noble friend Lady Hollins has also talked about victims’ stories, which must also have appalled us all. However, I ask the House to consider how the amendment could rebalance the relationship between the right to privacy of the individual and the right to freedom of expression, in favour of the former I am particularly concerned about proposed new subsection (3)(f) of the amendment, which looks innocent enough—and I think that it would help the victims of phone hacking, which of course is something I welcome. However, it might come at a terrible cost to freedom of expression. This morning I spoke to a number of representatives of the most responsible newspapers and broadcasters about their fears over this proposed new subsection. They are concerned that switching the balance between free speech and the privacy rights of the individual will raise the bar for the way in which publication in the public interest is viewed by the courts. As someone who has worked in the media for many years, I fear that even the prospect of the bar being raised will have a chilling effect on investigative journalism. Editors will be afraid to commission investigative stories for fear of not being able to publish them. Likewise, it will empower lawyers who want to defend the privacy of wealthy individuals I have looked at the case brought against the BBC and the Guardian newspaper for the publication of the Paradise papers, which exposed no illegality but revealed, on an industrial scale, the avoidance of paying British tax by huge corporations and wealthy individuals. The purpose of the publication was not only to expose the actions of individuals and corporations but to focus British public and political opinion on the nature of offshore investments and tax avoidance—which I would argue is definitely in the public interest. Yet the lawyers at Appleby, the offshore legal firm at the centre of the Paradise papers affair, used a breach of confidence case against the media’s use of privileged documents to target the organisations involved The case has been settled, but if it had gone to full trial the judge would have had to weigh up the right to privacy of the individual against the public interest in publishing the documents. In all these cases, editors must take into account the possibility of losing, even when publication is demonstrably in the public interest. An inquiry into rebalancing rights of privacy against freedom of expression will further increase that anxiety. I am not concerned just about the rebalancing of rights to the detriment of free speech; I am also concerned that this amendment will be a distraction from the implementation of a complicated series of new legal powers introduced by the Bill. Many of these will be challenged by the courts and will consume a huge amount of time on the part of media organisations, as all sides struggle to ensure that the very worthwhile measures set out in the Bill are put into full effect. The amendment is retrospective and potentially damaging to the Bill and to free speech in this country. I urge noble Lords to vote against it.
My Lords, I regret that I cannot support the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins. This has been a passionate debate so far and there is, no doubt, more to come. However, there has been a definite lack of balance. There has been no mention of the good that the press has done over the many decades that I have been a newspaper reader. We can go back to Harry Evans and thalidomide; to MPs’ expenses in the Telegraph; we can talk about phone hacking itself, which was exposed by newspapers; the noble Viscount has just brought the Paradise papers to the attention of the House Addressing myself to the amendment, I have spent a lifetime on both sides of the media fence, as editor-in-chief of ITV and Channel 4; as a Daily Mirror sports journalist 150 years ago, when Charlton Athletic used to win; and, too often, as the subject of media scrutiny and—putting it at its most charitable—the victim of some very painful criticism. I have several reasons for opposing the amendment. First, if there is a principle underlying the proposed new inquiry into the press et cetera, how can regional newspapers be exempt? Is it a principle or is it not? If there is a problem, pleading poverty should not excuse you Secondly, lumping the press and broadcasting with social media on the issue of misuse of data is to misunderstand entirely the nature of the problem we face. Newspapers and broadcasters are governed very strictly in their handling of data, not only by regulators but by the Information Commissioner’s Office, with a carefully crafted exemption for public interest data searches. The ICO is a statutory body with draconian powers which it is not afraid to exercise. We know that Facebook and its ilk are displaying scant regard for data privacy. I am sure that noble Lords all agree that the Cambridge Analytica issue is the tip of the iceberg. Traditional media offer no evidence to justify this lumping together in the amendment Thirdly, I suspect that lying behind the amendment is yet another attempt to exercise some statutory controls or levers over our free media. Any inquiry, not least that envisaged by this amendment, is bound to produce recommendations, with the risk to free speech of some statutory device, overt or covert, buried in them.
My Lords, I too respectfully resist this amendment. I will touch on one point: the suggestion that Leveson 2 was promised and the Government are now brazenly breaking that promise. I suggest that that is not so. Were the public inquiry required by this amendment to go ahead, it would be a very different inquiry from that which was originally contemplated and promised by way of a further stage of Leveson. Consider the differences between Amendment 142 that this House originally passed, confined as that was to news publishers, and extending as it did to regional and local newspapers. That is totally different from the amendment now suggested, which is almost the same as the one that was rejected by the other place last week Consider the differences in the legal landscape—IPSO, about which much has been said. I should perhaps declare that I was one of the body of five who appointed IPSO, but that is hardly the point. Lord Justice Moses was a colleague of mine, as was Lord Justice Leveson, and both are of equal seniority and equally high reputation Consider all that has been learned from the series of cases since Leveson 1. While certainly not agreeing to the abandonment of any further inquiry, Leveson himself recognised changes in the legal landscape in the letter that has been referred to, referring on page 5 to how, “the guidance from the College of Policing regarding Media Relations represents significant change”, and recognised the fact that work is currently under way on a digital charter. This inquiry would also require investigation into issues which, frankly, have nothing very obviously to do with this Bill on data protection. It would require an investigation into whether suspects should be named before charge or conviction. That is a difficult, important and interesting question, but it is not something that obviously arises now Inquiries are sometimes compellingly necessary, but it is no good pretending that they are invariably the panacea that they are cracked up to be. Note some of the difficulties in, for example, the historical sex abuse inquiry, the inquiry into undercover policing and so on. I respectfully suggest that a further inquiry is not required here My noble friend Lord Pannick is not always right. You have only to read his column in last week’s Times which extolled your Lordships decision to maintain the European Charter of Fundamental Rights despite Brexit to realise that he is not always right. But right he is on this issue, and I suggest that your Lordships do not pass this amendment.
My Lords, I strongly support the amendment. I declare an interest: I understand that Mr John Ford has alleged that 15 years ago he went through my rubbish on a regular basis at the request of the Sunday Times. I find it impossible to believe that anyone would find my rubbish interesting. That has had no effect whatever on my opinions with regard to this issue, and I supported the continuation of Leveson 2 even before I discovered that Mr John Ford had apparently been going through my rubbish I am strongly of the view that this House should send the amendment back to the Commons for further consideration, for the following reasons. First, there is no doubt, despite what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, just said, that there was an unequivocal promise by the House of Commons and this House that there be part 2 of Leveson. I quote the then Prime Minister: “One of the things that the victims have been most concerned about is that part 2 of the investigation should go ahead … and that is fully our intention”.—[Official Report, Commons, 29/11/12; col. 458.] That was said by the Prime Minister, Mr David Cameron, after the delivery of part 1. To my mind it is incredibly important that, if you set up a public inquiry, before the public inquiry has been able to reach findings on who was responsible for what happened—probably because of pressure from the people who might be responsible—the second part of that public inquiry is not scrapped. But that is what is happening here. My experience of when the justice system fails is that the victims feel that they have nowhere to go, and that corrodes not just their view of the justice system but a large number of people’s view of it. I particularly have in mind the Hillsborough victims, who were denied justice by a coroner’s system and who felt that the whole justice system let them down The noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, says, “Oh, things have changed”. Who is the best judge of that? I suggest it is Sir Brian Leveson, who said that, “there is still a legitimate expectation on behalf of the public and, in particular, the alleged victims of phone hacking and other unlawful conduct, that there will be a full examination of the circumstances that allowed that behaviour to”, take place. He said that when he was consulted on the question of whether part 2 should be scrubbed Therefore, I regard the promise as important and the reneging of it as something that will corrode justice. It will affect not only the victims but other people, and I utterly reject the complacency of the noble and listed Lord, Lord Cormack, to the effect that we should not press this any further. Yes, we sent the Bill back with a clause which the Commons took out, but the right thing for this House to do is to ask them to think again, particularly when last time there was a majority of nine. If we debate this well and give the reasons, it is worth doing Therefore for me, the first point is the promise. The second point is that the problem is still there. The speech given by the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, was appalling, not in its quality but in what it told us. The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, suggested that the solution to this was “civil litigation or criminal proceedings”. Can you imagine the people that the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, described, who have been hounded—his word—by the press, thinking of bringing civil litigation to complain that the first they heard that their loved one had died was when a representative of the press came round? Pull the other one! Get out of the courts and think about what the real world is like Then people said that IPSO had made a difference—the IPSO that two weeks ago, in the face of this Bill going through Parliament, in a great rush and with no explanation of why it had not done it before, suddenly introduced a low-cost arbitration scheme. Why did it do it? It did it because Parliament was breathing down its neck. If Leveson 2 is got rid of, let us be under no illusion that that will be the end of that. Things will be just as they have been in the past. I cannot remember which Peer described IPSO as absolutely marvellous. It might have been the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood. No, I am sorry; it was another noble Lord. So far IPSO has not imposed a single fine; it has not demanded a single equal-prominence front page direction; and it has not launched a single systematic inquiry, as it has the power to do. There have been 8,000 complaints about hate crime so far and only one has been upheld. We should not accept the proposition that IPSO has solved the problem The fourth reason it is said that we should not have this inquiry is that, as the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish of Little Venice, said, it would threaten to chill investigative journalism. However, what is being proposed here is not a specific provision to change the press. It is for a judge of standing to see what should be done next, and I have absolutely no doubt that a new judge would be able to do so, having no doubt heard the evidence from the people the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, was speaking to on the telephone this morning, and just as Sir Brian Leveson managed to do Fifthly, people ask, “What about social media?” Exactly: what about social media? Facebook and so on are a real problem, and that is why the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, has included social media in her proposed new subsection (3)(d). Sir Brian Leveson wants to have part 2 of the inquiry and it has been amended to deal with the changes. It would be a disgrace and a betrayal of the victims if we did not go ahead with it. I strongly support the amendment.
My Lords, first, I declare former interests as the last chair of the Press Complaints Commission between 2011 and 2014, and then as the first chair of the new Independent Press Standards Organisation, IPSO, together with my other interests as set out in the register As the Secretary of State said in his Statement of 1 March this year, repeated here, we all owe a great debt of gratitude to Sir Brian Leveson. His inquiry and subsequent report showed rigour, diligence and a judicious balance between competing interests. When his report was published in December 2012, Lord Justice Leveson recommended a new, tougher form of voluntary self-regulation of the press. As chair of the PCC at the time, I welcomed his proposals and suggested that they should be implemented in full. The Leveson proposals were largely implemented between 2012 and 2014, but I was not able, at that stage, to persuade the newspaper industry to embrace them in their entirety. Since then, under my successor, Sir Alan Moses, the new arrangements have bedded down and IPSO has gradually become more and more compliant with the Leveson recommendations I strongly welcome the introduction of the new arbitration scheme, which was introduced not in a rush, as the noble and learned Lord has just said, but after extensive consultation, and it is a major step forward. I say to a number of other speakers that illegal activity, as distinct from breaches of the editors’ code, is best dealt with by the police and the courts, and that has now largely happened—belatedly, yes, but also comprehensively.
The amendment includes the words, “to investigate the dissemination of information and news, including false news stories” It would have said “fake news” but the draftspeople said that that would not be the right way to term it. Therefore, I think it covers the sorts of things that the noble Lord thinks it should, or am I wrong?
I raise fake news as an issue not because it is or is not covered by the amendment but because it must concern us all, particularly as a society There are good reasons for rejecting the amendment. It would be an analogue inquiry in an overwhelmingly digital age. It would also—rightly, in my view—be seen as yet another attempt by politicians to meddle in the internal affairs of news media and, ultimately, to muzzle free expression This country, which should be a beacon of free expression in a world bedevilled by state censorship, has just fallen from 30th to 40th in the global ranking for free speech, according to a survey conducted by independent minds right across the world. Let that sink in, my Lords: from 30th to 40th. It is shaming. What message are we now to send out? That the free media are enemies of the state? They may be unruly and they may challenge us in ways that make us uncomfortable, but they are not our enemies. Furthermore, it concerns me that we are playing around with the Salisbury convention. The noble and learned Lord has just spoken about promises. As the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, pointed out, this amendment flies directly in the face of last year’s Conservative Party manifesto. On page 80, that document said, “we will not proceed with the second stage of the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press” That was pretty clear. I know that the Labour Party had a euphoric moment after the last general election, almost persuading itself that it had won, but it did not I take no comfort from the qualifying words that the noble Baroness has added to her amendment this time around. We are dealing here with profound matters that touch on the very basis of our society and our political philosophy, and the question of whether we truly cherish our freedom of expression and our free media. I suppose ping-pong can be an enjoyable pastime but at some point the views of the elected House must prevail. I have the utmost respect for the noble Baroness and the greatest sympathy for the unacceptable treatment that she and her family, and far too many others, have received from the press. Having said that, I sincerely hope she will not seek to divide the House again on this matter.
