Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 95]
TOP SECRET1191 Mrs. Burke. I see. I thought --2 Mr. Nosenko. Interpreter, I never mentioned.3 Mrs. Burke. You never mentioned the interpreter?4 Mr. Nosenko. No. I do not remember her name.5 Mrs. Burke. It was just this officer Rastrusin?6 Mr. Nosenko. Officer, yes.7 Mrs. Burke. He was -- but he was the one that found -- wasn't he the one that found Oswald?9 Mr. Nosenko. No, this is the officer who reported about him.11 Mrs. Burke. He reported it, but he didn't find him?12 Mr. Nosenko. No, no, interpreter found him with administration of the hotel where Oswald was staying.14 Mrs. Burke. Oh, I see.15 Mr. Nosenko. You see, interpreter has come in the morning to take him or has come to take him to city, to show him, as interpreter on a guide, on a tour. And she was waiting about 20, 25, 30 minutes and was concerned.19 The Chairman. Time is up. One more.20 Mrs. Burke. All right, just one more question.21 When Oswald arrived, then, he didn't speak very much Russian, is that right?23 Mr. Nosenko. No. Ididn't hear that he spoke in Russian.24 Mrs. Burke. I see. Were there any notations at all in the file -- what is your understanding of his fluency in RussianTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 96]
# TOP SECRET1201 during the time of his stay?2 Mr. Nosenko. Well, during time of his stay surely he3 started a little bit to talk, but it wasn't very, it wasn't4 good Russian. It wasn't even --5 The Chairman. The time of the gentlewoman has expired.6 Mrs. Burke. Thank you.7 The Chairman. Mr. Dodd.8 Mr. Dodd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.9 I would like to just pick up on that line of questioning,10 if I could, with you, Mr. Nosenko.11 Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, Oswald,12 you were aware of Oswald's desire to defect. There was a13 decision, and in fact he was informed through his Intourist14 guide that his request had been rejected.15 Is that correctsso far?16 Mr. Nosenko. Is in general, but it wasn't in this ways17 told to him. It was in so-called, you know, soft manner. It18 was explained to him by through Intourist --19 Mr. Dodd. That he would have to go through his embassy?20 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, that Intourist not dealing with this21 question. He must go through this, this, this procedures.22 Mr. Dodd. Okay.23 Now, you, at the time of this, of Oswald's request, you24 were working in the Seventh Department of the Second Directorate25 which was involved with tourism?NW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 97# TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 97]
TOP SECRET 121Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Dodd. Okay. Could you tell me what would be the normal operating procedures within the Soviet Union if a tourist were involved, say, in a car accident with an Intourist guide. Say a Frenchman was involved in a car accident. Assuming it was not his fault, someone hit him, what happens? Do they notify immediately the French Embassy, what steps do they take in order to deal with that individual?Mr. Nosenko. I would assume, sir, that he will be, sure, he immediately will be taken in polyclinic, will be informeld his embassy.Mr.Dodd. Those kind of steps.Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Dodd. If you had made a decision that Oswald should not be accepted in the Soviet Union, and if you find him in his room with his wrist slit, why don't you then contact the American Embassy and notify them that you have an American on your hands who just tried to kill himself?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, he wasn't an employee of American embassy.Mr. Dodd. He was a tourist, though.Mr.Nosenko. A tourist.Mr. Dodd. And I just asked you about a Frenchman who might be a tourist and get in a car accident, and you said you would take him to the hospital, you would notify the embassy. WhyTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 98]
TOP SECRET                                                                                                  1221 don't you take Mr. Oswald to the hospital and notify the2 American embassy?3 Mr. Nosenko. Nobody knew that he would cut wrist.4 Mr. Dodd. No, but you found him with his wrist cut.5 Mr. Nosenko. Right. He was delivered in hospital .6 Mr. Dodd. Why didn't you notify the American embassy?7 Mr. Nosenko. He wasn't dying, he wasn't serious, they8 made transfusion and put stitches. It is -- I am telling what9 I think why it was.10 Mr. Dodd. You understand my problem here. You have got11 someone who you don't want to accept him. You have already12 made a decision that he shouldn't be allowed to defect. You13 walk into his room and find him with his wrist slit, it would14 seem to me that this guy has already indicated just by that act15 alone that he is not playing with a full deck of cards, and16 you decide then that you are going to accept him because you17 are worried that it might cause some embarrassment after Camp18 David.19 Mr. Nosenko. No. But the question to inform the Embassy,20 it must be passing through such stage. Intourist itself cannot21 contact the American Embassy.22 Mr. Dodd. No, obviously.23 Mr. Nosenko. No. They must contact their Minister of24 Foreign Trade which in its turn putting question to Ministry of25 Foreign Affairs, and Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the SovietNW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 99TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 99]
