Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 151]
didn't know how and the institutionalizing of it was really directed bythese Trotskyists. There was Pablo, Harbi, a French lawyer named Matthieufrom Grenoble who had been involved with the FLN, and he begane sort oflegal adviser of *Biens Vacants*, which was vaguely under the jurisdiction ofthe Ministry of Agriculture which was at that time under Omar Usganwho is now Minister of State, and Director of *Revolution Africains* atpresent. He replaced Harbi.Harbi is deeply resented by the army elements which are pro-Egyptian. However, the Army, despite its religious inclination hadits socialist bias and would like to see more centralization, more on anEgyptian model. In other words, they would like to see much more controlfrom the center than this confused type of regional or local control.They feel that in the long run the business of the private collectiveownership is going to cause trouble. It's all right if it is a richone, but what happens if it's a poor one. You don't split profit, yousplit a deficit. Obviously, according to the Yugoslav model, the stateintervenes. The State taxes the rich ones and then distributes subsidiesto the poor ones, but this a debate that is still going on in Algeria,Curiously enough these Trotskyists have been in contact, very close contactwith the Yugoslavs. As you recall, the campaign, the so-called campagnede labeur, the ploughing, was made possible only by the delivery of 563Yugoslav tractors which turned out to the great deception of some of theAlgerians not to be Yugoslav but to be American tractors put togetherin Yugoslavia under license.(This is getting us a little bit far afield)This is Harbi and this is the group. Harbi represents the leading spokesmen of this sort of Trotskyist-leaning Left group, and his post isstill very high, even though he is no longer Director.(When was he dropped)I think last summer. I'm not certain. With Usgan it has become muchmore the word Socialism appears in Arabic because itis felt that Socialism in French doesn't have the same meaning as it hasin Arabic. It's very silly, represents the very muddled mindthat Usgan has. He is very much split between his religious inclinations.Usgan is a full member of the Communist party of Algeria buthe left for nationalist reasons when they refused to support the rebellion, andjoined the FLN. His wife is supposed to be fanatically religious and hasmade him more religious than he was.
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((Curious mix-up - this religion and politics.)Returning to our first subject, Strelkoff. Is he a practicing Jew?))No.(Just an ethnic Jew))Yes.((Next on the list here is Robert Williams, Whoever made this up calls him an American in Peking.)He's in Havana. He was in Peking recently and he may still be there, for that matter. He went on a second trip to the Far East, he was in one of the countries that had a celebration. I think he was in Hanoi, if I'm not mistaken. He was in Asia. He may still be there.Robert Williams is a Negro, former President of the Union County North Carolina branch of the NAACP, who had a hell of a battle on his hands against the local Kuklus Klan and discovered the best way to deal with the KuKlux Klan was to shoot back at them. And it worked. They never had seen it, in that part of the south, anyway, the small towns of the South. Up until recently there's been sort of gentlemen's agreement in the south that the Negro civil rights groups would go into the big cities, where they would be reasonably protected. But they had to leave them much. Williams rural areas alone because they couldn't expect of course, was a great embarrassment to everybody, there is no doubt,NAACPand they were on his back. He got no sympathy from the leadership. THE He first came to national prominence after a case of obvious injustice where a white man done something to a Negro woman and a jury had thrown it out. He said.well if we can't get justice in the courts we'll have to take justice in our own hands." But even the fact that older, more Negroes would fight back got the old conservative Negro leaders very upset. He was immediately, People came to his support, particularly the Trotskyites, not the Communists, came in, and tried to give him The Trotskyxites take him over. They did some support. There had been a case before, another case, locally called the Kissing case. Two Negro boys, you may have heard of it, were sentenced to indefinite terms in prison for having kissed a six-year-old white girl. He was involvedin that and again, it was the Trotskyites who came to his support with other Liberal groups.In terms of organizational support it was the Trotskyites. I heard of him at the time I was in CBS and I thought that it was very understandable and sent him a message of support. I met him at the time of the NAACP Conference in New York in 1959 and when the FPCC was formed he was among the eight Negroes who were among the 30 founding members, to the great shock of
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 153]
