Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 171]
for press purposes. He wanted to take portraits of all the Africans. He got their names. He had a tremendous file there. (laughing) And he also had a wirephoto machine which worked right out of his studio. He did Phombeah and another fellow while I was there.Anyway, Phombeah was known to Verges. He may have met him when Verges was in the *IUS*, International Union of Students, in Prague. He was the VicePresident. There are four vice presidents. Verges was one of them.As I said, when we were in Algeria, we had this woman Roslind Ainslie as our correspondent here. When there came the blow-up- there was Phombeah- he knew Rosalind Ainslie and was giving her political advice. In other words, he was muchhigher up in the hierarchy of the British Communist Party, although theoretically he is not a member of the party. That I don't know. But she certainly accepted what he said to a great extent. But he was gong with overyone. So whenshe ceased to workfor us he agreed to work, for £50 a month, but not to have his naned used. He didn't want his name to appear in the magazine. He said "however, I'm certain that Babu this was before the revolution I'm certain that Babu will be willing." He sent a cable to him and got a reply which was favorable. Babu then turned up in Paris and London. He was at the Labor Party congress at Scarborough. On his way back to Africa from that congress he stopped in Paris and that was his meeting with Verges.He told Verges then: he said "ve will be in pover within six to eight weeks after independence" And of course he was. And really that shocked Verges, Varges to see somebody who really knew what he would do. Also Babu- - very strange in that he doesn't dress well at all. He looks very sloppy.I saw him next at the UN conference, the Geneva Conference. He came to Paris with the Omar character who was is still here. I saw he was presented to the Queen not too long ago. And his so-called Chef de Protocol, who just happened to be a boy who could speak French which was a convenience. He also came with an Italian girl by the name of Betti, her last name, and I suspect, although I an not certain, that she is Laura Betti, who is a well-known Italian actress and the alleged mistress of Pierre Paolo Passaly the film director, He vas the man who made Accatonia and just made the Gospel According to St. Matthew which got a big prize and all that. He is a homosexual and so it is a very strange sort of relationship. She was supposed to be a member of the
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Nenni Socialists. I don't know if she has gone with the PSIUP, people the new left split, or not. I tried to get more information about her in Rome but I couldn't just walk in and say "veren't you the girl I found in bed with Babu". She speaks English well and she spent a considerable amount of time in Geneva with him and came to Paris with him.He was also with Murray Sales (phon) an Australian who spent most of his time as a mutual funds salesman. Murray was based in Geneva. I suspect that he also was supplying girls.Murry was also in contact with and introduced Babu to a man by the name of Victor Herbert, who is an American Mutual Funds salesman. He used to be with OIS, Overseas Investment Service, in Geneva, which is the biggest American overseas fund, run by a man by the name of Bernie Kante Cornbelt(?). Exactly what this curious crowd was do'ng with Babu there in Genova I don't know. Murray Sales then later told stories which were not quite true of a man who was going around the Hotel Intercontinental in Geneva knocking on doors saying that "are you a Foreign Minister?" "Yes" Well, I want to invest $50,000 in your country. Which country do you come from." Now Murray Felt's story is different. He told Encounter that someone came and said, "I'm from the CIA. Here's a gold watch and I'll give you $50,000 if you'll work for us." (Who are you) Yes, who are you?Despite some of the curious antics I heard of with Cubans, I can't believe anybody would get that way. And besides, Babu was very amused by the man who did come. And he didn't get a watch. He told me that he'd gotten a camera from the West Germans once. They said "don't recognize Ubricht and we'll give you this lovely camera." Of course they had already made a deal with East Germany.(What was Victor Herbert's rolein all this?)I suspect that they were trying to invest money, that was all.The thing which interests me about all of this is that Babu, despite the fact he is a revolutionary, and a very competent one, I think, he has other scheming to his fow.One, he is very much interested in women. Two, he drinks heavily.Money, which is extremely scarce in Zanzibar like most places in the world, is of great interest to him. He also told us that he had informed the Chinese that he was going to carry out the coup and the Chinese were opposed to it. They went ahead anyway. They thought it was an adventure.Then afterwards since you were able to do it (is that what he told you?)
