Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
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# 14-00000That's why I'd like to know/ I don't know what really, for instance - I've got a possibility - although it's a very slim one- just over across the street here. The Indonesian press office needs somebody. But I don't know. These are little things. Pan African Congress- South Africa, the PAC, they came to see me to know if I could help them a little here in London, in setting up their offices and handling their press campaign. Of course they haven't real money.(That wasn't so appealing on that ground)No, that wasn't so appealing on that score. And then also, they don't have a policy. They're sort of wavering between a policy which means telling one thing to the Congress for Cultural Freedom and telling another to the Chinese in Peking, which any nationalist group has to do, obviously. It's extremely difficult to get any kind of a straight answer even inside the organization. And they are going through a period of reorganization, after some highly scandalous, not political offense, but just plain misappropriation of funds, the usual thing that happens in many, many African organizations, It's incredible (laughs). But I think the people here in London, at least on the surface, are somewhat more honest.(Basically, you're not interested _per se_, in staying in the same milieu.)No, no. But I'm not interested _per se_, let's say in becoming a sort of professional anti-Communist. That isn't-(Not either way- either a professional anti-Communist or a professional revolutionist-)(laughs) No, no.No. The two careers. Frankly, I do have a feeling, like Walter Bow; I know I feel very bad about someone I know his problems. Only I don't know how the hell to solve them and what interests me is to see- again it is always a problem- what the US government do - what the people will do now that they've got Walter Bow. To a certain extent I'm certain it was provocation, though Walter was game for anything, if you had gone to him and proposed to shoot the President, he would have said yes. Well, he would have thought about it anyway, and probably would have agreed. He would probably suggest that you'd have to fight the President and the Supreme Court along with it, you know. And he's not wild. He's very sensible, moderate boy, except that he has such a it's not a chip on his shoulder, he's got half of the forest, a redwood on his shoulder. He comes from, the paper say, Philadelphia; he doesn't, he comes from Camden, New Jersey. I remember when he was playing jazz as a kid. I met him through this fellow in the Department of Agriculture
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I told you about, Haggard. He was a very good friend of his as well.Poor he must be very nervous, down there in Agricultre, because he's known me personally, he's known Walter personally, They'll think he had some very strange friends.Anyway, I'm certainly you asked me for some information which I'm perfectly willing to give you. And if you had come along a long time ago and asked, in paris, I probably would have given the same information. The point was that nobody seemed to want to know. I was talking to an American newsman-- I was wasn't running around peddling information, either- but I talked to people, sometimes saying just the opposite of what Vorges was saying. He never really protested too much about this. He pretended that what he was doing was fairly on the level but it was fairly obvious that it wasn't. Anyway, I- what I want to know, if possible, in a relatively short period of time... I've got to make up my mind what I'm going to do. I don't know how I'm going to do anything, in fact,But I do not intend, even for economic reasons, to do something which I think is absolutely dishonest, in the sense of writing an article, if someone asked me to write an article about Communist attractions for African students inFrance- in fact the Communist Party has very little for African students in France. It's just the opposite. The Fay - the association for African students, is very resentful of what they consider and they would only love to be enticed and wooed. But this American had an idea which was based on some, on his own mythology actually, of beautiful French white girls being sent to lure these simple-minded boys. In actual fact that's not true at all. I'm perfectly well aware that people have writtenThe articles which bear no relation to reality, they think of what the hell, they want this sort of tising, they pay for it. The Reader's Digest et one time was a regular market for that sort of thing.But what's the point. It isn't true and even though it might-'it isn't even good propaganda, in the long run., a titillation sex value, especially the racial thing with sex thrown in- -(What about your wife?)Well, my wife, doesn't know - first of all, she knows only once that I was seeing you, and she would highly disapprove of it. Not because my wife is a has ever been a member of any party, (including the Communist party, it's just that she would feel that that would be a highly
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 144]
the Encounter thing. She doesn't really like it! I hate to *xxxxxxxx*Revolution and allShe can accept that.I don't see any reason not to.The fact is, the reason we have our financial problem, to a certain extent, butis because her family is by no means poor/ My brother-in-law, who has carried us for months, has to pay rent, right this week, and she has practically told him we didn't want any money. So now, there I am; you know. This has caused- I respect, I know what her problem is- very often children that come from very wealthy homes-and-her family-She comes from the poorest branch of her family, which is quite wealthy in this country. It's an Anglo-Jewish family, has a sort of monopoly on kosher food, prepared kosher food here, sort of like a Manischevitz operation- or racket. One of the relatives is- they're all in business.Her brother, one brother, is constantly having business failures.He's a very nice fellow, and all, but at one point he made phonographs, now the last thing, he made tape recorders, a little transistor tape