# 14-00000of the Communist Party of the United States, which did not particularly approve of seeing the two issues mixed, Cuba and Negroes.Williams, very volatile, a very determined person, on a local level, has no ability whatsoever on a national level. He has become a symbol now to Negro youth in particular, as a Negro who is not an Uncle Tom, who will fight. We knew what was coming in the summer of 61, perhaps it was before obviously embarrassment, for the national executive of the NAACP, embarrassment for the Justice Department, and more than embarrassment, Terry Sanford, who was the Governor, and who told him, "I wish you were dead. Period." Finally, by one of these flukes of fate, there was demonstration over a swimming pool. They didn't want to integrate the pool. They just wanted to swim in it.But the local people said they didn't want to do that because they would have to change the water, and it would take too much time to change the water after Negroes swam in the water. So they had some demonstrations.Williams was almost murdered on one of these occasions. The demostrations were getting pretty violent. And then King sent in some Freedom Riders who were going to show them how non-violence was going to work in this town. They decided to make an example. So Williams said, "I'm going to get out of this. I don't want anything to do with your non-violence. But you go ahead and I'll see what happens."Well the non-violent demonstration became even more violent. There were people shots. There were arrests. There was an English girl who now figures here in the British Trotskyist pasty, who was over there. People were coming from all over, reports in the European press. The rumor went around-Williams now had nothing to do with this. He was just sort of staying there saying well you see where non-violence gets you-- but there was a report that they were going to lynch the people who had been arrested. As often happens in this type of thing the Negroes and whites, outside whites who were involved, really came in for a hall of a beating, and as in the Philadelphia, Mississippi, case, they have been killed. Williams was more or less a victim of the mob in the Negro community which said "we've got to do something. We've got to free these people, get them out of jail."He had arms, including some machine guns, which had been purchased in New York and sent down there. They didn't use then because they got scared, but they had arms. The community was armed. The people, out in the street in front of his house, when a car with a white couple, came down the road, It was surrounded and they were told to get out. The crowd wanted to string them up right there. This man came from a neighboring
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"town, claimed, had losttheir way. They said, no you're a member of theKlan is this town. They wanted to kill him/ or hold him as hostage.Williams said, "bring these people in my house and you know I won't letthem go." He called the Sheriff, and said, "Look, I have these people hereand my people are very upset and I want you to know that I don't wantanything to happen to our people that you have in the jail." TheSheriff immediately called the National Guard, State Troopers and whatnot. They couldn't hold out very long. Williams escaped. Julian Mayfieldwas there, a Negro writer who now lives in Ghana as a result of this.Minnie a Negro woman from New York who was there;Botha Mallory, was later arrested and convicted and sentenced toand the case is on appeal now. Williams was16 years in prison for kidnapping,.spirited across the United States-I knew vaguely where he was, buthe kept very carefully by Cubans and by Negro groups in contact with theCubans, to Canada, from Canada he was flown by private plane and byCastro himself, to Havana, where he is now.On two occasions the FBI came to me asking for information aboutWilliams, and I damn sure wasn't going to give any of what Iknew. We had tried to get in touch with Bobby Kennedy himself. I hadsent telegrams. I even tried to get a telephone call in. Because Iknew what was going to happen on this thing, to get some kind of Federalintervention. It was one of those sickening things.They wanted him out of the way. Even they came to me later-two of the agents came to the FPCC office in New York. They said, "We have500 agents. We'll get him. He'll never get away." Well, he was away atthat point. His aunt died in New York around that time.They went to the funeral parlor where the body was and put a wantedposter on the coffin to see if he would come. Really, they should havebeen thrown on their heads, frankly. If it hadn't been Negroes I'mcertain they would never have done that sort of thing. The trouble was the whole attitude.Anyhow, as it is, Williams is not a Communist, he's not aTrotskyite. He's a former Marine, who's just had enough. Really, youknow. And now he has turned into a world-wide figure/because people likeBobby Kennedy and others could not just/try to see what could be done aboutit. It was no use, though. I mean, it's no use now.I'm certainly and everybody.Well, that's too bad. Just like the case of these boys, Walter Bow, andso on. And they're not the only ones. for every Walter Bow theremust be at least a hundred. I must say, I would no more want to live inthe States now - you're going to really see something. I don't really
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#The twelve issues-vere only 200 copies maximuия, кIt was still printed until No. 12, the-end-of-the-year.. the end of that first year. The twelfth issues were printed there. The twelfth issue was never distributed. only 200, or 366 copies maximus. I still have some. Those are the ones I sold for $10.00 a book. The American libraries are desperate to complete their sets. It was never distributed because Verges hadn't paid Genguin the money that he promised and I, while the copies were sitting there waiting for some/other-financial arrangement the Swiss/finally took action and seized then. Actually the seizure was more "platonic" but they just wanted to said you can't send out anything. I understand Gonguin had 50 copies, of every issue, that he had salted away, He knew he could sell them. I think he could sell them in the States university libraries, you know,American Libraries are extremely political files. Revolution became a sort of it was the American press, Revolution had a success, it came from the American press, not the