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Grade, said, this has been a passionate and, actually, very balanced debate. A number of noble Lords have expressed concern about the amendment before us and have, sort of, made a case against it When the noble Lord, Lord Black, came in, struggling on his crutches, I did think: is there no end to which this man will not go to get sympathy from this House? I wish him a speedy recovery When introducing the debate, the Minister said first that these amendments have no place in the Bill because it is about data protection and then began to dazzle us with the number of government amendments that pertain to the media. Of course it is perfectly sensible that this matter should be in the Bill By the way, I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish, that I did not say I object to journalists but to journalists at the Times. She mentioned the growing power of the ICO in all this, which is something that the press should think hard about. The press have been so busy trying to avoid having a proper regulator for themselves that they find themselves well and truly regulated by a powerful ICO. Where the ICO does not regulate the press, the courts may with some of the judgments that are coming down the track As always, the perorations against, as with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, have been about freedom and liberty, as though we on this side are not as passionate in our defence of those. Today’s debate has produced the usual press stories that crop up when either House debates the issue. They always either rubbish one or other of the more popular proponents of reform or carry, as did the Evening Standard just before the Commons debate, such headlines as that from the Commons Culture Minister, Margot James: “We will lose freedom of the press if MPs back new curbs”. It is my belief that the real defenders of press freedom are not the Ministers scrambling to close Leveson down but those of us who want to see a press that is respected and trusted, as well as free When the Commons debated our amendment, Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg, the new Erskine May, said rather imperiously that Parliament had every right to renege on promises made by a predecessor. Of course, he is right—we know that, Jacob. However, it is also a long and honourable convention that there is a continuity of responsibility from one Parliament and one Government to another. We saw it last week when the Prime Minister gave a full and unequivocal apology to the Libyan family for Britain’s part in their rendition and subsequent torture, although it did not happen on her watch. The long tradition of continuity of responsibility means that a promise given by one Prime Minister and one Parliament is unlikely to be abandoned by another. There is a double matter of honour when the promise in question was made by a Prime Minister of the party now in power. David Cameron gave such commitments, and the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, gives the House of Commons a way of redeeming that promise while taking into account the passage of time since it was made I often find that, when I am indignant having read in the newspaper or seen on TV some summing up or sentence by a judge, my lawyer friends will say, “Ah, but the judge who has heard all the evidence is the best placed to make a balanced judgment on the matter”. In this case, we have the balanced judgment of Sir Brian Leveson himself. Let us remember, after the speeches of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, that Sir Brian had all the information they had to make their speeches but came to a different conclusion: that it should go on. As I said when the Leveson letter first came up, here is the third most senior judge in the land taking six pages in a very carefully argued letter to give his views on the inquiry on which he spent a year of his life. Some noble and learned Lords in the House should have a little modesty when challenging his judgment because it is absolutely clear that Leveson 2 should go ahead. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, has already quoted from the letter, so I will not waste time The amendment before us is proportionate to the task at hand in addressing issues not yet adequately addressed. It redeems a solemn promise made by our Prime Minister and our Parliament. Jodie Ginsberg, the CEO of Index on Censorship, when briefing against these proposals before the Commons debate, said that she wanted, “a free, vibrant, independent and troublesome media” So do I, and so does the proposer of the amendment. The biggest threat to a free, vibrant, independent and troublesome media is one so held in public contempt because of corrupt and illegal practices that few defenders will come to its aid if press freedom is really threatened I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish, that, when the Leveson inquiry exposed sins and criminality, the Government of the day could at that time have done anything they liked to the press. What they did was make a strong attempt to create something as far from political control as possible—I was one of the privy counsellors who signed the royal charter. It is absolutely false to claim that the attempt was to create a state-controlled press. That was never on the table and it is not on the table now The noble Earl, Lord Attlee, who has been brave in carrying through on Section 40, has said that we will not press it beyond tonight. I am interested to see which bit of legislation will include its repeal and how that will be favoured when it comes back to us. I say to the Minister: this is not the end of Section 40 Tonight, we are looking for something more. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, and the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, have shown, we are looking at something for the victims. The noble Baroness, Lady Cavendish, should note that it is also something for journalists who need protection from being bullied into illegal acts by their employers. Most of all, it is for our own self-respect in keeping a promise made. I urge support for this amendment.
My Lords, we are 90 minutes in and we have heard lots of familiar tropes rehashed and replayed, but have we achieved very much in this debate? While sitting here I have been wondering how on earth one brings together the two very different sides that are emerging in this debate. I whispered to my colleagues on my right and left asking for help and support, and all I got was, “You need the judgment of Solomon on this”, and I do not have that. However, we are going to ask noble Lords to vote on this issue, and so I want us to think very hard about what we have been doing here.
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, for setting out the thinking behind her Amendments 62A and 62B. As we have heard, they seek to insert an amended version of Clause 142 into the Bill, in contrast to the Commons amendments, which would remove it. I have already set out the Government’s reasons for opposing the inclusion of Clause 142 in this Bill, and I regret to say that the modest changes proposed by Amendments 62A and 62B do not change that analysis. In particular, nothing in the amendments answers the fundamental challenge that creating a further public inquiry is neither necessary nor proportionate at this point in time. I remind noble Lords that it was this present Government, following a public consultation and in implementing a manifesto commitment, who took the present step, which was approved in the other place. My noble friend Lord Cormack alluded to the fact that the other place had already addressed this issue. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, came back with an accusation directed against my noble friend Lord Cormack of complacency. I have seen my noble friend accused of many things, but complacency is certainly not one of them. I regard that accusation as utterly misplaced and inappropriate Indeed, I take issue with some of the other factual assertions made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, in particular his assertion that no front-page apology had appeared in any IPSO publication since it was founded. I think he will find that may be borne out upon a reading of the Times in the recent past.
My statement was that no front-page apology of equal prominence has been made mandated. Am I wrong about that?
I do not believe that the noble and learned Lord chose his words very carefully previously. As I understand it, IPSO did mandate a front-page apology in the Times.
Equal prominence!
All things are relative I appreciate that a great deal of passion has been exhibited, and indeed the noble Lord, Lord McNally, talked about a passionate and balanced debate; it has been both. It has certainly been balanced when we consider the contributions made on all sides of the House. However, I would seek to touch on one or two points that have been raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, raised the question of Northern Ireland. To clarify in respect of that matter, the commitment made last week did not relate to the Cairncross review; it related to the review that would be carried out pursuant to Commons Amendment 109, in particular paragraph 4 which refers to a review that will take into account all parts of the United Kingdom and will ensure that there is an independent named reviewer for Northern Ireland. I hope that that covers the point My noble friend Lord Attlee raised certain issues with regard to VAT. He is right about VAT on e-publications, which are classified as electronic services. EU VAT law specifically excludes such services from the reduced rate of VAT. Further consideration of that matter is beyond my pay grade and is one for Her Majesty’s Treasury in due course, so I shall not elaborate upon that. As regards the repeal of Section 40, the Government are committed to doing that at an appropriate time on the basis of appropriate legislation, so the noble Lord, Lord McNally, can anticipate that coming forward in due course I shall move on to certain points that were raised by the noble Lord, Lord Prescott. On the royal charter, the Press Recognition Panel, which was set up by the charter, remains a feature of our regulatory landscape so there is no need to intrude upon the charter or to consult further on it at the present time. On his reference to the Sunday Times and the allegations regarding John Ford, that was a matter of self-incrimination as far as I can see in respect of criminal acts that took place before 2011; they are not recent events. On the position regarding Ireland, the press may sign up to the Press Council of Ireland, but they are not obliged to do so, in order to secure the benefits of being members of that council. They may approach that by a different regulatory regime, provided that it has suitable terms, so I do not consider that we can go immediately to that Reference was made by the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, to the Manchester Arena review. I appreciate his direct involvement in that, and of course we recognise that for the victims and their families, dealing with the media at such a time can be very distressing. In fact, the Government have recently published guidance for victims and their families on handling media attention in the aftermath of similar events, but diverse reports with regard to the media have come out of that. As the noble Lord observed, only one complaint was made to IPSO regarding the conduct of the regulated media at Manchester, and on 24 April 2018 at a meeting of the National Police Chiefs’ Council on media engagement, the senior press officer at Greater Manchester Police observed that after the Manchester Arena bombing, the media had been exceptional and had treated everyone involved with the utmost respect. In her view, the only qualification was in respect of certain international outlets and social media which had caused families problems. There are clearly diverse views—
I want to put a question to the Minister. Does he not accept that families experiencing this level of trauma and distress are simply not in a position to make formal complaints to IPSO? It is a failed and incorrect test of the extent of the issue.
With respect, that is not the test. Of course, families in this situation are placed in a very difficult position and we recognise that. I do not know if the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, had an opportunity in the course of preparing his report to actually interview the senior press officer at Greater Manchester Police, although he will be aware of the view she has expressed with regard to the media’s behaviour, but he did not mention that in his earlier speech to the House. There are diverse views and interpretations of what was happening at the time.
Does the Minister believe that the reputation of Parliament is enhanced or diminished by the refutation of the commitment made by the former Prime Minister?
It is neither. It is a situation in which we have moved on and, as I say, the Government have, following a public consultation, implemented a manifesto commitment. It is in those circumstances that we are proceeding.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 56 to 61.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 62.
At end insert “, and do propose Amendment 62B instead of the words so left out of the Bill”.
I thank all noble Lords who have spoken and for supporting this amendment, and I should just say that I do not enjoy ping-pong. The amendment returned from the Commons was defeated by only nine votes and I have endeavoured to address the concerns raised in the three adjustments that I have made to the amendment. I want to make a couple of brief comments about those First, the amendment addresses the DUP’s proper and reasonable concerns in a transparent way by offering a proper inquiry into press conduct in Northern Ireland. Secondly, I have made an adjustment to exclude the local press from the scope of the inquiry altogether. Thirdly, in response to misrepresentations in some parts of the media, I have added a requirement for the inquiry’s recommendations to take full account of the need for freedom of the press to achieve a vibrant and independent media, and the importance of the independence of the press from Government Holding an inquiry will not restrict freedom; rather, it will support it by shining a spotlight on what has been done illegally and unethically to the detriment of hundreds of ordinary people, including my daughter and my family before I became a Member of your Lordships’ House. As explained by my noble friend Lord Kerslake regarding his findings after the Manchester Arena bombing, there is no evidence that enough lessons have been learned by all sections of the media or that there is adequate accountability. I do not consider that the review by the Information Commissioner is in any way a substitute for completing the inquiry. The job has not been done, and with respect to IPSO, I believe I am right in saying that so far only around 12 of more than 90 of Sir Brian Leveson’s recommendations have been implemented. In formally moving my amendment, I wish to test the opinion of the House.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 63 to 114.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 115.
My Lords, the main amendments in this group relate to the representation of data subjects by not-for-profit bodies. Last time we discussed this matter, the question before us was whether those bodies should have to seek the mandate—that is, the consent—of data subjects before pursuing claims on their behalf. As I said then, “the Government have reflected on the principles at stake here and agree it would be reasonable for a review to be undertaken, two years after Royal Assent, of the effectiveness of”— Clause 183— “as it is currently drafted. The Government are fully prepared to look again at the issue”, of representation without prior mandate in the context of that review “We are serious about this. We will therefore amend the Bill in the other place to provide for such a review and to provide the power for the Government to implement its conclusions”.—[Official Report, 10/1/18; col. 287.] Commons Amendments 122 and 123 duly deliver on that promise, while Commons Amendment 121 allows the Secretary of State to make regulations to ensure that, where a not-for-profit seeks to represent a large number of data subjects in court proceedings, it can file one claim and not hundreds I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, for her continued engagement on this subject. She and I are in total agreement that children merit specific protection in relation to their personal data, and that the review should look accordingly at the specific barriers young people face in exercising their rights. Therefore, Commons Amendment 122 makes provision for that in subsections (4), (5) and (6) of the proposed new clause. Of course, as some noble Lords have mentioned previously, such provision is not to the exclusion of other vulnerable groups in our society, and the Government fully expect that review to consider their position, too Commons Amendment 126 would allow Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs to share contact detail information with the Ministry of Defence to ensure that the Ministry of Defence is better able to locate and contact members of the ex-regular reserve. The amendment does not alter the liability for ex-regular reserves, nor does it affect the rules regarding the call-out or recall of ex-regular reserves; it is simply about being better able to contact them. The security of the United Kingdom is the primary responsibility of government. Commons Amendment 126 offers us the opportunity to strengthen that security Finally, Commons Amendment 282 would insert a schedule making transitional, transitory and saving provision in connection with the coming into force of the Bill, including provision about subject access requests, the Information Commissioner’s enforcement powers and national security certificates. This comprehensive new schedule, running to some 19 pages, is designed to ensure a seamless shift between the 1998 Act and the new data protection law we are scrutinising today. I beg to move.
I thank the Government for listening, the Bill team, the Secretary of State and the Minister, Margot James. The point is that rights are only as good as one’s ability to enact them, so I really welcome the review and I thank all concerned for the very great care and detail with which they have laid it out in the Bill.
My Lords, very briefly, we had considerable debate while the Bill was going through the House on whether we should incorporate Article 18(2) and we obviously did not prevail while the Bill was going through this House. Although this does not go as far as incorporating Article 18(2), which I regret—I would clearly like to see the whole loaf, so to speak—at least this gives the possibility of Article 18(2) being incorporated through a review. Will the Minister say when he thinks the review will be laid, in the form of a report? I am assuming that, “within 30 months of commencement of the Bill”, means within 30 months from 25 May this year. I am making that assumption so that we can all count the days to when the report will come back for debate in Parliament.
