Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 57]
# TOP SECRETPhone (Area 202) 544-60001 do something else and was going to meet someone else, that was2 fine with ma. It enabled me to get back to my immediate and3 more pressing problems.4 In this business you just do not ask your superior, what5 are you doing? That is just not cricket; that is not the way6 the game is played.tape 47 Mr. Baron. Do you recall a time when Harvey asked you to8 procure arms and equipment to be passed to a Cuban exile?9 Mr. Halley. To a Cuban exile?10 Mr. Baron. Let me strike the reference to a Cuban exile.11 Do you recall a time when Harvey asked your aid in procur-12 ing arms and equipment to be given to a man named Tony Varona13 who was a contact of Harvey's?14 Mr. Halley. I know Tony Varona. He was in the period --15 prior to the Bay of Pigs, he was part of the consejo.16 Frankly, if you've got something that you can sharpen that17 up, I think you need some basis, that I think that can trigger18 my memory here. I do not remember frankly Tony Varona being19 in Harvey's --20 Mr. Baron. In contact with Harvey?21 Mr. Halley. You know, I may have procured something for22 Harvey, some kind of equipment or done some kind of operational23 support task.24 Mr. Baron. Let us make it more specific.25 Do you recall helping Harvey load a U-Haul trailer full of# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 58]
TOP SECRET56about $5,000 worth of arms and equipment to be left in a parkinglot and picked up there by a contact of Harvey's? And thiswould be in approximately April of 1962.Mr. Halley. I do vaguely remember something about a rentedtruck. Quite frankly, I do not really recall all the detailsof this at this particular time. I do not remember, you know,personally procuring any material, but it is conceivable thatI did get a request from Harvey, that I did go to the logisticsapparatus, and whatever he had requested from official stockshe was provided.Mr. Baron. During that same period of time --Mr. Halley. I do recall something about a truck. I donot recall anything about a trailer. My recollection of thistruck incident seems to be -- I do not remember what it was.We did do something for him logistically, I do remember a truckbeing involved with some logistic material in terms of aparking lot. But frankly that is about all I can recall of itat this particular time.Mr. Baron. Do you have any recollection of hearing ofpoison pills in any connection during your tenure at JMWAVE?Mr. Halley. No, I do not recall -- poison pills? Poisonpills, the only kind of thing I can recall occasionally whenpeople were talking about being on mother ships, you know, whatwould happen if they were captured. This was a discussionoccasionally of whether any kind of drugs should be issued toTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 59]
# TOP SECRET1 the people who were manning these vessels so they could do2 themselves in if they were to be captured, things like that,3 but we never issued any such pills but there were discussions4 of that kind of a problem. I do recall specific agents who5 were sent back to Cuba to run a collection or to go back into6 the bush and so forth who asked for some sort of pills which7 they could kill themselves with if they were captured.8 But other than that -- if that is what you were referring9 to, I think they are called L pills, or something, as they10 were referred to in those days.11 Mr. Baron. Why were they called L pills?12 Mr. Halley. Everything has a number or nomenclature, I13 do not know.14 Mr. Baron. Did you ever hear of poison pills to be used15 in assassination operations against Fidel Castro or other16 Cuban leaders?17 Mr. Halley. No.18 Is that referencing to this material that I might have19 provided for Harvey? Because if that is the case, I can dispel20 that quickly, because I would not have had access to them.21 Mr. Baron. You would not have access to poison pills?22 Mr. Halley. No, I would not have access to them.23 Mr. Baron. Why not?24 Mr. Halley. I did not have them in my inventory. That is25 not anything that I have, you know, command and control of. That# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 60]
TOP SECRET1 is why --2 Mr. Baron. They would have had to come directly from3 Technical Services Division at CIA?4 Mr. Halley. That is what I'm trying to clarify what it is5 that you are trying to establish from me.6 In other words, if you are saying --7 Mr. Baron. Let us move further, I think we can be more8 specific now.9 We have a document that I am about to show you. I just10 wanted to clear up the background of it before we discussed11 the document.12 Mr. Halley. Let me just make this point. If you are13 talking