Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 190]
town, claimed, had losttheir way. They said, no you're a member of the Klan in this town. They wanted to kill him or hold him as hostage.Williams said, "bring these people in my house and you know I won't let them go." He called the Sheriff, and said, "look, I have these people here and my people are very upset and I want you to know that I don't want anything to happen to our people that you have in the jail." The Sheriff immediately called the National Guard, State Troopers and what not. They, couldn't hold out very long. Williams escaped. Julian Mayfield was there, a Negro writer who now lives in Ghana as a result of this. Minnie Mallory, a Negro woman from New York who was there, was later arrested and convicted and sentenced to 16 years in prison for kidnapping. Williams was spirited across the United States-I knew vaguely where he was, but he kept very carefully by Cubans and by Negro groups in contact with the Cubans, to Canada, from Canada he was flown by private plane and-by Castro himself, to Havana, where he is now.On two occasions the FBI came to me asking for information about Williams, and I damn sure wasn't going to give any of what I knew. We had tried to get in touch with Bobby Kennedy himself. I had sent telegrams. I even tried to get a telephone call in. Because I knew what was going to happen on this thing, to get some kind of Federal intervention. It was one of those sickening things.They wanted him out of the way. Even they came to me later-two of the agents came to the FPCC office in New York. They said, "We have 500 agents. We'll get him. He'll never get away." Well, he was away at that point. His aunt died in New York around that time.They went to the funeral parlor where the body was and put a wanted poster on the coffin to see if he would come. Really, they should have been thrown out on their heads, frankly. If it hadn't been Negroes I'm certain they would never have done that sort of thing. The trouble was, the trouble is the whole attitude. Anyhow, as it is, Williams is not a Communist, he's not a Trotskyite. He's a former Marine, who's just had enough. Really, you know. And now he has turned into a world-wide figure/because people like Bobby Kennedy and others could not try to see what could be done about it.. It was no use, though. I mean, it's no use now. I'm certainly and everybody."Well, that's too bad. Just like the case of these boys, Walter Bow, and so on. And they're not the only ones. For every Walter Bow there must be at least a hundred. I must say, I would no more want to live in the States now -- you're going to really see something. I don't really
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Verges wanted somebody from Pakistan on the board. He said "I'm certain that the Mulana Bashani Kahn will agree".((That would be Mulana Abdul Hamid Bashani))That's right. He's sometimes called Kahn as a title of respect.He's a 70 or 80 years old man. He's called the Red Mullah, sort of like the Red Dean of Canterbury.He's the leader of one of the East Pakistan parties. He had been to China and was quite pro-Chinese. He was more than willing. But he had absolutely no contact whatever with the magazine.((Did he come in to replace Hamsa Alavi))Yes.((How long did Hamsa Alavi work with the magazine))You would have to check the issues of the English edition. He was there until slightly before we dropped Rosalind Ainslie. That would be May of 63. right up to spring of 64.((Did Hamsa Alavi do anything actually)) or did he just foundHe got manuscripts and so on. He actually did the work that Phombeah never did. But that was all. And it was sort of *contre coeur* with him because he did not agree with the thing. He had the idea that the magazine was an open forum, rostrum for the debate between all sorts of revolutionary movements. But when it became very obvious that Verges wanted to try, at that time, at least, to stay with the Chinese line, it particularly because of feelings about the situation in Pakistan and he wasn't happy. Also on the question of India, he felt that the Chinese position vis-a-vis India wasn't just, and he didn't like the hook-upt between Pakistani the willing friendship and actual solidarity between Pakistan and China.((So he was through amicably. What is the present relationship betweenAlavi and Verges))I doubt if he has any at all. He is very active here in London with Pakistani groups. He has money. His wife"s family has money, his own family has. It wasn't a question of money for him.((Has he continued to be active in AfroAsian things))He's an academic. The Socialist Register published last year by an article on Imperialism by him. He is active around the London School of Economics. He is known to the academic Left, friends with the boys who do Left Review and so on. His only practical work would be working with Pakistani groups, for instance during the last election