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Yes, that's what he told Vergest and me. *Actually, that wasn't for publication*. Phombeah brought in Babu. Babu had no real connection with the magazine except on these two occasions. He gave me an interview which was printed in the last issue - in both issues of Revolution, and that was all. Then he went off to Indonesia. That's history. The merger has being made between Tanganyika and Zanzibar and it was *partly* partially behind his back although he knew that it was going to go on and he was not at all opposed. He felt that it was a good thing. We found it difficult to understand why he felt it was a good thing, but he thought that in Tanganyßika the chaos was so great and the lack of defined goals, the lack of ability- the capacity to satisfy the *growing* needs of the masses community. there would be such that the Indians which had its hand on the *small* floor business and also the *big-time* fibre plantations and [Julius] what-not were an especially vulnerable target group, that/Nyerere, despite all of his humanism and his Catholic religion wouldn't be able to put up much resistance. I think he was quite right. That's what happened. That is, Zanzibar which is taking over Tanganyiké into Tanzania. There was a struggle between Babu and Handa, but that seemed to calm down to a great extent. I think that's over now. I've heard different things. I don't know.One of the things that this fellow Curtis Cabe of the Atlantic monthly proposed to do - he has more proposals than he has dollars- unfortunately, is that we try to go to Zanzibar. No one has even done any (reporting) *really of any particular note*. I probably could get in. No one/has written anything about Zanzibar, since the revolution. Don't know whether that is possible or not. (There was a great deal of noise at the time of the revolution about Babu's relationship with Kao Liang, the NENA man.)Well, yes, it's true he has worked for them. And after he informed them of what he was going to do, they that was about two or three days before the revolution. They had given him a small amount of money, but not much. it wasn't their money - the Zanzibar revolution, *it was extremely confusing*, because he was out of the country at the time. Heknew what must be done. But for instance, the bringing in of- the fellow- Okello which was an incredible thing to do. the former police corporal from Uganda. I have the feeling that he was by no means all powerful, that it was a coalition of forces, the revolution was popular in the sense that the overwhelming majority of the island's population was represented among the revolutionaries who turned against the Arab and Indian population.
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 174]
which had long had a standing grudge against that and saw no way of doing away with, but obviously they weren't all as left as Babu.Osman madeYou had for instance Othman Sharif, who may be Ambassador to United States. be main son was made Ambassador in vile then to keep him out of Tanganyika. He was going to be here in London, I think he was the High Commissioner in London, for a very short period of time. And then when the merger came, it was the Tanganyikan High Commissioner who represented the merged countries, with Omar Zoran still staying on as the Secretary, Dennis Phombeah. Phombeah going to the UN where he had been in Geneva at one point now in New York, Sharif going to Washington((And was recently recalled),Yes. Sharif's position is extremely shaky, but they really disliked him greatly, but because he is the head of the Suisaia Community they couldn't strike him down right away. What they wanted to do really was to put him in a position where he would finally be bought out. They figured that he would go over to the Western side. One day or the other he would jump. And that's the way of getting rid of him- without them having to do anything. That's one reason he was sent to Washington. They thought that after a while he would. .((So much for Babu. Now onthe Board))Now we have the Mulana Bashani- - he is a Pakistani. Dennis Rhombeah was unable to continue his work. He was unable really to do anything. He was just collecting £60 a month. The reason that he did absolutely nothing was that the actual work was done by a Pakistani named Hansa AlaviHansa Alavi a former secretary, Third Secretary or something, of the Pakistan National Bank. He is a Marxist, doubt that he is actually a member of the Pakistan Communist party. He comes from the Ismaeli Sect. Moslem Sects, and his family is extremely wealthy and has holdings in Tanganyikaya fibre plantation. He also has relatives in Zanzibar. When he was asked by Dennis Phombeah to go to Zanzibar to help straighten out their balance of payments problems, which he wanted to do, his family told him that if he did he'd never come back to them, since they had lost some money, He is a great friends of Ralph Milleband of London School of Economic here. He is an academic. He has contacts with Trotskyist groups. His contacts with the British Communist party are not very good. He is very easy going, a rather soft personality. He is by no means 100% or even 50% pro-Chinese. In particular because he doesn't approve of Chinese support for President Ayub Khan. This led to his replacement finally.
