Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
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purposes other than recruitment?A. Well --Q. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of thesefiles on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possibleinternal security problem?A. No. No. They didn't keep those types of files. Wewould simply task them with through your sources what do youhave on so and so. They would not be told the reason why wewanted the information on anybody.Q. Well, I guess with several million fiels or severalmillion cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult tomake generalizations about the kind of information that is inthose files?A. Well, that is right.Q. So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to askyou this. I trust that there is the possibility that some ofthese files do contain what you in the trade refer to as deroga-tory information?.A. I would assume so.Q. And that so much of them may -- some of the subjectsof those files may now be American citizens?A. Right.Q. And finally I take it that no effort has been made tostudy that particular situation?A. Well, we did make an effort to do it at one time.
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SECRET1 You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,2 whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their3 names turn up on manifests and this type of thing. Well, these4 are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards5 were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them6 at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with7 what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-8 tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had9 become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So --10 Q. Excuse me, off the record.11 (Off the record discussion)12 MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.13 BY MR. MANFREDI:14 Q. I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind15 where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are16 presently here in Washington?17 A. The cards and what is left of the files.18 Q. That is the soft cover files?19 A. Yes.20 Q. And --21 A. I assume they are either here or down at the22 Records Center.23 Q. And where is the computer system?24 A. You mean our machine system? We have --25 Q. The machine here that you tried to match up with theSECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
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# SECKEI1 information on the cards?2 A Right down on the third floor.3 Ω. That is not the hydro system?4 A. Oh, no, no.5 This is a separate --6 A. This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division7 uses this particular system.8 Ω. What kind of records -- strike that.9 The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't they?10 A. No.11 Ω T thought they were going out in June.12 A. Well, okay. They are on the books until June.13 Ω. I see.14 A. But they have all been let go. They were let go --15 they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to16 go find a job.17 Ω. Do they have any facilities, physical facilities, inMiami at this time?18 Λ. no.19 Ω So there are no records in Miami?20 A. No. No. We brought all those records back here.21 Q. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities22 in the Miami community?23 A. No. No.24 Ω Any affiliation with law enforcement groups?25SECRET![Photocopy from Gerald Ford Library]
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14# SECRET1 A. Not to my knowledge.2 Q What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that3 was not doing debriefings?4 A. Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would5 send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemisphere6 to train some of the local services in those countries. They7 served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in8 listening posts where we had audio --9 Q Foreign listening posts?10 A. Oh, yes, foreign.11 Q Any domestic listening posts?12 A. No, no.13 Q Any domestic surveillances conducted by these people?14 A. I would assume -- this I cannot answer because I reall don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but15 to my knowledge there wasn't any domestic surveillance16 conducted by them.17 Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,18 I don't know where it could be.19 Q What intelligence gathering activities did they20 conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?21 A. One of the big problems we had was within that Cuban22 community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-23 Castro groups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard24 and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government25# SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
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SECRET1 agencies in Miami plus the State government enforcement agencies2 up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -- the3 Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess4 about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they5 started to tighten up.6 I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing7 alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when8 there was going to be a raid against Cuba by one of these9 militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked10 up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau,11 this type of thing.12 Q. These people were arrested?13 A. Oh, yes.14 Q. Prosecuted?15 A. Not really.16 Q. Any of them American citizens?17 A. Not to my knowledge.18 Q. This would be Alpha 66 type groups?19 A. I don't know whether this guy -- well, you know, they20 are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don't21 know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on22 so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.23 He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever24 served any time or not I don't know. I know he was convicted25 but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. SoSECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
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SECRET1 I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever wentto jaul or not.2 Ω Other than identifying operations by militant anti-3 Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS4 engage in?5 A. Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence --6 I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence.interest7 at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.8 Ω. Cubans were?9 A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well10 on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and11 young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't12 -- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to13 identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.14 Ω. Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau?15 A. With the Bureau, yes.16 Ω Because of their manpower limitations you folks were17 in a better position to do it?18 A. Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big19 factor.20 Ω And this was conducted through the AMOTS?21 A. Yes.22 Q How substantial was the counterintelligence operation23 in the community?24 A. Well, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I25 SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