about drug pills, I had no source of such things, so14 if that is the nature of your question, I can say I had nothing15 to do with that. If you are talking about, you know --16 Mr. Baron. Arms and equipment --17 Mr. Halley. -- weapons or something, yes, that was in my18 inventory. I could have issued that to Harvey, you know, guns,19 ammunition, plastics, that kind of thing I could have had20 access to, yes. That is why I am trying to sort out really21 where the thrust of your questioning is.22 Mr. Baron. There were two prongs to the question, you23 have picked both of them up. One is whether you had ever heard24 of poison pills in connection with an assassination operation25 against Fidel Castro, and your testimony would be that you hadTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 61]
TOP SECRET1 not, is that correct?2 Mr. Halley. That is right. I would not have had access to those pills myself, nor did the Station. In other words, if I had wanted something like that, I would have had to corresponded with Washington in order to have had access to it, if in fact it existed.6 Mr. Baron. You never had any such correspondence?7 Mr. Halley. I never had any correspondence that I can recall.9 Mr. Baron. The other problem was the supply of arms and equipment to which you already replied.12 Have you ever read that Inspector General's Report of 1967, prepared at the request of the DCI to fill him in on any assassination efforts to which the CIA may have been connected?15 Mr. Halley. No, I have not read the report.16 Mr. Baron. Before you came here today you were not shown any excerpts from this report to refresh your recollection at the CIA?18 Mr. Halley. The IG Report?19 Mr. Baron. Yes.20 Mr. Halley. No, I have not.21 Mr. Baron. Were you shown any other documents at the CIA today to refresh -- or in preparation for today's session23 Mr. Halley. No.24 In preparation for today's session I have had severalTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 62]
TOP SECRET1 conversations with Seymour Boultin --2 Mr. Baron. Walt Elder?3 Mr. Halley. I talked to Walt Elder on the phone. You know the people who are involved in this thing. I have asked for4 that, I talked to our attorney, Clarke --5 Mr. Baron. George Clarke?6 Mr. Halley. Yes.7 -- I talked to a number of people, I asked to see the8 newspaper clipping from the Miami Herald on the McGovern9 activity. Yes, I have looked at that kind of thing. But I have not looked at the specific IG Report. I have not read it,10 I have not seen an extract of the IG Report.11 Mr. Baron. Were you given any specific instructions as to12 the kinds of things that you could say or not say here today?13 Mr. Halley. You know, nothing beyond what you and I touched on which you have already put on the record.14 Mr. Baron. Which is not to mention the names of CIA officers who are still operating under cover?15 Mr. Halley. Right, or agents who would still be viable that I know of.16 Mr. Baron. Right.17 Then let me show you a document which we will mark as18 Halley Exhibit No. 2.(The document referred to was marked HalleyTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 63]
TOP SECRETPhone (Area 202) 544-600012345678910111213141516171819202122232425410 First Street, S. E., Washington, D.C. 20003TOP SECRETExhibit No. 2 foridentification.)61
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 64]
TOP SECRET1 Mr. Baron. Which is an excerpt from the Inspector General's2 Report of 1967 at pages 49 and 50, and I will ask you to read3 the portions that I will bracket which deal with a report of4 a meeting between yourself and William Harvey involving the5 supply of arms and equipment.6 (Pause)7 Mr. Halley. I have no reason to doubt this. I may have8 provided this support. I do not recall sitting in a parking lot9 observing --10 Mr. Baron. For the record, we are discussing the passage11 that begins, "When the pills were given to Varona through12 Roselli, Varona requested arms and equipment needed for the13 support of his end of the operation. Roselli passed the request14 to Harvey. Harvey, with the help of [Mr. Halley], the chief15 of the JMWAVE Station, procured".--.16 Continuing.--And then it continues to say a large shopping17 list of arms and equipment, which cost about $5,000 and were18 supplied in a parking lot of a drive-in restaurant in a rented19 U-Haul truck.20 Would the cost of $5,000 have been an unusual expenditure21 at that time at JMWAVE Station for arms and equipment?22 Mr. Halley. No, $5,000 would not have been an unusualexpenditure.23 Mr. Baron. Not unusual enough, in fact, for you to have24 a particular memory of the event?25 TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 65]