My Lords, the work done by the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, in joining the dots, as it were, between the original proposal and having a proper approach to children using the internet and all the other things they use, and the way they would get redress if there is a problem, has been a joy to watch. She has stuck at it like a terrier, she has not let Ministers off the hook, she has been firing off emails and phone calls from faraway places and causing their lives to be an absolute misery, but it is a good thing because we have got to where we need to be As the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, said, it was always a surprise that the Government did not want to include Article 18(2) as well as Article 18(1), because it completes the support for consumers of internet services, which the Bill sets out to do but for which there is a derogation and they have chosen not to exercise it. I am very glad about that, but perhaps the Minister can explain one thing that I did not quite get right in my mind as I was listening to him. The review is to check whether Article 18(2) would make it a more effective consumer measure than it is currently under the Bill as drafted—the Act, as it will be. It is not restricted to vulnerable people. The way it was expressed seemed to suggest that it would cover only other vulnerable people. In any case, children are not vulnerable: they are extremely interested, very wise and often sagacious about the internet but they are not vulnerable to it. They may well get themselves into vulnerable situations, in which case they need redress, through bodies such as child-specific agencies, but I do not think that was the intention. I would be grateful if that could be addressed Secondly, a moment of levity flashed through my mind when the Minister was talking about the need for the Inland Revenue to track down where reservists had got to. I cannot believe that is the only way the Ministry of Defence keeps in touch with its reserve, but I do not dissent from this being a very good measure.
My Lords, I am very grateful for the contribution of all noble Lords on this, especially the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron. It is very nice to be in her good books The noble Lord, Lord Clement Jones, talked about the age-appropriate design code and when the Information Commissioner will get going. As he rightly said, the Bill has not come into force yet; nevertheless, we understand that the Information Commissioner is already setting the wheels in motion for a comprehensive age-appropriate design code and will launch a call for evidence imminently. During that process she will be seeking evidence and views on the content of the code in line with the points raised in the debate in this House and elsewhere. So I confirm what he suggested was the case; indeed, work is already being done The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned the focus of the code. In mentioning vulnerable people I was trying to bring him back to some of the points I think he made: I did not want anyone to get the impression that we were concentrating just on children—albeit they are very important—and their particular rights under the code. It will include vulnerable people, but also the way that it operates in general. Although children rightly have a special mention, we are also concerned with people who may have particular problems and may be vulnerable. I think this should exactly satisfy some of the things the noble Lord mentioned in previous debates As for the Ministry of Defence, it does try to keep in touch. In fact, it is a duty of an ex-regular reservist to keep the MoD in touch with their whereabouts. Some 49%, I believe, do not do so: we want to use this information to keep in touch with the reserve for the security of the country and that is why we are doing this. I also point out that there are protections: the commissioners of the Inland Revenue have to give permission before information is disclosed to anyone else or elsewhere.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 116 to 152.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 153.
My Lords, this group of amendments covers issues that will be familiar to many noble Lords, as it primarily addresses concerns and issues raised in this House last autumn. The Government have remained committed to listening and to improving the Bill. I owe thanks to many noble Lords who brought these issues to our attention Commons Amendment 155 would help businesses and other organisations ensure that their boardrooms and senior management levels are truly representative of the workforces they manage and the communities they serve. In November 2016, Sir John Parker published a report which showed that while 14% of the population identified as black, Asian or minority ethnic, only 1.5% of directors in FTSE 100 boardrooms are UK citizens from a minority background. More than half of the FTSE 100 boards are exclusively white. While significant progress has been made in recent years to improve the gender balance in the boardrooms of such companies, the severe underrepresentation of people from minority backgrounds needs to be addressed Sir John’s report included a series of recommendations to improve racial and ethnic diversity in the boardroom. He encouraged companies to make better use of executive search firms to identify potential candidates and invite them to be interviewed for managerial vacancies. This amendment would therefore add a new processing condition to Schedule 1 to allow organisations to process personal data about potential candidates’ racial or ethnic origin in identifying suitable candidates for potential managerial positions Previously when we discussed the Bill in this House, Thomson Reuters provided a very helpful briefing note setting out how it compiles reports on persons suspected of terrorism, bribery, money laundering, modern slavery and other illegal activities. It then shares this information with the banks to help them avoid engaging with such people and allow them to comply with their regulatory obligations and other internationally recognised guidelines. In response to support for the proposal on all sides, the Government committed to work with Thomson Reuters to bring forward amendments at a later stage of the Bill’s passage. Commons Amendment 158 is the culmination of this work I am also pleased to introduce Commons Amendment 160, which would provide for processing by patient support groups, a concern well put by my noble friend Lady Neville-Jones. She spoke movingly on behalf of the patient support group Unique, which manages a register of patients suffering from very rare and sometimes life-limiting chromosomal disorders. Amendment 160 would add a new processing condition to Schedule 1 to provide Unique and groups like it with the legal certainty required for their vital work to continue. I am most grateful to her for her advocacy Commons Amendments 162 and 163 relate to data processing for safeguarding purposes. These amendments respond to one tabled on the same issue by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, on Report in December. In response to that amendment, I made it clear that the Government were sympathetic to the points raised. These amendments would ensure that sensitive data could be processed without consent in certain circumstances for legitimate safeguarding activities which are in the substantial public interest. The unfortunate reality is that there still exists a great deal of uncertainty under current law about which personal data can be processed for safeguarding purposes. This has resulted, for example, in some organisations withholding information from the police and other law enforcement agencies for fear of breaching data protection law. With these amendments, the Government intend to address this uncertainty by providing relevant organisations with a specific processing condition for processing the most sensitive personal data for safeguarding purposes. Similarly, a number of other amendments in this group would extend necessary exemptions to certain regulators to ensure that data subjects cannot use data protection laws to undermine their regulatory work. Commons Amendment 178 would provide the Comptroller and Auditor-General of the United Kingdom, and his counterpart in each of the devolved nations, with an exemption from certain provisions of the GDPR where these would be likely to prejudice his statutory functions. Likewise, Amendment 179 would provide an exemption for the Bank of England from the listed GDPR provisions where these could inhibit its ability to exercise its functions. Amendment 183 would provide an exemption for the Scottish Information Commissioner, who regulates freedom of information rather than data protection. Amendment 185 would protect the work of the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. Amendment 186 would extend the exemptions in Schedule 2 to the Charity Commission’s functions under the Charities Acts of 1992, 2006 and 2011 The remaining amendments in this group would address more technical issues, ensuring consistency across the Bill. I beg to move.
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for the Government having carried these provisions in the Commons. More importantly, the patient support groups for which I spoke are very gratified because they regard these amendments as absolutely vital to their ability to carry on their important work. If I might say so, it is a very satisfactory outcome.
My Lords, I welcome Commons Amendment 188 on the confidentiality of legal advice. As the Minister knows, a concern has been raised, long after the 11th hour, about the position of arbitrators. The concern is that the Bill addresses the data protection obligations of judges and lawyers but does not address the data protection position of arbitrators. Arbitration is of course an important legal service, in which this country leads and provides services to the world. All I can do at this stage is to ask the Minister and the Bill team whether they will reflect on this concern, which has been raised not just with me but with him. If he thinks that there is any basis for concern, will he consider using the very extensive powers conferred under the Bill to bring forward regulations to address the issue?
My Lords, as the Minister made clear in his lucid introduction, this is a really significant group of amendments. It is very good to see that some of the work that was done in this House has come back in the form of amendments. In particular, the Minister will remember that it was my noble friend Lord McNally who raised issues around Thomson Reuters in the first place. However, I know that there will be considerable pleasure in the financial services industry, which is very concerned about such things as money laundering, anti-corruption measures and so on, and making sure that it can process data in pursuance of achieving those important goals. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, on her campaign, which has clearly borne fruit here. I had not heard what the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, had said but there seems to be a bit of a hole in the Bill if that is the case. I can certainly testify to the fact that arbitrators are an incredibly important part of our judicial system. Indeed, within it they are one of our global competitive advantages; therefore if anything is done that is to the detriment of our arbitration system, it would be really quite serious.
My Lords, I too congratulate the Government on bringing forward these amendments. They cover a wide range but, as the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, said, they are an important part of the actual mechanics and workings of the system once it is going. We will certainly need a few successes where people believe that something has been done to make sure that their lives are easier, rather than more difficult, as a result of this legislation. Even your Lordships’ House will suffer quite considerably in the processing tasks that it will have to carry. I seem to remember that, after an informal chat with the Minister, we were going to get a statement from him about how he felt about that and how things might progress. Maybe I am pushing him a little too far; perhaps we will get a letter or something about it later I echo the congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, who fought an understated but effective campaign on an important area, which I am glad to see was picked up. I thought the diversity amendments were the sort of thing that could easily have been dropped off for being too complicated and difficult. This is possibly not the right Bill but it is really important that we got them in here. There could have been use made of some provisions by employers and others who did not want to face up to the reality of the world today, saying that they would not be able to process data in a way that would allow us to see whether progress has been made on this We on the Labour Benches were also consulted by Thomson Reuters, which felt that there was a bit of a lacuna in some things it was asked to do about money laundering. I am glad that the Bill team finally came round on that and agreed that there was something there. It brought forward a measure I am particularly pleased about safeguarding, which was quite a late addition to Committee. We brought it back on Report. It was obviously something that needed much wider consideration. Again, I wondered whether there would be time to bring it through. It has been possible to do so. We now have a very satisfactory approach to this. It covers not just sports, which was the area we raised, but the wider consideration of vulnerable people in clubs and in health and welfare situations where there needs to be consideration of what process and steps could be taken if suspicions were raised. We do not have to read the papers today to realise how damaging that can be if it is not caught quickly. We welcome the amendments.
My Lords, I am grateful for all those comments. It is nice that in the last group I will handle on it—touch wood—I leave the Bill in a glow of good will. I am particularly pleased that I can agree with the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and that we have been able to respond to some of the concerns and points raised in this House. In many ways, the Bill has been an object lesson of discussion on a very technical Bill. We have made progress. I certainly acknowledge and am very grateful for the support and co-operation I have had from both opposition Front Benches.
As a little footnote, which might give encouragement to others, I first raised the Thomson Reuters matter because it sponsored a conference at the Guildhall well over a year ago about the coming of the GDPR. I went along to find out about it. I and the other Benches raised this from that. It has now ended up in the Bill. It is an encouragement to companies that sometimes think that legislation is a mysterious place that, by taking little bit of effort to put its case and extend it, they can have real influence.
I am grateful to the noble Lord. That brings me nicely to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, about arbitrators. The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Stevenson, mentioned the importance of arbitration to the economy of this country. I am only too well aware of it from my background in insurance. London has a very well-respected legal system, but the arbitration system is linked to that. We certainly would not wish in any way to hinder it. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord McNally, did, the people who brought this up seemed to do so at the last minute. I slightly wonder how they managed to miss this trick, if it is so obvious, for the two years that the GDPR has been in place, let alone—
Could I suggest to the noble Lord that they were too busy arbitrating?
They should have hired a lawyer. The point is that it is a perfectly valid point. We have sought to replicate in the Bill, as far as possible, the existing provisions relating to legal professional privilege. We had several discussions about that in the 1998 Act, including the relevant exemptions to rights and obligations for personal data. I cannot help but notice that the Arbitration and Mediation Service, given that we are trying to replicate as far as possible existing provisions, appears to have been operating without undue burden for the last 20 years, but I am certainly prepared to undertake to the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, that we will look at that with a view to making sure that this is not a serious problem. We certainly have not been able to do it in time. I can confirm to him that, if there is a problem, the Bill contains regulation-making powers to address this concern. The only thing I can say on that is that, quite rightly, those regulations would have to come before both Houses of Parliament. If there is a concern he will be able to address it later The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, is quite correct that we talked about me making a statement or addressing concerns about the individual application of the GDPR and the Bill to Peers. I assumed I would do so if it was necessary and if the subject came up, which, luckily, it has not. Just to be clear, it is not just that Peers and other citizens of this country are suffering under the GDPR, although they might have obligations that they were not aware of before and, I agree, certain extra ones because the GDPR has direct effect; it also greatly increases individual subject rights. It makes sure that individuals’ personal data, in particular sensitive personal data, is better protected in law and by a regulator, who, thanks to your Lordships’ agreement, has real power to make sure that the data regime is obeyed. I believe that the House authorities have issued a statement to all Peers. Of course, my department is there to address this. The first avenue that Peers should use for the individual circumstances is the House authorities.
Can I press my noble friend a little further on the issue of what individual Peers and Members of Parliament should do? There was an earlier discussion on whether some arrangements might be made so that data protection rules can be followed but the burden would not be unreasonable. I also take this opportunity to thank my noble friend for these many amendments which are grouped together, on diversity through to financial services. It has been a model of good working.
I am grateful for that. When my noble friend spoke of pushing me further, I am not completely clear what she wants me to do. It is not right for me to opine on individual cases. I think we are talking about Peers in their roles as Peers. Each individual Peer has to discuss that in the light of their individual circumstances. All I would say is that if noble Lords are dealing with special categories of data and personal data, they will have to be aware of the obligations put on them by the Bill and the GDPR. The House authorities are there to advise, as is the Information Commissioner. They will have to do so. In my case, for example, I do not anticipate that in what I do as a Peer, as opposed to a Minister, I would have to pay a fee as a controller, if that helps.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 154 to 173.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 174.