French press, or the British press, the American press, It was really fortuitous but I many pinalisto that you can't blame them - seeing this move to Paris, a new magazine with a pro-Chinese line which really was-a pro-Chinese line, coming out at the same time as French recognition of China, So obviously you write things about a new twentieth century Europe, Verges, the Chinese top man in Europe, and this that and the other. And that was what started it' We had three articles, I believe, in the Christian Science Monitor, and of them had the address in. Right nashraddie then the letters came in, All sorts of people wanted them. the subscriptions came in. A subscription agency in the United States sav it, and and started taking orders from university libraries.The State Department took 20 copies, I think.There was one airmail subscription for the Embassy in Tokyo.The Congress for Cultural Freedom had even more than that. They had a list of every one of their correspondents, magazines, etc. Everyone got one. So we were doing well. And he could have, actually, on the English edition, whichhad a much lower cost than the others, he could have broken even. He would never have made anything.But his policy for the French edition, and all, He could never have balanced the budget without a hefty subsidy from someone.((Some colleagues on the editorial staff);The editorial staff was again a fiction. There-vas-noIf you've been following Revolution since, You see each month, each
[104-10217-10221.pdf — page 156]
because he wants to make sure that they havegrows larger.mainly fictitious names, many of them.He's got Carlos. He's supposed to be from Spain.This was a name made up by Chen to replace Valdes. Valdes was actually a person, who is a Spanish scientist, chemist, who works for the CNRS, The Centre Nationale de Research Scientifiques in Paris.He did write the articles on Spain under Gen's supervision with strong retreat rewriting. And his real name is Lopez, I saw him, his first initial is S. Martin Valdes is not his real name. His address... He is the person who he is now wandering about very much at odds, but he is still very well informed about the Spanish situation. I think that if approached in the proper fashion, he might be willing to talk.In his late thirties. I had no trouble talking with him, He is very bitter. (Why) He was expelled from the Proletario group which he had founded, more or less relegated. He isn't really made up for practical politics and matter of pride, etc. but he keeps his hand in. He said he wanted to go see Grippa, but he didn't have much idea of doing anything.He is the one who told me about what was going on in the Spanish group. I could have gotten more. He had no idea that I was pumping him for informations.He seemed to be approachable, willing to talk about the Spanish situation. He can lecture for hours. He is the professorial type. Not for the rough and tumble of practical politics. He was used by Chea. (What caused his rupture with group))I didn't get the exact story. He had Proletario. They put out a four-page news letter, most of which was theory written by Yaldes. But was rewritten by Chen was in contact with the members of the group and at one time Valdes and his wife were actually told that they were going to edit Revolution, Spanish edition, which was going to be publised in Europe. By the way, the Spanish edition does exist, I'm told, in Bogota. They have managed get out a spanish edition. It has nothing to do with Verges. It was branch out by the more committee - Movimiento obreros sindicatos & Campesinos a kind of Fidelista movement,And is getting Chinese subsidy. I think. And which is quite pro-Chinese I think. They had quite a scandal about misappropriation of funds. Apparently the Chinese were giving them fifteen thousand, twenty-five thousand and twenty thousand, and ten thousand of it would arrive, and somewhere along the line on the way to Europe would disappear. One of the persons was expelled.
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(What's relationship of Spanish edition to))-- It has -- taken some of the article --Said to have copies in Brussels. I haven't seen. Brussels is used as a headquarters for MOEC Eastern Europe. People going through either to China coming or toxxx North Vietnam through there. (Can they take stuff without any copyright problems?)) Oh, yes, at first Verge wanted them to be identicalsame as Revolution in France, but and they would say, well,-- they wanted the editorial work done in Paris, which he would finance, and they would finance all of the production side. ut he was unable to pay them for even the editorial thing, so they said they would do all of it in Colombia.He would finance and they would finance all of the production, but theyxware unableThey had a commercial printer, who was going to front for them in Bogota on the same format as the English edition, the old English edition; now the English and the French editi ns are exactly identical. The pocket format. I don't know what they've done. They didn't expect it to last verylong- sort of a prestige operation.r Expected tjree tjree3 or 4 issue to get out, before it would be seized, but that was enough for them. I think what they wanted to do was to establish themselves on an international plane, even nationally, as the leading left partyMOECThey've had a running battle with the Communist Party. They accuse the CP of having given the names of all their liaison people between the tex city and countryside - they are running a guerrilla campaign in certain areas of the country which has become quite serious. And they do have organizational ties with the FALN of Venezuela. / And they are having people trained inNorth Vietnan.They were supposed to. And in China.