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 192]
the Tories ran in several constituencies Pakistani independent candidatesin the hope of breaking the Labor vote, hoping that the Pakistanis wouldvote for these Pakistani independents. Hansa worked with the Labor Partyin those constituencies, to counter this; and apparently they were quitesuccessful. He has very good connections inside the Labor Party. Andhe does not have very good ties at all with the Communist Party, thoughhe is not by any means anti-Communist. He's a skeptic.(How about Bashani)He has never done anything. Never heard from him except once when hesaid we could put his name on the board. As far as I know there hasnever been any contact.(Do they get paid for this)No.Next is Hassan. He is Amir. He is an official of the UN(with headquarters in Dakar)Economic Commission for Africa, UN economic adviser in Dakar. He has avery high position inthat. He is Egyptian, a full member of the EgyptianCommunist Party with very very pronounced Trotskyist views. That is, hefeels, he has a theory about the role of bureaucracy in under-developedcountries - the progressive and reactionary bureaucracy- fits intogeneral Trotskyist theories but applied there. He has done work onEgypt, state capitalism in Egypt. A book of his published recently byEdicion de Minuit in Paris, part of which appeared in Revolution. Someof it was so obviously Trotskyist that, despite his somewhat partialagreement with parts of it felt that it was too obvious even to printin Revolution. He only comes through Paris occasionaly. His main interestin REvolution is getting his things printed. He is very interested inhaving his things published. He is very cynical about many of the AfricanStates. His article on Senegal appeared recently in Revolution, in French,I think in No. 12. It was written under a pseudonym and based onthe UN Economic Commission for Africa research , stuff that he couldn'tsay in his official capacity. (Pseudonym) Lajalle, yes.He is not overly pro-Chinese. He feels that the Chinese philosophicalposition isn't quite adequate, the ideological model isn'tadequate for under undeveloped countries, certainly for Africa .((Do you know him- How old is he))Yes I know him. He is in his thirties. About 35. Married. He is Egyptian.He is anti-Nasser really. He feels that the Egyptian Communist Party hasreally abdicated any constructive role inside Egypt, even from the
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concentration camps where they were held putting out secret clandestinetracts supporting Nasser, which was the craziest thing I've ever heard.Because how they've been liberated - in fact the old Communists are nowbeing given very high organizational posts in the new Egyptian Party, andCommunism and Marxism is extraneous to Arab socialism but they very useful people to use there. And the group that are underSoviet influence are perfectly willing to go along with thist'.((Is he pro-anything in Egypt))No, I think that he is sort of resigned to the events of history. Heanalyzes what he considers state capitalist developments, the rise of a newbureaucratic middle class, the officer class and he tries to show in hiswritings how the officer class has crushed the old land-owning Wafdistruling class which had its links with British and French financialinterests, and has now consolidated itself in power, and there is a certainsocial mobility, but for them only. In other words, how limited it is andthe officer caste certain of its functionaries but still theproblem of the masses remains.(does he concern himself very much with the state of Egypt?)From an academic point of view only. He's more academic. He's not evenparticularly concerned with revolution. If you want his address...Now who do we have- Marcos Ferrer-That's Colombia. I don't knowanything about it. It probably stands for Dr. Leiva Semper of the MOACIN Paris. He is a Colombian doctor, the representative in Paris of theMOAC. He is the one who conducted negotiations with Verges for a Spanishedition in Colombia. I assume Marcos Ferrer to be a pseudonym.Frene Ginwalla, next on the list, is a member of the India Congressfor South Africa, She was a correspondent of *Revolution in Dar es Salaam*and she published a magazine called *Spearhead* until she was expelled from*Tanganyika* under a cloud and accused of being a Western spy. The accusationswere not made openly. She was known to have contacts with the WesternWest German Embassy. She received West German money from the Carl EbertFoundation and actually printed West German propaganda in the her magazine.She had gone to West Germany and done this so obviously that she couldn't have been very sophisticated about it because it was just too(open). She was accused, of having told the Soviet Embassy of having offeredto carry information for the Soviet Embassy, volunteering as a Communista South African Communist, to give them information, two-thirds of whichturned out to be totally useless and false, which again might have been toingratiate herself. She was here in London after she was