My Lords, these amendments relate to the immigration exemption in paragraph 4 of Schedule 2, which was debated at some length during the passage of the Bill through this House. It may assist the House if I briefly restate the case for this provision The Bill and the GDPR extend and strengthen the rights of individuals, giving them easier access to their data and greater control over its use and processing. This is something we can all welcome. However, it is necessary to balance such enhanced rights of data subjects with other competing interests. The Bill therefore provides mechanisms to ensure that data rights cannot undermine investigations by law enforcement agencies, regulators and others. For the same reasons, the Bill makes provision to protect the integrity of the immigration system; for example, to prevent the release of information which would undermine imminent enforcement action As I have previously explained, the immigration provision is limited in nature. It does not allow the Home Office—or, indeed, any other controller—to set aside all the safeguards in the Bill; rather, it allows a number of specific rights to be restricted on a case-by-case basis and only to the extent to which giving effect to those rights would be likely to prejudice the maintenance of effective immigration control in an individual case. Decisions will also be subject to oversight by the Information Commissioner and, ultimately, the Information Tribunal On Report noble Lords supported the retention of the exemption by a majority of 130. Last week the House of Commons similarly supported the inclusion of the exemption in the Bill by a clear majority of 28. None the less, it is of course right that the exemption should be as tightly drafted as possible. The Government firmly believe that unless there is a compelling reason to the contrary, data processing should always be fair and transparent and it should not be possible to collect data for one purpose and then to retrospectively apply a policy of processing for further, incompatible purposes. It was always the Government’s intention that processing for immigration purposes should have to meet both these principles. But, on reflection, we agree that the provisions in paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 left room for doubt as to the intended approach. Therefore, Commons Amendments 174 and 175 further narrow the exemption to put the matter beyond doubt We are also committed to reviewing the operation of the exemption in the light of experience 12 months after these provisions come into force. To inform the review we would naturally welcome the views of interested parties, such as the Immigration Law Practitioners’ Association. Clause 16 would enable us to narrow the scope of the exemption still further should the review conclude that it would be appropriate to do so I look forward to hearing what the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has to say about her Amendment 175A, but for now I beg to move Amendment 175A (as an amendment to Amendment 175)
My Lords, I do not think I am going to surprise the Minister but I will go through my points on Amendment 175A. The short version is that among the double negatives, paragraph 4 enables the Home Office and others to refuse a subject’s access request in respect of data relating to “effective immigration control”. I will not muse on what “effective” might mean in this context this evening. There are exceptions to the exemption, as the Minister has said, but they do not go to the heart of the problem, which is that if the Home Office uses the exemption, someone challenging a Home Office decision will not be able to check that the Home Office has the correct information about him. For instance, an application may be refused and the correct information established only if the matter goes to appeal I discovered during the passage of the Bill that at the start of a case solicitors routinely put in a request to the Home Office to ensure that there is not a crucial error in the information it holds about their client. That must save time and effort—and, indeed, money and anxiety—on both sides. It seems a matter of common sense to be able to do so. I have been puzzled throughout as to why the Government consider this exemption necessary. If it is because there may be an issue of criminality, paragraph 3 provides for this, including “the prevention … of crime”, if the Home Office believes that someone might be about to commit an immigration offence. I understand from a discussion with the Minister last week, for which I am grateful to her and her officials, that the Government do not want to characterise all applicants to the Home Office for immigration leave as criminals, but I really do not think that that is an answer. As the Minister knows, and the House will know, I would like to see this paragraph out of the Bill altogether or, at a poor second best, not brought into effect until work has been done with practitioners—lawyers and the relevant NGOS—as to its operation, but we all know about the procedural rules and those mean that I have to confine myself to the amendment made by the Government in the Commons.
I thank the noble Baroness for setting out the rationale for Amendment 175A. I wholeheartedly endorse the sentiment behind it— namely, that the data protection principles must underpin the processing of personal data held by the Home Office for immigration purposes. I also unreservedly support the notion that the Home Office needs to abide by the highest standards required by the GDPR and the Bill and to ensure that its staff are properly equipped, including through the appropriate training and guidance, to ensure that the department collectively fulfils its statutory responsibilities when it comes to processing people’s personal data. We want our staff to recognise that new data rights should be seen as an opportunity to improve how we collect, process and use other people’s data and respond to customers’ requests I am grateful to the noble Baroness for giving me foresight of her specific questions. The first concerned the exemption not being used in a blanket way to deny all requests for files concerning immigration held by the Home Office. This will be the case regardless of the believed immigration status of the client. We have been clear, and guidance will be clear, that the exemption can be used only on an individual basis and on a right-by-right basis—that is, a controller can exclude only those rights that would cause the prejudice test to be satisfied. Further, we will only withhold the information that could be likely to cause the prejudice. All other data is currently—and will carry on being—released The noble Baroness’s second question concerned the exemption not being routinely applied or applied without meaningful individual assessment in circumstances where the Home Office seeks to acquire data collected by essential public services from other government departments, such as the Department for Education. Where a right is to be restricted, there has to be evidence which a data controller can identify that has satisfied the likely-to-prejudice effective immigration control test and the test that it is still a live concern. That is irrespective of where or from whom the data was gathered The noble Baroness’s third question concerned the exemption not being routinely applied or applied without meaningful individual assessment in circumstances where a person or their legal representative is requesting data held by the Home Office so that they can regularise their immigration status or progress an immigration claim. We have been clear—and out guidance will be clear—that a right can be restricted only where there is a risk to the maintenance of effective immigration control. If a person is seeking to regularise their status, it is incumbent upon us to facilitate their efforts, and we strive to do so. The noble Baroness’s next question was about the exemption being applied solely by the Home Office and not by government contractors carrying out immigration control functions. The exemption may be used and applied by those who work with us. However, the same checks and balances would be applicable in all instances The noble Baroness also asked for the exemption to be used only in cases where the Government have a clear and specific reason to believe that the release of data would undermine immigration control in relation to that specific person. That is correct—and it is what paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 provides for The next question the noble Baroness asked was about undermining immigration control not including an individual accessing data that may show why they may have reason to be allowed to stay in the UK. We have been clear that, where a person is seeking to regularise their status or appeal a decision, we will disclose all the data we hold to assist them in that and always give the full basis of why a decision has been made to facilitate any appeal The noble Baroness rightly asked, for the above reasons, whether it would be used only in a very small number of cases. The answer is yes. We anticipate that it will be a minority of cases and it is a rebuttable assumption that all rights apply to all data subjects The noble Baroness’s final question was about the exemption not being applied to British citizens or migrants who are lawfully resident in the UK. The exemption is not designed to apply to those here lawfully. It could, however, be used if a lawful UK resident was involved in an attempt to cause prejudice to the maintenance of effective immigration control—for example, by sponsoring someone in the knowledge that they did not qualify to be here I hope that I have answered in full the noble Baroness’s questions. I thank here again for providing me with sight of her questions.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 175.
That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 176 to 282.
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the response by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education to an Urgent Question in the other place on the Government’s response to the Schools that Work for Everyone consultation. The Statement is as follows: “By 2020, core school funding will rise to £43.5 billion a year, the highest ever figure and 50% higher per pupil in real terms than in 2000. Last Friday, I announced important measures that create more good school places. This includes our response to the Schools that Work for Everyone consultation As previously announced to the House, we will not be enabling the creation of new selective schools. However, selective schools are an important part of a diverse education system and it is right that they can expand where there is need, as others can. The Autumn Statement 2016 announced funding for the expansion of existing selective schools, and on Friday I launched the selective schools expansion fund for existing selective schools that commit to improving access for disadvantaged pupils and working in enhanced partnership with local non-selective schools. Fifty million pounds is available in 2018-19 We are retaining the 50% cap on faith-based admissions in free schools. I do recognise the positive role that faith providers play, and also recognise that some feel unable to establish new schools through the free schools programme. We are developing a capital scheme to support the establishment of new voluntary-aided schools. We will continue to work with universities and with independent schools to encourage them to work in lasting partnerships with the state sector. Our joint understanding with the Independent Schools Council sets out how independent schools will support this. Overall, this package of reforms will help to ensure that we are delivering a diverse education system providing choice and opportunity for all”.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Secretary of State’s Statement. Perhaps I may ask him, first, whether he can say when a breakdown of those who responded to the consultation will be published. Despite the fact that the Secretary of State has in the past stated that grammar schools were “not the answer” to social mobility and were “divisive”—both of which statements are beyond contradiction—we now have a situation where he and his department are standing logic on its head, for reasons that he himself was unable to explain in another place earlier today With regard to funding to allow grammar schools to expand, as the Minister has just mentioned, can he say whether they will be permitted to open so-called annexes across county borders, as has been suggested with regard to a school in Buckinghamshire opening an annexe in the Prime Minister’s constituency in Berkshire We welcome the fact that the Government have accepted our arguments for retaining the 50% cap in faith schools admissions, but perhaps the Minister can elaborate on the point made in the Secretary of State’s Written Statement published on Friday, which stated: “we are also developing a capital scheme to support the establishment of new voluntary-aided schools for faith and other providers”.—[Official Report, Commons, 11/5/18; col. 25WS.] What effect do the Government expect that development to have on the number of faith schools and/or the number of pupils admitted on the basis of their faith I reiterate a point that I made when the consultation document was published. Its title is not just a misnomer; it could even be said to be a deception because it is categorically not concerned with schools that work for everyone. The document itself has 36 pages but the number of times that those pages mention special educational needs and disability is zero. The Government’s belated response to the consultation has 16 pages but the number of times that those pages mention special educational needs and disability is, again, zero. So this is not about schools that work for everyone: it is about schools that work for everyone without special educational needs or disability So the Government’s commitment to selective education apparently extends to selecting the kind of children who are eligible for selective education. That is just not acceptable, and I invite the Minister to explain why children with SEND have been written out of the Government’s plans that were announced last week. If he is unable to do so now, I ask that he write to me, because that is an omission for which thousands of children and their parents deserve an answer.
My Lords, the noble Lord has asked a number of questions. I hope I have been able to write them all down. I will have to write to him to give him a breakdown of the response to the original consultation On the annexes of existing grammar schools, we are very clear that for any grammar school applying for this fund it has to be a bona fide extension of an existing school. I cannot give the noble Lord exact distances but the spirit of the intention is very much that they are here for existing good grammar schools The capital scheme that we are talking about is a £50 million sum in the current year. I think it is important to put it into perspective: we envisage that it might create about 4,000 places. We have so far created 825,000 places since 2010 so it is a small amount in the overall context. However, it recognises that it is much more efficient for us to create good places in existing good schools. That is the logic that underpins it In relation to SEN, I do not have the detailed information here but I can say we have just announced 14 free schools specialising in special educational needs, including autism and mental health. I think we have opened something like 70 free schools over the last five years that, again, focus on special educational needs.
My Lords, in terms of the Statement there are two important issues. The first is on the issue of selection. As a party we are totally opposed to the expansion of grammar schools, and I guess quite a large number of the members of the Government are too. The Minister knows perfectly well that had this been done in a different way, as was originally planned, he would not have been successful in getting it through the Commons, so this is a back-door way of trying to achieve that Why are we opposed to grammar schools? Every single study—whether by the Sutton Trust, Durham University, Education Datalab, the Education Policy Institute or the Institute for Fiscal Studies—says that it fails to find any evidence that grammar schools increase social mobility. In fact, it seems that children in a selective area who do not pass the 11-plus do worse than they would have done in a comprehensive area. We also know the effect the grammar schools often have on a community: they often take the best teachers, who want to teach in the grammar school, and of course they cream off pupils as well The Minister talked about developing a capital programme for grammar schools. Let us remind ourselves that only 5% of pupils go to grammar schools, and these plans will do nothing for the 95% of children who go to a local secondary school. In fact most grammar schools are in better-off areas; pupils in the north-east, most of East Anglia, the south coast and the west coast will not benefit from one penny of this money. We should also remember that when the Government increased the schools budget after the election, they did so by taking money away from local schools’ capital budget. They took money away from the capital programme of those schools, including PE facilities and other central projects. So what we are seeing here is money being taken and used for a small group of people, not even a geographical spread across the country If every single place at these expanding grammar schools went to children who were on the pupil premium, we would be talking about a very small number. However, if these grammar schools do not take children from disadvantaged backgrounds, what will the Government do about it?
The noble Lord, Lord Storey, raises some important points. On the benefits of grammar schools, we know that pupils attending selective schools make better progress. On average, they achieve around half a grade better in eight GCSEs across core subjects compared to pupils with similar prior attainment in other schools. When disadvantaged children attend selective schools, the attainment gap is significantly reduced. So it is worth remembering that I want to tackle the issue of the low proportion of disadvantaged, free-school-meals children attending grammar schools at the moment. Launched in conjunction with the announcement on Friday were two important initiatives. First, to be eligible to apply for what we are calling the selective schools expansion fund, the grammar must submit a fair access and partnership plan. It has to set out very carefully what it is going to do about increasing the vulnerable group that the noble Lord refers to. Secondly, we also announced a memorandum of understanding with the Grammar School Heads Association, which represents 90% of all grammar schools, for it to take steps to widen access to all the other grammar schools. So they know where the wind is blowing on this. We are very focused on it.
And if that does not happen?
My Lords—
My Lords—
My Lords—
I was just going to finish my answer to the noble Lord, Lord Storey, on his question about capital. To put the £50 million sum in perspective, we are spending over £1 billion a year on basic-need increases across the country. I am not saying it is a trivial sum but I do not want people to think that we are literally raiding the pot for ordinary schools. Against that also, the capital allocation for schools in this spending round is £23.5 billion.
My Lords, that was a pretty poor Statement and a poor response to the original consultation paper. In the original paper, the Minister talked about selective schools having to help with non-selective education if they were to justify their position. In that consultation paper, he outlined the possibility of a number of sanctions that would take place if grammar schools did not do their bit to help non-selective schools in the area. In the Statement that he has just made, there is no mention of sanctions. If selective schools that are expanding do not play their part in raising standards across their area, will he impose sanctions, as was his intention in the original consultation paper?