TOP SECRET1 Mr. Halley. No.2 Now that I read over this thing, I do recall, as I told3 you earlier before you showed me this document something about4 a rented truck and being involved with Harvey in providing him5 some logistical support for an activity. I do not recall this6 specific list of equipment being involved, you know, somewhere7 you got this and if I could check it against the files, if there8 are any files available, I could verify whether this is correct9 or not.10 Mr. Baron. Whether or not the particular list is correct,11 you would say that these couple of passages from the IG Report12 generally characterize your involvement with Harvey in this13 one incident correctly?14 Mr. Halley. I would want to sharpen this up, because you15 have one, two, two paragraphs here. In the first paragraph16 there is a reference to some pills. I had nothing to do with17 any pills. I have no recollection of any pills.18 Mr. Baron. Let us jump then to the very last statement and19 let me ask you if this confirms your own sense of your knowledge.20 The report says: "Harvey says that (Halley)" here I21 am using your alias "never knew to whom delivery was made nor22 for what purpose. (Halley) was merely called upon to furnish23 support for a headquarters operation from which he was otherwise24 excluded."25 Does that generally characterize correctly your point ofTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 66]
# TOP SECRET1 involvement with this activity?2 Mr. Halley. I would say that is correct.3 I want to go back to these other points, though, because4 I want to be meticulously correct here. I do not recall the5 specifics of this inventory of equipment. I do not recall,6 you know, sitting in a parking lot surveilling any kind of a7 vehicle. On the other hand, I do recall having been involved8 with Harvey in some sort of an effort with a U-Haul truck.9 Now therefore that last sentence you have read is correct,10 I knew nothing about any of this delivery.and I was called upon11 to furnish support for a headquarters operation from which I12 was otherwise excluded.13 Mr. Baron. You are not denying, are you, that you may have14 sat near the parking lot and surveilled the truck until it was15 picked up?16 Mr. Halley. I have no recollection --17 Mr. Baron. One way or the other?18 Mr. Halley. No, I would say that my sitting in a parked19 car with Harvey surveilling a parking lot is the kind of thing20 that would have stuck in my mind. I do not recall ever doing.21 that and that is the thing that has me a little perplexed here22 and I am having trouble matching this thing up with my own23 memory. It would have been damned unusual for Harvey and I to24 have sat in a parking lot, and I just do not recall that.25 I do have a vague recollection of being involved with him# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 67]
TOP SECRET66Phone (Area 202) 544-60001 in some sort of caper involving a U-Haul truck.2 Mr. Baron. At that time, if Harvey had made a request of3 you to supply $5,000 worth of equipment like explosives,4 detonators, .30 caliber rifles, .45 caliber handguns, radios5 and boat radar, would you have supplied that equipment to Harvey6 or to anyone he designated without asking him what the purpose7 of the operation was?8 Mr. Halley. Yes, I would have supplied it to Harvey or9 to his designated representative, depending on how that person10 identified himself to me with the equipment that he requested.11 That was my chain of command and, if he had told me that he12 had wanted this material for any operational activity, I would13 have seen to it that it was issued to him. That is the way the14 Agency functions.15 Mr. Baron. Would it have been standard procedure in a16 paramilitary operation to procure equipment that would not have17 been traceable to the United States as the IG Report indicates18 was done in this case?19 Mr. Halley. It depends. It depends on what was the20 .sponsorship that was trying to be conveyed to the paramilitary21 group.22 In other words, let us say there was a Venezuelan business-23 man who may have been giving some assistance to a Cuban exile24 group. If somebody had gotten in touch with that Venezuelan25 businessman and he was saying I brought weapons into FloridaTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 68]