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expelled, I'm not certain of the exact dates. She was also known to have slept around with almost every minister of the Tanganyikan government including Julius Nyerere. This is one of the reasons why there was so much hushhush about her, that she had obviously gotten a lot of information out of these fellows. She was very close to Oscar Gambona and she claimed that Oscar Bambona was going to get her back into the Foreign Ministry.She was just Revolution's correspondent there. She did practically nothing. When she got out, she managed to keep her little office going. They didn't seize anything, and she turned over themailing list of her *Spearhead* magazine to *Revolution*. Verges had paid her £1000 deposit so she could do some work but she really didn't do anything, but she unlike Rosalind Ainslie, turned over the unspent portion of that to Verges when she came to London.and she wasn't interested really in continuing her work with *Revolution*. Being Indian of course posed a problem with any for her with anything to do with the Chinese. She was very close to the Indian community, as anyone who looks through that mailing list will see we have lots of missionary Indian businessness, and so forth in East Africa, who were taking subscriptions to the magazine more or less out of friendship and solidarity with another Indian. They didn't caremuch whether she was a Communist or not.She was supposed to have been the mistress of Dr. Dadu. At least they say she slept with Dr. Dadu and they had a very close relationships to him. Dr. Dadu is the president of the Indian Congress for South Africa and a member of the Communist Party/ of South Africa, a very important members. BBcause Inften the Indians have holdings the Indian communiss has holdings up and down East Africa, Mozambique as well, their role in the liberation struggle is very equivocal.Obviously the Africans want to go ahead while the Laaánds Indians are thinking - well-alpe Africanization meant to the Tai Indians The English used then as a sort of buffer,, preferred to bring an Indian clerk to East Africa rather than to train an African. That was a typical colonial maneuver but now it has put the Indians in a situation historically which is untenable, for a long period. You know people talk about multi-racial states but in East Africa it is a joke. It won't hold up. I don't think it will, anyway.
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# The Indian Congress of South Africa is related to the African National Congress, the Colored people's congress, all of this in a so-called Congress Alliance. She had contacts with the Africand- the ANT people. the ANC people here in London. They were suspicious of her as well. But she managed somehow to get back iny she was ill, she was in hospital Shevas hurtin an auto accident, and she had to have a very complicated bone operation That put her out of action for some time.I don't know, but I heard that she is now back in Tanganyika. She may well be. She has quite a bit of money; her family has money. Of course the Indians do have money. She did very little for the magazine. She occasionally told me about people in the ANC who might do something for the magazine. But most of the people she told me abut were members of the South African Communist Party. That party has taken a pro-Moscow stand and most of its people don't want to do anything for Revolution, though we did have articles by Bryan Bunk another South African Communist. That was before their party took their stand on the Sino-Soviet conflict. And there is a struggle going on right now inside of the ANC.That's a long complicated thing. That has nothing to do with Revolutin.(On my list here we have Diallo))Diallo is an adviser of the President of Mali-whatie-bio nana-Modewa Keida...Married to a French woman, ix Leftist, he knows Verges through friendship and offered to help. He put him in contact with who is Minister of Information, who is very, very pro-Chinese.(In Mali)Yes. When Chou en Lai visited Mali, you recalls that he got quite committed. There were some gratuitous, open handed #lapsThere's nothing very much. He just knew him.This is again-one-of--Verges-attempts to have a finger in another African -country(Verges)I didn't mention, with Phongbeah, one of the reasons that he kept phombeah was phombeah's connection with Odinga, 14 in Kenya. Phombeah at one time had hoped to be made the secretary of this new Lumumba Institute there, a ia Nairobi. Verges, odd as it may seen, had at one time, proposed himself as a sort of security adviserato Odinga. We felt that he continued to pay Dennis Phombeah for doing nothing mainly to keep a line of communication open to Odinga. He had met Odinga but got nowhere with him. In Algiers he was afraidatat Le Chinois