recorder, but that's just flopped too. The other brother is a chartered accountant. He has his own firms in the City, which does quite well. He's married.She gets along very poorly with him. And while I was away, unfortunately relations deteriorated to such a point that I don't know quite how I'm going to.She's happy that she's got this job in the Indonesian Embassy. The only thing she's not happy about is the salary but she likes the job.It's not serious. The Indonesians spend most of the time telling her stories about people.I take a job this thing in the Indonesian Embassy, practically, in a state of war with Indonesia. Although my wife is English that doesn't give me an automatic right to stay in England, not that I'm terribly (eager) to in England. I would much rather be some place on the Continent. I would much rather, for instance..take a job with some sort of a *bureau* - Obviously that's out of the question, I could never get a security clearance, but I think a job with some sort of international organization- UN, in Paris, Rome, or Geneva, which would be for me, information- I'd be quite happy at that. As for working for an American outfit, I can't see much possibility either, except this sort of free lance business, which could perhaps be extended that I would certainly like, but is precarious when you have-kids, and then what I feel pretty solid commitments here and then 3000 miles of water in between
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(Let me see what I can find out. soon as I can. . . nowquestions and antvers. Who invited Verges to Algeria in 63)He didn't go to Algeria in 63. He went to China. He was already inAlgiers. He was in Algiers from the past point of independence, that waswith the clandestine group, that is,in July of 62.And Verges arrived there clandestinely that is, BenBella, Khider, Bitat, I suppose in October or Noenber of 62. He was invitedto China in March of 1963.((How invited?))The first time he went as the Director of Revolution Africaine andhe met with Djamila Bouhired, the heroine of the Algerian War,and seems an enormous amount of publicity in the Chinese press wasgiven to her. They in fact had a book about her. She was wellknown for her part in the Algerian war and in this is how he gotthe interview with Kao, ashe was an official Algerian representative, the Director of Publicationssponsored by the Political Bureau of the FLN, and, I think it was, TheCommittee (of) Foreign Relations, something like that that handledthe visit.((When did he marry Djamila)) in MoroccoNobody knows. Nodoby knows whether they are really married. Thisis again as one of the things that he loves to keep a mystery. It is rumored,it has been said by a lot ofpeople that he has amarvelous marriage we know he was converted to Islam. During the war, theof theAlgerian War, he used a code name/MANSOUR for his contactswithin the Front. After he came to Algeria, apparently he became a Moslen.and became J. M. Verges, Jacques Mansour Verges. Now he becomes MansourVerges, then it becomes J. N. (Referring to the magazine file)((When he went to China..))Here is back already. It must be about the 30th of March. It must be,because he and Djamila and my wife and I and our children left Algeriaon the same plane for Paris when we left Algiers definitively, hechanging planes in Paris for Moscow, and I going a day or so later to Geneva.,and not to Geneva, Lausanne.(Checking on name) uses J. M. all the way through. This was only at theof his.This is the last issue, there are sixteen issues here.He knew that he was under pressure and he tried to protect
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put himself. He Djamila along with him and himself as aComité de Direction Number 1 and 3 to could protect him from the wrath of Ben Bella but it didn't work.(How long- we wont say when they got married-)It must have happened in the month right after independence. That's what I think. You see she started beer held in prison, in France, she'd been sentenced to death and he had won her well, he didn't win anything but he managed to keep her from being executed, He became extremely close toher. Not only in sexual life. And this is very strange, his sexual life. I don't know if he has one, in fact. He has a French wife and the French wife has a child, a boy about 12-14 years old and he still is married to the French wife.By becoming a Moslem he could take a second wife.((Did he live with her with Djamila))In Algeria Never, really. he had his own place and she lived with her family.When she comes to Paris she stays with him and actually they sleep in the same bed. But I dont think that- it's a sort of - a very curious relation it seems to me. Lezat.((If they were married, they were married when they went to China))Yes. I don't know about how the Chinese regarded it. They never refer to her as his wife. But that is done very often. He is very close to her family, her brothers. One is in Czechoslovakia,the other one was in Leningrad, I think, going to school. And it was Verges who arranged for transfers of money. Her uncle is head of the family. Her father is a terrible alcoholic and skirt chaser who has no respect from his children, The father came to Paris and Lausanne one and caused us a great deal of difficulty (laughing). Anyway, Verges has family connections there. This marriage, that was supposed to have taken place, who saw it I don't know. Even the father doesn't know.He said "Well, if she's married to him, why doesn't she say it.Why doesn't she tell even me."He was never really accepted as a Moslem in Algiers. People thought, you know, you don't take a man a man who is a Communist or even an ex-Communist, of his kind, he wasn't a member of the Communist Party, and convert him into a Moslem just like that. And yet there are certain characteristics of his behavior which are very strange to explain. One would say he did it for expediency, like going along with Ramadan, for instance, this is by no means pleasant, fasting- And even in Paris, he would fast, when it was Ramadan, He used to drink rather heavily, I'm told. He no longer touches any kind of alcohol. And this he does all the time, whether there are Algerians around or not.
