Francesco/who-killed-jfk huggingface dataset:
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# SPATCHINFO: Chief, WEFROM: Chief, KUDESK; Chief, FE, Chief, AFSUBJECT: Chief of Station, LondonKAPCKRichard Thomas GIBSONACTION REQUIRED-REFERENCES: Ref: OFLA 42,70623 MAR 1965PROCESSING1.  Ref forwarded the tapes and a rough transcription of the debriefing session with Subject, which were held on February 17, 18, 19, 23, 1965.2.  In accordance with Headquarters' instructions, these meetings were kept on a don't-call-us-we'll-call-you basis - in fact GIBSON was given no means for calling us. Also in accordance with Headquarters' instructions, we did not pay GIBSON at a constant rate of over $100 per hour. The first ($300) payment to GIRSON was in fact more than we had originally intended to give him as a "binder", but in light of the imminence of his trip to Europe we advanced him that sum to help him to meet his expenses. This nicely coincided with our own time table, since the time he was gone some three weeks - should have provided adequate time for the initial tape to be reviewed and for requirements to be prepared and pouched to the field. At any rate, the total sum given to GIBSON, for his time and a shot at his mailing list, was $700.3.  LCHARVEST may well feel that it has been done out of $700 in COA funds. The information obtained on ChiCom contacts of GIBSON, or on any ChiComs at all, was slight. GIBSON claims not to have had more than very little contact with them, and not to know too much about them. Unless there is hard info to the contrary, we are inclined to believe that GIBSON was telling pretty much the truth in this respect, as indeed seems to have been the case almost all of the time. While this is a bit of a disappointment, in a way, and seems to lessen the immediacy of LCHARVEST interest, it certainly does not appear to eliminate GIBSON's potential worth.4.  The London Station continues to feel that GIBSON has considerable potential as a source of positive intelligence on a wide range of targets - targets that appear to be only lightly covered otherwise, although we are not always able to judge this. A review of this debriefing can only cause one a certain amount of amazement at GIBSON's encyclopedic knowledge of many, many groups, personalities and parties of the far left, literally from America to Zanzibar. We leave it to Headquarters, of course, to evaluate.Distributions:3-Chief, WE2-Chief, KUDESK2-Chief, FE2-Chief, APPOUCH SECURITY VIOLATIONNO FIELD DISTRIBUTIONCLASSIFICATIONPRIORITYSECRET
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# DISPATCHCLASSIFICATIORSECRETTOChief, WEENFOFROMChief of Station, LondonSUBJECTKUDESK/LCHARVESTDebriefing of Richard T. GIBSONACTION REQUIRED-REFERENCESPROCESSINGACTIONMARIED FOR INDEXINGRO ADEXING REQUIREDGAILY QUALIFIEDHEADQUARTERS DESKCAR RUGGE INDEXINGABSTRACTACCOMPLISHED1. Transmitted herewith are the tapes of the 17, 18, 19 and 23 February sessions with GIBSON. Also transmitted is a copy of the Station-prepared transcript of the tapes. The quality of the transcription variess the first session is mostly summarized, the subsequent ones are almost verbatim. Roberta L. HORRELL did the transcripts, and I subsequently reviewed then, filling in comments, names, etc., that HORRELL had missed.2. As rough as these transcripts are, a careful review of them is fairly revealing about GIBSON, and about his knowledge of the topics discussed. Further comment from this end will be contained in an operational dispatch. Right now we are anxious to get the present material into Headquarters' hands for further processing. This is about as far as we can take the material here, due to extreme time limitations. We are retaining a copy of the transcript, however, for further use and future reference.George H. KATZENBACHAttachmentsHerewithDistributionsIf Chief, WE w/att h/v1-00CS COPYCROSS REFERENCE TODATE TYPED9 March 1965DISPATCH SYMBOL AND NUMBEROELA-42,706HEADQUARTERS FILE NUMBER201-306052DATE DISPATCHED15 MARCOSCLASSIFICATIONSECRET201-306052![stamp]
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I was in Rome when there was sun.I had left Rome when the snow arrived.I had a reasonably cordial reception almost everywhere. I got some information. I didn't push too hard. Where I encountered a little bit of suspicion but not very serious, was in Brussels, and actualy I think it was because Giuppu was so busy there. He said if I could have stayed on a few days, but I didn't have time or money to hang around. But I can always go back and see him again.I went from here to Zurich, to Lausanne. The only reason I went to Zurich was simply because Nils Andersson claimed that the Swiss had, you know, had been expelled from Switzerland with the magazine, and he said that they had told him that I was interdit de séjour, that is, can't come into the country.But I have been in the country numerous times since then; but nevertheless I wanted to make certain. I know they know me in the Geneva airport. I went in the Zurich airport, and took the train there, (for Lausanne). And there I didn't stay in a hotel so that the local police would probably not know about it. They probably were aware, but they weren't going to bother, anyway. From Lausanne I went to Milan, Milan to Rome, Rome back to Lausanne to Anderssander again, then Paris, and from Paris to Brussels and back here. Altogether it took three weeks. One could have taken such more time. Actually, it was more establishing of contact. I got someinformation for this thing I am writing for Encounter. In fact I got enough to do what I want to do. (I have to)He wants.I would like to follow up - to go on to Algiers, to talk to some more people down there - apparently they have got a lot more information abut Verges. Or so they told Andersson,
