Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[180-10110-10100.pdf — page 10]
Phillips, page 5.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEMr. Phillips said that there was a CI responsibility in the Cuban shop. "You always watch out for it, but there was no formal program." He said, however, that "I never really under-..stood what CI was." Phillips said that there were some CIA officers who made counter-intelligence their primary concern during their entire careers but that he was not one of them. He described the CI effectiveness of the Mexico City Station as "average" and its Cuban section as "less than average."Mr. Phillips stated that he was aware of the existence of the Special Affairs Staff in Washington that dealt with Cuban matters. He was also aware that the SAS had its own counter-intelligence section. He recalled meeting the Chief of that section, Hal SWENSON, on a trip to Washington. He also said that it would have been routine for Mr. Swenson to have traveled to Mexico City on "routine trips" or special cases. He said that he had probably seen Swenson in Mexico but that he did not recall any specific meetings.Mr. Phillips recalled that the Legat office of the U.S. Embassy in Mexico was large; that it had 11 to 20 officers assigned to it. He said that there was a close relationship between the Agency station and the Legat office. He said that the Legat got "drop copies" of most reports. He said that it would have been routine to advise the Legat of "interesting cases" and that an American reporting to a foreign embassy would have been such a case. He said that a local dissemination would have definately been routine and that this liaisonCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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COMMITTEE SENSITIVEPhillips, page 6relationship would have been at least partially responsiblefor reporting such a visit to Headquarters.Mr. Phillips was queried about whether, in such a case,it would have been routine for the Agency station to take anyaction other than just reporting the information that had cometo its attention. Mr. Phillips said that it could have happenedin certain circumstances, such as if the contact looked as ifhe had recruitment potential or was a serious security case.In those instances it was possible that other actions wouldbe taken. Mr. Phillips remembers one such instance specificallyand pointed out that it is related in his book, *Nightwatch*,on pp. 126-128. This is a story of an American militaryofficer who offered to spy for the Cubans and an operationmounted against him by the Agency in Mexico. In response toa direct question Mr. Phillips acknowledged that the Stationcould, and often did, take actions/in regard to Americans inother than just reportingMexico that were in contact with Soviet or Bloc Embassieswithout a specific request from another interested agency; i.e.,they often took investigative and operational action on theirown initiative. Mr. Phillips said that the reason that theStation could do this was Mr. Scott's ranking (informal) inthe agency. Mr. Phillips illustrated this point by sayingthat when Mr. Scott returned to Washington to report he didnot go to the Chief of Western Hemisphere Division but directlyto either the DCI or DDP. He pointed out that Scott had beena division chief himself prior to his assignment as Chief ofStation in Mexico.COMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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COMMITTEE SENSITIVEPhillips, page 7.Mr. Phillips was asked if the CIA shared assets and informants with the FBI in Mexico. He said that he did not know of any such cases but there was coordination and liaison with the Bureau on the surveillance operations.Mr. Phillips acknowledged that one additional area in which the Station and the FBI shared an interest was the colony of American expatriates in Mexico. He said that he was not sure of who had the responsibility for that area in the Station but that it may have been Ms. Ann Goodpasture. Mr. Phillips stated that he was not aware of any Agency liaison in Mexico City with either Army or Navy regarding counter-intelligence or counter-espionage cases. He said that he had never heard of any arguments that may have occured concerning whose responsibility it was to report Oswald's initial contact with the Soviet Embassy or about the extensiveness of the Station's reporting after the assassination.Mr. Phillips does remember Viola June COBB. "Blonde, flew an airplane, track record for hitting a lot of beds in Cuba, had a twin sister involved in aviation. That's what comes to mind." He vaguely remembers messages or reports from or about her coming out of his Cuban shop but he believes that she was run out of Washington or Miami as an asset and that someone from one of those two places would have regularly come to Mexico to run her.Mr. Phillips stated that he did not recall an officer with a hair lip or who spoke with a lisp.COMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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COMMITTEE SENSITIVEPhillips, page 8.Phillips stated that he did not know if Ms. Cobb was also an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.Phillips stated that he recalls three or four members of the Warren Commission staff coming to Mexico. He said that he may have chatted with them informally but he had no formal dealings with them. He said that they spent most of their time with Mr. Scott.Mr. Phillips said that he first heard the name of Silvia Duran about the time he arrived in Mexico, as soon as he started reading the telephone tap transcripts. "Her name appeared time and time again." He added: "We had no interest in her. She wasn't friendly with anyone." Mr. Phillips had previously mentioned, in his discussion of the Cuban shop's interest in recruiting agents, the name of Ambassador Lachuga and their interest in pitching him. Mr. Phillips was shown Slawson's memo concerning his trip to Mexico where Scott told him that the CIA had a substantial prior interest in Duran because of her affair with Lắchuga. Phillips seemed surprised and said "No one let me in on this operation." Mr. Phillips said that it is possible that the Agency pitched Duran. "At one time we pitched almost everyone at the Cuban Embassy. She must have been considered." Mr. Phillips said that it was possible that she was not pitched because the station could not identify any of her weaknesses. At this point Mr. Phillips was told about the LITAMEL/9 reports on Duran that said that all thatCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 9.