Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 6]
TOP SECRET41 they are to perform some service. Up to that time they are2 still maybe prospects, where they may not have been recruited.3 The Chairman. Which do you think the Committee should4 adopt of these two options?5 Mr. Aaron. Actually, one could use both of these. I think6 the point is that the danger to the student, if there is any,7 comes when he leaves the United States, either to return to8 his own country or perhaps someplace else, but the commitment9 or involvement which ought to be witting really needs to come10 when he starts being paid, when he becomes in fact, or has11 a real relationship with the Agency. You could really establish12 both standards, because it might well be that he could leave13 the country but not have yet been paid, and not really have14 a relationship that was anything more than kind of an asso-15 ciation or an option, something of that character.16 The Chairman. Well, what is the will of the Committee17 as to these two options?18 Senator Huddleston. Well, this represents a distillation19 of what we have been proposing as Senator Mondale develops20 for us, I believe, and I would move that we adopt this report,21 and use both of these, an either/or.22 The Chairman. Whichever comes first, huh, either before23 he is given payment of any kind or leaves the United States,24 whichever may occur first.25 Would that be satisfactory to the Committee?TOP SECRETWARD & PAUL
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 7]
TOP SECRET5All right. Without objection, then, that will be thedecision of the Committee.What else do you have?Mr. Aaron. We have two other recommendations.Senator Hart of Colorado. Mr. Chairman, could I be recordedin opposition to this?The Chairman. Yes, Senator Hart of Colorado is recordedas in opposition.Mr. Madigan. Senator, there is a proxy in opposition aswell.The Chairman. Senator Baker wants to be recorded inopposition as well.Senator Mathias. I would, I think Senator Goldwater hada very strong proxy that I read into the record on this subjectat the last meeting.Mr. Kirbow. Against restricting any use of academics.Senator Mathias. I don't have a proxy with him today, butI feel his position ought to be noted.The Chairman. Very well, then, with those particularreservations made part of the record, the Committee willapprove the amended Recommendation No. 43.We move then to Recommendation 45 on page 78.Mr. Aaron. We attempted to redraft this along the linesas we were instructed, I believe.As it came out, it would prohibit the subsidy of anyTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 8]
# TOP SECRET6writing, publication, distribution within the United States or its territories, of any book, magazine, article and so forth.It has been pointed out that this formulation would prevent the writing of a book, even in a foreign language, within the United States, to be published abroad and distributed abroad, or any such materials from being published within the United States, even if they were distributed abroad.Now, that may be too restrictive and go beyond what the Committee intended, and so therefore we wanted to raise this here, to get a better understanding of what we were attempting to accomplish.As I understand it, what we were -- it was not clear, but it is possible that what the Committee had in mind was that any writing, publication for distribution in the United States would have been the appropriate formulation for this, and if that is correct, we can make a very easy fix.Senator Morgan. Why wouldn't it?The Chairman. Why wouldn't it accomplish it if we say that by statute the CIA should be prohibited from subsidizing the writing or production or distribution within the United States or its territories of any book, magazine, article, publication, film, or video or audio tape unless attributed to the CIA.Wouldn't that take care of it?Mr. Aaron. If that is what the Committee intends, that# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 9]
OP SECRET71 would take care of it.2 Senator Mondale. Publicly attributed.3 Mr. Aaron. Publicly4 Senator Huddleston. That is getting at what really we5 are trying to do.6 The Chairman. How about the balance of 45, "nor should7 the CIA be permitted to undertake any activity to accomplish8 indirectly such distribution within the United States or its9 territories.10 Well, I think that follows and should be a part of it.11 Very well.12 Senator Mathias. Mr. Chairman, I wonder, while we are in13 this area, if you could refresh my recollection, whether14 "grantees" in No. 44 applies to both foreign and American15 grantees.16 Mr. Bader. Yes, it would, Senator, under this language,17 because the Fulbright program or the such government-sponsored18 programs to include, too, include foreigners. As I understood19 it from the discussion of the Committee, the intent here was20 to ensure that public funds that were publicly devoted to21 a specific purpose were so spent and that was the issue that22 was involved here, was the appropriated funds for educational23 programs be kept to educational programs and not to be used24 operationally. But the language here would certainly include25 foreigners.TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 10]