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They have some people in Algeria. They may even have persuadedthe Algerians to train some people. I don't know. But they were trying.// Actual editorial policy of the magazine~When I was at magazine, I selected the articles as I chose. selected by me.in the English edition, with very few exceptions, almost everything was-Then there was a hiatus when no French edition. Then I was completelyon my own. While there was a French edition, all I had to do was pick out andtranslate. Basically it was a translation. Then there wasVerges strangely has very little concern about what goes into his magazine.((who now in control))as it seemsHe doesn't write and he doesn't even care terribly much.Manh Lan, former prof of philos. taught at the licee, has connectionsa Lycee in Paris,His true name is with Trotskyist groups. Is now suspected by the French group, the people in Clichy, who make up the Chinese group on the fringe of the Communist Party of being a Trotskyist agent.Certainly is a person who has had extremely close ties and maintainsthey with Trotskyist groups, particularly the so-called Lambert-(Groupe Lambert)(How old) ProbablyMarried to French woman, from whom he was separated.lateHis route from Vietnam to Algeria. He never went to Algeria. He can'tleave France because has no passport. Has been in Fr 12-15 years. French Viet but can stay as long as wantsdefinitelyCame end of the forties or early fifties, in the forties, after the war.hisHe finished Lycee in France and went to Sorbonne, received doctorate.apparentlyphilosophy, sociology. He is quite brilliant. He went into French CommunistI don't think he was in the CP in Vietnam, but he was connected to Communist party./In France have organizational structure and also have prominent permanent people. Think he was one of their permanent people.Was at one time to write a book title-Vietnam depuis Dienbienphu, published by Maspero.on Vietnam, now being translated into English and will be pub in US soon within month or so by Monthly Review Press. This represents the most cogent thought linethat - one could put up for the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam.This is the soft position. It is not the Chinese position. It's an equalco-existence one where they don't talk about socialist revolution. Theydon't even talk about taking power. but coalition, neutralization..He wrote it '63. Has been updated with a new chapter. He does not stillremain within the Com party. Neither expelled nor did he leave but just became inactive. Was a member of the economics commission of the party.Verges when he was in the party was a member colonial commissionHe has much less imagination than Verges, does not have the verve, certainlynone of more than anything else.not the gambling instinct. He is a hack, is very cautious, wants to protect his situation. For quite some time has been going to see Maspero after each issue of his mag comes out to say how good it is, etc, Maspero told Andersson. Andersson told Maspero, that he launched a terrible campaign-against you.Complex-person, numerous-ties.
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even proving his good faith by bringing manuscripts that were originallydestined for Revolution. Thst Verges knew anything about that I seriouslydoubt . This vent on to such an extent that Maspero told Andersson.Andersson said, "why he has launched a terrible campaign against youas a Trotksyite-" Maspero said he didn't believe it, so Anderssonshowed hia a latter that fien asi written In which he demanded that he sever all tieswith Maspero, and so ca.with Trotskyists,He is a complex person. He has numerous ties, WithHe printed two articles by xxsixths British canst Partyx Trotskyistabout the British Communist Party, printed in Revolution,under the party of Joshua Linton, which turned out to be Thomas Kent,written byone of the executive members of the British xxx Trotsky SocialistLabor League, which is an incredible thing. Now he is really consideredby many of these Chinese people to be a Trotskyist, or a Trotsky sympathiser.I don't know about it. He does have very curious ties. I don't what hepresent relationship is to the Vietnamese though he claimed & that hehad received,s a letter from Hanoi from a friend who was ina high positionthere who urged him not to do anything that could be considered anti-Soviet.Ana they said that reallyThis was some tine before - in the spring. / He should be returning home.But he has no intention of returning.((my))quite used toHe cravatedrithelife in the west. He's one of these fellows whegirlparticularly likes running around and having a . . says he's gatheringinformation from one day a girl sard I'm not an encyclopedia, will you stopasking me all these questions?(His relationship with the Chinese),He has some contact with the C6440664 but it is, very slightcontact,one of theHe was the one who finally in a state of panic went to the Cit-Bab-endnewsChinese/agency correspondents in Paris and told him of the financialmands from __ Chinese agencyplight of the magazine. And that's when the xxx told him to prepare abudget. Said they would see what they could do. He told Gactoli and KissCastoll put his foot down. He said tht Verges . . .((Who did he see))* A Mr. Yan. They were at that time Yan and Yang. Yan a heavy set man,  in his forties with various groups. of political people.  / the senior of the two, had contacts, The Embassy aparently didnt want any  because the people in Marseillesand elsewhere used to go to Berne.  direct contacts  They had obviously first made contacts with the Chinese in Berne and then they continued  them in Berne (after French established relations with Chinese) because obviously it wouldn't  look very good to be....