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of course useful if I'm going to play the money market. But for Algeriancurrency it was hard to find a buyer. The opposition has been the principalbuyer of the new currency. / In other words he dared to trigger and the circle whogo out of the country when the change in currency came and who were short ofin hard cash for their people going in and out, were buying this currency.And this had created a more favorable exchange rate. In any case, at thattime the exchange rate was hardly favorable and you had to give a sell order24 hours in advance for the bank to find someone. And that was the thing.The money, he, says that the exact sum in the bank he is not certain,in that account, He knows that Verges's figure was around $75,000.75,000. He thinks that was fairly accurate. That is, 75,000 dollars,In Algerian currency. The money was placed there between the end of Julyor August of 1962 and December of that year. In other words it was justafter independence but during the period of struggle for powerbetween the GPRA and the group. Where he got the moneyfrom as for the second $75,000, Verges said he had another account.He knows (Anderson knows) as he said before, nothing about this. Andfrankly, doesn't believe it existed.However, he does think that Verges has received small amounts of money,where from he doesn't know. The Chinese line is ending. In fact, you cantell from looking at the magazine, the last editorial. He changes-isThe editorial called Compagnon de Route, which means Fellow Traveler,This is just what he didn't want to be called. And it ends up by sayingin French-en a fait des compagnons de route-- we're fellow travelers, we're for a united front of all the liberation  movements with comprehension but without condescension. It's a much more  modest, it's a playing down of their own role. In fact some  of the articles inside the magazine of course are not in line  with the editorial. The editorial doesn't have Verges's style, either.  (Who do you suppose wrote it?))That is very difficult to say. It doesn't to my mind seem to be thestyle of either. I would suspect that it was written by .but for what purposes. Grippa's people told me well, they consideredthis a favorable turn, that they were willing to accept Verges as a fellowtraveler but as nothing more, and they told him that long ago. This isa power struggle. They told him that and what's more they're stillnot certain that they want to have anything to do with him. And apparentlyit's gotten to be the standard--something that you demand-- they demandthat people who come to see Grippa now are - forced to say "we have nothingto do with Verges; if we had something to do with Verges, we make our self-
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I would like to follow For-instance, I would like to go to Algiers.stay some people down there that I could talk to. Apparently they've got a lot more information about Verges and so on. That's what they told Anderson.(Who told Anderson?)Oh, some members of the Algerian Foreign Ministry who I think is in Switzerland. He sees a lot of Algerians because he worked with them during the Algerian war, in various capacity. So he still sees them. He has kept on fairly good terms with them.(You turned up some information in your talks with Anderson)Yes, some. You mean about source of funds. He assures me that the money was not as I thought it was; but it was in the form of Algerian currency.I thought it was in stocks and bonds. My assumption that it was in stocks and bonds was based on his statement that he used to say, "I must go to the bank to tell them to sell."Now apparently what this meant was that they were holding the Algerian currency. You could deposit money in Swiss banks, held as currency at the deposit. I could hold-in pounds and give a sell order. this is
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criticism. You know, we do so, and we won't do this anymore."A number of groups, apparently so. You know, they have created the so-called Spanish Communist Party, Marxist-Leninist, and this was one of the conditions. There are talks going on in France between the Clichy group and the Marseilles group and that was one of Verges again, the conditions of the Marseilles people who were tied up with Kien-nard, that Verges had nothing to do with them. On the other hand there are students, talks between Clichy group and young left-wings, they call themselves the Drapeau Rouge group. It's a very small group anyway. That again was a condition. They put out a magazine, a news letter, called Drapeau Rouge which had been mainly written- it's one single edition- mainly written by Kien. So obviously, the wind has turned very much against him(then). Verges has said, howder, not very long strange things too. To Maspero, ago at a cocktail party, he said, "I don't see why people reproach me for accepting aid from African friends and comrades- African comrades, no longer Chinese comrades. He also says that he admitted that they had made mistakes, that the magazine had been too sectarian, dogmatic,(Verges said this to Maspero?)Yes.Anderson told me that.(When he says African, does he mean Black African or Arab?)This is what we don't know. We have no idea who would waste that much money on him. First of all, who has the money, with which parties does he have connection. The UPC and the Cameroons, that split. The UPC and the Cameroons, a certain amount of money comes from Russia, other money coming from the Chinese, but very small amounts, because no one wants to pour money into this very divided organization. And he had contacts with one wing of it. I can't see them giving him any money. The Salaba, Salawa party - bugere and Niger, they also, according to Anderson, Mamani, who is one of their executives people, who is in Algiers, and who comes to Switzerland quite often, said that he no longer even bothered when he goes to Paris, to see Verges, that he sort of considered it worthless, sort of an adventurer, an opportunist.The thing that was for me a bit frustrating in all of this was that every once in a while -- this that and the other, he has always had this equivoque, this doubt hanging over him. But no one has anything hard and fast about him. You can get- well in the past, what did he do. We know vaguely what he did, but nevertheless, what would you say and so