TOP SECRET8Mr. Maxwell. Bill, would this prohibit the use of any individual person who is sponsored by an educational or cultural program, although not fully funded by the Federal Government?Senator Tower. This is a question I wanted to ask. Could one of our networks pick up a portion of a film broadcast abroad by the CIA and run it as part of a documentary to show what they are doing and that kind of thing?The Chairman. I think the way it has been modified that is not a problem. This says "by statute the CIA should be prohibited from subsidizing writings," or production.Senator Tower. That is what I mean, you are not precluded from showing it, but it should not be done under CIA auspices or government auspices..The Chairman. And it should not be written for the purpose of being shown in this country.Senator Tower. Yes.Mr. Aaron. Nor under the indirect clause, I think, nor should the CIA go to CBS and say "we've got this wonderful film."The Chairman. Using a network for the purpose of bringing it back. That would be an indirect way, and that would be wrong also.Senator Tower. I understand, yes.The Chairman. Well, then, if everybody understands theTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 11]
TOP SECRET9way we have recommended the change in 45, withcut objection the Committee approves it.Let us go, then, to the next subject, the structural changes, the role of the DCI on page 61..Mr. Aaron. I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. We have one other question, that would be Recommendation 47. The Committee agreed to extend --Mr. Kirbow. Excuse me, Mr. Aaron. Senator Mathias's question was on recommendation 44.The Chairman. Were you satisfied with the answer?Senator Mathias. Well, the question that was left floating was what about a student who is in a program which is primarily funded by some private institution, although there may be some small element --Mr. Maxwell. For instance, any major university that sponsored an individual coming under 44, which receives Federal Government funds, might be barred under a broad reading of 44, and it might be helpful to make that intent clearer in 44, if that is a concern of the Committee.Mr. Aaron. I think this goes to the grantee as opposed to the institution.Now, if it is true --The Chairman. It is the grantee that is receiving funds.Mr. Aaron. If you have a grantee receiving funds fromTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 12]
TOP SECRET10more than one source, then he receives them from more than one source, but if he is a grantee of a Federal program --Mr. Maxwell. But the problem is receiving funds through educational and/or cultural programs.For instance, if he were totally funded by the University of Maryland, which received financial support from the United States Government, arguably he is covered by that. It is not that he is receiving Federal grants. I think that is the intention.Mr. Aaron. It should be U.S. Government educational --Mr. Bader. Would that help?The Chairman. Through educational and/or cultural programs sponsored by the United States Government. Wouldn't that take care of it?Senator Huddleston. Well, grantees who are receiving directly from the United States Government or through educational or cultural programs supported by the United States Government.The Chairman. Sponsored by.Senator Huddleston. Well, in other words, whether he is getting them directly himself as a grantee, or whether he is receiving them from an educational program that is itself supported by the Federal Government.Senator Mathias. I don't want to prolong this, but what about a program which is really directed right at this area which has been referred to, the armed services militaryTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 13]
TOP SECRET1 educational operate?2 Mr. Bader. I'm sorry, sir?3 Mr. Aaron. Well, let me see if I understand the different4 examples. The student leader grant or the political leader5 grant that the State Department has where they bring foreigners6 to the United States for a period of time, presumably to7 acquaint them with the country and what have you, under this8 language those people while on the grant would be immune from9 being recruited by the CIA. This doesn't mean that they10 couldn't recruit them at some other point in their careers, but11 that during the period of that grant they would not be in12 effect brought here and used for that purpose. That is, I13 think, part of the intent of this particular provision.14 Senator Mathias. Let me give you another example. Say15 you have an Iranian naval officer who comes over here to16 Fort McNair.17 Is he fair game?18 Mr. Miller. That is not educational or cultural. It19 would be military.20 Senator Huddleston. I believe if he were going through21 the War College --22 Senator Tower. If he were going through the National23 War College, how do you classify that?24 Senator Mathias. He could come to the industrial base25 or civilian --TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 14]