TOP SECRET123Union can contact the embassy.Mr. Dodd. LEt me jump onto something else quickly in the time we've got.You knew that Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine?Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Dodd. You knew by your answer to Mrs. Burke's question a minute ago that Oswald had a student's knowledge of Russian?Mr. Nosenko. When he was living in Minsk, not before, before he has come. No.Mr. Dodd. You didn't know that?Mr. Nosenko. No, when he was living in Minsk, when he was in daily contact with Soviets working at the plant and having friends.Mr. Dodd. Did you know that he had been a student of Marxism?Mr. Nosenko. No.Mr. Dodd. Did you know that he had given the U.S. embassy his notice to defect?Mr. Nosenko. No. I know that he visited embassy and after was, he was told that he will be allowed to stay, after this.Mr. Dodd. You were not aware at that time that he contacted through Intourist and eventually your office and made it known that he intended to defect or wanted to defect, you were not aware or your department was not aware that he hadTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 100]
TOP SECRET1241 already notified the American embassy that he intended to2 defect?3 Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no, sir.4 Mr. Dodd. You were not aware of that.5 Mr. Nosenko. No. He wasn't under surveillance... We6 didn't know. When he was going alone without interpter, we7 didn't know.8 Mr. Dodd. I didn't ask you how you know. I just asked9 you whether or not -- he didn't tell you that?10 Mr. Nosenko. No. Nobody from KGB talked with him.11 The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.12 Mr. Sawyer?13 Mr. Sawyer. When Congressman Devine asked you how you14 knew your family was okay or that they hadn't invoked any15 reprisals, I didn't get the answer.16 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I asked Mr. Solie in '69, '70, once17 I asked, anything about my family?18 Mr. Sawyer. Mr. who?19 Mr. Nosenko. Mr. Bruce Solie, CIA officer who was in20 contact with me, '69, '70. He answered me that they are all21 right, everything okay. But he didn't went in any detail22 and I never returned more to this question. But there is another23 point, sir. Besides the father's position, after he died, she24 was receiving, she received pension, and besides that, for25 the years
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 101]
TOP SECRET1251 Mr. Sawyer. How did you know she died?2 Mr. Nosenko. Father died, I said. Father died in 1956.3 After father's death she received a pension.4 Mr. Sawyer. I understand. You went through that before.5 I noticed here though, when he slashed his wrist, the6 psychiatric examination report here by the doctor says the7 patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian,8 so he must have spoken Russian, you know, to whatever degree, when he went there.9 I thought you said you were always10 interested in someone who can speak Russian or has studied11 anything Russian.12 Mr. Nosenko. Who specializes in any field of Russia,13 who will be working for the United States government.14 Mr. Sawyer. But here is a guy at that time, when he first15 came there, within a matter of days after, the doctor says the16 patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian.17 Mr. Nosenko. Sir --18 Mr. Sawyer. That would have keyed interest right there, wouldn't it?19 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, if we knew that he studied in Columbia20 University, in Yale University --21 Mr. Sawyer. Well, it says right --22 Mr. Nosenko. In Russian Institute.23 Mr. Sawyer. It says on the report, this was on the 21st or the 23rd or 25th of October, a week after he arrived, it2425NW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 102TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 102]
TOP SECRET                                                                     1261 says the patient apparently understands the questions asked2 in Russian. So you knew he spoke Russian at that time. And yet3 that was one of your criteria.4 Mr. Nosenko: Well, sir5 Mr. Sawyer. Something else I am a little curious about.6 Apparently, coming here, wanting to defect, wanting to leave7 America, wanting Russia, here is a guy that if he didn't8 know anything would be apparently capable of going back to the9 United States at the behest of KGB in areas of the country that10 Russian diplomats and so forth, KGB people weren't allowed to go11 and dig up information for them and come back. Here is a guy12 you didn't have to threaten, he volunteers. And it seems strange13 you wouldn't talk