TOP SECRET671 or equipment which I will give you, then maybe under that kind of2 a circumstance we wouldn't want anything that would clearly3 identify it with the U.S. government and then that would be the4 normal thing to do. I would have to know the sponsorship.5 Mr. Baron. This request would not have been extraordinary6 either, to provide "sterile" equipment to a contact of Harvey's?7 Mr. Halley. It would not have attracted my attention to8 make it seem out of the ordinary.9 Mr. Baron. Were you aware of the presence of a CIA officer10 named Jim O'Connell in Florida at that time?11 Mr. Halley. No.12 : Mr. Baron. Had you been aware of any operational.13 involvement that Jim O'Connell had with anyone in' Florida. at14 any time?,15 Mr. Halley.. I do not know Jim O'Connell. I have seen16 references to Jim O'Connell in Jack Anderson's columns and17 things like that since I have been reading the Press, but I18 do not know Jim O'Connell. If he walked into this room, -I19 would not recognize him because I do not think I ever met the20 man. I do not know who he is. I asked several of my colleagues21 when I first saw his name appear in the Press who it was, and22 nobody could describe him in a way that would enable me to23 remember ever having seen or met the man.24 Mr. Baron. Had you heard of the man in connection with25 operations against. Cuba --TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 69]
TOP SECRET681 Mr. Hallay. I had not.2 Mr. Baron. -- before reading it in the newspapers3 recently?4 Mr. Halley. Before reading in the newspapers and I do not5 know what year I first read this, because somewhere in the back6 of my mind is a Jack Anderson column --7 Mr. Baron. And a Drew Pearson column before that.8 Mr. Halley. -- a couple of years ago in which it was9 obvious that this was obtained from a military assignee to the10 Agency named Brad something -- I cannot think of his name11 right now -- and that he was the source of that information. I12 think somewhere in one of those articles, his name had13 appeared several years ago. I frankly do not know who the quy14 is.15 Mr. Baron. At any point in your operational relationship16 with William Harvey in connection with Cuban affairs, did you17 suspect that an assassination operation was being run out ofTask Force W against Fidel Castro?18 Mr. Halley. No.19 Mr. Baron. I would like to run down a list of the names20 of some people who were involved in one way or the other with21 an assassination operation that was being run out of Task Force22 W, and I will represent to you that there was indeed an23 assassination effort or a series of efforts run out of Task24 Force W beginning -- and out of the CIA -- beginning in October25 TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 70]
# TOP SECRET1 of 1960 involving connections between CIA officials and people2 who have been characterized as members of the Mafia, of the3 gambling Syndicate who had interests in Havana and which involved4 the passage of poison pills to people inside Cuba purportedly5 for use against Castro in the restaurant that he frequented.6 And this plot by William Harvey's own admission was directed7 by Harvey during Harvey's tenure as the Chief of Task Force W.8 Mr. Halley. I take due note of what you are saying. I9 have no knowledge of that. I will be glad to comment on any10 of the names. My commenting on names is in no way to reflect11 any knowledge on my part of this particular activity, because12 I have no knowledge of it.13 Mr. Baron. You have already stated that you have no14 knowledge of any assassination effort involving poison pills?15 Mr. Halley. Yes.16 Mr. Baron. Did you ever hear of any assassination schemes17 which may or may not have been put into effect involving18 exploding sea shells that Castro might pick up by scuba diving?19 Mr. Halley. No, I do not recall any exploding sea shells20 while Castro was scuba diving, but the problem of Castro being21 an avid scuba diver is well-known to me. As I recall, somewhere22 in this thing there was a refugee group or Cuban exile group23 or somebody at one time in this whole activity who had focused24 on the question of whether Fidel Castro was vulnerable at the25 time that he was scuba diving. I have heard that discussed but# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 71]
TOP SECRET1 frankly I do not remember in what forum, and your reference to2 the scuba diving has triggered that response. Nothing about3 exploding sea shells.4 Mr. Baron. You do not recall ever hearing Desmond5 FitzGerald mention that subject or hearing that Desmond6 FitzGerald was involved in exploring that possibility, planting7 an exploding sea shell?8 Mr. Halley. The exploding sea shell is enough of an off-9 beat kind of thing that I think I would have recalled it. I10 don't recall it.11 I do recall Castro's scuba diving, and that representing12 a vulnerability and somewhere in the recesses of my memory,13 that does strike a bell with me that some exile group, somebody14 was talking about Fidel Castro being vulnerable while he was15 scuba diving.16 Mr. Baron. Did you ever hear of a plan to present Castro17 with a skin-diving suit in which bacteria injurious to his health18 would have been cultured, bacteria that would have produced19 tuberculosis and would have produced a dreadful disease?20 Mr. Halley. I have never heard of any bacteria approach21 to the problem of dealing with Fidel Castro.22 I do want to come back to this that I do recall something23 about scuba diving, you know, on the range of Fidel being24 vulnerable at the time he was scuba diving, but I do not recall25 exploding sea shells or bacteria.TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 72]