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optics,And his perspective toward-the Algerians. He was always talking of going back to Algiers, going to shoot Gerard Chalion just because Chalion had double-crossed him with the staff. He thought, well, since I have these Europeans they won't be able to take over the magazine, so quickly? He's -very clever. He surrounds himself with people who are in a weaker position than he. Kiers,in other words, a defense.have to be very strong willed. the things that took place in Algeria, other side,But Chalion made a deal with the Ben Bella people and kept the entire staff on.(Revolution in Switz or Pa ris)Once he saw that the old charges against him on account of the Algerian War would not be that the French Government had forgotten all this, that the Ministry of Justice had no intention of prosecuting not only him, but Francis was sitting there. He was under sentence of death. And Jean, no one had ever bothered.tkar.He claimed he had contact with somebby in Campidan's officeHe had- well the only person who worked with the magazine was somebody in the Ministry of Finance who writes under the name of Jalet. He does the economic section. I forget his real name-- maybe Roget. He handled Common Market things. That's why his for Revolution always deal with the Common Market. Maybe he writes one paper for the Ministry and another for Revolution.(How long did stay in Switz land)He never really stayed in at all. He just came through there and stayed a few days, there. And he was traveling on an Algerian diplomatic passport. He still has one. I don't know how he went to Japan, because he had been very reluctant to reply to the demand- the request, for renewal of his ordinary French passport. It was quite possible to have dual nationalisty- French- Algiers. I don't know whether the Algierians (recognize) this. I think that he didn't have a normal Algierian passport, that he only had a diplomatic one, which should, I think, have been cancelled once he ceased to have any thing to do with the government. So he didn't want to travel on it. He wanted to come to London on several occasions but he didn't dare to try his Algerian passport He could travel around much of Western Europe with his expired French passport. Most European passports are considered valid for five years after the date of expiration
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You don't really need it anyway, just an identification--- will take an expired passport in Common Market countries, up to five years.How he got to Japan I don't know. He may have finally applied for a French passport. I thought that he still wanted to maintain the fiction of his Algerian nationality, by not making any request for French passport. In Japan he was called the Delegate from the Union(?)and no mention was made of Revolution. There has never been, to the best of my knowledge and the knowledge of Andersson any mention in any Chinese publication whatsoever of Revolution, and they have mentioned all sorts of two-bit publications that they have financed lock, stock and barrel. And yet the Chinese did purchase it. I understand they do no longer purchase it any more and according to Andersson who had contact all desurtaiso had contact between the Chinese Embassy- and Verges in Paris had elared.((when))As of last month.((when they samed-ceased purchasing))According to Andersson. He says he has heard it from other people. He doesn't know from Chinese sources. He did tell the truth (was) in Berne, I had written a letter to the *China Quarterly* about the article by Fuks on Verges, refuting what Feito said, Asking what he thought of that. And he replied that they had no objection but they thought it was about time that somebody ended the fiction... that they thought *Revolution* was extremely embarrassing to them.* ((How long did the Eng lang edition stay with Andersson))The Eng lang edition was produced in Switz for the first year, the first twelve issues, and entire was printed in Switzerland on the press of this Mr. Gonguin in Montreux. And Gonguin was introduced to Verges by Andersson. Andersson paid him and so forth.Bat Andersson didn't have any official connection with *Revolution* as of Now. I think, December, of 63. I went back and forth and Strelkof, who did the layout and art work, when went back and forth to Lausanne and saw almost every months, once or twice a month. Gonguin/every months, from Paris. But once I left Paris, the bank account was closed down - I mean, shortly thereafter, by Kissel who came in behind Andersson's back and closed the account at the *Union des Banques Suisses*.((That ended the Swiss production))No, the Swiss production continued, but Andersson had nothing to do with it from that point. The twelve issues of that year were printed there.