to him or be interested in him just from that14 point of view.15 And how -- and another thing that greatly bothers me,16 how did you know that he, being in the Marines, you knew that,17 but how did you know he wasn't a cryptographer or how did18 you know he wasn't stationed in the Office of the Joint Chiefs19 of Staff as a guard or as a messenger or a clerk, or that he20 worked with U-2s, which apparently he did. Why would the KGB21 not at least find these things out, with a guy that wants to22 go to Russia, wants to be a Russian?23 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I only can repeat you, when on him was24 received the first information about his arrival, checkup was25 made on him. There wasn't any existing material in KGB, anyNW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 103TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 103]
TOP SECRET127knowledge about him. He never was before in the Soviet Union.In judging by the question --Mr. Sawyer. Why weren't they asking, why wouldn't theyask, that's the question. Why wouldn't they ask?Mr. Nosenko. They are not --Mr. Sawyer. Apparently they knew he could speak Russian.Mr. Nosenko. -- asking Americans approaching.Judging by the questionnaire, they decided, the KGB decided, Seventh Department, he is not an interesting target.Mr. Sawyer. Well, why would a person like this not even be interesting for something like the Tokyo Rose, on some kind of propaganda program where he could say how bad things were in the United States, and why he didn't want to stay there anymore and how great they were in Russia, like these propagandists do?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I am telling you why it was decided, and how KGB was thinking about him.Mr. Sawyer. I yield back the balance of my time.The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.Mr. Fithian...Mr. Fithian. Mr. Chairman, I just now got this report. I wonder if I could let Mr.Edgar go ahead of me?The Chairman. The Chair will recognize Mr. Edgar.Mr. Edgar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.I have a series of questions which I hope most of whichNW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 104TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 104]
TOP SECRET1281 will be yes and no kinds of questions.2 Did you conduct in the KGB a program to compromise and3 recruit journalists?4 Mr. Nosenko. I was working, when I started to work in the5 KGB in 1953, the first year I was working against American6 correspondents.7 Mr. Edgar. But the KGB, not you personally, but the KGB8 did have a policy of going against journalists and trying to9 compromise them, yes or no??10 Mr. Nosenko. Trying to recruit or compromise them.11 Mr. Edgar. Did they censor all the journalists' notes12 that they could gather from the journalists? Did they censor13 the notes before they allowed the story to go out?14 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.15 Mr. Edgar. Priscilla Johnson interviewed Oswald on the16 15th of November, 1959. Would the KGB have looked at her17 notes from that interview?18 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, they are censored not by the KGB, but19 there is special -- it is government organization was censoring20 this. Some materials are coming to the KGB, some are not21 coming.22 Mr. Edgar. Well, she reveals in her article that he was a23 Marxist, that Oswald was a Marxist and a Marine Corps radar24 man. It would seem to me the KGB would have discovered that25 in November of 1959.TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 105]
TOP SECRET 129Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I didn't know this in those days.Mr. Edgar. Do you know a correspondent by the name of Arlenee Mosby??Mr. Nosenko. Yes, I heard such a name, Mosby, a woman who was a correspondent.Mr. Edgar. In the earlier questioning of Congresswoman Burke, you were not confusing MArlene Mosby with the treatment of Priscilla Johnson?Mr. Nosenko. I think it was Priscilla Johnson, the case which I described, I think so. I think so, it was Priscilla Johnson.Mr. Edgar. How do you know?Mr. Nosenko. What I heard from colleagues who were in KGB, who were working against correspondents.Mr. Edgar. But you are not absolutely clear?Mr. Nosenko. And then there was an article in --Mr. Edgar. You are not absolutely --Mr. Nosenko. In literary newspaper, I think it was, not in Pravad, Izvestia, but in Literary Gazette.Mr. Edgar. But you are not absolutely certain?Mr. Nosenko. No. I think it was Priscilla Johnson, as I said.Mr. Edgar. But it could have been someone else.Mr. Nosenko. An American correspondent, woman.Mr. Edgar. Are you certain that after 1967 you sat downTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 106]
