Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 21]
TOP SECRETwhich told -- Number 8 -- what date he came to the Soviet Union.Is that still there?Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. This is admittance to the hospital and dischargement.Mr. Klein. Number 8?Mr. Nosenko. Arrival, October 16.Mr. Klein. And the date on the hospital admittance is what date?Mr. Nosenko. Twenty-third of October.Mr. Klein. And would you turn to the hospital admittance form, the one I just gave you, to the third page, please?Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Klein. And do you see where it says "History of Present Illness"?Mr. Nosenko. No, I don't see.Mr. Klein. On the third page?Mr. Nosenko. I have the third page.Mr. Klein. It has Number 6 on the top of the page, but it's the third page on the document.Mr. Nosenko. Oh, Number 6, History of Present Illness.Yes. Just a second.Mr. Klein. Would you glance through that and would you tell us if this is the hospital report from when Lee Harvey Oswald cut his wrist and was taken to Botkin Hospital?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 22]
TOP SECRET21Mr. Klein. Now, would you turn to the next to the last page. It has a 13 on the right hand side.Do you see that page?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr.Klein. The next to the last page.Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. And do you see where it says, two-thirds of the way to the bottom, "Psychiatric Department" underlined?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. Would you read what is said under that?Mr. Nosenko. "His mind is clear; perception is correct; no hallucination or deliriums. He answers the questions legible and logically; he has a firm desire to remain in the Soviet Union; no psychiatric symptoms were noted; the patient is not dangerous for other people; his condition permits him to stay in Psychiatric Department by an order of the Assistant to the Chief Physicians, Dr. Kornika. The patient is transferred to the Seventh Ward."Mr. Klein. Is there anything in there to indicate he is mentally unstable?Mr. Nosenko. Here I do not see.Mr. Klein. Does that report indicate that he was normal?Mr. Nosenko. Here I do not see what I have seen. But this you receive from the Soviet Government, and if you think you received the true things, what was in file, you are wrong,TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 23]
TOP SECRET22Mr. Klein.Mr. Klein. And that document, according to you, is thatnot an authentic copy?Mr. Nosenko. KGB can prepare you any document. Takethe material, or ask the doctors who are cooperating with KGBand they will prepare you any document.Mr. Klein. I -am not asking you what they can do. Areyou testifying that this document is not authentic, it is notthe document?Mr. Nosenko. This document never was in the file of theKGB.Mr. Klein. So --Mr. Nosenko. This I testify.Mr. Klein. -- it is your tetimony that the KGB sent usa phony document?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. You testified before this Committee that therewas periodic physical surveillance of Lee Harvey Oswald whichwas ordered by Moscow, to be carried out in Minsk?Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Klein. And you testified in detail about that,and you told us how the physical surveillance consisted offollowing Oswald for a month or month and a half at a time,and there were a number of people that would be involved, isthat correct?TOP SECRETHW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 24
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 24]
TOP SECRETMr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Klein. It was a big operation?Mr. Nosenko. Big operation? No, it's not a big operation.Mr. Klein. There were a number of people involved, weren't there?Mr. Nosenko. It is not a big operation. It is routine. In KGB it is a routine, nothing serious. It's not an operation even. It's surveillance, it's not an operation.Mr. Klein. And have you ever stated that the only coverage of Oswald during his stay in Minsk consisted of periodic checks at his place of employment, inquiry of neighbors and associates and review of his mail? Have you ever stated that was the only coverage of Oswald in Minsk?Mr. Nosenko. I stated before, and I stated it to you yesterday, and I state now, that the order was given, and I have seen it -- to cover him by surveillance periodical, to cover him by an agent watching in places of his living, places he is working, control over his correspondence and control of his telephone conversations.Mr. Klein. My question is, have you ever stated that the only coverage was checking at his places of employment and his neighbors and associates, and not say anything about periodic, physical surveillance?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I cannot tell you what I stated. I wasTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 25]