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SECRET1 would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but they did2 come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the3 Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens4 to it because, you know, you just -- unless you personally know5 the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, you might as6 well forget it. You have got too many other things to do.7 Ω What other positive intelligence gathering activities8 were they engaging in?9 A. Well, as I told you, one part of them were engaged in electronic intercept.10 Ω Where was that done?11 A. Down in Florda, down, in Homestead.12 Ω This is Southeast of Homestead?13 A. Yes.14 Ω. What ere they intercepting?15 A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the16 commo. for the infiltration.17 As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made18 available to intercept Cuban communications. NSA tasks them with19 the frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications20 nets they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another21 important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,22 sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior23 network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coverage24 is dictated by NSA.25 SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
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SECRETNow, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin requirements on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently because the common interests, -- we have a common interest in what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particular operation going that they wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans were doing, then we would task our people with that.For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was. But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when it came back on the air. And this is the type of thing. As a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200 Cuban troops.MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.(Off the record discussion)MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.BY MR. MANFREDI:Q. Were the communications they were intercepting exclusively foreign communications?A. Exclusively foreign communications.Q. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus of which was the United States?A. No.Q. These were basically Cuban Government communications?SECRETPhotocopy from Gerald Ford Library
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SECREIA. Right.Ω. On the Island?A. Right.Ω. Or between the Island and other locations?A. Yes.Q But not between the Island and the United States?A. No. Let's go off the record on that.(Off the record discussion)BY MR. MANFREDI:Ω To your knowledge were the AMOT engaging in the intercept of any communications, either that facility or else-where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?A. No.Ω. Of other communications?A. No.Ω. Is that their only intercept facility?A. (Nods affirmative)Ω. Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike that. Do you have any knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances, breakins or activities of that type other than what we have discussed --A. No sir.-- that were conducted by the AMOTS?A. No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.(Off the record discussion)SECRET![photocopy from Gerald Ford Library]
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SECRETBY MR. MANFREDI:Q. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS has been prepared by one of your members.A. That is right.Q. What is his name?A. I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last name. The poor guy is dead now anyway. Well, I will just have to get that for you.Q. What is the title of the study?A. The title of the study -- it is part of the historical series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The AMOT Organization."Q. What is the historical series of the Miami Station?A. It was done when Paul Hennessey was down there. What we try to do as we go along, from year to year, is set aside what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things the station might do or that might occur in the station personnel-wise, this type of thing, and then these things are written.Q. I see.A. At intervening periods of time.Q. When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?A. I think it was preAared in 1967 or '68.Q. It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?A. Yes.Q. And purports to be a fairly complete history of theSECRETPhotocopy from Gerald Ford Library
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SECRET1 activities of the AMOTS?2 A. It starts back in 1959 when we first started using this gent..3 Q First started using what?4 A. First started using, I forget what his name was.5 Q I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi-ties?6 A. Yes.7 Q And you have a copy of that in your custody?8 A. Yes.9 Q I would like to see that document. And we will try and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office.10 A. Okay.11 Q. Excuse me just for a minute.12 (Off the record. discussion)13 MR. MANFREDI: On the record.14 BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if you would -- let me ask you this. There have been some allegations in the press that prominent newsmen in the Miami area have in the past been agents of the CIA.15 Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join us because some of your involvement in Cuban activities in the Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn the examination over to him for whatever time he needs.SECRETPhotocopy from Gerald Ford Library
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MR. OLSEN: Thank you, George.BY MR. OLSEN:Q. Can you begin, since I have not been in on the begin-ning of the interview here, can you start off, Mr. Sturbitts, by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere withing this country on behalf of the Agency?A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in a variety of intelligence collection and operations.Q. Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?A. Desmond Fitzgerald.Q. And who was his immediate superior?A. Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was Dick Helms. He was the DEP.Q. Deputy Director for Plans?A. Deptuty Director for Plans.Q. What period of time are we talking about now?A. We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.(Off the record discussion)BY MR. OLSEN:Q. So you were not involved in this Special Activities Group during the 1959 to '61 period?A. No.
