Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 76]
SECRETNow, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin requirements on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequentlybecause the common interests, -- we have a common interest inwhat NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particularoperation going that they wanted to cover exactly what the Cubanswere doing, then we would task our people with that.For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms intoAfrica and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and thenthere was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was.But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located theboat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, whenitcame back on the air. And this is the type of thing. Asa matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200Cuban troops.MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.(Off the record discussion)MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.BY MR. MANFREDI:Q. Were the communications they were interceptingexclusively foreign communications?A. Exclusively foreign communications.Q. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminusof which was the United States?A. No.Q. These were basically Cuban Government communications?SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 77]
SECRETA. Right.Ω. On the Island?A. Right.Ω. Or between the Island and other locations?A. Yes.Ω But not between the Island and the United States?A. No. Let's go off the record on that.(Off the record discussion)BY MR. MANFREDI:Ω. To your knowledge were the AMOTS engaging in the intercept of any communications, either that facility or else-where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?A. No.Ω. Of other communications?A. No.Ω. Is that their only intercept facility?A. (Nods affirmative)Ω. Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike that. Do you have any knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances, breakins or activities of that type other than what we have discussed --A. No sir.-- that were conducted by the AMOTS?A. No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.(Off the record discussion)SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 78]
SECRETBY MR. MANFREDI:Q. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTShas been prepared by one of your members.A. That is right.Q. What is his name?A. I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the lastname. The poor guy is dead now anyway. Well, I will just haveto get that for you.Q. What is the title of the study?A. The title of the study -- it is part of the historicalseries of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "TheAMOT Organization."Q. What is the historical series of the Miami Station?A. It was done when Paul Hennessey was down there. Whatwe try to do as we go along, from year to year, is set asidewhat is considered to be some of the more siginificant thingsthe station might do or that might occur in the station personnel-wise, this type of thing, and then these things are written.Q. I see.A. At intervening periods of time.Q. When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?A. I think it was preaAred in 1967 or '68.Q. It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?A. Yes.Q. And purports to be a fairly complete history of theSECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford Library
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 79]
SECRET1 activities of the AMOTS?2 A. It starts back in 1959 when we first started using this gent..3 Q. First started using what?4 A. First started using, I forget what his name was.5 Q. I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi- ties?6 A. Yes.7 Q. And you have a copy of that in your custody?8 A. Yes.9 Q. I would like to see that document. And we will try and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office.10 A. Okay.11 Q. Excuse me just for a minute.12 (Off the record. discussion)13 MR. MANFREDI: On the record.14 BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if you would -- let me ask you this. There have been some allegations in the press that prominent newsmen in the Miami area have in the past been agents of the CIA.15 Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join us because some of your involvement in Cuban activities in the Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn the examination over to him for whatever time he needs.SECRET
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 80]
MR. OLSEN: Thank you, George.BY MR. OLSEN:Q. Can you begin, since I have not been in on the begin- ning of the interview here, can you start off, Mr. Sturbitts, by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere withing this country on behalf of the Agency?A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in a variety of intelligence collection and operations.Q. Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?A. Desmond Fitzgerald.Q. And who was his immediate superior?A. Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was Dick Helms. He was the DEP.Q. Deputy Director for Plans?A. Deptuty Director for Plans.Q. What period of time are we talking about now?A. We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.(Off the record discussion)BY MR. OLSEN:Q. So you were not involved in this Special Activities Group during the 1959 to '61 period?A. No.
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Q. Or the period leading up to the Bay of Pigs?A. No.Q. And you were not involved in this program at all during the same time that E. Howard Hunt was involved in it?A. No.Q. Do you know what the position was Mr. Hunt occupied in connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the period of 1959 to '61?A. To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert Action Staff dealing in propaganda.Q. Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in this country?A. No. Cuban people abroad.Q. And what was his connection with the planning for the Bay of Pigs?A. I would have to review the record to really answer that. I don't know.Q. Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami area?A. He commuted quite a bit.Q. Between Washington and --A. Washington and Miami.Q. -- and Miami. During the period of 1960 and early '61?A. Right.Q. Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in hisSECRETPhotocopy from Gerald Ford Library
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 82]
published materials that he was the person who was in charge of organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall where that was?A. That could be quite true.Q. Have you reviewed, Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire files relating in any way to the Cuban operations and particularly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts between the Agency and Frank Sturgis?A. Yes.Q. Or Frank Fiorini?A. There is no relationship.Q. Is it your testimony that the records and files of the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any nature with Frank Sturgis?A. To my knowledge that is true.Q. I take it from that that you are emphatic in your testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency?A. Extremely emphatic.Q. And you are also equally emphatic to the effect that he was never a contract agent of the Agency?A. Exactly.Q. Do you know whether he ever served in the capacity of being an informer or informant to the Agency?A. It is possible that he could have been a source.