TOP SECRET1301 with the CIA and corrected your earlier statements about Oswald,2 yes or no?3 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.4 Mr. Edgar. We have only a few pages of written testimony,5 some three pages that you gave, and in fact, in the beginning6 part of that testimony, you indicate that you don't want to go..7 through it again because your earlier testimony will stand for.8 itself. I am paraphrasing what you said.9 Were the notes and the recordsings of those corrections10 made and kept by the CIA?11 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, Mr. Bruce Solie talking with me every day12 for a period from the end of '67, the whole '68, 1968, '69, every13 conversation he was recording. But he never has come and showed14 his notes, transcriptions or anything. He was returning to15 every case, to every aspect by 20, 25, 30 times.16 Mr. Edgar. But specifically on the Oswald case, would it17 be correct in our assuming that it was more than three pages of18 notes on specifically Lee Harvey Oswald after 1967?19 Mr. Nosenko. If he was raising questions concerning also20 Lee Harvey Oswald.21 MR. Edgar. We have some information that Bruce Solie --22 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, Mr. Solie.23 Mr. Edgar. Stated in a deposition that there is nothing on24 Oswald other than the three pages.25 Mr. Nosenko. I cannot say how many pages. I know
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 107]
# TOP SECRET131that he was passing through all cases, all questions, with mefor the period almost two years.Mr. Edgar. Who other than Bruce Solie did you talk to about correcting your earlier statements?Mr. Nosenko. I wasn't correcting them. They were correcting; they were talking returning back to every case.Mr. Edgar. One final question.Mr. Nosenko. And also besides Mr. Solie, were people coming from FBI with cases in which were interested for them.Mr. Edgar. One final question. You stopped our hearing about an hour ago and were concerned about our playing the tape and bringing up old memories, and I respect the fact that you are very patriotic in coming before this Committee and helping us.Would you be willing to sit down with our staff and go through a series of written questions which outline specifically for you the contradictions of your 1964, '65, '66 and early '67 timeframe, with the statements that you made, in '67, '68 and '78, and indicate in a yes-no manner which statement, laid side by side, is true and which statement is false?Mr. Nosenko. If it is the wish of the Committee, sure..Mr. Edgar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.Mr. Fithian?Mr. Fithian. Mr. Nosenko, do you remember when it was that the FBI first interviewed you concerning Oswald?
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 108]
TOP SECRET132Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not remember dates, but --Mr. Fithian. It was between February and April?Mr. Nosenko. Right, right.Mr. Fithian. The information we have is that it was early March, the first week in March. Is that about right?Now, have you talked to the FBI about that testimony at any time since then?Mr. Nosenko. Gentlemen, on many, many times I have seen FBI, many, many questions raised. I cannot -- about this testimony, no, no.Mr. Fithian. About the Oswald testimony?Mr. Nosenko. About Oswald were asked questions, but not about this testimony. I do not remember about this testimony.Mr. Fithian. My question is, there is a written transcript summary of your testimony to the FBI taken on March 5th, 1964.Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Fithian. My question is, have you at any time since then visisted with the FBI about this testimony?Mr. Nosenko. No, sir, no, sir.Mr. Fithian. Now, next, when -- what is your understanding as to when Oswald first offered to defect, when you first knew, when the KGB first knew he was interested in defecting?Mr. Nosenko. I cannot give you a date.Mr. Fithian. All right.Well, he filled out an application --
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 109]
TOP SECRET133Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no application, in oral form. Hetold the interpreter in oral form.Mr. Fithian. This was the Intourist?Mr. Nosenko. Interpreter of the Intourist.Mr. Fithian. And then the Intourist came to the KGB?Mr. Nosenko. Right, and it immediately was informed to KGBthat this American applies, wants to stay, said to interpreter.Mr. Fithian. And then you reviewed the file?Mr. Nosenko. It was several pieces of pages what we had onhim. It wasn't even file.Mr. Fithian. But you reviewed whatever applications --Mr. Nosenko. Right. No it wasn't application to stay. He inoral form told the interpreter that he wants to stay SovietUnion.Mr. Fithian. You reviewed the pages that he had filled outfor the visa and any other sheets that you had?Mr. Nosenko. He didn't -- yes, these documents, yes, forthe visa, questionnaire and --Mr. Fithian. Yes. What I am trying to get at is what didyou have in front of you physically, knowledgeably about Oswald?Mr. NOsenko. What I remember, it was it was several pagesonly, was questionnaire, was form of document from Intouristreceived how long his tour and how many days. There was checksof Oswald in archives of KGB to forms. There was information fromIntourist who work with OswaldTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 110]