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEall that would have to be done to recruit her was get a blonde, blue eyed American in bed with the little "puta." Mr. Phillips admitted that it sounded like she had at least been targeted and that the station's interest was substantial and that the weakness and means had been identified. He pointed out, however, that targeting does not necessarily mean that she had been pitched, or, even if she was pitched, that she had accepted the pitch. Mr. Phillips said that he was not aware that a pitch had been made.Phillips stated that Ms. Duran's 201 file should be "very thick". He stated that a thin 201 file prior to the assassination "would be very surprising". He said that a name trace should come up with at least a lot of 3x5 cards that predate the assassination.Mr. Phillips stated that he saw Lắchuga only three times after he left Cuba: once on an airplane from Miami--"we just nodded"--; once at the inauguration of Mexican President Diaz Ordaz; and once when he was having lunch at a fancy resturant near the American Embassy in Mexico. On the last encounter Phillips said that he knew Lắchuga was going to be there and that he had specifically gone there to talk to him. He said that Lachuga turned off all the advances he made.Phillips was asked why the Agency had sent a cable to Mexico after Ms. Duran's arrest saying "don't allow any Americans to have contact with her." (paraphrase). He said: "Don't know. I can't tell you why they did that. I can't guess why." He said that he was not aware that theCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 10.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEWarren Commission staffers who were in Mexico wanted to talkto Duran. He said that he knew Clarence BOONSTRA well, thatthe last he heard he was in North Florida, but that he hadnever discussed the assassination or Oswald with him.Mr. Phillips said that he vaguely remembered that WinScott did have a safe in his office. He guessed that Scottand his secretary would have been the only people who hadaccess to that saff. He said that Scott had had severalsecretaries over a period and that he only remembers the firstname of one of them: Dottie. He said that he had no idea ofwhat Scott kept in his safe. He said that when he was chiefof station in the Dominican Republic, Brazil and Venezuela,he kept really "very sensitive" material in his safe in hisoffice. He assumes that the same would have been true of Mr.Scott. Phillips offered the example that someone would calland say that someone at the Embassy was a prostitute, he wouldnote that for the record in keep it in the private safe. Heguessed that the material in the safe would have been materialScott generated himself. He said that memos of meetings withthe Mexican president in which sensitive topics were discussedwould have been a likely candidate for retention in Scott'ssafe. He said that he does not know what happened to Scott'ssafe after he died but that he has heard a vague story thatsomeone went out and found a lot of documents that Scott hadkept.Mr. Phillips stated that he thought that the Chief ofCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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COMMITTEE SENSITIVEPhillips, page 11.the DGI in Mexico was a man named "LUNA."Mr. Phillips was asked about the story in his book concerning the DGI officer with the penchant for antique jewelry that appears at page 133. He said that he does not remember the name of that person, but says he took some literary license because he doesn't specifically recall if the person was, in fact, a DGI officer. "Thank God my next book is fiction," he said.Phillips was asked about the following DGI officers:Orestes Guillermo Ruiz Perez--"vaguely familiar";Rogelio Rodriguez Lopez--"Yes, familiar.";Manual Vega--could have been Chief of DGI;Luisa Caldern--"familiar";Teresa Proenza--"definitely familiar";Alfredo Mirabal--"familiar";Eusebio Azcue--the consul, "to my knowledge he was not Cuban intelligence."Mr. Phillips was asked if Proenza was a CIA asset. He said "The name is familiar but I don't recall the context." He also could not remember if Luisa Calderon had been an asset..He said: "I don't really remember the true names of the agents. I never saw them or dealt with them." He stated that he could not remember whether the Agency had ever pitched Ruiz but that "there were several attempts to pitch intelligence types."Mr. Phillips was shown Carlos Blanco's report of 28 June 1963. He stated that he had probably seen it previously but does not remember it specifically. He said that the nameCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 12.COMMITTEE SENSITIVECarlos Blanco had probably been made up for the purposes of this one report. He said that he recalled the name of Luisa Calderon a bit better after reading the document. He said that she may have been the asset who worked in the Embassy for the Agency but he still could not be certain because he could not recall the true names. He said that he did not know if there would have been a "further report" and that, if there was, it would not have necessarily been sent to Headquarters unless it had been of special interest.Mr. Phillips was then shown the dispatch concerning Luisa's sister. (CIA # 3715.) He said that he does not know whether she was ever identified, contacted or used. He said that he had never heard of a "domestic exploitation section" and pointed out that the words were not capitalized.Mr. Phillips stated that he did know Mr. Barney Hidalgo. He does not recall him ever being in Mexico but said that it was possible that Mr. Hidalgo could have been there and that he would not have known about it. He said that he had on occassion worked with Mr. Hidalgo. He said that Hidalgo did not have any executive talents, but he was involved in a lot of operations. He said that Hidalgo had some problems: "I don't want to say he was crazy, but I was always uncomfortable around him." Mr. Phillips also recognized the cryptonym AMMUG/1.Mr. Phillips was shown CIA #'s 3665 and 3662 which are reports from AMMUG that the Cubans believed that Calderon had been recruited by the CIA and had, therefore, called her backCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 13.