# TOP SECRETfor quite a big period of time, quite a few years, interrogated, by hours, and in different types of conditions, including hostile conditions.Mr. Klein. That was by the CIA?Mr. Nosenko. Where they asked questions in such form which later my answer will be interpreted in any way, however they want to interrogate us.Mr. Klein. That was by CIA?Mr. Nosenko. And I cannot tell you what I did say. I cannot remember dates. You must understand, it's hundreds of interrogations, hundreds.Mr. Klein. This period that you are telling us about, you were questioned by the CIA during that period, is that correct?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sure.Mr. Klein. Were you questioned during that period by FBI?Mr. Nosenko. I questioned by FBI in February, yes.Mr. Klein. At this time I would ask that this document be marked for identification and shown to the witness.The Chairman. The clerk will indicate for the record the number appearing on the document.The Clerk. Exhibit JFK-F-5.(The document referred to was marked as JFK Exhibit No. F-5 for# TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 26]
TOP SECRETidentification.)                                                 25Mr. Klein. These hostile interrogations you just alludedto, did they lead you to state other than the truth to theseinterrogators?Mr. Nosenko. I was answering questions which were putto me.Mr. Klein. Did you ever not tell the truth?Mr. Nosenko. No, I was telling the truth.Mr. Klein. I would direct your attention --Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. Just a moment. Before you you have aFederal Bureau of Investigation report, is that correct?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. I would direct your attention to page 29 ofthat report.Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Klein. The last paragraph, beginning with, "Nosenkostated" -- it's underlined. Would you please read thatparagraph to us?Mr. Nosenko. "Nosenko stated that in view of instructionfrom the KGB Moscow, no active interest could be taken inOswald in Minsk without obtaining prior approval from KGBin Moscow. According to Nosenko, no such approval was everrequested or granted, and based on his experience, he opinedthat the only coverage of Oswald during this stay in MinskTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 27]
TOP SECRETconsisted of periodic checks of his places of employment, inquiries of neighbors and associates, and review of his mail."Mr. Klein. Did you make that statement?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. What do you find here wrong?Mr. Klein. Does that statement say anything about physical surveillance?Mr. Nosenko. No, it didn't.Mr. Klein. Did you forget to tell them about the physical surveillance?Mr. Nosenko. Maybe I forget; maybe they didn't put;I do not know..Mr. Klein. Do you recall speaking to agents Poptanich and Gheesling on March 3rd and 4th, 1964?Mr. Nosenko. I cannot tell you. I do remember the date, no. I remember I was speaking with agents from FBI.Mr. Klein. When you spoke to them, did you recall that they spoke to you at that time, March 3rd and 4th, about Lee Harvey Oswald?Mr. Nosenko. I told you, they were speaking with me about Oswald, but I cannot tell you the date whem.Mr. Klein. Was it in March 1964?.Mr. Nosenko. They were speaking with me -- February and the beginning of March of 1964.Mr. Klein. And did they tape the conversations?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, they were taping all conversations.TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 28]
TOP SECRETMr. Klein. Did the agents make notes when you were talking?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. Did they ever show you those notes?Mr. Nosenko. No..Mr. Klein. Were you aware that the statements you were making to them were going to be written down in to a report?Mr. Nosenko. Sure.Mr. Klein. Did you ever have an opportunity to see the report?..Mr. Nosenko. No. The only one which was sent to the Warren Commission, this I have seen.Mr. Klein. Were you aware that the report would be put in your file?Mr. Nosenko. Must be.Mr. Klein. Were you aware that report would be shown to a committee such as this investigating the assassination?Mr. Nosenko. I didn't know that it would be created, the Committee, because it was 1964.Mr. Klein. You didn't know that?Mr. Nosenko. No. Did you know that this Committee -- in 1964 -- will be existing in '78, '77?Mr. Klein. And were you telling them the truth when you told them that the only coverage of Oswald, and listing these things andTOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 29]