TOP SECRET711 Mr. Baron. Let us turn then to the list of name --2 Mr. Halley. Wait a minute. Just let me make a note to3 myself.4 (Pause)5 Mr. Baron. Do you have any knowledge, acquired directly6 or indirectly, of any involvement of John Roselli in Cuban7 operations?8 Mr. Halley. Other than reading the papers --9 Mr. Baron. Other than what you read recently in the papers10 did you acquire any knowledge during your period as Chief of11 Station at JMWAVE of John Roselli's involvement in Cuban12 operations?13 Mr. Halley. No. I had the impression from Harvey going14 off that he was meeting with somebody, and at one point in time15 I came to the impression that he was meeting a guy by the name16 of John. Who John was, I had no idea. We were involved in an17 attempt to try to find two Soviets at one point who were of18 interest. The fellow who provided the lead to that had been19 a member of one of the casinos in Cuba at some time.20 Mr. Baron. Do you remember who that was?21 Mr. Halley. No, I do not. I do not remember the man's22 name. It may come to me. You are asking me things that23 happened, you know, in 1962. As I have told you, I have been24 in a lot of places.25 Anyway, when we put in a request for a trace on the sourceTOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 73]
# TOP SECRET721 of this lead, I was surprised with the speed with which we got2 a response back on this man and the details run down that we3 got on him in terms of who he was and where he worked and so4 forth, and I think I concluded at that time that somebody knew5 this fellow very well and somewhere in the whole labrynth, either6 Justice or we or somebody had access to somebody who could give7 us a great deal of insight into people who had been involved8 with the gambling establishment in Cuba.9 Those are the only two things that I can say to you that10 I knew at the time. Obviously I have since read the papers and11 I have put together in my own mind by deduction that the John12 that I was aware of that Harvey was in touch with must be John13 Roselli, but I cannot provide to you --14 Mr. Baron. Would this person with contacts with gambling15 interests in Havana have been Santos Trafficante?16 Mr. Halley. I would have no way of knowing. I know who17 Santos Trafficante is.18 Mr. Baron. How do you know this?19 Mr. Halley. This is like asking me whether I knew where20 7th Street is in downtown Miami. Santos Trafficante is a name21 that constantly was discussed among Cuban exiles and he was a22 well-known figure. You could not possibly be involved.23 Mr. Baron. Did you know of any involvement that he had24 in Cuban operations that were connected in any way to the CIA?25 Mr. Halley. None that. I know of. To the best of my# TOP SECRET
[157-10014-10046.pdf — page 74]
# TOP SECRET1 recollection when I was in Miami, Santos Trafficante was in the2 Tampa area and that is my recollection of it at the time.3 I also think that there was some large scandal, when I was4 in Miami, that was played up in the Press. I forget, some5 Federal agent who was somehow involved with the Mafia and with6 the Syndicate and there was some linkage in the Press between7 Santos Trafficante, Cubans and the Federal agent, but I do not8 remember the details of it.9 Mr. Baron. The Federal agent was not a CIA employee?10 Mr. Halley. No, he was not. My recollection is he was11 Narcotics or something.12 Mr. Baron. You would make the same statement about John13 Roselli that you had no knowledge of his connection with any14 CIA sponsored operation against the Cuban government or against15 Castro personally?16 Mr. Halley. At the time that I was there -- you know, I17 want to caution you that I have read the Press. If I have18 trouble sorting this out, I want you to understand that --19 Mr. Baron. I understand that clearly.20 Mr. Halley. -- that this is a dilemma for me. Obviously21 I told you I made my own deduction that John, the one that22 Harvey was in touch with, must have turned out in the context of23 20/15 hindsight to be John Roselli. At the time, I did not24 know that.25 Mr. Baron. What about Robert Maheu? Did you have any# TOP SECRET