My Lords, there is no intention to impose sanctions at this stage, but the very fact that we have made a short-term announcement on the allocation of capital is sending a message to the grammar school sector that if it does not play by the unwritten rules of increasing its access, it will not be able to carry on with any future expansion. I think this follows the approach that we have taken with universities, with the very big programme of universities spending nearly £200 million a year on widening access, and similar principles apply in this situation.
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what priority they will give to investing in nursing globally, in the light of the impact of such investment on improving health, promoting gender equality and strengthening local economies.
My Lords, it is a great pleasure to open this debate. I thank noble Lords who are taking part in it and hope that it has not disrupted too many dinner plans. I am going to address three matters in turn. First, I am going to talk about the background to the debate. Secondly, I am going to talk about why strengthening nursing globally is one of the most important things that we can do to improve health globally, and why it should be given a higher priority and greater investment. Thirdly, I shall conclude with some questions for the Government The background to this is that I co-chair the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global Health, which undertook a review of nursing globally, with a review panel that I am delighted to say included the noble Baronesses, Lady Watkins and Lady Cox, and the noble Lords, Lord Ribeiro and Lord Willis, as well as Dan Poulter and Maria Caulfield, a doctor and nurse from the other place. Interestingly, nobody has done such a global review before. My focus is global, but what we are saying is also relevant to the UK, and I know that other noble Lords will mention nursing in the UK. I also say at the start that while our focus is nursing, a lot of it is also relevant to midwifery—and, of course, nurses work in teams As a review, we concluded three things. First, we will simply not achieve universal health coverage without strengthening nursing and the role played by the 20 million nurses and midwives globally—half the health workforce globally Secondly, nurses are too often undervalued and underutilised, unable to operate at the top of their licence. In other words, nurses are trained to a certain level, but then not in practice allowed or enabled to work to the level of their training. This is different in different countries but, interviewing nurses around the world, we found the same story everywhere. This is a huge waste of talent and resources Thirdly, the triple impact of strengthening nursing globally is that it will have an impact on three different sustainable development goals: improving health, promoting gender equity—nursing is clearly a route to women’s empowerment in Africa— and promoting a stronger economy These are important conclusions, but let me get to the heart of what I want to say and why I believe that now is the right moment to strengthen and develop nursing; why this is one of the most important things we can do to improve health globally; and why nurses will become even more important and influential in future. There are several reasons for this, but I want to talk about just three major ones The first is that diseases are changing. There is a global increase in non-communicable diseases—diabetes, heart disease, cancer and the like—and in co-morbidities in older people. As we all know, these diseases require holistic, patient-centred care, and this is at the very heart of nursing philosophy. Nurses address the whole person. They take not just a biomedical view but consider psychological, social and environmental aspects. We need a fundamental change of approach in how health services are delivered globally—new models of care—and nurses will be at the heart of that. Here in the UK, we already have nurse-led and nurse-based services—for example, in diabetes and other long-term conditions. Those are increasing here in the UK, and there are now many similar services globally. We can see the impact of allowing nurses in South Africa to initiate treatment on anti-retrovirals, which has helped to turn around the epidemic of HIV, nurse prescribing in Botswana, the development of community services in Singapore and the strengthening of nursing in Uganda. These are all countries which understand the change which is happening. It is about improving access and quality and more cost-effective delivery of care. Nurses are very capable in all those areas The second big argument is that nurses are the health professionals closest to the community and, in many rural areas and slums are the first and often the only people who patients see. They are best able to help community health workers, the people in the most remote areas, to make them more effective and of higher quality Thirdly, this closeness to and being part of the local community also makes nurses the most effective health workers at promoting health, preventing disease, improving health literacy, early detection and tackling the social determinants of health I believe that those three aspects—holistic, person-centred care, reaching the most remote groups and promoting health and preventing diseases—are central to health policy in every country of the world. As I said, nurses are particularly fitted to handling it. It is for this reason that I believe that they will become even more important and influential in future I must say that our all-party review group thought that this was a no-brainer, but we were unable to persuade the UK Government or international bodies to act, so we started our own global campaign—Nursing Now. Here I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Watkins, who has been with me on every step of this way, as well as offering invaluable advice as a nurse I do not have time to say anything about the campaign. We have a website, which I encourage people to visit. It is run in collaboration with the World Health Organization and the International Council of Nurses and supported, among others, by the Burdett Trust for Nursing, the Royal College of Nursing and THET. The Duchess of Cambridge, our patron, launched the campaign a little over two months ago, and there are now national groups in more than 40 countries, without us providing any financial support. It is clear that we have caught a tide. Our aim is to accelerate the changes that I think are under way around the world I turn to the Government and the question of improving the priority for developing nursing globally. I very much welcome the £5 million ring-fenced for the developing nursing within the health systems strengthening in partnership fund announced at the launch of our campaign. Here in the UK, I welcome the golden hellos to be offered to postgraduates starting in nursing in mental health, learning difficulties and district nursing. I hope that the Minister will be able to tell us about other things that the Government are doing to strengthen nursing. However, none of these initiatives is truly strategic or embraces the need for a radical change in how we see nursing and its potential to make a major difference in the world. These are incidental, isolated issues, and they need to be brought together into a much larger programme. I am sure that we all understand and accept the importance of nursing, but do we understand how much bigger impact it could have if it was enabled to do so? That is the crux of the matter I have many questions, but let me ask only a small selection. Four of them are about health. First, what are the Government doing to promote nurse-led services in countries where the Government are working with partners? Secondly, what are they doing to enable nurses to play a leading role in supporting community health workers, the people who reach into the furthest part of the African and other continents? What are they doing to support nurses to provide training, supervision and a point of referral so that the community health workers can operate to the highest level of quality, be more effective and therefore deliver universal health coverage in those countries Thirdly, what are the Government doing to strengthen nurses’ role in promotion, prevention, health literacy, early detection and tackling the social determinants of health? These are roles where nurses, who are close to and part of the community, could play an even greater role in future. Finally, what are the Government doing to ensure that nursing is at the forefront of the global strategies to promote universal health coverage and tackle non-communicable diseases? It is interesting to note that in those strategies, there is currently virtually no mention of the workforce, let alone nursing. The UK Government could play an important role in bringing the health workforce, and nursing in particular, up the agenda to tackle these important issues I have not talked about the gender aspects of nursing, but I hope that other noble Lords will. My question here is: what are the Government doing to engage and develop nursing as part of their strategy and action to promote gender equity? Surprisingly, nursing figures very little in all the strategies around the world for the development of women and gender. Similarly, I have not talked about the economic aspects. What are the Government doing to engage and develop nursing as part of their strategy and action to promote economic growth Strengthening nursing in the way I have described is a big and bold strategic idea. Is the Minister willing to arrange a top-level meeting for senior nurses to meet Ministers and officials from his department—or wider within government—to discuss the strategic impact of strengthening nursing globally and what the UK can do to take a lead on it In conclusion, I am convinced that strengthening nursing is one of the most important things we can do to improve health globally. Nursing is a profession whose time has come, and I very much hope that the Government will embrace these ideas wholeheartedly and increase their priority for investing in nursing.
My Lords, I feel privileged to follow the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, in his excellent address. Those who have followed him over many years will have noticed his real concern for development. I was always struck by his fascinating book, Turning the World Upside Down, in which he argued that we need to move beyond top-down thinking on international development towards co-development. While richer countries have a responsibility to share knowledge and investment, we must recognise that healthcare innovation from developing countries can be every bit as important for improving outcomes in the developed world With his excellent team—it is striking that so many of his distinguished colleagues from the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global Health are here tonight—he has spelled out so clearly the potential impact of nursing worldwide. Of course, in the UK we have had a growing revolution. During my ministerial days, my excellent noble friend Lady Cumberlege was the one who pushed for nurse prescribing. The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, mentioned nurse prescribing elsewhere in the world. But we have been pioneers in many ways; the noble Baroness, Lady Emerton, was a formidable force in those early years. We can now see how the UK developments are spreading around the world I congratulate the noble Lord on his impeccable timing. This debate was delayed. Saturday was International Nurses Day and Florence Nightingale’s 198th birthday. Today marks 137 years since the death of another remarkable woman, Mary Seacole. So he has got his timing right. In Belfast today the Royal College of Nursing is meeting and discussing health in a way that is quite remarkable, from the specifics, whereby those very advanced practitioners can make a contribution, right through to the contribution of nursing in dealing with slavery and sexual trafficking. Now that nurses have come of age, they believe in their confidence and, supported by others, have a voice that must be heard. Having a chief nursing officer reappointed at the World Health Organization, this is a time to speak up and make sure that global impact is really heard Education and training are critically important. I have the privilege of being the chancellor of the University of Hull. Professor Julie Jomeen, head of the Faculty of Health Sciences, said: “We are supporting nurses to become global professionals” This is what is changing. Education, training and research are quite remarkable. Through nurse leadership and nurse contribution, we send people on placements to Uganda, Barbados, Finland, Africa, the Caribbean and the Middle East and so forth, and we receive nurses in return from all around the world. This is expanding global outlooks. If you train and learn together, it influences your perspective and view of your professional commitment more than anything else. I am pleased also, incidentally, that the faculty has won a Burdett Coutts award for the STaR project, which tries to ensure that these newly recruited nurses stay in the health service or wherever they are and are prepared for the practice and not just the theory We all know that the healthcare challenges of the 21st century are very much the healthcare challenges where nurses excel. In my small contribution, I introduced the Health of the Nation, which was all about prevention and persuasion in dealing with coronary heart disease, stroke, cancers, mental illness, HIV/AIDS, sexual health and accidents. This is not about an operation or a prescription; it is about being close to the patient and the community, staying with them and using persuasion. The modern nurse has not only those skills but, increasingly, the skills of economics, politics and geography, and of beginning to see, in an empowered and enlightened way, the powerful contribution that a nurse can make in so many countries of the world Nurse leadership is critical, and we have to ensure that we develop it so that it can make a contribution within the system. It has always been a complex issue in the National Health Service management team. I am sure we can do more to develop the role and its contribution, rather than saying, “Oh, if only we had more nurse managers” More than three-quarters of the NHS is female, and the proportion of female nurses is even higher. Women have this huge contribution, not only in the UK but around the world. With our almost uniquely connected position in the international system, we can take real pride. Our international connections, particularly through the Commonwealth, link us to countries where taking the lead on co-dependents can be especially productive. In March, the constitution of the Commonwealth Nurses and Midwives Federation was approved in London. It reaffirms the commitment to maintain, facilitate and develop nursing and midwifery networks across the whole Commonwealth; to help to improve nursing standards across the Commonwealth; to support Commonwealth nurses and midwives; and to develop leadership roles in health policy. Last month, with the CHOGM meeting here in London, we had a further opportunity to make sure that this is fulfilled and delivered We know that nurses are more trusted than any other group. It is depressing that, apparently, only 15% of people trust politicians, but 93% of people trust nurses. This gives nurses an authority and position to influence, persuade and lead that few others groups have Fifty years ago, the United Nations Secretary-General, Dag Hammarskjöld, said: “Constant attention by a good nurse may be just as important as a major operation by a surgeon” That sounds rather patronising today, when the world has moved on so dramatically. I wanted to take this opportunity to celebrate the individual who will be the next Lord spiritual in our House. On Saturday, Dame Sarah Mullally was installed as the Bishop of London—someone who was Chief Nursing Officer when she was 37 and went to a comprehensive school. She referred to Florence Nightingale’s birthday, saying that Florence was, “an epidemiologist, a statistician, a social reformer, theologian and nurse. She has inspired generations of nurses. At the heart of what she did was to use the ordinary skills we all possess and can use if we are brave enough, the skill to build human relationships. If we want to improve public health today, if we want to improve the life chances of those who are still left behind and failed by our education system, if we want to reduce the horrifyingly high number of young deaths from knife and gun crime occurring in this wonderful city, we have to build relationships” If we take those words and apply them to all the ills, suffering and health problems in so many countries around the world, I absolutely believe that the critical force in ensuring that we deliver those sustainable development goals and promote healthcare for all is the huge, and as yet untapped, power of the nurse. I very much support the noble Lord in his Question.