# TOP SECRET28not telling them about the physical surveillance, was that the truth you told them?Mr. Nosenko. Well, I told them that there was done the work against Oswald; it was ordered, passive type of work, it's called passive. Whenever it's ordered not to make an approachment, not to make a contact, not to make a recruitment, this is passive.Anything when enters besides whatever is done, contact, approachments, recruitment, attempt to recruit, it is immediately called active.Mr. Klein. Looking at that report, did you tell them about the physical surveillance which you told this Committee about yesterday?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not see here, but I have no doubts. I do not know. Maybe I didn't mention that this date you said, maybe. I didn't mention but I was telling them about surveillance.Mr. Klein. Didn't you tell us that you always told the truth and told everything you knew when you spoke to the FBI and the CIA?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. If they would have asked you, "Was there physical surveillance?"Mr. Nosenko. Yes, I will answer yes, it was.Mr. Klein. -- you would have answered yes?# TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 30]
# TOP SECRETMr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. You also testified before this Committee that in accord with the orders from Moscow that there was technical surveillance, and you told us in detail about how they tapped his phone and they would record it and make copies of it and gave it to a certain person.Again, drawing your attention to page 29 of that same paragraph, does that say anything about the technical surveillance that you told us about?Mr. Nosenko. No, sir.Mr. Klein. Did you forget?Mr. Nosenko. But, if you ask, even an agent of FBI, I doubt it, no. In KGB control of correspondence, control of telephone, it's not big deal. It's giving order to control a telephone can be given by Chief of Section, not speaking of Chief of Department, not speaking of Chief of Directorate, and not speaking to receive a warrant from the judge. Control of correspondence can be signed, permission to put control over correspondence can be done by the Deputy Chief of Section even.Do you understnd what I want to tell you, it is absolutely considered, KGB, nothing important.Mr. Klein. Is it a big deal to check periodically at someone's place of employment and talk to their neighbors? Is that a big deal?# TOP SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 31]
TOP SECRET30Mr. Nosenko. No.Mr. Klein. But you told them about that, didn't you?Mr. Nosenko. I tried simply to describe them what kind of, not to take active--what does it mean, passive type of coverage of the target?Mr. Klein. If they would have asked you was there any technical surveillance, then would you have told them?Mr. Nosenko. I would have said they were told, even word for word, in this document said not the technical surveil- lance. They have a certain terminology. Let's say surveil- lance, it's called to lead the measurement N/N, and to control telephone to lead the measurement M.Mr. Klein. If they would have said, "Was there any technical surveillance of Oswald?" would you have said "yes"?Mr. Nosenko. Sure.Mr. Klein. You also testified to this Committee that the KGB would have had to have known about Marina Oswald, you said, by the end of the month they would have a batch of papers?Mr. Nosenko. You told me, if she had seen him, you something metnioned, 15, 13.Mr. Klein. Because surveillance was on Oswald, they would have had to pick her up?Mr. Nosenko. I cannot tell you it was in the moment whenTOP SECRETMW 50955 DocId:32277209 Page 32
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 32]
1 he was seeing her or not. You said assume that he met her2 16 and 13, and it became known to KGB through surveillance. I3 said by the end of month that at least something will have on4 her, who is she, where she is working, where she studied, where5 she work.6 Mr. Klein. They would know that through the surveillance7 on Oswald?8 Mr. Nosenko. The fact will be known through surveillance;9 then through other outfits of KGB they will find whatever10 possible on her.11 Mr. Klein. Were you ever asked the following question12 and did you give the following answer:13 "Question: Why wouldn't she -- referring to Marina -- have14 been investigated when she first met Oswald?15 "Answer: They did not know she was a friend of Oswald16 until they applied for marraige. There was no surveillance17 on Oswald to show that he knew her."18 Were you ever asked that question and did you give that19 answer?20 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not remember my questions, and21 answers.22 Mr. Klein. I would ask that this document be marked for23 identification, please, and shown to the witness.24 The Chairman. The clerk will identify for the record25 the number appearing on the document.