TOP SECRET1 Mr. Kirbow. He could go to the Industrial College or the2 War College.3 Senator Schweiker. Can you exclude military training?4 Senator Mathias. I don't know. I don't know what you5 want.6 Senator Huddleston. We are training a lot of them or7 we entertain a lot of them.8 Senator Schweiker. It seems to me you have to put some9 proviso about military training in there.10 The Chairman. Well, it depends upon what the policy should11 be. I had thought the attempt here was to immunize any foreigner12 who comes here on a program sponsored by the Government of the13 United States and receives a grant for that program, to14 immunize him during that period from being recruited by the15 CIA.16 Senator Schweiker. Well, if he is here for military17 purposes, then we know it is a military relationship, I would18 think that is suspect.19 The Chairman. Would you want him subject to recruitment?20 Senator Schweiker. Well, if he comes over here militarily,21 you are so close to him, what is the difference?22 Mr. Aaron. Well, I think the point of the prohibition23 really is this, that these programs are created for one24 particular purpose. They are considered by the Congress for25 that particular purpose and the funds are voted for that
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 15]
TOP SECRET13particular purpose. If the programs are then used for another purpose by the Government, that was considered and suggested that that second purpose should not be used.Now, if you want to exempt certain categories here and say, well, the military is a different thing, you can do that. You can find a way to express that.The Chairman. Well, it could be done. If you want to recruit foreign military officers, we can bring them over to put them through the War College.Mr. Miller. What other training?Senator Huddleston. Well, we have a steady stream at Fort Knox, Kentucky of military people. I don't know what kind of training. Most of them are, of course, are from friendly nations to start with.I don't know, you know, military. Once a person puts on a uniform, he becomes fair game in a number of ways. He gives up a lot of protections that civilians have.Senator Schweiker. You allow him to recruit -- under other policies here we allow them to recruit foreign military officers because I think that's an even more valid relationship than the students, but I make it clear that what we don't want to do, which is to abort our honest to goodness cultural exchange and other programs.The Chairman. This could be done by saying "By statute the CIA should be prohibited from using operationally granteesTOP SECRETWARD & PAULprograms is much clearer.TOP SECRETWARD & PAUL
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 16]
TOP SECRET151 Senator Schweiker. Can we talk about Defense and military2 training programs at the same time? It seems to me that's3 the criteria, bringing a guy over here and educating him on4 defense and military must be to the advantage of our military,5 so you know what the relationship is to begin with. You are6 not unwittingly using the guy. You are pretty witting.7 If the guy goes to the American War College, he is pretty8 fair game.9 The Chairman. You can write an exception for the American10 War College and all of the military and civilian personnel11 receiving training under the auspices of the United States12 armed services who are fair game.13 (General laughter.)14 Senator Huddleston. Except I agree with Dave, that is15 a little awkward to zero in on this particular group. Couldn't16 we find some way --17 Mr. Kirbow. Mr. Chairman, I think it is not intended18 this apply only to foreign students coming this way, you19 include all American students going in the other direction,20 or under any other grant.21 Mr. Aaron. The intention of the provision initially, as22 a matter of fact, its primary effect was for American students23 traveling abroad.24 Senator Tower. Well, I see no problem with that. I know25 I don't have the votes here, but --TOP SECRETNW 50955 DocId: 32423521 Page 17WARD & PAUL
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 17]