My Lords, as always it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley. In particular, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, on securing this debate and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, for her enormous contribution that she has made to the Nursing Now initiative launched just a few weeks ago by the Duchess of Cambridge I must confess that, little did I know, when the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, sent me an email to join his review board, that we would produce a report, the Triple Impact report in 2016, which would have such an impact. Propelling UK nursing to the fore of the challenge to achieve universal health coverage globally within a realistic timescale seemed an impossible task—but he is well on the way to achieving the impossible As the report emphasised, nurses are the largest single component of a global health workforce, and their skills and values make them ideally placed to lead healthcare initiatives in a variety of settings. For me, the crucial challenge of the report is to make the nurse a catalyst for change, using healthcare to build stronger local economies and improve the lives of women What part can or will the UK play in accepting and delivering the challenges of the Triple Impact report? I have no doubt that many UK nurses and midwives have knowledge, skills and leadership qualities to take up the challenge, despite all too often being thwarted by the pressures of daily activity and outdated clinical hierarchies. However, a cadre of newly qualified nurses is emerging, particularly those who will be trained to the new NMC standards following the inspirational work of Dame Jill Clark—and, I might say, Jackie Smith, who has just announced today that she will be leaving as chief executive of the Nursing and Midwifery Council. She is a remarkable woman who has done so much to change the face of regulation as it interfaces with nursing These new nurses will be particularly well suited to the global challenge, as the emphasis on leadership, independent working and problem solving becomes more prevalent. There is also a sharper focus in the work of the HEIs, as the challenge of a graduate nursing profession has become embedded in both practical and theoretical pedagogies. This point was brought home by the publication of the latest QS league tables for the world’s best nursing schools, where Manchester, King’s and Southampton are in the top 10 The desire to search for excellence has resulted in Nottingham University Hospital Trust and Oxford University Hospital Trust being on the cusp of gaining Magnet status for nursing excellence—a prospect which I was told was totally unrealistic and impossible just a few years ago. Equally, the emergence of Health Education England’s draft workforce strategy with a full section on “the global healthcare workforce”, demonstrates tentative but welcome steps away from viewing non-UK staff as a commodity to fill vacancies and more as an opportunity to enhance care by investing in a global healthcare team. The “earn, learn and return” initiative is welcome; the global nursing partnership with Jamaica and the recent agreement with India will result in far stronger reciprocal arrangements that can be repeated around the globe However, the emphasis of the Government remains far too restrictive and the words in the strategy of recruiting staff, “in a way that is consistent with wider Government policy on reducing net migration”, is a chilling factor, particularly on the 41,962—that is the figure today—non-EEA nurses and midwives who are currently NMC registered and who hail from 73 different countries, from India and the Philippines, with the largest numbers, to Nigeria and Zimbabwe, to Belarus and Myanmar. There is somebody on the NMC register from every country in the world. Imagine what results we would get if we invested in these colleagues as part of our global campaign Unless we make global nursing an academic priority in our universities, we will not take advantage of our nursing heritage. It is our traditions, our excellence of teaching, and our innovative and outstanding care settings that give the UK a platform for leading the global nursing challenge—but research must be a priority and not an add-on. In 2010, the Lancet commission on education of health professionals, of which the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, was a member, recognised the need for a, “robust, competent and professionally capable workforce” Professionalism and leadership were regarded as essential qualities—the very reason they are so prominent in the new nursing standards. However, nurses must be allowed to apply these qualities in challenging settings, and there is nothing more challenging that doing so alongside colleagues in developing countries or in remote areas where the nurse, more than any other healthcare professional, is the one whom people will see To build an infrastructure that can sustain such programmes requires resources from the Department of Health and from DfID, but also from BEIS, to allow postgraduate nurses and other health professionals to research the effectiveness of global nursing in a developing world. It is not good enough to do that research purely through a clinical lens. If they are to act globally, nurses must think and research globally. In the US, a host of leading universities not only have centres for global health but encourage nursing graduates to carry out research in the field alongside other disciplines. Johns Hopkins, through its Center for Global Initiatives, promotes nurses on international placements, links them to schools of nursing around the world and encourages interdisciplinary research promoting broader health and welfare. The University of Washington, at its Center for Global Health Nursing, disseminates and promotes global health nursing, creates strategic partnerships internationally, and promotes nursing students’ involvement in global health policy. With its collaborative global research programmes, New York University—which I know well—has established nursing centres in Rwanda, Liberia, Ghana, Tanzania and China, as well as offering its degree courses in Abu Dhabi, Shanghai and Vietnam The vision for global healthcare and the future of nursing looks beyond these shores and the narrow confines of where nursing has been in the past, and sees our nurses, who are the best in the world, going out and spreading their gospel around the world.
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Crisp for all that he does to promote good health globally. There are very many nurses helping to promote global good health, but there is so much to do in this fragile world. The UK does give generously and many people in Parliament, and Ministers, have given their help in supporting global health It must not be forgotten that there was a terrible outbreak of Ebola in Sierra Leone. I pay tribute to the nurses who volunteered to look after these very infectious patients. It is important that lessons are learned from such epidemics, which can break out anywhere in the world at any time. With so many infections becoming resistant to antimicrobials, developing vaccines for such diseases as drug-resistant tuberculosis and diarrhoea is vital. Nurses across the globe are often the people at the front line. They need education, training and support. In many countries, stigma associated with infectious diseases is a problem and needs addressing. Nurses, who are so often the leaders, are the people who can do this, but they need support. The All-Party Parliamentary Group on HIV and AIDS is an active group which is helping with the campaign STOPAIDS. The group works with many countries globally that look towards the UK for support. It is important that NGOs, Governments, the pharmaceutical industry and local people work together so that prevention of ill health is high on the agenda A record number of nurses and midwives from the EU’s 27 countries left Britain last year. Between 2017 and 2018, a total of 3,962 such staff left the Nursing and Midwifery Council register, but only 805 joined it. The Home Office is not issuing or renewing visas for key health workers who are willing to work here. This is putting the UK in an impossible situation. Nurses who have to nurse sick patients with inadequate staffing have to bear the brunt of worried relatives and stressed patients. The RCN is supporting and actively participating in a number of nursing alliances in Europe and the Commonwealth. These not only seek to influence European and global policy but also spread advanced practice in the key role of nurses in tackling antimicrobial resistance and addressing the health of the health workforce I would like to bring to your Lordships’ attention the problems which nurses have been having in our prisons, especially Holme House, a Spice-riddled prison where there have been 376 medical emergencies in a year, caused by inmates smoking spliffs. Nurses have been ordered to stop tending sick patients because of the risk of breathing in mind-altering smoke in a fug-ridden wing which has become so contaminated. There is a shortage of nurses working in prisons and a problem with recruiting and retaining them. Nurses are an important part of the present workforce, as prisoners can have so many conditions, such as diabetes, hepatitis C and mental health problems, to mention only a few I would like to say how important specialist nurses are to people who have long-term conditions. They can become a lifeline, as so many general nurses do not understand the varied consequences if patients are not treated in the correct way according to their specialty. As president of the Spinal Injuries Association I am very grateful to some generous people who fundraise for our association. Without this help, we would not have been able to employ two specialist spinal nurses. As there is a shortage of spinal beds in the special units, these nurses go to general hospitals to advise on what is needed. They help with continuing healthcare. They also maintain links with a wide network of relevant stakeholders, including NHS Improvement and the Royal College of Nursing, which are currently in discussions with the SIA regarding bowel management and whether this can be returned to the nursing curriculum at some point Parkinson’s UK has 350 specialist nurses across the UK, but there are still 14 areas covering Scotland, Northern Ireland and England where people do not have access to a dedicated Parkinson’s nurse. All specialist nurses for diabetes, cancer and all sorts of conditions are invaluable At this time of crisis in the health service we should be grateful for volunteers, who do so much to help. It is of grave concern that the demand is greater than what is available for the care of all patients.
My Lords, I also warmly congratulate my noble friend Lord Crisp, not only on securing this debate and his comprehensive introduction but on his phenomenal commitment to the Nursing Now campaign and the Triple Impact report, in which he was so ably assisted by my noble friend Lady Watkins of Tavistock I declare an interest as an honorary vice-president of the Royal College of Nursing—the RCN. I also had the privilege of being involved in work for the Triple Impact report. It is many years since I was registered to practise in the UK, but I maintain a passionate commitment to nursing, especially through my involvement in a small NGO, the Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust, or HART. It was established to provide aid and advocacy for people suffering oppression, often in conflict or post-conflict regions not reached by major aid organisations, for security or political reasons. We work with local partners and always give them the dignity of choice, asking them to identify their priorities for aid, which is often the provision of healthcare—in very challenging situations Time permits me to give just two examples to illustrate the achievements of nursing in such challenging situations. First, in northern Uganda, while the notorious rebel Lord’s Resistance Army was still inflicting its reign of terror, we in HART visited and established a partnership with local people desperate to help orphans for whom there was no one to provide care. A key professional was the senior nurse, Pius. In addition to providing clinical care for orphans, including those with HIV, he also runs the local clinic, where he is confronted with massive clinical challenges, such as a lady who was eight months pregnant and had cerebral malaria. It was the rainy season and the nearest hospital was 40 kilometres away and inaccessible. Pius therefore carries full clinical responsibility in that area. When we invited a medical colleague with a special interest in tropical diseases to sit with Pius for a clinic, he said that Pius’ work was superb and could not be better. That initial programme has grown over 10 years from care for 39 orphans to provision of holistic nurse-led health care for over 600 HIV positive children and their families The second brief example comes from the little-known historically Armenian enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, which was subjected to attempted ethnic cleansing by Azerbaijan in the early 1990s but gained a ceasefire in 1994. When we asked the Government there for their aid priorities, they identified help for people with disabilities, as there was no effective provision in the former Soviet Union, where disability was still massively stigmatised. Our partner, Vardan, was given a bomb-damaged building, from which he developed a now internationally recognised centre of excellence, staffed by nurses. The member of his nursing staff with responsibly for treatment of pressure sores initially had to contend with horrific cases. One patient with fungating sores was suicidal. Marietta treated him so successfully that he recovered and began to make exquisite wood carvings, achieving self-esteem, financial provision for his family, and happiness These examples illustrate the competence and achievement of so many nurses—I could give so many other examples—working in very challenging situations in remote areas, sometimes in conflict or post-conflict situations. We celebrate their achievements perhaps particularly appropriately today, on International Nurses Day I therefore also greatly appreciate the work of the RCN, with its support for and participation in a number of nursing alliances in Europe and the Commonwealth, which not only seek to influence European and global policy but also spread learning and experience between nursing organisations; for example, the development of advanced practice on nurses’ key role in tackling antimicrobial resistance, and on addressing the health of the health workforce One example is RCN co-operation with the Zambia Union of Nurses Organization on its implementation of the WHO safe surgery checklist, and raising the profile of the profession in Zambia. This work and its visibility as an organisation that seeks to improve practice means that it is increasingly a partner of choice for the Zambian Ministry of Health. It has also helped it to build its own membership as a professional nursing association as well as a trade union The RCN also provided background to the Nursing Now campaign by undertaking research on key trends in nursing and identifying the areas that make a significant difference to nurses being able to achieve positive changes for health, including education, professional regulation, workforce resources, a pleasant working environment and nurses’ ability to influence and improve health policy. The RCN has committed to continue to raise the profile of this significant and global initiative I am delighted that the Triple Impact report and the Nursing Now initiatives have helped to highlight the fundamental importance of nursing here in the UK as well as in developing countries, where they are often the only providers of healthcare for large populations. As I have indicated, I have seen many inspirational examples of nursing practice in remote and very challenging situations, and I hope there will be a greater opportunity for a two-way programme of professional visits: for nurses from those areas to come to the UK to benefit from clinical updating in the latest developments, and for UK nurses to visit their colleagues in those remote situations, where they will benefit from the inspirational resourcefulness and professional competences of colleagues I therefore conclude by asking the Minister whether Her Majesty’s Government will provide adequate support for these two-way professional training programmes, which will help nursing, as the primary provider of healthcare around the world, to continue its vital contribution to the well-being of people globally.
My Lords, it is a real pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, in this debate. She is a renowned globetrotter when it comes to humanitarian missions in Africa and other lower and middle-income countries. It was also a privilege to succeed her as president of my old school, Dean Close The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, to whom we owe this debate, in his book Turning the World Upside Down, referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, records meeting the founder of the Bangladesh Rural Action Committee in his headquarters within sight of the slums of Bangladesh. He asked him how the world could make faster progress in reducing death in childbirth. His reply was, “Empower the women”. That single statement is what this debate is all about, for a high proportion of nurses globally are still women A hundred years since women got the vote in the UK, they have scaled unimaginable heights, with many in the top echelons of the NHS, in management as chief executives of hospitals, in the Department of Health or as consultant nurses. That is not so in many lower and middle-income countries. Here, I declare an interest as a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global Health, which in 2016 took evidence on the future development of nursing globally. The most telling comment in our report was that nurses, “are frequently not permitted to practise to the full extent of their competence; are unable to share their learning; and have too few opportunities to develop leadership, occupy leadership roles and influence wider policy” A commonly held term that has long been rejected in the UK was that, in not being able to utilise their skills, nurses were essentially “handmaidens” for doctors and had no scope for development. There are of course cultural and social barriers within developing countries which reinforce this stereotypical view, and it is time it was challenged. More must be done to empower women, who represent 90% of the nursing and midwifery workforce Another aspect of the Triple Impact report by the APPG on Global Health was the highlighting of workforce issues and the impact of migration. As noble Lords will know, I come from Ghana, which after 60 years of independence has faced many challenges in healthcare. I had worked there for a year in 1973, so can attest to the improvements nationally since that time. However, this evidence from Janet Kwansah on incentives for rural service among nurses in Ghana is worthy of note. She said: “Like many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, Ghana is faced with the simultaneous challenges of increasing its health workforce, retaining them in country and promoting a rational distribution of staff in remote or deprived areas of the country. Recent increases in both public-sector doctor and nurse salaries have contributed to a decline in international out-migration, but problems of geographic mal-distribution remain” Brexit will have a significant impact on the UK, as Europe currently supplies the highest proportion of overseas nurses, at 29%. Brexit will see many European nurses leave, and the UK will have to resist the temptation to recruit nurses from lower and middle-income countries, as it has done in the past. The dilemma will be how to induce European nurses to stay, while avoiding the targeting of countries with nursing shortages. I ask my noble friend the Minister what strategies the Government have in mind to overcome this problem and the concern that I am sharing with the House Finally, I want to mention a new initiative funded by the National Institute for Health Research—the global surgery unit. I declare an interest as chairman of the independent advisory board of that group. Its purpose is to undertake surgical research to improve health outcomes in lower and middle-income countries through developing pathways for surgical innovation. The aim is to deliver sustainable changes in surgical practice in operating theatres in three continents, supported by a consortium of three UK universities: Birmingham, Edinburgh and Warwick. It will deliver the project through five overseas limbs in central America, west Africa, southern and eastern Africa, and south Asia, and will involve 40 lower and middle-income hospitals. We hope that this will not only have an impact on front-line surgeons but encourage nurses to participate, raising their profile and encouraging others to consider a career in nursing, as nurses are seen as part of the extended team and not merely as the handmaidens of doctors When I was president of the college and subsequently, I was privileged to undertake various visits to east Africa—to Ethiopia, Malawi and other countries—taking surgical teams to train local surgeons in surgical procedures. One thing we always did was take a nurse with us—Judy Mewburn. She was a great asset because, while we were teaching the doctors how to carry out surgical procedures, she would take the nurses aside and show them how to set up the trolleys in a sterile way. It is that collaborative approach of doctors and nurses working together that I believe will make a big difference. We see the benefits and effects of teamworking in the UK, with nurses being much more involved in the work of doctors. I hope we will be able to take some of those messages overseas and, by doing so, empower women to take up nursing and to provide the best possible care for their patients.