TOP SECRET134Mr. Fithian. All right. Let me just stop you here.Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Fithian. The forms in there by the KGB were filled out based on what information?Mr. Nosenko. On his name, what he supplied, who he is, when he was asking visa.Mr. Fithian. But they conducted no check, no search?Mr. Nosenko. It is in the archives of KGB, if he ever was in Soviet Union, on him there will be something. If he wasn't in Soviet Union but he was known to intelligence service --Mr. Fithian. But you didn't have any record on that.Mr. Nosenko. Nothing.Mr. Fithian. And so the final question is that the only thing that you had to judge -that he was an uninteresting subject was what he had told the Intourist guide?Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Fithian. That is the only substantive thing?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir, and his questionnaire for who he is, his name, whatever he filled about himself. That's all.The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.The Chair has one additional request from one member, for one additional question.Mr. Sawyer?Mr. Sawyer. I just have one additional question, and that is the $80,000 you got for compensation and the $15,000 or $20,000TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 111]
TOP SECRET135you got later, that was net money after whatever taxes or whateverit wasMr. Nosenko. Yes, after all taxes were taken.Mr. Sawyer. Thank you.Mr. Dodd. Mr. Chairman?The Chairman. Mr. Dodd?Mr. Dodd. I just wondered for the record, I wondered if, Mr. Nosenko, you could tell us when you arrived in this country on February 12th, 1964, between February 12th, 1964 and April 4th, 1964, where were you in this country?Mr. Nosenko. February 12 of 1964 and April 4th, I was staying in house in Virginia. I do not know address.Mr. Dodd. Did you go -- did you travel at all?Mr. Nosenko. No, sir.Mr. Dodd. No vacation?Mr. Nosenko. Oh, I went in March on week to Hawaii I was.Mr. Dodd. Were you on your own?Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no, with guards.Mr. Dodd. It was a relaxed period for you and just a chance to rest?Mr. Nosenko. Chance to get a little bit rest.Mr. Dodd. Is it your knowledge that this is the normal way that defectors are treated when they come to this country?Mr. Nosenko. I do not know.Mr. Dodd. Just one last point, Mr. Chairman, and that isTOP SECRETALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 112]
# TOP SECRET136with regard to the American exhibit, as a result of a statement by Mr. Klein which I understand you did not disagree with, the American exhibit ended on Sepgember 4th, 1959? That's when the termination of the exhibit was?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, he showed me an article.Mr. Dodd. Is it your knowledge that employees that worked during the exhibit stayed on for a period of time after that?Mr. Nosenko. Sure, to it will be disassembled, this is the whole process is going on. It is closed for visitors to visit, to look.Mr. Dodd. How long a period would that have been, a week?Mr. Nosenko. No, more.Mr. Dodd. More?Mr. Nosenko. More, sure.Mr. Dodd. Thank you, Mr.Chairman.The Chairman. Mr. Nosenko, with reference to your earlier comments this evening regarding what transpired during your period of isolation, which you described as extreme spartan conditions, I would like to make this request of you. I think the record ought to in a very graphic way portray those conditions under which you were subjected during that period of time, and while you are complying with Mr. Edgar's request and working with the staff in terms of the contradictory data, would you also agree to work with the staff in terms of seeing that the record has a complete and accurate description# TOP SECRETALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 113]
TOP SECRET137Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.The Chairman. --of all the conditions which you underwentduring that period?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.The Chairman. Thank you.Did you have some?Mr. Cornwell. Following up on the question that CongressmanDodd just asked you, the staff, in an attempt to determine how longit took to disassemble the exhibition, checked with a knowledge-able employee who was involved in that process in the StateDepartment and were informed by that person that the exhibitionwas disassembled and the persons who were operating it hadleft by October the 4th, approximately 30 days after theexhibition was terminated.Would you disagree with that information?Mr. Nosenko. No, sir, I cannot disagree. I do not remember.I do not know, even, when they left, no, sir.Mr. Cornwell. That is all I have.The Chairman. Anything further from the Committee?Now, Mr. Devine, do you have anything?Mr. Devine. No. He is under continuing subpoena.The Chairman. Under the rules of the Committee, Mr. Nosenko, any witness appearing before our Committee is entitled at the conclusion of his testimony to address the Committee for a period of five minutes for the purpose of clarifying anythingTOP SECRET