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 33]
The Clerk. JFK-F-6. (The document referred to was marked as JFK Exhibit No. F-6 for identification.)Mr. Klein. Looking at that document, have you ever seen it before?Mr. Nosenko. No, sir.Mr. Klein. You have never seen that before?Mr. Nosenko. I never have seen it before.Mr. Klein. And is that a report that says on the cover, "Memorandum for the Record; Subject: Followup Report on the Oswald Case; Source: AEDONOR." Was AEDONOR your code name at one time?Mr. Nosenko. I do not know.Mr. Klein. "Date of Interview: 3 July 1964." Does it say that on the cover?Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.Mr. Klein. And turning to the very last page, page 18.--Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sirMr. Klein. Does it say, "Thomas A. Ryan"?Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Klein. "SR/CI/KGB"?Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Klein. Did you ever hear of a man named Thomas A. Ryan?
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 34]
TOP_SECRET 331 Mr. Nosenko. No, I do not know a man Thomas A. Ryan.2 Mr. Klein. Do you recall speaking to a man named3 Thomas Ryan?4 Mr. Nosenko. No, sir.5 Mr. Klein. Would you turn in this document to page 9.6 On page 9, the last question and answer, would you read thequestion for us, and read the answer?7 Mr. Nosenko. "Why wouldn't she have been investigated8 when she first met Oswald?"9 "They didn't know she was a friend of Oswald until they10 applied for marriage. There was no surveillance on Oswald11 to show that he knew her."12 Mr. Klein. Were you ever asked that question and did youever --13 Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember, sir. But if it is,14 it must be asked and I this answered.15 Mr. Klein. Was that the truth?16 Mr. Nosenko. As far as I remember, those conditions in17 which I was asked, better ask where I was in this period of18 time, what conditions I was kept, and what type of interrogations19 were going on.20 Mr. Klein. Did you tell us yesterday that you alwaystold the truth?21 Mr. Nosenko. Yes.22 Mr. Klein. -- when you spoke about Oswald?23 Mr. Nosenko. Yes.24 Mr. Klein. Was this question relating to Oswald?25 Mr. Nosenko. I was answering what I could.TOP_SECRET
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 35]
Mr. Klein. Is that the truth, that they didn't --Mr. Nosenko. It's how it is put, how it is put. You see, again, why wouldn't she have been investigated. Here must be question was in this form. The investigation, not the checkup of her, but, let's say, invitation for conversation, something of this kind, it's some kind of here misunderstanding on both parts, that would be mine and interrogator.Mr. Klein. It is an inaccurate transcript?Mr. Nosenko. I consider many, many things are inaccurate.Mr. Klein. Is that transcribed accurately?Mr. Nosenko. I do not know, sir.Mr. Klein. That answer, do you think it is transcribed accurately, that that's your answer?Mr. Nosenko. Well, I can only explain only one thing. Let's say there was KGB found out that he had an acquaintance, Marina Prusakova, They were not married. They didn't know they didn't apply for marriage. What kind of first will be investigation? Checkup in archives of KGB of Byelorussia, and on the basis whatever kind of material on her will be found. Let's say, if she was ever on trial by militia, under arrest. If militia had any material, they can expand further. They can also send checkup in the place of her one, it's in one order, to give us the picture of the character of the target, check on him in place of his work and check in place of his living,
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 36]
35in one order.But more, farther investigation, the true investigation -- this is called checkup -- will be studied and they will start when they see something, let's say, suspicious in behavior of Oswald and this his connection..In case of Marina, when they found out that they are going to marry, sure, they will be more, farther investigation, thorough invetigation; but before it will only be checkup.From thispoint of view I was answering this question.Mr. Klein. Let me make it simple.Mr. Nosenko. Right.Mr. Klein. If the question was asked exactly as it appears here, "Why wouldn't she have been investigated when she first met Oswald?" would this be your answer? Is that a correct answer as it appears here?Mr. Nosenko. Well, it appears here, but I do not remember.Sure, I answered and this was question, but, gentlemen --Mr. Klein. Was this true? This says "There was no surveillance on Oswald to show that he knew her" -- is that right or wrong?Mr. Nosenko. This is what I answered, yes. It is right.It is written here.Mr. Klein. You remember answering that?Mr. Nosenko. No.Mr. Klein. How do you know you answered that?