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 175]
Yes, that's what he told Vergest and me. *tatually, that want por publication* Phombeah brought in Babu, Babu had no real connection with the magazine except on these two occasions. He gave me an interview which was printed in the last issue - in both issues of Revolution, and that was all. Then he went off to Indonesia. That's history. The merger bas being made between Tanganyika and Zanzibar and it was pasżży partially behind his back although he knew that it was going to go on and he was not at all opposed. He felt that it was a good thing. We found it difficult to understand why he felt it was a good thing, but he thought that in Tanganyßika the chaos was so great and the lack of defined goals, the *cour gro* lack of ability the capacity to satisfy the gåawing needs of the masses community. there would be such that the Indians sравинки********tes which had its *small* hand on the floor business and also the big-the fibre plantations and what-not were an especially vulnerable target group, that [Julius] Nyerere, despite all of his humanism and his Catholic religion wouldn't be able to put up much resistance. I think he was quite right. That's what happened. That is, Zanzibar wàách is taking over Tanganyike into Tanzania. There was a struggle between Babu and Handa, but that seemed to calm down to a great extent. I think that's over now. I've heard different things. I don't know.One of the things that this fellow Curtis Kati Cabe of the Atlantic monthly proposed to do - he has more proposals than he has dollars- unfortunately, is that we try to go to Zanzibar. No one has even done any (reporting) really of any particular note I probably could get in. No one/has written anything about Zanzibar, since the revolution. Don't know whether that is possible or not. Zanzibar ((There was a great deal of noise at the time of the revolution about Babu's relationship with Kao Liang, the NeNA man. DWell, yes, it's true he has worked for them. And after he informed them of what he was going to do, theythat was about two or three days before the revolution. They had given him a small amount of money, but not much. it wasn't their money .. It was 20turely conjuring the Zanzibar revolution, because he was out of the country at the time.Hoknew what must be done. But for instance, the bringing in of- - the fellow- - Okello which was an incredible thing to do. the former police corporal from Uganda. I have the feeling that he vas by no means all powerful, that it was a coalition of forces,- the revolution was popular in the sense that the overwhelming majority of the  land's population represented among or the revolutionaries who turned against the Arab and Indian f-opulationst = of the wirl ;
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# 14-00000which had long had a standing grudge against that and sav no way ofdoing away with, but obviously they weren't all as left as Babu.Osman madeYou had for instance Othmen Sharif, who may be Ambassador to United States. be main nason he was made Ambassador to ile Letus erto iile to ven go keep him out of Tanganyika. He was going to be here in London, I think he was the High Commissioner in London, for a very short period of time. And then when the merger came, it was the Tanganyikan High Commissioner who represented the merged countries, with Omar Zoran still staying on as the Secretary, then with Dennis Phombeah going to the UN where he had been, in Geneva at one point) nov in New York, Sharif going to Washington((And was recently recalled),Yes. Sharif's position is extremely shaky, but they really disliked Suisais Communit him greatly, but because he is the head of the Sterneft they couldn't strike him down right away. What they wanted to do really was to put him in a position where he would finally be bought out. They figured that he would go over to the Western side. One day or the other he would jump. And that's the way of getting rid of him- without then having to do anything. That's one reason he was sent to Washington. They thought that after a while he would.((Ho much for Babu. Now onthe Board))Now we have the Mulana Bashani- - he is a Pakistani. Dennis Rhombeah was unable to continue his work. He was unable really to do anything. He was just collecting £60 a month. The reason that he did absolutely nothing was that the actual work was done by a Pakistani named Hamza Alavi. Hamsa Alavi a former secretary, Third Secretary or something, of the Pakistan National Bank. He is a Marxist, doubt that he is actually a member of the Communist party. He comes from the Ismaeli Sect Moslem Sects, and his family is extremely wealthy and has holdings in, Tanganyika, fibre plantation. He also has relatives in Zanzibar. When he was asked by Dennis Phombeah to go to Zanzibar to help straighten out their balance of payments problems, which he wanted to do, his family told him that if he did he'd never come back to them, since they had lost some money. He is a great friends of Ralph Milleband of LSE here. He is an academic. He has contacts with Trotskyist groups. His contacts with the British Communist party are not very good. He is very easy going, a rather soft personality. He is by no means 100% or even 50% pro-Chinese. In facti particular because he doesn't approve of Chinese support for President Ayub Khan. This led to his replacement finally.# ١٦
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Verges wanted somebody from Pakistan on the board. (شعله) He/said "I'm certain that the Mulana Bashani Kahn will agree".((That would be Mulana Abdul Hamid Bashani))That's right. He's sometimes called Kahn as a title of respect.He's a 70 or 80 years old man. He's called the Red Mullah, sort of like the Red Dean of Canterbury.He's the leader of one of the East Pakistan parties. He had been to China and was quite pro-Chinese. He was more than willing. But he had absolutely no contact whatever with the magazine.((Did he come in to replace Hamba Alavi))Yes.((How long did Hansa Alavi work with the magazine))You would have to check the issues of the English edition. He was there until slightly before we dropped Rosalind Ainslie. That would beMay of 63. right up to spring of 64.