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his ambition, but his ambition seems to shift from one thing to the other.You don't know exactly what does he want. When he started this magazine,obviously he wanted to play a role in Algeria and Africa. Driven out ofAfrica, he still thinks he's going to get back to Algeria within arelatively brief period of time, six months to a year. And he kept saying.to us, "Oh, yes, we'll be back, we'll be back." He's already prepared alist of people he's going to have thrown in jail, or shot,(laughing) or threaten with firing squads and so forth. That fellthrough, And now, of course, I suppose it must be extremely bitter tohim to see Bitat, who had been his really, the closest, and Zohardin,been his closest associates inside of Algiers, with exception ofFijamia Loubired, but she doesn't have any real weight, politically,Bitat is back in Algiers, has made his peace with Ben Bella, and nowrepresents, he's the General Manager for Volkswagen. (laughing)Anderson's conversation about Verges was based just on Bitat. He said"Well, Bitat is going back. Isuppose Verges will be following behind."He said (the Algerian), "No he won't. We have a file on him,"what he's done."With money, in particular. Apparently they claim that he had been dippinginto the pot for years.(This is the Algerian claim-) Yes, what they told Anderson.I think it's probably true. The funds of the FLN. You see he was, afterall, a lawyer and then became the top lawyer of the FLN in France,that he had access to enormous sums ofthe legal defense team, and thismoney. The Alger-- obviously and underground organization, even as well-structured a one as the Algerian cannot demand very accurate bookkeeping.There were all sorts of very funny jokes about how money was handled, (recado)written on the corner of a newspaper. And so under those circumstances -Verges himself has told some things about this.As for his connection with Khider, Anderson thinks that Khider may havehelped him to get money out of Algeria, but he doesn't think that he gotanything after he left and Khider left Algeria. In other words, he saidas long as he was on the scene and formed part of this vague oppositionto Ben Bella which Khider sought to at least unite on a few issues aroundhimself, he may have received some money. But afterwards, he doesn't thinkhe received any. He has no proof, of course. If he did receive, it wouldhave been small sums given to Janisa Buharee as a token of friendshipmore than anything else. That may have explained her trip to Geneva, whenshe did bring some money.
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That was in March or April, last year.(What is the current financial relationship between Verges and Anderson?)
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FOURTH SESSION-23 February 1965(morning)
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His connection with Khider. Anderson thinks he got no money after he left (Algiers).If any came it would have been small sums given to Geneva as expression of friendship.A and V. V maintains A owes him money because offset press bought originally for Revolution. He was very careless about money. At one point asked A to buy a house. Evidently thought he had enough money for anything. They bought press which turned out to be useless.A. then took it.Ex A said he wanted it. Haggled over price. Then Bessed went to Haussels to way to all the same press to goppa; to play off Zippa and Indersson, because Goppa was also lookung vor an offset. In fact, he did ementually Buy an identists, which is now installed in his place in Brussels. Buy way, Budinsson did pay.payithanght a certain amount. But they didn't decide price definitely.But A. paid a debt to a printers Swiss printer owed by Verges.This printer has sued for 48,000 swiss francs. He has at NMPP (Nouvelle Messagerie de Presse parisienne) blocked Revolution's account. They had 7.50 francs in the account when he blocked it. They had a previous debt with a French printer.Amount of money coming in from sales is very small. Herzu Las not contactict.Could put the magazine out of existence. He has only to demand money andif don't find it in 48 hours could force bankruptcy. But he wouldn't do that unless someone would guaraulle he would get his 48,000. Creditors wait, hoping they will get something.To Guarantee in for amount of money, best way to put Rev, out of business. I could do it myself if I could get the money. I could geta Similar ndgrent and force bankruptey. Actual legal composition of the company found by my lawyer: Nouvelles Edicions dattinatio22 Aug 1963, Verges through a lawyer deposited papers of corporation for Societé Anonyme L'at 16th bureau Paris. capital of 10,000 francs. #8,000 held by Verges and 2000 by Maurice Best Swict.I thought there were at least five but only two.The money actually deposited by a check through the lawyers guild.There is 10,000 somewhere along the line. So Gauguin could get hat much.Company does exist but nobody able to find it.my current legal status- we are fighting for back wages. He denies. How much. Then be silue then it goes before fact-finding agent. says they were "in confidence" weve meomp stint - one look at the magayme disproved thich. This continues to drag on. The lawyer in Paris is not energetic., Bro-in-law question of pripraming rupaid the lawyer 500 franns. He probably thinks that is all he is going to get out of it. Translations, etc. He shows lack of will power.He is an orthodox Communist. He is very honest. But hates scandal.probably thinks "they are out of France" Idont think he has sold out