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He represents nothing. He's a sort of hopeless person. She's a very dynamic woman. Verges claimed that she had become a police informer, for the Algerian police, and that she talked to very opposite groups and to occasionally, Skaxzsked to Mamani of the Salava gruix party in Algiers.But she no longer has anything to do with Revolution Africaine. I don't know what she is going. She wouldn't have anything to do with Verges after the moment that she refused to go to Lausanne. You soo horas((Why))Why did she refuse to go? Well, she couldn't leave Carlosy by himself. God knows what would happen to him. Secondly, she hadoto wanted to be all the time in Algiers. She wasnt inersite interested in running a magazine in Switzerland, the magazineinterest was secondary to her.There was another Portuguese-speaking person in Algiers. That was a man by the name of Braganza. Braganza is a Goan a/Goan who has lost his reason for beingwith the end of the Portuguese colonial rule in Goa, he should have gone it back! But with he had been a Goan revolutionary with the Portuguese opposition. For years he has been in Rabat hooked up to the, at that time it was the CONCP, Conference t Nationaliste des Colonies Portuguese, which grouped together the Filano what later came to be the Falimo and the MPLA. It was part of the hard line countriesThere was another one elsewhere which was soft line. Braganza was also sort of adviser to the magazine, Revolution Africaine o and questions of India and so on. He stayed on and worked with Mohammed Harbi and came to London.2 (Did he have anything to do with Patricia Macgowan)Yes. They had been together in Rabat.((Did he have anything to do with Carlos)Yes. It's all the same crowd. But Carlos was waiting for destiny to call him and Braganza had already lost his chance. The Indians had got ins They'd liberated Goa, so what next, you know. Go back to India. He obviously wasn't going to go back .He was living too well, as it was. And in Goa, nobody knew him in Goa. He was a Goan educated in Portugal. One of these people really without a real national identity. He knew that he wasn't Portuguese and had this feeling of alienation from Portugal, which made him like most for the colonials students there-- the MPLA really started in Portugal- made him an oppositionist. He didn't have enough roots with the homeland. So he's just sort pof fof floating around. His wife is a school teacher. He speaks excellent French. He was working for Revolution Africaine. I don't know if he still is. I'a certain he'll find something to do. He'll never go back to Goa.
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((This points up the need for a continuing revolution, then the revolution is completed))Yes. You don't have jobs unless you're in the government. And that's a problem, too. In his case, he wasn't even a real revolutionary, just never really did much,a bureaucrat in Rabat and other places.(Nor did Macgowan get involved with Verges))That I don't know. I don't know how he knew her in the beginning, I imagine he met her in Rabat. He used to go to Morocco quite often and had contact with all the African, the race people there. I suspect that's were he met her.(How much were those guys) So forNow you've got Harbi. He was the person who replaced Verges. He's out now, but I'm told by Andersson, who knowshas his ear to the ground in Algiers as well as in Switzerland, that Harbi is in a very good position. He is one of the leading advisers to Ben Bella, represents the Left position. He's a Trotskyist, or a Trotskyist sympathiser without any formal organizationals ties. He is very close to the Pablo range.That's Michel Baptis. He's Pablo, we could'nt have overlooked him,he's a feature of Algiers life. He played an extremely importat role in the agrarian reform, in, the type of agrarian reform that was going to be carried out. He came down on the Yugoslav model, that is collectives which are privately owned by the collectives and run on the profit model, that is the profitbasis.Harbi they were all inside of this Bureau des Biens Vacants then which became the Bureau of the Socialist Sector. I once did an article for the Monthly Review, so I know all about how it operated. What really happened was that the Europeans fled just before just after Independence, had rather should have, considering what they had done. But they expected a blood bath. The blood bath never took place. It was an incredible.That was one of the most incredible things to me in Algeria was that the Algerians didn't Because the stories were horrifying. You know what happened. A month or so before, they were just shooting everybody on the street, trying to provoke then, and the discipline of the FLN was incredible. Nobody would shoot back, no matter what they did. So they fled and they left all their these farms.It was a question of ploughing and seeding. There is only a certain time of year that you have to do this. This had to be organized and it was organized almost spontaneously locally. And thenThis was sort of institutionalized later, afterwas an accomplished fact. They want some sort of a socialist system of agriculture. They