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEto Cuba. Mr. Phillips said that that did not help him recallthat much about Calderon other than to make him think thatshe was not a CIA agent "because she went back to Cuba."Mr. Phillips stated that he was not aware that after theassassination that Thomas Mann expressed a great deal of interestin the Mexico City investigation. He also said that he did notknow why Mann would have been pressing for the arrest andquestioning of Luisa Calderon. He said that, in fact, he hadnever known or heard that such was the case.Mr. Phillips was shown the transcript of the Calderoncall. (CIA 3717.) He said "I've seen this document before...when we were reviewing things after the assassination." Hewas asked what the Mexico Station had done to follow up onthat conversation. He said that he could not recall that any-thing was done other than forwarding the conversation to Head-quarters. He said that he did not know what Headquarters haddone with it. He said that he could not remember being taskedor his shop being tasked, with anything concerning this lead.He said that he did not know if this conversation was givento the WC by HQ but acknowledged that it was not shown to thestaff members who visited Mexico. He does not recall any specificfollow up regarding Calderon. He does not know why Calderonwas not arrested.The section of Carlos Blanco's report concerning TeresaProenza was pointed out to. Phillips. He said that he thoughtthe report may have been written by a person used by the stationthat thought that everyone was a communist. He said this mayCOMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 14.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEhave been LIHUFF/1. He said that the document did not help his memory that much and that "I don't know of any reason why she would be termed dangerous."Phillips was shown the LITAMEL/9 contact report regarding the firing of Teresa Proenza (CIA # 3714.). Mr. Phillips stated that he dos not know why Teresa Proenza was fired. He said that he did recognize the cryptonym AMROD. He said that it was a disinformation operation and that it may have been aimed, in part, at Teresa Proenza. He said that the person in his book that he refers to as a cultural ataache with a penchant for antique jewelry was not Teresa Proenza. He said that he remembers that the person he refers to in that story was definately a man. Phillips stuck adámantly to this contention.Phillips stated that he does not recall that the Mexico City Station ever developed any information that Oswald was in contact with anyone else at the Cuban Embassy other than Azcue and Duran. Mr. Phillips was shown the FBI report of an interview with Ms. Proenza's brother. Mr. Phillips stated that it did not ring any bells and he could not recall ever having heard of such a thing. Mr. Phillips was also informed of the FBI report from a CIA source that indicated that Oswald had had contact with Proenza. He said that he had never heard of it. Mr. Phillips then stated that some things were coming back to him. He asked if Proenza was a lesbian but he didn't recall if that was a fact or part of the disinformation campaign aimed at her.COMMITTEE SENSITIVENW 50955 DocId:32263505 Page 20
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Phillips, page 15.COMMITTEE SENSITIVE... The timing of the departures of Calderon and Proenza was pointed out to Mr. Phillips as well as the indications that they had met Oswald, had prior knowledge of the assassination, the nominal reason regarding Proenza over the Raul Roa note. He was asked if he knew if their recalls were connected and if they were connected with the assassination. He said that he did not know, maybe Calderon and Proenza had been lovers, but that may have been part of the disinformation, he just could not remember which, fact or fiction.Mr. Phillips stated that it was very possible that HQ or JMWAVE could have recruited and run/agents in Mexico without the knowledge of the Mexico Station. Phillips said: "I suppose it would have been possible for an agent in Mexico City to be run out of JMWAVE station in Miami without my knowledge, but I would have been furious if I found out about it:. He said that this may have even been "probable" in the case of a "sensitive operatio,"but he pointed out that anyone doing that took the risk of crossing Win Scott who was close to both the DCI and DDP. This lead Mr. Phillips to say that if that was the case then the DDP, at least, would probably have approved the WAVE use of an agent in Mexico. We took Mr. Phillips through the documents on Ms. Calderon again and asked him if this could have been an instance such as that we were talking about. He said that it very well could have been but that he had no knowledge that would indicate that that was the case. He said that this was the kind of thing "they might have asked Barney Hidalgo to do." Phillips agreed that