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, and to know that, in our own ways, we strove to work collaboratively with nurses throughout our medical careers. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Crisp on this very stimulating debate. I would like to draw attention to the role of nursing in prevention and early intervention to improve mental health worldwide and to think about how nurses globally could learn from nursing experience in the United Kingdom in supporting people with learning disabilities and perhaps people with autism In this country, we rightly discuss the issue of parity of esteem between mental health and physical health. However, globally, the lack of parity is even more evident. The World Health Organization recognises the global burden of disease that mental health conditions produce. It reports that depression alone accounts for nearly 5% of the global burden of disease and is among the largest single causes of disability worldwide, with 11% of all years lived with disability globally. This burden is particularly great for women The World Health Organization also reports that almost half the world’s population lives in countries where, on average, there is one psychiatrist to serve 200,000 or more people. It states that between 76% and 85% of people with severe mental disorders receive no treatment for their disorder in low-income and middle- income countries. The King’s Sierra Leone Partnership describes how, historically, there has been one trained psychiatrist in the country—although encouragingly it describes that two more have finished their training in the last year. However, for a country of six million people, this produces a very different mental health service to the one we may be used to in this country. In this country, we have 6,000 psychiatrists on the specialist register, making up 6% of all specialty doctors What this suggests to me is that mental health policy globally faces challenges rather different from those we face here and that the solutions will therefore also be different. The answer to addressing the mental health gap globally may lie not in the medical schools but with community nurses and health visitors identifying mental illness and delivering psychosocial interventions. Making mental health a core component of any global health policy is essential to prevent it disappearing from view, which, as we know from our own country’s history, can easily happen Of all nurses in this country, 16% work in mental health or learning disability services. I suggest that there is an even greater role globally for nurses to lead mental health and disability policy. However, the reports attached to the briefing for this debate referred mainly to child health, infectious diseases, cardiovascular health and the like, with very few explicitly mentioning mental health conditions. I saw reference to diabetes and heart disease and to the burden of infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS and malaria, but I did not see references to learning disability—or intellectual disability, to use the international term—schizophrenia, alcohol dependence or depression. I will reflect on the history of learning disability nursing in the United Kingdom and Ireland. It is a condition-specific field of nursing that has developed over a few generations now, the role and function of which is to work face-to-face with individuals with intellectual disabilities, their supporters and their families to empower them in their lives and in their encounters with health services. In the health third sector and private and public agencies, learning disability nurses deliver specialist healthcare and support to people of all ages In the United Kingdom, the largest majority of individuals with learning disabilities live in the community, in their own homes with support systems or with their families. But as a group, they have the poorest health, which has a cumulative effect over the lifespan, and this will be true worldwide. They have a different range and pattern of disease and differing health-related behaviours. They have differing leading causes of death —respiratory disease, congenital heart disease and cancers—when compared to the general population. Gastro-oesophageal reflux disorder, sensory impairments, osteoporosis, dental caries, accidents and mental ill-health are all more common in this population group. The average age of death in this country is 20 years earlier when compared with the non-learning-disabled population. Significantly, we know that most of these deaths are unexpected, avoidable and preventable There is a challenge, however: half of learning disability nursing courses in this country are considering closure, despite rising numbers of vacancies within the NHS. The nurses who are still available are increasingly working in social care settings as managers, not delivering the face-to-face nursing skills that they have acquired and which are so essential for this group of people. One of our roles could be to consistently challenge policymakers, in this country and abroad, and to ask how the strategies they formulate improve prevention and identification and care for people with mental illness, and perhaps particularly for people with learning disabilities and autism. The role of nursing in transforming healthcare globally is huge, but let us ensure that this reduces, not increases, the disparity between mental and physical healthcare I will finish with another challenge: how to respond effectively to both online and offline sexual abuse and its impact on mental health, and the educational and preventative work being done by community nurses in some rural communities in Africa. Nurses are highly respected in all cultures. Their contribution to prevention and their compassionate listening responses could help to reduce the longer-term consequences of sexual abuse and to rebuild the resilience that each person needs in life.
My Lords, it is a real pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Hollins. I draw attention to my interests as outlined in the register, and in particular as president of the Florence Nightingale Foundation I thank my noble friend Lord Crisp for securing this timely debate, because 12 May was International Nurses’ Day, which I spent at the RCN Congress with 4,000 other nurses in Belfast. Many of them came from countries outside the UK, including nurses who trained in the EU, the Commonwealth and from other parts of the globe, yet currently work in our four countries. This collective of nurses demonstrated that we need to think about the nursing workforce as a global resource, as opposed to manpower planning being thought of in a vacuum country by country. There is evidence that, it we think and plan strategically, nurses can be key to the achievement of the universal health coverage strategic development goal In the excellent Library briefing for this debate, we are reminded that there are an estimated 43.5 million health workers around the world and that just under half, 20.7 million, are nurses and midwives, yet Global Health Observatory data suggests that half the World Health Organization member states have fewer than three nurses and midwives per 100,000 head of population, and a quarter fewer than one. WHO estimates that a further 2.8 million nurses and midwives will be needed in Africa and 1.9 million in south-east Asia by 2030. Will the Minister indicate in his reply how the UK will contribute to increasing the global healthcare workforce over the next decade through targeted investment Investing in nursing makes economic sense. As the UN High-Level Commission on Health Employment and Economic Growth argues, there are three impacts from investing in and developing the healthcare workforce: improved health outcomes for populations; global health security, particularly through the reduction of transmittable diseases; and economic growth through job creation. The report further suggests that there should be a focus on reforming aid and accountability for health system strengthening, with a focus on skilled health workers, which, it suggests, could initiate a new era of international co-operation and action for economic and human security My noble friend Lord Crisp has already reminded us that investment in nursing will enhance women’s equal participation in the economy, which the UK mission to the UN has already emphasised is vital to the eventual gender equality of women globally. That is not to say that we should not increase the male population in nursing too. In turn, one would anticipate a reduction in violence towards women if they are in a position to be financially self-supporting through working as nurses or other healthcare workers, thus enabling them to leave abusive relationships where they were previously held in economic handcuffs, and to work with other women in their communities to prevent cycles of abuse. How can the Government promote partnership and mutual learning between the UK and other countries to bring shared benefits The UN high-level commission makes a number of recommendations for reform, including at least four enabling actions: mobilising leadership, enhancing investment, aligning accreditation across the globe— as the noble Lord, Lord Willis, has implied—and strengthening global learning. I would welcome the Minister’s opinion on how we will monitor our successes and challenges in relation to the enabling actions suggested within the five-year timeframe of 2016-21. Is now an appropriate time to take stock and set some clear, measurable goals for the UK’s investment in associated issues? This must of course include developing our own workforce, as outlined by many other speakers in the debate, rather than continuing to rely on healthcare workers from overseas to staff our NHS and social services; depleting countries where there are already severe shortages in order to assist us is, to say the least, ethically questionable. However, overseas nurses are welcome here and opportunities for exchanges, strategic partnerships and alliances should always be promoted We know that nurses play a powerful and effective role in a range of healthcare settings and that many work in communities where they have lived for long periods. This makes them culturally sensitive and acceptable to the people they serve. The work that nurses have undertaken in Africa to reduce communicable diseases illustrates the effectiveness of their interventions. They continue to work to reduce the level of HIV and AIDS through health promotion. Similarly, nurses work with children and adults who have experienced extreme violence due to conflict and war, assisting them with mental health interventions as well as treating physical wounds Nursing Now, the global campaign to raise the status of the profession worldwide, involves than 40 countries with the backing of their respective Governments. The campaign was instrumental in influencing the World Health Organization to appoint a chief nurse to its new leadership team. How long will it be before England has a chief nurse at the Department of Health and Social Care, part of whose remit should include an international dimension? Can the Minister tell us how the Government have invested to promote nursing globally to date, and whether they will increase that investment with associated clear objectives to ensure that the triple impact of such investment on improving health, gender equality and strengthening economies may be measured? One method has been clearly identified in the interim report by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, reviewing healthcare in this country. It states: “Governments must stop approaching the NHS and social care as a liability to be managed and instead look at it as an investment that delivers a return. Good health is an asset” How can we ensure that health is really perceived as a human right through investing in healthcare workers globally? Does the Minister agree that at least in part, we must do this by further investment in our own workforce in the UK and making the nursing profession a desirable choice for young people here at home in the future? In this way, we will also become less dependent on recruiting excellent nurses from overseas and enable middle and lower-income countries to train and retain nurses in their own communities.
My Lords, the House will be very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for instituting this debate and I crave the indulgence of noble Lords for speaking in the gap. I must also ask for a further indulgence because this speech is not totally global in character. I speak as the former chairman of a central London independent hospital. Our experience, like that of many other hospitals and indeed of many patients, is of the excellence of nurses coming particularly from Australia, New Zealand and Canada. They have many attributes. On the whole they are very well trained in the British tradition. They have a reputation for being particularly good with patients, and of course they have the language. The attraction for them of coming to the UK is to work hard and save up for touring Europe, and certainly it has been the experience at our hospital that the limited stay is worth it for the service these nurses give during that period There is a distinct possibility that following Brexit, the number of nurses from the European Union will fall, and this has been highlighted in a rather depressing King’s Fund report published last October which many noble Lords will have received. This will obviously lead to an increase in demand for well-trained nurses from elsewhere. Incidentally, from that list of Australia, New Zealand and Canada, I deliberately omitted South Africa, because nurses are urgently needed in southern Africa, as highlighted by my noble friend Lord Ribeiro and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins of Tavistock Currently, the expenses for nurses coming from outside the European Union and taking up work in this country are very considerable. We cannot do anything about geography but the fact is that nurses coming from the European Union at the moment have virtually no expenses, except possibly those of getting their English up to speed. I highlight the work done by my noble friend Lord Howe three years ago in getting the European Union to correct that anomaly. I ask Her Majesty’s Government, when they are formulating immigration policy following Brexit, to pay particular attention to minimising costly red tape and encouraging the valuable source of nursing excellence for the betterment of healthcare in this country.
My Lords, I join noble Lords in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, on calling the debate and on the APPG report. It has been an excellent debate, with informed contributions from noble Lords across the House We are here to talk about the all-encompassing importance of investing in nursing around the world. As serendipity would have it, a Minister’s response to a Written Question popped into my inbox this morning. This was the Question: “To ask the Secretary of State for International Development, given the UK Government’s recent recommitment to defeating malaria, if her Department will increase investment in community-based primary healthcare programmes in remote, rural communities” This was the response from the Minister, Alistair Burt: “DFID supports low income countries to make faster progress towards universal health coverage, with a particular focus on improving access to good quality primary care in poorer, very often remote areas. This support to strengthening health systems helps to ensure that countries are better able to prevent, detect and treat all causes of ill health” I am sure that noble Lords will agree that this came as quite a useful prologue to thinking about the debate Who better to deliver these changes than nurses? Nurses are an integral part of the global health workforce. Universal health coverage promotes the notion that, despite where one is in the world and the economic situation people find themselves in, each global citizen has the right to quality healthcare. As a country proud of its NHS and its irreplaceable facilities, this notion is close and dear to our heart. Yet nurses around the world, including here in the UK, face 21st-century obstacles. Health systems remain fragmented and endure systemic troubles that impede the quality of care. Communities are experiencing disengagement from participating in elevating their own health. Funding is often mismanaged, misplaced or misguided. Our own health obstacles surrounding Brexit pose a challenge to staffing. Research into universal healthcare has brought to light issues that affect most, if not all, countries with a healthcare workforce: their training and education, staff shortages, problems with recruitment and retention and limited accessibility to proper resources. Some of those sound quite familiar to us here at home Of course, countries vary greatly from an economic, social and political perspective. That is why, to combat such issues and signal nurses’ irreplaceable status to the world, the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global Health published a critical report on nursing’s unique Triple Impact. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, on again putting his finger on the pulse. The report claims that investing in nursing globally progresses gender equality, builds strong economies and improves the health of all. Equality, prosperity and health: three fundamental legs that nursing strengthens. As the noble Lord said, that is a no-brainer On fortifying the equality, wellness and wealth of not just our own country but countries around the world, the report sets out several detailed recommendations and the practical applicability of each: nurses as policymakers; nurses developing their own potential through the Workforce 2030 initiative of the World Health Organization; nurses as leaders; nurses driving research, and nurses being empowered and therefore empowering other women Let us not forget the “global” aspect of investing in nurses globally. The UK must be a willing, active and successful participant when working with, and learning from, leading global health organisations. The exchange of health knowledge only improves Britain’s soft diplomatic power with nations of the world The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, mentioned gender; the noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, mentioned prescribing. I wonder whether the noble Baroness was a Minister or Secretary of State at the time, but I remember two key changes which transformed the dynamic among health professionals and improved healthcare in my home county of Cornwall. The first was the de-medicalisation of community hospitals in the 1990s, turning them into effective, nurse-led step up, step down units; and, a bit later, the establishment of effective minor injury units in those hospitals. With those two changes came the impact of nurse prescribing GPs, predominantly men, were suspicious of both innovations, but now, 20 years on, nurses, predominantly female, have proved that with appropriate training and support they can lead healthcare in a local setting. Thinking of a global parallel, I remember several years ago the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, and I joining a party to Zambia. We visited a hospital out in the bush. Much like our community hospitals in Cornwall, they were then nurse-led very effectively, with not a doctor in sight. Doctors are great, but we do not need them all the time I return to the global agenda. Next month, we celebrate 70 years of the NHS. Twenty years ago, I was at the NHS Confederation conference to celebrate 50 years of the NHS. One of the most impressive speakers was the Health Minister from South Africa, who implored us not to poach her nurses. That country invests a significantly higher proportion of its GDP than us in training nurses. She asked us to desist and let them develop their strengths and health services in country. That is as important 20 years on as it was then Sponsored by the World Health Organization and the International Council of Nurses, Nursing Now takes these recommendations and works towards creating a world community that offers nurses more acknowledgment, security and authority. Nursing Now reminds us that the great power nurses hold, especially in this dynamic and cautious time, is unmatched and has a long reach. I would be grateful if the Minister told us how DfID intends to engage in this way, and what might be the timescale and the short-term and long-term investment.