# TOP SECRETThe Chairman. Which part do you have?Senator Tower. Well, not being able to use American students abroad on some grant to gather intelligence, when most of the people the damned Soviets send over here on these cultural exchanges are really clued into the government program, indoctrinated and briefed thoroughly before they get here. I am not going to tie our hands like that. The rest of you can, but I'm not going to.I will write a vigorous dissent on that.Senator Morgan. May I make a comment on that?I'm inclined to agree, and I'm also inclined to agree that we are going so far in our foreign intelligence that we are endangering the whole report, so you make that kind of an argument on the floor of the Senate on this and on two or three other things. I'm not picking at any of them. I am just sort of accepting the recommendations of the Subcommittee, but my reaction has been that maybe we are getting a little bit so far afield that we may endanger the acceptance of our whole report.The Chairman. Senator Huddleston?Senator Huddleston. I would just say this, that the Subcommittee has been cognizant of that situation. I think it is because of that that some of these recommendations are already softer than some of us thought would be appropriate, and this is one of the fields. There was a considerable amount of support# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 18]
TOP SECRET17of the idea that academics be off limits, period, and studentsin order to protect the integrity of our entire academiccommunity, and it is the realization that if we continued toclose the possibilities for recruitment, and the adverseeffect that that would have, maybe, on our ability to gatherintelligence, that some of us backed off of this, what wouldbe the optimum, we think, position to take. So this alreadyrepresents somewhat of a retreat from the principle that somewould like to see established, and in this case I think weare again faced with the question of whether or not we wanta government-sponsored program to enjoy a high level of integrityso that the people who are participating in it and the Americantaxpayer who is supporting it can have some confidence that itis doing what it was set out to do and what the publiclyannounced purposes of it are.And if we don't do that, if we permit it to be used asan operational intelligence operation, then it seems to me likewe ought to announce that, that that ought to be one of thepurposes so stated in the grant to start with, while we arelikely to get an education, it is also likely if we can wewill have you gather intelligence for us.Senator Morgan. Well, Dee, I think you are getting offbase for us. There is nothing that says they are required todo it.Senator Huddleston. That is correct.TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 19]
TOP SECRET181 Senator Morgan. In other words, we are not going to2 condition this grant on --3 Senator Huddleston. Well --4 Senator Morgan. Let me finish out, now. What you are5 leading up to is you are saying we are going to condition this6 grant on your cooperation with other governmental agencies.7 Senator Huddleston. I am saying that is not beyond the8 realm of possibility in some cases, if we don't put some9 prohibition.10 Senator Morgan. Well, I think there may be times,11 especially in the light of what we heard in the past year,12 when, you know, we might make that assumption, but I don't13 think that on the whole when you are dealing with the United14 States Government that you can really assume --15 Senator Hudddleston. But you can't assume he is not,16 either.17 The Chairman. But what worries me is you get a student18 who in good faith goes abroad for the purpose of study and19 qualifies for a Government grant, and he depends upon that20 money and then he, when he gets over there and wants to complete21 his studies, he is approached, and he can be approached in22 such a way that he can be made to feel that if he does not23 throw in with the CIA and do this and that, he may find that24 the grant will be cut off or he can't complete the study as he25 intended. He feels a certain dependency upon the money thatTOP SECRETWARD & PAULNW 50955 DocId: 32423521 Page 20
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 20]
# TOP SECRET19he is receiving, and he has an expectation he wants to fulfill. And thus he is in a very vulnerable position when he is approached.Senator Morgan. Well, that is a persuasive argument, but let me ask you, have we had any evidence that that sort of thing has happened?The Chairman. Well, I don't know.Senator Morgan. Well, it is a very persuasive argument, but I just wonder if we should, in the absence of abuse on that part, whether or not we should go this far.The Chairman. What about it, Mr. Bader?Mr. Bader. Mr. Chairman, I might say in partial response to Senator Tower's remarks that the Agency's basic instruction for the operational use of individuals, 50-10, specifically prohibits the operational use of Fulbright grantees. They have already made that decision in 1967, and reconfirmed in 1973. I assume part of that came from agitation at the time in '67 and Senator Fulbright's own determination that that program not be used for operational purposes.It was the original intent of this language to extend that prohibition, which is now a matter of public record, this actually, that part of the instruction is in the public record now under the Freedom of Information Act, that part of 50-10 that talks about Fulbright grantees. It was the original intent of the recommendation that is now before you to extend
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 21]