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Phillips, page 16.COMMITTEE SENSITIVECIA #3665 indicates that a pitch to Calderon was to be made by someone outside of Mexico. "If it was someone from the CIA there would be something in her 201 files... but possibly it could have been run out of a soft file." He said that her file should be substantial. He said he could not explain why the Calderon conversation would not have been in her 201 while it was in Oswald's.Mr. Phillips was informed of the testing of the impulse camera beginning on September 27, 1963. He stated that he had "no recollection" of the disposition of the photographs obtained during that testing.Mr. Phillips stated that if another cable (a third) was sent to HQ regarding Oswald prior to the assassination that he did not know about it.Mr. Phillips was asked if there was a way for HQ and a Station to communicate without the commo becoming part of the permanent record. He stated that there was at least one way that he knew of in addition to telephone and personal courier. He said that it was technically possible to set up a "telcom" system by persuading the cable operators to set it up on a "back channel". He stated that such a system would work on a question and answer sheme. He said "It has been done on occassion but I don't recall it ever having been done in Mexico." Mr. Phillips also stated that he did not believe that there had been any telephone communications concerning the assassination. Refuting documents were not shown.COMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 17.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEMr. Phillips acknowledged that the FBI would manipulate their files on employees of the CIA at the Agency's behest. He also said that he would not be surprised if other catagories of files could be manipulated, including internal CIA files. Mr. Phillips was asked what factors would make him suspicious of a file. He said that missing references, pages that had half of them torn off, things like that would arouse his suspicion. He also listed a missing report from a sequentially numbered series of reports as one thing that would arouse his suspicion. In response to a direct question, Mr. Phillips said that, if what we had told him about Ms. Duran's file was true, then wercould be fairly certain that her file had been "manipulated."Mr. Phillips was asked about James Angleton. He said: "He didn't tell me anything about his operations. He kept promising to tell me, but he never did." He said that Angleton held his operation very tightly to his vest. Phillips said it is possible that J.C. King mignt have had some operations outside of the JMARC structure but that they could not have been funded without someone knowing about them. A division chief does have access to operational and developmental funds but, Phillips said, he has never heard of a discretionary fund available to Division Chiefs. He said that the developmental fund usually had a lot of money in it but that it eventually had to be accounted for. "I can't remember having such a fund that I didn't account for through the DDP."COMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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COMMITTEE SENSITIVEPhillips, page 18.Mr. Phillips said that he did not participate, nor was he aware of, in any campaign after the assassination to spread misinformation about the death of Kennedy. He could not explain why the misinformation that came from the Cuban groups and individuals that tended to point to Castro involvement were predominantly from assets that he had handled personally as opposed to ones that had been ran out of the Miami station. He said that he agreed that it was strange that the one peice of evidence that tended to show at least DGI foreknowledge was not pursued by his shop while disinformation from his former assets occupied the attentions of investigators in that area. Mr. Phillips stated that he did not kow of any hard evidence that existed in 1963 that pointed to Castro's involvement.Mr. Phillips was asked about his operations in Havana, specifically the names of the operations he was involved in, when he worked there as a covert operative from 1958 to 1961. He said he went to Cuba in the summer of 1958 after he had retired from the Agency. He said the Agency heard he was setting up his own public relations business there and asked him to continue working for them, not on a staff status but on a contract basis. Most of his work, he said, involved propaganda operations for Latin American coundtries and not Cuba. He did do what he termed "ad hoc" stuff as it came along and he did develop propaganda news stories and editorial material that was sent out to the provincial newspapers. He also specifically recalled attending a meeting of a group of businessmen whoNW 50955 DocId: 32263505 Page 24COMMITTEE SENSITIVE
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Phillips, page 19.COMMITTEE SENSITIVEbegan talking about developing anti-Castro activity, but that group never got off the ground because there was an informant in the group and most of the participants were shortly afterwards arrested.When asked about his relationsip with Julio Lobo, he became a bit upset and said he thought he had covered that adequately in his deposition. He says as far as he can recall he met Lobo only one time, perhaps it was even in Madrid and not Havana, he doesn't recall, and he had no substantial dealings with him. He wanted to know if Veciana's story about Bishop is still being considered and if any decision about his being Bishop had been conclusively arrived at. He said he doesn't like living under the fear and tension of possibly being called before the television cameras and having Veciana suddenly stand up and point his finger at him and say that he is Bishop and that he saw him with Oswald. Phillips was told by the interviewers that they had no authority to disclose anything of substance about our investigation to him. He asked that the interviewers seek permission to let him know what was going on. He was told that his request would be brought to high-level attention but that a response of any kind at all could not be assured.Phillips stated that he did not know Paul Bethel very well. but it was not Bethel who introduced him to Lopez-Fresquet. He said that that introduction was made by Bethel's boss, Dick Cushing.Phillips said that he had no additional recollections on Jack Cogswell other than he remembered that he was an