My Lords, I too thank the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for initiating what has become a timely debate. Of course, it was not originally scheduled for now, but it has been incredibly timely, for all the reasons that noble Lords set out in the debate. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Willis, for putting out a tweet earlier about trying to prompt a debate among nurses. At my early morning swim at 6.30 this morning I ran into a couple of nurses—it is true, I was there. I spoke to a nurse and he then subsequently tweeted about tonight’s debate and it generated quite a thread of comments, which I really appreciated. One I thing I am certain about is that nurses certainly have a lot to say and are showing concern, not just about their own situation but about the global situation. The most common thing I heard was that health and disease know no boundaries. We have to address this and see it as a global issue A key goal of the UN’s 2030 development agenda is that everyone in the world should have access to healthcare—universal health coverage—and that nobody should be left behind. Today’s debate and the Nursing Now campaign make the case very strongly that this cannot possibly be achieved without strengthening nursing globally. This is partly about increasing the number of nurses. One thing we have heard in the debate, and certainly I read it on Twitter today, is that nurses have real concerns on staffing, inadequate facilities and resources, and the lack of effective support. All these things impact negatively on the ability of nurses to provide a safe and effective service. But strengthening nursing is also, as we have heard, about making sure their contribution is properly understood and enabling them to work to their full potential. As the Global Health APPG report, in which noble Lords participated, said, strengthening nursing will have a triple impact in improving health, promoting gender equality and supporting economic growth. I shall return to that point later. To bring about the change we have heard we need, we really need to persuade politicians to work with the profession, addressing how nurses are perceived. Their potential is, sadly, overlooked because of strict hierarchies and engrained ideas about what nurses can and cannot do. I hope the Minister will take up the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, of a high-level meeting with the profession, so we can talk about these issues, not just in the context of the National Health Service but how DfID’s strategy is addressing these issues globally As the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, said, Ebola taught us that tackling that crisis required the strengthening of healthcare systems: growing the number of primary healthcare staff and their training; building scientific capacity in diagnostics and public health labs; and supporting public health messaging and outreach generally. Of course, this touches on education, which is such an important element of primary healthcare. Many countries have had insufficient investment in their health systems. Universal health coverage can make more countries resilient to health concerns, particularly about new diseases that may emerge, before they become widespread emergencies Another clear lesson from Ebola was the role of community engagement, which has all too often been regarded as a soft and relatively non-technical add-on to medical interventions. A good example, which I know I have raised in previous debates, was the DfID-funded social mobilisation action consortium in Sierra Leone, which brought together the local BBC Media Action group, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Focus 1000 and Restless Development. Through their activity those NGOs, working with community and religious leaders, and partner radio stations covering every district in Sierra Leone, achieved tangible behavioural change around safe burials, early treatment and social acceptance of Ebola survivors. The stigma of disease is another issue that we have to address through education As noble Lords have said, the health professionals closest to the communities are the nurses, who are promoting good health and preventing disease as well as providing care at the community level. They are at the heart of most health teams. They support and supervise community health workers and link to more specialist care when needed The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, spoke about the £5 million which is certainly an extremely welcome grant from DfID. However, I want to hear from the Minister tonight just how DfID is translating the lessons that we have learned from the Ebola case, for example. How are we translating those lessons into specific action, particularly in Africa? We have heard about ageing populations and the rapid rise of diseases such as diabetes and heart disease, which are putting all health systems across the globe under strain. But in poorer regions, that comes on top of the burden of infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS and malaria. The global shortage of health workers means that there simply are not enough to tackle these threats. This debate has highlighted not only the importance of nursing but the work of our international development strategies. It has highlighted the fact that we do not deal with health simply in isolation. We must see these as global threats but also as having global solutions. It is not only that other countries can learn from us but more importantly, as the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, has said, that some of these innovations, particularly in Africa, are ones that we can learn from. That is why we should be focusing on this issue, and I welcome this debate.
My Lords, I, too, welcome this debate and join others in paying tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, for securing it and for the enormous personal contribution which he has made to raising the profile of nursing both here in the UK and around the world. The debate has drawn on the immense depth of expertise that resides on this subject in your Lordships’ House It is worth noting, for the record, as I found when I prepared for the debate, that contributions have come from two nurses—crucially, I start with them—but also from a former Permanent Secretary and a former chief executive of NHS England, a former Secretary of State and Minister of State for Health, as well as a fellow and an honorary vice-president of the Royal College of Nursing, a former president of the Royal College of Surgeons, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, a professor of nursing and a former hospital chairman.
I do not know what category I fit into.
Swimmers, of course, are doing health promotion, and we pay tribute to the noble Lord’s work in this area This has been an excellent debate and I will respond to some of the points. The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, set the tone by reminding us of the critical role that nurses play in ensuring the delivery of holistic, patient-centred healthcare. The noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, reminded us that nursing is the most trusted of professions. That carries wider benefits to health efforts. The noble Lord, Lord Willis, reminded us that nurses can be a catalyst for change in developing countries. The noble Baroness, Lady Masham, reminded us of the courage of our NHS volunteers who went out to tackle the outbreak of Ebola in Sierra Leone. The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, gave many powerful, practical examples of nursing achievement in delivering clinical care in remote and challenging situations. My noble friend Lord Ribeiro hit the nail on the head when he spoke about the role that nursing has in women’s empowerment, which is critical across so many areas The noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, talked about how nurses could be there in early intervention in mental health conditions. The noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, spoke about seeing nurses as a global resource in delivering the sustainable development goals relating to health. The noble Viscount, Lord Bridgeman, reminded us of the costs and administrative burdens faced by those coming to study nursing in this country. The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, summed it up by saying that nursing delivers equality, prosperity and health. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, reminded us that, in these matters, the issues of health and disease know no national boundaries in the way they operate and therefore that they demand a different set of solutions I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, on their leadership on this issue since the launch of Nursing Now, which, the noble Lord, Lord Willis, reminded us, was attended by Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge and was a great success. I am delighted that my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department for International Development, Harriett Baldwin, attended and used that opportunity and platform to announce our support for nursing globally and for the campaign through our health partnership programme, starting in 2019. It is a £5 million programme that a number of noble Lords have welcomed. It will be allocated to focus on nurses and midwives. The programme is designed to address the priorities identified by countries and will focus on nurse leadership where it is part of a country’s health workforce strategy Through these partnerships we will work with countries to build comprehensive and effective healthcare systems, not just to deliver separate projects. The programme brings benefits to developing countries and to the UK health system from the increased skills and motivation that UK health workers acquire when working overseas. That is why this campaign recognises the vital role of nurses at the centre of every health system around the world. Nurses account for nearly 50% of the global health workforce. Their knowledge, skills and motivation are crucial in delivering health services to all, including to the poorest As the Triple Impact report and the Nursing Now campaign highlight, many countries are grappling with enormous challenges, including shortages, skills, gaps in leadership and challenges mentioned in particular by the noble Lord, Lord Crisp. In the UK, nurses are at the heart of our NHS. We want to keep these hard-working staff and build a workforce fit for the future. My noble friend Lord Ribeiro and the noble Lord, Lord Willis, among others referred to concerns they had about our capacity to train the nurses we need. We have announced 5,000 more nurse training places from 2018, alongside new routes into the profession and continuing measures to improve the work/life balance Globally, the World Health Organization and the World Bank estimate that countries will need to create around 40 million new health and social care jobs by 2030—a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins. Low-resource countries, where these are needed most, face the greatest shortages of 18 million health workers. We must support them to train and deploy the health workers they need so they can access essential health services The noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, spoke about the importance of the retention of trained staff in Ghana. The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, spoke about her experiences at the conference and talked about the importance of the retention of staff in South Africa. The noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, rightly raised ethical questions about recruitment from some developing nations. That is why the UK Government support the World Health Organization’s Global Code of Practice on the International Recruitment of Health Personnel, which ensures that developing nations that are experiencing critical shortages of healthcare staff are not targeted for recruitment As the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, has argued, this is not just about health services. Investments in the health workforce go beyond improving health. The health sector offers employment opportunities for women and strengthens local economies. The UN High-Level Commission on Health Employment and Economic Growth, which the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, referred to, found that in 123 countries women make up 67% of workers in health and social sectors. The noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, and the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, referred to this as well. The commission has estimated that women would take between 59% and 70% of additional jobs created in education, health and social services. These opportunities will be even more important in low-income countries, where women are often excluded from formal employment To promote these opportunities in the health sector, a DfID programme in Bangladesh, for example, is aiming to ensure that 4,300 licensed midwives are employed. Some 30% of these will be in remote areas, providing opportunities to young women where other formal employment opportunities are scarce. To deliver and sustain this triple impact, the Government remain committed to working in partnership with countries to strengthen their health systems by improving their health workforces, including addressing the global shortage of nurses and midwives, to ensure that no one is left behind. DfID improves access to and the quality of health services by supporting training, mentorship and supervision for health workers; for example, in Kenya we have trained 7,000 nurses and midwives in emergency obstetric and newborn care. This has already resulted in a 10% reduction in maternal deaths Our programmes also invest in nurse leadership, which the noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, referred to. Through a UK partnership, 20 nurses in Uganda have been trained by UK volunteers in nurse leadership for palliative care. I think the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, referred to this programme. These nurses have supported the training of 154 other health workers and empowered them to take on care traditionally delivered by doctors and to broaden access to palliative care In the time available I will turn to some of the questions that were raised. If I do not cover them all, I will of course write. The noble Baroness, Lady Masham, and my noble friend Lord Bridgeman asked about EU nurses leaving after the referendum. Overall, there are 3,600 more EU staff working in the NHS since the referendum. We have seen a small reduction in the number of EU nurses working in the NHS over the period. However, this is due mainly to the introduction of new language tests by the Nursing and Midwifery Council. The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, asked about healthcare in challenging conflict situations. The UK Emergency Medical Team, including nurses, spent over six weeks training more than 3,000 Rohingya people, with local Bangladeshi nurses working alongside them, learning vital infection prevention and control skills. The local nurses are now tackling diphtheria in the Cox’s Bazar camps The noble Lord, Lord Willis, was right to pay tribute to Jackie Smith, the Nursing and Midwifery Council chief executive, who has announced that she is retiring. We join the noble Lord in paying tribute to her leadership of the NMC over the past six years and wish her every success for the future The noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, wondered, after the World Health Organization’s appointment, how long it would be before there was a chief nurse at the Department of Health. The Chief Nursing Officer for England, Jane Cummings, advises the Government on nursing workforce issues. We are delighted that her office is working with the noble Lord, Lord Crisp, and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, on the Nursing Now campaign The noble Baroness, Lady Bottomley, spoke about the Commonwealth connection. I am pleased to confirm that Nursing Now representatives took part in a recent Commonwealth summit event through the Commonwealth Nurses and Midwives Conference The noble Lord, Lord Crisp, asked whether nurses were at the forefront of health strategies. The UK recognises the critical role played by nurses. Our bilateral programmes, our support for the World Health Organization’s leadership and our investments in strengthening health systems all promote this essential role The noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, asked about mental health and specialist nurses. We recognise that nurses deliver specialist services. The UK funds a research programme called PRIME and a programme in Ghana, improving the care of patients with mental health issues. The disability summit in July this year will highlight the need for services to be inclusive and cater for all needs so that no one is left behind There is a wealth of expertise in this area in this House which has been demonstrated in this Chamber today. We remain open to other ideas on how we can build on our commitment to support nurses and midwives through health partnerships The noble Lord asked me a specific question on the round table. I will take that back and talk with my ministerial colleagues about it. It seems a sensible way forward and I know that the Ministers Burt, Baldwin and others have appreciated their engagement with him on the Nursing Now campaign. Through DfID and other departments we are committed to playing a part in enhancing the vital contribution of nurses and midwives in healthcare and prevention for all, especially for the poorest people in developing countries.