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 83]
Q. You mean a source of --A. Source of information of another agent. Another agency agent.Q. Do the files of the Agency reflect any matter?A. To my knowledge I don't recall anything like that but it is entirely possible that that could have happened without being a matter of record.Q. Do the files of the Agency reveal any instance whatever in which Frank Sturgis was ever asked to undertake any kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?A. To my knowledge, nothing.Q. Do the files of the Agency reveal any evidence whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or indirectly by the Agency?A. To my knowledge, no.Q. Now, when you say "to my knowledge, no", in answer to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that you are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files?A. On Frank Sturgis, yes.Q. Okay. During the period of time that you were with the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all, can you tell us when that began in 1963?A. When the Special Activities Group --Q. No. When your contact with the Special Activities
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Group began?A. It began -- well, it began around June of '63.Q. Now, with particular reference to the last half of 1963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been involved, were there a great many Cubans in the southern United States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being sponsored by the Agency?A Wellm you mean Agency sponsored fronts?Q. Yes.A. The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effort to have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro factions. Obviously the leaders of the fronts knew that the CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agency or the U.S. Government.Q But when you say "supposedly," does the fact appear to be otherwise?A WEll, based on my experience with the Cubans and this type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that it wouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface itself.Q Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr. Sturbitts, that a great many Cubans considered themselves to be involved in the CIA organizations?A Yes.
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 85]
Q. And again with particular reference to the Miami area?A. Yes.Q. Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere in the United States? I am asking now particularly with reference to New Orleans.A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was sort of a sideshow to Miami.Q. But the same is -- it is possible that some of the same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?A. I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had the same functions. I know that some funding arrangement for subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through New Orleans.Q. Well, can you be more specific about what you mean by that?A. Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of income for them to continue what they were doing. A great number -- well, not a great number, but a number of select people were -- well, they were selected and then they were talked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or whatever you might have of some of these organizations in order
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 86]
to get the funding through to the organizations.These people were normally prominent people and --Q. And did they get funded by the Agency, then, through the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do people?A. These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friend of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity and say, you know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this type of thing. Could your organization give us any money, and the guy on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend you $25,000 or something like that, or donate $25,000. This is the way the funding went into the fronts.Q. And was some of that funding arranged through people in New Orleans?A. I would think so. I believe so.Q. Were any of the people in New Orleans through whom that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison?A. Not to my knowledge.Q. How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with the Agency in any manner at all in providing funds or assistance to Cubans or Cuban groups?A. I couldn't say. I am just not familiar with -- we hadi a great many people that did this.Q. How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a funding source?
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 87]
A. This I do not know either.Q. Pardon?A. This I don't know.BY MR. MANFREDI:Q. Where would that information be available?A. Well, we have a guy that used to work with me who was down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.Q. Is he in the building?A. Yes.Q. What is his name?A. Bill Kent.Q. Bill Kent'A. Yes.BY MR. OLSEN:Q. Who is Bill Kent with now? Which department?A. He is still with the DDO.BY MR. MANFREDI:Q. Western Hemisphere Division?A. No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I think Career Management Group Staff.Q. Is he officed near you?A. No. He is down in the basement.BY MR. OLSEN:Q. Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were that were used to provide funds to the --
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 88]
A. Oh, yes.Q. -- to the Cuban movements?A. Yes.Q. Do you know whehter -- do you know the identity of any of them in New Orleans?A. No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took llace in New Orleans.Q. I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary for providing funds to the Cuban fronts?A. The files that I have don't reflect it.Q. I think we covered this already just a few minutes ago but let me make sure that we have got it on the record.I understood you to say that it was your impression in 1963 that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban people in the southern United States, talked about and believed that they were involved in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true?A. That is right.Q. Was it also your understanding and your impression that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in the southern United States about plans or prospects for the assassination of Fidel Castro?A. I would say no. I don't think there was -- you have got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost their homeland, their possessions, they lost everything and they blamed it all on one man.
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 89]
Q. That is Fiedl Castrc?A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do anything they could to get rid of him.Q. Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among these Cubans?A. I would say among the Cuban exiles there probably was a lot of talk about that.Q. Did you participate yourself in the overhearing of such conversations?A. No.Q. Was this a matter of something that was reported to you?A. Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the Station and from my visits down there and that type of thing that this subject always came up. What were they going to do with Fidel? How are they going to get rid of him and this type of thing. I don't mean the Agency people. This is what the Cuban exile community was discussing.Q. Yes. Do you know what Howard Hunt was doing for the Agency in 1963?A. Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in '63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the DDP.Q. This is your best recollection --
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 90]
1 A. Yes.2 Q. -- at the moment. Is it possible that he was with3 Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries4 engaged --5 A. I guess you are right, yes. I believe he was there.6 Q. Did you personally know Howard Hunt?7 A. No.8 Q. Never met him?9 A. I met him. That is all. I can't say I know him.10 Q. You would not have known anything about his where-11 abouts on any particular day, then. Is that true?12 A. Can we go off the record?13 (Off the record discussion.)14 THE WITNESS: Let's go back on the record.15 BY MR. OLSEN:16 Q. I would like to have it on the record.17 A. Do you have a particular day?18 Q. No. I am just asking you if your acquanitance with19 Hunt was such that you would have known of his whereabouts on20 any particular day.21 A. No.22 Q. Was it very infrequently that you ever saw him?23 A. Oh, I would see him in the halls, this type of thing,24 but -- bump into him perhaps downtown on the street.25 Q. But you would have no occasion for knowing from one![photocopy from Gerald Ford Library]
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 91]
day to the next where he was?A. No.Q. Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf of the Agency as to where he was on November 22, 1963?A. Yes.Q. And when did you conduct that inquiry?A. I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent one was I guess -- I am just trying to think. Well, it wasn't too long ago because we did have an inquiry and we obtained the time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day.Q. Was this just fairly recently?A. Yes.Q. I understood from what files I have seen, Mr. Sturbitts, that the only records that were available from the Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave during the two-week pay period ending the 23rd of November but that the records were not available as to how much sick leave or annual leave had been taken on any particular day.A. Well --.Q. Am I mistaken?A. As I recall, he was in a duty status one day and a sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day.I would have to check that with my Budget and Fiscal Officer.He is the chap that got that for me..