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# President of Mali,Keita. Married to a French woman. Leftist.He knows Verges through friendship and offered to help. He put him in contact with a man by the name of Mogotogo (?)who is Minister of Information, who is very very pro-Chinesey in Mali.And when Chou en Lai visited Mali you recall that he got quite a committed welcome in Mali. And there were some gratuitous open-handed slaps the Russians made. Didn't have to be made but were.((How did Verges and Diallo get together))I don't know. He had known him for a considerable time. There is nothing very much. This is again one of Verges's attempts to have a finger in another African country. One of the reasons that he kept Phombeah was Phombeah's connection with Odinga.If in Algiers he was referred to as Le Chinois, I don't think Odinga would accept him.This is a real problem. He says, "well, we colored people and so forth" and it is true that he is part - he's Eurasian, but it is very hard for Africans to accept that. They just put him down as Chinese.I don't know very much about Gama Diallo. He played very little role in the Magazine except that he was a contact inside of Mali. He came to France early last year, the spring of last year, with his wife. He went to Vichy for his health and drank the waters for two or three weeks and he saw Verges. Verges had ideas, had mentioned to Chen that if he couldn't keep the magazine going that he might go to Mali. Chen was going to be sent off to wherever, Viriato da Cruz of the Angolan Federation of Liberation, as adviser, and I was going to be sent to Indonesia for the Afro-Asian Journalists. That was how he was going to take care of everybody.(How about Castro Da Silva)Castro Da Silva is the pseudonym used for Viriato da Cruz, formerly of the MPLA, and now of the UPA. He is a poet, again, late thirties, married, has a child and is based are or less in Algiers. He has virtually no money at all. He has a small group which went into the UPA.Holden Roberto, the head of the UPA is very suspicious of him, but nevertheless he needs him. He needs the Left. He has been to China and this give him a sort of gives the Chinese a guarantee, but on the other hand the Chinese didn't even want to give Viriato money to transfer
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himself from Algiers to Brazzaville. And he was threatened by the MPLApeople, who are of course Sovietbacked to the hilt, in fact more soDr. Neto, *appartially* more than ever now. And the Algésians, Ben Bella,who had supported the MPLA up until the great fiasco when people discoveredthat they didn't have what they claimed to have-didnt have the infuence to havegiven their support to the UPA. Nevertheless, the MPLA people stillremain and they are promising to reform and really carry out thingsideologicallyI think that logically the MPLA is much more congenial to the Algeriansand to all of thehard revolutionary line, people.Holden Roberto is considered to be an American agent pure and simpleand always has been. In actual fact, he received a lot of money throughvarious Protestant missionary groups, American Protestant missionary groups.And he himself is a Christian Protestant. These tie-ups have helped theRightists to back him. He did go off to China, made some Tailuw landwhich the Chinese were pleased with.The Chinese haven't made any real decisive choice between the MPLA and theUPA. They're just waiting to see who is going to be able to produce.((What about da Cruz): What is his function),He has no function except to write articles about Angola, which hehas done, one of which he signed with his own name. He has very littlemoney and he hoped that Verges would be able to smooth the way with theI understand,Chinese, but alas! poor fellow, he learnt to his horror that Verges presumedwas by no means the Chinese agent that he served him to be. I understandthat he has virtually retired from politics . He is a poet. And he'd muchrather be a poet than anything else. He told me on several occasions thatin Paris when he came to my house there for dinner that he wished he could reallyget out of the whole thing, what was he going to do, He didn't have apassport, he had all these people sort of pushing him ininto this. He didn't have any money. He didn't know what to do.((He lives in Paris))No, he lives in Algiers. He is still in Algiers to, best of my knowledge,He is one of the people in Algiers I would see. If I were to go toAlgiers I would look him up. He's not terribly dynamic butevents threw him up into a leading position and he sort of stuckthere and doesn't know how to get out. The Chinese Haven't given himthe all-out support that he had hoped for((Neither have they turned him down))No.