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 37]
361 Mr. Nosenko. You are giving me official document.2 Mr. Klein. You have no recollection of answering this?3 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not have any recollection of4 interrogations.5 Mr. Klein. If you answered that, were you telling the6 truth?7 Mr. Nosenko. I don't know. I answered. Must be. This8 is how I answered question.9 Mr. Klein. You testified to this Committee that the KGB10 decided to have Lee Harvey Oswald examined by two psychiatrists11 You told us about how it was decided, who decided it, where12 it was decided. Then they found Lee Harvey Oswald to be mentally13 unstable?14 Mr. Nosenko. Right.15 Mr. Klein. Have you ever been asked the following16 questions and given the following answers:17 "Question: Did the KGB make a psychological assessment18 of Oswald?19 "Answer: No, nothing, but at the hospital it was also said20 he was not quite normal. The hospital didn't write that he was21 mad, just that he is not normal.22 "Question: Did the hospital authorities conduct any23 psychological testing?24 "Answer: I don't think so. There was no report like this."25 Mr. Nosenko. No, I told that there was opinion of
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 38]
psychiatrists that hewas mentally unstable.Mr. Klein. Is what I read to you correct?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not know whether it is correct or wrong. I am answering you what I know.Mr. Klein. Did you ever make a statement like that?Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember statements for five years, interrogation.Mr. Klein. I would direct your attention to the Ryan Report.Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Klein. Page 7.Mr. Nosenko. Yes.Mr. Klein. Would you read for us the first and second questions and answers, please.Mr. Nosenko. "Did the KGB make psychological assessment of Oswald?""No, nothing. But at the hospital it was also said he was not quite normal. The hospital didn't write that he was mad, just that he was not normal, mentally unstable."Mr. Klein. Please keep reading.Mr. Nosenko. "Did the hospital authorities conduct any psychological testing?""I don't think so. There was no report like this."What was the Soviets' opinion of Oswald's personality, what kind of man did they think he was?"
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 39]
38-"KGB throught he was of no interest for the country orfor the KGB, that he is not normal, that he should leave the country."Mr. Klein. Did you say anything in there about two psychiatrists examining Oswald and about reading their reports which said he was mentally unstable? Did you say anything about that there?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not remember what I said to them; but I would like you to find out the conditions in which interr- gations were done, how it was done, by what procedures, when two interrogators are seated. I never knew any names -- they never announced me names -- one playing part of bad guy and other good guy, and it starting slapping then, not physically but I mean, psychologically and in conversation, turning question up- side down, however they would like, then this leave, another one will start in softer way.Mr. Klein. When did this --Mr. Nosenko. And I would not trust any of their documents in those periods of time. Up to 1967 when we started from the beginning, to work, Mr. Bruce Solie. That is the one thing.Second, my knowledge of language was very poor in '64. I didn't understand many questions, and none of them, excluding Mr. Deryabin, knew Russian language and Mr. Deryabin was asking me only questions concerning my biography and this type of ques- tion, but nonoperative questions.
[180-10131-10324.pdf — page 40]
39Mr. Klein. Do you have any recollection of being asked these questions and giving the answers that you just read to us?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I told you, and I will tell, I do not remember their questions, and I do not remember my answers; but I tried to be truthful with them. Then was period of time when I have seen that they were simply was laughing at me; I rejected to answer questions, and whenever they were asking, I would answer, "I do not remember, I do not know, I do not remember."Mr. Klein. These answers, do they say "I do not know, I do not remember" or do these give responsive answers?Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not trust this document prepared by people in those years..Mr.Klein. Is it your testimony that these might not be accurate questions and answers?Mr. Nosenko. My opinion -- I cannot tell you exactly, I say might be.Mr. Klein. You testified --Mr. Nosenko. One more thing: If we are going into this, a number of interrogations, I was under drugs, and on me was used a number of drugs, and I know that, and hallucinations and talking during night and sodium and everything, even many others, and a number of things were absolutely incoherent.Mr. Klein. This hostile interrogation that you have been referring to, when did it begin?:Mr. Nosenko. Arrested me 4th of April, 1964, started