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 92]
Phone (Area 202) 544-60001 Q. Can you check that for us?2 A. Sure.3 Q. And give us the results of that?4 A. Yes.5 Q. Because this is much more detailed information than6 I have been previouly aware is available in the files of the7 Agency.8 A. All right. I will do that.9 BY MR. MANFREDI:10 Q. Do you want to make a note of that?11 A. Let me have a piece of paper.12 Q. You might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which13 is 351-5106.14 THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?15 BY MR. MANFREDI:16 Q. That is the day.17 A. 1963.18 Q. In response to whose inquiry was that investigation made?19 A I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether --22 I will just have to check that. I don't know who it was.23 Q. And the date? Do you have any idea when you made the inquiry?24 A. No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefully.NW 50955 DocId: 32275518 Page 93SECRETPhotocopy from Gerald Ford Library
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## SECRET1 Q. You said there was a previous inquiry?2 A. Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of3 European Division.4 Q. When was that inquiry received?5 A. That was about a year ago, I guess.6 BY MR. OLSEN:7 Q. About the first time these photographs began to be circulated?8 A. Yes.9 Q. About the bums in Dallas?10 A. Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inquiry came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was Chief of Station, London, for a long time and he apparently made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media.11 Q. This is something you are relating to Der Sterm Magazine?12 A. That is right.13 Q. And did I understand you to say that in checking with the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?14 A. Well, I will have to check that. That is the way I understood it but I did get this through our Budget people who have the contact with the Office of Finance.15 Q. And that he was on annual leave the day before?## SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford LibraryNW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 94
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A. No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick leave, and then on duty status the following day.BY MR. MANFREDI:Q. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's previous pattern with respect to sick days had been?A. (Nods in negative)BY MR. OLSEN:Q. November 22, 1963, was a Friday. When you say that records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --A. It was a Friday. Then I was mistaken.Q. Does that mean he was on duty the following Monday or on the next day, Saturday?A. No. On the following Monday. I didn't realize the 22nd was a Friday.Q. Will you check that thing for us and give us a brief memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting documents you can find?A. Okay.Q. As promptly as possible on this question.I think that covers the subject matter.MR. MANFREDI: I can give you another moment if you want. Can you think of anything else?MR. OLSEN: I think that is all.MR. MANFREDI: Okay. Off the record.(Off the record discussion)
[178-10002-10215.pdf — page 95]
BY MR. MANFREDI:Ω I am sorry for the interruption but over the long I think probably I saved you some time.We are talking about newspaper editors when we were interrupted -- or when I invited the interruption. I guess I ought to be fair.Is it not a fact that the Agency had some relationship with some prominent newspaper officials in the Miami area?A. Yes.Ω And what was the nature of that relationship?A. Traditionally the Chief of Station maintained the relationship with officials of the Miami Herald, particularly Latin American editor, as well as relationships with staff members of it, I think it is the Miami News and stringers" for the other newspapers and periodicals stationed in Miami.Ω What was the purpose of those relationships?A. I really couldn't say what the prupose of the relationship was. I mean, the same reason that we establish a relationship with the press in this town. There were certain things that might come to the attention of the press involving true names and incidents that we felt should perhaps not be surfaced at any particular time.Ω Do you have any knowledge of use of the press in Miami for propaganda purposes?A. No. No.SECRETPhotocopy from Gerald Ford Library
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folomslPhone (Area 202) 544-600095Q Would you know if that were the case?A No. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these people as well as they were assigint us.Q What assistance would you render for members of the press in Miami?A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations would give him background briefings and this type of thing on the developments within a given country.Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers?A Predominantly, I would say probably the Miami Herald received probably a little more attention than the other papers, principally because it was a large paper and their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout the Hemisphere.Q Was he also used as a source?A No.Q Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive similar briefings?A Yes.Q We talked with Mr.Olsen for a short period of time about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these organizations?SECRETPhotocopy fromGerald Ford LibraryWARD & PAUL410 Fast Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003NW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 97