((Did Hansa Alavi do anything actually)) or did he just foundHe got manuscripts and so on. He actually did the work that Phombeah never did. But that was all. And it was sort of *contra coeur* with him because he did not agree with the thing. He had the idea that the magazine was *axecutest* open forum, *rostrum* for the debate between an sort of all sorts of revolutionary movements. But when it became very obvious that Verges wanted to try, at that time, at least, to stay with the Chinese line, it particularly because of his feelings about the situation in Pakistan and he wasn't happy. Also on the question of India, he felt that the Chinese position vis-a-vis India wasn't just, and he didn't like the hook-upt between Pakistani the friendship and actual solidarity between Pakistan and China.(So he was through amicably. What is the present relationship between Alavi and Verges))I doubt if he has any at all. He is very active here in London with Pakistani groups. he has money. His wife"s family has money, his own family has. It wasn't a question of money for him.((Has he continued to be active in AfreeAsian things))He's an academic. The Socialist Register published last year by an article on Imperialism by him. He is active around the London School of Economics. He is known to the academic Left, friends with the boys who do Left Review and so on. His only practical work would be working with Pakistani groups for instance during the last election
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the Tories ran in several constituencies Pakistani independent candidatesin the hope of breaking the Labor vote, hoping that the Pakistanis wouldvote for these Pakistani independents. Hansa worked with the Labor Partyin those constituencies, to counter this; and apparently they were quitesuccessful. He has very good connections inside the Labor Party. Andhe does not have very good ties at all with the Communist Party, thoughhe is not by any means anti-Communist. He's a skeptic.(How about Bashani)He has never done anything. Never heard from him except once when hesaid we could put his name on the board. As far as I know there hasnever been any contact.(Do they get paid for this)No.Next is Hassan Riad. He is E. Amir. He is an official of the UN(with headquarters in DakarEconomic Commission for Africa, UN economic adviser in Dakar, He has avery high position inthat. He is Egyptian, a full member of the EgyptianCommunist Party with very very pronounced Trotskyist views. That is, hefeels, he has a theory about the role of bureaucracy in under-developedcountries - the progressive and reactionary bureaucracy- fits intogeneral Trotskyist theories but applied there. He has done work onEgypt, state capitalism in Egypt. A book of his published recently byEdicion de Minuit in Paris, part of which appeared in Revolution. Someof it was so obviously Trotskyist that Chen, despite his somewhat partialagreement with parts of it felt that it was too obvious even to printin Revolution. He only comes through Paris occasionaly. His main interestin REvolution is getting his things printed. He is very interested inhaving his things published. He is very cynical about many of the AfricanStates. His article on Senegal appeared recently in Revolution, in French,I think in No. 12. It was written under a pseudonym by him and based onthe UN Economic Commission for Africa research , stuff that he couldn'tsay in his official capacity. (Pseudonym) Like Jalet, yes.He is not overly pro-Chinese. He feels that the Chinese philosophicalposition isn't quite adequate, the ideological model isn'tadequate for under undeveloped countries, certainly for Africa .((Do you know him- How old is he))Yes I know him. He is in his thirties. About 35. Married. He is Egyptian.He is anti-Nasser really. He feels that the Egyptian Communist Partyreally abdicated any constructive role inside Egypt, even from the
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concentration camps where they were held putting out secret clandestine tracts supporting Nasser, which was the craziest thing I've ever heard. Because how they've been liberated in fact the old Communists are now being given very high organizational posts in the new Egyptian Party, and Communism and Marxism is extraneous to Arab socialism but they are very careful people so they use them in there. And the group that are under Soviet influence are perfectly willing to go along with thisf',((Is he pro-anything in Egypt))No, I think that he is sort of resigned to the events of history. He analyzes what he considers state capitalist developments, the rise of a new bureaucratic middle class, the officer class and he tries to show in his writings how the officer class has crushed the old land-owning Vafdist ruling class which had its links with British and French financial interests, and has now consolidated itself in power and there is a certain social mobility, but for them only. In other words, how limited it is and the officer caste certain of its functionaries but still the problem of the masses remains.((Does he concern himself very much with the state of Egypt?))From an academic point of view only. He's more academic. He's not even particularly concerned with revolution. If you want his address...Now who do we have- Marcos Ferrer- That's Colombia. I don't know anything about it. It probably stands for Dr. Leiva Semper of the MONC in Paris. He is a Colombian doctor, the representative in Paris of the MOAC. He is the one who conducted negotiations with Verges for a Spanish edition in Colombia. I assume Marcos Ferrer to be a pseudonym.Exaddy, Ginvalla, next on the list, is a member of the Indin Congress for South Africa. She was a correspondent of *Revolution* in Dar es Salaam and she published a magazine called *Spearhead* until she was expelled from Tanganyika under a cloud and accused of being a Western spy. The accusations were not made openly. She was known to have contacts with the Western West German Embassy. She received West German money from the Carl Ebert Foundation and actually printed West German propaganda in the her magazine. She had gone to West Germany and done this so obviously that she couldn't have been very sophisticated about it because it was just too (open). She was accused, of having told the Soviet Embassy of having offered to carry information for the Soviet Embassy, volunteering as a Communist, a South African Communist, to give then information, two-thirds of which turned out to be totally useless and false, which again might have been to ingratiate herself. The works She was here in London after she was