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Q. Or the period leading up to the Bay of Pigs?A. No.Q. And you were not involved in this program at all during the same time that E. Howard Hunt was involved in it?A. No.Q. Do you know what the position was Mr. Hunt occupied in connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the period of 1959 to '61?A. To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert Action Staff dealing in propaganda.Q. Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in this country?A. No. Cuban people abroad.Q. And what-was his connection with the planning for the Bay of Pigs?A. I would have to review the record to really answer that. I don't know.Q. Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami area?A. He commuted quite a bit.Q. Between Washington and --A. Washington and Miami.Q. -- and Miami. During the period of 1960 and early '61?A. Right.Q. Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his
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SECRET1 published materials that he was the person who was in charge of2 organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which3 would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall4 where that was?5 A. That could be quite true.6 Q. Have you reviewed, Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire7 files relating in any way to the Cuban operations and particu-8 larly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts9 between the Agency and Frank Sturgis?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Or Frank Fiorini?12 A. There is no relationship.13 Q. Is it your testimony that the records and files of14 the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any15 nature with Frank Sturgis?16 A. To my knowledge that is true.17 Q. I take it from that that you are emphatic in your18 testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency?19 A. Extremely emphatic.20 Q. And you are also equally emphatic to the effect that21 he was never a contract agent of the Agency?22 A. Exactly.23 Q. Do you know whether he ever served in the capacity24 of being an informer or informant to the Agency?25 A. It is possible that he could have been a source.SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
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You mean a source of --A. Source of information of another agent. Another agency agent.Q. Do the files of the Agency reflect any matter?A. To my knowledge I don't recall anything like that but it is entirely possible that that could have happened without being a matter of record.Q. Do the files of the Agency reveal any instance whatever in which Frank Sturgis was ever asked to undertake any kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?A. To my knowledge, nothing.Q. Do the files of the Agency reveal any evidence whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or indirectly by the Agency?A. To my knowledge, no.Q. Now, when you say "to my knowledge, no", in answer to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that you are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files?A. On Frank Sturgis, yes.Q. Okay. During the period of time that you were with the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all, can you tell us when that began in 1963?A. When the Special Activities Group --Q. No. When your contact with the Special Activities
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1 Group began?2 A. It began -- well, it began around June of '63.3 Q. Now, with particular reference to the last half of 1963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been involved, were there a great many Cubans in the southern United States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being sponsored by the Agency?8 A. Wellm vou mean Agency sponsored fronts?9 Q. Yes.10 A. The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effort to have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro factions. Obviously the leaders of the fronts knew that the CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agency or the U.S. Government.16 Q But when you say "supposedly," does the fact appear to be otherwise?17 A. WEll, based on my experience with the Cubans and this type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that it wouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface itself.21 Q Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr. Sturbitts, that a great many Cubans considered themselves to be involved in the CIA organizations?24 A Yes.
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Q. And again with particular reference to the Miamiarea?A. Yes.Q. Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere in the United States? I am asking now particularly with reference to New Orleans.A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was sort of a sideshow to Miami.Q. But the same is -- it is possible that some of the same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?A. I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had the same functions. I know that some funding arrangement for subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through New Orleans.Q. Well, can you be more specific about what you mean by that?A. Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of income for them to continue what they were doing. A great number -- well, not a great number, but a number of select people were -- well, they were selected and then they were talked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or whatever you might have of some of these organizations in order
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to get the funding through to the organizations.These people were normally prominent people and --Q. And did they get funded by the Agency, then, through the maeium of prominent and well-to-do people?A. These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friend of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity and say, you know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this type of thing. Could your organization give us any money, and the guy on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend you $25,000 or something like that, or donate $25,000. This is the way the funding went into the fronts.Q. And was some of that funding arranged through people in New Orleans?A. I would think so. I believe so.Q. Were any of the people in New Orleans through whom that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison?A. Not to my knowledge.Q. How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with the Agency in any manner at all in providing funds or assistance to Cubans or Cuban groups?A. I couldn't say. I am just not familiar with -- we had a great many people that did this.Q. How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a funding source?
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1 A. This I do not know either.2 Q. Pardon?3 A. This I don't know.4 BY MR. MANFREDI:5 Q. Where would that information be available?6 A. Well, we have a guy that used to work with me who was7 down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.8 Q. Is he in the building?9 A. Yes.10 Q. What is his name?11 A. Bill Kent.12 Q. Bill Kent'13 A. Yes.14 BY MR. OLSEN:15 Q. Who is Bill Kent with now? Which department?16 A. He is still with the DDO.17 BY MR. MANFREDI:18 Q. Western Hemisphere Division?19 A. No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I think Career Management Group Staff.20 Q. Is he officed near you?21 A. No. He is down in the basement.23 BY MR. OLSEN:24 Q. Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were25 that were used to provide funds to the --
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A. Oh, yes.Q. -- to the Cuban movements?A. Yes.Q. Do you know whehter -- do you know the identity of any of them in New Orleans?A. No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took llace in New Orleans.Q. I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary for providing funds to the Cuban fronts?A. The files that I have don't reflect it.Q. I think we covered this already just a few minutes ago but let me make sure that we have got it on the record.I understood you to say that it was your impression in 1963 that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban people in the southern United States, talked about and believed that they were involved in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true?A. That is right.Q. Was it also your understanding and your impression that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in the southern United States about plans or prospects for the assassination of Fidel Castro?A. I would say no. I don't think there was -- you have got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost their homeland, their possessions, they lost everything and they blamed it all on one man.
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Q. That is Fiedl Castro?A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do anything they could to get rid of him.Q. Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among these Cubans?A. I would say among the Cuban exiles there probably was a lot of talk about that.Q. Did you participate yourself in the overhearing of such conversations?A. No.Q. Was this a matter of something that was reported to you?A. Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the Station and from my visits down there and that type of thing that this subject always came up. What were they going to do with Fidel? How are they going to get rid of him and this type of thing. I don't mean the Agency people. This is what the Cuban exile community was discussing.Q. Yes. Do you know what Howard Hunt was doing for the Agency in 1963?A. Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in '63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the DDP.Q. This is your best recollection --