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of Revolution I can do it in 48 hrs. Lots of people want Rev out of business. QuestionQuestion is where does Verges get the small sums necessary to keep going. Nes paying at least 5 people full-time plus the punded printer. Daldueca printed No. 12. it is a high powered firm. what terms of agreement?13th issue has gone back to offset press, the old printer. I don't know why.I should have spent more time in Paris. I dont want to overplay my hand. The last thing I should have done was recognize and to question people systematically.In Paris only important contact Valdes, Spanish. Gave some info on Span groups. Claims they asked Cuba for money and got turned down. Cubans don't have much money.It's a Great shock to these people to find that Chinese aren't putting in money. It is always someone else, like First Sinet. Verges always indirect. doesn't want to ask anybody for money.probably through Juan Arcocha, press attache, Paris, former sector of Carlos Franqui, editor of Rev. Arcoa is very anti-Communist, hipped on persecution of homosexuals. Not necessarily one himself. Very interestingI did not see Franqui. I don't know where he is.I was getting enough info for personal needs. but didn't want to overdo it.I do need a better story to travel around on.Grippa generally was busy, lot of people around, obviously delegations, there was a catastrophe, from where I don't know. Something had happened. He is rather vague.Shock clash between Grippa and Verges came on question of money. After many months, Verges went to Brussels, talk ended abruptly. V said: went too far, laid down political line, etc. I rejected." But this came only after an exchange over the source of funds. Grippa asked Verges now where he was getting his money, and Verges got huffy. Delegate general said Grippa didn't believe any of the stuff Verges said about me. Predisposed to oppose Verges.Verges will not confide to anyone - even Anderson, where the money comes, Verges and Algerian money. He Did he just say, just tell them, that he got the money from the Chinese? Did he get it from someone in Algeria but he is afraid of disclosing.He wouldn't tell the Chinese at Bern the source of his funds.Verges debts total $30,000? Now he must have cleared away at least the big debt with the original French printer. I said 30,000,000 francs or about $60,000. Castel confirmed that it was about that amount. Castel and I and my wife worked out the estimate. I don't remember the breakdown.Mainly Printing, photographs, paper, rent. We said between 30 and 40...
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promissory notes, and having dhim cantuery und by Jerome nandonand published & l'edition DiminetI have to leave around noon. my little girl at home by herself.Wife working in Tunisian Embassy, 142 a week. She is (isn't) very happy there. Not much money, remember taxes.Anderson: general background- he is Swedish, 32 years old, born in France of French mother and Swedish father. His parents sattled in Lausanne when he was 6 months old. He was raised in Switz. had so little connection with Sweden that when finally had to go into Swedish army had to learn Swedish. Married to woman who is daughter of a prominent Conservative Swiss politician, may be a member of the Parliament. Don't know his name.Husband does not see her parents. He chose Swedish nationality because most convenient, during Algerian war and didn't want to go into army.Swiss nationality would cost both money and military service. Therefore took Swedish. In his youth he was involved with literary and dramatic groups, still keen interest in poetry and drama. He is connected with *Theatre Populaire Romande*. His press servée mainly for material for them. About all he prints. He is forbidden to print any political material but he can print or have printed Chinese literature, which classified as philosophical. He can't print October. That cow painte by guiguin in Montseny.He has never incorporated name *la Cité* -privately owned press and business, means personal risk.He is distributor, mainly, for French books in Switz. for some substantial credits.Most of his things are not political (now) but literary. Not essentially a political operation. Has two employes, a secretary and a Spanish boy who takes care of the press.He for a time very much involved with the FLM, how it happened don't know. He was one of their principal agents in Switz. He represented the support net work, to do tasks FLM couldn't do themsevles.Carrying weapons, money, etc. He operated the Swiss end.Much material was smuggled over Swiss borderat Geneva. With Hensi hellere?Through connection with FLM probably made first personal contact with Verges and with Maspero. He got into publishing, through contacts with Maspero who was printing books. Algerians wanted these books to continue coming out in French. Proposed that print them. He took to enter auguin who agreed to print and that's how he become a publishit.He had no trouble. Swiss police thought his life was in danger. From the 385.