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(Amilcar Cabrera))That was a name used, not a pseudonym, a false name. It doesn't represent anyone, it represents the FALN of Venezuela in Europe. They have a bureau in France. I didn't really know them. I knew there were several people. One of them a graphic artist, whose drawings were printed in Revolution. They brought the things to him. They are authentic.Because when Verges had a young French boy traveling through Latin America he went to Venezuela. They got him into the guerillas. They got him all around. We had some very authentic short-hand reports. So whoever they are they are authentic. They were very, very cautious, probably suspicious of me because I was an American, so I never had any real conversation with them.(do you known anything about who Verges's link to them was))(do you know if he still has them)I know this, they asked him to remove the name Amilcar Cabrera and it has been removed, because it was identified with them. To then put in a note in the twelfth French edition that in the future he would receive an article from the information department of the FALN. They'd be foolish not to send material, but they didn't want to be identified with the editorial policy of the magazine. This many reflect various tendencies inside of the FALN which I have read about. I don't know anything first-hand that they split between a hard line, those who want to continue the real struggle and the sabotage struggle and those who want to look for possible negotiated solutions. One group that is a little more pro-Chinese.In any case these people did represent the FALN, there is no doubt about it. I didn't know any of them. They never had any dealings with me.((Patricia Magowan))I know very little about her. She did this book on Portugal. She was connected with the - she has ties with the British Communist Party but also with Trotskyists. She was the one who found Rosalind Ainslie to work here in London for the magazine. She is the mistress of a man named Carlos((Lanca?))I'm not certain. That might be it. He is a European born in Mazambique, a Portuguese, who has been kept going by various African movements for years because he represents (laughing) te what the French call an interlocateur, when they want to call him out
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obviously Neto does xxxx have some American support as well or had some American support. His father did, I think.(Do you know Michael Tabasa)No, never heard of him.((We come to Maspero))Maspero is just a third-generation French elite intellectual who has a little bit of money, runs a publishing house, and magazine, and who is extremely non-committed in his Left commitment. In other words he is a fortist but he is not a member of any party and is not really involved in active politics. His magazine more and more is taken over by Trotskyists That was not always the case at present. He came really to the fore with the Algerian War, Considering the failure of the French Communist Party to do anything about intellectuals, the the Algerian question, it was the Loft Intellectuals who were out of the party who responded, who made up the Jensen network, the support network for the the FLM underground in France, and who did the propaganda work and who gave the support. Is the FLM had French support it was among these people, not among the Communist party.((Verges consistent efforts to))Vean Yes.To wand away authors (from Maspero). Hassan Riab wrote for his.Chalion, whom he got for Revolution Africaine wrote for him and now is back again working for him, writing for hima. Casserl also. Chen also. Almost everyons. Even I knew him because he published student material and he used to things in the States and I had correspondence and I used to send hin material that we had.(The competition between Verges and Maspero- was this a personal as opposed to ideological competition)No it was personal. There is very littéè ideological about Verges.Verges is an extremely heady, personal person. He is generous in many ways but even his generosity is personally. He is either for you. He is a grand patron. He is extremely generous with money when he has it, He throws it around. You could never go anywhere with Verges that he doesn't xxxx want to pay. Then we traveled it was most times first class, sexxxxanthingxsisex on a plane. He has a deep-seated desire to be big (he is a small man, he is short) to be talked about.He wants publicity. He wants to be known. He doesn't have any real commit- ments, I don't think, that are terribly deep. And I'm certain that if he were sure of money from the other side, but nevertheless so that his name would stay big, I'll bet he'd. He wants money not for himselfs but for prestige After all Verges's father was the founder of the Communist Party-