TOP SECRETthat prohibition on Fulbright grantees to all of those under the Fulbright-Hayes legislation. Under the specifics of the Agency's interpretation, it makes a distinction between those students, or graduate students, or professors selected by the Board of Foreign Scholarships, and the rest -- and the rest includes cultural leader grants and the like.Now, perhaps it might be the sensible thing in the language like this to confine it to the Fulbright-Hayes Act, which is the basic legislation which deals with this.Senator Schweiker. How many others would you have outside of that? Would you have a lot of other programs?Mr. Bader. Other programs?Senator Schweiker. What percent of the total picture is the Fulbright-Hayes Act?Mr. Bader. I really wouldn't know, Senator. I think it is the major part of it, actually. You could have a National Endowment for the Humanities fellowship in which a person would go overseas, and this, under the language we now have before you, that would include those individuals.The Chairman. Well, I can see how vulnerable a grantee might be when approached, and if we have already written into law a prohibition that relates to the Fulbright scholars, I should think it ought to apply to any others that are receiving educational or cultural grants from the United States.TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 22]
# TOP SECRET211 Senator Tower. That is not a law, that is a regulation.2 Mr. Aaron. And CIA's own regulation.3 The Chairman. But then it was adopted as part of the law,4 I thought you said.5 Mr. Bader. No, sir. I said it has been made public6 through the Freedom of Information Act. This is an internal7 directive of the Agency, and as the Senators know, those8 directives are certainly subject to change, so there really9 are, in effect, two basic parts of this recommendation. One10 was to commit the present internal prohibitions of the CIA to11 law, and then to extend it, and the issue before the Committee,12 in addition to whether there should be an extension, is sort13 of how far and what language should be used to portray or14 convey that prohibition?15 Senator Baker. Mr. Chairman, do we have anything from16 the Agency on this?17 Senator Huddleston. I think you've got to weigh, to some18 extent, the value of the two programs, of our cultural exchange19 programs' importance. I think the public knowledge of any one20 individual becomes known as a spy who is associated with a21 program, it has a devastating effect, in my judgment, on the22 program and on all students who are participating in it. I23 just think the risk is too great.24 Senator Tower. Well, my question at that point would be25 to what extent does our cultural exchange program impact on# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10133.pdf — page 23]
# TOP SECRET221 people behind the Iron Curtain, to convince them as people that2 we are nice folks, that they ought to influence their government3 to be a little bit more friendly toward us? It doesn't have4 any impact at all in a totalitarian state, none.5 It is really a one way street.6 Now, I am all for cultural exchange, simply because I7 like to watch Russian ballet dancers, especially females, but8 the fact of the matter is cultural change does more to soften9 up the American public toward the Iron Curtain than the10 other way around.11 The Chairman. That is an argument as to the merits of12 cultural exchange, and how you view ballerinas, but the question13 here we face is whether or not we should put American students14 in a position where they feel they must --15 Senator Tower. I don't think they must be coerced.16 The Chairman. But there is an element of intimidation17 involved if they are receiving a grant from the government.18 Senator Tower. Well, I would favor a specific prohibition19 against making that a condition of getting a grant or scholarship20 of some sort.21 Senator Baker. Or continuing one.22 Senator Tower. Or continuing one.23 Senator Hart of Michigan. Well, John, what do you say24 to Dee's point? If my roommate turns out to be a spy, it is25 automatically assumed I am, and every guy in the outfit. What# TOP SECRET